Do Go On - 171 - Lizzie Borden, Axe Murderer?

Episode Date: January 30, 2019

"Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks/When she saw what she had done, she gave her father forty-one." OR DID SHE? This week's episode is an old timey mystery, and for a pretty bleak topic, this is actually a very funny and silly episode.  Check out our website for tickets to live shows, merch and more: dogoonpod.comSupport the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSubmit a topic idea directly to the hat: http://bit.ly/DoGoOnHat Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] References and other reading:https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/how-lizzie-borden-worked.htmhttps://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/gvz7x9/hacking-away-at-our-ongoing-obsession-with-lizzie-bordenhttp://time.com/5395515/lizzie-borden-history-chloe-sevigny-kristen-stewart/https://famous-trials.com/lizzieborden/1437-homehttps://gizmodo.com/all-the-evidence-against-lizzie-borden-and-why-she-was-1721936980 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates.

And welcome to another episode of Dugo One. My name is Dave Warnocky and before me, the people that you know and love, Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Always before Dave. Yeah. Yeah. Is that good? Are you being nice or mean? Yeah, I felt like that I was standing on the altar and you're my subjects.

Oh, right. Before me. Yeah, it makes sense. that you would feel that way. Or perform me on the bill. My supporting acts. There we. Oh, okay.

Before you. Yeah. Okay. He's got so much confidence for such a weird looking man. Man. Where does it come from? It doesn't make any sense.

Makes no sense. Like, you are not connected to reality in any way. That's part of the charm. I don't think Steve Boshimi has this much confidence. He's a really, he's got charisma baby. Okay. He does. And who else has charisma?

Serial killers. Yeah, that's true. I was just going to say anyone but Jess Perkins. Yeah, and I'm not a serial killer or a cult leader. Is that true? Yet. Okay, thank you. I'm just putting that in there in case people are listening in 20 years and I've taken a turn, you know?

What kind of cult you're going to have? Probably like a really nice one. Yeah. A lot of you giving yourself an out there because it would be so embarrassing if you were a murderous cult leader one day to look back and realize that you said you weren't one. Can you imagine? Because like they would pull that up. in the media would have a frenzy like, oh, look, she said she wasn't. Was it a cover all along?

Just at the point of, at the time of recording, I'm not, nor do I have any intention. But I'm just saying never say never. Yeah, you reserve that right. I don't know what is possible. I could have some sort of mental snap. Yeah, if you do it most weeks. I do. I'm a roller coaster.

Wee. Well, I just rides the roller coaster. Let me tell you about some upcoming live shows. they're going to be both fun and live. Oh, the big two. Yeah. We tick both boxes. Are they going to be educational?

Well, yeah. Yeah, it's a half tick. Hell yeah, yeah. Hell yeah. We were coming to Adelaide for the first ever time. Now, people told us not to go there because of the crime rate. Is it true? No, because of...

It was because of the church rate. No, because of the fact that you don't like to buy tickets in Adelaide. We've sold a few, which we're very happy to the people that have... have bought tickets, but it is a bit lacking behind the other big cities we've been to before. So Adelaide. Plot me socks. Come on.

The listener to ticket buyer ratio could be better. Yeah. Let me just say. I'm sorry to use that kind of language. Dave's going, oi, your dickheads. And Matt's like, hey, nah, come on. No, I think it's going to be great. I mean, even if it's stopped right now, it's going to be a great fun show.

100%. And that is at March 10, the next year. National Wine Center in Adelaide. Which is going to be the hottest new hub of the Adelaide Fringe festival. Yeah, it's in a great spot looking at it on the map. I can't wait to be there. I'm going to take a Friday or Monday off because it's a Sunday afternoon and make a long weekend of it.

Adelaide Fringe, it's the time of year we're going and that is a fantastic time to be in that day. Take the Monday off Dave, please. It's a public holiday here in Vic, so yeah, you should. Really? Let's have a couple of shandies after the show. I love that. I'd go meet some of those beautiful panders.

What? They've got two panders. Have those famous pandas. What? Can I come? Yeah, they're great. Oh, you hesitated. Fine, I'll go alone.

Hey, it's between me and the pandas. Oh, okay. Big fan, big fan. We're also doing the following month. Melbourne Comedy Festival starts at the end of March, goes through to April. We're doing four Saturday afternoon podcast. Come on down. Love to see you there.

They are always some of the most fun shows we've ever done. Third year in a row. It's actually more like, come on up, because this year we're moving to upstairs. Yeah, we're leaving that basement at the same. Yeah, we're leaving that basement at the European Beer Cafe and going to the second floor. Yeah. It's going to be a lot of fun and only maybe a couple of them will go out in the feed

and a couple of them will only be able to be heard in the room. I don't be able to hurt in the room. The sweetest chef's going to be there. Absolutely right. He would be a boobitoo. Matt debuting a new character. Also, if you're up for live stuff, I'm touring my new show, Bone Dry, starting in less than two weeks in Perth,

then going to Adelaide at the Wine Center, then Brisbane at the Powerhouse, and Melbourne at the Chinese Museum. You can find out all these dates and links to tickets at matstewartcomedy.com slash gigs. And Dave Warnocky has really been whipping this show in a shape. My goodness. I have not taken off this beret in months.

He's sitting on a director. He ordered a director's chair with his name on the back. Stenciled on there. Every good bit of the show is because of him and every bad bit of the show is because I have not worked hard enough as Dave keeps telling me. I've made you feel like shit.

You really are. Whipping me, like literally whipping me in a shape. But I'm your hype man. Yeah. And I've just been sending your emojis, a little thumbs up. Yeah. Yeah, and I think you're making him weak.

And we balance you out. The little angel on one shoulder and a real asshole on the other. That's right. That dog does not deserve it. any emojis. He's not been writing enough or funny enough. Director Dave is mean. He's real mean. Hey, but the show will win awards. I guarantee it.

Wow. Okay. You're on the record, Dave. You just said that into a microphone. I don't know if you know, but that thing in front of your face is a microphone. I also will be holding an award ceremony at the end of the seasons. And one of them might be for the comedian who didn't work hard enough in his material. So you don't want to win that award. Okay.

Can there be a best hype man? There's a few people in the running. Let me just say. Who else? Who else has been hyping you behind my back? It's a secret ballot. This is bullshit. The Academy will be voted.

This is rigged. I am furious. I'm excited by the process. So lots of fun comedy stuff coming around the country. I'd love to see you at Matt's gigs or at one of our live podcast. Now, this week, Jess, it is your turn to report on a topic because that's what we do on the show here. Matt and I do not know what it's going to be, often nominated by a listener. I believe the Patreon supporters have voted what you're going to talk about.

They have. And you may have written a question. I have. That is exciting. New Year, new me. Something I should just qualify quickly is sometimes people think that you have to be a patron to suggest topics. That's not true. Anyone can suggest topics?

Absolutely. Open at all times is a little form you can find on our website. Submit a topic is the tab. It's do go onpod.com. And it's just most weeks there's a vote with patrons, but they are often voting on non-patron suggested topic. So anyone can suggest a topic. Just thought I should clarify.

Yeah, it's a good question. Which I believe was the wrong word. Oh. But looking back, I'm going to do better. I'm going to try and do better. Oh, Dave, it's working. Yeah, I'm making them a better person. I get it now.

Yeah, a piece of shit. Yeah, it's like a tough love thing. Yeah, that's right. Like a major pain thing. Yeah, I love you the moment. but I won't tell you. So forget that. It's beautiful.

Thanks, Damien Waynes. Damien Waynes. Sorry, Damien Wains. All right, I did write a question. I'm very pleased with myself for that. And I hadn't heard of this topic, so I'd be interested to see if either of you have. So my question is.

Oh, okay. I haven't got one in a while, I reckon. Who is the subject of the rhyme that I'm going to say for you now? Oh, I know this one. It's old McDonald. No. Oh, that is good, good, good. I've heard of him.

Can I say the rhyme? Oh, okay, yep. Sorry, I misunderstood the question. Who is the subject of the rhyme, old McDonald? Secretly, it was about the pig all along. This rhyme, took an axe and gave her mother 40 wax. Oh, I do know.

Forty wax with a wet noodle. Simpsons, Martin Prince. It is. Do you know this one, Matt? It's an American woman. woman. Axe. Does she rhyme with axe?

Axe. No, it rhymes with Fizzy Forden. Oh, Lizzie. Yep. What's the second bit? Fordin. Horden, Morden, cordon, cordon, doorden, Borden. Borden.

Lizzie Borden. Yeah, 40 Wax with a wet noodle. Dave, for the person who is out there tracking who's getting the most right, that one goes to me. That is a real slap in the face with a wet noodle. Lizzie Borden took an axe. and gave her mother 40 wax. When she saw what she had done,

she gave her father 41. 41 what? Oh, man. I mean, they've got to be specific in the old... So had you heard of it only because of the Simpsons? Oh, it's one of those things. It's hard to know. I know, yeah, like Tiny.

I could sum it up in a sentence. Like, that's that lady that was an axe murderer. That's it. Nice. But it might be from the Simpsons. Yeah, I think all I know about is that that rhyme or even it might even be from this show that people people have told me to read into her because I know that it's very famous in America and not really outside of America

yeah and it's a long time ago as well it's like over 120 years ago probably longer like it's a long yeah so it's hard to say for sure I definitely could but I'm bad at maths don't want to take a stab here well that's exciting because I'd love to know more about it to be honest. And obviously our patron supporters agree. Bad luck because I've researched

something else. Oh, okay. Yeah, I put a few topics up to the vote and I was surprised that this was a winner but by a relatively small margin like the next,

the second topic was behind by under 20 votes, I reckon. Yeah, right. So it was fairly tight but this was the winner and this has been suggested by Matt Hall, Mike Winkler,

Dylan Loghead and Julie Bay. Jess, we've got to stop making up people. Loghead. Just say some listeners did. If you can't back it up with real sounding names. I thought Mike Winkler was pretty good. All of those names were fantastic. They just are not real people.

Didn't we thank Mike Winkler? Yeah, look, I don't. Henry Winkler's son. I don't care how many times we thanked someone, but it doesn't make them real. Okay. You know, look, I'm thanking Mr. Sheffield again. But unfortunately, he's a fictional character. Matt, these people are now listening and having a real identity crisis.

Hang on. They're like, am I not, have I not been real this whole time? Oh, twist. There's a twist. You're doing that to them. Okay. Just as part of this little bit you're doing. Well, it's a cute little bit.

Yeah. I mean, that's assuming they exist, which they don't. Wow. So how do you listen when you don't exist? Fuck, good point, eh? Unless the, you know, the author has written that into their story. that they have the ability to listen. Yep.

Wow. I'm sorry. They're definitely real people. Great names, though. Love it. Loghead, especially. Yeah, it's a good one. Winkler?

Winkler's. Very much so good. Who else you have there? Julie Bay. Julie Bay. I mean, as if there's someone out there in the world called Julie Bay. What about Matt Hall? You've got a problem with Matt Hall?

Matt Hall. What language are you speaking? Isn't that what you would name the Grand Hall in your mansion? Yeah. Matt Hall. That's the hall where I keep all my doormats. You'll find them in Matt Hall.

Why have you got so many door mats? Why are there all the questions? Guards, take her away. That's a weird thing to have a lot of. Is it? Yeah. You're weird. Your face is weird.

Your dad's weird. That's mean. Nevada Hall, I'd have gym mats and I'd learn to do a backflip. That's how it's been. How would you learn? With a gym coach? Yeah. And a big trampoline.

Fuck yeah. I always wanted to be able to do that, but I have a bad back. Probably a harness. It's just not worth it. Not worth the risk. Anyway, so on the 4th of August, 1892. Oh, good year. Good year.

Andrew Borden and his wife, Abby Borden, were found dead in their home. Both showing signs of being struck with a hatchet. Andrew's daughter, Lizzie, was accused of the crime, was charged with their murders. However, she was acquitted. the following year as the evidence submitted against her was mostly circumstantial. This is going to be the quickest report of all time. That was great. Wow.

Yeah, loved it. That's fantastic. That was fascinating. She killed her parents, but she didn't. God, she really whizzed through that. I guess we'll never know who did it. This sucks because I was so excited to like try this new structure. And I was like, how am I going to do it?

I think I'm going to do it like this. And then we'll go back and then we'll go through. You know? Yeah. And immediately two dot points in, you've shat all over it. Oh, that's how you're starting. Okay. That's what I meant.

Sorry, it's a beautiful start. I can't wait to hear more. Well, you're going to. Great. It's probably my longest report yet. You're going to hear it. Wow. A metric fuck ton more.

Oh, that's a lot more. Metrically speaking. Yes. She and her trial became a national sensation. And she's gone down in history as a killer who got away with it. Oh. Or is she a killer? Oh.

