Do Go On - 405 - The Minister For Murder, Thomas Ley

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

Politicians aren't trusted by the public at the best of times, but one Australian member of parliament really lowered the bar. Thomas Ley was a Minister for Justice whose opponents and critics had a habit of dying in mysterious circumstances or 'disappearing.' Everything came to an eventual head with the infamous 'Chalk Pit Murder.' Joining us to hear all about it is Jackson Baly and Adam Carnevale from Sanspants Radio. This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 08:35 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSupport the show on Apple podcasts and get bonus episodes in the app: http://apple.co/dogoon Live show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/Check out our merch: https://do-go-on-podcast.creator-spring.com/  Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/ley-thomas-john-tom-7191 https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/the-twisted-fate-of-madman-murderer-thomas-ley/news-story/afa71ff5175d6c628ec7285fddbec353 https://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/ley-thomas-john.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Ley# https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/30518501 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amarna, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. Welcome to another episode of Do Go One. My name is Dave Warnocky, and as always, I'm here with Jess Perkins.

Hello, Jess. Hello, David. How are you? I wish I was never born. Good to hear it. Well, maybe a couple of chaps that will change that tune, filling in for our main man, Matt Stewart, who is a way ill this week. And he is such a powerful presence. We needed not one, but two people to replace the great man.

And they are greats themselves. Would you please welcome to the show today? Adam Carnivalet and Jackson Baylene Whoa We do deserve an applause Yeah I think so I kept that going a little longer

Which is embarrassing for my own applause It's always It's always embarrassing It's always embarrassing Yeah especially for yourself Yeah But there's only four people In a room

Everyone's gonna do it Still good Whatever you are Keep clapping That was Adam that time Yeah Adam was the last club I didn't want to do it again I would have been

Double humiliating Yeah How are you both? Excellent. Yeah. Never been battle. I could run a mile. A whole mile?

One. Have you ever run a mile? I'm not run a mile. I've probably walked a mile. So the answer to the question, have you run a mile, is no. Yeah, no. I was thinking about this the other day, so you know, an Iron Man. Yes, there's an event where you do a marathon run.

You do like a 150K ride and like a 5K swim in the ores or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Super long. I was thinking about this. I don't think that I've, because recently the oldest person ever has done it, at 80 years old. Yeah, that's right. And it took him 17 hours, which is the limit apparently.

But I don't think cumulatively in my whole life, I've done an iron. I have not ridden that far or swam that far. Do you think, I was just think, because the Iron Man's three events, right? It's like running, cycling, swimming. Yeah, and they're all after each other. Do you think if you split it across, do go on, you could do one together? Well, I'm going to look up how long the ride is. And what if the Ironman didn't work?

Because there's multiple like three event, three event events aren't there? There's like the one where you've got to shoot something. I think that's only two. Skiing and shooting, I think. Skiing and shooting, all the modern pentathlon. Matt can stay home, yeah. But that's five when you're going to do the horse ride.

We'll do that. But there's the triathlon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At the Olympics? Yeah. We could do that. Or there's the triple jump. I could do the hop.

Jess could do the step and then Matt could do the jump. Yeah. That's smart. Do you think, do you think it would be feasibly possible for it to possibly even come close to an Olympic world record. If you had three people, do you think three of you could make one Olympic athlete? And we could, and we all get a run up because usually they do it one, then the other, but if we all did a run, I'd run, do a step.

Yeah. I think we could probably get 50% of the way. I think you could get close. I think if you ran and then stepped, do you think if you ran and then stepped, do you? would fall over. Feels like it'll be really hard to go very fast

and then stop one step. How many, just while Jesse looking up the... I think I found it what an Iron Man is and I think Dave

I think you're letting us down. Oh, okay. Interesting. It's a marathon so a 42.2K run. Okay, I'm not doing that bit. Oh my God. But you're saying

cumulatively. Yeah. Nailed it. I reckon Matt's done that because he would, when he's running consistently, he's doing 10K. In his life, you mean.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I've, the cycle is 112 miles or 180K. I've done that. All right. I have not done that. So then you just need to swim 3.8Ks. In the ocean, never done that. And never will do that. But you think cumulatively.

3.8's not that much. That's not that bad. How big is a swimming pool? How big is the, like a 50 meter? 50 meter. Yeah. I reckon I might have you, if you want to dump. Dave.

If you want to dump Dave. I might have you. always desperate to dump day. Okay. We make it four events and the final one is reading a book. Reading a book. While sitting in one of those like dump, like, you know, dump thing. Oh, okay.

Jackson is throwing baseballs at a target and if he hits me and Shakespeare entire play. The book falls into the water. Great. That's how you finished. You're going to finish that book. I'm not dunking you. I do not have the throwing on for that. Do you think if, all right, so you can do it starts off.

From this point forwards, you have to do an Iron Man challenge, but you can start, stop whenever you're ready. So the running part, you can run for like a few minutes, stop and be like, I'll come back to that later. Okay. Do you think with infinite rests, essentially, is what I'm asking. With infinite rests, do you think you could beat a professional athlete? Wait, do you, no.

But the athletes getting tired. They have to do it all consecutively. Yeah, but do you, is it? a time thing? Because I'm what are you talking about? I'm asleep. This is literally the tortoise

and the hair, dude. Except the tortoise wins. I think what you're saying is that like when you stop the clock stops. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like if you do it in like, I just run 50 metres a day, the fastest I can run.

If over several hundred days I do that is my time. Stacked up, is that faster than... Okay, for the swimming portion, what I'm going to do is only, like just jump into the pool and just measure that make all of your pool part

the part where you kick off the wall yeah yeah clapper you're all wall you could stack it you could stack it yeah I think you could do it yeah I think we've got this and I've looked up the triple jump the male world record is held by Jonathan Edwards of the United Kingdom a jump of 18.29 meters

or 60 feet I reckon I could throw you that link That counts Hammettos Yeah We'll put you in a little sack And I'll get a good swing And I'll throw you

Look we've gotten derailed very quickly We've got a topic to talk to you about And it's not athletic base I'm so sorry to say That's okay But for anyone who hasn't heard the show before Jess What do we do here? Well we talk about Iron Men

World records World records Could we beat them? Yeah We speculate And we never act on it So no one can ever prove us wrong. But some of the other time, we take it in turns to research a topic,

usually suggested to us by our listeners. We go away, we read all about it, we bring it back to the others who listen politely, who never go on dog shit riffs. And are always very respectful of the report giver. And it's Dave's turn this week. We usually start with a question as well, Dave. Yes, I've got a question for all three of you, and that is, you know, shout out if you know it. I think this came up on an episode recently.

So I won't know it. So, but according to seven news in 2021, a survey in Australia found what to be the least trustworthy profession. It's got to be something like politician or lawyer. It's going to be like one of the classics, right? Postman. It is. What does he do with my packages?

I'll pick up my mail. I don't know what a third party involves. It's unnecessary. I don't need that. I don't need you feeling. Get out of there. Get your grubby fingers away from my palsis. Greg, my Nike's never turned up and I know your feet look good, all right?

I know what, I know what happened. You've been speedy, Greg. I will say, Adam, you are absolutely on the money. But of the two, which you're going to lock it in? Politician. I'm going to lock it in. Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing. Correct, well done.

And that's not surprising after learning of this week's topic, Thomas Lay. Okay. Let me tell you all about this dirty politician. Oh, my God. Wasa, was a. You can't say it in a slightly salt-free voice You can't say dirty politician like that No, just a crook

Anyway, okay Thomas Lay, have you heard of him I doubt you have it's... No, no, no He's in his heyday about 100 years ago Oh, wow Oh, Thomas Lay Yes

No In his lay day About 100 years ago, right? Yes, no politician Yeah, okay A dirty one Dirty one Sorry, a dirty politics

Who's doing the report here guys? So Thomas John He was born on the 28th of October 1880 in Bath, Somerset. Somerset. Somerset. Somerset. It's a great place to say.

It's so fun to say. We went to Bath. Do you remember we went and saw the Roman baths there? I do remember that. Beautiful. I don't think I appreciated at the time that we were in Somerset. Somerset. When you drove up a one-way street.

Oh my gosh. Yes, I drove down the main mall. Oh, my God. Because the GPS said go this way. And we're like in quite a big van. and I only realized when I started driving up and I saw, huh, we either they put the Christmas nativity scene in the middle of the street. Oh, no, no.

I was so close to driving into baby Jesus. Oh, my God. So I just had to quickly pull off. That's awesome. We had some great driving experiences. Great time. So Thomas John, like his mother was Elizabeth and his father was Henry a butler. Okay.

Would you say a butler? They're quite trustworthy. No. Unless they always do it. The butler always did it. Sadly, Henry, the butler died in a workhouse hospital when his son Thomas was just six years old. And shortly after in 1886, his mother migrated to Sydney

with their four children and her mother. So the family didn't have much money when they moved over. And from a young age, Lay had to work as a paper boy and a messenger. Paperboy, almost a postman, not trustworthy. Stop getting your grubby little fingers on my news, okay? No more middle mass. I'll go right up to the news myself. I'll take the paper.

I'll take a back to my house. If I didn't hear about it, I don't need to know. First, Sam, whatever you see. I'm going to wait on my porch, and when the paper boy throws the news in me, I'm going to hit it back with the back. Keep it. Knock him up to the bar. News.com.com.

Which has an article about this, and I'll link to, writes that it was during this paper run in the wealthy areas with mansions in Sydney that he decided that he was going to one day get rich or die trying. 50 cents style. Bad ass. I think getting rich is a great goal. Yeah. I think it's just me.

It creates a type of person that is just good for the world. Exactly. Someone is prepared to do anything to get. Absolutely. What do you want to be when you're older? Rich. Okay. It's tangible.

I want to help people. What does that mean? Doesn't mean anything. It's clear. Yeah. I love it. It's a middleman of jobs, to be honest, helping people. Yeah.

But getting rich, that's just money in the bank. And I mean, there's always rich people. You're never going to go out of work. Yeah, exactly. The world will always need rich people. Since the time of the memorial, there's been rich people. You could be that job. Continue with the legacy.

If the pandemic taught us nothing, it was that, you know, there's so few industries that have true job security. We're always going to need teachers. We're always going to need doctors. We're always going to need Richie McRitch. Exactly. Always going to need them. That's what he wanted to be.

He knew that there wasn't always going to be paper boys, but there's always going to be rich people, so that was his big goal. He was like print media is... On the way out. On the way out. It's on the fritz. In 1860, I can tell print media is not going to last. In 70, 80 years, this thing's dead.

I'm going to get out now. Well, he went to school at Crown Street Public in Surrey Hills, where he probably would have been there at the same time as Victor Trumper, one of Australian cricket's early stars. What a small world. Yeah. What a great last name. Victor Trumper.

Victor Trumper. There's a photo of him holding a bat like around the turn of the century on his Wikipedia page. And it's listed as it says, this is probably the most famous cricket photo of all time. Victor Trumper, there you go, but what a big call. Yeah. For now. I haven't heard of it. Yeah, yeah.

But if I showed you, you'd be like, that's pretty great. That's a good photo. But the schooling years didn't last long for Thomas Lay, who had to leave his education. education at the age of just 10 when his mother withdrew him to assist her in running a grocery store that she had bought. He also later worked on a dairy farm near Windsor. So he's quite poor working from a very young age, but remember, he wants to be rich. Yeah, okay. According to the great source that is the Australian Dictionary of Biography. We love this source. Lay, however, had ambitions for working in the law. While at Windsor, he studiously learned shorthand after

hours and transcribed lengthy political speeches from the papers. I'm mostly self-educated man at 14. He secured appointment as a junior clerk's stenographer in a Pitt Street solicitor's office. At 14. That is young. When he's left school four years earlier now, he's like, I'm just going to be a solicitor now. Yeah. He just taught himself.

Milked cows. I've sold apples. How hard could it be. Yeah, exactly. A lot of transferable skills there, I'm sure. Yeah. At the age of 18, he married Emily Louisa Stone Vernon. Oh, my God.

