Do Go On - 377 - The Silk Road

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

The Silk Road, a dark web marketplace for buying drugs anonymously is the basis for one of the wildest true crime stories we've ever told, enjoy!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 05:50 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodLive show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/Check out our new merch: https://do-go-on-podcast.creator-spring.com/ Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other pods:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader Thomas Do Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/04/silk-road-ross-ulbricht-drugs-murderhttps://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-1/https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/10/silk-road-internet-market-illegal-drugs-ross-ulbrichthttps://web.archive.org/web/20160407165324/http://gawker.com/the-underground-website-where-you-can-buy-any-drug-imag-30818160https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/29/silk-road-ross-ulbricht-sentenced Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Just jumping in really quickly at the start of today's episode to tell you about some upcoming opportunities to see us live in the flesh. And you can see us live at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival 2024. We are doing three live podcasts on Sundays at 3.30 at Basement Comedy Club, April 7, 14 and 21. You can get tickets at dogo1pod.com. Matt, you're also doing some shows around the country. That's right. I'm doing shows with Saren Jayamana, who's been on the show before. We're going to be in Perth in January, Adelaide in February, Melbourne through the festival in April, and then Brisbane after that. I'm also doing Who Knew It's in Perth and Adelaide. Details for all that stuff at mattstuartcomedy.com.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water.

We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. hello and welcome to another episode of do go on my name is dave wonky and as always i'm here with jess perkins and Matt Stewart. Hey, Dave.

Little pause there. People are wondering, who's it going to be? Who's it going to be? Or people wondering, does Dave remember Matt's name? And the rest. Anyway, it is so nice to be alive and to be here with you in the year 2023. Wow. What?

Our eighth year. It feels like we're in the future. Our eighth year. Is that right? No, it was our ninth year. 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. Because we started right at the end of 2015. It counts.

It still counts that last month. So, but you were counting there, but you didn't reveal the actual number at the end. Yeah, you were doing finger counting. You were counting the fingers. Oh, sorry. Nobody could see, but I also lost count of the fingers. Surely people at home are using their own fingers. Okay, go again, please. And I'll use my fingers now because you didn't give me the number.

Okay. Yes. 15. Yes. Get your fingers ready, by the way. That's 2015, by the way. We start in 2015. November 11, 2015.

Remember, remember. I've got my thumb up for that. Okay. That counts. 15 is up. Yes. 16. Yes. Second digit. 17. up. Yes. 16. Yes.

Second digit. 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 9. Nine separate calendar years. That first month and a bit counts as a year, I think. A full year. Yeah. That's how powerful that first drop was when we put three episodes out in one week. There's no way that this podcast...

No, because it can't, because 2025 would be our 10th year. Right? That'd be the 10th anniversary. Yeah, you're right. Oh, my God. I've spent so much of my life with you guys. No regrets. We've loved watching you grow.

This is my longest running relationship. Wow. What about with your mum? Yes, exactly. And what about friendships? You've had many. I've had longer friendships. Oh, thank God.

And Matt and I are trying to break those up so we can overtake him. That's why Christy hasn't called me in a while. We're very threatened by Christy. You can't catch up unless we need to end some ships. Sink a few ships, if you know what I mean. Oh, my God, that's crazy. So crazy. Hey, you know what is not?

You explaining how this show works. God, you nailed that segue. This is not crazy. How this show works is one of the three of us goes away, researches a topic usually suggested by a listener, they bring it back, they tell that story to the other two who listen politely, ask very relevant and pertinent questions and at the end of the day we all walk away, we shake hands

and we say, good learning to you, sir, we say. We dip our lids. And we always start with a question. Matt, it is your turn to report on a topic. What is your question? My question is, what does Britannica describe as an ancient trade route linking China with the West that carried goods and ideas between the two great civilizations of Rome and China. Okay. Nine years in, cut the crap.

It's the Silk Road. Yes, it is the Silk Road. Could have had a funny one, but who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? I need a point. It's been ages since I got one right. Normally, we have a few joke answers. Even if we know it, we're like, oh, is it Elvis?

But Dave's here to fucking win this year. Is it the Nepean Highway? The Bourke Street Mall? See, that's fun. That's fun. That's fun, but today we're not having fun. We're not here for fun. We're cutting the crap.

2023, the year of cutting the crap. Let's cut the crap, you kids. I will turn this car around. So, this episode is about Silk Road, but we're not talking about that Silk Road today. We are talking about its namesake, the Dark Web's marketplace for buying drugs anonymously. Oh! Uh-oh! And have you bought some drugs for research purposes?

Obviously, for research purposes. Just had to get my head in the game. Yeah. Figuring out how it all works. Yeah, that's right. So that we could get in the minds of people who would visit silk road yes you know me you know that i can easily navigate the internet to the dark web and then to this site via different applications yeah i think you'd be fine with that you've got a vpn yeah and then that's beyond what i'm capable of the best part is um it becomes tax

deductible, right? Yeah. The research element of the show. And then you just tell- Free drugs. You tell your accountant, yes, of course, this bill to the dark web as it comes up in the NetBank app. Somehow I think our accountant would be like, fair enough.

She's pretty rogue. Okay. Uh-huh. Yes. That's right. As far as accountants go, pretty cool. Pretty cool. Very cool accountant. She's pretty rogue Okay, uh-huh, yes That's right, as far as accountants go, pretty cool Pretty cool, very cool accountant She's probably the only one you like, Jess Oh, agreed, because she swears

I think that's how you get me on side Most of them are real nerds So, yes, that's right, we're talking about the dark web's Silk Road And this has been suggested by a few people, including Liam Maroney from Adelaide Zach Llewellyn from Hobart Courtney Lamb from Brisbane out the dark web's silk road and this has been suggested by a few people including liam maroney from adelaide zach luellen from hobart courtney lamb from brisbane nile from melbourne and donovan brown from juno in alaska interestingly for a not very australian topic it's uh nearly all the suggestors are aussies do you two know much about this no No, I'm a good girl. Like the one sentence of what basic kind of what it is, but I've no history.

I've never been on there, but I'm keen. Log me in. I've never been on there, officer. I also knew nothing about it. It was set up in 2011, and the brains behind it was a mysterious person named Dread Pirate Roberts. Whoa. Or at least that was their username. You familiar with this name?

That is a pirate's name, isn't it? Yeah. It's taken from the Princess Bride novel and film. Oh, okay. That's why. In the Princess Bride, the Dread Pirate Roberts is an identity assumed by several different pirates. They use the name and its infamy to intimidate their opponents before secretly passing on

the name to another pirate to use. So the main character in that film, Wesley, he was at one point went around by the- Fuck, I love that movie. I fucking love that movie. I haven't seen it in so long. It's time for a rewatch. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Let's get the beanbags out. I reckon, because I probably haven't seen it since I was a teenager. Oh, you've got to see it. Oh, you must. You must. I went and saw it at Valentine's Day screening at Rooftop Cinema. Oh, that sounds like a great night out.

Heavenly. So, Nick Bilton wrote a book about this whole thing called American Kingpin, The Epic Hunt for the Criminal Mastermind Behind the Silk Road. Love that. Anything that has an epic in the title. Yeah. I'm in.

I mean, it's epic in itself because it's so many words long. But, yeah. So, I'll be referring to Bilton a little bit. And he wrote, The Silk Road matched buyers and sellers who shipped the product right to your door as if it was simply a hardcover book or sweater, all for a small commission. Sometimes drug dealers would take their product and tape it to the back of a DVD case or stuff it into hollowed-out batteries,

but most drugs just appeared in a puffy envelope, undetected by federal enforcement agencies. Do you reckon they put it inside the DVD cover or it was literally just taped to the back? Yeah, it's very... And they're hoping that someone just looks at the front and goes, yep, I won't turn this over. It's interestingly worded surely inside

it's got to be inside you flip over the copy of time cop oh there it is the entire system at least from a tech perspective was admirably efficient but the site wasn't just used for drugs according to avast.com the Silk Road, you could buy banned energy drinks, hacking services, digital goods such as malware and pirated software, and forgeries such as fake licenses and other illicit documents. Right. When you say banned energy drinks, is that like a Metallica-themed energy drink

or a drink that has been banned from the market? A good question. No dumb questions. No dumb questions. No dumb questions. That one's a little dumb. Okay. I'd really like a Blink-182 Red Bull edition or something. Sure.

Yeah. Well, that you can get on the Silk Road. I don't see why that one wouldn't be available in shops if it existed. Well, it's unlicensed. Yeah, right. Exactly. It's a knockoff. I've just stuck a picture of Blink-182 on a can and charged you $14 for it.

Oh, hi, Travis. I'm drinking Travis. That's not how energy drinks work, but whatever. It's a great property. This guy's an idiot. Also, legal goods and services were also available. There you go. You could have the official.

There's probably a slab of Red Bull on there or something. Like art, books, and jewellery. But the most common and lucrative trade on the Silk Road was for drugs. By 2013, 70% of the products for sale on the Silk Road were drugs. Like mainstream e-commerce platforms, Silk Road users could rate and review products and vendors. That's funny. That's fun. This helped promote reliable vendors and weed out fraudsters. That's funny. That's fun. This helped promote reliable vendors and weed out fraudsters.

That's great. Crack. In both senses of the word. For all two. And then you have to be in brackets, I'm Irish, by the way. I'm Irish. Otherwise, it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's terms of service banned the sale of anything whose purpose is to harm or defraud,

such as stolen credit cards, assassinations, and weapons of mass destruction. It's good that they've got boundaries. We draw a line. Okay, but a rocket launcher, that's fine. Fine, but mass destruction. But like a nuclear bomb. Launcher.

Come on, let's be serious people. For The Guardian, how good's this name, this journalist? Parmy Olsen. Fuck off. Parmy? Parmy. How's that spelled? T-A-R-M-Y.

Parmy. Parmy. What could it be short for? I think that's it. I think that's a self-contained name. Parmy. Or Parmigiana. Parmigiana Johnson.

Parmigiana Johnson. Olsen's also short for Johnson. Sorry. Parmigiana. Parmigiana Johnson. Parmigiana Johnson. Olsen. Olsen's also short for Johnson. Sorry. Parmigiana Olsen. I prefer Parmigiana Johnson. Me too. Oh, anyway, Parmigiana Johnson wrote. I'm going to name my first child Parmigiana Johnson.

Parmi wrote, Customers felt safe because they accessed the site via Tor, an anonymising network that up until recently was a reliable way to mask their tracks, even from the police. You never paid with credit cards or PayPal on Silk Road. The only acceptable currency was Bitcoin, an encrypted digital currency that couldn't be traced with no government or bank behind it.

I did not know that. That it couldn't be traced? No, it was only Bitcoin on the Silk Road even back then. Yeah, yeah. Because I wouldn't have heard of Bitcoin in 2011 or 2013. No, I don't think I would have either. And it's funny because, yeah, this article is quite old and that's why they're sort of explaining Bitcoin

more than probably needs to be now. But just in case. I mean, I couldn't have told you gun to my head that it was an encrypted digital currency that couldn't be traced with no government or bank i knew that last bit probably i don't think i did know but i've never looked that hard into bitcoin but apparently that isn't even entirely true apparently it's anonymous but i think you know it does leave some sort of trace wasn't the whole idea of it that it's on a i think you know it does leave some sort of trace wasn't the whole idea of it that it's on a blockchain and that's like a ledger that people can check forever and that's all public yeah it sounds like a thing that you can really track

you can track but you can't there's no name attached to it like a paypal or yeah right i'll just be like hey do you accept mastercard yeah it's easier for me yeah can i just have your bank details and i'll just direct transfer what about cash cash yeah if you're dropping around you're just taking it back to old school drug deals how about we just meet in an alleyway somewhere yeah that'd be great actually in the park across the road from my house so it's convenient for me uh i'll be wearing a red rose. Wearing a rose? And nothing else. Look for the naked man wearing a rose.

Hiding my shame with a red rose. They get to the park and they're like, fuck, there's like three of them. Hello? Are you Chris.w1997? Is that you, Chris? And, yeah, the other two forgot to take the thorns out. They're bleeding from the dick. I was imagining it, like, on your chest.

On your chest, leaving your dick hanging. Oh, yeah. Leave your dick free. Come on, Jess, bit of decorum. Why? My dick needs to breathe. Why must I always have decorum? While there are other sites that sell drugs,

the Silk Road's user-friendly interface and third-party payment system made it more popular than the others. It's just a better, yeah, user-friendly site where it just came up. You log in, it pops up, what do you want, drugs? Drugs. Big, colourful button. You click on it. Yeah.

Now, what drugs do you want? And you just tick all the boxes. It's just so easy. Oh, this girl's got a 93% positive rating. Oh. Okay. Okay. I'm going to read some reviews.

