Two In The Think Tank - 417 - The Plot to Steal Abraham Lincoln's Body

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

In 1875 an audacious plot to steal President Abraham Lincoln's body was hatched by a rag tag gang of criminals - it's fair to say things didn't go plan! This is the 7th most voted for topic in this year's Block festival, enjoy!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 00:07:09 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSupport the show on Apple podcasts and get bonus episodes in the app: http://apple.co/dogoon Live show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/ Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present. REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.americanheritage.com/plot-steal-lincolns-bodyhttps://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jala/2629860.0029.107/--stealing-lincolns-body?rgn=main;view=fulltexthttps://americanhistory.si.edu/lincoln/funeral-procession Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Just jumping in really quickly at the start of today's episode to tell you about some upcoming opportunities to see us live in the flesh. And you can see us live at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival 2024. We are doing three live podcasts on Sundays at 3.30 at Basement Comedy Club, April 7, 14 and 21. You can get tickets at dogo1pod.com. Matt, you're also doing some shows around the country. That's right. I'm doing shows with Saren Jayamana, who's been on the show before. We're going to be in Perth in January, Adelaide in February, Melbourne through the festival in April, and then Brisbane after that. I'm also doing Who Knew It's in Perth and Adelaide. Details for all that stuff at mattstuartcomedy.com.

We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On.

My name is Dave Warnke and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins. Sup you turds. Hello. Jeez. Some sort of energy to bring to the show but great to see you again Jess Perkins and Dave Warnke. And to you. And to everyone at home, hello. Oh, man, everyone at home. Week three of Block.

Can you believe it? We're right in the thick of Block now. We're waist deep. Things are getting serious. Yeah. It feels right. We're wading further and further into Block. Into muck.

And by the end of November, we are going to be up to our freaking eyeballs and stuff. Oh, my God. Maybe even worse. And then we've got to get out. Yeah. Which is lucky because December drops a poll in and brings us all back to safety. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm following.

Okay. Dave, explain what block is for new listeners. Block Buster Toba, a.k.a. Block Topher Grace period, is Do Go On's month of months. And I do mean months because it used to just be October. Now it's November as well. It's been annexed as Blowvember. And basically, it's the time of year where we do our biggest, our bestest, our blockbusteriest topics.

Matt put together a huge poll of our most requested topics and said, hey, what do you want to hear about? You can pick as many as you like. Thousands of people voted on this poll and only nine competitors were left standing. We've already ticked off two of those. This is the seventh most voted for topic of Blockbustertober 2023. And as always, we do a report on a topic and that's going to be the topic this week. It's number seven. It's Matt's turn to report on the topic. we always start with a question matthew any questions come to mind yeah this one i think you might find this one tricky but let's see this episode is kind of a sequel to episode 69 nice do you remember what topic was covered way back then of course yep and do you want to say it out loud no i don't okay but i remember in the But I remember it. You plead in the fifth? I remember it, and I plead the fifth.

Episode 69. I'm pleading the 69th, which is a way sexier response in court. Oh, no. Cleopatra. All right. Dave's had his guess. Jess, I'll give you a clue. Yep.

It was about a world leader meeting his untimely demise. Cleopatra. A world leader. That untimely demise. Cleopatra. A world leader. That wasn't... No, I don't know. Can I have a second crack here? Yeah. Abraham Lincoln.

That's right. But the topic, of course, that time was his killer. Oh, yes. I can't remember the name either. William H. Macy. John H. Macy. Stad John Wilkes name either. William H. Macy. John H. Macy. Stad. John Wilkes Booth.

John Wilkes Booth, that's right. That was episode 69. I didn't realise it was so far back, but it was back at the original Stupid Old Studios, I reckon. No, it wasn't. It was the second one, I reckon. Doesn't matter. Incredible.

I also would have said it was a bit more recent than that, but there you go. Yeah. Anyway, this week's topic, as voted on by more than 27% of voters, block voters. And there were thousands of votes. Thousands of voters. So, more than one in four of those voters wanted this topic. The plot to steal Abraham Lincoln's body.

I forgot that that was one of the options. Oh, my gosh. So, this has been suggested by a few people, including Lynn from Washington, Aaron Wolfe from Daytona Beach, Megan Chivos Frazier from Pennsylvania, Jason Frey from Orlando, Florida, Carl Haggerty from Wabash, Indiana, in the United States, John Percy from Grand Rapids, Michigan in the US, and Alison B. Day from Lahey, Utah. Alison B. Day. Alison B. Day?

Bidet. Like a bidet? Alison Bidet. No, Alison Middle Initial B. Alison's B-Day? Alison B. Day. She don't be night. She don't be cray. She don't be cray.

She be day. Yeah. So, I think that's- That'd be one of the rare times where every suggester is American. Yeah. Wow. Because I'd never heard of this story. That's because no one else cares about Lincoln.

Whoa. No one else cares. Whoa. Speak for yourself. I am. No one cares. No one cares. Whoa.

Speak for yourself. I am. No one cares. Did either of you know that Anasabe's body was once subject of a plot to- No. No, and I'd love to know, and you're going to tell us, obviously, but at a guess, I'm imagining it's way back then, but imagine if it was like five years ago. Yeah.

Broke into his crypt or whatever he is. He's mostly dust, but we're going to see what we can get. I got him. I got the beard dust. They go in with a dust buster, a little vacuum. Got him. Suck him up. They suck him up.

They sucked up a president. Beautiful tribute. To a beautiful man. Beautiful man. Beautiful beard. As we went, was it on this show or who knew it with Matt Stewart that he is inducted into the Wrestling Hall of Fame? Oh, that's right.

Oh, yeah. We were on the episode, weren't we? Because he did some wrestling before he became president. Yeah, he was like almost unbeatable as a wrestler. But he was tall and skinny, right? Yeah. Wow. Was he 9'10 or something?

Was he 9'10? I think he might have been 9'10, 9'11. But that was his build height. They always exaggerate it in the WWE. He's probably like 9'8. They counted the top hat. Yeah. He wrestled in the top hat.

He can barely move because he's balancing a hat at all times. It's funny. This is our second topic that looks at him in either his last days or after his last days. We still haven't talked about his life. Nah, who cares? No one. That's who.

Can we do... We could maybe one day finish the triptych... Nah! ...with the prequel. Not on my watch. A flashback. The life and times of Honest Abe. Nah, not on my watch.

Make sure that's one when I'm away, boys. Not bloody interested. I'll stop you right there. I don't know where this has come from, but I'm enjoying it. I'm loving it. I don't care about Abraham Lincoln. That is canon. One day Matt asks the question for his next topic,

which president? If it's Lincoln, you can fuck off. If it's Lincoln, I'm leaving right. If it's Lincoln, I'm leaving right now, mate. Lincoln, I'm leaving. Yeah, I mean, in a lot of ways, I also don't care. See how he tries to piggyback? See how he always does this? I refuse to piggyback.

You've got very strong legs. Imagine me trying to piggyback on Dave. He'd collapse. You wouldn't make it. I don't piggyback. I love Lincoln. You're a Lincoln lover. Yep.

See, at least he can form his own opinion, though. Hold on a stab. What? Wait, and do we like that? And do we like that about Dave, or... What do we think of Dave? So, I can't remember if I mentioned this on episode 69, but hours before Lincoln was assassinated, he signed the legislation that founded the Secret Service. Does that ring any bells?

It didn't ring my bells. No, but it feels like he probably could have got them in a little sooner. Because their job is to protect the president, right? It is now, but at the time, the agency's original purpose was to combat the widespread counterfeiting of US currency. Oh, wow. And to restore public confidence in the money. Right, but did they pivot when they saw that president? Three hours later, it was shot in the widespread counterfeiting of US currency. Oh, wow. And to restore public confidence in the money. Right, but did they pivot when they saw their president?

Three hours later, it was shot in the head. Actually, maybe currency shouldn't be our main focus. There's a real gap in the market over here. Yeah, I think it was after maybe another president got knocked off that they finally went, hang on. Yeah, the money's nothing without the president, which was beautiful for them. That's actually so true, though, isn't it? So true, so beautiful went, hang on. Yeah. The money's nothing without the president, which was beautiful for them. That's actually so true, though, isn't it?

So true, so beautiful, so poignant. Oh, yes. But that's, when I think of Secret Service, I think secrets, I think whispers. Yes. I think, you know, stolen glances from across the room. No, now you're thinking romance. I think romance. Unrequited love.

Yes. Forbidden fruit. Bananas. Really big ones. Really big bananas. Anyway, in the 1860s, the Secret Service was required because counterfeiting money was big business. It's believed that as much as half the US currency in circulation at the time was dodgy.

Half. Some said a third, half. But, like, a lot of the money was fake money. When I was in grade six, they had this program every year at my primary school. I think it was called Earn and Learn. Did you ever have this? So, basically, you picked a business that you wanted to start and then there was currency given at the start

and then you literally go out on Friday afternoons and, like, I think I did a milkshake place where I had ice cream, had a milkshake maker, and then for five of the fake dollars, I'd do that, but then I'd go down the end of the street and then, you know, on the basketball court and there's a kid selling plants. You could put a plant on your desk, all this kind of stuff.

And it worked great until one kid got a photocopier and all the money was on coloured, like, blue for fives, green for tens, whatever, and just photocopied, like, tens of thousands of dollars of fake money. You're going over with a wheelbarrow. All of a sudden, inflation's out of control. Ruined the whole program. They had to shut the whole thing down because suddenly-

Was that his stall, the photocopier? Yeah. But that's the lesson. Totally. I mean, that's life for you. So they put him in Erdeland jail. They put him in the stocks. White collar.

Wow. And what's that kid doing now? Probably some sort of multi-billionaire. Yeah. Yeah. Not for long. The system now? Probably some sort of multi-billionaire. Yeah. Yeah. Not for long. The system works. He will be in prison any day now, but guys, living a great life.

He's got at least a Lamborghini for a while. What was his name? Maybe just first name. Jason. So, the Jason of the day in the 1860s was this guy called Ben Boyd. And he made these plates for fake money to be printed off, but he made the best in the 1860s was this guy called Ben Boyd and he made these uh plates for fake money to be printed off but he he made the best in the business called Peggy Robertson writing for American Heritage Boyd was regarded by crooks and cops alike as the very finest of engravers

and was the prime source of unauthorized money one of his five dollar plates was so perfect that over 300,000 bills were known to have been printed from it and passed without mishap by one gang alone. Wow. 300,000 notes. Yeah. That's amazing. So, you can understand how quickly the whole country would be flooded. And this one house cost 18 cents.

Yeah, yeah. Easy. He bought the whole country. And he's made $300,005 notes. That's an untold sum. Yeah. Maths hasn't even got to the stage where I could answer that. No, it's like pie.

The number just keeps going. Aguses? Aguses. What do you call those things? Abacuses. Abacuses don't even count that high. Even abacuses. The highest form of counting.

Abacuses. Abacuses. So, yeah, he's the guru of it. The highest form of counting. Abacuses. Abacuses. So, yeah, he's the guru of it. And that's one gang. So, the system was kind of like you'd have on the ground, they were called passers. So, you'd have the, you know, they were the front line. And they'd go in and put a couple of notes in at a time into shops and stuff.

I'll buy, you know, I'll buy. I'll buy that house. I'll buy that house. I'll buy that house. Here's a couple of notes. Here's your change. Can I get, I'll get, you know what, the whole top shelf of houses? I'll have those. Where's my change?

You can have a garage for change. Yeah, and then so these are individual gangs, but they are in different cities. So he's printing money out and they're going out to all these different gangs filtering out into the community, but he's making heaps and heaps of these notes. The treasury of the United States ultimately realized these notes were so close to the real thing that they recalled their genuine $5 bills from circulation to combat it. They're like, basically we can't compete with them,

so we're just going to kill off that note as it is. There's no more fives. Yeah, I guess they changed it or whatever, but it's high praise. Wow. One of Boyd's collaborators, or perhaps his boss, depending on who you're reading, was a guy called Big Jim Cannelli. But I'll just call him Big Jim. Big Jim had previously been done for passing a dodgy note,

which apparently led to him serving a five-year term at the Illinois State Penitentiary. So, they were cracking down on it pretty hard. And do you get one year per dollar? Per dollar, yeah. Wow. Well, when you think about it, it's like stealing 500,000 houses. That's a lot, Dave. Yeah, for five years for 500,000 houses. That's a lot, Dave.

Yeah, for five years to 500,000 houses, that's a good deal. I'd serve five years to 500,000 houses. Would you? Yeah. So, if I could serve one day to get one house, I'd prefer that. Okay, all right. I'd do a week. For seven houses?

Yeah. Okay. Can I choose where the houses are? Yeah, you can also choose which week you do. And you do the time in your houses. Yeah, it's all house arrest. Oh, okay. That's not too bad.

That sounds quite nice. Where would I have my houses? Obviously, one in the city. On the top shelf, I thought they were. Oh, then- Where would the houses be? Oh, you buy the house. Yes, and you put it down somewhere.

Could I get that house to go? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they deliver or you just chuck it in a bag? I don't know. Do you want me to wrap it? Is it a present or is it for you?

Do you need a gift receipt just in case you don't like it? Just in case you don't like this house. Not the right size house. You don't fit this house. So, he's trying to stay out of trouble after getting out of the clink. He's done a five-year stretch. Big Jim's out. He wants to stay out of trouble.

So, he sort of- He tidies himself up a little bit and he no longer is on the ground level. Instead, he hits the straight and narrow by being a counterfeit money wholesaler. Oh, right. Practically. Yeah. Practically clean as a whistle. Yeah.

So he sells the notes made by Boyd's plates, those perfect plates. He sells them in bulk through his network out to the gangs who then pass them out on the streets. Unfortunately, though, for Big Jim, Boyd was arrested in 1875 and sentenced to 10 years behind bars. And this is his golden goose, basically. He's the guy who makes it all possible. He's the genius. It feels like he should be doing 1.5 million years. Yeah.

At least. Yeah, the sums don't add up, do they? You get one note, oh, you're five years. You've done all the notes, oh, 10 years. What's the system here? We don't have abacuses that go that high, okay? We've got two numbers at this stage. Tens of max.

