Do Go On - 418 - The Clydach Murders

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

It wouldn't be Block without some true crime, and this week we talk about the biggest police investigation in Welsh history - the Clydach Murders. This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 07:35 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSupport the show on Apple podcasts and get bonus episodes in the app: http://apple.co/dogoon Live show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/ Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-02-09/the-true-story-of-the-clydach-murders-wales-biggest-police-investigationhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/23/ukcrimeMurder in the Valleys , 2022The Clydach Murders; A Miscarriage of Justice by John Morris https://news.sky.com/story/i-became-the-devil-trauma-of-the-woman-wrongly-suspected-of-murdering-an-entire-family-in-clydach-12527037https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/shadow-one-wales-worst-ever-19264258https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-08-20/man-convicted-of-the-clydach-murders-has-died-in-prison-it-has-been-announced Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serengy Amarna 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. Oh, and welcome to another episode of Do Go One. My name is Dave Wonki and, as always, I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins. Gidey. Goody there, mateys.

Hello, Cobbys. Hey, cobs. Hey, bloody great to see you. So good to be in your presence here today. Hey, quick question. Yeah? How bloody good is it to be alive? Well, I wish I was never bored.

And I'm true blue. Hey, rip, rep, wood chip. Turn it in a paper. Here we go. I regret starting this. She's me, you, and I'll keep it that way. I just say that Aussie phrase, razor blades, pizzeria, and I'm in. Bajeroya.

Happy continuation of block. What a block it's been so far. It's been maybe the biggest block of all time. Do you reckon? Hmm. I guess it depends on how you measure that. Yeah. How would we measure block?

Block bigness. Let's just assume it is. That's vibe, I think, mainly. And it can only get bigger and bigger each year, right? The vibe is as big as it's been. Yeah. Okay. You can't say that at home dear listener, but they heard it, though.

That was the loudest. That was the loudest tition that's ever existed. I mean, the best bit is not going. It's the best vibe it's ever been. Small lull, as I like wipe my dripping nose. No. Block nose vampire. The vibe is huge. It shouldn't be the opposite of that, really, wouldn't it?

Yeah, I guess so. Unblock phone. Okay, whatever. But people don't know what block is, Jess. What is it? It is. It's the, oh, wow, I mean. That's the most wonderful time of the year.

That's what it is. You know what I mean? That is so well put as a question. All right, no, start listening what it isn't. It's not Christmas. Oh. It's not Valentine. Day. It's not Labor Day. But also it's all of those things. It's all of those things, yet somehow

none of them. Okay. Block is where our wonderful listeners vote on a bunch of topics. These are the most requested, most voted on topics. So they are always absolute blockbuster episodes. They're big stories. They're fun, wild, murdery sometimes. They can be anything, but they're the most voted on. And it's always, you know, it's supposed to be October. We've annexed November, and it's a beautiful time of year. Block tober November. Yeah. This is the block tofa grace period. It's blockbuster tober. It's everything you want it to be and more. That's right. Whether you want it to be or not.

And Jess is about to report on one of our most voted for topics of all time. I'm already puffed from trying to explain what block is. Sorry, I forgot that you'd also have to be the one who does it. I should have really handballed that one to Matt. Sorry about that. I think I did really well. You're doing it all. Well, and you choosing the podcast on a treadmill, I think is backfiring. Got to get my steps in. I got a little walking pad under here. I'm walking. Yes, I've got a topic to tell you all about today. And I have a question to get onto that topic. Fantastic. Matt and I, before we recorded, admitted that we've both forgotten what you're going to talk about. So this is a

genuine answer. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, we have, because obviously we had to like, We tell you all the votes. We know what the top numbers are. I've got no idea. They're written down somewhere where we can all access it and I haven't looked at it. Like, I never know what it's going to be. It's exciting.

But yeah, it does mean this is still a surprise. Okay, here we go. Okay, the question is, Catherine Zeta Jones. Wales. Michael Douglas. Rob Bryden. Wales.

And Bonnie Tyler were all born where? Wales. Correct. I'm going to stick with Michael Douglas. It is Wales. How did I get that right? Because I said Catherine DeJones. Okay.

Wow, that is pretty incredible. Yeah, very impressive. I don't, I have no recollection of Wales being on this. Wales is correct, but it's not the answer I was looking for. Oh, Cardiff. No. Ooh. Can you name any other area in Wales?

South Wales. North Wales. Old South Wales. Okay. You got like... New South Wales. South Wales is, yeah, that's... kind of correct. Let's think of like a, um, a bird. Like my dog's name is,

go think of another, a similar type of bird. Swan Swan. Swanzy. Swansy! Matt Stewart with the win. This has become like a free-flowing, like whatever comes into your mind. Well, it was a really hard question to write. It wasn't the most relevant, um, because this is a report, a famous murder in the general area of Swansea. Okay, I was thinking, Swansea made the time. The history of the Swansea Football Club?

No, this is the sixth month voted for topic for Block, and it's the Cliddach murder. Right. Yeah, I'm glad you know. I would not have remembered that. I'm just looking it up. It had, oh, it only just snuck over the last few weeks, 27.38% of the votes. Oh, I mean, I think our listeners love murder. Murder.

Yeah, they love a bit of mystery and intrigue. And this was actually suggested by one person from Swansea, a long-time listener, Seri John Jones. Oh, yes. Kerry John Jones, thank you. Kerry gave Dave and I some cookies. Am I thinking of the right person? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Is it cookies? It's not cookies. So traditional Welsh. I think that would be the most brutal way to describe whatever they were. But they were fantastic. They were like Welsh. Welsh bunnies or something. You know, they would have had a fun name like that.

Cool. Probably not bunnies, but. Yeah, Kerry John Jones, long time listener. Welsh breakfast cake? Welsh cakes. Welsh cakes. Well done. Bunnies was, to be honest, miles off.

What'd you call it? Cookies, you idiot. And they were delicious and we ate them the next day for breakfast. We did while we were going to see the Bristol clock with two different times on it. God, you guys know how to party. And Dave waited in the car while I ran and had a look at it. We couldn't get a party. That's how.

In demand, this clock is... So you thought, I'll just do some loops. You go, have a look for both of us? And don't worry, the cameras were rolling, and eventually we will put out that tour video, so people can see that moment caught on film. Wow. Because it's like, the clock is only like 15 or 30 minutes behind.

10? 10 minutes. I think it's 10. Anyway, find out more about that in our upcoming travel documentary of Bristol. Can't wait. I'll be watching that. Anyway... But only one...

So Kerry's the only one to suggest this. Incredible. I think I suggested a while ago. But yeah, it carries from Swansea, so, and it's quite a sort of, it's a famous story in Wales in particular, but obviously in this general area too. It's very well known. So it got the votes probably based mainly on the word murders. I think so, yeah. But it's a, it is a really interesting case. And I would love to tell you all about it if, if you don't mind. Please. Do you go on. So at approximately 12.30 a.m. on Sunday, the 27th of June, 1999. 24-year-old Mandy Power got out of a taxi with her daughters, 10-year-old Katie and 8-year-old Emily, and walked up the steps to the front door of their home in Clitic Village in Swansea in Wales.

Four hours later, at 4.30 a.m., Robert Wachowski heard banging and smashing noises and looked at his bedroom window to see white smoke billowing from the rear of Mandy's house. Oh, my God, new Pope. I was also thinking new Pope. Does that mean new Welsh Pope? New Welsh Pope. You don't remember this? The Welsh Pope. He initially thought someone had set fire to a bag of rubbish, and he grabbed the phone and called Mandy's landline. No answer, so we tried her mobile.

But again, no answer. Love that. Having your neighbour's numbers, those are the close-knit community. I've got no neighbour's phone numbers, and I like it that way. That also dates this to 1999, calling the landline first. Yeah. And then the mobile. There was only a brief time where you would call, you would even have both options.

Yeah. And you'd call him in that order. Yeah. It was always landline first. But also like, it does make sense, I guess, doesn't it? Because the landline's going to wake up the whole house. Right. But then you might call through and be like, oh, someone's on the internet.

Yeah. They're on Netscape. Beautiful sounds. Also showing at our age by having that nostalgia. So he can't get it through on the phone. I still have dial-up. He ran across the road, started banging on the front door, shouting for Mandy to wake up.

Around the back of the house, he saw that the kitchen was aflame. Another neighbour, Donald Jones, had joined him outside now and the two men continued to bang on doors and shout and try to alert the occupants of the house. Another neighbour had called 999 and firefighters were quickly dispatched. The firefighters assumed they'd be dealing with a pretty straightforward house fire, but conflicting reports were coming in as to whether the occupants of the house were inside. They didn't know if anybody was home or. So shortly before the fire engine arrived, controllers confirmed that there was probably at least one person inside, Mandy's bedridden

80-year-old mother, Doris Dawson. They're like, chances are she? hasn't popped out. So we reckon Doris's home. Because she's bed ridden. Yes. That means just always in the bed. That's right. Sort of Grandpa Joe style. Yeah, but give her a golden ticket. Give her a golden ticket to a chocolate factory. She's clicking her heels out of there. More than 10 firefighters that arrived and they jumped into action. The layout of the house was explained to them quickly by one of the neighbours. They said the stairs were just inside the front door on the right and the bedrooms were all upstairs. So Hugh Thomas, he's one of the firefighters, he explains in this documentary called Murders in the Valleys, which I murder in the valleys,

which I fall back on a lot because it's a really great resource for this story. So he's explaining that he kind of felt his way up the stairs on his hands and knees because the smoke is so thick, you can't see. So the firefighters are sort of kind of crawling up the stairs. And as he reached the landing at the top of the stairs, he did a bit of a sweep of the floor in front of him with his arm, and his hand swept over a body. He realised it was one of the little girls. They carried her downstairs and out of the house and tried to resuscitate her. Quickly after the other child was found and then the mother, and for several long minutes, firefighters worked on the family giving CPR. A team of paramedics arrived within minutes and took over, although they could quite quickly tell that there

was very little hope. Paramedic Barry Pierpoint later said it was quite obvious that very serious injuries had been sustained. All three of them had signs of serious head injuries and the paramedics were unable to save any of them. Right. It's not just the fire then. Yeah. Jesus. I was really hoping that family were going to be the murderers. Yeah. Family and murderers. Yeah. That would have been a fun story. One could only hope. One of the firefighters, Neil McPherson, re-entered the house to search for any more casualties. By now the fire was somewhat under control and the smoke was less dense and in an upstairs bedroom he found the body of Doris Dawson still in her bed. She too had suffered facial and head injuries. It was incredibly clear to everyone present that this fire was no

accident and that this family home was now a crime scene. Author John Morris, he wrote a book about this and I use him a little bit as well. So he wrote, when police constable Alison Crew arrived at Kelvin Road, she immediately realised the seriousness of the situation and radioed her senior officer detective inspector, who was also on duty that night. The detective inspector was an experienced police officer and had been a member of the South Wales Police Force for more than 20 years. When he arrived at Kelvin Road, his seniority effectively placed him in charge of the crime scene. Police constables told him that the victims had not died as a result of the fire, but from injuries inflicted. Three of the bodies were still laid out on the lawn in front of the house. This was a

multiple murder and demanded the highest level of priority and immediate action. But the house was still on fire and the crime scene was overrun by firemen whose primary concern was to make it safe and minimise risk rather than to preserve evidence for use in any future criminal proceedings. That's tricky. Now, as we said, the detective inspector, he's an experienced detective. He knew the steps needed to be taken in order to preserve evidence so that a criminal investigation could begin.

