Two In The Think Tank - 330 - Fordlandia: Henry Ford's Failed Utopia (with Cass Paige)

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

In the 1920s Henry Ford was one of the richest and most famous people in the world when he decided to set up the "perfect" city in the middle of the Amazon in Brazil. What could go wrong? Everything....Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: dogoonpod.com or patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSubmit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/Submit-a-TopicSee us live: https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2022/shows/the-quiz-showSee Matt live: https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2022/shows/honk-honk-hubba-hubba-ring-a-ding-dingTwitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasREFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/aug/19/lost-cities-10-fordlandia-failure-henry-ford-amazonhttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/world/americas/deep-in-brazils-amazon-exploring-the-ruins-of-fords-fantasyland.html?auth=login-email&login=emailhttps://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/books/review/Macintyre-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0https://www.damninteresting.com/the-ruins-of-fordlandia/https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105068620https://www.amazon.com/Fordlandia-Henry-Fords-Forgotten-Jungle/dp/0312429622https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Companyhttps://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/https://www.britannica.com/science/rubber-chemical-compoundhttps://www.al.com/living/2013/01/post_89.htmlhttps://connecticuthistory.org/charles-goodyear-and-the-vulcanization-of-rubber/#:~:text=Even%20Goodyear's%20success%20was%20short,in%201860%2C%20%24200%2C000%20in%20debt. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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write the future. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnocki and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart. Hey Dave, sorry, I forgot where we were for a second there. I forgot that I wasn't just sitting and watching and enjoying. Joining us this week is our friend Cass Page. Woo! Woo!

Cass, how are you? I'm good. I'm ready to double my joy. That's right. I mean, we had you on the show last week. We spoke about a horrific car accident. Can we bring the joy again this week? Yeah, well, Cass, welcome back on the show.

You are playing for the Jack Potter prize, which is double knowledge. And yeah, well. I'm feeling pretty confident, I've got to say. Looking forward to seeing how you go. Before we get on to the game show, aka my report this week, Dave, you were going to tell our dear listeners about. About like an actual game show. Yeah.

Or quiz show that we are doing at the Melbourne Comedy Festival coming up in April, April 2nd, 9 and 16. That's three Monday nights if you look them up and you look at your calendar thinking what can I do on those nights at 9 o'clock I'm in Melbourne. Maybe I'll go to the Town Hall, you're thinking. I'll see Do Go On, but not the live podcast. You'll see Do Go On, the

quiz show. Very much like the podcast where we take a topic from history, but I, the host, will quiz Matt and Jess and two guests each week on a topic from history. And by the end of it, we'll have learnt the same amount. We'll have laughed the same amount, but there's also points assigned for some reason. Yes.

I think it's good. I'm like, I enjoy being on the Do Go On podcast, but I'm a bit annoyed that I can't win it. That's right. You want to win Do Go On? Now you can. It's good for those times you're sitting with your friends. You're like, I'm having a good time, but I need someone to lose.

Yes. Yep. Yeah. Greg, he's been great company, but I want to beat him. I want to be better company. I need a scoring system here. And if you are looking for shows to go to at the Comedy Festival, why not come to see me and Alistair Trombe-Birchall.

You might know him from previous episodes where he told us all about the history of the clit and the peen. Has he done any other episodes? I think they're the two. They're the two. They're the two. But we're doing a stand-up show together, and it's going to be a lot of fun.

It's called Honk Honk, Hubba Hubba, Ring-a-Ding-Ding. And it's on, I can't remember where, but all the details are via the link. And it's on nightly for the second half of the festival. Monday nights I obviously can't be in the show because I'm going to be in the Do Go On one. Do you want to win? Yeah, I want to win. Angus Gordon's taking my place those nights.

But, yeah, come see both those shows. That would be so cool. I think that would make you really cool actually. I think it would. If you're listening to this and you've got some nights spare or if you don't, cancel. Make them spare. Yeah.

They're not spare anymore. You've got plans. That's right. And then all of a sudden you're winning the game I like to call life. For new listeners, how would you explain this show, this podcast show we call Do Go On? What we do here, Matt, is we take it in terms to report on a topic often suggested to us by one of the listeners.

Go away, do a bit of research, write down some facts, bring it back to the other people in the form of a report. It is your turn, Matt, to report on a topic. And because Cass and I have no idea what you're going to talk about, we always start with a question. That's right. This question is slightly tangential.

Oh, no, it's not. You know, it's directly related to the topic. The question is, I couldn't believe it last week when your topic was about car racing. Because my question is, which make of car did Dick Johnson drive in his three Bathurst wins? Oh. Ford. Correct. Ford.

Correct. Well done, Dave. Wait, Cass, did you have a guess? I was going to guess a four-wheel drive instead of a two-wheel. Look, I think it was a two-wheel drive, but I like. I couldn't. I like. I'd have to go because I think they might have even been three different kinds of Ford.

One of them was, I think, maybe an EL Falcon. But one of the earlier, anyway, it doesn't matter. This is really. Is your report on Dick Johnson? No, it's not. Is it on Bathurst? I just love squeezing Dick Johnson in wherever I can. It's just one of the great names.

No, this week's topic is, it's about Ford, but more specifically the attempt in a utopianopian city Ford founder Henry Ford set up. What? Fordlandia. Oh, it's not called Bathurst, all right. Fordlandia. Fordlandia, yes. Gasoline flows free and the wheel rotations are complimentary.

That's the chocolate factory. Only, yeah, just with, you know, there's rooms where you can eat, you know, oil. There's a petrol fountain. A buffing room. You go through a little human car wash to get a shower. There's no covers, there's boots. It's honestly, what a wonderland.

This topic was suggested by Tegan Longman from the Gold Coast, Ben Monsma from Seattle, and Alex Buxall from St. Charles, Missouri. Okay, let us begin. Henry Ford is best known for being the founding father of the Ford Motor Company. The Ford Model T revolutionized both transportation and the manufacturing industry. By the 1920s, Ford was one of the richest and best known people in the world. For The Guardian, Drew Reed writes, it is difficult to overstate the reputation Henry Ford

had built for himself by that time, whether in Brazil, America or anywhere else on the planet. Let's just name a couple of countries. I mean, Brazil is relevant to the topic. It seems like he's just pulled that out of his ass, but that does make sense later. In his day, Ford's name was every bit as evocative of the glimmering promise of technological revolution

as Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg, perhaps even more so. Two of the most respected people. The Zook. Jobsy and the Zook. Within a decade of its founding in Dearborn, Michigan in 1903, the Ford Motor Company had revolutionized car production by introducing the assembly line, isolating tasks within the complex process of car assembly,

allowing new models of his flagship vehicle, the Model T, to be cranked out faster than ever before, making the company a global success. Yet Ford's greatest innovation was arguably not mechanical but social. He took pride in the fair treatment of his staff. In 1914, to great fanfare, he proclaimed that all Ford workers would receive a daily salary of $5, which is the equivalent of 120 American dollars today or 90 pounds.

Is that like as a minimum or if you're like an upper management and you're getting paid $10 a day, you're like, actually, you're all getting $5. The poorer workers are like, yay! And the other people are like, I've just lost half my wage. I think it wasn't screwing anyone over. You're all getting $5 a day.

What about the assistant CEO? No. How much is that an hour? Because I assume this is after the Industrial Revolution. Yes, it's the eight hour workday. So, yeah, it's less than a dollar an hour? Because I assume this is after the Industrial Revolution, right? Yes, it's the eight hour work day. So, yeah, it's less than a dollar an hour. What about equivalent?

Dave's the maths guy on the show. 120 divided by 7 and a half. Yeah. Because no one pays for lunch breaks. What's minimum wage in America now? I'm not sure. I know it's not $15. I think Joe Biden made this just recently. Is it government workers the minimum is now $15?

Yeah, right, there you go. Well, that suits him very well, doesn't it? Whatever the, at the time, this was seen as being like quite generous. It is. I've just checked. It's $16 USD an hour equivalent. Right. So, I mean, and at the time it was like quite generous. It is. I've just checked. It's 16 USD an hour equivalent. Right. So, I mean, and at the

time it was like quite generous. So that's one interesting thing about Ford I didn't realize. Something that I was reading about him, there's a lot of, he had sort of a lot of weird inconsistencies. I'll talk a little bit about some of his real downsides briefly. But he had this thing where he thought, you know, he wanted everyone to live better lives supposedly and he thought he could do so, do that with business. But he accidentally, while he was thinking he was giving everyone the chance to make a bit more money and live better lives, he was creating this system that made human sort of cogs in a machine

and in the end it sort of did a lot of the opposite of what he was trying to do, supposedly. Anyway, that's not really what we're talking about necessarily here. You there, cog, back in the machine. Yeah, we're not talking about the hellscape he created. We're talking about the utopia he didn't create. Yes, that's right. In both forms.

Still with Reid here, he says, Ford believed that fair treatment would make his workers more responsible citizens and in the process solidify a client base for manufacturers. The Reverend Samuel Marcus, one of the heads of Ford's Employee Relations Office, once proclaimed that Ford's cars were the byproducts of his real business, which is the making of men.

were the byproducts of his real business, which is the making of men. Oh, that's foreboding, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. This man's representing the workers? To this point, Reid has painted a pretty rosy picture of old Henry, you could say, but he continues. But some of Ford's social ideas were highly sinister, most notoriously his anti-Semitism,

which featured prominently in a newspaper he himself printed, The Dearborn Independent. I heard vaguely about this. I thought it might have been like a thing where people who knew him privately later said that he was a bit anti-Semitic. He was very public about it. Anyway, this is from a PBS article about it. It says,

In 1918, Henry Ford purchased his hometown newspaper, the Dearborn Independent. A year and a half later, he began publishing a series of articles that claimed a vast Jewish conspiracy was infecting America. The series ran in the following 91 issues. Ford bound the articles into four volumes titled The International Jew and distributed half a million copies to his vast network of dealerships and subscribers.

One of the most famous men in America, Henry Ford legitimized ideas that otherwise may have been given little authority. Oh my God. Yeah, isn't that hectic, isn't it? That's atrocious. Yeah. I did not know that about that. No, neither did I.

Super grim. Super grim. And it was the kind of thing that I read and I'm like, it's not directly involved in this utopia he's trying to set up, but I felt like it's the kind of thing once you're ready, you've probably got all these people listening going, is he going to mention that whole anti-Semitism thing? Yeah, well, now we have an idea of what he would consider a utopia. Yeah.

Sounding worse and worse by the moment. Yeah, anyway, we're not here to talk about that necessarily. We're here to talk about one of his other failings, Fordlandia. According to Reid, Ford became increasingly convinced that his role in advancing society, yeah, it doesn't seem like the way people write about him isn't like, let's make a society without Jewish people. It's more like, let's empower workers and stuff,

which is like, it's so weird that you're like going, I'm really egalitarian or whatever. Yeah. But not this group of people. I'm going to pull all of us, not you, all of us up. Yeah. Billionaire types are always like, I need to do this. I need to change the world.

It's my job. It's my job. Yeah. Shut up. It did seem like that people do when they get a lot of wealth, they feel like they need to do that. Yeah, that's right. Rockets.

