Dissect - Doechii dissects "Alligator Bites Never Heal" (Our First Ever Artist Interview!)

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

Doechii joins the show to breakdown her new project "Alligator Bites Never Heal" (TDE Records). Cole and Doechii discuss the meaning behind its title and artwork, dissect some of its best lyrics, and Cole even gets to pitch her one of his wild musical conspiracy theories. Did you enjoy the convo? Let us know if you'd like to hear more artist interviews on Dissect! Hit us up @dissectpodcast on Twitter or Instagram. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm having deja vu right now. Oh, really? Yeah, I am. This is crazy. My brain just exploded. I don't think I've ever thought about that. I don't know. I just, I feel like intuitively or like spiritually woven in with hip hop in a way where I don't have to

strategically plan that out, but it's just kind of in me and it's in my DNA. And that makes me feel really like proud and a part of something special. And I didn't even know that I was doing that. Hello and welcome to Dysect. I'm Cole Kushna and today I'm very excited to share Dysect's first ever artist interview and our first full video episode here on YouTube. If you aren't familiar with the podcast, traditionally I break down one album per season analyzing the lyrics, music, and meaning of one song per episode.

I have full seasons dissecting albums by Kendrick Lamar, Frank Ocean, Kanye West, Tyler the Creator and many more. You can listen to those seasons for free on Spotify, Apple, or wherever. you listen to your audio podcasts. However, on today's episode, I'm sitting down to talk with one of my favorite new artist, Dochi, who just released her debut project, Alligator Bites Never Heal, on TDE Records. If somehow you have not heard of Dochi yet, she's like Kendrick Lamar, meets Cizza, meets Tyler the Creator, meets Nikki Minaj. You can hear those influences and her music, yet her artistry is completely original and true to her. Alligator Bites Never Heel is honestly

my favorite project of the year so far, so I was really excited to talk to her about how she created it. We dissected some of its best lyrics, talked about its themes, its title, its artwork. She was an incredible interview, very honest, very vulnerable, very smart. And so, without further ado, here's my conversation with the incredibly talented Dochi. All right, welcome everyone to a special episode of Dissect. I am your host, Cole Kushna. Today, I have the extreme pleasure to be joined with the fabulous Dochi. Thank you for joining Dissect. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to talk to you.

Yeah. I just have to say, this is not me gassing you up. Your album is my favorite project of the year so far. Thank you. I've been listening to it nonstop since it came out. So congratulations on a beautiful piece of art. Thank you. So we're going to talk a lot about the music.

Okay. We're going to do some dissections, talk some concepts and themes and stuff. But I wanted to start just with just generally talking about your relationship with music. Every musician I've talked to, everyone that's passionate about music, there's a point in their life where music is something you listen to and transitions to something that deeply moves you. Yeah. Do you remember that time in your life when that transition occurred?

It occurred when I listened to the miseducation of Lauren Hill. Okay. Yeah. That album was when I started. I would just listen to music before, but then when I listened to her album, it's almost like I would be performing the songs through her to myself. Okay.

And it became, oh, I want to do this. I can do this. So when did you start doing it? I mean, I started writing, I remember the first song I wrote was in the sixth grade, and it was for a talent show because I don't know. know why I did it. I just randomly wrote a rap. And I wanted to perform it with my friends and I wrote it for us and they hated it and dropped out and I did it by myself. But anyway, do you remember what it was about? Oh, God. It wasn't about anything. It was just like a compilation of random words that

rhymed. It was like, your love is like a cookie cream pie. I could eat it up. It was horrible. It was horrible, but that was the first song I wrote. And I just kept doing it over and over. So when did the talent catch up with the ambition of wanting to be a Lauren Hill, writing those early things that maybe weren't expressing you to the fullest? Like when did the talent catch up with the ambition? I think around high school, my senior year, I went to a performing arts school where I studied music for a while and I was going to go to college for.

music got accepted actually to sing in a chorus. But the talent started catching up with the ambition when I decided that I wasn't going to go to college. Right. And I was like, I also don't want to work for anybody. So I'm either going to make music work or I'm going to become an entrepreneur of some sorts. And I really started pushing my pen heavily my senior year of high school when I started to want

to make money from making music. And in order to do that, I had to kind of work my way up the ranks in my own city to get them to take me serious enough to want to pay me for shows. Right. So who were you studying when you're trying to, like, elevate your own artistry? Kanye. Yeah. Yeah, heavy on Kanye. I just loved his come up.

And a lot of Beyonce, too. Okay. She motivated me a lot with, like, her ability to be a leader in the music space. and seeing that as a woman, it just did a lot for me. Yeah. Yeah. So equally, like, artistically, but also like symbolic.

It was like I could be. It was about the ambition, you know, and finding out that Kanye was writing like multiple songs a day and things like that, it kind of molded my discipline around music. I always had a heavy sense of discipline coming up because I was involved in sports a lot. but applying it to music, it influenced me a lot in that aspect. But as far as my sound and how I was rapping and teaching myself how to rap, a lot of that influence was like Lil Wayne, Kanye West,

Nikki Minaj, Lauren Hill, even a bit of Andre 3000, Erica Badu kind of energy. And, yeah, I was kind of learning things through them. Yeah, so just to get detailed about that, So were you like sitting down and actually like looking at the lyrics or like studying, like sitting down with them? Like how were you studying it? No, I think it was more so just like, for example, there was one time I was listening to a Lil Wayne song. And it's when I heard him do a double entendre.

And I didn't know what that was. And then I researched what that was. And I found out what a double entendre was. And then I was like, oh, I want to incorporate double entendre. entendres into my music. So it wasn't like lyric by lyric. It was more so just like studying their skill and then seeing how I could implement that into me or like listening to Nicki Minaj and being like, oh my God, it sounds like she's a whole other character. Like she sounds like she's like super animated and she's becoming a character like she's playing a role. And hearing that

in Eminem as well, I was like, I didn't know we could do that. I want to try that. And then I started creating my own characters and doing stuff like that. Yeah, it's beautiful. So it sounds like your connection to music is very pure. Has your relationship with music changed now that you've found success with it? Hmm. A little bit. I think so.

Because there's like a business aspect that's involved with it. I think now that I'm in the business, the shine has, it's kind of like when the curtain falls a little bit. And I think that it's changed my perspective of music in that way. But I think the way that music makes me feel is the same. But how I consume it is a little different. So, okay, that's interesting. Like, I don't know how I think about it now. When I say how I consume it, what do I mean by that?

I feel like, I don't know. I think I need to unpack that a little more. Yeah. I don't know. Right now, we can impact, we can try. We can try or we can move on. Maybe it's like... Like, do you still feel the same joy?

Or is it like, I can see like how it might get a little jaded. Yeah, I do feel the same joy. I think because now I know how the industry works. When I listen to people's projects or I listen to music, I understand all of the things that probably came with them having to get that project. I think my view of the music industry has changed more so than how I consume music. So I take that back. That makes sense, yeah.

