Two In The Think Tank - 164 - The Waco Siege

Episode Date: December 12, 2018

This week's topic is the Waco Siege. Beginning in early 1993 after an ill fated raid on a compound outside of Waco, Texas, the Waco Siege was an unprecedented and tragic event in United States history.Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPod Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-Topic Twitter: @DoGoOnPod Instagram: @DoGoOnPod Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/ Email us: [e-mail] Book tickets to Matt's stand up show (in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane and Melbourne) with the early bird discount code: dogoon via mattstewartcomedy.com/gigs  Check out our other podcasts: Book Cheat: https://omny.fm/shows/bookcheatPrime Mates: https://omny.fm/shows/prime-matesREFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.biography.com/people/david-koresh-9368416http://time.com/5115201/waco-siege-standoff-fbi-david-koresh/https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/01/waco-david-koreshhttp://articles.latimes.com/1993-03-02/news/mn-73_1_david-koreshhttps://www.aetv.com/real-crime/waco-siege-david-koresh-branch-davidians-facts-to-knowhttps://www.statesman.com/news/20180416/a-quarter-century-later-dark-theories-still-hover-over-waco-siegehttps://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/federal-agents-raid-the-branch-davidian-compound-in-waco-texashttps://www.vox.com/2018/4/19/17246732/waco-tragedy-explained-david-koresh-mount-carmel-branch-davidian-cult-25-year-anniversaryhttp://time.com/5115201/waco-siege-standoff-fbi-david-koresh/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUAeG0FLLmAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGT1F0jYhFwhttps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/31/sacred-and-profane-4

Hey everybody, Jess and Dave, just jumping in really quickly at the top here to make sure that you are across all the details for our upcoming Christmas show. That's right, we are doing a live show in Melbourne Saturday December the 2nd, 2023, our final podcast of the year, our Christmas special. It's downstairs at Morris House, which usually be called the European beer cafe. On Saturday December the 2nd, 2023 at 4.30 pm, come along, come one, come all, and get tickets at dogoonpod.com. Hi icons, it's Danny Pellegrino

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This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbrotcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. do it and Jess Perkins. Hello, Dave. Hello, Dave. What, guys? What a musical opening. Yeah, Matt and I have started a band. Okay, you know what else is a musical opening? Your mom's butt. No, I'm regretting that.

Damn it. What are you regretting taking my catch phrase? Yeah, good. So that's what you say on the podcast. Oh, yeah, I definitely have before. I mean, we've got do go on pod.com slash yeah, mums, but is a page on that one. So I'm asked to set it on there. But I do say it off air a lot. A lot. You say that. Too much. So much. So much. So much. So much. Which is also the name of our band. Yes. So much.

Summer. Summer. Summer. Which is also the name of our band. Yes. So much. Um, thank you. And, uh, Thank you and goodnight, Wes.

So much. Will you please accept this flyer to our upcoming battle of the band's gig? I'd love to support you in the battle. Being held in a primary school gymnasium? Oh, how I'm going to boo those little kids. Yeah. No, the children won't be there. It'll be an after hours thing.

Oh, okay. I thought you were competing against Elephant and your horse. I'm just having flashbacks for when Yeah, no, the children won't be there. It'll be an after hours thing. Oh, okay, I thought you were competing against 11, your ass. I'm just having flashbacks to when I used to compete in battle with the bands, and they were always in a school gym. Right, did you ever win a battle with the bands? God no, really! But we were often the only all-girl band. Oh, that's great.

Or, yeah, occasionally the only band that had a girl in it. It was just like four teenage boys. I was probably competing against you. One a couple of battle of bands. Did you? Yeah, I got a one time, given a giant novelty check. Cool. And then it was really annoying to realize that that is not cashable. Oh, that is so cool. They take the check back and give you a real check.

So why get the big one made? No, it's very annoying. Because that would be expensive as well. Yeah, I guess it was. And at the time, it was big money. But showing the forest, $500. Woo! Betraying the how many of you?

Four. That's a real small scar band. How many of you were on saxophone? Three out of four. Three out of four. And then there was a new... And you're on trombone. 10 of sax.

10 of sax. I don't count. And then there was a new... And you're on Trombone. 10 of sex. 10 of sex. I don't count it, there's a real sex. That's way cooler than the other sex. What do you call the other sex? Normal sex. Yeah, just regular sex. Yeah.

And again, scar is the... BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM One, right? Yeah. Absolutely correct. As far as I understand it. But I am a musicologist, so I would understand it. Okay, so no more questions.

Is that okay? Yep. Okay, great. Now, this is the first time you listen to the show we're about to start up, but I'm going to give my good friend Matt Stewart just a quick chance to plug his upcoming stand-up comedy shows. Oh, cool. Thank you.

Yes, I'm touring my new show, Bondre, and it's coming to Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane and Melbourne, and maybe other places as well. You can find out details for all of those at matstewettcomedy.com slash gigs. If you use the code, do go on. There's an early bird discount for at least the time being, I believe. I don't know when it runs out, but it's definitely live now because I was told that yesterday. So act today, not tomorrow.

Yeah. But preferably yesterday when Matt was told. Yes, definitely. Also, very quick plug for Dave's podcast book, Cheat comes out by Weekly, which means every two weeks, I think. That is also a kind of basically, I'm gonna just make it twice a month

because some, that makes five Tuesdays. But quick plug for it. Got the Christmas special coming up next week and you two are the guests on it. I have forgotten that. It was such, I think it was one of the silliest podcasts I've ever been involved in. And I apologise, previously to you and I apologise, previously to you. I apologise to you too, Jess. Was I a bit feral on that one?

No, you were so funny. Dave. Feraly funny. Okay. My usual. And this week's primates features a comedy hero of mine. I still can't really believe he came on, Tony Martin. Oh, yeah.

Tony Martin. He was sitting in this studio and another comedy hero, Joshua. Oh my God. The Joshua. Yes. So great combo. And it was so much fun. A lot of the podcast was me and Josh going and Tony, what about the time you did this? Can you tell us a bit about that?

That's the best. And occasionally he'd be like, oh, yeah, there was sort of, and he'd be trying to tie it back into primates. It's like, don't worry about that anymore. Yeah. Get rid of the premise, Tony. Just give us your sweet stories.

Nothing matters anymore that you're here, Tony. I can't wait to listen to you. Why are you here, Tony? Because I kind of, I hope to listen to it and hear Matt sort of just be like, oh, I'm, I'll try and edit that out, but I won't get out of it. I won't be able to get all of that out. That's so cute.

So that comes out tomorrow, so, so cool. I still, yeah, it still seems pretty surreal to me. Yeah, that is wild and awesome. So cool. Well, also I've got, I've got news. Oh, please. This week at my house, I plugged in my old Wii and played a bit of Mario Kart. That is fun.

So that'll be, yeah, you guys can check that out. I can do like, I believe Twitch is that where people stream. Yeah, fuck it. I'm a gamer now. I'm a full on. You're going all in. I'm a gamer. Also, I tried to buy different Wii games. I don't make new games for me anymore

You're a retro gamer. Yeah, my retro gamer Okay, today I googled how to unlock new levels on with Mario Kart Wii That's I can't even understand that kind of gamer talk. I know that's so old I mean you have to get a convert up to that Anyway, I'm just saying we've all got stuff going on. Yeah, we totally do. Now we've started plugging our stuff going on. Matt, let's get into the show because you said it's going to be a long one, but a fun one

and a great one. I think this may be the longest report I've ever written. I've done more research. I think than ever, ever before. Was it like two and a half pages? Great. I honestly have spent all week with this and it's a bit nervous about it because anyway, let's get into it and then we can talk a bit about a bit more about it.

The way this show works for those tuning in for the first time, we each take it in turns, each episode and research topic and do a report on it. The other two don't know what that topic is, so Dave and Jess don't know what I'm about to tell them about. We get on a topic with a question. The question is, the branch divisions were a Christian sect at the center of which tragic 1990s siege. 1990s siege.

Seage. Oh, I think I, if you're... Dave's clutching his head. That's never good. Because I didn't know anything about this. I put this up to the vote. Seven different topics I put up to the patrons for a vote. This beats a serial killer.

Wow. Is it the, because I've put it up for a vote as well before, and it just came second. Right. Interesting. Is it the Waco siege? It is the Waco siege. If I was in your position, my guess would have been under siege two. This time it's six a girl, film. Under siege two, what is it called?

It's the one on the train. It's called, oh, a dark territory. That's the name of other siege two, dark territory. Because the whole concept is they're on a train that's out of control. It's gonna smash into another train that's filled with oil, but they're on the other side of a mountain. so they're in dark territory and they can't contact them.

Wait, and that's so the first one was on a naval ship. Yeah, we talked about it in land. Yeah, I love it. That's a wild giant. I did a red speed. A red speed. Yes, speed went the other direction. There weren't.

Anyway, that's too much fun, and we shouldn't talk more about that off the pod. This has been suggested by a lot of people. I just did a quick browse through, so sorry if I missed your name, but it was suggested by, how do you say C-I-A-N? Is that Sean? I'm gonna say Sean Lannigan,

David James Gaskell, Shameless Dobbs, Garner Goodall, what a name. Well, Nathan Westel, Westelle, porno, well, Nathan Wessel, Wesseloh, Adam Stolts, thank you Adam for having a pronounceable name. Anthony, thanks for not having a surname. Ryan Campbell and Tessa Dickland. Awesome. So it's been a multi-banny requested.

That means many good requested. All right, well let's get stuck in. I should say this is a very contentious event. Still, over 25 years later, people are still debating what really happened, that sort of stuff. So I'm gonna tell the story as best I can. If you know a lot about it, you're probably gonna disagree with stuff,

but just know that I'm having a bloody go. And yeah, I think if you feel passionate about this, maybe you shouldn't listen to this. Cool. Alright. Well, I'm turning off, because I'm really passionate. Okay, well, fair warning Dave, if you're going to keep those headphones on, enter at your own risk. The key man in the Waco siege is a man, dude, would you remember this day? No, because I only briefly looked into it

and then it came second, so I was like, put that back in the hat. Yeah, I don't, obviously, because it all came to a head in the early 90s, so you wouldn't, I don't remember it. Yeah, not on the news or anything, yeah. At the time, I'm sure you wouldn't, but it was huge worldwide news anyway.

The key man in the Waco Siege is David Kuresh. He's the leader of a cult at the center of the Waker Siege. That cult being the branch of Indians. Maybe some people say it's not a cult, it's just an offshoot of a religion. Depending on which side of it you're on. It's an offshoot of a bigger cult. Cult or it's just a Christian religion.

Every religion starts as a cult, if you're gonna call a small religion a cult. Anyway, right. So that's one thing I'm sure some people, anyway, I'm gonna try not to second guess everything I say. Kresh was born Vernon Wayne Howe. And it's... Vernon.

It took, because there's an old time great, St. Kool-Depthay, he's a Hall of Fame, Verden Howe and I'm like what are the yards but it's slightly different so no big Vernon though. Vernon. I think classic. Can you believe it? It changes name to David. You watched a lot of Harry Potter lately. I did. I watched all of it. Uncle Vernon. What does he? The red guys dad? Oh boy. I was gonna say the Vernon Dursley. Is the only Vernon I think I know. Great name.

Very close to Vernon. Yeah. I see why she did it. Is he a rat? Is he the rat man? Is he the rat man? And a scat man. Don't be the batman.

So he was born. Is the rat man? He's a rat man. Is he the rat man? And a scat man. Doobie the bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat bat 18 year old Bobby Wayne Howe left before Vernon was born, meaning he never met his dad. He didn't change his name too much later, but for EZ, I'll just start calling him Crescent from here. Crescent spent many of his early years in the care of his grandparents. Obviously, his mom was very young, and I guess that was one of the reasons why he was basically brought up by his grandparents. And he attended a seventh day eventist church, which is what the, the Davidians split off from. He studied the Bible and had it memorized by his teenage years. What's the bunch of documentaries?

Mum is in a lot of them. And she talks about how he went through and he memorized the new testament by the age, I think it was like the age of eight or something. Like legitimately memorized. Well, that's how they made it sound. He'd, he'd, Hey, six, top left. That's what Greg.

Damn, he's good. I've written Greg at the top of every page. My name's Greg, it's my Bible. He dropped out of school to take up carpentry. And another guy who dropped out of school to take up carpentry is my friend Matthew Flanagan. He actually didn't, he didn't drop out. He did it after, he did it. Anyway, it doesn't matter. In his, in his 20s, he moved out of Flanagan or the, no, we're back to Vernon. In his 20s, he moved out of, out the Flanagan or... No, we're back to Vernon.

In his 20s, he moved out to LA to try to make it as a rock star. It was a museo. Love shredding on the guitar. Minimumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumumum other hobbies are religion, which I don't think any devoutly religious person would refer to it as a hobby. Yeah, that might be. What are your hobbies, Jesus? Jesus.

Yeah, dabbling a little bit of the Bible. Now on the side, obviously my main, I get my main crust from carpentry, then out on the side. Those are weekends? Cause your side hustle is the Bible. Yeah. But he really was like a Bible guru.

He wasn't very good at studying in the traditional sense. Probably had dyslexia, got teased a lot at school. He found school years very lonely, but he loved the Bible. He didn't make it as a rock star and before long return to Texas and joined the seventh day Adventists. Is that a band or? Yes, they were a scape band. I sound a little bit like. Oh, tenisex. Yeah. My favorite kind. I wanted to do something that wasn't the thing I've done twice.

