Do Go On - 319 - Vincent Gigante, The Oddfather

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

On this episode we track the rise of 'The Five Families' of New York City's Mafia and in particular follow the life of Vincent "The Chin" Gigante. Also nicknamed "The Oddfather," Gigante was a mob boss who faked illness for DECADES to avoid being brought to justice.Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: dogoonpod.com or patreon.com/DoGoOnPod Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-Topic Stream our 300th episode with extra quiz (and 16 other episodes with bonus content): https://sospresents.com/authors/dogoon Check out our AACTA nominated web series: http://bit.ly/DGOWebSeries​ Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader Thomas REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/20/obituaries/vincent-gigante-mob-boss-who-feigned-incompetence-to-avoid-jail.htmlhttps://www.britannica.com/biography/Salvatore-Maranzanohttps://www.britannica.com/biography/Lucky-Luciano https://www.sunjournal.com/2005/12/20/mafia-oddfather-vincent-chin-gigante-dies-us-prison-77/https://www.vice.com/en/article/5gqpzk/the-strange-saga-of-the-odd-father-the-mob-boss-who-faked-mental-illness Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. And welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Jess Perkins.

And as always, I'm here with Matt Stewart and Dave Warnocky. Hello, Jess. So good to be here. So great to be here. Off from Mike, we said we'll just get straight into the episode this week. No mucking around. Hang on a second. But I did it perfectly.

You absolutely nailed it. While we're here, Jess, would you like to explain to a new listener what this podcast is all about? Well, seeing as I'm on a roll, yes. So what we do each week is one of us goes away, researches a topic, brings it back to the other two and tells them that tale. The other two politely listen, sometimes interrupt with questions, queries or comments. Yeah, sometimes some tedious asides happen. Sometimes it reminds us of a thing we saw one time. Some personal life stories you don't need to know.

And you don't care about, but we tell them anyway. And we always get onto the topic with a question. And Dave, this week it is your turn to do the report. Have you got a question for us? I do have a question for both of you. And here it is the first post-block topic. So hopefully this doesn't... Disappoint.

Drag. I'm bored. We're hung over from Block, but hey, we're rocking into this topic. I mean, it's festive season. We're leading up to Kishmish for a year. So there's a whole new reason to be happy and joyful. Magical. And checking your list and checking it again.

You know, Christmas. Yeah. Well, now we're feeling better. What is the answer to this question? What is made up of the so-called five families? Ooh, water, earth, wind, fire, heart. But, go, butt man. Did we get it?

Yeah, absolutely. Marti, with the power of heart slash butt. The five, what was it? Is it five families? Is that a mafia thing? It is the New York City Mafia. Ooh. That's exciting.

Count them. One, two, three, four, five. Heart. Sopranos. I mean, they're south, south. New York, obviously in New Jersey. You know, we've got the Altoes. The Quiet voice.

That's funny. That's good stuff. Do you get it? Altoes. Now I do. That's good stuff, Dave. My topic is specifically on a member of the New York City Mafia, but we will get him. I'm going to give you a bit of a background.

Okay. Are you going to get us killed? Yeah. Don't worry. I'm hopefully talking about people. that are long dead. Okay, hopefully. I think I feel comfortable as someone who is one quarter Swiss Italian.

It'll be nice to learn about my people a little bit more. Really bumps up the quarter when he needs to. Yeah, when he really picks and chooses. My life is under threat. I didn't correct you today because I also need you to be protected by you. I offer you my protection. You get like, you wake up, a sack gets taken off your head and you're like tied to a chair and you're in the Italian mafia and you just go,

Alara. And they're like, ah, he's one of us. Vabbani, Vabbini. A chow. I picture, I don't know if this says anything about me, but I pictured a ball sack taken off his head. A sack's taken off his head. It's you.

It's you I'm talking about. I'm teabag, Dave. So the ball sack is removed. And you're going, verbany. Well, now you can see. Okay. Everything's looking up. Five families.

Yeah, classy start. The American mafia or the Italian American mafia, as it's also known, dates back to the end of the 19th century. Wow. The five family crime organisations of New York City, however, were formed in 1931. Oh, good year. Did anything happen in 1931? No, fantastic stuff happening in 1931. Yeah, all sorts of stuff was happening.

Or yes and didn't want a premiership or something? Yeah, the Great Depression was really kicking off, I think. Great times all around. It's a good time. to be a prime minister. Tell you that for sure. I think so. I could be wrong.

Jess's... It was in the depression. My grandpappy. Your grandpappy was the prime minister? In 31, bloody hell. I think so. Anyway, continue.

So before 1931, a guy called Salvatore Maranzano instigated the 1930 Castella Maraisi war in order to seize control of the entire American mafia. Really went to...

Had a big play. He went up against a man described Britannica as New York's crime overlord, Joe Giuseppe Massaria, which is where the war, the name of the war comes from. There was a series of killings that finally stopped when Joe Masseria himself was killed by his own men. Oh.

More on that later. So wait, is he the one who started the war? No, his opponent, Salvatore Maranzano. Oh, wow. Was successful in the end. Yeah, he had a bit of a coup. Jess, fact check on the 1931? I think so.

Fantastic. That's the kind of fact check and I like to hear. So when you're on your phone just saying you were just looking at Instagram rather than fact check. No, I looked it up and then I got distracted and so, but I'm with you. What's his name again? James Stratton.

James Scullin. James Scullin. Fuck, that was close though. Yeah, not bad. James. David, pleased to go on. So I'm trying to paint a picture. Salvatore Maranzano won the war. He's the one that started it.

He won it. And he formed the five families declaring himself to be. the capo de tuti capi or boss of all bosses. So the mafia is made up of... Because I is the plural of O in Italian. So capo de capi. Oh, thank you so much.

Yeah. Fabern. And E is the plural of A. Just so you know. Now the mafia is made up of what are called made men. They're basically the members. Okay. To become made, an associate first must be Italian or of Italian descent.

and be sponsored by another made man. So, Justin, you and I, we can't be made man. No. But Matt, we're not of a time. You're in with a chance. Yeah. Fantastic. A verbeni.

For beni. Maltabani. Now, an inductee is required to take the oath of omerta, the mafia code of silence and code of honour. Wow. Basically, you never snitch. Because snitches get smack on the hand. Yeah.

First one. First warning. Stop it. Hey. Stop. Stop it. That's why they call me Maddie tight lips.

I ain't saying nothing. See, honestly, you could be made, Matt. Matt, where were you yesterday? Your lips are so tight, they. It forms a trumpet like seal. I want to tell you. We're supposed to be it for coffee. You never turned up.

I'm worried about you, man. So after seizing power, Marazano ordered the families to undergo a structural reorganisation. And the hierarchy became soldier, then capo or captain, then consigliary. Consigliary, then underboss, and then top boss. Wow. And then he'd be above all of them. I'm already lost at that order. So it's soldier, captain, consigliary, underboss, boss.

Okay. It's sort of five levels. Yeah, right. The agreement was that each of the five families would respect the interests and territories of others, and disputes would be arbitrated. Okay. In 1931, the crime families were Maranzano, who's the absolute top dog. He's got his own family, then he's the overarching guy. Then Profacci, Mangano, Luciano, and the Gagliano families.

These families still exist, but are now known different names. They got renamed after other powerful people. Now we've got Banano. Colombo, Gambino, Genovese and the Lucheseezy families. Whoa. You know, Banana was in there? Yeah, that's right.

Okay. I'm going to stop egging Mark's car. I would too. But after the war and power struggle, Salvatore Maranzano named himself the capo de tuti capio, boss of all bosses, meaning that each of the other four families' bosses would answer to him. He's the top dog.

and his grip on total power lasted a whopping four months. So I said watching Sopranos, I was thinking, what a stressful life. Yeah. It does seem very stressful. Yeah, it's not for me. People are knocking each other off. You'd just be doing everything sort of on edge, you know? Just trying to go get dinner with the fam for Nonna's birthday,

and you look it over your shoulder the whole time. Yeah, scheming against each other. Yeah, stressful. A lot of power plays. Yeah. Yeah, very, or, you know, even, you know, they think you've done something wrong. We think they've snitched. Yeah.

And you might get a slap on the wrist. Yeah. I wasn't even looking. Ow! That hurt. Doin. Stuff like that. Yeah.

No good. Scary stuff. So Marizan is in charge of four months. Apparently the other crime bosses didn't like that they supposedly now had their own boss. Yeah, that makes some sense. Yeah. I understand that. Also, Maranzano was seen by his younger and ambitious colleagues as a man stuck in his ways.

They thought of him as a real, quote, mustache Pete. Oh, yeah. Telling me. Oh, bloody mustache Pete over here. What does that mean? Mustache Pete was a member of the Sicilian mafia who came to the United States as an adult in the early 20th century. Named so because back then they often had large mustaches. Okay.

Well, that's pretty clever nickname. Yeah, that's not bad. But it's funny because they often had mustaches. So the thing that makes him stand out is the mustache? Yeah. Well, the younger members were often called Young Turks. So it was sort of split into these generations. One of these ambitious younger members was Charles Lucky Luciano.