Yeah. So it sounds like maybe your idea of success was, once you got on the other side of it, was a little bit different than you imagined. I think I, when I, I thought it was just like, you just get signed, you become an artist, you make the music, and that's it. But it's a lot that goes into it. It's a lot of metrics, a lot of opinions, a lot of voices, and a lot of navigating. And so I feel like that has changed a little bit of my perspective of hip hop and music.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like if I'm. reading the album right, a lot of what's on the project is dealing with that transition for you. Yeah. So that's a good turning point because I want to get into the majority of conversation about your new album. Alligator Bites Never Heal. Hopefully, if you have not heard this project, stop this right now. Go listen to it. Come back because it is amazing.

But let's start with the title. I've heard you explain it elsewhere. So for my listeners, I'm curious to give your explanation. but I also heard you say something really interesting that you actually don't, there's layers to it that you're still trying to unpack yourself. So maybe tell us what you understand about it and maybe what you're still trying to figure out about it. Yeah.

I was actually thinking about it in the car when I was on the way here. And I was like, alligator bites never heal. It's kind of like I'm trying to heal wounds that will never heal. But I relate that a lot to kind of the industry. I felt very wounded.

by the industry at one point. But it's kind of an ongoing thing that I think will always expand and evolve into different ways. There's different levels, you know? The challenges that you deal with as an artist on level one when you first get signed is different from level three.

Then when you're 10 years in, that's a whole other thing too. Being in the game for that long, I can imagine. And so that's what it feels like for me today. That's what the title feels like today. It's just like wounds that, we'll never heal. So sad.

Yeah. Okay. So is that a new layer that you discovered? I think that's a new layer. Yes. Okay. Because yeah, I haven't heard that before. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a new layer that I feel resonates with me today. Okay. We'll see. Yeah. Well, I want to talk about the album cover too. Okay. It's really great.

Yeah. I'm curious about just the logistics of you trying to hold a real. Oh my God. Can you tell us about that? Then we'll talk about the symbolism, but I was just practically speaking. How was that? I was gunhole on getting a real gator. I was like, I want a real gator.

I don't want anything else. It has to be authentic. I want that energy. And the symbolism even of gators is really special to me and important to me. But let's get to the part where I actually have to hold it. I was like, hell no. This isn't going to work. I was like, I was like, this is scary.

what if it bites me? All of these feelings and emotions started coming up and I was like, I'm not going to be a pussy. I'm going to do this. It's going to be iconic. And I pulled it together and I did it, but it was very nerve-wracking.

The gator was wiggly. Okay. So, okay, so tell us about the symbolism of the gator. And I'm curious why, it's Albany Bino Gator. Yeah. Okay. So gators are,

like the the kind of like main animal in Florida of course and I'm from Florida so there's that symbolism but then there's also like the symbolism of gators are kind of the closest like beings that we have to dinosaurs

and at least I read that on Google and it just like it did a lot for me because I realized that like wow these like creatures have evolved so much over time and they've endured so much. I also read that they can survive in almost any type of climate. Cold, hot, dry, wet, doesn't really matter. And that resonates with me because I always felt like no matter what environment I'm in, I always find a way to survive. And I'm a survivor at heart. And that resonated

with me a lot. But the albino gator I chose because it's so rare. It's this rare symbolism. And it just embodies me and the environment of Florida, I just always felt like this quirky little thing in Florida and amongst my environment and where I grew up and in my hood. Yeah, there's something you wrote on your Instagram

when you, I think it's when you revealed the cover. And you're talking about the death role and like which is for the people that I don't know is that that's how they attack their prey it's how they ended up killing them by the alligator does several roles

and then you kind of use that as kind of a metaphor for your own struggle and your own journey and then you said this which was I thought was really quite profound you said this mixtape is my fight back because you said that people that survive alligator attacks the way that they survive

is that they fight they fight back. And you said that this mixtape was your fight back. I'm nobody's prey. I was born to be the predator. Which feels like, at least in my interpretation of the album, what you're talking about feels about your artistry and maybe learning not to compromise your artistry as you navigate the industry and the pressures of that. Is that accurate? 100%. I think that, and I'm going to go a little off here, but it'll all make sense. It's like over time, when I bring these things up, I feel like people get distracted and they're like, what happened with the label and da-da-da-da-da.

And I think all of these experiences and how I internalize them with my experience, with my labels, is that I became very codependent on the opinions of my team, the opinions of my label that I lost a sense of dependency on my own ideas and my own creativity. And that's when you feel like you're losing control. And that's when I feel like I'm under attack, when I feel like I don't have a say in what it is that I'm doing. And it's not that I don't have a say. I've allowed other people to speak for me for so long that I'm losing sight of who

I am and what it is that I want because I deem their opinions more valuable. than my own or what they think I should write or who I should work with or what it should sound like, you know? Right. And that over time starts to feel like this slow, like, death. Yeah, yeah. It feels horrible. Yeah, but I imagine that's pretty natural, like someone who's younger and then now

you're going into this, you know, pretty heralded and successful label. Yeah. Even just signing with TD comes with a lot of pressure. So it feels, at least my perspective, it feels natural that you would then intuitively just rely on their opinions, but then discovering that actually they signed me because I was already, yeah, exactly. It's easy to do that because it's like they know what they're doing. They've been a label for years.

You know what I mean? They've made superstars. Capital has made superstars and they know what they're doing. But not every formula fits for every artist. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I discovered. Yeah. Okay, so let's get in more deeper into the album. I wanted to talk about the track sequencing. Or maybe before we get there, do you, so this was labeled a mixtape. Yeah. So maybe we could talk a little bit about that, but also it feels more than a mixtape too, to me, conceptually. I want to hear your thoughts on it, but there does seem to be a loose, like, arc to it. I feel a sense of, journey when I listen from front to back. And a lot of that I feel like has to do with the sequencing specifically. So maybe we can touch on why a mixtape and then a little bit about how you went to put

these songs together to create an art. Yeah. Bluntly, a mixtape because nobody was paying attention to it. I was like, I want to drop a mixtape and they were like, okay, drop your little mixtape. Whatever. Do whatever you want to do. We don't care. Whatever.

However, when you say the word album, it becomes really serious. And everybody's like, oh, well, what is it going to sound like? What's the concept? And what is this? And we got to have this. We got to have that. And I was like, you know what? I just need to put something out right now.

I have a story that I need to tell. And I'll do it with a mixtape. So that's why I chose a mixtape. But the sequencing, I will say that I sequenced it like a conceptual body of work. And if I. I would have called it an album. I would have called it that. I wouldn't have thought twice if you called it an album.

I don't mind it as my debut album, you know. I think it'll be in the Section 80. People are like, is that a mixtape? Is it the album? With Section 80 a mixtape? That's the question. That's the debate. There's an eternal debate on if that's his debut project or Good Kid Mad City.

