Distractible - Wade Wins (Part 2)

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

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That's just $267 bi-weekly. Cash value of $40,294. Plus, eligible Ford owners get a $1,000 bonus. For details, visit your local Ford store or Ford.ca. Good evening, gentle listener, and welcome to Distractable. This episode, malevolent Mark likes to be on top and starts the pasting early with Wade in his crosshairs. Well-loved Wade invokes the fuck-you rule, declares a dictatorship, and returns to his Kantian corner. Burlesque Bob defines his friendship boundaries, abstainest of manners, but preaches redemption.

From oppressing Wade again, to hero worship. Yes! It's time for Wade Wins, Part 2. Now sit back and prepare to be distracted and enjoy the show. Hello, welcome to your favorite podcast with your favorite host. Well, maybe second favorite, right, Bob? Wink. Wink. Wink. Oh, man. You guys are really enjoying this. Whoa, hey, wait your turn, buddy. Okay, that's how we're starting. I was like, you know, I was upset at the end of the last episode. I'm gonna come in here fresh,

feeling happy, and you... Good, I'm glad that you're happy. Now, type down. I was. Okay, chill out. I'm happy too. So, this is the podcast called Distractible, hosted by the one and only Markiplier, previously hosted by the one and only Bob, and today we're going to be discussing many various things. We're going to be discussing many various things. We're going to be going into it. Maybe we could crack into a little bit of small talk before we get to the meat of the matter and declare the winner. How are you guys? I'm great.

You know what? It feels good to win something so regularly. I don't really have that in life. So every time we show up to record a new episode, either I'm hosting or I just won. And like, it's just a a great it's a great all around boost you know it just makes it makes everything a little nicer it just feels good like everything everything's been better than it was before i can only yeah you know i can only imagine so good really good i'm glad yeah just excellent you seem refreshed and really looking

your best uh wait i heard stan Stanley cups have lead in them. That's got to hurt. What? It's got to be tough for you. Because of my hockey history? No, no. Sorry. The Stanley, the big drinking cups.

The very popular insulated drinking cups. Stanley. Toxic. I know you like those. Oh, I won't use that, I guess. Thanks for the update. Do I have a history with those? I don't know.

It just seems like something you'd be into. trends and all and i don't know anyway that's great thanks for your update on that bob i tossed him a softball and he's just did i do some what okay we've had so many episodes in a row that i should have won including one called wade wins this episode and i have dealt with it i've gotten here and i i swear something must have happened did i did i piss you guys off well it's the luck of the draw what's the fuck with the stanley comment what no i'm just saying you seem like the type that likes i thought you like stanley cups he was concerned that you shouldn't drink out of your stanley tumblr if it might have lead in it so you should look into it he was being a good friend if anything why don't you tell bob about it why he said he was concerned about your well-being and then you're the one who threw it in his face yeah wow wow wow bob do you

use stanley cups you don't seem like the type no i did i have i have a big uh okay cool i don't know it's a big cool cool that probably doesn't have lead in it i'm probably safe it's fine yeah probably it's the one who's in trouble yeah yeah anyways it's time to get into it uh it's funny that you should mention a wade because i thought that you know we had such a good time on the last one i would call this one and just like as a as a cum le ta what is the phrase what are you trying to say not a coup d'etat like an olive branch what's the phrase for that uh an olive branch a whom lay da you know uh uh you know it's kind of got that cadence to it uh i i olive branch an entente you know you got some mouth diarrhea going on so what are you trying to say what's your olive

branch just fucking laid out i don't speak french anyway welcome to wade wins part two uh-oh what no nothing nothing i believe you it's gonna be different it's gonna be different i do i do all my episodes differently god damn it man you know people already know how it ends but people don't know how it's gonna begin no one knows how it ends right right wink i'm gonna go ahead and say I think that one of the competitors really showcased their strength in the small talk. And this entire thing, I had it written down, was the winner shall be declared by small talk. And I wanted to see what would happen if a winner was declared at the beginning of the episode as opposed to the end of the episode. I'm feeling good about this. So it's called Wade Wins, and it's based on the small talk of which you gave me a Stanley Cup.

No, no, I wouldn't give you one because... He was warning you about Stanley Cups, Wade. No, no, no, it's fine. I get it. So who won small talk? Can this be the shortest episode in fucking distractible history? Can we just go ahead and name the winner, who is definitely me, based on the title? I mean, probably.

That's what I would assume. Probably. You know, but I don't like your sass. I think you're giving me a lot of lip. Doesn't matter. Wade wins the episode. So it doesn't matter what my sass is. My small talk is all that mattered, right?

That'd be pretty good. I'm feeling better and better as this goes on. I'm going to talk real small. See? A great small talk. Top tier, even. Technically, talking like this would be talking small. That's a great...

You gotta open your mouth real small small that's how you talk small oh okay this is what you're saying you weren't trying to get an irish accent you were just talking small yeah i'm just doing i'm talking small i'm doing it what you did but better yeah get him bob this is actual actual moment of speechlessness from w. I've had a few lately. A thing that just so rarely happens. I'm going to put my small stick on my small lips for this small talk. All right. Well, Mark, so you're going to declare a winner.