That's a good name. Yeah, that's a real good name. She was the daughter of a well-off Somerset Doctor. Summerisat. Somerset. A impossible not to say. She had recently moved to Australia and they lived with his wife's widowed mother and together the couple had three sons. Okay.

They're 18. Yeah. That's true. Oh, come on. He's working his way up at the firm. Well, he worked his work for quite a long time in the Solicester's office and in 1914, at the age of 34, he finally was admitted. as a solicitor. So he'd been doing like the juniors.

It's two decades. Yeah, that's a long time. Although I have no idea about how long it does take. Probably not 20 years, right? Surely not. If you don't go to uni, probably 20 years. They're about too, he's just learning it on the job.

He was also a fantastic debater. Okay. Joining the Sydney Mechanics School of Arts, Lay, from this point, had his eye on politics. Again, from the ADOB, Australian Dictionary of Biography. The inner city offered few opportunities for an aspiring young politician

So in 1907, he moved to the developing suburb of Hertzville. Within five months, he was elected. Oh, ow, ow, ow. That's very good. That's very generous. I was so great because he's so understated. He pushed through the pain and became a local counsellor. He served on.

cancel committees, dealing with parks and gardens, rates and levies, building and health by laws, street maintenance. Sort of grassroots stuff. He was involved in the local rate payers association and the parents and citizens executive was active in the Protestant organisation such as the Presbyterian Debating Society. Through his advocacy of prohibition and his involvement in the temperance movement, the T-Totler acquired the nickname Lemonade Lay. Lemonade lay

That sucks Although it's been suspected That Thomas himself Had invented this quote Insult So he could wear it proudly As a badge of honour Give himself a bit of a rep

And an identity That's funny because it's not a very good insult Or a very good badge It's not good No one was talking about Thomas Lay But everyone is talking about Lemonade And I mean

Nicknames that people make up for themselves are always good and they always stick. Isn't that right? Cobra. Don't trust the nickname. It's the middle man of names. Yeah, it goes in the middle. Yeah, that's right.

That's true. I always hate when it's like, like if I had a, I don't think this counts. If say my nickname was Jackie, my name's Jackson is Jackie, and then you'll be like, I'm Jackson, Jackie Bailey. That doesn't count. That's not a nickname.

No, yeah, Jackson Jackie Bailey. Jackie's not a nickname. It's just a shortening of my name. Yeah, like I'm David Dave Warnocky. That doesn't count. No. That's not a nickname. But I am Jess Bop Perkins.

Yes, that counts. That counts. Because there's no clear correlation. And I attempted to be Dave Cobra Wonarchy in high school. It didn't work. It didn't know. It didn't catch on. What did you do to make it work?

What effort did you put in on your own? It just to be like, hey, guys, wouldn't it be cool if we called me Cobra? What's such a cool nickname? Like, I could be like, cobra. You didn't get like a cobra ring or like a cow. And you're saying, wearing a cow. Well,

like a cobra's got a cow. I know what you meant. That's insane. School had a uniform. Hey, I checked the rules. There's nothing about cows in there. There's nothing in the rule book

that says a cobra can't be your name. I was getting the cobra tattoo. Did you even consider, because I remember for our high school, when we hit year 12, we got hoodies that we could put a nickname on the back of. Did you consider cobra for that nickname?

I really should have. I ended up putting, Tell me it was just Dave. I put on, no, I went with The Simpsons. I went with Bort. Oh, that's good. That's good. Yeah.

I thought that was funny, but I really should have. You should have gone cobra. You should have gone. You should have gone. And you know what the thing is? It took so long for the year 12 jumpers to arrive. They arrived in the last week. Oh, that sucks.

War on for five days, never ever again. And they cost about $120. They were so expensive. Mine said Scout, because I actually had a nickname, Loser. That's a good one, too. She dressed as a ham for Halloween. She sure did. It's a weird kid.

It's a really weird thing to do. It's such a great costume, though. So this is Lemonade Lay. He ran for mayor several times, but was never elected, so he stepped it up and decided to go for state politics. Okay. If you fail at the mayor, well, I'd go for even the bigger prize.

This was more successful, and in March 1917, he was elected to the Legislative Assembly for Hertzville. For the National Party, which is the New South Wales State Parliament Lower House. Wow, too hot to handle. Yeah, it is a reaching in somewhere hot to get something noise we're doing. Yeah. Oh, there it is. Yeah.

I really want this chicken wing. Reaching over a candle. Ooh, I should have got the Mitz. So he's made it as a state politician, which is cool. He was pro-conscription, as was during the First World War, as was his party, the National Party, who had split from the Labour Party over the issue. After three years, Lay moved to another party and another. seat winning the seat of St George for the Progressive Party.

He was also part of what I believe is the shortest government in Australian history. Really? In your opinion. Well, I didn't quite fact check it, but I was like, it can't be shorter than this, right? The nationalist party that Lay was a member of was led by a guy called George Fuller. And at the time, the Premier of New South Wales, the leader of the state was James Dooley. He had only gotten the job after his colleague, John Story, had suddenly died. Okay.

He was the deputy. Dolly steps up. So James Dooley super new to the job, and George Fuller from the other party took full advantage of this and was able to defeat Premier James Dooley's government on a motion of no confidence. It's where you get all the polis to vote that someone isn't suited for the job. Yeah, sure. Rarely happens, but if you get him to, and so he had to step down. And as a result, George Fuller himself was asked if he could form his own government, which he did.

So George Fuller passed a motion of no confidence became Premier himself. Fantastic. For a whole seven hours. Ben, that's going to be hard. I reckon you're pretty safe for that's the shortest one. Before George Fuller himself lost on a motion of no confidence on him. Everyone was like, we don't want this guy. That's not in seven hours.

That's not long enough. Everyone's like, you're doing a terrible job. How many hospitals have you done the last seven hours? Get out of here. And then Jack Dooley was quickly returned to power, the guy that had been kicked out. What? What? Why?

What a waste of everyone's time? I've got no confidence in Dolly, but I have less confidence in. George, full us, doleys back. That's crazy. That is, you know, all right, so I don't know if this is something that the rest of you encounter, but if I am given at a restaurant, if I'm given the wrong meal. Sure. I'll eat that meal.

Okay. I will sit there and shut the hell up. The waiters who serve. Hang on, how wrong a meal? So you voted a chicken, somebody gives you like a potato and leek soup. You're just slurping it down. I have eaten food that I am allergic to. don't do that

I don't do that every waiter in every restaurant that I have ever been to does not understand the power they hold over me I will finish that plate no matter what plate is brought out to me

and I will pay for it and then you go to the alley and put your epipen into your time the concept the idea that someone could be like no we don't want this government

we want this government no we want this the original government That is, it's like an alien in that as far as... So the idea that they got the second guy in and weren't like, oh, he sucks, but we'll just deal with him. We'll drink the soup. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I wouldn't send a soup back. To send a government back like that? Wouldn't. Do you also feel bad if you don't finish your plate at the restaurants? Yes. They don't care. I feel like I'm insulting them. Do you know what?

Yes, I apologize to them too saying, oh, sorry, I ate before I came. I really like this. I really liked it. I don't say shit, whatever. Okay. When I was a kid, though, because my mum was always good at that because I don't eat huge portions

because I need to eat more frequently through the day, okay? That's all right. It gets to meal time and I'm not eating huge portions and as a kid one time I was done and my mum was like that's okay, you did well, good job and then the waiter came to take the plate

and then she said, I think you can eat a bit more. Oh my God! No way. To a child that wasn't hers! That's crazy! And it made me such a complex that now and thank God my partner is just a human garbage bag.

I'll eat as much as I want and then just hand it over. Wow. Is that his nickname? The human garbage bag? My dad literally calls him Gladbag. That's awesome. Now that is a nickname.

And it was given to him. Wow. Not affectionately. My dad is an incredible eater. Yeah. Incredible eater. My dad, at some point he hit the, I don't know when it happened

where foods just become fuel for him. He used to live. like food and now he makes breakfast and he just gets whatever he can find puts it in a frying pan eats it with a spoon gets on with his day i don't know it just some transition happened to it and he forgets that he likes food which is weird so we're like oh we're gonna go out for mexican with the family and he's like i hate mexica food and then we sit there and he's like i'm like you don't know what you want you just keep even you've lost your mind you've what's going on that you have a tattoo of nachos you love mexican food one time my dad ate so much that the

waiter at the end came up to him and said, sir, you are a weapon. You know, you're at a buffet, like, you know, you're at a buffet, like, I think the, the weapon. Yeah. Call in the weapon. Yeah, like you can't finish your weapon. Yeah, straight over. Over to the weapon. It's great.

Yeah. It's so good. Do you ever have where you order, you don't finish a meal? I mean, you all finish a meal, but this happens to me. I don't finish a meal. The waiter comes along and says there was there something wrong with it? That's the worst thing. Oh, no.

Is there a problem with the chicken? No, I've just done. Yeah, I've eaten enough for me. I'm full of food. I've literally had nightmares that are that. Yes. And I've had one instance where it became a bit of a debate. He was like, I was like, I'm done with the chicken.

And he's like, is there something wrong with it? And I was like, no. And he's like, well, why didn't you finish it? Oh, my God. This was at a Chinese restaurant somewhere. That is an absolute nightmare. Like, hand you like a little, like a form to fill out? What's wrong with you?

You can tell me if you hate it. Just tell me. A full stat deck. It's like, I don't know. And the actual thing was, I was being polite because it was disgusting. What I wanted to say is it was slimy as hell for some reason. But I held my tongue. So I loved it.

It was the best chicken I've ever had. I'm just full. Well, why weren't you finishing it? Take it home. Well, I could. I could, but I'm just going to throw it out. You may as well throw it out here in your bin. That is also alien to me.

As I've also worked as a waiter, I've done on both sides of that equation. And as a waiter, my goal was always to get in and out as quickly as possible. I don't know why you're asking. Yeah, I know. Don't stick around. Yeah, struck up an unnecessary conversation about a meal you didn't prepare. Oh, no, that's what I think. They don't care.

They didn't, if the cook comes out to you, then maybe you got, I mean, I don't know what's happening in the restaurant. It comes out with a butcher's guy. We've got something wrong with the chicken? No, no, no, no. I'll eat it now, dude. It's delicious. I love it. Notice you didn't finish you.

Oh, well, you'll eat it now? Well, you don't want it cold. I'll make you a new one. Okay. From a full meal comes like. I'm being extorted by this kitchen. Yeah. And I'll sit here until you finish it.

Okay. Okay, thank you. I love it. So Thomas Lay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about it? He was part of that government for seven hours. He's hit the big time.

Nice. But Lay himself was not popular with his own party. The ABDO says that he was deserted by many of his colleagues. They write, Lay was a fluent speaker with a most unctuous manner, and deluded many with. his community work and pious utterances, but his colleagues seem to know the truth about him, because he's out there saying, I don't drink. No one should drink. Lemonade Lay, baby.

Because like I said, he was supposed teetotaler, nicknamed Lemonade Lay, and the temperance movement who wanted to limit alcohol consumption loved him until he supported legislation which eased requirements for the sale of alcohol. Oh. So you're telling me, the person who went into politics with the idea that they wanted to be rich didn't stand by can you believe it? That's crazy to me. That's crazy. That's crazy stuff. That doesn't sound right. Yeah. I think you need to go back and

do small research. Are you putting word on the A-B-D-O? Australian Dictionary of Biography? Maybe it's A-D-B-O. Anyway, whatever it is. I was fighting words. A-D-B. No, A-D-O-B. Australian Dictionary of Biography. You're right, it's the A-D-D-O.

Or is it the Australian Biography of A bod? A bod? A bod? Is it a bot or a dob? It's a dob. It's a dob. A dob. A dob. A dob. A dob a bot.

It's a dob, everyone. Okay, thank God. Okay. It later became... Sorry, I've lost my spot now. That's okay. It's not okay. I'm just getting word. It's not okay. It's just in.

It's not okay. It later actually became evident that he was being... paid by the brewery lobby and that Lay himself was a big drinker. It was, leavenode lay. It's like a wrestling character to him. Like, none of it is true.

