Do Go On - 115 - The BTK Killer

Episode Date: January 3, 2018

This week, the patreon has voted for Jess' topic for the first time, and they chose very wisely! We look at a serial killer who evaded police for more than 25 years! Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPodTwitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] and other reading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7yMSgPYF2k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuRn0DKmeyA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader https://www.biography.com/people/dennis-rader-241487  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnocky and in 2018 I am joined by two new co-hosts, Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins. Thank you so much for having me. Born again, Stuart. Yes, I regenerated like they do on the show about it. doctors. You're shorter than you used to be. That's true. McLeod's daughters. I was going to say McLeod's doctors.

But yes, it is great to be here with my doctory pals, Jess and Matt. Yeah, we're going to solve illnesses. Yeah. And mysteries. If you solve an illness, do you cure it or do you just identify it? No, no, you do both. You've got tuberculosis, cracked it, move on. And they're like, can you help me?

Oh, no, I just... That's a different doctor for that. No, I just identified the problem. You are solved. Move on. We know what you're going to die from. That's funny. I'm going to call it now.

That's my best joke of the year. Whoa. Well, as in terms of me laughing. Wait. She's gone early. Wait, so that was in town. I thought you're laughing at the thing you said, accidentally but you said it on purpose and then laughed at how funny it was

no I said it like no she stuffed it up but she still claim it as her best joke yeah I love it I love the process it's nice to be involved nothing is a mistake do you know what I mean it's all part of the process guys I'm doing late night radio and I don't sleep much now and this is the effect But you talk on Mike all day long, all day long, so that's how it comes out so naturally.

I actually had a dream fairly recently that I, because I had a bit of a sore throat when I went to sleep. And in my dream, they had to remove my throat. Oh, no. And then I realized that everything I do is talking. Like, I should actually insure my vocal chords. Oh, my God, 10 million. We all should. Kim Kay has done her butt or something, so surely we can do our vocal.

Carla's done her butt. It was terrifying. Dave, you should have your. were tonsils done, obviously. Obviously. They're already insured. And Matt, your big balls should be insured. Well, don't worry.

I've already got the imprint in carbonite. So if anything happens. Yep. Your loved ones still have your balls. They'll at least have, you know, something to hold on to. Was that quite expensive to get done too? Yes. Uh-huh.

So they have the imprint of your balls. Don't you also back them up in the cloud? Yeah, they're back. up. My balls were backed up months ago. You got to back them up every morning. What? Can I just back it up and leave it? Your balls change every day, man. Oh, that's true. What's happened now? What's happened? I don't know how we got here. Yes. Do you want to explain what the show is? Now, if you haven't heard the show before, what we do is we get given a topic suggested by a listener and we do a report on it and we take it in

turns to do that and it is Jess's week. It is my turn and as is tradition, I have not written a question. Of tradition. Yeah, I'm a traditionalist. We've always said that about me. So I'm going to riff one now. Okay, here we go. No mistakes.

All right. Woo. And this one was voted for by our Patreon. Yeah. So Jess is now, I've handed her the Petron reigns for a few months. Yep. If you're a Petron supporter, you can vote on what you like just to report on. Yeah.

So every time I'm going to be doing a topic, I'll put it to you and you get to decide. and I should have known that this would be chosen. Mystery. Killer. Oh, both. Oh, mystery. History killer. Okay.

I can do this. No wrong answers. Who, there we go, terrorized Wichita for more than 25 years. The Wichita. The Wichita Lansman. That's a song, which could be about a killer. The line, the witch and the wardrobe. Okay, there is not a clue in Wichita.

Witchie woman? I said there isn't a clue. Witchy woman. Wichy witchy witch? Witchy witch? Witchy witch? Is this some sort of, so they're terrorizing, is there some sort of killer? Perhaps.

It's not like a moth man type thing. It's not a moth man type thing. Okay, so it is a killer. Okay, like the big ones are like John Wayne Gage. I don't know where there's people from. John Wayne Gasey. The clown killer. I hadn't heard.

It's three initials, if that helps at all. Three initials. All the way with LBJ. Oh. People suggest this a lot. The BTK? Yes, correct. The BTK killer.

People often tweet maybe Facebook message and tweet it, I think. Right. Because perhaps people have, I love it when people, this happens quite a bit, especially from American listeners. They proudly tweet in the name of a killer from their state. Yes, and that is the case. Oh, is that the case? Sean Amallow has suggested this because

Sean is in Kansas where the BTK killer is from. Yes, I was thinking of Kansas. Maybe this has only happened once. Someone proudly Facebook messaged me saying that, yeah, it's the, they terrorized Kansas. Where I'm from. Well, there's a couple other people that have suggested as well. Sarah Clough and Luke Zilk have also emailed in.

Possibly Sarah. Possibly. Yeah. So, BTK killer. BTC. Oh, so BTKK. K-kill, so the K is for someone else? Is K for Kansas?

No. I actually think it is one of those ATM-type things where, you know, you say ATM machine. Right. Is the K for killer? No. Oh. Or sort of. Sort of.

I will explain. Okay, no worries. We'll give it away. Let's go. Brian the killer. Brian the killer. You nailed it in one. And yet they remained at large for 25 years.

Because really their name was Greg. That's how they fucking get you. The police were like, well, I've got DNA match to Greg. But this person's Brian the killer, so we'll let him go. See you later, Greg. See you, Greg. Sorry. Sorry about that.

Can I drive you home? What? No, because you've got bodies in the basement. Oh, Greg, you crack me up. Greg, you are an absolute character. God, if I had it my way, I'd call you Brian. But you're Greg, so you're free. What?

Have we mentioned it's hot in here? It's so hot. It's summer. Okay, so on the 15th of January in 1974, Joseph Atero, his wife Julie, and their children, Joseph and Josephine, not creative, were found murdered in their home on North Edgemore Street in Wichita. The story shook the community because a crime of this nature was unheard of. Joseph and Julia were found in their bedroom, both had been bound and strangled. Joseph Jr., who was nine, was found in another bedroom, also bound and suffocated.