And did she get away with her? But she definitely is a sensation. Yeah. Oh, she's a sensation. She was a bullet up the charts. Oh, gosh. So let's have a look at what happened on that day. I can't.

Where's a chart? Point to your charts. Is it near your chuff? Yeah. It's the one next to your chuff. Right. Next to. Hey, come on.

You're double barreled. Yeah. Double date. Double date, Dave. I'm a double dateer. I've got a chuff, got a chart. Which one do you want? Neither, please.

None for me. I've already eaten, thank you. Yeah, I'm okay, thank you. Okay, well, I get this a lot, it's so fine. Yet he still has that confidence. It makes no sense. Comes out of my chart. Okay.

I've got something that no one else does. All right, let's, so we're having a look. We're going back. We're going back to the beginning. Oh, I like that. Flashback. So Lizzie Andrew Borden. Well, there's your problem.

Her dad gave her his name. I'd be pissed off as well. I find that odd. I love it. She was born on the 19th of July in 1860. Because obviously, she's getting his surname as well. Yeah. I could understand maybe getting the mother's name or something to sort of have a bit of her family going on.

You've just taken both names, Matt. Yeah. A bit of a hold. Yeah. hogging it, Andrew. But maybe he was just, yeah, maybe he was just trying to mix things up a little bit. And you thought about it that way. Maybe he was.

Maybe he was very progressive. He was trying to pioneer a new thing. Yeah, maybe it's because of him that Cameron Diaz is called Cameron. Whoa. Never thought about that. And Fred Astaire is called Fred Astaire. Matt doesn't get it. That's okay.

I'll explain later. A stair. That's like a thing you climb up to go to the top floor. It's not a human name. Okay. So silly. It is silly. Yeah, I love it.

So she was born in Fall River in Massachusetts. Oh, great state. To Sarah and Andrew Borden. Andrew came from a wealthy family, but despite this, he grew up in a fairly modest surroundings. He eventually worked his way up and became very successful in the manufacturer. manufacture and sale of furniture and caskets and went on to become a successful property developer as well. He also directed several textile mills.

He owned a considerable amount of property. Directing like I do. You're shit. You're looming. It's terrible. They're like, all right. This director is, he's a real altar. He's tough, but the results speak for themselves.

Also selling furniture and coffins in the same shop. Wow, what do you want to? I don't know if it's in the same shop. I don't know if it's in the same shop. What do you want? I don't know. I don't know if it was the same shop. Maybe they were adjoining shops.

Okay. He also somehow was the president of a bank. So he was a very busy man. Wow. He does a lot. I like the idea that there's a greeter at the shop. They're adjoining. And depending on how sick or well they're looking, he'll guide them to one side of the other.

Oh, here. The coffins are for you, sir, this way. I imagine it more like a wedding where it's like bride or groom. He's like furniture or dead. But once his decision is made, you can't go back. So if you look, you're looking sickly, don't try and buy a couch because he'll put you in the funeral parlour and he will not let you leave. You better not have allergies. Hay fever and sneeze as you get to him and he's like, okay, right over here.

We've got something perfect in the mahogany for you. It's socially awkward and he puts you in the coffin section and you're like, all right, well, I don't want to make a scene. So I guess this is the end. I guess which one am I going to die in? I'm very healthy and young. That's how these work, right? You get in them and die. Yeah, eventually.

So Andrew's estate was valued at around $300,000, which is equivalent of $8.3 million today. That's good stuff. So he was a millionaire. They were very wealthy. Lizzie's mother, Sarah, died when Lizzie was two years old, and her older sister Emma was 12. Two years later, shortly before Lizzie's fifth birthday,

Andrew Borden married again to a woman named Abbey Gray. And despite his crazy wealth, Andrew Borden was known to be really frugal. Their house had no electricity and no indoor plumbing, both of which were very common for wealthy people at the time. Oh, right. So it's not like he's just, you know, going with the times.

No. He could have had it. He could have had it. It was quite common for people with money, and he had a lot of money. But it was like, nah. Sometimes that's how rich people get rich, right? They're tight-ass.

They're real tight with everything. That's how you did it, Dave. Is that? Hey. You got a tight chart? Yeah, that's another great part about having a chart. Someone to keep your cash. I plan to be more like a JK rolling type and like qualify for like richest people,

but then be disqualified because I gave so much of it away to charity. Because I'm such a good person. Right. But that's only once I'm a bagillionaire. Then I'll start to help other people. At this point, I'm looking after number one. I mean, it's not like, yeah, you're not only giving. way 1% of your wealth now.

Yeah. You'll wait until you have... What, $10? Hey, it all helps. How much would I have if $10 is 1%? That would be 100. Is that right? No.

A thousand. A thousand. $10,000? A million. Am I a million? So you said you're looking after number one? Who's that? Me.

Oh, that's a bit arrogant. In my house. You think you're number one. In the world. In my house, I said. we're at for now. Even more than the cat? I don't have a cat.

And your car? Oh, fuck, my car is pretty good. You got quite a nice couch. I actually do, I do have a good couch. The fridge works real well. No, the fridge is... And consistently. The fridge needs to go.

You're lucky to make top ten in that small apartment. You're right. My bookcase is sick, actually. Yeah, it's a beautiful bookcase. It's really nice. The toasts are very evenly toasts. I've been hanging out when you're not around. It's my toast is like a cute color.

It matches my kettle. Yeah. Oh man, those two are good They're a power couple Yeah My walk is great Yeah Oh no

Don't know if you meant that But power couple's very good Thank you Very good All right fine I'm number 10 in my own house Top 10 Top 10 well done

Yeah I know But then my boyfriend's moving in So I'm going to be 11 Oh push that Well You know I reckon you'd give him a fair run I reckon

You're doing one To be in the top 10 My place Bloody hell Who's above you They don't chart that low I chart that low You do it

And Dave, let's not forget That when you're out of the house My girlfriend is second in charge She's still like Well, I can't make any decision We also have a very nice toaster There's a fire but Dave's not here

So the place will burn You'll sit in the corner Wait for Dave to come back That is the best Anyway So yeah, they had no electricity No indoor plumbing They definitely could have

but they didn't. And the house they lived in, it was originally built as a two-family home, but it was converted when the Bordons bought it. That's hard to say. And they converted it pretty cheaply. Like they just kind of knocked out some walls and added a staircase. So it kind of resulted in a house. A fredder staircase?

He's been waiting for you to say stare for so long. There'll be other chances too. I really had not been waiting. I know. I know. Like, what are the chances he even says stairs? I'm going to say it a bit. I really thought I'd moved on.

And unfortunately, no. No, fortunately. That's the curse of Lizzie Bourdain. So they've now got some sort of double mega mansion. Yeah, it's a bit weird. So it kind of resulted in a house where Lizzie and her sister had to walk through their parents' room to get up the stairs to go to the other rooms. Like, it was a bit of a rabbit Warren kind of house. That's a bad conversion.

Yeah, you didn't think that through. They didn't play The Sims. I'm always thinking about that on the Sims. I build hallways. Architecture. You'll build hallways. Matt halls. Matt halls.

Yeah, everywhere. Ugh. Because otherwise, like, I'm not walking through my siblings room to go to the bathroom. Yeah, no good. No good. What is with that design? Yeah, that sucks. No good.

Of that hypothetical house. Where's your privacy? Yeah. What if they're wanking? Yeah, yeah. In the Sims. In the Sims. Or charting.

Or charting. Whatever that is. I don't, I can't look at him. Are you chatting right now, Dave? No, no, please. You'd know. Believe me, you'd know. Dave, we lived with you when we were on tour.

I didn't know. That's why I was not allowed that mezzanine bedroom. Okay. When allowed it, you beat me in rock paper scissors. I don't know if I won a single game of rock paper scissors overseas. Well. Well, great to disagree. Let's go back to the tape.

Please, just to go on. They lived in a fairly affluent area, but it wasn't where the wealthy people in town lived. Like it was a nice area, but the super wealthy people preferred to live in an area called the Hill, which seemed to be like the hip and fashionable place to live. But they decided to live closer to the industrial area in a house that was nice, but not what was expected of people of their wealth.

Might not have been affluent, but without indoor plumbing, it might have been effluent. I knew something would come of affluent, and I'm very proud of you. I'm pretty sure I've stolen that from Catherine Kim. Yeah. Even the delivery sounded like you're a Catherine Kim character, effluent.

Yeah, I got to this Australian accent I'm working on. It's very good. Thank you. Now, Lizzie and Emma had fairly religious upbringings. They attended church. They were involved in church activities. Lizzie taught at Sunday school to children, of recent immigrants to the US

and she served as secretary treasurer for the Christian Endeavour Society and was part of contemporary social movements like the women's Christian temperance union and she was also a member of the ladies fruit and flower mission. Oh, that sounds like a sweet mission. Yeah, I didn't bother looking out what it was

because I was like, something of the fruit and flowers and I'm all about that. I'm all about that. So my parents retired last year and now they live down to the beach and mum, you know, starting to meet local people and they're not that old. They're probably only in their early 60s,

but she met some older people that are part of the local knitting club. And someone was like, oh, you should join. Everyone else is probably 70 plus. And once a lady said to her, oh, you should join the club and she got the president over and the president said, oh, we'd love to have you. But we'd like to only have 12 people at a time

because that's how many chairs we have. So we'll let you know when there's an opening. When this opening is because someone's died, right? And then the other lady who originally said to my mum goes, don't worry. I'm sure something will come up soon. Oh my God. And then mum's gone to the...

But get another chair. Get another chair. We only like to have 12. Does your mum want to be a part of this club? Is she a knitter? She doesn't get her about knitting, but you know, just a social. The lady is really nice. She was like, yeah, okay, maybe I'd be interested and then sort of got the...

That does sound a little bit to me like she didn't cut the mustard. Totally. It does sound like a rejection. Yeah. Yeah. But they were looking after her feelings. The president looked at her hands. It was like, they aren't knitted his hands.

She's never knitted a day in her life. She'd be a terrible knit. I was like, so are you on the guest list? For the fucking knitting club. Sorry, man, not in those shoes. Something will come up soon. Ethel's looking pretty bad. Basically, someone will die.

Don't worry about it. I'll make sure of it. Wow. So I'll keep you posted. If mum joins the club, I'll let you know. And then can she? The club? No, the first club.

The knitting club. Can she make us scarves? Yeah, I'll get her right on it. Oh, that'd be so good. That'd be so great. So yeah, she's part of the fruit and flower mission. Not sure what that is, but it sounds great. What I'm trying to paint is a relatively normal and wholesome life.

Yeah, right. She sounds like she's busy. No signs of serial killers, you know? She didn't like burn pets or anything. She was pretty normal. Right. They apparently, they didn't have the best relationship with their stepmother. Apparently they referred to her as.

Mrs. Borden. They didn't really call her anything like mom or... Good morning, Mrs. Borden. Yeah. Wow. Even though you're walking through her bedroom to get to the stairs. Yeah. Morning?

Borden. Different reports say different things about the relationship that Lizzie had with her stepmother, but it seems like it wasn't amazing, but it wasn't awful either. It was just kind of an average. You know, they had their ups and downs. Pretty boredom. Yeah, it was pretty boredom.

It's, although there have been reports as well that Lizzie believed that Abby married her father for his wealth. So she wasn't too keen on her, but, you know, they weren't at each other's throats or anything. Bad choice of words there. It does feel like it's the kind of, if you're after someone for their wealth, I'd be after someone who also spent their wealth a bit. Imagine moving anywhere with a multi-millionaire and finding out that they don't bother spending money on electricity or money. No, but you'd put up with it if he was like heaps older than you and he would don't. If he's in the knitting club. But he's like five years older than her.

There's not a huge age difference. It's not like he's 40 years older and it's like a clear gold digger situation where you just have to hold on for a bit and then you inherit millions. Yeah. It's not even that, unfortunately. Yeah, which makes it seem like it's probably maybe, look, I know these two very well. And I just think she was in it for love. Yuck.

Lame. There has to be something you benefit from. If love is lame, then call me Mr. Lame, the love machine. Do you want to stick with that nickname? No, no. Please Mr. Lame, the Love Machine. Let's leave that one. Want to leave that one, Love Machine?

No, let's leave that one there and move on, I reckon. Okay. Yeah, when I started that sentence, I didn't anticipate it ending there. Yeah, nah, but a quick note to future, Jess, when you're editing this to just change Matt's name in our group chat to Love Machine. I love it. Dave can stay as toilet boy I love you You don't see your own one

No you don't What am I lonely girl Still? I think Dave should be changed To chart boy Yeah Happy with that Top of the charts

Noted And something else will come up for me I'm sure Anyway Top 10 Number 11 in her own house Shitter than a toaster Bridget Sullivan was the Borden's 25-year-old live-in-maid

who'd immigrated to the US from Ireland and she later testified that Lizzie and Emma really ate meals with their parents so like they weren't a really close family They were fine They were still kids They were kids through all of this, right? I think this is a bit older

You're a teen years, I'm telling me. Yeah, teens and like early 20s. Braddy teens? Probs. But I mean, we all have that, don't we? They're probably playing video games. Non-stop. That's why they're not at the dinner table.

