Do Go On - 399 - The DB Cooper Copycat Hijacking

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

On the 7th of April, 1972, United Airlines Flight 855, was en route to Los Angeles. 20 minutes after making a stopover in Denver, a passenger is noticed holding a hand grenade. From there, things get hectic! Is this a DB Cooper copycat? Or even DB Cooper up to his old tricks again? Tune in to hear this wild story!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 03:56 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodLive show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/Check out our merch: https://do-go-on-podcast.creator-spring.com/ Check out our AACTA nominated web series: http://bit.ly/DGOWebSeries​ Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:deathinthewestpod.com S2https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/richard-floyd-mccoy-jrhttps://www.nytimes.com/1972/04/08/archives/hijacker-gets-500000-bails-out-of-jet-over-utah-hijacker-gets.htmlhttps://fearoflanding.com/history/the-odd-story-of-richard-floyd-mccoy-jr/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. And welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnocky, and as always, I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart.

Toot, too! Hey, Jess, all aboard. All aboard, yeah. How good it to be alive. Love to be here in the pod studio here at the stupid old studios. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I love you saying that as you put the hood over your head. Yeah, it's a little chilly here.

A little bit chilly, but... In the winter starts today, doesn't it? Oh, yeah. At the time of recording. A time of recording. Happy winter. Happy winter to you too. It's so nice to be here in the Stupid Old Studios.

I've got to tell you that. A lovely spot. A lovely spot. This is the third Stupid Old Studios we've recorded in. And it gets bigger and better every single time. Yeah. But that doesn't change the fact that I wish I was never born. I was wondering how you're going to get it in there.

It was a little too positive. Appreciate you bringing us back down to Earth. And while we're here, Jess, should you take the time to tell the good people at home how this show actually works? I should and I will. Well, if this is your first time joining us, hello. So one of the three of us goes away. Research is a topic, usually suggested to us by our wonderful listeners. They find out all about it.

They bring all that information back to the other two who listen politely, who never go on dog shit riffs and who never find the funny in tragedy. Never. And we always get onto the topic with a question. Always. It is Matt's turn. It is Matt's turn this week? Yes, it is.

I was letting Dave jump here again as a hype man, but he just didn't. Turn this week. Sorry. Sometimes. He's a bit delayed. Matt, do you have a question for us? I do. It's a very self-referential question here.

Love it. Let's do it. Hands on buzzers. Dave Warnocky. Doe on. What was episode 22 of Doe Go On about? I reckon I'll have a stab at this. Okay.

Is that Super Meraat Niazov? It is not Super Mera Niazov and his hijinks or whatever it's going. I want to go back and listen to that episode. That was very funny. Good fun. Let me just say welcome to plane, but that's not the right one. Okay, Jess, would you like to have a go? So it's your episode, Matt, to be clear.

It was your topic at the time? No, it was one of Dave's topics. Oh, okay. Were you trying to do some maths there to figure out? No, I just thought 22, that, I reckon Niazlov's around that time. Okay. Okay, Jess, over to you? I have no idea.

I don't remember last week. One of our most famous ones. Okay. Plain is involved. A plane is involved. A plane... It's maybe my favourite ever episode. Dave's a report on it.

Okay. A mysterious man Jump from this plane DB Cooper! It is DB Cooper. Oh yeah! Was that episode 22? 22.

How did we peaked early? I was going to say peak so young. Because what's your favourite episode, Dave? Because mine's episode 10. That's his episode 20. And we're like this is we're at 400 next week. Look, I said maybe my favourite.

It's up there. Oh, it's up there. I've got favour. It's the whole way through. But can I say my favourite episode personally is episode 399? Oh, you kiss us. There's no point. No, just putting the pressure on Matt to make this a really good one.

Yeah, make this really good. I think it's a very interesting story. How much do you remember of the DB Cooper story? I did, actually. Yes, one of the ones that's really, I think, stuck in my mind a lot because it was so outrageous. Yeah, great. Well, if any listeners haven't heard it or maybe haven't heard it recently, I reckon go back

and listen to it first because this story sort of comes off the back of it. Ooh. What happened to the man, De Bomb Cooper? The Dreamboat himself. The Dreamboat Cooper. A lot of great names. It's a Bradley Cooper. We didn't use that at the time.

I don't think Bradley Cooper was around here. He wasn't born yet. It's my favorite. It was episode 22, Dave. My favorite seven-year-old, Bradley Cooper. We didn't know what potentially had at that time. Super briefly, though, D.B. Cooper is the mysterious man who hijacked a Northwest Airline 727 to Seattle on the 24th of November, 1971.

He collected 200 grand ransom after threatening to blow up the plane before Paris. shooting out into the sky never to be seen again. Or was he? Oh my goodness. DeBi Cooper. People, uh, he's much older than you think. So this story I'm going to tell you happens about four and a half months later. Whoa. On the 7th of April, 1972, United Airlines Flight 855, a Boeing 727, same as DB Cooper's, was on route from Newark, New Jersey to Los Angeles, California. That's La La La Land. Oh. Oh.

I understand. A virus stopover in Denver, Colorado, which I think is the home of Blusifer, that wild horse statue. Absolutely. 91 people were aboard, 85 passengers and a crew of six. At 5.18 p.m. approximately 20 minutes after taking off from Denver, the passenger in seat 20D was noticed holding a hand grenade. How long had I been holding it for? Imagine pulling it out. He'd pulled it out in New York, in New Jersey, taken off, they'd landed.

No one had noticed. And he's like, come on. Come on. They're going to notice any second. On the next leg, for sure. He's going through security. He's putting it in the, like, you know, like, it's geophones, laptops, aerosols. He's putting it in the little tub.

It's going through. Nothing. He's like explosives. So I have to take them out of my bag? And that, yes, please. In the bucket. Thank you so much. Next to your laptop.

How many mills of explosive? You got a belt on? Empty your pockets? Okay, go through. Stay with your bags, please. And then he gets on the plane. He's like, all right, they haven't noticed it. I'll call the Stewart over.

Terrible service. Then come over until 20 minutes in. It's amazing to think back to how little security there was on flights back then. You could just get on a plane. Only one grenade. Okay. Welcome. What are you going to do if that one explodes?

Yeah. You got a backup grenade? You'll be all out, mate. He was described as swarthy, moustachioed, between 20 and 25 years of age, wearing glasses about five feet ten inches tall and weighing 160 to 170 pounds. I don't, I never understand that where they go, I can guess like, you're probably about this tall, but how are you guessing somebody's weight? Yeah, I'd no idea about it.

I mean, I'd barely be able to guess that they were wearing glasses, you know, let alone in their way. How were they wearing? You know, like, how do you remember? Yeah, I'll tell you what I remember, the hand grenade. Yes. I was focused on the hand grenades. I'm not sure how tall he was.

Could be one of those things where he looks kind of short sitting down, but he's just got long legs and a short body. I don't know. It's sort of like when people, when you see kids, I can't tell how old kids are. Yeah. No idea. It's a toddler and I'm like, are you eight? I don't know.

I think there's three ages, kids around my age and really old, which I know is about the same as my age. But, yeah. So there's two. Yeah. For you. There's three for us. And really old.

I don't know how people are going to be precise with any of that sort of stuff. I also think most people are around my heart. Unless someone's really tall or really short. So he was wearing a dark suit, black leather gloves and a wig. Although I had reports of him wearing much funnier clothes, like a really loud shirt and loud coloured shoes and stuff. It's borrowing roller skates. Rolling up and down the aisle.

He's got glow sticks all over him. He's having a great time. He'd already been observed acting strangely after being one of the first aboard. He wasn't the first aboard. There was already a prisoner and the prisoner's guard was, I think, first on. The prisoner had escaped and was being escorted back to prison in California. But that prisoner and others noticed that this guy... Imagine me the escaped prisoner and being like, look at that weird.

That guy seems sus to me. Do I don't trust this guy? I think that's true Oh, please just so nice to us Please don't Like legs and hands handcuffed together Oh please don't please don't In that con here thing that Steve Boshimi

Is loaded Into the gull and green Oh no This free Great, just my luck Oh and a baby as well Somewhere Oh my God

Yeah they put the baby in between The weird baby The weird baby between the weird man and the grim. Don't get me wrong, I love kids, but that's a weird baby. It's an eight-year-old. I can't tell how old kids are. So they'd been notice acting a bit weird. At one point, an airport worker entered the plane after all the passengers had boarded,

trying to locate the owner of an envelope that was left in the waiting room, or, you know, in the airport. It turned out it belonged to the man in seat 20D. Oh, my God. Get your shit together, mate. You freak. After claiming it, he locked himself. in the toilet for quite a while, like an unusually long amount of time. Who's paying attention to that?

I know. Unless you're waiting outside the toilet, really needing to piss. How long before you knock? For me, never. Oh, never, yeah, yeah. I'd shit myself in the eye. It would be ages, and I'd only be knocking because I'm like, I think they're dead. Yeah, I'm concerned.

Yeah. Well, he was... Half an hour. People did notice him go in, and he was in there so long that a crew member, maybe even one of the pilots had to knock on the door and say, hey, we're trying to, we need to take off. You've got to get out. Oh, they haven't taken off.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. File it. Please. Can you just vacate the lavatory? So we need to get to Denver. We need to depart. They wouldn't say take off.

They'd say depart. Yeah, absolutely. I reckon. We're expecting heavy crosswind. We need to beat that. They were possibly worried that he was jacking it in there. He was in there so long. Only the it.

That doesn't take that long. was the plane. What? And they were right. High jacking it. Yes. Oh no. That's what you call jacking it.

Mile high. Mile high jacking it. So like when they noticed the grenade, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, are you jacking us? Are you jacking it? Yeah, being the plane. Right. Whoa, stop jacking it. Bro, are you jacking it right in front of us?

Can you got jacket, please? Come on. It's not called a jack. It. A classic Brady Bunch movie line where Greg Brady's in the car and someone comes up to him and goes, hey, this is a car jack. And he goes, hey, I know this is a car. But my name's Greg. It's Greg.

That's good stuff. That's funny stuff. Well played Greg. Just like DB Cooper, the passenger was flying under a fake name. His was James Johnson. Okay. Jimmy Jay. I'm going to refer to him as Johnson anyway.

An off-duty pilot. No. Johnson was jacking it. Just to me. Johnson was jacking. Okay. Fantastic. I could confirm.

Who was jacking it? Johnson. Johnson was being jacked. No, no, he was doing the jacking. Okay, great. No one was jacking Johnson? No. Certainly not Jack Johnson.

No. Okay. An off-duty pilot known to be on board as a passenger was asked to discreetly suss out the situation while the crew discussed what they should do. So someone's noticed the hand grenade. Stewart Essers have found this out. They're talking about what to do. They know there's an off-duty pilot on there.

So they go, can you go just suss this guy? Just quietly just figure out. What's going on? Is this hand grenade going to be a problem? So what does he walk down and then be like, sorry, can I just look out the window? I want to see the view? Yeah, yeah. So looking at the grenade.

Yeah, it was a pilot off-duty, not undercover. But it was just a pilot who was traveling. Yeah. You thought it was an undercover customer, like a mystery shopper. No, I was thinking because undercover, I just, I went like a cop or something. But then I was like, no, it's a pilot. Yeah. And I know they have authority in the sky.

But what do you want an undercover pilot to do? Off-duty pilot, anyway. I think they just know that they can trust him. Yeah. If they're going to ask someone, he's someone in playing clothes that could maybe more subtly suss out the scenario. Yeah. Like you said, find out will it be a problem? Is this grenade big enough to blow a hole on the side of the plane?

So they're discussing what they should do. The decision they came to was that they would head to a nearby airport at Grand Junction in Colorado. As to not cause panic, the pilot announced over the PA that they were experiencing a minor technical issue and they were going to head to the airport for a quick repair. I don't know how that would sound, Dave. Nothing to worry about dear. Certainly no customer with a hand grenade in 20D. Oh, I've said too much there. Like I said, we just need to refill some refreshments.

So we forgot to load the ice creams on in Newark. So we're just going to get those on, uh, pronto. Uh, captain, uh, locked doors. Cap and lock doors. And that point of the doors have been wide open. Is it flow? Uh, engine start, please. We forgot to turn on the engine.

Engine start, please. We are, uh, gliding. And then the Corop, I was like, uh, sir, this is, uh, not a voice activated plane. She's going to push the button. Ah, recline seat. So can I ask me about Jimmy J, Mr. Johnson? He's got the grenade, but has he said anything yet? They've just noticed he's holding it.

He said nothing. Imagine sitting next to him. Yeah. Again, I wouldn't say anything. I don't think I want to make a scene. Like, I'd never knock on the toilet door. I'd never say, hey, what's that? I would just sit there and go, okay.

Probably pull out the magazine. Pretend to look through, but just while I'm quiet, like, again, shitting myself. Just start writing a note. Hey, everyone at home. Love you all. That's going to get blown up too. I don't want to be rude.

Just in case. Just in case this doesn't get blown up. The guy next to me, I reckon, about 510. I'd be paying for the onboard Wi-Fi. Oh, yeah. Send a few texts. Yeah, yeah. Updating a few tweets.

Hey, guys, sitting next we'll go with a hand grenade. Ask me anything. Would I be the asshole if I said something about this guy? I, 32-year-old female, next to male, 20 to 25. Would I be an asshole if I've said something about this? I just don't feel fully comfy with him having a grenade on this flight. But maybe... Nothing against grenades?

But maybe that's my problem. I should work through this. So the plan was to go to this smaller... nearby airport and have law enforcement meet them there. When the off-duty pilot approached seat 20D, Johnson pulled out a gun. Okay. And he handed over the envelope that had been returned to him. It was labelled hijack instructions.

And that had been returned to him. Excuse me. Excuse me. This envelope with hijack instructions on it. Is this any of it? honest, oh yes, that's right. He returned it to it. But do you reckon, you know how he went,

he got that back and then went to the toilet for ages? Do you think he was just looking at the mirror going, idiot, he's going to believe behind the instructions. That is so outrageous. Has anybody left an envelope? Oh, I did, but what does it say? Hijacking instructions.

Oh, no, that's not mine. No, that's mine. Oh, God, I've lost my envelope. So lucky to get Eels back. Never going to believe it. The guy who I just returned the high-taking instructions to has locked himself in the toilet for 20 minutes. Should we be concerned?

Yeah, concerned that we're going to be late. We need to take off. We'll get the pilots, get him out. And still take off. Security is so, so wild, though. Well, it's all about customer service. Customs otherwise right. That's right.