And Josephine, who was 11, was found in the basement hanging from a water pipe. Oh, yeah, I should have warned you this gets pretty gruesome. Oh, my God. Dead? Hanging dead? Oh, yep. Oh, picture like. Me?

Oh, no. Maybe she was the lone survivor or something. No, like a noose. Like she was like, Mrs. Pymel horse. I'd like to get down now. The Simpsons. No, unfortunately, this child was dead. Oh.

Oh, no Simpsons reference for that. No. Police and profile speculated that the killer had spent time watching the house, taking note of the comings and goings of the. family and knowing when people would be home. But they had no leads. Three months after the Otero murders on the 4th of April, police were called to the home of 21-year-old Catherine Bright,

who lived just two miles away. Catherine and her brother Kevin had come home and were confronted by a person who'd been waiting in Catherine's closet with a gun. There was a struggle between the attacker and Kevin who'd struggled free after being bound to a chair. Kevin was shot in the side of the head. The killer thought Kevin was dead, but in fact he was only knocked unconscious after being shot in the side of the head. Whoa.

How was Kevin? He's, uh, oh, I'm not 100% sure. I think he's older than Catherine. All right, so he's not a child. No, but they're like early, late teens, early 20s. Is this person targeting people, siblings with similar sounding names? No. Is that the motive?

No. Okay. Thank you for your suggestion. Okay. I'm just trying to crack the case. I know. Apparently he's been at large for 25 years. Yeah.

I know. and you're doing great. Keep those suggestions coming. There's no mistakes. We said that early. No mistakes. Is it too early to go with more people? I mean, they definitely have access to that basement.

It's never too early to go to mole people. Matt's already gone quiet because he does not like the murdery ones. No, I'm not a big, oh, look, you know. It's because you remember that they're people. Yeah. Whereas I just hear like a spooky story, you know? Yeah. I forget that they're real people.

I, yeah, and I actually, yeah. I don't, yeah. It's, um, so a lot of people have died so far. Kevin hasn't. Oh, thank God. Kevin's fine. I'll, I'll tell you more about Kevin. So, um, Kevin came to and he could hear that his sister was being attacked.

So he went to help her, but he was shot in the face. Oh, okay. So now he's been shot in the side of the head and the face. He stumbles outside. What? And he was found by a passerby who called for emergency services. Catherine had been stabbed three times in the abdomen, but she was still alive.

However, she did unfortunately die later in hospital. But Kevin survived. It's like the toughest kids ever. Yeah. Kevin survived the attack. So he's shot in the side of the head and in the face, and he lived. But because of the extent of his injuries,

police felt that his recollection or description of the killer might not be all that reliable because he probably didn't see all that well. What with being shot in the face? So this is all in 1974, right? So early 1974, in the December, the police made a few arrests in relation to the murders. And the media subsequently reported about people being in custody for those murders that had happened earlier in the year.

And this is when the police received their first written communication from the BTK killer. So just before this had they connected the two crimes or was it two separate murders? Two separate murders. Right, because I suppose one's suffocation, one's gun. Yeah. And they're not, like it's a, I mean, it's a decent-sized city. It's like a population of 500,000. So it's not huge, but it's... Right. It's not like, you know, everyone's being murdered. Yeah, exactly. So they don't, it's so unheard of that they're kind of going, what's going on here? But they're not really thinking at this stage that... There's a serial killer. Yeah.

So in October of 74, so just before they'd made these arrests, a man called the Wichita Eagle newspaper and told them that they would find a letter in the Wichita. He was called the Wichita Eagle newspaper. He called the Wichita. A man called the Wichita Eagle newspaper. He phoned them. Oh, fucking up. Called them on the telephone.

It's a fascinating name. Or he's panicked when giving a fake name. Wichita Eagle newspaper. But so that's the name of our newspaper. Gotta go. Bye. He's looking around. He sees a sign for Wichita.

He sees an eagle flying outside. So he called him on the telephone, the newspaper. I think I get it now. He called them on the telephone. Oh, my God. Hello. on the telephone. Hello on the telephone.

It's me, Wichita Eagle newspaper. Oh, hello, Wichita. What can I do for you? Sorry. All right. We'll let this one slide. He told them they would find a letter in the Wichita Public Library

hidden in an engineering book. Police retrieved the letter from the book and determined it was definitely from the person who had committed the murders. Now, the letter described the Otero crime scene in great detail, and only the killer could have known all the details that were outlined in the letter. So it like described their house and the crime scene and how they were found and stuff like that.

Curtains were pink. It's him. Only him or an interior decorator would notice such a thing. It's such a funny thing that the, you know, I guess in a lot of ways, serial killers aren't normal, right? In so many ways, man. Yes. But like, I would have thought most people's instinct was, would be to commit a crime and then not to contact the newspaper and the police and make sure everyone knows who you are. Yeah, well, in one of the docos that I watch, which this first half is mostly based on, because it was really comprehensive, but there was a, like a police, sorry, yeah, a profiler, and she was talking about the behaviours of serial killers.

And she said exactly that, like, it's actually quite rare. Like, Hollywood makes it sound like serial killers play a lot of cat and mouse with the police, but that's actually incredibly rare. Most of them would sort of commit their crimes and then stay quiet. Because then they can keep committing their crimes. Whereas this is kind of different in that they play the game and they want the attention. So he signed off the letter with what would become his trademark, which is BTK, bind, torture, kill. The bind, torture, kill, killer. Yeah.

That is an horrific sign of. Yeah, it's pretty creepy. I don't want to turn on this guy early, but I think he might be a bit. bit of a fuckhead. Interesting. I will wait till I hear more evidence. Very good, David. I don't go early.