Oh, I've heard of him. He's a very famous mobster. That's probably I've heard of him. Lucky Luciano. I like that. He was one of the five bosses. Remember one of the families? It's called the Luciano.

Yeah. And by many occasions, accounts was a bit of a bad ass. One of these accounts is immortalised by Britannica and I'll read it to you now. Quote, in October 1929, he became the rare gangster to survive a one-way ride. He was abducted by four men in a car, beaten, stabbed repeatedly with an ice pick, had his throat slit from ear to ear and was left for dead on Staten Island Beach, but survived. What?

He never named his abductors. Wow. In quote. Nah, that's very good. His name, Lucky. I thought it was just because it sounded like Luciano. Yeah. Lucky Luciano.

It's just a bit of alliteration. He was called Lucky Luciano because apparently, for a long time, the cops couldn't get him. They get other people around him, but they couldn't, Charter's just wouldn't stick to him. And they were like, the fact that his throat was cut from ear to ear and survived. That's fuck. That's crazy. And stabbed with an ice pick as well. And they just left him out there to bleed to death, and he survived.

And after that. Was it the kind of thing where he was stabbed with the ice pick? and then they all clear out and he goes and he opens his chest and his Bible has saved him. Yeah. You know, something like that. Yeah, I love when that happens. Or is wearing an ice pick proof vest. Yeah.

You look closer and he's wearing a necklace of a Bible around his throat. Yeah. Cut the cover? Damn it. He was also wearing a Bible around his neck. They've just slashed his Bibles. Which is disrespectful. Yeah, that's bad luck.

He was also the man who lured Joe Masseria to a restaurant to have him killed by his own men. That was the killing that ended the war I mentioned at the start. So he was the one responsible for that. So at first him and Maranzar, he was working with Maranzano. But then Marizano was basically like, no, I'm the boss now. And he did not like that. Because really the war was only just beginning because Lucky Luciano wasn't happy with the

boss of all bosses. So by September 1931, Marizano, the big boss, realized Lucky Luciano was a threat and hired Vincent Mad Dog Cole, an Irish gangster to kill him. Isn't that, it's just an interesting world where you're like, if you look like you're going for too much, you're a threat. If you're not going for enough, you look weak. Yeah. So there's like this tiny middle ground that you've got to stay in the whole time to survive.

When do you get a break? I know it's work and obviously your career motivated and that's good for you. But I mean, when do you get to just put your feet up? Yeah. Read a book, get a massage. Are there rules about this, Dave? Yeah, what are the rules? Do they get annual leave?

Yeah, and you get one massage a month. Oh, that's not bad, actually. A kill-free massage. Yeah. Hey, hey, nothing weird. You can relax here. Yeah. That's where relaxation massages, the term came from.

Yeah. Because, yeah, the first ones where you would be guaranteed not to die. Yeah. And that was relaxing. Just that thought. Oh, I'm not going to die for the next 50 minutes. There's not even a masseuse. You're just in a room going, oh.

You'd have a lie down. This is nice. Oh, my shoulders feel so much looser. So Mad Dog Irish Gangsters been sent to kill him. However, Tommy Luchese alerted Luciano that he was marked for death. So on September 10, Marizano, the boss of all bosses, ordered Luciano and Genevese to come into his office in Manhattan, two of the other crime bosses.

Fearing for his own life and convinced that Marizano planned to use this time to murder him, lucky Luciano decided to act first. the hunter had become the hunted. Oh. If it bleeds, kill it. Huh? Some of that. Predator?

Is that relevant? Haven't seen it. Just note was quoted to the Brisbane Lions before they beat Essend in 2001. If it bleeds, kill it. If you bleed, you can kill it. It was a real first big step for man moment there. I've missed out a key word.

Is there also, do they also say the line, you're one ugly motherfucker. Oh, that's beautiful. That's not the predator line. That's Arnie talking to the predator. That's got a little bit of a vote. You might hear that in sopranos, right? Yeah. You are one ugly motherfucker.

I can see that being said there. Sorry if that accent was a bit too far, but like I say, one quarter Swiss Italian. Yeah, you're allowed. Take that. I mean, I don't know if I have any New York or New Jersey Italian relatives, but I assume I do. Yeah.

and I did a pretty thick. That was a pretty thick accent there, wasn't it? That was a bit much, actually. I didn't get what you said. You're one ugly motherfucker. Sorry if that's too American. I'm not actually getting anything you're saying. Too strong.

Yeah, it's too strong, the accent. Let the record show that he did use his hands. He did. Look, we speak with our hands. I'm sorry. No, no, please don't apologize. I was just, yeah, I just cannot understand what you're saying. I'm so sorry.

So sorry. It's a bit of a... Mikiamo, Matthew. Oh, your name is Matthew. See? Yes. You've gone from the person who couldn't understand it, the translator. Very quickly.

That was what's funny. I can't understand you when you're speaking English. He's a little Italian. I'm like, ah, yeah. See, see, see. Ah, it's the cozy, cosy. Van. So, Lichiana's been called...

David. Andiamo. Thank you so much. Is that shut the hell up? No. I would never say that to you in Italian. So Luchiana's been caught into the big boss's office. He's like, this guy's going to whack me.

Instead of going to the office himself, Luciano sent four Jewish gangsters who would not be recognized by Maranzano's men. Oh, so that's probably why he chose the Irish guy as well, right? Like he outside of their own kind of community. Yeah, but hang on, why is he sending his hitman? Oh, hang on. Why is that my enemy's hitman here?

Oh, hey, Greg, the hitman heart. How's it going? Good to see you. Oh, no. So he sent these four Jewish gangsters, disguised as government agents, two of the gangsters disarmed Maranzano's bodyguards. The other two stabbed the boss multiple times before shooting him dead. Whoa. So like I say, the hunter became the hunter. This is the boss of all bosses. And instead of declaring himself to be capo de tuti as many expected,

Lucky Luciano decided to completely abolish the role, believing it created tension and trouble between the families, and would make him a target for future ambitious young challenges. Yeah, that makes sense. He's like, I took him out. I don't want anyone to take me out. Yeah, he's protecting his own butt there. So he's sort of doing like a triumvirate plus two.

Plus two. So instead he set up what's called the commission. What's the word you just said? Triumvirate plus. Triumvirate? Triumvirant. What's that? Isn't that it's like the Romans when they had three in charge or something?

Oh, I'm not having a guy. I just did not know that word. I thought you were still doing that bit weird. No, sorry. I'm not getting any of this. No, no, no, I just, I didn't know that word. Well, look. And you both looked like, yes.

I'm losing confidence in it by the second. Sorry. Yeah, there's two triumphance. Right. Sorry, but this is the commission. Yeah. The commission was a ruling committee to oversee all mafia activities in the United States and served to mediate conflicts between families.

That's interesting that they've gone from going, we don't want to have an overarching thing here, creates trouble. We're now going to overarch all of America. That'll be easier. Yeah. I think that'll be smoother. The commish. It consisted of the bosses of the five families that I've already talked about, so the New York City-based ones, as well as the bosses of the Buffalo crime family and the Chicago outfit, who at the time... Deep Dish. In charge was a man named Al Capone.

Oh, Al Deep Dish Capone. Al Windy Capone. Well, you have enough deep dish, you're going to be Wendy. So, I mean, yeah, that's interesting. So they're going, we're sort of usurping his power. We're going to, from miles away, we're going to be his boss now. No, no, no. It's basically, they're saying they're all on a level playing field.

Right. And the idea is that you respect each other's territories. Like, whatever you do in Chicago, that's your business. Yeah. And I went interview with your shit. You don't interview with my shit. And then the commission agreed to hold meetings every five years or when they needed to discuss family problems.

So say they've got a problem with the, feds cracking down on them something, they call a meeting and all the heads go to an agreed location and pop us out. They just leave the bodies behind. Man, if you're going to regret things you say, you have to do it audibly. We need to hear the regret, my friend.

I think they probably heard it. It is fun to see it as well though, isn't it? You didn't even get through the word bodies and you're already turning away. Like, fuck. I hate myself. So that's a little background on the five families and the commission. Okay.

Is there any connection between the five families and a five cheese pizza? Name the five cheeses. Oh, what do we got? Well, I've got the Bonadonna's. Got the Cheeses. We're going to get killed. Mascoponais. Is that one?

Yeah, that's one. That's fun. Well, you even remember the last guy. I thought what's going on. I'm on very little sleep. You're very tired. And I'm having fun with that. Yeah.

She's messing with you, man. Hey, I'm bringing out the best in him, I think. I agree, I agree. So I've got the five families of the commission, which is, you're really... The Parmesan. Seven families, including the Parmajani's. Great to have him on board. But we now come to the main character at the...

this week's episode, Vincent Giganti. Oh yeah, of the Gouda clan. That's the Gouda stuff. Born in New York City in 1928, throughout his life, he would be known as the chin, or simply chin. Oh, I love that. The chin. The chin or chin. Were they picking on him?

