DISGRACELAND - Bonus Episode: Problematic Artists, and Did Life Peak in the 90s?

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

This week in the After Party, Jake wrestles with the works of problematic genius Alfred Hitchcock and gets your take the dilemma presented by such artists. And as we prepare for next week's episode on the unique artistry of the oft-maligned Lana Del Rey, we want to know: Which entertainers do you think have been unfairly treated by the media? Which artists do you think get a bum rap from the press and from critics? Let Jake know at 617-906-6638, [e-mail], or on socials @disgracelandpod.To hear an extended version of the After Party and to hear more from the DISGRACELAND community, become a Disgraceland All Access member at disgracelandpod.com/membership.Visit www.disgracelandpod.com/merch to see the latest Disgraceland merch!Sign up for our newsletter and get the inside dirt on events, merch and other awesomeness - GET THE NEWSLETTERFollow Jake and DISGRACELAND:InstagramYouTubeX (formerly Twitter) Facebook Fan Group To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is exactly right. Double Elvis. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark. When like young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever. My first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do? Rather be disappointed in. Do that.

David O'Yellowo. I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or you just go straight for the guts. Dennis Leary, Gaten Matarazzo from Stranger Things, Tana Monjou, Camilla Morone, Carrie Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes a suspect is found guilty before a verdict is ever read in court.

On the Wicked Words podcast, I talk with the writers who dig deep into the cases that changed history, including Marsha Clark, who went from prosecuting one of the most famous murder cases to writing crime fiction. It doesn't matter that you didn't take part in the murder. If you were at the scene at all, you're guilty of murder. Every week, the real story is revealed. Join us every Monday for new episodes of Wicked Words. Listen to Wicked Words on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, Discos, need a little more disgrace land in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to Disgraceland, the after party. Welcome to the disgrace land bonus episode. A little thing we'd like to call the after party. This is the show after the show, the party after the party,

the bridge to get you from one full episode of disgrace land to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. On this bonus episode, we are talking about this week's subject of the disgrace land full episode, Alfred Hitchcock, talking about problematic artists. and autores cancel culture. I hate that term, but hey, the 1990s as peak life.

That's another point of discussion. At least if we're talking music and amazing movies released during that decade. And of course, we're diving into your voicemails, texts, and more. And as always, a whole lot of rosy. All right, discos, let's get into it. In 1996, Entertainment Weekly ranked Alfred Hitchcock

number one in their list of the greatest directors of all time. It's a fascinating list, really. One where Stephen Spielberg does not even crack the top 10. Behind Hitchcock in slots two to 10, we have Orson Wells, John Ford, Howard Hawks, Martin Scorsese, Akira Kurosawa, Buster Keaton, Ingmer Bergman, Frank Capra, Federico Fulini, at number 10, and then at number 11, Mr. Steven Spielberg. The reason they have Hitchcock at number one is a surprising one. It has less to do with the innovative style of Hitchcock created. and popularized in more to do with his persona as being what they call the quote unquote quintessential brand director. Interesting phrase there given the time, 1996. A director who in name and likeness

was iconic. I assume that's what they mean by quintessential brand director. A director who in their estimation was everywhere. Beyond Hitchcock's incredible films, which were not just creatively genius, but also they were huge commercial successes. Hitchcock, they mentioned, was rewarded for his appeal with a TV show that we know of called Alfred Hitchcock Presents. And I didn't know this. There was an actual magazine as well called the Alfred Hitchcock Mystery Magazine. So Hitchcock was everywhere during his reign. And it seems that because of that sort of like immediate, big commercial, big iconic status that they're granting him number one slot on the list. Another element entertainment weekly credits Hitchcock with for his success, though, and I agree with them totally on this.

this point is his point of view. Hitchcock was one of the first so-called autour directors, a phrase that critics didn't really throw around until the 1950s and the 60s when Hitchcock was really at peak Hitchcock. Not only is Hitchcock's point of view overt in his filmmaking, of course, but even comparatively to some of the more studio assembly line fare that was being pumped out at the time, as far as films were concerned, from comparatively nameless and faceless directors, Hitchcock's point of view was a unique and compelling one, and it's right there on the screen for all of us to see. As we detailed in this week's full episode on Alfred Hitchcock,

Hitchcock was the original true crime fan. He followed the crimes of the day very closely, and they obviously influenced him. The ghoulish nature of these events was formative for him, heavily influenced this filmmaking. And the thing that I think is super interesting about Hitchcock myself is that everyone, everyone that the viewer, came in contact with on screen could be guilty. Now, nowhere in his films is this more impactful than

in what I think is his best film, Rear Window. In Rear Window, not only does the director make us wonder about the guilt of the seemingly innocent people on the screen, he makes dirty little voyeurs out of all of us as well, case in point, Ms. Torso. So this, I say this just to point out how unique the guy's point of view was at the time. You know, if we saw a movie like this now, we wouldn't be shock, but we've got like 50 plus years of filmmaking to create this context that is no longer shocking. But trust me, back when rear window came out, it was a unique story. It was a unique storytelling device, the way that they painted this picture out the window of Jimmy Stewart's character. On screen, Hitchcock made monsters of ordinary people and off screen. We know Hitchcock's

success made a monster out of him personally, as detailed by his treatment of Tippy Hedron in this week's full episode of disgrace land. Now, none of Hitchcock's behavior toward Hedron is considered in Entertainment Weekly's ranking of Hitch in the number one slot. I'm not sure it should be, as I'm not sure that it was well known back in 1996 at the time of this ranking. Then again, I'm pretty sure that any serious history film buff at the time would have had some understanding of the director's behavior, but I can't say one way or another. The question is, where would Entertainment Weekly rank Alfred Hitchcock today, knowing all that we now know? I think we can safely say that Alfred Hitchcock wouldn't even sniff the top five.

