Do Go On - 364 - The Tylenol Murders

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

This weeks episode was recording on the 40th anniversary of a crime that shocked a nation - the Chicago Tylenol murders!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 6:00 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report). Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodLive show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/  Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/ Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader Thomas REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.chicagotribune.com/investigations/ct-tylenol-murders-unsealed-first-24-hours-20220922-2mts4uwyzjgard6cawicu2myvm-htmlstory.htmlhttps://www.chicagotribune.com/tylenolmurders/ct-tylenol-murders-unsealed-investigation--20220922-mcnxdqfs2zhhvdwm3p452i64cy-htmlstory.htmlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5GJlN1F6xQ&t=323shttps://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/09/us/tylenol-murders-cnnphotos/https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/cold-cases/chicago-tylenol-murders/https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/tylenol-murders-1982 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Just jumping in really quickly at the start of today's episode to tell you about some upcoming opportunities to see us live in the flesh. And you can see us live at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival 2024. We are doing three live podcasts on Sundays at 3.30 at Basement Comedy Club, April 7, 14 and 21. You can get tickets at dogo1pod.com. Matt, you're also doing some shows around the country. That's right. I'm doing shows with Saren Jayamana, who's been on the show before. We're going to be in Perth in January, Adelaide in February, Melbourne through the festival in April, and then Brisbane after that. I'm also doing Who Knew It's in Perth and Adelaide. Details for all that stuff at mattstuartcomedy.com.

It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy respons essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On.

My name is David Warnocki and as always I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hello David. How good is it to be alive and How good is it to be alive? And how good is it to be block? Oh, yeah. It's block right now, Dave. Did you forget? That's the only time I feel alive is during block.

Really? Yes. That's so sad. Yeah, well, I mean, honestly, it's good to have something to look forward to. What's going on, bud? How are you? Are you all right? Yeah, it's block.

I'm good. Okay. But like the rest of the time, what's... Well, the rest of the time it's not block, so I'm not good. You would have... It's pretty easy. Yeah, true. You would have been more stoked than anyone that block got extended to two months.

That's right. And for the people who are wondering what the hell we're talking about, Matt, what is block? Block is the most wonderful time of the year. Agreed. Where we go through our most requested and most voted for topics of the year. We're counting them down this time around, and it's all based on Gregorian calendar stuff. How many Wednesdays in October, November?

This time around, there's nine. So we're counting down the top nine topics for Block 2022. It's huge. Nine bothers me, but that's okay. Sorry. Well, take it up with Gregory Gregorian. I will. Gregory Gregorian. Gregory's huge. Yeah, but nine bothers me, but that's okay. Sorry. Well, take it up with Gregory Gorian. I will. Gregory Gagorian.

Gregory Gagorian. I've got some opinions. Well, the good news is, Jessica, you've got a round number for your report, kind of. It's number eight. It's almost the most round number. Exactly. It's two rounds. It's probably the second roundest.

Two round, two furious. Call it the snowman number in some circles. Another round thing, circles. Two snowmen, 88. Yeah, there you go. I love the idea that people who are interested in this topic have looked it up, have started this podcast and thought, wow, they're insufferable, which is what I did in researching this topic.

Found some podcasts and went, oh, boy. I wasn't quite following that, but you're saying that we're insufferable. Yes. Took me a while to connect those dots because I'm like, those two things don't make sense. No, no, no, but stick with us. It's going to be a lot of fun. Isn't that funny how new people on a new podcast, you, insufferable.

When you get used to them, they're like old mates who are insufferable. But you put up with it. It's beautiful, isn't it? Push through the pain. You get to know them. You think, oh, this is just how they are. Yeah, it's not their fault. That's okay.

That's all right. That's fine. Yeah, and for anybody who's just joining us for the first time, we usually start with a question. That's right. Are you two ready for a question? Well, I mean, do we need to explain the show any further? If one of the three of us goes away and researches a topic usually suggested by a listener, during block it's been suggested by a lot of listeners.

And yeah, bring the research back and then tell it to the other two. Kind of like a school report, an oral presentation. That might be the best that you've ever done explaining it really well saved it for block yeah uh and then we normally get on to the topic the report giver gets on a topic with a question this week jess is doing the report that's right what is your question jess my question is which over-the-counter medication was the center of a nationwide panic in the U.S. in the early 1980s. I think panic's a clue there.

Panadol. Panicdol. Panicdol. Well, I guess it's kind of true. It was Tylenol, which is paracetamol. Which rhymes with? Which is Panadol. Right.

So American Panadol is Tylenol. Well, Tylenol's just a brand name. Panadol's just a brand. It's just paracetamol. Paracetenol. Well, Tylenol's just a brand name. Panadol's just a brand. It's just paracetamol. Paracetamol. It's one of those words that the more you say it, it starts to sound a little ridiculous.

The more you say it, the more it rolls off your tongue. Paracetamol. There's another one. The first time you say it, you're like, yeah, paracetamol. Obviously, that's a normal word. But then you start to say paracetamol.

You know another name for paracetamol is acetaminophen. Is that somehow more ridiculous? Yeah, acetaminophen. Is that somehow more ridiculous? Yeah, acetaminophen. Both of them sound like a grade two learning what syllables are. Yeah. Paracetamol. Acetaminophen.

I love clapping syllables. So fun. Yes. And then they stopped doing that when you get to high school. It's like, oh, okay. I'm just going to do it in my head now. Yeah. Clapping along. Pretty disrespectful. We don't get to clap the syllables anymore okay

we don't get to clap the syllables anymore i don't know how to do it you clap the cell that's what a high school education gets you nothing some people brought it back on twitter though with those emojis clap backs yeah thatbacks. Yeah, that's true. That's very true. I assume that's what they're doing. They're counting their syllables. So yeah, the Tylenol, well, I'll just start that again. Okay. Right from the top. Dave. Hi, everyone.

Our topic today, and the number eight most suggested topic, or the voted on topic for for block is the Tylenol murders ooh really I've heard of the Tylenol murders but I always assumed

Tylenol meant something like it was like a full on drug but it's just a pretty paracetamol I had no idea it's an over the counter pain med

oh jeez yeah pretty gentle just use it for and they're murdering people with it you just use it for a And they're murdering people with it. You just use it for a little headache. Sounds like you should get a prescription if you're going to murder someone.

That's a great point. Just saying. This has been suggested by a few people. It's been suggested by Jen Wood, Abby Wyszynski, Damon, Lewis Angle, Alex Bacci, Lauren, and Nicola St. John. Oh, fantastic name. How good's that name? They're all good, but St. John. Oh, fantastic name. How good's that name? They're all good, but St. John is a fantastic surname. So let me tell you about it, shall I?

Please. Wednesday, the 29th of September, 1982. Where were you? This just sounds like a... Take me back, where were you? An interrogation really quickly. Because I've got video evidence that says... Take me back, where were you? An interrogation really quickly Because I've got video evidence that says Interestingly enough

I think you might have been in Chicago Imagine eventually we'd get suggested a topic That implicates one of us in a really big crime But the other two don't know So somebody's just doing a report And one of us is just sweating Matt, you haven't said anything for about 25 minutes. The only suspect was a tall, red-headed man with a beard.

Thank God it's not me. A St Kilda Football Club cap. Yeah, that could be anyone. In the Brunswick area. Matt just starts talking about how hot they sound. Wow, it sounds really attractive. I'd fuck that murderer. They sound cool, but also sound innocent to me.

1982. Wow, you know, I was already decades and centuries old. That's right, yeah. You should put the decades first,

interesting. That's how we used to do it. That's sort of American style. You know how they do dates wrong? It's like that. I assume they also do decades but four centuries. Yeah,

four score and 20. I'm two and 30 years old right now. So 1982, 29th of September, 12-year-old Mary Kellerman woke up early around quarter past six and noticed she had a head cold and a sore throat. Her parents agreed to let her stay home from school and get some rest. And luckily, Mary's mother had just bought a new bottle of Tylenol at the supermarket the day before.

So yeah, paracetamol or acetaminophen. I had to write that out. Acetaminophen? Acetaminophen, phonetically. It sounds almost like Peter Serafinowicz, the English actor. It does sound a lot. But is it like two people, Johnny Paracetamol and Christina Acetaminophen,

and they were both competing to name it after themselves? Sure. Yeah, two family empires. It's amazing you even got their first names right. It's crazy. But unfortunately, the paracetamol acetaminophen race was not voted on by the Patreons, so we'll have to tell that story another time.

Next block. It's exciting. So Mary went to the bathroom, took an extra strength Tylenol to help ease her pain. Within minutes, her father heard coughing and then a thud come from the bathroom. He rushed in to find Mary unresponsive. Oh, shit. Paramedics were called and they rushed Mary to Alexian Brothers Medical Centre in Elk Grove Village, where she was sadly pronounced dead at 9.56am.

Oh my god, so without jumping ahead too far, something's wrong with this paracetamol. Holy shit, Matt, you put that together real quick. Yeah, but there's nothing wrong with acetaminophen. That's correct. This episode's sponsored by the acetaminophen family empire. Peter acetaminophen. What a guy. The tick, is that who he is?

Yeah, the tick. Also, had a great cameo on Black Books. Oh, yeah? It was the guy who read The Shipping Forecast. Oh, him! And then Fran's, his voice turns on Fran. Fran. Fran.

Yeah. Fran is such a you. He had a great... I did not get that the first time watching it. And watching it as an adult, I was like, oh, I understand what's happening. I think he had a like an a bit of a viral video years and years ago where you know those videos where someone does like a hundred impressions in a minute he did one but all the all the people who's impersonating were

just made up people that's very funny that is. Back to a child dying. Oh, yes. We were trying to bring a bit of light somewhere, you know? Oh, yeah. By the way, there will be no light in this. Oh, okay. So find the fun where you can. Every five minutes, we'll talk about our favourite Peter Serenafowitz moment.

Those science videos he did. Very funny. Very fun. So, yeah, Mary Kellerman, her sudden and tragic passing raised a lot of questions. How does a seemingly healthy 12-year-old suddenly drop dead? What had caused Mary's death? The biggest shock would come later,

as Mary's death was the beginning of a chaotic and deadly 24 hours in the Chicago area that saw six more people's lives end suddenly and also without explanation this is sounding a bit like maybe a much more deadly version of the needles and the strawberries thing in australia a few years ago so it's a it's a pretty um what do you call it like a just a very i can't think of a word. Is it pita serenata? An inoffensive sort of product. It's like a...

Innocuous. Innocuous product. Thank you. And someone's tampered with it by the sounds of it. Only with the needles and the strawberries, that just made people stop eating strawberries. Yeah. But I imagine this probably didn't do a lot of good

for the paracetamol industry. That's right. And that's why we don't have paracetamol anymore. So my first suspect is Peter Cinnamonowens. Okay. Or whatever the person was. No, you got it right. Cinnamonowens.

Yeah. That was a dark time when we couldn't eat strawberries. Wasn't it? So for context, if you're overseas and you don't know this, for a while there, there was, I don't know, it was only a few times though, wasn't it? I think so, i think so needles were turning up in strawberries in australian supermarkets yeah i don't know if anyone actually got injured from it but then that you were encouraged either to not eat strawberries or to chop them up before you eat them first yeah and i think something

uh similar happened in the u.s with like razor blades in hot dogs at a baseball field or something that sounds so awful right yeah Right, yeah, yeah. But it was, yeah. So it's happened before. Obviously, though, when it's one person selling the hot dogs, it's probably more obvious. He's also selling razor blades. He's put the razor blades in there. And it's actually just been a bit of a whoopsie.

It's a giveaway, okay? Okay. Free razor blade. Now you're complaining, okay? Yeah, it was weird that Gary Gillette's hot dog stand didn't, yeah, got away with it somehow. He was also putting shaving gel on the hot dogs and that was not good. Instead of mustard. You shouldn't eat that, yeah.

Or shaving cream instead of sauce, it was shaving gel. Pretty bad. The sort of stuff it comes out like, it's like a blue kind of gel stuff and then it kind of foams. Yeah, it looks like it tastes good, but it doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't. Not on a hot dog. Agree to disagree.

Maybe on a cracker or something. Yeah, it's not a good match. Not far from Elk Grove Village in Arlington Heights, 27-year-old Adam Janis, or Janis, had the day off from his job as a post office supervisor. He had had some slight chest pain the day before, but was feeling fine that day and spent the morning running some errands. He picked up his four-year-old daughter, Cassia, up from preschool

and stopped by the supermarket for a few bits and pieces, some steaks, flowers for his wife, and some extra-strength Tylenol. Once home, his wife, Teresa, saw him come out of the bathroom, clutching his chest and complaining of pain. She followed him into the bedroom and noticed his breathing was slow and his pupils were dilated. Through the window she could see two neighbours talking and she knew one of them was a nurse.

She ran out for help and the nurse tried to resuscitate Adam while the other neighbour called an ambulance. Pretty rude to interrupt a conversation. Yeah, like, sorry, Teresa. We're chatting. Sorry, this is important. We're working out our week. A little detail there is actually, it's quite lucky that it was these two neighbours she saw

because Teresa didn't speak a lot of English. She was Polish and she knew that the nurse spoke Polish as well. Okay, that is very fortunate. It's very fortunate that she happened to see a person who A, could help medically and B, could understand, she could communicate with. So at Northwest Community Hospital in Arlington Heights, less than 10 miles from where Mary Kellerman was, Adam Yannis was pronounced dead at 3.15pm.

Oh, shit. So when you said lucky, you really got our hopes up there. I was really hoping he was going to pull through, yeah. Uh, no. Given the fact that he'd complained of chest pains, doctors initially thought it must have been a heart attack. Dr Thomas Kim, medical director of the ICU, said there was nothing obvious like a gunshot

wound or anything. In Yanis' case, we thought of the heart first. So the diagnosis for him was either a massive heart attack or a massive injury to the brain. We had to wait until the tests came back. Now, Dr Kim comes up a little bit throughout this, so keep him in the back of your mind. Alright. First suspect.