That's where we are. You know, he seems he thinks it's so unfair. Maybe I should give him one last chance to fill the small talk. I think seven minute episode is what the viewers want. Wade, if there's any last minute entries into your life that has occurred now's the time i did get something i didn't get anything all right i'll declare bob you win hold on you want to see what it is right here like that okay yeah that's fair you win the episode bob i didn't even get to chase the show and you're like bob you win seriously bob you win i didn't even catch it till just now that you're like wait you have one more fucking chance bob you win you know what you were gonna do you're fucking with me you were fucking

with me okay that's funny ha ha ha you were fucking with me trying to like oh i got a present oh oh i got two presents over here oh well yeah all right listen this is a very fair thing just because you didn't realize that the judgment round was so early on you're serious yeah do i get my winner speech now or is that at the end you give half of it now half of it at the end because there's there's there's an actual episode to get through oh okay what's the rest of the episode no no bob handshake deal in effect right now okay uh not the last episode but the one like three episodes ago no i'm i'm i remember now how many wait how many hands if you win now and this is your time to shine it's no handshake deals in

effect so what is that what is that cause to happen right now i guess what do you want to happen from that mark uh cards on the table i offered wade out of pity because i felt real bad for him i offered way to handshake deal where he owes me a meal he's gonna buy me a meal and when he triggers it at any point every win that i have gotten since we made the deal immediately becomes his so theoretically wade just triggered the deal and just gained three wins and i lost three wins for whoever on the subreddit is tracking that still does that mean that you win now now yes okay does that mean mark still does his episode? He does his outro, I guess. That's it. Wait.

No, but I... Say goodbye. You're usurping the host is what you're doing with this right now. If this was the end of his episode, then yeah, this is my episode now. Well, no, it wasn't the end. It was... You declared a winner, so a winner speech. Thank you, Mark, for a great win. I appreciate that.

Bob, you get your loser speech. Oh, well... Fuck you, Mark. This is mine now. In fact, you don't even get the host. As the winner, declared winner, I'm enacting fuck you rule number Wade wins, and I'm taking the fuck over, and this is mine now. I don't want an

eight-minute episode, a nine-minute episode. I want my episode. I've got speech. I've got an episode idea. Hold on. Speech? What do you mean, speech? Loser speech. You lost. Oh. Mark, you lost your hosting duty speech. Okay.

I felt like I put up a good fight in that previous Now episode, and it feels good having had a chance right now then. It feels great, doesn't it? But, you know, all good things come to an end, I guess. And so, congratulations to the rightful winner, which is Was Wade now then. Thank you. So if he stole... If you question it one more time,

I'm stealing yours. I don't think that's how that works. I don't think he can do that. Well, if he's host, I think he can do whatever he wants. A handshake with the host? That's me. Yep, I agree. Yeah, no, I would I would maybe not push him on that one. Who makes the rules?

The host does. Be very careful. You're in a trip-tip-a-dip-a-dis spot right now. Oh, I'm sorry, what? You know what? Let's play Bob's game. Define trip-tip-a-dip-a-dis. First word comes to mind. Well, the point of the game wasn't to define it. False! You got it wrong. Points to mind. Well, the point of the game wasn't to define it. False! You got it wrong! Points to Wade!

Hey, my game was very fair. Yep, so is mine! I'm just saying that it doesn't seem like retroactive. Fair's in the eye of the beholder and I'm the beholder, so I get to decide what's fair. Wade beholds. I didn't end the episode, so

What ends the episode? What do you have to say to end the episode Well you say podcast Out and then that Thanks you just said it my episode now appreciate that You kind of walked right into that one I gotta be honest Great speech Alright everybody welcome to my episode Hope you're all having a fantastic day I'm done with the bullshit

Wade wins you know And retroactively I did Wait so this but this will be posted as one episode is it still going to be called wade wins again or whatever you know what it's gonna be called wade wi and then just fucking spam some letters on the keyboard because everything after this is chaos i don't even know what's gonna happen i have scribbled markings of a madman including burlesque still on my sheet because i haven't even changed sheets since then i've got an idea

and you know what what's the last episode you guys actually declared me a winner was that i'm gonna get a notebook out so i'm ready for this uh you hosted wade's widow philosophy corner yes okay you know what i'm ready to host i was prepared for this eventually wasn't just rage uh wade's philosophy corner part two you know what we won't it that, but that's what's happening. Another Wade's Widow Philosophy Hour. Wade Wins Corner Part 2. Hang on. Wait.

Hold on. I'm pretty sure we're way past wait, Mark. I don't... What's wrong, man? You already... You said the episode ended. What's up? Uh, you didn't... Merch?

Nope. Edit that out. Wade can't ask questions. We don't have... We don't have any. So it's kind of a joke. That's not the point. The point is it's my moment. Just't ask questions we don't have we don't have any so it's it's kind of a joke that's not the point the point is that's my moment just like the winning is my moment and now i'm back on top and i'm staying here for a while so get comfortable all i have to ask is it still

my wins are still valid oh yeah i didn't know i couldn't offer to take things away from you all right if you're questioning it the answer is already no it wasn't questioning it just confirming okay good you actually gave me an idea mark thanks. Thanks. I'm going to save that one. I don't like that very much. I don't like any of this very much. I just want to say, Wade, you're welcome for giving me the deal that has

led us to this place, and also you're welcome for the wins. Thanks, Bob. You know what? Points. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'll give you 10 points per win you gave me, which is what? 3? 30 points. I think that's right. Mark, you want to give up any wins for points nope i but i just want to say i technically laid the groundwork for that handshake to happen sure you know what mark one point for laying the groundwork all right cool good good great got it marked it down great you know what let's let's let's just talk about some philosophy, right? Let's talk about winning.

