Do Go On - 396 - Rosemary Brown: A Musical Seance

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

Rosemary Brown was a musician who collaborated with the all time greats of classical music - the twist is, this all happened from beyond the grave! This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 04:43 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodLive show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/Check out our new merch! : https://do-go-on-podcast.creator-spring.com/   Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:The Theory of Everything Else: A Voyage into the World of the Weird by Dan Schreiberhttps://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/dec/05/rosemary-brown-liszt-beethoven-pianisthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX477Zo7otghttps://www.theguardian.com/news/2001/dec/11/guardianobituarieshttps://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/nyregion/rosemary-brown-a-friend-of-dead-composers-dies-at-85.html Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. Welcome to another episode of Doogone. My name is Dave Warnocky and as always. I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. How good is it to be alive and all aboard?

All aboard. Welcome. We've got the dining cart. Enjoy that. Well, I wish I was never born and I'll see you on the poop deck. Off the train? You throw on a few out there, a possible catchphrase. I think they could all work.

Oh, we're on a train. Can you say all the board to a boat? Yeah, tugboats can too, for sure. I love a tugboat. I love a tugboat. They're so cute and powerful. Like me. Yeah.

You see yourself in a tugboat. You are tugbo's personified. I don't because of any bigger tugger than you. That's right. Captain Tug. You love a tug. The bigger, the better as well. That's right.

Yeah. Hey, Dave, how did this show work? Oh, absolutely. explain that to you right now. Thank you. What we do is we take it in terms of the report on a topic here, often suggested, but not always to us by one of the listeners. We go away, do a little bit of research and then bring it back to the others in the form

of a witty report. A witty report? A witty report? A witty report, absolutely. I thought the wit came from the listeners. No, no. And then the other two people, they're witless. They sit there, they listen as the witty reporter gives their witty repartee in the reportee

to the reporters. That's right. If it makes sense. And then, yeah, basically we find out about a new topic. And Matt, it's your turn this week to tell us all about something new. And we always start with a question, I should say. That's right. And my question is, what am I?

A man. Okay. A dickhead. There's more info, but you've buzzed in early. Okay. Is she buzzed out now locked out? Oh, I see. What am I?

And then you're going to give clues. It's not about you. Yeah, I'm basically just going to read a blur from. Can I also have a decision? I'll have a go. And then we'll be back on importing. Yep. So just to clarify that, I've said a man and a dickhead.

And you didn't say anything yet? He didn't say that. What am I? Yes. Mount Everest. I'm a small evergreen plant of the mint family. The leaves of which are used to flavour foods. Mint.

Parsley. Are you mint? I don't know. Mints probably, parsley's probably not the same family. Native to the Mediterranean region, I've been naturalized throughout much of Europe and widely grown in gardens in warm climates. Basil. The leaves.

You're, I mean, you're in the ballpark. The leaves are pungent. Are we? With a slightly bit of taste. I should say my leaves are pungent with a slightly bit of taste and dried or fresh are generally used to season foods, particularly lamb. Rosemary. Correct. I was thinking rosemary for a while and I thought if he says lamb, it's rosemary.

And then you said lamb. Yep. And I was like, holy fucking shit. I think it might be rosemary. Oh my God. I am strapped in for the report on history of rosemary. History of rosemary. Well, this is a very sparticular.

I was trying to, I think that's what I'm like, why am I saying particular or so weird? Because I was also trying to say specific. My bride works in sparticular ways. I love that as a word. Okay. Bring it in. Spaticular. Spaticular.

Well, sparticulie this week, I'm talking about Rosemary Isabel Dickerson, who was born. Oh, it's a person, not a type of rosemary. I just didn't, I never heard of her, so I assumed. Can we have the name one more time? Rosemary Isabel Dickerson. Dickerson. More commonly known as Rosemary Brown, as she marries later. Right.

Okay. That's a real downgrade from Dickerson to Brown. Isn't it? Come on. Rosemary Brown. Yeah. Will you be talking about the herb? No, no.

Okay. Do you have any herb? Do you want to get any herb off the chest? Rosemary is probably one of my favorites, that's all. Right. I just thought that was, you know, garlic, rosemary on the potatoes, heaven. The most controversial, though, is the coriander, which is I thought we were maybe moving towards and how do we feel about that?

Hayter. This three of us here was one hater? I'm a neutral. I didn't know people were neutral. I'm pro. I'm an absolute big lover. Corianda lover, they call me. You know, we're the full spectrum.

Yeah. Wow. All three stages of the spectrum. I think in so many ways we represent a spectrum. Yeah. Look at the diversity in this room. That's true. When it comes to coriander, that cannot be denied.

So Rosemary Isabel Dickerson was born on the 27th of July 1916 in Stockwell, Southwest London. She was the daughter of an electrician and a catering manager. Same person or parents? Do you, I was thinking the same? Oh, yeah, no, sorry, father was electrician, mother was a caterer. And what year was this sorry? 1916. Oh, wow, okay.

Right, I was hoping that there was a real moonlighting situation going on here? I was I wondering was the catering or the electrician at night? And I just, I assume that because back in the day, soon as women were married, they didn't work anymore. So that's why I was like, oh, mum's working. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you're catering to your husband's knees. That's what Dave says at home. And it does not go down well.

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I was being ironic. I'm so sorry. I'm a feminist. You're a coward as well, Dave. Stick to your guns.

Never. I'm terrified of my own home. So they lived. Above a dance hall and young Rosemary won many youth dance contests. That's really convenient. Yeah. Just pop, pop downstairs. Yeah.

Win a trophy. Pop back upstairs. Put it on the shelf. So it's not ideal to live above a dance hall in terms of the noise you think. Especially the tap dancing concert. That'll keep you up all night. And then she's practicing upstairs and they're downstairs going, come on, come on, we're trying to sleep. Yeah.

Well, that's how she got so good. Yeah. Well, they were sleeping. was dancing. So, I mean, I'm just realizing now you have no idea what this is about. No. No. And you're probably thinking this is going to be about a dance prodigy. Maybe.

Yes. Well, you're wrong, because her life took a strange turn when she was seven. She was in her parents' bedroom when a strange man with long white hair visited. He seemed to appear out of nowhere. Santa? His hair isn't long, you idiot. His beard is, but his hair is always kept to a just above the shoulder's leg. What do you think?

Do you know anything? What do you think? Beards are made out of chest? But when you describe someone, they had long hair, beard or on their head? Which one? Where was the hair? Arm hair. He is? Which hair?

How long was the chest hair? Just give us a length. Are you talking pubis? Why could you say that? Rosemary didn't recognise him, but he had a message for her. He told her he would return to make her famous one day when she was older. It was all very mysterious and then as quickly as he appeared he was gone, as if he'd vanished. What the heck?

While dancing was her passion, when she left school at the age of 15, her dad didn't think there was a future in it and instead got her a job at the post office. He's like, you may not dance. Wow. You will post. You can dance all the way to work, which is across the street. But also, don't dance to work. You'll look like a crazy person.

Really weird. We're going to move to live above the post office now. I don't believe it at a commute. Two years after that, she's... saw a photo of a man with long white hair. She immediately recognized him as the man who visited her 10 years prior. She's like, oh my God, my God. Oh, my God. And she was looking at a Christmas card. I've seen him before. It was a Coke ad. Christmas Coke. So who was this mystery man? Well, the photo was of Hungarian piano virtuoso and composer Franz Liszt. The only problem was

When Rosemary was visited by him, he'd already been dead for 37 years. What? Can I quickly check the pronunciation there, Dave, or just, Franz List? Yes. Yeah. I mean, we cannot see it written now. Yeah. Oh, you've not heard of him?

No. Franz List. No. Well, I'm probably saying it wrong because I think he's a famous one. That doesn't mean that Dave and I will know it. Oh, that's true. So, a famous Hungarian composer. I did play piano.

for a while, but it was a lot of... And you called it Piami. Pianney. I play the Pianney. I play the Pianney. Was that a list classic? I think so. I don't know.

So that's all right. Rosemary had a visit from the ghosts of legendary composer Franz List. As time went on, Rosemary connected with more spirits. She was a medium, as it turned out, and as such, was able to communicate with the other side. When asked about her ability in an interview many years later with Newsweek, she replied, I've always had the ability ever since I can remember. I see and hear people who are thought of as dead. Sometimes these communications would even save her life.

According to Ian Parrot, writing for The Guardian, it's a great name. It's a great name. Ian Parrott. I love it. Also imagine a parrot named Ian. That'd be fun too. Ian? It says his own name.

Who's a good boy? Anne. According to the good boy, Ian Parrott, during a wartime blackout in May 1940, she claimed that she heated a voice advising her to avoid Balham High Road on her way home from work, which was just upstairs. And so she escaped a bombing raid that killed hundreds.

Whoa. And that's the normal route she would have taken. Yes. But a voice said, don't go there. Wow. Yeah, I find that interesting as well because you think of ghosts has been from the past, but apparently when they cross over, they can potentially tell the future as well. Or maybe they'd just seen the plan.

I guess that's all it would have been. Right. They've read the script. Yeah, maybe they were also haunting the bombers and they'd looked at the plans. Sorry, I answered my own question there. But pretty handy, pretty handy skill, having people just letting you know, don't go there. Yeah. Go this way.

