Do Go On - 105 - The Sodder Children Disappearance

Episode Date: October 25, 2017

On Christmas Eve, 1945, a fire consumed the Sodder family home, including five of the nine Sodder children (do they know what was causing it? ..... Sorry, bad taste) However, no remains were ever found. Did the children perish in the fire? Or something much more sinister?Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPodTwitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail]  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serengy Amarna 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. Welcome to another episode of DoGo On. My name is Dave Warnocky and I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart.

Hello, Dave Warnocky. Hello, Matt Stewart. Hello, Jess Perkins. Oh, very good. Hello, Jess Perkins. I felt weird if I didn't say hi to everybody. That's true. You did do that.

Including yourself. Well, otherwise, it's going to be strange. How weird would that be? Anyway. Anyway. How are we? We are good. Well, I'm good. Matt, you good? I'm all right. Yeah, I'm pretty good.

We just had a little falafel. Yeah, had a big falafel, really. That's fucking huge. Delicious. I had a P-Dade. Possibly pied. I was embarrassed about how to say it. Yep. And she judged you regardless. Yeah. I kind of pointed to the menu whilst whispering what I want to. Hello. Can I please have a piece. her? She went, yeah, I've got it.

Yeah, I said, you are good at your job, madam, thank you very much. It was delicious, it was delicious. So we're having a good day. We're having a bloody great day. Hey, shall I get on to the topic? Yes, let's get into the topic. J.P., it is your turn to report on a topic that Matt and I don't know what it is, and we always start with a question. And I predict you have not written one. I have not written one. God's right.

But this is a topic that I'd never heard of, and so my question is just going to be... Have you heard of? Yeah. Do you Gentleman, no Do you remember When we were We were young and innocent then

Oh, were you in for two different songs, didn't you? Yeah, we were with Earthwind and Fire Do you remember the 21st? Oh, okay, wow Remember the time Oh yeah, gotcha, yep The film clip with Eddie Murphy I went for about 15 minutes

Do you reckon I can ask the question? No, okay Certainly not Keep talking about Michael Jackson then Okay, well, born in Gary, Indiana. Woo! Love you, Gary. We've had multiple messages telling us to steer clear of Gary,

which makes me want to go there even. I know, maybe that's what they're trying to do. Stay away from out the gold bars that everyone gets to once... They're treating Gary mean, and they're keeping us keen. Yeah, that's how it works. That is working. It's working. Anyway, do you know what happened to the Soda children?

Oh, sodder Soda Soda Soda Soda I'm guessing it's real good Yeah they went to a theme park

One a million dollars At the theme park Went to Gary Indiana Had a great time I'm gonna tell you this story About a time When some kids went to Disneyland Oh that's all right

Was it you and I in 1990s Had a lovely day And that'll be my report It's gonna be really fun This is not gonna be good And then they went on The T-Cup ride And then they went on

And then they had a break And then they lined up and got a nice cold drink And then they went on Yeah The terrifying part of that story was they lined up for a drink That is harrowing I imagine spending your day at Disneyland And lining up for a drink

That's not where you go to Disney No, thank you Anyway, shall I tell you about the Soda family I personally have not heard of them Matt No, I haven't heard of them This was suggested by Frank Taylor On Twitter So thank you Frank

and it's an interesting story. Should we say that maybe this week is a little bit Halloweeny? Yes. Oh yeah, you were going to do a Halloween topic. We talked about this last week off air, obviously. We said that maybe you do something for Halloween, which makes me probably Matt to worry what's going to happen to the sort of children. Well, yeah, I was looking for something,

I was thinking like I'll do a murdery kind of topic or I'll do like a... They went on like a scary rides. They went on a scary ride. The time the Soda children went on a roller coaster. They gave me chills when he said that. Horror ride. Did it? Is it just the whispering?

Yeah, I think it's just the whispering. Okay, cool. Well, good to know. I'll do that a bit through the episode then, I reckon. So, let's start with the patriarch of the family, George Soda. And he was born, Giorio Sodu in Sardinia in Italy in 1895. Beautifully, sir. Thank you.

He immigrated to the United States when he was 13, with his older brother. and for the rest of his life, George Soda, as he came to be known, would not talk much about why he had left his homeland in the first place. He eventually found work on the railroads in Pennsylvania, carrying water and other supplies to workers. Next all to Ohio. Go, penguins. For years, after a few years, he took more permanent work in Smithers, West Virginia,

as a driver. And after a few more years after that, he started his own trucking company, at first hauling dirt to construction sites and later hauling coal. that was mined in that area. And it was in West Virginia that he met Jenny, Jenny Kipriani, probably Cypriani. Beautiful, he said. Whatever.

Storekeeper's daughter, who had also come to the US from Italy as a child. And they got married and they settled outside nearby Fayetteville, which had a large population of Italian immigrants in a two-story timber frame house that was two miles north of the town. So just out of the town. In 1923 they had the first of their ten children

Just let me ask you one question Yeah What did they call that child? John And do they know what was causing it? Fucking Fucking. Two-part answer to your two-part question

John and sex Oh Which question has which answer? Do they know what was causing it? John? What do they call their first child sex? They named it first child sex, yes. It's a catchy name.

I like that. Sex Stewart. Sex Steward. Sex Perkins. Sex Perkins. That's good. You should definitely rename yourself. I don't think I will.

I don't think I will, but thank you so much for this. I don't know, you know, but sex is pretty popular. What do you mean? Sex is really popular with young people. How? You can connect sexually. Oh, I don't want to connect sexually. Sex Warnocky.

Nah, that's scary. You sound like, yeah. You sound like a criminal. That's real dumb. Sex Warnockie. Sex Warnocky. Imagine a sex war. Ooh.

Yeah, we had two different reactions there. Anyway, so they had their first child, and George's business started to do really well, and they became quite a respected middle-class family in that community. However, George had strong opinions about many subjects. He was an opinionated guy, and he was not shy about expressing them, who sometimes this kind of alienated other people.

