Two In The Think Tank - 299 - The Bone Wars

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

In one of the pettiest feuds we've discussed, this is the story of how two men decided to let their rivalry get in the way of what they had both set out to do - discover a whole bunch of dinosaurs.Get a ticket to our 300th episode live stream, Saturday July 10: https://sospresents.com/programs/dogoon-300th Get a ticket to our show at the Great Australian Podcast Festival on Nov 6: https://www.livenation.com.au/greataustralianpodcastfestivalFor tickets to Matt's Live Taping at Stupid Old Studios: https://www.mattstewartcomedy.com/ Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodBuy tickets for our screening of The Mummy on September 10: https://www.lidocinemas.com.au/mummyBuy tickets to our streamed shows (there are 16 available to watch now! All with exclusive extra sections): https://sospresents.com/authors/dogoon Check out our AACTA nominated web series: http://bit.ly/DGOWebSeries​ Check out Matt’s Beer show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej4TUguJL58 Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-Topic Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now

Hey everybody, Jess and Dave, just jumping in really quickly at the top here to make sure that you are across all the details for our upcoming Christmas show. That's right, we are doing a live show in Melbourne Saturday December the 2nd, 2023, our final podcast of the year, our Christmas special. It's downstairs at Morris House, which usually be called the European beer cafe. On Saturday December the 2nd, 2023 at 4.30pm, come along, come one, come all, and get tickets at dogoonpod.com. Most weight loss programs are short-term fixes, but managing your weight needs a long-term solution,

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in months, not years. Take classes online or on campus, and financial aid is available to qualified students, including the GI Bill. Now is the time, mycomputercareer.edu. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On, my name is Dave Warnicky and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkin. Hello! Hello! Oh! Wow! Difference in energy there, isn't it?

Difference in a... a...tamber timber which one is it? I don't know. No, no, no, no, no, Dave. You've started with a real curly run. I've just... Well before we get into the question that kicks off this episode we can tell you that which one of them? I don't know. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Sixth Saturday night, fantastic Palo Theatre. Tickets are on sale now and there. Ticking along in the description of this episode if you want to find the link. Quick fun fact about St. Kilda, the team who was originally based there

and still called St. Kilda Saints. They won their one and only VFLA for Pramyship in 1966. Wow. Another fun fact is I'm gonna be taping a live standup comedy show at the Shrubodol studio on July the 29th. And I would love you, listener, to be there. If you're in Melbourne or you can get to Melbourne, be so cool to have you there.

Tickets firematchshortcomedy.com. There's two sessions, 6.30 and 8.30. I don't know if there's tickets left for the 6.31, but definitely 8.30 is still tickets available. Why not come to both if there are tickets still available to the first one? I know. And 830, is that the adult's only session? That's the adult, so that's the one where I have my pants down. Same jokes as Pennston.

And yeah, well I mean we film from the way stuff, so only people in the room know. Oh that's not in room exclusive. Yeah. I'm also going to be in Adelaide on the 15th of July at the Rhinow room Tickets that also it meant sure comrade.com anyway, Dave enough of that Let's get on with the show how does it work again? Well, basically Matt We take it in turns to report on a topic often suggested by a listener and For the $299 time this week, it is Jess Perkins turned to give us a report Matt and I have no idea

Which is going to talk about and to get us on to that topic. She's now trying to ask us a question. My question is which war occurred over a 20 year period between 1872 and 1892? Oh the 20 years war. It was not a 20 years war. One of the ball wars. It's not a ball war. What was that? It's post that supposed cry me in this one? Yeah, I it is because

Because I remember that Burke robberdo hara Burke Try to get over in time for the cry man war in the 1870s or someone any missed it. He missed he misses everything Imagine missing a war. Oh, is he for the war? Shattered Okay, so post-crime man pre-World War one pre-Ball Pre-Ball War

It's a pre-Ball war. Sure Think about it less as a you know military battle and think about it a little clue is it think about things that are inside our bodies. Oh, I think I've seen this one in the hat before Okay It's the Large intestine wall He's not the largest the boner war It is the bone war. Oh, I said bone, but I also said, oh, do I get the point for that? No, no You said bone a wall and you're in that's the price of comedy.

It is. And Dave, your bone is inside you. I think I think that's good. Well, that's what I tell the rest of it's inside. It's actually really big. That most of it is inside. It's got debris. Collect two fit in here.

I think that technically is true. I think it just keeps going in. Yeah. That's just other ones that would snap off. It needs to be brewed anyway. Let's not get into the bio mechanics. Yes, you're right. I don't want to think about it. No. It is the bone wars. It's been suggested by a bunch of people.

I feel like I've seen it. Maybe even put up for a vote before, maybe. Well, it didn't win. No, but I don't know anything about it. It's one of those ones where you see the topping go. Sounds cool. Let's see. Yeah. Is it, I feel like dinosaur bones? Maybe. Ooh. That is.

It's been suggested by a lot of people, including Thomas McKenna, Adil Asker, Kostin, Esperatu, Eric Michels, Keith Higgins, Lacey, Mike Puddy, Kalam J, Burgess Wiley,

fucking hell, Kevin Packred, Tom McKenna again, he's stuck in, he's just at three times, I caught the other one where it was Thomas, but he got me with Tom. Jacob Hinkel, Luke Newcom, Paulita Barry,

Nelly Ben Jonathan Taylor Kance. Hey, Jonathan Taylor Kance in my book. Okay. Ben Montsma. Wow, these are all, I mean, they always are, but this is another great list of names. Emmy and Chris Torres. Wow, it felt like you said every name ever then.

Yeah, it felt like that. It felt like that went forever. I reckon Kevin Packrad might have had the most suggested topics that we've done. Yeah, sure. His name comes up a lot in what you used to. So what does that say? Does that say he has good suggestions or is a basic bitch? He's on our level.

A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. he has good suggestions or is a basic bitch. He's on our level. That's 20 years. Come on, baby, you're so if you shoot it would say. So prior to the 1870s, only nine species of dinosaurs had been discovered and named in the US. Over a 20-year period from around 1872 to 92, two American paleontologists. Oh, Roskella. 1872 to 92 two American paleontologists. Oh, Ross Gellar. Now, over their names are great. Edward Drinker Cope.

Sorry, what? Here we go. Cope was an old soft drink brand and they bought his surname for advertising. Drinker Cope. He had one drinker Cope. When I'm thirsty, I drinker Cope. LAUGHTER

When I'm thirsty from all that bone digging. I like to drink a cup. And Ophneel-Charles Marsh. Ophneel. Ophneel. Ophneel. Ophneel-Charles-March. Between them discovered 142 new species of dinosaurs.

Wow, no way. All while entangled in a petty and bitter feud. This is the bone wars. Love it. So a bit of backstory. Edward Drinker Cope was born on 28th of July 1840 in what would now be Philadelphia. And his interest in animals became apparent at a very young age as did his natural artistic ability. At 12 he attended the Friends Boarding School. Roskella. New West. Tester Pennsylvania. That's a friends themed boarding school. I do that. You're going to be in Joey's house.

Oh, you're a Phoebe. Surprisingly high IQ recently. Yeah, that's a good route. Yeah, she studied science. And according to biographer Jane Davidson, cope was a bit of a spoiled brat frequently writing letters home requesting a larger allowance. She's family had a bit of money. Just keep writing more. Dear mummy and daddy. More more. Question more. Yeah, I'll love a style. Yeah. Please, sir. Can I have some more money? Maybe you're wishing to negotiate your salary at work on the slides, the best tactic holding at your cap. Yeah, it's still an Oliver impression. Laysack, I have some more. Small, slop, and cash. Because you get paid with coins thrown into your hat.

Anyway, he often obtained bad marks due to quarreling and bad conduct. He developed a reputation of having pretty bad temper. After the summer break in 1855, Copes father decided not to send his son back to school but tried to encourage his son to become a gentleman farmer. Not sure what that is. Farms gentleman, yeah. Gentlemen, yeah, you got to, you got to grow. Which is tricky because they never shit.

