Do Go On - 299 - The Bone Wars

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

In one of the pettiest feuds we've discussed, this is the story of how two men decided to let their rivalry get in the way of what they had both set out to do - discover a whole bunch of dinosaurs.Get a ticket to our 300th episode live stream, Saturday July 10: https://sospresents.com/programs/dogoon-300th Get a ticket to our show at the Great Australian Podcast Festival on Nov 6: https://www.livenation.com.au/greataustralianpodcastfestivalFor tickets to Matt's Live Taping at Stupid Old Studios: https://www.mattstewartcomedy.com/ Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodBuy tickets for our screening of The Mummy on September 10: https://www.lidocinemas.com.au/mummyBuy tickets to our streamed shows (there are 16 available to watch now! All with exclusive extra sections): https://sospresents.com/authors/dogoon Check out our AACTA nominated web series: http://bit.ly/DGOWebSeries​ Check out Matt’s Beer show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej4TUguJL58 Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-Topic Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. And welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Ornicki, and as always, I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins.

Hello. Hello. Oh. Wow. Difference in energy there. Difference in timbre, which one is it? I don't know. I don't know.

You've started with a real curly one. Well, before we get into the question that kicks off this episode, we can tell you that we are hitting the road all the way to St. Kilda at the Palo. At the Palais Theatre this year in November, we've got the upcoming Great Australian Podcast Festival. We're on November 6th to Saturday night. Fantastic Palais Theatre. Tickets are on sale now. And they're ticking along in the description of this episode

if you want to find the link. Quick fun fact about St Kilda. The team who was originally based there and still called St. Kilda of the Saints, they won their one and only VFL AFL Premiership in 1986. Wow. Another fun fact is I'm going to be taping alive

stand-up comedy show at the Shoeba Dole Studios on July the 29th and I would love you listener to be there. If you're in Melbourne or you can get to Melbourne be so cool to have you there. Tickets fire Matt Stewartcomedy.com. There's two sessions, 630 and 8.30.

I don't know if there's tickets left to the 631, but definitely 8.30 there's still tickets available. Why not come to both if there are tickets still available to the first time? Why not? And 830s? Is that the adults-only session? That's the adults. That's the one where I have.

My pants down. Same jokes, just pants down. Yeah. And, yeah, well, I mean, we film from the waist up, so only people in the room, no. Oh, that's an in-room exclusive. Yeah. I'm also going to be in Adelaide on the 15th of July at the Rhino Room. Tickets for that also at matchewordcom.

Anyway, Dave, enough of that. Let's get on with the show. How does it work again? Well, basically, Matt, we take it in turns to report on a topic often suggested by a listener. And for the 29th time this week, it is, Jess Perkins's turn to give us a report. Matt and I have no idea what she's going to talk about, and to get us on to that topic.

She's now going to ask us a question. My question is, which war occurred over a 20-year period between 1872 and 1892? Oh, the 20-year's war. It was not the 20-year-s war. One of the ball wars. It's not a ball war. What was that?

It's post-crimee in this one. Yeah, oh, it is because I remember that Burke, Robert O'Hara Burke tried to get over in time for the Crimean War in the 1870s or something and he missed it. He misses everything that guy. Imagine missing a war.

Oh, he's here for the war. Shattered. Okay, so post-K Crimean, pre-World War 1. Pre-Bore. Pre-Bore. The pre-Bore War. Is it the pre-Bore War?

Sure. Think about it less as a, you know, military battle. Oh. And think about it, a little clue, is it, think about things that are inside our bodies. Oh, I think I've seen this one in the hat before. Okay, it's the large intestine war. It's not the large intestine wars.

Is it the boner war? It is the bone wars. Oh, I said bone, but I also said er. Do I get the point for that? No. No. You said boner war and you were incorrect. That's the price of comedy.

It is. And Dave, if your boner is inside. you. I think, I think, well, that's good. Well, that's what I tell people. The rest of it's inside me. It's actually really big, but most of it's just inside. It's got deep roots. I think that technically is true. I think it just keeps going in here. It doesn't just, otherwise it would snap off.

It needs to be rude. Anyway, let's not get into the bio mechanics. I guess you're right. I don't want to think about it. No. It is the bone wars. It's been suggested by a bunch of people. I feel like I've seen it, maybe even put up for a vote before, maybe. Well, it didn't win. But I don't know, I don't know anything about it.

It's one of those ones where you see the topic and go, sounds cool, let's see. Yeah. Is it, I feel like dinosaur bones? Maybe. Ooh. Nah, it is. So it's just about a lot of people, including Thomas McKenna, Adil Asker, Koston Espiritu, Eric Mickles, Keith Higgins, Lacey.

Mike Puddy Calam J. Burgess Wiley fucking hell. Kevin Packrad Tom McKenar again. He's stuck in he's just three times. I caught the other one where it was Thomas but he got me with Tom. Jacob Hinkle, Luke Newcomb, Paulita, Barry.

Nellie, Ben, Jonathan Taylor Cance. Hey, Jonathan Taylor Can in my book. Ben Monsma Wow, these are all, I mean, they always are, but this is another great list of names. Emmy and Chris Torres. Wow, I felt like you said every name ever then. Yeah, it felt like that. That was awesome.

It felt like that went forever. I reckon Kevin Packrad might have had the most suggested topics that we've done. Yeah, surely. His name comes up a lot, or used to. So what does that say? Does that say he has good suggestions or he's a basic bitch? He's on our level, that's what he is. Column A, little Column B, as Sophie Shooter would say.

So prior to the 1870s, only nine species of dinosaurs had been discovered and named in the US. Over a 20-year period, from around 1872 to 92, two American paleontologists. Ros Geller? No, but their names are great. Edward Drinker Cope. Sorry, what? Drinker. Cope was an old soft drink brand and they bought his surname for advertising.

Drinker Cope. Headwood, drink a cope When I'm thirsty, I drink a cope When I'm thirsty from all that bone-diggin I like to drink a cope And off-neal Charles Marsh Offneal Othneal

Othneal Charles March Between them discovered 142 new species of dinosaurs Wow, no way All while entangled in a petty and bitter feud This is the Bone Wars. Love it. So a bit of backstory. Edward Drinker Cope was born on 28th of July 1840

in what would now be Philadelphia. And his interest in animals became apparent at a very young age, as did his natural artistic ability. At 12, he attended the Friends Boarding School. Roskella. Near Westchester, Pennsylvania. As a Friends themed boarding school. I did that.

You're going to be in Joey's house. Oh, you're a Phoebe. Surprisingly high RQ we learned recently. Yeah, it was a good road. Yeah. She started science. And according to biographer Jane Davidson, Cope was a bit of a spoiled brat,

frequently writing letters home requesting a larger allowance. His family had a bit of money. Just keep writing more. Dear, mummy and daddy. More. More? Question, more. Yeah, Oliver style.

Please, sir, can I have some more money? Maybe you're wishing to negotiate your salary at work. Honestly, it's the best tactic. Holding out your cap. Yeah, it's still an Oliver impression. Please, sir, can I have some more? Some more slop and cash. Because you get paid with coins thrown into your hat.

Anyway, he offered an opportunity. bad marks due to quarreling and bad conduct, and he developed a reputation of having pretty bad temper. After the summer break in 1855, Cope's father decided not to send his son back to school, but tried to encourage his son to become a gentleman farmer. I'm not sure what that is. Farms, gentlemen.

Yeah. You've got to grow up. Which is tricky because they never shit. So they get the seeds. And you put him in the ground. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Do they grow on a tree or in the ground?

