Do Go On - 136 - Che Guevara

Episode Date: May 30, 2018

He's one of the most iconic people of the twentieth century, but also one of the most divisive. A doctor, solider, leader, writer and revolutionary. Was Ernesto 'Che' Guevara a freedom fighter, or a callous murderer? Dave reports on his amazing life, and we try to find out.Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPodCheck out our brand new website! (including MERCH!) : dogoonpod.comSubmit a topic idea directly to the hat: https://dogoonpod.com/submit-a-topic/Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] AND FURTHER READINGhttp://totallyhistory.com/che-guevara/https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1014_041014_motorcycle_diaries_2.htmlhttps://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/08/che-guevaras-brother-ernesto-must-be-pulled-from-his-pedestalhttps://www.britannica.com/biography/Che-Guevarahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#International_diplomacyhttps://www.biography.com/people/che-guevara-9322774https://www.history.com/topics/che-guevara

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates.

And welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnocky and I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hello, I'm Matt Stewart. Hi, Matt. I'm Matt Stewart. Oh, no. No. What's happening? There's two Matt Stewart's sitcom.

Hang on. I'm also Matt Stewart. It's three Matt Stewart's. What are we in paradise? Oh my God. Three mats. Yuck. I mean three out of three, if we walk out of that door, maybe everyone out there's Matt Stewart's as well.

I couldn't handle that at all. It'd be too good. Maybe there is such a thing as too much of a good Matt Stewart. Hello to all our Matt Stewart listeners out there. Yeah, hello. Great to be back in the studio for another week, guys. You're good? Real good.

I'm fine. Okay. I don't want to talk about it. All right. Well, I was going to ask, so glad you flag that. Yeah, great. Thank you for obeying my wishes. All right, Matt, you good?

I'm good. I cannot wait for this week's question to get us on topic. So you don't want to talk about it either, okay. No, I want to talk about it. No, I was asking how I am? Only once we hear the question. I do want to talk about it and I'm good. Okay.

You would like to get straight into the topic. Oh, yeah, big time. It's a juicy one. Ooh, okay, Apple. Oh, not that kind of juicy. Orange. Or chicken. Oh.

Is that juicy? I don't know. Juice, okay, it's not that kind of juice. So it's the type, it's the brand where people used to have juicy written across their back sides and their tracksuit pants. Oh, I still think in parts of the world they have that. Fuck yeah. Wow. Fashion capital of the world, Milan.

Do they have, is that what we're talking about? Oh, yeah, we're talking about Milan. Woohoo. I got it in one. Do you want a question? And we'll still. Dave. I mean, it will narrow the parameters slightly.

I just want to pull you up on something. It's actually called Milano. I'm so sorry. Culture team right here. Yeah, you are the culture vultures and I am, well, just the Philistine and I'm not fine. We call you Yuck boy. Yeah. Okay, yes.

Bin Belonger. The one who belongs in the bin. Bin boy. I'm changing his nickname in our group chat right now. So the one that belongs in the bin. Or bin boy. Bin belonger. No, I like the boy that belongs in the bin.

Ben. Okay. And I got a hairy chinny, chin. Ask the question. Okay, all right. My question is, for both of you. Oh. Which revolutionary and cultural icon was one of times most important people of the 20th century.

Share. Oh, that's good. All right. Do you believe? Yes. I didn't before that song, but now I did. Yeah. I'm trying to think of anyone at all.

What about John Paul? Courteer. John. Claude Van Dam. Do you mean John Paul? Gautier. Gortier. Yeah.

I went to the NGV one time and there was some sort of a thing on. That's about, that's, I was trying to be cultured. They had a lot of his clothes there. He was a guy with a lot of clothes. Yeah. What's his name? John Claude Van Dam. John Claude Van Dam.

Vanity Dam. The muscles from Brussels. Yes. John Claude Fancy Man. That's right. Do you guys legit Wait can you say it again I was I don't know if I was really paying attention

As much as I could have been Let me repeat Which revolutionary and cultural icon Was one of times 100 Most important people of the 20th century Revolutionary and cultural icon Che Guevera It is Che Guevara

The only revolutionary I know There you go He was actually listed listed under, so basically time voted for the 20, so 100 most influential people of the 20th century and he was, and they broke him into categories, he was listed under heroes and icons.

They broke him into categories. Yeah, no. Wow. He was straight to balls. His own category. Shea balls. Shea balls, son. Shea balls. Thought of a Che loange. Shay longs. But now was Sheaubal.

No, he was listed under heroes and icons, but not leaders and revolutionaries. I know, absolutely. nothing about this person. I've got a book called Shea and it sits on my shelf very dusty. Great. So it's a... With the dust is all the dust of being read.

Did you buy the book or did someone buy it for you? Won it at a trivia night, which was a fundraiser for someone who worked at the hospital. Yep. Were you the individual winner or did your team get that and they said Matt's going to read this? I can't remember, but bloody what hell was a proud moment. The reason I asked is because I went over to a friend's house last night, and on her bookcase, I had given her a little book for Christmas. It's just like a little photography book of dogs.

And she had that on her bookcase, but like out in front of all the other books, like it was on display. And I couldn't help it feel that that had been pulled out because I was coming over, you know? Oh, and it was the one you'd given her. Yeah, the book I gave her was on display, like in front of all the other books. So all the other books are like, you know, stacked up in a line and this one's out on display in front of them. Your mind is such a sad place. Maybe you just bought a very nice gift and it was appreciated.

Absolutely not, Jess. She has tried to pull one over you. Or she cares so much about you that she wanted you to know that she appreciated the gift. Either way. Friendship terminated. Beautiful little example of friendship there. Well, let me ask you a question, Matt. If the trivia host from that trivia night you won was to come to your house,

would you dust off that Shea book and put it on display? I think you would. I'd say, excuse me, who are you? Why are you at my house? Familiar? I can't quite place you. I remember that night the Saints lost to the cats. That was what I was mainly doing,

was looking at my phone. And you still managed to win a book. Yeah, look, I'm very good at trivia. You shouldn't have been looking at your phone during trivia. What are you? Some kind of fucking... Only in the brakes. Sure, mate.

I don't know how to triv. Anyway, speaking of Triv is to live. Speaking of Triv, Let's learn some now This is our second report in a row on a person from the 100 most influential people Marilyn Monroe was also on the list Who suggested this topic?

Was she higher up? Well she was not listed as a leader or revolutionary but why not? Yeah there you go. Just like Chey. So was she higher up? You sort of answered the question with something that wasn't an answer. There was no rankings.

Actually no there was. Elwood Einstein was number one. Most influential person was a lot of century. He is. a slippery character Dave. Isn't he? Cannot get a hold of him. Slibering right through my fingers. Oh, I nearly had him.

It's like a little grape. This bin boy is covered in bin juice. All right. Oh, that is juicy. This topic was suggested, I told you, juice, we've come back to it. Suggested by Patrick Zerner from Adelaide. Patrick Zerner loves to Lerner, as we always say.

And also suggested by Michael Gledson. Michael Gledson. Good on you, petty medicine. Go to Bedson. Petty Medson. What Dave said made some sense in a way, but mine was more esoteric. Esoteric? Mm-hmm.

No further question. Che was born under the name Ernesto Guevara. Fuck yes. Rosario Argentina on June the 14th, 1928. So not long after this episode released, we are celebrating, it would be celebrating his 90th birthday. Oh, cool. He was the oldest of five children of an upper middle class family. Five is an okay number of children.

That's just under the question. One more and we asked the question. And it's like, come on. You can't remember all their names at that stage, surely. I can remember five names, easy. That's the first. What else? Easy, squeezy, lemon, piecy.

Banana. Banana. Great, the odd one out. Banana Perkins. Which one are you? That's the dock of the 12. Dwarfs. I don't recognize you so I'm going to assume you're banana.

You must be banana. Yes, Mom. That's right. I'm bananas. That's the party kid. Banana is a party dude. So Chey or Ernesto's mother, Celia, came from a very well-off family from Bonisares. She was very intelligent.

She was very intelligent. More intelligent than that sentence leads me to sell you. She was very intelligent. And as an early feminist, she was one of the first. of the first women in Argentina to wear trousers, smoke and drive a car. Oh, fuck yeah. Celia's great. What about us?

Chase Farah. I've done two of those things, so I don't know what the big deal is. You've done the big two. He's never worn trousers, is what he say. But you have smoked whilst driving a car. Sure have. And being the first woman to do so in Argentina. Or whatever country you mentioned.

