Do Go On - 43 - Frank Abagnale Jr.

Episode Date: August 17, 2016

This week, Jess dips into the suggestion hat to tell the story of the con artist who inspired the film Catch Me If You Can. There's fraud, fake names and a lot of lying! Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPod  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serengy Amarna 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. All right, let's do it. Hello, and welcome to DoGo on. Hey, Dave. I think on this episode, I might kick it off.

That's okay with you. And welcome to Do Floom Lott. Oh, no, back to you. Back to me. Do Go On. My name is Dave Wornicky. You've already heard from Matt Stewart's stuffing up the intro there. Hello, Matt.

And welcome to Do Go Home. Great, good picking up there. And Jess Perkins, it's been a while since you've done your own intro, but want to have a crack? Okay, you know, I don't like it when you put me on the spot. But, okay, here we go. I just want to say I haven't had time to rehearse and it's cold, so my voice isn't really warmed up. Not as easy as I make it sound every week, is it?

I've had a long day, but here we go. Okay. Do flim gone. Good thing to do you go on. Right, I'm going to grab the reins back off both of you. Yes, please. Yes, please. It is time to do go on with us, Dave.

Matt and Jess. Your face is creepy right now. Hey everybody, welcome to Duke Go On. I'm your host, Matt Stewart. I'm your other hostess, Fergus. Well, I'm going to call and enter this straight away and ask how you both are. As hosts of Duke Go on, I'd like to let you know that I'm having a good time. As a co-host of Matt's on this comedy slash factual podcast, Duke Go On.

I'd also like to mention that I, Jessica and Elizabeth Perkins, the second, and also do I. Pretty well today. Thank you for asking. Do you go on. Back to you, Dave. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm actually very, I'm scared of asking either of you to do go on at this stage because it looks like I will be carrying this episode. Which is great because it's my episode.

I know. It's not even me doing a report on a topic. It's Jess, it's you. Yeah, it is me. You're welcome. You get to listen to... Oh, no. It's going to be great.

I cannot wait. I cannot wait. You've prepared a report? I have prepared a report. Because it does sound a little bit like you're saying. I repaired a report. She said the wrong word. I did.

I said repaired. So good. I repaired it. You see that? What a time to be alive. I feel like you're stalling here. Jess. Have you actually written a report?

Yep. Have you chosen a topic from the hat? I have. She's bloody dipped into the hat. She's dipped into the hat. I was like, hey Matt, take that hat off. I got to dip on in. And he was like, you better be quick, Jess.

Because it's winter and I got to put on my hat to keep my head. She bloody got her. his elbow deep in Matt. Yeah. Well, you would want your hat at the moment because haircut today, Matt, do you notice your ears were a bit colder? Yeah, a little fresher on the ears.

Mm-hmm. You know, in this August summer breeze. What's August? What season are we in? It's winter. Winter. August is winter. Spring happens after that.

That's right. Yeah, that's right. Very good. September's next month and that's springtime. Okay. And spring is sprung. All right. Is that right? Yeah, but.

That is right. September, October, I'm glad that you've mastered the seasons. Spring. December, interestingly, it's when summer hits. You're kidding. No. Why would I fuck with you on this?

I never would, Jess. Seasons are important. And if you're not going to take them seriously, well, then you can get up and fuck off. Okay? Look, I don't know. I don't even know, like you're giggling away in the corner there, and that says to me that you're not taking my words very seriously.

And if that's the case, well then that hurts my feelings. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I will never not take the seasons seriously. I know how important the seasons are to you, and we had that big seasons party last year, where everybody came dressed as their favourite season, and you had season-themed snacks. I came as season two of the OCs.

What a highlight. You saved that really well. You really did. Oh, boy. We have fun here. But anyway, back to you, Jess, talking about your report. Yes. So we always start with a question, right?

Yes. Okay, Matt, have you got your buzzer ready? Oh, sure. Names are your buzzes. Let's test the buzzers. Matt. Oh, that's not bad, Dave. Dave.

Oh, he's got a bit of a run-up, which is cute. Okay, here we go. So my question to you boys is. Oh, they're both poised. They're ready to go. Hands on buzzes. Who is the most successful con artist? Matt.

Hang on, he might get it wrong, no. Nicholas J. Johnson. Local Melbourne, con man. An all-time, all-round, fun-time guy. Okay, I have not done my report on Nicholas J. Johnson. One half of Jones Town. Dave, would you like to submit your answer? D-da-da-da-D-B.

Okay, you didn't have to do the buzzer, but yes, Dave. Sorry, thank you, but it's fun. I know it is. Is it a Dave? Yes, Dave. Con the Frudera? Con the Frudera? An excellent answer.

Incorrect. You'll probably get that if you're above 30 and an Australian. You're not above 30 and we get it, so. But I'm a childhood gentleman. Matt. Condoleza Rice. Condoleezza Rice. Also a very good answer.

Unfortunately, not the correct answer. What was the question again? Most successful Conard. Dave. Dave. Constantine Stanislavski. You'll get that if you have been to drama school. Which, well, I didn't go to drama school, but I was drama captain.

You know who? Yes. Constantine Stislavski is? Of course, I studied Stonislawski's work. Pretty good. The Moscow Art Theatre. It's a worthy of a report, which I might do one day. Well, actually, that was a suggestion.

Somebody has said your favourite theatre practitioner. Oh, definitely not my favourite. But anyway, Matt. Buzz. Yes, Matt. No, not your buzzer. Matt. Come on.

Try again. Nah. Yes, Matt. Thank you. The Southern Cross. star constellation. You're an absolute dickhead. Is that even a thing?

You're a dickhead. I could not think of another constellation. I genuinely don't think I know any... I can't think of it. Apart from Nicholas J. Johnson, I don't know anyone. Well, I wonder if this name will ring a bell. Have you heard of the work of Frank Abignale Jr.? Frank Abingnail?

Abig. Abag. A-B-A-G. Abagnail. N-A-L-E. Abingnail. Well, first of all, he's condoned us into pronouncing his name wrong. Oh, he's good. He's good. He's on the ball. Have you maybe heard of the 2002 Leonardo DiCaprio film Catch Me If You Can.

Yes, I've seen it. Yes, Dave. Yes, I have. Very good. Are you going to do that before every sentence? Tom Hanks gets his man in the end, or does he? I can't remember. Spoiler alert. I can't. So is that, that's who the movie is based on is this? That is who the movie is based on. Oh, very cool, because that's a cool movie that I saw at the cinema with my dad. but I haven't seen since.

It was a long time ago. Yeah, I haven't seen it since, and I was thinking the other day that I remember they were wearing smart suits and planes were flown. I really wanted to watch it and then I thought, no, I'm not going to watch it before I do the report because then I'll be swayed by the film and I'll put things in to my report based on the film. Hollywood style. Yeah, and that's not, you know, it's a film, it's a story. It's a great bloody story. And what it has to answer for is the entertainment of a generation. Thank you, Hollywood.

Now, I'm interested to know who suggested this topic. This was suggested to us via email by Ryan. Thank you, Ryan. Excellent suggestion, Ryan. Ryan who? Just Ryan. Oh, very mysterious. Almost like he's some sort of con man.

Has he got our credit card details now? Our joint, because we have pulled our accounts. The do-go and credit card, obviously. Yeah, we've pulled our accounts. Every money you make outside of the podcast, I am entitled to my third. What do you spend the dogo on money on? Which works out of it? us.

Mainly feathers. Good. I collect a wide array of mythical birds' feathers. Where did you pull feathers from? Mythical birds. Mythical birds' feathers. I think I may have been conned. Have you got any?