None of it is true. And then backstage he's just like shodding burby. What's the word for the like act that they do in wrestling? K-fabe? Yeah, he's just a k-fabe. It's all K-fabia.

He's trying to justify it. It's like you're ruling for the state here. I'm playing characters. It's a character. Everything's a character. I also nearly said ACAB. It's ACAB.

You're thinking of ACAB. You're welcome. I'm helpful in this conversation. So he lost the support of the temperance movement by showing his true colours there, but this did not stop him from being appointed New South Wales Minister for Justice. And won't that seem a little ironic later on? Oh, no. This was from 1922 to 1925 in the cabinet of Premier Sir George Fuller,

who got another proper go at being premier. Here's the one that had for seven hours. What the hell? He came back. People got some confidence in him, I guess. He got a new haircut. Everyone was like, actually? God, you look great.

Have you seen Fuller lately? Let's give him the government. He's looking alright. He's looking good. He's looking healthy. He's looking out. He's looking good sideburns. Oh, maybe that seven hour government

was because of his five o'clock shadow. Oh, that's true. That might have been it. They grow a bit of a beard. You're like, I'll get this guy out. And then next time they seem clean-shaven, they're like, why did we kick you out? Oh, God, you're such a... You look great.

You look really good. Government's all that looks. Just look at them. They're gorgeous. Never seen a dud politician. They're each hotter than the last. No, uh-go's amongst them. Baddies all the way down.

That's politics. So he became Minister of Justice for the State, and as Minister for Justice, Lai was notoriously harsh. There was an outcry when he refused to communicate. mute a death sentence and he was like, yeah, nah, the law's the law. And you let this famous case, he'd let the guy hang. People were like, you are brutal. In 1925, he was re-elected to his seat, but his party lost the election. So he was now in opposition and no longer minister for justice. So when he got a personal invite from Prime Minister, Viscount Stanley Melbourne Bruce. Do you know, we have a former Prime Minister? Who? Viscount Stanley Melbourne Bruce. His middle name

was Melbourne? What's a vi count? I know what a count is. No, I don't. Yeah, think about a count. Nothing about a vi. Okay. Put them together.

Combine them. What are you got? You got a vi count. Okay. Hey, you'll learn a little something every now and now. As opposed to the one, two, three, four, you go one, vye, two, five, three, five. Is that vye counting? Yeah, that's vi counting, yeah.

That's a really, that's a really good bit. You actually, hang on, I'm just getting a message. You actually legally need to be nice. Nice to me. Fair enough. This just in. This just in. So, yeah, Prime Minister Stanley, Melbourne, Bruce.

He disliked his given name. I didn't know anything about it, but looked into for a bit. And throughout his life, he preferred to be known by his initials SM. Even amongst his close friends, his wife simply called him S. Like a spy. That's weird. I hate that. Call him babe.

Yeah. Hobby. Yeah. Hobby. Honey. Yeah. So dull. There's so many pets.

Many pet names. Pumpkin. Yes. Any of these are good. Yuck. S, that's a snake letter. Yeah, that's for snakes. Okay.

When he became Prime Minister, he issued a note to the press asking newspapers to use his initials and not his given name. He's like, do not call me Stanley Melbourne. Call me SM. That's crazy because it's not even that ridiculous a name. Stanley. It's like a pretty normal. That's fine. Stan.

That's like your go-to name for a normal guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what's his surname again? Bruce. That's a bit weird. Stanley Bruce. It's two first names. I'm rid of Melbourne, that's weird.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was Melbourne a city at this point? It was, and he was from like a pretty powerful family. Okay, that's weird. How old do you think Melbourne is? Who can say? Who can say? Nobody knows.

So this guy, Stanley and Melbourne, Bruce, he called our main man, Thomas Layup, and said, would you like to stand for the federal seat of Barton? You got a personally invite saying you could be up in federal politics. You could run for my party. And he said, yes, he quit state politics. This is the big time. Federal, so he left that.

Wealth on the horizon, hopefully. He's closer. He can test it. Yes, closer. The Prime Minister invited a later stand for his party in the seat of Barton in New South Wales. Before the election, the seat had been held for three years by a guy called Frederick McDonald, a member for the Labour Party. Before his election in 1922, Frederick McDonald had been a school teacher for 13 years. And from what I can read, it seems like a pretty nice guy.

Yep, Bob. Then came the 1925 election, where McDonald went toe to toe with... Our guy, Thomas Lay. And it was not a clean fight. It got very messy out there on the campaign trail. During the campaign, Thomas Lay had a crack at McDonald for his alleged links to communists. Oh, no. Nasty.

Awful. Terrible. Can you believe this? Yeah. I'd hate that. Are you of links to communists? I, what? No.

I said these guys sound like a couple of commies. Oh, my God. No, me, I'm as capitalist as apple pie. 100% yeah I would never I like to buy your apple well you can and a fair market price as we cut capitalists

wasn't gonna say a different thing as we capitalists love to do I will sell it to you guys you want a private meeting I got some dirt on out your preferential treatment I will name names they're gonna put me in whatever capitalists do with

communists sing sing that's where you're going Oh, no. Straight to Sinsing. So, Lay's like, McDonald's to come into spreading all this rumor about him. Then on the day before the election, McDonald bit back.

He alleged that the year before, Lay had tried to bribe him into not contesting the seat of Barton and tried to get him to sit out the election. Apparently, Lay had offered McDonald a 2,000 pound share in a property at King's Cross in return for withdrawing from the ballot. That's equal to 100,000 pounds today. Okay. So a fair chunk of change.

All you got to do is nothing. Sounds like a good deal. I'd take 100 grand to do nothing. Yes. I'm doing nothing for free. 100,000 pounds, is that straight converted to dollars? Or would that be... That is because we were using pounds in Australia about then.

So I've just converted that to modern British pounds. Okay, so British pounds. So there'd be like quarter of a million-ish. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty good money. I would do nothing for that. Absolutely.

I would do nothing for that as well. You've just reminded me, what's that story about when we changed from pounds to dollars? And there was like a meeting about what we were going to call our unit of currency. And it was something like, we were going to call it like the Austral or the Oral or something like that. The oral. No, and it was something like that. The reason we did it, and I wish I could remember what it was specifically. The reason we did it is because it sounds like a sex act.

Yeah, there was like a transcript of like parliament at the time. And they're like, we know Australians. They're going to shorten it. And what they shortened it to sounded like a dirty word or whatever. So they're like, we can't do it. They'll rack it. Oh, that's so annoying. I can't remember what it was called.

Even back then, we were shortening everything. Yeah, but like we know what they're going to do. We can't let them do that. They're not going to get away with it. Call it dolls. They're going to call it suckers. It's something like that. A suck job.

20 suck jobs, thanks. Yeah, can you lend me six suck jobs, please? Yeah, for sure, absolutely. Yeah, coffee's getting expensive. They might find some funny way to make this suck job sound dirty. We can't be happy. I don't know. Hey, if you hurt the kids, they don't call them suck jobs anymore. They just call them imagine. Imagine. I don't need to imagine. Jack, we live in a little. Oh, my God.

That's great. So, McDonald said, Lay tried to bribe me. He's dodgy as. I'm not a communist like he's saying he's the dodgy one. Of course, Lay furiously denied the allegations and on election day issued a writ against McDonald, claiming that he would sue him for 15,000 pounds for defamation. Lay even made this statement. statement to the press. He said, my opponents have accused me of just about every crime, except the most serious one of all. But I'm sure that someone someday will make out a plausible case against me for murder. Don't say that. Do not say that. You're attempting fate there a little bit. What is wrong with you? On election day, he was so close in the seat of Barton,

lay, he won, but by only a thousand votes, which was only 1% of all the votes in the scene at the time. So he just narrowly snuck through. But the losing man, the teacher, Frederick McDonald, was not happy. And a couple of months later in January 1926, McDonald challenged the election result in the court of disputed returns on the basis of the bribery allegations. It's like, this guy tried to bribe me. He should not be a member of parliament.

In March 1926, it was reported that he and Lay had agreed on a legal settlement wherein McDonald issued an apology for the bribery allegations and they both stated their intention to withdraw their respective law. lawsuits because remember Lay was suing McDonald for making up what he said was liable about him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then McDonald was like, I'm suing you for bribery. They're like, okay, we'll agree to. No court cases.

We'll call it. Yeah. However, according to this very astute political website I found called wikipedia.org. Oh my God. It has been suggested that Frederick McDonald subsequently had a quote fit of remorse and refused to withdraw the petition. Like McDonald had gone, no, I am going to take this to court. This guy is dodgy.

I'm not going to let him get away with it. Okay. Seems like a good guy. I will challenge the election result in pursuit of the truth. I don't care what it costs me. The next month in April 1926, Frederick McDonald went to have a meeting with the New South Wales Premier, Jack Lang, about a job at the Education Department.

Okay. The thing is, Mr. McDonald never made it to that meeting. Oh, my God. What? He disappeared. I am reminded of something. lemonade lace previously

one day they might accuse me of murdering Fred McDonald and making him disappear I certainly will not be doing that I might say that on the 26th of April I'll do that I will not be doing that he was last seen at 2.30pm by his wife

outside Sheller House in Martin Place where he left for the appointment with the Premier but he never arrived at that meeting well it could be anyone you know people get lost all the time especially

in Sydney. Yeah, you trip fall into the bay, shark gets you up, never mind, the end. You go up a one way straight, you're like, well, now I don't do like five left. Oh my God, yeah. Might as well leave the town. Cleaning your gun, accidentally shoot yourself on the head two times. Yeah, exactly.

From behind? Yeah. You got execution style, some would say. Burry yourself accidentally in the desert by mistake. We've all done it. Oh, my God. We've all been there. Now I'm setting fire to my own course.

Oh my God, it looks like I'm not leaving any evidence. What am I doing? Oh, post-humorously filing down my teeth? Oh, what the hell? Butterfingers. Despite announcing in March that he would in fact contest the election with his intention to withdraw the agreement with late, because remember he said, actually, no, I'm going to withdraw that.

He'd never actually formally withdrawn the agreement to not sue, and when the matter went to court on the 23rd of April, his solicitor denied knowledge of the settlement and sought an adjournment in the hope that McDonald would soon be found alive. Okay. However, after an extensive search, McDonald was never found,

and the matter was just struck out of court. So, Lay, completely off the hook. The guy that was going to sue him and challenged the election has disappeared. Would you call that suspicious? You think? Well, reports. I think it's fortuitous. Yeah, exactly.

He's a lucky guy. Yeah. Lucky Lay. And what, now we're having to go at him for being lucky. Yeah. Like, that's his fault? What's his well come to, dude? Come on.

Come on. The guy was a teetotaler, I don't think he's going to get into anything harder than that. Yeah, exactly. Laminade lay, because he drank so much lemonade. Yeah. Or just regular amounts, but instead of beer. He still lead us with the stuff. Reports at the time suggested that his rival McDonald was suffering from nervous trouble at the time of his disappearance.

So some people just wrote it off. He was having nervous trouble, you guys. Oh, poor him. He was just super worried that he might get murdered. He seemed a little. He was wondering he might disappear. Paranoid. That would never happen, I told him.

And now it's happened. I feel bad. But it's paranoid. So Lay wasn't investigated and he could get on with his life as an uncontested member of parliament. However, the cloud that hung around him after this became a fatal blow to his political career. Basically, before the election, he thought he'd be made a minister. Yeah, I was going to get the vicar, Mr Melbourne, tapped him on the shoulder, gave him the personal call up. S. M.

But after this, because this was. heavily publicised, both the bribery and then also the guy disappearing, the prime minister was like, I can't have you on my cabinet. You can't be minister for me anymore, sorry. And then the prime minister goes missing. He had nervous trouble.

I mean, we've all been there. Harold Holt. He did write this letter saying that if he was missing, I would be prime minister. I guess. I don't know what we're going to do about that. If these are his last wishes, I guess we have to honor.

I feel a bit awkward, but I mean, I'll do it for him. I'll do it. I'll do it. Of course, but I will. Also, my first action is increasing the Prime Minister's salary. We'll take it straight out of homicide. It's no need for him.

