Do Go On - 375 - Bette & Joan; A Lifelong Feud

Episode Date: December 28, 2022

Two Hollywood icons and a lifelong feud. This is the story of Bette Davis and Joan Crawford, and their petty feud that lasted a lifetime. This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 01:22 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report). Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodLive show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/  Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/ Check out our new merch! : https://do-go-on-podcast.creator-spring.com/ Stream our 300th episode with extra quiz (and 16 other episodes with bonus content): https://sospresents.com/authors/dogoon Check out our AACTA nominated web series: http://bit.ly/DGOWebSeries​ Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader Thomas Do Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a20666/feud-bette-davis-joan-crawford-timeline/https://black-and-white-movies.com/bette-davis-and-joan-crawford/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Crawfordhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bette_Davis Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serengy Amarna 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnikey and as always I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hello, David. Hi.

Hey Dave, hey Jess. How good is it to be alive? Jess, that really perked me right up. I was feeling flat and then you just sang. As you sang then, my heart fluttered. Wow. In a good way. Oh, right.

It sounds like you should get that checked. Yeah, mine stopped actually. Oh my God, Dave. It has since started. In a good way? In a good way. You're a heart stopper. Thank you.

And that you kill. Is that a good thing or? Yeah. Okay, cool. Oh, great. I feel really good about my vibrato now. I love your vibrato. It's having a bit of fun with my friends.

Hey, Dave, how does this show work that we're doing? What we do here is we take it in terms to report on a topic, often suggested to us by one of the listeners. Go away to the research and then bring that back to the other two who have no idea what the topic's going to be about. And today, Jess, you've done there a report? I have. We always start with a question to get us on the topic. Have you remembered a question, though? I have, and it's great.

My question is, in the 1981 song by Kim Karnes, it mentions which Hollywood icon's famous eyes? Betty Davis. Yes, correct. Great work. Wow. This is a report about Betty Davis's eyes?

No, not quite. It is a report. About Kim Kahn? Not about Kim Kahn either, unfortunately. Her eyes? No. It is a topic suggested by Ian Haynes. And the topic of this week is a feud spanning decades between two Hollywood icons.

Jess and Dave. Betty Davis and Joan Crawford. No. Yes. Cool. A lifelong feud. Really? That's interesting.

It's a little bit of fun. It is petty. It is kind of pathetic in times. Petty or Betty, what is this? Oh my God, that's good. Why didn't I write that down? Petty or Betty? More like petty, Dave, besides.

You can use that later. Thank you, yeah, yeah. I'll get that clean of me saying it. Well, like, moaning Crawford. So it was a moaning. You can use that too. Have a lot of sex. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, man.

Which is fine. We're okay with that. In this year 2022, we're not prudes. No, we're okay with Joan Crawford having sex. Yeah, we're fine with that. Well, let's not forget I am on Team Prude. That's true, sorry, I forget that you are Team Prude. Sorry, it's petty.

It's... Petty Davis Eyes. But it's... You were listing things at this few years. Oh, yeah, it's petty, it's pathetic in parts, it's... Great. It's real Hollywood divas shit. It's a lot of fun.

But I thought to start off, I would give a little bit of a background on the two Hollywood icons. Perfect. You know, I mean, they had such wild and illustrious careers that they're, You could do a topic on both of them, but it would just be like, and then in this year, they made another 20 films because you've got to remember this is back in the day where they were just like churning out movies like it was nobody's business. It was crazy. So yeah, I thought I'd give you a little bit of background on each of them and then kind of get into

where things started to go a little sour. Okay. So born Lucille Faye Lesua. Oh, which ones is going to be? Lucille Lesua. Yeah, Lucille Lesua. That sounds like a Joan to me. That's Betty Dave.

No, it's Joan. That's a Betty Joan. La Seal LeSueur is a great name. Lucille Lesseer. Betty Devers just sounds more made up. Actually, Lucille Lassour sounds way more made up. And you are not the first person to think that. Right.

It sounds like a nickname for a toilet. I've got to visit Lucille Lassure. Yeah, I've got to go pay a visit to my friend Lassil. She's born in San Antonio, Texas in, I think, 1906-ish. Some sources say 1904, others say 1908. Somewhere in that time period. Okay. It's a little contested.

But some say, none say like 1980 or something. No, no, no, no. Definitely was born before that, I think. Do you know these actors, Dave? I know them by name, but I don't know if I could tell you anything they were in. I think I'm pretty similar. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe you would recognize a photo of them. I feel like it was Joan Crawford, Joan Crawford? Was she someone, she have a famous daughter or something? No. In a way, but. No, you might be thinking of like Liza Manelli and her moments. Yeah. So, yeah, that's why I thought I would do a bit of a background on them.

As a child, Crawford, who preferred the nickname Billy, well, she wasn't even Crawford then, Lassua, went by Billy, enjoyed watching Vorterville Acts perform on stage at her stepfather's theatre, the Ramsey Opera House. She had a pretty unstable and rocky childhood to stay the least. Her childhood dream was to be a dancer when she grew up, And one day in an attempt to escape piano lessons, she leapt from the front porch of her home

and cut her foot severely on a broken milk bottle. She had three surgeries to repair the damage and for 18 months was unable to attend elementary school or continue dancing lessons. Wow. But did she have to continue piano lessons? She did have to continue the piano. No, that's awful.

The one thing she didn't want to do. It's just not fair. That's a full-on foot injury. Isn't it? That's a long time out for a cut. It must have been a big gash. I mean, she's a kid and it's like the early night. 1900s. I don't know that their medicine would have been quite as good.

All right, we tried chopping it off. Let's try putting it back on. Let's see what happens. We're holding it there. They get a clamp, just to clamp together for a bit. Sure, right, skin will grow. How does it feel? Is that better? Working your toes? Can you do your little ballet or no? Okay. In 1917, her stepfather, Henry J. Casson, that was accused of embezzlement and was

blacklisted in Lawton, the town in Oklahoma where they'd been living. So they moved to Kansas City, Missouri. and Lucille was sent to St. Agnes Academy. When her mother and stepfather separated and funds ran low, Lucille remained at the school as a work student, which meant she spent more time working than studying. Primarily, she spent her days cooking and cleaning. A work student?

Yeah. It's sort of like, I guess if there's not enough money to pay for tuition, then you've got to earn your keep. Jeez, that's an awful system. Isn't it? I thought they pay you in education. So you like clean a toilet, they're like, all right, chapter one of Janeair.

And the other kids just get to be like, you're in the class of them, and they're already like, oh, we respect you because you're working harder for your education than us. I'm sure that would be. That's exactly how that would go, yeah, I assume. She later attended another school, Rockingham Academy, also as a working student. So her education level was pretty low, but nonetheless, she registered at Stevens College in Columbia, Missouri in 1922. She gave her year of birth as 1906, which would have made her 16, but she could have been 18 or 15. Or somewhere in between.

Or unborn. Or unborn. We still don't know. Whoa. Or undead. Whoa. Vampire. Hello.

Or a zombie. Which ones are the undead ones? Zombies. Oh. The vampires aren't dead. Yeah. Oh. Makes you think.

It does make you think. Holy shit. Whoa. Is your mind just blown? I'm going to need a minute to recover from this. So yeah, she registers at college. She attends college for a couple of months. and then withdrew, feeling like she wasn't quite ready for college.

So she made a move... Because she was 14. She was a little girl. I'm seven. I think I'm ready for college. She made a move towards her childhood dream and began dancing in the chorus of travelling reviews. And she was spotted by producer Jacob J. Schubert,

who put her in the chorus of his Broadway show, Innocent in 1924. And how would this have sounded Jess? Well, Kit! I think I got what it takes. Here, have a cigar I'm seven All right, have three cigars

You're gonna be a star, see? Is that what you wanted, Matthew? That's exactly what I wanted. Straight to Broadway is pretty freaking good. Yeah, in the chorus. I would take that, I would take that any day. I'd prefer that. During this show, she met saxophone player James Welton,

who she apparently married and lived with for several months, but she never mentioned this marriage in her later life, So it's unknown if the two were in fact married at all. What a slap in the face to Welton. How about the records they used to keep? Yeah. If you didn't speak about it, it didn't happen. Yeah.

Wouldn't there be a wedding certificate or something? Maybe. Look, I don't know a lot about Kansas City, big city, Kansas laws. Yeah. I'm a simple. Which is she married in New York City in Broadway? Probably, yeah. Well, I'm not sure.

I'm not used to this. New York man. I'm not used to these big city deals, you know. I'm a simple southern lawyer. Yeah. It doesn't get much more southern than Australia. That's right. It doesn't.

And, you know, in law, you know, what is a lawyer? Oh my God, yeah. Can I, me, right? Is that you open your defense? Your Honor, what is a lawyer? Surely, just a person standing in front of a judge saying things and I'm, am I not doing that now? Your Honor? I rest my cast.

Mr. Stewart, you haven't said anything and you're on trial for murder. Innocent, Your Honor. Thank you. You mispronounced innocent. So she wanted more work than just dancing in the chorus. And so she goes off to get herself a screen test to be in the films. By the end of 1924, she was offered a contract with MGM for $75 a warrant. week.

Hell yeah. $75. A week. A week. What is that in today's money? Like, there's something later... Just like under a thousand probably? That's not bad.

It's good money. Lucille's first role was as a body double for Norma Shearer, one of the MGM's most popular female stars at the time. So you have to take a bullet for her or something? And they did not use proper words. All right, 75 bucks a week. We're going to have to shoot you at least once a week. Are you in?

Great. She had a few roles over the next year or so, some uncredited, and the head of MGM publicity, Pete Smith, recognized that Lucille had the potential to be a big star. You're going to be a star, kid. People kept telling her that. But he felt that her name, Lucille Lesua, sounded fake. Not to mention, it reminded him of a sewer.

Where's he getting that from? I feel like you could just tweak. I would have just tweaked it. But yeah, it does sound pretty fake. Lucille Lassure. It's also quite hard to say. Lucille Lafleur or something? Lucille LeVon.

Oh, Jesus, that's good. Yeah, and these are the first things we thought of. Yeah, give us 25 minutes. You're saying keep Lucille though. Yeah. I like it. And so, like, put yourself in his shoes back in the day. You've got this person, this actress that you're like,

I think you've got what it takes to be a star. And by that, I mean, she's beautiful. And that's not me diminishing her talents just to her look. That is definitely the view of the time. It was like, she's gorgeous. We've got to get her in some movies. Right. So what do you do then if you want to come up with a new name for this actress that you represent?

Oh, you look at things in the room. Okay. Pop plant ceiling. Oh, okay. Ooh, I've heard potty's going to be a big star. Potty. Pottie ceiling. Pottie see?

Maybe you pull out the newspaper. Okay. You look at a couple, first two names you see. Okay. Well, you're in the right kind of ballpark with newspaper. What he did was he organized a conference. in Movie Weekly. Renamed Lucille Lesula.

Well, the contest was called Name the Star. Oh, wow. And she got actor Mick Acta Face. Sadly, it was binding. That does sound like a, yeah, that sounds like a silly way to do it, especially like this sounds fake. Let's publicly come up with a fake name. Exactly.

Surely you just quietly do it. Yeah, it's a bit odd, but readers of the magazine got to suggest and then select her new stage name, and the winning name was... Joan Arden But then it turned out There was already a Joan Arden So they went with Crawford Was that voted on it anyway

Or they just went Oh fuck it Crawford We'll keep Joan obviously The coolest name there is They looked up And as a poster of Shane Crawford The old Hawthorne player

Like Crawford That'll do Now that's a strong name So I don't know if this is real But I saw a tweet Saying Showing the results

Of a popular vote It was like a frog drawing competition and the runner-up was this beautifully drawn frog and the person was just like a stick figure frog and the tweet said something like just underlining the fact that this was a popularly voted on award everyone's just like yeah the stick frog so it's the kind of thing it could definitely be bullshit but you know funny either way it's a bit of fun either way so with the new name, she was ready to be famous and was a little frustrated at the slow rate her career was progressing. So she took it into her own hands and went on a bit of a self-promotion campaign.