In the ground. So you say I'm sort of coming up from the waist up. Going, oh, say. So dicks were originally roots. Yeah. So the dicks and legs and toes. So they grow dick first. Yeah, dick first.

That makes sense. That's my motto. Sort of scrotum is sort of like a bulb. Yeah. So you plant the scroat. And then the dick grows out of that, which starts sucking in nutrients. And then legs come out with toes. And then the gentleman will grow up from there.

My lord Oh they're blooming From there Fucking hell That's crook So he wanted his son to be a farmer He considered that to be a wholesome profession It would yield enough profit

To lead a comfortable life It was a good job But all along Edward had said He found farming dreadfully boring And wanted to pursue a more professional scientific career. While he worked on farms, he began working part-time

at the Academy of Natural Sciences, reclassifying and cataloging specimen and published his first series of research results in January of 1859. Instead of working the farm that his father bought for him, Edward rented out the land and used that money to fund his scientific endeavours. His dad's like really pushing,

so like, hey, why don't you study these farming subjects? like, I hate these, I hate these farming subjects. He's like, why don't you work on a farm? And he's like, I hate working on a farm. He's like, how about I give you a farm? And he's like, I'm going to rent out that land. Do you know what I was like one of those in the morning pretended to go to work on the farm? He gets up, puts his overalls on and then drives to the lab.

He must have told us. In a tractor. At the end of the day, like when he's like 100 meters from home, he pulls over, rub some dirt on his face, gets back on. God, you would not believe the day I had. On the tractor that I'm on. Me and the cows. I milked him.

Is that we do? I looked at him. Milted a chicken. I brushed him. I think he did tell his dad because eventually his dad just gave in and paid for his university classes. So in 1861, he attended the University of Pennsylvania

and studied comparative anatomy under Joseph Leedy, one of the most influential anatomists and paleontologists at the time. And that name will come up later. What's the name again? Joseph Leedy. Great. I like it.

Leedy. Over the next few years, he had a job recatalogue the herpetological collection at the Academy of Natural Sciences and published many works primarily on reptiles and amphibians. And what is herpetological? A fantastic question, Matt. I don't know. Herpetological.

Herpetological. Herpetological. Use it in a sentence. Hi, I'm doing a bit of herpetological work. Herp. Ehtologist. What was that? A herpetolologist is a zoologist who studies reptiles and...

It's what you sort of said. Reptiles and amphibians such as frogs and salamanders. Many herpetologists, oh God. Nailing it. Focus on conservation of these species. Others use them to assess overall environmental conditions in a particular area. That's from Environmental Science.org. Yeah, I read that I think one of his first major works was on salamanders.

Right. So that makes sense. In 1863 at the age of 23, he went traveling around Europe, visiting museums and meeting highly esteemed scientists. His father sent him off travelling. I think one of the reasons his dad sent him off travelling was that he was like in a relationship with someone his dad didn't approve of and also civil war was happening. So send him off to avoid the draft.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And, you know, I couldn't take your tour. Find yourself. Yeah, 23. You're too young to settle down. Too young. If your parents are telling you, you're too young to settle down, they hate your partner.

I mean, you know, see what's out there. I mean, maybe you should join the war if you get away from her. Yeah, is that the worst thing in the world? Hey, finding who you believe, whichever side that is. If you live through the war, it was meant to be. Yeah, then you can, I guess, see her again if you have to. So while he was in Berlin, that's where he met. Off Neil Charles Marsh, a 32-year-old American who was studying at the University of Berlin.

So he's also American, okay. Yeah, both American. He was born, March was born October 29, 1831 in Lockport, New York. His mother, Mary Gaines Peabody, was a younger sister of wealthy banker and philanthropist George Peabody. Oh, from the Peabody Award. Yeah. His mother died of cholera when he was three years old. Yeah, yeah, genuinely.

Genuinely. Oh, I see. So yeah, George Othniel, sorry, he lost his mother when he was young, but with the financial backing of his uncle, George Peabody, he obtained a very good education. He graduated from Phillips Academy and over in 1856 and Yale College with his Bachelor of Arts degree with honours in 1860. Then he received a Berkeley scholarship from Yale and studied geology, mineralogy and chemistry at Yale's Sheffield

Scientific School from 1860 to 62. Like, he's just studying the halt. He's got many degrees. He studied paleontology and anatomy in Berlin, which is of course where he met Edward Cope. The two became friends, exchanging letters and discussing paleontology, and even named species after each

other. Isn't that nice? So there's like a drinker cope, asora. Cope named an amphibian fossil Pyotonius marshy? And was it like the lamest one? Is it they already having goes at each other?

Not yet. Not yet. I think they're being nice. The one must have a stick. Oh, look, I found your one. Found your great-great-grandfather. Yeah, you're only two generations separated from this thing. Your little prick.

So is Drinker his middle name? Yeah. Drinker? Drinker. There you go. Incredible. Yeah, baffling. Marsh returned the favour

naming a giant marine creature Mossosaurus copanus it's copanus That's good Yeah I think they are pretty different personalities And like Marsh is sort of like

He's wealthy because of his uncle But very very educated But cope is more of like The gentleman But not as educated So I think they kind of They look down on each other For different things

So they sort of, for the first few years, they're like, they send letters back and forth. They're discussing things and, like, it seems fairly friendly, but I think it's a little bit of a love, hate. Upon his return to the United States in 1866, Marsh was appointed professor of vertebrae paleontology at Yale University, making him the first professor of paleontology in the US. That's in 1866. First Professor of Paleontology. That's kind of cool. When his uncle, George Peabody, passed away.

Otheneal inherited $100,000 and this money was put towards his scientific work, and he and his many fossil hunters, incredible job title, were able to uncover about 500 new species of fossil animals. Wow. 500. Yeah, essentially it's like they have people,

they kind of send out to various places wherever, yeah, somebody finds a fossil in one area, area and just like heaps of people arrive and start digging and finding stuff. It's like a bone rush. Yeah, yeah, big time. I have one of those. It's probably like 13 to 18. Oh, good.

I can't stand up for the next four to six minutes. Very specific. I love that. And so, yeah, they'd find fossils, send them back to these paleontologists who have their qualifications, the education in identifying what stuff is and or figuring out what it came from. They were pretty loose at the time though, weren't they? Because I think they had to undo some of the work from the old days where like I know the triceratops. There were certain animals where different people would find fossils, but they were just like a young tricephotops say and an older one,

which is a lot bigger. Yeah. And two people would call them two different species. And then they had to like start combining a few of those in recent time. 100% this. Oh, right. They're finding the same things. They're finding stuff that's already been found 10 years earlier. They're naming it their own thing.

It's not just them, but these two are the fucking worst at it. So that, yeah, they're putting, they're just whatever bones they find, they're just making it work. It's like having, it's like having puzzle pieces from three different puzzles. And they're like, that's all that is. Just because they're in a rush to like find the next thing and to have more finds than the other person. So a lot.

So that 142. number I said it's like 30 of those are a valid. They're just making shit up. So they're making it out like merging all these. The rest of them and they've just pulled out the glue gun and just gone

a bit here, bit here. Yeah, this one has legs coming out of its head and its butt. Yeah. Call a butt leg. It's a buttleggosaurus. So that's another one for me. Tick.

It's wild. Yeah, this is a one butt legosaurus. This one's a two buttlegasaurus. I've got heapsed three buttlegasaurus. Yeah, I got. I could go all day with my buttosaurus. But only went to four. Started running out of room on the butt, just the legs.

So Cope, on the other hand, became a professor of zoology at Haverford College. But only after his family connections got him an honorary master's degree so that he could get the job. Right, because he's sort of self-taught in a way. Yeah, he doesn't, like he's done some university classes. I don't think he has like a full qualification. But his family's quite wealthy. Right. And he worked in a lab from a very young age.