This is the 1870s, goddammit. We've got five or ten. According to Robertson, this left Big Jim and his network of printers, wholesalers, and passers virtually jobless. The prime Midwestern wholesaler of all those perfect counterfeit bills now had nothing to sell. You probably figured out why they call them pastors. I think it's, I don't, I didn't really look it up,

but I assume it's because they'd pass the notes. It's an interesting assumption you've made. Okay. Well, I mean, what would you? I assume they're all somebody's hall pass. Oh, yeah. I misheard. I think you're saying pastor.

Pastors. There you go. Fuseli. So never assume we're thinking the same as you. Because I can almost guarantee we're not. Hi, we're Jess and Dave and we're idiots. So Big Jim decided he somehow had to come up with a plan to get his man Boyd out of prison.

He's like, what do I got to do? How do you think he would have gone about it? I was thinking maybe like bribing a judge, audacious jailbreak. I'm thinking jackhammer. Yeah. Just straight through the wall. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

For a while. Yeah. He's got to break through the whole wall. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For a while. Yep. Because you've got to break through the whole wall. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. And then. I thought you were clearing your throat. You're really working yourself up for this.

That's what I'm thinking. What are you thinking, Dave? I reckon probably like a fake heart attack. Oh. Get in the ambulance. Get to the infirmary. Yeah. They're about to load you.

They're about to cremate you. Bang. You're out. So to the infirmary. Yeah. They're about to load you. They're about to cremate you. Bang. You're out. So, Big Jim fakes a heart attack from outside a prison, or he lets Boyd know inside the prison a fake heart attack. Yeah. And then Big Jim also fakes a heart attack. They're in the same ward together.

Oh, yeah. They're in the heart attack ward. And you go, Big Jim, he doesn't sound that healthy. He's probably going to have another heart attack. The heart attack ward. Yeah. Perfect crime. So, have we nailed it?

No. Your ideas were ridiculous. Big Jim's plan was to steal Abraham Lincoln's decaying corpse and use it as leverage to trade for Boyd's freedom. Oh, my God. So, it was like the topic of the report today. It's also one of the most simple ideas. You know sometimes ideas are so simple you wouldn't even consider it?

Yeah. You know, it's too simple, but actually. Steal the ex-president's body and hold it as a ransom. Yeah. Oh, my God. Of course. Yeah. But that's, so many people have probably done that.

You wouldn't even bother. You know what I mean? It's a hack. Yeah. How many had they done it back then? I don't think they had. There you go. That's the genius of it.

Since then, every president's body has been stolen, so it means nothing to us anymore. It's become hack now. Yeah. But back then. It was quite clever. Yeah. He was decades ahead of his time.

Well, let's go back to Abraham Lincoln and his death. So, he was the 16th US president, and he was assassinated around 10 years prior to this on April the 14th, 1865. So, they're not stealing some recent mint condition president body. He's not going to be- he's going to be a little sloppy, I think. Although he- apparently he was one of the first to pioneer embalming. He was like happy to be embalmed and stuff, so- Right, so that's why they chose him, maybe. Maybe they picked him. He was, like, happy to be embalmed and stuff. Right. So that's why they chose him, maybe.

Maybe they picked him. He was also nearby, I think. Proximity. And, yeah, he was a big star. He was, like, a pretty famous president. Yeah. Even then. Even then, when there hadn't been as many.

Yeah. Now there's been fucking heaps of them. And he's still- He'd still be up there. Is he the most famous one? He'd be up there. Yeah. Think of a president.

Name a president, Dave. Name one now. Name one, quick. Of America. Ronald Reagan. Ooh. Jess, name a president. Obama.

Of anything. Okay. Quick, Matt, name a president. Seven. Okay, president. Who's the seventh president? Jim. Jim Simpson.

Jim Belushi. Jim Belushi was the seventh president. Wow. Yeah. Of the Writers Guild. Oh, okay. Or something, maybe. I couldn't think of any presidents of anything.

Andrew Clinton. He was the Saints president in the 90s. Seventh president, Andrew Jackson. Andrew Jackson. He's a famous one. And you called him Jim. He was the guy I loved to duel. I think he was in your episode of World's Worst Duels, wasn't he, Dave?

He was. You're absolutely right. And he's on the $10 note and he looks like Australian comedian Wayne Hope, if I'm thinking of the right guy. Oh, wow. So you know quite a lot about Andrew Jackson. Just not his name. Or where he came in the scheme of things.

Number seven, did you say number seven beautiful number anyway so lincoln assassinated in 1865 we talked about this in quite a lot of detail in episode 69 so what happened to his body after that according to the national museum of american history on april the 19th 1865 so so talking five days later, an estimated 25 million Americans attended memorial services for Lincoln in Washington and around the country. 25 million. That's so many. That's about around the current population of Australia.

The US population at the time was 31 million. Whoa! Everyone. Yeah. But they didn't have much on back then. Imagine what the six million who just stayed at home or went to the shops must have had the best day. Well, yeah. They could have gone to park anywhere.

Oh, you'd have everything to yourself. Yeah. I'd go straight to the water park. Oh, yeah. No rides for those slides. No rides for those slides. No lines for the rides. No rides for those slides.

Am I right? Go and high five someone. No lines. No rides for those slides. Am I right? Go and high five someone. No one's there. No one's there. No rides for those fives. I'm losing it. We never had it, but, yeah, we are losing it. No rides for those slides.

Two cents. I know. Because in my head I was like, I can't believe I'm coming up with this. This is amazing. It rhymes and makes sense. What are the odds? And then he paused and looked at me like I was an idiot. I was like, that's right.

I did the wrong. I'm that good. Huh. Okay. There you go. I fucked up. The article on the National Museum of American History continues. Lincoln's body lay in state at the US Capitol Rotunda

and then travelled on a funeral train that retraces route to Washington in 1861. Route. Route. Route to Washington. Route to Washington. I've seen that one. And it was 1,700 miles long.

That's a long route. Is that all? So they just chuck the body on a train and take it around and stop every now and then for people to have a look? Exactly. Basically, they took it on a farewell tour. That's so good. You know, we talk about it a bit on this show that in the olden days, they'd go out and see a train. But this makes some more sense.

Yeah. I'm not necessarily myself going to see a body No But I need to know Not too long ago That line to see the Queen's body Yeah But was this an open casket train?

Could you see anything? Or were you looking at a train Knowing he's in there somewhere? They brought I think they brought the body off the train At a bunch of stops Imagine being the people loading him in and out Yeah apparently

In ten cities His casket was removed from the train for elaborate memorial services and public viewings. Wow. And newspapers published the train schedule so that citizens could pay their last respects as it passed. So if you went from one of the big towns, you'd go by the railway line and just be like, bye, Link. Thank you. That's what his close friends might have called him like, bye, Link. Thank you.

That's what his close friends might have called him. Thank you, Link. Or fans. His close friends probably weren't standing by the train tracks. The nine-car funeral train carried 300 guests. What? As well as the casket, obviously, to Springfield, Illinois. The funeral procession in New York lasted four hours

and included an estimated 120,000 marches. That's a lot of marches. And that's a long parade. Too long. Is anyone watching? Everyone's in the parade. It's just one person waving it as 120,000 people walk past. Yeah, you're the lucky guy on that day going, oh, everyone's at these memorials.

Where am I going to go? I'm going to go watch that parade. You're the lucky guy on that day going, oh, everyone's at these memorials. Where am I going to go? I'm going to go watch that parade. And then on May the 3rd, 1865, the train reached its final destination in Springfield. And the following day, Lincoln's body was placed in its tomb. Apparently, the city of Springfield was keen to have the body right in the middle of town for tourism and stuff.

But his wife's like, no, I don't want him in the middle of town. I want him on the edge of town. And they, like, started pushing for it. She's like, I'll take the body altogether. If you want the body, it's on the edge of town or nothing. And they're like, all right, put it on the edge of town. Put the coffin down. It's okay.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Oh, that's so, so good. Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. Hey, let's think about this. Hey, hey, sugar cube. I think she's a horse. Patting her big face. Big, long face.

Hey, shh, shh, shh. That's a good girl. Who's a beautiful girl? So I guess he was, yeah, there must be a reason why he was taken there because he wasn't born there. He was born in a sinking spring farm in Kentucky. Well, we know why it's not buried there. That's no longer there.

It's sunk. It's gone. Why? The spring has taken it. Yeah. Buried in Springfield. There's a lot of Springfields in America as well, aren't there? Yeah.

Although, this is according to Abraham Lincoln online.org. I trust this website. Abraham. Abraham. Although Lincoln was born in Kentucky, grew up in Indiana, and served the nation in Washington, he was buried in Illinois where he had developed strong community ties. Two years before his assassination, he wrote

Springfield is my home and there more than elsewhere are my lifelong friends. Oh, that's nice. So that's nice that they ended up putting him there. But didn't want to be in the centre of town. Well, his wife didn't want to be in the centre of town. I guess they didn't want to make it a circus, you know. She didn't want to have to struggle to get a park

every time she wanted to visit him. That's a nightmare. They're like, we could just bury him on a roundabout. And then you wouldn't have to park. Yeah, you could just go round and round him. A couple of laps. Do he laps? Laps of age. But they don't like roundabouts.

They like four-way stops. Could they put his body in the middle of a four-way stop? When you say they, who are you talking about? I think Americans. Americans don't like roundabouts? I think that they often have four-way. Isn't that a thing? I don't know. You've got to work out who gives way to who.

They're anti-circles. What? America. They should bloody visit Canberra. Am I right? One big bloody roundabout. Bloody roundabout city up there. More like clowned about. I learn about circles from Sesame Street. I feel like I've been sold a lot here. I learn how to count to 12. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Well, let's learn some more from...

Do-do-do-do-do. From bridalvehicleleasing.co.uk. Today it's estimated that there are 9,000 modern roundabouts in the US. Even though this is much more than they had in the 1990s, the UK has nearly three times as many despite being 40 times smaller. Right, okay. So compared to the UK, but they're circle lovers over there. And sorry, that was on a bridal car website?

Bridalvehicleleasing.co.uk. It is hard to think of content. How do we get them in? Well, here I am. They're the number one thing on Google when you Google USA roundabouts. We're up to episode 416 and we're going okay. They're already down to roundabouts. You've Googled.

How many episodes are they up to on bridal.com? You've Googled, like, what they up to on bridal.com? You've Googled like What did you Google? Roundabouts USA And it's come up with a UK site Yeah, giving them a bit of sass From bridal vehicles Their website is so big

We have great internet here at the studio It's been loading their homepage for about two minutes Wow That's how many blogs They've covered every It's not B-R-I-D-A-L. Oh, what is it? Oh, it's just a company.

It's just a company. Oh, I thought it was a wedding company. Is it not? No, that would be B-R-I-D-A-L. Oh, you're right. It's spelt like a horse's bridle. Oh, okay. Man, I remember all that laughing I was just doing.

I take it all back. It still feels a little bit irrelevant. It's a bit irrelevant. It was even more irrelevant when it was, you know, wedding cars. Dave, don't turn your computer around again, mate. Yeah. Don't you ever do that to me again. That was so fun.

Let just dream. Let me dream. Let a dream of a world where- Let me have fun. People run a website hiring out cars to brides. Just brides. And also giving facts about other countries. Well, it says that they only got their first modern roundabout in 1990.

Is that possible? Well, modern roundabout. Maybe they don't see 80s roundabouts as being modern. You know? Depends on what they mean by that. First grunge roundabout. Yeah. Came through.

Seattle. Anyway, so. modern you know depends on what they mean by that first grunge roundabout yeah came through seattle um anyway so bridal i didn't even notice love it so lincoln's now on the edge of town in springfield illinois that's where his friends were and that's now where his corpse is and it was from this final resting place that big jim would aim to steal the presidential remains. malicious sale to medical schools. And because of this, the bereaved frequently stood guard at the graveside for weeks after a burial. For weeks. Not normally for 10 years, like they would have had to in this case. But they're thinking you do it for weeks until you're like, they're pretty gross in there. Yeah.

No one wants this. No one wants to cut this up. I know they want to steal a freshie. Yeah. But imagine you're at medical school doing sort of like, you know, learning about stuff and then you're like doing an autopsy and you're like, is that Abraham think that looks like abraham lincoln i can't i can't tell without the hat quick get a hat get a hat oh my god but to be fair if i put the hat on this other dead body now that looks like we've got two lincolns what are the odds of that in our little establishment? Wow. And now that place is called 2LincolnCadaverWorkshop.org

and you can visit it. So, Big Jim set about putting together a ragtag team of misfits and ne'er-do-wells for the job. I love a ragtag bunch. In early 1876, he organised Ben Sheridan, or if you read a different article, Thomas Sharp. Anyway, he organised some guy who was one of his counterfeiting agents to lead the team.

Appropriately, Sheridan was from nearby Lincoln, Illinois. The plan was to snatch Lincoln's body from its tomb in Springfield, then hide it south of Lincoln until a ransom of $200,000 was paid and Boyd was released from prison. So they've upped the ante. We want Boyd out, but while we're here, might as well. Cash. Cash. Big Jim paid for Sheridan and four of his gang members to head to Springfield a few weeks prior to prepare.

Apparently, they were meant to be setting up a saloon bar in a building Big Jim had rented as a base. I didn't fully follow the logic there. But it sounds like a lot of the preparation ended up being the gang just getting on the drink. And perhaps unsurprisingly, this led to some issues. According to Robertson, they planned to move on the night of July 3rd, not just the night before. July 4th. And I think maybe that was part of the plan.

Everyone's distracted. We hit them then. Was the 4th of July already a thing in the 1870s? I mean, you're saying that to us. Definitely. That date existed in the 1870s. Okay, good. I can't remember when July was invented. I think it was, from memory, it existed in the 1870s. Okay, good. I can't remember when July was invented.

I think it was from memory, it was like the 1840s. So, it was new, but it was definitely... It was already a thing, yeah. Great. Well, 1870... Sorry, 1777. So, it's almost the 100-year anniversary of... Did they celebrate the 99-year

anniversary? I wonder. Yeah. I was going to read some more and I thought, oh, this is boring. What are we going to read? So, it's funny that July... This is from PBS. History of Independence Day.

July 8, 1776 was the first public readings of the Declaration of Independence, held in Philadelphia's Independence Square. Sorry, I fell asleep. I'm feeling wide awake, Dave. I'm energised. I have my own opinion on this one. Yes, Dave?