I may have been, yeah. One of them costs $10,000. That's too many dollars for... I mean, even if you pulled all of our money together, not sure if you're buying a $10,000 feather. Well, speak for yourself because I have spent the money. Okay, great. We're paying it off.

Oh, shit. Oh, boy. Okay. Well, in the meantime, maybe I will just tell you the story of Frank Abagnale Jr. How about that? Yeah, that would be good. Please do go on. I am.

I like it. I think, because, I don't, I couldn't name a con man, but I think the story, I like the idea of a con man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is quite a fascinating story, too, so I think you will enjoy this one. So, Ray's just north of New York City in Westchester County, New York. He was born in 1948, and he was one of four children. His parents divorced when he was 16, and they'd kept it. a secret from Frank and his siblings.

Whoa, well, well, they kept it a secret. He's only 16. Is he still living with them? Oh, yeah, he's still living with them. But what I mean is, like, the fact that they were getting a divorce, they'd sort of kept secret. So the kids didn't really know that the parents were unhappy and going to get a divorce. So lying runs in the family.

Exactly. It's in the blood. I like it. When he was in the 10th grade, a teacher at his school took him out of class, handed him his things and told him that one of the brothers, because it was a Catholic school, would drive him into the... County Centre to meet his parents and he wasn't told what was happening or he wasn't entirely sure where he was going but he was assured that his parents would explain.

Now he wasn't sure where he was when he was dropped off at this big concrete building and told that his parents would meet him inside. Has he been kidnapped? He has been kidnapped. No, he hasn't been kidnapped. Oh right. Okay, that's what I'm waiting for. So I can laugh.

Okay, good. There's no kidnapping. Just divorce and a family falling apart. Surprise. That's hilarious. Surprise. Laugh. No, so he climbs the steps into this building and he sees a sign on the building saying family court,

but admits that he didn't really know what this meant. Even 16, he's going to really know what that is. I don't know what that is. Is this some sort of family food court? Because I like baked potatoes. But mom loves pizza. Pizza, and everyone's happy in a food court. Exactly.

A little sum for everyone. He was ushered into a courtroom where he finally saw his parents standing before the judge. This would be very confusing if you have no idea what's going on. That's suddenly in a courtroom. It feels not cool to me. It feels like some sort of MTV prank show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it gets kind of worse because eventually the judge sees him at the back of the room and he motions for...

Hey, hey, hey, come on over. Exactly. He does exactly that. What? He motions for him to approach the bench. And the judge, Frank, in his recollection of this sort of says that he remembers the judge, not really looking at him, not really acknowledging that he was there. He's standing between his parents. and eventually the judge is just reading from his papers

and said that Frank's parents were getting divorced and because he was only 16 he'd need to tell the court which parent he would want to live with. Oh my God. Oh my God, this is like the opposite of Sophie's choice. Yeah. Except a lot less death. But anyway.

But you still have to pick a favourite. Yeah. Is that the opposite of Sophie's choice? No. Yeah, but a kid picking a parent rather than a parent picking a child. Ah, gotcha. Okay. I see where you're going.

The opposite would be a kid. not picking a parent or a not kid not not picking a oh boy so he's picking yeah so they're like all right well pick who you want to live with

now he starts to cry obviously and he ran out of the courtroom so the judge calls for a 10 minute recess but by the time Frank's parents got to the lobby he was gone he was gone he's left the food court

he ran from the food court oh my god did he even finish his baked potato didn't finish his baked potato couldn't eat he was sick sick to the start can't eat and you know he loves baked potato I reckon his dad probably finished it off. Probably does do that.

The judge said, look, you're going to have to wait until he comes back. He'll pick which parent he wants to finish this baked potato. How do you have your baked potato? All right, I'm talking, baked potato. Yep. microwave first. Then I put it butter and salt, then into the oven to crisp it up. Then carved it into four.

Butter, cheese, sour cream, guacamole, a little bit of salsa. Yes. You're in potato town. Oh, you've done it. Population, starch. That sounds great to me. I think, you know, at the very minimum, you want your butter and your sour cream. I think that you're classic, right?

I would say cheese before sour cream. I love cheese. I mean, I love cheese too, but sour cream's a must on a baked potato. Agreed. And then if you can get your hands on some guac. Oh, my. I mean, all bets are hot. And then if you've got guac and you can add a little bit of salsa.

Yes, yes, yes. Oh, my God. And the question is, why has he left the food court if he's got this? Oh, the divorce. Sorry, forgot that bit. I forgot the bitter, bitter divorce and the choice. So his parents rush out to the lobby, but he's gone. He's long gone.

Now, his mother, Paulette, didn't see him after that for about seven years. Whoa, Paulette. Paulette. Didn't see him for seven years. He just took off. That is a horrible name. I would not pick her. What's the dad's name?

Frank Senior. Oh, I'd pick him every day. Yeah, I'd guess Frank Senior. But... Paulette. It's interesting that you say that because Frank Senior never saw or spoke to his son again. So he's 16, he's run away from home basically. Hit the road, Frank.

That's amazing. That is, like, from, you go to school just like, all right, normal day, here we go. Not knowing that's the last thing. Go to the grey building. Okay, all right. Running away. Like, just out of nowhere. Yep.

What a bloody, bloody, God, geez. It's pretty intense, right? Oh, I'll tell you what. Jeez, Louise. You know. Oh. Oh. Mama.

So he gathered a few of his things and he bolted. He caught a train into New York City and he previously made deliveries for his dad's stationary business. So he knew the city pretty well. So he decided he would find some similar work within the city. Because he knew pens. He's a pen guy. No, but just like the delivery and the, like he knows the city so he can maneuver his way around pretty well. Has he got money?

Can he? I only imagine the 16. If I'd run away, I would have been like, oh, it would get to dinner time and I would have run out of money and food. That's why he's getting a job. Oh, see, the 16-year-old me would not work. No. Even if I was starving. Did you have a job at 16?

Absolutely not. When did you have your first job? About 19. Are you serious? What were you doing? I played in a band. I thought that was going to be my life. Oh my God, I forgot you played in a band.

You still haven't really had a job, have you? I mean, you've worked for a trivia company. I've worked as a kid's party entertainer. Yeah, party entertainer. I've worked TV shows. He was in a band. Yeah, I made a bit of money for you. being in a band.

Did you make enough money in the band just to like feed yourself and survive? No, not making any money. But I was hoping that one day it was kind of a trade-off like, Mom and Dad, I'm not working now, but in 10 years, I'll be a multi-multi-millionaire and I'll pay you back in one lump sum. Exactly. I'll buy your jet. They were keeping tabs.

I owe them $28 million. Wow. Plus interest. I know. They were really forking out for me. And what were you buying? Mainly feathers. Yeah, no, fair enough.

Fair enough. I had a job when I was 12. I've had a job ever since I was 12. What were you doing at 12? That's illegal. Paper round. Paper round. Is that legal?

Oh no, this was the 1920s, I guess it was legal. You had a mortgage, but then. It's Matt Stewart, the Prospector. Paper round, and then I went when I was 14, nine months, got a job at a supermarket, Trolley Boy. And you were there for like... I was there for nine years. That's too long.

Nine years? Yeah. My God. I got a job at 14, nine months. What were you doing that age? My first job was at Toys R Us. That sounds fun. I bet it wasn't.

It was horrendous. What did you have to do, pat the giraffe? Yeah, I had to pat the giraffe. Is his name Harold, or is that just the life bed band? No, that's the life bed van. I don't want to grow up, don't want to grow up, I want to be your toys of us kid. That would play constantly. I mean you in the shops?