If he wants to hijack and he wants a hijack. That's what the customer wants to do. And we have to facilitate that for him to make it a pleasant an experience. So he told the off-duty pilot, give this envelope to the girl and have her take it to the captain. This happened and then the off-duty pilot returned to his seat. Job done you. Totally. It's like, nope. I'm off the clock. Technically, I'm not being paid right now. Seat recline. And I think that's good. I think you have to have work-life balance, you know? He'd be, how shattered would you be? God, what are the odds? This is my day off.

Do you think pilots have to fly economy? Surely. night. Yeah. I think they might. I don't know. We had a family friend who was a Qantas pilot and like the whole, his kids all, you know, did their gap years and stuff much cheaper than a lot of their other friends, free flights. Nice.

Very nice. You imagine they'd at least get bumped up if there was a spare set. Surely, yeah. Can I sit in the cockpit? Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean, please. Sure, Gary, if you. It's your flight.

You're doing it? I would prefer you did. Fuck it, hell, Gary. Oh, my God, let's go. How did he fly a plane? It's an idiot. There's a great article written by Sylvia Riggily, who's a pilot and aviation writer.

He's written a few books about flying. It has a particular interest in D.B. Cooper. And her website, Fear of Landing, talks about this incident. Incredible website. A bit of fun. So this is Sylvia. Wrigley writing.

Johnson instructed the other passengers in row 19 and 20 to move to first class in the front of the aircraft, which they were more than happy to do. That is awesome. Do you reckon he said, you've been upgraded? Yeah. Like some sort of badass. Yeah. I hope so.

You'd kick yourself if you didn't. Hey, can you come back? I've just thought of what I should have said. I saw something really funny. You've been upgraded. Yeah, get back there, whatever. I don't know if you remember in the DB Cooper one, he had a crew member sitting next to him and that crew.

remember got a good look at him and was one of the ones responsible for the famous sketch of him. Is that Florence? Flo? Oh my God, if it is. It was. It was Florence, yeah. Flo.

And again, I don't remember what we did last week. But I remember it was Florence. So Johnson did a similar thing and he tweaked it a bit, had them sit in front of him. So they weren't looking at him constantly. It wouldn't be able to get that great sketch done. Gotcha. So, yeah, he's certainly learnt some lessons from the DB Cooper high. jacking. Either first hand or not, I'm not saying. Okay, okay. Back to Rigley, according to one account,

the first class cabin crew member spoke to a doctor on board to ask if he had a medical bag with him, as there was a man on board with a grenade. The doctor reputedly said that yes, he did, but it wouldn't be much help if a hand grenade blew up in the plane full of people. Will you be able to tape these people back together? How good a doctor are you? How that string you got in there You got a lot of stitching to do Do you have any strepsels?

You think about So talking about that off-duty pilot Who's like, oh, how lucky am I to be on this flight? But apparently the odds weren't that outrageous To border plane that got hijacked back then It was the golden age for skyjackings According to Robert Holden, between 1968 and 1972 There were 326 skyjacking a team

attempts, meaning more than one a week on average. Wow. And security was at a different level and all that sort of stuff, and that's all changed in a lot of ways because of this. The word skyjack was actually coined around that time in the 60s and is thought to have originated in headlines in newspapers such as the New York mirror. Great term, skyjack. Skyjack.

You pat yourself in the back of you're the first one to come on with that. This is why I quite like American English. They have a bit of fun. Yeah, yeah. Not like these bloody stiff shirts up in the... Frickin mother country, you don't know what. There's no fear of landing.com. UK, let me tell you that.

Yeah. Interestingly, the phrase diff up a lip, which is, you know, you think of as an English thing, that was coined in America. Really? Fun fact. Did you learn that from Bill Bryson? Yes, I did. Hats off to the captain.

I hate Bill Bryson. The captain of this flight was Jerry D. Hearn. He opened the envelope that had been passed to him from Johnson v. Stewardess. According to the FBI, inside were two type pages of highly detailed directions. Also, a hand grenade pin and a bullet. Basically going, I'm legit here. All right.

I'm holding this hand grenade, but the pins out. So you try and tackle me or anything, and I let go. Oh, shit. We explode. And the bullet obviously to show, look, these are real live bullets. To show that the gun no longer has a bullet. But if required, it will need you to come back. Give me the bullet?

I just wanted to show you that it is a real bullet. Now I'll need that back, please. The instructions required the pilot to land at San Francisco International Airport and park at Runway 19 left. There he was to follow certain procedures which designated the number of persons allowed near the plane at one time and the distance from the aircraft that all vehicles, other than those containing fuel, would have be kept. These are also very similar to DB Cooper's instructions. In addition, Johnson demanded $500,000 in cash. four parachutes and the return of all written or type directions given during the course of the flight.

He's like, I don't want to leave any evidence with you. Every note I give you, you return it. The four parachutes is also the same as Cooper. The 500 grand, that's, he's gone double and a half. Okay. What Cooper went forward. Is it a public holiday or something? Must be.

Yeah. Double time and a half. I think it actually was a public holiday weekend. Oh my God. Double time and a half. I'm not working for free up here. He knows what he's worth. I'm not doing my normal hourly rates.

The guy who tried to escape prisoners on board is the guard with him, some sort of officer of the law. Yes, he is unarmed. Oh, yeah. Obviously, you don't let, anyone can bring a gun on, but not law enforcement agents. Come on, Dave. Don't be silly. That would be ridiculous. Now I say that loud.

I see how silly that sounds. So based on this new information and these demands, the crew decided to abandon their plan of landing. in Colorado. An announcement was made over the PA that the plans had changed as the Grand Junction Airport was too small for them to do what they were intending to go there for. So they would head to San Francisco instead. So they're still playing it cool. Even though some people on the plane have definitely seen a man with a hand grenade. And pull a gun on a guy walking past. Yeah. So people at the back of the plane where he's sitting around his area would be like, why are you lying to us? But there must be a few people still that they're just like. Right. Because Denver to San Francisco.

Francisco is quite a long way. Yeah. It's not like the next city over. Yeah, right. So you'd hear that and you go, oh, okay, I guess we're going to sand for you all right. But you probably wouldn't assume, but maybe you would because it's the gold nature of skyjacking. Yeah.

Apparently one of the big destinations for skyjackers back then was Cuba. So this is pretty close compared to Cuba, I suppose. Yeah. Or is it about the same? I have no idea. No idea. They are flying further away from Cuba now, sadly, for the skyjack. first stop, you know, refuel,

head to Cuba. Gotcha. In the 60s and 70s, it sounds like the standard way of dealing with hijackers was to give them whatever they asked for. So this is what they plan to do. Like dealing with toddlers. You give in once, they'll probably never ask again.

Exactly right. They'll go, thank you for giving me that thing that I wanted. Thank you for honoring my needs and wants. You treated me with respect. I'll treat me with you with respect. Yeah, that's right. What can we do for you today? I don't we go get a little chicky flat wine.

I know you love those. I'll play quietly in the corner. How about that? Let's go shopping and you can try stuff on. And I'll give you an honest opinion. Boy, is that something nice? A bit of you time. I'll be quiet.

I'll fall asleep in the car. Yeah. I think the airlines especially were like, our number one concern is making sure the plane and the passengers and all of that stays intact. Yeah, I totally get that. But the combination of, allowing anyone to bring anything they're like onto a plane and also giving terrorists whatever they

want. It's not a great one. Not a good combo. And apparently on the other hand, the FBI, they were seen as being a bit more loose. They'd come out all guns blazing sort of thing. They're like, let's just shoot it down. Yeah. But yeah, probably somewhere in the middle is the idea. On the ground at San Francisco, United Airlines started organizing the cash and parachutes as per the hijacker's demands. Once they landed in San Francisco, they taxied to a remote runway bordering San Francisco Bay. The 95 passengers on board sat for hours while the hijackers' demands were negotiated. Right. And they're still pretending that it's all cool? I think it's becoming clear now.

All of Johnson's demands were met. The plane was filled with fuel to the brim. He had about six hours flying time. They got rid of all the other passengers' luggage. his luggage, he had his ticket, they brought his luggage up to him. He brought it up to him. The prisoner that he noticed before, he used him as sort of the gopher. So he got him to go and bring the money onto the plane and those sort of things and the parachutes and whatnot. According to the FBI, after seeing the completion of his written notes, some three hours

or three and a half hours after the plane had parked, Johnson released the passengers and one of the stewardesses. He then ordered the rest of the crew into the cockpit and took a position in the rear of the aircraft. So it's just him now with the five remaining crew members. Right, and he made them go into the cockpit. Yeah, everyone up in the cockpit, I got the rest. Yeah, cool. But then, like, how can they bring you snacks?

Yeah, that's right. Didn't he's in the galley, like sort of microwaving his own little meals, little pastors? Yeah, he's got the pick of the board. Tippies. Peanuts up. Please. A couple of peck of the peanuts. Thank you very much.

According to the times, these remaining crew members' names were Captain Hearn, the first officer, K.R. Bradley, the second officer, K.W. Owen, and three stewardesses, D.M. Surtum, D.K. Sugimoto, and M.N.U.B. It did sound like D. Insertum. What's that the name?

D.M. Surdom. Who does it? Bit of fun. Bit of fun. Dave, you find joy in all sorts of places. Deinsert them. Okay. Understood.

Roger that. After that, I missed, I need to hear the last two names just to give them their time. DK. Sugamoto and MN. Ubi. Great names as well. One of the Royal East passengers later said that the hijacker had planned the incident so carefully and had the crewmen so well organized in taking care of some of its aspects,

that it sometimes appeared that there were more than one. United Airlines also believed for a time that two or three hijackers were involved. Right, because it was just so efficient. Yes. Another reason was Johnson went into the toilet and he came out looking quite different. Oh, did he put the wig and stuff on in there? Yes. He got changed.

He put makeup on, sort of like to change the complexion of his skin. So some people, you know, saw one guy go in, another come out. They just thought they were two different guys. So... Just wondering what the advantage of showing what you really look like and then changing rather than just rocking up at the airport. Back in the day when they don't really give a shit about passports or anything or photo ID for these internal flights.

Do the change in the airport, surely. In the airport. So no one ever sees your... Unless it's a third disguise. You know what I mean? At the airport, he's rocking up looking like that. That would be a real sort of left turn. You go, I look like this, which is a disguise.

I go in there, put on a second disguise. I come out in a Snoopy costume. Put the money in the bag. What do you think? That's pretty good. I think that was more clever than this. With the big head and everything? Yeah, everything.

I want a few of five hundred grand. How much? $5,000 in the bag. All right, Snoopy. I do whatever you want, baby. Johnson's at the back of the plan. He's kicking his feet up. He's got all this room now.

And he starts using the intercom. to talk to the cockpit. And he also uses that to say when he wants the stewardess to come grab another note. Okay. So he goes, hey, come, can you send her down? Just tell us the instruction on the phone now. No, I've got a note for you. Come down.

It's very important. I've printed the notes, okay? Come on. Don't make me waste the notes. So according to the FBI, he gave another set of flight instructions telling the pilot to take off towards the east, climbed a 16,000 feet and fly precisely at 200 miles per hour on a course that would overpass several specific Utah communities. Sort of had them zigzagging, but it was all very specific.

According to the New York Times, they flew over the snowy Sierra Nevada and the entire state. It went on over Fairfield and then headed towards Salt Lake City, home of the Utah Jazz. Stay jazzy. It's the jazzi estate. That's why they call them that. Remember this is the beehive state. It's the best one. Beehive state's so good.

Yeah. Where are the Utah beehives? The Utah buzz? Oh my God. That's so much better than jazz. Yeah, the Utah buzz. They've still got jazz from a hangover from when they were moved from another city. Oh, right.

So it's got, it's like a very unjazz-like state. It's probably the least jazzed state. Wow. They were trying to bring a bit of jazz state. Didn't work. But it's only, yeah, it feels funny. They're like, this is the important part that we're buying. When we buy this franchise, we're really buying the name.

Jazz. We're bringing jazz to guitar. We really don't care about basketball. Do you guys do jazz? Because that's what we thought we were buying. Yeah, that's true. There's been a little miscommunication. No take-backseys. Oh, the FBI continues. The messages now hand-printed between Johnson and pilot were sent with increasing frequency, always using the stewardess as a courier. The cabin was ordered to be depressurized, and the gunman warned that if any pursuit planes were spotted, He would detonate a hidden explosive device after he had jumped and before the plane had landed, obviously. So he's like, if anyone follows us, I've got an extra thing on here. Be a fun position to be.

I mean, ideally, you'd have all these things, but you could just say anything. Also, I'm tracking you. So don't follow me. And I can read your minds. So I don't even think about it. Okay. But as far as I know, that could, you know, that could be true. So they're treating everything like it's real.

When the stewardess realized that Johnson had forgotten to request the return of one of his notes, she quietly hid it. Okay. One of the handwritten ones. Whoa. Balty. Yeah. According to Rigley, all 727 cockpit doors had been equipped with fish-eye peep holes in reaction to the DB Cooper hijacking. So basically so they're like, we can see out.

Makes sense. And you still see that to this day, right? They often have like a little... Little peep pole. A little peephole. Peepot. The other of the pilots are just, pilots are just perves. Yeah.

I want, I want, like, peep holes on doors to be bigger. Can't see shit. I'm always like, is that a person or a shadow? I think what you want is a window. Yes. I'd like a window in my door. Yes, I want people to see in. I want them to see me looking at them and then going,

shh, shh, shh, pretend when I'm not, we're not home. Turn off lots. And then you're giving them the thumbs up through the window. Don't worry. We're not here. So fuck off. I think they believe me. Fuck off.

I think mum believed me. Honestly, I do see a lot of design Instagrams and stuff like that with these big, beautiful glass front doors. And I'm like, yes, that looks lovely. Let so much light into that entry hallway, beautiful. But I don't want people to see in. I mean, I either. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Yeah, I think that's fair. Why would you? I want to be able to hide. Well, people that their house is right on the street. Massive windows. Yeah. No curtains. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just like, like, you know, we're watching reality TV. Yeah. You can see everything. I'm walking past your bedroom. Have some shame. Have a bit of shame, would you? Sorry, Matt, please continue. No, well, think about this.

If you are worried about these windows and people we're able to see in, do what Johnson did and simply place a piece of tape over the peephole. Oh, that's good. That's clever. I don't know if it's clear tape. That doesn't help that much at all, does it? Oh, my God. I hope he wasn't using clear tape.

Might make it a little cloudier. It's like a cellar tape type. But it also might magnify it somehow. Yeah, but if it's that super clear tape, that's doing fuck all, to be honest. Put a bit of Vaseline over there. Yeah. You know, get a nice. Make it quite romantic in there.