Yeah, they're playing Sims. They're eating while playing video games. Double screening, probably. Triple even sometimes. Well, I've got the money. Yeah. It should be noted here too that Bridget, the maid, was never referred to by her actual name by the Borden family.

They called her Maggie, which one source said was the previous maid's name and which Andrew Borden had just continued to use for the new maid. What a prick. Yeah. He sounds like a real piece of work. Maggie, can you come in here? Actually, and he never listened. That's like a, yeah, like a bad movie trope.

Yes. Often in comedies, there's one character who won't respect. Actually, my name's Darren. Okay, Greg. Yeah. Nice one, Greg. Yeah, there's a lot of that. Classic Greg.

I'll mostly refer to her. Bridgett. But if I say Maggie, I'm talking about Bridgett. Okay. We clear? Because you also don't respect her. Oh no. I don't.

She's just for the help. Yuck. Which is what are you also called her? Help. Help. This is a, so there's a few, this whole, this whole case, this whole story is a lot of like contradictory information and a lot of story. and a lot of stories that some sources make to be this huge big catalyst

and others are just like, nah. So this is one of them. In May or June of 1892, so just before the incident, Andrew killed multiple pigeons that were in his barn. He, well, one source says he killed them because he believed they were attracting local children into the barn to hunt them. I'll hunt them first. I'll kill him so that you have nothing to hatchet.

I don't want any local children in the barn. And was he using an axe to kill these pigeons? A hatchet, yes. To kill it. I was joking. To kill pigeons. Well, how do you get him throwing him?

He's grabbed him and then just holds him and chops a head off. He's not just waving an axe around. How do you grab a pigeon? Amazing work. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Surely you could get, anyway, good on him. It's the 1890s guys.

People are hatcheting pigeons. We're all doing. I know why I was. Yeah, I loved it back then. But apparently Lizzie had recently built a roost for the pigeons and at the time it was commonly said that she had been devastated by her father actions. But this is disputed heavily. In fact, in Lizzie's retelling of the events during her trial,

she was pretty flat matter of fact about it. She told the lawyers her father had twisted their heads off. It couldn't be sure. That's much nicer. It's so weird. And she didn't see. particularly concerned about the pigeons. How many times you have to twist it before it comes up?

Oh, no, Dave. It's not like a sauce bottle. Okay. Yeah, you've got to get a tea towel on it, get it on the ledge a few times, brought some hot water over it at the bottom. Get a rubber glove. Do you ever do that one?

What do you do with a rubber glove? A bit extra grip. Yeah, it's good grip. Oh, right. And then check your chart. Check your chart. Yeah, and then, yeah, normally. And then, yeah, you normally get it off after that.

Otherwise, just chuck it away. try another one, try another pigeon. But yeah, so some sources kind of made it seem like she was devastated by it, but she didn't actually seem particularly concerned. She kind of referred to them less like pets, more like livestock. You know, just like if he'd killed a goat. Yeah. Oh, okay, now I get it.

I don't know why that was the first animal I thought of. New nickname, Goat killer. So, yeah, what was her, she was hoping to eat him? No, she, well, she either didn't care about them or saw them as pets, depending on which source you're talking about. If you're trying to, like, deny a reason for killing someone, you would say, yeah, I didn't care that he killed my pets. I mean, what?

I didn't care if he killed my favorite pets. Not tinsel. Tinsle. Don't know why that was my first name. No, but I love it. Pigeon name. Tensel. Tinnie.

Tinnie, running through the bar. Looking for Tinsel. Oh no. He's twisted tinsel's head right off. Four twists. We all know that's how many it takes. Yeah. I mean, we've all been to a pigeon's funeral and they do the ceremonial head twist off. One at the crowd chancel. Two twists of the head. Ceremonially speaking, three twists of the head. And now for the final twist. As he His little head drops into the little barrel Okay, enough

The ceremonial barrel It's more of a bucket It says pigeon head Oh, when you're in the future When you're a cult leading serial killer This is all going to be used as evidence Laughing at the dead pigeons Yeah, goat killer

I said if It's just a hypothetical But it would be wild if it did happen I just snapped and did that and then people listening back to this it must be so eerie especially because one of the things you did was eat people's ears

Yeah Oh yuck! Thought that was a good idea. Very chewy. Anywho, based on the inquest statement it appeared that Andrew didn't kill the pigeons out of malice towards his daughter

allegedly it was just so Abby could make a pigeon pie But that bit grossed me out Pigeon pie, yuck I guess it's like a chicken pie in a way It's just a bird. Pigeon pie. It sounds better than chicken pie. It does.

Pigeon pie. Pigeon pie. It's just the alliteration that you like. That sounds like a nice sort of pet name for a loved one. Who's my little pigeon pie? Who is? William. Oh, you are.

Lordham. Matt, I didn't know you had that cutie putti in you. I loved it. I loved seeing that. Thank you for being vulnerable in this space. No worries. Thanks for having me. A little pigeon pie.

Oh, little pigeon pie. Oh, that is cute as shit. So the next month, Lizzie and Emma traveled to New Bedford for a vacation. One source said they left because of a family argument, but other sources said the sisters were just going on holiday. Doing it for themselves. Yeah. It's a lot of this.

It's a lot of because of this. Right. You'll read somewhere else and it's like, no. But apparently, after returning to Fall River, a week before the murders, Lizzie chose to stay in a local rooming house for four days before returning to the family residence. So if they had had a fight, she wasn't ready to go home yet. A bit of a holiday detox, perhaps. Yeah, after your holidays, sometimes you're a bloody holiday.

After your holiday, am I right? Yes. Oof, I am pooped from all that. Hiking. Always go for a walk on a holiday. Like, why would I do that? Why would I do that to myself? I mean, a big difference between a walk and a hike.

Let's be very clear. Yeah, but in some ways. If you can't handle a walk, you cannot handle a hike. Don't tell me what I can and can't do. That's my motto. That's beautiful, Dave. Thank you. Thank you.

In the months leading up to the murders, tensions have been rising in the family. A large part of this was because of Andrew's decision to gift members of Abby's. family, houses or land, but nothing to his daughters. Okay. That doesn't seem cool. Well, after their stepmother's sister received a house, Lizzie and Emma demanded and

received a rental property, which was actually the home they'd lived in until their mother had died, which they purchased from their father for $1. Don't really know why. It's probably one of those things where it would be like inheritance tax or something. you got it for free. Right, yeah. Yeah, something like that. But a few weeks before the murders,

they sold the property back to their father for $5,000, which is the equivalent of $139,000 now. Sweet profit. But I don't really understand. I couldn't find anywhere why they would have sold it back or... Well, because they were about to kill him. Were they? Yes.

Ah. No, I don't know, but that sounds... I did not research this well. That does sound suss. Again, that could have been another inheritance thing. Like, he gives him the property for a dollar, then you sell it back to him, so it's not inheritance. It's actually a business deal.

Right. So really just giving you $139 cash. Right. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, who knows? That's the thing. There's so many things in here that sound a bit suss, but also could be totally legit.

I reckon the sussest thing so far has been that they were murdered with axes. Because that just something about that doesn't feel quite right, feels like a crime occurred. Do you reckon? I don't know for sure. I can't wait to find out. How can you're a bit of an alarmist over there? I've jumped to a conclusion, sure.

Sure. We've all done that. The night before the murder is John Morse, who was the brother of Lizzie's and Emma's deceased brother, Sarah, so their uncle, visited and was invited to stay for a few days to discuss business matters with Andrew. This isn't Inspector Morse, I imagine.

No, Dave, it's not Inspector Morse. Because when you're planning a crime, as I understand, often a detective will arrive and you'll be like, shit, Herculopoir I was here. I've already planned the murder. The world's greatest detective has just happened to be at my lunch, my family's lunch, I'll still do the murder anyway. That's true.

I've said it to myself. I've got to do it this weekend. I've got to do it. I've been putting it off. I've been putting it off. And now I told a friend I'm going to do it to hold me accountable. So now I have to do it. Even though Angela Lansbury is here.

Yeah, crap. I mean, she's going home tomorrow. I could just put it. I'll still do a murder. Sorry, anyway, non-inspector mors there. Just Uncle John. On August 2, 1892, two days before the murder, Abby and Andrew both woke up feeling quite sick.

Abby told her doctor she might have been poisoned. Oh, okay. A family friend later speculated that mutton left on the stove for use in meals over several days was the cause. It was food poisoning. Pay for electricity and a fridge, mate. Yeah. Get a fridge.

You can afford one. Or whatever is the equivalent at the time. A cold, hessian sack. Yeah. A meat sack. Yeah. Put your fucking muttoned in a meat sack. What are you doing with your mutton out of a meat sack?

You leave it on the stove. Unbelievable. I'd just get someone to go down to Antarctica and bring back some big cubes of ice. That's right. I don't know any better way to get the ice. Hmm. No. Unfortunately, one of those ice cubes will have a small teddy bear named Bobo. But, you know, whatever.

Them's the break sometimes. Them's the breaks. Great episode. So they've woken up quite sick. A friend is like, oh, I'm pretty sure it was the meat that they had left out. But the following day, Lizzie was seen trying to buy Prusik, Prussic acid or hydrogen cyanide? Prisic-pac acid I don't know how to say it

Where was she seen to be purchasing it? Like a chemist Right You could buy cyanide at the chemist Yeah Which I read in one source she denied But then later There's some sort of explanation

Is what you would use it for So Did it say like you could actually Could take it for something No you don't take it It was used for cleaning A seal skin coat or something Oh

Yeah you know Normal stuff you buy from a chemist Yeah How odd is that? She tried to buy it but couldn't. So she didn't have any poison. Right. So it's very odd.

Anyway. Okay, but no, but I can see how the argument is madding against her. Possibly she poisoned them, the food thing, didn't work properly, tried to get some cyanide, was denied. She's got to find a third and different way to kill. Yeah. Denied cyanide. Denied. Denied.

Which brings us to August 4th, 1892. A good day to die. Oh, that was cool. Hard. Back in action. After breakfast the next morning at which Andrew, Abby, Lizzie, the Uncle John, and the maid Bridget, or Maggie, we're all present. Andrew and John went to the sitting room where they chatted for nearly an hour. And a little before 9 a.m., John left to buy a pair of oxen, which is a normal thing that you would go and do.

Did it just a couple days ago myself. Yeah. I got to go to, thank you. I got to add that to my list of things to do tomorrow. I'm having lunch with mum. I was going to go to office works. I'll swing past, pick up a pair of oxen. From oxen works.

Yes. Well, you can take your time because the earth is slow, but the ox is patient. Hmm. That's a... What serial killer is that rhyme about? Or is that a lyric from a song? No, I think it might be a proverb that, an old AFL coach said one time

and the AFL media was like what is this guy like it became quite infamous he's like he's quite eccentric isn't he? What character anyway so John's off to buy some oxen and visit his niece who lived

relatively close by and he planned to return to the house for lunch around noon. Around the same time that John left Andrew went for his more morning walk sometime a bit after 9 a.m. Somewhere between 9 a.m. and 10.30 a.m. Abbie went upstairs to make the bed. I like to think it took her an hour and a half. She took the full hour and half. It does take a while when you do it by yourself though. Yeah. And also back in, if you're a maid back in those days, imagine you're properly making it. You got the under sheet,

the top sheet, all that, all the, the full works. Yeah. So two sheets is what you're, yeah. But you know, when you're staying at a hotel, they tuck the shit out of that thing. Yeah, you can't get in or out of that. I'm imagining that's what she's doing. Hospital corners, yeah, 100%. Probably even sort of like stitching a new mattress. She just does it from scratch every day, a new bed. Yeah, she's making a new bed.

She's making like a towel animal, swan or a monkey or something. Obviously, she's putting rose petals on it. She's really putting in the time. That's Abby for you. One time I stayed at a place and my sunglasses were on the bedside table and they made a pig out of a towel and put the sunglasses on the pig. They would have laughed for hours. Look they took a photo

And they sent it to each other The rest of the day That's really That's very funny Some of our best work You should have tipped him I reckon That's a good bit

This is the other time They put lipstick on it Yeah It's just going through your stuff Finding props for the towel animal The pigs are like giving it's like It's like crushing its teeth With your tooth bro

You're like I don't I don't feel comfortable You're touching that Why did you That was in a bag You had to unzip them You went through my staff.

