Two In The Think Tank - 136 - Che Guevara

Episode Date: May 30, 2018

He's one of the most iconic people of the twentieth century, but also one of the most divisive. A doctor, solider, leader, writer and revolutionary. Was Ernesto 'Che' Guevara a freedom fighter, or a callous murderer? Dave reports on his amazing life, and we try to find out.Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPodCheck out our brand new website! (including MERCH!) : dogoonpod.comSubmit a topic idea directly to the hat: https://dogoonpod.com/submit-a-topic/Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] AND FURTHER READINGhttp://totallyhistory.com/che-guevara/https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1014_041014_motorcycle_diaries_2.htmlhttps://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/08/che-guevaras-brother-ernesto-must-be-pulled-from-his-pedestalhttps://www.britannica.com/biography/Che-Guevarahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#International_diplomacyhttps://www.biography.com/people/che-guevara-9322774https://www.history.com/topics/che-guevara

Hey everybody, Jess and Dave, just jumping in really quickly at the top here to make sure that you are across all the details for our upcoming Christmas show. That's right, we are doing a live show in Melbourne Saturday December the 2nd, 2023, our final podcast of the year, our Christmas special. It's downstairs at Morris House, which usually be called the European beer cafe. On Saturday December the 2nd, 2023 at 4.30pm, come along, come one, come all, and get tickets at dogoonpod.com. This episode is brought to you by Progressive. Most of you aren't just listening right now.

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You could start your new career in months, not years. Take classes online or on campus Visit PlanetBroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hello, I'm Matt Stewart. Hi, Matt. I'm Matt Stewart. Oh, no! No! What's happening? There's two Matt Stewart sitcoms. Hang on. I'm also Matt Stewart.

There is three Matt Stewart's sitcoms. What are we in paradise? Oh my God. Three Matts. Oh my God. I mean, three out of three. If we walk out that door, maybe everyone out there is Matt Stewart's as well.

I couldn't handle that at all. They'd be too good. Yeah. Maybe there is such a thing as too much of a good Matt Stewart. Hello to all our Matt Stewart listeners out there. Yeah, hello. I'd like to be back in the studio for another week, guys. You're good. Real good. I'm fine. Okay. I don't want to talk about it. All right. Well, I was going to ask,

so glad you liked that. Yeah, great. Thank you for obeying my wishes. All right, Matt, you good? I'm good. I cannot wait for this week's question to get us on topic So you don't want to talk about it either, okay? No, I want to talk about it. I am only since I'm the question I do want to talk about it. I'm good. Okay, you would like to get straight into the topic. Oh, yeah big time. It's a juicy one Okay, Apple Not that kind of juicy. Oh chicken. Oh, is that juicy? I don't know juice Okay, it's not that kind of juicy. Oh, chicken. Oh. Is that juicy? I don't know. Juice, okay, it's not that kind of juice, so it's the type. It's the brand where people used to have juicy written across their back sides and their tracks are pants.

Oh. I still think in parts of the world they have that. Fuck it. Wow. Fashion capital of the world, Milan. Do they have, is that what we're talking about? Okay, we're talking about Milan. Woohoo, I got it in one.

Do you want a question? Dave, what? I will narrow the parameters slightly do you want a question? And we'll see. Dave, what? I don't know. I'll narrow the parameters slightly. I just want to pull you up on something. It's actually called Malano. I'm so sorry.

Culture team, right here. Yeah, you are the culture vouchers and I am, well, just to Philistine. And I'm not fine. We call you yak boy. Yeah. Okay, yes. Been, been belong. Been died. The one who belongs in the bin. Been boy. I'm okay, yes. Been, been belonger.

The one who belongs in the bin. Bind boy. I'm changing his nickname in our group chat right now. So the one that belongs in the bin? Or bin boy, bin belonger. I like the boy that belongs in the bin. Okay. And I've got to hear you chiny-chiny.

All right, I am. That's the question. Okay, my question is, for both of you, which a revolutionary and cultural icon was one of times most important people of the 20th century. Share. Oh, that's good.

All right. Do you believe in love at love? I didn't before that song, but now I did. Yeah. I'm trying to think of anyone at all. What about John Paul Cautier? John? Claude Van Dam.

Give me a John Paul, go to your... Go to your... Gautier. Yeah. I went to the NGV one time and there was some sort of a thing on, that's about, I was trying to be cultured. They had a lot of his clothes there. He was a guy with a lot of clothes. What's his name?

John Claude Van Dam. John Claude Van Tdam. Van Tdam, yes. The muscles from Brussels. Yes. John Claude Van Tdam, that's... Do you, guys, legit? Wait, can you say again, I was, I don't know if I was really paying attention

as much as I could have been. Let me repeat. Which revolutionary and cultural icon was one of times 100 most important people of the 20th century. Revolutionary and cultural icon. Shae Guaveira. It is Shae Guaveira.

Shae Guaveira. The only revolutionary I know. There you go. He was actually listed under, so Gavara. The only revolutionary I know. There you go. He was actually listed under, so basically time voted for the 20th century, so 100 most influential people of the 20th century. And he was, and they broke him into categories. He was listed under heroes and icons.

They broke him into categories. Yeah, no balls. He was straight to balls. He's on category, she bowls. she bowls, son, she balls. Instead of a she launch, she launch. But now a she ball. No, he was assigned to heroes and icons, but not leaders and revolutionaries. I know absolutely nothing about this person.

I've got a book. Is that bad? I've got the book. Shea, and it sits on my shelf very dusty. Great, so it's with the dust as all the dust of being red. Did you buy the book or did someone buy it for you? Why not? At a trivia night, which was a fundraiser for someone who worked at the hospital.

Yep. Were you the individual winner or did your team get that and they said Matt's going to raise this. I can't remember, but probably the hell is a proud moment. The reason I asked is because I went over to a friend's house last night and on her bookcase, I had given her a little book for Christmas. It's just like a little photography book of dogs and she had that on her bookcase, but like out in front of all the other books like it was on display.

And I couldn't help but feel that had been pulled out because I was coming over, you know? Oh, and it was the one you'd given out. Yeah, the book I gave her was on display, like in front of all the other books. So all the other books are like, you know, stacked up in a line and this one's out on display in front of them. Your mind is such a sad place.

Maybe you just bought a very nice gift and it was appreciated. Absolutely not just. She has tried to pull one over you. Or, or she cares so much about you that she wanted you to know that she appreciated the gift. No. Either way. Friendship terminate. Beautiful.

Little example. Well let me let me ask you a question Matt. If the trivia host from that trivia night you won was to come to your house. Would you dust off that show book and put it on display? I think you would. I'd say excuse me who are you? Why are you my house? Familiar, I can't quite place you. I remember that night at the same sloths to the cats. That was what I was mainly doing was looking at my phone going. And you still managed to win a book? Yeah, look, I'm very good at trivia. You shouldn't have been looking at your phone during trivia. Yeah. But I use some kind of fucking... I only in the breaks. trivia. Yeah. I use some kind of fucking phone.

I only in the breaks. Sure, mate. I'd know how to trivia. Anyway, to trivia to live. Speaking of trivia, let's learn some now. This is our second report in a row on a person from the 100 most influential people. Marilyn Monroe is also on the list.

There you go. Who's the address top pick? Was she higher up? Well, she was not listed as a leader or revolutionary, but why not? Why not? Yeah, they're just like Jay. Hmm.

So was she higher up? You sort of answered the question with something that wasn't an answer. There was no rankings. Except actually, no, there was. Elwood Einstein was number one. I see was a little personal answer. He is a slippery character, Dave.

He is a Dave. Cannot get a hold of him. Slippin' right through him, a thing is. Oh, really had him. It's like a little grape. This binboy is covered in bin juice. All right. Oh, that is juicy.

This topic was suggested, I told you, too, so we've come back to it. Suggested by Patrick Zuner from Adelaide. Patrick Zuner loves to learn, as we always say. And also just suggested by Michael Gletson. Michael Gletson, good on you, petty medicine. Go to bed, so I'm petty medicine. Oh, what Dave said made some sense in a way but mine was more esoteric. Esoteric? No further questions. Chey! Was born under the name Ernesto Guevara. Yes.

Rosario Argentina on June 14, 1928. So not long after this episode's released, we are celebrating, it would be celebrating his 90th birthday. Cool. And he was the oldest of five children of an upper middle class family. Five is an okay number of children. So that's just under the question. One more.

And we asked the question. Come on. You can't remember all their names of that stage, surely. I can remember five names. Easy. That's the first. What else? Easy, squeezy, lemon, PC.

Still got one more. Banana. The odd one out. Banana Perkins. Which of you the doc of the 12 dwarfs? I don't recognize you so I'm gonna I'm gonna assume you're banana you must be banana Yes, mom. That's right. I'm bananas. That's the party kid Banana is a party dude So Chey or Ernesto's mother Celia came from a very well-off family from Buenos Aires. She was a very intelligent, she was very intelligent, more intelligent than that sentence, sliss me to sell you.

She was very intelligent and as an early feminist, she was one of the first women in Argentina to wear trousers, smoke and driver car. Oh fuck yeah, Seale is great. What about us? Chase Far. I've done two of those things, so I don't know what the big deal is. You've done the big two.