We all need rockets. I'll fix it. I'll fix it. And it's just, yeah, I guess when you're really rich, do you fall into smaller bubbles and echo chambers and you can believe these weird conspiracy theories? If you are that successful, so many different doors need to open up for you

and you need to be so lucky, you have to have so much privilege, that I don't know how you wouldn't in some part of your mind be like, well, the rules don't apply to me. Because you hear about all these things that happen to everyday people and all the setbacks that they face and you face none and every single opportunity you've had has been good. Even if you do have what look to be setbacks, they're not the same setbacks as a normal person would have. So even your mind, you're like, oh, I have the same setbacks as anyone else and it's easy. And you managed to bounce back. So you are like, I am therefore more powerful and more resilient than other people because all these setbacks that they have really did set the back foot for me different. You would not perceive the world as treating you the same for other people

because you would either believe like, I'm the chosen one because how would you not or you're like well I'm built different I've earned everything I did or and the other thing you might start to believe is everything I do is right I've got I've got this figured out every little thing I do is right and I want to share this with a group of people and make a utopia yeah and if you start seeing things like you're making cars that start changing the world and you are giving people living wages that are changing the world, you're like, hey, everything I do has an effect, which means I've got to keep doing stuff. But I don't know where the anti-Semitism fits into all that.

No one does. It never fits in anywhere well, does it? No, it's just like, oh, yeah. Always a blight on any history. Did you ever see that interview with Jeff Bezos where they were like, he was talking about why he got into space travel? And it was pretty much, no, someone asked him what he does with all of his money and he's like, well, the only thing I can do really at this point, the only thing i can invest in is space it was like in his mind money is this thing that you it's an investment

you keep building and building and building and he's gotten to the top where he he can't do all of the normal investment things anymore so he's like well i did the only thing i could do and everyone's like that is not the only thing you could do with money like why you're only seeing it as a way to make more money so he's like like, well, I'll invest in space. That's all I've got left. Yeah, that's an insight. I throw it into this big money pit. I set fire to it. There's nothing else

I can do with it. It's the only thing I could do. I've got too much. It wouldn't fit anymore. There's nothing else to invest in, so what else am I able to do with it? Well, at least that wasn't an anti-Semitic interview, which is what I thought you were going to do. Oh, no. Back to Ford. He says,

Ford became increasingly convinced that his role in advancing society had to go beyond the factory floor and encompass entire cities. While he succeeded in bringing some of his smaller urban planning concepts to life, his much larger project, a massive manufacturing city to be built in northern Alabama, 75 miles long, was power supplied by damming the Tennessee River and it never even got off the ground. He had these huge plans.

There were investors in the town. They were already like setting up little villages around the town because Henry Ford was about to come to town and make this a big boom city, but it just never even started. Kind of like the Mars colony? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, Ford's like, well, what else could I invest in?

Alabama. The final frontier. So there was a lot of excitement from locals there, but the project at Muscle Shoals, Alabama, never got off the ground. Soon after, he moved his attention to Brazil, of course, which is a place where he wanted to start sourcing rubber. During the 1920s, sourcing rubber was becoming increasingly expensive

for Ford, which in turn was driving up the costs of producing his Model A cars as rubber was needed for tyres, valves, hoses and gaskets, et cetera. A bunch of different things in a car needed rubber. He was up to the Model A, which I think was the one that maybe took over from the Model T. It makes no sense. Yeah. Give the man an alphabet.

That's really funny. Give the man an alphabet. That's what I thought too. He's got so many yes-men. He's like, what comes after T-A? Yes, Mr. Ford. To combat this, Ford wanted to create and control his own source of rubber. Where does natural rubber come from, you ask?

I mean, I didn't know, do either of you? Rubber tree. Yes, okay, you both knew. I'll read this for listeners who didn't know. I knew the trees, didn't know Brazil. You did mention Brazil at the start of the episode and say, hey, this will be important later. Well, let me read a little from Britannica.

Encyclopedia? Know it. Whoa! Formed in a living organism, natural rubber consists of solids suspended in a milky fluid called latex that circulates in the inner portions of the bark of many tropical and subtropical trees and shrubs,

but predominantly Hevia brasiliensis, a tall softwood tree originating in Brazil. Natural rubber was first scientifically described by Charles-Marie de la Condamine and François Fresnau of France following an expedition to South America in 1735. The English chemist Joseph Priestley gave it the name rubber in 1770 when he found it could be used to rub out pencil marks. That's where rubber gets its name.

No way. That is so good. Yeah, I think that's just fantastic. Yeah, it seems sort of obvious, I guess, now, but the end of the pencil wasn't what gave it its name, but that's so funny. Yeah, I would have thought that it's a rubber because it's made of rubber, not

it's called rubber because it rubs. Also, I didn't know rubber and latex are from the same thing. Yeah, that's interesting. That's blown my tiny mind. I didn't know they were from the same plant. And I didn't know rubber is suspended in latex. Yeah, look. They're siblings. I didn't know. I mean, I'm. And I didn't know rubber is suspended in latex. Yeah, look. They're siblings. I didn't know. I mean, I'm taking

Britannica's word for this. Okay. Famously. Don't make me doubt it. So yeah, so that's how it got its name. It was a major, its major commercial success came only after the vulcanisation process was invented by Charles Goodyear in 1839.

Goodyear never really made any money out of his discovery though, which is quite sad. I think Bill Bryson goes through this in his history of, short history of nearly everything I want to know that book's called, and he talks about how he like, he put all his money into trying to figure out how to make rubber work and he ended up sort of stumbling upon it slightly accidentally. So he started making money out of his discovery.

He patented it. And he earned money from that, but he spent most of that money he earned in courts fighting companies who were infringing on his patent. He died at the age of 59 in 1860, $200,000 in debt. Oh, no. The Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company from Akron, Ohio, was named after him in 1898,

but it has no connection to him or his family. So it's a pretty sad story, that one, I think. That's a little bit of a sidetrack. Let's get back to Ford-topia. According to Reid, Ford wasn't looking to Brazil simply for the rubber. His goal was to build his vision of the ideal city, a city that would fuse the same concepts that Ford championed

throughout his career and bring a better future to a forgotten part of the planet, and that city would bear his name, Fordlandia. Like he thinks of Brazil, forgotten part of the planet. I mean, maybe you're not thinking about it, but I think Brazilians are still getting about their daily lives. Remembering. It's so weird.

He's looking at a globe, just spins it and goes, how about Brazil? Never heard of it. Yeah. Pretty big. Yeah. It looks like a big chunk of land there. That's weird.

There's probably stuff in there. Yeah, go help people remember Brazil. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, and rubber trees are from there. That's weird. There's probably stuff in there. Yeah, go help people remember Brazil. Yeah. Oh, and rubber trees are from there. That's Andy. Just the audacity to be like, people don't even think of this country. Yeah, it's just a funny mindset. He has some funny mindsets, doesn't he?

He's got a couple. According to Simon Romero, writing for the New York Times, Brazil was home to this plant, the rubber tree, the Hevea brasiliensis, and the Amazon basin had boomed from 1879 to 1912 as industries in North America and Europe fed the demand for rubber. There was a problem, though.

Mass cultivation of rubber trees proved difficult. While the trees grew natively in Brazil, so did parasites and blight that would attack the trees. So when rubber trees were grown too close together, which is what people did to try to, you know, industrialize it or whatever, it made for a perfect breeding ground for these pests. And so it was very hard to do. They grew naturally, sort of pretty separate and, but yeah.

On top of that, a British botanist and explorer smuggled thousands of rubber tree seeds out of Brazil. Brazilian people were making money out of that wood, really hoping that would not happen. He basically stole their industry from them, which led to rubber plantations being set up in British, Dutch and French colonies in Asia. These plantations had similar tropical climates

but no native rubber tree parasites or blight. And as a result, were able to produce rubber trees more efficiently and on a bigger scale. So all of a sudden, yeah, the Brazilian rubber industry was battling. According to Romero, these endeavors on the other side of the world devastated Brazil's rubber economy. But Ford despised relying on the Europeans, fearing a proposal by Winston Churchill to create a rubber cartel. As Reid continues, fresh off the failure of his Alabama development, Ford grew fascinated with the economically ravaged Amazon as a potential site for a reboot of his utopian aspirations.

He had reportedly first become interested in the idea after hearing ex-president Theodore Roosevelt, personal friend, tell of his journey down the river. Increasing rubber prices gave him a practical aspect to his dream. In his utopian mind, Ford's plan for growing rubber in the Amazon was a work of civilization. He believes the values that had made his company a success would build character anywhere else on the planet. In 1928, he went as far to announce, we are not going to South America to make money, but to help develop that wonderful and fertile land. This sort of colonial mindset of we're going to take what's good here.

We'll figure it out here. We're going to spread the love around the world. A little bit of, oh, I'll fix that. Haven't been there, but have a funny feeling they're not doing it as good as I am. No, I don't think they are. I forget about Brazil all the time. Therefore, they're forward.

Yeah, I think they're going to go fix them. Yeah. But the move also represented a certain disenchantment with his home country and a desire to start from scratch in the blank slate of the Amazon jungle. About as blank as it gets, that land. Yeah. Nothing there.

That jungle. Yeah. So, but isn't that, this is what Greg Grandin wrote in his Definitive History of Forlandia, which is kind of like, it's the book that everyone, all these articles, they've all read this book. It all sort of goes back to Greg's work, which I think was even, what's the big American book prize?

I think this book was nominated. Pulitzer. I think it was nominated for the Pulitzer for History maybe. Wow. And this is what a line from Grandin's book said, the force of industrial capitalism Ford helped to unleash was undermining the world he hoped to restore. This is a weird contradiction to me in Ford's thinking.

He's like, American ideals, I want to spread that around. But I also don't like where America's heading, so I want to do it somewhere else. And he's also not realising that a lot of his work has pushed the advancement of industrialisation and capitalism and workers as cogs in a machine. He helped create all of that. So it's just, yeah, it's just interesting that he's got so many blind spots.

Anyway, by 1927, Britain's dominance on the global rubber market was starting to wane, which meant Ford had less reason to set up his own rubber plantation. Due to this, his advisor suggested he instead save himself the trouble and start buying from Brazilian suppliers, basically cutting in the middleman. But it seems his mind was made up. He wanted to get something happening in the Amazon. And by this stage, in his mind, it wasn't just rubber.

It was about saving mankind. He can save everyone in Brazil. Yeah. This guy's about three weeks away from putting a music concert in the middle of the Amazon. Yeah. Amazon aid. He sent one of his trusted associates to Brazil and a deal was made. According to Reid, he received rights to commercially operate a 5,625 square mile tract

of land on the Tapazos River, a tributary of the Amazon, for a total of $125,000. Seems like great value, but apparently it wasn't. But it's a big chunk of land. Ford now had all he needed

to bring his ideals to life in the middle of the jungle. As Grandin notes, Ford had the right to run Fordlandia as a separate state. So it wasn't just the land. He basically was making its own separate country inside. Oh, my God. It was later revealed that Ford's men

had given him something of a raw deal. Apparently, by law, he could have attained the land for next to nothing. I'll talk a bit about it later, but, yeah, his trusted man probably shouldn't have been that trusted. So Ford's utopian vision now had a home, and the problems began instantly. Oh.