By this time, more of the Yanis family had arrived at the hospital. Like I said, Adam's wife, Teresa, didn't speak a lot of English, so Adam's family were there to talk to doctors. The Yannis family left the hospital and went back to Adam and Teresa's house together. The family included Adam's mother, brothers Joseph and Stanley, and Stanley's new wife, also named Teresa. They'd been married for

about three months having held their ceremony at the same church as stanley's two brothers and they'd just been on a honeymoon to hawaii hadn't even received their wedding photos back yet and now here they were planning a funeral for the same church they'd just gotten married in in one article i read it said that stanley was having back pain and wanted to just go back to his own home, but his mother insisted they all go back to Adam's house together. No, no, no. Other resources say... Back pain, no.

Other resources say that when they were all back at the house, Stanley had a bad headache, as did his wife, Terry, also Teresa. And several of the articles I read say it was a pretty common physical side effect of grief and shock is a headache so they went together to the bathroom in Adam's house and each took some extra strength Tylenol moments later Stanley emerged clutching his chest he collapsed his brother Joseph catching him on the way down and easing him onto the floor. Terry complained her chest hurt too. I found this amazing article from the Chicago Tribune.

It was only published a few days ago at the time of recording. It's by Stacey St. Clair and Christy Gotowski. And it's incredibly well written. It has a lot of detail and sort of forms the skeleton of this report. It also has two parts out and more coming in the weeks ahead. They're kind of doing this like series of articles about it for the 40th anniversary, I suppose, or 40 years since this happened. So there's a link in the show notes if you want to read the whole series. It's amazing.

So this is quoted from that article. The firefighters and paramedics at Arlington Heights Station 3 were making dinner when the call came in about a man down. When the dispatcher gave the address, they looked at one another in disbelief. The station's paramedics had just been there a few hours ago for a man down, and that man had died. Fire Lieutenant Chuck Kramer ordered an engine to follow the ambulance to the house. It was unusual for bigger vehicles to respond to a medical emergency, but two calls to the same address in less than six hours was alarming. As we were coming down the street, there were crowds of people, said Kramer,

who was in the trailing fire truck. As we pulled up in front, I started to go up to the house and I can hear screaming coming out of the house. Inside, paramedics were trying to revive Stanley as he lay on the floor. One of the medics looked at Kramer with fear in his eyes. This is the exact same thing that happened to the man this morning, he told his lieutenant, and we lost him. Terry grabbed Kramer's shoulder for support. Then she groaned and fell to the floor.

Kramer assumed she'd fainted, but when he turned her over, he knew it was something far more serious. Her breaths were shallow, her eyes were fixed and dilated. Geez. At this point, and maybe it's just because of COVID and stuff, but they must be thinking, is this a contagious thing? Absolutely. Wow. So now I've got six paramedics working on two people, Kramer said, and I'm looking at what's going on.

I said, guys, this isn't heart attacks. There's something wrong. So yeah, you're absolutely right. They're thinking something environmental. Oh, whoa. The paramedics loaded the couple into separate ambulances and headed to Northwest Community Hospital. Concerned that some kind of airborne contagion or other deadly environmental poison was in

the house, Kramer put the entire Yannis family in police cars and sent them to the hospital too. Handcuffed? Handcuffed. He radioed ahead to the hospital staff. You'd better find a place for us, he recalled telling them. I've got 14 people who need to be isolated. I tell you what, and this might be because I'm six and a half seasons

into the X-Files, but I'd send out Mulder and Scully at this point. Would you? Yeah. This would be the point where you'd be like, something's up here. Yeah, and Mulder would walk in and he'd guess it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

He'd just be like, it's actually not without precedent, Scully. And then he'd have a wild stab at some obscure thing. Yep. Sometimes paracetamols can be poison. It did happen with the Aztecs. And then It'll just happen to have guessed it purely

And then Scali will be like Come on Mulder, there's gotta be a more simple explanation I don't know Mulder And then they'll go through 40 minutes And he'll have been right Yeah, nearly every time Why does she waste resources and time then? It must be so annoying

Because what she's saying is logically right yeah she's a medical doctor yeah but he always but eventually as a medical doctor who believes in science you know there's you've done a lot of there's a lot of testing that's been done in molder yeah it's always right if you're if you think of every episode as a test on molder's ability it's pretty conclusive yeah But what they would do is they do a DNA test on the people that have collapsed. Scully would be like, I've never seen this genome before. Oh my God, let's take it to another lab.

They'd go, wow, I've never seen this before. The person who did that test would be murdered and then the test would disappear. And then the season would end and the X-Files would be shut down for the sixth season end in a row. I really wish you guys would stop spoiling episodes because that's exactly what happened. Oh my God.

I don't know, Mulder. As the ambulance raced towards the hospital, Dr. Kim was about to leave after a long shift, but a nurse stopped him to say that two people had collapsed at the Yanis house and were on their way. He assumed it was Adam's parents, overcome with grief. The nurse said, no, it's his brother. So then I said, well, maybe he fainted.

Can you recall? He's like quite keen to leave. Then she said, his wife also collapsed. So I threw my jacket off and told the ICU nurses I was staying. Oh, that's very, that's very theatrical. Throw the jacket off. Tell my wife I'm not coming home. Yeah, call my wife.

But it's also, it's funny that he was so open about just being like, yeah, I was really keen to get home. Yeah, he's like, okay, so some old people fainted. Do I have to stick around? Okay, so a young person fainted. Do I have to stick around? His wife fainted? Call my wife.

Call my wife and tell her not to faint tell my daughter i won't make it to a ballet recital that's right so cut to seat with reserved for dad dad dr kim and then little kim little dancing on the side of stage looking out the teacher going i don't know we've got to go go on. And then her mum sitting next to the empty chair just sort of apologetically shaking her head. Shrugging. It's like your dad is the head of ICU, okay? Things are going to happen.

You are very important to dad, but dad also has a really important job. And a lot of people's lives rely on dad. So do your little fucking dance and have some respect. The mum will be like, that's what I would say as a mum. Lil' Kim, i see you doing the recital but dad is at the office yeah and little kim would be like oh mom you do this joke every time it's not that funny and never come for it's funny the first time i got it and i was four okay i'm six now i'm a big girl i mean after the performance of pages

starts going off Everyone looks around Someone steps up They run out It's Fox Mulder Oh my god Watching his niece's recital But he's been called away

He's been called away It's an emergency And she's like God damn it Not again Fox come on Not another paranormal emergency And he's like

But I thought my sister Was abducted by aliens And yet here she is With a daughter In the ballet That's right Season 7 doesn't connect With the other seasons at all who was abducted by aliens. And yet here she is with a daughter in the ballet. That's right. Season seven doesn't connect with the other seasons at all.

They rewrite the whole show. It's very confusing. The only through line, Scully does not believe. That's right. I don't know how they work together, honestly. The last episode I watched was kind of strange. Do you remember? And there was a kind of spin-off series called Millennium or something. Oh, yeah. They tied up. they did a backdoor finale yeah because i've heard of backdoor

pilots where you know they'll like uh soul man the uh dan akroyd show did a backdoor pilot in home improvement it's just like hey i'm i'm the new priest neighbor dan akroyd and then all of a sudden there's a like they test it that's popular and then they'll fund a season but this one like they canceled the show but the maker of x-files also made that other show and he's like i guess he was like i still want to finish my show so he had the finale just wrote um molder and scully into it yeah and like it zoomed out from the finale and scully and moldulder are watching the TV. They're like, wow, what a fantastic TV show.

That's not true. Jess is looking like that too. That would be so good. I'm like, that doesn't make much sense. It still didn't make much sense, but that was worse than what happened. Anyway. Dr. Kim.

Dr. Kim. Taking his jacket off. We'll come back to the Yannis family later because in the meantime, in fact, around 30 minutes after Adam Yannis had died, it's around 3.45pm at this point, 27-year-old Mary Reiner was at her Winfield home around half an hour away from the areas of Illinois that Adam and Mary were in.

Reiner had a headache and had purchased some Tylenol at the supermarket that morning. Not extra strength, please. Three hours after Mary, Rainer had taken a deadly dose of Tylenol, another Mary, so we've got three Marys now, 31-year-old Mary McFarland from Lombard, 20 miles away, was working at the Illinois Bell telephone store

in the Yorktown shopping centre. She was in a mall. So around 6.45, she stepped into the break room to deal with a headache. In fact, the company had a jar of generic pain pills for their staff, but Mary had a bottle of Tylenol in her bag and she decided to take that instead. I'm not going to take that a headache. In fact, the company had a jar of generic pain pills for their staff, but Mary had a bottle of Tylenol in her bag and she decided to take that instead. I'm not going to take that generic shit.

I'm starting to wonder, is the killer targeting Mary's? And if so, yeah. Like, it's weird that it's the Tylenol. You've had three Mary's? Three Yanis's. You call it the Mary Tylenol murders. Mary Tylenol murders. Mary Tylenol. And you were worried you wouldn't find any fun in this.

And here we are, having a great time. So less than ten minutes later, she returned to the break room and a co-worker recalled her saying, I don't feel good, before collapsing. Paramedics arrived and Mary's co-worker told them that she'd taken Tylenol but nothing else. Mary McFarland was taken to hospital Man, is that five now? Well... And they haven't been able to connect any dots at this point.

That's right, yeah. So these, yeah, five people who have all had a similar experience Been born Mary Almost seriously On the same day You don't get born a Mary, someone, I think Assigns you Mary Or do you think that people just go, well, that's a Mary

Yeah, I think some people are born great and others have greatness thrust upon them Okay Same with Mary Okay, is Mary a great name, do you think? Yeah, one of the greats Mary Yeah, it's alright It's pretty good And what? Same with Mary. Okay. Is Mary a great name? Do you think? Yeah. One of the greats. Mary. Yeah, it's all right.

It's pretty good. I think it's a solid name. Yeah. It's up there. Yeah? Yeah. What are we talking? Top 20?

Yeah. Mary is in the top 20 for you. That's pretty good. Absolutely not. I'm saying like it's up there in terms of the number of Marys in my family. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. There's two of them. of the number of Marys in my family. Oh, okay, yeah. There's two of them. Yeah, I've got an Aunty Mary.

Yeah, I've got two Aunty Marys. Same side of the family. Right. Crazy. That's wild. Crazy. Michael's the one I've got a lot on both sides. We've got multiple Philips.

Really? Philips? I've got, on the same side of the family two cousins philip two cousins thomas it's like those siblings were like fuck it i don't even care that my one of my siblings has a philip i'm getting a philip yeah normally that's a bit of a faux pas not in the perkins clan and then oh you've already got a tom well fuck you i've got a tom as well same surnames as well no no well that's that's probably what got them over the line. And is it both families? Is it two Phillips and two Thomases?

Is it a Phillip and a Thomas and a Phillip and a Thomas? Are they two set siblings? Because that would be hilarious. It's like, oh, we've done it again. Well, one Phillip and one Thomas are twins. Okay. So they're in the same family. So that's one sibling who named her twins after nephews she already had. Two existing nephews.

Yeah. Is one of these the footballer Tom Phillips? Yeah. Whoa. Wow. Sometimes it's easier to just say yes. And then he goes, whoa, and then you can move on. Some obscure football.

If you say no, he'll come up with somebody else. Does Philip also mean like a positive for something? Oh, that's a real Philip for the industry or something? I've never heard that before. In Jess's family, yeah. That's not a thing. I'm not saying it's not a thing. I've just never heard it.

That's a real Philip. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm guessing it's a word like Philip, but it's not Philip. It sounds like a guy called Philip is really trying to rebrand. Yeah, that's a real Philip, wouldn't you say? I also just realized, just in my family's defense, that my grandfather's's not Philip. It sounds like a guy called Philip is really trying to rebrand. Yeah, that's a real Philip, wouldn't you say? I also just realised, just in my family's defence, that my grandfather's name was Philip. So I think maybe

a couple of siblings were just naming... Okay, so one of them was my uncle Phil who named his son Phil. So that's three generations of Phil. The other one, if they wanted to make a tribute, they could have called the kid Grandpa. Exactly! Grandpa and Tom. Philip's taken, Grandpa isn't. They could have called the kid Grandpa. Exactly. Grandpa and Tom. Exactly.

Philip's taken. Grandpa isn't. Tom's taken, but you know. Anyway, back to the Yanis family, who are at the hospital for a second time today. Can't believe it. Stanley and Terry Yanis were in a critical condition, and the rest of the family were being quarantined at a hospital meeting room. So they can't even be there with their dying family members.

No, because they're not sure if they've ingested something, if it's something airborne. And the police, firefighters and paramedics who had responded to the call were also in that meeting room with them. They were just keeping everybody contained until they could figure out what was going on. Wow. Fire Lieutenant Chuck Kramer was in the room

and he called his friend and public health official, Helen Jensen. She arrived at the hospital 15 minutes later and walked into the quarantine room. The people inside marveled at her courage. I thought she'd go and talk to the doctors but no she came directly into the room and I couldn't believe that Kramer said but that's just Helen she's brave she sees it as it doing a job but I really admired her and I initially thought it was a little bit funny to like call a person brave for walking into a room. But at this stage, they have no idea that there are other similar deaths occurring elsewhere.

And there's a very serious and valid concern that this is something airborne and very contagious. So it was pretty ballsy of her to just sort of walk in and be like, all right, what's going on? How can I help? What are we doing? Oh God, I've wandered into the wrong room. Oh no.