She started attending events around Hollywood, dances, often winning dance competitions. Whoa. And there's a quote that's used a lot from MGM screenwriter Frederica Seigomas, who recalled, no one decided to make Joan Crawford a star. Joan Crawford became a star because Joan Crawford decided to become a star. So it sounds like someone did decide it was her. No one decided. No one outside of Joan Crawford.

Yeah, that's not as cool a phrase, is it? Yeah, it's not... That's a good quote. So she's really working for it. Yeah, yeah, she's like networking and she's hustling. Her networking efforts worked and she was cast in the 1925 film, Sally, Irene and Mary, which is where she first really caught the audience's attention. Did she play Sally, Irene or Mary?

All three. Oh, wow. It's a me, myself and I rain. Spinoff. Yeah, I always love hearing old movie names. Just remembering they were all available back then. Yeah. You could have had anything.

There's some pretty fun ones in this. She had several more roles over the next few years and played the romantic lead alongside many of MGM's top male stars. She learned a lot from her colleagues as well, according to this movie website I found, Wikipedia.org. Fantastic. And said she stated that she learned more about acting from watching Lon Cheney's senior work than from anyone else in her career.

And this is a quote from her. It was then, she said, I became aware for the first time of the difference between standing in front of a camera and acting. First time, she was like, okay. This first few movies, she was not any good. She was just standing still. Over here? Okay.

What does that mean? Action. What, something going to happen? Why are you all looking at me? Who are you? What? We met backstage. and you had a different name?

I'm so confused. Why are you saying these funny things to me? What the heck? You had a different name. Your name is John. What? Why are you calling me, Scarless? What, that's not my name?

My name is Joe. Well, it's Lucille. And it was Joan Arden for a little while. There's another Joan Arden. Do you know her? There's a truck over there with snacks. They're giving out lunch to people. She's just freaking out.

And then she finally. really understands what acting is. Yeah, someone whispered in a real. Shai Joan. It's my playing pretend. You pretend. That script that we handed you, you've got to remember those little bits. Oh!

That sounds easy enough. Became one of the biggest stars in Hollywood. Can you believe it? It was her role as Diana Medford in the 1928 silent drama, Our Dancing Daughters, which catapulted her to stardom. The role has, helped her reputation as a symbol of modern 1920-style femininity. From Wikipedia again, a stream of hits following our dancing daughters,

including two more flapper-themed movies in which Crawford embodied for her legion of fans, many of whom were women, an idealised vision of the free-spirited All-American Girl. So she's become a real it girl. She's the Kirsten Dunst of the early 2000s, if you will. Now I understand. So if Bring It On was being casted, Yeah, it would be drone croft.

1930. Yeah. Okay. Joe Crawford, fuck, I want to watch Bring It on again. I'm going to bring it. I'm going to bring it. You got to bring it. I'm going to watch it and I'm going to bring it.

It's broad. Okay. Oh, it's brung. Crawford had the foresight that silent movies would one day be a thing of the past, and she was aware that her southern accent might hinder her career opportunities. So she tirelessly practiced diction and elocution, locking herself in her room with newspapers, magazines and books to read aloud. When she came to a word she didn't know, she'd look it up in the dictionary and repeat it over and over and over again until she had it right.

And this really paid off. After the release of the Jazz Singer in 1927, the first feature-length film with some audible dialogue. Oh, wow, I love the sour. It adds so much to the film. It was just a bit of scatting. No, not scat. Oh, sorry. What's scatting?

All right, no, I'm... Is that the one with trumpets? In a way. In a way. So after the jazz singer, sound films became all the rage. The transition from silent to sound caused panic for many, if not all, involved in the film industry. Many silent film stars found themselves unemployable because of their undesirable voices. What do you mean?

I can't be in the movie. And hard to understand accents. You can play Mickey Mouse, though. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Oh, hi. Well, simply because they just refuse to make the transition to talkies. I will never speak on camera.

It's a fan. It's a fan. It won't last. People like the sound of silence. Many studios and stars avoided making the transition for as long as possible, especially MGM, who was one of the last major studios to switch over to sound. Crawford made a successful transition to talkies with her first. starring role in the all-talking feature-leg film Untamed in 1929.

All talking or walking. All gojopin and lorpen. Is that anything? Untamed. I love it. That's the tagline of Untamed. Is that anything? Oh, are you still writing that down?

One critic noted that while Crawford seemed nervous at making the transition to sound, she'd become one of the most popular actresses in the world. Whoa. She's a big star. Meanwhile, over to our other, you know, our other... Character. Subject is what I asked.

Character. Bear. Our other bear. Our other bear. Meanwhile, Ruth Elizabeth Davis, nicknamed from early childhood as Betty, which was B-E-E W-E W-E-W-Y then. See, hers sounds like the more made-up name.

Betty Davis? Joan Crawford just sounds like a, you know, like a real boring name. Betty Davis somehow feels made up. Does it? Betty Davis. But maybe it's just because I know Betty Davis is like a superstar name. Yeah, but like, because, you know, you think her name would just be Elizabeth Davis. Ruth Elizabeth Davis.

That's such a plain name. Yeah, that's true. And Betty is a shortening of Elizabeth, which is her middle name. All right, you've got me. You caught me in a lie. I was also, I think I was thinking of Joan Collins before. Who, um, yeah. Because, yeah, when you said 9-106, I'm like, wow, she lived into my lifetime,

but she probably didn't. Or maybe she did, I guess. No. I mean, of course, my lifetime has. Many lifespast, that. Canonically, you're as old as the wind. I'm a little older than the wind. I remember the day the wind was born.

Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Wow, what was it like before wind? Oh, very still. Yeah, been quite quiet. Yeah, but then when wind's mum, yeah, pushed it out. Yeah.

I pushed out a week. Yeah, the very first quefe. A beautiful thing. And thus the wind was born. And we think... I've never seen Dave look like that. I've never seen Dave's regret face at something you've said. It's great.

It is so great. Are you jealous you didn't come up with it? Yeah, I'm going stupid stupid. Idiot. For the listeners, Dave had his head in his hands. Yeah, he was sort of pinching the bridge of his nose. He looked in distress. He was pained.

He hated it. Walk us through what you were feeling there, Dave. I don't know. It just stopped me in my tracks. Yeah. It absolutely stopped me on my tracks. Yeah. The wind was quefed down.

Oh, dearie me. It made me laugh. It really did. It just called me by surprise in the best possible way. If that was what you look like when you're laughing, I've never seen you laugh before. Yeah, I don't know what. I don't know what we've seen.

You shock me. You shock me. I think you could just tell him the truth. And then you hated it and you were disappointed. No, I'm not disappointed. I'm not disappointed. Not disappointed. Just mad.

Yeah. Just thinking, I'm going to have to tell Jess to edit that out. I'm going to have to have a, we'll have to have an. I'm eating about that. Yeah. You can't say queve, mate. We have two rules. No C words, no cue words.

All right. All right, mate. Okay, Betty Davis. I'm queuing out the sea right now. Is what Wynn's mom said. I'm grabbing my nose again. But people call her Betty a whole life. Betty, yes.

But with a Y. That's important. It's not that important. She was born in April of 1908 in Laositz. Right. Does Joan lie about her age so she can be younger than Betty? It's maybe possible. Her parents separated in 1915 and her mother moved to New York, leaving Betty to attend a boarding school, Cushing Academy,

in Ashburnham, Massachusetts. Sounds fun Cushing Academy. That sounds nice. It does sound nice. I don't think she was a working student. I think she was just a student there. Okay. So that's nice. I'm already on board with the first one. Joan.

Joan. Okay. I'm taking side. Daly, Dave, who you? Who's so? I'll take Betty. Yeah, probably a good call. Big fan.

No, that's not. Nobody is. Nobody is. Nobody comes off too well. No, nobody is like the clear villain. Right. Or clear winner, but I sort of, I kind of side with one of them more than the other,

but we'll see. I wonder which one. When she was 17, Betty, who by now had changed the spelling of her name to B-T-E, but still Betty. Is that for a reason? Well, it was just based off a novel by a French author. There was, I think, a character.

With a Betty with an E. Yeah. Okay. Which was probably like Bet or something. It would have been something in French. It wouldn't have been Betty, but she's like, I'll just take that. I have heard people pronounce it as Bet Davis before, so they're wrong when they're saying that. I and you know what?

I'm basing Betty Davis off the song. Yes. It is Betty Davis. I'm sure it's Betty Davis. Especially as a child, she was B-E-D-Y. She's got Bet Davis size. Doesn't work. Yeah.

Why would they lie to us through song? Yeah, Kim wouldn't do that. Kim wouldn't do that. Kim wouldn't do that. Kim would never do that to us. How dare you, Dave. I know, I agree. She'll one hit wonder, Kim Carnes?

Hmm? She'll one hit wonder? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. I had to look up who sang the song before, so I'm guessing, probably. I'm so sorry, Jess.

Please do go on. No, hey, never apologise. Well, sometimes you should apologise. So, yeah, she's 17, and Betty saw a production of Enric Ibson's The Wild Duck starring Blanche Yerker and Peg Entwistle. From the Hollywood Sign episode. Yes. Did you not remember that because you did that episode.

Yes, no, I absolutely remembered the name, but I was thinking, where's that from, where's that from? Peg Entwistle. We talked about on our web series. Yeah. She can watch the Hollywood Sign Report. Well, Davis later recalled the reason I wanted to go into theatre was because of an actress named Peg Entwistle. Right.

Wow. She was really inspired by her, which is kind of crazy because Peg Entwistle was like 17 when she appeared in this play. So they're roughly the same age. Yeah. So it's kind of cool that she was such an inspiration

to someone her own age. Very cool. In fact, after a few years of small roles, often in the chorus, in 1929, Davis was chosen by Blanche Yerker to play Hedwig, the character she had seen Entwistle play in the Wild Duck. So she's inspired by Peg Entwistle

and a few years later is playing the same role. It's kind of cool. Right. And things Sally didn't work out too well for Peggy Interest. No, that's right. No, she, yeah, because she filmed some lesbian love scenes or something, and then they all got cut out of the film. Yeah, anyway, you can listen to that episode.

But yeah, I think that was something like that. She made the transition to film, and back in the day it wasn't really quite the done thing, was it? Although all of these actors do it, so I'm really sure. Yeah, she was sort of blacklisted or something. Yeah, I've only got very vague memories. Me too. We should go watch that web series because it's a fantastic series. Oh, fantastic.

Actor Award nominated. And we look beautiful in it. Oh, yeah. So young, so fresh. Didn't know a pandemic was coming. Oh, so beautiful. So Betty made her Broadway debut that same year in Broken Dishes and Solid South. Two separate plays.

Broken Dishes, that's a good one. Okay, and Solid South. So after some theatre success, she moved to Hollywood in 1930. Unlike Joan Crawford, Betty starred in Hollywood was a little slower and marked by some early disappointments. She failed her first screen test but was used in... Failed. She failed it.

Get out of here. Yuck! They put the floor drops and you just go into like a bin. Just with all the other uggos. But she was hired essentially to be used in other people's screen tests for Universal Studios. So other actors

would come in for screen tests and she would sort of act alongside them. But off screen. Yeah. We don't want to see you. Yuck. In fact, we don't want to really hear you. Just be quite quiet. And just say your lines.

After another failed screen test, the head of Universal Studios was about to terminate her employment. But cinematographer Carl Froon, Frund, Frundt, Frundt told him... That's a long surname. Frund, Frund. It's a different time, man. I like it. Hiphonated or double hyphanet of it?

I just had to write it out phonetically. Right. This is all the while I was just to mash into the keyboard. He told the head of Universal that she had lovely eyes and would be a good fit for bad sisters. Wow. I heard he said that she had Betty Davis eyes. Well, they came to be known that later.