Yeah, well, I was like stocking the shelves. Stocking the shelves. But my manager, who's probably only my age now, like he would have been early to mid-20s, it was just an absolute ass. It was the worst. And they would put me in this other 15. year old on from the 9 p.m. to midnight shift. It just made no sense.

So then my dad would have to drive to pick me up from a busy shopping centre. No, your dad's working for toys, Aras. I know, sorry, Dad. That's from the bloody books. That was a shitty job. But yeah, I was working at 15. So Frank's doing the same and he's getting a job.

He's going to... Well, so you two can relate to him, but I cannot. It seems weird when a, like, the guy, your old boss. I was like, how... I don't understand. How is some young guy an asshole? It seems so weird. Have you not met people your own age that are

assholes? Have you not met people? Yeah. Well, there's that too. But whenever you're... I've met kids that are assholes. But you're dealing with a 15 year old. Yeah.

Why would you be an asshole? An asshole is an asshole. I've been a cat that's an asshole. Yeah, there's... I'm not working for no cat. Oh, that's a good point. I refuse. Unless he can offer my band a really big contract because I need to pay my parents back.

What was your band called again? I've had many. Number one. First band was called weed hornet. That's great. Named after a whippersnipper in the garage where we practiced. What's that? We didn't get rich.

We'd Hornet. That is... Cut down for our prime. That is a good name. My band... I was also in a band. Did you know that? Yeah, probably.

Neither have you seemed that shocked. No, I feel like we... I think we might have talked about it before. I was in a band called Cause of Distraction. Yes, that's right. Cause of distraction. Yeah. I feel like we talked about it, maybe...

Is that because that's... Yeah, maybe. Is that because that's how your parents described it? It's distracting you from your Toys R Us job. Yeah, come on, Jess. Career prospects, kid. Come on. Climb that.

Toys a Rust Ladder. Climb that giraffe's neck. I worked there for one Christmas and I left. Anyway, so Frank, we're back to Frank. Frank's looking for a bit of work, doing some delivery. Delivery. That sort of thing.

Great. So he found work. He found it pretty easily because he did have the experience. But he soon realized he wouldn't be able to support himself on that amount of money because he realized that as long as people believed he was 16, they'd pay him as a 16-year-old, obviously. Ah, well, that does make sense. But even at his young age, he was already six foot tall.

He'd always looked older than his peers. I cannot relate to this guy at all. Can you even grow a beard? Still not. Turning 26 next month or this month. Soon. Very soon. Oh my God.

We're having our 26th soon. Can you, do you think that... It's hard to say. If you get to 26 and you can't grow a beard, by the time I'm 50, will it happen or is it just not? No, it's gone. Yeah, I think you're done. Can I have some sort of hormonal injection?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, big time. You can wear a fake beard. Oh, don't patronise me. You got to shave. you can grow a beard. I don't think it's all you think it is. Or you have a beard.

That's the other option. You shave or you have a beard. Yeah. Fuck, I love both of those options. Anyway, I just wish I had options. So I'm sorry that you can't relate.

Can't relate, but he's six foot. He's 16. He looks old. So he decided to lie about his age. And in those days, driver's licenses didn't have photos. And Frank altered his to change. But sounds like it's open for distraction. Stop it.

He just altered his own license from 1948 to 1938, so now he's 26 years old according to his license. Right? So he's still, he's getting work that way and he's getting paid a little bit more money, but it's still not making a lot of money. So he's like, well, I'm going to bring myself 96 and then they'll pay me. That's how it works. He began to cash checks. He did have a bank account that his father had set up for him. So every now and then, like to, you know, just tied himself over.

He would cash checks and take money out of that account. but when the money ran out, he just kept writing checks because people trusted him. Like, he had this as trustworthy face and he would just write checks. And they would lay to bounce, but he'd be gone. Wow. Pretty clever. Sounds like a bit of a con man.

A little bit. So when the checks did start to bounce, he began to worry that soon the police would be after him. So he was unsure if he should leave the city because he thought it would be more difficult to cash a fake check elsewhere from a New York bank account with New York driver's license. Like if he's in Miami or if he's in Chicago, they're going to, you know, be a bit more strict.

Yeah. They look into it in more detail, you know. He's an out of town. Yeah, yeah. So you'd probably, there might be a different process or they might look at it differently. So he was like, I don't really know what to do. I don't know how I can leave. Then one night as he's walking home, he walks past a hotel just as an Eastern Airline

flight crew stepped out of the building. And as he watched the pilot and flight attendants carry their bags to their car. He thought, I could pose as a pilot. I could travel all over the world for free. And I could probably get anyone to cash a check for me anywhere. Starting to relate to this guy. Because there's nobody you trust more than a pilot. Oh man, the guy in the Flight Centre commercial.

I was thinking of him too. I love that guy. He puts the hat on off. Go on better. He's a reference on all my applications for jobs and properties. Call the Flight Center guy 13-1148. You'll know who I am. Hello.

Hello, Flight Center. I'm just wondering about one of your employees, Jess Perkins. Press 1 if you would like to go on holiday to Thailand. Well, this checks out. It seems legit. He's a, for people who don't know, he's a mascot. It's like an ad mascot. For like a chain of travel agents in Australia.

You really over-explain everything. What Jess has just done there is sort of talk me down a little bit, saying that I'm over, like trying to explain too much more than I need to. What does explain mean, Matt? What Dave's done there is asked a question. The question posed is sort of cutting to the heart of what I'm doing right now, which is explaining, and he wants to know a little bit more about that. Jess has sort of just exiled.

Jess, do go on. Thanks, Jess, I might. Well, we're all hosting our own episodes separately here. So the next day, what he does, after he's seen these, he's got this stroke of genius. The next day, he makes a phone call to the executive corporate offices of Pan Am and asks to speak to purchasing. So he's transferred through, and when he spoke to someone, he told them that he was a co-pilot called John Black. based out of San Francisco. Keep it simple.

He told them that he'd flown to New York the day before and sent his uniform to get dry clean by the hotel. Well, now the bloody hotel and the cleaners say they've misplaced my uniform. How old is he still 16? Yeah. Oh, this is awesome. Well, no, he's 26, wink, wink. He's also a pilot named Jack Black, wink, wink, wink.

Yeah. John Black. And I think later it was Robert Black. Like, it changed around a little bit. But it was always Black. Always been on Black. While he was at Pan Amie, yes. So anyway, he told the person on the phone that he had,

had a flight in about four hours and had no uniform to wear. You know, like, I'm in a bit of pickle. I've been in this company for seven years. This has never happened. I'm not really sure what the process here is. What do I do here? Right? And so they're like, oh, don't you have a, have you got a backup uniform?

He's like, yeah, in San Francisco, I'll never make it in time. Okay, okay, hang on. Poppin on hold. Come back to the phone and say, all right, you've got to go down to the well-built uniform company on Fifth Avenue. They're our supplier. I'll call them and tell them you're coming down. Now, it's going to be an out-of-pocket cost to you and not the company.

You know that, right? Yeah, no, I understand. That's fine. I'll write him a check. Boom, exactly. So anyway, he goes down. He gets fitted for a uniform. Everything's done.

Salesperson, he goes, how much do I? I think it was about $280. He's like, cool, I'll write your check. They said, no, no, no, we can't take check. And he goes, okay, I'll pay in cash. I went, oh, no, no, no, that's not how it works. You need to fill out this form. Put in your employee number.

It gets billed back to Pan Am and they'll take it out of your next paycheck. And he goes, great, even better. Cool. Great, great. I know my number. No problem. 1-11-1-1-1-1. Just before I...

