Two In The Think Tank - 415 - Operation Paperclip

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

This week we talk about the controversial Operation Paperclip, a post World War II secret United States intelligence program that sponsored German scientists to immigrate to the USA. On paper, any Nazis or war criminals were to be excluded... but just how true would that be? This is the first episode of Block 2023!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 07:52 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSupport the show on Apple podcasts and get bonus episodes in the app: http://apple.co/dogoon Live show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/ Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4443934.stmhttps://www.npr.org/2014/02/15/275877755/the-secret-operation-to-bring-nazi-scientists-to-americahttps://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/project-paperclip-and-american-rocketry-after-world-war-iihttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/08/hitler-germany-campaign-collapsed#:~:text=Ordinary%20Germans%20knew%20by%20the,war%20for%20varieties%20of%20defeatismhttps://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/chasing-moon-wernher-von-braun-and-nazis/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody, Jess and Dave, just jumping in really quickly at the top here to make sure that you are across all the details for our upcoming Christmas show. That's right, we are doing a live show in Melbourne Saturday December the 2nd, 2023, our final podcast of the year, our Christmas special. It's downstairs at Morris House, which usually be called the European beer cafe. On Saturday December the 2nd, 2023 at 4.30pm, come along, come one, come all, and get tickets at doogawonpod.com. Hello and welcome to another episode of Doo Go On. My name is Dave Warnke and as always I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hello Buttheads!

You never know what's gonna come up with the word hello. You never know what's gonna come up after the word butt. Yeah. It was heads this time. I could've said butt lovers. Yeah. She has before and she will again. Hello butt lovers. Hello butt lovers. I answered a butt lover. I'm an ass man. That's really loud. I'm open about. I'll tell you that in no words.

Well, you got the number plate. You ready to go? Ass man. I gotta say this, start a block. How good is it to be alive? Feels great. Yeah. For once I agree.

Yeah. For once. Personally, if I can just be vulnerable for a second, I wish I was never born. Okay. Even during block. Especially during block. Frank, Tobar, welcome everyone. Christmas, take a hike. Yeah. Fuck off. Easter, no thank you. Yuck. Other holidays and so Halloween piss off. It's our fourth of July. Yeah. Thanks. In comparison, they're all great Valentine's Day. No, you can stay. That's a beautiful day. Exactly. That's for us. I love love And Matt loves ass And that's my Valentine's Day any day

Any day What do you secretly do yourself my Valentine's Day. Any day. Any day I see an ass. What do you secretly think of yourself? Happy Valentine's Day. Like that, sir. But it's not Valentine's Day. It's not Valentine's ass day. It's blockbuster tober, the most special time of the year in the Duga 1 calendar. Matt, for people who have no idea what we're talking about, what is blockbuster toberine essence?

Well, it's basically, well, it was a month and now it's two months because we're vannex, no vannex, no bloe, bloe, buster, vannex. And it's the two months where we do the reports that are the most requested and then most voted for. These are the big topics, the blockbusters, the ones everyone wants. Yeah, not a crud we've been talking about for the other 45 weeks of the year. This is all open up to a public voter. I think there were, there was at 100 or maybe multiple hundred topics that were up for the vote,

and we had thousands of voters. I thought it was millions. Well, millions is also a kind of thousands though. Yeah. Sorry. We got the, so you were the maths girl. Well, and anyway, the public is voted. And now we're going to count down the nine most voted for blockbusterist and blockbuster

horrific topics. Starting with number nine. Just how do you feel about that? We're 10. Don't worry about it. We've got a top nine. I'm upset. I'm very upset about it Sometimes there's eight depending on how many weeks we've got okay nine He's fine. Nine is fine. Yeah, okay. Yeah, let's go with that. Nine's fine Whatever I'm cool and chill now, you know, I don't care about numbers and yeah, you just wish you would never I wish I was ever born. That's just a general vibe. have at all times. You like three right this three of us Yeah, three threes is nine. It's a beautiful number Three eight great, okay. I like that. Hmm

We might be stuffing that up with a guess next week, but anyway But before we get to that guest let's do this week's episode But basically what we do here is we're taking turns to report on a topic often suggested by one of listeners We go away do a bit of research and bring it back to the group and that is what I've done this week's episode. But basically what we do here is we take them turns to report on a topic, often suggested by one of listeners, we go away, do a bit of research and bring it back to the group and that is what I've done this week. It's a bit different with block because we all see the top nine sort of get divvied up a bit. Can I be honest with you Dave? I can't remember what it is. You've got no idea what I'm going to talk about. I need to be the case. Yeah, it is like written down, I need to spreadsheet somewhere. Doesn't matter. I've got no idea. I can give you a multiple choice and you still wouldn't get it.

I reckon you'll ask a question which should you know trigger something in my brain. Still won't know. Still won't know. I still have a semi-related question. The question to get is under topic this week is. I saw a semi from I'll stop before. Broom! All right, question is, what was the name of the paper clip that used to offer advice in Microsoft word That's inspired stuff that was a first draft for me and also I'm guessing Whatever the Microsoft guys name was clippy bill banks bill Brought bill not bill bristle. Do not bring bill br Banks. Bill Banks. Bill, Br- Bill. Not Bill. Br- Bill. Br- Bill. I do not bring Bill Br- Bill Jobs. Bill. Bill. Okay, I'm going through like a doorway

through a fence. Buffalo Bill. Oh, Bill Gate. Bill Gate. Bill Gate. That was a controversy involving counterfeit money. Bill Gate. So, Clippy is right and... Oh, now I vaguely remember what this is. Which is kind of led to the name of this episode. Yeah. Before we get to that, let's talk a bit about Clippy. Okay. What if I told you that little guy whom Time Magazine

named one of the 50 worst inventions ever? What? Funnily calling him an invention. I guess he is. He was a little aggressive, but one of the 50 worst ever ever. What? It's funny to call him an invention. I guess he is. He was a little aggressive, but the 50 worst ever unbelievable. But he's not the most controversial paperclip, not by a long shot. Although actually I would like to do a report on Clippy one day. I did a bit of a deep dive into Clippy and there's something there.

But today we are talking about Operation Paperclip. Yes. I mentioned this topic way back on episode 7 apparently on the Apollo 11 moon landing. Today we are talking about Operation Paperclip. Yes. I mentioned this topic way back on episode seven, apparently, on the Apollo 11 moon landing. And apparently on that app, I said one day we should do this topic, almost eight years later. Here we are, and in eight more years, I will do Clippy.

Okay. I'm committing now. Great. Well, somebody remind us, because yeah, this literally was written down in a spreadsheet I was looking at last night and I forgot. So yeah, we need reminders. We won't remember in eight years. We might be dead. Hold down to it. Now, this topic was suggested by a bunch of great people and anyone can suggest a topic

at any time. There's a link in the description of this episode and thank you to Sarah Grume from Wirthing in West Sussex, Beckham Mountain from Atlanta. Beckham Mountain. Incredible. Jesus. The Monopha do. Beckham Mountain, I haven't even met the mountain. There it is.

That's. Yeah, pick your favorite there. Alexandra Rodgers Brassington. Oh my god. From Hull in the UK. Yes. Alton in Alabama. And Meredith Van B from Auckland New Zealand.

And Kay Galton out. And all those names are fantastic. And Alton's also great. Alton's a cool name. A beautiful start. But exactly, but the mystery of what comes next. Really cool and nice. What's the last name?

Towers? Alton Towers. Ghostly by that English theme park. Alton Ghostly. Yeah, I went for it. Dave was just making it a bad joke about a theme park. I was having a real attempted guessing his name. Ghostly.

I think that's it. Yeah. Alton Ghostly from Alabama. I think it's Smith. Okay. You would hold that back because mystery is better than Smith. No offense to the Smith. No offense.

Alton Smith still is good. I think nearly any surname with Alton is going to work. Agreed. What about Alton, Alton? Yeah. Ooh. Or if it's Alton, John. What about Alton, Apple, Re?

Ooh. What about Alton, Nating? I don't think that would be good. That wouldn't be good. No. That's the one. That's the one. Everything else was. Nating. Is there any name that works with Nating?

Opinion. Beautiful night for Borg, girl. Absolutely beautiful. Hey Dave, please do go on. Have you ever begun? No, but here I am. I bet I'll begin. Let's give you a bit of background here. World War Two ever heard of it. Oh, vaguely? Yeah. Well, and no of it. It was a very brief recap. It all kicked off in 1939 and eventually was Germany, Italy, and Japan against the Allies. The world.

Yeah. Okay, I have a size that cool nickname. And the Guardian writes that two years into the war in September 1941, German arms seem to be carrying all before them. Western Europe had been decisively conquered, and there were a few signs of any serious resistance to German rule. It looked like it was going their way. Then the Nazis went against political and economic packs they had signed to the Soviet Union and invaded them in the brazen, operation, barbarossa. And they got pretty damn far with that as well, but, again from the Guardian, quote,

the fundamental problem facing Hitler Was that Germany simply did not have the resources to fight on so many different fronts at the same time. I mean you take on the world That's a big place. Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of fronts So just make a big circle Just stand in a really big circle everybody everybody facing out. And then just slowly. There's only one front. Yeah. Yeah, just have one circular front.

Yeah. Gee, I'm sort of think Adolf Hitler was a bit of a bowzer. Well, it's actually really easy. Yeah. Yeah, just circle it. Just make a big circle. Geez. God, it dumb.

Well from there, they didn't listen to you just. The war really began to turn against the Nazis. The Guardian notes that ordinary Germans knew by the end of 1943 that the war was lost. Terror began to replace a commitment as a means of keeping people fighting on. By early 1943 the German government began recalling from combat, number of scientists, engineers and technicians to work in research and development, Debalster German Defence for a protracted war with the USSR, and the Germans began developing technology at a remarkable rate. The whole war has been referred to by some, probably notes, as the first scientific war,

with huge advancements in technology proving decisive to the result. We're talking radar, jet engines, and nuclear weapons were all created or greatly accelerated by the result. We're talking radar, jet engines, and nuclear weapons were all created or greatly accelerated by the battles. Scientists and engineers played a huge role in the outcome of the war, and in many areas, Nazi Germany possessed technology that was superior to their enemies. The world. Okay. Wow. I mean, it almost feels like, if they had a few tweaks, they could have been good for the world. You know, look at all these things they've done.

The tweaks I'd make would be, you know, getting rid of the Nazi part. Oh, okay, right. And just do the science. Keep the science, keep the Volkswagen Beetle. Yeah. Keep fanta. Keep the fashion, get rid of the war,

and the killing of people. Yep. Interesting take. Okay. Yeah, personally, I love it when he goes political. When he says this controversial thing, so then he, uh, he emails me at midnight saying, please. Can you edit that out? I can't believe it was. It makes people uncomfortable, but maybe people need to be made to feel uncomfortable.

Yeah. Nath is a bad. Maybe only in that discomfort, can we truly grow. Hmm, honestly, I think they did, they, I don't think they did much good. But sounds like they've made it rater. So. Well Hitler even had his propaganda ministry come up with a term for revolutionary superweapons known as Wunderwoffer or Wunderweapon. Oh, that's so good. Wunderwoffer. Wunderwoffa Wonder Woffa

Wonder Woffa That's it That's it I love that Pretty bad ass, but Wonder Woffa said so silly Most of these weapons Fins, mad, some wonder weapons

Check out the wonder weapons Oh no, I'm terrified The terrified of your wonder weapons Now they're um They're further They've got the better language I'm terrified of your thunderbathens. Now they've got the better language. I'm gonna say that. It's a beautiful language. I absolutely love it.

Your mother tongue, Dave. What's your favorite phrase? Wunderboffer. Wunderboffer. It's up there. That'd be top four. Volkswagen. Yes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I love how they don't do W's. Van der Derner. Van der Derner four. Volkswagen. Yes. Yep. I love how they don't do W's. Verna, Derna. Verna, Derna. Angela Merkel. Yes. Verna Herzog. Oh my god. Some of the best names ever. The least goes on, but we just don't have time. We don't have time for all the German. I burlina. Yes. That's a great one. Seven. Beautiful German phrase. Famous from a German. So they had the wonder of offer, but most of these weapons, however, remained prototypes, which either never reached the combat theater,

or if they did, were too late in two insignificant numbers to actually have a military effect. Little too little too late from Hitler, okay? But the ideas were there and the technology was still in development. And on the other side of the fence, LIs also knew that the war was wrapping up And everyone began making plans for the future. Oh holidays It's nice to have something to look forward to. What are you gonna do after the war? Yeah, should we take a trip maybe hit the beach? Yeah, I'm thinking if we all we get a group together We could hire out like a pretty sick villa in Bali. Oh my gosh, you know private pool that kind of thing

Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. Just to like relax a little bit. Remember the group booking you get a free breakfast tonight in the summer? Yeah, yeah, I think I saw this place where you can like get like a chef that comes out and cooks for you for a day or something, that'd be really nice. So if we get the hands-axe together,

maybe the Americans, Canadians, they're free. Yeah, yeah. They're invited. We're just, we need a pretty big villa, but yeah, we're gonna be nice. Bring out the Vunderchef. Yeah! Are we ready to figure the Winston Churchill and his lads for sending us into Galipoli? We bring them along.