And that's because the Entertainment Weekly List is more about perception and vibes than it is talent. It's first and foremost about Hitchcock's legacy as a personality, as a quote-unquote quintessential brand director, which is understandable. This is Entertainment Magazine, not a scholarly study of film. perception and vibes are Entertainment Weekly's bread and butter. So I'm not going to damn a fish for liking water. Today's cover, just for reference of Entertainment Weekly, is a not-so-great photo of Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez in the news on their recent divorce filing. So Entertainment Weekly today, they're not writing about the directorial prowess Affleck used for the town in

relation to the friends of Eddie Coil, nor is it a study of the cultural significance of Jenny from the Block's age-defying backside. Wait, I'm getting off track. You get my point. It's entertainment weekly perception and vibes, okay? That's kind of what the magazine's all about. And even going back to 1996 when they make this ranking of directors and they put Hitchcock in the number one spot, we've always cared about perception and vibes as a culture that glorifies entertainers. But somewhere over the last decade, for better or worse, I believe we started caring more about perception and vibes than objectifiable facts. If Entertainment Weekly or any other mainstream entertainment outlet wants to lower Alfred Hitchcock,

in its estimation of who the greatest directors of all time are, then that is their business. But it doesn't change the fact that people will forever watch Alfred Hitchcock's movies. His movies are just too damn good. Now, listen, I know this. I know this because you told me so. I asked you guys last week in preparation of this episode, and you called in and texted me and gave me your feedback

just as you did on Instagram and the socials. Alfred Hitchcock, like Woody Allen, made some of the greatest movies of all time in the world will forever watch their films. Again, I know this because you guys told me so. And I would say the same thing for lesser directors as well. For someone like Brett Ratner, who didn't make great films on the same level with Alfred Hitchcock and Woody Allen. But he made Rush Hour, for God's sake.

And 10 years from now, is anyone going to really think about Brett Ratner's transgressions when they're debating whether or not to pull up Rush Hour on Hulu or Netflix or whatever? They're not. They're just going to be psyched about Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan. You know, Brett Ratner might not get invited to whatever bullshit Hollywood. events are going on, but these movies are going to remain. Now, is this good or bad? That's the question. Is watching a Hitchcock movie make me a bad person? Is watching a Brett Ratner movie make me a bad person? When I watched Rush Hour with my six-year-old a couple weeks ago, and I didn't explain to him the Me Too movement, does that make me a bad person? I don't think it does. I know I'm a good person.

I know it doesn't make me a bad person. But back to the vibes, okay? Another piece of feedback from you guys, something that I heard expressed in one way or another over and over again is that the choice to with an artist whose behavior was particularly monstrous is a personal one. And I totally get that. If you somehow came in contact with Brett Ratner back in the 90s, then I'm sure you have a different view on Rush Hour than most people do. Okay? I can't tell you how long it took me to listen to Rick James and actually enjoy his music again after researching the Rick James episode of disgrace. And I'm learning in shocking detail how much he abused women. And I don't think I'll ever listen to spade coolly again.

And I can list a dozen other examples similar to this. But, but, but there's always a but. Mary Jane from Rick James comes on now after the shock is worn off. You know, my head was fully in this three years ago into this Rick James subject three years ago. And I'm turning Mary Jane up, okay? I'm not thinking about Rick James, the kidnapping, crack pike burning monster at all. Okay?

I think of nothing. the music just floods through me. It makes me dance. It makes me smile. It makes me goofy. Okay? It's just the same thing when I'm watching

Alfred Hitchcock's rear window. Shit, I'm not just entertained by rear window. I want to live in that apartment complex, in that city, at that time, in that moment. That's how powerfully compelling that piece of art is that Alfred Hitchcock created. The romance is palpable, okay? To say nothing of the suspense,

which is also just amazing. And my heart broke for Tippy Headroom when we were putting together this Alfred Hitchcock episode. For real. But that, for whatever reason, whether it's selfish, or whether it's superficial,

just vibes, or whether it makes me a bad person by some people's estimation. The art, in most cases for me, especially the better that the art is, the more compelling that it is, and genius that it can be, the more easily I can then objectify

and engage with it despite the behavior of the artist. That's just me. If you feel differently, that's fine. But like I said earlier, the majority of you are thinking the same way that I am. Now, listen, okay? I'm not an absolutist. Like everyone out there, I'm hypocritical in some ways.