I can't leave. Okay, play it cool, play it cool. Hey, what's up? How are we doing? I wasn't just looking've wandered into the wrong room. Oh, no. I can't leave. Okay, play it cool. Play it cool. Hey, what's up? How are we doing? I wasn't just looking for the vending machine when I walked in here. Sometimes brave is one word for it, but if she's going to just drop dead, I don't know if that's brave or that's sort of reckless.

Yeah. I think often people say brave when they mean a bit reckless. Yeah. And that's cool. Yeah. I think cool is another word for it. they mean a bit reckless. Yeah. And that's cool. Yeah. I think cool is another word for it. I'm a pretty reckless person. Nothing cooler than being reckless.

Yeah. You'd say I'm a reckless person. I'm crazy. Yeah, yeah. Not at all a cautious person. Nah, I'm not. Honestly, I was talking about this the other day. On my driving test to get my license,

the guy's only feedback was that I was a little bit too cautious. And I was like, you don't say. During my test, I was a little cautious, was I? I've never given that feedback before. And that's when I went through a yellow light with him and he's a bit cautious. I'm like, in what fucking unit? Anyway.

I had a similar thing. He asked me to change lanes. And I was told before that sometimes i'll trick you they'll say change lanes when there's not really enough space so i was told be cautious so i'm like sorry i just i don't think i've got enough space and he got so angry he's like you had so much space i like i was yeah i thought it was a trick... No matter what instruction he gave you, you said, I won't be doing that. I'm not falling for that one.

Okay, turn the engine on. I won't be doing that. I was born yesterday. Take the next left. I'll actually be turning right. Thank you. Nice try. My instructor told me to do the opposite of whatever you say.

Your instructor is an idiot. Don't run that red light. Okay, I know what I'm doing. Jeez. That was good engine noise. Thank you so much. I i've been practicing i've been under your tutelage it's good it's a good stuff it's what cars sound like you guys ever heard a car i didn't think so i didn't think i had until i thought i had but now that sounded more like a car than a car ever has so we've got helen bravely walking into a room oh bravely is that what's the noise she made as she walked

um pulls up how we doing she's kidding helen's badass she opens the door Kramer style into a quarantine room. These people are freaking out. They've had the worst day of their life. She's bursting into the room. Well, there is a Kramer in the room, but he's a file attendant. There's someone named Kramer in the room? Yeah, I've mentioned him several times.

He comes up a lot. Keep Kramer in your mind. Is his name Dr. Kramer Kim? Yep. Okay. No. Okay. So Adam's wife, Teresa, walked Helen through Adam's mourning

and the family gathering that afternoon. That's M-O-R-N-I-N-G. His mourning. Mourning. Not his mourning. Well, he's... Adam's the one who died the other day. I'll walk you through his mourning and I'll walk you through our mourning.

In her retelling, Jensen noticed all three people who had gotten sick had taken Tylenol. Helen Jensen asked for two things. A key to the Yannis home and a police officer to take her there. She was on to it straight away. Straight away. She put it together so quick. Bang. And then was like, take me to this house that everybody thinks is poisonous.

So she goes. By 8 p.m. she's in the house gathering items that she thought all three people could have come in contact with. So, yeah, she was like, well, it's interesting they all took Tylenol. But she's also thinking, like, is there something, you know, just those sort of communal things. So she's taken, like, a pot of coffee, coffee grounds, cake flowers and of course tylenol yeah because what they said what's that saying something doesn't equal causation correlation correlation doesn't mean causation because they're like that would be someone who just goes oh it's obviously that yeah yeah and they could be wrong there could be many things so she's sort of like okay what are

the kind of things that they all might have had access to or might have ingested eaten whatever she's like molder and scully mush together she is but also can i just point out that's some of the what are the kind of things that they all might have had access to or might have ingested, eaten, whatever. She's like Mulder and Scully mushed together. She is. But also, can I just point out, that's some of the worst quarantining procedure I've ever heard of. Well, she just bails. She's walked in there and gone,

great, awesome, I've hung out with all of you. Now I'm going back out into the world. I'm going back to the house where you all just came from. I'll probably come back here. And I'm taking a cop with me. Yeah. The cop's like, do I have to come in? Can I wait in the car?

This is very Mulder technique as well. He's always fingering things on crime scenes. Oh, my. Like, Fox, stop touching the evidence. Well, it's so funny you say that because, I mean, this is the 80s and a lot of the police officers and stuff in hindsight talking about it now were like, we weren't wearing gloves. Right. So when they're trying to dust for prints and stuff, it's a bit of a nightmare.

Because everybody's just like, oh, here's the Tylenol bottle. Getting their hands all over it, throwing it to their friend. Licking it. Just like basketball style. How do you throw things to your friend? You tried to throw your keys to Matt before. It was a disaster, wasn't it? They have a competition just trying to throw them in the bin.

Oh! Three-point line. They're very respectful on a murder scene. So she found the bottle of Tylenol and also, conveniently, she found the receipt because they'd just bought it.

She's going to try and get a refund. This killed three people. I think we should get at least a partial refund. I want a replacement. I want to steal credit, please. So she checks inside the bottle and there's 44 capsules left it's a 50 um bottle oh these are the capsules that are you can pull apart that's right yeah yeah so it's like they're the gelatin capsules so that's like you know the panadol ones are green on one side and white on

the other i think these are red and white and yeah you can pull them apart right um tamper with them and put them back exactly right so right. So there's 44 left. So that added up. Three adults had taken two each, and the three of them had had the same awful experience afterwards. So she returned to the hospital where she found a representative from the Cook County Medical Examiner's Office in a conference room, and she placed the bottle down and said it had to be the Tylenol

that linked these three cases. Oh, that's got to be badass. But remember, this is the early 80s and she's just a nurse. So her advice was immediately met with scepticism. No! Straight away they're like Helen, is it? I don't know.

I was imagining she puts the bottle down and just goes, there's a killer right there. And everyone goes, and then the who plays. Helen! She puts her sunnies on walks out as the as the hospital explodes behind her that's a whole new thing another job well done several resources mentioned that she literally had to stomp her feet and yell in order to be heard and even then she was brushed off. Yeah, I can imagine people brushing you off

when you're stomping your feet and yelling. It's a Tylenol! Whoa, whoa, Helen. Helen, baby. We're trying to figure this out. Helen, come on. And this guy in the corner, Fox, he reckons it's a demon. We're going to go with him.

We're going to go with the demon guy. So yeah, she went home pretty frustrated and sort of being like i'm just a nurse and they're not going to listen to me but that's what i think it is i don't know i had a tantrum did you have a headache don't tell me she's fine she's okay goodness so around the same time at 8 45 p.m 35 year old united flight attendant paula prince landed at o'hare international airport in chicago one of her good friends and colleagues, Jean A Regular Leavengood, incredible name.

Sorry. What? Sorry. Jean A Regular Leavengood? Regular Leavengood. They've made that up on the spot. R-E-G-U-L-A, regular or regula? I'm Regular Leavengood.

I'm, yeah, regular doorframe uh handle this is my friend my friend chris extra strong tylenol capsule so i'm what i'm guessing is about to happen is someone's gonna die because they didn't listen to hel? No, this is all happening around the same time. So Helen was at the house at 8. This is 8.45. So it's all happening around the same time. So it would have been hard to get the word out for people to stop eating Tylenol.

So yeah, Paula Prince, she lands and her friend and colleague lives in the same condo building as Paula. And so she's like, oh, I'll check to see when she's arriving. We can go travel home together together she checks the flight board and she sees that jean isn't landing for another hour or so so she just left her a note to say she was heading home it says let's meet for a drink later prince wrote i have exciting news to tell you on the way home paula stopped at walgreens for a few things including you guessed it a bottle of extra strength tylenol while taking off her makeup she paused to take a single Tylenol capsule from the new bottle,

despite there already being an open bottle in her travel bag. No! Because she was at home alone, it wasn't until two days later that Levengood and Prince's sister would find her body. Shit. And this is from the Chicago Tribune article again. At Prince's funeral, a man approached Levengood and introduced himself.

He said he'd met Prince during a recent layover in Las Vegas and they'd fallen immediately madly in love. He said they planned to marry. He was Paula Prince's exciting news. Oh, it's so tragic. It's so tragic. This article points out so many small details that are so brutal. Like that just hurts and that Stanley wanted to go home,

but his mum's like, no, no, no, come back to Adam's place. And that Paula had another presumably safe bottle of Tylenol that she could have had. There's a lot of like sliding doors moments where if something had happened slightly differently, you know. If I think about those moments too much, I panic and then I can't do anything. Yeah, yeah.

It's scary. But maybe if you didn't panic then, you would have done something else that would have been the wrong call. Fuck. Fuck. Panicking may have just saved your life. Thank you.

You ever think about that? Yes. So Paula bought her Tylenol around 9.15pm. So we're not And so we're now at about 10pm The same day, 29th of September 1982 After hours in quarantine Firefighter Kramer heard from

Dr. Kim that Stanley Yannis had been pronounced Dead and Terry was on life support With no chance of recovery So this family's lost two sons And a daughter-in-law Is she's gonna die as well in the same day oh and they were all there yeah it happened too awful dr kim said he thought the deaths were most likely caused by something they'd ingested and was trying to find a poison expert to help him find out more careful not to rule out environmental factors doctors admitted the yannis

family for overnight observation. And this is another one of those little details that this article just really hits you. Like Joseph Yanis, the older brother, shared a room with his sister Sophia and the siblings passed a sleepless night, afraid they wouldn't wake up if they fell asleep. I was just looking at my sister and she was looking at me

to see if we were still alive, he said. I thought we were going to die too. Because I have no idea. You'd be grieving, you're terrified. Your siblings have just died, you have no idea why. And you're like, is there something in the house that's going to kill us as well? Terrifying. On the way back to the firehouse, Lieutenant Kramer notified dispatchers via radio that his station would be out of commission until further notice. He told, so the family had to quarantine in the hospital, but all of the first responders were told to go home,

but they had to like deep clean the trucks and, you know, like try to make sure just in case that it wasn't anything on them. So he's like, don't send us any jobs for a bit. We need, we're off, we're offline. Shortly after that, his phone rang. It was a friend of his and a fellow Arlington Heights fire lieutenant, Phil Capitelli. Capitelli asked what was up and what had happened that would cause an entire station to shut down

because he'd heard it on the radio. Kramer told him about the family and their mysterious illness. They didn't have anything in common, Kramer told his colleague, except that they'd each taken Tylenol. This information clicked with capitelli his mother-in-law worked with the 12 year old mary kellerman's mother and he had heard about her death earlier that day he told kramer about his inquiry into mary kellerman's sudden death and that she'd also taken tylenol moments before collapsing wow oh my god it just hits you k recalled. Someone is out there indiscriminately poisoning people. So they've put it together in the first, like, 12 hours.

Which is rare in these sorts of stories. You know, it's often, like, ages later, they're like, ah. But now they're, like, really quickly putting it together. But I guess there's that chance thing that he seemed to know both parties. Exactly. In this massive city with millions of people. It's Capitelli's day off and he's just listening into the radio anyway as he was known to do happens to hear the first one

and like you know his mother-in-law knows the the mother of the door you know it's capitelli a bit of a radio listener yeah known for it known for it um yeah crazy so kramer then called the elk grove village fire department and spoke with a paramedic who had treated mary kellerman through their conversation kramer learned that mary kellerman's symptoms were the same as the janice's so he called the hospital and confirmed what helen jensen had been trying to tell people there's something wrong with the tylenol now dr kim had treated cases of acetaminophen poisoning before, but this wasn't that. He consulted with several poisoning experts

and scoured his old medical school textbooks. He paced back and forth in his office, thinking and ruling out various causes. In the end, there was only one substance that he could think of that killed people so rapidly after being ingested. Cyanide. Oh, dear. His hospital couldn't test for cyanide at that time,

so he found a 24-hour lab in Highland Park. He put two vials of blood, one belonging to Stanley, the other to Terry, in a cab and gave the driver instructions on where to take them. He put them in a cab. Wow. Just sitting on the front seat next to him. Yeah, and the cab driver's like...

Meanwhile, an Elk Grove Village police officer Just sitting on the front seat next to him. Yeah, and the cab driver's like... Buckle up. Meanwhile, an Elk Grove Village police officer brought the Tylenol bottle from the Kellerman home to the hospital and gave it to Nicholas Pishos, an investigator with the Cook County Medical Examiner's Office. Pishos already had the bottle left by Helen Jensen. Both bottles had the same lot number. Like, same batch. Pishos called his boss, Dr. Edmund Donahue, Both bottles had the same lot number, like same batch.

Pishos called his boss, Dr. Edmund Donahue, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner for Cook County. Donahue, who was at home, told him to open one of the bottles and smell inside. Anyone know what smell we might be looking for? Is it almonds? It is almonds. I was going to guess cyanide. Which smells like?

Cyanide. Cyanide. I don't know what almond Probably both correct Technically Yeah, he's not wrong We're starting to think it's a nut allergy thing It's a nut allergy thing, yeah

But just almonds Just a high class nut This is how we discovered that people can be allergic to nuts Before that we had no idea Whoa We, as humans When Pichos poured out the capsules He caught a strong almond scent.

That's hard to resist. The second bottle produced the same bitter smell. Donoghue's suspicion was confirmed. He knew instantly the odour was cyanide, a notorious and rapid-acting poison that cuts off oxygen to red blood cells. The almond odour isn't always present, and even when it does exist, it's discernible by only about 60% of the population. Right. So imagine if Pishos had been part of the 40% that couldn't smell it anyway.

Oh, yeah. Then we wouldn't, you know, they'd still be, they'd have to be testing things. But he was like, oh, almond. And they're like, that's cyanide, baby. It's crazy. Again, it's one of those other, it's another time where it's like, what if he hadn't been able to smell it? What if, it's crazy. Again, it's one of those other, it's another time where it's like, what if he hadn't been able to smell it? What if? It's crazy.