Yeah, he coined that term. And she said, whoa, that's my name. He said, what? What? That's your what? That's your what? That's your what? Ah, yes.

Betty Davis eyes. So were they looking for someone with hot eyes? eyes for this movie? Yeah, hot eyes. That was what the script said. She had red eyes, so they were hot. So yeah, Bad Sisters, 1931, was her film debut. The film ended up being a flop, and her next film role was so small it gained little

to no attention. After another year and six unsuccessful films, she was dumped by Universal Studios, who chose not to renew her contract. So she's having a bit of a rougher time. With no prospects and a couple years of flops under her belt, she was considering moving to New York, back

the theatre. A couple of years of flops under her belt. Yes? It's beautifully put. Thank you. Very vivid. Thank you. I'm a writer.

I've got a couple of years of flops under his belt as well. Right now. Because of Dave's failed movie career. I think you're moving back to New York. It's not very nice of you to bring that up all the time. That he's a failure. He's doing his best. He's doing his best.

That's right. It's not good. No, his best isn't good enough. But it's his best. Exactly. He's failed a few screen tests. Yeah. One time I auditioned.

for a Lee Wanell Hollywood movie. Did you? Did not get the part. Which movie was it? That one where... Robots and stuff? Yeah, robots and stuff. And they filmed it down like Melbourne highways and stuff.

I'm like, whoa. Yeah, what's it called? That was good, good movie. You enjoyed that? Yeah, I liked it. Which did you get? Do you think it would have been better? I think I'm playing the weird scientist.

It was like, they wanted like a, you know, an interesting looking person. That's right. And then they cast like some, you know, punk. Is it? That's what you meant? That's, sorry, we meant Hollywood interesting. Yeah, really, it's just so like that. Not down at World Warville shopping center.

Okay, okay, okay. You walk in, they're like, ah! Yeah, seriously, the screen test was failed. No, thank you. So yeah, she's like, well, maybe I'll go back to New York. But actor George Arlis chose her for the lead female role in the Warner Brothers picture, the man who played God. Where were you, Arles, when I was failing?

You don't have beautiful eyes. Wait, what? You always bang on about how beautifully his eyes are. Don't you say that because I also bang on about how beautiful your eyes are. Well, I don't know if that is relevant here, Your Honor. I'm just a humble southern lawyer. You're just a humble... But I want to bring you to your words.

Yeah, I love both of your eyes. But they're not on the level of Betty Davis. Is that what you were saying? No! I think that's fine. That's okay. Okay, Matt, let me put it to you this way. Has anybody written a song about your eyes?

Well, we don't know what Kim Kahn's been up to. Yeah. She's probably written songs, but plenty of eyes. He's got Matt Stewart eyes. I feel like we've got nice eyes, but not Hollywood nice eyes. You know what I mean? You haven't got Bradley Cooper Peepers, you know what I mean? Like Dave's got a weird look, but not a Hollywood weird look.

Exactly. There's scales to these things. That's right. You watch the A team and tell me Bradley Cooper. but doesn't have some of the most beautiful eyes you've ever seen in your life. Okay. Do I have to watch The A-Team? It's a great film.

It's a lot of fun. Is it? Yeah. I've watched an episode of this show, and it was one of the worst things I've ever said. You don't watch the show. Watch the movie. Liam Neeson. Matt, watches exclusively Mark Warburg-based films now.

It just kept happening on the plane. He just kept turning to me going, he's in it again. I watched five films. Did you watch Uncharted? Was that one of us? Yes, that was one of them. That's a good play movie. I watch five films.

Uh-huh. And I didn't know he was in any of them. He was in four of them. He's in everything, that guy. It was so weird. I could believe it. One time Dave was asleep when the fourth one came on, and I almost woke him up and told him.

Look at this. Look, he's here again. Let me just, I just want to double check one thing, though. You didn't do our plain tradition with Dave, did you, of starting a movie at the same time? No, I didn't do that. Oh, God. That's our thing. That's your thing.

No, we did do the tradition of Matt cracking it when the announcements come on. He hates it so much. So annoyed at when you... Just his whole... You watch his whole body just flop. He's like, fuck. Two minutes into a thing. And of course, you know, we're on Etty had, so it comes in English, 10 seconds later.

Then the same announcement in Arabic. Yeah. And Matt's furious all over again. I get it. Look, I get it. You get it, but you hate it. I'm sort of playing it up a little bit now. But it is...

I just don't... I just feel like it should be optional. Yeah. Unless it's laugh or death stuff. Yeah. Optional. You don't need to... need to hear if they're just talking to the crew.

Yeah, exactly. Why are you pausing my movie to tell the crew that they can go sit down now? I don't care what altitude we're flying at. I can see that on the information section. I can also see what the local time is. How long until arrival? I don't need to be reminded every four hours. The temperature at the destination, what am I going to do about it now?

It's irrelevant until five minutes before we land. I'm not there for 14 hours. Yeah. It'll probably change. I don't care. Yeah, I get it, I get it. Anyway, so she makes her lead female role in the man who played God in 1932. The Saturday Evening Post wrote,

She's not only beautiful, but she bubbles with charm. And Warner Brothers signed her to a five-year contract, and she remained at the studio for the next 18 years. So finally, she's broken into Hollywood. She's getting a bit of recognition. She's got a contract. She's good. After more than 20 film roles, she earned her first critical acclaim

for her role of Mildred Rogers in the 1934 film of Human Bondage. Many actresses feared playing unsympathetic characters, and several had refused the role, but Davis viewed it as an opportunity to show the range of her acting skills. Her co-star, Leslie Howard, was initially dismissive of her, but as filming progressed, his attitude changed, and he subsequently spoke highly of her abilities. Which is nice of him, isn't it?

Hmm. Here we go. Oh, here we go. Another lady having a go at acting. She's going to stand in front of a camera. Oh, hang on a second. She's acting. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. She's acting. She's doing it. So, yeah, I can see. So she had to really fight for a career. Yeah. It's interesting because Joan was having a fight for an education.

Yeah. But Betty was having a fight for a career. So, yeah. But, yeah, I was. I found this so fun. I was listening to David Spade and Dana Carvey's podcast recently. And they were... What a combo.

Yeah, they were bemoaning that people don't want to work hard to get into Hollywood anymore. I like, mainly, it was mainly David Spade. I'm like, David Spade. How hard did you work? And I was saying this to Dave. And you looked it up and he got SNO and he was like 22 or something. Yeah, he was casting as not at 22. Oh, so, yeah, so that I'd struggle like you did back then.

I had two years of comedy clubs. Can you believe that? No one's willing to do that anymore. Yeah, it's so, I always find it so funny when people get the rose-colored glasses and it's Aldrin, you're like, it's not that much has changed in terms of how much younger people work. Yeah. You know, there's always going to be people who work harder than others and other things,

a bunch of reasons for this. Opportunities come up for some people. Casting are looking for something incredibly specific. Yeah, but not this specific apparently. Yeah. Oh, it was really, they're not looking for a white, short, blonde man with floppy hair who plays the same character every time. Oh, it's tough for me.

Yeah, it's just, I mean, I enjoy his work and stuff, but it was, yeah, it's like pretty out of touch when you start talking like that. They don't want to work anymore. These kids these days. They're always trying to take the shortcuts. He wasn't, I don't think, I can't remember what he said. I had to turn it off. I was finding it so frustrating.

It's sufferable. But, yeah. imagine sort of like they're all just trying to make it via TikTok or whatever it's like yeah because the world's changed people using the things that like you know what at hand yeah you didn't have TikTok that's why you didn't use it no what I mean you had TV and that was it now nobody watches TV so shut up you know what I mean but he did it after he left S&L I think it was months before he got a star roll on a sitcom so holy shit oh my gosh and in those months he worked so Oh my God.

I take everything back. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to be so disrespectful. Nah, good on him. Such a hard worker. So yeah, she's her co-style Leslie Howard. He's speaking highly of her. As did critics, Life magazine published that she gave,

probably the best performance ever recorded on the screen by a US actress. That's big. Best performance ever. Yeah. That is big. I can't. I'm, yeah, I'm just shocked. I know.

So does this being she built? We've never seen anything better. Really? Yep. What about the bad guy from speed? Oh, Dennis Hopper. He's good. Incredible.

That's good. That's true. Beats out that. Apparently. The hop? I don't make the rules, mate. Okay. No, no, that's fair.

And it's also a US actress. Okay. That sort of discounts him. Okay. But if it didn't discount him, he wouldn't be discounted. Yes. Or probably something Steve Bershamper. Maybe start with something.

Yeah, what a guy. What a guy. Now that guy's Hollywood interesting, looking. If they want to make a Young Bishims, I will play that role. Yes, you would be great at that. For the listeners, Dave has occasionally been likened to Steve Bishimi. Occasionally. The funniest one is when you got the nickname at the project, I thought.

Have you ever told that story on the pod? Surely. What? I don't reckon I'll remember you to say that. Oh, second day on the project. Which is a TV show in Australia Yeah, that was working on in production Brand new job

Brand new job Fuck Never worked in a TV office for One of the guys Who went on to be a great friend of mine Came up to me And said, We've worked out who you look like

And I said, Is it Steve Bishimi? And he goes, Yeah, It is actually And then another guy I go, overhears that

And he looks like Bechamel And because they Overheard that Let's call him Bechamel Someone said, No, let's call him Cheese sauce

No, let's call him cheese. And I was like, this will never stick. And then I worked there for six more years and that was my nickname. Cheese. Cheese. I reckon I only heard that recently. Yeah, I did not know that.

Yeah, just to... Cheese. Around the office, I was cheese. Are you happy with that nickname? Yeah, it really grew on me. Okay. Oh, yeah, that's nice. And I also like cheese.

I like cheese. And on Fridays, they'd bring out, they used to bring out a cheese platter. Oh, that's nice. Drink trolley would come around, the cheese and I'd hone into the cheese. And a lot of people that started after that thought I was nickname cheese because of how it enthusiastic I was about cheese. I'd be like, ooh, blue. Blue!

But, yeah, the reason was, yeah, someone had misheard, Bashimi is Bechamel. It's quite a bad mishearing as well. Beshmael, what? So, her performance in of human bondage is getting lots of really great praise. And from Wikipedia, it says, When Davis was not nominated for an Academy Award of Human Bondage, the Hollywood Citizens News questioned the omission.

and Norma Shearerer, herself a nominee, joined a campaign to have Davis nominated. Wow. This is the role that was the best of all time? Yeah. Yeah, so it feels like it should be nominated for that year. Yeah, it's amazing. There's not. This prompted an announcement from the Academy President, Howard Estherbrook,

who said that under the circumstances, any voter may write on the ballot his or her personal choice for the winners. No. Thus allowing, for the only time in the Academy's history, the consideration of a candidate not officially nominated for, an award. Incredible. Really strange. Whatever, write whoever you want.

Just write, okay? Just write it on there. I wish we could do that for like Prime Minister. And then we could make Tom Gleason or something? Yeah, he'd get it behind that. He'd get it. Campaign, it'd be fun. Another tidbit I thought was interesting was this one about her first marriage.

Davis's first marriage was to Harmon Oscar Nelson on August 18, 1932. Their marriage was scrutinized by the press. his $100 a week earnings, which is about $1,800 in 2020, compared unfavorably with Davis's reported $1,000 a week, like $18,000. Davis addressed the issue in an interview pointing out that many Hollywood wives earn more than their husbands,

but the situation proved difficult for Nelson, who refused to allow Davis to purchase a house until he could afford to pay for it himself. Oh my God, mate. If my partner wanted to just outright buy a house, I wouldn't be like, man, man, man, man. Wait for,

I'll do it. I'll do it. It's all right. No, no, no. I'd be like, go for it. You're absolute fool. I'll buy the cushions. So, yeah.