Oh. So, have you seen screenshots of what it looks like? Because I'm imagining it looks pretty basic, but does it look pretty good? It is pretty basic, yeah. But it does have all that info yeah attached which is yeah pretty well i'm so surprised about the review thing yeah it's so funny like yeah and that's why people liked it you go you buy from a street it's more dangerous you know assume it is well that's what anyway that's what people are saying, that this is supposedly a safer customer experience.

So Silk Road caught traction quickly, processing tens of millions of dollars of sales, making its mysterious owner a multimillionaire. And the media started taking notice too. According to Bilton, as early as June 2011, so only months after it started, Adrian Chen, then a writer for Gawker, published a story on the Silk Road, which prompted Senator Chuck Schumer to demand that the Department of Justice take down the site. Can you be a senator when your name is Chuck?

Senator Chuck. You can't be a senator when your name's Chuck. America's a different place. I think Chuck is quite a common name over there. I think it may be every third boy born in the 60s was named Chuck. And what's that short for? Chuckajana? Yeah.

Chuckajana Johnson. I like Chuck as a name. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. I hate it. It's the American shortening for Charles, right? Yeah.

Right on. Gotcha. I don't know. I'm just- They call Charles Chuck. I like Chuck. Chucky from Rugrats. True.

He was Charles. He was. And he could have gone on to be a senator. I've got no doubt about that. And was his dad Chaz? Yeah. But they were both Charles, technically. Probably, yeah.

Would you rather be a Chaz or a Chuck as an adult if you were both Charles? Chaz. Yo, I'm Chaz or a Chuck as an adult if you were both Charles? Chaz. Yo, I'm Chaz. Yo, I'm Chuck. You're a Chaz. 100% Dave is a Chaz. Oh, yeah, Charlie's obviously the superior option. I'm going with Chaz then.

I think, yeah, you're a Chaz. I think I like Chuck. Yeah, Dave is 100% a Chaz. Yeah, he's a Chaz. Chaz seems like a bodacious bro to me. No. Well, that's exactly why you're a Chaz. Yeah, that's why I choose Chaz. Really? Chaz seems like a bodacious bro to me. No. Well, that's exactly why you're a Chaz. Yeah, that's why I do, yeah.

I'm Chaz. I hang tan. Yeah. Give me some skin up top. These are all things you say frequently. Yeah, you're absolutely right. You're right. This is fitting in perfectly.

Okay, I'm ticking the box. So, anyway, Chaz Schumer, aka Chuck, aka Charlie, the senator, he's like like get it down Department of Justice take it down they're like we don't know where it is sort of like on a mystery internet we don't get it but subsequently take it down

take it down I don't know where it is I can't reach it subsequently dread pirate Roberts required that people who work for the site scan their real driver's licenses and passports to ensure they weren't undercover FBI agents. He was sounding a little paranoid about it. Oh, my God.

That feels like he's become the narc. Yeah, yeah. Wouldn't you? Yeah, you'd be like, hang on. And if I'm going to go onto that website, I'm not giving them my driver's license. That's ridiculous. Well, no, not anyone going on there.

This is just people who are working directly for the website. Okay, but not every seller has to do that. Yeah, exactly. I want to sell half a kilo of cocaine. Great, we'll just need your driver's license. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, and like assuming that people would even give their real license.

But anyway. But then how do they get a fake license if they can't even get on the website? Oh, no. So, you get on there with the real license, you get a fake license, and then you say, actually, this is my real license. You can get on as a customer. You can get on as a customer. So, maybe, yeah, you buy a fake license first.

Yeah, okay. Then use that. And hope they don't check your buying history which i guess there wouldn't be any yeah but on this criminal website there's a real honor system yeah uh in the gawker article that chen wrote he said making small talk with your pot dealer sucks buying cocaine can get you shot oh this is probably where i found I found out that drug dealing on the street is dangerous. Dangerous, right. What if you could buy and sell drugs online like books or light bulbs? I don't know what Chen's up to online in 2011. I'm not buying light bulbs online.

No, that's difficult. Yeah, and they're going to get smashed. Yeah. Just go to Bunnings. Yeah. Go to the supermarket. And that way you can take your old one and compare it to the new one. Make sure you're getting the right one.

I've also realised I have absolutely bought light bulbs online. I have actually too. Did you just have a little something go off that made you remember that? Yeah. How do you say? I don't know. I can't think of a- A memory.

I had a memory. A memory went off. I had a memory go off. I bought smart lights, like, yeah. Me too. Well, that don't feel- That don't feel- I was about to give you-

I was going to say, well, that don't feel appropriate for you, smart lights, but I said it in a way that didn't sound very smart. That don't go- You. You don't get smart light, dummy. Oh, give me another go. Fucking hell, you got me, man. Oh, you got me good.

Thank you. I feel like a Oh, you got me good. Thank you. I feel like a fool. Pretty stupid right now. I'm feeling pretty foolish. So, anyway, this Gawker article that Chen wrote is saying, you know, buying drugs on the street is dangerous. Imagine if you could buy it online. Well, now you can.

Welcome to Silk Road. He's basically advertising it and sales went through, like users and everything went through the roof. Chen, this is a cash for comment. What are we doing here? Yeah. He continued on to say, about three weeks ago, the US Postal Service delivered an ordinary envelope to Mark's store.

He's giving a little example of a user. I'm guessing Mark's not his real name. Inside was a tiny plastic bag containing 10 tabs of LSD. If you had opened it, unless you were looking for it, you wouldn't have even noticed, Mark told us in a phone interview. Mark, a software developer, had ordered the 100 micrograms of acid through a listing on the online marketplace Silk Road. He found a seller with lots of good feedback who seemed to know what they were talking about, added the acid to his digital shopping cart and hit checkout.

He entered his address and paid the seller 50 bitcoins, untraceable digital currency, worth around $150. Oh, my God, what's it worth now? Four days later. $150 for how many tabs? Ten. Sounds like a pretty good deal. I mean, this is 2011 money.

It seems cheap for drugs is all I'm saying. Yeah, I don't really know. But have you held on to that? What's that, Bitcoin worth like $2 million now? You know, there's some drug experts out there yelling at their iPods going- 15 bucks a tub? I get it for way better than that. That just seems cheap for drugs.

Yeah. I pay more for anti-inflammatories. Yeah, and that's not the bloody PBS. So, that just seems pretty cheap for drugs. Four days later, the drugs sent from Canada arrived at his house. Mark said, it kind of felt like I was in the future, which I think is beautiful. That's nice.

But, yeah, I think 150 bitcoins these days would be worth a lot more money. Was that comment about the future after he'd taken the LSD? Yes. I feel like I'm in the future and also I am a cloud. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Can we do this interview later? I'm enjoying this. So, it looks like one Bitcoin is currently worth nearly $17,000 US.

$50,000. So, Jess, you're still- I don't think that's a good deal. I think if you held onto those 50 Bitcoins- And if you'd sold them about 18 months ago. But here's the thing. This is what we do, isn't it? Yeah.

Where we go, I could spend money on a great experience. I could go on a holiday. I could go on a trip. And then later, you're like, oh, look what I could spend money on a great experience. I could go on a holiday. I could go on a trip. And then later you're like, oh, look what I could have done with that money now. But it's like, okay, you want to live your life doing nothing, going nowhere, sitting in your shitty little house saving. Not having LSD.

Squirreling every little cent away because one day it might be worth a bit more. Yes. Live your fucking life. Tomorrow's not guaranteed. I love looking at that screen and seeing a number on it. love looking at that number uh-huh and watching that number grow hey today's the present that's why they call it a gift you'd think this kind of attention from the media and a senator would mean dread pirate roberts

would have tried to keep a low profile. But according to Olsen, Parmi, Parmigiana. Parmigiana Johnson. They instead gave a handful of press interviews, unusual given their insistence on staying anonymous. Yeah. I don't know, just chatting to the media. In a 2011 interview, Dread Pirate said their worldview stemmed from the anachro-libertarian philosophy of agorism. According to definitions.net, agorism is a libertarian social philosophy that advocates creating a society in which all relations between people are voluntary exchanges by means of counter-economics,

thus engaging with aspects of peaceful revolution. This did not help me understand what it means. I have no idea what that means. Do you know what does that mean? Why are you looking at me? Look at Dave. It's like a barter system where I do something and you do something. We all contribute something.

Is that what it is? And that leads to a peaceful revolution. Okay, no, that makes sense. I trade my chicken for your pint of milk. And they mean the peaceful revolution is that just by us doing things differently, we fully change society. I get it. I think I get it now.

Is that what that is? But, I mean... That guy on LSD is absolutely screaming it is. Yeah. That's how everything started. Now, you know, thousands of years later, look absolutely screaming it is. Yeah. That's where everything started. Now, you know, thousands of years later, look where it got us. Yeah. To bloody the future.

It's like we're in the future right now. And as someone who has no real skills, I don't like that system. What am I offering you? Nothing. Practically. Nothing. Apparently stand up for the few things. Now.

That AI can't do. Yes. Okay. Great. Sadly, neither can Dave. That AI can't do. Yes. Okay, great. Sadly, neither can Dave. I know. Damn it. My internal computer. He's so bad.

See me at the Melbourne Comedy Festival. April. And Adelaide Fringe. Adelaide Fringe. Fantastic March. I'll also be at both those festivals. Jess will be at Melbourne. But you both can do comedy, so you don't need to advertise it.

That's right. We let our comedy do the talking., so you don't need to advertise it. That's right. We let our comedy do the talking. In fact, don't even bother. I'm probably already sold out. Oh, my gosh. Well done. Yeah. Yeah, congratulations.

Thank you. How did you do that before going on sale? I'm not surprised. I'm not good. Anyway, so he's doing interviews, and in another interview, he said, stop funding the state with your tax dollars and direct your productive energies into the black market okay that feels self-serving the market that i own yeah uh then in 2013 they told forbes in an interview that silk road's core role was a way to

get around regulation from the state they even hinted that silk road might head in the direction of selling weapons. Though this was a clear change from their earlier rule of not selling anything that could harm, they justified this by saying, quote, firearms and ammunition are becoming more regulated and controlled in many parts of the world. So, you know. Right. And also, I've looked into it. I could make heaps.

And soon enough, weapons were sold on the site. According to Bilton, despite their intent to disrupt the shady business of recreational drug purchasing, Silk Road became a hub for exchanging everything from hacking tools and drug lab equipment to cocaine and cyanide. People soon started selling Berettas and AK-47 assault rifles. There were even discussions of selling body parts, such as livers and kidneys. Business was booming.

How do we... Jess is agape. Are you worried about the body part part? Yeah, and to be fair, I was thinking arms. Just an arm. What do you pay for a left arm? I don't... Oh, yeah, another left arm would be handy, actually.

But you can't do anything with it, obviously. It just arrives. And then you've got to keep it on ice or it rots. Oh, yeah, no, I'm not... What are you paying to keep it on ice or it rots. Oh, yeah. What are you paying for it? Five bucks. Okay. That's pretty good. No, you've got to pay me five bucks. Oh. But nah, because then what am I going to do

with it? I don't have a small freezer. I know. People come around and you go, want to see an arm? Nobody would want that. I'd look at it. Would you? Yeah. David. You could just look down right now and see an arm. Yeah, look, you could see two of them. An awful unfrozen arm. Oh, okay.

I'll freeze your arm for you. Let's freeze your arm and then you can have the best of both worlds. Okay. We could even cut it. We could cut it off. Do you want us to cut your arm off and freeze it? Yeah. You'd have to otherwise it wouldn't-

Well, no, we just would freeze all of it. Otherwise it would hurt. No, it won't. You'll be numb because you'll be frozen. Yeah. I think if death being is a sort of numbness. Yeah. I think freezing to death just sort of feels like falling asleep.

Yeah. So it would just be like you're having a snooze while Matt and I stand over you. It's like a reverse frog in the pot scenario. Okay. It happens so slowly you don't even notice it. Yeah, that's from getting cold. So you never jump out of the freezer. Yeah.

Some thought the mysterious Silk Road boss was foolish for being interviewed, even if it was under the condition of anonymity. I don't know how you'd feel about that. Well, I mean, how anonymous can it be if you have to meet up with a journalist and a film crew? Unless he's wearing a mask. Is it filmed? No, not filmed.

Okay. Just in his own chat rooms or whatever. Okay. And is his voice like- Imagine, though. Hello. Yeah. It's me, Jed Parabasic.

