Two In The Think Tank - 259 - The Donner Party

Episode Date: October 7, 2020

In the Spring of 1846, The Donner Reed Party set out on a journey across the United States. They had no idea that they were embarking on what would become one of the most harrowing journeys in history. A terrible shortcut, bad weather and some ridiculous decisions later... their names and what they had to do to survive quickly became part of US folklore.Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodBuy tickets to our streamed shows (there are 8 available to watch now! All with exclusive extra sections): https://sospresents.com/authors/dogoonCheck out our web series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2TuMQ31VXvqqEus9Bo6FZW-dDY5ukEuh Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-TopicTwitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasREFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.legendsofamerica.com/ca-donnerparty/http://www.donnerpartydiary.com/members.htmlhttps://allthatsinteresting.com/donner-partyhttps://www.atlasobscura.com/places/donner-party-artifacts-memorial

Hey everybody, Jess and Dave, just jumping in really quickly at the top here to make sure that you are across all the details for our upcoming Christmas show. That's right, we are doing a live show in Melbourne Saturday December the 2nd, 2023, our final podcast of the year, our Christmas special. It's downstairs at Morris House, which usually be called the European beer cafe. On Saturday December the 2nd, 2023 at 4.30 pm, come along, come one, come all and get tickets at dogoonpod.com. Peloton is ready when you are.

And with up to $700 off your Peloton bike plus purchase, there's no better time to bring it home for the holidays and work out your way. Unleash everything, it's your workout, your rules. As long as you show up Peloton's instructors will help you show off and keep you coming back for more For Peloton's best offer of the season head to one peloton dot com all access Merships separate terms applause at Nordstrom

You can shop the best holiday gifts for everyone you love all in one place You'll find beauty favorites, cozy presents, fun ideas under 100 and more. Like festive dressing for you in your home. Experience the magic at your favorite store. Or order on Nordstrom.com with free shipping and returns. Need it faster? Pick up your order today in store. The best gifts are yours at Nordstrom. This episode is brought to you by Progressive. Most of you aren't just listening right now. You're driving, cleaning, and even exercising. But what if you could be saving money by switching to Progressive?

Drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average, and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Multitask right now, quote today at progressive.com. Progressive casualty and trans company and affiliates, national average 12 month savings of $744 by new customer surveyed, who saved with progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary, discounts not available in all safe and situations. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planet broadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mites. and situations. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnocky and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins.

Hey Dave, hey Jess. Hi Matt, hi Dave. Hello. So good to be hanging out with you once again. Oh, you're not sick of us yet? No, well now. Coming up to five years of doing, is that right?

Coming up to five? Yeah, five years next month. And you're still in love with us? Is what I'm getting through back? I'm still deeply, madly, truly in love with you. Oh, sorry that you had to hear that everyone, but it's nice to connect every now and then. It's still, I still look forward to it every episode.

I can't wait to do it. Sometimes when I've written a report, I feel some trepidation, but when I'm coming in to listen to a day of a Jess report, I feel so excited and happy to be here. Pumped up, can't wait. And are you even more pumped up because it is now officially block season? Woo!

It is my favorite month of the year. I love blocktober. It is the best for new listeners. Blocktober is where we do the most requested topics of the year and sometimes of all time. But yeah, so this is our third year of doing it. It's big. It's the biggest thing in podcasting and possibly in world media. I believe so. Yeah, I can't think of anything world media-wise that is bigger than it. I don't think anything's ever trended on Twitter the entire month before, but this, I assume will. Yeah. Yeah.

Has that block? It has the last two years, so I don't see why I'm on this year's block. I'm for a three-page. Everyone put those block hashtags out there. Everybody. Everyone. Even if it's not relevant to your tweet. Well, this year's block was so big that we thought there's only four Wednesdays,

which is when this episode comes out in Australia in October. So we decided to... Annex, as Matt put it last week, which I really loved, a fifth Wednesday. So last week was actually the first episode of block where we covered the OJ Simpson trial, something that people have been requesting basically the entire time we've been doing this show.

And I've got another all-time request up for you today, but before we get going, Matt, how does the show work? All the way it works is one of us will go away and research a topic. In this case, which has been voted on by the listeners, and they bring that research back, they'll put it into a report form and they'll come back and report it to the other two, while the other two sit quietly and respectfully and listen along. Maybe occasionally interjecting to say, I'm really enjoying this report,

pick it up. Or to ask very relevant pertinent questions. pertinent is the key there. Our only pertinent, it's an unwritten rule we have on this podcast. You're going to ask a question, better be pertinent. Better be pertinent. Dave, last week obviously with Matt's OJ Simpson report, which was fantastic, but also a huge topic to take on. So it was a mammoth episode.

Probably one of our longest or is it the longest? I believe last week was the longest ever. It wasn't really, oh wow. So how are we looking today, Dave? Do I need to go get snacks? Is essentially what I'm asking in a roundabout way. I think we've got another wopper on our hands. God damn.

Oh, you should have got the snacks out. And that goes for you at home as well. I brought a navel orange. The greatest eating orange of them all. So looking forward to cracking that open at some point. And hopefully the listeners enjoy hearing me munch and all. Well, let me tell you. Wow, that's really interesting.

You're a, I gotta say, you're unlikely to feel hungry throughout this episode. Okay. Okay. So I should just get a very thick drink. Yeah. Or maybe, or just for the first half of the episode, you'll be right. But then back half. Okay. Just so I should just get a very thick drink. Yeah. Or maybe, or just for the first half of the episode, you'll be right. But then back half, it's not really hunger inducing.

I've got to say. All right, snack early, that's what you're saying. It's weird for our listeners to have picked something that was a little bit off. A lot of sounds of it. A bit grim by the sounds of it. Well, it is a bit off. And I believe that you both know what the topic is for, which is

unusual. Usually you don't know the topic. Jess is shaking ahead. I'm going, I remember it, but I can't think of what it's called. Okay, because yeah, I've definitely do know what it was. Well, because my question was just going to be, because we always start with a question to get onto topic, it was just going to be, what was the fourth most voted topic of 2020?

Okay. It's called gonna be, what was the fourth most voted topic of love 2020? Okay. It's called the something exploration or something. Let me, I'll give you a clue. There ain't no party like a something like. Dover party. Dona. Dona.

Dona, dover. You fucking idiot. Dona party. Dona party. They're right. I hope they're hopefully there's no party like that. From the very small thing I know about it. Yeah, things went wrong. It sounds like about halfway through things went awry.

That's right. That's when you stop munching on your snacks. I've definitely put the Donna party up for a Vodorek in before, and it's obviously not one. Otherwise, we would have done it. But I've skimmed Wikipedia, but I don't know much, so I'm a bit excited about this. I feel like this might be one of those topics that's big in America, or maybe not so big elsewhere. Yeah, so when I was researching it,

I was sort of coming, I got the vibe that it was a bit like Ned Kelly and the Kelly game here in Australia, where we're all, most Aussies are vaguely aware of the details, but how much you know really differs from person to person. So I think a lot of people have like the, you know, the one paragraph summary where they're, oh, that's the party where this happened, but I don't know if everyone knows all the details. So hopefully I fill in a few blanks, even if you have grown up knowing this in your country's folklore. A lot of Americans have the Donoparty helmet tattooed on their back.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there going to be a helmet in this? Yeah. Because otherwise, is it really folk music? Is there some kind of shoot-up at a pub? There's a bit of shooting in this. Okay. This story's got it all. It's actually been, it is honestly up there with OJ

with one of our most requested topics and has been in the nearly five years we're doing the show. I reckon it's been in the hat that whole time. I even went back to the original hat and it was in there a couple of times. It's actually been suggested by a whopping 29 people. Wow! Do we have time for me to read out these names? Oh, you got it. Let's just do them quickly. That's our second time.

I won't say where people are from. Just before we get into it, I won't stop like an omitoo after each one and say what a great name. Just this is a blanket. These are all great names. And I haven't even heard them yet, but I'm assuming. Oh, if you like how we're getting into it quickly. Well, the first name, give me a chance to after I hear them, I'll confirm or deny. Well, the first name is going to blow you away. I'll let you comment on the first name. And that is Emily.

Whoa. That's it. I love it. I love it. That is fantastic. What a name. Is that two names or one name? That's one name. No hyphens. One name. Okay. Emily. So classic name. Thanks to Emily. So, classic name. Thanks to Emily.

And so some people just gave their first name, so maybe you'll know this is you. Emily, Garrett Oakley, Tobias, Jared Schaefer, Mackenzie Castanada, whoa. Mark Belcom, Ian Watson, Mateo Ocampo, Ronan O'Neal, Brandon Castanada, a different Castanada. Wow. Chicobe D'Angel, Brandon Castanada, a different Castanada. Wow. Chikobi D'Angel, Mike Wincler, Jesse Britton,

Louis Wagner, Ryan Campbell, Emily Hyatt, Danny McMeans, William Young, Joshua Curie, Stephen or Stefan Tucker, McKenna Middlebrook, Gabby Felkeoni. Whoa. Joseph Nataro drew Lamas. So good. Tobias Cain's Emily Nutson and way back from the old hat, Kelvin M Parker Bang. My God. That is so, I mean, yeah, they're a group of some of the finest names ever assembled. There was two Tobias in there. I don't know, a single Tobias.

Yeah, that's amazing, isn't it? And there were also, there were quite a few Patreon supporters in there as well. I want a great list of names. That's also, I'm feeling so confident this is going to be a great story. Well, let us jump into it. Hashtag block. Hashtag block forever. So give me a second to give you a bit of a background here, guys. Okay. We're going back to it. Is this, this is still included in the podcast of a background here, guys. OK. We're going back to... Is this... This is still included in the podcast?

Oh, yeah, yeah. OK. We're going back to 1845. Ah. So, in 1845, newspaper editor and columnist, John O. Sullivan coined the term, manifest destiny. Ah. Which is the belief that in the United States of America, the land between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans belonged to European Americans and that they should settle

it all. Oh my God. So that encompasses all the land for you playing. The idea is that the United States is destined by God to expand its dominion and spread democracy and capitalism across the entire North American continent. Right. And this term really took off.

Okay. According to history.com, quote, the philosophy drove 19th century US territorial expansion and was used to justify the forced removal of Native Americans and other groups from their homes. End quote. Because it's our destiny to take it. Well, that is what God wants, I guess. I guess.

Yeah. That seems like a weird thing for God to want, but be honest. Yeah. But they say he works a mysterious way. So I guess this will work out for the best. For the best. Like, yes. It's going, huh?

How about it? How about him? All her. So that influential phrase manifest destiny was coined by My friends. My friends. Thanks. Go on, huh? How about it? How about him? All the... So, that influential phrase, Manifest Destiny, was coined by editor John O'Sullivan in 1845. It should be noted that in the following year, investors were dissatisfied with his poor management, and he lost control of his magazine.

So I'm not sure if God had big plans for him after all. But his term lived on in the hearts of many Americans in the 19th century and justified a lot of what they did. Also one year after Quenny the term, one of the most infamous journeys in US history took place. This story has shocked and fascinated for the more than half a century that's passed since. A talk, of course, about the Donner party,

sometimes known as the Donner Reed party. Not the Dover party. Not the the Donna party, sometimes known as the Donna Reed party. Not the Dover party. Not the Dover party, sorry. Dissagree. Dissagree. Dissagree. Great to disagree, I don't want. And let me just say it is an absolutely fuck story, so let us begin.

Oh. In the United States, in the 1840s, the population was a bit shy of 20 million people, but it was growing rapidly. The largest population centers were mostly on the east coast and the Midwest of the country. Basically, if you're looking at the map, nearly everyone was contained in the eastern third of the country, as a percentage of population mostly in the eastern third. But with the rapid expansion and two economic depressions in the first half of the 18th century, sorry, 19th century, more and more were starting to slowly move west to seek prosperity.

Mostly to Michigan, Arkansas, Wisconsin and Iowa. And in 1946 famously thousands of Mormons ventured east to Salt Lake City in Utah. But some families were beginning to venture even further west, all the way to the Pacific Coast on the other side of the massive country taking the Oregon Trail, which is a journey of thousands of miles. Right, do you know where the name Oregon Trail comes from? It's just the Oregon's the destination on the other side. Yeah, that's a big part of it. Yeah. Right. And thousands upon thousands would soon join them for the 1849 California Gold Rush, but before that, when this story takes place, it wasn't a super well-worn path. Right. So there's the background on what's happening in America at this time? Over in one of our favourite cities, Springfield, what?

The capital of Illinois. In 1846, three families were preparing to travel to California. They were brothers, George and Jacob Donner and their two families. And local businessmen, James Reed and his family. Oh, poor Reed. So it's sometimes known as the Donna Reed party because there was a guy called Reed and a family called Donna.

And did the Reed guy not do his fuck up a stuff or what? I'm so curious as to find out why he's been banished. No, James Reed features heavily in this story. Okay, okay. I love that. What were the Donna brothers' names again? George and Jacob. Thank you. George and Jacob. Let me tell you about them. George and Jacob were

elderly, prosperous farmers, elderly for the time I should say, who were called... They're like 30. Younger than me probably. Yeah, elderly. They were in the late 50s, early 60s. Right. They were in the late 50s, early 60s. Right. And according to the fantastic and linked source, donnapartydiary.com, which dot com. Dot com. I always say dot com. I tell you, I tell you.

Dot com. It's a very saucy diary. You will dot com. If you read that. That's the tagline, if you don't read this. You will dot com if If you read that. That's the tagline if you don't read this. You will dot com if you don't read this. So donapuddy.com or dot com com. I can't even get it right when I've tried to fuck it up.

It lists their diaries. It says quote, Georgian Jacob had no reason to go to California. So there you go. I mean, do we ever have a reason to do anything other than like eating drinks? I must say, yeah, to survive. This month last year, I also went to California for a week. And I had no reason to go there. It's had a good time. What reason, Dave? You need a reason.

I wonder if maybe they were just chasing their Hollywood dreams, having over to Tinseltown. Look over that big break and they were too shy to say it in their diary. What? Is wanting some adventure and a change of scenery not a good enough reason to go on a trip? You're crazy. Maybe they're just trying to find themselves. They're trying to find themselves.

