Two In The Think Tank - 119 - Queens of Sydney Underworld

Episode Date: January 31, 2018

From the 1920's, Kate Leigh and Tilly Devine did two things - they ran the Sydney Underworld and they HATED each other. This week we delve into the lives of these two fascinating women and their bitter feud!Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSubmit a topic idea directly to the hat: http://bit.ly/DoGoOnHat Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail]: http://www.rejectedprincesses.com/princesses/kate-leigh-and-tilly-devinehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Leighhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilly_Devinehttps://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/magazine/galleries/tilly-devine-and-the-razor-gang-wars  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody, Jess and Dave, just jumping in really quickly at the top here to make sure that you are across all the details for our upcoming Christmas show. That's right, we are doing a live show in Melbourne Saturday December the 2nd, 2023, our final podcast of the year, our Christmas special. It's downstairs at Morris House, which usually be called the European beer cafe. On Saturday December the 2nd, 2023 at 4.30pm, come along, come one, come all, and get tickets at dogoonpod.com. Hi, I am Kendra Adachi, and I host the Lazy Genius Podcast.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of Dugo. My name is Dave Warnicky and I'm here as always with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hey Dave, hey Jess. Hello Dave Warnicky and I'm here as always with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hey Dave, hey Jess. Hello, Dave Warnicky and Matt Stewart. I love this song. I'm gonna talk this quas- slowly. Matt's got a new phone. The whole episode. That's ringing.

That phone is ringing. He wants everyone to know that he's got a Google phone now. What? How do I answer it? What are you talking about? Where's the answering bit? Oh, it stopped. Okay. You couldn't figure how to answer it. It was not clear. Hang on, I'm going to call you now because I want to see what it looks like. I didn't see. All right, get that final clear now, isn't it? But I think I must have flicked out of it at the time. I'll go to, you're not saved in my favourites if we're being us, so I've just got to find

you here. I've got to do even any, you could have favourites. Yeah, you wouldn't know that. There's Matt Stewart. Hey, don't touch your phone. I'm calling you. Shall I swap habit with Matt? Oh, that wasn't happening.

You press the fucking answer button. That wasn't happening. It's a green phone button. There's literally a green phone button. Sorry, can we hold that? Hello? Hello. That wasn't happening. It's a green phone button. It's literally a green phone. Sorry, sorry, can we hold that? Hello? Hello? That's me. Oh, bloody hell, Jess isn't able to operate her phone.

She's bummed out of you again. Frank, cool. Yeah, I'm at the front, I'm pranking you. Feel so dear. I did it recently. Remember when you used to prank someone, if you didn't have any credit and they'd call you back. Yeah.

Two rings. And if they answer you'd be like, hang up This is a prank. Don't answer. It's a prank Yeah, I pranked someone recently to let me back into the house I'd message them as I left. I was gonna prank you and I'm back so you can let me in We have a fantastic episode for you this week. I'm sure I don't I can't I. I was gonna say, how, what do you go to some inside knowledge? I can't categorically say that, but I'm confident that Jess Perkins who has been bringing it for the report slightly,

the BTK killer last episode. One of the best we've ever done in my opinion. Really? Yeah, that's one of my tops. That's right up there with the Colour Bomb Killer. You're cheating. Oh, that's nice. Especially because during it,

I realized it was a solved mystery and not a mystery. Yeah, that was such a good, one of the best moments of my life. I never said mystery so I'm not really sure where you got that from but you had it in your head and that's fine. I think Dave said it maybe or something. Yeah, from a poison doom, poison doom. Anyway, I'm glad I wasn't paying close enough attention early and was late. Finally, you not paying attention pays off. Give you nice little buzz there.

So no pressure, Jess, but as your report again, and can you back up your best report ever with your new best report ever? Yes, is the answer to that question. Oh yeah, I'm on board. Now, if you haven't heard this show before, one of us is assigned a topic by the listeners, people suggest topics and we pick them.

And this week it is, Jess has turned a report on a topic that Matt and I have no idea what it is And this one I believe was voted by the patreon supporters That's right the patreon supporters are voting for my episodes now and I put I put to the hat Four options. Okay, and I said which of these bad asses Would you like me to report on? We do love a good bad ass on this show. Yeah, we've done quite a few. And honestly, I wanted to do this topic.

This is the one that I wanted, but I thought I'm not sure if this is going to get picked because there was some good contenders in there. There's some good bad asses. But the people, I don't know how they knew, but they knew, and they made a very good choice. So I do have a question, I wrote a question just before, while you were rambling, I wrote a question. And my question to you, boys, is, who ran the Sydney Underworld in the 1920s? I'm Australian, badass, potentially.

Who ran the Sydney Underworld? 20s, 30s, to the 50s. I don't know anything about it. I couldn't, would I have heard of this person? I hadn't. So it's some way between the Ned Kelly's and the Chopper reads of the Australian Underworld. Yeah, about halfway between them, right?

Yeah. So what was, um, wait, when was Ned Kelly? It was Ned Kelly 17, he was 1800s, right? Yeah. Yeah, mid to late 1800s. Anyway, is there been an underbelly series about it? Yes. Right, is it a he or a she? She.

Oh, that's cool. I haven't seen. Underbelly Razer would be the one that you guys have seen. Oh, it's the Razer gang, I've heard of that. But I never saw it. It's not Squizzy Taylor. No, but in the same sort of world, I don't talk about Squizzy at all.

I don't think they were like linked, but it's around the same time. So is it to do with the Razer Gang though? It is to do with the Razer Gangs. Have you heard of the names of Kate Lee and Tilly Devine? No, the rings of Bell. No, they just spent great names. Such good names, right?

Kate Lee and Tilly Devine. Well, I mean,, Tilly Divine is the good one. Yeah, I think Divine is doing a lot of the work there. Katelyn is not bad. Yeah, Katelyn. Tilly Divine is fucking good. Katelyn, Leeveenium, now you. Katelyn, Katelyn, anymore. Which Aussie rock song are you referencing this time that I don't know? Oh my god. Right, Karen. Oh really? What song? That's in the video, the guy singing it.

No, it's a woman, sorry. Yeah, I can't remember. It's a woman singing Ken Lee. It was on a set of... I can't live. Like on an Australian Idol kind of audition show. American Idol. Right, and they're terrible are they?

Ken Lee. Yeah, they're very good. Remember the judges crying. and they're terrible are they? Ken Lee. Yeah, they're very good. Remember the judges like crying while they're singing Ken Lee. Because they didn't know the words. That is hilarious. What other real words can't live? Pretty sure it was a language barrier too to be honest. Oh, okay. Oh, so you're not good people but it was a funny video.

Oh no. Anyway, I'll just move on you monsters. I'll tell you a little bit about the individuals firstly and then how they kind of clashed. Oh, they're not friendly. No, very cool. Bit of rivals. So Kate Lee was born on the 10th of March 1881 in Dubbo, New South Wales. She was the eighth child of Roman Catholic parents, Timothy Beane, who is a bootmaker, and his wife, Charlotte.

Beane? Or Ben? Ben. Right, Ben. Eighth child. She was the eighth child. Question. Yep.

Do they? No. What's causing you? Just a little something. Are we cooking up over there? It's very good. It's very good. Sex. How good is Dubbo as a name of a town? It's very good. It's very good. Six.