He never goes early. He never goes early. Except on river dance. Yeah. I just knew from the start. You went too early. And then, yeah. And our friendship

suffered for it. Hey, we've recovered. Have we? We've been through therapy. I promise you that when we tour to Dublin, we will all go to the river dance. I can't wait for that. I will get teary again.

So will I. We're starting to talk. talk about doing a UK and an island tour. Do you want that? Yes, that's why I brought it up. No, I was asking the listener. Ritorical. Actually, it's not rhetorical.

I'm pretty sure he knew. Let us know. I know, of course Matt knew. Of course Matt knew. Let us know the listener if you want that. Let us know the listener. You're calling yourself the listener? God, this is confusing.

Let me call them on the phone. Make a phone call on a telephone. They dialed a number and they picked up. The recipient of said phone call picked up their receiver and said, Olla, and then they said, oh, I'm sorry, wrong number. And then they redialed the correct phone number. And the recipient answered and said, Wichita Eagle newspaper, Carol speaking.

Oh, Carol. Carol, it's, oh, I'm supposed to give a fake name here. Hold on, let me call you back. I think of something. I've probably said too much Don't trace this number It is my actual house I forgot that you should use a pay phone

Oh fuck Oh no See ya Bye Carol So he signed off the letter BTK And he also threatened More killings to happen

Police recruited more officers To work on the case But the trail went cold And the BTK killer Wasn't heard from For another three years Three years Which is also rare

That there would be like a big gap In March of 1977, a man approached a child on the street and showed the boy a picture of a person and asked if the boy knew the person in the photo or if that person lived at this address. The child said they didn't know the person and they went inside. Is this Arnold Schwarzenegger and Terminator 2?

Yes. Have you seen this boy? That's exactly it, yes. Or the Wayne's World Rip-off? Which is much the same. It's actually not Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's the author of glasses. Yeah.

Yeah. cool. Ed Harris. No. Ed Harris. Not Ed Harris. Wrong Harris. Robert Patrick.

I meant Robert Patrick, everyone. Yes, I like Terminator 2, but not as much as you're obviously. Sorry, Robert Patrick. The other Harris, that's what you call him. Robert Patrick Harris. Anyway. So he said, do you know this boy? And the child was like, no.

And away they went. He's like, no. No. No. Lame. Later, the same man appeared at the door and forced his way into the house. He locked the children in the bathroom.

Is this the boy that he'd spoken to? Yep. Right. The eldest child, who was eight, helped his six-year-old brother and four-year-old sister climb out of the tiny window in the bathroom. So brave. Mad dog.

Their mother, Shirley Vian, was found by police, bound and strangled. Like at the Otero crime scene, there was semen left behind, but there was no sign of sexual activity at either of the crime scenes with any of the victims. So police soon realize that this is a sexually motivated serial killer. Wait, what?

He's jacking at the crime scene while they're dying. Ah. Right. What about the kids? What about the eight-year-old? Did you get out? Yeah, the kids all got out. That's good, Matt.

That is good. Kids are fine. Oh, fucking hell. They know. Oh, my God. I had a good feeling when, because then, the way we would have known that the boy had spoken on before was if he survived. Yeah. But I was hoping they all pulled through.

I love when there's details like that. You always do that. You're like, how do we know that? You get so excited. It's lovely. The best description that police could get from the children, though, was that he was a white man about mummy's age. The children were able to tell police that he had a black bag with him and a gun, which police had suspected because they thought that he had brought his own tape and rope, etc with him like he's bringing his own tools I guess yeah so but that was about it like that was the only sort of thing I could get out of the children because the eldest one was eight like they're little kids such a sick escape them getting out yeah yeah it was a really

small window apparently because of the similarities in the crimes police were fairly confident that the suspect was the same person who had murdered the otero family but were thrown off by the three-year gap between murders the police made the the decision not to give credit to the BTK killer in the hopes that he would make, that would make him get in contact with them because he'd previously wanted credit for his murders. Right. So had they published that letter earlier that they found in the engineering?

No. Oh, right. So they didn't. They haven't published anything. So the public don't know that there's someone called the BTK. No. So the public obviously like, I mean, the news is still reporting on murders happening. Right.

But keep in mind, there was two in 1974. Three years later, there's another one. Like it's not, it's still awful, of course. But it's not like it's happening every day. And they're not connecting the dots. Exactly. So they're hoping that, so the police are hoping that by kind of not giving him what he wants,

that he'll reach out to them. So in December of that year, 1977, a man called the police dispatch and told them that... A man called the police dispatch. Jess, are you made up most of these names? Hello, I am the police dispatch. Hello, police dispatch. Table for two.

All right, police dispatch What time do you reckon you'll need that table? 8pm Well, that's going to be difficult We usually have two sessions, one at 7 and 1 at 9.30 would be great, thank you. Police dispatch, can I have a number for that? No. 9-1-1.

All right. You sure I can get you there, okay. See you at 930. A man made a phone call to the police dispatch. He picked up his phone. He dialed 911-1-1. somebody picked up the phone and said police dispatch

he said how'd you know my name this is getting weird this is spooky so he called and he told them that you will find a homicide at 843 South Pershing Nancy Fox

that's all he said what the caller didn't know was that the dispatch had just introduced a new system caller ID oh no it's used his bloody home phone number. The dispatcher knew exactly where the call was coming from and police officers were there.

Police officers were there within two minutes. The call had come from a pay phone at a gas station and when police got there, there was no one there. Police officers were also sent to the address, so 843 South Pershing. Apparently they weren't told why they were being sent there. There was just sort of, there's been a, you know, a call, just go check it out. So they walked around the perimeter of the property and noticed that a window at the back of the house was broken.

and a telephone line was cut. And the officers knew that given recent events that they were going to find a body if they entered that house. So they didn't go inside. They didn't go in. They just... I don't want to see a body today.

