Two In The Think Tank - 313 - The Assassination of JFK

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

Part two in our mini series on US President John F. Kennedy, on this episode we look at the last 24 hours of his life, his assassination in Dallas and its the aftermath as well as the many conspiracies tied to his death. Was Lee Harvey Oswald the lone shooter that day? Or were there other forces at play?Get tickets to our Chrish-Mish live show (or add your name to thewait list as more tickets will be released soon when restrictions are lifted)https://tccinc.sales.ticketsearch.com/sales/salesevent/16186 Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: dogoonpod.com or patreon.com/DoGoOnPod Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-Topic Stream our 300th episode with extra quiz (and 16 other episodes with bonus content): https://sospresents.com/authors/dogoon Check out our AACTA nominated web series: http://bit.ly/DGOWebSeries​ For tickets to Matt's Live Shows: https://www.mattstewartcomedy.com/ Check out Matt’s Beer show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej4TUguJL58 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Just jumping in really quickly at the start of today's episode to tell you about some upcoming opportunities to see us live in the flesh. And you can see us live at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival 2024. We are doing three live podcasts on Sundays at 3.30 at Basement Comedy Club, April 7, 14 and 21. You can get tickets at dogo1pod.com. Matt, you're also doing some shows around the country. That's right. I'm doing shows with Saren Jayamana, who's been on the show before. We're going to be in Perth in January, Adelaide in February, Melbourne through the festival in April, and then Brisbane after that. I'm also doing Who Knew It's in Perth and Adelaide. Details for all that stuff at mattstuartcomedy.com.

We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On.

My name is Dave Warnke and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart and you better believe Jess Perkins. Hey Dave, hey Jess, happy block. Oh man, we are midway through block kind of. Yeah. In the traditional block sense but this block being double the length we are a quarter of the way through. Can you believe it, a quarter of the way through already that's some quick maths everybody impressed i did that because we're doing eight episodes i finally figured out how how many we're doing we're doing eight so this is the i mean i already knew but i hadn't counted them all and i also didn't really want to give away before we were doing the double episode. But so this is the JFK's the sixth most popular topic and John Wayne Gacy was the seventh. So we've got five more topics to come that were even more popular than these two.

So why are you even, why are you listening to this shit? Not even in the top six or five. But, yeah, so this is following on from last week's episode where Dave talked about the life of JFK. I'm guessing this episode is going to be called The Death of JFK? Yeah, death, assassination, something like that. A lot of spoilers early. Jesus.

Some of us purposefully didn't look at his bloody Wikipedia page, hoping for a bit of a twist. Well, I mean, we are setting you up for a twist because he's back. He's actually a special guest. Hello. Thanks for having me on the podcast. Great to have you here, JFK. My one question was what university did you go to?

There's been a bit of confusion. I went to Harvard and Chode. I went to Chode Prep School, I think. It's a long time ago. But I definitely went to Harvard. Harvard. Harvard. Harvard.

That sounds more like JFK. I drove my car to Harvard. Car keys to Harvard. I drove my car keys to Harvard. With my brother Barbie. God, I'm good at this. Put another shrimp on the Barbie. So things that I remember from last week, Dave,

you might want to do a recap, but I'll do a quick one. Thank you. Prep school was called Chode. Yeah. He was a war hero for services to dog paddle. Which I don't mean to diminish that. It was a fucking sick story. And he became the president, the second youngest ever or youngest ever elected president of the United States.

What a guy. What a life. You're forgetting that his dad, real piece of shit. Oh, his dad was such a piece of shit. Massive piece of shit. Ginormous turd. If it makes you feel bad, he piece of shit. Oh, his dad was such a piece of shit. Massive piece of shit. Ginormous turd. If it makes you feel better, he's alive in this episode but I don't really talk about him.

So he's just in the background. That doesn't make me feel better because he's alive. Does this make you feel any better, Jess? I can't remember his name. Me either. Dave, do not tell us. You do not tell us. Okay, I won't even though I have got it written here in my intro.

I want to forget. Blank that name as you say it, Dave. Beep it yourself. I should also say best character of part one, Eunice. Big time. What a legend. Love her name, love her energy, love her vibe, love her style. Yes.

Eunice, what's her surname? Kennedy. Eunice Kennedy. Absoluteice, what's her surname? Kennedy. Eunice Kennedy, absolute badass. What's her surname? Eunice Kennedy, no relation. All right, well, let's kick into it. As you said last week, if you want to listen to that, you can listen to this episode without hearing that. I'm going to give you a little summary, but if you want to go back, it wasn't epic and we've covered a lot. We've had a few people already tweet in saying that they learnt stuff about JFfk they didn't know so maybe it's worth checking out part one

but here is part two starting with a previously on the life of jfk love that love a previously on love it so we spoke about john f kennedy a boy born into the privilege of a very wealthy and politically active irish catholic family one of children, his father, beep, Kennedy... Thank you. ..pushed all of his children to compete and achieve, and after John's older brother died, he became the great source of hope for his father. After a childhood wracked with illness and a pain

that would follow him through his entire life, John, called Jack by his friends and family, went to Harvard. Harvard. Thank you. He became a World War II hero in the Navy before being elected to the US House of Representatives and then the Senate. Finally, after hardcore campaigning and millions spent by his father, John F. Kennedy was elected as President of the United States at just 43 years old.

After hardcore campaigning. Hardcore. And his middle initial, you told us, was Fitzgerald. That's right. Good trivia thing. Hey, Dave, is this a real quote or am I mixing it out with someone else? Something like, Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy. You, sir, know Jack Kennedy.

Is that a real thing? It doesn't ring a bell for me, but it doesn't mean that it's not real. I'm pretty sure you know everything. So that means it's not real. Does that not, that doesn't ring a bell to you, Jesse? There might be something else. It's probably, like, from Star Wars, and it's actually, I knew Darth Vader, and you, sir, I know Darth Vader.

No, it doesn't ring a bell to me either, I'm sorry. And, you know, I love to back you up where I can, but sometimes you get frustrated at us for not knowing references of things. I don't get frustrated. I just normally assume they didn't happen. Sometimes when I get bored I make up my own movie in my head. So Jack was at the helm during what most historians credit as being the closest the world has ever come to full-blown nuclear war during the Cuban

Missile Crisis. And by 1963, where we sort of left off, he was already on the campaign trail to get re-elected in 1964. So we are up to date there. And despite his fame and popularity amongst a lot of Americans, being re-elected was by no means a foregone conclusion during this time. At the end of 1963, the president was focused on shoring up his own team because there was a lot of friction in his own Democratic Party. Looking at Texas during this time, liberals of the party, Ralph Yarbrough and Don Yarbrough, were openly clashing with conservative Texas Governor John Connolly.

Texas had been very important in the previous election where JFK had narrowly won, and he worried that if Texas Democrats weren't all pulling together for the 1964 election, Kennedy might well lose its precious electoral college votes and thus lose the election. There's quite a few there in Texas, isn't there? Yeah, because it's such a big state, lots of votes to be won, lots of college votes to be gotten. And if you can't get these two sides of the party that are actively in the media haven't taken pot shots at each other, if you can't get them to come together, he's worried that people will not go for them at all. On November 21st, 1963,

JFK and his wife, Jackie Kennedy, were scheduled to leave the White House for a two-day tour of Texas. They let the Secret Service know that their two-year-old son, John Jr., was to accompany them on the presidential helicopter Marine One. I think it's actually Joe Juju. John Jr. Jr. When they got to the airport to get on Air Force One and went to say goodbye to John Juju, they said, we'll see you when we get back, and he began to cry because he wanted to go with them on Air Force One. They told him, don't worry, we'll be back to celebrate

your third birthday on Monday in four days. We'll see you then. Sadly, that would be the last time the boy ever saw his dad. Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. Oh, that would be the last time the boy ever saw his dad. Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. Oh, my God. What happened? His dad went to get milk and he hasn't been seen since.

Hey, I found this quote. It's got its own Wikipedia page, would you believe? That's unbelievable. Its headline is, Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy. It says, Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy was a remark made during the 1988, you two weren't even born then, 1988 United States Vice Presidential debate by Democratic Vice Presidential candidate Senator Lloyd Benston to Republican Vice Presidential candidate Senator Dan Quayle

in response to Quayle's mentioning the name of John F. Kennedy. Since then, the words, you're no Jack Kennedy, or some variation of the remark, have become part of the political lexicon. Never heard it. Jess and I are just not au fait with the lexicon. Yeah. And that's on us.

Well, it looks like it's a three-parter. So maybe, Dave, later you can play Tom Brokaw. three-parter. So maybe Dave later, you can play Tom Brocore. Obby, Quayle and Jess, you can be Benston. I really wanted to be Brocore. Okay, you can be Brocore.

You're the one with the journalism degree. Thank you. Makes sense that you'd play Brocore. And who am I? Am I no Jack Kennedy? Or am I Jack Kennedy? You are my understudy and you will not be required today. Oh, okay. Thank you so much. I will be playing all the parts.

But I still have to know the script just in case. Just in case. In case I, you know, sprain an ankle or something. The full line is, Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy. Oh, that's a good line.

Cop that. Yeah, that's good. No recovering from that, is there? Nah. And that's why none of us have heard of whatever that guy's name was. Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy, that's right. Check my birth certificate.

I literally am Jack Kennedy. Sir, you're no Jack Kennedy. Him at the passport office. This happens everywhere I go. It is exhausting. Oh, my God. My parents just didn't know anything about politics. They decided to call me Jack.

I'm just trying to pick up a parcel. The postie left a card in my letterbox saying they tried to deliver it. I'm just here to pick it up. I think it's underwear. I don't know. Oh, come on. I'm desperate. I'm down to my last last pair i just need my fresh undies these ones are inside out as it is please oh so jack and jackie kennedy the real one not the fake ones i never put that together jack and jackie oh yeah

i legit thought when i was writing the report last week that jess would either love it or hate it wasn't sure which way but then it never came up. But there was a third option, didn't notice it. Yeah. Didn't notice because I don't think of him as a Jack, but, yeah, if all his family and friends call him Jack, she probably called him Jack. Yeah, she did. And she's Jackie.

That sucks. That would honestly be a factor in deciding if I was going to date someone. Right. Yeah, because Jess is a common boy's name as well yeah and i just couldn't make it happen right i do have an uncle michael and his wife michelle oh yeah so they're mick and michelle that's relatively far apart my dad paul once dated a Paula, which would have been pretty hectic. Yeah. I wonder if obviously it would be a bigger issue in same-sex couples because much more commonly have similar names.

Yeah, that's true. And Jess being an incredibly common name, from like a 10-year period, it was the number one name. Whoa. So that sort of narrows the dating pool for you if you have a real basic bitch name. How many Jesses do you have to knock back, like perfect match in every other way?

Yeah. Like unfortunately. I'm so sorry, I can't get past the name. I'm not going to be Jessie's girl. And just the joke you'd get every time. Oh, no love is worth that. Some gentle chiding. No love is worth a chide.

No, I won't do it. That showed, maybe. The Kennedys did it. It's unbelievable. Yeah, see, that's, man, that's real love. I also never noticed that either. Yeah. We just don't think of him as Jack.

Is this the Kennedy curse? This is what started it. Two people with the same name falling in love. I'm so sorry I interrupted for something so petty. Honestly, I thought it would come up earlier, so I'm glad we finally addressed it. I'm so sorry I was so slow. On the record.

So Jack and Jackie. Ugh. Off to Texas. Jackie had never accompanied her husband on a domestic trip like this before, so kind of amazing that this is the one that she goes on. Anyway, but really she was the president's secret weapon. Everything I watched or read about this period in history,

they all agreed on one thing and it's hard for us to fathom in the 21st century now just how popular Jackie Kennedy was in the early 1960s. She was without a doubt one of the most famous people on the planet and although her husband was liked by many, nearly everyone, regardless of political persuasion, liked Jackie Kennedy. She was a superstar apparently. Wow.

Because she was, you know, she had the fame of being in this couple but not the sort of the politics attached to it. So Republicans that hated John Kennedy still liked Jackie Kennedy. She's the me of this podcast. Yeah, honestly, yes. I think it was pretty similar with Ivanka Trump or whatever his wife was. Is that his daughter or his wife? I couldn't think of any other First Ladies.

I didn't even think of one First Lady. Oh, it is his wife. She's so popular. I think Ivanka, very similar. It was like Princess Di was like that to Charles probably, although it's not necessarily political, but it was like, you know, like became like, you know, Hollywood sort of level celebrity. Yeah.

I honestly think it's a similar level of fame and like hysteria around when she turns up to events. People are just obsessed with seeing her to the point that if JFK was making an appearance, his team would expect 100,000 people to come out. If Jackie was there too, expectations doubled to 200,000. Wow. Oh, he would have, I don't know, would he have hated that? No, he basically said, can you please come to Texas?

It's really important that I win this. If you come, more people will come see me and I've got more of a chance of winning this. And she went, no. So he took it differently from Charles, at least according to the crown. He didn't take it well on the crown. But still also it's for their own gain, you know. Why not just be happy for her?

Frequently he would joke about it too. So he made lots of humour about it. Like he'd turn up to an event, like when he went to Paris, he said something like, it's great to be here in Paris accompanying my wife on this presidential tour because people didn't really want to see him. As soon as she got up there, they were like, I forgot he was even there. Thank you for joining us, Jackie's husband. They give him a little chair to sit on in the corner.

We'll let you know when we're done hanging out with Jackie. He's the president. Why is the chair little? It's funny. They didn't have any more big boy chairs. They gave him a kid's chair. Jackie's using all the big chairs. Yeah, Jackie's got all the big chairs.

He's got her feet up. She's relaxing. She's chilling. Fuck, she's cool. They yell at him, hey, don chair. She's relaxing. She's chilling. Fuck, she's cool. They yell at him, hey, don't touch Jackie's chair. That's a spare one in case she needs it. I'm the president. Yeah, whatever, mate.