I was trying to do a switch route. And the only other sound I could think of. It was a different saxophone. Yeah. I guess the other thing is Sandi Makers and a saxophone, is it? No. It's the Scout Man. It's a Scout Man.

Do you guys remember the proud moment of our lives last month when we were on Baker Street in London and we were listening to Baker Street? What a moment. I'll never forget that. Play on an iPhone. Offers outside the Sherlock Holmes Museum. Some people having photos of Sherlock Holmes Museum.

And we've got... Buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh- or it's my people. That's the songs, the songs in the name of the street, right? We had a good old time, eh? We loved them though. Very good fun. So, Chris, he joined the Seven Day Advent. Yes, that's right. So, he was getting into an organized church, but he didn't get on with the church elders and was kicked out after all.

Apparently, he had a vision that he read a passage of the Bible when he was thinking about the preacher's daughter and he's like, this is a sign that I'm meant to be with her from God and he went and he talked to the pastor or whatever, and it's like, yeah, God wants me to be with your daughter. And the pastor's like, no, I don't think that's what God's saying. And he's like, no, it is, and he wouldn't drop it.

And then he eventually got kicked out. That's one. Did anybody consult her at all? Or you just went, just go straight to dad and dad go straight to know? Well, I mean, look, I think I don't look, I don't know. I read that, that's just one version of events. But you read and who are you thinking of when you're reading that? I don't, but I mean, if you do believe in God,

I reckon that probably does mean that if there is an all-powerful God and he says, date the daughter, just check in with the priest. Oh, look, I don't know. I don't know. I've never reached out to me like that. Anyway, let's go back to it. Exactly. Let's go back to the 1930s when according to history.com, a disgruntled member of the seventh day Adventist church named Victor Houtef broke away and founded the Davidian movement. So there's a whole other story, but we won't go into it, but he fought with 7th day Adventist elders.

He's like, we're losing track of what we should be doing here. He wrote a thesis about it. They said they'd get back to him. A lot of them never replied. One guy did say, no, you're on the wrong track, mate. Doesn't, you're barking up the wrong bush sort of thing. They'll quote in the Simpsons in back then. And, it's fun to think you ever said.

So he went, all right, I'm gonna start my own thing, which he did. When he died, a man named Ben Rodin led an off-shoot of that movement known as the branch Davidians. And by 1962, he took over Houtaf's original settlement at Mount Carmel, near Waco. So, who took it over, sorry? Kerash.

Ben Rodin. Oh, Rodin, sorry, sorry. Kerashs, at this stage, is a youngster. Gotcha. But Rodin's, it's easy young stuff. Gotcha, but Rodin's taken it over in Waco. Yes, I believe so. The branches teachings, including that the Bible is literally the word of God, and they started to find clues

about the apocalypse and the second coming of Christ. So they really took everything literally, and they thought that all the meaning of life and the secrets of everything were basically in the words of the bar. It sounds like they weren't really taking it literally because they were looking for hidden messages. Yeah, okay. The literal truth. Yeah, it's mean by that. In 1978, Ben Rodin died and his wife Lois took over as leader of the branch. Lois.

Yeah, that's a leader I could get behind. Well, so could Kuresh because three years later he arrived. Now 22, he got to Matt Carmel, according to an article in the New Yorker. He arrived in a yellow Buick. It's a bit of flavour. It's a bit extra detail. He doesn't necessarily need to know. I like that I know it. Yeah, look, now you've got a picture in your head. He's got a circle. It's a bit of extra detail. You don't necessarily need to know. I like that I don't know it.

Yeah, look now you've got a picture in your head. He's got a surfboard on the roof for some reason. Closureized day. What else do you see? He's got fluffy dyes hanging from the roof, you mirror. What colour are they? Red with white dots. Yep.

What else do you see? He's got a mullet. Yes, he does. Okay. He wears sunglasses even at night. Yeah, that sounds like him. Well, he wears sunglasses, type glasses, but with singlass lenses.

He's listening. So you're close. Okay, and he's listening to country music. Well, probably. I mean, you're telling me. Well, did you go travel back there? Yeah, I feel like a high-powered was reaching out to us then. All right, mate. Do you think you have a, I've got to go talk to the priest about something.

So he rocked up in his yellow Buick as another in a long line of disenchanted seventh day Adventist in search of a pure church. He was not sick or charismatic. This is all words from the New Yorker, not in the conventional sense. It's like our Jesperkins. Hey, I'm slick though. But not in the conventional sense.

Yeah, I'm unconventionally slick in that I'm very oily. How much of the description do you relate to? It was thin with long, wavy dark hair and a gentle manner. I'm I'm I'm flustered that you called me thin. I was saying look you got long wavy hair you got a gentle manner. Well you're up and learning how to do it. A little bit. He was good with engines and guns, and he played in a rock band.

Jess, you entered a battle to the bands and lost. His foreign education was limited. His vocabulary, which is a word I struggle with, unfortunately. His vocabulary was full of words of his own invention, which I like. Hey, Shakespeare made up a lot of words too. Exactly, the way we still use. Hey, Shakespeare made up a lot.

Hey, hey, hey, that was just a couple of them. That was his defense. Remember in Hammond when he was like, Hey, hey, hey, hey, I'm talking to a ghost here. Hey, look at me holding a skull over here. Yeah, I know the person above. I'm gonna see. you. Hey, look at me holding a skull over here. Yeah, no, no, no, the worst of the bar. 12th night next week. Oh, sorry, a couple of weeks together.

Did you? I did, I'm not gonna enjoy. Melvin Theatre Company. I will say it is a bit of a delightful rump very silly, but 12th night is very silly. Really? I tell you what, you two and your affluent East weekend behaviors.

Oh, just off the sea, so I'm half here, tar. I don't know, you know what they don't have? Did you know this? That's Colin Haye from MinuteWork is in it. Get fuck. I'm not kidding. I was watching, so it's a very musical Shakespeare. So I've seen it a couple of times

and both times I put music in. They're playing a lot. He's playing a gesture type, very funny. As this Scottish, I'm sitting in the second row, I was very close, but he's got lots of makeup on and I'm thinking of myself, looks a lot like Colin Hay, but surely they would have advertised the show as having Colin Hay, if Colin Haye was in it, walk into the foyer. There is a people having programs in there, it's Colin Hay. That is awesome. Frank Woodley's in it. Colin Haye. That is awesome.

Frank Woodley's in it. Great. I'm so excited. The reason we got tickets over a year ago is because it was gonna be Jeffrey Rush and then Jeffrey Rush has been in court a lot lately. So he's not playing it, but Frank Woodley is. So I'm still pretty excited to be honest.

Yeah. Frank Woodley in court, hey. Why didn't they advertise Colin Haye? I have no idea. Whoa! Sorry to derail. Frank Willing, Colin, hey. Why didn't they advertise Colin, hey? I have no idea. Whoa, sorry to derail. Sort of that ruined a surprise for you, but. No. It was, and he was just,

He was singing, and he meant it. Did he sing? Yeah, lots of singing. So I reckon I would have recognized his voice. Yeah, that's exactly the song I have ever heard. No, he does a lot of, he plays a 12 string guitar. Right now, fuck yeah. Oh, I'm so excited.

I would have thought it'd be a loose or something. There was a bit of sort of of loose action in the music. Luton, son. Sorry to do rally then, I need to play. That's exciting. Why did I get... Oh, because we're talking about the hamlet, it's like... It sounds like they're making Shakespeare fun. Woodley and that does sound great.

Which one's 12th night? Is that the one with the tempest? Very good. It's it's two twins Two twins that wash up my perfect number of twins in my book. Yes, that wash up on a beach in there Even though different genders very identical and they swap All right, I'm a boy play. Yeah, that kind of thing and it have no one can build it's because it's quite it's a bit of a fast But I can't believe it. Oh my goodness. But you look exactly like him. But you're saying you're a girl?

Oh my goodness, but yeah. You go along with the fan, it's a bit of fun. It's a bit of fun. Yeah, Shakespeare plays a meant to be stupid and mocked. Right. I'm sorry that we're taking it. That's what he wrote. That's why he wrote him.

Some culture in the cultural hub of Australia, Melbourne. Yeah. Sorry about that. I'm sorry. I think Shane Bourne named his kid Mel. That feels like something Shane Bourne would do, you know? Melbourne. I think it was down the little something like that.

Oh, I welcome to thank God you're here. I'm Shane Bourne. That's my brush of Shane Bourne. That's spot on. It's not bad. Yeah, okay. Still going on this description of the right. Oh, great. Oh, sorry. He's thin, not charismatic, but he's making up words.

Make it work. He wore dirty jeans, t-shirts, and sneakers. And after study sessions, oh my god. Jess is showing us her filthy pants. I'm showing you that I'm wearing sneakers. I assumed you already knew I was wearing jeans because you could see it. You were in a t-shirt, jeans and sneakers.

Yes, I'm always in those three things. Well, is this true of you? After study sessions would gather some of the other young men and head into Waco to drink beers and play some rock and roll. That sounds like me. Okay, so he's a party dude. A little bit rock and roll, baby. Like sometimes some accounts talk about him like that and other ones, other time, anyway, we'll get through that.

The New Yorker article goes on to say, though, that when it came to the Bible, he was without peer. One of the Davidians later wrote that the first few times he heard Karech speak, he was convinced that this was of God and that Karech made scripture come alive. He showed that all of the prophets in the Bible were writing more for our day than for their own time. So when he talked about it, people were like, yeah, this speaks to me now. And that same guy talked about it when Lois was in charge and her teachings and they were like, I don't know about this. And then Kresh came in and he was like,

well, this is all, this is talking to me. Apparently, he just have really had someone about him. But he's not that charismatic off-book, but since he starts reading the Bible, people are like, okay. He's unconventionally charismatic and he just but people who who are looking for answers they really find stuff with him and not like not idiots who don't know anything about the Bible and in these are people who are already searching and making

their way through different like I read about people who are trying all these different sex of Christianity before finding correction being like wow this their way through different, like I read about people who were trying all these different sex of Christianity before finding Corration being like, wow, this guy has got me. It was Corration's way with the Bible that saw him become a popular member of the church, and along the way become romantically involved with it, 60-something year-old leader, Lois Rodin. Oh, wow, he's gone with the leader. According to AETV.com, he reportedly told her he was destined to father a child with her, which I don't think happened. Because she was over 60. Yeah, but I think they were impossible. They had a crack, I believe,

but I don't believe there was a child born. Because her twice, he's been wrong with destiny so far. In the following years, Lois also passed away, and her son, George Rodin, took over. A battle for control of the sect flared up between George and Kuresh. Apparently, George didn't appreciate Kuresh's relationship with his mum. Right, was George amongst other things. It's George older than Kuresh. I don't know this to sure, but I picture them to be ever similar.

But maybe George might have been, it was probably a little bit older. Can I imagine. And you're getting in feeling that there's a few of these members, or it's pretty exclusive for this stage? At varies, but it's, people are sort of coming and going. People are moving over, but he's also, I'll talk about it a little bit, but he travels. He goes all around the world, talking to talk about it a little bit, but he travels, he goes all around the world, talking to people about this.

But recruiting, talking? And so it's a very international flock at Mount Carmel. An article in the LA Times from 1993, which I think was written during the siege, tried to piece together a Keresh's story from interviews. And they stated that at one point in the late 80s, Keresh split from the group at Mount Carmel and took his followers to Palestine and Texas where they lived in buses and primitive shacks. So for a little while, he's like, there was a bit of a rupture and he goes, all right, people who were with me were going out to this other town in Texas and we're going to

hang out here for a while. And they lived there for a bit but they say he returned to stake his claim on the Waco property and ended up engaging in a gun battle with the then leader at George Road and. Whoa! Didn't see that coming. Yeah, I've read a few like everyone who reported on it. It was often a throwaway line in these articles on this story because I guess they're trying to get to the bigger story, which we're on the way to as well, but yeah, I was like, well, that's wild. And one version of it I read, one of, I think George said to Kresh,

let's see who can bring a body back from the dead, then you'll know who's the real leader. Right, is anyone claimed to be able to do that? No, I don't think it's a challenging story. Yeah, it's like, this is from history.com. In a gun battle in late 1987, George Rowden was shot in the head and Chess and Kresh, and Seven Followers went on trial for attempted murder.

The Seven Other Men were acquitted, and Kresh's case ended in a mistrial. So Kresh was a free man. Right, and you say attempted murder, so he didn't die. He didn't die, no. Shot in the head. And Chess, that's amazing. Yeah. That was a free man. Right, and he said, attempted murder, so he didn't die. He didn't die, no. Shot in the head. And chest, that's amazing.

That was the big two. And then he ended up... Oh, sorry, the third being the butt. Yeah, he just the butt, two of the big three. He ended up getting in trouble for other things, George Rowan, so he was off the scene. Through the 80s and into the early 90s, Cresh continued to travel to recruit followers

and set himself up in a number of locations, often in California. One man who was introduced to Kresh when he was out recruiting talked to their meeting, he didn't get involved, but he remembered the brief meeting saying, the night I met Kresh, he asked me, would you die for Christ? I said, I guess so. He said, would you kill for him?