Like you had that on your Jeep. It's basically early days GPS. Mm-hmm. You rode here today, and it took you... Took me on a different route. A different route. It takes me on the same route every single time, and it took me on a different one today. So maybe we'll read it in the news later that something happened along that route.

Yeah, imagine. Because it took me on a weird... I was down, like, dirt paths at one point, and I'm like, I'm on a bike, like, not a fancy one. Penny farthing. Penny farthing. That's how I like to get to work quickly and up high. Yeah, yeah. But it took me like through a farm and it was a baffling.

How is that possible? Yeah, from your place to hear, it doesn't seem like there should be a farm. And I don't know if it was like a hobby farm, farm. It was more like one of the, like a little. Like the Collingwood Children's Farm? Yeah, that sort of vibe, but it wasn't Collingwood Children's Farm. Right. I'll look it up later.

Okay. But I reckon you went through some sort of time portal. Yeah, I think I did. To avoid the blitz of Melbourne. Yeah. Wow. So we haven't heard of yet. But we will.

We will shortly. Yeah. Anyway, Parrot continues. Who's a good boy? Three years later, she contracted polio but overcame it. And in 1948, at the age of 32, started taking piano lessons. So these only lasted about a year. In 1952, she married Charles Brown, Charlie Brown, taking his name to become Rosemary Brown,

which is what she is better known as today. She was born in 16. Got married when? 50. 1952. How old is she, Dave? what, 36. That's old for back then.

Yeah, she's practically dead. Now I think, completely fine, you know. Yeah, like it's great to learn who you are. Yes. Grow within yourself. Uh-huh. You know, meet a partner whenever is right for you. Yeah, Dave married young in my opinion.

Yeah, I married too young. At 31, absolutely. How could you be short? I was chatting to a friend the other day and her husband's brother just got married very recently. And I was like, how old are they? They're young, aren't they? And she's like, yeah, they're both 25? I was like, oh, babies.

Yeah. And then she was like, my husband was 25 when I got married. And I was like, yeah, no, I remember that, of course. Yes, I remember you marrying a baby. I was like, you married a child. You married a child. It was weird then. It's weird now.

Yeah, that's just like our parents' generation getting married. They did it in their 20s, but yeah, it does seem young now. Oh, my God, yeah. But that's just because we're babies. Yeah. Who refuse to grow up. That's right. A couple of Peter Pan's over here.

Not Dave. Dave's growing up. Dave's our dad. I'm proud of you both Yes You left past us In you Dave He used to be the young one

Now you're the old man Now you're a silver fox Yes I'm an old wise man Haunting people With my long grey beard Which is what you call your pew Yeah my dick beard God they're long

Dick beard Anyway Please continue So yes She overcame polio Started taking piano lessons Then got married And this all happened

In her 30s Now she's Rosemary Brown Charles Brown was a government scientist who apparently had once worked as a gardener for King Farouk of Egypt. Whoa. Just a fun little fact there. A resume. Yeah.

Wow. What catch. Yeah. Well done. Rosemary. Yes. Together they had two children, Thomas and Georgina. She's having kids in her late 30s.

Oh, tell you all. Is that possible? I don't think so. That's geriatric pregnancies. And that is honestly, we need to change the terminology there. That is offensive. Oh, that's all they actually... Anywhere they actually...

Any however 35 is a geriatric pregnancy. Huh. There you go. Which I would say is like a lot of them now, probably. Yeah. If you... And I'm pretty sure it's like if you are 34 when you first fall pregnant and then during your pregnancy you turn 35, all of a sudden you have more doctor's appointments

because now it's geriatric. Yeah, that makes sense. It's baffling stuff. It's all about, yeah, the calendar. The Gregorian calendar. That's right. Babies know. 35.

I forget that mother a walking soon. Bed rest. Bed rest for the next six months. Sadly, the marriage only lasted nine years as Charles passed away in 1961. The same year her mother passed away. Her father had died a few years prior. So she lost everyone close to her, apart from her two kids, in a pretty short period of time.

And with all these people close to her dying, she was further drawn into the world of spiritualism. She was already kind of connected to. She had a natural gift for it, I guess. And it was quite popular back then, apparently. Right. Through the 1800s, especially, but it had a few renaissance periods in the 1900s as well. According to Britannica, I never knew what spiritualism meant, so I thought maybe this will help.

A core belief of spiritualism is that individuals survive the deaths of their bodies by ascending into a spirit existence. Communion with the spiritual world is both possible and desirable. And spiritual healing is the natural result of such communication. So they just believe that there's a spirit world. Yeah, it's like an afterlife. You might not physically be here. Your body might not be alive anymore, but your spirit still is in some capacity. So I guess that's why she used that weird phrase before of what many people think of as dead, which is like, to me.

Not dead. It was just a different kind of life. Yeah. And I'm loving it. I'm fully want to believe it. Totally. I think it's nice. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It feels like the people formerly known as living. Yeah. Yeah. They move to a different space. If you're pregnant in that space, so many appointments. Oh my God, you've had a geriatric death.

I mean, that's the dream. Yeah, dying over 35. I'd love to make it to 35 and then we'll see. So she was now the main, well, the only bread winner for her family, obviously, and she was working as a school dinner lady. to support the family, sort of just scraping together a living to make ends meet. Unfortunately, while working one day, she was injured in the school kitchen and had a lengthy recovery. During that period, she started playing the piano again. But it was different this time.

Now she felt an extra presence, as if her hands had been taken over and guided by someone. Incredible. Someone who really knew what they were doing. That's right. This is when Liss finally came good on his promise to return. 40 years after their initial, meeting. He was using her as a medium to write new music. And this is how he was going to make her famous. Whoa. Her hands were possessed. Yeah. That is incredible. That's awesome. By Franz List. I mean, if you're going to be possessed, right? Yeah. I don't think I want somebody like scaring me and banging drawers and, you know, going to the bull. Watching me at the shower or anything. Yeah. Yeah. You stay over there.

in the curtain shop. Having a little ghost tug. So I'm looking at me. But if they're going to like make you really skilled at something that you already seem to enjoy and, you know, it's like writing new music through. Do you think you come to an agreement where like, so like you've got France time and then you've got Brown time? Yeah.

I mean, like it's like, all right, we'll do the piano over here. But then I want to feed myself. Right. I want to look up to myself. I think it's just the piano. Yeah. I think it's just the piano. It's just the piano.

They're like, okay, so we clock, we clock off at five and then my hands, they are my own to quote from Jewel. Have you not? Yeah. Is that what the song's about? They're small, I know. Yeah. But they're not yours. They are my own.

Yeah. That's, yeah, that's actually what Jewel was singing about. I get it now. I wanted for 25 years. I love when you figure out what those songs are about. Yeah. It was about the moment that Rosemary set some boundaries with Fran's list. It's important. It's important in any working relationship to have boundaries.

Stuart Jeffries Stop turning up at my door is what I'm saying. Stuart Jeffries for the Guardian wrote As she sat at her piano, Brown said she became aware of her hands being taken over for a few bars and then at list's instruction

she wrote down the notes. It was hard work at first. Though she'd had some beginners piano lessons, she was a fair way off pro penis pace. Great sentence. She wasn't really a big fan of music either apparently, according to Douglas Martin writing for the New York Times.

There was no record player or radio in her home. She didn't even have a piano. And she said she never went to concerts. She did have a piano, Dave. That would have been. Otherwise, this story would be ridiculous. Why is she taking piano lessons in the first place years ago if she doesn't like music? Well, yeah, that's what, I mean, there's some differing tellings of the story.

Like, some say she obviously liked music. She's like playing it. But yeah, it's funny that Douglas Mart. and wrote her obituary in the New York Times. He was sort of, he didn't take her very seriously. She later told Ian Parrott himself a prolific composer. It could be a laborious process getting it onto paper, but she gradually became more adept at taking dictation from the dead composers.

And that's right. Composers. Oh my gosh. List was just the first. Oh, my goodness. Many more would visit to lay down some new tracks. Great, and they could pick anyone and they've chosen someone with no classical training who doesn't have a great year for music. Yeah, exactly. She doesn't have an ear for music, but this is, this is the point.

She's unfettered. She doesn't have any baggage. No bias. She's not going to be fighting against their, what they want her to do. She's the perfect puppet. She's just a vessel. Right. She knows the, she can do the very basics, but she's just letting the music flow through her. And who's getting credit for these writings? Well, she gives it to them.

No way. I'd be doing 50-50 split. Yeah, I think it's a co-lab, right? Oh, yeah, there's definitely a feat. How are the ghosts going to prove they wrote it through her? Yeah. Not I mean? Good luck.

If I'm Rosemary, I am zippin'i. And I am taking that all the way to the bank. That's why they're going to take it to court Marvin Gaye style. It's not going to stack up. It's not going to stack up. Keep those checks. Yeah. Haunt me all you like.

Watch me in the shower. I don't care. I'm a bagillionaire there. Yeah. Yeah, because everyone's buying classical music. Yeah. It's back then. It's just music.

I'm so rich. I'm so rich my showers are golden. Okay. And I'm having a great time in here. Watch all you like. I like it. Watch me have a golden shower. I dare you.