Donoghue called Michael Schaefer, the county's chief toxologist, and asked him to come to the morgue and run tests on the confiscated Tylenol capsules. Tests would show that four of the 44 remaining capsules in the Yanis' bottle contained cyanide. Only four? Oh, so that new bottle she opened, it was even... It wasn't all cyanide. Oh, my God.

I guess, yeah, whoever did it, it would take forever to do it. So just put six on top of cyanide. So even the fact that they all happened in the same day is pretty wild, right? It could have just slowly happened over months and then it would have been a lot harder to put together if they were happening more slowly. Harder to link it to something. Tests would show that 44 contained cyanide.

Four of the 44, sorry. Records indicate each capsule had between 550 and 610 milligrams of the poison, nearly three times the amount needed to kill someone. So it's strong as well. Shit the early hours of september 30 a technician from the 24-hour lab in highland park called dr kim to tell him that her tests had found massive amounts of cyanide in stanley and terry's blood so it confirmed that it was cyanide poisoning and from the tylenol with so many of these stories it often takes ages for authorities to figure out that there's any link, like we were saying before. But already, some very savvy and dedicated medical professionals and first responders had pieced it together very quickly.

But now it was a case of getting the info out to more people. the first news related to the tylenol poisoning broke when a reporter for the city news bureau um a famed chicago news organization that operated 24 hours a day was oprah published a bulletin the bulletin based on a tip received by overnight editor rick bart didn't mention specifically tylenol um and the city News reporter John Flynn Rooney couldn't get anyone to confirm those details but they essentially they um that they got a tip I think I had it written somewhere they essentially had a tip that like a headache medication wink wink yeah yeah but they couldn't get them to confirm that it's Tylenol. But the editor, Rick Bart, recognized that this was potentially very dangerous to the public and he urged his reporter, Rooney, to keep digging.

Bart also called his best friend in the middle of the night because he knew that his friend took Tylenol for his knee each morning. And so he warned his friend, skip it. Don't take Tylenol tomorrow morning. All I could think was how many more people could be at risk if the news didn't get out by morning, Bart said. So shortly before sunrise, Rooney managed to nail down the story and at around 5.30am, City News reported

that the medical examiner's office was attributing three deaths to an unnamed headache remedy and a news conference would be held later that morning. And there's this detail in the Chicago Tribune article again. The story was immediately picked up by local radio stations, including the one Helen Jensen's husband listened to before work. When he heard the news, he woke up his wife. You were right, he told her.

It's on the radio. It's the Tylenol. So she was right. She was right. Unfortunately, she needed a couple more men to confirm it before anybody believed her. But still, at least it wasn't days, weeks, months Until she was finally proven right

It was like hours She got it really quick It's so funny that they gave her keys and a police officer But still didn't listen Still didn't listen to her I thought Well that was the fire lieutenant who gave her the Got some authority but yeah they didn't Yeah, her. I thought, oh, she's obviously got a bit of what? Well, that was the fire lieutenant who gave her the... Got some authority, but yeah, they didn't...

Yeah, jeez. The, you know, the county... What were they thinking? Oh, who knows? It sounds like she... Had put it all together. Put it together, she could spell it out. Yeah.

But they were like, I don't know. Did they call her sugar tits or anything? Probably, yeah. All right, sugar tits or anything? Probably, yeah. All right, sugar tits, we'll go from here. Okay, sweetheart. I'll have a black coffee on your way out, thanks. So the same morning the news broke, stores began pulling the pain reliever from their shelves

and public health departments went door to door with flyers warning people about potentially poisonous capsules. Police officers drove through streets using bullhorns to order people to throw out their Tylenol. So they acted very quickly. Two honks means throw out your Tylenol. We all know. Oh, no.

Yeah, the Tylenol. This effort proved to be life-saving as three other tainted Tylenol bottles were found this way and no other lives were lost after those first 24 hours. Wow, that is an amazing, well, you know, horrible start. Awful. But the systems in the end worked so well. Yeah.

But of course the question remained, how did this happen and who is responsible? The other question was, who's in charge of this investigation? The deaths had occurred in different areas of Illinois and different police departments were looking into the mysterious deaths. Illinois Attorney General Ty Fainer was notified of the deaths and although each county has its own state attorney to oversee the case and the Attorney General has no authority to intervene, Fainer was a well-liked leader

and the Illinois State Police wanted him to help. So he left at an event he was at immediately and made phone calls. His daughter's ballet recital. His daughter's ballet recital. Everyone's getting up from his recital. She's like, Dad! Yeah, everyone's at the same recital.

It's brutal. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Sorry, gotta go. I want to see this as a film, but it starts as just like some kids practicing for their ballet recital and then it finally gets to the big performance and everyone's dad leaves. And then it turns into a really gritty crime.

Yeah. Drama. That's what I want. Yeah. A lot of beepers. Can I play Helen Jensen? Oh yeah. You could be,

you'd be great. Helen Jensen. I'd be a great sugar tits. I can picture you stomping those feet. Yeah. Because I do that often. Listen. When you won't listen to me, I stomp my feet.

Listen to my report. I go, boys, listen. Stomp my little feet. It works every time. All right, Jess. I'll have a tea with two. Two what? Two what?

Two Tylenol? You want some cyanide in your tea? No problem. So yeah, he left this event, made some phone calls through the drive home. He had a car phone. Pretty sick. Oh, wow. I love their curly little antennas.

Do you remember those car phones that had a little pig style antenna at the back? I don't remember that. Yeah. That's fun. Adorable. It's like cars were pigs for a little while. Little piggies. Oink, oink. It's like cars were pigs for a little while. Little piggies. Oink, oink.

It's like cars were pigs. Yeah. It's the 80s. It was wild. Little piggy cars. By the time he'd reached his house in Evanston, he was the de facto leader of what had quickly become the country's highest profile case.

He ordered his staff to work through the night, calling local police, sheriff, coroners, the FBI, the FDA, prosecutors and public health officials. He also laid the foundation to get extra strength Tylenol off store shelves statewide, going beyond the single batch of the pain relievers manufacturer he'd recalled that day. So the manufacturer's like, okay, we'll find that batch.

Let's get rid of that. But he's like, get rid of that but he's like get rid of all fucking tylenol actually burn down every chemist yeah just to be safe tests were run and confirmed that mary kellerman and mary reiner had suffered the same fate as the yannis's cyanide poisoning so it was they're very quickly they're piecing together that uh the the yannis family it was the tylenol that had poisoned them and that it was Tylenol for the other people as well. So they have put it together quite quickly. Can I just, Joanne, if I ask Dave who he thinks,

who's your big suspect at the moment? Probably a disgruntled employee at Tylenol, something like that. Oh, you think so? I think it might be Rick Tylenol. Oh, okay. Trying to crash his own stock so he can buy low and then sell high. That's brave. Yeah, that is very brave.

Because I don't think this is good PR for Tylenol. Yeah. But he was a cowboy, Rick. So crazy, it just might work. Okay, Matt, any theories? Dave said Rick Tylenol. I'm wondering if it's maybe like a disgruntled employee on the factory floor or something.

I'm literally looking at the word disgruntled employee in front of me. In brackets, Rick Tylenol? No, Rick Tylenol is not mentioned. Fuck. Yet. We're going to crack the case. He's still at the ballet recital.

He hasn't left yet. The one person left. He doesn't have a pager. The White House ordered the FBI to be involved in the investigation amid growing public panic. FBI Special Agent Roy Lane Jr. was one of several investigators who gathered to brainstorm possible motives behind the crime. There was about 10, 15 different avenues of investigation to pursue,

like disgruntled employees, former employees, lawsuits, customers who had a problem, anybody that could make some money out of it. So there's a lot. I think I read. Money to be made. I didn't include it in the report, but I read that there was like a team of female agents that were set up to like answer the phone.

There was like a hotline set up for people to... They put the hot in hotline because they were women. People were... And how hot are women? How hot are women? Am I right, fellas? Matt's new catchphrase. How hot are women?

He is the feminist of the pod And you're always reaching for a high five You guys ever seen a hot woman? Like every woman I love them all How hot are women? I suppose you are supporting women kind of Kind of

I mean we're sort of reclaimed Yeah I guess so Anyway so So yeah there was this There was a hotline set up. There were people taking calls. They were getting thousands of tips. That's always a nightmare though, isn't it?

Because you get people being like, I saw Graham across the road last night and then I didn't see him till this morning. What was he doing? What was Graham doing? It was a lot. And then it was sort of, this article interviews one woman

whose job it was to sort of filter through all these tips and like discard ones that were obviously nonsense and keep the ones that like agents should actually look into. For example, Demon. Demon. They're like, yep, I'll be right there. I'm going to put that on the maybe pile and I'm going to hand this one off first.

He's nearly never wrong. Like 99% of the time he's spot on. But it would be a web series of like five minute episodes if people listen to him at the start, you know, because he calls it so quickly. That's true. So you got to be like, nah, and then he's right. All right, right again. Yeah. When will they learn?

And then he's right. All right, right again. Yeah. When will they learn? Among the earliest priorities was 24-hour surveillance outside the victims' homes on the assumption that someone who killed anonymously would want to see the results of their work and might drive by the house. Following the same theory, investigators took pictures

of everyone who attended the victims' funerals and set up time-lapse cameras at grave sites to see if they could capture anyone acting unusual agents interviewed the victims families neighbors co-workers and friends about any known enemies i mean one of them was a 12 year old girl so so the list was long any enemies each person underwent a rigorous background check relatives including two who took polygraph tests were quickly eliminated from suspicion so like like, okay, it's not any relatives. Not Auntie Jill.

Hopefully not based on the polygraphs, aren't they? They've been debunked as... Have they? Yeah, aren't they bullshit? Probably. Oh no. Trying to discredit them. Yeah, nah, these are bullshit anyway. That's Matt really determined not to take... It's going off the scale.

This whole time we wear them every week Just to keep us honest On this silly little podcast I think that's dumb I think it's a great idea So yeah, so it's funny that they're thinking enemies Because it feels like it was quite random Yeah, exactly

If it was just that one family Just that one bottle You'd be like, okay. This 12-year-old girl isn't related to the woman who's come to her apartment. And they're all spread out. It's all around the Chicago area. They're close-ish to each other, but it's quite widespread.

Investigators quickly dismissed the possibility that the killer was targeting a single victim, obviously, because there were seven victims. You do it to target one, and then to cover your tracks, you kill the others. Okay. Spoken like a true serial killer, David. Exactly. Thank you.

Interesting. Well, I don't think she meant that as a compliment. Well, thank you. Sorry, Jess, I don't want to talk to you. Did you mean that as a compliment? I meant it as a compliment. Oh, sorry. Thank you.

Apologies. And also, how hot are women? This is what I'm trying to say. Am I right? The polygraph. Bing, bing. So, yeah, they've dismissed that the killer was targeting a single victim and the other bottles were contaminated to make it harder to solve that murder.

So, essentially, what you're saying, Dave, it's like they're going, no, it's not that somebody is killing one person and trying to cover up their tracks. Oh, okay. Authorities were convinced that the killer didn't know any of the victims. In keeping with that theory, the task force contacted hospitals

to ask about anyone treated for poison burns or symptoms in case the killer became ill or injured during the spree. So maybe like, you know, accidentally ingested some of the cyanide or whatever. Fell over. Fell over. Got a scraped knee. Yeah, everyone in the hospital is a suspect.

Ooh, a sprained ankle. Interesting. Ever heard of cyanide? No. Would I be a good cop? Yeah. Yeah, you'd be terrifying. Do you reckon?

Ever heard of cyanide? What the hell are you talking about? But I would also, I would conduct all of my interrogations at a gym where I'd just be leg pressing and keep the eye contact with them. Yeah. When you were just acting that out before, I don't know if you did this on purpose,

but your eyes were wide open and unblinking. Yeah, I do that while I leg press, just so they know how strong my legs are. And your lids. I've got great lid control. I can go a good 30 seconds without blinking, if I want to. How hot are women? Actually, one more thing.

One final question. How hot are women? Very correct. Okay, you're off the list. Investigators pulled library records to see who had checked out books on cyanide. They're really... They are. They're trying everything.

They're looking for an idiot. And they talked to vets about any unusual animal poisonings, thinking that the murderer may have tested chemicals on pets first. Oh, wow. Which I guess, you know, a lot of serial killers and stuff kill animals. So that's not a bad theory, but I didn't really pull much up for them. That sounds like whoever came up with the theory defending it. Okay, I didn't come up with anything, but it's not a bad theory.

It's not bad. It was worth a try. Oh, it wasn't worth a crack? Okay. All right. Greg, what are your ideas? Yeah, I haven't heard your ideas, Greg. I didn't hear a fucking peep out of you, Greg. Yeah, Greg. Fuck you're an asshole, fine. All right. Greg, what are your ideas? Yeah, I haven't heard your ideas, Greg. I didn't hear a fucking peep out of you, Greg.

Yeah, Greg. Fuck you're an asshole, Greg. You used to be my friend. In an attempt to paint a more detailed portrait of the killer, the FBI turned to a relatively new technique at the time called criminal profiling. Oh, Mulder's great at this. The Tylenol case marked one of the earliest uses of this approach.

Investigators assumed the culprit was a man, though records indicate they didn't automatically rule out anyone based on gender. So, assuming they're a man, not actually helpful or relevant. I think Scully's also very good at it. Right. What a combo. Wow. She often writes in her little diary.

Wait, is she? Yeah. But Mulder also? Or not? Yeah. Yeah, they're both good at it. Yeah, I thought I... You know where they do a lot of profiling?

Criminal Minds. Oh. Yes. I enjoyed that show early on, but then some of the stuff was a bit effed up for me. Really? A bit too effed up for your sick little brain? Yeah, that's right.