Do go on. Oh, I've poured myself over here. I was going to say, one year later. Well, it've poured myself over here. I was going to say, one year later. Well, it's not one year later. It's July 4th, 1777. It's like four days shy of a year since it was read. Philadelphia marked Independence Day by adjourning Congress and celebrating with bonfires, bells, and fireworks.

So, I guess it was adapted or adopted, rather, on the 4th of July. But they read it on July the 8th, and nearly a year later, they're like, all right, let's have some. Oh, right. That's interesting. I assumed something happened on that date and something did. They decided to start having the 4th of July. They set up some fireworks.

So, yeah, so it had been a thing for quite a while at this point then. So the plan was for it to happen on July 3rd, but with just two weeks to go, Sheridan succumbed to temptation. Touring Springfield's brothels, he confided in one of his hostesses that his little band was going to, quote, steal old Lincoln's bones, collect a ransom, and spend the proceeds in the ladies' establishment. She told the sheriff, and the next morning, through a monumental hangover, Sheridan learned of his indiscretion. You idiot. Sheriff and the next morning through a monumental hangover Sheridan learned of his indiscretion big Jim Keneally washed his hands of the gang and Ben Sheridan was professionally disgraced so I think he was he might have found it hard to get work in the um underground after that so he's kind of gone into it thinking that um like uh like doctors sex workers had a confidentiality.

Oh, yes. Doctor-patient. And they don't. Like a lawyer. They can fucking tattle all they like. Back then, especially. Do psychologists have that? I think psychologists are doctors, aren't they?

No. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Is my psychologist telling everybody about me? Yeah. Oh, my God. It doesn't need. Is my psychologist telling everybody about me? Yeah. Oh, my God. That doesn't need to. They're broadcasting it.

That would imply that it was interesting. The things I've heard on your psychologist podcast about you. What? Well, it's mainly about me and Dave, and it's not good. Yet you refuse to change. You've heard how I feel, and yet you do nothing. Man, I'm trying. Not very hard.

Not hard at all. So, yeah, so the first plan came unstuck before it even really began. Just keep your fucking mouth shut. Yeah. No, sorry, that was to you. Okay. But it always happens. We've had so many stories where they've gotten drunk and told someone.

I mean, when you have a great idea, it's hard to keep it to yourself. It's sort of like when you buy somebody a great gift and you can't- You're really excited to give it to them. Oh, I got you a great gift. Yeah. You just can't- You're like, oh, I want to tell you what it is. But it is what's funny as well because it's like, I'm going to get a lot of money.

I'm going to spend it here. Yeah. You're about to get some money from me. And she's like, I'm going to get a lot of money, I'm going to spend it here. Yeah. You're about to get some money from me. And she's like, I'm going to go tell the sheriff. After you do what? Yeah. Steal a 10-year-old deceased president. That sounds pretty full on, dude.

Yeah. And then he'd be like, no, the president wasn't 10-year-old. You've said that funny. And she went, well, you know what I mean. The president wasn't 10 years old, but he's been dead for 10 years old and his body is 10 years old. Yeah. Well, agree to disagree.

Yeah. And it was that sort of sass that pushed her over the edge. She was like, you know what? Fuck this guy. I'm going to the sheriff. I don't need your bony money. Yeah. And then she went to the bedroom, one bedroom across where the sheriff was

and said, sheriff, got some news. Sheriff, I hope you don't mind me interrupting. It is important. I've got to interrupt this bone with news of Lincoln's bones. That would be a great name for a brothel. Lincoln's bones? No, it wouldn't. Or we interrupt this bone.

We interrupt this bone? I mean, that's what you just said. That almost works on one level Lincoln's bones I think that's classy I think it subtly suggests What it's up to Lincoln's bones

Lincoln's moans But now it doesn't have bones in it I think it should be moans and bones Cut the Lincoln Presidential moans and it. I think it should be moans and bones. Oh, moans and bones. Cut the Lincoln. Presidential moans and bones? Yeah. Because I think it's the president. The Lincoln's alluding to the president.

Happy birthday, Mr. President moans and bones. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah. All right. They also said cake. Are we going into business? I think yes.

Okay, fantastic. And let me tell you, we're going to be rich. So, the plan came unstuck, but Big Jim was not deterred. He still had dreams of stealing. It's the only way to get my friend out of prison. I will not consider any other alternative. I will not hire a good lawyer. I will continue to try and steal the president's bones.

It's so indirect as well. Even if you're able to get the body, then you've got to somehow make this exchange. Yeah. What are the odds that you can do that without them figuring out it was you? Yeah. And, boy, do they go, yeah, all right, we'll swap. Boy, that's exonerated.

No worries. Yeah, we promise once your guy's out, we'll swap. Boy, that's exonerated. No worries. Yeah, we promise once your guy's out, we won't touch him. Yeah. And they think he's just going to go back to being able to print money for you? Do you also think they care that much? About? Lincoln's bones? Oh, yeah, they care.

Okay. They care. That's why they leave him basically unprotected at his tomb. On the outskirts of town. Yeah. In the middle of nowhere. They're much better protected these days, I'll tell you that. Imagine being a Secret Service and your job is just to, like, hang out at a grave.

Does every president have Secret Service agents at their graveside at all times? Oh, I wonder. Yes. Surely not. Well, it's a secret. I can't say. Yeah, it's a secret. I can't say. Yeah, it's Secret Service. Okay.

But they have Secret Service forever. Yeah, that's true. You know, presidents- And forever goes beyond death, so- Yeah. You know, they're not allowed to drive on the road after they're president. Really? Yeah.

Where can they drive? In the paddocks? Well, apparently George W. Bush Jr. has big- Got him. Sorry, I'm nerding out over here. So I didn't hear anything you said. George W. Bush takes a, like, he goes full driving on his, like, his ranch in Texas because, you know, it's not a private road.

But whenever they're on the road, they've got the Secret Service stunt driver, you know, in case they come under attack and do evasive maneuverring and things like that. So you can't even just drive yourself to the shops. You can't do that anymore. You give that up. I thought that was just because US presidents are always really old and they probably shouldn't be driving.

I'm sorry, sir. We're taking your keys. Give him, like, little fake toy keys, like, for kids. There you go. Have a bite with them. Get in the passenger seat. Yeah, you know, you're driving from the left-hand side. Yeah. There you go. There you go. Play with him. Get in the passenger seat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're driving from the left-hand side.

Yeah, good job. I mean, the right-hand side. Yeah, it's got one of those little fake. The Simpsons. Yeah. Maggie Storr. That's nice. So, he's not deterred.

Still dreaming of the body snatch. And Big Jim starts heading out to Chicago, commuting out there to have meetings with some of his counterfeiters in the windy city they had a branch office in a bar called the hub on west madison street so yeah he's just got he's got um little branches everywhere well having a little office isn't isn't it At a pub, they had their own room in there, their headquarters. Very strange. It was a real dive bar, though, and was run by a 27-year-old named Terence Mullen.

He's one of the key players here. And the other notable guy who comes up throughout the rest of the stories was a regular named Jack Hughes. Hughesy and Mullen. Jack Hughes. They become a bit of a dynamic duo. Jacuzzi. Jacuzzi. Jacuzzi. Is that a French word for something?

Is that like accuse? I accuse. Jacuzzi. His name. Oh, my God. That's very good. If I knew French, I would have got it. I just thought you said the name again.

I said Jacuzzi. Two terms of lessons said the name again. I said Jacques Hughes. That's what two terms of lessons get you, baby. God, he's good. You are so good. Of Jacques Hughes, Robinson writes, he was an outstanding passer of phony bills, a thoroughly honest-looking man, respectably bearded and always well-dressed.

He spent his working day going from store to store, making one small purchase at each and paying for it with a crisply persuasive counterfeit bill. If his currency was ever questioned and the police were called, no case could be made because he had never had more than one bad bill in his possession. His working supply trailed along a full block behind him, usually in the form of a small boy

whose pockets were stuffed with bogus cash. After each stop, he would sidle up and slip Hughes another bill. Wow. So, they had a really good system going there. A little cash boy following. Come along, cash boy. And if the cash boy got done, 10 years in the slammer. He's like, here you are, sir.

I know the fiver for you, sir. Here's 10 bob for you, sir. It sounds like his greatest skill in being good at this was that he just looked respectable. Okay. So you guys couldn't do it? No. Oh, hang on. Well, back then I said he had a beard.

Back then beards were respectable. No, what did he say about the beard? Respectably bearded. There you go. Oh, it's a very specific kind of beard. You are not respectably bearded. I've got to get a trim. You are fucking. I'm going to go to a barber's and say. Bushranger bearded. There you go. It's a very specific kind of beard. You are not respectably bearded. I've got to get a trim. You are fucking-

I'm going to go to a barber's and say- Bushranger bearded, you are. Can you make me respectable, son? Yeah. And they'll say, I'm not a fucking magician. That's intimidating, man. Dave over here is, you know, teenage boy, pube bearded. There's nothing more respectable than a teenage pube boy.

We could be the duo. You could be trailing me behind with $5. I'm more likely to be. Dodgy notes. And then what happens? So, you go to the milk bar. I hand you $5 and you go in and buy like one pack of juicy fruit or something. Get some change.

You can't really buy that much. So, yeah, is that the point of it? To like get the change? Get the legit money? Yeah. And I guess you're trying to buy things that are of value as well, and they could sell them or whatever for real money. I don't know.

But the odds are you'd be getting paid in dodgy money as well back then. Yeah, and also just, like, you just have money now. If they're passing this. Yeah, that's right. If they're so good. Just use the money. But the only problem is you can, like, you can say, oh, you've got, like, deniability. Yeah.

You go, I was given this, I didn't know. But if you've got only dodgy notes and they find it, then you're, you get done. Oh, that dodgy kid out there gave it to me. That's why he's got the cash boy. Arrest the cash boy. Arrest that cash boy, which is the term I've only just come up with. I've never met that cash boy before in my life. So he was really good at it, but apparently sometime in September 1874

in Washington Heights, Illinois, something went wrong and Hughes was arrested by Secret Service agents and indicted for passing five counterfeit bills. So, his system fell apart a bit. Oh, no. And he went to the clink. But, yeah, it's funny to think about the Secret Service back then. That was what they were doing,

just trying to catch, like, these petty criminals, basically. So, anyway, as we meet him now at the hub, he's out on bail. This is, you know, a year and a half later, something like that. And this is where Big Jim starts to pull together his second crew of body snatchers into the second half of 1876. Big Jim, Mullen the bartender, and Hughes the counterfeit passer, they're the main three, and they regularly met at the hub to develop a plan.

And according to Robertson, this is how the plan went down, or how it was planned to go down. This was the plan. This was the plan. This was the plan. Oh, my God. You are eloquent. I cut out the middle plan there. Quote, they would meet in Springfield, steal Lincoln's body.

Easy. Bang, bang. Yep. No explanation on how they do that bit, but that's cool. Don't worry about it. Bada bing, bada bang. Whatever. Then they'd load it onto a wagon and using a relay of horses speed it some 200 miles to the sand dunes bordering the

southern tip of lake michigan just southeast of chicago there they would bury the body carefully triangulating the site against permanent landmarks so they could find it again in the ever-shifting sands and then wait for the government to meet their demands. How good is this plan? They're putting it in sand dunes and they're just going, okay, so, like, there's a tree four steps away from that tree. Done. They're going, all right, there's a bit of sand here, so next to the sand. Yeah.

And next to that other bit of sand. So, just remember, between these two bits of sand. Yeah, the sand in the middle of these two bits of sand. Not two bits, they're triangulating. I think that's three bits of sand. That's three bits of sand. It's the third bit of sand. So, just remember between these two bits of sand. Yeah, the sand in the middle of these two bits of sand. Not two bits, they're triangulating. I think that's three bits of sand. That's three bits of sand. It's the third bit of sand. I don't think-

I hope they're not counting sand as a permanent landmark. But these guys were bozos, I've got to say. So, I wouldn't put it past them. Also, the permanently shifting sands, that sounds like a thing that wouldn't be a good place to bury something. Yep. If the sands are shifting off the top. How deep do you have to go?

Yeah. Probably just to the Earth's core. Yeah. It's a few hundred kilometres. Yeah. Here's another ingenious part of the plan. Inside the tomb, they would leave behind a piece of paper torn from the front of the Catholic Union and Times, which was

published in England. This newspaper was so rare in Chicago that the police would surely file it away as a clue. The rest of the front page would be hidden at the hub. It would be used to identify Big Jim and company as the genuine kidnappers when the time came to announce their demands. $200,000 in cash and the release of Ben Boyd. That's pretty cool.

That's pretty clever. It's funny. It's like going, you're hoping that the cops go, oh, we'll keep this as a... Yeah. When I read it at first, I thought they were framing up someone. Yeah. Must have been someone from England.

Framing themselves. But, yeah, they were- I was going to put, like, something in his pocket. Like, they say, prove you're the kidnapper. All right, check his pocket. There's a couple of dice in there. But they've got the body, right? Oh, yeah.

Who are they- Wait, hang on. Oh, wait. Wait, how do the police- Yeah, hang on. No, because I thought the police were going to find the body and then they were going to prove that it was... But if they find the body, they don't need to pay them anything.

No, they're not finding the body. They're finding the paper they left behind in the tomb. So they left a bit of newspaper behind in the tomb. Oh, I thought it was inside the coffin. Oh, no, sorry. Same, same, same. But in my head, and I guess your head too, Jess, when the police find the body, then they'll know we stole it

and to thank us, they'll give us our 200. And if they give us the money and release Ben, then we'll give them back the body they've just found. But you couldn't just put anything in the tomb, like I'm saying, like you just put like a red basket, a red ball, and then say, yeah, it's us, why did we leave? We left a red ball. Yeah, exactly.

So, yeah, I don't know. What did it smell like in there? I'm glad you qualified that I get anxious I get anxious when I'm stealing President's bodies So, apparently Big Jim and Hughes Jacques Hughes Were happy with Boyd's release and the cash

They're like, that's all we need But Marlon apparently got obsessed with the idea That body snatching The body snatching would also win the criminals, quote, the respect of the American people. Wow. Okay. Like, we can- We got a good shot at the cash.

And maybe even releasing our friend from jail. Respect is a little bit harder to- We're going to hold the body until you respect us. No, I want you to- I want to genuinely feel it. You're putting it on. Don't just say you respect me. Show me. Show me.