Honestly, this wasn't the only scandal that plagued delay at this time of his life. He had other business dealings apart from being a politician. Racehorse. He will get to race horses. He absolutely will. Good call. I love race horses. But at this time, he established.

businesses like the legal firm of Lay, Andrews and Co. As well as other businesses, like Australasian Oil Fields Limited, and the very suspicious-sounding S-O-S-Prickly Pear Poisons Limited. All right, then. You do love to see it when someone who wants to be rich, gets into politics, and then opens up a bunch of businesses. There's a lot of money in poison. It sounds really, S-O-S-there stands for Save Our Soil,

as it was a product that killed the invasive prickly pear cactus. Oh, okay. So they weren't poisoning people. They were poisoning fruit. No, but like if you are a murderer, it sounds super bad. But it turns out it was a super sus company as according to the A-Dob. This is what they quote, allegations of irregularity were rife by 1927.

He had convinced many fellow politicians and members of the public to buy shares for the reportedly very profitable company, despite the fact that he knew the profits were in fact phony and were actually the result of some very creative bookkeeping. He was like, everyone should invest in this because he's quite a famous guy, and people are like, all right, I guess I will. Got to kill those pairs somehow, do you?

I love that. I think that guy whose political opponent went missing, I think he seems trustworthy. Well, I mean, you know his poison's work. If anyone can poison something, it's this guy. I trust it. I love it when people, by the way, I love it when people call financial crimes creative bookkeys thing.

That's a great description. It is nice. Somebody should do an exhibition, you know. It's a creative endeavour. It's a art, you know. Should hang it in the loaves. Yeah, Bachelor of Arts, Majoring, creative bookkeeping. This didn't go unnoticed the fact that he was sort of making up the books.

And a group of businessmen concerned at Lay's reputation for dubious business dealings appointed a guy called Keith Greeder, an associate turned opponent to investigate him. Because he screwed over a lot of people and then they came back to bite him. But you'll never believe that. as he traveled to Newcastle by boat no Keith Greeter fell overboard and mysteriously drowned

no you can't you actually can't that's not allowed whoops butterfingers I mean he just yeah boats are slippery that's right someone had butted up the rail

and then pushed him off the anyway well he was unconscious at the time so of course he fell you can't stand up if you're unconscious. Come on. Most people fall if you bash him over the back of the head and then grab him by the feet

and sort of hoist him over. Flake him into the sea. Oh my God. So yeah, Keith was coming down to investigate him and then Keith disappeared. Coincidence. Exactly.

Why was he on a boat? There's only two. It's coming down from where? I'm not sure. Maybe he was coming out from coming down from up north or from England. I'm not sure.

Oh, yeah. But he's coming to Newcastle on Australia. Early 20th century, it might have been more, Well, there wouldn't have really been planes, so boats wouldn't have been an unreasonable way to train or boat. I'm just always like, why would I choose sea travel? Yeah, just as anti-sea. You don't want to be on a boat?

Well, you'd be hard to, uh, to assess, well, not assassinate, sorry, you'd be hard to make fall off a boat then. That's true. But you could make me fall off nearly anything else. I draw the line of boats. Don't say that. He might be listening. We haven't heard the end.

Oh my God. And we've been teasing this guy the whole time. Oh, God, no. Yeah, if you go back and notice that I haven't teased it once, because I know what he's capable of. Oh, my God. I don't want to mysteriously disappear off a boat. So, Keith Greeter.

That'll be so creepy to listen back to when you do inevitably disappear off a boat. Yeah, yeah. And then we put that on your tombstone. I don't want it to. Don't do that. Say beloved friend. Oh. We put that in brackets.

Okay. Now, but people will be like re-listing to stuff, and they'll hear that and be like, I just got chills. Yeah. Oh my God. That is so spooky. He said he didn't want to disappear on a boat and then he did. That's crazy.

He was the last person on Earth that wanted to do that. Quick question. Jumping back to something, you said a little bit, okay, Jess. Why is it inevitable? It's coming. Some things are set in stone. Yeah, I feel like just by him saying that it kind of jinxed himself. I think I got two possible deaths in my future.

That or hit by a bus. I think those are what's coming for me. And how would you feel about being hit by a bus? I think that would be all right. Okay, so now if that happens, people will be like, oh, I don't know if I got chills. I don't have chills, but I'm at peace. Yeah, because he knew it was coming.

And he was okay with it. Yeah. When I see the bus, I'll be like, oh, okay. Yeah, it's like when a really old family member who's sick and they're ready to go and they go. Get hit by bus. Yeah. And you're like, you have a bit of peace about it. Or like when an old cat, like it's their time and they go walk off into the bushes.

One day I'll just get up, leave my house, go stand on the road. Oh, it was his time. Burr! He was ready. He was waiting for that truck for some. Seven hours. It's a quiet road. So Keith Gretor has drowned out of the way.

But Gretel wasn't the first associate to turn against Lay. Another politician, Hyman Goldstein, who was the member for Kudji. All right. Yes. So he was a politician himself. Hyman Goldstein had gone in with Lay on the prickly pear poison business. I see. Of course.

Like a lot of people. Sadly, you're never going to believe it. The company went bust. What? But you'll be very relieved to know that before it was. went bust, Thomas Lay managed to miraculously sell all his shares for 9,200 pounds, which is equivalent to three quarters of a million dollars. This is the luckiest guy in the world.

Just before it was announced that it was going to go bust, he was able to sell them all at a very big profit. You never going to believe that. That's crazy. He's so lucky. He's a lucky guy. And the guy coming to investigate him, fell off a boat, unrelated. Exactly.

And then... His political opponent disappeared? Unrelated? That's amazing. So lucky. Such a lucky guy, yeah. So the member for Kudji, Hyman Goldstein, was one of many shareholders who lost their investment when the company collapsed. And subsequently, he began a campaign against Lay that if successful meant that all of the shareholders that Lay ripped off would probably be able to follow suit.

Okay. Right. Oh, good. So things were not looking great for Lay. He'd ripped off a lot of people. And if one goes through, then it opens the five gates for many, many lawsuits that will ruin him. But honestly, what are the chances of this? Oh my God.

You'll never believe it. But Hyman Goldstein was found dead after a fall from Coochie Cliffs. What? See? Cliffs I could fall off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At this point, actually, I don't think it's, I don't think it's him. I think it is just like, because how, how's he got the time? Yeah.

He's covering a lot of bases. I don't think it's him doing it. No. He's not going out on the boat to meet the guy investigating him, tipping him off the boat. Going undercover on the boat. Do you think, though, if you were Hyman? And he's like, hey, do you want to come up to the cliffs? You'd be like, yeah, okay?

You know, I think I might be like... I'd love to. The sunset is beautiful up there. Thank you so much. That's so kind of you. I've been really stressed. I could really use a walk at sunset. Thank you.

I think we all... Well, yeah, I think that we would just because, well, all of us for our own different reasons, you think it's lovely. I think that he doesn't have enough time to kill me. I think my time has come. We'd all go do it. Yeah. Well, but you're inevitably going to fall off a boat, so you'll be fine.

That's true. That's true. No boats inside. How is this happening? That's what I say. It's up the cliff. No! What?

This doesn't make any sense. It's not. And then you survive the cliffs. Oh, that's bad. You fall onto a boat? Oh, my God. I fall onto a highway and I see a bus coming. And you think, oh, I'm ready.

I'm home. So he's gone over the kudji cliffs, found him at the bottom. It was ruled an accidental death after an inquest concluded. He'd gone for one of his frequent early morning walks without putting on his glasses and had veered off the path and just fall into his death. That sounds likely right. Yeah. Oh dear.

If you're a Sydney side of listing, the Goldstein Reserve at Kudji Beach is named after Hyman, part of the beautiful Bondi to Kudji Walk. Oh, that's nice. Some beautiful views there, but stay away from the edge. Yeah, wear your glasses. Please. It's smart. But if you're keeping count, that is now three suspicious deaths of people associated with Thomas Lay,

all critics of his, all gone or died within a decade. It's a little suspicious. Yeah. Little sauce. News.com.com. You writes that this wasn't the end of his lawsuit troubles, however. The prickly pear lawsuits went ahead, costing him thousands in out-of-court settlements, money he raised by selling off his properties.

Oh, I see. Poor fellow. It is really hard to feel so over this case. I feel so sorry. Having to sell off your sixth and seventh house. Yeah, that sucks. I've only got five left. What are you going to leave your children?

Yeah. Nothing, basically. Now they'll only have one house each. Yeah, that's despicable. I wanted to give them a house and, of course, a beach house each. Of course. Well, yeah, they'd got a holiday somewhere. Exactly, my God, now they're holidaying at home.

Oh, my poor, poor children. I'm so sorry, I'll let you down. Lay was up for re-election in 1928, and this time he lost. Oh, okay. A few scanners are gone on around him. I would be scared to be the opponent that beat him. Yeah. No one put the hand up

No, you can just have it, just have it So Lay decided to return to his country of birth Old Blighty Did he take his wife Louisa? No Of course no Did he take his mistress Maggie Brooke? Yes he did

Okay Maggie hasn't been there No That's fair She wants to see the Buckingham Palace Fair enough She wants to see the beef feeders Yeah

Okay The crows that they got Ravens whatever She wants to see him God. Another question. Had Maggie Brooks' husband also died in suspicious circumstances? Why, yes.

Yes, he had. Is that so? It's reported that her husband was stung to death by bees. Okay, I don't know how he could have coordinated that one. Drop a beehive on his hat. Okay. Drop the beehive. Like a Woody the Pooh.

If you know someone's got an allergy. A Woody the Pooh. Quick. I was going to say like a Winnie the Pooh died, but that's not what I meant. Because he gets a beehive stuff in his head at one point But it doesn't kill him He loves honey It's actually a win for him

Yeah, he's happy about it Actually, just quick question These bee stings, they 9mm 38 How big were the bee stings actually? They were like a, it looked like it was a serrated bee He had gone quite far in These bees had fingerprints That's crazy

That matched Thomas Alley Strangle to death By a bunch of babies That's what it seems like Happened to him So he suddenly died And very soon after that Thomas Lay

Had brought the young widow Over from Perth to Sydney Where he put her up In one of his apartments Okay, that's kind of him And that was the beginning of a 25-year affair And now they'd moved together to England

Leaving his wife and family behind Of course Had he changed his ways Yes Absolutely not just But you'd be happy about this He got even dodgyer Including the Promotion

of an unrealised one million pound sweepstake for the 1931 derby. There's always horse racing. So there is horse racing, absolutely. There you go. They love it. He also engaged in dubious real estate dealings and was a wartime black marketeer.

So he had finger in many dodgy pies this guy. Like the kind of pie that's going to probably give you the squirts. Yes. I didn't feel good about it as I started to say it. No, but it needed to be said. I think it was important.

A dog pie. Yeah, no, it is. Yeah. Well, because, like, what other kind of dodgy pie is there? It's not, you know, unless it's like a fake pie or something. Whoa. That makes you think. What sort of black market activities was he involved in? I think it's mostly gambling type stuff. Oh, okay.

Betting on things where probably were there. At the time, they're like, no, we, you know, we're being a bit austere. Shouldn't be gambling on this kind of stuff. And he's like, let's keep it going, baby. Let the good times roll. Yeah, that's right. Sort of backdoor casino stuff. With his son, Keith.

which is one of my all-time favorite names, Lay tried to renege on a transaction that he'd made using forged and slanderous documents. Both father and son avoided jail, but they had to pay nearly 20,000 pounds and damages. Oh, my God. That was the closest anyone had come to, you know, putting a conviction against this guy so far.

Got his ass. $20,000? I don't think he's made much more than that, has it? No. How much did the poison company go for? You know. In the early 1940s, now in their 60s, Thomas and Maggie, his partner moved to London,

and somehow Thomas Lay got it into his head that his 66-year-old partner Maggie was having an affair with a 35-year-old man named John Moody, who she'd probably barely met. He just lived in the same large boarding house as the couple. That's what they want you to have. That's how it starts. Maggie.