And here's how. It gets really interesting for me is when I think about rationalization as it relates to this topic. Okay? On the one hand, I don't rationalize what Alfred Hitchcock did, not one bit. So I don't do that so that I can feel good about what. watching his films. Like I said, I can just objectify it. But when it comes to Woody Allen, when it comes to Ryan Adams, when it comes to Aziz Ansari, when it comes to Michael Jackson, I am one rationalizing motherfucker, in part because I've done a considerable amount of research

into each of the allegations against all these artists, just like I did with Hitchcock. Okay? And unlike Hitchcock, and unlike Harvey Weinstein, and unlike Bill Cosby, from what I've learned, in my estimation, the allegations against the guys I mentioned earlier, Woody Allen, Ryan Adams, Aziz, Michael Jackson, they're less solid, or they're at least more gray, okay? They're less compelling. In some cases, way less, all right? All right, perhaps maybe, I don't know, I don't know if I have the stomach for it, but perhaps maybe I'll do a full episode where I can look at all the actual facts laid out

in the cases against each of these artists that I've mentioned, the sort of ones that seem to be a little bit on the fence. It's too complicated to litigate here, to fully dive into here, and I don't want to derail this bonus episode. but I do want to say that I appreciate you guys as listeners. This is a complicated conversation to have. It's highly nuanced. It's emotional.

Some of you are victims of abuse. Most of us know victims of abuse. So this is a personal issue too. And I think that the discourse we've been able to have around it, both online and public and privately over voicemail and text, has been mostly civil and mature and nuanced in and of itself. And all these things are usually lacking when it comes to this topic, especially as it relates to the online discourse.

So I'm proud of you guys as listeners and excited to dive into your voicemails and text on this topic in just a minute. But first, we need to quickly talk about another controversial subject, or I should say another controversial figure, another controversial artist, Lana Del Rey, okay? She's the next full episode of Disgraceland. Okay, that's coming up next in your feed here. So when you're listening to Lana Del Rey, be three. thinking about the way she was painted by the press and why she was painted that way.

And specifically think about how she was treated. And I want to know from you guys, which entertainers do you think have been unfairly treated by the media? Which artist do you think of a bum rap from the press? And specifically, I wanted about artists, rock stars, actors, actresses, even athletes that you love, that you think you're getting repeatedly torched unfairly by the press, by the media, by the critics. All right.

That's for Lada Del Rey. That's for the Lana Del Rey episode. It's coming up next in Disgraceland. I'm going to take a quick break. We'll be back in a flash with your calls and your texts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games.

You get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark. When like young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever, my first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do? Rather be disappointed in. Do that. Dennis Leary.

I wake up and I'm hitting him in the head with a water bomb. And Bruce Jenner is on the aisle in a karate stance like he's about to attack me. They're like, making karate noises. And his entire the Kardashian family over there, everybody's going, and the air marshal is trying to grab my arms and screaming. And I immediately know that I've been asleep walking. David O'Yellowo. I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction

or you just go straight for the guts. Guy Branham. So anyway, Nicole Kimman broke up with Keith Thurban. Being half of a country couple was always a hat she was going to wear, not like a life she was going to lead. Oh, interesting. I like that. Did you practice that on your way over? Gaten Matarazzo from Stranger Things.

Tena Monsu. Camilla Morone, Carrie Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, host of the Wicked Words Podcast. Each week I sit down with the true crime writers behind some of the most compelling true crime stories and discuss their years spent investigating and why it still matters. He sees his father coming out of the woods with his hands over his face, and he knows something happened. His father just grabs him and says she's gone. She's gone.

These are the cases that leave survivors, families, and the journalists who cover them changed forever. Working in national television, it'll push you to your limits, and you'll end up doing things you never thought you do. You know, you look back at it and you're like, I can't believe that really happened. Join me and step inside the investigation. New episodes drop every Monday on the exactly right network. Listen to Wicked Words on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You guys know the number 617-906-66-36-3-8 to leave me a voicemail or to send me a text. Let's hear from the 904.

Hey, Jake, it's Barry from the 904. Man, I've been really thinking about your question from last week about the artist and the art. And how do you separate the artist from the art? And, you know, this morning my kids were watching Michael Jackson videos on YouTube. And I love Michael Jackson. And I noticed in the comments on Instagram you had mentioned. someone had mentioned Michael Jackson or you had mentioned Michael Jackson.

That kind of being a template or, you know, an example, if you were, it's really tough, you know, someone who is beloved, you know, from your childhood, that you have to separate from, you know, from possibly despicable things they did

or, you know, definitely despicable things they did like Bill Cosby. It's tough, but like you said, I mean, perhaps there has to be some kind of dividing one between the art and the artist. But then again, when does it become so despicable that you just can't, you know, like your Robert Kellys or your Sean Combs or those folks in the world, or you Michael Jackson's. It's tough.

So I, too, I'm a fan of Annie Hall and some of the things that Woody Allen has done. You know, it's just despicable. I mean, so, you know, it's tough. Separate the art from the artist and try to move on from that, I guess. You know, it's kind of personalized, you know, what you can and cannot deal with. Or what you can or cannot accept from what you believe from what was alleged. So I don't know. It's tough for Jake.

I'm kind of working with you out. I'm doing this voice more, apparently. Anyway, just looking forward to the Hitchcock episode. I know he was horrible to his, uh, his, uh, uh, female stars, you know, but it's not going to keep me from watching the birds. Fuck, no. So here's what it is. Love you.

Later. 904, I hear you loud and clear. It is complicated. I appreciate you weighing in here. Thank you for the call. All right, same subject. This is from Elie Ordez from the 909 on the Hitchcock Dilemma. Jake, Elie Ordez here from the 909.