Wow. She not sick. There was a cop show that was all about profiling. Yeah, it's Criminal Mind Wow. See, now it's sick. There was a cop show that was all about profiles. Yeah, it's Criminal Minds. Criminal Minds. That was my little joke there. I think there was a... Is that the English one?

No. No. There's probably more than one, I guess. You're thinking of the bill. Reg, one of the greatest profiles. Reg! What a profile! Well, I've done a short course in my time off,

and now I think I can do a bit of profiling. I think I know who nicked two bob worth of mixed lollies down the off-licence. It was that kid over there. That's it, fella. You're nicked. What a great show I love that show Me too

It was One of the You know Daytime TV sucked And that was a little Little bit of a bright spot Sun Hill What a place

Take me back That's it Your neck Your neck You toilet Your neck You toilet Sun Hill The least sunny place On the planet And the sun Ever shone You're nicked. You're nicked, you toilet. You're nicked, you toilet. Sun ill.

The least sunny place on the planet. And the sun ever shone on that show. Sorry, Jess, do go on. So they, yeah, they're not ruling anybody out, but they think it's probably a man. Because studies have found that women who kill use poison more often than men do, but they typically target people they know.

How hot. Women, vindictive. Male murderers are more likely in general to kill randomly and on a larger scale. Is that true? Women just kill people who have wronged them. Settling scores. But with poison.

With poison more often. It really is in its infancy, isn't it, this profiling yeah it could be anyone yeah pretty much we're thinking even over either a woman or a man uh and uh yeah uh just got a note here how hot are women how hot are women so i guess maybe it couldn't have been a woman they're so hot yeah the profile has predicted the culprit's past likely included treatment for mental health issues and an attack on his parents i don't know why he also would have likely had a history of animal cruelty so they've got like they've got like some bullet points of what they're sort of looking for about a week after the deaths a handwritten letter was sent to johnson

and johnson the manufacturers oh it read gentlemen as can see, it is easy to place cyanide, both potassium and sodium, into capsules sitting on store shelves. And since the cyanide is inside the gelatin, it is easy to get buyers to swallow the bitter pill. Another beauty is that cyanide operates quickly. It takes so very little, and there will be no time to take countermeasures. If you don't mind the publicity of these little capsules, then nothing so far i have spent less than 50 and it takes me less than

10 minutes per bottle if you want to stop the killing then wire one million dollars to this bank account right so it was all for the cash for that sweet sweet cash or is someone just trying to take advantage well step in interesting hell you two would be a great crime duo in that you do most of the work dave but matt okay matt walks around going ah and supports women matt has an idea dave says the opposite matt goes yes dave yes okay i think that's uh that's probably reduced some of the work I've done on this case down to just the ums and ahs. That's right.

In fairness, I thought it was Rick Tylenol. Hey, we still don't know that it's not Rick Tylenol. Exactly. I'm hoping you know one way or the other. Matt thinks it's disgruntled employees. I'm making this up as I go. Matt, can I just ask you a question though? Who's hot?

It's hard to put a finger on it, but let me just say, if we're speaking broadly, I'm going to go with women. So Johnson & Johnson, they're obviously very concerned, of course. Both of them are? Johnson & Johnson, both. They're worried this is a legit letter and that the culprit would continue to poison medication. So they're willing to pay the ransom,

but the FBI says, no, no, no, hold off, instead turning their attention to finding the letter writer. Eventually, they trace the letter to a man named James William Lewis. The bank account details were linked to a business that his wife had previously worked for. Apparently, the last paycheck had bounced due to a lack of funds in the business account, and Lewis had provided those bank details,

hoping to get some revenge on his wife's former employer Oh my God, James, you psycho. Absolute psycho. Evidence suggested Lewis and his wife had left Chicago for New York around a month before the deaths, and therefore it was very unlikely he was responsible. He also, he owned up to writing the letter but said i got nothing to do with the murders he was essentially uh he'd had this idea that this is something he would do when an opportunity arose and these poisonings happened a couple months or a month later so he planned to poison people? He planned to fuck his wife's ex-employer.

Oh, yeah, pretend to extort. Yeah, yeah. He was just hoping to frame. Dwayne and Dick Johnson. He just wanted to frame them. Yeah. He just wanted to get revenge on them. James, you're diabolical.

That's dastardly. Absolutely. That's maybe one of the most dastardly plans I've heard. It's pretty dastardly. He was, however, arrested, tried and convicted for extortion and sentenced to 10 years in jail. Oh my God! For that letter.

That'll show him. That'll show the old boss. Jesus. Another suspect was a man named Roger Arnold who worked in a factory with the father of one of the victims, Mary Reiner. While drinking in a bar one night, he started to discuss his theories on the case and stated that cyanide wasn't even that hard to get your hands on. In fact, he had some back at his place. I've got some right here.

between Arnold and the poisonings, officers charged him with a weapons violation and also for an outstanding warrant for an assault and let him go. So who's... One thing he said wasn't even true. Yeah, I got cyanide. I got cyanide. He's just a blowhard at the bar.

But he had all sorts of other weird shit. He's just a loser. And you just... Don't you think you can trust the bar... the guy behind the bar? Not if you're talking about a really high profile... I reckon there should be some sort of like client confidentiality. At a bar. Not if you're talking about a really high profile. I reckon there should be some sort of like client confidentiality.

At a bar. Yeah. Exactly. It's like talking to a priest. I think you might be siding with the wrong person if you just let me get to the next sentence.

That bar dogged him. Okay. Okay. Tell me about it. Well, the media attention caused him to have a bit of a nervous breakdown and in the summer

of the following year he shot and killed John Stanisher who was a computer consultant who was leaving a bar with friends whom he mistook for marty sinclair so he planned the barman to go and shoot the bar owner oh for ratting him out and instead shot the wrong person he is hopeless can't even get murder right he Oh, man, that's awful. He was convicted of the killing and served 15 years of his 30-year sentence for second-degree murder. So awful and so, so sad.

Yeah, that's grim. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on uber eats but meatballs mozzarella balls and arancini balls yes we deliver those moose no but moose head yes because that's alcohol and we deliver that too along with your favorite restaurant food groceries and other everyday essentials order uber eats now for alcohol you must be legal drinking age please enjoy responsibly product availability varies by region. See app for details. We can wait for

clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. The investigation continued and authorities tried many different approaches to find the person responsible for the death of seven people. In early 1983, at the FBI's request, this is crazy,

Chicago Tribune columnist Bob Green published the address and grave location of the first and youngest victim, Mary Kellerman. The story, written with the Kellerman family's consent, was proposed by the FBI criminal analyst John Douglas on the theory that the perpetrator might visit the house or gravesite if he were made aware of its locations. Okay. Right. Like, you don't think that he or she, the murderer, wouldn't probably be able to just

find out? Yeah. You think they're sitting back going, huh, I wish there was a way to find out who the victims were. I guess I'll never know. I can't. Oh, it's been published in the newspaper i'm assuming criminals can find out things like that yeah the address and also like which cemetery

very strange um and then uh both sites were kept under 24-hour video surveillance for several months but nothing came i reckon if i was a criminal mastermind, I would definitely not think that was a trap. Okay. That's actually really convenient. They published that information for me. In the fine print it said, and don't worry, it will not be surveilled. Yeah. You'll have complete and utter privacy. You get to the gravesite and there's like a big net above it.

Oh, what's that for? And below it, but it's covered in leaves but the leaves are blown off but you can see it's a it's a pit and there's a tiger down there yeah it's a really getcha yeah it's so interesting they were just like they were quite desperate they were trying everything there was just um so many different kind of i don't know accusations or suspects a surveillance photo of paula prince purchasing cyanide-tampered Tylenol at a supermarket was released by the Chicago Police Department. Police believed that a bearded man seen just feet behind Prince may be the killer.

Look, I don't know why you're both looking at me. I think, yeah, what year was this? 1982? Yeah, I shaved my beard that year. Oh, okay. That was your one beardless year for the last few decades

no I've had other beardless years what years I once shaved for a friend's wedding what year was that my question wasn't what the events it was what year that was this millennium

did you shave for a friend's wedding and you turned up and they're like who the hell is that yeah people made fun of me all day they said I look like Milhouse because I had glasses ah yeah

and I got this haircut that morning and it's a very funny looking haircut. Hey, you got the dad. The dad looks like you, Poindexter. Exactly. I'm like, well, yeah, I feel good. I feel good at this wedding. My mum had like...

Hey, it's Milhouse. Mum had long hair, like really long brown hair down to like her waist. Got it permed the day of the wedding. So she had like a really short curly... Dad's like, who is that? What the hell? Wrong church lady.

You're making like a wild decision with... Yeah, very bold. For my wedding, I obviously don't want to represent myself like I normally look. No, no, no. I want to look completely different. That would be weird. So who's this red bearded man? I never said red.

Okay. So yeah, there was just a guy, I think behind her, yeah, behind her in the line. And they sort of thought maybe he was the killer. I don't know what that was based on, but they were like, oh, maybe him. He just looks sus. But nothing ever came of that theory either. All right. Yeah. So Matt all right. Yeah.

So Matt got away with it. Oh, look, I just happen to also be buying something from the chemist. Newspaper, some jelly beans, and this 20-pack of giant dingers, please. I'll have some extra strong Tylenol and extra large dingers. Tylenol and extra large dingers. I had a friend once go into like a, I think it was a 7-Eleven. It was late at night to buy dingers. Which are condoms.

Condoms. Who haven't had sex. They're often behind the counter, but not always. So he like had a bit of a look around, couldn't see them anywhere. And was like, you know what? I'm not going to be embarrassed about this it's a perfectly natural thing to do walks up to the counter and says hi mate uh can i get some condoms and the guy just pointed over to a shelf that he hadn't seen he's like yeah you can help yourself i don't you don't need to announce i don't care can i please have sex hello i'm going to have sex now one sex please

that's pretty funny. You know, trying to like being like, you know what? Let's not be children about it. It's not a big deal. I'll just ask. Oh, they're right there. My bad. Okay.

Pretty funny. So yeah, a few different theories about who this killer could be. Is it somebody in surveillance? Then there also wasn't like the surveillance cameras everywhere now. This is back in the 80s. There was less. Even in shops and stuff, it tended to just be maybe one camera, and it was on staff, not, like, on the general public.

They didn't trust staff in the 80s. Didn't trust them. I thought they were going to steal from the till. So they're trying a bunch of different things, and the identity of the killer remained a mystery for 40 years. In fact, it remains a mystery to this day oh you totally got me i thought you were about to say that that recent article had said because that 40 years would be now this year holy shit it's still a mystery still a mystery well you know what this show does oh yeah it weeds them out somehow whenever we give it a few months and this killer will be

always something happens it'll either be the killer will be revealed or they'll make a movie or Zac Efron will play the killer that's right the two options and yeah it's it's as we're recording this on the 29th it's 40 years today what. Today. At the time of recording. What the heck? And that's just a freak coincidence. Yeah. That this happened to be voted as the eighth most popular topic. That's it. That we had to record today.

Yeah. Wow. And the two-part article I mentioned was only two parts out at the time of recording. There was more coming. So there probably will be a bit of press around it because it's 40 years. So it is going to be one of those situations where we do a topic and then people are seeing it a lot in the media.

But yeah, give it a couple of months. But do you think part three of this story will solve it and you'll have to come back next week and say, actually, we do know who it is? Patreon bonus episode. Yeah, that's right. Killer announced. We have an update.

Wow. Yeah, it's still a mystery. And I got you. I got you there. Absolutely. I was an update. Wow. Yeah, it's still a mystery. And I got you. I got you there. Absolutely. I was thinking, holy shit. I was really hoping there was going to be someone paying for this. No, no satisfying conclusion.

Matt was just hoping that someone was going to take the fall for him. No, that's a ridiculous thing to say. A dog? A murdering dog? He loved dogs. I don't like murdering ones. Yeah, we like nice dogs. We like nice doggies.

Not killer dogs. Not bad doggies. Who do you think it was a bad dog? You. A hound? No. You. Okay.

You and you alone. So yeah, no one has ever faced charges or been arrested for the Chicago Tylenol murders. No one even arrested. Nah. They love to arrest people. Other than the guy arrested for extortion. Oh yeah. And the guy who shot the barman.

That sucks. Someone got away with it. The FBI even investigated a theory that another famous killer could have been responsible. In 2011, the FBI requested DNA samples from the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, in connection to the Tylenol murders. He denied having ever possessed potassium cyanide. But the first four Unabomber crimes happened in Chicago and its suburbs from 1978 to 1980. And Kaczynski's parents had a suburban Chicago home in Lombard, Illinois in 1982. So they were like, maybe he was using his parents' place as a base.

But we've obviously done the Unabomber as a topic. That's right. Was that a block topic? Fuck, it might have been. It was definitely one of our... It was a very popular episode. I think it's one of our top three downloads ever. And that was a name that I'd heard a lot,

but I knew nothing about it. It's an amazing story. You know, in a tragic and terrifying way. Much like this. Yeah, exactly right. Nothing linked Ted Kaczynski to it. But even in 2011, they're like, what else? What else? terrifying way but but yeah they uh much like this yeah exactly right nothing nothing linked ted kaczynski to it but even in 2011 they're like uh what else what else that guy working on they're still trying you know you said earlier the guy at the bar bragged about oh it's easy to get cyanide

yeah is that true like i've got no idea if it's well if it's so poisonous like i doubt it yeah um but i'm not 100 sure back. Yeah, where you get it from. Yeah. And what it's for. Yeah. Well, that's it. I do remember reading something about the manufacturing plant, you know, going and checking their cyanide.

And I'm like, why do you have it? Whoa, whoa, whoa. What have you got that for? Why have you got it? What's it used for? It must have a practical use. It must do, but yeah. Do you think people are yelling at their iPods right now? It must have a practical use. It must do, but... Do you think people are yelling at their iPods right now?