He's getting in early. But Thomas Lay thought they were having an affair. Sure. And he wanted revenge. and this is the guy that seems to only have one way of dealing with this problem. Sitting down and talking about it. Exactly. He's a great debater. We know that. That's true. Now in his 60s and out of shape,

Lay knew he had to get a team together to do his dirty work. Also, he probably didn't do it himself anyway. Thomas came up with the story that the barman, John Moody, was in fact Maggie's former lover and was now blackmailing her. That's the story that he came out with to tell people. Okay. He used this story to recruit Building Foreman, a guy he met called Lawrence Smith

and I love this, a former wrestler named John Buckingham. Oh my God. I guess you're just like, you're a big dude. Can you do something for me? Yeah, I got a problem, yeah. I have a problem only a big dude. I'm a big dude.

So he told them that he would pay them lots of money if they were to help him kidnap the horrible blackmailer John Moody who he said he's blackmailing my girlfriend, his ex-lover, he's being a horrible guy. and he'd make him stop, help me kidnap him, and then he said he'd get Moody to sign something saying that he was a blackmailer, and then he'd give Moody 500 pounds to leave England forever.

Okay. This is this concocted story is coming with. Sure. 500 pounds, you know, that's like a lot of money back then, right? Yeah, it's good money. I don't know if it's enough money to completely uproot one's life. Well, yeah, I mean, if the alternative is being killed, maybe. Suppose, yeah.

Suppose it's good to come away with anything. That's true. Thank you so much. You're very generous. So they thought that they were helping deal with an evil man that was taking advantage of this older lady. The wrestler, John Buckingham, thought they needed one more person,

and he recruited Lillian Bruce. It all seems needlessly complicated, but Lillian's role was to pose as a wealthy hostess and strike up a conversation with Moody at the hotel where he worked. She'd tell him that she needed a private bartender for a party she was throwing, and that she was interested in hiring him.

Okay. It's very complicated. Fair enough. So a bit of backstory, but in the end, Moody was lured to Lay's house where a rug was thrown over his head and he was tied up with a clothesline. Oh, my God.

Well, clearly the wrestling influence is coming through on this one, yeah. Buckingham jumped on him from a 10-foot ladder, hit him with a belt. They had an announcer the entire time. Ladies and gentlemen. That's so good. Yeah, The Undertaker came in and chokeslam.

So, yeah, it's gone from this incredible elaborate story, you know, like Ocean's Eleven style. Everyone's got their role to throw a rug on his head. It's terrible. So then the wrestler John Buckingham and Lillian Bruce left. They've done their part of the job, leaving Moody tied up in a closed line with Thomas Lay and Foreman Lawrence Smith. They're the last two with. Moody.

Cut to last two, did you say? Like, Aval? Cut to November 30, 1946. When a local dog walker

found John Moody's body. Always a dog walker. I know. I was, yes. Never walk your dog early in the morning, which you were doing this morning.

I do a couple of times a week with a group of friends. Just last week, so probably once or twice a week, I catch up with like, There's like five of us and three dogs. And we walk at 7 a.m. At the moment, 7 a.m. is dark.

And just last week, friend of the show, Michelle Brazier said, we're going to find a body one day. Oh, right. As she handed out coffee? So I was like, oh, yeah, you're probably right. You're probably right. You will. Yeah.

It'll be us. Oh, my goodness. It's always joggers. Yeah. People walk in their dogs. They've just launched a season of NCIS Sydney. Yeah. Really?

It could be you. Could be. Finding the body at the start of the episode. Yeah. buckle up. Yeah. It's often dog walkers or like a young couple looking for a secluded spot to make out.

And then one of them sort of slips down the hill a bit and they go, it's okay, I'm good down here. What the heck is skull? Oh my God. Fantastic. Love that show. So this dog walker found John Moody's body in a chalk pit or a quarry where they dig up chalk.

Chalk pit as a baffling thing until the explanation. I actually googled it to I was like, I need to know what I'm looking at. You know, sort of like you see like the White Cliffs of Dover type stuff? It's like they've dug out that kind of thing in Surrey. This was 30 miles away from Thomas Lay's home. It quickly became evident that the man, Moody, had been murdered elsewhere and he'd been dumped in the chalk pit.

And it was quickly dubbed by the papers as the chalk pit murder. Oh, very creative. Yeah. It's a good name, though. Yeah, I like it. Even though technically incorrect because he wasn't murdered there. Yeah, that's true. body dump.

Yeah. Okay, let's be serious. Were there fact-checking journalism back then? I don't think so. There's no ethics in it. Yeah. Unlike now. The autopsy revealed Moody had been badly beaten and then strangled with a rope, which is pretty

awful. Yeah. That's a rough way to go. How was he left? Sorry, when the wrestler left, how, what was his condition again? He was tied up in a close line with a rubber-up. It's weird. It's strangled.

Yeah. Yeah. That's weird that they, I mean, they had him. I don't know why they needed to beat the shoes. shit if they were going to kill them, you know, they got to have tied up in the rug already. Why beat the shit out of him, you know? Yeah.

Why assume your mistress is, you know, fair not of things. You know, fair not. It was. A lot of wise. Yeah. John Buckingham, the former wrestler, saw the news of the murder in the press and he actually went to the police to tell

them that Lay had paid him 200 pounds to kidnap Moody. Buckyam said that once at Lay's house, they were met by the foreman, Lawrence Smith, and that he and Lillian had left Moody tied up with Thomas Lay and the foreman Lawrence Smith. And then he's like, after that, I don't know what happened. But I've come forward because he told me he was just going to get him to sign a confession. I didn't know they'd kill him.

However, the foreman Lawrence gave police a different story, claiming that both he and Buckingham tied up and gagged Moody before leaving the man alive with Thomas Lay. He's like, no, I wasn't there at the end. It was just Thomas and the guy in it tied up. So he said he had nothing to do with the murder. And Lay had done all the violence, all the killing. Meanwhile, Thomas Lay completely tonight. any involvement.

He was like, I've never heard of the guy. I don't know anything about it at all. Really? I didn't expect him to do that. Yeah, that's weird. I thought he would have fussed up, you know, immediately. He seems like a person with a guilty conscience. Witnesses were actually able to place the foreman Lawrence Smith in the car.

He had rented a few days before the murder at the chalk pit where John Moody's body was found. So they saw him in the area a few days beforehand, which proved that he knew they planned to murder. Moody and that they planned to dump him there. He was scouting out a dumping location. So people were like, okay. So you knew about the murder.

Maybe the other guys didn't. Yeah, you definitely did. Former wrestler Buckingham could not be identified by any witnesses and he agreed to testify against Smith and Lay. Oh, boy. If he was, if they, you know, you don't charge me, I'll be your witness, which he was. And they were both charged with murder, Smith and Thomas Lay. The trial for the chalk pit murder was a worldwide media sensation.

A former Australian federal politician and New South Wales Minister for Justice was on trial for a brutal and bloody murder. Yeah, that's pretty grim. Yeah. That's so weird, because with the stuff with the temperance thing, I would have assumed being Minister for Justice, he had a strong sense of justice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It didn't strike me as the sort of person who would say one thing and do another.

I know. Yeah. I'm shocked. It is weird. It is weird. Australia was shocked. We're appalled. Absolutely.

A nation is hurting. Who can we trust? Prosecutor Anthony Hawke was. reported in the Adelaide advertiser at the time to have said that, quote, the victim Moody appears to have been a perfectly harmless and decent man, but Lay got it into his head that he was engaged in an intrigue with Mrs. Brooke. Oh. He was his partner.

Yeah. He accused her of carrying on with her son-in-law and another man lodging in the house. His suspicions then fixed on Moody and became an obsession. So it sounds like he was like, you're cheating on me with him. No, you're cheating on me with him. Oh, it's him, and he was the last one. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to wrap him up in a carpet.

In the end, the jury only needed to deliberate for 55 minutes before finding Lay and Smith guilty of the murder of Moody. That was just because if it's over like half an hour, they have to feed you. So they're like, let's just like, let's just start some time, wrap it up, wrap it off, get some burritos. Yeah, bring in the burritos. And then let's get out of him. We're going to need more time. I like how sloppy he got over time. The first one disappears mysteriously.

fell off a boat, bee stings, and then we beat him up in a carpet. Well, I reckon he's like, he's getting somebody else to do all the other ones and they're getting away with it

really smoothly and then the first time he has a crack through himself, caught immediately. That's true. An embarrassing attempt. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, hit him and then, um. So both of them found guilty and they were both actually sentenced to death. The date set for just six weeks later on May 8th, which doesn't give you much time

to appeal back in the month. Quick turnaround. But I like there's a certain poetry to, in his early days as the Minister of Justice or whatever, where he got that guy hanged. Yeah, you're saying that's certain. No, he's getting hanged himself. That is nice. That is nice. I'm happy about that.

Yeah, me too. Lay's wife had reportedly flown out from Australia to attend the trial, but they'd been living apart for many, many years. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Or she's there for support. I don't know. True, true.

I'd be there to watch him. Yeah, fair enough. I can imagine myself being a very spiteful ex-wife. Your dream role. My dream is to be a third wife. Oh, that's good. And then a spiteful ex-wife. You want to be up to back in the courthouse

when guilty, you know, is ready. You can just smile. You can just give him a... Big glasses on. Huge. You yell at, suck shit. Suck you, Darren. That'd be great to yell

as he's having his last words. Interrupt him, yeah. Two doctors examined Lay and reported that he had been suffering from paranoia when he had plotted the murder and he was declared to be officially insane. No. Yeah, three days before Lay was to hang, his sentence was commuted to life in prison, as was his accomplice Lawrence Smith. So he was shown the mercy that he didn't show when he was in Smith. I'm kind of glad Lawrence Smith, but I mean, Lauren Smith still killed a guy. Yeah, yeah.

He wasn't a good dude. Yeah, you're right. But I guess he thought that the dude was blackmailing someone. Doesn't seem proportional, though? No, not really. Yeah. Thomas Lay was transferred to Broadmoor criminal lunatic asylum where he was unable to escape the metaphorical hangman for too much longer

because just two and a half months later, he suffered a massive stroke and died at the age of 66. Oh, wow. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke. I kind of wish he'd served more time in prison, though. Yeah, me too. You know, he didn't really start. suffer that much.

Yeah. Yeah. He is said to have been, I love that this is like the weirdest title he could ever give someone, the wealthiest person to ever be imprisoned at Broadmoor. At the time, the Daily Mail said the police estimated his fortune at 50,000 pounds,

which is 1.5 million pounds today. Okay. So he held on to a fair chunk of change at the end there. Yeah. After his murder conviction and death, many of the dots began to be connected to all his opponents that seemed to have mysteriously died or disappeared. Yeah.

And now it's widely accepted that Lay had a hand in, any, if not all of those deaths as well. That's so funny. But obviously, he never went to trial or anything because it was after his death, and they went, ah, yeah, this makes sense. Imagine if it is just a bunch of coincidences, though. But now it's just, it's believed across the board that he was involved. Yeah, that's right.

But the beasting one is weird. That does stand out, kind of. It is. That one just seems like, was that just, I mean. It seems like a husband died. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's about it. Because it's hard to, do you reckon you could kill someone with bees?

Well, that's the thing, too. I was like, how do you got to, surely you've got to be stung a lot. Or have a really bad, yeah, exactly. If you know someone's got a terrible allergy,

all you need is one B. But if you're not allergic. What about if somebody's on the toilet, you open the door, throw the Bive in, close the door, put a chair up against it, and you just let nature take its claws.

That might be how I'd kill someone with bees. Yeah, that's, oh, that's nature. In, in a, in the realm of attempts to assassinate someone, that does seem like one of the harder ways to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Pushing someone off a boat's pretty easy.

You're killing someone with bees. I don't know how you'd do that. Yeah. I'll finish off with Thomas Lay's description from the official website for the Parliament of New South Wales. So basically every politician is on there. And I know Australians don't trust them,

but not many have a sentence like this in their bio. After his electoral defeat, went to England. This is all in like dot points. Promoted a million pound sweepstake. Was a wartime black marketeer. Convicted of a murder in 1947. in brackets of the chalkpit murder,

declared insane and committed to Broadmoor criminal lunatic asylum where he died. That's the end of his bio on the official New South Wales Parliament website. What an illustrious career, he left. So there he is one of the least trustworthy politicians you'll ever come across, Thomas Lay, who I was like, I think I'm going to call this episode.