How do you get the seeds? Yeah. How do you put them in the ground? Oh, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Do they grow on a tree them in the ground? Ah, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Do I grow on a tree or in the ground? In the ground. So you say I'm sort of coming up from the way stuff. Oh, I say.

So Dicks are originally roots. Yeah. So the Dicks and Legs and toes. So they grow Dick first? Yeah, Dick first. Yeah, it makes sense. It's my mother. So the scrotum is sort of like a bulb.

Yeah. So you plant the the scrote. And then the dick grows out of that, which starts sucking in nutrients. And then legs come out with toes. And then the gentleman will grow up from there. Oh, they're blooming. The gentleman grows up from there. Fucking hell, that's crook. So he wanted his son to be a farmer. He considered that to be a wholesome profession. It would yield enough profit to lead a comfortable life. It was a good job.

But all along, Edward had said he found farming dreadfully boring and wanted to pursue a more professional scientific career. Wiley worked on farms. He began working part-time at the Academy of Natural Sciences, reclassifying and cataloging specimen, and published his first series of research results in January of 1859.

Instead of working the farm, that his father bought for him, it would rent it out the land and use that money to fund his scientific endeavors. His dad's like really pushing, so like, hey, why don't you study these farming subjects? And he's like, I hate these farming subjects. He's like, what's your work on a farm?

And he's like, I hate work on a farm. He's like, how about I give you a farm? And he's like, I hate working on farm. He's like, how'd that give you a farm? And he's like, I'm gonna rent out that land. Training told his dad or he was like, in the morning, pretended to go to work on the farm. He gets up, puts his overalls on, and then drops to the lab. He must have told you. A tractor. At the end of the day, like when he's like a hundred meters from home, he pulls over,

rubs some dirt on his face, gets back on. God, you would not believe the day I have. On the tractor that I'm on. Me and the cows. I milked them, so we do. I looked at them, milked the chicken. A brushdom? I think he did tell his dad, because eventually his dad just gave in and paid for his university classes.

So in 1861, he attended the University of Pennsylvania and studied comparative anatomy under Joseph Leedy, one of the most influential anatomists and paleontologists at the time, and that name will come up later. What's the name again? Joseph Leedy. Great. I like it, Leedy.

Over the next few years, he had a job recadilogging the herpetological collection at the Academy of Natural Sciences and published many works, primarily on reptiles and amphibians. And what is herpetological Collection at the Academy of Natural Sciences and published many works primarily on reptiles and amphibians. And what is Herpetological? A fantastic question, Matt. I don't know. Herpetological. Herpetological.

Herpetological. Use it in a sentence. Hi. I'm doing a bit of Herpetological work. Herpetological. Herpetological. Herpetological. Herpetological. Herpetological. Herpetological. Herotological work. Herp. Eh, t-t-l-l-j-st. What's that?

A herpotologist. He's a zoolologist who studies reptiles and it's what he sort of said. Reptiles and amphibians such as frogs and salamanders. Many herpotologists are gone. Fogas on conservation of these species. Others use them to assess overall environmental conditions in a particular area. That's from environmental science.org. Yeah, I read that.

I think one of his first major works was on salamanders. Right. So that makes sense. In 1863 at the age of 23, went traveling around Europe visiting museums and meeting highly esteemed scientists his father sent him off traveling. I think one of the reasons his dad sent him off traveling was that he was like in a relationship with someone his dad didn't approve of and also civil war was happening so send him off to a boy with a draft.

Oh wow. And you know I can take you to a find yourself. Yeah 23. You're young to settle down. Two young to settle down. Your parents are so tall. You two young to settle down. They hate your partner. No, I mean you don't see what's out there. I mean maybe you should join the war if you get away from that.

Yeah is that the worst thing in the world? Hey, front of you, you think you believe, whichever side that is. If you live through the war, it was meant to be. Yeah. Then you can, I guess, see you again, if you have to. So while he was in Berlin, that's where he met off-neil Charles Marsh, a 32 year old American who was studying at the University of Berlin.

So he's also American, okay. Yeah, both American. He was born, Mars was born October 29, 1831, in Lockport, New York. His mother Mary gained P-Body, was a younger sister of wealthy banker and philanthropist George P-Body. Oh, from the P-Body award.

Yeah. His mother died of cholera when he was three years old. Yes. Yeah, genuinely. Genuinely. mother died of cholera when he was three years old. So yeah, George, often he also lost his mother when he was young, but with the financial backing of his uncle, George P.Body, he obtained a very good education, he graduated from Phillips Academy and over in 1856 and Yale College with his Bachelor of Arts degree with honors in 1860. Then he received a Berkeley scholarship from Yale and studied geology,

mineralogy and chemistry at Yale's Sheffield Scientific School from 1860 to 1962. Like it's just studying the whole thing. He's got many degrees. He studied paleontology and anatomy in Berlin, which is of course where he met Edward Cope. The tour became friends, exchanging letters and discussing paleontology, and even named species after each other. Oh. Isn't that nice? So there's like a drinker-cope assora. Cope named an amphibian fossil, pyrtonius marshy. And was it like the lamest one? Is it they already haven't go at each other? Or is it still kind of kind? It's gonna be nice.

It's almost all stick. Oh look, I found your one. Found your, uh, your great, great grandpa. Yeah, you're only two generations, separated from this thing. Your little prick. So, is Dr, his middle name? Yeah.

Drinker, drinker. Mm. There you go. Incredible. Yeah, baffling. Um, Mars returned the favor, naming a giant marine creature, mossosaurus, copenus. It's copanus. So that's good.

Yeah. I think there are pretty different personalities. And like, Marsh is sort of like, he's wealthy because of his uncle and but very, very educated. But, cope is more of like the gentleman, but not as educated. So I think they kind of, they look down on each other for different things.

Oh, I know. So they sort of, for the first few years, they're like, they send letters back and forth, they're discussing things. And it seems fairly friendly, but I think it's a little bit of a love hate. Upon his return to the United States in 1866, Marsh was appointed professor of vertebrate paleontology at Yale University, making him the first professor

of paleontology in the US. That's in 1866, first professor of paleontology. That's kind of cool. When his uncle George P.Body passed away, Othnell inherited $100,000, and this money was put towards his scientific work, and he and his many fossil hunters, incredible job title, were able to uncover about 500 new species of fossil animals. Wow. So, yeah, essentially it's like they have people, they kind of send out to various places, wherever, yeah, somebody finds a fossil in one area and just like heaps of people arrive and start digging and finding stuff.

Like a bone rush. Yeah, yeah, big time. And then... I've had one of those. That's probably like 13 to 18. Oh, good. I can't stand up for the next four to six minutes. Very specific, right?

And so yeah, they'd find fossils, send them back to these paleontologists who have the qualifications, the education in identifying what stuff is and figuring out what it came from. They were pretty loose at the time though, I think they had to undo some of the work from the old days where, like, I know, the triceratops, or there were certain animals where different people would find fossils, but they were just like a young triceratops, say, and an older one, which is a lot bigger.

And two people would call them two different species. And then they had to like start combining, in feel that it was a recent one? Oh, 100% this. Oh, right. They're finding the same things, they're finding stuff that's already been found for 10 years earlier. They're naming it their own thing. It's not just them, but these two are the fucking worst at it.

So that yeah, they're putting, they're just whatever bones they find, they're just making it work. It's like having puzzle pieces from three different puzzles. They're like, that's what that is. Just be serious and a rush to like find the next thing and to have more finds than the other person. So that 142 number I said, it's like 30 of those are valid. Oh, that's right. They're just making shit up. So they're making it like merging all these.

The rest of them, they're just gulping together. Pulled out the glue gun and just gone. Bit here, bit here. Yeah, this one has legs coming out of its head and its butt. Yeah, cool, a butt leg. It's a butt leg, a source. So that out of its head and its butt. Yeah, call it butt leg. It's a butt legosaurus. So that's another one for me, tick. It's wild.