One-1-1-2. I'll write it down. Just want to remind me how many numbers would be in the number normally? I think there was even boxes. Boxes is great. Boxes are great. How good is that? Seven.

Four. I'm going to put a three over here. Uh-huh. It's like the way that looks. It's like he's doing Dad's Lotto. Yeah. My mum's birthday's on the 16. Yeah, all right.

We'll put down a 16. He's in one box. He's not right. Anyway, so he's got a uniform now. He's got a Pan Am uniform. Now, New York has two airports. It has LaGuardia and Kennedy. And he went to LaGuardia Airport and spent the day there watching how the airport operated.

You know, what's going on. Doing a bit of recon. He's in a bit of recon. Oh, recon. There we go. Emphasis on Khan. What were you about to say, Dave? Is he wearing the uniform and just sort of strolling around having coffee,

You're saying hello to people. Good to see you again, Burrs. Pretty much, because he was like, I've got this uniform. Now, how do I get on the planes? So, um... What? He's going to...

I know, it's so good. He's thinking, yeah, how... This is just insane. It's so great. So he's having some lunch at the airport when a crew from another airline sat down next to him and start chatting to him. And he's like, ugh, fuck.

And he gets like... He sort of just fumbles his way through a conversation. My number is 1-1-1-1-2. My mum was born on the 16th. God, he seems legit. Yeah, my God. That's how us pilots talk. Yeah.

Anyway, one of them eventually says to him, say, what's Pan Am doing out here? Pan Am don't fly to La Guardia. They only fly to Kennedy. That's great. Lesson one learned. So he's like, oh, yeah, no, we flew into Kennedy. I'm just out here to catch up with a few friends.

Heading about to Kennedy now. Anyway, I'm going to go, bye. That's good, quick thinking. No, no, he's very quick on his feet, and he must be, like, super confident. I would just start crying. I would just shit myself. Pan Am doesn't cry out of your hip.

Oh, you got me. I'm a bigamist I've been married twice I'm busted again Pudy Jonesy You got me I slept in my mother's bed

Until I was 70 Are happy Alright I still get night terrors sometimes Shut up I'm a fake I'm a failure Never kissed a girl

Don't even like coffee What the fuck is this What is this? First question You just break Hello sir how are you Oh God got me.

Fuck, I thought this uniform would... But you don't believe me, do you? You don't believe me? You know, I'm only 16 and I got this uniform. I thought my pretending, then my hotel broke it. Oh, God. My parents were getting divorced. I just ran away from the baked potato court.

Oh, I just fucked it. I just fucked it. We love your sense of humor, Blackie. Anyway, you're on the next flight. Good on your life, mate. Here the case. Either case. Off you go.

See in Las Vegas, Matton. Muff your trot. Right, so that's a pretty great lesson to have learned. That's such a funny thing. But then during his recon, a second recomb. He also notices that everyone has laminated photo ID cards, and without this card, his uniform that he, that he commandeered, is basically useless.

Like he needs... Has he just been walking up to restricted areas and they're going, do you have your card, sir? And he just does it completely 360. See you in a second. Oh, I left it in my... Goodbye. I left it at LaGuardia.

I was having a sandwich with friends. Bye. My number is 111-1-1-1-1-2. I was having a sandwich with friends. Bye. All right. See you later, Blucky.

All right. Catch a later, man. I hope you had a good sandwich. All right. God, he's a character. I love that guy. He's the best man at my wedding. I've had an ID card.

He'd be on the next slide out of here. Anyway, so he realizes he needs an ID card. And you know what he does? He looks in the phone book under identification and calls all the... of these companies to try and like figure out who makes the Pan Am ID cards and eventually somebody tells him like oh it's it's Polaroid that do it you got to contact them so he gets in contact with the right company I think it's like a part of Polaroid anyway he tells them he's a

purchasing manager for a small regional carrier who were looking to expand and he asked him he could come by their offices and discuss their systems and pricings he says I like this Pan Am system that they've got I like their format we're interested in a similar sort of thing can I come down and we have a bit of a chat about I'm just in New York for the day. So have you got, like, oh yeah,

sure, come on down. So he goes to their office and he discusses it with them. And like I was saying, he tells him he likes Pan M format. He asked for a sample. And what they gave him was this glossy,

large piece of paper. It has like, this is a sample stamped across the top. And it's a different photo. It says like Joe Blow is a fake name and stuff. Damn, why did I call myself that? Yeah.

Because I should have been John Citizen. Yeah. Fuck. So he's like, all right, well, that's useless. So then he says,

oh, what's all this a question? equipment that's lying around here. And he's like, oh, we don't just make the cards. We sell the equipment to sort of do it yourself. We've got all the photos. Let me grab my checkbook. The cameras, we've got everything.

And he says, oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Well, we'll have to buy all this equipment for our upgrades. So why don't you just show me how it works? Just use me as an example. So the guy takes his photo and creates a card for him. That is so good. What? Just make it out to John Black.

Make me look like a... Why am I? wearing a Pan Am uniform in the photo, don't worry. Just take the photo. Just take the photo. No, stop asking questions. And then, oh, can I keep this sample and they let him take it? Yep. Right.

It's too good to be true, right? Because it is. He walks out with a Pan Am photo ID, but he realizes that where the branding should normally be, there's no, like, it doesn't say Pan Am anywhere. It doesn't have any of the branding, any of that, because obviously it's a sample. It's a blank. So he's like, oh. And he's all disheartened.

He goes back in and says, what? Can you just show me how they put the Pan Am. No, he does one better. So it's not going to pass as a real deal. He's all just hard, and he's walking home, and he passes a hobby shop, and he goes in, and he asks him if they sell model planes. And the man says, oh, yeah, we do. And he goes, do you sell Pan Am planes?

He goes, yeah, we do. So he buys a Pan Am cargo plane for about $2.40, back in his hotel room, throws out all of the parts, and retrieves the sheets of decals that are meant to be stuck onto the toy planes. Ah, little stickers. Little stickers. Soaks him in a bit of water, and then they fit, peatts. perfectly onto where they should be on the card. No.

That is amazing. Isn't that amazing? So it works. It's a perfect ID card. And Pan M have since estimated that between the edges of 16 and 18, he flew more than a million miles for free. 26 countries. But did he not get into the cockpit and then the pilot was like,

all right, mate, let's do it. But there's also another pilot that would be scheduled. No, he never flew on a Pan M plan. What do you mean? So what he would do? Because he never wanted to. He was worried that somebody would ask too many questions. Maybe they'd also be based in San Francisco and be like,

well, we've been there for 20 years. I've never met you. I've never seen you before. Exactly. I was in the food court having a sandwich or a baked potato. So he flew with everybody else. So instead he'd go to the desks of the other airlines and ask if the jump seat was free. And the jump seat, it's a spare seat in the cockpit, basically used for that.

like, you know, pilots need him to get to certain places to start their journeys and stuff like that. So he would just go up and be like, oh, I need to get to Chicago. It was a jump seat free and they'd just sign a little pink slip. They'd check his ID and he'd wander in. And what do you have to sit? We'd have to sit in the cockpit and make small talk with the pilots. Yeah, but it's the same conversation every time. So once you pick up the lingo, you can bullshit your way through anything.

And whatever plane they were flying, he didn't fly that plane. He didn't fly that style. so he didn't have to know anything specific about this. Yeah, if you've had an RF 13, give you an AX-22 black. God, no. No, no, I don't, never touch the things, are you? I fly much larger planes. I'm a proper pilot.