I said no. And he turned to my friend and said, hey, you just brought me another weak Christian. At some point around 1986 or 1987, Kharash lived in San Bernardino in California. There he is said to have lived a strictly biblical life, as in strictly observing biblical teachings, including even cautioning a friend against laughing, and also observing Friday night through Sunday night Sabbath,

which is a long Sabbath for me. That laughing one, I'm not sure where that comes from, because it sounds like for the most part Generally that's not how he was he was everyone was he was having a good time Jesus depends on who you're talking to those on one side He's there's like full-circa path and other people like no it was it was a you know It was a nice guy for the most part just Yeah, depending on who who you're from. You just stop there, we'll stop laughing. Yeah, which is a bit of an odd one.

The Times article also suggests he was seen driving expensive cars and riding a Harley Davidson motorcycle to bars like the whiskey or go-go and the Roxie on sunset strip, partly with other musicians. God intended it. Yeah, I don't remember. Harley Davidson. Reading in the Bible, thou shall not write a hog. That shall not be a bad ass on two wheels.

Get him a segue. In the following years, he set up a house in Le Verne in California where he took multiple wives. And there, there were accusations that some of those were underage. Robin Buns. Sorry. No, no.

One of the wives. Robin Buns. Robin Buns. But he been up to it. Just Robin Buns. So there was an inquiry into the underage relationships there. Nothing came of it. But one of the wives, one of the women who was with, who was an

older lady, I believe, or of a Robin Buns accusing him of stealing their son. And she went to the cops and they intervened and brought the boy back to her. So, you know, slightly weird things going on. She described Koresh as charismatic and said, unless you get on his bad side, he's a very nice person, adding that he was only ever verbally abusive, never physical. Oh. Except the time he shot a guy in the head and chest.

Hmm. Yeah, well, I mean, that was in a fight. I don't know. Yeah, that's such a weird, feels like, in any other story, I'd be building up to that gunfight. Totally. But then there's just like a be building up to that gun flight. Totally. But then there's just like a little footnote that I cruise through.

Which makes me think some crazy shit's gonna happen like. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Kuresh traveled around the world to preach, including through the USA, Israel, Britain and Australia. He spent time here in Melbourne, even I believe. He preached that he was a prophet who communicated with God and he prophesized

about the second coming of Christ and the imminent end of the world Whilst in Australia he recruited a woman named Mary Smith She traveled to California to spend time with Koresh at the Le Verne House She has sent since described Koresh as a man who appeared to be growing more and more irrational as time went on saying that when she first met him in Australia, he was quite gentle and mild-mannered. But the last time she saw him in LeVern, he was ranting and roaring and hitting a bed with a boat paddle, saying that he would use the paddle to spank both adults and children. Okay.

The transition to nut job is complete. Yeah, and that's something that, I saw other people on some dockos talking about it, like he would not just, he would spank children at the houses he kept, but also, yeah, he would punish adults with spanking as well for the size and love, but it's just a funny visual.

Yeah, both paddle. It's all a bit, a bit odd. So he dropped, both paddle. It's all a bit bit odd. Um. So we jumped. There's a bit of spanking. Between Coltish friends. It's fine. So he jumped around a bit collecting followers as he went. But by the 90s, he was well and truly in control of the Branch Davidians leadership at

Mount Carmel with Rodin out of the way. And by now had legally changed his name to David Kuresh apparently. History.com states the Kuresh is the Hebrew translation of Cyrus, the Persian king who conquered Babylon and allowed the Jews to return to Israel. I saw in a documentary Kuresh talking about it himself though

and he goes, do you know what Koresh means? And they're like, no, he goes means death. Which is something. That's a different take. Uh, Koresh, I guess, but- I'm David death is what he's saying. Both could be true, I guess. Hello, I'm David death. Sounds like a, like a daring magician. David death. Ooh.

Da-da-da. Sparks, sparks. Da-da-da. Spock, Spock, da-da-da. Nives, knives. Ha-ha-ha. Yeah. So that's Dave's new side project. David death, David death. How are we all doing?

No laughing. I will spank you with this paddle. Oh, oh. OK. And this mattress. And this mattress is going to get a punch in. They make me angry. Don't.

Now, I volunteer. Nobody. Nobody's not. Okay, guys, this is supposed to be a fun match. What, holding a knife and I've threatened to punch you. Come on. I did say, like, I just realized I said, I quoted someone saying he never got violent, and I reckon maybe the next sentence

I talked about how he spanked adults and children. So. Maybe that was from her experience. She was saying he never got violent to me. That's true. As his partner, they were threatened me, but he was verbal stuff. And he did spank me,

but it was a different kind of spanking and it was consensual. And I liked it. That's her talking. That's just reading between the lines. They're talking through you. There are, I mean, there's so many contradictions the whole way through this. Kresh now had around a hundred followers living with him, some say up around 150 at the Mount Kamal compound outside of Waco. So it's called Waco because it's the whole thing called Waco siege

because the next biggest town nearby is Waco They're at this place. They've named themselves Mac Carmel How is he able to recruit so many people to live in this remote location? Well Drew Dottal. That's a great name Who credit? There was a team in the series. I think maybe what brought this back to everyone's sorry on the delay there Bob Drew is a a good name. I think maybe what brought this back to everyone's, sorry, on the delay there, Bob. True is a very good name. There was a, he created a TV mini series called Waco that was aired early this year.

And I think that's maybe why a lot of people potentially were suggesting, I don't know, I never heard of it. This is true, true made the series. Drew, don't, don't do it with his brother. Drew, shortfall. Drusifer. Drusifer. Drusifer, don't do it. his brother. Drew, shortfall. Drusifer. Drusifer.

Drusifer, don't do it. So I was laughing over here. Drusifer, don't do it. Have a good chocolate. I don't think you thought. Drusifer, Drusifer, don't do it. Drusifer, don't do it. I made a documentary.

No, not a documentary. A dramatization mini series. Right. Called Waco. For cable TV in America, it was quite a big budget thing and got a lot of attention. It went past me without notice. I'm guessing you... I'm a big budget thing and I get a lot of attention. That's true. That is very true.

Never enough. Never enough. Get someone give just some attention. Dave, please. I won't look at a... Oh, I need this. I'm afraid. I'm so look at her. Davea. I need this. I'm afraid, so close to my eyes and imagining him in that view. Tell us what else can you say.

That mullet is flying. What color's the upholstery on the interior? It's a tan, okay. And it's got a bench seat in the back. So if you weren't strapped in around the corners, you'd be all wishing into each other. Mushing? Yeah.

Wow. Is that opposed to it like any other car? But you know, I suppose, no, this is different. So anyway, Donald or Dowdall, he spoke to Vanity Fair earlier this year saying, when they were like, how did he recruit us, people he said, yeah, this appeared and it was just a very personable guy. But one thing that surprised me is just how knowledgeable he was.

A lot of followers first became familiar with David through these bootleg cassette tapes that were being passed around in biblical circles. They would hear these tapes and say, wow, this guy's interpretation of scripture and the book of Revelation in particular is unlike anything I've ever heard. So conversational. Wow. Hey Jenny, have you heard this new tape? No, what is it? It's unlike anything I've ever heard. Is this the dream? Is this the dream? The high budget thing? A scene from it? Yeah. A montage of him recruiting people. Just people on the beach like listing on their little

walkments. People and people have said that maybe the that mini series they want to explore like how does someone get to have 150 people sort of living under them like that. And they're like, obviously, there's got to be something about him. So they were exploring that more. And some people say, well, they're really humanizing this guy. Right. Yeah. Cause a lot of suffering. Sure. I mean, there's got to be before the suffering. There's got to be reasons for people to live with them. Yeah, well, that's right. I think there's nothing black and white, right? This story more than anything.

A zebra. That's very good for you. I always think it on that zebra. Your shirt, the, right now, is black and white. It's still like a real fool. All right, apart from this shirt and zebra's. Newspapers before color printing came in What about the green god?

Well played Oh no chessboards black and white TVs a black and white What else is black and white? That's about it. I'll go back to you on that one. Everything else. What about shades of grey? Hmm. Hmm. I think better.

Yes, but how many shades of grey? 49. Nice. Save. You know how I am with numbers. I knew that would set you off. That's why I did it. One more.

I caused trouble. But you quite enjoy the number 69. That's for I did it. One more. I cause trouble. But you quite enjoy the number 69. That's for different reasons. You're always saying it's a nice number. But I guess it is sort of round of three 13s. It's probably somebody you like about it. What? It is not 313s. Fuck.

It's a 39. What is it? How many 13s is it? It's no amount of 13, 323s, 323s. Oh, I do like that. I say 23 funny day. It's not teasing me about it. 313s plus 10 each. I say 23 like 13.

When I say 23, that's male brain actually saying, Dibbidi-du. So it's a very complicated system But if I think Dibbidi do my mouth says 23 if I think 13 I say 23 all right Wow So right is it right if you started to call everyone the join? Yeah, you're so charismatic. I move across across the world. I've got to tell you,

I don't know how charismatic someone would have to be to make, I don't know, I imagine they're living in not the most comfortable conditions, 150 people, like they don't, I don't think they've planned for the infrastructure probably for, for beautiful on-sweets and such. I think it's not a bad, it's not too bad. I think it's a pretty nicely built place. Ever again, depending on who you talk to, some people are like, from I'm so happy, it was a bright and nice place to live. Some people are like, another people like, like often a relative

of someone who was in there though, like it was, you know, they were brainwashed. Some people who must still around say, no, it was different from that. Others are like, who have got out of like no it was different from that. Others are like who have got out of like it was a nightmare just like how many different versions of the same reality is fascinating in itself. But anyway wow this goes interpretation of scripture and the book of Revelation in particular is unlike

anything I've ever seen or heard. They had to go to Wake-O to listen to this guy speak. It was like he was a biblical savant. So that's me finishing that great dreudattle. Yeah, right, right. Quite. They simply had to. They had to. And they did.

I mean, people literally like about a quarter of the people there, I think, or maybe a bit less than that were from the UK. There definitely quite a few Australians. There were people from all around, all over America. It was a real mix of people, ages, races, countries, everything was just a big mix. And everyone, they, probably life there was at night, they'd all sit in a room and they'd talk about the Bible. Sometimes just six hours, sometimes for eight hours, sometimes for 14 hours and they'd just

debate. I wasn't like he was preaching saying this how it is apparently. Apparently there was a lot of discussion. People were able to question him and they just sat around, according to the people who speak positively at the time, just discussing the Bible. That sounds awful to me and I'm not talking specifically about the Bible part. That's fine. Just sitting for that long. Sitting and talking for that long.

But anything. Oh. Into the night. And, um... No, I need... I am... I recently discovered from a internet quiz, an introverted extrovert. Ah. Which means, I need my time, I need to back off, you know.

You can be both. Yeah, well, yeah, no, I appear extroverted, but I'm actually. Oh, yeah, I believe that. Thank you. I believe in you. That sounds like that's not a due. An internet quiz has got you. It fucking nailed me.

And then from there, a listicle. And I could relate to all of them. And I thought, oh my God, I finally understand me. So 14 hours of just being around other people. Oh man, exhausting. No, no. Yeah. Need to walk away from it.

Take your energy, take it, take it. Zapping. Zapping my energy. They're taking it all from me and they're not giving anything back, sorry, for hitting your microphone, Dave. Can you set it like you weren't sorry? Yeah, I was just really worked up. I'm really sorry, are you okay? Do you need a break from this? Maybe. You introvert.

Back in 1984, Koresh had married a teenage branch Davidian named Rachel Jones. And together they had two children. He has had so many wives though, through the story and so many children that it's hard to keep up, but I think Rachel Jones might be his only legal wife. Sounds like he had at least a dozen kids with multiple women.

But didn't actually sort of go through the ceremony of... I think just because of the... Just legally, probably. Yeah, I don't think you could in America marry multiple wives. Yeah. And that's why I say legal wife, because according to biography.com, his teachings included the practice of spiritual weddings, so not legal wedding spiritual weddings, which enabled him to bed, God chose and female followers of all ages, and with those followers he fathered lots of kids.

Maltor kids. What does that mean? That means very good kids. Right. Okay. Many of them. Many. Nice.

Very, many kids. I didn't know what was them. Many. Nice. Very many kids. Did they know what was causing? Yes. It was. Spiritual weddings. Yeah, I think it was bending rules. In interviews with branch civilians, they talked about how it made them feel special to be chosen by Kharash to be their wife, because it was like God was choosing them himself. And yeah, this is where it gets particularly a bit fucked, because it wasn't just adult women.

It sounds like he was potentially grooming quite young, girls, and marrying them like 12-ish. Oh God. I feel like I should make it pretty clear. He was fucked, like, yeah. Visit the 17 and 11 months. I could still not great, but it's like, okay. But 12.

Apparently in Texas at the time, I believe that I'm pretty sure I read that with parental consent, I think 15 was the legal age. Wow. With parental consent. That's still so high. That's right. Because his followers were so with him,

these women, what I'm talking about, the husband and wife have moved there to learn. He's gone, I'm gonna marry your wife, you're a celibate now, and that would happen. And the husbands would be like, okay. Oh my God. Well, they saw him as, you know, some sort of a prophet and I'm working directly to regard this is what God wants. Yeah.