I think the consensus now is Good Kid Mad City was the debut studio album, whatever. that means. Yeah. But it sounds like this is going to end up like something in that area. Probably. Yeah. Because it feels like, so was there like a, obviously there's like kind of logistical reasons of calling in a mixtape, practical and you get a little bit more freedom. Did that, but did that shift in your own mind help you? Because you admitted to like some writer's block or some creativity struggle. Yeah. Did that help you like free your own sense of like? 100%. Okay. 100%. The whole, like, pressure of the album was just, I was like, okay, can I curse?

Oh, yeah. I was like, fuck the album. I don't, I can't deal with it anymore. I just want to write. And when I started thinking about it, like a mixtape, I was able to flow because it was like, okay, a mixtape can be whatever you want, whereas it felt like an album had to have some type of formula. Right. And I don't do well with formula. It's hard for me. I can see that. Well, so the swamp sessions, it feels like a part of that as well, where, well, what were the swamp sessions?

And was that the start of the mixtape? Kind of. Okay. Yeah, it was. I used to do these, I used to call them Coven Music Sessions a long time ago. And it was just to help me learn how to share my music. I used to have a big problem with sharing something and then deleting it off of my Instagram or YouTube or whatever

because I'd feel insecure about it because nobody was watching it because nobody knew who the fuck I was. But I was like, I'm going to do this practice where I write a song a day, I record a concept to it, and it allows me to exercise my pen, my mixing ability,

my ability to record my own visual concepts. I'm going to put it out. If people see it, they see it, if they don't, they don't. I did that. Years go on and I forgot about it. And then I was like, I think I'm going to bring that back because going back to that codependency conversation, I had to reteach myself how to trust my own creative ideas again and rebuild myself again.

And that was a good practice for me to do that. And so I brought the Swamp Sessions back, started dropping the music. And I was like, huh, I'm kind of building something here. And I think this could be a project. Yeah. Okay, well, let's dive right into it. Well, before we get into the first song, what is your general feeling about interpretations of your art?

Are you open to? Some people feel like there's kind of like an answer. Others feel like there's this idea of death of the author, where once the arts out into the world, it kind of belongs to the person perceiving it and their relationship they form. Like, what's your opinion on your own art being consumed? Uh, my brain just exploded.

I don't think I've ever thought about that. I don't mind. I mean, it is up for other people's interpretation, but I also have my own, I have my intentions when I made it. But I'm, I don't know. I don't know, Cole. I don't know. It's kind of like the title, right? Like you had a title.

It came to you. Yeah. But you also didn't quite know what it meant. Exactly. But then the meaning kind of evolved over time. Yeah. Right? So I feel the same way with art. Like once it's into the world, it moves with time. It can represent a time. It always represents the time it was created. But the perception of it can change over time as well, which I think is beautiful. Because you can always find something new. And that's, I mean, that's why I do what I do. Because, I mean, art is timeless in that way. So let's get into, I want to just kind of go, we're going to talk about every track as much as I want. too. We'll be here for like five hours. But I picked out the highlights and I want to go through the

arc of the album. Okay. So let's talk about the opening track. Um, why did you write this as the opening track or was it something you wrote and then placed first? And if so, why? Like, why? Because it's pretty existential. Like the first two lines are like a very like, okay, holy shit, we're, we're going. Let's start the story backwards. Yeah. But the second line is like, okay, there's something, there's a lot there. Yeah. Let's start the story backwards. I'm dead, she's dead.

Just another black lives mattered. And if I die today, I die a bastard. TikTok rapper, part-time YouTube actor. Pop my shit. So why that existential in the opening as the opening track? I didn't make it intentionally for the intro. But I made it years ago. Okay.

Around when I first got signed. Oh, wow. Okay. Wow. And it was just like a random rap that I made or whatever. I thought it was cool. I wrote it. And I knew it would mean something later, but it didn't really apply at the time. And it's interesting that I said, and if I die today, I'd die a rapper, TikTok rapper, part-time YouTube actor. That was before I even had stuff blowing up on TikTok.

Oh, interesting. Okay. And I don't know why I said that at that. at that time. Yeah. But, yeah. What was the question? Well, I mean, like, so that song, I mean, it's a heavy song to start the album.

So, like, that was a choice. Yeah. So what? I was kind of unpacking and combing through things there. And kind of like I'm talking about my fears. What if I choke on a slurpy? What if this happens? What if I make it big?

What if my car is floated while I'm going through, like, all of these different things that I'm thinking about in my life. It's kind of like this introspective, just a series of thoughts. Nothing with any like true through line or narrative intention, just a bunch of different things that I'm thinking in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. Could I ask you about a line that I was want to know what it means? Sure. So you say worldwide capper, I dirty the shoes and put them back in the box like voila, the Looney Tunes back in stock.

Put them back in the box like voila, the Looney Tunes back in the stock. What are you talking about there? So Looney Tunes did a collection with Nike. And so I'm talking about those. And really it's just like about cartoons and my childhood. But when I'm talking about I dirty shoes and put them back in the box, I think it's this metaphor for how I purposely like to destroy and dismantle and dirty, shiny things. the way I come, my approach to music, the way that I approach, like, just how I came in the industry, I just like to dirty things up and then kind of put them back on the shelf.

And leave. Yeah, okay. Okay, so then we get to Bullfrog. This is like where the real lyrical miracle stuff starts to happen. Yeah. So I have a dissection I want to like. So one of the criticisms, the biggest criticism of that I get, it's like, oh, you're reaching with your analysis, you know. Really?

Yeah, I mean. Wow. I think you're spot on. Well, thank you. Well, we're going to test that because I picked out, it's like the first, well, it's in the first verse. It's four bars where I think there's a possible seven entendras. Okay. So I wanted to lay out the analysis and you can tell me.

how many are correct and how many are reaching. Okay. Okay, it's with the sipping. I feel kind of like stupid reciting your lyrics to you. Is it okay? No, no, I'm here. I'm with it. Okay, okay.

Okay. Sip it on a Mai Tai, money on the Uprice. Left-right, uppercut, punch lines, make them duck. Titty's sitting up high, miss nigga tough guy. Sipping on a Mai-Tai, money on the Uprise. Left-right, upper cut. Punch lines, make them duck. Right hooks, up the cut.

Platinum hits, fuck is up. So I heard it. It could be a slant of moitai. No. Okay. Okay. That was the biggest reach. It could.

It would work. Okay. But then, okay, so then we get left, right, upper cut, punch lines, make them duck. So obviously we have punches and also combinations of punches and combinations of lyrics. Punch lines, yeah. Okay. Right hooks, up the cut. Platinum hits, fuck is up.