I think he's just typing the words. But, yeah, I guess if you want to imagine- But how can you be sure it's him? This is fun to do, the voice, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. What does it sound like? Hello. I've been selling drugs online

for a long time now i'm thinking about doing human body parts as well what do people think about this huh that's good it's really fun to do well you two think it's a great idea but russian entrepreneur pavel durov told parmigiana olsen that he doesn't care for the Dread Pirates apparent thirst for notoriety saying if you're involved in something like that and everybody ignores you the officials ignore you and you ignore the officials it's okay it's like you don't exist Dread Pirate seems to have cared more about making an impact than in maintaining complete anonymity he reportedly took pains to keep himself anonymous going online through Tor and only communicating through the Silk Road chat system. The highest levels of government are hunting me, they told Forbes. I can't take any chances. But obviously, you know,

like the Russian Pavel Durov said, if you just stop taking interviews, they'll stop writing stories about you probably. Yes, and that feels like that is taking a chance, mate. I'll stop writing stories about you probably. Yes, and that feels like that is taking a chance, mate. Senator Chuck Schumer isn't finding out about it until it's written about in like a well-read online publication. Thank you so much, yes. But, yeah, so to me they were probably taking a few chances they didn't need to, but even if they weren't taking chances,

they were making mistakes, a few crucial errors oh fuck according to builtin no matter how many experienced hackers they had hired to tighten security on the silk road dread pirate like all programmers made mistakes programmers programmers it's not programmers programmers programmers yeah programmers i'm so it's i i mean you've probably noticed this but i hit the wrong syllables a lot classic classic bit of someone else's yeah my dad's friend rick yeah first time i heard that as a kid, I was like, that is... He puts the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable. Yeah, that's right. Rick, you comedy genius.

It's Mike Myers. Is it? Is that the original? No, I'm pretty sure Mike is covering my dad's friend, Rick. I think so, yeah. Yeah, but I do it... I honestly don't even do it to be funny. That's how funny you are.

That's how funny I am. It's just so inherent with you. Yeah. Some of us have to work so hard to be funny. That's how funny you are. That's how funny I am. It's just so inherent with you. Yeah. Some of us have to work so hard to be funny. Not me, obviously. Sportswoman of the year. It's one of my classics. One of your classics.

I still don't know how I'm saying that wrong. Anyway, sportswoman of the year. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. That was perfect. Damn it. Can we go back 10 years and I do another take?

Absolutely not. Bilton continues. Federal agents would eventually seize upon, among other things, an early coding error on the Silk Road that exposed the IP address of a coffee shop that Dredd Pirate frequented in San Francisco. Dredd, come on. You've got to go to different coffee shops.

You can't have a regular place. People also couldn't really believe this, that he was in California. He could be doing his job from anywhere in the world, maybe somewhere where the FBI can't get to him. Ah, I see. Right, you're saying that he moved to a non-extradition country. Potentially, yeah. Well, that's what some people thought.

Especially now you're, I imagine, a millionaire. Yeah, multi-multi. Molto-molto. All right. Benny. Is that you? You're just going to... So by this point, the FBI, as well as the IRS,

the Internal Revenue Service, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, and other agencies were all looking for the Silk Road founder. The IP address led to other revealing clues in their early coding. It was a long, slow process, but the FBI were closing in on their target. Interviewing people in that coffee shop. Are you Dread Pirate Roberts?

Are you Dread Pirate Roberts? No, fuck you. According to a CNN article by Tim Hume, one of the earliest online mentions of Silk Road dates to January 27, 2011, when a user under the handle Altoid made a post on a forum for users of magic mushrooms. This is what the post was. I came across this website called Silk Road. I'm thinking of buying off it.

Let me know what you think. That sounds like a completely natural post. Yep. Completely genuine. Yep. I've heard great things about this website. Hey, why don't you check it out? All my friends are doing Yep. I've heard great things about this website. Hey, why don't you check it out? All my friends are doing it.

I've heard it's fantastic. Maybe you should too. Yeah. I've just stumbled upon it myself. Didn't create it, that's for sure. Because it is difficult to get the word out initially, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. Uh-oh. People don't stumble across a dark web website doing the thought.

So hard to get to when you know how to get to it i assume two days later someone again using the handle altoid made a similar post on a forum called bitcoin talk uh recommending silk road and providing a link has anyone seen silk road yet it's kind of like an anonymous amazon.com i don't think they have heroin on there but they are selling other stuff i don't think they have heroin on there, but they are selling other stuff. I don't think they have heroin on there. Yeah, see, that's playing it really cool. He's not overselling it. Yeah.

Here's something they don't have, unfortunately. Yeah, a bit disappointing. Yeah, maybe one day. For the life of us, give feedback. Yeah. They love heroin. So, clearly the posts, or clearly they seem to be an attempt to drum up interest in Silk Road,

employing an online marketing tactic called astroturfing, which I hadn't heard that term before. Right, when you just try and do a natural post about something. Yeah, I guess so. Astroturfing. Investigators were given a major break when eight months later, Altoid made another post, posting on Bitcoin Talk, stating that he was looking for an IT pro in the Bitcoin

community to hire in connection with a venture-backed Bitcoin startup company. Pretty vague. That could be anything. Could be anything. But people who were watching did, you know, realize it was the same user, Altoid, who was doing that astroturfing before. And then the post asked any interested parties to contact Rossossalbright at gmail.com. Oh, Ross. Ross, Ross, Ross. It's so, so easy to set up a Gmail and you can name it anything. Yeah, rossalbright1.

Yeah. Throw them off the set. Throw them off the set. It's so easy. Sounds like Albright's a pretty ironic name, Ross Albright won. Yeah, throw him off the set. It's so easy. Sounds like Albright's a pretty ironic name, Ross. Unless it's not a real name. His real name's Ross Dumbshit. That's pretty clever.

That's clever. So, could this be the true identity of Dread Pirate? Hey, everyone, email me. Also, this is my address if you want to do a FaceFest interview. I also love this coffee shop. I frequent it frequently. I pay it with the money I make from Silk Road, which I founded. Oh, no.

Oh, God. I think I've said too much. Why doesn't this keyboard have a backspace? Oh, God. Oh, God. All of these clues, as well as other slip-ups, led federal agents to a guy quietly working away at his laptop one afternoon in October 2013.

Olsen, Parmigiana, takes the story back up from there. On a bright Tuesday afternoon at around 3.15pm, a handful of plain-clothed FBI agents climbed the stone stairs of Glen Park Library, an unobtrusive building on Diamond Street in San Francisco. They entered the library in staggered succession, gradually making their way towards its far corner, the science fiction section. There, sitting at one of the faux wooden tables, was a pale young man with dark-haired jeans and T-shirt. He was on his laptop chatting with someone online. Staff had not recognised the slim man with wide-set eyes,

but then people often came here to use the free public Wi-Fi. His name was Ross Albright. Oh, Ross. Ross. Also, how do they know where in the library to go? Libraries can be pretty big. Yeah. Imagine being like, okay, he's at the state library.

Yeah. Got it. That place is fucking huge. All right. He's a computer hacker. Science fiction section. So, all right. They've got their best FBI profilers on the case.

He's got floppy hair. He's going to want a dark corner. So, he's not going to be in the main area where everybody sits. That's clever. His eyes are probably wide set. Yeah yeah what a strange thing to say yeah they're i love how um the flat more flowery articles there's some that just go here's the crime committed here's what happened yeah but one the ones i like the ones you know the vanity fairs yeah and the uh this one's i think maybe guardian you know they really fluff it out a bit yeah He fidgeted with a silver ring on his right hand.

He's wearing jeans and a T-shirt. That's noteworthy because it's unusual. Oh, yes. Who dresses in such a way? What's he trying to tell the world? He's pale because he's inside all the time. Like a nerd would be. It says more than you think.

So anyway, so they find Ross Albright, a 29-year-old former physics and engineering student from Austin, Texas. Stay weird. There was a crash that sounded like someone had fallen onto the hard-tiled floor, the library staff later remembered. Poking their heads around the shelves, they found the young Albright pressed up against the window by what seemed to be several other library patrons it looked like at first a fight that's what the librarians are like they didn't realize they were

fbi agents they're like oh there's a brawl at the library have they gone undercover as like uh other nerds walking around in their jeans and t-shirt. Okay, yeah. A couple of cardigans. Hang on. Some glasses. That nerds looks like they've been outside. What the hell? Got a bit of a healthy glow to their skin. Yeah, FBI agents undercover. You could definitely buy them just being nerds, I'm sure.

Like, you know, undercover ticket inspectors on our trains. Yeah, coming in. They never stand up. Never at all. Walking to the library. Hello. I'd like one graphic novel, please. That I love. Love them. Love a graphic novel.

Yeah, I love undercover ticket inspectors. It's nice because it's so common to see a group of about five people always with one old man. Wearing cargo shorts. Yeah. And they- Sensible shoes. Clearly people that would never be hanging out

together yeah this must sound dystopian of people in other countries that we have undercover ticket inspectors it's so fucked so dumb it's so fucked uh anyway back to parmigiana's article where the fbi is the silent said i think that tipped off the librarians they were they said everything's under control soon albright was in handcuffs and chatting to several agents who blockaded him into a corner of the library. I like to think the librarian, they're like, don't worry, everything's under control. And the librarian's like, yep, but it's being a little noisy.

Yeah. Okay. And I noticed you knocked a couple of books off that shelf. I want them picked up and I want them put back in the right place. Please. Via the Dewey Decimal System. Please. Okay.

Please respect the system. I don't want to be coming back along here and be like, what the fuck is this book doing here? Okay? Okay. So, number one, keep it down. Number two, books back, please. Number three, always respect the work of Dewey.

Okay? Thank you. Probably Gary Dewey, was it? Gary Dewey. Gary Dewey. What a fantastic system. Yeah and we we thank gary dewey for it we thank him that's why this photo is up on the library wall every library in the world so he's he's cuffed he's chatting to the agents and they walked him out of the library

two of them returning not long after in blue fbi jackets they're like well now we can come back in uniform but to come back and be like it's okay folks we were fbi all along and they did they did a sweep of the area but they didn't find anything the person albright had been chatting to online according to the fbi had been a cooperating witness in their investigation oh okay a okay. A snitch. Yeah. Oh, so whereabouts are you sitting? Oh, science fiction section. No worries. What are you wearing? Yeah.

This was the result of more than a year of dogged cyber sleuthing and old-fashioned detective work. Yeah, they dogged him. News of the arrest broke the following day, the 2nd of October, 2013. Police claimed that Albright had been running Silk Road since 2011 and for the last year had done so from his home in San Francisco as well as a nearby cafe. They charged him with drug trafficking, money laundering and worse.

What's worse than drug trafficking or money laundering? I'll talk about that soon. What? A little sizzle. Oh, but I want to know now. Well, you're going to have to wait two, three minutes. That's how sizzle works. Because I am dying to find out what could be worse than drug trafficking

and the other one, money laundering. What could be worse? Drug laundering? Moida. Jess, please. Zip those lips. Think about like you're in a library and... Oh, okay, sorry.

So, they got their man, Albright. Matt, Matt, Matt. They got their man. Who did the rest of the episode whispering? Albright was Dread Pirate Roberts. Have you stand up and yell that out in the library? I am a Dread Pirate Roberts. Did he stand up and yell that out in the library? I am a Dread Pirate Roberts. Hoping that it would be a Captain, my Captain sort of situation.

He'd be like, shut the fuck up. I've got a physics exam tomorrow. No, he denied it. He said, that's not me. This is a frame up. I have no idea what you're talking about. No idea what you're talking about. I've never even seen The Princess Bride.

What are you- What the hell? Damn it. I've said too much. I've never even sold drugs online shit wait no that's right hang on no that's right yeah yeah sorry i've never done what you're saying so as it turned out the quite unassuming 29 year old creator of silk road was willing to do anything to protect his business but he said he didn't run okay even moira what what more on that soon oh my god you are the sizzle king this week i am dying over here the sizzle yeah well i'm melting but

before we get to that let's go back to the start according to bilton back in 2011 not although i'm not gonna do it it's gonna say it's been like 45 minutes this is crazy well you're gonna start again yeah love it i flubbed a few lines there i want to start again let's you know what i felt like my energy wasn't right let's start from the top uh according to bilton back in 2011 albright was making 300 a week as a lab researcher he was sleeping in a basement and his only belongings were two black garbage bags at the end of his bed, one full of clean clothes, the other dirty. So this is in 2011, the year he started the whole bloody thing. Wow, 300 bucks a week's not a lot.

Then a big idea dawned on him, no different from the ideas that spawned Uber, Airbnb, Twitter, or Facebook. Just like the 10,000 other entrepreneurs who land in San Francisco with a fantasy and a computer. Albright typed lines of code and out came a world that didn't exist before. What did he type it into? He's got no possession. Did he type it into a garbage bag? What's he typing into it? Yeah, Phil's might have-

The garbage bag was also his girlfriend. Overexaggerated his lack of belonging. So, he went over to his personal vending machine, got a nice cream soda, cracked it open, and got onto one of his several MacBook Pros. He attended Penn State University, where he studied material science and engineering, so maybe he was using one of their computers.

Okay. Dave. Right. I don't know. According to Bilton, Albright developed an affinity for Ayn Rand. A-Y-N? Ayn Rand. Ayn Rand.