That woman is both dead and alive, and I'd prefer alive. All right, see ya. So Nancy Fox, who was a 25-year-old, part-time secretary, was found inside the house and she was face down on the bed again, bound, and she had been strangled. So the police turned their attention.

attention to the phone call because again there's like there's DNA evidence but there's there's no matches they can't find anything and keeping in mind it's the 70s so it's not quite as up to date as we probably are now obviously so they turn their attention to the phone call they had a witness who pulled up to use the pay phone and obviously it was occupied so they went into the gas station to get changed came out and the person was gone and the phone was just hanging from the what's it called the receiver yeah It's always left hanging in movies and things. Yeah.

It was... It's just sort of swinging in the wind. Very dramatically left hanging. That's right. So I guess they're just taken off the thing so no one can call in or something? Or is it just from a struggle? I think it's usually like, be there at six. Let's drop it and leave.

Yeah. Oh, that's what happens in the movies. I don't know if this guy did that. So once again, though, the description was white male, 5-8 or 5-9, light hair. Mommy's age. It was a very broad and very vague description. So nothing all that useful. So the BTK killer had now taken the lives of seven victims

and the police were still struggling for a solid lead. I mean, there are all sort of different types of people. Like a mom, like this is a 25-year-old. Like, I don't know if she's single, but, you know, on her own. The first one was the whole family. Like, it's crazy. Yeah, it's quite a right. There's no sort of pattern.

And that's something that keeps coming up for them. There was a cool quote from the chief of police at the time was like, the only thing that was consistent was that he was inconsistent. It's like, that's beautiful. He's like, I wrote that. I wrote that. My wife thought that was amazing. I practiced that in front of the mirror.

She said, Chief, which she calls me, which I like. You're going to nail this press conference. And I have, until I started talking about this moment, any questions about the killer. The police still hadn't made public knowledge that there was a serial killer in the community. They still hadn't really released that. The following year in January of 1978, so probably only a month or so later, The BTK killer sent a postcard to the Wichita Eagle newspaper. Why is he involved?

Why are he sending him? Why do he send him? Because they're friends. All right. A postcard. Wish you were here. It had a poem called Shirley Locke and it was signed BTK. It made references to Shirley Vianne and also mentioned Nancy Fox.

And this is interesting. The letter never made it to the newsroom as it was sent to the wrong department. They incorrectly thought it was like a Valentine's Day. letter or something. They published it on Valentine's Day and the love letters with those little love heart pictures. Oh, fucking.

Oh, no. I sent it to the Valentine's department. Oh, was that wrong? What? Just under two weeks later, BTK sent another letter this time to Cake TV, K-A-K-E-TV. That sounds like a community station. It was like, no, it's one of the biggest stations in the city. because the

Wichita Eagle hadn't published his first letter the second letter started with a question how many people do I have to kill before I get some publicity creepy that's the question

you should have started this episode with fuck you're right damn it I'm not good at this I would have said none just just make up to a post or talk to it call the Eagle newspaper

he'll know what to do just give him your press release fuck In the letter, he admitted to all of the murders and left detailed drawings and information about the crimes. The Chief of Police, who I sort of mentioned before, Richard Lemunion. I love this, Chief.

Yeah, he's awesome. He appeared on TV10 News to discuss the crimes and alert the community to the fact that there was a serial killer and that the police did not have a solid lead. You better believe he used his line. The only thing that's consistent, as is inconsistent.

Yeah, Chief, you said that four times. That's not helpful. You've said that four times in a three-minute interview. He later admits that the press conference was orchestrated to firstly warn the public, but also to encourage the killer to communicate with them in writing, rather than sending them more bodies. So like, we acknowledge you now, just write to us. Don't kill more people, please.

This is not how normal people talk. Yeah. Let's use our words, not our bodies. Oh, well, actually. Body language. Yeah, sometimes we can use our bodies. Chief, you've done it again. The announcement caused,

panic in the community and police were dispatched to homes because people didn't feel safe. So the police encouraged people to call them to come out and do house checks if they, you know, if they got home and something didn't seem quite right. They encouraged them to call them if they needed someone to do housework. Just come to, you know, I'll vacuum. So they'd check the premises. Of course, they'd check the closets, guns drawn in order for people to feel safe in their home.

So it's really, it's causing quite a stir. It's basically like a mum or a dad going into a little kid's bedroom. I'll check in the... Look, no monster in there. Yeah, you're gun drawn. It's exactly that. Like a mum or a dad in America. Always get your sweat.

See no monster in there, no monster under the bed. Don't worry, Timmy, if there's a monster, he's got three bullets in his skull. Okay, no, night. Mom, the monster's bleeding. Shut up, Tim. Oh, the dog was under there. The dog was the monster all along. The monster was within us all along.

So again, BTK disappeared and he wasn't heard from for another year until April of 1979. So on a particular night of the week, let's say Wednesday. I'm not sure exactly what night of the week. I could look up what day. I'm going to look up what day of the week that was. I'm guessing a Friday. I've got a Friday night feeling about this. Friday night.

I was going to say Wednesday. Yeah, you feel that. Also, his name is Robert Patrick. Saturday Saturday Saturday Saturday Normally on a Saturday night

Anna Williams who was a woman in her 60s She was always out At some sort of event Let's say a class Or a social thing Dave, feel in a bit of colour there Yeah

What do you reckon Anna would be doing? Ballet in the 60s Okay, yep She's doing seniors ballet I'm going to say seniors He's underwater ballet. Underwater ballet. On Saturday night.

Yeah, and pottery class. All in one? Yeah. God, she's busy. What month of the year is this? This is in April. Oh, okay, that could be warm enough, maybe. Oh, outdoor pool, you think?

Yeah. Wow. Saturday night. Okay. That's party time. It's a recipe for pneumonia. Do you picture the pottery wheels floating on floating devices or on the side of the pool, so they do their ballet, then they come potter?

No, I was imagining they would sort of do some potting. and then change into their togs in the pool. One then the other, not at the same time. Backwards and forth, backwards and forwards. Maybe two groups. They sort of like tag each other out. Oh, yeah, that works too. Because the pool's not that big.

