DISGRACELAND - Bonus Episode: Overrated Authors, a Boy Scout Knife, and I Can Get the Cabin

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

This week in the After Party, Jake talks the uncanny fascination with Beat poets, their numerous run-ins with musical icons, this week's DISGRACELAND episode on William S. Burroughs, and of course your emails, texts, DMs, and voicemails. Which icons, living or dead, do you think are overrated? What are your thoughts on Burroughs and his place among the Beats? Drop a line at 617-906-6638, [e-mail], or on socials @disgracelandpod, and come join the After Party.To hear an extended version of the After Party with a story about two Beats' association with another murder, a story about Jake staying in a cabin, and more from the DISGRACELAND community, become a Disgraceland All Access member at disgracelandpod.com/membership. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is exactly right. Double Elvis. Hey, Discos, you can listen to an extended version of this after-party episode by becoming a member of Disgraceland All Access. Just go to disgracelandpod.com slash membership for more details and to sign up. Hey, guys, welcome to Disgraceland, which is, of course, brought to you by Double Elvis. This week, we have a brand new episode on the writer William S. Barrows, that's in our disgrace land feed. And in our all access feed for our members on Patreon and in Apple subscription,

we have episodes on Baskia, Lane Staley, and Hunter S. Thompson. Plus, way more to come. So be sure to make sure that you're all signed up for our all access content, either on Apple podcasts or on Patreon so that you can hear those episodes. And if you haven't yet checked out the Singers Talk podcast, that's a brand new show that we have from Double Elvis in partnership with volume.com, where our host Jason Thomas Gordon talks with some of the most iconic singers about their craft, including a brand new episode this week with the incredible Michael McDonald. So go check that out, the Singers Talk podcast. Hey, discos, need a little more disgrace land in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that

comes after the podcast. Welcome to Disgraceland, the After Party. All right, welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode. This, as you know, is a little thing that we like to call the After party, this is the show, after the show. The party after the show, the bridge to get you from one full episode of disgrace land to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. On this episode, we are talking about our new story on William S. Burrows that hit your feeds this week. And of course, the sources that we used for this story that helped us uncover some wild news about another murder that we did not have the time to include in this actual episode. And of course, your voicemails and texts. And as always, a whole lot of rosy.

All right, discos, let's get. I thought I was on to something secret and dangerous that no other 15-year-old knew about. There it was, right there, out in the open on the bookshelf, in the back of the Harvard Square, Newbury Comics. The very same place that I'd heard the Pixies for the first time. This is a safe space for me. This is the very same place where I purchased Jack Kerouac's on the road. Of course they would sell this book, the one I was sure that no one on the planet had even heard about but me. junkie by William S. Burroughs.

And this was before Kurt Cobain had made Burroughs known more widely to my generation. And before I was conscious enough to know that other rock and roll luminaries like David Bowie and Debbie Harry and Madonna and many, many, many, many more had sought out and received some sort of creative relativism from the beatwriter that transcended generations William S. Burroughs. The book scared me before I even opened it. I knew it was about heroin, of course, or more to the point. I knew it was about a person's experiences while addicted to heroin. I was afraid the book was going to make me want to try heroin.

It didn't. If anything, it did the opposite. I didn't love the book. In fact, I'm not sure I liked it at all. It wasn't enjoyable to read. To this day, I can't really remember much of it. And what I do remember, I'm pretty sure I might be confusing with Burroughs' other book, Naked Lunch. William S. Burroughs was considered one of the beat writers, and he certainly was, but in retrospect, you know, that label doesn't seem entirely accurate. Sure, Burroughs ran with and worked with within a circle, I should say, for a time, within that beat circle. But zoomed out now with the benefit of historical context, William S. Burroughs seems like some weird Midwest type of beat mascot. And that's to say nothing negative about the mid-