Well, they've already done a lot of traveling to find themselves, born in North Carolina. Oh, dear. Right, so... I've find themselves born in North Carolina. Oh, dear. So I've bought a pause in as Matt was peeling an orange. Fun fact, Michael Jordan played for North Carolina University. And during his time there had a lot of success. And he kept wearing his North Carolina shorts even through to his NBA career at the Chicago Bulls, but he wore them underneath his red Chicago Bulls shorts, obviously. And that meant he had to have a bigger baggy

of Chicago Bulls shorts. And as his fame grew, the fashion of his big baggy shorts grew as well. And now all the plays in the MBA wear big baggy shorts because of North Carolina University and those lucky MJ shorts. Wow. Just 125 years earlier, the Donner Party brothers had been born there. They'd already done a lot of traveling around the USA via Wagon, migrating across the country as many as five times all over. They had heard of the wonders of California

and decided to go for one last journey. But moving house sucks. God, but moving wagon, your house is the wagon. Hello, okay, less of a pack up, you know. Actually, I reckon with that, a lot of technology that we have now, moving house would be easier, you know. It's TVs and all the heavy shit. Hmm.

They didn't have catchers back then. No, yeah, having all kinds of new't have captures back then. Yeah, having all ties to your new electrical provider. Totally, internet. Oh, that's not an internet. Getting that connected in a timely manner, impossible. George Darner was 60 years old and was accompanied by his third wife, Tamson, who was...

Oh, I'm sorry. 45. Ranking your wives is a bit off today. Yeah, that's not on. If you've married her, just call her your wife. She's in the top three. Top three wives. I'll be around that. You left number four, five and six at home. What had happened to the other wives? I think they're still alike. You can't get divorced back then. No, I think that all died. A lot of people were dying back then and that continues on in this story.

So today... Yeah, it still happened. It's crazy that we haven't figured out how to stop death. What? 150 years later, I'm sure they would have predicted we would have stopped it by now, but anyway. I think those people were dying today than ever before. Wow, that's deep. That's a huge tack, Matt. His third wife was Tamson. She was 45, so a bit younger than him. Their three children were also there. Francis, six.

Georgia, four. Eliza, three. This is George, any name does your Georgia? Yeah. God damn it, George. I love that. He also brought his two daughters from a previous marriage, 14-year-old Alyther Cumi. Oh, shadowless.

And Leanna. 12. Jacob Donner, the younger brother, 56. He brought his wife, who was also 45, Elizabeth. And they have five children with them, ranging in ages from nine, down to three, including George, Mary, Isaac, Samuel, and Lewis. So five between the ages of nine and three.

Yeah. He really pumping them out. And starting late. So were they, that were, both in the 50s, you say? What she was 45. She was 45. And she'd already been married,

but widowed and she brought along her two kids from a previous marriage. Solomon Hook, who was 14. Fantastic. And William Hook, who was 12. So she had a 14, a 12, a 9, a 7, a 5, a 4, and William Hook, who was 12. So she had a 14, a 12, a 9, a 7, a 5, a 4, and a 3-year-old. There's so many kids in this. There's one question that comes to mind.

How do you entertain them? You can't just put them in front of the TV or give them a tablet. I know. What's the nightmare on the TV? You could give them a tablet. You saw, I know, I don't know how that turned probably. It sounds like the TV is not working even on a man. All right. That's another good one.

Well, like TV, I'm not working on your house. I think I'm going to start just being incredibly blunt. You're like, you have sex with your wife. All right. You're all right. Oops, someone's having sex with their spouse. So they've got lots of kids. Each brother had three wagons and two teamsters,

a teramata on the other hand in the Simpsons, when Homer tries to out-jorn and relax them when they're filming the radioactive man movie. Oh, yes. Just watch that race. Oh, yeah. Tilt out radioactive man. Is that Jiminy Gillick?

Is so many times a sloth storm, ain't it? Real house. We need to do the Jiminy Gillick scene again. We already did it. It took six hours. But we need to do it again. And again and again from different angles. And again and again and again.

So they had two teamsters. I didn't know what that was, but that's nowhere and Samuel who were basically to drive the teams of animals on the journey because the wagons are pulled by horses and also oxes. Oh. Okay. I love oxes.

Love big. You love big animals. Animal, I love thick animals. Bison. You love big animals. Animal, love thick animals. Bison, oh, they'd be, they'd be out amongst the bison probably. Yeah, this is real bison territory. Oh, bison country. Bison era. When I was in at Yellowstone,

I heard a bison surrounded my car. It was one of the great moments. Cool. So cool. Wow. Love them, big fat headed bostons. I was just cool. Just. Of them big fat-headed bastards. So cool. I was just before we started watching, I was watching a video of a whale surfing. What?

I was like, wow. And now they're great big-headed animals. They're all head. They're all head. Real big animals. They're head from all the way down to the tail. That's head. They're all head, baby. They're all head, baby. There was like, because it's from like a drone, and you can see creatures in the water, and I was like,

those must be the whales. No, no, those were dolphins. And then the camera moves, and you see this gigantic, massive whale, and there's people surfing, and the whale just catches the wave with them. It's like, weee, but it's huge. That is crazy. Biggest animal to have exists is the blue whale. That is wild.

Absolutely. Amazing isn't it? Throughout. It's a amazing fact. You're the Schumad dinosaur. It must have had been a bigger dinosaur than the blue whale, but probably not. Maybe one of my favorite ever facts. Is that a fun fact, Bob?

Yep. Oh, I did not believe it. Maybe one of my favorite ever facts. Is that a fun fact book? Yeah. Oh, I did not believe it. Wasn't that fun. Okay. I feel like that's a well-known fact. Oh, okay, I will know. I think it feels well known because you brought it up a few weeks ago, Matt.

You told us that Ben Russell told you that, maybe? Yeah, Ben. Now, what he told me was that Wiles used to live on land and also like a pig sort of dog kind of animal. That's right. And then they, well, so they started in the ocean, then they came up on a land evolving to these sort of pig dog things. That's not technically right, but something like that. And then they went back into the ocean and just without anything sort of holding them back, they've just grown and grown until they're, so I guess they're gonna just keep getting bigger

as they evolve, amazing. They'll take it eventually the ocean will just be one big blue whale. Yeah, that's a fun fact, surely. And we'll all live inside of it. That's fun. I thought so, but I'm not the first time I run. Since last week I started doing grim facts.

Yeah. I got a couple started doing grim facts. Yeah. I got a couple for you this week. Oh well, I'll decide if I could grim on that. You can judge me yourself. So that's George and Jacob's families and their wagon. At the other family I mentioned was headed by a local businessman, 46 year old James Fraser Reed, who came to the USA from Ireland when he was a child. He had served in the same

company as future president Abraham Lincoln during the Black Hawk War, briefly fought between the USA against the sack Native Americans. So he knew Abraham Lincoln. Wow. Wow. Reed, who was already wealthy, hoped to build an even larger fortitude in California and also hoped the warmer climate on the coast might help improve the health of his 32-year-old wife Margaret W. Reed. Also with them was their three children, Martha, James, Jr. and Thomas, age between eight and five. Also in tow was Mrs. Reed's daughter from her previous marriage. There's lots of marriages going on. Virginia Blackenstone, who was 13, and Mrs. Reed's mother, Sarah Keys, 75,

oldest person on this journey. I'm fascinated that these are three blended families. In a time that I definitely associated with, I mean, I understand they're not like divorced, but they're we dohhood and then remarrying. Me remarrying. But each of these families is really blended and that's really interesting.

I think it comes in waves, doesn't it? That sort of stuff, depending on whoever's leading the moral majority or whatever at the time, it'll change. And it'll often depend on what the king or the queen is up to. We want to get divorced. So divorce is cool for a bit. Then the next one comes in divorce is bad. I you never leave me and then no one.

And then one guy's wearing a hat because he's got a bald spot. So then hats a polite inside. And then, uh, yeah, you're right. I don't know. Something like that. That, you know, you can, it, it was always sort of seen as it, it was different if some, if the espouse had died and you remarried, um, and had more children or whatever. But the fact that you would think that maybe one of these couples, it was a second marriage or a third marriage. But it's like all three, it's second thirds, for each person.

I don't know, I don't know why. I don't know why. That's so interesting. I wonder if that was just common for everyone at that time or because that's what had happened to them and that's why they became friends with each other like they related to each other. Or maybe it was just common back then because of mortality rates and stuff. And I think it's depending on the kind of, you know, I assume in their Christian,

depending on the certain strain of Christianity, you'll have different rules about it, sort of stuff as well. Yeah, pretty interesting. But cool, okay, so there's a shit ton of kids and an old lady. No, lady I don't really go into it too much, but she dies along the way pretty early from a sub-suspected to Berkulosis Okay, she's the Sato highly contagious one. Yes, it is, but no one else seems to succumb to it Yeah, right. Well, this does definitely sound like the pilot episode of the sitcom definitely sound like the pilot episode of the sitcom. From like a, like a 1980s or 70s sort of one. With a cast of 31.

It's not like one of those intro songs, it just keeps going. While they all back to back in. Introducing all the characters. They're all doing a different activity, which is like so that character. the character, then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then you can't even see their faces, the squares are so small. You're like, who's who? So, yeah, some sort of mixed between Brady Bunch and what's that one where the people from the country become rich because they strike oil? Beverly Hillbilly, somehow because they're sort of the traveling nature of the Beverly Hillbilly's blended families from Brady Bunch.

I think you got yourselves a hit on your hand. The dawn of party. The dawn of party. Do do do do. That's how they became the dawn of party. And then readers are there at the end of the dawn. Donna read party, shaking his fist. Played by Tim Allen. This is a hit show. Netflix are interested. If we can somehow go back into it, but I don't know if that will quite work today, but back then. We'll make it work today. We'll make it work.

And we'll be rich. Yes. It's talking black gold. So they formed a group of 31 and their plan was to travel by nine horse and oxen lead wagons all the way to California. Hey, Jess, how stoked are you that the Nana died, rounding it down to an even 30? I hadn't even thought about that. I am actually thrilled about the death of an old woman. That is so good. 30 is a fantastic number.

Yeah, big time. I'm just saying, it's really good. Okay, hey Dave, sorry, you were about a word into that sentence. Please do go on. 30 of them they're playing to travel by nine wagons led by lots of horses and lots of wagons all over the way to California. That's 3.33 person per wagon. Nine wagons? Yeah. Just saying. Depends if we're including Nana or not, doesn't it? I'm not. Are you only counting living humans, Jess?

Yeah. Not nearly dead humans. Over the previous couple of decades, a possible wagon road had developed, making sure to tackle the two main obstacles that parties had to overcome. The great salt Lake Desert in Utah and the Sierra Nevada Mountains in California.

The answer was a somewhat winding journey of 2,000 miles in a single summer and fall by oxen or horses at an average of 15 miles a day. In total, a voyage was expected to take about five months on average. Whoa! How fast 15 miles? It's about 15 miles, isn't it?

Yeah. Well, it's about 1.6 kilometers to a mile. So it's 20 or something. Is it 24? They're making 24Ks a day. A day for five straight months. Well, I mean, 200 per half rest a day. So on some days you have to walk further, actually.

So... Holy shit. A tactic. A raid was very wealthy, and his wagon wagons were very luxurious. His stepdaughter recalled 45 years later. Our wagons, or the raid wagons, as they were called, were all made to order, and I can say without fear of contradiction that nothing like our family wagon

ever started across the plains, it was what might be called a two-story wagon or pioneer palace car attached to a regular immigrant train. Certainly, no family ever started across the plains with more provisions or a better outfit for the journey. What a drag. I know. It's like, oh, I see you had a great head start.

Well, let's assume that you get across easily then. Yeah, let's assume this works out really well for you then. I know. Well, despite that, the question is, would it be enough? I'm a guest, no. The very least we know that this woman survives. That's true. She's talking 45 years later. Yeah, exactly.

What was her name? Was she the one with the list? No, I didn't write down which of his talks that was. It was the stepdaughter. So no. I think of Virginia. Yeah, from a previous marriage. Virginia, Hacken Pack or something like that.

Shatter, great name. Back in Stowe. Back in Stowe. Hacken Pack, yeah. That's what Matt said. Virginia Fanny Pack. Virginia. Hacken Fanny Pack.

Ha ha ha. So the Donners and the Reads took off from Springfield on April the 14th, 1846. And within a month, the Donners and the Reads had reached Independence, Missouri. A hub of sorts, where on May 12th, they stocked up on supplies and joined a train of wagons heading west. The part of the train they joined was captained by Colonel William H. Russell and through

the journey the group just grew and grew so that it's picking up people at towns and cities on the way and everyone's heading in that direction. Now it should be noted that they were one of, if not the last major pioneer train to leave that year. Leaving probably a month later than was ideal. Meaning, they had less time up their sleeve, should something go wrong and delay them on the trip. So just keep that at the back of your mind.

Right. And this is for getting through winter time. That's right. So you're racing to get through to the other side before the winter and the snow and that harsh weather sets in. Right, yep. And everyone else, most other people have left

at least a month earlier than this. That's a big, that's a big amount of time, I'd say, a month. Yeah, it's not a week. It's much more than that. If you're thinking, oh, geez, we're running a bit late today, a few hours late, much more than that. If you're thinking, oh, cheers, we're running a bit late today, a few hours late. Maybe that's okay. But I reckon if you're like, you're waiting out the front, your mates and you're going on a road trip, and your mates are like, no, we'll be out there soon and they're

not out for a month. I would have called it off by then. Yeah. Honestly, I think we'll just, I'm like, how long would you wait? Oh, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe half an hour, maybe? Okay. Otherwise, it's like, all right, fuck either I'm going for myself or you know, if someone else. Yeah, if the mark picked up the horn, that's someone patiently waiting for their mates to go on a road trip. Yeah. The fuck out he. patiently waiting for their mates to go on a road trip. Yeah. The fuck out here. And we could only go within 5K.

So it's got to be a pretty shit road trip. I pranked you, Maribel, 15 minutes ago. Come on. We've got to make good time on this. So but they're honestly, they're looking at the calendar going, oh, we've still got time though. We've got time, you know. Everything's going to go smoothly.

We'll be able to make it still. That's what they're thinking. The group actually made good progress all the way to Fort Laramie in what is now South East and Wyoming, covering roughly 650 miles or just over 1000 kilometers in six weeks, which is about 15 miles a day. So far so good, bang on. Right. What could possibly go wrong from here? It is. Well, enter a man named Lansford Hastings. That's a good name. That is a fantastic name.

