Do Go On - 399 - The DB Cooper Copycat Hijacking

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

On the 7th of April, 1972, United Airlines Flight 855, was en route to Los Angeles. 20 minutes after making a stopover in Denver, a passenger is noticed holding a hand grenade. From there, things get hectic! Is this a DB Cooper copycat? Or even DB Cooper up to his old tricks again? Tune in to hear this wild story!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 03:56 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodLive show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/Check out our merch: https://do-go-on-podcast.creator-spring.com/ Check out our AACTA nominated web series: http://bit.ly/DGOWebSeries​ Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:deathinthewestpod.com S2https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/richard-floyd-mccoy-jrhttps://www.nytimes.com/1972/04/08/archives/hijacker-gets-500000-bails-out-of-jet-over-utah-hijacker-gets.htmlhttps://fearoflanding.com/history/the-odd-story-of-richard-floyd-mccoy-jr/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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write the future. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnke and as always I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Toot toot! Hey Jess, all aboard. All aboard, yeah. How good is it to be alive? Love to be here in the pod studio here at the Stupid Old Studios. Love you saying that as you put the hood over your head.

Yeah, it's a little chilly here. A little bit chilly, but... Winter starts today, doesn't it? At the time of recording. At the time of recording, happy winter. Happy winter to you too. It's so nice to be here in the Stupid Old Studios, I've got to tell you that. A lovely spot.

A lovely spot. This is the third Stupid Old Studios we've recorded in. And it gets bigger and better every single time. Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that I wish I was never born. I was wondering how you were going to get it in there. It was a little too positive. Appreciate you bringing us back down to earth. And while we're here, Jess, should you take the time to tell the good people at home how

this show actually works? I should and I will. Well, if this is your first time joining us, hello. One of the three of us goes away. Research is a topic usually suggested to us by our wonderful listeners. They find out all about it. They bring all that information back to the other two who listen politely, who never go on dog shit riffs. Never.

And who never find the funny in tragedy. Never. And we always get onto the topic with a question. Always. It is Matt's turn. It is Matt's turn this week. Yes, it is. I was letting Dave jump in again.

He was a hype man, but he just didn't. Turn this week. Sorry. He's a bit delayed. Matt, do you have a question for us? I do. It's a very self-referential question here. Love it. Matt Stewart. Hands on buzzers. Dave Warnke. Do go on. What was episode

22 of Do Go On about? I reckon I'll have a stab at this. Okay. Is that Super Murat Niazov? It is not Super Murat Niazov and his hijinks or whatever it's called. I want to go back and listen to that episode. That was very funny. Good fun. And let me just say welcome to plane, but that's not the right one.

Okay, Jess, would you like to have a go? So, it's your episode, Matt, to be clear. It was your topic at the time. No, it was one of Dave's topics. Oh, okay. Were you trying to do some maths there to figure out? No, I just thought 22, I reckon Niazov's around that time. Okay.

Okay, Jess, over to you. I have no idea. I don't remember last week's. One of our most famous ones. Okay. A plane is involved. A plane is involved. A plane.

It's maybe my favourite ever episode. Dave's a report on it. Okay. A mysterious man jumped from his plane. DB Cooper. It is DB Cooper. Oh, yeah. Was that episode 22?

22. You only peaked early. I was going to say it peaked so young. Because what's your favourite episode, Dave? Because mine's episode 10. That's his episode 20. And we're like, this is, we're at 400 next week. Look, I said maybe my favourite.

It's up there. Oh, it's up there. It's the whole way through. But can I say my favourite episode, personally, is episode 399. Oh, you kiss ass. Great choice. There's no point. No, I'm just putting the pressure on Matt to make this a really good one.

Yeah, make this really good. I think it's a very interesting story. How much do you remember of the DB Cooper story? I did, actually. Yes, one of the ones that's really, I think, stuck in my mind a lot because it was so outrageous. Yeah, great. Well, if any listeners haven't heard it or maybe haven't heard it recently,

I reckon go back and listen to it first because this story sort of comes off the back of it. What happened to the man, Da Bomb Cooper? The dreamboat himself? The dreamboat Cooper. A lot of great nicknames. To Bradley Cooper. We didn't use that at the time.

I don't think Bradley Cooper was around then. He wasn't born yet. It's my favourite. It was episode 22, Dave. My favourite seven-year-old, Bradley Cooper. We didn't know what potential he had at that time. Super briefly, though, DB Cooper is the mysterious man who hijacked a Northwest Airlines 727

to Seattle on the 24th of November, 1971. He collected 200 grand ransom after threatening to blow up the plane before parachuting out into the sky, never to be seen again. Or was he? Oh, my goodness. To Bradley Cooper. People. He's much older than you think.

So, this story I'm going to tell you happens about four and a half months later. Whoa. On the 7th of April, 1972, United Airlines Flight 855, a Boeing 727, same as DB Cooper's, was en route from Newark, New Jersey to Los Angeles, California. That's la-la land. Oh. Oh. I understand. Via a stopover in Denver, Colorado

Which I think is the home of Blucifer That wild horse statue Absolutely 91 people were aboard 85 passengers and a crew of 6 At 5.18pm Approximately 20 minutes after taking off from Denver The passenger in seat 20D

Was noticed holding a hand grenade. How long had he been holding it for? Imagine pulling it out. He'd pulled it out in New York in New Jersey, taken off, they'd landed, no one had noticed. And he's like, come on. Come on. They're going to notice any second. On the next leg for sure. He's going through security. He's putting it in the, like, you know, like, it's geophones, laptops, aerosols. He's putting it in the little tub know they like it's gear phones laptops aerosols he's putting it in the little tub it's going through nothing he's like explosive so i have to take them out of my bag and that yes please in the bucket thank you so much yeah next to your laptop

how many mils of explosive you got a belt on empty your pockets okay go through stay with your bags please and then he gets on the plane he's all right i haven't noticed it i'll call the steward over terrible service then come over until 20 minutes in. It's amazing to think back to how little security there was on flights back then. You could just get on a plane. Only one grenade. Okay. Welcome. What are you going to do if that one explodes? Yeah. You got a backup grenade?

You'll be all out, mate. He was described as swarthy, mustachioed, between 20 and 25 years of age, wearing glasses, about 5 feet 10 inches tall and weighing 160 to 170 pounds. I never understand that, where they go, I can guess like probably about this tall, but how are you guessing somebody's weight? Yeah, I had no idea about it. Did they pick him up? I'd barely be able to guess that they were wearing glasses, you know, let alone's weight. Yeah, I had no idea about it. I mean- Did they pick him up? I'd barely be able to guess that they were wearing glasses, you know,

let alone their weight. What were they wearing? You know, like, how do you remember? Yeah. Totally. I'll tell you what I remember, the hand grenade. Yes. I was focused on the hand grenade.

And he was sitting down. I'm not sure how tall he was. Could be one of those things where, like, he looks kind of short sitting down, but he's got long legs and a short body. I don't know. It's sort of like when people- when you see kids. I can't tell how old kids are. Yeah.

No idea. It's a toddler. And I'm like, are you eight? I don't know. I think there's three ages. Kids around my age and really old. Yeah. Which I know is about the same as my age, but-

Yeah. So, there's two. Yeah. For you. There's three for us.. So, there's two. Yeah, for you. There's three for us. And really old. Yeah, yeah. I don't know how people can be precise with any of that sort of stuff. I also think most people are around my height.

Yeah. Unless someone's really tall or really short. So, he was wearing a dark suit, black leather gloves and a wig. Although I've had reports of him wearing much funkier clothes, like a really loud shirt and loud coloured shoes and stuff. He's wearing roller skates. Rolling up and down the aisle. He's got glow sticks all over him. He's having a great time.

He'd already been observed acting strangely after being one of the first aboard. He wasn't the first aboard. There was already a prisoner and the prisoner's guard was, I think, first on. The prisoner had escaped and was being escorted back to prison in California. But that prisoner and others noticed that this guy-

Imagine being the escaped prisoner and being like, look at that weirdo. That guy seems sus to me. I don't trust this guy. Well, I think that's odd. Look at that weirdo. That guy seems sus to me. I don't trust this guy. Well, I think that's true. Oh, please don't say no to us. Please don't say no to us. Like legs and hands handcuffed together.

Oh, please don't, please don't, please don't. In that kind of thing that Steve Buscemi is loaded into the garland green. Oh, no, there's three Great, just my luck Oh, and a baby as well Fucking perfect Yeah, they put the baby between The weird baby

The weird baby between the weird man and the grim Don't get me wrong, I love kids But that's a weird baby It's an eight year old I can't tell how old kids are Yeah, so love kids, but that's a weird baby. It's an eight-year-old. I can't tell how old kids are. Yeah, so they'd been noticed acting a bit weird. At one point, an airport worker entered the plane after all the passengers had boarded, trying to locate the owner of an envelope that was left in the waiting room,

or, you know, in the airport. It turned out it belonged to the man in seat 20D. Oh, my God. Get your shit together, mate. You freak. After claiming it, he locked himself in the man in seat 20D. Oh, my God. Get your shit together, mate. You freak. After claiming it, he locked himself in the toilet for quite a while, like an unusually long amount of time. Who's paying attention to that?

I know. Unless you're waiting outside the toilet really needing to piss. How long before you knock? For me, never. Oh, never. Yeah, yeah. I'd shit myself in the aisle. It would be ages, and I'd only be knocking because I'm like, I think they're dead.

Yeah, I'm concerned. Yeah. Half an hour. People did notice him go in and he was in there so long that a crew member, maybe even one of the pilots, had to knock on the door and say, hey, we need to take off. You've got to get out. Oh, they haven't taken off.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. The pilot. Please. Can you just vacate the lavatory, sir? We need to get to Denver. We need to depart. They wouldn't say take off.

They'd say depart. Yeah, absolutely. I reckon. We're expecting a heavy crosswind. We need to beat that. They were possibly worried that he was jacking it in there. He was in there so long. Only the it he was jacking was the plane.

What? And they were right. Hijacking it. Yes. Oh, no. That's what you call jacking it. Mile high. Mile high jacking it.

So, like, when they notice the grenade, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you jacking it? Are you jacking it? The it being the plane. Bro. Whoa. Stop jacking it. Bro, are you jacking it right in fronting us? Are you jacking it? The it being the plant. Bro. Whoa. Stop jacking it. Bro, are you jacking it right in front of us?

Can you not jack it, please? Come on. It's not called a jack. Ip. The classic Brady Bunch movie line where Greg Brady's in the car and someone comes up to him and goes, Hey, this is a car, Jack. And he goes, Hey, I know this is a car. But my name's Jack.

It's Greg. That's good stuff. That's funny stuff. Well played, Greg. Just like DB Cooper, the passenger was flying under a fake name. His was James Johnson. Okay. Jimmy J.

But I'm going to refer to him as Johnson anyway. An off-duty pilot. So Johnson was jacking it, just to me. Johnson was jacking it, yeah. Fantastic. Just got to confirm. Who was jacking it? Johnson. anyway. An off-duty pilot- So, Johnson was jacking it, just to be- Johnson was jacking it, yeah. Okay, fantastic. Just got to confirm. Who was jacking it? Johnson.

Johnson. Johnson was being jacked. No, no, he was doing the jacking. Okay, great. No one was jacking Johnson? No. Certainly not Jack Johnson? No.

Okay. An off-duty pilot known to be on board as a passenger was asked to discreetly suss out the situation while the crew discussed what they should do. So someone's noticed the hand grenade. Stewardesses have found this out. They're talking about what to do. They know there's an off-duty pilot on there, so they go, hey, can you go just suss this guy out?

Just quietly suss it out. Just quietly just figure out what's going on. Is this hand grenade going to be a problem? So what does he walk down and then be like sorry can i just look out the window i want to see the view yeah yeah looking at the grenade yeah it's about an undercover what i was a pilot off duty not undercover but it was it was just a pilot who was traveling yeah you thought it was an undercover customer like a mystery shopper no i was thinking because undercover i just i went like

a cop or something but then i was like no it's a pilot yeah and i know they have authority in the sky but what do you want the part an undercover pilot to do it off duty pilot anyway i think they just know that he they can trust him yeah if they're gonna ask someone he's someone in plain clothes that could maybe more subtly suss out the scenario. Yeah. Like you said, find out what will be a problem. Is this grenade big enough to blow a hole in the side of the plane? So they're discussing what they should do.

The decision they came to was that they would head to a nearby airport at Grand Junction in Colorado. As to not cause panic, the pilot announced over the PA that they were experiencing a minor technical issue and they were going to head to the airport for a quick repair. I don't know how that would sound, Dave. Nothing to worry about, dear. Certainly no customer with a hand grenade and 20D.

Oh, I've said too much there. Like I said, we just need to refill some refreshments. We forgot to load the ice creams on in Newark, so we're just going to get those on pronto. Captain Lockdoors. Captain Lockdoors. At that point, the doors have been wide open. Is it flowing? Engine start, please.

We've got to turn on the engine. Engine start, please. We are gliding. And then the copilot's like, sir, this is not a voice-activated plane. She's going to push the button. Recline seat. So, can I ask you about Jimmy J, Mr Johnson? He's got the grenade, but has he said anything yet?

They've just noticed he's holding it. He said nothing. Imagine sitting next to him. Yeah. Again, I wouldn't say anything. I don't think I would either. I don't want to make a scene. Like, I'd never knock on the toilet door.

I'd never say, hey, what's that? I would just sit there and go, okay. Probably pull out the magazine, pretend to look through, but just while I'm quiet, like, again, shitting myself. Just start writing a note. Hey, everyone at home. Yeah. Love you all.

That's going to get blown up, too. I don't want to be rude. Just in case. Yeah. Just in case this doesn't get blown up. Yeah. The guy next to me, I reckon about 5'10". I'd be paying for the onboard Wi-Fi.

Oh, yeah. Send a few texts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Updating a few tweets. Hey, guys, sitting next to a guy with a hand grenade. Ask me anything. Would I be the arsehole if I said something about this guy? Hi, 32-year-old female next to male, 20 to 25.

My question is, would I be an asshole if I said something about this? I just don't feel fully comfy with him having a grenade on this flight. But maybe- Nothing against grenades. But maybe that's my problem. I should work through this. Yeah. But maybe that's my problem.

I should work through this. Yeah. So, the plan was to go to this smaller nearby airport and have law enforcement meet them there. When the off-duty pilot approached seat 20D, Johnson pulled out a gun. Okay. And he handed over the envelope that had been returned to him. It was labelled hijack instructions.

And that had been returned to him. It was labelled hijack instructions. And that had been returned to him. Excuse me. Excuse me. Someone left this envelope with hijack instructions on it. Is this anyone's? Oh, yes, that's mine. Is this anyone's? Oh, yes, that's mine.

They returned it to him. But do you reckon, because you know how he went, he got that back and then went to the toilet for ages? Do you think he was just looking in the mirror going, idiot. Stupid. Stupid, leave behind the instructions. That is so erroneous. Has anybody left an envelope?

Oh, I did, but what does it say? Hijacking instructions. Oh, no, that's not mine. No, that's mine. Oh, God, I've lost my envelope. You're so lucky to get yours back. Never going to believe it. The guy who I just returned the hijacking instructions to has locked himself in the toilet for 20 minutes. Should we be concerned? Yeah, concerned that we're going to be late. We need to believe it. The guy who I just returned the hijacking instructions to has locked himself in the toilet for 20 minutes.