Go on. Go on. Do a little dance. Yes, a respectful dance. That's ridiculous. One problem they faced was that none of them had any experience in the general art of stealing bodies. But as luck would have it, a new regular at the bar named

Lewis Swaggles did. Swaggles. He came in and he's like, you're talking about stealing a body. And because at the time, grave robbery was pretty common. So he's like, yeah, I've got a heap of experience grave robbing. You need a grave robber. Come to Swiggles. And again, last time it all went wrong because they told an outsider about the plan who then

went and told the cops. Again, some guy walks into the bar, they're like, hey, we're planning on stealing Abraham Lincoln's body. Can you help? I think he came in, he was coming in as a bit of a regular for a while before. They started to warm to him and then. He's absolutely a grass, this guy. Undercover.

I think that he might be a narc. What? Swaggles? That is not a real name. Swaggles. A narc. I've heard it all. You freaking narc, Swaggles.

Hughes and Mullen, they like the cut of his jib, in part because of his exploits as a grave robber. And they're like, we don't understand that. So it'd be good to have someone who knew what they were doing. Which feels like maybe one of the first things. Yeah. If Big Jim's putting together a team of grave robbers. Maybe get a grave robber.

I'd reckon get a grave robber. He's got a crack team. I've got a guy. I've got a bartender. He can pour drinks. So the after party's sorted. It's got a guy who can pass fake notes. Yeah.

Huh? Huh? Oh, we've got Cash Boy. Yeah. We've got Cash Boy. That could come in handy. And I'm Big Jim. I'm not going to go there in person, but I wish you all the best.

So, yeah, they like Swaggles because obviously he filled a need for them. But also they're impressed by his connections to better known crooks of the day. He would drop names into the conversation like, oh, if you're in with these guys, you must be pretty good. By November, Swaggles was such a key member of the crew that they were now meeting at his house. Unfortunately for Big Jim and the boys, Swaggles wasn't who he seemed. You're kidding me.

A month earlier, the Secret Service had received a tip-off about the plot, and Chicago Bureau Chief Patrick D. Tyrrell then recruited Swaggles to infiltrate the gang. Real name. And he swiftly did that. Swaggles is his real name. Swaggles is his real name, I believe. And were they meeting at his real house? Yeah.

And so he really was a grave robber? No, no. Oh. So they knew that they needed- Yeah. They're going to rob a grave. Go in. Order a whiskey and then loudly say,

yep, just knocking off after a hard day of stealing bodies. I'm an expert. Ooh. I know all the crooks. Let me tell you, robbing graves is not an easy job. Well, it is for me. I'm very, very good at it. But boy, oh, boy, for people who don't know what they're doing,

it is pretty tough. But I've got a big gap in my schedule coming up. It's good to have a bit of downtime, but I guess if there was some work to come up, I wouldn't say no. I'm supposed to do a big job, a big presidential job. Anyway, another whiskey. I wouldn't say no. I was supposed to do a big job, a big presidential job. Anyway. Anyway. Another whiskey.

Oh, what are you guys up to? What? How much going on? Sorry, were you guys eavesdropping on me just then? How rude. That's a bit rude. Anyway, Swaggle's the name. Grave Robin's the game.

Yeah, real name. Real name. You want to come round for a cuppa at my place? Yeah. Gardner-Robinson, contemporary accounts vary wildly, but Swaggles apparently had been a seaman, then probably... Sorry. We all have.

Yeah, it's like, all right. All right, mate, we've all been a seaman. You're definitely padding out your resume if you're writing that down You're going back a bit far Before that, I was a glint in my father's eye Yeah, the list goes on I've also done a bit of book work People putting their primary school captain on their resume

You're a grown adult Oh, yeah Not talking about anyone in particular Note to self, I have to remove mine as well So, yeah, Not talking about anyone in particular. Note to self, have to remove mine as well. So, yeah, it was a seaman, then probably a petty crook, but by 1876 he was well launched

on a career as a professional informer or roper for the Secret Service. Wow. He was professionally undercover. Yeah. Wow. Just full time, so they'd pay him by the job. Yeah. Roper. Roper. So, they'd pay him by the job. Yeah. Roper.

Roper's fun. Roper Seaman. He was, I guess, in some ways. Robertson goes on. Swaggle started hanging out at the hub and he would report to the Secret Service. So, the things we know about this story is because he's like on the phone every day or going in and telling them what's happened. And he later said, I got myself up in their minds, not by praising myself, but my friends, Frenchie the burglar, Bill Ray and others. I had a letter from Frenchie who was in Michigan City Penitentiary.

They thought I was a first class man or I would not be known to such men. So, I was convinced by a letter. He's like, here's a letter of recommendation from my friend Frenchy the burglar. It's so funny. Yeah. So, Swaggles would report daily to Tyrrell and then Tyrrell passed the information on to the chief at the Secret Service. Tyrell passed the information on to the chief at the Secret Service. Based on Swaggle's intel, on the 5th of November,

Tyrell told his boss that the gang feels, quote, confident of success, saying that if they do get caught, it is only one year in jail, but if they succeed, Ben will be liberated. And this is true. I think grave robbing at the time was just a one-year penalty, which is so funny when one of them's done five years for dodgy notes. Yeah.

But stealing a president. Fine. You get one year. I guess, yeah. Maybe if it's like stealing a regular body, a normie body. Yeah, okay. A president, it should be like 18 months. 18 months.

Yeah, yeah. You gotta what, a 50% fee on top. Yeah. Presidential loading. President tax. Yeah. Loading made more sense. Robertson continues, the next day Tyrrell reported to Washington that

Swaggles had told them that the attempt to steal the body would be made the following night, November 7, election day. So, again, they're doing it on a day that they know is going to be busy with celebrations and whatnot, which they called, the criminals, Mullen and Jacuzzi, they called a damned elegant time to do it, according to the thieves. They're Irish Americans. I don't know why I'm doing an English accent, but anyway, just feels right. Damned elegant.

Okay. According to Thomas R. Turner, writing for the Abraham Lincoln Association, they liked Election Day as, quote, liquor would be flowing freely. There would be crowds of farmers with wagons and one more wagon with a package on the back would not attract undue attention. It's just another wagon with a package on the back.

Just another you driving off a cliff. Yeah. The plan's gone awry. There's a top hat sticking out the top, though. The plan's gone awry. There's a top hat sticking out the top, though. Normally, wagons don't have a top hat on the back. That is weird. That is weird, but it's the election day.

Yeah. Crazy things will happen on election day. Yeah. Wagons like to dress up. I have respect. The horses are also wearing top hats. Everybody looks quite dapper. Well, they look damn elegant, to be honest. Terrell then met with Robert Lincoln.

Yes, a relation to the president. It's his son and Elmer Washburn. And Washburn was previously the chief of the Secret Service. The current president had sacked him the week before because he thought he wasn't to be trusted. Wow. Right, because all he's he wasn't to be trusted. Wow. Right, because all he's doing is protecting the old president's body. What about my body? Yeah.

I'm still here. Come on. I'm right here. So, they chatted and decided that Tyrrell probably needed a bit of help in foiling the plot. So, extra men were recruited for the cause. According to Robertson, Tyrrell and Washburn called on Alan Pinkerton, head of the famed Pinkerton National Detective Agency. Have you heard of this?

Yeah. I hadn't, but apparently they're quite a famous detective agency and they hired two of their operatives, John C. McGinn and George Hay, and during the afternoon they enlisted two more helpers, John MacDonald, a detective from the Illinois Humane Society, and John English, who had been Washburn's private secretary when he headed the Secret Service. Wow, Johnny English.

He's put together his own ragtag band. Yeah. It feels like now you'd just be like, all right, we'll have some of the officers from our department. But there he had to like, he just put his own band together. Of the Pinkertons, Kyle Haggerty, one of the topic suggestors, he said, these guys were involved in saving President Lincoln and providing Lincoln with bodyguards.

So this is while he was still alive. They also warred with Jesse James and guarded the coffin of Marilyn Monroe. At one point, they were larger than the US Army. They were also spies and they hired the first female detective. Oh, and one last thing, their founder became a detective by accident. Anyway, that sounds like a great topic. What?

I was almost going to do a side report in the middle there. And then I'm like, that sounds like enough for a full report. Yeah. So, someone remind me of that. Great instinct there. Maybe you, Kyle Haggerty. I'm just saying, I was looking at the middle distance for a second there, Kyle. But if my gaze met yours.

Then so be it. Then so be it. If my gaze met yours. Anyway, at 9pm on the 6th of Novembermber two separate groups boarded the train from chicago windy city to springfield one was agent tyrell with his lawmen and in another carriage sat hughes mullen swaggles and a new recruit named billy brown who was going to drive the getaway wagon i love the getaway wagon um but it's getaway wagon. It's fun. But it's so funny that, like, they're going, we're going to do these great crimes, it's going to be so good.

And the guys are just, like, following them literally on the same train. Yeah. We're going to meet them there to stop them doing it. It's easy. Which they obviously could have done at any point, but I think they wanted to catch them in the act. It makes, you know, it's hard to deny when you're caught. Yeah, it makes charging them easier. Yeah, yeah. Jeez, you helped me it's hard to deny when you're caught. Yeah, makes charging him easier.

Yeah, yeah. Jeez, you help me put sentences into few words. I help you get through the fucking day. Yeah, that's what I was- Okay, you'd be an absolute mess without me. I mean, I am still. I call him at 7am. I say, okay, Matt, get out of bed.

One foot at a time, mate. Okay, off to the shower, you know. Like, he just can't do anything. I say to Jess, how do I put my pants on again? And you say, just like everyone else does, one leg at a time. Yeah. He still fucks it up. Yeah.

I jump in. Two legs in a one hole. He's a mess. It's an nightmare. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices.

We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. So, yeah, they're on the same train, separate carriages. That's good. Privacy. And their getaway driver, Billy Brown, he was recruited by Swaggles.

Oh. And so the supposed criminal getaway driver, Billy Brown, was actually Swaggles' non-criminal friend, Bill Neely. Bill Neely. Bill Neely. Billy Neely. Billy Neely. That's a beautiful name.

That is really nice. That is really nice. Billy Neely. Billy Neely. I love it. I love it too. I love it more. Amazing.

It's actually blown my mind. Yeah, Dave. We lost Dave for a bit. Yeah. He was looking into the middle distance and then his gaze met mine by coincidence. Willy nilly. Billy nilly. Wow. That's good stuff. According to Robertson, the train arrived at Springfield at 6am on Election Day and Tyrrell and his aides checked into the St Nicholas Hotel. At 8.30, Swaggle showed up to inform Tyrell that Mullen and Hughes, that's Jacques Hughes, were registered at the nearby cafe, cafe, that's not right, at the nearby St. Charles Hotel and had left a call for 10.30am.

I'm hungry. They've registered for a croissant and a small coffee. That's what they used to call ordering. That was nowhere near the word cafe there. Sint. Sint. Cafe. Oh.

While the plotters slept, the detectives checked out the monument, accompanied by the president of the Lincoln Monument Association and the monument custodian, a man named J.C. Power, which is a fantastic name. Jesus Christ Power. It does feel like the name of one of those real American-style preachers. Yeah, J.C. Power. J.C. Power, come see J.C. Power.

In mid-afternoon, Swaggles and Jack Hughes also inspected the tomb and worked out last-minute details of the upcoming night's work. Mullen had worried that it might be impossible to break into the heavy sarcophagus, but Hughes came away bubbling with optimism, saying, Well, I could kick it open. I could fall against it and open it. He's just like, this thing's...

It's paper mache in there. It's flimsy. How does he know? He's had a look at it and sort of done a bit of... Yeah, I think so. Just done a few taps. Yeah, that's plywood. That's nothing. Yep, yep, yep. Such a bit of... Yeah, I think so. Just a few taps. Yeah, that's plywood. Yeah.

That's nothing. Yep, yep, yep. Such a bit of cloth. Yeah, what have you got here? What's that? Yeah, he's under... What's that, some sort of timber? He's under a sheet.

Easy. He's in a Ziploc bag. Oh, that's too easy. Yeah, but Mullen, like, they came out of it with the total opposite feeling. So, Jacques Hughes is the guy going, yeah, I'm into it. This is easy, too good. Mullen, the guy going, yeah, I'm into it. This is easy. Too good. Marlon the guy is like, I'm mainly in this to win America's respect.

He's like the opposite. He's going. It's too hard. Well, this isn't going to work. We're going to need more tools. And he's like, we need an axe. So, he went and stole an axe. Okay. Just go Bunnings.

Well, where do you think he stole the axe from? Oh, you wanted to buy an axe. Yeah. What, with some sort of fake currency? Yeah. Where's the cash, boy? It'll cost you 18 cents. Well, I guess that's the problem.

Boyd's gone away, so their supply of notes is probably running out, if it hasn't already. And, yeah, like I said, we know all these intimate details because Swaggle's, they're saying that Swaggle's hearing it, then he's going to report it. And so they get, like, these- You'd never hear these things from a heist like this. Yeah. But we're hearing, like, direct quotes.

Well, I could kick it open. We could fall against it and it would open, which is great. Imagine we didn't have that. Maybe Jacques Hughes just was really into martial arts, had a very powerful kick. Yes. And a very powerful fall. I could kick something open.

Yeah. A can of Pringles. Well, you said to me, well, Dave was in the John or something, you came and you said, what would you do if I'd kick this door down? Yeah. So it's something you think about often. Constantly. You're always thinking about kicking things down. Yeah. So it's something you think about often. Constantly. You're always thinking about kicking things down.

Yeah. The patriarchy mostly. I was thinking the same. It's so good. You are. And you do. Yeah. Every day.

Every day. It's just my existence. Which is so exhausting when I have to put it back up again. Every day. Every day. I have to reassemble the patriarchy because Jess has kicked it down again. As a feminist, I just think fair's fair.

Yeah. We don't want to take the patriarchy down in that way. Every day. So, Robertson's still talking here and I appreciate it. This article or this story written by Robertson is older than you two. She wrote it in 1982. Wow. Not older than me.

I was born in the Middle Ages or whenever it was. You're as old as the wind. I'm as old as Chicago, the Windy City. About 4.45 p.m., Swaggles managed once again to slip away to bring Tyrrell up to date on the counterfeiters' activities. At 6 o'clock, Swaggles left to meet his fellow grave robbers and to assure them that he'd just seen Billy Brown, the very real getaway driver he organised.