He's never worn trousers, is that what you say? But you have smoked whilst driving a car. Sure have. And being the first woman to do so in Argentina. Or whatever country you mentioned. She was only one of the first. You were the first yes Ernesto, Jr's father was also called Ernesto

He too had links to a very wealthy family including being the grandson of one of South America's richest men However, somewhere along the way the family had lost most of their fortune Ernesto, Sr. was six years older than Celia. They fell in love and quickly married and six months later Little Ernesto, Jr. was born. Oh, so he was premature, obviously. Yes, three months premature exactly. Yeah, wow. Dating back from the wedding night.

Oh, of course. They lived a little chuckle to yourself there. Hey, someone's going to enjoy my company. I love me. I love you. I always say. I'm going to change my nickname to lonely. I always say. I'm going to change my nickname to Lonely Girl.

Been boy lonely girl and the beard he won. You guys are really going to get to know me. He still don't know anything about that. I don't know what was beard and glasses I guess. No, as much about you as someone who's just met you. Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh God. Ah, Matt, you know him. He's always got that beard on his face.

Classic Matt. Well, maybe Matt, maybe you need to let us in. Yeah. Let Finn boy in. Let lonely girl, Nia. Ha ha ha ha. No, don't, because then you'll lose what makes her special. Yeah, that's my thing.

Ha ha ha. No, don't, because then you'll lose what makes her special. Yeah, that's my thing. Well, the Gavarras lived a Bohemian life, and Cheh was raised with leftist leanings. His father often hosted veterans from the Republic side of the Spanish Civil War in their home, and Cheh developed an affinity for the poor. He was very well read and was interested in poetry from a young age. Cheh's childhood, however, was marred by chronic asthma, that at times the so bad his family thought he might die from it. The family even moved to the mountain town of Altagracia, hoping that the mountain air would help the young man's asthma.

The plan worked and he was able to regain his health and was an active student and enjoyed playing rugby and swimming. Oh, wow, that's cool. Do you mean mountain air? There was a mountain air who helped him with his breathing? Yeah, a lot of mouth to mouth But it works. It works. You can't argue with the results. You can't. I won't. And that mountaineer's name was Mr. Ventolin Hello

No, in fact about Mr. Ventin is something he went on to invent Penicillin. Oh, he and beckotied He invented and Penicillin he invented. Yeah, see that credible. You are good. That's why I thought that was a I thought that was a genuine fuck up Oh, no, I saw that bad pun. I saw that glint in your eye. I was like fuck he's good. Isn't he? That's actually where the word in Ventilin comes from your eye and I was like, fuck he is good, isn't he? That's actually where the word in Ventiline comes from. I have sang it just then.

I just coined it. I'm a coina. I'm a coina. I'm a coina. And his late teens, Chey went to look after his grandmother in Bonissaris. After her death, he enrolled in medical school at the University of Bonissaris.

Having been inspired to want to help others after his own struggles with asthma. So he wants to be a doctor. A noble effort. To want to be something good. I'd love to be something good. I'd love to want to be something good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be good, wouldn't it? So Chey wants to be a doctor, but he also wants to travel and explore the world. So, Tuise took breaks from medical schools to do so. His first trip was in 1950 when he traveled solo through a rural Argentina on a bicycle that had a small engine attached.

Oh, he decided to cheating. Yeah, is that a motorbike? It's like a shit motorbike. I probably could have just said shit motorbike. Yeah, we would have known exactly what you meant. Yeah, you would have known. We saw a guy, just like a 75 year old man on a segway today. My dad, who's just had a hip replacement

and he's on crutches, was just staring at this guy in awe. He was so excited. And tells me, he's like, look at that, look at that. Look at that, Annie, Annie, look at that. That does sound great. I think I reckon, and I can't fully explain why, but I remember 10 years ago or something, I was in a car at a traffic lights,

and across the, you know, crossing across it, was like a hardcore Jewish dude with the full get up. And it would have been about 65 on a razor scooter. And it was just like, I just felt so happy. And I don't know how to explain that. Yeah, it's a great feeling, isn't it? Yeah. It's like unlikely animal friendship.

It's that same thing. Right. Right. I'm expected. Yeah. But it's so glorious. Yeah. Totally.

And he looked, he, there was joy, you know, when, like I think joy is contagious. He was clearly a happy man. Yeah, because he was, you know, when, like, I think joy is contagious. He was clearly a happy man. Yeah, because he was on a razor scooter. The wind was like, his hair was flowing back on the cat. Yeah, the curls, yeah. Oh, I'm amazing. And his beard and... Getting a great image, because he's smiling at mama.

Yeah, I think it's him. He had a big grin on. Yeah. Oh, he's... Flowing sort of garb. Also, could I please use the company credit card to buy three razor scooters? Approved. Yes.

Two out of three, sorry Matt. As if you were going to say no. No, look. I'll get you your favorite comments. I'm very fiscally responsible. Mainly because I like that phrase. I just want to have some fun. Dead. I'm only joking. Mainly because I like that phrase. I'm just trying to have some fun, dead.

Well, maybe if you behave, we can have some fun. When have I not behaved? Name a time. Name a time I haven't behaved. Yeah, you can't name one. Because that always behave. Yeah. That time you threw skittles at the crowd.

They loved it. Next. I was sharing. You always taught me to share. I'm violently. I'm violently sh- I'm enthusiastically. I was sharing. You always told me to share. I'm violently. I'm violently sh- I'm enthusiastically. I would argue.

I had to apologise. I apologise and feel like an incident report for the venue. Yeah. Yeah, we all got skittles. Yeah. It was a good day. Skittles. Anyway, Chey decided the best way to get to know and to understand a country was by visiting

hospitals and meeting the patients that they housed. It wasn't interested in tourist sites, but he wanted to see the plight of the people The next year he took another break from his studies in 1951 Then age 23 and he went on a nine-month journey that would really shape his view of the world Chinese friend Alberto Granado who was studying biochemistry embarked on a motorcycle journey of South America That's a brilliant name the motorcycle they were traveling on was called... South America. It is good, isn't it?

The waterfall isn't it. Hmm. Ah, this time it isn't a motorbike. Not a shit. Oh, thank you, yes. Well, I say that it was called La Podorosa, the powerful. Oh, that sounds good. It was anything but and gave him a lot of trouble early on

and eventually broke down completely. So the two of them on one motorbike? Yeah, and now they have no motorbike. I do. Sounds like a fun movie. BuddyCop movie without the cop. But at first I don't get along. Yeah.

Right? Because one of them has to get one from one side of South America to the other. Yeah. But he doesn't want to go. He doesn't want to go. And but then they have to be on one motorbike. Little brother. Yeah. And they don't get by 9am on May 1st.

They're both going to juvenile hall. Yeah. And then about halfway through, they start to respect one another. Yeah. They say that each other's traits are actually quite good. Yeah. Maybe they have a little more in common than they thought. The straight man, played by Steve Martin in this case, and the wild man, played by Che Guevara, Sush John Candy. You're thinking plain strands of the reveal. Well, they needed to use other means of transport. That is correct, Matt, because they lost their bike. They manually hitchhiked. They continued on their journey without a bike.

At one point, they introduced themselves as internationally renowned leprosy experts at a local newspaper, which wrote a glowing story about them. The travelers used the press clipping as a way to score meals and other favors with locals along the way. Sneaky.

So you have a look at this little clipping I've got. Before you say no to give me free food. I tend to show people my show reel before any kind of interaction. To be honest, job interviews, restaurants. I mean, a job interview is not that inappropriate. Good point. Restaurants, I'd argue. What's the job? Meeting the parents. Show them a show reel. Yeah, no, the job is as an administrator. He's a highlight reel of me meeting my former partner's parents. That's Diane. She was sassy. We shall catch up for brunch. Wait, I'm about to say something really funny.

Against me every time. I did not get along with Jeremy. That's Mark, he's the one who got away. I'm stuck with yours. That's how it goes. John Candy and Steve Martin also got in trouble. It's trying to make it relatable for Matt here. Nice. While stopping in the town of Laotaro to repair the motorcycle after an accident, they were

invited to a dance. Ooh, that doesn't sound like trouble at all. The evening ended badly. Oh, dear. They couldn't do the shuffle. Couldn't do the dance. After. They could do the Cincinnati sit and squeal. They could not.

And also Guevara tried to seduce a married woman. The two men were chased out of town by an angry mob. Wow. That feels like that never really happens in real life. Yeah. I'm just giving them on time. Chase learning and growing. It feels like a story that they would have laughed about later. Yes. Not funny at the time. No, certainly not, but I was not Steve Martin would not have been happy. But later, all boy would they laugh about that one. Hands around each other clutching their stomachs laughing so hard. You know? I know.

Like we used to do. A few months ago. A few months ago. A few months ago. Slow motion montage about the three months laughing. Yep, that's a good shot. That's going in. That's a coffee. Yep, that's good shop. That's going in.