I cannot wait for the arm actually, sir. As Martin wrote, list arranged for the other composers to come, acting like sort of a reception desk. They took different approaches. Chopin told her what notes to play and pushed her. fingers down on the right keys. Beethoven and Bach liked her to sit at a table and take dictation with a pencil, whereas Schubert, Schubert, tried to sing his compositions, but according to her, he hasn't a very good voice.

That, Hubert. So he's trying to sing it, but she has to have a good enough for you to know what note that is. Or does she just write it down? La, la, la, la la la. I'm like, I'll get it. Smurf theme. I mean, it's a great, it's a great theme. It's a great theme.

Gargamel! He's not wrong, he's a great theme. According to Jeffries, there were others like Mozart, Rachmaninov, Brahms and Grieg, who also dictated new music to Brown. You'd recognise some of these names, if not list. Yeah. Words started to get out about Brown and her supernatural talent.

According to Parrott, the first professional assessment of a growing body of posthumous pieces came from the Edinburgh music teacher Mary Firth. She was sufficiently convinced of its sense. substance for her husband George to join another George, Sir George Trevelyan, in establishing a trust so that from 1968, Rosemary could pursue her musical quest rather than her then day job as a school dinner lady. Right. They got like a scholarship type thing to study and... So she went full-time ghost musician.

Whoa. According to Martin, this trust was supported by contributions from people who believed in the occult. I mean, it'd be weird of people that didn't believe. Yeah. Give her some money. Yeah, go on. Whatever. Yeah, exactly. I feel sorry for her.

So I think the mainstream of music's were obviously very skeptical of what she was up to, but it was quite a big thing, spiritualism back then apparently. And also, I think of new age, the new age something or other, which was sort of connected. They believed that the world was going to be all peace and love soon because of the new spiritual age that was coming. I'll paraphrase a little bit there, but I think that's kind of what they believed. But yes, she's now just doing this full time. The following year, Brown was interviewed on BBC TV, during which they asked her if she could

demonstrate how the process worked. Okay. So this is all on film. And she reflected on this in a 1976 documentary, which you can see on YouTube, which will be linked in the show notes called Music from the Beyond, which I thought maybe might be the name of this episode. I'm not sure yet. Love it.

I'll get your help with that later. I love it. What am I saying that now? So this is what she said on that documentary. of her time on the BBC. That was a very notable occasion when the BBC here in London asked me if I would try to work

with one of the composers while they were watching and recording. So I sent a sort of mental request out to composers to say, if any of them wanted to come and work, would they please come? So we sat in the room of my house with a tape recorder

and I didn't know who would come or if anybody would come at all. But then I saw that List was there and he said he had a piece of music to try to transmit to me. She then explained, quite a lot of detail how we gave her the instructions bit by bit and she wrote it all down. And she was like, oh, it was confusing, different time signatures for different hands and all

these sort of things. And she's like, this looks like a bit of a mess. She continued saying, I began to get very worried about it. I thought it could be total nonsense. It could be a terrible sounding piece of music. So I said to the BBC, would you mind if I try to play what I have so far because I want to know what it sounds like? And of course, I couldn't play it. I couldn't even read it, you know. But Jeffrey Skelton, who was with us, is a pianist. So he sat down at the piano and looked through it and then he played it through. And then he turned around very suddenly and said, Mrs. Brown, I think you've got something here. I think you've written the Smurfs thing. La la la la la la. She said, I was relieved to know it was a good piece of music.

Wow. Liss didn't give it a name at first. They continued working on it late. later. And when he finished it, he named it grubelai. Grubelay. That's a German word for, I think it sort of means feminine or something like that. Now, I don't think any of us are classical music experts. How do you? The fact that you too have never heard a list probably goes somewhere towards it. But it's possibly because I'm saying the name wrong.

Anyway, it's actually pronounced Beethoven. I don't know. I don't think you could possibly be pronouncing either of those words so wrong that we wouldn't have figured it out in context if we knew some time, you know? But I thought, like we did a few weeks ago on the Shaggs episode, we'll pause here and I'll play this piece of music, Grubelai,

which was recorded for you two and then we can come back and we can give your thoughts. Great. And maybe I'll play one of lists more famous pieces as well, so you can see if you're recognised. Yeah, okay, that's fantastic. So yeah, what do you think of that? Very dramatic.

It was, wasn't it? And the left and the right hand, at times are doing completely different things. Right. And then they sort of come together at points. But there's parts where they're playing their own things. Yeah, I don't understand how people can do that. Yeah.

That's, yeah, wow. So she wasn't, that recording isn't her. She played some, she ends up making an album. And she plays some of the more basic ones, but she had to get a more accomplished pianist to play most of them. But she's written that down. Yeah, she's written it down. with instructions about the different times.

Because I think like if we were all just to have a go and just writing down a piece of music. Yeah, no way. It wouldn't sound that. Absolutely not. Yeah. Like that. Exactly.

And she did that on camera in front of her. I mean, people, there are people who think she either is a mad, you know, she's imagining it. It's her subconscious or something. There's people who think she's just fake, fully faking it. And she does know music a bit better than she's saying. And there's other people who just fully believe that it's coming to her from the other side. But unlike the shags who had never played instruments and barely had lessons and stuff,

and you can hear that in a lot of their music. You're like, this doesn't make sense. When I'm saying the two hands are doing very different things, it still goes together. It still makes sense. That's pretty amazing. Yeah. And yeah, that, I mean, that piece has had a lot of praise from people who do know what they're talking about as well. But yeah, in general, her stuff is mixed. And I'll talk about the reception a little bit. later. But before that, we're talking about lists. The thing he said was, I'm going to come back, not just come back, but I'm going to come back and make you famous. Yeah. And that BBC interview did start to bring her more attention and even the fame that listed predicted or promised.

Led to her travelling around Europe and America playing at venues such as the Queen Elizabeth Hall in London and the town hall in New York. Wow. Coordinary, she appeared on Oscar Peterson's TV program as well as the Tonight Show with Johnny Cast. What? And on that, apparently, one of the things that a lot of people quote is that during the interview, she explained to the audience that spirits had told her there is no sex in heaven. What's disappointing? They're really bored and that's why they asked me to play some music from.

If they could be fucking. They've got to pass the time somehow. Well, if that's the case, send us to hell. Am I right, boys? Just can remember they're fucking in hell. Such a weird thing for me. to sign you up for as well. You're like, no, I'm still going to have a number.

But not. All for him. We're packaged here. What's go, boys. Orgies await. We love to bang amongst the flames. So I looked up the spelling of lists because you kept saying like, oh, maybe I'm mispronouncing it.

And I have heard of list because do you know the phrase Listermania? Yes. I know the Phoenix song. Yeah. Great song. Well, it's like the first thing. So that's named after him. Oh.

And I was a podcast about this recently, actually. So Listermania, it was kind of like a Beatlemania of like, you know, the early 1800s where he put on these big concerts and he's like a quite good looking charismatic showman. Like had the piano on the side so people could see what he was doing. One of the first people to do that. See his long white hair. And people would, yeah, put on a show and like people rushed the shows. And that's what it was described as Listermania. Oh, there you go.

That's one of the first, you know, mania is paving the way for beetle. Romania only 125 years later. No kidding. And he didn't always have long white hair. It's a bit of a fox though. Look at him. A bit brooding and like. Yeah, people said he was hot.

He looks like, yeah, like if that guy, there's the 1800s as well, he walks into a party and he's like a cool musician. A couple of heads of turning. Okay. And they're mine and yours. And we're going, hubber, hubber, hubber. Hey, can I get your drink? Can I get you anything?

Please. He's treated as one of the world. first pop stuff. Do you want my hands to do anything in particular to you or with you? Ah, just kidding. Just kidding. Or am I? Or am I?

Do you want to play piano or anything else? Anything else? I'm up for it, but I'm joking as well if you think that's weird. Apparently Leonard Bernstein dined her at the Savoy and then played some of her transcriptions and was especially thrilled by her Rachmaninov. Wow. As she gained this attention, she also attracted the inevitable skeptics who asked how she was able to communicate with these men.

You know, most of them don't speak English. Like Ludwig van Beethoven. It's a German. And she later explained, Beethoven has obviously taken the trouble to learn English since he passed over. Oh, okay, fantastic. Come on, guys, sing it through before you just frown out.

This baseless criticism. I mean, if you're not allowed to have sex, think about how much more time in your life you've got now. Yeah, you don't have to go to work. And that takes on mostly your time. You're like, I'm having sex like 22 hours a day. If you take that out, I don't have time to learn like dozens of language.

Exactly. I reckon to me, I would have been like, their spirits. They can do anything. Yeah. You're worried about the speaking different languages. Yeah. They're floating through space and time. They can go through a wall.

I think they can handle English. Yeah. And you don't want to say anything about Dave saying he fucks 22 hours a day? Don't want you, you're happy to move on from that? Yeah. Let him get away with that one. Matt knew that. Okay.

Is Matt involved? No, but how many hours are you on a day at the moment, Matt? You're waning yourself off at the moment. I'm waiting myself. I'm down at the time. 23. Trying to get more done in your life. I'm early in the process.

I'm tired all the time. Trying to wane up. Yeah. Weing up. It's pretty much all callous down there. So, yeah, you can't argue with that logic anyway. Beethoven, she said, you know, the ones that didn't speak English before, they've learned English sense. He's been dead a long time.