Whatever. We're all the president of something. Yeah, president of your chess club or something. Shut up, square. But Jackie was actually a bit nervous about travelling to the south of America, a place that had been marred by clashes over civil rights. She asked Clint Hill, the secret service agent assigned to protect her, if it was a risky trip and if she should go along. And he explained there was no intelligence to

suggest that there was any indication of a threat in Texas more than any other area of the south. What are you laughing at? I thought you were going to say there is no intelligence in Texas. Don't even worry about it. I wouldn't be worried. They would not be able to formulate an attack if they wanted to. That's where I thought that sentence was going. It seems like it was actually quite a well-thought-out sentence. Or he shut her down.

Mrs Kennedy, there is no intelligence in what you're saying. I'll just stop you right there. So she puts his finger in her mouth. Basically saying it's just as dangerous here as anywhere else in the South at the moment. Let's not worry too much. That's fair. The first day was spent in San Antonio, Houston and Fort Worth. So they went to three cities in one day. It was a full-on schedule and I mean full-on. Every minute was accounted for, which is annoying for the people keeping track because basically JFK would see a crowd and he'd be like, oh, let's pull over here. Or there'd be kids on the side of a highway they're driving down.

He'd see a sign saying, please shake my hand, JFK, and he'd get the Secret Service to pull over. Then they'd have to go over, suss it out, then he'd go over and they're like, we're on a tight schedule here, Jack, come on. So the Secret Service are going over, all right, I'll take the handshake first just to make sure it's safe. What have you got? What have you got?

Make sure that hand isn't too sticky, too clammy. Hopefully it's firm. Yeah. You're making eye contact. Eye contact, yeah. If you give a limp fish, they will put you in the back of the car and arrest you. But people were waiting for the presidential couple

everywhere they went. Thousands were at the airport and lined the streets desperate to get a glimpse or maybe even a handshake, like I said, from the famous couple. On that first day, they did five separate motorcades where they just drove along parade routes. Do you have to have the windows down in a motorcade or are you in like the back of cars?

This is back in convertible days, isn't it? Yeah, this is in convertibles. So the weather was pretty good on that day and they were in the back of a convertible. So it's not like you could be in a limo and people are just excited to see the limo go by and you could just have your feet up and eat snacks. Yeah, yeah. Because that's my kind of day.

So we got to the point where Jackie put on sunglasses and her husband said, hey, take this off. People want to see your eyes. You're really working. She can't even wear sunglasses. No. Yeah, squint. Squint at the people.

Be uncomfortable. Even when they landed in Fort Worth at 11pm at night, thousands had waited to see them in the dark. They didn't have electricity back then turn the lights on you bloody goofs well all the electricity was powering the fort worth buildings that they'd illuminated to welcome the couple into the city people put in extra effort like this everywhere they went it was a big big deal for people to come honestly we talk about it a lot in the past not much was happening including the including the Hotel Texas where they spent their last night together.

Separate bedrooms had been prepared and artwork had been shipped in to spruce up the suite. It became its own little art gallery, including a Picasso statue of an owl, probably a tribute to Kennedy's owl-like father, and a Van Gogh painting. They had all this art in there. Sorry, Dave. It's actually Van, and a Van Gogh painting. They had all this art in there. Sorry, Dave, it's actually Van Gogh. Van Gogh.

Thank you. How embarrassing, Dave. Van Gogh. Van Gogh. I'm pretty sure he went to Chard University, is that correct? I believe so. I once saw someone actually do that to someone. It's actually Van Gogh, which I don't even know if it's necessarily true,

but it is funny to see people correct people on things that really matter. I would love to see this in the form of a tweet. It's actually. Yeah. Spelled phonetically. So it's actually a word that's derived from Klingon, so you actually have to say that. I have to cut out your tongue for you to pronounce it properly.

Sit still. So they had all this artwork around them, which I thought was just an interesting tidbit on their last night together. They even had a little brochure that had been printed, especially explaining all the artworks to the couple. Oh, man. That's like, that's too much, but interesting. Interesting they shipped it all in.

I'd love to see some Texan artwork displayed. Yeah, I think there was a couple of local artists, but to be honest, I didn't recognise their names. Willie Nelson? Yes. Performing live in their lounge room. Wow. That's cool.

Stay weird or whatever the saying is in Austin. They awoke on Friday, November 22, 1963, and it was an overcast morning shrouded in drizzle. This didn't stop another crowd gathering from the early hours in front of the hotel. JFK came out quite early in the morning and gave them a speech about the importance of their city, saying, Fort Worth's been a great city of the West.

That's what he said. After again shaking everyone's hands and getting in amongst the crowd, the president went inside and addressed yet another crowd, a packed breakfast ballroom. After his final address, he was given a 10-gallon hat for something to protect him from the rain, a bit of a local present, and not wanting to mess up his hair when the crowd chanted,

put it on, put it on, put it on. He joked, I'll put it on in the White House on Monday. If you come up, you'll get a chance to see it then. Bit of fun. Hey. Well, that's also very sad. Yeah, I suppose. It is sad because that wasn't true.

Yeah. His hair always looked bulletproof to me, like yours, Dave. I don't feel like hat hair is possible with you or JFK. Tragically for JFK, his hair was not bulletproof, and I have evidence of that coming up very soon. Oh, Dave, no. Oh, no. Dave, I knew Jack Kennedy's hair, and your hair is no Jack Kennedy.

But honestly, no, it is. I'd say ballpark. Thank you so much. Well, from there they went to the Fort Worth Air Base for their massive, and I mean massive, 13-minute flight to Dallas. What do you do on a flight that long? And they didn't have Nintendo Switch back then. How much of a drive is that saving?

Yeah. Well, apparently the idea is they could easily drive there, but they chose to fly in by Air Force One to get another massive arrival. Right. Because big arrivals made the local news and they wanted as much media coverage as possible. Gotcha. They basically went up in the air and just came straight back down.

Apparently that morning John opened up the Dallas Morning News and saw a full-page ad that was anti-JFK, and he said to Jackie, we're heading into nut country today. She asked what he meant by that, and he said, some people don't like us here, but he did not seem concerned. He thought it was a bit funny. But many did like them. Again, thousands of people awaited their arrival on the tarmac. The weather by this time had turned into a beautiful sunny day, blue skies all around, a great day for a top-down motorcade. Now in the front of the motorcade was a group of police motorcycles, then there was the pilot car, then more motorcycles, then the lead car, very important, then the presidential limousine which

was flanked by four motorcycles in line with a rear tire. Then there's the follow-up car with Secret Service agents balancing up on the outside. Then the vice president's car with Lyndon B. Johnson, then another Secret Service car, and then more cars with press and photographers, and then a couple of buses, and then more motorcycles at the end. So it was a really long motorcade. Yeah, the start to end of it would take a while. Yeah, and the whole time you're waving going, that's not them, that's not them, that's not them.

This is embarrassing. I'm just waving at some cops. Yeah, waving at cops. Hello, Jerry. I know that one. That's my friend Jerry. Hi, Jerry. Hi, Jerry.

Jerry, don't wave back. It's unprofessional. Oh, Jerry, no, he's wobbling on his motorbike because he waved at me. Gerry got the wobbles. Oh, there Gerry goes. That's embarrassing. That was the real tragedy of the day. Gerry took a tumble on his motorbike.

Luckily they were going quite slow and he was fine. So John F. Kennedy's presidential limousine on the day was a 1961 Ford Lincoln. It was midnight blue and an unarmoured convertible. So these days the limo has a roof and has all this bulletproof, bombproof armour and glass, but at this time it's just basically a normal car with the top down. And a lot of that probably happened because of this. Honestly, yes. It had

two sections of roof that could be taken off, sort of these plastic bits, and because of the beautiful weather and in order to see the crowd, both parts were taken off for this part in Dallas, meaning it had no roof whatsoever. It's been speculated that despite not being armoured, if the roof had been on that day, it would have been next to impossible for a sniper to get a good kill shot, so to speak. So one of those things in hindsight. The car had three rows. JFK and Jackie were in the back seats. Then in the middle row in what's called the jump seats

were Texas Governor John Connolly, who's one of the guys having the feud that the President's come down to sort out, and Connolly's wife Nellie. Then in the front seats were two Secret Service agents. Nellie Connolly. Not a fan? Nah. But Billy Connolly works. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. Sorry, Nellie. Maybe that was sexist of me. Nellie Connolly. Nellie Connolly. Nellie Connolly. Billy Connolly. Nellie Connolly. It's fucking same name.

Nellie Connolly. Billy Connolly. Nellie Connolly. Maybe I just need to get used to Nellie because I'm very used to Billy Connolly. That's right. You've grown up with Billy Connolly. Yeah. Maybe I just need to get used to Nellie.

She's going to play a big part of my life now. I love Nellie Connolly. See, that just rolled off my tongue so easily. Beautiful. And it was worth interrupting you for. Well, we've come on this journey with you. Now we all like Nellie Connolly. We all love Nellie Connolly.

Love Nellie Connolly. I don't think I was going to mention her again, but she's got her own little starring part now. Yeah, she's my favourite. Never forget her. Love you, Nells. The plan for JFK, Jackie and Nellie, let's not forget her, was to drive through a 10-mile parade route from the airport

to the Dallas Trademark where the president would deliver yet another speech. To get there from the airport, the motorcade would have to go through Dealey Plaza, which is a group of buildings surrounding a park, which then quickly becomes a freeway. Okay. Basically, once you quickly becomes a freeway. Basically, once you're on the freeway, you're almost there. Also traveling to Dealey Plaza that day was a man who woke up a nobody and would go to sleep as one of the most famous people in America.

His name, Lee Harvey Oswald. Oh, did he release an album or something? Yeah, honestly, straight to number one. It was a real overnight sensation. Wow. Now we know if you're known as three names, you're either an assassin, a serial killer, or John Cougar Mellencamp. Yeah.

I was thinking you were going to go with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, but Cougar's also very good. Which of the three do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was? I think he's John Coog of Mellencamp. Yeah, he's a Coog. Heartland Rock? He's a Coog. Absolutely.

Absolute Coog. Oswald was born on October 18, 1939 in New Orleans, Louisiana, two months after his father died from a heart attack. After this, his childhood didn't get any easier. Following her husband's death, Marguerite, who's his mother, sent Oswald and his two older brothers to live in an orphanage. She just couldn't care for them. Imagine telling, you're an orphan. No, I'm not. Mum, mum. My mum dropped us off here. Mum checked them in. You're an orphan. No, I'm not. Mum, mum. My mum dropped us off here. Mum checked them in.

You're an orphan. No, sorry, orphan. See this sticker? It says orphan. That's on you. I just put this on you. You're an orphan now. She watched Annie and thought, oh, that's a good idea.

Love Annie. Why do I smell wet dog? Any reason to bring it up. The only thing I know about that film is that it's called Little Orphan Annie, so I assume she's an orphan and something about a wet dog. That's it. That's Daddy Walbucks. You're up to date. Who just for a short term adopted her.

Well, he didn't, but his assistant adopted her. Thought it would be good for his PR. Oh. Orphans are good for PR. If I'm remembering it correctly. Been a while. Been a while. They're living in an orphanage, but after his mother remarried,

Oswald eventually moved back in with the mum and they moved frequently. And this is from biography.com describing his early life. With his mother working long shifts, the young Oswald was often left to fend for himself, spending time at the library while developing a habit of playing hooky from his eighth grade classes. Hooky is different in Australia. In Australia, that's the game where you throw rings on the hooks, right? But I think in America, it's wagging.

Wagging, yeah. What do you mean you don't have wagging? Playing hooky. I wonder where that comes from. I bet it's an interesting story. Biography.com picks up, he was eventually picked up and placed in a detention hall where his social worker described him as emotionally detached,

giving off the feeling of a kid nobody gave a darn about. End quote. So very, very sad. He worked odd jobs and began to read communist literature. He wrote to the Socialist Party of America when he was 17 to express his enthusiasm for Marxism. Despite this enthusiasm, in October 1956, when he was 17, the same year, he dropped out of high school and joined the US Marines. He wasn't a great soldier,

but he was a pretty good shot, earning the distinction of sharpshooter, although this was later downgraded to marksman, which is one rank lower or one credit lower. So, but anyways, he's good with a gun. Whilst in the Marines, Oswald taught himself Russian and continued to study the Soviet Union. From Britannica now, he began expressing pro-Soviet and politically radical views and on a hardship plea, basically begging, he secured release from the Corps on September 11, 1959. Nine days later, he left for the Soviet Union, which, remember, is the absolute enemy of the USA at this point and everyone is paranoid about the Soviets.

When he got there, he tried unsuccessfully to become a citizen, but they said, no, thank you. Soon after, on October 21, 1959, he slashed his left wrist in an apparent suicide attempt. After this, Soviet officials, who seemed like now that they felt sorry for and worried for this young man, said Oswald could stay in the Soviet Union on a year-to-year basis. So that's, they've given him sort of temporary asylum. In Minsk, where he was assigned to work, he met and married Marina Prusakova. 13 months later,

having become disenchanted with the realities of the harsh Soviet lifestyle, in June 1962, he was able to return to the United States with his wife and three-month-old daughter, June Lee. So he's just had a bit of a jaunt over there, living up in what's considered the absolute enemy of the country at this time. According to How Stuff Works, the FBI interviewed Oswald regarding his decision to move to the Soviet Union and subsequent decision to return to the United States. He agreed to inform the FBI should any representative

from the Soviet Union ask him to engage in espionage activities. Guys, guys, guys, guys. Pinky promise. I will tell you if anybody's like, could you spy on us, could you spy on the US for us, I would be, I won't say anything to them, but I will come straight to you guys. Honestly, it does feel like that went, well, that's the end of that. Great, thanks so much.