That's Diane. All in all, the pear traveled over 8,000 kilometers through many South American countries. But it wasn't all just fun montage. Shea was shocked by the poverty that he encountered. He was appalled at the conditions of miners working in a Chilean mine and meeting a homeless communist couple left an impression on him where they didn't even have a blanket to share between them. In Peru, the two men went to see Hugo Pese, a leading leprosy researcher and a Marxist

who engaged Che with political discussions that he later acknowledged as formative on his outlook. The traveling pair spent a few weeks volunteering at a leper colony on the Amazon and on his 24th birthday with the doctors and nurses as his audience Givara gave his first political speech advocating for a unified Latin America. Any of you remember what you were doing in your 24th birthday? I was at the Belgian beer garden in on St. Claude Road. I don't think it's there anymore.

No, it's not. It was great. Cut my foot, was round songs, cut my foot, bled a lot. Okay, so not making political speeches as well as getting out there. Well, no, I use that as an analogy. My foot is like the working people.

And I'm sick and tired of this shot of glass, I. The man. The business. Cutting into our livelihoods people and one second tired of this shot of glass IE the man business cutting into our livelihoods back to my foot again my foot's first of all are you lecturing the ambulance people that I've lost a lot of blood and drunk many leaders of beer yeah my blood was very thin really, there's a photo somewhere, and it's a lot of blood. I've lost three letters of blood, but I've gained five letters of beer. So I should be fine, right, Officer?

Chain Documentities, thoughts and experiences with a daily diary that would later be published in 1995 as a book called The Motorcycle Diaries. So many successful and influential people have kept diaries? I did for a period of two years and I wish I'd kept it up. Yeah. Because now you can go back and you can ask me what was I doing on February 11th, 2011? I can tell you exactly. Well, I'm not going to keep it like every day because I do a lot of boring shit too.

Sometimes I just like go to work and go home and see it. It is a good habit because what if you do become the superstar that we all know you will Jess Perkins and one day they'll be like, can you write that tell a book and they'll ask you what you were doing. Yeah. I'm February 11th. 2011. So in case you write a book one day Jess, waste your time writing in his diary, come on days that we're suggesting. Just keep a calendar. You got a cute good calendar. I've got a Google calendar. You changed my life with that Google calendar. It needs to be

a strict color coordinated diary kind of girl. Now I'm a strict color coordinated Google calendar kind of girl. I can access that anywhere. Yes. In the cloud, Dave. Think about it. So good. Still yet to fully transition to the cloud. The motorcycle diaries is also made into a film. Planes, transit, and automobiles. No,ives is also made into a film. Plans trans and auto-mobile. No, it was actually made into a film. A change travelled alone to Miami, this is still on the journey, before flying home to his family, now a changed man.

He formed the view that the only way for the masses to restore a quality and break free from their oppression, that in many cases still stem from colonialism, was through armed revolution. He wrote this in his diary. I will be on the side of the people. I will take to the barricades and the trenches, screaming as one possessed. We'll stain my weapons with blood and mad with rage. We'll cut the throat of any vanquished foe, I encounter. So this journey has really changed him. That sounds like you're doing like old school Roman stuff or something. Yeah.

I've just been with him in a podcast about it. All right. So, basically, cutting the throats of the vanquish, somebody said? Yeah. Vivid. Vivid imagery. He completed his medical studies in 1953 and then hit the road again, traveling through Central America, eventually settling for a time in Guadalamala,

where President Jacobo Arbens was in charge of a progressive regime that was attempting to bring about a social revolution. President Arbens was trying to implement radical land reforms and give land back to the poorer people that lived in this country. It was at this time that Gavara got the nickname Che. What does Che mean? Well, in Argentina where Che is from, as well as a couple other Latin American countries, Che is used as colloquial slang and can take the form of friend, a bit like mate or bro.

Right. Oh, great. But it can also, this is where it goes complicated, it can also be used in place of hey, or at the end of this sentence, like in Canada when they say, Hey. On New Zealand. Che at the end of this sentence, like in Canada when they say, A, on New Zealand. C, at the end. So it could be like mate or you can just slip it in and Gavara used the phrase a lot and

because this really stood out and got a mala, friends started to call him C and it stuck. Ah, I love it. Is that a cool nickname, sorry. Yeah. And it's C, not C, obviously. So I think I've always said Che. Che, Che is more fun. Jerkian? Yeah, Che.

Oh Guevara is popularly not how about have a crack at this. Simply as L Che, the Che in many Latin American countries. I think it's that it's don't just call him Che, because they use that for word. So Che is like bro or mate, so it'd be like calling you bro or wanna key, which is fun. Mate or wanna key. Yeah. Matey Perkins. Mate Perkins.

Mate Perkins. Mate Stewart. Mate Stewart. Mate Stewart. That's efficient. I only need to change one letter. Sometimes when I type your name, it comes out as mate. And I'm like, well, they're both good.

It's all true. Yeah. I say thanks, mate or thanks, mate. And it's still, I can't go wrong. they're both good. It's all true. Yeah. I say, thanks, Matt, or thanks, mate. And it's still, you still get it. I still get it. Yeah. This guy gets it. Me.

I'm this guy. It was also when Guatemala that she met Hilda Gadia a Costa, a Peruvian woman who would go on to become his first wife. Well, we've got an Acosta listener, Miguel Acosta, I think. It's a good name. It's great. Better than a Hilda.

Hilda. Hilda is a strong name. Is it? I think that man, she's actually, manly referred to as Gadea. Mm. It's all of these are great. Mm. Mm.

She was an economist who was well connected politically as a member of the left leaning American that popular revolutionary alliance. Putting popular in an actual smart politically. It is. People get you to. I argue with that. No, we're popular. No, you know, we don't like it. Look at the name. Yeah, it's in the name, man. Just vote for us. You know, you want to. We're popular. Don't you want to vote to everyone else vote? Yeah. We're neither way. We're popular. The Guatemalan leader, Arben, who I was talking about before,

trying to implement these land reforms was overthrown in a coup supported by the CIA. A coup d'état? A two-day coup d'état. The CIA actually is fucking around a lot in central and South America and this part, this time in history. Sort of choosing which leaders to back and who they don't want to, you know, choosing Ray James and stuff. It's all a bit dodgy. And Che began to think that the US would

always oppose any left-wing government. This became the cornerstone of his plans to bring about socialism by means of a worldwide revolution. It was in Guatemala that Guevara became a dedicated Marxist. So there's all this stuff that's happened in his life and he's sort of going more and more left becoming more and more radicalized. With all the... Like. Oh yeah. Shackas.

Shacka Luckin. Please. Still trying to make that happen. Because you said Radikul wrong. He said like Radikul. Yeah. What a square. It's not just a square peg, Dave.

Trying to fit into my round hole. Whoa. I'm coming nowhere near your round hole. Yeah, it's because you're a square peg. We're looking for a square hole. You just don't get it. Tweet me out, Dave. I want to give you a square hole.

Oh dear. Don't, Tweet him, please. Uh, Chae left Guatemala and headed to Mexico Mexico where he met and became close friends with Rahul Castro. Yes. Good name. Who would be in the, Rahul. Rahul.

Rahul. Rahul. Who would be in closely involved in the 1953 rebellion in Cuba. So now I have to give you a bit of background here as to what was happening in Cuba at the time because it's a very important part of the story. Oh, Dave. It's a little Raycaptures. Get on board. I don't get geography.

Can you do it in a montage? Yes. Queue music. Music from the Holiday of Pasta had probably offensive. Okay. Cuba had become independent from the US. You know what Cuba is. Sure.

It's a large island in the Caribbean. Central America. That's right. Just south of Florida. And the Florida key. Yeah. I've seen Mikhail's Navy. They're going to make Tom Anol.

Brazil, please. Tom Anol. Oh, thanks for that reference that we all go to. So basically, pretty sure that's sentence, Cuba. At least partly. Cuba had become independent from the US in 1902. And after that followed many decades of instability, rocked by a revolt and coups, today, and also many day tasks.

A man named Fulgencio Batista. Yes. Yes. It's a good name named Fulgencio Batista. Yes. That's a good name, Fulgencio Batista. Yes. Had served earlier as Cuban President in the 1940s, and in 1952 he became President for a second time through a military coup. Although respected in his first term as El Presidente,

he cancelled the 1952 elections and began to rule as a dictator. Cuba had high unemployment for locals and Batista formed deals with American companies that began to dominate and exploit the Cuban economy. Most of the highly profitable sugar industry was in US hands and foreigners owned 70% of the country's arable land. Batista also turned... You're thinking of Ariolas, which I forget what they are. They're the Nipple bits. Yeah, the around it. Yeah.

But Teester also teamed up with the American Mafia who ran casinos on the illicit drug trade. So the US government armed and politically supported this Teester dictatorship because it was good for the US economy. So pretty much him and the political elites are living the high life, but stuff for Cubans, the general population is not good. Not good. So Fidel Castro was a young outspoken Cuban lawyer in the 1950s.

He tried to challenge Batista through the courts, but got nowhere, because the dictator just sort of got away with everything. And he came to the conclusion, this is Fidel, that revolution was the Cuban people's only answer. So Fidel and his brother, Rahul, tried to rebel with a group called the movement,

but they were decisively crushed by Batista and both Castro brothers were imprisoned. At his trial, Fidel cast a gaver, four hour patriotic speech in his defense that has since gone on to be quite famous. He ended with the words, can then me, it does not matter, history will absolve me. He's a real good speaker. A real good sp... Oh yeah. He's a real good but. He's real good.