Hmm, I mean, it's extended invite. Yeah. If they can't let that happen. Be the bigger man. Yeah, that's right. So as the Allies gained territory and marched across Germany, they attempted to plunder as much equipment and expertise as possible from the rubble for themselves while preventing others from doing the same.

The Soviets, the United States, and to a lesser extent, the British and the French all seized intellectual reparations from Germany. Right. Sort of collecting stuff as they went along. Technically, the USA and Britain were on the same side as the Soviets here, but the truth is that even before the war ended, they were very wary of this new tech getting into Joseph Stalin's Soviet arsenal.

The USA wanted to keep the advantage to themselves in case they went to war with Stalin later on. The range of Germany's technical achievement astounded Allied scientific intelligence experts accompanying the invading forces in 1945. For one, the Allies had no idea that Hitler had created a whole arsenal of nerve agents. The New York Times writes that while searching the IG-Farban laboratories in the German Polish border, British soldiers uncovered 175 forested bunkers storing aerial bombs with a powerful organ of phosphorus nerve agent. They called in American army chemists who tested the

chemical and found that just a drop on the skin would kill a rabbit in one minute. And then 175 bunkers full of the fuck. One drop. And they eventually turn that into a L'Oreal testing facility with similar results. Yeah. Just one drop. But it made the rabbit really beautiful. Beautiful. One drop was also. Look at this beautiful corpse.

Oh my god. What a beautiful dead rabbit. It's so glossy. What a beautiful, beautiful look. A lovely coat. Maybe it's made of lean. No, L'oreal. L'oreal.

I said l'oreal, but I was only the one that I could think of. I don't, I imagine they all kill rabbits. So they all still kill rabbits? I don't know if they still do. But back then. But probably. Yeah, they spent my love killing rabbits for beauty.

Yeah. The Allies were surprised to find that the Germans had their fingers and many pies in the midst of developing what had already developed, supersonic rockets, nerve gas, jet aircraft, guided missiles, stealth technology, chemical weapons, hardened armor, colour photography, and other ground-breaking technologies. Wow, I mean colour photography really pales in comparison to a lot of those other ones, but I'm still impressed. I've made a nerve agent. I mean, colour photography really pales in comparison to a lot of those other ones, but I'm still impressed. I don't even know.

I've made another agent. Well, good for you. I've actually got a new film here that really shows red in a nice way. OK. Which one do you think has been used more since then? No, vagants. This photograph would kill two rabbits in under me. Whoa, if they look at it.

That's one of those cursed photos. In May 1945, Stalin's legions secured the atomic research labs at the prestigious Kaiserville Helm Institute in the suburbs of Berlin, which the BBC rights would eventually develop and become the vast Soviet nuclear arsenal. So they're all coming along going, I'll have that. I'll have that. You're coming coming with me and they're all trying to keep their Allies, you know the people that are actually on the same side of from doing the same that's for me That's for me. It's kind of like they've gone to like an outlet mall. They're just shopping Yeah, I love that I love that. But it's one of those ones where people are lining up on boxing day morning

Yeah, waiting for it and as soon as the boom gates, if you will, lift people are killing each other to grab a discount. It's a very much like a black Friday. Yeah, so killing each other. The Americans formed the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency, the JIOA. So gather and review dossiers on hundreds of Nazi scientists and engineers, then recruit the ones deemed useful, move them to the United States, and at least initially put them to work in the still ongoing war against Japan and at the same time make sure that the Soviets didn't get their hands on the technology. It really was a race.

US forces removed V2 missiles from the vast Nordhausen complex built under the Hartz mountains and Central Germany. Just days before the Soviets took over the factory in what would become their area of occupation. So they just shot gunning stuff left for our own center. Following the soldiers claiming territory, formally occupied by the Nazis, groups such as the Combined Intelligence Objectives Subcommittee, the CIOS. There's many initialisms and acronyms I'm going to tell you. And I'm going to retain all of them. But they're all set up by Americans, the ones I'm talking about. And they began confiscating war-related documents and materials

and interrogating scientists. As German research facilities were seized by the Allied forces, and a prize discovery was the Ossonberg List. This was a catalogue of prominent scientists and engineers that had been moved from the war's front lines to begin developing new weapons for the German Reich. This list had been found by a lab technician at Bond University in Germany and was a crumpled document floating in one of the school's toilets. Whoa. He's really checking everything, isn't he? There it is.

What's this? I'll have a look. Oh. Brush off some of this. I've just run this under a hand drive for this. I wanted to try to destroy the list But the half flush just hadn't been quite enough. They should have gone. Oh, I go full You're just about water conservation though. Yeah, if you're a storing document you go full flush. Yeah, it's showing invention the half full flush is that true? I tried to mention the half full flush, is that true?

All in one, you said it with some conviction and then immediately backtracked. Yeah, I believe that as I said it, I didn't know it was I finished saying it. I believe it, but you reckon if you're in this situation, you're marching across Germany collecting scientists and you're like, hey, what are you doing? Someone says, I invented the half full flush. Are you getting a ticket to go to America to keep working? Yeah, you got the toilet expert. Thank you for your service. Yeah, we got the half flush. We got to Krapa on the line. Bring him to the front. So they found this list. It was in a toilet and it was a list of all the scientists that Germany had had moved to develop these these weapons. So it basically gave the Allies a

shopping list to keep these the shopping allegory going. List of scientists to capture, described in the in a top secret memo as quote, chosen rare minds whose continuing intellectual productivity we wish to use. So they've got the list of the who's who? Zalbot on there Is it this round that time? I believe Elbert was already in America. So they're already got it. They must have got him in a presale Got it now they use the code on Stein one Now the top name on the list was Werner von Braun Wow Werner Werner. They're soner. Werner. Werner. Werner's so good.

I'll talk about him in detail in a minute. VVB. He's number one. V. WVB. Oh, damn. WVB sounds good too. But phonetically, VVB. VVB. I think Werner for a dog, if you have, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby. I think, do you think Verna for a dog, if you have another one?

That's pretty good. Verna is pretty fun, it's pretty good. Then I'd have Goose and Verna. Goose and Verna. That works. That's very good. I need to bring your attention to the fact that I just met at Dashound this week whose name was Keith. Keith's a great name.

I thought that was incredible. Yeah, that is so good. The channel called Keith. Was Keith Keith's a great man Yeah, that is so good The town called Keith. Oh, I love it. I think it's near the border of the Turin server Well, all time favorite names. I do love it. I do love a dog with a human name. It's very funny But also I met a golden retriever recently. His name was pudding. So that's pretty good to a human name Yeah, yeah pudding so that's pretty good to have a human name yeah food now put that dash hound and that's the one that looks like it's some people at elsewhere call it like something entirely different like a dachshund dachshund but they're and they're sausage dogs sausage dog yeah or as an I know them Keith

Keith are you gonna Keith? I'm on first name basis. Can I meet your Keith? Oh. Two little Keiths over there. This is an absolute beauty. Keith, that's so good. So let me give you another initialism here. The Joint Intelligence Committee or the JIC in the USA

was also set up with monitoring and calculating the emerging Soviet threat. Several reports were published in August 1945 1945 detailing the current and future military capability of the USSR, and the report concluded that Stalin's USSR was a hostile entity that would continue to seek global domination. They even calculated that by 1952, the Soviets would have recovered from war losses and regained their true and formidable potential. The USA had a ticking clock to contend with and they were prepared to do whatever it took to stay in front of their rivals. Wow.

So they're very much panicking that we've all right, just wrapped up this world war. There could be another one coming and we've got to stay in front. Oh man, what a stressful time. Yeah, just like everybody just chill out for a bit. We're not going to the holiday. Have a break. Come on. Are you just like everybody just chill out for a bit. What happened to the holiday? Have a break. Yeah, come on. Are you kidding me?

We've booked out this place. We've got a pool. This work life balance is terrible. Gotta go to the light. Sorry, this war life balance. You know what we didn't do? We didn't invite the Soviets. Oh, that's, and that's crowd attention.

And they're gonna be pissed. Oh, go, can we get a, can we get a message out? I like, I try not. I don't think we message China. I like, you're talking about a light call up. Yeah, we've just had a cancellation No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we've just organized this yeah, we're doing it's a oh we just had this sort Let's all get away. Yeah, we're meeting in Bali in two hours. I've missed I'm just messaging everyone now sounds like Canada's in What about you, China? Yeah, yeah, I think it certainly way. Well, unfortunately it wasn't meant to be.

So they're very paranoid. They're freaking out. And when you're doing that, maybe you make some pretty rash decisions. Well, yeah, also you haven't bloody had my tie on the beach. You need to chill the fuck out. Get on a benign. Do some meditation. Like, you know, your shoulders are up here, you're so stressed all the time. Of course you're not going to be making good decisions.

Yeah, who are we talking about here? America. Everyone. Everyone. Okay. Chess, you can swap that musket for a muskato. Yes. Yes. Well what's up there, big for muskets. We really didn't need those German scientists to bring technology for Photography Holy shit China was on in the hours, isn't it? Yes, and they suffered badly at the hands of Japan. Yeah, have we invited Japan? Would no, I mean I didn't are we do you think we'll be cool to invite Japan? No, I think it's too soon.

I think it's too soon. Indonesia, where we're visiting, where did they sit? Because it might be a little uncouth to be celebrating the end of the war, we're celebrating it, where, you know, against someone we defeated. All right, fine. I think there's only one. I think it's okay for me to climb that. It's only one solution to you. And that is a barge in international waters.

Yes, no one can get offended. See that. I made sure the barge on that villa, but okay. Well, we'll have it. It'll be off the coast of the villa. Okay. I can see the villa. You can see it.

So they're doing all these, they're writing up all these reports that they're evaluating secretly the USSR and how formidable they'll be as an opponent. They're also writing many reports on Germans, where they were at with the technology when they were sort of conquered. Major general Hugh Nure, Deputy Commander of the US Air Force in Europe wrote, Occupation of German scientific and industrial establishments has revealed the fact that we have been alarmingly backward in many fields of research. If we do not take the opportunity to seize the apparatus and the brains that developed it and put the combination back to work promptly, we will remain several years behind while we attempt to cover a field already exploited.

So he's like, we got to use these guys. The report also concluded that eight out of ten leading German rocket scientists, experts in the field of guided missiles, had gone missing and had probably been captured by the Soviets. And this and the fact that two entire German physics institutes had been packed up, shipped to Russia and rebuilt, was worrying to the the USA, because they were also grabbing. My first guest wouldn't have been the Russians, I would have assumed they'd just shot themselves

into space. Yeah. They know how to do it. It's like, once again, part of the reason I never want to excel at anything. You know, like these guys are just like, really, really good scientists. And now...

They're sticking their head up, talk poppy stuff. That's right. They're getting locked off. Not me. I said Becky, average it a couple of things. You know what it's yelling? I don't know. Shit. I don't know anything. Couldn't tell you. Rockets. What is that? What is that? What is it? What is rockets?

I'm the lettuce. I can't do basic multiplication. let alone the very complex science. It does feel like you are protesting too much though and they're going, this is a genius pretending she doesn't know anything. And that's true. Put it in the van. Well, no, you've said too much. Is that not true?

Yeah. Am I not a genius? You're a genius of sorts. Yes. Yeah. And I pretend to know nothing. Yeah. And that's part of my genius.

But to be clear, are they looking for a genius of sorts? Yeah. Great. I think they are. Great. Sorry, you're in. Fantastic. A holiday planning genius.

Oh, yeah, I am good at that. So in response to these concerns, the J-I-O-A, one of the great initialisms, or they might be Geowa. Not sure. They put into action a rapidly expanding program to capture nasty so nazi scientists some of them as we discover our last season was that what some of the nazi's what nasty not see not see not see are they didn't do it in your focus group with people speaking this today when they came up the name not see when they came up with the name Nazi. But if they'd found out that it sounded very much like the word nasty, you probably haven't been very brand.

What else did you choose? Like the Nana's or something? The Nana's. I don't know. Some Nana's are pretty nasty. What about Nazi Nana's? Nasty, not, T Nana's. Nasty, not, T Nana. Nasty, not, T Nana.

The Nasty, not,asty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Nasty Indies and was occupied by Japanese forces. So we're clear to go. Yeah, they're happy to party. Yeah, I think they're probably I think Netherlands would have faded there. They'll probably happy to be I don't know. I don't know what I'm gonna put words in Indonesia's mouth But they might they might do I do I might be happy to have some visitors Now that they've gotten rid of the last ones maybe they want some more Stoked to say Well, we're paying customers. Yes, that's the difference.