A little bit of vasso. Unfortunately for Johnson, this didn't quite fully block the view because the second officer found that he could see into the cabin from the gap under the cockpit door, which I'm guessing must have been pretty big because under it, he watched as Johnson put on a jumpsuit, a helmet and a parachute. Wow. How many costume changed? just a C4.

It's incredible. It's like a bloody Britney Spears concert. New outfit. I'm here for it. Britney Spears, what a topical reference, too. Well, it's funny because in my mind, I went Madonna. I'm like, no, update it. Oh, really?

Yeah, I'm down with the youth. Nailed it. Doja cat. Oh, yeah, okay, good one. Does Doja do costume change? Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift. Yeah.

Taylor Swift. Okay, I'll fix that in the edit. Yeah. He then shut off the cabin lights and sent one last note via the crew member asking for wind, ground and air speeds of the aircraft, ultimata settings and local weather conditions. The pilot would have been loving this. Yeah, every time he's like, you don't have to announce it. I told you what to do. It's okay.

Yeah, yeah. Let's gentlemen, it's just me. I know, but normally I don't get to say it and people find it boring, but I love to talk about this stuff. I love getting on there. I love saying what the weather is, you know? Let me try and help you figure it out. I love saying a Barmy 17. And if Melbourne is home, welcome home.

And if it's a holiday destination, enjoy your stay. Yeah, that's right. It feels like he's trying to be secretive and he doesn't want them to see him, but then he's also inviting one member out each time. So that steward could just go, oh, he's in a different outfit now and remember what he looks like, right? I guess maybe he's thinking it's just easier for him to control. Like, they can't overpower him.

They can't surprise him. Oh, okay, sure. Maybe? Yeah, yeah. No, that does make sense. According to the Times, the California Highway Patrol told its officers throughout Northern California to be on the alert for flares and parachutes. Two supersonic F-104 jets were ordered from the Hamilton Air Force base to shadow the jetliner.

But they said, please stay out of sight because he's saying that if he sees anyone following us, we will be blown up. Yeah, wow. So they still had someone following, but at a. supposedly safe distance. Like the pilot was like holding a magazine in front of his face. Yeah, that's right. Looks not suss.

Eye holes cut out. When a signal light started flashing, indicating that the rear exit door had been opened, United Radioed to report that the hijacker had bailed out over Nevada. Right, because it's the same plane as D.B. Cooper, right? So that was the key feature of that plane was that there were like rear stairs that lowered out the back? Exactly.

They'd lower out the back and they could do that while in mid-flot. Yes, at a certain height or something. Because the, without the pressure. Yeah, yeah. Like sucking you out. Without sucking you out. Or off. Yeah.

Just in case you were worried about that. Oh no, the pressure sucked me off. So that didn't happen. Nearly 400 episodes. Somehow. Somehow. It's not strong. Yeah.

It was in the news recently that there was. an airplane that had someone open the emergency door in the air. Oh, you saw that, yeah. Is there a few hundred metres from landing? Yeah, that's right. Apparently, that was the only reason it was able to happen is because they already started the landing procedures. But thankfully, that also meant everyone was strapped to their seats, right?

So no one got sucked out or off. Yeah. One of those pros, one of those cons. And then it must be almost impossible to get the door closed, right? Do they get the door closed or was it just open while they landed? No, I think it was open until they were. landed? Because don't those ones just fall out, those emergency doors?

Am I thinking of those right? You pop them open and they go, there was something like, I don't know if it was to do, like, if it happened straight away, but I think when the plane landed, maybe I saw a description of the plane, like the escape slide had popped out or something like that, mate. Yeah. A bit of fun. That would be a wild ride.

Why did that happen? Was there any explanation? The guy did it was causing trouble, I guess. He apparently did it on purpose. Like, he opened the guard and then. It wasn't like an accident. Imagine sitting in that exit road and the door it's just open. You're like, there's footage of it.

I haven't seen it. Yeah, mobile phone footage. Yeah. So people obviously weren't shitting themselves too much to not, you know, take a few videos. Maybe a couple people had to go to hospital for like minor, you know, breathing stuff because it was hard to breathe whilst the wind was sucking off your face. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. You're trying to suck it even.

It's all been sucked out. But yeah, that's a. The story that you would tell for the rest of your life if you were on that flight for sure. I got sucked off by a plane. Is that the story of me? Yeah. You speak in daily mail headlines. So yeah, the back door, the rear door's been open.

They've got a light in the cockpit. So they're like, all right, he's jumped. We'll let them know. It looks like he's bailed out over Nevada. This sent FBI agents scrambling to get to the approximate drop zone near Tanopa in Nevada. But it turned out to be incorrect. While the door had been opened, he had. not yet jumped.

And they realized that when he called to send another note. Like, oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. He's still here. He's like trying to get the courage up going. You can do it. All right, just one.

Here we go. Here we go. All right, next one. Here we go. Definitely this time. He may or may not have realized this, but the parachutes that were given to him had tracking devices inserted by the FBI. He threw them out, though.

And it seems like he was doing this on purpose to put them off. the scent. Right. So he threw them out at different locations and the FBI had scrambled to go to these locations as well. Wow. One of the downsides to them is they didn't have very good battery life. So the tracking devices, apparently.

So they... It lasted six minutes. Yeah. They were, well, so we saw it was in the air. So I'm guessing it's still up there somewhere. Lines up the skies, boys. He's still on the plane. The notes did finally.

stop after they passed the final Utah town on his prescribed course. He had finally jumped. Oh, wow. About five hours after the hijacking began, the crew was finally free and able to head to the nearby Salt Lake City International Airport, taking a bit of jazz. They deserve it. They have a stressful day. Yeah. What a day. The FBI's investigation was in full swing, with agents heading to Salt Lake City to search the plane and helicopters and jeeps headed into the Utah area where he sought to have jumped. They were, obviously, they were all across that side of America at the time, but now they had a better idea of where he jumped.

Interviews with crew and passengers were already being conducted. According to the FBI, one stewardess recalled the subject was flashily dressed. Other passengers and crew remembered he went into the lab for an extended period, as we talked about before. All we remember about him is he was in there doing something. I think he's a bit backed up, if I can be honest. We called him Mr. Stinky. I offered him some metamusele.

I said, mate, you need a bit of fibre. You need this more than me. He's either backed up or jacked off. We're not sure. I'm not sure, but it's definitely one of them. What else could it be? So the general consensus was that the individual had donned a wig and mustache while in there, but then others thought maybe it was a second person, you know?

This is where they were kind of a bit confused at first. So the FBI hearing maybe it was a couple of people, maybe it was one, not quite sure. And then also confusing all this, the notes received by the crew generally used terminology like we this or we that giving the impression that there were more than one person. According to this podcast, Death in the West, season two of Death in the West is all about this. It's like a 10-part series talking about this story and the DB Cooper story. It's a lot of fun.

It's like an independent podcast out of Montana. I've really enjoyed listening to it. And I love that they've got their sponsor, a local cafe in their town. I'm like, I want to go to this cafe. You want to go? Does it sound great? It sounds so good.

The dishes, the drinks, I'm in. Yeah. But I just, I love how on a podcast, which is being listened to all around the world, a cafe is the sponsor. I think that's sick. That's so good. I really hope to be able to get there sometime. Anyway, I'd recommend listening to that podcast if you want to.

Find out about a great cafe. Find out about a great cafe. But here, even in more details about this story. Yeah, so that podcast's death in the west. I think it's worth listening to. I'll mention a few times coming up, but... Sounds awesome. Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's in that style, you know, the NPR sort of ones where it's like, today, we're going to talk about a man. They're fun. Unlike this, which is... Dog shit. Dog shit. They talk like in a beautiful rhythm. And we go, ma-wam, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am.

A plane sucked me off. It's just like a bunch of... cats all back. There's two podcast styles and that's our house. Everyone else was in the other case. And we love it. We love it. So this is on purpose.

Copyright. A parachute was later found by a 14 year old boy on the side of a road while his family had pulled over to replace a flat tire. Oh, wow. This is the following day. The dad ended up after their trip, he took it into this local sheriff. And they're like, oh yeah, that's definitely. Right.

You wouldn't want to find a parachute on its own. You'd be looking up going, is someone else around here that this belonged to? Yeah. Good call, yeah. Yes. And then the person splats you from above. The search of the plane was fruitful, finding a clear fingerprint on an in-flight magazine

in the spot next to his seat. He went through the magazine. I mean, everyone gets bored. It was back there for ages. He filled his luggage with costume changes. He didn't have space for a book. Yeah, he had no entertainment whatsoever. Didn't bring his nintuitive.

Nintendo Switch. He was also wearing gloves, so he's obviously like, I was going to take off the gloves to be able to flick the pages. That's right. Oh, I'm going to find out the Sudoku answers unless I flick to the back. Can't get any grip with these freaking gloves. Those bad gloves. They also found the handwritten note that the stewardess had hidden.

So they had a handwriting sample and a fingerprint, they thought. Sounds like they'd probably try and return their note to him, though. Did you lose this? Is you sure? Sorry. Sorry. They put, yeah, they just flew, they went back over where he dropped from and just let it out. I still can't believe they handed the letter saying hi, Jenkins' Strz.

Yeah, there's, there's some, like, Riggily said, she couldn't figure it out definitely. She's like, surely it was, there was another envelope above it or something that was unmarked. Surely they didn't hand. Or he's written that on after the fact, surely. But she's like, it's not clear, maybe they did. Oh, my God. They just didn't bother reading it. Yeah.

I mean, it's not mine. I don't want to. That would be rude. That would be very rude. That's a felony. Not from other people's male felony. Felony. Felony is such a great word.

What does it mean? Do we have felonies? I don't think we have felonies. It's an American thing. It's a real shame. No felonies over here. Let's bring him in. Bring in the felonies.

I think we should take on some of the best bits of the American justice system. You know, lots of people in jail. Yes. Felonies. Yes. Lots of suing people. Oh, yeah. We don't sue enough here.

Yeah. Let's get more litigious. So I can say that word, which I love to say. Yeah, that's great to say. According to the FBI, at approximately 2 a.m., FBI agents, provost city police and the Utah County Sheriff's Posse, which I love, lined up some 20 or 30 yards apart and combed the surrounding fields. The night dragged on, but no new leads were developed.

Can I ask? I forgot to ask before. When he jumped, was it still daylight? No, night time. It was a scary jump. Same as Debate Cupidone, night jump. The following day, they did get a big break though. As the people of Utah awoke to news of the hijacking,

the FBI started receiving some tips for phone calls, including one that really caught their attention. According to Wrigley, the caller said his acquaintance had told him that he had a full-proof plan for hijacking a plane. They remembered a conversation they'd held after the D.B. Cooper hijacking and knew that his friend had the skills to be able to pull this off. Right. I mean, it's foolproof until you start telling everyone about, especially people with loose lips. What a great friend, too. Yeah.

If one of you fucking dogs. I will not dog you. Call me. No, but like, if they come to you and they're really laying it on thick, I would understand. But this is like, I'm actively going to the police. Yeah, that's right. It's just calling him up. That's dog.

Mm. Uh, his friend's name? Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr. Richard Floyd McCoy, that's amazing. Floyd McCoy, Jr. Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr. Yeah. I love it and hate it.

Wow, that's rare. Get both. I'm really curious to say what you think of this guy. Okay. A very interesting character. So this is, oh, okay, this is the... This is the guy who is being fingered, not the fingeroer, but the fingery. Oh, right.

So the... mates dobed in McCoy. Yeah, I thought for a second, I thought the friend's name was McCoy, but this is the guy he's accusing. I'll tell you about the friend. Jekuse, McCoy. In a little bit. This is the, uh, the accused.

Okay, great. So who's this man? Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. His parents were Richard Floyd McCoy senior. Yep, coo figured that way out. And his mom was Mertle McCoy. And that's the only reason I bring them up because his mom name was Mertle McCoy. That's fun to say good.

Not enough medals. Not enough Murtles. Bring it back. Bring back Myrtle. It's funny to hear about this story. So she's like, Myrtle and Richard Sr., grandparents at the time. Richard Jr.'s got a couple of kids, including Richard the third, Dick the third. Of course.

Really? And so for ages, I was picturing Myrtle as this, you know, Nana, 80-year-old Nana or whatever. She's like 45. Yep. I'm like, what? They were having kids young back then. They were. Which means you having grandkids young.

Having great-kids young. You know what I mean? Do you ever meet any of great-grandparents? I think mine were all gone while the time I was around. Maybe a photo of me with maybe grandma's mum or something, but... Yeah, I can't remember. I don't think so. Maybe that's my sister, to be honest, I've just seen photos, yeah.

You can't tell the difference when your great-grandmother and your sister? That is a slap in the face. I've met your sister many times. She is noticeably a young woman. She has some real myrtle vibes. She could be a myrtle. Really? That's a couple, right?

I say that, yeah, positively. I thought it's a lovely name. Yeah. It's a lovely name. Honestly, it's a sick name. I'd, I'd, yeah, Myrtle, I reckon. I'd buy that. Yeah.

Anyway, but she's not, sadly. Metal Perkins. That's real good, actually. Myrtle Perkins is so good. Medall-Warniky, not that good. Not that good. Metal Stewart, not that good. Not bad.

It's right in the middle. Metal Perkins. It's the, it's the urt and irk, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Great. Well, there you go.

Put it on the list. I have names to change. your own too. Yeah, absolutely. According to Riggily, Richard McCoy was a devout Mormon who lived in Provo, Utah, since 1962. He was born in 42,

so he's been there since he was 20. Oh, yeah. And, you know, this is now 72, so he's 29 at the time. When he enrolled at Brigham Young University is when he moved to Provo. And also, they thought he was 20 to 25 and he's 29.

Yeah, that's a compliment. That's a good moisturiser. Absolutely. That, my friends, is the benefit of SPF. I mean, that's if it is him, of course. Oh. Okay.

The fingered. He dropped out to join the army where he served two years in Vietnam as a demolition expert and pilot. He was wounded in action for which he was awarded the Purple Heart in 1964 and was sent home to recuperate. He returned to Brigham Young University where he met his future wife Karen. What a Dan grade from Myrtle? Your mom's Myrtle.

Your wife's Karen. But she didn't. choose their name. But you can choose your wife. Yeah, that's right. And he's chosen Paul. He's chosen Karen. Richard and Karen.

But interesting to note that he was a pilot. Yes. Let me know his few things about planes. Also, the fact that he was a demolition expert and also a pilot. Like, are you demolishing shit with planes? That sounds like... Or demolishing planes. Yeah.

