Two In The Think Tank - 418 - The Clydach Murders

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

It wouldn't be Block without some true crime, and this week we talk about the biggest police investigation in Welsh history - the Clydach Murders. This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 07:35 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSupport the show on Apple podcasts and get bonus episodes in the app: http://apple.co/dogoon Live show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/ Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-02-09/the-true-story-of-the-clydach-murders-wales-biggest-police-investigationhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/23/ukcrimeMurder in the Valleys , 2022The Clydach Murders; A Miscarriage of Justice by John Morris https://news.sky.com/story/i-became-the-devil-trauma-of-the-woman-wrongly-suspected-of-murdering-an-entire-family-in-clydach-12527037https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/shadow-one-wales-worst-ever-19264258https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-08-20/man-convicted-of-the-clydach-murders-has-died-in-prison-it-has-been-announced Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody, Jess and Dave, just jumping in really quickly at the top here to make sure that you are across all the details for our upcoming Christmas show. That's right, we are doing a live show in Melbourne Saturday December the 2nd, 2023, our final podcast of the year, our Christmas special. It's downstairs at Morris House, which usually be called the European beer cafe. On Saturday December the 2nd, 2023 at 4.30pm, come along, come one, come all, and get tickets at dogoonpod.com. Why Cam H needs your help to light the way forward? Your donation can help us make sure no one is left behind by fueling progress in mental health care

and patient experience. Donate now at CamH.ca slash giving Tuesday to double your impact with a match donation. That's CamH.ca slash giving Tuesday. Hello and welcome to another episode of Dugo on my name is Dave Wunky and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins. Get a good a little moody. Hello Cobbys. Hey bloody grotters.

So good to be in your presence here today. Hey quick question. Yeah. Yeah bloody good is it to be a lot. Well I wish I was never born. And I'm true blue. Hey rip rip wood shit. Turn it in a paper.

Here we go. I regret starting this. She's me, you and I'll keep it that way. I just say that Aussie phrase. Razer Blades, Pete Soraya, and I mean, Sam, Pete Soraya. Oh, happy continuation of block. What a block, it's been so far.

It's been, maybe the biggest block of all time. Do you reckon? Hmm, guess it depends on how you measure that. Yeah, how would we measure block? Block, bigness. That's just a sheet of it is. That's barbed I think, mainly. And it can only get bigger and bigger each year, right?

The vibe is as big as it's been. Yeah. Okay, you can't say that at home, dear, let's not, The vibe is as big as it's been. Yeah. Oh, okay. You can't see that at home, dear. Let's not bet that. No, it's almost as well as being a tumbleweed. That was the lattice tension. That's the difference.

It's the best bit. It's not going, it's the best vibe. It's a bit... Small lull, as I wipe my dripping nose. Oh, no. The it's ever been. It's more or less as I like wipe my dripping nose. Oh no. The vibe is huge. The vibe is huge. Should be the opposite of that, really, wouldn't it?

Yeah, I guess so. Unblocked for it. Okay, what up? But people don't know what block is, Jess, what is it? It is. It's the... What, what, I mean? It's the most wonderful time of the year.

What, isn't it? You know what I mean? That is so well put as a question. I mean, it's the most wonderful time of the year. What, isn't it? You know what I mean? That's the most wonderful time of the year that I've put in. What, isn't it? You know what I mean? That is so well put as a question.

Right, no, start this in what it isn't. It's not Christmas. Oh, it's not Valentine's Day. It's not Labor Day. But also it's all of those things. All of those things, yet somehow none of them. Okay. but also it's all of those things. All of those things, yet somehow none of them. Block is where our wonderful listeners vote on a bunch of topics.

These are the most requested, most voted on topics. So they are always absolute blockbuster episodes. They're big stories, they're fun, wild, murdery sometimes, they can be anything, but they're the most voted on. And it's always, you know, it's supposed to be October with annex November, and it's a beautiful time of year. October, but November. Yeah. This is the block tofer grace period. It's blockbuster tober. It's everything you want it to be,

and more, whether you want it to be or not. And Jess is about to report on one of our most voted for topics of all tolerance. I've got a more de puffed from trying to explain what block is. Sorry, I forgot the e-tours, I have to be the one who does it. I should have really handballed that one to Matt. You should. You think I did really well. You don't eat all. Well, and you choosing the podcast on a treadmill, I think, is back for.

Go ahead, get my steps in. Go a little walking pad under here. I'm walking. Yes, I've got a topic to tell you all about today and I have a question to get onto that topic. Fantastic. Matt and I, before we record it, admitted that we've both forgotten what you're going to talk about.

So this is a genuine answer. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, we have, because obviously we had to like, we tell it all the votes. We know what the top numbers are. I've got no idea. They're written down somewhere where we can all access it. Yeah.

And I haven't looked at it. Like, I never know what it's going to be. It's exciting. But yeah, it does mean this is still a surprise. Okay, here we go. Okay, the question is, Catherine Zeta Jones. Wiles. Michael Douglas. Rob Bry Jones. Wiles, Michael Douglas.

Rob Brydon. Wiles. And Bonnie Tyler, were all born, where? Wiles. Correct. I'm sick with Michael Douglas. It is Wiles, specifically. Wiles?

How did I get that right? Because I said Catherine Degon. Okay, well that is very impressive. I have no recollection of whales being on the... Whales is correct, but it's not the answer I was looking for. Oh, this is a card of... Nope. Ooh.

Can you name any other... Ricsom. Area in Whales. South Wales. North Wales. Old South Wales. Okay, you got like... New South Wales.

Oh. South Wales is, yeah, that's kind of correct. Let's think of like a bird. Like my dog's name is... Good. ...Think of another similar type of bird. Swon, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, swan, sw, sw, swan, swan, swan, like, whatever comes into your mind. Well, it was a really hard question to write. It wasn't the most relevant, because this is a report about a famous murder in the general area of Swansea.

I was thinking, Swansea made the top-no! The history of the Swansea football club. This is the sixth-mote voted for Topic for Block Block and it's the Clidach murder. Right. I'm glad you know I would not have remembered that. I'm just looking it up. It had only just snuck over the last few weeks 27.38% of the votes. I mean I think our listeners love murder.

Yeah, they love murder murder. I'm a little bit of mystery and intrigue. And this was actually suggested by one person from Swansea, a long time listener, Serri John Jones. Oh, yes. Carrie John Jones, thank you. Carrie gave Dave and I some cookies,

am I thinking of the right person? Oh yeah, yeah, there were, it's a cookies, or what are that? It's not cookies, am I thinking the right, okay? Oh yeah, yeah, there were, it's a cookies, it's not cookies, it was some, it was some, I think that would be the most brutal way to describe whatever they were, but that were fantastic. That were like Welsh, Welsh bunnies or something.

You know, they would have had a fun name like that. Cool. Probably not bunnies, but. Yeah, carried on drones, long time listener. Welsh breakfast cake? Welsh cakes. Welsh cakes. Well done. Bunnies was, to be honest, miles off. bunnies but yeah carried on drones long time listener well watch first cake well cakes well cakes well done bunnies was to be honest miles off what you call cookies you idiot remember delicious and we ate them the next day for breakfast

we did while we were going to see the Bristol clock with two different times on it because I don't know how to party and dive right in the car while I ran and had a look at we're gonna get a power that's how in demand this clock is. So you thought I'll just do some loops. You go have a look for both of us. And don't worry, the cameras we're rolling in. Eventually we will put out that two of videos. So people can see that moment caught on film.

Because it's like the clock is only like 15 or 30 minutes behind the other. 10 minutes. I think it's 10. Anyway, find out more about that in our upcoming travel documentary of Bristol. Can't wait. I'll wait for watching that. Anyway.

So, Kerry's the only one who suggested this. Yeah. Incredible. I think I suggested a while ago, but yeah, it cares from Swansea, and it's a famous story in Wales in particular, but obviously in this general area too. It's very well-known. So, it got the votes probably based mainly on the word murders.

I think so, yeah. But it is a really interesting case. And I would love to tell you all about it if you don't mind. Please. They're gone. So at approximately 12.30 AM on Sunday, the 27th of June, 1999. 34-year-old Mandy Power got out of a taxi with her daughters, 10-year-old Katie and eight-year-old Emily,

and walked up the steps to the front door of their home in clinic village in Swansea in Wales. Four hours later, at 4.30am, Robert Wachowski heard banging and smashing noises, and looked at his bedroom window to see white smoke billowing from the rear of Mandy's house Oh my god new pope. I was also thinking new pope. Does that mean new Welsh pope? New Welsh pope You know remember this the Welsh pope

He initially thought someone had set fire to a bag of rubbish and he grabbed the phone and called Mandy's landline No answer so we tried a mobile but again no answer I thought having a you know, neighbors numbers. There's a lot of community. I've got no neighbors phone numbers. And I like it that way. That also dates us to 99 and calling the landline first. Yeah. And then the mobile mobile. So there was only a brief time where you would call,

you would even have both options. Yeah. And you'd call them in that order. Yeah. It was always landline first. And but also like, it just makes sense, I guess, doesn't it, because the landline's gonna wake up the whole house. Yeah, but then you might call through and be like, oh, someone's on the internet.

Yeah. They're on net scape. They're on the wall. Beautiful sounds. Also showing at our age by having that nostalgia. So he's, can I get a through on the phone? I still have dialogue. He ran across the road get a through on the phone. I still have dial up. He ran across the road, started banging on the front door,

shouting for Mandy to wake up. Around the back of the house, he saw that the kitchen was a flame. Another neighbor, Donald Jones, had joined him outside now. And the two men continued to bang on doors and shout and try to alert the occupants of the house. Another neighbor had called 999 and firefighters were quickly dispatched.

The firefighters assumed they'd be dealing with a pretty straightforward house fire, but conflicting reports were coming in as to whether the occupants of the house were inside. They didn't know if anybody was home or so. Shortly before the fire engine arrived, controllers confirmed that there was probably at least one person inside. Mandy's bed ridden 80-year-old mother Doris Dorsen They're like chances are she hasn't popped out. So we reckon Doris is home. Because she's bed ridden. Yes.

Too far. That means just always in the bed. That's right. Sort of grandpa Joe. Yeah, give her a golden ticket. Give her a golden ticket to a chocolate factory. She's clicking her heels out of there. Ha, ha, ha. More than 10 firefighters that arrived and they jumped into action.

The layout of the house was explained to them quickly by one of the neighbours. They said the stairs were just inside the front door on the right and the bedrooms were all upstairs. So Hugh Thomas, he's one of the firefighters. He explains in this documentary called murders in the valleys, which I murder in the valleys, which I murder in the Vales, which I fall back on a lot because it's a really great resource for this story. So he's explaining that he kind of felt his way up the stairs on his hands and knees because it's so the smoke is so thick you can't see. So the firefighters are sort of kind of crawling up the stairs.

And as he reached the landing at the top of the stairs, he did a bit of a sweep of the floor in front of him with his arm. And he's hand swept over a body. He realized it was one of the little girls. They carried her downstairs and out of the house and tried to resuscitate her. Quickly after the other child was found and then the mother. And for several long minutes, firefighters worked on the family giving CPR. A team of paramedics arrived within minutes and took over, although they could quite quickly tell that there was very little hope. Paramedic Barry Peer Point later said it was quite obvious that very serious injuries

had been sustained. All three of them had signs of serious head injuries, and the paramedics were unable to save any of them. Right, it was not just the fire that... That's right. Jesus, I was really hoping that family were gonna be the murderers. Yeah. That would...