She was only one of the first. You were the first. Yes. Ernesto Jr.'s father was also called Ernesto. He too had links to a very wealthy family, including being the grandson of one of South America's richest men. However, somewhere along the way, the family had lost most of their fortune. Ernesto Sr. was six years older than Celia. They fell in love and quickly married, and six months later, little Ernesto Jr. was born. Oh, so he was premature, obviously. Yes, three months

premature, exactly. Yeah, wow. Dating back from the wedding night. Oh, of course. They lived a little chuckle to yourself there. Hey, someone's got to enjoy my company. May as well be me. As I always say. I'm going to change my nickname to lonely girl. Finn boy, lonely girl and the beardy one. You guys are really got to get to know me.

We still don't know anything about it. I don't know the one with beard and glasses, I guess. You know as much about you as someone who's just met you? Oh, Matt, you know him. He's always got that beard on his face. Classic, Matt. Matt, maybe you need to let us in. Let bin boy in.

Let lonely girl near. No, I don't, because then you'll lose what makes her special. Yeah, that's my thing. Well, the Guevarez lived a bohemian life, and Che was raised with leftist leanings. His father often hosted veterans from the Republic side of the Spanish Civil War in their home, and Che developed an affinity for the.

the poor. He was very well read and was interested in poetry from a young age. Chase's childhood, however, was marred by chronic asthma, that at times was so bad his family thought he might die from it. The family even moved to the mountain town of Alta Gracia, hoping that the mountaineer would help the young man's asthma. The plan worked and he was able to regain his health and was an active student and enjoyed playing rugby and swimming. Oh, wow, that's cool. Do you mean mountaineer? There was a mountaineer who helped him with his breathing. Yeah, a lot of mouth to mouth.

But it worked. It worked. You can't argue with results. You can't. I won't. And that Mountaineer's name was Mr. Ventilin. A little known fact about Mr. Ventilin is something he went on to invent penicillin. Oh, he.

And Becotide. He invented. Penicillin. He invented it. Yes, he did. Incredible. God, you are good. I thought that was a genuine fucker.

Oh no. That was just a bad punt. I saw that glint in your eye and I was like, fuck, he is good, isn't he? That's actually where the word inventolin comes from. Dave's saying it just then. I just coined it. I'm a coiner. I'm a coiner.

In his late teens, Che went to look after his grandmother in Bonisaris. After her death, he enrolled in medical school at the University of Bonasaris, having been inspired to want to help others after his own struggles with us. So he wants to be a doctor? A noble effort. To want to be something good. I'd love to be something good. Isn't that? I'd love to want to be something good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be good, wouldn't it? So Chey wants to be a doctor, but he also wants to travel and explore the world. So twice he took breaks from medical school to do so. His first trip was in 1950 when he traveled solo through a rural Argentina on a bicycle that had a small engine attached. Oh. It's cheating. Yeah.

Is that a motorbike? It's like a shit motorbike. I'd probably have just said shit motorbike. Yeah, we would have known exactly what you meant. You would have known. We saw a guy as like a 75-year-old man on a Segway today. My dad, who's just had a hip replacement and he's on crutches, was just staring at this guy in awe.

He was so excited. And jealousy. He's like, look at that. Look at that. Look at that. Annie! Andy! Look at that.

That does sound great. I reckon, and I can't fully explain why, but I remember, 10 years ago or something, I was in a car at a traffic light and across the, you know, crossing across it was like a hardcore Jewish dude with the full getter. And he would have been about 65 on a razor scooter. And it was just like, I just felt so happy. And I don't know how to explain that. Yeah.

It's a great feeling, isn't it? Yeah. It's like unlikely animal friendships. It's that same thing. Like, what? Right. It's unexpected, but it's so glorious. Yeah.

Totally. And there was joy, you know, when, like, I think joy is contagious. He was clearly a happy man. Yeah, because he was on a razor scooter. The wind was like, his hair was flowing back. Curls? Yeah, the curls, yeah. Oh, amazing.

And his beard. Getting a great image because he's smiling in my mind. Yeah, I'm imagining it too. He had a big grin on. Yeah. Flowing sort of garb. Also, could I please use the company credit card? to buy three razor scooters.

Approved. Yes. Two out of three, sorry, Matt. As if you were going to say no. No, look. I'll get you your favorite colours. I'm very fiscally responsible. Mainly because I like that phrase.

I'm just trying to have some fun. Dad. Well, maybe if you behave, we can have some fun. When have I not behaved? Name of time. Name of time I haven't behaved. Yeah. can't name one because I always behave.

That time you threw Skittles at the crowd. They loved it. Next. I was sharing. You always told me to share. Violently. Violently. Enthusiasmately.

I would argue. We had to apologise. I apologize and fill out an incident report for the venue. Yeah, we all got Skittles. Yeah. It was a good day. Skittles. Anyway, Che decided the best way to get to know and to understand a country was by visiting

hospitals and meeting the patients that they housed. It wasn't interested. interested in tourist sites, but he wanted to see the plight of the people. The next year he took another break from his studies in 1951, then aged 23, and he went on a nine-month journey that would really shape his view of the world. Che and his friend Alberto Granado, who was studying biochemistry, embarked on a motorcycle journey of South America. That's a brilliant name. The motorcycle they were traveling on was called South America. It is good, it's a beautiful, isn't it?

Hmm. The motorbike, this time it is a motorbike. Not a shit. Thank you, yes. Well, I say that. It was called La Port Rosa, the Powerful. Oh, that sounds good. It was anything but and gave him a lot of trouble early on and eventually broke down completely.

So the two of them on one motorbike? Yeah, and now they have no motorbike. Oh, dear. Sounds like a fun movie. Yeah. Buddy cop movie. Yeah. Without the cop.

But at first they don't get along. Yeah. Right? Because one of them has to get one from one side of South America to the other. Yep. But he doesn't want to go. He doesn't want to go. But then they have to be on one motorbike.

Oh, brother. And if they don't get by 9 a.m. on May 1st, they're both going to juvenile hall. Yeah. And then, about halfway through, they start to respect one another. Yeah, they see that each other's traits are actually quite good. Yeah, maybe they have a little more in common than they thought.

The straight man, played by Steve Martin in this case, and the wild man played by Che Guevara. slash John Candy. You're thinking planes transit. Planes. Yeah, okay. Well, they needed to use other means of transport.

That is correct, Matt, because they lost their bike. They mainly hitchhiked. They continued on their journey without a bike. At one point, they introduced themselves as internationally renowned leprosy experts at a local newspaper, which wrote a glowing story about them. The travellers used the press clipping as a way to score meals and other favours with locals along the way.

Sneaky. Have a look at this little clip. I've got, before you say no to giving me free food. I tend to show people my show reel before any kind of interaction. To be honest, job interviews, restaurants. I mean, a job interview is not that inappropriate. Good point. Restaurants, I'd argue.

Yeah. What's the job? Meeting the parents. Show them a show reel. Yeah, no, the job is as an administrator. Here's a highlight reel of me meeting my former partner's parents. That's Diane. She was sassy.

We shall catch up for brunch. Wait, I'm bad it says I'm really funny. It gets me every time. I did not get along with Jeremy. That's Mark. He's the one who got away. Oh, God. I'm stuck with yours.

That's how it goes. John Candy and Steve Martin also got in trouble. Just trying to make it relatable for Matthew. Nice. While stopping in the town of Laotaro to repair the motorcycle after an accident, they were invited to a dance. Oh, that doesn't sound like trouble at all. The evening ended badly.

Oh, dear. They couldn't do the shuffle. Couldn't do the dance. Couldn't do the Cincinnati sit and squeal. They could not. And also Guevara tried to seduce a married woman. The two men were chased out of town by an angry mob. Wow.

That feels like that never really happens in real life. Yeah. I'm just given a montage, Chase learning and growing. It feels like a story that they would have laughed about later. Yes. Not funny at the time. No, certainly not Steve Martin would not have been happy.

But later, or boy, would they have laughed about that one, hands around each other, clutching their stomachs laughing so hard. You know? I know. Like we used to do. Key montage.

Slow-motion montage about the three of us laughing. Yep. That's good, shop. That's going in. That's Diane. All in all, the pair traveled over 8,000 kilometres through many South American countries. But it wasn't all just fun montage. Che was shocked by the poverty that he encountered.

He was appalled at the conditions of miners working in a Chilean mine, and meeting a homeless communist couple left an impression on him, where they didn't even have a blanket to share between them. In Peru, the two men went to see Hugo Pese, a leading leprosy researcher and a Marxist. who engaged Che with political discussions that he later acknowledged as formative on his outlook. The travelling pair spent a few weeks volunteering at a leper colony on the Amazon, and on his 24th birthday with the doctors and nurses as his audience, Givara gave his first political speech, advocating for a unified Latin America.

Any of you remember what you were doing in your 24th birthday? I was at the Belgian Beer Garden on St. Kilda Road. I don't think it's there anymore. No, it's not. But it was great. Cut my foot was wearing thongs. Cut my foot bled a lot. Okay.