What is winning, guys? What is winning to you? We're not going to do small talk? We did small talk. It was small. Yeah, Wade talked about his Stanley Cups. No, that was my episode. That was my episode.

I'm just saying, like, if I... You can't just take my episode's content and attach it to yours. It's my episode's content. I don't know about that. My win was still valid, therefore... Let's talk about winning, guys. What is winning? episodes content and attach it to yours it's my episodes content i don't know about that my win was still valid therefore let's talk about winning guys what is winning winning is what i do every week all right winning is what mark does every week every week and what does that mean uh means i win it's like that song all he does is win win win no matter what when i'm on top physically or just like in a ranking system

all of the above because i'm on top of all the ranking systems okay so winning defined by mark is what he does every week by being on top that's it no that sounds correct bob give me a good answer please um winning is when i admire how good of an episode w Wade is hosting and I just revel in it and I enjoy every moment of it and then and at the end I win because I was nice to him because he likes me now yeah both of your answers I enjoy the fact that Mark's winning winning to Mark is when he is on top and winning Bob says when I enjoy Wade but it but both of them started with you you two winning involved both of you that's what's interesting to note well you know what winning starts with the w and you know what else starts with w oh please kiss it kiss my giant ass right now

wednesday and the netflix series wednesday was starring jenny ortega yes an excellent series very funny the dance was good I haven't seen it. Okay. Well, you know what else starts with W? Wind. Feeling the wind in your hair. I was going to say Wade, but I like Mark's answer better. That's winning.

Makes sense. Okay. All right. We have our definition of winning, everyone. Is this a philosophical definition of winning or like a dictionary definition? You know, it was supposed to be more philosophical. And I think you guys gave me some philosophy right there. I learned your philosophies are very you-centric.

That's good to know. We had the moral episode where we went over morals, right? And we talked about cannibalism was a big topic for most of the episode. Sure, sure. Based on our discussions of morality, if we can recall, do either of you think immorality is ever justified? Or if you're utilitarian, I suppose that you would say like doing an immoral act is justified if the end result is more moral. Do you adopt that phrase

of morality utilitarianism? Or do you think that an immoral act should never be done even if the end result is maybe more moral? I guess maybe I'm stretching something here. But the way that I see it, immoral versus moral is, it could be prescriptive. I guess what I was going to say, I'll say it and I'm already changing my mind, I think, but I'll say what I was going to say. That's a descriptive thing, right? Something is moral or immoral based on analyzing it in the context of when it was done or when it might be done, I guess. But like, it feels like that happens after to me. That doesn't feel as important in terms of whether it's justified or not. I feel like there are

plenty of times where something may be deemed an immoral action, especially after the fact. Still, if you look at it in context as to what happened, it was justified as an action and also it could be an immoral action. It is or is not justified because it is or is not moral. There are plenty of actions that would be moral that I think are not justified because although they may be moral by a general judgment in a context that's more specific, it's like it's moral, but it's rude or it's moral, but it would be frowned upon or it's moral, but you have other choices you could make. You don't have to do that just because it's the moral choice.

There are plenty of choices and one moral choice is not equivalent to another. You might choose to make a different choice because of your friendship with someone or your personal relationship or because of a desired outcome that has indirect outcomes or indirect benefits or something. They don't seem inherently linked to me. Something could be immoral and justified or moral and unjustified or any combination of those things okay mark go ahead yes uh so it's like what bob was saying morality and amorality is a descriptor often taken like either before you know when you're planning or after the fact after the deed is done the the true driver of action oftentimes is necessity morality is like

and the desire for definitions of it come from a perspective of humans wanting to separate themselves from like the rest of like the animal kingdom in terms of like okay well a uh you know animals kill to survive and that's a necessity it's like morality doesn't even play into there but we as civil you know civilization have to have certain standards and rules and stuff like that and that probably is one of those ethical pillars that you were talking about but it's like it often is yeah it's like amoral actions can be justified if the need is there for that action to occur because in my world like humans aren't as far removed from the natural order of things as they would like to be and a lot of things just come down to definition and

personal preference okay so utilitarians kind of think the way that you guys I think are proposing where you don't judge an act until afterward and you see what overall the outcome was. However, Kant and deontology have universal laws or moral laws where killing is wrong. So let's say the trolley problem, you pull the lever to kill one old man who will die of old age tomorrow to save 500 kindergartners. Killing that old man was still wrong because you're killing an old man. You're killing someone because you can't universalize killing people. So there are different moral laws of looking at it, but you guys are approaching this from a, well, let's wait and see what the overall outcome was. My thing is, I'm not saying that you can't assess