But here's a different time. It's a different time. Yeah, she's got lots of money, but don't worry. She's not allowed to spend it. Yeah, don't worry about it. So you can only spend what I spend. So actually less than me. She spends $1 less than me per week.

We're living off my $100 wage. Which is $1,800 is pretty good. I think he's making all right money. Yeah, but she's, She's making a lot more. Anyway, so a year after of human bondage, she played a down-and-out troubled actress in Dangerous. So this is in 1935.

E. Arnott Robertson wrote in Picture Post, I think Betty Davis would probably have been burned as a witch if she'd live two or 300 years ago. She gives the curious feeling of being charged with power which can find no ordinary outlet. Right. Was she playing a witch in the movie? Absolutely not.

Okay. I was going to say, I think this man has mistaken... But she was. be a character for a person's change. She was casting spells though. Yeah. So I think I misheard before. So she was going to buy the house and her husband said no.

No. No, it was, the husband was going to buy the house and she said no. No, no, she was, her husband wouldn't allow her to buy a house because they had to wait until he could afford to buy the house, even though she's making 10 times more than him. Yeah, that is a different time. Different time. We will sleep on the street until like a.

afford it. She's like, I've got so much money. It's fine. I could buy a house outright, a nice one. I'm the bread winner in this house, meaning I buy the bread. You get the rest. You get the rest. Thank you. Love you. You cannot afford the macadamia spread. I'm so sorry. I love it. Please get it. And I'm buying the cheapest bread we can possibly get. Oh God, it's awful. If you want better bread, you're going to have to chip in. If you could buy a separate bread that's good, at least I can tell people I'm the bread winner. I won the bread in a raffle.

I'm taking the saying very literally. So yeah, for her performance in Dangerous, she received her first ever Academy Award nomination and win. Oh. Taking home the best actress Oscar that year. By the way, she claims to have been the one to coin the nickname Oscar because it's posterior resembled that of her husband, whose middle name was Oscar.

Oh, I vaguely remember this from the Academy Award episode. We talk about it? The Academy of Motion Pictures, Arts and Science officially has a different version of the story. And also, no one ever called her husband Oscar. So it was a bit confusing. But yeah, she's like... Interesting. I do remember there being something about the ass looks like my husband's ass.

Yeah, that brings a vague bell. I think it's episode seven or something. Yeah, it's a long time ago. I don't remember shit. I don't remember anything. I remember last week. People tweet to us and they're like, ah, I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I love it.

I love it too, no. I'm often baffled. I'm baffled. I'm not saying you don't love it. I'm saying I love it even more. That's true. But I'll agree to. You love it quite a lot as well.

Yeah. That's how much I love it more. But you win the Oscar for loving it the most. No, yeah, especially when we record ahead of time. Yeah. People message about something and I like, I don't know what this is, but I love it. Yeah, people have been, and this is probably going back quite a while now because, again, we are ahead. But people have been talking about how I said water in something.

Oh, yeah, that was in the. Woodstock episode. I don't remember water. You were saying the American water and the British water. Woha. People, when we... When Matt and I were in the UK people were coming up to us saying, water. Water.

What? Well, they were, they thought we were waiters. Yeah, they were snapping their fingers in our faces. Water. At first, we said we don't work here in the end. We were sparkling or still. Yeah, absolutely. We really got into it.

We made a lot of tips. We're very friendly. And they're not a big tipping country. No. Country, so that's how good we were. Okay, I'll go back and listen because I have no idea what they're talking about, but they're loving it. Water.

Because they couldn't, water wasn't available at that woodstock or something. That was a reason for it. And you just started saying water. It was fun. Water. What a fun person I am. Now we're all drinking water because we're talking about it. That's also quite hot in this room.

So that brings us to the early 1930s. Both Joan Crawford and Betty Davis are two of the biggest names in Hollywood. One is already very established and the other is on the rise. Now you might think that these two peers could be friends. Of course. I'd like to think so. But the first incident of tension between the two occurred in 1933. Davis had reached an exciting and pivotal moment in her career.

The comedy ex-lady was going to be the first time her name would feature above the title. It would be Betty Davis in Ex-Lady. It's a big deal. Betty Davis is Ex-Lady. Is X-Lady. Superhero film? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, x-ray vision, but a woman.

What? It's crazy. All right, cancel the movie. It's too much. Yeah, it's going to buy people's mind. Yeah, she can't have x-ray vision until I can have x-ray vision. Warner Brothers had planned an elaborate publicity campaign to really drive home Davis's new phase of stardom. Nothing could destroy this buzz and publicity.

That is, except for maybe news about a more established, more famous star. On the same day that Betty Davis's publicity campaign kicked off, Joan Crawford announced her divorce from Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Their marriage was very high profile. Douglas's parents were Hollywood royalty. And so the news of their split was big news. And it far overshadowed the publicity around Betty's new film. How dare she get divorced on the same day that I release a movie?

I thought it was going to be like a calculated thing. Well, maybe it was. Maybe she's like, ah, I'll sacrifice this wedding for the... Yeah, she purposely, she's like, What's going to get their attention? We'll have to have to have to divorce. Sorry, Doug. Writings about ex-lady were pushed to the review section of the New York Times

while they dedicated several pages to reporting on the divorce. The review section, oh, that's basically death. Well, as a result of this publicity bust, ex-lady was dropped from theatres after a week. Oh, actually killed the movie. Thanks to poor ticket sales. People just didn't know it was on. Yeah.

It was just completely destroyed. So Davis's anger was born. But it was just the beginning. That was a small thing. You're right. Maybe it wasn't premeditated. How could it be? In 1935, Davis starred in the drama Dangerous and fell hard for her co-star, Franchot Tone.

I've never, I didn't actually look up how to say his name. Franchot, Franchet. Franchet. Tone. I had a similar thing recently because I watched for Christmas, I watched Falling for Christmas, a rom-com starring Lindsay Lohan. And I was so. Masterpiece.

So excited when I looked up the cast and the co-stars name was Chaud overstreet. But it turns out it's a chord. It's still bad. It took me, I enjoyed that for a few days before I found it. I've been telling people. Chaud. Chaud. Do you remember me losing my mind recently about Ray Fines?

I'm like, it's Ralph. His name is Ralph Fides. Ralph! Anyway, so yeah, I get it. Yeah. Chord is fantastic. Cod is pretty bad. It's terrible.

Yeah, I think because it clearly says cord, but I'm like, cord's not a name. Yeah. It must be Chord. Yeah, I'll try and salvage a name out of this. Chord. With apologies to any Chords listening. Sorry, Chords.

So Davis is in the film Dangerous, and she falls head over heels for her co-star, Franchet. I fell in love with Franchet. Professionally and privately, she said, everything about him reflected his element. from his name to his manners. Franchet Tone. But during the filming of Dangerous, Tone announced his engagement to Joan Crawford.

No. What? She took her man. No. From an article in Harper's Bazaar. He was madly in love with her, Davis said. They met each day for lunch. He would return to the set, his face covered in lipstick.

He was honoured this great star was in love with him. I was jealous, of course. Crawford, meanwhile, is quoted as saying. that Tone thought Betty was a good actress but never thought of her as a woman. Oh. That's a woman. So, catty.

So he's returning to set every day, face covered in lipstick. Hair and makeup are freaking out. They're like, for fuck sake. Tone, come on. Come on, man. Not we're going to start again. I got to keep continuity. That's a nightmare.

You're a pain in the ass. So so far, it's like if she, if this is what's kicked it off, it doesn't feel like Joan's done anything wrong so far. stealing a man that Betty had dibs on yeah dibs are for real mad not even recognizing that Betty is a woman you can put dibs on people and nobody else is allowed to have them I didn't realize that

oh no I should have learned that because in a recent Brendan Fraser movie we watched for phrasing the bar the boy called dibs on a woman Journey to the Center of the Earth The little boy Josh Hutchison Brendan Fraser's nephew I had a crush on him in the Hunger Games era. Really?

Did you call dibs? Oh yeah, I called dibs. That's why he's alone forever until I'm ready for him. Called dibs. Debs. In an interview like 50 years later, Betty Davis was still bitter about this. She took him from me, Davis allegedly told a reporter in 1987. I called Debs.

More like bitter, Davis. All right, you can use that later as well. I probably wasn't. What is this late are you talking about? When we get to the podcast? We start recording. This is a dress rehearsal. Yeah, there's a warm up.

She did it coldly, deliberately and with complete ruthlessness. What do you mean? Did she know that you liked him? Oh my God. Guys. I need both of you to listen because I do not want to have to explain this again. Okay. Sorry, sorry.

Betty called dibs. Oh, no, you did say that, yes. You did say that, sorry. Betty had a crush on a guy, didn't do anything about it. Okay? She had a crush on him. She was in love with him. Both professionally and emotionally.

That's right. His name, elegant. Manners, elegant. Joan swans in takes him. That's against the girl code. Okay. Girls don't do that to one another. Well, that's the problem, though, isn't it, Betty?

Because you're a girl. Joan is a woman. It does not see you as such. What also stings is that Betty Davis won her first Oscar for her performance in Dangerous. No, it wasn't her first. Oh yes, it was. Yet once again, Crawford stole the attention and upstaged her because then there was the high profile romance.

Really? So has Joan won any Academy Awards yet? No. Betty, come on. You're doing pretty well in that respect. In fact, at the award ceremony, Betty had assumed she wasn't going to win and wore a fairly plain navy blue dress, I think out of spite because she didn't want to go but Jack Warner was making her go

but she won and from that Harper's Baza article again says when her name was read out legend has it that tone got up and embraced her while his now wife Crawford refused to budge and kept her back to Davis after tone called her out for being rude Crawford supposedly turned to Davis

and said with a sneer Dear Betty what a lovely frock I'm just so petty and so bitchy I just won the award oh what a nice frock Where was this though? Was it this?

It was at the Academy Awards. So they thought she should have gone up on stage. Like everyone, where would she have congratulated her at the time? Surely it's a quick thing and they're walking up onto the stage. Yeah, true. They probably would have been sitting at the same table. Same table. I will defend Joan to the death.

Well, I'm team Betty and that frock was nice. You haven't been very team Betty. I love her. I love dibs. Okay, well, then I take that back then. You love her. Sorry, I didn't realize you loved her. Sorry, rather.

She's clearly the better performer. Dave, your love language is it sort of being a bit of a bitch? Yeah, yeah, it's nagging. They, yes, they're very petty, and it wasn't long, it wasn't long until their rivalry and hatred of each other was pretty well known in Hollywood. Love that. By the late 1930s, though, Crawford's popularity was declining. She co-starred opposite her husband, a Franchet tone for the seventh time.

What an elegant name. I don't even care if I'm saying it wrong. It's probably a Franker or something and I'm like, Franchet. It sounds like some sort of a tool, you know. Franchet tone. Yeah, like a rancher. I'll hand us the Frenchet tone, would you? Hands us the Franchet.

The tone, yeah. It's going to get the Frenchet tone. And they're in seven movies together, you said. Yeah. Incredible. Let's figure out how to say his name. Should I have done this before? No, it's funny to Franchet.

Surely. F-R-A-N-C-H-O-T. Yeah. His first name was... Oh, his name is actually Stanislaus Pascal Frenchet-Tone. Holy shit. How do you say your name? How to pronounce Frenchet-Ton.

Francho. Franchot-Tone. That sounds good. Can I keep calling him Franchet, though? Yeah, for sure. Can we all agree, it is, just for listeners, it is Franchot. but I'm going to keep calling him French it He doesn't come up that much more

That sounds a bit like a rapper though It's the other pronouncingation Franchotone Franchotone Going home for example Matt's pitching his nose Oh come on All right wind quefe

Yeah Matt Hey I thought this was a symbol Of thinking it was really funny and good It just really hit me Yeah I'm Frenchotone And I'm Going home.