Yeah, you're right. It's community. And then they can use the water from the pool to wet the clay. Yeah. And also wash the clay off their hands in the pool. It gets a very clay. Yeah, it's a very brown pool. Ballet gets harder and harder.

They really build up their muscles. resistant strain. Perfect. Which is what I assume she was doing on a Saturday night when something normal happened. Well, she would normally be home at the same time. But on this particular night, the 28th of April, she didn't come home and instead she decided to stay with her daughter.

When she returned home the next day, her house had been broken into and the telephone line had been cut. She thought it was just a sort of a standard robbery. Obviously she was a bit creeped out by it, but she was like, okay, well, I've been robbed. Lucky I wasn't here. Several months later, though, a letter was sent that had some of Anna's personal items in it and some very graphic drawings. Now, like in all the interviews on the documentary, they wouldn't explain what the drawings were.

But for like grown men to be like, oh, it probably wasn't good. The letter asked Anna why she hadn't come home. Oh, so it was sent to her. Yeah. And it implied that she would have been victim number eight. months later she got that couple months later so she was really disturbed by the event like all the police was saying that like it

it upset her and like obviously made her feel really uncomfortable and unsafe but like all women in the community were feeling really unsafe by that point and it was so deeply disturbed by it all that she actually moved into state for fear that the BTK killer would return for her so she left her home i reckon i'd do the same absolutely terrifying And again, with no pattern and no link between the victims, police were completely stumped. So we've gone from a family to a single mom to just a single woman to a woman in her 60s. Right.

You'd always be looking over your shoulder there, even if you moved into state. Like if this person's that deranged and they want you. Yeah, why? But you don't know if they want you specifically or you just happen to be the target that time. I just wouldn't. No, exactly. You wouldn't know. So of course you would think that.

Is Kansas a nice place, Dave? I've never heard anything bad about it. That's where Toto and that's from, right? Correct. And also the Chiefs, maybe in football? Kansas City Chiefs? I keep again. Every time I ask that generally.

You look at us like we should know. Yeah, that's dumb on your part. Is it a capital, Topeka? Is that the capital? That's all I know. Isn't that the girlfriend from Boy Meets World? Ah, I think it is. Topanga.

Damn it. It is Topeka. It's the capital. And the band, Kansas, had a hit song with Dust in the Wind, which was sung at Blue's funeral in old school. You're my boy, Blue. Great tune. Also, they play at the end of Anchorman when the credits roll. Who is Blue?

Blue's the old fella in old school. Oh, sorry, I thought that was a person. Yeah, my boy, Blue. Yeah, he's a person. Can I go on? Please do. The police then released the Nancy Fox phone call in the hope that someone would recognize the voice,

but no one came forward. Oh, the one saying there's been a murder, blah, blah. In the early 80s, a task force was put together to work full-time on the BTK killer case. There were eight police officers dedicated to the task, and the task force was called Ghostbusters. No. Yes.

Are you shitting me? I'm not shitting you. Is this before the movie of Ghostbusters? Possibly. I think it must be right. Early 80s? Maybe that's, it must be your crossover. It was like 84, I think, this started.

Maybe they were inspired by the movie. Probably, yeah. 1984 film. Yeah, there you go. So it was around the same time, so they called themselves Ghostbusters. It's like naming yourself up for a comedy now. Groundhog Day. That's it.

Usually of Bill Murray. Yeah, Caddyshack. Okay. What about fun? A very Murray Christmas. The Darjeeling Limited. The Royals. No, the Royal Teninbales.

All right. Fun game. Apparently, their attention turned to the letters that had been sent, which were typed on a typewriter. However, the letters were actually photocopies of the originals, and the copier takes a larger image than the original, so therefore they couldn't narrow down the make of the typewriter. Oh, that's genius.

But, with the help of Xerox, they were able to figure out the make of the copy of machine, and even the roll length of paper, which meant they could narrow it down to a copier in the library of Wichita State University. Wow. The one copy. There was one in Wichita State University

and then one at the library, which is where the letter was first stashed in engineering. I was thinking about that with the letter. Obviously no security cameras there at a public library. I wonder if that would be the case now if they would be able to figure someone out with that. I think, yeah, I think they could probably, if this had happened today, I think they would have been a lot more ways for them to find him a lot quicker.

But so even with the help of Xerox, it wasn't that helpful because the library is obviously quite public and anyone could have accessed it. So it didn't narrow it down. They were thinking maybe as he a student, I don't know. After two years and no success, the Ghostbusters Task Force was shut down and that was in 1986. About a month later, though, there was another murder. and this time it was a woman called Vicky Wegerl

Were girl? We're gel And the Ghostbusters met and discussed the murder But they concluded it was not the BTK killer They're like not related It was too consistent with the other murders To be BTK Now let's jump forward to March of 2004

What? What happened in the intervening time? So that's what 18 years forward Yep The Wichita Eagle received another letter. The letter contained three photographs, one of which was a photocopy

of Vicki Wagell's driver's license, which had gone missing after her murder. The letter had the return address Bill Thomas Kilman, BTK. Also Kilman, he's like, maybe they won't get it unless I put the word kill in.

Yeah. Could have gone like Kirkwood. Yeah. Cronenberg's disease, Cronenberg's disease, etc. Other names ending with K. Killen. Killen.

No, that's similar to Kilman. Killer. Killer. There we go. The killers. Killbot 3,000. So that was March 2004. In December...

So in this intervening time, there'd been no letters or murders. No. I hadn't heard anything for 18 years. In December, Wichita Police received another package from the BTK killer. This time, the package was found in Wichita's Murdoch Park and had the driver's license of Nancy Fox, which was noted as stolen from the crime scene, as well as a doll that was

symbolically bound at the hands and feet and had a plastic bag tied over its head. Fuck. In January of 2005, a serial box was attempted to be left in the bed of a pickup truck at Home Depot in Wichita, but the box was discarded by the truck's owner. It was only later retrieved from the trash after the BTK killer asked what had become of it in a later message. So they're like, I left a cereal box.