Yeah. Okay. He's learned some languages. Come on. Or you can just say, we speak the only true international language. Music. Yes. Or he also speaks Arabic, but you're not questioning me about that.

Yeah. Huh? It's like in the good place. They were all from different places. They all could understand each other. It's just... You hear each other in your language. That's nice.

Did he just write back with a link to the good place? Yeah. How about this? How about this? Watch a few seasons of this. Okay? That'll answer a few questions. Yes.

Also, it's just a delightful show. It's quite funny. Okay. It's just a nice... It's a good place to be. Yeah. You might want to just chill the F out. She also.

passed on a lot of quirky details from the other side. As Martin wrote, she described the various composers in often humorous detail. Beethoven, she said, was no longer deaf and had lost that crabby look in her words. Cop that Beethoven. So what's he look like now? Less crab like. Less crab like. And he can hear.

He doesn't have the pincers. The pincers. It makes piano easier. Much easier. Debusy wore very bizarre clothes, apparently, and was a hippie tie. and Chopin kept screaming something in French. It turned out to be a warning that her bathtub was overflowing. Le bath?

What is he saying? So he speaks English. They've all that time to do. Yeah, but when you're panicking, you go back to your native time. Yeah. One day. I mean, you're all one of these skeptics who are asking the wrong questions. In an emergency, you're just going to bust out some French, are you?

Yeah, you're going fluent French. Yes. Sheppapel Dave. There's a fire. She's sweet. There's a lay. There's a fire. She also talked about shopping with lists and how he was interested in the price of bananas

and watching television with Chopin, who was appalled by what he saw. That's so good. I got onto this story reading a book by Dan Schreiber called The Theory of Everything Else, A Voyage into the World of the Weird. And there's a chapter on people who've, like, created stuff with the help of the other side. Which I... That's cool. Yeah, I really enjoy this book.

very, it's, it's, it's just a lot of interesting things. So I'm going to quote from that book now. He writes, Brown and the composers would often hang out and chat. List in particular was basically viewed as one of the family. According to Brown, they'd talk about current pop music, watch TV, and List would even help out with the kid's homework. There's an example of her son, Thomas, going, Mom, I need help with this question. What's, uh, one squared plus two square plus three squared? And she cut him off and said, uh, list says it's 385. And he wrote, he's a, I didn't even finish the question. He wrote it down and then the next day got the tick.

Correct. Wow. Wow. If I'm dead, I'm spending none of my time doing homework, let alone other people's homework. You know what I mean? I'd like figure it out yourself, kid. I can, but think about how much time you've got in the day.

Now you're not having sex. Think about it. You've got time for maths now. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Finally. Finally, I could learn maths. But honestly, Liss, Thomas isn't going to learn if you just give him the answer.

Exactly. Show him how to figure it out. Yeah. So I was pretty disappointed there. Sit down with the boy. Yes. Sit down with your boy. Come on, ghost man.

Sit down with the boy. Put your hands in his hands. Don't forget they are his own. They are small. He's a child. That's true. Trubber goes on to say he was also helpful with keeping her out of danger. List said to her at one point, be careful today.

You're going to have three fires in the house. And she did. Three fires. Which is a word. That's too many. That's a lot of fires in your house. I'm getting to two and leaving the apartment. Yeah.

I'm thinking Lister's setting these fires, right? I think List is like, he's got his own kind of, you know, psychic abilities or something. I mean, imagine making the third call to the fire department for the day. Hey, it's not again. Sorry, guys, it's happened again. You won't believe this. Oh, are you still at the front? No, I already tell that.

Have you boys left yet? Fantastic. It's happened again. So I'll put the kettle on for you. Oh, my God. I was going to offer you some lunch, but I'm too scared to cook. I'll burn the toast. Now, see, Mr. Brown, we've noticed what we think is the problem.

You're cooking everything with gasoline. And naked flames. Yeah, naked flames. We don't, you don't need that for toast. It's not necessary. Yeah, I think that's just such a funny. To me, it sounds like List is creating problems just so he is useful. He's useful to her.

He's not fucking 24 hours a day. Yeah. He can feel like a hero. That's how he's getting off by being told you did good. You did good, Listie. Oh, man. The blueness of his balls. The deepest of blues.

Almost black. It's that blue. It's that blue that you're like, is this navy or black? I can't tell. I need to find something else black to compare it to. It's that. And then is the thing I'm comparing it to? Fuck, is it Navy?

Is it Navy? Are they Navy or Black? Oh, Beethoven, he's been dead longer. Apparently, after a while, Liszt became so comfortable living in the 60s. He even lost his Victorian clothing and started dressing in the fashion of the day.

He changed his ghost fashion. Wow. So it's wearing like a Sergeant Pepper's uniform. Yeah, very modern. I'd be relieved by that because you know how a lot of like a ghost shows and stuff? They're always in the clothes they died in or whatever. Yeah. Let me update this a bit.

He wore apparently what was called a what's called a Cossack or something. It's like an old robe that a, you know, a Christian monk or something might have worn it back in the day. So, yeah, that is very ghosty. Yeah. Anything flowy. Let me update this. I'm going to put on some skinny jeans. Isn't that amazing that you can do that?

Yeah. On the astral plane or wherever it is? Especially if you like, you died in something uncomfortable, then I'd be like, fuck. Oh, you're trapped in it. Yeah. Or if you were buried in a tuxedo or something, you're like, this isn't practical. No. Oh, that's an interesting point.

We should be burying people. enclosed that are comfortable. Snuggies. Yeah. Is that a thing? Yeah. Yeah. Oodles.

Is that a thing? Ouddy. Oudies. Should be buried with your ouddle. Sorry, I'm free. He's going down with me. So she now had a huge collection of songs. List alone had given her around 200.

And so it was time for Rosemary to release an album. Of course it was. This is in 1970 and she titled it a musical seance. Oh, that's good. I was going to say songs in the key of ghosts. Oh, that's good. But a musical seance is way better. Songs in the key of ghosts.

This is my first, you know, no bad ideas. Music to die for. Oh, that's pretty good too. That's pretty good too. Music to come back to laugh for? Clunky. That's okay. No bad ideas.

This is a brainstorming. Let's stick with the seance one. Yeah, the sounds is really great. She went through all this before. Of course. We're just going through this for the first time. Gordon Oshryber, the album was released in 1970 by the record label Phillips, whose other output around that time includes David Bowie's Space Oddity. Really?

It wasn't some little unknown label. It's called Philip. Like Phillips. I was hoping it was just called Philip. Like the massage place? I immediately thought of Philip Massage here in Melbourne. The CBD, if you want a massage, go see the good people at Philip. Philip.

What were they thinking? Philip Massage. I don't know how legit that one is, to be honest. Okay. I'm not, I'm just... Money laundering or sexy stuff? I don't doubt... I think they're laundering.

I don't doubt the good people at Philip. No, Philip, I'm sure it's very aboveboarded Philip massage. Absolutely. But that is the funniest name for business, I think there is. Philip. But this is Phillips. It's not funny. But Phillips records are still pretty funny too.

Phillips. Yes. But they did, they did, you know, pretty early. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, Spaceo do, one of the big ones and a lot of Elton John's US singles as well. The album contains a collection of classical pieces by a number of different composers, including eight works by lists, three by Chopin, and one each by Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, DeBussey, Greig and Schumann.

Jess is just pausing the podcast. She's looked up, Philip Massage on Google, and there is an image of their logo, and it is funny. It is funny. I want people visiting Melbourne to start getting photos out the front of Philip. Yeah. I think that's a reasonable request. It's a pilgrimish to Philip. That's all right.

If you come, if you go into town to see a show at Comedy Republic, it's just around the corner. Oh, it's so close. So if you're going up to, you know, to the Broadway of Melbourne up near the, it's not far from the theaters either. Yeah, what do we call that? London's got the West End. New York's got Broadway. And we've got Philip. And we're lucky.

We're lucky. We're lucky. It's a Philip district. What's true. What street is street is that? It's funny that we don't have a name for it. It's on Russell. Yeah, that's on Russell and they're a bit further down.

Maybe, well, they may be one up on exhibition, aren't they? No, they're on Russell. Are they? Yep. I thought like the comedy theatre and... It's on 162 Russell Street. Philip? Yes.

Philip, but what about the, like Her Majesty's Theatre and those sorts of comedy theatre? I mean, I spent a lot of time there, obviously. I was waiting for your apology because I thought you were talking about that. That sounds like, no, I'm right. But I wasn't listening. Sorry. And it wasn't worth interrupting and I apologise, Matt. Absolutely, it was worth interrupting.

But so she's putting out this compilation, which is like imagining the ad for it on TV. The feel good hit of the 1970s featuring Chopin. Yeah. Brahms. And the guy who performed most of the album, Peter Caiton, was a musician known for his interpretations of the music Chopin wrote while he was still alive. Oh. So, like, she was working with legit musicians as well.

Yeah, and then they're playing and then she's like, no, no, sorry, the ghost said that wasn't quite right. Yeah. Can you do that again? And they're like, fuck. Oh, my God. In the middle of the album, uh, which you can listen to on the regular streaming services online, there's a commentary track by Brown as well.

