Do Go On - 198 - The Unabomber

Episode Date: August 7, 2019

In 1978, a mysterious package was found in the car park of an Illinois University, the events that followed kicked off a reign of terror that confounded the FBI for nearly two decades. So who is the Unabomber? And can they be brought to justice? As the FBI's own website asks: "How do you catch a twisted genius who aspires to be the perfect, anonymous killer - who builds untraceable bombs and delivers them to random targets, who leaves false clues to throw off authorities?" Listen to find out...Buy tickets to our upcoming live shows here: https://dogoonpod.com/events/Vote for Dave to be Australia's Pie Guy, (you do have to be in Australia or use a VPN)https://gourmetpieguy.brumbys.com.au/profile/dave-warneke/See Matt and Jess live:https://mattstewartcomedy.com/gigshttps://www.jessperkins.com.au/showsOur website: dogoonpod.comSupport the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSubmit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-TopicNEW MERCH SHOP: https://dogoon.bigcartel.com/Matt's Merch: https://mattstewartcomedy.com/shop Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasREFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.biography.com/news/unabomber-ted-kaczynski-todayhttps://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/unabomberhttps://www.history.com/news/unabomber-letter-bombs-investigation-arresthttps://www.history.com/topics/crime/unabomber-ted-kaczynskihttps://www.wired.co.uk/article/unabomber-netflix-tv-series-ted-kaczynski (ongoing legacy)

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates.

And welcome to another episode of Dugo. My name is Dave Warnocky and I'm sitting here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hello, you said my name first. Oh, wait. Is that on purpose? Yeah. I pointed to you beforehand, Matt, just to make you feel less bad. Oh, I really, I didn't even notice.

Oh, I did. I forgot that I was caring about this. How dare you? I never stopped caring. It was meant to be six. Is that been six months? Yeah. Give or take four or five months.

Can't be your dog me. I'm number one. Yeah, number one. You and me. We started this podcast. Yeah, you're the headline act. And then we brought her in. That's right.

But hear me out. You're the headline act. We get to you later. Right. Okay. Yes, I get it. You're the MC. Just the support.

Oh, now I have a name. Okay She's the support It, thank you It's over there That thing Just refer to me as Ugh

Yuck It's great to be here In the podcast studio But we are taking our show On the road Around Australia Over the next couple of months Including a very special show

At the zoo in Brisbane This Sunday afternoon We'll be there August 11th We'll be there I'm so excited You've got a few tickets left Yes, and it's going to be our 200th episode.

That's right. So it's two shows for the price of one. We're going to do a podcast first up, have a little break, and then do our patented Good Time Interactive Quiz Show. I can't stress this enough, though. There are not that many tickets left. So if you want to come along, you should absolutely jump on those ticks ASAP. It's already by far going to be our biggest show in Brisbane.

Oh, for sure. Which is very nice. So cool. We appreciate that people have bought tickets. We're also coming to Sydney next month, Saturday, September, Big Saturday Night Show at our favourite venue up there, the Giant Dwarf Theatre, another double show. And then Perth, first ever time you're on our radar,

Sunday, November 3rd at the Comedy Lounge. It's going to be awesome. I think Perth's going to start months in advance. Yeah, I think it will actually, which is so nice. So cool. Knowing months in advance it's going to be sold out show. Please let that happen. That feels good.

Because that would be really nice. No, I like finding out on the day. I like going, have we got any of years left? And they go, no, you sold out. I go, oh, that's nice. I like that. I won't let you know. So you can, yeah, you can find out, but don't tell me.

But I check the tickets every five minutes, so that'd be great. But I won't have it sold out. Put me out of my misery. No need. And if tickets for all of these shows, we'd love to see you guys live and in person and have a chat to us after the show at do go onpod.com. That's right. A little link there to take you to all the tickets there.

Snap him up. But also while we're in Brisbane, Matt and I are sticking around. Dave's pissing off back to Melbourne like an idiot. He's like, oh, I'm going to. I'm going to go back to where it's really cold. Yeah, I'm coming back for the weather guys. Yeah, but Matt and I thought, hey, let's hang around, do some comedy. And that's what we're going to be doing.

We're doing a switch show called Razzle Dazzle at Hayabar from the 12th, 13th and 15th. Is that right, Matt? That's right. And it's actually the world premiere of this show. Yeah. Pretty big deal. That is huge. It's Brisbane is pretty big deal.

Yeah. So you should come along. We're so close to Hollywood on the Gold Coast that this is where Razzle Dazel lives. Day trip on our day off. Oh, yeah. Theme park? Oh, maybe a super pass.

Yeah. Go to three and one day. If I was going to go to any, I'd go to Dream World though. And that's not in the Super Pass. No. But it's got its own Super Pass with White Water World. Oh, yeah, okay.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You don't need to know about our day plans. Yeah, Dave, you won't be there anyway. You don't care. It doesn't matter. Yeah, but you'll be tagging me in the photo. It's just something you feel left out. Of course.

I'll be partying here in the beautiful cold weather, so who's the real winner. You'll enjoy your own white water world, which is Melbourne in winter. Yes. Sucked in. Sucked in, dig head. Nah, good on you and good on Melbourne. Yeah. But yeah, come to Razzle-Dazzle.

All right. Okay. You can find tickets there, Dave? Please don't cut me off. So can I just take it's Matt Stewartcomcom slash gigs? That's right. Excuse me. It can also be found at jessperkins.com.com.

Oh, yeah. Just got a new website. You should go look at it. You should. It looks nice. I think. She made it herself. Wow.

That has got it. Good. You'll think it's professional. Oh, and one other plug. Very quickly, just set up a real sick online merch store for DoGOne. It's the first time we're selling physical merch, which we send out from here at our headquarters to you in your home.

Home quarters. Your home quarters. Yeah. Your living quarters. That's right. We've got our T-shirts up for sale, a couple of different designs, a few different colors, which is very, very nice. And Jess has been working very hard to post those out herself,

I write a little letter, a little note to everyone who buys a shirt. Yeah, I'm cute as shit. We're going to get more stuff going if you have suggestions. We're thinking magnets, maybe beer holders, maybe... Toot bags. Hats. Maybe capes. Maybe fedoras.

Oh. No, that was a joke, Jess. Oh, yeah, I know. Ha ha ha ha. We will not be doing fedoras. Yeah, no, that's silly. No, we'll do it ironically. Oh, yeah.

Ironic fedoras. That's cool. Anyway, Dave, how does this show work? The way this show often works is, and stop me if you've heard this one before, we take it in terms to report on a topic suggested. I knew you would do that. Suggested by a, I shouldn't have tempted you. Why would you say it?

Why would you give me that option? Well, just in case someone out there hasn't heard this one before, suggested by a listener, often is the way. And it's Matt's, Matt Stewart's turn to report on a topic that Jess and I, we don't know what you're going to talk about. I never know what you're going to say. You are, of the three of us, you're the most unpredictable. I don't think he often knows what he's.

He's going to say. Sometimes he says something and I'm like, where did that cover on? I'm a loose unit. You are. Dave's a very tight unit. He's tight, tiny to-sh. Yeah, try and get in that true if you can't. And I got a loose, begoose.

Yeah. And I'm somewhere in between. I'm just right. Regular. What do you call the back? We're like the three, the Goldilocks and the three bears. Caboose is what I meant. Caboose.

Anyway, it took me too long to figure that out. What a riddle. And that's not even the question. The question is, which American bomber's reign of terror began with a university bombing in 1978? Oh. There's only one bomber that I know of.

Oh, yes. James Heard. Yeah, I was going to make a spin on that. But yours is better because you named an actual player. Couldn't think of one. Could not think of an Essendon bomber. Jesse know this one? I think so, but I never want to say it

Say it because remember someone... Unabomber! Damn it! Damn it! Correct! But what if I was really wrong? You know? I can't handle that.

Yeah, we're all like, Unabomber, what are you talking about? You're like, that's a chain of sushi restaurants. What's wrong with you? That's offensive. Yeah, exactly. What if I said something offensive? I am an idiot.

So this topic, and you're not an idiot, Jess, too late you have a beautiful mind. I'm good at maths, but only in secret. Who does secret math? Genie I do. Thank you. It's the plural of genius. Oh, genie I.

Do you two know much about it? I know nothing. That's great. I didn't either. I could not have told you it started in the university. Absolutely not. But it makes sense. It does when you think about it.

Unie bomber. You know? Yes. And I will talk about how it got its Monica at some point. Oh no, I've said too much. Monica Geller. The key suspect. This was suggested by Graham Earl, Javan Santos.

Holy moly. I just cut and paste that without reading it. Javan Santos. Do you mispronouncing Gavin? Oh. It's a soft G. Nicola from Ballarat, Scott from Michigan, both of those didn't give surname, so I said where they're from.

Maybe they were trying to avoid. Being identified. Whoops. Ronan Williams, Adam Wheeler, and Yusuf, aka me, who we met in Scotland. That's right, and who suggested many, many great topics. That's a lot of people suggesting it too. Yes, well, that's how I went through,

because I put this up to the vote on Patreon at patreon.com slash dugorn pod. And I picked out three topics that had been suggested at least half a dozen times. The Unibomber just put its head out right at the end. Wow. Okay, so I'm going to tell the story. I was trying to figure out how to tell the story. I'm going to tell it as, you know, the public would have found out. about it.

Yeah, cool. Okay, potentially stupid question. Okay. Is it Uni Bomber or Unaboma? It's Unabomber, but I'll explain that soon. Oh, okay, sorry, yes, cool, cool. Because it just said, it makes sense, university. And I'm like, oh.

And you just said uni, and I thought, maybe I'm an idiot and I've misread it. But I think I always thought it was Unibomber, but it is Unabomber. Right. I'm hearing the same thing. You guys are, you're taking the test. Are you hearing the word bomber? That sounds so similar. Bummer.

Both of you to me, you know the teacher in Peanuts? It's just like, Charlie Brown's like, mawbom, wow, wow, bam, bam, bam, that's both of you. Gotcha. I mean, womwom. Is it the dog the teacher? Yeah.

Yeah, that's why it's making that. Rex. Rex. Wab bomb. So, on May the 25th, 1978, a package was found in a parking lot of the University of Illinois in Chicago. It was a pretty normal. The windy city.

Ah, yes. Second City, windy city. Correct. Chicago. Yeah. Chicago. Yeah. So that's, I think you're on two points.

Yes. Well done. It was a pretty normal looking brown paper wrapped package. On the front it had 10 commemorative Eugene O'Neill stamps. It was a playwright. Oh, one of the best playwrights that was the last century. Well, there you go. Why have I never heard of him?

Long day's journey into night. One of the best plays I've ever read. God, you're in there. Well, I think you won the Pulitzer Prize three times. I still don't know if it's clear, if that was important or not, but it was mentioned a few places. So I'd be interested in seeing as you know a bit about him, I'd love to hear if you think it was a purposeful thing

or if they're just the stamps that they had on hand. On the back, a return address of Buckley-Christ at the nearby Northwestern University in Everston, Illinois. The package obviously was picked up, was found, and it was returned to Chris. Because they're like, well, it's obviously Chris has sent this. I don't know why it's here. We'll get it back to him. Oh, so it's just randomly in the parking lot.

Yeah. But Chris, a professor of engineering at the college, had never seen the package before. He found it suspicious, so he turned it over to the college police. And in a 2016 podcast interview with local newspaper, the Daily Northwestern, he said his suspicion was that it was drug. So to preserve any evidence, he opened the packages wrapping carefully, which revealed a wooden box that had a little door on it and the little door, as he kept saying in the podcast, had O-P-E-N, handwritten on it.

He kept spelling out open for some reason. He's like, I just didn't know what it meant. I didn't know what it meant. I don't know what it stands about. O-P-E-N. He's a college professor. Yeah, no, I don't know why he was just been. O-P-N.