Should we be concerned? Yeah, concerned that we're going to be late. We need to take off. We'll get the pilots, get him out, and still take off. Security was so, so wild back then. Well, it's all about customer service. Customer's always right. That's right.

If he wants to hijack it, he wants to hijack it. That's what the customer wants to do and we have to facilitate that for him to make it a pleasant experience. So, he told the off-duty pilot, give this envelope to the girl and have her take it to the captain. This happened and then the off-duty pilot returned to his seat. Job done. Totally. I'm off the clock. Technically, I'm not being paid right now.

Seat recline. And I think that's good. I think you have to have work-life balance, you know? He'd be- How shattered would you be? God, what are the odds? This is my day off. Do you think pilots have to fly economy?

Surely not. Yeah. I don't think they might. I don't know. We had a family friend who was a Qantas pilot and, like, the whole- His kids all, you know, did their gap years and stuff much cheaper than a lot of their other friends. Free flights. Nice.

Very nice. You imagine they'd at least get bumped up if there was a spare seat. Surely, yeah. Can I sit in the cockpit? Yeah, I mean- Yeah, I mean, please. Sure, Gary, if you- It mean, please. Show Gary if you. It's your flight.

I would prefer you did, yeah. Fucking hell, Gary. Oh, my God, let's go. How does he fly a plane? He's an idiot. There's a great article written by Sylvia Wrigley, who's a pilot and aviation writer, has written a few books about flying,

has a particular interest in D.B. Cooper, and her website Fear of Landing talks about this incident. Incredible website name. Bit of fun. So this is Sylvia Rigley writing, Johnson instructed

the other passengers in row 19 and 20 to move to first class in the front of the aircraft, which they were more than happy to do. That is awesome. Do you reckon he said, you've been upgraded? Yeah. Like some sort of badass. Yeah. I hope so. You'd kick yourself if you didn't. Hey, can you come back? I've just thought of what I should have said. I saw something really funny. You've been upgraded. Yeah, get back there, whatever. I don't know if you remember in the DB Cooper one, he had a crew member sitting next to him,

and that crew member got a good look at him and was one of the ones responsible for the famous sketch of him. Was that Florence Flo? Oh, my God, if it is, that's a great memory. It was, it was Florence, yeah. Holy shit. And again, I don't remember what we did last week, but I remember it was Florence.

So, Johnson did a similar thing, only he tweaked it a bit, had them sit in front of him. So, they didn't- they weren't looking at him constantly and wouldn't be able to get that great sketch done. Gotcha. So, yeah, he's certainly learnt some lessons from the DB Cooper hijacking. Either first hand or not, I'm not saying. Okay, okay. Back to Wrigley. Either first hand or not, I'm not saying Okay, okay

Back to Wrigley, according to one account The first class cabin crew member spoke to a doctor on board To ask if he had a medical bag with him As there was a man on board with a grenade The doctor reputedly said that yes he did But it wouldn't be much help if a hand grenade blew up In the plane full of people Will you be able to tape these people back together?

How good a doctor are you? How much string you got in there? You got a lot of stitching to do. Do you have any strepsils? You think about, so talking about that off-duty pilot who's like, oh, how lucky am I to be on this flight? But apparently the odds weren't that outrageous to board a plane that got hijacked back then. It was the golden age for skyjackings.

According to Robert Holden, between 1968 and 1972, there were 326 skyjacking attempts, meaning more than one a week on average. Wow. And security was at a different level and all that sort of stuff and that's all changed in a lot of ways because of this. The word skyjack was actually coined around that time in the 60s and is thought to have originated in headlines in newspapers such as the New York Mirror.

Great term, skyjacking. Skyjacking. You pat yourself on the back if you're the first one to come up with that. This is why I quite like American English. They have a bit of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Not like these bloody stiff shirts up in the freaking mother country.

You know what I mean? There's no fear of landing.co.uk. Let me tell you that. Yeah. Interestingly, the phrase, diff up a lip, which is, you know, you think of as an English thing, that was coined in America. Really? Fun fact.

Did you learn that from Bill Bryson? Yes, I did. Hats off to the captain. I hate Bill Bryson. The captain of this flight was Jerry D. Hearn. He opened the envelope that had been passed to him from Johnson via a stewardess. According

to the FBI, inside were two type pages of highly detailed directions. Also Also a hand grenade pin and a bullet. Basically going, I'm legit here. Alright. I'm holding this hand grenade but the pin's out so you try and tackle me or anything and I let go.

Oh shit. We explode. And the bullet obviously to show, look these are real live bullets. To show that the gun no longer has a bullet. So if required I will need you to come back give me the bullet. I just wanted to show you that it is a real bullet. Now To show that the gun no longer has a bullet. So, if required, I will need you to come back, give me the bullet. I just wanted to show you that it is a real bullet. Now I'll need that back, please. The instructions required the pilot to land at San Francisco International Airport

and park at runway 19 left. There, he was to follow certain procedures, which designated the number of persons allowed near the plane at one time and the distance from the aircraft that all vehicles other than those containing fuel would be kept. These are also very similar to D.B. Cooper's instructions. In addition, Johnson demanded $500,000 in cash for parachutes and the return of all written or typed directions given during the course of the flight. He's like, I don't want to leave any evidence with you. Every note I give you, you return it.

The four parachutes is also the same as Cooper. The 500 grand, he's gone double and a half. Okay. On what Cooper went for. Is it a public holiday or something? Must have been. Yeah. Double time and a half.

I think it actually was a public holiday weekend. Oh, my God. Double time and a half. I'm not working for free up here. He knows what he's worth. I'm not doing my normal hourly rates. The guy who tried to escape prison is on board. Is the guard with him some sort of officer of the law?

Yes, he is unarmed. Oh, God. Wow. Obviously, you don't let- Anyone can bring a gun on, but not law enforcement agents. Come on, Dave. Don't be silly. That would be ridiculous.

Now I say that loud, I see how silly that sounds. So, based on this new information and these demands, the crew decided to abandon their plan of landing in Colorado. An announcement was made over the PA that the plans had changed as the Grand Junction Airport was too small for them to do what they were intending to go there for. So, they would head to San Francisco instead. So, they're still playing it cool. Even though some people on the plane have definitely seen a man with a hand grenade.

And pull a gun on a guy walking past. Yeah. So, people at the back of the plane where he's sitting around his area would be like, why are you lying to us? But there must be a few people still that they're just like- Right, because Denver to San Francisco is quite a long way. Yeah. It's not like the next city over.

Yeah, right. So, you'd hear that and you'd go, oh, okay. I guess we're going to San Francisco, right? But you probably wouldn't assume- But maybe you would because it's the golden age of skyjacking. Yeah. Apparently, one of the big destinations for skyjackers back then was Cuba. So, this is pretty close compared to Cuba, I suppose.

Yeah. Or is it about the same? I have no idea. No idea. They are flying further away from Cuba now, sadly, for the skyjacker. Maybe it's just first stop, you know. Refuel. Refuel.

Head to Cuba. On to Cuba. Gotcha. In the 60s and 70s, it sounds like the standard way of dealing with hijackers was to give them whatever they asked for. So, this is what they plan to do. Like dealing with toddlers. You give in once, they'll probably never ask again. Exactly right.

They'll go, thank you for giving me that thing that I wanted. Thank you for honouring my needs and wants. You treated me with respect. I'll treat you with respect. Yeah, that's right. What can we do for you today? Thank you for honouring my needs and wants. You treated me with respect. I'll treat you with respect. Yeah, that's right. What can we do for you today? How about we go get a little cheeky flat wine?

I know you love those. I'll play quietly in the corner. How about that? How about we, let's go shopping and you can try stuff on and I'll give you an honest opinion. Why don't you have something nice? Bit of you time. I'll be quiet. I'll fall asleep in the car.

Yeah. I think the airlines especially were like, our number one concern is making sure the plane and the passengers and all of that stays intact. Yeah, I totally get that. But the combination of allowing anyone to bring anything they like onto a plane and also giving terrorists whatever they want, it's not a great one. Not a good combo. And apparently, on the other hand, the FBI, they were seen as being a bit more loose. They'd come out all guns blazing sort of thing.

They're like, let's just shoot it down. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, probably somewhere in the middle is the ideal. On the ground at San Francisco, United Airlines started organising the cash and parachutes as per the hijacker's demands. Once they landed in San Francisco, they taxied to a remote runway bordering San Francisco Bay. The 95 passengers on board sat for hours while the hijacker's demands were negotiated. Right. And they're still pretending that it's all cool. I think it's becoming clear now.

All of Johnson's demands were met. The plane was filled with fuel to the brim. It had about six hours flying time. They got rid of all the other passengers' luggage. He had his ticket. They brought his luggage up to him. He brought it up to him. The prisoner that he noticed before, he used him as sort of the gopher

So he got him to go and bring the money onto the plane And those sort of things And the parachutes and what not According to the FBI After seeing the completion of his written notes Some three hours or three and a half hours After the plane had parked Johnson released the passengers

And one of the stewardesses He then ordered the rest of the crew into the cockpit and took a position in the rear of the aircraft. So, it's just him now with the five remaining crew members. Right. And he made them go into the cockpit. Yeah. Everyone up in the cockpit. I got the rest.

Yeah. Cool. But then, like, how can they bring you snacks? Yeah. That's right. Didn't he use in the galley, like, sort of they bring you snacks? Yeah, that's right. Didn't he use the galley, like, sort of microwaving his own little meals, little pastas? Yeah, he's got the pick of the board.

A packet of chippies. Peanuts, oh, please. A couple of packets of peanuts, thank you very much. According to the Times, these remaining crew members' names were Captain Hearn, the First Officer K.R. Bradley, the second officer K.W. Owen, and three stewardesses D.M. Surdham, D.K. Sugimoto, and M.N.

Yubi. It did sound like D.N. Surdham. Was that the name? D.M. Surdham. Who does it? Bit of fun? Bit of fun. Dave, you find joy in all sorts of places. De-insert them. Okay.

Understood. Roger that. After that, I need to hear the last two names just to give them their time. DK Sugimoto and MN Yubi. Great names as well. One of the Raleigh's passengers later said that the hijacker had planned the incident so carefully and had the crewmen so well organised in taking care of some of its aspects that it sometimes appeared that there were more than one.

United Airlines also believed for a time that two or three hijackers were involved. Right, because it was just so efficient. Yes. Another reason was Johnson went into the toilet and he came out looking quite different. Oh, did he put the wig and stuff on in there? Yes. He got changed. He put makeup on, sort of like to change the complexion of his skin. So, some people, you know, saw one guy go in and another come out.

They just thought they were two different guys. Wow. I'm just wondering what the advantage of showing what you really look like and then changing rather than just rocking up at the airport back in the day when they don't really give a shit about your passports or anything or photo ID for these internal flights. Do the change in the airport. In the airport. So, no one ever sees your- Unless it's a third disguise, you know what I mean?

At the airport, he's rocking out looking like- That would be a real sort of left turn. You go, I look like this, which is a disguise. I go in there, put on a second disguise. I come out in a Snoopy costume. Put the money in the bag. What do you think? That's pretty good.

I think that was more clever than this. With the big head and everything? Yeah, everything. I want a few 500 grand. How much? 500 grand. In the bag. All right, Snoopy.

Do whatever you want, baby. Johnson's at the back of the plane. He's kicking his feet up. He's got all this room now. And he starts using the intercom to talk to the cockpit. And he also uses that to say when he wants the stewardess to come grab another note. Okay. Zoe goes, hey, can you send her down?

Just tell us the instruction on the phone now. No, I've got a note for you. Come down. It's very important. I've printed the notes, okay? Come on. Don't make me waste the notes. So, according to the FBI, he gave another set of flight instructions telling the pilot to take off towards the east, climb to 16,000 feet, and fly precisely at 200 miles per hour on a course that would overpass several specific Utah communities.

Sort of had him zigzagging, but it was all very specific. According to the New York Times, they flew over the snowy Sierra Nevada and the entire state. It went on over Fairfield and then headed towards Salt Lake City, home of the Utah Jazz. Stay jazzy. It's the jazziest state. That's why they call them that. Remember, it's the beehive state.

It's the best one. Beehive state, so good. Yeah. Where are the Utah beehives? The Utah buzz? Oh, my God. That's so much better than jazz. Yeah, the Utah buzz.

They've still got jazz from a hangover from when they were moved from another city. Oh, right. So, it's like a very un-jazz-like state. It's probably the least jazzy state. Wow. They were trying to bring a bitjazz-like state. It's probably the least jazzy state. Wow. They were trying to bring a bit of jazz to the state. It didn't work. But it's only-

Yeah, it feels funny. They're like, this is the important part that we're buying. When we buy this franchise, we're really buying the name jazz. We're bringing jazz to guitar. We really don't care about basketball. Do you guys do jazz? Because that's what we thought we were buying. Yeah, that's right.

There's been a little miscommunication. No take backsies. The FBI continues. The messages now hand printed between Johnson and Pilot were sent with increasing frequency, always using the stewardess as a courier. The cabin was ordered to be depressurized and the gunman warned that if any pursuit planes were spotted, he would detonate a hidden explosive device after he had jumped and before the plane had landed, obviously.

So, he's like, if anyone follows us, I've got an extra thing on here. Be a fun position to be in. Like, I mean, ideally you'd have all these things, but you could just say anything. Also, I'm tracking you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't follow me and I can read your minds. So, don't even think about it, okay?

But as far as I know, you know, that could be true. So, they're treating everything like it's real. When the stewardess realized that Johnson had forgotten to request the return of one of his notes, she quietly hid it. Okay. One of the handwritten ones. Whoa. Bal it. No. Okay. One of the handwritten ones. Whoa. Baldy. Yeah.

According to Wrigley, all 727 cockpit doors had been equipped with fisheye peepholes in reaction to the DB Cooper hijacking. So, basically, so they're like, we can see out. Makes sense. And you still see that to this day, right? They often have like a little- Little peephole. Little peephole.

I thought the pilots are just pervs. Yeah. I want, like, peepholes on doors to be bigger. You can't see shit. Is that a person or a shadow? I think what you want is a window. Yes. I'd like a window in my door.

Yes, I want people to see in. I want them to see me looking at them and then going, Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. We're not on. We're not on. Turn off the lights. in. I want them to see me looking at them and then going, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh lot of um design instagrams and stuff like that with these big beautiful glass front doors and i'm like yes that looks lovely let's so much light into that entry hallway beautiful but i don't want people to see in me either absolutely absolutely not yeah i think that's fair why would you i want to be able to hide well people that um their house is right on the street massive windows yeah no curtains yeah yeah just like like know, we're watching reality TV.

Yeah. You can see everything. I'm walking past your bedroom. Have some shame. Have a bit of shame, would you? Sorry, Matt, please continue. No, well, think about this. If you are worried about these windows and people being able to see in,

do what Johnson did and simply place a piece of tape over the peephole. Oh, that's good. That's clever. I don't know if it's clear tape. That doesn't help that much at all peephole. Oh, that's good. That's clever. I don't know if it's clear tape. That doesn't help that much at all, does it? Oh, my God. I hope he wasn't using clear tape. It might make it a little cloudier if it's like a sellotape type thing.