Who the usually impartial Britannica describes as quote, an unreliable guide. End quote. So when Britannica whips out that sort of language, you know some shit is about to go down Britannica you Now lanceford Hastings had written a book called the immigrants or the immigrants guide to Oregon and California Probably to make money and also possibly because he had a vision of building an empire in current day Sacramento. So he wrote a guide to bring people over, but also he was salient. So he's making money one way or another.

Yeah, win, win. At this point, he sounds like a savvy business man. Yes. Sacramento goes under B. If it's not already, the capital of California. That's true. Home of the Kings. Yeah, I'm the Kings. Used to be the home of, there's a few teams that have rolled through there. California's been funny because it's a lot of sporting teams just move around like go from LA to San Diego and up again to Sacramento, counting of any exact examples. What did the Raiders move around a bit? They're in Vegas now.

They used to be LA and they were also Oakland. Yeah, had a couple of stints in Oakland, I think. If I had to pick an NFL team, that was going to be the one. Yeah, they were always the best branding, right? It looks cool. They're cool. Yeah. Cool. Big time. But there's a few claims as to who read the book or how the Donner party came across it, but it's certain that someone read it, this book that Hastings had written in the book, or possibly

long letter, who knows how you'd find a book back then. Hastings made... What are books if not long letters? It was hard to ascertain if it was like properly printed or someone was as handy at a pamphlet who knows. Yeah, right. But he made many claims. The most appealing to the Donner Party was an advertised new shortcut across the Great Basin. Oh dear. The Hastings claimed would save the Pine is 350 to 400 miles off the usual route.

And better still, it was on easy terrain, which sounds great, right? Who wouldn't take that shortcut if you knew about it? That's a massive shortcut. Like that shapes off a lot of huge waves. A lot of times. Yeah. And it's better terrain. So you'd rather go that way anyway, even it was the same. Absolutely. The problem, was that Hastings himself had never been to the route that he wrote about. In fact, Hastings is an unreliable guide, I think. Oh, I see. There's already been such a bitch. In fact, that route had never been tested.

At all. Well, no. So in fact, that route doesn't exist in any way. There had been a root around these parts for about 30 hours. No, basically, it's not even like he'd heard someone else talk about it. And was like, Oh, that's great. He just looked at the map and said, that, that work. Look at that. That's quick. I know root when I say one. He sounds like a root rat. Oh, he's an absolute root. According to legends

of America.com, another great source, which I will link, that a great article on this, on the very day that the Illinois Party headed west from Springfield. So when they left for the journey itself, Landsford Hastings prepared to head east from California to see what the shortcut he'd written about was really like. So as they're moving towards the shortcut, he's like, I better go check this thing out that I've written a book about. And he's leaving from California.

Yeah, he's on the other side. Presumably, he's taken the normal route that everyone else at this time in history uses the Oregon Trail. Yeah, not listening to his own advice. No, he'd never been there. Now he's like, oh, I should probably go check out that shortcut. Can I double check and case anyone uses it, you know?

I should go double checking case anybody's put up a sign naming it after me. I was gonna check that out. Well, because I'm a hero and I've saved everyone a heap of time. It was named after him, Jesse, it was called the Hastings Cut-Off. Of course.

Of course. Of course. Now, what is our number one rule when traveling in a group across the wilderness? Never split the party. Never split the party. Hang on. Never ever split the party. Which harks back to our, what, our fifth-ever episode, Birkenwills. Was it that early?

Yeah, it was one of the few that Dave and I recorded before you came on and we re-recorded it with you. So I think it was my second report, so it would have been episode number five. That's what Dave is saying. If I could be so bold as to call the Donner Party, the American Birkenwils. Oh, wow. So that sets the tone of what we should expect. So we're gonna dislike them soon.

Yeah, we're gonna get really mad at them. Yeah. So when you said they were like the Ned Kelly, they were more like the Birkenwils. The Birkenwils, I suppose you'd say, yeah. I was thinking more of Ned Kelly because it's kind of like folklorey. Yeah, I feel feel like Berkwells is a cross as in no a bit of that as well I knew their name growing up without ever knowing that much about him

I always assumed which would have talked about in that episode that they had some sort of success which they You know, you could spin it in a way that they did they were sort of the first to do a thing but They sucked they suck so bad and now I know that they're idiots. were sort of the first to do a thing, but they did not work well. They sucked. They sucked so bad. And now I know that they're idiots. Yeah. So when you see big statues of them, I'm like, Sticky. Especially Burke.

Yeah, Burke. Especially Burke. What a big deal. Right. Okay. So you never split the party something that we came out with all the way back then, because Birkenville's kept doing that and every time you split up the group, obviously, it never went well for them and let me just say no one should ever do it, especially these guys.

Sadly, most of the large wagon train that they were a part of, remember that they're the group of three families, but then they've also joined hundreds of other people who are moving west in the wagon train. Most of the train opted to continue using the well-established Oregon Trail that everyone else is using. But a group of 87 chose to head south for Fort Bridger and then go for Hastings shortcut known as Hastings Cut-Off to save them the up to 400 miles on the journey. Do you know what the number 87 is in cricket? It's an unlucky number, It's the devil's number. Oh, no, why? Because it's 13 runs from getting it century.

Oh, of course. Isn't that funny? Well, I should have recruited one person more and it would have gone well. If Nanna had lived, but she didn't. Oh, Nanna. So they went for this thing. And this is the spot, the fact that at Fort Laramie, a few days beforehand, our wealthy businessman and main player James Reed had run into an old friend from Illinois called James Climon. Again, according to Legends of America, Climon told Reed that he'd just travelled the new route eastward with Langsford Hastings. James Climon advised Reed not to take the Hastings route, stating that the road was barely passable on foot and would be impossible with wagons. and advise Reid not to take the Hastings route, stating that the road was barely possible

on foot and would be impossible with wagons. Also warning him of the great desert and the Sierra Navarroids, the two main things that the Oregon Trail avoids. He said, don't go there, it's not good. Despite this warning from his old friend, to take the normal route and definitely not use the Hastings cut off, Reid ignored him in the hope of getting to their destination faster than the usual route. But he just did it and told you, oh man, bad enough on foot, but you've got all these wagons with you. Yeah, no way. Yeah, man, it's actually a lot harder.

You better off going, sure, a longer way, but you know, you're going to live. Sometimes there's a reason why the way is the way. Right? Yeah. Well, there was some, what was the teen movie that had a line and it like that where they're like the shortcut was proven really difficult. And they're like, that's why it's called a shortcut. If it was easy, it'd be called the way.

Oh, wow. That's not a great line. What stuck with me? Yeah you've got that tattooed on your back. Yeah. I love your trip stamp by the way. I can't forget to tell you every week I think God I love his trip stamp. Thank you. I always forget it's there I never say it but you're looking at it all the time. All the time. And then I was saying Matt can you please put a T-shirt on? And why you got you back to me with my trunk record? I'm too distracted.

I'm going to go home. So are we immigrants or that is a pretty stupid thing to do? Yes, that's really dumb. I mean the fact that you're talking about it now isn't a good sign either. Yeah. And you've sort of forewarned that this is going to go pear-shaped but the fact that you're talking about it now isn't a good sign either. Yeah. And you've sort of full warned that this is going to go pear-shaped, but the fact that so I thought they were just going to be unlucky and read this book and but having someone who's just gone down there and go against that.

Oh, silly. Yeah, I remember how I told you that Hastings was leaving at the same time from them to check out his route. Well, this guy, Climand, was with him when he checked it out. And then he saw his old friend said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't go down there. And then he ignored him anyway. So, in total, there was...

In his mind is like, yeah, you would say that. You don't want me to be a bit start. You're trying to keep it all for yourself. That sweet shortcut. Oh, dear. I bet there's gold along the shortcut. And I bet you just don't want me to find the gold. So now, I'm gonna go and get all the gold.

Yeah. You've always been jealous of me climbing. You're always climbing. Yeah, you're a social climbing. You're prick. I love the price. You've always been jealous of me. I'm going to start using that wall.

It's always said by someone who is clearly misguarded as well. Yeah. When someone's just genuinely trying to be helpful, you've always been jealous of me. You just don't want me to succeed. No, I just don't want you to make it any to yourself, but now I can't do. Go for it.

Yeah, you're right. I'm jealous. Prove me wrong, I guess. So in total, there was 87 people in this breakaway group. Nine men, 15 women and 43 children, all in a column of 23 ox-trawn wagons. That's good. Luckily they've got a lot of these. You know, for something that's going to become physically hard, what you want is majority children.

Who are notoriously very good at high-speed and- 87 people. nine men. Okay, how's he making up the rest? For honestly, for half a second, I thought your countenance is animals? Oh, children. The rest are children. Oh, that's bad.

That is no good at all. It's real bad. Those numbers are right. Maybe it's, I think it actually is less than 87. By this point, more people have dropped off. I've just done the maths that only adds up to 67. So, sorry, everyone. Wow.

Well, that 20, that's 20 lives that was saved by goin'. Actually, we might take the way. Actually, yeah. Actually, we've got 10 kids with us. And I think we might just stick to the tried and true way. We think we might just go down to that ball pit place down the road. Yeah. We'll chuck them in there for a while. There's a poke his neck. They say life chains was then you have kids and you know they're not wrong. So yeah we're gonna head down to the ball pit. There's like a little arcade there and a cafe for

mums and ducks. So we're gonna head down there for a bit. Refuel, try and tuck the kids out so they sleep on the rest of the journey. Yeah, honestly, our pioneering days were behind us. When we only had eight or nine kids, sure. That was a bit of fun, no worries. But you know what they say? 10 kids too many, too many for pioneering. Another phrase. I love that phrase.

I'm going to tattoo it on my lower back. They know what they say. Nine kids is like one. 10 kids, like a hundred. Yeah, really tips it over. So there's between 67 and 87. There's a lot of people and there's a lot of kids. Let's just go with that.

And George Donner. So many kids. Yeah, that's so many kids. You should never be outnumbered by kids. What is it? I can't. If they turn on you, you are fucked. You wouldn't be able to have that adult to child ratio on a school excursion. You wouldn't be

allowed to. No way, absolutely not. They don't say never work with children or animals. They're breaking the two big rules. Yeah. I mean, that is hard for people who work at children farms, but Pioneers, or Pioneers, even. Pioneers. Pioneers, you know, they can stick to that rule. Leave the kids at home. Yeah, put them on the train. I'm pioneering. Put the kids on the train, say you'll meet them

at the other end. I'm assuming there's a fast rail on this route. Yeah, but it's more, you know, it's fun for kids, but that else fun of boring. Yeah, where's the challenge? Yeah, the train is a child size Thomas the tank engine, but it goes very fast. So fast like someone like pushes it really fast from one end. Those wine back wheels, yeah.

And they wind it up until like it locks and so you know that it's got a bit of steam. It does that the whole way. That's why parents hate it. So George Donner was elected as the leader of the group. And that's why it's often referred to as the Donner party. Right. He's much to read, to smoke. Read, put his hand up as well, I'm sure. Apparently he...

Of course he did. I honestly think that he did it, but he was just quite unpopular. Okay. Yeah, he sounds like a pain in not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm, why do I dislike this guy? I'm not sure I've got a weird feeling bad feeling about this idiot. All right. And for the life of me for great wife, I hate it.

I mean, the moron, I know that. Why? Why do I hate it? So they continued on, the group received a letter on horseback from Hastings, who they saw as the cutoff expert, and the letter stated that he would meet them at Fraud Bridger, at Fraud Bridger, and then lead them through the cutoff expert and the letter stated that he would meet them at Fort Bridger at Fort Bridger and then lead them through the cutoff himself. I'm glad it wasn't called fraught because that would be another bad sign. Well, this letter actually helped relax any trepidation the group may have been feeling about the lesser known cutoff because they're like, oh, the guy that wrote the book's going

to meet us there and take us through it. It's going gonna be easy. Yeah, 100% that would put you mind at ease. If you didn't know the fact that he's never been there before. Well, they reached Fort Bridger where they expected to meet Hastings, but when they got there, he was nowhere to be seen. He'd already left with another group and left a note indicating that the Donner Party should try and catch up to them.

Right. Oh, that's interesting. I mean, he sent the letter to that. They didn't say, hey, could you guide us through? And he was like, yeah, all right. But I believe in this. He was like, meet me here. I'll guide you.

And then he just fucked off without. He just left. Oh, there's so much going on here that, and all of it feels a bit off. This is an amazing story I can tell. Well, so they, this heart attack, actually have a little bit of a rest and resupply for what they expected to be a seven-week journey. This is now late July. This is the final seven weeks in their minds.

Yes. Wow, okay. So they've already been going for how long? Since April. Oh, damn. So they've been on the road for a really long time. Yeah, been on the road for three months, hoping that it'll be about two more months and then they'll be there. Bang on, perfect, miss the snow. Yeah.

And they're hoping that they're gonna catch up to Hastings, the expert on the new trial. Mm-hmm. And for the first week or so, the group made good progress and all seemed pretty good making 10 to 12 miles a day. Not that much further than a 15 that, you know, you'd hope to average. But they also don't, do they know when he left?

Like do they know how far ahead he is? Like what if he'd left a week before, you know? You, I don't know this for certain. I would have, I'd hope that he would have put a date on it, but I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But it's pretty good terrain, they're like so far so good.

But soon they found the terrain to be much more difficult than described by Hastings. Oh, you don't say. More like how's described by his old friend? Yeah. Yeah. The one who'd actually done it unlike Hastings. But Hastings wrote directions and left letters stuck to trees to encourage them. Oh, so they know they're on the right path.

And they continued on, yes, so they'd see and I'd go, oh, yep, this is the right way. Yep, we're, we're, hopefully we're gaining on in, we'll catch up to him. But a week later, on August 6, they found a note from Hastings attached to a forked stick, warning the party that the route ahead through the Wasarch Mountains was much more difficult than he had thought,

and that rather than follow the other party that he was leading, the Donner should set up camp, wait for him, and then he'd come back for them and then show them a better way. I'll say he's trying to be helpful, Hastings. Well, okay. It means he's not being super honest.

Oh, he seems like he's trying to be helpful. He's saying that's right. To them, they're like, oh great, we've got the expert. He'll come back, he'll come back. But they had a bit of a dilemma at this point. They could turn back to Fort Bridger and take the established route. Oh, do it. But this would result in losing several days, because they're already a little bit way down the path. a dilemma at this point, they could turn back to Fort Bridger and take the established route. But this would result in losing several days because they're already a little bit way down the path that have to turn around and basically give up that time. Do it, do it, do it, do it, please do it.