How good is Dubbo as a name of a town? City town, follow it. Dubbo. It is? Dubbo. I listened to a podcast about these two. I started to listen to one. It was done by an American woman whose voice I didn't like anyway.

So I didn't listen to much. But she said Dubbo is like Dubbo. Dubbo. And it really made me laugh. Dubbo. I don't know why. I was like, if, I mean, I understand you'd probably read it that way

and we probably mispronounced towns all the time. Oh, we, yeah, we mispronounced our own town. It should be Melbourne. Should be Melbourne. But you can also just put in like any word and pronunciation into the internet and it tells you. Because a lot of the time, they are wrong. Don't tell me that gesture.

Cartilage. You're ruining a lot of what I do on the show. That's true. It's very often. It takes me long enough to write the report without having to go through every third word and pronounce it correctly. The, interesting.

What a set to her. To her. So yeah, she was one of many children. She had a bit of a rough childhood. She was neglected by her parents. Spent time in a girl's home when she was 12. Who's home? Which girl? Just a friend? Pretty nice of them to take her in.

Yeah, she's about me in some time when we turn an afternoon, a bit of a play date. The sleepover? I don't know. I ran for school one day. It's never left. Lady some sort of craft. That's cool. Very cute.

Oh, that's nice. Yeah, so apart from the neglected child, the girls that visit to a friend's house was nice. That's not something. It's good to see it. Here there was a little bright moment. Good to have a highlight. Yeah. That one afternoon. Kate had a daughter named Eileen in 1900 when Kate was 19 and unmarried. 19 and unmarried. That is, is that scandalous? That's scandalous. The unmarried part, not so much the 19 at that time. But yeah, so she had a child out of wedlock. 19, she was 19. That is scandalous. scandalous. Like the band scandalous, who won the second series of pop stars. I was thinking that too. I also was thinking about them. Me, myself, and I also, they're one.

That's amazing. As you were doing that, you were rubbing your eye. I know. Most doctors probably have to say, I, it's very confusing. I was just going to say, imagine, I explained who they were, but I imagine a lot of international listeners would have known anyway. Obviously. Of course.

Some of their many appearances on the late shows. Yeah. The circuits. They would have done one of those circuits. They went platinum in there. Yeah, I reckon they would have, they would have, yeah. Platinum in Australia, which is 40,000. Platinum in America, which is one million there.

Quite a, a little bit of a different. We can, we can all name every member of that band. Yeah. The twins. Greg. Uh, er, er, er, Tronamo. Tronamo. Tronamo. Tronamo. Tronimo Tronimo Chimeraquai Chimeraquai and Sally and the other Greg

That was one big rig. Oh, you got to have a big rig. You can't rely on your first Greg. No, no, no So in 1902 so two years after her daughter was born, she married James Ernest Lee, who was known as Jack. Jack Lee was born in New South Wales to a Chinese father and Australian-born mother, and became an illegal bookmaker and petty criminal. They separated three years later in 1905 when Jack was imprisoned for assault and robbery, and following his trial, Kate was convicted of perjury and for being an accomplice to the assault after being accused of lying under oath to protect her husband. But she appealed to the conviction and it was overturned. So early in

their marriage, bit of drama there, the marriage broke up soon after the trial, but they weren't divorced for a while till that 1921. She anglicised her, his surname, because his Asian background was L. double E. She anglicised it to L. E. I. G. H. And she was mostly known by that name for the rest of her life regardless of future marriages. She still kind of went by that first married name. She married for the second time in 1922

to a Western Australian-born musician, Edward Joseph Teddy Barry. Some good names in here too. Teddy Barry is pretty good. Yeah, it seems like everyone had to have an unrelated nickname. There's so many, I think every name in here was like something, something quotation marks.

No, it was, yeah, but like just another name, usually that Jack guy, his name was James. James has abbreviations. Yeah. Jack's like a John, right? So why is he James? And he's, no, James something, something. Jack, yeah.

I suppose this one, Edward to Teddy makes sense. Okay. I stand corrected. Wasn't his last name different or something? Barry. Teddy Barry. His first name's Edward. I thought that was also a his last name different or something? Barry. Teddy Barry. His first name's Edward. I thought that was awesome.

Yeah, Teddy's classic Edward. I like Teddy Barry. Teddy Barry is cool. He was a sly grog dealer and a small time criminal. And the marriage only lasted for a few years. A sly grog shop. This is the definition. He's an Australian term for an unlicensed hotel or liquor store,

often with the added suggestion of selling poor quality liquor, a place where alcoholic beverages are sold by an unlicensed vendor. Okay, so if that's a suggestion, can go to a bar that's legal on a salesman's bed, legal why aren't you going there? Because there's cheaper? It's cheap but also, and I talk more about it later, but the laws changed that meant

that like public bars had to close at 6 p.m. They could have sold alcohol after that. So people like Kate went into the business of Sly Grog. Right. Grog means there's a thing for booze here. Well, booze a thing for liquor. Grog is a naval term originally referring to a rum and water mixture. In the Australian context, Grog was used to describe diluted,

adulterated and substandard rum. In the early decades of the Australian colonies, Grog was often the only alcoholic beverage available to the working classes. Eventually, in Australia, the word Grog came to be used as a slang term for any alcoholic beverage. That's interesting. I had no idea where they came from. Yeah. That's great. It's funny. You said they used to close at six, wasn't it?

Yeah. Because I've heard there was a term and I think it must have, I'm pretty sure I've heard my old man say, but maybe he was talking about from generation before him. But I'm, I think it lasts in Australia for quite a while. They call it the six o'clock swill. Correct. Where everyone would just buy multiple drinks right at the closing time,

and then everyone gets booted out. So there's all these boozed up people early in the evening. Yeah. Like most days. A wee, what a weird system. You're a half a century, that was around this time. So this is pretty your dad.

Right. I remember my grandma talking about how in the early days, Victorian bars, pubs closed earlier than New South Wales one. So there was this one across the, she lives on the Murray, which is the border between the two states, the river. And people would go across to the blood house, which was this sort of really seedy place.

And get booze up then, have to sneak back into Victoria. That's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, and like, I suppose if you did live right on the border, may as well. Yeah, take advantage of whichever state or you would definitely set up a pub like next to a bridge, you know, just wander across. This was, it was next to the bridge. The Murray itself is on New South Wales, so you could have it in the water. Is it? Yeah. Then I go half these. No, that's what I thought was a kid on. This is a rip off., so you could have it in the water. Is it? Yeah.

That don't go halvedies. No, that's what I thought was a kid on one. This is ripple, what a ripple. What a wicked heart. But how confusing would it be? Well, it's good. I think it's because Victoria broke off from New South Wales, so I guess New South Wales had the, I don't know.

But that's good to know, I didn't know that. So yeah, even if you're on the bridge then maybe. Yeah. Because you're over, you're just on the bridge then maybe. Yeah. Because you're over it, you're just over the water. Right. Just get shit-faced. Now, shit-faced is defined as it.

Right. So she and her second husband, Teddy, broke up and she had a couple of relationships after that as well, including a relationship with Wally Tomlinson. His first name was Walter. Walter Wally Tomlinson. All right, they all make sense. You've won, didn't. I love Wally Tomlinson, his first name was Walter. Walter Wally Tomlinson. They all make sense. You're one didn't.