Did he have a very prominent chin? No, according to Time magazine, Giganti got the nickname Chin from his mother who would call him Chinzino. Okay. That was her little nickname for him then. People called him Chin. What's Chin Zeno mean, I wonder? I think that was like from a version of Vincent in her native dialect. Yeah, gotcha.

Or something like that. Yep. And then they... And then he just became Chin or the Chin. He was one of five... Is the chin one of the heads? He'd be on one of the heads. Well, we've got to find out how far this chin goes.

Okay. Chin was one of five sons of Salvatore and Yolanda Giganti. Both first generation. immigrants from the Italian city of Naples. Napoli. Thank you, Jess. Thank you. So when Dave says it with his German accent, it sounds so rough.

Yeah. Naples. When you say with that beautiful Italian accent, it just makes me think, I'm. What was the Swiss elves? Up on the northern border. So Salvatore the father was a watchmaker and Yolanda was a seamstress. Three of his brothers, Mario, Pascuale and Ralph, also became involved in a life of organised crime.

Jeez, Ralph got Mario Pasquale, yes, go on. Ralph. I love the name, Ralph. Ralph, as in the euphemism for spewing your guts up. So they all became part of the organised crime. However, their brother, Louis,

became a Catholic priest. Oh, good boy, Louis. It's always one way of the other, isn't it? Gigante dropped out of school and became a professional light heavyweight boxer, which is awesome because his nickname is The Chin. Oh, yeah. being a boxing.

That's great. I just realized that. He won 21 of the 25 matches he fought between 1944 and 1947. It's pretty good. I bet it was this kind of boxing too. Yeah, yeah. Put them up, put them up, put them up. Yeah.

I love that kind of boxing. Yeah. Well, the New York Times refers to it as blub boxing, and blub boxes in those days fought for between four and six round contests in neighborhood arenas, usually getting a percentage of the tickets they sold themselves. But at least one of his fights was fought at Madison Square Garden. Wow. Named after James Madison, one of the United States presidents, maybe an early one.

Very, in the first five. And so was Madison Avenue. Don't call me baby. The band. Great band. So famous that they named a street after them. Can you please that? That's the ultimate.

You know, that's the goal for any musician, I think. Having a street named after you. Oh yeah, big time. JCDC Lane in Melbourne. Yeah. Imagine Jess Street. Jess Lane. I think there's an Amphlet Lane.

There's a campaign to have a Davy Lane. Oh, that's good. Which is pretty good. That's good. His name's Davey Lane. Yeah. I do not get that. From you or my.

Davey Lane. Taurus and his other band. Maybe the pictures or the photographs or something. Oh no. I don't know. I don't know. When he was a teenager, the chin became the protege of Vito Genovese. A childhood friend of Lucky Luciano and the guy who they'd later rename the Genovese crime family after.

The name it is still known as to this day. So he's going to be a big deal. Right. The Geno cheesy. Future crime boss, Mr. Genovese, endeared himself to the Gigante family when Vincent the chin was a boy, when he gave him a loan to pay for surgery that his mother needed. So Genevesey paid for the surgery, but in exchange, he now owes him for life. Between 17 and 25, Giganti was busy ingratiating himself with a family.

He was arrested seven times on an array of charges, receiving stolen goods, possession of an unlicensed handgun, auto theft, arson and bookmaking. Most of these were dismissed or resolved by fines, and only one arrest resulted in a jail sentence, which was just 60 days for a gambling conviction. and when arrested in his early 20s, the chin listed his occupation as a tailor. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I'll tell you your face to my fist.

He used to say real badass up of that. Yeah, that's very cool. You're going to stitch your fist to my face? Yeah. And then I'll bring your pants in. I'll make him three sides are too small. Yeah. Yeah, that'll hurt.

Yeah, it'll look like an idiot. Yeah, not enough room around your crotch. Yeah, that's right. To be honest, you've always got too much room around your crotch. All right, here we go. You got a small dick! Davy Lane's band was the pictures. Okay, great.

Again from the New York Times, former New York City detectives who are assigned to organized crime intelligence units said that Mr. Giganti earned his mafia spurs as an enforcer in the 1950s, not surprising for a pretty tough former pro boxer, but now he was a full-time gangster. Wow.

What a proud moment when you go full-time. Oh, yeah. Throw away that old tailoring job. Yeah, you can finally support yourself as a gangster. That's exciting. Tell you boss, piss off. I'm going to be a gangster now. Yeah.

All right. Don't cross me. What a gangster move that is. Full gangster. I guess, you know, technically speaking. You also had a very busy personal life. He resided with his family consisting of his wife Olympia and five children in New Jersey. Olympia is a sick name.

Great name. Well, oh no. Okay. Great. No, I'm excited at your own board because he also maintained his second family at a townhouse in Manhattan with three children to his longtime mistress and common-law. wife also named Olympia. Whoa. You know what?

Two Olympias. That is actually quite convenient. You can't say the wrong name. Exactly. In the throes of passion. I love you Olympia. If one of them makes you get a tattoo of their name, easy. No problem.

No having, not having to explain that to the other one. I'd name the kids the same thing too. Oh, yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So he had eight kids. Yeah. Some people just love home life so much.

They were on it twice. You know when you're a game. Thanks when you've got so much time he decided to have a second family. I mean, there's already one of... Home life's so nice. You got it twice. In New York, New York.

That makes a lot of sense. And he's already part of the five families. Now he's got a second family. It's very confusing. Oh my God. Too many people in this, to be honest. So both named Olympia, though. He's got a type, doesn't he?

Yeah. One of the Olympias. Loves him. All both families in the same city? No, one's in New Jersey and one was in Manhattan. So he had a bit of a... So you had the pike. How do you explain that?

How do you explain that? Yeah, and what, like, away every second day on business? Yeah. I feel like that they knew about each other. Okay. I don't think it was fully secret. You didn't say secret second family. Yeah, he didn't.

Sort of like the Simon Says game. If you don't say secret, then you don't have to do what he says. It's just legit a second family. Yeah. I just got a couple families. They're my common law wife, and this is my law wife. But I've called Olympia? Yeah.

Super easy. Have you caught up yet? I'm not going to go over it again. God, it's so boring because it's just so normal to me. I've got two wives named Olympia in different cities. Whatever. Any genuinely interesting questions? Yeah.

God, want to ask my favourite colour or something. Oh my gosh, come on. Might surprise you. It's green. I'm a full-time gangster. Can we talk about that? Yeah. That's pretty interesting.

I've got full-time. I've got full-time. I've got full-time, man. I've got like three guns. You don't know. I'm that interested in it with the guns know about each other. They're also named Olympia.

Oh, named Olympia. I named my daughter's Olympia and my son's Olympio. Okay? It's easier that way. And my dog's Olympia and my cat's Olympio. It's easier that way. Well, sadly, in 1936, lucky Luciano's luck ran out when he was convicted of running a prostitution ring

and sentenced to 30 to 50 years in state prison. He attempted to rule his crime family from in prison with the help of Costello and Maya Lansky, but found it too difficult. Before this, he had been the most powerful Mafia Don in the country, possibly ever up until that point. Wow. He was even named by Time Magazine

as one of the most influential people of the 20th century. Gangster of the year. They do a cover every year. Gangster of the year. No, like the most influential people of the entire 20th century. Wow. People like Gandhi and US presidents, Muhammad Ali, all these people that are so iconic. And that's how I actually got onto this topic.

Having a bit of a goog. Right. You're talking about a pill. You're doing X. Oh, I thought he was wanking. Oh. Having a bit of a gig. I'm such a nerd.

I read history lists. But has anyone ever called Exeter'sie a Goog before? Have I made that up? I think it's going to catch on. Great. That's all I want. I like it. Anyone with a finger on the pulse, it's you, my friend.

The drug underground culture, yeah, that I'm a part of. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I've been Googling for years. Yeah, I dropped one before. I goog over day. But all good things must come to an end, even being the most powerful Don,

With Luciano's imprisonment, Genovese became acting boss of the Luciano crime family. But then in 1937, Genovese himself was indicted for a 1934 murder and decided to flee to Italy to avoid prosecution. Lucky Luciano, who's still in prison, he's lost his backup guy. He appointed Frank Costello to be his acting boss. That's a great name. You set your watch for that man.

And Costello became the full-time boss when Lucky Luciano was deported to Italy. Castello's nickname was The Prime Minister of the underworld That's wordy Yeah, it's too much I like it I mean I like it Don't get me wrong

And he held on to this role as head of the family Until in 1957 So he was top dog for over 20 years I just had this thought And I don't know if you've connected these two at all Dave But just this topic a few weeks ago The mystery of the The murder in room 1046

Or 47 No that's right There was a dawn, a mystery serious don. This happened in in 1935, I think. Yeah. So one of these dons could have been the don. Could have been the Don.

Yeah, absolutely. That was definitely a theory that it was mafia related. How interesting. Imagine if it gets solved. Which always happens when we're always. Always happens. Just waiting for the email. Yeah. Hey guys, I thought you might want to see this to get tagged and a lot of stuff on Twitter. I'm like, there it is.

Holy shit. Yeah, I love those days. Yeah, it's a good day. Do we do it again? Yeah. Do we somehow... Are we magic? It's exciting to think we're magic. So the Prime Minister of the Underworld, Costello, was in charge until 1957.