Yeah, pretty young, yeah. So, yeah, they gave him an honorary degree just so that he could actually have the job as a professor of zoology. Feels like you should probably actually learn, but that's fine. And he also worked for the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia. And over the next few years, both men continued their work with an almost obsessive nature. Cope got married and had a daughter. And while the family lived very comfortably, his main concern was for more money to spend on his scientific work.

When I say comfortably, they had like a nice house with servants. Like they had staff and they were fine. They were very, very, they were well off. It's a funny addiction. Need more cash. Support my habit. Yeah. What's your habit?

Science. Yeah. Got to find more fossils. Got to find them fossils. You never get the thriller that you get for the first discovery. Chasing the dragon. Yeah. Well, I'm literally trying to find a dragon's fossil.

Have you seen one? I'll pay good money for it. Don't give it to Marsh! There's a lot of that too. The 1870s were the golden years of Cope's career, marked by his most prominent discoveries and rapid flow of publications. In the period of one year, from 1879 to 1880, Cope published 76 papers based on his travels through New Mexico.

Mexico and Colorado, and on the findings of his collectors in Texas, Kansas, Oregon, Colorado, Wyoming and Utah. So he's got people spread out. Right. Seventy-six papers in like a year or two. In a year. Seventy-six papers. How is he doing that? Do you think any of them are good? Oh, yeah.

Do you think they're thought out? Yeah, I reckon they're great. They're pretty sick. You're right. They're great. He was churning out so much work that many errors occurred, and several of his sons. scientific names were later cancelled or withdrawn. Sort of what we were talking about before.

Like he's kind of, he's just sort of, I don't know, it feels like he's rushing into stuff really quickly just to like churn the work out, just to be prolific for prolific's sake. Yeah, he's a quantity over quality kind of guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect. So he's churning a lot out and it's, he's not always the most accurate. But Marsh, on the other hand, wrote far less than cope, but to a much wider audience,

often appearing in the popular American Journal of Science, which led to his reputation growing much faster. Oh, interesting. So he's kind of, he's quality. Right, and that's working. Interesting. It's so interesting, isn't it? Yeah.

That's how that works. We should try quality sometime. Nah. Now, back to fart jokes. On one occasion... That's funny. That is funny. That is funny.

That's a good one That's funny On one occasion The two scientists had gone on a fossil collecting expedition together To Coep's milestone pit in New Jersey So Coop takes Marsh to like one of his sites He's like, come on down We'll go dig for fossils together

It'll be real cute At the end of the expedition Like it's all amicable But Marsh Secretly bribed the pit operators to send any future fossils to him and not to cope. That's poor form. Oh, no.

That's poor form from Marsh. That's a real dog ever. He invited him to his pit. If you're a guest in someone's pit, you don't behave that way. How do you behave? Well, in a much more gentlemanly way. Firstly, you don't shit. Never shit in the pit.

Never shit in the pit. Secondly, you just don't steal fossils. That's almost a blanket rule for me. never steal fossils. Really? But is the shit in a pit always A bleak the rule? Well, fossils are often shit, aren't they?

There you go. So, rule applies to both. Yeah. Today's shit, tomorrow's fossil. That's what I say every time I flush. One man's shit's another man's fossil. That'd be a diamond one day. If I understand science.

Congratulations. Yeah, I believe that's how it works. So this obviously didn't go down very well. The two begin to attack each other in papers they publish. And they already rocky relationship only deteriorated further. In 1867, Bones were found in Fort Wallace, Kansas,

which Cope examined over a few years, naming it Elasmosaurus platyurus. It was a big deal. Elasmosaurus was the first major fossil discovery in Kansas and the largest there from there at the time, and it marked the beginning of a fossil collecting rush that sent thousands of fossils from Kansas to prominent museums on the American East Coast.

So it was a big deal that they'd found this big dinosaur. It was like a big aquatic plesiosaure. It had flippers, four flippers and a really long neck. How many butt legs? It had four butt flippers. Whoa. Yeah. That would be a fast swimmer.

Big muscles of the butt. Oh, yeah. And a fast pooper. Can't I just fan them out. Where to go? No one knows. No one knows. But when the Elasmosaurus was on display,

so he's like, he's got it on display, everybody's looking at it going, wow, look at this new thing, you found. Sick. In Walk's Marsh, who takes one look at it and casually tells Cope that he's put the head on the wrong end. He's like, he put the head on the butt. He's like, hey, cool dinosaur man, you put the head on the butt. That's where the term butthead came from. Oh no.

Cope, the one with the temper. cracks it and the two are arguing for some time and then they decide to get Joseph Leady Cope's mentor to come and examine the bones and decide once and for all who is correct. Once in for all, where's the butt and where's the head?

So Lady comes down, picks up the head of the fossil, puts it at the other end. Oh, he's right. Leady also concluded that Elasmosaurus was identical to discosaurus, a plesiosaur he had named in 1851. So it was the same as something that already existed.

Discosaw. Discosaurus. How good is that? Ticada do, do. Um, Cope was... Dika do, do. Sorry, I just imagine myself in a silent disco. Sandstorm's playing.

Sick. That's just you every now and then to see you along? You're rightfully called me out on it. I appreciate it. No, you know, otherwise, if you don't have checks and balances, you don't have, if you don't have checks and balances, get away with anything. Every now and then I'm in a silent disco and then I wake up and I'm back in reality. Oh, how do you have you been there?

But you wake up and you've still got those fluoro sticks. Yes. Threaded between your fingers. How do they get close sticks? Yeah. How do they get there? You've still got pink. is in your pockets.

Yeah. Do you do. What's going on? Where am I? Am I at disco? Is my butt in my head? Is my head in my butt? He put it at the wrong end.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I'm retiring that day. Look, I had to go. It's all over. Yeah, you've argued with the other guy for hours about it. You brought him the expert. You are basically putting your entire career on whether he's going to move the head or not. And as soon as he does, you go, thanks very much.

much I'm out. And it's funny that he didn't say it. No, it's the wrong. And he went over. He picked up the head and he put it at the other end. Just to make it really slow and painful as well. Yeah. He's picking up.

Is he going to just readjust the... No, he's walking over to the other end. Oh, is he going to... This is a fake out? There's a little, there's a polite crowd in there. He puts it down. So uncommonly. He picks up the head.

Exams it. Exams it. He's dusted it off. He's taking a few strides to the other end of the torso. Oh, he's putting it down here. He's putting it down on the neck. The neck is where the head belonged in the end. That is a game set match.

Not on the butt. Fantastic. Fantastic bonework there. I've never seen a credit play. Fantastic bone work. That's why he is the best. He's the bone master. We've always said that.

We've always said that about Joseph Leedy. The Bone Master General Another fantastic play So Cope is absolutely mortified Mainly because he had already published a paper On the Fossil with the error At the American Philosophical Society Published a paper

The paper has the head on the butt And it's called the wrong thing Yes So he tries I'm picturing it like fully drawn You know they'll use CGI or whatever To show what the dinosaurs might have looked like It's clearly a butt with a head coming out of it.

Magnificent beast. I don't know how he didn't see it. It ate where it's shit. It was efficient. They were much more efficient than us back then. I call it devolution. We have devolved. So he tries to buy back all the copies of his paper.

Which is awful. But he couldn't get them all back. Can you guess who may be? had a copy and wasn't willing to give it up. No. Dog. What a dog. He invited him to his pit. Yeah, Marsh has it. So does Leedy. Leady I read.