Anyway, so Abby's making the bed upstairs. Andrew returned home around 10.30. He struggled to open the front door, so he knocked to get someone's attention. And Bridget heard him, and she let him in. All of this is pretty innocuous so far. Lizzie stated that she had then removed Andrew's boots, helped him into his slippers before he lay down on the sofa for a nap. Okay.

It's only like 10 a.m. 10.30, but he needs a nap. Gosh. Can relate. Love a nap. Oh, love a nap. So now who's in the house? You've got Abby upstairs. Bridgette.

Two names upstairs. Made two names. No, I'll get to where Bridget goes from here. Okay, okay, cool. Lizzie told, this is weird. Lizzie told Bridget about a sale at a department store and gave her permission to go. But Bridget didn't feel well, so she went to lie down. Seems like a weird.

So she's trying to get rid of Lizzie? Maybe. Maybe. Or she's just being nice and saying, hey, it's pretty quiet. Everything seems pretty under control here. There's a sale if you want to go. Just letting you know.

Right. Could have been that too. She also, so now the couple are both having naps. So, no, Abby's, well, she went upstairs. Okay, I'll tell you where Abby's gone. Around 11.10 a.m., Bridget heard Lizzie call from downstairs. Maggie, which is Bridget. come quick father's dead someone came in and killed him

and Andrew was slumped on a couch in the downstairs sitting room struck 10 or 11 times with a hatchet like weapon his wounds were still bleeding leading detectives to estimate his death to have occurred at approximately 11 a.m so 10 minutes before Lizzie had called out okay and I won't detail too much about his wounds but let's just say they were real bad like face caved in kind of bad right So he's already very dead. He's super dead. Yeah.

He's super, super dead. Like face caved in dead. So the people who say Lizzie did it say that she did it and then went somewhere and counted her 10 minutes. And then went, oh no. Oh, what? Come quickly. Father is dead. Someone has come and killed father.

That seems like a strange thing to say. It was a different time too, Dave. Let's remember their language. Their vernacular different to ours. Also, it's in the US. We're Australian. Maybe they speak different. So it would be like,

Stuth, the prick's been killed. Oh, no. Just be that. Is this in Massachusetts? Yep. You both had to go out saying it now. I reckon I got two thirds the way through that fine. It was just that final third got me.

Yeah. Massachusetts. No. No. It's not chute. Massachutes. Massachusetts. Massachusetts.

Nice. I like how I said. Me too. It's more fun. Yeah. Massachusetts. Yeah, that's a great word. And it's different every time, too, which is fun.

That was a new one. It's unpredictable. I'm like on a buck and bronco. I can't hold on to that word. Woo! Okay, so they found Andrew dead. And despite the gore, the room was in. order. This is a quote from, I believe the police. The room was in order. There was no sign of a

scuffle of any kind. So everything else around it, totally fine. Had Maggie two names cleaned it up? She's very good. She is good. She's efficient and she just like, even in shock, she just knows like, I just go clean. She just goes into like survival mode and surviving is cleaning. Some people do go and like do the dishes, you know, in shock. Shock can make you do weird things. So I guess that would make sense too. Yeah, she put sunglasses on his face. on his caved in face. That's a shock thing. It's what he would have wanted.

He hated. To look cool. He hated the glare and he liked looking cool. Grief makes people hacked in mysterious ways. Yeah. Or hack in mysterious ways. Oh, Jess, no, too soon. Please.

No. Come on. No. But it's one thing to put sunglasses on his caved in face, but. Sorry. Stop saying that again, please. Well. Which part?

Sunglasses. I apologize. Can you do a Massachusetts accent? That's like John F. Kennedy, right? He's Massachusetts, right? Oh. Boston's Massachusetts? Yeah. I've said it different every time. Boston, Massachusetts?

We do a Boston accent. Car. They sound like a car keys. Car keys. Is that a... They don't roll their eyes like the rest of America, I believe. It's a softer. Car.

It sounds like a cockatoo. It's a car, and instead of car. Yeah, car. Same, we say car. Yeah, we say car. do. So Massachusetts. Oh, you say brum-brum, but, you know, other Australians say car. Let's get the brum-brum.

Gonna go on a brung-a-dung-do. That's a freeway. What, is that not normal? No, you're great. We say car. Never changed. Do we say car? Car.

We say car, right? Yeah, we say car. We say car. I'm sure we say car. In South America, they say caro. What? That's wild. In Spain, in Spain it's coche, but in South America or Mexico.

I don't say coce, they say carol. I like it, couto. It's a mad, it's a brumbrum. And we're all different. It's beautiful. But we are one. We are many. And from all the lands on earth we came.

We share a dream. And sing with one voice. I am you are we are Australian Single tear Multiple tears from my My child Okay His chart can cry now

I'm so confused I can't quite picture what it is I don't know I don't think he knows If we're confused Imagine what the listeners are going through Matt it's right next to the chuff And then a little bit down

Okay Yeah but I asked you to point to it And you said you can't Well, for legal reasons. For legal reasons, you can't chart the chart. The chart will not be charted. This is so confusing. Okay.

All right, so we have a dead man with sunglasses on his face. Dead man. Lizzie claims that she'd been sitting in the barn loft, eating pears and looking out the window. Pairs of pigeons? That is a great alibi. I was out in the barn. Why would I make up that I was eating pairs looking out of window?

I love it. Yeah, compounding lie. You go, oh, where were you at the time? I was looking out the window up in the top of the barn. Eating pears. Yeah, that's right. I was wearing a hat. Where's that hat now?

I don't know. It's gone. Pairs aren't invented yet. I don't know. Oh, my God. I didn't do it. Here's the axe I killed him with. It wasn't me.

Can I speak to my lawyer? Insane. Yeah, that's verbatim. how this went, so I'm just going to skip ahead. She said that she went to the barn to find waits for her fishing lines because she was planning on taking a trip the following Monday. That is a compounding line. Yeah.

Waits for a fishing line. During the inquest, she was questioned about these idle moments and she insisted that she spent 15 to 20 minutes in the loft. But police went in there later and found it so stiflingly hot in there because this is a really hot day. It was so grossly hot in there. They're like nobody would have just chilled out in here. Maybe she was shedding.

Shredding. Oh, you're right. Sauna. She was truly like a sauna. Yeah. What? Could have been. Is that a Bostonian accent again there?

A sauna. Bostonian say sauna. Yeah. Sauna. Sauna. Yeah. You're saying sauna like sauna. It's a hot room.

Yeah. It's a sauna. That sounds like Arnie now. Arnie. That's Arny. He's not from Boston. He's from Austria. He's from Austria.

Yeah. But I reckon he would have used a few sounders in his day It's not a tumor It's a sauna It's a sauna That's quite good isn't it That's real good I haven't heard an Annie impersonation since the 80s

Thank you so much I think it was on a little something I like this Who's your daddy and what does he do The Simpsons is the best one You know I have a lot of weird thoughts I think what if Mr. T and E.T.

had a son. I think it always sound a little something like this. I pity the fool. Who does not phone home? Then they start clapping and he does the, uh, give me more, give me more.

That's Ryan of Wolfcastle, is it? No, that's just a, Homer's trying to avoid watching the news because he's being accused of a scandal. So he's like, oh, I'll watch a note at the improv. They never talk about anything past the 80s.

That, oh, that's a great saying. That is a good parent. But Raina Wolfcastle did do stand-up. Oh, stand-up, yeah, that's right. So anyway. This is great, because when I was writing this report, I was so worried that it would be very dry.

But so far, we've not taken this murder seriously at all. I just don't feel sorry for Andrew at all. He sounded like a bit of a dick. Sounds like a bit of a dick. And I'm weird about, like, the ones in the distant past... It's so long ago, I know. Yeah, somehow I'm able to put more distance. Do you imagine it in black and white?

I do. It's just not a real... This isn't as old as something like the Blood Countess or something. something, but it is still... So long ago. Yeah, which is, it's weird that I'm able to do that. But you put an 18 or smaller in front of the year. Yeah.

And one day people will laugh at our murder, so... Hope so. There you go. And then they'll listen to this and be like, well, they predicted it. Wow, it comes full circle. It's beautiful. And we deserve it. Anyway.

I'm not in that. That way was about Jess and Dave. It was a royal way. Yeah. You're talking about committing queen aside? No. What's it called? Dave King Aside.

Regicide. Regicide. That's when you kill Reg. But what happens when you kill the queen? What do you call the queen and her name is Reg? Oh, okay. Very difficult. Love that.

Love that. Queen Reg. It sounds like, what's the, um, Ralph? That movie is John Candy. Yeah, Ralph, King Ralph. Not John Candy. Goodman. John Goodman, yeah.

I was on TV at the gym the other day. Anyway. Anyway, I can't help it. No, this is only one dead person so far. Why must you always jump ahead? I must continue the killing. Well, initially, Lizzie reported hearing, when she came back into the house, she reported hearing a groan or a scraping noise or a distress call when she walked in.

And that's what alerted her to her father. Oh, right, because she reported it to the maid. But two hours later, she told her, she heard nothing. And she entered the house, not realizing that. anything was wrong. And when asked where her stepmother was, she recalled that Abby had received a note asking her to visit a sick friend. So she's like, oh, she went out. She also stated that she thought Abby had probably returned by now and asked if someone could go upstairs and look for her. So Bridget and a neighbour called Mrs Churchill went upstairs. And when they looked into the guest

room, they saw Abby lying face down on the floor. Are you happy there's a second dead person? Very. Investigators found Abby's body cold while Andrews had been discovered warm so that indicated that Abby was killed earlier, probably at least 90 minutes earlier than her husband. Initial speculation as to the identity of the murderer centered on a Portuguese labourer, apparently, who had visited the Borden home earlier in the morning

and asked for the wages due him, only to be told by Andrew Borden that he had no money and to call later. and this the story added that medical evidence suggested that Abby Borden was killed by a tall man who struck the woman from behind. They also kind of assumed that a woman couldn't have done this. Like, that was all through it. They're like, well, it couldn't have been Lizzie. She's a girl. And how old is Lizzie at this time?

She's like, this is in night. She's like 30. Oh, okay. In my mind, I'm imagining she's a teenager. No, maybe not 30. She might be, uh, she was born. This happened in 1892 and she was born in 1860. Yeah, she's 32.

Right. Okay, cool, cool. And so that means her sister's 42. Like, yeah, she's 10 years older. So they're fully grown. Yeah, right. In my mind, for some reason, I thought the story that she was 12 or something. Yeah.

That's why it's a bit like, oh, God. I thought that was, yeah, because it's the kids, it's the kids rhyme. I think I did the same thing in my head for some reason I pictured kids rhyme about a kid. Yeah, and then you'd be like, I would doubt that, you know, obviously possible, but the 12-year-old, you'd be a bit more like, oh, really? But a 32-year-old woman could have done it. Yeah, but you're speaking from a 2019 progressive man's perspective. You know, I could beat the shit out of you if I wanted to.

I know it. And I fear it. Good. But. Yeah, you definitely could. 100%. You've been bragging all day about how strong we were. I am so strong.

I'm so strong. Second I got here, you were like, hey, Jess, how are you? And I was like, fucking strong. Yeah. Bro. Do you want an arm wrestle? and you were like, no, can we just do a podcast? I was like, yeah, okay, week.

And you called me a pussy. Yeah, I did call you a pussy-ass bitch. Yeah, like, oh, darn. I haven't heard that since the 80s. I know, but then I called you my little pigeon pie. Who's my little pigeon pie? It was a roller coaster. Yeah, I am a roller coaster.

I need help. Anyway, so, yeah, they thought, well, it must have been this man who'd come in by earlier in the day. Most of the officers who interviewed Lizzie reported that they disliked her attitude. Some said she was too calm. Right. And very poised. You write a note of that.

No, do not like the attitude. Yeah, don't like this attitude. It sounds like a disapproving mum. Don't like that attitude, Simon. Put it away, Simon. No PS4 tonight. Huh. Watch your attitude.

Yeah, it's a funny one. Yeah. Is this in a time before people knew that everyone grieves differently? Yeah. They hadn't figured out grief by then. Or shock. Yeah. Yeah, I would imagine that if she didn't do it, she'd be like,

What the hell has just happened? Yeah. She'd be like, WTF? Yeah. That was Massachusetts Accchant. Action. That's how they say it up there. I love it up there or down there, wherever it is.

You know I go for the Boston Celtics? Do you? Yeah, which I think they call Chelpix. They definitely don't. They definitely don't. Good you put that in. Otherwise, you would get so many tweets. So despite Lizzie's attitude and her changed alibis,

nobody bothered to check her for bloodstains. Feels like an obvious one. But nobody checked. They did search her room, but it wasn't a proper look. It wasn't very thorough. They just kind of had a bit of a look around. Open the door. A bit of a squeeze.