But for reasons known only to him, the detective inspector took none of these steps, and only spent about 10 minutes at the crime scene before leaving. I might have had plans. At 4.30 in the morning. Yeah, I've got plans to go back to bed. Can this wait? I mean, they're gone. I'll be back. So a bit of further context here, again from John Morris.

So he writes, between 1980 and 2000, South Wales Police gave an entirely new meaning to the expression, trial and error. Of all the police forces in Britain, South Wales police had been responsible for some of the worst miscarriages of justice in the United Kingdom. By the time of the clinic murder, no fewer than nine earlier murder investigations by the force had proved to be miscarriages of justice, and 19 people had been freed after being wrongly convicted of crimes they did not commit. Oh, wow. Is that because they turn up and they go, get the vibe for about 10 minutes and go, reckon that guy did it.

I'm going back to bed. Yes. Yeah, so it's not, it's incompetence, not, they're not trying to, they just want to get it done and they don't care who they're putting away. Right, so not corruption, it's just in comments, yeah. Is that right? Oh, it's good, a bit of both. Well, John goes on to say, had their trials been conducted before 1967 when the death penalty was

abolished, those individuals would have been hanged. Whoa. So there's 19 people wrongly convicted. Hard to undo that. Yeah. Many miscarriages of justice were caused by wrongdoing on the part of. South Wales police detectives. Evidence was routinely altered and fabricated.

In some cases, detectives wrote statements themselves and then forced suspects or witnesses to sign them. Is that because they got the vibe that they'd done it? And they're like, it'll just be easier if you give us some evidence to prove this. Yeah. If you could just give us some evidence, that would actually make my job so much easier. I'll write the evidence. You just sign the evidence.

Yeah, that's right. It's my dad's birthday. So if you can just admit it now, I'll still make. I want to go back to bed. I'll still make it in time for cake after I've gone back to bed had a full day and then make it on to do it. Yes, my dad's birthday tonight.

In other cases, suspects were tortured, bullied or simply worn down by lengthy interviews into making untrue confessions. Oh wow, they were so bored that they confessed to a murder. Oh, fuck this. I'm so bored. Vulnerable witnesses were leaned on

to make false statements implicating an innocent person in a crime. Others were bribed, some intimidated. Prisoners serving time in jail were offered deals in return for signing false statements, and some detectives planted incriminating evidence where it was certain to be found to frame innocent suspects for crimes they hadn't committed.

I'll say this about the Swansea Police. Their methods were unique, but they got results. They sure did. Yeah, so it's a bit of, it is a bit of incompetence. It is like, it's really more about, like, it looks good on them to get, convictions to like arrest people to solve cases so they just... They got KPI.

Exactly right. So they just do that. But also, John Morris goes on to say, if framing an innocent person by police officers sworn to uphold the law was not bad enough, another custom that flourished within the ranks of South Wales police was equally corrupt. This was the sinister practice of watching one another's backs. It ensured that a fellow police officer would escape the consequences of wrongdoing no matter how serious the misconduct or criminal their actions might be.

So they also sort of covered each other up a lot. You'd have to get into a circle otherwise, because it was just two of you. I could watch your back, but you cannot watch mine. Like one of those massage circles. They're all just going each other's shoulders. Wow, a congen a line of massaging. Wow. That's a dream party scenario.

But how are you watching each other's back in a circle? Because I'm watching your back, you're watching Matt's back, and it keeps coming around to someone's watching my back. So you're all facing each other. Collectively, you're watching each other's face. It could just be a long line. Why does it have to be a circle? Oh, because...

Because if I'm in the back of the line, no one's watching my back. Unless we have a complicated system of mirrors, like we go to like a house of mirrors. Oh, yeah. House of mirrors could work, or you could do it like they do on... You know, in the velodrome, the Olympic cycling, that guy at the front always drops off and goes to the back. So someone, if you're not, every...

You know, they're not watching your back for 10 seconds. Yeah, but soon someone will be watching your back. It's a... You're vulnerable. Yeah. For that 10 seconds. That's true. That's really, that's going over the top of the trenches, you know?

You're vulnerable. You're in no man's land. But it also, that's you proving that you're worthy of someone to watch your back soon because you've done it for them. But if I was the enemy, I would just sit there, a little sniper rifle, picking them off. At the back. The good news is, as you go over the trench, I will be watching your back as you get shot down. Okay.

So you'll be watched the last second. He died a hero. I saw it. Oh yeah, that does feel nice. As long as you watch. my back running away from the battlefield. Yep, a hero. Hero.

Look, I got him just hide this statement. Saying, I'm a hero and Dave didn't do it. Sounds like it's the old footballer's code in the AFL where they'd go to the tribunal and some guy's been knocked out and he's at the tribunal with a broken face and he goes, yeah, no, I didn't feel a thing. No, I don't think he did anything. They don't really do that anymore. Now they'll be like, he hit me Rob.

There's a lot more cameras now too. But that's the day, they're like, oh, no, I'm fine. I'm absolutely fine. I have wired my jaw shut for other reasons. That's fashionable. Yeah. I try to get a more snatched jaw line. So, yeah, that's just a bit of context about, like, the lack of trust that people had in the police at the time as well.

Because a lot, yeah, 19 people in a not that long period, 20-year period. And the population's not huge. There's not millions and millions and millions. of people there. Like this town or like, yeah, the area was a population of like 7,000 people. Everyone would have known someone who was wrongly put away. So they don't have the best, the police don't have the best reputation. Meanwhile, there's one murderer going around doing them all.

And he's going on, this is fantastic. I love this. This is the best day ever. The best day ever. And then the cops have to be like, wow, a 19th copycat killer, but we got him. Wow. People in this town are obsessed. with copying this killer.

Same M.O. and everything. Same fingerprint. It's what? They're so good. So back to that fateful day, 27th of June, 1999. When the night duty officers ended their shift at 6 a.m., they made their way back to police headquarters and handed in their reports to the duty officer. And it was only then, two hours after the crime had first been discovered,

that South Wales police realized they were dealing with a serious crime. Because remember, the detective inspector, who spent 10 minutes there, he'd reported a fire, but hadn't said anything about the deaths. He didn't pass on the fact that there's four murdered bodies. Nah. Actually, he might have said that people died in the fire, but everybody who was at the scene was like,

oh, they've been hit, like this blunt forced trauma to the back of their heads. And he's like, yep, fire. Crazy. Yeah, they must have been backing out of the rooms and just bashed heads on the landing, I guess. It happens. Anyway.

Gotta go to bed. Meanwhile, the bodies of the victims are examined, and it was determined that the traumatic head injuries were sustained prior to or around the time of death, so they weren't killed in the fire. That was established very quickly. The case landed on the desk of Detective Superintendent Martin Lloyd Evans. In his career spanning more than 30 years, Lloyd Evans had been involved in more than 50 murder investigations, and for the eight years prior to this case, he'd been working with the major crime support unit. The day after the murder, he spoke at a press conference stating, Amanda, a devoted mother, came home with her two children at 1230 a.m.

I need to know what happened after that. Three generations of a family have died and a family have been devastated by this appalling crime. They have been brutally attacked and it is important we get to the bottom of this as soon as possible. And police determined fairly quickly as well that a fiberglass pole type thing was the murder weapon that had been used to kill the family. Friends of the family say it was like a poll that was sort of left behind by a previous tenant and sometimes Katie and Emily, the little girls, they'd play with it sometimes. It was just sort of something that was in the house. Right.

Police also believed that there had actually been two fires lit. They think one around 2.30am, another at 4. So this led them to believe that the first fire had been lit shortly after the murders had occurred and then the killer had returned later to set fire to the house to destroy the evidence of their crime. Right. and maybe haven't gone up quick enough. Yeah, exactly. And they're like, well, that didn't take off.

I'll go back and set another fire. Well, they're very, very cold. Yeah, it's so cold. Fire can't light. Anyway, so as the police investigation proceeded, they quickly discovered a rather interesting suspect. They discovered that Mandy Power was having a romantic relationship with a woman named Alison Lewis.

Alison was a former police officer, a mother of two girls herself, and married to a man named Stephen Lewis. The couple both knew Mandy Power, Although Alison insisted her husband did not know of the affair happening between her and Mandy. Now, this is the late 90s. Attitudes towards same-sex relationships were still pretty conservative, and the tabloids had a field day with reporting about a lesbian relationship between Mandy Power and Alison Lewis.

Some of the headlines were insane. One of them was murder mum's lesbian secrets. Another was mum's tangled sex life holds key to family's murder. And then the tagline is, vivacious Mandy Powers, 34, had embarked on a tangled bisexual love life before she was wiped out with her family. You're telling me that UK press having outrageous headlines. But I do not believe that for a session. It was a different time, Dave. A lot of those were quite clunky too, weren't you?

Yeah, I'm struggling out my head around them. They're not clever. You're not clever UK tabloids? Okay. We could do better, but we won't. No. We're better than that. We're so good we won't do it at all.

That's right. It was noteworthy and tabloids really focused on Alison in the case because it was more dramatic and interesting. So more headlines about her were Mandy suspect in hiding from mob and the tagline, Alison did not like lesbian lovers kids. It's just making stuff up, maybe. Lesbian lust for murdered Mandy and the tagline. Alison Lewis and Mandy had three lovemaking sessions in the 36 hours, before the brutal clitor killing.

Who's giving him this intel? No, come on. I'm guessing Allison's not saying, hey, by the way. By the way, we had three lovemaking sessions. That's what I call them. In the 36 hours. Yeah. I keep count.

Look, I've got a nut a denadero. Here we go. Yep. This symbol means love making. I need to get milk and I had a love making session. This symbol just means boning love free. That's right. No love.

Just fuck it. Yeah. You got to keep. keep track of these things. Yeah. Have we, I don't know if we've really mentioned how great Mandy Powers is as a name. Mandy Power.

So good. And they're not using any of that in the headline. Yeah, that's there. That's ready to go. Yeah. Power of love. Power of lesbian love. Power of Mandy's husband.

Yeah. That's it. See how much we're already better at this? Fucking UK headlines. Destructive power of, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's all sorts of stuff.

Yep. But I wouldn't do it. No. Couldn't pay me enough. Unless you would pay me enough. How much is enough? Ten bucks? Honestly, I'm for sale.

Ten bucks? You got ten bucks on you right now? No, but I could transfer you ten bucks. I don't carry cash. That'll probably be a fee though. Yeah. But that would be on my end. I don't know why he would be feed for me transferring him money.

He's often feed. I'm a hungry boy. He's often feed. I think I may have as much as you saying, why would he be feed? Okay, good point. Good point. I'm sorry I had a go at you for something I said. Okay.

Right. So they're really focusing on that, on this part, and just getting as many outrageous eye-catching headlines. Exactly right. And yeah, it's a really strange one, isn't it? And it happens all the time with, like, murder cases or, I don't know, anything kind of scandalous. The media sort of really picks it up and runs with it.

But often they're sort of focusing on the wrong people or in this case, just like, they're only talking about Alison because they were both women. If Alison was a man, I don't think it would have been such a fuss, you know? Yeah, you're right. But unless they're like, Alison, Mandy and Mann have 15 lovemaking sessions in 15 minutes. Incredible. He should see a doctor. And Guinness was there.

With a stopwatch. Okay, well done, sir. So we're thinking, Dave, early on, that Allison's husband did it? Or he's got to be a suspect? Well, apparently he didn't know about it. Yeah. Why is she having to say that, though, if people aren't starting to point the finger? I'm wondering.