He was sentenced to 15 years jail for the revolution, so he's speaking dendet that well. But under political pressure, Batista had to free him in 1955, which looking back is a bad choice for Batista because Fidel and Rahul Castro fled Cuba for Mexico where they met Che and were able to regroup and rekindle their dreams of revolution. So that's the background here. Is this what the Tracey Chapman song is about? Baby, we got it first, cause travel way again,

we're driving for baby and baby. Is that the song you're in? Sure. What was the track you're talking about? If you only stay here, around her, around her. Talking about revolution. But okay. So every time you said revolution, it's in my head. Don't you know, talking a revolution sounds like a whisper.

I'd drink a long conversation with Fidel in the first night of their meeting. Gavera concluded that the Cubans' cause was the one for which he had been searching. And before daybreak he had signed up as a member of the July 26 movement, which is what they were calling themselves, named after an attack on Santiago de Cuba Armibaric's on July 26, 1950. Santiago, Wales, vagina. Gravera was recruited as the group's medic, although he did take part in military training in particular guerrilla warfare. The movement knew that they would be outnumbered, so they were trained in hitting the enemy and then retreating into the wilderness.

Despite essentially signing up to just be the group's doctor, Gavere was actually considered by their instructor, General Beo as his prize student, and the best gorilla of them all. Oh, that's cool. I love gorillas. So he was bad-ass. Gorillas. I love them. Just to rephrase the thing I said. Okay.

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and financial aid is available to qualified students, including the GI Bill. Now is the time, mycomputercareer.edu. Uh, Gavira married Gadi, whatever I was calling you before in Mexico, in September 1955, before embarking on his plan to assist in the liberation of Cuba It's time for a revolution. Yes But El Castro led a team of 82 men including Gavara from Mexico back to Cuba The men traveled aboard the grandma an old leaky. It sounds like grandma

I know it's like grandma without the day and you said the same word twice grandma I know it sounds like grandma without the day. You said the same word twice. Grandma. I know it sounds like grandma. Grandma. Oh, sorry. Well, it basically is. It's an old leaky cabin cruiser. The boat was so... It basically is a grandma.

It's old and leaky. Oh, it is. I don't want to speak for your grandma. Very accommodating. Makes great cookies. And sends me $100 in my birthday. What? You get a hundred bucks?

I don't know. Look, I just pulled a figure out of the air. Really, it's in thousands. He doesn't. He's trying to think of the smallest amount that someone might get in an envelope. I wanted to send relatable to Matt. The working class, Matt.

You've got to divide it a little more than that. Okay. I was pretty happy to say, if you got a $5 in an envelope. Oh my God, but when you grow up $5, that was a different time. 700 shillings. Yes. I was converting it to the modern speak. It was, yeah, throppence. Throppence.

Oh, I know. And then what would you do with your throppence? Oh, I'd buy a bag of pigeon feed, go down to the square, sing a song. Why, why you singing a song? I don't know. Well, Charles did a very musical time. Is he your 24th birthday again? Yeah.

Can I get your foot on a pigeon? Oh, Charles and Tavantil and Nanny came along and she really brought music and wonder at the loss. Thruppin's a bag, okay I get it. Oh I love it. So the grandma. The grandma. And I've seen this, by the way I was inspired to do this story after I went to Cuba earlier in the year and I let the Patreon people vote.

For the Patreon people I learned about in Cuba. And they picked a cheve. And I'm going to, for the, for the Patreon people, I will do the other person at a later date. Not if I get to it first. Oh, Zaha. Well, I mean, they'll still be happy

because they get to hear you talk about it so as far as. Ah, we're all winners here. I'm the grandma, which I've seen the boat in Havana, it is a leaky old cabin cruiser, and you don't look at it and go, yeah, that's a revolutionary's boat. The boat was extremely overloaded and barely reached the shore, because I had 82 people on board.

They landed in the Cuban province of Oriente on December 2, 1956, but were immediately detected by patistas men, and the revolutionary's were almost instantly wiped out. Whoa! Many were killed in the fight or executed upon surrender or capture. Whoa!

During this initial bloody confrontation, Guevara laid down his medical supplies and picked up a box of ammunition dropped by a fleeing comrade. And with this, he had fully transitioned from medic to soldier. That's cool. Very symbolic moment. Hmm. Are on the 22 of the original 82 were able to find each other again, and they fled into the mountains. Wow.

So, they got fucked up. Chase survived as did both the Castro brothers and once established in the mountains, the small band prepared for an extended guerrilla campaign. So there's only 22 people left, but they're not giving up. Out of 82. And they still think they can overthrow a government with 22 people. That's amazing. That's smaller than like your average primary school classroom. You know? That's at least 30 little Takas. Imagine my grade three class trying to take on the Cuban government. Oh, no way. Especially when two of the three classes got blown up. Oh my God.

That's crazy. Sounds like much older, though, every game. Oh, man. We turn back. I'll give Eric a quickly proved himself to Castro and became one of his most trusted allies. His intelligence, determination, dedication, and toughness made him extremely valuable to the cause.

And he was quickly promoted through the revolutionary ranks. I mean, you kind of make up your own ranks, don't you? I mean, and also there's only 22. 22, all of a sudden, yeah. You don't want to be the lowest rank. I'm like, to real lose it. I'm 21st in charge. Miguel, clean the fucking toilet.

Yeah, but I, you get to boss around one dude. Yeah. Gaveoera was put in charge of a unit and insisted us, a unit, again get to boss around one dude. Yeah. Giverrero was put in charge of a unit and insisted us, a unit, again, probably like six dudes, and it just stood on discipline and the importance of the Communist cause. He was also instrumental in teaching new recruits,

so they were getting new people coming and joining them because a lot of people hated the government. So people were joining them. He taught them guerrilla tactics. He also established health clinics, a newspaper to disseminate information, and Rebel Radio, which broadcast news to the Cuban people with statements from the 26th of July movement. So that's how they recruited people. They would talk about how. But

he's a fucking U-Royal. You should come and join us and people were doing that. He was promoted to Commander of a Second Army column, effectively now second in command. It was a second in command that you began to show his ruthless side. As a disciplinarian, he was very harsh and sometimes had defectors shot. He was personally responsible for a number of summary executions of people accused of being either spies or defectors. How do you picture a summary execution, I think, like Bahamas, a banana lounge, poisoned Mahito. What a way to go, huh?

What a way to go. The first person that you personally executed was Uttimio Guerra, who was not shot with a Mahito. Guerra was a Mahito. A Pina Calada then. What do you got? My second favorite choice. No, no, no, you love a peanut collada.

Oh, gosh. Is that pineapple and milk, right? It's such a basic bitch. No, it's a white rum and pineapple, yeah. I'm such a bass. I love them. That's OK. You're a lad.

Love them, is it? I'm not a shame. I'm proud the order wanted to buy it. I can afford it. If grandma sent me $200, I'd you. So Guwera was an army guard who admitted to giving away the rebels position in exchange for money. So he was a traitor. After his admission, Guwera asked that they quote,

end his life quickly. So, chase step forward and just shot him in the head. Whoa. Shay wrote this in his diary, still keeping it diary. The situation was uncomfortable for the people and for Utimio. So I ended the problem, giving him a shot with a 32 pistol in the right side of the brain with exit orifice in the right temporal lobe.

God, he's very detailed, isn't he? And also, that's a very cold way of writing him out how you murder someone. Yeah. And why I kind of prefer Karl and the Kahn's die where it's like something terrible happened, but I don't want to talk about it. That I almost prefer that. Che is a little too clinical. Do you think I'll just kill the moose?

Yeah, probably. It does show a side of him. He's very committed to the cause, but also like every brutally. Yeah, met like doctors talk about human body as if it's not a Human right that's just part of what he would have done as a doctor very quite clinical. Yeah Yeah, but the situation was uncomfortable and I ended the problem giving him a shot in the head. That's pretty But he ending the problem

I'm not I'm him. I was playing alive. Yeah, I thought, but didn't you say he asked him to do it quickly? Basically, well, I think he knew he was gonna be executed because he, because that feels like that's, for it, that's rather than going all right, tomorrow you're gonna be executed, standing over there, and having to have that whole last night.

Hmm, hmm, hmm. Yeah, but. But, in the situation we never find ourselves in, and having to have that whole last night. Hmm. Yeah, but- That's the least situation we never find ourselves in. Being traders to a band of revolutionary communists. So Che was feared by his troops, but also deeply respected. He would take time to educate them

and would entertain them with readings of poetry. So I just shot a man and his a poetry. That's fun. I just shot a man. Here's a picture of a fruit flan. That kind of poetry. Yeah. He just rifted. Topical. Yeah, real topical. He was having a really just, he wasn't even holding a fruit flan. It was actually a cheesecake. So that just showed you how creative he could be. Improv. Improv. He's got it. He's got the gift, the gab. Yeah. He never blocks. Never blocks. He does exeggish people. Thomas Elba, who fought under Gavarras, command, later stated that

Che was loved in spite of being stern and demanding. We would have given our life for him. Oh. And many of them did. The guerrillas constantly battled with Petista's army. And by 1958 them did. The guerrillas constantly battled with Batista's army, and by 1958 the dictator had had enough and ordered his army to wipe out Castro's forces for good. He sent a large part of his army into the jungle to combat the smaller guerrilla force. But this proved to be a disastrous military era as the rebels having hidden out in the mountain for over two years knew the terrain far better than the army and were able to easily defeat them. At this point, many of Petites has been deserted him and joined Castro's now growing army.