But it also might magnify it somehow. Yeah, but if it's that super clear tape, that's doing fuck all, to be honest. Put a bit of Vaseline over there. Yeah. Make it quite romantic in there. A little bit of Vaso. Unfortunately for Johnson, this didn't quite fully block the view because the second officer found that he could see into the cabin from the gap under the cockpit door, which I'm

guessing must have been pretty big because under it, he watched as Johnson put on a jumpsuit, a helmet, and a parachute. Wow. How many costume changes has he bought? It's incredible. It's like a bloody Britney Spears concert. New outfit. I'm here for it.

Britney Spears, what a topical reference too. Well, it's funny because in my mind I went Madonna. I'm like, no, update it. Britney. Yeah, I'm down with the youth. Nailed it. Doja Cat. Oh, yeah, okay, good one.

Does Doja do costume changes? Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift. Okay. Good one. Does Doja do costume change? Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift. Yeah. Taylor Swift. Okay. I'll fix that in the edit. Yeah.

He then shut off the cabin lights and sent one last note via the crew member asking for wind, ground, and air speeds of the aircraft, altimeter settings and local weather conditions. The pilot would have been loving this. Yeah, every time he's like, you don't have to announce it. I told you what to do. It's okay. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, it's just me.

I know, but normally I don't get to say it and people find it boring, but I love to talk about this stuff. I love getting on there. I love saying what the weather is, you know. Let me try and help you figure it out. I love to talk about this stuff. I love getting on there. I love saying what the weather is, you know. Let me try and help you figure it out. I love saying a balmy 17. And if Melbourne is home, welcome home. And if it's a holiday destination, enjoy your stay.

Yeah, that's right. It feels like he's trying to be secretive and he doesn't want them to see him, but then he's also inviting one member out each time. So that steward could just go, oh, he's in a different outfit now and remember what he looks like, right? I guess maybe he's thinking it's just easier for him to control. Like, they can't overpower him. They can't surprise him. Oh, okay.

Sure. Maybe. Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure. No, that does make sense. According to the Times, the California Highway Patrol told its officers throughout Northern California to be on the alert for flares and parachutes. Two supersonic F-104 jets were ordered from the Hamilton Air Force Base to shadow the jetliner, but they said,

please stay out of sight because he's saying that if he sees anyone following us, we will be blown up. Yeah, wow. So they still had someone following, but at a supposedly safe distance. Like the pilot was like holding a magazine in front of his face yeah that's right looks not sus eye holes cut out when a signal light started flashing indicating that the rear exit door had been opened united radioed to report that the hijacker had bailed out over nevada right because that was it's the same plane as db cooper

right so that was the key feature of that plane was that there were, like, rear stairs that lowered out the back. Exactly. They'd lower out the back and they could do that while- Yes, at a certain height or something, yeah. Because the- without the pressure- Yeah, yeah. Like, sucking you out. Without sucking you out.

Or off. Yeah. Just in case you were worried about that. Oh, no, the pressure sucked me off So that didn't happen Nearly 400 episodes Somehow Somehow

It's in the news recently There was an airplane That had someone open the emergency door in the air. Oh, I saw that, yeah. Is there a few hundred metres from landing? Yeah, that's right. Apparently that was the only reason it was able to happen is because they already started the landing procedures.

But thankfully that also meant everyone was strapped to their seats, right? Yeah. So no one got sucked out or off. Yeah. One of those pros, one of of those cons and then it must be almost impossible to get the door closed right did they get the door closed or was it just open while they landed it was open until they landed because don't those ones just fall out those emergency doors am i thinking of those right i think you pop them open and they go there was

something like i don't know if it was to do like if it happened straight away but i think when the plane landed maybe i i saw a description of the plane like the escape slide had popped out or something like that yeah a bit of fun that would be a wild ride why did that happen was there any explanation the guy did it was causing trouble i guess i did he apparently did it on purpose like he opened the guard and then it wasn't like an accident. Imagine sitting in that like exit road and the door is just open. You're like- There's footage of it. I haven't seen it.

Yeah, mobile phone footage. Yeah. So, people obviously weren't shitting themselves too much to not, you know, take a few videos. Maybe a couple of people had to go to hospital for like minor, you know, breathing stuff because it was hard to breathe whilst the wind was sucking off your face. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. You're trying to suck it in and it's all been sucked out.

But, yeah, that's a story that you would tell for the rest of your life if you were on that flight, for sure. I got sucked off by a plane. Is that the story you mean? Yeah. You speak in Daily Mail headlines. So, yeah, the back door, the rear door's been open. They've got a light in the cockpit.

So, they're like, all right, he's jumped. We'll let him know. It looks like he's bailed out over Nevada. This sent FBI agents scrambling to get to the approximate drop zone near Tanopa in Nevada, but it turned out to be incorrect. While the door had been opened, he had not yet jumped. And they realised that when he called to send another note. Like, oh, sorry.

Oh, sorry. Oh, you're still here. He's, like, trying to get the courage up going, you can do it. All right, just one big jump. Here we go. Here we go. All right, next one. Here we go.

Definitely this time. He may or may not have realised this, but the parachutes that were given to him had tracking devices inserted by the FBI. He threw them out, though, and it seems like he was doing this on purpose to put them off the scent. Right. So, he threw them out at different locations

and the FBI had scrambled to go to these locations as well. Whoa. One of the downsides to them is they didn't have very good battery life, so the tracking devices, apparently, so they- It lasted six minutes. Yeah. At last we saw it was in the air, so I'm guessing it's still up there somewhere. Lights on the skies, boys.

He's still on the plane. The notes did finally stop after they passed the final Utah town on his prescribed course. He had finally jumped. Oh, wow. About five hours after the hijacking began, the crew was finally free and able to head to the nearby Salt Lake City International Airport, taking a bit of jazz.

They deserve it. They had a stressful day. Yeah. What a day. The FBI's investigation was in full swing, with agents heading to Salt Lake City to search the plane and helicopters and Jeeps headed into the Utah area where he was thought to have jumped.

Obviously, they were all across that side of America at the time, but now they had a better idea of where he jumped. Interviews with crew and passengers were already being conducted. According to the FBI, one stewardess recalled the subject was flashily dressed. Other passengers and crew remembered he went into the lav for an extended period, as we talked about before.

All we remember about him is he was in there doing something. I think he's a bit backed up, if I can be honest. We called him Mr. Stinky. I offered him some Metamucil. I said, mate, you need a bit of fibre. You need this more than me. He's a bit backed up, if I can be honest. We called him Mr Stinky. I offered him some Metamucil. I said, mate, you need a bit of fibre. You need this more than me. He's either backed up or jacked off. We're not sure.

We're not sure, but it's definitely one of them. What else could it be? So, the general consensus was that the individual had donned a wig and moustache while in there, but then others thought maybe it was a second person, you know. This is where they were kind of a bit confused at first. So, the FBI hearing maybe it was a second person. You know, this is where they were kind of a bit confused at first. So, the FBI hearing maybe it was a couple of people, maybe it was one, not quite sure.

And then also confusing all this, the notes received by the crew generally use terminology like we this or we that, giving the impression that there were more than one person. According to this podcast, Death in the West, season two of Death in the West is all about this. It's like a 10-part series talking about this story and the DB Cooper story. It's a lot of fun. It's like an independent podcast out of Montana. I've really enjoyed listening to it.

And I love that they've got- their sponsor is a local cafe in their town. I'm like, I want to go to this cafe. You want to go? Does it sound great? It sounds so good. The dishes, the drinks, I'm like, I want to go to this cafe. You want to go? Does it sound great? It sounds so good. The dishes, the drinks, I'm in. Yeah. But I just, I love how on a podcast, which is being listened to all around the world, a cafe is the sponsor. I think that's sick. It's so good.

I really hope to be able to get there sometime. Anyway, I'd recommend listening to that podcast if you want to- Find out about a great cafe. Find out about a great cafe. But here, even in more details about this story. Yeah, so that podcast, Death in the West, I think it's worth listening to. I'll mention it a few times coming up. Sounds awesome.

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's in that style, you know, the NPR sort of ones where it's like, today we're going to talk about a man. They're fun. Unlike this, which is- Dog shit. Dog shit. They talk, like, in a beautiful rhythm.

And we go- A plane sucked me off! It's just like a bunch of cats all going- There's two podcast styles and that's ours. Everyone else is in the other. And we love it. We love it. So, this is on purpose.

We invented this style. Yeah. Copyright. A parachute was later found by a 14-year-old boy on the side of a road while his family had pulled over to replace a flat tire. Oh, wow. This is the following day. The dad ended up, after their trip, he took it into this local sheriff.

And they're like, oh, yeah, that's definitely- Right. You wouldn't want to find a parachute on its own. You'd be looking up going, is there someone else around here that this belonged to? Good call, yeah. Yes. And then the person splats you from above. The search of the plane was fruitful, finding a clear fingerprint on an in-flight magazine

in the spot next to his seat. He went through the magazine. I mean, everyone gets bored. He was back there for ages. He filled his luggage with costume changes. He didn't have space for a book. Yes, he had no entertainment whatsoever. Didn't bring his Nintendo Switch.

He was also wearing gloves, so he's obviously like, I'm going to take off the gloves to be able to flick the pages. That's right. How am I going to find out the Sudoku answers unless I flick to the back? Can't get any grip with these freaking gloves. Those bad gloves. They also found the handwritten note that the stewardess had hidden. So, they had a handwriting sample and a fingerprint, they thought.

Sounds like they'd probably try and return the note to him, though. Did you lose this? Is this yours? Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, they just flew- They went back over where he dropped from and just let it out there. I still can't believe they handed the letter saying hi, Jake and Strachan.

Yeah, there's some- Like, Wrigley said she couldn't figure it out, definitely. She's like, surely there was another envelope above it or something that was unmarked. Surely they didn't hand- Or he's written that on after the fact. Yeah, surely. But she's like, it's not clear. Maybe they didn't.

Oh, my God. They just didn't bother reading it. Yeah. I mean, it's not mine. I don't want to- That would be rude. That would be very rude. That's a felony.

Not from us. Nobody else's male felony. Felony us. Nobody on the people's mail. Felony. Felony. Felony is such a great word. What does it mean? Do we have felonies? I don't think we have felonies.

Is that an American thing? It's a real shame. No felonies over here. Let's bring them in. Bring in the felonies. I think we should take on some of the best bits of the American justice system. You know, lots of people in jail. Yes.

Felonies. Yes. Lots of suing people. Oh, yeah. We don't sue enough here. Yeah. Let's get more litigious. So, I can say that word, which I love to say.

Yeah, it's great to say. According to the FBI, at approximately 2 a.m., FBI agents, Provo City Police, and the Utah County Sheriff's posse, which I love, lined up some 20 or 30 yards apart and combed the surrounding fields. The night dragged on, but no new leads were developed. Can I ask? I forgot to ask before.

When he jumped, was it still daylight? No, nighttime. It was nighttime. Scary jump. Same as Debbie Cupid, though. Night jump. The following day, they did get a big break, though. As the people of Utah awoke to news of the hijacking,

the FBI started receiving some tips, a few phone calls, including one that really caught their attention. According to Wrigley, the caller said his acquaintance had told him that he had a foolproof plan for hijacking a plane they remembered a conversation they'd held after the db cooper hijacking and knew that his friend had the skills to be able to pull this off right i mean it's foolproof until you start telling everyone about especially people with loose lips what a great friend too yeah if one of you fucking dogs i will not dog you called me no but like if they come to you and they're really laying it on thick, I would understand.

But this is, like, I'm actively going to the police to dog. Yeah, that's right. Just calling them up. That's dog. Mm. His friend's name? Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. Richard Floyd McCoy Jr.

That's amazing. Floyd McCoy. Floyd McCoy Jr. Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. Yeah. I love it and hate it. Wow, That's amazing. Floyd McCoy. Floyd McCoy Jr. Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. Yeah. I love it and hate it. Wow, that's rare. I get both.

I'm really curious to see what you think of this guy. Okay. A very interesting character. So, this is, oh, okay. This is the- This is the guy who is being fingered. Not the fingerer, but the fingery. Oh, right. So, the mate's but the fingery. Oh, right.

So, the mate's dubbed in McCoy. Yeah, I thought for a second, I thought the friend's name was McCoy, but this is the guy he's accusing. This is Floyd McCoy. I'll tell you about the friend. J'accuse, McCoy. In a little bit. This is the accused.

Okay, great. So, who's this man? Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. His parents were Richard Floyd McCoy Sr. Yep, could have figured that one out. And his mum was Myrtle McCoy. And that's the only reason I bring them up, because his mum name was Myrtle McCoy.

That's so good. Not enough Myrtles. Not enough Myrtles. Bring it back. Bring back Myrtle. It's funny to hear about this story. So, Myrtle and Richard Sr., grandparents at the time, Richard Jr.'s got a couple of kids, including Richard III, Dick III.

Of course. Really? And so for ages I was picturing Myrtle as this, you know, nana, 80-year-old nana or whatever. She's like 45. Yeah. I'm like, what? They were having kids young back then.

They were. Which means you're having grandkids young. Having grandkids young. Having grandkids, you know what I mean? Do you ever meet any great your great-grandparents? I think mine were all gone by the time I was around. Maybe a photo of me with maybe grandma's mum or something. Yeah, I can't remember.

I don't think so. Maybe that's my sister, to be honest. I've just seen photos. Yeah. You can't tell the difference between your great-grandmother and your sister? That is a slap in the face. I've met your sister many times. She is noticeably a young woman.

She has some real Myrtle vibes. She could be a Myrtle. Really? No, I say that. That's a compliment. I say that, yeah, positively. It's a lovely name. Yeah.

Don't get me wrong. It's a lovely name. Honestly, it's a sick name. Yeah, Myrtle, I reckon. I'd buy that. Yeah. Anyway, but she's not, sadly. Myrtle Perkins.

That's real good, actually. Myrtle Perkins is so good. Myrtle Warnake. I'd buy that. Yeah. Anyway. But she's not, sadly. Myrtle Perkins. That's real good, actually. Myrtle Perkins is so good. Myrtle Warnocky, not that good. Not that good. Myrtle Stewart, not that good. Myrtle Stewart's not bad. Not bad. It's right in the middle.

Myrtle Perkins. It's the ert and irk, I think. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Great. Well, there you go. Food for thought.

Put it on the list of names to change your own to. Yeah, absolutely. According to Wrigley, Richard McCoy was a devout Mormon who lived in Provo, Utah since 1962. He was born in 42, so he's been there since he was 20. Oh, yeah. And, you know, this is now 72, so he's 29 at the time. When he enrolled at Brigham Young University is when he moved to Provo.

And also they thought he was 20 to 25 and he's 29. Yeah. That's a compliment. That's a good moisturiser. Absolutely. That, my friends, is the benefit of SPF. I mean, that's if it is him, of course. Oh.

Okay. The fingered. He dropped out to join the army where he served two years in Vietnam as a demolition expert and pilot. He was wounded in action for which he was awarded the Purple Heart in 1964 and was sent home to recuperate. He returned to Brigham Young University where he met his future wife, Karen. What a downgrade from Myrtle.

Your mum's Myrtle. Your wife's Karen. But she didn't choose her name. But you can choose your wife. Yeah, that's right. And he's's Karen. But she didn't choose her name. But you can choose your wife. Yeah, that's right. And you've chosen Karen. Richard and Karen. But interesting to note that he was a pilot.