But that was the year that Vito Genovese decided to take him on and reclaim the top job that he'd been briefly given 20 years earlier before having to flee to Italy. Genevese had been biting this whole time in the wings waiting to take over. And to make his dream a reality, he turned to his young protege a certain, former boxer named Vincent Chin Giganti. Oh, the chin. Remember when the chin was growing up?

He lent him money to save his mother's life. And I don't know if it went like this, but I imagine it was, look, I'll do you a favour, but there may be... One day. There may come to you. Yeah. And he's come. And he's saying that to it like an eight-year-old.

Yeah. Hey, I'm going to come get you. I'm going to get you and I'm going to... Okay, mister. All right. Okay. I just want my mummy to be fixed. Oh, yeah.

I'm going to fix you. all right. And you might have to fix me one day. Okay. They may never come. But it may. This guy's weird. Yeah, yeah.

Can I go play with my trucks now? Yeah. I'm bored. 25 years later, though, that day came. Because on May 2nd, 1957, Frank Costello, the Prime Minister of the Underworld, the leader of the Luciano family,

went out for dinner and he's with his wife and some friends. He took a taxi home, and as it pulled up to his building, Costello made his way to the front door. and as he did so a black Cadillac slowly pulled up the curb behind it. As Costello entered his building, a shot rang out and he stumbled and landed on a leather couch in the foyer. Oh, that is handy.

That is so convenient. What great placement. He fell, the gunman ran back into the Cadillac and sped away. Hard to get blood out of leather, I assume, though. Although, I mean, leather is skin. Just wipe it down. The bullet was clearly meant to kill Costello, but it had in fact only grazed his scalp.

Oh, that is lucky. That's not a good place to graze though. I know. I wouldn't mind if like grazed your arm. Actually, I mean, obviously it's still horrendously painful. But it graze is a great result. Yeah, like a centimetre down and it's in your head. It's a bit of a mighty duck scenario where Gordon Bombay would say about his big chance when he was a kid.

He said quarter of an inch the other side, that's a goal. And then little Charlie. played by Pacey from Dawson's Creek says, yeah, but a quarter of an inch the other way, and you miss completely. And Gordon Bombay is like, huh, never thought of it like that. Wow. There's something in that.

It's a beautiful moment, isn't it? Don't you reckon? I think there's something there for everyone. I think so too. Shut up, Pacey. Shut up. What's that guy's real name? Joshua Jackson?

Oh my God. Is that Joshua Jackson? That's Joshua Jackson. I'm calling you on phone a friend. Yeah. If we ever have pop culture name. Me. Question.

Call me. Who played Van Wilder? I can't think of his name. Ryan Reynolds. Thank you. So he's been shot at. It's just crazy sculpt. He's lucky to be alive.

Costello was repeatedly questioned about his attacker, but he told them, I didn't even see an attacker. I didn't see nothing. According to all... What he actually said was... Apparently, he even claimed to have not even heard a gunshot.

Yeah, right. Ain't heard nothing. I didn't hear nothing. 66 police officers were put on the case and soon there was a breakthrough a dormant of the building identified the 29-year-old Mr. Chin Giganti as the shooter but Costello testified that he was unable to recognise his assailant

and Mr. Giganti was acquitted in 1958 on the charge of attempted murder according to reporters in the courtroom following Gigante's acquittal he was heard saying to Costello thanks Frank The guy he just tried to murder For not saying he did it I love yeah

It's like the player's code in the AFL Thanks Frank They can be knocked out But at the tribunal he said I didn't even feel it I don't think they do that anymore Now they're like He punched me right in the face

I mean you've got multiple angles on it Yeah What's the point of denying Yeah So Frank Costello The Prime Minister of the Underworld Survived the hit But he took a hint

And decided to retire as crime Clever. Leading the way for Vito, aka Don Vito, Geno Veezy. You can just retire? You don't have to die in that job? A lot of these people decide I'm a bit old for it,

and then they retire. That's great. Yeah, there's... Is there some sort of pension involved? Like prime ministers, you know? There's... I think surely, yeah, they're probably... I mean, I've learned a lot from Sopranos

and my own family history, but they... I think it does seem like if you, If you're out at the right spot, then you'll be looked after. Or if you take a hit from the cops, like you go down for the greater good, then you'll be looked after to some extent. I mean, I don't know how accurate sprangers is. When I was reading, it did seem like that, but a lot of the time,

it feels like they leave it too late. So they call it and go, they're out of, I'm too old for this. Two years later, they're dead of cancer or something. Oh, you didn't get to enjoy great retirement or anything. Yeah. But there's also a chance of, you know, they've got to trust that you're actually out. If people are still suss on you, they might be like, we're going to make sure of this. Yeah.

And I think if you try and get out at two and when you're not right up the top, when you're like a foot soldier sort of guy, I think that seems suss as well. You know too much. Yeah. Why are you going out? You can't go straight now sort of thing, maybe. Yeah. I mean, I'm talking from a real place of knowledge.

Well, Don Vito, Genevese, took over the family, and it was soon named after him, and like I said, it's still called the Genovese crime family. But again, the Chin and his new boss's luck didn't last long. A year later, Giganti was convicted along with his crime boss, Genovese, on federal charges of heroin trafficking. This time he listed his profession as the superintendent of a local building. Okay. Yeah, right. Just looking after a building.

Yeah, yeah, I'll look after this building with all these families that live there. I'm just like the, you know. Such a great title. The superintendent, I don't know what it does. But man, it sounds important. Sounds great. Anything with super in your title. Yeah, that's great.

Intendant? I don't know what it means. It's fucking sounds sick. So good. I'm a superintendent. Yeah, you are? Yeah, come at me. Do you want to be a superintendent of do you go on?

Yeah. Okay. It's yours. I'm happy for that too. You're hired. That feels good. Dave, there can only be one. Can I be the other?

Oh, no. Now Dave's going to come for me. Yeah. I'll be your under boss. You'll be the superintendent. Forget my way. Oh my God. What do I start?

I'm retired. I'm retired. I'm retiring. So he's been charged on heroin trafficking. The chin Giganti was sentenced to seven years in prison, and his boss, Genovese, got double. Proper sentence, long stretch. So, sorry on, the chin got seven.

And Genevese got about 15. Oh, I was going to do a math bit. I was going to try and figure it out. Okay, seven. The sentencing judge said he would have imposed a longer sentence for Giganti, but it was swayed by a flood of letters from residents of Greenwich Village and Little Italy attesting to his good character and his work on behalf of juveniles. So he was popular in his community. Oh, cool.

Or at least they were scared of him. Yeah. He was paroled after five years, and soon afterwards, he was promoted from soldier to the rank of capo or captain, and was put in charge of overseeing a group of mafia gangsters known as a crew in Greenwich Village. Crime boss, Vito Genovese, was still in prison but managed to hold on to power, until 1969 when he died behind bars. I didn't pay off for him. In 1969, he was indicted.

This is Giganti in New Jersey, on a charge of conspiracy to bribe all five members of the old Tappan police force in New Jersey. So the squad has five members. He tried to bribe him all. And how'd he hoped they'd alert him to surveillance operations by law enforcement agencies, but they obviously turned him in.

All right. Took the money and then turn him in. Yeah, the accusation was dropped after Mr. Chiganti's lawyers presented reports from psychiatrists that he was mentally unfit to stand trial. His lawyers presented reports from psychiatrists at his trial saying that he suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and he was declared unfit and the charges were dropped. Okay. This was the first sign of a tactic that the chin would successfully use for decades. Oh. Decades.

That bodes well for the chin. In terms of life expected. Yeah, he's going to live for a lot longer. By the start of the 80s, Philip Lombardo, aka Benny Squint, aka Cockeyed Phil, was in charge of the Genovese crime family. Love all that. Cockide Phil. You got the nicknames because he wore thick glasses, thick-rimmed glass.

Benny the Squint? Benny Squint or Cockied Phil. Love that. So this is Lombardo. In 1981, Lombardo, he was in charge, but he stepped down as boss due to poor health, naming our main man, Vincent the chin Giganti as his successor while at the same time making Anthony Fat Tony Salerno

the new front boss in order to disguise Giganti's transition into the new boss. A front boss is sort of like a public figure head that the law thinks is the boss so the real boss can do stuff secretly. See that's a fake boss. Wow. So Fat Tony, all the cops think that Fat Tony's the man man

but Giganti's really pulling the strings from behind the scene. There's been a few Fat Tonys in more recent. times. Was he the first Fat Tony? Because isn't there, there's a Simpsons character, Fat Tony? Then there was a Melbourne guy, Fat Tony. Wasn't there? Tony Mochbell was known as Fat Tony. Was he? This guy's definitely, before at least those two, but I can't tell you if he's the definitive Fat Tony.