You're like, I love that. You're like a politician from the 80s doing a rap to get reelected or something. That's what that sounds like. So she co-starred opposite her husband, Franchett, for the seventh time, in the Bride Wall Red, 1937. The film was generally unfavorably reviewed by major critics. It also ran a financial loss becoming one of MGM's biggest failures of the year. Of the year, okay. Next year will be better?

Yeah, next year. Nah, it wouldn't though, because in May of 1938, Harry Brandt, president of the independent Theatre Owners Association of America, published an open letter in the Independent Film Journal in which he referred to a number of big stars, including Greta Garbo, Norma Shearer, John Barrymore, Catherine Hepburn, Fred Astaire and Joan Crawford

as box office poison. Whoa. Essentially, he said that while these stars had unquestioned dramatic abilities, their high salaries did not reflect in their ticket sales, thus hurting the movie exhibitors involved. It's sort of a trickle-down thing. The actors are getting paid so much money.

It's costing so much money to make the film because of those high salaries, then it's costing theaters more to be able to put the film on, but ticket sales aren't high enough to actually cover those costs. So he says the combined salaries of these stars takes millions out of the industry and millions out of the box office. We're not against the star system, mind you, but we don't think it should dominate the production of pictures. I love it.

If that's taking it out of the industry, by paying actors. When's it not going out of the industry? Surely it's always going to somebody. Yeah, I guess so. But like, yeah, when the actors have such high paying contracts. Right. They're getting...

They're getting like proportionally so much. Yeah, right. I didn't realize that was... I thought they were always quite poorly paid until relatively recently. No, it seems like these guys were getting really well paid. I've heard of a bunch of those, well. Greta Garbo. Yeah, I just picked out the ones you might have heard of...

Fred Astaire. Yep. Joan Crawford, you heard of... Joan Crawford, Norma Shears. John Barrymore? No, I don't know John Barrymore. Do you know Drew Barrymore? Yes, but that's not John.

I didn't realize that Drew Barrymore was like a product of a Hollywood family. I think they nearly all are. Yeah, true. It's like, I don't think you can get work over there unless pretty much you were born into it. Yeah, but if you ask them, they've had to work way harder. So that's the whole thing going around at the moment. Oh, no, you've got to work even harder. Look, I understand what you're saying, but also, shut up.

You're telling me? You personally. Is David Spade's birth name Barrymore? Crawford had several roles over the next couple of years. Some earned her praise from critics, but nearly all were box office flops. Meanwhile, by this time, Betty Davis was Warner Brothers' most profitable star, and she was given the most important of their female leading roles. She had her pick, really.

Her image was considered with more care. Although she continued to play character roles, she was often filmed in close-ups that emphasized her distinctive eyes. You can still be playing, you know, gritty characters, but you've got to look hot while you're doing it. Like 90 minutes of eye shots. Yeah, she played a lot of cat burglars wearing balaclavas. No one knew what her face looked like.

But those eyes. All those eyes. The 1940 film All This and Heaven Two. Is that two movies? No. All this, comma, and Heaven Two. That's great. Oxid comma.

Was the most financially successful film of Davis's career to that point. So she's on the rise. Both women had fascinating and dramatic lives over the next few years. It's all very old Hollywood. And I'm mentioning these things because they're relevant later. In 1940, Joan Crawford adopted her first child, a daughter. And because she was single, California law prevented her from adopting within the state. So she arranged the adoption through an agency in Vegas.

The child was temporarily called Joan until Quarthe. Crawford changed her name to Christina. Crawford then married actor Philip Terry on July 21, 1942, after a six-month courtship. What happened to our mate? Yeah, she's dropping husbands at that center. He's gone. Tone's gone. So who's then you go? Philip. Together the couple adopted a son, who they named Christopher, but his birth mother reclaimed the child.

So then they adopted another boy who they named Philip Terry Jr. And when their marriage ended in 1946, Crawford changed the child. that child's name to Christopher Crawford. What? It's so baffling. Was there already Christopher? No. So they adopted a son who, they named him Christopher, and then that child got taken back.

Right. So they adopted another kid named him Philip after their dad. Then the parents split up. So mom's like, well, you're not named after him anymore. You're named after your brother that I had for a while? Yeah. Isn't that baffling? And how old would the kid have been?

Like, old enough that you can't rename a child. Yeah, I don't know when they... Like one. It's a bit strange. We're rebranding. Sorry, sir. We're going to read. We're rebranding.

Your name is Christopher now. You're Christopher now. Okay. I don't know how old I'll do it. I think but he was young. In 1943, Joan Corford signed a three movie deal with Warner Brothers for $500,000. Whoa.

Half a million bucks. Whoa. Hang on a second. By that time, Betty Davis had been with Warner Brothers for a decade, and Crawford demanded a dressing room adjacent to Davises. Apparently, she sent gifts and flowers to Betty's dressing room, all of which were returned. So she's trying to make nice. Potentially, yeah.

It's hard to say whether it's mind games or trying to sort of, you know, be friendly. Crawford had her eyes on the title role in the 1945 film Mildred Pierce, but Warner Brothers had someone else in mind. Oh, Christopher. Oh, one casting a child and one casting David DeColny.

Who probably was a child at the time. Their first choice, Betty Davis, turned down the role and it did eventually go to Crawford. That feels like a more of a Joan kind of movie. Yeah, and it happens a couple of times

where Betty's the first choice and she turns down a role and then Joan gets it. So she's kind of getting her sloppy seconds. The film was a resounding critical and commercial success. and earned Crawford the Academy Award for Best Actress in her leading role. Team Joan.

Her first and only Oscar. Okay, there you go, first and only, whatever. Isn't that great though? That is good. That's not that she won that, but obviously it really belongs to Betty because she turned the roll down. That's Betty's role down. That's Betty's Rocker. It's, yeah, it's interesting that Joan seems to be trying to be friendly, and Betty,

Petty Betty, is returning the gifts. A bit disappointing. All right, moaning, Joning. Hey, I'm having fun over here. Maybe you should do a bit of the same petty. Guys, I hate it when you fight over things other than me. Fight over me. No, we are fighting over you.

You're Petard or whatever that guy's name was. Petard. Francho? Francho. Tone. Tone. Okay. That was way off.

Penchard. The success of Mildred Pierce revived Crawford's movie career. For several years she starred in what were called a series of first-rate melodramas. So it gives her a bit of a boost. In 1947, Crawford adopted two more children who she named Cindy and Kathy. I've seen Cynthia somewhere else as well.

She's got quite a few adopted children then. Yeah, so she's got four. Okay, four. The children were adopted, this is wild. They were adopted from Tennessee Children's Home Society, an orphanage slash child trafficking unit, operated by Georgia Tan, a source used by many childless Hollywood stars to adopt. Wait, what?

Until Tan's discovery and death erupted in infamy in 1952. So it was like an orphanage, but it was a child trafficking thing, that a bunch of Hollywood stars adopted kids from there. It was like the go-to place for Hollywood stars to adopt kids. Isn't that fucking crazy? Yeah, like when you say, like, when you say orphanage where Hollywood stars found their kids. Yeah.

You go, all right. But when you say slash child trafficking, it's like, is that just really bad spin on what an orphanage is? No, some bad, some deeply unethical things. And was that on the sign? No, no, no, no, no. It wasn't known until later in the 50s. Yeah, right.

Holy shit. That's fucking wild. I don't quite, I don't fully understand what's happened there, but it doesn't sound good. I didn't want to delve too deep into it. Okay. It didn't sound good. Oh, good.

So that same year, the film possessed was tailor-made for Betty Davis. But she was on maternity leave. So Joan Crawford once again got Davis's leftovers, which I'm sure hurt her ego a little bit. But an Oscar nomination probably helped Crawford's ego. Yeah, I mean, hopefully, if I know Joan like I do, I think she'd take that all with a grain of salt. Do you reckon?

Who every role is offered to someone, first. Betty, she's the it girl right now, but Joan's the it woman in the long term. You know what I mean? Sure. Well, another way to look at it is an oft-quoted line from Betty Davis who said, Miss Crawford is a movie star and I am an actress. Yeah.

Oh, wow. Love that. I like it as well because I think, you know, she means movie stars are put down. I reckon Joan would probably be cool with that. Like, fuck yeah. Yeah, I'm a movie star. stuff. Pretty good.

Betty's an artist. Yeah, she's starting to sound like a bit of a wanker. Sorry to use the W word there. How dare you. Are you going to take that? No. Team Betty? Exactly.

She's an artistist. She's passing over the sloppy seconds to your it woman. Yes. Well, I like to call her. Shit woman. Whoa, Dave. Is that a bit much? Sorry, is that too far.

Too far. Sorry. I couldn't think of anything to say and I had to go. Go hard. I don't think you did. I don't want too far. I apologize. You could just say, hey, Jess, do go on. Yeah, Dave, don't go hard. You've got too many flops under the belt for that. At the age of 39, Betty Davis gave birth to a daughter, Barbara Davis Sherry, known as BD. Hey, BD.

BD. And later wrote in her memoir that she became absorbed in motherhood and considered ending her career. But as she continued making films, however, her relationship with her daughter BD began to deteriorate. There's a real diva move from her as well, from Wikipedia. Among the film roles offered to Davis, following her return to filmmaking, was Rose Sayer in the African Queen in 1951. When informed that the film was to be shot in Africa, Davis refused the part, telling Jack Warner, if you can't shoot the picture in a boat on the back lot,

then I'm not interested. And Catherine Hepburn played the role instead and was nominated for an Academy Award. I love it. She's like, ah, fuck that. I'm not going anywhere. Another part of their rivalry and feud... That's fine. So that's Bet Davis. Yeah.

Who's the actress. That's right. I'm not a movie star. I'm an actress. I'm not... If you can't do it just on the set, no way. So yeah, another big part was around the 1952 romantic drama The Star. It was written by Catherine Albert, who was a long-time friend of Joan Crawford until a falling out.

And the film was about a washed-up actress clinging desperately to her fading star. It was widely seen as a thinly veiled depiction of Crawford, and who should play the lead role, but Betty Davis. Wow, okay. And she walked into a dressing room and said, I'm you. You suck. I don't know why you would think this role's about you. It's a different character called Bone Dorford. Very different.

Yeah, BD. It's about my daughter. I'm my daughter. That bitch. Betty, Betty's, yeah. Having a feud with all, everyone. Everyone. Jumping ahead to the early 60s,

both women had worked pretty consistently in the decades prior, but roles for older women were less frequent and certainly less interesting. It was Crawford who convinced Davis to sign on to whatever happened to baby Jane, the psychological horror story about a disabled former actress, Crawford, who was terrorised by her deranged sister, Davis, in their Hollywood home. Whoa. So she convinced her to come on.

and play this part and be in a film together. Who convinced who? Crawford. Convinced Betty. Yeah. So Betty Davis agreed to sign on to baby Jane on two conditions. One, that she played the title role of Jane, and two, that the film's director Robert Aldrich assured her he was not sleeping with Crawford.

She said, it wasn't that I cared about his private life or hers either. I didn't want him favouring her with more close-ups. Oh, wow. Now, that's what an actor would say. Yeah. A movie star, they don't care about counting close-ups. That's right. An actor does.

An actor does. Because it's about the craft. That's right. Correct. I want to play the title role. The title role is a baby. Yeah? And you're saying, I can't do it.

Wham! Wham! Okay, baby Jane. Thank you. It was on set of Baby Jane that the most legendary episodes in Davis and Crawford's feud took place. All right. I was thinking they were going to reconcile here. Here we go.

When Crawford... had started sending little gifts and notes to the crew to win their affection. Davis sent her a note telling her to get off the crap. She's like, so suck it up to the crew. Get off the crap. She's essentially being like, like, Crawford's being like sickly sweet and trying to really win everybody over and Betty Davis is like, you're so fucking fake. Shut up.