It's like this is something a lot of people talk about. Like it's very, it's hard. Like most people like hear this and go, I don't understand it. And I'm like, yeah, that is, I just can't imagine ever being in that position where you're like, yes, okay. But I guess if you fully believe that he is God or God's working through him, you know,

how, where do you draw a line if you're going, I'm here because of this. So I guess once you're that far in, but that wasn't the case there. A lot of people left because of that. They're like, no, this is not right. That's weird. And that doesn't feel like to me as someone who went through 13 years of Catholic education. That doesn't feel like something that God would be asking of you. So if, yeah, it's interesting having that kind of that perspective on it and going, well, yeah, this is sort of what they thought and how they felt, but it's still so hard to fathom going, yeah, okay, great. What a

non- thank you so much. Yeah, it does. Why would God want this? Absolutely. Take my wife. There was one one girl, one of the husband said at one point, but I think he was an Aussie guy. He was like, he questioned it at first. He goes, is this God working through? Am I just just horny old David? And he's like, and he ended up thinking, no, I think this is God working. So he had a little flicker. He was like, I'm he was trying to figure it out. So he was still analyzing it So he said that to David is this horn you'll do and he went nanas god. Oh, just checking I mean it would have been weed if I didn't run. Yeah, so for my shoes. Anyway, I'm glad I asked I'm sorry, but I think I'm gonna go back to the celibate level

Compound catch you guys later and join it up there in your haram See later. Herum Never said that word out loud In into oh no, I've just said that a lot of these women were already married I've said that too. I've read this what the problem with going off script is I'll say things and forgetting that I've written them down. So, Coresh divided the men and the women up. The men lived on the ground floor and the women lived upstairs, coincidentally, I think that is also where Coresh lived. Guys, it's just a planning thing. It just worked out this way. Yeah, my room. I just also wear all your wipes up. I just want to be close because I need to break up all the pillow fights that women have.

It's just one big sleepover up there. It's just pillow fights and cat fights. It's just easier from there. They respect me. I don't have to run up the stairs and be like, girl, what's going on? I can just go. I'm going to go. I'd much rather hang out with you and have a boy's night. I've got got to go up there Judy calls. Sorry, but hey have fun without me. Yeah. Oh, it's gonna be hard up there without all my boys

It's gonna be hard up there. I mean my boys. Oh, yeah Anyway, God wants me to God bless all right boys boys boys all right Laters, ladies, ladies as he's taken his shirt and pants off, go up the stairs. And he says, yes. Woo! Off to bed anyway, hitting the barbell. All right, see you in the morning. We're all right.

All right, all right. Shut the door, just talking out there cracking the door. All right, all right, all right. He does hear a lady's name. He does lock the door. He does something techno music stuff. He just looks a little. He does something. Techno music stuff. He does this every night.

Every night. Oh, here we go again. Oh, I gotta go upstairs. But I listen to them Yamaranon, you know what they like. It was just fully erect as he says this. Cuts back to a group. Cuts back to a group of like smiling men just nodding like, yeah, yeah, no worries. Yeah.

God, Dave is such a good guy. Yeah. I would never want to do that. I'd never want to break up all those good vibes. Good on him, Ferb. So I got to get to hang out down here with you, Gary. Take him home for the team. You Keith.

We're a great team. You, me, Gary. And the Bible. This is fun, isn't it? I'm glad I sold our house and moved us to work. I used to have a wife. Now I've got Gary and Keith and the Bible. Shall we start from the top again? This really does seem like God's plan.

It's in the top again. This really does seem like God's plan. In the serious ways, Krashe's study of the Bible led him to believe he had cracked the code of the Seven Seals in the book of Revelation. He hacked the main frame. Yeah, well apparently, and so this meant that he believed he could predict the apocalypse. And due to this, he told his followers that God wanted them to build an army and that they needed to start stockpiling weapons. That doesn't feel like something that will end well. Yeah. For shadowing. Oh, I mean, you're skipping ahead a little bit there, but yeah, this doesn't end well. This is what they did. They started stockpiling weapons. In 1992, a

post-e delivered a package to Mount Carmel, but it dropped on the doorstep and the lid broke off, and that revealed that it was full of hand grenades. The post-e saw this and it alerted the authorities to it. So, you still take a signature? Yeah, it took the signature. This is like, yeah, cool. Yeah, just enjoy these hand grenades. I mean, not whatever it is. I don't know what it is. I'm looking. You're on business. I love that he's like, are the top of it open? Yeah, okay. You peaked. Yeah. Fucking peaked. Yeah, it fell in a broke. Okay. You're going through everyone's mind. Of course you are. But that's never happened to any package I've ever received. And I've never ordered hand grenades something that needs like a seal to work much more than any of the things I bought

Well Dave's gone through things he can say proximity minds and It's interesting of that came out not like clothes proximity minds I've never heard that that's from James one gold knife proximity minds. I've never heard that. That's from James Bond Goldnive. The video game. Yeah. Is it because I inspired you with all my game? Yeah, that was so cool. Thanks for trying to impress me with your game, Olingo. Yeah, I love Goldnive. Unless it's Mario Kart, we I'm not that interested. Yeah, sorry, I'll try again. I'll try to show it to you. So he called the authorities,

so that's one of the stories. I think they were probably on tour many way, cause they also, like this is something that didn't come up a lot, and then I just started reading about the last couple of days that they, a lot of them work jobs, like some would go home and work for a few months

and some money come back. Oh. They, the collective also had a business in town, which was a legal gun shop. Okay. There's another guy working at IT. So you're probably, you're picturing like guys in robes and just, you know, nothing else going on, but this still sounds like in part living. It's a community.

Yeah. Because a lot of the times with anything that's a bit colty, they can't leave. Or if you do your shund or bad things can happen to you. But if they're like leaving and working for a few months and then coming back, and then that's odd and amazing. Yeah, so this is what, it feels like I have not been out

of my head around it at all. Also, only a gun truck makes it really easy to stockpile weapons. Yeah, yeah, and I but I think the problem was the weapons I was stockpiling, one of the accusations is they were stockpiling semi-automatic weapons and converting them into automatic weapons or something like I don't understand, but something like that They were doing something that was, that were going beyond what was legal. Then federal authorities were made aware of this and they started noticing that, yeah, they do seem to be stockpiling weapons there at the complex. And the ATF, which is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, started watching

Koresh closely in this from an article in Time magazine. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms believed the community had nearly 250 weapons, including semi-automatic rifles, assault rifles, shotguns, revolvers, pistols, and hundreds of grenades. Hundreds. Hundreds, that's what, yeah, that's a lot of grenades. That's a lot, isn't it? Wow. They sent undercover agents into the area and some of which went into the compound sort of posing as potential followers

and they were in there for quite a while. Apparently, in one of the docks I watched, they interviewed some past members and they were like, it was really obviously moved in across the road, three middle aged men posing as students or something. I don't know if that's true or not, but it sound like it was a real, like, pretty obvious attempt at going undercut, like a bad attempt. Yeah, like how, hey, Kyle Bunger, how about the ATF, am I right?

Yeah, picture in that meme with... Steve, excuse me. Excuse me. Yeah. Hello fellow children, hello fellow kids. The idea of put in place a plan to storm the Mount Carmel property to arrest Kuresh for unlawful possession of a destructive device and to search the 77aK compound. And on Feb, the 28th, 1993, the plan was put into practice.

But right from the start, things weren't going to plan. One of these documentaries I watched, and I'll link, like I'll link all the documentaries and everything in the description if you're keen to follow up on more'll link all the documentaries and everything in the description. If you're kind of follow up on more stuff, all the articles and everything. One of them, they talked about how the branch of audience were tipped off about the rate. One version of it was that the media found out about it. So they were in the area and then a delivery man in the area, a different delivery man, I suppose. I was like, what, what are you guys up to?

And they said, oh, well, we've been tipped off about this thing. And that guy was a branched of idiot. So he went back and he's like, hey, Mr. Kresh, they're coming for us this afternoon, apparently. And then the ATF heard about that. They were made aware that they already knew.

There's a tip off about the tip off. Yeah. And they went ahead anyway with their surprise on people that have hundreds of grenades. Yeah. They're going there because of the weapons. And they knew they'd lost the element of surprise. Which is like the one thing keeping everyone safe, right? Yeah. That's right. Because it's, this is the weirdest part of it all that this raid happened.

It's so strange. So they went ahead with the plan, and there's, because there was media there, there's footage of it, so you can watch all this. And even though I've watched a bunch of footage and obviously experts have gone right through it, it still remains unclear. There's still debate on exactly what happened 25 years later.

There's still debate about who shot first, the surviving branch of audience still claim it was the ATF and vice versa. What we do know is that something like AD armed ATF agents descended on the compound and a big gun battle ensued. The ATF is not like it's eight, I don't think they'd ever really done anything like this before.

It sounded like a lot of people going into it, didn't really know what was, you know, they were pretty naive to it all. And there were interviews with FBI agents and stuff after going like, they were in over their heads, they should not have been doing this. Well, I should have called us, but they did it. Yeah.

Should have gone, but probably it just shouldn't have been happening. It just... You're right, I should have called us and we would have said, what are you doing? Yeah, it doesn't make... It's not the smart way to go. It feels like something you'd kind of expect a SWAT team to be... That's kind of what they look like. I mean, they would dress up like a SWAT with the, you know, all the equipment and the big guns and everything.

But yeah, it's just, it's havoc. The footage is wild. One member of the Davidians, a Melbourne man named Clyde Doyle, who'd actually converted into this faith in the 50. So he'd been into it since before even Kresh was born, I think, recalled the raid in his autobiography, accounting here in Kresh, say, in the compound, I want you all to go back to your rooms and stay calm, going on to say that he could hear David steps going down the hall towards the front door, then all of a sudden he heard David say,

hey, wait a minute, there are women and children in here, then all hell broke loose, just a barrage of shots from outside coming in, it sounded like a blood bath. So that's the account of one of the dividends. So he's making it sound like Dave's going, no, no, nobody's doing it, but he stands up top. The other side is saying they were shot at first and I was like, Guys, there's women and children out here. What are they doing out there? So they returned for it. But it was a shootout, which went on for quite a while.

Eventually, the shooting stopped and when it did, four federal agents were dead and so were six dividends. So there were 10 casualties in the shootout. There was also more than a dozen wounded. So I think maybe even 20 or wounded. There was quite a few wounded as well. Footage of the battle and the aftermath is chaotic. Is there any grenades being used?

I don't think so. I didn't read anything about grenades or sand. Yeah, right. But so many, but they obviously cause a lot of damage. Yeah. Yeah, it's... so many, but they obviously cause a lot of damage. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I would love to have a guy that, at a grenade.

Yeah. What would you, what do with it? I'd throw it. I think you, like an apaticle or something. Yeah. Got it a purse. I think you can go to play as an America where you can do that. I think, I'd be so terrified of going off in the hand and blowing the hand.

Oh, yeah, I'd throw it so fast grenade in the hand is worth Some of our other camera Bit finishes, but I say that But I don't think I would that's whizzed and sightful. I thought if you ever shot a gun Well, no, that's what I was just thinking because I went to Thailand where I was 21 with a bunch of friends and then like Second last day or something we did go to a shooting range and everybody had a go and accept me. I was like, I'm not that interested in doing this. So no, I don't, I take back what I said. But I just like throwing things. So maybe I'll just throw a ball around.

Are you thinking of the game worms? Because that is fun. And you throw grenades in that. Yes. Games. Yeah, gaming. I was you also say, Ha, you missed. And you know, they're going to come back. I've got a team on, I haven't played in a while, but I don't know, maybe an old phone out of worms game. And I named my team after the members of Grinderman because they have a song called Wormtamer. It's a very clever. That is great. Nick Cave was a worse, you know,

would've say stuff like that at the end, which is funny. Nick Cave won the Coward Award. Because they'd know my awards at the end of the game for a second. Hey, he did his body best video game. I remember vaguely shooting a girl when I was a kid. Were you on a farm or something? Yeah, because the first few years of my life

were out in the country, in country Victoria, and that's obviously a bit more common there. Yeah, I went spotlight. I remember going spotlighting. Yeah, my brothers got guns legally, and they're all locked up and everything. What does he do with them though? Yeah, they'd go hunting or just...

Like for rabbits or something. Yeah, he and my dad went to the shooting range together, which was quite, I was a bit surprised by that, but also like, wow, I guess you'd do an activity together. That's nice. It's nice father-son time, I guess. The moment I'm going to get brunch. So.

And they're like, can you imagine getting brunch? What is wrong with those two? Yeah. Let's go somewhere where we can't hear each other talk about loud noises. That's beautiful. I forgot, Dad listens. Hi, Dad.

Sorry. Hi, John. Keep on shooting. And maybe I'm just acting out because I wasn't invited. So I didn't even think maybe we should see if Jess wants to come. And I would have said, I bet you they had brunch as well. Fuck, do you reckon? How can you do both? How can you share? Jess wants to come. And I would have said, I bet you they had brunch as well. Fuck, do you reckon?

I reckon you can do both. I reckon you should keep both. You gotta eat. You gotta eat. Shoot a gun, smash an avocado, that's what I always say. So yeah, so the footage, pretty chaotic, during the, when it kicks off, you see multiple agents climbing up on the roof

and I saw this across so many different videos. This was probably the most famous part of the race. So different angles. Well, there's one main shot because I think early on there wasn't that much media there. Yeah. The siege went on more came. But there's, I think it's like three or four agents of climb to ladder up onto the roof. So some are breaking down the window and going in.

The one remaining on the roof, he starts to get shot at through the wall. So he gets here a few times and you can see the gunshots come through the wall at him and he sort of retreats and that's like, that's what I imagine that's probably one of the most iconic bits of the footage. I think I think that cost probably one of the most iconic bits of the footage is I think I think that guy survived. Right. I think I sort of jumped down it back down the ladder. That's full action movie being shot through something.

Yeah. It was shooting people through a table or something. Yeah. Crazy. So yeah, it just feels like there were a lot of mistakes were made just like they were sold out by their way, you out by the decision makers a little bit. It's sort of been thrown into the wolves kind of.