I forgot to, I didn't write it down in the end, but Cope kind of tried to like cover it up. Like he didn't admit that he was wrong. He just tried to like get all those papers back and then just republish the correct way. Yeah. So Leedy kind of called him out on it. Yeah, because he'd already found. that person. Yeah, and I think that he was more in sense that, like, you haven't just admitted you were wrong.

It's okay to be wrong. You just haven't admitted that you were incorrect. He wanted to teach him a lesson. Yeah. He was like a mentor to him, so it makes sense. So Cope and Marsh, they're done now. Any chance of being abacable is over. You know, like you teach a dog?

I don't know if they still do this, by putting the dog's face in their mess. Yeah. How much easier would that have been for these dinosaurs? And it seems like they probably enjoyed it. Yeah, that's right. So, yeah, it would be easy to sort of tip them over slightly. You don't sure where you eat?

They do. Don't eat when you shit. It's like, it probably doesn't matter which order that is in. They always found that expression pretty offensive. Well, be nice if I didn't have to. So, yeah, they're done. There's no chance of them rekindling any kind of friendship. and from now on they are just openly hostile towards one another.

What followed is just decades of pettiness and sabotage. In 1877, Marsh received a letter from Arthur Lakes, a school teacher in Golden, Colorado. Lakes had been hiking in the mountains near the town of Morrison with his friend looking for fossilized leaves in the Dakota sandstone. Instead, the pair found large bones embedded in the rock. Lake sent Marsh the bulk of the bones but also sent some to cope

Not really sure why I don't think he necessarily knew about the rivalry It's probably just more like If you know Send it out a bit and whoever bites You'll probably get paid for it So he's you know Send it out to a couple of big names

Marsh published his findings And paid Lakes $100 And Lakes thought he'd better let Cope know That he should probably send the bones That he had to Marsh As it's kind of his discovery now Marsh has already published his story stuff so you send those bones over.

Cope didn't like that. Marsh didn't like that Lakes had sent any of the bones to Cope in the first place. So they're just pissed off all the time. Another time Marsh heard about a vast bone yard in Como Bluff, Wyoming and sent one of his guys down to be in charge of the digging.

Cope learns of this and sends his own guy down. And they just try to sabotage each other the whole time. Both men tried to spy on the other's whereabouts and attempted to offer their collectors more money in the hopes of recruiting them to their own side. So they're trying to poach each other's collectors as well. Cope was actually, he was able to do it. He recruited a couple of men from

Marsh, David Baldwin in New Mexico and Frank Williston in Wyoming. So he stole a couple of his people. They were really secretive and paranoid, never wanting to reveal the source of their fossils in case the other one found out and sabotaged them. So they won't talk to anybody about it. They don't even publish their findings anymore. It's just all the secret. So the paleontological digs lasted 15 years from 77 to 92. And the workers for both Cope and Marsh suffered hardships related to the weather, as well as the sabotage and obstruction by the other scientist workers.

So many of these workers are good friends with each other, and they're pitted against each other and sent to spy and sabotage on their former friends. Yeah, that sounds like a toxic workplace. Yeah. Full espionage style, you don't know who to trust. Especially if you're poaching someone, well, if you're able to poach them, maybe they'll poach you back. Yeah, can you be a double agent?

Yeah, there were a couple of instances where, like, people who had worked for Marsh went out on digs with cope and Marsh got really paranoid about it. And they were like, no, we're still your people. So it was really confusing as to like, are they spying or are they just, needing work, so they're just working where the work is, which is pretty reasonable. It's very strange. Doesn't sound like they'd be treated reasonably, though. No.

Oh, you're going to work for him now, are you? Okay. Well, I'm going to kill your family. Sorry, what? What? Well, I'm a freelancer. I just do whatever work I can get. I literally just digger.

I'm a digger. I've got a big shovel. I know how to use it. I don't care. I got a big shovel and I know how to use it. Oh! Woo! Must be nice.

The two men, Cooper Marsh were so protective of their digging sites that they would often destroy smaller or damaged fossils to prevent them from falling into their rival's hands. They're destroying fossils? Yes. If it's small or damaged, blow it up. Oh my God, they started, this is something they started out

with the love of the foss. And now they're blowing up those. Just so that the other one doesn't get it. But it's like if it's worth them getting, why don't you just hold on to it? Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. No, it's stupid. Really, it's got a bit of the feel of that biblical story where the king goes, which of you,

if you both want this baby, well, I'm going to cut it in half, you each have half. Or even the Seinfeld episode where they say, if you both want this bike, I'll cut it in half. And then I think Kramer goes, no, no, no, I'd prefer a lot. lane to have it then to cut it out Newman's like if I'm remembering this right Kramer you've shown that you love this bike the most you can keep the bike

it's a great way to test people yeah I think that one yeah they would also so yeah they'd blow up or they'd destroy smaller fossils sometimes they would just fill in their excavation sites with dirt

and rocks again to make it harder for somebody else to come along and dig there. So it sounds like based on that story, the Kramer and the bike, neither of them deserve these fossils. They're both willing to blow them up and sabotage. It's strange. Yeah. They used to have their eyes on the prize and now it's all about jealousy and stuff.

It's sad to see. It is so sad. On one occasion, which I thought was something that was maybe a bit exaggerated for the episode of Drunk History I watched on this. But it seems it's true. I'm glad you did some deep research. I was like, hmm. And then Cope started drinking like six shots of bourbon.

And then Cope said, anyway, you shut up. No, but it seems that it is true. The rival teams one time fought each other by throwing stones. He just had a stone fight. And then they actually threw fossils. Like pits quite close to each other, just throwing rocks at each other. They invented trench warfare.

It's so stupid. And it wasn't just dig sites that they would try to sabotage. They also tried their best to ruin each other's professional credibility. But it's like, okay, we're sabotaging the sites. You're kind of already doing that. Cope's habit of churning out half-baked papers gave Marsh plenty of opportunity to point out errors and publicly criticize Cope. He'd just be like, wrong, no.

Poor Cove. How was he dealing with it all? He turned into a real drinker. By the 1880s, Marsh had used his connections to be appointed chief paleontologist for the USGC, which is the US Geological Society, headed by John Wesley Powell. He was also elected head of the National Academy of Science. And which end did they put the head? With his new power and federal funds at his disposal,

Marsh began cutting cope off from guns. government funding. He succeeded in... Denied, denied, denied. Absolutely. So, Cope's influence was dwindling, as was his family fortune. So he invested in silver mines, which were profitable for a couple of years, but the mine stopped producing, and by 1886 he had to give up his now worthless stock. So he's kind of lost everything. He's got no money. But it gets worse. Oh, no. Cool. He's lost everything.

but it gets worse. It gets worse, but it gets better. Okay. It's a bit of a roller coaster for both of them over the next few years. So Marsh got a law passed that said all fossils collected with the help of government funding now belong to the Smithsonian. This was an outrage to cope who had used his own money while working as a volunteer. Marsh had included a clause saying this included scientists who had accompanied government expeditions at their own expense. So he's essentially just saying anything cope has is ours now.

Mine. Anything you have, mine. Give it to me. So it wasn't even subtle. It was so obvious. And that was like a law that was an actor that worked on the pass. Like grandfathered or whatever they say. That's stiff.

But I mean also fair enough. I was thinking you're digging stuff out of the ground. That should be everybody's stuff. Yeah, okay. Give it to me. I want that too. I want it. Give me that gentleman.

That freshly dug up gentleman. We should all have a go. Like I get the dinosaur bones on Monday. Matt gets a Tuesday. Yes. Wednesday. It just cycles through. What about Saturday?