Family murderers. Yeah, that would have been a fun story. One could only hope. One of the firefighters, Neil McPherson, re-entered the house to search for any more casualties. By now the fire was somewhat under control and the smoke was less dense. And in an upstairs bedroom He found the body of Doris Dorsen still in her bed. She too had suffered facial and head injuries

It was incredibly clear to everyone present that this fire was no accident and that this family home was now a crime scene author John Morris he wrote a book about this and I I used him a little bit as well So he wrote when police constable Alison Crew arrived at Kelvin Road, she immediately realized the seriousness of the situation and radioed her senior officer, Detective Inspector, who was also on duty that night. The detective inspector was an experienced police officer and had been a member of the South Wales police force for more than 20 years. When he arrived at Kelvin Road, his seniority effectively placed him in charge of the crime scene.

Police constables told him that the victims had not died as a result of the fire, but from injuries inflicted. Three of the bodies was still laid out on the lawn in front of the house. This was a multiple murder and demanded the highest level of priority and immediate action.

But the house was still on fire and the crime scene was overrun by firemen whose primary concern was to make it safe and minimize risk rather than to preserve evidence for use in any future criminal proceedings. Now as we said the detective inspector he's an experienced detective. He knew the steps needed to be taken in order to preserve evidence so that a criminal investigation could begin. But for reasons known only to him, the detective inspector took none of these steps and only spent about 10 minutes at the crime scene before leaving. I'm out of bed plans.

At 4, at 4.30 in the morning. Yeah, I've got plans to go back to bed. Can this wait? I mean, they're gone. I'll be back. So a bit of further context here again from John Morris, so he writes, between 1980 and 2000, South Wales police gave an entirely new meaning to the expression trial and error. Of all the police forces in Britain, South Wales police had been responsible for some of the worst miscarriages of justice in the

United Kingdom. By the time of the clinic murder, no fewer than nine earlier murder investigations by the force had proved to be miscarriages of justice and 19 people had been freed after being wrongly convicted of crimes they did not commit. Oh wow, is that because they turn up and they go get the vibe for about 10 minutes and go, I'm freaking that guy did it. I'm going back to bed.

Yes. Yeah, so it's not, it's not incompetence, they're not trying to, they just want to get it done and they don't care who they're putting away. Right, it's not corruption, it's just inconsequential. Yeah. Is that what I was going to say? Well John goes on to say, had their trials been conducted before 1967 when the death penalty was abolished, those individuals would have been hanged.

Whoa. So there's 19 people wrongly convicted. Um, all hard to undo that. Yeah. Many miscarriages of justice were caused by wrongdoing on the part of South Wales police detectives. Evidence was routinely altered and fabricated. In some cases, detectives wrote statements themselves and then forced suspects or witnesses

to sign them. Is that because they got the vibes that they'd done it? I'm like, it'll just be easier if you give us some evidence to prove this. Yeah, if you could just give us some evidence, that would actually make my job so much easier. I'll write the evidence, you just sign the evidence. Yeah, that's right. It's my dad's birthday, so if you can just admit it now. I'll still make it in time for cake.

After I've gone back to bed. I'll still make it in time for cake. After I've gone back to bed, had a full day, and then, make it in time for nothing tonight. In other cases, suspects were tortured, bullied, or simply worn down by lengthy interviews into making untrue confessions. Oh, wow, they were so bored, they could fester or murder. Oh, fuck this. I'm so bored.

Vulnerable witnesses were leaned on to make false statements, implicating an innocent person in a crime. Others were bribed, some intimidated. Prisoners serving time in jail were offered deals in return for signing false statements, and some detectives planted incriminating evidence where it was certain to be found to frame innocent suspects for crimes they hadn't committed.

I'll say this about the Swansea police. Their methods were unique, but they got results. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. to get convictions to arrest people to solve cases. So they just... I got KPIs.

Exactly right. So they just do that. But also, John Morris goes on to say, if framing an innocent person by police officers sworn to uphold the law was not bad enough, another custom that flourished within the ranks of South Wales police was equally corrupt. This was the sinister practice of watching one another's backs. It

ensured that a fellow police officer would escape the consequences of wrongdoing no matter how serious the misconduct or criminal their actions might be. So they also sort of covered each other up a lot. You have to get into a circle otherwise because it was just too of you. I could watch your back but you cannot watch mine. So suddenly one of those massages. Yeah, yeah. Or a convulnerable. And even if you like one of those massages Yeah, yeah, they're all just Or a convulnerable hunter's ship

Yeah, and even if you like Wow, a convulner line of massaging Wow, that's a dream party scenario But how are you watching each other's back in a circle? Because I'm watching your back, you're watching mass back Because watching it keeps going around I'm watching my back So you're all facing each other

Collectively watching each other's back Yeah, it could just be a long line Why doesn't it have to be a circle? Oh, because Because I'm the back of the line Unless we have a complicated system of mirrors like we go to like a house of mirrors. Oh, yeah House mirrors could work or you could do it like that. You know in the velodrome Olympic cycling that guy at the front always drops off and goes to the back So someone if you're not every you know, they're not watching you back for a 10 seconds, but someone will be watching it. It's a, it's a, you're vulnerable. Yeah.

For that 10 seconds. That's true. That's really, that's going over the top of the trenches, you know? You vulnerable. You're in, you're in no man's land. But it also, that's you proving that you're worthy of someone to watch your back soon, because you've done it for them. But if I was the enemy, I would just sit there, little sniper rifle, picking up. At the back. The good news is, as you go over the trench, I will be watching your back. Okay.

You get shot down. Okay. So you'll be watched the last second. He died a hero. I saw it. Oh, yeah, that does feel nice. As long as you watch my back running away from the battlefield. Yep.

Hero. Look, I got him just hone this statement. Saying, I'm a hero and Dave didn't do it. Sounds like it's the old footballer's code in the AFL where they'd go to the tribunal and some guy's been knocked out and he's at the tribunal with a broken face and he goes, yeah, no, I didn't feel a thing. No, I don't think he did anything.

I don't really do that anymore. Now they'll be like, he hit me raw first. There's a lot more cameras now too. I'm like, oh no, I'm fine. I'm so little at the front. I have one, my jaw shut for other reasons. That's fashionable. Yeah.

I try to get a more snatched jawline. So yeah, that's just a bit of context about like the lack of trust that people had in the police at the time as well, because 19 people in a not that long period, 20-year period. And the population's not huge, there's not millions and millions of people. Like this town, or like, yeah, the area, it was a population of like 7,000 people. Everyone knows. Everyone would have known someone who would have wrongly put away. So they don't have the best, the police don't have the best reputation. Meanwhile there's one murderer going around doing them all. Amazing, this is fantastic. This is the best day ever. The best day ever.

And then the cops have to be like wow a 19 a 19th copycat killer, but we got it. Wow, people in this town are obsessed with copying this killer. They're the same M.L. with everything. Same fingerprint. It's what, they're so good. So back to that fateful day, 27th of June 1999. When the night duty officers ended their shift at 6am, they made their way back to police headquarters and handed in their reports to the duty officer. And it was only then

two hours after the crime had first been discovered that South Wales police realized they were dealing with a serious crime. Because remember the detective inspector who spent 10 minutes there, he'd reported a fire but hadn't said anything about the deaths. He didn't pass on the fact that there's four murdered bodies. No. Actually, he might have said that people died in the fire, but he... But everybody who was at the scene was like, oh, they've been hit. Like this blunt force trauma to the back of their heads.

And he's like, yep, fire. Crazy. Yeah, they must have been backing out of the rooms and just bashed heads on the landing, I guess. It happens. Anyway. I've got a bit. Meanwhile, the bodies of the victims were examined and it was determined that the traumatic head injuries were sustained prior to or around the time of death, so they weren't killed

in the fire. That was established very quickly. The case landed on the desk of detective superintendent Martin Lloyd Evans. In his career spanning more than 30 years, Lloyd Evans had been involved in more than 50 murder investigations, and for the eight years prior to this case, he'd been working with the major crime support unit.

The day after the murder, he spoke at a press conference stating, Amanda, a devoted mother, came home with her two children at 12.30 AM. I need to know what happened after that. Three generations of a family have died and a family have been devastated by this appalling crime. They have been brutally attacked and it is important we get to the bottom of this as soon as possible.

And police determined fairly quickly as well that a fiberglass pole type thing was the murder weapon that had been used to kill the family. Friends of the family say it was like a pole that was sort of left behind by a previous tenant and sometimes the Katie and Emily, the little girls they'd play with at sometimes. It was just something that was in the house. Right. Police also believed that there had actually been two fires lit. They think one around 2.30 a.m. another at four. So this led them to believe that the first fire had been lit shortly after the murders that occurred and then the killer had returned later to set fire to the house to destroy the evidence of their crime. Right, they maybe haven't gone up quick enough. Yeah,

exactly. And they're like, well, that didn't take off. I'll go back and set another fire. They're very, very cold. Yeah, it's so cold fire can't light. Anyway, so as the police investigation proceeded, they quickly discovered a rather interesting suspect. They discovered that Mandy Power was having a romantic relationship with a woman named Alison Lewis. Alison was a former police officer, a mother of two girls herself, and married to a man named Stephen Lewis. The couple both knew Mandy Power, although Alison insisted her husband did not know of the affair happening between her and Mandy. Now this is the late 90s, attitudes towards same sex relationships were still pretty conservative, and the tabloids had a field day with reporting about a lesbian relationship between Mandy Power and Alison Lewis.

Some of the headlines were insane, one of them was murder mums, lesbian secrets. Another was mums tangled sex life holds key to family's murder. And then the tagline is vivacious Mandy Powers, 34, had embarked on a tangled bisexual love life before she was wiped out with her family. Oh my, you're telling me that UK press having outrageous headlines. But I do not believe believe that for us. Yeah, I know. It was a different time, Dave. A lot of those were quite clunky too.

Yeah, they're not struggling out my head around them. They're not clever. You know, clever UK tabloids. Okay. Okay. We could do better, but we won't. It's where better than that. Yeah, we're so good. We won't do it at all. That's right. It was it was noteworthy and Tabloid's really focused on Allison in the case because it was more dramatic and interesting. So more headlines about her were Mandy suspect in hiding from mob and the tagline, Allison did not like Lesbian lovers' kids.

It's just, oh. Just making some of it, Mandy. Lesbian lust for murdered Mandy and the Tagline. Alison Lewis and Mandy had three love-making sessions in the 36 hours before the brutal Clirarch killing. Who's giving them this intel? What? I'm guessing Alison's not saying,

I hate by the way. By the way, we had three love-making sessions in the 36 hours. Yeah. But I keep counting. Look, we got a Notre Dame de Madagascar. There we go. This symbol means love making. I need to get milk and I have a love making session.

This symbol just means boning, love free. That's right. No love, just fuck it. Yeah. You got to keep track of these things. I don't know if we've really mentioned had great Mandy Powers, this is a nine. Mandy Power, so good.

And they're not using any of that in the headline? Yeah, that's there. That's ready to go. Power of love. Power of lesbian love. Power of Mandy's that one. Yeah, that's it. See, see how much we're already better at this?

Fucking UK headline. Destructive power of, you know. Yeah. So sort of stuff. Yep, but I wouldn't do it Couldn't pay me enough unless you would pay me enough How much is enough ten bucks? I want to say I'm for sale ten bucks You got ten bucks on your own now. No, but I could transfer you ten bucks. I can carry cash That'll probably be a fee though. Yeah, but that would be on my end I don't know why he would be feeed for me transferring a money.

Well, he's often feeed. I'm a hungry boy. He's often feeed. I think I made it as much as I was using. Why would he be feeed? Okay, good point. Good point. Sorry, I had to go at you for something.