Yes. Let me know a few things about planes. I'm zoned out. Okay, pilot. He was a demolition expert and also a pilot. Like, are you demolishing shit with planes? That sounds like kind of crazy.-esque. Or demolishing planes. They had way too many planes back then.

Oh, I'd just crash a plane into it. Whatever. That should do it. Wrigley goes on. He then agreed to serve another term in the army on the condition that he could go to Vietnam. This time he was awarded an Army Commendation Medal for Heroism. In 1968 he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for a rescue he flew as a combat helicopter pilot.

Oh, wow. McCoy distinguished himself by exceptionally valorous actions during the early morning hours of the 8th of November 1967, while serving as a helicopter pilot with the Air Cavalry Troop. Upon hearing that the compound was in the process of being overrun by a large Fiat Kong force, Warrant Officer McCoy volunteered to fly his aircraft to the scene in support of the friendly forces. In spite of poor visibility due to thick ground fog and intermittent cloud layers and a complete lack of tactical maps for the area. Flying by instrumentation and radio alone,

McCoy located the compound and came under automatic weapons and small arms fire. With the position of the compound marked by a flare and the firefight marked by tracer rounds, Warrant Officer McCoy began a series of firing passes, launching rockets directly at the Viet Cong positions until all his ammunition was expended. Due to his courageous fight and highly accurate fire, the enemy was completely routed. When he returned to Utah, he considered a third tour of Vietnam, but his wife refused. He volunteered as a warrant officer in the Utah National Guard and took up skydiving as a hobby. He taught Mormon Sunday school and returned to Brigham Young University again,

this time to study law enforcement. He told friends that he wished to become an FBI or CIA agent. So, yeah, he had some relevant skills, but he was like a full-on war hero. Yeah. Yes. And wanting to go into some sort of law enforcement and then potentially choosing to commit a big old crime. Mm.

He zigged. He was a skydiver. Yeah, maybe it was all just a ploy. Throw him off the scent. It couldn't be him. Wow. Sometimes, you know, you learn. Like, I think they would know how to get away with crimes better than anyone.

People in law enforcement, you'd assume. Yeah, you know, learn from other people's mistakes. Yeah. So, he had the necessary skills to pull off the heist, but his community thought it was very unlikely. According to Time magazine, family, friends, and neighbours were incredulous, for McCoy hardly seemed the hijacker type. A quiet family man, father of two and devout Mormon, McCoy had taught Sunday school. All he ever talked about was sin, recalled one of his students. He's a fine man, insisted his landlord.

A classmate at Brigham Young University, McCoy was a senior called him an organised crime freak who wanted to make his dent on the world by busting crime syndicates. His mother was mystified, old Myrtle. He's been very devoted to his church. She was like, this is just not him. He's not a hijacker. She said he's not a murderer.

And I imagine someone said it was a murderer. Should we be looking in his backyard nobody died myrtle what the fuck you're making it worse he's just there like mom i'll tell you what i'd never do murder someone my boy he's not a drug importer he doesn't have a tax oh my god i've said too much he certainly never fixed the lottery. The FBI interviewed McCoy and he denied any involvement or knowledge of the hijacking. He said he was out with his wife for dinner at the time.

Karen. He said, I was out with Karen. And he was not detained. But they continued to investigate McCoy. The FBI lab was working on two key pieces of evidence. Firstly, the handwriting expert was comparing the note left on the plane with McCoy's writing on military service records. And secondly, fingerprint specialists were seeing if they could match the print found on the Inflite magazine

with one taken from McCoy during his military service. Oh, dear. Both turned out to be matches. Oh, no. What? Someone framed him. Oh, my gosh. That's unbelievable.

This guy is dedicated to the church. He wants to work in law enforcement and he's a war hero. Come on. All he talks about is sin. This can't be him. This can't be him. How dare you frame this man? I'm as disgusted as you.

I don't think you could. Nobody could be more disgusted. Dad, you do look disgusted. I am green with disgust and envy and envy i want to hijack a play let me have a go the fbi also found eyewitnesses after a motorist reported picking up a hitchhiker wearing a jumpsuit at a roadside hamburger stand outside of provo the fbi took a photo there and got a positive ID from an employee who said she'd sold him a milkshake the night of the hijacking around 11.30pm.

A celebratory milkshake. Yeah. This guy, yeah, yeah, I sold him a milkshake. Remember it. And he paid in cash. He had like this suitcase full of money. Yeah, she said, she actually said, I remember him because he said, oh, that's a good, that's a good price for a milkshake.

Dude, you just made half a million dollars. Yeah. Stop being tight. That's how people stay wealthy. Exactly. That's why I'll never be wealthy. No, he was saying it was a good price. I think, like, to him, he's like, oh, all of a sudden milkshakes are cheap.

Yeah. This is a tiny fraction of the money I have now. I've said too much. Oh, no. Yeah, the guy who gave him the lift was quick to call up and dob him in as well. I hope he flung him some petrol money. You're carrying half a mil and you don't offer like 10 bucks. Come on, mate.

You're a dog. He gave him five bucks. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Back then. Back then, that's heaps, actually. That's quite generous. As soon as I said 10, I was like, I've gone crazy.

That's far too much. He was a teen and apparently yeah couldn't couldn't wait to dob him a lot of dobbers in this town yeah yes but he and he was so open about talking about it this guy i would feel like i even if you felt like you had to because it was the right thing to do i feel like i would then not be telling anyone that was me you go just don't put my name out there but he's in articles yeah right with his name he's like yeah it was wild. You go, just don't put my name out there. But he's in articles. Yeah, right. With his name. He's like, yeah, it was wild, yeah. I just took him for a ride and he told me to take him to his home and yeah.

Yeah, this guy who's got a grenade and a gun prepared to kill people, obviously, yeah, I'm happy to be in the papers saying that he did this, absolutely. And did he drop him at his home? I believe so, yes. Oh, my God. I met his wife, Karen. She was fantastic.

Yeah, went in for a cuppa. But to be fair, if I had dropped somebody home, I'd never be able to find that house again. No. So. Or, like, recognise them. Nah. In the dark.

What's this? Photographic memories. Eyes on the road, please. Yeah, come on. Why are you steering your passengers so much? Apparently, he also fingered him in court. Really? And, yeah.

Gosh. McCoy was- Was that in public? Apparently, while he was fingering, McCoy was just looking at him like, how dare you? Stop fingering me, please. Please. Come on.

I gave you five bucks. You can only wonder if he paid people better. And, by the way, this is one of those anonymous lifts, okay? How much for silence? 10? 20 bucks for a silent ride? 20 and you never finger me. Okay?

That's the deal. That's the deal, okay? We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, on disney plus 18 plus subscription required tees and c's apply according to wrigley on the 10th three days after the hijacking the fbi arrested mccoy at his home on a charge of air piracy that sounds so badass yeah air pirate they also had a search warrant for the house Where they found $499,970

Wrapped in bank bands in a cardboard box They also took two electric typewriters Which had imprints of the pre-written notes A parachute and a harness and a pistol All as possible evidence Possible They had just Purely coincidental I mean everything else they've already got is pretty good and a pistol all as possible evidence. Possible. They had just- Purely coincidental.

I mean, everything else they've already got is pretty good. Now they've got all the physical evidence as well. Let's talk about the guy who dobbed him in, his mate. Because without this- Yeah, would they have ever known? It feels like it would have been a lot harder without this initial tip. But they- I mean mean a lot of other people id'd him like even the prisoner they went to that the prisoner's new jail and said and said hey

is this the guy while i'm here is this the guy yeah that's the weirdo yeah that's the guy he was so weird that freak anywhere so the friend who dubbed him in was ro Van Eperin of the Utah State Highway Patrol. Apparently quite good friends with McCoy. Speaking to the Suffolk News Herald in May of 1972, Van Eperin said, I feel like hell about it. Sick. But I also feel like someday somebody's going to blow the hell out of 95 people. If I didn't do something about it, I would have felt bad if one of these hijackings went wrong.

This is all from the Virginia Chronicle. Van Eeperen and McCoy were friends. They flew helicopters in the National Guard together. They were recreational skydivers on weekends together. Van Eeperen and his wife had visited the McCoys at home three weeks before the hijacking. This is when McCoy outlined to Van Eeperen how he'd go about pirating a plane using his own parachute. Great dinner party combo.

Oh, my God. Just shut up. Don't say anything. This is the big one. You say, if he didn't dob him in, but if he just kept his mouth shut, no one would have suspected him. No. And I would say he would have gotten away with it if he just didn't talk about it so

much. But this is what Van Eprin said. We were professional pilots and skydivers. It's a conversation piece. We talked about a lot of things concerned with law enforcement. I used to call him up in the afternoon just to rap. We talked about flying, our work, and skydiving. You lay down a beat.

Yo, what's up? We talked about- type of traffic. Yeah, well, you know how my rapping starts. Hello, everybody. I'm Baby Jeff. That's one of your famous raps. Hello, tiny baby. Hello, tiny

baby. There we go. Van Eperon goes on. We talked about hijacking, particularly after a guy in Denver parachuted and broke his leg. So, we're talking about a lot. It makes sense. It is sort of their interest. But if you're actually going to do it. Yeah, that's right.

It's a funny thing to say, oh, this is what I'd do if I wanted to get away with a crime like that. But you don't then do it a few weeks later. Yeah. Unless, as he's saying it, he goes, this is actually a really good plan. Yeah, yeah. I will do it a few weeks later yeah unless as he's saying and he goes this is actually a really good yeah yeah i will do it and i trust this guy yeah he's one of my very good friends he's here at my dinner table there's no way he's fingering me this guy no come on that's not something a friend would do friends don't finger no he continues on when the first reports of the hijacking came in, I didn't think it was Richard.

I called him that night because I thought he might be interested in it. But, of course, Richard didn't answer the phone. He was busy hijacking. Oh. No, he was out for dinner with Karen. Oh, sorry. Yes. His sister-in-law, Denise Burns, answered instead.

And so, this is Karen's younger sister. And she sounds like a real character. I like how Burns talks about it all in this conversation. It sounds like she probably dropped Richard in it a bit when Van Eperin called. She possibly didn't know how serious it was at all. But this is how she recounted it about a month or so later. Van Eperin called me. Richard had talked to me about it, but I had no idea he'd do it.

Richard's a very good person. He shouldn't be where he is. I've talked too much already. That's why I'm leaving. I'm going back home to Canton. The US attorney says it's okay for me to leave, you see. I've pleaded the fifth. That's Denise.

That's Denise. That's Denise. Denise is panicking. Denise is flustered. I've pleaded the fifth. I've got to go. Denise, are you pleading the fifth? I'm playing the fifth. Anyway, I'm going to go play the fifth. Denise, are you playing the fifth?

I've said too much. The fifth is not talking right, Denise. I've said too much. I mean, yeah, you told me about it. I didn't get it serious. I'm going home. So, that means he's also told Denise. Yeah, he's been chatting around the home about things,

about the plan and stuff. Oh, my gosh. Does that mean that is Karen in on it too because she's given him the alibi of, yeah, my gosh. Does that mean that- Is Karen in on it too? Because she's giving him the alibi of, yeah, we were out to dinner. Does she know what was going to happen? Well. There is no Karen. Oh, my gosh. It's McCoy in a wig.

Karen. Karen's who came out of the toilet. That's a twist. That's a good twist. He doesn't have a wife and kids. He has schizophrenia. Those are all in his head. Yeah, he has costumes and wigs.

Wow. No. Yeah, we'll talk a bit about Karen soon. But this is Denise's time to shine. Yeah, Denise is gone. She's off. She's moving back to Canton. I played the fifth.

He put the other ones like, okay. All right. So, she's dropped him in a bit to Van Eeperen. He's going, oh, okay. Right. I just wanted to talk to him about this because it's amazing that someone's done his plan. I thought it would be funny to- Can you believe it?

And then he's not home and Denise is like, I've got to go. I'm panicking. Yeah. That's sus. Van Eeperen said if he hadn't pulled the 3 to 11 p.m. shift that night, he probably wouldn't have connected McCoy to it. After the reports came in, he had to stay up on duty to set up roadblocks and was up till about 6 a.m.

Certain clues, plus the conversation with Denise, where she dropped him in it, made him voice his suspicions to the FBI. He'd already talked to them by the time he and McCoy reported to the National Guard for flight duty the morning after the hijacking. Whoa. Really? He had already spoken to them. Yeah, so he called them while he was still on his shift.

He was on it really quick. And the next day he's like, hey, buddy, where were you last night? I certainly haven't called the FBI and told them that you did it. Yes. Whoa. Wow. So he's still recounting it this is this is still pretty fresh this is still in 72 talking to a journalist a month or so after i said to myself you've lost a friend but he wasn't vengeful when i saw him later he said what'd you think on me and i said i hope i didn't think on you i hope you didn't do it i'm not sorry I said anything. If they arrested McCoy on what I told him, it's pretty thin, but it goes beyond friendship.

So, he's basically like, I only thinked on you, but I don't know if he quite gets what he's saying there, right? Because you dubbed him in. Yeah. Either way, whether he did it or not, but he's like, I only dubbed you in if you did it. Yeah. I suppose he's saying there's only consequences for you if you did it.

Yeah. If you did it, you're innocent. Sorry about that. But he goes on to say how much he respects Richard. He says, I don't think you would ever hear a bad thing about Richard. He's one of the nicest fellows I've known. I've never seen Richard get really mad. I never heard him swear.

I've probably lost his friendship, he said somebody, before asking why. What would make cool, nice Richard McCoy go to the extreme of hijacking? And that's a great question. before asking why. What would make cool, nice Richard McCoy go to the extreme of hijacking? And that's a great question. Yeah, it doesn't seem in character from what we know so far. But I think Matt might have more information to share with us. That's the end of the report. Wow.

Wow, we can speculate if you want us to. So, trying to figure out what made this devout Mormon and decorated military vet and Sunday school teacher hijack a plane. Sounds like a big part of it might have been money problems. According to Wrigley, money was tight. He received $243 a month from the GI Bill, which is veterans benefits, which wasn't enough to support his wife and kids. The family were in serious financial problems and his marriage began to suffer under the stress of their situation.

Karen. His wife, Karen, whose salary was supporting the family, threatened him with divorce, according to Wrigley. Unless you hijack a plane. He's working as well, though, isn't he? He's getting benefits. He's volunteering. Yes.

For that plane thing. Sunday school or? Sunday school, I think, is volunteering. Yeah, yeah. And the other thing, the- Right, and he's gone back to study. Okay. Oh, like the National Guard thing or something.

Yeah, the National Guard, I think, is volunteering as well. Oh, okay. That's baffling, especially because they're flying helicopters and stuff. You'd think you should be paid for that. Yeah, you'd get paid properly. You shouldn't be a volunteer helicopter pilot. You should be paid for that skill set. Yeah, do we have any volunteers?

I'll give it a crack that's interesting yeah i mean if that if if what i'm saying is true but it doesn't yeah oh i mean i don't know i don't know why i'm defending i'm not in that marriage but it just sort of feels like he's not sitting around all day doing nothing and he's studying to do the law enforcement stuff you know there's a lot of conjecture about what was happening in their relationship as well. Like, who would know? Who would know other than them? Exactly. So, I think as much as I respect Wrigley for her piloting and journalism, she wasn't there.

She wasn't sharing that bed. Could have been a lot of reasons why, Karen. You know, it could have been ongoing conversations for 10 years and she's like, oh, come on, you know. I'm at my wits end. We don't know. I love Karen. I'll do anything to keep her.