We sorted that out. No spy info coming from him, that's for sure. He said he'd let us know. So all good. People that think that this story is suspicious or they're suspicious of the often presented narrative of Harvey Oswald point to the fact that he went to the Soviet Union and it was pretty easy for him to do that

and also that it was really easy for him to come home. That's a bit sus. Like back then, like you're being rounded up even if you're like if you're thought to be like you know communist leanings he went there asked to hang out with him and then came back and no one said anything people like was the CIA bringing him back was he a spy or that sort of stuff anyway put a pin in that thought around this this time, Oswald's interest in communism transformed into support for Cuba. So he's given up on the Soviet Union. Now he's like, oh, I'm all for Cuba. Then in early 1963, he acquired a.38 handgun via the mail and later acquired a Carcano rifle with a telescopic sight. He had Marina, his wife, take a picture of him

with the weapons, a document that would later be used as criminal evidence against him. So we were talking about earlier Jack and Jackie being awkward sort of names. What about a Marine marrying Marina? Is that a nominative determinism at its finest? I don't know. I don't know. That'd just be confusing. I'm off to work as a Marine, Marina.

You know what I mean? All of a sudden his lunchbox would get mixed up with hers Who knows what else would happen I smell a sitcom Marina and the Marine I'm a marine Funny stuff happens in between I've already written the theme You've basically written the whole show.

Yeah, copyright that. Thanks very much. Beautiful. Wait, he was a Marine, right? Yeah. Yes. Okay. He liked wearing Marine, the colour, right?

Because it was barely nothing, but if he wasn't a Marine and it was actually the Navy or whatever, I can't tell the difference. They've got too many things over there. They got like multiple land armies and then multiple sea armies, don't they? Yeah, multiple. I mean the Coast Guard, where do they fit? Coast Guard, Marines.

You got the Navy SEALs. I don't know how the list goes on. Yeah. JAG. JAG. NCIS. Oh, my God. That's right.

Criminal Intent. NCIS Miami. Yeah. SoG. JAG. NCIS. Oh, my God. That's right. Criminal Intent. NCIS Miami. Yeah. So, yeah. Hard to keep up. Becca. Yeah, Becca's in. They've got Becca.

I assume he's undercover. NYPD Blue. Simpsons. Oh, Simpsons, yeah. Chief Wiggum. Yeah, heaps of cops. Oh, my God. Dave, if I could just interrupt you for a moment.

I assume you've been spending a lot of time on the internet researching this report. Oh, yeah, heaps, big time. Well. Big internet guy. I hope you're using ExpressVPN because going online without ExpressVPN is like using your smartphone without a protective case. Are you a maniac, Dave?

No, I'm not. Look, most of the time you'll probably be fine, but all it takes is one accidental drop onto solid concrete to make you wish you'd bloody protected yourself. Oh dear. Now, guys, maybe you're asking yourselves a question. Why does everyone need a VPN? I think that's a great question. I'll take this one. Every time you connect to an unencrypted network, say in a cafe, a hotel, or an airport, the airport's a dodgy one I've heard, your online data is not secure.

Some hacker could be on the same network and then they can gain access and steal your stuff, including passwords, financial details, et cetera. I've had my bank account hacked. I was on a tram. Long story. Anyway, not again because I'm with ExpressVPN. It doesn't take much technical knowledge to hack someone, just some cheap hardware.

A smart 12-year-old could do it, you know, basically an idiot. Not a dumb 12-year-old though. A smart one? No, a smart 12-year-old. But what age can you be dumb and still do it? Like 15, dumb 15? Yeah. Yeah, I think once you're sort of a driving age, you can be a bit sillier and still be able to do it,

you know, basically an idiot. I know a lot of our listeners are hackers, but listeners, you know the saying, if you're an idiot hacking someone, make sure they can't say the same about you. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Words to live by there. Now, you're wondering how it works.

Well, it's super secure. It would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years to get past ExpressVPN's encryption. A billion years, guys. It's super easy to use. I do it. I've got it on my phone and on my laptop. You fire up the app, click one button, you get protected.

And I know I'm protected because, and also you can make yourself look like you're in another country. And I sometimes look like I'm in America and I connected to the Wi-Fi at work and I got a call from IT saying, it looks like you're in America right now. And I had to say, oh no, I've got a VPN. And he said, which one is it? And I said, ExpressVPN. Is that okay? And he said, honestly, I'm proud you're using a VPN. That's a good one. So he thought it was a good idea, the IT guy. I think it would be so funny if you were like, I'm on a VPN and the IT guy was like, what's that? What do you mean? Slow down, egghead. Well, you can also secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash do go on.

That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash do go on. And you can get an extra three months free. Expressvpn.com slash do go on. So he's bought a pistol and he's brought a rifle. This rifle was eventually identified as the firearm used to murder the president. You're just dropping spoilers everywhere, aren't you? Well, not to jump ahead too much, Jess,

but let me reel you back in here. Well, actually, no, let me reel you forward and then I'll reel you back in after this sentence. After the rifle was found, following the assassination, it was linked to another previously unsolved assassination attempt. I didn't know about this, but seven months before the Kennedy assassination, a bullet had been fired into the home of an ultra right-wing army general named Edwin Walker. The bullet missed, but was later found to have been fired from that same gun. Whoa. So whoever shot at Kennedy with that gun also shot at this guy

seven months earlier. Whoa. And or, you know, someone else got the same gun. It was just a coincidence. Maybe the guy who sold it in the mail, he had a shot at that guy. Sold it by mail, then had a shot at another guy. You know what I mean? We've cracked this thing wide open.

NYPD blue star. So Oswald started aligning his pro-communist sympathies with Cuba, who were, remember, at the centre of the Cuban Missile Crisis only a couple of years before. That makes sense. It's in the name. And what is possibly the saddest part of anyone's life I've ever heard? Quote, in Louisiana, Oswald tried to establish a chapter

of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Oswald was the sole member of the chapter, although he attempted to hand out flyers and give interviews as though it were a large organisation, end quote. Dave, why are you making me feel for this murderer? Alleged. Wait, I think, is it still alleged? Well, it depends.

I mean, there's so many theories here, man. Right, but in the court of law. Well, I don't want to jump in too much. Oh, okay. This never makes court of law, baby. Oh, wow, okay. It's funny, these sort of stories, I'm always like hoping that something changes, you know,

like I know what's coming, but in my head I'm like, jeez, I hope they take a different route to what they were meant to or something. It was, I watched the documentary, I think it different route to what they were meant to or something. I watched the documentary. I think it's called like 24 Hours to Live or something and it's narrated by Bill Paxton, you know, the actor. He's played the President, hasn't he? Or am I thinking Bill Pullman? Bill Pullman in Independence Day.

Sorry I'm late, Mr President. Getting my Bills confused. And Bill narrates the documentary because when he was eight years old, he actually saw JFK on the morning. His dad took him out. He's from Texas and his dad took him out to Fort Worth and he saw him give his last outdoor speech and that's why he narrates it. But it's a hard watch because as the documentary goes on,

every ad break it says how many hours he's got to live and Bill Paxton just goes, President Kennedy has four hours to live. That happens on every ad break and then it's like in 40 minutes the President will be dead. And it's just really you're like, please don't turn down there. Don't do it. Don't do it. But amazingly they do.

Here's Bill Paxton from Fort Worth, the late Bill Paxton. He passed away a few years ago. Yeah. Before now, I only knew Fort Worth as a lyric in a Pantera song. They say Fort Worth a bunch in this song, Hellbound. I don't know what kind of town is it. Is it like because it's got Fort in the name, does that mean it's an army town or something?

I'm not sure. It's really very close to Dallas. Right. Almost like a suburb of Dallas sort of. So now there's the Dallas, Fort Worth, Arlington metropolitan area, I think because they've expanded so much. And Fort Worth is the second largest city in that area I'm looking at. There you go.

But, yes, I don't know where the Fort comes from. Dave, I expect you to know everything about everything. Actually, I do know. I'm just recalling this at the back of my mind. Just hang on. Let me download that. The city of Fort Worth, if I seem to remember, was established in 1849 as an army outpost on a bluff

overlooking the Trinity River. And if I seem to remember correctly, Fort Worth has historically been a centre of the Texas longhorn cattle trade. Yeah, right. Wow. And if I seem to remember, the total square miles are 355.56. Carry the two. Carry the two. Longhorns, what a beautiful beast. And people from there are called Fort Worthians. Oh, that's great. Are you Fort Worthy? Love it. Anyway, we're back to Oswald. He's trying to hook up with the Cubans, but no one wants to join his committee.

It's really sad. In September 1963, he took a trip to Mexico City where he attempted to obtain passage to Cuba and the Soviet Union, but to no avail. So the Soviets didn't really want to know him. The Cubans didn't seem to be very interested in him. But he brought his whole squad from Fort Worth. Yeah, that's right. Me and all the lads were here.

Me and the gang. We'll come down. He turns up, it's just him. So he then returned to the States from Mexico City where in October 1963, just one month before JFK was shot, Oswald got a job working at the Texas School Book Depository, a multi-floor warehouse in Dallas that stored school textbooks and other related materials. On the morning of that fateful day, November 22, 1963, Lee Harvey

Oswald took off his wedding ring, something that his wife Marina said he never did. Despite the fact that they were estranged at the time and not living together, Oswald would usually visit her on Fridays but surprised her when he turned up to stay over on Thursday night. She was like, okay, this is weird. In the morning he left his ring in a teacup with most of his money on top of his wife's dresser and then his colleague and friend, 19-year-old Buell Fraser, picked him up to drive to work at the Texas School Book

Depository. Love the name Buell, by the way. Never heard of that, but I love it. Yeah. Bueller I've heard of. Yeah. I wonder if there's any couples out there, Buell and Bueller. That's a beautiful couple.

I really hope so, because that is a beautiful name for a couple. The ring that he left behind on the dresser would be returned to the family 50 years later. It went missing for five decades and was sold at auction in 2013. You want to guess how much this ring sold for? It's going to be an insanely large amount. Okay, but don't go too high because it's always so disappointing. $200,000. You're like $4 billion.

$4 billion. Fucking hell. $200,000. Sorry to disappoint you. It was $108,000. Wild. That is wild. Still quite a lot.

And, yeah, the seller was someone called Frank Barry Investigation Bureau. The SCIB? Yeah, they weren't very good at it. They're like, we've had this for a while. When we set him up, we took this ring. We want to get rid of it now. We obviously don't want to dob ourselves in, so we'll come up with a clever nickname.

The FDRB. Finishing with Bureau. Hey, have you moved the bee? Bueller Bureau. Beautiful name. So Bueller picked him up and Oswald was carrying something with him that morning. His friend Bueller asked, what's in the package?

And he said, remember I told you I was bringing curtain rods to put up curtains? And he meant at the place where he rented a room. And Buell was like, all right, whatever. And his friend just put them in the back and they just drove the 20 minutes to work. He didn't notice a single thing was off. They got to work and Oswald went inside the book depository while Buell stayed out the front revving his engine to charge his battery because he'd had a bit of trouble that day.

He said at the end of the day when he was told what Oswald was accused of, he was like, how the hell did I miss that? Anyway. Oh, the rods. So the rods was the gun with the sights and stuff on it, was it? Well, originally he was going to attack the president with the rods, but then he found a gun and he thought, this is way easier. I can do this from afar in the grassy knoll.

No, he's not on the knoll. That's where someone else might have been. Well, I think we're nearly up to the knoll. As the presidential parade drove on and got closer and closer to Main Street, Dallas, the crowds got larger and more packed in. People were five or six deep on either sides of the road and people were hanging off rooftops and balconies just to get a glimpse. An estimated 200,000 people lined the roughly 10-mile, 16k route to the trademark.

And they're all clapping and cheering and waving. Everyone's having a great time. It's beautiful weather. It's a great time. The schools were let out that day so the kids could all go and have a look. It's like a real party atmosphere out there. It became so packed that the motorcade had to slow down considerably. They were planning on doing like, you know, 30, you know,

20 miles an hour, then it was 10, now they're doing five. They're just crawling along at the busiest parts. The Secret Service agents got out of the car and started running alongside. You know that thing where they sort of run, they jog next to the car, and they're holding onto the back of the presidential limousine with their special platforms and handles for them to hang on, all that sort of stuff. And as they turned right

onto Houston Street, the crowds began to drop off considerably. They're getting further away from the centre of town towards this freeway they want to go on. Soon after, the motorcade turned left onto Elm Street, driving through Dealey Plaza. On the corner that they turned on is the Texas School Book Depository, where Harvey Oswald is at work. That's a seven-storey square red brick building, quite large. The motorcade travels west and the building is now behind them and to the right. Whoa, the building's following them? It's gaining on them.

Look out! Like, this is a bit suspicious. I don't want to alarm you, but that building is gaining on us. I think we're being tailed. Well, that's not the only thing closing in on them. On their right, now closing in, is something known to history as the grassy knoll. Dave, are you going to explain what a knoll is?

So it's on the right-hand side. They're on the road. It's a bank of grass that slopes uphill. It's basically a bank of grass. And we'll talk about it in a minute and talk about the name because you'd say grassy knoll they're on the road. It's a bank of grass that slopes uphill. So basically a bank of grass. And we'll talk about it in a minute and talk about the name because you'd say grass, you'd know that's the one. Actually, it's a bank of grass. The extra secret service agents that were standing

on the back of the presidential limousine. It's not that there's a surplus of them. These ones are just extra special. They're extra secret. They're extra secret. The extra secret. You wouldn't even see this guy. Where'd they come from? They're invisible.

I won't even tell you. What do you do? Nothing? Yeah. That's cool. That's hot. That's so hot. So these are the ones that were standing on the back of the limousine

when they were in the busiest part of the town. Now they've left and they've returned to their own car behind this was standard protocol as they were only a few meters away from a freeway entrance and it would be too dangerous for them to be hanging on the back of a car whilst they're doing 60 miles or 100k an hour the agents were actually relieved at this point because they'd made it through the massive crowds and were now only five minutes away from their destination and And they were basically like, oh, thank goodness we got through that. Smooth sailing from here. But then at 12.30pm, that feeling of calm was broken when a shot rang out.