I love Wally as well, Wally's a great name. Wally had previously been employed as her bodyguard. And she also later had a de facto relationship for quite a while, but from 1932 to 1949 with her business partner, Henry Jack Baker. Okay, we're back to that weird. So she's onto like partner number two of named Jack.

Right. Who's not really named Jack. He's called Henry. It's confusing. And what's with Hank? He's on Hank short for. Yeah, man. Hank's a great.

I like Hank as well. We're going with Hank. Yeah. But hey, you don't get to decide somebody else's. No, this is bullshit. I know. So she obviously already doing some dodgy stuff if she's already got a bodyguard.

Oh yeah, and I'll get onto that as well. I'm just talking about her personal life for now. Her third and last marriage was in 1950 to an old friend and convicted criminal, Ernest, Alexander, Shiner Ryan. Oh, that's good. Shiner. Shiner Ryan.

Well, that's good. But they married generally lasted about six months and they were separated. So the other engine, that's her personal life. But what did she do to earn the title Queen of the Underworld? Well, I assume she was born into the right family. Of course, just all married in. Yes, and then just replaced the previous monoc. Went through the rigorous training regime. And the etiquettes, I watched Princess Darius

too last night. It was on TV. Is that what's that? And half the way. Right. I was, you know, it was not quite late too. Like I, I, it's pretty risk a movie. I imagine. I was watching something on Netflix. And then I was like, okay, I've got to go do this podcast So I turned it off. When did you say this last night? No, I had to finish. You've become a new me No, I had to finish it. I had I had I was like over halfway through anyway, and it was like 10 there I'd been watching it for ages at least half an hour 45 minutes and I was like how much long does this movie have to go? It was 10 30 at night and I checked and it was good It's a certain hour to go Why you put your kids movie on to 11 30 no one's watching that well one person's Even I had to turn I was like I can't stay up that late. I've got to get to the mocton get some sleep

Anyway, so at least the X rated version. Oh, yeah, there was heaps of fucking yeah that's out Julia Andrews Yeah, there was heaps of fucking yeah, that's out Julian Andrews really And just with that her driver don't they get it on they do Yeah, you haven't seen any fucking Ryan Gosling move. No, I've seen that princess. Do I was one and two Joe That's the driver's name is no more Joe that is correct. That is correct. That is correct. Have you seen it recently? All right last night. Did you watch it last night? Yes. alright, I stayed up to 11.30, guilty. You saw the end, no spoilers, I didn't get to see it. They all die in a horrible place. What?

They said no spoilers. I reckon she remains as the princess. I reckon that's what happens. Is there a princess? D-Dari, still princess. Peace out, baby. No, because in the second one, she's got to find a husband. Oh, of course, I mean, we've all got to find a husband. Yeah, it's pretty fucked, baby. No, because in the second one, she's got to find a husband.

Of course, I mean, we've all got to find a husband. Yeah, it's pretty fucked, actually. I don't like that at all. Why does she have to find a husband? There's some sort of weed clause in there. I can't even... She'll lose her crayon. Yeah, that had 30 days. 30 days, find a husband.

That's good. I've got 27-bottied years of my family or husband. And I don't want one. No, don't hate them. No husband depends who I am. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. I'm a strong independent woman.

Yeah. Man or no man. Woman or no woman, I don't mind. So, that's just a... Priche. Anyway, sorry for that tangent. So, she's queen of the underworld, but why? From the years of 1919 to 1955, her main enterprise was the highly profitable Sly-Grog trade, which I mentioned before. So under the liquor act of 1916,

public bars were forced to close at 6pm. At her peak, I've seen different reports between 20 and 30 bootleg outlets. And they ranged as well for different markets. Franchises. No, kind of so like there was some that were quite cheap and dingy, obviously for more working class people, but they were also some really upper class bars to cater to an upmarket clientele, like even politicians and businessmen and wealthy people, she had them covered. The Dangerous Drugs Amendment Act of 1927 criminalized cocaine. So Kate sourced cocaine from corrupt networks of doctors, dentists, chemists and sailors

and provided it to networks of criminals for distribution. So she got into the cocaine biz. She's fucking cool. I don't say any of this is cool, but these people are impressive. What is cool to me in my books is a drug dealer. That is so cool. Me too.

That's awesome. We never just come across that. You guys do have a let me come in. Yeah. That's kind of cool, Dave. Wow. Who's your favorite drug dealer? Joe from the Princess Diairy. Me too!

He was a real pusher. He was a real pusher. Oh, what, do you guys make big drug fans? How far back does cocaine go? Where does that come from? It's the origin of cocaine. I'll let you fill this one Dave. I think it's from the... the coer plant? Yeah. Do you mean like as a drug? Yeah, the drug would like what like who who came up with it in? I was invented by William Cocaine. I think people have been... Willie Koch. In I think 1910 off top of my head. He invented it. So I was relatively new at this point. I imagine that tribal people have been probably using the plant for stuff for centuries. Tribal people. I don't know exactly its origins, I'm sorry, Matthew.

I didn't think to look that up. I looked up the fucking definition of sly grog. Yeah, that was good. I would enjoy that. Okay, so yeah, she's now distributing cocaine as well. She became a prominent figure in Sydney's brutal razor gang wars of the 20s and 30s. So again with the razor gangs there was another law that came in. There's also laws.

In 1927 it was a pistol licensing act and the New South Wales State Parliament imposed severe penalties for carrying concealed firearms and handguns. So Sydney gang-langed figures then chose razors as their preferred weapons. Right, so you could walk the streets and not be... Because it was, it would be those little, if you've seen the old ones, just like a flick. Yeah, flick, nah. Yeah, so it's kind of like that. And... How interesting.

Yeah. Because they're criminals. That's funny, they're like, well, obviously we don't want to break that law. Well, it's because, and I talk about it a little bit later as well, but the laws became super strict and the police could arrest you for basically anything. Right. So they wouldn't even risk it, but there wasn't really a problem with them having a razor. I guess it's a bit like our barchies who obviously don't want to respect the law, so to speak,

but at the same time, they brought in legislation that you could get, you went and allowed to travel with the colors on,, the outfit with your logo and stuff on it. So, I don't know. I'm going to stop wearing them a bit. Did that help anything? I think it was just, well, the barcay's just stopped wearing it, so they wouldn't get hassled. Yeah.

So, I guess essentially they just went under cover. So, I don't know if I've got a pulse. Under cover barcay? Some of that helps. From a house in Surrey Hills, she ran this like Grog and cocaine businesses as well as I don't know if I can come to cover. So I don't have to help. On the cover blockies. Some of that helps. From a house in Surrey Hills, she ran the slide grog and cocaine businesses as well as prostitution and illegal gambling. She had a gang of men that protected her and worked for her, but she was also pretty handy

with a rifle. It didn't shy away from a flash. And she had a very violent feud with another terrifying woman, Tilly Devine. Now that's a name. It's a good name, a little bit about Tilly, so her name's Matilda. Oh, I love that. Matilda Mary Twiss, fucking good name. Yeah, that's a sick name. She was born in 1900 in London, so she's about 19 years younger than Kate.

Is she a Geyser? Yes. It's a female Geyser. Oh, my fucking Geyser. I don't yeah I don't know what does Giza mean? I've just heard people say that for arm a real Giza. No idea. Should probably know before okay Google what's a Giza? Where's your teeth click then? It's a Geiza! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser!

That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser!

That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser!