I said. Okay. Right, so they're really focusing on that. Yes. And just getting as many outrageous eye catching headlines. Exactly right. And yeah, it's a really strange one. Isn't it? And it happens all the time with like murder cases or I don't know anything kind of scandalous. The media sort of really picks it up and And it happens all the time with murder cases or I don't know anything kind of scandalous. The media sort of really picks it up and runs with it. But often they're sort of focusing on the wrong people or in this case, just like,

they're only talking about Alison because they're both women. If Alison was a man, I don't think it would have been such a fuss, you know? Yeah, yeah, you're right. But unless they're like, Alison, Mandy and man have 15 love-making sessions in 15 minutes. Yeah, incredible. He should say a doctor. And Guinness was there with a stopwatch. Well done, sir sir. So we think in Dave early on that Alison's husband did it or he's got to be a suspect? Well apparently he didn't know about it. Yeah. Why? Why is she having to say that though if people aren't starting to point the finger on one thing?

Yeah, though apparently she didn't like the kids of her, her partner. Right. So could have been her. Could have been. Yeah. Which the good thing about this is someone who's innocent had their life ruined by the papers. Yeah. Yeah. I'll always articles. I'm sure of a great for the investigation for getting to the truth, for getting to justice. Very helpful. Also, it's possible that it's the detective who turned up for 10 minutes and then didn't tell anyone. I mean, that's suspicious to me. That's weird, isn't it?

That's weird. Or it could be this killer that's on the loose pattern. Yeah, yeah, it could be somebody I haven't even mentioned yet. Not a copycat killer. Whoa, that's amazing. And I know some people are going to be like, you're being hypocritical Matt, I haven't got these papers because you're talking about it on your podcasts. But no one's listening to this. That's the difference. Those papers are out in every milk bar. Getting those podcasts in every milk bar and Swansea. No, we're in the, it's not.

It's in every second milk bar at best. Yeah, and we're working on that. Okay. We would love to be in every milk bar and Swansea. Okay? You think it's not an option. You think it's not an option. Go all of us.

We'd love to be in every milk bar. We would love to be in every milk bar. And we've put on the record, next time we're in Swansea, we're gonna visit every milpa. And we're gonna hand it over to this podcast. We still won't know how this works. No, how does it work? We gotta go. And yes, it is, you're right,

like we're talking about this story and that's not really helping that much I guess, but it's just something that happened over 20 years ago and it's not our job to investigate it but and the media jumping straight in immediately. It's very unhelpful. Really unhelpful. When an investor gays on going.

Yeah. And yeah, everything's still so fresh. Yeah. She's a beautiful. Yeah, it's pretty full on. I think maybe some people in the tabloid industry in the UK, and I would go as far to say in Australia, they have very few scruples,

or they either they have a lot of scruples or no scruples depending on what scruples mean. What's the good one? What's the bad one? It's having scruples good. Geez, you've got no scruples. depending on what scruples mean. What's the good one? What's the bad one? It's having scruples good. Geez, you've got no scruples. Is that good or bad? I can't imagine not having something ever being good.

Not having something. Do you want me to mean? Evil bones. Yeah. You don't have an evil bone in your body. Oh, thank God. Wait, no, that's bad. Hang on.

Geez, I started out confused and I got more so. I made it worse. Or you stuck the landing. Anyway, Scruples, fun words. Scruples. That's my main point. That's your main takeaway from this so far. I think having Scruples is good.

Okay. Yeah. So you've got Scruples? I'm not saying I have Scruples. I'm saying I'm up for sale. Are you Scruples? Yes, just send me 10 bucks and I'm scruples. I'm saying, I'm up for sale. Are you a scruples officer? Just to send me 10 bucks and I'm scruples. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Or say over there, heaps of scruples. I'm made of scruples. These are the freaking eyeballs. Can you say, do go on? Please do go on. Thank you so much. The documentary, murder in the valleys,

interviews Alison Lewis, who says that all the things that she'd sort of previously been proud about were being used against her. So she had a black belt in Karate. She played rugby at a really high level. She was previously a police officer herself. All of these things were otherwise be seen as achievements were now seen as reasons that she would be capable of committing the murders. So footage of her in karate classes using sticks or poles we used to show that she has experience, brandishing similar weapons. She's got like, there's video of it. Yeah.

Any videos of her in passing classes? No, passing classes. passing classes. Well that's a lot of fun. I'm like, I joined this so I can say what time does awesome class So I can't do Wednesdays and that's what I have my awesome classes I Think it has to be classes. Yeah classes awesome classes So just checking in is this this room for ascent classes? It's so fun.

What was I down the hall? Ascent classes down the hall. I'm here for level one ascent classes. Is that here today? Oh, level two. Ascent classes. It's fun. That is fun.

But no, there was no. There's no video of that. No video of that. But we, there was no video of that. There's no video of that. But we know that she did karate. She had and used weapons. Yeah, I mean, because she did karate. And she was like, quite hard.

She was like black belts. She's very good at karate. She was a police officer. She plays rugby for Wales, like, quite high up. Whoa. For the country. I think so. And they're quite quite high up. Whoa. For the country. I think so. And they're quite good at rugby.

Yeah. But all of those things are just like essentially hobbies. One of them was that she used to have a career as a police officer, but like she just has sporting hobbies and then that's being used against her. Again, probably because it's like things that tip, you know, back then were like not lady like, or not, they were like more masculine hobbies or whatever, so then it's like, she's strong and could probably kill. She's a witch. She's a witch. She's dumb. If she drowns, she's true. If she

flies, she's a witch. She drowned. All right. Next suspect. What are we gonna find a witch? The Welsh police, I just, hey, the good news is, Wales doesn't have any witches. The bad news is we lost another one. We have tried a lot of them.

But if that's the price of keeping Wales witch free. Oh, I'm sorry. you want us to just let witches roam about didn't think so. So yeah, the the weapons idea speaking of the murder weapon in murder in the valleys, friend and neighbor Louise Pugh recalled being at Mandy's house one day when the girls were playing with the fiberglass poll. And one of the girls was spinning it on the floor kind of abs and mindedly when it hit her sister on the ankle.

And Mandy was like, took it off the girls, asked the ways to get it out of the house. She's like, I put this somewhere else. So the ways took the pole out to the back of the house and placed it in a small gap next to the shed. And this was just like a week or two prior to the poll being used to kill the family. And when asked by a documentary crew if anyone had seen her put the poll there, she said that when she turned around, Alison Lewis was standing in the doorway. So Alison knew whether murder weapon was.

Right. But how do we know that she saw it? Because, uh, uh, Naiba said when she put it out by the shed, Alison was there. Gotcha. And she, and she sort of looked at it. Yeah. She saw her putting in there. So they obviously don't have this looking after each other's back for, for philosophy. Obviously not. Um, doesn't this say a lot about the nines that the kids were playing with a stick?

This is how I remember it as well. I did have a couple of dolls, but definitely sticks. Yeah, yeah. Would I trolleypoles? And a ball. A hoop. Oh, wow. Yeah.

That's a nice figure. Yeah, we had hoop money. So this neighbour, Louise, she's featured in the documentary quite a bit. She was only about 19 when their murders occurred, but she was questioned extensively by police because she was close with Mandy and her family and she lived across the road. And it's quite clear in the documentary who she believes is guilty. Louise recalls there being a time when she and Mandy could see a man standing in the back garden. I think it was late at night, it was just a guy standing in their garden. And another time, a man of the same description was seen at Mandy's front door having a heated

argument with her. And Louise isn't the only person to have seen this man. That's creepy as shit. Just standing in the back yard, looking at the house. Yeah, just standing in the backyard, looking at the house. Yeah, this guy did it. Yeah, yeah. I think we can wrap this up. He's just standing at nighttime, standing in the backyard. I'm not about at nighttime, but. I think I had a nighttime. Night time, standing in the backyard,

looking at the house. I don't know, it's also creepy. Yeah, it's gonna be hard to, it's gonna be hard to say, like, come around again. No, no, I was doing it because I was standing there thinking about a present to buy. I was at the look of the house to see what color of the paint. I should have.

I was measuring the backyard to see what size pool to buy. Yeah. I was standing there measuring it. Standing still, measuring with Mars. Yep. I reckon about three by four. Three by four what? Yep, and pool diameters.

Three by four pools, wow. It's gonna be mostly water back here. We might have to demolish part of the house. It's gonna be a big pool house now. I was trying to build some suspense. Oh, so, so, so, so. We went on a, oh yeah. I'll do it again. And Louise isn't the only person to have seen this man.

What? A young woman named Nicola Williams reported to police that she'd been driving along a nearby road at approximately 230 AM on the morning of the murder and had seen a tall man with short dark hair wearing dark clothing. She specifically mentioned a shiny looking bomber jacket. And he was carrying something new's arms, a parcel or a bag, something of like a reasonable size. Okay. Cooperating with police, Nicola produced an e-fit.

That's an electronic facial identification technique. It's a computer-based method of producing facial composites. Is it like, you know, when you make it character on a weaseport? It's a bit like, it's essentially an electronic version of like when sketch artists sketch out, you know, oh, it was around face and stuff like that, but it's just electronic. I was just a miss potato head. I was just a miss potato head.

I don't want to have accurate those things out because I've looked at your faces a lot over the years. But if you just took me into a room with an artist now and I had to describe your face, a puffing matte speed, I don't know, Jess has got like, longish brown hair. I'm turning my back to you. We should try that.

We should try that. I've been really fun. How accurate, what I get, I'm just thinking about Jess's face. No, you are just a blank hair. I think that actually says more about you than about the credibility of this Okay, fine. I think you just yeah, okay. What do I think? Can you can you can you can you can you could you imagine my face? Yeah, I absolutely can't imagine your face. I don't want to describe it because the language I would use

Not very pleasant more fucked more angular More jarring. More disturbing. You've drawn his eyes too kindly. Make it more chilling. That's chilling. Too far. Too far.

More horns. Anyway, so she produces this e-fit and that e-fit produced a face that very, very closely matched a man named Steven Lewis, Alison Lewis's husband. Oh my gosh. Very close. But how is he a very average man? And does does that person know Stephen Lewis like I know? No, so she she just saw him as some some stranger. I think so. Yeah, so I'm a few times being weird Oh, man, this is I mean, I don't want to jump to conclusions if this isn't the guy But he's really sound like he could be the guy who knows? Do you know I know oh? Oh, okay?

Who knows? Who knows? Do you know? I know. Oh, okay. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Because if they don't know and they have described him pretty accurately, that's a bit sus. But again, they've just described a man that was hanging around. Maybe he was just gone for a walk with a parcel. Yeah. Who knows? Get ready for the beautiful. Near the, just hitting away from Mandy's house. On the night. Yeah, yeah, not the motor. There's gonna have to be a pretty big twist here, or he's the guy. Or the neighbor is framing him. I love to do that in Wales. That's one thing I know about Wales. Tom Jones, Catherine Zeta Jones and frame jobs. So the frame of Steve Jobs's dad. Mr. Frame Jobs.

The effort wasn't shown to the public. The lead investigator, Martin Lloyd Evans, he didn't think this person was the killer. The investigation had shown the killer had not brought anything with them to the house to use for the murder and the signing of this person was a couple hours after the murder it occurred. So he's like, well, that's not in the public's interest to release that e-fit. It's not them. Is this guy a cop? Yeah. Is he? But the guy's, he's protecting the seagull. Yeah. Oh, okay. He's not protecting anybody. He's not protecting anybody. He's just saying it's not him. Okay. He's not this. Oh, but yes, Steven Lewis is a police officer. Yeah. Oh my Okay, and he was wife used to be one but he's a he's a police officer. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well that means he wouldn't didn't do it then. I know handover hot

Yeah, yeah, because I uphold the. Or is that a Victorian police? And we know they're squeaky clean. They're fine. They have a similar probably motto over there. Pulse the right. Don't be evil. Yeah, yeah. That was Google.