O-P-N. Is it two words? Oppen. Open? 10? Oh, Oop. It sounds like, was he disappointed it wasn't drugs?

Yeah, having it very carefully to maintain the structure of the drugs. Like a kid at a, getting a birthday present open? Oh my God, can I keep the paper? Please be good drugs. But he, as he explained it, seeing the box with open written on it made him feel even more suspicious saying, I had a chemistry background and had worked with hazardous materials and they were sometimes shipped in similar kinds of boxes but never with a stupid little door and hand-penciled O-P-E-N

I didn't know what I meant. I looked up in the periodic table. There was no element called O-P-E-N. And I said, I'm done. He handed it. A question to you guys. Would you have opened it? No.

The door? I probably would have lost my hands. Knowing what I know now. Yeah, probably not, but probably then. I'd be curious. You wouldn't think. Now, definitely not. In 1970, I had a more naive time.

Yeah. It's a different time. Yeah, but bombs existed. Oh, yeah. And violence. Yeah. But apparently the word open did it. Yeah.

That notoriously, Dave, was a word invented in 1980. Of course. It was the buzzword of the 80s. Yeah. Matt, do you remember when the open was invented? It changed everything. It changed doors, that's for sure. I remember first being able to go into the library.

We'd been wondering for ages, what's in there? Lots of books. We can't be sure. Just the word clothes and afterwards it just said not. Yeah. Not closed. Okay. I mean that could be anything.

Anyhow. So he handed it into the college police, assuming they would then hand it onto the real police, as he phrased it. Brutal. Oh, come on. Oh, come on, mate. That's so rude. They're just like, they're just like ticket inspectors. Like, they think they're the real deal.

Yeah. I was like, fuck off, taking his back. I figured, like, if that was the case, then why not just call the real police? Yeah. Why involve a middleman or woman? It's a unisex. I think it's a man, though.

The unisex bomber? The college police person, officer Terry Marker. With a wire and I. A why? That's a man. Okay. That's man, Terry. Officer Terry marker arrived.

And he was keen to open the package himself for some reason. Chris still thought it. He was disappointed that the fun bit of unruffing the packaging was done. Oh, come on. But you haven't opened the door. All right. But he came and he said, O PEN. That means open.

That's a word I've just come up with. I'm not going to release it to the public till 1980. So he was keen to open it up. Chris still thought it was drugs, but he warned Marker to open the door away from his face just in case. And lucky he did because the box exploded as he opened it, injuring Marker's left hand.

The small fire... The best hand, some would argue. That's true. Myself included. I'd argue it's the second best hand. Yeah, I'd play top five for sure. Wow. Pretty good.

The small fire the explosion created was stomped out and the shrapnel was collected up and put in the bin. It was seen as being a weird occurrence, but as it was the first of the bomb, no one thought of it being... a part of anything bigger. The first of, there's going to be more bombs. Oh, okay.

You are good. Thank you. Thank you. I'm also pretty and nice. There's something going to be one, at least one more daughter? As opposed to the Uno bomber, which was just the solo. Oh, that is good stuff. So, yeah, it wasn't.

The Douwebomber. He has to change his name every time he sits off a new bomb. He's like, one of I up to. 23 bomber. Fuck, no. Honestly. Bit of a mouthful. Yeah, so it wasn't really talking about on campus all that much and didn't seem to

on that podcast I listened to was hosted by two of the journalists of that paper currently. And now like, we went back through the archives and we couldn't find any real mention of it at the time. That's crazy. It was a bomb, but didn't really make much news. The police officer hurt his hand badly? I think badly, but not, I think recoverable. Yeah, right.

You know what I mean? But just the fact that there, like, he was, there was a bomb. And they just went, huh, that's weird. Best just throw it out. Anyway, chugging in the bin. That's crazy. Yeah, it does seem weird. You should let someone know, I reckon.

And like a pretty brutal bomb too, that it asks you to open it. I mean, there must have been a police report and those sort of things, right? But no media coverage. Yeah, interesting. Nearly a year went by without further incident until May 9th, 1979, when John Harris, a graduate student at Northwestern University, which is the same. University is Buckley-Christ, found a cigar box left at the university's technological institute. It was unmarked. It was just a box sitting there, right? Harris opened a box and it instantly exploded. Luckily, Harris only suffered minor cuts and burns. Authorities recognize

some fundamental similarities between this bomb and the one from a year prior, noting it's similar construction, although its design was more sophisticated. Though I'm not sure if this was realized at the time were in hindsight. A lot of this stuff, because as the whole case grows, obviously more people are interested in it. And at this stage, it's still, you know, small time. But the first one was like it had that return address to Chris, Chris. Yeah.

So obviously it was intended for him. Well, you would think it would be intended for him unless somebody opened it in the parking lot. But this one is just left lying around. Yes. It was just random. Yes. again though, left out of university. Yes, yeah.

At the same university. Weird. So that's bomb two, bomb three. A few months later. Betray bomber. Good things come in three. I reckon this is going to be something nice. Do you reckon that applies to this podcast?

Yeah. Oh, I think so. Every third pod is good. Yeah. Last week was really fun, so this one sucks. Every third one's good. Does that mean it always you just? No, I was going more for you, but thank you.

I'll tell you that. Matt, obviously, sucks. This is going to be... That's not doubting, Matt. Matt's obviously the weakest. But I think you and I can argue politely over which of us is the best. What a way to hear that. Matt, you're doing great.

I'm wearing headphones. I can hear every word you're saying. This is so interesting. I'll be hearing this again as I edit it. Yeah, you will. Hi, Matt, in the future. Mua. Give him a kiss, Dave.

Bad news comes in twos. in this case. Good news comes in threes. I reckon this be an explosion of a love. Yes, it a love explosion? Also known as I come. Oh. Sorry.

I'm not, actually. That's funny. A few months later, on November the 15th, 1979, on an American airline's flight 444 from Chicago to Washington, D.C., a bomb in a mailbag in the cargo hold failed to explode, as apparently intended, but instead caught fire. The flight had an emergency landing and 12 people were treated for smoke inhalation

On a plane? Yeah. Geez. Was it a university plane? No, it was not. Interesting. Are there any universities that have their own plane? I bet you those dogs at Yale.

Harvard could use. Yale could use an international airport. Larry Burns, his scores is so bad that Mr. Burns to get him in would have to donate an international airport. They'll could use an international airport, Mr. Branson. Larry Burns. Put her back in, she hadn't done you. That's good stuff.

I think this might be the one where there was, in the bomb, there was a mechanism that meant that would go off when it reached a certain altitude. Wow. That's really advanced, right? So that would become more and more advanced each time. Really sophisticated. And the design of the boxes is getting better. Someone's talking a woodworking class.

Love that. They're starting to be in different shapes. Yeah, they're kind of engraved. Yeah. It's really beautiful. I can't start out. I could only do boxes at the start. Now I do spheres.

Perfect spheres. Bomb four. I don't know if I need to keep counting them. But anyway, on June the 10th, 1980, United Airlines President Percy A. Wood received a package in the mail to his Lake Forest, Illinois home. The package came with a note asking Wood to read the book inside the package. saying, you will find it of great social significance.

Opening the book, it explodes. The book? Yeah. So there was a book inside. He hollowed out the book. Put a bomb in there. Put a bomb in it. Women can buy bombers too.

I'm hollowed out the book. Dave, how do you feel about that as a book lover? Well, I mean, I actually do love when people hollow out books and hide stuff in and I think that's really cool. Like a gun. Yeah. Gun book. But what happened to Percy?

I'm just going to hide another book in there. The explosion. have wood cuts and bruises. I think, so there must be, I don't know, obviously it's still terrifying, but not the biggest explosions if they're not blowing people's fingers off or whatever. Yeah. I mean, maybe it blew up his love of reading, you know? Imagine that, being afraid to open a book.

Yeah, you'd make your kids open it for you just to check, just to check. Yeah. Kind of like how they used to, like the royals used to make somebody test their food. Yeah. Stevie, can you come in here? Yeah. Yes, Daddy. Open this up.

Away from me. You pointed out your face. Oh, good boy. Give Daddy the book. The initials... Can't wait to have kids. Yeah. The initials FC were later found etched into part of the pipe bomb.

And like the first bomb, this one also had Eugene O'Neill's stamps making authorities wonder if it was a deliberate choice. Something noteworthy about O'Neill is, apparently, is that the playwright was an ardent supporter of anarchists. Oh, there you go. go. I think it's, I still don't know if that is important or not. Just in general. Yeah. Just like, I love anarchists.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Okay. Love them. Love what they're up to. I love a bit of anarchy and I love people who start it. Oh yeah, big time. Big, big time.

I'm not entirely sure I know what an anarchist is. But I'm confused. Continue. In 1979 or 1980, different sources and different things. You can't just, quickly say, the media now starting to put them all together and say there is a bomber doing this. Well, that's, yeah, that's what I'm sort of about to talk about now. Fuck up, Dave.

Not the media, though. The FBI, either in 79 or 80, noted the similarities between these initial four bombs and opened an investigation into them as one case, which they dubbed Unabom. The UN for universities, the A for airlines, and the bomb for bomb. Oh, that's where Unabom comes from. Yeah. I definitely thought it was Unibomber. Right.

But Unabomber. I thought it was Unibomber too. And I think I did always think it just meant somehow it was one bombing. Like that was, I said Uno bomb before, but I think I thought it was unibom. I thought it was something about one bomb or something. Right. But I just knew, obviously, knew nothing about it apart from the word. The task force also included members of the ATF, which is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms,

which I think we talked about a bit of the Waco Siege episode. Yeah, that's right. And the US Postal Inspection Service. Oh, yeah. The bad boys. Yeah, the guys get the front line. They walk in with their big glasses. I think there's a plot similar to that in Brooklyn Nine-Nine at one stage.

They have to go to like the postal investigation people. It's, does he know, Ed Helms? Yep. He's just like being like the total bad boy of post. And they're just like, okay. I love that. It's great. They were apparently the US Postal Inspection Service

were the first to investigate the initial bombings because they were... Post-related. And they were like, hmm, Eugene O'Neill. Interesting choice. A classic. Bomb 5. To this point, all of the bombs had been linked to Illinois,

but the Unabomber was about to go national. Whoa, huge. On the 8th of October 1981, a maintenance worker at the University of Utah found a bomb in a classroom. Utah! Give me two! But the bomb squad was called in and the device was diffused without injury. Something that probably should have been done from the first bomb. So they obviously realized...

This is a bomb. Yeah, the maintenance worker is the first one who's realized... Don't open it. Don't open this. This is suss. So I'm not sure if that was, it was just a more obviously sus thing, but the FBI's Unabom squad conducted exhaustive forensic examinations of the bomb components from all previous incidents trying to recover clues to who the bomber might be, but they came up with very little.

Whoever the culprit was, they took great care as to not leave anything they could identify them, no fingerprints or DNA. And they made their explosives from commonly found materials like matchheads, wood, nail, and fishing wire. I think it was in the early days, maybe with the Postal Service investigators, they dubbed him the junkyard bomber. Because all the bombs are just put together with bits and pieces.

Right. And are they similar bombs, do you think? Apparently, like being inventive with things. I think they're different, but apparently undeniably all. Made by the same people. Right. Like, apparently the experts see them and they go, it's clear that these are all connected.

Oh, yeah, that's Picasso. I know it. Yeah, you know his work. The attacks continued. I'm going to stop numbering him now. Oh, six. Okay, you see if you can keep up. I reckon I can.