Like, it's in here. Just a bedroom. Carry on. At the trial, they admitted. to not doing a proper search because Lizzie was not feeling well. Yeah. Which again, shock, grief, fair enough. Or hiding a crime.

Yeah, maybe she's a genius. They were subsequently criticised for their lack of diligence, which I think is quite fair. In the basement, police found two hatchets, two axes, and a hatchet head with a broken handle. The hatchet head was suspected of being the murder weapon as the break in the handle appeared fresh and the ash and dust on the head of it,

unlike the other tools around it, appeared to have been deliberately applied to make it look as if it had been in the basement for a long time. Kind of like, well, don't it's looking too, like it's still in its plastic packaging. You're like, I'll probably take it out and dust it up a bit. However, police didn't remove these items from the house to inspect them further again.

Because Lizzie didn't feel well. Yeah, it didn't feel well. Oh, that's my comfort hatchet. Can you not? I don't feel well. My companion wax. Oh, I can't sleep about my axe. And they're like, oh, your attitude sucks.

That's all I wrote. Well, speaking of not feeling well, remember how the family had been feeling a bit sick in the days leading up to it? A bit of mutton poisoning. Well, the milk, the milk in the house, like the family's milk. Why don't I said milk so many times? That felt weird. The family's milk.

I've never thought about that. It's not weird to have milk that the family uses. but to call it the family's milk sounds so odd. It doesn't make it sound like everyone's got their nipples out over a big vat. Come on everyone. Milk and time. I've never thought about that. Well, I mean, would you have never...

The milk. The milk. Yeah, not the family's milk. I've never thought of this phrase that no one's ever said before right now. The milk. The family milk. Can we just say the milk? No.

Whose milk is it? The families. Family milk, yeah. Now I'm with you. It was a... tested for poison and so were Andrew and Abby's stomachs, which were removed during autopsies. Apparently the autopsies were done in the Borden family dining room.

Oh no. That's fucked. Anyway, so they were tested for poison. Nothing was found. They're all clean. It's no poison. Oh, no poison in the family milk. No poison in the family milk.

And none in the family stomachs. Nothing in the family stomachs. Communal. Communals. Oh, right. Oh, we've got one big tum. I just knocked down the stomach walls And made it a two family stomach

Connected by some Fred Astaire's That's the esophagus Yeah but unfortunately you had to walk through Someone else's intestine to get to the bowel Intestines are really long You'll be walking for a while You can wrap them around the world six times One person's intestine

That's intestine That's right That's not true. Okay. Prove it. It's only five times. Matt exaggerates for humor. Six is a funnier number.

Yeah. Thank you for exaggerating. No worries. So there's a couple of things here that are like contradictory evidence. So contradict things I've already said. Isn't that exciting? Oh, unreliable narrator. I like it.

Maybe. Or maybe I'm just being a bit cheeky. And it's like, here, think one thing. Boom. Here's another. Oh, wow. That idea? I put it in your mind.

Yeah, bitch. You'll think what I want you to think. Okay. What do you want me to think? I've got an open mind about this. Good. But I'm going to close it. Then I'm going to close your chuff.

Oh, no. You'll leave your chart open. Thank God. When God closes a chuff. He opens a chart. Oh, if you close the chart, I will suffocate. It's confusing. Now he breathes through it.

I'm so confused. Is it a wind tunnel or something? Oh, it's a tunnel. Are you a different species? Dave, what are you? A very special boy. You are. Imagine Mr. T.

I think it was done a little something. I like this. You are a very special boy. You know, I have a lot of weird thoughts. I love that. That's how it goes. A weird thought. All right.

So some of the contradictory evidence. So when Bridget went to unlock the door when Andrew got home, he couldn't get, his key wasn't working. He couldn't get the door up. And he's like, ah, someone let me in. Bridget went to unlock the door. It was jammed, and apparently she uttered a swear word. Oh, which one? I don't know.

Damn? Yeah, it's probably damn. Drat this door. She would let her testify that she heard Lizzie laughing immediately after this. Because of the swear? Yeah. She was kind of like, Fridgett, you know? He says where, which we all do.

She didn't see Lizzie, but she stated that the laughter was coming from the top of the stairs. This was considered significant as Abby was already dead by this time, and her body would have been visible to anyone on the second floor. So if you're already at the top of the stairs, you can see Abby dead there. Oh, because you have to go through the bedroom to get to the stairs. Yeah, I'm not really, so confusing. But yeah. Yeah, okay, right.

And then obviously you would alert someone if you saw your dead stepmother's. You'd think so. But Lizzie Letta denied being upstairs. She testified that her father had asked her where Abby was. And this is when she told her about the note to go visit a sick friend. And then she said that she helped take her father's boots off before he lay down for a nap. But the crime scene photos show Andrew was wearing his boots. Oh my goodness.

He put them back on for a nap. That's strange. Do you think he did it? Yeah, that doesn't add up. Yeah, probably. Oh, that does seem like she did it. My dad always has shoes on. What?

Yeah, he's never barefoot. Even in bed. Even in bed. Wow. Really? No. that bit's not true. But like, so just around the house.

Probably in bed and in the shower. Are we talking slippers sometimes or is it always like? He's got mockies, yeah. Oh, that's nice then, that's all right. Thongs? Nah. He'll never wear thongs. Doesn't have thongs.

Does he have funny feet? He's got like sandals he'll wear in summer. A bit of alcro on him. Dad sandals. I reckon he did it. Dandles. You're blaming John. He's sounding very suss.

I think you're right. Anyway, I don't know why I thought of that. Maybe because of boots, like wearing boots for a now. So she said, I took his boots off for a nap. But then photos, he's got boots on. Okay, that doesn't add up either. It doesn't. So in the days that followed,

Lizzie and Emma's friend, Alice Russell, decided to stay with them the night following the murders. I don't know why you'd voluntarily stay in a murder house, but maybe she was trying to be a good friend. You'd go and stay with a friend rather than have the friend come into the murder house. Yeah, come stay with me at my house. Especially when there's like an open surgery in the dining room. Yeah, they're dissecting your dad in the dining room.

Very gross. That's fun sentence though. Dissecting dad in the dining room. That's good. Yeah, that is fun. No, actually, isn't that fun. Now that you think about the words. Disecting dead dad?

Yeah, that's fun. In the dining room. Yeah, room just ruins it. Dining digs. Dining digs. Degs. That's fun. That's fun.

Just don't think about what you were saying. No, but it's fun. Yeah. There were police. They're stationed around the house. And one of the... They got police stations around the house. Big crime.

Seems a bit drastic. Yeah. Yeah. And expensive. Yeah. Oh, so now you'll spend money. Yeah. Yeah.

Strange. So, yeah. Very strange. What's that? Six months? Very strange. Building these pretty brick and mortar. Training more cops.

Oh, my God. Unbelievable. Yeah. Waste of taxpayer money. So the police are stationed around the house. And an officer claimed to have seen Lizzie, See, this is another thing where it's like, it looks so suss, but it could also be completely innocent. So he claims to have seen Lizzie enter the cellar with Alice, carrying a kerosene lamp and a slop pail.

He stated he saw both women exit the cellar, after which Lizzie returned alone. Though he was unable to see what she was doing, he stated it appeared she was bent over the sink. And this is after the crimes and the police officers saw this. Yeah. Right. But it's like, it does, the way it's really, written is almost like it's implying. She's cleaning?

She's cleaning up like evidence. And the maid was in on it. That wasn't the maid. That was Alice, the friend. Oh, the friend. The friend's in on it. Maybe. But also, she could have just been cleaning.

You know? She didn't chores. Yeah, it's a weird one. I mean, if you saw her like she had like blood on it on something, you'd be like, that's suspect. And she was going, ding dong, the witch is dead. They'd be like, oh. Did she deny that that happened later?

No, I mean, she wasn't doing anything wrong there. She was just going about a day. Yeah. He just thought that was noteworthy. So the next day, their Uncle John left the house and was swarmed by people who had gathered outside the house, having heard what happened. Apparently there was like hundreds of people.

It was huge news. We've talked about this before. Back then, there was just not a lot to do. I'm just going to go down to the murder house. And just hang around outside. So odd. Yeah, we're bored. Let's go to the Bordons.

So on the 6th of August, police conducted a more thorough search of the house inspecting the sister's clothing and confiscating the broken-handled hatchet-head. Broken-handled hatchet-head. Yeah, that's fun to say. That evening, a police officer and the mayor visited the Bordons

and Lizzie was informed that she was a suspect in the murders. Did the mayor break it to her? I reckon, probably. Guys, can I say this one? Feels like something he should do. You're under arrest, Lizzie. His robes and everything. He's got the sash.

The next morning, Alice entered the kitchen to find Lizzie tearing up a dress. Lizzie explained that she was planning to put it on the fire because it was covered in paint. Red paint. Okay. Dead paint. It was never determined whether or not it was the dress she had been wearing on the day of the murders. Ooh. Weird though, right?

But again, if she's just... It looks like she's destroying evidence. She could also just be getting rid of a dress that's covered in paint. There is a chance. But she's been told she's been arrested. I know, but shock! Yeah. It does seem like a weird thing to do.

Totally. Oh, this dress has been destroyed by paint, so I'm going to chop it up and burn it. Very odd. Why are you wearing, yeah, it just seems a bit weird. It's a bit. Yeah. I mean, but, yeah, it's just very strange. Yeah.

An inquest occurred a couple of days later on the 8th of August. and Lizzie appeared and provided her testimony. Apparently she'd been incredibly nervous in the lead-up to the inquest, and so it'd been dosed up with morphine, which is always a good idea, which could have influenced her behaviour because she was very erratic. She often refused to answer a question, even if the answer would be beneficial to her. She often contradicted herself and provided alternating accounts of the morning in question,

such as claiming to have been in the kitchen, reading a magazine when her father arrived home, then claiming to have been in the dining room, doing some ironing, then claiming to have been coming down the stairs. Right, but she was high as a kite. Yeah, she was on a lot of morphine. And she also said she wasn't upstairs. Yeah, but now she's saying I was upstairs.

I was just coming down the stairs. But if she had been coming down the stairs, she would have seen Abby. Right. So. Yeah, seeming very so. Yeah. And so that's why a few days later, she was served with a warrant and arrested and jailed. She was in jail for 10 months before her trial began in June of 1893. five days before the trial's commencement

on the 1st of June, another axe murder occurred in Fall River, in their town. Gosh. This time the victim was Bertha Manchester. That's a good. What a fantastic name. Who was found hacked to death in her kitchen. And the similarities between the Manchester

and the Borden's murders were very striking and the jurors noted them. However, a portrait... Sorry. It's a few convulsions. Sorry, I was trying to hold it a cough. Sorry. I was trying to be less distracting and I made it worse.

I hate that though. That's the worst. Like he was about to explode and there's like an alien going to come out of you. I didn't. I accidentally swired half a cherry tomato today without chewing it. I can still feel it. That is my worst night. It just is no good.

It's just a bit scratchy there. Do you think it's still stuck there? Yeah, or it's just whatever damage. A bit of it. Yeah, maybe it's just pushed. But it's just like, yeah, it just feels. No good. Yeah.

Anyway, fun fact. However, a Portuguese immigrant by the name of Jose Carrera de Mello was later convicted of Manchester murder and it was determined to not have been in the vicinity, he was determined to not have been in the area at the time of the board and murders. So it wasn't the same person. So another Portuguese, is this a separate Portuguese? God, they're really pinning stuff on the Portuguese migrant workers.

I mean, there's a possibility they're both murderous, but. So yeah, now that's making it sound like someone else did both. And if he wasn't in the vicinity, then maybe he didn't do either. Yeah, and Lizzie couldn't have done the second one because she's in jail. It's very odd. Is that? Yeah, if they are that similar. So during the trial, there was a lot of discussion around the hatchet head that was found in the basement.

Though it wasn't convincingly demonstrated by the prosecution to be the murder weapon. Prosecutors argued that the killer had removed the handle because it would have been covered in blood. Would the hatchet head not also have been covered in blood? I guess it's easier to clean metal than would if it got into the wood. grain? Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Sounds like a killer talking over there. I'll say too much.

You certainly know a lot about getting blood out. Sorry, I was coming down the stairs. I mean, I was never upstairs. Where were you? I was putting shoes on my dad. My dead dad. Putting shoes on my dad. Oh, panicked.

I was eating a pear. Pairs haven't been invented yet. Oh, no. Pigeon pie. Yeah, I'm just trying to flirt with you now, a little pigeon pie. Sorry, officer. Yeah, no, you're right. That was inappropriate.