So right hooks, meaning. actual physical right hood but also right right hooks okay we need like a ding ding ding ding like okay up the cut uh so up you know up your fee up your money but also bleed more upper cut up oh and so triple exactly okay platinum hits so obviously hit and songs yep pop star rock star so this one genre and also pop punch and rock getting rocked

and genre I wasn't even think about the genre I was actually just on the yeah I just rock star I just rock star but okay so that I counted six plus a triple very good thank you that was that specific those set of bars took me so long

to like organize in my head. I was like, write hooks. I'm a genius. Yeah. Yeah. So where does, okay, that's interesting. So I don't know if you remember specifically here, but like where, so if you have a line,

does the line just kind of organically lead to the next one? Or do you have a concept that then you kind of rewrite, rewrite, rewrite tell you. Yeah. I almost always get the line first, but the line will trigger the concept. Okay. And then I'm like, because I said write hooks. And then I was like, oh my God, this could become like this whole boxing, punching, like fight type of entendre situation. And then it expanded into that.

And I have to keep rewriting it until I kind of get it. And I write all my points out. I write the very, the point that I'm trying to get to. And then how I want the entendre to, you know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Beautiful. There's even some, the course is great. But there's even some cool stuff there. I'll just see if I was hearing it right. Like a cable we jump hose. If a bitch feeling froggy tell a hop out. Bitch. Like a cable we jump hose.

Sweeter fingers get your whole life logged out. So like a cable we jump hose. So you're jumping like jumping a car game. Not my best. But yeah. Well, but then you say but K-Bull, right? Like bull, which leads to the frog, bullfrog, right? No, I didn't.

No? I didn't even. That wasn't intentional. But that's cool. Okay. See, this is the stuff where it's like, there's a gray area. Yeah. So, okay, so when I say that, that's what I bring to call back to my question earlier. So when I make that connection, what do you think?

What do I think about that connection? I think I should have thought of that. Because it's there, right? Like, that's the gray area, at least with what I do is like, that could be a thing. I never know. I get to talk to you right now, but. Yeah. But that's interesting.

Okay. But then, so in my mind, I was like, oh, bullfell, you know, the song's called Bullfog, right? That would have been. I should have thought of that. But you're making me sound super intelligent. Well, I like that you're honest about it. You could just move back again, of course. I could just go with like, yeah.

Okay, let's jump to boiled peanuts then. Yes. It's a sunny day. The gang's all here. One of my favorite tracks, the sample is fucking awesome. Thank you. People sleep on boiled peanuts. It's one of my favorites, too.

The beat is amazing. One of my favorite lines on the entire project. Well, it's a sequence of lines, but you say, I've been resting with my piece, and that's the irony. Obviously, there's some wordplay there, but then this is the line I love. I'm a dying sunflower, leaving a trail of seeds. So, so can you unpacked I've been rested with my peace And that's the irony

I'm a dying sunflower Leaving a trail up seas In the 813 This my legacy So could you unpack that a little bit for me? Yeah, sunflowers are super popular in Florida And I used to eat Sunflower seeds a lot

When I was younger And so It's just kind of like a staple in the hood Like it's a hood snack We love it and I just saw a visual in my head of me walking and just like if I was to trailblaze or leave a trail of anything it would be these sunflower seeds and each one that I leave grows another sunflower. So it was just kind of like a visual picture that I painted. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Okay, so well before I get too far, is there any, is there any like line in any of your songs that you're like, no one's supposed to be? talking about how fucking awesome this line is. Have I missed something that you'd want to talk about in these opening tracks? I mean, no. So far you pretty much hit them. The resting with my piece and that's the irony, I mean the iron and, you know, rest in peace. It's right there. Yeah, yeah.

No, it's super clever. Well, I like that, I love about that line is that it's like you're talking about guns, but you're actually, the irony is that you're actually talking about peace, like actual peace, which is obviously the opposite of violence. Another entendre there. We need a tally on the screen. Okay, denial is a river. This song is...

Okay, so when I was listening to the album at first, I was like, okay, all these songs we just talked about, I was like, okay, awesome, great. And then when I got to this song, I was like, fucking, okay. This is... Okay, we are on to something, like, amazing here. Yeah. Remember old dude from 2019, nice clean, nick of demit dirtier than laundry. Took a scroll through his IG just to get a DM from his wife. It seems like this song is becoming its own hit.

Are people talking about this? Yeah, like it's the one. I think it's the most streamed. It's the most streamed on the project. Okay, aside from Nissan Ultima. Aside from Nissan, yes. Which is the single? Is there a formal single?

Is Nissan Ultima is like the single? I guess it is. Okay. I don't know. Yeah. So let's talk about the, like, have you ever heard that the phrase, comedy is tragedy plus time? Yes.

Like this song is like the epitome of that Which Well one I want to hear just like maybe just How you conceptualized it Like where the idea come from Did it come from the beat But also because you're so lighthearted With the kind of tragic story elements

It feels at least for me Very cathartic to even listen to Because I don't know There's something freeing about talking about tragedy And framing it with comedy So that sounds like that was part of it. Definitely. I knew it was like I was at the point in my sequence where I was like,

hmm, I'm missing a story, like a literal story, not me being like over metaphorical and cool. Like I just need to tell what happened in a sequence of events in order and I need to tell a story. But this is such a dark story. And I knew that later in the project I was going to hit those dark. topics, but very seriously, and even sonically, it's very serious. But I was like, I need to be able to talk about this in a way that can be funny. Yeah. Yeah. And that beat was just perfect.

It just took me immediately into like, it felt like opening up a book. Yeah, it really feels like that. Yeah. So one of my favorite lines from that song, you say, I was so confused, what should do she do? She didn't know about me and I didn't know about Sue. didn't know about me and I didn't know about Sue. I opened up the messages and had to hit the Zoom. Turns out the girl was really a dude. So is that a reference to a boy named Sue? No.

Please say yes. Okay. Okay. So the kind of the twist is that the person that your partner was cheating on was turned out to be a man. Yes. Okay, so a boy named Sue is a Johnny Kemp. Cash song.

Oh, I didn't know that. A boy named Sue, but Sue is traditionally a girl's name. So I thought you were saying, I didn't know about Sue, which would be a boy. But hidden as a girl, because you first thought she was a girl, right? No, that's not it. So we say, in Florida, we say Sue. Like, what's up, Sue? Okay.

So what's good. You know what I mean? Like, we just kind of like say it. And so at first, the lyric was, she didn't know about me. She didn't know about me. and I didn't know about you, but I was like, that doesn't hit. Too plain, yeah. Yeah, and so I switched it to Sue.

Okay, all right. All right, so the title, hopefully I got this one right. I struck out there. Title, is that a reference to the Wendy Williams phrase? Okay. Lucy, stop it. Denial is a river in Egypt. Your husband is gay.