It would have just been a pointless detour. Yeah, exactly. And they would have been like, well, that costs us a couple of weeks, but oh well, they decide. And we don't have, we don't have a lot of time up our sleeves to lose. Yeah, I think that's what made them think that they I would have been hard. Yeah. Yeah, they decided instead to wait for Hastings But you also don't know how soon Hastings gonna be back

So it could be the same amount of time that you're waiting there The could have gone back and well you were absolutely bang on just because eight days later. He still had an arrived So they definitely could have gone back. Yep. Fuck. So they sent some riders ahead to meet up with him, because obviously it's a quicker just to ride on horseback than traveling with a big group like he was.

So you could catch up, don't you? And mostly children. Yeah, exactly. Kids, don't move that quick. So they sent some riders ahead to meet up with him and he gave the travelers instructions to follow another trail which they did The problem was it was even worse than the other route So he just had to stab at it. He's a good way to brag Lager. Yeah, he was like oh the route arm was no good

Take another one, and it was even worse They encountered exceedingly difficult canyons where boulders had to be moved Trees had to be cut down and thick foliage, or foliage, as Marjorie say, had to be removed to make way for the wagons. This obviously slowed them down a lot, and their progress crawled to about one and a half miles, or 2.4 km a day, 10% of the speed that they should be traveling. Shit, that's not good. Again, they thought about turning back, but James Reed in particular advocated continuing on to the cut off. That's right, they hadn't even got to the shortcut yet. Oh my God, they're not in the shortcut. They're trying to

get to the shortcut, but trying to get to the shortcut has already massively delayed them. It's cost them a few weeks already and reads like, nanana, I reckon we're already in. We're going to get close. We'll make up for it. Make up for it. Oh no. He must be feeling the pressure because he was the one that said they should go for it. Yeah. So now he's doubling down. He's doubling down.

Yeah. Always chasing. This is one of the old like joke rules. So having a day, a bit of gambling, always chase your losses. That is exactly what the rule is never chase your losses, but we used to say, oh, you're down a bit on the pump. Always chase your losses. Down the way out. I was like, I went home, I would stuck in quicksand.

And he's like, it's easy. I'll just pull my legs out with my hands and pull my hands out with my face. Double down, double down. It'll always get you out of trouble. They took a vote amongst the group and elected to continue on to the shortcut. Some of the wagons had to be abandoned because of the terrible terrain and the group began to show signs of fracturing. They openly began to blame Hastings and soon James Reed. Yep, so accurate. Yes.

You know, you know, sometimes they'll throw blame around. I feel like that happened to be with Birkenwills, where they'd sort of, they'd be blame on certain people and we'd be watching it like, what are you talking about? But in this case, spot on. Yep. The Donner Party finally made it through the Wasatch Mountains arrived at the great Salt Lake on August 30. Hastings route had cost them 18 valuable days. Shit! A note left by Hastings told them that crossing the Salt Lake would take only two days.

left by Hastings told them that crossing the Salt Lake would take only two days. Well, it took five. Because the desert sand was moist and deep and bogged the wagons. Oh no. The Salt Lake was a barren plain, perfectly flat and covered with white salt, and described as one of the most inhospitable places on planet Earth. And they're trekking across it. I've been to my ex-wife's house. What's her house like?

Very cold. Covenant's salt. Covenant's salt. My ex-wife is a horse. She's super salty because of the way we go. She still like totally wants me back though, eh? Get over it, Suzanne. Move on.

Yeah, horse. Just wanted to point out I'm not being derogatory towards my former wife, she is in fact quite literally a horse. Look, I had a bit of fun with that. I love it. I had a full dress. How'd you, so I remember it was hard for you to get it to do her vows at the weddings, but you had to put peanut butter on her gums. Yeah, instead of saying, I do, she kept saying nay.

It was very confusing. Yeah, I'm like, I don't see what's this. Does she object? And you kept saying no, no, no, that's how she says yes. Yeah. And then I came across as quite domineering, which is not my personality at all. We were very much equals in our marriage. Okay. We were. She loved me. Okay. I mean, yeah, who we'd say we only look an in from the outside so Oh, well wedding night went for a role in the hay all it truly

She loves it. She loves to roll in the hay So they're crossing the salt lake. It's supposed to take two days. It takes five The water supply was nearly exhausted on day three. Oh, boy. You need that. You need water. Yep. And on that same day, 32 of the first crazed ox's ranaway, meaning wagons had to be abandoned all together. Whoa.

That's a lot of ox. 32 of them? Yeah. 32 ran away. 32. How did that happen? How does 32 run away. 32. How did that happen? How does 32 run away? They've been talking for a few days and things.

Yeah, they've been chatting or just talking for a while. They've been plotting it. I do want to ask, so Davey said they ran out of water. Did they still have Gatorade though? Oh, yeah. They've got a heaps of it. They've got a bending machine in that pimped up bag and at the front. That mark, oh.

They're a really good one. Yeah, so they're not fully dehydrated just yet. Oh, no, they just run out of Gatorade this far. Oh my god. It puts back in while the sweat takes out. Yeah, I think you can only live for like three days with that Gatorade if I think that's right. Yeah.

And soon they'd have to start drinking either urine or power aid and I know what I'd be. Yeah. You're just with those. Yeah. I was the joke. You're making it. It's great. Yeah. joke. Yeah, that is what I wrote. Yeah. Thought just in case because I knew there would be a tweet coming later where

someone would have said Dave and almost sound like you were saying you're right. So, so these are almost sounded like you think you were making the joke that power a test worse than you are. Okay. So I think these OX, that wouldn't have happened on Twitter, that would have happened on YouTube, that comment, but the OX, you're recommending chatter, they got in each other's ears and they're like, couple more days this and we're fucking off.

Let's make a break. How does 30, how does 30, two of them, and they like sheep, are they just f- The other thing I don't think they are. I reckon they've changed it in the diary, read in the Donald Party. But what actually happened was they were like,

we need to entertain these kids. Let's put on an ox race and they lined up the 32 ox and they started running, but they never came back because then they went, oh, we didn't tell them it was a circuit and I finished on, was back at the start. So the officers kept going. You know what, offside like, they're still running.

They're still going. All these years later, it's actually incredible. 32, oh, that's fucking bonkers. How do 32 of them all take off once? Also, I imagine probably apart from helping them move, they would have been a good backup plan for food perhaps. Oh, absolutely, yes, definitely. Oh, boy.

They finally made it across. They were forced to arrest for several days, wasting more time in a fruitless search for the missing oxen. So they went out looking for them. Oh, and they didn't have any fruit. So that fills a... Yeah, while they come back with no fruit. Fruitless search.

Looking for oxen, I mean, there's a lot going on here. Do they still have some OX left? They still got some left, but they've lost the right. They've got too much. And in the less OX and you have the less wagons you're able to have because they're pulling the wagons. Yeah. It's not a good thing.

It's nearly like doubling, tripling up and you've got to share your space in your fancy wagon. No thanks. No thank you. Feed off the shades lounge if you don't mind. What? Help yourself to the bay of Marie, hoping a fancy person would have.

Yeah, that have a bay of Marie. That sounds fancy, but it isn't, isn't it? That's where the dim sims and stuff are at the... Yeah, the service station. Yep. Oh, cool, a bit of Lardy Dough, bay of Marie. Oh, hello. Hello, seven, eleven. This is a chip shop, Lardy Dough. Oh by Mariah. Oh, hello. Hello, 711. Oh, this chicko'rolls only been here for three days.

Oh, pardon me. My lord. Oh dear. So, in the meantime, they took stock. Only to discover that their food supply was not looking good for the 600 miles. They still had left to go. It got even worse when some men rode ahead and discovered they had another 40 miles or 64 kilometers of desert ahead of them.

That's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah. How they measure that every gal up there, one gal, two gal, three gal, four gal. That's cool. I like how they can do that though. They would have some way of counting that way. Yes, you. Now, they were doing those things where you like you try and step about one major.

So the whole thing is about what I fully just stride again at one at a time. Yeah. Or like measuring your furniture with fit so you sort of hold your hands. Yeah. Okay. And now I'll move to where the furniture will go. And your hands move every time. Every time, but you go, yep, that'll fit. Yeah, because you move it to the exact and go, oh, that's exact. Can't believe it. It's perfect.

That's crazy. You get the- I nailed that. Get the couch in there. It does not fit and so overhang in the door by about 20 centimeters. Can't open the closet door now. I can understand the Donna Party's excuse for not using a tape measure, but what's yours? I'm blind ignorance. Confidence. She likes working with her hands. I lost my tape.

That's the truth. Is that what you wanted me to say? Guilty as a trash. 32 of my tight-matchers ran away. I haven't had the hard to replace them because I still believe they'll come back. So amazingly, they continued on and made it through the desert and rejoined the traditional trail in late September. So that was supposed to be the shortcut, that bit they just walked through. The shortcut had actually taken them a month longer

than the normal trail would have. Oh! As they had to travel an extra 125 miles through unclear mountain terrain and then desert. All the other migrants that had left at the same time but had elected not to take hasty shortcut were already in California by this point. Had been for ages. That living it up.

They've all got the original roles and you know one of them got the role in train coming towards camera. No the big break but for the Donnery party the journey was only just beginning. Oh that must be I mean they wouldn't know any of that I suppose but she's that they must have it in, they must deep down know we probably would already be there if we just did what everyone else did. Yep, they sure, they do the maths on it and go, hang on, this is the, I circle this in the calendar for unpacking and I'm still in a desert. There's a calendar inside the fancy. I'm meant to be meeting the interior designer today at noonon. Oh my goodness.

What will I tell the plumber? We're hosting our first dinner party tonight in our new house. Not even built, because we're not fucking there. Our guests will be there with no host. Yeah, they're going, hello, Mr. Reed. Mr. Reed, hello. Hello. On a vacant block.

It was an ambitious dinner plan to be honest, but it always is when you're having always moving like, what I'll move in about, you know, I'm pack everything that'll take what about 15, 25 minutes. Yeah, six days later, you still unpacking Crocker. Come around for dinner the next week. I'll be well and truly settled. Yeah. Crocker. Fine word.

That just means all plates and bowls. So what? Yeah, what about your dinnerware day? No. When you're unpacking your dinnerware, you're fucking your own way. I'm wearing dinnerware. Wearing my dinnerware, I'm packing crockery. The wrong order, but all right. Every now and then, something a little eastern suburbs comes out in you two talking to each other. I feel like crockery is one of those. I didn't say crockery. They did and you knew exactly what he meant. I'm not entirely sure.

What is Crocory? Is that like, is that? I think it's Bowls and Plates. Don't worry about it. Yeah, that's Crocory, right? Anything that you've got that's made of porcelain, which I assume is a lot. My toilet is Crocory. You kidding?

I've been called that the shit. And why are you unpacking it on a moving day? That should be there. That should already be there. It's not BYO toilets when you move out. Contact your landlord if there's no toilet when you get there. Yeah, it's not good. The shitter should be there.

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by switching to Progressive? Drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average, and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Multitask right now. Quote today at progressive.com. Progressive casualty and trans company and affiliates. National average 12 months savings of $744 by new customer surveyed who saved with progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discount is not available in all safe and situations. Now, remember how initially they had left later than every other migrant by about a month? Yeah.

Now, at on top of that, the extra month they're travelling and they were now dangerously behind time. Oh, no. What they were really racing against, as we've already mentioned, was the snow. They were desperate to not be trapped in the Sierra mountains during the snow-filled winter and they could already see snow falling on the peaks of the mountains. That would have been nice. Yeah, beautiful view. Beautiful, snow.

Beautiful mountains. But also terrifying. Cool, gorgeous. Also terrifying. Yeah. With supplies already low and a huge journey still ahead of them, two of the young men travelling with the party, William McCutchen and Charles Stanton were sent ahead to Sutter's Fort in California to bring back supplies.

So they're off. But tensions were running high in the main group. Everyone blamed Hastings for his bullshit shortcut and many held resentment to read who'd championed them. As they journeyed on along the Humboldt River into Nevada, Tempers began to flare and they're truly boiled over on October 5. There's a number of conflicting reports here, but the crux of it was on October 5th at Iron Point, two wagons became entangled. One of the men, John Schneider, angrily... Schneider.

Great name. So good. Angrily beat one of the oxes owned by Reed. Reed ordered the man to stop and attempted to intervene and then Schneider began to by Reed. Reed ordered the man to stop and attempt it to intervene, and then Schneider began to whip Reed. He's losing his mind by the sounds of it. At this point, Reed's wife Margaret may have intervened and been hit herself. That's sort of where it is.

There's conflicting reports. What is clear is that James Reed pulled out a knife and fatally stabbed John Schneider, the man with the whip. Right. So he just straight up killed him. Yeah, that's a weird scenario. I mean, no one should whip another man's ox first. Of course. And then when...

That's Dave's tram stamp. And then when they turn that whip onto you, it's like going to be like, mate, come on. This is not very nice. I would call this borderline impolite. You are not being very nice right, Dale, saying in between getting a whip. Oh, you're not being polite. A little to the left. So John Schneider has been stabbed by Reed. At the time, US law wasn't applicable in this remote part of the country, so the party was left to administer their own punishment. Some in the group, particularly German immigrant, Louis Kesserberg, advocated that Reid be hanged.

The leader, George Donner, was actually a day ahead of the group at this point. So they took a vote and decided that Reid should be just banished from the group. Right. So basically, that's basically sentencing him to death without committing the murder. Yeah, it's a bit like good luck. If he survive out there, good luck too. Yeah. With his family to be looked after by the others. Remember, he's the wealthy one with the wealthiest carts and everything. Right. His family, you know, he made sure they'd be looked after by the others. James Reed was exiled from the group and forced to ride away and continued the journey on his own.

I did read that he stepped out of a junior road ahead and secretly provided him with a rifle and food. Oh, shit. But, but it's still pretty tough going on your own. Enough bullets to kill everyone in the party. So what this turns into. So he sounds like he copped it on the chin basically. He's like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have murdered one of us. Yeah, he accepted the punishment amazingly. With his supplies very low,

many wagons damaged or abandoned. The animals tired and the grass that they relied on becoming harder to find. From this point on, the groups began to splinter and it very much became an every man or every family for themselves mentality. I kind of forgot you also have to feed the animals. Like a lot. A lot. Yeah. Because you've got a lot of animals and each of them require quite a lot of...

