Do Go On - 210 - The Black Dahlia Murder Mystery

Episode Date: October 30, 2019

On January 15th, 1947 in Los Angeles, mother Betty Bersinger was on her way to the shops when she noticed a body abandoned in a vacant lot, this would kick off one of the most enduring murder mysteries of the 20th century.Tickets are selling fast for our upcoming live shows in IRELAND AND THE UK, grab tickets here: https://dogoonpod.com/events/Matt is performing an hour of stand up comedy at the Bill Murray in London on December 7, find more details/get tickets here: https://mattstewartcomedy.com/gigsSupport the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSubmit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-TopicTwitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasREFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:http://blackdahlia.web.unc.edu/ (the website by Morgan Korzik)https://mentalfloss.com/article/572113/the-black-dahlia-murder-factshttps://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/the-black-dahliahttps://www.insideedition.com/black-dahlia-murder-true-story-50461https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2582342/what-is-the-black-dahlia-case-elizabeth-short-murder/http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1867198_1867170_1867291,00.htmlhttps://www.biography.com/crime-figure/black-dahliahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_DahliaCold Case Files: The Black Dahlia https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x54p2rchttps://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/THE-SUSPECTS-Black-Dahliahttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38513320https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-01-06-mn-15889-story.htmlhttps://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-sep-15-et-dahlia15-story.html Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. This week's episode of Do Go On is brought to you by Perth. Well, the fact that we're coming to Perth this Sunday, November the 3rd.

We are sponsored by the city of Perth. Thanks, Perth. Every single person in Perth has given us a cent each and that's really done wonders for us. Thank you. No, a few people, a lot of people have bought tickets to our show this Sunday, but we have some seats left and the flights are very expensive. To come on over. Why didn't anyone warn us about that? It's the same country.

Oh my God. It would have been cheaper to go to Costa Rica and do this goddamn show. Guys, what are you talking about? We got awesome flights at 6 a.m. on a Saturday. What do you mean? Which means we'll have to be up at 3.30 in the morning. Anyway, we're going to be there. Sunday, November 3rd.

It's going to be a lot of fun. We'll be tired, but having a great time doing a podcast, followed by a live quiz type thing, which would be a lot of fun. One ticket gets you and tune to both. So come along at do go onpod.com for tickets. And whilst you're there, if you're from the UK, check out that same website for tickets to our

Dublin show, which is nearly sold out. That's Ireland, I should say. Then we're over to the UK. We're hitting up Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol. Certainly that is sold out. Birmingham and two shows in London. A second show in London is nearly also sold out. So if you're interested in any of that, just check out do-go-onpod.com.

And Matt, it's just announced he's doing a stand-up show in London. Oh, yeah. I entirely forgot about that. But I am. I don't know what. I think it's on the 7th of December, and it's at the Bill Murray. And you can get tickets via Matt, I assume. Matt Stewartcomcom slash gigs.

I'm busy that night. Or it's probably the, it would be, I would have tweeted about it. It's the pin tweet at Matt Stewart, Matt Stu underscore art. That's a sick plug. Nice and succinct.

If the advertising industry wants to hire me, do so. Now on with the show. Do so on. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. Welcome to a, I saw Jess's face

What did I did? Oh dear This is it. Keep going. Hello and welcome to another episode of DoGo On. My name is Dave Moneke and I'm sitting here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins's face. What did I do? I was just smiling.

At Matt and I just went, that's not going to break me. That's not going to. It's broken me. Ah, yeah. Just a smile. It's because never in our four years have I ever smiled at Matt before. Who would? How could you?

Yeah, I wasn't even looking at it. I wouldn't know what to do. I was laughing because I was enjoying that, because we always take too long to get onto the report. We sort of sit here and we chat for a while. And sometimes it's me who goes, all right, come on. And sometimes it's Matt. And today he went, come on, Dave, start the show.

And I just enjoyed that. I enjoyed that moment of Matt being like, fuck, we don't have a lot of time. You know what it is? It's Blockerween week. Ooh. Which is spooky. And traditionally the last week of Block.

It all builds up to this. I'm dressing up as a block for Blockerween. Yeah. Which is the only option. Get to a party. You're like, oh, come on, guys. I shotgun this. Everyone's dressed as a block.

For people that don't know what Block tober is, Matt, what the hell are we talking about? Block Tofer month is the most beautiful time of the year. Every Block tober, we do the big. biggest blockbusteriest topics, the most requested, the most voted for topics. And it all comes down to this. This is the most requested slash most voted for topic of the year. My goodness.

That's crazy. Because so far this is the, we were blessed with five Wednesdays this October coming out every Wednesdays. It was five Wednesdays to you. And so what have we gone? We've had Dungeons and Dragons. Yes. We've done the Golden State Kill.

Yes. Alistairnbole virtual blessed us with a history of the penis, keen for pain. Yeah. Last week, the fourth member of the show, Nick Mason, graced us with his presence and did the teenage mutant ninja turtles. But what could be the most requested topic of the year? Well, to get on to that topic, I'm going to ask a question. The other topics that we've done as a bonus episode was a history or some sort of bio of each of the three of us. That's right.

And one of the other most ever requested topics is the next. bonus episode which will be coming out. Maybe it already is out. Probably will be already out. Well, ideally. Do you want to say what it is? Will it be out? Yeah, it should be.

Yeah, it will be out. Yeah, it'll be out. What is it, Bob? It is a biography of the fourth beetle himself. Ringo. Nick Mason. Oh, what? How dare you?

Ringo? Surely it's John. Yeah, John was the... Famously, the least talented beetle. Yeah, so that was so much fun hearing you tell us all about Nick Mesa Mason. Yeah, if you want to hear it. The number one party boy. That's right.

And if you want to hear those, that's right. We should go to our Patreon page. That's where we upload two bonus episodes every single month. And that is patreon.com slash do go on pod. And lots of old bonus episodes for you to catch up there. Yes, that's right. Anyway, to get us onto the topic today, the most voted for topic of the year, the question is occurring in.

Hollywood, California, Dave, where you've just been. This weekend, I was there. Oh, my God. Hang on. What? It's about my weekend. Most requested topic. What Dave did on the weekend? What kind of Mexican food item upset Dave's little tummy?

If you answered all of them, you'd be correct. But I love it so much. My goodness, I love it. The question is, what is one of the most infamous unsolved murder mysteries occurring in? Hollywood, California. California. Now, when I was there, I went to the Hollywood Walk of Fame, went outside the famous Gorman's Chinese theater.

Oh, yeah. And I saw the, that's where people put their handprints, their feet prints, if you will. And one of them was Natalie Wood, who we talked about, who, mysteriously died, possibly murdered. That's, when you say Hollywood murdered, that's where I go to, but Jess has already talked about that. So I don't know.

Been there done that, Dave. Tick, tick. Also, I've also seen the Hollywood Walker phone. Really? Okay. You're not that fancy, fancy band. Okay. The name includes a color.

Ooh. Blue. Incorrect. Okay. Darker. Brown. Darker still. Dark charcoal.

The darker. Go dark. Black. Yes. Murder mystery in Hollywood. Black Dahlia. Yes, it is. The Black Dahlia murder mystery.

I did not know that was a Hollywood thing. Yes. It was very much so. And it is frequently requested. It's in the hat a lot. It is. So this checks out. Okay.

It was suggested by Johnny Dawson, Christina Bailey. She's put in brackets, Christina with a K. I've just read the Christina with it. Hold on. Did she spell Christina with a C-H? And then in brackets, right, with a K? No, it was both of the K. But I love that attention to detail.

Tom Ford, Antonia Daly, Justin Graham, Rafe Peterson. Oh, he's got a pronunciation in there as well. Pronounced like Rafe. What did I say? Rafe. Rafe with a K. Grave. Thanks you're suggesting, Crave.

Jeremiah M. Bang. You're just making these up now. No, these are all real. Camille Barowski. With a K. With a K. That is with a K. We know Kimmel.

Camille, he bought me a Gary T-shirt. Alexander McElroy, Will Cardulo, Devin Bruns, Fernando. The one name was Fernando like Prince. Just the one name. Thank you, Fernando.

McKenna Middlebrook and Phoebea Smith, and that's with a pH. Phovia. Phoebea. Fantastic. Wow, what a banging collection of names. Thank you so much to those people

suggesting a topic. Yes, thank you so much to all of you. Now, here starts my report Here starts my report Here lies my report Can I just say before we crack into this episode Block has already changed my life

Possibly not for the better The last serial killer Or murder that we did Which was the Golden State killer Where we talked about a man who would break into people's homes And then kill them I literally went home and checked That my windows were locked that night

Before I went to bed Because that was this thing that would break in Sometimes being in house several times before I'd never considered how easy it is for someone to do that. And you live in the Rialto. So this is a famously tall building in Melbourne. Yeah, sorry about that. Here's a joke, people of Melbourne will understand.

I'm just looking forward for this harrowing tale, no doubt, to again change my life for the worst. Because he was a bit of a, he was a prowler as well. So he used to just sort of like hang out in people's gardens and look in their windows. And to get to my car from my apartment, I have to walk in this fairly narrow path between fence and building that's just like pebbles and bins. It's not particularly interesting. But I'm walking along there like,

if someone was to chase me, I've got nowhere to escape. I just have to keep running. So yeah, that's been fun. Yeah, yeah. So this show does change our lives. I spooked myself. So that's good.

Well, here we go again. I don't know what to tell you. Yay. This is another grim tale. Yeah, but just make it light and fun. That's going to have to fall to you. Okay, Dave, just make it light and fun. Okay, okay.

On January the 15th, 1947 in Los Angeles, mother Betty Bursinger was on her way to the shops with her three-year-old daughter, Anne in her pram. Anne in the pram. See, I'm already keeping it light. Keep it light, it's fun. It's healthy. And where's Anne?

She's in the pram. You know? There's, oh, hello, Anne. Just a bit of an act out there for fun. Yeah. Oh, I'm the neighbour walking past them and I see Betty, Betty. Yeah. I like, oh, hello, Betty.

And who's in the pram down here? And I lift up the little lid, I assume they're called of prams to check. They're in Tupperware. Yeah. Tupper on wheels. I say, oh, hello, Anne. You're in the pram. You know pram is short for perambulator.

Oh, that's dumb. What a dumb word. I couldn't believe it. What does it mean? I don't know. Parambulator. It just sounds like a mad scientist came up with it. Get in the perambulator.

And? We got to get it up to 79 gigawatts. Okay. Yeah, something crazy and made up. So there's heaps of info on this, but it's on this case, but it's so inconsistent. So many different sources. So much of it is, uh, debunked and then but it's hard to know which stuff is and what isn't.

Anyhow, I found this cool article from a student at the University of North Carolina named Morgan Corsick and I just got this great website resource which I'll link to in the description. The Wikipedia is actually fantastic on this as well. But I think I've got like, you know, a dozen or so resources if people want to read further. And there's so many videos and documentaries, a lot of homemade ones, a lot of like, television ones that are like, you know, silly almost in how dramatic they do, you know, like those old school 90s camera angles and stuff. But Betty was walking.

She wasn't expecting what she saw next. Black and white to color the black and white. A student. So, yeah, I've just said that. So just started that paragraph again. Like it was a whole new thing. So yeah. Morgan Corsick wrote the next paragraph,

which describes what happened next. While Betty walked along the sidewalk, he has an interesting writing. He doesn't know what the backspace does, so he just includes all these mistakes. Always moving forwards. While Betty walked along the sidewalk, she noticed something white among the weeds.

She did not think much of it at first, as many people would throw trash into the vacant lots. As she glanced at the subject, she initially thought someone had thrown away a stall mannequin that had been separated into halves. Betty continued to walk forward, yet something drew her attention back. Upon closer inspection, she realized that it wasn't a mannequin at all. It was a woman who had been severed in half. Oh, dear.