Yeah, this is a one butt legosaurus. This one's a two butt legosaurus. I got a heap of these three butt legosaurus. Yeah, I got, I could go all day with my buttosaurus. But I only went to four. Start running out of room on the buttocks. So Cope on the other hand became a professor of geology at Haviford College, but only after his family connections got him an

honorary master's degree so that he could get the job. Right, because he's sort of self-taught in a way. Yeah, he does not like, he's done some university classes, I don't think he has a full qualification, but he's family is quite wealthy. Right, and he worked in a lab from a very young age. Yeah, pretty young, yeah. So, yeah, they gave him an honorary degree just so that he could actually have the job as a professor of suology.

Feels like you should probably actually learn, but that's fine. And he also worked for the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia. And over the next few years, both men continued their work with an almost obsessive nature. Cope got married and had a daughter. And while the family lived very comfortably,

his main concern was for more money to spend on his scientific work. When I say comfortably, they had a nice house with servants, they had staff and they were fine. They were very, very well off. It's a funny addiction. I need more cash. It's for my habit. What's your habit, science?

Yeah. I've made another hit. Oh, good. I've got a lot of fossils. Got to find them bottles. You never get there, Thriller. You get for the first Thridolot. You get for the first discovery.

Chasing the dragon. Well, I'm literally trying to find a dragon's fossil. Have you seen him? I'll pay good money for it. Don't give it to Mars! There's a lot of that too. The 1870s were the golden years of Cope's career, marked by his most prominent discoveries and rapid flow of publications.

In the period of one year from 1879 to 1880, Cope published 76 papers based on his travels through New Mexico and Colorado and on the findings of his collectors in Texas, Kansas, Oregon, Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah. So he's got people spread out. Right. 76 papers in like a year or two. In the year. 76 papers.

How is he doing that? Hmm. Do you think any of them are good? Oh, yeah. Do you think they're thought out? Yeah, they're okay. Yeah, they're great. Yeah, they're pretty good.

They're great. They're great. He was turning out so much work that many errors occurred and several of his scientific names were later cancelled or withdrawn. Sort of what we were talking about before, like this kind of, he's just sort of, I don't know, it feels like he's rushing into stuff really quickly just to like, churn the workout, just to be prolific for prolific sake. Yeah, he's a quantity of equality kind of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect. So he's churning a lot out and he's not always the most accurate. But Mars, on the other hand, wrote, far less than cope, but to a much wider audience, often appearing in the popular American Journal of Science, which led to his reputation growing much faster. Oh, interesting. So he's he's quality. Right.

And that's working. Interesting. So interesting, isn't it? Yeah. That's how that works. We should dry quality sometimes. Now, back to fat jokes. On one occasion.

Oh. That's funny. That is funny. That is funny. That's a good one. That's funny. That's a good one. On one occasion, the two scientists had gone on a fossil collecting expedition together to co-ops milestone pit in New Jersey. So, co-op takes Marsh to like one of his sites. He's like, come on down. We'll grow dig for fossils together, it'll be real cute. At the end of the expedition,

like it was all amicable, but Marsh secretly bribed the pit operators to send any future fossils to him and not to cope. That's poor form. Oh no. That's poor form from Marsh. That's a real dog. I feel he invited him to his pit. Yeah, if you're a guest in someone's

Pit, you don't behave that way. Yeah. How do you behave? Well, in a much more gentlemanly way. Yeah, firstly, you don't shit Never shit the pit never shit the pit. Secondly, you just you just don't steal fossils. Hmm. That's almost a blanket rule for me Never steal fossils really, but is the shit in a pit always a black or the fossils are often shit That's almost a blanket rule for me. It's never steel fossils. Really? But is the shit in a pit always a blanket rule? Well, fossils are often shit, aren't they? Yeah. So, rule applies to that. Oh, yeah.

Today's shit tomorrow's fossil. That's what I say every time I flush. One man shits another man's fossil. That'll be a diamond one day. I understand science. Congratulations. I believe that's how it works. So this obviously didn't go down very well.

The two began to attack each other in papers they publish, and they already rocky relationship, only deteriorated further. In 1867, bones were found in Fort Wallace, Kansas, which co-examined over a few years, naming it a lasmosaurus pletip… pletipurus. I don't know. It was a big deal.

Alasmasaurus was the first major fossil discovery in Kansas, and the largest there from there at the time. And it marked the beginning of a fossil collecting rush that sent thousands of fossils from Kansas to prominent museums on the American East Coast. So it was a big deal that they'd found this big dinosaur. It was like a big aquatic plessiosaur. It had four flippers and a really long neck. How many butt legs?

It had four butt flippers. Whoa, that'll be a fast swimmer. Big muscles of the butt. Oh yeah. And a fast pooper. Cause it was phantom out. Where'd. And a fast pooper. He just fan him out. Where'd it go? No one knows.

But when the alasmasaurus was on display, so he's got it on display, everybody's looking at it going, wow, look at this new thing, you found sick. In walks, Marsh, who takes one look at it, and casually tells Cope that he's put the head on the wrong end. No! He's like, he put the head on the butt.

He's like, hey cool down, so man, you put the head on the butt. That's the temper, head came from. Oh no! Cope, the one with the temper, cracks it, and the two are arguing for some time, and then they decide to get Joseph Lady, Cope's mentor, to come and examine the bones and decide, once and for all, who is correct? I want the role, where's the butt, and where's the hood? So Lady comes down, picks up the head of the fossil, puts it at the other end. Oh, he must've been.

Oh, he must've been. Lady also concluded that Alasmasaurus was identical to Discosaurus. A place he saw he had named in 1851. So it was the same as something that already existed. Discosaurus. Discosaurus. Oh, good is that. Dicacootid. Um, cop that? Dicacadu-dic. Um, copes.

Dicacadu-dic. Sorry, I'm just gonna mess with myself in the silent disco. Sandstorm's playing. Sick. Dicacadu-dic. That answers you every now and then say along. You're awfully cold me out on it. I appreciate it. No, so I really, you know, otherwise, if you don't have checks and bounds, get away with anything.

Every now and then I just, I'm in the song disco and then I wake up and I'm back in real, you're fully viewing there. But you wake up and you've still got those flurro sticks. Yes! Ready between it because... How do they get it closed? Yeah. How's it going?

Da da da da. You've still got fingers in your pockets? Da da da da. How's it going? It's going on. It's going on. Where am I? Am I a disc or so?

Hahaha. Is my butt in my head? Is my head in my butt? He put it the wrong hand. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that's, I'm retiring that day. Look, I had to go. It's all over.

Yeah, you really, you've argued the other guy for hours about it. You brought in the expert, you are basically putting your entire career on whether he's going to move the head or not. And as soon as he does, you go, thanks very much, I'm out. And it's funny that he didn't say it, nah, it's the wrong idea. He went over, he picked up the head and he put it at the other end. So just to make it really slow and painful, so always picking up, is he going to just readjust the...

No, he's walking over to the other end. Oh, is he going to... This is the fake out? There's a little bit of a polite crowd in there So I'm commenting Lee picks up the head Exam is it is he's dusted it off He's taking a few strides to the other end of the torso Oh, he's putting it down here He's putting it down on the neck.

That is the neck is where the head below him in. That is a game set not on the butt. Fantastic. I think Fantastic Bonework there. I've never seen a credit play. Fantastic Bonework. That's why he is the best. He's the bonemaster.

We've always said that. We've always said that about Joseph Leedy, the bone master general. Another fantastic play. So, Cop is absolutely mortified. Mainly because he had already published a paper on the fossil with the era at the American philosophical society published a paper. So he's missed a paper. The paper has the head with the era at the American philosophical society So his publisher paper The paper has the head on the butt and it's called the wrong thing Yes

So he tried I'm picturing it like fully drawing, you know they'll use CGI I would ever to show what the honestly might've looked like It's clearly a butt with a head coming out of it Magnificent bass I don't know how I didn't see it. It ate where it shits. It was efficient. No, much more efficient than I'll speak then. I call it devolution. We have devolved. So he tries to buy back all the copies of his

paper. Oh! It is awful. he couldn't get them all back. Can you guess who maybe had a copy and wasn't supposed to give it up? No, dog. What a dog. He even voted him to his pit. Yeah, Marsh hasn't. So does Lady.