In particular, he was very against... He opposed Italian dictator Mussolini. Okay. He's really his, he was... Anti. He was anti-Musolini. Okay. And that led to some strong arguments with other members of the community, who, you know...

Who were pro. Who were pro and supported Mussolini. I'm saying it like Musso. Musso. Musolini. Like the van company. Muso. The truck and van company, Muso.

The last of the Soda children, Sylvia, was born in 1943. and by then their oldest son, Joe, I said John before, sorry, Joe. Oh, his name wasn't sex. Joe was causing it. Joe was causing it. I feel like he was John. No, no, Joe. He called him Joe.

How many years in between, do you reckon, vaguely? Well, Joe's in the war and Sylvia's a baby, so it's quite a span. He had left home to serve in the military during World War II. For America? Yes. They're American children. Like, the kids are all born in the States, obviously. Now, the Sotter celebrated on Christmas Eve, 1945,

are celebrating Christmas. Marion, the oldest daughter, had been working at the dime store in downtown Fayetteville, and she surprised three of her younger sisters, Martha, who was 12, Jenny, 8, and Betty 5, with new toys she'd bought for them as gifts, which was really nice. She'd been saving up a little bit of money and bought her little sisters some presents. The younger children were so excited and they asked their mother

if they could stay out past their bedtime so they could play with their new toys. at 10pm Jenny, the mother, told them that they could stay up a little later as long as the two oldest boys who were still awake, 14-year-old Maurice and his 9-year-old brother Louis, remembered to put the cows in and feed the chickens before going to bed themselves. Right, okay, sorry.

So they're farming. Yeah, they're in like a... For some reason I'm imagining them in the city and then like they're in an apartment and then suddenly they're bringing in the girls and chickens in and I was like, they're two miles out of the town. They're on like a bit of land. Not a huge, not a main big farm,

but they've got like a few animals and stuff. What do you reckon these 1945 toys are? Imagine being so excited by like a wooden block or something that you've got to stay up late. Yeah, play with the stick. But it's painted red or something. Yeah. It's a red stick. Get off your high horse there, mate.

Okay? These kids were happy with their painted sticks. They're happy with a red stick. Yeah, have a brick and use your imagination. Red stick, red brick. God, kids these days. Brick and stick. I remember that game.

Yeah. You loved it. I did love it as a kid. You talk about brick and stick all the time. I do. And now here you are, being Judgy McJudgeson. Look, I was trying to fit in with you cool young kids. No, right.

Come on. I took the wrong path. Dave, sorry about him. Don't worry about him. Anyway, I'll go on. Please do. So, yeah, she said, all right, you can stay up a bit later, but the boys have to put, you know, the animals away, and they agreed.

and her husband said George and the two oldest boys, John, who was 23, and George Jr., who was 16, they'd spent all day working with their father. They were exhausted, so they went to sleep. It's a John and a Joe. Well, this is confusing. And a George. Just John and Joe.

Okay, sorry, sorry. They bloody love the jean names, don't they? Yeah, Jenny, George, Joe, bloody Marion. They're all in there. After reminding the children of those chores, She was like, remember, put the cows and be good. So what she said, word for word. She took Sylvia, who was two, upstairs with her and went to bed herself.

The phone rang at about 12.30, and Jenny woke and went downstairs to answer the phone. It was a woman whose voice she didn't recognize, asking for a name she wasn't familiar with, with the sound of laughter and clinking glasses in the background. She told the call she'd reached the wrong number, later recalling the woman's weird. laugh. Ooh, prank call? Well, we don't know. She hung up and she went back to bed.

As she did, she noticed that the lights were still on and the curtains were not drawn in the living room. So she goes into the living room to see if the kids are still awake, assuming that's why all the lights are still on. Marion had fallen asleep on the living room cat, so Jenny assumed the other kids had just gone up to the attic where they all slept, they'd gone up to their bedroom. So she closed the curtains, turned out the lights and goes back to bed. About half an hour later at 1 a.m., Jenny was again awakened by the sound of an object

hitting the house's roof with a loud bang and then a rolling noise. Brick and stick. They were playing an outdoor game of brick and stick. Yeah, on the roof. She didn't hear anything else after that, so she went back to sleep. And about another half hour later, she woke up again smelling smoke. When she got up, she found that the room George used for his office was on fire. What?

She woke up George, and he in turn woke up the older sons, because they were all sleeping downstairs. Both parents and four of their children, so Marianne, and Sylvia, the baby, and the two older boys, John and George, they got out of the house and they frantically yelled to the children upstairs but heard no response. So they're in the attic? They're in the attic. They couldn't get up as the stairway itself was already a flame. Oh, no.

So the kids that are left are Maurice, who's 14, Martha, who's 12, Louis, who's 9, Jenny who's 8, and Betty, who's 5. Efforts to find aid and rescue the children were unexpectedly complicated. The phone didn't work, so Marion ran to a neighbour's neighbour's. house to call the fire department. But the phone, and a driver on the nearby road had also seen the flames and called from a nearby tavern. Both calls were unsuccessful either because they couldn't, they couldn't reach the, because neither

of them could reach an operator. So a neighbour has called from a tavern, can't get through to an operator. Marion's run to another neighbour's house to make the phone call, can't get through to an operator. That's weird. Very weird. George, who was barefoot, climbed the wall and broke open a, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, the attic window, cutting his arm quite seriously in the process. He and his sons intended to use a ladder to the attic to rescue the other children,

but it wasn't in its usual resting place against the house, and they couldn't find it anywhere nearby. Fuck. A water barrel that could have been used to extinguish the fire. They're like, okay, we'll get water and we'll get to the flame. It was frozen solid. They couldn't get to it at all. George then tried to pull both of the trucks he used in his business up to the house.