Betty gave a panic scream and led her daughter away from the gruesome sight. So this is a fuck story. Okay. Bursinger quickly telephoned the police at a nearby house, thus kicking off one of the most infamous murder mystery cases of all time. When Bursinger found the body, it was in a grisly state. Obviously, it was naked, it was cut clean at half at the waist, missing the intestines, and with cuts to either side of her mouth,

sort of known as the, they call it, is it the Glasgow smile or the, what is that? It's got a name. Yeah. It almost looks like that, you know, that Joker style. Yeah, it's fucked. Strangely, there was no blood at the scene, pointing to the fact the murder probably occurred elsewhere. Police have talked about it since that they think it happened at a property or a building not too far away, and then her body was left there. So, and before that, the body was drained of blood, cleaned with alcohol or gasoline, and placed where Bursinger found it.

It was placed in it almost like very purposefully. Yeah, right. Almost like in it, some people say it was like inspired by an artwork, possibly. Ah. But I cleaned it up, cleaned it for, to remove evidence? I think that would be the main thing, yeah. After members of the LAPD took prints from the body, they sent them through to the FBI who had a match in their database.

They, there's like, there's a whole article I found which talks about how they use new technology to make this happen really quickly, but I figured that's probably not the most interesting part of this story. So the FBI had a match and they identified the body as 22-year-old aspiring actress Elizabeth Short. Her prints had been ended into the system twice prior to this, once when she applied to work on a US Army base, and a second time when she was arrested on September the 23rd, 1943 for underage drinking in Santa Barbara. The police struggled to find any initial leads and on January 21st they released their special daily bulletin with the headline Wanted Information on Elizabeth Short between dates January 9 and 15, 1947. The article reads,

description, female, American, 22 years, 5 foot 6 inches, 118 pounds, black hair, green eyes, very attractive, bad lower teeth, fingernails chewed to quick. This subject being found brutally murdered, body severed and mutilated. January 15, 1947, at 39th and Norton. Isn't it? It's like, you wouldn't see the very attractive part. No, and I don't think you'd see, oh, would you say found brutally severed or you wouldn't see severed or, I don't know.

There was an interesting thing back then, apparently I read in a couple of places that, um, when gruesome fines like that happened. And apparently it wasn't that irregular. There was, you know, murders, you know, they've always happened. but despite what you hear in the media today where they say now violence is now happening. Well, they make it sound like this generation is the first one to do violence. But they used to Photoshop on like a blanket over the top of the body to hide something like the wounds and stuff. Isn't that strange?

Old newspaper article. There's a kind of famous photo of Elizabeth Short's body with covered in a blanket. but apparently that was put on, you know, using, not Photoshopping. I don't think they had that back then. Probably not. Some primitive version. So what's the point of showing it if you're just going to show a blanket? I guess, yeah, I don't know, so they can show something.

Just put in a picture of a blanket then. If you were reading that about you, you'd be pretty stoked with very attractive. And then two dot points later, they're ripping on your teeth. Yeah, real. Oh, come on. Yeah, that's right. it is all very strange. It's also strange that you think of her body was found in such a way that they're still saying very attractive.

Yeah. Just different time. Yeah. Oh, well. Arrest whoever wrote that because they're into some weird stuff. Oh, check out. This hoty. Greg.

Greg. Greg, come on. Come on, mate. She's got bad teeth. Come on. Mate, she's got no intestines. Okay? Do you know what Dahlia means?

I'd never heard the word. Is it a flower? It is. Yeah, it's a flower. I was going to say that, but I was taking a drink of water. But I was also going to say Dahlia. It was a flower. Did you know in...

I was, shut up. I was just at the ABC where you work, Jess. Yes. And security man. Yes. He asked me what... He listens to Dugo on and he asked me what topic I was doing tonight. I mentioned it to him.

And he goes, oh, that's mentioned in the recent Spider-Man movie. The two of the characters are kind of obsessed, including Spider-Man and his... girlfriend, I think, kind of obsessed with it. And he gives her a present, which is a black dahlia brooch. Oh. Yeah. Which I didn't understand what that was all about, really, until the last few weeks when I've been researching this.

Imagine bonding over a murder. Yeah. And like a, yeah, any kind of murder. To the point where you buy gifts that are linked to a murder. Yeah. That's weird. Well. Just saying.

Yeah. No judgments No judgments, you freaks Hey Spider-Man Could save us any day And you're, you know You seem on great And I'll have a word

Okay I'll have a word When he drops in When Peter Parker drops in I'll say hey Thank you very much for saving me Appreciate it also Can I have a go

The thing Does that work? Can you show me The Thip The Thwip you mean The Thwip The Thip machine And thirdly

Let's have a chat Because Like there's sports There's Netflix There's so many other things you can do with your time. Not brooches. Yeah, what the fuck? Who the fuck wears brooch?

Oh, actually, we're really into enamel pins these days, people. Essentially the same thing. Yeah. How would you get on the subject? Another way of saying that would be brooch. All right. That's great one way. The switcheroo there was meant to be that it was so obvious.

I was about to say brooch and then I didn't, but it wasn't obvious enough that the joke. You had to explain it to me. So that could be me. And Dave, and the listeners out there, if that doesn't get edited out. But we are recording this pretty close to when it has to go out. They won't get edited out. It's disputed where the Black Dahlia nickname comes from, but according to the LA Times, it originated in the summer of 1946 at Landers Drugstore at First Street and Linden Avenue in Long Beach

as a joke among customers referring to the then current movie, the Blue Dahlia, because of Elizabeth Short's sheer black clothing and jet black hair. So the joke was, she's like the movie Blue Dahlia only, she's black hair and black clothes. She was apparently a customer at this chemist. Imagine being the kind of person that's so like,

she was obviously the kind of person that got people's attention. She was like a semi-regular customer at a chemist that other customers here. That's true. She was very attractive. Police have said so. That will get people's attention. Yeah, but have you ever been a customer at a shop?

Yeah. Yep. Oh, so that was her nickname before she died, you're saying? Apparently, yeah. Right, understood. Gotcha. I thought that it was like, after she died, they're like, oh, you mean the Black Dahlia? That's a, according to the LA Times.

Other people say that a journalist came up with it, but it seems like to me from, I believe it to be that journalists found out that story and then started calling her that. But there are other, initially there are other, I can't remember if I write this down, but there are other names. I think it was known as the were, the werewolf murders for a while or something like that. So, but it ended, you know, obviously now it's famously known as the black dollar. Certainly an intriguing name. The Times goes on to say that Los Angeles newspapers of the 1940s, especially the afternoon Herald Express, frequently nicknamed the more gruesome murders of women, often after flowers.

For example, there was the red hybiscis murder and the white gardenia murder. Because women are flowers, all of them. Delicate, beautiful flowers. And colours exist. Remember when I said, I wonder if I mention it. Anyway, I did in the next paragraph. The Herald initially nicknamed Elizabeth Shorts killing the werewolf murder before dropping it in favour of Black Dahlia.

As well as a flower, it's also a kind of butterfly and a sea. Annamy. Annamy. Annamy. Annamy. What is that word? It's where Nemo lives. Yeah. And he can't say it.

either. But he's a small baby fish. And you're a big, fully grown man. But he's a little baby fishy and he can't say it either. Me and Nemo got a bit in common. So let's go back. That makes you Marlon, the grumpy dad. Hey, he gets the son back. He gets it done.

He's also played by a comedy legend. I'm dory. Blanking on his name right now. Is it Martin Lawrence? No. You're thinking a big mama's house. That would have been a different movie. I don't know why that was funny, just because it wasn't here.

Albert Brooks. Probably because it was like two generations older. He's the Martin Lawrence of the... Bad boys. Of the 70s. If they did a bad boys movie in the 60s or 70s, it would have been Albert Brooks. There you go. But instead we got Martin Lawrence.

So here's Elizabeth's biography. Elizabeth Short was born on the 29th of July 1924 in Boston, Massachusetts. Her parents were Cleo and Phoebe May Short. She was the third of five daughters. When she was still young, she became passionate about cinema. And by the time she was a teenager, she dreamed of becoming an actress. This is a quote from Eleanor Kurtz, a friend and neighbor of Short in Medford. Dotty, Elizabeth's sister, Bet and I were going to be movie stars.

We were all entranced with movie stars, starstruck, spent hours talking about movie stars, about going to Hollywood. We performed using shorts front porch as a stage. Every Friday, as soon as the song sheets came out, we'd pull our money, get the latest sheets, and spend hours singing. Bet imitated Diana Durbin, walked like her, talk like her, and in my eyes, sang like her. Surely in her ears.

Yeah. Just big movie fans. Yep. Always dreaming of stardom. She definitely knows her Albert Brooks from her Martin Lawrence. Yeah, I reckon she probably... She's a buff. Sorry, I'm not.

Emma Peshow or Passeos or something like that. I prefer Pishow. Pishau. It's got a certain Peshaw to it. Pashow and the dirt is gone. She was a friend and neighbor in Medford said, her hair was very dark black she liked to be admired

no one had bad thoughts about her I just liked her once you saw Bet Short you couldn't forget her In her 2010 book The Black Dahlia shattered dreams Brenna Hogan said Short's father Cleo

worked building mini golf courses till the 1929 stock market crash sent him broke Can you imagine that I had a wild story Sorry That's so funny I meant the stock

Oh no the mini golf course They're the first ones to go on the economy at that time. You know, you know, it's really going bad with the mini golf courses. I just had, I had a moment where I realized that someone out there makes the mini golf course. You know? I'm sorry, I just laughed at their industry. No, no, no. I just sort of like, you know, you just don't, you don't think about where your mini golf course comes from.

I love the idea that they still check the stocks every day just in case. All right, boys. go ahead. We can build these three holes where two holes are fake holes. One hole's the real one. They'll never guess which one. Always diversify.

Invest in bonds, stocks and mini golf courses. And tinny tiny golf courses. She says, the following year his car was fountain hog. Sorry, I forgot where this goes. It gets sad, straight after. The following year, his car, car was found abandoned on the Charleston Bridge. His body wasn't recovered, but it was assumed

he jumped off the bridge, assumed but never, never proven. After this, Phoebe moved her five daughters to a small apartment in Medford, just north of Boston, where she worked in multiple jobs, including as a bookkeeper to support the family. Short was an asthmatic and had lung issues, undergoing surgery when she was 15. It was recommended that she moved to warmer weather, in the wintertime to aid in her recovery and prevent further issues. She spent the following winters in Florida with family and friends. In 1942, her mother Phoebe received a letter from Cleo, the man who disappeared. The Minigoff man.

Yes. He'd been presumed dead, but it turned out that he'd faked his own death and was writing to apologize from his new home in California. Apparently, he wanted to come home to the family, but Phoebe did not accept his apology and refused to see him again. which I feel like is probably fair enough. Yeah, that's pretty justified, I reckon. Early the following year, Elizabeth, who was now 18,

decided to move to Vallejo or Vallejo. I'm so sorry, California people, that is almost definitely not correct, but a place called Vallejo in California to live with her dad while she chased her Hollywood dream. She hadn't seen him since she was five or six. So, yeah, I imagine that must have made. made her mum feel cool. Yeah, fuck.

I don't know. Maybe her mum was like, yeah, you know, I can't see him again, but you should have a relationship with your dad. I have no idea. It didn't take long for the relationship to sour, with Cleo apparently accusing Elizabeth of laziness. Elizabeth of latiness. Someone's got a lazy tongue over there.

Accusing her of laziness and poor housework. She moved out early in 1943. She was your daughter and houseguess. Yes, why are you... No, but your daughter, woman. Oh, sorry, yes. So you should be better at housework. It's innate in us.

Look, as a feminist of the podcast, I'd say that idea is a little outdated, Jess. Yeah, what year is this that you're talking about? 43. Yeah, okay. You know, the roaring 40s, the modern age. Yeah. Man has invented flight.