Or smaller, if this is the largest out there. Is this a lot of you've got? Isn't that amazing? Don't you think that's amazing? That is really good. And he's still a teenager. He's still a teenager. That is fucking incredible.

And then when he gets to his destination, he'd speak to the desk staff there, and he'd be like, oh, where do we lay over here? because there'd be hotels that have, you know, partnerships with the airline, and then there'd be like a free shuttle bus or something for airline staff. And he'd go to that hotel, sign in on the airline crew sign-in book, which meant his accommodation of food was charged back to the company. As Blackie? Yeah, well, he had like the fake name and fake card, so just use that.

That is. Is someone in accounts going, who the hell's this? I don't know how they didn't pick up on it, but he got away with it for a long time. That is. And a million miles. Million miles from 16 to 18. Fuck. Isn't that amazing?

So good. So good. Now eventually, um, eventually, um, eventually though, the FBI released a John Doe warrant for the use of fraudulent checks.

So they didn't know his name. They described him as about 30 years old, but they were starting to pick up on his trail. So he's like, ugh, I'm gonna, oh, no good. This is Tom Hanks, right?

Yes. Tom Hanks is the FBI. Anyway, I don't, don't entirely understand this bit, but the, uh, like the hotels,

had an agreement with the airlines as well. They could cash personal checks for them up to about $100. So he would also just get cash out as well. Oh, he's got it made. He's so good. But then he also discovered that other airlines would honor that for each other. So every day he'd go to the airport and go to every single desk. Multiple desks.

And just cash a fake check and take the money. And that would take, it was a huge airport. That would take about eight hours. What do you get after eight hours? Shift change. You'd do it again. Oh, he's pulling a... He has made a lot of money.

Like he's made he's made heaps of money, so he decides, well, I can just hang up the fake uniform and move somewhere and hopefully get away from, you know, the eyes of the FBI who are tracking somebody doing some dodgy things, right? Right. So he ends up moving to Georgia, and when he's moving into a new apartment, he didn't want to write his occupation as pilot for fear being caught. So he wrote down doctor. Cool. Easily, he's moving on. Yeah, he says he's a pediatrician. And it's not like in an emergency anyone who calls on a doctor.

He looks like Doogiehouser. It's fine. If you're on, say, an aeroplane or something like that. Is there a doctor on the plane? Oh, fuck. No, I'm a pilot. I'm a pilot. Well, that's okay, because the pilot's taken ill and we need someone to fly this plane.

Oh, God. Oh, no. Oh, no. I don't fly. I don't fly this type of plane. Oh, no. I fly model planes. Right, so he said he's a doctor.

Unfortunately, another man living in the building was a doctor at the local hospital. So, Frank has said he's a, um, pediatrician. This guy's a head of pediatrics at the local hospital. I don't do that kind of pediatrician stuff. Don't go with doctor. Go a small businessman. Yeah.

Oh, nothing interesting. Drug dealer. Well, no, because he was... Delivery. He wanted it to be something that justified him. He was driving quite a fancy car. He could afford a nice apartment. I own a lot of small businesses.

I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah, yeah. I created Facebook. Ever heard of it? No. Oh. I'm a doctor. I'm 30, 40 years too early.

Anyway. Anyway, I'm going to be big, baby. Real big. I invented the internet. Haven't heard of that either. Yep, I'm a doctor. I'm a paediatrics. That's my game.

So they kind of, the two doctors became a little bit chummy. And then he was asked to help out at one point. He agreed to act as a supervisor of resident interns as a favor until the local hospital could find someone else to take the job. Now, the position wasn't too difficult for him because supervisors didn't do real medical work. He was just sort of overseeing the residents, right? So, uh, he, yeah, it's still awful. But they still come up here and going, what did I do, Doc? Just do what's in your heart, kid.

Pretty much. Like he would make them kind of do things and, he was probably a terrible supervisor. People probably died, do you think? Well, he was nearly exposed when an infant almost died from oxygen deprivation because he had no idea what a nurse meant when she said there was a blue baby. He was like, what do you mean? Blue Baby. It was a blue baby. Great. Cool. Cool, man. We're going to be in the newspaper. First Blue Baby discovered. Sick. Cool. All right. I'll be in the lobby. Having a coffee. I've started to like it. Dr. Frank. All right. Okay. He was able to fake his way through most of his duties because he just let the interns handle the cases coming in during his late night shift. You know, like little things like setting broken bones. Stuff like that they'd already kind of learned to do. All right. So I thought he was doing little things like setting. I was like, oh my God. Because that's maybe.

be little to a doctor, but I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. God no, imagine trying to give stitches. I couldn't do that. I can't sew a button on, let alone skin. Oh, wow. It's not like you can just whip off to the toilets and Google and YouTube tutorial. Oh, yeah. Like, how to stitch a gunshot wound.

With YouTube, I could definitely be a doctor. Have you taught yourself things off YouTube? Oh, yeah, big time. Such as? I did one today. What'd you do? How to replace battery on key, on, uh, key for car.

Car key, maybe? On key? No, no. I Google the term. On key for car? On key for car. No results. Google said, did you mean?

I said, fuck off Google. I drive this machine. How to replace batteries on key for car? On key for car. And you did it? No. Okay, great. But I know how to if I haven't need to.

You just unscrew the back of it? No, there's like some sort of thing you got to pop. Okay. All right. Well, that's fun. But I can, but I can. can stitch a wound. Can you think of something?

I'm out. I use it all the time. The classic one, which I think has a lot of hits is the double wins and not. Makeup. Oh, yep. Yeah, you've probably done that. How to make up.

How to make up a pilot character so you can get free flights. There we go. Well, I'll tell you. That's what he was searching. Well, I'll tell you. Thanks for asking. I taught myself the ukulele on YouTube. I always forget that when people ask you a question.

That's probably because I forget that. No, no, I'm kidding. Now ask me how I am. Yeah. Because I'll tell you. I'll tell you, you're good. I'll tell you all night long. Okay.

So Frank, he eventually left the hospital after he realized he could put lives at risk. Oh, so the blue baby really... By his inability to respond to life and death situations. He's like, hang on, we've got potentially been dangerous. I'm starting to miss the airfield. I better stop. So he left. I'm not 100% on the timeline here of when this is exactly happening

because it says while he was posing as a pilot still, he forged a Harvard University law transcript and passed the Louisiana bar exam. Oh, so he did the exam. He genuinely sat the exam. He passed the bar. Because this is back in the day as well where, because now you can only do it once or, I don't know,

the exact rules, but back then you could take it an unlimited amount of time. So for him it was basically about eliminating trial and error. Trial and error. So you passed on a third time. B, B, B, B, C, D, A, B, C, D, A, B, C, A, B, C.A. Pretty much. Isn't that strange? So then he was, like, working as a, he was working in a law firm as well.

Again, just, like, you know, people asking questions, he's like, yeah. Yeah. There was one guy. He was trying to sue a doctor for making their baby blue. Yeah, it's so strange. There's one guy who was a real Harvard graduate also worked for that attorney. general and he uh he was sort of asking frank some questions about his time at harvard and obviously he couldn't answer the questions about a university he never went to but he just kind of

dodged some bullets and eventually about after eight months or close to a year he left and went on to do something else the other guy no no no no frank frank only did that so he's asking questions like where'd you study a building yep bricks oh you you were this you were the year of oh i think you were the same year as my friend carl do you know Carl? I think you're lying. There was no Carl. Hmm?

Was there? You're a thief. You for the manuscript. You pretended to be a pilot, a doctor, a baby nearly died, and now you're here. Well, I'm telling the boss. Oh, Carl with a K. Sorry, I was thinking he's seen. I know, Carl.