Ayn Rand. The writer. The writer, that's right. And he was also into libertarian philosophy. He appeared to view the world not as it was per se, but as he wanted it to be. Albright adhered to a particularly defiant strain of Randian dogma. The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me. Oh.

Somebody stop me. In political debate clubs and at the Corner Room Diner on campus, the young Albright fixated on the ostensible inconsistencies in how the US government determined what was and what was not legal. Big Macs led to diabetes and heart attacks, he would often argue. Oh, God, you're the fucking worst person to be stuck in a room with. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ.

So, why wasn't McDonald's lawful? Cars facilitated tens of thousands of casualties per year, he noted, yet they remained highly unregulated and were capable of going several times the speed limit. What do you want to just walk everywhere? Shut the fuck up. Shut up. The same was true for alcohol and cigarettes, which have killed millions.

So why, Albright provoked, were recreational drugs illegal? Now, he's not suggesting any of those things become illegal. He's suggesting that everything basically becomes legal. Okay. Everything, you know, it's your choice if you want to if you want to have drugs you can have drugs personal choice and that sort of stuff uh to albright it seemed like an arbitrary distinction weren't people inevitably responsible for what they put in their own bodies be it fast food booze cigarettes or say marijuana i've heard of it. The spicy leaf.

I couldn't think of a real- Spicy leaf. I can think of a real nickname for it. Spicy leaf. The spicy leaf. Yeah, you nailed it in one. How about we- Hey, come over tonight.

I'll order some Zahn. We'll have some spicy leaf. The real problem with the drug business, he surmised, was that it was violent and opaque. So he came up with the germ of an idea. What if there was a website, like Yelp, that rated buyers and sellers so that exchanges would be fair and more transparent? There would be fewer fatal overdoses, he reasoned.

But Albright wasn't simply a precocious and edgy libertarian. He was also a gifted, self-taught computer programmer. Programmer. Programmer. Programmer. And so, like many bright kids in their 20s, Albright eventually headed to San Francisco to develop his company. It's funny because normally people go there and they're doing it in the open,

having meetings about getting funding and stuff. Yeah. It was going there to go to a cafe. Yeah, the whole reason to go to this big, expensive city is to get those connections, right? But he's trying to do it on the download. Yeah. So, he didn't have to go to San Francisco at all.

I don't think so. But maybe. Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. But it doesn't seem like it to me. But I'm but a simple man. You are so stupid. So, you probably don't get it within 18

months of the operation the silk road was processing 500 000 per week in sales and albright was sitting on millions in cash does he getting like a little cut he gets a little cut from every sale that's right how sorry well how quickly was this uh this is in the first 18 months wow but it was really happening even you know even quicker than that he was making yeah he was he made millions in the first year that's wild i wouldn't mind making a million dollars in a year yeah if i mean if he could go back i reckon he you do it for six months make a lifetime's fortune get out yeah just shut it down yeah disappear like the wind.

But that's not how it works. You get some money and you're like, yeah, but I could have more money. You know? This is the last big, what do they say? This is her last big job. Yeah. One out of the business. One last job.

It's his first and last job. Yeah. If the Silk Road was valued by traditional venture capitalists, it would have been among the most successful startups in Silicon Valley history. Whatever reservations Albright may have had seemed quickly overwhelmed by his ambitions to keep the site growing. When he launched Silk Road, Albright had daydreamed that perhaps a few people might see it. Almost immediately, however, it became a phenomenon. however it became a phenomenon he started with a mentor who operated on the silk road under the name variety jones they went by a bunch of different names but i'm just going to refer them as variety jones albright never met him in real life jones gained albright's trust when he pointed out a major security hole in the site he's like hey by the way yeah okay people can just steal so much bitcoin from you if you don't fix this up. And he's like, huh, thank you.

Thank you for not stealing a bunch of Bitcoin from me. I will fix that up. So, yeah, they ended up chatting a lot and he basically was his criminal mentor. Aw. That's actually quite nice. That's nice. His deal was he sold seeds, I think like marijuana seeds. That was Variety Jones' main thing.

Because, you know, give a man a fish. Oh, yeah. Give a man a fish. Here's the fish. What am I meant to do with this? Is it alive? Smoke it. You know what I mean?

You teach a man to grow his own fish. Hey, you planted? A little greenhouse out the back. The rest is up to you. Growing fish in the ceiling. Back to Bilton. When he shared his charts and graphs showing sales and revenue with Variety Jones, it was apparent that the

company would earn $100 million in sales in its first year. After Jones did the maths, he predicted that the site would earn $1 billion in sales the following year. It might grow by a multiple of 10 by 2014. Obviously, it never got that far. Oh, spoilers. If it kept going, it would be the biggest company in history. And as the sole owner of the site, Albright reaped all of the profits directly.

During the course of 2012, as Albright attempted to come to terms with the scale of his creation, he formally hired Variety Jones to become his de facto CEO coach, paying him as much as 60 grand per session. Variety Jones was also the Princess Br princess bride fan he was the one who suggested that right i think before that he was just using the name admin and um variety jones like it'll give the impression that you know it could be any people all these people are using it yeah so it's sort of a oh that's pretty fun yeah a bit of fun. Because when I see admin, I think one person. Absolutely, yeah. It's not possible that admin could be multiple people.

Admin Williams is their name. Yeah. Oh, hello. Hello, admin. Ms. Williams. So, the seed salesman is now getting paid 60 grand a session. A session. That's pretty good for a seed salesman.

Yeah. He was a very experienced, very wealthy drug dealer, seed salesman. Sell a lot of seeds. And he talked about how he was living. He was always on the move and he was suggesting maybe that's a good idea for Albright as well. Why don't you listen to your mentor, man? You're paying him 60 grand.

You should at least listen to what they're saying. If anybody wants to pay me 40 grand a session i'll coach you okay what are you coaching oh great undercutting variety yeah come on fantastic that's how business works oh backstabbing a race to the bottom until no one gets paid anything at all for telling people how to sell drugs great yeah you're a real piece of work thank you can i have forty thousand dollars please yes You're a real piece of work. Thank you. Can I have $40,000, please? Yes. Back to Bilton. At first, Jones wanted to ensure that the creator of the site knew what was at stake.

And this is... So, the FBI ended up with all their communications. And this is a quote from him. Not to be a downer or anything, Jones wrote to albright in a secure chat room on the site but understand that what we're doing falls under u.s drug kingpin laws which provides a maximum penalty of death upon conviction the mandatory minimum is life but by that point albright seemed concerned more with the growth of his company than with its collateral damage. He replied, balls to the wall and all in, my friend. Oh.

That's badass. What the hell? Hell yeah. I'm going to go put my balls on that wall. What does balls to the wall mean? Well, what you just said. You're going to put your balls on the wall? Why?

Well, it's just, you know, it's like one of those weird, like a handshake seems weird the first time you do it. But putting your balls on the wall. The same. I probably just feel naturally stop questioning it. In the business, it's just a business thing. When you're all in, everyone just goes up and puts their balls on the wall. Is there one specific wall that's always used?

The ball wall. Yeah, every large company worth its weight has a ball wall. Which one's our ball wall? Oh, this company's not worth its weight. Absolutely not. We're not there yet. Really? Do you think we're balls to the wall all the way in?

Can I put tits to the mitts or something? If you think we're ready. I just want to participate. Yeah. Well, I mean, Dave and I have not put our ball – well, I can't speak with Dave. I've never put my balls on a wall. Oh, I have. I've put my balls on a wall. Oh, I have.

I've dipped my toes on a wall. What? Fuck. That's weird. Keep your toes away from our ball wall. Freak. I'm more of a toe dipper than a ball waller. Okay, freak.

Yeah. Oh, gross. All right. Whatever you're into, but that's weird. We have a business, not weird stuff. Well, anyway, all broads balls are to the wall. But it's not good, is it, when, I don't know, you do eventually get caught and they're like,

you were clearly aware of what you were doing, what the risks are. You can't even say, oh, no, I didn't know. You've literally written down what we're doing could result in this. Yeah. Damn. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water.

We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. As Dread Pirate Roberts, he was featured in stories on websites like Forbes and Gawker. And at the same time, Albright lived modestly, running his multi-million dollar

website anonymously from coffee shops and libraries throughout San Francisco, wearing, get this, a t-shirt and jeans. Yuck. He lived in a share house and his housemates didn't know what he was up to. If they ever asked what he was doing on his laptop all day, he told them he was a foreign currency trader. According to Bilton, by early 2013, Albright was encountering his first major management crisis. One Silk Road employee, a family man in central Utah, had been arrested in a cocaine deal, and Albright believed he'd stolen $350,000 of his money through one of these sort of security loopholes. He just skimmed a bunch of Bitcoin. Albright treated security as his top priority.

He discussed everything on a secure chat application. And after the alleged theft, he consulted Variety Jones, his mentor. The first solution seemed the easiest, to simply pay the employee, Curtis Green, a visit and subsequently scare him into returning the stolen money. The second solution involved beating Green up for his treason. Has Green been arrested? Yes.

So, are you going to visit him in jail and say, hey, give me the money back? I think he's out on bail. Oh, okay. You've got millions of dollars. Are you going to go talk to this guy that's been arrested for doing your stuff? Well, he was nervous that the site was based on trust and scruples. That's what he was thinking.

So, if the word got out that this guy got away with it, then it would be a slippery slope and everyone would start taking cash. So, he feared that neither of these options would work. For days, he ummed and aahed over the decision. Like, he was basically a computer geek. Was he really capable of being involved in such violence? Well, according to Bilton, Albright had imagined that it might all come down to this one day, that at some point during the prodigious rise of his hot tech startup, he would be obliged to

make a terrifyingly ruthless decision. Now in early 2013, that time had arrived. The question was rather simple. Was he ready to kill someone to protect his billion-dollar company? After a few days, Variety Jones messaged Albright. So, you've had time to think, he wrote. You're sitting in the big chair and you need to make a decision. He's basically saying... What's it going to be? What's it going to be?

We're going to go all in and kill this guy? Albright finally replied, I would have no problem wasting this guy so albright organized a hitman for the murder of curtis green after paying for the hit he asked for proof of death according to olsen when he saw the photos he stated i'm quote a little disturbed but i'm okay i'm new to this kind of thing is all he added I don't think I've done the wrong thing That sounds like someone trying to convince themselves Oh I haven't done the wrong thing

I'm fine with this aren't I Am I fine with this Oh my god Yeah Albright kept the photographic proof of the dead green in a folder on his computer I'm pissed that he turned on me Albright told the hitman I'm pissed I had to kill him I just wish more people had some integrity

And the hitman's like I don't need to hear any of this. I'm just doing the job. You don't have to. That's fucking bonkers. You don't have to tell me all these details. I don't need to know. He's like, yep, cool. Let me know if you need any more done.

I don't work Sundays. So he thought that he had to do this because more people would steal from him? Yeah, that's right. He had to send a message. Who cares? It's real mafia sort of sounding stuff. You've got so much cash, you're not even spending it. You're still living out of a garbage bag in a share house.

Hey, that's my girlfriend you're talking about. This was his hope. He was going to restore order by killing this employee of his great but according to builtin that's not really what happened it didn't quite work out that way things moved fast in the technology business and within a few years the silk road had simply become ungovernable it was growing so rapidly that it became a more vulnerable target outside hackers started knocking its servers offline for ransom, anywhere from $10,000 to $100,000. Then others on the site became brazen

and started trying to blackmail Dread Pirate Roberts as well. Bilton continues. Within a short period, Curtis Green's murder would go from an exception to a playbook. Throughout early 2013, while tapping on his keyboard in public libraries and coffee shops, Albright would hire hit men to murder drug dealers and hustlers who tried to steal from him. Oh my god. Far out. Yeah, wild, right? Just a slippery slope from... Yeah. He started out just wanting to make buying drugs a bit easier. Yeah, that's right. I want a better society.

Now he's like, kill that guy, kill him, kill her. Yep, yep, good. That's crazy. There was one chat with someone else who worked with him who was like, hey, I don't really agree with murder. It sort of goes against our beliefs a bit. And they're like, but the same person said something like, but maybe what he's done almost deserves assassination.

It's weird how they sort of in this weird bubble that they- Far out. And Variety Jones is sort of encouraging that sort of ruthlessness as well. He grew more paranoid as time went on, creating fake identities and planning for a potential escape from America after talking to Jones, applying for citizenship in countries that would offer sanctuary for him and his fortune. He asked for his mentor Variety Jones' advice about heading overseas to avoid the FBI. And according to Andy Greenberg, writing for Wired,

Jones advised him to make sure your plan includes at least two backup locales. Jones added the cost and wait times for citizenship in various island nations. For instance, Dominican Republic, 24 months, 10 grand, get you a citizenship. Bahamas, four months, 280 grand, he wrote. You can never have too many passports. I plan on collecting passports like Pokemons. Gotta get them all. Yeah, no, we got it. He's got to catch them all, idiot.