West, it's more about him and who he was. Now, on the other hand, Burroughs lived the life that he wrote about. His addictions defined him, even more than his transgressions, which is kind of saying the same thing, but not when you're talking about murder or manslaughter as the transgressions go. Is it only manslaughter when you shoot your wife in the head on accident? Not purely by accident, but when playing a game of William Tell, the risk is so monumentally fucking stupid, that it seems like there should be a step up from manslaughter, some charge greater than manslaughter that says, this wasn't purely an accident, and you didn't really intend on

killing your wife, but you did know she could very easily die from your stupidity. So you're not getting the chair, but you are getting 25 to life. Something like that. William S. Burroughs got neither. He got off completely pretty much, and the fact that he killed his wife isn't even in the first half of his Wikipedia, but his addiction is. And that addiction, like I mentioned, defines his creative output, which now as an adult is kind of gross to me. But why was I so drawn to it as a teenager? Is it just the moth to the dangerous flame thing? Is it that simple? The attraction to the illicit? It sounds so stupid when I say it out loud, so pointless. Then again, William S. Burroughs was a degenerate junkie and he wrote his truth and the fact that he actually got it all down on the page with

of course the help of his more productive career-minded and generous friends jack carrowack and alan ginsberg the fact that borrows wrote anything at all something that many clear-minded people try to do and never succeed at never mind those with debilitating drug addictions the fact that boroughs wrote anything at all says something i guess but what does it say what does it say about me who was enamored of the myth of William S. Burroughs when I was 15. Was I just rewarding the effort? I don't think so. Was this what Kurt Cobain and the rest of them were drawn to as well with Burroughs? Or was it the actual writing

of William S. Burroughs? Art is subjective, so it's hard for anyone to know. But Burroughs is writing it doesn't breathe the same air as Jack Kerouac's novels or Allen Ginsberg's poetry, not to me anyway. And there are worse things, I guess, to be into as a 15-year-old than Junkie on the Bubble Beat writers. But then again, I wasn't really into it. In retrospect, I was just trying on a shirt. I thought it looked good on the rack, but it turns out it didn't fit well,

or at least not as well as some others that were similar. Junkie, the book that I'm talking about, was heavily censored when it was first published in the 1950s. When it was republished in the late 70s, it was published in its original form. That's the edition that I read, the uncensored version. Now, censorship in any form is ridiculous. There's a time and place for everything, sure, and not every child should be exposed to everything. That's not what I'm saying.

But the bookshelf at the Harvard Square Newbury comic sometime in the early 90s seems as good a place as any to fuck around and find out if junkie authors are your thing or not. Turns out for me, they weren't. I don't really think they're anybody's thing. I think William S. Barrows is overrated. There, I said it. I think Kurt Cobain, David Bowie, the rest of them, they were chasing an image, a vibe, a myth.

Some shine off of a living icon who'd miraculously outlived his shelf life. Which icons, living or dead, do you think, are overrated? It can be anyone, writers, musicians, filmmakers, there are no sacred cows. William S. Barrows, Beyonce, Quentin Tarantino, Jack White, who which giant artist comes out with something new, the internet freaks out and you sit there going, I just don't get it. 617-906-66-6638 to let me know via voicemail or text. Which icons from the world of art, entertainment, history, true crime, whatever do you think are overrated?

I'll be back in a flash. All right, we are back. Let's talk for a minute here about the sources that we used for this week's episode on William S. Burroughs. If you're a disco, you know or you like to know. That's the thing, right? I know you guys dive deep. You want to know where I'm getting the information for these episodes. This is the part of the bonus episode where we fill you in on these sources.

All right. Of course, there are books that William S. Burroughs himself wrote, classics of the so-called beat generation that I was mentioning before, these classics being junkie and naked lunch, right? Those are the two borrower's books. You're going to want to read those if you're curious about this guy's writing. Or at least sample them, okay? I'm not recommending these books after I just said the guy was overrated, but you get what I'm saying.

