Two In The Think Tank - 432 - Europe's Bizarre History of Putting Animals on Trial

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

In mediaeval and early modern Europe, there are many documented examples of animals being accused and tried for criminal offences, in this week's episode we are going to delve into this bizarre chapter of history!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 06:16 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSupport the show on Apple podcasts and get bonus episodes in the app: http://apple.co/dogoon Live show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/Check out our merch: https://do-go-on-podcast.creator-spring.com/ Check out our AACTA nominated web series: http://bit.ly/DGOWebSeries​ Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:historytoday.comTHE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION AND CAPITAL PUNISHMENT OF ANIMALS by Edmund P. Evans (1906)Changing Conceptions of Criminal Animals in Fourteenth by LB MacGregorTHE HISTORICAL AND CONTEMPORARY PROSECUTION AND PUNISHMENT OF ANIMALS By Jen Girgen (2003)Rats, Pigs, and Statues on Trial: The Creation of Cultural Narratives in the Prosecution of Animals and Inanimate Objects by Paul Schiff Berman Walter, E. V. (1985) "Nature on Trial: The Case of the Rooster That Laid an Egg," Comparative Civilizations Review: Vol. 10: No. 10, Article 7. historic-uk.com/history.co.uk/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Just jumping in really quickly at the start of today's episode to tell you about some upcoming opportunities to see us live in the flesh. And you can see us live at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival 2024. We are doing three live podcasts on Sundays at 3.30 at Basement Comedy Club, April 7, 14 and 21. You can get tickets at dogo1pod.com. Matt, you're also doing some shows around the country. That's right. I'm doing shows with Saren Jayamana, who's been on the show before. We're going to be in Perth in January, Adelaide in February, Melbourne through the festival in April, and then Brisbane after that. I'm also doing Who Knew It's in Perth and Adelaide. Details for all that stuff at mattstuartcomedy.com.

We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On.

My name is Dave Warnke and as always, I'm here with Jess Perkins and Matt Stewart. Hello, David, you beautiful son of a bitch. Thank you so much. Whoa. Too far? No, that felt great. Felt great over here as well. What a beautiful 2024 energy.

I know we're a month in, but I'm still getting used to this new year. Yeah, yeah. Of course. Happy new year, by the way. It takes time. Happy new year. I think it. Of course. Happy New Year, by the way. It takes time. Happy New Year. I think it's still allowed. Okay, great. Just.

Just. But cut it the fuck out by next week. Okay. Yeah, this is the last time you'll be saying that. This is the last time you'll be saying that. I think- Next week you start Happy Easter. Yeah.

Okay? Hot cross buns. Yes. Already in the shops. Crazy. I love it. I think it's fantastic. Anyway, nice to be here.

Oh, it's so nice to be here. I love it. Full disclosure, it's still 2023. No love it. I think it's fantastic. Anyway, nice to be here. Oh, it's so nice to be here. I love it. Full disclosure, it's still 2023. No, Josh, don't ruin the illusion. They didn't know. That was seamless. All that bit about discussing the date four weeks in. They don't know that we're still on holidays and not thinking about this podcast at all.

It's all automated. They don't know that. You call the helpline, you're speaking to a robot. Yeah, it's not us. It's not us at the moment. It normally is, but not right now. Yeah. We're on holidays.

Yeah, 1-800-DO-GO-ON. Yeah, okay. We're busy. I'm on a beach. Leave me alone. That's okay. AJ, our editor, we'll just chop this out. Okay, so no worries.

Hey, Jess. Yeah. So, we'll just come straight into this bit. Jess, how does this show work for new listeners? I'm so glad you asked, Matthew, my good friend. How this show works is- Cut that bit. It was not believable. One of the three of us

goes away, researches a topic usually suggested to us by the wonderful listeners, and often voted on by the listeners. They research it, they write a little story about it, they bring it to the other two who listen politely, who never interrupt and never go on dogshit riffs and never criticise

anything anybody ever does. And we always get onto the topic with a question. And just for new listeners, yeah, we're tedious. For the first two or three listens. Then you get used to us. We get used to us and maybe even come to like us. You know, like you watch the first episode of the pilot episode of The Office and you're like, eh.

But, you know, a couple of seasons in, you're like, I would die for Pam or whatever. I've never watched it. Well, it's just going to take you a few years of episodes. It took me three seasons to get into Schitt's Creek. Just commit to it. Just give it a crack. We're basically like your first cigarette.