This is when. she got a job as a cashier, coincidentally, on a US Air Force base. That was totally coincidental, called Camp Cook, which is how the FBI, I'm glad they invented flight, because the Air Force base was sitting around waiting for something to do. And this is how the FBI had her first set of fingerprints on file. According to Corsick, the serviceman quickly noticed her, and she won the title of Camp Cudy of Camp Cook in a beauty contest. What do you think of that?

Did she enter herself, or do they just... It kind of reads like she was, you know, they had a word quietly in the corner. She was hanging around just having some food in the cafeteria and they put a sash on her. Yeah, we've elected to do Camp Cutie. What the fuck? Something about that. I wasn't sure if Jess would love it or hate it. Camp Cutie of Camp Cook.

See, that's so interesting, Matt, because you are so right in both ways because obviously I hate it, but also Camp Cutie. Hello. I want to be Camp Cudy. I'm jealous as well. Cudy sounds nice. I just hate how they've, I mean, it's a five-word title and two of the words are camp. Yeah. Surely you can, you know, bring them into one camp, just Camp Cudy of Camp Cook.

The camp's implied already. Camp Cudy. Camp Coody. Camp Coody. It sounds like one of those old wartime song. Camp cook cut cutie, yeah. And the babo-de-boo. We should go back in time and be an adorable band.

Yeah, we have to have a cover. Like, the time machine lands in a mess hall. And we quickly knock out the existing band, swap into their clothes, and then we're doing like, we're shibop and on stage. Oh, no. Oh. Shibababababababab, but camp, kitty company. Phew, I think we pulled it off.

Why did we knock out the bed? Why did we just join the party or slink out the back or something? You were wearing modern clothes. Why did you put us in the most obvious place? Hang on, well, we're only supposed to knock them out. Oh, I killed my guy. Oh, no. Wait, who's doing what in the band?

Oh, a tambourine player over here. And I just killed him with it. I just thought we're all shoot wapping. We're all shoot wopper. Who's playing the music? It's all acabellate. baby. Oh no.

You didn't have music in the 40. That's going to be bad. Yeah, we come back and we're like, we have Spotify on us. And we change the world. We blow their fucking minds. I also had an almanap with me, so I'm winning big on all of the horse racing. It's a super lazy version of yesterday. We're in a reality where no one's heard Kanye West before.

And we just played into a microphone. Yeah, this is us. And we just announced, we are the greatest artist of all time. Okay. You might not like it, but your kids are going to love it. Probably great grandkids. But Corsick goes on to say, after mentioning that she won the Camp Cookepti of Camp Cook, Corsick goes on to say that she was emotionally vulnerable

and desperate for a permanent relationship sealed in marriage. Oh, you don't say she had daddy issues, huh? Yeah. Word spread that, yeah. abandoned by him once and then basically booted out of his... Yeah, your dad's a dick. Cleo. He's no Cleo Bachelor of the Year, that's for sure. Absolutely not.

Although he's a bachelor again. Word spread that Elizabeth was not an easy girl. This is still Corsick's words. Which kept her at home instead of on dates most nights. She became uncomfortable at Camp Cook and left her stay with a girlfriend who lived near Santa Barbara. She was uncomfortable there. It sounds like, yeah, which makes it sound like this Camp Cudy Camp Cook thing,

Maybe, yeah, I don't know. It just sounds like it's all a bit gross. But I mean, this is also what I mean. Everyone tells this story slightly differently. Some people paint her as, what's the woman version of a womanizer? Like she's like out there and she's, she's playing the field sort of thing. A man anizer? Sure.

Man eater. Oh, I was going to say. She's a man eater. Yeah. I was going to get real soy boyish and go, yeah, interesting that there's not a word. That totally is. Kind of, yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, so everyone tells this story sort of differently, but Corsick makes it sound more like she was sort of... So it's your version of the aristocrats? Yeah, everyone's got their way of telling the aristocrats bit, and everyone's got this way of telling it. Very similar, Dave. Beautiful analogy. I'm so sorry that he's doing this listeners.

It's just a... Anyway, watch the aristocrats movie. It's a bit... That's this joke that people tell differently, and in that movie they all tell it in a different way, I was thinking of the aristocrats. I actually did say arista cats. And I was like, really hope no one picks up on that.

And I was like, fuck, I don't remember that one. Everyone tells the story of the arisdicat slightly different. But they all involve Scat, which you love. No, I don't know what Scat is. I love Scar. Any first time listeners are going to be so baffled by what this show is. Well, I'll summarize it for you. Someone is listening to this on YouTube right now,

typing an angry comment. I reckon they've at least hit, if they're still there, they're under their second or third comment by now. So she's now, she's living with a friend near Santa Barbara. And it's around this time that she had her brush with the law that resulted in the second set of her prints being taken.

She was with a group, so you know, I said she was caught underage drinking. This is the big crime she committed. She was with a group of friends who were getting a bit rowdy at a restaurant. She wasn't necessarily, but she was in a group that was. The restaurant called the cops, and when they arrived, Short was booked for being underage in a licensed premises.

They took her prints but never charged her. It sounds like she wasn't drinking. She was just there at a restaurant that happened to be licensed. But anyway, I guess in a way it's kind of, it's good that her prints were on file because she was able to be quickly identified. She was sent back to Medford, but basically by those cops back on the East Coast but soon went to stay with relatives in Florida

there she met a man named Lieutenant Gordon Fickling of the US Air Force and fell in love I also read that she met him in California even these sort of detail like total opposite sides of the country it was looking like they were moving towards marriage but then Fickling got sent off to the war in Europe

leaving short heartbroken on top of that her career wasn't taking off as she'd hoped But she didn't let the setpacks hold her back as she continued to book modeling jobs and other bits and pieces without getting a big break that she was after. She also continued to date, mainly servicemen, and she started getting serious with a man named Major Matt Gordon, who was a decorated Air Force officer. Major Gordon. Major Gordon. I've got a Major Gordon. I've got a Gordon fickling.

I would have thought you would have said Major Matt. I got a major man. You got a major gordon in your pants? No. No, no, I certainly do not. It's the weirdest question of it. How dare you? They were getting serious when he was deployed to India.

Oh, for God's sake. Yeah, I know. But via a letter, Gordon proposed to short and she accepted. They're engaged to be married on his return. Can I just say, for him, you hit send on that letter. Or hit send that letter. I'll send that letter. I say actually do it.

You're such a modern man. Fuck you. You're looking at a magazine, fucking double. Yeah, I'm zooming. I'm zooming on family photos. You're pinching in on. I'm trying to... Whanker.

Zoom out. I'm just thinking of, like, obviously, a proposal is a very nerve-wracking moment for any person. But if it's three weeks there, you've got to wait for her to reply. If she gets it, will she reply? It takes four weeks to come back. That whole time, all you can think about is what's she going to say. That is wild. And on the woman's perspective,

was there a ring in that envelope? Where's my bling? If you liked it, you should have put a ring in that envelope. Yeah, honestly, that is outrageous. At least in a modern day, a placeholder ring, you know? Like something just cheap just for the event and then you go and buy a proper ring together. Is that what people do?

Yeah, sometimes. I mean, you can do whatever you like. Brownlow medalist, which is the highest football individual honour. Adam Cooney proposed to his girlfriend with a burger ring. And she said yes, so that tells you a little bit about her too. Cooney. No, that's nice. Whatever.

As long as they went and bought a ring afterwards. I just hope she's not still wearing a burger ring. I actually was left. The Simpsons. They can't be hygienic. Didn't Homer propose with an onion ring? Yeah, and it's really really hot. Can I take it off now?

That's my marge. We keep stopping how. We're through a paragraph when it goes from light to sad. So they were engaged to marry on his return. Unfortunately, though, on August 10th, 1945, as the war was coming to an end within, that's within weeks, isn't it, Dave? He was killed in action. Oh, no.

Short was proving very unlucky in life and in love. Isn't that, oh my God, it's like her, just such a hub. Every step of the way, her story is so heartbreaking. Yeah. After a period of morning I feel like it's going to get better for her soon Oh no Well remember what the episode's called

Was that? Wait actually you've heard You've already heard about how it had The opening paragraph was Lady and Baby Founds a woman ripped in two Yeah but like surely something good Will happen in between

You know It gets better before it gets worse Well Matt I'm trying to feel long Okay thank you Hey remember the Minikov stock market crush. So stupid.

The next sentence he went missing. I know. Every time. The next sentence we thought he jumped off a bridge to his death. Oh, God. After a period of morning, Short started to get her life back on track by contacting her old Californian friends. She decided to head back to L.A. to continue to pursue her Hollywood dream.

While there, she was couch surfing at friends places for a while before deciding to take a bus leaving LA for San Diego on December 8, 1946. While in San Diego, Short saw a show at the Aztec Theatre. After the show, she was found sleeping in her chair by a young woman named Dorothy French who worked there. The two became friends, and French offered a place to stay at her parents' house. That's nice. Though it was only meant to be for a few nights, she ended up staying for over a month.

Whilst staying with the French family, Short partied in the evenings, and one night met a salesman named Robert Manley. Despite Manley having a pregnant wife at home in LA, he began spending a lot of time with short. Though he later said despite being attracted to her, they were not romantically involved. They were definitely romantically involved. He swore that to police after, you know, her...

Yeah, of course, when she was found murdered and people found a connection between the two of them and his pregnant wife could have found out, of course he said they were romantically involved. I did not have sex relations with that woman. Of course I didn't know. We were just good friends. I definitely didn't have sex with her.

What? You have DNA... Oh, okay. You know? Like, of course he didn't. Wink, wink, wink. Right. Yeah, no, that does sound, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt,

but you do sound like you have a case there. Yeah, I'm quite confident that they were intimate. Okay. Telling each other's secrets. Yeah. Whispering sweet nothings. Holding hands. Okay.

Didn't know what went that far. The height of intimacy. First base, hand on shoulder. Yeah. Second base, elbow touching, elbow. Oh, third base, hand on hand action. Oh my God, Matt, please. Sorry, I'll have to put this as an R-rated episode.

Probably you should definitely do that anyway. What's a home run? A home run. That's when the batter hits it out. Sort of off topic, but. So they were seeing each other on and off. This is manly in short. As friends.

As friends. Yeah. I'll just call this friendship up for a couple of weeks. Over the period of a few weeks in San Diego, before Short asked him for a ride back to L.A. On January 8th, 1947, a month after she'd left L.A., manly drove her back, where he paid for a hotel room for her for the night.

Oh, just for her? Yeah. Oh, he didn't stay. No, he did. Oh, okay. Separate rooms. Separate beds. No, apparently, according to the Corsick,

web page, when the two of them returned to the hotel, they went out parting, then when they returned to the hotel, he slept on the bed, and she slept in a chair. So he was a gentleman. Plus he did like sleeping in chairs. I mean, he did pay for the hotel room. Sure, but you could also just sleep in a bed. You were the one saying before that they can't just sleep next week.

But also, this is him telling the story. So, you know, very possibly they shared the bed and he goes, oh, no, I made her sleep on the chair. Don't worry about that. All above board. Then everyone looks like, you're an asshole. He's like, I should have put myself in the chair. I slept in the chair.

Oh, crap. I slept in the bath. No one slept in the bed. We decided that if I can't have it, then you can't have it. We both said that. Then I said jinx and we went to bed. Not bad. By that, I mean I went to bath.

She went to chair. That's it. I'm going to chair. She slammed the door. The door to the chair. She locked herself in the chair. I was banging on that chair all night. Yeah, he was.

He was banging on that chair all night. Oh. It sounds like no one got any sleep that. From arguing. It's hard to sleep in a chair. Short told Manly she was heading back to Medford, but before she did, she had to meet her sister at the Biltmore Hotel in Hollywood.

This is the next day. Manly had a meeting that morning, but afterwards he drove her there dropped her off. He had another appointment to make. He's a salesman or whatever. So he did not wait for Short Sister to arrive. As he was leaving,

Manley saw Short in the hotel lobby making a phone call. Manly along with the Hotel Walkers. The Hotel Walkers. All hotels have a small team of walkers. And what the walkers do is they, well, they obviously pair up. I've got a font size 18. Have you had your eyes checked lately? I have.