So I wanted to weigh him a quick on. my whole dilemma with Alfred Hitchcock. He is absolutely my favorite director ever. I did a whole ass report about him when I was in high school. And growing up now, revisiting him then, it's kind of odd because I'm still out of standstill with, well, he was bad to women, all that Tippy Hardin dilemma was pretty bad. And, yeah, like, I can't just ignore it being a woman myself. But at the same time, I have to say the art that was put behind a lot of these movies, especially a movie like Rebecca, which has been pretty forgotten about, as well as asylum for murder.

There's been a lot of art put into these movies that you just haven't seen since. A lot of people miss that, and I understand. I really do. I'm not going to dismiss the bullshit. But I am saying that where art defines. the creator might lie with the audience and how they feel about that creator, in my case, alpha Hitchcock. When I was a teenager, I pretty much rented a lot of this movies from my local blockbuster

or Hollywood video or my local library. So I was very in touch with the stories and the styles in which these stories were brought and how documentaries on the man himself and how he actually brought. to light and everything and that's where I was at with it was I was appreciating the art more than I was appreciating the creator as a person if that makes sense anyway so that's my take and it's probably a hot one or a dumb one I'm up to the people not me I'm just saying from how I feel about it all and yeah so that's my take on that guy as far as Quentin Tarantino life imitates heart with that one he's great he's fine but

the overhithe and the pretentious attitudes people have with him kind of make me feel like, oh, this guy's kind of a boner kill, actually. Anyway, so yeah, thanks for the show, man. And we're listening to this whole email. Thanks, bye. Thanks for the call, Ellie.

I agree with your larger point. Hitchcock as an artist was one of a kind, and I hear you on the subjectivity of how we engage with the artist. I've never seen Rebecca. I'm drawing a total blank on this film. It has, I have no recall at all. I need to see it.

Also, I love the shout out to Blockbuster, but I really love the Hollywood video reference. Speaking of video stories, I can't go there with you on Tarantino. I'm ride or die with that dude as a filmmaker. Speaking of which, recently heard from Roger Avery, well, not recently, about six months ago,

Roger, of course, wrote part of Pulp Fiction with Quentin Tarantino and directed rules of attraction. some of you who follow us on Instagram know about the Roger Avery homage, the tribute that we paid to him in relation to our Brian Jones episode. If you don't know what I'm talking about

and you love the movie Rules of Attraction and you heard our Brian Jones episode from our archive, I highly encourage you to head over to At Disgraceland Pot on Instagram. Just go into the Reels section there and look about two or three reels back or actually, no, it's on the grid.

and you can see how we paid homage to rules of attraction by using the wildlife of Brian Jones. Okay, let's do some more voicemails. Here is Katie from the 802. Hey, this is Katie calling from the 802. You asked for some calls about movies that we still watch, directors, actors, whoever, who we know did terrible things, but we can't go without them. And the first person who comes to mind from me, is a singer and an actor. and that's Bean Crosby.

Ever since I was a kid, I've been obsessed with Christmas carols. I've loved them. I direct an a cappella group that we started out as a Christmas caroling group. And White Christmas is always one of my favorite carols and one of my favorite movies. And Bean Crosby and David Bowie's little drummer boy

will always be one of my favorite recorded Christmas songs. But Bean Crosby was a terrible guy. He was a wife and child abuser. and he did a lot of other shady stuff, and it's tainted it for me a little bit. It's a bit harder to watch his movies and listen to some of his music, but there's no other voice in the world like his,

and there probably never will be, so I can't give him up. Thanks for all you do. Love the show. Katie, thanks for the call. I think what you're hitting on is something that I touched on in the earlier block,

and that's the emotional connection to the artists and what they make. It's hard to put down. It's hard to walk away from. I understand the complexity and I appreciate you weighing in here as well. Thank you for the call. Thank you for the thoughts, Katie. Let's, you guys, 617-906, like Katie, like Ellie, like 904 to get out of 617-906-66-66-36-38.

Voicemail and text. Let's do a couple texts here. We pull up the old text machine. All right, from the 508, says Jake, regarding separating the art from the artist, I find it incredibly easy. First of all, we can't really know the truth much of the time. So we might be judging someone based on inaccurate information. Second, it's often a mistake to look at someone from the past with the moral lens of today. So right off the bat, it's fraught.

Finally, it's selective. Some people still get nothing but adoration. Others are never given another shot. So at the end of the day, I'm not going to worry about what Jimmy Page, McJaggar, or anyone else may have done in the 1970s. It seems silly and arbitrary. Love the show. 508, I hear you.

I agree with you. For the most part, I agree with you. Definitely agree with you in relation to, I don't know that I'm going to go there with Jimmy page. I'm always going to listen to Led Zeppelin, but I don't want to miss, I don't want to miss the mark here, right? There's a difference between appreciating Led Zeppelin

and being to just sit back and go, what Jimmy Page, some of that behavior, specifically with Lori Maddox, which is what I think you're referring to, is out of fucking control. And, you know, I think, but at the same time, I think that's a little bit different

from listening to the Alfred Hitchie Koch episode in which we truly detail the the physical abuse in toll. Like I, we try to make that uncomfortable for you guys, uh, because I wanted to prompt this question. You know, can you still watch the birds? And, uh, we can. But it's, it's, you know, we're comparing different. I don't want to say apples to oranges, but we're comparing, uh, you know, red apples to McIntoshes, I think, if that makes any sense. All right. Let's check out this one from the 816. Right. and hey, nobody is perfect. I find it very interesting

that those who hold power tend to have moral personal transgressions, almost as if they use it to hold power over others. I consider it to be an evil character flaw. Bill Cosby is a good example of this. The public thought he was this amazing father figure and he was raping women.