morality prior to action being taken, but the meaningfulness of the judgment of is is something that you intend to do moral or immoral doesn't actually mean anything until it happens because you are you have information in your mind. I'm going to do this for these reasons. And this is this is like the reality. Right. But if you don't have all the information, some action that you judge to be moral prior to doing it could turn out to be immoral because you didn't know some important piece of information. Like, it's totally

moral for me to chop down this tree. I need to build a home. I need this wood. You know, we're doing it responsibly. It's a moral decision. Oh, actually, well, there's a human being living in that tree that I couldn't see because they were like, whatever, you know, this is arbitrary nonsense, but like it could change, right? Until the actions take place in a reality and there are a set of facts that are concrete, you're guessing what I'm going to do is moral or is not moral. It is not real. And so you don't know what the actual facts of what happened are until after you do it. But like, yes, you can assess if something is moral prior to it happening. And if everything goes exactly as you planned and all the information you had was accurate,

then probably you're correct. But like, it just doesn't mean as much to me, I guess. I don't know. So you should go in pre-planning to try to do moral acts on the fly if ultimately you have to do something slightly immoral to do something better than that a moral act is more justified. Yes. It could also just be that you accidentally do something incredibly immoral to do something better than that immoral act is more justified. Yes. It could also just be that you accidentally do something incredibly immoral and you didn't

mean to, and it's a bad outcome. That's not you choosing to do something immoral. That's bad things happening. I have a question. Wait, are you having us define this because you plan on doing something very immoral to anyone who you feel has persecuted you? My plans are neither here nor there. Where are they?

Somewhere else. Where they need to be. Can we just have a little philosophical talk without there being ulterior motives? Maybe you plan episodes called Wade Wins just in fact to not have me win twice. Well. But that doesn't mean we're all assholes, Mark. I'm participating. I feel like that's not very Kantian of you.

Oh, sorry. Was that immoral of me to say? That sounds very Blontian. You know what I mean? Just call, you can't call someone an asshole. That's very amoral. Amoral.

Immoral. I mean, it probably is amoral. It was without regard to morals. So I think you're right. I can't believe it. Good pun, Bob.

Thank you. So let's be clear. When it comes to shipping internationally, can I provide trade documents electronically? Mm-hmm. The answer is FedEx. Okay. But what about estimating duties and taxes on my shipments?

How do I find all the... Also FedEx. Impressive. Is there a regulatory specialist I can ask about? FedEx. Oh. But let's say that... FedEx.

What a... FedEx. Thanks. No more questions. Always your answer for international that... FedEx. What? FedEx. Thanks. No more questions. Always your answer for international shipping. FedEx, where now meets next. This episode is brought to you by Secret. Secret deodorant gives you 72 hours of clinically proven odor protection,

free of aluminum, parabens, dyes, talc, and baking soda. It's made with pH-balancing minerals and crafted with skin-conditioning oils. So whether you're going for a run or just running late, do what life throws your way and smell like you didn't. Find Secret at your nearest Walmart or Shoppers Drug Mart today. Okay, Mark, let's move on to a different topic then let's um let's differentiate acquaintances from friends from family what makes someone family what makes someone a friend what makes someone an acquaintance uh-oh we need that stranger in there what makes someone a stranger which i think is easy to define but we can throw it in there okay you got your strangers people you

haven't met that's pretty simple to define okay haven't met in any case could you have like seen them online you've seen their face before or is a stranger someone you've never encountered in any way uh i'd say even if you've seen their face and you're familiar with them they're technically a stranger because you're a stranger to them so like acquaintance kind of implies like there's a duality to it like you're acquainted with each other you at least have talked or know each other's names or something you can't meet and become an acquaintance kind of implies like there's a duality to it like you're acquainted with each other you at least have talked or know each other's names or something you can't meet and become an acquaintance with from a one-sided perspective so that's where like you know the the online thing is like you you can technically meet online but if it's one-sided and it's very

uh what's the term parasocial you can you can have the perception that you're not strangers but in reality you still are until meeting occurs how much information gets you from stranger to acquaintance hello i'm any information at all like a conversation in exchange of names is enough i think you need a meeting and a label like humans need to contextualize things so you gotta like handshake i'm and you say your name i think that's acquaintance okay what if you're in a classroom and the teacher does like a roll call where everyone says hello in their name? Are you then an acquaintance with everyone in that classroom? I think so.

If you stand up and go like, hello, everyone, I'm and if everyone's doing that, then everyone is acquainted with each other. If you just stand up and say your name and sit back down, you're not an acquaintance because there was no greeting. Yeah, I think so. Bob, do you agree or disagree so far? Do you have anything else to add to this? I think that's fine in a game of creating arbitrary distinctions in a world where it's

all much more shades of gray than that. I think that's a fair way to say what an acquaintance is. Okay. Personally, I would feel less like there are levels of acquaintance. And in the classroom situation, I would feel less like an acquaintance with everyone in that class than I would if I met someone and we were introduced and it was like, hey, my name's whatever. I'm related to this person, right? Like I'm someone's partner or I'm I work at this place, which is like, oh, OK, you have like more connection. But that's the absolute bare minimum. I'm with Mark. That's the floor of possible acquaintanceship.