Though, apparently she didn't like the kids of her partner. Right. So it could have been her. Could I mean, yeah. Which is the good thing about this is someone who's innocent had their life ruined by the paper's. Yeah. All these articles, I'm sure, are great for the investigation for getting to the truth, for getting to justice. Very helpful.

Also, it's possible that it's the detective who turned up for 10 minutes and then didn't tell anyone. I mean, that's suspicious to me. That's weird, isn't it? That's weird. Or it could be this killer that's on the loose, apparently. Yeah. Yeah. It could be somebody I haven't even mentioned yet.

Another copycat killer. Whoa. That's amazing. And I know some people are going to be like, you're being hypocritical, Matt, having to go these papers because you're talking about it on your podcast. But no one's listening to this. That's the difference. Those papers are out in every milk bar. Do you think this podcast is in every milk bar in Swansea?

No, we're only every second milk bar at best. Yeah. And we're working on that. Okay? Okay. Okay? We would love to be in every milk bar in Swansea. Okay?

You think that's not a big goal of ours? We'd love to be there. We'd love to be in every milk bar. And we've put on the record next time we're in Swansea, we're going to visit. Every milk bar. That's right. And we're going to hand deliver this podcast. We still won't know how this works.

No, how does it work? We got a guy. And yes, it is, it is, you're right, like we're talking about this story and, you know, that's not really helping that much, I guess. But it's something that happened over 20 years ago, and it's not our job to investigate it. And the media jumping straight in immediately. It's very unhelpful.

Really unhelpful. When an investigation's ongoing. Yeah. And, yeah, everything's still so fresh. Yeah. She would, yeah, it'd be awful. Yeah, it's pretty full on. I think maybe some people in the tabloid industry in the UK,

and I would go as far as a say in Australia, they have very few scruples. Mm-hmm. Or they, either they have a lot of scruples or no scruples, depending on what scruples means. What's the good one? What's the bad one? It's having scruples good?

Jeez, you've got no scruples. Is that good or bad? I can't imagine. not having something ever being good. Not having something. Do you what I mean? Evil bones. Yeah.

You don't have an evil bone in your body. Oh, thank God. Well, no, that's bad. Hang on. Geez, I started out confused and I got more so. I made it worse. Don't worry, you stuck the landing. Anyway, scruples.

Fun word. Scriples. That's my main point. That's your main takeaway from this so far. I think having scruples is good. Okay. Yeah. So you've got scruples?

I'm not saying I have scruples. I'm saying I'm up for sale. Are your scruples up for sale? Just just sent me 10 bucks and I'm scruples. Yeah. There's Dave over there. Heaps of scruples. I'm made of scruples.

He's up to the fricking eyeballs. Can you say do go on? Please do go on. Thank you so much. The documentary Murder in the Valley's interviews Alison Lewis who says that all the things that she'd sort of previously been proud about were being used. against her. So, uh, she had a black belt in karate. She was, uh, she played rugby at a really high level. She was previously a police officer herself. Um, all of these things were otherwise

be seen as achievements were now seen as reasons that she would be capable of committing the murders. So footage of her in karate classes using sticks or poles were used to show that she has experience, brandishing similar weapons. She's got like, there's video of it. Yeah. Any videos of her I think so. I think so. Arson classes. No arson classes. Arson classes.

Arson classes. Well, that's a lot of fun. I might go join just so I can say it. What time does arson class stuff? Sorry, I can't do Wednesdays at 8. That's when I have my arson classes. I think it has to be classes. Yeah, classes.

Arson classes. Dave, have a go. Arson classes. So I'm just checking in, is this, is this room for arson classes? It's so fun. Or was I down the hall? Arson classes down the hall. I'm here for level one arson classes.

Is that here today? Oh, level two. Arson classes? It is fun. But no, there was no... There's no video of that anyway. No video of that. But we know that she did karate and used weapons.

Yeah, I mean, because she did karate. And she was like quite hard. She was like black belt. Like she's, you know, she's very good at karate. She was a police officer. She plays rugby, like for Wales. It's like quite high up. Whoa.

For the country. I think so. And they're quite good at rugby. Yeah. So, but all of those things are just like, essentially hobbies. One of them was that she used to have a career as a police officer, but like, she just has sporting hobbies and then that's being used against her. Again, probably because it's like things that, you know, back then were like not lady, or not, they were like more masculine hobbies or whatever. so then it's like she's strong and could probably kill.

She's a witch. She's a witch. She's dumb. If she drowns, she's true. If she flies, she's a witch. She drowned. All right. Next suspect.

When are we going to find a witch? The Welsh police are just. Hey, good news. Well, the good news is, Wales doesn't have any witches. The bad news is we lost another one. I've tried a lot of women. But if that's the price of keeping whales witch free. Oh, I'm sorry.

You want us to just let witches roam about? Didn't think so. So, yeah, the weapons idea, speaking of the murder weapon in murder in the valleys, friend and neighbour Louise Pugh recalled being at Mandy's house one day when the girls were playing with the fiberglass pole. And one of the girls were spinning it on the floor kind of absent-mindedly when it hit her sister on the ankle. And Mandy was like, took it off the girls, asked Louise to get it out of the house. She's like, go put this somewhere else. So Louise took the pole out to the back of the house and placed it in a small gap next to the shed.

And this was just like a week or two prior to the poll being used to kill the family. And when asked by a documentary crew, if anyone had seen her put the pole there, she said that when she turned around, Alison Lewis was standing in the doorway. So Alison knew where the murder weapon was. Right. But how do we know that she saw it? Because a neighbour said when she put it out by the shed, Alison was there. Gotcha.

And she sort of looked at it. Yeah, she saw her putting it there. So they obviously don't have this looking after each other's back philosophy. Obviously not. Doesn't this say a lot about the 90s that the kids were playing with a stick? This is how I remember it as well. I did have a couple of dolls, but definitely sticks. Yeah, yeah.

Were they trolley poles? And a ball, a hoop. Oh, wow. Yeah. Affle nice. There you go. Yeah, we had hoop money. So this neighbour Louise, she's featured in the documentary quite a bit.

She was only about 19 when their murders occurred, but she was questioned extensively by police because she was closed with Mandy and her family, and she lived across the road. And it's quite clear in the documentary. who she believes is guilty. Louise recalls there being a time when she and Mandy could see a man standing in the back garden.

I think it was late at night. It was just a guy standing in their garden. And another time, a man of the same description was seen at Mandy's front door having a heated argument with her. And Louise isn't the only person to have seen this man.

That's creepy as shit. Just standing in the backyard, looking at the house. Yeah, this guy did it. Yeah. I think we can wrap this up. He's just standing at nighttime, standing in the backyard. I might have added nighttime, but.

No, I think I added nighttime. Nighttime, standing in the backyard looking at the house. Oh, daytime's also creepy. Yeah, it's going to be hard to, it's going to be hard to say, like, come around and go, no, no, I was doing it because I was standing there thinking about a present to buy. Yeah, I just had to look at the house to see what color the paint. I should have. Yeah, I was measuring the backyard to see what size pool to buy you.

Yeah. I was standing there measuring it With my eyes Measuring it with my eyes Yep All right I reckon about three by four Three by four what

Yep Pool diameters Three by four pools Wow It's gonna be mostly water back here We might have to demolish Part of the house It's gonna be

A big pool house now Anyway I was trying to build some suspense Oh so so so so Oh yeah I'll do it again Yeah do it again do it again And Louise isn't the only person to have seen this man. What?

A young woman named Nicola Williams reported to police that she'd been driving along a nearby road at approximately 2.30 a.m. on the morning of the murder and had seen a tall man with short dark hair wearing dark clothing. She specifically mentioned a shiny looking bomber jacket and he was carrying something in his arms, a parcel or a bag, something of like a reasonable size. Okay. Cooperating with police, Nicola produced an e-fit. That's an electronic facial identification technique. It's a computer-based method of producing facial composites.

Is it like, you know, when you make a character on a Wii sport? It's a bit like, it's essentially an electronic version of like when sketch artists sketch out, you know, oh, it's a round face and stuff like that. But it's just electronic. It's like Mr. Potato Head. I don't wonder how accurate those things are because I've looked at your faces a lot over the years. Yeah.

But if you just took me into a room with an artist now, and I had to describe your face. Apart from Matt's beard. I don't know, Jess has got like longish brown hair. I'm turning my back to you. We should try that. We should. That'd be really fun.

How accurate what I get? I'm just thinking about Jess's face. No, you are just a blank canvas to me. I think that actually says more about you than about the credibility of this thing. Okay, fine. I'm turning around. Yeah, okay. What do you think?

What do I think? Can you, could you imagine my face? Yeah. I absolutely can't imagine your face. I don't want to describe it because the language I would use would not be very pleasant. More fucked. You know, I said fucked. More angular.

More jarring. More disturbing. You've drawn his eyes too kindly. Make it more chilling. Oh, that's chilling. Too far, too far. More horns. Anyway, so she produces this E-Fit.

And that E-Fit produced a face that very, very closely matched a man named Stephen Lewis, Alison Lewis's husband. Oh my gosh. Very close. But how is he a very average looking man? And does that person know Stephen Lewis? Like? No.

No. So she just saw him as some stranger. I think so, yeah. Saw him a few times being weird. Oh, man. This is, I mean, I don't want to jump to conclusions if this isn't the guy, but he's really sounding like he could be the guy. Who knows? Who knows?

Do you know? I know. Oh, okay. Interesting, yeah. Because if they don't know, and they have described him pretty accurately, that's a bit sus. But again, they've just described a man that was hanging around. Maybe he was just gone for a walk with a parcel. Yeah.

Who knows? At 2.30 in the morning, near the, just heading away from Mandy's house. Okay. On the night? Yeah. Yeah. No, the murder. There's going to have to be a pretty big twist here.

Or he's the guy. Or the neighbour is framing him. Oh, they like to do in Wales. I love to do that in Wales. That's one thing I know about Wales. Tom Jones, Kathra Zeta Jones and frame jobs. The frame jobs, Steve Jobs is dad. Yeah.

Mr. Frame Jobs. The EFit wasn't shown to the public. The lead investigator, Martin Lloyd Evans, he didn't think this person was the killer. The investigation had shown that the killer had not brought anything with them to the house to use for the murder. And the signing of this person was a couple hours after the murder had occurred. So he's like, well, that's not in the public's interest to release that. If it's not them. Is this guy a cop?

Yeah. Is he? But the guy's, he's protecting? Is he a cop? Yep. Oh, okay. He's not protecting anybody. He's not protecting.

anybody he's just saying it's not him okay he's saying he's not this but yeah Stephen Lewis is a police officer yeah oh my god okay okay new his wife used to be one but he is a police officer yeah yeah yeah oh okay well that means you didn't do it then I know hand over hut or yeah well because they are polled the right or is that Victorian police and we know they're squeaky clean they're fine they have they have a similar probably motto over there probably like don't be evil yeah yeah that was Google. They took that off their website.

I shall not be evil. Yeah. I shall not be evil. I shall have scruples. Or not. Unless, because we're not sure what that is. Or not. In brackets or not.

Depending on which one's the good one. We could look it up. We haven't bothered. So, yeah, they're like, no, it's not in the public interest to see that e-fit. But. I was the best man in his wedding. I know this guy. Months after the murder, Nicola Williams, the woman who'd seen the man and did

the e-fit, she was asked to identify. identify him in a police line out, she picked out Stephen Lewis. Okay. In court proceedings, the judge told the jury to disregard this, however, because Stephen had an alibi. He was in bed with his wife Alison, so that's fine. And they were both awake. But the jurors were not...