And they said, yeah, I can read the letters on a board. I guess I just can't put them together and say the word. Try again. How do you spell walkers? W-O-R-K. Workers. Manly along with the hotel workers are the last known people to see Elizabeth Short. Six days later, her body was found by Betty Bursinger

on the morning of January 15th, 1947. The investigation Responding to Betty Bursinger's call were officers Frank Perkins and Will Fitzgerald. They were horrified at what they saw at the crime scene and immediately called for backup. I'm sorry, are you seriously just going to brush over Perkins?

We're done with that? I hit Perkins hard. It's a word, Perkins. I thought she slept in a chair. Wait, what? Wait, do you think... Yeah, you took that, you should, let's take that out of context. Oh, no.

Yeah, so, is Frank Perkins. Yeah. Is Perkins relatively common? Yeah. Yeah, it's a very common English name. Not related then. No, I don't have a Frank. Oh, do you have a Frank?

Any American, do you have an American branch? No, no. I think so. We've been in Australia for like five or six generations. So I don't know. I don't think so. Maybe before that the branch, somewhere back on the branch. But I don't know.

According to Corsick, the Los Angeles Police Department noted that Shorts' body seemed to have been posed, lying on her back with her arms raised over her shoulders. There were cuts and abrasions across her body, and her mouth had been sliced to extend her smile from ear to ear. Investigators believed she had been tied down and tortured. for several days. Oh! Due to the rope marks on her wrists, ankles and neck.

Her naked body had been cleanly sliced in half just above her waist. So this is something that I've seen a bit inconsistent as well. How much, like the torture side of things. I just read before,

I think this was even on the Wikipedia page has said that that's a misnomer that she was tortured. There was a lot of torture. So I don't know 100% what's accurate with that unfortunately. But I did read that quite a bit as well. But apparently just even at the time,

the newspapers were so inconsistent with how they told the story. Even like way back then, it's always been told in varying ways on all sorts of aspects of it. Apparently the torture thing came out in the papers at the time and the police didn't correct it because they were happy, it was getting attention.

Yeah, right. And they were happy for, people to not know what had actually happened necessarily because it was, you know, that confuses an investigation. But it was also a really weird relationship between the police and the media, which I'll talk about soon anyway. But yeah, this case had a, they were kind of almost working together, but I'll talk about that soon. It's the thing that I keep thinking about and I don't even want to say it out loud and think about it more. But I just can't understand what you could use to cut a body in half.

Right. I had that same thought. Yeah, right? I was like, I don't want to ask. Yeah. But also I thought, yeah. How? You said clean in half. Yeah.

Wow. What a samurai sword is the first thing I thought of. Yeah, I'm not sure. Well, something that I'll talk about it a bit is a police thought, you know, because it was, it was in the perfect spot. And it's like, it is quite a hard thing to do. People were thinking surgeons and someone with a medical history. Right.

I would have even thought like industrial equipment. Yeah. But I think it was. done in a way where it was in this spot that, you know, anyway. Detective Lieutenant Jesse Haskins described... So there's a Jesse as well. There's a Jesse. And I think he was on the scene finding it.

He describes a scene like this. There was a tire track right up against the curbing and there was what appeared to be a possible bloody heel mark in this tire mark. On the curbing, which is very low, there was one spot of blood and there was an empty paper cement sack lying in the driveway and it also had a spot of blood on it. It had been brought there from some other location. The body was clean and appeared to have been washed. Two senior detectives were assigned to the case, Detective Sergeant Harry Hansen and Detective Finnis Brown. By this time, by the time they had arrived on scene, it was overrun by a media pack as well

as civilian onlookers. Seeing that the crime scene and the possible evidence was being disturbed, Hansen ordered everyone to clear the fuck out. I reckon he would have said a lot of that too, the way it reads. To leave the area to allow the detectives to do their goddamn job of investigating the case. I reckon I would have said it all like that. You goddamn right, I'm out of order. This is the coroner's report or from the coroner's report. Short's body was sent to the coroner's office.

Their autopsy revealed many cuts and lacerations to her face and body. According to Corsick, most of the damage done seemed to have been post-mortem, including the severing of the victim's body at her waist. which is slightly reassuring. It was done after she died. The official cause of death was hemorrhage and shock due to concussion of the brain and lacerations to the face. So, I mean, you can only hope that she was not,

it happened quickly. Yes. The media's involvement, like I was saying, was quite strange. But it was a kind of symbiotic relationship between the LAPD and the media. In particular, the newspaper, the Herald Express. The owner of the paper, William Randolph Hurst, had many top investigative journalists uncovering leads on the case, and he made a deal with the cops apparently, but he'd share the information they found as long as they were granted some exclusives from the LAPD. Isn't that weird?

Like the cops are going, yeah, we'll give this newspaper the scoops. According to Corsick, LAPD Captain Donahue was not especially happy with these terms, but he was desperate for information on the case and took the offer. Apparently, Hearst assigned reporter Wayne Sutton to locate Phoebe Short, which Elizabeth's mother. He found her in her home in Medford, Massachusetts, and was supposed to give her the news of her daughter's death, which sounds a bit stranger in the first place, right?

Yeah. Why is a reporter from California, the one with the job of going over? It doesn't seem a bit weird to me. Surely the local cops should have done it. But anyhow, he didn't do it anyway. Instead, Corsick says, Sutton knew he needed to obtain information about Elizabeth's short first. Her mother would likely be too shaken up to tell him information on Elizabeth

if he had initially broken the horrible news to her. So instead, Sutton lied saying that her daughter had won a beauty contest in LA as a ruse to extract information. Cause it continues saying, Phoebe loved to talk about her beautiful daughter and was willing to tell Sutton everything he wanted to know. Once he had received this information, Sutton's boss instructed him to tell Phoebe the brutal truth.

Piece of shit. That's really bad. It's just like, nah. Yeah. By the way, not a beauty contest. She was brutally murdered. Oh, my God. Oh, it's awful.

Yeah, so it's so fucked up. But when he eventually did tell her the truth, apparently she didn't believe him and only then did the LAPD contact local Medford police to get them to go around and confirm it to her. Why they didn't do that in the first place? Yeah, why is a reporter having, yeah, that's awful. Seems just bizarre.

And so awful and unethical. Yeah. That's yuck. Yeah, don't the journalists take the, the Hippocratic oath? The way the media. Yes, Karl Stefanovic took the Hippocratic oath. What is the hypocrite? That's the medical one.

Yeah. Okay. The way the media reported on the case was often pretty gross, referring to her, like I said before, as attractive or the attractive victim in one article. Yuck. And incorrectly reporting on how revealing the clothes she was wearing were in the final days, as if that was an important factor in the murder. It is a lot more tragic when a good-looking person dies brutally, don't you think?

Oh. You know, if she was an ugg-o, I'd go, oh, that's unfortunate. That's true. But now that I know she's attractive, I'm way more invested. It's quite a loss. Yeah. I'm starting some sort of fundraising campaign because that's... beautiful woman died.

Yes. But they were also kind of saying she was wearing revealing clothes. Yeah, she was asking for it. I don't know if it was quite that, but it was somewhere in that world. Yeah. The BBC writes that the examiner newspaper added complete fabrications to the Black Dahlia story. exchanging in their reporting, the suit short had been seen wearing for a tight skirt and blouse and implying sexual misadventures.

One paper wrote at the time, authorities today were searching into the love life of 20 22-year-old Elizabeth Short, victim of the werewolf murder, whose romances had changed her, according to friends, from an innocent girl to a man-crazy delinquent known as the Black Dahlia. Oh, what?

Yeah, I always find it funny to go back to old media reports and stuff and people talk about now, about the media, it's trash now, there's no integrity like it used to be. Like, I think it was always a bit, it was always trashy newspapers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It sounds like forever there were trashy newspapers. Yeah. As soon as we got good newspapers. There was always a trashy one as well. Yeah. It's like nostalgia. Every generation nostalgia makes everyone think when I was a kid. We all had integrity.

Everyone was polite to adults. There was no violence. You know, we didn't carry knives. We just shook each other's hands and said, you're all right, mate. You know, it's bizarre. Nostalgia is one of the weirdest phenomenons, I reckon. Phenomena. Phenomenon.

Anyway. Anemone. Anemone. According to an article in The Guardian, the day after Short's body was found, the Los Angeles Examiner sold more copies than it had any other day, except when it announced the Allied victory

in the Second World War. Sales were fuelled by the tawdry way the tabloid pressed covered short as a streetwalking, sexualized young thing. As a childhood friend later recalled, it was just horrible the way she was portrayed. The sensationalised portrait has endured over time. Her murder has been memorialised in movies,

like The Black Dahlia starring Scarlett Johansson a few years ago, which I don't recall. I don't either. It's definitely been, I mean, I was in talking about how it was mentioned in Spider-Man this year as well. There's a famous heavy metal band called The Black Dahlia Murder. It's like inspired so many things. There's also an episode of American Horror Story,

based on it for whatever reason maybe because it was in Hollywood and there's this name that people can attach it to and it and it is a mystery and there's so many different suspects of all these different things I suppose how gruesome it is too yes um the investigators believe the killer was either a stranger to short before he killed her perhaps when hitchhiking and she got it just got in the wrong car apparently that was pretty common back then and she did a bit of hitchhiking so that that was one theory otherwise obviously she already knew him. That were the two options.

So she knew him or she didn't? Yeah. God, criminal profiling was one of the two. Criminal profiling was really advanced back then. Yeah. The other option, I guess, is that she kind of knew him a bit. An acquaintance. Yeah.

Statistically, it's more likely to be an acquaintance. Yeah. You know? The police were leaning towards the she knew him option. Do you ever really know someone, though? That's true. That's a good point. That was a question that they talked about.

When police were like, yeah, she may have known him. But do you ever really know someone? Yeah, and then they sat down and tried to connect with one another. Oh, that's nice. You know, because if something happened to one of you, they'd say, you know, you knew him. What was he like? I'll be like, well, I mean, I knew one side of him, sure.

Is it ironic that the Black Dahlia murder brought people together? That was weird because he did a hand movement. Probably over the... Yeah, you're an edgy comic. You should open with that. I said that last night. I tried this new bit out. And it is making audiences go,

oh, and I'm like, have I become an edgy comic? How did that happen? Great. Good for you. The police believed that the way the murder took place and how her body was left on display showed signs of it being a personal vendetta.

They also believed that due to the search nature of shorts injuries, the killer could have had medical training, like I mentioned before. On the 23rd of January, 1947, a man claiming to be the killer, phoned the examiner newspaper. Depending on the source, he called either to tell them he didn't like how the story had been reported in the papers, or to congratulate the editor on his great coverage. Right. So again, he either liked it or he didn't like it. Those are the two options. No, yeah.

Are either new or I didn't know her? We knew it. It's something that I find really strange about any of these serial killers. Like so often they do contact the media or the police or they, you know, like even the Golden State Killer would write letters or he would. It's an attention thing. Yeah, but it's so, it's like, you've got away with it. Shut up, you know?

Right. Stop bringing attention to yourself. It's almost like their minds. It doesn't work like ours. Yeah, it is almost like that. But do we think that that is actually the killer or just to. Prank call. It seems like, yeah, very well could have been.

He said he'd mail some of Shorts' belongings to the paper to prove it was really him. And sure enough, a package was received that included Shorts' birth certificate as well as photos and an address book. Why did he have her birth certificate? Because she was sort of living a nomadic life. She would have had a lot of that stuff on her. I'm sort of guessing. That's a good point. Because I don't have that.

My mum has that. Right. Okay, Mom, I don't trust me to keep it safe. Yeah. I trust Mom to keep it safe. I trust your mum to keep it safe. Yeah, she's got yours too. Yeah.