The attacks continued. On May the 5th, 1982, a package was delivered to Patrick Fisher, head of the computer science department at Vanderbilt University in Tennessee. It didn't make it to him, though, as it exploded in the hands of his secretary, Janet Smith, who copped shrapnel wounds to her body and burns to her hands. Oh, no. Yeah, I mean, that's sending bombs around. There's no guarantee it's going to get to the person you address it to.

It's a victimless crime. But also, as a secretary, I imagine a large part of your job, or at least certainly a part of it, would be handling mail. Yeah. Now she can't do her job. On July 2, 982, this would be bombed. Seven. I mean, this is four years.

I like it that he gives me a very obvious look as if like, there's another one here, Jess. July 2, 982 at the University of California, engineering professor, I don't know how to pronounce this name. I want to say Diogenes Angelicos also suffered severe burns and shrapnel wounds after picking up what he believed to be a turpentine can that he found left in the common room in the computer science building during construction work. There was construction going on. He's like, oh, this shouldn't be here. I'll move it to where it should be. Whoa. Bang.

What's like a turpentine can. Yes. And these ones also, I don't really talk about that in the report, but obviously these ones have to be hand delivered. No one's mailing a turpentine can. Yeah. So where's the CCTV? Yeah, I mean, these are things that you wouldn't just wouldn't be able to do anymore.

I'm guessing there's just no CCTV back then. Who knows? It was so long ago. Records have been lost. Yeah. God. Imagine if you were alive back then. I can't.

I don't think people were. No, surely. These are cavemen we're talking about. On May 15th, 1985, again at the University of California, grad student John Horsa picked up what he thought was a file box for another student's computer cards. But it was actually bomb number eight. Yes.

Really? So he's gone silent for three years there. Yeah, so there are breaks. there are there are sort of he jumps in and out a little bit each time you'd be hoping or she hoping they died or something yeah all gone to jail or whatever yeah you'd be wondering what yeah what's happened it stopped but also then people would kind of forget about it and not be worried about things like when last year people were putting needles in strawberries yeah and for about three months I was like I couldn't put a strawberry in my mouth yeah in Australia here I'd have to chop it up because I'd freak out

otherwise and the other day I was just eating one and popped into my mind and I was like Yeah, you just forget about it. Yeah, you just go back to normal life. In those years, people forget so they're not as on high alert, and then it's easier to attack them. Yeah, and I mean, it's a huge country. Yeah. Turpentine sales crashed.

Yeah, like daily, never before has it happened with a turpentine cancer. Yeah, of course you wouldn't. I mean, how do you live like that if you're looking at every object? Like, oh, is that? A bum? Is that the bomber's plan to make people scared of everything? Dave, every time I look at you, I go, now that's the bomb. Oh, yeah.

Every now and then, I'll just like to build him up a little bit. Yeah, I need it. We really shit all over him a lot. And so every now and then, you just got to pick him back up again. Every now and then you've got to just tell me I'm the bomb. So John Housser picked up what he thought was a file box for another student's computer cards, and it had been sitting there for days. So he picked it up thinking, oh, I'll figure out who the owner is,

so I can return it to them, opened it, detonating the bomb. Wow. Quite injured, you said. Yes. The victim of the previous bombing from three years prior, the same university professor, Diogenes, Angelicos, heard the explosion and rushed to offer assistance. No way.

Unfortunately, the explosion meant Housel lost much of the use of his right arm and abandoned, many had to abandon his dreams of becoming a pilot or astronaut. What? Again, the bomb had the initials FC etched into it. That seems like the worst injury so far. So far. Yeah, I think they are becoming more serious. The one, I think Angelikosa's one was pretty heartbreaking as well.

I think he was the one who was caring for his sick wife. And she ended up, so she ended up dying soon after. Oh, no. And he ended up, he was still in a sling at her funeral. So he was the one caring for her, but it meant that, you know, that his last time with her was affected by his injuries. So, oh, just. That's awful.

Yes. So, yeah, sort of apologize for running through these like a list, but there are quite a few, and I sort of wanted to mention them all. Yeah. But it could go into any of these is a much longer story, obviously. Of course. June 13, 1985, the Boeing company in Washington found a bomb, but it had it diffused without injury.

That's number nine. Again, this one had FC etched into it. Look at that statured. F.C. Which I'll stop mentioning because they all have FC mentioned. Frederick Cumberbatch. Oh, that's a good name. Is it Frederick Cumberbatch?

Am I close? Yep, that's the end of the show. Hooray! We got it. I win. Yeah. This is interesting. Yeah, the two that have been diffused,

They were just, they were found and obviously looks suss enough. And, I mean, airplane companies and universities would be on high alert as well. Yeah. Especially. I mean, they're in the name, Yuna. I wonder why university got two letters and airplanes only got the one. Could have been Yuna. Yeah.

Unair, Unair bomber. Then airplanes get three. University airplane bomber? There it is. There it is. That's catchy. That's the magic. I definitely had a meeting about this.

Yeah. November 15th, 1985. So 85 was a big year. One, two, this is the third one from 85. November 15th, 985, a suspicious package is delivered to University of Michigan psychology professor James B. McConnell at his home.

Apparently he's sort of like a wealthy, slightly, what do you call it when wealthy people are a bit different? Eccentric. Eccentric. Slightly eccentric. Wealthy fellow. Yeah, if you're poor and eccentric, you're deranged.

You're a weirdo. Yeah, but wealthy and a bit odd. Accentric. That's my dream. Accentric billionaire for me, thanks. I'll accept multi-millionaire if need be. I don't know if you get eccentric, but just multi-molitor. God, it's hard.

I mean, it's got to be multi-multy. Do you reckon? Yeah. So multi that it's billion. Yeah. So this package comes with a letter, which includes the line, I'd like you to read this book. Everyone in your position.

should read this book. McConnell asked his research assistant Nicholas Suno to open it. Oh my God. He does my trick. Which he does. And when it explodes, Suno suffers burns and shrapnel wounds. Oh my God.

Why would you say, open this book for me? I'm not sure. I guess he was his assistant. Maybe the assistant read the letter out and said, oh, everyone says you should read this book. Open it. Oh, what is it? Or whatever. Yeah. Or maybe, I don't know if he said open this one thing or he said,

Do you mind opening my mail? I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah. But basically, it wasn't him that. I don't think the insinuation. It's him going, that looks us. I'll get my research assistant to open it. As the attacks continue, the bombs continue to become more advanced and damaging.

So all these exposures, they're getting more bigger wounds. More bigger is not what I meant. I changed between more and bigger. They're getting larger wounds. Stop looking at me like that. I can talk. You're doing the report. I'm looking at you because I'm listening.

Anyway, they got more advanced and more damaging. More, more bigger wounds. But till this point, no one had lost their life. To this point. And until this point, no, no, don't say it. All good things come to an end. Oh, my God. As Dave says, which I still can't get my head around.

But anyway. I mean, it softens the blow. I'm ready now. On December the 11th, 985. And it's bomb number 11. Wow. Oh, do you reckon that was on purpose? Maybe.

On December the 11th, 985, computer store owner, Hugh C. Scrutton notices a piece of wood in the parking lot behind his shop. Having seen it as a road hazard, he goes to move it, but unfortunately, there was another unibomer bomb. A piece of wood! The explosion kills Scrutton almost instantly. What? So there's a big, obviously, yeah.

But it just looks. like a piece of wood. Yes. So all of them, all of them, either come in wood boxes. Some of them look like wood's, the cigar box. Yep. But they know, I mean, they know it's a unabomber, but it, wow, okay. I'm just thinking it like it must have really blown up, been a big explosion, maybe not much of it left. Yet they still know that it's the same. Yeah, well, I guess they're still shrapnel. They're picking shrapnel out of the body. Yeah. And they're finding FC written on a part of it.

Not that, I don't know if that's publicly known. At this stage. But apparently it's unmistakable. These are all made by the same. A little over a year later on February 20th, 1987, the same scenario plays out again almost exactly. In another computer store car park, this time in Salt Lake City, the owner Gary Wright goes to move what he believes to be a road hazard,

another chunk of wood. But again, it's a bomb. This time Wright escapes with his life, though he does suffer severe nerve damage to his arm. Whoa. This bombing led to the first major break in the case, as a witness reported seeing a man in the car park moments before the explosion. Based on her description, the now famous sketch of the suspected unabomber was drawn up, a mustachioed man wearing aviator sunglasses and a hooded jumper. Oh, he sounds like he works for the postal service.

Aviators. He's a bad boy. He's a bad boy. Do you reckon then he's been like... That's the sketch. Does that ring a bell to you? This is, when I saw it, I'm like, I've seen that before. It's got really weird teeth. Does he got a tattoo on his head? He's bearing his teeth in that.

Am I looking at it wrong? No, that's his bottom lip. Ah. He looks like DB Cooper got a drug habit. Yeah. No, DB Cooper started dealing drugs. So, okay, so he's in moments before. So does that mean he's like watching them go off as well?

I potentially I mean you can't always if like at the university they're in someone's office Yeah he said one day That computer card thing Was there for five days Yeah that's true

But in this case He certainly would have been aware of it surely Yeah I mean you It would have been in the neighbourhood So he would have at least heard it Yeah It would seem that being cited

Spook the Unabomber So it seems like that sketch Of that person Was him Or at least someone Yeah be involved because after that sketch went public, the bombing stopped, at least for the time B.

Yeah. At this point, yeah. Because there's only been 12 and that's like, I'm okay with that number, but. At that point, you're aiming for 20? No, 15. 15's okay. Yeah, I don't know. You got a problem with a dozen though.

No, no, no, I don't mind 12. But I know there's more. So now he's got to go to at least 15 to 20 for me. That'd be good. 15 or 20. If it's like 17, I'm going to be pretty pissed. You know, you're playing God here. Every extra one is another bomb.

I know, and I don't want that to be the case at all. That's why I wanted to stop now. In fact, actually, I would have, honestly, and I'm putting this out there, I would have loved this to have never happened. I think I would have to say, would have stopped at 10. Well, yeah, sure, if it had to happen. Well, no one would have died then. Yeah, you would just save some lives.

Yeah. Thanks a lot, Jess. Now, because you went for 12, you got greedy. I didn't go for 12. I did not go for 12. He went for 12. Anyway, Matt, do go on. At this point, the FBI have no great leads beyond the sketch.

But they do have what they believe to be an absolute link between the right bombing and the rest of the unibom serial bombings. And according to federal bomb expert Ron Walters, the bombs across the previous nine years display a high level of similarity. Police now have profiled their bomber as a disgruntled academic. I mean, I probably... I would have said academic. Yeah, and I mean, you wrote this. No, this is a quote. This is what the police...

He's some sort of acadalmatian. Like a really smart dog. I reckon like really smart. Like you can build a bomb with a fishing wire. Have you ever seen a dog that smart? Whoa. Three dogs broke into my parents' backyard over the weekend. What?

The next door. Were they a gang? A gang of dogs from next door just like... Where they weren't bandanas? There's two border collies. They weren't the beagle boys. I'm obsessed with border collies. Oh, and they're so clever too.

What was the third one? A husky. Oh, wow. And so the big border collie and the husky get into the backyard. and they were just running around playing and my parents worked out out and then there was like a younger border collie and it was like oh I don't know I'm a bit shy and it was too scared to get in

but then the others were like no come on so then it broke in and my dad went out there and they're all like a friend oh they weren't like run away they were like hey let's play so now I know their names and I went visited my parents today and I stood on their back porch and I could see the dogs and I went Molly and the both dogs looked at me and then they came over and I got to say hi to them it was the best day ever wow

Anyway, I just thought I'd lighten up this bombing episode with a cute anecdote about some border collies. About Aka Delmations. Matt, how much did you enjoy that story? I thought it was great. Three dogs. Three dogs. Hanging out. Zipping around the backyard.