Good guy. Good guy. Did a lot of, played a lot of beer pong with him. I should call Carl. Carl died. I know. I should call him with my Ouija board. I should call him...

I'm into the occult. You know that. Carl knew that. That's why he died. During the Ouija board. During the Ouija board. I killed him with a Ouija board. I shouldn't have said that out loud.

I've got to go. It's like you were there. I've got a gift of recreating. You do. You sure do. I'm writing down Carl. I think he might come back in the car. You wrote it with a C.

Remember it was with the K, mate? We did say that. Keep up, Carl. Now, like all good. things must come to an end. All good things must come to an end. All good things must come to an end. And Frank was captured.

He was actually arrested. So he's finally kidnapped? Yeah. Yeah. He was actually arrested in France. Oh, how did he get there? On a plane. Doing his Pan Am?

I don't know. That's the thing. I don't really understand the timeline here. He probably just has lots of cash, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, he's got a lot of cash.

Was he arrested on the plane? He was a doctor? No, he was arrested. Dr. Lawyer. Dr. Lawyer, pilot. His parents must have been so proud. He's only 23. I know, he's so young. But, yeah, apparently he was recognised by an Air France attendant

that he'd previously dated, and she informed police. I think it was probably a little bit more obvious now that he was being tracked. Maybe they, at this stage, had figured out who he was. When the French police arrested him 12 countries in which he'd committed fraud, sought his extradition. Right, so he's traveled a lot. He's traveled a lot and he's just been fronting it up. When you were saying he's traveled a million miles, I was imagining just around America

for some reason. No, he's going to... 26 countries as well. Wow. And he's had a few girlfriends along the way. Yeah, it seems like he has had a few girlfriends. Because there was also, he got introduced to a lawyer through a girl that he dated. He seems to date a lot of the flight attendants.

Which I think I vaguely remember from the movie. Again, I didn't watch the movie ahead of this because I didn't want to... He was dating the flight attendants. to try and fit in as a pilot. Because that's what the pilots do? When in pilot, do what the pilot does. When in pilot? As Shakespeare once said.

He did say that. Wow, that's a good point. That's my favourite of Shakespeare's work, actually. Me too. Matt, your favourite? For when doth the green grow, grey grow. So are the bleedy blues. You know he invented a lot of words?

Not all of them stuck. Jessica. He invented a lot of colours. Sounds like it. Green, grey, greedy blue. Brigadier. Oh, boy. Just occasionally I have a stroke

during a recording session. Stroke of genius, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So, okay, so he's wanted by lots of different countries. But he's arrested in France. So they get the first go, I didn't? They get the first go.

So after a two-day trial, he first served time in Pepignon prison. Oh, well-pronounced. I was about to make a joke of it. I'm pretty sure I'm now that pronunciation. I think you did. Okay, sweet. I'm sorry to any French listeners. I did not do French at school.

I'm so sorry. It's fun. Just talk like that. It's nice. It was a one-year sentence. Sorry, what was the charge? Did you say that? It was just fraud-based thing?

Yeah, I believe so, yeah. So I think it was a one-year sentence, but it was reduced to six months during trial. So he's six months. When are you convinced them that he was actually the sheriff? Yeah. They were like, oh, sorry about that. Oh, so. Yeah, they're convinced the judge that he's the judge.

I'm actually, I think I'm the wrong Spots Yeah, sorry, man Anyway, the judge is in jail I'm now So, still there Yeah, all right Um

Have we, do we know when this is? What kind of period of time? So now into the early 70s. 1969, so yeah, Um, The year of Woodstock. Well, he didn't get to go

Because he was in Pepignon In a tiny cell, apparently. His words? Mm-hmm. Oh. Yeah, but he was always a bit dramatic. Apparently he went in there

like 190 pounds, came out 109 pounds. Like lost a lot of weight. It was like... Pounds. Barely had any space. One kilogram equals 17 pounds. Is that right?

That seems like way too many. Eight... 18. No, what 17 pounds? That would mean that 100 pounds is five kilos. He went in a man and came out the weight of a pumpkin. Is that right? Oh, that is a dramatic...

I am nothing but pumpkin. Oh, he became pumpkin. Yeah. No, one kilo is 2.2 pound. 2.2 pounds. So he came out 109 pounds. He was 49 kilos. Which is lighter than me, and he's six foot tall.

He was very thin. He went in at about 190, which is 86 kilos. He's not as thin as a pumpkin. He's not as probably thinner than a pumpkin, but not as light as a piece of pumpkin. When that pumpkin weighs five kilos. Got to put a lot of stipulation on this. Is that okay, Matt? I'm so glad I stopped to Google that.

No, it is good, yeah. I mean, I definitely didn't actually think. Does it help you paint the word, paint the picture more? Yeah, yeah. Gives you more of a mental image of what he would have looked like. So we went from Leonardo DiCaprio to like a skinny version of Leonardo de Caprio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha.

He went from like fat Warnocky to Warnocky to Warnock. Not even fat Warnockie. For our listeners, Warnocky is Dave Warnocky. You went from 86 kilo. Like, if you were 86 kilos, maybe you'd just be all muscle if you were 86 kilos. A lot of, like, I'd say that is a fairly normal weight 86 kilos. And you're not a short man either. No, but I'm not six foot either.

You're not. So somewhere in between. Anyway, basically what we're asking is, can you please put on 30-odd kilos just to see what you look like? Oh, we'll do. We'll do. Thank you. For the role of Dave Warnocky. I was born to play.

You're mid-twicks at the moment, yeah. You've put it on a good start. I have eaten one piece of twicks. There's one to go. And he won't give me the other piece, even though he's definitely putting it in the bin. It's poison. Absolute poison.

We would not do that to you, Matt. What a reference. So after he served his time in Pepignol, he was extraded to Sweden. And then he was a trial for forgery. His defense attorney apparently almost had his case dismissed by arguing that he'd created the fake checks and not forged them. Like, no, they're not forged.

He made them? I don't know what the difference there is. I love it. That's great. And the judge nearly went, I'm confused. Yeah. So it's like, he's swindling, not fraud. Yeah.

It's still so strange. So he's served in a few different prisons around Europe. But eventually, like, I think it sort of got to a point where he'd, served six months somewhere and was about to be tried again next in Italy. But a Swedish judge asked the US State of Department officials to revoke his passport and without a valid passport, though the Swedish authorities were legally compelled to deport him to the US

where he was sentenced to 12 years in a federal prison for multiple counts of forgery. Oh, dear. It's all very complicated, right? So now he's in... Basically everybody's pissed at him. But now he's in proper American jail for a proper sentence, 12 years. Well, like, the French prison was apparently pretty awful. Pretty grim, but it's only a one...

Super grim, and then Sweden was slightly better. Sentences, but 12 years is like, that's a proper... That's a proper jail. That's a stretch. Yeah, he didn't serve the full 12 years. He ended up serving, I think, about five, and I will talk about that in a sec. Correct. There's a couple of escapes as well.

Like, he managed... He dodged him a few times. Like, I think that's sort of what it... In the movie it implies that they're always just hot on his tails, but he just gets away. I don't know how accurate that is. But there's a couple of stories that I read about that are straight from a film where he was, apparently in April of 71 he escaped from the Federal Detention Centre in Georgia. This is in his book.

He says that during his time in a stroke of luck that included the accompanying US Marshal for getting his detention. commitment papers. Abignale was mistaken for an undercover police prison inspector, an undercover prison inspector. So he's like a fake prisoner going undercover with the prison.