That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! That's a geyser! Yes, she was a bit of a hot spray. Yeah. So Tilly, again, she also came from a pretty hard childhood and she was working as a sex worker from a very young age. Some reports saying as young as 12. Although, and it doesn't make it any better, but Tilly has always said that this was her choice. Like it wasn't something that she was forced into. She went to work, I suppose, which is awful.

Her career in prostitution began when she was a teenager and continued long after she was married. She and many English women were usually fanceless sitting on the wide footpaths on the strand at night. And from 1915 onwards, to 1915 to 1919 she spent time in court and lock up for prostitution theft and assault. That's the first world war years on that time. Most of them finished in 1918. At 16 she married an Australian serviceman, Jim De Devine who was born in Brunswick. That's where we are right now. Here we are. He was born in 1892. They had a son a couple of years later.

When Jim returned to Australia, she followed him back on the brideship Wameina. Wameina? Anyway, arriving in Sydney in January of 1920. Her son stayed in London and was brought up by her parents. Isn't that strange? Hmm. Like she followed the husband out here, but they just left the kid behind. That is strange. And I was like, okay, well, they'll go back for it. No. That's it. Left it there to be raised by the grandparents. Sounds like without heaps of knowledge that that was probably best for the kid. Yeah, maybe a better life. Good call. She became infamous in Sydney initially as a sex worker

and then later as a brothel madam and an organized crime entrepreneur. I like that. I like, she's a crime entrepreneur. She's doing crime like no one else. Mad dog sort of just she sounds like someone you're not going to muck with. Absolutely. Both of these women are people you know. So they're kind of the two the big dogs in the in the town. Yeah. In the crime startup world. That's right. I mean,

there's always a lot of games. There's other games. That's a major investors and there are a couple of start-ups. We're trying to just gain some capital before we go public. There's other gangs and lots of power places there always is, but yes, these two in particular and they had an infamous rivalry which I'll talk about. So the New South Wales Vagrancy Act in 1905 prohibited men from running brothels. But it didn't mention anything about women. That's just such an oversight. Loophole! But it's ridiculous.

You think that any law you would just write people, persons, citizens, that kind of thing. Well obviously, it won't, it will never run a business. Well that's the thing, it wouldn't even cross their mind. Like you just be saying no man. No man should do this. And that, like they think that applies to everyone. It's amazing. So they're like funny

the lore is like the lore is a real stickler. For words and it's just a petent right? So you go, well it says here no man can write a brothel, that's fine, I'm not a man. Yeah, I know, but you know what I mean? That's yeah. So I think that's quite funny. She was informously wealthy, or that was all earned from crime. She earned a much real estate in Sydney. She had luxury cars, gold and diamond jewelry. She traveled by ship in first class. Like she'd made a lot of money.

But much of her wealth was also used to pay bribes to police sector to the police sector and fines for her criminal convictions that spanned 50 years. Over that time she was convicted on 204 occasions. Whoa, that's a lot. It's a long criminal career though. And she served many jail sentences in New South Wales, jail mainly for prostitution, violent assault, a fray and attempted murder. What's afraid? It still always feels like one of those snake stake knives

deals, it gets thrown in with other things. Yeah, so is it assault and afraid? Is that something like, it feels like it's something like, it feels like to me like, it's sort of a rule. Fighting of one or more persons in a public place. Right. There you go. So yes, it's afraid.

So she's, yeah, and she was, so just trying to take on a lot of people that was she was quite violent I Feel it's amazing to me that someone can be convicted was a convicted 204 times Because it's like you keep seeing the same person like we're gonna have to up this How do you get go to jail that many times without eventually getting it? It more than you're going, look, we can't. This is your last chance.

Next time, we're gonna have to make it work. But I guess there's restrictions on how long sentences can be for the questions. Yeah, and I think a few might have, well, they must have been acquittal. And so as you can have spent that long in Jail, I don't know. I also love the, when she's in Jail, she's in Jail, and then she's out, she's in first class.

She's in a mansion. Yeah. She's back in Jail for in jail, and then she's out, she's in first class, she's in a mansion, back in jail for a bit, back to the mansion. Yeah, that'd be a real, like, jarring experience. A real adjustment for real. But when you're like a, like, hard as nails, super tough woman, she's probably like,

well, I'll run jail as well. Yeah. Oh yeah, she probably would have stayed. Yeah, it just gets her cells. Like, she probably runs it in there, and then all of a sudden, a cell is just souped up. Certainly, it's on a first-class ship. Yeah.

I don't know how she does it. She was known to the police and the public to be of a very violent nature and she was known to use firearms. At one time, she apparently soaked disobedient crooked police officers in petrol and set them on fire. Oh, fucking fuck. Who are what? Yeah, just set them on fire. She'd set police on fire. Oh, fucking fuck. Well, what? Yeah, just set them on fire.

She'd set police on fire and never went to jail for life. Yep. Because they were crooked cops. And this is your hero, Jess? I didn't say that were my heroes. I just think like, I think because it was a long time ago. Did Jess ever say anything like they were here? I think they're fucking ballsy women. But I don't think they're good people, but I think it's an interesting story. Anyway. No, do go on, you're right. Thank you so much, I will.

Her husband Jim was also notoriously violent. Although he was charged with murder on more than one occasion, he was always acquitted, successfully arguing self-defense. But I came at me. In 1931, Jim was charged at Central Police Court with the attempted murder of his wife after a heated argument at their home. As Tilly ran out of the house, Jim fired a number of shots at her in a similar way to the way he had murdered George Gaffney two years earlier in 1929, also out the front of Jim and Tilly's house.

But I think he got away with that one as well. But he missed this time. Well, he was arrested for the incident, but once again acquitted because Tilly refused to testify. So the name was called the cops. And so he was arrested, but then she wouldn't testify so they let him off. They separated in the early 40s and were divorced by 1944. Tilly met Eric Parsons, a returned serviceman originally from Melbourne.

In the infamous pub, tradesmen's hotel, it came up in a couple of dockos that I saw. It was like a pretty known sort of dodgy area and a lot of Tilly's brothels were in the area so she would often be at this pub. So she met Eric and they began a relationship in 1945, Tilly shot Eric in the leg at one of her other Sydney residences in Darlinghurst. She was arrested by police and charged with the shooting but was acquitted at trial in 1945 in 1945 until he and Eric married a few months later. Oh. We're happily married for 13 years right up until his death in 1958. Which she also calls.

Isn't that ridiculous? Like a couple months before they got married, she shot him in the leg. That is love that. Do you love it? I love it. Love is love. Love is love. Love is love. You know, if we can't, if we're not strong enough to get past this, wounding of your leg.

I said sorry. Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. Are we strong enough to get past this? I would be like, okay, I shot you in the leg. Sorry about that. Here, you can shoot me in the leg. Yes, I for an eye leg for a leg. But I would have like a BB gun.

It might bruise a little bit. Yeah. But I'm not an idiot like for like, but I would off like a BB gun. I might bruise a little bit. Yeah. I'm not an idiot. Quite badly, potentially. If you get to right in the right spot, I bruise easy too. So has he, have you thought about that, Eric? It's guaranteed to bruise. Eric, I could die from complications technically. I could get pneumonia ever went out in the cold with this sore leg.