These are the two sort of pillars of William S. Burroughs' creative output. There's also a collection of his letters, a book called The Letters of William S. Burroughs, 1945 to 1959, which, as you know, if you've heard this episode that we just did, these letters were super helpful to get inside Burroughs' head for our editorial POV, because a lot of it is set during this time. All right, there are two primary biographies that we used for our research. The first being, Call Me Burrows, A Life by Barry Miles, and the second being Gentleman Junkie, the Life and Legacy of William S. Burroughs by Graham Cavaney.

I hope I'm pronouncing that the correct way. Cavany, C-A-V-N-E-Y. These books helped us uncover all kinds of wild stories about how William S. Burroughs left his wife and child behind to go hunt for ayahuasca in the jungle. Class dad moved there about how Burroughs fought the Massachusetts Supreme Court. when his novel naked lunch was on trial for obscenity. And of course, all about how long before William S. Burroughs was the literary hero that he became

known as he fatally shot his wife, Joan Vomer, in Mexico. All right, we also did a lot of searching across the internet to help us find other stuff that wasn't necessarily in those books, whether other information that wasn't necessarily in those books, whether it's the Kurt Cobain interview that we referenced at the top of the episode. Sometimes these stories that come to light after those biographies, were published. Perhaps the stories don't make them into the books for some reason.

Sometimes we need stuff to help fill out our own editorial point of view. So, of course, you know, we hit up the articles on the internet, whatever interviews we can find, videos with people, et cetera. One of those that we found online was told from Al Jurgensen of the great industrial group ministry, who I got to say, there's an Al Jorgensen episode coming for disgrace. At some point, I don't know, maybe it'll be an all-access thing. There are just so many fucking crazy stories about Al from his ministry days. And he's such an unreliable narrator that it kind of makes it even more interesting to try and figure out.

Speaking of, according to Al Jurgensen, he paid a visit to William S. Burroughs at Burroughs's place out in Lawrence, Kansas. At this time, I believe this is in the early 90s, at this time William S. Burroughs is 80 years old. But despite his age, he's still filling himself up with heroin and he's shooting heroin with Al Jurgensen. And apparently, you know, the interesting thing here is he's using all this antiquated gear to shoot up. This huge, he's got this huge utility belt of syringes and all kinds of stuff you would use in the 1950s to do heroin he's still using in the 90s. And as they're, you know, they're getting high. The story goes, William S. Burroughs is opening a letter from President Bill Clinton inviting Burroughs to come speak at the White House. nuts, just nuts.

I want to find out if this is true. This is according to Al Jurgensen, and again, unreliable narrator. But also according to Jurgensen, Burroughs, when he's opening the letter and reading it, he has no idea who Bill Clinton is. You know, who the president is, who's in Congress, you know, what teams in the Super Bowl that year,

whatever's going on in the news overseas, at home. William S. Burroughs was clueless to it all, just living out his own secluded life out there in Kansas being visited by 90s rock stars. Just wild. Do you believe this story? Let me know. 617-906-66-3-8.

A couple of you have already hit me up on Instagram, a couple of you from Kansas, who are old enough to have had run-ins with William S. Burroughs back in the day. These are fascinating. Call me, though. I got the DMs, but hit me up 617-906-66-3-8. If you're listening, you know who you are.

Hit me up, leave me a voicemail or send me a text. I'll read them here. in the afterparty, 6179066638. Also, of course, all you guys, as I just mentioned in the previous block, I want to hear which icons from the world of arts, entertainment, history, etc., which icons do you think are overrated? Let me know. 617-90666638.

You can send me a text or you can leave me a voicemail, just like this listener from the 585. What up, Jake? This is Jen from the... I'm a long-time listener. I love your show. So well-produced. You do such a great job.

Y'all do. And I just recently listened to the Adrian Shelley episode, which I, she's obscure in a way that makes me love you even more than I thought I already did. So thank you so much. I watched the documentary that was about her and, you know, just her so, just the harrowing demise that she had. And it was brilliant. And your podcast is great.

And you did a good job with the content and with her legacy and everything. And it was just really, really moving and did a great job. And you always do. So anyway, I finally wanted to reach out and just say, what up? And good job. And thank you so much for all the wonderful content. And I just love nerding out on all of the, you know, the movies and the music and everything. So thanks for what you do.