Can I give it mine? Of course. Thank you. It's better to have all three in one place. Will you agree? Yeah, yeah. In a flammable box. At my mum's house.

Yeah, in the bushfire zone on the edge of Melbourne. Yeah. Perfect. The address book that was sent in had the name Mark Hansen embossed on the cover. Hansen was a cover. a nightclub and theatre owner and short knew and had stayed at his place. This apparently led to him becoming a prime suspect. Seems like it would have been a weird mistake to me.

Yeah, sending your own address book. But they were like, look, this is a big lead. We've got to chase it down. He finally slipped up. Imagine not having your phone to store phone numbers in. So you just have an address book that you carry around. Yeah, Roller decks. It really has just, you know, eliminated all.

of things you had to carry. Calculator. Encyclopedia Britannica. Compass. Condom. Condom. Dave. Dave. I've got a very advanced phone. If you keep your phone next to your junk long enough, it should stop pregnancy. That's true. That's what I'm banking on. Wank banking. Don't worry, baby. I've earned an iPhone for eight years. The package had been washed with gasoline in a similar way to Short's body, further convincing

the police that the package had been sent by the killer. What do you mean washed? How do you, okay. I guess, yeah, it's sort of like. Because I'm thinking like an envelope, so that's just, if you wash that with gasoline. Well, it's, the bits in the package, the books and that sort of stuff. Just wiped them all down. Yeah, I guess wiped down with gasoline.

The gasoline wasn't able to clean off all the prints, though, and some partial prints were collected and sent off to the FBI to analyze. But unfortunately, we're compromised on route and unable to be analyzed. There's a mole in the police. Yeah, what do you mean that compromise on a route? What happened? Well, that's one that... Someone got them out and decided poking me.

I'm not even 100% sure if that happened or not, but... It was written in a couple of different places. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, that's a wild idea if they were close to having great evidence and it just disappeared. Oh, that would be so infuriating. The same day the package was received, one of Short's shoes and her handbag were recovered from a garbage bin within a few.

miles of where her body was found. More letters arrived at various LA newspaper's offices with messages formed from magazine cutouts. They included messages such as, I will give up in Dalia killing if I get 10 years. Don't try to find me. What does that mean? Oh, if you agree to just give me 10 years jail, I think, I'll come clean. Oh, right.

Yeah. Why would you set it at 10th? I'd be like, I'll do six months. Good behaviour bond. Yeah. Just find me. You know, why would you set yourself 10 years? Well, I guess he knows that that's a pretty good deal.

Oh, it's a great deal. I wonder if California... Let's start low and barter. Build up to the 10. Maybe that's what he thought he was doing. Oh, wow. There seems to be differing opinions on nearly all aspects of the case, including the authenticity of some of the letters,

though Korsick writes, these letters seemed to be from the murderer, and it seemed as if he were trying to taunt the LAPD detectives. His messages were often convoluted and confusing, causing the detectives to spend much time trying to decipher them. Everything sent to the LAPD, including the letters, Elizabeth's short security card photographs, had been rinsed with gasoline. So the forensic examiners were unable to lift any fingerprints off the evidence.

Many of the letters also seemed to give false information, based on the way the investigators deciphered them and were not very helpful in solving the black dahlia case i think it sounds like because i saw other people dispute that most of those letters were legit apart from that first package which is hard to dispute because it was her birth certificate yeah there was also there was a note found in um in a man's clothes or it looked like he a suicide note where he owned up to the murder and but body was never found never identified there was just a pile of clothes oh and i don't think people think that was legit either a lot of people came forward to claim that they did it in this case as well which is quite strange why i'm not fully sure there was

there was a big um reward so i i was thinking no was it like going i'll i'll take the rap so that my family can get become rich i don't know i'm not i'm not sure that was my that's the conclusion i jumped to but i don't know if that necessarily makes sense i reckon i'd turn to gambling rather than because i love my family don't get me wrong yeah i love gambling i would do just about anything gamble gamble this goes on um but probably further down that list would be um uh claim a murder i didn't do. To be honest, that's just the ultimate gamble, isn't it? Yeah.

Hmm. That's really, that's, if you're a real gambler, you admit to a murder, you didn't do. And I could just, I could get so much reading done in prison. Back yourself. I get a little reading and I could just focus on exercise, you know? Oh, yeah. Exercise yard. I always think, you, prison's always seen buff in the movies.

Yeah. Yeah. People spend so much on gyms. I spend so much on gyms. Just do some hard time. Then you'll get hard abs. Yeah. That's what they call it hard time.

because I'm hard the whole time. Is that a Gordon in your pocket? No, it's my abs. I've got abs all the way down. Is that a Gordon in your pocket? I took out the one word that made that nearly a thing, major. Is that a Gordon in your pocket? Oh boy.

I guess I've got a big Gordon right now. Gordon kind of works. He's got a raging Gordon. I'm going to call it from now on. Yeah, and people who came forward and were found to be, like a lot of them were ruled out straight out. It's like, no, you definitely couldn't have done it. And then they were charged with obstructing the course of justice and something. So it is a gamble.

You're right, Dave. That's a real gamble. I did this murder. No, you didn't. Oh, fuck. Hey, you're still in trouble. Don't worry. This is the jail full of people that claim to be the Black Dahlia killer.

No, I did it. No, I did it. I did it. That's the end. Goodwill Hunting. No, the other Robin Williams school story movie where they all stood on their desks. Goodwill hunting. Oh, is that what it was? No.

Dead power society. Is that the scene at the end? I killed. A handwritten letter was received by the examiner on January 26th reading, here it is. Turning in Wednesday, January 29, 10 a.m. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger. On January 29th, the book.

Police waited at the location the letter listed, but the killer did not show up. Later that day, the examiner received a cut and paste letter reading, have changed my mind. You would not give me a square deal. Dahlia killing was justified. That never led anywhere, but... Good communicator though. Yeah.

Keeps checking in, you know? That's all right. And there were... So these are all, you know, that old school cut out of magazines. Yeah. Letters? So let's go through some of the suspects. I'm only going through a few of the key ones.

There are so many, a wild amount. And there still are. People, you know, I'm still talking about this all the time. There's so many different suspects out there. By mid-1947, the police had eliminated a list of 75 suspects. And by the end of 1948, they had looked into a total of 192 suspects. Here are a few of the key ones. Also, those numbers range.

I've seen numbers like, you know, a thousand people. So many. Mark Hansen, the key suspect who spoke about before, the club and theatre owner whose name was embossed on the address book. Short stayed at his home on numerous occasions in 1946, and according to Short's friend Anne Toth, Hansen had his sexual advances rejected by Short. Short called Hanson on January the 8th, 1947,

when she was still in San Diego, making him one of the last people she spoke to before she disappeared. When he was questioned, about the address book, Hansen told the LAPD that it was his, but he gifted it to short, unused, which makes sense to me. Like the idea that he sent in his own book to me just does not add up at all. But also a used address book. Yeah, but I'm just like, maybe I'm missing something there.

He remained a prime suspect throughout the investigation, though he had no criminal record and charges were never brought against him. many still believe him to be the man but he died of natural causes in 1964 Dr Patrick O'Reilly was another who was a suspect at the time and remained so a lot of people still think he did it so there's different suspects there were some that were right in the gun at the time and not so much anymore and some that weren't really thought about then but people speculate about now dr Patrick Riley has consistently been a suspect The way Corsick writes about him, he sounds like he should be too.

Right. This is from Corsick's writings again. O'Reilly was a medical doctor who had known Elizabeth Short through Mark Hanson. According to the Los Angeles district attorney's files, O'Reilly was a close friend with Hanson and frequented that nightclub that Hansen owned around the time of the murder. Corsick goes on to say, O'Reilly had been convicted of assault with a deadly weapon for taking his second. to a motel and sadistically beating her almost to death, apparently for no other reason

than to satisfy his sexual desires. That's all quoting from Cawesick. This meant that O'Reilly had a history of violent crimes with sexual motivation. He goes on to say the files noted that O'Reilly's right pectoral had been surgically removed, which was similar to the mutilation present on Elizabeth Short's body. It should be noted that O'Reilly was once married to the daughter of one of the LAPD captains. there's a lot in there Yeah Why was these pectoral

Yeah I'm not sure I didn't look into that any further That's the only place I really I think I saw that one other place But yeah I'm like that's a I've never heard of that No I'm guessing them

I don't know if that means it was It was cancerous Or there was You had some issue there Um Robert Manley Um Tom more

About this peck Robert Manley another one of the suspects. He was the last man known to see Short alive. He was the man who made a sleep in a chair. Yes. They were just friends, okay? He was also a suspect at the time

and one of the first to be taken in by the police. So he was released due to a solid alibi for January 14th and 15th, as well as for passing two separate lie detector tests, which are now sort of known to be fallible, right? So it's funny. that he was ruled out in a large part on those lie detector tests at the time.

She was, she was, it was nearly a week and he had aloys for two days. So I don't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. The lie detector test, so I don't know. I always just think of my artist is like taking the lie detector test. I've got, if you excuse me, I've got to go.

I've got a hot day. Dinner with a friend. Dinner alone. It's not even dinner in the end, right? It's like ogling the women in the Sears catalogue. And it's not even Sears or something yet? No, I can't remember the... Target catalogue.

Adam deserted this kind of shoddy treatment. The thing's like, eh! That is a girl. I forgot about that. That's a great Simpsons bit. Maybe the most talked about suspect, though, is Dr. George Hoddle. A lot of this is because of a modern-day campaign for him to be proven guilty of the murder. being undertaken by an ex-L-A-P-D detective named Steve Hodel.

No coincidence that their name's the same, it's his son. Oh, so the doctor's son? The doctor's son is like basically dedicating his life now to proving that his dad did it. Speak about daddy issues. Yeah, right. Dad didn't play enough baseball with you, hey? He was on one of these. Yeah, and I'm going to make him look like a killer.

Yeah, I don't think he was a great dad. Steve Hoddle was interviewed. I imagine if he was a great dad. Yeah. And he can't believe that he's sons. I couldn't have done more for you. And now you're trying to say that I killed this person. What the fuck?

But apparently when he first heard that his dad was a suspect, he was at first trying to prove he didn't do it. And he was like, oh, actually. I think maybe he did. and then he, you know, he became convinced. Whoa. So Steve Hoddle was interviewed by the Guardian newspaper in 2016 in an article titled,

I know who killed the Black Dahlia, my own father. It's a pretty bold headline. There's no real pullback and reveal there, is it? Dad! There's none of that in that article. They're really selling it. And I get it. Like, that's a good headline, but, you know.

Hoddle has also written books on the subject, multiple books. though LA Times columnist Steve Lopez is unconvinced telling The Guardian, when I found out what Hoddle's theory was, it struck me as pretty spectacular. An LAPD detective solves one of the most notorious unsolved murders in LA history, and the murderer is his father. But I was struck in reading the book by the fact that Hoddle never sealed the deal, wrote Lopez.

I thought he offered mostly circumstantial evidence, then acted as if the case was closed. And I think... Case close. I thought that was just a figure of speech. I watched an episode of this... One of these old sort of TV shows I was called Cold Case Files. And the host was the best.

He starts out by... He's driving through the streets of Hollywood at night. And he goes, I lived on the... I lived around this area for two or three years back in the 70s. Two or three years. That was a real great connection to the area. I lived here for 35 years. I lived here for a couple of months.

one time visiting a frere. He had a great voice. You know, that deep old American journalist's voice. It was fantastic. So he was interviewed quite a bit on this episode, and it was all around the Black Dahlia case. The first thing that made him suspect his father was finding photos of a woman who looked like short

in a photo album belonging to his father. They showed these photos on the show, and to my untrained eye it didn't quite look like the same person he was fully convinced um and if you're squinting your eyes you can kind of see his face

like it definitely definitely looks similar but you know like different kind like you know the nose is a bit different and just a woman and he's like see this dot this dot here on her forehead that lines up it's like yeah but what about the nose being different yeah but the dot

nose has changed dots are forever but and he he went and people to analyze it and some people said there was a match and others said it was inconclusive. He also said some of the handwriting in the letters, which aren't even proven to be actually from him, said that it was the same as the handwriting of his father and he had samples of both.