You're coughing your lungs up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just keep going. Your first sip of beer, you're like, blech. Soon you will be hooked and addicted. Yes. Please. Okay.

Join us. So, we always start with a question. I'm doing the report this week. It was voted on by the Sydney Sheinberg level and above. Bit of a landslide. My question, I don't know, because we do keep scoring the questions. This one, I don't think we can do that. Anyway, here's my question.

I wrote this report deep into the night last night. Okay. And I'm looking at it now going, oh, that's the question I wrote. Sure. Here's my question. I wrote this report deep into the night last night. Okay. And I'm looking at it now going, oh, that's the question I wrote. Sure. Here's my question. What is the worst crime your pet has ever committed? Pissing inside. Pissing inside for Jess.

So, Jess gets a point there. Dave? Oh, what about diarrhea explosion inside? Oh, my God. Okay. I think you both, you split the points this week. This week's episode is about animals on trial. Yes.

That's a great 4am topic. I am so on board with this. Animals on trial. Are you aware that this was a weird thing from history where animals literally went on trial? Obviously, we've had slight experience when we visited the seaside village of Hartlepool. I'm not going to tell that story. Which we all remember so well. I wasn't sure if you guys would remember that.

So, that's- Jess, you'll get a little refresher call for that. One of my go-to stories whenever I'm doing audience warm-up on the project and we get people in from overseas, often Britain, they come in there. And if they say anywhere at Newcastle or slightly south of there, I'm like, oh, I drove through Newcastle on the way to Hartlepool. Have you heard about this? Have you seen this? Have you heard about this?

And then I'm telling all the rest of the crowd, it's one of my go-to stories about how we English people are. And it always does really well. Yeah, they love it. Actually, I don't want to give it away because Matt's about to tell it, but they did something and it's outrageous. Yeah. And you're going to get to have those thoughts that you have

about English people, about Western Europe in general. Fantastic. Oh, anyone from Portugal in tonight? Okay, here we go. All right. So, this week's episode was suggested by Blake Wild from Yuma, Arizona. Sounds a bit like an animal's name, to be honest, Blake Wild, like an animal pretending to be a human.

I'm Blake Wild. It's also very close to George Costanza's stripper name, Buck Wild. Blake Wild. That's good. So, who are you? A wild animal. I mean, wild. Blake Wild.

I think I got over that. I nailed it. I'm still talking out loud, aren't I? Oh, no. Oh, no. I've said too much. Call the rise up, I reckon. This topic, I put up what I thought was a sure thing winner.

It's a serial killer episode about this copycat killer or otherwise of the Zodiac Killer. Oh, wow. And it was third out of three. Wow. Yeah, so I was really surprised. So, is this like one of your filler ones? You're like, I'll never pick this.

No, it wasn't filler. I only ever put up killer, but I just thought, I'm like, this is the kind of episode- I put up all filler. Every week. Filler after filler. That's why I consistently lose best report giver. History.

I'm just doing fillers history of chairs yeah and then uh people were like oh my legs tired i want to sit down so they were like what can i sit on and our chairs were made that's not true dave's the one who does those bullshit episodes history of the saxophone history of the dictionary settle down and history of the dictionary. Settle down. And history of the saxophone one. That's the best episode. You came to my defence and I attacked you. The dictionary was the most popular vote of all of last year. And the saxophone episode won episode of the year that year. I've actually been toying with doing a history of the lemon.

Oh, I like it. And how it's spread around the world. Anyway, bit of fun there. Lemon spread. Little sizzle. So, there is actually, this is surprising me, I thought I found a one-off case, but it turns out there's quite a rich history of animals being put

on trial for crimes they supposedly committed. It seems pretty wild now, but in medieval and early modern Europe, and as it turns out in multiple other places, but I'm going to be mainly featuring stories from these places there are many documented examples of animals being accused and tried for criminal offenses this phenomenon came about due to a combination of religious beliefs superstition and it's fair to say a lack of a deeper understanding of the natural world there are two main kinds of trials ecc ecclesiastical, which is sort of basically religious tribunals and secular, non-religious tribunals. As James Brigden writes for history.co.uk,

while domesticated animals tended to be tried in secular courts, vermin such as rodents and insects were tried in ecclesiastical courts. This is because the former were considered to be under human control, while the latter, supernatural intervention, was needed to bring them to justice. Sure. If you want to get a, you know, a vermin under control. You got to call the priest. Yeah. But you got a dog, you control that with your mind. Yeah.