Maybe having a lovemaking session? Because otherwise, how would Alison know if, you know, you'd assume they'd be asleep? They'd probably hold hands or not. Oh, okay. Sorry, I didn't think about that. Are they holding hands? She did say that she woke up a couple of times and like both times she woke up, he was there. Okay.

And one of those times was like at four in the morning or something, so. And one of the times she rolled over and he's like, oh, Stephen, you feel like a sack of potato. I'm not sure why. So the court said, don't worry about this witness picking out Stephen. It's not him. But the jurors were not told that the E-fit looked even more like Stephen's identical twin, Stuart.

Oh, my God. There was a twist. You're shitting me. And that he could not account for his movements that night. I was in bed with my brother and his wife. Actually, I lie. Some of his movements were accounted for because Stuart Lewis was the detective inspector who arrived at the murder scene shortly after the murder and then left.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You can't be serious. What? Yep. Holy shit. He was the detective inspector who should have been, you know,

the in charge of the crime scene. Who should have locked things down, who should have, that the house should have been under police watch. Holy fuck. It certainly should have been reported that these murders were suspicious. But instead, he left.

And his whereabouts weren't accounted for for about an hourish after that. And so when this EFIT came in that looks exactly like him, he went, this means nothing. I don't think I don't think I've ever been this shocked on an episode of do. No.

That is a sweet reveal. I'm a gog if I'm using that word right. If that's good. Or bad. I don't know. Isn't that crazy? Wow. So Allison and Stephen were both arrested.

They spent months as sort of the main suspects. Stuart was also arrested on suspicion of perverting the course of justice. Who's arresting them? Other cops. And Allison was arrested as well? Yeah. Well, because they think that, well, yeah, they, they suspect. suspected that maybe she had committed the murders or was an accessory to it.

Stephen had done it or... So they just went, we reckon... So it's related to this. It's related to you so we can arrest you all. We reckon it's some of you or all of you. Or none of you, maybe, but... Probably not. Probably some of you.

Wow. So yeah, Stuart's arrested for perverning the course of justice. A police inquiry into his behaviour found he couldn't account for his movements at the time of the murder, although he had been on. duty. He didn't write about it in his notebook until two days later and even then parts of it appeared to have been altered. So how did we get to this point where the court wasn't hearing about the fact that there was a twin and stuff to them getting arrested? What changed? That all that happened. They got arrested first. This is in part of those court proceedings.

They're saying the judge was sort of like, you can't take into consideration the EFIT. Why? Because he's got an alibi. Right. And the alibi is ours asleep. Right. Because they used the air fit for the twin brother that looked exactly like him. Not relevant.

No, it wasn't, it wasn't, like, it wasn't used. My God. Is this because the prosecutors sort of, they're all still looking after each other? Is this still in that period of? That's what we're assuming, yeah. Wow. So grim. It was pretty, it was pretty mismanaged in the court proceedings for sure.

Right, but they were arrested. They were arrested. questioned and... Maybe they're going to get him. From John Morris again. When Stuart Lewis returned to the police station, he reported the fire to a superior officer, but not the murders.

In the police station, he made a lengthy private telephone call and was seen feeding numerous coins into a payphone that was located in the public waiting area. Why did Stuart Lewis use a pay phone in the public area of the station to make his call when he had a private phone in his office? The telephone in his office would have logged his call. The pay phone did not.

It was the only phone in the building that he could have used if he didn't want his call to be traced. Interesting. Then maybe he just had too many coins. And he's like, I've got to burn through these. Or they're going to expire. Exactly. We're going to go off.

You know what coins are like. That's why they've got the date on the back. I've got to use up all these coins. All of mine are gone. I've put him in the bin. 1931. That was ages ago. Which bin?

Which bin have you put him in? I just thought on over there. I had bloody thousands of them. I've been collecting him. They still don't know who that phone call was to. That random phone call he made. Yeah, who would it have been to? Despite the sightings of the Lewis twins,

the affair happening between Alison and Mandy, the gaps in Stuart Lewis's night and his strange behaviour, none of the Lewises were charged and were freed from the police investigation. Oh. Well, it doesn't seem right, but we know these police get results. If anyone's going to find the murderer's name, or find a murderer,

or find anyone to call a murderer. It's them. That's correct. A few weeks after the Lewises were cleared, this is about 18 months after the murder. Police interviewed a local labourer David Morris, who had previous criminal charges for robbery and was known in the area. It was a bit of a loose cannon. Any relation to John Morris? No, but crazy, isn't it?

That's his twin. But he's a loose canon, David. Yeah, a little bit. He's just, yeah, he's had some robbery charges. And he lived in the same area, and he was the living boyfriend of Mandy Power's best friend, Mandy Jewel. Two Mandi's. Hang on. The live-in boyfriend of Mandy Jewel, okay.

He was... He was... The phrase live-in boyfriend... Yeah. It's a partner. I don't know why, but I imagine that he's living in the walk-in robe or something, or the butler's band tree. Yeah, it's his job. Like a living-in nanny has their own sort of space.

It's my living boyfriend. Dave? He's there when I ring my little bell. Where do you keep your livid nanny in a cupboard? Yeah, it's a pretty big cupboard. It's a walk-in. It's a robe. Sorry, I didn't realize it was a walk-in.

Wow. You're not just shoving them into a... Get in the cupboard! Anyway, so yes. The murdered Mandy, awful, sorry. Mandy Powers. Mandy Power. Her best friend, Mandy Jule.

Great name as well. I know. But David Morris is Mandy Jules' boyfriend. Live-in boyfriend. Partner, whatever. However, police were interested in talking to David because of one important piece of evidence, a gold chain found in the power household

right where Mandy Power's body was found. David Morris initially denied the chain was his. He said it was the same kind of chain he had, but that's not his specific chain. He had actually lost his a few weeks after the murders, after the chain had broken while he was at work. He said he'd put it in his pocket and forgotten about it and days later realized it was gone.

See, that sounds like that could be a load of shit, but it also, we know this police for, frame jobs for fun. They love framing them up. They've got to get their man. They don't really care which man. This feels like the kind of thing they might do. Go find a chain and go,

might plant this. Who knows? In evidence. Forensic testing on the gold chain found no DNA other than Mandy's blood, but they did find brick dust and green paint residue. And Morris worked as a labourer. These little bits of evidence pointed towards him.

His favourite colour was green. His favourite colour was green. It did match the cabinets in his kitchen. Oh, beautiful cabinets. Eventually, he did admit that he had lied about the chain. It was his. Okay. In tapes of his police interview, though, he said he knew he didn't have the best reputation

and neither did South Wales police. So although he was innocent, he didn't want to admit the chain was his because he didn't want to be linked to the murder. Yeah, you guys frame people all the time. He genuinely says, like, I don't have the best reputation. Neither does it as the police. Do they start laughing? They don't find that funny.

They don't find that funny, which is interesting. In fact, he'd asked his cousin Eric Williams to help him purchase an identical chain so that if the police questioned him, he would have a chain proving the one found of the crimes wasn't his. He could be like, no, mine's right here. But what happened to that chain? He did genuinely lose that one? I don't think they got a chain.

Or maybe they did. But he had another reason for not wanting to be linked to Mandy Power's house that night. So Morris was in a relationship with Mandy Power's best friend Mandy Jewell, but he was also having an affair with Mandy Power. Oh, Mandy, how many love making sessions in 36 hours? Incredible. I'm so impressed right now. She's going for the record.

Oh, my God. You don't have a love session with Mandy Powers. You strap yourself in and filled the jeez. The police alleged that Morris had gone to her house late at night, drunk and wanting sex, and when she refused, he went mad and killed her in her family, which is pretty extreme. From The Guardian. His own story is very different. He'd been living with Mandy Jewel for seven years,

but their relationship was marred by arguments, which could turn violent. I mean, you're living in the Butler's pantry. Yeah, it's going to cause strain on your neck and back. Where do I sleep? Morris said the worst was when she hit him on the head with a piece of wood after she caught me shagging this girl from around the corner. I was like, okay.

From the start of his clandestine relationship with power in 1998, he said his biggest fear was that Jule would find out. When power began her affair with Alison Lewis, Morris said he did stop seeing her, not because of the intensity of the new lover's feelings for one another, but because he had been banned from driving and could not easily get to her home. It wasn't that there was any bad blood between them or anything. He was just like, I just can't get there. It's logistics. Yeah, exactly. Early in 99, however, he insisted they had begun talking again.

They'd talk on the phone and they met for coffee. Talking the landline? On the landline. It's harder to have an affair back then, wouldn't it? And there are also, like, phone records say that, like, she called him a lot. Like, it wasn't, yeah, that backed up his story there that they were, they'd talk on the phone and stuff. On the 25th June, 1999, just two days before the discovery of her body, Morris says he went to Powers House in the morning while the children were at school and had sex.

Before he went to her bedroom, he said he left his chain, which had a broken clasp on her kitchen counter. After the murders, the chain assumed a frightening significance. Morris told his cousin, Eric Williams, and he said, like, if I'd murdered her, that is the last thing I'd have done in terms of leaving the chain behind. Months later, that conversation led to Morris becoming a suspect. So it's essentially his cousin that, like, dobed on him and said it's his chain and he, which isn't good. When he was first arrested, he lied to detectives. Again, he says, because he was scared. So on the night of the murder, says Morris, he and Jule had an argument at the end of an evening in a local pub.

He left alone and decided to walk to his parents' home, which was eight miles away, or 12Ks. But it started to rain when he was halfway there. So he instead went to the home he and Jules shared, getting there by 3am, an hour before the killings. Yet, unfortunately, this didn't really give him an alibi because he went to bed in the spare room because they'd had a fight and she slept through it. So she, I think Mandy Jule said she heard, she heard him get home. home and like the dogs didn't bark or anything so she was like well that's him because they would have barked it a stranger or anybody else um so she she backs that up but because she didn't see him they're like I don't know can't prove it's definitely him that got home and also he's not a cop so

we don't believe in the past so we assume it's him that murdered robbery is a family That's an away drug for murder. Yes. But also, yeah, we didn't see, you didn't see him. And, you know, if you had maybe an identicate drawing of him that was very closely represented resembling him, then maybe we could bring that into evidence. But you didn't see him. You don't. So.

And that's, so that's the kind of thing we need. Unfortunately. Apart from that other one. Thanks for wasting our time, Mandu. We need it every second time. Yeah. And this is the second time. Okay.

So David Morris was arrested and charged and court proceedings went ahead. So the entire case against him is based on a chain that has no DNA evidence on it and his lack of alibi. That's the entire case against him. Sure, you can't convict on that. There's no clear motive to commit this horrible crime, but the prosecution told a story of an alcohol and drug-fueled psychotic rage. Despite no DNA evidence connecting him to the scene, three years after the murder of Doris, Mandy, Katie and Emily, David Morris was convicted of murder

and sentenced to a minimum of 32 years in prison. However, another dodgy thing was happening. Morris's solicitor, David Hutchinson, had spent months representing both Lewis brothers when they were suspects. So the one lawyer is representing all people suspected of this. murder.