And this was voted for by, I should say, by our Patreon supporters. I put up three topics. And this was, of course, chosen when I called it, Thomas Lay, dot, dot, dot, dot, the minister for murder. Oh my God, that's good. That's really good.

That's really good. Because I just came across this guy and I was like, I've got to do a report on him. I wrote him down a while ago. And I was like, I didn't do that much research because, you know, in case one of you do the topic one other time, Jess, and this didn't win. And then it wins. And I was like, great, I'll call it that. Fantastic. It started doing a bit of Googling.

I felt so proud of that. I realized that in the 70s not one, but two books were written about him called the minister from my other. I'm hack. I'm hack. Yeah, that's a shame. But still, I think I'll call the episode that because it sounds cool. Yeah, no, it sounds great. I think he had a pretty good life, though.

Like, he, this, he's sort of a success story in a way. You know, he went, he was a rags to riches story. Yeah. And he lied, cheated, steeled. Yeah. He stealed. He stealed. He stealed.

He stealed. He moited. He moited. He, for at least the next little while, he will have also lived longer than any of us. Yeah. That's true. Damn it. Yeah.

Like, even when he died, it wasn't, you know, nobody got him. He was in jail for like two years and then he didn't. No, two months. Two months. It was two months. And then it was just like really quick, you know, a very big stroke. Yeah. Tell you what, the guy goes to jail like he holds parliament.

Start with a clap and with a clap. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, Adam and Jackson, now we've got the formalities out of the way. That actually brings us to most people's favorite section of the show that is called the the fact quote or question, which if you're not familiar, actually has a jingle

that I think sounds a little something like this. Fact quote or question. Ding! Oh my God, that was awesome. That's incredible. Can I hear it again? No. That's okay.

I understand. I'll give him a bit. Yeah, that's enough. That's what he wanted. You were looking at me. Can I hear that bit again? Basically, this is a part of the show where we thank the people that support the show

on Patreon. people do that is go to patreon.com slash do go on pod. There's a bunch of rewards, including at different levels, I should say. You can be in our Facebook group. You hear about shows before anyone else. You get discounted tickets.

We do three bonus episodes a month. We give people shoutouts. And also, the people in the Sydney-Shimeberg Deluxe Memorial Package level. Rolls off the time. Get to submit a fact, quote, or question. Sometimes it's a brag or suggestion.

Okay. Or a recipe. Oh. It can be anything, really. That's awesome. A criticism. Their time. Yeah, fair enough.

No, let's not welcome criticism. No. I don't wish to grow. What about a witticism? Okay. Okay. All right. Fair enough.

And yeah, these people get to give themselves a title. Okay. As well as a factor quote or a question, etc. Jess, I believe you've got a few there. Yes, I do. Fact quotes of questions. Fact quotes and all questions. And usually, so this is usually Matt Stone, I'm like to say.

So we're fumbling. Fair enough. We're trying to work our way. It seems like you're doing awesome. Thank you. I appreciate it so much. I'm basically doing an impression of Matt. That's what I feel like I'm doing.

Like, what would Matt do? Okay, so if we're doing impressions of Matt, then I'll fuck up every second word. His excuses, and this is two of us too, we don't read them until we read them out loud. There's no proof reading here. There's no reading beforehand. And perfect, because the first one is from somebody

whose name Matt always butcher. So I will do that as well. So first up, from Jacobi de Angel. I'm pretty sure of that. That's right. Yeah, but... It's definitely Jacoby. Jacobi?

Jacobi? Jacobi. Yeah. As someone who hasn't seen the word written... The name written down. Names a word. 100% correct. Thank you so much.

Whatever. 100% correct. Thank you. And Jacoby's given himself the title, director of the Do Go On movie. Oh. And has given us a question. We love a question.

Oh, it's a long one. Oh, my God. It's long. Jacobi. It says, I'm back with another great Zambian fact. It's long again, okay. So I apologize in advance, Matt. Well, it's Jess, and I do not forgive you.

Okay. Oh, okay, yep, here we go. Strap in. Oh, my God, Jacoby, you were abusing the system here. This is so... It's supposed to be a question. I don't know where a question's going to come from. Let's find out.

World War I didn't officially end on the 11th hour of the 11th day on the 11th month in 1918 in France, but instead 14 days later in Zambia, which at the time called Northern Rhodesia, under British colonisation. The armistice was signed on the 11th of November but was not known to German Lieutenant Colonel Paul Emil von Little Vorbeck. That's man.

Lettow Warbeck. That's real name. I don't believe that's real. Well, he was the man known as the Lion of Africa. Okay. He had three. There's no other lines in Africa. It is so long.

It is so long. You can faff about with the others. I'm the kangaroo of Australia. I mean, come on. I've heard the best way to skim something is to just read the first sentence of every paragraph. Okay. So maybe it'll make sense if you do that. Okay, great.

He had 3,000 German troops and 11,000 African troops under his command when he captured the town of Kazimar on the 14th November 1918 and was finally made aware of the armistice by telegram from the town of Karbu, which was delayed three days due to celebrations. That's great you celebrate before passing on the message that the war is over. This event is the official cessation of arms for the great conflagration known as World War I. That is, you're padding for word countess. These can be short if you want them to. It's marked by the Shambeshi Memorial, which is a stone monolith with a plaque and a big cannon next to it. The general and his army were ordered to march 250 kilometres north to Mabala near the Zambian-Tanzanian border. the town was then known as Abercorn and marked the border for German East Africa.

This is, we keep going. On the 25th of November 1918, von Letton Vauberaubek agreed to a formal surrender and his militia were forced to throw their weapons into the nearby Lake Chiller. This marks the official end of World War I. I feel like he said this marks the official end of World War I few times. He's doing his own little report, it seems like. Sneaking in a second episode. Yeah.

This is great. I also said question, there's no question. World War I Surrendom monument still stands in Mabala today as a reminder. I'll finish with this great quote from an article posted by Quartz. So there's a quote in there, but no question. And there's also a fact, which is everything else. Yeah. You got tricked into having them on as a guest.

That's what's happening. You son of a bitch. We read long enough we have to pay Jacoby for the interview. How much time have I got on? I can get this in 10 seconds. Yeah, in the guest list, you should put us to and then there was Jacobi. Nearly two million Africans were involved in World War I, yet common historical accounts and subsequent commemorations have erased their sacrifice. When the war ended, Africans were reminded that they had no power, even though some held guns for their colonial leaders.

They were denied representation at the Treaty of Versailles and Germany's colonies were divvied among the victors with no input from the millions of Africans impacted. Then just says, cheers, Jacoby and Margaret. I've just remembered, so Margaret, who Jacoby is signing off with her, is from Zambia. Yes. And that's why we're getting a few Zambian facts. That's right. That's cool. So that is genuinely interesting, just quite long.

But it's not a question. And that's where I take Umbrej. My favorite part is that it took three days to pass on because they were partying. Yeah. Whoa! We're going to enjoy it, you know. Thank you so much, Jacoby. Our next fact, quote, a question comes from Daniel Ryan.

Daniel's given themselves a title, Master is semi-useful, math info. Okay. So maybe, not in English, probably Master In. Yes, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.

I was thinking it was like some sort of like, you know, computer generated name. Master is semi-useful math info. And Daniel's given us a fact. This is a fact for Dave. It's a math fact. It is a useful fact,

but Jess may even call it a fun fact. I doubt it. Background part, the relation of miles to kilometers is surprisingly close to Pi. Apparently only, like nine meters off. What?

Pi also has a relationship to the Fibonacci sequence. This means that you can estimate miles to kilometers based on the Fibonacci numbers. Three miles is about five kilometers. Five miles is about eight kilometers. Eight miles is about 13 kilometers. Thirteen miles is about

21 kilometers. And obviously you can go backwards as well. Five K to three mile. Obviously, huge complex numbers are still complicated, but this is still pretty useful on a small scale. Daniel, that is not a fun fact. I'd heartily disagree I thought that was fun

But I think that that's actually useful to us Because frequently we're doing a topic Where it's either in kilometers or miles Yeah Fair, fair And either way we have to convert for ourselves Or for our overseas listeners Who are like, I don't know

Yeah, what's this? And me, it's me going, how, what is that? Jed, Jess, you're like, if you hear pounds, you just switch off. Yeah, I'm like, I'm gone. Never mind. Pounds of what? Yeah, I don't know.

But if we knew three miles about 5K, 5 miles about 8K, Yeah. We, that would really put it into perspective. You got to know the Fibonacci numbers, right? Yeah. There's too much learning to do. Yeah, that's like a whole other realm of numbers.

Google can do this for me. Yeah. Or I could just take a guesstimate. Yeah. Okay, that sounds long. Yeah. In my head, it's now long. Thank you, Daniel.

Next, we have Cody Bancroft. And Cody Bancroft has given themselves a title, Supervisor of Laughing While Uncomfortable. Oh, okay. Oh, and Cody has given us a challenge. Whoa. Love that. Have we had a challenge before? That's exciting.

I think throwing down the gormwood? I love this. That's awesome. Yeah, what is it? Let's see. Hello from Washington. Love the pod and truly look forward to it every week. I've been going through the back catalogue and I am loving the fact there are so many to help me get through some of the more boring parts of my week.

After hearing Matt say so many times he just reads these out without pre-reading them, I have a challenge for you three. But mostly Matt, fucking hell. Here in Washington, we have quite a few cities that most people from out of state have a hard time pronouncing. So I figure I'd give you guys, I'd have you guys give it a shot. The list is a little long. Give it a look. I can't wait to hear you, Matt, butcher these names. Oh, it's a really long list.

Oh, what do we just pick a couple? Pick a few of these. Can you say the result, Dave? I've just brought it up just so I can have a look. Okay, Camano. That sounds right. Chaney. That's got to be Chaney.

Yeah, sure. Semamish. Felita. Issaquah. Skok. There's no down there. S-K-O-K-K-O-K. There's also Skokamish.

Sellers in there twice. Sela. S-E-L-H. S-E-L-H. Sounds like it should be Sala. Selah. So this one would be Yakima or Yakima. Yakima.

Yakima. Yakima. Yakima. Yeah. Yeah. Tacoma? That's got to be Tacoma. Yeah, Tacoma, I believe, is actually correct.

I think I know that place. I love, listeners obviously aren't getting this, but I love that, as both of you say them, you're looking at the two of us with such desperation. Please. Is this right? We could validate any of the answers you're giving. I'm also just, I went for the approach of just say it confidently.

Yeah, that's smart. And by confidence, I've kind of gone aggressive. This is probably wrong, but if it's wrong, I don't want to be right. Yeah. Yeah. Get fucked. That's great. Right.

Scaramania. But there's also... Skamokawa. Skamokawa. Oh, that sounds great, too. Skamokawa. That's great. Skomikoa.

That's a fun place. Pull yallop. Pull yallop. Pull yallop. Pull yallop. Is that a place or a command? Pull yelop. What do you do about yell that to you?

Gundy head, you're like, what is he saying? I would try to do a push-up weird. I'm pretty confident I get shot. Yeah. Paul yelop. Bang. This is fun, but I've got... No idea if we're on the money here or not.

I'm going to send Cody a list of Australian town names. Send them back. You try. Woola Maloo. It's silly. Tuck Willa. I love a challenge though. That's a Washington one.

Feel free to send through all the challenges. That's a great idea. Yeah. Thanks, Cody. And finally, Lauren Joyner has given themselves the title, The Queen of O overthinking. Right there with you, sister. You can be a challenge for the moniker.

of your queen I'm a princess and Lauren has given us a question The question is what is your favourite slash weirdest slash most surprising Celebrity Encounter Oh okay And when people ask this question We love them to answer the question themselves

And she has done that One time in 2008 I was stopped at a crosswalk In Los Angeles Windows down Blasting cold chisel I had recently discovered them I don't think they had much of her presence in the States

I do I learned the good word. A dude crossing in front of me stopped for a beat and turned around to see where the music was coming from. It was Russell Crow. That is because he would absolutely

know the chisd. Oh my God. He would be like, what that? Who is playing cold chisel? Oh my God. Yeah. That's awesome. Saturday night.