I thought that was super clever because you obviously leave out the part that's relevant to the story. Is there anything beyond the reference in that title? No, I mean, this is all like this big elaborate story on how I found out that my boyfriend was DL. It's nothing like, nothing crazy. My favorite part of the song is when you do the breathing exercise at the end. Okay, the breathing exercise, I was like, when I did these, um, I did the rap first, and then I did the therapy part second, like the script.

And I just naturally kind of set it. And I was like, okay, we're just going to practice a breathing exercise. And then I was like, wait, this could be like on some dougy fresh, like beatboxing shit, but I don't know how to beatbox. I tried my best. But I was like researching videos, his old videos in like his prime where he was like and I was like crazy and I was like this is so

classic and hip hop I'm shitty at it but I tried no it's really it's super fun okay so I want to talk about the sequence weight to death roll to profit yeah which feels at least in my perception of the album pretty important to the journey

and probably your own journey yes because you so who Who's the phone call that you get on the track before wait? Nope. God made a day 24 hours. Yeah. It's not a lot of time. Because he just can't do it all in one moment.

There's past, present, the future. You've got to put pieces and places. It's 24 hours. You take part of those hours. You do what you can do and you go to date. The female voice on Bloom is, it's a friend. I was at a game night at a friend's house, and it is that friend's aunt. And we were all really drunk.

We were, like, just in the house having a conversation, and we took it outside to, like, smoke a cigarette. And at this time, I was working on this album. And I was like, I'm just going to keep these voice memos of different conversations that I have with all the women in my life, because I feel like it'll be important someday. They always have some cool shit to say. And we went outside and I was asking her questions I hit the voice memo and she gave me some really good game and I was like one day this will be important

Yeah and then that kind of influences the theme of weight Exactly And so that feels like You know like a lesson learned and applied Yes But then it's sequenced right after his death roll Which I feel like Very sneakily dark song

Or at least of the first half of it because it has is just, it's like one of my favorite beats on the, one of my favorite songs on the project. Yeah. But when you really dig into the lyrics, it's pretty dark, especially that first verse. Fall to my knees, take a line, I needed a boost, stumble inside of the booth, mumbling under the truth.

As sweat drips down my tits, I contemplate how did ever get like this? So I was wondering, was there any intention in, because after wait, this kind of beautiful, therapeutic song and then you get this really dark song. Yeah. Was there an intention to juxtapose in there? 100%. Because weight is ultimately about me making peace with stillness,

even in moments of uncomfortability. And I've talked about this so many times, but like when, at least for me, when I'm in an uncomfortable position, I usually try to rush out of it. Like, okay, well, I'm in an uncomfortable place in my life. Let me just figure out the answer. answer, let me grab a self-help book, let me just hurry up, figure this out so I can move out of this

and I can fucking be happy and perfect again. Right, right. But I realize that especially this season in my life that I just came out of, like that uncomfortable space, I needed to sit in that. Sometimes you really need to just sit in it and you can't rush out of it. You can't rush, you know, through those things. And so that's what weight is about. it's about me making peace with being still and just waiting.

But it goes into death roll because I'm still in the uncomfortable place. I've just made peace with it. And now at least in this uncomfortable place with death roll, I can confront those problems and actually verbally say, I sweat drips down my tits. I contemplate how did it ever get like this? Yeah. That's the most powerful part of that song for me.

And what you say right before that, where you say fall to my knees, take a line, I needed a booth, stumble inside of the booth, mumbling none of the truth. Yep. Which is, it feels like, well, you've been pretty transparent about doing some drugs and you're sober now, but it does feel like you are confronting head on the death role that you're in, right? Exactly. And that, yeah, that whole first verse is powerful. And then, but then it goes into the, it feels like there's a progression, right? because it gets into profit

and the second verse of death roll, you're still asking, what's the point? I go to light the joint. I wonder why light. And really like confronting. Yeah. Was this specifically about indulging

in drugs and stuff at this time? It's kind of like I had this realization where I was like, this isn't serving me anymore. It's not even like, it's not helping. It's not, at first I thought it was helping me in the studio.

But now I go there and it's not even helping me say the truth anymore. It's not helping me creatively. I'm not even my dopest right now. And confronting that. I wrote that session or I wrote that song in my last session where I was drinking and doing drugs. And I was like, this is it. Yeah.

That feel like, was it hard? Did you just stop cold turkey or did you, was there like a? Yeah, I stopped cold turkey because I tried to slowly transition. It's like little things. Like I tried, oh, no more hard liquor. I'm just going to do like wine and champagne. It doesn't work. And I was like, eventually it just got to a point where I was like, I feel worse.

I feel worse and I don't recognize myself and it's not even like helping me. This sucks. It's not fun anymore. Does it feel like that in retrospect with some distance, did it feel like that was a way for you to just kind of cope with this huge transition in your life? I think so. I think so because it gotten so sad and unhealthy to the point where I felt like I couldn't create without taking a drink or taking a shot or something like that. And that's when I realized like, oh, I've forgotten the source of my creativity. I've convinced myself that drinking or drugs is the source of where I'm getting my creativity. And now I know I'm truly lost. Right. Yeah. So the really cool moment at the end of death roll where you say these loose ends or a hymn when I'm bleeding and I'm fading out.

And then we get the kind of theatrical element of it starting to fade out. And then he's loose ends. I'd rather choose me over them. These loose things over him when I'm bleeding and I'm fading out. You know I got up that stock. I got up my profit when I'm outside. Keep my composure when I'm outside. And then you say, you know, I got to up that stock.

I got to up my profit when I'm outside. Keep my composure when I'm outside sober. Got to up my profit. Of course, then it transitions into the song, Profit, which feels at that, especially after that moment, very celebratory, very like I've overcome something. I've faced it. I've said it. I've decided. Let's focus.

Let's get back to it. And then we get right into profit. don't make statues of critics, they don't make statues of fans, I'm not no parliamentician, I can't be shaking them hands. Fuck modest, fuck polish, fuck the politics. I pledge allegiance to the motherfucking profit, bitch. Yeah. That's one of my favorite, those three songs together are just a really great narrative

moment, which is bringing back to what I said, it feels feeling more than a mixtape. These are the kind of moments that just feels very intentional, the sequencing, that transition. Okay, question about a bar. Okay. On profit. You say they don't make statues of critics. They don't make statues of fans. I'm no polymetician. Yeah. I think I'm saying that right. Yeah. I can't be shaking them hands. So what's a polymetician? I'm saying politician. Just I'm saying it like in a childish type of way. Okay. I don't know. I do that a lot. Like in my song, yucky, lucky fruit cake instead of saying I'm narcissistic. I say I'm narcissistic. It's just so I can get an extra syllable.

Okay. Because I was like, oh, is it like Polly? Like Polly Emery? Okay. Okay, so then we get another phone call. Okay. Right at the end of Prophet. So who's the man that calls you and tells you to be like a star?