So not making political speeches as well. It's getting out there. Well, no, I use that as an analogy. My foot is like the working people. And I'm sick and tired of this shot of glass, i.e. The man. Business. Cutting into our livelihoods back to my foot again.

Wow. My foot's versatile. Are you lecturing the ambulance people that are looking at? I've lost a lot of blood. And drunk many liters of beer. Yeah, my blood was very thin. It really, there's a photo somewhere and it's a lot of blood. I've lost three letters of blood, but I've gained five liters of beer.

That should be fine, right, officer? Chey documented his thoughts and experiences with a daily diary that would later be published in 1995 as a book called The Motorcycle Diaries. So many successful and influential people have kept diaries. I did for a period of two years and I wish I'd kept it up. Yeah. Because now you can go back and you can ask me what was I doing on February 11th, 2011. I can tell you exactly.

Well, I'm not going to keep it like every day because I do a lot of boring shit too. Sometimes I just like go to work and go home. It is a good habit. Because what if you do become the superstar that we all know, you will, Jess Perkins? And one day they'll be like, can you write that tell a little book? And they'll ask you what you were doing. Yeah. On February 11th.

21st. So in case you write a book one day, Jess, waste your time writing in a diary. Come on, Dave, is that what you're suggesting? Just keep a calendar. You got a Google calendar. I've got a Google Calendar. You changed my life with that Google Calendar. It used to be a strict, colour-coordinated diary kind of girl.

Now I'm a strict colour-coordinated Google Calendar kind of gal. I can access that anywhere. Yes. In the cloud, Dave. Think about it. So good. Still yet to fully transition to the cloud. The Motorcycle Diaries was also made into a...

a film. Plans Trans an automobile. No, it was actually made into a film. Che traveled alone to Miami. This is still on the journey before flying home to his family, now a changed man. He formed the view that the only way for the masses to restore equality and break free from their oppression that in many cases still stemmed from colonialism was through armed revolution. He wrote this in his diary. I will be on the side of the people. I will take to the barricades and the trenches, screaming as one possessed, will stain my weapons with blood and mad with rage will cut the throat of any vanquished foe I encounter. Jeez.

So this journey has really changed him. That sounds like, you know, like old school Roman stuff or something. Yeah. I've just been listening to a little podcast about it. Oh, right. The cutting the throats of the vanquished, is that what he said? Yeah. Vivid.

Vivid imagery. He completed his medical studies in 1953 and then hit the road again, traveling through Central America, eventually settling for a time in Guatemala, where President Jacobo Arbenz was in charge of a progressive regime that was attempting to bring about a social revolution. President Arbenz was trying to implement radical land reforms and give land back to the poorer people that lived in his country. It was at this time that Guevara got the nickname Che.

What does Che mean? In Argentina where Che is from, as well as a couple other Latin American countries, Che is used as colloquially or slang and can take the form of friend. A bit like mate or bro. Right. Oh, great. But it can also, this is where it gets complicated. It can also be used in place of hay or at the end of this sentence.

Like in Canada when they say, A. Or New Zealand. Che at the end. So it could be like mate or you can just slip it in. And Gavarro used the phrase a lot. And because this really stood out in Guatemala, friends started to call him Che and it's stuck. Oh, I love it.

Isn't that a cool nickname story? That's a chronic name story. And it's Che, not Shea, obviously. So I think I've always said Shea. Che is more fun. Do you reckon? Yeah, Che. Guevara is popularly known.

How about have a crack at this? Simply as L. Chee, the Chee, in many Latin American countries. I think they don't just call him Chee because they use that for word. So Chee's like bro or mate. So it'd be like calling you Bro Warnocky, which is fun. Mate Warnocky. Yeah. Matey Perkins.

Mate Perkins. Mate Perkins? Mate Stewart. That's efficient. I only need to change one letter. Sometimes when I type your name, it comes out as mate, and I'm like, well, they're both good. It's all true. Yeah.

I say, thanks Matt or thanks mate, and it's still... Can't go wrong. You still get it. I still get it. Yeah. This guy gets it. Me. I'm this guy.

It was also in Guatemala that Shea met Hilda Gadia Acosta. a Peruvian woman who would go on to become his first wife. We've got an Acosta listener, Miguel Acosta, I think. It's a good name. It's a great name. Better than Hilda. Hilda is a strong name. I think that mainly called.

She's actually mainly referred to as Gadia. All the needs are great. She was an economist who was well connected politically as a member of the left-leaning American Popular Revolutionary Alliance. Putting popular in an actual smart politically. It is. Try to argue with that. No, we're popular. No, you know, we don't like him.

Look at the name. Yeah, it's in the name, man. Just vote for us. You know you want to. We're popular. Don't you want to vote however else vote? Yeah. Well, we're neither way.

We're popular. The Guatemalan leader Arbens, who was talking about before, trying to implement these land reforms, was overthrown in a coup supported by the CIA. A coup d'etatah? A coup d'etatah. The CIA actually is fucking around a lot in Central and South America and this time in history.

Sort of choosing which leaders to back and who they don't want to, you know, choosing regimes and stuff. It's all a bit dodgy. And Che began to think that the US would always oppose any left-wing government. This became the cornerstone of his plans to bring about socialism by means of a worldwide revolution. It was in Guatemala that Guevara became a dedicated Marxist. So there's all this stuff that's happening in his life and he's sort of going more and more left, becoming more and more radicalized

with all the... Like... Oh yeah. Shackas? Shucka Lackin. Still trying to make that happen. Because you said radicool wrong. He said it like radical.

Yeah. What a square. Such a square peg, Dave. Trying to fit into my round hole. Whoa. I'm going nowhere near your round hole. Yeah, it's because you're a square peg. I'm looking for a square hole.

He does not get it. Tweet me. Out Dave Wonke. if you have a square hole. Oh dear. Don't tweet him, please. Che left Guatemala and headed to Mexico, where he met and became close friends with Raul Castro.

Yes, good name. Who had been, uh, it's a great name. Raul. Raul. Raul. Who had been closely involved in the 1953 rebellion in Cuba. So now, I have to give you a bit of background here as to what was happening in Cuba at the time because it was a very important part of the story.

Dave. Just a little recap, Jess. Get on board. I don't get on board. I don't get. Geography. Can you do it in a montage? Yes.

Cue music. Music from the holiday pastime had probably offensive. Okay. Cuba had become independent from the US. You know where Cuba is. Sure. It's a largest island in the Caribbean. Central America.

That's right. Just south of Florida. And the Florida Keys. Yeah, I've seen McAil's Navy. There's a remake with Tom Arnold. Oh, thanks for that reference that we all go to. So basically... I'm pretty sure that's a sentence, Cuba.

At least partly. Cuba had become independent from the US in 1902, and after that followed many decades of instability rocked by revolts and coups. Two-day coup d'etat. And also many datas. A man named Fulgencio Batista. Yes.

Yes. It's a good name. Fulgencio Batista. had served earlier as Cuban president in the 1940s, and in 1952, he became president for a second time through a military coup. Although respected in his first term as El Presente, he cancelled the 1952 elections and began to rule as a dictator. Cuba had high unemployment for locals, and Batista formed deals with American companies that began to dominate and exploit the Cuban economy. Most of the highly profitable sugar industry was in US hands, and foreigners owned 70%

of the country's arable land. Shit. Arribal land. You're thinking of arreolas. Which I'd forget what they are. They're the nipple bits? Yeah, the round bit. Patista also teamed up with the American mafia

who ran casinos and the illicit drug trade. So the US government armed and politically supported this Patista dictatorship because it was good for the US economy. So pretty much him and the political elites are leaving the high life, but stuff for Cubans, the general population is not good. Not good. So Fidel Castro was a young outspoken Cuban lawyer in the 1950s.

He tried to challenge Batista through the courts but got nowhere because the dictator just sort of got away with everything. And he came to the conclusion, this is Fidel. The revolution was the Cuban people's only answer. So Fidel and his brother, Rahul, tried to rebel with a group called the Movement, but they were decisively crushed by Batista and both Castro brothers were imprisoned. At his trial, Fidel Castro gave a four hours. a patriotic speech in his defense that has since gone on to be quite famous. He ended with the words,

condemn me, it does not matter. History will absolve me. He's a real good speaker. A real good speaker. Oh yeah. He's real good, but... He's real good. He was sentenced to 15 years jail for the revolution,

so he's speaking didn't do that well. But under political pressure, Batista had to free him in 1955, which, looking back, is a bad choice for Batista, because Fidel and Raoul Castro fled Cuba for Mexico, where they met Che, able to regroup and rekindle their dreams of revolution. So that's the background here. Is this what the Tracy Chapman song is about?