This one missed the president and later was found to have hit the pavement. A fragment from the bullet or the debris from the street hit a guy called James Tao, who is watching the motorcade in Dealey Plaza. Thankfully, he only received very minor injuries. Seconds later, and I mean seriously, like a couple of seconds later, a second and then a third shot were heard. Some people think they heard a fourth shot. The second of these shots hit the president near the base of the back of the neck, slightly to the right of his spine, and then the bullet exited through his throat. After the hit, Kennedy slumped into what's called

Thornburn's position, which is a common neurological response to spinal damage. He sort of just slumped over and collapsed. The third shot hit the back right-hand side of his head, causing a portion of his head behind his ear to blow out. Jesus. Horrific wound. And these shots all happened in an estimated 4.8 to 5.6 seconds.

So within six seconds it's gone from everyone going, hey, thank goodness we made it to, oh, my God, we're under fire. Clint Hill, who I spoke about before, he's the one who gave Jackie the advice at the start of the episode. What did he tell her? That everyone in Texas is simple? There's no intelligence in Texas. No intelligence.

No intelligence. Isn't his real name Clint Knoll? Yeah. He's one of the Secret Service agents. He's in the car behind them now. He jumped out of the car, got onto the back of the presidential limousine after he heard the first shot. He just jumped on the back of the car. As the limousine with the president inside it began speeding up, Mrs Kennedy was heard to scream and she climbed out the back seat onto

the rear of the limo, sort of hanging on the boot, possibly to retrieve a piece of her husband's skull that had been blown to the back of the car. So she sort of accidentally puts herself in the line of fire. She later said she couldn't remember these traumatic moments, not surprisingly, but both of the Connellys, who's the governor and his wife, Nellie, said they heard Mrs Kennedy say, I have his brains in my hand.

She was really going through it. So Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent, managed to climb aboard and hang onto the back of the accelerating limo, and Mrs Kennedy returned to the back seat. He got her into the back seat, and then he shielded her and the president just jumped on top of them. Sadly, it was too late. The three shots had already rung out. He saw the president slumped over and later recalled, I could see into his skull, and I knew that part of his brain was gone, and he was gone. Clint stayed on top of Jackie as the car kept moving, getting up at one point to turn

to the car behind them to give them a thumbs down signal, knowing that it was a fatal wound and the president was almost certainly dead. Despite this, the limousine raced to the nearby Parkland Memorial Hospital. They were really close to the hospital and within a couple of minutes they were there. Sadly, the doctor's efforts were futile and President Kennedy was officially declared dead at 1pm. Also badly injured in the shooting was Governor Connolly who'd been sitting in front of JFK. He had been injured in the shoulder, wrist and his thigh. Thankfully he survived these injuries. After the shots were fired there was some confusion about how many there were and where they'd come from.

Some initially thought they'd heard a shot fired from the grassy knoll, the grassy bank, with a fence behind it. This would mean that the bullet had come from in front of the president and that there was in fact a second shooter. Big theory. And the term grassy knoll, Matt, originated with the United Press international reporter Merriman Smith, who rode in the motorcade five cars behind the president in his second dispatch from the car's phone 25 minutes after the shooting he said some of the

secret service agents thought the gunfire was from an automatic weapon fired to the right of the president's car probably from a grassy knoll to which police rushed these words were then repeated on national tv by cbs news anchor walter cr Cronkite in his second CBS bulletin on the shooting and the term grassy knoll just stuck. Right. So it wasn't necessarily a common. No, it's just one of those things where someone happened to describe it as that and then that got repeated. And because, you know, it's such a theory, if they're a second shooter, from then on everyone just says grassy knoll. So that is a totally different angle, is it? I'm guessing you'll get into this later,

but they would have theories about the exit wounds and stuff like that and where the bullets must have come from. Yeah, so some people thought that they'd heard a bullet behind them, meaning the bullet came from in the front. And if you watch the video, which there is out there, some people say that it looks like JFK's being shot from the front. Right. But, again, heavily debated. Yeah, and I imagine there'd be gunshots. there some people say that it looks like jfk is being shot from the front right but again heavily

debated yeah and i imagine like there'd be gunshots you know they they crack an echo off different things so yeah so that apparently that's part of the problem is that this area has buildings on three sides and they're all big tall brick buildings and because it's sort of like a valley almost the gunshots do echo everywhere and it's difficult for people to work out exactly where they're coming from. Right. And apparently there's also been studies that no matter where you are, if someone's shooting at you, often witnesses are confused and think it's coming from behind them because it's

difficult to identify where the sound's coming from. Yeah. Not sure why that is, but it's just a phenomenon. Not surprisingly, the media went into overdrive within seconds of the shooting. And hearing the live coverage as reports come through, the president had been shot and they're not sure how he's going. It's tragic and also fascinating.

At first, people aren't sure. Like, they know that there's been bullets and they've seen the Secret Service jump on them, but is he all right? Is he not all right? And then it comes out, no, he's not. In early afternoon edition, some newspapers in the United States ran stories on the advanced text of the speech that President Kennedy had planned to give at the Dallas Trademark, anticipating that the address would have been already delivered by the time the

newspapers were being read. So these had to be quickly withdrawn. Oh, wow. Because they're like, oh, wow, Kennedy said this and this. And then. Oh, wow. Because they're like, oh, wow, Kennedy said this and this, and then people are reading it and then they're hearing, hang on, is he dead? He didn't make it to that. No, he never read those words. How about Lee Harvey Oswald? Well, soon after the shooting, Oswald apparently got a Coke from the soda machine in the book depository and started walking out of the building. He was actually stopped on his way out by Dallas police officer Marion Baker, who had run into the building after the shots to see if they could see where they came from. Baker had heard the shots and gone, oh, it could be this building. I'll go

have a look. Baker called out to Oswald, who was walking down the stairs around the third or fourth floor and they crossed paths. But the manager of the building said that he knew Oswald because he worked there, so he was allowed to continue on. The manager said, oh, don't worry, I know him. He's allowed to be here. He was holding an assault rifle, but he worked there. But he works here. He manages books.

That's quite a long-range site you've got there. Yes, for the books. I use it to read the books. My site isn't too good. I can't afford glasses, but I've got this gun. This exchange is actually only estimated to be 90 seconds after the shooting. Wow.

If it is him, he's put the rifle down, he's walked downstairs, grabbed a coke, run into a cop within 90 seconds, and then walked out. If they did talk to him, you'd think probably would have got him at a, his heart would have been racing and who knows. Totally.

Could have quickly been able to clean up that he definitely didn't do it. If only they'd spoken to him. Yeah, that's right. He could have proved he's innocent. Well, at 12.45pm, just 15 minutes after the shooting, Lee Harvey Oswald got onto a bus seven blocks away from the book depository. The bus moved very slowly because of the traffic in Dealey Plaza. Not surprising that they'd stopped the traffic after the shooting.

Shortly after boarding, he got off and took a cab back to his boarding house where he changed his clothes and got his pistol. At the same time, 15 minutes after the Kennedy shooting, police officer J.D. Tippett received a radio order to drive to the central Oak Cliff area as part of a concentration of police around the city. So they just sent cops out. Witness Howard Brennan was sitting across the street

from the Texas School book depository when the presidential motorcade had gone by. He notified police that he heard a shot come from above and looked up to see a man with a rifle and another shot from the southeast corner window on the sixth floor of the book depository. He said he'd seen the same man minutes earlier looking through the window. Several messages had been broadcast describing a suspect in the shooting at Dealey Plaza as a slender white male in his early 30s, 5'10", and weighing about 165 pounds or 75 kilos.

Dave, you just described yourself. He's a little heavier and taller than me, but I'd like to round myself up. I always find it really interesting when people describe the weight of a person they've seen very quickly. How do you know? how do you know? How do you know? Also, it's very rude to guess. It's so rude.

Well, you always guess wrong. Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even when describing a killer. The person probably said 60 kilos and they went, well, people always underestimate, 75. Yeah, 75. This description's been circulating. At 1.15pm, police officer J.D. Tippett spotted someone

who fit that description, a certain Lee Harvey Oswald. He's only 24 but thought to be looking like he's in his 30s, so pretty brutal there, mate. Sorry about that. He's only 24. Yeah. It's funny, isn't it? Like when you're younger, you just sort of assume everyone's old, you know?

Yeah. Like, you know, Kurt Cobain. He wrote all those classic hits in his early 20s. The Beatles, all these songs. Same with Killers, I guess. They do their best work young. Is that what you're saying? The Killers, first album was the best one.

You're right. Absolutely right. So he sees a guy and says, oh, I better stop him. Shortly after, police hear a civilian on the police radio line who's grabbed the radio saying, it's a police officer. Somebody shot him. What had happened was Oswald had walked over to Tippett's car when he said, hey, I want to talk to you,

exchanged words with him through an open vent in the window. Tippett then opened his car window and as Tippett walked towards the front of the car, Oswald drew out his handgun and fired five shots in rapid succession. Whoa. Three bullets hit Tippett in the chest, another one in his right temple, and he died. Oh, shit.

And many people witnessed this. So this part's not really up for debate. Tippett was killed in the exchange and Oswald made a break for it and ran into a movie theatre that was playing War Is Hell, a film narrated by former Dougal on Topic, World War II badass Audie Murphy. No shit. There you go.

Wow. Everything connects up in the Dougal universe. That's weird. That's a weird connection. According to Business Insight, Oswald was seen sneaking into the theatre and someone called the police saying someone's broken into the theatre. So if he just bought a ticket, they wouldn't have called the cops. Yeah, but also the police are surely like,

we have got other issues, madam. I don't give a shit if some guy hasn't paid his 30 cents to see a movie. The president is dead and that's how she found out. Oh, my God. The president is dead. And that's how she found out. Oh, my God. The president is dead. Was it Christopher Walken on the other end of the line? The president is dead. You've got real good at accents and impersonations, Bob.

I haven't gotten real good. I've always been good. You've gotten, for this podcast, you're starting to get a little too good at it. We're meant to be doing them bad on purpose. No, I refuse to dim my light for you. Let me shine, Matt. Okay. Avid, you know, it's good stuff.

It is good stuff. Avid. Very good. Avid. So the cops go searching for him. They raise the house lights of the movie, ruining the film. What a suspenseful bit too. Oh, my goodness.

Officer Nick McDonald spotted Oswald in the seats. He walked up to him and Lee Harvey Oswald said, this is it, and pulled out his revolver. As they fought, Officer McDonald got his finger in the front of the pistol's hammer so the gun wouldn't fire. Oswald punched an officer in the face and then the officer punched back, giving Oswald a black eye, and then he was arrested. Action-packed scenes. Bit of drama. Meanwhile, the book depository had been searched and on the sixth floor they found an open window and a Carcano rifle and three shell casings.

The gun had been reportedly covered in boxes, hastily put away. There was the bag Oswald had been seen carrying the so-called curtain rods in that morning found at the scene. So whilst all this horror goes on, there's also the constitutional crisis that the President is suddenly dead. In the hospital, Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson was surrounded by Secret Service agents who encouraged him to return to Washington in case he too was targeted for assassination. But Johnson wanted to wait until he knew of Kennedy's condition. At 1.20pm, he was told Kennedy was dead and he left the hospital 20 minutes later. The way he found out was one of

his aides came up to him and said, Lyndon B. Johnson, Lyndon B. President. And Lyndon was like, I mean, first of all, love that. Love that energy. Keep that up. But secondly, little insensitive, mate. Said it a bit loud, we are still at the hospital. If you could have taken me aside. Didn't have to say it in front of Jackie, okay?

I don't think she appreciated it. But I've got to say, fuck, I loved it. I loved it. Maybe you didn't have to go for the high five. Yeah. That was a bit much. It was a bit much to go, woo, at the end. We are in a hospital. The president has been killed.

Well, the former president because Lyndon be president. It is catchy. It is catchy. Jackie, come on. You've got to admit it. Come on. Jackie, can former president, because Lyndon be president. It is catchy. It is catchy. Jackie, come on. You got to admit it. Come on. Jackie, can I get a high five? At 2pm, Vice President Johnson called the Attorney General, the top lawmaker in the country, who also happened to be JFK's grief-stricken brother, Robert Kennedy. Oh, Bobby. He had to call Bobby and find out what his legal options were

about taking the oath of office. Oh. Bobby told Johnson that he had to take the oath of office as soon as possible before leaving Dallas. Do not delay, just in case something happens. Johnson was then driven by an unmarked police car to Dallas Love Field Airport and kept below the car's window level throughout the journey.

So they were paranoid that someone was going to take a shot at him. It would be so stressful. Dave, you're making it sound like paranoid makes it sound like they have no reason to fear this. Yeah. I feel like they've got some justification to be cautious here. Lyndon be shitting himself. His name really lends itself to a lot of fun.

It's really fun. He's like in the boot. They're like, how you doing back there, Mr President? Lyndon be panicking. The Vice President waited for Jacqueline Kennedy, who in turn would not leave Dallas without her husband's body, so they had to wait for that as well. There had been real controversy about what to do with JFK's body because Dallas County Medical Examiner, Dr Earl Rose, insisted that an autopsy had to be

performed in Dallas. That's protocol. But the Kennedy party and the Secret Service wanted to take the body and perform their own autopsy later. They wanted to take JFK, get him out of there. So the Secret Service took the President's body with them and this later fuelled conspiracy. Like, why did they break this protocol? Are they covering up something? Are they hiding something? Right.

I think it's probably more of a case of Secret Service's job is to stay with the President under all circumstances and they didn't want to leave him. I think that's probably what was happening there. Kennedy's casket was finally brought to the aircraft, but takeoff was delayed until Johnson took the oath of office. President Johnson chose Federal District Judge Sarah T Hughes, a longstanding friend, to swear him in as the 36th president.