Just use your mind, fucking hell. Use your mind. Come on Just use your mind, fucking up. Use your mind. Come on. This is on you. Academic Jane Gergen, who I feature quite a bit in this, wrote an article for one of the law journals called The Historical and Contemporary Prosecution and Punishment of Animals. She wrote,

In spite of their non-traditional defendants, both the ecclesiastical and secular courts took these proceedings very seriously She wrote, Like, they took it fully seriously. accused animals with defense counsel and these lawyers raised complex legal arguments on behalf of the animal defendants like they took it fully seriously and there's arguments i'll talk about a few that were pretty successful that were just like they found the loopholes in the law they were able to just like they would to get off a human client but they did that for a lawyer would do that yeah so with the saying a tortoise is, you know, biting the throat out of a man. And they're in jail. Does the lawyer go and have a little pep talk with them and say, look, Terry the tortoise.

Obviously, I'm going to need the truth to get you off, man. Tell me, did you do it? You can tell me. Tell me. Terry, come on. Come on. A couple of slaps across the face. Come on, Terry.

This is serious, Terry. Terry, if you are- If they want to put you in the stand, we can't stop them. I need to go through some questions. Okay. Terry, you can want to put you in the stand, we can't stop them. I need to go through some questions. Okay. Terry, you can't stay silent forever. Terry, if you do this in front of the judge, you'll be in contempt. The Fifth Amendment isn't a thing yet.

Terry. In fact, the United States isn't a thing yet. Okay, Terry. I don't want you to keep talking about the United States. It's not real. It's not real. Okay. You've made it up.

I was up here, Terry. Terry, this is a genuine thing we're talking about here. You're going to be hanged, Terry. Come back to the real world, Terry. Who's going to look after your wife, Tina? Oh, my God, Terry. Terry. Jeez.

You're responsible for a family, Tez. Yeah, exactly. It's like that. That kind of thing. Yeah. Anyway, back to Gergen, which is just a fantastic name in itself. In criminal trials, animal defendants were sometimes detained in jail alongside human prisoners. Evidence was weighed and judgment decreed as though the defendant were human.

Finally, in the secular court, when the time came to carry out the punishment, usually lethal, youthily lethal, youthily lethal, the court procured the services of a professional hangman who was paid in a like manner as for any other more traditional executions he performed. Oh, good luck hanging a snake. They're all neck. It'd be easy then. They're all neck.

Oh, yeah. I don't know. If you hung it, they'd just sort of wriggle around and you'd go, shit. Oh, that's true. They could sort of slither around. Good luck hanging a rugby union player. They're no neck. No neck. I think that's true. Yeah, they could sort of slither out of it. Slither out. Good luck hanging a rugby union player. Yeah, no neck. No neck. I think that's what you meant.

What about a rugby union playing snake? Can't happen. Holy shit. There's nothing in the rule book, though. Yeah. This changes everything. Oh. We've got a snake in a scrum half?

Is that allowed? Scrum half a position? Scrum half, yes. Well, Parramatta are allowed eels out there. Why aren't we allowed a snake? A loose head prop. Man, they got great position names. So, yeah, they were fully legit things.

It's so wild to me to think about this. But, you know, they're serious in court, very straightfaced going. Wearing the full wigs, everything's on. Full silk. According to Gergen, the earliest animal prosecution for which reliable documentation exists, there are stories about earlier ones, like in the Bible and stuff, but reliable documentation was an ecclesiastical proceeding dating back to the year 824 when a group of moles was excommunicated in the valley of Aosta in Italy. And excommunicated, I think I'll talk about it later, but that basically means that you're sort of like you're out of Christianity.

Can't go to heaven. You're damned forever. So, these moles, it's like you're out. Wow. Good luck. Good luck. But you're not coming to's like, you're out. Wow. Good luck. Good luck. But you're not coming to mass and you're not going to heaven. So I hope you're happy with the damage you did to the farm.

And do they have to, like, take them out to the desert and drop them off somewhere? Or is it fully like, you keep living there. That's whatever. But you're not going to heaven. Yeah. Well, it depends. Sometimes they give them, like, an ultimatum. You've got a certain amount of time to leave.