We do not like your attitude. Though no bloody clothing was found at the scene. No bloody clothing was found out. Would you bloody believe it? So, yeah, Alice brought up this. She testified and she brought up the story of Lizzie burning the dress on the kitchen stove. During the course of the trial, defense never attempted to challenge this claim. They never were like, no, it was just a dress.

covered in paint. They just didn't defend it at all. They're like, I don't think defense is very good. I don't think we should bother answering these questions. Lizzie, don't worry about it. Yep. Can we just wrap it up? Can you get to the end here?

Can we get to the guilty or whatever charge it is? Either or whatever. Whatevers. Yeah, got other things to do. Lizzie's whereabouts were also strongly contested. She'd claim to have been in the barn for 15 to 20 minutes, like we talked about before. Well, there hasn't been a person in that barn for 50 years. I know that's your bit, but...

Well, there hasn't been a person in this here, Barn, for near 75 years. It is a fun bit. Yeah. Barn definitely works in a little well. Yeah, it does. Good pick up there. But Bridget had said she'd gone upstairs at 1058 and left Lizzie and her father downstairs. Right?

But yet Lizzie called her, because her father was dead, at 1110. That's like 12 minutes later. So that... She didn't have time to go out to the barn, have some hairs. Hang out for 15 to 20 minutes. Then come back and be like, oh, dad's dead. Huh.

I was just taking his boots off. Yeah. It's weird. I wasn't expecting that. To be fair, though, I never have a very good idea of like how long I've been doing something. Especially if you're just running around doing 15 minutes of nothing much. Yeah.

And what were you? Yeah. It would be... It feels like if you're making it. it up, you'd be like, I left at exactly 11. Yeah. I'd be like, oh, around 11-ish, I don't know. Yeah, like, and also on those cop movies that the kids are watching,

there's no realism in this bullshit. No, they always like, uh, so where were you on June 26 last year? And like a few minutes later, like, you know, they're like, oh, I was doing this. June 26. I couldn't tell you what I was doing two days ago. Yeah, they'd be like, I assume I was at work. Yeah. Oh, then yeah, that was an overcast day.

Yeah. Yeah, we got a big delivery that day. Yeah. But Jimmy wasn't in for some reason. I had to unpack the whole load myself. Yeah, I was furious at him. Until I found out he was the murderer. Wait, I wasn't meant to say that.

Anyway, office, I hope you're having a good one. I wouldn't have a clue. I don't know what I was doing last Monday. It feels like they, because the weird thing about those scenes are that they always feign they don't know for two or three seconds. and then go, oh, yes. Because normally it is because a big thing happened. So it's... Do you reckon if the police were asking me,

would that, could I be like, can I please look at my Google calendar? I have no idea. If I have a look at my calendar, it might give me an idea of what I was doing. I think that would be okay. Surely. Yeah.

I think it'd be more suss if I was like, I was at the gym and then coffee with a friend. But it feels like you'd be like, oh, you're probably asking because of that murder. That happened around that time last year. I'm assuming you mean the day of the murder? Is that way you're asking about? Yeah, well, I know that day because I heard about the murder that day,

and so I remember where I was that day. I was murdering. Oh, no. I meant shopping. Says here on the Google Docs, one till two, kill Dad. Put boots on. Not sure why I put that in the Google. Cannot remember what that was in reference to.

Not sure. I'd have to ask Dad, but he's dead. Yeah, someone killed him on that day. Oh, you knew about that. Word travels fast around this past. Anyway, so, this is gross. Both victims' heads had been removed during autopsy, and the skulls were admitted as evidence during the trial.

Do they make him talk? Oh, hello. I didn't get one, Lizzie. Lizzie, when she saw them be brought into the courtroom, she fainted. And I don't blame it. That's gross. Yeah, the heads of the... the skulls of the people she killed that would be distressing.

I imagine they're also not like that hole, are they? Like a year later. And also like just a bit smashed. Bit smashed. Yeah, that sucks. You know, the... What was, what were they trying to prove? Not sure.

Maybe just like the... Just trying to maybe... I don't know. Just freak her out. Get a reaction. What's weird is that, you know how she was... She tried to purchase cyanide. Yeah.

apparently for cleaning a sealskin cloak, as we talked about. The judge ruled that as too remote in time to have any connection. It was literally the day before. And he was like, no, but it can't be connected. Right. Which seems weird. I think the judge was in on it. Oh, I reckon the judge did it.

Wait, then you'd want her to go down for it. But that's what you'd want everyone. Yeah. Oh, wow. Lacks judge. After an hour and a half of deliberation, the jury acquitted Lizzie of the murders. Not long to deliberate something that complicated. Yeah.

Yeah. And it seems, yeah. Leaving the courthouse, she told reporters she was the happiest woman in the world. Okay. Well, your dad's still dead. Bit of respect. A bit of attacked wouldn't kill you. Did the jury say, yeah, we thought about it.

She's a woman. So, I don't even know. Yes. Why are we here? Because you said at first, I were like, We didn't even think about it, but within not a lot of time they were charging us, so something changed. Yeah, but I'm sure I think it probably did come up in the trial that it was like, well, how could a small woman? And also, there was something about, I don't have it written down, but a quote was something to do with how she'd never really done anything nasty or mean.

Right. So it was so out of character. And also, she's not Portuguese. Yeah. How could she have done it? She couldn't have. No. And there's one article that was basically saying it was her femininity that got her off.

Yep. Because they were like, but look at her. She's so sweet and dainty. There's no way she could have done it. I really got her off. I knew that. Sorry. I know.

And I tried to think of a different way to say it. And I was like, I can't. Sorry. I apologize for that. Why? No, no. Never apologize for getting someone off. No, you were right.

You're right, Bob. I should not have got anyone off in that case. Thank you. And, yeah, please. He's edited out. And although she was acquitted, Lizzie remains the prime suspect in her father and stepmother's murders. Now, a couple of theories.

I'm nearly done. A couple of theories. There's a writer called Victoria Lincoln. And in 1967, she proposed that Lizzie may have committed the murders while in a psychotic state, basically. Oh, a fugue state. Thank you, fugue. Love that word.

Love it. I had to look up how to pronounce it because I didn't want to fuck it up. and then I got to it and I panicked. A fugue state, yes. Which is like a dissociative disorder. It's just a fantastic word, yeah. It's psychiatric disorder characterized by reversible amnesia of personal identity, including memories, personality, other identifying characteristics.

These sorts of states can last days, months longer. Right, but they often brought on by trauma, is that a thing? Yeah. But was she really traumatized by the family? This is a theory. Nearly. How fresh does the trauma have to be? Because, I mean, her mum died when she was two.

Yeah, now she's 32. All right. It's adding up. Yeah, it does make sense. Is it possible? Numbers. Is there a 30-year fugue delay? I hope so.

A fugue on coming up to 30. Hit me. Another prominent theory suggested that Lizzie was physically and or sexually abused by a father, which drove her to murder him. Right. That would cause a few. But there's very little evidence. And even in letters, Lizzie said she had a pretty good relationship with her dad.

Really liked her dad. So that's not great. But also then, I think when, you know, when people have a theory and they'll just find anything they possibly can to support their theory, people would then say, yeah, but incest wasn't a thing that they would have discussed at the time. So that never would have come up in any type of course. Nobody would have known. Yeah. That's why I think it was an alien

Because aliens aren't a thing they would have talked about it Exactly Did she ever mention an alien? I don't think so I've read all their letters And they're even like The type of methods for collecting physical evidence Were different back then

So we will never know But I reckon It's like a bit of a far stretch there But even like some of the local papers Kind of hinted at that a little bit At the time of the murder And uh How'd they do that?

I don't know Winking Yeah a bit of nudge nudge There's a mystery author called Ed McBain. Good name. And he wrote a novel in 1984 titled Lizzie. And it suggested that Lizzie committed the murders after being caught in a lesbian trist with Bridget.

15 years after he wrote his book, he elaborated on his theory in an interview in 1999. I like it. I'm so glad they asked him to elaborate. He speculated that Abby had caught Lizzie and Bridget together and had reacted with horror and disgust. Is that her sister? What?

No, a friend. The maid. Oh, sorry. The maid's got too many names, yes. I've only referred to her as Bridget. Once she was Maggie. She's Bridget. There's been a few names in this.

Yeah, anyway. Bridget's the maid. Wait, who's the friend? Alice. Can maids be friends? No. Okay. But they can be lovers.

Right. Oh. How can we be lovers if you're still my maid? That's beautiful. So he speculated that Abby had caught them together, had reacted with horror and disgust and that Lizzie had killed Abby with a candlestick. And when Andrew returned home, she'd confess to her dad, but he also reacted with disgust, so she killed him in a rage with the hatchet. In her later years, Lizzie was rumoured to be a lesbian,

and there was a film called Lizzie that came out last year that focuses very heavily on that plot line, and even basically frames Bridget as an accomplice. But there was no, such speculation about Bridget, who found other employment after the murders and later married a man she met while working as a maid. But she died in 1948, where she allegedly gave a deathbed confession to her sister,

stating that she'd changed her testimony on the stand in order to protect Lizzie. What does that mean? So, I don't, obviously haven't read his book, but it does seem to be like a man that guy has seen, oh, she may have been a lesbian. been, well, let me say what could have happened.

Yeah, it feels really far-fetched. It's like, there's no evidence of this happening, but this could have happened. Yeah. And then the candlestick, it's like, okay. Yeah. And then she must have told her dad, but then her dad must have been like, no, I don't accept that. So she got raged and killed him.

And he keeps going and he keeps looking up. Like, oh, people are still listening. Oh, yeah. And then, um, her. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I've got to finish somewhere. It's a little bit odd. Emma, the sister, she had an alibi.

She was in Fairhaven, which is about 15 miles or 25Ks away. But, of course, a crime writer named Frank Spearing proposed that she may have secretly visited the residents to kill her parents before returning to Fairhaven to receive the telegram informing her of the murders. Yeah, she had to race back to get the telegram because then the person, and delivering the telegram and be like, I gave her the telegram. She can't have been there, but oh, she was. She did it. It's very confusing.

Right. And also why would she have murdered them? You didn't give any kind of reason why. All these people should spend their time writing episodes of murder she wrote because it sounds like they've got great plot lines and characters and theories, but. One more prominent suspect is their uncle, John. Ah, Uncle John Morse. Did he ever show any signs of being a killer?

He really met with a family after his sister had died, but he'd slept in the house the night before the murders. And according to law enforcement, John had provided an absurdly perfect and over-detailed alibi for the death of Abby Borden. I was at the shop at 1104. With the judge, he was there with me and my friend the sheriff. We're all there.

Said to the sheriff, take note of where I am right now. And he said, that's a weird request, John, but all right. And he did. So no further questions. Oh, John Morse. Anyway, so after the trial, Lizzie and Emma bought a home in Fall River, and they called it Maplecroft. These are the two sisters.

They're just living in a home now. It was a large home. They had a staff. They had live-in maids, a housekeeper. because Abby was ruled to have died before Andrew, her estate first went to Andrew and then at his death passed to his daughters as part of his estate.

So they had quite a lot of money. So if it went the other way, his would have gone to her and hers would have gone to... Maybe her family? Right. That seems like a wild way of figuring it out. But do you think Andrew ever knew

that he'd inherited that for about an hour? Wow. Wow. Wow. I've got all that, I've got all this stuff. Oh, no. I mean, your wife's dead. I don't think you're first thinking about your inheritance.

Oh, the first hour. Yeah, you're right. Shock and grief. It sounds to me like they plan that too. Kill the stepmom first. Money goes to dad. Kill the dad. You get the money from dad.

Who planned it? The daughters. Some sort of sister. Oh, a sister. An unknown sister, third sister. They did have a third sister. But she died when she was two years old. Or did she?

That's what she wanted you to think. And because she was officially dead, she didn't inherit any of the fortune that she killed for. Sure, but her sisters could have just given it to her. Yeah, that's right. They're in on it. They're in it together. Are they all in cahoots?

Yes. And they were also lovers. Really? Maybe. Probably. And they wouldn't have written about it back then. No. They wouldn't have written that down.

They wouldn't have confessed to her murder. in the letter. But I'm very suspicious. I can tell. Yeah, so they live it in their house. Two years after the murder, the sisters even purchased a 10-foot-tall blue granite monument for their father and stepmother,

spending more than $2,000 at the time. So that's a shit ton now, a metric shit ton. However, despite being acquitted of the crime, the people in her town certainly didn't trust her and they turned against her. All of her friends abandoned her. People refused to sit near her at church. And children, probably daring each other, would ring her doorbell in the middle of the night and pelt her house with gravel and eggs.