Karen. So, he convinced Karen to give him 500 bucks in order to carry out the plan. He needed money for flights, guns and a disguise, a very good disguise. So, she's funding it. Oh, no, Karen. Karen.

Karen, Karen, Karen. Kaz, baby. But according to Wrigley, she later said that she didn't think he would actually do it. Then why did you give him 500 bucks? She's like, I'll let him have his fun. I'll let him go to the costume shop, run wild. And then I'll let him have his fun. I'll let him go to the costume shop, run wild. And then I'll divorce him. She also bought him a parachute and typed up his list of instructions for the pilots before driving him to Salt Lake International Airport.

Oh, my gosh. She's really helped him. Wives do too much. That's too much, Karen. Too much. She's taken the mental labour of this task that he's thrown at her. In fact, to be honest, I don't trust you to do this. I'll do it.

Yeah. And that's part of the problem, isn't it? Yeah. You're not going to do it properly. I'll have to do it myself. Yeah. Karen, you got to let go a little. It was a 50 mile drive to the airport and they argued the entire way.

She left him at the airport still not believing that he would actually go through with it. But of course he did. He flew to Denver buying his tickets with cash and using the alias James Johnson. He then booked himself onto flight 855. The fact it was a Boeing 727 was an important detail because this was the same aircraft type as the DB Cooper one. They had the same rear set of stairs built that were able to be lowered while in the air.

Cooper had used these to exit his flight and McCoy did the same. Though unlike Cooper, McCoy was able to lower the stairs himself without help from the crew. Oh, okay. Maybe it's because he is DB Cooper and he learnt the first time around and now he knows how. That's what some people say. Whoa.

Others say he just knew how to do it. That makes you think, though, doesn't it? It does make you think. It does make you think. It makes me think. He was obviously a bit nervy as he left his hijacking envelope in the airport. Luckily, of course, it was returned to him by the helpful staff there.

You're going to give that, Stuart, five stars. There's a bullet and a pin in there. I guess you'd have no idea what it is. Maybe it's jewellery or something. Unless it says hijacking instructions on it. Then you might have some sort of clue. And we know the story from you. He went into the toilet, spent way too long in there Jacking it and putting on some

Makeup and a wig So let's move up to when it was time to jump He struggled with the weight of the cash I think we know from DB Cooper He really struggled with this part They sabotaged him a bit by pulling the zips Off DB Cooper's bags And he had to improvise a bit And we the zips off DB Cooper's bags and he had to

improvise a bit. And we know that maybe he lost some of that money jumping. And this is two and a half times that amount, though, isn't it? It's even more. It's even more money, but he cleverly asked for bigger denominations, $100 bills, meaning it was the same weight. Do you know what I'd do? I would ask for just transfer me.

Here's my details. Here's my BSB and account number. Yeah, just bring one of those little bippers. Yeah would ask for just transfer me. Here's my details. Here's my BSB and account number. Yeah, just bring one of those little bippers. Yeah, bring a little bipper. Just a little one that they can tap. And then, like, there's no change to the weight. Yeah.

I'd hook it up to an offshore account and just get them to tap. I'd just give them my ANZ account. Yeah, transfer it. How traceable is that? Oh, I think they're pretty good. There's so many accounts. I can't find your one. My name is- Have you seen your account number? It's like seven digits long. So long. How are they going to is that? Oh, I think they're pretty good. There's so many accounts. I can't find your one. My name is- Have you seen your account number?

It's like seven digits long. So long. How are they going to find that? How are they going to find that? It'll take you ages. And I've got a super common name. Yeah. So-

That helps. Whatever. Metal Perkins. Metal Perkins. Metal Perkins is so good. If you ever have another dog, can you call it Metal Perkins? Yeah, big time. Because our current dog- It's got the wrong surname. That's right. So, the next it Myrtle Perkins? Yeah, big time. Because our current dog-

It's got the wrong surname. That's right. So, the next one has to have Perkins. Agreed. Myrtle. Oh, imagine. Imagine a little French bulldog named Myrtle. I can and I love it.

Holy shit, that'd be cute. I'm picturing it and the picture is good. I'm imagining her wearing a little tartan neckerchief. Oh. In a fancy little dog. As the people wearing tartan often say. Well, if you're Mary Queen of Scots. Yes.

Oui, oui. Oh, my God. So, he's, unlike Cooper, he's able to get all the money into a bag he brought, especially. So, there's a bunch of things. People say he did it, he wasn't as clean as D.B. Cooper, but there were a bunch of things he did better than db cooper he's able to lower the stairs himself he he figured out the money better he he chose uh hundred dollar bills rather than 20s or whatever db cooper used but hundreds are more

they're heavier than a 20 yes so you know it all works out it's pretty heavy so he was struggling with the weight but eventually he made it out, though he didn't nail his landing spot. So, his wife, Karen, wasn't there to pick him up as planned. Time magazine suggests that McCoy might have got away with it if he had not, in effect, used the hijack to hitchhike home. Basically, he's dropped himself quite close to home as well. So, people thinking about it are like, huh, just in our neighbourhood?

Oh, actually, I know a guy who talks about hijacking planes. You know what I mean? Like, if he did it somewhere else when he was away on a work trip or a holiday or something. But he basically landed at home. He was pretty close to home, you know. He's like, you're right above my house, 139 Erickson Street, right now. Yeah, perhaps Van Eeper and his mate wouldn't have been able to put two and two together if it hadn't happened so close to home. Yeah.

He certainly wouldn't have put two and two together if he hadn't fully outlined his plan to him in the lead up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that does seem like the big mistake. Interesting, yes. Anyway, McCoy's now landed in a paddock many, many kilometres from home and he's on foot. The weight of the cache was so heavy, he had to leave it behind. Oh.

He stashed it by the side of a road in a bit of a hidey hole, as well as the parachute. When he eventually came past the roadside burger joint, he happily bought that milkshake. He then found the driver who took him into town. That's probably where the $30 that was missing from the $500. He took $30 with him to get back to town. That's why he could only afford a milkshake.

And that's why he said, that is a good price. I can afford that. Yeah, thank God. Yeah, I'll have a milkshake. When he finally got home late at night, his sister-in-law, loose lips Denise. Denise. And she noticed his dirty boots. She's like, huh.

And this is probably something she maybe mentioned in the phone call if that happened later. Why was she there? She was staying at her sister's place. Later at around 3 a.m., he and Karen drove back to pick up the cash. It's a long day for him. It's a long day. Long, long day. I think he's been up for, you know, full 24 hours stressing out the whole time.

Yeah. They left the parachute behind, though. And I think this is the one the kid found later. Why did they do that? Yeah, I don't know. I guess they were like, it's one bit of evidence we don't have to get rid of, but you're leaving evidence somewhere. Yeah, on the side of a road.

I guess it's also, I don't know what the DNA stuff was like, but it wasn't really happening back then, was it? No, but still, they would know the parachute, and then they would know, oh, he landed in this area. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're just giving them a clue. But he'd given them so many already. Yeah.

Yeah, he's like, I've already basically admitted it. I'll just leave it. When they got the cash home, it didn't all fit in the hole in the backyard he'd prepared. So, a lot of it ended up in a cardboard box inside their wardrobe. Then exhausted, McCoy went to bed. Fair enough. Yeah.

I reckon he had a bit of a nap. That's enough for a big day. He didn't sleep that long, though. Only a few hours before he was up for his volunteer shift at the Utah Air National Guard with his mate. Amazingly, according to Wrigley, during the shift, he flew one of the helicopters involved in the search for himself. Whoa.

Not surprisingly, he didn't find him. Oh, I reckon he'd be over there. Like, flying away from the burger shop. Isn't that- I found that incredible. They get a good price milkshake down there. Was that nothing? Nothing. I've never been-

When he was taken into custody, rather than calling a lawyer, he called Karen, telling her to take care of everything. Karen, baby. Take care of everything. Yeah. He was winking. And she's like, I can't see you winking. He was like, well, how do you care of everything. Yeah, he was winking. And she's like, I can't see you winking. He's like, well, how do you know I'm winking then?

I'm guessing. I've known you a long time. You're my soulmate. So, basically, he's going. Karen wants a divorce from her soulmate? I don't think so, mate. I don't think so. Come on. So, he's basically going, please get rid of all the evidence.

Yeah. Because we've got a lot of it in our house. But she's sort of taking it as like a passive-aggressive thing. She's like, yes, I've already got dinner on. Yeah. Okay. And the washing and the kids. I already look after the kids, Richard.

When was the last time you lifted a fucking finger at the house, Richard? I've just hijacked a plane. I mean, nothing. He's yelling it out in there. Well, I'm sorry. If I'm working my ass off to steal 500 grand from the government for you. Because I love you, Cameron. So, he's like, please get rid of the evidence.

But it was broad daylight and she knew the house was under surveillance. Like, the FBI were out the front. They weren't being subtle about it. So, she's like, what do I do? Okay, here's what you do. Can I guess? You put a coconut on top. What's she got to hide?

Is there a parachute? No. She doesn't have a parachute. There is a spare parachute. Okay, great. You go to the parachute, put a coconut on top, smiley face on it. That's your son. Okay.

Now, you carry that out to the car. I'm taking my son to the park. Okay. You take- What is that? A big box of cash. Yes. Toys.

That's my son's box of toys. We play at the park with a box of toys. The typewriters that typed out the notes. That's my daughter. That's my daughter. Typewriters. That's my daughter, Qwerty. My son, Parachute Pete, and my daughter, Qwerty.

I think I might piss my pants. Are you still Karen? Karen, we're deeply in character here. That'll put them off the set. I don't know what everyone's saying. It's hard that Karen's got weak bladder. She's had two kids, Dave. Parachute Pete and Courtney. that Karen's got weak bladder. She's had two kids, Dave. A parachute-peating quitty.

It felt like pushing out a coconut, honestly. Okay, now I see how we've done 400 episodes. Okay, sorry, how did she actually do it, or did she do it? I mean, it was similar, but not quite as ingenious. It sounds like in the end, she's like, like, basically, she couldn't do anything. I'd set fire to it. Oh, yeah, that was- Set fire to the whole house.

Yeah. Oh, oh. You got $500,000 now. Yeah. She basically, it sounds like, she put all the most incriminating stuff into a box. On his side of the cup. And labelled it. Richard stuff.

Richard stuff. Keep out. Karen has never seen any of this before. And she just basically piled other junk on top of it. Oh, foolproof. So, when the FBI came on the Death in the West podcast, I think they had a clip of one of the guys who found it talking about it. He's like, yeah, I was just sorting through this jungle,

and I'm like, holy shit, this is everything I need. She was like- Hey, guys, come in here. They wouldn't be impolite and go through my stuff. Yeah. It's just what you can see immediately without touching anything. Oh, my God, I've never seen that box of $499,930 in my entire life. That's crazy.

If she's like all the mums I knew from my childhood, she probably said, excuse the mess. And the house would have been immaculate. Absolutely perfect, yeah. Oh, I'm so embarrassed. I didn't know people were coming. It's like, well, you invited us and there's not a speck of dust. So, on April 9th, a federal complaint was filed

charging McCoy with aircraft piracy and interfering with flight crew members. A federal grand jury in Salt Lake City indicted McCoy on April the 14th. Two months later, McCoy, found to have acted alone, was tried in the US District Court and found guilty despite his claim of innocence. So, that's the key. Karen was not involved. Yeah, found to be acting alone.

Acting alone. But also, all the evidence is, like, piled up in your cupboard and you're still pleading innocent. Yeah. Come on, dude. Multiple people have eyewitnessed you. Yeah. You've been fingered.

Yeah. Just plead guilty. Brother, take the deal. Yeah. Come on. Yeah, brother. He's been fingered by so many people. He's basically being fisted now. Yeah. Come on. Honestly, he's been fingered by so many people. It's basically being fisted now.

Yeah. Five fingerings. That's a fist. That's a fist. So, yeah, he could get the maximum penalty for these charges was death. What? Oh, brother, take the deal. So, I'm just trying to rap with him like his mate did.

No, totally. And I love that you're trying to get brother going. I think it really works. I think it's very cool from you. I support it. Yeah, it feels comfortable in your mouth. Honestly, though, if it's like, if you're a lawyer, I'm not a lawyer, but surely you'd be saying, you could be put to- You're certainly not one of those big city lawyers.

No, I'm not one of those big city lawyers. No. I'm not one of your fancy fucking lawyers. Your honor. If there's a chance you're going to be put to death, you're obviously going to be found guilty, dude. Ah, brother. Dude. Preach. Dude's good.

Yeah, you can say dude. Luckily for him, he was sentenced to just 45 years in prison. So, they went pretty hard. They didn't go all the way to death. It sounds like there was another case at another somewhere else in the country that meant the death penalty was a lot less likely and a different precedent had been set. Right, but 45 years, that is a long sentence. That's the rest of his life.

For a 29-year-old in 1972, that is a life sentence. Yeah. But if he was still alive, he'd be out now. So, just saying. Nine-year-old in 1972, that is a life sentence. Yeah. But if he was still alive, he'd be out now. So, whoa. Just saying. He appealed the decision to the US Supreme Court, which denied his petition on October the 9th, 1973.

So, yeah, it's basically a life sentence, but it wasn't the death penalty, which you'd be like, oh, that's a blessing, I guess. But he didn't see it that way. In an interview with the Journal News that year, he suggested he prefer the death penalty rather than spending his life in jail. Okay. He said, it at least should be my choice. If I'm getting life in prison, I should be able to opt in for death penalty,

which is wild. Interesting take. Oh, yeah. But it suggests that he would do pretty much anything to not spend his life in prison. And that sentiment would prove insightful, as it wasn't long before he tried to break out. This story is not done.

Oh, my God. That's right. Our war hero turned Mormon teacher turned plane hijacker was moving on to another chapter in his life. Prison breaker. Oh, my God. Is this some sort of alternative reality where he was also the other guy on the plane who had been arrested for breaking out of prison? Holy shit. It's a loop. Oh, oh my god the space-time continuum has collapsed in on itself brother

oh my god this is awesome so he's in a denver prison and his method was pretty opportunistic it's fair to say a fellow inmate was due for a trip to the courthouse and McCoy somehow convinced him to let him take his place. Let's switch. Can I be you? I'll be you for this one. Okay. And will you be me? Yeah, you just stay, I'm going to go. And I don't know how he convinced him, but he did. Obviously the guards didn't take a lot of notice of who was who because they said, who's Gregson? Hey, I'm Gregson. Alright, Gregson. Alright, Gregson with us. But he's also a master of disguise, as we know. That's true.

Yeah. Absolute master. Yeah, he's the Dana Carvey of his generation. 20 minutes in any toilet. He's a turtley turtle. I'm a turtle heading here in the toilet. Once collected, he told the guard, funnily enough, this is modus operandi, he was busting for the toilet. Yep. So, he went into the toilet. They're like, all right, no worries.

You know, he's whistling out the side. A little bit of a rustling in there. What's going on? He found a way to scrape through a small window and he legged it. Okay. But he did not get very far before he was tackled to the ground. He was then moved to a much tougher prison in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. Oh, my God.

This has backfired. Prison's awful. I can't stand it. Well, how about an even worse prison? Lewisburg is said to have had an awful culture of torture and violence with inmates. A prison? Jesus. A prison? Jesus. A prison with a bad culture?