Probably. Chemists, mostly. What if I Google it? What do you reckon? I think you'll go on a list, but yeah, go for it. You two have a guess. All right. Practical use of cyanide.

Well, I don't know what a pharmaceutical company would be using it for unless it's like... Burn it down or... It feels like, yeah, even in a small dose it sounds deadly this is not like even a tiny bit can cure cancer or something that's right yeah according to emergency.cdc.gov in manufacturing cyanide is used to make paper textiles and plastics it is present in the chemicals used to develop photographs cyanide salts are used in metallurgy for electroplating, metal cleaning and removing gold from its ore. Cyanide gas is used to exterminate pests and vermin in ships and buildings. So it seems like it's got a lot of uses.

That's interesting. They even sort of were trying to figure out, you know, how the killer actually did it. Like, was it, did they just go into a store, buy or steal a bottle of cyanide, take it out, pull a few apart and fill it, you know? And then take it back. Yeah, exactly. Put it back on the shelf. And I'm guessing that this is pre, like, those one-use seals and stuff?

Oh, my God, Matthew Stewart, your timing? Perfection. Wow. Because one element of this story that we haven't talked about yet is the Tylenol manufacturer, Johnson & Johnson. So before the 1982 crisis, Tylenol controlled more than 35% of the over-the-counter pain reliever market. Only a few weeks after these deaths deaths that number plummeted to less

than eight percent see i know mr tylenol rick tylenol stocks are going down he's buying big buying up but it's going to go back up surely so the this dire situation both in terms of human life and business made it more importantly business made it imperative that johnson and johnson executives respond swiftly and authoritatively. And obviously they were a suspect. Had it been something that they'd done wrong? Was it something in the manufacturing? Investigators first considered whether the tampering

could have occurred at the manufacturing plants. Every Tylenol bottle had a lot number that offered specific details about the batch that those capsules came from. The Kellerman and the Yannis bottles contained Tylenol from lot MC2880, manufactured in Pennsylvania on April 26, 1982, so months earlier, and in Pennsylvania. The bottles travelled to various warehouses, including a final storage stop at a jewel facility in suburban Franklin Park,

before being delivered to different grocery stores on different days before the poisoning. Right, so it's sounding now like someone's gone into the shops and done it. That's right yeah so within 48 hours of the murders the task force used this information to conclude publicly that the pills could not have been poisoned during production right so johnson and johnson weren't you know there wasn't that some rogue employee was doing it it was that somebody was taking the bottles adding poison putting the bottles back so it was random assistant u.s attorney jeremy margulies said at the time obviously johnson and johnson didn't put cyanide in their own products that's clear i wonder i'm guessing there wasn't good cctv in these chemists because otherwise like today you'd imagine that every aisle has a camera and you could just they would have found the person who totally right yeah you

would think so they would have been like it was that blurry man that blurry man did it. Totally, right? Yeah. You would think so. They would have been like, it was that blurry man. That blurry man did it. The blurry man? That sounds like an X-Files episode. Yeah. It's actually, I just watched an episode about a blurry. They had CCTV footage

and it was only one frame and it was a blur and then they used all these new techniques to add color and shape and enhance and shadow. I recognize those colors.

That's a letterman jacket color david letterman got him again king of late night so this is um jeremy jeremy margulies again the likelihood that the same person could have put cyanide into different batches manufactured at different times in different places was logistically zero. So very quickly the manufacturer was cleared of responsibility. But Johnson & Johnson initially recalled only those products with the same batch number like we mentioned before. But people were terrified. Something like this had never happened before.

People quickly lost their faith in the safety of their medicine, food, milk, everything because nothing was sealed back then. Food, milk, nothing was sealed at all. Everything just came in an open box. It was just a box to help yourself. Take a fistful. A fistful of milk. How many fistfuls of milk do we need for the kids?

Six. After those bottles of milk came in before, it was just buckets. Open top buckets of milk. And you just went in and you just scooped out as much as you needed. Sorry, as I call it, the good old days. Yeah. Take me back. With fears mounting, Johnson & Johnson recalled all over-the-counter Tylenol products on October 5th,

nearly a week after Mary Kellerman's death. It marked the first mass recall in US history involving more than 31 million bottles. Wow. This decision cost the company $100 million in 1982 money. They offered replacement capsules to those who turned in pills already purchased and a reward for anyone with information leading to the apprehension of the individual or people involved in these random murders. That, I think, that reward money is still up for grabs. From the New York Times, they also developed new product protection methods and ironclad pledges to do better in

protecting their consumers in the future. Working with FDA officials, they introduced a new tamper proof packaging, which included foil seals and other features that made it obvious to a consumer if foul play had transpired. These packaging protections soon became the industry standard for all over-the-counter medication. The company also introduced price reductions and a new version of their pill called the Caplet, which was a tablet coated with a slick, easy-to-swallow gelatin, but you couldn't tamper with it.

It was like a solid tablet rather than the capsule. So that just made people feel a little bit safer. And then they put it in the tamper-proof bottles. Amazingly, within a year, Tylenol sales rebounded to its healthy pass, and it became once again the nation's favorite over-the-counter pain reliever critics who had prematurely announced the death of the brand tylenol were now praising the company's handling of the matter and i rick tylenol you've done it again god he's good an article in the washington post said johnson and johnson has effectively

demonstrated how a major business ought to handle a disaster. In fact, it's still studied in PR classes at universities because it's generally viewed as a textbook PR masterclass. Wow. The way they handled it is so praised. They couldn't have done any better. That's amazing. Because they put the consumer first. They took big sacrifices financially as a business and it paid off,

which is kind of cool, I guess. In 1983, the US Congress passed what was called the Tylenol Bill, making it a federal offense to tamper with consumer products. And by 1989, the FDA established federal guidelines for manufacturers to make all such products tamper-proof. But yeah, prior to that, things weren't really sealed. And even now, like, not that something like this has happened in my lifetime because I'm incredibly young.

Well, stuff has, of course, but I mean, like, I wasn't alive for this exact one. But I don't know where it came from, but I'm sort of, if a seal's not on properly on something i'm like not sure about that what's going on here you know but i i didn't live through something like this so i don't know where that came from it must have just been passed down to us yeah you know but yeah i'm always like oh why isn't this sealed what's going on here oh use it anyway yeah i'll still use it of course hopefully it's got cyanide in it but now now you think about like, for example, Panadol here. It's all inside little packets and you pop it out.

That's right, yeah. And if one of those is a bit skew, if you're like, did I do that? Did I just knock it and kind of pierce that aluminum? I'll just taste it. I'll just taste it. I'll just lick this. Smells like an almond, but is this an almond flavored one? Let me check the packaging.

I've already taken the pill, but I'll just check the packaging. is this an almond flavored one let me check the packaging i've already taken the pill but i'll just check the packaging that's not almond flavored but i don't have a headache anymore yeah that's at least you are as you're floating above your body what am i doing down there so yeah i suppose that is one very very small silver lining that i'm desperate to find in a very tragic story um yeah it's funny that when things like that happen and you're like, it's like, oh, that's a silver lining. Yeah. But if those sort of things don't happen, you don't need that. Exactly.

So it's a funny silver lining. It's great. So good, isn't it? That we seal everything now because seven people died. Everything's sealed in silver linings now. How good is that? That is good stuff. That is good stuff.

Thank you. So, yeah, the tragic and devastating deaths of seven innocent people that sparked fear and paranoia in the entire US and around the world prompted changes to be made that prevent something like this happening again. And that is the very sad and mysterious story of the Chicago Tylenol murders. Great work, Bob. Block number eight. Can you believe it?

Wow, what a story. It's amazing that it hasn't been solved. Yeah, isn't it? Someone killed so many people and didn't face any consequences. And yeah, if that happened today, Matt's right. Like there'd be CCTV in every supermarket aisle, every chemist. Like it would be kind of easy to see who's taken some tylenol come back a little while later and put tylenol back on the shelf yeah you know would be

there'd be a lot more to go on but yeah there's no sort of paper trails and yeah it's pretty messed up very messed up yeah a bit of a bit of an understatement there from me. It's like pretty bad, hey? Yes. Well, that brings us to everyone's favourite section of the show. The section of the show where we get to thank our fantastic supporters who I personally think are all hot. Something I know about women, something I know about our Patreon supporters. Hotties!

Hotties. Our women Patreon supporters. Extra hot. Extra hot. oh my god ouch they're that hot that's i just touched one consensually so very hot i just touched one that's one of them if you uh if you want to get involved firstly make sure you're hot and then go to patreon.com slash to go on pod and you you can sign up on all sorts of levels. What are some of the rewards people get for signing up? They get three bonus episodes per month. Three of them. Crazy.

They get access to a Facebook group, the nicest corner of the internet. They get to vote on what topics we do reports on. And they get early access to tickets to live shows oh yes and they recently got access to matt and i if you haven't heard uh coming back to the uk in november we're doing some stand-up and podcast shows yeah i needed a couple of weeks off so i booked you guys some shows thank you so i really appreciate that and the other patreon supporters got first dibs on those tickets, which they always do, and a discount.

And just in case you've been skipping the ad at the top of the episode, let me tell you about those UK shows now. We are coming to Birmingham, Glasgow, Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, and London. Matt, we're doing some book cheats. We're doing some Who Knew It with Matt Stewart. Each show ends with a stand-up show, so you get two tickets for the price of one. So good. Oh, wonderful. Oh, wonderful.

Oh, wonderful. Oh, lovely. And you can get tickets at dogoonpod.com right now. Gosh, we'd love to see you there. Yeah. Can't wait. We've got a PHS back for these flights that you booked us on. Yeah, I booked you some flights.

Did you have to book first class? Well, I wanted you. Only the best for my boys. Yeah, I actually appreciate it. But we are very much in debt. Oh, my God. I bought tickets. The good thing is we only got one ticket, but the two of us in one first class chair. They're the best for my boys. Yeah, I actually appreciate it. But we are very much in debt. Oh my God, buy tickets.

The good thing is we only got one ticket, but the two of us in one first class chair. Plenty of space. Still can't. We won't even touch each other. We refuse. One of the other things people can get involved in is the fact, quote or question section. You can do that by signing up at the Sydney Schoenberg level or above.

Then you get to give us a fact quote or question and this section of the show has a little jingle go something like this fact quote or question yeah he always remembers the ding she always remembers the jingle uh and yeah once you get involved you get to give us a fact a quote or a question or a brag or a suggestion or anything you like really you also get to give yourself a title first up this week we've got one from peter atkin aka lord regent of the third court of the official parliament for representation of international do go on interests and issues i got every fourth word of that but that sounds yeah sounds incredibly important uh and peter is asking a question writing hey guys i have a cheeky brag which

leads to a question oh love that me and my brothers recently completed the british three peaks challenge uh which is climb the tallest mountains in the three british countries in 24 hours and it was in 24 hours Amazing. That's wild. Are there only three? Is North Island not counted as a... I'm so confused by the UK and Great Britain. Maybe the island of Britain. Oh, I see. Maybe, yeah, that's fair enough.

So Wales, Scotland, and... I always forget the third one. Northern Ireland's part of the UK. Yeah. Wales, Scotland, and what is that third one? It's a small one, isn't it? It's tiny. Ah, I've lost it.

Don't worry. Well, you know, the other one. And the rest. And the rest. Peter goes on. What would youse guys say? Is this an Aussie abroad? What would youse guys say was the most challenging challenge you've ever done?

Be it physical, mental, or perhaps other. Thanks so much for the constant laughter and good vibes. Also, York isn't as posh as those Leeds lot like to say. But is it as handsome as we like to say? Handsome. But is it as handsome? We are so handsome. Based on those three big Viking brothers that we met one time.

They were so handsome. Handsome, those beautiful handsome men. It feels like you're making fun of me, but I don't understand how. So the question is, what's the most challenging thing we've done? I would say, because I've done a challenge, which is for the Guinness World Records longest ever variety show. That's right. I think I got a Facebook reminder that was eight years ago this month that Adam Knox and I,

as part of the Melbourne Fringe Festival, attempted to host the world's longest variety show. And the rules were, as hosts, we could only do five minutes in between each act and no act could go longer than 10 minutes. And I stayed way under from memory. How many seconds were left on the clock? We were basically tackling Matt off the stage

because if someone goes over 10 minutes, you get disqualified. I was doing pretty well, so I didn't want to just get off the stage. When you're crushing. I was mid-bit and bear hugged me off the stage. Were you involved in that, Bopper? No.

This was before my time. Before your time. But yeah, I think it went for about 13 and a half hours or something like that. It broke the record. Unfortunately, before it got verified by Guinness, someone else in New York did an even longer one. What a piece of shit. So it means it never fully qualified.

I'm so sorry, Dave. It's a big apple. Those dogs. And you never thought to try again? I mean... They beat it by a long way from memory. I think they went to 22 hours or something. Okay, and you never thought to try again.

Again, like, just answer the question. It was just so much admin. Yeah, it's a lot. It was so much. What about you, Bop? Have you ever been challenged? No, I don't think so. You find life pretty easy.

I don't. Pretty breezy. Anything that seems challenging, I don't try. Okay. It's not that I find life easy. I find small tasks awful. Right. What about that leg press record you hit?

Yeah, it wasn't a challenge though. No, that was easy. That was easy. Whatever. Yeah, I can't think of anything that's been... I mean, of course I've done things that are challenging. I can't think of anything. I think because I'm comparing it to like climbing three mountains.