Well, they've got 32 less than they used to have. That's true. So, you know, it's all relative, isn't it? Now that'd be like, oh my god, there's a dream. Lewis Kessaburg, who advocated for James Reigns hanging, was a real prick. Is that from Britannica? Hey, that's Britannica. Britannica being bitchy.

A 70 year old man named Hard Coop traveled with him, and when the animals began to tire, everyone was ordered to walk. So before this, you'd be in the wagon and the oxen, the horses, they'd do everything. They'd pull you along. But now there's so little of those in their tired and weak, everyone has to walk. But hard-coup, the seven-year-old man couldn't keep up and Kessaburg kicked him out and left him behind. The old man asked the others for help, but they all refused to waste supplies on him. Oh my God. And they just, they just left him there. That's far. That's far. How awful is that? That's so awful. He was never seen again. Oh my God.

Meanwhile, old mate, exiled Reed, caught up with the donors who were up ahead and began to share a horse with one of their teamsters, Walter Heron. They're like, oh, what are you up here for? Oh, no, reason's certainly haven't killed anyone in the party. Where's the wife and kids? Yeah, we're still getting on well. I've just said I'll come up ahead and share some food and stuff with you guys. If that's cool with you. Can I hang with you for a bit? Or just had a fight with the family, you know? And the bodyguard girls.

a bit or just had a fight with the family, you know. And the bodyguard girls. Read and Walter Herron wrote ahead and they were able to cover an impressive 25 to 40 miles or 40 to 65 K per day. So they've gone out in front. Yeah, without the old ball and chainway, you can cover a bit more distance, can't you? LAUGHTER The train of wagons continued on, and began the ascent of the Sierra Foothills, low on food, to make things worse.

Native American Pauudi warriors killed or stole several of the remaining oxen and chased away some of their horses. Some estimates show that at this point, the company had nearly lost 100 oxen and cattle. Holy shit. It's crazy that they're travelling with such huge numbers of animals as well as... It's just crazy.

I can't picture that. I reckon the original party would have been able to be seen from space. That would be... Yep. I reckon you're right. So they've lost so many oxen that many of them were forced to abandon their wagons and cache their possessions.

That is, bury them in the hope of retrieving them at a later date. That's so we're gonna happen. Another German man named Wolfinger stopped to cache his wagon. To Wolfinger? Wolfinger. He sounds like he should have been living this party. While I was in Ainsharch, the Wolfinger. He sounds like, Wolf Finger. He should have been living this party.

Well, I was an end-charge. The Wolf Finger party. The Wolf Finger party sounds sick. I would follow Wolf Finger to the end- I would have made it. We wouldn't know about him because he would have just like bad ass his way the whole way across America.

Big term. I love Ricky. He would have ran house kicked like any, you know, like if a some sort of buffalo came up to him to eat one of the others He would just kicked it in the face. Yeah, or like a coyote. What are the what are the what are the because I don't have What are the big oh bears? I don't think what the American Beasts are one back the American one that's

There's been no grizzly better than it. But I reckon yeah, Wolfinger would have just like roundhouse kicked it in the face. Dave, can you just let us know in case we are championing someone who's a bit shit? Can you let us know if he's terrible? We won't have to talk about him for much longer because he went to Cache, his wagon, bury his stuff. Two other men, Ryan Hart and Spitzer stayed behind to help. Uh-oh. They returned to the group without more finger reporting. They'd been attacked by a poody Indians and he'd been killed. Well, never know if they were telling the truth.

There's been lots of speculation over the years that they weren't and that they just killed and robbed them. So yeah, what would be the benefit of that just to take you stuff? That he's cashiering. Surely they could just see where it isn't go back and still at later without killing him. Well, that, yeah, that just means then you've got to carry this stuff. Yeah, they come back and they've just got... They can't carry. Ten loaves of bread on their back.

No, I think they're probably also possibly stolen supplies. Honestly Dave, I reckon that bread would be pretty stale by now. Matt, they're bacon for us. Oh my goodness. Grudges for us. Grudges for us. The wagon's got an oven, mate. They've got dampers.

They're using it by the truck lock. The truck lock. They've got a wagon for everything. Yes, you don't, I don't travel without the bakery wagon. I need my personal. Sorry, everybody. I'll just, if you need me, I'll be in the sauna and cinema wagon. Are the Eddie family had to abandon their wagon and were refused to help from the others

and had to walk and carry their children the rest of the way? There's a real spirit of togetherness on this trip, isn't there? Yeah, really wasn't the dream? It's a funny to travel together but being like, now fuck you, but like still be so close to your own. You're on your own. You're on your own. Now, come on. Let's walk alongside each other for the next eight hours.

In now, what is probably the most tragic part of the story? Margaret Reed had to abandon her luxury wagon. Oh my God. No! For the only three days from retirement. Guys, can we please just have a moment silence for that abandoned life? For the wagon. That's five.

Oh, poor wagon. Poor Margaret. Amazingly, they were able to continue on without the luxury wagon. Mainly because they had no choice at this point. They made it to the gateway of Sierra Nevada on October 16th, almost completely out of supplies. But finally, a bit of good fortune occurred. Charles Stanton, who had ridden ahead to get supplies from California, arrived with seven

mules loaded with beef and flour, as well as two Native American guides, Salvador and Lewis, and news of a clear but difficult path to the Sierra Nevada ahead. The other guy that had gone for help with him, William McCutchen had fallen ill and he remained at Fort Sutter, so that's why two went to get supplies and only one came back. Okay. But that's good news. They've got a bit of food to keep them going and now a couple of guides and also the

trailer head. It's not that bad. Yeah. Okay. Turning it around. Turning it around. Turning it around. Turning it okay. Okay. So if you really said the back end was going to be groomed, but this sounds like yeah, I'm just opening a new bag of snacks ready to go. Yeah. Well,

eat them over the next five minutes or so and then never eat again. But I've just baked this loaf of bread in my bakery wagon. Bakery wagon. According to Ethan Raric or Raric Lovane, author of Desperate Passage about this book, he says quote, to the bedruggled half-starved members of the Donner Party, it must have seemed that the worst of their problems had passed. They had already endured more than many immigrants ever did. End quote. But were they through these problems? I'm starting to think no.

I'm still thinking it sounds really positive. The path ahead is going to be pretty easy and there's some food, some guards. In this case, Jess, you're kind of like the Hastings. You haven't seen the story, you don't know the story, but you got a feeling. Yeah, it should be fine. And I've written another book about it. They've just gone along and read the stories, come back and we're like, no, I think we'll still stick with the Donner party.

Good Lord. I say. Well, they camped 50 miles from the summit and rested for a few days, getting ready for what they hoped was the final part of their arduous journey. This decision to delay would be one of many they would soon regret. It was October 20 and the past usually wouldn't be snowed in until the middle of November, so they assumed they had time. They'd have to be unlucky not to make it. One of the men, William Pike was killed when a gun being loaded by William Foster was discharged negligently, so luck was not on their side. But each family took off one by one, the donners were lost on the trail.

They immediately hit rough terrain and an axle broke on their wagon. And whilst fashioning a replacement, George Donner, the leader of this whole thing, cut his hand. And he's a quote from Wikipedia. While chiseling the wood, so cut his hand, while chiseling the wood, but it seemed like a superficial word. End quote. Seemed, that seems ominous that they put that in there, doesn't it? I'm hearing dangering, a cowman. Uh-oh. Then the snow began to fall.

Must have looked beautiful. Oh, what a look. Oh, majestic, so nice. Right, as you missed, they've stopped and they have some sort of a shallay. Yeah, they must be in a shallay. Surely the children would love to make little snow. No, I ain't just no man.

Oh, they can sit by and open fire and wait till it passes. Maybe hit the snow. Coco, anyone? Dave, this sounds great. I don't know why you're always like, oh, this story's gonna be terrible. This so far, this sounds great. I don't know why you're always like, oh, this story's gonna be terrible. This so far, this sounds like heaven. Well, one of them did find a shell.

The brain family who were leading the charge made it further up the mountain. They got three miles from the summit and made it to a cabin that had been built by previous settlers. Great. Oh, wow. They tried to continue on through the past,

which was just 12 miles away, but found five to ten feet or one and a5 to 3 meter snow drifts that had fallen. And in the end, the families were forced to stop and camp at Truckee Lake, which is ominously now known as Donner Lake. Oh, okay. It's obviously where they, after they got across to California, they would go back to Donner Lake for summer holidays. Yeah, reunion. Are they using the existing cabin and added two more to shelter 59 people? That's a bit cramped. That's pretty cramped. And cabin probably sounds better than they were.

The floors were made of dirt and the roofs leaked when it rained. Okay. I do like how you've said the floors were made of dirt, not just there was dirt on the ground and they built around it. I like the idea that they've gone, what do we we can make the floor out of anything? Let's make it out of dirt. And then they brought in dirt and just patted it down on top of other. Yeah, they lay down, they lay down a wood floor and then they brought in dirt. The floor was carpet. then big, light dirt, so very thick so that you can't get any of that carpet

real. You've got to think about what surface lasts the longest. And nothing lasts, I mean, look around. How long does that dirt been there forever? Do you want a floor that lasts forever? Great, get dirt. Oh, that's a good ad. You're not wrong.

Get dirt. So everyone was there in the 59 except the donors and their hired men who were five miles or eight kilometers below, because they'd fallen behind and then the snow had trapped them basically. There's was a group of 22 at this point, 12 of whom were children.

Okay. 12 out of how many? They had 22. Okay, still a lot majority majority if they still have voting powers Everyone say aye I we still we call for a ball pit We want to bring the ball pit wagon But can't we bring the food wagon? No the food wagon stays ball pit wagon comes Food wagon's boring There's no food in there, just ingredients. Kids are dumb. Sadly, the donners had less shelter from the elements,

building makeshift shelters from tents and quilts. So they didn't actually have the cabins. They built shelters from tents. I mean, the tent is already there, she's the tent. They're like, I don't know what this tent is for, but we cut it up and we turned it and it was sort of shelter. I mean, you get into a tent, you can't see the dirt floor. Rip out the floor, you can see the dirt. Beautiful. Bring in more dirt. We'll be going. They put dirt in on top as well of the tent. That's smart stuff. They all hope that this initial snow early in the season would melt and they'd be able to make it through before the heavy stuff set in. The group made a few more attempts to continue on, but quickly realised that they were actually

snowed in for winter, exactly what they'd hoped to avoid this whole time. That is normal what happens with winter, right? Snow comes in, then it melts, and then the snow comes in. That's what I'm hoping for. I mean, maybe. Because it had come like about four I'm hoping for. I mean, I think they're maybe. Because it had come like about four weeks early and they're like, oh, maybe this is just a little bit of the start. Hopefully, it'll turn to summer again for two days. We'll make it through and then the snow will come back. Optimistic, I've got to say, they had very little food and as

the oxes began to die, not probably not supposed to live in the snow without anything to eat, they stacked the frozen bodies of the oxen ate them. They also ate mice, twigs and bark. It's a very well-rounded diet. So you've got all four meat groups. Food groups looked after their ox, rats, twigs and bark. They had the big four. They tried hunting bed had little success. The cabins were cramped and filthy and it snowed so much that people were unable to go out doors for days at a time. The conditions were simply awful. Oh, this sounds like a bit of a nightmare.

Throughout November, they made repeated attempts to walk to the summit. A large party of about 22 people successfully reached the peak on November 21, but the weather again made them retreat back to the camp. So they're so close, get so far. This really does feel like the American Birkenwills. Surely if you get to the peak, you can just toboggan down. Exactly. Have they packed their skis?

They have skis, Dave. Do they have the ski way? They left that behind in favour of the ball pit very much. No boards weren't invented yet, but skis were, I assume, in toboggins. But it was pretty funny when the kids left let the ball pit go from the top of the mountain. They watched it go down. That was pretty fun, I lose. That'd be sick. Do they have a slinky wagon? Yeah. That would be fun.

Woo! Look at it go! How do they work? You've done a full report on the man who invented this lucky Jess for our Patreon episode. Is that me? That was you. You're kidding. Yeah, I remember he, and he went absolutely mad, joined a cult, and then his wife turned it into a successful multi-million dollar business. Very interesting report. How the fuck do you remember these things?

And I've done that, unfortunately. Oh my God, maybe you did. I think that did. Oh, I also don't really, and now the Dave Settle that I'm like, no, I don't remember that, that well, probably was just. Maybe I did the report. No, I definitely didn't, but I remember the facts of it, and it was fun. People can check that out.

Lots of bonus episodes out there. Incredible. But we don't remember. But hopefully you'll enjoy it. Luckily, we saved them for posterity. Yeah. It's like a museum out there. Meanwhile, James Reed, who had been banished for murdering a man and had rode ahead, he'd made it to Fort Sutter and he met up with the now recovered William McCutchen,

the other guy had gone ahead and gotten sick. And together they realized that they hadn't made it, so they wanted to mount a rescue. They went themselves at first but found the conditions on the other side of the mountain just as hard to get through. They made it about 12 miles or about 20km from the top blocked by snow. Possibly on the same day the brains on the other side attempted to lead one last effort to get over the pass. So they're probably only, you know, a few miles apart. Brutal. Wow. Read and McCutchen realize that they would need help if they were to get through to their friends and families. They tried to rouse some help, but back at the fort, the Mexican war

had taken most of the able-bodied men, and they realized they'd have to wait. Which they actually weren't too concerned about because they were unaware how many cattle the immigrants had lost, and they believed the party would have a heaps of meat to last them through the several months of winter. They were like, oh, they've got heaps of food. They'll be right. They didn't know that they had no food,

except for twigs and bar. Oh, twigs and bar. Toilet and food, yes. Yeah, it reads like, oh, how much twigs and bark is left out there? There must be heaths out there. On December the 15th, Bayless Williams, a driver for the reads, died of melonutrition and the group realized that they'd need to do something if anyone was going to avoid the same fate. Franklin Graves, another man, fashioned 14 pairs of snowshoes out of oxbowes and hide. The next day, five men, nine women and one child departed on snowshoes for the summit

with the ultimate goal of travelling 100 miles to Sutter's Fort. That's a big trip. And what an ominous name. Who made your stuff to survive this really tough thing? Like, all graves. Oh no. The shoes were effective but quite awkward. Their packs light but barely had any supplies and weren't well equipped for camping in the snow at night.

By day six, their food had run out completely and for the next three days no one ate at all. They'd travel on through the gruelling high winds and freezing weather. They also quickly found themselves snow blind. If I don't eat for three hours God I'm a nightmare to bear out. Three days I'd be saying just kill me it's better for all of us. Snow blind mean they can't see snow because that would have made things difficult. I don't see snow.