So. So I'm running a risk for you babe. Babe. Or we can just agree that we both made mistakes and put the BB gun down. Can we not agree that you deserved to be shot in the leg because you were being a bit of a dick that night. Eric. Eric. Look at me please. Eric. Thank you. Thank you, Eric. Yeah, I imagine Tilly's the type to really use their words in an argument. While I've got you, I want to get married. Okay. Limp over here and we'll kiss and make up. Get down on my knee. I know that you just got shot in the leg, but it should be easier. Yeah, basically already down. I'm a traditionalist. I want romance. Thank you too much, Will.

God, duh. Anyway, I was just a... Anyway, I was still waiting for Eric. Eric? Hey. I'm sorry, are you talking to me? You also blew my eardrums. I can't hear anything. I can't hear a single thing.

Do you want to get married? Married? Yeah. All right. It's the wait, all right. It's on. So just to confirm, Eric, the shooting has 100% your fault and you don't blame me at all.

Married, yes? Yes, to everything you said. Yes. Excellent. Excellent. We got him. There's two of us for some reason. There's the fuck is way to these two personalities.

All right guys, we're gonna have this sweet summer one. Ha ha ha ha. Eric, you're a saucy dog. I wanna take that out of context. Yeah. I'll put that on the end of the episode. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha We have a pump. We have a pump. What do you have in front of me?

Why don't more infant formula companies use organic, grass-fed whole milk instead of skin? Why don't more infant formula companies use the latest breast milk science? Why don't more infant formula companies run their own clinical trials? Why don't more infant formula companies use more of the protein's found in breast milk science. Why don't more infant formula companies run their own clinical trials? Why don't more infant formula companies use more of the proteins found in breast milk? Why don't more infant formula companies have their own factories instead of outsourcing their manufacturing? We wondered the same thing. So we made By Heart, a better formula for formula. Learn more at By Heart.com. Are you working way too hard for way too little? There's never been a better time to consider Learn more at byheart.com. you could start your new career in months, not years, take classes online or on campus,

and financial aid is available to qualified students, including the GI Bill. Now is the time, mycomputercareer.edu. Okay, back to the rivalry between Kate. Ravary. The rivalry between Kate and Tilly. So I think I favor Tilly for some reason. Interesting.

Tilly, okay. She seems to have more of a bad ass. Correct. And also more successful. Correct. That's very true. All right, I'm on Kate Lee. All right.

Fine. Well, we'll see. So no one really knows exactly what started their feud. But what we do know is that it was deeply personal, often violent and always bitter. Kate. Always sexy. Kate trashed Lily's broth, Lily's brothels, Tilly smashed Kate's stores.

You know, it was a two-and-fro. Apparently, I did read one time. So there's this awesome website that I found when I was looking these two up called rejected princesses. And this guy who used to work on a lot of animated films, animates or puts together these stories of like Badass women basically. It's very cool and one of the stories on there was that a police officer on her first day It was a female police officer on her first day was like walking down the street and she came across tilly until he starts like harassing this cop and

And a tram goes past. Not a tram because it's Sydney, but a bus thing goes past. And Kate Lee jumps off this and like, king hits Tilly. What? And then just has it pinned down. Why are there cops just there? The cops just say, okay. That's real.

That sounds like an action movie. I think they did use some just say like, okay. That's real. That sounds like an action movie. Yeah, it was really good. I think they did use some trams, I think, in Sydney. Yeah, I think it was. I remember it being a tram, I'm pretty sure, but I could be wrong.

But yes, and keep in mind as well that Cates, like nearly 20 years older than Tilly. So it's quite funny that they've got this. Got this. They've got this. Anyway, it's very funny. So the two women, as I was saying, nearly 20 years apart, physically,

forward each other on multiple occasions. Because it's awesome. I was always the love when they rock I would just start trashing the other shop. Kate, Kate, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop it! Not my vase, not my vase, I fucking hell, Kate.

Yeah, I think it's from her. She's got a vase shop as well. Obviously. Not my vase shop. Oh, jeez. I mean, she's not all about the bad stuff. Yeah, you gotta have a front, in front of you. And she's got a business mind,

you may as well use that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, imported stuff. So while Tilly's reputation was one of violence and brutality, Kate was a little more jovial. So she was still quite a dangerous and violent woman, but my favorite story that I've read about Kate was that she would often just attend random court hearings and heckle the lawyers.

You should! Even better she would often sit in court peeling vegetables. So they're not even involved in a role? It doesn't even know anyone there. That's real fun. She'd take her veggies in and peel them for dinner that night while she heckled the lawyers. That's funny. That is great. The jury must be like,

I think there's some bit of fun. Yeah, a bit of Jesus lighting it up a bit, Jews. Order in my court. Are we getting someone who said that? Definitely, with a gattle. Yeah. Hang, hang, hang. Tell you why, there's nothing funny

than a well-timed public heckle. Like I was watching some, I wouldn't see some Tannis the other night. That's good. It's the famously easiest crowd to make last. The Tennis crowd. Go over the tip. I might hit it to his back end. I'm like, any other thing would just wouldn't be funny

but it was just really, really. Yeah, it's so funny because it's such a sterile environment that any sort of personality, like tennis player will get the ball boy out. That's the classic one. And they go, I'm struggling. Maybe you'd be better off playing. Yeah.

And I just wave them onto the call and they're crowded, be just bending over laughing. There's a mission. Laughing it out. So I don't want to play to that crowd. Your top five, the Australian Open. Oh my God, you just, you'd be carried out like a fucking king.

I swore too much on this episode. Calm down, Jess. And the punchline is tennis! Woo! Comedy. You announced the punchline. Here's my setup and my punchline is tennis. So by the 1930s, the police were taking extreme action. New laws passed that allowed them to arrest anyone they thought had bad character. That is ridiculous. They'd arrest anyone found to be carrying a razor and these measures actually were very effective in terms of reducing the problems

they were having with gang violence. They just stood out the front of the barber shop waiting. Oh no. I was thinking that we used to sell like the barbers would sell razors. That's how people got their raises often. But no, so now they didn't have to prove that you were like involved in illegal things. They just had to prove that you were speaking to somebody who's involved in illegal things. So you could say, get a barrier on the street, but barriers in a gang and now you're arrested. Sounds like a bloody nanny state. Bad character.

That sounds like, you know, a communist russian, like the bad part. Sounds like the kind of stuff that, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say this is the kind of things they try and like slowly try and do, right? They were trying to do that here. You just been at cops trying to check any bags I wanted to. People that people use fear to take away your liberties. So, Tilly went back to England for nine months, presumably to kind of avoid the police,

let things cool down a little bit. Kate was actually jailed for a year, charged with possession. Luckily, they were both quite savvy business women and their business has continued to run fairly smoothly while they were away. So it's had a bit of time to do attacks. Also behind bars.

Yeah, catch up on that paperwork. I find that fast though, when you hear about people still running their crime business from jail. Yeah, catch up on that paperwork. I find that fast now when you hear about people still running their crime business from jail. Yeah. It's amazing. It feels like you should just, everything should go. Like, your competitors should be sweeping in, but you've set up such a good system.

Everything must go. Yeah, I've got lipids. I've got lipids. Bombs, government secrets. Drugs, you name it, I've got it. This is Raymond Sugar Shack has taken a nasty turn. Everything must go well. Good day, Raymond Sugar Shack.