And so they should be. We got respect. So they should be grateful? Yes. Oh God. They being us, they're traveling party. That's right. I'm grateful.

Of their hospitality. Yeah. Thanks, Avanus. We're kind people. Thank you. So they're like, we got to capture these Nazi, Nazi scientists. The program was originally called Operation Overcast. Okay. Thank you. So they're like we got to capture these Nazi Nazi scientists. The program was originally called Operation Overcast. Okay. Pretty badass. Well, they're having it in Smelvin.

Wait, wait, wait, give it 10 minutes. Oh, how? Operation slightly sunny. Oh, yeah. But people, they don't know. And Melvin, you can get some different cons of weather. Yeah. That's kind of a thing. We have weather. Yeah. It can be pretty unpredictable.

Sometimes it's sunny, other times it's clouds. Yeah. Have you got a rinker? You might need it. Yeah, you got a body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body,

body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body, body I'm gonna head out the door mate. Laving in Melbourne's all about layers. Lairs and lineways. Lairs, lineways, culture, for an umbrella, and coffee. And coffee. Oh yeah, I guess like,

I guess it's just such a normal part of my everyday of my identity that I don't even think about Melbourne's rich history of coffee. Yeah. We want to travel, you realize the coffee is pretty good. It's pretty good. No, but it actually is quite good. That's a thing though. Like we joke, but the coffee here is very good. I wasn't joking. Point of the joke. Where is it? I can't. Point of the joke. Where is it?

You can't. I can't. So as Operation Overcast, it's aim was simple, quote, to exploit German scientists for American research and to deny these intellectual resources to the Soviet Union. The operation was later renamed Operation Paperclip or Project Paperclip. Hmm.

What do you think? The Overcast was better. Yeah, it kind of was, wasn't it? Paperclip's a bit of fun, I guess. Yeah, I guess it's, if you're trying to get people off the cent, is that what Operation Name is meant to do? Hmm. Because there's nothing that draws a line between what it is and what it's named.

While Britannica writes, Project Paperclip was so named for the paperclips that held together the many pages of information about the scientists possessing more problematic past during the Nazi era. That is so fucking boring. Yeah, they just looked around and gone, there's a few paper clips here. Was there a bit true of anything? Any operation at the time would have had paper clips keeping paper together. Did they not have staples? Yeah.

Operation staples sounds pretty like. What about Operation Keith? And the mask got that little dog. together. Did they not have stables? Yeah. Operation stables sounds pretty like Operation Keith. And the mask got that little dog. Yeah. Now we're talking. We're back on. All right. Let's know. Let's know. We're making a light change. Was Keith a stranger or like a friend's dog? Like will you see Keith again? It was just on the street. Yeah. Oh man. What is that? How do you know it's no to introduce itself? You don't get it, Matt. Yeah, you don't get it. When you have a dog, one of the first questions is,

how old is it? Yes, always age. What's their name? What's their name? Oh. Or their harness or tag or say it, or the owner will say the dog's name, and then you'll go, oh, it's a great name.

Like there's a corgi on my street called Bagel. Oh yeah, that's pretty good. And also, if you're not sure of the breed, what kind of, what kind of this? Mm-hmm. What, how old is it? What's the name? So I know everything about Keith.

I could steal Keith's identity if I wanted to. And I've not met what's Keith's name. What's Keith's name? What's Keith's name? What's Keith's name? So there must be times where you're like, I don't quite feel like going out with the dog today. And your dog doesn't get a walk because you're like, I don't quite feel like going out with the dog today and your dog doesn't get a walk

because you're like, I can't face other dog people. Is that up? No, you suck it up for the dog. Oh yeah, you go to. It is quite nice. You put it in a person's face. It can be, but otherwise like, you don't really, like stop and chat to people on a walk otherwise.

Which is probably a good thing But it is quite nice. I suppose when you meet a dog called Keith. I mean, that's made my way Yeah, I forget you are those people. Yeah People that I want to avoid I also asked the question, you know, they say okay. My dogs for how old is yours? Yeah, yeah No, it's great. It's a beautiful community. You have here recently. I've been saying oh he's just heard three You know he said on months. I could just say three. I think I said just turn four 78 months Yes, he is big freeze-age. Yes

Right the Soviets they had their own version of Operation Paperclip, which was called Operation Right, the Soviets, they had their own version of Operation Paperclip, which was called Operation Oso Avyakim. That's pretty badass, aren't they? I think Paperclip's better. I mean, I don't know the translation. It might mean Operation Badass, I don't know. Yeah, it could be something very cool. Good main operation found in the toilet.

Yeah. We don't know. Yeah. We can't know. Operation Toilet Boys. Toilet Boys. Everyone on this list is a toilet boy. And we want them. I see, I kind of like Operation Toilet boys. Everyone on this list is a toilet boy.

And we want them. I see I kind of like Operation Toilet boys better. They're both paperclips. Yeah. Toilet boys. Toilet boys. Or Operation Osanburg, because that's the list was called that. Ah.

It's pretty cool, Operation Osanburg. But they've gone paperclips and they've gone Osu over Kim. Their objective for the Soviets was to move Nazi scientists and engineers to the USSR along of their families, the laboratory equipment and other work materials, which is similar, but unlike with Operation Paperclip, the Nazi scientists captured by the Red Army were treated like criminals. They weren't given the option of staying in Germany, let alone employment contracts.

Indeed, Moscow considered their work on behalf of the Soviet Union to be war reparations. Basically like, your country invaded us, and this is how you will repay us. You'll make it up to us by working for us now. Sort of like when you can't pay a bill at a restaurant, and make it wash the dishes. You're scrovin' toilets going, how do I get here? What happened to me? I'm a scientist.

What? Why? It was my credit card to count. You're a scientist. You're a toilet boy now. You're a toilet boy. See, it makes more sense. It makes more sense. We can't go into the office of workers a paperclip for a bit, you're a toilet boy now. You're a toilet boy. See, it makes more sense. It makes more sense. We can't go into the office of workers of paperclip for a bit, can you? I'm A-Grabbed, the Soviets, heaps of Nazis and the experts in their fields of optics, aviation, chemical engineering and other technology sectors, moving up to 6,000 people in one day from Germany into the USSR.

That heaps. moving up to 6,000 people in one day from Germany into the USSR. That heaps. US President Truman authorised paperclip in August 1945. It allowed US military departments to sponsor immigration of chosen rare minds. I guess that's what it said on the visa. There were chosen rare minds. Years later in 1963 Truman recalled that he was not in the least reluctant to approve paperclip. That because of relations with the Soviet Union, he said, quote, this had to be done and was done.

Can I ask you a question, Dave? Would you refer to me as a rare mind? Have a moment to think if you need it. Matt, same question's coming away. I say yes, but would I choose you? Not so sure. For what? Chosen rare mind.

Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. So you're a rare mind, but I'm happy. She's a bit of a... But we haven't set like what it is you need from somebody. I'm still out. You're still not choosing me.

Okay, but I am a rare mind. You're a rare... I'll give you that. Matt, same question. I want to say yes and yes. You would choose me. Yeah, I'll take two. If you got them. Well, if Matt wants you, then I want to say yes and yes. You would choose me. Yeah, I'll take two. If you got them.

Well, I've met once, then I want you. I don't want the Soviets, okay, I'm not getting you. No, but he chose me. Right. Well, I will treat you like a criminal. You are right, Robert. Ah, God, the bird of being a rare mind. Stuff.

German and Austrian professionals facing the prospect of uncertain employment in their devastated postwar economies were also generally eager to accept such an offer from the US. Usually the recruits and their families were taken to the safety of the United States and they were then provided with labs and other facilities to continue their research. That's all those nerds, nerds. They were given a dog. And anything else they needed. You can have this. No, give it a dog. Anything else they needed? You can have this.

Test tubes. I don't. I'm not really a dog person. Well, you've got a dog. You're a dog person. Sorry, I've ordered six. On the other end, in the United States, there were some moral questions about the program, both within the government and in society, who quickly found out about the project.

Let's first talk about the general public, probably not surprisingly, not everyone was receptive to allowing Nazis being allowed to go completely unpunished and continue their work in the United States. But they're working for the United States. Yes, but some people were like, well months ago, we were at war with these people. And now I'm just at warmark with these people. Yeah. What's going on? Yeah. And now, I'm just at Walmart with these people. Yeah. What's going on? The New York Times, Newsweek and other media outlets exposed paperclip as early as December 1946.

Famous people including Albert Einstein. Don't forget the code, Einstein one. Rabbi Stephen Wise and even First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt, whose husband Franklin Roosevelt had been president during the majority of World War II, they all publicly opposed the program. MMM. privately, loved it. You loved it. Very into it. And according to a poll, most Americans at the time

considered it a quote, bad idea. MMM. People within the current government were also unsure. According to Britannica, the ethical and moral concerns of the project were immediately obvious to many within the US government. Some consider these experts to be a national security risk given their sudden change in loyalty. Like I said before, a few weeks ago, they're working for the opposition and now they're working for us. Can we trust them? Yeah, this is murky. I don't know, I don't know what to do. You either, if they don't take them, get off of them jobs. They think Russia will get them. Yes. Who they see now as a threat. But if they do get them, they're paying Nazis. Nazis are on the payroll now. Yeah, I don't

think there's a good option here. I'm going to say I'm on holidays. Hopefully it's sorted out when I get back. Yeah, yeah. We just got an out of office reply from you. I'm gonna be on the bar. Just you need a bar. Sorry, no reception. Yeah, on the bar, if you need me a bit, don't need me. Yeah, no, that's, that's tricky. It's good to have boundaries, Matt. That's good. I really just think, why do we need war? If I'm going to be involved in this, I'm going to say it no war and just everyone get on. If that's okay, is that too much to us? Yeah, it is. Oh, sorry. It's a lovely sentiment though. Jesus, I always push it too far. Yeah, yeah, we keep asking you to write it in but that's right probably the phrase you say most of me is knock it off Yeah

But I just can't just won't do it. I keep saying peace and love man. Yeah, peace and love So we think peace and love no, maybe you'll be more receptive. I'm saying peace and love Peace and love That no you're quite getting you're saying piss. I'm saying peace and love. Peace and love. No, you're quite getting, you're saying peace. I'm saying peace. Okay, look, this is like credit and crag. You're taking the peace right now. We're hearing the same word.

Same thing, you're saying the same thing. You're saying the same word. Yeah, peace. Yeah, peace. Peace and love. Peace and love. Okay, I'm confused. Am I saying peace?

Peace? Yes. And love. Yes. Great. I'm a quick cut for a second. I need to go have a peace. And we're back. After the peace, God is a long one. Nazi experts selected by the program, I've got to say, had to be screened by the JIOA, and according to official policy, anyone who had been more than a nominal member of the Nazi party was supposed to be excluded. President Truman had expressly ordered that anyone found to quote,

have been a member of the Nazi party, and more than a nominal participant in its activities or an active supporter of Nazism, militarism, would be excluded. Yes, so they're like, we don't want the Nazi Nazis. Yes, not the Nazi Nazis. No, but just like the complacent ones. Yes.

The ones who are like, I'm not really a Nazi, but you know. Yeah, I just happen to live in Germany at the time. Wrong place, wrong time. Wrong place, wrong time. Wrong place, wrong time. Oh, I... What I meant to do. What I meant to do?

Not being Nazi? Come on. It's tricky. Easy to say. Easy to say. Dave's family obviously they chose to be Nazis. It was incorrect. That was absolutely incorrect.

Is that incorrect? Yes, my family came out from Germany in 1890. Oh Oh, yeah, no, they yeah, they got out here early. That was right. That were they on the boat with Albert? Even earlier. You got pre-bought your family. Yeah He's a family of prepared earlier the varnakir varnakir would have been as well Varnaki would have been as well. That's right. Oh, Verna Varnaki. Verna Varnaki. Yeah, now your dog should be for Fauna.

I think my great-great-grandfather's name was Herman. Herman Varnaki. Herman Varnaki. That is fantastic. That is so good. He actually started a grocery store in St. Kilda. I think the story I've been told from Bimo grandfather, either his grandfather, his great-grandfather a long time ago, is that he was a young teenager

on the ship, came out, the boat stopped in Melbourne, was supposed to keep going, he jumped ship and never went back. Wow. Where was the man to keep going to? I'm not sure, like, if it was like, if it was gonna keep going, it would Tasmania and Antarctica.

I'm not, maybe they were picking stuff up. Yeah, right. Oh, I see. I'm not sure if it was those, I was supposed to be returning to him, but he was those, I'm supposed to be your return, but he is like, I'm out. And a young and a teenager to a belief. Wow.