You stopped being able to recognize what it is. What is this stuff? What is this? I've been, Jess, you've doing the three hours here. I've been doing, I don't know what it's called, but I don't eat until midday each morning. And some days I don't even notice, but other days it's like,

you're just looking at the clock and three minutes of go-bye six hours. Yeah, I'm like, surely I could eat now. You're doing intermittent fasting. I mean, surely that's all fasting, right? You're doing it sometimes. I mean, yeah, you sleep over that. It's everyone fasting.

Intermittedly fast. No, we're all doing it. I mean, yeah, you sleep over that. Yes, everyone's for it. Intermediately fast. No, we're all doing it. I'm sleeping. That a boy. I've got a plate of haggis on my bedside table. Of all things, it couldn't have been a tub of ice cream or something, a plate of haggis. Yuck.

Hey, I know what I like when I sleep. I asked men to be quite nice. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it when we were over the last few years. I've had veggie haggis, which is pretty good, probably not all that similar to the real thing, but. How could, when like 95% of it is meat, how could it taste anything like?

I don't know, I took their word for it. They said it's a pretty good likeness. May, may be this. Who body knows? I apologize, I'm sure you enjoyed it. Yeah, but I'll never know. Well, you can tell me. Oh, that's right, I can eat, bro. Next summer over there, apologize, I'm sure you enjoyed it. Yeah, but I'll never know. Well, you can tell me. Oh, that's right, I can eat bread.

Next summer over there, forever, I'll add to leave Australia again. Oh, imagine. I reckon it'll happen. I reckon like in the next few weeks, we'll probably be able to go over to the UK. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, we'll just pop over for a long weekend. Okay, so there's snow blind now.

Yes, and then one of the group, Charles Stanton was exhausted and told the others to go on with Adam and he'd catch up with him later. He's not going to catch up. He was never seen alive again. No. They got caught in a blizzard and with no food whatsoever began to talk of the unthinkable cannibalism, which is honestly, if you know the two-centred summary of the story, that is definitely part of it, cannabis. Yeah.

Yeah. Patrick Dolan proposed one of them should volunteer to die in order to feed the others. Boah. You'd be like, all right, are you volunteering, mate? Yeah. You know, that thing you do where you're trying to get your friend to volunteer to do something,

and you like, make them put their hand up, just to be here. Oh, yeah. Do you have any? put their hand up. Just to be good. Oh yeah. I mean, David do it. No. No. No.

No. Me, he's putting my hand up for me. I don't want to do it. No, I don't want to do it. I don't want to be part of this magic trip. Is that what you think of cannibalism as? Let's cut this body in half, then eat it. Oh, you put me back together, right?

Yeah, in a way. Some suggested a jewel. Are you fucking kidding? The loser would be eaten. While another account described an attempt to create a lottery to choose a member to sacrifice. But they never had to follow through with any of that because people just began to die naturally. Problem solved.

Thank God. Antonio, the animal handler was the first to die, and he was soon joined by Patrick Dolan, the man who just said we should kill someone. Good. Franklin Graves, the shoe maker, sorry Matt, and Lemwell Murphy. Lemwell. That's not a name you hear anymore, but I reckon it's going to come back in fashion.

Let's bring it back. Beautiful stuff. Little baby Lemwell. Lemmy. Born, seven pounds, 50 centimeters long. Mum and Bub doing well. Lemwell. Lemwell Perkins, you reckon? No, absolutely. Lemmy, I like Lemmy. I'm not a, Rickon? No, absolutely. Lemmy, I like Lemmy. I'm not a psychopath. Oh, Lemmy's cute.

Okay, I'm back around. Lemwell Perkins. So these four men died and the rest of the group ate parts of their bodies and dried and stored the meat for the coming days. Another quote from Wiki, quote, taking care to ensure nobody would have to eat his or her relatives.

That's nice, isn't it? Yeah. I think they sort of did it. It was fairly similar in the plane crash in the Andes. I think they were, yeah. But I didn't read too much about the cannibals of them because it made me queasy. Yeah, I'm not going to go into too much detail.

There is a bit out there if you want to read through the sources I've linked, but it's just a bit yuck. So they continue not living off the bodies, but the two Native American guides, Selvador and Lewis who are with them, refused to eat human flesh. Some of the group began to discuss killing and eating the guides. The ones who said, no, we don't want to eat human, thank you, then they went, well, let's eat them. Really? Yes. They were warned. So they ran away. They ran away.

How does that help anyone? They're not taking their food source. So why not just have them around or they were warned? Someone went just by the way, the others are. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the talking about killing you and eating you. And when you said their guides, so they knew their way around. Have you been mentioning the gods during the story? Are they got brought back with the guy that brought back seven mules later on with food?

That was, yeah, that was when we're having some better good news. That was the one, the one bit of good news was that they had food, they had guides, and they were told the part the head was clear. Because at that time, there was no snow. Now, there's no snow. Why would you want to keep the gods happy? No, because I mean the point of surviving through this sure, but then getting out of here alive, we don't want to get greedy. Well, remember that they at this time they had that manifest

destiny at the back of their minds and they're thinking us Europeans. And that's you reckon they still believe that as everyone's dropping dead around them, this is what God wanted. This is all for us. This is our destiny. This is our destiny. Now it starts to feel like God's saying, how you fucking idiots? This isn't yours.

Go away. Stop that. Stop that. Get out of it. Get out of it. Oi. Oi. Oi.

Oi. Oi. Oi. Oi. Oi. Oi. Oi. like a little yappy dog. Stop it. Take it nicely. That's what we say to him when we're giving him like a little dental treat. Take it nicely. Take it nicely. I don't know how we've told him but he knows, all right, I've got to take it out of your hand. I can't snatch it. You won't give it to me.

It's very cute. It's very cute. A lot of people say gentle. You've gone take it nicely. Take it nicely. That's right. We use, please sit on my lap. Use your words, I'm free.

Use your words. You're a dog. Your dog is a fancy dog. Oh, yes, I've got it. Rory days. He's a posh dog. I didn't want to say this next bit, It's a fancy dog. It's a fancy dog. Rory days. He's a posh dog. I didn't want to say this, but I got to tell you the bad news.

The guides ran away, but they were later discovered starving because they hadn't eaten anything. And William Foster, one of the other men, shot the pair and the group ate their bodies. He's the one that killed someone before when he's gone when I've accidentally, so his body can is hard. He's gone when I've accidentally so his body can is hard. He's gone, what a pre-op accidently quite a bit by the sense of it. But what Matt was saying before is like, why would you kill the guides who are the ones who can help you if you do get through the bad weather? I think he wrote them off as a lost cause because they were refusing to eat the human flesh. There's nothing else. These guys are going to starve and die anyway.

Yeah. a lost cause because they were refusing to eat the human flesh. There's nothing else. These guys are going to starve and die anyway. Yeah. Some could argue, put them out of their misery, but I still think that it's a murder and history.com rights of the murders. Quote, it was the only time during the entire winter that people were murdered for use as food. Mm.

Okay, thanks for that history.com. I love that that implies that every other year around this period that people are, what a brutal time to be alive. Yeah. So of the group that had set out on January 19, 1847, seven made it to the safety of a town on the other side of the mountain. It had taken them 33 days,

William Eddie and William Foster, were the only men that survived, but all five women that had gone on the trek had lived. Girl power. Girl power. So they made it. A lot of them died and starved and were killed along the way, but they actually made it out. Sorry, you did say how many had had set off? I believe 12-ish. Yeah, okay, and seven made it. Oh, sorry, 15 went including a child who actually had to go back because it was such a perilous journey.

Because it was a child. So our 14, seven made it. 50, 50. Okay, 50%. Not bad, I mean, that's a part of the race. Please get to the race. Yeah. The good news is that they survived,

and the survivors quickly alerted people to the fact that there were still many people trapped on the other side of the mountain, and residents rallied to form rescue parties. Wow. And now you're like, yay, now they'll all be saved. Sadly, it wasn't that easy. The weather was still terrible, it's still the middle of winter.

The rescuers weren't able to take pack animals out. So only small amounts of supplies could be carried. But could they not just get a helicopter? Oh, I didn't thought of that. Sadly, the budget wasn't there. Get a few choppers up there. Are you kidding me? They're already being used by news teams reporting on them.

We can see them down there below. Yeah, they're trapped here for sure. But efforts are being made to come and get them. We'll keep you updated. Stay tuned for the 7 PM Borton. Well, we can see around them are numerous flat places where hypothetically a helicopter could land. So hopefully they use that space for some sort of a no sporting event to keep themselves

warm anyway. They've obviously cleared an oval for a game of soccer, which the more. We hate to disturb. So instead they're just lowering a microphone to enter. Well, lowering a ladder down with a microphone and attach them just at a reach. Speaking of this, how you doing down there, you going all right? So the first relief party left on February 5th, and the second led by Outcast James Reed left just two days later. So his family is still trapped on the other side,

so he's pretty desperate to rescue him. Yeah. So quote again, from Legends of America. Quote on February 19th, the first party reached the lake, finding what appeared to be a deserted camp until the ghostly figure of a woman appeared. Twelve of the immigrants were dead, and of the 48 remaining, many had gone crazy or barely clinging to life." So it wasn't a beautiful, it wasn't a very nice... Was that an actual ghost?

Yes. That's why they didn't send helicopters out because all the pilots were spooked. Wow, there hasn't been a war in the same rally. It's powerful. 15 years. So the rescue party made it, but they couldn't take everyone a one go and not everyone was able to travel at all because a lot of people had been starving for months now. So even a journey with assistance was difficult.

The rescuers took 23 back with them and left suppliers with the others and they could cling on long enough for more rescuers to get to them. Sadly, more of the survivors died on the trek to safety. On the way back down the mountain, the first party ran into the second party led by James Reed and Reed was finally reunited with his family. And they'd all made it. Oh, no.

His whole family survived. No. Amazing. But he had so many kids. And he was the one who was responsible for all this death. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I suppose maybe he was feeling a bit of guilt because he was reunited with his family. They went back to safety and then he kept going to try and rescue the others. So he wasn't like, I got my family out of the gun. Yeah, sucked in. Oh, that's good. It was a slight redemption story there.

The second relief party led by Rita arrived on March 1st and found evidence of further cannibalism. It was the same story when they made it a few miles down the mountain to the Donna camp. Remember that they'd been separated this whole time? They'd also had to eat people after they died. Read Leta Group of 17 survivors out of the camp, but they got caught in another blizzard

and had to set up another camp, referred to as the Stavd camp. That doesn't sound good. So now there were pockets of survivors at three different locations. You got Stavd camp, the late camp where the majority of people had and the Donna camp further down. More cannibalism later, the staffed camp was visited by the third relief party led by William Eddie and William Foster, who were the only two surviving men from the Snow shoe party earlier.

Remember, he's one of the guys that shot the Native American guides and ate them. Yeah. But they came back. So I guess, you know, they are caring about each other in some ways, you could argue. The third party made it to the Donna camp and found that George Donner, the once leader of the group,

was dying from an infection in his hand, having cut it months earlier while fixing his wagon. Oh, yeah. Remember, Wiki wrote, it seemed like a superficial wound? Well, it wasn't. George's wife, Tamsen refused to leave him and handed their children to rescuers. George and Tamsen didn't make it out.

So he was dying. She said, I can't leave him and was late found dead with him. Well, actually, she wasn't found dead with him because the last to be rescued was Lewis Kessiburg, the man who I mentioned had advocated that Reed be hanged all those months earlier. He was found in April 1847, supposedly half mad and surrounded by the cannibalized bodies of his former companions. According to history.com, Kessaburg was later accused of having murdered the other immigrants for uses food, but these charges were never proven.

Tam's and Donna had apparently joined Kessaburg and his cabin after George had died from his wound. And according here, Kessaburg said he put a blanket around her and told her that they'd start out in the morning, but she died during the night. The salvage party was suspicious of Kessabeg's story and found a pot full of human flesh in the cabin, along with George Johnless Pistols, Kool-Ree and about $250 in gold. So a lot of people are like, I don't trust this guy. Either way, he arrived at Sutter's Fort on April 29, 1847, and he spent the rest of his life being treated

as a villain for the story. People looked at him as a murderer. Right. And what about Reed, at East Petherace of his life? Well, I'll tell you about what happened to the rest of the group, but all up it took two months and four relief parties to rescue the survivors and all up it was one year and two weeks since the donors and reads had set out on their journey and the last surviving member made it to California. So over a year. For this trip that was supposed to be about five months. Five months. If they had taken the normal journey like everyone else, it would have taken five months. Oh my God. Of the approximate 87 people who entered the Wasatch Mountains, 48 had survived. Two thirds of the men in the party parish whilst two-thirds of the women and children lived. Amazingly, as I said before,

the Reed family and also the Breene families remained intact, but the rest all lost members. I read this on Wikipedia and nowhere else, but this story needs a bit of light, so I'm going to say it's true, but hopefully, the Euredes settled in San Jose and two of the Donna children who were orphaned lived with them. Read fed well in the California Gold Rush and became quite prosperous. So, he did well, Matt, despite obviously being a big part of there. So much blood on his hands, just for being picaded.

The city of Mary'sville in California is named after survivor Mary Murphy and several streets in San Jose are named after members of the Reed family. One of the other survivors Mary Graves wrote in the letter to her relative in 1847 after having just made it back. She said, quote, I will now give you some good and friendly advice. Stay at home. You are in a good place where if sick, you are not in danger of starving to death and quote I think that is good advice. That is great advice. Stay at home because I won't starve to death here because there's food. She had a bit of an obsession with starving.

There's another line from Wiki which it distorts out to me because it's so bizarre. It says quote Mary Graves married, but her first husband was murdered. She cooked his killer's food whilst he was in prison to ensure the condemned man did not starve before he's hanging. Right, she wanted him to survive to be... Survived to get his husband. And interestingly.