I shall not be evil. Yeah, I shall not be evil. I shall have scruples. Or not. Unless, because we're not sure what it is. Or not, in brackets or not. Depending on which we're not sure what it is. Or not. In brackets or not. Depending on which ones are good ones.

What's the good one? We could look it up. We have a bother. So yeah, he's like, no, it's not in the public interest to say that, if it. But I was the best man is wedding. I know. I know.

Months after the murder, Nicola Williams, the woman who'd seen the man and did the if it, she was asked to identify him in a police line-up. She picked out Steven Lewis. Okay. In court proceedings, the judge told the jury to disregard this, however, because Steven had an alibi. He was in bed with his wife, Alison. So that's fine. And alibi is a wake.

But the jurors were not... Maybe having a love-making session? Because otherwise, how would Alison know if you just seemed like you'd be asleep? So they'd probably hold hands or not. Oh, okay, so I didn't think about that. They would hold hands. She did say that she woke up a couple of times and like both times she woke up he was there.

Okay. And one of those times was like at four in the morning or something. So, one of the times she rolled over and he's like, oh, Steven, you feel like a second but he doesn't have a hand. Not sure why. So the court said, don't worry about this witness picking out Steven, it's not him. But the jurors were not told that the e-fit looked even more like Steven's identical twin, Stuart. Oh my god.

Oh man, why is it twist? You should eat me. And that he could not account for his movements that night. I was in bed with my brother and his wife. Actually, I lied. Some of his movements were accounted for, because Stuart Lewis was the detective inspector who arrived at the murder scene shortly after the murder,

and then left. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. You can't be serious. Holy shit. Was the detective inspector who should have been, you know, the in charge of the crime scene, who should have locked things down, who should have, that the house should have been under police

watch. Holy fuck. It certainly should have been reported that these murders were suspicious, but instead he left. Oh my god. He's whereabouts were in a cannonfall for about an hourish after that. And so when this e-fit came in that looks exactly like him, he went, this means nothing. I don't think I've ever been this shocked on an episode of Diggle. Oh, that is a sweet reveal. I'm a gogg if I'm using that word right.

If that's good. It's all bad, how did I? Isn't that crazy? Wow. So Alison and Steven were both arrested. They spent months as sort of the main suspects. Stuart was also arrested on suspicion of perverting the course of justice. Who's arresting them? Other cops. And Alison was arrested as well? Yeah. Well, because they think that

well, yeah, they suspected that maybe she had committed the murders or was an accessory to it. Stephen had done it. So they just went, we reckon it's related to this so we can arrest you all we have it We reckon it's some of you or all of you or none of you made me but you probably not yeah some of you Oh wow So yeah Stuart's arrested for perverting the course of justice a police inquiry into his behavior found He couldn't account for his movements at the time of the murder although he had been on duty He didn't write about it in his notebook until two days later and even then parts of it appeared he couldn't account for his movements at the time of the murder, although he had been on duty. He didn't write about it in his notebook until two days later, and even then parts of it appeared to have been altered.

So how do we get to this point where the court wasn't hearing about the fact that there was a twin and stuff to them getting arrested? What changed? That all happened. They got arrested first. This is in part of those court proceedings. They're saying the judge was sort of like, you can't take into consideration the e-fit. Why? Because he's got an alibi.

Right. And the alibi is as asleep. Right, but could they use the e-fit for the twin brother that looked exactly like him? Not relevant. No, it wasn't, it wasn't like, it wasn't used. Oh my God. Is this because the prosecutors, sort of, they're all still looking after each other?

Is this still in that period of... That's what we're assuming, yeah. Wow, so grim. It was pretty mismanaged in the court proceedings for sure. Right, but they were arrested. They were arrested and questioned and... Maybe they're going to get them. From John Morris again, when Stuart Lewis returned to the police station, he reported the

fire to a superior officer, but not the murders. In the police station, he made a lengthy private telephone call and was seen feeding numerous coins into a pay phone that was located in the public waiting area. Why did Stuart Lewis use a pay phone in the public area of the station to make his call when he had a private phone in his office? The telephone in his office would have logged his call, the pay phone did not. It was the only phone in the building that he could have used if he didn't want his call to be traced. Interesting. There may be heaters had too many coins. And I've got a burn through these. Are they going to expire?

Exactly. We're going to go off. You know what coins are like. That's what they got the date on the back. I've got to burn through these. Are they going to expire? Exactly. We're going to go off. You know what coins are like. That's why they got the date on the back. I've got to use up all these coins. All the money gone, I've put them in the bin. I don't know, do you want those ages? Which bin have you put them in? I just thought I'd put them in the bin.

I've had like thousands of them. I've been collecting them. They still don't know who that phone call was to. That random phone call he made. Yeah, who would it have been to? Despite the sightings of the Lewis twins, Who that phone call was to? That random phone call he made. Yeah, who would have been to? Despite the sightings of the Lewis twins, the affair happening between Alison and Mandy, the gaps in Stuart Lewis' night and his strange behaviour, none of the Lewis' were charged

and were freed from the police investigation. Oh. Well, it doesn't seem right, but we know these police get results. If anyone's going to find the murder, it's them, or find A murderer, or find anyone to call a murderer, it's them. That's correct. A few weeks after the loauses were cleared, this is about 18 months after the murder. Police interviewed a local labourer, David Morris, who had previous criminal charges for

robbery and was known in the area as a bit of a loose cannon. Any relation to John Morris? No, but crazy, isn't it? That is twin. But he's a loose cannon, David. Yeah, a little bit. He's just, yeah, he's had some robbery charges and he lived in the same area and he was

a living boyfriend of Mandy Powers best friend, Mandy Jewel, two Mandy's. Hang on, it's a living boyfriend of Mandy Jewel, okay. I don't know, I don't know why, but I imagine that he's living in the walk in robe or something for the butler's pantry. Yeah, it's his job. He's like a living man he has in his space. That's my living boyfriend. He's there when I rig my little bell. Where do you keep your living manny in a cupboard?

Yeah, it's a pretty big cupboard. It's a walk in, it's a rope. Sorry, I didn't realize it was a walk in. You're not just shoving them into it. Get in the cupboard. Anyway, so yes, the murdered Mandy awful. Sorry. Mandy power. Mandy power. Her best friend. Mandy Jewel. Great name as well. I know

But David Morris is Mandy Jewel's boyfriend. Live in boyfriend partner. Whatever. However Police were interested in talking to David because of one important piece of evidence. A gold chain found in the power household right where Mandy Powers' body was found. David Morris initially denied the chain was his. He said it was the same kind of chain he had, but that's not his specific chain. He had actually lost his a few weeks after the murders,

after the chain had broken while he was at work. He said he'd put it in his pocket and forgotten about it, and days later realized it was gone. See, that sounds like that could be a load of shit, but it also, we know this police force frame jobs for fun. They love frame in a much. They're just gonna get their man. So it really cares which man.

This feels like the kind of thing they might do. Go find a chain and go Oh might plant this Who knows in evidence Forensic testing on the gold chain found no DNA other than Mandy's blood But they did find brick dust and green paint residue and Morris worked as a laborer These little bits of evidence pointed towards him. His favorite color was green. His favorite color was green. It did match the cabinets in his kitchen. Oh, beautiful cabinets.

Eventually, he did admit that he had lied about the chain. It was his. Okay. In tapes of his police interview though, he said he knew he didn't have the best reputation and neither did South Wales police. So although he was innocent, he didn't want to admit the chain was his

because he didn't want to be linked to the murder. Yeah, you guys frame people all the time. He genuinely says like, I don't have the best reputation. Neither does the police. Do they start laughing? They're like, yeah, they don't find that funny. They don't find that funny, which is interesting. In fact, he'd asked his cousin Eric Williams to help him purchase an identical chain so that if the police questioned him, he would have a chain proving the one found at the crimes wasn't his. He could be like, no, mine's right here. But what happened to that chain?

He did genuinely lose that one. I don't think they got a chain, or maybe they did. But he had another reason for not wanting to be linked to Mandy Powers' house that night. So Morris was in a relationship with Mandy Powers' best friend, Mandy Jewel, but he was also having an affair with Mandy Powers. Oh, Mandy, how many love making sessions in 36 hours?

Incredible. I'm so impressed right now. She's gone for the record. Oh my God. You don't have a love session with Mandy Powers. You struck yourself in and filled the tears. The police alleged that Morris had gone to her house late at night, drunk and wanting sex,

and when she refused, he went mad and killed her and her family, which is pretty extreme. From the Guardian, his own story is very different. He'd been living with Mandy Jewel for seven years, but their relationship was marred by arguments which could turn violent. I mean, you're living in the butler's pantry. Yeah, it's going to cause strain on your neck and back. Where do I sleep? Mara said the worst was when she hit him on the head

with a piece of wood after she caught me shagging this girl from around the corner. I was like, okay. From the start of his clandestine relationship with power in 1998, he said his biggest fear was that jewel would find out. When power began her affair with Alison Lewis, Mara said he did stop

seeing her, not because of the intensity of the new lovers feelings for one another, but because he had been banned from driving and could not easily get to home. It wasn't that there was any bad blood between them or anything. He was just like, I just can't get there. It's logistics. Yeah, exactly. Earlier in 1999, however, he insisted they had begun talking again. They talk on the phone and they met for coffee. Talk on the landline? Yeah, exactly. Early in 99, however, he insisted they had begun talking again. They talk on the phone and they met for coffee. Talk on the landline? On the landline.

I don't know how to have an affair back then, wouldn't I? And there are also like phone records say that, like she called him a lot, like it wasn't, yeah, the backed up his story there that they were, they talk on the phone and stuff. On the 25th of June, 1999, just two days before the discovery of her body, Mora says he went to power's house in the morning while the children were at school and had sex. Before he went to her bedroom, he said he left that his chain, which had a broken clasp on her

kitchen counter. After the murders, the chain assumed a frightening significance. Maura's told his cousin Eric Williams, and he said like, if I'd murdered her, that is the last thing I'd have've done in terms of leaving the chain behind months later that conversation led to Morris becoming a suspect so it's essentially his cousin that like Dob Donemann said it's his chain and he Which isn't good When he was first arrested he lied to detectives again, he says because he was scared So on the night of the murder says Morris He and Joel had an argument at the end of an

evening in a local pub. He left alone and decided to walk to his parents' home, which was eight miles away, or 12 k's. But it started to rain when he was halfway there, so he instead went to the home he and Joel shared, getting there by 3 a.m. an hour before the killings. Yet unfortunately, this didn't really give him an alibi because he went to bed in the spare room because they had had a fight and she slept through it.

So she, I think Mandy Jules said she heard, she heard him get home and like the dogs didn't bark or anything so she was like, well that's him because they would have barked at a stranger or anybody else. So she she backs that up but because she didn't see him they're like, I can't prove it's definitely him that got home. Right. And also he's not a cop so we don't believe it. Believe it. And he's done robbery in the past so we assume it's team that murdered a family. Robert is thinking of my drug for murder. Yes. But also, yeah, we didn't see him. And if you had maybe an identikit drawing of him

that was very closely represented, resembling him, then maybe we could bring that into evidence. But you didn't see him. And that's the kind of thing we need. Unfortunate. Apart from that other one, we should. Thanks for wasting our time, man. We need it every second time.

Yeah. And this is the second time, okay. So David Morris was arrested and charged and court proceedings went ahead. So the entire case against him is based on a chain that has no DNA evidence on it, and he's lack of alibi. That's the entire case against him. Sure, you can't convict on that. There's no clear motive to commit this

horrible crime, but the prosecution told a story of an alcohol and drug-fueled psychotic rage. Despite no DNA evidence connecting him to the scene, three years after the murder of Doros, Mandy, Katie and Emily, David Morris was convicted of murder and sentenced to a minimum of 32 years in prison. However, another dodgy thing was happening. Morris's solicitor, David Hutchinson, had spent months representing both Lewis Brothers when they were suspects. So the one lawyer is representing all people suspected of this murder. So the one lawyer in this town?