Baby got it fast car. Drive away and we'll drive you're far. Is that the song you mean? Sure. What was the Tracy Chapman song you meant? If you want to be there, and I'll turn them around. So you're talking about revolution.

But okay. So every time we said revolution, It's in my head. Don't you know talking about a revolution sounds like a whisper. During a long conversation with Fidel in the first night of their meeting, Guevara concluded that the Cuban's cause was the one for which he had been searching. And before daybreak, he had signed up as a member of the July 26th movement,

which is what they were calling themselves, named after an attack on Santiago de Cuba army barracks on July 26, 1953. Santiago, Wales. Vigina. Gravera was recruited as the group's medic, although he did take part in military training, in particular, guerrilla warfare. The movement knew that they would be outnumbered,

so they were trained in hitting the enemy and then retreating into the wilderness. Despite essentially signing up to Just Be the group's doctor, Gavera was actually considered by their instructor, General Bayo, as his prized student and the best gorilla of them all. Oh, that's cool. I love gorillas.

So he was bad. Gorillas. I love them. Just to rephrase the thing I said. Okay. Guevira married Gardia, or whatever I was calling it before in Mexico, on September 1955, before embarking on his plan to assist in the liberation of Cuba. It's time for revolution! Yes!

Fidel Castro led a team of 82 men, including Guevara, from Mexico, back to Cuba. The men traveled aboard the Grandma, an old, It sounds like grandma, I know, it's like grandma without the D. You said the same word twice. Grandma. I know it sounds like grandma. Grandmar. Oh, sorry.

Well, it basically is, it's an old leaky cabin cruiser. The boat was... It basically is a grandma. It's old and leaky. I don't want to speak for your grandma. Very accommodating. Makes great cookies. It sends me $100 for my birthday.

What? You get $100? bucks? No. Look, I just pulled a figure out of the air. Really, it's in the thousands. He's trying to think of the smallest amount that someone might get in an envelope. I wanted to sound relatable to Matt, the working class man.

You've got to divide it a little more than that. I was pretty happy. If you got a $5 in an envelope. Oh, my God. But when you grow up, $5.000? That was a different time. 700 shillings. Yes.

I was converting it to the modern speak. It was, yeah, Thruppence. Grandma sent us a threuppance. Wow. And then what would you do with your threepence? I'd buy a bag of pigeon feed, go down to the square, sing a song. Why you see your song? I don't know.

What a child. It was in a very musical time. Is this your 24th birthday again? You cut your foot on a pigeon? Time's tough until our nanny came along and she really brought music and wonder in our lives. Thruppence a bag. Okay, I get it. Oh, I love it.

So the boat, so the grandma. It's a, The grandma. And I've seen this, by the way, I was inspired to do this story after I went to Cuba earlier in the year. And I let the Patreon people vote on, two possible people that I learned about in Cuba. And they picked Che.

But I'm going to, for the Patreon people, I will do the other person at a later date. Not if I get to it first. So ha! Well, I mean, they'll still be happy because they get to heed. talk about it so it's funny.

Ha ha! We're all winners here. The grandma, which I've seen the boat in Havana, it is a leaky old cabin cruiser and not the thing. You don't look at it and go, yeah, that's a revolutionary's boat. The boat was extremely overloaded and barely reached the shore

because they had 82 people on board. They landed in the Cuban province of Oriente on December 2nd, 1956, but were immediately detected by Patis's men, and the revolutionaries were almost instantly wiped out. Whoa. Many were killed in the fight or executed upon surrender or capture.

Whoa. During this initial bloody confrontation, Guevara laid down his medical supplies and picked up a box of ammunition dropped by a fleeing comrade. And with this, he had fully transitioned from medic to soldier. That's cool.

Very symbolic moment. Only 22 of the original 82 were able to find each other again and they fled into the mountains. Wow. So they got fucked up. Chase survived, as did both the Castro brothers, and once established in the mountains, the small band prepared for an extended guerrilla campaign.

So there's only 22 people left, but they're not giving up. Out of 82. And they still think they can overthrow a government with 22 people. That's amazing. That's smaller than like your average primary school classroom. You know? That's at least 30 little attackers. Imagine my grade three class trying to take on the Cuban government.

Oh, no way. Especially when two of the three classes got blown up. Oh, my God. That's crazy. It sounds like my shoulder it all over again. Oh, Matt. We turned back. Okay, Vera quickly proved himself to Castro and became one of his most trusted allies.

His intelligence, determination, dedication, and toughness made him extremely valuable to the cause, and he was quickly promoted through the revolutionary ranks. I mean, you kind of make up your own ranks, don't you? I mean, and also there's only 22. 22. All of a sudden, yeah. You don't want to be the lowest rank. Like a real loser.

I'm 21st in charge. Miguel, clean the fucking toilet. Yeah, but I... You get to boss around one dude. Yeah. Guevara was put in charge of a unit and insisted a unit, again, probably like six dudes, and insisted on discipline and the importance of the communist cause. He was also instrumental in teaching new recruits,

so they were getting new people coming and joining them because a lot of people hated the government. Right. So people were joining them. He taught them guerrilla tactics. He also established health clinics, a newspaper to disseminate information, and rebel radio, which broadcast news to the Cuban people

with statements from the 26th of July movement. So that's how they recruited people. They would talk about how. Batista is fucking you royal. You should come and join us and people were doing that. He was promoted to commander of a second army column, effectively now second in command. It was as second in command that he began to show his ruthless side.

As a disciplinarian, he was very harsh and sometimes had defectors shot. He was personally responsible for a number of summary executions of people accused of being either spies or defectors. How do you picture a summary execution, I think, like Bahamas, a banana lounge, poisoned mahito. What a way to go, huh? Mm-hmm. What a way to go.

The first person he personally executed was Uttimio Guera, who was not shot with a majito. Oh. Guera was an eye. A pinocalata then. Yeah, what do you got? My second favorite choice. I know, I know you love a pita collata.

Oh, gosh. You're such a... You're such a basic bitch. No, it's white rum and pineapple, yeah. I'm such a basic. I love them. That's okay. You're allowed.

I'm not ashamed. I'm proudly ordered one in the bar if I can afford it. If grandma sent me $200, I do you? So, Guera was an army guard who admitted to giving away the rebels position in exchange for money, so he was a trader. After his admission, Guera asked that they, quote, end his life quickly. So Chase stepped forward and just... shot him in the head. Chey wrote this in his diary, still keeping a diary.

The situation was uncomfortable for the people and for utemio, so I ended the problem, giving him a shot with a 32 pistol in the right side of the brain, with exit orifice in the right temporal lobe. God, he's very detailed, isn't he? And also, that's a very cold way of writing about how you murdered someone. In a way, I kind of prefer Carl McCann's diary where it's like something terrible happened, but I don't want to talk about it. I almost prefer that.

Che is a little too clinical. Do you think Carla just killed a moose? Yeah, probably. It does show a side of him. He's very committed to the cause, but like ruthlessly, brutally so. Yeah. Like doctors talk about the human body as if it's not a human, right? That's just part of what he would have done as a doctor.

Sure. Very quite clinical. Yeah. Yeah. But the situation was uncomfortable and I ended up. the problem giving him a shot in the head. That's pretty... But he, ending the problem...

I'm not... I'm going to stop defending him. Meaning him being alive. Yeah, I thought... But didn't you say he asked him to do it quickly? Basically, well, I think he knew he was going to be executed because he... Because that feels like that's pretty... That's rather than going, all right, tomorrow you're going to be executed,

standing over there and having to have that whole last night. Hmm. Hmm. Hopefully a situation we never find ourselves in being traitors to a band of revolutionary communists. So Che was feared by his troops, but also deeply respected. You would take time to educate them and would entertain them with readings of poetry. So I just shot a man and here's some poetry. That's fun.

I just shot a man. Here's a picture of a fruit flan. That kind of poetry. You know, he just riffed. it. Topical. Yeah, real topical. He was happening. He wasn't even holding a fruit flannel.

It was actually a cheesecake. So that just showed you how creative he could be. Improv. Mm-hmm. Improv. He's got it. He's got the gift of the gab. Yeah.

He never blocks. Never blocks. But he does execute people. Thomas Elba, who fought under Guevara's command, later stated that Che was loved, in spite of being stern and demanding, we would have given our life for him. Oh. And many of them did. The guerrillas constantly battled with Batista's army

and by 1958 the dictator had had enough and ordered his army to wipe out Castro's forces for good. He sent a large part of his army into the jungle to combat the smaller guerrilla force. But this proved to be a disastrous military error as the rebels, having hidden out in the mountain for over two years, knew the terrain far better than the army and were able to easily defeat them.