There's only one lawyer in this town? All the others are in jail. I mean, frame job. So this was part of the grounds for Morris's appeal. The appeal claimed that as a result of representing both parties, Hutchinson failed to present evidence which would have been favorable to Morris. Because he's already, it's a big, a big old conflict of interest. In a letter to the court of appeal, Hutchinson denies he had such a conflict, saying he was careful to ensure, that Morris was happy about the fact that he'd already represented the Lewis brothers,

and that he checked with the Law Society's Ethics Department. By the time Morris was charged, he said he had stopped acting for the Lewis's. But the lawyers for Morris's appeal say other important evidence wasn't given by the defense. For example, Stephen Lewis repeatedly insisted he did not know of his wife's affair until after power's death. Yet Hutchinson had the disciplinary report, which contained statements from two witnesses saying Stephen had known about it. If these people had been called,

they could have backed testimony from Power's neighbor, Louise Pugh, who told the court she had heard Stephen threatening power in the weeks before the killing telling her to stay away from my wife or I'll kill you. Okay, and that wasn't allowed in court. No, it wasn't deemed necessary, irrelevant.

No. Because Stephen Lewis denied that. He's like, no, I didn't. So that's that. So Morris's legal team made an appearance, heel, but in 2006, David Morris was once again convicted and sentenced to life in prison. That's even more than 32 years. Morris, depending on how long you look.

Yeah. This is, like, assuming that he didn't do it, what a nightmare. Well, that's it. And the documentary that I was watching, it does, it's like, it's pretty even. Like, it really, it investigates sort of both sides, but I don't know, David's not really mentioned until like episode three. And it does tend, it felt to me like it lent a little bit towards David Morris being innocent.

It's a really, and I'll get to it, it's a really divisive sort of story in the area. People are really on one camp or the other still. Oh, so no one's ever admitted it. Well, we keep going. Morris's family maintain his innocence and as I was saying, the murders and David's conviction have been a divisive topic in the area. From Wales Online, some locals still buy into the debunked theory that a former policewoman, her husband and his twin brother, carried out the killings.

But retired detective superintendent Martin Lloyd Evans, who led the investigation, is 100% sure South Wales Police got the right man. He told the TV documentary, Which wasn't that man. I have no doubt at all that David Morris is the killer. No doubt at all. This case has been looked at and looked at and explored. explored. I am puzzled why people can't see Morris for what he is. Can you imagine anybody saying

I'm the monster that did this? That is never going to happen. And he does not come across super well on the doco, I have to say. He's in it quite a bit, but he comes across sort of defensive and dismissive. At one point, he's asked about Stephen Lewis and does he think his wife having an affair is motive? And Lloyd Evans kind of goes on a bit of a rant about, of course that's not motive. When have you ever heard of somebody doing that? That's ridiculous. Okay. It's like, the fuck are you talking about? Is this satire? What do you mean? Yeah, I think that's one of the classic ones. Yeah. And he's like, what? What a ridiculous question? No. Love's never been a motive. What?

Scorn lovers. An extramarital affair. And he even sort of words it as if like, a lesbian affair isn't an affair. Like, it's kind of like, why would, why would a guy care about a lesbian affair? That's actually hot. It was so weird. He does sort of come across a bit defensive and I'm like, dude, you're not helping yourself here. Anyway, but that could just be my interpretation of it. Anyway, so yes, it's very divided.

The Lewis family claims to have received more than 400 threats from supporters of the free David Morris campaign. Alison Lewis has interviewed a fair bit. She comes across pretty well. I do tend to think she probably had nothing to do with it. And she also kind of sympathizes, I guess, with David Morris's family. She's like, I can completely understand why they, you know, are angry or they're upset, or I can understand how hard it must be to hear people say your family did this.

She's like, she's quite sympathetic. But at the same time, she gets like death threats all the time from people who like like the Facebook page and find her and message her and stuff. And it's like, well, that's not how the law works. works. So, but she said, how has this happened? And 22 years later, I'm still sat here defending myself, telling people I'm not a murderer, when all I wanted to do was love her. Mandy was always kind, loving, tried to do her best all the time and enjoyed her life and her children. She had so much to give and so much to live for. There hasn't been a day when I

haven't missed her. I loved being with her and everything about her made me happy. So I tend to sort of feel like she wasn't really involved, but I'm pretty sussing her husband and his identical twin brother. Unfortunately, David Morris died in prison in August of 2021. Just a few months later, in October, a forensic review of the case material revealed that a blood-stained sock found at the crime scene and believed to have been used in the murder, linked Morris to the murder. Oh.

The sock identified the presence. of DNA that linked him or a male relative on his paternal side to the crime scene. Has he got a twin brother? Not that we know of. It's a weakish link. Oh, okay. I think. It's not open and shut here.

Well, that for some people was enough to put the case to rest. It was also like a couple of months after he died. The development prompted a rare statement from Mandy's family who called on Morris's supporters to accept his guilt. They said the loss and grief our family went. through and continue to go through is heartbreaking and affects so many aspects of our lives. No family should ever go through what we have and still do. So yeah, it's a bit of a tricky one. So there's sort of like a new head of the police and he was, he's interviewed in the documentary

and he's sort of talking about how he's aware of the reputation they had and the lack of trust people have in the police. And so it was important. They got somebody else to do this review. It wasn't them. They're like, we need another police. branch to do it. And in the documentary they're like, and so is it like a pretty strong like thing of DNA? And he's like, you know, it's not as strong

as if it was a two week old case. It's 20 years old. But it's as strong as it possibly could be given how old it is. But also there's a part of me that's like, couldn't it just be his sock? If they were having sex two days before, couldn't he have left a sock?

Yeah. And there's DNA in it because it's his sock. Couldn't that be? Anybody ask that? Why didn't they find it straight away either? I don't take 20 years to find this sock until it just after he'd not. Yeah, it does seem a bit odd.

Why was it a prison sock? Why was the blood tomato sauce? Yeah, the fact that they waited until he couldn't defend it. Couldn't explain his sock. Yeah, there's nobody that could explain it. I was really hoping that was going to be a more, a cleaner resolutionist.

Well, I mean, In terms of the law, there is. Yeah. You know? They got that man. Exactly. So since David Morris's death, though, other witnesses from the night of the murder have come forward and given statements. In a 2019 BBC documentary, a former taxi driver told how he'd been driving up a nearby road close to the family home on the night the power family were killed.

And he claimed he spotted two men and called Swansea Central Police Station on two occasions over a fortnight. and was told on each occasion he would be contacted by the team investigating the murders but claimed he never was. So, like, further down the track, he was like, oh, I saw two guys that night, and he called to give a helpful tip, and they're like, yeah, yeah, we'll call you back, and they never did. They were relatively identical. It looked very similar.

Anyway, a second man, John Allen, also came forward to say he saw a man carrying a bundle that night close to Kelvin Road around 4 a.m. John Allen is interviewed in Murder in the Valley's as well, and he says, He is sure the man he saw that night was Stephen Lewis. And the police interviewed John Allen and then we're like, no, we can't take his. They came up with a reason as to why they couldn't. And he was John Allen?

He was like a taxi driver. Right. And he identified the cop twin or the other guy, other twin. Both cops. They're both cops. That's right. The husband twin. Yes.

Thank you. He said it was Stephen Lewis. But they were like, no, no, no, no. I can't. Sorry, you're breaking up. Got to go. Yeah. Yeah, it's all very murky.

I was really hoping that, well, that this was going to go that that guy got out when it became clear that the twins did it or vice versa. But it sort of still feels like there's doubt about it. Yeah. And it does feel like, okay, you're the twins. You didn't do it. Why try and push away all the evidence? because that now in hindsight just makes it look more suspicious, doesn't it? Especially with their links to the family, why wouldn't they be,

why would you not be reporting it as murder straight away? It feels a bit weird to be like. Well, that's it, yeah. And what he should have done, actually, if he was doing his job properly, like I said before, he should have locked down the scene. There's all these steps that should have been taken at the actual scene itself, but he also should have removed himself from the case because it's not. the conflict of interest. That's professionally what he was supposed to do, knowing that his

brother and sister-in-law are friends with Mandy. It's not appropriate for him to be on the case. That's what should have happened. And instead, he just fucked off for a bit. And I'm sure at some point, the thing that's hard about writing this report is that it's, but it's a lot of just like old newspaper articles, which kind of, it's those type of articles that assume you already know a lot of the information. So they don't fill in a lot of gaps. Like how to pronounce clinic. Clitic or a book or a documentary. So there's gaps.

I'm sure at some point they were sort of like, so, Stuart, where'd you go in that hour and a bit that kind of coincides with this crime happening? I'm sure that that must have happened at some point. But yeah, it feels like it never really went anywhere. And sometimes documentaries, you know, they also have their angle. So you don't know what bias you'll get. Exactly. Like they're telling the story, they're leaving things out.

Yeah. Yeah. Even just like the way things are edited in a documentary tell you what they think without them saying it. And yeah, the fact that this superintendent comes across really defensive and like he just, he's sort of like, it's David. It's David Morris. But then in looking at it, I'm like, well, I don't, I must have missed the evidence against him. The sock. The sock, sorry, yes.

And also that thing of like, whenever you have like a cab driver or something, 20 years later being like, it was definitely him. I know. A man who's been in the paper every day for a couple of years in your town. Yeah. Do you, I don't remember the face of the taxi guy that you've had driven me here, you know? I know. You might forget it quickly.

Your memories evolve at the time. Yeah, totally. 20 years. And then you see this guy in the paper. It's easy to go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Convince yourself.

It was that guy. Yeah, exactly right. And, yeah. He also did a vlog at the time. So he's easy. You could just watch the vlog. And I think that as well in the interviews with like the neighbor who was a teenager at the time. You know, she's got all these really strong memories of it being Stephen who was, you know, having an argument with Mandy one time or they reckon it was probably him in the backyard or, but she's also using the exact same language in terms of describing what this man in the backyard was wearing.

It's the exact same language as Nicola Williams. description, which it's been so long, Louise has probably heard that description. Right. And it, do you know what I mean? Like, it's all gets so... It gets so muddy. Oh, man. So the, the clinic murder investigation was the largest and most complex homicide probe

ever undertaken by the Welsh police force. Owen Phillips, the filmmaker behind Murder in the Valley's, said this. Those sort of things don't really happen in those sorts of communities. close-knit industrial communities. Everybody knows everybody. It's gossipy. So when it happened, it was like an atom bomb for the whole community and all the surrounding towns and villages

because of the brutality and the strangeness. For 12 months, there were no arrests. You can imagine the fear and paranoia that was happening where people were worried about who could have committed these murders. As well as it being an interesting case with extraordinary details, I think there is a legitimate reason for opening this up and looking at it again.

one of the difficult things is separating the fact and fiction, the gossip from the truth. So there's that. And there's interviews with both families, like the Morris family are still, they have no trust in the police, which is totally understandable. They were not satisfied with the DNA evidence on the sock. They still maintain that he's innocent. But yeah, then on the other flip side, Stuart Lewis has sort of said, like, his life's kind of ruined. It's been 20-something years, and he can't get a job because as soon as somebody Googles him, he's linked to this murder case. Apart from the family, obviously, who were murdered.

There's innocent people, other innocent people who've had their lives ruin. We just don't necessarily know who they are. Exactly right. Is it David Morris who's innocent? If it's Dave Morris who died in jail, it's awful. Yeah. I just, I mean, obviously, who knows, but it just, Why would he have done that?