The intention was like he'd use them to climb up to the attic window, but neither of them would start, despite having worked previously, the previous day. What the fuck? So we can't get the cars to move either. Frustrated the six sodders who had escaped had no choice but to watch the house burn down and collapse over the next 45 minutes. Oh my God. A neighbour had actually driven into town to find the fire chief, his name was F.J. Morris, who initiated Fayetteville's version of a fire alarm, a phone tree system where one firefighter phoned another.

who phoned another. The fire department was only two and a half miles away, but the crew didn't arrive until 8 a.m. What time? Was that about 1? It was about 1.30, 2 o'clock, so six hours later. Oh, so the house is burnt to the ground. The house is, yeah, it was completely,

it was a smoking pile of ash by that stage. So, um... This phone tree system needs to be looked at. Yeah, it's not great. This is kind of weird, too. Chief, Chief Morris said the next day that, the already slow response was further hampered by his inability to drive the fire truck requiring that he wait until someone who could was available.

But there's no context as to why he couldn't drive it. Why a fire chief can't drive his truck? Yeah. I've got no idea why. Drunk? You think that in an emergency you'd be like, oh, fuck it, I'll try. There was a note that apparently like the firefighters, they were under-resourced as well because of the war,

so there was only, you didn't have like a full fleet of firefighters either and I think they're in a relatively small place. Now the firefighters, one of whom was a brother of Jenny's, the mum, could do little bit look through the ashes as they were left in the sodas basement. By 10am, Morris told the sodas that they had not found any bones, as might have been expected, if the other children had been in the house as it burned. According to another account, they did find a few bone fragments and internal organs but chose not to tell the family.

Nevertheless, Morris believed that the five children, unaccounted for, had died in the fire, suggesting it had been hot enough to burn their bodies completely. Jesus, I'm hoping that, because no one saw them go upstairs, right? No one seen them go upstairs and they were just told to go outside and get the cows or whatever, but no one definitely knows they went there, do they? Well, and you're not finding any bone. That's weird. There's no remains.

But, like they said, could be hot enough to burn it. Well, maybe. But I don't think the report would end. here if that was the case. Well. Halloween, I'm getting creeped out, Matt. I don't know about you. I'm getting creeped out of here. Matt's just sad at this stage.

I'm sure, yeah. I'm just sad. So this was in Christmas of 1945, right? In October of 1945, a couple months earlier, a visiting life insurance salesman, after being rebuffed, warned George that his house would go up in smoke and your

children are going to be destroyed. Oh. Which seems a little conspicuous. A strange way to describe that too. He attributed this all to the dirty remarks you've been making about Mussolini. Another visitor to the house, who was, I think, seeking, like, work, took the occasion to go around to the back and warn George that a pair of fuse boxes would cause a fire someday.

George was puzzled by this observation since he'd just had the house rewired and an electric stove was installed, and the local electric company had said afterwards that everything was fine. It was very safe. Who said that? Who threatened him with that? Just another visitor to the house. Oh.

Did he take it as a threat? Is that what you're thinking? No, he just sort of... He sort of's a strange thing to say. This particular person... So the life insurance salesman was kind of threatening. This guy was just kind of like, ah, I'd be careful.

That'll start a fire. And George was like, but it's just been checked and installed. That's fine. That's weird. But obviously, he kind of thought nothing of it at the time. But in retrospect, was like, hang on a second. In the weeks before Christmas that year,

his older son had noticed a strange car, parked along the main highway through town, its occupants watching the younger sodded children as they returned home from school. Now the fire chief told George to leave the site undisturbed so that the state's fire marshal's office could conduct a more thorough investigation. But after four days he and his wife could not bear the site anymore, so George bulldozed five feet of dirt over the site with the intention of converting it into a memorial garden for the lost children.

The local coroner convened an inquest the next day, which held that the fire was an accident caused by faulty wiring. There you go. Among the jurors at the inquest was the man who had threatened George Soda that his house would be burned down and his children destroyed in retribution for his anti-Musolee remarks. That man was a juror. He was a juror in that inquest.

That doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right. Death certificates for the five children were issued on December 30. The local newspaper contradicted itself, stating that all the bodies had been found, but then later in the same story saying that only part of one body was recovered. and George and Jenny Soda were too grief-stricken to attend the funeral which was held on January 2nd of the next year although they're surviving older children did Matt you're getting really distressed but

just hang in there buddy just hang in there Conspiracy Not long afterwards As they began to rebuild their lives The Sotas started to question All of the official findings about the fire They wondered why

If it had been caused by an electrical problem The family's Christmas lights had remained on throughout the fire's early stage when the power should have gone out. Right. And it started in his study, was it? Yeah, he started like his office. But the lights were on.

If the power, if there'd been faulty wiring, they wouldn't have had power. But Jenny noticed the lights were on half an hour before the fire started. And then the witnesses, including the family, say the lights were on in the house as the house burnt. As it burnt, like the Titanic going down. So...

What about, there was also that thud on the roof, We'll get to that. I haven't talked about that yet. We will get to that. Brick and stick. They later found... Great game. Great game.

They later found the ladder that had been missing from the side of the house. They just found it at the bottom of an embankment about 75 feet away. It's just been tossed aside. How would it have gotten there? How would you toss a ladder? A telephone repairman told the sodders that the house's phone line had not been burned through in the fire, as they had initially thought, but it had been cut. Somebody had cut their phone.

phone line. Had they find that out, sorry? A telephone repairman. Right. So he's like, no, it hasn't been burned through. It's been cut. In order to cut the phone line, though, someone would have had to climb 14 feet up the pole and reach two feet out.

Two feet away from the pole to cut it. Sounds like something you do with the ladder. Yes. A man whom neighbours had seen stealing a block and tackle from the property around the time of the fire was identified and arrested. Another great game. Block and tackle. So he was arrested?

He was arrested. For... For, well... Well, firstly for stealing the block and tackle, but also, like, they'd seen him around on that night, so they arrested him to question him. He admitted to the theft and claimed that he had been the one to cut the phone line, thinking it was a power line,

but denied having anything to do with the fire. However, no record identifying him exists and why he would have wanted to cut any utility lines to the sodder house while stealing the block and tackle has never been explained. What? So what is a block and tackle? It's like a pulley system that they would use to,

um, like take engines out of cars. Like it's just a, like a hook and then it's, it would be set up on like a pulley. Right. So he's thieving, but he's apparently claimed that he was trying to cut the power.