Lady I read. I forgot to, I didn't write it down in the end, but Cope kind of tried to like cover it up. Like he didn't admit that he was wrong. He just tried to like get all those papers back and then just, um, republish the correct way. Yeah. Um, so Lady kind of called him out on it.

Yeah, because he'd already found that. Yeah, and he said, I think that he was more in sense that like, you haven't just admitted you were right. It's okay to be wrong. Right. You just haven't admitted that you were incorrect. He wanted to teach him a lesson. Yeah. He was like a mentor to him so make sense. So Copenhagen, they're done now. Any chance of being unvocable is over. You know like you teach a dog. I don't know if I still do this but putting the dogs face in their nemes. Yeah. How much easier would that have been for these don'tsers?

How much easier would that have been for these dancers? And it seems like they probably enjoyed it. Yeah, that's right. So yeah, it would be easy to tip them over slightly. You don't show where you're at. Well, after these sort of sorts. Don't eat when you're shit. It's like, I probably doesn't matter which order that is in there. They always found that expression pretty offensive.

Well, be nice if I didn't have to. So yeah, they're done. There's no chance of them rekindling any kind of friendship. And from now on, they just openly hostile towards one another. What followed is just decades of pittiness and sabotage. In 1877, Marsh received a letter from Arthur Lakes, a schoolteacher in Golden Colorado. Lakes had been hiking in the mountains near town,

near the town of Morrison with his friend, looking for fossilized leaves in the Dakota sandstone. Instead, the pair found large bones embedded in the rock. Lakes sent marsh, the bulk of the bones, but also sent some to cope. Not really sure why. I don't think you necessarily knew about the rivalry is probably just more like,

if you know, send it out a bit and whoever bites. Yeah. You probably get paid for it. So he's, you know, send it out to a couple of big names. Marsh published his findings and paid like $100. And Blake's thought he'd better let Cope know that he should probably send the bones

that he had to Marsh as it's, kind of his discovery now. Marsh has already published his stuff. So you've sent those bones over. Cope didn't like that. Marsh didn't like that. Like, he sent any of the bones to Cope in the first place. So they're just pissed off all the time.

Another time Marshth heard about a vast bone yard in Como Bluff Wyoming and sent one of these guys down to be in charge of the digging. Cope learns of this and sends his own guy down and they just try to sabotage each other the whole time. Both men tried to spy on the others whereabouts and attempted to offer their collectors more money in the hopes of recruiting them to their own side. So they're trying to poach each other's collectors as well. Coke was actually, he was able to do it, he recruited a couple of men from Marsh, David Baldwin in New Mexico and Frank Williston in Wyoming. So he stole a couple of his people.

They were really secretive and paranoid and never wanting to reveal the source of their fossils in case the other one found out and sabotaged them. So they won't talk to anybody about it. They didn't even publish their findings anymore. It's just all secret. So the paleontological digs lasted 15 years from 77 to 92. And the workers for both cope and

marsh suffered hardships related to the weather as well as the sabotage and obstruction by the other scientist workers so many of these workers are good friends with each other and they pitted against each other and sent to spy and sabotage on their former friends yeah Yeah, it sounds like a toxic workplace. Yeah. Full espionage style, you don't know who to trust. Yeah. Like, especially if you're poaching someone, well,

if you're able to approach them, maybe you can approach you back. Like, could be a double agent. Yeah, can you trust them? Yeah, there were a couple of instances where, like, people who had worked for Marsh went out on digs with cope and Marsh got really paranoid about about it and they were like, no, we're still your people. So it was really confusing as to like, are they spying or are they just needing work? So they're just working where the work is, which is pretty reasonable.

It's very strange. Doesn't sound like they'd be treated reasonably though. No. Oh, you're gonna work for him now, are you okay? Well, I'll gonna kill your family. Sorry, what? Well, I'm a freelance, so I just do whatever work I can get. I literally just dig. I'm a digger. I'm a digger, I've got a big shovel. I'm gonna have to use it.

Oh, I'm a kid. I've got a big shovel and I know how to use it. Oh! Woo! Must be nice. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. That must be nice.

The two men, Kopenhage, were so protective of their digging sites that they would often destroy smaller or damaged fossils to prevent them from falling into their rival's hands. They're destroying fossils? Yes. If it's small or damaged, blow it up. Oh my god. from falling into their rival's hands. They're destroying fossils. Yes. If it's small or damaged, blow it up. Oh my God, they started, this is something they started out with the love of the Foss.

Yeah, they love the Foss. And they're blowing up those. Just so that the other one doesn't get it. But it's like if it's worth them getting, why don't you just hold on to it? Yeah, that doesn't mean any sense. No, it's stupid. Really, it's got a bit of the feel of that biblical story

where the King goes, which of you, you both want this baby? Well, I'm going to cut it in half, you're going to be each have half, or even the Seinfeld episode, where I say, if you both want this black, I'll cut it in half. And then I think Kramer goes, no, no, I'd prefer a lane to have it then to cut it out in noomans like if I'm remembering this right Kramer, you've shown that you have the spark the most

you can keep the bike. It's a great way to test people. Yeah, I think that one. Yeah, they would also, so yeah, they'd blow up or they'd destroy Smaller fossils sometimes they would just fill in their excavation sites with dirt and rocks again to make it harder for somebody else to Come along and dig there. It sounds like but based on that story the Kramer and the bike Neither of them deserve these fossils. They're both willing to blow them up. Yeah, and sabotage. Oh, it's strange Yeah, they they used to have their eyes on the prize and now it's all about jealousy and stuff. It's sad to see. It is so sad. On one occasion, which I thought was something that was maybe a bit exaggerated for the

episode of Drunk History, I watched on this. But it seems it's true. I'm glad you did some deep research. I was like, hmm. And then our copes started drinking like six shots of bourbon. And then copes said, anyway, yeesh, Allah. No, but it seems that it is true. The rival teams one time fought each other by throwing stones.

They just had a stone fight. And then they came through fossils. pit's quite close to it. I'll just throw and rock. I'm trying to control it. I'm trying to control it. Cleaning, and even exercising. But what if you could be saving money by switching to progressive? Drivers who saved by switching saved nearly $750 on average, and auto customers qualify for an average of 7 discounts. Multitask right now. Quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive casualty and trans company

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career evaluation. You could start your new career in months, not years. Take classes online or on campus, and financial aid is available to qualified students, including the GI Bill. Now is the time, mycomputercareer.edu. It's so stupid. And it wasn't just dig sites that they would try to sabotage. They also tried their best to ruin each other's professional credibility, but it's like, okay, well, you sabotaging the sites.

You kind of already doing that. Copes have it of churning out half-baked papers, gave Marsh plenty of opportunity to point out errors and publicly criticize Cope. He just went, wrong, no. How was he dealing with it all? Dealing with it all. He turned into a real drinker. By the 1880s Marsh had used his connections to be appointed chief paleontologist for the USJC Which is the US Geological Society headed by John Wesley Powell He was also elected head of the National Academy of Science and And with this. And which end did they put the head? With his new power and federal funds at his disposal, Marsh began cutting

cope off from government funding. He succeeded in denied, denied, denied. Absolutely. So Cope's influence was dwindling, as was his family fortune. So he invested in silver mines, which were profitable for a couple of years, but the mines stopped producing. And by 1886, he had to give up his now worthless stock. So he's kind of lost everything.

He's got no money, but it gets worse. Not that. That's so cool. He's lost everything, but it gets worse. It gets worse, but it gets worse. No, no, it's not cool. He's lost everything, but it gets worse. It gets worse, but it gets better. OK. I did a bit of a rollercoaster for both of them over the next few years. So Marsh got a law passed that said all fossils

collected with the help of government funding now belong to the Smithsonian. This was an outrage to Cope who had used his own money while working as a volunteer. Marsh had included a clause saying, this includedope who had used his own money while working as a volunteer. Marshall included a clause saying, this included scientists who had accompanied government expeditions at their own expense. So he's essentially just saying anything Cope has his ass now, mine. Anything you have, mine.