He didn't say it right. Fuck. Get it right. idiot you didn't say it right fuck get it right he yeah if if he if he ever heard of that being read out in court he'd be like damn i'm so bad i know i just said the wrong thing i know what it is i'm a big fan i can name them all pikachu charmander etc shit i'm gonna restore my reputation in this courtroom i don't think you've convinced anyone by saying Pikachu. Even I don't know that one. Squidly dinks and flippy flops.

See, I don't know those. Jess has convinced me. Nice. Back to Greenberg's article. At another point, Jones brought up the possibility that Albright could be arrested, suggesting, seemingly in all seriousness, that they should have a backup plan to break him out of prison if necessary. Okay. What? This is a quote from Jones.

One of the things I'd like us to look at investing in is a helicopter to a company. Seriously. With the amount of dollars we're generating, I could hire a small country to come get you. And remember that one day when you're in the exercise yard, I'll be the dude in the helicopter coming in low and fast i promise these fucking nerds they live in a real fantasy aren't they in their minds oh the video games they've played the drugs they've done i think we i don't think america would protect the airspace over their jails at all would they just know that

every time you go out into the exercise yard could be the time that I'm hanging out of a helicopter with my arm outstretched to save you. Yelling, I got you, brother. I've been watching a lot of Tom Cruise. Monkey grip and away we fly. It's the strongest grip. I've never worked out a day in my life,

but I'm confident I can hold it. That I'll be able to fly the helicopter myself and also hang out of it too. No, Dave, I can hire a small country to come and get you. That's what, there's so much, there's books and all sorts of things. Like, I'd recommend people read Bilton's book if they find this interesting. Also, that Abamon article on WIDE is quite lengthy and it's awesome as well. And there's so many more bits of their conversations. At one point after Variety Jones had smoked a little bit of the old spicy leaf.

Ooh. He talked about how- I wonder if you were thinking devil's lettuce. Yeah, probably. That's what I was thinking. Spicy leaf. Yes. Anyway, sorry.

The devil's lettuce. That's what I was thinking. Spicy leaf. Yes. Anyway, sorry. The devil's lettuce. Every time my wife and I are out and we smell it, we go, ooh, someone's burning the devil's lettuce.

It's so fun to say. Yeah, so he's talking about one time he messages Albright saying, I think I've seen the future and it's Silk Road. My grandson in the year 2450. I don't know how old he thinks. Anyway, and he's like, it'll just be the reality then. Silk Road. Oh, my God.

Wow. Real deep stuff. I mean, if someone's paying me 60 grand, I'm telling them whatever they want to hear. Yeah. Oh, man, you'll be president. Yeah. If you want.

I'll pick you up from the helicopter, break you out of jail, drop you off at the White House. Put you in the big chair. Yeah, that's right. The even bigger chair. So, yeah, so wild. I'm looking forward to- Like, obviously, we know he's going to get arrested. I'm looking forward to the helicopter scene.

I'm sure Friday Jones is going to do it. Can't wait. Can't wait for us to learn that his real name is Joe Biden. He did become president. So, they were clearly feeling the pressure And it was affecting him in different ways They were talking about all sorts of precautions And wild contingency plans as the paranoia grew I mean, just leave

Yes Get on a plane tomorrow Yeah, you should just Fly first class and then think about it Yeah, continue planning somewhere else. Yeah, but you keep going to your regular coffee shop. Anyway. And, of course, as it turned out, the paranoia was justified.

The feds were on to him. When he needed to buy fake IDs, he was obviously able to do so using his own website. Yeah, that is handy. And according to Alex Hearn writing for The Guardian, in July 2013, a package from Canada was intercepted at the border as part of a routine mail search and found to contain nine fake IDs, each with a different name but all with a photo of the same person, Albright. Homeland Security was duly dispatched to the address the parcel was headed to and found Albright there.

And he, according to the feds, volunteered that hypothetically anyone could go to a website named silk road on tour and purchase any drugs or fake identity documents the person wanted so for the reason he's what he's still spruiking yeah that's how he answered the door hello anybody could do this uh what hello but yeah it's so he's like he's going like it's not a big deal. Anyone could do this on this website. I'll show you how to log into it.

No big deal. So, yeah, it was kind of walking this tightrope between being paranoid but also being super brazen about it. And is he in lots of trouble for ordering nine fake IDs and being busted for it? A small amount of trouble. Wow. Yeah. According to Hume, the FBI claimed he even publicly alluded to his alleged

criminal enterprise on his linkedin profile which he maintained oh my god as if it was maybe some time after all this gonna slide back into the legitimate business world where he was making 300 bucks a week yeah so i mean it wasn't out and out hey i run this website, but after you know, it's clear. He described how his goals had shifted in accordance with his libertarian economic views since leaving grad school. And his profile also stated that since completing his studies in 2010, he is focused on creating an economic simulation to give people a firsthand experience of what it would be like to live in a world without the systemic use of force of the kind imposed by institutions and governments. He's basically-

He's describing Silk Road without- Right, without force. He's pretty vaguely describing- This is a man who murders people that disagree with him, though. Yes. No force. Yeah, yeah. No force necessary in the future.

Yeah, yeah. Obviously, if you piss me off, I will kill you. What do you call it when it's in your mind, you're somehow able to separate the reality from what you're doing? Cognitive dissonance. Yes. Cognitive dissonance. That's right.

Yeah. It feels like he's got that In a big way Yeah So it's wild that the FBI Would have rocked up And said You order these fake IDs But they didn't know at the time

That he was the big dog Yeah well I don't think It probably wasn't the FBI That were involved in this The people who rocked up to his house Just were the people Who intercepted the package I might have said FBI

But it probably wasn't even the FBI It was the postal service Saying is this you? Yeah yeah It was the post who intercepted the package. I might have said FBI, but it probably wasn't even the FBI. It was the Postal Service saying, is this you? Yeah, yeah. It was the postman. Rocked up. The FBI also noted that Albright and Dredd Pirate Roberts were both vocal adherents of the libertarian theories of Austrian school economist Ludwig von Mises,

with Albright's public Google Plus account linking to YouTube videos posted by the Ludwig von Mises with Albright's public Google Plus account linking to YouTube videos posted by the Ludwig von Mises Institute and Dread Pirate Roberts repeatedly crediting von Mises with providing the philosophical underpinnings for Silk Road. Oh, no. Don't tell me you got brought down because he used Google Plus. One of the few people on Earth to use it. Hopefully, I'm saying Ludwig von Mises, right? M-I-S-E, yeah. Mises. Mises.

That's a Pokemon. Oh, yes. But, yeah, he... So, he's just... These little things that are providing a bigger picture. Any of these things in isolation, you probably wouldn't be too worried about, but all these little things a lot of

coincidences adding up and so it's fair to say while he was clever in a lot of ways he also had many deficiencies as a criminal mastermind as built and wrote while albright may have been a talented coder and fledgling manager he was certainly not qualified to be running a criminal operation for instance the person whom he had hired to murder Curtis Green in Utah, as it turned out, was actually a DEA agent named Karl Mark Force, DEA being the Drug Enforcement Administration. Is that nominative determinism right there? Force, yeah. Yeah, he joined the Force.

So, Force had won Albright's trust posing as a user named Knob. Knob contacted him offering to buy the whole operation. Do you reckon they had a bit of a committee about that? Knob. It's so bad, he will never think this is a Fed. I can't believe we even got it. How did we get Knob? I thought we were going to have to get, like, Knob 69.

But that was taken. That one was taken. But Knob on its own. How did we get Knob? I thought we were going to have to get like Knob 69. But that was taken. That one was taken. But Knob on its own. We're the only Knob. And he says he offered to buy the whole Silk Road. Yeah. He's like, I want it. The message was like, look, I'll get to the point.

I love what you've done. I'm a big fan. I want to buy it. According to Joshua Behrman, writing for WIDE, so when Knob offered to buy the operation, Albright counted with quite a price, $1 billion. Ooh. Knob scoffed.

He literally wrote scoff. That's a good name, Knob scoffed. That's like Bon Scott. Knob scoffed. But in fact, Albright's number might have been low. The scale of Silk Road's commissions over the next year would in fact qualify Albright to be one of the biggest entrepreneurs of the second internet boom. If it was a legit company, it probably could have sold for a lot more than that.

Right. But you're doing a billion dollar deal with a man called Nob. That's right. Besides, he told Nob, this is more than a business to me. It's a revolution and it's becoming my life's work. In essence, Albright faced a classic founder's dilemma. It would not be easy to pass the baton without hurting the enterprise, he messaged Nob. And right now, that is more important to me than the money.

And while the offer was ultimately rejected a relationship was struck up between knob and dread pirate roberts force and albright initially albright asked knob to torture green to convince him to comply so it's funny that he's gone from um hey you're gonna buy the site i don't know if it's under a different name or what but it was talking to the same this same guy because that is yeah wild to be like, yes, I'm a billionaire. I could buy a company. Yeah, sure, for a little bit of cash, I'll torture a man for you. Yeah.

Well, I guess he was saying he'd organise it. You know, he wouldn't probably do it personally. And Force, aka Knob, went to great lengths to stage the torture, filming it as proof. As Bearman wrote, Force got Green to sign a waiver. So, Green's now working with force great so so albright's like going i'm saying this to knob who was force he's gone i'm nervous that green's gonna turn and force is like yeah i made him turn but he's not saying that obviously so he's he's confiding

in the guy who made green turn that he's worried that Green would turn and that he needed to do something about it. So, he said, let's torture him and say, you better not talk about this to anyone. Force got Green to sign a waiver, thereby commencing his role in an impromptu stage torture sting against Albright. Soon, Green was being dunked in a bathtub of a Marriott suite by phony thugs who are in fact a secret service agent and a Baltimore postal inspector. Force recorded the- What? Why is there a postal inspector here?

He's just- that's just who Force got together to be- he must have- They were having a boys weekend anyway, and he's like, boys, help me out with this video for work, and then we'll hit the slots. You said slots? Yes. Yes. Yes. Is that legit, though? Yeah.

Like he signed it off with his boss. Yeah, we'll get the postal guys in on it. You'll find out later that Force doesn't always do things by the book. That can be fun or terrifying. Yeah. Well, I mean, this feels like it's got to be crossing some lines, right? Yeah. So, Green said, yeah, I'll do this.

But they really went all the way. So, he did it, dunked him in the bath, you know, so he's gasping for breath, pulling him out. Green comes out gasping, going, did you get it? Wheezing on the floor. And he felt like their simulation was a little too accurate. They dunked him four more times to get a convincing shot so they basically were torturing him we need from different angles yeah i need some cool transitions i think it's star wipe yeah it's actually just makes it look really cool so there's a plane overhead during that last one

really ruining the mood uh but like we didn't quite hit the line on that one. What I need to hear from you, Green, is... So, Albright, he'd asked for this torture, but as we heard earlier, he soon changed his mind after talking to Variety Jones and he upped his request to murder. Okay. Force, okay, Knob, was taken aback.

According to Behrman, it was like Scarface on Fast Forward, Force thought, but he played right along. Over a week or so, Force conspired with his team to complete the fake death of Green. Force sent Albright photos of the staged torture, followed by photos of Green face down on the floor, pallid, smeared with Campbell's chicken and stars soup,

the supposed aftermath of asphyxiation. So, this photo that Albright had kept in his computer, proof of death, thinking it was all bloodied and gross, that was Campbell's soup. No way. Yeah. What an ad for Campbell's soup. I can't believe they do this shit in real life. It sounds like a Razor, the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Oh, my God. Green holed up in his house.

He obviously had to stay out of sight as part of the ruse in a kind of self-imposed witness protection, and Force went back to Baltimore. Albright sent 40 grand to a Capital One account controlled by the government as an advance, and then when he got the proof, he sent another 40 grand. So, he spent 80 grand on the hit. Amazingly, Force became so familiar with how Silk Road ran, this is Nob,

along with an agent from the Secret Service, he ended up stealing $1.5 million from the site. Why? Like with just personally, not with- Personally, yeah. Okay, Nob. So, he has gone rogue. He went full rogue.

According to Sarah Jong writing for Vice, between 2012 and 2013, force alternated between attempting to extort Albright and selling law enforcement intelligence to him. And after Albright's arrest, he continued to seize Bitcoins using his DA authority and then laundered it to his own personal accounts rather than giving it to the government he ended up getting busted and was

sentenced to six and a half years in jail whoa yeah that's that's wild yeah this story there's so many bits of this story that's like wait what i think you just get so sucked in with stuff like this and when you're dealing with that much money, it does make people go a little bit nuts. Yeah. It really makes people like make some pretty bad decisions. Whoa, that's full on. So anyway, it all unraveled for Albright a couple of years after it started.