Because remember, he's from Texas, so he would know local people. For the inauguration, 27 people squeezed into the tiny 12 by 15 foot stateroom of the Air Force One for the proceedings and there is a really famous photo of Johnson being sworn in, taken by Cecil Stoughton. Lyndon be sworn in. Oh, wow, I'm looking at the photo. Yeah, so it's a very famous photo taken by Cecil Stockton or Stuffton,

John F Kennedy's official photographer, and Jackie Kennedy is in the photo and somehow she's standing and composed. I don't know how she did it. Absolutely amazing. She's still wearing the same pink Chanel suit she was wearing in the car and she had to angle herself in a way that meant her husband's blood couldn't be seen in the photo because apparently part of her body covered in blood. Yeah. Like a lot. Several people asked Kennedy whether she would like to change her suit but

she refused when Lady Bird Johnson, who's about to become the first lady, offered to send someone to help her. Jackie responded, oh no, I want them to see what they've done to Jack. So she purposefully kept on this suit. The pink suit, which is now quite iconic, was sent by Jackie to her mother who kept the bloodstains unwashed and it was later donated to the National Archive, but it will not be seen by the public until at least 2103. Whoa. 2103. Is that what we're going to go with? How the public until at least 2103. Whoa.

2103. Is that what we're going to go with? How do you say it? 2103? 2103, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because they would have gone with 1103, wouldn't they?

Yeah, 2103. I think they would have gone with 1103. After the oath had been taken, Johnson kissed his wife Lady Bird on the forehead. Mrs Johnson then took Jackie Kennedy's hand and told her, the whole nation mourns your husband. Lady Bird. Lady Bird, yeah.

I'm picturing an actual Lady Bird? Yes. He was the first president to be married to an insect. He was the first Lady Bird. But not the last. Her name was Lady Bird. Apparently it was a nickname from childhood, but everyone called her that.

Ladybird. All right, do you guys call them ladybirds or ladybugs? Both, interchangeable. Yeah, I think I'm the same. Interesting question. I think a real conversation starter. I think I call them both as well. I call them ladybugs and I refuse to call her ladybird.

Come here, ladybug. All right, ladybug. Ladybug Johnson. Oh, ladybug's a cute pet name. That's cute. I'm going to ask to be her Lady Bird. Come here, Lady Bug. All right, Lady Bug. Lady Bug Johnson. Oh, Lady Bug's a cute pet name. That's cute. I'm going to ask to be called Lady Bug. It's cool when you insist on a pet name. Mine's Cobra.

Because I'm cool. Even the dog. Where's Cobra? Where's Cobra? That's right. Where is he? Go get Cobra. Soon after his arrest, Lee Harvey Oswald encountered reporters

in a hallway. Oswald declared to them, I didn't shoot anybody. They've taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy. I'm just a patsy. Nobody loves me. I'm just a patsy, nobody loves me.

This little acapella actually is pointed to by conspiracy theorists. Maybe he is just a patsy. Maybe he is just a patsy that nobody loves him. But, I mean, people witnessed him shooting a police officer and he's going, I didn't shoot no one. Yeah, if you get through to the end of the song, he does start singing about mum where I just killed a man. But not the president. It's a good song.

This is so wild to me. I don't know if they do this anymore. They think they've got the president's assassin right and hours later they arrange a press conference for reporters to ask him questions. Ask the assassin questions? Yeah. What? They call it a press meeting. It's just a press conference for reporters to ask him questions. Ask the assassin questions? Yeah. What? They call it a press meeting. It's just a press conference. One reporter asked him,

did you kill the president? And Oswald, who by that time had only been advised of the charge of murdering Tippett, the police officer, but not yet arraigned on Kennedy's death, answered, no, I've not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. Weird. So he denied the thing that a lot of witnesses saw, a lot of crisis actors saw. Isn't that term right? He's definitely saying I didn't kill the president. What are you talking about? No one's even mentioned that.

It's like, okay. What? The president's dead? That's what I'd be doing. That's what I'd be doing. Yeah, he's saying I didn't kill anyone, didn't do anything, I'm a patsy. It's all fake. It's all fake.

He said what? Lyndon B. Johnson is dead? During their first interrogation of their suspect, police took paraffin tests of his hands and face, which is for gun residue. The tests of the hands came back positive. Five bullet cartridges were also found in his pocket. According to James Level, a former member of the Dallas Police Force

who helped escort Oswald from his cell on November 24th, two days after the assassination, the assassination, that's what I call it, my pet name for it, you know, he said about Oswald, I put the handcuffs on him and in the process of doing that I more than just kind of said, Lee, if anybody shoots at you, I hope they're as good a shot as you are. Meaning, of course, that they'd hit him and not me. And he kind of laughed and he said, oh, you're being melodramatic or something to that effect. And then he finished by saying,

nobody's going to shoot me. Well, minutes later, he was proven wrong. Oswald was brought to the basement of the Dallas police headquarters on his way to a more secure county jail. A crowd of police and press with live television cameras rolling gathered to witness this departure. As Oswald came into the room, escorted by Detective Jim Level, a well-known local nightclub owner called Jack Ruby emerged from the crowd, pulled out a handgun and shot Oswald in the stomach. There's news footage of this shooting and also another famous photo capturing the moment, Oswald sort of crying out like, ah, in the photo.

Like what? Sorry. Ah. That's how the man died. Yeah, that's how he died. Ah. Oh, sorry, he did die, yes. Wait, Lee Harvey Oswald died? Lee Harvey Os, sorry. He did die, yes. Wait.

Lee Harvey Oswald died? Lee Harvey Oswald died from the bullet wound at the same hospital. Holy shit. Where JFK had died. Oh, no wonder. So the conspiracy theorist there would be going like, oh, so, you know, he's saying he's a patsy and then he got knocked off. Wow.

Yeah. Holy shit. I watched the Umbrella Academy series over the last few years. The second one focuses on this event, the whole thing's leading up to it, sort of. And, yeah, Jack Ruby's a character in it. Oh, really? Yeah. That's awesome.

So Jack Ruby was immediately arrested because there's cops everywhere. There was no question about that. Who was Jack Ruby? Well, according to History.com, Jack Ruby operated strip joints and dance halls in Dallas and had minor connections to organised crime. He also had a relationship with a number of Dallas policemen, which amounted to various favours in exchange for leniency in their monitoring of his establishments.

Apparently, even after he shot Oswald, one of the cops said, why Jack or no Jack, something like that. They knew him. They were like, what are you doing, Jack? Oh, Jack, don't. Jack. Don't kill him. Cut it out.

Jeez. Cut it out. I won't tell you again. I've had enough. Jack had driven into town that day with his pet dachshund, Sheba, whom he often jokingly referred to as his wife. So there you go. Creepy.

Perv. Oh, what? So I'm in love with my dog and we consummated the marriage and we continue to do that every night. Oh, okay, all of a sudden I'm the weirdo. I'm the perv. I had my friend officiate a wedding between me and my little dog wife, Sheba.

My friend was also a dog. All the guests were dogs. Sheba and I are very much in love, and if you can't accept me and my little furry bride. Well, then I think that's on you, not on me. Just call your dog your child like a normal person. Equally healthy. Yeah, it's fine.

I married my fur baby. So Jack Ruby, the dog fucker, his claim was that he'd killed Oswald to protect Jackie Kennedy from having to go through the horror of a public trial. That was his claim. Wow. People really love Jackie Kennedy. Oh, big time.

In his own public trial, Ruby denied that he was acting on any other party's behalf, like the mob or whatever, what conspiracy theory people say. He pleaded innocent on the grounds that his grief over Kennedy's murder had caused him to suffer psychomotor epilepsy, that's what he called it, and that he shot Oswald unconsciously. He's like, I had no power of my actions. You're saying that's what he called it? Is it an actual thing? It's in quotation marks, psychomotor epilepsy. So he said, I'm innocent, but the jury found him guilty of murder with malice and he was sentenced to death.

What? Jeez, that's just one death after another. Yeah, well, this is Texas. Is Texas big in the death? Death penalty, I believe. They love it. I didn't know that. A court of appeals reversed the decision and whilst awaiting a new trial in 1967,

Jack Ruby died of lung cancer, aged 55. Oh, my God. So it is a lot of death. It does sound like Jack Ruby, Jack Kennedy, Lee Harvey Oswald were all on a bus that dodged a crash somehow and then death stalked them from there. You know what I mean? It's got to even the ledger.

Yeah. What was that franchise called? Last Stop? No. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? Top Gear? There's like seven films where they avoided disasters. Yeah, A Final Destination.

A Final Destination. I couldn't think of it. I genuinely was pausing then. In December 1992, this is a little aside, whilst demonstrating how Elsc graves who is someone there grabs ruby's gun in an attempt to stop him from firing lavelle who's the man in the photo holding oswald accidentally shot researcher and photographer bob porter in the arm using the same model of gun that ruby had used oh my god porter recovered at parkland hospital the same model of gun that Ruby had used. Oh, my God. Porter recovered at Parkland Hospital,

the same facility where Kennedy, Oswald and Ruby either died or were pronounced dead. So that hospital connects everyone. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from Indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth voices, we can demand more from

the earth, or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Okay, so let's quickly recap. The President of the United States has been murdered in front of dozens, if not hundreds, of witnesses. The man accused of his murder is killed two days later before he's able to go on trial or be properly investigated or questioned. Immediately, people began asking their own questions.

How is this possible? Is something being covered up here? There really were questions from day one around this. Right. Did Jack Ruby have a press conference straight after? Not that I know of. They didn't think he was famous enough for a press conference. Right.

So questions and rumours arrived. So a week after Kennedy was killed, new President Lyndon B. Johnson set up a commission to investigate the case. Lyndon, be investigating. I was going to say Lyndon be. Johnson set up a commission to investigate the case. Lyndon B. Investigating. I was going to say Lyndon B. Commissioning. Officially called the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy,

it's commonly called the Warren Commission, named after its chairman, Chief Justice Earl Warren. Lasting nearly a year and interviewing thousands of people, its 888-page final report was presented to President Johnson on September 24, 1964, and was made public three days later. It concluded that President Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald and that Oswald acted entirely alone and that all bullets were fired from the book depository window, none from any other location.

It also concluded that Jack Ruby acted alone when he killed Oswald two days later. So they're like, sadly, open and shut, these are the only two guys, they're both gone. It also said that the guy demonstrating in 1992 how the bullet was shot, he also acted alone. When he accidentally shot the guy. Well, not everyone was happy with the report

and it's been criticised a lot. Right. By any sort of credible people as well? Well, yeah, they didn't talk to everyone, including some young women who were witnesses on the day. They've since come out and said they felt like they weren't consulted because they were, you know, young women and that their opinions weren't, you know, deemed necessary,

even though they're like, I was right there, I saw a lot. It's little things like that that just add up to a lot of holes. But one of the most controversial things you might have heard of is the magic bullet theory. Have you heard of this? The magic bullet? No, actually. Was this spoofed on Seinfeld with the spit?

Yes, this is exactly the spit on Seinfeld. Right. So I'll talk you through it and you'll see exactly what I mean. The finding was by the Warren Commission that the bullet that hit Governor Connolly, remember how the governor was also the Warren Commish that the bullet that hit Governor Connolly remember how the governor was also shot yeah they found that the bullet that hit him had first hit JFK then exited his throat then it hit Connolly on the right side of his back because he's right in front of him then it traveled downward inside his body through the right of his chest exited below his

right nipple this bullet then passed through his right wrist and entered his left thigh where it caused a superficial wound. So they just thought that was all the one bullet. Yeah. And a lot of people said at the time, well, that's one magic-sounding bullet, and that's where that phrase comes from. That's one magic-sounding loogie, whatever that sounds like. Yeah.

They're parodying Oliver Stone's 90s film jfk which has a a big bit about this right people are like how could it do that that's totally unbelievable and while some people see that uh simulations and tests have shown that such a thing is possible if the the bullet bounces off bones and stuff like that army people have come out and said it sounds weird but i've seen bullets do even weirder shit than that right Right. But some people also are like, there's clearly more than one bullet. Like JFK got shot in the throat with one and then a different one hit Connolly. And they've all said there's three or four bullets heard, right, or shots heard.

Yeah. And the Warren Commission's found that there was three bullets all fired from the window by Oswald. And their founding was that the one that hit Governor Connolly just came from JFK's throat and bounced around. Yeah, amazing journey. the window by Oswald. And their founding was that the one that hit Governor Connolly just came from JFK's throat and... Bounced around. Yeah. Amazing journey. That's baffling. And whilst no professional coverage of that part of the parade exists, because it was sort of the

end of the parade, no TV cameras were there, many home movies do. The most famous and only complete video of the assassination is known as the Zapruder film. Endlessly analysed and used to prove and disprove every theory out there, it's described by the Smithsonian as the most famous 26 seconds in film history. It even has its own IMDb page where it currently has a 7.8 rating. Not bad. Vision of a man being shot in the head. Any goofs?

Hope somebody got fired for this blunder. That bullet that hit JFK in the head was actually meant to miss. In total, it's 486 frames shot on an 8mm Bell & Howell camera during its day top of the line. And the film was shot by Abraham Zapruder, a 58-year-old clothing manufacturer. He'd originally planned to film the motorcade carrying Kennedy through downtown Dallas on November 22, which is the day,

but he decided not to film the event because it had been raining that morning. When he arrived at work without his camera, his assistant insisted that he retrieve it from home before going to Dealey Plaza because the rain had cleared and it had become a beautiful day. So imagine that if she hadn't told him, hey, you should go get the camera, we wouldn't have this footage. He chose to film from on top of a 1.2 metre concrete platform. So he's got this quite a good view of everything. Next to a grassy knoll. Yeah, he's on the side of the knoll. I'm on the side of the knoll as well.

I think the knoll is just an innocent bystander. Knoll for president. I'm with knoll all the way. There's a, you know, I don't think I would put that together until maybe just now, but, you know, Andrew Denton's production company is approved as other films. Yeah, that's where it comes from. A nerdy little joke from Andrew Denton's production company, Zapruder's Other Films. Yeah, that's where it comes from. A nerdy little joke from Andrew Denton.