Because it's an iconic nickname. Great name. So by having a front boss, this way the FBI would still not know who was really in charge and would continue to go after the wrong people, which they did, sentencing front boss fat Tony Salerno to 100 years in prison in the 1986 Mafia Commission trial. So they were like, oh, here's the boss,

we got him, 100 years for you. He served six and died in prison in 1992. Oh shit. So the former boxer Gigante had become the boss of one of the most powerful mob families in the world, and under his leadership, the crime family became the wealthiest, and most powerful crime

family in the nation. In the early 90s, the family was thought to be making $100 million per year. That's a good little bunt Not a bad little buntz Am I using that right? Yes The family's fortune flowed largely

From a vast network of bookmaking And loan sharking rings And from extortions of construction companies In the New York City area They also had controls of cartels That rigged bids and inflated prices In the private garbage hauling industries Got kickbacks from shipping and trucking companies

On the New Jersey in Florida waterfronts In exchange for a labour piece protection payoffs from merchants at fish markets and had control of many union jobs. They even pocketed thousands of dollars donated to a neighbourhood church. So Gigante had his finger in many pies and he wanted to insure himself against prosecution. According to the New York Times. As a new godfather, Mr Gigante quickly imposed extraordinary security measures. Genevese soldiers and associates were forbidden to utter his name or nickname in

conversations or telephone calls. When references to him had to be made, Capos or soldiers would silently points to their chins or form the letter C with their fingers. Okay. They never say the chin out loud. A bit of sign language on the go. We love it.

And so, yeah, people are, he's like becoming Voldemort. Yeah. Don't say it, don't say it. Apparently a sign at his headquarters warned, quote, don't talk. This place is bugged. I imagine he just tapped the sign. He held his commission meetings inside his mother's apartment

He comes in Someone comes in Got a delivery for you Just tapping the sign Where should I put these? Should I just put him here? Are you going to sign for him? Jeez, mister, I'm just trying to do my job

Why do you keep pointing to your chin Gun goes off. Gun rings out. As I mentioned earlier, in the late 60s, he avoided conviction by getting his lawyers to claim he was mentally unfit for trial. As another form of protection, because he's quite paranoid, Giganti stepped it up once he became a codfather.

He wanted to appear to be mentally unwell. So if he was ever arrested, he would be able to counter the charges by doctors and lawyers saying there's no way he's fit to stand trial, and also there's no way he committed the crimes you're saying. How could this man be a ruthless gang leader? So, he started shuffling around the Greenwich Village neighborhood in pyjamas, a dressing gown and slippers,

mumbling to himself to create a public character of a disturbed but harmless man. He would often be seen by locals talking to parking meters or just pissing in the street. This is the chin. This is the chin. So just shuffle around, wearing a dressing gown, slippers, wandering around, talking to things. so people would see him and go, oh, he's a harmless.

He's a harmless man. Yeah, we all know that guy. Really, committing to the bit. Is he older by this stage? He's older, but not super old. Not old. You know, like 50s. Yeah, okay.

There's a guy in Sopranos where I'm up to the moment who's doing this, but I don't think he's pretending. But he was like, he's like one of the bosses going around in his dressing gown. That's definitely based on this guy. Yeah, I've noticed a lot of things that feel like they've found it. And that guy also has, this is a different guy, but it has thick rim glass. Like Benny Squint. Yeah, exactly.

He's a real composite kind of character. So, yeah, he just wandered around in the dressing gown, creating this character. If a cop or prosecutor was near, he would slobber, waggle his head, and talk to himself. A subpoena served in the mid-80s found him in his shower, naked with an umbrella over his head. So he just came up with these, like, characters

to make himself look unwell. Wow. The New York Times broke down an average day for the chin. They write, Most days in the early evening, Mr. Gigante, a hulking man about six feet tall and weighing 200 pounds, would emerge from his mother's walk-up apartment building on Sullivan Street and Greenwich Village, sometimes dressed in a bathrobe and pyjamas, and sometimes wearing a windbreaker and shabby trousers, and always accompanied by one or two bodyguards, he would gingerly cross the street to the Triangle Civic Improvement Association,

a dingy storefront club that served as his headquarters. Inside, he would hold whispered conversations with men who agents said were his trust. bastardants. This was another thing he did. He only whispered when talking about business, said it was hard for anyone wearing a wire to record what he was saying. Right. He also avoided the phone because it was probably tapped

and never let his house be unoccupied for fear of the FBI planting bugging equipment. So he always had a family member at home. He's actually a genius. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, the detail he's going to, just to, yeah, to avoid it. It's like he's always one step ahead. That's how it feels.

Back to his daily movements. After midnight, according to FBI surveillance reports, he would be driven to a townhouse near Park Avenue on East 77th Street that was owned by Olympia Esposito, who's the second Olympia. FBI agents who in 1986 observed the townhouse from a nearby rooftop post said that soon after arriving, Mr. Giganti would change into more elegant clothes, carry on conversations with associates, and reader watch television before retiring. About nine or ten the next morning, he would reappear and be able to be able to.

his shabby downtown clothes and be driven back to Sullivan Street or a nearby apartment occupied by his relatives. So that was his routine. It's, you know, like, is it worth it? Because, I mean, all of this is for, so he can help, you know, run a business and earn a lot of money. But he's spending so much of his time being, you know, pretending to be someone else. And you start living this character. Yeah. So it's like, when's it, stop being worth it? But you're all. He also said the cops are watching him do this, so they're aware that now that he's... Yeah, they're trying to put a case together against it.

So it's not even necessarily working anymore. So he's just spending all this time. But then they've got to prove it. Right. And his dressing gown plan was really put to the test when in 1990, Giganti was indicted on federal charges that he and 14 other dependents had rigged bids to extort payoffs from contracts to install windows with a New York City Housing Authority. Apparently, installation companies were required to make union payoffs

between one and two dollars for each window they installed. So they were like, yeah, we'll let you install these windows, but you've got to give us a cut, even though they had nothing to do with the install. Right. Cut in the middleman. Yeah, so they make themselves the middleman, and that's illegal, so finally they got him on something. At his arraignment, Gigante rocked up to court wearing pyjamas.

Okay. And it's got to be said that his appearance and reputation started to pay off. He was tried separately from the others, whilst the court attempted to establish if he was mentally fit to stand trial. This part of the trial lasted seven years. Whoa. What?

So whilst the other people who probably found guilty and sent to jail, they still have to prove that he's able to go to stand on trial, and that part takes seven years. And in the meantime, he gets to live his life. Seven years. Seven years. Wow. He would appear at court, be escorted in by bodyguards

and family members who basically look like they're holding him up. There's like TV vision of this. And every time he's wearing pajamas or a dressing gown, hired teams of psychiatrists would dutifully report that Giganti suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, dementia and Alzheimer's disease, giving credit to the ruse. They also said he had a low IQ of 70

and he wouldn't be capable of the complex plots that he's been accused of. They're like, no, look at this man. There's no way he's this scary crime boss. Wow. The New York Times writes, at sanity hearings in March 1996, this is six years. is in.

Oh my God. Mr. Gravano of the Gambino family and Alfonz Diaco, who's the former acting boss of the Lechesee crime family, testified, breaking that code, that Mr. Giganti was lucid at top-level mafia meetings, and that he had told other gangsters that his eccentric behaviour was just a pretense. Wow. So is it, it's a snitch.

So the family would, like the families come together, you know, that commission. And I imagine they'd be like, I've heard that you're wandering around a dressing gown. Should we be worried? And he's like, ah, nah. I just pretend to do that. Yeah. They're like, oh, okay. But then surely part of that would be,

you don't go tell the court? Yeah. Yes. So they've broken that code. Oh, they're fucked. Really broken it. But Giganti's lawyers were prepared. His events had been 25 years in the making,

and they showed reports and testimonies from psychiatrists and psychologists that stated between 1969 and 1995, he had been confined 28 times in hospital for treatment of hallucinations. They argued he suffered from dementia rooted in organic brain damage. So he'd been going every year for 25 years, spending a little bit of time in hospital. So if the day came, he could say...

Check out my receipt. Yeah, check it out. Whoa. I've been to a lot of hospitals. And they all say, you know, that I have these conditions and I couldn't possibly be capable of it. No way. So, yeah, it's just... That's amazing.

Futureproof. His eccentric behaviour led to me. Gaganti to be given another nickname, which is the odd father. Oh, that's fine. That's a New York tabloids covering the trial because it became more and more famous over the years. I want to be clear that I think like I'm saying that's amazing. It's obviously a deeply insensitive thing to do through a modern lens. But if I'm thinking about this like a movie, it's pretty genius.

It's very, it is clever because it works. But then it is also morally, you know, questionable. But then also we're talking about the mafia. Yeah, we're also talking about... Are you telling me... Well, I think I draw the line here. I draw a moral line with the mafia. Now they've gone too far.

It's fine me to kill each other. Yeah, but don't pretend to be unwell. Giganti's family were also an integral part of the ruse with his younger brother, Louis, the only brother that didn't join the mob and instead became the Catholic priest, repeatedly attesting to his brother's various mental illnesses. The priest accused the relentless investigations of his older brother as persecutions by agents and prosecutors biased against Italian Americans.