They had way too many planes back then. Oh, I just crash a plane into it. Whatever. That should do it. Riggily goes on. He then agreed to serve another term in the army on the condition that he could go to Vietnam. This time, he was awarded an Army commendation medal for heroism. In 1968, he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for a rescue he flew as a combat helicopter pilot.

Oh, wow. McCoy distinguished himself by exceptionally valorous actions during the early morning hours of the 8th of November, 1967, while serving as a helicopter pilot with the Air Cavalry Troop. Upon hearing that the compound was in the process of being overrun by a large feet Kong force, Warren Officer McCoy volunteered to fly his aircraft to the scene in support of the friendly forces, in spite of poor visibility due to thick ground fog and intermittent cloud layers and a complete lack of tactical maps for the area. Flying by instrumentation and radio alone, McCoy located the compound and came under

automatic weapons and small arms fire. With the position of the compound marked by a flare and the firefight marked by trace arounds, warrant officer McCoy began a series of firing passes, launching rockets directly at the Viet Cong positions until all his ammunition was expended. Due to his courageous fight and highly accurate fire, the enemy was completely routed. When he returned to Utah, he considered a third tour of Vietnam, but his wife refused. He volunteered as a warrant officer in the Utah National Guard and took up skydiving as a hobby. Oh.

He taught Mormon Sunday school and returned to Brigham Young University again, this time to study law enforcement. He told friends that he wished to become an FBI or CIA agent. So he had some relevant skills, but he was like a full-on war hero. Yeah. And wanting to go into some sort of law enforcement and then potentially choosing to commit a big old crime. He zigged. He was a skydiver. Yeah, maybe it was all just a ploy, throw him off the scent.

It couldn't be him. Wow. Sometimes, you know, you learn, like, I think they would know how to get away with crimes better than anyone. People in law enforcement, you'd assume. Yeah, you know, learn from other people's mistakes. Yeah. So he had the necessary skills to pull off the hoist, but his community thought it was very unlikely. According to Time magazine, family, friends and neighbours were incredulous for McCoy hardly seemed the hijacker type.

A quiet family man, father of two, and devout Mormon, McCoy had taught Sunday school. All he ever talked about was sin, recalled one of his students. He's a fine man, insisted his landlord. A classmate at Brigham Young University where McCoy was a senior called him an organized crime freak, who wanted to make his dent on the world by busting crime syndicates. His mother was mystified, old Myrtle. He's been very devoted to his church. She was like, this is just not him.

He's not a hijacker. She said he's not a murderer. And imagine some of that. No one said he was a... Should we be looking in his backyard? Nobody died, Myrtle. What the fuck? You're making it worse.

He's just there like, Mom! I'll tell you what, I'd never do. Murder someone. My boy? He's not a drug importer. He doesn't have a tax? Oh my God, I've said too much. He certainly never fixed a lottery.

The FBI interviewed McCoy, and he denied any involvement or knowledge of the hijacking. He said he was out with his wife for dinner at the time. Karen. I was out with Karen. And he was not detained. But they continued to investigate McCoy. The FBI lab was working on two key pieces of evidence. Firstly, the handwriting expert was comparing the note left on the plane with McCoy's writing on military service records.

And secondly, fingerprint specialists were seeing if they could match the print found on the Inflot magazine with one taken from McCoy during his military service. Oh, dear. Both turned out to be matches. Oh, no. Someone's framed him. Oh my gosh That's unbelievable This guy is dedicated to the church

He wants to work in law enforcement And he's a war hero Come on All he talks about is sin This can't be him This can't be him How dare you frame this man I'm as disgusted as you

I don't think you could Nobody could be more disgusted That you do look disgusted I am green With disgust And envy And envy I want to hijack a play

Let me have a go The FBI also found eyewitnesses. After a motorist reported picking up a hitchhiker wearing a jumpsuit at a roadside hamburger stand outside of Provo, the FBI took a photo there and got a positive ID from an employee who said she'd sold him a milkshate the night of the hijacking around 11 3rd p.m. A celebratory milkshake. Yeah. This guy, yeah, yeah, I sold him a milkshake, remember it.

And he paid in cash. He had like this suitcase full of money. Yeah, she said, she actually said, I remember him. because he said, oh, that's a good, that's a good price for a milkshake. Dude, you just made half a million dollars. Yeah. Slopping tight. That's how people stay wealthy.

Exactly. That's why I'll never be wealthy. No, I was saying it was a good price. I think to him, he's like, oh, all of a sudden, milkshakes are cheap. Yeah. This is a tiny fraction of the money I have now. I've said too much. Oh, no.

Oh, yeah, the guy who gave the, gave him the lift was quick to call up and dobb him in as well. I hope he flung him some petrol money. You carry in half a mill and you don't offer like 10, Come on, mate. You're a dog. He gave him five bucks. Okay, yeah, that's right. Back then.

Back then, that's heaps, actually. It's quite generous. As soon as I said 10, I was like, I've gone crazy. That's far too much. He was a, yeah, he was a teen, and apparently, yeah, couldn't wait to do him. A lot of dobbers in this town. Yeah. Yes.

But he, and he was so open about talking about it, this guy. I would feel like, even if you felt like you had to, because it was the right thing to do, I feel like I would then not be telling anyone that was me. You go, just don't put my name out there. But he's in articles. Yeah, right. With his name. He's like, yeah, it was wild.

Yeah, I just took him for a ride and he told me to take him to his home. And yeah. Yeah, this guy who's got a grenade and a gun prepared to kill people, obviously. Yeah, I'm happy to be in the paper saying that he did this, absolutely. And did you drop him at his home? I believe so, yes. Oh, my God. Or at least near his home.

I met his wife, Karen, which is fantastic. Yeah, went in for a cup. But to be fair, if I had dropped somebody home, I'd never be able to find that house again. No. So. Or like, recognise him. Nah. In the dark?

Photographic memories. Eyes on the road, please. Yeah, come on. Why are you steering your passengers so much? Apparently, he also fingered him in court and, uh... Really? And, uh, yeah. Gosh.

Macoy was... Was that? In public? Apparently while he was fingering him, like, how dare you? Stop fingering me, please. Please. Come on. I gave you five bucks.

You can only wonder if he paid people better. And by the way, this is one of those anonymous lifts, okay? How much, how much for silence? 10, 20 bucks for a silent ride? 20 and you never finger me. Yeah. That's the deal. That's the deal, okay?

According to Rigley, on the 10th, three days after the hijacking, the FBI arrested McCoy at his home on a charge of air piracy. That sounds so badass. Yeah, air pirate. They also had a search warrant for the house where they found $499,970, wrapped in bank bands in a cardboard box. They also took two electric typewriters, which had imprints of the pre-written notes,

a parachute and a harness and a pistol, all as possible evidence. Possible. They had just... Purely coincidental. I mean, everything else they've already got is pretty good. Now they've got all the physical evidence as well. Let's talk about the guy I dobed him in, his mate.

Because without this, he... Yeah, what they've ever known? It feels like it would have been a lot harder without this initial tip. But they, I mean, a lot of other people ID him. Like even the prisoner, they went to that the prisoner's new jail and said, And said, hey, great new pad. Great new pad. Well, I'm here.

Is this the guy? Yeah, that's the guy. Yeah, that's the guy. He was so weird. I remember that freak anywhere. So the friend who dubbed him in was Robert Van Eeperun of the Utah State Highway Patrol, apparently quite good friends with McCool. Speaking to the Suffolk News Herald in May of 1972, Van Iperin said, I feel like hell about it.

Sick. But I also feel like someday somebody's going to blow the hell out of 95 people. If I didn't do something about it, I would have felt bad if one of these hijackings went wrong. This is all from the Virginia Chronicle. Van Eeperan and McCoy were friends. They flew helicopters in the National Guard together. They were recreational skydivers on weekends together. Van Eeperan and his wife.

wife had visited the McCoy's at home three weeks before the hijacking. This is when McCoy outlined a Van Eapron how he'd go about pirating a plane using his own parachute. Great dinner party combo. Oh, God, just shut up. Don't say, this is the big one. You say, if he didn't dogg him in, but if he just kept his mouth shut, no one would have suspected him. No.

And I would say he would have gotten away with it if he just didn't talk about it so much. But this is what Van Eapron said. We were professional pilots and skydivers. It's a conversation piece. We talked about a lot of things concerned with law enforcement. I used to call him up in the afternoon just to wrap. We talked about flying our work and skydiving. You lay down a beat.

Yo, what's up? We talked about... Yeah, well, you know how my rapping starts. Hello, everybody. I'm baby Jess. Is that, that's one of your favorite, famous wraps. Hello tiny baby. Hello tiny baby.

There we go. Then Iperin goes on. We talked about hijacking particularly after a guy in Denver parachuted and broke his leg. So I were talking about a lot. It makes sense. It is sort of their interests. But if you're actually going to do it. That's right.

It's a funny thing to say, oh, this is what I do if I wanted to get away with a crime like that. But you don't then do it a few weeks later. Yeah. Unless, as he's saying it, he goes, this is actually a really. really good proof. I will do it. And I trust this guy. He's one of my very good friends. He's here at my dinner table. There's no way he's fingering me, this guy. No, come on. That's not something a friend would do. Friends don't finger. No. He continues on. When the first reports of the hijacking came in, I didn't think it was Richard.

I called him that night because I thought he might be interested in it. But of course, Richard didn't answer the phone. He was busy, hijacking. Oh. No, he was out for dinner with Karen. Oh, sorry, yes. His sister-in-law, Denise Burns answered instead. And so this is Karen's younger sister. And she sounds like a real character. I like how Burns talks about it all in this conversation. It sounds like she probably dropped Richard in it a bit when Van Eeperen called.

He possibly didn't know how serious it was at all. But this is how she recounted it about a month or so later. Van Eepern called me. Richard had talked to me about it, but I had no idea he'd do it. Richard's a very good person He shouldn't be where he is I've talked too much already That's why I'm leaving

I'm going back home to Canton The US attorney says It's okay for me to leave you see I've pleaded the fifth That's Denise That's Denise That's Denise That's panicking

That's fat Denise is flustered Well I'm going to go I play the fifth Denise are you playing the fifth Are you playing the fifth? I'm so too much

The fifth is not talking right Denise I'm said too much I mean you told me about it I don't go serious. I'm going home. So that means he's also told Denise. Yeah, he's been chatting around the home about things, about the plan and stuff.

Oh, my gosh. Does that mean that is Karen in on it too? Because she's giving him the alibi of, yeah, we were out to dinner. Does she know what was going to happen? Well. There is no Karen. Oh, my gosh. It's McCoy in a wig.

Karen who came out of the toilet. That's a twist. That's a good twist. He doesn't have a wife and kids. He has schizophrenia. Those are all in his head. Yeah, he has costumes and wigs. Wow.

No, yeah, we'll talk a bit about Karen soon, but. But this is Denise's time to shine. Yeah, Denise's gone. She's off. She'll move back to Canton. I played the fifth. He put one in the other one's like, okay, okay. So she's dropped him in a bit to Van Eeper, and he's going, oh, okay.

Right, I just wanted to talk to him about this because it's amazing that someone's done his plan. I thought it would be funny to, can you believe it? And then he's not home, and Denise is like, I've got to go, I'm panicking. Yeah. That's suss. Van Ephrains said if he hadn't pulled the 3 to 11 p.m shift that night, he probably wouldn't have connected McCoy to it. After the reports came in, he had to stay up on duty to set up roadblocks and was up until

about 6 a.m. Oof. Certain clues, plus the conversation with Denise, where she dropped him in it, made him voice his suspicions to the FBI. He'd already talked to them by the time he and McCoy reported to the National Guard for flight duty the morning after the hijacking. Whoa. Really? He had already spoken to him.

Yeah, so he called him while he was on his shift. And the next day, he's like, hey, buddy, where were you last night? I certainly haven't called the FBI and told him that you did it. Yes. Wow. So he's still recounting it. This is still pretty fresh. This is still in 72, talking to a journalist a month or so.

after. I said to myself, you've lost a friend. But he wasn't vengeful when I saw him later. He said, what did you think on me? And I said, I hope I didn't think on you. I hope you didn't do it. I'm not sorry I said anything. If they arrested McCoy and what I told him, it's pretty thin. But he goes beyond friendship. So he's like, he's basically like, I only thinked on you if you, but I don't know if he quite gets what he's saying there, right? Because you dobed him in. Yeah. Either way, whether he did it or not. But he's like, I only dubbed you in if you did it. Yeah. I suppose he's saying there's only consequences for you if you did it.

Yeah, you did that. You're innocent. Sorry about that. Yeah. But he goes on to say how much he respects Richard. He says, I don't think you would ever hear a bad thing about Richard. He's one of the nicest fellows I've known. I've never seen Richard get really mad.

I never heard him swear. I've probably lost his friendship, he said somebody, before asking why. What would make cool, nice Richard McCoy go to the extreme of hijacking? Mm-hmm. And that's a great question. Yeah, it doesn't seem. doesn't seem in character from what we know so far. But I think Matt might have more information to share with us.

That's the end of the report. Wow. Wow, we can speculate if you want us to. So trying to figure out what made this devout Mormon and decorated military vet and Sunday school teacher hijack a plane. Sounds like a big part of it might have been money problems. Gordon Riggily, money was tight. He received $243 a month from the GI Bill,

which is veterans benefits, which wasn't enough to support his wife and kids. The family were in serious financial problems and his marriage began to suffer under the stress of their situation. Karen. His wife, Karen, whose salary was supporting the family, threatened him with divorce, according to Riggily. Unless you hijack a plane.

He's working as well, though, isn't he? He's getting benefits. He's volunteering for that plane thing. Sunday school? Sunday school, I think, volunteer. And the other thing, the... Right. and he's going back to study.

Okay. Oh, like the National Guard thing. Yeah, the National Guard, I think is volunteer. Oh, okay. That's baffling, especially because they're flying helicopters and stuff. You think you should be paid for that. Yeah, you're paid properly. You shouldn't be a volunteer helicopter pilot.

You should be paid for that skill set. Yeah, do we have any volunteers? Oh, I'll give it a crack. That's interesting. Yeah, I mean, if what I'm saying is true. But it doesn't, yeah. Oh. I mean, I don't know why I'm defending.

I'm not in that marriage. But it just sort of feels like he's not sitting around all day doing nothing. And he's studying to do the law enforcement stuff, you know? There's a lot of conjecture about what was happening in their relationship as well. Like, who would know? Who would know other than them? Exactly. So I think as much as I respect Riggily for her piloting and journalism, she wasn't there. She wasn't sharing that bad.