No, man, I'm just really proud of you, though. That's all. I just want to tell you that I'm proud of you. I love you. Talk your shit, go crazy. I mean, go beat out. icon that you are in I saw. That's Musa.

Okay. President of T.E. He called me that was in Miami. I took a trip to Miami. They did not want me to go to Miami. And I was like, I don't want anybody a part of my process. Like, I don't want anybody a part of it. Don't talk to me.

I don't want anybody's opinion. I'm just going to make music in Miami. It did not go well. Wait, what? The music making didn't go well? Yeah, no. I made music, but, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't it.

Yeah. But what he says to you, there feels like, at least within the album. Yes. Because then we get right into Boombap. Yeah. Which right after the call, after embracing everything that we experienced on the three songs before that. Yeah. And kind of tapering off from like the beginning of the album, which starts very Boombap, very confident, going through this kind of low.

Boombat feels like a high. Yes. And again, there's a catharsis in Boombap that I detect. There's a freedom to it. Yes, it is. So what were you feeling when you made that song? So many feelings. Boombap.

Rap, rap, rap, rap-de-wrap. Boom-bap, bat, bat, bat. They said they can't, but they said they want me to rap. There's so many layers to that song. I'm going to name the layers, but some of them might contradict each other. but that's kind of the point too. There's this layer of frustration with Boombap where I was coming right off of my song What It Is, my hit single.

And after I did that, there was a lot of chatter about me continuing to make singing hit songs that sounded like that, which kind of frustrated me. But I love to sing, right? but it frustrated me because I was like, but I want to rap. But then like there's this narrative of like a type of rap as a female rapper that, how do I explain this? I'm trying to break this down properly. I was frustrated about like, oh, it's not real rap because you're not rapping about this

or you're not rapping like that. We want you to really rap. And I made fun of real rap. And I'm like, okay, fine. Boom, bat, rap, bat. This is what y'all want me to sound like. This is what you want me to do. I can't be sensual.

I can't be sexy. This is what y'all, this is how y'all want me to be. You want me to be hard. You want me to be in some baggy plants. And that's what makes a female rapper a good MC if she's not, you know, she's rapping like that. But then, on the other hand, there's also another layer that's like, this freeing boom bat rap and it's like I'm mocking

I'm mocking somebody but I'm also like freely expressing myself in this creative way and I'm speaking in tongues and I'm anointing the track I'm anointing my life I'm saying all these things and it feels freeing because I love rapping but then I'm also singing I don't know

Cole well I'll tell you my favorite moment on the entire album It's just two words. Can you guess? I'm everything? Yeah. Yes. It's real and it's rap and it boom and it bab and it bounce and it clap and it's

and it clap in his house and it's rap. That, the way you deliver that, that, it's like offbeat, which is perfect because it's like I'm outside of the script. I am, and it feels very, like, it felt very in the moment. I'm not sure how that moment came about. But it feels like very liberating. He's as a listener. I can feel this is my thesis statement.

Yes. This is me breaking free of something. Yeah, that was like the point. I think when I said, I'm everything, I screamed it because I was like, this is what I'm trying to say. I'm just trying to say I'm everything. When I say it boom and it bap and it bounce and it clap, meaning like it is house and it's trap. I make house music. I make rap music.

I'm sexy. It's still bounce. It's still clap. It's still all of these things. I'm everything and that's okay, right? Yeah. That's okay too. I was so angry, like really, really angry with like the height of people like, we don't really get it.

We don't get her. She made a song, she made persuasive, but then you make a song like crazy and it's rage rap. Like, who are you? What are you doing? Do you even know who you are? But it's like me confronting myself like, well, shit, do I? Why do I? do I jump from genre to genre? What does this mean? Nobody around me is doing this. I don't know.

I don't have a point of reference to reference like some type of artists who did this and it worked and they did five different genres and it actually worked for them. Right. So it was a confusing time for me. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I was granting. No, that's, no, it's beautiful. I do have a question about, I think maybe I have a better idea now hearing you talk. But when you say, went on the road for this shit, played humble for this shit. You say Mugsy Buggles. I gave my soul to the shit. A-lumse-Cold for this shit.

Went on the road for this shit. Played humble for the shit. Mugs be be-goles with the shit. Mike called J-Cold for the shit. I'm with the bull. I pronounce his name wrong. Okay. I know that's intentional, but there was there anything.

It was just another syllable thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just like me representing like underdog. But with that, I just said it that way because I didn't. know how to pronounce his name. Honestly, I had just heard about the guy that day. Oh, really? Okay. So, I didn't know how to pronounce his name. Sorry. Okay, did you know, so, okay, but did you know what team he played for? Because you, then you referenced J. Cole. Um, no. Does that have some type of

connection? So Mugsy Bugs, most of his career played in Charlotte. I didn't know that. And Jaycold is now part owner of the Charlotte Hornets. Oh, really? Couldn't see him Jardt's? I don't know that. at least, Google. Yeah, I didn't know that. And then that specific part, you say humble, and then the cadence of that part and the Kendrick-ish of everything. Was that an interpolation of element? No, it wasn't.

At least not intentionally, but I think that's a really cool connection. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so here's, you're going to have to bear with me for a second. Okay. This is my biggest conspiracy theory. It's actually not even a conspiracy theory. but it's a sequence of connections that I made between a couple of songs and a few references.

And you're the first artist that we've had on Dissect. So this is the first time that I've been able to talk to an artist about this kind of thing. So it's like, I'm not really going to ask you if this was intentional. Okay. But I wanted to lay out to you a sequence of connections that I put together. Okay. And just ask your opinion of like what you make of it. Because this is where I'm like, as a listener, as someone who's analyzing music,

I will draw a conclusion and I'll tell you what my conclusion is. Yeah. But I'm always, I'll be curious to know what the artist's perspective on this kind of thing is. Okay. So on Catfish, you quote, Buster Rhyme's Ruha, 1996 song, right? Yep. And then on the video for Nissan Ultima, you quote, you visually quote,

Kendrick Lamar's All Right Music video. Correct. So for those that don't know, we'll put up on the screen,

but you're in a car with TDE members which parallels. Kendrick, there's a snippet before All right proper starts on the music video where Kendrick's in a car

with TD members and he performs a new song or a snippet of a song. And so you visually quote him on Nissan on Ultima. But did you know that the, that portion of the All Right video is actually quoting the Buster Rhymes wooha video? Get out! Okay, so it's crazy. Okay, so the Buster, in the Buster

rhymes video, he has a snippet that he performs before Wuhaw starts. And that, it's a new song snippet. Whoa. And he's in a car driving with his homies rocking out the same way Kendrick is. And he's rapping just a snippet of an unreleased song. And so, okay, so then Kendrick is quoting. I think, I mean, I would assume Kendrick was doing that on purpose. Because if you listen to how Kendrick is rapping in that snippet, he's interpolating the cadence of Wooha.