Give it to me. So it wasn't even subtle. It was so obvious. And that was like a law that was an actor that worked on the past. Like grandfathered it over there say, that's stiff. But I mean also fair enough. I always think you're digging stuff out of the ground. That should be everybody's stuff.

Yeah, okay. Give it to me. I want that too. I want it. Give me that gentleman. That's freshly dug up gentleman. We should all have a go. Like I get the dinosaur bones on Monday.

Matt gets sick. Yes. Yes, when they just cycles through. What about Saturday? Yeah, what about what about Sunday? Yeah, what about Sunday? Seems like a reference that you're the one. No, I don't get the one.

I was the one they bought issue one of radioactive man. Oh, yes, yes. Mill house. Yep. Oh, America, yes, yes. Mill house. Yep. Home, American, you check on the boys? They're fine. Let us tell each other what.

What about Sundays? So this starts a whole new war because Cop had something that Marsh didn't realize he had. A little something I'll be sweet. What's he got? Cop had kept an elaborate journal of mistakes and misdeeds that both Marsh and Pal had committed over the years. I love it. He had evidence. From scientific errors to publishing mistakes, he had them all written down in his little journal. A little black book? Yeah. He took this journal to the New York Herald, and the first article around on January 12, 1890.

Apparently riddled with mistakes, spelling errors. The journalist's not the best, but it put the info out there. Kind of. It would become a series of newspaper debates between Marsh, Powell and Co. Why didn't the newspaper do a spell check? A fantastic question, Matt. A fantastic question. Co-Petact Marsh for plagiarism and financial mismanagement

and attacked Powell for his geological classification errors and misspending of the government allocated funds. They had like a bit of a rebuttal, but no investigation occurred into Powell's alleged misallocation of funds. But the bad press did put pressure on Powell to remove Marsh from his position. So I guess Cope kind of got his way because he got Marsh booted.

Oh wow. So Marsh loses his position of power and Cope begins to slowly get back on his feet. After Joseph Leedy died, Cope took over his position as professor of zoology at the University of Pennsylvania and the wage from that proved to be enough for the family to move back into their home that they'd have they'd had to vacate a couple of years earlier they sort of lost their home and then oh right got it back did you find yourself siding with one of the guys in the reading? I think you do side a little more with cope but he he's not great either. Right. Like they both, and I think I hope I included that somewhere in here, but somebody talking

about the men reflection later, it was like they both did a lot more damage by like blowing shit up and destroying things just out of pettiness. Takes a long time to build a fossil, and then to blow it up, so like, that's frickin' hell. Yeah. Great. Come on. You know how long it took me to get that?

Oh, come on boys. That's millions of years, right? Millions of years? No, send that one. It's like ages. Geez. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cope sold his collection to the American Museum

of Natural History in 1895. I don't know exactly what happened when Marsh had that rule of like, everything you've collected sent to us. It seems like obviously that didn't really happen because Cope still had quite a massive collection, which he sold. He was like, yeah, sent it all in. He had about 10,000 American fossils of mammals. 10,000 American fossils? mammals 10,000 American fossils That's that fun. Sorry. He said it in a fun way. Yeah, 10,000 American fossils It's also a lot 10,000. Yeah tapes sold for 32,000 dollars. I don't have 10,000 anything dollars

Okay, the two If I sold that. If I get maybe if I might have to liquefy some assets. So you're getting three bucks apart for these things. Yeah, it's not great, is it? It was lower than he's asking price of 50,000. He sold three other collections for $29,000. But even though he had quite a lot of staff, like he had a collection of more than 13,000

specimens, his fossil hoard was still much smaller than Marsha's collection, valued it over a million dollars. Whoa, whoa. Because Marsha's had a two million plus. Marsh just had a lot more money, like fairly consistently through his life, it seemed. They both at different stages lost everything because they just kept spending so much on this.

That does seem like a thing that happens with people who are addicted to being the best at some or especially in business that they'll lose their fortune a couple of times. I guess it's, you know, bound to happen and then they'll risk it all again and build it up. It's wild. Yeah.

Wild way to live. Sounds stressful. I was just thinking that. It sounds, it doesn't sound like a fun life. And you're so angry at somebody else who just loves the same thing you do. And you screw, you're screwing people over. Like you can't do that without screwing over lots of people.

Yeah. Sorry I'm bankrupt now, so I'm writing off all that debt. Yeah. Oh cool. I was kind of relying on that money. Sorry. There rivalry. have some fossil. 10,000.

Welcome. They, um, yeah, their rivalry was throughout their whole lives through the ups and downs. They both faced. They both achieved a lot and both had times of financial ruin and personal hardship. Like I mentioned, um Judging by pure numbers, Marsh won the Bone Wars. Both scientists made fines of immense scientific value, but while Coke discovered a total of 56 new dinosaur species, Marsh discovered 80.

In the later stages of the Bone Wars, 80. And that's like after they took away all the, like, I'm not 100% sure. Yeah, I don't know. Jeez. Because that's still, I don't know. Geez. Cause that's still, that's a lot. But I get early days, cause I was surprised, I read that not too long ago

that I was surprised how recent, you know, humans discovered dinosaurs. Yeah. Was it in the 1700s or something? Uh, so. So? It was like relatively recently. Yeah.

So make sense that when you're there early, you're gonna be able to find more. Find a lot of it, yeah. There's a bit, the biggest one in Australia has discovered recently. Really? Or announced, yeah. You would have seen that at work. Yeah, yeah, I was big.

It's like, yeah. Thank you for another. That's why people tune in. It was really big. All right. Another spot on contribution from Dave. I can't remember where it was. Can't remember where it was.

Oh, let me, when you finished, Jeff, I'll find an article to sort of summarize the new thing. OK, cool. In the latest stages of the bone wars, Marsh simply had more men and more money at his disposal than Cobb did. That's what I was talking about before. He just had more men and more money at his disposal than Cove did. That's what I was talking about before. He just had more cash.

Cove also had a much broader set of paleontological interests. Marsh was kind of, he was more interested in reptiles and mammals. Cove was kind of interested in everything. So I think they were looking for different things. But anyway, from Wikipedia, this is a really good thing that kind of sums them up a little bit. Wikipedia.org. .org? Yes, it's a really good thing that kind of sums them up a little bit.

Wikipedia.org? Yes, it's a new website that I'm really fond of. Wow. Despite their advances, the Bone Wars also had a negative effect not only on the two scientists, but also on their peers and the entire field. The public and amostity between Copermarsh harmed the reputation of American paleontology in Europe for decades.

They gave them all a bad name. Furthermore, the reported use of dynamite and sabotage by employees of both men may have destroyed or buried hundreds of potentially critical fossil remains. How stupid! Is there a difference between dynamite and dynamite? Dino mate. Joseph Leedy abandoned his more. Massotic fish. I know.

Joseph Leedy abandoned his more methodical excavations in the West, finding he could not keep up with copes and marshes reckless searching for bones. So they sort of deterred other people. In their haste to outdo each other, copen marsh haphazardly assembled the bones of their own discoveries. Their descriptions of new species, based on their reconstructions,

led to confusion and misconceptions that lasted for decades after their death. Oh gosh. So yeah, they're just kind of going, well, I've got this, this and this. Well, just that must be all together. And it's like, no! There could be different things that you've found. That's funny.

It's a bit odd. Copes of it ill health in his final years, dying in April of 1897 at the age of 56. Cope insisted through his will that no grave side service or burial be held. He donated his body to science. He issued a final challenge to Mark, Mark at his death. What's the final answer? He had his skull challenge to Mark, Mark at his death. What's the point?

He had his skull donated to science, so his brain could be measured. Oh, yeah. Hoping his brain would be larger than Mark's. At the time, brain size was thought to be the true measurement of the television. That is so funny. That is the worst example of a pissing contest I've ever heard of. Who's got the bigger brain? And I don't know them ever. No.