A bad culture for a prison. Whoa. Yeah. Oh, my God. Apparently it was fucked. Inmates there during the 60s and 70s included a few big names such as Whitey Bulger, John Gotti and Jimmy Hoffa. Right.

Mob guys. Yeah. A lot of big mob guys. So, yeah, it feels like a- And why do we put all the blame on a toxic culture in a prison on the prisoners? Because it trickles down from the top. I don't blame them. That warden is not doing their job.

That crusty old warden. You know? Yeah. It needs to loosen up, you know? Have some fun. Paint some colour on the walls. Maybe spike the punch bowl Party down brother

I'm taking it off him You can have dude But brother's gotta go That's better Once there At his new prison In Lewisburg, it didn't take him long to start planning another escape.

This time he put a bit more thought into it. Rather than a leg in and out a window. Yeah. Not bad. He started working with two others for the scheme, Larry L Bagley, a 36-year-old from Iowa who was serving 20 years, and Melvin D Walker, 35, from Morleyold from Iowa who was serving 20 years, and Melvin D. Walker, 35, from Morley, Missouri, who was serving 55 years.

Wow. Later in the planning, quite late in the planning, they were joined by a third man, Joseph Havel, who was a six-year-old from Philadelphia who was serving 10 years. These three were all in there for bank robbing and theft type charges. I believe Walker had already broken out a few times before. They would meet regularly on Saturdays, ostensibly to hang out in the yard. Apparently, there was like a little cafeteria or something, and Karen would often visit, and she'd bring cash for him, and they'd

buy ice creams on Saturday mornings and go out into the exercise yard. Wow. I'm picturing just like a little convenience store or a milk bar. I like how you said terrible culture. Awesome. A nightmare of a place, this one. They're meeting for ice cream on Saturday morning before they even had breakfast. Oh, my God. You can't do that.

They're having Bubblo Bills. Oh, they're force feeding them ice cream. Karen, who wanted a divorce, is still bankrolling this guy. Yeah. She was like, I just need you to get a job. I can't run the house and be the breadwinner. It's too much for me. And he's like, I got it, toots.

So, he goes to prison forever and she's still got to come and bring him his ice cream money. But he's like, I don't even pay rent in here, guys. I'm saving us money, babe. We're saving a fortune over the next 45 years. So this part of the story is told in Death in the West, the podcast. And yeah, he said that they'd be meeting basically with a bag of ice creams sitting in the yard just to make the guards think, oh, this is just their routine. They sit out there with their bag and they eat ice creams on Saturday mornings.

But apparently they'd also, as well as eating the ice creams, they'd do exercise. They'd run laps. Oh, God. To try and get fit for the big escape. Whilst eating ice cream sandwich. That's a terrible idea. It just sounds like footy in the 80s, you know? I want to throw up just hearing that.

Cigarettes and meat pies at halftime. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, but that does not sound good. Another thing they were doing there. So, they're basically, in part, just trying to lull the guards into a false sense of security. This is what they do on Saturday mornings. This is their little routine.

They sit around eating ice cream. Slowly, like, introducing, like, you know, have an ice cream. One of them's got a grappling hook. It's just their routine. It's their routine. It's fine. It's whatever. Hey, that guy's having their ice cream

That guy's got his grappling hook That one has my gun That's fine That's fine They've done it the last ten Saturdays They're having a nice time And you know what? Like, it's tough being in prison

Give them a little bit of Give them a break Yeah, it's Saturday for God's sake Let's see where they go with it Yeah It's a bit like, you know It's a parenting style I'm reading up on. This is the guard.

You know, like letting your kids do dangerous things safely as they figure it out. That's how they learn. Carefully. They're doing it carefully. Off they go. They're not hurting anybody with a grappling hook. Leave them be. So, yes, shenanigans were afoot, basically.

While there, it's no coincidence they pick Saturday mornings as well. They also observe the weekly garbage collection routine. Happened each Saturday morning. It would happen like clockwork. So, they're just sussing it out. In other words, they're just eating ice creams and having fun, but they're really just focusing on what's happening with this garbage truck. Wow.

It's manned by one of the inmates as one of the drivers, and then there's a guard on the other side. In the meantime, McCoy stole dental paste from the prison's dental office, which I think he was working in. What did he steal, sorry? Dental paste, which I- Okay, gotcha. I don't fully know what that means,

but it sounds like it's some sort of a waxy substance. Like he got a block of it. And he worked with Walker to- Apparently, Walker's quite an artist. And he was able to make a very realistic mould of a gun, like down to the small details. Right. And then they used that mould to make a plaster of Paris replica pistol.

So, they made a fake gun. And they used that mould to make a plaster of Paris replica pistol. So they made a fake gun. They spent a lot of time then perfecting the paint colour to get it looking as realistic as possible. And they'd also accumulated a bunch of knives. They also had a bag of knives. They got their bag of ice cream, they got their bag of knives. They're happy boys. They give you no trouble on a Saturday morning.

Karen is still regularly visiting. She's bringing cash each time, $20, $30 at a time, whatever. Are you kidding me? Did she keep any? Was the loot all returned? Did she keep any of it? This deadbeat. Oh, so that's just now her money.

Yeah, this is just from her job. Karen. She, as well as bringing cash, she's also bringing information about different things they're asking about. Like, what does the outside of the front gate look like? What's the security like? Is there an extra barrier, these sort of things? Right on.

She's even taking photos and just bringing that information into them. Bringing a photo, sliding it across the table. There's a map of the prison. And one of the guards finds it and says, sorry, this says escape plot. Is anyone missing this oh that's mine yes that's mine thank you my wife for that's uh pictures of my children little escape plot little qwerty and don't forget parachute pete he's my favorite don't tell the others don't tell qwerty she's jealous uh then the big day day arrived August the 10th 1974

So a couple of years after his hijacking Oh he's a go getter He makes shit happen He really does He's always done something isn't he Using the fake gun and the knives The four men commandeered the jail's garbage truck Bagley was behind the wheel

And he was able to drive the truck with enough speed To smash through the main gate And escape to the outside world wow got through the yeah it's a federal penitentiary it's a medium security but it's still you know pretty secure and they just smashed their way out of there they were fired upon from above but veered onto a dirt road karen had told them about and were able to get away being shielded by these uh corn crops that had been fantastic according to a new york times report from the following day 16 miles from the maximum oh i just said it was medium security i

think it's medium security maybe it's maximum time because if jimmy hoffer and that are there i was just they seem pretty maximum it seems like it's medium security now but i mean this new york times report was from the from the time, so from the New York time. And it says, 16 miles from the maximum security prison, they abandoned the truck and commandeered a car containing a man and two women, whom they left on the roadside, bound but unharmed. And then they disappeared into the central Pennsylvania mountains. Apparently, according to Death in the West podcast, the man was quite an old fellow who they stole the car from. And while the others were rummaging around looking for more weapons,

McCoy was like, are you all right? Are you on medicine or anything? And he's like, yeah, I have heart medicine. So, he gave him his heart medicine before leaving. It was like, yeah, that's nice. He's a good man deep down. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Oh, yeah. Brother. You know what I mean, brother? Hey, I won't say it, but you can. I make this look good. The New York Times article also says, the state police, sheriffs, deputies and agents of the FBI, aided by dogs and helicopters,

searched the mountains within a 20-mile radius of the prison at Lewisburg. The state police said, we feel they are still in the area. There are a lot of hunters' cabins in there. It's a big game area. We'll find them. Wow, they're hunting them now. Yes. So, Havel, Bagley and Walker were all convicted bank robbers and it seemed

that they wanted to go back to their old ways. And McCoy's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I want to rob a plane. Okay? I'm a plane guy, okay? You ground robbers go nuts. Yeah. But I'd do it up in the sky. I look down on you boys. Scum. According to Death in the West, just three days after their escape, they robbed a bank near Cove City, North Carolina, getting away with 10 grand. This was the first in a series of heists. Wow.

So, McCoy can now add bank robber to his impressive CV. Okay. Wow. I suppose he's like, I'm never getting out of jail, am I? May as well. On their getaway from this bank heist, they were spotted by a police helicopter and started to be tracked they were cornered and apparently from the helicopter all four like so all four car doors open and they sort of scattered in different directions but it sounds like mccoy

start was the one to start just shooting at the plane okay it's interesting unfortunately for havel and bagley their time on the run was short and they were recaptured but walker and mccoy had a bit more luck and they eluded police at least for a while uh as historic utah.net writes speculation in the press was that mccoy had hidden in a swamp near his hometown where he'd spent time as a young man it seems they may have lived off money taken in further bank robberies, including one in Marysville, Tennessee. And before long, they found themselves on the FBI's 10 most wanted list. He wanted to work at the FBI.

Yeah. So, I guess, yeah. Would he be happy? He's sort of involved. Yeah, he's kind of- he's got something to do with the FBI. Yeah, this is a way to get, like, the big dogs, like, the director to directly notice you. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

You don't get that, like, when you're starting out as a baby agent. This is great networking. Isn't this like, you know, how hackers will hack a big company, just say, employ me, I'll stop this from happening. Yeah, I'm the best. Yeah. So, I think it's not a bad idea. Let's see how it turns out.

This report may end with McCoy heading the FBI. I mean, it's a great name to head the FBI. Yeah, yeah. Agent McCoy. Commander McCoy. Director McCoy. Director McCoy. President McCoy?

Is there a reason? That name really rung a bell when he said it. I was like, McCoy, like the president. Yeah, like the current president of America. Right? Is that right? Am I remembering that right? Yeah, they changed the thing and you could have, like, multiple.

It's not just two terms anymore. Yeah, they went 45 years in prison or 45 years as president. Yeah. And he went, I'll take the president. I'll take the president. Good call. So, the two remaining fugitives found their way to Virginia Beach in Virginia. They're just going all around America.

That's a long way away, isn't it? Yeah, that's right up in the northeast. I mean, they were from, they escaped Pennsylvania, so. Right, but didn't they get down to Tennessee for a bit? Oh, yeah, that's right. So, isn't it? Yeah, it's right up in the northeast. I mean, they were from- They escaped Pennsylvania, so- Right, but didn't they get down to Tennessee for a bit? Oh, yeah, that's right. So, they- Down south and then up northeast. Bloody hell.

A beautiful road trip. Getting some miles. And they now have a lot of cash. They've been robbing banks along the way, apparently. And they're living it up with their ill-gotten gains. Decking out the house they're renting with funky 70s artwork rugs and vases. They're just like, we got cash. Let's throw a little bit of it around.

Let's decorate. God and a death in the West, McCoy was even in contact with his family back home, giving his daughter a horse as a present. Hey, there you go, Qwerty. Gave her a horse. Gave her a horse. How about a hug? How about a hug? How about a dad?

Yeah, horse dad. I bought you a new dad. It's a horse. Do your homework. I love you. I want a horse dad. Nah, they stink. Dads.

Dads. Walker and McCoy had worked up a system just to, they were still being, I mean, they weren't being as vigilant as maybe they had been. They're starting to go out and buying stuff. They're throwing their money around a little bit more. They worked up a system trying to stay vigilant against anyone tracking them. Whenever they went out on their return home, one would get out at the end of the street in jogging gear

while the other remained in the car. And they'd sort of just pretend to be jogging along the footpath or the sidewalk, and they'd jog up to the house, basically making sure the coast was clear while the one in the car would do a few blocks and just make sure nothing sus was going on. So this was their system. They'd take it in turns who was in the car and do a few blocks and just make sure nothing sus was going on. So, this was their system. They'd take it in turns who was in the car and who was jogging.

On this occasion, November the 9th, 1974, McCoy was the one on foot. He jogged up to the house. Apparently, he was pretty knackered. They were planning on moving on, like, soon after this. And there was maybe even an argument, like, can't you be the jogger this time? I don't want to be the jogger. But anyway, McCoy, it was his turn. So, he jogs up to the house only to find three FBI agents with their guns drawn.

And they are very impressed with him and want to offer him a job as the director of the FBI. Just sign here. They were on the trail thanks to another tip-off. Seems like it's from an unknown source. The horse. Some have suggested it's Karen, but that seems ridiculous. She's been helping him out so much. Why would she all of a sudden-

She's had enough. Where's my horse, she says. Or it could be, like, the people that have sold them, like, thousands of dollars of rugs and Ming vases or whatever they were pimping out their rental with. They're still, like, sort of being connected to their old life. So, if they were- And you'd assume the FBI would be watching Karen and the family. Yeah.

Where's this horse from? See the horse get delivered. Yeah. They'd probably be able to track it back. So, the FBI agents, Nick O'Hara, Kevin McPartland, and Gerald Houlihan, had staked out the house for a few days before making their move. When Walker and McCoy headed out, they broke in and waited for their return. It's so funny, they watch them leave and go, we'll get them when they get back. Yeah. We could get them. I don't

know, like, what if they just left for good then? When McCoy entered the house, the agents called for him to surrender, but he instead drew his gun and fired a shot. Wow. The agents returned fire, wounding McCoy. Walker heard the shots and sped away, but was caught and arrested soon after a car chase. Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. died from the gunshot wound. He was 31 years old. Wow, he went down in a blaze of fire. As you know, Dave, especially back researching D.B. Cooper,

there's so many conspiracy theories. There's a whole subculture that are obsessed with it. People, there are theories that, like, wild theories, that Karen worked with the FBI to kill her husband and, like, any sort of theory you could think of is out there. Wow, someone's put it out there. There's theories that he never shot first. You know, they killed him and then-

Who shot first? There you go. Yeah. He is one of the main ones that comes up still when people talk about D.B. Cooper. There's so many. I think apparently there's been hundreds of people who have admitted to being D.B. Cooper. Like on their deathbed and stuff. Yeah.

And the FBI look into it and they're like, that isn't possible. You weren't born yet. Yeah. Which is interesting because I am D.B. Cooper. Finally. Yeah. That feels good. A bit of closure.

Yeah. Nice way to finish the episode. Oh, it's very cathartic. I thought I'd talk a little bit. There's this book called D.B. Cooper, The Real McCoy, which was written in the early 90s by an ex-FBI agent. And it's all about how McCoy is Cooper, obviously. It sounds like they've got the title and worked back, and I's all about how McCoy is Cooper, obviously.

It sounds like they've got the title and worked back, and I love it. I salute that. Me too. Probably the main thing that makes people think it could be him is that he looks quite a lot like the DB Cooper sketch. Oh, okay. Let's see. I should have had this ready.

Matt will bring up an image. I'm sure we'll be posting an image on our social media this week. You can follow us at DoGoOnPod on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. at this, Rudy. Matt will bring up an image. I'm sure we'll be posting an image on our social media this week. You can follow us at DoGoOnPod on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. So, there's the DB Cooper one, and there's Richard McCoy. Oh, wow. Yeah, that does seem- Have you put a pair of sunglasses on this guy? Absolutely.

Yeah. So, I think that's one of the big things. One of the- I mean, there's a bunch of people on either side of this. It feels like everyone supports one guy. No, it can't be him because it's my guy, you know. But also, how is that guy only like 30? Yeah, that's wild, right?

He's 29 there. But- Wow. And that's the other thing. DB Cooper was thought to be like in his 40s or 50s. I thought he was much older than that, but maybe he's just- So, people who say that are like, well, that doesn't make sense at all. And D.B. Cooper's slightly taller, all these sort of things as well.