It's so funny to, you can interpret anything like that if you want to. Yeah. Oh, it's being real nice. What a jerk. Yeah. You don't mean that. Both called the director Knightley to complain about the other. Crawford was on Pepsi's board of directors at the time.

Her late husband, Alfred Steele, was a Pepsi executive. So Betty Davis had a Coke machine installed in her dressing room just despite it. It really feels like everything is Betty being petty so far. And whatever Jones is about to do, I'm with her. Betty's got it coming. I reckon let go of sides and just enjoy the petty stupidness. Because that's funny. But she's on the board of Pepsi, so she puts in a Coke vending machine.

That's funny. Dave might find that funny. I don't. I find that offensive. I'm absolutely on board. And something that I would do. In one scene where Jane beats Crawford's character Blanche, Crawford requested a body double because she didn't trust Davis to not hurt her for real.

She was reportedly proved right during a close-up in which a body double couldn't be used, where Davis hit her heart in the head. Oh, no. Some reports claim hard enough to require stitches, though Davis insisted she barely touched her. But Crawford got her payback during the filming of another scene where Jane drags Blanche out of bed and across the room. Knowing that Davis had back problems, Crawford made herself as heavy as possible, either by filling her pockets with rocks, wearing a weightlifter's belt, or simply making herself dead weight, depending on which report you believe,

and deliberately ruined several takes, forcing Davis to drag her around again and again until she was in. agony. Matt, how do you feel about that? See, now finally, Jonah's stepping up and sticking up for herself. She's been a shrinking violet for too long, if that's what the phrase is. And now she's finally saying, hey, Betty, if you're going to be like that to me, well, I'm going to, honestly, I'm going to ruin the rest of your life. Because back pain is forever. It's pretty full on. This is actually awful. But you deserve it. Despite the drama intention on set, the film was a huge success, recouping its costs within 11 days of its nationwide release and reviving Davis and Crawford's careers. Great.

I reckon this is the first one maybe that I've heard of. I don't know anything about it, but I reckon I've heard the top. You know the title? So that's something. Betty Davis was nominated for an Academy Award for her performance, which, as you can imagine, Crawford took really, really well. Oh, Crawford, not nominated. No. Oh, dear.

But I'm kidding, because she contacted the other nominees to let them know that. if they could not attend the ceremony, she'd be happy to accept the Oscar and they all agreed. Oh, that is so good. Not that they were in on the pettiness, but they were all based on the East Coast. So it was, you know, they probably weren't going to be able to get there. And Joan Crawford was a legend. So it was probably an honour to a lot of them.

I would be delighted to take a flu. That is so funny. Isn't that funny? So both Davis and Crawford were backstage, Crawford having presented best director, when the absent and Bancroft was announced as the winner and Crawford accepted the award on her behalf. Davis claimed for the rest of her life that Crawford had campaigned against her, which Crawford of course denies, but fuck me.

That is ridiculous and very funny. Wanting to capitalize on the success of Baby Jane, Warner Brothers commissioned a spiritual sequel of sorts called Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte. It was based on a short story by Henry Farrell, who wrote the novel the Baby Jane was based on, and would see Davis and Crawford reunite on screen as a different pair of women locked in a psychological warfare, again directed by Aldrich. So they're like, come on, this has gone well.

Get the dream team back together. Let's capitalize on it. Crawford dropped out after a week and a half of filming, claiming that she was unwell. She returned to Hollywood from set in Louisiana. And although Aldrich hired a private detective to track her down, he wasn't able to get her back on set, and finally the choice came down to recasting her role

or canceling the film altogether. after several actresses turned down the part Olivia de Havela Havelin was finally hired in Crawford's place Crawford who was devastated said I heard the news of my replacement over the radio lying in my hospital bed I cried for nine hours Crawford

nursed grudges against Davis and Aldrich for the rest of her life saying that Aldrich he's a man who loves evil horrendous vile things to which Aldrich replied if the shoe fits wear it and I am very fond of Miss Crawford. So he's saying she's vile.

Oh. Sassy! Was she hoping that they wouldn't recast? I guess so. That they'd just cancel? Yeah, but they're like, well, we've already started. Or wait for her, maybe? Maybe she was dreaming that they'd, you know.

But I don't know that she was actually unwell. Right. Well, she was in a hospital bed weeping. So you tell me what that means. Nine hours. I started a timer when I started crying. That's too long. I'm starting to have a little.

fantasy where they're all in on this, they're all like, let's really give them a show. Yeah. You know, let's make this feel like it's something. They're mates and they're laughing about it behind closed doors. They're like, now you say something awful that man, you'll be funny. That would be nice. WWE style. Yeah, K-Fabe.

Finally, in 1977, the feud came to an end because one of them died. Wow. Is the other one involved? No. At the reported age of 69, because remember we don't know what year she was born, but nace. Is that why they rebranded so she could be 609? That's right. Joan Crawford had a heart attack and died in May of 1977.

There's a famous quote from Betty Davis, but no one has an actual source for it, but it's pretty sassy and a good burn, so it's worth mentioning. Said, you should never say anything bad about the dead. You should only say good. Joan Crawford is dead. Good. That carpe, is that true?

Is that full on? That's so amazingly full on. Zero class, Betty. And the shoe was on the other foot. Joan would have been very magnanimous. Yeah. I don't know if that is an appropriate word. It's probably appropriate.

In her will, which was signed on October 28, 1976, Crawford bequeathed her two youngest children, Cindy and Kathy, $77,500 each, from her $2 million estate. She explicitly disinherited her two eldest, Christina and Christopher, saying it's my intention to make no provision herein for my son Christopher or my daughter, Christina, for reasons which are well known to them. Oh, they know what they did. They know what they did.

They both challenged it and received like 55 grand each. The year after her death, her daughter Christina published a memoir and expose called Mummy Dearest, which contained allegations that Crawford was emotionally and physically abusive to Christina and her brother Christopher because she chose fame and her career over parenthood. Many of Crawford's friends and co-workers denounced the book, categorically denying any abuse. Others stated that she was like very strict and maybe had some questionable kind of

behaviors, but nothing that full on. The book was made into a film in 1981, starring Faye Dunaway as Crawford. And surprisingly, Betty Davis came to her enemy's defense following the publication of the book. She said, I was not Miss Crawford's biggest fan, but wisecracks to the contrary, I did and still do respect her talent. What she did not deserve was that detestable book written by her daughter, to do something like that to someone who saved you from the orphanage, foster homes, who knows what. If she didn't like the person who chose to be her mother,

she was a grown up and could choose her own life. Don't love that last part, but it's interesting that she was kind of like, that's a pretty crook thing to do. Davis went on to admit that she felt very sorry for Joan Crawford, but I knew she wouldn't appreciate my pity because that's the last thing she would have wanted, anyone being sorry for her, especially me.

I can understand how hurt Miss Crawford had to be. It's like trying to imagine how I would feel if my own beloved wonderful daughter B.D. were to write a bad book about me, unimaginable. That last part is painfully ironic because in 1985, BD would indeed follow in Christina's footsteps

and publish a book entitled My Mother's Keeper in which she described Davis as a selfish, emotionally abusive alcoholic. Whoa! Isn't that wild that she was like, I can't even imagine my daughter doing that? And then she did it. She's trying to, this is a message to BD. Please don't do this.

That would be wild. But was she, so she's still alive when this came out? Oh, so she lives to see it. Yes. Cruer. Public reaction was largely sympathetic towards Davis. Yeah, who was alive. Betty.

Betty. Not BD. BD was also alive to write the book. Right, sorry, but I mean, the sympathy was for Betty Davis rather than... BD's last name is now Hyman. So, yeah, Davis, I mean, Betty. So people are kind of like, that doesn't sound right. And lots of different people sort of, yeah, debunked it.

Or Mike Wallace rebroadcast a 60 Minutes interview he'd filmed with BD a few years earlier in which she commended Davis on her skills as a mother and said she had adopted many of Davis as principals in raising her own children. Just a couple of years earlier, she was like, great mom, I'm trying to be like her as a mom. You know, you can change your mind. It's very interesting. But BD's brother, also adopted brother, disagreed so strongly with the book's publication that he disowned her as did Betty Davis. Betty Davis disowned and disinherited her daughter over this. Betty died in 1989 from breast cancer at the age of 81.

So very interesting how similar the ends of their lives were, their relationships with their children, very complex and complicated. The feud between Joan Crawford and Betty Davis is depicted in a 1989 book called Betty and Joan, The Divine Feud. And in 2017, the first season of a TV series, also called Feud, inspired by the book, has Crawford played by Jessica Lang and Davis played by Susan Sarandon. And I've seen bits of it. I haven't watched the whole series, but it's really good. So it's worth a little bit of a look. But yeah, that is the lifelong feud between Joan Crawford and Ben.

Betty Davis. Amazing. Too. Yeah, it's funny to frame a, it's an episode about two of the great actors. But yeah, it's so amazing how their lives have been tied together in this sort of negative petty way. But yeah, it was cool to hear about the highs and lows. Yeah.

And I really liked how Betty talked about Joan in the end because that made me think it's like it was a bit of a, it felt like it was a bit of a, almost like the wrestling. thing where, you know, publicly we stash and stuff. But really, it's built in respect. Yeah. You know, like in wrestling. And there's theory, like some people sort of have theories that Joan was like in love with Betty. There's like, yeah, there's theories that that's kind of the basis of their relationship or lack thereof. It's, yeah, it's kind of interesting. I just thought it's interesting because it's something a bit different to just a Hollywood biography. and yeah just the the pettiness and stuff is it's pretty funny there's some funny stuff

and the bediness the bediness and the pettiness thank you and the moaning and the joan you can use that later huh not bad notice you haven't used it much yet okay it's still time i'm saving it i'm saving it there's still time great report Bob I really enjoyed that now it is time for everyone's favorite section of the show where we get to thank a few of our great supporters these people have signed up to support us at patreon.com slash 2Go on pod. There's a bunch of different levels, all sorts of different rewards and whatnot. What are some of them, Jess?

You get to get access to three bonus episodes a month over at Patreon. That's right. And we've put out over 150 that as soon as you support us on that level, you get access to all of them. Yeah, you get access to early access to tickets to live shows and also the Facebook group, which is the friendliest part of the internet. You also get voting rights in not only topics, but also the golden shiny Gary's. Yes.

Our night of nights. So if, yeah, which possibly the voting's open right now. Maybe. Should, hopefully. You get to vote for your favourite episode of 2022. What will it be? Also, favorite guests. Yeah.

Favorite bonus episode. Favorite report giver? Yep, and I'm starting my campaign today. Yeah. Vote for me. Let's campaign. Yeah. Against Dave.

Yeah, vote for them. Vote for them. Come on, I'm humble. Vote for them. You're not humble. You're not fooling anybody. But one of the other things you can get is to give us a fact quote or a question. If you sign up on the Sydney-Shaunberg level, you have to do this.

You also get to give yourself a title. I read these out for the first time when I read them out. And the first one this week comes from Mr. Justin McCain. He plays. a silly game when all the kids in the street they like to do the same boo aka the recluse and Justin has offered us a fact writing did you know if you took all the veins arteries and capillaries out of a person and laid them end to end you'd be a lunatic and a murderer cheers that is a good point that is good a beautiful fun fact there they asked me to do it thank you very much

And the next one comes from Katie Clay's, aka coordinator of awkward moments. Dave? Yeah, just knocking my drink bottle into the microphone. That was awkward. Katie's asking a question writing. What is the best thing you have ever eaten? Oh, dear God.

Like it will stick with you forever because of how wonderfully amazing it was. Oh, that's so nice. And as always, I encourage the question writers to give us an answer. And Katie has. Do you want to hear her answer all you thinking? My answer, I made a toasted sandwich with Nutella, slashed strawberries and dusted with icing sugar. I made it while breastfeeding, so I needed to up my calorie intake to cope with milk production. The human body is so odd, but now the sweet sandwich haunts my dreams.