What's it say? I love that. Well, as Shriver explains out of nowhere, you get a six minute long commentary track in which Brown takes you through the songs and explains how she collaborates. with the musicians on them, saying stuff like, Champagne isn't at all what I thought he would be. He's not melancholy at all. He makes jokes and he's lighthearted.

Schubert, is lovely too. He communicates smoothly and quietly. He alters music just after he's given it. He'll edit. All the other composers seem to have them prepared, but he is writing as he goes. Wow. Just improv.

Yeah, I love that. Do you want to just have another quick pause now and I'll play some of this commentary track? Yeah. If people are listening at home want to check it out, it's called Commentary by Rosemary Brown. It's track 10 on the album. I'm so excited. It's all like that she talks are very matter-of-factly and...

Yeah, like it all happened and, you know, like she describes what the process was. And some people think she's just flat out making it up. But that wouldn't it be what? Like, I don't know. It's just, it's just an inner. I just find it very interesting. If she's making it all up, she's playing it very cool. You would think people would sort of embellish more or really perform it.

She's just like, yeah, that's how it happens, I guess. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, that's right. I guess that. And that's, I think apparently this was quite a big thing. People would say where she's not the only person who's ever said this has happened. But normally they would just be improvising basically going, they're playing the music

through me right now. But she was rare in the fact that they were like dictating it to her and stuff and she's writing it down. And then she said she had to basically wait to be taught how to play it. Yeah, which is very interesting. And I think as well, I mean, maybe, surely there would be people who are experts in that particular composer who'd be able to like listen or read this music and be like, well, that is sort of their style. Yes. How would she know the style?

She's not a professional musician. Yeah, which is exactly what people who believe they use those kind of arguments. Because people have looked into it. They'll say, like, the quality varies quite a lot. and that's what people who believe and don't believe say, which would make sense, you know, like, it's not like they've only, they've never written duds on. Even the greats would, you know, they're just banging out stuff.

You know, if you did take it at face value. Yes, right. But also, like, is there varying genre that she's, she writes? Yes, there is. It doesn't all sound the same. No, the genres who vary and, or the styles vary. Yeah. And some will say that it's like she's just sort of,

of taken their music and done a pastiche of it. You know, like, yeah. But that would mean that she's sort of been lying about how much she knows about the music and that sort of stuff as well, which is possible. She could just quietly have studied them all. But others think that she's just done it subconsciously. Like she doesn't realize she's done that. Wow.

I find it very fascinating anyway. Yeah. I can't believe in it. but I just, I like the idea of it. I don't think it's fun just to hear about it. Totally. I don't necessarily think I'm a full believer, but in a situation like this,

she's not hurting anybody. I don't really like it when people are, yeah, when people are using these sorts of abilities to take advantage of others, I think that's awful. But like, if you've got,

you know, it's often like older relatives that are going to see mediums and stuff like that. And if it brings them comfort, what harms it doing? Yeah. You know what I mean? As long as it's not causing you anybody else any harm.

Yeah, like I don't like it when they give like false hope. Like, oh, you've lost your son, I will find them or whatever, like that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if it's just sort of like, you know, your parents have been gone a long time, your dad says he likes this and it brings somebody comfort for a moment. I don't have an issue with that. And your dad's also saying that he wants you to give me some of his inheritance. I mean, I, sorry, let me speak to your father.

I couldn't possibly. Sir, please. You insist? That I don't like. That's the only way you can pass over into heaven. Oh, my goodness. You know, there's no sex up there. This is so awkward.

He's fine with that. Yeah, I don't like that. But in situations like this, I don't think she's harming anybody. I think it's pretty cool. Yeah, I love this story. Yes. So the question, we've kind of talked about it, but was it any good? Well, it's had pretty mixed reviews.

I mean, the song we played before, Grubelai. Yeah. You both seem to think it was pretty good, but like I say, no. What do we know, exactly? I go listen to any sort of classical music and I think often it's, I'm like, oh, this is very nice. Yeah, so you can tell me it's great and I'd go, good. Yeah.

You say terrible. I agree. They'd never played a piano in their life. Yes. I can hear that. I can hear it. They have not. I don't know what I'm talking about.

It's saying it's like art. People like, this is amazing. I'm like, yeah, it is. Or they're like, what a piece of shit. I'm like, I agree. Yeah. I have no idea. I tend to just be like, I like the colors.

Yeah, yeah. That's a very realistic picture. I love how big it is. I like how colourful is. Yeah, that's right. Matt loves the big and colourful. Yeah. That's what art is to me.

Agreed. The bigger the better. Yep. Size matters in art. I think he just need glass. Yeah, yeah. I do it like I've got my text on the computer right now. It's the same with art.

Yeah. Could we make the font of this bigger? So, yeah, got pretty mixed reviews and even the ones who were favourable would point out that a lot of the tracks aren't too good, like our mate Parrott, who was a staunch believer in her. And also a composer. Also a musician. Yeah, he was a musician.

And when he met her, like, it wasn't like he always believed, but he believed in that kind of world a bit. Yep. He listened and he was, he's right into it, you know. And this is, he wrote her obituary for the Guardian. That's what I've been reading out from his quotes. He wrote, even if some of the other pieces from composers, including Chopin, Scha, Schubert, Debussy, and Rachmaninova lightweight.

The 1969 item called Grubeli, the one that we listened to before and that was partly written with the BBC interview, is undoubtedly a most spectacular and unusual piece. It has strong harmonies and cross rhythms. The composer and list specialist Humphrey Searle said, We must be grateful to Mrs. Brown for making it available to us. Wow. And that, yeah, Humphrey Searle's like one of the list gurus. Yeah.

He's still got Listermania. All these years later. Yeah, he's a Listermania. Searle also published an essay noting the similarity of Mrs. Brown's list pieces with his later official compositions. Some skeptics and musicologists who aren't into it were like, yeah, it sounds like them, but they didn't play music that just sounded like what they'd already done. They were always, you know.

Yeah. Changing and adapting and growing and. But their argument there is if it doesn't sound like them, it's them. Yeah, where's the evolution? And others are arguing it doesn't sound like them, it's not them. Yeah, like you can't win there. No. You're like, now that sounds like him, pretty sure it's not him.

Same people who are like, I don't like the Arctic monkeys anymore. They should have stuck to their old stuff. It's like, yeah, they've been around for a very long time. Yeah. And those albums are still there. Yeah, you can still listen to them. And they can't possibly just do the same thing forever or all. They'll die.

They're like sharks in that way. You've got to keep moving. The Arctic monkeys got to keep moving. I guess the shark is like an, Arctic monkey. Oh my God. An underwater, underwater Arctic monkey?

Wow. Oh my God, you're right. Makes you think. That does make you think. That makes you think, yeah, you're right. While Leonard Bernstein was into the piece by Rachmaninov, as I mentioned before, apparently he didn't have a lot of time for much of the rest. According to Martin, Andre Previn, then conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra,

said that if the newfound compositions were genuine, they would be best have been left on the shelf. Oh, okay. That's nasty. That's catty. Meow. And is she just composing just piano parts? You know how like, you know, they would do all orchestra, that kind of thing? I think it's just the piano.

It's just a piano part. And she's like, yeah, you feel it. If you want to play it with a Philharmonic, just fill in the rest. Yeah, yeah. Would you're a Philharmonic. Isn't that what you do? Okay. Philharmonic, fill in the rest, okay?

Fill it massage. Phil grere it out. Phil massage. If we can get a sponsorship going on, I would be so stuck. But they only pay and massage. I'm okay with that. Hey, we'll accept. But I'm only accepting it if it's from Philip himself.

The British composer Richard Rodney Bennett, who did the music for films such as four weddings and a funeral and the Brinks job, which was an episode we did not too long ago, one of the film adaptations of that story. And he did a bunch of other movies as well as all sorts of things. funeral, right? Yes, that's probably the most famous one. It's like my all-time fave. All right, there you go. Wow.

Love that movie. So he did all that and he was entirely convinced. This is according to Martin, at least at the time. He said that when he was having trouble with the composition of his own, Mrs. Brown passed along Debussy's recommendation and it worked. It was like real specific stuff like putting staccato in certain areas. And he said, if she is a fake, she's a brilliant one and must have had years of training. This is what he said to Time magazine.

Some of the music is awful, but some is marvellous. I couldn't have faked the Beethoven myself. Wow. Wow. What I must say, it was good enough for Debusy. Yeah. It's good enough for me. Debusis is one of the great names.

Put your whole de busi into it. Heaven. No de bussy. But I also like how everyone seems to have a different one that they're like, this one's brilliant. All these different people who are experts are like, there's one saying that list piece is brilliant. He's saying the Beethoven one is.

Bernstein said the Rachmaninov one. It's coming across like music is subjective, which is crazy. Wow. As mentioned, Ian Parrott is another big believer, as Jeffries wrote. Parrot believed she wasn't clever enough to fake what she could. Come on, Parrott. To fake what she transcribed. She's like, that's what I've been saying.

That's so brutal. That's your defence of it. She's an idiot. Have you seen her? He gave friends with her too. Have you spoken to this woman? Not much happening upstairs. Let me tell you.

This is what he wrote in her obituary. In my view, the limitations of her training left her unfettered by too much formal apparatus and so better place to receive music from others, which we were sort of talking about before. List apparently told Brown as much. She related him telling her, quote, A musical background would have caused you to acquire too many ideas and theories of your own. These would have been an impediment to us. So that's what Lists told Brown.