Had those tested as well. And again, the verdicts were differing, but sort of from unsubstantiated to maybe. Right. No one was like, yes. Yeah, I don't think anyone was really bang on. Someone's like it could be. Yeah, that's why I brought it to you because it could be. But also mentioned on the show, I feel like I wouldn't worry about any of that stuff, though.

Because that's like, that stuff doesn't seem like it's proving anything. This next stuff feels full on. And this is also mentioned on the show and in the Guardian article. There are transcripts from 1990 when the police bug George Hoddle's home, the dad, from the Guardian. in. Most of the transcript is dull. Hoddle has sex. He berates his secretary. He talks about money problems, but on 19th of February, 1950, there's a haunting exchange. 8.25 p.m. Woman screamed. Woman screamed again. It should be noted, the woman not heard before the scream. This is that that's written out in the transcript. Later in the day, Hoddle talks to a confidant. This is

quoting from the transcript again. Realized there was nothing I could do, put a pillow over her head and cover her with a blanket. Get a taxi. Expired 1259. They thought there was something fishy. Anyway, now they may have figured it out. Killed her. That feels like, why

wasn't someone, I don't know, anyway, the surveillance continues routinely, but for one telling moment, and this is again from the transcript. Supposing I did kill the black dahlia. Okay. Is he talking to himself in the mirror? That one feels a little more

Yeah. Suppose I did kill the Black Dahlia. They couldn't prove it now. They can't talk to my secretary anymore because she's dead. What the fuck? That's what I'm thinking. That's like, why is this even a mystery? So they arrest him for the murder of his secretary at least?

The screaming and stuff, that was Feb, right? Yeah, but I don't know if that was the secretary or someone else or he's, you know. Yeah. In this doco, they had, his son had this, another. ex-cop with a dog who was trying to sniff out bodies, human remains, and went around his dad's old property

and the dog sniffed out apparently supposedly showed signs of smelling traces of old human remains. That's gross. But he wasn't arrested for that murder. No. Even though they had surveillance of him admitting that he killed someone. Yeah, I don't get it. But it just feels like,

yeah, that feels at least pretty noteworthy. Yeah. You'd look into that, I reckon. Why is the second But I think they did. I think they looked into it and then and then dismissed it. So, I mean, did they dismiss it like, was the tone not noted that he was joking around? Or, I don't know. She's dead.

Dead tired. She's put in a lot of extra hours this week and we'll be paid accordingly. I don't get it. I'm a great boss. Maybe that was it. I don't know. Maybe they cut him off. It's like reality TV shows now where they always edit someone to be the bad guy.

Maybe it's just like that. Remember when I messaged you a couple of weeks ago saying, I've just gone to bed after an epic night of writing reports. That's when I was going through all this stuff. It was making my brain throb. I'm like, what is happening? Yeah,

and that's not a good thing to be reading late at night either. Yeah, it did make all my senses feel out of whack. Yeah. It was very surreal feeling. I was so tired at the same time. But it just, you know,

it was, some of these things aren't super fun to deep dive into it. Yeah. But it's what the patrons wanted. Number one. The one they wanted the most. Go there. They thought we'd solve it.

And we are. And they thought right. We're close. I can feel it. Yeah, so it seems like that's noteworthy stuff to me. Sort of like headline sort of stuff. And is George alive at the time when his son's investigating him? No, his dad's dead by this point.

I think that's when he found the photos going through like the deceased estate. Sorry, I don't remember if you'd said that or not. I might not have no. That's so weird. Yeah, you'd love to go to him. Hey. Just bring your friend over with a dog. Yeah.

What's he sniffing for? Nothing? Do you mind leaving the dog in the backyard? We'd love to, Dad, but we've just got to check all the rooms first. Sorry, Dad, I'm just got to dig up this concrete. Okay. All right. But yeah, anyway, it seems like many things Steve Hoddle's case against his

father is a bit flimsy. Or this is in the words of ex-LAPD detective Brian Carr. He said basically, if he ever took a case as weak as huddles to a prosecutor, he would be, quote, laughed out of the office. Shit. Yeah, to me, I'm like, oh, this feels, this feels like it should really be investigated. I guess what they're saying is it was. And I just don't understand how those quotes from that transcript were.

Yeah, he killed someone. Yeah. Even, it might not have been The Black Diet, but he killed someone. Right. You know? Look into that then. It could be a different case. That's all right.

Because like the cop, those transcripts were gotten because the cops were suss on him for doing bad stuff. I don't even think they were looking at him for this case necessarily at the time. There were other, there was sort of like incest charges brought against him, I think. Which didn't hold up, but sound like, you know, That was sort of more legal loophole stuff, maybe. Yeah. It seems like, depending on who you read, they believe it was a different guy. Everyone is like, it's definitely this guy.

This is my guy. It's definitely the killer. But, you know, everyone's contradicting each other. And everyone's going, yeah. Oh, you're listening to this guy? He's a joke. His research is a joke. I'm laughing.

Ah, ha, ha. And they're doing it to each other. Yeah. It's a wild. Oh, you read my research. I'm a joke. I'm a fucking joke. My wife left me because of this shit.

Sharon! Sharon! Oh, no one names is Karen. That's probably why she left me. I keep calling you Sharon. It seems like possibly, though, the main suspect was a bellhop named Leslie Dillon. He had previously been a mortician's assistant, so he'd worked vaguely in this world where he might know how to cut up a cadaver sort of thing.

You packed a few asses in this time. When do morticians have to cut up a body? Yeah, I'd say that would be rare. But they know how to... Yeah, I don't know how to put blush on your face. And cotton in your asshole. But don't... Not the other way around.

I guess it means he definitely knew how to... He wasn't worried about dead bodies. He wasn't squeamish and that's anything. Yeah. That's, I mean, but not at all suggesting that mortars... We're so lucky to have people who are willing to do those jobs, like we said in the ass-packing episode back in episode 10, I think. We talked about burial, cremation or other what they do to your body when you die. Yeah.

Some people still quote that as their favourite episode all time. It's my favourite still. We've done 200 since. Literally. And our 10th one was the peak for me. We're still chasing our tail. That's not what that phrase means. After contracting.

Fuck, I'm... Sorry about any of these me fluffing lines here because I probably won't get them all out. But I'm sorry for that. After contacting LAPD psychiatrist Dr. J. Paul DeRiver about the Black Dahlia case saying he had an interest in it after reading it about it in a magazine. This is Leslie Dillon. The Bellhop. Yeah. But he seemed to have intimate knowledge of the murder and for this reason was pursued by the police.

Unfortunately, though, in Corsick's words, he had been illegally detained and there had been a lack of concrete evidence tying him to the murder. Many believed Dylan committed the murder and would have been indicted not for the fact that the LAPD had followed proper protocol in his arrest. So they kind of, they butchered it according to some. There was a, I thought I'd written more about this, but it doesn't look like I did. There was this, the river, I think it was. He was like pretty convinced it was him. He was talking to Dylan a lot. And the more they spoke, the more he was like,

oh, I think Dylan actually, I think he might have done it. And he started talking about his friend. Dylan's like, I think my friend might have done it. And then DeRiver's like, I don't think this friend exists. I don't think this guy has any. And they try to look into him. Eventually it turned out the friend did exist, but his name was totally different.

And it was all very messy. There's just all these different palms that look like very much, like you read someone's take on it. You're like, oh, this is the guy. Yeah. But how many guys could it be? It's so frustrating that it's never going to be solved. It just can't be solved now.

There's just going to be a bunch of different people who are 100% sure it was someone. Yeah. But no one's ever going to be able to prove it. Hmm. Of the suspects, there were apparently confessions from more than 50 different people. Some others say as many as 500 confessed. Okay.

It doesn't got a five in it. Yeah. Five and an O. So. And maybe another O. Apparently, the LA district attorney only considered 22 of these as viable. Still so many. 22 so many.

One early confession came from a 29-year-old soldier, Joseph Dumay. a couple of weeks after the murder he confessed but investigators revealed that DeMay had been at his army barracks in New Jersey at the time of the murder and cleared him of any involvement. Despite this he continued to claim he was the killer. Why?

He thought he blacked out and did it. But they're like, you didn't do it, but he was convinced he did. Isn't that wild? That's so weird. And I also, I love the idea of, you know, in my head, I think of movies and stuff of people being falsely accused

and the cops are just so ready to go, oh, great. We'll put this on this person. There's some evidence and it'd been like a night in their scenario. But this proves that it's the opposite of that. People are going, it was me and the cops like, I don't reckon it was.

In certain, you know, that kind of scenario, the cops would be like, great, dust their hands off. Yeah. We did it. Yeah. But they're like, I don't know if you did, mate. Yeah, prove it you guilty, mate. I don't understand why you would say you did. Yeah, I'm not.

notoriety, you know. But, fuck. Yeah, it must, that's why I think maybe the money thing must have had something to do with it. It's like a modern day fortune or at the time, also a fortune. Yeah. Modern day fortune wasn't required. So, so many suspects, so many that I can't go through them all.

Just quickly, though, interestingly, there are a few celebrity suspects named. Though seemingly they'll never take it too. seriously? The hoff. The hoff as well. Really? Wow. Imagine he wasn't even quite born yet. Then it turns out he was actually in Germany.

Where he's massive. Although there was a tie mark of the scene. What was Kit doing that guy? He drove two iconic cars. Also the doon buggy from Baywatch. Maybe not quite. Didn't have a name, did it? A memory came up on.

my Facebook page a couple of weeks ago. I was in LA. If I tell this story before, how I tried to hire a convertible Mustang and they go, we're going to upgrade you. Sorry, there's no Mustang.

We're going to upgrade you to a Nissan maximum. I'll have a word. We might even be able to get you a sunroof. I'm like, oh, that's not really what I'm. Anyway, eventually we got the Mustang and we would,

and there's this video on my private Facebook page of us driving down a highway from San Francisco to LA top down with the Baywatch theme blasting or else you go on great memory, wind in the hair but imagine if you done that in a NIST now that's badass

oh my god or a Hyundai as they say I love how they say words over there Adidas Adidas which would be completely normal to them yeah

I'm saying Adidas they'd be like that's fucking stupid but it's the other way around for us. You sound dumb. Do they say Puma? Yeah. Puma. Puma.

That's not a Puma. The most American man of all, Arnold Schwarzenegger, in kindergarten cop. So the celebrity, as well as. Because I was trying to think of whites from that movie. A couple of them. What would you say? What do you think I was referencing when you love? That's a bit that I've forgotten.

That sounds pretty funny. It's not a Puma. Who is your daddy and what does he Puma? What a beautiful insight. It's so funny. You laughed quite a lot and I was like, that's a pun and it went quite well. Oh, that is a pun.

I've changed tumour to pool my. Oh, that's made my stomach hurt. Oh, very good. That's the second time in two days. I've laughed like that. Yesterday I laughed because we went to KFC. That is funny. He's going to stay.

I needed to know what happened. I wanted chips and we went to KFC and had to order the chips in the drive-thru. And he's terrible. You'd just say, could I have a large and a regular chips or medium chips and large chips, please. There you go, yes, hi. Yes, exactly. How are you?

I was wondering if we could please get one large chips. She went, yep, and is that all? No, can we also have it? I was just like, oh my God, hurry it. You don't want her to repeat back to him every item? Yeah, I was crying and the passenger seat laughing so hard. Is that it? No.

I will also have Not a Puma That's good stuff Dave Sorry man Let's talk death again We're talking about how they Oh the celebrity suspects And we got to Hoffman

To Hoff To get to Kitt To Nissan To Schwarzenegger That was a long way around All right A few more YouTube comments Have just come up

I think Who celebrities Who celebrities from the 40s Humphrey Bogart. Folk singer Woody Guthrie. Oh. He's, you know, one of the sort of legends of folk. And also Hollywood legend, Orson Wells.