All the others are in jail. I mean, frame job. So this was part of the grounds for Morris's appeal. The appeal claimed that as a result of representing both parties, Hutchinson failed to present evidence which would have been favorable to Morris. Because he's already... It's a big conflict. Big old conflict of interest. In a letter to the Court of Appeal, Hutchinson denies he had such a conflict, saying he was careful to ensure that Morris was happy

about the fact that he'd already represented the Lewis brothers and that he checked with the Law Society's ethics department. By the time Morris was charged, he said he had stopped acting for the Lewis's. But the lawyers for Morris' appeal say other important evidence wasn't given by the defence. For example, Stephen Lewis repeatedly insisted he did not know of his wife's affair until after power's death, yet Hutchinson had the disciplinary report which contained statements from two witnesses saying Stephen had known about it. If these people had been called, they could have backed testimony from Powers' neighbour, Louise Pugh, who told

the court she had heard Stephen threatening power in the weeks before the killing, telling her to stay away from my wife or I'll kill you. Oh, okay. And that wasn't allowed in court. No, it wasn't. It wasn't deemed necessary or relevant. No, because Stephen lose denied that. He's like, no, I didn't. So that's that.

So Morris' legal team made an appeal, but in 2006, David Morris was once again convicted and sentenced to life in prison. I think even more made in appeal, but in 2006, David Morris was once again convicted and sentenced to life in prison. I think even more than 32 years. Most, depending on how many of it... Yeah, this is like a shirming that he didn't do it. What a nightmare. Well, that's it, and the documentary that I was watching, it's pretty even. Like, it really, it investigates sort of both sides, but I don't know, David's not really mentioned until like episode three, and it does tend,

it felt to me like it lent a little bit towards David Morris being innocent. It's a really, and I'll get to it, it's a really divisive sort of story in the area. People are really on one camp or the other still. Oh, so that one's ever admitted it. Well, we could go. Morris' family maintained his innocence.

And as I was saying, the murders and David's conviction have been a divisive topic in the area from Wales online. Some locals still buy into the debunked theory that a former policewoman, her husband and his twin brother, carried out the killings. But retired, detective superintendent Martin Lloyd Evans, who led the investigation, is 100% sure South Wales Police got the right man. He told the TV documentary- Which wasn't that man. I have no doubt at all that David Morris is the killer no doubt at all

This case has been looked at and looked at and explored. I am puzzled why people can't see Morris for what he is Can you imagine anybody saying I'm the monster that did this this that is never gonna happen and he Does not come across super well on the docker? I have to say he's in it quite a bit But he comes across sort of defensive and dismissive. At one point, he's asked about Steven Lewis and does he think his wife having an affair is motive. And Lloyd Evans kind of goes on a bit of a rant about, of course that's not motive.

When have you ever heard of somebody doing that? That's ridiculous. That's like the fucking you talking about. Is this satire? What do you mean? Yeah, that's one of the classic ones. Yeah, and he's like, what? What a ridiculous question. Love. No.

Love's never been emotive. What? And it's gone lovers. And extra marital affair. And he even sort of words it as if like a lesbian affair isn't an affair. It's kind of like, why would a guy care about a lesbian affair? That's actually hot. That's actually hot. It was so weird. He does sort of come across like a bit defensive.

And I'm like, dude, you're not helping yourself here. Anyway, but that could just be my interpretation of it. Anyway, so yes, it's very divided. The Lewis family claims to have received more than 400 threats from supporters of the Free David Morris campaign. Alison Lewis's interview a fair bit. She comes across pretty well. I do tend to think she probably had nothing to do with it.

And she also kind of sympathizes, I guess, with David Morris' family. She's like, I can completely understand why they, you know, angry or they're upset or I can understand how hard it must be to hear people say your family did this. She's like, she's quite sympathetic, but at the same time she gets like death threats all the time from people who like like the Facebook page and find her and messenger and stuff and it's like, well, that's not how the law works. find her and message her and stuff. And it's like, well, that's not how the law works.

So, but she said, how has this happened? And 22 years later, I'm still sat here defending myself, telling people I'm not a murderer, when all I wanted to do was love her. Mandy was always kind, loving, tried to do her best all the time and enjoyed her life in her children. She had so much to give and so much to live for. There hasn't been a day when I haven't missed her.

I loved being with her and everything about her made me happy. So I tend to sort of feel like she wasn't really involved, but I'm pretty suss in her husband and his identical twin brother. Mm. Unfortunately, David Morris died in prison in August of 2021. Just a few months later, in October, a forensic review of the case material revealed that a blood-stained sock found at the crime scene and believed to have been used in the murder linked Morris to the murder.

The sock identified the presence of DNA that linked him or a male relative on his paternal side to the crime scene. So he got a twin brother? No, not that we know of. It's, and it's a weakish link. Oh, okay. I think? It's not open and shut here.

Well, that, for some people, was enough to put the case to rest. It was also like a couple months after he died. The development prompted a rare statement from Mandy's family who called on Marissa's supporters to accept his guilt. They said the loss in grief our family went through and continue to go through is heartbreaking

and affects so many aspects of our lives. No family should ever go through what we have and still do. So yeah, it's a bit of a tricky one. So there's sort of like a new head of the police and he was interviewed in the documentary and he's sort of talking about how like he's aware of the reputation they had and the lack of trust people have in the police. And so it was important, they got somebody else to do this review, it wasn't them, they're like, we need another police branch to do it. And in the documentary, they're like, we need another police branch to do it.

And in the documentary, they're like, and so is it like a pretty strong, like, thing of DNA? And he's like, you know, it's not as strong as if it was a two-week-old case. It's 20 years old, but it's as strong as it possibly could be given how old it is. But also, there's a part of me that's like, couldn't it just be his sock? Mm. Right. If I were having sex two days before, couldn't he have left a sock? Yeah. And there's DNA in it because it's his sock. Couldn't that be anybody else that?

Why didn't they find it straight away either? I was like when he used to find the sock until it just after he got it. Yeah, it does seem a bit odd. And why was it a prison sock? I think. Why was the blood tomato sauce? Yeah, the fact that it's... They waited till he couldn't defend it.

Couldn't explain his sock. Yeah, there's nobody that could explain it. I was really hoping there was gonna be a more a cleaner resolution. Well, I mean, in terms of the law, there is. Yeah. You know, they got that man. Exactly. So since David Morris' death, though, other witnesses from the night of the murder have come forward and given statements. In a 2019 BBC documentary, a former taxi driver told how he'd been driving up a nearby road,

close to the family home, on the night the power family were killed. And he claimed he spotted two men and called Swansea Central Police Station on two occasions over a fortnight and was told on each occasion he would be contacted by the team investigating the murders the claim didn't ever was. So like further down the track he was like,

oh, I saw two guys that night and he called to give a helpful tip and they're like, yeah, we'll call you back and they never did. They're relatively identical. Look very similar. Anyway, a second man, John Allen, also came forward to say he saw a man carrying a bundle that night close to Kelvin Road around 4 a.m. John Allen is interviewed in murder in the valleys as well and says, he is sure the man he saw that night was Steven Lewis. And the police interviewed John Allen

and then we're like, now we can't take his, for they came up with a reason as to why they couldn't. And he was a single strong. It's just a, he was like a taxi driver. Right. And he identified the cop twin or the other guy, other twin. Both cops. Both cops. That's right.

The husband twin. Yes, thank you. Yes cops. Both cops. That's right. The husband twin. Yes, thank you. Yes. He said it was Steve and me. But they were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, can't. So you're breaking up, gotta go. Yeah.

Yeah, it's all very murky. I was really hoping that, well, this was gonna go that that guy got out when it became clear that the twins did it or all vice versa. But it sort of still feels like there's doubt about it. Yeah, it does feel like, okay, you're the twins, you didn't do it. Why try and push away all the evidence because that now in hindsight just makes it look more suspicious, doesn't I? Especially with their links to the family, why wouldn't they be, why would you not be reporting it as murder straightaway?

It feels a bit weird to be like. Well, that's it. Yeah. And what he should have done actually, if he was doing his job properly, like I said before, he should have locked down the scene. All these steps that should have been taken at the actual scene itself, but he also should have removed himself from the case

because of the conflict of interest. That's professionally what he was supposed to do, knowing that his brother and sister-in-law friends with Mandy, it's not appropriate for him to be on the case. That's what should have happened and instead he just fucked off for a bit. And I'm sure at some point,

the thing that's hard about writing this report is that it's a lot of just like old newspaper articles, which kind of, it's those type of articles that assume you already know a lot of the information, so they don't fill in a lot of gaps. Like out of pronounced, Clific. Clific, or a book or a documentary. So there's gaps. I'm sure at some point

they were sort of like, so Stuart, where'd you go in that hour and a bit that kind of coincides with this crime happening? I'm sure that that must have happened at some point, but yeah, it feels like it never really went anywhere. And sometimes documentaries, they also have their angles. So you don't know what bias you're getting. Exactly. Like they're telling the story, they're leaving things out. Yeah. Yeah, even just like the way things are edited

in a documentary tell you what they think without them saying it. And yeah, the fact that this superintendant comes across really defensive and like he just, he's sort of like, it's David, it's David Morris. But then in looking at him, I'm like, well, I don't, I've must have missed the evidence against him.

The sock. The sock, sorry, yes. And also that thing of like, whenever you have like a cab driver or something, 20 years later being like, it was definitely him. I know. A man who's been in the paper every day for a couple of years in your town.

Yeah. Do you, I don't remember the face of the taxi guy that you've driven me here, you know? You don't have to get it quickly. Your memories of all the time. It's just the 20 years. I know. And then you see this guy in the paper,

it's easy to go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, convince yourself that it was that guy. Yeah, exactly right. And yeah, he also did a vlog at the time. So he's easy. You could just watch the vlog. And I think that as well in the interviews with like the neighbor who was a teenager at the time, you know, she's got all these really strong memories of it being Steven who was, you who was having an argument with Mandy one time or that reckon it was probably him in the backyard or but she's also

using the exact same language in terms of describing what this man in the backyard was wearing. It's the exact same language as Nicola Williams' description which it's been so long Louise has probably heard that description. And it you know what I mean? Like it's all it all gets so it gets so muddy. Oh man. So the the clinic murder investigation was the largest and most complex homicide probe ever undertaken by the Welsh police force. Owen Phillips, the filmmaker behind murder in the valleys, said this. police force, Owen Phillips, the filmmaker behind Murder in the Values said this. Those sort of things don't really happen in those sorts of communities, close knit, industrial communities.

Everybody knows everybody, it's gossipy. So when it happened, it was like an atom bomb for the whole community and all the surrounding towns and villages because of the brutality and the strangeness. For 12 months, there were no arrests. You can imagine the fear and paranoia thatess. For 12 months there were no arrests. You can imagine the fear and paranoia that was happening where people were worried about who could have committed these murders. As well as it being an interesting case with extraordinary details, I think there is a legitimate reason for opening this up and looking at it again.

One of the difficult things is separating the fact and fiction, the gossip from the truth. So there's that. And there's interviews with both families, like the Morris family are still, they have no trust in the police, which is totally understandable. They were not satisfied with the DNA evidence on the sock. They still maintain that he's innocent. And, but yeah, then on the other flip side,

Stuart Lewis has sort of said like his life's kind of ruined it's been 20 something years and he can't get a job because as soon as somebody Googles him he's linked to this murder case apart from the family obviously who who murdered at the there's innocent people other innocent people yeah yeah large room we just don't know who they are. Exactly right. Is it David Morris who's innocent? If it's David Morris who died in jail.