Right, we wanted a blank canvas. Yeah. We wanted a bit of an idiot. Yes. A sweet idiot. Her fingers could work a piano in a beginner's way, but he'd make them dance. Cross those beautiful keys. That's nice.

Back to Jeffries. Here's another theory. Musicologist Dennis Matthews, writing in The Listener in 1969, suggested that maybe Brown was too clever to be detected by Parrot's musical radar. Perhaps she, I love that sort of a little back in her.

Yeah, parrot. He's the idiot. Yeah. Yeah. They're all pointing fingers at each other. Perhaps she soft peddled

her musical training and in reality composed pastiches of dead white men's music rather than passively channeling their posthumous compositions. So that was his theory

was she actually was very good. She was very good, didn't let on and just sort of put together these reworkings basically of stuff they already did.

Jeffries continues. As for Rosemary Brown's music, questions remain. If she really was a fraud who actually composed all these works herself, why did she not write her own music? If only there was some way we could contact her from the other side to get these answers. Very funny stuff from Jeffries. But she's not coming down. She's not working through other people. Yeah, isn't that interesting? Well, I guess she, her skill was being the medium on this side. But so you'd think she'd be able to find someone. to work through. If they've found her, yeah. Who knows? Maybe she's like, I just want to break. I'm just going to enjoy heaven for a bit. Yeah.

Maybe she found the fuck room in hell. The fuck room. In hell, it's all a fuck room, man. Oh, sounds like hell. Sounds like my life. Your life is hell. Yeah. I just want some sleep.

Nah, can't have it. Got to fuck. My parents listen to the podcast. been a, yeah, a bit of a funny episode. There'll be people, new listeners coming and, oh, lovely story about this. Classical music and a nice lady. Oh, my goodness. I'm turning this off.

This is no good. I think that's another possible title. Classical music and a nice lady. I think ghost musician would really get people's attention. Music in the key of ghosts? I won't say no. So there's talk about, is, does the music? have any merit? You know, no matter what, what we know, we can never know what's real and what

isn't, but does the music itself have merit? And apparently, Igor Torini Lelik, the artistic director at the London Contemporary Music Festival, thinks Brown's music has value whatever you think of the story saying. The genius of these works is that they move music into conceptual art territory far ahead of anyone else, in that the works emphasise and prioritise the context, the reception, the origin story, the nature of reality and time itself over the sound. Whenever we listen to our work, we are absorbing all this information, but composers and critics and musicologists pretend it's just about notes. She's the first to say it's so much more than just the notes.

The fact that we don't know whether she did this consciously or not makes the work all the more intriguing and beguiling. Even if you think she's a fraud, he argues that, just at the level of improvisation, it's amazingly fluent and shows a lot of level of skill mixed with mischief that is pretty inspiring and astonishing. I love a level of skill mixed with mischief. Yeah. It's a great combo. And it is incredible that she could keep the improvisation up. Yeah.

Keep the character off. Yeah. Totally. What do you think of his point there that it's like she's basically turned it in? It's a story. And that's why, like, potentially if she just put all, if she is a fraud and she wrote all this music, maybe she would have had a bit of minor success. But this is given it a whole story. Yeah. Which a lot of pop and rock stars do, don't they? Give themselves that mysterious background.

Yeah. She also didn't really push that hard, like other people kind of heard her music and gave her that sort of grant to be able to keep doing it. And it sort of feels like she didn't seek a lot of this out. Yeah, that's the vibe I get as well. Which if she was doing it for the attention, for the money for whatever, you'd think she'd be seeking it out a little more. but it kind of felt like people came to her

and thought the story was interesting and wanted to interview her or, you know? Yeah. And yeah, I don't know. I tend to just sort of, in this case, I think I'm like, yeah, that was probably, you were probably channeling spirits. Yeah.

That's cool. Totally. I love it. I'm glad they weren't spooky and watching you in the shower and just helping you play some music. That's nice. And like a lot of big musicians talk like that as well. Like McCartney says he wrote, I think,

yesterday or let it be. One of those songs just came to him. in a dream. Yep. And he felt like one of them, his mum was sort of working through it. You know, people, whether that's your subconscious or whatever. Yeah. And we all have like instances where your intuition tells you something.

And, you know, you hear stories of people being like, I don't know, I just decided to take a different route that day and something happened or, you know, I could have been in this situation. You know, you hear stories like that and we don't really question them that much. Oh, yeah. This does take that to another level, though. Totally. For decades had conversations with these dead men.

Oh, yeah. In front of a camera. Who played my hands. Oh, yeah. I'm not saying it's the same as just like having a gut feeling, but like maybe some people are more tapped into it than others. It's more having a hand feeling. That's right.

And she also seemed to like befriend them. Like she'd be watching TV with them. Yeah. Doing the kids homework. Again, I like, I don't, you can pull it apart. I don't really care to do it because again, she didn't harm anybody. And what's the point of shitting all over it? How does it change things?

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah. I think, yeah, for the most part, if things aren't hurting anyone, and she was happy, you know, like you probably could, it seems like it happened a lot more after a lot of people died in her life and maybe, you know, could have been loneliness manifesting itself.

Yeah, who knows? I don't know, but, I mean, it happened since she was quite young. Yeah. But, so everything we've talked about so far, we're coming up to the end, but everything we've talked about so far was about musicians and composers who visited her, but apparently it wasn't just people of music who visited it. Over the years, more and more people came.

According to Jeffrey, she claimed to have communed with spirits including Einstein, Shaw, Jung, and Bertrand Russell, which must have surprised the last one, as in his essay, Do We Survive Death? Russell had concluded that we don't. I was like, what the hell? Oh, God damn it. Can you? Don't tell anybody.

Yeah, can you do a few edits to that essay? I reckon Einstein would be a handy one for the homework, wouldn't he? Oh, yeah. You get the maths homework wrong, and then you're like, I know, I think you're fine. Yeah. My kid was right here. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, the teacher, like, all of a sudden is like, oh my God. They become world famous scientists. The list doesn't get any less impressive as it goes on. She also took up painting under the gardens of masters such as Vincent Van Gogh or Goh or Gough, depending on who you are. Gough. Samuel Palmer, William Blake and J.M.W. Turner. She was also visited by Shakespeare and St. Paul. Oh, my God.

And are the paintings pretty good? Well, I would have no idea. They look fine to me. But one of the guys who was writing about it was like they look pretty ordinary to them. But he came across as a knob to me. Okay. Yeah. All right, snooty man.

It's in an obituary, mate. Why are you, why are you batting out of paintings the week she died? Let's save the criticism. I don't know. It was a bit. This wasn't paramed. by the way. No, it would never be parrot.

Oh my God. Lise a good boy. Yeah. It was that dog, uh, Douglas, whatever is name, Douglas Marn. Fuck you, Douglass. What a dog. Oh, fuck her Douglas.

More like art shitic, instead of critic. Thank you. Oh, that's a high five. According to Shriver, she wrote poetry dictated to her by Emily Bronte, William Blake and Samuel Taylor Coolridge. That's right. Yeah.

Honestly, these people need to chill the fuck out. You're dead. Your time for creating stuff is over. Just relax. Isn't it wild? She was prolific. Yeah. Like she was doing all sorts of different arts.

And craft. And crafts. Wow. Really? Yeah. Craft as well. She also transcribed two new plays by George Bernard Shaw. Wow.

One of which Caesar's revenge was performed at the 1978 Edinburgh Fringe. That's sick. Isn't that sick? Wow. Caesar's revenge. Sadly, of course, all good things must come to an end. and Rosemary passed away in London on the 16th of November 2001 at the age of 85. Wow, good innings.

Yeah. 2001. She was alive not long ago. This was in the past in my mind. Yeah, this was ancient. We had, I crossed over with a woman who was crossing over. Yeah. Amazing.

So, yeah, but isn't it, isn't it amazing, she wrote multiple plays. I mean, if she was doing this all herself, even if they're bad. What a work I think. Yeah. Yeah. Good on it. She's correct. created a lot of stuff.

And like self-motivated, that's tough. That's tough to do. Single mother? A couple of kids. Yeah. She's busy. She can do it all. Her legacy does live on.

Brown was the subject of a BBC radio four drama, the Lambeth Waltz, in 2017. And in 2019, a selection of the piano music she transcribed by Rachmaninov, Beethoven, and List was performed by pianist Siwan Reese during the London Contemporary Music Festival. Wow. To finish up, Shriver suggests Brown's journey. was perhaps best summed up by respected composer Sir Donald Tovey, who provided a blurb for her album, a musical science writing. There are always those who scoff at that which they cannot or will not understand, and the threat of these Philistines may induce hesitation in some people to

place before the world new or unusual ideas and experiences. Those who are most likely to block progress in your world are the inveterate skeptics who fondly assume that their immovable intellectualism denotes an ingenious and infallible judgment. I like that paragraph. And Tovey, who wrote these words, did so 30 years after his death, as relayed to Brown from the beyond. Did she write her own blur? No, she didn't.

No, she did it. Dictated it. It was dictated to her. Defending herself, that's so good. I don't know why you're laughing, Dave. Anyone who says that I'm an idiot is a Philistine. A quote from this great genius. Are you going to dispute what this genius said?