At this point, many of Batista's men deserted him and joined Castro's now growing arms. me. So it was a real error. What should he have done? Probably held back and waited for them to try and face him. Just let him slowly grow. Well, I suppose.

He probably should have bombed them from above. Now you're talking like a military bastard. With love. Yeah, flyers. Hey guys, we can wake this out. Maybe you could have changed his ways and made the people love him and sort of snuff them out that way. Just be a good leader. Imagine.

Yeah, I mean, if you, that was, his first problem was being a piece of shit leader. Givera's unit was tasked with taking the strategically placed city of Santa Clara, which he was able to do so despite having only 300 troops and facing over 2,000. Wow. Many in the Cuban army did not do much to stop Che. They basically, a lot of them just sort of... Rolled over. Yeah, rolled over.

Again, because they don't respect their leader. On New Year's Day, 1959, Givera took the city and Batista, who's, the dictator immediately fled the island with an amassed personal fortune and he went to the Dominican Republic. So there you go. It had taken two years, but the revolution that had started with just 82 people

that was knocked down to just 22 people had actually been successful. Wow. It's crazy. That is crazy. It's crazy. After Castro's victorious troops entered Havana, the main city on January 8th, 1959,

Guevara served for several months at La Cabana Prison where he was tasked with rounding up officials from the Batista regime. Oh. So finding the old enemies. He was instrumental in organizing several hundred trials for these officials, of which the majority resulted in the guilty verdict,

and the men in question were executed. Oh, wow. It was estimated that between 156 and 550 people were executed on Guevara's extrajudicial orders during this time. That's a huge range. I know. There's a big range. Not great diary keeper now. It's not like between 55 and 60.

And you're like, yeah, fair enough. That's a huge range. I think people who don't like him say it's $5.50. People who do like him say it's only $156. Right. And they battle it out. Do we know what happened to the barrister? He eventually was accepted by the Portuguese dictator and lived out his days in Portugal.

Wow. So he got away with it. Got away with it. Back to this story, the global community was appalled at this brutality of these often. They were basically show trials. It's not like they went to. to court for 18 months. A lot of them had a court hearing in front of about five people for about 15 minutes.

And it was like, nah, you're guilty. Out the back shot. No, I'm not. Yeah, you are. Yeah, you are. No, I'm not. How do you plead? Not guilty.

Nah, you are. Come out the back. No reason. Come on. So Guevara was copying it internationally, but his unwavering belief in the rightness of the communist revolution left him unmoved. It should be noted that these harsh punishments were widely supported by the Cuban public who the Patista regime had,

oppressed, tortured and murdered for many years, but does that ever justify execution without a proper trial? I don't think so. No. No. So, Gavara is a hero to many people, and as you'll continue to hear, but to others, he is a villain. Okay, great, because at the start of this, all that I knew the name, but that's about it.

I actually really didn't know anything. And I was going to ask, is he a goody or a baddie? because I feel like in some films or whatever, any time I've heard him mentioned, he's either like portrayed as a villain or as like a real hero. And I was like, I don't know what we're about to discuss. I remember, did you come up across this at uni? They used to talk about all the time.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist and vice versa. Yeah, that's pretty accurate here. Yeah, wow. Okay, cool. So I'll continue on and maybe at the end you can say, and I imagine that at the end you'll be still unsure. Still confused.

Yeah. Because people are complex. Yeah. And he's very complex. Yeah. That's one of the most famous people of the last century. He's very complex. Yeah.

He became, this Guevara became a Cuban citizen and served as Ministry of Industry as well as president of the National Bank of Cuba. Oh. Because Fidel really trusted him, so he gave him these positions of power where Che famously demonstrated his disdain for capitalism

by signing currency simply Che. Oh, fuck. He's cool. You didn't really like money. Decision made. He's a rock star. He is a rock star revolutionary.

There was a fashion for a little while. Yeah. Probably not that long. I were t-shirts with his face on it, right? Yes. Che. Che. Yeah, absolutely.

I wonder what brought that about. I don't know. Guevara did a number of positive things during his time as Cuban leader. He established universal education. And still, when I went to Cuba, they told me that school is free, university is free. So you can become a dentist. and they'll pay for all year, the government will pay for everything.

That's great. Healthcare, free. So Gavar established universal education and is credited with helping to raise Cuban's literacy rate from as low as just 60%, up to 96%, some of the highest in the world. That's a big jump. Yeah. He also introduced land reforms and limited the size of all farms to 1,000 acres or 400 hectares.

Any holdings over these limits were expropriated by the government and either redistributed to peasants in 67 acre parcels. or held a state-run communes. Why 67-acre parcels? 270,000 square metres. Thank you. The law also stipulated that sugar plantations could no longer be owned by foreigners.

So he's reclaiming a lot of the land. Wow. Because that was owned by 70% of the land, yeah. 70% was owned by foreigners. So that's huge. And sugar is big money in Cuba. Yeah. He talked to the talk.

But it should also be noted that, unlike many revolutionaries, he walked the walk. If you compare him to Fidel Castro, who once in power, set up home and office in the penthouse of the Havana Hilton, Che, on the other hand, slept in his office often, and in support of the volunteer labor program that he organized, he spent his day off working in a sugar cane field. What?

Okay. Because a lot of people, once they get the power, they just do anything to cling on to that power, and that's when... Yeah. You know, all those African dictators I was talking about before, A lot of the time they start out as pretty good dudes and then they become crazy evil billionaires. Yeah, wow.

Yeah, not chay. Guevara also became the face of Cuba, traveling around the world and meeting leaders from 14 countries in Asia and North Africa. He later also traveled to the US, China, Russia, North Korea and Ireland. He had Irish roots. Ah. Long-distant, long, long, lost Irish roots.

I think what must happen is people just get, at first, they think they're doing the right thing, they've set something up, but they are afraid to give them. a way to share share it with others you know the responsibility yeah so they get protective this is a big this is what I'd be guessing and then they go no I don't trust you with the money

I'll handle all that and then eventually they just know lose their mind and yeah so you're going to something like that yeah for sure but I don't know what's weird if you're driving around like in a fleet of Bentley's and you're like yeah I'm still a revolution yeah it does seem weird to me like how do you how do you um reconcile that in your own mind it feels weird like If I've said to anyone that I'm doing something, I feel awful if I back out of it,

let alone going, hey, we're all in this together. We're all equal now. And then going, no, I never said that. I mean, we are all equal. I'm just like a higher level of equal. Yeah. I've just got 13 bentley's. What?

Nothing wrong with that. It's important for us together that I have many, many bentley. And it's also important that in the Constitution, it says that I have a direct line with God and whatever I say goes. Okay. Because I'm the only one. It can be trusted for us to all be equal.

But we're equal. Very bad. Guevara was instrumental in shifting the country's trade relations from the United States, who are obviously very close geographically, to the Soviet Union, who were also communists at the time. A result of this shift with the Soviet Union installing nuclear missiles on the island of Cuba only 100 miles from the US mainland. This led to the Cuban missile crisis,

which was a 13-day standoff between the US and the Soviets, and is hopefully the closest will ever. ever come to an all-in nuclear world war. But I'd like to save that mammoth topic for a future report. I was going to say, I know that phrase, the Cuban missile crisis, but I don't know. I now know 100% more than I did two minutes ago. So Chey had a lot to do with that. He basically invited the missiles onto Cuba.

Basically, in a really quick summary, America found out that Russia had nuclear missiles 100 miles away from them and freaked the fuck out. Yes. As you would. As you would. but we'll talk about that another time because it's a really massive subject. Che grew increasingly disheartened, however, as Cuba became a sort of client state of the Soviet Union. Increasingly disillusioned with the direction of the Cuban social experiment and its reliance on the Soviets,

Guevara began focusing his attention on fostering revolution elsewhere in the world. By this point, he'd realized that government work, even at a very high influential level, was not right for him. He was a natural revolutionary and wanted to dedicate his life. life to freeing other countries. So after April 1965, he dropped out of public life. His movements and whereabouts for the next two years remained secret.

Many speculated that he'd fallen out with Castro and possibly even been killed. So the world was for a couple of years wondering where he was. It was later learned that he'd traveled to what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Africa with other Cuban guerrilla fighters. He spent nine months there but was

unable to achieve anything. During this period, Guevara resigned his ministerial position in the Cuban government and renounced his Cuban citizenship. After the failure of his efforts in the Congo, he fled first to Tanzania and then to a safe house in a village near Prague, where he spent a lot of his time writing books. Wow. He's a fascinating man. Where's his wife? By this point, he's onto his second wife. Right.

And he does manage to have five children himself. All by himself. They are separated. a lot. What do you have this guy? What can't he do? He's pretty amazing. Did he ever write that down in his diary?