Yum. Something like breastfeeding burns like 800 more calories or something. Really? Yeah, it's like because your body's working so hard to. produce breast milk that you're just burning through. So you've got to eat more. No kidding. Yeah, it's fascinating.

Really interesting. Anyway, that sounds delicious. I don't know. 800 calories doesn't mean anything to me because I don't really understand calories. But still, it sounds like a lot. It's a fair amount of food, yeah. So it's pretty cool. That's awesome.

Do you have anything comes from mind? The things that sprung straight to mind, the first thing was salted caramel cheesecake from the cheesecake factory. Oh. So good. and secondly that then sprung to my mind as well was doll whip doll whip oh from Hawaii yeah pineapple pineapple it's like soft serve pineapple oh my god it was so it was creamy but refreshing and I miss it every day so that's probably it that's probably my best thing I've ever eaten

love it I would say my single best flavor my thing that I love I can't get enough of is blue castello cheese, hence me going, ooh, cheese, oh, blue. Have you, like, is there a time where you ate it first that it really sticks with you or something? Oh, that's nice. I can't remember the first ever time I had it. But whenever I have it, I just think this is the best flavor. Have you tried their Mercy Valley pickled onion cheese? No, but it sounds great.

Holy shit, it's so good. Sounds so great. I love it so much. Matt, what's the best thing you've ever eaten? I'm struggling a lot of nostalgic memories. Mum's trifle, dad's pasties. Oh, yeah. But, yeah, the thing that, like a specific meal,

and this is just a recent-ish memory, but the night before Dave and I came home from the UK, we went out to an Italian place and had this handmade pasta. I can't remember what kind it was, but, you know, the filled up pasta. Yep. Not ravioli, but something like that.

Another name was similar toavioli, wasn't it? Yeah, but I liked it. Tortolini. That's it. It was some version of tortellini. And it was, yeah, filled with pumpkin and it had like truffle oil or something, which I've never really had. Yum.

But it was, yeah, it was really, it was just, I think it's just sometimes it's nice to be in a restaurant. Yeah. With, like, cloth napkins. Yeah. That was a sensational meal. Sensational. Absolutely sensational.

And, yeah, finished it with some sort of a chocolate dessert. Ugh, yum. Oh, the other thing I could think of is the first time I ever had turkey. Oh, yeah. Christmas when I was about maybe 11 or 12. My uncle Gary had cooked it on the Weber, the barbecue in the backyard for like eight hours or something. Dave, you have an uncle Gary? Yeah, I've never mentioned my uncle Gary.

What the fuck? I mean, holding out on you. You knew it Gary this whole time? First time you had turkey. And I remember I was like, oh, what is this sort of white meat? I don't really, you know, I was a bit suss of it, you know, trying a new food. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll have a little piece of it. And I was like, oh, my goodness, where has this been my whole life?

And then drowning it in gravy, like, could not get enough. It does sound good. Yeah. I don't think I ever had turkey. I only ever have it really at Christmas on the occasional sandwiches. or something, but like the roast sliced turkey, that's a Christmas and I still hang out for it. Yum. I had a similar thing with avocado.

I'm like, always, I'm like, I don't, this doesn't look good. And then I had a, when I was a trolley boy at the supermarket, had a, bought a six pack of these Baprolls, had avocado, cheese and sliced tomatoes and black pepper. It was so good. And you were like, I'll just give this a try. Yeah. And I think I ate the whole six pack of rolls probably. How many times did you? vomited that job.

Because remember the time he had two liters of chocolate milk? That's the only time I vomited, all right? Was it chocolate or was it strawberry? It was chocolate. Oh, so awful. I used to, I used to have an awful thing. I'd have a buy a three pack of Mars bars and eat that in a 15 minute break. Yeah.

15 minutes. Or six pack of ice donuts. Yeah. I'd just, I'm like, what am I doing? I used, there were times where there weren't donuts, I'd buy like a tea cake. Just eat a cake. I'm not, I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing with you because I was thinking the other day about the shit I used to eat or be able to eat and feel fine.

And now I'm like, if I ate more than one piece of cake, my stomach hurts for days. Oh no. I hate to be old. It's so funny. Used to be, yeah, indestructible. But when I was doing the overnight shifts at Triple J, early on, I would be taking a box of shapes, like a gingerbread man or something like something sweet cakey. And like a red bull or a V or something, and I'm like, perfect. That was the big difference when I used to be able to handle drinking energy drinks.

And they didn't just taste like you're like you're rotting you. Like it feels now like, have a simple chemical. It feels like a chemical burning you once you were good. I'm like, okay, now I need a bit of protein. So I'm going to take a protein snack with me. I'll take some carrots. It's ridiculous. It's so funny.

So no, I'm laughing with you because I'm, would have done the same thing. Well, there's no donuts. I'll just get a cake. I mean, it'd be rude not to finish it. I'm not an idiot. I've got 15 minutes. What can I shove in my gum quickly?

That's so great. Yeah, it's also the age of being, you know, just starting to be able to buy your own food and stuff, and you're probably not responsible enough. No way. Mama never send you to school with a cake. So funny. Thank you for that.

Question Katie, loved it. The next one comes from Roy Phillips, aka Manager Major of the Imaginary Menagerie. Ooh. That was fine. Thank you, Roy. You did well there. Jeez. Wow.

Yeah, it was like, brain goes a bit fuzzy when I read those ones. Whoa. What a rush. That is a real rush. Roy has a question as well writing, is there something you guys are obsessively amely retentive over? And Roy also answers the question. Yeah, give us rose answer. For me, I have this thing where the switches on plug sockets have to be all turned off when not in use.

Sounds silly, but the amount of people that unplug their phone without switching the plug off winds me up no end. I guess this might be a UK-specific problem. No, that would be the same thing here. Same thing here. I love saying Matt and Dave in London, great to meet you both. Jess, hopefully, get to meet you soon too. I thought I was thinking that, because I remember. We met Roy.

Roy came up and he said, I'm the tongue twister guy. Yeah, that was really fun. That's great. That's cool. We reenacted the rush that he gave you a couple of years. Oh my God, that was so funny. Jess,

you've obviously got numbers. True, yes, that does bother me. I do like rounded numbers. It doesn't impact me too much day to day, I guess. I don't know. That's a classic one. I'm big on the volume being in groups of five. Oh, yeah, yep.

That's fair. I will change the like if the toilet roll is the wrong way I will change it I don't care if I'm at somebody else's house or out in public I will change it So is the new piece over the top to the front Rather than dragging against the wall correct correct thank goodness You'll never have that problem in my house We've talked about this before and somebody did email us And they had like a diagram and an official thing and that is the correct way

Thank goodness for that. Oh, there you go. I don't think I could tell you. I'd just, something I would notice because it's a gentleman. Yeah, why would you need it? Yeah, why would you? I didn't worry about that sort of stuff. But I must save so much money on toilet paper.

I was thinking something I do and I think it's out of habit as more than being anally retentive or anything. But if I buy something at a supermarket, I'll, without thinking, I'll face up the shelf. Yeah, that's just from your training. I think it's just, yeah, it's just like, you never forget. But I also. I think it's also like I'm aware of someone's got to do that. Yeah.

Although, but sometimes I want it, you know, if they're going to fill the shelf, they want it all push back. But I think, yeah, I don't know, just instinctively I always... You'll tidy it up. I'll pull a... For example, if I take a milk, I'll pull one forward. For example, you pick them up straight away. I did do that, yeah.

Wow. I don't know if that's a good example of what the question is or not. My automatic one is I lock the door, the front door at home and the back door. Even if we've got to say there's a trady in the backyard. You'll lock him out. A few times they're knocking on the door. I'm like, oh, sorry, I just lock it. I don't even think about it.

Yeah, right. Sliding door, lock up. I'm like, oh, and it's happened like for the same person, twice and the one visit. Sorry again, sorry. That's funny. I think we've slipped into a slightly different thing. It's sort of the same, but Roy's saying it annoys it annoys it doesn't do

and these are things we do without thinking about. Oh, yeah, okay. Another one that I do, like, which you always, you always swear, Dave, is I always, when I open a can, I always move the can tab to the right side. and that's something I think I got off my old man I used to do it to the left and he used to always do it because of his mustache he's like it means it doesn't get called my mustache as much

and then when I was an adult I was said I ended up doing this I always do this because you do it always to the left he said no no always to the right side the right side of the father like it was a religious thing and he cheers to you your dad is the best

I find that very very funny maybe quite retentive about pushing chairs back in At a table? Oh, yeah, yep. I do actually hate that. When people stand up and they leave it all the way back, I go, oh, no, no, no. I was at my friend. Talk it back in.

tuck it in. I was at my friend's house. Yep. The other day, and we were having, like, breakfast, and her husband came, sat down, joined us, and then he went back to work. He was working in the study. He left his chair out. It's at his house.

And I'm like carrying their baby, walking around, putting my chair in, sighing as I push his chair in his own house. I was like, you son of a bitch. I got to put your chair in. Unbelievable. He's like, I like them out. Oh, okay. You like them out, do you?

No, you don't. No one likes them out. You stop, you animal. I think I'd do the bit with at restaurants or cafes order. I'll take my empties back to the. Oh, yep. And I think sometimes I don't realize I'm doing until I'm there. And I'm like, they don't.

I'm not, this isn't helping them. No. I'm putting it up on the bench where it's just like already kind of like, sorry is this. I'm trying to help. Thank you very much for that question. Roy, the final one this week comes from Gaddy J from the UK, whose title is, you're a... Oh.

You don't read him until you read him. Want to give some context there, Matt? He fucking got you. I think I said that to him on stage when we're in Birmingham. That's right. We did a bit of our famous crowd work and you went him, knowing that he's a frequent... Good listener to the show that we've met many times.

So it would go to go. But I also, yeah, but I, yeah, I got, Dave and I will sometimes will do this thing where we escalate being rude to the audience or I will. But I did the, I did the escalated one first accidentally. Right. So I had nowhere to go. Yeah. And Dave's like, well, you're really going to, you get it.

So I'm like, don't make me, anyway. And that's what, that's what you'll never see at a do-go-on show if I'm there. Commitment. Commitment to a bit. Is that you mean? No. No. Being rude.

Oh, being rude. Yeah. Come on. Having a go with people. Yeah, no. You're being unprofessional. I'm a sweetie. I'm a cutie pie and a sweetheart.

That's what I was trying to say. Oh, okay. No, I understand now. Committing to a bit? Yeah. You certainly don't do that either. I do do that. When have you ever done that?

I always do that. Our entire friendship is a bit. Gary's got a quote. He writes, I'm just heading out of the Birmingham show for Who Knew It and the stand-up show. I just want to set the record straight. I'm so glad I sat at the front and got questioned about my favorite fruit, which was a banana, but there's more.

I don't remember that bit. Were you asking him about his favorite fruit at some point? No. I was so happy. It's so bad how bad our memories are, but I was so happy to be seeing the boys. Me and my wife arrived early, waiting in the rain at the front of the queue to get some good seats. And we did front and center. We saw some great quizzing, even though the house cheated a bit.

What? I don't remember that. Then the stand-up was about to start what I'd been waiting for. There was me sitting there all excited. Matt and Dave doing some great crowd work and Matt seeing me with a big smile on my face, thought he'd involved me in it. He asked me what I'd do for work before I could answer. He attacked me. This sounds like a deposition to call something.

and said, you're a beep. Wow. C word. We don't say the C word. We don't say that. He said you're a . So that's my quote. It was all just a bit of fun.

Thanks for coming over. I hope the rest of the tour is going well and you both enjoyed your early Kishmish presence. Sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes. Hey, you never apologize. Don't you ever apologize? Gary, Jay. Gary, look at me.

Look at Jess, Gary. You never apologize. ever apologize, please. We love you, Gary. Thank you so much to Gary Roy, Katie and Justin. The next thing we like to do is shout out to a few of our other great supporters. Jess normally comes up with a game based on the topic at hand. What do you think in this time?