That's weird. Weird, because he feels like he gets it. I don't think he's been there. No one gets it like Ford. But he'd be like, you know, Brazil, forgotten place. I'll send people in. We'll just turn this jungle into an American Midwest city. Yeah.

Easy. Like from when I was a boy, you know, when things were right in this world, before that Ford guy came along. To protect themselves from flooding, they chose a location on top of a rise for the side of Fordlandia, but this meant that it was in a position that the cargo vessel hauling their construction supplies

was not going to be able to make it down the Tapasos until the wet season. In the meantime, a crew was assembled and waiting at the site, a crew made up of local Brazilians. They waited there from the second half of 1928. Time wore on, though. They became angered by the delay as well as the fact their food supplies were rotting

and this led to a revolt against the American leadership at the site. So they had a mini revolt and pissed off. Yeah, that happens a few more times. Once the construction supplies finally arrived on site in 1929, work setting up the city was underway. According to Reid, construction finally began under the command of Norwegian-born Einar Oxholm, who oversaw the laying out of Fordlandia's basic street grid.

This guy, apparently, it turns out, didn't mind a bit of rum. He also had no real skills leading men on land. I think he was like a space cowboy. More of a shipman. Oh, yeah. He also had no knowledge of rubber trees. Well, you don't need them. He knows what a tree is.

Yeah. Next question. It's the thing you use to make boats. What's next question? Yeah. No, that's a good point, Cass. I didn't consider that. But now, I think you're starting to get into Henry Fawcett.

Well, because he's been in the ship. He's been in a tree. Yes, that's true. The city was built with a separate neighbourhood, the Villa Americana, for the American staff who work there. Brandon points out that this development was separated from the areas intended for Brazilian workers. Writing, it was offset a bit,

similar to the relationship of suburbia to a city, he says. The Villa Americana had the best view of the city and was the only section with running water, while the Brazilian workers made do with water supplied by wells. Which I think is fair enough. I think utopias normally have sort of inequality built into them, don't they? Yeah. So you've come to utopia, but you've only got a silver class ticket.

Sorry, we've got a platinum over here, gold here, silver only. Sorry. But silver utopia is still pretty good. Yeah, I mean, come on, utopia. It's better than bronze utopia. Look at this piece of shit over here. Clearing the jungle was excruciating work and despite Ford's famously high wages,

so these workers were also getting paid about double what that work in Brazil would normally be getting paid. Labor of the kind needed for the project was in short supply. Amazon wood, which Ford had initially hoped to sell at a profit until rubber could be produced in the territory, proved useless. He thought, I'll probably just be able to sell that wood. Won't look into it any more than that. I don't know.

It's wood. It's useless wood, apparently. Oh. Ah, should have got some of that useful wood. Full of holes. All he knows is metal, right? There's no wood in a car. That's true.

Unless, you know, those 80s station wagons from comedy films. Oh, the panelling, yeah. Like Chevy Chase might have driven in one of his vacation films. While there were many issues, construction on the town continued. Portlandia was constructed as an American-style town, kind of like you wanted, you know, like the Midwest. American-style town makes me think of, like, when people make an American-style diner.

Yeah. And you're like, you could have just made a diner, but what you've done is you've given me some sort of uncanny valley version of what a diner would be by calling it an American diner, and now I feel very uncomfortable. And the American style, like the Australian-American diners, they're always from the 50s, right? Yeah.

They're always like Happy Day style. With an Elvis pinball machine. I have a funny feeling that it might be similar to Australian-style grills in America. They've got a big chain over there. Oh, Outback Steakhouse? Outback Steakhouse. And I haven't been to one, but I've heard that they're pretty funny.

You know, like kangaroos on the wall and stuff. You know, like in Australia. Yeah. I'm looking at one right now. I have definitely been to the British chain of Australian pubs called Walkabout, which is pretty form. And yeah, very similar

sort of strange vibe over there. So, it's an American-style town they're going for, and Ford wanted to be populated by American Ford employees who would relocate, as well as Brazilian workers who would all live by what he considered American values. Obviously with, you know, built-in class divide. That's American values.

Yeah, this sort of confused me a bit. He didn't like what America was becoming, so he constructed a town in the middle of the jungle where he hoped Brazilians would live by American values. Like, it's very confusing. I miss old America. I'm going to make new Americans. Yeah, in Brazil. Maybe he was hoping that in his mind, all these people would be like, wow, this is the correct way to live. How good.

So he was, maybe he wanted the thrill of a new convert. Like, you know, when you show your friend a YouTube video and they actually laugh and you're like, oh, I'm God. Like, I know humor. Like, if you show video and they actually laugh and you're like, oh, I'm God. Like, I know humor. Like, if you show a bunch of new people a completely new way to live, like, imagine the joy that would give you if they were like, hey, wow. Oh, my God, I understand church. You just talked your way into religion.

No, I talked my way into becoming a preach. A preach? What are they called? Priest? Yeah, one of the gods of church that isn't God. Reverend? Yeah, you get to tell everyone what to do and they're like, wow, thank you.

And you're like, oh my God, it wasn't even me, it was God. Cass, I think you're selling yourself short. Let's go for Pope. Yeah. I found that all a bit confusing. But as Grandin wrote, with a surety of purpose and in curiosity about the world that seems all too familiar, Orr deliberately rejected expert advice and set out to turn the Amazon

into the Midwest of his imagination. Yes, yes. I think my favorite part of any story along these lines where someone is falling from a height they don't even recognize is when they start rejecting expert advice. That's always like it's a little delicious treat to hear. You're like, oh, yum. It's like when you're watching a rom-com and like they give each other a look and you're like, yeah,

I know how this is ending. Nice. Oh, okay. But wait, is this after or before that bit two-thirds of the way through the movie when a brief conversation would have fixed everything. But instead, they hate each other and they're sad in a montage separately. This is like the first third of the film. Yeah.

We haven't had the brief conversation that would fix everything. Although, again, this expert could have been a brief conversation to fix everything, but he wasn't going to do it, was he? No. Well, I'm excited for the brief conversation that'll fix everything moment. Yeah, this one isn't a rom-com I'm afraid. There's not gonna be someone who says, hey, why don't we

do this? And it's some sort of, let's undo some of the bad you've done, and he says, no. Uh, no, there's uh, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of those moments. There's a lot of those moments. Okay, good. I don't know, I don't even know how many of them are referenced in here. They're all sort of, they don't need to be said, a lot of it.

But I think a lot of it's in the, you know, reading between the lines. He was doing that every day. He still hasn't been there, by the way. He's doing all this from afar. He has not been. He's just throwing money at it. Yeah. So how does he know what's happening then? Well, he's got American managers from his company there and a bunch of employees about to head over. He's got trusted people that like ripped him off in a deal to buy the place. So hang on. So he is making paradise and he's like, no, I don't want to go yet. Is it ready?

Yeah. Why keep himself from his dream? That's so weird. God, weird guy. I'm calling it weird guy. Yeah, I think he's a little bit of an oddball. Hmm. Well, rich people aren't weird.

They're eccentric. According to Alan Bellows writing for damninteresting.com, scores of Ford employees were relocated to the site. And over the first few months, an American as apple pie community sprung up from what was once a jungle wilderness. It's wild to see the photos. You're like, it's amazing. Like, if you throw a lot of money at something, I guess most things are possible.

Yeah. But if you see photos, you would not assume this is in the jungle parts of it when it was almost seemed like it was working it included a power plant a modern hospital a library a golf course a hotel and rows of white clapboard houses with wicker patio furniture as the town's population grew all manners of businesses followed including tailors shops bakeries butcher shops restaurants and shoemakers it grew into a thriving community with Model T Fords frequenting the neatly paved streets.

Outside of the residential area, long rows of freshly planted saplings soon dotted the landscape. Ford chose not to employ any botanists in the development of Fordlandia's rubber tree fields, instead relying on the cleverness of company engineers, you know, car engineers. Yeah. They know trees.

Metal come from ground, so does plant. Next question. Having no prior knowledge of rubber raising, the engineers made their best guess and planted about 200 trees per acre despite the fact that there are only about seven wild rubber trees per acre in the Amazon jungles. But naturally they grow seven per acre. They've gone, let's go for 200.

I prefer a round number. Yeah, it's just nicer and then that way you won't be able to walk between them. They'll be packed in. I think it's better. The plantations of East Asia were packed with flourishing trees. So like in British Ceylon, there was a bit of a thriving, you know, they'd taken the seeds and they were setting up in tropical areas like

Sri Lanka was working. So it seemed reasonable to assume that the tree's native land would be just as accommodating. That makes sense. Honestly, it'd be even more accommodating, you'd think. Yeah. Let's squeeze in a few more. Unfortunately, Bellows continues,

the tiny saplings weren't growing at all. The hilly terrain hemorrhaged all of its topsoil, leaving infertile rocky soil behind. Those trees, which were able to survive in an arbor adolescence, were soon stricken with leaf blight that ate away the leaves and left the tree stunted and useless. Ford's managers battled the fungus heroically, but they were not armed with the necessary knowledge of horticulture

and their efforts proved futile. Fertile would have been better. Yeah, that would be great. So, yeah, the town, some of the things they're making, it looks like an American town, but the real reason they're there is a disaster at this point. And I say it looked like the town was going well. Under the surface, things, you know,

it looked in a photo like a Midwestern town, but they were in a tropical climate. Right. Is everyone going around wearing their winter clothes as well? Yeah, they got their Sunday best on. Ford's very strict on that. From afar. It's winter here, so it's winter there.

That's right. Today, I'm wearing long pants so you will as well ford did have strict views and they included what a working day should be and that was nine to five dolly parton style this was despite brazilian workers being accustomed to working before sunrise and after sunset to avoid the brutal heat of the day. But he's like, no, that's not how we work. We work nine to five. Oh, my God. He also had strict views on what food should be eaten, and the workers of the town were treated to a diet of oatmeal,

canned peaches, and brown rice. This is what we were talking about before. He's like, this is what works for me. This is what will work for everyone. If you just eat canned peaches, you too will become a multimillionaire. Yeah, that's all you've got to do. They'd be so sick. Like they'd have sick brains from working at wrong times.

They'd have sick bodies from being in the heat. They'd just have heat stroke all the time. Ford was a teetotaler. And he wanted the residents of Fordlandia, of course, to abstain as well. Yeah. Was he a model teetotaler? Thank you. Thank you so much.ain as well. Yeah. Was he a model tea toddler? Thank you. Thank you so much.

Like the car. Yeah. So on his command, the American managers of the town prohibited the consumption of alcohol, which I guess was pretty American because back home in the States, they were in the middle of their prohibition period. And much like the American prohibition, the Fordlandia workers drank anyway other things ford encouraged the locals of his utopia to partake in included

gardening square dancing and the readings of poetry of emerson and longfellow that seemed i think they were like on the weekends the workers had to go to these these square dancing things and these poetry reading stuff it was all it all sounds It all sounds like he's trying to create a cult, only he hasn't done the charismatic thing that cult leaders normally do. Yeah, he's not there. He's not there and everyone there is like, I don't want to do this. It seems like in his attempts to create a utopia, unknowingly just like jamming his foot on the accelerator of capitalism,

he's created team bonding sessions. Yeah. He's created an awful work environment. We're going to do an icebreaker now. Now, you guys all live and work in this town. Now, I think it would be a bit fun and snazzy if we all met up for a little dance, you know, let our hair down, no drinking. It will be a dry event.