Good things coming three dogs. Oh, man, what a day. One of them is called Molly. Do you know which one? I think the bigger border collie, not the little puppy one. But you don't know the other dogs named? No, I don't. Let's call them both Greg.

Yeah, Greg, Greg, Greg and Molly. Yeah. Greg one, Greg two. You know which one's Greg, too. You know what you did. Anyway, Matt, do go on. So they've profiled the bomber as a disgruntled, what did you call? Academate.

Academation or computer worker. Well, why are they doing the airlines then? Yeah, but are they only assuming that because a couple were at universities and a couple were at computer shops? I guys, like, we've run the data. Two universities, two computer sharps. six weeks later we've got our guy some sort of acedalmatian

this computer's never wrong trust me it's a Dalmatian he's really an Acapella He's got the Dalmatians You're going to talk kid You're going to talk Tells him to put the sketch in the bin

That's not him, no spots No way He's obsessed According to the FBI website the Unabom Task Force grew to include more than 150 full-time investigators. Whoa! Analysts and others. This is how elusive the Unabomber was proving to be.

From History.com, I quote, as FBI criminal profiler James R. Fitzgerald told NPR in 2017, lab tests suggested that the Unabomber had torn the skins off the batteries used and fashioned homemade adhesive by melting down deer hooves. And of course, no finger. prints, no DNA. Nothing like that. It's Cheryl added. Melting down deer hooves.

Right. Just so it's fully untraceable. Classic Dalmatians. They are resourceful. That's weird. That's too much effort, honestly. But I'm a lazy person. Right. I kind of want to move house because there's some mould in mine.

I'm like, no, I'm out. No, that's not lazy. I'm not cleaning it up. I'm going to leave. That's not some moldy. You've got toad soles on your window. It's disgusting. But leaving takes a lot.

Yeah, got back it all up. I just moved to house and it was horrific. Ugh, nightmare. Killed me. You get a fungal expert in. Yeah. They'll fix that. They seem like they'll be fun to chat to.

Oh, yeah. People are passionate about fungal. We're a fun guy. Oh, no. Matt, can you edit in some sort of like, da-da, sound effect? Yes. She did it.

I did it myself. She did it. A fun guy. Yes, that is good. I'll let it out that bit in between. Despite the bomber proving too good at keeping their identity hidden, the FBI were confident. He's a little too good.

The FBI were confident that the unabomber had been raised in Chicago and later lived in the Salt Lake City and San Francisco areas. They weren't sure of their occupation, however, with theories ranging from aircraft mechanic to scientists. And their agenda wasn't clear, though they believed the bomber was most likely male, they were also investigating several female suspects. Women can be bombers too. Six years had passed since the Salt Lake City computer store bombing and the sketch came out.

Six years, wow. And no bombs? No bombs. And do they still have these full-time people trying to crack it all the time? I don't think they ever shut it down. Wow. Nearly six years. Six years passed.

Wait, hang on. Was it six years? Let me just double check that. Say something interesting. I was hoping I'd get it go. You were yawning. I wanted to help you out. Sorry, a bit of a pull behind the curtain there,

but sometimes the three of us feel fatigue. Not me. I only want to get more air in my body. But not to wake me up, just to keep me away. Okay, yeah. So I was over six years. Thank God. When on June the 23rd,

1993, Dr. Charles Epstein, a geneticist at the University of California, received a package at his home in Taburon. Dave, we were alive by this time. I know. We were toddlers. Suddenly we're suspects. Where were you? I don't remember.

How did you? Because Americans listen, they'll be annoyed by how I said that. Tiburin? Tiburon. Tiburon. Tiburon. That's definitely not it. At his home at Tiburon, California.

Tyberon? Tyberon. Tybarong. That sounds like an 80s futuristic company. Don't tweet at us. Hear it, Tybaran. We like to incorporate things. We're from a different country and you'd get Woolamaloo wrong.

We speak different languages. It's fine. Okay. Yeah, no, I don't think people would actually be annoyed. No, but they'll let us know. Yeah, some might maybe will. It's like Australians get annoyed when Americans say Melbourne. We've talked about this before.

I love it. I'm getting over it, like my hatred of it. I used to be pissed off about it, but now because of this, I'm like, oh, that's fair. Because of Tyberon. Of course you'd say it like Melbourne because of how it's spelled. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it sounds silly when you say Melbourne. Yeah, I think it's, I love when Americans say Melbourne.

Melbourne, Australia. Yeah, that's where we live. And thank you for coming. You know, I'm over it now. I've grown as a person. You have grown. You're in your late 20s there. Oh, so late.

So, so late. The clock is ticking. It's our birthday month, Dave. Yes, we're in it. Woo! Gotta be in it to win it. I remember when we were nearly part of the 27 club? In what way?

Well, that we were. 27 and alive. But at any day it could have changed. Yeah, we had 12 good months. And then we turned 28 and we went, whew, can't die now. Yeah, no. You make it this far. You're immortal.

That's my understanding. Oh, yeah. Do not shatter that for me. Well, I've lived a century since. True. So Dr. Charles Epstein. A geneticist at the University of California received a package at his home in Tiberon, California.

His daughter, Joanna, brought it inside before Epstein opened it to find the dreaded wooden box. I mean, a lot of times passed. Yeah, it's over six years. Yeah, I'm thinking like, I've never received a wooden box. But if I was in America at this point, I'd be going wooden box. But obviously, I don't even think,

at that point it was even fully in the you know the public consciousness or whatever uh the resulting explosion he opened it the resulting explosion badly badly damaged epstein's right hand it also broke his arm and caused multiple abdominal addominal injuries broke his arm yes so the force is getting stronger and abdominal abd abdominal issues yeah epstein was well known for his research work in a Down syndrome. So he was quite a famous sort of scientist. According to a 2011 article in the New York Times, I called it articles, this is obituary. I think I was trying to avoid it being sadder than it need to be. But I mean, he lived till these late 70s. In his obituary in the New York Times, it said, after extensive surgery and rehabilitation, Dr.

Epstein was able to resume not only his scientific career, but also playing the cello. And he had pursued passionately since boyhood. That was kind of, it was like, I love when people cop something fuck that is not at all their fault. Yeah. And just fight on it. I feel like I'm kind of person who feels sad for myself for ages. Matt, you've had a cold for two weeks.

I know. And it's the lowest I've ever seen you play the cello in Oprah Fortnight. I'm actually, I'm pretty sure he lost fingers and he re-learned out to play the cello. Yeah, I know what you mean. Because I also think I'd be the type to go, well, that, I'm, That's it for me. But also, who knows? Yeah.

That's true. But anyway, there was something about him. I'm like, oh, what a legend. There's just something, there's something like, that's a feel good movie, him overcoming and finishes with him playing the cello. I'm just glad that he. What feel good movie opens with a man opening a box that has a bomb in? Well, I was just worried when you said his daughter brought it, brought the mail in.

You're saying 12 monkeys? What's the one with the box and the head in it? Seven. Seven. Yeah, I feel good classic Why am I computer most of you? Oh, guy, that was a great ramb. I was worried when he said his daughter brought it in.

I was like, no, don't open it. But I'm glad that it didn't, it wasn't fatal right then. Yes. Only two days after the Epstein bomb, the Unabomber struck again. For the 14th time. This next passage is from a 2007 article on Yale Daily News. Yale could use an international airport. Early in the morning of June 24th, 1993, Yale Computer Science Professor David Galenter

settled in his fifth floor office in Arthur K. Watson Hall at the base of Science Hill. Having just returned from a vacation in Washington, D.C., Galentner found a stack of mail, including a package, a PhD dissertation he assumed, sitting on his chair, ripping open the package, smoke billowed out, and then a flash. Galertner headed to the nearby bathroom to wash his eye before discovering a more pressing concern. He was bleeding profusely. Rather than wait for help to arrive, he hobbled down five flights of stairs.

There's a quote from him. In pain and royally annoyed. He headed across to the university health services. I love royally annoyed. Is that really a quote from him? Yeah. He referred to himself as he moved to justice. Royal Enoch, he moved across the room.

Well, the quote was in pain. Yeah, yeah. It sounded a little bit like he was referring to himself as he. Yeah. So he headed up to University Health Services. Had he waited for help to arrive to him in his office, he likely would have bled to death, doctors told him. My first thought was along the lines of,

bombs must be going off all over campus this morning, Gleitner wrote. It didn't occur to me that I could possibly have been singled out as a target. I was not in a murder-prone line of work. I had no personal enemies. Murder-prone. I had no personal enemies on account not of being lovable, but of being obscure. When he arrived at the clinic, Glartner had a blood pressure reading of zero.

FBI, which I assume is bad. FBI agents later found one of his shoes in his office, where shrapnel slashed through metal filing cabinets. What? So says how lucky he was. They also found his blood, bloodied shirt strewn on the staircase. The bomb had severely wounded his abdomen, chest, face and hand. And even today, this is 10 years ago, even today,

Glertner does not have the use of his right hand. The lasting pain is the primary negative consequence of the Unabomber attack. But the attack also provided Gleutner a new appreciation. for the kindness of his colleagues, students and family saying that crime like this is hideous, but it also illuminates in a rather moving way the capacity for sympathy and support that exists in the community at large. He really appreciates it. Yeah.

Far out. He was another one who, one of his fears, he was a scientist, but he also loved painting and one of his fears he wouldn't be able to do that. But he taught himself to paint with the opposite hand. And now he reckons he paints with it just as well as he did. Wow, these guys are incredible. So obviously, he was in such shock that he just didn't feel the pain of. Yeah, just to him, he thought there was powder going in his eyes,

but it was obviously just a flash and it just happened so quickly that. Wow, he didn't notice until he saw his own body bleeding. Yeah, but it was just heaps of wounds cut him right up. So, ugh. So, yeah, like I say, the bombs are getting increasingly more devastating. Only two days after the last one. Yeah. After a six year break, crazy.

Insane. An LA Times article covering the two 19903 bombings makes it clear that while the FBI could see links between these new attacks and the 80s ones, the idea of the Unabomber was not really in the public's consciousness at this point. This is quoting from the LA Times article. FBI director William Sessions speaking in San Francisco said the agency would go back and look at all bombings of a similar nature, including the series of mail bombs dubbed Unabom. apparently a shorthand for university bombing. So that's the journalist going. Apparently, you know, I haven't heard of it. Right.

Apparently that's shorthand for university bombs, which isn't even quite right. And they spell it uni bomb with an eye. Right. Okay. Right. So there's not even like front page news then? Yeah.

It's been six years. It's any, maybe any worries about it of going away. And journalists now. I just thought it would have been like front page, he's back. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. But it doesn't seem like it is that. God, that's odd.

Hmm. On the same day as the Yale bombing, the New York Times received a letter from someone claiming to be from an anarchist group called FC or Freedom Club. Oh. The letter was mailed from Sacramento just prior to the Yale and Epstein bombs just before they went off. The letter also includes a code that they promise to use in any future communication from the group to prove it's genuine. On December the 10th, 1994, advertising executive Thomas Mosser was in the kiddard. of his family home in North Caldwell, New Jersey. Luckily, his wife and children were in another part of the house when he opened a package

addressed to him. According to the Washington Post, they were preparing to go by a Christmas tree when the explosion occurred, which instantly and brutally killed Mosser. Fuck. His wife rushed in to find the grim scene, a feudal trying to stem the bleeding with a baby's blanket. Oh my God. That's the most...

Just in his kitchen. Yeah. Far out. And what was his occupation, sorry? He was an advertising executive. Right. So, I mean, that's not really... It's a new year, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah, it's completely different. Mosser was 50 and had spent a career at Burson, Marcella, a New York public relations firm. He was a guy who just symbolized, uh, who just symbolized integrity. A very square shooter. A guy who, to my knowledge, had no known enemies, said Harold Burson, co-founder of the firm. So I think that's 15.