Then when the shooting stops, you can see the ATF agents. This episode is brought to you by Progressive. Most of you aren't just listening right now. You're driving, cleaning, and even exercising. But what if you could be saving money by switching to progressive? Drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average, and auto customers qualify for an average of 7 discounts. Multitask right now. Quote today at progressive.com. Progressive casualty and trans company and affiliates, national average 12 month savings of $744 by new customer surveyed, who saved with progressive between

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Now is the time mycomputercareer.edu. Retreating and this is apparently people who are on the inside of the dividends will like, this is the first time I saw how many they were. They're like, this is wild. What this, it's like an army out there, which is also kind of plays into what Koresh was preaching. They're gonna come for us, it's gonna be a big army.

These are passengers from the Bible that say such things. But they were, so they were treating pulling the wounded away. There aren't enough, one of the guys interviewed. He was like, there wasn't enough room for me in any of the trucks, so they had to put me on the bonnet. And there's footage of him, one of the police cars trucks, such new trucks, rolling down the road with him on the bonnet with people holding him onto the bonnet just because there's nowhere for him to be traded, they're driving him away to be traded for our bonnet of a car. So it's just havoc. This is like a, supposedly a planned raid, you know, it shouldn't end like that.

Yeah, wow. Oh. Not that I'm any expert on such things, but it just seems like an expert should have been consulted. Yeah, it just feels... Yeah, so this is what most people say, that was all a big mistake. Then there were questions being asked by the media like, why didn't they arrest Koresh outside the compound, like when he was out doing a shopping or whatever? Right, yeah, because they all like to walk down the street normally.

Yeah, that's right. And the reply was, you saw it in press conferences. We're holding press conferences from now and through the siege. And the agents, you know, the media officers would be like, he was, he never left the compound or what just wasn't possible. But this was found to be untrue. It's like I saw him at the shop last week. He would go shopping regularly, he'd go running by himself. I think there was even, it came out that the undercover agents went fishing with him or something or shooting with him. Like they escorted him off the press.

Yeah, so they had so many opportunities to arrest him. If they had a warrant for his arrest, they could have just taken him in and no one dies. There's no big raid. You don't have 80 people going out to this crazy big event. It's just done. It's just knocked on its head. So it just doesn't seem to make sense. And there's so many conspiracy theories come out of and stuff.

One of the things I read was that it was around budget time. They wanted a show. We need, we've got a lot of expenses. Look at all our mind. All right, we need these guns. Yeah, we need use these guns. That's, if that's true, that is obviously fucked. But that's just, you know, you read

all sorts of things on YouTube. Sure. Keresh's teachings meant that the dividends believed their destiny was to be involved in an apocalyptic fight with Babylon. So Babylon's mentioned in the Bible a lot, and Babylon is a term that Keresh took from the Bible to apply to modern-day US authority. So this is what he was saying to them before this time is like, Babylon's going to come for us, they're going to come in tanks.

They're going to come in with big armies and they're going to surround us, right? There's going to be fire. So this just played right into that. So people go on, the Dominions go, no, he's what he's prophesied is coming true. If they just took him out outside, he's on his run, they pick him up and take him away. None of that comes true. So that's not confirming everything that he's been saying. Political scientists, Michael Barkin, has since noted that by assaulting the group directly,

the government confirmed their prophecies and reinforced their beliefs, sort of saying they're, so this is what they were preparing for. Right, now they're probably prepared to die a bit more. Yeah, they're like, oh, this is God saying this is all right. This is the end, okay? All good? Yeah, we're, you know, the other side of this is everlasting life. You know, judgment day is coming. We stick with, obviously, the guys on God's side,

where we go to heaven forever. And that's obviously a very powerful thing to combat against when you have now sort of helped prove to them that you are the bad guys. What followed was basically unprecedented in America. A 51-day standoff between the FBI who would take an over from the ATF and the branch to videians. 51 days. It is also said to be unprecedented as it was the first time the US government used large scale military

force on its own citizens. So they bring in more tanks, helicopters. Well, let me tell you, this is from from the New Yorker article I was talking about before, talking about the epic size of the operation. The FBI assembled what has been called probably the largest military force ever gathered against a civilian suspect in American history. Ted, 10 Bradley tanks, two Abrams tanks, four combat engineering vehicles, 668 agents in addition to six US customs officers, 15 US Army personnel, 13 members of the Texas National Guard, 31 Texas Rangers, 131 officers from the Texas Department of Public Safety, 17 from the McClennan County Sheriff's Office, and 18 Waco police for a total of 899 people. Sorry Jessica, should have been one more. But the logistics of that is crazy.

Okay, here are the first things that I thought of. First of all, 51 days inside the house, surely you don't have enough food. Second thing I thought for some strange reason in my head I imagined it was of nine to five kind of thing and that the officers all went home. I was like, do they just leave the tanks there? And I was like, it's probably a shift thing. I reckon they're probably there. I think that's why there's so many. They're caught on the clock. They're not all there at once. Can I just ask are the branch to video and still working their day jobs? Should I just talk? Sorry.

Are you calling in sick for 51 days? Because you're not getting that job back. Sorry, Trevor, I've got to go do a shift down to the gun shop. So if you could just let me through the gate here, I'll be back later. Don't worry. I'll be back later to shoot at you. I'll do my shift.

That's wild. Yeah. And so the biggest number I heard from people inside is like 150, but it ended up being less than that. It was like 81. It was like 81. Whoa.

Yeah, I just, I can't even picture it. So, he's preaching to them, it's gonna be, like to start in a sound biblical, like in proportion. So, you look out and you see all that, plus a swarm of media. It's just so much going on out there, helicopter sweeping overhead, tanks in the distance. You're like, this feels like what he's been preaching

to us that was gonna happen. Yeah, you'd be like, this is a super important thing. A time, that's how I say team. Anyway, I'll say team so you guys can I'm saying. Thank you. A team of trained FBI negotiators will flow into the scene. And over the following 51 days, they spoke with the Davidians via a phone day and night. Much of this was recorded and excerpts feature heavily in the documentaries I've

been watching highlights were also repeated at press conferences and media broadcasts at the time. The huge bank of media outlets set up outside the compound, most probably expecting the siege to go for a day at most. Usually, someone say, usually a siege like this would last a half a day to a day. That's a longish one. So none of them was expecting it to go on. As it went on and on, there were footage of people coming basically looking at it like a tourist. Spot people go in there and take photos out the front and just went for so long. There was still fear at the front of the way.

Saturday night live. We're doing sketches with featuring David Kuresh. What? Taking brides and stuff as well. Yeah, isn't that good? Can you do that without knowing the outcome? Yeah, like these people, when they had the soccer kids stuck in the tie boys in the cave, you can't do comedy about them. It's big news, but until they're out safe,

till it's done, just in case, not gonna age well if things go bad, which I think they might. Yeah, so isn't that, yeah, when I saw, that's what I had that thought it was, I was like, holy, that would just so comfortable with it being, this is just what it is, it's going on for nearly two months. The tourist attraction, like taking photos of it.

Imagine, it's on for, by the seventh week, everyone's just like, wow, this is just how we live now. Yeah, it just becomes, that's becomes normal. It almost gets to the point where it ends and people like, ah, is that over? It's too long. That's insane. Yeah, I mean, I've become kind of obsessed with all this this week and I don't know,

it makes me feel different. I'm feeling sad about it all all the time. It's so fascinating, but it's so, it's such a sad story. Which continues. It does, yes. We'll be on the halfway mark. I mean, we're the Siege is in there. Yeah, we're in Siege.

But what are we on day two of 51? Yeah. I'm not going to go day by day. Day three. I was seen taking a shit. I got to the start of the scene in the report. I thought they only saw him once. Do you take a shit like once a week?

No, they only saw him once and then he went, oh, I probably closed the window. But the shit was assumed to be on the day. Yeah, yeah. I love that. So it just makes me think of one of my favorite episodes of The Simpsons, Home of Bad Man, where he's accused of touching the baby sitter inappropriately, which turns out he hasn't done.

The gummy Venus tomorrow. Actually, you can't have gotten it. Farsh, he has no arms. But when Kent Brockwood is watching them from the helicopter, he's like, we can only see inside this house that we had some sort of infrared camera. So let's turn it on. I assume that's home with air,

roasting in the oven, stewing in his own juice is 250 degrees. The turkey is rotating, basting. Now this technology is new to me. That's a great parody of siege. It's also it's amazing that that kind of journalism. What would you say the equivalent to that is in Australia? What program? A current affair. A current affair had the first and I believe maybe exclusive interview with David Kresh before all

this kicked off not long before. They went in and talked to him. A current affair used to be good. Did it? Yeah. Yeah. Because what a current affair actually means is a news story that can go into more detail. It has more time. Right.

So the news says what happened and when it happened. Karen affairs, well sometimes it says what happened. Other times it says like, I'm just remembering, is this using your... My journal is great. This means I can write off my journal's degree, it's tax deductible now because I've talked about it. Is that how that works?

I mean, because most people, actually, get a job. A journalist can't write it off, so. I'm pretty sure that's how it works. It's amazing that it's mentioning something you studied. Well, because I don't have a very good account. You can write it for $30,000 degree. My point is that a current affair looks at why and how. Right.

And that's what it used to be. Now it's dog shit. So in the early 90s And that's what it used to be. Now it's dog shit. So in the early 90s, that was what it was. Yeah. And I put into perspective for our overseas listeners who may not be, they probably have, I imagine we probably bought the franchise awesome. But they don't know how version of a current affair.

And I'd like to credit my good friend, Nick Yates, who used to play in a band with who once watched a current affair. And there was a story. And he told me he never forgot it. And I've never forgotten it. It was called killer driveways. It's incredible. They wrote that now these days they why I've never heard of that one. That's good sounds. They were having a good creative day that day. Normally the one the cliches are neighbor from hell. Dodgy bosses. Dodgy bosses. Dodgy sales people.

Which petrol stations got the cheapest fuel at the moment? People selling on work compensation that don't deserve it, that we've filmed, and then we harassed them down the street saying, oh, it looks like you can walk pretty well then more in. Yeah, and a lot of people put in their hand over the camera. Yeah, and then they're using that footage several times. Every time you see it, it gets slower and slower and grainyer and grainyer. So they just look inherently guilty. that footage several times, every time you see it, it gets slower and slower and grainyar and grainyar.

So they just look inherently guilty. Which is very... Then there's a graphic of like, like jail cell over the top of that person, you know. Mm, ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. But yeah, I, I like... That's the, that's, no, is 342. But the current fit, gate lock.

I studied journalism. So if you guys ever need explanation on how news work. That is so great. That is really handy, because I did study media and communications. But it's not quite the same. I majored in communications and criminology. But it's not.

That doesn't mean you understand different types of news. That certainly doesn't. I appreciate that. I'm just here if you need me. And I work on a new show and I didn't know that. So. And now that you've mentioned that, kind of right. You can run it if you're Hicks.

My job is now taxiductful. Your job is taxiductful, yes. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Is Jess Jen explaining to us? I think she might be, but I appreciate it

because I didn't know it. There was a, there was a, I don't know, you might not have seen this just, but recently someone shared on this podcast saying that they've annoying our soy boys and that this is fire and iTunes reviews. They thought I was, they thought I might have been joking until I talked about man spaining like it's a real thing. I know I'm just lightly obsessed with, I've been laughing all week about the term soy boy. It's so funny. Can I work that into the show?

Yes. What does that mean? I had to look it up on an urban dictionary. It means you drink so much soy that you're becoming more feminine. You're not a real man anymore, because you drink real milk. Oh, and then you explained man's planning as if it was a thing.

Why I just mentioned it was a real thing., I just mentioned it like it was a real thing. Like it was because it's not a real thing is what they're trying to say. Yeah. Oh, they're our target demographic. No, I'll be losing weirdo listeners. Good. That's great. If you're listening now, why?

I love being called... And fuck off. And from the soy boys here. Great to have you here. It's not a podcast. Soy boys. So boy. So I wasn't just You can be a soy boy. I can be a soy boy. Is it B.O.I? No, it should be should be should be should be so boys There's our matching tat

Soy boys B.O.I. Z S.O.I Be aware, Zed. So I. Let's make it unreadable. Let's, let's crash the fuck out of it. So anyway, fuck, that was a tangent. The, so we're talking about the conversations, the negotiators were having with crash and other, other, other leading dividends. I was this one guy I found he was seem so reasonable

in the clips that were being played. I did, I should say one of the documentaries I watched was from the other, it was like a kind of a more on the conspiracy side of things. Oh, that's good. So when he's on the phone, he doesn't sound like a mad man. No, he sounds super reasonable. And he's sort of, at times times he's sort of like come on

guys let's you're not being ludge you know he's sort of they but I'll talk about that a bit as well because I think they they misjudged what their faith was they were thinking they were brainwashed for and maybe they didn't realize that they were just full believers like they came to that themselves right so they thought they could maybe talk some of them out of it. Yeah, they didn't, they thought that they could, yeah, break them out of the spells. Guys, you come out, we'll give you chockies.

Ooh, you get to see, Jess, I'm a true believer. What kind of chockie? How well do you know? I mean, that's the question. Soy. Get fucked. Soy boys, I reckon you know. There it is, that's the question. Soy. Get fucked. Soy boys. I mean, you know, there it is.