So. Isn't it, it's wild those that maybe spur the moment decision as like you don't need this. Yeah, it means that you grew up here. Yeah, that's right. And then now grocery stores are in my blood. Like when I'm at the self checkout, I'm flying through that thing.

Yeah. I get it. I'm bippin, I'm bippin, I'm bippin, I'm stackin' the bag. Alty, they, you know, another German. They think they're too fast, some people say, but I'm, I'm, I'm feelin' that bag. Yeah, it's fine for you. Whatever, they can sit down in that chair

and scan all day, I'll be packin' the bag until the cat comes down. Very comfortable. Yeah. So, that's my family. You are beautiful to watch the supermarket, I will say. It's impressive. Yeah, I get daves to do my weekly shot.

I've worked as a checkout operator, check out Chick for a while, and yeah, I can't get close to Dave. It's embarrassing when you try to steal my culture. Isn't it crazy too that like, you don't, like Herman didn't think about that when he just jumped ship and stayed in Melbourne, that like this podcast wouldn't exist.

Think about all the things. Yeah, did he even consider that? I don't think he did. Or did someone go back in time and say, Melvin or Herman? Yeah, Melvin. I mean, he was Melvin. And then he think Melvin. Wow.

I'll go to Melvin. Melvin, let's close enough. And he made him with Melbourne. And then he said, Melbourne. Wow. I'll go to Melbourne. Melbourne, that's close enough. And they said, if you go to Melbourne, he said Melbourne. I said, yes, Melbourne. If you go to Melbourne now, a podcast will happen in 100 years. Yeah. 130 years.

Yeah. And he said, wow. I must make this happen. And then as he got off the boat and the man was sailing away, he turned and said, what's the podcast? Yeah, don't worry about it. It's not for you amazing stuff. And the beautiful detail we were on there. Beautiful detail. But what I was trying to say is that according to the official rules of Operation Paperclip, on paper, people who had supported Nazism or had committed war crimes or atrocities were

not allowed to take part. That's a pretty, isn't that a strong stance for Memesan? If you've committed an atrocity, then we're not interested. Not allowed. Jesus, that actually, I thought that would mean a bit soft, but I didn't realize they're taking a hard on stance. But did that happen in reality? Oh no! Well, that's a complicated question.

The answer is, in reality? Oh no! Well, that's a complicated question. The answer is, in some cases, no. I'm going to give you some examples of people who took part in Operation Paperclip and then we can revisit that question of morality. Okay, great. Number one, Adolf Hitler. He's like, I know a lot of stuff. Yeah, I ordered all this stuff. I know he's the stuff and I'm a great manager.

A really good at delegating. He said, I'm really inspirational. I've got leadership skills coming out the wads who? I love it, it was a resume. Leadership skills. Oh, my God. People management, managing large teams. Well, the most famous scientist associated with Operation

Paperclip was the man I said was on top of that Austin Burglist in that toilet found in the Dunning and he's the man I mentioned on the Apollo 11 episode all those years ago. Viby. Viby. Viby. Vurner. Von Braun. Full name. Vurner. Magnus. Maximilian. Flair. Von Braun. Magnus is great. VMMF. Viby. Yes. Or V Verna for short. Yep, great. He was born on March 23, 1912 in the province of Pozen, the kingdom of Prussia, then the German Empire,

and now Poland. The son of a Prussian Baron, von Braun, was the second of three sons of an aristocratic family. After Verna's confirmation, his mother gave him a telescope and he developed a passion for astronomy. As a youth, he became enamored with the possibilities of space exploration

by reading the work of Hermann Oberth. No relation to Hermann Warty. Who's 1923 book, The Rocket Into Interplanetary Space, prompted von Braun to master calculus and trigonometry so he could understand the physics of rocketry. Before this apparently he had struggled with the subjects and then literally later became the world's best rocket scientist. Wow, I just need the motivation.

I just need a motivation. I've never heard of called rocketry before, I love it. It's a great way, isn't it? Yeah, rocketry. Rocketry. He was also inspired by the world's first large scale experimental rocket program, the Opel RAK. This was a series of rocket vehicles produced by a German automobile manufacturer Fritz von

Opel of the Opel Car Company, which still exists. He was nicknamed Rocket Fritz. And the company conducted a series of public demonstrations that were essentially publicity stunts for the company. The great rocketry based website Wikipedia.org has an anecdote that says, Vicarpedia. Yes, of course, of course it is. It says 16 year old Werner was so enthusiastic about the public opal demonstrations that he constructed his own homemade rocket car, nearly killing himself in the process and causing a major disruption in a crowded street by detonating the toy wagon to which he had attached fireworks.

He was taken into custody by the local police until his father. That's funny. You didn't explain how I got the nickname Rocket. No, I'm not sure if it was a terminism. It wasn't. Right. It wasn't a nickname. Wow. His first name, Rocket Fritz. It was Rocket. I've won Braun after this incident where he had killed himself and exploded the street. Enrolled at the Berlin Institute of Technology where he would go on to earn a bachelor's degree in aeronautical engineering. As a student, he joined the German Society for Space Travel and worked with Herman Oberth, the author of the book that I inspired him.

So, you know, they say never meet the heroes, but he worked with this. And they worked on liquid-fueled rocket tests. Von Braun continued to experiment with rockets any spare time. So he's a rocket scientist by day and a rocket scientist by night. And at age 18, he and some friends would launch rockets from a municipal dump on the outskirts of Berlin. They called the area Raktanflugplats or Rocket Flight Place. And they were mentored by Herman Oberth, like I again. The New York Times recalls in von Braun's obituary, spoiler of the man born in 1912, is now dead. One day, in 1932, this sounds like a scene out of a movie.

A black sedan stopped by the dump and three German army men in Mufti, military stuff, stepped out. The Versailles Treaty, concluding World War I, had said nothing about barring rockets to Germany, so they had to sign things saying, we're not going to have a big military, we're not going to do this sort of stuff anymore, but it said nothing about rockets. To continue, when the three men climbed back into the Sudan, they had Dr. von Braun's joyful consent to carry on his experiments with the full sanction and financial support of the army. So one day he's basically a kid out, exploding rockets in a rubbish tip. And that night, a car pulls up and says, Hey, do you want to get in and we'll pay you

to do this? He's like, sweet. See tomorrow. So at the age of 20, he became German army's top civilian specialist in rocketry. What? That's 20. That's 20. What can I have been an expert in at 20? For me, it's diagnosis murder. Yeah. I'd seen every episode twice by that point. How many?

I don't want to know. I don't worry about it. Nine seasons. Yeah, no. I was more wondering by now how many times you'd seen each'd jump so that I don't want to know the answer. Okay. I think it'll be too sad. If you just a 20, you expect... Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Not an expert or anything. Oh my god. What do you want to find out?

I'm having a crisis. Manifold was a black sedan pulling up when you were 20, what were they going to ask you to do? I don't think any black sedan was pulling up to get me a 20. A horse and cat. Sorry, a horse and cat pulling up. Oh yeah, just look. No, I don't think any black horse and cats would have probably

come to get me. I don't think I'd like Dave very confident in himself as a 20-year-old diagnosis murder. I'm like, yes, very humble. Yeah, we're humble. Well, Dr. Von Braun said later that he had felt no moral scruples at the time about the possible abuse of his test rockets in war.

He said he was interested solely in exploring space. Based on his army-funded research on liquid propellant rocketry, Von Braun received a doctorate in physics in July 1934 from the main new university in Berlin. The New York Times writes, while a student in Berlin, he read an article about an imaginary trip to the moon that made a lasting impression, which he once recalled, it filled me with a romantic urge into planetary travel. That's how we got the nickname, Moroccad, it was horny.

Romantic urge. I wanted to fuck that, I wanted to fuck that moon. Come here, he's looking up at the sky of an alokoi, he's so cute. I liked a moon, he must be an arse man too.

It's a arse man. It's a full moon. He loves a full moon. He said, he was a task worth dedicating one's life to fucking the moon. Not just stay through a telescope with the moon and the planets, but to saw through the heavens and actually explore the mysterious universe. I knew how Columbus had felt when he fucked the moon. So the moon getting there was his eventual goal. He was during this period in Von Braun's life that the Nazis came to power in Germany

with Hitler becoming chancellor in 1933. PBS writes, Von Braun was a right wing nationalist by upbringing, but seems to have taken little interest in Nazi ideology or anti-Semitism. As money began flowing into rearmament and eventually into the rocket program, he became more enthusiastic about the regime,

because he's like, oh, they're paying for this stuff. Awesome. I get to do my little rocket tree. But it's more about like whoever's got the cash to let him play with rockets, and less about the ideology. Yeah, he's, you know, overlooking a few things because they're bankrolling.

Still ethically, not great. No, no, I think as long as they're paying you, that's okay to overlook atrocities. If they're paying you quite well. Yeah, nothing it's fine. Yeah. I think he, I know, if you're not doing the atrocities. Yeah, if you're just, yeah. You can take money from the people that are. Yeah, I think that's fine. I think you're a profit from it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can work for them. Just not, it's something different. Great. We're finding one here He um, I think he'd be rolling over in his grave Hearing you talk about him fucking the moon. I don't think that's what he would have said making love to the moon

Yeah, sorry. Yes. It was more about an emotional connection. That was vulgar of us. Yes. Yeah you mostly yeah I would never be so disrespectful. I would draw my comments. Thank you You wanted to make love to the moon. Yes, you mostly. Yeah. I would never be so disrespectful. I would draw all my comments. Thank you. You wanted to make love to the moon. That's right. All night long. So just talking about him moving the Nazis, PBS continues. In 1937, now the technical director at 8th, 25 of the new Army Rocket Center, he received

a letter asking him to join the Nazi party. Since it required little commitment, and it might damage his career to say no, he went along. So what, PBS writes? He then became a junior SS officer in 1940. And through the early years of the war, Von Braun worked on developing the V2 rocket, the world's first long-range guided ballistic missile.

Described by Hitler as a vengeance weapon. This is Wonder Out, Vundervoff. Vundervoffer. Vundervoffer. ballistic missile. Described by Hitler as a vengeance weapon, this is wonder out wonder of wonder of the wonder of the wonder of the the V2 rocket also became the first artificial object to travel into space by crossing the carbon line which is you know the technical edge of space with a vertical launch on the 20th of June 1944 the V2 rocket has been called the rocket that launched the space age

Wow he's in charge of it. He's 25. 25 years old. And he's like a... okay, okay. He's a wonder-vother, he's a wonder-kind. He's all the wonders. He is wonder-white, Fred. Wunder-white.

Wunder-white. Wunder-white. Wunder-white. He met with Adolf Hitler on several occasions, being formally decorated by Hitler twice, including being a watered the iron cross. Hitler promoted Dr von Braun to full professor, a rank of a specially high respect in Germany, and ordered the mass production of the V2 rockets.

And V2's were pretty impressive and terrifying, according to space.com. Able to reach speeds of more than three and a half thousand miles or five and a half thousand kilometers per hour, the 46 foot or 27,000 pound or 12,250 kilo of VT rocket could carry warheads 500 miles or 800 kilometers. The rockets traveled at supersonic speeds, impacted without audible warning and proved unstoppable as no effective defense existed at the time. So they really worked wonderful. First years in September 1944,

more than 5,000 of them were aimed at Britain. Of these, only 1,100 arrived on target, but they killed almost 3,000 people and injured thousands more. And I've also read numbers saying they killed up to 9,000 people in Britain. These rockets. Is he still saying that he's only really in it for space exploration?

I mean, for the space. Well, he's like, it did, it's the first thing that's ever gone to space. I did that bit. They also then came down and landed on people's houses. But I'm not in charge of the landing. I'm in charge of the take off. I don't imagine these are the kind of things he's telling himself. A man who would go on to be a US president and at the time general Dwight Eisenhower

said of the V2 rockets, he said, it seemed likely that if the Germans had succeeded in perfecting and using these new weapons six months earlier than he did, our invasion of Europe would have proved exceedingly difficult, perhaps impossible. Wow. So they were just a little bit too late to tip the war for Germany. Wow. But that's how powerful these rockets were. Shit.