Four months later, the Unabomber struck again. And this is from all that's interesting.com. What did I say? The last one was 15. So this one's 16. Yes, that's right. So this is from an article on all that's interesting.com, which I think we've grown to, I mean, Dave, at least, if you're going to quite enjoy.

Enjoy their articles. Great website. We want to peruse for interesting things. Yeah, just and quite in depth on all sorts of things. Well, all that's interesting, I suppose. We only talk about interesting things here. Yeah. On April 24, 1995, Gilbert Murray,

executive director of the California Forestry Association, received a package. It was about the size and shape of a shoebox and wrapped in brown paper. It was oddly heavy, Stranger Still, it was addressed to his predecessor. The previous executive, William Denison, had been a vocal lobbyist for the logging industry for a decade and led the change against environmental groups

in what had been called the Timber Wars. Whereas Denison was contentious, the 47-year-old Murray was by all accounts mild-mannered and well-liked. This doesn't sound good. A little after 2pm, Murray opened the box. A massive explosion ripped through the one-story brick office building, shattering windows and blowing doors off their hinges. Holy shit.

See, that took a step up, didn't that? Murray was killed instantly, the third fatal victim of the Unabomber, the most wanted individual in the United States, whoever they were. Whoa. Also, don't open other people's mail. Not addressed to you. Okay, so I was just moving out of my house, and I found a letter that had been sent from Nandoes to a house that I used to live in,

that I kept because it made me laugh. It was addressed to someone else. But it was from Nando's. And I was like, who writes to Nandoz? So illegally I did open someone else's mail. And they hadn't lived there for years. And it said, congratulations on your redeployment to Nando's. Like they'd been called out of retirement.

They're like to active duty. Yeah, it was my, your redeployment and it referred to their career as a Nandoca. Oh, on the front line. Yeah. Oh, my God. I kept that because it made me laugh. Okay. So someone still is sitting there waiting.

for the call-up. I waited for the call-up, but they stopped living on Oxy Road many years ago. That's great. You should have just wandered in. Took up the post. All right, it's me.

Aaron Peterson, reporting for you. At ease. Saluting the 17-year-old manager of the championship. That's going to come straight out of my pay. It's just dropped into the deep fry. Let's get it out of it. Oh!

Oh. So that week, that Murray was killed with that, probably the biggest explosion so far. That's incredible. The doors off hinges is pretty intense. Wow. Considering it was like the first few were kind of like a bang and they'd go,

ow. Yeah, you go, oh. That was scary. Yeah. Like a party popper has become like a weapon. That's destroying a. building. Yeah.

And a life, more importantly. The Associated Press reported that week that a senior federal law enforcement official in Washington, D.C., said today that bomb experts have confirmed the fatal bomb was indeed sent by the unabomber. His devices are very, very clearly his devices, said the official, who requested anonymity, which I think you can understand why people wouldn't want to be publicly talking, you know, putting their name into the, you know, media about this.

Or their address. The article goes on to say that the Unabomber is thought to be an antisocial white male in his early 40s, showing that the FBI were narrowing in on a profile and that the public was now, now knew the culprit by the Unabomber moniker, as the papers are starting to use that term. Thank goodness. Yeah, it feels like there was a lot going on, obviously, in America back then, but it feels like if bombs were periodically used.

going off in Australia, it feels like it would be front page every day. That's all we talk about. Yeah. The bombs were becoming more deadly, with three of the last six proving fatal for those who opened the packages. On the same day that Murray was killed, the New York Times received another letter from the terrorist group FC. According to the Associated Press article, in a boastful taunting and demanding letter to

the Times, the unabomber claims he belongs to a group that advocates breaking down society into small autonomous units, and he offers to stop the bombings if major print media agree to publish a 37,000-word article espousing his group's views. If the answer is unsatisfactory, we will start building our next bomb, the letter warns. Wee. It also warns that they will be able to pack deadly bombs into even smaller, lighter and more harmless-looking packages. Clearly, he continues, we are in a position to do a great deal of damage.

And it doesn't appear that the FBI is going to catch us anytime soon. The FBI is a joke. Sort of taunting the feds a bit there. He says his group's immediate goal is the destruction of the worldwide industrial system. Through our bombings, we hope to promote social instability in industrial society, propagate anti-industrial ideas, and give encouragement to those who hate the industrial system. So this letter gave the greatest insight yet into the bomber's motivations. It's almost like he literally wanted to blow the world back to the 1700s before the Industrial Revolution.

His motivation is he hates technology. And that starts to make sense some of these targets, computer stores, planes, scientists. Weird, advertising. Yes. Yeah, there are a few that don't quite match, yeah. Turpentine. Yeah. Yuck, big turpentine.

Take him out. The letter also discusses many of the previous bombs, noting that he was disappointed in the limited damage of the bombs in the late 70s and early 80s, saying, Our early bombs were too ineffectual to attract much public attention, or give encouragement to those who hate the system. He also offers an explanation for why there were long gaps between some of the attacks, writing that he took a couple of years off to do some experimenting.

We learned how to make pipe bombs that were, powerful enough and we use the we use these in a couple of successful bombings as well as in some unsuccessful ones. The letter also mentions the failed plane bomb from 1979 saying the idea was to kill a lot of business people who we assumed would constitute the majority of passengers but of course some passengers would likely have been innocent people maybe kids or some working stiff going to see a sick grandmother. We're glad now that the attempt failed.

Oh that's odd. Yeah. He expressed regret that the Vanderbilt University bomb blew up in the hands of the secretary rather than the intended target. But the latter includes no remorse over the more recent bombings writing. When we were young and comparatively reckless, we were much more careless in selecting targets than we are now. So he's got no regrets about the advertising exec or the timber man. This is from the Associated Press again. The letter also discussed the December killing of advertising executive Thomas Mosser in New Jersey,

claiming his public relations firm Burson Maasteller had represented Exxon in the Exxon Valdez oil spill disaster. While the Times said that the claim was incorrect, the letter leveled broader accusations against Berson Marcella, claiming Mossett was targeted because his company was responsible for manipulating people's attitudes. Oh, wow. So it just sort of like, it seems like a real scattergun. Yeah. On the university attacks, the letter stated,

some news reports have made the misleading statement that we have been attacking universities or scholars. We would not want anyone to think that we have any desire to hurt professors who study archaeology, history, literature, or harmless stuff like that. The people we are out to get are the scientists, the engineers. He really hates technology then.

Yeah. God, that's strange. That's really weird. I'd be going after maths. You're going to bomb maths back to the day and age. Get rid of it. Long division. What?

The second time we mentioned maths today. I know. It's on my brain. You got maths on the brain? We got maths on the brain. Interesting. Investigators by this stage had also noted the bomber's fixation with wood. As well as disguising all the bombs inside wood

I love wood P.S. I love wood. I've got wood for wood. As well as disguising all the bombs inside wood, they also noted a few direct and incidental things linking his victims to wood. For instance, Murray worked for the timber industry. Obviously that's a pretty direct one.

He was, you know, in a pro-logging organisation. But then Mossa lived on Aspen Drive. I think Aspen's a type of wood. Associated Press goes on to say, that earlier victims included a man named wood and the unabomber has used phony return addresses on his bombs such as Ravenswood and Forest Glen Road. One bomb was encased in a book cover embossed with a tree leaf

and many of his bombs have included unusual wooden parts and an early bomb had twigs attached. Right, okay. One of the ones that didn't go, maybe that, you know, Salt Lake City Uni one. Maybe he lives in the forest. I mean, do you have to put a return address on things? Well, I think that was one of his tactics.

I guess in part to make it look real, but sometimes he used the return address to get it to his internet target. Yeah, like that first one. Yeah, sometimes he didn't put enough postage on it, enough stamps. So it would be sent back. Oh. Yeah. Weird.

The timing of the... Just send it to him. Yeah, I guess it just puts people off the sense somehow. Harder to track? Yeah. I don't know. Anyway. Yeah, I'm not sure.

I don't know. Imagine if you put his real return address on there. Just one time, just absentmindedly. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So Derek Smalls. Damn it! He's the bass player from it.

I was trying to make up a name and I said the spinal type guy. The timing of the letter is also interesting, as it was sent the day after the Oklahoma bombing, which killed 168 people. Though his letter makes no mention of this attack, some believe that it's what triggered him to send it, as the Oklahoma bomber was getting a lot more attention than him. And if you remember back to my Waco Siege report, the Oklahoma bombing was a revenge attack for the events at Waco. So a lot of these events are sort of kind of linked. Yeah, wow. So back to the demand from FC in the letter I said publish the manifesto or expect more. But they send the manifesto as well?

I don't know if they sent it then, but they were going to send it or they had sent it. I'm not, I should know that. Because how else can the newspaper be like, how can they, how do they communicate with them and be like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I feel like, I feel like they, I'm guessing they did. It was all there together, but maybe they had another system, I'm not sure. So according to the FBI website, there was a lot of debate about whether or not they should give into the terrorist demands. But in the end, FBI director Louis Free, or Lewis Free, an attorney general, Janet Reno, approved the task force's recommendation to publish the essay in hopes that a reader could identify the author. So they're like, I mean, on the one hand, if it does stop the bombings, that's obviously good.

Yep. On the other hand, it might actually help us find them. So they're kind of looking at like a win-win in a way. Yeah. But it was still took it. There was a lot of arguing as to whether or not it was the right move. Because the idea of that was to sort of, what the bomber would be thinking was to motivate other people to sort of join them, right? Yeah, I guess so.

But honestly, it's so long. No one's reading that. 37,000 words, yeah. No, no one's reading that in the paper, you know? Yeah. I skip, I read the headlines, I read what I'm interested in, I read the cartoons. I'll stop the bong if you, let me publish this comic. Three panels.

Then they might get three to people. Let me write Garfield this week. You know what? No, just make it the horoscopes. Then you can get people on your side. Yeah. Because I'm always like, such bullshit. But unless if it sounds good to me, I'm like, yes.

Yes, Virgo. You will get rich. If I don't like Virgo, I'll read Leo as well because I'm on the cuff. Oh, right. You can get a bit of that if you're on the cusp. I claim it. I'm on the cusp of Libra and then one after Libra. Okay, cool.

Yeah. I think I'm only like, how close you have to be for the cusp? I'm like three days off. I'm two. Oh, you're even cuspur than me. Yeah, I'm even cuspur. Cusper the friendly. It's up to the 24th.

And I'm honestly Such a Leo But Rour Got a bit of Virgo in me too You know I love to plan Ah the virgin lion

Yeah that's me I'm a virgin lion Virgin in the sheets Lion in the Streets Yeah Yeah that's you I don't get it

Given the green light You just made it this funniest noise It sounds like To be honest a lion I'm still a bit sick, sorry That is why I've been misreading My own words a lot Is that been annoying?

No, no at all I don't think we've noticed It would be just as bad as usual Yeah, it's no different really Maybe you're just suddenly aware of it Honestly, you do this all the time. Can I write the reports, Dave, and you read them out? Maybe your reports aren't that good. You're just a good reader with words.

That's probably it. Cut that, Dave, I guess. Or not, I'm not sure. Thank you so much. Got him. I love to read words. Out loud. Anyway,

Ra. Given the Green Light, the Washington Post and the New York Times both published The Manifesto titled Industrial Society and its Future on September 19, 1995. That wasn't the truth. title that was when it was popular. I would love. It was a polyform sentence. Is, have you read it? Is it like the technology it refers to so outdated now it sounds funny?

Fax machines. Put them in the bin. Okay, we will. Floppy discs out the window. All right. Get that beeper. Chuck it in the river. No, put it in the river. We want the rivers. Put it in landfill. Oh, no. I'm creating more waste.