The younger one dies first and says, well, measure my brain. Marsh will see. And Marsh was like, nah, fuck that. And Marsh started a couple of years later and they never measured. So it was all pointless. but yeah, he never accepted the challenge. That's exactly what a small brain person did. Cope's skull is reportedly still preserved at the University of Pennsylvania. His ashes were placed at the Institute with those of Joseph Lady while his bones were extracted

and kept in a locked drawer to be studied by anatomy students. So he donated his to the university to be studied and his ashes rather than being buried with his family was buried with his professor Yes Okay, that's a normal professor's relationship Obviously all your uni tutors, I'm sure you'll be buried alongside them one day obviously. I don't I can't name a single uni tutor I had Yeah neither No single year new tutor I had. Yeah neither. No. Okay I can picture like one face. Yeah. Geez that's bad. That's bad isn't it? Obviously my, or centuries ago. Yeah, you're also mostly now locked in boxes around the, the, the countries, the bones.

Yeah, the countries, their bones. So yeah, Marshtair in 1899, couple of years after cope at the age of 67, finally ending their feud. No. I want to know who had the bigger brain. But that is, yeah, that is the story of the bone wars. I tried to focus on the dumb stuff they did and kind of why. There's more information that goes into a lot more detail

about some stuff, but honestly, it was really hard to follow because I'm not a paleontologist. I figure you the listener, I'm not a paleontologist. We should have put David Swimmer on this episode. Yes. Yes. We should have done it. I feel like a fool.

Hey, great report. Jess, I've heard the term, the Bone Wars bone wars before but I never knew what it was about. Yeah, maybe I had seen it in the hat, but never really looked into it, but it's a bit of fun. I think I definitely pictured it to be more of a traditional battle. Yes. But this is maybe more fun. So here's an article from BBC.com. It says, scientists say new dinosaur species in Australia,

largest, sorry. So I'm just saying, new dinosaur species is largest found in Australia. Scientists in Australia have classified a new species of dinosaurs discovered in 2007 as the largest ever found on the continent. It shows how long it takes from finding to like getting it all together Give it back in the day since I he discovered something then 11 hours later. Yeah, something was published about it

I imagine rules were probably written up because of the way they behaved. Yeah, the Astrology Titan Cooper-Rensus or the Southern Titan is among the 15 largest dinosaurs found worldwide experts said that the Titanosaur would have been up to 6.5 meters or 21 feet tall and 30 meters long. Whoa! As long as a basketball court. Its skeleton was first discovered on a farm in southwest Queensland. Paleontologists had worked over the past decade to identify the dinosaur,

distinguishing it from other known species by comparing scans of its bones to those of other sauropods. So there's a whole system now. Yeah. You can't just go now, I found a new one. They've got to do a decade of work making sure that it's not. That's cool. Sauropods were planning to eat dinosaurs known for their size. They had small heads, very long necks, long tails and thick pillow-like legs. These dinosaurs roamed the continent during the Cretaceous period, about 92 to 96 million years ago.

Wow. The team of researchers had nicknamed the dinosaur Cupa while working on it after the nearby Cupa Creek where it was found. Cupa Creek, is that from Bergenwills? I think it was. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. They missed this. The biggest dinosaur. Fucking hell, guys. They honestly could, they could find it. The dig tree was probably like just next to it. Dig here.

No, dig here. Have you seen it? Is there's that article? I have an animation of what they think the dinosaur looks like. Yeah, looks sick. How sick is that neck? Well, that's cute. What about the ABCs? Look at the little little little little little little little. Hello. Hello. Hello. The little plant editing they wouldn't hurt us. Could we go on a kid's TV show? Hello.

That's great. That's great. Real cute. A great report there, Jess. That was very interesting. Thank you. Jess fantastic. I love hearing about it. Thank you. I pause so you could compliment me as well. I realize that too late. Now it's time for everyone's favorite section of the show where we thank some of our fantastic supporters on patreon.com such to go on pod and do go on pod.com and Yeah, these people keep the show running

because of them, we're able to do it every week. Every Wednesday, for nearly 300 episodes, we've put out one every week. And that's with thanks to these fantastic supporters. Honestly, without you, we can't keep it going. You keep the bloody lights on. And more importantly, the mics on. So these mics may power.

Yeah, without you, it is just 300 weeks of two people yell, three people should say we've just lost just yelling in a room. So there's heaps of different rewards you get on those websites. If you support the show, depending on the level, bonus episodes, there's a Facebook group, all sorts of things, weekly newsletters, blah, blah, blah. But one of the big ones is the fact-quotal question section, which I think has a little jingyool to go, something like this. I always remember the ding, that was a very good jess impersonation. Thank you, jess has had to run after a fight around bone war, so she may be back, we'll see.

The way this works is people send in a fact, a quote, or a question. If they're subscribed on the Sydney Shahnberg Deluxe Memorial additional level, rest in peace. And you get to give us a fact, a quote, a question. You also get to give yourself a title. I'll read out four. Read them out for the first time on the show. Here we go.

Julian Barnes, whose title is, I'm hungry. As given us a quote, and Julian's quote is, I'm hungry. Julian's quote is, hey guys, so looking forward to your upcoming live shows. I wrote this six years ago in March. Okay, so this, yeah, this is okay. Well, I'm glad you look forward to those. I'm full of enjoyed them as well. The following is a quote from Terry Pratchett's book, Hat Full of Sky, and it reminds me of how excited I am to get back out into the wide world soon. The quote is, why do you go away so that you can come back so that you can see the place you came from with new eyes and extra colors and the people there see you differently too coming back to where you

started is not the same as never leaving. Ah that's really great. Lovely Gord. Very nice. Thank you so much for that and yeah hopefully you enjoyed those live shows. Yeah hopefully you've now seen the world in a whole different way because of new colors. If you miss those live shows they've already gone out in the podcast, but you can actually see the live shows at sospresents.com. Yeah we filmed them all. For the good ones. For episodes or with our little bonus bits at the end. Yeah good fun and there's other live streams still on there from the past as well. So I think there's 16 video streams you can still buy and if you want your buy, you've got them for good, you've

watched them as many times as you like. Yeah, they'll be a link to that in the show not to be keen. Thank you Julian. Next one comes from Nathan Damon, from Overland Perth. What a guy. What a guy. Nathan's given himself the title, Logistics Manager in charge of transporting the pod to Perth. He's very keen to get us back over. And Nathan, we would love to get there.

Yes, I'm hoping possibly before we get the podcast over there, I'm hoping that I'm gonna get to do my Festival Show over there, talking over a venue over there at the moment. So hopefully I'll have something to tell you about that soon. Anyway, Nathan has given us a fact. Here is his fact. Do go on hasn't appeared in Perth since the 3rd of November 2019. We want you back.

Oh, and also, bring back, listen 2019. We want you back. Oh and also, bring back Listen Now. Oh and love you guys, stay safe. Thank you so much Nathan. Listen now, the podcast I do with my cousin Sam about classic rock albums has been on a pretty long term hiatus. We had booked in a session to record a bunch of episodes and I reckon a day later a lockdown was cool. So it's true I had to put the mods on again. Yeah we I said to Sam by that I mean listen to another Smith Selvuk. So yeah we've got the top 10 to come for as voted by the listeners best 80s rock albums so we're keen to get into them we're just nervous to book in another. So we're keen to get into them.

We're just nervous to book in another day because we're sure that it will bring COVID back to Melbourne. But we should do that. And thanks for reminding us, Nathan. Next one comes from Paul McNally, who I always say. Rand. Rand. Rand McNally.

Which is possibly why Paul has given himself the title of Not a Map. LAUGHTER Random gnarly, which is possibly why Paul is given himself the title of not a map Paul has given us a Fact as well, and here's Paul's fact Okay, I've made the font bigger and it's made it out of the get around all right here we go A group of crows is known as a murder. Crows are very intelligent, and if they find a dead crow from their group, they will analyze the remains in a group

and to see what happened and look for any threats to the group, example cats, hawks, et cetera. Quite literally, a murder, murder investigation. Possibly follow up title for Dave's next book, next book perhaps. Murder, murder investigation. Yeah, what was the last one? Two homicides, one victim.