And he said, yep, all's going to plan. Billy's good to go. Billy's good to go. He'll be there in your spot. He's filled up the horses. The horses are full of unleaded. He's cleaned the windscreen wipers on the horses. He's like, he's starting to get, he's like, oh, bring it down.

His brain's going, bring it down, mate. Bring it down. Chill out. Chill out. You're doing well. Just play cool. Play cool. But in truth, Billy Brown, okay, Billy Nilly,

never even made it to Springfield. After being introduced to the gang on the train, he slipped off just outside of Chicago. He's like, yeah, I'm real. We'll see you there. I'm going to go have a nap, I guess, in the other carriage. And he just jumped off. And I don't understand how they didn't notice that.

Why introduce him at all then? Just to prove that he's real. Okay. Sure. I guess you want to meet somebody that you're going to work with on a big heist. Yeah, yeah. That's fair enough.

You never need to see him again, but you want to meet him once. Yeah, it feels like you'd just get, you'd take him with you for the journey. Yeah. Maybe he'd charge by the hour. Yeah, in other places. Nearly, nearly. It was in hot demand.

Soon after nightfall, Tyrell and the other lawmen arrived at the memorial. One of the men, John English, fantastic name. Johnny English. Do you think Johnny English, the character, was based on him? Yes. Absolutely. So, Johnny English had the job of notifying Tyrell as soon as he heard the robbers making

noise in the burial chamber. So, they positioned him. Apparently, when they got there, the custodian of the tomb took them all in like an elephant file, or whatever you call it, holding hands through the darkness of the tomb till he took them to a spot where like, all right, we can put a light on in here and they won't be able to see us from outside. And then they positioned John English just behind this wall so he could hear. He had to sit there quietly. And John English, just behind this wall, so he could hear, he had to sit there quietly. And then the rest of the lawmen went to a spot a bit further away from the action, took off their shoes and laid in wait.

I think they took off their shoes. Out of respect. Out of respect. Yeah, yeah. Was Lincoln wearing shoes? Yeah. Didn't think so. His face was a top hat, not a bottom shoe.

No. Barefoot. If you look down, he's wearing a six-foot shoe. He's actually not a very tall man at all. Yeah, it's all symmetrical. He's all shoe. The man's all shoe. He's a hat sandwich, that man.

Sorry, guys. If they took their shoes off, they'd be quiet when they charged in. Much like when you get home at 4am. Yeah, yeah. And you're going to charge into bed. Don't worry, I'll sneak in. They'll never hear me. Yeah.

Got no shoes on, but I have punched a hole in the wall and kicked to the door in. Shh, I'm sneaking in. So, they were waiting on two signals One from English To say that they were in the tomb They were making noise As soon as he heard any noise in there He was like

What was he hearing? Yeah Yeah, yeah If you hear any ghosts Anything cool like that Let us know Let us know Flash your light, that'll be sick

We're mainly here to arrest them But we've also got a team from Ghost Snatchers. It's a Foxtel show, and they're going to come in and try and see what we can get. If there's any orbs of light or anything like that. Yeah. So, yes. So, that was one signal.

The other signal they were waiting for was Swaggles was going to go out and apparently light up a cigar, and that would signal to them that they were in and they're actually opening the coffin itself, I think. So, they're about to break in and say, sorry, guys, I just got to go out the front with a celebratory cigar. I'll leave you to it. This is just an old tradition.

As you know, I like coffin snatch all the time. You do it all the time. This is just a thing I do for luck. Yeah. Have a cigar midway through. I was like, you want me to do this? If I don't do this, who knows what will happen? Yeah.

Obviously, as the most experienced coffin snatcher here, I don't want to get on the tools. I'm more of an overseer. Yeah, exactly. My days of being on the tools are over. Yeah. I'm more of a manager now. That's right.

I'm a consultant. Yeah. So, yeah, basically just to make the conviction easier, they wanted to catch him right in the middle of the act. So, over two hours of waiting, sitting there quietly. Without shoes on. Without shoes. They wait and they wait.

And then around 9pm, Jacques Hughes, Mullen and Sweggles arrived ready to snatch a president. Which one? Oh, specifically Lincoln. Okay. But they would have taken whatever they could get. Yeah. I know this is the Lincoln Memorial or whatever. If Thomas Jefferson walked past, they would have grabbed him.

We'll take him. We'll take whoever the current one is, whatever. Cordner Robertson, Hughes and Mullen. That's Jacques Hughes. And Mullen began to- And I like to- It's not, but I like to think Chris Mullen, the flat-topped three-point specialist from the Golden State Warriors in the 90s.

That's who I'm picturing. Sure. I don't think he looked like that. But that's who's in your head. In my head, he's that. Jacques Hughes is a concept. Okay. In my head.

He's kind of just a blob. Yeah. But they're actually, you know, just olden days looking bearded men. So, Hughes and Mullen, they start cutting through the padlock on the door to the burial chamber. Luckily, they'd brought a professional burglar's saw, which is obviously something you can get at Bunnings. But Mullen, who had no experience with it, broke it immediately. Good. So, instead, he had to slowly wear away the lock with a small file.

Luckily, he had a nail file on him. Take forever. I think he had to slowly wear it away with his teeth. Yeah. Sorry, Matt. So, we just heard one of the thousand noises. Sorry, we've got to number that. What was that one?

Which one was it? It was- Sometimes I do them without thinking. With a nail file. Yeah, a small nail file on a presidential tomb's lock. Yeah, that's 333. Wow. Can we actually hear?

What was the big professional saw that broke? What did that sound like? Such a shame because it happened way more quicker. Way more quicker. Jess, can you put that into English? Johnny English. Quicker english quicker happened quicker three words you turn three into one yeah that's why my reports go for an hour yeah yeah yours go for six so the big professor and the other reason is you two make me dance like a monkey and when you try to do that to me i say no

moving on you say we don't have time for that and that's the lesson yeah yeah the other professional one very quickly it happens goes so it's just one one and done wow that's a powerful saw. That's quite a difference, yeah. Powerful saw, yeah. But you'd be furious, wouldn't you, if that happened? Yeah. Especially if you were Jacques Hughes standing next to me going, how the hell you broke a saw? Yeah. It's a professional grade burglar saw.

How'd you break it so easy? Don't worry, I've got a Swiss Army knife. There's a small little file on it. Just give us about three weeks, I'll get through this thing. It should be fine. Fine. And in the meantime, Johnny English is there with his ear against the wall, and he's listening to it all, and apparently he reported back to the others

saying they're in there. I can hear the sounds of filing and also muffled but heartfelt cursing. Frick. Just. Come on. Frick. Stop. Shit. Brash. Get down. That's such a beautifully described You're like you know exactly Muffled but heartfelt cursing is so good

If you hear your dad making that noise in the shed You do not approach Do it again. You sound like Gollum. I haven't seen that, but. So, they've got one of the signals. They got the one from Johnny English, but they haven't got the one from Swaggles. It's the longest cigar of his life.

He's like, well, the problem is, yeah, that's the main one they're waiting for, because that means they've broken in the sarcophagus, and that was when they were going to arrest him. But unfortunately, once he got in and he was working with them, the other two were like, we need you to hold the lantern he's like oh okay oh i don't know what the plan was otherwise they would come to it in the dark you just be like guys i'm desperate for a piss oh yeah hang on one sec i'm just gonna pop outside and they'll be like just piss here piss on the president president um and i can't i get stage fright yeah front of presidents. So I've got to go outside to piss.

It won't be long. That's what I'd do. Man, you could have, what you do for me, you could have done for Swiggles. Yeah. You could have made life a lot easier for him. I make life easier for so many people. Yeah, Swiggles has got to stand up for himself. Yeah.

Hold this. Oh, okay. Come on, Swiggles. So he felt like he was stuck there holding the lantern. Also a lantern, just leaning against the wall. Yeah. Anyway, Robinson says, this is how she describes

their process of getting into the sarcophagus. They lifted off the ornamental marble cover and gingerly leaned it against the crypt in the back wall. But the inner lid wouldn't budge. Mullen snatched up a sledgehammer and was about to swing it when Swaggles grabbed his arm and said,

man, the custodian might be around. We can't just start smacking through. So he luckily brought it down. Because Swaggles was also like, I don't want you to actually break the president's coffin. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing breaking the president's coffin? Whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing? Breaking the president's coffin? Yeah.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That might be loud. Yeah. Do it in a quiet way. Get the fire loud again. Yeah, that's why. That's my problem.

Yeah. The noise. Noise. Then they discovered that the inner lid was secured by several copper dowels, which they quickly removed. Then they balanced it crosswise across the foot of the sarcophagus, removed the piece at its head, and slid Lincoln's cedar-covered lead coffin partway out.

Now it was time for Swiggles to bring up the wagon that Mullen and Hughes still believed was waiting at the foot of the monument hill, which obviously it wasn't. So he's like, I better go make, I got to go do the signal to the bad guys, not the good guys. Obviously, why would I be doing a got to go do the signal to the bad guys, not the good guys. Yeah. Obviously, why would I be doing a signal to- And I don't even think of-

Bad and good. Like, I just think- The cops are the bad guys. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm going to do the signal to the good guys. Us. Us. Bill-

Billy- Billy Brown. Billy Brown. Got to bring the thing up. Okay, bye. Okay, bye. Also, I'm going to have a little puff on this cigar on the way down. So, he's about to leave and Marlon said, wait, before you go.

I love you. I love you. I know you're a cop, but I love you. Kisses him on the cheek. I can't believe you did this to me, but I love you. He said, when you get back, give the whistle. Otherwise, you're liable to get hurt We might fire at you thinking it was somebody else

We're not going to let anyone come monkeying around here Oh wow So if they storm in All hell will break loose Yeah Shit Shit Yes

What whistle? Imagine if you couldn't whistle. It's got to be a whisper whistle. Yeah. Because if you can't just loudly whistle. And you were doing it there, but Dave Ridley talked over you. What's a whisper whistle? A lot of inhale.

Yeah, it's mainly in. It's like in guitar, it's like up picking. Yeah. It's the same for whistling. In sucking. As opposed like up picking. Yeah. It's the same for whistling. In sucking. As opposed to out sucking. Yeah. Whistling is all about suck and blow.

I really hate to have to dumb it down for you guys, but. Swiggles was already meant to have given the signal to Tyrell, but he got stuck unexpectedly. Couldn't get out to light a cigar, but now he had his chance. So, he's like, oh, down to the wagon. And then once he got into darkness, he doubled back to signal to Tyrell that it was go time. And did he signal with a cigar? I would say reports differ.

Oh, okay. But he got the signal. One of them, it sounds like he went and he just literally went up to Oh, okay, okay. But he got the signal. One of them, it sounds like he went and he just literally went up to him and said, yeah, it's now. Go, go, go. And they're like, we're waiting for the signal. We're waiting for the signal. Where's the cigar? Treat yourself.

You've done so good. So finally having received the signal, Tyrell and the other shoeless men drew their guns and ran for the tomb. Unfortunately, though, one of the men, depending on who you read, according to Robertson, it was Detective McGinn. According to Turner, it was George Hay, two of the Pinkerton detectives. Either way, one of the men had an old-fashioned gun that went off accidentally, breaking the nighttime silence. And also their surprise was gone because there's a gun going off. There's a gun going off. Back to Robertson.

Wait, it's okay. It might just be a horse backfiring. Just wait. Could be fireworks. That could be Billy Brown's horse backfiring. It's okay. Wait, is Billy Brown's horse rocket powered? Maybe he's just lit the Nass or the Noss.

Hit the Noss on the horse. The horse Noss. Horse Noss. That was just putting coke up the horse's nostril. Have a go at that. Have a go at that. And then to slow the horse down, you injected heroin. Have a go at that. I have a go at that. And then to slow the horse down, you injected heroin.

That's how it got the name horse. Back to Robertson. Afraid of the noise, afraid the noise had alerted the robbers, Tyrrell burst into the pitch dark burial chamber alone and revolver in hand called for the thieves to surrender. He couldn't see, but he's like, hey, heads up, you're busted. So he's the one that's been waiting this whole time. Yes, he's the leader of the- Wow.

He's like, I've heard a gun go off, fuck it. Everyone on the ground. Yes. There's no answer. He can't see anything. He can't see anything. So he strikes a match. He can see the sarcophagus is still there, broken, but still there.

But he was dismayed to find that, quote, no fiend was there. It was empty. He dashed back to Memorial Hall and told the custodian, J.C. Power, to bring lanterns. Pausing only to put on his shoes, he ran to the southwest stairs of the terrace, thinking that the thieves might have gone up there to await the wagon. The moon was about to rise, and seeing the outlines of two men on the northwest corner of the terrace, some 70 feet away, he opened fire. So, he sees them 70 feet away and- Starts shooting.

Starts shooting at them. When you say no fiend was there, as in the criminals aren't there, but was the body still intact? Body was still there. Okay. They hadn't got all the way in through the sarcophagus. It was partially broken. Made a break for it, kind of thing.

Yep. They heard the gunshot. And they took off. But he sees them and he starts, or he sees their silhouette starts firing at him. The targets fire back as they continue to dash. Tyrell ran to the southeast corner where he and the two men exchanged shots. Then all three ran back to their original corners. Tyrell shouted down to Washburn,

Chief, we have the devils up here, and called for his men to come up as backup. From across the dark terrace, someone called, Tyrell, is that you? Tyrell ignored it, for he knew that one of the crooks, Jacques Hughes, knew his voice. The same man called again, Tyrell, for God's sake, answer, is that you shooting us?

This time, Tyrell recognised the voice as Detective McGinn's. Three of the lawmen had been shooting at each other. Oh, no. Yep. Okay. No one really comes out looking good. You think you'd say, Tyrell, is that you? It's McGinn's.

Yeah, yeah. It's me. Yeah. McGinn's. Certainly not the criminal. Yeah, good try you? It's McGins. Yeah, yeah. It's me. Yeah. McGins. Certainly not the criminal. Yeah, good try. They all know my name. No, seriously, is it you?

Oh, fuck. Yeah, it's pretty embarrassing. In the meantime, Hughes and Mullen had already made their escape. Wow. Connor Robertson, they had gone to wait for the wagon under a small oak tree, 100 feet away. This is even before that gunshot rang out. They're like, we're going to, I guess, wait for the wagon.