Could have been a lot of reasons why Karen, you know, could have been ongoing conversations for 10 years and she's like, oh, come on, you know. I'm at my wits end. We don't know. I love Karen. I'll do anything to keep her. Karen. So he convinced Karen to give him 500 bucks in order to carry out the plan.

He needed money for flights, guns and a disguise. A very good disguise. So she's funding it. Oh no, Karen. Karen. Karen, Karen. Kaz, baby. But according to Riggily, she later said that she didn't think he would actually do it.

Then why'd you give him $500? She's like, oh, I'll let him have his fun. I'll let him go to the costume shop, run wild. And then I'll divorce him. She also bought him a parachute and typed up his list of instructions for the pilots before driving him to Salt Lake International Airport. Oh, my gosh. She's really helped him.

That's too much, Karen. Too much. She's taken the mental labour of this task that he's trying to. I don't trust you to do this. I'll do it. Yeah. And that's part of the problem, isn't it? Yeah.

You're not going to do it properly. I'll have to do it myself. Yeah, Karen, you've got to let go a little. It was a 50-mile drive to the airport, and they argued the entire way. She left him at the airport still not believing that he would actually go through with it. But of course, he did. He flew to Denver buying his tickets with cash and using the alias James Johnson. He then booked himself onto flight 855.

The fact that it was a Boeing 727 was an important detail, because this was the same aircraft type as the DB Cooper one. They had the same rear set of stairs built that were able to be lowered while in the same. the air, Cooper had used these to exit his flight and McCoy did the same. Though unlike Cooper, McCoy was able to lower the stairs himself without help from the crew. So maybe it's because he is DB Cooper and he learnt the first time around. And now we know there. That's what some people say. Whoa. Others say he just, he just knew how to do it. That makes you think, though, doesn't it? Does make you think. Makes me think. He was obviously a bit nervy as he left his hijacking envelope in the airport. Luckily, of course, it was.

was returned to him by the helpful stuff there. Oh, you're going to give that, Stuart, five stars in the review. There's a bullet and a pin in there. You're like, I guess you'd have no idea what it is. Like, maybe it's jewelry or something. Unless it says hijacking instructions on it. Then you might have some sort of clue. And we know the story from here.

He went into the toilet, spent way too long in there jacking it and putting on some makeup and a wig. So let's move up to when it was time to jump. He struggled with the way to the cat. I think we know from DB Cooper he really struggled with his part. They sabotaged him a bit by pulling the zips off DB Cooper's bags, and he had to improvise a bit, and we know that maybe he lost some of that money jumping.

And this is two and a half times that amount, though, isn't it? It's even more. It's even more money, but he cleverly asked for bigger denominations, $100 bills, meaning it was the same weight. Do you have a $500,000 bill? I would ask for just, just transfer me. Here's my details. He's my BSB an account number.

Yeah, just bring one of those little bippers. Yeah, bring a little bipper. Just a little one that they can tap. And then, like, there's no change to the weight. Yeah, I'd hook it up to an offshore account and just get them to tap. I'd just give my A&Z account. Yeah, transfer it. How old?

Oh, I think they're pretty good. There's so many accounts. I can't find your one. My name is... Have you seen your account number? It's like seven digits long. So long. How are they going to find that?

How are they going to find that? Take your ages. And I've got a super common name. Yeah. That helps. Whatever. Mertil Perkins. Mertil Perkins.

Mertl Perkins is so good. If you ever have another dog, can you call it Mertl Perkins? Yeah, big time. Because our current dog... It's got the wrong surname. That's right. So the next one has to have Perkins. Agreed.

Mirdle. Oh, imagine. Imagine a little French bulldog named Murtle. I can and I love it. Holy shit. That would be cute. I'm picturing it, and the picture is good. I'm imagining it wearing a little tartan neckerchief.

Oh. A fancy little dog. as the people wearing tartan often saying. Well, have you a Mary Queen of Scots? Yes, we, we, we. Oh, my God. So he's, unlike Cooper, he's able to get all the money into a bag he brought especially. So there's a bunch of things.

People say he did it. He wasn't as clean as DB Cooper, but there were a bunch of things he did better than DB Cooper. So able to lower the stairs himself, he figured out the money better. He chose $100 bills rather than $20s or whatever DB Cooper. be used. But hundreds are more, they're heavier than a 20. Yes. So, you know, it all works out. It's pretty heavy. So he was struggling with the weight, but eventually he made it out, though he didn't nail his landing spot. So his wife Karen wasn't there to pick him up as planned. Time magazine suggests that McCoy might have got away with it if he had not in effect

used the hijack to hitchhike home. He's basically, he's dropped himself quite close to home as well. So people thinking about it like, huh, just in our neighborhood? Oh, actually, I know a guy who talks about hijacking planes. You know what I mean? Like if he did it somewhere else when he was away on a work trip or a holiday or something. But he basically landed at home. He was pretty close to home, you know. He's like, you're right above my house, 139, Erickson Street.

Right now. Yeah, perhaps Van Iper and his mate wouldn't have been able to put two and two together if it hadn't happened so close to home. Yeah. He certainly wouldn't have put two and two together if he hadn't fully outlined his plan to him in the leader. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that does seem like the big mistake. Interesting, yes.

Anyway, McCoy's now landed in a paddock many, many kilometers from home, and he's on foot. The weight of the cash was so heavy, he had to leave it behind. Oh. He stashed it by the side of a road and a bit of a hidey hole, as well as the parachute. When he eventually came past the roadside burger joint, he happily bought that milkshake. he then found the driver who took him in a town. That's probably where the 30 bucks it was missing from the 500 ground. He took 30 bucks with him to get back to town.

That's why he could only afford a milkshake. And that's why he said, that is a good price. I can afford that. Oh, thank God. Yeah, I'll have a milkshake. When he finally got home late at night, his sister-in-law, loose-lips Denise. Denise.

And she noticed his dirty boots. She's like, huh. So this is probably something she may be mentioned in the phone call if that happened later. Why was she there? She's staying at a sister's place. Later at around 3 a.m., he and Karen drove back to pick up the cash. It's a long day for him. That's a long day?

Long, long day. I think he's been up for, you know, full 24 hours stressing out the whole time. Yeah. They left the parachute behind, though, and I think this is the one that the kid found later. Why did they do that? Yeah, I don't know. I guess they were like, it's one bit of evidence we don't have to get rid of, but you're leaving evidence. Yeah, on the side of a road.

I guess it's also, it's, I don't know what the DNA stuff was like, but it wasn't, It wasn't really happening back then, was it? No, but still, like, they would know the parachute, and then they would know, oh, he landed in this area. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're just giving them a clue, but he'd given them so many already. Yeah, yeah, he's like, I've already basically admitted it. I'll just leave it.

When they got the cash home, it didn't all fit in the hole in the backyard he'd prepared, so a lot of it ended up in a cardboard box inside their wardrobe. Then exhausted, McCoy went to be. Fair enough. Yeah. I reckon he had a bit of a half. It's enough for a big day. He didn't sleep that long, though, only a few hours before he was up for his volunteer shift at the Utah Air National Guard with his old, with his mate.

Amazingly, according to Rigley, during the shift, he flew one of the helicopters involved in the search for himself. Whoa. Not surprisingly, he didn't find him. Oh, I think, I reckon he'd be over there. Like, flying away from the burger shop. Isn't that? I found that incredible. You get a good price milkshake down there. Was that? Nothing.

I've never been. When he was taken into custody, rather than calling a lawyer, he called Karen, telling her to take care of everything. Karen, baby. Take care of everything. Yeah, he was winking. And she's like, I can't see you winking. He was like, well, how do you know I'm winking then? I'm guessing.

I've known you a long time. You're my soul, mate. So basically he's going. Karen wants a divorce from her soulmate? I don't think so, mate. I don't think so, come on. So he's basically going, please get rid of all the evidence. Because I've got a lot of it in our house.

But she's sort of taking it as like a passive-aggressive thing. She's like, yes, I've already got dinner on. Yeah. And the washing and the kids. I already look after the kids, Richard. Where was last time you lifted a fucking finger on the house, Richard? I've just hijacked a plane. I mean, nothing.

He's yelling it out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry if I'm working my ass off to steal 500 grand from the government for you. Because I love you, Karen. So he's like, please get rid of the evidence. But it was broad daylight, and she knew the house was under surveillance. Like, the FBI were out the front. They weren't being subtle about it.

So she's like, oh, what do I do? Okay, here's what you do. Can I guess? You put a coconut on top. What does she got to hide? Is there a parachute? No. She doesn't have a parachute.

There is a spare parachute? Okay, great. So the parachute, put a coconut on top, smiley face on it. That's your son. Okay. Now you carry that out to the car. I'm taking my son to the park. Okay.

You take... What a big box of cash? Yes. Toys. That's my son's box of toys We play at the park with a box of toys The typewriters They typed out the notes

There's as my daughter It's my daughter typewriters That's my daughter QWERty My son parachute Pete and my daughter QWERty Are you still Karen? Yes Deemly in character here

I'll put him off the sand I know what different sent She decided that Karen's got weak blood. She's had two kids, Dave. Apparently she'd bein' quitting. It felt like pushing out of coconut, honestly. Okay, now I see how we've done 400 episodes. Okay, sorry, how did she actually do it?

Or did she do it? I mean, it was similar, but not quite as ingenious. It sounds like in the end, she's like, like basically she couldn't do anything. I'd set fire to it. Oh, yeah, that was... So far to the whole house. Yeah. Oh, oh.

You've got $500,000 now. Yeah. She basically, it sounds like, she put all the most incriminating stuff into a box. On his side of the cup. And lame would it? Richard's stuff. Richard's stuff. Keep out.

Karen has never seen any of this before. And she just basically piled other junk on top of it. Oh, foolproof. So when the FBI came on the Death in the West podcast, I think, They had a clip of one of the guys who found it talking about. He's like, yeah, I was just saw him through this jungle and I'm like, holy shit, this is everything I need. She was like, hey, guys, come in here.

They wouldn't be impolite and go through my stuff. Yeah. It's just what you can see immediately without touching anything. Oh my God, I've never seen that box of $499,930 in my entire life. That's crazy. If she's like all the moms I knew from my childhood, she probably said, oh, excuse the mess. And the house would have been immaculate. Absolutely perfect.

Oh, I'm so embarrassed. I didn't know people were coming. It's like, well, you invited us, and there's not a speck of dust. So on April 9th, a federal complaint was filed charging McCoy with aircraft piracy and interfering with flight crew members. A federal grand jury in Salt Lake City indicted McCoy on April the 14th. Two months later, McCoy found to have acted alone was tried in the US District Court and found guilty despite his claim of innocence.

So that's the key. Karen was not involved. Yeah, found to be acting alone. But also, all the evidence is like piled up in your cupboard and you're still pleading innocent. Yeah. Come on. Multiple people have eyewitnessed you. You've been fingered.

Yeah. Just plead guilty. Brother, take the deal. Yeah. Come on. Honestly. He's been fingered by so many people. It's basically being fisted now.

Yeah. Five fingering. That's a fist. That's a fist. So yeah, he could get The maximum penalty for these charges Was death What?

Oh, brother, take the deal So I'm just trying to rap with him Like he's made it No, totally And I love that you're trying to get brother going I think it really works I think it's very cool from you I support it

Yeah, it feels comfortable in your mouth Honestly though If it's like If you're a lawyer I'm not a lawyer But surely you'd be saying You could be put to... You're certainly not one of those big city lawyers.

No. I'm not one of your fancy docking lawyers. Your honor! If there's a chance you're going to be put to death, you're obviously going to be found guilty, dude. Oh, brother. Do you can say dude? Dude's good.

Yeah, you can say dude. Luckily, for him, he was sentenced to just 45 years in prison. So they went pretty hard. They didn't go all the way to death. It sounds like there was another case at another, somewhere else in the country that, meant the death penalty was a lot less likely and a different precedent had been set. Right, but 45 years, that is a long sentence.

That's the rest of his life. For a 29-year-old in 1972, that is a life sentence. Yeah, yeah. But if you still have, he'd be out now. So, wow. Just saying. He appealed the decision to the US Supreme Court, which denied his petition on October the 9th, 1973.

So, yeah, it's basically a life sentence, but it wasn't the death penalty, which you'd be like, oh, that's a blessing, I guess. But he didn't see it that way. an interview with the journal news that year, he suggested he prefer the death penalty rather than spending his life in jail. He said it at least should be my choice. If I'm getting life in prison, I should be able to opt in for death penalty, which is wild. Interesting take. Yeah. But it suggests that he would do pretty much anything to not spend his life in prison. And that sentiment would prove insightful as it wasn't long before he

tried to break out. This story is not done. Oh my God. That's right. Our war hero turned Mormon teacher turned plane hijacker was moving on to another chapter in his life, prison breaker. Oh, my God. Is this some sort of alternative reality where he was also the other guy on the plane who had been arrested for breaking out of prison? Holy shit. It's a loop.

Oh, my God. The space time continuum is collapsing on itself. Brother? Oh, my God. This is awesome. So he was in a Denver prison, and his method was pretty opportunistic. fair to say. A fellow inmate was due for a trip to the courthouse and McCoy somehow convinced him

to let him take his place. Let's switch. Can I be you? I'll be you for this one. Okay. And will you be me or? Yeah. You just stay. I'm going to go. And I don't know how we convinced him, but he did. Obviously the guards didn't take a lot of notice of who was who because they said, who's, who's, who's Gregson. Hey, I'm Gregson. All right, Gregson. All right, Gregson with us. But he's also a master of disguise as we know. That's true. Yeah. Absolutely master. Yeah. He's the Dana Carver. of his generation. 20 minutes in any toilet. He's a turtily turtle.

I'm turtle heading here in the toilet. Once collected, he told the guard, funnily enough, this is a motorist operandi. He was busting for the toilet. Yep. So he went into the toilet. They're like, all right, no worries. You know, he's whistling outside. A little bit of a rustling in there.

What's going on? He found a way to scrape through a small window, and he legged it. Okay. But he did not get very far before he was tackled to the ground. He was then moved to a much tougher prison in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. Oh my God. This is backfired. Prison's awful.

I can't stand it. Well, how about an even worse prison? Lewisburg is said to have had an awful culture of torture and violence with inmates. A prison. A prison was a bad culture. A bad culture for a prison. Whoa. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Apparently it was thirked. Um, inmates there during the six and 70s included a few big names such as Whitey Bulger, John Gotti and Jimmy Hoffer. Right, mob guys. Yeah, a lot of big mob guys. So yeah, it feels like a... And why do we put all the blame on a toxic culture in a prison on the prisoners?