Yeah, I think I'm OK with that. Bob will stay with you then. What is the of possible acquaintanceship yeah i think i'm okay with that um bob will stay with you then what is the ceiling of acquaintanceship before you can become a friend or is friend even the next step is there something else in between i don't know what to call it other than i i guess i would define it as because i don't have another word for it let's go acquaintance friend and then like close friends okay i would say to get from acquaintance to friend would be very tough to judge. It would be like you're connected enough where if I were to out of the blue

send you a text or call you and be like, hey, do you want to go get lunch? That that wouldn't be off-putting. That comes at different points with different people. But I've met people like Ryan, who I stream with all the time. I met him at E3 and we hung out at parties at E3. Like we had a Twitch party and some stuff where you can't really talk, right? It's not like we had deep personal talks, but we were like talking about what we did and what we're interested in. And after E3, I spent a couple of days kind of in and around his orbit. He messaged me and was like,

we should stream. You want to stream? And I was immediately like, yeah, we talked about doing that. Like, we barely know each other, but you seemed cool. I feel like we're acquainted enough where that's comfortable to me. And so it's subjective because it's different with every person and who like who they are to you in context. But I think that's the barrier for me. If someone reached out and was like, hey, we should hang out.

And I was like, oh, really? I mean, you know, I might still say yes, but I was kind of like, oh, I didn't. Oh, yeah. I mean, sure, we could. I would say they're more of an acquaintance who's like trying to push to be a friend. Maybe that maybe, you know, they think we would have a good time or something. But that's the line for me. And it's really hard to judge that. And it feels like a terrible rule. But that's what I'm going with. Mark, how do you feel about that? Are you just setting us up for definitions of friendship so you can be like, by definition, you're not our friends because friends wouldn't do this to each other and things like that? You are very skeptical of every question I'm asking.

Look, I'm just trying to contextualize it. I also mentioned the word family as one of the words we can talk about. Is that because I don't think you're my family or maybe because I think you are? Or maybe I'm just having a fucking philosophical discussion here. i would take it at face value mark i wouldn't look any deeper this is probably fine okay yeah because yeah definitely the extenuating circumstances don't apply here and everything is on the open up no it's fine wait just have it a fun discussion i just want to host an episode again is that so wrong uh-huh no i mean no but uh-huh as in like continue and now i don't know if yes or no is uh the answer that i think it'll be both here's the

answer ceiling of acquaintanceship floor of friendship where do they meet right i think you know bob bob said it well it's when you can start basing presumptions off of the other person when you when you know them enough where you can like presume I can call them and ask them out to lunch or presume like, hey, we would probably you can extrapolate your relationship. I think it's like it's it's a weird way to define it. But it's like if you know each other enough that you can try and extrapolate like, OK, we would have fun together doing this and you can start to make plans for how you interact in the future. OK, so let me throw this out there and see if this is what you guys are basically saying. Acquaintanceship, you're in the same area and you communicate because you're in that area. Friendship is whenever you remove yourselves from that familiar place and want to spend

time with this person in another facet of your life. I think that's a good way to say it, yeah. Bob made the distinction of there possibly being another level of friendship. So family is interesting. We can go into family, but talk about friendship itself going from friend to close friend or best friend do you see a distinction there mark or is that just an arbitrary title for someone you're really close with is that another distinction we should make i think a close friend is someone who you would be willing to be inconvenienced by where a friend is like you make plans and you do it but

it's only when it's convenient for both of both of you a close friend is someone that you're like call them up me like i'm stranded an hour out of the city can you help and you go yes i will go dude doesn't matter what i'm doing i'm good that's close friend um and that could apply to like different levels of like what puts you to the point of willing to be inconvenienced just the bond that you share yeah just just the bond the the kind of like unspoken like early relationships are often like transactional you know you you do something for that you do that i'll pick up that tab but when it gets past that point where you're like okay we don't need to worry about the fairness of this relationship or the balance of it balance is unimportant because there's been enough points or whatever you call it, accrued on either side that you both can ignore the facet of like a

transactional relationship and more into the just like, hey, I respect you enough to put my own needs out of the way if you need something. And so long as that balance doesn't get taken advantage of, we can stop looking at the numbers and just to be there for each other and then it's unspoken so i i feel like that's a very technical way of saying something that is a very just a purely emotional thing whereas like it's a line that you don't know when it'll cross but it's like for oftentimes it'll just be like yeah most of my close friends i'd be like yeah i'd fly across the country in the same day if they needed something is there something higher than close friend to you? Is there best friend or is close friend like your group of best friends? There's probably different levels, but I'd say like if you're thinking best best friend,

that's someone you would die for. Okay. You would literally be willing to lose your own life because you value that person at that distinction. Bob, how do you feel about close friend and best friend distinctions? I generally agree. The thing I thought of that I can't think past is then their reaction tells me the answer to this question. If I contacted one of you guys and I was like, oh my God, guys, I think I ran over a pedestrian. Your response would probably be like, whoa, shit. Oh my God.

Okay. How can I help? Do you need something or whatever? Like you're, as I say, like we're close friends. Your response would be something like that. Whereas if I just met someone and we maybe hung out a little bit and we're like friends, but we're like just at the beginning of a friendship. And I texted this person. I was like, oh my God, I think I killed someone.