Wow. His brother said, Vincent is a paranoid schizophrenic. He hallucinates. He's been that way since 1968. And when you've got a priest up there giving that evidence, that does give you a bit of sway. It's very compelling, yeah. Yeah.

So his brother said, he's schizophrenic, but others saw it differently. He was probably the most clever organized crime figure I have ever seen, said John S. Pritchard, the third, amazing. a former FBI supervisor who led a squad that investigated the Genovese family in the 1980s. So he was impressing people on the other side too. Whilst his trial was going on in 1993, way more serious charges were brought against Giganti. This time he was charged with being the head of the Genovese family

and sanctioning the murder of six mobsters and conspiring to kill three others, including John Gotti, the famous boss of the Gambino Crime Family. Later played by John Travolta in the film, Gotti. Ah, I'd heard of John Gotti from somewhere. Apparently, Giganti, so he was a bit of a character in the 90s, an 80s and 90s Gotti. Apparently, Giganti wanted to have Gotti killed because he had violated Mafia

protocol by arranging the assassination of the previous Gambino boss, Paul Castellano, and who had been Giganti's partner in many illegal rackers. So he's like, you knocked off, my friend, I want revenge, but also, on a personal level, Gotti was a flashy guy, often reported on in the media and Gaganti didn't like that. He was old school and preferred people to keep their mouth shut. So he was often in the tabloids. So John Gotti was seen as this

kid. What was his nickname? Hollywood Gotti or something? Yeah, a bit of a show-off. Yeah. And he was like, I don't, I never talked to the media, so. Yeah. I don't like that. So he went after Gotti, but it didn't quite go to plan. A bombing killed his underboss and badly injured a Gotti look-alike who was mistakenly targeted. I've just looked up.

Oops. that's unlucky. I know. I suppose that's why you employ a look-alike, but still awful. Just got a couple of John Gotti nicknames, if you like. The Teflon Don, the dapper Don, Johnny Boy and Crazy Horse. Oh, I think I'm like... Teflon Don, nothing sticks.

He must still... Yeah, I like that the most, I think. Sadly, in the end, it did stick for him. Giganti spent years on bail after posting a million dollars and wearing a tracking device. That was one of the things. But he was in and out of quarters. lawyer and family argued he was unfit to stand trial. But, you know, he got to carry on with his life for seven years because of this ruse.

In August 1996, however, Judge Eugene H. Nickerson, I'll be fed. Dave. You got a warn us when something like, that's coming. As it was coming out of my mouth, I was like, oh, my God. When you skim reading this, you're like, oh, yeah. But oh, my God, you say that out last. Did he get us one more time. Judge Eugene H. Nickerson.

Oh, that is good, sir. That really hits the spot. That is good. When he was pronouncing someone guilty, he'd say, you've been next. Oh, that's good. He's from the Federal District Court in Brooklyn. He ruled that Mr. Giganti was... He ruled.

That's all you need to say. He ruled, baby. You skateboarded out of court. He finally ruled that in 1996, that Giganti was mentally competent to stand trial on murder and racketeering charges. The judge found that he'd been using false medical excuses to avoid trial since at least 1991. Eventually, he was convicted of racketeering and conspiracy to commit murder on July 25th, 1997. And now 75 years old, Gigante was sentenced to 12 years in prison.

Did he break character? At this point, he's looking at a maximum of 27 years, but they gave him 12 years. Right. Which would take him to 87. When he was sentencing, Giganti, Judge Jack B. Weinstein said... Oh, Jack B. Weinstein. Jack B. Weinstein. He said, he is a shadow of his former self,

an old man finally brought to bay in his declining years after decades of vicious criminal tyranny. God bless you, he told the judge, offering a broad wave goodbye when leaving the Brooklyn courtroom. Giganti was jailed in the medical ward at the federal prison in Springfield, the same facility where the man he tried to kill John Gotti died in 2002. They all ended up in the same place. Yeah, right.

But did he continue? to say that he was... Well, he continued to run the family from behind bars until 2003. Wow. When Giganti finally admitted his long con and pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice, acknowledging that he'd run a con on the legal system between 1990 and 1997 whilst his sanity was examined.

So he admitted it finally. Wow. He'd been faking it since 1969. Why did he admit it? Oh, the sum of love. Why did he admit it? Well, his lawyer, Benjamin, Brathman commented on his admission saying,

I think you get to a point in life. I think everyone does. We've become too old, too sick, and just too tired to fight. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big sort of lie to keep going. Yeah.

And also, it took years off his sentence. As part of his admission, three years were added to his sentence instead of heaps more. Right. So it was kind of a gamble, I think, to try and get out of prison alive. But he did avoid admitting

that he was the head of the Genovese crime family. He never said it. He was the front boss. Yeah, he was like, what are he talking about? Fat Tony. Fat Tony's a guy. But sadly, Olga thinks must finally come to an end,

and Vincent the Chin Gaganti died in prison in 2005 at the age of 77. Wow. He's been described as the last great mafioso of the century, and his death closed the chapter on an era of organized crime. So he was one of the last old school guys. Wow. And whilst his plan worked, like you asked before, was it worth it?

Well, to quote from Jerry Capici, a mafia expert, an author of six books on organized crime. Capici, it's a great name. Hey, Capici. To finish my report, he said, The Looney Tunes Act served Gigante well. It kept him out of prison for 30 years. But in the end, he was the victim of his own crazy act. He never had a chance to enjoy the fruits of his plunder.

And he told some people that if given the chance, he wouldn't do it that way again. Right. Interesting. Yeah, it did have that feel. Yeah, like it's such a long act. And he had to be so committed. Like, basically the Daniel Day Lewis of Mafia crime bosses. All that, like, all that time he was spending in the,

he could just be having a shower without an umbrella, you know? Which is nice. He wouldn't know what the feeling of shower on your head. Oh, my God, nothing more soothing. Weeing in the toilet in private rather than in the street. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Enjoying a good private way.

Oh, though, having said that, wearing slippers and a dressing down wherever you go, that's living. That's all right. That's nice. These coming from you, you won't even wear trackies on a long haul flight. Yeah, exactly because I don't want to be Vincent Giganti. Matt and I are okay with being Vincent Giganti. I think there's a middle ground here, Dave. I think it's just comfort.

You don't wear track suits on a plane and become a crime boss. Yeah, that's not how it works. Well, you've just got to have some self-respect. which is very important in the mafia, I believe. Yeah. Respect. Yeah, a little respect. I just came across that story and I was just like, that is so wild.

Such a long, long con. I just had to write about it. Yeah. Fantastic work, Dave. Yeah, it's really fascinating. Because I knew the five families, but I didn't know all of that. I really didn't know any of that. I didn't know any of that back story.

And the fact that luckily, Lichana was so famous and powerful that even people that I've heard heard more about like Al Capone he wasn't the guy Lucky Lichiano currently modernised the mafia to the point that the time were like

yeah he's one of the most hundred important people at the last century amazing to my mind oh great work Dave and yeah that was a one you found yourself

I think next week your next report will be back on the vote yes I'm going to be voted for so we haven't so the people that support us on Patreon and get to vote for two out of three topics, which we did a big vote for Block instead for a while,

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Bing! I always remembers the ding. And on this one you get to give us a factor quote or a question or braggle suggestion. And you also get to give yourself a title or a nickname. First up this week we've got Jamie Lidlow, who's given herself the title of Female, All-Caps, Ozzie Farmer with Endless Fruit Facts. I think I might have maybe thought last time Jamie was a man. So I, but she, we have talked over the, uh, the patron chat.

So I, I think that's very fun stuff. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Female. She, well, she wasn't offended or hurt. Okay. It's all fine. I'd be hurt if somebody thought I was a, bleh, man. Oh.

I'm sorry, you're just all trash. So Jamie has, I think I also called her jammy last time. Oh, yeah. Um, so she's helped me out. with the pronunciation of her name as well. Thank you so much, Jamie. And Jamie's offered us a fact, which is, this infuriated me when I learned this,

but if you go to the shop and pick out five pink lady apples, it is likely that you'll get multiple different varieties of apple in there. What? Pink lady is not a variety of apple, but only a trademark name that everyone will know. I didn't know that. I didn't know that either. I always get pink ladies.

I think a pink lady has been one of my favorite apples. Me too. Oh my gosh. They're all different. What? But they all look the same. I can get it. How are they different?

What's going on? Jamie, that's crazy. Jamie, more info required. Oh my God, Jamie, you've blown my mind. I think I'm also infuriated. I'm infuriated. I love pink ladies. Dave looks indifferent.

I don't love apples, but I'm looking up because it's still blown my mind. Wow. That's my go-to apple. Yeah, that's my go-to apple as well. Love a pink lady. Love a granite smith, but for, You're stewing. You thought you loved a pink lace.

Yeah, I don't know what I feel anymore. Fuji, if you get the honey core, fantastic. I remember that. When I was a kid, there was an infomercial for Fuji apples. And they cut one open and they said, if you're lucky, you'll get one of these with a honey core. And I'm like, what is going on? What does that mean? What is it?

What's a honey core? What is this? The future of apples? Is it honey? It's just like, you could sort of see it was like sort of yellowy brown in the middle. and it was particularly sweet at the core. I didn't understand it. Wow.