He had about nearly three years of running the site. When he was found on that Tuesday afternoon in the library, he was caught red-handed chatting to someone on Silk Road, who was an informant, basically. Tens of millions of dollars in Bitcoin were found on his laptop as well. Back to Olsen. By Thursday, the FBI had shut down Silk Road. Anyone who attempted to access the site saw a large digital poster

saying it had been seized by authorities. Police also took possession of a digital wallet belonging to Albright, allegedly, containing thousands of Bitcoins. To date, it is reportedly worth $34.5 million, and it's thought that more of the Dread Pirate's takings are still at large online. They claimed Albright was making... This is the report from the time as well, so the money has got a lot bigger since then. They claimed Albright was making 20 grand a day on sales commissions, amassing a total of 80 million, much of which was reportedly going back into maintaining Silk Road operations. The whole Silk Road enterprise had reportedly seen $1.2 billion in sales in its existence and nearly 1 million anonymous customers, making it perhaps the world's biggest online marketplace for drugs. I was surprised by that line.

I'm like, surely that would definitely be. Right? On Thursday morning, a young San Francisco resident picked up a copy of the Examiner newspaper and was startled to see Albright on the front page. He took a photo with his phone and texted it to his housemate. Funny, he said. Looks kind of like our housemate. Funny, he said. Looks kind of like our housemate. Not looks like, his friend replied. Is. He sent back a link to a news article

and the descriptions of a Texas University physics grad who had worked as a foreign currency trader. Holy shit, came the reply. The two men, who named themselves only as Drew and Brandon in an interview with Forbes, had been living in the house where Albright was renting a room for $1,200 a month cash. They explained that Albright had applied for a room on Craigslist, identifying himself as Josh. That's clever. That's why they didn't look at the article and say, that's his name too. Yeah, yeah. A Texas man who was good-natured and clean and tidy.

He had no mobile phone and chose to pay in cash. The housemates weren't suspicious because Josh had just moved from Sydney, Australia. And I think he actually had spent some time in Sydney. Oh, why didn't you mention that sooner? Just loves it when we talk. An Australian link. Dang it, I'm on Bondi Beach.

Whoa. Did Josh have a fake Aussie accent? Like totally dude No I don't think so He was saying he was from Texas But he just spent time in Australia You don't immediately get the accent And that explains why he didn't have a mobile phone Yeah that's right We don't have them

His housemate Brandon Said he seemed like a normal guy That explains why he didn't have a mobile phone. Yeah, that's right. We don't have them. No. We're behind. His housemate, Brandon, said he seemed like a normal guy. He was friendly and polite, had few possessions. Obviously, his- Garbage girlfriend. Garbage girlfriend. Garby. Garby. And spent most of his time in the master bedroom on his computer,

engaging in what he claimed was currency trading. Right. Was that his bedroom? It wasn't Brandon's bedroom. Yeah, I shoot. Because, i shoot because yeah the master bedroom he's like i'll be taking this uh the one oddity they noted was which i found so funny that this was mentioned josh liked to walk around without a shirt at home in his share house bit of a scoop there i mentioned that in. Actually, there was one thing that made me... Is that noteworthy? No, surely not.

That's absolutely not noteworthy. It's in California, right? Yeah. It's quite hot a lot. He reportedly almost never went out spending America's 4th of July holiday at home and cooking steak dinners for one. For all the money he allegedly made, Albright seemed to have spent very little of it at all. Lame. This is also from Olsen. Albright seemed to have spent very little of it at all. Lame.

This is also from Olsen. Albright had family back in Austin. Stay weird. But housemates said he had cut off ties with friends. His grandmother, when she first heard about his arrest, seemed nonplussed about the whole affair. She told Forbes that Albright was, quote, pretty good with computers. So, yeah, it makes sense. She's like, yeah, check this out.

That kid's always online. You know, computers make people take out hits on strangers. Yeah. I don't understand what it is he does, but I know he does a great job. He does a great job. We're very proud. His half-brother, Travis, called him an exceptionally bright and smart kid. Close friend and former housemate, Rene Pinnell,

told The Verge that police had messed up. I'm sure it's not him, they said. No one close to Albright seemed to believe the low-key young scientist was the notorious pirate behind Silk Road. And Bilton writes a fair bit about this gulf between how Albright was seen by those who knew him and the actions he took running Silk Road. It sounds like Bilton's sort of trying to get it straight in his head as well. How does someone go from this to that so quickly? And he wrote, Albright had never imagined that his sight would spawn all of these evils. He truly believed he was making the world a better place with it.

I spoke to dozens of people who knew him through all phases of life and work, and they said he was kind, compassionate, and caring. He still stopped to help old ladies cross the street, surprised friends with thoughtful gifts and always used the word fudge instead of fuck in emails and in conversations, even while he was running the site, but Albright changed as the Silk Road did. The line between what was right and what was wrong got moved a little each day, until there was a chasm between the two and it was impossible to know where Ross Albright ended and Dread Pirates Roberts began. If there was a chasm between the two and it was impossible to know where ross albright ended and dread pirates roberts began if there was one thing that stood out it was albright's

inability to see how his creation was being used for evil even when he was the one committing the sin so yeah it's a quite a fascinating like study into how fucked humans can get. I'm also a little disappointed he really hadn't spent any of the money. Because surely you know that this can't last forever. Right. Like, you have to get caught eventually. So, you may as well live it up in a cool place with the jacuzzis for a bit, you know? Drive a Lambo. Do something fun.

Yeah, do something fun. Don't live with housemates. Yeah, I guess, yeah. Like, even in, at least in small ways. Because, you know, you can bring attention to yourself, I assume, by living it up housemates. Yeah, I guess, yeah, like, even in- at least in small ways, because, you know, you can bring attention to yourself, I assume, by living it up too much. But you can all- I mean, he's probably, you know, overdoing that. Yeah.

Living it quiet. But it seems like- If you're going to live quiet, do it in a- what did you say? With a country without extradition. Yeah. Yeah. But also, like, it seems like he didn't really have friends. Like, he was living with these strangers he met on Craigslist.

Yeah. So, why not just have, like, an apartment? You're at home or at a cafe all day anyway. Yeah. Who's actually going to notice that you're suddenly living in a fancy house? Yeah, I wonder why. Yeah, I wonder what the logic was there. Maybe he liked having a few other people around that he didn't necessarily have to keep up relationships with.

I don't know. Yeah. Would you guys be sus if, like, all of a sudden I just moved to a mansion? Yes. Would you? Well, I'd wonder what happened. Someone die? That's rude.

Someone die and leave you their haunted mansion? That's a rude question. My first question would be, Jesse, are you some sort of computer hacker? Oh. There we go. These are the questions you should be asking. Oh, my God. Not who died. That's very rude. Yeah. attacker oh there we go that's these are the questions you should be asking oh my god not who

died that's very rude yeah knocking on jess's mansion door oh who died who died someone died someone died leave you this someone haunting this that's wild yes so albright himself denied it was him when he went to court according to sam th Thielman, who reported on the case, throughout the trial, the defense suggested that Albright was the victim of a complex hacking attack that left him looking like the fall guy. Given the evidence presented against Albright, the pitch proved a hard sell to the jury. There was so much evidence. Throughout the trial, it became very clear that Variety Jones was Albright's closest confidant and problem solver. According to Greenberg, the chat logs between the two

that prosecutors used as evidence in Albright's trial extended to more than 1,000 pages. But Jones was not on trial as his real identity was still unknown. They hadn't got Jones yet. Hadn't got him. So, yeah, you wonder if he's watching the court cases going, look, I know it's got to catch him all i know that all right also our main man is just on trial being like it's gonna wait a few

few months i'll hear the sound of that helicopter and i'll grab onto my good friend monkey grip monkey grip and he'll lift me out of that lucky we came up with this plan uh any albright on the other hand of course was in court and after a four-week trial he was found guilty on all seven counts which according to theelman ranged from selling narcotics and money laundering to maintaining an ongoing criminal enterprise a charge usually usually reserved for mob kingpins prosecutors said that he had gone so far as to solicit six murders for hire, although no charges were ever brought about that for some reason. Do we know? Obviously, one was faked.

I think he all went through the same person. I don't think any of them ended up happening. Wow. That was comforting. So, he's kind of lucky. That is, yeah, a good end. And that DEA guy, Force. Knob guy uh force knob knob obviously stole a lot of money got really swept up in it glad he didn't actually murder anybody though that makes me feel a bit

better he did the torture pretty realistically he did the torture and he definitely did some some stealing and some money laundering and um i'm glad the campbell soup looked realistic enough for him and he wasn't like i'm sorry man we're gonna have to do this for real sorry uh before the sentencing the parents of victims of drug overdoses addressed the court parents of kids who got their drugs online because a lot of their case was once they realized they were done when it came to sentencing though they tried to push the fact that it's made drug buying safer and then people who and the judge basically was like, a lot of people bought drugs that wouldn't have otherwise and died from overdoses.

So, it's hard to really spin that argument. And Judge Catherine Forrest of Manhattan's US District Court handed out the most severe sentence available, all up equaling two life sentences plus 40 years. Okay. Do they counteract each other? Ah, that's a good one. Life minus life.

That's no life. Plus 40. So, only 40 years. Yeah. So, only 40 years. No, unfortunately, he's serving them concurrently, I think. Okay. One lifetime.

Yeah. Is that right? Maybe it's not concurrently. Maybe he has to serve two lifetimes and then 40 years. And then 40. Right. And then release his bones. He might live that long. Yeah. He might be 300. Yeah. He might to serve two lifetimes and then 40 years. And then 40. Right, and then release his bones. He might live that long. Yeah, because he wasn't-

He might be 300. Yeah, he might live through two lifetimes. Easy. Because he wasn't that old when he was taken down in the early 30s. 30s? Yeah. Well, yeah, it was 29. 29. So, that's the end of the story, basically. He's in jail forever. Just in jail.

Did they ever get Jonesonesy well all the articles that were you know the main articles written about it were written in 2013 2014 2015 2016 that point nowhere to be seen but i i thought i better double check uh and it seems that after tracking these bitcoin chains and a bunch of other little clues again, they eventually figured out that Variety Jones was Roger Thomas Clark, a Canadian who was living in Thailand when he was arrested. He fought extradition but was eventually brought back to America on June the 15th, 2018. And in January 2020, he pleaded guilty to conspiring to distribute narcotics. He faces 20 years in prison,

but he won't be sentenced until this month or next month. Whoa. Yeah. Wow. And how old was he? Was he like a much older? He was old, yeah. Because he was a mentor. I think he was, yeah, he was a bit older.

Right. But serving 20 years. So that, he was a bit older. Right. But serving 20 years. So that's probably it for him too. Maybe. Depends how much older. And depends on how he might live to 300. Honestly, Dave, you've got such a, like, narrow mind when it comes to what is life. You're right.

Baby, don't hurt me. Oh. When they arrested him. Nah, mate. When they arrested him in Thailand, did they arrest him at a helipad or something? I assume he was organizing it. Yeah, I assume he was- Organizing it.

It took him years, but he was finally about to go and- I'm coming for you. Pick him up. So, he would be in his early 60s now. Okay. Variety Jones. As soon as he lives to 300. He's got ages. That's fine.

20 years is a blip. Yeah. But if he lives to like 80, it's not looking good. Damn. So, it's a wild, wild story. And I don't know. I haven't looked it up, but surely there's a movie being made about this. Surely.

But it is one of those movies where stuff happens and you go, chicken soup, come on. Yeah. It's like, no, this is the true story. Yeah, Seth Rogen's playing Force. Yeah. What about Knob? They're not really going to choose Knob as their cover name.

Why would they choose Knob? Yes, there's so many unbelievable elements. But what an incredible story that I had no idea about. Yeah, wow. It's got to be a movie, surely. Yeah, as always, links to a bunch of those articles will be in the show notes. Do yourself a favour. Yeah, that wide article by Behrman is awesome.

Beautifully illustrated as well. And, yeah, Bilton, who I quoted from a lot in that, he's written a whole book about it too. It's fantastic. I had no idea about it to the point that I thought that it probably still existed. Yeah, same. I thought thought the same thing and it was such a short lifespan yeah it's been gone for nearly a decade yeah and i thought it was there the whole time so what you can't buy drugs online no it's done now you can't buy drugs at all drugs are finished

no more no more spiky leaf. What if I wanted drugs? Oh, I hadn't considered that. Let me do a quick Google. Thank you. On the dark Google. Darkgoogle.com. Is that a real thing?

Night mode. You just make your screen dark and you're like, there we go. They'll never find me now. Sorry, Jessica, just turn the lights off. I just wanted to see What Silk Road looked like So I typed in Silk Road dark web On Google images

And one thing that came up Was a screenshot And it's stuff like Two grams of weed for sale Ten grams of How much? Weed Two grams

Was $8.54 Then there's How's that Price wise I don't know You were very confident About LSD pricing. I just felt like $15 seemed cheap, but that could be wrong.

I don't know. For LSD- In this economy? I thought for LSD it should be a bit more. Right. I thought maybe you're getting, I don't know, weed gummies or something. You're like, okay, well, $10, whatever. But $15 for tabs felt pretty good.