I written by 12 year old, David James Wanuki. That's available on the Patreon feed. Yeah, that's right, we read through it. That was good fun. The episode's called My Day Road a Poirot. That's a murder mystery. So Paul finishes by saying, hope you're all doing well and that this is a fun, such grim fact all in one.

That is great. I mean, but I also love the idea of the, I don't love the idea, but it brings me, Muth, to imagine this in cartoon form only. Dead Crow, they all gather around to see what's going on. They're like, oh, I think I might be a cat. Wow, it's struck again. Look, it's gonna wait for the danger guys. They had no, no, let's not rush to conglusion.

They keep getting picked up. All right, well, let's examine the new body. Thank you, I can only speak for the grimness of the fact and I'll give that the grim tick of approval Certainly not boring. No not boring at all and finally from Roy Phillips Who's given himself the title of the man who shouts some sheep should sleep in a shed Because I don't read a man's high rate of man people do sometimes trying to fit me up with tongue twister You nailed that nice try Roy. Let's try to throw it

Roy's asked the question and here it is trying to fit me up with tongue twister. You nailed that. Nice try, Roy. Just let's try it through it. Roy's asked a question. And here it is. Is there any topic you guys really want to report on, but don't know if it's got enough legs to fill an episode or have enough broad appeal to win a vote? Hard to answer this one myself, Matt, but I've got some suggestions in Jack McFiddy.

So maybe that counts as my answer. Oh, a good question. A few times, I've put up the Ethiopian marathon runner, a Bebe Bekealer, and it's come second in the vote a couple of times. I'm keen to one day report on him. We got the Olympics coming out next month, maybe, the Olympics special, who knows? Oh yeah, we did an Olympics special a while,

but when I did, I talked about Steve Bradbury. That's right, I spoke about another runner. The trick is a Valkyrie and Guy. I'm just going through, I'm just having a look in the hat saying some of Roy's suggestions. This one sounds fun. Harvey's resort and casino bombing. Oh, I didn't get to the bombing part.

Oh. The fun, I'm like, Harvey's resort and casino bombing. Oh, I didn't get to the bombing part. Oh, the fun. I'm like, Harvey's resort and casino. Oh, oh, the runner was a meal Zatterpick. He was the one that ran the marathon for the first time in one, which was so good. And a baby keelah story is also just as impressive. I'm trying to think other was shorter ones. I've got a list of ones that I'm like, that'll be a good Patreon one, that I just have saved in my phone. But so I don't know if I want to burn through them, you know, out there with you. Here's a few other ones you suggested,

Battle of Gallipoli. I reckon we'll get around to that one. The mounts and hellens eruption have done. Yeah, yeah. And Genghis Khan, I'd be. That'd be great one. Yeah, I'd love to know more about Genghis Khan. Or is that Old Mate Dan Khan says,

Genghis Khan? I'd, I don't know, mate. I think people sometimes asked for me to do one about the Saints' Premiership. And I think I'll, maybe I will one day, but I, yeah, I'm not sure how interesting that story is. I guess I could find an angle that's interesting. And maybe do a bit of a history on the Saints, which could be maybe interesting.

But yeah, that's one that's been in the back of the mind for a long time. Dave, you've got the opposite problem with one you want to do one day, which might have to be a double it. That's what I've talked about it before. It's one of the few ones we've spoken about because usually it is honestly a secret from each other but I've said hey I'd love to do this topic. Yeah well you said it to me because you're like I call dibs on this and that was like two or three years ago. No because I want to do a two part and one listener, you'll find out what it is I swear.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that one as well. Yeah, I guess, yeah, maybe the saints of the one that it comes from on first for me. One of my musicians often think like Nick Cave, I'd like to do a report on him. I don't do that. Yeah, but yeah, also not sure how, I mean, that certainly doesn't have a super wide appeal.

But it could be an interesting story, I think. And that's a good question. Thank you so much for asking that one. I really, yeah, I can't speak for Jess, but I reckon hers would be something about butts. Butt doctor. Butt doctors, yeah. Cheers, Roy.

So thanks for those fact quotes and questions. Roy, Paul, Nathan and Julian, if you're only getting involved in that, the Sydney Shiong Big Level is where you want to go. The next thing we normally do is we thank a few of our other patrons who are on the shout out level. Jess normally comes up with a bit of a game,

but she ducked out real quick. So we didn't get a chance to ask her, and do you have an idea for this, Dave? Well, I mean, they were naming dinosaurs after each other. Yes. For a little bit. Maybe something like that. Okay I'll name a dinosaur. Okay well if I could kick us off I'd love to thank from Chandler. Could they be anymore from Chandler? Surely there's some sort of bingo sore. Bingo sore from Arizona in the United States. It's

Mandy Wright. Talk to Mandy on Twitter sometimes. Mandy right. I reckon yeah, the the biggest source is very good. The biggest source. Could it be any more source. That's good fun. Mandy, I think you got to appreciate that. Come on, man. Come on. Mandy, what were working with you? Come on. Mandy sometimes corrects me on pronunciation. So hopefully I'm saying that right. Oh gosh. Being a source. I mean, we are making it up. We're making it up, come on.

I'd also love to thank from Strath Albany in South Australia, in Australia. Catherine Clough, maybe. Clough sometimes, yes, I think it can go either way this name. So. Well, Cloth maybe. Cloth sometimes yes I think it can go either way this name. So. Well Cloth even. What about the lucky dinosaur called the three, the four leaf clover soros.

But it's about clover soros like four leaf clover soros. That's great. Yeah. You got a pun in there. Is that a pun? I think they're all going to be pun. Okay. Thank you so much, Catherine and your big South Australian dinosaur.

That's probably the biggest one ever discovered in South Australia. That is, yes, huge. And I'd also love to thank from a collingwood in Victoria, not too far from where we are now, Bernard Tugud. What a name. I'm sure you get this a lot burned, but is that your real name? Any relation to Johnny Toogood from Sheehan? Is that his real name?

Or Bonnie Toogood from the Western Bulldog? Oh gosh, Ripon, I ain't burn a Toogood. Burn a Toogood, yeah, that's a great combo. What do you reckon Dave? What about Bernard making something of Bernie, making something of Bernie Torpen, Thorpenosaurus Rex? Oh yeah. That's good.

Great lyricist. But can't play the piano because the hands are so small so they get there for an Alton-Johnosaurus to write the music to their lyrics. Imagine a T-Rex playing piano. Not a T-Rex, a B-Rex. B-Rex playing piano. Not a T-Rex, a B-Rex. B-Rex. B-Rex. B-Rex.

Because we normally, we do nine, so I don't know how we're splitting them up now. I'll do five and you do four. We do four and a half. All right. That sounds fair. All right, I'd also love to thank from great denim in Great Britain.

Josh wear. Josh wear. How much sounds like it's just the full Joshua. Joshua, Joshua, Joshua, Joshua. Joshua. I'm losing my mind. Top of where, top of fresh, keep it fresh. Keep it fresh. Now, Chris, Chris Bessaurus.

Love it. But improve on it. Well, when you're going for it, no, no, no, Chris, let's go with the crisp. Crispin Glover, Glover Saurus. What about something like Glover Dactyl or something? Glover Dactyl, that's it. Glover Dactyl.

Glover Dactyl. Glover Dactyl. Joshua. Joshua. How do we get there? Joshua flying on the Glover Dactyl. Lava Dactyl. Joshua. I'm a Vigilator. How do we get there? Joshua flying on the Lava Dactyl. And finally, slightly mysterious name here. Let me see if I can figure this one out.

Dave, do you want to do a couple while I figure this one out? Yeah, absolutely. I would like to thank from Gizbon in Victoria, Cassie Strachan. Cassie Strachan. Strachan. Strorn. Is it strong with a C-H?