Why didn't you do anything with it? They're like, we never got that. In the back of someone's... In the back of someone's truck. So weird. Like, how would you think it was going to get banned? Serial killer, serial box, Dave? Do the fucking maths, mate.

That's good. That is good. I don't move as fast as you. You know that. So don't make fun. Just be happy you're good, right? Sorry, Dave. Here we start to get a bit more like technology,

because obviously we've gone from the early 80s to 2005. So surveillance tape of the parking lot from that date revealed a distant figure driving a black Jeep Cherokee leaving the box in the pickup. In February, more postcards were sent to Cake TV and another serial box left at a rural location was found to contain another bound doll, apparently meant to symbolise the murder of 11-year-old Josephine Otero. In his letters to police, BTK asked if his writings, if put on a floppy deal, could be traced or not. The police answered his question in a newspaper ad posted in the Wichita Eagle

saying it would be safe to use a floppy disk. On February 16, 2005, he sent a purple 1.44 megabyte floppy disk to Fox TV. And police found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to BTK on the floppy disk. Holy crap, they're going to get him because of a floppy disk. The metadata contained Christ Lutheran Church and the document was marked as last modified by Dennis. An internet search determined that a Dennis Radar was president of the church council. So a little bit of background on Dennis Radar.

He was born in Pittsburgh but he grew up in Wichita. He spent four years. Is this a red herring Dave? Do you think he left that metadata on there on purpose? Yeah, because he's just played it done by asking. Have I left some metadata of my friend Dennis on there? Would you think it was him? They answer in the newspaper.

Absolutely not. No, we wouldn't know, for sure. Dennis spent four years at the Air Force and then worked in the meat department of an IGA supermarket. He married Paula Dietz on the 22nd of May, 1971, and they had two children. He attended Butler County Community College in El Dorado, earning an associate degree in electronics in 70, and he enrolled in Wichita State University and graduated in 1979 with the bachelor's in administration of justice.

Is that the uni where the photocopy year was? And I was about the similar time, but he started killing when he had a child, which is fucking fucked. He was a member of the Christ Lutheran Church and had been elected president of the church council. He was also a Cub Scout leader. He worked as a dog catcher in the community.

Sell of the dogs were murdered, but no one noticed. From the Home Depot incident, the police also knew that the BTK owned a black Jeep Cherokee, which I mentioned before. What? So when investigators drove past Raider's house, they noticed a black Jeep Cherokee parked outside. That's our scumbag. The police had strong circumstantial evidence against Raider, but they needed more direct evidence to detain him. They obtained a warrant to test the DNA of a PAP smear Raider's daughter had taken at Kansas State University Medical Clinic when she was a student.

The DNA of the PAPSMEA was processed by the Kansas Bureau of Investigation and demonstrated a familiar match to the DNA on the sample taken from one of the victims. So this indicated that the killer was closely related to Raider's daughter and this was evidence enough for the police to make an arrest. I thought this was a mystery episode. Oh shit! So the docker that I watched was made before 2005.

or it was made, like, it finishes up with them making an arrest, but they're like, oh, they've been arrested. But it was all pre-that. Oh, cool. We'll link to that. Oh, fuck. That's awesome. Didn't you do the math when she said,

mystery for 25 years? 1971. That's longer than 25 years ago. No. That's awesome. I just said mystery. I didn't hear you 25 years. Did I?

That was awesome. I never actually said the word mystery either. Fuck. Let's go back to the tape. Let's restart this episode. That's so funny. Yeah, that's so funny. I think that maybe he says like eluded police for 25 years or something.

But anyway. Who terrorized Richard Tart for 25 years? Oh, I just assumed that he was caught. But yeah, maybe he could have just died. We will link to that documentary to me in this episode. But how crazy is that? That firstly it was metadata and a floppy disk. Also, remember floppy disks?

Yeah, they're the hard ones, right? And the floppy ones are hard disks. The big weird big ones with the holes in the middle that you guys are. probably don't remember. No. Yeah, that's too big. Also, who was using those in 2005?

In 2005. Dennis, you fuckhead. Mate, CD wrong. Oh, we might have been still at school then. CDR. When you're in year nine? Yeah. Using a floppy disk?

I reckon. We definitely didn't use seven and eight. I don't remember. I don't think floppy disks were used. They're like the square ones. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.

It's all CDs by that stage, surely. No. Well, we had floppy disks to like save stuff on at school, though. Yeah, right. Right. Time's weird, isn't it? So weird. Anyway. Did you grow up in the affluent East or not?

Oh my God. It doesn't sound like it. Yeah, I had floppy discs. I had all sorts of different colours. One for each class. Shut up. But, and then how cool is it that they like use DNA from his daughter? I think that's pretty cool.

I feel a bit violated as her, but anyway. Well, I mean, she had a PAPS mean, that's a violation enough. You guys can't relate. Anyway, so Raider was arrested while driving near his home in Park City shortly afternoon. February 25th, 2005. An officer asked, Mr. Raider, do you know why you're going downtown? And Raider replied, oh, I have suspicions why. Witter to Police, as well as other organizations like the Kansas Bureau of Investigation, the FBI.

They searched his home and vehicle. They seized evidence including computer equipment, a pair of black panty hose retrieved from a shed, and a cylindrical container. The church he attended. Pringle's can. His church, his office at City Hall, and the main branch of the Park City Library were also searched. And at a press conference the next morning, which is police chief, Norman Williams announced the bottom line is BTK is arrested. It's really cool.