Burn it. Oh, it's probably dangerous. It's been a little plastic. What am I talking about? I'm setting bombs off everywhere. Who am I to do it? judge. In it, the writer described their group as the Freedom Club or FC, and the initial, you know, the initials etched into the bombs. As Hope, the publishing of the essay led to many new leads coming.

I mean, there's also so many articles critiquing the essay. A lot of people who are like, this is, some people saying it's ranings of a madman. Other people going, it makes a lot of good points. If this is a madman, then so is Carl Marx. This is a madman, then call me mad. Man. There are people who still study it and apparently it was put into a book and sold thousands of copies. Holy shit. Wow.

I think the bummers like, can the royalties be forded to this address? Woodwood Street, Woodtown. Oh, no. For Woody Wooderson. As hoped, the publishing of the essay led to many new leads coming from the public who believed they recognize the ideas and all writing style. of the work. According to the FBI, thousands of people suggested possible suspects.

How many friends would you recognize their writing style? Wow. Yeah, it's a... I feel like that's at a different time, right? Recognise Matt's from all the mistakes. Oh, he kept stumbling here. I'd recognize your reading style anyway. What is this? How do you say this? I've never said this out loud. That's all written in the report, there.

What is this? How do you say that? Mine's just a rant about, maths and accountants. And you're like, okay. All right, Bob. So you're also anti-mathematicians and accounts? No. Just accounts.

Oh, I thought you were just making me linked to the Unabomber. No. Okay. No, no. Mathematicians are fine, I guess. They're just nerds. They haven't said anything about hating mathematicians or accountants yet. One person who thought she recognized the language using the manifesto was a woman named

Linda Patrick. Noticing similarities to, her letters her husband David Kaczynski received from his older brother Ted. Bringing this to her attention, bringing this to her husband's attention, David was dubious saying, I thought I was going to read the first page of this, turn to Lina and say, see, I told you so. But on an emotional level, it just sounded like my brother's voice. History.com describes David's brother Ted as a precocious math genius raised in the Chicago area.

Oh, I don't think they'd have an article on him. he wasn't significant. Good point, Dave. He had won a scholarship to attend Harvard University at the age of 16 and in 1967 became the youngest ever professor of mathematics at the University of California, Berkeley. Whoa. But just two years later, he left modern society behind to live in the woods.

That's what you said. Growing, foraging and hunting his own food. I hate it when you're surprised that I've said something genius. All right, well, let me just say. That's what just said. The idiot. The professional people were looking for a Dalmatian. True.

And you listened to this and you found them in the woods. Just on a pod. A comedian on a podcast figured it out. He's in the woods. It was pretty. Let's go get him. You've said a few things where I've been like, oh my God. When you said maths a few times and when you said it, it sounds like someone living in the woods.

I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, guys, you need to understand that I'm so smart. The people at home have always known that. I think you just know too much. You know who else is really smart? Ted? Yeah. Ted Kaczynski.

Because I've never heard his name said out loud. Maybe Kaczynski. Kaczynski. So his IQ apparently is a little higher than Stephen Hawkins. Whoa. Okay. I mean, he was a 16-year-old. Yeah.

Yeah. So. Wow, that's pretty impressive. After much soul searching, David provided some of Ted's letters to the FBI as a writing sample. They found them to be a very close match. with similar words misspelled and similar phrasing and even content matter. Wow. That would be hard, like, dobing in your brother.

He apparently took him months to decide. I'd throw my brother straight under that bus. They were a strange for me. Any change for a reward? Oh, yeah, I'd wait for them to be like, we'll give you money for it. Then I'd be like, take him. He made a deal with them. He said, um, no death penalty.

Oh. And he, I think he really loved his brother. Of course. But he was, you know, he was, obviously he was living in a whole other world. Yes. Anyway, so those samples of his writing was enough to organise a warrant for the FBI. And on April the 3rd, 1996, Ted Kaczynski was arrested at his shack near Lincoln in rural Montana. Wow.

Due to the nature of the crimes being investigated, it was a painstaking search with agents wary of booby traps and live explosives. Yeah, that's what you'd be scared of with. somebody like this. They x-rayed everything as they went just to make sure. And this proved wise. Every piece of wood could have a bomb. Yeah, exactly. Anything could be a bomb.

And you said it proved to be wise. Proved to be wise. According to Smithsonian.com, inside the cabin, they found bomb-making materials, a live bomb ready for mailing, which they luckily realized. The original manifesto manuscript, which is obviously a pretty handy piece of evidence. Yeah. And 40,000 pages of journals recording Kazitsky's daily life, his bombing campaign, his anger. Oh my God.

So a big confession. Yeah. The Freedom Club, it emerged, had a membership of one. Yeah. Whoa. Oh, wow. He was the first member. Yeah.

Founding. The founding member. He's always talking in the plural we, the Freedom Club, but it was only ever him. So after using so many clever tricks to hide his identity, it was his own words that brought him undone. His 17-year reign of terror, resulting in the deaths of three people and the injuries of 23 others was finally over. So he was at the cabin and was just arrested on the side? In the doorway, yeah. Wow.

And he really, like he was really anti-technology. There was no plumbing, electricity, anything. He went, he hunted squirrels and ate berries. He just lived full, you know, pre-industrial world lifestyle. Far out. Apparently, I read somewhere that one of the things, he moved out there, I think, before he started sending the bombs. And one of the things that maybe started triggering him was he was like living in quite a secluded error. And more and more there'd be like RVs coming through.

And he'd have more people and sort of encroaching on his space, I guess. Wow. But obviously he... With fax machines. But he's traveled distances to... Yeah. Well, a couple of them seem like they've been dropped off. Yeah, that's right.

I mean, that sketch, I think, was of him. I think. Yeah. But then others, obviously, it's easy to mail it. But like, what's he... But I mean, he's also like, I mean, he's an ex-un. He worked at a university. He sort of, as far as anyone knows,

he's a respectable guy who's decided to go live in the woods. Do they ever know how he chose the professors and things that he sent them to? Sort of. Just continue as you've written it, I reckon, and you'll give us the information that we want. Okay. Sorry, we're just so fascinated. Yeah, I know. Some, um, that a little. I'm a bit spooked actually. Yeah, me too. It's been, um, yeah, some of it's so heartbreaking, reading the accounts of the victims and, um, uh, that's Christmas one especially really. That's awful. Absolutely hard. I mean, they all are, but that one.

especially, I don't know, just was like, oh my God. On a more immediate level, though, after we finish recording tonight, I have to go to work at Triple J, where I am alone on the fourth floor in the dark. With a lot of wood. For six hours. But also a really good security team. One of whom listens to this show.

Yeah, he does. And he's a legend. He calls me Mr. Stewart when I come in. He calls me Bop. That's interesting. It's a little more comfortable with you, obviously. Yeah, but I'm there a lot more. Oh, okay.

That makes sense. We talk footy. Okay. Normally it's like him trying to pet me up. Oh, saints are looking now. They're looking. He's sweet. He's such a sweet man.

For me, it's usually him going, you can do this. Hang in there. I know it's very early in the morning. You get to go to bed soon. It's that sort of chat for us. Yeah, because I look very depressed because I'm tired. Well, I think it's similar reason for him talking up the saints to me. So once they had their man, once they had their man,

And once I had their man, the FBI realized that Kaczynski's unusual biography had also helped him from being discovered, as history.com explains. Though computers had helped the FBI compile a vast list of potential suspects based on the targets. All dogs. Different kinds of dogs. Yeah. They were like, let's expand this beyond just Dalmatian. I think it could be a miniature snows. So they were working off based on the targets and also the locations of the attacks.

And Ted's name was actually on the list. It was. Yeah. But investigators, I mean, it was a long list. Yes. But investigators had believed they were looking for a man some 10 years older than he was. Right. We felt strongly that his origins were in Chicago.

The FBI's Jim R. Freeman told the Times in 1998. How could we know he went to Harvard when he was 16 years old? Yeah. So that threw him right out. All their timelines was, I think they, thought it was. Oh, because he was the youngest ever. Yeah.

So they're thinking, so that, that was one of the things that threw them off the sand a little bit. Um, this next section comes from, uh, Smithsonian.com. Uh, and it's, uh, discuss as a trial. But maybe I didn't talk about what was your question before? Cause I mean, I, I, oh, my question before was just how he picked those random, different professors and things. Well, it does seem like some of them will literally pick because they had some sort of wood connection.

It seems like maybe he did pick wood because he's certain. name was wood. Oh, God. The timber industry, some of them was like he, he read an article saying that that PR firm tried to rehabilitate the image of Exxon, which was not true. That article he quoted was false. And even the firm that, he misspelled the firm's name, which was the same misspelling from this article that falsely.

Oh, man. So we just had bad information. Imagine writing that article and then later finding out that your false article resulted in that. And others were like he did teach it, like some of the universities that he spent time at. There were places he was around, so maybe he was just familiar with them. But yeah, a lot of them was just like, I've looked it up in a phone book. This guy works as the head of science. I'm anti-science.

I think a lot of it was that sort of random. Oh, that's not good. And that's why some of them were like, I can't, like people going, how was he a target? He's got no enemies. But it was just, yeah, relatively random. And often it was sort of like, they don't even work in areas of science that are even that controversial at all. Like they're trying to help people. But yeah, he just wasn't able to draw the distinction or I'm not sure.

So, yeah, this next part, I'm quoting from an article written by journalist William Finnegan, who discussed the trial. That's what he said. Kazitsky was put on trial in federal court in Sacramento in late 1997. The government sought the death penalty, breaking an agreement with David Kazitsky to forego it. David and their mother, Wanda, came to court each day, but Ted, sitting a few feet away, never acknowledges him. His demeanor in court was polite, attentive, calm. The Shaggy Hermit, whose picture had been broadcast across the world, now looked and acted like a mild professor.

A jury was selected, but the trial proper never started. But Kazitsky was locked in a procedural battle with his own lawyers, the prosecutors, and ultimately the judge about his defense. His court-appointed lawyers believed his best chance of avoiding the death penalty was to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. Being labelled mentally ill was Kazitsky's worst fear. He tried to fire his lawyers in favor of a private attorney willing to let him risk execution to present his case, which was a political argument relying on the manifesto explaining why he thought his actions were necessary. But the judge denied the change of counsel, which I found must be so frustrating. I was like, but it's for me.

I want to change my lawyer. No, you're not allowed to. A psychiatric evaluation ordered by the court diagnosed Kaczynski as paranoid schizophrenia. Kaczynski asked to represent himself. The judge denied this request too. Checkmated. Kaczynski pleaded guilty rather than hear himself represented at the trial as insane. Whoa. He'd been denied his day in court, I thought. This is still the journalist William Finnegan's words. He'd been denied his day in court, I thought, because nobody in power wanted to hear

his political message. His lawyers, all talented idealists, just wanted to to save his life. The prosecutors had begun to doubt that they could achieve their goal, a death sentence at trial. So they were just now hoping to get life. The judge did not want to see his courtroom become Kaczynski's soapbox. And in the end, each faction avoided the outcome it feared. On May the 4th, 1998, Kaczynski received four life sentences. I also read in other places, including Wikipedia, that he got eight life sentences, but I guess... Right. And it's double, but I think it means the same thing.

Yeah. But avoid the death penalty. Yes. Right. Yeah. It seems like everyone sort of got their way apart from him in that case. He was like he didn't get to, he wanted to defend his actions, which I imagine would have been very hard to do. Yeah.