Ooh, I think sometimes. Oh, maybe it is. I would not put my life on. Cassie Strarn. Especially with Mandy Wright listening in. Yeah, oh no. Cassie, let's, uh, Cassie. what am I thinking? Cassie makes me think of... Casserole. Okay, Casserole, Rick roll, Rick.

Cassley. Rick, Cassley. Never gonna give you up. Up. Sky. Sky. Hi. Hi. Doing drugs. Hello. Hello, Hi, doing drugs. Hello. Hello, I'm doing drugs. I'm doing drugs. Coke.

Coca-Cola. Drink your Coke. What have they got? Drink it. And we're back. And we're back. We're back at that though. We got picked as a...

Hi, what about sky? No, it's another flying one. Okay, so it's high in the sky, high in the sky, Richard Griffiths. Harry Potter stepped out. Okay. Are we bad at this without Jesse?

Everyone, they were just trying to. Oh, so it's a flying one. So, teradactyl, work of teradactyl, territailing dactyl. Territailing dactyl! Cassie, do we get there? Thank you so much. Cassie, I've looked at this seems to be the only name we have. No address, but I would love to thank... Fobust Driver.

Fobust Driver. All one word, Fobust Driver. From an unknown location, fortress of the moles, presumably. I would like to have a quick shout out to our new mole overlords. Thank you so much. One day we'll get all the fossils and then we'll just keep digging. Yeah.

So, I mean, a bus, that's, I mean, the size of a bus. What's a dinosaur is because of a bus? Most of them probably. Yeah. What about we haven't had like a triceratop? Triatiratop. But, don't forget the try. I'm thinking about what's the tri version of six?

Double triceratops? Double try, seritops. Double try, seritops. Uno, duet, tray, quadro, chinkwe, say. Say seritops. Say seritops. That's cool. Seritops. Say seritops.

Seritops. We're having fun. Phoebe Bustrava, the say seritops. They're the dinosaurs. I would like to take next up also also presumably from the fortress of the mall. Do you know Phoebe Bustrava? I would like to thank, we don't know where they're from, but it's Jen Wilson. Jen Wilson.

It's a name you could set your watch to. I don't know what that means. Jen Wilson, Wilson, tennis balls, bouncy, bouncy, what's a bouncy one? Raptor. Okay, Raptor, um, rap, uh, no better. I would like to also thank from Altona Meta's in Victoria. It's Daniel Armond. Armond, a little bit nutty. You got the feeling? Daniel Armond? Yes. It's a great name. Is it activator? That's the question. Oh, okay, activator. It's super food. Super food,

super Ted. When he takes off his pajamas. Is he just normal Ted? Who's that? I haven't seen super Ted in a long time. The bag is spotty. Sidekick spotty. Spotasaurus. Spotasaurus is good.

Yeah, it's like a leopard. It's sort of a look, it's got leopard skin, but it looks like a diplodocus. Plotty. It's like a spotty. Spotty, spotty. Spotty, spotty. We got there. We got there.

Daniel Armand. Spotty, spotty. Spotty, spotty. And finally, I would like to thank from Wellington in Great Britain. It is Aaron Filler. Aaron Filler. All killer.

All killer, killer. Which one's kill? What's a killing one? Oh gosh, philosopher loss of raptors are always in the movies in the ones. Yeah, for loss, for loss, for winner, for winner rapper. That's like the unbeatable, the unbeatable raptor. The unbeatable raptor. Aaron Filler is an unbeatable raptor. Hold on. Thank you so much to Aaron Daniel Jen Cassie, Fibas driver, Josh Bernad, B-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d- for three straight years, you get inducted, you get a ticket, you're on the door for the tripditch club, which exists in our hearts, but also in a physical location at the moment Dave, where is it? It's always moving around.

Oh, we are in Morocco. Oh, my goodness, so nice. We are in Fez. We're in Fez. We're all sharing one. We're in Fez. We're all wearing one Fez. We're in F. So, it's only one this week, Dave. So the way this normally works is just will have a little cocktail for, and I mean all the other inductees are still hanging about. So they can still enjoy the drink, Dave, do you want to come up with a drink this week?

Oh, come up with a drink. Who's the band this week? We've got an English rock band T-Rex. Oh, T-Rex, fantastic. Per influential, my fallen. Yes. And what was the one of their songs? Oh, I've got their four UK number one hits.

Hot love. Get it on. Get it on. Get it on. Get it on. Telegram Sam and Metal Guru. Okay, I know get it. Let's call it the Get It On Teeny. Get It On Teeny. Get It On Genetonic.

And it's got gin, it's got tonic, but it's also got a sacred ingredient. Creme. Oh, get on top, which is a print song. It doesn't matter, but it is, there's cream on top, and it's, to be honest, pretty gross, but it's an option as is everything else you want at the bar. So only one inductee this week, Dave. So how we normally do it is, I'm standing there on the door, I've got the guest list, I'll shout out the name and location of our inductee,

Dave, you'll hype them up. Hell yes. And then just normally hype shop, because hyping up takes effort. So I want to lift you up as well. Thank you. But we really just want our inductees to come in feeling good. That's right. It's like a red carpet slash hall of fame induction. Yeah, all that in that. Everyone who's already in stands around and welcomes you in as well.

That clap and... Sadly, that is, I mean, the one part of work that you'll feel once you're in the club is you have to clap the next members. It's a very positive vibe. Yeah, yeah, it's all very supportive. So only one inductee this week, and I believe, they are from Chesterfield

in Montana, M.O. Dave. Montana? Double check that for you, because I got one wrong recently. I said AL for a Laskering was Alabama so I apologize for that it is I'm glad I checked because M.O. is Missouri oh Missouri yeah right cuz that comes so Montana's probably M.T. or M.N. no BMT cuz Minnesota BM and he doesn't not matter all right so from Chesterfield in Missouri, Dave,

what's that seems to quite like about Missouri? That's the flag only has 49 stars. I'll be dead in the cold cold ground before I recognize Missouri. From Chesterfield in Missouri, in the United States, it's Benjamin Ogea or Ogea. Ogea? Ogea.

Benjamin Ogea. More like Benjamin Ogea. Welcomegea? Ogea. Benjamin Ogea. More like Benjamin Ogea. Welcome in, Benny Boy. What a day, have you known it? Yes, thank you. That brings us to the end of the episode. Welcome in, Ben. So nice. That's the first solo inductee we've had in a while. Oh yeah. Go enjoy the music of T-Rex. Get it on. All right. Now, Dave, let's put this baby home. Oh, thanks everyone for listening. Again, if you want to support the show, Alright, now Dave, let's put this baby home.

Thanks everyone for listening. Again, if you want to support the show, you can do that at anytime, patreon.com. So, I'll do go on pod. Over 100 bonus episodes for you to instantly unlock if you support the show. At the same time, have a great time. Well, it's win-win.

I love win-win. I love win-win-win-win. And you can get in contact with us anytime through our social medias at do go on pod or do go on pod at gmail.com And our website of course do go on pod.com. We've also got some merchandise. You want to buy a t-shirt for a loved one? Show that you love them or a hated one. Yeah, that's right. We don't really sink the boots in hey got you something Here's a podcast. You don't know get them there get them their wrong size. Yeah, that'll show them great

Here's an extra large. Yeah, where it to bed? I size. Yeah, that'll show them. Great. Hey, here's an extra large. Yeah, wear it to bed. I know, I know you're only a large. Ha, ha, ha, ha, nice. Got them. Absolutely got them. And yeah, we'll be back next week, which I believe will be our 300th episode.

Whoa. I am Sparta. Am I saying that right? Yeah. Looking forward to sharing that. And after that, you know what? We're not even going to stop there. We're going to keep going.

Whoa. Throw one, throw two. You can't stop one. You can't stop. I don't think Jess is coming back. So I'll do her a normal goodbye. Dave. Team, I'll say thank you so much for listening.

And until next week, goodbye. Later. Bye. listening and until next week, goodbye! Light is... Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Most of you aren't just listening right now. You're driving, cleaning, and even exercising. But what if you could be saving money by switching to Progressive? Drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average, and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts.

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