But if we could just have a bit of fun, get to know each other, we'll get along better and it will be easy to work if we all feel like friends and if we all feel like family, we'll feel obliged to come. And then we're all going to get married to each other. And your wife is now my wife. So, you know, square dancing, that sounds pretty harmless, right? Bit of a squance. Yeah, but imagine if your wife told you you had to go square dancing,

you'd be like, oh, no. Yeah. Well, apparently there's a bit of a sinister underlying vibe of the square dancing even. I found this great website called, I don't know if you've heard this one, wikipedia.org. Oh, is that Brazilian? I think it, yeah, it seems to be kind of based around Fordlandia-based facts

and sort of Ford being anti-Semitic. Right. A lot of facts around that sort of area. Wikimedia. Wikipedia.org. Where the look? Okay. I mean, it's pretty narrow.

It's like a knockoff. It's like not a good encyclopedia. No. Yeah, that's right. I don't even spell encyclopedia right. Can we trust him? Well, I don't know. Anyway, I'm not sure.

But anyway, this is what it said of square dancing and Ford. Part of Ford's racist and anti-Semitic legacy includes the funding of square dancing in American schools because he hated jazz and associated its creation with Jewish people. Okay. I personally have never heard that, but, and square dancing is the answer. Yeah. Okay, this guy has too much money.

I'm standing at the storage unit. The doors have opened and that's, I can't unpack all that. It's too much. I'm shutting the door. Is it like, oh, yeah, you came for some square dancing? Why is that? Henry, are you okay, mate? Well, I mean, clearly you're not, but yeah,

he hated jazz. Yeah, wild. And apparently there's a big history of square dancing. There was a few articles about it. Square dancing is like a white supremacy thing, which blew my fucking mind. What? Look, if I, when you were saying square dancing, I was assuming it was one of those, you know, like Kellogg's, how they invented cornflakes to stop people masturbating.

Yes. I thought it was like one of those weird, like purity things. But yeah, I think it seems like it's kind of, I don't know. I'm confused by it. And maybe there's more to this story. I didn't read too deeply into it. Like if your end goal is white supremacy, what do you think is happening there?

Yeah, very, very strange stuff. Anyway, I don't think the Brazilian workers were particularly keen on Ford's utopian vision as according to Ben McIntyre writing for the New York Times, the American overseers found it hard to retain employees. Those who stayed died in large numbers from viper bites, malaria, yellow fever and numerous other tropical afflictions. You know, great Midwestern town.

There's a bakery there and everyone's, there's a golf course. And yellow fever. Prohibition was supposed to be rigorously upheld, but after a day spent hacking at the encircling jungle, the workers headed to the bars and bordellos that sprang up around the site. Knife fights erupted. Venereal disease was rife. Along with prohibition, Ford's other rules were also resented,

particularly the rice and peach diet. When a new cafeteria was introduced in place of waiter service, the men rioted, destroying the mess hall and wrecking every vehicle on the property. Apparently in Brazil at that time, they were used to waiter service, so they were like, what the fuck is this? That led to the riot. That led

to one of the riots. Oh, okay. Not all the other conditions, but... I think, I have a funny feeling there was a build-up of all that. Bit of the straw camel. Yeah, that was maybe the straw that broke the other conditions but i think i have a funny feeling there was a build-up of all that bit of the straw but that was yeah that was maybe the straw that broke the camel's back it often is something small that breaks you at the end to be like oh my goodness okay all these really small awful insidious things but you can't even give us the common decency of service at a restaurant yeah like not only do you think we need to be controlled, but you don't even give us...

I'd riot. I like to think I would have rioted earlier. That's it. Also in Ford's quest for utopia, according to Romero, so-called sanitation squads operated across the outpost. Oh, God, this sounds awful already. Killing stray dogs, draining puddles of water where malaria-transmitting mosquitoes could multiply.

That one feels fair enough. That one's okay. And checking employees for venereal diseases. Oh, gosh. That's what I – Checking employees for – checking? Yeah, doesn't that sound a bit weird? But also it sort of sounds a bit like a utopia for me.

Dead dogs. Dead dogs near the empty holes where the deadly mosquitoes were. Checking your junk without your consent maybe. Drop them, spread them. Knife fights. Yeah, the knife fights are really selling it for me. No waiters. Yeah. Cut out that middleman. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth.

Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Death is in our air this year's most anticipated series fx's shogun only on disney plus we live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart is to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+.

18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Despite Ford's narrow and sometimes strange vision of what a utopia looked like, things somehow started to come together for the city. According to Reid, the city would come to feature modern hospitals, schools, generators and a sawmill.

By the end of 1930, its landmark structure was complete, a water tower, utilitarian beacon of modernity for Ford's civilising project. I think Reid definitely, Reid's article definitely adds a slightly more positive, even though it's overall negative.

He finds more positives in the story, I think. He's like, oh, he tried. Yeah. They had a water tower? Yeah, come on. Yeah. It was a big thing. Imagine looking up at that water tower, sober as a brick,

wishing you could dance to some jazz and being like, we did it. I'd come into this with a pretty negative vibe over the whole project, but you've just turned me around a bit. Yeah. Your neighbour's died of malaria. You've got a viper bite and you're not sure what's happening, but hey, we're dancing it a bit. You can go to hospital for that viper bite when you're ready.

Yeah. And there's a tower full of water. Beautiful. Up in the sky where the water comes from. Yeah. The hospital's quite nice as well. It's a nice hospital. Fantastic.

Could I just order a lasagna with someone on my way there? Oh, my God. What? Riot. But just as things seemed to be settling down, there was another workers' revolt. Like there were many of these, but this seems like one of the more famous ones.

In December, this is according to Bellows, in December of 1930, after about a year of working in a harsh environment with a strict and disagreeable healthy lifestyle in inverted commas, the laborer's agitation reached critical mass in the worker's cafeteria. Having suffered one too many episodes

of indigestion and degradation, a Brazilian man stood and shouted that he would no longer tolerate the conditions. A chorus of voices joined his, and the cacophony was soon joined by an orchestra of banging cups and shattering dishes. Members of Fordlandia's American management fled swiftly to their homes or into the woods, some of them chased by machete-wielding workers. A group of managers scrambled to the docks and boarded the boats there,

which they moved to the centre of the river and out of reach of the escalating riots. According to Romero, they smashed time clocks, cut electricity to the plantation and chanted, Brazil for Brazilians, kill all the Americans, forcing some of the managers to flee into the jungle. Back to Bellows. By the time the Brazilian military arrived three

days later, the rioters had spent most of their anger. Windows were broken and trucks were overturned, but Fordlandia survived. Work resumed shortly, though the rubber situation had not improved. A British journalist writing for the Indian Rubber Journal, which I love that that existed, visited in 1931 and wrote, In a long history of tropical agriculture, never has such a vast scheme been entered in such a lavish manner and with so little to show for the money. Mr Ford's scheme is doomed to failure.

And this is over a year in at this point, isn't it? Yeah. So it's a year in there, like, it's probably not going to go well. Yeah. After it's already tanking. So that's a year in there, like it's probably not going to go well. Yeah. After it's already tanking. That's 1930, they're saying that. They forged on though.

By the time, you know, obviously the workers are coming in and out. They're not holding on to that many. So I guess that's why there's a few revolts because new people are here and we're going, wait, what?

The new people are like, oh, I've never revolted before. yeah i'm yeah i could i can do a revolt by the time of the december 1930 riot the city had already seen multiple managers come and go from america and again a new manager was needed according to reed ford finally found a successful manager in archibald johnson who turned the city around after the riot paving roads, finishing much of the city's housing and beginning work on access roads to connect Fordlandia with the massive territory Ford had acquired inland from the river. Apparently they built a lot of roads because they're like,

you know what another fun thing people do in my utopia? They drive for fun. Cars. Just get out and have a drive. And this is literally a road to nowhere. Yeah, just like miles of sort of winding roads around the place. Are they still there? They were paved.

Some of it. Yeah. We'll talk about that later. Jora ride? Jora ride? Jora ride? Oh, yeah. Day trip?

Oh, yeah. Dunked down to the Amazon. I think it takes about 18 hours by river from the nearest sort of place you can fly into to get. It's like really remote. But how long by car? Like water car? No, I'm thinking a Model T. A Model T.

The best car there is. Yeah. Well, it'll take as long as the guy in front of you who's chopping down the jungle to make a path for you. Okay. Probably a while. It'll be worth it for getting on that little stretch of road. It was perhaps under

Johnson that Fordlandia came closest to Ford's original idea. He succeeded in bringing many of the amenities typical of American towns into the heart of the Amazon Basin. This is from Reid. The centrepiece was an entertainment facility that screened Hollywood films and also held dances. Square dances?

Sinistic square dances. Health and education facilities were also improved. Johnson saw to it that many of Ford's behavioural edicts were put into place including the strict diet, though the alcohol provision still remained hard to enforce. But one

problem remained. Fordlandia was not producing any rubber. Jungle foliage continued to be cleared but efforts to plant rubber trees yielded discouraging results. Few trees that took root were quickly beset by blight. Like, it's just impossible. It's so weird. This is where rubber trees come from.

Why can't we grow rubber trees here? We haven't thought to ask anyone who knows about trees, but still. But there's nothing to know about trees. They wouldn't tell you anything new. Yeah, your plan, they grow. Put them in the ground and they grow. They're not working. That's weird. Yeah. Next hole. But it wasn't

only the rubber trees and Brazilian workers who had an awful time. According to Romero, Amazon offered its own challenges to the Americans, would you believe? Some couldn't adapt to the conditions, suffering nervous breakdowns. One drowned when a storm on the Tapasos River toppled his boat. One of the previous managers left after three of his children died from tropical fevers.

According to McIntyre, many of the American managers really struggled with the conditions. This story comes from back towards the start of 1929, when two Ford employees, Johansson, a Scot, and Tolkstorff, a German, headed upriver with orders to collect rubber seeds. Instead, they went on an alcoholic bender. Party boat!

On the journey, they also marooned their cook on a desert island. A deserted island. This is like the original Hangover movie. And they ended up in the tiny town of Barra. There, Johansson, who was the self-proclaimed rubber seed king of the upper rivers. No one is challenging that title.

It's so funny on, you know, how this whole plantation ended up. You're the seed king, not the tree king, are you? Mate, I've sold seeds everywhere. So the seed king bought some perfume in this little town of Barra from a trading post and was seen chasing goats, cows and chickens, attempting to anoint the animals with perfume and shouting, Mr Ford has lots of money. You might as well smell good too.

They were just losing their minds. Another man, sounds like he lost his mind, purposely hurled himself from a boat into a nest of crocodiles. Okay. And how'd it go? I don't think it went well for him. You might as well smell nice as well, crocodile. He fed an entire family.

Yeah, that's true. Which is, it's producing more than the whole of their Ford-topia. That's very true. Circle of life. The great carmaker himself witnessed none of this. He never set foot in the town that bore his name. Yet his powerful, contradictory personality influenced every aspect of the project. As Ford fatally despised experts.