Well, so there's amphetamines. There's a couple of types of MDMA. So there's nine images I can see. What kinds of MDMA? High grade, apparently. Okay. No, thank you. The one thing that's really standing out to me,

there's eight types of drugs. The ninth image is Michael Jackson discography, 1971 to 2009. You can buy for $2.52. Or $2. Sorry, it's in Bitcoin. It's 2.52 Bitcoin. I've just zoomed in on it. It's a B that looks like a dollar sign.

Okay, so it's 8.54 Bitcoins, which now is- That's quite a lot. That's expensive. That's too much for two grams of weed. Sorry, spicy leaf. The cheapest thing on the page is like the best of Michael Jackson's music. Why are you telling it there? That's so good.

That's so funny. And that brings us to everyone's favourite section of the show where we get to thank some of our most precious. And hot. Our most sexy listeners. Yeah. The ones who support us at patreon.com slash do go on. Of course, everyone who listens are my favourite people,

but these people, we just have a little section at the end of the show to thank them for keeping this show afloat. Yeah. And there's a bunch of different rewards they get for this by going to patreon.com slash do go on pod. Do go on pod, absolutely. pod absolutely and uh yeah you get bonus episodes it's three a month get access to this great facebook group nice corner of the internet get to vote on topics like today's topic was voted on by the patreons all sorts of things

i get early tickets get discounted tickets to live shows it's all good stuff uh but if you sign up on the sydney scheinberg level you get to give us a fact quote or a question in a section of the show that i like to call fact quote or question which has a jingle go something like this fact quote or question always remembers the ding she always remembers the sing and the first one this week comes from lewis rush uh and i should say as well as giving us a fact quote or question or brag or suggestion, they also get to give us a title, give themselves a title. And Lewis has given himself the title of Vicar of the Sacred Taint.

And Lewis got you a bit there. I did not see that phrase ending there. That's funny. Lewis writes, oh, question. I'd just like you guys to give a happy birthday shout-out to my amazing girlfriend, Acacia. She's a big fan of you guys, and she's turning 22 on the 28th of November. Well, we're getting in very early.

23rd. Happy birthday, Acacia. Acacia. Happy birthday. I mean, even at the time of recording, we have missed it. But at the time of release, we've really missed it. I don't know. Only a month and a half.

It's fine. Yes, but at the time of her birthday, I didn't miss it. Yeah. I was thinking about you, Acacia. I was thinking about Acacia. I had balloons. I was thinking, oh, Keisha has the best birthday. What date was her birthday?

28th of November. Yeah, I was actually with my, I was eating birthday cake. Oh, wow. Genuinely, because that's my best friend's birthday also. Oh, well, if that's not enough, I've actually got a way to remember her birthday. Okay. Remember, remember the 28th of November. Oh, yes.

Catch his birthday. Catch his birthday. That's nice. Yep. Well, happy birthday. Happy birthday. Lewis finishes by saying, you bring big laughs and cool stories that she and I get to share together.

And for that, I want to say thanks and keep up the epic work. That's nice. Thanks to you, Lewis. And thank you so much for supporting us. It means a lot. It's nice to be bringing couples together who otherwise would be miserable without us. What are they without us?

Nothing, they're nothing. I mean, you call them a couple, but I think of them as a thruple plus two. Yeah. A quadruple. A quadruple. A quintuple. There it is. We got there eventually. I worked my way up one at a time. Thank you very much, Lewis.

The next one comes from Rachel Johnson, aka Princess Twinkle of Piperdale. Okay. That's fun. And Rachel is offering us a brag. Love a brag. Love a brag, yes. It's often overlooked, the brag.

Yeah, bring it on. Brag it up. Rachel's brag is... Bring it on. Brag it up. I was listening to an old episode where Matt and Jess talked about how excited they'd been to see Ray Martin at an airport once. Remember that? Oh, my God, yes.

We were. You were on the Comedy Festival Roadshow and we were there filming it. And also, in the doco that came out, it was really made to look like one of the others spotted it. I spotted him. Right. I told everybody. That would have been the fault of, I don't know,

I don't want to name names, but the cameraman was Evan, wasn't it? Yeah. He was just in the other room. Might go have a word, actually. Five years later, Evan. He obviously didn't get the shot of you going, hey, hey. Quirk ended up getting all the credit, I think. Yeah.

And I pointed him out. Did anyone approach Mr. Martin? No, we left Mr. Martin alone. But I thought it was a very funny little segment. It was just, yeah, Quirk and Jess and maybe reese all just sort of whispering is that ray martin yeah it's pretty exciting he's taller than you think and then some sort of like crash zooms from across the airport zooming in on him and stuff yep anyway rachel uh continues saying so my brag is that i've also seen Ray Martin. In an airport?

But I saw him while at the top of the Rialto. Holy shit. That's incredible. The bloody, the blue gem in Australia's skyline. What's Ray Martin doing at the top of the Rialto? Two Australian icons. Wow. Wow.

I'm going to say three Australian icons when you count Rachel Johnson in the mix. That's a throuple right there. That's what I thought you meant. Most exciting day ever. Holy shit, Rachel. Just hearing about this has made this one of my most exciting days ever. Thank you so much. I mean, it was a brag, but it was also a gift of joy.

Wow. Thank you so much. I mean, it was a brag, but it was also a gift of joy. Oh, wow. Thank you so much. Next one comes from Jacob Giron, or Giron, aka Just a Real Nice Chap. Oh, that's nice. Good to know. Good to know, yeah, because sometimes you don't know. And I think people who, like, go out there and tell everyone how nice they are,

they're normally not hiding anything. That's right, yeah. I'm a nice guy, they say. Hey, I'm one of the nice guys. And I'm like, oh, thank goodness. Thank you for identifying yourself. So, I know you're trustworthy. Jacob has a question writing, hoping Matt.

Oh, I am. Hoping Matt's here this time because I explained my last name a while ago and Bob very nicely explained that she would forget to tell Matt. But a quick recap. I did forget. It is Heron. Oh, I think I say that. That's one of the options I say.

Yeah. Heron. But please feel free to pronounce it any way you would like, Matt. Okay. I'll try to remember Heron. Okay. Then from now on, it will be Parmigiana Johnson. I love it.

And Huron writes, anyways, World Cup is upon us and probably long gone by the time of reading. Oh, I love the fact that one. I'm so happy. It's still there. For the people of. At the time of recording There's still a few games to go But

And yeah Unfortunately Australia Has been a little Let's go around the room Predictions Okay Brazil I guess Brazil I guess

I'm hoping for Morocco Oh that'd be fantastic Coming through I'd love that I'd love that very much I have no idea You know We've got a lot of listeners in England.

Be happy for them to finally bring it home. Yeah. I was hoping for Wales early. I mean, Australia, obviously, but Wales as well. Well, hopefully there's some sort of technicality where Wales had to come back, sub in for England, and they have won. Well, there's nothing in the rule books that... Says a dog can't play

a welsh dog can't come and play in the final a little welsh corgi uh okay so he says i was just wondering does it become the phenomenon in australia that it does in the us seems to me almost everyone here whether they watch soccer or not, is glued to every game. It is all we talk about while it's on. Can't wait to hear from you. And as always, thanks for always bringing the last one. America, unfortunately, were also just eliminated at the same time, in the same round as the Aussies.

I thought, you know, I think both countries would be pretty happy to make it that far. I mean, Australia definitely. Yes. Always stoked to get out of the group stage. Yeah, it's still- It's the only second time we've ever done that. It's still a big deal here, but I think it sort of depends.

Like, I mean, people were getting up in the middle of the night and going to Fed Square to watch it. For the Australian games especially, it was a pretty big deal. Yeah, yeah. And I think for the rest of the games, it's just probably football fans and hardcore sports fans who are right into it. Yeah.

And then expats or people that have heritage in certain countries. Of course, yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, it's not- I wouldn't say- I'm surprised that America is, as you've described it there, that everyone's watching it. It's definitely not to that level here.

Nah. But it is- You know, everyone knows it's on, or most people would know it's on. Yeah, you know it's on. But that's mainly because Australia was in it, I'd say. Yeah, and I just live with a soccer fanatic, so. Oh, okay, so everything you say, I guess everyone. Goose, he fucking loves it.

He does, actually. He's got a soccer ball. Yeah, and he's obsessed with it. He's amazing with a soccer ball, which is so funny. My favourite thing is taking him to the park with a soccer ball and watching other people clock him. They'll sort of go, that's cute. And then they realise he's running the length of an oval with a soccer ball and they're like, what the fuck?

Is he pushing it? Is he putting it in his mouth? What's he doing with it? He shoulders it along. He dribbles the ball now. It's ridiculous. That's so good. It's really cute. There's nothing in the rule book. It says a little French dog could play.

France versus Wales. And it comes down to a penalty shootout between two dogs. A French Yeah. Versus Wales. Yeah. And it comes down to a penalty shootout between two dogs. A Frenchie and a corgi. My money's on the Frenchie. Thank you, Jacob. I really appreciate that.

Question. And the final one this week comes from Eric Morales, or Eric Morales, aka junior VP of setting up Christmas lights and realising that they're broken until after they're on the tree. Brutal. I was imagining them on the roof.

Oh, yeah. All right, kids, come out. I'm going to turn on the lights. Here we go. Three, two. Oh, no. Okay. Sorry, everybody.

I guess Christmas is cancelled this year. So, Eric asks What are some of your self-care tips that you can offer? Loving the pod Y'all do great work Self-care tips? Well, well, well Okay, we're in your wheelhouse Kind of, but also self-care is very

Very Universal Subjective. Oh, I think if it works for one, it works for everybody. Yeah, I mean, some people self-care is like playing video games. Other people, it's having a bath. Going

and getting a facial or a massage. You love a massage, Matt. Love a massage. But I don't like being touched. That's right. So, that's not self-care for Dave. Which is why- That's torture for Dave. But he loves touching. So we've worked out a great system- It's perfect.

Where Dave massages me. Dave does love to touch. Yes. I love to self-care. I mean, I do it when I'm at my wit's end. So I do it too late. But, you know, our goal for this year is um let's stop burning out quite so much so that would be your self-care tip would be go early go early go early

go often that's right that's right go early go often dave uh i love a good walk to clear the mind. Love that. I love with the dog, solo, with music playing. Yep. Along a nice green part. Yeah. Along an ocean. A green part. Yes. Touch some grass.

Is that what that means when people say that? You see that sometimes on Twitter. You've got to go touch the grass. You need to touch the grass. Yeah. He's basically saying you're online too much. Yeah. Walk away.

I love, yeah, the fresh air. I've been liking similarly riding my bike and just seeing whatever route Google Maps has taken me on because it's usually down like back streets and stuff. And so, I'm in areas I've never been in and I'm like, oh, that's a nice house. That's a nice street. Just kind of wind in my hair. That sounds nice. It's really nice.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I guess I don't know what my standard, because a massage isn't really a thing you can do all that often. Of course you can. Why can't you? Well, they cost money and, you know, who's got time to go? I mean, that's the best thing about it, I think, is just being able to lie and not do anything.

Just be still for a bit. Yeah, you're not on a phone, on a computer. But, yeah, similar like going for a walk. Love that. I've got to get back into running. I've hardly gone for a run in the last year. So that's a bit of a New Year's resolution is to get back into some exercise. What about that tip that you've shared with me, Matt,

and I think someone shared with you, and it applies to us when we're doing stand-up and maybe trying a new bit or something, you're a bit worried about it, not sure how it's going to go, but have you got something that's worrying you on the horizon? Nick Capper told me that about when I was first doing some auditions for some little acting roles. Oh, those auditions, fantastic.

I was, yeah, feeling, you know, I was just feeling the anxiety about it. And he said his trick was, he's like, you know, you can only do your best and it's up to them. It doesn't matter. It's out of your hands. But his trick was he'd think of a meal that he was going to have afterwards, his little trick. Whether it went well or bad, he's got that to look forward to.

That's guaranteed. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a fun one to do. I often look forward to a burrito after doing something that's giving me anxiety. You've got anxiety about something at work or something coming up. You just think, yeah, out of your hands. Have a treat. But afterwards, the one thing I can control is that goddamn treat.

Yeah. I'm very rest motivated. Oh, yeah, I love a rest. So, I can get through really busy periods, but if I know I've got a day off and I book something in, like a massage or something, I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah. I think that's true.

Just having a little light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. Yeah, a little something on the horizon. It's nice. Book a catch-up with a friend or something or whatever. Yeah. Good stuff. Thanks, Eric.

The next thing we like to do is thank a few of our other great supporters. Bob, you normally come up with a bit of a game based on the topic at hand. What they're selling on Silk Road. Cool. Best of Michael Jackson. All right, great. Well, we each read out three names, and if I can kick us off. Please.