Have I made that up? Maybe. Maybe Jamie, you can help us understand. Jamie, help us. Is there such a thing as a honey core? Wow. I reckon it was on just after a natural glow. Natural glow.

Intimmercial. I can put as much in there if you want a darker shade. Put on more natural glow. And Mick Jagger hosting it. Not funny. Not funny. All right. Thank you, Jamie.

Next one comes from Roy Phillips. who's also offering a fact, but Roy writes, his title, The Great Grower of Green Greek Grapes. I think so much Roy. What's a fruit happening today? That was a similar sort of tongue twister as when Dave said before. I can't remember, but there was three F words in a row, and I'm like, bloody old Dave.

Fuck, fuck, fuck. That tickled me right in the earhole. Anyway, Roy's fact is, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, kale, broccoli, Colerabi and cauliflower are all variations of the same plant. What? Is col rabbi? I've never heard of that. Is that, do I say that right?

I think that might be, um, no, I don't know. It's spelled K-O-H-L-R-A-B-I. So they're all variations of the same plant, Brassica, Oleracia. If you prioritize large leaves, you get kale. Flower buds, you get cauliflower, vertical leaf buds. That's Brussels sprouts. Wow. That's interesting.

These fruit and vegetable facts are blowing my mind. Yeah. Amazing to get two back to back. One fruit, one veg. Love that. Hey, we're almost got our daily intake sorted. Oh, thanks so much, Roy. Next one comes from Dominic Stevenson.

I hope it's about bananas. Oh, gosh. That would be so good. Dominic's title is Librarian. Shh! In brackets. Oh, I laugh too loud at that. Dominic is offering a quote.

Dominic. Quotes thusly. Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist, the parachute. That's fun. That's from W.H.H. McKeller.

Oh, I like that. Need a bit of both, don't you? You know? Optimism, pessimism. You need a both. You got to have them both. You know what I mean? Isn't that beautiful? The Yin, Yang, got them all. So beautiful. Thank you.

And finally this week, from the fact quote of question, is from Ben Oliver, who's got the title of Subterranean Titanium Alien. That felt so nice to say. And Ben is asking a question. So we've got a fact to quote. No, we've got a, yeah, we've got a fact, two facts of quote in a question this week. The question is, what is your least favorite trend of the last decade? Was it planking, flossing, Harlem shake, bottle flipping, or any of the others?

Or did you love them all? I was a teacher during most of these years, and I disliked them, strongly disliked them. Yeah, I can understand why. Leith's favorite trends. I'm... I feel like I've got no problems with any of these. Yeah, because I'm very much on the periphery.

Yeah. Like I'm seeing people doing it, and I might think, that's dumb. But then I get on with my life. If you're a teacher and the youths are doing it nonstop, I can understand that would be very annoying. Yeah, I can understand. I'm actually looking at a list of 2010 fads to try and help.

One is called the Cinnamon Challenge. Oh, is that one? I tried to eat cinnamon. Yeah, but again, like, I might see somebody do that on YouTube at the time or, like, on TikTok now. And if it's something I'm not interested in, I can just scroll past it. I don't really get into, too old for trends. What about fashion trends? Fashion trends.

Flares are back. Are they really? Flares are back. Oh, I've always hated flares. Flares are awful. So awful. There you go. There's my one.

There you go. Yeah, I feel like I can't get angry about pants. Just wear whatever fucking pants you want to wear. Sorry, I was just trying to try. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Trying to. That's what I'm trying. But they really do come back in cycles.

I remember as things started to get fashionable when I was a teenager. My mum was like, yeah, that's what I was wearing when I was in my 20s. And I'd be like, whatever, mum, it's cool. You don't get it, dad. I like lead Zeppelin. You probably never even know. You don't even know who the Beatles are. But now I'm seeing, like, young people, they're wearing the butterfly clips again.

And I'm like, oh, God, it just throws me back to. being seven. Yeah, right. But again, I don't care. Like, do whatever you want to do. Sorry, I've discovered the one I hate. Yeah, what's that? Extreme contouring.

Oh, yeah. Okay. So it's just, I don't know. It's just this list of things. And I'm like, I don't even know what that is, but it sounds like something I dislike it. It's just a picture of Kim Kardashian doing our makeup. Yeah, that's that right.

I don't dislike that at all for the record. Oh, you love it. I love it so much. Would you be able to spot them all? Like, I think the only one I'm not sure exactly what it is is Harlem Shake. That was a dance move. Right. That does sound.

Same with flossing. Yeah, flossing I can picture, planking. I had a crack at flossing. Nailed it first time. Some people really struggled to figure it out. I was just standing at work one night. Just did it. I was like, look at that.

I'm flossing. Good for you. I know. I'm in touch with them. You are in touch. I'm in touch. I just stay in touch. I should not have said I'm too old for it.

Because that does sort of sound like I'm too old for my job. So I love all of these trends and I own eight fidget spinners if they're still cool. Oh, they're still cool. They're still cool. They've got them. Yo-yo's. Yeah, they in? They always cycle back around, yo-yo's.

You guys got marbles? Oh, I love them. Little knuckleheads. I'm now on a list of popular fads from the year you were born, 1990. Beverly Hills, 90210. That was a fad, was it? That was big, yeah. Not in my heart.

da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-ha-w. And I'm looking at a year, Matt was born. What was being your year? Swatchers. Oh, it felt like a long way to swast stickers. I'm like, what year have you put in? Swatches. Swatches, swatch-watch.

Yeah, they came back around when I was in high school. Lots of people had a swatch-watch. Yeah, I never had a swatch. No, I wanted a swatch. One of my friends had a swatch-watch that was like all sorts of, kind of like, rainbow colors, but not... Anyway, it was just sick, and it was clear, but then had like, colorful stripes on it. I was like, I want

a fucking swatch watch. I can't believe the 1600s had swatch watches. I thought they were much more modern than that. Do you know it was very cool when I was very young, like probably five was Baby G watches. They were these big, thick, you remember those? Really big, thick, chunky digital watches, and I remember Christmas shopping when I was about 17. I was Christmas shopping with my brother. We're walking

through a department store and I was like, oh my God, baby G watches. I wanted one of those when I was five. Were they like a spin-off from G-Force or something? No idea. They came in like pink and blue and anyway. Baby G for the girls. What were the boys wearing?

Yeah, the boys were wearing man watches. Anyway, my brother got me one for that Christmas as a 17-year-old. He got me a baby G watch that I'd wanted when I was five. They're pretty fun looking watches. It's pretty fun. There's a website still, babyg.com.com. There you go. Get yourself a baby G. Anyway, don't know if that really answers your question.

It seems like the trends don't really seem to phase us very much, because we're not very cool. That means we're not, we don't know what it is. No, God, no. And I've never claimed to. Not once. Yeah, there's G-Force watches. Yeah. Or G-shock, sorry. Black and big watch, man. Man-time. It'll tell you the man time. I love how if it's a big black watch, it's like, oh, fragile men, they need a tough watch. But if it's a pink watch, it's like, oh, patronising to us women. You know what I mean?

It's like, wait, men are the villains both times? And that's the society we live in now. Thank you. Now men are actually second-cloth citizens. Arrest my case, your honour. Get out of it. Anyway, I just want everyone to come to my MRA meeting. We hold them online.

every Saturday night. It's only just me. Just waiting for other people to join. So the other thing we like to do is thank a few of our great supporters who support us on the shoutout level or above, which I believe is the ass prod level. Jesse normally come up with a bit of a game based on the topic at hand. Yeah, I'm thinking, oh shit, I don't know.

I was thinking of where their mob family is located. but other than where they are from. Yeah, that makes sense. Could give him a nickname. A nickname is much better, yes. Let's do that. Like a mobby nickname. Tony, we had...

I do just want to say, though, Dave, you really swung in there and took my thing. So... Sorry. But it is much better. I'm torn here. I don't know what to do. I guess we'll go for it.

I'm not happy about it. And there's going to be a horse head in your bed tonight. Oh, no. I would also like to say on the record that... You want to have... You want a horse head? Much respect for what the five families have done for New York City and America in general. Yeah, I love them.

Can I start? Do you want to go? No, I mean, I go first every time, but I'd love for you to go first this time. Take that pressure off my neck. Well, I also did the intro of this episode, so six years in, I'm finally taken over. Six years in, having that seven-year itch. Okay, firstly, from Albuquerque, New Mexico. I mean, that's got to be one of the great names.

It's incredible. Should have turned left at Albuquerque's. That's a Bugs Bunnyism, isn't it? I would love to thank Kayla Marvin. Oh, Kayla. The Martian. The Martian Marvin. From Albuquerque.

That just makes sense to me. The Martian from Albuquerque is pretty good. Yeah. Kayla, the Martian. Because she's out of this world. Is that something? Yeah, that's great. I'm hot.

and I'm tired and I'm losing my mind a little bit. I think that's fantastic. Okay. Thank you, Kayla, the Martian. I would also love to thank from Kensington in Victoria, Holly Griffiths. Holy Griffiths. Oh, that's good. That's great. Holly the gorilla Griffiths.