Because it really, it trickles down from the top. I don't blame them. That warden. Yeah. Is not doing their job. They're crusty old warden. You know? Yeah.

Hmm. It needs to loosen up, you know? Have some fun. Paint some colour. on the walls. Maybe spike the punch bowl. Party down, brother. Okay, I'm taking it.

I'm holding to this. No, I'm taking it off him. You can have dude, but brother's got to go. Serves up, dude. That's better. That's better. Okay. Once there at his new prison in Lewisburg, it didn't take him long to start planning

another escape. This time he put a bit more thought into it. Rather than I'll leg it out of window. No bad. He started working with two others for the scheme. Larry L. Bagley, a 36-year-old from Iowa, who was serving 20 years, and Melvin D. Walker, 35, from Mawley, Missouri, who was serving 55 years. Wow.

Later in the planning, quite late in the planning, they were joined by a third man, Joseph Havel, who was a six-year-old from Philadelphia, who was serving 10 years. These three were all in there for bank robbing and third. theft type charges. I believe Walker had already broken out a few times before. They would meet regularly on Saturdays, ostensibly to hang out in the yard. Apparently, there was like a little cafeteria or something, and Karen would often visit, and she'd bring cash for him, and they'd buy ice creams on Saturday mornings and go out

into the exercise yard. Wow. I'm picturing like a little convenience store or a milk bar. I like you said, terrible culture. Awesome. A nightmare of a place this one. They're meeting for ice cream on Saturday. Before they even had breakfast.

You can't do that. We're having bubble bills. Oh, they're force feeding them ice cream. Karen, who wanted a divorce, is still bankrolling this guy. Yeah. She was like, I just need you to get a job. I can't run the house and be the breadwinner. It's too much for me.

And he's like, I got it towards, so he goes to prison forever. And she's still got to come and bring him his ice cream money. But he's like, I don't even pay rent in here, guys, okay? I'm saving us money, babe. saving a fortune over the next 45 years. So this part of the story is told in Death in the West, the podcast. And yeah, he said that they'd be meeting basically with a bag of ice creams sitting in the yard just to make the guards think, oh, this is just their routine.

They sit out there with their bag and they eat ice creams on Saturday mornings, right? But apparently they'd also, as well as eating the ice creams, they'd do exercise. They'd run laps to try and get fit for the big escape. Whilst eating ice cream. Whilst eating ice cream. That's a terrible idea. It just sounds like footy in the 80s, you know? I want to throw up just hearing that.

Cigarettes and meat pies at half time. Yeah. Yeah, but that does not sound good. Another thing they were doing there, so they're basically in part just trying to lull the guards in a false sense of security. This is what they do on Saturday morning. This is their little routine. They sit around. Slowly like introducing like, you know, have an ice cream.

One of them's got a grappling hook. It's just their routine. It's fine. It's whatever. They're having their ice cream, that guy's got his grappling hook, that one has my gun. That's fine. That's fine. They've done the last 10 Saturdays, don't we're going to.

They're having a nice time. And you know what? Like, it's tough being in prison. Give them a little bit of, give them a break. It's Saturday, for God's sake. Let's see where they go with it. Yeah. It's a bit like, you know, it's a parenting style I'm reading up on.

This is the guard. You know, like letting your kids do dangerous things safely as they figure it out, you know? That's how they learn. Carefully. They're doing it carefully. Off they go. They're not hurting anybody with the crappling hook, leave me. So, yes, shenanigans were afoot, basically. While there, it's no coincidence they pick Saturday mornings as well. They also observe the weekly garbage collection routine.

Happen each Saturday morning, it would happen like clockwork. So they're just sussing it out. No, they were just eating ice creams having fun, but they're really just, they're focusing on what's happening with this garbage truck. Wow. It's manned by one of the inmates is one of the drivers And then there's a guard on the other side In the meantime, McCoy stole dental paste

From the prison's dental office Which I think he was working in What did he steal, sorry? Dental paste, which I... Okay, gotcha. I don't fully know what that means, But it sounds like it's some sort of a waxy substance Like he got a block of it

And he worked with Walker to apparently Walker's quite an artist and he was able to make a very realistic mould of a gun, like down to the small details. Right. And then they used that mould to make a plaster of Paris replica pistol. So they had made a fake gun. They spent a lot of time then perfecting the paint colour to get it looking as realistic as possible.

And they'd also accumulated a bunch of knives at the time. They also had a bag of knives. They got their bag of my scroo they got their bag of. They're happy boys. They give me no trouble on a sudden morning. Karen is still regularly visiting. She's bringing cash each time, you know, 20, 30 bucks at a time, whatever. Are you kidding me?

Did she keep, was the loot all returned? Did she keep any of it? This deadbeat, that's just now her money. Yeah, she's just, this is just from her job. Karen. She, as well as bringing cash, she's also bringing information about, you know, different things they're asking about. Like, what does the outside of the front gate look like?

What's the security like? Is there an extra barrier, these sort of things? things. Right on. She's even taking photos and just bringing that information into them. Bringing a photo sliding it across the table. There's a map of the prison. And one of the guards finds it says, sorry, this says, uh, escape plot. Is anyone missing this? Ah, that's mine, yes. That's mine. Thank you. My wife, or that, it's pictures of my children. Little escape plot, little coyote. And don't forget, parachute Pete. He's my favorite. Don't tell the others. Don't tell coyote.

She's jealous Then the big day arrived August the 10th 1974 So a couple of years after his hijacking I like he's a go-getter He makes shit happen He really

He's always doing something isn't he Using the fake gun and the knives The four men commandeered the jail's garbage truck Bagley was behind the wheel And he was able to drive the truck With enough speed to smash through the main gate And escape to the outside world Wow

Got through the yeah It's a federal penitentiary It's medium security, but it's still, you know, pretty secure. And they just smashed their way out of there. They were fired upon from above, but veered onto a dirt road Karen had told them about and were able to get away, being shielded by these corn crops that had been...

Oh, fantastic. According to a New York Times report from the following day, 16 miles from the maximum... Oh, I just said it was medium security. I think it was a medium security. Maybe it was maximum at the time. Because if Jimmy Hoffer and that are there... I was going to say pretty maximum.

It seems like it's medium security now, but I mean, this New York Times report was from the time. Yeah. From the New York time. And it says 16 miles from the maximum security prison, they abandoned the truck and commandeered a car containing a man and two women whom they left on the roadside bound but unharmed. And then they disappeared into the central Pennsylvania mountains. Apparently, according to Death in the West podcast, the man was quite an old fellow who they stole the car from. And while the others were going around, just of rummaging around looking for more weapons, McCoy was like, are you all right?

Are you on medicine or anything? And he's like, yeah, I'll have heart medicine. So he gave him his heart medicine before leaving. It was like, yeah, that's nice. He's a good man deep down. Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah.

Brother. You know what I mean, brother? Hey, I won't say it, but you can't. I make this look good. The New York Times article also says the state police, sheriffs, deputies, and agents of the FBI, aided by dogs and helicopters, searched the mountains within a 20-mile radius of the prison at Lewisburg. The state police said, we feel they are still in the area. There are a lot of hunters' cabins in there.

It's a big game area. We'll find them. Wow, they're hunting them now. Yes. So Havel, Bagley and Walker, were all convicted bank robbers, and it seemed that they wanted to go back to their old ways. And McCoy's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I want to rob a plane.

Okay? I'm a plane guy, okay? You ground robbers, go nuts. Yeah. But I'd do it up in the sky. I look down on you, boys. Scum. According to death in the West,

just three days after their escape, they robbed a bank near Cove City, North Carolina, getting away with 10 grand. This was the first in a series of heists. Wow. So McCoy can now add bank robber to his impressive CV. Okay. I suppose he's like, I'm never getting out of jail, am I?

May as well. On their getaway from this bank ice, they were spotted by a police helicopter and started to be tracked. They were cornered. And apparently from the helicopter, they saw all four car doors open and they sort of scattered in different directions. But it sounds like McCoy was the one to start just shooting at the plane. Okay.

It's interesting. Unfortunately, for Havel and Bagley, their time on the run was short and they were recaptured. But Walker and McCoy had a bit more luck, and they alluded police, at least for a while. As historic utah.net writes, speculation in the press was that McCoy had hidden in a swamp near his hometown where he'd spent time as a young man. It seems they may have lived off money taken in further bank robberies, including one in Marysville, Tennessee, and before long, they found themselves on the FBI's 10 most wanted list.

He wanted to work at the FBI. Yeah. So I get, yeah, would he be happy? He's sort of involved. Yeah, he's kind of, he's got something to do. with the FBI. Yeah, this is a way to get like the big dogs, like the director to directly notice you. Yeah, that's true.

That's true. You don't get that icon, you know, when you're starting out as a baby agent. This is great networking. Isn't this like, you know, how hackers will hack a big company just say, employ me, I'll stop this from happening. Yeah, I'm the best. Yeah. So I think it's not a bad idea.

Let's see how it turns out. This report may end with McCoy heading the FBI. I mean, it's a great name to head the FBI. Yeah, yeah. Agent McCoy, Commander McCoy. Director McCoy. President McCoy? Is there a reason?

That name really wronged about when he said it. I was like, McCoy, like the president. Yeah, like the current president of America. Right? Is that right? Am I remembering that right? Yeah, they changed the thing and you could have like multiple. It's not just two terms anymore.

Yeah, they went 45 years in prison or 45 years as president. Yeah. And he went, I'll take the president. I'll take the president. Good call. So the two remaining fugitives found their way to Virginia Beach in Virginia. they're just going all around America. That's a long way away, isn't it?

Yeah, that's right up in the northeast. I mean, they were from, they escaped Pennsylvania. Right, but didn't they get down to Tennessee for a bit? Oh, yeah, that's right. So they are down south and they're up northeast. Bloody hell. A beautiful road trip. Getting some miles.

And they now have a lot of cash. They've been Robin Banks along the way, apparently. And they're living it up with their ill-gotten gains, decking out the house they're renting with funky 70s artwork rugs, and vases. They're just like, we got cash. Let's throw a little bit of it around.

Let's decorate. Got into death in the West, McCoy was even in contact with his family back home, giving his daughter a horse as a present. Hey, there you go, Quirty. Gave her a horse. Gave her a horse. How about a hug?

How about a dad? Yeah, horse dad. I bought you a new dad. It's a horse. Do your homework. I love you. I love you. I'm a horse dad.

Nah, they stink. Dads. Dads. Walker and McCoy had worked up a system. They were still being, I mean, they weren't being as vigilant as maybe they had been. They're starting to go out and buying stuff. They're throwing their money around a little bit more.

They worked up a system trying to stay vigilant against anyone tracking them. Whenever they went out on their return home, one would get out at the end of the street in jogging gear while the other remained in the car. And they'd sort of just pretend to be jogging along the footpath or the sidewalk. And they'd jog up to the house, basically making sure the coast was clear while the one in the car would do a few blocks and just make sure nothing sucks was going on. So this is their system. They'd take it in turns who was in the car and who was jogging. On this occasion, November the 9th, 974, McCoy was the one on foot. He jogged up to the house.

Apparently he was pretty knackard. They were, they were planning on moving on, like, soon after this. And there was maybe even an argument like, can't you be the jogger this style? I don't want to be the jogger. But anyway, McCoy, it was his turn. So he jogs up to the house only to find three FBI agents with their guns drawn. And they are very impressed with him and want to offer him a job as the director of the FBI. Just sign here.

They were on the trail thanks to another tip-off. Seems like it's from an unknown source. The horse. Some have suggested it's Karen, but that seems ridiculous. She's been helping him out so much. Why would she all of a sudden? Where's my horse, she says? Or it could be like the people that have sold them like thousands of dollars of rugs and Ming vases or whatever they were pimping out their rental with.

They're still like sort of being connected to their old life. So if they were, and you'd assume the FBI would be watching Karen and the family. Yeah. Where's this horse from? See the horse get delivered. Yeah. They'd probably be able to track it back. So the FBI agents, Nick O'Hara, Kevin McPartland and Gerald Hoolahan had staked out the house for a few days before making their move.

When Walker and McCoy headed out, they broke in and waited for their return. It's so funny, they watch them leave and go, we'll get them when they get back. Yeah. We could get a, I don't know, like, what if they just left for good then? When McCoy entered the house, the agents called from to surrender, but he instead drew his gun and fired a shot. Wow. The agents returned fire wounding McCoy. Walker heard the shots and sped away, but was caught and arrested soon after a car chase.

Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. died from the gunshot wound. He was 31 years old. Wow, he went down in a blaze of fire. As you know, Dave, especially back researching D.B. Cooper, there's so many conspiracy theories. There's a whole subculture that are obsessed with it. People, there are theories that, like wild theories that Karen worked with the FBI to kill her, husband and like any sort of theory you could think of. Wow. It's out there. There's theories that he never shot first. You know, they,

they killed him and then. Oh, who shot first? There you go. Yeah. He is one of the main ones that comes up still when people talk about D.B. Cooper. There's so many. I think apparently there's been hundreds of people who have admitted to being D.B. Like on their deathbed and stuff. Yeah. And the FBI look into it and they're like, that isn't possible. You weren't born yet. Yeah. Which is interesting because I am D.K. Finally. That feels good, a bit of closure. Nice way to finish the episode.

Oh, it's very cathartic. I thought I'd talk a little bit. There's this book called D.B. Cooper, the real McCoy, which was written in the early 90s by an ex-FBI agent. And it's all about how McCoy is Cooper, obviously. Sounds like they've got the title and worked back, and I love it. I salute that. Me too.

Probably the main thing that makes people think it could be him is that he looks quite a lot like the DB Cooper sketch. Oh, okay. Let's see. I should have had this ready. Matt will bring up an image. I'm sure we'll be posting an image on our social media this week. You can follow us at Do Go On Pod on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.

So there's the DB Cooper one. And there's Richard McGoagher. Oh, wow. Yeah, that does seem. Have you put a pair of sunglasses on this guy? Absolutely. Yeah. So that's, I think that's one of the big things.

One of the, I mean, there's a bunch of people on either side of this. It feels like everyone supports one guy, no, it can't be him because it's my guy, you know? But also, how is that guy only like 30? Yeah, that's wild, right? He's 29 there. But, um, wow. And that's the other thing. D.B. Cooper was thought to be like in his 40s or 50s.