We've got all your sugar needs. Castor Sugar, proud sugar. I mean, it does make sense that Raymond Sugar Shack has just been a front for a crime business. Yeah, that makes a lot sense. No business could be that bad. So while Kate was in prison, she befriended an elderly inmate. They became quite friendly and she had quite an easy time during her imprisonment, you know, relatively. Within a week of release, she had robbed her elderly friend

and was also a, she also apparently shot a guy in the crotch. She got out and then robbed the woman. Yeah. So she befriended her, got her trust, then robbed her. In prison? Well, I don't know if the elderly woman had also got out of prison or was still in prison, but Kate obviously knew you like, you know, I don't know where you live. No, you pin number.

Kate, saying I know where you live and then laughing like that is. We live. It's real threatening. I'm going to do that next time you ask me for a lift home, but yeah, I know where you live. Oh, perfect, then. I know where you live, I've been inside those walls. No, I have though, you've invited me in. Yeah, you're like a vampire.

I have to invite you in or just like a plot person Yeah, vampires could a lot and come with polite people don't they? I think they just misunderstood. Yeah, because of the drinking blood thing Right, that's the that's the only thing that sets them apart. Otherwise, they're just lovely citizens Anyway, I really understood Anyway, it's misunderstood. So yeah, this sort of crying, so robbing her friend and shooting the guy in the crotch didn't play very well in the press. And the press had become very important at this time. So the police were at a point where they were kind of governed by public opinion.

So Kate and Tilly realized that you just had to seem like a bad person for the cops to be on you. So they started writing each other out to the newspapers. Ah, I'm ever tabloid war. Yeah, so they would just constantly be writing letters. They do basically what we would now call PR, is they would send out press releases of good things they were doing, and they would like, rat out each other and shoot all over each other to the press.

It's a bit of a social media war. Kind of, yeah, pre-social media. It was just a media war. Kind of, yeah, a pre-social media. It was just a media war, I think, is what we'd probably call it. But done socially. Yes. Just to convince. Correct. It was apparently an ongoing fuse

the paper actually reported on, which had something to do with Kate lending Tilly a dog, but Tilly never giving it back. And the newspaper's printed that. I'll let you a dog. You said you'd pay me back with two dogs by the end of the week and you never did. So now I'm gonna have to kneecap that dog and then come up to you.

Why did... When do you ever have to lend someone a dog? I know, I don't know why you'd lend someone a dog. I need a borrow a dog. Why the fuck do you need to borrow a dog? You're my enemy. Yeah, but you're the only one with a dog. Fine, I'll give you a dog.

So it's too bad. It's so weird, but the the press really ran with that one. That's low news, Damar. Naval transit restrictions associated with World War II led to devastating interruptions of these overseas cocaine supply. And she was also charged, so I mentioned before, Tilly was convicted 204 times, Kate was charged on 107 occasions and was sent to prison 13 times. That's a lot. When appearing in court, Kate would wear diamond rings on every finger of both hands.

She'd wear flamboyant and expensive clothes and her wealth was infamous. They were both like two of the most wealthy people in Sydney at the time. But you wear the diamond rings because of that thing if the glove fits, if the glove don't fit, you must have quit. And no glove would fit a hand, covered.

That's your smart. Yeah. Put that on. Real comfortable. I can't get these gloves on. I cannot get, take the rings off. No. No, those aren't rings. I think it's.

My fingers are diamond and crusted. I'm rich. Thank you. Both women tried to repair their public image later in life, donating to charities and doing some philanthropic work. Again, PR. Yeah, exactly, exactly right. Kate was a little more successful in improving her image.

She was more recognised for her good deeds than Tilly was. This was probably partly due to their natures, with Kate obviously being known as a bit more jovial until he was a mean person and her reputation reflected that. I'll do you, this one I picked. Yeah, pretty up and much worse. They did kind of bury the hatchet kind of, they were never friends, but they sort of, I guess, came to, I want to say respect each other, but not really, but they stopped all the violence and stuff like that against each other or everyone. Each other.

Okay, so they're still doing underworld stuff. Well, it starts to fall apart. So by the 50s, their gangs had fallen apart and their businesses had to. In the early 50s, Tilly had bragged to the media, I'm a lucky, lucky girl. I have more diamonds than the Queen of England's stoleways and better ones too. But by 1955, the taxation department ordered her to pay more than £20,000 in unpaid income tax and fines sending her close to bankruptcy. Kate had the same issue. The taxation department said her into bankruptcy in 1954 for unpaid income tax and fines dating back to 1942 for the

long time. Both of them had had so much wealth and such extravagance. Then the tax department just took it all away. That's what they do to you. That's what they bloody do for, I tell you, bloody accountants. That's like getting into the 50s, 1950s. It's sort of like when we started, it really seemed like an olden days world to me now. Yeah. Now into the 1950s, it's sort of, it's like when our parents were born. Yeah, there were people, like plenty of people alive now, who were born in the 50s. Definitely. So that's pretty wild. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Because I'm still picturing, you know,

like dirty streets and horse and cars. Yeah, when we started the report, that's what was happening. Yeah, it was a big change. Now bloody officers on the television. Yeah. Yeah. In another blow as well in 1955,

the New South Wales government changed the law to allow legal hotels to serve alcohol until 10 pm, an act that virtually killed off the Sydney Sligog trade and put purveyors like Lee, okay, and out of business, not necessarily out of the street, but out of business because people didn't need to go to these places anymore because you could drink until 10.

Yeah. Which is a reasonable time to stop drinking. It doesn't have to be 4am Matthew. That's awful. Alright. Tell that 10 on me. But the... Have a problem.

Sydney went, kept going out and out and they got to like normal sort of whenever you want to be open to. If you've got a license and now they've gone back to the lockout laws up there. Which has killed off its kings cross. Especially if you can't enter, once you leave, you can't go to a new venue after a certain time, right? It's like one of the things, yeah. Apart from the map.

Have you seen the map where that, so it's not all of Sydney, but this certain in an area, and it goes around like this and then it sort of cuts in and just misses where the casino is. Yeah, how convenient. It's like so blatant. And if you zoom out like the lockout laws, they've actually spelled on the map, the casino rules.

Yeah. Right. I'm drawn up. And the casino's like, oh, we had nothing to do with that. Just to, I guess I mean, that was kind of in our favor if I tell the government wants to do with that. Just to consider. Can't we? I guess that means that works kind of in our favor if that's how the government wants to do it.

I do it. That's fine by us. I guess. I see no. Guys, we have to keep serving alcohol all night to drunk people who have no concept of time because we keep it really dark in here. Okay, yeah, we're all fine with that.

Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. Here's a briefcase I owed you. Don't look at it I'm just inferring what they're bribing. I don't know who knows anyway allegedly So yeah, the tax department bloody sucked all their fun Yeah, and both women actually lived in basically poverty for the remainder of their lives. Oh really? Yeah Is it really? The mighty have full No, that's a good one. It's got a bummer of an ending. Well, okay. Yeah, that's probably I mean they've killed people and stuff

It's funny to feel yeah, I've left out parts as well because there wasn't a lot of them I guess that the hard thing is because this is quite a long time ago Obviously, we have lots of information about things even older than that but like Katelyn Tilly didn't exactly leave comprehensive journals behind I like the princess being in Being in two whole diaries princess diaries one and obviously princess Darius two like coronation That was cool. No, but no, but like being part of gangs nobody would talk nobody would squeal

So there's not heaps information, but yeah, there were definitely times when like Kate murdered people and you know They weren't good people Kate lived in a small room above one of her older legal hotels in Surrey Hills and was financially dependent on her nephew William, who ran a mixed business in the shop downstairs. Oh, sounds like that. She suffered a severe stroke in 1964 and was rushed to hospital where she died a few days later.