I ran over someone. They would be like, whoa. Well, you know, hey, whoa, Jesus, that's terrible. And they might be like hey can i help but they wouldn't like come help you bury the body i was thinking like help you find a good lawyer you mean help you bury the body okay gotcha whatever like it's that that response which is hard to put rules on for me but like there's a line where it crosses over from like hey we're friends but that sounds like you're a problem to like oh we, we're close friends. Like, I'll help you fix whatever this is. Right. I'll help you. Do you need an ambulance? Whatever

you need to ride. It's I feel like that's similar to what Mark said. Like I will they will inconvenience themselves because they know you are in trouble and their response will be different than a friend who might be like, that sounds awful. I'm busy. Like, I hope it turns out OK. Sorry. And do you see close friend and best friend having a distinction? Or do you think that they're just levels of close friend? Yeah, I don't think there's a meaningful difference in terms of like where your relationship is. It's just like level of bond. You could become someone's best friend very, very quickly.

But like, it's I feel like that's something that just grows. If you remain good friends for long enough, you might eventually become best friends because you've just spent through much so much shit and you know each other. Can a friend or can a person that is not related to you ever become family? Or is that just another term for close friend or best friend? You say like you're my brother or you're my sister or whatever have you because of your closeness, but really, you know, family by definition is blood or how do you see family tying in? Am I going on this one? Yeah, sure. You can leave it off. That's fine. Whoever. I do not think family has...

Well, can I say there's types of family? I'm not going to say that you're not family with someone who you're related to by blood. I think that is family. But I don't think that you're inherently in someone's family circle just because of blood relation. I think it's possible to lose that. I think if you're blood related you probably are unless some terrible things have happened between you and this person you probably are in a family

circle right like people have uh like family members who who have troubles who have done bad things to them or the family or whatever and it's like you don't just get kicked out of a family because you have a problem or because of one thing that happened but it's possible to be such a bad person or to make so many bad choices that like you suddenly, you know, maybe you're, this is a common thing, is that children of older parents who are like our generation and younger, I feel like, are starting to go no contact with family members who have treated them poorly, who have been mentally or verbally abusive or otherwise been unfair or treated them like shit.

You don't just get to be family regardless of what you do. And I think the inverse is true is that if you're not blood related to someone, you can become family through the bond that you make with them and through your actions. And I guess Mark said this is kind of best friend territory, but I feel like family for me is like, I will do anything for you that needs to be done. It does not matter the level of inconvenience for me. If we are family, if you are in my family and you need something, I will do what I can to make it happen. Unless it's literally outside of my capabilities, like that's family. You do what you have to do for family. So like

you can earn that, but you can also lose that. You can have blood relatives who are not in your family. So family to use is more of a title than a definition. You're not defined as family by blood. You're family whenever you're in that familial circle. Yes. Mark? Yeah, in a similar way. It's like a family.

You're born into a family and those are family by default. But especially now and forever, honestly, you don't have to keep those people in your life. Like it's totally valid to remove people from your family, your personal circle of family. There's definitely friends that I would consider family. The same thing. No question. Do whatever you can. And it's like, it's kind of like a black hole. There's an event horizon of like, you know, a crude loyalty. And then there's a certain like threshold where it's like, it don't matter. It would take like an ungodly huge event to break that bond. It's like, well, it's just that's it's solid and that's family.

So, yeah, that'd be pretty much similar to what he said. This isn't a thing where you're trying to make it seem like how, you know, you thought of us as like your family. as like your family and yet you felt so betrayed that you know you're trying to find the line of betrayal that you can do in return to illustrate how badly you feel betrayed i appreciate that you have such immense guilt that you're projecting every single thing i talk about into a way of things i'm justified redeeming myself after the treatment you've given me i do appreciate that but no this is just philosophical talk where I'm getting your guys answers to questions. Well, it's not really guilt.

What can I talk about that wouldn't be related? What about heroes? Can you twist that one? Is this because you think I'm your hero and you're like, I shouldn't have met my hero? No. Hey, it's okay, man. I'm here.

I'm a hero for you. I knew you before you were anyone's hero we were all zeros might still be but we definitely were back then no heroes so morality heroes and villains i suppose are heroes proponents of law or morals or something else we can talk about superheroes or just like people that are heroes like firefighters stuff like that superheroes don't exist okay you're just gonna shut that door wow they don't they don't they could no they can't mutations uh-uh captain america style scientific experiments.

Hypothetically, I don't care if it's superheroes or just people that we think of as heroes. Another word for hypothetical is make-em-ups. It's not real. Bob, I guess I'll start with you since Mark's refusing to participate. No, I'll participate. Mark doesn't think firefighters are real, so

I don't know what to do about him. You think a firefighter's a superhero? You got water jet men gooshing out and putting out the fire? No. There are instances of somebody, like firefighters walk into burning buildings to save people's lives. People consider them heroes, I think, in society. I said heroes are fine. I'm talking superheroes.

Either or. I don't care which we talk about. Are they heroes because of something they're doing that's morally good? Or is there something different that defines a hero? What makes them a hero? Oh, okay. I am realizing as I'm thinking through this that I might be a little cynical on heroes. Okay. Where I started and where I thought this was going was thinking about like personal heroes.