Yeah, it seems like you're just prolonging the inevitable on you. She cooked his food like, doesn't trust the chef, the jail chef. Just poison the food. No, it's got to die in a specific way. That's right. According to the law, as for Lance for Hastings who encouraged the fake short gut wrote the book, these days, he'd expect him to face multiple manslaughter charges, right? He was never punished and went on to be a major in the US Civil War fighting for the losing South. After the war, a bunch of these losing racists attempt to establish colonies in Brazil, Hastings was one of these people and

died of yellow fever while taking a shitload of settlers to his settlement. So he was still leading people on fantastical journeys, but never faced punishment or ridicule or any backlash as far as I read. Far out. At least suing him for his book, you know, or his long letter. He would have weaseled his way out of it some of our American claim bankruptcy. Yeah. Started a Phoenix book publishing company, the classic Hastings. What a tale. The story of the Donner Party rapidly spread across

the United States and quickly became a very famous story where it remains to this day in American folklore. It may have put off some people making the journey to California over the next couple of years. Some places I read that it was slightly less people making the trip, but like I said at the start of the report, as soon as gold was found, all bets were off and California burned.

And people just traveled on the roads there. Yeah, they didn't take the shortcut ever again. The harrowing conditions and cannibalism has made the journey a source of fascination ever since. And the Donner Party has been the basis of fiction, drama, poetry, and film. The state of California created the Donner Party has been the basis of fiction, drama, poetry and film. The State of California created the Donner Memorial State Park in 1927, and today it has 200,000 visitors a year, so let's add that to the list of places we have to one day visit.

That sounds good to me. Yeah, wow. But all in all, that is the harrowing tale, the often requested tale of the Donner Party. Palaipus. A lot of porn. Crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. Wow. Yeah, insane.

So much, yeah, like I said, I knew the cannibalism bit, and I knew they were on a very long trek, but I didn't know a lot of that and that is an insane story. Crazy stuff. It's just so many bad decisions and up in so much death. But then the people who survived, I mean, to have got through all of that and held on, it was a pretty amazing effort as well.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Woo! So yeah, thanks to everyone that suggested that topic over the years, we finally got to it for blocktober. I reckon that those are pretty block, block appropriate story. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like Matt said, with the OJ story last week,

there were other things I could have gone into because there's a whole year of a journey to go into, but I hope that I covered most of it. Yeah. And you didn't go too heavy on the cannibalism, which I, no, there's only a small stuff out there online. If you want to search it out, I did a bit of reading and went,

I don't think we need to talk about that. In detail, I was always going to mention it because it's so famous. Everyone would be like, I can't believe you didn't mention the most famous part. Yeah. And I was, imagine if I was like, and they're left on April and they made it a few months later

and had a good time in California. So yeah, thanks for listening. Like and subscribe. Wow, great story there Dave, had a bit of everything, apart from all that much field good stuff, but it did have a bit of everything in terms of grim facts. Yeah, well that's very grim. Well done. Thank you. I'm giving you a gold grim star for that report, and that's the highest grim star you can get.

So that brings us up to the point of the show we would like to thank a few patron supporters in different ways. I also just quickly looked up, I find this so fast now, I've talked about briefly before about American sporting teams that move around a bit. There's only been one from San,

well, we were talking about Sacramento, the Kings, this is the only big pro team, but they relocated from Kansas City in 1985. And before that, they were known as the Rochester Royals, the Cincinnati Royals, the Kansas City Omaha Kings, the Kansas City Kings, and so they moved cities one, two, three, four times. That's amazing. That's amazing. Wow. That happens all the time.

It's like the Lakers. You're like, there's no lakes in Los Angeles, but that was because the Lakers were initially from Minnesota or something like that. Yeah, Minnesota, but they kept the name. So strange. It's a weird sporting world over there. It's just because they're usually,

I think they're usually privately owned. So the owner can just be like, I wanna move them over here. Cause I've got a better deal on a stadium or something. Oh yeah, okay. And then yeah, I think the league has to tick it off, but it sounds like it often can happen. Anyhow, I just, I knew

there would be someone going, tell me more about Sacramento sport. And we have to do something. I was certainly feeling it. So thank you for scratching that ear. There are, there's some like lower leg baseball times stuff as well, but I don't need to go into those. What we want to talk about now is some fact quotes and some questions, which has a segment which has a little jingle, I believe. Fact quote or question. Members, the ding.

And how to get involved in this is if you go onto our Patreon or Patreon.com session do go on pod and you support us on the, I want to say Sydney Shamburg Deluxe Memorial, Rest in Peace edition level? Oh yeah, this is the... Correct. This is a big tier, baby. You get a lot of stuff for this. You get the bonus episodes, which you also get at a lower tier.

So, if you want to support us on that, that'll all speak great. You get the shout outs. You get access to the Facebook group. When we do tours, hopefully that'll be coming up again soon. One day, you get access to pre-sale tickets. And basically, you just get to know in the comfort of your heart. Comfort of your heart?

Yeah, comfort of your heart. I hope your heart is comfortable. You're supporting the show and we truly appreciate it. Big time. So our first stop, we've got Tessa Chilcot, who's given herself the title, you have to give yourself a title on this level as well. She's given herself the title of current queen and usurper, or usurper, of dragons.

Damn, that's tough. That's a sweet title. Yeah. And Tessa's got a question for us. The next, they're all the rest of facts today, but this is our only question. Tessa's question is, I feel like we've had this one before. How fun. How much wood does a wood chuck chuck?

If a wood chuck could chuck wood. Really, I want to know, desperately, it's important. I'm looking at hiring someone. Is it a certain amount per hour per day? How do they make a living? Also, thanks to the laughs. Thank you, Tassessa, great question. I mean, we are not wood chucks. So as for how they make a living and stuff like that,

I don't feel qualified to answer. But to answer the main part of the question, which is how much wood would a wood chuck chuck, a wood chuck could chuck wood? The answer was 42. Oh, thank goodness. I forgot because we did obviously look at it last time. And we've got to be consistent. I'm sure it was the exact answer we gave last time. Probably. It's a go-to number. Dave and Jess, if I could take the mic for a second, according to Miriam Webster, the definition of a wood chuck, is a grizzled with thick-set Marmot, chiefly of Alaska, Canada, and the North Eastern US, also called Groundhog. I love it even more now that I know it's a grizzled, thick-set Marmot.

You are the animal. I love thick animals. And if they're grizzled even better. So good. Well, I want fantastic news that is. It's eroded. And a great question. Great question. They're cool looking animals. They're another animal that is sort of just one bit,

no real neck. It's just head into body. Love it. Love a sick animal. So thanks for bringing them to our attention. We might have mentioned this last time. They're also known as a chuck, a wood shock, a ground pig, a whistle pig, a whistleor,

a thick wood badger, Canada, Marmot, Monax, a moonak, a weenask, a red monk, and a cypalu. You're making them up now. Cifalu. Isn't that amazing? There's so many names. Was one of them a weeners? A weeners. A weener?

Weeners. I think maybe my favorite is between thick wood badger and whistle pig. Yeah, I like whistle pig. Oh, great. That's so good. Thanks, Tessa, for taking us back to the wood chuck, fast climbing my list of favorite animals. It's one I often forget about, but thank you so much for bringing it back to the front of my mind.

And thank you so much for bringing it back to the front of my mind. And thank you so much for your support. The next one comes from Paul Meller, who's one of our great supporters as all these people are. And Paul has given himself the title, official do-go-on keeper of the faith for underdog sports teams. Oh, it is a very important role. And here is Paul's fact. I think Paul has, he definitely keeps his eye on the Saints, he'll message me when we're about a win or something.

And I appreciate that. I think he's doing it from over in England perhaps. For that no dogs are more under than the Saints. The time of recording, they're about to play their first final in nine years. By the time this comes out, you'll either know if I'm happy or sad about it. If they lose, is it, is it, um, they get a second chance? Well, I'll tell you what this game is called and you can see if you can figure it out from that. It's called an elimination final. Okay, so they lose, they'll be back next week.

It's a week. Yeah, unfortunately, no, this is, it's due or die. Um, so the season could be over by the time this episode comes out. We're actually, we are the underdogs in this game. Two, your team gave the dogs. Starting favorites. You're underdog wedges dogs. You're a dog. You dog. Sorry, Paul Mellers fact is a fact about my all-time favorite passenger aircraft. Concorde. Oh, Concorde, I make a great bonus episode someday, Ricken. Concorde. Concorde to make a great bonus episode someday, Ricken. Concorde. He says, which I'll sadly never travel on. Did you know that during supersonic

flight, the fuselage stretched between six and ten inches due to heat generated by air friction? Wow. Bob, can I get a ruling on that? Yeah, fun. And playing stretches. That's wild by that much. Yeah, that's a lot. It seems like a quite a big, I mean, geez, talk about a bit of friction and you stretch an extra six to 10 inches, if I'm right.

Um, can you, I think that if you say about, I think it's probably for the ultra wealthy only. So, but I think you can, every now and then, they possibly, I don't know if they actually have ever raised the funds, but people try and raise like a million bucks, they can bring it back for one flood. I don't know if you can move that.

What a good use of money. It's probably millions here, because people are, you know, if the plain with this is a desperate to have a crack. Yeah, right, of course. Paul goes on, says, so this stretching of the fuselage, this caused external temperatures of up to 127 degrees Celsius at cruising speed of Mark 2.04 or 1,350 miles per hour.

Concorde was painted in a special white paint to accommodate the stretching and dissipate the heat. The Concorde in the Museum of Manchester Airport has the last captain's cap stuck tight in between the control panels as he put it there on the last flight before the aircraft shrank back to its normal length. Oh, that's fun. Oh, and I got stuck. Yeah. So basically when it went fast, the gaps appeared. He chucked his hat in and it shrunk back down. So his hat stuck in there. That's fun. That's fun. Yeah, that's amazing. That's fun. That's a great fact. Cool. Cool. It's a great fact. I'm thinking now that there's probably no need to do a mini episode. I

have a funny feeling. That's the most interesting thing about it, but still. Yep. No, they had a pretty cool inner checkered history. Yeah, all right. Dave, I request you do a bonus episode about that one day. All right, I'll do it. Take that in your hat and smoke it. The next one, thank you Paul. The next one comes from Battle, Uttlu.

Battle, Uttlu. It Battle, Uttlu. It's battle. Thanks, Battle. Battle sounds like pedal. So I think I'm getting that right. The problem with when people say my name's like this, because it sounds like this other word, but unfortunately I miss pronounced a lot of different words.

So if I don't say pedal like you, it's I'm possibly still saying it wrong, but anyway, Battle, Uttlu has a fact. oh, sorry, but Betal's title is Egg Hater. Yes, yes, yes, somebody. That is one of the shortest titles we've ever had, I reckon. And I am with you. Egg Hater. Our battle has given a fact.

It is BTS, the first group since the Beatles, to have three Billboard number one albums within a year. BTS, who's BTS? For the K-pop South Korea. Ah cool. Wow, three Billboard number one albums within a year. Year, yeah. That is hectic. So BTS, that's interesting. So they're obviously a huge band. Yes. So much so that you two have heard of them. Would I know any of their songs? I don't. Okay. But no, the recent thing that had one of this come out in English that I'll listen to.

The group's name BTS stands for the Korean expression Bangtan Sonyeon-dan, literally meaning bulletproof boy scouts. Oh, that's fun. That's cool. But is that, is it true that that's a background in where you make more than a name and then apply something later? Maybe, possibly is. Still, it's a great background in. A great background in. A background in. I love that. So yeah, that's a great fact. Thank you so much.

That's a great fact. Thank you so much, Betel, for that one, sweet fact. And finally, this week, the last fact-quaddle question comes from Jacob Lane, whose title is Simpson's Guy, or whatever I said last time. And Jacob... He's got a bit of work to do this week.

We did quite a few Simpson's references. It's stuck in a bit. So if you don't know, Jacob is on the Patreon Facebook group and he does a, what do you call it? He sort of goes through and. He catalogs. He catalogs and orders. That's the Simpson's references.

Orders. He used to be called the Simpson's reference auditor. But now he's just called himself the Simpson's guy or whatever. It's snappy. It is much snappier. And much like his fact, a very snappy little fact here from Jacob, it is. That man is my favorite superhero, I think. Great fact, thank you, Jacob. That's great.

That's great. Mine's the Phantom. Yeah, we know you like stupid Phantom. What's your favorite superhero? Mine's the Scientist. That man is a scientist. Fantastic. Yeah, Batman is a greatist. That man is a scientist. Fantastic.

Yeah, Batman is a great superhero. I'm up there with that. He's Batman as scientist. That's another Simpson's reference. Oh. So now we get to thank a few other. I was like, I don't think he's nervous. We get to thank a few of our other patrons

who've been on the shout out level for a while. If you're on their shout out level or above, I always forget which one it's called, but you'll see it if you go to the Patreon.com session to go on pod, which one's which? And Justin becomes up with a little game to play. Will give everyone a title or something or something? Yeah, I think this time we should assign them

a particular wagon that they're looking at, whether it's the ball pit wagon or the wagon. That is so good. All right, well, if you don't mind, I might kick this off. Please. Firstly, from Surrey Hills, a suburb here in Melbourne, Victoria, Sam Cross.

Sam Cross. Sam Cross is in charge of the dinnerware wagon. Oh, yeah. So cutlery, knives, forks, etc. And clothes. And yeah, suits and ballgains. Hang on, why? I'm confused now, which one's the right one?

Cutlery. Cutlery, right. Yeah, because they've got it wrong when we did a live show and sitting here a few years ago. Didn't it wear plates and balls and chips? I'm gonna be honest with you there, I got it wrong again there. I thought I was doing the joke one

when I accidentally said the right one. I thought I was doing the joke one when I accidentally said the right one. I thought I was like, yeah, it's sooth and stuff. So I'll say the calorie. Oh, sorry, that everyone. Classy. Sam Cross. So, you know, start getting that crockery ready. And crockery is involved there too, right?

Crockery and calorie. Yeah. Oh, you brought it all together beautifully. Sam Cross, that's a very important role. But I mean, that would be nothing without food. So hopefully, if someone else is in charge of some sort of a food wagon, I'd also love to thank from Rosebud Beautiful Beachside City down on the peninsula in Victoria, Ashling Marone. Moroni, Moroni, Eric and Ashling is in charge of the bonfire wagon.

Oh, okay. Oh, yes. So, you can go. Awesome accelerants. You can hop in, you can go into the bonfire wagon for a bit chilly and sit around the fire and toast the marshmallows and just chill out but warm up. You can chill out while you warm up. That's a slogan. Yes, they all need a slogan on this idea. Great idea. All right, well thank you so much

to you for your support. Let me just get back to the page. See, we've got next. So thank you Sam, thank you Ashley. And I finally had enough to thank page. See, they were all going next. So thank you, Sam. Thank you, Ashley. And I'd finally love to thank this. I was on a different page because I was trying to figure out how this city is pronounced, but I could not find it. I'm going to say Fluegeville in Texas.