So Zapruder filmed the whole thing, including the fatal headshot, which he knew was fatal as he saw the president's head, quote, explode like a firecracker. After Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrells promised Zapruder that the film would only be used for an official investigation, the two men sought to develop the footage as soon as possible. Wow. Whoa. that he had a nightmare in which he saw a booth in Times Square advertising, see the president's head explode. He determined that whilst he was willing to make money from the film,

he did not want the public to see the full horror of what he'd seen. Therefore, a condition of the sale to life was that frame 313, which shows the fatal shot, would be withheld. So it skips over the bit where his head sort of explodes. Wow. And I imagine that probably goes into other conspiracy theories maybe, the missing frame? Kind of disturbingly enough, you can watch the full video

with frame 313 on YouTube today. So it has been released. And it is full on despite the 1960 quality. It's still pretty graphic. Release the Zapruder cut. One frame. I should note that he later donated $25,000, or about $200,000 today, of the money he was paid

to the widow of Officer Tippett, the guy who was also shot by Lee Harvey Oswald. That's nice. So he passed on some of his profit. The Zapruder film became a big part of the Warren Commission and has been extensively studied since. During the Warren Commission, Zapruder was interviewed himself and he was asked, did you form any opinion about the direction

from which the shots came by the sound or were you just upset by the thing you'd seen? And he said, no, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo which gave me a sound all over. In other words, that square is kind of it had a sound all over. So that adds to why a lot of people were confused about the sound. Yeah. There are so many different conspiracy theories out there.

I'll just say this right at the top here. But there's been lots of polls over the years, but up to 80% of the American public do not believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Wow. Most people do not believe the Warren Commission, like a large majority of the United States. Wow.

Now, the differing theories usually form into one of three camps. Number one is Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy, like he said. He was framed. Someone else did the shooting and he was completely innocent. Number two, Oswald wasn't acting alone. Someone else put him up to it, like the mob, the Soviets, the CIA, the Cubans, someone like that. Then Jack Ruby came along and killed Oswald to keep him silent. That's number two. Number three is that there was more

than one shooter, aka Oswald wasn't the only one firing bullets that day. Maybe someone on the grassy knoll or someone else closest to the ground took a second, third, fourth shot. Fourth option, it's a combination of all of the above, but they're the sort of main groups of theories. Yeah, wow. And you can sort of see, like I've been sort of dripping them throughout a bit, but things that don't add up and seem a little bit dodgy to people.

First of all is the autopsy. JFK's Secret Service didn't want an autopsy conducted by local officials. They wanted to take away the body immediately. Some people say that's weird. Is that them suggesting that it was some sort of an inside joke or something? Yeah. Well, that's the people that say maybe the CIA had something to do with it

is that they were all the Secret Service themselves. Right. They say, why didn't they let a proper autopsy be done? It was done by people on the same payroll as them. That's weird. They didn't want an outsider. Now the next bit is people say Oswald said I'm a patsy and some people believe him.

The next part is Oswald had lived in the USSR. Also he was allowed back into the USA with no real questions asked during a time where people were so scared of Soviet spies. Does that mean that he was a Soviet spy or he was a spy for the CIA and they let him go to the USSR and then let him come back, no questions asked? And then the final part is, the final dodgy thing is he went to Mexico City, apparently tried to meet with the Cubans,

and the story is that they didn't want to have anything to do with him. But some people say maybe this is when the Cubans said, hey, why don't you kill the president? And then he went back to Dallas and did that. So there's sort of some weird things that people like to point out. The other thing that people point out, and this is a source of a lot of confusion, is that eyewitness accounts of the shooting are very inconsistent. As we've already talked about, the building surrounding Dealey Plaza reflects sound,

making it difficult to ascertain the origin of any of the shots. Some people thought the shots fired came from the grassy knoll. Some on the grassy knoll itself that day saw a police officer running towards them and thought that that must have meant the shooter was behind them and they sort of ducked and hit the ground. This police officer Clyde Haygood later said he actually rushed to this area to speak with a fellow officer and witnesses just mistakenly believed that he was in pursuit of a suspect and that coupled with the sound and weird acoustics of Dealey Plaza left them thinking that the shots must be behind them. The House of Representatives

may be partially to blame for the enduring conspiracy theory about the Grassy Knoll. In 1976 the Select Committee on Assassinations which investigated JFK's killing, concluded that there was, quote, probably a second shooter on the grassy knoll overlooking the site where Kennedy was assassinated. They based this finding on acoustic evidence based on an audio recording made from a Dallas motorcycle policeman's microphone. The basis for this conclusion was that there was a fourth shot heard, which is an extra shot than previously accepted, indicating a second shooter, and they assumed it must have been the grassy knoll. And this is like an official House of Representatives commission. This is a government

funded commission. This acoustic evidence, however, was later debunked. In 1982, yet another committee examined the evidence, and the National Academy of Sciences Committee on Ballistic Acoustics, what a name, founded that reliable acoustic data does not support a conclusion that there was a second gunman. But because they'd already announced that, oh, the House of Representatives thinks there's a second gunman, a lot of people still think that there was. Now, some question that Oswald couldn't possibly fire a gun that quickly in succession, and there must have been a second shooter. However, tests have proved that it is possible. CBS conducted a firing test in 1967. Many of CBS's 11 volunteer marksmen,

who, unlike Oswald, had no prior experience with the Carcano rifle, were able to hit the test target twice in under the time allowed. There's also been other tests that prove it's possible. They had no experience with that rifle. Yeah, and the side on top of it. Yeah. I think that they were like police officers and military people. It wasn't just like someone gave me a gun and said, have a go. See if you can fire this a couple of times. Do it within five seconds, you get a hot dog.

What if I do it in four seconds? Two hot dogs. Oh. Five seconds, you get a hot dog. What if I do it in four seconds? Two hot dogs. Some conspiracy theorists suggest that the Soviet Union, in the form of the KGB, ever heard of them? Or Cuba, ever heard of it? Yes. Contracted Oswald to assassinate the president and that he was acting on their behalf.

The Warren Commission, which is the big commission at the start, investigated Oswald's accounts thoroughly and couldn't find any evidence of any unaccounted for money. So they said, well, no one's been paying him to do anything. But some people speculate maybe they're paid in cash or diamonds, which, as we all know, hold their value so well. Another popular theory links Jack Ruby to the mafia suggesting that the mob was behind the president's death and that they got Jack Ruby in there to take out their patsy. It's true that Robert Kennedy, JFK's brother, the attorney general, top lawmaker, had pledged to pursue organised crime with relentless tenacity. This theory hinges on either Oswald being a patsy or

working for the mob. If he was a patsy, Ruby was sent to kill Oswald before he talked to the authorities and spilled the beans. Yeah, but how stuff works, right, so like this, little evidence exists to link Oswald or Ruby to the mafia. But some people point that Oswald had an uncle connected to the mob in New Orleans, but no evidence suggested the two corresponded. Jack Ruby was a nightclub owner who had some shady business practices but no confirmed mafia connections. And whilst the motive fits nicely with the crime, the evidence doesn't really back this one up very much.

Yet another theory put Lyndon B. Johnson, the vice president, at the centre of the plot to kill Kennedy to clear his own path to the presidency. Yeah, that's what you've got to ask. Who's got the most to gain? Exactly. Lyndon B. Plotton. Well, we know from last week's report that the two didn't exactly get along before the

presidency, with LBJ thinking that he deserved the presidential nomination that JFK got. And some have speculated that he was worried he would be dropped as vice president for the next upcoming election. It's a pretty big way of dealing with it, but I guess that's the case no matter what it was. Whoever's done it, it's a pretty big way of dealing with whatever their issue is. Probably could have just said a bloody word to him.

Sounds like he was up for a chat. Have a beer. Talk it out. Yeah, chew the fat. The thing is that Lyndon only understands one language and that's violence. Lyndon, be violent. What's that, Lyndon?

Pew, pew. Pew, pew, pew, pew. Okay, okay. Thank you for expressing how you feel. Well, it seems like we've got a disagreement here, but let's work through it. Pew, pew. Is that a happy pew?

Pew. A 2003 poll actually indicated that nearly 20% of Americans suspected Lyndon B. Johnson of being involved in the assassination. Wow. The theory is that maybe he was acting with the CIA because they're known to have conducted covert events with plausible deniability. An example of such is the disastrous Bay of Pigs

in the years before the assassination, which was the invasion of Cuba that the CIA had set up with the permission of the presidency, and then they were going to deny all involvement. So they do do black ops kind of shit. After that incident in the Bay of Pigs went south, JFK was pretty critical of the CIA. Is that enough motive?

Yeah, you think they're that fragile, CIA? Can't take a bit of criticism? Constructive. Yeah? Constructive. Yeah. Constructive. Don't be so shit. Don't be so shit. Be better.

That was bad. Yeah, Bay of Pigs, you fucked that up. Cooked it, mate. Guys. No good. Another theory is that the reason for a cover-up was it was an accident. Huh? that the reason for a cover-up was it was an accident. This theory from ballistics expert Howard Donoghue, who speculated, did Oswald get off a third shot? If he did, it could have gone wild,

and the sound of it could have been blended with the sound of a shot fired accidentally by a Secret Service man from the following car. His theory is that whilst Oswald was firing down upon them, Secret Service agent George Hickey in the car behind the President pulled out his Colt AR-15 high-velocity rifle to return fire. But when his car suddenly stopped, Agent Hickey lost his balance from on top of the car seat he was standing on

and accidentally discharged the weapon, sending a.223 calibre round rocketing into Kennedy. The theory is that Oswald still fired the kill shot so Hickey didn't murder the president, but there was a cover-up to protect the Secret Service because it looks really, really bad. It's really embarrassing for the Secret Service if they've actually shot the president.

Yeah. They did a whoopsie and they shot the president, the person they're supposed to be protecting. Honestly, I'd call that a bit of a faux pas. Yeah, at most. Nikki's like, do you reckon I've still got my job on Monday? Yeah, I do actually have annual leave coming up, so. Will I get that still?

Will I still get that? There was talk of a bonus. Will I get that still? Will I still get that? There was talk of a bonus. There was talk of a Christmas bonus. Can I still have that? Because I've kind of already mentally spent it.

Taking the wife to Babados. Ooh, love that. All right. How about The Umbrella Man? Oh, Umbrella Academy, Umbrella Man. Okay. Well, see if this has anything to do with that Academy, Matt. The Umbrella Man is the name given to a figure who appears in the Zapruder film and several other films and photographs on the day.

He was the only one seen carrying and opening an umbrella on that sunny, sunny day. Suspicious. That is totally why. That's the whole reason that they would have even done that second sunny, sunny day. Suspicious. That is totally why. That's the whole reason that they would have even done that second season, I guess. The dad of the family is, I think, in that as the umbrella man. That's funny. Oh, there you go.

I didn't know that was a real thing. There you go. In the video, the umbrella man is one of the closest bystanders to President JFK when he's struck by the bullets. Researchers, Josiah Thompson and Richard Spragu suggested that the Umbrella Man may have been acting as a signaller of some kind, opening his umbrella to signal, go ahead, and then raising it to communicate, fire a second round to the other gunman,

which is so specific. I'm going to be late for dinner. Tell my wife. So that's the umbrella man. Has not been identified. Wow. In fact, maybe. Oh, that's interesting.

Actually, maybe he has. Yeah, because it feels like if he hasn't been identified, you'd be like, oh, that's weird. He definitely is keeping himself unknown for a reason. Well, there's been speculation about who he is. We think we know him, but one person we don't know the identity of is this next suspect, the Babushka lady. Ooh.

What's her deal? Also seen at the assassination, her nickname arose from the headscarf she wore, which was similar to scarves worn by elderly Russian women. Despite having a camera that may have captured key events, she's seen holding it, taking photos or video, neither she nor the film she's taken have ever been positively identified. Was she silenced? Was she involved?

Who is the babushka lady? Did she have increasingly smaller ladies inside of her? How many was she hiding? There's also Badge Man. What? Not to be confused with Badger Man. Or Vag Man. Vag Man.

Yeah, I saw Dave apply for new number plates, Vag Man, but they didn't. Unfortunately, Vic Rhodes said, no, no, no, you're no Vag Man. You could have them. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, we do a background check on all of these. said, no, no, no, you're no badge man. You could have them. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. We do a background check on all of these. You can have V-man because you're a virgin. They fact-checked everything.

Sorry, you can't have these. You are not a sick cunt. You can't have them. That's another Seinfeld. Sorry, sorry. Another Seinfeld ass man on the plate. Remember that? The ass man. All right, Remember that? The arse man.

All right, let me tell you about Badge Man. A lady named Mary Moorman took the most famous photo of the assassination. It's a Polaroid just split seconds after Kennedy was hit in the head. This photo was taken opposite the grassy knoll, so it's a different angle to the Zapruder film. In the background is an unknown figure possibly wearing some kind of police

uniform with a bright spot on the chest which is said to resemble a gleaming badge. Some researchers have theorised that this figure is a sniper firing a weapon at the president from the grassy knoll in Dealey Plaza. Badge man. Badge man. And they think maybe he could have been a cop or something, that's why he's wearing a badge. Yeah.

Meaning inside job. Inside job. Well, if you count the local police as being inside the president's inner circle. Yeah. And I do. Honestly, there is hundreds of theories out there and over 1,000 books have been published on the assassination, apparently 90% of which have conspiracy theories.

So I can't possibly cover them all on here. Oh, that sounds like a quitter. Mysteriously, there's also quite a few links between the JFK assassination and the Lincoln assassination covered on previous topic, John Wilkes Booth. Really? These were first pointed out in 1964. Apparently it's been doing the rounds ever since.

It even became a hit song in 1966 by artist Cab Calloway, which is a man reading out these little facts to music. It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard and it charted. I seriously have to show you. I'll be posting it on social media during the week. It is. It's amazing. One of the most bizarre things I've ever heard and it charted. I seriously have to show you. I'll be posting it on social media during the week. It is. It's amazing. One of the most bizarre things I've ever heard is that we've done a topic on John Wilkes Booth. Do you not remember that? That was mine. Nah. At all? If you'd asked if we'd done that, I would have said no. He was an actor. He escaped on a horse. Yeah. Yeah. Someone was there holding a horse for him. You wait there

with this horse. Don't move. I think I need to start listening to this podcast. Yeah, someone was there holding a horse for him. You wait there with this horse. Don't move. I think I need to start listening to this podcast. Yeah, I reckon. Don't know. Matt Calloway. What's his big song? I remember him from childhood. When was he around?