Yes. I'm like, nah, probably not. I've not done anything like that. I've got the mountains here. So in Scotland, it's ben nevis that's the tallest one i've heard of him 1345 meters okay i don't know what that means well for for scale kozioska we all know how tall that is that's 2200 meters so it's smaller than kozioska and i've done kozioska yeah and then you go down to uh england they've got that's the other

one matt but you would have driven or you walk walked from the base of Mount Kosciuszko yeah I've walked to the top of Kosciuszko I've never done that it's like there's a trail it's not that hard well I was a child but even as a kid

I was like as a teen I was like this isn't that hard like I've been to the top of Mount Buffalo but like driving to a car park and then walking

the last you know half an hour it's like it would be hours longer right I don't even remember it didn't feel like it was that bad yeah right i did it as a teenager did you go past swiggins hole probably whatever it's called smiggins hole would i do it again now though no because i don't

like a challenge no and but that doesn't sound like that one was one yeah but i was you know when you you know like kids just run all day and you're like, how are you doing that? I was a teenager. I was probably fit. Red cordial. Now I'm like, nah, stuff that. And so then England at Scaffold Park. England.

Yeah, that's the other one. 978 meters. 978 meters. Okay. And then there's Wales, which is Snowdon, which is just over a thousand meters. I'm on mountaineering.com and they say the 24 hour challenge, the walking distance is 23 miles. That's how far you walk. That's a long way.

You drive 450 miles, which takes 10 hours in itself. Oh, wow. Wow. So you're probably up for 24 hours, I reckon. That's wild. And it's obviously not flat walking either. That's a long walk. Yeah alone walking diagonally up and downhill. Wow, that's redonkulous.

Apparently, this other website says that all up, it's 13 hours of trek, 10 hours of driving. Nah. So 23 hours, you just get it done. Wow. Matt, we're going to be there soon. Do you want to do it? No.

You don't have the time, I don't think. Coward. Absolutely coward. I wish you could. Otherwise I'd do it. I've booked in too many shows for you. You can't do it. I'd like to.

I'll do the three Irish pub challenge. I'll go to an Irish pub in each of Wales, Scotland and... What was it? Was it Ireland? No. No. No, it's not Ireland. Silly. What's that small one No. Of course not. No, it's not Ireland. Silly.

What is that small one? It doesn't matter. No, it is an island. That's what I'm thinking of. Right. Yeah, I don't know. I've done a few fun runs. I think the furthest one I ever did was like 15Ks,

and that felt like shit the whole time. Yeah, they're not fun runs. I felt that challenging. I want to get back into them because I felt good afterwards, and I'm feeling a bit like a slob this year. So I should just book it in and do it. That's an awesome effort. Well done, Peter Atkin.

Yeah, amazing. Impressive. Or Aitken. And next up, I'd love to thank Erica, who is also known as Yeehaw Queen. Oh, say it properly. Yeehaw Queen? Yeah, but like, perform queen. Oh, say it properly. Yeehaw, queen. Yeah, but like, like perform it. Oh, yeehaw, queen.

Okay. How would you do it? Yeehaw, queen. Oh, yeehaw, queen. That was my first go. I know, Matt doesn't respond well to direction. That's right. And this comes from, so Erica writes,

this, bracket, fun, Jess, Bueller fact, comes on the heels of listening to the Fab Mission Impossible episode and remembering the time that Jeremy Renner broke both of his arms. One may assume he did this while filming Avengers or Born Legacy or even Mission Impossible movies. But no, no. He did this while filming the cinematic masterpiece Tag. I've seen Tag.

You've seen Tag? Yeah, I've seen Tag. You've seen Tag? No. It's a romp. Yeah. It's a great airplane movie. Yeah, great plane movie.

It's a group of friends who have an ongoing game of Tag. Based on a true story. Through their entire lives. During a scene where he climbs up a stack of chairs 20 feet high to escape being tagged by his friends. The rigging failed and his arms went snap. Anyway, he returned to filming that same scene again on the same day. And they had to CGI his casts out. Then he had to CGI his casts out.

Then he had to go shoot with his bow and arrow as Hawkeye. Cheers to a legend, because he did go on, but more importantly, cheers to you, legends. Thank you for all you do. Erica, thank you, ye Harqueen. No, ye Hawqueen. Oh, my God. Is that a better performance? No no it's not that worse how are you getting worse at this yee-haw queen yes there it is oh that helped i just did some boot scooting before it yeah yeah that did help yeah for the listeners at home we turned the

mics off for two hours matt did some boot scooting. We just find it brings out the best in him. I put Steps Club 7 on. Steps Club 7. My boot scooting, baby. Driving me crazy. My obsession from a mess in summer days. My rodeo, Romeo. Not the bad, no.

Nine, five, six, 7, 8. Amy C. from M.E. is next up. Okay. Embalmer sans ass packing. Because if you know what you're doing, it's really unnecessary. The ass packing? If you know what you're doing. Okay.

She's calling it. It's amateur hour. These ass packers. Yeah, it's ass packers. Amy's got a suggestion suggestion which is keep up the excellent work this is the podcast that got me through 2020 and 2021 and thus far in 2022 when i didn't see my family for almost a year because i'm actually a funeral director and embalmer okay no was not kidding. No. Wow.

I wonder if it truly is amateur hour to pack arses. I wonder, I imagine that wouldn't have been a fun episode to listen to because you'd be like, oh, that's not quite right.

I do find the people who dislike episodes are usually someone who's very close to it. Either they're a big fan of something. Riverdance. Or otherwise.

My mother was diagnosed with a type of cancer in 2018 making her a high-risk person once the pandemic became reality in order to keep her safe and healthy as possible and keep doing my job when needed most we just decided as a family that i wouldn't visit anyone in person until safe to do so. Oh, that's hard. So brutal. 2020 turned out to be a year full of hate and anger toward funeral directors. Really? Wow. And I imagine a lot of other people too,

which isolated me even more than most. Being able to tune in to your humorous dynamic and silly antics consistently every week meant I could keep serving families in an empathetic and compassionate way that didn't reflect the heinous amount of bullshit that wasn't my fault. God, that's awful. I can't believe that. Yeah, wow. But I was being forced to deal with thanklessly regardless.

My financial support is long overdue and finally brought to you by Matt saying pussy needs a dickin' on some episode several months back. If you, Matt, hopefully could also say Barbados in that special way. I don't know a special way. I think you just did it. No, I don't know if I can do it in a special way. I'll just say it how it is. Barbados in that special way. I did just re-listen to the Bermuda Triangle episode. Do you remember that one, Matt? It was a good one. Yeah, I remember.

I made some money for charity that day. Yes. Yes, you did. What an episode. Bravely. Bravely. But most recently by Michelle Brazier, naming a drink the 9-11,

which was frankly long overdue as well. You're all marvelous. Don't change a thing. Do you remember Pussy Needs a Dickin'? I don't. I don't remember that at all. And it feels like, but I can imagine your regret face immediately after saying it. Pussy Needs a Dickin'.

The context of that would really, a lot of that depends on context. But I think in any context, that feels like a good and cool thing to say. Pussy needs a dickin'. Should we get T-shirts made? Good and cool. As we always say. Pussy needs a dickin'. That's at least a sticker.

Yeah, fantastic. So funny, no recollection of that at all. Thank you very much, Amy C. from MA. So sorry that you went through that. That sucks. On top of being isolated from your family yeah i had i yeah i had a few friends who were kind of doing the same thing with sick parents so that is really tough and it's i mean uh it's really lovely that we brought you any kind of joy that's really nice emmy thank you for sharing that with us. And finally, this week for the Fact, Quote or Question section,

Scott Turner, a.k.a. Visitor Experience Manager of the Semi-Aquatic Museum of Niche Sports. Okay. Has offered us a fact. Writing, first time Fact, Quote or Question submitter. Hey team, I'm going to share a fact, but I'll slip in a brag before I do. After listening to the show for a long time i recently got a new job as the visitor experience manager of a children's museum here in washington dc i get to go to work each day and combine my passions for education

accessibility and performance to improve the experience of the children and families that come to the museum. The increase in salary has enabled me to support the show, which is why you're hearing from me. To the fact. Congratulations on the new gig. Yeah. Amazing. Sounds so cool.

Matt, as a diverse sports fan, I wanted to share a sport that I love that you might find interesting. That sport is swim run. Sorry to laugh. It just sounds like someone's panicked when trying to name it. We need a new sport. Swim run. Swim running.

Oh. What is it? You swim and then run in the water. I'm so glad you asked, Dave. Jess is basically... Did I nail it? I haven't read ahead yet, but I'm guessing. Let's find out. Let's find out if I nailed it. It's a fusion of trail

running and open water swimming where athletes traverse water where athletes traverse whatever comes their way. Often taking place on an archipelago. Sorry for the geography Jess. You hate it. You hate any. I have no fucking idea what that is.

It's like a lot of little islands. Yeah. Dave doesn't know. Is Indonesia an archipelago? It doesn't matter. Yeah. It's my impression of Dave. It's islands, isn't it?

Yeah. Is Japan an archipelago? What a beautiful... I just like saying it. It's fun to say. But I won't say it. Don't yell at your iPods. Dave, you can...

When I finish this, can you explain? There is a Japanese archipelago. Thank you. A Philippine archipelago. The Maldives. The Galapagos Islands. Okay. Canary Islands.

Indonesia. The Hawaiian Islands are all examples. Damn it. Oh, and I'm sure that's there. I just haven't... So, it goes on to say... Great Indonesia archipelago. Okay.

Thank God. We saved a archipelago. Okay. Thank God. We saved a few iPods there. People are smashing them against brick walls. Athletes run in teams of two to the end of an island, jump in the water, swim to the next, and repeat until the finish line. Talking about challenges before, this seems like an epic challenge.

I just... I don't it good for you i love people who love to do these sorts of challenges physically me absolutely not right because it feels like it sounds like such a beautiful place but it would be hard to take much of it like just go on holiday. That's my challenge. Holiday. I'd also. I feel like I open water swimming with a lot of people around when you're already knackered from running.

That just sounds like a bit nightmarish to me. Don't I tell you I got seasick in the water? Oh. Like in the water. I'm snorkeling around. Is it similar to crying? People can't tell you're doing it when you're under the water? You could tell when I was vomiting into the water.

Yeah. I think because suddenly fish were all around me. Oh, chum. You were chumming it. I was chumming it. But for you, Matt, is the water your safe place? Yeah. Well, don't get in there with me then.

Doesn't sound too safe around Bob. You swim in your shoes, run in special wetsuits. Often the water is very cold. Climb slippery rocks and run through incredible terrain. I invest a great deal of my time in training for this sport and it paid off this year as I won my first ever race as an endurance athlete. The best part about this crazy sport?

Amazing. It began as a drunken bet by some friends living near the Swedish archipelago and has been growing ever since. Might make a great topic. That's cool. Hope that wasn't dry. Thanks for the laugh, Scott.

Well done, Scott. Congratulations. See, that's the thing. I find that so cool and so impressive, and I love people who have that kind of dedication to things. It's just not something I could ever even fathom, but that is so cool, Scott. Good job.

Amazing. Yeah, I love it. It sounds, I think it would be an awesome thing to watch even, you know, because of the scenery and stuff. Yeah. Again, you could just go on holiday. Triathlon or whatever.

Yeah. Just sit back and watch. Just go watch him. Some swim run. Cocktail or something. Swim run. Or is it run swim? Swim run.

Swim run. Swim run. Even though it does sound like you usually start on land. Thank you so much to Scott, Amy, Erica and Peter. We also shout out to a few other of our great supporters, Bob, normally. And you normally come up with a bit of a game. That's true. A little hard with this one being about some poisoning murders.

Who's one of our heroes? Helen. Helen's great. Helen Jensen. What's something, maybe something that they would have solved if people listened to them? You know, like. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Okay, great. That's fun. Well, first up from Address Unknown, can only assume from somewhere deep within the fortress of the moles. It's Melissa C. Rubik's Cube. If only people had listened. If only they'd listened.

She said clockwise, damn it. And they went anti-clockwise. What were they thinking? They still, to this day, have not solved a Rubik's Cube. Fools. Melissa C. Melissa C. went out on her own. Stomped her feet.

Stomped her feet, got her own Rubik's Cube and solved it. She said, look, just do it like this. And they're like They're like What are you talking about That doesn't look right Sorry you're so shrill I can't hear what you're talking about

Did you move the stickers around Or what So you haven't jumbled it yet Okay That's what I'm hearing Because you bought it Freshly made Oh that's the key

Oh yeah Never jumble Never jumble Thank you very much Melissa Melissa C And I'm so sad That they didn't listen C of course

Standing for Cube Yeah Melissa Cube Melissa's middle name is Rubik's Thank you very much, Melissa. And I'm so sad that they didn't listen. C, of course, standing for cube. Yeah. Melissa Cube. Melissa's middle name is Rubix. We really should have listened. You think Rubix is a beautiful name for a boy or girl? Yeah. Absolutely.

That's nice. You got Ruby. Let's Rubix. I think you've zhooshed up Ruby a little bit there, if anything. Rubix. And you've got Ruby for short if you want anyway. That's nice. Good to give a kid options. Or Bix. Bix. Bix. x bico uh next i'd love to thank from toledo in ohio in

the united states god's country it's justin coy justin coy what could he have prevented if people listened to him dave he could have prevented World War II. Whoa. Only people had listened. Are you serious? He was saying, don't invade Belgium. And Hitler was like, stand aside, Justin Coy. Really?

Yeah. Oh, my God. I had no idea. Of course, Coy by name, Coy by nature. He was like, okay. Wow. Yeah, that's what Coy is. Because we did World War I.

Belgium was very key there as well. wasn't fully just a repeat again we should get her oh no the Poland I thought it was I don't know for sure but people do talk about Poland a bit yeah but he also was there he was saying he was trying to stop world war one as well they're only justin coy he yeah he said he said to franz ferdinand no no don't turn down this street that's the wrong street you're gonna get shot and you're gonna kick off world war one yep and franz ferdinand said what are you talking about you're gonna take me out get this man uh thank you very much to just. The next person I'd love to thank is from Alexandria in ABC in Great Britain. Wow.