Then the four of them go up and carry the coffin down. When the detectives rounded the corner, so they start charging in, the gunshot goes off. Hughes and Mullen had already started started walking forward thinking that the two men were swaggles and billy brown but then they got within 30 feet and realized they were not looking at two men but a small crowd then they overheard enough to convince them that the figures were lawmen then they turned and fled they had already cleared the cemetery grounds when the sound of shots reached them and that shoot And that shootout was... So, it was a bad night for Tyrrell.

Not only had the thieves escaped, but only great good fortune had kept his men from killing one another. That would have been the only thing. Like, it's pretty shambolic as it was. Yeah. And embarrassing, but it would have been a disaster if he'd gone up and his crew killed each other. Yeah. You know, imagine if they all... Yeah.

Yeah. gone up and his crew killed each other. Yeah. Imagine if they all, yeah. Yeah. He later said, it was one of the most unfortunate nights I've ever experienced, yet God protected us in doing right. JC Power, the monument's custodian,

later wrote that in his view it had all turned out for the best, the fact that they'd already fled. He said, if Tyrell had found them in the burial chamber, entering the door as he did, they could and would have seen him and shot him before he could have learned which of the dark corners they were in. Yeah. So, he couldn't see anything.

Yeah. So, if he did actually disturb them, he probably would have been taken out. Yeah, immediately. Still, Tyrell had to put up with some very painful abuse in the nation's newspapers. Some suggested that the whole fiasco had been a phony drama enacted to get Washburn enough publicity

to secure him the job of Chicago police chief. So the conspiracy theories came out straight away. Others seem to think that Detective McGinn or Hay, depending on who you read, had set off the pistol on purpose to warn the thieves, like the Pinkerton detectives. Some were saying- It was an accidental shot.

Yeah, yeah. According to Turner, these sensational events did not gain immediate national attention as they would today. This was partially because no winner had been decided in the presidential contest. And I still don't know who won this because I haven't heard of either of these guys. Rutherford Hayes and Samuel Tilden any of those ring a bell? yeah Rutherford B Hayes I think

oh B Hayes Rutherford B Hayes oh B Hayes 19th US President Rutherford B Hayes saucy 19th B Hayes 87 to 81

yeah there you go Jeez you've got a good memory of American presidents I only know the big ones Bush Bush Clinton Lincoln B Johnson

There any others? Obama Obama Trump Trump The current guy. Actually, I've got a few. Yeah, look at you go.

And Andrew Jackson. That's basically all of them. Samuel L. Jackson. Yep. So, yeah, the news of the close election race meant that all other news was sort of forgotten about for a little while. Some accounts accused Washburn of looking for a more important job for himself. That was what they're saying, trying to, he set it up just to look good. And if that was the case, it

backfired. How embarrassing. Others thought that the Democrats or Republicans had concocted the tale to help their candidate achieve victory? Like either of them? Yeah. Oh, this is clear. Sort of dodginess from the Republicans or Democrats who were trying to get... What's the tactic there?

If it's not clear which party it is. Yeah, I don't really understand. I don't think it has worked. There was also some criticism of the Secret Service for knowing about the plot and allowing Hughes and Mullen to escape the cemetery, which, yeah, I mean, that feels like that is pretty embarrassing. Yeah. But, you know, things went wrong.

That happens. They were figuring it out as they went. What, general public? You've never made mistakes? Yeah. You've never had a whoopsie? Oh, come on. Come on.

Come on. Guys guys let's get together it's gotten it's really warm in here it is warm in here this is like the old school i know and you're wearing a sweater around your shoulders like a you're from a fraternity yeah yeah or like you know i'm a private school boy. I've got boat shoes on too. Oh, my God. Yeah. And daddy's credit card. Yeah, I'm struggling to keep my eyes open.

Oh, we're getting close to the end here. Don't worry about that. I don't want to say it like that. So... I don't know either, but I loved it. So, yeah, it felt pretty embarrassing. Anyway, back to Robinson. Hughes and Mullen arrived at dawn at a farmhouse. So, yeah, it felt pretty embarrassing. Anyway, back to Robinson. Hughes and Mullen arrived at dawn at a farmhouse.

So, they've fled. They've got away. They're about seven miles northeast of Springfield. They asked anxiously to the farmer if any strange men had been noticed in the neighborhood, and the farmer said that he hadn't seen anyone. The pair bought breakfast from the farmer, then went to the farm of Hughes' father near Loda in Illinois, where Hughes stayed stayed while Mullen returned to his familiar spot behind the bar at the hub.

He just went straight back to work, thinking, I guess. No one will think to look for me here. Yeah. Swaggles went back to the bar as well, telling Mullen that he also just narrowly escaped the law. Oh, that's a bit brave. Isn't that brazen, right? Yeah.

A week or so later, and he just went back to being a regular at the pub. So Marlon would have slowly been like, I guess no harm, no foul. A week or so later, on November the 17th, Jacques Hughes came back to the bar also. So the gang's back together, including Swaggles, who they don't realise still is an informant. An informer. Sweggles continued to keep Tyrrell abreast of the situation, and a warrant was obtained by the Chicago police officer, Dennis Sims. According to Robertson, Sims, along with Tyrrell, McGinn and Washburn, at last performed the satisfying task of arresting and handcuffing Hughes and Mullen and carting them off to Chicago's Central Police Station. The next day they were taken to

Springfield where they were identified by several witnesses. Two days after that, on November 20, 1876, Hughes and Mullen were indicted. At that time, there was no law in Illinois to cover grave robbing, so the charge was that they, quote, did unlawfully and feloniously attempt to steal, take and carry away certain personal goods and property to wit one casket, otherwise called a coffin, the personal goods and property of the National Lincoln Monument Association

against the peace and dignity of the people of the state of Illinois. The value of the coffin was $75. So, they were, you know. Was that a 75-year sentence? So, that's what Robertson said happened. But according to Turner, most accounts state that authorities discovered to their surprise that there was no law against grave robbing in Illinois.

Therefore, they had to rely on conspiracy and theft charges. This was not true, and there was an Illinois law against grave robbing. The real issue was that grave robbery only carried a maximum one-year sentence and the conspiracy charges provided for a longer prison term. The sentence would also be served at the state penitentiary where the prisoners could be put to hard labour. So, basically, he's saying, well, that's not actually true. They got done for different crimes because they could get a harsher penalty this way.

Hughes and Mullen continued their bumbling ways during the trial. Several individuals, including Hughes' sister Bridget, came forward to put up a, quote, straw bail for their release. The practice of pledging property they did not own to make good on a bail default. So they're saying, oh, we'll put up that house. Yeah, that's one of my houses, the one down the road. It's one of mine.

Put that up. I'll put that up. I've got heaps. Yeah, I've got heaps. It's the one next door to that, either side. Take them all. I've got this whole suburb. Yeah.

So I'll put the suburb up if that'll do. If that helps. Apparently the sister and a number of other straw bailers were arrested for doing so. And the duo also wrote letters to a friend requesting that he provide a false alibi. The letters were intercepted and read into the court record, creating a very negative impression with the jury. There is little wonder that the two men were convicted. a very negative impression with the jury. There is little wonder that the two men were convicted, although after the trial, the jury wrote a letter demanding the indictment of Swaggles, suggesting that he should be sentenced

to three years in prison, as they believed that he was the gang's ringleader, which is bizarre. Hang on. Swaggles, the undercover cop. Yeah. The jury's like, we think he's- We think he's the worst. Yeah.

Can they do that? I don't think anything came of it. But it was the front. He wasn't on trial. If I was the judge, I'd be like- He's the only reason that we're- Yeah, if I was the judge, I'd be like, have you listened to anything that's happened? Do you know who that is?

I think maybe we need a new jury. These people are idiots. Let's go again. All right. Okay. Yeah, no, thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you.

Do you want to just out that door It's a pool It's a pool door I can't get out So They both got done And they Had to do hard labour

And after that Hughes apparently Disappeared without a trace. Mullen, however, surfaced again on April the 21st, 1888. He was found guilty in Dona Ana County, New Mexico, of conspiracy in a land fraud case and was given three years in the New Mexico State Penitentiary and a fine of $1,000. And he served that sentence in full.

The mastermind behind the plot, Big Jim, he fell on hard times in 1880. So it seems like he sort of maybe, I'm not sure. Because he wasn't there, I guess. He wasn't there, maybe, yeah. Or they did. Either way, he's dead now. But apparently he eventually broke his own rule against getting within touching distance of counterfeit money and was arrested in St. Louis for dealing in and being in possession of bogus $10 notes.

After much legal delay, he was sentenced to serve one year in the Illinois State Penitentiary, still the home of his old friend, Ben Boyd. So the whole point of it was to get him out. Oh, to get Ben Boyd. And in the end, they're serving time together. Well, that's nice. Ben. Yeah.

Ben, I'm here to get you out. At least part of it was, you know, I want Ben back. Yeah. No, you got Ben back. That's right. That's nice. Maybe that was his long game, long plan all along. Just want to be with Ben.

Just want to be with Ben. That's nice. I mean, as if we're ever going to steal a body successfully. I just want to be with Ben. Just want to be with Ben. That's nice. I mean, as if we're ever going to steal a body successfully. I just want to be with Ben. Just want to be with Ben. And I knew that, you know, Ben wouldn't respect me unless I got in here for doing something big. You know, it's like an old romantic comedy. It's the big romantic gesture.

Yeah. It's his version of holding the boom box above his head. That's right. Running out into the pitch. Yeah. Holding Abe's body above his head. I love you. In the rain. Yeah. Holding Abe's body above his head. I love you. In the rain.

I've always loved you. Finally, let's just talk about what ended up happening to Lincoln's body. Oh, yeah. So, according to Turner, his family and friends after this wished to guard against future threats to Lincoln's coffin. So, in 1880, Lincoln was secretly reburied in the tomb's interior. They never know to look there in the same tomb. But I guess it's quite big. And it had to be moved several times due to the tomb's deterioration and high water table.

So, they had to move it around a bit. Wow. But there was this group of, I think they were locals, and they all swore to secrecy on where it would be, and they kept that secret forever. The real secret service of these guys. Then when Mary Lincoln, his wife, died in 1882, she was also secretly buried beside her husband. In 1901, Robert Lincoln finally settled on a plan for the permanent reburial of his father. lincoln finally settled on a plan for the permanent reburial of his father robert who had worked for the pullman company and ultimately became its president was well aware of the extraordinary measures that had been taken by the pullman family to secure the remains of george pullman

the head of the pullman company obviously and uh they they buried him very securely securely because they were worried about desecration by disgruntled employees. Oh, shit. So, you know that's a good place of work. Yeah, beautiful culture. I don't want any of these employees to dig me up and shit on me. Okay, then maybe you can probably do something about that now while you're alive.

So, that's what basically Robert Lincoln copied what the Pullman family did. Burying Lincoln, his dad, in a huge deep grave, then adding a steel protector in place, and then pouring tons of concrete on top. So, basically, in the end, he was buried like he was a mafia victim. A beautiful tribute. They'll never be able to take her. Thus ends my report into the plot to steal Abraham Lincoln's body. Great work. Blockbuster Toba.

Approved. Appropriate. Approved. So you wait till the end of every block Episode before you say whether or not The public was correct Some topics you go Blockbuster Toba you hear it and you go

Of course that's one How have we never covered that But this is a more obscure topic that I don't know of you guys I'd never heard of it before Then I go yep they chose good I couldn't imagine. I'm sure you'll post it on the social media, Matt, but the Lincoln's tomb in Springfield, I couldn't imagine what it looked like.

It is quite big, but then I've noticed that they've got a face of Abraham Lincoln there, and it's one of those things where people have clearly rubbed his nose for luck so much. He's got this big honker that's like- Is that what happened to the Sphinx? It's all shiny. Yeah, they rubbed it off for luck. So he's got this really funny looking nose. Yeah, he looks like he's an Australian cricketer with a bit of zinc on his nose.

Yeah, exactly. Ready for summer. But yeah, incredible looking tomb. I can see how, yeah, you could be in there and not see someone else. It was completely dark. Apparently in the dark it was a bit of a maze as well. But yeah, a lot of the family's now buried in there as well. Oh, how cool.

And even though the town really wanted it in the centre of town, worried that if it's on the outskirts it wouldn't be as good for tourism, apparently that is still the biggest tourist attraction. Yeah, fair. I mean, I hope probably the town's expanded over time and now that it's the middle of town. Yeah, yeah, that's how it tends to go, isn't it? And they wanted to put that on a roundabout.

Oh. It's about according to bridal vehicle. Bridal high cars. Bridal dresses. Bridal party. Car hire. Jeez. And I mean, they'd be my phone a friend if I was everyone who wants to be a millionaire.

I agree. Quick, call the good people at bridal car hire. Eddie, put them on. Put them on. Eddie, put them on. Eddie. Eddie, get them on. Eddie, come on.

Are you calling them? And your dad never got to that point, did he? He was at what on the first question? No, he was in the hot seat edition with no phone of friends. No phone of friends. That wasn't the first question. He, honestly, it's a shame. The hot seat thing's fun because it's a bit more movement and whatever.

But the old school one was, you know, it was like test match cricket versus a 2020. You know what I mean? The real stuff. The real stuff. You know, this new crap to get all the kids watching. Yes. Whatever.

Let's get your dad on the classic version. Bring it back. Bring it back. Phone a friend. Bridal car will be available. You've got to be the phone a friend for certain categories. I imagine that these days it's like, hi, dad. Yes, I'm just here on google.com. Can you just read the question out to me again? Nice and slow for me, please, dad. to be the phone a friend for certain categories i imagine that these days it's like uh hi dad yes

i'm just here on google.com can you just uh read the question out to me again nice and slow for me but you do it straight into a voice recognition thing hello the answer to the question is hello sorry can you repeat man i've i've been trying to get my voice thing to play a Cold Chisel song and it just can't do it. Wow. Like, play Belle of Versailles by Cold Chisel. Playing Bells Will Ring by Jiminy Crickets. What?

No, Belle of Versailles. How are you? Like, it exists. And then I say, play the album it's on, and then I go, skip track, skip track, skip track. At that point, just do it yourself. Oh, my God, I never thought of that. So, make your life so much easier. No, it's one of those things that doesn't have, one of the things that's always listening

and always planning to kill me. It's probably listening right now. That's me. Always listening, always plotting. Always plotting. Yeah, got her back. That feels good. Got her plotting, being slow.