Oh, geez. Yeah, kids suck. Oh, if she didn't do it, that sucks. If she did it, she'd be like, no, you know, this is, I guess this is calmer. At least I'm rich, my dad's dead. Yeah, but a bit of gravel, you know, even is even. Even is Evie. I don't think I said that quietly enough

That it didn't You're wearing headphones Anyway Lizzie often travelled to Boston In New York To go to the theatre And she developed a relationship With actress Nancy O'Neill

Oh yes What a man Nance O'Neill Not Nancy Nance See this is another one where people were like She's gay She's got a very close friendship With this woman

Who's married to a man It's a little bit confusing. I'm not saying they weren't, but I'm just saying like people were jumping to some conclusions. They could have just been very close friends. Also, lesbians don't necessarily kill their parents. No, yeah, there's no correlation there, I don't think. They're like she's got a secret, potentially. And that means she also has another secret about killing her parents.

Yeah, those two go hand in hand. Emma disapproved of this relationship, this friendship with Nance. and Lizzie threw a party for Nancy O'Neill one time at their house and it was the final straw Emma moved out. She was mad, she moved out of the house, she thought she, and she refused to discuss the matter. But one time she told the Boston Sunday Herald that I did not go until conditions became absolutely unbearable.

And obviously there's going to be something a lot deeper, but all that I could find was that she didn't like this friendship So she left and the two sisters never spoke again. Whoa. They remained estranged. Wow. Especially on the plane. Rest of their lives.

Oh, and by the way, after the murders and after the trial and everything, Lizzie started going by Lisbeth instead. Maybe to try and distance herself from the trial. She didn't start calling herself Andrew. Yeah, you'd go by Andrew, surely. Andy McDowell. Andy, oh, I hate Andy McDowell. What?

I just hate her. I don't get it. Well, the question is, why? Have you seen four weddings and a funeral? Yeah, actually, she's very annoying. She's so annoying. It does feel like, why would you go for her? At the end, she's like, is it raining?

I hadn't noticed. And you're like, have you ever fucking acted before? Express with your face, Andy. Jesus. She's in Grandhog Day though, right? She's a delight. Great film. It is a great film.

Anyway, guys, I'm so close to finished. Lisbeth was ill in her last years following the removal of her gallbladder, and she died of pneumonia on the 1st of June, 1927, in her hometown of Fall River. She stayed there the whole time. Even though the whole town turned on her, she stayed there. You're quite wealthy. You'd move. You can go anywhere.

Funeral details weren't published, and very few people attended. One article I read was like, she got the last laugh because no one was invited. And I was like, I don't think anybody wanted to go. That's a big laugh, isn't it? Yeah. Ha ha! Take that. Don't come to my funeral, you dogs. Diet alone.

All right. Yeah, good. We didn't want to. Nine days later, Emma died of chronic kidney disease at the age of 76 in a nursing home in Newmarket in New Hampshire, about two hours away from Fall River. So two sisters haven't spoken to each other for a very long time, die within nine days of each other. Sounds suspicious. It does a bit.

Neither sister had ever married and they were buried side by side in the family plot at Oak Grove Cemetery in their hometown of Fall River. And at the time of her death, Lisbeth was worth over $250,000, which is equivalent of $4.8 million by today's money. She owned a house on the corner of French Street and Belmont Street. She had several office buildings, shares in several utilities. She had two cars and a large amount of jewelry. That's my kind of lady. She left $30,000, so the equivalent of $580,000, to the Fall River Animal Rescue League,

500 or 10,000 by today, in a trust for perpetual care of her father's grave. Guilt, maybe? Or love. So closely in 12. wind the two. Her closest friend and a cousin each received $6,000 as well, which is $116,000.

And just finally, she's been depicted in literature, music, film, theatre, television, you name it. In 2014, Lifetime produced Lizzie Borden took an axe, a speculative television film with Christina Richie playing Lizzie Borden, which was followed by the Lizzie Borden Chronicles, which was a limited series and sequel to the television. film which presents a fictional account of Lizzie's life after the trial.

Fun. There was also a film last year in 2018. Kristen Stewart plays Bridget, the Irish maid. Her accent's quite bad based on the trailer. Right. To be sure. To be sure. But the most important depiction of Lizzie was when Maddie Ziegler from dance mums

and C's music videos performed an evening. interpretive piece, wielding an axe and wearing blood-soaked clothing. Wow. It's really something. It goes for way too long. You think it's blood-soaked, but it's actually paint. Probably. She was a child, so that's fair. But that brings me to the end of my report on Lizzie Borden. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. What a wild, wild ride. A bit of a roller coaster, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean, it's so hard to say, but did she do it? Well, yeah.

I mean, I'm in no real position to say because I wasn't there. I was on business in France. But it does seem like she did, but who bloody knows, right? But the timeline also doesn't really add up all that well. Like other people were home when Abby was killed. Right. Well, Bridget would have been there too. Surely there would have been some noise.

Yeah, it just seems like everyone knew. Maybe everyone hated them. They were all asked. holes and then I'm doing the fan fiction that everyone else is doing. Yeah, yeah. They're all in on it together. But then like the one report said that she was struck, that Abby was struck from behind.

Others said she would have been facing her killer. So maybe she would have yelled. I assumed Bridget was home. So so was Lizzie. So if Lizzie had done it, Bridget must have heard something or, you know, you wouldn't be like, where's Abby? She's been gone for a while.

You know? Visiting a sick friend. And that also sounded, that's a pretty suss sort of thing. Yeah. She got a note. But then the note was never found. Right, because it didn't exist. It's so odd.

So I don't, I don't know. Maybe she did. Yeah, it sucks. It's a super sad story either way. True. Imagine you didn't do it and that's just, ugh. But imagine you did do it. And you got away with it and you got money out of it.

Yeah, got away with it. But, I mean, do you really get away with stuff like that? Oh, that's beautiful. I feel like, well, I mean, if you, yeah, just feels like you would feel awful forever. Yeah. You know what you'd hope so, yes. But yeah, that is the end of the report.

Thank you so much, Jess Pop Perkins. Pleasure. Great job. That was a fun one to research. Right. So well-voted Patreon. They always seem to pick a good one. I nail it.

That's so good. There's wily coyotes out there. and Patreon land. They are bloody good. That brings us to a fantastic segment of the show. It is the fact quote or question segment. And Jess, you explain this beautifully. Fact quote or questions.

So one of our Patreon supporters asks us a question, gives us a fact or tells us a quote. That is so nicely put. And this week, our fact, quote, or question giver is Luigi delos Rays. Luigi? How did I not know we had a Luigi? I don't have enough Luigi's in my life. I need more Luigi's. And you're able to give yourself a title when you're giving us a fact, quote, or question.

Is he the Mario of the pod? Oh, my God. He's given himself the title of official Green Mario of the podcast. Oh, my God. I love that Luigi just leans into it, because I'm sure. sure I get so many Mario and Luigi jokes and you would just have to either go with it or change your name. Where's Mario?

I love that. Good for you, Luigi. Also, recently I went to work wearing a green t-shirt and some black overalls and only once I got to work did I realise I looked like Luigi. And I was like, I'm going to roll with this. Yeah. Because Luigi is sick. So you grew a mustache and you got a plumbing degree.

Yeah, I did. And I jumped and I hit my head on some boxes and coins came out of them. Yeah. It was sick, actually. It was a good day. Mama me. So Luigi, he did say, that's a reference to my name and nothing else. Good, thank you for clarifying.

And he has asked us a question this week. And his question is, he said, I'll go with the classic icebreaker question of if you were stuck on a deserted island and you could only bring three things each, what would they be? I should have given you I should have read this before right now and I should have given some warning I haven't thought about it Is it you got one? My phone

Yeah A charger obviously Not an idiot And And probably some coconut oils So I could work on a sick tan And before you say food Hey Dickhead

I've got my phone Uber eats Yes Oh damn I should have thought of that Yeah I didn't think of that And the charger that Just to keep my phone charged Oh okay

And that plugs into the sun, it's solar. Oh, that is smart. Jesus Christ, man, read a book. We've only got one planet. That's true. One planet, one life, one love. Come on, Matt. Food is a thing that is on the island.

Let's just say it is. Oh, yeah, Dave, there's a kiosk. You can get some hot chips and a pie. I can forage for berries. Fuck off. You're not foraging. You'd get a splinter and lie down and wait to die. Honestly, in any.

Any Survivor situation, any zombie apocalypse, I'm just going to lay down and die. I can not think of anything worse than the show Survivor or I'm a celebrity, get me out of here or anything like that. No, never, no. I don't care how much money you're going to give to charity producers of that show. I will just give money to charity and not go out there. Yuck, I don't like leaving my house on a hot day or a cold day. Sorry, this is Dave's turn. I would have a piano.

Why? If you're stuck there forever, you may as well try and get good at something. How are you going to learn the piano? You teach yourself. All right, mate. It's very patronising as someone who took 10 years of piano lessons. I've also taken many years of piano lessons. So I've gone out of the basics.

So I'd just get real good. I didn't know that about him, actually. Well. Now I do. This is why we learn. That's what fact, photo questions all about. Sorry, Dave. No worries.

I would have. Baby grand or? Yeah. Yeah, baby grand. Imagine that on the beach. You don't want to have, you know, you don't waste too much space. Yeah, don't want to. I would take a Kindle with 10,000 books.

Oh, it's a lot of books. And toilet paper. Oh, good one. Can I borrow the toilet paper? Because I have got Uber Eats. No. I think we're all on the same island, aren't we? Yeah, great.

This Kindle, how are you keeping that one charged? Soul powered. So good. It's so good. you remembered. Okay, so we've got food and tanning covered and a piano and a book. I'm going to bring a big disc to block out the sun. Oh, nice, like a shade tent?

Yeah, shade tent. A big disc. Yeah, like Mr. Burns used. Right, yeah. And he'll shut Mr. Burns. Ours will deafen us with incessant hooting. Oh, it's a real, that's a good question. I'm thinking of stuff like you, Dave, like a piano.

I was thinking maybe a deck of cards. Oh, I like cars. Yeah, you can do a lot with that. Especially if there's other people. Magic 8 Ball. How essential. Will I get off this island? No.

Oh, crap. Try again later. But if we're taking powered things, I guess I'd bring a computer with the internet, which I guess is there because you've got to Uber Eats. And then you could let people know where we were. We'd be saved quite quickly. No, I want, I'm looking at it as a holiday. Oh, great.

And maybe a masseuse. Oh, bring another person Some sort of monkey masseuse Yeah, how did you phrase it? I'm sure you can take you Three things each Yeah, people are things Yeah

The way I treat them Oh You there Yeah and the masseuse is also like Knows how to sing And teach Dave piano Great, thank you Perfect

Thank you Dave can I also have a plan You're not going to tell you a piano 24 7 Can I have a go? You thought it was a dumb idea So absolutely Absolutely not.

You'll come around. Then we'll do duets. We'll play heart and soul together. Oh, that would be... Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. That would be fun. Ha, ha, ha. And I'll be doing the...

Bum-bottom, bum bum ba' da, bum ba' da. It'll be real cute. I'd do it. And I'll You're not, you're out Oh, I was just going to be the audience All right Yeah, I think that's fun

Let's do it Let's go to this island Because on my computer I can I've just made that deck of cards useless Because you can play all card games online True, but we can also look up

YouTube tutorials on how to play songs Oh, great The computer does Tabs for things I know we've got a phone And a Kindle But a computer does Feel like a bit of a cop-out

Yeah Come on, mate. Sadly, I don't want, I didn't want to say, but you're a fucking prick. I just wanted to take some photos when I'm on my new tan. I probably lost heaps of weight from starving. For God's sake. Well, okay, no fair. I wouldn't have gone with a computer until you both had unlimited, powered appliances.

From the sun. From the sun. I mean, it's not unlimited. We're stuffed on an overcast day, aren't we? In three billion years, we will not be able to use that sun. And you know what iPhones are like? They bloody, fucking, a year and a bit, and they're, on the fritz.

Yeah, you're going to have to get a new one. And then where are I going to get a new one? Okay, I'm bringing with me an Apple store. Come on, mate. Oh, that's cool. I think the chaos is an authorized dealer. Oh, it's a shopping center. But a reseller.

It's got everything. Yeah. It's got a Target. It's Chadston. I'm bringing Chadston with me. Oh, the fashion capital. Of course. We were just trapped at Chadston.

Yeah, but I don't have to pay for food at the food court. That's great. Yeah. Oh, do we get a stuff discount? Do we get jobs there? Oh, yeah. Then we'd be fine. So you could probably have shelter there too.

They're actually building a hotel at Chadston. So yeah, we'd be fine actually. Big, I'm bringing one thing. I'm bringing Chadston, the fashion capital. You're welcome. Saved your life. Thanks to saving my life. I was going to say thank me later, but then you thanked me.

Oh, sorry. That was pre-thinking. Anyway, thank you to Luigi for that excellent question. Thank you, Luigi. And the other section on the Patreon section is we thank a few more Patreon in this section. Yeah. With Patreon.