Basically, once they're in the air, unstoppable. Mmm. But it seems the rockets weren't developed in time, and by 1945, the war was lost for Germany. Wow. That's how powerful these rockets were. Shit. Basically, once in a year, unstoppable. Mmm. But it seems the rockets weren't developed in time, and by 1945, the war was lost for Germany, and everyone knew it. Von Braun came up with a contingency plan. He was worried that Hitler would destroy all of the V2 rockets and their related scientific breakthroughs to prevent them from falling into enemy hands. So Von Braun got one of these aids to take 14 tons of paper moved by three trucks and hit them in an abandoned iron mine just to save care. I'm at how many paper clips that is. You could chuck that on a handful of USBs. Chuck it on a stick, mate. Floppy disk if you've got it. Put it on a few thousand floppy disks. See a thousand floppy disk if you've got it put it on a few thousand floppy disks See thousand floppy disk or one like hard drive with that kill you and then put them in the toilets. Yeah, yeah

Then flash and then the flash at the iron mine for safekeeping They're like I think fun broads lost Just put it in the Google drive check it in the Google drive I'm then and then put your laptop in the toilet And half flash it like is alright. I need you to put these rockets in the go to I'm gonna put your laptop in the top and then top And half flush it like is there I need you to put these rockets in the cloud Father rockets into the clouds. No, no into the cloud fucking hell so I can access it from anywhere

It's fucking idiot. I don't want to have to go to the iron mine to get my rockets I don't have to get my hands wet just to get the rocket. I don't know if the other hands were. Just to get the rockets. Oh my god. It's gross. It's really yuck. Why is everything in a toilet? On May 2, 1945, Von Braun and a group of German rocket scientists surrendered to the American forces. With Nazi Germany crumbling and on the verge of a full collapse, Von Braun was confident

that with his unmatched knowledge of rockets, he would not be harmed. He later told an American reporter, I did not expect to be kicked in the teeth. The V2 was something we had and you didn't have naturally. You wanted to know all about it. So he's really cocky. And apparently, I think that night they, they surrendered and they figured out who he was and they're like, please come right this way. Gave him a lovely, literally a cooked breakfast and really looked after him because they were

like, this is a smart guy. What's Kiss his ass? And he knew it. He's like bigger than Kiss my ass. I think I'm gonna have a little break. I'm gonna have a spank. I'm gonna have a spank. I'm gonna need a few seconds alone with the moon.

Ha ha ha. Von Braun and an initial group of about 125 were sent to America where they were installed at the beautifully named Fort Bliss in Texas. They then worked on rockets for the US Army and assisted in V2 launches at the White Sands proving ground in New Mexico. So they brought the V2s over to America and had to go. Fort Bliss sounds exactly what they needed.

A bit of a pool, some sunshine. Couple of eggs at Fort Bliss. Couple of a pool, some sunshine. Cut the legs at Fort Bliss. Couple of cocktails. Oh my gosh. Some board games, just some R and R. Wow. You know what I mean? All inclusive.

Rockets and Rockets. Yeah. That's right. I didn't think Rockets, and I couldn't think of a second R word. But then you just said, rockets and rockets and I was like, it was right there. That's why he's so good.

That's why he's so good. Double it up. Do you think the arse man was interested in the arse man? The arse man. Arse man. Arse man. Oh my god. It's that's what it was.

That's what it was. It was an arse man. Rockets and rockets. We've been miss miss interpreting thisse man. Arse man. Rockets and rockets. We've been misinterpreting this whole time. Oh my God, that isn't a bad thing. He was an arse man. But he's an arse man. Arse man.

Wow. I feel full. So his move to America, Von Braun became one of the most prominent advocates for space exploration in the United States during the 1950s. He became director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center and the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the super boost

at the big rocket that would propel Americans to the moon, would become an integral part of the Apollo missions of the 1960s. And we know, thankfully, tomorrow, people didn't know before that. They made it to the moon in 1969 and Von Braun fulfilled his childhood dream. So he was alive at that point? Yes. Well, was it his childhood dream? Did he want to go to the moon? No, he wanted to send Americans to the moon. One to send three Americans to the moon. Little boy and Prussia.

He wanted to send Americans to the moon. Well, I'm happy for him. In many ways, the whole Apollo NASA mission to the moon was built off the back of Operation Paperclip, and the men involved were highly successful and highly rewarded. The NASA Distinguished Service Medal is the highest award, which may be bestowed by the Space Administration. After more than two decades of service and leadership in NASA,

four men from Operation Paperclip were awarded this medal, the Ennasa Distinguished Service Medal, but all in 1969. But did these men qualify for Operation Paperclip under the guidelines initially laid out? Remember, President Truman had expressly ordered that anyone found to have been a member of the Nazi party and more than a nominal participant in these activities or an active support of Nazism, militarism should be excluded.

They couldn't have been like full on Nazi. That's what, and that's what. They could have been like, I'm a Nazi only because I fear for my life if I don't play along. You could be that kind of Nazi. Yeah. But you can't be like, yay! Kind of Nazi.

Yeah, Nazis. You couldn't be yay Nazis. That was the thing. But I brought a good rule. I'll briefly go through these four men who will awarded this top NASA medal. It's incredible prize. Kurt Debus or Keat Kurt Debus, I forgot to look it up. The first director of NASA's Launch Operations Center,

later renamed as the Kennedy Space Center. Debus is described by the BBC as a rocket launch specialist who was also an SS officer. So I won't really supposed to take officers like that. Here's a report stated before he came over, he should be in turn does a menace to the security of the allied forces. They took him anyway. He's very good at rockets.

Very. Yeah, that's funny. It's the compromise. Where how good are your rockets? Are you better at rockets than you were an awful person? That's right. There's a scale here. Oh, okay.

Well, your rockets really cancel out your narcissism. There's a quite a complicated mathematical equation which the Nazi scientists provided. Yeah. I said, if we pass this, then it's okay. Well, you're very smart, there's no conflict of interest that I can see here. Wow.

Okay, now it looks like you've passed. It's proven you're fine. Yeah, okay, great. Well, here's a hot breakfast It's a hot breakfast, and I don't know and and a few minutes alone with the moon Can I go next and a condo they love condos? Do they I don't even fully know what it is a condominium Yeah, I do know what it is although I don't know where that man

Yeah, I think it's like in a apartment. Okay. Yeah. It sounds better though. What's a condo? I think it's an apartment. The one that's, but then they have apartments. No.

I'll look it up for you. What is a condo? Condo. Thank you. Rusez, a condo here has an article, condo's Rusez apartment. What's the difference? In condos, you have a body corporate which is made up of owners. That's the same apartment. Wait, that means we have condos here? Condo. Tell me

condo, condo, condo. Condo menu is the North American term for the form of property ownership known as strata title in Australia. That means anything to anybody. Yeah, if you have a strata title, that means there's a body corporate, doesn't it? I don't own property, I don't know. But you do live in a condo, so maybe you could explain. What is what's your place? Wines in apartment. Okay, so condos in apartment. Don't worry about it. They love condos. I regret breaking it up. Me too. I don't know that much. Condos sound like an Australian.

Like if we had condominiums, we'd call them condos. Yeah. So it's just another thing we think is a thing we do. I thought you were gonna say, doesn't it sound like, like what Australians would call condoms? Oh, condos. Chakka's a condo. I'm gonna go visit the moon.

Why are the dinners? I don't know. We've derailed, Dave, please do go on. Hmm, condon. Please condon. Condon, please put a condon on. He's looking at what condot are. Let me tell you a bit more about these Nazis.

I guess, please. So Kurt Debra, he sounds like he was a Nazi Nazi. Sounds about it. What about Erberhard Rees, who became director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center and directed the Lunar Roving Vehicle Program. Reeves was in the first group of Operation Paperclip rocket scientist brought to the United States.

He served as Werner von Braun's assistant but was not a member of the Nazi party. So I think he called for us. He's probably okay. Yeah. He never even signed up. He never signed up. Didn't pay the admin fee. Yeah.

Get a little badge. Get a membership card. I mean, I don't understand it at all. How many, so you have to sign up to be an artsy? Well, to be part of the party. Yeah, because it's a political party. Yes, but the only political party at the time. Right.

Then there's Arthur Rudolph, the project director of the Satin 5 Rocket Program. According to the BBC, during the war, he was chief operations director at Nordhausen where 20,000 slave laborers died producing V2 missiles. 20,000. 20,000.

What? Producing them. And he was described in his report as quote, 100% Nazi dangerous type. And we, yeah, to take it, we'll take it. We are a past the sums. Yeah, yeah. Fast the calculation.

And he sounds like a Nazi Nazi. So, can you say that again part, he passed the sums. Yeah, yeah. He passed the calculation. He sounds like a Nazi Nazi. Can you say that again, 20,000 people died. Yeah, making the V2 missiles that wonder off of that big rocket that they were making. 20,000 people died. And how many people died getting blown up by them? Yes, that's actually a terrifying fact. Well, I guess it's tragic no matter what you look at,

but that's a fact about V2 missiles. More people died making them than they ever took out in military operations. I wonder how they died. How do you lose 20,000 people? I think that you use this I think they're slave laborers and they were like people from concentration camps and stuff on that. It worked to death. Wow. That's horrendous. So not a great guy in 1984 1984, but he, America said, come on it. Grab a hot breakfast. Yeah. And he's one of the more controversial ones because in 1984, the US government investigated Rudolph for war crimes. And he agreed to announce his

United States citizenship and leave the US in return for not being prosecuted. So they basically said, if you leave this, this will go away. So he was able to live and work there for decades. And then eventually when he was no longer useful to them, they went, hang on a second, I reckon you're probably pretty bad. I think people probably started investigating him and it came out and they were like,

oh yeah, no, he doesn't work for us anymore, and they just sort of kicked him out. Very dodgy stuff. He died in Germany in 1996 at the age of 89, having never been charged or properly investigated. His whole Nazi pass had been swept under the rug. So, and he already won this NASA distinguished service medal.

And of course, the fourth winner, an absolute hero of the Apollo Sports program was the familiar Werner von Braun VVB. He died of cancer at age 65 in 1977. Seven years before this question came to the forefront when Arthur Rudolph was disgraced and returned to Germany. He died before that. So von Braun wasn't around to answer questions or defend himself, but in the 80s and 90s,

Journalist and Scholars uncovered more about him and his associates Nazi records. And it is not good stuff. Ah, according to PBS, he and his employer from 1945 to 1960, the US Army had effectively neutralized most of the uncomfortable questions surrounding his former service to Adolf Hitler. In autobiographical articles and press interviews, he stuck to the line that he was an apolitical scientist who only wanted to go to space. That's all he cared about. He built missiles, used against Allied cities because it was his national duty in wartime. He admitted that he had been

a member of the National Socialist Party, the Nazis, but labelled it nominal and necessary to protect his career in a totalitarian society. He always contended, refusal to join the party would have meant that I would have to abandon the work of my life. Okay, you can understand some of that. But the sad truth is that in developing the work of his life, the rockets' slave labor was used, as I said, with many of these quote-unquote workers sourced from concentration camps, and the conditions for these enslaved workers were awful.

And like I said, more people died building the rockets than were killed by it as a weapon. Von Braun admitted visiting the work plant at Middle-Wirk on many occasions and called the conditions at the plant repulsive but claimed never to have personally witnessed any deaths or beatings, although it had become clear to him by 1944 that deaths had occurred. He denied ever having visited the Missle Bell door a concentration camp where 20,000 people died from illness, beatings, hangings and other intolerable work conditions. Horrible place. Horrible place. But for a long time details of concentration camp slave labor was not widely available because the US Army had classified a lot of the details, because it would look really bad that their number one NASA guy was involved with this stuff. The military did the same with Von Braun's SS officer rank and the Nazi records of the more than

100 associates who had come to the US with him, deliberately sweeping that information under the rug. Technically, if following President Truman's strict orders that members of the Nazi party and more than nominal participants in its activities should be excluded, that would have meant Vaughn Braun would have been ineligible to serve the US. A member of numerous Nazi organizations, he also held the rank of SS, and his initial intelligence file actually described him as a security risk. So, it's got like, you know, red flags all over the place, but they're ignoring them all because he's the smartest guy

Yeah, wow that's Fuck it fucked up and over the years more information has come to light about what Von Braun knew and what he did According to Annie Jacobson who wrote a 2014 book called Operation Paperclip the secret intelligence program that brought Nazi scientists to America She said Von Braun himself handpicked people from horrific places including book and vault concentration camp to work to the bone building his rockets. She also contends, when you see the kind of activity during the war, you have to imagine what he saw and what he knew, it's impossible to excuse him from his Nazi past. But despite all this, Von Braun was allowed into the USA and his influence on the Apollo Space Program, rocketry and space exploration is undeniable.

He has been described as the father of space travel, the father of rocket science or the father of the American lunar program. A lot of kids this guy. Yeah. The mother of them all, the moon. He received many awards, including President Gerald Ford awarded him the country's highest space honor, the National Medal of Science in Engineering, he is in the National Aviation Hall of Fame as well as the International Space Hall of Fame, and the National Space Society

still awards the Verna von Braun Memorial Award to recognize excellence in management of and leadership for space-related projects. So despite this recognition, Von Braun is still a highly controversial figure, widely seen as escaping justice for his Nazi war crimes due to the Americans' desire to beat the Soviets in the Cold War and get to the moon first. And he got them there. But at what cost? Well, a lot of lives. A lot of lives. A lot of lives.