Yeah. It's awful. Yeah. I mean, obviously who knows, but what's his, why would he have done that? Yeah, there's no real motive for it. It's like, I mean, why would anyone have done it, but why would he, it just seems like, what's happened where they say he just lost it?

Yeah, but then there was also in the documentary, there's an interview with a guy who sort of knew David Morris and one time David Morris came in to his house and hit him over the head with something, and the documentary was like, why did he do that? And the guy was like, that's just what he does. And you're like, okay. So, but I don't know. Yeah. Who knows what the reason for that was? Yeah. It seems really, it's awful. It is. It's a tough top to bottom. It's awful. And I'm sorry, there was no fun resolution. I mean, yeah. Or satisfying. No, it was never gonna be fun.

No, I don't think it was. I think it was unlikely to be fun, but yeah, it's a wild story. Yeah, I thought you'd enjoy the twist of the identical twin. That twist was a, George dropping genuinely. Yeah, you looked quite shocked for a while, actually. I was quite proud of that.

Because I was sort of like, where do I put this in? How do I work with in? And I was hoping, amazing. Neither of you would like call me on why I haven't named the, I've named everybody else except the detective inspector. And I was just calling him detective inspector. And so funny how it's like that thing when you're doing a surprise party for someone.

Like they know. Oh my God. But I'm like, who's thinking, well, is a surprise party for me? No, they usually drive this way high. Oh my God, they know. They know. Yeah, so yeah, that was, I didn't notice you had names. Yes, good.

And if you had named them, I don't know if I would have noticed that either. Yeah. But yeah, it's a pretty, it's a, oh man. There's a wild story. It's a great documentary. If it's available anywhere, like on any streaming services where you are, murder in the valleys, it's called, came out in 2022. It's a really interesting four piece. I do a really good job of it. And yeah, John Morris has written the Clidduck murders, a miscarriage of justice as well. Great resources on it. Wow.

No relation. I think I didn't get that far into the book. Maybe he's like anti was my cousin But I don't think so. Oh my god because it was him or or relative to him on the paternal side Which is probably where Morris comes from okay? We've got it. We've got it. We've got you John. My last last chapter is a little miscarriage of justice because I Did it and I haven't finished the book and I'm like, fuck, we've got him. Turns out he admits it. That's not true. That's not true, John, if you're listening.

I'm trying to get ahead of that. But yeah, you didn't write that John, if you're listening. It's a tough thing to talk about too, isn't it? Because we can sit here and like, I don't know, go eye-recc and it was so-and-so, but like, they're people. Yeah, yeah. And they have families and it's strange, isn't it? It's an awful, awful thing.

Yes. But I am suss on the twins, I'm sorry. I think a lot of people are. But from a legal perspective, they have been cleared and are innocent. From, but they were so involved in that process. Yeah. And at such crucial times.

And also, I think at one point two. If you don't want to be a same tool of being dodgy, that's the whole reason why you separate yourself from an investigation. Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. It's just why wouldn't you have done that? That would have.

Like, you'd know that that's what you should do. Yeah, and so then. And if not, even if you were gonna be there, don't go, anyway, I'm knocking off and then not report the murders. That's pretty weird. Yeah, you would remove yourself because then people would go,

oh, but he, you know, he acknowledged the conflict of interest and removed himself. He acted professionally. That would look good in your favor. I totally agree, like 99.99%, but I can see the tiny bit where a bit like the got the Morris with the gold chain Where you go I didn't do it, but I know this looks really bad

Yeah, because the the identity kit looks exactly like my twin brother I'm gonna do everything I can to try and make cuz what on the off chance that we he gets convicted And I know he didn't even yeah, so I don't know and that was panic Yeah, all of that doesn't that make you think that there's enough reasonable doubt for both sockets almost. Yeah. And so David Morris shouldn't have been imprisoned.

Yeah. Which would have also probably not felt good for the, you know, that, and this. Yeah, for the family, yeah. We know they get results here. So that was never on the table. It's an interesting one. But yeah, at some point I also read that that Lloyd Evans, the superintendent I was talking about, he also knew Allison because they worked together many years.

I see. And these are ones saying, no, David definitely didn't. Why can't anyone see it? It definitely wasn't my friend. Yeah, yeah. It was David. Why would a man, he's wife's having a fear right? Why would a guy get mad about that?

What's the big deal? When's that ever happened? I don't recall any men getting mad. I've never seen it in a book, a film, a television show. Or in my day-to-day work, after police officer. Never, that's crazy. That's crazy. I tell you what doesn't exist in this town, domestic violence. Absolutely not. People get to have a problem like where I have it say I'm

looking up there I'm closing my eyes I can't say it anywhere but yeah that's the the twists and turns of the Kleedak murders I'm gonna chuck it up as a mystery episode yes Yes. We don't know the, obviously someone wanted to jail for it, but we don't know. Yeah. It should. That doesn't seem like the open and shut case. It feels, but that's mainly because Jess left out this really crucial bit of evidence. Because I'm creepy.

It sort of also feels like it's a bit too late for anything really substantial to change this. I mean what I mean? I would love there to be an update and they have rock solid stuff. That doesn't happen when we do this topic. I know, so I'm hoping for it, but it does feel a little too late because obviously, the family who were at home, who obviously knew what happened, they were killed. David Morris is dead. Who else, who could tell us what's happened, you know?

Almost one of the twins gets a deathbed confession. Yeah. If they did it. If they didn't do it, they'll, they'll, they'll. That would be weird to confess to anything. Yes. I know. If they do a deathbed, I told you,

I'm not taking my hands off of it. I swear. Well, I wouldn't be blocked without a murder or a mystery. Oh, we got both There you go great value from Bob it today Well that brings us to everyone's favorite section of the show Where we thank some of our fantastic Patreon supporters and if you want to get involved in this you can go to patreon.com such to go on pod and

There you can get all sorts of bonuses and rewards, Dave. Please list some of these now. Bonus episodes. I'm talking 190 plus in the back catalog at the time recording. Plus we put out three new ones every single month. You can get involved with voting for topics. You can find out about live shows and get discounts before everyone else. You can join the Facebook group, which is a lovely part of the internet. Some say the narcissist corner of the internet.

And yeah, we're creeping towards our target of doing a fourth bonus episode each month, featuring a D&D campaign, which... Campan, yeah. Campan, yeah. Which may be called... Never been. D&D go on, or... Yeah, something else, Clever.

D&D go on and D. clever do go on and D do drag on there's more done John do done John got so much do drag on and do done John so many options so many options but the first thing we like to do is people who sign up on the Sydney Sharnberg level or above get to give us a factor quote or a question or a bag or a suggestion or really whatever they like. And this section actually has a little jingle go somewhere like this. Fact Quadal Question! He always remembers the ding, hmm, she always remembers the sing, hmm, I always remember that it sounds like we did the World Watcher.

And this week I'm reading out for as I do every week and Everyone also gets to give themselves a title first up this week. We've got Nathan Lang Okay, executive of looking as if he knows what's going on Glad to have been revved Relieved of that Judy. Yeah, God you were so good at it too. Yeah, you always looked like you knew exactly what was going on convincing good at it too. You always look like you knew exactly what was going on. Convincing. He's a very good actor. And yeah, I don't read these out so I read them out. So let's just forgive myself for any sort of fumbles or snumbles. Nathan writes, long time, listen, a first time caller. For my

first fact, quote or question, I wanted to share my favorite quote from back in high school, which I wrote at the start of my first notebook right as I started writing comedy for the first time, like with every teenager who decides they want to be a comedian in high school, my favorite quote was from the late George Carlin, and the quote is, people who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point. A beautiful quote. Oh, I like that.

Beautiful quote. Pure entertainment. Nothing else. Nothing else matters. Oh yeah, which is a great James Hatfield quote. I'm looking up Nathan Lang comedy. Let's see how the career is going since that quote kicked it off.

It is also a great quote for a professional entertainer to say, isn't it? Justify through existence. No, no, no. This is the most important thing you could do with your life. Anything else? Dumb, stupid waste of time. Don't even think about it. Don't worry about sleeping or eating or

Family entertainment, baby. I think this might be a different nice and laying, but I think nice and laying is a barrister Oh wow, I mean you've got a still performing you got a perform you got to talk the talk. Yeah Fantastic and you know who entertains more Yeah, I've seen rake. Yeah picture of all to be Clever green types What's that act as I'm right? Richard Roxborough Richard Roxborough what a guy. I wasn't found in Nathan Lang on IMDB. Oh Known for the favorite stingersingers, neighbors, blue healers. Oh, sick.

Could this be it? He could be a double threat. I think that I think a lot of people in like acting in comedy also are in the law. Yep. They're gonna show me Carl. Yes. And the list goes on. Yep.

Nathan Ling. Thank you Nathan. Next one comes from Mr. Justin McCame. Please, it's a silly game. When all the kids on the straight. I like to do the same. Boo. And Justin McCain is Connoisseur of Dad's Snazes. Oh man. Is it Jurekannis? Is there something about Dad's Snazing. I do it louder than anyone. They get a real run up. Yeah, cheers.

Cheers, a lot of that for Dad's. My dad is the loudest fucking sneezes. It's like we're all experiencing the same pollen dickhead. I have a very loud sneeze too, actually. I've got a real dad sneeze on me. And Justin McCain also offering a quote writing, they call me Dr. Worm. Good morning. How are you? I'm Dr. Worm. I'm interested in things. I'm not a real doctor, but I am a real worm. I'm an actual worm. I live like a worm. I like to

play the drums. I think I'm getting good, but I can handle criticism. I'll show you what I know. And you can tell me if you think I'm getting better at the drums. I'll leave the front unlocked because I can't hear the doorbell. Beautiful quote. Beautiful quote. Beautiful quote. Again, it just sort of makes you think about what matters in life. Beying a worm. Buy in the drums. Yeah. leave in your front door unlocked. Whatever. Thank you so much, Justin McCain, fantastic stuff. Next one comes from Stephen Edmunds, aka Director of Recursion.

Anyone know what that means? Recursion? No, maybe. Excursion, recursion. Maybe he'll explain. Incurion. Incurion? That's when people came to you. Yeah, so I'm guessing a re-curse is when you go to sovereign hill again All right, so Steven who you still always give us recipes is offering it. That's a quote three quotes in a row. Can you believe it?

I mean don't get quite said. This is exciting. I feel inspired. Me too. Let's write a film. Okay. Alright, let's try to film. Alright, so here's Steven's quote. He always remembers the ding and he always remembers the sing and the way to get involved in this one is to sign up at the Sydney Shondrig level or above and then you get to give us a factor quote or a question, a braggist or a suggestion or really whatever you like. You also get to give us or give yourself a title and I read four of these at each week.

First up this week, we've got one from Chris Torres and I should say, I don't read them out until I read them out. This is Dave. No, this is fresh news for you and me. So these great supporters could put any words on my mouth, Dave. Oh my gosh. And no, I, and I refused to add them out. Whatever they say, that's not quite true. But Chris, so far, no one's ever made me say anything to offensive Dave, except

for tongue twisters, they're fun. Oh yeah, offensive tongue twisters. That was Matt Stewer with Dave Warnicki, the marathon Saint-Obsode 413. Dave, would you believe this? I have no recollection of that. Although a lot of that does feel pretty familiar. Drinking a bell. But yeah, we recorded that bit at good five and a half hours into the session. Two hours five and a half. Thank you so much, Steven, for that. No, then so grateful to be sick. You would have caught up on it by now, though. Yeah, I'm shipping a land. Yeah, yeah. The last one this week comes from Nathan Damon, who was hanging out with in Perth last month.