Yeah, because Holly takes no shit. Yeah. Have you fuck with her? She's going to fuck you right back. Oh, gorilla. She'll beat her chest and beat you. Yes. And you will not

Farewell I don't think that sounds No you haven't seen enough gorillas I've watched on the podcast Primates a lot of it is just watching gorillas That's nice Sound like a purve Thank you Holly

I would also have to thank from Meridian In I want to say Idaho Oh spud club country Is it ID Idaho Surely right Yeah there's Indiana Idaho, Iowa.

Are they the three eyes? Meridian ID. I reckon it's got to be Idaho. Please, Jess. I'd put money on it. If we're on who wants to be a millionaire, I'd lock that in Eddie. Would you?

Well, you'd be... You'd just won a million dollars. Yes! Well, from Meridian, Idaho, I would love to thank Travis Berger. Oh, the Grave Digger. Oh!

That is great. Travis the Grave Digger Burger. Love that. That is, I mean, is that his job? He's like, he's just... literally digs the graves. I was sure you're going to go with Wopper, which is,

but Grave Digger is way more bad. Imagine your nickname being Wopper. Why Wopper? Wopper's a bumbling fool, but the gravedigger is like a fucking quiet, badass. Yeah, yeah. He can't say nothing.

Would it be okay, Dave, if I go next? I'd love it. Well, firstly, I'd love to thank from Glasgow in Scotland, Great Britain, Lewis. Louis. I love him, a bit of mysterious.

The Glasgow Kiss. I mean, that's... The Glasgow Smoocher. Oh, just the smoocher. The smoocher. Oops, smooch is here. Louis the Smooch. Louis the Smooch.

Oh my God. I think we got it. Matt, I have to give you one of these. That's fucking great. That's fucking great. We did it. Yes! Comes in, gives you a Glasgow smooch.

Good night. Yeah, no night. You're dead. Oh, this next one is fantastic. And it feels like already really giving themselves a nictmats. from Berkhamstead in Great Britain. It's crumbly biscuit. Crumbly biscuit.

The bickie. The bickie. What about the bickie? Crumbly, the bickie biscuit. Yeah, funnily enough, named after pens. Yeah. That's just a coincidence. Oh, you call Biscuits bickies.

Oh, okay. That's cute that, isn't it? What a world. Crumbly biscuit. That's so good. Thank you very much, Crumbly biscuit. And finally, from me, I'd love to thank from Amsterdam in the Netherlands, Jessica Clarsen.

Oh, Jessica Clerson. Jessica Clerson. Jessica. The teacher. Yeah. Teacher. That's good. Jessica, the teacher. The teach.

There's something about that. The teacher. The professor? Yeah. Jessica, the professor class. Yeah, I think professor's pretty good. She'll school you. Yeah.

In hell! Dan How! That's they said. She goes around, wherever she goes, someone, like, slash or someone's following around. So everything she says, there's a little lick on the guitar. I'm just. That's good.

I would love to thank from Sebastopol here in Victoria, Narelle O'Connor. Oh, the knockers. That would have been a nickname, knock, N-O-C. What about, like, Sebastian Polls, like, on the fringe of Ballarat? What about something like gold digger? Oh, the gold, yeah. Or the nugget?

The Nugget. Norell. Norell the Nugget O'Connor. That's great. Don't fuck with the Nug. Oh my God, the Nuggets here. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Clean up, clean up, clean up.

Clean up the house. Yeah. They don't like Mazz. The Noggett's going to fuck you up. Don't call the Nogget. Norel O'Connor. Fantastic name. Great name.

Thank you, Norell. Thanks, Nugget. And I would love to thank from Auckland over New Zealand. Evan Lansdown. Heaven lands down. The cloud. Oh, Evan, the cloud lands down. Yeah.

You know? Because he'll appear above you and piss on you. Yeah. Rain down fury. Yeah, that's right. I'll make it rain pain. Yeah. That's good.

Yeah, that's good. The cloud. You guys were going to metaphorically, like, he'll rain pain and go, I'm saying he's going to piss on people. He's going to literally float above. He can fly. At first you'll be like, oh, is it raining? No.

you're getting pissed on. Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. That's where the saying comes from. It comes from Evan Lansdown. Slightly it morphed in it. Don't piss on my leg until me it's raining. But it did start out as on my head. That's funny.

And finally, I would like to thank from Poughkeepsie in New York. I wonder if he's anywhere near the Five Crime Families. William Yago. Oh, Yago. The parrot. Oh. William. Is that the Lion King parrot, Yago?

No, Aladdin. Aladdin. Geez, I've used that parrot enough, haven't they? Yes. Different kind of bird, probably. William, the parrot. The parrot, Yago. Oh, that's good.

What if it's Jago? It could be Jago. Still, the parrot's great. If I may compliment my own suggestion. That's definitely the hero here. The parrot. But it's an ironic nickname. because he doesn't squawk.

Yeah, exactly. I ain't squawking. I ain't squawking. I ain't saying nothing. Cheers, William, Evan Norell, Jessica, Crumbly, Lewis, Travis, Holly and Kayla. And the last thing we like to do is shout out to a few people who've been on the shoutout level or above for three straight years. They've been welcomed into the Triptitch Club. This is a club that is exclusive to people who have done the thing I just said.

And once you're in, you're in for life. It's lifetime membership. Jess, normally when people are welcomed in, you've got some sort of a cocktail. Do you have some sort of five families cocktail this week? I do, but it's a secret. Oh, you won't tell. I won't tell. I love that.

I've got five different cocktails each representing the family. One of them is poisonous. Oh, shit. So, there you go. Well, I don't, I know, yeah, it's sort of like a Russian roulette. Yeah. Cocktail service. You choose wisely.

Dave, you normally book a band. as well. You never going to believe this. Oh my God. What's happened? I've booked this months in advance. I have accidentally booked on this date, La Mafia, the five-time Grammy Award-winning musical group playing Latin music based in Houston, Texas.

Wow. Wow. That is vaguely relevant based on the name mainly. Yeah. But Houston, that feels to me like a cover. Yeah. Am I right, Dave? That's where they fled.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're playing Latin music in Hollywood. in Houston. Yeah. We know what you're playing. Great to have. You're playing Dean Martin covers in the heart of New York City.

We're on to you. All right. So Dave, that's a great booking. Well done. Thank you. I'm getting nothing but hits lately. You've been nailing it. I mean, you're the only one who's been in a successful band here,

so it makes sense. You're using your connections. You're using them wisely. Thank you. Now, I'm standing at the door. I've got the clipboard. I got the list of names. I think we've got about eight coming in tonight.

Big night for the club. Dave's, he's on the mic and side. He's emceeing this party. Everyone else is already in and standing around, ready to cheer you on as we bring you into the club. It takes a lot out of Dave to be the hype man. So Jess is also giving Dave a little hype of his own. Okay, so you're ready.

Dave. Here we go. Okay, I kind of zoned out for a second hour. You're getting in the zone. That's what you're going. Yeah, so I was zoning in. Yeah, let's do it. Not zoning out.

Woo! All right. From all. In Brooklyn, in New Zealand, it's Meredith Van Bikhusen. Oh, Van Bikhusen. More like... Van Seeking a good time. Huisen.

Team after there. Thank you so much. You got my back. You looked like a deer in headlights. Adelaide in South Australia, it's Christina Nitchie. You make me feel richie. Yes, rich in friendship. From Glasgow in Scotland, it's Nile Dixon. Oh, I was in denial about having a good time.

But you know what? We're going to have a good time. Charles here. Lester in Great Britain. It's Liam Cuin. Who takes our fantastic photos. We love you, Liam. From Lester, more like from the Bester place. From Box Hill North in Victoria Australia. It's Rubio Day. Oh, Ruby O Make My Day.

Rubyo, hi. From Toronto in Ontario, Canada. It's Eva. What's My Body doing? What's My Body doing? Having a great time. Yay. Eva, welcome aboard. From Round Rock in Texas in the United States, it's David Aranda. Ooh. Get Aranda. David Aranda.

I was going to say something about Varanda, but anyway, that's way better. And finally, from York in, this is old York, in Great Britain, it's Liam Duncan. Oh, Duncan on the hoop. Slav Duncan. I'd love to have a beer with Duncan. Duncan, there's so many there for you, mate. Welcome into the club, Liam, David Eva, Ruby, Liam. Nile, Christina and Meredith

Hope you have a fantastic time. Thanks so much for your support for the last three years. Now, Jess, is there anything else we need to say before we boot this baby home? Jess, if you want to get in touch with us, you can do so at do go on pod at gmail.com. Do go on pod on all of the socials. We will be back next week with another stellar report.

Honestly, it's going to blow your socks off. Wow. Oh, shit, it's probably me. It might not blow your socks off, but I'll try. Boot it home, Dave. Thank you so much for listening. But until next week, I'll say thank you. And goodbye.

Bye. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. Wherever we go, we always hear six months later, oh, you should come to Manchester. We were just in Manchester. But this way you'll never miss out. And don't forget to sign up, go to our Instagram,

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