And if you're still there, then excommunicated. Right. Is that when they started the fortress? Yeah. In the centre of the earth? I think this is where it all began. Why would they have before that? Exactly.

Turn your backs on us. We'll turn our backs and start digging. Yeah. I think, yeah, that's when they started mating with humans to make mole people. Was that their biggest crime? Yeah. I think that was seen as- And I do touch on-

They're not going to heaven. I touch on similar activities later. Oh, okay. Only briefly, but yeah. Also seen as a no-no in the church. Real sticklers. Anyway, this week I'm going to take you through some of these strange but true tales. In this first example, I'll tell you about a time in the 15th century when a sow and her six piglets were arrested for murder.

Oh. Bum, bum, bum. Bum, bum, bum, bum. I wanted to get enough bums for all of them. Enough bums for all the piglets. Each piglet deserves a bum. Yeah. Hey, you know.

In December. I don't know. In December of 1457, the sow and six piglets were arrested in Savigny in France for murder. Together with their owner, they were arrested and put on trial. According to the court records, three lawyers were present, two for the prosecution and one for the pigs. Well, that's not fair. Straight off the bat. Oh, come on.

There's seven fucking pigs here. And you're expecting one lawyer to look after all. Wow. This is more like a kangaroo court. The kangaroo is represented. After many witnesses were called, based on their testimony, the judge ruled that while the human owner should have been watching his pigs, the animals were solely responsible for the murder, particularly the sow.

According to Alexander Lee from the University of Warwick, writing for History Today, after consulting with experts in local customary law, the judge solemnly sentenced her to death. The piglets were a different matter, though, since there was no direct evidence that they had participated in the murder. They had participated in the murder. The judge decided to let them off on the promise of good behavior. Piglets. Raise your hoof.

Yep. Pledge. Okay. Look at me in the eye. No mucking about. Come on. I'm happy to hang you as well. Okay.

Good behavior. All right. Okay. Your word is your vow. That's pretty cute. That'll do, pig That'll do It was right there He had to take it

It's possible that the piglet's behaviour in the courtroom Helped them get off too They all sat very well They looked so cute Yeah, so cute They came in wearing gumboots Oh my god, piglets in gumboots My favourite It's so cute The judge is like, I can't possibly hang these boots Where did you get the little gumboots. Oh, my God. Piglets in gumboots. My favourite.

It's so cute. The judge is like, I can't possibly hang these boots. Where did you get the little gumboots? Secretly there thinking, I'm going to tear the throat out of that judge after this. You're so cute. Let me off. And it'll be the last mistake you make. That's it.

It's animal fun. You killed my mother. You killed my mother. They're wearing pants, walking on my hind legs. Hello. Mother. Wearing pants, walking on my hind legs. Yeah.

Hello. But no, apparently their behaviour would be taken into consideration. Wow. In the courtroom. As Philip Jamison writing for Cambrian Law Review said, in court, pigs would frequently act disrespectfully, grunting, squealing and trying to poke their noses through the bars of the prisoner's box. Disgusting. Disgusting. Disgusting.

How dare they be so disrespectful? Don't they not? I mean, you're only hurting yourselves, guys. Let's think about this. You take your dog into a courtroom. What's he doing? Crying. Yes.

Probably peeing. Yep. Sniffing. Yep. Eventually barking. Showing remorse. Licking. Begging for forgiveness.

Now beg. Your dog? Jumping on everybody. Probably pissing. Because he gets so excited to take a piss. If anybody has a soccer ball in the courtroom for whatever reason, he's destroying that ball. Now, realise that they are basically treating the animals as if they were humans. Yeah.

So, you picture Goose. Yeah, as a person. Your French bulldog. Yes. It's a person. Yes. In court doing those things. What's the jury saying?

Well, I honestly think he'd be getting off because they'd be like, well, he's clearly insane. He's pissed everywhere and he's biting a soccer ball. He's walking around on all fours. Why are we here? This poor man needs help, they'll say. But when it's a dog, it's biting a soccer ball He's walking around on all fours Why are we here? This poor man needs help They'll say But when it's a dog it's kind of funny Please get it some pants

Oh no you'd have him in pants Respect for the judge We're not a nudist family He'd piss his pants But he's got pants on I don't need anybody seeing my dog's genitals Probably I feel like I'm laughing like Mutley. Yeah.