The 60s. Did your parents have this song on record? I feel like it was on Sesame Street or something when I was a kid, something like that. Minnie the Moocher. Okay. It was a big hit. Minnie the Moocher. Ah, okay. It was a big hit. Minnie the Moocher.

Classic. Minnie the Moocher. Hardy, hardy, hardy, high. Yeah. And I think he did it on Sesame Street. Cab Calloway sings Hardy Ho Man. There you go. Fun fact.

All right, I'm going to read out some of the coincidences between the two assassinations that haven't been debunked because a bunch have, including a couple in the Cab Calloway track. But see how impressive you find this. Both were elected to Congress in 1946, Lincoln in 1846, Kennedy in 1946. Both were elected to the presidency in 1960, Lincoln in 1860, Kennedy in 1960. Both have seven letters in their last name. Lincoln and Kennedy. And Perkins. Uh-oh. And Warnakew.

Stay down when you're driving, Jess. You didn't know that off the top of your head? You didn't know? No. Wait, I didn't know that. I think I have seven as well. Yes. We all do.

My brother and I have the exact same number of letters. First name, middle name, surname. Surname, obviously. Can you believe that? We all do. My brother and I have the exact same number of letters. First name, middle name, surname. Surname, obviously. Can you believe that? How diplomatic are my parents? We're both 747. 747.

Big Jet, Carolina. Yep. Well, that's not the only coincidence between these two men, or is this a conspiracy? Both married in their 30s to women in their 20s. That's a stretch. That's a fucking stretch. Both were shot on a Friday.

Okay. Once you get on a roll, though, it starts to feel like it's adding up. That's called confirmation bias. Both were shot in the head. Yeah. Both were shot in the presence of their wives. Okay. Both were assassinated by Southerners, Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth from Maryland,

Harvey Oswald from New Orleans. Both of the president's successors were named Johnson. Lincoln succeeded by Andrew Johnson, Kennedy by Lyndon B. Johnson. So we think of this as like a glitch in the matrix. Yeah. They've accidentally repeated it. Just control C, control V. Yeah.

Both successors were born in 08. Andrew Johnson, 1808. Lyndon Johnson, 1908. I mean, these are pretty, there's some big good wild connections here. Yeah. Both assassins, John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald, are known by three names.

That's pretty common though, right? Especially back then. Each assassin's full name is composed of 15 letters. Finally, Lincoln was shot at Ford's Theatre and Kennedy was shot in a Ford car, a Lincoln limousine. Oh, yes. Love that. That's great.

I hate that. That one gets me over the edge. Oh, yeah. It was an inside job. Honestly. If only the theatre was called Kennedy Ford Theatre, then I'd be like, whoa. Yeah.

Illuminati confirmed, but I think we're just shy of that maybe. Illuminati suspected. Yeah. Speaking of the car, the Lincoln, this blew my mind. The presidential limousine that JFK died in was stripped and rebuilt and then used by the next three presidents. Ah. This time they put on a solid top that couldn't be taken off.

I don't know that I'd want that. No, I just would have thought that they'd just get a new car. Yeah. Is there a budget issue or something? Yeah, must have been. Must have been budgetary. Can't afford a new car. Another thing that I found really surprising,

but also I suppose not surprising because someone's got to, but also dying on the same day as JFK and being massively overshadowed was writer Aldous Huxley, author of Brave New World, and also writer C.S. Lewis, author of The Chronicles of Narnia. Talk about being overshadowed. I'm not saying that's a conspiracy. I just thought it was interesting. Do you think maybe that C.L. Lewis or whoever you just said was in on it somewhere?

Yeah, I reckon. No, that was probably a grim fact, would you say, Matt? I think I missed the fact. What was the fact? Oh, C.S. Lewis also died on the same day, but no one remembers. Oh, C.S. Lewis. Yeah, that's a shame. Sorry to hear that, C.S. Lewis. Yeah, that's a shame. Sorry to hear that, C.S.

In conclusion to this two-part report, I'm sorry to say I don't know for sure who or why John F. Kennedy was shot in 1963. Oh, you think it's a mystery. My gut feeling is that if it was a conspiracy and it was Lyndon B. Johnson and the CIA or the Soviets possibly all working together with the mob, some say, my main issue, my question is, no one seems to really bring this up, but why murder JFK in such a public place in such a risky way?

A sniper or possibly multiple snipers hitting a moving car from 80 metres away? It just seems so difficult. Yeah. Yeah, if the killer wasn't actually in the car. Oh. Yeah. There you go.

You think it was Nellie? I think Nellie could have been involved. You'd wash your mouth out. That's why he wore the Band-Aidaid because the ricochet caught him on the cheek. All right my main question is why not get someone to shoot him with the pistol from the thousands upon thousands of people that was close enough to shake hands with him on the trip if you want to take him out like quickly the way that Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald. Yeah. To me just the way he was killed was just so audacious, so unlikely.

Right. If he was a patsy, wouldn't, yeah. Wait, if he was, yeah, well, I guess so he thought he was going to get away with it, I guess. Yeah. But for me, like if you're planning a massive audacious thing like that, why have so much risk where you're getting a guy who's a pretty good shot, but not the best shot in the world, taking in the world, sniping someone from a long way away. It just seems so, and if you miss, then you're likely to get in even more trouble. And honestly, I know it's scary to consider that someone that's just 24 years old, a 24-year-old loser with a gun, can change the history of the world in 5.6 seconds,

and I think a lot of people don't want to accept that. They find comfort in the fact that there's like the whole government agencies are involved in the cover-up. Yeah, because I guess, I don't know why, for some reason they feel like, well, there's just some control there. It's not so fucking random that just, you know, this guy who couldn't get anyone to join his club can, yeah, like change world history.

Yeah. But the world, it did change that day, especially America. In his book Libra, Don Delilo, the author describes the murder of the president as, quote, the seven seconds that broke the back of the American century. Wow. And it's one of those massive events. Everyone talks about it like 9-11.

If you're alive, then you remember where you were when you heard about JFK being killed. Yeah. Yeah, I was I was on the grassy night did you tell anyone about it views great view yeah yeah but anyway not much to tell you're facing the wrong way so what when they say it broke the back of the American century they think because I mean America's been going pretty well since then still, hasn't it? Or is it not as well? Well, it's more, I think, like, you know, the American dream, the ideal, all that sort of stuff.

Like, it's just all a bit. Gotcha. So John Fitzgerald Kennedy was just 46 years old when he died. During a state funeral, 250,000 people lined up for as long as 10 hours in near-freezing temperatures to pay their respects. Over the next three years, an estimated 16 million people visited his grave and the eternal flame that accompanied it. The site of which was designed by John Carl Warnicke. Whoa. His name is spelled slightly different to mine, but still, I thought that

that was something. Is he in the cougar camp or the killer camp? He's a coug. He's a coug. Now, in conclusion, we could literally do an entire podcast show about the Kennedys. So much has happened to that family. The JFK assassination is only one part of the so-called Kennedy curse that has afflicted them.

So for my next Patreon bonus episode next month, I'm going to cover the rest of the curse, so I'm not quite done with the Kennedys yet. Oh, interesting. Oh, cool. So, yeah, the Kennedy curse. I've heard of a few things. There was a plane crash.

Well, I mean, we've already covered a couple of things. We've – Kennedy died in a plane crash. So did Jack's older brother, Joe Jr., blew up in a plane. The horrible stuff that happened to Rosemary and then JFK. But there is more, and I will cover that in the, I think the first week of November if you want to subscribe to our Patreon, I will cover the rest of the story. Great work, Dave.

Yeah, it's interesting to hear that story that, you know, I love those ones where you know bits and pieces of it and just to put it all together. Very interesting. But, yeah, obviously incredibly sad. Very sad. But if anyone has any theories, tweet us, email us, all that sort of stuff. I'd love to hear what you think.

Did you come across any theories that were just like kind of way out there, you know, like we have in previous episodes like the golden woman or the mole people or anything like that? It's mostly stuff like the babushka lady. Who was that lady? We don't know who she is so she must have been in on it when it's probably like someone's grandma that just was there. What was the scarf covering?

Was it her golden features? Yeah. There's like a bunch of people that aren't named, like the red woman is another. The lady who was just standing there wearing a red jacket. Adds a lot to the intrigue. Yeah. The umbrella man and all that sort of stuff.

Yeah, so they're some of the more. Some people have suggested that maybe Woody Harrelson's dad was involved. Oh, yeah, because he was convicted murderer, wasn't he? Yeah, stuff like that. It's just, yeah, there's so many little theories. I'd love to hear if people have a favourite or one that they think is the actual one because I'm still totally on the fence about it. I was just saying my main concern is it's just so audacious.

But maybe, you know, it's just so crazy it might work. And it did. So who knows? Woody Harrelson's father was charged with the murder of Judge John Wood after he was assassinated outside his San Antonio, Texas home in 1979. I said convicted. I'm not sure he was convicted. But he died in jail at the age of 69.

Nice. A little aside there. So that brings us to everyone's favorite section of the show where we get to thank a bunch of our great supporters uh the first thing we like to do oh you i should say if you want to support us go to dugonpod.com or patreon.com slash dugonpod sign up there's a bunch of different levels with all sorts of different uh rewards bonus episodes like dave was talking about if you want to hear that extra JFK or the Kennedy Curse episode, that will be coming out soon.

But there's already more than 120 episodes there once you sign up at a certain level. But the first thing we like to do is the fact, quote, or question section, which has a little jingle. I think it goes something like this. Fact, quote, or question. Ding. a little jingle i think you go something like this fact quote or question i always remembers the ding now uh the way to get involved with this is you sign up on the sydney schoenberg level or above and you get to give us a fact a quote or a question you also get all sorts of other great rewards um and once you've given us a once

you've signed up to that level you get to give us a fact a quote or a question then i'll read them out i don't read them until i read them so as i read them now i'm reading them for the first time that's my free excuse in case i um fumble uh so you also get to give yourself a title so the first one up this week comes from Paul Meller, who's given himself the title of Honorary Member of the Cult of Bill Bryson. Bracket, I own and have read some books. Funnily enough, Paul, I'm listening to a new Bill Bryson book, not a new one, but another Bill Bryson book at the moment,

Walk in the Woods, where he walked the, what was it? He says it so much. It's the AT, the Something walked the, what was it? He says it so much. It's the AT, the something trail. Appalachian? Is that a kind of the Appalachian Trail? Mm-hmm. I think in sort of Eastern America. It's Dolly Parton territory.

Ah, cool. Paul, I wonder if you've read that one. But Paul's offered us a quote this week, and this is Paul's quote. The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide. And that's from Henry wadsworth longfellow jeez i wonder if which kind of three-worded name he is that's a code that's definitely that's a kick uh that's from his poem loss and gain feels very apt for me most weekends following Oldham Athletic, Real Ove... Real... Real Ove...

I think it's the soccer team name. Real Ove do. That's not going to be right. And now the Saints. Thanks so much for getting on board with the Saints, Paul. He's watching from England and he's often got really constructive tweets after a tough loss. Is it emotionally confused? No, I think he sounds like he fully

gets it. He says he loves an underdog though. Life must be boring if your team wins every week. Very good. Thanks, Paul. Yeah, I like that. The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide. You familiar with his work, Dave? Henry Wadsworth Longfellow? No, I don't know. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. I like that. It's almost like Darkest Before the Dawn, that sort of thing. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Yeah, I like it too. Thanks for that, Paul. The next one comes from Gary J from the UK. He's offered us a fact and given himself the title of the captain. Love that, Gary. Just the captain. Straight to the point there. He's leading this team. And Gary's also offered, oh, no, he's offered a fact.

Gary's fact is, well, actually, it's a bit of a brag, really. Oh, love a brag. Yes, bring on a brag. This Saturday we had our last game of the cricket season. I needed 13 runs to finish the season with a 50 average. I managed a magnificent 7. A little Clash reference there, is it Dave?

That is a Clash song, yes. And ended up with a 49 average. So I did a bit of a Don. The ultimate tribute. Don Bradman finished just short of his 100 average. But that's not the brag. We got batted in the game and lost by over 200 runs. That's still not the brag.

The brag is we won the league, the first league win for the club ever, and I was captain, which makes me chuffed. Oh, great work. So you lost by 200 but won the league. Awesome. Yeah, it must have been up by so much that it didn't matter. Lost the battle, won the war. Congratulations. and a 49 average for the season's a great season of cricket yeah congratulations gaddy j especially for the champion first ever for the club too paul mellow we should take a

little bit of solace in that it is possible um underdogs can rise up. Thank you very much, Gaddy J. Next one comes from Tessa Chilcott, whose title is Miss Chilcott, simple, classy, self-important, and cry laughing emoji. Tessa has a question, which is, what is your favourite thing about doing this podcast? The friendship. Yeah, it's got to be the friendship. I was going to say, if anybody says anything other than the friendship,

you're out of the friendship. I think number one, friendship. Friendship. Number two, Instagram followers. I also love that we get to live, laugh, learn and live and laugh and lament as well. Yeah. Occasionally.

Yeah. It's important to lament. It's great. I just love catching up with Dave and Jess every week. In lockdown, it's been a real godsend, I'd say, to have this in the week. You want a bit of purpose? It does stress me out sometimes when I'm getting the reports prepared

and the clock is ticking. But I generally enjoy researching as well all these different kinds of topics. Wish I could also retain some more of the information. Yes, that would be my one wish too, to remember more. You retain everything. No. Like some of the John Wilkes Booth stuff, like I remember the dot points, but I'd love to know.

You remember that we did that topic. I remember the horse. I would have put money on the fact that we hadn't done that. Wow. Yeah, right. That's what I remember. I mean, normally I remember my own ones. Jess, another level for me where you'll sometimes forget

even ones you've researched yourself. Big time. I'm dumb. I don't know if that's all connected. I think memory is a, I mean, it's all, you know, whatever. It's all whatever. Memory makes you smart or not. Thank you very much for that question.