How he managed to have kids by himself? Because that would probably answer a lot of our questions. We could finally get rid of men. Bye, boys. Wait. Hang on, I think we get rid of women. No. Chase has just gone solo.

Okay, where are you going to grow it? Hmm? Hmm? That's what I thought. In Shea. Yeah. In Shay we grow. Yeah.

Always said that. Yeah, I've always said that. I've never understood until now. Finally, it makes sense. So many episodes later. Yeah, I've asked you and you just said, one day. And that's today. The prophesies.

The preposterophy? The prophecy is true. Oh, boy. Tom, I know save you here? Yes. In the autumn of 1966, Vera went to Bolivia, Incognita. He was beardless and bald. Oh, okay, well, you know.

He went there to create and lead a guerrilla group in the region of Santa Cruz after some initial combat successes. I'm imagining. You're trying to look at Matt. Yeah, just holding up her hands to cover up. Matt Beardous and Bald. I reckon you could go incognito, be it this and bald. Yeah, I wouldn't recognize you. Especially in Bolivia, where you are massive.

I wouldn't want to be seen with you. Bruehl. Yuck. That's all I have to do. What if I was beardless and bald? You're on your way. Yeah, balding. So he's in Santa Cruz.

He's hanging out with another guerrilla group. And after some initial combat success, Guevara and his guerrilla band found themselves constantly on the run from the Bolivia. Gorilla band. They were traveling like folk band. Yeah. We've got a double base. It's very hard to run from the Bolivian army when you've got a double base on your boat.

That's what, they were really missing fiddle Castro. He was a key. It's a key member. How much do you hate yourself for that? So much. That's very good. Fiddle Castro. Anna one, and a two, and a do.

So they're on the run from the Bolivian army. The group was almost annihilated by a special... Do you Bolivian? Oh, we're losing control of this. Ask me how much I hate myself. How much you hate you? So much. Do you hear Matt's pun and you're like, I can do that but worse?

Just give me a crack. You wouldn't Bolivian. You're wouldn't Bolivian. You know what? Hearing it back, it's very good. It's good. It's good, Matt. Come on.

It's good. I'm not done. I'm not done on that. They were almost annihilated by a special detachment of the Bolivian army, again aided by CIA advisors. So the US government do not like Chey By the time the soldiers began to close in on Guevara and his men only 20 or so remained

and were running out of essential food and supplies On October 7th Gavara stopped in a ravine to recuperate And peasants living in the area informed the Bolivian army That Che was there Oh What a pack of dogs Wild dogs A lot of them

What was in it for the peasants They were just believers in Oh I did not mean that that. Belivers. I think they might have, might think that, hey, we're not with them.

Don't burn our village down. Right, right. 1,800 troops closed in. Well, that's excessive. So they really think a lot of Guevara. They belivian in him. Fuck you. You're laughing every time.

You're laughing. It's getting better every time. That's why. So they, 1800 troops closed in it. and Guevara sustained a wound to his leg and several other rebels were killed. He escaped, but only for one more day. His leg riddled with bullets, his gun knocked out of his hand,

and Nesto Che Guevara surrendered. He said, do not shoot. I am Che Guevara and worth more to you alive than dead. He was taken to a one-room schoolhouse in the village. The US government wanted him alive to be interrogated, but Bolivian leaders decided that Guevero must be executed, fearing a public trial would only garner him more sympathy. Their official story was to be that he was killed in battle.

Felix Rodriguez, a Cuban-American CIA operative, posing as a Bolivian military officer, informed Che that he was going to be executed. This is from something that Rodriguez said in a 60 minutes interview years later. So take that what you will. It's going to make himself sound good. Yeah. I looked him straight in the face, and I just told him. He looked straight to me and said, it's better this way.

I should never have been captured alive. The two men shook hands. this is Rodriguez again. He embraced me. I embraced him. Of course you're going to say that. He told me you're a genius. You are a great guy. And you should do whatever you want. And I hope this isn't too frank, but you have the biggest penis I've ever seen in my life. My God, look at that thing. So anyway, that's what he said, I guess. That's what he said. He also demanded... I pulled my pants back up and I was on my way. He also demanded that I not admit this part of the story. I said, look, I'd be very embarrassed telling this 60-knows. He said,

Please tell them. I'm humble, I said. And he said, the people need to know. And this is where you'll flash my phone number on the screen, right? Flash, flash. Call now. He said, whatever you do, don't leave it out. But in the case, sorry, that's in the story.

In the room here, please leave it out. I cannot belivia. You two. I cannot believe you. This is going to be fun for weeks. This is a serious part of the story. Rodriguez left ordering a soldier, Sergeant Tehran, to shoot below their neck because that would fit the official story

that Guevara had died in combat. A few minutes later, Sergeant Tehran entered the hut to shoot him, whereupon Guevara reportedly stood up and spoke to Tehran and his last words were, I know you've come to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man. Awesome, last words. You're only going to kill a man.

I'm not a legend. Like, I'm just a person. He's the world famous Che Guevara, like the revolutionary hero. But I'm just a normal guy. You're not going to destroy the revolution by killing me. I'm just a man. I am just a man. Great line.

Great line. I think that about myself as well. Despite what a lot of people say, I am just a man. Who has said otherwise? Countless others. Countless. Countless. So few I cannot count them

Anyway, Tehran fired striking Guevara in the arms, legs and chest Oh Che was pronounced dead He was 39 years old First they took photos of his body Then cut off his hands and put them in formaldehyde So they could use his fingerprints to prove that he was dead So no one could deny that they'd kill the great Che Guevara

Oh my God He was buried in a mass grave And his body was lost for decades Oh, they found it Until in 1995 Whoa! A year-long search for his remains in Bolivia was ultimately successful. Chey's body was found in a grave with six others.

Basically, they found a man with both hands missing, and they were like, this could be him, and they matched the dental records, and it was him. Oh, wow. How many years later is this? Nearly 30 years later. So hands missing. Is this from skeletons? Basically skeletons.

From skeletons, yeah. So, you know, I imagine. The skeletons sort of hold together a bit. I would imagine a whole pile of bones. They just sort of still stick together. Djangly bones. Well, I mean, if you think about it... And I will.

It's not like... They're not buried in coffins. They're just put into a pit in the ground and then buried over. So there's no room for the bones to move. They stay still in the dirt. For 30 years, yeah. Like how they find fossils and stuff. Chey's body was found in a grave of six others, as I said.

And they were all laid to rest with military honours and especially built mausoleum in the Cuban city of Santa Clara. That's amazing that they found him. I know. It's crazy, isn't it? 30 years later. Wow. Now, Che had secretly visited Cuba in 1965 to see his second wife and wrote a letter to be given to his five children upon his death.

It ends with, above all, always be capable of feeling deeply any injustice committed against anyone, anywhere in the world. This is the most beautiful quality in a revolutionary. Yeah, I think it's hard to, like from the story you've told, it's hard to think of him too negatively. Did you go through sources that were more negative than others? Yeah, so it is very one side versus the other. So the legacy of Che Guevar is complicated and controversial to say the least. He is praised by many, including Nelson Mandela, who said he is, quote, an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom.

Others, however, seem as a fanatical murderer and a callous executioner. Their biggest problem is when he executed those people in that prison. Yes. often without a proper trial. Yeah, yeah, that's... So it could be up to 500 people executed on his order. That's no good. Now, he remains a national hero in Cuba

where his image can be seen all over the place, including on a three-pesso banknote. I drove past a football stadium, and there's just a big image of Che Guevara above that. There's a giant decal in Revolution Square in Havana, of his face. He's in street art everywhere, and school children still apparently

begin each morning by pledging we will be like Che. Oh, wow. But it should be noted that in Cuba, it was only April this year that 2018 that the country received its first non-Castro president in 40 years. And the new president, Miguel Diaz-Canel, was Rao's Castro's deputy before he took over. So of course they love Che because they're still in power, 40 years later, with no elections or anything. And he's part of their myth.

Yeah. So it serves them well to praise Che. Right. Che. That's amazing. Yeah, so there's a lot, lots of taking that. I just wanted to finish off by talking about the most iconic image of Che, probably the one that you imagine.

Yeah. Is he wearing a beret? So he's wearing a beret and he's staring off into the distance. It's very iconic. Yeah. And it's seen on all sorts of merchandise. You mentioned the T-shirts before, which is very ironic. Yeah.

He's so anti-capitalist. The Maryland Institute College of Art called the picture a symbol of the 20th century and the world's most famous photograph. And I don't know if this is just my internet, but when I googled World's Most Famous Photograph, he came up as number one. Really? Just on your internet?

Do you reckon it's... Or just on my search settings. I mean, because I had to spend a whole week. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Let me Google it now. World's... What about most... Type in Most famous photo.