Which would be a dog in a lot of trouble in the criminal court system. So Jamison goes on to say, an animal that remained quiet during proceedings would, on the other hand, receive a certain measure of consideration for its demeanour. Okay. So, you're like, hey, this looks like a respectful pig. Yeah. That pig, it walked in, it sat down.

It's very cute. Its legs are kind of, the back legs are kind of to one side. Your Honour. It looks so cute. Do you see this pig? Yeah. This cute pig. This beautifully behaved pig.

This pig couldn't kill. Look at those eyes. They're human-like eyes. Pigs have human eyes, is that right? No, they've got pig eyes, don't they? Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm getting confused with humans.

They have human eyes. Yeah, human do. But some humans do have tiny little pig eyes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's true. I want to know what pig eyes look like now excuse me i think if you i think they have human eyes like if you saw yeah yeah if you just saw

i'm sure alice in trombone maybe had like that looks like donald trump yeah that first one looks like donald trump's eye and that's a pig eye so yeah you go. He's a human, we think. Anyway, very strange stuff. Yep. And, yeah, so that was a French case. So, all those, me saying, your honour, would obviously be, and stuff like that. And where was this case taking place again? Savigny.

Yes. I think is how you say that. Uh-huh. Very strange stuff. But apparently this was not unique back then, particularly in France. The earliest recorded pig trial took place just outside Paris in 1266. Oh, only 700 years before the Saints won their one and only VFL-FL Premiership. Over the following centuries, they happened over other parts of Enfance.

Is that right? Am I saying that right? Yes. Yep. Correct. How do French people say France? They probably don't say France. We live in France.

What do they say, Dave? They say français. Other parts of français and in other parts of Europe, including Italia and Deutschland. Another trial. That's Germany. Italia. Is that what they say? Italia.

Italia. How fucking dare you. I don't have to remind you my heritage, do I? I think you do. Italia. One 16th Swiss Italian. That's a regional accent I've put on there. Up on the Swiss.

That's right, yes. Italia border. It's very Swiss how you sound, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Ah, wee, wee, wee. C, C, C. Yeah, yeah. Oui, oui, oui.

C, C, C. Another trial occurred in 1386 in what is known as the case of the pigs of Sons. Which is it? Of Sons? Of Sons. Sons. That's a place in France. Sons.

Place in Francais. Sons. Sons. Sons. Sons. Dave, have a go. Sons. Sons.

Sons. Sons. Sons. I looked up a pronunciation video and the guy said, when it's a verb, it's sont. You don't say the final S. And when it's a noun, you say sont. Right. But you didn't get the guy's, welcome back.

Thank you so much for joining us here today. I'm about to tell you how to pronounce a word. And the word today is a German word. Here we go. Okay. The word is Berlin. Berlin. I is a German word. Here we go. Okay, the word is Berlin. Berlin. Berlin.

I love that guy. I love that guy too. I love him so much. But also, like, how can I trust him? He speaks, he knows so many different languages. Oh, welcome back to the day. Berlin. Berlin.

It is an Irish name. Irish name. It's so good. Ian. It is an Irish name Irish name It's so good Ian He needs to release a podcast of just talking for an hour And that perfect sleep podcast Beautiful So this one was very similar to the Savigny case

Where a group of pigs Or I think in France they call them Polk Is that right? A group of polk or pigs were accused of murder. Are they murdering people? Yes. Okay.

Not other pigs. I don't get specific because it's usually children. Pretty gross? Okay. Oh, okay. Yes. We will shut up. I was going to say, how do they do it?

But we don't want to know. This time, though. I'll tell you how I'd do it do it? But we don't want to know. This time, though. I'll tell you how I'd do it. Well, and it's clearly not the pig's fault, right? Tell you how I'd murder a kid. Too far. Okay. Today, I'm going to tell you how I would murder a kid.

Pigs. Pigs. I would use a pigs. Pigs I would use a pigs So yeah this time Apparently and like with all these things Slightly different retellings of these Multi century old court cases

Yeah But it sounds like all the pigs were found guilty Following the verdict Or perhaps even to just enter court In the first place It's believed the pigs were dressed in human clothes before being hanged. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

Before being hanged. Okay. But I also read- Why? Another version that I read that they were dressed as humans to go to court. Right. That makes more sense. Has to respect.