Yeah. What about Sunday? Yeah. What about Sunday? Simpson's reference, Jess? You got that one? No, I don't get that one. I was like when they bought

Issue 1 of Radioactive Man? Oh, yeah. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Mill House. Yep. Homer, can you check on the boys? They're fine. They're just tearing each other apart.

What about Sundays? So this, starts a whole new war because Cope had something that Marsh didn't realize he had. A little something up his sleeve. What's he got? Cope had kept an elaborate journal of mistakes and misdeeds that both Marsh and Powell had committed over the years. Oh, love it.

He had evidence. From scientific errors to publishing mistakes, he had them all written down in his little journal. A little black book. A shit list. Yeah. He took this journal to the New York Herald and the first article ran on January 12, 1890. apparently riddled with mistakes, spelling errors.

The journalist, not the best, but it put the info out there. Kind of. It would become a series of newspaper debates between Marsh, Powell and Cope. Why didn't the newspaper do a spell check? A fantastic question, Matt. A fantastic question. Cope attacked Marsh for plagiarism and financial mismanagement and attacked Powell for his geological classification errors

and misspending of the government allocated funds. They had like a bit of a rebuttal, but no investigation occurred into Powell's alleged misallocation of funds, but the bad press did put pressure on Powell to remove Marsh from his position. So I guess Cope kind of got his way because he got Marsh booted. Oh, wow. So Marsh loses his position of power, and Cope begins to slowly get back on his feet.

After Joseph Leedy died, Cope took over his position as professor of zoology at the University of Pennsylvania. and the wage from that proved to be enough for the family to move back into their home that they'd have they'd had to vacate a couple of years earlier. They sort of lost their home and then got it back. Did you find yourself siding with one of the guys in the reading? I think you do side a little more with Cope, but he's not great either. Right.

Like they're both and I think, I hope I included it somewhere in here, but somebody talking about them in reflection later, it was like they both, Did a lot more damage by like blowing shit up and destroying things just out of pettiness. Takes a long time to build a fossil and then to blow it up. It's like, well, that's freaking hell. Yeah. Great. Come on.

You know how long it took me to get that? Oh, come on, boys. It's millions of years, right? Millions of years? You know what I sound that right? It's like ages. Jeez. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cope sold his collection to the American Museum of Natural History in 1895. I don't know exactly what happened when Marsh had that rule of like everything you've collected send to us. It seems like obviously that didn't really happen because Cope still had quite a massive collection, which he sold. He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sent it all in. He had about 10,000 American fossils of mammals. 10,000 American fossils.

He said that fun. Sorry. He said it in a fun way. He had 10,000 American fossils. That sounds like a lot. 10,000, yeah. It's heaps. Sold for $32,000.

I don't have $10,000 anything. Dollars? Carried the two. Maybe if I sold that. Borrowed some dad. Maybe I might have to liquefy some assets. So you're getting three bucks apart for these things. Yeah, it's not great, is it?

It was lower than he's asking price of $50,000. He sold three other collections for $29,000. But even though he had quite a lot of staff, like he had a collection of more than 13,000 specimens. His fossil horde was still much smaller than Marsh's collection, valued it over a million dollars. Whoa, whoa. Because Marsh just had... Three bucks each, that's shitload.

That's like... More, two million plus. Marsh just had a lot more money, like, fairly consistently through his life, it seemed. They both at different stages, like, lost everything. Right. Because they just kept spending so much on this. That does seem like a thing that happens with people who are addicted to, you know, like being the best at something or especially in business that they'll lose their fortune a couple of times.

I guess it's, you know, bound to happen and then they'll risk it all again and build it up. It's wild. Yeah. Wild way to live. Sounds stressful. I was just thinking that. It sounds, it doesn't sound like a fun life. when you're so angry at somebody else

who just loves the same thing you do. And you're screwing people over it. Like you can't do that without screwing over lots of people. Yeah. So I'm bankrupt now, so I'm writing off all that debt. Yeah. Oh, cool. I was kind of relying on that money.

Sorry. Their rivalry... Have some fossil? Fossil. $10,000 American fossil? Yeah, their rivalry... was throughout their whole lives, through the ups and downs they both faced. They both achieved a lot and both had times of financial ruin and personal hardship, like I mentioned.

Judging by pure numbers, Marsh won the Bone Wars. Both scientists made fines of immense scientific value, but while Cope discovered a total of 56 new dinosaur species, Marsh discovered 80. In the later stages of the bone wars, 80. 80. And that's like after they took away all the leg butts. I'm not 100% sure.

Yeah, I don't know. Cheers. Because that's still, that's a lot. But I guess early days, because I was surprised, I read that not too long ago, that I was surprised how recent, you know, humans discovered dinosaurs. Yeah. It was like, was it in the 7,800s or something? I think so.

It was like relatively recently. Yeah. Makes sense that when you're there early, you're going to be able to find more. Find a lot of it, yeah. The biggest one in Australia has discovered recently. Really? Yeah. You would have seen that at work.

Yeah, yeah, it was big. It's like... Thank you for another. That's why people tune in. It was really big, guys. All right. Another spot-on contribution from Dave Walker. I can't remember where it was.

I can't remember where it was. Let me... When you finish, Jess, I'll find an article to sort of summarise the new thing. Okay, cool. In the latest stages of the Bone Wars, Marsh simply had more men and more money at his disposal.

than Cope did. That's what I was talking about before. He just had more cash. Cope also had a much broader set of paleontological interests. Marsh was kind of, he was more interested in reptiles and mammals. Coep was kind of interested in everything. So I think they were looking for different things. But anyway, from Wikipedia, this is a really good thing that kind of sums them up a little bit.

Wikipedia.org.org. Dotorg. Yes. It's a new website that I'm really fond of. Wow. Despite their advances, the bone wars also had a negative effect not only on the two scientists, but also on their peers and the entire field. The public animosity between Copa Marsh harmed the reputation of American paleontology in Europe for decades. Gave them all a bad name. Furthermore, the reported use of dynamite and sabotage by employees of both men may have destroyed or buried hundreds of potentially critical fossil remains. How stupid! Is there a difference between dynamite and dino, Mark?

Dainal, mate. Joseph Leedy abandoned his more methodical... So selfish. I know. Joseph Leedy abandoned his more methodical excavations in the West, finding he could not keep up with Cope and Marsh's reckless searching for bones. So they sort of deterred other people. In their haste to outdo each other,

Cope and Marsh haphazardly assembled the bones of their own discoveries. Their descriptions of new species, based on their reconstructions, led to confusion and misconceptions that lasted for decades after. their deaths. Oh gosh. So yeah, they just kind of go, well, I've got this, this and this. We'll just, that must be all together. And it's like, nah, they could be different things that you've found.

That's funny. It's a bit odd. Cope suffered ill health in his final years, dying in April of 1897 at the age of 56. Cope insisted through his will that no graveside service or burial be held. He donated

his body to science. He issued a final challenge to Math. Marsh at his death. What's the fun? He had his skull donated to science so his brain could be measured. Oh, yeah. Hoping his brain would be larger than Marshes. At the time, brain size was thought to be the true measurement of intelligence.

That's so funny. That is the worst example of a pissing contest I've ever heard of. Who's got the bigger brain? And neither of them ever know. The younger one dies first and says, Well, measure my brain, Marsh, we'll see. And Marsh was like, nah, fuck that. And Marsh died a couple of years later, and they never measured.