He just hated experts. Such a funny character trait. I hate experts. Oh, you know a lot about this thing? Get out of my sight. Get out. If you're having a stab at it, yeah, I'll listen. Hands up who knows the answer to this question.

All right, everyone with their hand up, get out. You're fired. Okay, who knows the answer to this question? 50 people with their hand up. How many of you have studied this? 40 people keep their hand up? You're fired. You're fired.

Immediately leave. So did he consider, so he must not have considered himself an expert on anything? I consider myself very lucky and I surround myself with other very lucky people. So it's not just to this point that he doesn't get there. He never gets there. In the decades of Fordlandia,

and it lasted for decades somehow. And he never goes there ever. Not decades, but like more than a decade though and he never sets foot there. Is he just too busy? Yeah, I guess so. Did he go there initially to scope it out? He sent some trusted men.

Yeah, and then he got a shit deal. Oh, yeah, the trusted men. Basically, he just circled an area on a map and said, you go there and sort it out. He doesn't like experts, and this is McIntyre still writing here. Ford's Amazon team had plenty of able men, but as Grandin observes, what it didn't have was a horticulturalist, agronomist, which is a – I have to look up what that meant.

I don't know how to pronounce it, but it's an expert in the science of soil management and crop production, which would have been handy. Didn't have a botanist, didn't have a microbiologist, an entomologist or any other person who might know something about jungle rubber and its enemies, which included lace bugs, leaf blight, and also there were swarms of caterpillars that apparently left areas of the plantation as bare as bean poles.

And he's like, oh, that's a shame. Weird. Fix it. I mean And he's like, oh, that's a shame. Weird. Fix it. I mean, he's not even saying, I wonder what his picture of it is from back at home as well. He's just going, huh, apparently I've got another letter. They're still not having any luck with this. It's just not real to him.

I don't think he experiences empathy in the same way that a lot of people experience empathy. Or he just has no concept of it. Or he truly is an expert of none. He's not even an expert on how to breathe, you know, like. Yeah, you're assuming that he's getting these body counts as well because people are dying on the regular there. You're like, hey, they got taken out by a viper.

Unless he's just sitting there being like, oh, weird. Yellow fever. One guy threw himself into crocodiles. And how'd that turn out for him? This sounds like hell. Goodness gracious. Yellow fever. One guy threw himself into crocodiles. And how'd that turn out for him? This sounds like hell. Goodness gracious. He'll be like, that guy was being paid $16 an hour whilst he was jumping into crocodiles.

That's pretty good. And in the end, we're also producing rubber. So, you know, are we producing rubber? I haven't checked that in a while. Oh, still not. Square Downs are going well? That's weird. Get the Seed King on.

Yeah. No, do you reckon when he proclaimed himself the Seed King, he was like, oh, not too expert-y. Get off it. Yeah, yeah. Very lucky Seed King. Not only did Ford seem to hate experts, according to Romero,

Ford also seemed to abhor learning from the past. History is bunk, Ford told the New York Times back in 1921. What difference does it make how many times the ancient Greeks flew their kites? He just didn't want to learn from the past. He said that the only history that matters is the history

we make today. It seems Henry Ford truly was a bit of a fuckhead. He seemed to finally make a good decision, though, when he hired expert botanist James R. Weir. Finally hired a botanist. Whoa, what was that meeting like? What did he ask him to do?

Yeah. He asked him to teach square dancing. Weir tried to get some trees to finally grow, but concluded that the damp and hilly terrain was not up to the task. As it turned out, the previous owner of the land was related to that trusted man Ford sent down to organize

the purchase of the land. He was sold a pup. It was a dud. So they, like, he paid too much for the land and it was basically not built for purpose. The land couldn't grow the trees. They were doing it wrong anyway.

Even if they were doing it right, they would have battled to grow rubber trees there. That's good. I'm glad that the good land went to not him. You know, I'm glad he didn't. What do you mean it works? I'm glad he didn't desecrate. I mean, he desecrated some land, but, you know, he didn't ruin soil.

The soil wasn't good enough to begin with. He didn't. I couldn't imagine this story being like, cool, nothing ever grew from there again. But if it never grew in the first place, that's not so bad. Yes, that's what it sounds like. It just wasn't particularly good for what he wanted it to be anyway. But, yeah, it feels like it would have been a waste for it

to have been perfect rubber tree growing land. That would have hurt. We recommended a new plantation site be found and according to Bellows, Ford purchased a new tract of land 50 miles downstream, establishing the town of Belterra. It was more flat and less damp, making it much more suitable for the finicky rubber trees. He also imported some grafts from the East Asian plantations

where the trees had been bred for resistance to the leaf blot. Starting from scratch, the new enterprise showed more promise than its predecessor, but progress was slow. For 10 years, Ford's workers laboured to transform soil into rubber, yielding a peak output of 750 tonnes of latex in 1942, far short of that year's goal of 38,000 tonnes. Oh, that is so far off.

Yeah. So do you note the year there? 1942. So this started in 1929. Jesus. 13 years later, they're still just getting a little bit of rubber going. Was he just rich enough to keep funding this? Yeah, basically.

And he just, it didn't even occur to him to think. I tell you, I don't wonder if it was born out of stubbornness or what, but Bellows continues, be that as it may, Ford's perseverance might have eventually paid off if it were not for the fact that scientists developed economical synthetic rubber just as Belterra was establishing itself. So as he finally started making little Ford Momentum,

synthetic rubber became a thing. Having really been a disaster on all levels, you'd probably expect that Ford would pull the pin on the project, but it rolled on. According to Reid, despite having outlived their economic rationale, Fordlandia and Belterra nonetheless persisted for a little longer. But as Ford's car manufacturing operation became increasingly involved in the Second World War effort,

his holding in Brazil filled with American military personnel. By the time the war ended, Henry Ford was in poor health. Management of the company fell to war ended, Henry Ford was in poor health. Management of the company fell to his grandson, Henry Ford II, who promptly cut into the company's ballooning costs by selling underperforming assets. Fordlandia was first on the chopping block. Ford II sold it back to Brazil for a fraction of what his grandfather had originally paid. Apparently Ford had pumped about 20 million dollars into Fordlandia at the time there and ended selling it back to the Brazilian government

for around $250,000. Oh, that's a big loss. It made a huge loss. The moment news of the sale reached Fordlandia, its American residents headed home, leaving its Brazilian residents wondering what had hit them. They're just like all of a sudden their jobs are gone. The town has just basically been left to be a ghost town all of a sudden.

And they're like, well, I thought we were starting to get some rubber happening here. I mean, it's a really long time, but you'd have that within living memory for everyone who was an adult moving in there, you know? You'd be like, oh, cool. We're working. This guy's paying us a heap of money. Life's so weird now. Why are they making us do all this?. Life's so weird now. Yeah.

Why are they making us do all this? I can go home? Yeah. I don't have to square dance? But kids were born there. Like families, generations were there. They were, you know, families were living there. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, yeah, this town, it's sort of, that's it.

It doesn't exist anymore. Yeah. The city's population once in the thousands dropped to less than 100 over the ensuing decades. Some lived in the old workers' bungalows as squatters as the city fell into ruin around them. Reid writes that Fordlandia's death was a quiet one. Equipment from the sawmill and generator

was left to the elements and vandals over the years, rusting in the thick Amazon air. The iconic water tower, which we all know and love. Oh, beacon. Yeah. Reid loves this water tower. The iconic water tower still stands to this day, though it no longer holds any water,

and the Ford logo proudly painted on it has long since faded. In the past decade. So it's just rubbish now. Yeah. Okay. Rubbish in the sky. Cool beacon. In the past decade, however,

Fordlandia has enjoyed something of a renaissance. Part of that is cultural. Its history has been revisited in news articles, documentaries, and even in music. Icelandic minimalist composer Johan Johansson released an album in 2008 inspired by the city. After the population languished to under 100 for several decades, it has now rebounded to about 3,000 people in recent years.

Wow. So the population is starting to grow. It's just... They've moved in? Yeah. Yeah, people have just sort of moved in. I've read stories of like a squatter came in and did up one of the old homes and then sold it at a profit.

It's really interesting because it was just sort of this little city that's sitting in the middle of nowhere. But some people never left. A lot of the workers did, but some stayed. How big did the population get at its max? It was into the thousands and now it's back into the thousands. It's really interesting. One of the current locals, a retired milkman named Expedito Duarte Debrito lives in one of the

homes built for Ford managers back in the day. And the street he lives on, Palm Avenue, which is, we're making an American town. Palm Avenue sounds perfect. It maintains multiple stately, largely well-preserved homes, even, you know, 100 years later. DeBrito says after the Americans left, it was a, quote, looter's paradise with thieves taking furniture, doorknobs, anything the Americans left behind. Hey, they left this knob. The treasure trove of knobs here. Come on, everybody.

This is a knob looter's paradise. here. Come on, everybody. This is a no-blood-as-paradise. So, Debrito said when he goes, I thought, either I occupy this piece of history or it joins the other ruins of Fordlandia. I may as well take

this nice home. That's a great way to justify it, isn't it? He was speaking to Simon Romero, who I've quoted, who wrote the article for the New York Times. He wrote about the city after visiting in 2017 by the time he arrived the jungle had already swallowed the winding brook golf course and floods and erosion had ravaged the cemetery leaving concrete crosses strewn across the ground it's really there's a really interesting photo where um the the concrete crosses and also the base

that would normally sit under the ground, they're all just sitting flat because erosion, floods and erosion have meant that over time they just all came out of the soil and lying flat on the ground. I'm guessing above, you know, all of the people who passed away. That is just so the soil rejected everything. Yeah, yeah, that's right. As Romero put it,

the ruins of Fordlandia stand as a testament to the folly of trying to bend the jungle to the will of man. I want to conclude with this paragraph by Bellows, which I thought was a pretty apt way to finish. It was how he finished his article about it. He wrote, Henry Ford's losses in Fordlandia and Belterra are equivalent to 200 million

in modern dollars. I think it's even more than that, but anyway. Certainly he was unable to buy his way into rubber royalty and his efforts to spread his American, quote, healthy lifestyle were met with resentment and hostility. But history has repeatedly shown that obscene wealth gives one the

privilege, perhaps one the privilege, perhaps even the obligation, to make bizarre and astonishing mistakes on a grand scale. From that perspective, Fordlandia could not have been more successful. That's been my report on Fordlandia. All those articles I quoted will be listed in the show notes, of course. And yeah, I'll be posting a bunch of photos on social media this week if you want to check them out. I'm very excited to see those.

How cool, I'd never heard of it. No, I'd never heard of it either. So thank you so much to Tegan, Ben and Alex for suggesting it. Yeah, really interesting. I've heard bits of stuff about Henry Ford and it's always been people talking about what an enterprising young guy he was. It sounds like he sucks. it sounds like he sucks it sounds like he sucks yeah like he definitely had some things that he was very good at but he had some things he was awful at and uh yeah some it's he's just that

whole birth of like it seems like he was middle stage and he was ramping it into late stage capitalism just being like hey you know if we make enough money we can all be rich and everyone's like oh sounds cool and also yeah but and just like being so blinded to the fact that what he thought was going wrong with america was something he was strongly contributing to. Oh, absolutely a part of. That is just horrendous. And like the anti-Semitism and then, you know, Second World War's happening, which. But he refuses to learn from the past. Oh, man.