Tessa, anything else? Jess, it's mainly the friendship and the Instagram followers for you. Yeah. And that sometimes when we can record in person, we go out for lunch. Oh, that's nice. I like going out for lunch. Sometimes we have burritos. Yeah.

Nachos. Toasties. Get a coffee. I'm hungry. Yeah, I'm getting hungry. Thank you very much, Tessa. The final one for this week comes from Derek Brigham, who's given themselves the title of Chair of the Standing Desk Awareness Sit-In. And Derek has asked the question,

if you had to choose between being uncomfortably hot or uncomfortably cold, which would you pick? In this situation, you can't just get a blanket or change into shorts. You're stuck feeling either too hot or too cold. I think I've got a pretty easy answer for this one, I think. What's that? I'd definitely take too hot over too cold. Yeah, I'd take too hot, but I'm still not happy about it.

If I get too hot or too cold, I am a toddler. I just, I have a meltdown. I can't process feelings. I can't speak. I'll just throw a tantrum. Is that for hot and cold or just hot? Yeah, both. I'd have a meltdown in the cold. I'll just throw a tantrum. Is that for hot and cold or just hot? Yeah, both. I'd have a meltdown in the cold.

I'll find a way. What about you, Dave? You'll say cold just to be different. I think I'll say cold. It's not even just to be different. I think that I hate being really, really hot so much. I think I would take cold. I think if you could do something about it, I'd take cold

because I love rugging up. Yeah, and then you could just move to a better climate than Melbourne. But, like, what? You can't do anything about it. Either way, it sounds like a painful life. I hate rugging up. Yeah, right. It makes me feel too claustrophobic.

It's something like an oody personal nightmare for me. Too heavy. Yeah, okay. Too warm. I can't get out of it. I don't like hoodies that are too tight around the neck. I'm like, get out of there. I need some space.

Let me breathe. That's not – you can rug up in loose-fitting stuff though. Yeah, no, I just don't like it. Just layering it up. No, see, I hate that. I hate layers. Too many. You just want perfect temperature.

I mean, I think Melbourne sort of hits a you don't need to do too much for most of the year, right? It does get really hot for a while and pretty cold. All right, no, you're right. But, I mean, there's long shoulder seasons. Yeah, there's like six days a year when it's great. Those beautiful six days. We're in a real nice period at the moment, I reckon.

Autumn and spring generally, maybe I'm just having a short memory, but I think autumn and spring normally are pretty nice intermediate sort of things. It's not quite summer in my mind. It's not quite winter cold. It's not quite summer hot. And I think, you know, I think that's autumn. That's spring to me.

That's so interesting. Somewhere in between winter and summer. That's so interesting. That's just something that I've noticed. I would love you to talk more about this. Thanks. That's a good question, Derek. Thank you, Derek, Tessa, Gary and Paul.

I thought the question was going to be would you rather be uncomfortably hot or hotly uncomfortable? And it was going to be about how attractive you are. Like you're so hot that people like can't stand it and it's actually a hindrance to you enjoying your life. Or you're so hot you're uncomfortable, like as in temperature. Yeah, I would still take being freakishly beautiful. Freakishly hot.

I would say that. You can't walk into a room. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, people don't take me seriously because I'm so gorgeous. Shut up. Yeah, fair enough. Fair call.

I'll stop banging on about it. I don't even give the stipulation Derek wrote here. In this situation, or did I? You can't just get a blanket or change it into shorts. Yeah. Did I say that? You can't just put a paper bag over your head and stop people seeing your beautiful, beautiful face.

It's funny that I just mentioned about memory. I couldn't even remember from two minutes earlier. Another thing we like to do is thank a bunch of our supporters and normally Jess comes up with a bit of a game here to do is thank a bunch of our uh supporters and normally just comes up with a bit of a game here to do with this what do you think like assassination weapon or what what's the the fun vibe the only thing i could think of is um for each of them we give them something that lyndon be doing that is so good that is so good honestly i love so good. That's all I could think of. Honestly, I love it.

Maybe we just give them all the middle initial B. Yeah. And then it's whatever they're doing. Fantastic. Okay. Well, first up, if I could, I'd love to thank from Portland, Oregon in the United States, Ray Bradley. Ooh. They've got the initial B here.

Ray B Foxtrotten. Ooh, here. Ray B Foxtrotten. Ooh, yeah. Ray B Foxtrotten. Carve it up. Ray B isn't the ideal one, Ray B. But, yeah, Ray B Foxtrotten, fantastic. Thank you so much, Ray, for your support. I'd also love to thank from North York in Ontario, Canada,

it's Canadian Alison. We can just take Alison. Yeah, Canadian Alison B. American, funnily enough. Yeah, it's an ironic nickname. Well, no, maybe Canadian Alison has just taken America back for the whole of the North and South continents. Why does the US get to be called Americans?

Yeah. Canada's in America too. Yeah. So Canadian Allison's just making a stand, I think. And a beautiful stand at that. Thank you so much, Canadian Allison. And finally for me, I'd love to thank from Hurlstone Park in New South Wales in Australia, Carl

Setter. Ooh, Carl be squeezing the juice. Don't be wheezing the juice. I saw a TikTok of Pauly Shaw, current day Pauly Shaw, and somebody had commented asking him to say that line. So he did it. And I was like, it's still funny. Dave, would you like to thank some people? Yes, I'd love to thank now from Norway, which is pretty awesome,

from, I'm going to say this wrong, Sketten, Christian Nordheim. Christian B. Christian B. Flying. Flying. Oh. Like physically flying through the sky, up, up and away sort of thing. Wow. Superpowered.

That'd be nice. I'd love to give that a go. On you, Christian. Keep flying high over Norway. Beautiful. See the Northern Lights. Awesome. From Virginia now, Arlington, Virginia in the United States,

it's Jason M. But he's not Jason M. It's Jason B. Jason B. Hustlin'. Oh, always hustlin', Jason. I feel you, man. He's got a little fold-out table that he takes with him and he puts it down on the street

and he performs card tricks and close-up magic. Jason Statham style. Yes. Too late, too late will be to cry when the man with the bargain passed you by. Love that you had that in your brain. Excellent. That's real good. Well, like I said, my memory, it definitely holds on to the important things. Yeah, it's good. Jason, come by your card table. And finally for me, I'd like to thank from Plymouth in Great Britain, it's Rory Roberts. Rory.

Rory. B. B. Flossen. Flossen. Great dental hygiene. And the dental hygiene, yes. Hard to do both at once, but he found a way.

Rory. Rory finds a way, and I respect that. It takes quite a lot of floss. You need quite a long length of floss to do both at once, but that's the kind of stuff you can do. It is technically doable, yeah. I would love to bring this home, thank some people as well. I would love to thank, from Carlisle in Great Britain,

Maisie and Beth Walby. We went to Carlisle Castle, didn't we? Carlisle Castle. Did we? Did we not? I've no idea. I was not doubting you at all. I'm just, I've no idea.

We can't remember who went to a castle. Aren't they the ones who followed us on Twitter and we. Yeah, is that them? And we went to visit them or something? Am I making up part of that or all of it? I don't think that we did go there. Okay. Thank you.

Where did we go? Stirling Castle. Yeah, so we definitely went to Stirling Castle. That's what I'm confusing. We're sorry. But let me just say that Carlisle Castle does exist. There's so we definitely went to Stirling Castle. That's what I'm confusing with. Sorry. But let me just say that Carlisle Castle does exist. There's so many castles in England and Scotland that it exists. Have a stab.

There's probably a castle. It's in Cumbria near the ruins of Hadrian's Wall. There you go. 900 years old. What are Maisie and Beth up to? Maisie and Beth be cozy. Cozen. Cozen. Cozen. Cozen.

Cozen. Cozen. I'm picturing them by the fire, rubbing their hands, putting them up. Got a little hot choccies. Hot choccies. The marshmallow. What are those marshmallow biscuit things that they do? Schnaps.

Schmores. That's a schmore. That's a schmore. Ring-a-ding-a-ding. That's the schmorays. That's the schmorays. That's the schmorays. Ring-a-ding-a-ding. That's nice. But they're in Great Britain, but they possibly won't. I mean, I've learned a bit about American culture, so I know a thing or two about a schmoray or whatever,

but maybe they won't know about those over in Cotloy. Well, they do now. Spreading the good word. You get a cracker, some marshmallow, bit of chocolate. Ta-da. Thank you, Maisie and Beth. I would also love to thank from Yakult in Washington, Ben T. Is that the home of probiotics?

Yeah. Wow, that's cool. It's the home of that little Korean drink. Probiotics? Yeah. Wow, that's cool. It's the home of that little Korean drink. Ben B. And Ben B.

Bubblin'. Bubblin'. Blowing bubbles, you know. Popping bottles of bubbles. Yeah, bubblin'. Everything is bubbles, bubbles, bubbles. Yeah. Getting in the spa.

He's obsessed with bubbles. In a lockdown bubble. Yeah. With New Zealand. Got a, bubbles. Yeah. Getting in the spa. He's obsessed with bubbles. In a lockdown bubble. Yeah. With New Zealand. Got a bubble buddy. Yeah. Benny's all about bubbles. He's really made bubbles his personality and I respect that.

Loves bubble wrap. Loves bubble wrap. Wraps about bubbles. And finally, to bring it home, I would love to thank from Vancouver in Canada, Josh Angle. Josh B. Hypotenusin. Yes.

Josh B. Solvin for the hypotenuse. Now, does that make sense mathematically, Dave? Do you solve for the hypotenuse? Well, I mean, you just find out what it is. Okay. It's the longest side of the triangles. You do your A squared plus B squared kind of stuff. You're Pythagoras. Oh yeah, Josh be Pythagorizing. I like that. Thank you so much to Josh, Ben, Maisie, Beth, Rory, Jason, Christian, Carl,

Josh, Ben, Maisie, Beth, Rory, Jason, Christian, Carl, Canadian, Alison, and Ray. The last thing we like to do is welcome people into the Triptych Club. It's a solo attendee this week. Oh. So anyone who signed up three years ago and have remained on the shout-out level since then, they get welcomed into the Triptych Club. So normally what we do is I read out the name.

I'm standing at the door. I've got the door list here ready to go. Just one name on the list this week. As I welcome you, I'll read out your name. You jump into the Triptych Club and Dave will hype you up. He's in there on the mic emceeing the night. And Jess is sort of standing. I picture her standing nearby, maybe just behind him,

behind his shoulder, just yelling sort of affirmations at Dave as well. I'm whisper yelling. Yeah, whisper yelling. Jess normally comes up with a cocktail. Yes. Are you still doing the JFK or have you got a different thing this week? No, we're doing the JFK as well as the Lee Harvey Oswald. Ooh.

What's in that? The LHO. So it's got lime, Hennessy. Oh, wow. And orange juice. Oh, okay. It is not good. Hennessy.

But your own thing. I think if you, lime and orange sounds good, Hennessy sounds good. Yeah, citrusy, it's fresh. Got to be even better. Yeah. Some of its parts. And Dave normally books a band. Oh, my goodness.

We've got the absolute beautiful music playing his hit song, History Repeats Itself. It's Cab Calloway. Yes. I have to show you this song afterats Itself. It's Cab Calloway. Yes. I have to show you this song after we record this. So Cab's reading out these facts? Is that what he said? That's what he does on the song, yeah.

It's amazing. Cannot wait to hear it. Is he wearing his tails? I picture him in the suit with the tails. Yeah, he's always in tails. He's got them. All right. Well, the one person, tails. Yeah, he's always in tails. He's got them. All right. Well, the one person, and everyone else has already been welcomed in before

because once you're in the club, you're always in the club, if you want to be. Actually, either way, it's a real Hotel California scenario. So, Dave, you ready to go? I mean, I feel a bit of pressure. I've got to get this one right. There is a lot of pressure on this. Yes.

Very appropriately located as well from Washington, D.C., right there at Capitol Hill in the United States. It's Adriana Genoldi. Adriana has great karma. Come on down. Yes, Dave. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Boop, boop, boop, boop. Adriana Genoldi. Hopefully I'm in the ballpark there. Welcome in, Adriana. So good to have you here in the club. Have a coldie with Genoldi. Oh, fucking hell, that's good. Are you kidding me?

Thank you. To there, Adriana. Just take your pick. So thank you, everyone, for listening. Anything else we need to say, Boppa? I don't think so. As per usual, you can get in touch with us or suggest a topic or check out all the topics we've previously done,

like John Wilkes Booth, which we all remember, over at dogoonpod.com. You can email us at dogoonpod at gmail.com, dogoonpod on all the socials. And, you know, just another little tip of the hat to you, Dave, a mammoth report, two mammoth reports that you've done there. I hope you sleep very well tonight. Thank you, I will.

I literally did not move from the couch for eight hours today. Just talking to you. My back is ruined for you people. What have we got? Six, no, five more, no, six more topics to go in block. Very exciting because that was my long, last week was my longest ever report. This week it was even longer by the word count.

Yeah, so it's only our second ever two-parter episode. We did World War I maybe earlier in the year. I'm literally dreaming about JFK at the moment. That's how I'm being obsessed with him. He is a dreamy, dreamy guy. What a dreamy. What a dreamboat. So, yes, can't wait to come back next week with another fresh topic.

And it's even more requested than this. So how big could it be? The biggest block ever, baby. I don't think I've mentioned this before, but we had the most votes ever for a block this year. Yeah. So this is like in every way this is the biggest block we've ever done. The most democratic block.

Everyone had their say and we listened. Just like JFK would have wanted it. Exactly. He wasn't a corrupt sort of guy, was he? No, he's from the Democrat Party. Okay, there you go. You can trust these guys. All right, Dave, bring this baby home.

Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back next week with that new episode. But until then, I will say thank you and goodbye. Later. Bye. Bye. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water.

We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future.