Those who enabled him are just as guilty. It definitely tarnished his reputation in the syndication of his shows. Cosby's a really interesting one for me because, I mean, the allegations are super freaking harsh and they're tough to refuse. they're tough not to believe um and his his his personality his on-screen personality just is so the opposite of what he's accused of like the like the texter's uh alludes to there and you know i haven't

seen the cosby show in a while i'm i'm not sure it's still in syndication but if i were flipping through and i saw it i would definitely pause i would definitely watch it and all i would be thinking about would be the allegations and the dichotomy between the on-screen personality and the allegations So that's a really interesting one. On the issue of abuse of power, this is kind of off topic, but it's so heavily in my head right now, I've got to mention it. I just finished watching that TV show Dope Sick. It's a couple years old now. It's about the abuses of big pharma, specifically Purdue Pharma and the Sackler family.

And it is truly horrific and an incredible look at that theme, at the abuse of power. So if you have not seen Doep Sick, I highly recommend. it. It's just fantastic television making as well. Okay, let's see what else we've got here. This one, this text comes from the 541. Jake, Tom, from the 541 here. Very excited for a replacement's episode. I'm guessing you read Trouble Boys, highly recommended. I saw the replacements in 1984, 86, and 87 in small clubs and music halls. It goes on to say the band ranged from maintenance level drunk to completely shit face. So the music ranged from sheer brilliance to sloppy covers, but it was always loads of fun and memorable and seemed

like when they could be the best band in the world when they wanted to. The recent release of Tim has the 86 show, I Was At, also highly recommend. Love the show. Rockerola. Awesome text, 541. I appreciate it, Tom. I'm jealous. I'm a little lost for words that you saw the replacements in 1984, 1986, and 1987 in small clubs and the music calls. That's incredible, man. I, of course, was not a

replacements fan by that point in my youth. You guys want to, you know, the replacement episode that Tom is talking about is an all-access episode that's coming out in the Patreon and the Apple podcast subscriber, subscription feeds only for our all-access members. That'll be

available this week. If you guys want to sign up, super easy to do. Just go to our website disgracelampod.com slash membership. You can get it there. And it's cheap, five bucks a month. You can also join for free and you can test it out for a while. See if you like it.

Okay, so 617-906-66-6638. You want to send us a text. You want to leave us a voicemail. You can also hit us up at Disgracelam Pod on Instagram, on X, on Facebook. And I want to read this, it's almost like a little blog post that the solicitor left in the comments.

And I just want to shout them out because it's pretty incredible. incredible. So, you know, I do these little reels on Instagram. I do these little like 60 to 90 seconds synopses of different, what I call sort of holy shit moments from the episodes. The one we did on Hitchcock is, it's more of a summary of the entire sort of tippy head or an abuse situation. And a user on there jumped in the comments. The user's name is Zen Kitten Art. Says, hey, it's been a while since I researched this and I'm working off memory here. But to clarify for the people asking in the comments about Marnie being made after the birds. Hitchcock didn't fire

Tippy-Hedron in the sense that you think. My guess is for the sake of keeping the real short here, he, she means me, he used that word fired because it basically amounts to the same thing. Can I hit reply and put the deets there so this doesn't get too long? So Zenn Kittner went off and she did a little research on the subject. She comes back and she goes, okay, Hitchcock owned Marnie. Like seriously, it gets way worse and creepier than just this bird. scene. I actually won't watch the birds because the extent of Hitchcock's abuse. Fuck that guy. He found her and he made her. He used Hollywood to then own her. He put her in a penhouse where he could watch her from his own apartment. He bought all her clothes. She means tippy had her in there.

Dressed her, had her hairstyle, controlled where she went and with who, who she was allowed to date. He controlled how much and what she ate. It's sick. Okay. Then she comes back about a couple minutes later with another comment. I just love how worked up Zen Kittner is getting here by all the research she continues to do. She comes back and writes her contract was how Hitchcock controlled her and was able to abuse her for so long. After the birds, he broke her. She wasn't worth another contract for him. This is way worse than getting fired because the contract controlled everything in her life. She lost everything. Her home, literally, the clothes off her back, everything. And yes, next comment. After he took everything, he made sure she was iced from Hollywood. So she had no way to

keep working and replace what he took. Hitchcock made her mentally broke her and then threw her away like trash. The more I researched this man, this is another comment, the more disgusting he became. He didn't do this just to her as a one-time thing, is mentally terrorized his film crew. Even his financial support is he got bigger and bigger. She goes on and on. I'm not going to continue to go, but check out at Graceland Pod, the comment section specifically. Get in there. Okay, get in there. Get in there. Get dirty with us. Someone mentioned, and I think that someone was me. Pulp Fiction earlier about how it was released in 1994. And here's something I've been doing recently, okay?