You are closer and closer to death. Well, I think, am I wrong in saying this? This brings us to everyone's favourite section of the show? Yes. Okay, thank God. Didn't want to speak out of turn. This is where we thank some of our fantastic Patreon supporters. If you want to get involved,

go to patreon.com slash do go on pod. Do go on pod. And you can sign up on all these different levels. What are some of the levels, Bob? The levels are like the rewards, right? Yeah, so you know, I could give you a level, you tell them what the reward is. Great. The levels are Like the rewards Right? Yeah

So you know I can give you a level You tell them what the reward is Great Arse prod level Arse prod You can get a shout out Dreamboat Cooper level

You can get three bonus episodes a month Plus the back catalogue And the shout out And the back catalogue Like let me have a go It's called giving you a hint. Do you not want one? Am I not your phone a friend? No. What about...

Where am I doing it now? I'm going for a snack, dear listener. I'm having a little lolly. Sorry, candy. What about the Sidney Schoenberg level? Sidney Schoenberg level, well, baby, at that point, you can vote on multiple episodes. Yeah.

You vote on the topics. Heaps of them. But you can also be in the Facebook group. You get access to early tickets, all sorts of great stuff over on Patreon.com. A lot of those are just on any level. Yes. So what a great place to be. It's an unreal system.

So good. Patreon.com slash Duke on Pod. And the first thing we like to do for those who are signed up on the Sydney Schoenberg level, we do a section that's called Fact, Quote or Question. It has a little jingle go something like this. Fact, quote or question. Ding.

He always remembers the ding. She always remembers the sing. And the way this one works is people on the Sidney Schoenberg level or above get to give me a fact, a quote, or a question, or a brag, or a suggestion, or really whatever they like, and then I'll read them out for the first time on the show. They also get to give themselves a title. The first one this week comes from Brett Wall,

aka Lord Emperor of Average-Sized Toes, except for one, but I'll never tell which. That feels like a real Dave Warnock-y type. I hope he's got a really big little toe. You'll never know. A really small big toe. The results may surprise you. Brett Wall.

I'm a finger toe man. I have toes like fingers, and that's why you'll never see me barefoot. They're all phalanges, baby. They're all phalanges, baby. They're all phalanges. I love the langes. I do it for them. I don't know what you sound, but Brett Wall is offering us a break.

Your fingers and toes are phalanges. Oh. The same thing. Really? Yeah. So that's like mini limbs are phalanges. That's just like from a skeletal system point of view. Right.

So, you've got, if your arms are limb, your fingers are like the limbs of your, if your arms are the torso, your fingers are like the limbs of your arm. That's right. Yeah. I get you. He nailed it once again. So, we've got a brag from Brett. And Brett's brag goes like this.

You remember me? You remember me? I remember me. I was the biggest singer on the footy field. No, he says, you may remember me as the boy with a condom eating dog from nearly four years ago. I do remember you. Your mum got me to do, or you got me to do a cameo video about it. I think your mum got me to do it and mention that and also asked me to ask you to move

out. Wow. If I'm remembering that right. Anyway. What a way to do it. We've changed his diet and he's doing very well without all the latex. I think that makes sense to me. Yeah.

I'm not a dog expert, but that seems to make sense. Seems like it's probably not good for them. The reason I had become a Patreon then was because my dog had thrown the Luby treat up in front of my mum on the floor, and I wanted to embarrass her by having the hosts of our favourite podcast make fun of the incident that most certainly was not ribbed for her pleasure. Last one, I promise. Oh, my God. This show has been a way for the two of us to bond since nearly the beginning, and I wanted to start by thanking the three of you for that. Sincerely, thank you. Hey, Brett, no worries.

Hey, you're welcome. Thanks, Brett. And hello to Brett's mum. Hey, Brett's mum. Hey, Brett's mum. My current favourite joke is calling her on the phone, sounding all panicked, saying, Mum, Mum, I don't know what to do.

I keep getting this letter in the mail from the IRS. I'm really scared. What? What do you mean? What's it say? Then he says, It's asking what I'm doing for block. This joke has been a lot of fun for me.

I also had a fun one with somebody following me around town, but I'm getting away from the point. My mum, Lisa, and I have shared this podcast. Hi, Lisa. And together for years, I've used it to embarrass her, and now I want to use it to congratulate her. She was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer nearly a year ago and after surgery, a month of chemo and countless scans and tests

we can now say she is 100% cancer free. Oh, fuck yeah, Lisa. Alright, Lisa. My mum is truly my best friend and I'm so grateful that we're going to be able to continue listening to Do Go On together. Thanks again for everything. Oh my god, that was a rollercoaster, but freaking hell, that is- That is so lovely, but stop giving Lisa a heart attack. I've got a letter from the IRS. I'm being followed. Anyway, how's the chemo going? Come on, Brett. Grow the fuck up, Brett. I'm sick of it.

I've had enough. You've stopped feeding your dog dingers, but I think there's more growth to be had from you, Brett. Yeah. But I love your work, and I love a close family story like that. Beautiful. I love bringing the generations together. Stoked to hear Lisa's doing well. So good.

Best news. Thank you so much, Brett. Next one comes from Paul Meller, aka the wonderfully excited and very lucky Mr Meller. That's so nice. That's so good. That's so nice. I love that.

That sounds like a book that you might do on Book Cheat. It does, doesn't it? And Paul's written, I'm not usually one to brag, but my 50th birthday trip to Australia has been booked, so I'm bragging to everyone. That's exciting. I'll be bringing my family over for three weeks over March and April next year. So I'm looking forward to some time in Melbourne and then driving around the state of Victoria.

I'll be keeping an eye on St Kilda's Fixtures and the Comedy Festival too. So hopefully I have timed it so we can catch both. Yeah, the Saints will definitely be playing by them and the Comedy Festival will be on. Yeah. I think you've nailed it. Looking forward to getting to see some countryside too. Open to any suggestions of things to do over the Easter period

if you have any. Well, that's a hectic long weekend here at all the sort of the classic. I know in Bright where I like to go, that is the busiest weekend. I think you can go up there. So, if you like being in a beautiful place with too many people. Yeah. And average weather.

Yeah. Open to any suggestions. Keep up the great work, guys. Loving the pod and all the content you create. Cheers, Paul. Paul. Thanks, Paul pod And all the content you create Cheers Paul Paul Thanks Paul You're the loveliest Paul

That's so exciting So nice to have a big trip to look forward to Are we gonna What are we thinking about comedy festival I'm gonna be on a split show I think with Saran Jayamana Great And we're not

We're still talking about Whether or not we're gonna do something At the festival I think Well yeah At the time of recording I'm sure we'll do something Yeah we'll be We'll be there doing something Yeah We'll do something at the festival, I think. Well, yeah. At the time of recording. I'm sure we'll do something. Yeah, we'll be there doing something. Yeah.

We'll do something. Just try and stop us, Paul. Although, if we don't, we could go to the footy with you. Yeah. Definitely keen on that too, Paul. Love you, Paul. Love you, Paul. The next one here comes from Nick Fidian, which is one of the great names.

Oh, my God. Following on from the very lucky Mr. Mellor, Nick Fidian's called himself the luckiest man in the world. Oh, wow. It's a luck off. It's a luck off? It's a luck off. This is the third brag in a row. Okay.

Can you believe it? Oh, no, I've lost it. We have to get out of this hot room. Okay. Nick's brag writes, my brag is that, brackets, assuming this has been timed correctly, close brackets, I've just got married. Woo! Woo-hoo! If this has been read out after the 28th of October, then I'm married to the wonderful Lucy.

Oh, when is this episode coming out? I think it's before it. I think it's just before. Congratulations on the upcoming nuptials. This one is going to come out on the... I hope it's on the wedding day. Oh, yeah. It comes out on the 18th.

18th. Fantastic. So... Consider this podcast your box party. Here we go. My pants are off. Am I doing that rightucks party. Here we go. My pants are off. Am I doing that right? That's unrelated.

Okay. It's really hot in here. It's quite warm. Goes on to say, she's my best friend, and I'm looking forward to spending the rest of our lives together. I won't gush too much here, as I will be, or will be saving that for the speech, but I truly feel so lucky to know her My wife.

Thank you for indulging me, being very soppy, but I had to use this opportunity to brag about this. Nick, of course. Not at all soppy. You could have increased the sop. Yeah. I'm feeling dry here. And I would like your next Fact Quarter question to be an update

on how the wedding went. Tell us the highlights. Be soppy. Love is beautiful. I'd love some gossip maybe about Aunty Faye or something. What did Aunty Faye get up to? What did she get up to? Can she be trusted?

A few too many shandies. Yeah, love to hear that about Faye. Hopefully Uncle Bill behaved himself. You know he didn't. You know he didn't. He's a rat bag of the highest order. He's an absolute rat bag. Final one this week comes from Madeline Murray-Baker.

And Madeline Murray-Baker is president of Porpoises with Purposes. A bit of fun. One of you wasn't here for that. I was here for that. I was here for that. Jess was away. Okay. No, didn't you tell him? I thought you told him that he didn't say porpoise properly.

I think. Weren't you saying poipus? Yeah. You listened, but you weren't here. You were swimming with the piggies. There you go. That's it. I would have listened.

Yeah. Like the mafia swim with the fishes. You were swimming with the piggies. Theiggies, sounded cutesier than I meant It made us sound menacing No, but it was really cute You were swimming with piggies The Bahamas, wow You're going to do a report about that one day

Why are there pigs in the Bahamas? Anyway, the president of Orpuses with Purposes, Madeleine Murray Baker Has a question. And the question is, what was your first email address? Mine was dianemutter11 at yahoo.com. It's German for your mother. I probably said it wrong then.

And I thought it was very edgy. But also, it was already taken. So, I had to add my lucky number at the end because what's more lucky than being your mother? Wow. Love heart emoji. That's true. My mum is lucky. To have you.

To have me. I can't, I'm not sure if I remember this exactly, but I think it was, I think my first email address was probably also Yahoo. And I think it was, I think my first email address was probably also Yahoo and I think it was Matt Pride and I, it's because I didn't understand emails but I was at an underage local punk gig and there was a sign-up sheet and it was like your name and your email address and I said, I don't have one of them. God, you're old.

And the woman. God, you're old And the woman God you're old The woman On the thing Was also like I was like Fifteen And she's like Really?

Okay Let's make you up one And then you can sign it up When you get home Such a She should have just gone Whatever Yeah

But anyway She talked me through it I said how much do they cost She said they're free So was she like a live random name generator? Yes. She's like, all right, I'm thinking Matt Pride. Yeah.

At Yahoo.com. Done. Sorted. You're welcome. Can't wait to email you. Yeah, it's a pretty good story there. Wow. But yeah, it's funny that they even had email addresses all those centuries ago.

What was yours, Dave? Well, I know this because I had a whole bit about it in my stand-up show at the Comedy Festival this year. My first ever email, no, what a lie, was wieneratthebeach at hotmail.com. That's good stuff. Are people going to be able to see this show? Did you record the audio up in Brisbane? Yes, haven't got a copy of it yet, though,

so I wonder if I'll ever be able to release it. But, mate, you might be able to put it out online. Yeah, I hope so. Recorded. I don't think I'll do it again, so that was the last time in Brisbane. That'd be cool. I love the idea of a comedy album. Everyone's filming them these days.

Nah. Yeah, and I put mine on vinyl. Yes. That's sick. I would buy that. That is cool. At a discount, at cost price. Yeah, mate's rates, if you don't mind.

Yes, a winner at the beach at hotmail.com, which I made in 2001 in grade five. I do not know what it means or why I picked that. Like, that's not a phrase that doesn't relate to anything. I can think of no pop culture thing. I just thought it was funny. And my email was wieneratthebeach.hotmail.com. Yeah, wiener. Wiener.

Did you mean it like- Wiener dog. Wiener dog. Or sausage. Or sausage. Or sausage or... Penis. When you call someone a little wiener, hey, piss off, wiener. So that's penis.

Yeah. Is it? I think so. Like if you're a little geek, you're a little wiener. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I reckon. I reckon.

It's not sausage, is it? Sausage is closer to penis than like a wimp. Yeah. Wimp. Yeah. Wimp. All right. Anyway, Jess. Just while you're answering, I'm going to look up why does wiener mean wimp? And Jess, your email?

One of my earliest ones was Jess the Great. Like Alexander the Great. Oh, wow. You know what I mean? Because I'm pretty great. Was it a hotmail? It was underscore 16 at probably hotmail, I think. Like Alexander the Great. Oh, wow. You know what I mean? Because I'm pretty great. Was it Hotmail or Yahoo? It was underscore 16 at probably Hotmail, I think.

I reckon. Yeah, that were the big ones. Hotmail and Yahoo. Yeah. And then AOL. Then Gmail came in. And then parents got involved and got a big pond. Yes.

At Telstra.com. Yep. Netspace. Oh, yeah, Netspace. My parents were with Netspace. Oh, yeah, Netspace. My parents were with Netspace. Calling a person a wiener, i.e. a wimp or dork, can be considered mildly offensive.

Okay, that doesn't really explain the origin, though, does it? Dictionary.com. So, disappointing. More like wiener-tionary. Got them. Got Got em Absolutely destroyed them Thank you so much for that question Madeline And to the braggers Nick, Paul and Brett

I mean doesn't that sum things up Madeline asks a question Wants to know about us The three fellas Brag brag brag Me me me As a feminist I need to stand up and point out what i see okay and i'm sorry that's right i'm a cuck i'm a cuck so i got a new one recently

what was it oh someone called me online i forget but i got a new yeah version of that recently damn it and uh they really let me have it it was some newer version of that recently. Damn it. And they really let me have it. It was some newer version of cuck or whatever. It's exciting. Sorry, boy. Good for you. Yeah.

I'm glad that I'm still connecting. The next thing we'd like to do is shout out to a few of our other great Patreon supporters. Bob, you normally come up with a bit of a game based on the topic at hand. Any thoughts this week? Whose grave are they robbing? No, probably not. Probably not. Yep. Getaway vehicle.

We've done that before, haven't we? I don't know. I like it, though. Have we ever had a getaway horse before? This is fun. Yeah, getaway vehicle. Getaway vehicle. I like this. Getaway mode of transport.

Okay. Fantastic. First up, if I can kick us off, I'm going to say thank you so much to this person from Ashfield, New South Wales, Australia, Nick Batley. Komodo dragon. Oh, yeah. Getaway dragon. Getaway dragon.