That's what I typed in. Most famous photo. Type that phrase in. Just most famous photo. Go. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He comes up there.

He's up there. A famous photo. Isn't that crazy? But that is because... So is a photo by Sally Mann, a photographer I studied in Year 11 photography. Oh, there you go. I think potentially part of that is because it's captioned the most famous photograph. Because this one's come up a lot.

That's a very famous. Oh, the Afghani go with the eyes. Yeah. Beautiful eyes. Yeah. So yes, it's a very famous photo. I just wanted to quickly talk about it. It was captured on March 5th, 1960 in Havana, and Cuba.

by a local fashion photographer Alberto Corder. The image is called Gorilla Roe Heroico. Which I thought you would like, man. I love it. You love gorillas? I kind of, yeah, I love gorillas. No doubt about that. And I love that second word.

Can you say it again? Heroico. Oh, yeah, that's male. Guerrilo heroico. Che was 31 at the time it was taken. Oh, okay, cool. The photo of Che was not initially chosen for publication. So he was there to cover an event.

There'd just been a large explosion in the Havana harbor, and a lot of people had died. So a lot of famous people came together, and Corder was just taking photos of the different people. And basically, he took two shots, one that was portrait and one landscape, and then Che sort of moved out of position. But, you know, he really liked the photo, and he printed this is Corder and put a copy and hung it on his own wall. Oh. Then seven years later, a couple of months before Chey's death, a man named, Gian Giacomo

Feltrenelli What a name knocked on Corder's door and asked him for a good photo of Cé for a cultural think tank that was helping to export the ideology of the Cuban Revolution requesting that he

have a good picture of Che Carter pointed to his studio wall where the picture was still hanging and said, this is my best picture of Che when Che died just a few months later Gian Giacomo

began selling millions of copies of the image of Che as a poster Within six months of Che's assassination, Gianjiucoma sold over 2 million posters bearing this image, giving no credit or money to Corder. So a bit of a dog act, but he did help make the image famous.

Corder also expressed that he forgave him because through his actions, the image became internationally recognized. That's a great way to be able to think about things. A lot of people would have been bitter about that forever. I guess the reality is it would never have got out of Cuba without him. So Gian Giacomo, what you're calling?

Feltrenelli was mysteriously murdered not long afterwards. So whatevs? Okay. There you go. Oh dear. As a lifelong communist and supporter for the Cuban Revolution until his death, Alberto Corder claimed no payment for his picture when people started attributing it to him.

Right. So he didn't want any money for it, even though it could have made him a wealthy man. The only time he used his copyright was in the year 2000 when Smyrnoff used the picture of Che in a commercial. quarter did not want commercialisation of the image in relation to products he believed Guevara would not support, especially alcohol.

He sued Smyrnoff. The final result was an out-of-court settlement for $50,000 US dollars to Korda, which to a Cuban person is a lot of money, but he donated it to the Cuban healthcare system stating, if Che was still alive, he would have done the same. Wow. What a guy. That's amazing.

He died a few years ago. That's cool. Isn't that crazy? It's just some guy that you don't know. And it's one of the most famous photographs of all time. But that is my report on Che Guevara, a very divisive figure. Thank you. I still don't know how I feel about him.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Amazing ideals, but then like... In mass murder. Yeah, but then I also, like, can you... He believed that the only way to get change was via a violin. coup and oh if you believe that then okay that probably is the

best way but then it for change who knows violence for change and how do you think it ended up well then I know poor Cuban people they've been you know had the same group of leaders

for four decades that's insane that's cut off from the world in many many ways opened up a little bit more now yeah because I don't know heaps about that either but it doesn't feel like obviously the initial idea was not followed through. No, because in some ways it is a communist society

in that they all get a bit of food and a bit of water from the government and that they have their health care taken care of, but also they are still very poor as a whole. Right. You know, so it's difficult to say. Well, you are an expert on this, so I imagine you'll make it seem easy. Yeah, that's right, and I'll sum it up with these two words. Viva Revolution

Matt, your favorite two words I love those words Second only to free pints Yeah Pints has been Free Pines For too long Get him out

Pints, pints Pints Now that was great A very interesting Yeah I'm not entirely sure Where I sit But a very interesting story I don't think I have the stomach

To be a revolutionary God no I don't have the stomach For much to be honest Yeah I don't have the passion. I'm very lazy. I imagine it depends.

Sometimes it just has to happen. You probably don't need to revolt right now because you live in the affluent east of an affluent country. Che could have been a fairly wealthy doctor in Argentina if you wanted to. True. Because I also think about that. I'm like, oh, of course I don't want to revolt. Like everything is good for me.

But then Chee saw other people suffer. See, that's why I do respect him because he saw other people suffering and said, I want to do something about this. And did. But the way he often went about it can be. seen as quite callous. Yeah, exactly. Complex.

A very complex individual. But there you go. Maybe I've opened up some people's interest and maybe they'll get that dusty book off the shelf that they wanted a quiz and a few years back and read it for themselves. Do you some more learning. Yeah, all right.

Form an opinion. I reckon I'll do that. One day. Yeah. It's like every time we talk about a film, I'm like, I want to watch that and I never do. But I'm sure you'll find 50 books that say he's an absolute icon and 50 books that say he's an absolute murderer.

Right. You'll have to read 100 books and then decide. That's so many books. But thank you for listening to the show and thanks to everyone that suggests topics and stuff. You can do so by visiting our website. Do go on pod.com and submit an idea. The idea of Che Guevara has been sitting there for a long, long time,

in the original hat. Yes. It was. I've recently amalgamated the older new hats. Now one giant hat? One giant hat. Ten gallon hat. One giant ten gallon.

Yee! Peel, peop, pew. Is that what you do when you wear the hat? Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Me too. Hey, if you're also on our website, why not check out our merchandise, so we've just started selling through Red Bubble. You hit the tab shop and we'll take you to the store we can buy T-shirts, but also those same designs can be printed on hoodies, on pants, on mugs, on phone covers, all kinds of stuff.

Man, I can't believe I'm saying this. the Che Guevara episode. Whoops. Why our staff. Papa's got to make a living. Okay, all right. So, yeah, check that out. And you can also support the show through Patreon.

That's kind of a crowdfunding communist type thing. Patreon.com slash do you go on pod if you want to support the show. Chuck in a buck, $2.5.10 a month. And at various different levels, you can get rewards in exchange, including two bonus episodes every single month. Just those people here. A shout out, all kinds of stuff.

bonus content and we'd like to thank some people that support the show through Patreon right here right now what are you thinking how are we going to thank these six legends oh yeah Jess we gave you that

that that that duty let's uh well maybe we'll start thanking someone Dave and while Dave's saying the name maybe I have got an idea but alright great what do you

know how his nickname came from like a a salutation in a way yeah Maybe we could change their first names to a greeting. Oh, okay. I was thinking something similar. Okay, what were you thinking?

Well, I mean, he couldn't just let you have it. Could he, Jess? Never. Dave, what were you thinking? Well, I think we could change their name to a salutation. Let's go with that. Well, what are you going to say? It's probably better.

No, I think we could actually be the same because, you know, how Che can mean a salutation, but it can also just be, bro, mate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could change their name to something like that as well. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I mean. Okay, so we can mix it up a little. Clearly what she meant.

No, perfect. Yeah, great. Perfect, Matt. Do you hear that? Say it again. Perfect. Thank you. All I heard was perfect Matt. Yep, me too. I'll admit that.

I would like to thank. Another perfect Matt all the way from St Kilda here in Victoria. A great supporter of this show, Matthew Webb. Oh, Matthew Webb. Hi, Matthew Webb. We know you in real life. Yeah. He does tours in Melbourne.

If you're visiting Melbourne, you should go do his tour. An educational walking tour. Including, if you asked for it, I'm sure, great comedy spots around Melbourne. I think he might even include them anyway. Yeah. Matt's great. And he's a fantastic artist and we love you very much, Matt. If you are actually in Melbourne and you are interested, we can hook you up with this tour.

Just tweet us and we will pass on Matt's detail, something that we definitely recommend for any international interstate people. We want to learn a bit more about Melbourne. I've been on a few walking tours when I've been overseas. They're the best. You cover so much. The one in Berlin was one of the best things I've ever done. Oh, I did one in Derry in Ireland and it was amazing. Love them.

Love a walking tour. Me too. Love it. I did one in Ifana. I learned a bit about Che on it. There you go. There you go. So Matthew Webb, what are we going to?

Wow. Mate. Matey Webb. Madey. Imagine if you became an icon, the 100 most influential people of the 21st century, Mati Webb. Hey, matey. All right.

Matey. Friend Warnocky. Doesn't mate. Maity sort of makes mate a bit patronising, right? Matey. Thanks, mate. What about matey mate mate, mate? Matey mate, that's totally fine.