Yeah, there's no real motive for it. It seems like it's, I mean, why would anyone have done it? But why would he have done? It just seems like what's happened where they say he just lost it? Yeah. But then there was also in the documentary, there's an interview with a guy who sort of knew David Morris. And one time David Morris came in to his house and hit him over the head with something. And the documentary was like, why did he do that?

And the guy's like, that's just what he does. And you're like, okay. So, but I don't know. Yeah. Who knows what the reason for that was? Yeah. Seems really, really odd. It is.

It's awful. It's awful. It's awful. And I'm sorry there was no fun resolution. I mean, yeah. Or satisfying. Not it was never going to be fun. No, I don't think it was unlikely to be fun.

But yeah, it's a wild story. Yeah. I thought you'd enjoy the twist of the identical twin. That twist was jaw dropping. You looked quite shocked for a while, actually. I was quite proud of that. Because I was sort of like, where do I put this in? How do I work this in?

And I was hoping that neither of you would like call me on why I haven't named the, I've named everybody else except the detective inspector and I was just calling him Detective Inspector. It's so funny how it's like that thing when you're doing a surprise party for someone. Like they know. Oh my God. But I'm like, who's thinking, well, there's a surprise party for me? No, I'm thinking.

I don't usually drive this way home. Oh my God. They know. They know. Yeah, so yeah, that was, I didn't notice that you hadn't named them. Yes, good. And if you had have named them, I don't know if I would have noticed that either. Yeah.

But yeah, it's a pretty, it's a, oh man, it is a wild story. It's a great documentary. If it's available anywhere, like on any streaming services where you are, murder in the valleys, it's called, came out in 2022. It's a really interesting four piece. I do a really good job of it. And, yeah, John Morris has written The Cliddock Murders, a miscarriage of just. as well. Great resources on it. Wow. No relation. I think. I didn't get that far into the book. Maybe he's like, and he was my cousin. But I don't think so. Oh my God, because it was him or relatives to be on the paternal side, which is probably where Morris comes from. Okay, we blend this right open. We've got it. We've got it. We've got you, John Morris.

My last chapter is a miscarriage of justice because I did it. And I haven't finished the book and I'm like, fucker, we've got him. turns out he admits it. That's not true. That's not true, John, if you're listening. I wanted to get ahead of that. But yeah, it's it didn't write that John if you're listening. It's a tough, it's a tough thing to talk about too, isn't it? Because we can sit here and like, I don't know, go, I reckon it was so-and-so.

But like, they're people. Yeah, yeah. And they have families and it's strange, isn't it? It's an awful, awful thing. Yes. But I am suss on the twins. I'm sorry. I think a lot of people are.

But from a legal perspective, they have been cleared and are innocent. But they were so involved in that process. Yeah. And at such crucial times. And also, I think at 1.2... If you don't want to be seen to have been dodgy, that's the whole reason why you separate yourself from an investigation.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. Just why wouldn't you have done that? That would have... Like, you'd know that that's what you should do. Yeah, and so then... And if not, even if you're going to be there, don't go, anyway, I'm knocking off and then not report the murders.

Yeah. It's pretty weird. Yeah, you would remove yourself because then people would go, oh, but he, you know, he acknowledged a conflict of interest and removed himself. He acted professionally. That would look good in your favour. I totally agree like 99.99% but I can see the tiny bit where a bit like the Morris with the gold chain where you go, I didn't do it, but I know this looks really bad.

Yeah. Because the identity kit looks exactly like my twin brother. Yeah. I'm going to do everything I can to try and make. Because on the off chance that he gets convicted, and I know he didn't, even though. Yeah. So I don't know. You have us panic.

Yeah. All of that, doesn't that make you think that there's enough reasonable doubt for both sides almost? Yeah. And so David Morris shouldn't have been imprisoned. Yeah. Which would have also probably not felt good for the, you know, that. Yeah. And this.

Yeah, for the family, yeah. We know they get results here. So that was never on the table. It's an interesting one. But yeah, at some point I also read that, um, that Lloyd Evans, the superintendent I was talking about, he also knew Alison because they worked together many years ago. And he's the one saying, no, David definitely didn't.

Why can't anyone see it? It definitely wasn't my friend. Yeah, yeah. It was David. Why would a man, his wife's having an affair, right? Why would a guy get mad about that? What's the big deal? When's that ever happened?

I don't recall any men getting mad. I've never seen it in a book, a film. A television show. Or in my day-to-day work as a police officer. Never. That's crazy. That's crazy. I tell you what doesn't exist in this town, domestic violence.

No, absolutely not. People keep saying it's a problem. I'm like, where? Show me. I haven't seen it. I'm looking up there. I'm closing my eyes. I can't see it anywhere.

But yeah, that's the twists and turns of the Clidduck murders. I'm going to chalk it up as a mystery episode. Yes. We don't know. obviously someone went to jail for it, but we don't know. Yeah. It doesn't seem like the open and shut case. It feels...

But that's mainly because Jess left out this really crucial bit of evidence. Because I'm creepy. It sort of also feels like it's a bit too late for anything really substantial to change this. You know what I mean? I would love there to be an update and they have rock solid stuff. That does seem to happen when we do this topic. I know. So I'm hoping for it, but it does feel a little too late because obviously,

the family who were at home, who obviously knew what happened, they were killed, David Morris is dead, who could tell us what's happened, you know? Unless one of the twins gets a deathbed confession. Yeah. If they did it, if they didn't do it, they'll be weird to confess to anything. Yes. I know. They do a deathbed.

I told you, I maintained my innocence. Yeah. Well, it wouldn't be blocked without a murder. or a mystery and we got both. There you go. What great value from Bopper today. Well, that brings us to everyone's favorite section of the show

where we thank some of our fantastic Patreon supporters. And if you want to get involved in this, you can go to patreon.com slash do go on pod and there you can get all sorts of bonuses and rewards. Dave, please list some of these now. Bonus episodes.

I'm talking 190 plus in the back catalog at the time of recording. Plus we put out three new ones, every single month. You can get involved with voting for topics. You can find out about live shows and get discounts before everyone else. You can join the Facebook group, which is a lovely part of the internet. Some say the nicest corner of the internet.

And yeah, we're creeping towards our target of doing a fourth bonus episode each month, featuring a D&D campaign. Campagna. Campania, which may be called D&D go on or. Yeah, something else clever. Do go on and D. Yep. Do drag on.

There's Muldgeon. Do Dungeon. God, there's so much. Do drag on and do Dungeon. So many options. I like it. I like it. But the first thing we like to do is people who sign up on the Sydney

Scheinberg level or above get to give us a fact, a quote, or a question, or a bragger or a suggestion or really whatever they like. And this section actually has a little jingle. Go something like this. Fact quote or question. Bees. He always remembers the ding. She always remembers the sing.

I always remember that it sounds like widget the World Watcher. And this week, I'm reading out four, as I do every week. And everyone also gets given themselves a title. First up this week, we've got Nathan Lang. Okay, executive of looking as if he knows what's going on. Glad I've been relieved of that duty. Yeah, God, you were so good at it too. You always looked like you knew exactly what was going.

going on. Convincing. He's a very good actor. And yeah, I don't read these out until I read them out, so that's just forgiving myself for any sort of fumbles or snumbles. Nathan writes, long time listener first time caller. For my first fact quote or question, I wanted to share my favorite quote from back in high school, which I wrote at the start of my first notebook right as I started writing comedy for the first time. Like with every teenager who decides they want to be a comedian in high school, my favorite quote was from the late George Carlin. And the quote is, people who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point. A beautiful quote. Oh, I like that. Beautiful quote. Pure entertainment. Nothing else. Nothing else matters.

Oh, yeah, which is a great James Hepfield quote. I'm looking up Nathan Lang comedy. Let's see. Let's see how the career is going since that quote kicked it off. It is also a great quote for a professional entertainer to say, isn't it? Justifying their existence. No, no, no. This is the most important thing you could do with your life. And anything else? Dumb.

Stupid waste of time. Don't even think about it. Don't worry about sleeping or eating or family. Entertainment, baby. I think this might be a different Nathan Lang, but I think Nathan Lang is a barrister. Oh, wow. I mean, you've got to...

Still performing. You've got to perform. You've got to talk the talk. Yeah. Fantastic. And, you know, who entertains more? Yeah. I've seen Rake.

Yeah. I'm picturing them all to be... They're all Rake. Clever Green types. What's that actor's name? Rake. Richard Roxburgh. Richard Roxburgh.

What a guy. I've also found a Nathan Lang on IMDB. Ooh. Oh. Known for The Favorite, Stingers, Neighbors, Blue Heelers. Oh, sick. Could this be it? He could be a double threat.

I think a lot of people in acting and comedy also are in the law. Yep. Thinking of Sean McCaroff. Yes. And the list goes on. Nathan Lane. Thank you, Nathan. Next one comes from Mr. Justin McCain.

Play this silly game. When all the kids on the street, as they like to do the same. Boo! And Justin McCain is Connoisse. of dad sneezes. Oh. Man. Is it,

do you reckon this is a, there's something about dad's sneezing. They do it louder than anyone else. They get a real run up. Yeah, absolutely. Sure, there's a lot of that for dads. My dad is the loudest fucking sneezes.

It's like, we're all experiencing the same pollen dickhead. I have a very loud sneeze too, actually. I got a real dad sneeze on me. And Justin McCain also offering a quote writing, They call me Dr. Worm. Good morning. How are you? I'm Dr. Worm. I'm interested in things.

I'm not a real doctor, but I am a real worm. I'm an actual worm. I live like a worm. I like to play the drums. I think I'm getting good, but I can handle criticism. I'll show you what I know. And you can tell me if you think I'm getting better at the drums. I'll leave the front unlocked.

because I can't hear the doorbell. Beautiful quote. Beautiful quote. I love that. Again, it just sort of makes you think about what matters in life. Being a worm. Playing the drums. Yeah.

Leaving your front door unlocked. Whatever. Thank you so much, Justin McCain. Fantastic stuff. Next one comes from Stephen Edmonds, okay, director of recursion. Is anyone going to, anyone know what that means? Recursion? No, maybe.

Excursion, recursion, recursion. recursion. Maybe he'll explain. Incursion. Incursion. That was when people came to you. Yes, I'm guessing a recursion is when you go to Sovereign Hill again. All right.

So, Stephen, who used to always give us recipes, is offering us a quote, three quotes in a row. Can you believe it? Oh, my God. And we don't get quotes that off. This is exciting. I feel inspired. Me too. Let's write a film.

Okay. All right. Let's write a film. All right, so here is Stephen's quote. He always remembers the ding and he always remembers the sing. And the way to get involved in this one is to sign up at the Sydney-Shaunberg level or above. And then you get to give us a factor quote or a question, a brag, or a suggestion, or really whatever you like. You also get to give us or give yourself a title.

And I read four of these out each week. First up this week, we've got one from Chris Torres. And I should say, I don't read them out until I read them out. This is Dave. No, this is fresh news for you and me. So these great, these great supporters could put any words in my mouth, Dave. Oh my gosh. And no, I, and I refuse to edit them out.

Whatever they say, that's not quite true. But Chris, so far, no one's ever made me say anything too offensive, Dave, except for tongue twisters. They're fun. Oh, yeah, offensive tongue twisters. That was Matt Stewart With Dave Warnocky The Marathon Saints

Episode 413 Dave would you believe this? I have no recollection of that Although a lot of that does feel pretty familiar But yeah We recorded that bit A good five and a half hours into the session Yeah, it was five and a half in

Thank you so much Stephen for that They've been so grateful to be sick You would have got up on it by now though Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm chipping away on it Yeah, yeah, yeah. The last one this week comes from Nathan Damon. Who was hanging out with in Perth last month?