Russell Crow is like, he kind of nodded to himself and kept walking. I'm assuming he was surprised to hear flame trees coming out of a non-fancy car in Beverly Hills. That is truly excellent.

Like just nodding to himself like the word should be. And I love this as well. She goes, I have some other good ones from growing up in L.A., but that one is more on theme for an Australian-based podcast. How good is that? Any celebrity encounters? Celebrity encounters?

Well, he's a pretty despicable man, so I'm not happy about it, but I did meet Ron Jeremy once, the famous born star. Really? It was when I was, I was working at Sexpo years ago, and I saw Ron Jeremy,

and I was like, I've got to get a photo with Ron Jeremy, but the thing about the photo is my camera sucked on my phone at the time. So it's really blurry like a big foot photo. And it's just me and Ron Jeremy next to each other. And he looks so sad. Oh, no. But yeah, I have that. I think about that occasionally.

I have a blurry photo of me and Ron Jeremy just on my phone. Big foot style photo of a very hairy man. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's probably my stranger celebrity in camera. That's a good one. I, a Australian comedian Greg Fleet. I was once with a bunch of me and a bunch of friends,

and this is, if you know me very well, you know this is absolutely the sort of scenario I would often find myself in. I'm with a bunch of my friends, and we're talking about tanks on a tram because we are very interested in tanks. Okay. Tank chat.

Yeah, tank chat. Tank chat. And Greg Fleet stood up as he was going to get off the tram and he'd quite clearly, because we were not quiet, he'd quite clearly heard the conversation. and he just quickly inserted like his favorite tank and why. That is so good. My response when I turned around and recognized him was,

you're Greg Fleet. And he got off the job. And he's like, you're not even listening to my tank. Great. He looked a little put out. I thought we were just talking tank. He was tank chat. It was very funny.

Like he was obviously what he had said, I wasn't properly paying attention to because I was like, oh my God. That's so funny. I just like you had a chance to be like, stick around. Like, if you want to talk tanks, like the tram's going to keep going, brother. Let's chat it up. Tank chat.

Yeah. That's awesome. One time I was at an airport in Scotland about eight years ago and I looked across the lounge as we're waiting to board and sitting there and like asleep in an upright position. I went to my girlfriend at the time. I said, oh my God, that's Susan Boyle. You know the singer Susan? It wasn't actually. It was her.

That's awesome. That rules. And she was just sitting up asleep. and sort of like, you know, she must have been so tired, she was sort of passing out a bit. And then she, yeah, just got on the same flight as us. So if the plane had gone down, it would have been all Susan Boyle. Yeah. It would have been you and Susan Boyle taken out at the same time.

We usually don't travel at the same plane. Yeah, that's a real big bop of Eddie Valen. Yeah. Wow. She was flying economy? Amazingly, yes. Wow. The Susan Boyle.

Was anybody else looking at her? No, I think that. I think you just saw a Scottish woman. It was definitely Susan Boyle. I think that the hostess is sort of like took her to her seat a bit. She did not look very well, I will say. Okay, interesting. Because she was sort of nodding off a bit mid sit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, but it was very funny. Like, oh my God. But then what do you say? Like, I don't need to say, hello, Susan Boyle. Yeah, what am I going to do about her? Yeah.

Well, if she wasn't looking too well, could it be that instead of being Susan Boyle, she was just a Scottish woman. Yeah. made were being because she needed a little help. Delivered to their chair. He's so sure, though. I'm 100% sure it was Susan Boyle.

I am 100% sure it was Susan Boyle. It was very funny. Do you think, because I keep thinking, you're on the same plane. Say the plane crashes. It's like a desert island situation. Do you bring it up? At that point, yeah.

But is it the kind of thing where actually we've got to care about surviving while you're collecting coconut? You're like, hey, Susan Boyle. Casually bring it up to just be like, I also dreamed of time gone by, for example. But yes. Would you like me to go get us a fish or something?

I thought you were about to say when you were like, oh, this is about survival. I thought you were about to be like, well, we need a check, are you Susan Boyle? Because otherwise, we're not going to care too much. Exactly, we will let you go. You're on your own. Honestly, if you crash under Desert Island.

You're not as scary than what I was thinking. When I wasn't flying there, that sounds wild. Are you the real Susan Boyle? Because if you're not, I'm eating you. I'm not going to give up my rations for you If you're not famous celebrity, Susan Boyle. You'd be happy, though, if you were on a desert island with a celebrity, because you're like, people aren't going to come for me,

but they might come and try and find Susan Boyle, you know? Yeah, that's true. There's any double the amount of planes. Yeah. To look for Susan Boyle. Yeah. Simon Cowell himself flying his friend Susan Boyle. So funny as well, if it's not Susan Boyle and you're just relaxing on the beach.

You're like, I'm not concerned. They're coming for Suez. They'll be here to pick up Susie any day now. I keep telling you, I'm not Susan Boyle. Yeah, whatever. All right, Susan. And this is, yeah, well, this would have been 2012, maybe, 20. Wow.

So. That's a good one. I don't know if I've heard that story before. And that was she won, if people don't know, I don't know how big she's in America. She won Britain's Got Talent by singing this incredible version of I Dream to Dream from Leamiz. And this is probably only a few years after that. So Subbo was still. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, Jess, have you had any encounters? I can't believe I nearly forgot this. But, and this is a fairly recent one. It was earlier this year, I nearly hit John Cena with my car. That's wow! That's amazing! I didn't nearly hit him because I'm a very safe driver.

Sure. But I was, because he and Zach Ephron filming a movie in Melbourne, and I was driving to work at the radio station on a weekend, pulling into like a cafe near work. And I'm coming up this little city street and two people sort of stepped out. And I was like slowing down anyway because I saw them about to cross. But they weren't looking. were looking the other way and I was like,

right, fucking idiots. And then as they turned to like, they saw me and waved like, oh, sorry and thank you. I was like, that's John fucking Sina.

And then I went into the cafe. I'm still a bit shocked that John Sater just walked out in front of me. And like, hey, how are you? I was like, hi,

I just saw John Sina. And they were like, yeah, he was just here having a coffee. And I was like, oh my God. Oh, wow.

They're hitting like the panty button under the desk because you sound. She's crazy. He was just here. He was really nice. I was like, oh my god, I googled it, and apparently he's doing a film with Zach Efron.

And they're like, oh my God, I love Zach Gaffron. So then it was just me and the staff at this cafe getting our phones out, Googling like Zach Efron movie. And then I had to transition into ordering a coffee. And that was tricky. And that was tricky. We're all having fun, but I am thirsty. But I am late for work.

If I bet John Cena, absolutely, that'd be my day. I don't think I could do anything else. You don't need to do anything else. You don't need to do anything else. You are remembering exactly. That day is done. I just remembered one other really quick one which was once, many years ago

when I was walking in South Yarra to Channel 10 where I was working at the time, I was walking down the street and I swear to you, John Cleese walked past and at the same time the Google street car drove past and I checked, it was in front of South Tehrara Library I checked that the Google Maps view

every day for a year because I was thinking imagine if I was on there with John Cleese. It's a very tall, very distinct looking man you could tell. They never put it up so the camera was sadly not on but I looked every day to be like I want to be on Google with John Cleese if you go on Google Maps you can go back through the years so like you could I reckon give it another search now because they sometimes go from 2020 like 2023 now are we in 2023 yeah back to 2009 like you can do the whole so I reckon it's worth checking

well if you look at the old um stupid old studios um broden is waving out the window that's so good That is very funny. That rules. Did he know that the Google street car was coming? Yeah, you would often, because their office window looked straight out onto the street. And so often anytime people arrived, you'd see Broden because that's where he would think. Oh, I see. Be staring out of a window.

And so he saw it and had time to, like, get into position. That's great. It's so good. That is good. You seen those images of the Google Street View car hitting somebody somewhere? I don't know if it's still up because it, yeah, people found out about it or whatever. but it's like shot of a person in front of the car shot of the person falling down

shot of if you like turn it around and look the person's tumbling behind and fall on going to get by the Google Street view guys I can't believe that is wild isn't it they uploaded that but they didn't upload John Cleese I know what the hell are you thinking I mean I am looking back at the old ones now yeah can you see it

have you seen though it's very cute the one of is that you I thought so at first two no it's not I wish that that's from 24. That looked a bit like you. We still have other stuff to do in the Patreon. I know, sorry, sorry.

Let's continue on. That is a great question. I love that. I'd love to hear other people's celebrity encounters. Yeah, that's great. Stuff like that when you like, you know, you see someone one time and it just sticks with you forever. They're not thinking about it ever again.

But for you, like, it's the day you nearly ran over John Cena. You're thinking about that forever. I really forgot it just now. I was like, who have I met? Who have I seen? Thank you again to Lauren, Cody, Daniel and Jacoby. The next thing we need to do is just give some shoutouts

to some very special people who support us over at Patreon.com slash do you go on pod. Yes, that's right. So we read out their name and then... Get off Google Images. Oh, God, I want to see John Glees!

It just usually comes up with a game like a little, like a fun nicknamey type thing we can give each person that we can all join in on. Do we have any... Often it relates to the topic, but I mean, what about he was the minister for murder? Oh, that's great.

That's a great idea. A fake minister. Fake ministry. Great. Do you want me to kick it off? Please, because I'm still on Google Maps. Yeah, that wasn't subtle at all, mate. Oh, my God.

I can see your little fingers scrolling all over the place. You're not there. November 2016. Okay, this could be out. It drove past. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be on Google and John Cleese. What a day. You might be able to print that out and pretend like you know him.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, here we are just hanging out in front of the South York Library. Our faces are blurred, obviously, because you can tell it's him. Okay, so first up, I would love to thank from, oh, address unknown, so we can only assume deep within the fortress of the malls. Absolutely, a mole person for sure, and we appreciate them. Zach Lynch, minister for... Mousetraps.

Oh, nice, nice. I mean, Parliament's a big place, I'm sure they've probably got. Typically, give that to a cat, but, you know, no, no, no, Zach's got it. Zach's got this one. Thank you, Zach. I would also love to thank from Swindon in Great Britain. Russell Lake.

Russell Leake. Adam, any thoughts on the ministry for Russell Leake? Obviously, it would be a ministry for state secrets. Okay. I'm ironic name that they've been given. Yes, yes. Russell Leak, but I won't. This is what I could say every time.

What people at home didn't get to experience was the lean and like the wink I'm Russell leak, but I won't. Oh, the tip. I'll put the glasses. It's all the tip of the glasses as well sounds like he will. This is typically what a wink means. So you're really not sure about this guy. But yeah, leak by name, not by nature.

That is fantastic. I would also love to thank from Shelby in North Carolina. I don't want to hear any facts about it. We don't have to do a fact about it. Matt usually does the fact about North Carolina, but you don't need to know that that's where Venus flytaps are from. Oh! I would love to thank you.

Thank Daniel Boprey. Bill Prey. Daniel Bopray, minister for funk. Hell yeah. You need one. You got to have one. You got to have one. You got to have one minister for fun.

That is so good. Fuck yeah. I'll do a couple more than you bring it home. Okay, great, great. Okay, great. I would also love to thank from Beckenham in Western Australia, Jackie Parsons. Jackie Parsons.

Minister for Munch For munch Or munching Munchies Minister for Munchies Jackie knows where all the good snacks are And finally for me

I would love to thank from Oh Location Unknown Oh my God We can only assume to it Within the Fortress of the Moles All Scotland All Scotland

I would love to thank Phaline O'Bany That's an incredible Yeah, it's really. O'Banyans, awesome. Minister for remote control cars. Oh, an important job. There's a really fast petrol power.

They're like genuinely just small cars. That is a portfolio I would like to happen. Agreed. Dave, do you want to thank some people. I would love to, this is from Amsterdam in the Netherlands. Thank you so much to Hayden Straz or Hayden Strasz. Strasz. Minister for Meats.