Is that the same chief? No, a different chief, because quite a few years later. But the chief says that and everybody just applauds. Like, it's a huge relief in the city. Really cool. People are going to, so he led a church. He was president of like the church committee And he had an office at City Hall

Yeah because he worked as a dog catcher And a compliance officer there So on February This is like finishing up On February 28, 2005 Raider was charged with 10 counts of first degree murder At Raiders August 18th sentencing Victim's families made statements

After which Raider apologized in a rambling 30 minute monologue But the prosecutor likened to an Academy Award Acceptance speech like he was just sort of rambling and it's weird because you should have played him off there's footage of him speaking and he's like I mean he's quite eloquent and you probably wouldn't really know just talking to him what he's capable of yeah I guess if he's been elected the president of the church he's probably trustworthy did did did he explain yeah he talks

well yeah he talks a little bit about it but he also talks about um Like, there's not a heap of, I haven't seen a heap of him speaking. I haven't seen this acceptance speech type monologue. But when he's talking, he talks about serial killers, like, as if he's read up on them. It's really interesting just because you're like, no, that's you. Like, you're talking about you there. But he's very matter of fact, and he's very, like, he's just to answer all the questions. It's almost like he was kind of like, all right, you got me.

Really strange. Because he, like, it was like he wanted to, like, why was he? He kept reaching out like he sort of wanted to be... Yeah. Yeah, like over a decade had gone past and people had the case had gone cold. He could have stayed underground. Yeah. And what's interesting too is like as soon as he was arrested,

his wife was given like an immediate divorce. Like none of the paperwork, just nut your divorce from him. Really? Yeah. Has she spoken about it? Not that I was aware of. He's got two kids too. How would you feel?

Imagine if that was your dad. And it was happening when you were all living together. So you're going, oh, so he just, that night he went out. Oh, fucking. Yeah. Oof. He was sentenced to 10 consecutive life sentences with a minimum of 175 years. Okay.

Kansas has no death penalty at the time of the murders. And on the 19th of August, he was moved to the Eldorado Correctional facility. According to witnesses, he talked about innocuous topics such as the weather during the 40-minute drive to El Dorado, but began to cry when the victim's family's statements from the court proceedings came on the radio. So maybe he has some sort of remorse, I don't know. He is still currently in prison. According to what I could find, he's now in solitary confinement for his protection, because I don't think serial killers would be too popular in prison.

And he gets one hour of exercise a day and showers three times a week. That is his life for the rest of his existence. Right. And how old is he vaguely now? Good question. He is 72. Wow, okay. So he was sort of...

He was born in 45. So the first one, he was like in his 30s, maybe, late 20s, early 30s. And they didn't get him until he was in his, what, early 60s. Yep. Wow, that is absolutely crazy. Yeah. What a story, huh? So that is my report on the BT.

K killer. Good stuff, JP. Stuff, JP. I had you hang in there like it was a mystery. I thought it was a mystery. And I knew the whole time who it was, but I didn't say it. Well, you could have stopped a lot of people dying. I knew the whole time, fuckos.

I knew from the first day. Yeah. He told me. I said, shut up, dad. Just to clarify, the BTK killer is not my father, John Perkins. Dennis. He is a normal human being. Fuck.

Who's never been to Wichita. And his name was Dennis. Dennis. I mean, have a look at him. Like he, oh, he looks a bit like a serial killer. Yeah. Like you can see it. Totally, but like a lot of like sort of middle-aged dads do.

If you put a serial killer lens on a lot of dads, you're like, oh yeah, that man would kill. It's like, I'm just a dad. Any mugshot makes you look like a serial killer in a way, doesn't it? Yeah, or anything that's sort of like, I don't know, it's, if you're, if you're, if you, if you, your bolding, you're more likely to kill. Sure. Is that a thing? No.

You know, you look like one. So yeah, there we go. Well, thank you so much for everyone. All the sickos that requested that topic. I'm sorry if I missed anyone, if there might have been people who have made suggestions more recently that either in the new hat or we haven't seen yet, sorry. But there you go. That's the report.

That was fascinating. Thank you so much, Matt. That means a lot to me. No, I did enjoy that. I will not kill you. Should we, thanks and Patreon people, and give them serial killer names. Oh, wow. Okay.

No? Too far? Matt doesn't want to. Never mind. Yeah, right. Something like BTK. No, let's give them nice three-letter. What do you call those things?

Initialism names. Okay. Is that an initialism? Yeah. Let's give them initialisms. It's hard to say. All right, well, shall I kick? Please.

Yes, we just like to thank people through, let's support the show through Patreon. Patreon.com slash do go on pod. You get stuff in exchange for supporting the pod, including a bonus episode once a month. And soon we are nearly at our monthly goal, or our overall goal, which means we'll do two bonus episodes a month for our Patreon's.

And we also like to thank people. So Matt, it's going to kick us off now. I love to thank. From Maryland, in the United States, I believe, Mr. Aaron Frazier. Frazer. Arrha.

Fraser. A phrase. All right, if he's the AFM, what does that stand for? Always friendly man. Oh, that's good. Nice one. That's our Aaron.

He's the best of the best. I'd also love to think. From Yaguna in New South Wales, Australia. Yaguna. Yaguna. Tanya Miles. Frequent. communicator on the social media.

I seem to remember writing Tanya's Christmas card. Lucky Tanya. You got the worst handwriting out of all of us. Yeah, sorry, Tanya. Tanya, can you read it? So, is that what we're doing? We're going TMI then. TMI.

Have you got there, Bob? The most? This is my year. The magic year. The magic year. Wow. So Tanya's year this year? Welcome, Tanya, to your magic year.

Dave, would you like to thank some listeners? I would like to thank. From Oklahoma. Oh, Oklahoma, when the wind comes sweeping down the plane. And I hope I don't mispronounce this name, because I do that a lot on the show. You do. You do. From Oklahoma.

Donk, don't 15. Donk. Thank you, D-O-N-K. Donk-2015. This one's hard because then it's like D-2-O. Down to... D-T. Oh yeah, okay

Down to What's the third bit? I can only think of one oh I don't think you've ostracized, not right? Down to oral. Down to oral. No, he's a dentist. He's not DTF, he's DTO, is that you think?