So it was a real error. What should he have done? Probably held back and waited for them to try and face him. Just let him slowly grow. Oh, I suppose. try and face him. Just let him slowly grow. He probably should have bombed them from above. Now you're talking like a military bust. With love. Yeah, flyers. Hey guys, we can wait this out. Maybe you could have changed his ways and made the people love him and sort of snuff them out that way. Just being a good leader. Imagine. Yeah, I mean, if you... That was his first problem was being a piece of shit leader.

Giveras Unit was tasked with taking the strategically placed city of Santa Clara, which he was able to do so, despite having only 300 troops and facing over 2000. Wow. Many in the Cuban army did not do much to stop Che. They basically... A lot of them just sort of rolled over. Yeah, rolled over.

Again, because they don't respect their leader. On New Year's Day 1959, Guevara took the city and Batista, who's the dictator, immediately fled the island with an amassed personal fortune and he went to the Dominican Republic. Oh, so there you go. It had taken two years, but the revolution that

had started with just 82 people that was knocked down to just 22 people had actually been successful. Wow! It's crazy. That is crazy. It's crazy. After Castro's victorious troops entered Havana, the main city on January 8th, 1959, Givero served for several months at La Cabana Prison, where he was tasked with rounding up officials from the Batista regime, so finding the old enemies. He was instrumental in organizing several hundred trials for these officials, of which the majority resulted in the guilty verdict, and the men in question were executed. Oh, wow.

This estimated that between 156 and 550 people were executed on Gavarras extra-digital orders during this time. That's a huge range. No. There's a big range. Not great. Dairy keeper now. It's not like between 55 and 60, and you're like,

yeah, fair enough. That's a huge range. I think people who don't like him say it's 550, people who do like him say it's only 156. Right. And they battle it out. Do we know what happened to the barista? He eventually was accepted by the Portuguese dictator and lived out his days in Portugal.

So he got away with it. He got away with it. Back to this story, the global community was appalled at this brutality of these, often they were basically show trials. It's not like they went to court for 18 months. A lot of them had a court hearing in front of about five people for about 15 minutes. And I was like, no, you're guilty out the back, shall I? No, I'm not. Yeah, you are.

You are. No, I'm not. How do you plead? Not guilty. Now you are. Yeah. Can I out the back? No reason.

Come on. So Gavera was copying it internationally, but he's unwavering belief in the rightness of the Communist revolution left him unmoved. It should be noted that these harsh punishments were widely supported by the Cuban public, who the Petista regime had suppressed, tortured and murdered for many years, but does that ever justify execution with that proper trial? I don't think so. No, so Gavara is a hero to many people people and as you'll continue to hear, but to others, he is a villain.

Okay, correct, because at the start of this, all that I knew the name, but that's about it, it actually really didn't know anything. And I was going to ask, is he a goodie or a badie? Because I feel like in some films or whatever any time I've had mentioned these either like patrata's a villain or as like a real hero and I was like I don't know what we're about to discuss. I remember did you come up across this at uni they used to talk about it all the time. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist and vice versa.

Yeah that's pretty accurate here. Yeah, wow, okay cool So I'll continue on and maybe at the end you can say and I still I imagine at the end you'll be still unsure So confused. Yeah, cuz people are complex. Yeah, and he's very complex. Yeah, that's one of the most famous people of the last century He's very complex. Yeah, he became this Rivera became a Cuban citizen and served as a Ministry of Industry as well as President of the National Bank of Cuba. It's because Fidel really trusted him. So he gave him these positions of power where Jay famously demonstrated his disdain for capitalism

by signing currency simply, Jay. Oh, fuck, he's cool. You didn't really like my name. Decision made. He's a rock star. He is a rock star, revolutionary. He's a rock star. He is a rock star replacement. Yeah.

He's like, there was a fashion for a little while. Probably not that long over T-shirts with his face on it right? Yes. Just. Chay. Yeah, absolutely. I wonder what brought that about. I don't know.

I gave Erad a number of positive things during his time as Cuban leader. He established universal education. And still when I went to Cuba, they told me that school is free, university is free so you can become a dentist and I'll pay for all your, the government will pay for everything. That's great. Health care free. So you've got to establish universal education and is credited with helping to raise Cuban's literacy rate from as low as just 60% up to 96%. Holy shit. Some of the highest in the world. That's a big jump.

Yeah, he also introduced land reforms and limited the size of all farms to 1000 acres or 400 hectares. Any holdings over these limits were expropriated by the government and either redistributed to peasants in 67 acre parcels or held as state-run communes. Why 67 acre parcels? 270,000 square meters. Thank you. The law also stipulated that sugar plantations

could no longer be owned by foreigners. So he's reclaiming a lot of the land. Wow. Because that was owned by seven or 70% of the land, yeah. 70% was owned by foreigners. So that's puke. And sugar is big money in Cuba. Yeah, he talks to the talk But he it should also be noted that unlike many revolutionaries

He walked the walk if you compare them to for Del Castro who once in power set up home an office in the penthouse of the Havana Hilton Che on the other hand slept in his office often and in support of the volunteer labor program that he organized He spent his day off working in a sugar cane field. Right. Okay. Because a lot of people, once they get the power, they just do anything to cling onto that power, and that's what...

Yeah. You know, all those African dictators I was talking about before, a lot of the time they start out as pretty good dudes, and then they become crazy evil billionaires. Yeah, wow. Yeah, not chay. Gavara also became the face of Cuba, traveling around the world and meeting leaders from 14 countries in Asia and North Africa. He later also traveled to the US,

China, Russia, North Korea, and Ireland. He had Irish roots. Ah, long-distance, long-distance Irish roots. I think what must happen is people just get at first. I think they don't know I think they've set something up, but they are afraid to give away to share Share it with others You know the responsibility. Yeah, so they get protective This is a big this is what I'd be guessing and then they go no, I don't trust you with the money

I'll handle all that and then eventually they lose them on didn't their mind. So you reckon with something like that? Yeah, for sure. But I don't know what's the point of drawing stuff in a fleet of Bentley's and you're like, yeah, I'm still a revolutionist. Yeah, that's the same weird to me, like how do you reconcile that in your own mind? It feels weird, like if I've said to anyone that I'm doing something, I feel awful if I back out of it. Let alone going, hey, we're all in this together,

we're all equal now, and then go, no, I don't know, I never said that. I mean, we are all equal, I'm just like a higher level of equal. I've just got 13 Benlies. What? Nothing wrong with that. It's important for us together that I have many, many Bentley. I think it is.

Also important that in the Constitution, it says that I have a direct line with God and whatever I say goes. Okay. Because I'm the other one. Can be trusted for us to all be equal. That would be cool. Very bad.

Like, Avera was instrumental in shifting the country's trade relations from the United States, who are obviously very close geographically, to the Soviet Union, who also comments at the time. A result of this shift with the Soviet Union installing nuclear missiles on the island of Cuba, only a hundred miles from the US mainland. This led to the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was a 13-day standoff between the US and the Soviets, and is hopefully the closest will ever come to an all-in nuclear world war. But I'd like to save that mammoth topic for a future report.

I'll be honest, I know that phrase, the the Cuban missile crosses, but I don't know. I now know 100% more than I did in two minutes ago. So Chey had a lot to do with that. Right. He basically invited the missiles onto Cuba, basically in a really quick summary, America found out that Russia had nuclear missiles 100 miles away from them and freaked the fuck out. Yes. As you would. As you would.

But we'll talk about that another time because it's a really massive subject. Cheygrou increasingly disheartened however as Cuba became a sort of client state of the Soviet union. Increasingly disillusioned with the direction of the Cuban social experiment and its reliance on the Soviets, Giverabag began focusing his attention on fostering revolution elsewhere in the world. By this point he'd realized that government work, even at a very high influential level, was not right for him. He was a natural revolutionary and wanted to dedicate his life to freeing other countries. So after April 1965, he dropped out of public life. His movements and whereabouts for the next two years remained secret. Many speculated that he'd fallen out with Castro and possibly even been killed.

So the world was for a couple of years wondering where he was. It was later learned that he'd traveled to what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Africa with other Cuban guerrilla fighters. He spent nine months there but was was unable to achieve anything. During this period Giverra resigned. He is ministerial position in the Cuban government and renounced his Cuban citizenship. After the failure of his efforts in the Congo, he fled first to Tanzania and then to a safe house in a village near Prague where we spent a lot of his time writing books. Wow. He's a fascinating man. Yeah.

Where's his wife? By this point, he's onto his second wife. Right. And he does manage to have five children himself. I love him so much. They are separated. A lot. It's way too others go.