No. I would look like an idiot. Exactly. That is great stuff. So, I don't know, I just love this story. And that is the story of Rosemary Brown and music in the key of ghost. I think there's something to it. Yeah.

All right. Well, that brings us to everyone's. favorite section of the show where we thank some of our fantastic Patreon supporters. The first thing we like to do, well, firstly, tell you, if you want to get involved, go to Patreon.com slash do go on pod and you can sign up on a bunch of different levels. There's all sorts of stuff. You get three bonus episodes a month at certain levels. You get to vote on topics.

You get to go into the nicest corner of the internet, our Facebook group. And many other things, including the fact quote or question section. If you sign up on the Sydney-Shymber level or above, you get to give us a fact quote or question or a bragger or suggestion or anything else really and I think this section actually has a jingle fact quote or question ding he always remembers the ding she always remembers the jingle actually do you know that music just came to me from one of the greats widget the world watcher uh featuring de bussy oh yeah that's a de bussy ding and the people who give us a fact quote or question also get to give us a title or give themselves a

should I say, and I read them out for the first time on the episode. That's really just me, preparing you for me to mispronounce things. The first one this week comes from Blake Pilkington, aka artist formerly known as Pilky 1999. Oh, what's that? Pilky. And Pilky, Pilkington, has a question writing, is there any artists that you would recommend to anyone looking for new music? For me, I recommend the ratings or the claws to anyone looking for new music. Thank you, Pilky. So nice. I love it.

Thank you Pilkin's or the claws? Or the claws. Okay. C-L-A-U-S-E. Right. Copy that, Clause. Well, I'd recommend the music of Rosemary Brown, a musical seance available to stream online. And it's surprisingly very low numbers on Spotify, like Grubalize.

only had just over 3,000 plays. Really? Let's bump that up, everyone. Let's give her a go. Yeah. What have you been listening? I mean, I've been loving the new Friends of Rom album lately. I think maybe one of my favorite albums this year is this young fathers, heavy, is the name of the album. But Jess, you're really the one to probably ask a question like this.

We were just talking about this before we started. Perfect. What were you talking about? So, okay, I won't tell the whole backstory, but basically, I was recommended to check out a song to play on radio last weekend. And it was by a band called Big Blood, who I'd never heard of before. And I listened to the song and I was like,

well, this is automatically going to be on like one of my all-time lists, you know, like I just loved it immediately. You loved it. I played it on air and lots of people really, really loved it as well. I got texts from people I know in real life. Kirstie Webeck messaged me and said, I loved that because she was listening. So Big Blood, the song is called A Thousand Times.

I haven't listened to much else of Big Blood yet. But go listen to that song. Wow. And they're from Maine. Yeah, they're like a family band. Family band from Maine. And this is a big blood on Spotify a thousand times. That would be it?

Yep. It's only had like not even 5,000 streams. Like it's, yeah. They can't, I think they've got a bit of like a cult following. You're on at the ground level here, Bob. Love that. But they've been around for yonks. They've been around for ages.

So. Oh, yeah. 2008 album here. Yeah. Go check them out. Uh, anything from you, Dave, before we move on. What have I been listening to as I scroll through here? I loved Lexus on Fires' latest album, which did come out last year,

but I didn't get into it straight away, but after a few plays, it's fantastic. You've been listening to the Frenzel album? No, I haven't listened to that new one yet. The Cup of Pestolence. It's really great. It sounds very much up my alley. Yeah, I think you would enjoy it very much. Also been enjoying pigs, pigs, pigs, pigs, pigs, pigs, pigs, pigs.

Their album, Land of Sleeper. How many pigs are we talking there? Seven pigs. Seven picks. But yeah, great question, Blake. We could bang on about that all day. Usually I couldn't. So I'm glad that it's hit at this exact time where I had something I was excited about.

Thank you for that question. Pilky. The next one comes from Amy Clark, aka Brigadier General, forgettable name. And the Brigadier General's question is, forgot her name. Genuine thanks again to Matt for not remembering my name when mentioning the wintertime photos. I enjoy sharing on the Facebook group on the Nome Serum Run episode. Without you, I never would have risen to the heights of Brigadier General. My question today is, what skill or talent do you gamify your day with or take an odd pleasure in that maybe others poke fun at you for?

I'm good at packing and organising, so I gamify my day by playing a little game like dishwasher Tetris, where I always get the high score and my partner enjoys making fun of me for my little weirdsy point of pride. I always get the high score. I hope you've all recovered from Melbourne Comedy Festival by the time this is read out. I'm really hoping to make the trip to be there next year. Oh, thank you so much, Brigadier General Amy Clark. I do love your wintertime photos. She just sat out the front door said, but it's just all white.

Oh, cool. Unbelievable, isn't it? Lovely photos, love them. You feel like someone, Dave, that would gamify things? Definitely count the steps. Yeah, that's a game of fire. Definitely. I don't know if I'd heard the term gamify before.

I love it. I'm into it. What else would I? I definitely do. I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now. It's a tricky one. I'm sure there's other things I do as well. What about when you're sending out mail?

Do you count the amount of envelopes? Yeah, the stamps. Yeah. And then I count how many I do it an hour and then try and beat it. Yeah, yeah. And then this one time I was trapped under a pile of newspapers in a game. garage and I had a basketball on you and to pass the time I counted how many times I could bounce in an hour and then I'd try and beat it. Yeah. You are the real life skinner for sure.

Great question, Amy. I also, I'm not sure if I can come up with anything. It'd be putting out the washing or something. I'm going, I will next time. Oh, I've been getting into, as well as doing my French lessons, I'm now doing duolingo on my phone. And it loves telling you how many days in a row you've done it. And I'm on a streak. Oh, yeah. And it tells you, and that's very much, yeah, that they try and gamify a learning language. Oh, yeah, yeah.

That's a good call. I wasn't into that for a while on a meditation app. They had similar things like that. And I've dropped way off that now. Yeah, I remember because it was starting to stress you out. It was having the opposite effect. Oh, no. I haven't done my 15.

Yeah. What a funny thing. Because it does work. It does motivate you to, like, keep up the streak. You don't want to break it. I was there at 11.56 p.m. the other night. Yeah.

I've got to finish this exercise by midnight, otherwise my streak will be broken. Exactly. So you're not taking any information in. I'm firing through it going whatever. Yep, yep, yep. Uh-huh, whatever. You failed a level.

It doesn't matter. Yeah. Who cares? That's a great question. I'm going to think about that. Thank you very much, Amy. The next one comes from Angelo del Gnuch. Okay, Robert Tolliger.

Not the Simpsons reference there. This side show. And Angelo or Robert Toilliger's got a quote, which is, And my ass. And that quotes from. giblets. There you go. Giblets, probably.

And finally this week, this one comes from a secret with a secret title. And they're writing in a complaint and promise. Well, fair enough there to keep it anonymous. Yeah. Because you know I'll come fully out. Here we go. Writing, I'm drunk, he, he. So my question is, when are we getting another shit face Matt episode?

I'm talking Julia Child levels of drunk. Is Matt a kid? coward? Is that why we're not getting more drunk Matt episodes? Matt, if you do your next report, Julia trial drunk, I will give you a thousand dollars. This is a promise. Yeah, but you've kept it anonymous, so how could we ever know? We can't hold you to account. Can't hold you to it. Well, I'll tell you. I got a message, a DM in the Patreon group a few days later that read, Hey Matt, just a heads up. I might have gotten very drunk and did a fact quote of question where I offered you a substantial amount of money for a drunk report.

I cannot stand by that promise. Okay, okay. I have a vague memory of it. And I said, going to have to hold you to it. Sorry, mate. Sorry, we've got it in writing now. It's in writing. And you've admitted who you are now.

That's a contract. Wow. I said, how much is it? A million? And he said, you'll need to find out. Okay. I know you found out. It's not a million.

That's a thousand. And that man is Jordan Nassie. Jordan, I'm expecting the cash. Yeah. Are you drunk? Challenge accepted. Oh, no. I didn't do it.

Oh. Would you get drunk for $1,000? Uh, yeah. Okay. Could there have been a lower number? Well, Jordan. Could I have saved Jordan some cash there? Yeah, probably, possibly.

But, I mean, if we recorded it after my dad's birthday party, during it. I think you're only just recovering. Yeah. I, yeah. Just trying to keep up with older fellas is a mistake. It's a mistake. You know, with older fellas. There's a, I mean, they...

It's crazy to me, there are people older than you. How is that possible? And there's people that can drink more than you. Yeah. How is that possible? Well, that, I mean, I could say older than me. My dad is younger than me. But, um, I'm a miracle.

Anyway, thank you to Jordan, Angelo, Amy and Blake. Our next thing we like to do is shout out to a few other great supporters. Bob, you normally come up a little bit of a game to play based on their name. Yeah, we're naming their... ghost album. Oh, yeah. We came up with so many good ones. I think we could do more.

And I've still got the horse name generator open if we need help. So it's good to have the horse name generator. We can ghostify. You give us the name and we'll ghostify it. Great. And turn it into an album. A bit beyond. Yeah, a bit spooky.

All right. If I can kick us off, I'd love to thank from North Perth in Western Australia, Claire McLean. I love that. Specific, but not very specific. Somewhere in North Perth. North Perth, Claire McLean. all of that is fun to say together.