Nathan, you were to see Nathan Damon. Yeah. Oh god, you have a good life. The man drives the biggest trucks. Whoa. Like, they're road trains, but they're not street legal. They're only able to be driven. They're so big that they can't be driven on public roads. He drives them on huge private mind-sots. Oh, wow. And slots. Oh wow. And he has this routine

where he listens to all our podcasts at certain times of the week and stuff while he's in the truck. That's cool. Yeah, like not straight legal. Like they've been lowered. They've all got canary. They look fucking sick though. And they're gnarcer's ready to go. They're gnarcer's ready to go and they've got their subwoofer in the back is too big. That's so cool. I'd love to. Do you think I could do that job? Yeah.

I love to drive. You could... One hand, I'll find you back. I could reverse parallel. I could reverse. That'd be so fun. Yeah, imagine Nathan Damon could park like a mini bus in the TARDIS spot like it was nothing else.

But give him a mini Cooper and he'sartus spot like it was nothing else. But give him a mini Cooper and he's fucked. He's like, oh, so small. Too tiny. The knees are on his chin. Look, I would get it. So Nathan Damon's given himself the title, group dad who wants ice cream.

Me, please. Chocolate. Chip, chocolate. Chip, chocolate for me too. Because what Matt's trying to say is Mint chocolate. Mint chocolate. That's what I want too. Actually, I'm going to change my order to

I've been getting into coconut lime. Yuck. That doesn't sound right. Unbelievable. I can understand it would be beautiful. I don't like coconut. I do. So you can have that and don't get it on mine. But do you like lime?

Yeah. Then you love it. Can we wrap it with some dark chocolate? What's wrong with you today? Okay, we got a chicken. You can't go off script. Some dark chocolate? I mean, mopping. Chicken.

Bye-bye. Okay. Check it out. Someone check my. Tell me what it is. You feel all okay? Is there a set or a hat, mate? I don't know.

We talk for a living. Chip chop. Chip chop. Oh. We're well done yet. Nathan breaking the patent here, offering a fact. Okay. And the fact is, oh, it's road train related. All right!

Most of the road trains, I drive, have 98 wheels. Oh! Aaaaah! Any thoughts on that? Are there a couple of spears at least? Yeah, there's spe- oh searing wheel Oh 99 And what else what else maybe one spare is he eats a wagon wheel for a yes, that's 100

He says pause while Jess loses her shit correct Well, he's not sitting it's so many fucking wheels too, but he does say now to appease Jess those wheels but he does say now to appease Jess those wheels are mounted on 25 axles equaling 50 hubs at this point while Jess is breathing again the nerve Dave is probably thinking the math doesn't add off 50 for 90. What do we meant to believe that there's some sort of extra axle just hanging out with no wheel on it? Dave's thing just like what the fuck Get out of Dave's head. Well the wheels mounted to per hub except for the steers which are singles. So when Matt carries the one it works out. Nathan Damon knows us a little too well. Wow. And I love it. Trust me, now to make just really happy,

each hub has 10 wheel nuts giving us a grand total of 500 wheel nuts on each road train. Okay. We do have other trucks with more or less wheels, but my head hurt after working that much out. Anyway, keep doing what you do and love you all. Hey, love you too, Nathan Damon. How many flat tires do you need

before you've really got to like get in there? Oh yeah, if you lose Hey, love you too, Nathan Domingo. How many flat tires do you need before you really got to get in there? Oh yeah, if you lose one, do you bother chaining and just like just drag it along the case? Yeah. Yeah, can we do a fact-quiet or question to you Nathan? Yeah, I've got so many questions. What's your change? Like, there must be so heavy, how would you change the tire? Yeah, especially if you're out in the mind-sight and the desert somewhere. Fuck. You lost the tire, you gotta get out there and dig it out.

It sounds awesome. Do you have to climb a big ladder to get into the truck? I'm so excited for this. What, do you ever sleep in that little back? Oh, I'm obsessed with those little... Yeah, imagine it'll be huge in this one. I think I found a new patch. It's like my apartment.

I think I found a new passion. Yeah. I think I love trucks. trucks. Keep on trucking. Can you take us all out some day, Nathan? I want to have a go. That's so fun. That's probably a manual. That's a little dross, manual. Thank you so much to Nathan, Steven, Justin, Nathan. What a diverse group it was today. That brings us to the next thing we'd like to do, is think if you have a fantastic supporters, just normally comes up with a bit of a game for this,

based on the topic of the day. Yes. So what we're going to do is we are going to... It's tricky. Hold it, hold it, I'll admit it. Where got... What about... No, it all feels insensitive,

doesn't it? I was gonna say like what they left behind to the crime scene. I could have been a murder scene. It was a murder scene. Just our crime scene. What have they left behind? What have they left behind to crime

so that they didn't commit? It's just, it's a circumstantial thing going. Yeah, they've left something out. Fuck, I've left this. What did that twin allegedly cover up? No, I will go with your one. All right, if I can kick us off, I'm gonna go with from Latham in the Australian capital territory.

Thank you so much to Jessica Yo. Jessica Yo left behind. Her spoon collection. All of them. All 148 spoons. Like travel spoons? I mean, you know, like the little souvenir spoon. All of them. All 148 spoons. Like travel spoons? I mean, you know, like the little souvenir spoon. Yeah, exactly.

She's being a little... Travel spoon. Not a little fold up spoons. So being all over the world collected 148 spoons, and then accidentally left them at the scene of a bank robbery. Jessica, yeah, you couldn't have found two more spoons. That's been honest. What?

She was stopping to get some cash out to go buy two more spoons. Yeah, then left the whole collection and then the cops went, well, I mean, as now. Because it corrupts. Did you commit this robbery? It really feels like you leave such a key piece of evidence, feels like a frame job to me. Thank you so much, Jessica. I'd also love to thank from North Sandwich in British Columbia in Canada. I believe this might be Vancouver Island because Diana Chomac gave a great, who knew it question recently. Oh. Diana's a biologist and she sent me a bunch of butterfly ones. Oh, that's nice. And the real one on this episode, a few weeks back, probably a month ago, was, a few weeks back probably a month ago was,

it was, no, it was Pommigranit Playboy. It was a butterfly. It was a real butterfly. That's incredible, my gosh. The Xamad and Dusher were on and they went, well that's not the real one, like straight away. I mean, it's been ages dissecting the others, but yeah, anyway, Diana Tomek. And it's not even a good looking...

No, no, it does not leave out. It looks like a moth, it's boring. Doesn't live up to the name at all. I think that's how to try to just use it up and give it a rebrand. Pomegranate, a fun, you know, a burst of flavor. Yeah. Playboy, sexy.

Yeah, yeah, wearing it. You're not fucking most boring butterfly. So I'm making a pop or something. Yes. So maybe Diana could have some sort of, some butterfly related or... Like a big net. Oh, a big net.

Let's try to big net. What's the crop scene? A grand theft auto or someone's dolly card? There's a big net in it. So much he lived a big net. It's huge. I'd like to think that Dan is like, oh my god, he knows my profession so well.

A big net. We all carry on a big net. A big net. It's so big that to put the back seats down to fit it in. It's that big. It's a big net. Thank you so much, Dan.

And finally, for me, I'd love to thank from West Alice from WI, maybe Wisconsin, in the United States, it's PJ Moody. PJ McGranty name. PJ B Moody. Yeah, sounds like to me that that screams real estate agent. PJ Moody? Yeah, but I'm not going to PJ Moody for my- I'm trying to PJ Moody. But I'm thinking I'm probably just thinking that because of AJ Hooker.

AJ Hooker, you're the bear. PJ Moody, but I'm thinking I'm thinking I'm probably just thinking that because of a J hooker a J hooker You're the best LJ hooker. You're the best. I'm thinking of our editor a Jail would go thank you mr hooker and we'd snicker We would and rain something else a Rugby union position. Yeah, an important one. I don't know what the hook it does. PJ Moody. PJ Moody has left behind. He's contact lenses.

Oh my God. No, it's bloody loose in those things. Yeah, disposable or not. Can you get ones that aren't disposable? Yep, and yep. Okay, wow. Wow double yep. So yeah and PJ can't find, I can't say anything now. That's unfortunate. It's really unfortunate. We got to assume that their name is short for pajama moody right? I assume pajama moody. pajama moody. Maybe it's more like a, or they're more like a Peter Alexander top.

Right, Moody Pajamas. Moody Pajamas. Peter Alexander known for muted colors. Very Moody Pajamas. Yeah, yeah. Definitely don't do Christmas sets that you can also get one for your dog. For your Moody dog.

For your Moody dog. Well, yeah, I think that's, that was the gap in the market that Peter Alexander left open for PJ Moody to step right into. Do you wanna thank some for us, Papa? I would love to. May I please thank from Garden City Park in New York.

That sounds so beautiful. That sounds so beautiful. We'd love to thank Megan McCaffrey. Megan left behind their signed copy of the Lord of the Rings Whoa By Megan Megan written their name on the front page It's very difficult to say this is mine

It's not, that's your note Yes, focus, our own by Megan With your name and address and then you've signed it You think you've tried it? Yeah And then you've put your fingerprint on it I think, I get a little after your buzz There's nothing good for you Megan, which're starting there. Yeah. And then you've put your fingerprint on it. I think, I, you look after your book. There's not a good few, Megan, which we know Megan can do it.

No, I'm not Megan didn't do it, but it doesn't look good, does it? I said it wasn't my book because I knew that you draw conclusions. But I just happened to leave. It's a library, it's murder. I just happen to leave my book here. Can I have it back? Please. I was only half a third.

It's a signed copy. Why happened this? It's very valuable to no one. Okay, can I have it back please I was only half a third it's a signed copy It's very valuable to no one Thank you Megan I would also have to thank from oh we can only assume deep within the fortress of the mall Daniel H Mal Wow Wonderful. Moll. Wow, the edge of solid.

Moll. Moll. Meryl. Daniel, left behind. Hook. A hook. Wow. Has a hook for a hand.

Yes, left behind. Left behind. That's unfortunate. Which hand? A dominant hand. Left. The dominant hook. Left behind is hook.

Left behind the dominant. Left behind the dominant hook. Left behind is hook. Left behind the dominant. Left behind the left hook. Oh, that's disappointing. Yeah, and it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good because it was at a... Jack the river. Oh, a hook massacre. So it doesn't look good.

It doesn't look good. But as we said, Daniel didn't do it. It just doesn't. It just doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't look right. The rest of the man is, yeah, it wasn't me. It was just a prime job. It's a prime job. It's a prime job. The rest of the man is you're like, it wasn't me, it was the one I'm man.

Yeah, yeah. Fugitive. Good movie, good TV show. So thank you Daniel and good luck in the upcoming case. Cause you're gonna do a lot of luck. We believe you. We believe you. Yeah, better.

And I would also love to thank, now help me with this, please, is this Denmark? No, this is Denmark. I believe it is Denmark. What? Have a go at that, do you reckon? From Coven Harvin, because when the O's crossed out, I think I mean the silence.

We would say, Coven Harvin. Oh, so cool. Thank you so much, I would love to. Coven Harvin. Love to thank Hannah Hannah seven Hannah seven. This is a seven asylum. Oh, apologies Hannah seven Hannah less behind. Well, we know we've got quite a close tie

with Copenhagen and Denmark with our prince Mary God, we love our Mary. We love our Mary. We're on a little river cruise and they pointed to that, that's where she lives and I, so you know, and she didn't end up in, so for sure. Victoria, we gave her a tram. We gave them a tram for, as a wedding present. Do we? I think either Victoria or Melva did.