Nate, you ought to see Nathan Damon? Yeah. Oh, gosh, you have a good life. The man drives the biggest trucks. Whoa. Like, they're road trains, but they're not street legal. They're only able to be driven. They're so big that they can't be driven on public roads.

He drives them on huge private mine sites. Oh, wow. And he drives for hours. And he has this routine where he listens to all our podcasts at certain times of the week and stuff while he's in the truck. That's cool. You say like not straight legal like they've been lowered. They've all got canaries. They look fucking sick though.

And the Noss is ready to go. The Noss is ready to go and they've got their sub warfare in the back is too big. That's so cool. Do you think I could do that job? Yeah. I love to drive. One hand tire bind you back. Reverse parallel in the road drive.

That'd be so fun. Yeah, I imagine Nathan Damon could park like a minibus in the tautist spot like it was nothing else. But give him a mini Cooper and he's fucked. He's like, well, so small. Too tiny. The knees are on his chin. He's like, I would get it. So Nathan Damon's giving himself the title, group dad, who wants ice cream.

Me, please. Chocolate. Chip chock chick. Chip chock chick for me too. Because what Matt's trying to say is. Mint chock chip. Mint chock chip. And that's what I want too.

Actually, I'm going to change my order to, I've been getting into coconut lime. Yuck. That doesn't sound right. Unbelievable good. I can understand it would be beautiful. I don't like coconut. So you can have that and don't get it on mine. But do you like lime?

Yeah. Then you love it. Can we wrap it with some dark chocolate? What's wrong with you today? Okay, we've got to check in. You can't go off script. Some dark chocolate? Min mopip.

Chickop. Why? Okay. Checked up. Someone check my... Chocolate. You feeling okay? Is everything all right, mate?

I don't know. We talk for a living. Chip, chop, chip, chip. Chip, chop, chip. Uh-oh. We're not done yet. Nathan breaking the pattern here, offering a fact. Okay.

And the fact is. Oh, it's road train related. Hooray! Most of the road trains I drive have 98 wheels. Any thoughts on that boat? Are there a couple of spares at least? Yeah, are there spares? Oh, steering wheel.

Oh. Oh, 99 wheels. 99? And what else? What else? Maybe one spare. He eats a wagon wheel for lunch. Yes, that's 100. He says, pause while Jess loses her shit. Correct. And he's upsetting. It's so many fucking wheels, too. But he does say, now to appease Jess, those wheels are mounted on 25 axles equaling 50 hubs.

At this point, while Jess is breathing again, the nerd Dave is probably thinking the math doesn't add off. Is that what you're thinking, Dave? 50 for 90, eh? What do we meant to believe that there's some sort of extra axle just hanging out with no wheel on it? Dave's thing. Oh, Ty, what the fuck? Get out of Dave's head, Nathan. Well, the wheels are mounted two per hub except for the steers, which are singles.

So when Matt carries the one, it works out. Just carry the ones. Does that work out? Nathan Damon knows us a little too well. I know, wow. And I love it. Trust me. Now to make Jess really happy, each hub has ten.

wheel nuts giving us a grand total of 500 wheel nuts on each road train. Okay. We do have other trucks with more or less wheels, but my head hurt after working that much out. Anyway, keep doing what you do and love you all. Hey, love you too, Nathan Damon. How many flat tires do you need before you've really got to, like, get in there? Oh, yeah.

If you lose one, do you bother, Chaney? Just like, just drag it along, it cares. Yeah. Yeah, can we do a fat quote or question to you, Nathan? Yeah, I've got so many questions. How would you change? Like, there must be so. heavy, how would you change the tire?

Yeah, especially if you're out in the mine site in the desert somewhere. You lost the tire. You've got to get out there and dig it out. Sounds awesome. Do you have to climb a big ladder to get into the truck? I'm so excited by this. Do you ever sleep in that little back bit? I'm obsessed with those little...

Yeah, imagine it'll be huge in this one. I think I found a new passion. It's like my apartment. I think I found a new passion. I think I love trucks. Keep on trucks. Can you take us all out someday, Nathan? I want to have a go.

That's so fun. It's probably a manual. I have to let it drive manual. Thank you so much to Nathan, Stephen, Justin Nathan. What a diverse group it was today. And that brings us to the next thing we like to do is thank a few of our other fantastic supporters. Jess normally comes up with a bit of a game for this based on the topic of the day. Yes.

So what we're going to do is we are. we are going to. It's tricky. I'll admit it. I'll admit it. What about, oh, no,

it all feels insensitive, doesn't it? I was going to say, like, what they left behind at a crime scene. Like, it doesn't have to be a murder scene.

Yeah. Just a crime scene, what are they left behind? What are they left behind a crime scene that they didn't commit? It's just, it's a circumstantial then going,

fuck, I've left this. What did their twin allegedly cover up? No, we'll go with your one. All right, if I can kick us off. I'm going to go with from Latham in the Australian Capital Territory.

Thank you so much to Jessica Yo. Jessica Yo left behind. Her spoon collection. All of them. All 148 spoons. Like travel spoons? I mean, you know, like the little souvenir spoon. Yeah, exactly.

Travel spoons. Not a little fold-up spoons. They've been all over the world, collected 148 spoons, and then accidentally left them at the scene of a bank. robbery. Jessica, yeah, you couldn't have found two more spoons, let's be honest. Well, she was stopping for, to get some cash out to go buy two more spoons. Yeah, then left the whole collection and then the cops went, well, I mean.

Ours now. Because they're corrupt. Did you commit this robbery? Really feels like you leave such a key piece of evidence feels like a frame job to me. Thank you so much to Jessica. I'd also love to thank from North Fanish in British Columbia in Canada. I believe this might be Vancouver Island because Diana Chomack gave a great

who knew it question recently. Diana's a biologist and she sent me a bunch of butterfly ones. Oh, that's nice. And the real one on this episode, a few weeks back, probably a month ago, was was Pomegranate Playboy.

It was a real butterfly. That's incredible. Zamit and Dushia were on and they went, well, that's not the real one. Like straight away. And then spent ages dissecting the others. But it was, yeah, anyway. Diana Chomack.

Oh, it's not even a good-looking buffalo. No, no, it does not live up. It looks like a moth. It's boring. Doesn't live up to the name at all. That's not trying to shooge it up a bit. Give it a rebrand. Pomegranate, a fun, you know, a burst of flavor.

Yeah. Playboy, sexy. Yeah, yeah, wearing it. On the fucking most boring butterfly. Smoking a pop or something. Yes. So maybe Diana could have some sort of, uh, some butterfly related or...

Like a big net. Oh, big net. That's not a big net. What's the craft scene? There's a... A grand theft daughter. Someone stole the car. There's a big net in it.

There's a big net in the car. It's huge. I like, I'd like to think that Dan is like, oh my God, he knows my profession so well. A big net. We all carry around a big net. I know what you do. Big net.

It's like, it's so big that to put the back seat. down to fit it in. It's that big. It's a big net. Thank you so much, Diana. And finally, for me, I'd love to thank from West Alice from WI, maybe Wisconsin in the United States. It's PJ Moody. P.J. Moody. Great name. PJ B Moody. Yeah. Sounds like to me, that that screams real estate agent. P.J. Moody? Yeah. I'm not going to, I'm not going to PJ Moody. I trust PJ Moody. I don't. But I'm thinking, I'm probably just thinking that because of A.J. Hooker. Hooker, you're the best. LJ.

Hooker, you're the best. I'm thinking of our editor, AJ. And then it would go, thank you, Mr. Hooker. Thank you, Mr. Hooker. And we'd snicker. Oh, we would. That means something else. A rugby union position.

Yeah, an important one. I don't know what the hooker does. PJ Moody. PJ Moody has left behind his contact lenses. Oh, my God. They're always bloody illusion. those things. Yeah.

Disposable or not? Can you get ones that aren't disposable? Yep. And yep. Okay. Wow. Double yep. So yeah.

And PJ can't find, I can't see anything now. That's unfortunate. It's really unfortunate. We've got to assume that their name is short for Pajama Moody, right? I assume. Pajama Moody. Pajama Moody. Maybe it's more like a, or they're more like a Peter Alexander.

type. Right. Moody pyjamas. Moody pyjamas. Peter Alexander known for muted colours. Very moody pyjamas. Yeah, yeah. Definitely don't do Christmas sets that you could also get one for your dog.

For your moody dog. For your moody dog. Well, yeah, I think that's, that was the gap in the market that Peter Alexander left open for PJ Moody to step right into. Do you want to thank some for us, Popper? I would love to. May I please thank from Garden City Park in New York. That sounds so.

Beautiful. Beautiful. We'd love to thank Megan McCaffrey. Megan left behind their signed copy of the Lord of the Rings. Whoa. Signed by who? By Megan. Megan had written their name on the front page.

It's very difficult to say this isn't mine. Isn't they? This book is owned by Megan. With your name and address and then you've signed it. Yeah. And then you've put your fingerprint on it. I think. Why are you, you got to look after your books better.

This is not looking good for you, Megan, which we know Megan didn't do it. No, we know Megan didn't do it. But it doesn't look good, does it? Well, I said it wasn't my book because I knew that you would draw conclusions. But I just happened to leave. I just happened to leave my book here. Can I have it back? Please.

I was only half I'm through. It's a signed copy. What happens next? It's very valuable to no one. Thank you, Megan. I would also love to thank from, oh, we can only assume, deep within the fortress of the moles. Location unknown Daniel H

What is the edge stand for? Moll Wow The H is silent H. Moll Daniel Left behind

A hook A hook Wow Has a hook for a hand Yes, left it behind Left it behind That's unfortunate Which hand

Uh Dominant hand Left The dominant hook Left behind Left behind the left hook. That's disappointing. Yeah.

And it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good because it was at a... Jack the Ripper. A hook massacre. So it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good. But as we said, Daniel didn't do it. It just does...

It's a frame job. It's a frame job. It's a frame job. It wasn't me. It was the one-off man. Yeah, yeah. Fugitive. Good movie, good TV show.

So thank you, Daniel, and good luck in the upcoming case, because you're going to need a lot of luck, I read. We believe you. We believe you. No doubt about it. And I would also love to thank, now help me with this, please. Is this Denmark? This is Denmark.

Denmark? I believe it is Denmark. Have a go at that, do you reckon? From Covenhaven. Because when the O's crossed out, I think it means it silent. We would say, Copenhagen. Oh, so cool. Thank you so much.

I would love to thank Hannah. Hannah Seven. This is seven. Seven is silent. Oh, apologies. Hannah Seven. Hannah left behind. Well, we know we've got quite a close tie with Copenhagen and Denmark with our Prince Mary.

Oh, yes. God, we love our Mary. We love our Mary. We want on a little river cruise and they pointed to that that's where she lives. And she didn't invite me in. Victoria, we gave her a tram. We gave them a tram for as a wedding present. Did we?

I think either Victoria or Melbourne did. An old tram. What do they do with that? What a burden we've given them. What do you do with it? Scrap metal. I've seen videos because her kids are all sort of like teenagers now. I've seen videos of them just like roasting her because like she speaks Danish but like it's obviously not her first language.

so they're always like, yeah, mom says stuff wrong. It's pretty funny. Pizzeria. Razor Blades. You know what she's like. Oh my God. She sounds so funny. How do we say no again?