Really? Really? And it feels like there's, you know, you could build a narrative around it. But I'm not going to do that because it was dismissed pretty quickly. But there were sort of, you know, if you read an article about it, you will go, oh, you can, you could believe it. but that's the thing about it as well, depending on who you read, I'm convinced by everyone.

Yeah. So that's why mysteries are so unsatisfied. So in your mind, everyone did it. Yeah, like I'll be reading about one person. I'm like, oh, this guy definitely did it. No, hang on, this guy even more definitely did it. If I was a cop at the time, those jails would have been full, all from this one crime.

Anyway, that brings me to the end of my report. It's obviously a super sad, brutal story. It's wild that it's held the public's attention for so long And then it's kept the name of the black dahlia Because for some reason I thought I didn't know much about it But I thought it was like they didn't know who she was Yes and that's why they

That's why they called it the back to Dalia But they knew who she was So why don't just refer to her by her name? I know And I had to like I went through And I'd refer to her by a name throughout But most articles don't I'd just say the black dahlia

So we know who she is Yeah just use her name Let's give her a fucking name That's so strong For some reason I always thought it was like a Jane Doe and they could never figure out who it was. Yeah. But they knew straight away. I assumed, yeah, I did assume that too.

They knew straight away. That's so strange. Do you have, obviously, it's ridiculous to have an idea of who you think might have done it. Was there anything in there that made you think one more than the other? It's because it's the same thing. It's like, as soon as you talk about someone new, I forget the last one. Yeah. Yeah, it was this guy.

Patrick? Yeah, the one whose son's trying to go after him. I just feel like he just needs to drop the circumstantial evidence stuff and go, just look at this transcript. Yeah. But then there's other people, like there's, you know, 50 to 500 people who also said they did it. So I guess you can't. Yeah, no, because I hear that and go, well, we've got him on tape.

Yeah. He said he did it. But then there's other people going in. I say, I'll sign enough. Yeah, some people that are knocking on a police at headquarters being like, yeah, I did it. Maybe that was just like, you know, back then it was like their version of planking, you know? Right, yeah. It was like an ice bucket challenge.

Modern craze at the time. Hashtag I did it. Yeah. But crazy and do we, I don't know, there's no explanation for why. But the crazy, brutal nature of the crime. Well, the chopping in half that kind of stuff. Yeah. I thought I'd read it.

down there was so many things I'm like I don't know how much of this I want to be talking about but there there was um one um like a psychologist or someone who was saying he it seemed to him like uh it was it was someone who was going who maybe was rejected by her in life going you you're not rejecting me now I'm punishing you for that that was his sort of he saw these signs of it being that kind of thing but you know all that's pretty it's just so fascinating. I wanted like, didn't exactly have the best life, did she? No, 22.

Yeah. The amount of, like, horrible, all these things you go, that one thing would traumatise you for life. For sure. She had so many, like, fiancé is dying in war. Father faking his death. Yeah, and then rejecting you. She's, like, having to be shipped around the country because of health issues, even.

Yeah. You know, any of these, like, that becomes this tiny thing. She had to live in a warmer climate because of her lung health. Yeah. She had to be sent away from her family. Yeah. You know, like just so many things. Kicked out of her,

reuniting with her dad and then being kicked out of home, basically. Being sent home by the police just because you were in a restaurant with a hotel. Yeah, that's dumb. Yeah, just awful. And so, you're right, so unsatisfying that they, that we don't know. Want answers, God damn it. Yes. Anyway, I don't know if any listeners have strong ideas about this.

definitely send us a tweet or whatever. Put your ideas into a short tweet. Yeah. You know, you could send a long email, but then you'd have to read it. Bob, and I don't know if you want to be going through. I'd happily forward that onto you, yeah.

Great. But yeah, if you don't, you can follow us on social media. What a gross tie into social media. Actually, I'm going to bail on that. Don't. Remember, hashtag, I did it. That, yeah, so that that is the end of that dark report.

And also bring us the end of Blocktober. Yeah. But yeah, I do appreciate people because I really only have heard her name from people suggesting it as a topic over the last four years or however long we've been doing the show. I've never heard of it before then. But even back in the early days, I reckon people tweeted Black Dahlia to us as a suggestion. And then since we got the hat system, that form, which will be linked to. If you have suggestions for topics, you can click the link in the show description and give us those suggestions.

Yes, Dave, we're about to do our Patreon section, but you were going to tell us about something. I forget what you wanted to do. Oh, that's right. So one of our rewards, this would be the fourth annual Christmas card that we are going to send out in December. Is it four? Or is it number three? Yeah, no, it is number four. This is our fourth Christmas girl.

Yeah. What? Yeah, we did the one with the candy canes, another photo. Then last year we had some fantastic artwork. And again this year we have commissioned a fantastic artist. Yes. It's another brilliant visual piece of art. Oh, a feast for the eyes.

Yes. So we've got the design. And basically, we always say that you pledged before November 1st at the $5 or more above, just basically to cover our postage and printing costs. via Patreon if you're there via November 1st which is coming up this week Yeah two days from our Friday

Basically we lock the list off And go yep these people have supported us On this date thank you so much And then we will send you a Christmas card Wherever you are in the world And also a reminder of you are on Patreon Double check that your address is up to date Because we always have people being like

Oh no I moved six months ago I forgot to change it Yeah My old neighbour got My old at just got my Christmas card. So please, yeah, make sure your details are up to date. And if you want to get a Christmas card with this fantastic original artwork.

Go to patreon.com slash do go on pod. And at the same time, support the show and get a bunch of other rewards, including those bonus episodes that we spoke about at the top of the show. And some other stuff that Matt's going to take us through now. It's not a Puma. That does bring us to the fact quote or question segment of the show. Everyone's favorite segment, which has a jingle that goes like this. Fact quote or question.

Puma. And this week I'm going to start doing two because we've got a few more people on this level now. So just to make sure that we can get through everyone's. We're at the point where it would have taken a year to do each person. So I'm going to do two an episode now so that we can make sure we keep getting people's facts, quotes and questions out there. So I'd love to start off this week with Jessica. English. And as well as giving us a factor quote or a question, you also get to give yourself a title.

And Jessica has given herself the title of Chief Counsel for Risks and Fuck Ups. Oh, I like that. That's handy. We needed one of those. That spot had been sitting vacant for quite a while. Yeah, thank goodness. The hiring process was pretty in depth and in depth. Is that it? Yep. I'm losing my mind. Her fact, Jessica's fact, is

Sydney Scheinberg turned down a script for a prequel to Jaws based on the story of the USS Indianapolis told during Jaws by Quint played by Robert Shaw the old Essonan footballer I assume So that's the name of the actor I'm guessing Quint is the main actor in Jaws

No the main is he the We Need a Bigger Boat guy Yeah No he doesn't say we need a bigger boat does he Who's Quint? I should watch that movie again. Wasn't it Richard Dreyfus? He says we're going to need a big of life? I was thinking of Martin Lawrence.

I actually don't remember who says it. Maybe I'm wrong. Who said, oh God. New fuck fact. New fucked. Who says we're going to need. Google has everything. Who says?

I love me just tie a question into Google. And somebody else is also asked it and you're like, oh, I'm not alone. Roy Schneider, who played Brody in the movie. Oh, yeah, it wasn't. A different person again. Right. So then Quint is a one with glasses. Okay.

Played by the Essend for plural, I'm sure. She says it's a crazy story that would make a good do-go-on episode. Ah, so Sydney-Shaunberg turned down a script for a prequel to Jaws based on the story of the USS Indianapolis told during Jaws by Quinn. That's sounds interesting. Indianapolis. Huh. That is a good fact. Thank you, Jessica.

English. I wonder why Scheinberg turned it out. His instincts were always so right. Yeah. He wanted to take a chimp out of it. He was always tracking chimps out. He should be a giant chimp in the water. There should be a giant chimp.

Stop doing my bits, day. I think we branched on that bit together. We did too. He was your director for that show. You remember? No, that's a new bit. But we knew it. tried to put it in that show, it just didn't quite fit.

Okay, great. It's a funny bit, though. Talk about Sizzle. Come see a Melbourne International Comedy Festival. See if that bit survives. And also, Jamie Griffiths, he's, he's put two, he's doubled up here.

So he's given himself, do you want to, do you want his question or his fact? Because I'm not sure. Question! Great. Sorry, Dave, what did you want? Question! He, he's,

He has given himself the title of Head of Inhuman Resources. Oh, I like that. Very good for, it feels like that's very appropriate for Blockawain as well. Ooh, it's a spooky thing. So his question is, what podcasts do you guys listen to or recommend? I imagine both. I'd recommend one you don't listen to. I love this, but you'll hate it, mate.

Do you know where he's from? Oh, Jamie Griffin. Just because one that I've been listening to is, we'll probably only be relevant or interesting to Australians. Okay, well, that's okay. I think you can, he's asking for everyone. Double J has just done a podcast series about the Big Day Out. Ah, yes, you recommend that to me.

I've got to check that out. It's really great. Because that used to be my life. Are you a bit too young for Big Day Out or did you catch the end of it? I wanted to go to one. And I said to my boyfriend at the time, I was like, we should go to big day out. And he was like, nah, the lineups are that great this year. And I was like, okay, whatever.

And so we didn't go. In the meantime, I booked a girl's trip away with some friends. And then later found out he was going a big day out. And I was like, what the fuck? And he said, I bought you tickets as a surprise. But then you were going on your holiday. So I just didn't say anything. You got to

If you're going to do a surprise present You've got to give a decoy plan Yeah Yeah You got to give a decoy plan So he went And that's amateur hell stuff And I didn't go

And that was the only one that I What year? Who had played that year? I reckon that must have been maybe 2019 No wait 20 2009 is what I meant sorry 2019 2009 maybe

It's actually 2019 So Yeah right Maybe I reckon I probably went to I went to quite a... I must have gone to eight of them or something. It probably would have been one of the last ones.

When did it end? That's a good question. 2010? It feels like it was ages ago, but maybe it wasn't. And I, yeah, because I was away with friends, it must have been later. We were at least 20. Who knows? So, it ran in Melbourne until 2014.

Oh, it was only five years ago, I think. Okay. It might have been 12, 12, 2012. 2012. Yep. I feel like I was there that year. Yeah, damn. Anyway, that's a really good podcast.

Dave, you listen to any podcasts? I absolutely love, have been loving, getting back into the UK sketch trio Pappies. Pappies. And when we were in London last year, we went and saw Tom, Tom Perry is one of the guys. He was the guy. Oh, yeah. Took his shirt off a lot. We saw him do a trial stand-up show.

And I really, really like his stuff. him Matthew and Ben three guys that do this sketch show called Pappy's flat chair slam down

which is like a quiz show where Matthew plays the landlord and pretends that he's living with the two guys the other two guys and they come along and they just play

these ridiculous games that's recorded live and it's just a fun show but then they've started doing this new thing called Beef Brothers where people send in their beefs

and they sort them out and they have a guest on now. It's very, very funny. So it used to come out only sporadically in series, but now they're putting out a new episode every week. That's cool. Really laugh at Pappies. They're funny dudes.

All right. There's two I should listen to. Jamie is from W.A. Oh, right. So he may well be interested in that. I'd say, I've got a few favorites. I love all the Planet Broadcasting podcast, obviously. I imagine that you'd be aware of all those.

I was on a recent one of Josh Earl's podcast with three. of my favorite musicians. It was pretty wild. Sitting in this room. Yeah. Jess Ribeiro was sitting in this chair. Tim Rogers was sitting where you're sitting. Crazy.

Josh Earl was sitting where Dave's sitting. What? I was sitting where no one's sitting. Yeah. And Kevin Mitchell was sitting here. That's a bloody good pod. And it, so, I mean, I didn't mention this to him, but I saw Kevin Mitchell at a big day out probably in like 2007 or two years ago.