So he was like treated better and even got better food than the other prisoners because they thought he was an undercover inspector. I don't know how that happens. He must just have a very nice face. Yeah, he's got like a really trustworthy face, obviously. Maybe you would just wink.

it someone. One wink and they were like, oh, double his rations. But that's it. Everybody's kind of sucking up to him because the Department of Corrections in Atlanta had already lost two employees as a result of reports written by undercover federal agents.

So, like, the... Ross, I thought he was a mystery shopper in prison. Yes, that's a great way of looking at it. So the prison guards are being kind of nice to him. Hello, sir, welcome to the shop. I'm in prison. Yeah. What can I get for you?

That's pretty much what's happening. I bet. But the other prisoners like, like, why is he getting more? Let's kick this show. She'd out of him. So good. So he contacted a friend.

In his book, he called her Gene. And she posed as his fiancé and slipped him a business card of Inspector C.W. Dunlap of the Bureau of Prisons, which she'd obtained by posing as a freelance writer doing an article on fire safety measures in federal detention centers. She also handed over a business card from, I think a police officer. Oh, sorry, the FBI agent in charge of his case. and what he okay it's so hard to follow then Frank tells the correction office

is that he was indeed a prison inspector and he hands over these business cards as proofs like a fake business card what a time when people just trusted your business card I know it's so amazing right and then he told them he needs to contact the FBI agent the other card that he's given

so they call the fake phone number and gene answers pretending to be like an operator at the Federal Bureau, the FBI. So later he's allowed to meet unsupervised with his French gene in a, oh sorry, yeah, with, okay, oh, God, it's so complicated. No, I'm following. Yeah, yeah, so they're like, okay, yeah, you can go meet your supervisor,

so they, like, drop him off. She picks him up in disguise, she picks him up, drives him. Oh, okay, okay. I'm confusing my selfie. with. He's allowed to meet her in a car outside the detention center. She picks him up, drive them to a bus station. He gets on the bus to New York, then a train to Washington, D.C., and then just kind of like, just starts, just keeps running. His plan is to head for Brazil.

He's just like, he's just business cards. A couple of fake business cards is out of prison. He just went the wrong way. He just went north. Brazil's down the bottom, mate. He's an idiot. But an idiot. Isn't that just kind of insane?

And he's on the run now. Yeah, he's on the run now. I know. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm assuming... He did get picked up a few weeks later by two NYPD detectives when he inadvertently walked past the unmarked police car. So he got caught, but he got out of prison.

That is awesome. Isn't that so crazy? With a business card. I know. It's so insane. Anyway, in 1974, after he'd served less than five years of his 12-year sentence. Don't you? It's so, like, I think about that sometimes, like,

how unlucky that would be that the cops saw he walk past these cops but also cops who would be like hey they're like if it was me I'd be like I mean there's a million people everyone kind of looks a bit like everyone I doubt that's them what are the other that is them

we're looking for a white guy okay excuse me sir are you a no you're not sorry sorry I'm embarrassed you're embarrassed sorry mate sorry I'm sorry have a dollar have a dollar so what are the chances anyway in 1974 after he had served

less than five years of his 12-year sentence. The United States federal government released him on the condition that he helped the federal authorities without pay to investigate crimes committed by fraud and scam artists. Oh. Because he's so good at it. Well, they're not paying him. He's like, I'm not, you're not, you know, you're not work for us,

but we'll let you out and you have to sign in once a week and you've got to help us with these. And he's like, yeah, that seems kind of good. Anything's better than prison, I guess. So he didn't want to return to his family in New York. So he just left the choice of parole up to the court, and it was decided that he'd be paroled in Texas. So after his release, he tried numerous jobs,

including a cook, grocer, movie projectionist, but he was fired from most of these after it was discovered that he'd been hired without revealing his criminal parts. Like he didn't tell him. Oh, he's just a liar. Sorry, I just got out of prison, but I really want to show the kids finding Dory.

Come on, come on. Let me bag your groceries. Yeah, you can't even bag groceries? Can't. Hey, your bag, your groceries are, really shit. Bagging, you grossly. In Australia,

bagging means... I knew you were going to do that. Bagging means teasing or... To make fun. Taking the piss. That's an international term, right? I don't think it is. Bagging.

Really? I don't think so. It's us that says back. I don't know. Maybe I'm being very... I don't think I heard other people say it. Yeah, I think... Stop bagging me.

It sounds very Australian. Anyway, and he was also kind of bored by these jobs too. So he approached a bank with an offer. Imagine walking into a bank and just declaring, I have an offer. It pulls out a piece of paper, writes a number on it. 1-1-1-1-1. 1-1.

What do you think of these numbers? What do you think of that? 16 there. That's my mother's birthday. What do you think maybe his offer was besides 1-1-1-1-1-2? Maybe he offered to... What was it to do I reckon? To buy the bank?

He offered to buy the bank That's the guest from Matt, Dave Did he offer to maybe work for them Like he'd been working for the FBI? In a way, yeah So he explained to the bank what he'd done And offered to speak to the bank staff And show them various tricks

That paper hangers used to defraud banks Paperhanging is like a word for check fraud basically So he tells them this is what I did And then his offer included the condition That if they didn't find his speech helpful That they'd owe him nothing Yeah, like if it's not helpful... Just pay me what I'm worth.

No, it's not helpful, don't pay me anything. But if they do find it helpful, they'd owe him only $500 with an agreement that they would provide his name to other banks. And then they all rocked up to the talk. But there was no bank anymore. He'd stolen it. He stole the bank. I'm a bank. He wore the bank to another city.

He's just walking it around like it's a... Portable bank. A new uniform. What are you doing here? Banks don't fly out of this airport. Oh, no. Sandwiches. I've been married six times.

Right. So with that, he began a legitimate... So obviously they were successful. Well, it worked. Yeah, he was a security consultant. Wait, he still exists? He still exists. Frank, are you listening to this?

Do you Google your name? Oh, my God, he totally would. Please get in contact. I've watched him talk and, like, you look at the actions and you watch him talk and, like, there's something so arrogant about him. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. As he... Like, it's an amazing life, but you still kind of like...

Like you're a bit of a dick. Is he quite successful? Well, yeah, kind of. So he later founded Abagnall and Associates, which is based in Oklahoma, which advises companies on fraud issues. And he also continued to advise the FBI with whom he'd associated for over 40 years by teaching at the FBI Academy and lecturing for FBI field officers throughout the country. Is he getting paid this time?

Yeah, I believe they are actually paying him because he's a legitimate business now. Does he look at all like Leo? No. But does he have a kind face? Can you see why people would trust him 40 years? ago? No, it kind of has a punchable face to me.

Oh, man, you've just liked him. That's interesting because you normally love everybody. Did he impersonate an accountant or? I think I read

people very well, actually, and while I think his story is very interesting, I wouldn't particularly want to have dinner with him. You know, you wouldn't have had him at your dinner party.

You'd be like, sure. Oh, Frank. You know, I feel like he's that type. Anyway, he's fine. Oh, God, he's coming around tomorrow

a night. Should I cancel? Cancel? I'm busy. I'm busy. So, just a few things to sort of finish up on. The authenticity of his criminal exploits was always questioned, even before the publication of his book, Catch him if you can.

So what do you mean? So people think that he's exaggerated? Yeah, they're kind of like, I call bullshit. And a few of his little escape plans and stuff like that couldn't have worked. You know, there's times when people like, And then I'd hidden the suitcase for six months. And this example is sort of, like what I'm saying when I say he's quite arrogant, this is what I mean.