Yeah, he said, oh yeah, I accidentally cut the, um, phone line. I thought that was the power line. And nobody thought to ask, why were you cutting the power? Yeah, so it checks out. Fair enough then. Innocent mistake. So it sounds like, so.

And he hasn't been identified, so he's possibly not real. No, I think he's real, but I think it was just like, all right, see ya. I think the government made this go out. Okay, sure, we're early on the conspiracies. Fox Mulder over here is... Which I like. On the case. Now, Jenny sort of said in 1968 that if he'd cut the power line, like he apparently intended,

she and her husband, along with the other children, would never have been able to make it out of the house. so as in if he'd uh if he had cut the power line like he was intending to rather than just accidentally cutting the phone line that they all would have died why's that i'm not sure why that's just something that she said in this like later in the 60s they had all electric doors yeah i don't really understand exactly what she means but yeah what's the light maybe the way they got out it was they needed the lights to i don't know yeah but so so so perhaps plotting against them is I think quite what she's getting at. Anyway, Jenny Soda also had trouble accepting Morris's belief that all traces of the children's bodies had been burned completely in the fire. Many of the household appliances had been found, still recognisable in the ash, along with fragments of the tin roof. So, like, other things have definitely, you know, survived. So she's like, that doesn't make a lot of sense. She contrasted the results of the fire with the newspaper account of a similar house.

house fire that she read about at the same time that killed a family of seven. Skeletal remains of all the victims were reported to have been found in that case. Yeah, I think it's strange to burn every single part of the body. Exactly. Of five bodies. She burned a small pile of animal bones to see if they would be completely consumed, and none ever were. So she's like taking it upon herself to do these like scientific experiments. She contacted an employee from the local crematorium who told her that human bones remain even after the bodies are burned at 2,000.

degrees Fahrenheit for two hours, which is far longer and hotter than the house fire could have been. The house fire went for about 45 minutes, and it's a wood fire. So it would have to be like 5,000 degrees or something. Yeah. Which some people argued there was coal stored in the basement because that was part of his business. It was like transporting coal. So the fire would have been hotter than a standard wood fire. But I sort of call bullshit because I don't think it could have been the same.

It couldn't have got to 2,000 degrees. That's 1,000 degrees Celsius. That's hot. That's really hot. That's really fucking hot. It got to 30 degrees this week, and I was like, whew! Yeah. It's hot!

That was hot. I was real sweaty. My work brought ice creams around to us all. Wow. Yeah. Imagine what you get if it got to 1,000 degrees at your work. Burt. We're coming back into the tummy where this podcast should get so hot.

And we winge constantly. I'm loving wearing a jacket right now because I won't be for any weeks coming up. No. So, anyway, do you see that there's... maybe hope, Matt, and you can not be so terrified. Yeah. Why are you trying to revel up my hope? Well, I'm just...

It's because you're really sucking the fun out of this podcast. This comedy podcast is being no fun with you sitting over there sooking. Yeah, start fanning the flames. It was in the 40s. If they are dead, they'd be dead anyway. They died ages ago. That's, yeah, that makes me feel better. People die.

Everyone dies. Everyone dies. You're all going to die. I'm going to die. Dave's definitely going to die. Oh yeah, baby. I'm dying now. We're all dying.

Oh, anyway. So the truck's failure to start was also something that they questioned all that. George believes that they'd been tampered with, perhaps by the same man who stole the block and tackle and cut the phone line. Do you reckon it, do they start starting the next few days? I don't know, yeah. It's like, if the truck's dead forever, then you'd be like, that's suss. But it's hard to disable a truck for like two hours. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a bit weird. And then it starts again. Somebody else who's actually like, one of the son-in-laws in the family, kind of, he felt like maybe just in the panic, they were, like, flooding the engine or just, like, they weren't able to start it properly or something like that.

But that's all sort of, you know, speculation. This entire thing is speculation. Some accounts have suggested the wrong number phone call to the side of house might have also somehow been connected to the fire and disappearance of the children. Remember how, like, she got a phone call from someone? You said it was super creepy. Yeah, it's creepy.

Like, there's just laughter and, like, it sounded like a... party happening in the background. However, investigators later located the woman who had made the call, and she confirmed it had been a wrong number on her part. But like... Who were you calling it at midnight to go, ha ha! I'm drunk!

Woo! That's what I do. Christmas Eve every year, baby. Call all of my family and friends. You call them? Call them all. At 12.30. At 12.30.

All at once. Conference call. Everyone I know. And I just go, woo! I love that call. Yeah. I love that call. Yeah.

You got the call. I'm yet to receive it. Did I not have you in on the conference call? I've not been on the conference call. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'll conference call you this year. Please. Hey, we should conference call sometimes.

Yeah. In the board room. Just have a chat. Yeah, I think so. Just check in. Yeah. I think we really should do that. Just see how we're all coping with this tragic and sad story.

No, Matt. And the aftermath of it. And how we're dealing with it. It's not tragic. It's scary. It's Halloween, Matt. Get on board. It's not.

Have a chocolate. It's spooky. What happened? I know, I'm loving it. This is great. This is feeling like a Dave Warnocky mystery report to me. Thank you. I'm gripped as well. I'm also gripped over here.

I want to know what happens so bad. I was like, oh, I'm going to fuck up a mystery episode. Oh, this is so good. Okay, great. So, as spring approached, the sodders, as they said they would, planted flowers in the soil that they had bulldozed over the house. But further developments in early 1946 reinforced the family's beliefs that the children might be alive somewhere.

What? Wait, okay. What? Matt, you said it yourself. No one ever saw him go upstairs. Yeah, no, I thought that, but it's like, I thought they were killed or something. Where did they've got someone took them away in a sack

and have just left him in a swimming pool somewhere? Yeah, that's much healthier. Keeping them fresh. First, there was evidence that supported their belief that the fire had not started in the electrical system and was instead set deliberately. A driver of a bus that passed through Fayetteville late Christmas Eve,

said he had seen some people throwing balls of fire at the house. Didn't think to come forward any sooner when he'd seen balls of fire being thrown at a house. Oh, I see that all the time around these parts. These here are parts, they love their fireball. 12th through a fireball. 1.30, 5 ball, 2 o'clock, go to bed. Come on, we all know the rules.