All right, sorry, donk, you're DTO. Donk is great. Here in Australia, where's he from? Oklahoma, so US. All right, don't here. I don't know. It probably means the same. It means the engine in a car.

I've never heard that. Why do you don't like that? The donk. Yeah, don't. Nice don't. Show us your don't. No, that's not what it is. But you've been lied to.

No, that's not a thing. Matt's made that up. I can see his face. You've made it up. You've bloody got me, Matt. That's a muscle car engine. Stop it. Check out the don't.

You don't have a muscle car. Check out my don't. All right, I've got one more person to thank. This person, address unknown. Okay. They didn't trust us with their address, is what I'm gathering. All the way from who knows where, but we thank her for support. Abigail Hanson.

Abigail Hanson. Great name. It's good, isn't it? I'm picturing a yodler. Hmm. Would that be fair? Can you give us a yodel again? Yolet.

It's so much better than you'd expect, isn't it? It is actually. So you're saying, H, you want to be unknown? Yeah. I hate you. Well, the A is clear. It's got to be adult. Adult.

Hair. Adult hair. Unknown. Okay. We don't know her hair color? Adult. A happy unicorn. That is nice.

That's fucking adorable. Okay. Mine was way worse. A huge underbite. No one wants them. That's you. in dog form, I think. No, that's over by it, isn't it?

Stephen. Isn't that right, Stephen? It is not right. Thank you. You got a couple here. Yeah, I got them. Okay, so I would like to thank from Mount Waverley,

which is where I grew up and we'll be living again soon. Ooh, neighbors. Magic. Stephen Edmonds. Stephen Edmonds. So S-E-N-E-N-E-M-E-M-S. So S-E-N-E-N.

CM. Still eating mangoes, which is a great summary fruit. Delicious. Still, after all these years. Still eating mangoes. Classic Stephen. Oh, good for you.

Everything's coming up, mangoes. And I would also like to thank from Hull. Hull, the part of the ship that is very important. Doesn't they call that a donk? The donks under the Hull. Just everything's a donk to us now. I'd like to thank, Coffee smiles.

This goes another... Coffy? Coffy. I say Coffy, but... I would have said Coffey, but I've never heard it said. He is the official face of Hull 2017, so not anymore. Coffie, I'm so sorry. He's a great tweeter.

We appreciate you a lot. KS.H. I don't know. Is his last time really smiles? Because I've seen your profile picture, and you've got a great smile, my friend. No, I don't think it is. I think that's his... All right.

He's just a great smile. Yeah. He's the smile maker. Oh, that's his Twitter thing, isn't? Keep smiling happy. Yes. Oh, Kofi. Keep smiling, comma.

Happy. Happiness. Can you give a better one? Keep smiling. Hull. Yes, keep smiling Hull. Thank God. Wait, I used the H from H for Hull.

And we've used smiling from smiles. We've changed one word. We've really ripped you off there, Kofy. Sorry, that's okay. Let us know if that's not good enough. But from my understanding of you as a person, everything is good enough. I think that would be fine. You were too positive.

I'm always very friendly. Kick small hippos. No, Jay. No, don't kick. Kiss. Kiss small hippos. Damn it, I'm an idiot. I'm sorry.

Kiss small hippos. That's nice. That's cute. Well, I'm thinking if it's a BTA could have been something nice. Behind the killer. Being the killer. No. Blonde.

The killer. Nah, that's silly. Beautiful. The killer. Yeah, that's good. Oh, no. Fuck, silly killer. But beautiful.

Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful this killer. Yeah, that guy. Nah. He doesn't deserve a happy one that guy. Oh, I was going to say big tasty kisses. Certainly not.

Certainly not. Oh, why they taste? Oh, they're big. Yeah, come on. Big or tasty kisses. Thanks to everyone that supports our show through Patreon. You do make a big difference to our lives. I mean, we can spend more time watching docos on serial killers.

Thank you for that. Thank you. What a strange career turn we've taken. Yeah, my parents are very proud. Yeah. But we do appreciate that. So patreon.com slash do go on pod. And if you want to suggest a killer or any topic that happened in your hometown or anywhere in the world,

we now have a form that you can fill out we should start linking in in every episode that'll be good link it in the description of this otherwise we have it on our Twitter you'll see it there and yeah you get to tell us why you think we should do the topic and maybe give us a link to something that maybe made you interested in the first place this was satisfying

I couldn't handle another another mystery like the man might be still out there yeah I don't like those ones Do you reckon that lady moved back to the state 20 years later? Nah. She was pretty old. Oh, yeah. She was 16 in the 70s.

I hope she lived out a great laugh. Yeah. Yeah. That fucking, ah. Nah. Yeah, big, tasty kisses. Anyway.

Anyway, we'll be back next week with another episode. There is something I just, because something that I kind of thought maybe is what he was thinking. like that kind of wild serial killer it's like a banana logic don't you think it's like it doesn't fully make sense it's like it's like his head's bananas it's banana logic don't you think banana the killer banana the killer he is bananas yeah don't you think yeah he's bananas

all right guys thank you so much until next week I'll say thank you and goodbye later this podcast is part of the planet Podcasting Network. Visit planetbcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want, it's up to you. I've hit record, Matt. I could be embedded by 10. It's exciting.

Hi, future Jess. Love you. You're probably in Sydney. Hey, you should put this at the end. Okay. This will be a fun little bonus bit at the end for everyone. Can I say a swear? You're going on.

Dog balls. Oh, fucked up my chance. You fucked up my chance. You could have said any swear. You could have said any swear, just gave you permission. And you said dog balls. I didn't want to go hard. Actually, you're the one who said that we weren't allowed to swear anymore.

Yeah. You fucking... I never said that. You dog ball. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. Wherever we go, we always hear six months later, oh, you should come to Manchester.

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