In this section. And if you want to support us on Patreon, you go to do go on. No, what do you do? You go to patreon.com slash do you go on pod. And if you support this podcast, you're also supporting Dave's bookcheek podcast, which is a fortnightly podcast all about classic novels. He reads them so you don't have to. And also another podcast called Primates, which is about primates in popular culture.

And it's a lot of fun. A couple of fun pods. So good. I did a, I was about a month ago now, I did a like a mini do go on report. about a monkey who took a selfie. Yeah. And ended up causing a court case fun. Wild.

Does it get more fun than that? Nope. No. No. It doesn't. Dave, would you mind thanking a few of our patrons? Yes. What are we going to do?

All right, I'll give it a go. So this time, we're going to... Hmm. Hmm. I'm open to suggestions. Let's give them something on a deserted aisle. Island as well. Oh, great.

Yeah, that's nice. We give them an object. Yes, that's nicer than saying whether or not they murdered their parents. So, yeah, this is the... I mean, Jess, you're often very good, but let's let Matt do this one. Yeah, I reckon too. So just one object each. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, great. All right, I would like to thank from Halesham in East Sussex, in the greatest of Britain's. I would like to thank Carl Stevens. Carl. Carl Steven. Carl Stevens Carl Carl

Carl Carl Carl Carl I reckon Carl has brought with him an archery set

Oh great Yeah including like how many arrows Two Two arrows And he's got a little Sadly he bought

Six 60 bows You really did not pack well Yeah right That's ultimately useless But it could be handy

For firewood That's right Well done Carl We'll need That firewood You can just You can just go

Fetch the arrows And go again Yeah, exactly. Shoots a pigeon, pops its head off, grabs another, grabs it, goes again. So good. Carl, thank you so much for your support. Thank you, Carl. And bringing, because you're going to be on the island with us.

Thanks so much for bringing the bows. This is great. There's heaps of us on the island now. It's going to be fun island now. It's like a party island. Now it is a holiday. This is like Scooby-Doo that film where they're on an island. It's a party island.

Oh, now I understand. I was imagining. I was going to say it's like we're like on Ibita or something, but. That's probably better, yeah. We're at Lindsay Lowen's Beach Club. Oh, great, but there's only the nine of us invited, including Carl. Thank you so much, Carl. Thanks, Carl.

I would like to thank from Lancaster in Pennsylvania. I'd like to thank a beautiful triptitch of names, Benjamin Dalton Joles. BDJ. Oh, BDJ. BDJ is fantastic. I'm going to get BDJ to bring a box. Oh, I love a bit of botchy or bulls. Or bulls.

I say botchy, but I think bulls, if you know what I mean? Are you familiar with this game? No. But anyone who's not familiar, including Jess, it's when you throw out a target, which is a small ball, usually called a jack or a jill. And then you have a series of metal weighted balls and you have to throw them and the closest to the jack wins.

Oh, I know what botchy is. I thought maybe balls was a different game. No, very similar. So it's basically throwing lawn bowls. And you can play it kind of anywhere. I thought on the beach would be fun. You can throw those heavy balls up and they're just like smush down into the sand.

Yeah. That'd be good fun. I love the smush. Thanks so much for bringing a leisurely game along BDJ. Appreciate that. It's always fun when someone brings out like a hacky sack or something when you're at and you're like, oh, I didn't even think about that. But cool, thanks.

It's great when people think of really practical things to keep us alive on the island. But also it's like it can't be all practical. Yeah. I mean, we've got our entertainment officer, Benjamin, Dolphi. and Jolz right here. That's right. We're fine. Thanks to the bot.

We got our hunter, Carl Stevens. And we also have, from Bremerton in Washington State, it's Alexander Nengi. Sorry, I. You backed away from the mic on the surname there. Alexander. Why did I jump in here? Alexander, G and N, like Nat, right? It's a silent G.

So I'm going to say Alexander, Negi. Negy. Negy. Like Nyoki. So for people at home, it's G-N-E-G-Y. So I love when people's names don't have a vowel. Alex said, N-E-D-D-N-E-E. I'm sure he's gotten Gennie before.

Yeah, I'm sure. It's really very annoying. There's a vow right in the middle there, but I'd love to buy a couple more if I could. And I think he's brought with him a home viewer's version of Wheel of Fortune. Great. Top the luck. Top dollar. He won it by going on the show once.

And it's his prize possession, so he's brought it with him. That's great. Do you ever watch it, the show Wheel of Fortune? No, I only never see it. So they'd spin the wheel. And this might only have been in the 90s when I would have seen it, obviously as a kid during the day. They'd spin the wheel.

And then people in the audience would be yelling out, top dollar, top dollar. Every spin? No, wow. That's annoying. It was real weird. Top dollar. Just like the funny uncles in the crowd, I guess.

It's going to be a lot of fun yelling that on the beach when we're playing. Top dollar. Yeah, that is going to be fun. I wonder if that was the American version has the same. Probably. Top dollar. We get everything. We get everything.

All our great cultural stuff comes from over there. Our cultural stuff. Yeah, I'm a linguist. I'd also love to thank from Chicago, Illinois. Charlie Habar or Habert. Wait, is I know, which one's the one? English pronounceings weird and Americans just do it phonetically, right? That's how it normally goes.

Hubbert, you're thinking. Hubbert. I reckon Americans would say Herbert and Brits would say Haber. Habert. It's a great name. Thank you, Charlie. Charlie. Just what has Charlie brought along with him?

Charlie has brought with him. enough pairs of comfortable shoes for all of us. And all our dads. And our dads. Our dads aren't with us. But if we ever get off the island, got a present for dad. Does you got like a full shoe shop with him? No.

Just enough for us. Is that one pair each or? No, enough to last us. So we've got extras for us. We can only have them when we've destroyed the other ones. We really worn them down. He's clearly just brought everyone a pair of the books. that I'm wearing now that I've been wearing nearly every day for eight years.

RMs? RM Williams, baby. Yes, but he also can replace the souls if we need them. My old man's an RM man as well. He'll reply, yeah, he's got a pair that he's worn for a couple of decades, I reckon. He's had to replace the souls a couple of times with a day. I've done the heel. A few times so far.

Yeah, Dave's got a high heel added. Oh, of course. I do have a little heel, a little cute. Charlie, that is a more practical one, but also so helpful. I mean, I'm barefoot. I mean, everyone's loving you. Yeah, big time. And they're like, they're cool shoes.

Like, we're all in like Nikes, you know? Oh, wow. We're sponsored on this trip. We look sick. Nice. We look fucking cool. Wow. I mean, we're dying, but we look cool as shit.

We look good in our air pumps or whatever they're called. Playing the piano. Yeah. Yeah. Playing some with some, no, I don't want to do you want? What do you want? What do you want? It's spinning around on the map.

What do you want? What do you want to eat? Could I please get, I'd love to get maybe some Indian, maybe a kofta. Yep. With a garlic narn. Absolutely. No problem. Dan, it's on its way.

Dave, what do you want? I'm going to have an Indian kofter with a plain narn. Yeah, absolutely, of course. Thanks. It's on its way. Charlie, what do you want? Some sort of... tweet me.

I'll get it for you. All right, so hard. Okay. All right, nice. Can I thank some people. Yes, please. I would like to thank. From Phoenix, Arizona.

Ah, the round mound of rebound town. Nice. He's from Phoenix. Well, he played for the Phoenix songs. Oh, cool. I'd like to thank Victoria Kodak. Oh, yes. Kodak.

Victoria Kodak is a very nice name. It's a great name. She has brought us all disposable cameras. Oh, thank you. But you already brought a camera. My phone? Yeah. It's not disposable, is it?

She would have been, she would have been, she's been waiting for a year to have her name read out. She's like, please don't do a, don't do a camera thing. Oh yeah, you're right. Sorry, Victoria. But also, that's a great name. What brand of disposable cameras is she brought? Olympus. Nice.

Nice. God to be sponsored by Nike and Olympus. Sorry, Victoria, if you were sick of that. But also, lean into it like Luigi. It's fine. Go with it. It's cool. It's better than fine.

It's amazing. Are they waterproof? Those waterproof. Oh, yeah. We've got some really great photos of us like snorkeling. That's fun. Yeah. There'll be listeners who don't know what disposable camera means because they're...

Oh, they're so young. Yeah. It's been quite a while since anyone needed. Yeah, I haven't had one since primary school. Yeah. And I'm 28. Yeah, you're old. Fuck.

You're old AF compared to some of the three and four-year-old listeners. Yeah. We value their feedback, though. Yeah. It's all written in crayon, but it's very cute. Yeah. Finally, I like to also thank from a Rundle in Queensland. Oh, back home.

Bonnie Dixon. Oh, my gosh. Country singer superstar. Bonnie Dixon, I assume. Oh, right. Sounds like it, right? Definitely. Bonnie Dixon.

And Bonnie has brought... A fiddle. A fiddle! Well, it's better than mine. We've almost got a whole band. Why, what are you going to say? The Matrix. DVD.

What are we going to watch it on? I just love it. Everyone's like, all right. What are we got? Everyone. Oh, I've got archery. Oh. I've got bulls.

Like, oh, okay. I've got the Matrix on DVD. It just made me laugh. Does your laptop, did you also bring an external disc drive? No. Yeah, so we can't even watch it. Bonnie.

I do have, I do have access to Netflix. So, but like, we can just use Bonnie's DVD cover as a plate. No, you use it to signal planes. Oh, Bonnie. What actually saves the day after all. And then on the helicopter home, she's playing her fiddle in a very celebratory style. I feel like a real dick. Yeah.

That'll teach me. There's a lesson in this somewhere. I just can't figure out what it is. No, I don't know. Sorry about not judging a DVD cover. No, it can't be it. But thank you to everybody. Yeah, thanks all the people.

We'd love to be on a deserted island of our patrons, wouldn't we? Yeah, let's do it. In International Waters. Oh, it's still my dream to do a podcast in international waters. Can we make it happen? On a barge. On a what? On a barge.

A barge? Barge. Does anyone out there own a big boat? A super yacht. That's all I want. Tell me if you own a super yacht and can we use it for one day? Please, Dave, say please. Oh, sorry, please.

I need this. And if anyone works in a touring American for podcasts, All right, yeah. So we'll put it on the table. We're looking into going to America in 2019. Big dream of ours. We've been talking about it for ages. We've started looking into it.

The visa side of things to go over there and perform because it's technically work. Looks like it's pretty tricky, to put it mildly. Yeah, which we've known for a while. But the more we look into it, the harder it seems to be. Yeah, talking to a few friends that have been over there and stuff. So basically, we might need to go with some sort of tour company. Is that you? Can we?

A, stay on your super yacht and B, be brought over by your tour company. Let us know if you know anyone that has done that because it's not that many Aussie podcasts that have been over to America to do a tour, which we feel very fortunate that we want to do that, but we need to make it happen. Yeah, geez, I want to make it happen. I'm so keen to see a railcats game live. Throw that first pitch. If that tweet is legit.

Anyway. So Matt was invited by the Gary Indiana Railcats. to throw the first pitch. I'm daring not to dream as yet. I'm going to keep that in my pants for a little bit longer. You're looking at me funny? It's under turn of phrase. You're going to keep it in your pants?

That's a different thing, isn't it? No, but keep it in your pants. I'm going to keep my rail cat, my Gary Indiana Railcats, first pitch in my pants. Maybe we could all become semi-professional baseball players and the Gary Indiana Railcats brings us over as like employees or something. Right. I love this.

It's like a promotional opportunity and then we do a couple of podcasts. We just happen to do a couple of podcasts. It feels like it's win, win, win. While we're also playing semi-professional baseball. Yeah. I think they're full pros, just independently. No, but we're going to be set up.

Yeah, we're not good enough to be. They're not also podcasters or maybe they are. I don't know. I don't know all of them, but I'm going to. Yeah, soon enough we'll know the boys and girls of the Gary and Indiana Rail Cards. Yeah. So basically you're putting that out there just in case if anyone's still listening. at the end and they're like actually yeah I know a company that can help you out or anyone that

could help us out please do get in contact do go on pod at gmail.com probably the best place to talk about an idea like that and all the links to our social medias are on do go on pod.com basically we're at do go on pod on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and we're also on YouTube. We have a great time on YouTube. We have a great time everywhere. We certainly do. We just have great time. We're friends. Well that does bring us to the end of the episode. Hopefully we'll see some of you soon in Adelaide and Melbourne for our live shows, hopefully announcing a few more Aussie live shows soon, so stay tuned for that. But until next time, I'll say thank you for listening and I'll say goodbye.

Later. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want, it's up to you. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. wherever we go, we always hear six months later, oh, you should come to Manchester.

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