And the power cut out during their set. And they, you know, they were sort of just left up there, you know, scrambling. Scambling. And I reckon other bands are going, we'll walk off and come back when the power's back on. Because they couldn't even talk to the mics, you know. It's a huge festival. But they instead, while they waited, they played leapfrog. That's a band.

They lined up and just played leapfrog against each other, because of the stage. They're like, these guys are fucking legends. That's great. Just so cool and calm and collected under pressure. Do you know what, for a podcaster, I don't actually listen to enough podcasts. I'm a big podcast fan. I'm on another one this week that I'd recommend. I've been listening to a lot of people who like drinking.

It's called That's the Drink Talking. And it's with David Quirk and Harley Breen. I love David Quirk. And it's recorded at the SBA and iconic Aussie rock pub. And yeah, there's like a lot of great comedians and me on it over the last couple of months. And they also get in like brewers and the wine equivalent of brewers. And you know, the... Also, I think distillers probably.

It's, yeah, that's interesting if you're into drinking culture and just a couple of funny guys chatting. They're very funny guys. One more that I also like. And I don't listen to every episode. I sort of drop in and out. Is Daniel Connell's podcast taking it easy? Oh, yeah. That's a great podcast.

Taking it easy and he just sort of has a house cup. Yeah, I have a while ago last year. You took it easy with him. Meso from Planet Broadcasting's been on it. Yeah, he just gets, and it's not just comedians. He talks to all sorts of different people, spoken to, like, vets and, you know, doctors and people just doing different things. And he's chats to them, but he's just such a lovely and he's such a good chat.

And he asks good questions. His ads at the start are so funny. So good. It's the same run. Anyway, I won't ruin that flavor. Has your car shit itself? It's so fun. So good.

But yeah, I hope that's helpful, maybe something in there that you'd be interested in. Yeah. Also, there's a brand new podcast out this week called Listen Now. Yes. Which is on our podcast network. We're a network within a network. And it's recorded in this very studio. It's with me and my cousin Sam Tonkin. And we're going through back catalogs of music.

This first season, potentially the only one we ever do. But if we have fun, we'll keep doing it. It's about Australian band Cold Chisles. They're like Oz pub rock legends. The first episode, we actually, we talk about what pub rock is and we go through that. and then talk about a bit of the origins of cold chisel, and then from then on we go album by album.

And it has been quite a bit of fun. Awesome. Yes. I love that. Anyhow, so that's Jamie Griffiths. Thank you so much. If you want to get in the fact quote or question segment of the show, you can support us at patreon.com.com slash do googpod.

And support us on the Sydney Shineberg deluxe level. Hey, I just remembered something as well. I'm going to put in someone like a year ago a listener made us a fact quote a question jingle that I've never put in his Instagram handle is Shatter the Skies. So here is the jingle. I have a fact. Do you all have a fact? No, I have a quote because I like them the most. But do you know why you just bet as a host?

You asked a question. Fact quote or question. Yes, Jess. That's pretty sick. Wow. Jess, you're out of a job. Fair enough. Oh, no.

So the other thing we like to do at this time in the Patreon segment of the show, which is fast becoming about as long as the rest of the show, we like to thank a few of our other great patrons. And these are patrons who've probably been supporting us for about a year now. Bloody legends, one and all. and Jess you normally give us a little game based on the topic or something else maybe maybe today not the well no not the topic but I but also the topic okay they're not murdered but I want to give them a colour and a flower oh great that's nice you know but it doesn't

end with murder I like that about it very much all right well how about I I go first and and you give us a colour please and a flower maybe you give us a colour Dave you give us a flower for from MA is that Maryland Dave is that Maryland America's oldest state it could also be Massachusetts could also be Michigan

for some reason we need to ask Gary Gary Goldman USA State sorry Massachusetts Boston where Elizabeth Short was born and I'd love to thank

from Massachusetts Merrimack Massachusetts, Jesse Mark Russell. First colour you think of Bob. Gay green! Do you say gay green? No. Gangrene.

Oh, gang green? That's a nasty colour. I said green. Oh. I didn't say gay green. Oh, you said gah green. Yeah. You were shocked.

Ah! And then you're wearing green. And I was looking at you. Oh. So I said green. Sorry to... Dave's had a lot of time. Reve too much of the...

Think of a flower now. First flower. Daisy. Green daisy. That's not bad. Doesn't make sense, but... Yeah, are there any green players? No, it's just not ripe yet.

Yeah, that's right. I don't think there's any actual black dahlies either. Yeah. Although I'd have no idea. Excuse your imagination, Dave. Fuck. Jesse Mark Russell, thank you so much for your support. Thank you, Jesse.

Thank you, Jesse Mark Russell. Great name. J.M.R. Love that. I'd also love to thank from Bonnie Bridge in Great Britain, Claire Hazard. Claire has it a guess Alright Dave,

Dave, first colour, go. Pink? Pink. Flower. Uh, rose. Pink rose.

That's lovely. That's a real thing. Okay. Green Daisy, very fun, cartoony. Pink rose, elegant, beautiful. Yes.

Single stem. Oh, classy. Classy. Sounds like a perfume. Oh, pink rose. May I also thank some people.

You buy it a chemist Yeah, on discount. From boots. Yeah, could you please thank someone? I would love to thank the people from Goulwa. Goulwa. Pardon me? In South Australia.

I beg you. Pardon you? Guzuntard. I would like to thank Heidi Oterwell. Oh, Heidi Oterwell. If I was going to say a colour, do you want me to say a colour? Color, go. Marone.

It's because I'm wearing marone. Because you both wear maron. Yeah, we can watch it. coordinate, we're cute. Yeah. Dave, first flower. Lotus. Maron Lotus.

It's kind of fun to say. Yeah, maron lotus. Moron Lotus. There's a lot going on there. It's a bit of a tongue twister. It's an adventure for the mouth. Maron Lotus. Maron Lotus.

Thank you to Heidi, you to Heidi, Otterwell, Claire Hazard, Jesse Mark Russell. Fantastic names today. So good. Well, cop this. Okay. In your face. Howl.

I would like to thank from Melbourne. Okay. Australia? Australia. Florida. Melbourne, Australia. Melbourne, Australia. Australia. Andy Schillinglaw.

Oh my gosh. Did you just cast a spell on my heart? Schillinglaw. Oh, there was a Schillinglaw cottage. One of the first houses near where I grew up in Eltham. Oh, okay. Well, then name, my colour. It was grey.

It was a grey house. Oh, think of a flower mat. Chrysanthemum. Is that a thing? Oh, that's nice. A grey chrysanthemum. I wouldn't know what that looks like, but yeah. Oh, I just thought of a grey chrysandthum.

cool flower for next time. Keep that in the holster. I feel like Chris Anthonums might be Mother's Day flowers. Right, okay. I think any flower is a Mother's Day flower. Happy Mother's Day, here's some grey flowers. I think most flowers I know are associated

with a day or something. Or when you fucked up, am I right? Sorry, Mom. One time I got flowers and Dad said, oh, he's in trouble, is he? I was like, no. Was he? No.

Oh, what did he do? Yeah. It's like, oh, bloody grovelling, is he? Yeah, no, I've done that. Yeah, I'm like, no, he's just being nice. You know, that's, that's what the media does to men. We're always the villain. You know what I mean?

So now men can't even do a nice thing. What's the man feminists thing? I'm the man feminist of this podcast. And I like to say, it's about time men had a fair go. Dave, thanks and people so don't punch man in the throat. Oh, right. I'd like to think from Essex in the UK. Jack Jefford.

Oh, Jack, Jeffer. Jay, Jay. Jay, Jefford. Jefford's good. Jess has got a flower ready to go. So let me do a color. Yeah. Strawbrabrebre.

Strawbray. And the flower is? Agapanther. Oh. Strawberrybrebre. Even your face halfway through was like, Abort, abort. Abort.

I don't want to do a port on street. I'm like, that's not a color. It's a fruit. But I was too far. If anything, it's closer to a flower. Yeah. We've got a double flower here. Strawberry.

That's me trying to back out of a saying a word. Strawberry brough. You can't reverse time. I wish. But now, Jack Jefford has a strawberry, Aga Panther. No, a strawberry brad. Sorry, beg your pardon. Strawbrugra, Aga Panther.

He was famous for writing. murder mysteries Yes And finally I would like to thank from New Glasgow in Nova Scotia, Canada Thank you so much

I know they upgraded it Now there's already a colour here So we could go for it It's Fraser green Too obvious Too obvious We've already done in green Blue!

Thank you Out of the box Holyhock Split green in half You get blue Holyhock flower Have you heard of the Holyhock flower?

I know Hollyhock Hawk from Bojack Horseman I know Holly Hawk from a cave lyric. Really? So it's a type of flower. And I only know that because when I was in Los Angeles, just last week. A few days ago, I saw a, you can go and see Frank Lloyd Wright, the famous American architect. There's one house in L.A. that you can visit.

And it's called Hollyhock House. Because the lady who built it, who was an heiress, her father was an oil tycoon. She loved Hollyhock and she wanted everything to look like Hollyhock flowers. Oh. There you go to the blue Holyhock. That is the nickname for Fraser Green. Blue Hollyhock. I like that.

Yeah, what does the Holy Hook? Let me Google Hollyhock. I just know it from. Oh, that's quite pretty. That's a cool flower. Yeah. It was a cool house too. They look real British.

They are. It says here they're a native to Asia and Europe. Okay. You just looked at a flower and said it looks British. There's just some of it. You know, that looks like Peter Bunny Rabbit would be popping around there. Peter Bunny Rabbit. Peter Rabbit.

Straw robbery. Oh, no. Peter Buddy Rabbit. I feel like there's a few signs that we should be bringing this to a close. Yeah, let's get out of here. I thank you so much to everyone that supports the show on Patreon. And one more time, if you want to get that Christmas card, make sure you get on an A sap. So we've got your name and address.

We can send you that in the mail. And thank you so much to our beautiful bouquet of flowers. Fraser, Jack, Andy, Heidi, Claire and Jesse. Oh, our little flowers. Precious little flowers. If you want to get in touch, you can email us at dogoonpod at gmail.com. We dogoon pod on all of our socials or everything's on dogoonpod.com. Oh, yeah.

Hell, yes. And sadly, that brings us to the end of Block Tofa Grace month. I'm looking forward to Bloxing Day tomorrow. What are you going to do for Bloxing Day? Oh, I'll go to the blocking day sales. Oh, wow. But yeah, thanks to everyone that voted on topics, suggested any of those awesome topics. It's been, I reckon our best block yet.

I reckon so too. Here's to an even better block next year. Oh, block 20-20. That's cool. I love the festive time of year because from here on, it's all festive. We're moving into the other famous festive period of the year. Thanksgiving. Which is, I think, sometime coming up.

Yeah, and huge here in Australia. Yeah, a president, part of the year. The gardens of Turkey. That's the best bit. Yeah. I love the fact that the American president does a bit of pantomime. That's so weird. Is that still a thing? Probably.

Yeah, Obama definitely used to do it. Oh, my gosh. Oh, that, so Trump's going to do it. That is going to be interesting. Anyway, let's go. We've got to go. Thank you so much. We'll be back next week with another episode.

And remember, come to Perth this weekend. Thank you. Goodbye. Later. Bye. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting. Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates.

I mean, if you want, it's up to you. Uno, a momento, me editing. Sorry. Sorry. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do In her 2010 book, The Black Dahlia shattered dreams. Brenna Hogan, Schwarz's father said short's father Cleo work built. Try again.

This is a really poorly written paragraph. Sorry. Let me try again and try and fill in the blank words as I go. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. Wherever we go, we always hear six months later, oh, you should come to Manchester. We were just in Manchester. But this way you'll never miss out. And don't forget to sign up, go to our Instagram, click our link tree.

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