But not to his reasoning. To him, I think maybe he feels like he could be like, well, here's why. And people would go, all right. understandable. Yes. You can have 20 years. Right. But also,

and I guess that's what the judge was. The judge didn't want him to use his cordis, his own soapbox, because that would have been him. Yeah. I can't imagine he would have been concise about it either. Yeah. It's not like, um,

it's not like ideas of, of technology has gone too far and modern life aren't unpopular. Mm. You know, people, especially people as they get older, seem to think more that way all the time. But obviously not like this, but it is a pretty popular idea that technology is fucking up people's lives. Yeah, big time.

So yeah, that's where he still is now. He's incarcerated in a Supermax prison. I think he's 78 now. And according to Finnegan, he remains a prolific writer, corresponding in longhand with hundreds of people and producing essays and books. In a report for the 50th reunion of his class at Harvard, Kaczynski gave his occupation as prisoner. Under awards, he listed his life sentences. Whoa.

So he says there's a badge. I'm not, yeah. It's either, it's dark humor at the very least. Yeah. A badge at the worst. Weird. Yes, but he's, I mean, there's, like I was thinking about writing a whole other a few pages about the people who kind of follow his his work and there you know there are groups online

who are dedicated to his basically his teachings and stuff ironically on the internet but um yeah but that's troubling yeah so there's a there's he's he does have a leg i mean he's obviously a very good communicator he sounds like he responds to everyone um that journalist himself um um um try to talk to him early and eventually they did communicate back and forth a fair bit. Wow. Yeah. So it's a, it's a wild story. And it's amazing that the, I think the only time, the only reason I've heard the word

Unabomber was Dave Letterman saying to Joaquin Phoenix on that famous, remember that not, I'm not there. I'm not there when he was interviewed. Yeah. Old Letterman. Letterman said something like, oh, the Unabomers in tonight or something like that. And I, I didn't get the reference. It's edgy, Dave.

Yeah, damn. Yeah, and that was all I knew about it. So I was actually surprised to see it. One, the vote, the other, the other one I put up that I thought was going to win was the Black Dahlia murder, which has been requested so many times. I'm kind of glad you didn't do it. You would have probably upset you, I think. Would it? Yeah, right.

It's very violent death. Right. I mean, there were plenty of those here too. Yeah, true. True. Wow. Wow. Well, Matt.

You did a great job with the report. though. I like the way, I like the way you were. Yeah, that was great. And you really didn't, yeah,

it was good, you didn't skip over any of the bombs. Yeah. But also, I'm a genius and I picked it all. Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing how you would,

yeah, I can't remember what you said about the maths, but it was like, oh, that feels kind of, kind of intuitive. But yeah, you generally just.

My strength is people. Yeah. I read people well. So straight away, I'm like, ooh, ooh, oh,

what am I hearing here? What am I not hearing here? Active listening. That's what it is. Oh. I see. Well, expect the call from the FBI. I'm feeling the letter A.

Is anyone recently last someone? I didn't say I'm psychic or a medium. What's not being said here? Ghosts. What's not being said here? Which letter of the alphabet? No one's saying they're enjoying this. Okay.

Okay. Oh, that stuff is real hard to watch when it's going badly. Oh. Imagine the edited and, you know, the TV specials that end up. There was popular primetime TV for a little while. John Edwards. Crossing over. Amazing.

Yeah. The edited out parts would have been brutal. A, I meant B. Yeah, those editors are kind. And still it was an awkward watch from the small parts I saw. But good on John Edwards, if you are listening. Yeah, I'm assuming he is. You're doing great work.

Well, yeah, that's the thing. He knows. He's trying not to. He's trying to tune us out, but. He's just trying to chill out. He's in the bath. Having to soak in the tub. Yeah, it would be very frustrating.

A glass of vino in the tub. People are talking about me. Again, leave me alone. I'm soaking in the tub. John Edwards, you're living a great life. Yeah, that's the dream. I think he's a millionaire from all that lying. Dave, Dave, the skeptic.

Oh, bad boy. Well, that is the end of the report. Thank you so much for listening. And, you know, what happens after? the report. Oh, do go on after dark. Yeah, it's the after show, which starts with the fact, quote, or question segment. Dave, can you explain it while I cough?

Okay, well, Matt coughs away there. The fact, quote or question segment is part of our Patreon reward system. Now, we've got a few tiers. If you want to support the show, you listen every week and you think it's a good thing you want to keep going after all these years, you can go to Patreon.com slash do go on pod. You chip in a couple of bucks each month. Two bucks, five bucks, ten bucks, whatever it is. And at those different levels, you get different rewards,

including you get to vote for the topics like Matt said this week. You get two bonus episodes at a certain level. You get shoutouts. You're part of the Facebook group on Patreon where people discuss all things do go on and even something's not related to do go on, but it's still fun in there. Could there be fun things that aren't to go on? I don't think so, no. That's why I chuckled and Dave said, oh, it's still fun.

It's like he's just being kind. And also Matt does a thing called the fact. quote or question segment where people at the Sydney-Shineberg Deluxe package Rest in Peace Memorial level submit a fact quote or a question for Matt to read out and also they give themselves a title that's right that same level also gets to vote on two of the topics so there's one lower level gets to vote every third week but on the Sydney-Schenberg level they get to vote two out of the three weeks topics and that was they were the group who voted for today's one so it came it's a small

group and you know came down a only a handful of votes so if you want to feel powerful the Sydney-Shineberg Memorial Rest and Peace level is for you. This week it is a good friend of the show Gary Jay who is our

fact quote or question who we met over in the where do we meet him I think it was I feel like it was in Birmingham. Gary Jayne I reckon I might have been Birmingham we met him with his girlfriend who was I love meeting the past who has no interest.

Yeah, that's the best. My favourite is when they're very happy to tell you as well. I don't know what this is. I've never listened to this. Okay, thank you. That's fine. That's okay. I'm not saying that Gary J's partner did that,

but it's just funny when people are so ready to tell you they do not give a shit about you. Yeah, and it's like, thank you so much. I imagine it's, if I'm putting myself in their shoes, I reckon it's them getting on the front foot so they're not feeling caught out. Yeah, sure. Don't ask me anything. I did you know. Okay, sorry.

Honestly, I'm not offended. I'm snapping chucking. off here because I'm... You've been wearing the loudest jacket imaginable and now you just... At one point as while I was talking, I was doing exercise. Do you see that? Yeah. Oh, no, I didn't have to see it.

I heard it. Sorry, I've got a sawback from lifting boxes all day. Well, luckily you're wearing salafane. Why didn't you call me out? I had no idea. Let's snap off some loud chalky there. It's the... If he gets chocolate, could I have chocolate while you read the fact quote of question?

Yeah, of course. Yes. Go for it. There's two pieces for you there. Mine. So this is from Gary J. And you, like Dave said, you also get to give yourself a title. And Gary Jay has given himself the title,

Gaddy J from the UK. I don't know if that's right, but he said Gary J from the UK, bracket in a Ben Russell British accent. But I'm not sure. I reckon he went for a Geordy Shore. Okay. I thought you go in Liverpool. Gary J from the UK.

Blunk, Blunk, Blunk. There was that character on character, Jordan Shaw. Gattie. Gattie. I think it's from, is it snatch? You're right there, Gary, you know, mate. There's that sort of, sort of enforce a duo. And one of them, Gary, I think, I can't really, gets, like, shot through his afro or something.

And his partner's like, you know, there, Gary, you know, mate. Anyway, Gary J from the UK. I thought you said snatch, and I had no idea what you're talking about. You talked about snatch. I think you're actually thinking of Lockstock. Oh, right. I do get those two confused. Great.

I love them both. I wonder if they held up. Do you know? Have you seen him lately? I'm pretty sure it's lockstock. Great. Well, this week, Gary has chosen a fact. Love that, Gaz. Hit us with the fact, Maddie.

All right, Gaddy. Gaddy writes, I'm cheating a bit. There's two facts about sloths. I love sloths. And I want to ask Jess if either of them are fun. Bracket. Matt and Dave can answer if they want, but we all know Jess knows a fun fact from a dud fact.

Thank you, Gary. Yes. Just true. Fact number one. Sloths are three times faster in water than on land. That's interesting. Wow. So that's three times is a lot faster.

They're quite good swimmers. But they're going to, they are very slow on land. So maybe they're just like, I mean, they're not Olympians. Right. But they're like, they're reasonable. They could probably out swim me. I was going to say they're faster than me for sure. Is that all, is it the same for old people?

You know, you see old people at the pool. Fuck. Great point. Yeah. Aquacize. whatever it's called. And they're like moving with such agility. Yeah.

All right. Give me the second fact and I'll decide. Fact number two. Yeah, you can also choose your favorite. Because that one's fairly fun. I reckon I can be out fun. I had fun with it. Fact number two, sloths can hold their breath for up to 40 minutes,

20 minutes longer than a dolphin. What? I think that might have elevated it for me. Yeah. They can hold their breath longer than a dolphin. And dolphins live in water. Yeah. Did you know that?

Like exclusively. If you take them out of water, they like die. No. Yeah, no shit. Can we fact check that, please? I was watching some David Attenborough on Netflix yesterday. And like, I forget which one of this series, but it was the opening one. There was a lot of montages.

And one of them was of this huge pot of dolphins. It looked like there were 10 million of them. That's awesome. I could be exaggerated, but there were a lot. And it was sick. I'm like, I didn't realize dolphins swam in like thousands of. Dolphins are awesome. When I was in New Zealand going along a boat, where was I?

Franz Joseph. And there was a couple of dolphins right next to the boat and right where I was standing. So everyone else was like, oh, someone's so a dolphin, where is it? And they're trying to look around. And I was like, it's right here. And I didn't have to move. And you weren't telling anyone. God, no.

I think it's over the other side. I was like, this is my dolphin now. And I still have that dolphin. It's been very quiet lately. Anyway. I got a dead dolphin. in my bath. Could have turned the tap on.

Oh. I forgot. Oh, okay. Well, it's probably for the best. That's no life for a dolphin. I get at home. So many questions. Gary, I would say, and this is also because I like you as a person, those are fun facts.

Yeah. Gary's just a fun guy. If you imagine Gary telling us those facts, I'm having fun with you. Yeah, I'm having a good time. Thank you so much, Gary, you're bloody legend. And if you want to get involved on the fact quote or question, go to Degorm. What is it? Patreon.com slash 2-Go-on-Pod

and sign up on the Sydney-Sharnberg level. You can also get bonus episodes, all sorts of things. What's the bonus episode level, Dave? It's DB Cooper. No. Yes, yep, that's right. The DB Cooper level or above. And we put out two every single month,

and there's a whole bunch in the back catalog that are still up there at the Mo. You want to check them out? Get on it. Yes. And they're fun. We do at least one report every single month, and we've covered some cool topics.

We really have. Our most recent ones are the nanny and, like, it's in the TV. show yes Matt did the full report. Yeah I did the full report on the origins of the nanny. That was fun and Jess what was your most recent one? It was about the Harry Houdini. Yeah, it was. The ape escape artist. Yeah, that was fun. That was fun. That was fun. And we played a game of Would You Rather where we laughed, I laughed so hard, but I was going to spew. One of our biggest laughing episodes in a while. I love that feeling. Often, I reckon the bonus

episodes we laugh bigger on there for some reason. Yeah, we just feel more comfortable. We feel more at home. Maybe that's what it is. The other thing we like to do, at the end of our episodes is like a few of our other patrons. And we do that with a little fun game that just comes up with. Oh, yeah, but I don't know how I'm going to make the Unabomber a fun game. Right. Well, I mean, you could... Ooh.

Well, he loved wood. Yeah. What did they make their bombs? Maybe you could use Gary's fact, maybe a sloth or dolphin-related. name or Or like maybe they're Who they can hold their breath longer than Yes

Great, let's do that Who or what Sloths can hold their breath longer than dolphins But who Can from Little Rock, Arkansas Ryan Badami Who can he hold his breath longer than Ryan can actually hold his breath longer than

Another famous Ryan Ryan gozzling Oh the goose The Gauze Yeah Yeah. Yeah. No shit, man.