Yeah, come on. 2 o'clock, go to bed. Yeah, I know the rules. A few months later, when the snow had melted Sylvia, the youngest in the family. The snow had melted Sylvia? Gross. Snow had melted, comma.

Sylvia found a small, hard, dark green rubber ball. Was it like a rubber ball object? In the nearby brush, she found a rubber ball like in the garden. Okay, yeah. And George, recalling his wife's account of a loud thump on the roof before the fire, said it looked like a pineapple bomb hand grenade or some other sort of, explosive device that was used in combat. Pineapple bomb.

Yeah, I'd never heard that. I like it. That sounds amazing. It's like an explosive pineapple flavor. It's like a pineapple bomb in my mouth, Peter Galada. I want one on my pizza. Pineapple bomb. Yeah. So yeah, they're thinking now that somebody

of it obviously... It's a grenade. It's starting the fire. Family later claimed that contrary to the fire marshal's conclusion, the fire had started on the roof, although there was no way to prove it. But that's what they reckon. Other witnesses claimed to have seen the children themselves.

One woman, who'd been watching the fire from the road, said she'd seen some of them peering out of a passing car while the house was burning. Oh, okay. So that's a bit weird. Yeah. Real creepy. Another woman at a rest stop between Fayetteville and Charleston

said she'd served them breakfast the next morning and noted the presence of a car with Florida license plates in the rest of car park as well. So, like, had they been taken? Oh. The sod has hired a private investigator named C.C. Tinsley. Incredible name. So good.

That sounds like a 1920s voice. Oh, C.C. Tindley, on the case. See? No, that's not quite right, is it? What's the P.I. voice that they always do? Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I thought that was pretty damn good. Oh, okay, sick. Thank you.

I'm happy with that. He learned that the insurance salesman who had threatened them with, the fire a year before. Oh, it was a year before, not a few months before. I thought it was he, anyway, it doesn't matter. The guy who'd threatened them, the insurance salesman, um, he, so C.C. Tinsley was the one who found out that that particular man had been on the coroner's jury that ruled the fire an accident. And he told the sodders. Before that, they didn't know that that guy had been, you know, on the jury. He also learned of rumors around Fayetteville that despite his reports to the sodders that no remains had been found in the ashes, Morris, the fire chief,

had found a heart which he later packed into a metal box and secretly buried. Okay, that's fucking weird. What? Who did that? The fire chief. That's very strange. Morris had apparently confessed this to a local minister

who confirmed it to George Soda. Soda and Tinsley went to Morris and confronted him with the news. He agreed to show the two where he'd buried it and they dug it up. They took what they found inside the box to a local funeral director who, after examining it,

told them it was in reality beef liver, very fresh and had never been exposed to fire. What? So he's like... Right? It doesn't make any sense. Recap it for us. So that makes it sound like they thought we've got this great way of proving the kids are dead.

We'll make up this rumor that the fire chief buried a heart and then we'll pretend, we'll make this pretend heart and hopefully no one asks any questions. But all they used was a beef liver, not even a heart. and didn't even burn it or anything. It's a real weird attempt at getting people off the scent, right? Yep. Real weird.

So weird. So weird. I love it. Yeah. Later, more rumours circulated around Fayetteville that Morris had afterwards admitted the box with the liver had indeed not come from the fire originally. Yeah, no shit.

He'd supposedly placed it there in the hope that the sodders would find it and be satisfied that the missing children had indeed done. died in the fire. Why is the fire chief so intent on covering this up? Exactly. Why does he want them to just be like, oh, our kids are dead? And why would they believe him that he did that? What a weird thing to do.

If you've done that, Fire Chief, then I don't know if I trust you about anything. I don't trust him about anything. He didn't turn up for six hours. Oh, I couldn't drive the truck. Couldn't find the keys. What am I like? And then when he got there, he found a heart that no one else had noticed. Yeah, just the heart as well.

Like everything else, the bones burnt. That makes no sense. The rib cage around the heart, obviously, that melted away. Hearts, they burn it at 5,000 degrees. Not 1,000? 5,000. Celsius. Science.

So that's all a little bit strange. Also, hearts are livers from cows. Yeah. Funny that, yeah. In the years that followed, there was a few more reported sightings of the children. Look at the hiccups there. After seeing a girl in a magazine picture of a young, young ballet dancers in New York City who looked like one of their missing daughters, Betty,

George drove all the way to the girl's school where he's repeated demands to see the girl himself were refused. So he followed up a lot of these, like any kind of tip-off or alleged siding, he would always follow them up. So he's driven all the way to New York because he's seen a picture of a girl in the newspaper who looks a bit like what Betty would look like a couple of years later. which like in torture it totally is and it also makes so much sense like of course you would yeah he also tried to interest the FBI in investigating what he considered was a kidnapping

director j Edgar Hoover personally responded to his letters and his letter said although I'd like to be of service the matter related appears to be of a local character and does not come within the investigative jurisdiction of this bureau if the local authorities requested the Bureau's assistance, he added. He would, of course, direct agents to assist, but the Fayetteville Police and Fire Department declined to do so. Dodgy as far.

So dodgy. So it's almost feeling like the police and the fire department are like... They're all in on it. Yeah, well, I know, but all they're going like these delusional parents, but I feel like they're in on it. They're in on it. Might be a combination. Yeah, probably.

The fire guy sounds dodgy as. And in American movies on TV, The local cops and the feds never get along. Right? And the feds come in. It's our case now. It's our jurisdiction. It's mine. I think that's where I learnt the word jurisdiction.