Like I feel like a lot of people might say like, oh, I have a, you know, I have a personal hero. I look up to this person. And that's not completely disconnected from what you're talking about. It's not look up to this person could be a part of it. I think the idea of heroes in general is stupid only in that anything that a person has done should reflect on who they are and how they're seen in society, but it should not preclude them from being judged on every subsequent thing that they have done. And this is a common theme, I guess, in movies that address this subject of heroes, that heroes are often fallible. Heroes often have

flaws, fatal flaws. I think the reality is no person is so inherently moral or inherently heroic, in whatever way we might define that, that like they deserve to just be revered as a hero for all time. It's certainly fair to celebrate heroic acts. People do heroic things that I feel like would be universally viewed as heroic because of bravery, because of whatever happened. But then once you get to celebrate that, beyond that, I don't think they continue to be a hero. It's not like I would, you know, disrespect someone who's done a bunch of heroic shit.

Like if you continue to save people from burning buildings, it sounds like you're pretty heroic. But if you then go on to do some shitty stuff, I don't care that you were a hero. You still get to be assessed on the measure of everything that you do. And doing good does not negate doing bad to me. So I guess I just don't like how hero-worshipy the idea of a hero seems to lean towards. It's fine to celebrate someone who's done something heroic, but that doesn't mean that they're infallible

and it doesn't mean they deserve to be worshipped like they are the gold standard of morality or heroism or bravery or whatever. Like they continue to demonstrate that. Great. If they change what their behavior is, they're not a hero. You know, I don't think anyone is necessarily a hero. I think you are a hero as long as you do heroic things.

And when you retire, you were a hero. And now you're just an old retired dude who's, you know, hopefully living a good life. I don't know. I guess I'm cynical on it. I don't like the worship that heroes get because I feel like humans get sucked into the idea of like, oh, I'm a hero so I can do what I want. That can cause people to make bad choices and think that they are above reproach in whatever they might do once they think they're a hero. As a boys watcher, I feel like you're describing Homelander very strongly

here. Yeah, no, I know. I haven't actually watched that, but I know that's sort of, that's what that show is about. You should watch it before. I haven't actually watched that, but I know that's sort of that's what that show is about. You should watch it before. I won't say anything else. You should watch it. It's good. Mark, how do you feel about the heroes? I feel like, yeah, it comes from the desire to be special. So because people want to be special and, you know, there's often like the I want a hero's death or I want to have my life have meaning. I want to save people. I want to be appreciated. By having these desires, it makes it a very real concept and people want to see it in others to know that it's possible. And therefore it's kind of like a feedback cycle of people want heroes to

exist because they want to feel special or they want to believe that heroes exist. So they try to see it everywhere. And it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's like, well, they did something that meets my qualification for being a hero. I don't know the rest of their life because we're strangers but that one action is enough heroes exist and that person's a hero and maybe someday i could be a hero too you know kind of like it feeds into itself and it's a collective society thing of like trying to elevate people um as opposed to you know it's easier to simplify and be like judge this person by this one action and don't look at anything else. Because oftentimes when you dive deeper, it's like, oh man, they're just a person.

And it kind of sets up false expectations where, you know, even if they're not a terrible human being, it's like you find one flaw and they're like, that's not what a hero would do. That's not what I would have done my entire life. And then throw them off the pedestal and like, where's our next hero? Put them up there. Wait a minute. You know, it kind of like thing. But yeah, I don't like hero worship either. Okay.

On the flip side, then let's look at villains. There's not really villain worship. Bob, you said something that made me think of this. You said, what is it? A negative act isn't completely countered by a heroic act. Is the inverse also true? Yes. If you're a villain and you do something good, does that good thing still deserve to be praised? Even if overall you're a villain and you do something good is that good thing still deserve

to be praised even if overall you're a villain yes it's hard to separate the hero villain stuff from like feeling like news cycles right the news is always one thing or the next thing the one thing is like oh today you're a villain and then the next thing happens it's like oh well today you're a hero and that's all you are i don't think that that's true. I don't think, in the same way that I don't think heroes should be worshipped, someone who's a villain in the world, who's done a lot of bad things, enough that someone would assess them to be a villain, is not immediately redeemed because they do one good thing. Even if it's one insanely good thing. It's a judgment of the trends of what you do as a person, right?

If what you do is generally bad, but you do a good thing, the trend is still true. You're still probably kind of a villain, especially if you continue to go on and do other bad things. If what you do is generally good, you know, maybe you do a lot of heroic stuff. You don't do exclusively heroic stuff, but like the trend is true. You're a heroic person, but you're still just a person. In the same way, you could be a villainous person. You are still just a person, but if you want to be redeemed, and there are a lot of context in the public eye, in the eyes of your friends or family, if you want to be redeemed, it takes more than just like one thing. You have to show that there's a trend that, you know, I did a lot of bad stuff.

That trend has changed now. I'm making better choices than I used to make. I'm doing better things for in whatever context it is that you're caring about. And so I don't think anyone is a villain that's unredeemable, barring maybe there are edge cases of that, where there are things maybe that have been done by people that I would find it hard to redeem them for. But like in normal life with normal humans who aren't, you know, committing acts of war crimes or things like this.