Yeah, yeah. Put on some pants to piss in. But to hang them maybe like you know when sometimes like a dog will like lie on its back and it's just like dick out and you can be a bit like all right mate put it away uh maybe it's like that they didn't want to hang them and just have like these big big dicks hanging in the wind you know yeah because you know the mayor famously of sens at the time, Tony Dirk, and there's no problem with that. That's okay.

No problem with that. But he was quiet. But he was- And that's, you know, it's okay to be sensitive, but he was- Maybe took it a bit to a weird place. Yeah, yeah. He was angry at anybody for having a bigger dick than him,

including pigs. Check out this pork chop over here. Yeah, yeah. Just so to speak. Yeah, so to speak. So to speak. And I also read somewhere else that the younger pigs once again got off. Okay, for good behaviour.

Yeah, yeah, if they promised. According to Gergen, following execution, the animals' bodies were usually buried either under the gallows or in the same location that had been set aside for burying the corpses of human criminals. They were rarely eaten as consuming the flesh of executed animals was considered taboo. Also, according to Edmund P. Evans, and this guy, he wrote this book in 1906 called The Criminal Prosecution and Capital Punishment of Animals, which is kind of the book.

It's the Bible of animal trials. And all these academics who write about it over previous decades, and I'm quoting from ones from like the 80s up to recent years, they're all kind of working off this book. I think, you know, he really brought it to light, the strange history. Wow. But anyway, according to him, Edmund Evans, great name, consuming the flesh of the executed animal would smack of anthropophagy, or anthropophagy, which is a term I didn't know. Welcome back to Daily Word.

We are talking about this anthropophagy. Anthropophagy. Please like and subscribe. It's basically human cannibals. So cannibalism kind of means one speaks eating itself, but anthropophagy seems to be specifically humans eating humans. So because the animals have been tried as humans, you couldn't hang the pig and then eat it because it'd be like,

that's anthropophagy. Oh, right. So it's just wasteful. And a lot of these times are these pigs being bred to eat anyway. Yeah, exactly. So they were going to be killed by humans a lot of these times are these pigs being bred to eat anyway. Yeah, exactly. So, they were going to be killed by humans, but now they're being killed and no one is eating. They're being killed as humans. And no one's eating their flesh.

Yeah, that's right. That's weird. And, like, you're getting, like, the grandma of the village to sew, like, a little outfit for the pig to put on. Yeah. It's a little pig jumper. But it's like I was saying before, very, you know, there's all these weird superstitions and old school religious beliefs and stuff. So, it's all quite odd, especially looking back. I love to think about the things that in, you know, 800 years time, we're going to be like, where?

I'll continue to live. 800 years time, with the three of us, we'll still be sitting here going, buddy. Can you imagine those things we used to do then? Podcasting, so inhumane. Can you believe the things people used to do?? Podcasting, so inhumane. Can you believe the things people used to do? Die. They used to die. Yeah, weird.

I think ever since I decided to just keep living forever, I thought that was a weird thing they used to do. But anyway, Edmund Evans, Edmund P. Evans, said that the animal after being executed had, in effect, become the peer of man in blood guiltiness and in judicial punishment. So, yeah, it would basically be cannibalism to eat them. So, apparently there are a lot of examples of perfectly good pigs and other farm animals being thrown away despite the fact that they could, you know,

feed off the village or whatever. Especially when it's like a group of pigs. Yeah. And some of these crimes, you know, it was just one pig did the murder. You know, the murder in inverted commas. Yeah. And then other pigs ate. Others got charged for standing by and not doing anything. Get fucked. They're pigs.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And they need to clean up their acts. Yeah, absolute fucking pigs. Were the pigs able to argue self-defense because they were being bred to be killed by the humans? I think it would really be about how good the lawyer was. Yeah, okay, right. But I think that could have been a great argument to make.

Yeah, why didn't anybody think of that? They were about to kill her, so she killed them. There are similar arguments made that I might talk about later about, yeah, I think there's one about weevils ruining a crop, and the lawyer's like, God made crops for all his creatures, including weevils, so how do they be sustained? Good one. And I think that did pretty well for them.

Anyway, a little sizzle for later on. Exciting. So these pigs have been thrown away, but this wasn't just for classic mean animals. According to Gergen, in 864, it was said that if a person died after being stung by bees, the bees should be suffocated in their hive before they were able to produce any more honey. Otherwise, the entire contents of their hive would become demonically tainted and thus rendered unfit for use as food. Right.