So I thought he was much older than that, but maybe he's just. So people who say that are like, well, that doesn't make sense at all that. And, and D.B. Cooper is slightly taller. All these sort of things as well. Um, so some people. like it was definitely him because he looks like him, but also his M.O. was almost identical. Yeah. But others will say, no, that's because he was a copycat. He studied it. Yes. And he, that doesn't mean he's the same guy. Very famous at the time. So people, a lot of people knew about it.

Yeah. Here's a little bit of an article from crime library that breaks down a little bit of the real McCoy, DB Cooper argument by ex-fbi-agent Russell Calame. His theory was based on the similar methods of the hijackings, as well as the skinny black tie with a mother of pearl clasp that Cooper left on the plane. If you recall that, that was like the only bit of evidence they really had, the physical bit of evidence. The tie apparently was like those worn by McCoy and other male Brigham Young students, and McCoy owned a mother of pearl clasp identical to the one left behind by Cooper. There's suggestions that his in-laws saw the tie. I'm like, oh, you got Richard's tie. Like, that's D.B. Cooper's tie, you know? Oh, well,

Oh. But another thing that's come out in the last year, Richard McCoy's two kids have come out since Karen died a couple of years ago and said, we can finally say our dad was D.B. Cooper. But they were so young at the time. They were like four and six or something. Okay.

So, but they're like it was, they've come out in this weird YouTube video saying that. Did you watch the video? I was just wondering how believable, you know, if you're like, are you just loving the limelight here or? Oh, no. I mean, I've heard the audio of it. It sounds like it could be true, but it also sounds like it's very similar to the arguments

made by claim in his book. Right. So maybe they've, it's just sort of seeped in or something. The book feels a bit like confirmation bias. Yeah. In a lot of ways. He had the same kind of tie? Yes, cool.

So does everybody else at that school? On death at the West, they're also like, I mean, it can't even be guaranteed that that was DB Cooper's tie. And if it was, did he, you know, did he just buy it from a. an op shop that day as part of a disguise or like there's no. Yeah. Also, D.B. Cooper was thought to be a heavy drinker and smoker because on the flight he was doing those things. Whereas McCoy is a teetotaler, non-smoker.

Yeah. And then others will say, yeah, D.B. Cooper could have been putting it on to put people off the scent, you know? Right, but he didn't do that the second time. It's also thought that he couldn't have possibly been there when D.B. Cooper was because he was meant to be somewhere else. But the kids say, no, no, that's not true where they thought he was. He was actually, he could have been there.

He was, and there's a call, there's all these little bits and pieces. Like there's a collect call to McCoy's house from Vegas when they thought maybe that's when D.B. Cooper would have been laundering his money at the casino. Okay. It's all very complex, but people have spent a lot of time on it, but it all feels like it. To me, it feels maybe unlikely, but I have no fucking idea, of course, at the same time. He's a guy who loves talking about his own hijacking, right? why would he never have come clean himself about the DB Cooper one.

Yeah, it's interesting to say, he said to his mate, if I ever did a hijacking, I'd do this. It's like, well, didn't you just do one two months ago? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. He was asked one time point blank if he did it and he said, I don't want to talk to you about it. That's not a yes or a no. That's not a yes or a no. Yes, and also, wasn't he, his marriage was having trouble because he didn't have any money or whatever, but he was pre- the theory is that he lost all that money, DB Cooper lost all that money.

Yeah. Apart from a small amount that he, remember, he tried to give money to the staff on the plane. They wouldn't accept it. So he just shoved that in his pockets. So the theory is that all the money he landed with was the stuff in his pockets. He lost all the bags of it. So he had a few grand. And apparently around that time, McCoy bought a few things.

So that was that little bit of money he had. But then he ran out and he needed another big job. How interesting. It's all very clumsy and, but it's all fascinating as well, I think. So, yeah, there's people who've. fully believe it. Rigley on the other hand says, personally, I think it's unlikely. His hijack was not as well executed and I suspect it is more likely to have been a copycat. But his story is nevertheless fascinating. Even for what we know he definitely did do, that is fascinating.

Isn't it? It's wild that he has fallen into the shadow of DB Cooper. I guess he doesn't have the mystery of DB Cooper. But what he did is quite a wild story in itself and it's basically being forgotten. Yeah, absolutely. I've never heard of that, but that was an incredible. incredible story. I've got to ask, did Karen ever get in trouble for aiding and abetting her husband? She sued the authors of that book. Right. That said her husband was D.B. Cooper, because in it, it said some pretty messed up things about her, and she sued over that. But in the process of that case, she had to admit that she was involved. So she admitted she was involved, didn't get in trouble for it, but it's on the record that she was involved. But yeah, that book was still allowed

to be published. There was settlements made. I think she was paid out because there were accusations in that book that she helped the FBI kill her husband and stuff like that. Some of those pretty messed up theories are in there. And yeah, the other thing was that the judge said, he's like, how could anything in this book be worse than you admitting to being involved in this hijacking? But she must have been like, what about the thing saying that I killed my husband?

I think that's worse. Yeah. But yeah. So the other thing that came out of that was that a movie deal. couldn't be solved. The rights of the book couldn't be sold for a movie deal unless it excluded some of those real crook things about her. But anyway, she lived a pretty long life.

She only died in, I think, 2020. Right, and never had to go to jail for any of the aiding and abetting or anything like that. Yeah, exactly. There you go. Karen. Well, how about Denise? Was she just panicking the rest of her life? She panicked all the way to the grave.

Poor Denise. I'll plead the fifth. Just asking what coffee you'd like. Yeah. I played the fifth option. I'm milk, oh damn. I'll take it, but nah. I'll hate it, but I'll take it.

That was a great report. Fantastic story. Well, Todd, loved it. Well, that brings this to everyone's favorite section of the show where we thank and love out loud some of our fantastic supporters. And if you want to be one of these supporters,

you can go to Patreon.com slash do go on pod. These are the people that keep the show running. They keep the lights on and the record button red. The first thing we like to do is thank a few people. There's a bunch of different reward you can get on different levels, bonus episodes,

voting of topics. You get to be in the nicer corner of the internet on our Facebook group, all those sorts of things. The first thing we like to do is the Sydney-Shaunberg level supporters or above get to give us a fact-quota question in a section that we call

fact-quote a question that has a jingle to go something like this. Fact quote or quiz. He always remembers the ding. She always remembers the jing. And the vibrato. And the vibrara. So the way this one works is our great supporters on the Cindy Schaenberg level.

Give us a fact, quote, question, brag, suggestion, anything they like. They also get to give themselves a title. I don't read them out until I read them out. And that's just me excusing myself for poor pronunciation. The first one comes from Kate Hopner, who's given herself the title. of Assistant Director of Panicking. It's good to have an assistant for you, Jess. Yeah, love that.

God, I was doing too much. It's taken off your plate. It's taking up to delegate a bit. And Kate's asking a question writing, I just learnt that thank good you here is making a return. Yeah. I remember you guys reminiscing about it some time ago and wondered if any of you would entertain the idea of being a guest.

I cringe to think of who they might bring out of the woodwork to do it, but I hope they bring in some new. especially from the stupid old verse. Matt could put those improv classes to use. I'd do it. I mean, I don't know if this is surprising, but yes, I would do a big... Network show.

Network comedy show. Yeah. Bravely, he would do it. I will be the new host of who wants to be a millionaire. Very much like that you're asking that, like, I have the saying it, Kate. Yeah. But I would...

Cringe to think who they're going to bring out. Well, Sylvie Picole is hosting it? Is she? Oh, sick. That's been announced. That's not a bit of goss that I have that I shouldn't be announcing. And did she have to kill Shane Gould for that? Not shame Gould.

Shane Bourne. Shane Bourne. Yeah. Because there was a mix-up. Gould went first, sadly. Yeah, very upsetting. Would I do it? We're a bit busy.

Yeah, of course. But they're not knocking on our door, Kate. I'm so sorry. Really, they didn't knock on your door? Because I've already knocked them back. It was a no for me. I would like. to think there'd be people from our circles who'll be involved though definitely jess is nodding i don't

know if she's allowed to say i'm not i'm not i haven't said or intimated anything that's very exciting cast or or guest uh both sick and a lot of people in our universe are working behind the scenes as well oh that's so great it's really good i obviously knocked them back uh they asked me to work behind the scenes in front of the scenes. I said, no, no, no. I'm doing a podcast. I'm busy one day a week. Thanks very much. No, I'm super excited to watch that. Love that show. I did love that show too. I have the box set and DVD. I keep meaning to watch it. My favorites were always Peter Rosthorne, Angus Sampson, Josh Larson, like the actors were always pretty good at it. Angus Sampson was a lot of fun. Angus Samson was so good. Yeah. Big, big fan. Yeah. Thank you, Kate. Next one comes from

Ryan Butterfield, okay, senior chief submariner that breathes recycled air for months at a time. And Ryan's giving us a follow-to-a-bet. Okay. I think this is the first follow-to-a-bet with her. I don't know what that is. I don't either. Let's find out together. Hmm.

So, Ryan writes, good day Matt Jess and Dave. Good day. In that order. He didn't say that, but I did. Just a quick follow-up to my last post. Wait, I forgot sometimes your guy's memory isn't the best. Thank you. So a quick recap, mostly for Jess.

Thank you so much. This is amazing, Ryan, how much you are. You get us. You get us. If you guys come to tour the US, my cousin will be my ticket to the show. Oh, that's right. Oh, yes. If I buy his plane ticket to the location.

You said New York City was a more likely spot, and that works too. My cousin is coming from Washington State. Also, I miswrote last time that I would buy his plane ticket. The actual bet was his ticket. Okay, that makes more sense. We thought it was a bad deal for one of you. Yeah. One buys a plane ticket.

The other buys a show ticket. Our show tickets will be very expensive, though. Yes. Thousands. Yeah, it's probably, yeah, it's probably cheaper to just fly somewhere. Yeah. Just have a nice holiday. Melbourne.

Yeah, to cover our visa lawyer, we are going to have to charge an amount that maybe no one will come. Yeah. Which means we're going to have to charge more because less people are going to come. Yeah, it keeps this horrible cycle or something that we're in seven figures.

So now we just need one person to buy a hundred thousand dollar ticket. I reckon, yeah, I reckon buy the tickets while they're uncomfortably expensive because if you don't, it's only going to get more expensive. That's right. As the demand drops, the price rates. I would be looking at your day-to-day life

and thinking, where can I make adjustments to save some cash? Do you need a coffee, you know? Stuff like that. Do you need avocado toast? Do you need a new car? Do you need nappies or diapers, as you call them? Probably not. So put them back and come see our show.

Buy a lot of merch as well, please. Use it as a nappy. Yeah. Oh, hang on. So he's saying it wasn't his ticket or his plane ticket. It was his transportation ticket. He didn't specify what kind. So his question is, what transportation should he pick?

And what form of transportation would you want to see, or would you want to use across the USA? Hovercraft for me. Oh, you like to hover. Yeah. Are they the ones that are like amphibious? They're those ones that sort of, their boat and then they're a land thing,

they called Hovercraft? Hovercraft. Sorry. Hover. You've been on French less than so long you can't. Sorry. That Vow sound was slightly different. I'm hovering.

I'm thinking that I would probably choose Razor scooter just really take in all the states. Yeah, yeah. As I cross from one side to the other. You can pack it down easily. Yeah, exactly. I'd be going one of those fully kidded out, like, tour buses. Oh, yeah.

With, like, bed, like, I'd have a bedroom. Oh, that looked awesome. Yeah. Like Dolly's one. Have you seen Dolly's one? No. So good. Yeah, I'd do that.

I'd have a driver, but I could sit in the lounge and look out of the window, Or I could go, you know, have a snooze. Love that. I get a bit, I don't like flying, so I'll get on a bus. That'd be nice. I think it was, I saw Dolly Parton's bus on, what is, Brian Johnson had a talk show, like an interview show, and he did an episode with her. Great up.

Am I thinking Brian Johnson, the right Brian Johnson here? ACDC. I'm from ACDC. He had a talk show, okay. Wouldn't it put him on my list of people to host a talk show? There you go. Or was Dolly Parton interviewing him? It's one way or the other.

I think it was Brian Johnson. That's great. Good on him. Yeah. Welcome! So I think we should get you to get your cousin a, I'd say, based on this episode, just first class playing tickets. First class, yeah, to make it worth a while. Yeah.

Thank you very much, Ryan. Oh, no, I mean, you're a submariner. Just get him a ticket in your submarine. Yes, I'm... That way you could, if to go coast or goes, you just sort of go under, wouldn't you? Just go under America. Yeah, way easier than going around. You go deep enough.

Yeah. I don't fully get, like, that that isn't possible. Do you know what I mean? Like, Shawl, how crazy? I don't get it. The next one comes from Harrison and Rebecca Ellis, okay, Sargento Whisper and Bandit Chips, names inspired by the horse name it generates. It's catching on, Jess.

And they ask a question writing, When you all finally get to come to America, what would be a fast food chain that you would be most excited to try? For example. Chapoile. Oh, okay, I've never had Chapoetla. I think you'd like Chapoel. I just thought that was a sauce from...

Nah, babe. From that place we get burritos from. Yeah, Zambarreros. Cumbaros. Oh, love Chapoelais. Sauce. They've given some examples. Calvers, in and out burger, chick filet, etc.

As Wisconsinites, we're partial to Calvers. I don't think I've heard of Calvers. I've heard of the other two. Chick-fil-A's always mentioned a lot. White Castle. Oh, you know how to White Castle. That's interesting. That's mentioned in Bill Bryson's book.

Wow. About American English. He talks about the origin of, they were pre-McDonnells. People rave about In-N-Out Burger as well. Oh, yeah, I've had In-N-Out Burger in L.A. Yeah, that was good. I don't know. Is that one?

They do fast food very well over there. Right. I don't, yeah, I don't know anything about any of these. I only know about the ones that come here. Subway. Subway, yes. McDonald's. Yep.

Taco Bell. Hungry Jacks. Red Ruster. Well, this is what Harrison says. I would want to get Red Rooster and try the Reds hot fried chicken if I came to Australia. And Rebecca says, I'd love to try Pie Face because I've had a few. So few kinds of pie in my life, and that seems like a problem that needs to be fixed.

Oh, yeah, you can try out some pie face and make sure you're near a toilet. Oh, the good people are pie face. That is slander. I'm a big fan. I like Bythe. Especially the, I don't know if they do it anymore because they're basically now in petrol stations. Yeah. But they used to have their own stores in the city.