Tell me who the bitch nigger Hating on me Jumping on my dick But this dick ain't Wicked up every Nicker Nicarry must succeed And so

That felt intentional So there's a connection between You quoting Kendrick Kendrick quoting Busta Yeah You quoting Busta Yes But then here's where it gets kind of crazy

Sorry this is taking so long It's okay It's okay I'm like tuned in Okay, Woo-Ha is actually quoting some things. So the source of the original quote that both you and Kendrick are playing off of it, the hook of Woo-Ha is quoting Sugar Hill Gang from 1981, or very early hip-hop hit called Eighth Wonder.

But then that song, the Woo-Ha from that song, is quoting actually another thing. From 1979, there was a live recording of DJ Hollywood. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him. But he's one of the earliest hip hop pioneers. Some claim he's like the first hip hop DJ. Oh, amazing. And he says, he does the woo-ha over, he's looping the break from a disco song.

Cool. And he says woo-ha. I got the girls in jazz. So it's like, okay, so we have Dochi 2024. Right. Quoting Kendrick, quoting Busta. Yes. Busta quoting Sugar Hill Gang, who's quoting,

essentially we get back to the origin of hip-up. This is powerful. So having, if that made sense to you, like, what is your, what do you think about those connections? It's like this recycling and like history repeating itself through like these special legacy mediums that just feels so unintentionally like strategic. in some type of way. Right.

I don't know what to make of it besides, like, I don't know. I just, I feel like intuitively or like spiritually woven in with hip hop in a way where I don't have to strategically plan that out, but it's just kind of in me and it's in my DNA. And that makes me feel really, like, proud and a part of something special. And I didn't even know that I was doing that. Okay, that is my exact, that's my exact interpretation of that. I've written down here, Doche is the continuation of hip-hop tradition. And it's just like, I'm glad that it wasn't intentional because I think it happening organically makes it that much more special.

Because it's like more honest or in a way or more organic. You're just living like because you're expressing yourself freely, these connections happen because of who you've studied, who you've been influenced by. Yeah. Where you come from like all these things that make you, you. That's incredible. just naturally I'm having deja vu right now Oh really?

Yeah, I am, this is crazy I feel like, I don't know Not that we've been here before But I'm gonna say, I just feel like we're gonna do this again At some point Oh, well the next album Yeah Yeah

Well actually, okay I want to talk about the next album But we have to talk about the tail end of the project Okay So one of my favorite things about Sitting and living with the project For how long has I been out now? Oh my God

Two months? One month? Oh, two months? Okay, I don't know. I forgot. I should have wrote down. Okay, anyways, I mean listening to it nonstop, and I love finding, like, new favorite moments. Yeah.

And so my current favorite sequence of the album is slide to fireflies to Beverly Hills. Really? Yeah. Oh, God. What? It's my least favorite. Really? Yeah.

Oh, interesting. Well, let's talk about flyer fly. Fireflies. Yes. It's your least favorite? Yeah. Wait, just why? Okay.

Fireflies was a bit of a compromise. That's Musa's favorite. He loves fireflies. And he was like, you gotta put fireflies on the air. It's gonna be amazing. And I was like, I don't want to put this on there. But I literally didn't take anybody's opinion for this project. And I was like, everybody gets one pick.

And that was his pick. Okay. All right. I'm a little bit disheartened. Because the second half of fireflies, I want to ask why it's two parts, like why you combine this, but are you familiar with, okay, so the second half of fireflies is fucking gorgeous. It is so beautiful and so minimal. There's something just very peaceful and content when I hear it. It really reminded me of Bjork's Vespartine.

Do you know that album? Yes, I love Bjork. She's amazing. Yeah, and that's one of my favorite albums of all time. but there's something about the kind of frail electronics of that song and the kind of imitation harp and then just like beautiful vocals over them. I just, why don't you like this song? Here's the thing. I think it's my vocals.

I recorded it a really long time ago and I was smoking heavy and I was like drinking heavy and my vocal production of it I don't like so much. I also was doing, I was trying to do these jazzy notes in the beginning where I'm like, what, but my voice, I was hitting the wrong notes. I'm sharp. It's just whatever. That's the problem. But I will say that I do lyrically love it. And it started off as a prayer that I wrote in my diary.

And I was just having a bad session. I didn't know what to write. And I was like, I'm just going to turn this journal entry into like, whatever. And I was praying about, I said, don't let me down fireflies, keep the light till it's over. And I have this visual in my head of me, like, I think about my life and my journey of faith where it's like I'm walking. But I can only see the next step once I take it. I follow this quote. It's called leap and the net will appear.

And I live by that because it's like you have to take the jump first. And I just imagine all these fireflies lighting my path, but it only lights up when my foot hits the ground. I'm rambling. No. Nonetheless, I like the lyrics. I hate the song. Okay. Well, it's one of my favorites, particularly the second half.

But, I mean, even that image, because that then goes into essentially the last song song in Beverly Niles. Oh, you wanted to know why they were together, too. Well, specifically, well, slide, I just wanted to mention because it's like, it feels like a hit. Yeah. And it's just a great song. Yeah. Thank you. But Fireflies into Beverly Hills, which is kind of the conclusive, I would say, moment of the album.

Mm-hmm. The part that you just recited about the Flyer Flies feels very like we've kind of gracefully landed at a natural resting place. Yeah. And then we get Beverly Hills. Mm-hmm. And so there seem to be two tensions on the album, two central tensions. there's the kind of artistic journey and the struggle, and then there's this what I feel like is this relationship that was talked about.

Was it one relationship or was it? It was kind of like when I talk about multiple relationships on the album, but I think the overall point of even me talking about them is just like about how I behave in relationships and this pattern of this type of archetype of person that I was dating over and over, like this repeating mistake that I kept making, which kind of goes back to the title of Alligator Bites, never heal. And I felt like Beverly Hills was me concluding like, I'm not doing this anymore. I, don't I say that in the beginning? That voice memo is actually, I used to talk to myself a lot through voice memos. I have my whole life. And that voice memo is the last

day. I had this, my first love. I'll never forget him. I was obsessed with this guy. And I would not let our relationship go. We had broken up. I would not let it go. And I remember, like, talking to him one day. And I was like, ew. I was like, ew. This is dead. You're gross. Like, you have, like, gaslit me to, I'm rambling. Anyway. No, yeah. The point is. In terms of of like him symbolizing something. Yes. He was symbolizing like, it's almost like I was looking at this version of myself through him that I was done with.

And I was like, this is bad. It's weird how the flip can just switch, right? Quick. Yeah. And we were having a normal conversation. I was just like, you got to go. But, yeah, and that kind of ties in with Beverly Hills. It's done.

It's dead. I'm not hitting him up anymore. But I will say I have a regret about how I ended that project. I wouldn't have put Beverly Hills on there, looking back. I know it's only been like a month. But I wouldn't have put it on there. Not my favorite. I just didn't know it's still, I didn't know what else to say.