But they're saying kill all the bees and then let them make honey. Suffocate them all inside the hive. No, the murderers. You can't eat that honey anyway. Only the murderers. Yeah, yeah. Well- No, I think bees can go to different- I don't know, but I'm not a honey expert.

You get rid of the hive and then that. Because if you let them live and then they kept making honey, that honey's fucked. It's tainted. I guess they hadn't figured out the bit that we now know that bees die when they sting people. Yeah, yeah. There's no chance of it ever being. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. They are kamikaze. Yeah. But, yeah, it's funny. Even bees. Even the bees. Even the bees. The bees. Is it only one's funny. Even bees. Even the bees. Even the bees. The bees.

Is it only one gender of bee that sting? Yeah, is it just the soldiers or whatever? Yeah, because there's only one female in each hive, right? Is that right? Yeah, classic. Men doing all the work. The female bees are the only ones that can sting. Okay.

Oh, there you go. That's what I was trying to say. Well, I'm completely wrong there. Well, no, that's what I'm trying to say, though. Women doing all the work. Isn't that typical? As a feminist, I just thought I should point that out. Yeah, so pigs and bees, they're not the only ones on trial.

All sorts of other animals as well. And I'm going to take you through a few other notable cases. Great. There were probably more, but only a certain amount, you know, the records have been kept through the years. Rats and mice come up a lot. Obviously, these trials happened a long time ago and some are better recorded than others.

The rats of Otta trial of 1508 seems to be a pretty well documented one though Paul Schiff Berman wrote about it in his piece titled Rats, Pigs and Statues on Trial The Creation of Cultural Narratives in the Prosecution of Animals and Inanimate Objects Are we going to have a sequel episode about killer statues?

Which you have already done one before in the past About Blucifer. Oh, Blucifer, that's true. Yeah, no, I'm not going to go- I love that I've got this up my sleeve, and if listeners want me to do another episode about killer statues, I'm down.

But, yeah, so he wrote this for the New York University Law Review in 1994, writing, in 1522, in the district of Otta in France, a village was incensed to find that rats had eaten its barley crops. The townspeople took the matter to the ecclesiastical court, which duly investigated the crime, in inverted commas, and then delivered a summons to the rats, ordering them to stand trial. rats ordering them to stand trial. A court official went to the area of the countryside where the rats were believed to live and served a notice in a loud and solemn declaration. So, we've gone out there to around the place and they go,

here ye, here ye, or whatever the French version goes. I summon ye rats to court on this date at this time. Santa with a straight face. It's such a fun image. It's so funny how seriously they took it. And, yeah, like, they don't understand you. But they're like, can you believe how disrespectful these rats are? None of them came out to even hear me speak.

I said, hear ye, hear ye. For God's sake. This does not bode well for them. But, yeah, some people, I think some people have tried to suggest or assumed that these were almost for entertainment or for show, but it seems like they were genuine and taken very seriously. That's fantastic. So, Schiff Berman continues. This seemingly bizarre case then proceeded to an actual trial. The court appointed a young lawyer named Bartholome Chassigny to defend the rats.

And when the defendants failed to appear in court in response to the summons, Chassigny intervened to save his clients from a default judgment. So, this is- these rats got lucky. They got a great lawyer. But he's standing there with the judge going, I'm so sorry, I don't know what to tell you. Yes. They said they'd be here. They said- I was expecting them to be there.

Yeah, just give us five more minutes, five more minutes, please. I swear they're on their way, Your Honour. But, you know, in a, he, but no, that's what, that's what a bad lawyer would do. Oh. Basically conceding defeat. He gets on the front foot. So, he argued that there had not been proper service of process because, in fact, the salvation or ruin of all rats was at stake in this case.

And so, all rats, and not just those in the village with the crops, deserve to be informed. He's like, Your Honour, you can't expect those rats to be here now. This charge is basically against all rats. And I think we need to get the word out to all of the rats for them to have a chance to defend themselves. The town crier standing there going, oh, crap. I've got to go around the country. Hey, hey, hey.

God, I've said this 10,000 times. Yeah. And they- The court agreed and, you know, they adjourned and gave them more time. This is so embarrassing. Can you imagine being en francais? No, I'm embarrassed to be a human. Well, that's the thing.