It's a great word too. It's a great word. In August of 1949, so a few years after it had happened, George was able to persuade Oscar Hunter, a Washington, D.C. pathologist, to supervise a new search through the dirt at the house site. After a very thorough search, artifacts including a dictionary that had belonged to the children and some coins were found. several small bone fragments were unearthed

determined to have been human vertebrae. They were sent to Marshall T. Newman, a specialist at the Smithsonian Institute. They were confirmed to be lumber vertebrae all from the same person. And his reports say, since the transverse recesses are fused, the age of this individual at death

should have been 16 or 17 years. The top limit of age should be about 22, since the centra, which normally fuses at 23, are still unfused. But given this age range, it was not very likely that these bones were from any of the five missing children

since the oldest was Maurice, who had been 14 at the time. What? So now there's a dead body, but they don't know who it is? They've got like fragments of vertebrae. It's not a body. They've just got bits of bone.

Yeah, but I also like, why would they, where's the rest of the bones? If that is actually one of those kids, and surely there'd be more than just fragments, right? Yeah, exactly. So what are the, but sorry, you reckon those kids killed other kids

and kept fragments of bones in their bedroom? Probably not, to be honest. Yeah, that's... It wasn't where I was going. It says like a theory that not even the internet could get by. I'm not sure about that one, Maddie, to be honest. Well, they'd just iterate those... They could be bone fragments from another time, right?

Yeah, I suppose... Someone could have been buried under the house or something decades earlier. Well, Newman added that the bone showed no sign of being exposed to flame. Further he agreed. that it was very strange that those bones were not were the only ones found, since a wood fire of such short duration should have left

full skeletons of all of the children. The report concluded that the vertebrae had instead, most likely come from the dirt that Soda had bulldozed over the site. Later, Tinsley supposedly confirmed that the bone fragments had come from a cemetery in nearby Mount Hope but could not explain why they had been taken from there or how they came to be at the fire site. So they may have been taken from somewhere else.

Right. He supposedly confirmed they came. came from a cemetery, but how, yeah, not a lot of, I don't have a lot of information backing that up, but that's fucking weird. That's weird. The investigation and its findings attracted national attention, and the West Virginia legislature held two hearings on the case in 1950. Afterwards, however, Governor Oakley L. Patterson and state police, superintendent W.E. Burchett,

told the sodders the case was hopeless and closed it at a state level. The FBI decided it had jurisdiction as a possible interstate kidnapping but dropped the case after two years of following fruitless leads So even the FBI and local police have been like No idea They had flyers, the family, the Sotters had flyers printed up with pictures of the children Offering a festival show Yeah

Two for one tickets Offering a $5,000 reward Which soon doubled For any information that would have settled the case for even one of the children. In 1952, they put up a billboard at the side of the house and another along U.S. Route 60 with the same information.

It would in time become a landmark for traffic through Fayetteville. Apparently, it was there for about 40 years. Really? Yeah. Wow. Until the 90s. Their efforts soon brought another reported signing of the children after the fire.

Ida Crutchfield, a woman who ran Ida, Crutchfield. Crutchfield. That's Mrs Crutchfield to you. Please, Mrs. Crutchfield is my mother. Crutchfield. That's a beautiful name. Isn't it great?

Ida as well. Ida. Sounds like a part prank called a Mo. Yeah, Ida Crutchfield. She ran a Charleston hotel and claimed to have seen the children approximately a week after the fire. Approximately.

Come on, mate. Sorry, mate. I'm doing so well. You are doing very, very well. Didn't even notice over you. Approximately. Better. Is that better?

Thanks. Annunciated. Isn't that hard? My God, I hate you. Like me. I always say words perfectly. So, yeah, she'd seem to apparently a week after the fire. She said, I do not remember the exact date.

The children had come in around midnight with two men and two women, all of whom appeared to be of Italian. an extraction, she said. When she attempted to speak with the children, one of the men looked at me in a hostile manner, and he turned around and began talking rapidly in Italian. Immediately the whole party stopped talking to me. She recalled that they left the hotel early the next morning.

An investigators today don't really consider her story credible, as she only saw pictures of the children two years after the fire, and it was another five years before she came forward. So they're like, she's probably full of shit. Right. But who knows? But they want you to think that. Exactly. George Soder, like I said before, he followed up a lot of leads in person and he travelled all over the place following tips.

A woman in St. Louis claimed that Martha was being held in a convent there. And a bar patron in Texas claimed to have overheard two people making incriminating statements about a fire that happened on Christmas Eve in West Virginia. None of those proved to be significant, but they were all kind of looked into. When George heard later that a relative of Jenny's in Florida had children that looked similar to his, The relative had to prove the children were his own before George was satisfied. So George was even like questioning his own family. Well, they'd kidnap his kids and called them their own. Yeah.

That'd be a pretty brazen plan if you did that. Oh no, that's not Sarah. This is Ashley. But you didn't have kids a week ago. Yeah, I had Ashley. What? You're 17. I've always had Ashley.

You know her? Show me baby photos. I lost them in fire. Oh, oh shit. Triggered. I'm triggered. In 1967, George went to the Houston area to investigate another tip. A woman there had written to the family saying that Louis Soda had revealed his true identity to her one night after having too much to drink. She believed that he and Maurice were both living in Texas somewhere,

but Sotter and his son-in-law were unable to speak with her. Police there were able to help them find the two men she'd indicated, but they denied being the missing sons. The son-in-law said years later that doubts about the people, denial lingered in Sotter's mind for the rest of his life. So he's sort of like, but were they maybe my kids? Yeah. Oh.

Yeah. Did I just speak to my sons and they've denied it? I don't know. Really weird. Another letter that they received that year brought the Sotters what they believed was the most credible evidence that at least Louis was still alive. One day, Jenny found in the mail, a letter addressed just to her, postmarked in central city, Kentucky, with no return address.

Instead, inside was a picture of a young man around 30 with features strongly resembling Louise who would have been in his 30s if he'd survived. On the back was written, Louis Soda. I love brother Frankie, Lily Boys, A90122 or 35. None of that makes any sense other than Louis Soda. Oh, so you don't know what that means?