Mint chock chip. Yeah. That's ice cream, but also chocolate with mint. I mean, just reverse engineered Dave. Yeah, that's my favorite. I had to be there for your friends. I had some in the car on the way here. There's usually a block in my fridge.

I was about to say the one thing that I know about Maddie is you have to put the chocolate in the fridge Yeah, but the fridge ideally dark, but I think an old man. It's a crime against humanity. Yeah, well, I think two against one I think when you guys get to my advanced age you'll start appreciating dark chocolate Perhaps someone was telling me that the older you get the more fucked things have to taste Did you taste your taste but the dying, so you- You're just eating sardines. It's like, I need, give me that, give me the worst you got.

Yeah. Because it's sort of taste subtle to me. And you'll have a piece you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's so bitter. And I'm like, I'm getting something cardboard. So some say one of the FBI's crucial mistakes was mischaracterizing the dividends as Brad and Wash hostages as I was saying.

Doyle begins his book, I talked about Doyle, the Melbourne long term. Yeah, that's right, from the 50s. He begins his autobiography about his connection of the church by saying, most people think cult about us and think we are people who are brainwashed and deceived. They think our church members don't know what they're doing or where they're going. Hopefully, my story can open their eyes. He wrote a whole story about his whole journey

finding the faith through the siege and everything. whole journey, finding the faith through the siege and everything. The FBI certainly seemed to see that way. The New York article, which was titled, How Not to Negotiate with Believers, quotes the work of religious scholar Nancy Amaman, who interviewed many of the FBI hostage negotiators involved. And she says that nearly all of them dismissed the religious beliefs of the dividends. For these men, David Kuresh was a sociopath and his followers were hostages. Religion was a convenient cover for Kuresh's desire to control his followers and monopolize all the rewards for himself. So a lot of the FBI tactics which are trying to break this brainwash hold, they believed Koresh held over them.

According to the New Yorker, the FBI trained spotlights on the property. They set up giant speakers to blast the noise day and night. The sound of rabbits being killed. Warp up. What is that sound like? Sorry, Matt, the other perfect person to ask. What does it sound like when you kill a rabbit? How it, so So it depends on how they're being killed. Chainsaw. Okay. So I'll mute out the chainsaw and you're just going to hear the rabbit. Is that what you want?

Yes, please. Otherwise, I'm just going to give you the sound of a chainsaw. Yep, yep. And I'm sure I've already done that before. Of course. So chainsaw muted. Okay. And I should say also that I am an animal lover. This is not a real rabbit.

No, no. No rabbits were harmed during this sound. And that time I went spotlighting, no rabbits were harmed at night. I don't think. Rabbit, pink or white chainsaw. Science, chainsaw. Well, I saw a rabbit. I saw a rabbit.

I saw a rabbit. I saw a rabbit. I saw a rabbit. I saw a rabbit. I saw a rabbit's a lot slower death than I would have imagined. Yeah, with the chain, so I would have thought we would be a quick death, but okay. It's funny what happens when you take out the big sounds and your tune in. So they're playing that sort of speaker 24-stars? On and off. Yeah, they're also playing warped up music. They're playing Nancy Sinatra singing these boots

are made for walking. And everyone hates that song famously. To bet, once chanting. Did we not play that in the car one time on our tour? We did. That's part of our big playlist. Yeah, we did. We did. You keep saying you got something for me. So the way we did it while we were trying,

we were drawing around. We went, all right, this is a theme. Each of us has to pick a song in this theme. We're making this endless Spotify playlist. One of the themes was footwear. Yeah. And that's where that came from. I chose that theme because I was thinking of that song.

It's a great song. But we are thinking about Jessica Simpson for some reason. And she did a cover of it and then I thought, I won't play the Jessica Simpson version. I'll choose the original. And that's the backstory. Good story. And well told. Thank you. Christmas carols, telephones ringing. And so who's in charge of that? Like who's going, all right, now

let's put on three hours of telephones ringing. All right, Robert's dying. We'll have 20 minutes of rendez-m-c before we'll have five in silence and then we'll come back and hit them with a sound of a toilet flushing really bad. And then a... Doooo! Someone at the FBI, I guess. That's someone's job. So there's the tactical arm and then there's the negotiators. And it sounds like the communication between those two wasn't so good because in interviews with some of the negotiators years after, they spoke of how they were frustrated

that the tactical arm of the FBI would sometimes act in ways that would contradict their agreements with the dividends. They'd be like, all right, they feel like they're working towards resolution, and then the tactical arm would come in and do some more strong arm stuff. They're like, hey, I thought we were trying to resolve this peacefully. And then all of a sudden, why are your tanks, you know, why are you doing these aggressive maneuvers like this? They cut off their water. They were living on what fell from the sky basically. They put out buckets, catch rain, and and share that out amongst the hundredish people. And they're still keeping kids. Including newborns.

And it's perfect. There he is. Yeah, it's just a nightmare. Oh, all of it sounds like it's, which is what they're trying to make it. I suppose they're trying to get them to leave. But the problem is they think they're dealing with some brainwashed people who'd be like,

oh, this is fuck. But if you're dealing with people who believe this is the end of the world, and they believe you're signaling it with your army, then they're only going to go, look, this is only a matter of time, and this is all going to come. It's going to wade it out. Yeah. Who cares about thirsty? I'll just wait. So then they didn't, I don't think they understood that properly. So it seemed like they were just willing to wait and wait because they thought that they were doing what God wanted them to do. Agreements were also broken from Kuresh. As well, Kuresh at one point said that he would surrender

if a recording of his teaching was played over the national radio. And the FBI organised for this to happen on a Christian radio station, but we're very disappointed to find that afterwards, Kresh had a change of heart saying that God told him that he wanted him to stay after all. Which is tricky because you'd be like, I mean, okay, yeah, it's very hard to argue with that. So obviously all the FBI needs to do is speak to God, get God outside.

Oh, that's so true. They gotta turn the speakers to the heavens. Blast some run DMC, get his attention, then ask him to tell Kharash to knock it off. Yeah. So like when you're sibling is hitting you and you say, Ma, ma, ma, she goes,

Michael in my example, because my brother's name is Michael. Oh, right. So it's not always going to be Michael. No, it's not. No, your mum might say something else. Unless your sibling is also Michael, then that was very relatable for you.

And you were like, wow, it's like Jess knows my past. Few people at home are really being like, wow. Like say, for instance, Gregory Jordan, he's probably thinking that. Yeah. Also Gregory Jackson. Yeah. Gregory Schumacher. Schumacher's another one.

Man, that's a little so Gregory. The angel. Gregory Finnegan. Yeah. The one who's a man. Yeah. Here on his chin again. Gregory Tyson. Yeah. Excetera. It's very relatable for all of those Gregory's. Gregory Myers. Yeah. and also Gregory Myers. He's in behavior and rhapsody Gregory Myers. No, he's brother. Oh Tim Mice. Fuck Big family. Mark After discussions with his lawyer, Koresh again promised he would vacate the compound with his followers. This time he said it would happen after he wrote about his explanation of the Seven Seals. So this is that section of the book of revelations in the

Bible. So what's the deal? Sorry, he'll vacate if he'll if they they just need to let him write about his explanation of the Seven Seals. He feels like he's cracked it with and cracking the code of the seven seals their belief in the Davidians and other areas of Christianity is that once those codes are cracked that helps bring that opens up a document that brings on the Second coming of God and in turn judgment day end of the world of God and in turn judgment day end of the world. Something like that. So, basically, he's saying, let me bring on the end of the world and then we'll quit.

Well, I mean, he's saying, yeah, I guess in his mind, he's like, if you let me do this part, then I'll come out and from their point of view, they're like, yeah, right about it, not believing that that will actually come in the world. So, I'd imagine if they did happen, they'd egg on their face. They would. They feel like it was a wave and almost just a sea. It's now it's the end of the world. Whoops. Sorry everyone We you're he really called out blotters. We really screwed the pooch on this one What's that saying? But I don't like that image. No, same with and we're not here to fuck spiders. Yeah, love the saying

No, same with when we're not here to fuck spiders. Yeah. Love the saying, strange image, especially little spiders. Yeah, I mean, even big spiders. Good. Jess is acting out, sex with a spider. Which is a humping. Oh, humping a tiny one. Holding it by two of its eight legs, I assume.

No, good, Jess. Good. No, good. I'm sorry. I'm sure we've talked about this before, but where I grew up, and it sounds like it was a very limited Application of this version of it was we're not here to fuck fish. I think it's much more pleasing Yeah, sexually

No, just the the eliteration Right, I thought of course sex with the fish as we all know is much better than sex with a spider. I'm not gonna go there. As we all know. Dave, we don't all know that. I'm sorry, it's your family. Matt, we all know that. Come on. I'm not gonna be drawn on this.

We've all fucked a fish. Is that true? Yes. Wait, a shark fish is? Matt, for arguing, say, yes. Alright. Can you get them at a fish and chip shop? Then it's fish.

Okay. Yes. Snitzelburgers, fish. Fedgy burger with the luck. Fish! Uh... Bottle of Coke. Fish. Tiny little sashave to my resource. It's actually fish.

I didn't know that. I did not know that. I didn't know that either. Anything you could get from a fish and chip shop is fish. I love it. Yeah. Jarra pickles. Fish.

I'm cleaning the jar. Yeah, that's a fish jar. Hahaha. Uh, so, so they've made this new deal, but this time, apparently, the FBI were unconvinced, sort of, not fully believing that he'll keep his word and thinking that maybe he's just dragging him along, and they were starting to get impatient. I would too, I reckon. This is from history.com.

Though initially reluctant, Attorney General Janet Reno ended up approving a plan to fire CS gas, which is a form of tear gas, into the Mount Carmel compound to try to force out the dividends. Just after 6am on April 19, 1993, FBA FBI agents used to especially equip tanks to penetrate the compound and deposit some 400 containers of gas inside. 400. Wow. And the footage of this is also full on. So the tanks come in. So they think, so talking to some of the people from the inside, they're like, I thought we were this resolved going to end. They were talking, basically, the negotiators

are talking about resolving this. And all of a sudden these tanks are coming in with these huge extended arms and it's just ripping walls down. Well, so it's putting a hole in the wall so the tea guys can go in there. Yeah, but they're just shredding walls open. Oh, I was watching it.

I'm sure they must have been more science-y, but it's like, how are they doing this? How do they know what's on the other side of these walls? Yeah. Yeah, structurally what's happening? What's happening under there? Where are the people in there? It's just, they had a pretty good idea of where everyone was situated. They had that sort of information, I guess, from their inside man, we'd escaped out and

also they had people who'd been, who'd left, who probably is spoken on, but, yes, still, how do you know where everyone is at any time? Just, that's just like, that's pretty... I'm not even sure where Dave is right now. He's... He's just like, oh, that's true. My proof of vision is a very good. Yeah.

Now, excuse me for a moment, while I turn my head to the right. Right. Okay, now there's Dave. I'm here. But I'm not sure now where Matt is. I'm looking at him. I'm gonna look somewhere in the middle

and I can kind of see both of you. My point is, how could they have no? That's true. Is this trading as Dave? Is this trading as... Yeah. Dave? To me, that sounded like you were giving evidence in court.

In summary, Irana, they couldn't have known. And like, porting for applause, but it's court, so that's not giving it. Jury, come on, that was pretty compelling. Come on, fking the mic. Yeah, hello. So sing on. So, you get this?

Sorry, um, did you hear? That was the best statement I've ever made. What a statement. This is good stuff. I'm so sorry. People, all right, so there's a tank ripping down walls. It's crazy. And then they're. I'm so sorry. People. All right, so there's a tank ripping down walls. It's crazy.

And then they're loading it with the tear gas. Tear gas. So at this stage, Bill Clinton is the president. Attorney, he's a point, I'm pretty sure he appointed Janet Reno as Attorney General. It was maybe even during the siege. It was like, she's only new-ish in the job. Right on. It's a real tough call to make. She's okay. She had to give the okay

She did that apparently Apparently at first they wanted them to wait it out. Why aren't you waiting it out? And the FBI like we've tried that we're worried about what's going on in there Is he abusing kids or all these other things that've got weapons? Are they going to, is it going to be a mass suicide? We think we need to act now. And that, I think that eventually convinced him and Bill Clinton, I read him say or someone quoting him as saying, all right, if you think this is the best way to go, then let's do it. That's what he said to her and then she okayed it

So they they wear a lot of the fallout from all of it lands on them because you know, they're at the top They're the ones who gave it the green light, but I mean Nearly no one comes out particularly well from this so they've smashed walls in they've Plowed in the the gas they're thinking this will mean they'll leave, right? But that was not enough because they believed that this is the end times. This is just another signal of the end times coming. Not pleasant. No. Apparently, there were gas masks in there.

And if you had them on, the gas wouldn't affect you. There were no gas masks. Did anyone have them on there? Yeah, I think plenty of the adults did but there weren't any appropriately sized for the kids. Oh, gosh, they're the ones being affected. Yes. And there's some red some places saying that the FBI knew this, that there were gas masks, but I mean, I don't know if it's, you know, and all of this feels like, it's, it's all, it feels like there's nothing that's clear.

I mean, the official line of it is that, I'll talk about that soon, but there's still a lot of debate, and a lot of people still distrust. There's like lead to a lot of distrust in the government At around midday three fires and this is where it gets real fuck three fires Started in separate separate areas of compound simultaneously and gunfire was heard inside It was a particularly windy day and the fire tore through the property Really quickly it just went down real quick

On the video, there's a I think it's a propane tank or something explodes on the property. It just It just burns up. It's quite a big property and it it all just goes and Of the 85 men women and children in the compound that day only nine made it out alive. Whoa Holy shit! Yeah. So the fires, what were they? The fires, it's all there's still debate about this, but basically it seems like they lit the fires themselves.