So, some people like it was definitely him because he looks like him, but also his M.O. was almost identical. Yeah. But others will say, no, that's because he was a copycat. He studied it. Yes. And that doesn't mean he's the same guy. Very famous at the time. So, a lotcat. He studied it. Yes. And that doesn't mean he's the same guy. Very famous at the time.

So, a lot of people knew about it. Yeah. Here's a little bit of an article from Crime Library that breaks down a little bit of the real McCoy, D.B. Cooper argument by ex-FBI agent Russell Kalame. His theory was based on the similar methods of the hijackings, as well as the skinny black tie with a mother of pearl clasp that Cooper left on the plane. If you recall that, that was like the only bit of evidence they really had, the physical bit of evidence. The tie apparently was like those worn by McCoy and other male Brigham Young students, and McCoy owned a mother of pearl clasp identical to the one left behind by Cooper. There's suggestions that his in-laws saw the tie like oh you got you got richard's tie like that's db cooper's tie you know oh

but another thing that's come out in the last year richard mccoy's two kids have come out since karen died a couple years ago and said we can finally say our dad was db cooper but they were so young at the time. They were like four and six or something. Okay. So, but they're like, it was, they've come out in this weird YouTube video saying that- Did you watch the video?

I was just wondering how believable, you know, if you're like, are you just loving the limelight here or- Oh, no, I mean, I've heard the audio of it. It sounds like it could be true, but it also sounds like it's very similar to the arguments made by Kalaim in his book. Gotcha. Right, yeah.

So, maybe they've- Yeah. It's just sort of seeped in or something. Yeah, and the book feels a bit like confirmation bias. Yeah. In a lot of ways. He had the same kind of tie. Case closed.

So, did everybody else at that school. On Death at the West, they're also like- I mean, it can't even be guaranteed that that was D.B. Cooper's tie, and if it was, did he just buy it from an op shop that day as part of a disguise? Like, there's no... Also, D.B. Cooper was thought to be a heavy drinker and smoker because on the flight he was doing those things, whereas McCoy is a teetotaler, non-smoker. Yeah. And then others will say, yeah,

DB Cooper could have been putting it on to put people off the scent, you know. Right, but he didn't do that the second time. It's also thought that he couldn't have possibly been there when DB Cooper was because he was meant to be somewhere else, but the kids say, no, no, that's not true where they thought he was. He could have been there. And there's a call. There's all these little bits and pieces. Like there a collect call to mccoy's house from vegas when they thought maybe

that's when db cooper would have been laundering his money at the casino okay it's all very complex but people have spent a lot of time on it but it all feels like it to me it feels maybe unlikely but i have no fucking idea of course at the same time he he's a guy who loves talking about his own hijacking right why would he never have come clean himself about the db cooper one yeah it's interesting to say he said to his mate if i ever did a hijacking i'd do this it's like well didn't you just do one two months ago yeah exactly he was asked one time point blank if he did it and he said i don't want to talk to you about it. That's not a yes or a no.

That's not a yes or a no. Yes, and also, wasn't he, his marriage was having trouble because he didn't have any money or whatever, but he was- The theory is that he lost all that money. D.B. Cooper lost all that money. Yeah. Apart from a small amount that he- Remember, he tried to give money to the staff on the plane.

They wouldn't accept it, so he just shoved that in his pockets. So, the theory is that all the money so he just shoved that in his pockets so the theory is that he all the money he landed with was the stuff in his pockets he lost all the bags of it so he had a few grand and apparently around that time mccoy bought a few things so that was that little bit of money he had but then he ran out and he needed another big job how interesting it's all very clumsy and in but it's all fascinating as well, I think. Yeah, it is. So, yeah, there's people who fully believe it. Wrigley, on the other hand, says, personally, I think it's unlikely.

His hijack was not as well executed, and I suspect it is more likely to have been a copycat. But his story is nevertheless fascinating. Even for what we know he definitely did do, that is fascinating. Isn't it? It's wild that he has fallen into the shadow of D.B. Cooper. I guess he doesn't have the mystery of D.B. Cooper. But what he did is quite a wild story in itself, and it's basically been forgotten.

Yeah, absolutely. I've never heard of that, but that was an incredible story. I've got to ask, did Karen ever get in trouble for aiding and abetting her husband? She sued the authors of that book. Right. That said her husband was DB Cooper, because in it it said some pretty messed up things about her, and she sued over that. But in the process of that case, she had to admit that she was involved.

So she admitted she was involved, didn't get in trouble for it, but it's on the record that she was involved. But, yeah, that book was still allowed to be published there was settlements made i think she was paid out because there were accusations that in that book that she helped the fbi kill her husband and stuff like that some of those pretty messed up theories are in there and um yeah the other thing was that the judge said he's like how could anything in this book be worse than you admitting to being involved in this hijacking but she must have been like what about the thing saying that I killed my husband? You know, I think that's worse.

Yeah. But yeah. So, the other thing that came out of that was that a movie deal couldn't be sold. The rights to the book couldn't be sold for a movie deal unless it excluded some of those real crook things about her. But anyway, she lived a pretty long life. She only died in, I think, 2020. Right, but never had to go to jail for any of the aiding and abetting or anything like that.

Yeah, exactly. There you go. Karen. Well, how about Denise? Was she just panicking the rest of her life? She panicked all the way to the grave. Poor Denise. I'll play the fifth.

Just asking what coffee you'd like. Yeah. I'll play the fifth option. I played the fifth option. I'm milk all damn. I'll take it, but nah. I'll take it, but I'll take it. That was a great report. Fantastic story.

Well told. Loved it. Well, that brings us to everyone's favourite section of the show, where we thank and love out loud some of our fantastic supporters. And if you want to be one of these supporters, you can go to patreon.com slash do go on pod. These are the people that keep the show running. They keep the lights on and the record button red.

The first thing we like to do is thank a few people. There's a bunch of different rewards you can get on different levels, bonus episodes, voting of topics. You get to be in the nicest corner of the internet on our Facebook group, all those sorts of things. The first thing we like to do is the Sydney Scharnberg level supporters or above get to give us a fact-quoted question in a section that we call fact-quoted question

that has a jingle that goes something like this. Fact-quote or question. Ding. He always remembers the ding. She always remembers the jing. And the vibrato. And the vibra. So the way this one works is our great supporters on the Cindy Schomburg level

give us a fact, quote, question, brag, suggestion, anything they like. They also get to give themselves a title. I don't read them out until I read them out, and that's just me excusing myself for poor pronunciation. The first one comes from Kate Hopner, who's given herself the title of Assistant Director of Panicking. It's good to have an assistant for you, Jess. Yeah, love that.

God, I was doing too much. It's taken off your plate.'s taken up the delegate a bit And Kate's asking a question writing I just learnt that Thank God You're Here is making a return Yeah I remember you guys reminiscing about it some time ago And wondered if any of you would entertain the idea of being a guest I cringe to think of who they might bring out of the woodwork to do it

But I hope they bring in some new talent, especially from the stupid old verse. Matt could put those improv classes to use. I'd do it. I mean, I don't know if this is surprising, but yes, I would do a big- Network show. Network comedy show.

Yeah, bravely, he would do it. I will be the new host of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. Very much like that you're asking that like I have a saying at Kate. Yeah. Cringe to think who they're going to bring out. Well, Celia Piccolo's hosting it. Is she? Oh, sick.

That's been announced. That's not a bit of goss that I have that I shouldn't be announcing. And did she have to kill Shane Gould for that? Not Shane Gould. Shane Bourne. Shane Bourne. How dare you? Yes. Because thereould for that? Not Shane Gould. Shane Bourne. Shane Bourne. How dare you? Yes.

Because there was a mix-up. Gould went first, sadly. Yeah, very upsetting. Would I do it? I'm a bit busy. Yeah, of course, but they're not knocking on our door, Kate. I'm so sorry. Really?

They didn't knock on your door? Because I've already knocked them back. It was a no from me. I would like to think there'd be people from our circles who'd be involved, though. Definitely. Jess is nodding. I don't know if she's allowed to say. No, I'm not.

I haven't said or intimated anything. That's very exciting. Cast or guest? Both. Sick. And a lot of people in our universe are working behind the scenes as well. Oh, that's so great. It's really good.

I obviously knocked them back. Yeah. They asked me to work behind the scenes, in front of the scenes. I said, no, no, no. I'm doing a podcast. I'm busy one day a week. Thanks very much. No, I'm super excited to watch that.

Loved that show. I did love that show too. I have the box set and DVD. Oh, awesome. I keep excited to watch that. Loved that show. I did love that show too. I have the box set and DVD. Oh, awesome. I keep meaning to watch it. My favourites were always Peter Rosethorn, Angus Sampson, Josh Lawson. Like, the actors were always pretty good at it. Angus Sampson was a lot of fun.

Angus Sampson was so good. Yeah. Big, big fan. Yeah. Thank you, Kate. Next one comes from Ryan Butterfield. Okay. Senior chief submariner that breathes recycled air for months at a time.

And Ryan's giving us a follow to a bet. Okay. I think this is the first follow to a bet we've had. Wow. I don't know what that is. I don't either. Let's find out together. So, Ryan writes, good day, Matt, Jess and Dave.

Good day. In that order. He didn't say that, but I did. Just a quick follow up to my last post. Wait, I forgot. Sometimes your guy's memory isn't the best. So, a quick recap. Mostly for Jess.

Thank you so much. This is amazing, Ryan, how much you are. You get us. You get us. If you guys come to tour the US, my cousin will be my ticket to the show. Oh, that's right. Oh, yes. If I buy his plane ticket to the location.

You said New York City was a more likely spot, and that works too. My cousin is coming from Washington State. Also, I miswrote last time that I would buy his plane ticket. The actual bet was his ticket. Okay, that makes more sense. We thought it was a bad deal for one of you. Yeah. One buys a plane ticket, the other buys a show ticket.

Our show tickets will be very expensive, though. Yeah. Thousands. Yeah, it's probably cheaper to just fly somewhere. Yeah. Just have a nice holiday. Melbourne. It's probably cheaper to just fly somewhere.

Yeah. Just have a nice holiday. See you in Melbourne. Yeah. To cover our visa lawyer, we are going to have to charge an amount that maybe no one will come. Yeah. Which means we're going to have to charge more because less people are going to come. Yeah. In case it's this horrible cycle or something, we're in seven figures.

So, now we just need one person to buy a $100,000 ticket. I reckon, yeah, I reckon buy the tickets while they're uncomfortably expensive, because if you don't, it's only going to get more expensive. That's right. It's going to be the bomb. As the demand drops, the price rises. I would be looking at your day-to-day life and thinking, where can I make adjustments to save some cash?

Do you need a coffee? You know, stuff like that. Do you need avocado toast? Do you need a coffee? You know, stuff like that. Do you need avocado toast? Do you need a new car? Do you need nappies or diapers as you call them? Probably not. So, put them back and come see our show. Buy a lot of merch as well, please.

Use it as a nappy. Yeah. Oh, hang on. So, he's saying it wasn't his ticket or his plane ticket. It was his transportation ticket. Right. He didn't specify what kind. So, his question is what transportation should he pick and what form of transportation would

you want to see or would you want to use across the USA? Hovercraft for me. Oh, you like to hover. Yeah. Are they the ones that are like amphibious? Are they those ones that sort of, they're a boat and then they're a land thing? They're called hovercraft for me. Oh, you like to hover. Yeah. Are they the ones that are like amphibious? Are those ones that sort of- They're a boat and then they're a land thing? They're called hovercrafts?

Hovercraft. Hovercraft, sorry. Hover. You've been on French lessons so long you can't- Sorry, that vowel sound was slightly different. I'm hovering. I'm thinking that I would probably choose a razor scooter. Just really take in all the states as I cross from one side to the other.

You can pack it down easily. Yeah, exactly. I'd be going one of those fully kitted out, like, tour buses. Oh, yeah. With, like, bed. Like, I'd have a bedroom. Pool on the roof. And somebody drives for me.

Yeah. Like Dolly's one. Have you seen Dolly's one? No. So good. Yeah, I'd do that. I'd have a driver, but I could sit in the lounge and look out the window, or I could go, you know, have a snooze.

Love that. I get a bit- I don't like flying, so I'll get on a bus. That'd be nice. I think it was- I saw Dolly Parton's bus on- Brian Johnson had a talk show, like an interview show, and he did an episode with her. Great ep. Am I thinking Brian Johnson, the right Brian Johnson?

ACDC. From ACDC. He had a talk show. Okay. Wouldn't have put him on my list of people to host a talk show. There you go. Or was Dolly Parton interviewing him? It's one way or the other.

I think it was Brian Johnson. That's great. Good on him. Yeah. Welcome! So, I think we should get you to get your cousin a, I'd say, based on this episode, just first class plane tickets. First class, yeah, to make it worthwhile.

Yeah. Thank you very much, Ryan. Oh, no, I mean, you're a submariner. Just get him a ticket in your submarine. Yes. That way you could, if you go coast to coast, you just sort of go under, wouldn't you? Just go under America. Yeah, way easier than going around.

You go deep enough. Yeah. I don't fully get, like, that that isn't possible. Do you know what I mean? Like, sure. How crazy? I don't get it. The next one comes from Harrison and Rebecca Ellis,

aka Sargento Whisper and Bandit Chips, names inspired by the horse name it generates. It's catching on, Jess. And they ask a question writing, when you all finally get to come to America, what would be a fast food chain that you would be most excited to try? For example. Chipotle. Oh, okay. I've never had most excited to try? For example- Chipotle.

Oh, okay. I've never had Chipotle. I think you'd like Chipotle. I just thought that was a sauce from- Nah, babe. From that place we get burritos from. Yeah, Zambreros. Zambreros.

Oh, I love Chipotle. Sauce. They've given some examples. Culvers, In-N-Out Burger, Chick-fil-A, et cetera. As Wisconsinites, we're partial to Culver's. I don't think I've heard of Culver's. I've not heard of Culver's. I've heard of the other two.

Chick-fil-A is always mentioned a lot. Yeah, it's in some lyrics, right? Oh, you know how to White Castle? White Castle, that's interesting. That's mentioned in Bill Bryson's book about American English. He talks about the origin of... They were pre-McDonald's. And people rave about In-N-Out Burger as well.

Oh, yeah, I've had In-N-Out Burger in LA. Yeah, that was good. I don't know. Is that that one? They do fast food very well over there. Right. I don't... Yeah, I don't know anything about any of these.

I only know about the ones that come here. Subway. Yeah, that's right. Subway, yes. McDonald's. Yep. Taco Bell. Hungry Jack's. Mm-hmm. anything about any of these i only know about the ones that come here subway subway mcdonald's yep taco hungry jacks red rooster well this is what harrison says i would want to get red rooster and try the reds hot fried chicken if i came to australia and rebecca says i'd love to try pie face because i've had a few so few kinds of pie in my life, and that seems like a problem that needs to be fixed.

Oh, yeah. You could try out some Pie Face and make sure you're near a toilet. Oh, the good people at Pie Face. That is slander. I'm a big fan. I like Pie Face. Especially the- I don't know if they do it anymore because they're basically now in petrol stations.

Yeah. But they used to have their own stores in the city. There was like six of them open 24-7. I loved it. You can get what was called a stack, which was a pie in a box with your mash, with your gravy, with your peas. Absolutely could not get enough. 24-hour pies were so great. And they did dessert pies as well.