What, the rest of it? Yeah. No. Right. I thought I'm learning some sort of family like in joke. Remember that thing we used to do? A90132 or 35, I don't know. Favorite number on the Dewey Decimal System, Ma'am, no, you love cooking.

Well, you called it the Lewy Decimal System because I'm your little bookworm. It couldn't have been like a postcode or something and an ORB being, not all, but being Oregon or something. Possibly, yeah. I've just cracked this case where it. You've got it. You've found him. They hired another private detective to go to Central City and look into this case, but he never reported back to the sodders and they were unable to.

to locate him afterwards. The private detective went missing. What? They never heard from him again. What? Do you reckon he took the money and run or he disappeared? Maybe. Well, that's like one theory.

I saw like a YouTube video about this case where people were kind of pulling it apart and somebody was like, when your private detective goes missing, like you are in with some bad people and you should stop investigating this case. So the PI goes missing. I think you should keep investigating because something dodgy's happened.

Yeah, it's super weird. The picture nonetheless gave them a lot of hope and they added it to the billboard, leaving Central City out of it and any other published information out of fear that Louis might come to harm if it was him. And they put an enlargement of the photo over their fireplace. Like they just believed that that was a picture of Louis. Oh. Yeah. George Soder admitted to the Charleston Gazette Mail later the next year that the lack of information had been like hitting a rock wall.

We can't go any further. He nevertheless vowed to continue. Time is running out for us, he admitted in another interview around that time. But we only want to know. If they did die in the fire, we want to be convinced. Otherwise, we want to know what happened to them. So that's really rough. George died in 1969, and after his death, Jenny stayed in the family home.

And for the rest of her life, she wore black in mourning and tended to the garden at the site of the former house. What she were in the afternoon? Sorry, that's awful. M-O-U-R. Oh. Mm. I don't think that's even the first time I've done a morning.

Bad morning misunderstanding. A good morning. After Jenny died in 1989, the family took down the weathered, worn billboard. So she lived for 20 years after her husband. Yeah. Morning in black, tending to the garden. That's so awful. The surviving SOTA children, joined by their own children,

continued to publicize the case and investigate, leads. They, along with older Fayetteville residents, have theorised that the Sicilian mafia was trying to extort money from George Sotter, and the children may have been taken by someone who knew about the planned arson and said that they would be safe if they left the house. They were possibly taken back to Italy, and if the children had survived all those years and were aware that their parents and siblings had survived too, the family believes they may have avoided contact in order to keep them from harm. So maybe the two boys that said, no, we're not. So maybe the two boys that said, no, we're not your sons. Maybe they were.

I don't think so, but who knows? Spooky Halloween episode. It's the unknown. Stacey Horn, who did a segment on the case for National Public Radio around its 60th anniversary in 2005, also believes the children's death in the fire is the most plausible solution. So she thinks they died? She thinks they probably died in the fire. That makes the most sense to her.

But to me, the lack of bones is crazy. Yeah. But that's the thing. She noted that the fire had continued to smolder all night after the house collapsed and that two hours was not enough time to search the ash thoroughly. So they kind of did a really quick look at the fire site after the fire had happened. Even if it had been, the firefighters may not have known what to look for. However, she said, there's enough genuine weirdness about this whole thing

that if someday it's learned that the children did not die in the fire, I won't be shocked. That's kind of how I feel too. So it kind of comes to the end of the report in a way because, like, that's all the information there is. Unsatisfying mystery. Oh, mystery. Mystery! But what do you reckon? I don't know.

Well, as I just said, I think if they did die, surely, they'd find something. The evidence of five, one body, not turning up, maybe, but five. Five. Five bodies. And they were able to find fragments of spina. They found addiction. and some coins. Yeah,

everyone knows that dictionaries burn around the same heat as as bones. No, they don't burn. Oh,

dictionaries don't burn. Yeah. No, the languages. Too powerful. Right, that's right, of course. Okay,

well, that stops me dead in my tracks. I don't know. I've got no answer then. I just, yeah. I feel like, yeah,

they went back to Italy. Ah, I think Sicilian Mafia really did burn the house down and either they kidnapped them or someone else kidnapped them. But it's like if they were trying to extort money,

surely they'd have to approach him and ask for money? Yeah. And at no stage were they... Yeah, I don't know. And did they intend for all of the family to die? But then there's still no remains of the kids. I believe the kids are alive, I think. Or lived, at least.

They might not be alive now. But even if they were, then they would have grown to adults and you'd think that they would have found their family. family or because they were old enough to it's not like they were taken as toddlers and then could be raised as if like these are your parents. Yeah, if you're 14, you remember everything.

You'd know exactly what had happened to you. So you'd find your family or you'd like. Sure, you give your mum some closure. Like, yeah. Like even like that letter, but like more specific. Hey, it's me. But then it says like I love brother Frankie, but they didn't have a Frankie in their family so I don't know what that means

and super weird. And yeah, like the police and the fire. Didn't Frank suggest this topic? Yeah. Brother Frankie. We found him. It's his way of... Matt just keeps cracking this case wide open. Fuck, you're good. You're a good.

You should be. I am sorry, guys. I should have told you this while ago. I'm a private eye, though. And I keep things private. He does. He's a private guy. Private eye, and I'm a private guy.

Very good. Very good. Well done all. And a good night to all. Well done, everybody. So, yeah, that's the story of the Soda Children Disappearance. I'd love to hear more about this. No, I didn't want to finish my sentence.

Oh, good. Well, that worked out really well then. And did you research this? Did you get the feeling that this is like a famous American case? Because I've never heard of it. I don't know. There's not a lot of information. Okay, so it's not like a super famous mystery.

There isn't. There isn't. Like, that's about all that I could find. And to be honest, the Wikipedia page of it was the most thorough I could find of all of the information. Interesting. Yeah. Because normally it's like a bit shit.