I didn't have anything else to say. Okay. Was it one of the later? When did you write that song? Beverly Hills was really old. kind of always just one of a pick that, you know, my engineer actually really loves. She was like, you have to have Beverly Hills on there. And I was like, whatever.

The story kind of tied in, but also I would have liked to end it with rap. Oh. If I could have. Right. That would have been nice. Well, let's talk about how you do end it because it's an outro track. What do you consider? Yeah, Alligator Bytes Never Heel is an outro track.

Always wanted to end with that. Okay. So, yeah, it's interesting. at least thematically, it ends on this notion of dancing. Yes. Was that an intentional place to land or what does that mean? That is one of the most special, meaningful studio sessions I have ever had in my life when I made that song. It's not like the best most special song, but it's like I was really having a dance, a waltz with God.

Like, I just felt so connected and these sounds and these, it just felt like me and like sound were just dancing. It was just like it was moving all over my body. I was also on shrooms when I made it. So, of course, I felt deeply connected to it. I just recorded it with like no shoes and it was just like, it just flowed out of me. And it's amazing. Okay. Okay. Well, beautiful. It's a great project. Congratulations on making it.

Thank you. It sounded like you're a little bit daunted by the album. Could I ask a few questions about the potential? Are you even thinking about that at all? I am. I am. Honestly, I think my fears of the album have kind of went away now that I did the mixtape. I know exactly what I want to do for the album. Oh, I know exactly what I want to talk about. I know what to do now. Awesome. That's really cool. I doubt you want to reveal that, but it seems like you're the type of artist that's going to have some kind of concept. Yeah. Do you want to play with like a Kendrick-esque narrative arc that's very intentional? Or do you see yourself doing more of like what this project is, which is feels more, songs feel singular, but there is a kind of arc to it? I think I'm still unpacking it. I know for a fact. that with the album, I want there to be a lesson, for sure. I don't know if I want to tell that lesson through a concept or not.

I haven't decided. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Yeah. Okay, could I ask you a few non-album questions? Okay. So as a student of hip-hop, as a continuation of hip-hop, as a continuation of hip-hop, I have to ask you about the biggest hip-hop event of this year, which was the Drake and

Kendrick Battle. Specifically, I love hearing. I love to hear where people were when family matters and then meet the grams drop and your experience of those two songs. Yeah. Where was I? I was with Jada, my engineer. I think she pulled it up.

She was like, did you just drop the disc? And I was like, what? I can't remember where we were. Were we in the car? I don't know. I can't remember. But my jaw was like, and I was like... You're talking about Family Matters right now or Meet the Grams?

Which was the first one? So Family Matters was the Drake song with the video. Oh, no, I remember exactly where I was. Hold on. Both of them. Yeah, they dropped the same night. Exactly. Drake drops the Family Matters.

There's video and song and then I think it was like 30 minutes later. I heard it the next morning and I was actually at my house. It was first thing in the morning and I heard it. And I was like, this is crazy. This is about, but I knew I was like this is about to be like a hip hop. This is going to be history. Yeah. Yeah.

What was your action to meet the Grants specifically? It was just insanely dark. Honestly, I was like, ouch. Yeah. Like, ouch. That's all I can say. Yeah, okay. I know you're kind of close to it.

Do you have a favorite song from the battle out of all the songs? Favorite song? I love them all. Okay. I got it. I got it. Point taken. Okay.

So I have to ask you, I've heard you talk about MF Doom. a few times in the past you've kind of recently got into him we did our last season on mfdeme so i've been very much in that oh thank you very much in that world so got to ask like favorite song favorite favorite favorite album and just like what what about his artistry do you enjoy favorite song that's too or album right right it's really really hard um i mean right now it's red and gold i remember when let's I really relate to his embracing of imperfection. It's so raw that it's perfect.

It is so freaking cool. It makes me feel so at peace with how I write music because I have two spectrums where like one spectrum I'm super, super perfectionist, especially how I deliver things. But then I have this other part of me where I'm like, Nope, that's it. It's done. No hook. It doesn't need it. That's it. And he really, really makes me appreciate that. Also, how was he shoving and getting all those samples cleared?

Was it just a different time back then? I'm like... I think that's how it started. But yeah, I think it kind of flew under the radar for some of them. Right. I wish I could do that. Okay. So what's the last album? that like really moved you? Minnie. Minnie Ripperton. Okay. Some of her songs

off of the album where she has the lion. Okay, I'm not familiar. Really? Am I saying her name correctly? She makes love in you is easy because her album has been touching me recently.

Okay. But hold on, hold on. Have you heard the new Willow Smith album? I am not. Man, she has a classic on her hands. Okay. Like, it is really, really beautiful. That album is the last one that has touched me.

And the standout song for me is called Down. Okay. So, so, so beautiful. Her blend of jazz and rock music. Her vocal expression, the writing. I mean, it just, I wake up to it every morning. It feels like gospel in a way. Yeah, that has to be the last album that really touched me.

Okay. Mm-hmm. How about the last film? It seems like you're into film. Yeah. Last film, like, okay, the last film that I thought was pretty fucking cool and wild was blink twice.

It just came out. That's what Chan and Cadeham. But like, a cool artistic film that I really liked. I don't know, man. Okay, yeah. I'm watching Love Island right now. I'm not. I'm like looking for like some deep.

No, yeah, yeah. No pressure. No pressure. Okay, I was going to ask you what book, but maybe I should pass. Oh, yes. Okay. Okay, so I'm reading this book currently that's called Ain't I a Woman? And it's about black women and feminism. It's really, really touched me and also enraged me at the same time. What's about? It's breaking down the early stages of feminism and how black women weren't included in that in the women's movement when it happened and how that translated. to modern day right now. And so I've been reading about that.

But it also, of course, touches on topics about slavery, but also colorism, which is something that I have been unpacking again. I feel like as a dark skin woman, I'm always kind of unpacking colorism. But more recently, now that I'm reading that book, I'm just really unpacking that, which I hope to talk more about in my music. I say, yeah.

Yeah. Do you ever really explore? There's some stuff. There's one line specifically where you say, I wonder why a label. Yes. I wonder what my label see in Abish is black. Right. Yeah.

And I didn't really touch on it too much in this project because I'm still unpacking it. But there's something there. Yeah. You know, I get a lot of different comments like, oh, she's so underrated because she's dark skin. Something about that doesn't resonate with me. Okay. But there's also truth in these comments as well. But, you know, we'll talk about it.

Well, I'm excited to hear more about that. Thank you very much for doing this. Thank you. This has really been an honor. Thank you. And thank you for creating a beautiful work and sharing it with us. Cole Kushna. Awesome.

Period. Thank you. Thank you. That was great. All right. Wow. You are so good. Oh, thank you.

That was my first. any of you ever.