Whoa. I'd love to thank Eric Moody. Oh, Eric Moody. With a name like Moody, I kind of feel like maybe he's in charge of the therapy. Oh, yes. Oh, I love it. So there's like a- We are of course traveling with trained and qualified psychologists, psychiatrists. So yeah, we've got everything covered there if you need to have a chat.

So I have that little chair you can lie down on, look up up. Of course. I love it. You don't have an app in there if you need to have a chat. So I have that little chair you can lie down on, look up, up. Of course. I love that. You don't have an app in there if you like. Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, they're not gonna be using it all the time, so yeah. That's great. That's great work there for you, Eric Moody.

I appreciate your support, of course. So thank you Sam Cross, Sashling, Marone, and Eric Moody. They're one of you two, I'd like to thank a few. Well, I love it, Cracky. If you don't mind, I'd like to thank from St. Helens in the UK, OPP, Oliver Petter, Plats. Yeah, you know me. OPP.

He's on our, on the Facebook group, obviously. And I said, I'll link to the song. I said, guessing you get this a lot, and he said, more than you'll ever know. Well, let's steer away from that and say that he's in charge of the Austin Powers memorabilia wagon. Oh! Oh, babe.

Oh, babe. Yeah, baby. Yeah. Who knows when you're on your two and a half thousand mile journey when you might need a fat bastard costume? Yeah, yeah, you'd hate to leave the house without it, you know Maybe one of those things where you halfway through your journey and you're like fuck I need my Phone keys wallet fat bastard costume. Yeah, I hate that feeling of I've forgotten something, you know

That's great. Oh, I hate that feeling of I've forgotten something, you know. That's great. OPP, hopefully you enjoy looking after that for us. I would also like to thank now from an unknown location. Can I only imagine Donna Lake? And that is Katie Dolan. Katie Dolan, or Katie, of course, is in charge of the fine dining wagon.

Oh, beautiful. Obviously she needs help from Sam Cross to put out the crockery and the cutlery, but she provides the finest ingredients and the finest foods. What are we having tonight? Beef, stroganoff. Oh, wow.

Yeah. So. Okay, Matt, what are you and I having tonight? Just the strong enough. Just the strong enough. Okay, all right. Bean's strong enough. Ooh, now you're talking.

I love it. All of a Clark, you still always just work beef's strong enough into his routines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got all of the song. So funny. Beef, beef, beef, beef. Strong, strong, beef, beef. Strong, strong, strong, strong.

That's right. That's right. You don't know all of a clock. Fantastic musical comedian. Looking up on you, she's some great stuff. I would also like to finally thank from, my goodness, where's this from? Denmark?

Yeah. I think so, yeah. From, and the city is Ahus. Ahus, maybe? I would like to thank, and I've nailed none of that, and I'm also not gonna nail Casper and Kasia. Yeah, definitely wrong, but I don't know how else you could possibly. I know, like you say.

Say it, I'm so sorry, Casper. It's the A, the A letter where they're combining one. Yeah. That'd be a rule for that. What would the sound be? But I, but how do you make a KJ sound? That's also a bad. DK is correct though for Denmark. And I told you this before that we had a Danish extension in our school and his

nickname was Denmark. Classic. Not funny. Yeah. It's like Chris, I think. So it's like, you could just call him Chris. in Mark classic. Not funny. Is your name was Chris? I think so. It's like, you could just call him Chris. Just call him Chris or anything to do with his personality.

Yeah. Or hobbies. That's where a nickname would come from. But no. All right. I'm on a pronunciation website. I don't think you can hear this through the recording, but I'm just going to listen to my headphones.

It sounds like N tier. N tier. N tier. Giacob. N tier. There must be a famous person called Giac like N tier. N tier. N tier. Yakuob N tier. Sorry, there must be a famous person called Yakuob N tier because they're asking how to pronounce that. But if I can find that, I'd like to thank Casper and Kier from Ahus. Appreciate it.

We're giving him a wagon. Casper. Because if not, I want to do Warhead lollies, the super sour ones. Oh, I love them. I love the green ones. Oh, okay. No, actually, I don't wanna go that specific. All warheads.

So super hot super sour, all the colors. Also, what about nuclear weapons as well? Yeah, nuclear weapons. Yep. Okay. So not like all lollies or candy, just spoil it. All your heads and whatever Dave said, weapons. Weapons. Yeah. Casper, I trust you. All right. Look after them, please, Casper. Very important. I'm just a bit disappointed. There

aren't other, there's no skittles or something like other types of candy, but you know, it's like, well there's three more wagons. Just come on. You're right. Well, I would love to thank from Corvallis in Oregon. Oh, appropriate. No, yeah, Oregon, the Oregon Trail, right? Oregon Trail. Yeah, I'd love to thank Jason Gears and Jason's got a Skittle Wagon. Ha ha!

Oh, like 10 pin bowling. Oh, fuck. Ha ha! Oh, like 10 pin bowling. Oh, fuck. It's, it's, okay, no, Jason doesn't have a skiddle wagon, but he does look after the bar wagon. We've got a, like a pump. Oh, I like that. Pubble and wheels. How many beers on tap?

12. Well, that's pretty good for a wagon. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's great range. And five sideers, which is unheard of. Usually you might get one or two. So stoked by that. Thank you for your work, Jason.

Jason Gears, more like Jason Beers. Mm-hmm. Very important role. I'd also love to thank, from Stony Stratford. Great Britain, I would love to thank Chuffy Mullins. Oh my god. Hold the phone. Wow, Chuffy.

Wow, you would, I mean, this is like right at the end, the winner just floats in and beats ever. It's been an episode, Chocoblock, full of the best names of all time. And then just coming in right at the end, Chuffy Mullins. Chuffy Mullins. Chuffy Mullins. Oh my god, that knocked me off my chair. It's hard to then think of something appropriate that Chuffy might be in charge of. Well, let's think of something that's,

because we've done some of these haven't been all that useful. So I'm going to go with something very useful. Chuffy, of course, has a wagon full of dirt, the best building material. Chuffy, of course, has a wagon full of dirt, the best building material. Of course. Exactly. He can put up a floor at a moment's notice. Yeah. Chuffy, that may not seem like we've given you an important role, but as we've learned, we really have. Chuffy, you're a dirt. You're a dirt man. You're a dirt man. You're a dirt man. You're a dirt merchant.

You're the guardian of the dirt. Guardian of the ground. You're the the patron saint of the, what's another word for dirt? Soil. Soil. You're the patron saint of soil, that works. Soil or sizzla? The soil or sizzla. What does that mean?

The soil or sizzla from Fort Stony Strapford. You're the mulch merchant, mulch't quite right but you know you say what I was saying. It's close. Obviously the ballpark's in a different different wagon. Different wagon. Finally I would love to thank from Fort Collins in Colourado. I'm about to feel Collins Fort Collins. Not a lot of people know that. Yeah wow. I think Colorado. I love learning. Yes. In Ethan Gilbert's wagon. One rule. No jacket required. Yeah I'd love to I love learning. Yes. Ethan Guilder's wagon. One rule. No jacket required.

Yeah, I'd love to thank Ethan Gilbert. I've jumped ahead there. I've got it. It's over. I think maybe, oh, I had an idea and I lost it. Damn it. I had an idea. I got nothing.

You guys got something. Mini-goal poll. I was going to say a gym, but mini-goal is way better. Half and half. Oh yeah, gym and mini golf. Wagon. But like, so the gym, it's all the upper body stuff that's hanging from the roof, so you can do pull ups and stuff, but on the ground it's like lots of mini golf halts.

Oh, that's clever. Yeah, really using space. Yeah, exactly. You have to in a wagon. Yeah, you must. Well, I mean, they did also say that one of the wagons is basically two stories. So maybe it could be like a mezzanine gym, but mostly, mostly really golf. Yeah, I love it.

Perfect. Oh, God, Ethan, you're my new mate. Thank you to all of you. We'll see you in your wagons. We're all, obviously, on this road train as well. And we're leading it and we're doing things a little bit differently. We're going to go the way. Yeah. So we should get you there before winter. I'm never taking a short try again.

That's the main takeaway from this. I think the main takeaway should be, you can take a short cut, but if a close friend says, hey, that short cut's fucked. Listen, that's the takeaway. Yeah, that probably is good. Don't say, you've always been jealous of me. Don't say it. If you think it, the problem is with you. OK. All right, so the only thing left to do is to thank a few of our long term supporters. You can join the Triptage Club if you support us at the patreon.com slash do gone pod for three plus years straight on the shout out level.

There's a few to induct this week. The way this works for you to the show, I'm standing at the door with my clipboard. I got the door list on there. I'll lift the velvet rope as I mentioned these names. They run in. Dave is the hype man inside. He will give them a big hype up, making feel good about joining the rest of the crew inside. Jess is behind the bar. Oh, we've got some hotties in line tonight. Oh, right. I'm high five in the mesolina.

I also hype Dave's hype man. I need it. Jess is behind the, I'm a mess backstab. Just behind the bar with, she's working up some cocktails. She's got a small staff there of which I'm one and we make these cocktails as well as put together some little food. Oh, can I make her a quest? Sure. Donica babs. Oh, fucking hell. Well done. You're thinking about it all week. Here's what I was planning on doing. I was going to say no, no, no, no. I was like, when you said, kind of make a request, I was like, sure, but my plan was, as soon as you said it, I was gonna go, no. Cause I just thought that'd be a bit of fun. But you've absolutely nailed it.

Yes, Donna Cabab. Thank you. Perfect. I also always struggled to think of something. So thank you for doing the work. I'm not going to cocktail yet. Probably something salt, what's the one with salt around the rim?

Margaritas. Salt Lake City Margar the rim Margaritas Salt like city Margaritas Margaritas my all-time favorites and also haven't had them since I gave myself alcohol poisoning And that was a while ago. That feels like a good reason to Yeah, but I love them. I love them. Isn't it? That's the worst when someone you love hurt you like that. Yeah. I'm like, how could you do this to be a Lugger? It is. Well, there's a, a few two, there's a, a dirty half dozen to invite in. So without further ado, let's bring him in. Offs. Sorry, Dave also books the

musical act. I can't believe it. They said yes. We got Pearl Jam on tonight. We did not. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, can't find a better man. Yeah, let me sing better man with yes When I saw Bruce Springstain, they brought Eddie better up on stage. He was just in the crowd or something Eddie Was it a quite a big show and he was standing just nearest and then obviously hooked it up before him But he came up and sang a tune. That's fun. Not as good as that. And then we like, I'm next. I tune.

Working your way through the creative. The best one though was the first time, so I'm sorry, I've seen him twice. The first time supported by Barnesy himself. And sang a tune with Barnesy now. That's a life highlight for Bruce. Yeah. So Dave, you ready to hop these guys up

Tell James playing alive to celebrate the few survivors In that black circle here we go from Victoria BC and BC Canada Darcy Williamson oh Victoria's tonight Victoria, B.C. and B.C. Canada, Dasey Williamson. Oh, I'm feeling victorious tonight. Yes! Woo! From Poulton LaFieldy in Lancashire, great Britain, it's Tasha Hargreaves. Woo!

We might be grieving tonight because Tasha Hargreaves is here. Oh, Hargreaves. Oh, it's dead. Well, no one's gone into the grave tonight because Tasha's here to keep his safe. I've been absolutely spooked on the pronunciation of that word because that's the family name in the Umbrella Academy and I was saying hard graves and then someone said it's actually hard graves and then I looked it up and they spell it different out. I've spooked. I feel no I've got no confidence for hard graves at the moment.

Anyway, let's keep my proof in a long. We've got them covered. From Chandler in Arizona in the United States. It's Jamison and Tony Estes. Oh, could we be any more Estes? Yeah! I like also the new deal is now Jess is the hot man for Dave who's the hot man for the new thank you for coming in from fond du luck in'm going to say Wisconsin in the United States. It's ex-Z-Z-Z-L. Oh my god, ex-Z-N-L. Oh yeah. Wow. Fond de lauq, ex-Z-N-L.

That was something... The run-up if the name took so long, I forgot what I had earlier. John, may I give you another run at it? From Fond de la Lack in Wisconsin, the United States, it's XZ Neil. Oh, I fund you like this guy. There'll be no lack of Fondue at the end of the year. I'll let you use Lack for Lack,

even though in that same thing is Fond, a word meaning the same thing. You know what I said, I'm Fondue Lack this guy. Like I'm Fondue. Okay, great. Forget what I said then. From Wellwin in Garden City, Hertfordshire, Great Britain, it's Adam Stamford. Well, when you come along, I feel good. Adam, high five. And that's all, uh, no, sorry, there's one more from NIAQ in New York in the United States. It's Gregory Gritman.

United States, it's Gregory, Grytman. BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. Welcome Gregory. me and also like and retweet that tweet, if you wouldn't mind. Jess is pushing our Instagram. Follow Jess on Instagram. Jess Perkins, follow me on Twitter, Matt Stu underscore, and follow Dave on the street. How yeah, you know what I mean. Follow Dave's Twitter Instagram. But that brings us to the end of the episode.

What a fantastic time we've had here. Now, they're officially in blocktober, aka block tofer grace, aka block tofer grace period. Thanks so much for joining us. I feel good. The celebration doesn't end. It's going on all of block tober. We're here to have don't know part two. Let's do it. Yeah, here too, have Dona Partu. Let's do it. Yeah, can you believe that the fifth and the fourth episodes have already been this big? What could possibly be in the top three?

It's going to be great to find out. It is fascinating to see how the people have voted. Because there's a few surprises in there. There's definitely some big ones that I was kind of expecting, but a couple that I wasn't either, which is hard to have two different couples when there's only three topics to go.

Doesn't quite add up mathematically, but that is the end of the episode. Dave, let's boot this baby home. Getting contact anytime, guys, at dogoonpod.com with links to our social media and our Patreon, our YouTube, it's all at dogoonpod, or so let's do goonpod. Come say hey, but until next time, we will say say thank you very much for listening, and I'll say goodbye to you. Bye!

Bye! This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mateses. I mean, if you won't, it's up to you. At Nordstrom, you can shop the best holiday gifts for everyone you love. All in one place. You'll find beauty favorites, cozy presents, fun ideas under 100 and more. Like festive dressing for you in your home. Experience the magic at your favorite store. Or order on Nordstrom.com with free shipping and returns.

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