What can't he do? He's pretty amazing. Do you ever write that down? You're sorry, how he may have kids by himself because that would probably answer a lot of our questions. I can't. We could finally get rid of men. Bye, boy.

Wait, hang on, I think we're women. No. Chase has gone solo. OK, where are you going to grow it? Hmm? Hmm? That's what I thought. In N.J.

Yeah. In J. We grow. Yeah. In Shay we grow. Yeah. I always said that. Yeah, I've always said that. I've never understood it until now. Finally, it makes sense. So many episodes later. Yeah, I've asked you and you just said, maybe one day. That's today. The prophecy. The prophecy.

The prophecy is true. Oh boy. Dominic, are you here? Yes. In the autumn of 1966, Rivera went to Bolivia in Cognita. He was beardless and bold. Oh. Oh, you know.

He went there to create and lead a guerrilla group in the region of San Jacuz. After some initial combat successes. I'm imagining. You try and look at Matt. Yeah, I'm just holding up a hand to cover up. Matt, Matt, be a lesson. I reckon you could go in convivio at the symbol. Yeah, I wouldn't recognize it. Especially in Bolivia. Where you are massive. I wouldn't want to be sane. Yeah. That's a laugh today. But if I was being lessened bold. You're on your way. Yeah, bolding.

So he didn't send to Cruz. He's hanging out with another guerrilla group and after some initial combat success, Gavaran is a guerrilla band found themselves constantly on the run from the guerrilla band. They were traveling like folk band. We got a double bass. It's very hard to run from the Bolivian army when you've got a double bass on your back. That's what they were really missing fiddle Castro. He was a kill.

It's a gay member. I want to see you hate yourself for that. They were really missing Fiddle Castro. He was a kill. It's a gay member. I want to see how you sell for that. So much. That's very good. Fiddle Castro. And a one and two. So they're on the run from the Bolivian Army. The group was almost annihilated by a special. Do you believe it?

Oh, we're losing control of this. So they're on the run from the Bolivian army the group was almost annihilated by a special Bolivian Oh, where is the control of this Ask me how much I hate myself. Do you hear how much I hate so much? You hear Matt's pun and you're like I can I can do that but worse Just give me a crack You're one of Bolivian You know hear your back. It's very good. You're a wooden Bolivian. You know what, hearing it back, it's very good. It's good.

It's good, Matt. Come on, it's good. That is good. I'm not done. I'm not done. I know. There were almost annihilated by a special detachment of the Bolivian Army, again aided by CIA advisors.

Oh. By the... So the US government do not like trade. By the time the soldiers began to close in on Gavar and his men only 20 or so remained and were running out of essential food and supplies. On October 7th Gavar stopped in the ravine to recuperate and peasants living in the area informed the Bolivian army that Chase was there. Oh, sold him out.

What a pack of dogs. Wild dogs or whatever. What them. You're all dogs. What was in it for the peasants? They were just believers in, or did not mean that. Believers. I think they might have might think that, hey, we're not with them. Don't burn aviolous damage. Right, right.

I think 1800 troops closed in. Why not? Successive. So they really think a lot of Gavara. And he's... They believe you in him. Oh, my God. Fuck you.

You laugh every time. You laugh and... It's getting better every time it's laugh. Exactly. So they, I didn't have a troops close in it. And Gavara sustained a wound to his leg and several other rebels were killed. He escaped, but only for one more day. His leg riddled with bullets, his gun knocked out of his hand, and Nesto Che Guevara surrendered. He said, Do not shoot! I am Che Guevara and worth more to you alive than dead."

Oh! He was taken to a one-room schoolhouse in the village. The US government wanted him alive to be interrogated, but Bolivian leaders decided that Gavira must be executed fearing a public trial would only garner him more sympathy. The official story was to be that he was killed in battle. Felix Rodriguez, a Cuban American CIA operative posing as a Bolivian military officer, informs Che that he was going to be executed. This is from something that Rodriguez said in a 60 minutes interview years later, so take that what you will. It's going to make himself sound good. I looked him straight in the face and I just told him, he looks straight to me and said, it's better this way. I should

never have been captured alive. The two men's shook hands. This is Rodrigo's again. He embraced me. I embraced him. Of course he can say that. He told me you're a genius. You are a great guy. And you should do whatever you want. By hope this isn't too frank, but you have the biggest penis I've ever seen in my life. God, look at that thing. So anyway, that's what he said, I guess. He said.

Yeah. He also demanded. He pulled my pants back up and I was on my way. He also demanded that I not admit this part of the story. I said, look, I'll be very embarrassed telling this to six years. He said, please tell them. He said, I'm humble.

I said, and he said, the people they know. And this is where you'll flash my phone number on the screen, right? Flash flash. Cool now. He said, don't, whatever you do, don't leave it out. But in the cat, sorry, that's in the story in the room here,'t leave it out. But in the cat, sorry, that's in the story. In the room here, please leave it out. I cannot believe you. You too. I cannot believe you. This is going to be fun

for weeks. This is the series part of the story. Oh. Rodriguez left ordering a soldier Sergeant Terran to shoot below the neck because that would fit the official story that Guevara had died in combat. A few minutes later, Sergeant Terran entered the hut to shoot him. We're upon Guevara reportedly stood up and spoke to Terran and his last words were, I know you've come to kill me. Shoot coward, you are only going to kill a man. Awesome last words. you are only going to kill a man. Awesome last words.

You're only going to kill a man. No, I'm not a legend. Like, I'm just a person. He's the world famous Che Guevara, like the revolutionary hero, but I'm just a normal guy. You're not going to destroy the revolution by killing me. I'm just a man. I'm just a man. Great line.

Great line. Great line. I think that read myself as well. Despite what a lot of people say, I am just a man. Who has said otherwise? And countless others. Countless. Countless. So few I cannot count. Anyway, Tehran Fired, Strucking G Gavara in the arms, legs and chest. Oh. Chase was pronounced dead. He was 39 years old. First they took photos of his body,

then cut off his hands and put them in formaldehyde so they could use his fingerprints to prove that he was dead. So no one could deny that they'd killed the great chagavare. Oh my God. He was buried in a mass grave and his body was lost for decades.

Well, I found it. Until in 1995, a year-long search for his remains in Bolivia was ultimately successful. Chase Body was found in a grave with six others. Basically, they found a man with both hands missing and they were like, this could be him and they matched the dental records and it was him. Oh, wow. How many years later is this? Nearly 30 years later.

It's a hands missing, it's from skeletons skeletons basically skeletons? Yeah. So, you know, I mean, skeletons sort of hold together a bit. I imagine a whole pile of bones. They just sort of still stick together. Jangly bones. Well, I mean, if you think about it, and I will. It's not like they're not buried in coffins. They just put into a pit and the counter then buried over. So there's no room for the bones to move. There's still stays still in the dirt. 30 years. Yeah. Like how they find fossils and stuff. Chase Body was found in the grave of six others, as I said, and they were all laid to rest with military honors and especially built Maurylium in the Cuban city of Santa Clara.

That's amazing that they found him. I know it's crazy. 30 years later. Wow. That's amazing that they found him. I know, it's crazy. 30 years later. Wow. A Che had secretly visited Cuba in 1965 to see his second wife and wrote a letter to be given to his five children upon his death. It ends with, above all, always be capable of feeling deeply any injustice committed against anyone, anywhere in the world.

This is the most beautiful quality in a revolutionary. Hmm. Yeah. I think it's hard to, like from the story you've told, it's hard to think of him too negatively. Have it, did you go through sources that were more negative than others or? Yeah, so it is very one side versus the other. So the legacy of Chagavar is complicated and controversial to say the least are at here. He is praised by him, including Nelson Mandela, who said he is quote an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom. Others, however, seem as

a fanatical murderer and a callous executioner. Their biggest problem is when he executed those people in that prison. Yes. Often without a proper trial. Yeah, but that's, it could be up to 500 people executed. Yeah, that's, that's no good. Now, here remains a national hero in Cuba, where his image can be seen all over the place, including on a three-peso bank note, a Drowpaster football stadium, and there's just a big image of Che Guevara above that. There's a giant decal in Revolution Square and Havana of his face. He's in street art everywhere and school children still apparently begin each

morning by pledging, we will be like Che. Oh wow. But it should be noted in Cuba. It was only April this year that 2018 that the country received its first non-Castro president in 40 years. And the new president, Miguel Diaz Canal, was Roles, Castro's deputy before he took over So of course they love Che because they're still in power 40 years later with no elections or anything and He's part of their myth. Yeah, so it serves them well to praise right Che That's amazing. Yeah, so there's a lot lots of taking that I just wanted to finish off by talking about the most iconic image of Che, probably the one that you imagined at the time.

Is he wearing a beret? He's wearing a beret and he's staring off into the distance. So it's very iconic. Yeah. And it's seen on all sorts of merchandise you mentioned in the T-shirts before, which is very ironic. Yeah. He's so...

...entire capitalist. The Maryland Institute College of Art called the picture a symbol of the 20th century and the world's most famous photograph And I don't know if this is just my internet but when I googled world's most famous photograph He came up as number one really yeah just on your internet Directly just on my my search settings, but I mean because I have to spend a whole week. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say Let me google it now worlds What about most type whole week. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Let me Google it now. Worlds. What about most, type in most famous photo. That's what I typed in.