Stodgy stuff. America's soul. Yeah, that's good. That of lives. Stodgy stuff. America's soul. Yeah. That's good. That's good stuff. That's good. That's a question mark. America's soul.

America's soul. That's good. Put that on a tissue. No, I liked it when you like, yeah. But I don't. You said it more dramatically. Yeah, but I don't know. I'm talking about it.

Oh, you never do. Yeah. But it sounded good. Okay. I do. I just like Americans listening to this going, fuck, I just got to know that. It kind of doesn't even know what a condo is. Is it not what a condo is? You think you can talk about our soul?

Our collective soul? Yeah, nothing about America's soul. I know about America's movie soul, the Pixar film, fell asleep during it. Apparently very good. Lovely sleep. Yeah, it was okay, now. I've got to say the names I've said so far are just a few of them more than 1,600 German

scientists, engineers and technicians who were taken from Germany to the USA. Roughly half of the early paper clips specialists had been members of the Nazi party. And of course there was an incredible spectrum there of hardcore Nazi-soup did horrific things to others who themselves fell depressed by the regime and were very happy to get out. Yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, you're the way you were, it just kind of was like hardcore Nazis, I think just because just to keep it on theme for the rest of this report, they're Nazi Nazis. Nazi Nazis. Thank you. Yes. And some of the people were totally indifferent to everything. Take for example, Herbert A. Wagner, and some of it, but some of the people were totally indifferent to everything take for example Herbert A. Wagner Austrian scientists who was the first of many Germans

brought to America's part of paperclip Wagner developed numerous innovations in the fields of aerodynamics aircraft structure and guided weapons He is most famous for developing the henchial HS293 Radio guided glide bomb sounds like it's gonna be full of glitter or something But I think it's nastier than that. It's funny to just thinking about like these brilliant minds in a different time They would have invented things that would have helped you know, but they just They were at the peak of their science during these wars So they're making things to kill yeah the people come up with these ideas and the army's like, great, how do we blow

it up? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Fantastic. Robot, robot. I've chewed a bunch of diseases. Right. How do we blow it up?

How do we reverse that and give the disease to our enemies? Yeah, how do we infect people with it? Then we have the antidote. Can we explode cancer? So this guy had arrived at Frederick, Maryland in 1945 with seven large cases of blueprints, another technical data and a pocket full of dreams. He supported US efforts to deploy glide bombs against Japan because they were still finding Japan at the time.

And a formally classified FBI counterintelligence report describes his approach to his work. I like this. It says, an excellent German scientist of good character who is not interested in politics. He has given no evidence of being either pro-Nazi or pro-communist and is disinterested politically. Once belonged to the German SS for a four-week instruction course but dropped out of the same on his own violation. It's an opportunist who is interested only in science and does not subscribe to any political ideology. Since the death of his wife,

Wagner has been drinking considerably, but is not a drunkard. Okay. So that's another one of the people that are like, they got nothing really. They're still in the game with an outskirts, he's done anything messed up. He just wants to make his science and have a few drinks.

I just want to make my science. I just want to make my science. He's few drinks. I just want to make my science. I just want to make my science. He's had a few drinks when he's talking like that. I just want to make my science. I don't care about it. I don't think that that's even good. I just want to make my science. So there weren't all dodgy, but Annie Jacobson, who wrote their book,

summed up her opinions in an interview with NPR in 2014. She says, you have to be a Nazi ideologue to move up that chain of command so high. It's almost like someone who is a hedge fund manager in the United States trying to take the line that they don't believe in capitalism, you know, that they're just trying to earn a living for the family. I mean, if you're going to rise to the top of your field, you maintain the party line and that is what I found was the case with paper clip. Especially a lot of these senior guys. Yeah. field, you maintain the party line and that is what I found was the case with paperclip,

especially a lot of these senior guys. Yeah. He's a makes it, yeah, pretty uncomfortable. A lot of the things that have been achieved through that. Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm going to go through some of them now, morally very questionable, but how successful was it as a program? Almost paperclip scientists and specialists were dispersed as individuals or small groups

to military laboratories, universities and private companies, so they went far and wide. Of course, we've already covered the important and extremely successful and famous Apollo program that was masterminded by scientists from paperclip and has really become the most famous thing associated with it. Now people think paperclip, they usually think fern of on-brawn and Apollo, but and that's kind of the default in most people's minds if they know about it, but they did a lot of other stuff as well. Not the only advancement in technology to come out of members of the program. Notable areas of focus were guided missiles, supersonic aerodynamics, guidance and control,

rocket and jet engines, and aerospace medicine. Hands von O'Harn was a German scientist, engineer, and the designer of the first turbojet engine to power an aircraft, and he was part of paperclip. Adolf Bussmann was responsible for the swept wing, which improved aircraft performance at high speeds. A swept wing is a wing that angles either backward or occasionally forward from its route rather than in a straight sideways direction. Did that help eventually get to the drip snoot? Yes, the drip snoot. And then of course, the winged keel.

Oh, yeah, for the America's Cup. Nine and 83, Australian, Australia too. The winner of the America's Cup. And the drip snoot, what was that plane? It was from the Concorde. The Concorde, which we sat on. We've been in a Concorde and watched a video with queen pumping loudly. Well, which we sat on. We've been in a Concorde and watched a video with queen pumping loudly.

Well, the moment that was... That was so fun. Love a Concorde. So it's, apparently it's been very influential. It has the effect of delaying the shock waves and accompanying aerodynamic drag rise caused by fluid compressibility near the speed of sound improving performance.

I've seen so many. Yeah. Swift, therefore, most always used on jet aircraft design to fly at these speeds. So if you look at a plane now, they are, I think, a lot of the bigger ones, the jets, they've got Swift wings because of this guy. And he was there because of paper clip. Also, the famous B2 stealth bomber was based on a 1944 German design, the Horton H0229, which was arguably

the first stealth aircraft. I was really thinking you're going to start talking about some things that were just better for society in general, but it is just all the killing machines. All things that make planes go quicker to kill. The Breville Blender, the popcorn machine. Oh. So yeah, they basically took that design from the Germans and developed a further and now the famous stealth bomber is based on that.

Also, how about this one? Cruise missiles are still based on the design of the V1 missile. So. Yeah, a lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them.

A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of them. I don't know. They got that specific. Yeah.

But is it a cruise ship? No, well, don't use that one. So on a technical level, Operation Paperclip was extremely successful, especially with military or war, that kind of stuff. Get into space, I suppose that's pretty big, very big deal. But was the program justified? Only one paperclip scientist, George Ricky, was formally tried for any crime and no paperclip scientist was found guilty of any crime in the United States or in Germany.

Ricky was returned to Germany in 47 to stand at the door of trial where he was acquitted. We know that at least some of them involved in Operation Paperclip were involved in war crimes, who, according to the BBC, had their alleged crimes covered up in their backgrounds, bleached by a military which saw winning the Cold War and not upholding justice as its first priority. And in many cases these men were celebrated for their work for their new lives. One is Hubertus Strugghold, who for 50 years from 1963 to 2013 had the Strugghold award named after him. Now Hubertus Strugghold, which is a great name. He's often referred to as the father of space medicine

for his central role in developing innovations like the space suit and space life support systems. The Strugg Hold Award was the most prestigious award from the Space Medicine Association, a member organization of the Aerospace Medical Association. So they gave out this award for 50 years. Association, a member organization of the Aerospace Medical Association. So they gave out this award for 50 years. But during his work on behalf of the US Air Force and NASA, Strugghold was the subject

of three separate US government investigations into his suspected involvement in war crimes committed under the Nazis. He was under suspicion of being involved with human experiments at the Dachau Concentration Camp. A 1958 investigation by the Justice Department fully exonerated him. While a second inquiry launched by the Immigration and Neutralization Service in 1974 was later abandoned due to lack of evidence, and in 1983, the Office of Special Investigations re-opened his case but withdrew the effort when he died in 1986.

So he never fully got to the bottom of what he was up to. But in the years since his death, it's become hard to deny his involvement. And on October 1, 2013, in the aftermath of a Wall Street Journal article published in December 2012, which highlighted his connection to human experiments during World War II, the Space Medicine Association's executive committee announced that the Space Medicine Association would be retiring the Strug Hold award. So this guy had done horrific shit to people. Against their will, these are not volunteers. I'm just saying that he's experimenting on.

Horrible, horrible crimes, and then, you know, he lived this new life in America, and then people were like, wow, what a guy. What a guy. Here's this award, but then There was suspicious of him from 1958 onward at least and it took to 2013 that they stopped naming the award after him another guy There's been written about by NPR was Dr. Theodore Benzinger who was one of the Nazi doctors Benzinger What just like that one tell theinger. What, yes? You like that one? Tell the class what's so funny here.

I was just waiting. It's maybe think of Buzzinger. That was funny. Buzzinger. Ben Zinger, he was one of the Nazi doctors who came to America. And when he died at the age of 90 something, had a wonderful obituary in the New York Times lauding him for inventing the Eithermomberter.

So there, you invented something the ether momenter but NPR right took at the moment or what did you it's a sick it in your ass he shoved it in to the yeah yeah it's a new one that's a new thing I come up with that everyone's like did you wash it oh fuck but NPR rights so here this New York Times is a bit tree saying he's the inventor of the Ethermometer, he's a, you know, incredible for science, but they entirely left out the story of that his work that he'd performed on concentration camp prisoners. So again, did her horrible Nazi stuff.

The last known original member of Operation Paperclip, George Vaughn, Tissin Hulson, passed in 2018 at the age of 104. I gotta tell ya, it sounds like being a Nazi is great for longevity. A lot of, honestly, a lot of these people, apart from von Braun, who died in the 60s of cancer, all these other people lived to their 90s, late 80s, 90s, this guy 104. Yeah, I don't know what, probably a coincidence,

but I don't know. Yeah. Did they have a secret? Well, these guys were there. In the Indiana Jones movies, weren't the Nazis after like, a turn-aloff or something? I wouldn't say in them.

Yeah, the Holy Grail. Holy Grail. Yeah, the Ark of the Covenant. Do you think they found one of these? They must have. Yeah. And that's how they lived to 90 plus. They didn't live forever.

Well, as far as we know. Whoa. Oh my gosh. I thought they're fake ages of that old. Imagine what they're real ages are. Well, as far as we know. Whoa. Oh my gosh. They're fake ages of that old. Imagine what they're real ages are. So yeah, the last guy died 104. He's credited with the first complete design

of the Luna Roving Vehicle. So there you go. But paperclip wasn't the only program of its type. Obviously, I already mentioned the Soviets had a similar program. Operation Surgeon was a British Post-Second World War program to exploit German aeronautics and deny German technical skills to the Soviets. A list of 1500 German scientists and technicians were created with the goal of forcibly removing them from Germany, quote, whether they like it or not.

That's nice. Isn't it interesting as well? Because all these countries have taken the greatest minds of Germany. That's why Germany is famously very bad at engineering. And they haven't really done anything sort of of notes since. I don't think so. You're real brain drain. Yeah, I think they're just kind of just wandering around aimlessly. Yeah, walking around.

As a nation. Walking into walls like. Yeah, like seamless characters. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's's not doing so what's the German word to don't don't oh my name act on that's all that yeah very too dimensional very just that's all this German they took them all they took everyone else yeah they took the brains out yeah sorry if you're still there, you know one of the brains.

The brains, the remain, they're all hot. Oh yeah. They're all hot and strong. Yeah, yeah. The beauty in the brawns left. Oh yeah. But the brains. The brains.

Those ugly brains. The ugly brain drain. And just to wrap it up, the Germans weren't the only ones who were poached. Many Japanese perpetrators of horrific, I still am scrubbing some of the stuff I read from my brain, who had experimented on human subjects were also given immunity in exchange for the results of their experiments. So they never went punished because they were like, we've tested these diseases on these unwilling participants. Deal with the devil. Yeah, America has lost its soul. Terrifying stuff.

Is this with America, is this with other countries? Oh, both. Both countries. No, it's America. America. Yeah. There's two countries. There's two countries in the world.

Americans and everyone else. But again, since Japan's Brian Drone Back there, I haven't. And what do they do?one back there, I haven't... What do they do? One of them, I haven't cried at any technology that I've seen. Oh my God, one of the most backwards countries ever. Yeah. Yeah.

Going to Japan is like, going back in time. You know, you're like, what do you sell this? Wow. It's Asia's sovereign valley. Sovereign Hill. Sovereign Hill. Sovereign Hill. Sovereign Hill. Sovereign Hill.

Because if I, there would have been, you know, the majority listening, they're going sovereign valley. What does that mean? It sounds beautiful. Or sovereign hill. No, no, and since. We don't have a sense.