So in 1978, after he'd been a featured speaker at an anti-crime seminar, a San Francisco Chronicle reporter looked into his claims, looked into his life. And he made phone calls to banks, schools, hospitals, other institutions that Abagnall mentioned and turned up no evidence. Like nobody could confirm anything. So he's kind of like, well, I smell a rat. But then Abignale's response to that was, oh, well, I mean,

due to the embarrassment involved, I doubt if anyone would confirm that information. Oh, great answer. Yeah, but also like, fuck off, you cocky dickhead. But as he used several names and aliases, it would be pretty hard to... Yeah, so it's interesting. And then even in 2002, he himself addressed the issue of his story's truthfulness, because obviously there would have been a lot of fuss around the movie and stuff like that.

And so he posted on his company's website, this is a statement from him, because I was interviewed by the co-writer only about four times. I believe he did a great job of telling the story, but he also over-dramatized and exaggerated some of the story. That was his style and what the editor wanted. He always reminded me that he was just telling a story and not writing my biography. So even he's kind of like, yeah, my biography is kind of bullshit. My biographer refused to be a biographer.

He didn't want to be pigeonholed. Right. It's a story. So he didn't, it's not an autobiography. I think he co-wrote it. Right. Yeah. But still.

So the book, Catherine, if you can, was turned into a movie, obviously, directed by Stephen Spielberg in 2002 with Leonardo Caprio and Tom Hanks. The real Frank Abagnall made a cameo appearance in the film as a French police officer who takes him into custody, so that's kind of fun. Oh, in Papua New.

Yeah, and that's another thing. He's like, oh, I didn't want to be in the movie, but they said I had to be. It's like, what the fuck would you have to be? Like, you fucking loved being in that movie. Oh, no, I couldn't. Tom Hanks and Leonardo Capriot. There were not the draw cards that they are now in 2001.

So they really wanted me to sell this film. Everyone was like, no, I want to see the real Frank. Make him a French car. In fact, they wanted me to play me, but I was like, no, give one of the new kids a chance. Give that guy that's been around for 10 years. Give that small guy that played a bit part in the biggest film ever Titanic. Give him a go. There is something fun about having the real people in those.

Yeah, I like it, but it's good if the real person is someone. Not just some background. You know? Anyway. How you reckon? Yeah, in another Leo movie, the... one about the wolf The Wolf of Wall Street? The Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, the

real guy was in at the end. Jordan Belfort. I think at the end he's doing like, he's showing that he does speaking now. And I think the guy who introduces Leonardo DiCaprio as the Wolf of Wall Street is the actual Wool of Wall Street. Oh, see, that kind of stuff's cool. Yeah, that's fine.

I like that. Anyway, so, yeah, he makes a cameo in his movie. The movie was also became the basis for a musical of the same name which opened in 2011 Now we laugh Catch me if you can

We laughed It won four Tony Awards Did it Including best musical Best Actor And as he was accepting the Tony for Best Actor I didn't want to be in it

But they demanded But they insisted I play myself I quite like this as well In his book Just to finish on this This is kind of like a nice little quote So the former police chief of Houston once said of me.

This is Frank writing about himself, by the way. Once said of me, Frank Abagnale could write a check on toilet paper, drawn on the Confederate States Treasury, sign it, you are hooked and cash it at any bank in town using a Hong Kong driver's license for identification. A Hong Kong driver's license?

Well, that's the bloody icing on the cake. And who wrote that? Frank wrote that about himself, but he said a former police chief in Houston said that about him. As people have often said about it, me, I am really good and gee whiz, what a good person I am and good at things.

Good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good. End of chapter. Next chapter. How good is Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank. It's just a story. It's just a story about it, the best person ever. Me. So I brushed over a few of the, a few of the details, because I just wanted to get a feel for that sort of story and that

amazing life that he had. And he now, like, just runs a business and a normal dude, and he got married and had three kids and... Well, it's not often that we talk about someone is still alive, is it? I've just realised that. Yeah, he's only 68 or something, I think. Yeah, we...

Yeah, 168. Yeah, he's... I suppose, um, the Back to the Future people, the Mary Poppins episode, couple of the Beatles. Okay, Queen Elizabeth the second. All right, a few people are still alive. Buzz Aldrin.

MySpace episode. Yeah, so you've example there was wrong. Maybe. I'm thinking you've died of love past. I'm so sorry. Yeah, but, um, that was the story of Frank Abagnale, Jr. That is a fantastic story. And it makes me. want to see the movie again

with my dad But we say this all the time When we do mention movies And I'm like Oh I'm gonna watch that movie And I never actually do watch it Sorry listeners If you're like

Oh I wonder when Jess watched Titanic I didn't watch Titanic I didn't watch Titanic I didn't watch Titanic I think that was something That was something that a lot of them Would have been wondering When did she do it

What was she wearing While she watched Titanic That's weird PJs always She's wearing him right now I am bloody snug as a bug Snug in a rug As a bug in a rug

Anyway So you know I say Oh man I'm gonna go watch Catch me if you can I won't I got other shit on. I'm very busy.

Well, that's not true. I'm so busy. You see me as? So! Anyway, let's wrap it up. Oh, it makes me want to be a con man. It does sound fun, doesn't it? You're too lazy to be a con.

It's all adrenaline all the time. I like to escape from a prison, but never go to prison. Okay, there we go. Yeah, that's the hard part. I like it, though. I'm not sure how to get around that for you, though. Like your moxie. Maybe some sort of...

You would be somebody's bitch within seconds in prison. You would be my bitch in prison. Yeah, I'm in a women's prison. Oh, there's been some sort of horrible mix-up. And everyone's winking at me, they're like, this guy must be some sort of undercover guy. Let's be nice to him and give him lots of food. I like that you assume we would still think you're a guy.

I would honestly prefer to get a women's prison. I reckon if you, I mean, because you have to shower together and something. I think when you see his little pecker, you will realize. We'd figure it out. Maybe it's so small. What do you mean, maybe? Hey. You haven't even, you haven't seen it.

You can't see it. No, okay. I don't want to talk about Dave's pecker anymore. I'd like to go now. We're all done. Done now. A peck, peck, peck. Well, before I thank you, listener,

we're going to thank Jess Perkins for a fantastic report and to Ryan, the man, the magic, the myth of legend that has inspired the topic. Thank you, Ryan. Thanks, Ryan. Thank you, Ryan. If you want to get in contact like Ryan did on email, the email is do go on pod at gmail.com. Yep. But if you're a Twitter guy or gal,

It's at Do Go On Pod for the handle. And even if you're not doing a suggestion, you can always tag us on Twitter and if you do a shout out about the episode, if you enjoy this, share it with your followers. That way we get more people on board. And the more people we have, the more the merrier. But if you're a Facebook person, we also are getting a few messages and comments on our wall, which is Facebook.com slash do go on part. It's really nice when you guys check in with us. It is actually. Yeah, thanks for that.

It's genuinely great. And when we read your reviews on the old. old iTunes and that kind of stuff. That's also very nice as well. I was being sarcastic. It ruins my day. You don't like when people check on you? No, no, I like it.

I honestly don't know what I'm talking about. Cool. It's just nice to have contact with people. You're not wrong. Touch me. Oh, touch me. They make that noise when I touch you. Go again.

Ah, yes, very nice. That's a much better noise. Yep, that's fine. And that's the noise that Matt makes every time our email goes off. Every time he sees Dave's a pecker. Oh, oh. I mean, yeah, my magnifying glass broke, though. Boom.

And I'm gone. Well, I had nothing to do with that break it. So thank you very much for listening, everyone. We will take a few days off, and that is what we do every week, seven, in fact. Until next Wednesday, we will check in with you. Until then, thank you, and goodbye. Bye. Liders.

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