I hope you're doing well. Rockawola. Bye. Jen, you were the best. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you letting me and the team know. Stoked you were into that episode. Thank you.

Let's check out this voicemail from the 714. Yo, 714. Yeah, just to be clear, I wasn't actually saying that Garth Brooks is a serial killer. I was putting forth a theory by Tom Seguera. I heard from Tom Secura, by the way, on the old Instagram. after we released that episode. We did a little real about it as well, and he shared it, which I thought was pretty cool.

And he thanked us for doing the episode, which was awesome. But I asked you guys in the last after party, which other musicians, artists, and this is done in jest, it was a joke, which other artist you think could possibly have the persona to be a serial killer?

Who is it? Is it Kendrick Lamar? I don't think so. But some people are saying so right now. Not me. I'm not one of them. Let me know. 617-906-66-6638.

310 comes in with this voicemail. Hey, this is Yuri from just west of the 405. I have been a Garthbrook's fan since I was probably 14 years old when his first two albums came out. And I loved the show. I thought it was great. I had never heard this before. I knew that it was, you know, based off of something else,

but I still thought I had to listen to it all the way through to the end, and I loved how you took it all the way to the end until you told the story of where it came from. So excellent job. I really enjoyed it. And, you know, as far as another person who could be a serial killer, I'm going to have to go with Wayne Newton. All right. Think about this.

He keeps a low profile, and he lives in the desert. You never see the man leave Vegas. Why? Because bodies don't deteriorate in the desert. That's it. Thanks, man. Have a good one. 310.

I appreciate the voicemail. I'm a little scared of your knowledge of what bodies do and don't do in the desert in the desert. So, you know, lose my number, 310. No, I'm kidding. Wayne Newton. Dude, have you ever seen pictures of Wayne Newton when he was a young artist? Wow. just amazing.

I have no words. I have no words. Anyways, I'm glad the Garth Brooks fans, Doug, the little piss we took out of Garth Brooks there in that episode. Thank you so much. Let's do one more here before this topic goes dry. This one from the 604.

Hey, Jake, it's a serial killer. Oh, fucking creepy bullshit, pretentious. Maddie die here. He's a total serial killer. Okay. All right, 604. Morris, he is a serial killer, you know? it's not something that strikes me as completely unbelievable. And yes, Marcy is completely pretentious.

And I spent a good part of my youth, probably when I was reading Junkie by William S. Burroughs, hating on Marcy. But the fact of the matter is, I fucking love Marcy. I love his music. I love his solo music. I love the Smiths. I love how pretentious it is. It's just, I don't know, man. I don't know. Give it another shot. That's all I'll say. That's all I'll say, 604. Think of it. And now, as I listen to it, 604, I'm going to be listening to it from Morrissey's point of view as a serial killer. And I guarantee you, it's going to make me like it even more. All right, 617-90666-36-3, voicemail and text. I did a lot of voicemails. Let's do some texts here. This one from the 303. Hey, maybe Garth Brooks is not a serial killer. Maybe one of his road crew is. Got to consider all the

possibilities. Yes, we do 303. That seems like an obvious one, one that would have completely fucked up our story, which is why we did not consider it. The 530 writes, and hey, regarding serial killer music artists, here are a few. Nick Cave, Britney Spears, Henry Rollins, and Aaron Neville. Okay, I'm going to go through these first impressions. Nick Cave, no way. Nick Cave is a god-fearing man in his bones, I believe that. Britney Spears, okay, okay, you know, I'm pausing, and I'm thinking about Britney Spears being a serial killer. And I just don't think the, what is it? I'll put it nicely.