So it was all pointless. But yeah, he never accepted the challenge. Yeah, that's exactly what a small brain person would do. Cope's skull is reportedly still preserved at the University of Pennsylvania. His ashes were placed at the Institute with those of Joseph Leedy, while his bones were extracted and kept in a lot. locked draw to be studied by anatomy students so he donated his body to the university

to be studied. And his ashes rather than being buried with his family was buried with his professor. Yes. Okay. It's a normal professor's student relationship. Obviously all your uni tutors. I'm sure you'll be buried alongside them one day. Yeah, obviously. I don't, I can't name a single uni tutor I had.

Yeah, neither. No. I can picture like one face. Yeah. Jeez, that's bad. That's bad, isn't it? Obviously, Mife were centuries ago. Yeah, true.

You're also mostly now locked in boxes around the countries, their bones. So, yeah, Marsh died in 1899, a couple years after Cope at the age of 67, finally ending their feud. We'll never know who had the bigger brain. But that is, yeah, that is the story of the bone wars. I tried to focus on like the dumb stuff they did and and kind of why. There's like, there's more information that goes into a lot more detail about some stuff. But honestly, it was really hard to follow because I'm not a paleontologist.

And I figure you, you the listener are not a paleontologist. We should have got David Swimmer on this episode. Yes. Yes. We should have, damn it. I feel like a fool. Hey, great report. Jess.

I've heard the term the bone walls before, but I never knew what it was about. Yeah, me. I had seen it in the hat, but never really looked into it, but it's a bit of fun. I think I definitely pictured it to be more of like a traditional battle. Yes. But this is maybe more fun. So here's an article from BBC.com says scientists say new dinosaur species in Australia, largest, sorry.

Scientists say new dinosaur species is largest found in Australia. Scientists in Australia have classified a new species of dinosaurs discovered in 2007 is the largest ever found on the continent. It shows how long it takes from finding to, like, getting it all together. Back in the day, it seems like he discovered something, then 11 hours later, something was published about it. I imagine rules were probably written up because of the way they behaved. Yeah.

The Astrolotitan, Cooperensis, or the Southern Titan, is among the 15 largest dinosaurs found worldwide. Experts said that the Titanosaur would, have been up to 6.5 metres or 21 feet tall and 30 metres long. Whoa. As long as a basketball court. Its skeleton was first discovered on a farm in southwest Queensland. Paleontologists had worked over the past decade to identify the dinosaur,

distinguishing it from other known species by comparing scans of its bones to those of other sauropods. So there's a whole system now. Yeah. You can't just go, no, I found a new one. They've got to do a decade of work making sure that it's not. That's cool. Soropods were plan-eating dinosaurs known for their size.

They had small heads, very long necks, long tails and thick pillar-like legs. These dinosaurs roamed the continent during the Cretaceous period about 92 to 96 million years ago. Wow. The team of researchers had nicknamed the dinosaur Cooper, while working on it after the nearby Cooper Creek where it was found. Cooper Creek? Is that from Birken Wells? I think it was. Maybe?

Maybe. Yeah. Had they missed this? The biggest dinosaur? Fucking hell, guys. They honestly could... You know, the dig tree was probably like just next to it. Dig here.

No, dig here. Have you seen... Does that article have an animation of what they think the dinosaurs look like? Yeah, it looks sick. How thick is that neck? It's cute. What about the ABC's... Look how cute.

It looks like a little dog. It's so smiling. Hello, how I are. They're little plant eating. They wouldn't hurt. could be on a kids TV show. Hello! That's great.

That's great. Real cute. A great report there, Jess. That was very interesting. Thank you. Jess, fantastic. I loved hearing about it. Thank you.

I paused so you could compliment me as well. I realised that too late. Now it's time for everyone's favourite section of the show where we thank some of our fantastic supporters on patreon.com slash dogo on pod and dogoonpod.com. And yeah, these people keep this show running because of them. We're able to do it every week, every Wednesday for nearly 300 episodes. We've put out one every week. And that's with thanks to these fantastic supporters.

Honestly, without you, we can't keep it going. You keep the bloody lights on. And more importantly, the mic's on. Do these mics need power? Yeah, without you, it's just 300 weeks of two people yelling, three people, I should say, we've just lost Jess, yelling in a room. So there's heaps of different rewards you can get on those websites. if you support the show, depending on the level,

bonus episodes, there's a Facebook group, all sorts of things, weekly newsletters, blah, blah, blah. But one of the big ones is the fact quote or questions section, which I think has a little jingle that goes something like this. He always remembers the ding. That was very good Jess in person.

Jess has had to run after fight her own bone war, so she may be back. We'll see. And the way this works is people send in a fact, a quote, or a question. if they're subscribed on the Sydney Shineburg Deluxe Memorial edition level

rest in peace and you get to give us a fact to quote a question. You also get to give yourself a title. I'll read out four, read them out for the first time on the show. Here we go. Julian Barnes,

whose title is, I'm hungry, has given us a quote. And Julian's quote is, I'm hungry. Hi, hungry. Julian's quote, is, hey guys, so looking forward to your upcoming live shows.

When did you write this? He wrote this. Six years ago. In March. Okay, so this, yeah, this is, okay. Well, I'm glad you looked forward to those. Hopefully you enjoyed them as well. The following is a quote from Terry Pratchett's book,

Hatful of Sky, and it reminds me of how excited I am to get back out into the wide world soon. The quote is, Why do you go away so that you can come back? so that you can see the place you came from with new eyes and extra colours and the people there see you differently too. Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. Ah, that's really great. It's a lovely quote.

It's very, very nice. Thank you so much for that. And yeah, hopefully you enjoyed those live shows. Yeah, hopefully you've now see the world in a whole different way. With new colours. Because of our live shows. If you miss those live shows, they've already been. on out in the podcast feed, but you can actually see the live shows at sOS presents.com.

Yeah, we filmed them all for the bigger ones. Four episodes or with a little bonus bits at the end. Yeah, good fun. And there's other live streams still on there from the past as well. So I think there's 16 video streams you can still buy. And if you, once you buy them, you know, you've gone for good. You can watch them as many times as you like. Yeah.

There'll be a link to that in the show notes if you can. Thank you, Julian. Next one comes from Nathan Damon from over in Perth. What a guy. Nathan has given himself the title, Logistics Manager in charge of transporting the pod to Perth. He's very keen to get us back over. And Nathan, we would love to get there.

Yes, I'm hoping, possibly before we get the podcast over there, I'm hoping that I'm going to get to do my festival show over there, talking to a venue over there at the moment. So hopefully I'll have something to tell you about that soon. Anyway, Nathan has given us a fact. Here is his fact. Do go on. Hasn't appeared in Perth since the 3rd of November 2019.

We want you back. Oh, and also bring back Listen Now. Oh, and love you guys. Stay safe. Thank you so much, Nathan. Listen now. The podcast will do with my cousin Sam about classic rock albums. Has been on a pretty long-term hiatus.

We booked in a session to record a bunch of episodes. And I reckon a day later a lockdown was called. You're just too worried to put the moz on again? Yeah, I said to Sam. How about that? I mean, listen to another Smith's album. The Moss. So, yeah, we've got the top 10 to come, as voted by the listeners,

best 80s rock albums. So we're keen to get into them. We're just nervous to book it another date because we're sure that it will bring COVID back to Melbourne. But we should do that. And thanks for reminding us, Nay. Nathan. Next one comes from Paul McNally, who I always say. Rand.

Rand. Rand. Which is possibly why Paul has given himself the title of Not a Map. Paul has given us a fact as well. And here is Paul's fact. Okay. I've made the font bigger. And it's made it harder to get around. All right, here we go. A group of crows is known as a murder.