It's because I'm getting older. I'm not going to lie. My kids are younger, of course, and I'm trying to explain things to them and contextualize and particularly music and film. So this is, you know, I'm obsessed with this stuff, as you know, and I feel myself drawing back more into the past, trying to really remember things as they were, as I'm trying to explain them to my kids. Okay, so Pulp Fiction, if you were to go to the movie theater in October of 1994,

All right. Here are some of the other movies besides Pulp Fiction that you would see that month in the theaters. You'd see Forrest Gump, the Shoshank Redemption, Clear and Present Danger, Ed Wood, Clerks, The Mask, which we just watched the other night. If you got kids, highly recommend it. Jurassic Park and a handful of others, a bunch more, actually, that you would recognize that I'm leaving off this list because I could go on and on and on. Just trust me, you'd have fond memories of these films I'm not mentioning as well. All right. So if you were to go to the movie theater in July of 2024 this year, last month of this year, here are some of the movies you would see by comparison to the movies that you would see in the theater in 1994. You'd see Despicable Me 4. You'd see Deadpool and Wolverine. Twisters. I saw Twisters in the theater.

You'd see Inside Out 2. You'd see the bike riders. Bad boys ride or die. A Quiet Place, Day 1. Okay? Do you notice a drop off in quality entertainment or is it just me? All right. I don't care if I sound like the old guy here, but you cannot compare any of those movies that I just listed from July 2004 to the movies available in October of 1994. Similarly, if you were to go to Tower Records in October of 1994, here are the albums released that year that would be available for you to purchase. Weezer's the Blue album, 9-inch Nails is the Downward Spiral, the NITOG's Ready to Die, Green Day, Duky, Oasis, definitely maybe, Pearl Jam, Vitology. This list I mentioned barely scratches the fricking surface of amazing records released in 1994 up to and including October. It's not an entirely fair comparison because we are only in the month of August right now here in 2024. Here's a list of the so-called best albums released this year. Brat by Charlie X.C.X. Cowboy Carter by Beyonce. Hit Me Hard and Soft by Billy Elish. The Tortured Poets Department by Taylor Swift. The Great American Bar Scene by Zach Bryan. Great

title dark times by vince staples okay do i even need to comment on the comparison between the albums released in 2004 and in 1994 all right i don't but here's my point we're the 90s peak life okay i'm serious i don't care that this makes me sound old but you know what i don't fucking feel old man not at all Gen X is fucking feeling half my age with the confidence of a thousand burning suns knowing in my angry latchkey kid bones that the music and movies that we put out and consumed in the 90s were far superior to the movies and music that we are putting out now. Not that I like this. I don't.

I don't like it. I hate it. I root for the now. I don't like focusing on the past, but certain things are undeniable. Like the 90s being peak life. Okay? Call me and tell me I'm wrong. 617-9066638.

give me an era you'd rather go back and live in to consume music and movies other than the 1990s. If you weren't alive then, if you weren't alive in the 90s, I want to hear from you especially, knowing what you know about music now, knowing what you know about movies now, knowing what you know about history, and you know a lot, I know you're smart, you're listening to the C block of a freaking bonus episode about the dark side of entertainment. So I know you're here for a reason, and I want to know if you're 20 or 30 something, what are your thoughts on the 1990s? And is there another error you'd rather exist in to consume culture?

And if so, what is it? 617-906-66-66-38 to send me a voicemail or text old heads like myself, Jen X. I want to hear from you too. Stick around, guys. We'll be back in a flash to announce the winners of our free merch this week. And I will read you some reviews. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games. You get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark. When, like, young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever. My first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do.

Rather be disappointed in. Do that. Dennis Learreston. I wake up and I'm hitting him in the head with a water bomb. And Bruce Jenner is on the aisle in a karate stance like he's about to attack me, like making karate noises. And his entire the Kardashian family over there, everybody's going, and the air marshal is trying to grab my arms and screaming. And I immediately know that I've been asleep walking. David O'Yello-O.

I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or. You just go straight for the guts. Guy Branham. So anyway, Nicole Kidman broke up with Keith Thurban. Being half of a country couple was always a hat she was going to wear, not like a life she was going to lead. Oh, interesting. I like that.

Did you practice that on your way over? Gaten Matarazzo from Stranger Things. Tena, Monjou, Camilla Morone, Carrie Kenny Silver. And more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember when you'd walk into your local video rental place and there were always those two employees behind the counter arguing about movies?

Well, that's us. I'm Millie de Cherico. And I'm Casey O'Brien. And now we're arguing about movies on our podcast. Dear Movies I Love You from the Exactly Right Network. Can I say something about the Criterion Clause? Go ahead, dude. They're letting too many people in there. Okay, that's another film, grape I got two. Sadly, that rental place doesn't exist anymore.

It's probably a store that sells running shoes. Or an ice cream shop with an extra pee and an E at the end. So consider us your slacker movie clerks in podcast form. I would like to establish a timeline of the moment you figured out who Channing Tatum was. Every Tuesday, we dig into the movies we can't stop obsessing over, from hidden gems to big screen favorites. New episodes drop every week on the exactly right network. Listen to Deer Movies I Love You on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we are back. Disgracelandpod at gmail.com. You guys want to send me an email. That's where you get in touch with me.