She didn't even get to see the Saints when they were in the Premiership 2 years later. Oh, her one dream in life! Every, every year you've said in my head I'm like, Oh Fitzroy's last Prem worship, 44. That's interesting. 54, the Bulldogs. They were our first Prem worship that year. Even though at least I've been saying them out loud. Thank you for not saying them out loud, but why'd you bring it up now?

I still don't want to know. A very good question. I was just sort of letting you in a moment mind a little bit there. So yeah, Kate was 83 when she passed away. So she lived quite a long time. Her funeral was held on the 7th of February, in Surrey Hills, at St Peter's Catholic Church, and was attended by over 700 mourners, including Tilly Divine. Oh, that's nice. But lots of like even police and Wow. You know what?

That means that's really positive, because that means that Tilly may get to live and to see the science premiership. Maybe. Kate was remembered by the press. I think it was cross-mat. Kate was remembered by the press as much for her patriotism during World War II

and for generous charitable acts in support of the unemployed in harsh times as she was for her criminal history. So people sort of she did good PR. Yeah, she did better at like improving her public image and she did do some good stuff. It doesn't necessarily, it doesn't take away from the bad things you've done, but she did some good stuff. Tilly on the other hand suffered from chronic bronchitis for about 20 years and died of cancer at age 70 in 1970 Keep in mind she was 20 years younger

So she made the promise. It's a brutal final couple of decades Imagine having I imagine having chronic bronchitis would not be good for 20 years No, and then and then she had cancer that was killed her Her funeral service was poorly attended, and her death went virtually unnoticed by Sydney's media and population. And it was said that very few people openly mourned her death. The only public eulogy offered to divine was given by

the then police commissioner, Norman Allen, who said she was a villain, but who might have judged her? The police commissioner, you are exactly. Only the judge would be in a better I to judge her? The police commissioner, you are exactly only the judge would be in a better position to judge her. Yeah. And that's the the whole press conference. No, she's just like, whatever. Well, that's it. Yeah. And there was a story as well that like at a pub later, somebody went to sort of make a toast and nobody could really be bothered even lifting their glasses. Like nobody really cared that she died. Not good to get you.

It sounds like, yeah, from what you're saying, Kate did a lot of good things, it was very nice. So people cared, she would have been seen as a character, whereas. Yeah, I don't think she was ever seen as nice. I think she was still very intimidating and powerful and violent. But she was a bit more jovial. I think it was sort of like she's a bit of a character. Yeah.

She was still fucking kooky. They both were. But I think she sort of improved her, what am I looking for? Reputation. A bit better than Tillie did. And Tillie was, she was nasty. So I think, yeah, people were like, ding dong, the witch is dead. Which is awful, but yeah, they didn't have, they had...

But that's like ding dong, the witch is dead and they have a party, and that's sort of stuff. But this sounds like, there's like, man, whatever. Which witch? Yeah. Which old witch, generally, don't know which one. Yeah, I don't know who that is. No, it's only one.

So yeah, so that is my report on Kate Lee and Tilly Devine. Kate Lee. Tilly Devine. Katelyn. Tilly Devine still has the best name of the two. Definitely, but do you want to change your answer from favoring Tilly or are you happy with? I'm having it back the undog. Okay. One that everyone didn't care about.

Yeah. That's nice. It is a bit tragic. Yeah, it is. But also, I'm sure they did some horrible stuff. Oh yeah, they did some terrible things. Like which ones bit tragic. Yeah, it is. But also, I'm sure they did some horrible stuff. Oh yeah, they did some terrible things. Like which ones set people on fire?

Tilly. Maybe I will change my answer then. That's what throws you over the edge. That's interesting. Not the one thing that didn't, they weren't, she wasn't remembered. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sure there's a lot more to it, but as I said, it's kind of hard to find much more information because nobody really wanted to talk. And who was this topic suggested by? Oh yeah, thank you. It was suggested a couple of times by Josie Penning and Tessa Strickland, both suggested this one.

I meant to mention you guys at this top. Thanks so much for the suggestion. I thought it was really cool. Thanks so much. That's great. I'm doing an Aussie topic We don't do heaps of them and I'll see topic and also kind of answered a couple of like Aussie women too Yeah, so that was cool That's why I was I was really glad that I got chosen in the patreon because I wanted to learn more about it

And you got a couple of bad asses up you slave you don't reveal who the other ones are No, I won't reveal because I and they might they'll come back around Very cool. I'll work there and I will never know You're slave, you don't want to reveal who the other ones are. No, I won't reveal because they'll come back around. Very cool. I'll work there with my heart. I know. We'll never know. Until the next time.

Yeah, the next bad ass. So, but I think it's very different going about. All the other bad asses we've done at World War II bad asses. Well, that's it. And there was another World War II one in the mix. And I thought, and I think it was a pilot. I was like, people are going to choose this guy. Yeah. People are definitely, and then a couple of like, there was a bush ranger in there, not a bush ranger. So I was like, these two unknown women aren't going to get chosen. And then they did.

That is great. You Patreon people made the right choice. And if you want to be the people that make those choices, you can always hit up patreon.com such do go on pod. And if you love the show, you can pledge back and keep it going, which is really really nice. And you get to do stuff like vote for Jess's topic, you can vote for Matt's topic, you get a bonus episode once a month. And also we give shout outs to some of you every week.

We do, we do indeed. And we'd like to thank some people now. What are we gonna do for these people this week? Oh well I mean everybody had an unrelated nickname. So should we give them unrelated nicknames to their names? Oh I like that. I mean that's really good. Okay. Do I'm going to kick it off? Yeah, go on. All right well I would like to thank if I may. Please. From Buckeye Arizona. Oh, yes, that's good. She's a real cool State name I'd say I'd love to think Lee right Lee right. I kind of like just and it is related, but maybe Bucky

Bucky's good. Yeah, yeah, fromucky rise. Yeah, from the Bucky. But it's interesting. Bucky's the, that's the Ohio State University mascot. Oh. For sure. The Ohio Bucky rise, I'm pretty sure. Liy Bucky rise. Liy Bucky rise, that's real nice.

And I've also, I've been given a book as a present. And it's got, in one part of it, it's got all of the American states and what their nicknames are. And so I can tell you those as well for interest. The Grand Canyon state is Arizona. Oh, cool. What makes sense having the Grand Canyon?

When you say nickname, direct and that's what would be on their number plates. Yeah, I think a lot of them is that kind of thing. Like Victoria's the Garden state or the place to be. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We've gone through a few ordinary ones. Do you see Queensland's the garden state or the place to be. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We've gone through a few ordinary ones. Do you see Queensland's the education state? Yeah.

Okay, Queensland. Do they have that? They're all nearly always, they're like, are you? Are you? Are we the place to be? The place to be. Come on, Victoria. You're beautiful.

You've got shitty weather. And for a while, it was on the move. On the move, yeah. What is that mean? You're talking about Victoria on the moon. What does the garden say, man? We have lots of do we have more Melbourne Melbourne does have a lot of gardens. I think we do, but but I mean that's not the second smallest state. So like we've got less mass to cover with.