It's just. Yeah. He just sounded like. His whole attitude of refusing to learn from the past and then being so terrified of the future. He needed help. Like to be so trapped in what you consider to be the present, then hating change, hating the future,

and deciding you're still not going to learn from the past but you're going to try and live in it. Yeah. He had some whack things with time. Yeah, so many messy thoughts that, yeah, not a lot of logic going on. An engineer, he knew how to make things on a, you know, he could do a factory floor, but the rest he seemed like he wasn't too good at. I think I read that in the end he was, the company control was taken away from him. him basically he was pressured into

um passing it on to his grandson i think his son died relatively young like in his 40s maybe and um his wife and uh maybe his daughter-in-law or something like that that if you don't pass over control of the company to your grandson we're selling our shares and their shares were worth company, the grandson, we're selling our shares and their shares were worth the majority of the company. So he was like, his wife and his daughter-in-law, someone close to him, they're basically like, you're not in control anymore. Yeah, you've got to get out.

You've got to get out. Well, if you're going to take the company, we're going to do it faster. Yeah, and that's what, once he ceded control, that's when Fordlandia was offloading. Hearing that and the fact that they didn't do that for the 13 years of Fordlandia, you think how bad were his decisions at the end that they went, oh, that's it.

Yeah. All right, we've got to do something. Apparently there was genuine concerns about the company going under and stuff and this is in a time when cars are just massive, you know. People were driving for fun. Yeah, yeah. I hate learning of it because I've always barracked for Ford at Bathurst and it's just like, ah, it really sucks that it's named after, yeah.

Can you separate the art from the artist? I think if we've learned anything, it's don't look at the past, right? Yeah, I think he was've learned anything, it's don't look at the past, right? Yeah. He was right. Well, anyway, that was the story of Fordlandia. I think there's a lot of lessons in there for people who want to learn from history. Obviously, that would be silly to do. Yeah, it's bunk. History's bunk.

It almost feels like a lot of those lessons are just pure common sense oh having a think would have benefited this man and all of the people who he had financial responsibility for greatly yes anyway that brings us to everyone's favorite section of the show that's where we like to thank a few of our great supporters these are the people who keep this show on the road they They keep the lights on. They keep us going or whatever. They keep the seed king in seeds. Yes. They keep us seedy. And

if you want to get involved and support the show, you can go to patreon.com slash do go on pod or do go on pod dot com. And there's a bunch of Dave, what are some of the things that our supporters get? Well, we put out three bonus episodes every single month and if you sign up, you also get access to the previous month's bonus episodes

and I mean all the months. There's 135 or something of them that you can catch up with and it's only adding more and more each month. You can join our Facebook group just for our Patreon supporters. It's a lovely place on the internet. You get pre-sales on tickets. We give you shoutouts as we're about to do and yeah, you become part of

the community, which we love. The first thing we like to do is the Fat Quote or Question section, which has a little jingle. Cass, I think you go something like this. Fat Quote or Question. Ding! You always remember the ding. And to get involved in this, you go to you sign up and you sign up on

the Sydney Schomburg level. And yeah, for this one, you get to give us a fact, a quote or a question. You also get to give yourself a title and I'll read four of them out each week. I read them out on the show live. I haven't read them out before. So, like I say. There's no rehearsal here. No rehearsal.

Okay. So if I stumble on something, okay, give us a freaking break. Yeah, he'll do it on the night. So the first one comes from Paul Mello. What a guy this guy is. I follow him on Twitter. He posts these nice photos walking in a forest every day and they always make me feel nice.

I'm like, you know, a little peaceful corner of Twitter is Paul Mello's morning walk photos. Anyway. More like Paul Mello. Am I right? Because I'm calm. Yeah, big time. So Paul's given himself the title of shareholder of fun.

Something you should say, Cass, even though the segment's called Fat Quota Question, the full title is Fat Quota Question, Brag or Suggestion. And I think there's a few others that have slowly filtered in as well. And Paul has given us, this is one of the rare ones we get. He's given us a brag. Oh yes, I love a brag.

I love a brag and we give you full permission to brag. Yes, that's right. This is a safe space to brag away. It's a braggadocious place. For sure. I love it. I know a lot of our listeners are, you know, pretty triggered by words like safe space,

but, you know, that's on you, man. Anyway. This is a safe space to be triggered. Don't worry. I know you're all beautiful cucks out there. All right. So this is Paul's brag. I have a brag for you all this time,

and the brag is that I own shares in a professional football club. Whoa, Paul Mellor. Holy shit. The club in question is Real Oviedo, possibly, or Real Oviedo. Sorry, Paul. They are based in the city of Oviedo. Cass, just to back me up here, what would you say that? Yeah, Oviedo?

Oviedo. I don't know. I don't know where it is. It's in Asturias, which is in northern Spain. They've been around since 1926, but in 2012, they hit upon really hard times financially, and through an internet share campaign, they were helped by investment

of football fans from over 80 countries raising more than 2 million euros they then got investment from one of the richest people in the world carlos slim and this really steadied the club maybe carlos seems like a modern day henry ford carlos, Carlos Slim. He is slim but his pockets are fat. You're in jingling mode now. You'll jingle anything. Paul goes on, I bought shares for my daughter and I in 2015 as I like the idea of supporting a Spanish football team

and use some other shareholders. They are also an underdog and plain blue. Via Twitter, I made friends with several supporters and in 2018 we finally made the trip to the club. Unfortunately, they lost on that visit, but we did get to go to the game,

meet our friends and also meet the team after the game. Oh, awesome. That seems nice. They welcomed us with open arms and Oviedo is a beautiful city. He's got listed a link there with a thread showing the trip. If I remember, I'll retweet. Listeners, remind me if I forget.

They currently play in the second tier of Spanish football, La Liga. La Liga Smart Bank and dream of the days they will get back to the top tier. We even have a local English supporters group called Oviadista Northwest and have met up in Manchester for drinks and tapas. We watch the games online, but we hope to get back there someday to go see them win. Vamos, Oviado. That's great.

That's lovely. That's so cool. What a great brag. Doesn't that show the power of the internet? I'm becoming like a big internet freak. Guys, I know you're all pretty rough on the internet, but tell me that like 40 years ago, could you have somehow become an investor of a Spanish team from England?

You know what I mean? Think about it. Thank you, Paul. The next one comes from David Loring, aka the master of ceremonies. And David offers us a fact, which is, I'm a wedding celebrant as a side hustle

and one of the things I love educating my couples on is that when you're getting married in a civil ceremony, you have an enormous amount of freedom and flexibility to what you include. Aside from the minimum legal requirements to make your ceremony compliant with the Marriage Act, there are also, I don't know what he said, where he's from.

I'm not sure where he's from. So depending on where this Marriage Act is. But anyway, there are almost no limitations on how you choose to celebrate that within the ceremony you create for your special day. So for instance, if you were one third of a podcasting triumvirate who recently got engaged,

there would be nothing to stop you doing a live episode during which you got married. Perhaps while some twins of Sass provided running commentary throughout, or they could even evolve into Sass witnesses when it comes to signing certificates. This, of course, assumes that not only would you be willing to dedicate

a major life milestone and emotional highlight of your life to your fact-based comedy podcast, but that your fiance would as well. Lastly, a big congratulations to Dave on the engagement. to your fact-based comedy podcast, but that your fiance would as well. Lastly, a big congratulations to Dave on the engagement. I should have led with that at the start, but didn't want this to sound like a sales pitch.

I'm sure I speak for the rest of the patrons when I say it was legitimately heartwarming news to read. Thank you very much. Thank you. And Noah will not be doing a live podcast for my wedding. But I appreciate the thought. It's cool to know that it's possible for anyone who would want to do that. Yeah, that's right.

Put live podcast at the wedding. I think I know a few people who would borderline do something like that for the podcast, but I think Dave probably wouldn't mind having a day away from it. Imagine the guests at the wedding, you know, friends and family that are like, oh, my God,

they're doing a live podcast. You know, ceremonies drag on long enough as it is, and I'm like, we're going to do an hour podcast now. Some of them would also be like, what does that mean? It would be so confusing. Great Uncle Jim's like, what the fuck? What's happening? Thank you very much, David.

Yeah, and that's my engagement via a pie photo late 2021. It was a beautiful moment. Thank you very much. And something that I don't think was included in that post was your partner suggested that. That I do the pie photo, yeah. And then you were like, are you sure? Yes.

But that would have sounded very defensive if you wrote that in the description. By the way. So, you know. I also don't think this was the appropriate way to announce it, but partner thought it would be very funny. So, okay. Look, let's leave it at that. The next one comes from Drew Forsberg,

aka Lieutenant Junior Vice President of Maple Syrup Storage. Emeritus. Am I saying emeritus right? Emeritus. Emeritus, thank you. Drew has asked a question, which is, what is best in life? Okay.

I think he's going to offer some options here. This is actually not a reference to Conan the Barbarian. It's a genuine question to which activity derives the most satisfaction for you. I normally ask people who ask a question to answer their question. And Drew writes, mine is sitting around a fire at night with familiar friends, preferably sans light pollution. Love that. Just the fire and the stars. Familiar friends, not these light pollution. Love that. Just the fire and the stars. Familiar friends, not

these unfamiliar friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that, Drew. That does sound great. Sitting around a fire at night without light pollution. Love it. What is best in life? Fuck, that's a broad question. Cass, you got an answer that comes to mind? I think the things that make me go, oh,

like if the moon's real big or if the sky is very good, I will audibly go, oh. Oh, I love a good sky. I love pointing out, I love just saying, check out the moon. It's huge. Being just like, oh, that's nice. Every now and then I'll look at the, because I swear, I think the sunset gets more vibrant if there's been a fire

and I think there's definitely a scene in Bruce Almighty where he pulls the moon a bit closer so the moon looks extra beautiful and then it causes like global havoc on the tidal systems. So every time I notice those things, I'm aware that, you know, at least if the world is ending, it's going to be so beautiful the whole time it happens. That's a silver lining. I'm like, wow, if this is it, what an it.

That's great. Yeah, that sounds, I think any of that sort of beautiful nature-y stuff, that's something I started getting into that with over the last few years on Facebook. I just started liking any beautiful nature photos and now the algorithm just floods my feed with beautiful nature-y stuff. Yeah. And I love all that sort of stuff, I think.

Being thick in the source of nature is good. Swam in a gorge recently. Oh, man. Never done that before. That's so good. Wow. Stunning. Waterfalls.

Oh, my God. Any of that sort of stuff. Up in the Alpine regions of Victoria is all very, very pretty. If you're up in the ocean and the waves are a bit goey and so you just get bobbed around and you're like, oh, I'm a little grape in a cup of water or something. I love getting bobbed. I think the other one I would say is like just a nice beer garden

with some mates, a nice day, no plans, just. Just vibes. Yeah, not thinking about work in the morning or something. Just, you know, just feeling like those times and often they're out in nature or wherever where it just feels like you're not thinking about tomorrow, just really present in the moment. Love those times. I love walking along the ocean when the breeze is blowing in

and just sucking in the air through my nose. Oh, yeah. It feels like I'm cleaning out my lungs, even though I know I'm definitely not doing that. Just going. Oh. Oh. Love that.