We don't have a sense. That gold rush, thing park outside of Melbourne. From Belorat, perfect. But that's my report on Operation Paperclip. It's left a very questionable legacy as over the decades more and more of the truth has come out about some of these guys' backgrounds

and people are still scratching their heads going, do we do the right thing here? Did I do the right thing, mate? I don't know. I'm gonna go out in the limon and say no. But Jess, then think of all the bombs we wouldn't have, these high-tech bombs that can kill more people easier. That's true. Yeah.

It's not even one of those, what do you call them, philosophical things, the tram, trolley question. Yeah. And then because it's like one way these people get punished for their crimes. But if that happens, then all these great bombs are made. And more people don't die. So it's pretty tricky. It was a tough one.

You go the other way, they do get punished, but then we don't have the bombs. So it's kind of like, do you want the lose, lose, or the win-win, and it's a tricky one. Yeah, yeah. But it's like you were saying at the start, Matt, they were worried about the enemy's

getting the technology and then, and they're, well, they'll develop the bombs anyway and then use them on us. Very, very tricky. And they were paranoid. They had this real fear of, oh my God, we're going to go to another world world. We need to get in front no matter what. I'd sweep this under the rug, but then over the years you look back and go, well, that's really morally questionable.

Yeah. I just think this is a, it just feels like a romantic comedy situation. USSR, USA, just had to have a conversation. Yeah. Pick up the phone. The Cold War was that third act part where they, maybe second act,

but I don't understand movies, but it's the bit where they're like, I hate you. I can't believe. I can't believe I ever even trusted you. Yeah, that's that's where and then we see a montage of the miserable without each other. But they just had to say, oh no, that email wasn't that was an old email that you read or something. Yeah, it wasn't me.

It was a misunderstanding. Yeah, I've changed. It all works out of the end as we see with current US Russian relations. Yeah, they kissing. They're smooching at a sunset. I think we're almost up to the bloopers. If I say a blooper, I think of Jess Perkins. Yeah, good. Every time. You inspired the end of who you're going to match your a bit. I'll do some bloopers in the post credits there. I am an inspiration. Is what I'm hearing.

But ethically, is that a good decision? Ethically very dubious. dubious perk and some people call you. They do. Well Dave, what a fantastic report. How grim was that? Well, that's what the Patriot was. Well, not what everyone wanted. Yeah. It's the ninth most photo-photophore topic of blockbuster tober 2023.

They love Grimm. They love Grimm. And we love to know that so many technological and scientific advances have come because of Nazis. Yes, and people being murdered. Nazis that have faced zero consequences for being Nazis. Hey, they got medals. That's true, they did get medals

in a new life in America. Just to give everyone an idea of how popular that topic was to get in a ninth position, it got 26.6% of the vote. Whoa. And now mathematicians are gonna be going, how can there be room for eight more topics? But everyone, you were allowed to vote for as many

as you wanted to. So more than one in four people who voted said, tell me about them, Nazis. I wanna hear about that. So there it is. Yeah, amazing stuff. But moving on to a much more joyful topic, and this is thanking some of our most and best

and sexiest friends, which we like to call our Patreon supporters, not their value, but they are all hot. They are all two a person, hot. Two a person. Two a person. Two per person. No. Two a person. we know the phrase to a man but because some of our patients I've never

heard that I've never heard that you haven't heard the phrase to a man no have I made it up so what context would you use it to a man she's hard as in every single one of them to an individual, down to the last, every single one is hot to a person, to a man. Ah, I've never heard that.

Well, I think you've made that up. It could have been made up. It could be just another one of my, what was that? Matterisms. Matterisms, yeah. That's really good. for my... what was that? Matterisms. Matterisms, yeah.

That's pretty good. That's good. Although remember when you thought that solder pup wasn't real and that's gonna be real? I don't recall ever being wrong. I do not recall. Oh, that is...

You don't want to be answering stuff like that in this episode because that does make you sound like you're a nuns. I have not been sold apart. Anyway, so in this section, people who have signed up at patreon.com.se to go and pod our great supporters there on multiple levels. There's all sorts of ways you can get involved. I mean, that's the one way, but there's different things you can get depending on your level, things like that. You can vote on topics as we've just discussed. You can

get early access to tickets to live shows. You can join the Facebook group, the friendliest corner of the internet and bonus episodes as well. Heaps of them. Heaps of them. I, I'm so many. They're on the floor. They're out the door. Please. We're most ever those coming out the ass. We're ass men here and women and I'm it asked bad to an ass man. Every one of them is hot. So yeah, I'm going, we're getting so close to doing a fourth monthly bonus episode for people on the bonus episode level or above, which is I believe the dream boat Cooper level. Anyway, the first thing we like to do to thank some of these great supporters each week is the fact quote a question section section which I actually think has a jingle fact quote a question huh sure I remember as the Jing he always remembers the ding

mm-hmm Jing Bing Jing yep forget to say sing and been a while the way yeah because they've not been doing the last few solo mm-hmm I think oh I've been pushing my voice really hard Yeah, he's been singing and ding I'm not cut out for a sing-and-a-ding. You know to train singer like me I'm not I'm a trained dinger though. You are. Thank you. You are the best digger in the biz Uh safety first so people Who are on the Sydney Shawberg level or above get to give us a fact-quad or a question or a braggar or a suggestion or really whatever they like recipes and I read them out for the first time on the show. That's really just to forgive me for saying anything

that is maybe a bit off-colour. That is maybe. Maybe a little off-colour. Maybe I mispronounce something I haven't read it out before okay. The first one comes from and I'm not being defensive. I'm just trying to be honest. Yeah, a little defensive I'm opening a dialogue with the listeners. God, he's so defensive The first one this week comes from What episode is this tape? 415 the first one this week comes from Henry T. Will Hoit. I also knew what episode number I was just in case you wanted to throw it out. What would you do? I would have said 415, but the question was only addressed to the man in the room.

To a man and was addressed to a man. My cat is a white sense of that contest. Ah, yes. So, okay. Henry T. Wilhoid. Okay. A. A. An official hazelnut farmer. That's the title.

Oh, yes. And Henry is offering us a fact this week. Relatively relevant, because it's Stalin related by the looks. Okay. He was mentioned. Wow. Joseph Stalin died in 1953. The Soviet government tried to keep his death a secret. The only reason the US found about his demise was by translating a coded radio message sent by the Kremlin to their allies worldwide. The young army or radio operator who first decoded the message was none other than country

music star Johnny Cash. What? What? What? I'm going to need that again. Johnny Cash decoded the encrypted message that a Naut Stalin was dead. What?

That's amazing. I think that might be the best fact I've ever heard. That, I'm an episode on Johnny Cash. And I don't believe I brought that up because I don't think I knew that. No. That is wild. That's amazing. Oh, I should, and I don't believe I brought that up because I don't think I knew that. No. That is wild. That's amazing.

Oh, I should say, I don't fact check either. I'm reading these out for the first time. So people go, you just got sold a pup, mate. Yeah, which is a thing. Definitely a thing. That's a wild fact. Thank you so much. Wow.

T. Will Hoit for sending in. The next one comes from Tim Wright, aka unpaid intern of self guilt. And Tim is asking a question here, which goes up something like this. Ever since supporting on this website, ever since supporting on the website was shut down, I've been too lazy or forgetful to sign up on the Patreon itself. That's right. For a little while, we had our own website was kind of like our own

system. Our own sort of support system. We did pledge. Yeah. It was like an LDPatre. But then we ended up having, it was too much going on at once. Yes. It got on top of us. But anyway, so Tim continues, the guilt of squatting in the nicest corner of the internet without supporting the podcast has become too much to bear. So here I am. Tim, you're legend. Guilt. Works every time. You don't have to feel guilty, Tim. No, I feel it. Tim goes on to say, you guys have been podcasting for nearly eight years at this point. And a lot has changed in your lives over that time Given this I pose to you the question from an early episode to see if your opinions have been altered so

cremation burial or other Tim says that's a per the usual request my answer is probably cremation It would feel uncomfortable to me that someday in the far future, my grave may be dug up or moved for one of space. At least with cremation, I wouldn't be constrained to one point. Cheers guys. I can't remember what I said at the time,

but I think I'm a cremation guy. Yeah, I mean, unless like, yeah, shoot me into space, no, I don't want to go space. Yeah, cremation. Because then you're a saziot with Nazis. Exactly. And I don't want to do that. I guess yeah, I guess cremation But then like use my ashes to make a diamond or something. Oh, yeah, I'm shooting this face. And then shoot that into space. Hell yeah. I mean, I think I was back on team cremation until I originally did that episode. Yeah. Yeah.

That cremation can go wrong. Yes. I'll just not be done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I want my loved ones to stand there and watch me burn. I'll be written into the will. Watch it. Yeah, I think I'm going to go.

I don't like the idea of it. I still have, I think I'm probably talking about it at like the idea of it. I still have I think I'm probably talking about it at the time. The idea of accidentally having a bit of someone else mixed in with me. Yeah. I want it to be completely cleaned out before I go in there. Okay. Why, you're dead. I know there's something weird about it. It's something weird about being turned into dust too. Oh, what? Duffer. It's all really fucking strange. Scratch it. I'm off it. I'm not going to die. Okay. Choose not to die.

You know who else to die. Next one comes from Ben Johnson. Jesus was going to be Jesus. Is that what you're going to be? He's just going to be just out of friend of one's upon a time to die. But I think he technically did die. He just came back again. Anyway, Ben Johnson.

Ben Johnson, okay, basic bitch boring name. Wow, Ben, wow. But Ben, we know you and we know your, your, your name, you and your name are simpatico. So where you going? No, I was going to, I was trying to figure out how, but my brain isn't working. I was going to say you're not that.

Oh, the curtains don't match the drapes. The sea up. Yeah. The carpet doesn't match the dress. I've got curtains, Andrew. You're really like privacy. Yeah. That up Ben Johnson.

Oh, it's offering us a joke. I don't think we get many of these. Woo! And I don't think we've had a huge hit right before I see it. Let's see. About time this podcast finally had a joke. I bet it'll be good. It's the joke. I bought a dictionary of Amazon the other day.

When it... That was great. You had a bit of a hand move. Does it matter? I bought a dictionary of Amazon down there. Yeah, yeah. Like that. Okay, yeah, yeah, hey, okay.

So what have this in this? What about this? I've seen this. This thing up. So I bought a dictionary of Amazon the other day. When it arrived, all the pages were blank. There were no words to describe my anger. I've got the rhythm as well from that, the punchline. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would know where to describe my anger.

I've got the rhythm as well from that, the punchline. I thought I was still in set up because there was a thing below, which I thought was a punchline, but it was PS happy block. Right, okay. Let me try one more time. I do not get it. I bought a dictionary, so hey.

Hey, where are you? Okay, now you're going too far actually. Okay, I need you to pair it. We're going to a crowd work. Yeah, there's no crowd work like, that's already in there. I'm from Chicago. Okay. Oh, the windy city.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought you did it far. Got him. That's good stuff. I killed God to try stand up. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, take it back. Oh. I bought a dictionary of Amazon the other day. When it arrived, all the pages were blank.

There were no words to describe my anger. Yeah. There were no words to describe my anger. Oh, it's there. There are no words to describe my anger. I agree that the dictionary is blank. Yes. And there's no words. Dave, do you genuinely not get it? Back in good stuff.

He gets it. He gets it. I get it now. Only after the second time. Not enough to laugh. Hold on. Can we edit that? We'll just cut that together. That was like... That was I believe that. That was scary. I know. Yeah. Yeah, you realize you've got eye to tree lines. Yeah. He's faked his all-catham.

Every time. You've never orgasm. Every time. Every time. Are you always faking when you laugh? Yes. But there's one laugh that you do where I think it's genuine though, because you don't do it as often. And it's really cute. I think I was like, I think.

That should be the most fakedable one of all. I think I'm starting a bit like, all right, here we go. Thanks so much, Ben Johnson for that joke. Finally this week, it's Roy Phillips, aka, man in a shoe shine shop who saw Susie shopping and sitting in the shoe shine shop. Not done. You did quite well there.

I think... Now that Johnny casulated, did you ever song about a shoe shine shop. Not done. You did quite well there. I think the other Johnny casualated. Did you ever sung about a shoe shine boy? Maybe probably it feels like that in Johnny Cash would have. Get rhythm, I believe. So Roy is offering us a quote. And I love this quote.

Okay. Hans booby. I'll be quote. Okay. Hans, booby. I'll be your white man. And that was Harry Ellis from Diehard, 1989. Hans, booby. Hans, booby. And I like because it's a spelling booby. It's something that has confounded me for years.

Because it's so close to booby. So Roy's spelled it and this BU BB-U-B-B-Y, which I think I would say, Bobby. That's Bobby. So I think I may be spelled B-U-B-I. I agree. But it's a trick in my seat, aren't we? B-U-Double-B-Y.