But it's also the I'm pretty sure the got some of those like the garden state is stolen from an American place. I'm pretty sure maybe. Oh of those, like the garden state is stolen from an American place. I'm pretty sure. Maybe, oh, you're gonna check now. Why I can potentially quickly have a look. Yes, New Jersey is the garden state. So, like a lot of things, just rigid of some of us.

Yes. Is that said New Jersey? Maybe it is. I haven't seen it. That would make sense. I'm saying it, yeah, I've seen it while back. And I'd also love to think from sent Louis In mo which mo let me look up what mo man. I'm a

This doesn't have the fucking initials goddamn Montana No, I think that's we work at that Montana MZT Which is and MN is doesn't make any sense Okay, Google what does mo stand for in United States States? I'm for Erick and I can look it up faster. I'll look up. It's Missouri. Missouri. I was right.

The In tribe meaning town of the large canoes is a US state in the United States with Jefferson City as its capital. The state's nickname is the show me state. The US Post Office of the US, the Missouri is my... Yeah, the show me state. Show me? Show me. I don't understand.

Show. Show me state. Okay. With a hyphen. Oh, that's fun. Okay, cool. Okay, and who are we thanking from the... That was my most successful, okay, Google that I've done

over the last couple days by a long way. That was fun. Probably the first one that has given me the answer that I've asked for. Did you actually say the person's name or did we get distracted by that? Who's Luke in the show me, Steve? Show me the Patreon name.

So from St. Louis, Missouri, Cody Jenkins. Oh, that's another good one. Lee Wright and Cody Jenkins, thanks so much, you guys. Legend, so what is, so we got Lee Bucky Wright Oh, that's another good one. All right. Lee right and Cody Jenkins. Thanks so much, you guys. Legend, so what is, so we got Lee Bucky right and Cody, what do you reckon? Show me Jenkins. Satchmo from a Louis, he's from Satchmo. Louis Armstrong.

Louis Armstrong. It's a bit of a stretch. Yeah, that's right. Cody Satchmo. Hornie. You know, go go to trumpet the horn we're going to Cody horn Hornback Jenkins Cody mustache Jenkins who lives in MMO

Mo He's all good. Cody says like Jenkins. Yeah, that's a good Caesar Okay, see see like Caesar a little Caesar That's a pizza chain in America little little pizza. That's a pizza. That's cool, yeah. Let's call him Cody Peats, Cody Margarita Jenkins. That's my favorite pizza.

That's the longest, longest chain ever, I love it. But it works. It's a fun chase. I like to thank a couple as well, then if I may. That would be so good. My first one is from Ireland. My favourite place in the world. From Kulani.

It's Barry Fleming. Oh, Barry Fleming. Barry Fleming's pretty good, I like that. It's a rock solid name. Bond. Bond, yeah. Barry Bond Fleming. Oh, good one, yeah, I like it.

Barry Bond's. Is there any, like, a baseball? I see the one that... Nothing of James Bond from Ian Fleming. Yeah, no, I got that but then I thought on a second level that you got Barry Bond's. Barry? Right, Barry. Barry Gary Fleming. Kalani, where's Kalani again? Because my mum's side of the family is from...

My mom's side of the family is from away from What's it called? Colonies Southwest Southwest right County Kerry County Kerry. Yeah, is that ringing anybody? County Kerry is I think that's I think that's really close to where my ancestors are from okay But no why? You felt the need to tell us that then. Sorry.

I'm kidding. Um. So we have a bond? Yeah, Barry Bond Fleming, I like that. Bondy. Good one. And then I would also like to thank, um, from Swani in Georgia. I hope I said that right.

I'm sorry. Scott Young. Scott Young. Georgia, the peach I said that right, I'm sorry. Scott Young. Scott Young. Georgia, the peach state. Peach. Peachy. Scott, peach, young. What about James?

James the giant peach. Princess? What about Princess Peach? Princess Peach, I hope Princess Peach. Scott, Princess Young. What about Peach, toad? Toad, toad. Toad, I like toad.

Scott toad, young. Toad is from toad hall in Yes, yes, the will of the toad love it. Okay, toad it is Toadie enjoy Toadie fish toady from neighbors. Yeah, if you have any idea what neighbors is if you not look up neighbors toad fish You get a great result there all right I would like to thank all the way from Guadalupe in Phoenix, Arizona. Will that be Guadalupe? Because I've heard the word Guadalupe before.

Me too. I'm sure that Guadalupe, they probably say that in Mexico, because there's Guadalupe in Mexico, but... Phoenix, Arizona, oh yeah, that's where I've heard it was from Dave. He's a reporter at Frida Kahlo. Yeah, that was it. Anyway. It's sorry Dave. He's a report about free to Carlo. Yeah. That's not it. Anyway, sorry Dave. The famous church in Mexico. See the ground. Canyon says that's a second Arizona. And did he's James Duquette? Ash. Duquette is great. James Duquette. Ash Phoenix rises from the ashes. Yeah, ashes. Good. Ash.

Well, catch him Pokemon. Catch up. Yeah, ashes. Good. Ash or catch him Pokemon ketchup. Ash ketchup. Got a ketchup. All I mean, I don't know where at any point we said we had to make a weird fucking move. It's fun. I like it. James ketchup to kids. Alice Cooper also we used to do a radio show from his house in Arizona. I mean, it's like a radio show he goes out on one, I think. Classic Alice Cooper. Classic Alice. Alice Wonderland. Wonder. James Wonder duke. James Wonder Boy duke. Wonder boys good. Yeah, I'm happy with Wonder Boy. That's great.

Thank you, James. And also, I'd like to thank from a Tula Vista in California, California. How's the golden state? Oh, the warrior himself, Steve Dumbo. Dumbo, duh. Dumbo, duh. Um, duh, duh, way. Nob, nob, nob, nob, nob. Nobby, doby.

Doby. Doby. We got back to high for the sleep. Doby Dumbo. On your Steve, thanks so much for supporting the show all the way in California Chula vista love that I want to what you all right, okay, Google. What does Chula mean? That's not gonna understand you silly accent Okay, Google what does Chula mean?

Hot. Hot. Hot. Hot. Hot. Hot. Hot. That's great. So it's hot vista, hot view.

Hot view. I love it. Hot view. I love it. Hot view. That's a great. That's a great chula vista. I just want to be there.

Chula vista. Me like you. I love it. Awesome. So there you go. Thank you so much everybody for supporting the show. Thanks all your legends. You it. Awesome. So, there you go. Thank you so much everybody for supporting the show. Thanks, all your legends, you're the best. You're absolutely the best. I'm just Googling chula, really as hard chula is not wrong. Oh, guys, if it was a man voice, he wouldn't

go. Well, I did use Google to check Google. That's really work. And silly. But if you want to be on our Patreon list of naughty and nice, everyone on there is nice somehow. You can't small the show at patreon.com such do-go-on-pod really does help us out. And we really appreciate that. So thanks to everyone that does that. And if you want to get in contact at any time,

we've got our emails always open do-go-on-pod.gmail.com. And all the social medias is that dogoonpod for all of them and there's links to all that. Thanks for listening. We love you. We do love you. Never forget that, we love you all. Never forget, never forget, I love you.

I'm so fucking so I love you. And we'll be back next week with another episode and until then, we'll say thank you and I will say goodbye. Later. Bye. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit Planet Broadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates.

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