This one comes from Matt Headley. Subject, the Hillsborough disaster message, hi. I just wanted to say a huge thank you for your episode and the subject above as a Liverpool fan. I cannot tell you how many times over the years I have heard the name of our fans being smeared because of that Kelvin McKenzie and the Sun newspaper printing their lies. The reporters actually turned up at the funerals of the matchgoing fans that never returned home. Also fantastic that you mentioned David Duckenfield for his part played in the tragic day and also more importantly the lies he told afterwards to cover his own arse. I love the podcast and I've listened for years now. I particularly like how you've evolved to cover stories like Marilyn Monroe as well as the Hillsborough disaster.

Anyway, keep up the good work. And one last time, thank you for honestly reporting something that is very close to all of our Liverpoolians' hearts red and blue. I can never say it correctly, guys. Forgive me, Liverpoolians, Liverpool people. Listen, Matt, means a lot that you wrote to us. I appreciate it. This event was horrific.

And we really, really tried hard to represent the truth of what happened accurately. this episode and it makes me happy that it resonated with you. So I really appreciate the email. If you guys are like, what the fuck is the Hillsborough disaster and what is Matt talking about? You are a few and far between because the Hillsborough disaster. This episode, we launched this a couple days ago. We put it into the feed. It's a sports subject. Okay. It's not about an actor. It's not about an actress. Not about an artist. Not about a musician. Okay. But it is about a disaster where a lot of people met their end. It's just fucking horrific.

And for some reason, the numbers on the listenership of this episode went through the roof. And we did no promotion around it at all, like literally nothing. And it outperformed episodes that we normally drop in that slot. And we have no reason why. So if you're like Matt and you heard this episode and you appreciated it,

tell me why. I want to understand. I get Matt's point of view here, but it sounds like Matt is from over that side of the pond. Obviously, the most of the listenership was here in the States. I want to know why this resonated with you guys. I want to know what we're doing right so we can keep doing it and giving it to you. And for those of you who have not heard the episode, here's the description. On April 15th, 1989, 99, 95 men, women, and children were crushed to death during a soccer match between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

Two additional victims would later die of their injuries. The Hillsborough disaster ruined lives and communities. but Hillsborough wasn't just a disaster. It was a fight for justice. It was a war between the establishment and the people and a cover-up on the largest scale, one that exploited hooligan culture in order to assassinate the character of thousands.

And once the dust settled on the very public and very contentious collision of fandom and greedy capitalism, soccer, and for that matter, all sports, would never be the same again. That's the Hillsborough disaster. It's currently available at the top of your feed or near the top of your feed.

Go check that out. All right. Appreciate the emails, guys. Disgracely on Pod at gmail.com. Hit me up on any subject you want. I love all the engagement. I love that you guys are supporting the show. You can support the show. It's very easy. I get asked all the time. How can I support you? What can I do? Here's how. Go to Apple Podcasts, go to Spotify, leave a review. All right? That's it. Leave a good review. Okay? It really, it sounds stupid. It sounds like a very tiny thing, but is it actually a big thing. It really helps with discovery. It helps propel those algorithms and deliver disgrace land, give it visibility to the most people possible in those apps. So the reviews really matter. Hit that five star. Make sure you have your auto

downloads turned on, leave a review. And what we've been doing here is a little thank you for you guys for the support. I pick out a review every week from one of you guys and read it here so you can hear your lovely names. And then we award you, we reward you with some free merchandise. So I want read this one here from Ian Sr. This was written last Thursday. He says, hey, found the podcast by searching Guns and Roses. This is on Apple Podcasts, by the way. The two-part episode on

G&R is fantastic and convinced me to subscribe Ian Senior. I hope you're listening. I hope you hear this. Get in touch. Disgracelandpod at gmail.com. Or hit us up at Disgraceland Pod on any of the apps and we will get you a free t-shirt, free pin, free hat, free poster, whatever the hell we have lying around.

Big merch news coming soon, by the way. Guys, big. Okay. Also, Let's see here. On Spotify, Michael M. Nut writes, hey, I'm a fairly new listener. Love the content. This episode was quite shocking. He's talking about the Alfred Hitchcock episode. I did not know this about Alfred.

Thank you. Also, I did send in an email slash comment on your website about some possible episodes. Once again, thank you for all the content. Michael, you got it. Get in touch, man. Discreasingpaw. Atg.com. We'll get you some merch.

All right, guys, leave some reviews for us. Really appreciate it over on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Okay, this episode is nearing its end, but the after-party continues for all of our All-Axcess members, which you can become an All-Axcess member fairly easily. Like I said earlier, just go to Disgracelandpod.com slash membership. You can sign up there. You're going to get this extended version of this here after-party. You're going to get an ad-free listening, and you're going to get an exclusive full episode every month.

Like I said, this month is on the replacements. Here's a sneak peek. Paul Westerberg counted off, and the band thrashed into the opening course. right away something was off. They sounded like a semi-truck grinding its gears for a few beats before finally everyone stopped. For a second, the room was dead silent, except for the buzzing coming from the amplifiers.