Yeah, that sounds nice. Life doesn't get better than that. Oh, these are all great things. Thank you very much for that question, Drew. And finally, from Nathan Swapp, a.k.a. Sky Captain of the Time Zeppelin. Sometimes I don't understand what it means and then in their comment or question or whatever it explains, sometimes it doesn't.

Does that make sense to you? Yeah. Do you know what Sky Captain of the Time Zeppelin means? No, I mean, aside from literally. What does it literally mean? I mean, Zeppelin goes in the sky. Yes. Time Zeppelin, I'm imagining it travels through time.

Okay. Captain, as you would captain a ship. Sky, I don't think is really needed. I know where Zeppelin goes. Please find Sky. Yeah, okay. That makes sense to me. Alright. You've helped me out there, Cass. The film called Sky Captain in the World of Tomorrow?

If there's more to get, I didn't get it. No, I just thought it might have been a reference to the thing. That's what I meant. I didn't mean you did help me out there. I think I was probably on a similar page. Ass page. Anyway, Nathan asked a question this week writing, if you guys could travel to any place and time to spend a holiday,

maximum a month, where would you want to go? And is there a time and place in history that you would be happy to move to permanently? Bonus question, what would be your time machine vehicle? Do you want to hear Nathan's answers before you give us? Absolutely. You're right. My answers.

I would love to spend a month in medieval Europe and hang out with kings and emperors. Feast, party, watch a battle or two. It's like the ultimate glamping. He was brushing over how horrific medieval battles were. I would love to move to 1880 to 1914 America slash Europe. It has electricity and plumbing and to me the peak time for art and architecture.

My time travel vehicle would be a Zeppelin. I want to put the fear of God in the peasants and awe in emperors. Well, I think he sort of explained his title there. That does explain the title. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm happy enough living now, I think. Yeah. I don't think I'd move anywhere permanently.

And I feel like we have enough, because if we're talking about traveling back in time, we have enough now that we could create any kind of life for ourselves that we wanted in a way or to some extent. Like if you travel back to medieval times and you were like, this rules, you'd be able to recreate some sort of living there without having to give up, you know, your wonderful do-go-on podcasts, for example,

which I know you would be very sad to lose. Yeah, I would never travel back as far in time as podcasting exists. Yeah, I mean, geez, that's a hard question. I often think like if I could, it'd be great to see, you know, some big event, a band that no longer exists, I mean, geez, that's a hard question. I often think like if I could, it would be great to see, you know, some big event, a band that no longer exists, you know, seeing the Beatles live or seeing Elvis or seeing Chuck Berry or, you know, whatever. Yeah.

I don't know. I feel like I should have an answer to this already. But, yeah, for a month. And I always, like maybe it's my brain being negative, but I'm always like depending on when you go back, like medicine also goes backwards and all these other things do as well. Yeah. I think it would be, it's interesting because when you talk about like

seeing old bands and stuff, it's like, oh, it would be cool to witness a historical event that people spoke about really fondly. But when people talk about events really, really fondly, they're either talking about the run on effects from historical context that came later. So they're like, oh, all these people knew they were part of something, but they didn't know what it was till later. So going back to those events, really, really cool. But if you're going back to an event that people are talking about fondly, just because they're nostalgic, it would be really interesting to see what sucked.

Yeah. You know, like, what if it sucked? And how much, how a lot of the people there might have been not actually having a good time. Yeah, like Woodstock or something. Yeah, like Woodstock. I think it would be really interesting to travel back to either, I think it's around the 40s in Hollywood where stars were really manufactured,

like a couple of them. I think, was it, I've forgotten their name. There was onewood starlet who they had like a hollywood name but it wasn't their original name and i think they pretty much had their ethnicity whitewashed out so they could be famous like they had like like um really big beautiful eyebrows it got completely like plucked so they looked whiter like all these different things done to their features their hair got bleached and seeing the machine of how someone

gets like manufactured would be very interesting and i'm guessing because we're traveling back in time in my mind i'm like oh i'm observing i'm not stopping anything but it'll be really interesting to see how old hollywood machines and fame worked when that decided to become relevant like when fame was properly invented for film right um alternatively i'd love to go to studio 54 because it sounds like maybe it sucked really yeah like all those crazy parties like wow it was so but i think people say it's crazy because it was exclusive and the people who were there now have historical context for it right and you know you look back and you're like yeah there were 10 people in the same room who were influential. But like someone rode a horse into a party.

Like is that a good party? Yeah, yeah. Sounds slightly obnoxious. I'm picking there. I'm going to the Studio 54 parties and I'm seeing if they sucked. Love it. Well, I look forward to you reporting back. And my vehicle's the horse.

Yeah, great. You're on the horse. That's great. I'm competing horse. That's what it turns out. Yeah. That person was a time traveler. I come great. I'm competing horse. That's what it turns out is that that person was a time traveler. I come back.

I'm like, this party sucks. I walk my horse straight back out. Oh, my God, on the horse I ridden on. Aw. I, yeah, I don't know if my, after reading a bit more about Ford, it's kind of ruined my dream car for me a little bit. Which was? Which was.

A Ford. My family car when I was a kid. It was an old, already an old Ford Falcon. I think I can still come all right with getting one. I mean, he's long dead. Fuck him. He can't ruin that car. He was already dead when it was made. It's a 1978 Falcon.

So if I can turn that into a time machine, that would be pretty cool. What about you, Dave? Also, I'm sort of apt for this episode. Where are you going? Well, do I have to pick a – I think maybe the 60s. I'd just love to see, you know, the Kinks and the Beatles and Chuck Berry still, you know, had a few hits in the 60s. It would be cool to see some of those bands, I think. Yeah.

See if they sucked. Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, the Beatles concerts seem like they'd be nightmares. Oh, they really sound bad. Shut up. I can't hear Paul. They sound like they played well, but they could hardly hear each other and the crowd couldn't hear the music and it wasn't.

Maybe it would be better to go one of their later ones when they did it, just to feel those pop-up things. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know. I don't think John Lennon was a particularly good guy either. Oh, what if he just went and solved a historical mystery? Oh, that'd be fun. Because no one in the future would believe you

because there's no way you could bring proof back and not ruin the world. Yeah. You'd just have to witness it and bear that knowledge. Like, oh, that'd be cool. I'd get on the flight and book a ticket next to D.B. Cooper. Like, oh, that'd be cool. I'd get on the flight and book a ticket next to D.B. Cooper. You still wouldn't know if he survived, though.

Wouldn't know if he survived, but I'd know who he was for sure. I know they think they've figured it out, but you could prove it definitively by... Oh, you come forward and then look at the photographs of the people they accuse. That's a good one. Yeah, something like that would be really interesting. I think that I would go back to ancient Rome and ride around on a

hot red Vespa. Vroom, vroom. Just spook them. This is your future. You're going to be famous for this. Just throwing out slices of pizza to people. Yeah. Who is this Vespa riding god? And it turns out that it's like a Back to the Future

moment where Marv and Barry sort of, where we And it turns out that it's like a Back to the Future moment where Marv and Barry sort of, where we shoot it and all and a guy picks up the pizza and goes, interesting. Mamma mia. That's fun. Yeah, that's great. So your

time travel vehicle's the Vespa? Yeah. Man, I'd just love to go everywhere. I'd just be curious to see all the, you know, I'd be Bill and Tedding it where they just go to all these classic moments through history. I'd be sick. Time travel just feels like a real fun thing. I'm into it.

But, yeah, I'm assuming we're not being able to affect anything. Otherwise, I'd feel a real duty to be going back and fixing all these fuck things that happen. Yeah, I'm imagining we're observing only. Yeah. We're there. People sort of forget we're there. Yeah, I'm imagining we're observing only. Yeah. We're there. People sort of forget we're there. Otherwise, I'm becoming Henry Ford.

I'm going, I'm going to go fix this forgotten time in history. I'm going to go there and make it better. Thank you, Nathan, Drew, David and Paul. If you want to get involved in the Fat Quota question section, like I say, sign up to the Sydney Scheinberg level. A couple of other things we like to do. One of them is thank a bunch of our supporters. And Jess normally comes up with a game, Cass.

Last week you came up with a bit of a game, which was what mode of transport people would take around Le Mans. What are you going to do this week? What rule are you enforcing for your utopia? Yeah. Does it have to be a bonkers rule? Oh, are you saying any of Henry Ford's were not bonkers rules? Yes, it has to be a bonkers rule.

Good point. All right, well, if I may kick us off, I'd love to thank from Dublin in Ireland, Aidan Coghlan from Dublin, who, of course, famously enforces the rule that you've got to use every cup of coffee has to have two sugars. Don't care if you like it sweet or not. We like to put a little.

I like to add a little sweetness at the start of my day. Oh, you don't like caffeine? Well, bad luck because you're starting your day with a coffee and two sugars. That's what I do and that's how I made my fortune, I assume. Really, it's that little kick of not only caffeine to get your brain and your metabolism going, it's the sugar to give you a little burst of energy at the same time. Two different energy streams.

That's what you need. Yeah. And I know people say both of those will crash your energy later, but. Those people aren't running this company. Yeah. They don't have their utopia. They sound a little bit like experts to me. Ooh, don't like them. Stinky.

Thank you very much, Aidan Coughlin. I'd also love to thank from Majimba from Queensland, Australia, Luke Stanley. Ooh, caps backwards only. But it's sunny and the brim keeps the sun in my eyes. Yeah, well, people from our town are cool, okay?

You've got to protect your neck from the sun. That's right. That sounds like a leader who got a skin cancer on their neck and went, no, no, no, that never happened again. And finally from me, another supporter from Dublin, Ireland, it's Ian McGuire. Cass, you haven't done one yet. What have you got?

Only sporks. Only sporks. Only sporks. Let's make it efficient. Yeah. They have one edge that is bladed. That is the only – everyone gets one spork. Yep.

It's better for the environment that way. You only ever have to wash one thing. That does make some sense. I don't know how bonkers that is. Hey, I'd join this cult. Yes. Dave, would you like to thank a few? Yes, I just want to say that that might have been Owen McGuire.

Owen. Just in case you're wondering if that was you. Sorry. Sorry, Owen. Owen, an apology indeed. See, that was worth it for that. Worth it for that, Owen. Worth it for that.

Sorry, Owen. Or Ian, just in case. As I tell you, Irish spellings fuck me up. Siobhan, I can say it because I'm not looking at it. But if I'm looking at it, I'm struggling to say it. We certainly use letters differently. It is different languages. Beautiful.

I would like to thank from Mernda in Victoria, Julian Barnes. What about food comes from vending machines only. Okay. Yep. If you can't get it from a machine, you can't get it at all. You cannot have it. Absolutely. Yes, as long as it's from a machine.

From a machine. That's right. It comes out strand by strand. You get your tokens. Yes. And you get to spend them. Whatever you, you can have whatever you want. As long as it's in a vending machine.