And even there's a Davidian who survived an Australian guy called Graham Cratic, and he spoke to Channel 9 earlier this year, and he said, and there's a guy who still fully believes, caressures the chosen one and he's going to come back, right? This is what he said. He said, I looked over to the side and there was someone with a fuel container and they were spilling fuel on the floor of the chapel. I then hear someone call out from upstairs again, they said, light the fire. Right.

Three simultaneous. That's not an accident. That's right, yeah. 76 bodies were recovered, including 25 children. Many were found to have died from smoke inhalation, some from fallen debris, and there were quite a few also who died from gunshot wounds, including Kuresh. An article on independent.co.uk,

posits a theory that as the flames and federal agents approached, some dividends fired their leader Kuresh as an order to commit suicide and took their children with them. Every aspect of Waco seems to be contested. The independent other newspaper describes a Waco siege and the events that led up to it as they say in some ways a fatal, it was a fatal collision of things that have helped make and occasionally threatened to break America. Waco combined God and guns, the right to religious freedoms and the right to bear arms,

with the fear that federal government would remove those rights and federal governments fear of its more extreme citizens. It saw a government acting partly out of fear of domestic terrorism and bark on a siege that would come to support narratives later exploited by domestic terrorists. Because in some quarters,

correction the Davidians were motorized as a community of Godfearing, if unconventional Christians, whose freedoms should have been guaranteed by the US Constitution, but who were instead killed by an evermore controlling government. So that's how it's saying by the people, people are already distrusting the government, sort of see this big event as like, well, this is just proof that the government, they're not looking after us. They're using army force against us. Obviously, that's, you know, that is taking a black and white perspective on it all, and

others on the opposite side would say, tell it very, very different. But also it just shows it's just a, it's already a real tense sort of scenario and I mean, I and I it's weird talking about all this political American politics from here because I obviously have no idea What I'm talking about I only what I've been reading and it just feels like it even now it's still people are still I Wouldn't be surprised if some of this sort of stuff rolled into what ended up with Trump and people distrusting classic government and that's why they went with this outside and Trump again, don't know what I'm talking about, so I should shut the fuck up. One of the domestic terrorists the independent was talking about was a man named Timothy

McFay. Probably know his name. I blame a city. Probably know his own. Oklahoma City. Yes. Two years to the day after the Waco Siege ended on April 19, 1995, he blew up the Alfred P. Murrow Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people in what he saw as a revenge attack for the events on Waco. It wasn't a coincidence, apparently, that was a direct response. Oh, the two years, yeah. The response, yeah. Right, wow.

So he, yeah, he, Waco, kind of, in part, radicalized him, you know, someone who's come to that, who knows. Yeah, right. Wow. The conversation.com reported that the US president at the time, Bill Clinton reacted to criticism of the government's handling of the siege by expressing incredulity, incredulity, incredulity. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. You know that word that I'm trying to say, that anyone would suggest that the

Attorney General should resign because some religious fanatics murdered themselves. An independent inquiry into the events was ordered by a Tony General, Janet Reno in 1999. And this happened. Six years later. Yes, so there were inquiries in Congress and stuff. But this was the first big one.

And this happened because it was revealed that some of the tear gas used by the FBI was a flammable despite officials having denied this for the previous six years. So it came to light that that it was, so they're like, all right, we need to do a big investigation. So this led to a 10-month investigation headed by a former Republican Senator John C. Danforth. And the fact that the investigation was headed by a Republican was significant, as Bill Clinton was a Democrat. And I'm guessing they knew that it would look

south if they had it headed by a Democrat. So they got a Republican Senator in or an extra Republican Senator in. And when he releases report down fourth-told journalists, I give you these conclusions with a hundred percent certainty. So ten months and he's like, this is how it went down. This is what he said, that responsibility for the tragedy rests with certain members of the branched of Indians and their leaded David Kuresh

adding, this is not a close call, concluding that Kuresh and certain branched of Indians set fire to their own compound. He said, there's no doubt in his mind. That's what happened. He said, there's no doubt in his mind. That's what happened. He said, people should answer for the lies and hiding about the fact that they use the flammable gas canisters, but that shouldn't distract people from the findings that it was 100% the responsibility of David Kuresh, but I mean, despite that finding 18 years ago, the debates

still rages on. Yeah, right. But officially, I mean, so in some ways, this is a mystery, but... And the nine survivors, any of them charged with any offences or anything? Yes, so they all did. They were all charged. Well, this is from the New York Times in 1994. Ignoring police feloniency from the defendants

and the four women of the jury that convicted them. A federal judge today sentenced five branched to Indians to 40 years in prison for their roles in a shootout near Waco in February 1993. That was the initial shootout. And it goes on to say that Judge Walter S Smith of Federal District Court handed down sentences ranging from five to 20 years for three other defendants, and the eight were collectively ordered to pay fines and restitution to the government of more than $1 million.

Right. When, yeah, it's such a, I don't know. So you know what I mean? I really don't know. About, like, all I know is it's a fucking sad story. So the conspiracy theorists will tell you that the FBI started the fight and sort of drive them out. Is that sort of what? Yeah, they say that.

You think, I mean, the DX Republican Senator, you know, he talks about it. It's like there's no doubt in this. What is clear is it's very sad that probably would never have happened if they just arrested him out on Iran or something like that. And can I just clarify? So why would they have arrested him anyway? Was it the gun stuff?

It was the gun stuff was what they were going. Cause I mean, they were the people who they were doing. Yeah. Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Yes. So they, I mean, their jurisdiction was gun. Sure.

So they're like, he's got too many guns. Too many guns and maybe he's doing things to them that's not legal. Right. So all of this happened because of that. Yeah. And they, but then obviously the siege then happened because of the gunfire.

But also, I believe they use some of the, the underage sex stuff, I think was used to convince the higher ups to give the go ahead for more action and stuff. But still, that's, yeah, that seems like such a huge thing to happen. When you're right, like, he went for a run by himself, just like put some surveillance on it. I was, I mean, and they, which they had done.

So they had people arrest him. I just don't get it. Just arrest him. Go knock on the door and arrest him. This feels like a topic that was over our heads here. I think that's most topics over mine. Well, no, that's a super interesting topic. Tragic, but very interesting. Yes. Can see why people requested it. Yeah, so many people. So thanks for all that. I mean, that is, yeah, that's just going to be rolling around my head for a while.

I imagine, because we do have a lot of American listeners. And I imagine they're a lot closer to all this. And I imagine they would probably be very familiar with that story. Yes, and probably have, yeah, I imagine that in part, that would have been very frustrating to listen to an Australian doofus fumble through it, but. How interesting. I actually hadn't heard of it.

When you said it was something that happened in the 90s, I was like, I can't think of anything, but I reckon when you say it, I'll go, oh, of course. And then you said it, and I was nah. No, I never heard it either. And it, yes. Which I always feel weird when it's things that have happened in my lifetime. I'm like, I should have been paying more attention.

But it's very early on. Yeah. It's also super hot in here. It is quite hot in here. Well, let's, let's finish the episode. Yeah. Finish the episode as we always do. Great report, as just just said.

But we have a little bit of Patreon business to do right now. I should just say quickly, I've just found, so I've just found the post on the Patreon group, it was Will Ross who suggested on there, and I don't think he was on my list before. But yes, we do a little Patreon thing called... thing called fact. Oh, the question time gets more fact quote or question. Yes. And my wife comes about is if you you can support the show by going to Petron.com slash do go on pod giving us a little pledge every month, which is very, very nice.

And in exchange, you get rewards like two bonus episodes that no one else here is. We've just sent out some Christmas cards to a bunch of people on our nice list, not the naughty list Sorry, everyone on that list, but you did miss out and Of course, we thank people one aim which we'll do in a minute But there's also the fact quote or question where Matt what are people get to do? Oh, well, I get to Give me a fact quote or question. Oh, and I'll read out the fact or the quote all the question that they give me They also get to give themselves a title.

And also on this same level, they are the ones who voted for this week's topic. So that's on the Sydney Shahnberg level. This week it is Joe Smith has sent in a fact, quote, or question. It's a question. And he's given himself the title, project manager of Matt's Kick-R's beard. By the way, I still need the new growth numbers so that my team and I can try to optimize growth for next year.

I'll get them on your desk by the morning. Well, that's a year-long project. Yeah. We've got to have the AGM. Talk about that beard. Joe's question is, and this is his third entry in the factor quarter question. Joe Joe. He was there from the very begin. Yeah. Yeah. Go Joe, a lot of that. He says, Australia is known for having something that can kill you around every corner. There's just seven, eleven. Besides, besides a worked worked up pop, oh man we both met the same joke, you're me Joe.

Does he mean worked up like excited or worked up like angry or what is he doing by that? I mean I could even read to them in the sentence. Besides a worked up pop after saying the name Bindi Erwin. Okay, angry he means. What's the not excited? So his question is, what's the craziest Aussie creature you'll have come in contact with? Oh, brown snake. You'd have to be a snake for me too. Brown snakes are bad. Mine would be...

I have a really boring name, but they're quite deadly. Mine would be a tiger snake, and I think that probably the top two, deadliest ones in Australia, are the... My dad nearly broke my mom's arm. The time we saw a brown snake. Say again, sorry? My dad nearly broke my mom's arm. The time we saw a brown snake. Say again, sorry. My dad nearly broke mom's arm.

By jumping out of fry. Because we're in like, we're on a bushwalk up in Final Thquingsland and a snake slithered across the path. We think it was a brown snake. Unless somebody then goes, Oh, brown streaks aren't in Final Thquingsland? I don't know, it was a snake. And a snake came across the path

and mom was walking in front of Dad so he grabbed her and pulled her back to like protector but she, the next day, she was like, oh, really? You grabbed her so hard. She was bruised and really sore and he was like, I'm sorry. She was, I mean, he was trying to protect her,

so she wasn't mad. Okay. That haven't spoken since. Made for 40 years this week. Yay, mum and dad. I'm on it. Did not speak the last 15. Yeah, it's been a bit awkward at home.

I'm on Australia's Australian geographic list of deadliest snakes in Australia, top 10. Number one is the Eastern brown snakes. So your dad did a great job. And Eastern. Queensland is East. That's right. So, yeah, that's probably my most matte watered yours. Mine, I've come across snakes,

but I don't remember ever, I couldn't tell you what color they were. Maybe a beige brown. Okay. 10. 10. A 10 snake. 10, yeah, some like, some like snake.

Oh yeah. Now, I would say mine would probably be a spider, maybe a funnabob or they're pretty bad on there. Yeah, that is worse. It can be, yeah. The worst, okay, great. Well, I'll... Even little red back something, nice, if you'd be fine.

Pretty sure of, I mean, it's like you're trying to Google them, but you never know. You can normally, there's something that look like the ones with the big, what do you call the big, the bulbous thing? Yeah, big butt. The big butt. Back and a hoop back there. Yeah, all right, we'll find a way with that's bad.

That's, I thought that was pretty. Somebody else recently, and I think it was someone on our UK tour who was thinking about moving to Australia and they're like, but I'm just scared. Like, is it safe there? And I thought that was quite a cute question because we three live in the city. So there aren't just brown snakes.

Like, it's very sad. I'm likely to get a snake. You get the same, yeah. You get the same amount of insects and just life is you would in any city. But if you go out into the middle of nowhere, yeah, there are some things that can happen. That's true though.

We've, snakes weren't that uncommon. I went to school in Warrondite near the Yarra River. I had a lot of target snakes there. But I mean, having said that, I saw a few in my time in house. It's not, it's not daily. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so if you are scared of Australia because of that reason, you're fine.

It's not a day to day thing you're thinking about. I mean, it'd be fun if it was. It's not a day to day thing you're thinking about. I mean, it'd be fun if it was. It's like a biweekly thing you're thinking about. Yeah. But in different places, you see, you can look at compilation videos of snakes been pulled out of people's kitchens and stuff. Yeah.

But they normally look in much sunnier places than Melbourne. Yeah, we're fine here. Yeah. We're going to visit our buddy. Yeah, we're fine here. Yeah, concrete jungle. Yeah, if you buddy, but he concretes eggs, that's all. But if you get a body, a body, a door snake, they're very terrifying. Yeah, they bloody, they bloody keep the draft out. Keep the good times in. The good times being heat. Yeah, warmth.

And the other, the other Patreon bonus that we do at the end of the episodes is we think a few of our fantastic Patreons. Oh, absolutely fantastic. And normally when we do it, Jess comes up with a little game for us to play. Maybe some sort of a title we can give him or some other such thing. It is a little hard with a cult kind of. Yeah, I mean, I want to give them a cult name. Well, you can maybe work off Joe's deadliest animal thing.

Oh, I love that. Yes, let's give them a deadly animal. They're the, an example of the what type of deadliest animal in the world. So we've talked about some of the deadliest snakes, deadly spiders. Yeah. What are they, the Deadliest version? Correct. Okay. Great.

Well, can I kick it off by thanking from Devon in the United Kingdom. Oh, beautiful. Devon! This is what I used to date a Devon woman. And I think she told me that you can speak like a Devon person if you say this. Ear, I use Nul's U or is that Cornish? I forget. Anyway, that you can speak like a Devon person if you say this. Ear, I use Nils you.