No. No. Yeah, that's how we all say it every time. No. Oh, mum, please can I go out for the afternoon? She's like, no. No. Bit of fun.

Hey, I'd love to thank some people now. Did we say something for Hannah? Oh, what's Hannah left behind? So we just, well, a tram. Tram. Tram. A trams. Which is pretty.

It's like. Hannah arrives with this tram. Everyone sees it. It's a big forklift that she needs delivering it on. And then you forget it? How do you forget a tram? And then you're like, oh, she's pat in her pockets. Yeah.

Keys, wallet, phone. Tram. Tram. The tram. The tram. I forgot to tap on on my own tram. By the time Hannah goes. back for it, everyone's dead.

Yeah, because they will run over by the tram. Again, not her fault. We'll end it on the witches' feet of just poking out. Okay, now you can thank some people, Dave. I've looked up Copenhagen. So I've titled into Google on it. It just says, get there. And we can be there in a short 23 hours and 30 minutes.

Oh. So. Within a day. See you tomorrow. That's good news. That's less than a day's travel. God, you're a glass half of the country. I love it.

I would like to thank from Willoughby in Ohio. Oh my God, God's country itself. Big shout out to phase four or phase 1v or phase Ive. Phase four. I'm going to go for if. Phase if. Phase if. Phase four.

I really hope that when this episode goes out that this doesn't trigger something, you know. Phase four. And then the robots uprope. rising happens. They're waiting for someone to say phase if. Because they're like, no one would ever say that. That sounds stupid. That's ridiculous.

Make that the code word. Nobody would ever think that would be how you'd pronounce that. Phase 4 from Willoughby. What is Faze left behind? Lightaber. Wow. Like, do they get it from the set of Star Wars? No, it's like a real one.

It's like a legit one day. Oh my God. Don't tell me they left it at the crime scene where people were killed with a lightsaber. Yeah. That is unfortunate. No, no, they weren't kill with a lightsaber. They were killed.

with a khyber crystal to the face. Someone threw the khyber crystal, which I think is what powers a lot, say, but? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Who by talking to? Have I become the nerd? That was the nerdiest thing you ever said.

Oh, my God, you freaking nerd. Oh, I hope I got it wrong. I've never been so unattracted to you. A new load. A new low. We didn't think we could get there, but... But you're saying that they threw the handle at someone's face.

Is that what you mean? Yeah, yeah. What are the thing? I believe a khyber. But Crystal's important to it. I believe you. And it's just like a rock and they just, they took, they didn't know how to work it. So they just picked out the rock and they chucked it at them.

Like in any action movie where they shoot through the clip in the gun and they go, oh, whatever, and just throw it at the person. Love that. Love that. Love that. I'd love that. I'd love that trope. I'd love to get a montage actually of people throwing their guns. Yes.

Did someone do that? I'll watch the shit out of that. Phase four. Could you put that together? Is that something you were two? Is that phase five? Let me know. Let me know.

Let me know. Let me know. Love you. Love you, thanks. Bye. Oh, that's what, okay. Next time I would like to think. So I was just looking at what the next one is because it's written as from Bruce TWP.

Oh, that's a place. In Michigan. I'd love to live in Bruce. It's Bruce Township. Oh, my. It's the girl stands for, which I love so much. Holy shit, that is right up there with Gary. Wow.

I love it. Bruce. And you know what comes up when you first Google it on maps? Blake's orchard and cider mill That sounds beautiful All right It's on the list When we end up on this tour

Can we go to Bruce Add it to the list I think I'll be in America right now As this episode comes out Is that exciting? What are you doing? Maybe I'll be in Bruce You'll be in Bruce

The largely But in Vegas The largely rural township Is home to the Ford Motor Company Proving Grounds Oh great That's a baking thing And it's also home to

Oh it's also home to Sorry, got so distracted by Bruce there. Soya hole. That's a great name. Okay, you definitely switch things around. I think Bruce is from Sawyer Hall. Soya. Soya.

Sawyer. Sawyer. Soyer. Tom Sawyer. Water. Tricer. With the American accent. It's so good.

I've learned all of my American accents from Busy Phillips. And PBS podcast. Oh, yeah. Whatever they're called. What are they calling? This American life. This American life.

I don't think that's how they talk. That's how they talk. That's the surfing edition. So your hall is left behind a rowing all. Oh, why? They were just carrying it. Okay. And then, you know, the explosion started going off, so they dropped it.

Of course. Yeah. But it does look a little bit suspicious now. Yeah. Wow. because there's just an awe. Yeah, and people are like, why'd you have that in the city? Yeah.

It's weird to have in Bruce Township. None of your business. And then because of that attitude, they keep saying none of your business. Rather than no comment, they say none of your business, it makes them look guilty. Yeah. Honestly, Sawyer, just say no comment. Yeah. Do you know who Sawyer's lawyer is?

But they're terrible. Sawyer's lawyer. Sores Lewis sucks. But on your Sawyer. And finally, I would like to thank all the way from Eland, Wisconsin. A big shout out to Ava. Ava. Ava has left behind. Well, let's do one of the three ways.

Yes. Let's do a three way. We'll pause here. We'll have a three way. Then we'll come back and we'll finish this. Even though it's never been less attracted to you. We've never been less attracted to you. This way I'll look at your backs.

Okay. You don't have to look at me then. We'll get in a circle. What we're doing. We're getting a semi circle. If you're looking at our backs, that's. Oh my God. Get that image out of my mind.

You can look at my back if you're like. You're all looking at the wall. I feel sick. Okay. Is it a word at a time? All right. And it's an object. All right.

I'll finish it off. Okay. You're going to finish us off? I'll finish off. I'll come back. What happened? All right. And we're back.

That was fantastic. Okay. For some. Speak to yourself. I'm just, I think, they got a good time. That was a bit of fun. What a great love, love session.

Love making session, that was. This is awful. Apologise to anyone eating their corn flakes or spitting across the room. All right. Flange. I've been given you, all right, green. Sauce pen. Flange.

We've never been closer after that quick break we have. Green saucepan. Wow. Wow. Ava left behind a green sauce of flange. And there's questions on the cops mainly, what the fuck is this? I was like it's a new invention, actually. It's a great source for flage. Oh, if you have to ask.

Thank you so much. I have a Sawyer phase four, Hannah 7, Daniel, Megan, or Megan, PJ, Diana and Jessica. And the last thing we need to do is welcome a few people into the Trip Ditch Club. This is a very exclusive club where Pee's. People who've been signed up on the shoutout level or above for three straight years get shouted out. They get welcomed into this club. They're allowed to come in. They're not allowed to leave.

It's like a one-way flange. What is a flange again? Anyway, so. I think it's a thing. A fruit flange. Some of you. It's a dessert. It's a, no one.

It's like a, I can't describe it, but it's like a little, a little thing. Like a. Anyway, so. So people who have been signed up for three years straight. Used to connect pipes with each other? Yes, there we go. And we always are welcome them in. A bit of theater of the mine.

I'm sitting at the door. I've got a velvet rope. I lift it. Call out their name. Dave's on stage. He's hyping him up. Jess is hyping Dave up. Dave does the hyping with a bit of weak word play.

Jess is behind the bar as well. Normally comes up with a little treat. Yep. We've got the Welsh cakes and Welsh whiskey. Oh, fantastic. What a combo. What a beautiful combo. Breakfast of Champions.

And Dave, you normally book a band? You're never going to believe it. What? I have been trying to get this band in for a long time. One of my all-time favorite bands all the way from Wales. What? Super furry animals are here tonight. Oh, my God.

I didn't brush my hair. All right. So are we ready to go? Ready. It's quite a few, Dave. There's a few. Oh, my God. How many were in the list?

Nine. We got nine. Here we go. Nine, feeling fine. Sorry, just warming up here. Okay. He's on already. He's hot.

Let's go. From Tacoma in Washington in the United States, it's Sarah Castanida. Let me welcome in with some castanets. Br-R-R-T-da-da-da-da-da-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. From Olympia. Also in Washington in the US, it's Catherine Conrad. Putting the ride in Conrad. Yeah!

Wow! From address unknown can only assume from somewhere deep within the fortress of the Moles, it is Cube. Cube! It looks like based on their email, their initials are MK. MK. My kind friend, Cube! My dude!

Yeah, Cube, I was going to say, before you said the MK, which I obviously had to work something in there, I was going to say something like, I love you on all sides. Oh, yeah. That's so good. MK, you're ultra-competitive for my affection. Shut the hell off. From Smithfield in North Carolina, quick fun fact.

That is where Venus flytrapes are from. Not fun. In the United States, please welcome into the club. It's Brian Siddle or Siddle. Brian Siddle. The night we're starting to idle, but then Brian Seidel came along. Really got us up a gear. Let me sidle on up next to you and get you a drink.

From West Valley City in Utah and the US. Please welcome in Ben Robinson. West Valley City born and raised. Ben Robinson. Here for a day. Oh, also 10 out of Ben. Whatever. Yeah.

Ben out of 10. Whatever. From address unknown can only assume as well. Deep from in the fortress of the moles, it's David. Takes one to no one. David. Yes. David, I'm just, I'm wary of not outing anyone's full names if they've written a partial ones on purpose.

But his email address surname is with a P. His email address is. D. P. Dave's already done it and he's nailed it I'm just making sure that David knows who we're talking about because he's from the Fortress of the Moles Yeah, it's just David

A boring name that anybody could have You know, it's David, the David Yeah, big shout out David P Pete Thank you so much Also from deep within the fortress of the moles Please welcome in

I don't think I'll need to give any more info because I think they'll know who they are It's tamboloneous monk Like the jazz guy Philonius monk And then... Getting Funky with Tappellonious Monke. Okay.

Woo! Okay. Feel the funk with Tambolini's Monk. There it is. Thank you so much. Please welcome in from Cork in Ireland. It's Kean. Kean Griffin.

I love how you knew that I was... What my eyes were asking. Kean, always a pleasure to see him. Oh, that's good. And finally, from Bendigo here in Victoria, it's Matt Allen. Matt Allen. Something to the key. You're the key to my heart.

You're the Alan key to my heart. Oh, you're the Alan. Sorry. That's great. Obviously, it takes for Matt to know a Matt. And you're the key to my Alan part. That is good. Uh-huh.

Ellen. Welcome to the club. Matt must try stand up. Welcome to the club Matt Key and tablonious, David, Ben, Brian, Cube, Catherine, and Sarah. Yes. That brings the end of the episode. Anything we need to tell people. Before we wrap this up.

That we love them, that they can suggest a topic. Anytime. And all of these topics through block are things that have been suggested to us and then voted on by our listeners. So you don't have to be a Patreon to suggest a topic. You can just do it. And it's incredible to think with this episode, only one person suggested it and still, you can still, you can be the only one of the world to think of a block worthy topic. Yeah. Yeah.

That doesn't normally happen. No. Usually we're reading out a bunch of names that's suggested. So incredible. Pretty amazing. So yeah, there's a link in our show notes. And you can also go to our website, which is do-goonpod.com. You can find info about live shows there, suggest a topic, buy some merch, whatever you want to do.

And you can follow us on social media at Do Go On Pod. Davey, booted home. Hey, we'll be back next week with another fantastic episode. That's my guarantee. But until then, I'll say thank you so much for listening. And goodbye. Bye. Why are you waving?

We've got a camera in here now. A security camera. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. Wherever we go, we always hear six months later, oh, you should come to Manchester. We were just in Manchester. But this way you'll never, will never miss out.

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