I mean, you go to several other resources. But like, there was other. the things just kind of said all the same thing. I couldn't find any other information about it. It's a weird. It's a weird one, but I like it. My theory, or not mine, somebody else suggested to me after I sent them the Wikipedia article, suggested that the reason they couldn't find any bones is because the kids didn't have any bones. Jelly people. I didn't consider that. I didn't even think of jelly people. Yeah, jelly people. Five times jelly people. Yeah.

They were five times jelly people? Yeah. And there were five of them. Yes. Wow. Yeah. That's 25 jelly people. It is genetic.

Right. It would be in the family. Yeah, it would be in the family. It would all be jelly people. Makes sense. George, Joe, John, George Jr. Jenny. Joey, Joe, Joe, Joe.

Joey, Joe, Joe. Jelly. It makes sense. It makes sense. Jelly people do name themselves with just sounds. That's true. It's true. So, yeah.

It's up in the air. Well, Jess, thank you very much for this Halloween mystery edition. And thank you, Frank, for the topic. It was really interesting. Very cool. It really, really was. Wow. I'd never heard of any of it.

But, you know, we thank Frank, but we also, at the end of our episode, we'll always thank our Patreon listeners as well. That's all right. We thank the general listeners at large for listening to the show. And thanks to everyone that's been reviewing the show on iTunes. That really does actually help. Believe it or not, your minutes spent on reviewing us, giving some stars and writing things actually really helped. and very nice to read as well. And to all the new listeners that found out from a friend,

if you guys want to pass the show on to anyone, that is a great way to get the pod out there. Yeah, it's fine by us. And another great way to support the pod is via Patreon, which I think is Jess was just... What was about that? Well, well, well, well, which is what Jess was getting at, I believe. Patreon.com slash do go on pod for all your Patreon do go on needs.

If you want to chip into the show a little bit each month, does keep the pod going. And of course you get stuff in exchange, including a bonus episode, a month. Ooh, that's fun. And also, we'd like to thank you on the show. So, Jess, you've got some names there from the Patreon peeps. I do. And I would love to thank from Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.

Wow. I've never been, but I'd love to. Have you not? Really? I love it. Oh, that's great. I love it. You've got to go.

Speak to every territory except Tassie. Oh, mate. You've got to get down there. And then while you're down there, you can go visit our good friend and Patreon supporter, Molly Bird. Molly Bird. Isn't that a great name? Great name. Molly's already good.

I'm a big Molly fan. I love Molly and Bird is fucking sick too. Good on your Molly Bird. Great name. You may not have chosen it, but it's still great. If these guys were lost as children, where would they have ended up? What would their new identity be? Tasmania.

Yeah. New identity would be... Molly was taken to Tasmania. Wow. Yeah. That is fascinating. Isn't it? Wow, Molly.

Yeah. And I would also like to thank... What do we give them a Halloween name? Yeah. I think that's probably a better one to do. Okay, well, Molly Bird could be... Moldy Bird. Moldy Bird, yeah, that's great.

That's the best I'll come up with. Moldy Bird. And I'd also like to thank Chris Brennick from Walkaway, Western Australia. Or as I like to call it, I'm walking away From troubles in my life, I'm walking away. Craig David, he keeps haunting me this week through Halloween. Craig David's come up a lot of my life this week. If I was going to give Halloween a scary, like a Halloween name,

I'd call it Halloween. You know, on Twitter how you'd change? That's good. Well, what would Curtis Brennick, what would his Halloween name be? I just go, I just go straight to porn names every time. Curtis Brennick. Which to some people is pretty scary. Hurt us.

Yeah, that's good. Machete. Hurt us Machete. All right. Thank you, Curtis. Dave. Thank you, I'd like to thank from Royal Oak, Michigan. Ooh.

John Cole. John Cole. C-O-A-L is how I'm changing it to Halloween. because Cole is scary. Oh, it's a depleting resource. How will the world function without it? John Cole, thank you so much from Royal Oak. And I would like to thank from Lycair, New South Wales.

Michelle Lucas or Michelle Lucifer. Oh, damn it. Spookus is better. Sorry, Dave. Just poned you right then. Spookus. Come on. Lucifer.

That's dumb. Spookus. Lucifer as in the devil. I get it, but Spookus is better. Spookus is a lot better. Your one was really, you need to read it. What about my hell, Spookus? That's good.

Yeah, my hell spookus. That's good. All right, Maddie, what are you got? I came back there, Michelle, big love. I'd love to thank. From West Sussex, Sarah Groom. Sarah Gloom. Oh, yes, yes, very good.

This is Jess's best pun week ever. I know, and I'm never good at these. Scarra. Scare a gloom. Scare a gloom. Ooh! Thank you, Sarah. And I'd also like to thank another bird,

this one's probably with you, from Arlington, Virginia, Andrew Bird. Ooh. I know. Andrew Mird. Andrew Mirder. Yes!

That's good. Yeah, no, can't do anything with Andrew. Andrew Mird. If you can think of a scary name for, Andrew, tweet us in. Andrew, his gun. And a murd. And a murd.

And a murd. So I'm thinking, the bride and bird. The bird and groom. No good. Bird and groom. Gloom. Bird and gloom.

It's a good name for a pub. Mird and gloom. Okay. Stop. Thanks to those people anyway. Thanks to all our spooky friends, supporting the show. Bye, Patreon.

We do absolutely appreciate it. And if you want to get in contact, do go on pod at gmail.com is the way you can do so via email. Also, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. We don't mention YouTube that often. We've got a YouTube page.

YouTube.com slash do go on pod. We put the occasional video, plus every episode goes on there. So if your friends don't need to the podcast, let it know how any of the apps work. Send them a YouTube link. Everyone gets that, and then maybe they can get hooked that way.

Pretty good. They can get hooked. Like the guy from I know what you did last summer Hook Hand Whatever his name really was Yeah Scary

A real not scary bad guy Oh Scary A fisherman with a hook Anyway Anyway Anyway And should we maybe tease it next week

We might be in We've had a Halloween episode this week Maybe we'll have another special episode next week Maybe Maybe we want to tease it too much but oh oh it's going to be a lot of fun but for that we'll be tweeting about it this week but thanks again for listening and see you next time

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