I wonder where ABC is. That's Sean Parfory. Sean Parfory. Parfory is a beautiful name. Beautiful name. If only we'd listened. When Sean told us. That the Hindenburg.

Yeah. Should never be built. He said, no, don't. He just slapped it and said, this should never be built. And they're like, well, it is. It's already there. It's taking off. You're touching it. In fact, you're attached to it.

You're flying. You're flying this. Don't let go, actually. You're flying this airship. You're the captain. You're the captain. You're the pilot. So I don't care that you think it should never have been.

You just need to pay attention. He's like, it should go up. It'll come back down. He's like, yeah, that's the plan. That's the point. At its destination. We don't want it to fly forever. He's like, no.

In flames. He tried. Great work, Sean. Thanks, Sean. He just didn't understand every sentence. They misunderstood it. Bloody hell. You can really just Sean. He just didn't understand every sentence. They misunderstood it. Bloody hell. You can really just interpret things however you want to.

In flames. Heroic flames. Yes. Metaphoric flames. Flames of glory. Sure. Jess, would you like to thank a few people? Matt, nothing would bring me more joy.

Me neither. I would love to thank from Rising Sun in Maryland, MD. Rising Sun. How nice is that? I would love to thank from Rising Sun in Maryland, MD. Rising Sun. How nice is that? I would love to thank Shelby. Shelby, I could have, if only you'd have listened, my Ikea couch would have four legs instead of three. Shelby warned you.

But I said, I don't need this, and I threw it out. Now my couch. And Shelby said, Dave, you're going to need that. That's a fourth leg for your couch. This is a spare leg. Couches only have three. I threw it out, and then couch. And Shelby said, Dave, you're going to need that. That's a fourth leg for your couch. This is a spare leg. Couches only have three. I threw it out and then I sat on it and I realised Shelby was right. You toppled. But the garbage truck was driving down the street.

Which leg was it? Back left. Back left. I didn't think that was important. As you're sitting on or as you're looking at the couch? I know, of course. It's important to get these facts established. It's couch stage left. Okay. That doesn't answer.

I don't get it. Stage left did always confuse me. Anyway, so that's interesting, Dave. So to look at the couch, it probably still looks fine. It looks fine, but you should not sit on that couch under any circumstances. What about on the right? Can you still sit on the right side? Yeah, but the dog shat there.

Okay. Okay. This doesn't sound like a good couch. Oh, no, it's not a good couch. I really should have listened to Shelby. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, thank you, Shelby. I would also love to thank from Ghoul. Coming up to Halloween, very appropriate.

Ghoul. I would love to thank Holly Franklin. Holly Franklin. More like Holly Frankenstein. Ghoul. Oh, that's good stuff. Oh, it's actually Frankenstein's monster. Oh, ghoul.

Not that far from Leeds. East of Leeds. Please, please, please, please. Ghoul has the Ghoul Museum. Okay. And a Tesco and an Argos. Ooh. What kind of ghouls do they have there? Hot ones. Hot ghouls. Hot ghoul museum okay and a tesco and an argos what kind of ghouls do they have there uh hot ones

hot ghouls my favorite kind of ghouls and what could have been avoided if we just listened to holly franklin listen to holly franklin we would have been able to avoid climate change damn step aside al gore holly franklin making TED Talks long before you were, my friend. More like Al Ghul. Ghul. Yeah, if only we'd listened. Honestly, this is probably the most important one since the couch. Yeah.

Yeah. Put the dog shed on. Holly's been saying for ages, hey, this isn't good. Hey, we should, yeah. This isn't good. Hey, guys should, yeah. This isn't good. Hey, guys, nah, guys, for reals, this isn't good. Holly just doesn't use alarmist language. Yeah.

They're just a bit chill. Yeah, a bit too chill. I think that's why people were a bit dismissive. Yeah. So a lesson for Holly there as well to, I guess, be more assertive. So, yeah, we all have things to learn here anyway. Holly, have you tried stomping your feet? Holly, yeah, yell.

Yell and stomp your feet and then they'll listen. Finally, for me, I would love to thank from Caloundra West in Queensland, Australia. It is Emily. Oh, Emily. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that we didn't listen to you in particular. This was something that Emily...

Remember when Emily messaged us, Dave, just before we made that big blunder? Oh, my goodness. Such a big blunder. Yeah, what was it again? We ordered the wrong colour paint for our office. You idiots. So one wall's pink and the other one is slightly less pink. Yeah.

It looks terrible. It looks awful. What a blunder. Emily's like, yeah. And that's why you guys have been fired for that blunder. Pink feature walls. You can't have four feature walls, she said. Yeah, four slightly not discoloured feature walls.

All of a sudden, if you have all feature walls, none of them are feature walls. Well, then we were saying, you're the feature then. You're the feature. Yeah. We don't want the walls to get all the attention. That's right. We want to have the attention. Look at me.

We want people to walk into our office and go, wow. Look at that. You're really popping off that wall. Yeah. We want really ugly walls so we look hotter in comparison. Is that too much to ask? I don't think it is. But we should have listened to Emily.

Dave, do you want to thank some people? Hey, love. So I'm on the Ghoul Museum website. Oh, it's free entry, everyone. 6,000 images of Ghoul apparently on display. We should go to Ghoul Museum, Dave, when we're over there. All right. Let's put it on the list.

I'm also so keen when we're in Glasgow, up in Scotland, obviously, a little bit east from there, we can go to a museum that has a Concord. Oh. Whoa. Man, I want to get on that thing. I was sure you were going to talk

about the Penn Museum. Oh, that's in Birmingham. Okay. Take me to the Penn Museum. So many things on the list. Hey, I would like to thank... Wow, this is great. Jesse, are you getting jealous

listening to this itinerary? We're going to go to the Go museum and then write a flung cord. Flung cord. I'm going to cry on a flung cord. Goodbye. It's not too late, Jess. Yeah, I think I'm going to go quit my job. Jess is like, I think it's too late.

That sucks. My favourite comment was when we said we're doing the podcast and that each show will feature us two and a special guest and someone wrote, I hope the special guest is Jess. Honestly, I'd be disappointed if nobody was like, why is it Jessica? Where's Jess? I'd be a little hurt.

So I'm glad somebody was like, I hope it's Jess. Imagine it is, but we just didn't announce you. You flew me in for one. That is pretty fun. That would be fun. Put you on the phone call. We did. Put you on the phone call.

But yeah, obviously we wanted Jess to be there. Don't lie to them. Hey, I'd love to thank some people as well. Obviously I wanted Jess to be there. Dave is mad at me. Well, you let me paint that feature wall and it looks fucking terrible. Hey, I'd like to thank from... This is a fantastic place. Mechanicsburg.

Oh. In Pennsylvania? Philadelphia. What is this? Penn Museum. Oh, the Penn Museum. Let me look this up. Mechanicsburg in Pennsylvania.

It's Brennan Dickerson. Holy shit. That's such a good name. That is such a great name. Brennan Dickerson. It's unfair because we know that our supporters are hot, but it's unfair that they also have the best names. It's such a good name. That is such a great name. Brennan Dickerson. It's unfair because we know that our supporters are hot, but it's unfair that they also have the best names. It's not fair.

And they also have good personalities. It's like, come on. How can you have it all? Normally you can't have it all. Not in Brennan Dickerson's case. No, that's good. You know what I always say? This pussy needs a Dickerson.

You know what I always say, this pussy needs a dickerson. What has Brennan saved or could have saved if we'd listened? Matt from that awkward joke. That's right, Brennan got a tap on the shoulder. Matt ran it past Brennan first and Brennan went, no, I don't think it'll fly. I don't think Jess will support you on that joke, which she should have done. I think she'll just stare at you and let you sit in the moment for a bit.

She thought that would be funny. So I reckon don't even bother. But Matt didn't listen, and he went for it anyway, and I let him fall. It was a panicked call. I didn't catch him. We just quickly, they wouldn't have noticed, but we quickly paused the recording because i was getting a call

oh from brennan dickerson yeah okay i'll take it well this is highly unusual brennan we're in the middle of a recording is everything okay brennan where are you for those uh there's the small niche of listeners who remember the Warwick Capit tapes from Get This. Look it up. Enjoy yourself. Warwick, where are you? Brendan Dickerson, fantastic. And I'm so sorry.

I really should have listened to you there. And I apologize that I did not. We could edit it out, but no. I've done it. And I have to do some of the consequences. Yep, live with yourself. I would also love to thank from waterloo in new south wales it's cam cam cam jess what did cam what could cam have prevented

prevented um if only they listened the uh the you know the 2000 o Games opening ceremony when Kathy Freeman lit the cauldron and there was like the bit of a mechanical error and it just sort of hung there for a little bit. Big pause. Cam actually, he saw that being a potential problem and suggested a few easy things they could have done to ensure that did not occur. And it happened anyway. What? They didn't listen. They should have listened. They should have listened. Cam, I would have listened.

Yeah. You know what you're talking about. But they didn't. Well, next time. Next time Sydney Hurst the Olympics, I'm sure they'll listen. And I would finally like to thank from Worcester in Great Britain, Kevin Sanders. Kevin Sanders. Kevin Sanders.

Kevin Sanders. Do you want me to do this final one? Yeah, if you've got... If you know, I don't know this one. Well, I know it, but it's just so frustrating that people didn't listen because Kevin Sanders said to the producers on Hey Hey It's Saturday, the world's moved on from blackface.

And Daryl Summers jumped in and he said, I don't think so. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. And they had the Jackson Jive perform in blackface on Australian national TV in primetime in maybe like 15 years ago. Yeah, I'm looking it up when that was because it was too recently. But luckily, Harriet Connick Jr. was there. Honestly, if he wasn't there, I don't think anyone would have known that it was not right.

I think it was in 2009. Okay, less than 15 years ago. So yeah, if only they took that call seriously from Kevin Sanders. Yeah, I don't know why that came to mind. And I kind of regret bringing the grimness back. Anyway, thank you so much, Kevin, Cam, Brennan, Emily, Holly, Shelby, Sean, Justin, and Melissa. We really appreciate it. And hopefully people listen to you in the future and they've all learned their lessons.

You deserve to be heard. Yes. The last thing we like to do is bring in a few people into the Triptych Club. Now, to get involved in the Triptych Club, you've just got to sign up and support us for three straight years on the shout-out level or above. And basically what it is, a bit of theatre of the mind, you get your lifetime membership by doing that. I'm standing on the door.

I've got the velvet rope ready to lift it up. I've got a clipboard with your names on it, the guest list. Two names on the list this week. Jess, you're normally in there behind the bar. Are you serving cocktails this week? Absolutely not. None of these alcohol bottles were sealed. And so I've thrown them all out.

Okay, that's all for the best. And I ordered fresh sealed bottles, but they have not arrived in time. So you can have water. Yep. I've probably got some apple juice at the back of the fridge somewhere. Sealed? Oh, yeah, that's sealed. I got some long life milk. somewhere. Sealed? Oh, yeah, that's sealed.

I got some long life milk. Okay. Sealed. Sealed. But yeah, apart from that, I will be serving seal though. Okay. A delicacy. Oh.

The singer. Baby seal. I've killed seal. You've clubbed him to death. I've clubbed the singer seal to death. Wow. And so we will be having that. Okay, interesting. And Dave, you normally book a band?

Yes, we have. I hopefully booked. It wasn't a double booking here. Thank goodness it wasn't Seal. That's next week. So I'm going to have to really go back to... Yeah, I'm going to scramble there, my friend. My emails.

But I am... He will not be responding. I have booked Chicago's own The Smashing Pumpkins this week. Wow. That's right. The world is a vampire. Oh, they love a ghoul. They love a ghoul.

Awesome. Oh, that's fantastic. And yeah, I don't think there's anything else we need to do apart from welcome in our two brand new guests. Dave's up on the stage. He's emceeing the show. The welcome party. Everyone who's already in is there chanting along with these names. Dave, you ready to go? You ready to hype these people up?

I am so ready to rock. Because Dave is a bit low on confidence, Jess is standing right behind him. Hyping him up. Hyping him up. Touch his butt. As required. Lift him up sometimes when he can't reach things. Thank you.

So, first up, I'd love to welcome into the Triptych Club from Houston, Texas in the United States. It's Eli Fisher. I went fishing and I caught a good one. It's Eli Fisher. Reel him in. That's awesome. And finally, from Mawson Lakes in South Australia, it's Amanda Mullins. Ooh, I've been mulling it over and you know what? I want you to come on down

Amanda! Woo woo woo! Reel it in! Please say that every time. Welcome into the club Amanda and Eli. Make yourselves at home. Well that brings us to the end of the episode. Jess, is there anything we need to tell people before we go? That we love them

and that anybody can suggest a topic. There is a link in the show notes it's also on our website do go on pod.com that's where you can find um all of our podcasts you can um look at pictures of us you can buy merch and you can get tickets to live shows which of course matt and dave have coming up and we also i don't know if we've mentioned on the show yet but we're doing a christmas episode in melbourne yes that's true it's good if we've mentioned on the show yet, but we're doing a Christmas episode in Melbourne. Yes, that's true. It's good that we leave it to the very last second to plug that. But yes, we've got a Christmas show coming up in December.

At Comedy Republic. On the 2nd of December. It's going to be a lot of fun. It was like, I think this is the first time we're mentioning it publicly, but it's already over half sold just from Patreons because they get the pre-sales, as we mentioned. If you want to be involved with the Patreon, you can go to patreon.com slash stugornpod

Now Dave I think that's time to boot this baby home. That's it. Hey, we'll be back next week with another episode. I believe it's my report. The seventh topic on our Blocktober countdown. What could it be? Even bigger than the Tylenol murders. We'll find out next week. I'll be back

and until then I'll say thank you so much and goodbye. Laters. Bye. Real events. Real events. Hey, how hot are women? It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats.

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