So, I would often get the veggie curry, I call them a curry pie. Good stuff. And the apple and custard pie for dessert. I like that. Two-course meal right there. I like the chocolate pie for dessert. Love that. You know, the most memorable time I ate Pie Face was in New York City. I think it was the, they tried to open over there.

In Times Square, was it? It wasn't in Times Square, but it was like two doors down from the Ed Sullivan Theatre where I saw Letterman. So, I went, had a pie face and I went in there. I was confused. I'm like, I thought these were Australian. And he goes, they are. I'm pretty sure that Letterman went to one on the show.

What would have been that one probably? He went down and had it, brought a pie back. Had that on the show. Wow. I'm looking at top 50 fast food chains in America. I've never heard of this, but Jason's Deli sounds interesting. You can find muffalettas. Not sure what that is.

Loaded baked potatoes. Fantastic. Caprese paninis and the endless garden fresh salad bar at any of the 273 Jason's Delis across the country. Wow. Jason's Delis across the country. Wow. Jason's Delis. Not fast food, but I'd want to go to an Olive Garden. Oh.

Okay. Is that not fast? What's that? That's a restaurant. But it's a chain restaurant. Restaurant like McDonald's is a restaurant? I think slightly better than a McDonald's. What kind of food?

Olives. Yes. And salads, I guess. Yeah. Is it all olive salads? Yep. Wow. Sounds delicious. Kalamata? No. Oh. But interesting. Great question. Thank you, Harrison and Rebecca. And finally, this one's

from Ola McGrath. Okay. Brigadier General of Being a Fantastic Friend. Brackets. Not to brag. Close brackets. And Ola is offering a fantastic friend, brackets, not to brag, close brackets. And Orla is offering a fact writing, hi gang, my fact is that it's a pretty cool guy's birthday. Well, actually it was a week ago, but I definitely didn't think to do this too late. And this is actually an intentional choice to make your birthday last longer. Happy birthday, Robert. I hope you enjoy this more than the socks I'd normally get you, and this makes up for the fact we weren't able to go for pints

for either of our birthdays this year. Thanks for getting me into Do Go On. I guess you've got good taste in podcasts. Also, shout out to Graunier, who'll probably be the one to listen to this first and tell Robert about it. Oh, I love it.

It's a real relay system we've got going on here. Love this. Orla McGrath. One of the best names in the biz, I reckon, Orla McGrath. Yeah, 100%. I'd never heard of Orla's until recently. There's an Orla who plays for the Brisbane Lions. She's Irish as well.

Yep, that makes sense. Orla O'Dwyer. She's a gun. Yep, yep. All of a sudden it's become, it's got to be one of my favourite names, Orla. I met an Orla doing the audience warm-up last night. I'm not kidding. No word of a lie, Orla It's got to be one of my favourite names I met an Orla doing the audience warm up last night No word of a lie Orla McGrath I thought of you

Because you were also the first Orla I knew of That's nice That was honestly how I remembered their name It's the name sweeping the nation Orla That's a big big happy birthday To Robert Good on you Robert

Thanks for listening and hope you have a great bloody birthday. Thanks for getting all involved as well. Yeah, spreading the good word. Well, if it wasn't for you, Dave and I might not have heard of the name Aller. Exactly. And I can't remember a pre-Aller world now. You guys haven't watched Derry Girls? I have.

There's an Aller in that. One of the main ones? Yes. Okay, well. But I think that I knew Alla McGrath first. I think I knew Alla McGrath first as well. Derry Grouse, fantastic show based on, of course, Alla McGrath's life. That's right.

In the 90s. In the 90s, yeah. Thank you so much to Alla Harris and Rebecca, Ryan and Kate. The next thing we'd like to do is thank a few of our other great supporters. Jess Norman with a bit of a game here. Yeah, that's true. I do. And I can't think of a game for this one. I mean,

when in doubt, we turn to the good people at Horse Name Generator. Fake name on the plane. Yes, what are they checking in at at the counter? Great. The kind of name, and this is the name that would be broadcast across the PA system of the airport if you're running late.

Yep. Would, insert name here, please. Would Chicken Nug Nug Bugaboo please come to gate three. To gate three, the plane is fuelled and ready to take off. Alright, I've already got a good one. Absolutely. Alright, well, if I

may kick us off, I'd love to thank from Dublin in Ireland, Connor Kirby McGill. Picasso Adagio. Paging Picasso Adagio. Mr. Adagio. First name Picasso.

Okay. If that was a real name, that would be the best name I'd ever heard. Picasso Adagio. That is a brilliant name. Jess, can I just double check Connor's's surname pronunciation there you're our irish language expert connor kirby that's probably mcgill mcgill great so not mcgill like i said move over mcgill because you're now picasso adagio fantastic and uh can i say to you connor welcome to plane uh next up i'd love to welcome from Greensboro

In North Carolina I think I let a North Carolina slip before Without letting everyone know that A fun fact That's the place where Venus flytraps are from Really? Yeah Fantastic

Anything about mini golf that you know about that area? Maybe invented it or something Yeah one of the first mini golf offices in the world Possibly the first Little fact I learnt That's a fact that needs no introduction to about that area? Maybe invented it or something. Yeah, one of the first mini-alcoholic offices in the world. Possibly the first. That's a fact that needs no introduction to Sarah Hamlet. Or Hamlet? Could be a soft B.

Hamlet. Hamlet. Max Espresso. Oh, yeah. And not Espresso. Like how people mispronounce Espresso. Max Espresso. Like how I say Espresso. Max Espresso. So good. Like how people mispronounce espresso. Yeah. Max Expresso. Like how I say Expresso. Max Expresso.

Max Expresso. Not Mass Espresso. I love getting Espresso martinis. I'm real basic. Next one, please. May I thank from Melbourne, right here in Victoria. Wow. Zayla Nolte.

Buck Dynamite. Whoa. Buck, that sounds like a brendan fraser movie don't you think you could play buck dynamite that's uh that's very close to a recent episode jess that we did of who knew it where we had to come up with um fake names for a stunt double and one of them was buck blazley buck blazeman i picked that one that sounds like a real name buck dynamite fuck yeah my fake name was it was gregory thunderclap and i laughed so hard dave i love it gregory thunderclap if anyone wants to check that out that's the episode with jess and damien cowell and yeah that's that's all for me Zalia, Sarah and Connor Dave do you want to thank a few? I will pick up

Where we left off and say thank you so much From Waldron Arizona Yoda Moon And that is the nickname Jess was so excited I didn't even get the name out there Yoda Moon aka Rachel Hilliard Brown

Yoda Moon I thought Waldron Arizona Arizona was the person. I was like, that's already good. Yoda Moon. It's not even Arizona. It's Waldron, Arkansas. I'm so sorry. I just saw the AR and I just went, I had a punt.

Waldron, Arkansas. Arkansas. Okay, Waldron, Arizona. I don't know anything about Arkansas. Well, you know that Waldron's from there. Do you want to, let me tell you about Waldron. Population 3,300. that Waldron's from there. Do you want to- Let me tell you about Waldron. Population, 3,300. Wow.

Mayor, David Millard. Sorry, Meyer. Meyer, which- David Willard, which isn't that far off. Rachel Hilliard Brown. So, makes you think. Maybe they're related. She's somehow related to the mayor.

Wow. Thanks so much, Rachel. I would like to thank also from- Now, this person is from an unknown location. I can only presume it's deep, deep within the fortress of the moles or Iceland. This is Matthew Tales. AKA Charlie Blackjack. Charlie Blackjack.

Charlie Blackjack. You're on fire. Just like looking around the room. Charlie Blackjack. Matthew Tales, possibly Matthew Talis. I'm going to give you that pronunciation just in case. I would now like to thank from Olath in Kansas. I'm just double checking that because I'm worried I'm saying these wrong.

From Olath in... The name that I'm shouting out to is Meat. Meat, that's all the full name we've got. out to is Meat. Meat. That's all. The full name we've got. Meat from Olath, Kansas, a.k.a. Bugsy Gentleman. Oh, yeah.

That is very good. Meat Bugsy Gentleman. Bugsy Gentleman, please stand up. Please make themselves known to the staff. Bugsy Gentleman. Fantastic. That's my three. Jess, would you like to read some names out here? gentlemen, please stand up. Please make themselves known to the staff, Bugsy gentlemen. Fantastic. That's my three. Jess, would you like to read some names out here?

Yes, here we go. I would love to thank, from Mitcham in Great Britain, Harry Clark. Harry Clark. Okay. Harry Clark. We could use that name up a little bit. I think they could go by the name of... Don't pressure me.

Sorry, sorry. The horse name generator. It's not just a click and refresh type thing. Well, it's not refreshing. It works on its own time, this thing. But I've got one. Rudolph Bamboo. Oh, my goodness.

Rudolph Bamboo. That's pretty good. We should send Qwerty a message saying that for horses to love, we've got some name options for it. Absolutely, we can name that horse. So, thank you to Harry. I would also love to thank, from Croydon in Victoria, Mick. Mick.

Mick. Mike. I was about to think that I had to do something, but I don't. You don't. I've got it. I'm just trying to go between tabs.lin legend oh my god you have not had a miss well that's fantastic you want me to thank the last person box so you can work on that i think i've got one and finally also from address unknown can only assume from deep within the fortress of the moles they only seem to go by mc

but i'm basing off their email address just in case they wanted a slightly more personalised shout out. I think their name is Monica. Okay. Well, actually, it's Wombat Bramble. You're finished with the best. MCU Wombat Bramble. MCU Wombat. Bro.

Brother. Sorry, brother. I would never bro. No, that's more of a HG. HG for Rory and HGat, bro. Brother. Sorry, brother. I would never bro. No, that's more of an HG. HG for Rory and HG loves a bro. This is rugby league, bro. Happy rugby league to everyone listening. Happy rugby league.

Thank you so much to MC Mike, Harry, Meat, Matthew, Rachel, Sayla, Sarah and Connor. And the last thing we need to do is welcome a few people Harry, Meat, Matthew, Rachel, Sayla, Sarah and Connor. And the last thing we need to do is welcome a few people into the TripDitch Club, which I know Jess explains better than anyone. Thank you. I do. So, the TripDitch Club is for people who have supported us on Patreon.com for three consecutive years on the shout-out level or above,

and we welcome them into this exclusive club. Once you're in, you cannot leave. I like to see it like an airport lounge. Matt says it is more of like a cool bar type hangout clubhouse. Yeah, like Frank Sinatra might be hanging out there. Oh, yeah. Red Velvet. Yes, it's classy.

We've got a bar. We've got snacks. We've got booths. Yeah, we've got booths. That's levels. Thanks, Dave. Yeah. I just wanted everyone to know. We've got booths. Booths. That's levels. Thanks, Dave.

I just wanted everyone to know. We've got booths. Booths. We do have booths, yes. And, you know, like fancy- I imagine when I say airport lounge, you know how like some of the airport lounges have like a cool bathroom so you can have a full shower and stuff? It's like that. What life are you living? I see TikToks.

Oh, okay. I've never fucking- Are you kidding me? I wanted to share a lounge. It was nice. Oh, my God. When you say that, I'm picturing the gate. I forget that the lounge is like- No, like a first class. It's a little fancier to me, but yeah, I forget that there's- I'm talking like a first class lounge. You're a VIP airport. No, I'm not. I just see videos. Okay. And dream. I'm behind the bar, so I have a few cocktail specials and food, and this week I'm serving grenades.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Is that the food? Is that the cocktail? It's both. Okay, grenades. I've got a grenade in each hand, and if you order anything, I will set them off.

Okay, I reckon I won't be ordering much tonight. Good call. The pins have been I won't be ordering much tonight. Good call. The pins have been pulled. And put into this envelope. And Dave, have you booked a band? I always book a band, and you're never going to believe it, I booked a band from Utah this week, taking me back to my emo days. The Used are in tonight.

They're from Utah. From Utah. Do they play jazz? They probably could on request. Okay. Great. They're from Utah. From Utah. Do they play jazz? They probably could on request. Okay. Great. We'll be requesting. As you know, Utah is obviously famous for jazz.

Exactly. Well, there's just four inductees this week. The way it works is I'm on the door about to lift the velvet rope so you can get into Jess's private airport section. And I'll read out your name. Dave's up on stage. He's hopping up the crowd, making sure you feel welcome with some pretty weak wordplay. Jess is then backing Dave up, trying to make him feel better about his probable failure. Here we go. First up,

I'd love to welcome in, when you hear your name, enter the club from Geelong West in Victoria, Australia. It's Mahama and Tom. Mahama and Tom, do go on. Yes, it's Mahama and Tom. Mahama and Tom, do go on. Yes, that's a nice easy one. Go on. You've rhymed Tom with on there, have you? From Fort Bragg in California, it's Marshall Carr. I don't mean to Fort Bragg, but Marshall Carr, you'll go far.

I did both there. That's pretty good. You are warming up from Mobile in probably Alabama, maybe, in the United States. It's Phil Hyatt. Will we take the red Phil or the blue Phil? You know what? I'll take the Hyatt Phil.

Phil Hyatt, that is. Yeah, that's good. And finally from Sheffield in Great Britain. Jess, I need your help on this one. M-A-E-N? Main? Main Gallagher. The Main Gallagher course is here.

Wow. Eat up. Thank you so much to everyone who's been supporting the show for three years. Can't believe it. You're all legends through and through. Head on in. Grab a grenade. Enjoy Bert and the used.

Wow. I want to... Oh, it's saying... I tried to click on a pronunciation for Maine and it said forbidden. Oh, wow. So we'd not have said that name out loud. Forbidden. No, that's how it's pronounced.

Oh. Forbidden. Welcome in Maine, Phil, Marshall, Mahmah and Tom. Make yourselves at home, please. Now, Dave or Jess, anything we need to tell people before we go? Just that we love them. That if you want to suggest a topic, you can. There's a link in the show notes and also on our website, which is dogoonpod.com,

and you can find all info about, you know, live shows and all sorts of fun stuff. And follow us on socials at dogoonpod. Dave, you boy, boot at home. And don't forget, this is episode 399, our big 400th episode if you're listening this week. It's this Saturday night, Melbourne time. Tickets in person are sold out,

but you can buy a streaming ticket anywhere in the world to watch live or later. We're at Stupid Old Studios, so you know the crew are going to have a fantastic set up for us. We can't wait to, yes, celebrate because it's the 400th episode, but then also afterwards, the after party DJ Bob Perkins on the decks.

Can't wait. So you can get tickets to that. The same website, Jess has said. DoGoOnPod.com But until next week, we'll say thank you so much for listening. Until the 400th, thank you so much and goodbye! Later! Bye! Two terms anymore Yeah, they went 45 years in prison

Or 45 years as president Yeah And he went, I'll take the president I'll take the president Good call Let's find out Karen's still unhappy though Yeah, Karen

First Lady Karen Cannot please her First Lady, more like First Winer First Winer First Winer Well, the record shows that he did the talking thing with his hand. I couldn't think of a way to make it sound like lady. What's a thing that sounds like complainer, but it's lady?

Complain-y. Complain-y. Oh, yeah. Edit all that out. Let me have this joke. Little joke there joke there not very good work jess first complain we can wait for clean water solutions or we can engineer access to clean water we can acknowledge indigenous cultures or we can learn from indigenous voices we can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work

together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. I reckon Jess would let you have it.