What was that Cornish? I forget. Anyway, that was my good attempt. Either way, try to write to you. Mr. Ross Deans, no. She, I think that was sort of encouraged to lose that accent. She had it. She said she did as a kid.

She spoke like that, but in school and stuff, they tried it. They made it out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Which is sad to me. I don't think it's a cool accent. But it's- Rosteans!

Rosteans. Deadly, yeah. Sounds like rusty. But what is it? Rosteans. Rosteans. Rosteans. Okay, well I was thinking of something else,

but if we're going rusty, now I'm thinking of the color rust. Now I'm thinking of Fox. Fox, deadliest Fox. Look, Fox. I like that, but I was thinking, as soon as're going rusty, now I'm thinking of the color rust. Now I'm thinking of Fox. Fox, deadliest Fox. Look, Fox. I like that, but I was thinking, as soon as you say rusty, there's only one person I think of, and he is a crow. Oh, the Fox Crow, that is a crow.

Oh, okay. Yeah, some sort of a Frankenstein's monster. Yeah, it's really. It's sodened together. It's gross. From bibs and bulbs. It's disgusting. Yes, it's a flying fox.

It's a crow just sewn to the back of a foxs and bulbs. It's disgusting. Yes. It's a flying fox. It's a crow just sewn to the back of a fox and they're both looking uncomfortable. Like that Simpsons thing. Yeah, that's right. The rat bird. The crow's trying to fly away, but it can't figure out why it can't and the fox is just like, oh, so this is flapping. The fox is walking and the crow's just sort of like. Yeah. Airwalking. That's horrific. Yeah. That I'm so rosteen. So rosteen. Rostunes. Who else would you like to say? I'd also love to think from Winnipeg, Canada, Craig, Heinrich. Oh, that's a great name. So close to the manoeuvre. I reckon, I reckon people in his school would have called him the manoe maneuver. That's how close it is. That's how close.

You know what? Minovers in a strange way. A centipede. The dead, the a centipede. Craig. The dead, the centipede. Craig is one of my favorite names. Craig's in the same world as Greg and Gary.

And can we just, I know in the, yeah, the analysis in America, they say Craig a lot. Craig. Yeah, do they say any counter as well? Craig? Just in case the nonsense in America, they say Craig a lot. Craig. Yeah, do they say any Canada or is it Craig? Just in case Craig, we're gonna give it to you. Just in case you also don't know how to pronounce Craig. We say Craig. We say, I mean, it's, we say it as a, we say it correctly, yes.

What really is, it's really is Craig. Craig, Craig. Yeah, but where's the E in Craig? Craig. Craig makes me laugh. Craig makes you laugh too. But that could be you, Craig or Craig Heinrich, the word's deadliest, send a beat, which in many ways is a shit snake. Can I thank some people too? That's a brown snake. Please, please, please, please, please, please, please. I would like to thank from Santa Rosa in California.

Oh, wow. Chase Stanley. Oh, boy. Fantastic name, Chase's a great name. Stanley's a great name. Thank you so much, Chase, the deadliest polar bear. Oh, they're already really deadly. That is a chase I do not want to be involved in.

Yeah. But. A beautiful in. Yeah. But. A beautiful animal. Beautiful. Extremely deadly. You know when you watch nature documentaries and they're white, they're stained with blood from them eating a seal or something, they look insane. You know what sucks, I was when you like think an animal is super cute and then you find

out that it's really vicious and you're like, aww. You'll never be able to. Like I thought they were cute. You can never hug it. And then you find out they're fucking vicious and you're like, aww. You can never be out of it. Like I thought they were cute. You can never hug it. And then you find out they're fucking monsters. And you're like, aw. And Chase is the deadliest of all of those monsters. Yeah, congratulations Chase.

You did that, Jess. I did. For you, Chase. And I would also like to thank from Ajax in I'm guessing Ontario and Canada. Yeah. Dylan Haywood. Ajax in I'm guessing Ontario and Canada. Yeah Dylan Haywood Ajax they were a footy team. We used to play against in juniors and they all had to wear helmets

so I would say He is the deadliest helmeted honey eater Victoria's state helmeted honey-eater. Victoria's, a state, faunal emblem. We have a state faunal emblem. We've got two, the helmeted honey-eater and the ring tail possum.

Oh, I like a little one. Is that right Dave? I've definitely heard of the ring tail being one. I'm in the head of the helmeted. It sounds like. See how we have a state insect. Do you really? What's that insect?

No, isn't that what you're saying? No, it's not what you're saying. That's a bird They helmeted honey it is a bird a bird honey it is a bird. Oh Come on mate. How do you know what honey it is? You know it's been bird watching you? He's heard you the first time I thought you said honey ant honey eater. I was like my right Hey, how are we do have it some state have a state, like fossil emblem and stuff. Oh wow, they go deep on some. So are we going with the helmeted honey eater? They're deadliest helmet eater.

Because I was gonna go for my uncle had a dog named Ajax and he was a boxer. Oh. But I like helmeted honey eater. Wait, but the bird boxes. It's got little gloves on it. Oh, shit, that is, it's got a helmet, the helmet, like a boxing helmet, and little gloves.

Yeah, and he's so deadly, but he's so cute. That's what I'll get you. Yeah, you're like, oh, little bird, got little gloves. Ah, ah, ah, ah, dead. Yeah, come here, I got something to tell you. Yeah, come here, yeah, come here. Oh, I'm getting a bit of, like, try to fly to fly to fly to death to tell you. Yeah, okay. Oh, cute and bad luck. Come here, come here. Try to fly to fly to fly to death.

Upper cut. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So thank you so much to Dylan. I would like to thank from Marshall in Illinois, Jennifer Wellver. Oh.

That is not, I go together so well, isn't it? That's not true. Or Williva. Well, I'm sorry. Well,'t it? That's not true. Or will either. Well of a sense. Jennifer Williver. I love her. Who? As a tribute to what I was thinking just then is the world's deadliest ant.

Oh. Just a common ant. Just a common ant. Oh no, just the deadliest ant. Common ant. Of the no doubt, hundreds of species of ants in the world. Because there are some, there are, are there some messed up ants? Yeah, fire ants.

Like the blants, fire ants. Fire ants. For all. But she's just, but she is a common ant, but still deadlier than all the other ants. And that's what's more impressive about that. There's also the one that they call the bullet ant, which it's supposedly so painful when you get bitten by one, it's like you've been shot.

Right. That's why they call it the bullet ant. And she's even more deadly than that. Yeah. She's like a cross between a bullet ant and a fire ant. Right. She doesn't need any of their gimmicks. She just gets the job done.

That's right. That's right. NBD. Yeah. Come at me. Deal's right. That's right. NBD. Yeah. Come at me. Deal with it. Come at me fool. Shut up.

Yeah. Thanks Jennifer Wellver. And I would like to thank finally from Birmingham in the West Midlands. Birmingham. Birmingham. We've been here. Team GB. We've been there, right?

And we, we, we never announced this, but the manager of the club did tell us that that stage of the Glee Club, Adele had once played there on her way up. Adele, Abba Adele. And I imagine that she said that. It's me here at the Glee Club, isn't it? Never mind, I'll find. Her voice doesn't match her talking voice.

A lot of change up that is. Yeah. Adele, Abba Adele. Jio's, sorry, we probably listened to that home. I probably should have said full disclosure at the top there. That was me doing an impression of Adele. A lot of you probably just thinking, we'd got Adele in just for the end there.

That was, we wouldn't waste Adele's time. If we were going to get her in, she'd be doing a report about Adele. But no, that was just my tip top impression of the singer Adele. Adele. But now that was just my tip top impression of the singer Adele, surname unknown. Nobody knows. I'm pretty sure it's Gregson. Unknown Adele. Adele. Alo, Amadele. Etc. Alo, Amadele. Amadele. Did we give anything to- No, I haven't said anything to him.

From the West Midlands in Birmingham, people are like hanging out, because we have a few people from Birmingham, as we know, because they turned up there. Jack Walton. Jack Walton. Wal-ley. Doesn't that sound like a name of someone

who in the early 20th century was like some sort of, like multi-millionaire. Like Jack Walton, inventor of the world's first dish washer, Jack Walton. Yeah. 12 in his cane. Yeah, he's a bajillionaire. Jack Walton, inventor of the world's first dishwasher, Jack Walton. Yeah. 12 in his cane. Yeah, he's a bajillionaire. I'm thinking. The world's deadliest, though. What are you thinking? Walrus.

Oh, they're open to. Top two, think of another one. Now, wall. There we go. There you top two. It is a marine mammal. Yes. Yeah. That feels real good.

That's probably the best thing I've ever done. But it's, is the wall orrus number one or in the top two? Uh, let me, let me see if I can find another one. And your brain. And your brain, you may. I'm a brain. Yeah. Yeah. Just get back to the back. Just sitting through your brain here. Jesus, a lot of crossword puzzle cheat website out there. Huh? Well, what a, what this makes a mockery of the,

I mean, Dave's the one. The noble crossword game. Dave's the one. I'm pretty sure of this. Now was like the one with the, that's the unicorn of the ocean, right? What about, will you take hippopotamus? Yes.

Great. Fine. The lower insides of teeth of hippopotamususes, the heaviest of land animals never stop growing and are considered tusks. I'd consider that so. Is that a fun factor? That's a fun factor. I've found that fun.

I'm having fun with it. Jack Walton, did you, as the world's deadliest walrus, find that fun? But thank you for supporting the show and thanks to everyone we thank today and everyone that supports the show in general at Patreon. What a lovely community we are growing there. I'm just going to sing a quick jingle, naming each of them one more time. Thank you, Jack and Jennifer Dylan, Chase Sandcrag and Ross Deans. I loved that. I faced it, not express that to you. You looked at me with that look that you do. I faced it not express that to you. You looked at me with that look that you do when I'm frowning at you when you've tried

to make a joke. Oh, hang on. But what I've done there was support you. That was great. I felt really nice. I loved that. Can you do that more often? Always wondered what that would feel like to have your support, yes?

Yeah, well, it only took you three years. I think it would sound a little something like this. And I love Adele! Wow! Adele's on board. How do you feel? That feels really good, supported. Does wish we knew your last name Adele.

I'd get it just wish. It's only we knew Adele. I'm Adele Wackens. Her password says Adele. And then I feel like, oh, I don't know if this can. You should, they just look up from the password. Like, I'm so sorry Adele, of course. Oh my goodness, it's Adele.

Because it's Adele. Before she. Imagine your mom being Adele. Like she's a mom, and that kid's mom is Adele. That doesn't remind me of... That's wild. That tweet I saw from Tony Hawk, the pro skater. Yeah.

He was like, this is a corner to his story, at Customs, and they're looking at his passport. They're like, oh, Tony Hawk, that's not the name of the skateboarder. What are that guys doing now? And he's like, this boom. And then he did like a 360, I imagine. Huh? He did, like, just turned around. Yeah. In the end, yeah. And they're like, okay. They're like, I'm with us.

Why would they say I wonder what that guy's doing now? Yeah, just look like, okay. They're like, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Can you be thinking? Why would they say, I wonder what that guy's doing now? Yeah, just look up, bro. I'll just like keep that as an inside thought, you know? I don't know how those custom officials. Yeah, you never know. You never know. But I guess the fun has to stop somewhere and that time is now.

We are going to wrap up this episode, as we always do by telling you to Get in contact I'd love to hear from you at do go on pod is the The handle on all the social media's Facebook Instagram Twitter. We're on YouTube We've got a bunch of live videos there now. Mm-hmm. Yes, it's a recent tour And that's youtube.com slash do go on pod everything Everything's basically do go on pod. Yep. Search that Do go on pod dot com including that and at gmail.com Yeah, all the start lever a review on iTunes unless you're confused about soy boys

Yeah, no man case if you want to leave us a positive review with the word soy boy and that would make me laugh to know it. Was that writing like was it a low rate? That was a 1 out of 5. Amazing. Yeah, I don't know where brought there. There's so many nice ones. That's mostly nice. That one did.

I'm so sorry. Maybe all week I've been laughing about the phrase soy boy. That is such a brilliant thing. It's annoying that that person who hates us brought me so much joy. It's annoying for them because they don't want me so much joy. It's annoying for them, because they don't want to bring me joy. They hate to make me laugh. Because they...

No, I reckon that why would you have said it if you didn't want to laugh? People don't say soy, boy. I think they make you feel bad. I think they might be trying to bring us down, but it really brought me up to a new level. Yeah, I've never felt better about this podcast than the fact that we've angered someone.

We were gonna stop. Because we think manspl've angered someone. We were going to stop. Because they think man's planning isn't real. We'll never stop now. We'll never stop man's planning because it's real, baby. I've vented. What is? Man's planning. Let me explain it to you quickly.

I'm looking into it. I'm sound I wonder. Genuine, let's talk about it off the podcast. We'll talk about it off, but thank you so much for listening. Let me spline it to you off the pot. And let me just give a little sizzle here. We'll be back next week with our special annual Chris Mish episode.

Woo! So keep your eyes peeled for that. It's gonna be a lot of fun. And but until then, thank you very much. And I will say goodbye. Bye. Goodbye, I'll batow. Oh. Didn't actually get to say that. And I will say goodbye! Ladies! Goodbye, I'll be down! Oh!

Didn't actually get to say that! This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit Planet Broadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want. It's up to you. Hi, icons. It's Danny Pellegrino from the Pop Culture Podcast, everything iconic, and I love Nordstrom. No place better to shop,

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