Who their lifelong feud is with. Oh, fun. Every time I've said feud, I have felt like I'm saying it wrong. Feud. Every single time today. I've read the word feud. I've said feud and I've gone, is that right? Every time.

Feud, family feud. Family feud. Still, just felt wrong. Anyway, yeah, who their lifelong feud is with. All right, if I can kick us off, I'd love to thank from Chicago, Illinois, the windy city. Right near Gary, Indiana. It's Miller Jamison. The wind.

Oh, feuding with the wind. Good luck, Miller. Yeah. That's a tough opponent. I've been around for all of the wind's life. Yeah. Great guy. Right.

But dog it. Dogged. You don't want a beef with a wind, Miller. Look, it's up to you. Okay. But I would say, you know, bow out. Honestly, I would bow out. I'd be sending some flowers.

Yeah. Yeah, and there'd be no shame in that. There would be no shame in that. The wind can mess you up. Yeah. Wind is full on. Say goodbye to a good hair day. Ever.

Thank you very much, Miller. I'd also love to thank from Chiswick. I hope that's how you said. In Great Britain, it's Matt Gillespie. Matt Gillespie, when I'm not going to read it out, Matt, but I think your email is awesome. Matt Gillespie, who's feuding with Will Smith. Whoa.

And he is also an opponent you don't want to mess with. That's right. He's not afraid to, you know, tell you what he thinks, or act on his emotion. That's right. That's right. So, Matt Gillespie, I would back off. Yeah, for sure.

I'd get some security. I love that fresh reference. It's just told enough that people are like, when did they record this? Well, he was back in the news at the week of recording. Oh, was it? What happened? He did his first interview post. He was on one of the tonight shows.

Right. Starting his sort of sorry campaign. Sorry tour. He's got a new movie out. Right. Oh, boy. That's tough. But Matt Gillespie, I back you all the way.

You could take down Wilson. I'd also have to thank from Gloucester in Great Britain. It is Keith Fairburn, who's come over from the Dugan website. Appreciate your support, Keith. Thanks for making the jump across. Keith Fairburn. He is feuding with one of the oldest boxes in the world. Oh.

I don't know his name. Okay. But if you look up Guinness World Records oldest boxer, that's who Keith. oldest boxer. Is this someone that you're imagining or you're just hoping that someone comes up? I'm just hoping someone comes up. I started a sentence I didn't know what was going to end. Okay, great.

Stephen Ward. Oh, don't mess with Wardy. Keith Fairburn and Stephen Ward. It's the, you know, at the House of Stouche. It's an English former professional boxer, notable for having held the accolade for being the oldest professional boxer in the world. Yeah. Honestly, Keith, it's not too late to back out.

I'm looking at Steve Ward's boxing record wins. 15. Losses, 41. Okay, Steve. I didn't say oldest really good boxer in the world. Oh, you keep out it, Steve. I reckon you're going to come good. Do you want to thank a few, Bopper? I would love to.

I would love to thank from Mesa, Arizona. He's he who's Arizona? Yeah. I would love to thank Zach Vernon. Zach Vernon. Zach Vernon. Okay, feuding with... Um, okay.

Who am I thinking about? Slash. Slash from guns and roses. Dib, do you, do, nib, nip, nip, me, d'n. Is that, that's, yeah, that's slashes. Yeah, do you make fun of Slash's hat? Yeah. Oh, man, he said, no.

He said, not, he said, Nors hat. Slash. Slash clapped back. You do not make fun of Slash. But you know, his nickname is Slash because he slashes people. Really? That's not true. I know.

But because he is always the first to break the seal. Yeah. He loves to. to have a slash. A beautiful, beautiful language we are there. Good on you, Zach. Thank you, Zach. I would also have to thank from Ross Angeles, Eric Morales.

Who is opponent or feuding with Taylor Swift. Whoa! Again, you do not want to feud with Taylor Swift. You're going to have an album written about you, and it is going to be scatving. The Swifties are going to be on your ass. You do not want Swifties on or around or up your ass. Certainly not up. Certainly not up.

big strife Eric but I back you I back you but I back you but I back you but geez Louis not publicly because the swifties will come for me you don't want them up our asses I don't want them up on my ass either those swifties those swifties will do it can't get them out um so good luck to you Eric you're on your own I'm with you Eric I'll back you publicly really yeah the swifties can come for me too I don't think that's a good idea because then they'll come for the podcast as well oh yeah okay sorry Eric you're and I'll be on the street don't do it to us you're our pod dad. That is what Swift fans do.

They put people on the street. They don't stop until you are on the streets. I would finally love to thank from Belmont, New South Wales, Michaela McCray. Michaela McCrae. Eminem's. Feuding with Eminemes. No, they are powerful.

I know. Which ones? Green one. Green one. Oh, all of them. Yellow one. Not the brown one. No, not the brown one.

Not the plain one. But the plain one is. is not really able to sway the others to forgive Michaela. I believe Michaela McRae wrote the first ever question on who knew it on episode 1. Are you going to send us some sort of Guinness Book of Record certificate? What a title. Yeah. I imagine Macaella is very proud.

Yeah, it should be a new LinkedIn, Michaela. Pop that on there. Dave, do you want to thank some people? Yes, I'd love to thank from Mildura in Victoria. It's Jackie Gillen. Jackie Gillen, of course. A lifelong feud with the Murray River. Oh, no.

The Mighty Murray. The Mighty Murray. You're like, oh, how long could it be? Tracing it all the way from Mildura down. Jesus, I think long. It's so fucking long. I've spent a lot of time. I spent a lot of time in my youth in Mildura on that Mighty Murray.

Oh, right. Never saw Jackie there, though, because of the feud. Yeah, that's right. She won't go anywhere near it. Won't do it. If you ever went near it, it would be back to it. And arms folded. And making a hump.

And maybe like flipping it off. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Not sorry. Sorry, I didn't see you there. Whatever. Whatever no one likes you. Canya Jackie.

That's why she lives in Mildura, because the Murray's in New South Wales. She would never live in a state that had that dirty water flowing through it. Victoria is Murray free. Is that right? Yeah. There you go You know The Murray's

In New South Wales It's like Yeah They own the river Right Yeah well they're welcome to it Yeah As far as Jackie's concerned

Yeah We don't need it I want to clarify I quite like the Murray Oh I love the Murray Again had some really beautiful memories But I back my friends I back Jackie here

Me too Yeah I support Jackie's feud But I will still partake in activities On the Murray Well I'm happy to give up my summer For Jackie Just saying

Wow. It's putting it out there. I'd like to think now from Stockholm in Sweden, Jonah Haglund. Oh, Jonah Haglund. Jonah or Jonah would it be a soft J in Sweden? Maybe it could be. Yona Haglund. I'll just have that as an attempt as well.

On the record. On the record, yeah. I think they are having a feud with bees. Whoa. No. You are out in number in a big way. Yeah, there are, I mean, less than they used to be, but there are still a lot of these. The good news is they are dying, thankfully.

I don't think anyone's put it in those terms before. What, Jonah has? Oh, yes. The good news is the bees are dying. Thank goodness. Someone clip that out. Hang in there, you will, you know, they will be extinct soon. But doesn't that, doesn't that mean we all will be?

Yeah. That's exactly what a bee does, doesn't it? It kills itself. Oh, that's true. It attacks you. Yeah. So, how do you feel about that, B? Yeah.

You're going down while I'm taking you with me. So on your, Yona, Jonah. I would like to thank now from finally, Melbourne in Victoria. It's Melbourne. Melbourne, so sorry. Home town hero. I would like to thank a big thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. To Zayelia Nolte. Or Zalia. Probably Zalia Nolte. Zalia Nolte. Fantastic. Fantastic. Fantastic.

Zalia is feuding with Metallica. Whoa. Past and present members. Lars has, he said some things that he should regret. Okay. He doesn't, but he should. And if he doesn't yet, he will soon. Wow.

Yeah, because Zalia is coming for him. I'm Laz Ulrich. Can we have a bit more from Lars? Hey, I'm Lars Rik. I'm... No, are you nailing? You're the... I'm the drummer from Metallica.

Oh my goodness. Where did Matt go? Lazz is in the house. Thanks so much to Zalia. Yona, Jackie, Michaelia, Eric, Zach, Keith, Matt and Myler, or Miller. And the last thing we like to do is welcome a few people in our Triptitch Club. Now, this is a club for people who have been a supporter of ours on the shout-out level

or above for three straight years. And once we welcome you, we're in. you're in for life if you want to be or either way and uh normally dave uh what else do i say here i've booked a band so this is a bit of a theater of the mind type thing a clubhouse for people that've been supporting the shows for three plus years that's right i'm on the door i've got the names i think there's two names this week i'm going to read them out i'm going to lift up the velvet rope welcome you in dave's up on the stage with jess and he's your hype man everyone else who's already in there is chanting your name

Dave will hype you up. He's getting them into a lather. And then after the show, please hang around. Jess is behind the bar. You've got a cocktail or a drink or something tonight? Of course, darling. It's 1920s themed. We're all wearing flapper dresses.

I've got some moonshine. Cigars, you've got to be a star. I'm looking forward to this. Is that enough for you? I don't know how to, like... Yeah, that was great. We've got champagne in those little croup glasses. They're little cute and fancy.

This is awesome. We've got a cigarette and a long stick. Oh, they're very nice. fun. Yeah. This is so good. Funny lady will be there. Funny lady will be there.

Wow, what a get. Dave, and you normally book a band for the after show. Do you have someone there? She's not funny, but she is a lady, and that is Kim Carnes is going to be. Can you believe that? I can. Performing her hits, including Draw of the Cards. Does it make you remember Crazy in the Night in Brackets Barking at Aeroplanes?

Make no mistake, he's mine. And with Barber Streisand, what about me? Oh, that's with Kenny Rodgers. so sorry. But she will not be performing the Betty Davis-Eyes track until her encore. She'll be bringing it out. Don't you worry about that. That'd be a real deal breaker.

Yeah, that'd be disappointing. Just play the song. All right, Dave, are you ready to hype up our inductees? Yes. All right, here we go. That wasn't convincing. Hang on, try again. Dave, are you ready to hype up our inductees?

Would the answer, hell yeah, be a satisfactory? Still not the right kind of vibe. Yeah, there it is. All right, Matt, go right. All right. From Leichhardt in New South Wales, Australia, it's Jessica Gillette Sheethe. Pass the Gillette Sheetheather to the left hand side. Matt, if you don't think that's fantastic, fuck you.

But it's, how is that? Sheethe almost rhymes with Reefer. Yeah, but it's not, that's not what the lyric is. It's past the duchy. Oh, yeah. All right, Jess, come on. Don't take back that high five. I thought that was great.

Keep the energy. And from Fort McMurray in Alberta, Canada, maybe. But in Canada, I reckon it's Michael Lucisano. Michael Fort McMurray and Mick Murray won. Yes. Wait, to Michael Waster. Sorry, sorry. Let's go again.

Michael Ford Mick Murray and Lucisano won. Okay. That was going to do. I thought I'd do some musical ones. The Hartman's bringing you in on a defeat. Yeah. Welcome into the club. You've got to own your losses, Michael.

You'll be back. What about Steve Ward? He lost 41 boxing matches. He's still finding it 65. Well, that brings us to the end of the episode. Jess, there anything we need to tell me before we go? Oh, just that we're sorry. And that if you have a topic in mind that you think would make for a fun report, you can suggest it.

You don't have to be a supporter on Patreon to suggest the topic. There's a link in the show notes and also on our website. website do go onpod.com where you can also find merch info about live shows and anything else do go on related you can find us at do go on pod across all social media um and dave booted home hey we'll be back next week with another episode but until then we'll say thank you so much for listening and until then goodbye later bye i've already forgotten my new catchphrase bye don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there.

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