Crows are very intelligent, and if they find a dead crow from their group, they will analyse the remains in a group to see what happened and look for any threats to the group. Example, cats, hawks, etc. Quite literally, a murder, murder, investigation. Possible follow-up title for Dave's next book, perhaps. Murder, murder investigation? Yeah, what was the last one was called? Two homicides, one victim.

written by 12 year old David James Warnocky And that's available on the Patreon feed Yeah that's right We read through it That was good fun The episode's called My Dave wrote a Poirot

I know because it is a murder mystery So Paul finishes by saying Hope you're all doing well And that this is a fun slash grim fact all in one That is great I mean but I also love the idea of the I don't love the idea

but it brings me mirth to imagine this in cartoon form only. Dead Crow, they all gather around to see what's going on. They're like, oh, I think it might be a cat. Ram! It's struck again. Like, you know, get away from the danger, guys. No, no, let's not rush to conclusion. They keep getting picked off.

All right, well, let's examine the new body. Thank you very. I can only speak for the grimness of the fact, and I'll give that the grim tick of approval. Certainly not boring. No, not boring at all. And finally, from Roy Phillips, who's given himself the title of, The Man Who Shouts, Some Sheep Should Sleep in a Shed. Because I don't read them out until I read them out.

People do sometimes trying to put me up with tongue twists. You nailed that. Nice try Roy. Let's try it through it. Roy's asked a question. And here it is. Is there any topic you guys really want to report on, but don't know if it's got enough legs to fill an episode

or have enough broad appeal to win a vote? hard to answer this one myself Matt but I've got some suggestions in Jack McFiddy so maybe that counts as my answer oh good question a few times I've put up the Ethiopian marathon runner Abebe Bekela and it's come second in the vote a couple of times I'm keen to one day report on him we've got the Olympics coming out next month maybe Olympic special who knows oh yeah we did an Olympic special a while but when I did I talked about Steve Bradbury. That's right.

I spoke about another runner, the Czechoslovakian guy. I'm just going through, I'm just having a look in the hat seeing some Arroy's suggestions. This one sounds fun. Harvey's Resort and Casino bombing.

Oh, I didn't get to the bombing part. Oh. It doesn't have fun. I'm like, Harvey's Resort and Casino. Oh. The runner was Emil Zatopec. They was the one that ran the marathon for the first time and won,

which was so good. Hectic. And Abebe Bebe Beki story is also just as impressive. I'm trying to think other shorter ones. I've got a list of ones that I'm like, that would be a good Patreon one that I just have saved in my phone.

So I don't know if I want to burn through them, you know, out loud with you. Here's a few other ones he suggested, Battle of Gallipoli. I reckon we'll get around to that one. The Mounts and Helen's eruption have done. Yeah, yeah.

And Genghis Khan. That'd be a great one. Yeah, I'd love to know more about Genghis Khan. Or is that old mate Dan Carl and says, Jenghis Khan? I'd, um, I don't know, mate. I think people sometimes asked for me to do one about the Saints

Premiership. And I think maybe I will one day, but I, yeah, I'm not sure how interesting that story is. I guess I could find an angle that's interesting. And maybe do a bit of a, a bit of a history on the Saints, which could be maybe interesting. Yeah, that's one that's been in the back of the mind for a long time.

Dave, you've got the opposite problem with one you want to do one day, which might have to be a double episode. That's why we've talked about it before. It's one of the few ones we've spoken about, because usually it is honestly a secret from each other. But I've said, hey, I'd love to do this topic. Yeah, well, you said it to me because you're like, I call dibs on this. And that was like two or three years ago.

I know, because I want to do a two-parter. And one day, listener, you'll find out what it is, I swear. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that one as well. Yeah, I guess, yeah, maybe the Saints is the one that comes to mine first for me. One, the musicians I often think, like Nick Cave, I'd like to do a report on him. I love to hear that. Yeah, but, yeah, also not sure how, I mean, that certainly doesn't have a super wide appeal. But it could be an interesting story, I think.

And that's a good question. Thank you so much for asking that one. I really Yeah, I can't speak for Jess But I reckon hers would be something about butts Buttuckers, yeah Cheers Roy, so thanks for those fact quotes and questions Roy, Paul, Nathan and Julian

Now if you're going to get involved in that The Sydney-Schenberg level is where you want to go The next thing we normally do is we thank a few of our other patrons Who are on the shout-out level Jess normally comes up with a bit of a game But she ducked out real quick So we didn't get a chance to ask her on Do you have an idea for this Dave?

Well, I mean, they were naming dinosaurs after each other. Yes. For a little bit. Maybe something like that. I'd go and name a dinosaur. Okay. Well, if I could kick us off, I'd love to thank from Chandler.

Could they be any more from Chandler? Charlie, there's some sort of Bingasaur. From Arizona. In the United States, it's Mandy Wright. Talk to Mandy on Twitter sometimes. Mandy Wright. I reckon, yeah, the Bingosaurus is very good. The Bingosaurus.

Could it Bing Anymore Soros? that's good fun Mandy, I think you've got to appreciate that. Come on, man. Come on. Mandy. What we're working with you. Mandy sometimes corrects me on pronunciation. So, hopefully I'm saying that right.

Oh, gosh. Bingosaurus. I mean, we are making it up. We're making it up. Come on. I'd also love to thank from Strath Albion in South Australia. In Australia. In Australia. Catherine Clough.

Catherine Cloth, maybe? Clough sometimes. Yes, I think it can go. by the way, this name. What, clough even? What about a lucky dinosaur called the

four-leaf clovisaurus. But it's spelled clophosaurus, that's great. Yeah. You got a pun in there. Is that a pun? I think they're all going to be pun. Okay.

Thank you so much. Catherine and your big South Australian dinosaur. That's probably the biggest one ever discovered in South Australia. That is, yes, huge. And I'd also love to thank from Collingwood in Victoria. Not too far from where we are now.

Bernard Too Good. What a name. I'm sure you get this a lot, Ben, but is that your real name? Any relation to Johnny Too Good from Sheehad? Is that his real name? Or Bonnie Too Good from the Western Bulldogs? Oh gosh. Ripper name.

Bernard Too Good. Bernard Too Good. Yeah, that's a great combo. What do you reckon, Dave? What about Bernard makes me think of? Bernie makes me think of Bernie Torpen

Torpennosaurus Rex Oh yeah That's good Great lyricist But can't play the piano Because the hands are so small So they get their friend Alton Johnosaurus

To write the music To their lyrics Imagine a T-Rex Playing piano Not a T-Rex A B-Rex Because we normally We do nine

So I don't know how we're splitting them up now I'll do five And you do four You do four and a half That sounds fair All right I'd also love to thank

From Great Denham In Great Britain Joshua Joshua Oh this sounds like It's just the full Joshua Joshua Joshua

Joshua Joshua Joshua Joshua Joshua I'm losing my mind Where tupper Tupper tupper Fresh Keep it fresh Keep it fresh snap

Crisp Crisposaurus Love it. But improve on it. Well, when you're going, no, no, no, crisp. Let's go with a crisp. Crisp and Glover. Gloversaurus.

What about like something like Gloverdactyl or something? Gloverdactyl. Love that. Gloverdactyl. Gloverdactyl. Josh Ware. How do we get there? Josh Ware flying on the Gloverdactyl.

And finally, slightly mysterious name here. Let me see if I can figure this one out. Dave, do you want to do a couple while I figure this one out? Yeah, absolutely. I would like to thank from Gisbon in Victoria, Cassie Stracken. Cassie Strachan. Strachan?

Is it Strawn with a CH? Oh, I think sometimes. Oh, maybe it is. I would not put my life on. Cassie Strawn. Especially with Mandy Wright listening in. Oh, I know. So, Cassie, let's, uh, Cassie, what am I thinking of Cassie makes me think of?