Whoa. Love a minister for meats. Wow, a minister for meat. I was a bit of butcher, that's what I'd call it. It's a great butcher name. It is. I was thinking more for like chakouterie boards. Oh, nice.

Sweetmeats. Come down. I'm changing my desired portfolio. That's the one I want. You can do two portfolios. Yeah, you can have many. In conjunction with the minister for cheese. Oh, I love that.

Thank you from North Melbourne now. It's Adam Hamato. Oh. Adam Hamato. One Adam to another. Minister for... Minister for my fellow Adams. Yeah, Minister for Adams.

Somebody's got to take care of him. That's great. There's so many. We have... Adam Bant. Missed out. Yeah, thanks for nothing. Nah, good on your.

Well, great. I mean, you got to... Do you feel represented now? You've got a minister? Finally, yes. What are the issues facing Adams? Well, we often get the... I'm sick and tired of people making Adam and Eve jokes.

Okay, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Banned. Work closely with the Minister for Eve's. to sort something out. If you say, if you meet someone named Adam

and you say, where's Eve? That's jail. That's a jailable offense. That's great. I mean, I'd vote for that. Yeah, me too. I get it because I have a dog named goose

and people always go, where's Maverick? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Put that on the bill. Put that on the bill. That'll be included in the clause in the, and where's law.

Yes. Thank you. Yeah, that's good, that's good. I would like to thank from Hindmarsh in Western Australia, Dwayne Sprague. Good name, Swain. Minister for left-handers. Oh, nice, important. You're a left-hand...

Either of you left-handed? I don't think so. Okay, but... Never left to write. Mime holding a pencil for us. Yeah, you're right-handed. Thanks, man. Thanks for getting me there.

I don't think so. It's such a funny answer I just thought If Adam gets to be You know, looked after Yeah, of course So should I I agree

I absolutely think you should be represented The rest of the 10% of the population That can't use scissors We're so sorry For what you go through Yeah, it sucks Every time But Dwayne's there for you

And finally I would like to thank From Paisley In the greatest of Britain's I would like to thank Is that Scotland's Scotland outside Glasgow there? Because remember we once met a great listener, Ross. Do you remember Ross?

Yes. It is. It is in the lowlands of Scotland. Yes. Ross was from Paisley, I seem to remember. And he was the one who described every other place in England and Scotland as a shithole. What a shit hole? Everything else, but Paisley all good.

That's great. And that's good news for Gary B. Gary B. Gary B. Gary B. Minister for getting it done. Someone's going to do it Someone's going to do it

Someone's going to get it done Statistically speaking Someone's getting done The saying I've got to get stuff done Is usually like procrastinating So I also like to imagine Gary Just walking around Parliament Just with a mug

Looking busy Does the mug say getting it done on it? It's very cool So thank you to those people Gary Dwayne Adam Hayden Phelene Jackie Daniel Russell and Zach

Big shout out Thank you so much to our ministers Congratulations to the Portfolios, near your cabinet. You would think it's done, but it's not. We have one final thing we have to do, and that is to welcome some people into the Trip Ditch Club. Now, what happens here is these people have been on the shout-out level or above

for three straight years. They've never fallen off. We've already shouted out to them previously. So to enshrine them forever, we welcome them into our Hall of Fame slash Hangout Zone slash Airport-style lounge that we call the Trip-Ditch Club. And basically inside, there's food, there's drinks, there's fun, there's games, there's lovely things to do and play.

That should have rhymed, but I didn't. It was like the non-rhyming opening of Play School. It's kind of panicked. And Jess, organises some food and drinks. I organized a live band. Jess, what are we eating this week? Poison. Okay, nice.

Cactus-style poison. Yeah, that pickle pear. Yeah, I don't know, I've just got pickled pears. Okay, that's probably better than poison, yeah. But one in eight is, poison. I like a bit of a gamble with my food. It's a Russian roulette.

It's fun. Yeah. Fantastic. And then for drink, it's lemonade. Nice. That makes sense. Makes sense. Because we don't drink.

Yeah. Yeah. Lips are touch liquor, she'll never touch mine or whatever they used to say. Keep your lips away from my lips. What do you mean they used to say, Jackson? Well, sorry, we're still to say now. As we all say. Yeah, of course.

You also book a band, Dave. Yes, you're never going to believe it. What? A very ironic booking. because I booked these months in advance. I never know what the topic is going to be. But I've actually booked the French electronic duo Justice. Oh, my God.

What are the odds? Bit of irony there. Yeah. So, yeah, we're going to be listening to their Grammy nominated albums, which would be fantastic. Wow. Sounds great. Okay, well, I'll read out some names.

And their Grammy Award winning album. Oh. Wow. Or their Grammy Award winning remix of the MGMT song, Electric Feel. Yeah, Justice have done a few fun remixes. Which won the Grammy Award for Best Remixed Recording in Brackney. Rackets, non-classical? Okay.

Who's remixing classical? That they have to specify. I mean, Pendulum Remixed the ABC News thing. That was so good. That was so great. It's really great. It's really fun. Okay, I'll read the names.

Oh, yeah, so basically, Jess reads the names, and then I give them a bit of a hype-up. Oh, nice, right. On their name, if you can think you're anything better, please jump in because often I go a little blank. This section can take three hours. No, you're great. Okay. You know what that is? that's Matt getting in your head.

Yeah, Matt gives me stick. Oh, dude, you don't need that. Old Mr. Every two words. Giving you stick, that guy. Unbelievable. Good riddance, I say. Good riddance, I say. Collins

Collins! Yeah, see? I love these guys. That's very good. Jeff usually hives me out but now I've got two hype men. You hope them will hype you. Thank you.

You're perfect. You get it. I would also have to thank from Tel Aviv. Fantastic. Lead Herman. Come on. You got this, Dave. Sure am Glead to see you.

I thought you were going to be. You're a liar. I was going to say, I ain't lie adding when I'm telling you that you're my favorite guy here tonight. Okay. But unfortunately I didn't. From Portland, I would love to thank Lee. Lee Schwiedeman.

Why did a man so goddamn good? Yes. You've sent me Lee tonight. Who? Who is this guy? This guy's on fire. Oh, my God. Okay, a couple more from Perth, Western Australia.

I would love to welcome in Holly Bradley. Oh, good golly, it's Holly Bradley. Whoa! Hey, it's me, your cousin, Marvin, Marvin Barry. You know that new sound you've been looking for? Well, listen to this. Good golly, it's holly. That's good stuff.

And finally, from Aberdeen, I would love to welcome Hannah Love Day. I do love this day! Yes, but I've got to meet Hannah! Oh, I'm going to remember this day for the rest of my life. This is maybe the best day of my life, absolutely. We did it. Welcome in. Can I have another go with Lead Herman?

I just felt wrong. What about? Encore! I am determined to meet Learad Hermann. Whoa! Thank you so much. I mean, we don't get many people from Tel Avivki in this section. No, that's cool.

I felt like a bottle. Do you have anything for... Lead Herman? I don't think I could do better than what you just did. Determined. To meet him. It's very good. Determined.

There's got to be something there. Come on. Determined. That's what they did. That's what the standing ovation. You were going to get to standing ovation regardless. Welcome in Hannah, Holly, Lee. and Jamie on a little note as well

Jamie should have been read out a year ago so an extra special welcome to Jamie Jamie let me just say Collins Collins Collins Collins I can't remember the rest of the words anyway I was worth waiting four years for I wish I had flowers Yeah yeah thank you so much

You could throw your underwear at him if you wanted to That's true Make a fine moss Oh man Okay that does bring us to the end of the show That's it. Thank you so much for coming out. Anytime. Thanks for having us. Yeah.

Now, there's plenty of fantastic sanspents opportunities, sanspents-based opportunities, that is, to listen to your voices on the podcast airwaves. That is true. I'm in a bunch of podcasts. I'm in a podcast called Plumbing the Death Star that's dumb as hell. I'm in a podcast called Thumb Crams.

It's about video games and dumb as hell. I'm in a podcast called baseless speculation. That's about new movies. And guess what? It's dumb as that. But they were all largely listenable. I was recently on an episode of Best of Speculation when we're talking about the new Kenneth Bran of Poirot movie.

Oh, that's true. That was a very fun episode. That was very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great movie. The new one? Yeah. Have you seen it?

Yeah. I loved it. No, the new new one, a murder, what is it called? A murder in Venice. Yeah. Oh. With the one way in the book, somebody dies bobbing. This is the greatest day of my life.

Yeah, there's a third one. No, not yet. And it's like horror themed. Somebody dies bobbing for apples. It's based on, we talked about this in the episode. It's based on one of her, like, least. popular novels written when everybody was like, she fell off.

It's called A Haunting in Venice. I didn't know there was a third one. Tina Faye's in it for some reason. I'm going to have a heart attack. This sounds like the greatest thing of all time. Coming September this year based on Halloween party. That's right. Dave, movie date.

Oh, see you there. I think in that episode we also talk about what actors are like a period piece actors and what actors are. So like Tina Faye, she's not from the past. No. She's from the nail We couldn't think of any others And then that night

I sent you a photo I said how about this guy David Dukovny Oh yeah That guy couldn't be in the past And then we found a I think he could You think you could

When give me the era for David I'm thinking like he could be in a Jane Austen Really? Dachovny Brush his hair Yeah Yeah absolutely

I reckon as well You know my My prediction for the best Period piece that David Dukovny could be in 60s 60s Yeah I think 30s

and up That's what he could do Anything prior Nah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I did find a photo of him being in... He's in Chaplin, that's right?

Oh, yeah. Let me show you a photo of what Docovenny looks like in period. And I do not think he pulls this off. He's being a cameraman, assistant, I believe. We go, images. Let's bring him up. Computer. That's him on the right hand side there.

Yeah, okay. He looks ridiculous. It doesn't work, you're right. She's not from the Paz. You're right. A bundle of dynamite. Yeah, he's not. just like everyone did in the past

take it around back then that's the kind of fun stuff I can hear on based on specialization that's good fun and Adam I do all of the role playing and sort of fantasy content for Science Spans Radio so on the website if you go under the Adventures tab I'm pretty much everything there but D&D is for nerds

specifically we are the nerds and it is D&D fantastic DN or D ampazan both are acceptable. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We also do a series

called Beyond the Map, which is kind of like a horror anthology series that we've been having a lot of fun with, and that I would love to have y'all old sometimes. Yeah. We'd love to do that.

And we'd love to do another do-go-on campaign review sometime. We got it. Both on your Sans Spence Plus and on our Do-Go-Go-On Patreon. We did a do-go-on campaign where we'd never play Dungeons and Dragons before, and you were our dungeon master.

DM, am I saying that one? Yes. That was, um, You're killing it. Oh, thank you so much. It was very, very, it was absolutely loveful. It was lovely. It was lovely.

It was lovely. It was lovely. It was lovely. We're very keen to do another, another season. I'll never forget being, um, when I suggested something and Adam said, okay, we found our Jackson. What did you do? I tried to fuck somewhere. Yeah.

She was, she was. That's a very classic, you medieval. I said, okay. So, uh, uh, Adam, Adam, Adam. I'm going to, let me flirt with the guy. what? Absolute horn dog, she was. I weren't the expression

looking for strange from this guy. Yeah. It's funny to be horny. It is funny. It's funny. That's funny. So, fantastic. Check out sansplantsradio.com for all these fantastic pods.

And Jess, we've also got a website. Do go on pod.com. What can you find that? Holy frickin' shit, we do. You can find info about the podcasts that we do, live shows. You can suggest a topic. there's a link there as well

and you can find us on social media at do go on pod as well fantastic well check it out do go onpod.com sansplantsradia.com have two tabs open at the same time go wild

two episodes at once exactly left and right ears bi-oral does that something yeah by oral thank God

I think the kids are calling them suckos so good oh so good well that's it that's it for the show thank you so much for joining us and until next time

I'll say thank you so much for listening and Goodbye. Ladies. That's what Matt says. See you. Bye. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are

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