One piece of spaghetti. That's the same as, you know, like a sausage roll. I don't make the rules. Well, I mean, yeah, I do make the rules. But that's the rule. Julian Barnes says, bon appetit. And now from someone who comes from an unknown location, can only imagine deep within the fortress of the moles,

big shout out to Benji Pierce. Benji Pierce. Wow, all the beds have to be made to Benji Pierce. Benji Pierce. Wow. All the beds have to be made of straw. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. It's straw with a woolen overlay.

I grew up. Congratulations. In a barn. And I turned out great. Yeah. So. Everyone else now sleeps on straw. And that was the defining feature of my life.

I assume that was the thing. Everything else I did was the same as my brother, and he turned out shit. So I assume it was the hay that made me what I am. Yeah, you've got to look at back support. It's firm, but it's still soft. You know, it's softer than sleeping on the ground, which I did have to do sometimes. So I'm actually giving you a life of luxury. which I did have to do sometimes.

So I'm actually giving you a life of luxury. I also know that Farlap, the thoroughbred horse, used to sleep in and on hay. And look how well he did. That was the greatest horse ever. So, you know, say no more. So, Benji Pierce, thank you for a horrible night's sleep. And I would like to thank from Fern Tree Gully in Victoria,

Kerry Toomey. Kerry Toomey. Kerry Toomey. What was Kerry's thing again, Cass? You know Kerry's work, I think. Every fruit has to be peeled. Everything that comes out of the ground or on a tree, you have to peel it because the outside's dirty. So I'm talking grapes.

I'm talking apples. I am talking potatoes. Strawberries. Carrots. Yes I'm talking grapes. I'm talking apples. I am talking potatoes. Strawberries? Carrots? Yes. Every single thing. I thought skin often held a lot of the nutrients. Is that a myth?

That's why you would be wrong. We do take all of the skin off because it's like you're not even listening. Have you ever peeled a bit of potato skin then just eaten the skin? Yeah. That tastes bad. No good. Food, good. Have you ever peeled a carrot just eating the carrot skin?

Yes. Not as great as the rest of the carrot. Well, I kind of like it, but. I think we're going to have to execute this, man. I've never seen Cass look at anyone with those eyes. Disdain. Fair enough. You've sold me.

Let's get rid of the carrot. And I think Carrie's right. And I, for one, welcome our new skinless overlord. Cass, would you like to thank a few of our great supporters? Okay, I'll have a go. From Beverly Park, New South Wales, it's Don's Ronald Verrugies. Verrugese? That is a great name. Oh, Verrugese. Verrugese? That is a great name. Oh, Verrugese.

Love that. What about Don's rule is the color pink is called yellow and the color yellow is called pink. Yeah. He just thinks that pink looks yellow and yellow looks pink. Pink doesn't have a pink vibe. It's got a yellow vibe. It looks yellow.

Yeah, if you think of the feelings you get when you see pink, it is yellow. Yeah. You've got to name it appropriately. I'm so sorry, Dons. I think that's a good rule. Verrugis? Yeah, they're just fantastic.

So sorry. Okay, next up from Westlake, South Australia, it's Sean. Oh, Sean. A bit like Prince or Adele. No one knows their surname. Yeah, I think when your name's as unique and beautiful as Sean, why bother with the surname? Yeah, no one gets one actually.

And that's what Sean says, yeah. No one gets a surname anymore. Everyone's called Sean. We're all Sean. And finally, all the way from Sydney, New South Wales, it's Nicola. Ah, Nicola, another uno namo. Uno namo. Nicola and Sean live in a similar town.

Yes. But what's Nicola's rule? Nicola's rule is we no longer walk. It slides everywhere. If you want to get around town, you've got to take a slide. So, yes, we are building a lot of slides. Absolutely. It is not good for you to become unconnected to the ground

for that long a period as to when you are walking or running. And that is the reason, you know, the slides are connected to the ground by more of a surface area. And if you do need to get from A to B and it is more of a horizontal plane rather than a vertical, it's walking Olympics rules. One, you have to have contact with the ground at all times. And if you're not sure about it, crawl.

Yeah. Even dirt crawl. Because we Give and don't crawl. Because we will have those people out there who are ready to show you a yellow or red card, which I think is how they do it. Famously do an Australian walker in one of the Olympics. Oh, yeah. It was so close to the end. You mean a pink or a red card?

Pink or red, sorry. Yes. Come on, Sean. Sorry. Sean. No, Sean. Yes. Come on, Sean. Sorry. Sean. Is that what, no, Sean's work was the mono name. Yeah, come on, Sean. Oh, sorry, I am Sean.

You are Sean now. Sorry, I am Sean now. Look how embarrassed, you're turning yellow. And it was all yellow. And Sean, so he, I don't know if Sean's thought it through because wouldn't that get confusing if you're like, hey, Sean, and everyone's like, yeah. I think so instead, I think he's going to have to number everyone that get confusing if you're like, hey, Sean, and everyone's like, yeah. I think so instead.

I think he's going to have to number everyone. Sean one, Sean two, Sean three, Sean four. Maybe it'll become tonal. So it'll be Sean, Sean, Sean, Sean. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Sean. Sean.

Yes? Oh, that's great. That's everyone on planet Earth. So, well, that's everyone in our utopia at least anyway. Thank you. Which is now our planet Earth. Thank you so much, Nicola, Sean, Dons, Kerry, Benji, Julian, Owen, Luke and Aidan. The last thing we need to do is thank a few of our Triptych Club members.

These are new inductees into our Triptych Club, which you get exclusive access. It's a one-way ticket. You can't leave. But you can certainly enter when you are supporting us on the shout-out level or above for three straight years. This week, Dave, there's five inductees. I'm standing on the door.

I've got the velvet rope. I'm going to lift it up. I've got the guest list. I'll read out the names. Dave will then hype you up. He's standing there with all the other people who have been welcomed into the Triptych Club. They're all going to welcome you with open arms and a really great vibe.

Cass is behind the bar. Cass, you've come up. What's your Fordlandia cocktail? Okay. So it is served in a rubber cup. Yeah. Number one. It is.

Which had to be sourced from Southeast Asia, unfortunately, because. Yeah, it's a synthetic rubber cup. Yeah, that's right. So you get the nice hand feel and mouth feel when you put it to your lips. It is river washed whiskey. So it's mixed in. The barrels are washed with river, but also a bit of puddle. So you get malaria puddles in there.

Okay. So you get a cacophony of waters. If you're a water sommelier, you're going to be able to pick out a lot of notes in here. It is made daiquiri style. We blend up ice. Love a daiquiri. River water whiskey.

The seeds. Yes. Oh, the seed king. The seed king seeds. And what else are we putting in there? I'm so sorry. Gant beaches. Oh, King seeds. And what else are we putting in there? I'm so sorry. Canned peaches. Oh, of course.

There we go. Are they opened or is it just the can? We'll open them. We'll open them. We'll open and pee all the peaches. Yes, of course. Thank you. Give them a big blend.

And that is. That sounds. Do we name the cocktails? I think we just call it the Fordlandia. Oh, the Fordlandia. That's beautiful. Two Fordlandias, thanks. And Fordlandia. That's beautiful. Two Fordlandia sinks. And Dave, you've normally booked a band?

Yes, but there was a bit of an error with the booking. I thought I was booking Henry Ford, but I've accidentally booked the singer Clinton Ford, an English popular singer of the 1950s and 60s who sang skiffle music. Oh, skiffle. Early, yeah, skiffle music. Oh, skiffle. Early, yeah, skiffle bands. I think that was English trying to do blues maybe or their take on it maybe.

Yes, I think that developed into the Quarryman Beatles style. Clinton Ford, guys. Clinton Ford. Clinton Ford. All right, Dave, you ready to hype up these new inductees? Hell yeah. All right. Cass, I'm going to need you to hype me up these new inductees? Hell yeah. Cass, I'm going to need you to hype me up though. I am vulnerable. So we've got five.

And first up from Sheffield in England, it's Chris Gray. Ooh, Chris Gray is risque. Oh, saved it. There was a wobble, but you saved it. And I think coming back from your challenges is something that Henry Ford could never do. You're better than the leader of a utopia. And from York

in England, it's Peter Atkin. Peter, great to meet you. Oh, that's nice. I like that one. That was really good. You did really well on that one. From Raby in New South Wales, Australia, it's Zach Zielinski. Raby more like baby. Zach Zielinski, come on down, baby.

All right. Yeah, okay. Okay, in this instance, I am looking to Zach. Is he okay with being called baby? Zach attack is the opposite. Oh, there we go. From the stock. I love the honesty of the feedback.

I'll glance to Zach and if he's chill, I'm going to be like, yeah, you read the room properly. Come on, I'm getting good smiles. Good smiles. From Stockport in Great Britain, it's Ellie Durkin. More like hell yeah, Durkin. Oh, yeah, that's fun. That's fun.

She looks happy. Yeah, thank you.. That's fun. She looks happy. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. And finally from Como in Western Australia, it's Jamie Griffiths. Oh, Kokomo. Jamie Griffiths, come on down. And then the Beach Boys' Kokomo starts playing. Oh, all right.

No, I get it now. I get it now. It is so like Jess blindly praises everything you do. It's so good to have Cass here who is also baffled by most of the things you say. I mean, Jamie Griffiths, what are you doing with that? I don't know. Jamie Griffiths.

See? I've got a ball. Perhaps you'd like to bounce it. Jamie Griffiths. Hey, Griffiths, your love, because I'm giving it back to you. Jamie. Alright, now you're on, it is hard. Thank you so much to Jamie, Ellie, Zach, Peter and Chris.

Welcome in, make yourselves at home. Grab yourself a booth. Grab yourself a Fordlandia. Enjoy. And enjoy the music of Mr. Ford. Mr. Ford. Not the Mr. Ford, sadly. But on the posters it does say Mr. Ford. Well, that brings us to the end of the episode. Another fine

time. Cass, you did it. You have taken home the jackpot. You've won it. Well done. Yes. Double my joy, double the learning. Congratulations and I believe we can read out next week's challenger is a young whippersnapper by the name of Jess Perkins. Yes. We'll be back.

I've heard good things. I've heard good things. Excited to see if she can get anywhere near your success on this very difficult show. Cass, where can people find you? Online. If you go to sanspantsradio.com, all of the

wonderful podcasts on the Sans Pants Network are on there. I'm on Why Am I Sad, D&D is for Nerds, and Shut Up a Second. If you like laughing, have a go at those. People don't listen to the show for that, so you might not find your audience

here. A lot of people have just come here to learn. I promise you will learn nothing from anything I do. You can find us online at DoGoOnPod on, you know, the Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.

Yes. Our email address is DoGoOnPod at gmail.com. Our website is DoGoOnPod.com. And, yeah, find us in those places. I think all those links are in the show notes. Yeah, check them out. Click away. Go click mad in there.

Click wild. Click, click. Let's bring this baby home. Hey, we'll be. Click away. Go click mad in there. Click wild. Click, click. That is British Baby Home. Hey, we'll be back next week with another episode. Thanks again, Cass, for joining us the last couple of weeks. We really appreciate you. You are an absolute legend. Thank you so much and until next week, I'll say thank you and goodbye! Bye! We can wait for clean water solutions.

Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future.