Like it's not one or the other. And it's about the trend. Okay. Mark, are you trying to define villainy because you think that someone here might be adhering to the definition of what a villain could be? And you want to hear them define it with their own words so that you could, you could spin this around on that person and be like by

your own definition aren't you a villain and if that is the case i think the villains are just misunderstood heroes and in all actuality there are no villains except for hitler you know people should be more forgiving hitler no no except that's the exception oh okay that's the exception gotcha okay that's the exception because i was gonna make a great mark t-shirt that's gonna sell but i guess i won't no no no no no no no no no well mark yes you caught on to me i knew it kind of i guess i don't know let me look at mark's skepticism of things we've talked about what do we start with what is winning winning was Winning was very I-centric. Winning is coming out on top or being on top.

Winning is beating the competition. What was our next one? Is immorality ever justified? It can be, depending on your views of morals, because things can change and adapt as things go on. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these. That sounds like something that got said. Those are Mark's things?

No, these are just group collectives. These are things that we kind of agreed on. OK, yeah. Acquaintance at the bare minimum are introduced and greet. So you have a title and at least an exchange of words of some kind. Friend is someone you'd be willing to spend time with away from your place of acquaintanceship, whether that's away from the Internet or away from your school or away from work, whether it's a text, a phone call, a hangout.

If it goes beyond just like work, then you can be a friend. Close friend is someone you want to be inconvenienced by. Best friend, family, whatever title you want to give it, someone you would literally die for. Heroes should be more so defined by heroic acts and praise for heroic acts or general goodness. However, that doesn't wipe away the bad things they do. Villains, again, should be judged on the general amount the bad things they do villains again should be judged on the general amount of bad things they have done however heroic acts by villains are still praised

worthy because they are none of themselves still good acts and i think that got us to where we are right now so everything's good uh bob you had 30 points at the start Mark you had one I feel like we've all Worked pretty well together Not too much competition it was more so we were working To define things and you guys generally agreed with each other On a lot of things did you guys really disagree with each other At all no not really no Not a ton based on that

I mean Bob you had the overwhelming amount Of points to start with and it seems like you guys Have been pretty agreeable I don't feel very good about that. The history of the last few episodes of you guys been agreeing a lot that everyone but Wade wins and continue with that trend. I'm going to find someone I agree with,

and that is me. And I agree that I should host again. So you know what? I think I'm the winner based on this episode. Winning starts with I, and I win. I don't think winning starts with I. Winning starts with a W w whose name here has a w bob mark wade and you know what i would literally die for me i'm my best friend my middle name has

it is ed ward i have a lot of m's in my name which if you put them upside down so does mark he's got the m at the start these are good arguments these good arguments. How about is immorality ever justified? Let's see. I stole this episode and Bob's wins. And I'm stealing another win by giving it to myself because you two were dickish for several episodes and took my time away from me. And I think that in order to redeem myself and my time, I deserve to host again.

And if I remember right, Mark went on a streak of declaring himself the winner and i think fair is fair and as the host i win and i'm not gonna be taking any more questions do you two have loser speeches well okay the you see villain i want to say straight up bob he said he wouldn't make any loser speeches this year yeah that's true great you can speak on his behalf then you can make two mark well i guess i was gonna say i'll be the hero and i'm sorry you mad that the judge was speaking no i was gonna say like i'm gonna be the hero and i'll do two i literally was about to say that so you kind of like but you should still be judging your villainous acts which is depriving

me of wins so go on and then say your heroic speech of loss i don't feel like he's actually interested in your speech at all mark i have to be honest i'm very interested no please go on and then say your heroic speech of loss. I don't feel like he's actually interested in your speech at all, Mark. I have to be honest. I'm very interested. No, please go on. I'll just be over here. Go for it. All right. This is for both of us, Bob.

Okay. Hear ye, hear ye, proud and bold. Though we stood at the top, the pinnacle, the mountaintop that was glory. We have fallen not for our own faults, not for our own ills, but for the power of nature and the very likely worst person casting lightning bolts from on high. We touched the heavens. The heavens farted in our eyes. The end. Oh, great job. Two points, Bob points bob hey wait a minute okay thanks you're welcome

yeah great episode you guys good philosophy talk can't wait to host the next one where we'll do something else but uh it was nice to get more good deep discussions and i hope everyone out there now knows why i deserve to win another episode i just want to say i think you set this up mark by creating the precedent where you just made yourself win a bunch. What? He called an episode Bob wins that you lost, and he called an episode Wade wins where I lost. I think this, Mark may have set all these precedents.

Mark did all of this. Look, I want to say something. Uh-huh. Bob, do you want to define that uh that's the sound that the toilet makes when it's successfully plunged mark you're a dirty toilet needs to be plunged all right well we've got our answers to everything we need here great loser speech mark uh points to me winner me i'll be hosting the next one thank you me you're. You're welcome, me. Merch? Nope, probably not. We'll find out. But until the next time where I will host a great episode, podcast

out. Oh yeah, you can find them somewhere. Mark and Friends, Bob, Icegum, whatever. Podcast really out.