But I knew what he meant. That's Bobby. But maybe that's how, like, maybe it's just Australian accent, we'd say, Bobby. Yeah. But maybe that's how, like, maybe it's just a strong accent, we'd say Bobby. But yeah. But that would be booby. I was, I didn't know the name of the actor that played Ellison Die Hard. This name doesn't ring a bell, but I love it.

That actor's name is Heart Bocchna. That's so good. Look at his name. Canadian actor film director screenwriter producer. Heart Bocchna. Heart Bocchna. You don't want him to you don't want him, it's the opposite of normative determinism

that he was never gonna be an open heart surgeon. Like you wouldn't. Yeah. Oh, Dr. Botchner. Dr. Heart Botchner. Thank you so much to Henry, Tim, Ben and Roy. The other thing, well one of the other things we like to do, is shout out to a few of our other great supporters.

And Bob normally comes up with a bit of a game based on the topic at hand. Good luck. I was thinking of something they invented. Maybe a weapon? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. A weapon named.

But under like, Popolation. And the name could be, a lot nicer as well. Yeah, he cover up. It's like, oh, this is a ray that killed turtles. But it was called Operation Cuddles. Cuddles. It will not get better than that. If I can kick itself, I'd love to thank from Lawrence Kansas in the United States. It's Morgan Potter Bell. Morgan Potter Bell.

Should we just... Could it just be their operation name? Could be. Yeah, okay. Rather than a weapon. Operation Bocchna? That's good operation. Heart Bocchna. Operation Heart Bocchna. That's not Operation Was Ephalia.

The patient did not the did not exist for the end Thank you so much Morgan potter bell what a name, but I'd also love to thank from Halifax in great Britain. It's Jamie Jamie operation Die hard. Whoa! That's a good one. That's a good one. How does his brain work?

Fantastic. Well, Operation Hard Die. I forget now, I think die hard. No, no, save Hard Die for another one. We got a few more to go. So good. We got a seven to go. Stop burning them all.

And finally, for me, I'd love to thank for Mercer Island in Washington in the United States. It's Bradley Pertle. Pertle. Operation. Turtle. Oh, Operation Turtle. Bradley Pertle.

Operation Turtle. Yeah. Bradley Turtle from Operation Pertle. Hello, around you. Idiot. Let me go. Bradley Pertle from Operation Turtle. Reporting for duty, sir

They saved it with that incredible performance. Yeah, sir. Sorry Republic, the jury sir Father you a very glass of water Water Bradley Burdle from much Operation turtle can I buddy for a glass of water sir. My favorite Pokemon is Squirtle. Squirtle. May I thank some people? Yes. Thank you so much. I would love to thank from Lacey in Washington. Ryan Norseg. What about Operation Water Walk? Water Walk.

Yeah. Water Walk. Water Walk. Water Walk. Water Walk. Water Walk. Water Walk. Water Walk.

Water Walk. Water Walk. Water Walk. And your work is walk. No, I'm not going to make it. I could fix. Walk to walk. And your work is walk. No, I can fix his mat's confused. Water. A water. We told that. Whoa.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Up I should walk. Beautiful language. Thank you, Ryan. I would also love to thank from the Blue Mountains in New South Wales. Beautiful.

Zach Forbes. Oh, it's going to be the Blue Mountains Panther. Operation Panther. Operation Blue Mountains Panther. Operation Pantera, which is Spanish for Panther, maybe? That's sick. Operation Panther. Operation Panther, that fucking rules. Yeah, that's pretty maybe. That's sick. Operation Panther. Operation Panther, that fucking rules. Yeah, that's pretty good.

That's cool. That one must have been taken early. I'm gonna show you. Operation was probably called Panther. Yeah, it's a cool sounding. You start Panther and then you get, where to from there though? Yeah, that's true.

Panther clip, South of the hundreds. You got to pay the clip. Yeah, that's true. From Panther to paper clip. Yeah, I just wanted to pay the clip. I just wanted to pay the clip. 100 From Apeclyphic And finally for male love to thank from address unknowns we can only assume deep within the fortress of the malls Tommy de bag Tommy de bag I wonder if it's any relation to

Chris deburg I don't know how naming conventions work in other parts of the world like the mole or don't take it or could be Tommy D back to her on D back to back to her Tommy D bag Wow operation baggy shorts baggy shorts baggy trowel baggy trowel baggy trowel You got to drop baggy trail. Operation baggy trail. That's lovely.

On the Tommy D bag or Tommy Debag. I would like to thank from Green Bay, Wisconsin I believe this is. Yeah, cheesehead country. Go, cheesehead. Go cheeseheads. Whatever that means. I would like to thank from Green Bay,

Mitch, my girlfriend's middle name is McCabe Rudolph. Go cheese heads, whatever that means. I would like to thank from Green Bay Mitch. My girlfriend's middle name is McCabe Rudolph. Wow. McCabe's a great middle name. Yeah. McCabe. Dare I say Operation McCabe? Oh, yeah.

It's so good. Operation McCabe. McCabe. That's good. Oh, McCabe, you've done it again. You will not get that in Wisconsin, but Mitch. I mean, I barely get it in Australia. Okay, there's an ad on TV for chips.

Ah, the cane. You've done it again. Yeah, the company's called McCain. It's probably an American thing. You might as well as butt. Ah, the cave. You've done it a game. Yeah, that's how it would work.

Who's Gabe? You've done it a game. Operation McCabe. That's good. I would also like to thank from... Oh my god, listen, what's one thing? There's warming up the butt. Me, me, my boy.

I would like to thank from Hillsborough, New Jersey, it's Samantha. La Roca. Roca. Like rocket. La Roca. Operation. Rocking cheer.

Oh, that's good. What about Operation Rocket cheer? Like rocket. Rocket. The rocket. Operation. Rocking chair. Oh, that's good. What about Operation Rocket Chair? No. Rocking Chair. Don't you think that's kind of menacing? Yeah. Imagine you walk into a room and there's a rocking chair in the corner and it's slightly rocking.

Yeah. That's creepy issue. Yeah, but then if you notice that I had rockets attached to it, I'd be fine. Okay. Pretty exciting. Operation. Rocking Chair. No, it's still called rocking chair. It just has rockets attached to it. Okay. be okay pretty pretty solid operation and a rock and chair not it's still called rocking chair just has rockets attached okay yeah I'm not yeah yeah and there's a doll on it on there's a guy playing banjo on it and

then on his lap is a doll playing banjo and it's head spins around that's pretty menacing but're beautiful banjos. Oh, lovely. What an instrument. Yeah, Jullin' Banjos. Fantastic. The more banjos the better. The man, I should say, is Steve Martin. Yeah. Wow. And his head turns around.

No, that's the doll. The doll. Can you pay attention for five seconds? Honestly, no. We got one final name here. finally I'd like to thank from Sutherland in New South Wales it's Meg T. Meg T. Oh, I wonder if there's any relation to T-bag. T-bag? Probably not there. One of the any relation to the Meg. Oh. Wow, Operation Jason Stapher. Oh my god. So good. Operation Jason Stap my oh my god. Oh, so good operation Jason stay what makes you think I'd risk my life for you

What makes you think I'm a Meg jump is a mech? I'm now pronouncing man and Meg Honestly, we are on the patreon. We have a Martha podcast called phrasing the bar where we have watched a We are on Patreon, we have a monthly podcast called Frazing the Bar where we have watched an in-conlogical order one Brendan Fraser Film a month for nearly over three years. There's only six to go. We don't know what we're going to do after that. We've been talking about other movies. Are we going to talk about Ellen Ruck?

What the Ruck? Go Ruck yourself. We love the Ruck. Or Jason Statham's come up. We couldn't think of a good name, but I think Operation Jason Statham is an incredible name for podcast. I think Man and Knife is a great name for a podcast. To a man and Knife.

To really bring, yeah, make people understand what's going on. Yeah, otherwise it doesn't make any sense. To make it timeless. Or the other idea is we just, we do a movie club where we watch good movies. No, no, let's continue to punish ourselves forever. Or watch movies that have related to past episodes. Is there been an operation paper cut movie? Because there was an operation mincemeat movie after that.

Yeah, there was. I never watched that. No, I never did either, but I always thought maybe we'll watch it for the Patreon one day. No, I never did either, but I always thought maybe we'll watch it for the Patreon one day. So that brings us, oh, I should just say quickly. Thank you so much to Meg, the Meg. Maybe that's so T, Meg T might be T for the. Yeah, Meg, come on up. Yeah.

Thank you Meg. Samantha Mitch, Tommy, Zach, Ryan, Bradley, Jamie, and Morgan. The last thing we like to do here is welcome some of our great supporters into the Patreon Triptitch Club. Welcome. We know it's pronounced Triptitch. Now we do. For a couple of years we didn't, but that was because Dave said it wrong on episode

one, and we've come with it since then. Absolutely. My auntie's was wrong. Anyway, welcome into the Triptage Club. This week there's only one inductee. Jess, you're normally sitting behind the bar of this Triptage Club. Can you explain it from your vantage point? Well, there's a few inductees. Okay, I'm thinking of a different episode. Maybe that five, but what it is is I like to imagine that it's like an airport lounge.

It's a cool, exclusive club, a gentleman's club, but not gross and not- To a man, to a gentleman. To a gentleman. Um, where- No toilet. We have. Only you're annoying. Yeah, for band.

Uh, the Dave books, I'm behind the bar. Um, this week, I've got, um, explosive food for you. I got, thank God. I thought you were about to confide in us about a condition. You might be suffering No, the or derives I have for you are exploding in flavor. Oh Pesto mostly I'm just out of the pesto to pretty much everything. Yeah. And what are Nazis ate? Nachos. Okay, I've got nachos. Oh, my fucking favorites.

Oh, god. Yeah, so you should be happy I've got them. Thank you. I just sort of, nachos, nachos, and it's a lot. Yes, it worked. I'm pretty confident that nachos didn't eat many nachos. I think you're okay to continue eating nachos, Dave. Not.

It's good to me. I'm so sorry, but I have them and they're delicious. They would have eaten sourcrout and stuff that you don't want anyway. Oh, my other favorite part. And that's worse. Oh, the big three. Oh, no.

Nachos. Sourcrout. Brat works. Yeah, he loves it. Damn. Sorry, mate. Dave also books a band. That's right for the after party. Yeah. Who's paying tonight? You're never gonna believe it. What? I've actually booked a mini festival tonight. Really?

We've got and obviously a book a festival. You've got to book that out months if not years in advance sometimes. Yeah, but you're never gonna believe it It's actually called the paperclip festival and we have one or no we've got all of the 11 bands called paperclip on Spotify. We'll be appearing live 11 bands called paperclips. There's paperclips, there's paperclip people, paperclip minimizer, paper space clip and then eight with the name just paperclip one word. Boy shaped paperclip. Oh my god there's so many paperclip, There's a bank called paperclip worship. These paper clips. Paperclip tank. And they're all appearing live in the Turkish club. It's going to be huge. I'm really excited. So Dave's MC and he's on stage.

Yeah. I'm at the door. I'm the dancer. I'm the muscle. And I've got my list here. Five names on it. I've just added four to it quickly. I've suggested one of me. And I'm going to read these out, lift up the velvet rope. If you hear name run on in, Dave will hop you up on stage with a bit of weak wordplay just a little hop Dave up the crowd will go wild. And we'll part of the wild. So I must because of the weak wordplay. Or maybe maybe it's because the word plays amazing and you don't get it Yeah, yeah, it's possible unlikely bit possible. All right. Are we ready? I'm lifting up the road first up welcome in from Stanmore in New South Wales Australia It's Brendan my hill there's only one hill all day on and that's Brendan my

From Maca Naggy here in Melbourne Victoria, it's Lydia, welcome with you're in Karnegi Lydia! From Vania in Ontario, Canada, it's Sam Sutherland. I've got Vania Mania with Sam Sutherland! From Bringsborough in North Carolina, quick fun fact, that is where Thistle do mini golf Started the mini golf craze in America credible fact Wow, it's Brandy bro. He'll there's a second hill

And finally from broken arrow in oh Clahoma the United States is in Newton well Newton had three laws, but there's a fourth one tonight, and that is I love Ian Newton. Yay! Welcome, man, to make yourselves at home, grab yourself an exploding or d'oeuvre, Ian, Brandy, Sam, Lydia, and Brendan. That's beautiful. And as we waddle off to the after party in the club, is there anything else we need to tell them before we go, Bob?

That they can suggest a topic. Anybody can, you don't have to be a patron to suggest a topic. There's a link in the show notes. You can also go directly to our website, which is dogoonpod.com. And you can find us at dogoonpod.com on social media as well. Now Dave, boot this baby home.

Hey, we'll be back next week when Blockbuster Tobeult returns with our eighth, most voted for a topic. How could it be bigger than this? Well there's eight more come and thank you so much for listening. We'll be back then. Until then I'll say thank you and goodbye! Later! Bye! you