Most, most famous photo. I typed that phrase in. Just most famous photo. Go. Oh, yeah. So he comes up there. He's up there. He's up there.

I'm not crazy. But that is because. It's so is a photo by Sally Mann, a photographer I studied in year 11 photography. Oh, they go. I think potentially part of that is because it's captioned the most famous photograph. Because this one's come up a lot. That's very famous. Oh, the Afghani go with the eyes.

Yeah. I'm beautiful eyes, yeah. So, yes, it's a very famous photo. I just wanted to quickly talk about it. It was captured on March 5th, 1916, Havana and Cuba by a local fashion photographer, Alberto Corder. The image is called Guerrilla Ro, Herobico.

Which I thought you would like, man. Guerrilla, I love it. You love Guerrilla. I kind of, yeah. I love Guerrilla's no doubt about that. And I love that second word, grills. I kind of, yeah. I love, I love gorillas. No doubt about that. And I love that second word, can you say it again? Heroic, oh yeah, that's male. Rilano, heroic, oh.

Che was 31 at the time it was taken. Ah, okay, cool. The photo of Che was not initially chosen for publication. So he was there to cover an event that just been a large explosion in the Havana harbor and a lot of people had died So a lot of famous people came together and quarter was just taking photos of the different people And basically he took two shots one That was portrait and one landscape and then Che sort of moved out of position

But you know he really liked the photo and he printed it This is quarter and put a copy and hung it on his own wall. Oh! Then seven years later, a couple of months before Che's death, a man named Gian Giacomo Fel Trinelli. What a name. A Nocton Cora's door and asked him for a good photo of Che for a cultural think tank that was hoping to export the ideology of the Cuban Revolution.

Requesting that he have a good picture of Che. Court appointed to his studio wall where the picture was still hanging and said, this is my best picture of Che. One Che died just a few months later. Giangia Como began selling millions of copies of the image of Che as a poster. Within six months of Che's assassination,

Giangia Como sold over two million posters bearing this image, giving no credit or money to Cora. So a bit of a dog act, but he did help make the image famous. Cora also expressed that he forgave him, because through his actions, the image became internationally recognized. That's a great way to be able to think about things. Yeah, a lot of people would be a bit about that forever.

I guess the reality is it would never have got out of Cuba without him. So Gian Jacamo, you're calling, a fellow finale was mysteriously murdered not long afterwards. So what ebbs? Okay. Oh dear. As a lifelong communist and supporter for the Cuban Revolution until his death, Alberto Corda claimed no payment for his picture when people started attributing it to him.

Right. He didn't want any money for it, even though it could have made him a wealthy man. The only time he used his copyright was in the year 2000 when Smurnoff used the picture of Chey in a commercial. Corda did not want commercialization of the image in relation to products he believed Guevara would not support, especially alcohol. He sued Smurnov. The final result was an adequate settlement for $50,000 to court, which to a Cuban person is a lot of money, but he donated it to the Cuban health care system stating, if Che was still alive, he would have done the same.

Wow. What a guy. That's amazing. He died a few years ago. Ah. It's cool. Isn't that crazy? It's just a some guy that you don't know,

and it's one of the most famous photographs of all time. But that is my report on Che Guevara, a very divisive figure. Thank you. I still don't know how I feel about him. Yeah, I know what you mean. Amazing ideals, but then like... In mass murder. Yeah, but then I also, like, can you...

He believed that the only way to get change was via Violin Coo. Oh, if he believed that then, okay. Well, that probably is the best way, but then it for change, who knows? Violence for change. And how do you think it ended up? Well, then I know poor or Cuban people, they've had the same group of leaders for four decades. That's insane. That's cut off from the world in many, many ways opened up a little bit more now. Yeah, because I don't know heaps about that either, but it doesn't

feel like obviously the initial idea was not followed through. No, because in some ways it is to come into society and that they all get a bit of food and a bit of water from the government and that they have their healthcare taken care of, but also they are still very poor as a whole. Right. You know, so it's difficult to say. Hmm. Well, you are an expert on this, so I imagine you'll make it same easy. Yeah, that's right.

And I'll sum it up with these two words. Viva, a revolution. Matt, your favorite two words? I love those words. Love those words. So you, only two free pints. Yeah, pints has been free pints for too long. Get him out. Pints, pints, pints. Now that is great. A very interesting, yeah, I'm not entirely sure where I sit, but a very interesting story. I don't think I have the something to be a

revolutionary. God no. I know the something for much to be honest. Yeah. I don't have the passion. I'm very lazy. I imagine it depends like sometimes it just has to happen. You probably don't need to revolt right now because you live in the affluent east of that is true. But then the affluent country.

Chey could have been a fairly wealthy doctor in Argentina if you wanted to. True. Because I also think about them, like, oh, of course, I don't want to revolt. Like, everything's good for me. But then, Shay saw other people suffer. See, that's why I do respect him. Because he saw other people suffering

and said, I want to do something about this. And did. But the way he often went about it can be seen as quite jealous. Yeah, exactly. Mmm. Ugh. Ugh.

Complex. A very complex individual, but there you go. Maybe I've opened up some people's interest and maybe they'll get that dusty book off the shelf that they wanted a Quiz Knight a few years back and read it for themselves. It's more learning. Yeah, all right.

Form an opinion. I reckon I'll do that. Mmm. One day. Yeah, it's like every time we talk about a film, I'm like, I'm going to watch that and I never do. But I'm sure you'll find 50 books that say he's an absolute icon and 50 books that say he's an absolute murderer.

Right. You'll have to read 100 books and then decide. That's so many books. But thank you to for listening to the show and thanks to everyone that suggests topics and stuff you can do. So by visiting our website, dogoonpod.com and submit an idea. The idea of Che Guevara has been sitting there

for a long, long time in the original hat. Yes. I've recently amalgamated the older new hats. Now one giant hat. One giant hat, 10 gallon hat. One giant 10 gallon hat. Yeah, hee hee. Pup, pup, pup. Is that what you're doing when you wear the hat?

Yeah. Fair enough, me too. Hey, if you're also on a website, why not check out our merchandise. We've just started selling through Redbubble. You hit the tab shop and we'll take you to the store weakened by T-shirts, but also those same designs can be printed on hoodies, on pants, on mugs, on phone covers, all kinds of stuff. Man, I can't believe I'm saying this on the Chagavara episodes.

What? Why, our stuff. Jay, Papa's got to make a living, okay. All right. So check that out. And you can also support the show through Patreon. That's kind of a crowdfunding communist type thing. Patreon.com slash do go on. Part of a crowdfunding communist type thing. Patreon.com is a super fun part of you

on a support the show, chucking a buck, $2,510 a month, and at various different levels, you can get rewards and exchange, including two bonus episodes every single month that just those people here, shout out all kinds of stuff, bonus content. And we'd like to thank some people that support the show through Patreon right here right now.

What are you thinking? How are we going to thank these six legends? Oh, yeah. Jess, we gave you that. Shit. That, that, that, that, that, that, uh, duty. Let's, uh, well, maybe we'll start thanking someone Dave and while Dave's saying the name, maybe, I have a good idea.

I have a good idea. Great. What do you, what do you, you know, how his nickname came from like a, a, a, a cell mutation in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we could change their first names to a greeting. Okay. Oh, okay.

I was thinking of something similar. Okay. What was he thinking? Well, I mean, he couldn't just let you have it. Could he just? Never. Dave, what were you thinking? Well, I think we can change their name to, um, I, I sell

the mutation. Let's go with that. Well, what are you going to say? It's probably better. No, I think we, we their name to... I'll sell you Tation, let's go with that. Well, what you're gonna say is probably better. No, I think we could actually be the same because you know how Che can mean a sell you Tation but it can also just be bro, mate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It changed their name to something like that as well. Yeah, that's what I mean.

That's what I mean. We can mix it up a little bit. Clearly what she meant. No, perfect. Yeah, great. Perfect, Matt. Do you hear that? Say it again.

Perfect. Thank you. All I heard was perfect Perfect Matt. Do you hear that? Say it again. Perfect. Thank you. All I heard was perfect Matt. Yep. Me too. I'll always be there. I would like to thank another perfect Matt. All the way from St. Kilda here in Victoria. A great supporter of this show. Matthew Webb. Oh Matthew Webb. Oh Matthew Webb.

Hi Matthew Webb. We know you in real life. Yeah. He does. Two is in Melbourne. If you're visiting Melbourne, you should go do his two. Yeah, look at an educational walking tour. Including if you asked for it, I'm sure.

Great comedy spots around Melbourne. I think you might even include them anyway. Yeah. That's great. And he's a fantastic artist. And we love you very much, Matt. If you are actually in Melbourne, and you are interested,

we can hook you up with this tour, just tweet us and we will pass on Matt's details, something that we definitely recommend for a year. 100%. International Interstate people want to learn a bit more about Melbourne. I've been on a few walking tours when I've been overseas, and they've-

They're the best. You cover some of your- The one in Berlin was one of the best things I've ever done. Oh, I did one in Derry in Ireland and it was amazing. Love them. Love a walking tour. Me too. Love it.