Getaway Komodo dragon. Getaway dragon. No, not like that. No, no. Come back. I want to get away on you. Sorry, I was referring to you. Jesus is going to cause issues for Nick.

This Komodo dragon's a fucking idiot. Why did I choose this idiot dragon? This dragon is an... I saw Komodo dragon on my recent holiday. Not in the wild. Where did you get your ideas from? I don't know. where do you see one at a at a um at hartley's um it's like a wildlife park type thing cool hartley's crocodile and

adventures it's fucking sick what were the adventures you did um you go on a little boat and it goes around this little man-made lake and they feed the crocs and you get to see the crocs up close and it's really cool. That's cool. Yeah, it was awesome. Was it Komodo dragon moving around? It was just sort of lying there in the sun looking cool.

Nice. That was so cool. Anyway, check out Hartleys in far north Queensland. Is it maybe like because they're like floppy? Is that why a wiener might be a wimp? I think you've got to move on. But I choose not to. This is now my life's work.

Thank you so much to Nick. I'd also love to thank from, ooh, address unknown. Can only assume from deep within the fortress of the moles. I'd love to think. Joanna Toner. Joanna Toner. Oh, my God. That's a great name. I'm trying to say it.

Give it a go, Jess. Joanna Toner. Joanna Toner. Joanna Toner getting away on. Joanna. Joanna Toner. Toner. Toner.

Getaway vehicle is a bag of Hot Wheels cars glued together. Hopefully all wheels down. Otherwise. Quite painful and not that helpful. But if they're all wheels down, that is sick. What if she's getting away down a snowy mountain?

Then you want them probably upside down. Yeah, that's when you flip it. Flip it. It's flippable. Joanna Toner. Joanna Toner. Hello, I'm Joanna Toner.

Joanna Toner. Hello, I'm Joanna Toner. We don't know where Joanna Toner's from, so we can't get the accent right. So we've done all three accents. We've done the three big ones. To me, a garage is just a place you park your car.

Joanna Doner. This is my attempt at South African. Is that how you have to get into it? I think so, yeah. Yeah, fair. Someone said somewhere recently in a comment, I must have done South African accent. They said, we need more of that South African accent.

So that was for you, whoever that was. Okay, great. Oh, when I was in New York a couple of months ago. Okay, la-di-da. Oh, no, I'm a traveller, whatever. We're in line at a bookshop and we get to the front and the lady goes, oh, where are you from? And we said Australia. She goes, oh, my God, I love Australians.

I do a great Australian accent. Listen, listen, listen. Oh, my God, they never do. And then she goes- Some of them do. These were her words to get into character. Like, Matt just had his phrase there. Yeah, listen, listen. Oh, my God. They never do. And then she goes- Some of them do. These were her words to get into character. Like, Matt just had his phrase there. Yeah, what's hers?

She goes, razor blades. That's good. Pizzeria. And then she goes, get out of my- It wasn't too bad, but razor blades. Razorblades. Pizzeria. That was her get in phrase.

Because there is a- I think there's a trick where you read it out, you read out different words and it sounds like an Australian saying Rise of Blades. Yeah. I can't remember what it was. Rise up lights. Rise up lights. Rise up lights.

But you know how we always say pizzeria. Pizzeria. We do say pizzeria. Oi, over here at the pizzeria. Hey, do you guys want to grab some grub? I'll meet you down at the pizzeria. Pizzeria. The all you can eat pizza at parroia. Hey, do you guys want to grab some grub? I'll meet you down at the Pizzarroia. Pizzarroia. The all-you-can-eat Pizza Hut Pizzarroia.

I love Italian cuisine down at the Pizzarroia. Yeah, could I get morn with a lot down at the Pizzarroia? Get an egg on morn. That's Aussie style for some reason. Famous for our chicken eggs down here. Thank you so much. Thank you. Joanna Toner.

Joanna Toner. And finally, from Gulfview Heights in South Australia, it's Alicia Briggs. Alicia Briggs. Briggs-y. Get away on a jet ski. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's being towed by a tugboat. Is there anything more badass than that? I can't think of something. I can't either. Well, then, sorry to the next six people, because the rest of these are going to be dog shit. They're not dogs. They're just not badass.

Not badass. They might be sleek. They might be slender, but they're not badass. They could still be badass. Yeah. Could I thank some people? Absolutely. I would love to thank, from Alfredton in Victoria, Tessa Eichler.

Tessa Eichler. Eichler. Eichler. Getting away on... On... Not razor blades, but roller blades. Roller blades. And also in those roller blades is Drazik from Heartbreak High.

So, you're getting a rollerblade piggyback from Drazik. And you know where they're heading? The Pozaroa. The Pozaroa. Going to have a couple of spiders at the Pozaroa. Thank you, Dezza. I would also like to thank, from address unknown, so we can only assume deep within the Fortress of the Moles,

Josh Peters. Josh Peters. Matt matt you're due for one he's looking at weiner stuff i am um this is according to etymology online uh it comes from vienna sausage venaverse uh and it means ineffectual person or a feminine young man originating in 1963 pejorative sense via penis shape or perhaps from weenie in the sense of small. Oh, yeah, weenie, you little weenie. Little weenie.

It's funny, like, oh, penis shape. Feminine. I don't quite know if I can quite connect the dots there. And Josh is getting away on a... Wienermobile. Wienermobile. How does he get his ideas? It's baffling.

I don't know how he works. He crashed it into a shop. This could have been Andy, buddy. That guy's dressed like a hot dog. Oh, no. That's good stuff. I just saw him. He was a special guest at the Detroit Lions game this week,

and he was so stoked to be there. What's his name again? Tim. Tim. Robinson. Tim Robinson. And we are talking about his show. I think you should know.

But, yeah, so he was there, and he's like, he just was so stoked to be on the sidelines, and they're like, how's it feel to be embraced by your team? He's like, it's honestly, it's the best. He was so stoked. I love watching it. Wow, I'd be weirded out to see him be genuine. I know, it was fun.

Love to see it. Thank you to Josh. I would also finally like to thank from Princess Anne in Maryland, Jay Palmer. Jay Palmer. That's not a place. That's a woman. Princess Anne. You live in Princess Anne. That's a woman. Princess Anne.

You live in Princess Anne? You can't live in Princess Anne. Unless you're a fetus. It's a town in Maryland. Princess Anne. No, Jess, now you're falling down the same trap. It's not a town. It's a person.

It's Princess Anne in Maryland. What is going on here? This is crazy. Princess Anne in Maryland. So, what going on here? This is crazy. Princess Anne in Maryland. So, what's Jay Palmer getaway? Slide. Getaway slide. A series of slides.

Yes. That's good stuff. Each, what, shorter than the last? Or is it, you've got to keep going down. What, no, what he does is, who is it? Jay Palmer. Jay Palmer. What they do is they specifically rob places with slides.

Right. McDonald's playgrounds. Like Club Surreal in Hobart in the 2000s, which had a slide inside. So, they'd rob the bar at the top. Yeah. They'd get a Miduri shaker. And then they'd slide down to the bottom level where the wacky pool tables that were in different shapes were. And then they'd get out from there.

That's good stuff. That's all that I can remember from that place. Dave, do you want to thank some people? I'd love to thank- This person is from Brooklyn in New York. It is Isaac Keltenko. Have you been to New York, Dave, recently? I have, actually.

Insufferable. Have you been to the borough of Brooklyn? I drove through there. You drove to New York, Dave, recently? I have, actually. Insufferable. Have you been to the borough of Brooklyn? I drove through there. You drove through New York? Yes. Bloody hell. Wow. Locals don't do that or do do that.

One of the two. Or either. And Isaac's getting away on- Mr Sheffield's limo. Yes. Stuck in traffic, but in style. Exactly. There's a bar back there and also a car phone.

Wow. Imagine making a call in the car. That's crazy. They had the coolest aerials as car phones. Little pigs. Little twirly antennas. Why are they so twirly? Oh, yeah.

Cute. Thanks, Isaac. And now a big shout out to the Fortress of the Moors. We can only imagine that's where this person's from because they haven't given us their address. They don't trust us, but we trust them. Eddie Wilson. Whoa. Eddie Wilson.

Hi, Eddie. Cruise ship. Got away in a cruise ship. Oh, that's good. It was slow, but luxurious. And also all food included. Yeah, all inclusive. It was entertainment.

Kirstie Wiebeck was performing. One of those ones that has like a couple of different nightclubs in it. Yeah. Actually, I just had a really good time. So, good for Eddie. But was it the Kiss kiss cruise which i only just discovered like they every year did a kiss cruise yeah can you imagine that all kiss all the time they've become relatively common but there's there's a punk like a pop punk one i think

and uh yeah people spend huge dollars go on and then there's concerts through the day i mean could we get the podcast cruise happening no we're gonna get it's not a cruise it's a barge yeah the podcast bar i think we ever did it we if we ever wanted to make it we could do a mini one on like one of those little yarra river boats they contacted me a couple of comedy festivals ago saying you want to you want a free ride to promote your show or something i'm like yeah that'd be great and then i forgot to get back how does it get promoted? I don't know. Freeride, do you do like stand up while people are like trying to look at the sites?

I guess they just hoped that I'd put it out to my huge following. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. They couldn't afford Jess, so they got you. Yeah. Well, they said the same to Jess, but they said two boats. Yeah, I got two boats and I got to straddle. She straddles.

She's a straddle. Oh, stronger than damn star. Yeah, it was two boats and I got to straddle. I got just one foot on each. Yeah, it was fucking sick, actually. Incredible. So thanks, Eddie Wilson. And finally from us, we'd like to thank this week also from the Fortress of the Moles. Do you know this person? Their name is the Muffin Man. Oh, dude, is the one

down Drury Lane? I believe that might be right, but how would the Muffin Man get away? Gum drop buttons. Gum drop away? Gum drop buttons. Gum drop buttons. Gum drop buttons. The Muffin Man. Or riding a rat. A getaway rat.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's getaway rat. The Muffin Man from Address Unknown does not want to be known. No. And I respect the hell out of that. Me too. So, thank you. But we respect the hell out of that. Me too. So, thank you. But we take your muffin dollars and we say thank you.

Yeah, we say thank you. They're delicious. Thank you for those muffin dollars. Oh, the muffin man. Thank you so much to you and Eddie, Isaac, Jay, Josh, Tessa, Alicia, Joanna, and Nick. And the final thing we need to do is welcome a few people into our Triptych Club jess explains so elegantly thank you and so concisely yeah that's why i don't do it anymore look at me now i'm just trying to throw it over to her and she would have done it by now you just don't shut up so what it is and what i want you to do jess is just as quick as you can because you know time

is money um can you just please explain to the listeners what the triptych club is it's a club for people who have supported us and i say triptych of course but i know it's actually pronounced triptych uh dave gives a bum steer and i've not been able to get out i actually don't think we need to correct ourselves i'm happy it's our own thing no one can copyright that because we created it anyway dave just was Jess was trying to talk. Sorry, Jess. I've already done it. I've explained what it is. And Dave, do you normally book a band for the after party? You're never going to believe it.

What? I book huge acts, but they don't get much bigger. This week, dropping by, Linkin Park. Whoa. Can you believe it? It's funny, going through the hat, trying to find everyone who suggested the topic with the search term Lincoln. And there's a lot of people from Lincoln Park and Lincoln, Nebraska and other Lincolns around America that I, you know, like the search. I'm like, whoa, what is this?

Like 90 people have suggested it, but so many of them were just addresses. And they're suggesting something else. Yeah. What's one of Lincoln Park park's big songs crawling uh in the end oh yeah remember that one uh numb um and i'm about to break is that one of them well that's probably the in the end doesn't matter doesn't even matter it doesn't matter nothing does um so on. I've prepared some food. Oh, fantastic. So, I'm behind the bar. I've got drinks and food for you.

I have prepared a selection of President Lincoln's favourite foods. Oh, wow. What do you think that, I mean, what do you know he liked? Well, he was fond of certain foods, especially apples. He was fond of dew. So, I have fruits. I'm just going to persevere. Fruits, nuts, cheese, and crackers.

His favourite dishes were chicken fricassee, which is just like a stew, and biscuits, or with biscuits, and oyster stew. And for dessert, apple pie. He loves apples. I like apple pie. I really want it to be apple stew, but the man loves his stew. What do you think's inside an apple pie? Stew.

Apple goo. Apple goo. Apple stew. There's only one inductee this week, and everyone's dying to hear the Immortal Band, because one of them's dead, Linkin Park play. That's right, but in our club, it's possible. They're all back together. That's right. This is in the land of make-believe, and that's why it's one of the happiest places in the world

because anything's possible as long as it's positive. And there's just one inductee this week. So, I'm on the door. I'm going to lift up the velvet rope. If you hear your name, jog on in. It's actually two names, and then Dave's going to hype you up on stage with some of his powerful wordplay.

Jess is going to hype Dave up because he needs it. You know, he's a sensitive soul. And the crowd will go wild. And then we'll finish the show up. So, please, make welcome from Nuremberg in Deutschland. It's Anna and Lucas Spath. They're just the tip of the Nuremberg. Go on in.

Join us in the Spath Bath. Like Spar Bath. Anna and Lucas. You did it. The Spath Bath. The Spath Bath. Okay, just for listeners, there's an umlaut in both Nuremberg and Spath. I hope I got close.

Anyway, love that you're listening from Deutschland. Big fan. We're going to do a live show there soon. Dave was telling me we're doing it in Berlin. I don't know if we're booked a venue. I might be jumping the gun here. But just- I think it's fine to make promises.

Check local guides. Check local guides. I haven't mentioned it to Jess, but who cares? Check your local guides. Just keep your eyes peeled and do yourselves a favour. Jess, anything we've got to tell people before we go? That we love them. If you would like to suggest a topic, you can do so at dogoonpod.com

or there's a link in the show notes. And you can find us on all social media on dogoonpod. And wash your butt. Dave, boot at home. Always wash your butt. Wise words there. Hey, Blockbustertober rolls on and rocks on. We are getting to the tip of the Nurnberg.

Oh, my God. If you know what I'm saying. We're so hot. We're even losing Dave now. We're going to get some air conditioning. But thank you so much for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode. But until then, thank you so much and goodbye.

Later. Bye. Woo-hoo. Bye. Woo-hoo. Bye. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices.

We can demand more from the earth. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future.