Casserol. Casarole. Casserol, Rick Roll, Rick. Astley. Rick Astley. Never going to give you up. Up. Sky.

Sky. Clouds. Hi. Hi. Hi. Doing drugs. Hello. Hello.

I'm doing drugs. I'm doing drugs. Coke. Coca-Cola. Drink a copa What are the guys And we're back And we're back

We're back at that though We got back to the stuff High, what of it's sky Well no, it's another flying one Okay Okay So it's high in the sky Pie in the sky

Richard Griffiths Harry Potter stepped out Okay Are we bad? at this without Jess? I think we're just trying to do it. So it's a flying one. So terradactyl, we're going of

terradactyl. Terry tailing dactyl. It's a terry tailing dactyl. Cassie, do we get there? Thank you so much, Cassie. I've looked at this seems to be the only name we have. And no address, but I would love to thank faux bus driver. Foe bus driver.

All one word. Fosue bus driver. From an unknown location, Fortress of the Moles, presumably. I would like to say a quick shout out to our new mole overlords. Thank you so much. Well, one day we'll get all the fossils and then we'll just keep digging. Yeah. So, I mean, with a bus, I mean, the size of a bus, what's a dinosaur as big as a bus?

Most of them, probably. Yeah. What about we haven't had like a triceratops? Triceratop. But forget the try. I'm thinking about what's, what? What's the try version of six? Double try serotops?

Double try, six. Uno duetre, quatro, chinkue, say. Say serotops. Say seratops. That's cool. Serotops. Say serotops. Serotops.

We're having fun. Phoebe bus driver, the saycerotops of the dinosaurs. I would like to thank next up also, presumably from the fortress of the mole. Do you know Phoebe bus driver? I would like to thank we don't know where they're from, but it's Jen Wilson.

Jen Wilson. That's a name you could set your watch to. I don't know what that means. Jen Wilson, Wilson, tennis balls, bouncy, bouncy, what's a bouncy one? Raptor. Okay, Raptor.

Rap. Hip hopter. The hip hopter's pretty good. The hip hopter. Jen Wilson, the hip hopter. Jen Wilson, hip hopter. Hey, take that, Jen.

Hey, no bad answer here. I would like to also thank from Altona Meadows in Victoria. It's Daniel Armand. Armand, a little bit muddy. You get the feeling? Daniel Armand. Yes. It's a great name.

Is it activated? That's the question. Oh, okay. Activated. It's super food. Super food. Super Ted. When he takes off his pajamas.

Is he just normal Ted? Is that it? I haven't seen Super Ted in a long time. The bag, is spotty, sidekick, spotis, Spottosaurus. Spottosaurus is good. Yeah, it's like a leopard. It's sort of a look, it's got leopard skin, but it looks like a diplodocus. Plotty.

It's like a spotty, spotty, ploddy. Spotty, ploddy. Spotty, ploddy. Spotty, ploddy. We got there, Daniel Armand. Spotty, ploddy, ploddy. And finally, I would like to thank from Wellington in Great Britain. It is Aaron Filler.

Aaron Filler. All killer. All killer. Which one's kill? What's a killing one? Oh gosh. Velociraptors are always in the movies. They're the ones.

Yeah. Velocer. Loza. The winner. The winner. That's right. That's like the unbeatable. The unbeatable raptor.

The unbeatable raptor. Aaron Filler is an unbeatable raptor. Well done. Thank you so much to Aaron, Daniel, Jen. Cassie, Fee bus driver, Josh, Bernard, Catherine. And Mandy. And the last thing we need to do, Dave, is induct some people into our Triptage Club.

So if you're involved on the shoutout level for three straight years, you get inducted. You get a ticket. You're on the door for the Triptage Club, which exists in our hearts. But also on a physical location at the moment, Dave, where is it? It's always moving around. We are in Morocco. Morocco, beautiful spot. Oh, my goodness.

So nice. We are in Fez. We're in Fez. Yeah. We're all sharing one of Fesies. We're all wearing one fess We're in fess So it's only one this week Dave

So the way this normally works Is Jess will have a little cocktail And I mean all the other inductees are still hanging about So they can still enjoy the drink Dave Do you want to come up with a drink this week? Oh come up with a drink Who's the band this week? We've got an English rock band T-Rex

Oh T-Rex fantastic Very influential Mark Bowlen Yes And what was the one of their songs? I've got their four UK number one hits, Hot Love. Get it on. Get it on. Telegram Sam and Metal Guru.

Okay. And I get it all. Let's call it the Get It On teeny. Get it on teeny. Get it on gin and tonic. And it's got gin. It's got tonic, but it's also got a secret ingredient. cream.

Get on top, which is a print song. It doesn't matter, but it is, there's cream on top. And it's, to be honest, pretty gross. But it's an option, as is everything else you want at the bar. So only one inductee this week, Dave. So how we normally do it is, I'm sitting there on the door. I've got the guest list. I'll shout out the name and location of our inductee.

Dave, you'll hype them up. Hell yes. And then just normally hyped you up because hyping up takes effort. So I want to lift you up as well. Thank you. But we really just want our inductees to come in feeling good. That's right. It's like a red carpet slash hall of fame induction.

Yeah. Imagine that. Everyone who's already in stands around and welcomes you in as well. They're clapping. Sadly, that is, I mean, the one part of work that you'll feel once you're in the club is you have to clap the next members. It's a very positive vibe. Yeah, yeah. It's all very supportive.

So only one inductee this week. and I believe they are from Chesterfield in Montana. M.O. Dave? Montana? Double check that for you because I got one wrong recently. I said AL for Alaska and it was Alabama. So I apologize for that.

I'm glad I checked because M.O. is Missouri. Oh, Missouri. Yeah, right, because that comes. So Montana's probably M.T. or MN. No, it would be MT because Minnesota would be M. And it doesn't matter. All right.

So from Chesterfield in Missouri. Dave, what's that Simpson quote you like about Missouri? That's the flag only has 49 stars. I'll be dead in the cold, cold ground, before I recognize Missouri. From Chesterfield in Missouri, in the United States, it's Benjamin Ogea or Ogea. Ogeier. Ogear? Benjamin Ogeier.

More like Benjamin, oh yeah. Welcome in, Benny Boy. What on, Dave, you nailed it. Yes, thank you. That brings us to the end of the episode. Welcome in, Ben. So nice. That's the first solo inductee we've had in a while.

Hell yeah. Go enjoy the music of T-Rex. Get it off. All right. Now, Dave, let's boot this baby home. Thanks, everyone for listening. Again, if you want to support the show, you can do that at any time. Patreon.com slash do go on pod.

Over 100 bonus episodes for you to instantly unlock if you support the show. At the same time, have a great time. Wow, it's win-win. It's win-win. It's win-win. I love a win-win. And you can get in contact with us any time through our social media is at Do Go On Pod or Do Go On Pod at Gmail at Gmail.

dot com and our website of course do go onpod.com we've also got some merchandise want to buy a t-shirt for a loved one show that you love them or a hated one yeah that's right we don't really sink the boots in hey got you something here's a podcast you don't know get them their wrong size yeah that'll show them

hey here's an extra large yeah wear it to bed I know you're only a large nice got them absolutely got them and yeah we'll be back next week which I believe will be our 300th episode. I am Sparta. Am I saying that right? Yeah.

Looking forward to sharing that. And after that, you know what? We're not even going to stop there. We're going to keep going. Whoa. 301, 3 or 2. Can't start one. Stop.

I don't think Jess is coming back, so I'll do her normal goodbye. Dave. Team, I'll say thank you so much for listening. And until next week, goodbye. Later's. Bye. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when

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