There was like six of them open 24-7. I love that. You can get what was called a stack, which was a pie in a box, with your mash, with your gravy, with your peasant. piece, absolutely, could not get enough. 24-hour pies. So great. And they did dessert pies as well. So I would often get the veggie curry curry,

I call my curry pie for dessert. Two-cross meal right there. Like the chocolate pie for dessert. Love that. You know, the most memorable time I ate pie face was in New York City. I think it was the, they tried to open over there. Oh, in Times Square, was it? It was, wow, it wasn't in Times Square, but it was like two doors down from the

Ed Sullivan Theatre where I saw Lederman. So I went, had a pie face. And I went in there, I was confused. I'm like, I thought these were Australian. And he goes, they are. I'm pretty sure that Letterman went to one on the show. Oh, it would have been that one, probably. He went down and had it, brought a pie back, had that on the show.

Wow. I'm looking at top 50 fast food chains in America. I've never heard of this, but Jason's Deli sounds interesting. You can find muffa letters. Not sure that is. Loaded baked potatoes, fantastic. Caprizi Paninis and the endless garden fresh salad bar at any for the 273 Jason's delis across the country. Wow.

Jason's delis. Not fast food, but I'd want to go to an olive garden. Oh. Is that not fast food? What's that? That's a restaurant. But it's a chain restaurant. Restaurant like McDonald's is a restaurant?

I think slightly better than a McDonald's. What kind of food, olives? Yes. And salads, I guess. Is it all? olive salads? Yep. Wow.

Sounds delicious. Calamatta? No. Oh. But it's a great question. Thank you, Harrison and Rebecca. And finally, this one's from Ola McGrath. Okay, Brigadier General of being a fantastic friend, brackets, not to brag, close brackets.

And Ola is offering a fact writing, hi, gang. My fact is that it's a pretty cool guy's birthday. Well, actually, it was a week ago. but I definitely didn't think to do this too late, and this is actually an intentional choice to make your birthday last longer. Happy birthday, Robert. I hope you enjoy this more than the socks I'd normally get you,

and this makes up for the fact we weren't able to go for pints for either of our birthdays this year. Thanks for getting me into DoGo on. I guess you've got good taste and podcasts. Also, shout out to Gronier, who'll probably be the one to listen to this first and tell Robert about it. Oh, I love it. It's real real a system we got going on here.

Ola McGrath. One of the best names in the bizer, I reckon, Ola. Yeah, 100%. I'd never heard of Ola's until recently. There's an Ola who plays for the Brisbane Lions. She's Irish as well. Yep, that makes sense. Ola O'Dwere, she's a gun.

Yeah, yep. All of a sudden, it's become, it's got to be one of my favorite names. I met an Ola doing the audience warm-up last night. I'm not kidding. No word of a lie. Ola McGrath, I thought of you, because you were also the first aller I knew of. That's nice. That was honestly how I remember.

remembered their name. It's the name sweep in the nation. Olla. Taken over. So, it's a big, big, happy birthday. To Robert. Good on you, Robert. Thanks for listening and hope you have a great bloody birthday.

Thanks for getting Ola involved as well. Yeah, spread the good word. Bob, before it was a few, Dave and I might not have heard of the name Ola. Exactly. And I can't remember a pre-a world now. You guys haven't watched Derry Girls? I have. There's an Aller in that.

One of the main ones? Yes. Okay. Okay, well. But I think that I knew Ola McGrath first. I think I knew all of the graph first as well. Derek Groves' fantastic show based on, of course, Alla McGrath's life.

That's right. In the 90s. In the 90s. Thank you so much to Ola Harrison. Rebecca Ryan and Kate. The next thing we like to do is, I think a few of our other great supporters. Just normally with a bit of a game here. Yeah, that's true.

I do. And I can't think of a game for this one. I mean, when in doubt. Oh, horse name generated. We turn to the good people at horse name. Fake name on the plane. Yes. What are they checking in at?

at the counter. Great. The kind of name, and this is the name that would be broadcast across the PA system of the airport if you're running late.

Yep. Would insert name here please Kurt would chicken nug-nog bugaboo, please come to go to gate three. The plane is fuelling ready to take off. All right,

I've already got a good one. Absolutely. All right, well, if I may kick us off, I'd love to thank from Dublin in Ireland. Connor Kirby McGill.

Picasso Adagio. Paging Picasso Adagio. Mr. Adagio. First name. Picasso. Okay. If that was a real name, that would be the best name I'd ever heard.

Picasso Adagio. That is a brilliant name. Jess, can I just double-check Connor's surname pronunciation there? You're our Irish language expert. Connor, Kirby. That's probably McGill. Miguel, great. So not McGill.

Like I said, move over, McGill, because you're now Picasso Adagio. Fantastic. And can I say to you, Connor, welcome to plane. Next up, I love to welcome from Greensboro in North Carolina. I think I let a North Carolina slip before without letting everyone know that a fun fact, that's the place where Venus flytraps are from. Really? Yeah.

Fantastic. Anything about mini golf that you know about that area? Maybe invented it or something. Yeah, one of the first mini golfers in the world. possibly the first. A little fact I learned. That's a fact that needs no introduction to Sarah Hamblet. Or Hamlet, could be a soft bee.

Sorry, Hamlet. Hamlet. Max Expresso. Oh, yeah. And not expresso. Like how people mispronounce espresso. Yeah. Max Expresso.

Like how I say Expresso. Max Expresso. Max Expresso. Max Express. Not Mass Espresso. I love getting espresso martinis. I'm real basic. Next one, please.

May I thank from Melbourne, right here in Victoria. Wow. Zayl Anulty. Buck dynamite. Whoa. Buck, that sounds like a Brendan Fraser movie, don't you think? Buck Dinemite. He could have played Buck Dinemite.

That's very close to a recent episode, just that we did of who knew it, where we had to come up with fake names for a stunt double. And one of them was Buck Blazley. Buck Blazman. Wow. I picked that one. That sounds like a real name. Buck Dynamite.

Fuck yeah. My fake name was Gregory Thunderclapp. And I laughed so hard, Dave. I love it. Gregory Thunder clap. If anyone wants to check that out, that's the episode with Jess and Damien Cowell. And yeah, that's all for me. Zalia, Sarah and Connor.

Dave, do you want to thank a few? I will pick up where we left off and say thank you so much from Waldron, Arizona. Yoda Moon. And that is the nickname. Jess was so excited. I didn't get the name out there. Yoda Moon, aka Rachel Hilliard Brown. Yoda Moon.

Yoder Moon. I thought Waldron, Arizona was the person. I was like, that's already good. Yoda Moon. It's not even Arizona. It's Waldron, Arkansas. I'm so sorry, I just saw the AR and I just went, I had a punt. Waldron, Arkansas.

Arkansas. Okay, Waldron, Arizona. Well, you know that Waldron's from there. Let me tell you about Waldron, population 3,300. Wow, Mayor, David Millard. So, Maya. Mayor, which David Willard, which isn't that far off, Rachel Hilliard Brown. So makes you think.

Maybe they're related. She's somehow related to the mayor. Wow. Thanks so much, Rachel. I would like to thank also from now. This person is from an unknown location. Okay. I can only presume it's deep, deep within the fortress of the Moles or Iceland.

This is Matthew Tales. aka Charlie Blackjack. Charlie Blackjack. Charlie Blackjack. You're on fire here. Just like looking around the room. Blackjack. Matthew Tales, possibly Matthew Talas.

I'm going to give you that pronunciation just in case. I would now like to thank from Olath in Kansas. I'm just double-checking that because I'm worried I'm saying these wrong. From Olathing in-Killis, the name that I'm shouting out to is meat meat that's all the full name we've got meat from Olaf Kansas aka

bugsy gentlemen oh yeah that is very good meat bugsy gentlemen with you bugsy gentlemen please stand up please make themselves known to stuff bugsy gentlemen

fantastic that's that's my three Jess would you like to read some names out here yes here we go I would love to thank from Mitcham in Great Britain

Harry Clark. Harry Clark. Okay. We could use that name up a little bit. I think they could go by the name of... Don't pressure me. Sorry, sorry. The horse name generator.

It's not just a click and refresh type thing. Well, it's not refreshing. It works on its own time, this thing. But I've got one. Rudolph bamboo. Oh, my goodness. Rudolph bamboo. That's pretty good.

We should send QWERTY a message saying that for horses to love, We've got some name options for it. Absolutely. We could name that horse. So thank you to Harry. I would also love to thank from Croydon in Victoria. Mick. Mick.

Mick. Mike. I was about to think that I had to do something, but I don't. You don't. I've got it. I'm just trying to go between tabs. Merlin Legend. Oh my God.

You have not had a miss. Merle legend is fantastic. Do you want me to thank the last person Bob so you can work on that? I think I've got one. And finally, also from address unknown, can only assume from deep within the fortress of the moles. They only seem to go by MC, but I'm basing off their email address just in case they wanted a slightly more personalised shout out. I think their name is Monica. Okay.

Well, actually, it's wombat bramble. You've finished with the best. MCU wombat. Bramble. M.C. wombat. Bro. Brother. Sorry.

Brother. I would never bro. No, that's more about HG. HG for RoryNHG loves a bro. This is rugby league, bro. Happy rugby league to everyone listen. Happy rugby league. Thank you so much to MC Mike, Harry, meet, Matthew, Rachel, Sayela, Sarah and Connor.

And the last thing we need to do is welcome a few people in the Triptitch Club, which I know Jess explains better than anyone. Thank you. I do. So the TripDitch Club is for people who have supported us on Patreon.com for three consecutive years on the shoutout level or above. And we welcome them into this exclusive club. Once you're in, you cannot leave. I like to see it like an airport lounge. Matt sees it as more of like a cool bar type hangout clubhouse kind of thing.

Frank Sinatra might be hanging out there. Oh, yeah. Red velvet. Yes, it's classy. We've got a bar. We've got snacks. We've got booths. Yeah, we've got booths.

That's levels. Thanks Dave, yeah. I just wanted everyone to know. We've got booths. Booths. We do have booths, yes. And, you know, like fancy, I imagine, when I say airport lounge, you know how some of the airport lounge just have, like,

cool bathrooms who you can have a full shower and stuff? It's like that. What life are you living? I see TikToks. Oh, okay. I just have a fucking, are you kidding? I wanted to share in a lounge. It was nice.

When you say that, I'm picturing the. gate. I forget that the lounge is like, I'm like, it's a little fancier to me, but yeah, I forget that there's, I'm talking like a first class lounge. Yeah. No, I'm not. I just see videos. Okay. And and dream. I'm behind the bar, so I have a few, um, uh, cocktail specials and food. And this week I'm serving grenades. Oh, yeah. Okay. Is that the, the, the, the, the cocktail? It's both. Okay. Grenades. I've got a grenade in each hand. And if you all, you all, is that the, the, the, the, the, the cocktail. It's both. Okay. I've got a grenade in each hand. and if you order anything, I will set them off. Okay, I reckon I won't be ordering much.

Good call. The pins have been pulled. And put into this envelope. And Dave, have you booked a band? I always book a band, and you're never going to believe it, I booked a band from Utah this week, taking me back to my emo days. The Used are in tonight.

They're from Utah. From Utah. Do they play jazz? They probably could on request. Okay. Great. We will be requesting. You know, Utah, obviously, famous for jazz, so.

Exactly. Well, there's just four inductees this week. The way it works is I'm on the door, about to lift the velvet rope, so you can get into Jess's private airport section, and I'll read out your name. Dave's up on stage. He's hopping up the crowd, making sure you feel welcome with some pretty weak wordplay. Jess is then backing Dave up, trying to make him feel better about his probable failure. Here we go.

First up, I'd love to welcome in when you hear your name. Enter the club from Geelong West in Victoria, Australia. It's Mahama and Tom. Mahama and Tom, do go on. Yes, that's a nice easy one. Let go on. You're wrong Tom with on there, if you. From Fort Bragg in California, it's Marshall Car.

I don't mean to Fort Bragg, but Marshall Car, you'll go far. I did both there. That's pretty good. You are warming up from Mobile in probably Alabama, maybe. In the United States, it's Phil Hyatt. Will we take the red Phil? or the blue, Phil. You know what?

I'll take the Hyatt, Phil. Phil Hyatt, that is. Yeah, that's good. And finally from Sheffield in Great Britain. It's, oh, Jess, need you help on this one in? M-A-E-N? Maine. Maine-Galliger.

The main Gallagher course is here. Wow. Eat up. Thank you so much to everyone who's been supporting the show for three years. Can't believe it. You're all legends through and through. head on in, grab a grenade. Enjoy Bert and the used.

Wow. I want to, oh, it's saying, I try to click on a pronunciation for Maine and it said, forbidden. Oh, wow. So we'd not have said that name out loud. Forbidden. No, that's how it's pronounced.

Oh, forbidden. Welcome in Maine, Phil Marshall, Mahman, Tom. Make yourselves at home, please. Now, Dave or Jess, anything we need to tell people before we go? Just that we love them, that if you want to suggest a topic, you can. There's a link in the show notes and also on our website, which is do go onpod.com and you can find all info about, you know, live shows and all sorts of fun stuff. And follow us on socials at do go on pod. Davey boy, boot at home.

And don't forget, this is episode 399. Our big 400th episode to be listening this week is this Saturday night, Melbourne time. Tickets in person are sold out. But you can buy a streaming ticket anywhere in the world to watch live or later. We're at stupid old studio so you know the crew are going to have a fantastic set up for us. We can't wait to, yes, celebrate because it's the 400th episode. But then also afterwards, the after party DJ Bot Perkins on the decks. Can't wait. So you can get tickets to that.

The same website, Jess has said, do go on pod.com. But until next week, we'll say thank you so much for listening. Until the 400th, thank you so much and goodbye. Later. Bye. Too 10. Yeah, no, 45 years in prison or 45 users present. Yeah.

And he went, I'll take the president. I'll take the president. Good call. Let's find out. Karen's start. I'm happy though. First lady, Karen. Cannot please her.

First lady, more like first whiner. First whiner. The record shows that he did the talking thing with his hand. I couldn't think of a way to make it sound like lady. What's a like, what's a thing that sounds like a complainer, but it's lady? Complady. Complaty. Complety.

Edit all that out. Let me have this joke. Little joke there. No, very good work, Jess. First, complete. I reckon Jess is let you have it. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there.

Wherever we go, we always hear six months later, oh, you should come to Manchester. We were just in Manchester. But this way you'll never miss out. And don't forget to sign up, go to our Instagram, click our link tree. Very, very easy. It means we know to come. to you and you'll also know that we're coming to you. Yeah, we'll come to you. You come to us. Very good. And we give you a spam free guarantee.