I'd love to thank from Wuppertal in Deutschland. It's probably Wuppertal in Deutschland. It's Bastion Heckel. Oh, that's a good name. Incredible name. Bastion Heckel is selling their collection of large seashells. Oh, yeah. Wow. The seashells. Oh, yeah. Wow.

The seashells are filled with drugs. Yeah, think about it. You could pack those ones. Easy. Those conch-style ones. Yeah, if like a little crab can get in there and make it its home, I can fit some freaking pills in there. Unfortunately, Bastion has been removing the crabs

and then replacing the crabs with heroin. And unfortunately for Bastion, the DEA didn't catch him or whoever the drugs people are in Deutschland, but the environmental groups did. Yeah, PETA. PETA for stealing shells and removing crabs. Fair enough. Damn.

It all brought him unstuck. They all make a mistake in the end. Thank you very much, Bastian. I'd also love to thank from Austinmere in New South Wales in Australia, Victoria Waldock. Victoria Waldock is selling Waldorf salad. Oh, okay. Fantastic.

And is it- It's filled with drugs. Love that. I was going to ask if it's pre-prepared or if it's like in little packets, but you reckon it's just... Yeah, I guess because I thought it would go soggy. Very little packets, little baggies. Add in your few grams of Coke there.

Whatever you like. Yeah. But it is actually a Waldorf salad. Yeah. But instead of croutons, I don't know what a Waldorf salad has in it. It's apple, celery, walnuts. Instead of walnuts, it's crack rocks. Crack rocks for the crunch.

Yeah. That the apple and celery don't provide. Delicious. And finally, for me, I'd love to thank from Mount Gambier in South Australia, it's Catherine Jane. Catherine Jane. Any ideas? Mount Gambier.

Mount Gambier. I will say- Catherine Jane? Maybe a bit of Mary Jane. Oh Jane. Any ideas? Mount Gambier. I will say. Catherine Jane? Maybe a bit of Mary Jane. Oh, yeah, but it is shoved inside of footballs. Wow. So they take the bladder out, so there's no way to pump them up, so they just jam them.

Catherine jams them full of the old spicy leaf. Wow. But so much so that it feels full and and there was a few mistakes made and and some of her balls have been used in the AFL wow well that's an honor and they didn't even know that's an honor that's how well weed uh substitutes in for air wow and if we ever tell me it's illegal okay okay well if we ever run out of air we know what to replace it with yeah can I thank some people as Wow. But no, tell me it's illegal. Okay. Okay. Well, if we ever run out of air, we know what to replace it with. Yeah.

Can I thank some people as well? Please do. I would love to thank from Menifee. That's fun. Menifee in California. Roman Garcia. Oh, what a name. Roman Garcia shipping a box full of wigs.

Oh. You know what's inside those wigs? What's inside the wigs? LSD. Painted onto the hairs. Really? So, people have to lick a wig, which is gross. Lick a wig. That's actually the name of his business.

Lick a wig with Roman Garcia. It's now a TV show. Wow. Roman Garcia is such a great name. This has gone so well for Roman. Okay. I hate that. I don't like-

I don't want to lick hair. I don't think it's going to take off Roman. Do you know what I saw? With the rethink. Maybe it was a TikTok or something, but it was like, if you look at anything in this room, anything at all, look at something, you know what that would feel like to lick. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

How is that? I don't know. Why would I know that? Why do we know that? But you know what every surface texture is going to feel like. It's because it's this experience of texture and touch, isn't it? But on your tongue specifically? Hmm.

Yeah. That seems weird that I would know. Yeah. But it's fun when you think about it and then you look around and you're like, I know what that would feel Hmm. Yeah. That seems weird that I would know. Yeah. But it's fun when you think about it. And then you look around and you're like, I know what that would feel like. Yeah. Gross. Thank you, Roman.

That pile of wigs over there, for instance. I don't want to lick it. Hey, that's my pile of wigs. Get your own LSD wigs. I would also love to thank from Bly Park in New South Wales, Rachel Rook. Another great name. Rachel Rook. Another great name. Rachel Rook. Chess pieces.

Oh. Chess sets. Inside them? Inside them. Cocaine. Okay. The devil's salt shaker. So, you have to destroy these really beautifully handmade chess pieces.

Yeah, but you put little holes in the top of them and then you can use them as little cocaine shakers. That's nice. When you just want a little bit of cocaine. I don't want a full line of cocaine. You know when you're at one of those real fancy restaurants and you go, crack cocaine, crack cocaine, crack cocaine. Say when.

A little more, a little more. Very good, again. A little more. A little more. Very good, sir. Yeah, so thank you to Rachel. And finally, for me, I would love to thank from Glasgow, Alan Kerr. What about a big bag of marijuana? Okay. Hidden inside the marijuana. It's actually crystal meth.

So people go, marijuana, all right. Boys will be boys, I guess. Go on through. Really, it's like. It's a huge bag of marijuana. It's huge. It's like a pillow. A pillow of marijuana, which obviously anybody at a security guard,

police officer, border security will be like, well, boys will be boys. All right. You little scamp, get in there. With their pillow of marijuana. Oh, when you go to schoolies or something. All right, have a good time. Don't green out. All right.

Is that all we can say? Is that what the kids say? That's good stuff. Thank you, Rachel Rook. Hey, I would like to thank you, Alan Kerr. Alan Kerr. Good luck out there, Alan. Rachel you, Rachel Rook. Hey, I would like to thank you for your beer. Oh, no, thank you, Alan Kerr. Alan Kerr. Good luck out there, Alan. Rachel's had enough thanks.

Rachel, I take that last thank you back. Hey, I'd like to throw in an extra thank you to, from Sacramento, California, Kirsten or Kirsten Rosenbach. That's another fantastic name. God damn. I like that name a lot. I'm thinking it's Kirsten Rosenbach. Kirsten Rosenbach. So it's Kirsten Rosenbach. Kirsten Rosenbach.

So good. Kirsten Rosenbach. I think, when I think Rosenbach, I think of Adam Rosenbach, the Australian comedian. He's a big metal head. Yep. So, I think- Very funny man.

What Kirsten is selling are vintage vinyl thrash metal LPs. Cool. But inside of those. No. Put something flat. We've already done LSD. I'm running out. Yeah.

I don't know anything. Inside of those is Panadol Rapid. Oh, my God. 15 minutes. Slow down there, Kirsten. If you've got a headache, don't worry. This will fix you up pretty quick. Whoa.

What do they put in it to make it work faster? Speed. The good stuff. Just a little bit. A little bit of speed. Hey, I would like to thank, bringing it slightly closer to home, from Echuca in Victoria, John Ebert. Oh, that's a good name.

John Ebert. He's selling a paddle steamer. Oh, yeah. Oh, fantastic. Echuca famous for the Murray River paddle steamers. Is that where Riverport soft drinks are from with the paddle steamer on the label? Probably. Fantastic.

Can't confirm or deny. That's a big thing to ship. Well, yeah, but it would only- But it ships itself, I guess. Exactly right. You don't need to put it on another ship. That'd be ridiculous. And only delivers if you live on the Murray.

Yeah. Yeah, fantastic. Otherwise, pick up available. Well, there's actually, I mean, luckily, there's quite a lot of space to store things in a paddle ship. That's right. And the new customer could absolutely do so. But this is just a paddle boat.

Exactly. The Silk Road is used for many things. Many things. You're touching your nose, Jess. I'm wondering, what do you mean by that? No, nothing. It's just a paddle boat. What, do you have a scratchy nose?

I say just a paddle boat. I mean, who's got a paddle boat? Wow. Now you. Yeah. Kirsten did. Now you do. I mean, John Ebert did. Now you do i mean john ebert did now you do

on you john good luck with the steamer the steamer and finally i have to thank from location unknown which i can only imagine means that they are located deep within the fortress of the moles unfortunately the dark web does extend down there. I would like to thank Robin Anderson. Mr. Anderson. Robin Anderson. Robin is selling The Matrix. Whoa. DVD?

No. Oh. The System. The System. Whoa. The reality. And within The Matrix. Yes.

What? Heroin. Oh. Does it come in pill form? It was the only one I could think of. I was like, what else have we done? I mean, that movie does, like Dave said, famously talk about pills. Okay.

Well, it's got MDMA in it then. Heroin and MDMA. No, just MDMA. Okay? I'm not lying, heroin. She giveth and she taketh away. Have to be pills. Sorry, Robin.

So you get molly, okay? Enjoy. Oh, just pills. Sorry, Robin. So you get Molly, okay? Enjoy. Oh, just doesn't know the terms. You were joking before you were saying, I don't know them, but you do them. Yeah. So Molly is MDMA. Uh-huh. Is that what the M stands for?

Molly. Molly DMA. That's right. Wow. D, the DM is direct message. Oh. MDMA. Molly, direct message me, eh?

That's what it stands for. That's what it stands for. Drugs are weird. I don't know what to tell you. I can answer this, Molly. Direct message, aye. Direct message, aye. Thank you so much to Rob and John, Kirsten, Alan, Rachel, Roman,

Catherine, Victoria, and Bastion. The last thing we need to do, the last thing we want and love to do. Absolutely. What a privilege. Is welcome in a few people in our Triptych Club. Now, how does the Triptych Club work, Bob, again? Well, think of it as an exclusive lounge. Once you enter, you may never leave.

We've got everything you could possibly want. An ice skating rink. Whoa. I have not opened that door. I didn't know it was in there. It literally want, an ice skating rink. Whoa. I have not opened that door. I didn't know it was in there. It literally is labelled ice skating rink. Yeah, I thought that was a joke. It's not.

How big is it? It's an ice skating rink. I thought that was like an ice skating rink, tap your nose, you know what I mean? What is it with you two and tapping your noses? Just wanted people to have fun on the ice. Me too. And, you know, Matt's at the door.

He's going to lift the velvet rope. He's got the clipboard. He's going to welcome you into the club. Dave's on stage and he is going to hype you up. I'm going to hype him up because Matt says Dave's not very good at it. I say Dave's amazing at it. Thank you. I'm behind the bar.

I'm behind the bar. I'm behind the bar. Oh, the after party. After we welcome him in. Yeah. What are you serving? Cocaine. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Where'd you get it? Oh, I don't know. You don't know. I don't know. Found it. I made a cocaine cocktail. Yeah. I've just put cocaine in vodka and stirred it up.

Oh, my God. It's pretty gross. Yeah. But it will fuck you up. It'll numb your face. Your whole face will be numb. It'll be fun, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. But it will fuck you up. It'll numb your face. Your whole face will be numb. It'll be fun, I guess. I don't know.

I don't know. We'll see. Fun out. Take it at your own risk if you want. Dave, have you booked a band for this after party? I've booked The Darkness. Yes. I believe in it.

Go love. A band you've both seen live before. That's right. But this will be my first time. We were at the same gig. So, I'm looking forward to seeing the darkness. Touching you. And why is that?

Because they, well, I don't know if still, but were definitely heavy into drugs for a while then. Was it the dark web? Yeah, that's what made me book them. That's better. Not think of it, book them. That's better. When I saw them the first time at Big Day Out,

they played like a 40-minute set. And is it Justin, the front man? Yeah. He did a costume change. That's about right, yeah. And he changed into a- Sequins? It was a pink and white leotard onesie thing with the open front chest.

This is how I remember it anyway it was fantastic yeah that's uh after that i believed in a thing called love uh so that means we've just got to welcome in the five names i'm on the door did you say that jess i'm going to read out your name welcome you in and then the hyping up begins are you ready ready? Ready. From Denver in Colorado, it's Alexis Gentry. What an absolute gent. Yes. Tree. From Bradford in England, it's Jamie Chapman. What an excellent chap. Chapman. From location unknown, can only assume, from deep within the fortress of the moles, it's Spaced Monkey.

What an absolute monk amongst men from robin hill in new south wales it's will show and make up well will show and making me crazy yes and finally from mattingly in victoria it's nathan garnsworthy you know this next guy he's garnsworthy but he's also Triptychworthy. Welcome him in, Nathan. Welcome to the club, Nathan Will, Spaced, Jamie and Alexis. Make yourselves at home. Grab a glass of cocaine vodka and enjoy. Or don't.

Yeah, I'd actually say probably don't. I probably wouldn't. We've got other drinks. Yeah. Jess, do we have medics on standby? Nah, it's me. Oh, no. the first aid kit your certificate is well out of date

yeah I would say don't drink those but do enjoy the darkness and thanks for joining us anything we needed to do a bit of scar there at the end I love it you can suggest a topic there's a link in the show notes and also at

dogoonpod.com, which is our website where you can find info on live shows, merch, all the good stuff. You can follow us on social media at dogoonpod. And we love you. Dave, bring it home. Hey, thanks so much for being here, listening to our voices. And you can

do that, the exact same thing next week when we come up with a new episode, but until then, I'll say thank you so much for listening, and goodbye! Later! Bye! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats, but iced tea

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