Madey mate, web, love it. And then people in Argentina will be like, isn't that just a name? Shea, shay, covere. Matey matey, mate. Thank you, Madie, mate, web. I would also like to thank. Did you just say dairy? I did just say dairy.

Because I'm thanking someone from dairy in Great Britain, I would like to thank Sean Lannigan. Is, oh, there is in Northern Ireland, is it? Yeah. Oh, there you go. Interesting. Yes.

I wonder if that... Well, that's why it would be G.B. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just panicked. I always panicked when people put on the... I just say yes and then think, oh my God. No, I'm at... It's in Ireland, I'm sure, so...

Oh, yeah, yeah, but it was in Northern Ireland, yes. Yeah, and I had the most amazing walking tour guide who was also... I think he used to be the postman so everybody knew him. So he'd be walking along and he'd be like, hello, and he'd say hi to everyone. That is so fucking cool. So, yeah, you're doing a walking tour with the local celebrity. Yeah.

Perfect. It was awesome. All right. So how do we change that name? Lanigan is great. Lanigan. I love Lanigan. Mark Lanigan is one of my favorite musicians.

Well, we're not talking about Mark. No, I'm just trying to think if I can figure if I can work that in. What about, because it can be used at the entrance like A or right. What about ride on Lanigan? Right on Lanigan. Right on Lanigan. Sounds like ride on, like a ride on mower. Yeah, perfect.

Ride on Lanigan. That's what I said. I have a ride on Lanigan. Right on. Thanks so much from your support over in Derry. Can't believe that's awesome. Derry, that's amazing. Can you do the two, can you do a Dublin accent versus a northern accent, Jess?

I can't do it, no. But there's a difference. Like, Jemowan is northern. Right. It sounds almost a little bit more. I don't know, not Scottish, more, maybe, yeah. It's beautiful. I actually, I really like Northern Ireland.

I like the Irish accent. Yeah, it's great. But Northern's very cool, but I can't do it. I don't think I can do a good Irish accent in general, to be honest. But anyway, give it a crack. So should I thank some people too? That would be great. Okay, great.

Well, I would like to thank from St. Petersburg in Florida. Oh, not far from Cuba. And the Florida keys. Is that what the Florida keys are in Florida? Yeah. Keys, is that just like islands? No, it's like a set of keys. Like a, you know, like a...

The keys of the city. Keys. Right, cool. Dave, I picked up your keys for a bit. Don't be mad at me. Oh. Are you mad? Oh, I do not forgive.

I do not. Well, I would like to thank before I die, apparently. Brent Sanukes. Sanukes. Sanaks. Oh, that is a... Brent Sunnix. Sunnix.

I'm glad we're only changing the first name here. I know, because that is, you know, you mess with that you go to jail. Can that be bro? Bro, sonics. Oh my God. That's cool. So good. Thanks, bro.

That just got me a shiver. In Florida. Bro, sonics. And we're happy with Sonics there? It's not going to be right, is it? It'll be Sunix. Try to say it like an American would. Yeah, I don't know.

Bro Sunix. But you got to say it like a Florida. Floridian. Like Flo rider. Oh, yeah. What's his song? Oh, Matt. He had a big, he's a one-hit wonder, isn't he?

Flowrider? He's sort of kicking around. No, he's probably one of it. He did a version of You Spend Me Right Round. They referenced out in the chorus, is that here? Probably. I don't know. Anyway, bro, thanks to you.

Love your work. Love your work. And I'd also like to thank from Paisley and G.B. Paisley. Is that where you reckon that's where the pattern comes from? Yeah. Yeah, probably. Again, that's me panicking now.

Oh, it's in the lowlands of Scotland. I'd like to think Ross Johnson Moynihan. Oh. Moyderhan. Moynihan. Moynihan. What's a moiter? Are you going to change up Ross Johnson or just Ross?

Maybe just Ross. You could have to do the double. Bro Pal Mornahan. Because Ross, obviously, he'd get Ross the boss a lot. People say, hey, boss. Oh, that's great. Boss Johnson Moynihan. Oh, my God.

Boss Johnson, BJ Moynihan. Love it. Thanks very much, boss. Boss, you're the boss. That is good stuff. Bruce Springsteen, one of my favorite musicians. Incredible. Thanks so much.

Man, these names are so good. Very good. It feels like we're making a lot of them worse. Oh, definitely. I think we do every week. I think we do every week. All the listeners have such good names. Ross Johnson Moynihan.

Brent Sonics. What else? Who else we have? Matthew Webb. Cheyenne Lanigan. Am I saying that right? I thought it was Sean. Sean.

That's right. I'd love to thank, if I may, from Newcastle in England. Henri Smith Henry Henry Smith Henry Henry Smith That's a good name

I like it Yeah I like Henry a lot Anything coming to mind Bonjour Smith Because you're thinking Henri I guess so Yeah I love it

Yes Bonjour Smith So good Bonjour Smith Bonjour Smith Bonjour Smith I prefer to pause and then put a very Australian accent on Smith.

Bonjour, Smith. That makes me happy. But hey, whatever works for you. Have you guys ever had the Newcastle Brown Ale from Newcastle? No. Is that, what is this euphemism? What's going on? Is that a sex move?

The rusty trombone. No, it's... Like it's stuff? No, it's one of the first beers, international beers, I would have ever had. It's really, really not. I haven't had in a long time, but I used to love it. I don't say it around as much as you used to, but a delicious beer.

And I would also love to think. Where did that come from? He's from Newcastle. Henry Smith's from Newcast. I was so confused. I was like, all right, man. But just a question, have you ever tried? Chinese fried rice, because it is quite good.

Sorry. And I'd also love to thank from San Antonio in Texas, Spurs Country, Colin with a K Colin Spenrath Oh Spenrath Bucco Spenrath Bucco Spenrath

Oh that's That is really good That's the first one I feel like I really can get behind My God you nailed that Do you think that maybe This could be the start of a new New name

Yeah I reckon I reckon Colin might say going around as Bucco He demands people call him Bucco He sends out like a He puts it on Facebook He goes like hi everyone I just want to address you all and let you know that I am now changing my name to Bucco. One of a girl in primary school did that.

We all called her Katie and then one day she came into school and she was like, I'd really prefer it if you referred to me as Catherine. And then, this is in grade one. Oh, I was going to say what age is this? Yeah, because that sounds fine. You should be allowed to be called by your name. But yeah, grade one is bold. It's so funny.

And guess what? What happened? We then called her Katie in this primary in the playground and she chased us around angrily. It was very fun. Oh, I love it. Anyway, I hope you well. Prudal. I love it too.

I hope you well, Catherine. I love that story of bullying in early primary school. Thank you. It says a lot about Jess and the person she really is deep down. You're a real buck-o. A big old bully. So thanks to all the legends that support us at Patreon. Makes a big difference to our lives.

And you get some cool stuff, so maybe we make a difference to your life. And you know, we're over 70% to our goal to tour America now? It's really gone up a lot this year. year, it's feeling like that maybe next year could be the year. It really does feel like it's possible, which is... We could come to places like San Antonio. Probably not specifically there, but somewhere in Texas. Yeah.

If we go to USA, we have to go to some sort of sports game. I've decided that. Fuck, yes. If I'm using the correct terminology. Some sort of sports game. The list of things and places we've got to see and do is going to be huge. I mean, it might be a nine-month tour like Che. Driving around on a...

Gary's high up on the list. We'll be going to Gary. Buckeye State University is probably in Ohio. It's probably something we've got to get to. I've always wanted to see Matt Rushmore. Low on the list, unfortunately. No pubs around there. Matt's not interested.

No, yeah, that would be great. I wouldn't even know where that is. Is that in the Grand Canyon? I think it's in South Dakota. Isn't that in the Grand Canyon? Yes, no. It's in South Dakota. And I don't know how many South Dakota sisters we have.

Isn't it like New York, Disneyland, and the rest is the Grand Canyon? Yeah, it's all in the Canyon. That's my understanding. It's in the Canyon. I think part of New York's in the Canyon. Sure. Tipping in the Hall. Manhattan's up and Staten Island's in the Grand Canyon.

It's in the Grand Canyon? Oh, God, I don't know. Come on, Dave. Have you ever seen that famous statue they've got of Liberty? In the Grand Canyon? Yeah, it's in the Canyon. Oh, I feel like a fool. Yeah.

Yeah, you look like that. All right, we've got to go now. I've got to go learn about geography, apparently. I've got to look up this Grand Canyon. It sounds grand. It is big. It is a big canyon. All right, we've got to go.

Thanks again for listening to the show. We'll be back next week with another topic from the hat. Keep the suggestions going. But until then, I'll say thank you. And goodbye. Later. Bye. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network.

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