Clare McLean. Right, Jess, how are we looking on the horse name generator? Survivor Dream. Oh, yeah. I didn't survive a dream. Oh. Because they're dead. How to survive a dream.

Okay. That's good. Yeah, how to survive a dream is like, that sounds like a Delta Gudram album. Yeah, it does. And that's a compliment. That's huge. I was going to say a huge compliment right there. Huge compliment.

Absolutely. Nothing of the best. Uh, sorry, yes. Next up for me, I'd love to thank from Arlington in Virginia. Will Mulheron. What's Will Mulheron's album? Mouse bonjourne. Oh, mouse bonjour and goodbye.

Wow. Can't speak both languages in the afterlife. Bilingual. Yeah, bilingual. Well, they're probably multilingual, aren't they? They've got so much time up there. That's so good. They can speak both of the languages.

Mouse bonjour and goodbye. Language to me is a binary. There's English and French. Okay, yep. I've seen the Olympics. And finally for me, I'd love to thank from Canada in Ontario, Canada. It's Amanda Smart. Majestic secret.

Oh, I mean, that is already a majestic ghost secret. There it is. Right there. God, it's easy. Or a majestic secret of a ghost. No. No, first up. Yeah, yeah.

Trust you got on the first one. That was great. All right. I'll fire us the names. now, Jess. I would like to thank from Portland in Oregon. It's Travis Adams. I'm just refreshing. You are refreshing, Jess. Hamlet jackpot. What about Hamlet is dead, comma, jackpot? That's fantastic.

Beautiful bit of Shakespeare there. I love this. From Provo in Utah, give me two. It's a few names here. Lauren, Joe. And Griffin Gibb. Ah. The other three Gives. Rush hour conquest. Rush hour conquest. Rush hour, yeah.

Rush hour. I was a rush hour conquest of the damned. Oh, yeah. There it is. Fantastic. Sorry that Dave damned you, Lauren John Griffin. And then there's like a picture of like traffic on the album cover like gridlock. But then if you look closely, they're all skeletons.

Whoa. And their band name, of course, is the C-Bs. Siblings, Gibb. The siblings' kid. Good on your Lauren, Joe and Griffin. And finally, for me, I'd like to thank from, unless you want me to keep going, just because you've got the names there.

From Lincoln in Great Britain, it's Hardy in brackets the cat. And then the surname is Matt Oosuski. Matazuski. Hardy, the cat, Matazuski. Sorry, I had to sound it out there. African Prince. Oh.

African Prince. in heaven that's in brackets African king African prince in heaven we become a king African prince in heaven

African king in hell in hell yeah yeah yeah it's like a like a double LP you flip it over that's the

yeah oh my gosh one's all about bone it is honestly it's gross yeah by the other side not even a mention of it

not one which is nice actually it's refreshing it's refreshing to the I'll keep going here, Jesse, you got the name there. From Austin in Texas, let's thank. Stay weird.

Trent Napa. Tonto tango. Tonto tango with death. Oh, that's great. A little tango with death. Yes. Like a rose in the mouth. Of a skeleton.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Tuxedo. Yeah. Rose in the mouth, but very much dead. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool.

That's actually badass. Can I go that of tattooed? Yeah, please. Full back tap? Yeah, full back. I've got a great one coming. All right, I'd like to thank from Nars in County, Kildare in Ireland. It's Jean Ojean Temple.

Galactic Bullet. Whoa. Galactic Bullet. If that's too full on, it could be Galactic Pepper Corn. I like Galactic Bullet through the afterlife. Oh, yes. It's taking on a journey. A Bullets journey.

Thank you, Jean Temple. And finally from all of us, we would like to thank from Kensington here in Victoria, bringing it home. Big shout out and thank you to Myra de Smet. Mara the Smet in French. Chocolate chip Cincinnati. Chocolate chip Cincinnati down the river of piss. Piss. Down the river of piss.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It takes us right for the afterlife. That's a slang term for the afterlife in some cultures. Of course. River of Piss. River of Piss.

I've just got to cross over the River of Piss. I'm sorry, Dave. Do you think, like that's obviously in hell. That's where the ferryman takes you over the river of Piss. And don't pay the ferryman. Never. As our mate, Chris DeBerg. Once famously said.

And when you're in hell, you can wear red. You can be a lady in red. You can do whatever you like. That's right. And he also, of course, had long flowing hair from his eyebrows. The best. the best eyebrows in the biz oh fantastic

thank you so much to mara jean jean jean trent hardy Lauren joe Griffin Travis Amanda Will and Claire and the last thing we need to do is welcome some people into the triptitch club Dave what is this about

this is our Hall of Fame our clubhouse for people that have been supporting us on the shoutout level or above for three consecutive levels so a couple of years back they got their shout out already but to say thank you for

holding true and supporting the show for three consecutive years we put them into our Hall of Fame, which is a Theatre of the Mind clubhouse where basically once you're in, you can never leave. You're a lifetime member. And why would you want to leave? Because we've got a bar in there.

We've got snacks. We've got food. We've got bands. We've got chill out sections. We've got indoor fuzzball. Outdoor fuzzball as well. We've got everything. Indoor outdoor food.

Yeah. It's got a retractable roof. All weather foosball. There's lots of fun things to do. Jess usually prepares, I should say, a cocktail or some snacks sometimes both. Yeah. And I'm not 100. I'm sure what it's going to be this time, only because I'm going to be just doing it fresh on the day.

I'm not really planning anything because I'm actually going to be channeling the spirit of Julia Child. So I'm guessing it would be like a French influence. Yeah. But I'm really not sure. It's really, I'm just going to like hold a whisk in a bowl and let Julia's hands take over. Oh my God. And quite honestly, thank God. Because if you've like whisked something for ages and your whole arm goes dead.

I've got to say no. Sorry. I'll feel this one. That's a no from me. So, yeah, not really sure just yet, but I'm thinking it'll be pretty bloody good. Yeah, and hopefully if she's thinking about it, she'll utilize a bit of rosemary, I think. I would think so, yeah. In a cocktail, peach and rosemary?

Oh, my God, that sounds fantastic. And Dave, you normally book a band for the after party. Oh, yes, I normally do. And I have been in contact with the afterlife. Oh, my God. And we have, how? I've just got a gift. I haven't told you before because I thought you laughed me in you.

Dave, you're not a medium, you're a small. That's good stuff. Hitting stage, we've got Chopin. What? Featuring de bussy. Oh, my God. We've got a de bussy headliner. Which, of course, in French means.

So, if I... The busy. Oh, yeah, no, I... This is how normally works. I'm sitting on the door. I've got the clipboard. I'm about to read the names. Mm-hmm.

We got, what do we got? Seven lucky names here. That's right. Seven people. and you be your cheered on by the people that are already inside the club and at the same time Jess is on stage hyping me up

because I am your hype man. That's right. And yeah, Jess is then hyping you up. And I'm hype lady and he is hype man. Hype lady in red. Are you wearing words? Yes.

All right, well, let me begin from Pickerington in God's Country O'H High in the United States, it's Stefan Armand Trout. Look, I've got to tell you, I went fishing. I went fishing for some cool people, and I've caught a big one. I've caught Stefan Armine Trout. Yeah, we got it, mate. Woo!

From Birkhamstead in Great Britain's crumbly biscuit. Well, I felt like a real treat tonight. And I had a biscuit that was too hard, and I thought, this is terrible. And I was about to give up in my life. My life. And I looked over and I saw, actually, here's crumbly biscuit. My favourite type of biscuit. Woo! I like them chewy, but welcome, crumbly.

From Amsterdam in the Netherlands, it's Jessica Classen. She's all class. Yes. And come on in. Woo! From Malton in New Jersey, it's Carl Firth. More like Style Firth. Have you seen what Carl's wearing?

He's snazzy. Oh my God. Kyle in Red. No. From Auckland, New Zealand, it's Evan Lansdown. More like Evan Touchdown. Hands down my favorite, Evan, from someone help me out with this one. Piccy.

Poughkeepsie in New York, it's William Jago. Jago, you are my favo. Yeah. And finally from Glasgow in Scotland, it's Gareth Brysland. You better Glasgow in. Welcome to Bryceland. More like Spiceland. Make it.

Make yourselves at home. Gareth, William, Evan, Cole, Jessica, Cumbly, and Stefan. Get yourself a spot on the foos table. There's a shortening for foosball table. Yeah. That's what I say.

Yep. Is there anything else we need to tell people just before we finish up? That if they want to suggest a topic, they can. There's a link in the show notes. You can also check out our website, which is do go onpod.com. You can find info about live shows we have coming up and look at other episodes and look at pictures of us and go, wow.

And if you're really interested in pictures, you can head over to find us that do go on pod across all socials. And the most important thing to remember is that we love you. Oh, that's from both of us. Yes. It's a real life. That's not just from Jess. I said we.

I know. And then you said both of us. I know. So it's not from tag. He doesn't have any love to give. Well, me and Mozart also love you. He just told me to tell you. Oh, my God.

Thank you, Mozart. Hey, we'll be back next week with another episode as we edged towards 400. Jesus Christ. You got time for edging still. I've got 22 hours. Hey, we'll be back next week.

Until then, thank you so much for listening and goodbye. Later. Bye. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world

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