I don't think the hard drive is there, if you know what I'm saying. Henry Rollins, too obvious. And I believe Rollins is a good guy at heart. Aaron Neville, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with Aaron Neville. So write me back 530 and let me know. Make the case that Aaron Neville is a serial killer. Lots of people, lots of people, lots of people writing in to say that Marilynne Manson is a serial killer. And you know, it's a bit too on the nose. If you're a serial killer, would you

really go through life parading around as Marilyn Manson? But then again, maybe you just have insane hubris, and that's why you go around through life parading yourself as Marilyn Manson. I don't know. You might be on to something. 919 writes in, hey, just listen to the Steve McQueen episode, and I agree that he is at the pinnacle of cool. One I would put ahead and before him would have to be Humphrey Bogar. Cool before Cool was the word. I love that. I love that take. It says, not sure if McQueen was influenced by Bogies laid back, give a fuck tough persona, but can't argue that they both had that presence in a fuck you. It's my world. You're in it. Mindset. Wow. Great take 919. I absolutely 100% believe that McQueen was influenced by Bogart,

especially when it comes to cool. And I love what you say there. Cool before we had a word for it. I get into this, that concept actually in our Miles Davis episodes. And I get into it in some depth. So you might want to check those out if you haven't already because it really deals with the birth of cool, so to speak. All right, I'm going to take a quick break. I'll be back in a flash. All right, everybody, we are back, and I got to say that we are missing you.

We're missing you like Mick Jagger, missed Keith Richards back in the late 70s in the early 80s. We're missing you like Frank Sinatra, missed Ava Gardner. We're missing you like Jake Gyllenhaal, Mrs. Taylor, okay, maybe not that last one. Listen, we're missing you over in the All Access members feed, Okay? That is where our All-Axcess members are hearing all about this other wild story about William Sboros and his involvement and yet another murder.

This one, seven years before the murder of his wife. If you're a disco, you know that where you have to go to get the other information, the extra information, is the All-Axcess Club content. Okay? You're going to hear about it too, right here, right here, right here in this After Party bonus episode. You just get ahead to disgracelandpod.com slash membership and sign up. It's quick. It's easy. It's just five bucks a month or even cheaper than that. If you sign up for an annual membership, okay?

For an annual membership, you're going to get a discount. You can choose to sign up via Apple Podcasts or Patreon. Get exclusive weekly bonus content like these extended after parties that I was just mentioning. You get one exclusive, brand new, fully scripted episode of Disgraceland every single month, like the episodes on Baskiat, Lane Staley of Allison Chains that are waiting for you right now, along with the episode on Chris Cornell. It's going to drop in a couple weeks. You get to listen to every episode of Disgraceland.

That's 174 episodes and counting ad-free. And if you choose the Patreon option, you can join our always-on chat with me and your fellow discos talking about disgraceland episodes. We're talking about music. We're talking about movies. We're talking about books. I'm about to hop in there today.

I've been on a reading tear lately. Okay? And I want to talk to you about these books that I'm reading. I want to get some insight from you on what books you're reading and you recommend. And I get a couple I want to recommend as well. well. So don't miss out any longer on all the great bonus content that we got for you with so much more to come every single week. Discracelandpod.com slash membership. Go check it out and then get in here

and party with us. All right. Let's recap, shall we? Number one, there is more after party to listen to right now. All you got to do is go to disgracelampod.com slash membership and sign up to become an all-access member. But if that ain't your bag, then number two, right now in your feed this week's brand new episode on William S. Burroughs. Number three, coming tomorrow, a rewind episode on Chet Baker. Number four, my number is 617-9066636338. Call me on the telephone or text me. Remember, though, that no one cares about the music

that you love more than you do, and well, that is a disgrace. And now for my moment of bliss and honor this week's episode on William S. Burroughs, me reading you, the Kansas City, Kansas phone book from 1953. Albertson, William, 9811, East 59th Terrace, 7154. Albin, Albert, 8712E 79th, 788. Aldridge, DW, E-68, Terrace, 799. Alex, Jason, 10320E63, 7625.

Alexander, Atwood, 6801, Maple, 85190. Alexander, Joe, Alberton, William, Z94, 1,2, 59, Terrace, 775, 15101 at east, 625, 8771, 71775, Frank, 951 Joe, 65th Talking and start mixing.