No shit. I'm just going to cycle back around just in case and say Ryan Badami, Ryan Bidami, Rian Badami. Badami. Ryan Bada ma'amie. Bad Amy. Bad Amy. Bad Amy.

Bid Amy. It's probably Bad Amy. Bidami. Thanks, Ryan. And congrats on that breath holding competition with Gosling. And I hope he was nice in person. I bet he would be. He seems all right.

He seems pretty dry. Oh, yeah. I love a dry humor. That's why I can't hold his breath that long under water. Too wet under there. Too wet. On land, he can hold it forever. Yeah.

He's never breathed. Put him in water, he panics. He's never breathed. He's never breathed. Thank you so much, Ryan. Better me. And I'd also love to thank from Rivervale in Western Australia, Sean Brown. Sean Brown.

I reckon I'm nailing that pronunciation. Dave. Just in case, Cianne Brun. Brawn. Brawn. Dave, who or what can Sean hold his breath longer? I reckon Sean Brown can hold his breath longer than Lenny Kravitz. Really?

But shorter than Merrill Streep. Yeah. If I want to put it on the international scale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's in it. So that's a pretty small zone because I know Merrill and Lenny, I think, within 20 seconds of each other. He's banging the middle. Yeah.

Wow. That's a middle I'd love to bang in. I appreciate that. I like it when you confuse yourself. Oh, that's no good. Is that anything? I'd like to just to quickly shout out to Sean Brown by saying, Gold Sean Brown.

Sort of golden brown. Nearly works. I don't get it. There's a song Golden Brown. I mean, I don't know if you could have got it, to be honest. That was one of the worst things you've ever said. I don't think it's that bad. Do you remember?

I stand by that. UK had a prime minister called Gordon Brown. That one is fine. Gordon Brown Text to like son But Sean That is good Yours is really good

Mine's only quite good Well I don't know about that I feel like mine's so good That definitely wasn't me Who would have noticed it That's how good it is But

Thank you to Sean Brown Thank you to Sean Brown Can I thank some people as well Yes please I would like to thank From the Isle Of white Oh white

We've gone brown to white I'd like to thank Harry Green Brad to White to Green Braddoward to Great And Harry, Matt, can hold his breath longer than Seals Yeah The singer?

Yeah, all of the seals You were saying the animal Well, I was saying the animal But that actually does also can't seal Because seals can hold their breath longer than seal Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're all clouted. They're all clouted and also counted.

He goes to SeaWorld and he's like, I'll show you how it's done. Seal world? There's a world of seals? Yeah, it's crazy. I bet they don't treat them humanely. Definitely not. Thank you very much to Harry in the Isle of Wight. And I'd also like to thank from Loveland.

What? C-O, Colorado? Yeah, but Love. getting better at states. Love land. Jess, you know I love to love. I know you love. And I love to love, love land.

Love land. Can we go there on the tour? Dave, are we, any updates? Are we going to America yet? I've emailed some more people. Dave. Their people have said they'll email my people. We've got a connection this time, but I still haven't heard back.

But from Loveland. It's like bang in the middle of the country. Look at that. Love land. Love land. I would like to thank Thomas. Cougan. Oh, Coogan.

I like Coogan as a name. Yeah, it's great. It's north of Boulder, Colorado, which is north of Denver, Colorado. Right. Love Land. Well, when I think of love, I think of the sexy man himself, Barry White. Oh. Who, love those snakes.

Let's hear it for the snakes. Anything for a lady. Who could hold his breath famously quite long because of his deep, deep voice and beautiful lung capacity. Yeah. But, uh, My darling. Thomas Coogan is one of the only people.

Can't get enough for Thomas Coogan, baby. One of the only people this side of Denver, Colorado, who can hold his breath longer than the Great Barrier Wild. Wow. Thomas Coogan. Let's see your pipes. Great pipes. Great, great.

Thomas Coogan, when Dave organized this tour, I mean, we're promised so many places, but I'd love to drop by Loveland. I mean, is that, so that's somewhere near Blusifer? Yeah, not that far from Denver. We got to get to that airport. And while we're at that airport, we've got to go for the couple of hour drive to Love Land. Yeah, we must.

We simply must. Let me tell you how long that will take. Thomas Coogan. The Golden Mile Girl. I don't want to upset you. What? But there's also a Love Land in Ohio. Whoa.

I think that. Sorry, Cougs. Sorry, Coogs, but we'll never see you. There's a love land in Ohio. Can you marry a town? Between Cincinnati and Dayton, love land. Oh, I forget how much good stuff is in our hide. They got Dayton.

They got Dayton there and Cincinnati, Sin City. If I never had Vermont, then we'd be happy. Oh, but it's so close. It may as well be there. Let's stretch that border. Okay. I would like to thank, finally, to bring us home to beautiful people. I love land and I love these people.

From Concord, California, let me say Concord to Thomas Amher. Ambrose. Another Thomas. Do we do a bit of, do we communicate with Thomas Ambrose a bit? I feel like that name comes up a bit. Didn't know us recognising that? Yeah, I'm recognising the name. Tom Ambrose.

Appreciate your love to support. Thomas Ambrose from Concord, California and Jess. Thomas Ambrose can of course famously hold his breath longer than. Thomas Edison. Oh, wow. Really? Really. Tom on Tom action.

Honestly, and nothing against Thomas Ambrose because he actually can hold it for quite a long time. But Thomas Edison, not very long. at all, like 20 seconds. Because he's dead? Or no, this is in his living. He's dead? Only the good die young. Sadly, all good things must.

Come to him. Thomas Ambrose. Thank you so much for your support. And I would like to thank, if I may. Please. Matt, you were going to say something about Thomas Ambrose. Bring him home. Oh, no, yeah, I was just, because Ambrose is a kind of scoring golf that I don't think I've

ever. There's an, there's an, why have scoring in golf called Ambrose. So you can play Amber. I don't know if that's the one where it's like four ball best ball, or the one where you, you know, you all hit and then the best one you all hit from that spot. I reckon the best way for us to figure this out is for Dave to thank the final person.

Oh, great. I love that about it. Okay. I'll bring us home. Okay. With a shout out to a beautiful place, probably a beautiful person. San Diego, California.

A Wales vagina. I was hoping you'd take us there. It's hard not to. Yeah, so sorry, San Diego. That's funny every time. except it was in a gift form. I once said something like that on primates when Ben Russell was on, and he goes,

what are we just quoting movies now? He can turn on you real fast. Almost faster than me. Ben Russell will turn. I can't remember if I edited that out for embarrassment or not. Because I don't edit that show normally, but I can't remember that that one. It was almost like, oh, Ben Russell, he's right.

What are we doing here? But do go on as a much friendlier place. Which wonderful citizen of San Diego, San Diego. I'd like to thank citizen number 1,960, which is pretty early for a city of that size. Janet Olson. I've got one. Janet Olson.

Okay, Janet Olson can hold her breath longer than. The Olson twins combined and... Whoa, that's four lungs. Their younger sister Elizabeth. Six lungs, assuming they'll have two lungs each. And the fictional character they played on Full House, Mary Beth or something like that. Michelle, I think it was Michelle. Mary Michelle, Beth.

I don't know. Yeah, I think a middle name is a Marybeth. Michelle Marybeth. Full house. Is that this, no? Full house? Either they have some. It's a house.

Full. Full. It's full. It's full house. It's a full house. It's like yours to be Stuart house. Yeah. Everywhere you look.

Everywhere you look. There's a house. It's full of them. Janet Olson can hold her breath. Three people combined. That's quite impressive. Yeah. And one fictional person.

Yeah. Wow. Three and a half people combined. Yeah. Yeah. It's massive. That is sick. Janet Olson, well done.

I love the name. Janet, I love the name. Olson. You've nailed it there. Well done. Five points. Out of? Out of five.

Wow. Is that Ambrose-style scoring? I think it is, yes. I'm really happy with this runner names yet again. Ryan Badami. Sean Brown. Harry Green. Thomas Coogan.

Thomas Ambrose and Janet Olson. Holy moly. The green team. They brought it home again. The dirty half D. As they'll forever be known. in our hearts. In Love Land.

Yes. Let's all meet in Love Land, Ohio. On the 69th day. I'm so sorry. Of the 69th year of the 69th month. It's so sad for Loveland, Colorado, which nearly made it in and it was just pipped at the post.

Yeah. By possibly an inferior love land, we'll never know. Oh, well, let's visit both, and then we'll write it. We'll decide who is the true love land. Well, this does bring us to the end of the episode for another week here at DoGoOn. As always, we can tell you to go to dogoonpod.com to buy tickets to our shows. Find our Patreon. Link to our Merchant Us that we spoke about at the start.

You can buy those t-shirts that we will hand send to you. Listen to our spin-off podcast, bookcheat about reading classic books so you don't have to. That's right. This week's episode of Book Cheat that just came out yesterday of you just are listening now. It's all about the commonly requested English classic Wuthering Heights. That would have come up a bit, I don't know. That was one of the reasons I'd, one of the people requested, they were like, someone from Auckland and New Zealand said,

can he do Wuthering Heights? Because I love the Cape Bush song. No idea what she's talking about. So it's been fun. And that was with Josh Earl from Don't You Know Who I Am and Kirsty Webeck, very, very funny stuff. Amazing. I enjoy myself.

It's good. Great combo. And Matt, most recent primates, who've you had on lately? Last week, we had the Jolz from over at Plumbing the Death Star. And we talked about the classic film that is escaping me. right now. Jane Silent Bob strikes back. Jack. Fuck, fuck, fuck.

Mother, motherfucker. Does not hold up. Loved it when it came out 18 years ago. And it was a hard to watch this time around. Really, cock knocker didn't get you? There's still some really funny moments. Will Ferrell, I don't remember being in it. It was so good.

Oh, yeah. Maybe I wasn't aware of him at the time, maybe. Also, Jason Biggs? Yeah, Jason Biggs is a good. Yeah, I loved all those cameos. But maybe my standards have changed. Definitely society standards have changed But I don't think I was much of a soy boy back then to be honest

But I'm soy up to the brim these days Yeah, wow, you're overflowing with soy It's disgusting But it was a fun, it was a fun episode It's been having a great time with that show lately It's just a fun time People are worried about getting into it Because they're like, I don't like monkeys

It doesn't matter It's just a comedy show talking about stuff With funny people Bloody grow up Get over it Read a book Or don't I'll listen to Dave's podcast.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And always get someone else to open that book first. Oh, that's terrifying now. I read a few books for this show. Not anymore. If it's heavier than it should be, take it to an X-ray machine.

It was heavy than it should be up. If it's tangy and brown, you're inside a town. But if it's clear and yellow, then it's juice there, fella. Thank you. Another Simpsons reference we didn't do was when the dolphins took over. Oh, right. But anyway, no time for that. No time.

No time, but I'll mention it anyway. And our social medias are at Do Go On Pod. We've got a YouTube channel. There's a lot of stuff online for you to follow us and see stuff in between the episodes. If you want to have a bit of fun, go check out our YouTube episodes and look at the comments. People hate us on there. Yeah. Especially the more views, the more hate somehow.

The dream. Oh. I mean, someone's got to bring you back down to Earth and thank God YouTube's there. Stop us from becoming really arrogant. I do suck. Okay. All right, thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. But yeah, is that, that's it for another week? Yes, I believe so. We'll be back episode 199 next week and the big 200th from Brisbane the week after. What a time. Oh, I'm loving life. Well, until next week, I'll say thanks for listening and goodbye.

Later. Bye. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want. to you. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. Wherever we go, we always hear six months later, oh, you should come to Manchester. We were just in Manchester. But this way you'll never

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