I did one in Fana. I learned a bit about Chey on it. There you go. So Matthew Webb, what are we going to? Wow. Mate. Matey Webb. Matey.

I imagine he became an icon. The 100 most influential people of the 21st century, matey web. Hey matey, how are you matey? Friend warner kids. Doesn't matey sort of makes mate a bit patronizing, right? Matey, matey for 30. Thanks matey.

We're at matey mate. Matey mate, that's totally fine. Matey mate web. Matey mate web, love it. And then people in Argentina will be like, is that just a name? Mm. Shai shai, cool beer. Matey mate. Thank you matey mate web. I love it. And then people in Argentina will be like, is that just a name? Um.

Shaye Shay, cool beer. Made him hate. Thank you, made him hate, we're I would also like to thank. Did you just say dairy? I did just say dairy. Because I'm thinking someone from dairy in Great Britain, I would like to thank Shan Lannigan. Is our dairy in Northern Ireland, is it? Yeah. Oh, there you go.

Interesting. Yes. I wanted to start. Well, that's why I'd be JGB, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just panicked. I always panicked when people put on the spot. I'd just say yes and then think, oh my god.

No, I'm at, I'm at, I'm, it's in Ireland, I'm sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, but it was in Northern Ireland. Yeah, and I had the most amazing walking tour guide who was also I think he used to be the postman. So everybody knew him. So you'd be walking along they'd be like, hello, and you'd say hi to everyone. That's so fucking he was in he was. See you're yeah, you're doing a walking tour with the local celebrity. Yeah, perfect. It was awesome. All right, so how do we change that name? Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. It's a great name. Lanagan. Lanagan.

Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan.

Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan.

Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanagan. Lanigan. Right on Lanigan. Sounds like right on, like a right on Moa. Yeah, perfect. Right on Lanigan. That's what I said. I have a right on Lanigan. Right on. It's from your support over in dairy.

Can't believe that's amazing. That's amazing. Can you do it a Dublin accent versus a Northern accent? Yes. I can't do it, no. But there's a difference. Like Jamoan is Northern. Right. It sounds almost a little bit more,

I don't know, not Scottish, more, maybe, yeah. I need to be beautiful. Actually, I really like Northern Ireland. I like them. I like the general. Yeah, it's great, but Northern's very cool, but I can't do it. I don't think I can do a good Irish accent in general to be honest, but I'd, anyway, give it a crack. So should I try things in people too? That'd be great. Okay, great. Well, I would like to thank from St. Petersburg in Florida.

Oh, not far from Cuba. In the Faraday Keys. Is that what the Florida Keys are in Florida? Yeah. Keys, is that just like islands? No, it's like a set of keys. Like a, you know, like a... The keys to the city.

The keys. What? Cool. Dave, I picked up your keys for a bit. Don't be mad at me. Oh, you mad? I do not forgive, and I do not. Well, I would like to thank before I die, apparently. Brent Sonux. Ohux. Sonux.

Oh, that is a sweet. Brent Sonux. Sonux. I'm where we're only trying to the first name here. No, because that is... You don't... You don't... You don't know if you've got a jail. Can that be bro? Bro Sonux. Oh, my God.

That's cool. That's so good. Thanks, bro. I just gave me a shiver. I'm just giving it a shiver. In Florida. Bro Sonux. And we're happy with Sonics there. It's not gonna be right.

Is it? It'll be Sunex. Try to say it like an American would. Yeah, I don't know. Bro Sunex. But you gotta say it like a Florida. Oh. Floridian.

Like flow rider. Oh. Yeah. What's his song? Oh, Matt. He had a big, he's the one who wonders any flowwriter. He's on A sort of kicking around. No, he's probably one of them.

Did he, he did a version of you spin me right round? Maybe right round? They reference on the choruses, I can't. Probably, I don't know. Anyway. Bro? Bro. So yeah, love you work.

Love you work. And I'd also like to thank from Paisley and GB. Paisley, oh. Is that where you reckon that was where the patent comes from? Yeah, yeah, probably. Again, that's me panicking now. Oh, it's in the lowlands of Scotland. I'd like to thank Ross Johnson Moynihan.

Oh, Moynihan. Moynihan is great. Moynihan. It's kid. Moidahan. Moidahan is great. Moidahan. It's kid. What's a moida? Are you gonna change up Russ Johnson or just Russ? Maybe just Russ. Oh, you could have, you could have do the double.

Oh. Bro, pal, moanahan. Because Russ obviously, you know, you'd get, you'd get Russ the boss a lot. And people say boss That's great boss John boss Johnson Moynihan. Oh my god Boss Johnson BJ Moynihan love it Thanks very much boss boss you either boss that is good stuff

Bruce spring same one of my favorite musicians. Incredible. Thanks so much. Man, these names are so good. Very good. It feels like we're making a lot of them worse. Oh, definitely, but I think we can do it. I think we can do it. The other week we really,

we'd say, well, listen, I've such good names. Well, it's Johnson Moynihan, Brent Sonnicks. What else do you ask me? Matthew Webb. Cheyenne Lannigan. I said that right. I thought it was Cheyenne. Cheyenne, that's right.

I'd love to think, if I may, from Newcastle in England, Henri Smith. Henry. Henry Smith. Henry. Henry Smith. That's a good name. I like it. Yeah, I like Henry a lot. Anything coming to mind? Bonjour Smith. Because you're thinking on Ray. I guess so. Yeah, I love it.

Yes, Bonjour Smith. Bonjour Smith. Bonjour Smith. I prefer to pause and then put a very Australian accent on Smith. Bonjour Smith. That makes me happy. But whatever works for you. Have you guys ever had the Newcastle brand out from Newcastle? No, I said, is this you for me? Someone's gone on it. Is that a sick move? The rusty trombone.

No, it's a- You think it's tough? No, it's a, yeah. So one of the first B's, international B's I would have ever had, it's really, really not, I haven't had in a long time, but I used to love it. I don't say it around as much as you used to,

but a delicious B. And I would also love to think. Where did that come from? And what- He's from you castle But just a question have you ever tried Chinese fried rice because it is quite good And I'd also love to think from San Antonio in Texas. Oh, yeah, the first country Colin with a K, Colin Spenrath. Oh, Spenrath.

Bucco. Bucco Spenrath. Bucco Spenrath. Oh, that is really good. That's the first one I felt I can feel like I really can get behind. My God, you nailed that. Do you think that maybe it's going could be the start of a new name? Yeah, or again, or I can call him

might so gone around as a bucko. He demands people calling bucko. He sends out like a, he puts it on Facebook, he doesn't have everyone. I just wanted to address you all and let you know that I'm now changing my name to bucko. One of our girl in primary school did that. We were called to a Katie and then one day she came

into school and she was like, I'd really prefer it if you referred to me as Catherine And then this isn't grade one Oh, I forgot to say what ages this Yeah, because that sounds fun. You should be allowed to be called by your name, but yeah, grade one is a bowl It's so funny and guess what what happened? We then called her Katie and there's Primary in the playground and she chased us around angrily. It was very fun. Oh, I love it. Anyway, I hope you will.

Bratal. I love it too. I love Catherine. I love that story of bullying in early primary school. Thank you. So there's a lot about Jess and the person she really is deep down. You're a real bucko. A big old bully.

So thanks to all the legends that support us at Patreon. Makes a big difference to our lives and you get some cool stuff so maybe we make a difference to you. And you know we're over 70% to our goal to America now? It's really gone up a lot this year. It's feeling like that maybe next year could be the year. It really does feel like it's possible which is... We could come to places like San Antonio, probably not specifically there, but somewhere in

Texas. Yeah. If we go to the USA, we have to go to some sort of sports game. I've decided that. Yes. If I'm using the correct terminal. LAUGHTER Some sort of sports game.

Let's go. The list of things in places we've got to say and do is going to be huge. I mean, it might be a nine month tour like a... Or driving around on a... Gary's high up on the list. Well, we're going to Gary. Buck-I-state universities, probably in high as probably something we've got to get to.

I've always wanted to see Matt Rushmore. Low on the list, unfortunately. No pubs around there. Matt's not interested. No, yeah, that'd be great I wouldn't even know where that is that in the Grand Canyon. I think it's in South Dakota Isn't that in the Grand Canyon? Yes It's in South Dakota and I don't know how many South Dakota isn't like New York Disneyland and the rest is a Grand Canyon. Yeah, it's all in the canyon. That's my understanding. I think part of New York's in the canyon.

Surely! Tiffin' in the hole! Man hatins up and statin' all is in the Grand Canyon. In the Grand Canyon. Yeah. God, I don't know. Come on, Dave. Have any of you ever seen that famous statue they've got of Liberty?

In the Grand Canyon. Yeah, it's in the canyon. Ah, I feel like a fool. Yeah. Yeah, you look like We gotta go now. Yeah, I've got to go learn about geography apparently. We're gonna look up this Grand Canyon It sounds grand Canyon all right, we got to go thanks again for listening to the show We'll be back next week with another topic from the hat, keep the suggestions coming, but until then,

I'll say thank you and goodbye. Bye. Bye. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want, it's up to you. This episode is brought to you by Progressive.

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