Oh yeah, that's cute. An old tram. What did they do? Imagine what a burden was given though. What did they do? I made a bird and with given them. What do you do with it? Scrap metal? I've seen videos because her kids are all sort of like teenagers now. I've seen videos of them just like roasting her because like she speaks Danish but like it's

obviously not her first language so they're always like yeah mum says stuff wrong. Oh my. Pate Saraya. I use my voice. You know what? You know what she's like. like yeah mom says stuff wrong it's good about it oh my it's a pain sorry I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm you know what she's like oh my god she sounds so funny how do we say no again no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no for the afternoon, she's like, nah, nah, nah, a bit of fun. I'd love to say some people now. Did we say something for Hannah?

Oh, what's Hannah left behind? So we just, well, a tram. Tram. Tram. Which is pretty, it's like, like, Hannah arrives with this tram. Everyone sees it. It's a big forklift that she needs to deliver again on.

And then you forget it, how do you forget a tram? And then you're like, oh, she's patting her pockets. Yeah. Can you use wallet, phone, tram, tram. Tram, tram. I forgot to tap on on my own tram. By the time Hannah goes back for it, everyone's dead. Yeah, because that will run out of blood to tram.

Again, not my fault. We'll end it on the witch's feet have just poking in. Okay, now you can take some people. I looked up a Copenhagen, as I talked to the intergulant, it just says get there and we can be there in a short 23 hours and 30 minutes. Oh, so within a day. See you tomorrow. That's good news. That's good news. That's less than a day's travel. God, you're a glass half. I'm kind of guy.

I love it. I would like to thank from Willoughby in Ohio. Oh my God. God country itself. Big shout out to phase four or phase one V or phase if phase four. I'm going to go for if. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive.

Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive.

Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive.

Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive. Fasive., no one would ever say that. That sounds stupid. That's ridiculous. Make that the card work. Nobody would ever think that would be how you'd pronounce that. A phase four from Willoughby, what is phase left behind?

Her lightsaber. Wow. Like, did I get it from the set of stars? No, it's like a real life. It's like a legit my god. Don't tell me they're left it at the crime scene where people were killed with the lightsaber. Yeah. That is unfortunate. No, no, they won't kill with a lot of Saber. They were killed with a

Kiber crystal to the face. Someone threw the Kiber crystal, which I think is what powers a lot Saber. Oh my God. Oh my god. Who am I talking to? Have I become the nerve? That was the nerdy assing you ever said. Oh my god, you freaking nerve. Oh, I hope I got a wrong one. I've never been so unattractive to you. I knew low. I knew low. We didn't think we could get there, but.

But you were saying that they threw the handle. That sounds face, is that what you mean? Yeah, yeah. Whatever the thing, I believe a carver crystal is important to it. I believe you. And it's just like a rock and they just, they took, they didn't know how to work it So they just picked out the rock and they chucked it out of them like in any action movie where they shoot shoot to the clip in the gun

And they go oh whatever and this throat what at the person love that love that try love to get a montage Actually, people throwing their guns. Yeah, it's on to that. I can't be bothered. I want to see I'll watch the shit I thought could you put that together? Is that phase 5? Let me know. I don't think so. Let me know.

Let me know. Love you. Love you, thanks, bye. Oh, that's what, OK. Next I would like to think. So I was just looking at what the next one is, because it's written as from Bruce TWP. Oh, that's a place.

In Michigan. Not to live in Bruce. It's Bruce township Which I love so much holly shit. That is right up there with Gary Bruce township Bruce and you know what comes up when you first Google it on maps Blake's orchard and cider mill. Ah, that sounds beautiful. All right. It's on the list When we end up on this tour can we get a Bruce at it to the list. I think I'll be in America right now as the sips are comes out. It's exciting. What are you doing? Maybe I'll be in Bruce. You'll be in Bruce. The largely, oh, Vegas. The largely rural township is home to the Ford motor

company Proving Grounds. Oh, great. That's also home to great. And it's also home to. Oh, it's also home to. So, I got so distracted by Bruce there. Sawyer Hall. It's a great name. Okay, you definitely switch things around. I think Bruce is from Sawyer Hall. Sawyer, Sawyer Hall.

Sawyer. Sawyer. Water. Sawyer. Tom Sawyer. Water. What? The Sawyer. Water. What? That's what I call Friday. With it.

Tom Sawyer. It's so good. I've learned all of my American accents from PBS Podcasts. Whatever they call them. This American Lies. I don't think that's how they call them. What are they calling? This American life. Oh. This American life. I don't think that's how they talk. That's how they talk.

That's the surfing addition. So I saw your haul that's left behind a rowing aw. Oh, why? I thought it was carrying it. Okay. And then you know, the explosions started going off so they dropped it.

Of course. Yeah. But it does look a little bit suspicious now. it. Okay. And then you know it's explosions started going off so they dropped it of course Yeah, but it does look a little bit suspicious. Yeah, wow because it's just an all yeah people like why do you have that in the city? Yeah, we have to have in Bruce township fucking know your business And then because of that attitude they keep saying none of your business rather no comment to say none of your business It makes them look guilty. Yeah, honestly. So yeah, just say no comment Who's so his lawyer is but they they're terrible. So is loyal. So is Louis sucks. But on your soil. And finally, I would like to thank all the way from Eland, Wisconsin. Picture that out to Ava. Ava. Ava has left behind. Well, let's do one of the three ways. Yes!

Let's do three ways. Let's do a three way. Even though we've been here, we'll have a three way, then we'll come back and we'll finish this show. You've never been less attracted to you. We'll still try and go about. We've never made less attracted to you. This way, I'll look at your backs. Okay?

You don't have to look at me there. Just don't look at me. We're getting a circle. What we're doing. We're getting a semi circle. You're looking at our backs That's I'm gonna Look Get that each out of my mind you can look at my back. You're like you're looking at the wall. I feel sick Okay, what is it a word of time? All right, and that's an object. I'll finish it off. Okay. You're gonna finish it off?

I'll finish it off. I'll finish it off then I'll come back. What's happened? All right, and we're back. That was fantastic. Okay, now for some, speak to yourself. I'm just, I think, I think I got a good time. That was a bit of fun.

What a great love session. Love making session. Love making session, that was. bit of fun. What a great love session. Love making session. Love making session, that was. This is awful. Apologize to anyone eating their corn flakes. Spin across the room. All right. Flanj.

I'm going to give it a green. Source pen. Flanj. I'm gonna give you a green sauce pen Flap We've never been close after that quick break Wow, you've left behind a green sauce There's questions on the cops man, what the fuck is this? I was like it's a new invention actually. It's a great source for flat-tune.

Oh, if you have to ask. Thank you so much. I have a Sawyer Phase IV, Hannah VII, Daniel Megan, or Megan, PJ, Diana, and Jessica. And the last thing we need to do is walk on a few people into the trip ditch club. This is a very exclusive club where people who have been sign up on the shout out level or above for three straight years get shouted out, they get welcomed into this club.

They're allowed to come in, they're not allowed to leave. It's like a one-way flange. What is a flange again? Anyway, so... I think it's a thing. A fruit flange, so many of you. So dessert. That's a no, it's a...

I can't describe, but it's like a little thing, like a... Anyway, so people who have been signed up for three years straight... You used to connect pipes with each other? Yes, there we go. And they, um, and we always, a welcome minute, you know, the men's, bit of theater of the mind. I'm sending the door, got a velveteer, I left it,

call out their name, Dave's on stage. He's hopping him up, Jess is hopping Dave up. Dave does the hopping with a bit of a weak word play. Jess is behind the bar as well. Nobody comes up with a little treat. Yep, we've got the Welsh cakes and Welsh whiskey. Oh, fantastic.

Well the combo. What a beautiful combo. Breakfast and champions. And Dave, you normally book a band. You never gonna believe it. What? I have been trying to get this band in front of a long time.

One of my all-time favorite bands. All the way from Wales. What? Super furry animals. Like, here tonight. Oh my God. I didn't brush my hair. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. So are we ready to go? Ready. It's quite a few days. We're ready to go. Oh my gosh, how many were lost? Nine.

We got nine. Here we go. No, I'm feeling fine. Sorry, I just want more. He's on already. He's hot, let's go. From Tacoma in Washington in the United States, it's Sarah Castaneda.

Let me walk you me in with some castonets. Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr in Washington in the US, it's Catherine Conrad. Puttin' the ride in Conrad, it's Catherine! Woo! From Address I Know, can only assume from somewhere deep within the fortress of the moles, it is Cube. It's Cube! Looks like based on their email, their initials are MK. MK, my kind friend, Cube! Yeah, the my dude!

Yeah, Cube, but I was gonna say before you said the MK, which I was saying to work something in there. I was gonna say something like, um, I love you on all sides. Oh, yeah. It's so good! MK, your ultra- It's so good! Uh, for my affection. Um, from-

Shut the hell up. From Smithfield in North Carolina, Quickfront. In fact, that is where Venus fly traps are from. Not fun. In the United States, please welcome into the club. From Smithfield in North Carolina Quickfront Fact, that is where Venus flytrap's from. Not fun. In the United States, please welcome into the club. It's Brian Siddle or Siddle. Brian Siddle.

Oh, the night we're starting to idle, but then Brian Siddle came along, really got us up a gear. Let me sidel on up next to you and get you a drink. From West Valley City in Utah in the US. Please welcome in Ben Robinson. Oh, West Valley City, born and raised. Ben Robinson, here for a day. Woo! Also 10 out of Ben. Whatever.

Yeah. Ben, attend. Whatever. From address I know, can I only assume, as well, in the fortress of the malls, it's David. Takes one to no one, David! LAUGHTER LAUGHTER Yes. David!

Yes, David. I'm just, I'm, I'm wary of not, um, outing anyone's full name, just they've written a past one's on purpose, but his email address, uh, surname is with a peep. Oh, his email address is, it's a D dot P. Dave's already done it and he's nailed it. I'm just making sure that David knows who we're talking about because he's from the fortress of the moles. Yeah, it's just David, a boring name. So anybody could have, you know, it's David, David, David, let me pick that up. David P. P.

Thanks so much. Also from deep within the fortress of the moles, please welcome in. I don't think I'll need to give any more info because I think they'll know who they are. It's Tampolonia. Tampolonia's Monk. It's like the Daska. Tampolonia's Monk.

And then getting funky with Tampolonia's Monk. Okay. Okay. Well, feel the funk with Tampolonia's Monk. There you go. There you go. Thank you so much. Please welcome in from Cork in Ireland. It's Kean Griffin.

I know, I love how you knew that I was, what my eyes were asking. Kean, it's always a pleasure to see him. Oh, that's good. And finally, from Bendigo here in Victoria, it's Matt Allen. Matt Allen. Some of the key to my heart, you're the Allen key to my heart. Oh, you're the Allen, that's sorry. It's Matt Allen Matt Allen Some of the key you the key to my heart you the Allen key to my Sorry, obviously takes Matt to know Matt and you think he'd my

Walk over to the club Matt must try stand up What we're gonna call Matt key Ke and Teblonious, David, Ben, Brian, Q, Katherine, and Sarah, Osara. That brings them to this. So anything we need to tell people before we wrap this up? That we love them, that they can suggest a topic. Anytime. And all of these topics through block, things that have been suggested to us and then voted on by our listeners. So you don't have to be a Patreon to suggest a topic. You can just do it. It's incredible to think with this episode, only one person suggested it.

And still, you can be the only one of the world to think of a block worthy topic. Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't normally happen. No. Usually we're rating out a bunch of names. So incredible. So it's a suggestion to say.

Pretty amazing. So yeah, there's a link in our show notes, and you can also go to our website, which is dogo on pod.com You can find info about live shows there suggest a topic Buy some merch whatever you want to do and you can follow us on social media at do go on pod Davy bird at home. Hey, we'll be back next week with another fantastic episode. That's my guarantee guarantee. But until then also thank you so much for listening and good bye!

Oh, baby! Why are you waving? We got a camera in here now, huh? A security camera.