Paul stared out into the sea of angry and confused faces and yelled into the microphone. This is our last fucking performance, ever. Then he cackled with laughter, and the band kicked into a ramshackle cover of Elvis Presley's Do the Clam. After a few minutes, they stumbled to a stop. Paul stared at the floor and tuned his guitar for what felt like an hour before switching gears again

and trying to make it through Led Zeppelin's Misty Mountain Hop. It was January, 1985, and the replacements were on stage at CBGB in New York City, playing an unannounced performance that was supposed to be their East Coast Major Label Showcase. The hype around the replacements was growing fast in the industry, especially after the Village Voice were in a cover story they called them the most exciting band in America. At the band's West Coast showcase, Bob and Chris found a way to undercut that height

by letting off a pocketful of stink bombs just as the band hit the stage, and that cleared the room pretty quickly. Tonight, they didn't have literal stink bombs, but they found another way to clear the room. They kicked off the set with, You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch, and things even go weirder from me.

there. Paul started maybe 50 songs that night, but the band made it through less than five. They tried their hand at Dolly Parton, and then the theme from the Andy Griffith Show. What they didn't play were songs by the replacements. As the crowd streamed out of the club, Paul started playing a U-2 song. These labels stiffs couldn't take a joke, then fuck them. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark. When like young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever, My first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do? Rather be disappointed in. Do that. Dennis Leary.

I wake up and I'm hitting him in the head with a water bomb. And Bruce Jenner is on the aisle in a karate stance like he's about to attack me. Like, making karate noises. And his entire, the Kardashians family over there, everybody's going, and the air marshal is trying to grab my arms and screaming. And I immediately know that. I've better sleepwalk. David O'Yellowo.

I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or you just go straight for the guts. Guy Branham. So anyway, Nicole Kimman broke up with Keith Durbin. Being half of a country couple was always a hat she was going to wear, not like a life she was going to lead. Oh, interesting. I like that.

Did you practice that on your way over? Gaten Matarazzo from Stranger Things. Santa M'Jou, Camilla Marone, Carrie Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember when you'd walk into your local video rental place

and there were always those two employees behind the counter arguing about movies? Well, that's us. I'm Millie de Cherico. And I'm Casey O'Brien. And now we're arguing about movies on our podcast, Dear Movies I Love You, from the Exactly Right Network. Can I say something about the Criterion Clause?

Go ahead, dude. They're letting too many people in there. Okay, that's another film, Grape I got to. Sadly, that rental place doesn't exist anymore. It's probably a store that sells running shoes. Or an ice cream shop with an extra pee and an E at the end. So consider us your slacker movie clerks in podcast form. I would like to establish a timeline of the moment you figured out who Channing Tatum was.

Every Tuesday, we dig into the movies. Can't stop obsessing over from hidden gems to big screen favorites. New episodes drop every week on the exactly right network. Listen to Dear Movies I Love You on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back. I'm about to get out of here. But before I do, before next week's Lana Del Rey episode, there will be a rewind from our archive popping up in your feeds. Guys, we have so many episodes in our archive.

We mentioned Guns and Roses earlier in the episode, and we have a two-part episode on G&R. Those are episodes number 49 released on March 10th, 2020, and episode number 50 released on March 17th, 2020. Those are in the archive. If you have not heard them, check them out. If you like Guns and Roses, you're going to love these episodes. Okay, we also mentioned Beyonce here in this episode. We haven't done an episode on Beyonce, but we have done an episode on Becky with the Good Hair's alleged illicit lover, Jay-Z. That, too, that Jay-Z episode is also from March 2020, and Jay-Z is episode 51 in the disgrace land.

archive, okay? With Lana Del Rey coming up next week as our next full episode of Disgraceland and the theme of that episode being about strong women, I would be remiss if I did not mention the Jennifer Hudson episode of disgrace land episode number 110 released on September 20th, 2022. All right. That brings us nearly to an end, my friends. Let's recap, shall we? Number one, right now in your feed, a brand new episode on Alfred Hitchcock. Number two, coming tomorrow, a special rewind episode from our archive and we are talking Lana Del Rey next week. and because we are. I want to know from you guys

which artists you think have been unfairly treated by the press. Hit me up. 617-90666-6638 and let me know. Call me on the telephone or send me a text. Hit me up at Disgraceland Pod on the socials. Number three, merch winners, get in touch. You know who you are.

Number four, remember no one cares about great storytelling more than you do. And well, that's a disgrace. All right, to prove to you guys that yes, the 90s were peak life. Here's me reading to you, the billboard charts in the week of October 14th, 1994. The week Pulp Fiction was released

This list This list might actually hurt my argument But away we go Number one I'll make love to you Boys to Men Last week One

Peak Position 1 Weeks on chart 10 All I want to do Cheryl Crow Last week Two Peak position Two

Weeks on chart 11 Endless love Luther Vandrus and Mariah Carey Last week Three Peak Position two, weeks on chart, six.

Number four, when can I see you? Babyface. Last week, four. Pee position, four. Weeks on church. 18th. Number five, never live. Not sure.

Last week. Position, nine. Six. And start mixing. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters. into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler,

we have some fantastic guests, like Amelia Clark. When, like, young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever. And my first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do? Rather be disappointed in. Do that. David O'Yelloo.

I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or you just go straight for the guts. Dennis Leary, Gaten Moderato from Stranger Things. Tena Mongeau, Camilla Morone, Carrie Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes a suspect is found guilty before a verdict is ever read in court. On the Wicked Words podcast, I talk with the writers who dig deep into the cases that changed history,

including Marsha Clark, who went from prosecuting one of the most famous murder cases to writing crime fiction. It doesn't matter that you didn't take part in the murder. If you were at the scene at all, you're guilty of murder. Every week, the real story is revealed. Join us every Monday for new episodes of Wicked Words. Listen to Wicked Words on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.