Are you kidding me? I think a lot of the French stories are well documented, but I think, you know, there are suggestions that these sort of things happened in different ways all around the world. I would love to know if you are the judge. Did they take it super seriously? Were they sitting there going, this is such a waste of my time? Yeah, this is ridiculous.

I went to uni for ages for this. But a paycheck's a paycheck. I've got an enormous hex debt. And this is what I- I really wanted to effect change. And I'm here in a fucking rat trial. And I've just given them more time. Yeah, I've said, fair enough, go tell all the rats.

What has happened to me? I'm glad my mum's dead. She'd be so ashamed of me right now. She loved rats. She loved rats. And she hated the law. So, he goes on. When the rats once more failed to appear at the next appointed session,

Once more failed to appear at the next appointed session, Chastany, the rat lawyer, urged that because the rats were dispersed across the countryside, more time was needed for them to make the migration to the courthouse. He's just going to say this every time. He's like, they've got tiny little legs. Oh, my God, they're on their way, though. How do you want them to get here? They can't ride a horse.

Oh, my God, it's a big country. He got them another delay. Wow. Then- All of the rats arrived. They can't ride a horse. Oh, my God. It's a big country. He got them another delay. Wow. Then. All of the rats arrived. In little suits. I'd like to represent myself.

Shasta's like, what the frick? I got you all this time. Fine. Fine. And they cook it immediately. Yeah. We did it. And they cook it immediately. We did it. And we do it again. And fuck you.

You're not getting the judge on side of you, right? And then they shit in the courtroom and we know that's a big no-no. And just leave fingers up. They unbutton their tiny little suit pants. Take a shit on the floor. Keep eye contact with the judge while flipping you off, while shitting on the floor.

And then say, rats out. Good luck locking me up. Rats forever. That's it, get the rat noose. One by one. So, having been granted another delay, Chassagnier pressed his case for the still absent rats. He argued that a summons implied the full protection of the law

on their way to the courthouse. However, his clients, the rats, though anxious to appear, feared they would be attacked by hostile cats and could not be expected to risk death in order to obey the summons. He's like, they would love to appear, but at what cost? Yeah. You know, the villagers' cats, and this is a story that's written about in a bunch of different ways and places,

and somewhere he said, so the villagers, you need to keep your cats inside. Everybody drown your cats. This week. If we kill all the cats, my clients will be here. Yeah. That's what we'll take. But not until every cat is dead.

One version of the story, they basically said that because the villagers said, we're not going to keep our cats inside all week, they had to drop the charges. That was one version of it. But I've read that they still got done and they got off in different ways. But Berman then writes, although this story may sound like an absurdist satire, the trial described above actually occurred.

Wow. And apparently, yeah, depending where you read, but apparently maybe Chazanet's work in the case got the rats off and helped build his reputation as a formidable lawyer. But, like, just the arguments alone I think people were impressed. It's just the fact that he's getting the case delayed for these rats. Yeah. Like, this guy's good at law. So, yeah, he got a reputation as quite a formidable lawyer. And according to Gergen, he went on to become the first president

of the Parlement des Provences. Provence? A position corresponding to Chief Justice, which is, you know, obviously a big deal. And also, it became a significant contributor to the evolution of 16th century French legal thought. So, he's a pretty big dog. Yeah. Like I said, I read that the case ended in different ways. In one article, which was more like a listicle, so I don't know how much I trust it, but they said that the rats were sentenced to death by hanging,

which I'm pretty sure isn't correct. Like, how are they doing that? Just hanging a bunch of rats. Firstly, they haven't rocked up. You're going out and getting, like they've said, little nooses and stuff like that. Okay, but think about it like this. If you hang a lot of rats by tiny little nooses,

it would just look like some sort of weird decoration. It would. Like what's going on? Like fairy light type thing. Is it nearly Halloween? We're just hanging rats or- That was the origin of Valentine's Day. Yeah.

Hang a rat for your sweetheart. Yeah. It's softened over the years now. People just give cards and chocolates. But yeah, it used to be your hang a rat. I still hang a rat for Dave every year. Sounds like a euphemism for going to the John. I hang a rat. A really big rat. That's no good.

I apologise for putting that image in front of you. Back as soon as I can, probably 15 to 20. Honestly, a gentleman never hangs around. I thought it was a rat. It was more like a mouse. I think it was just gas. So, yeah, like I talked about before, there was the two main things, ecclesiastical and secular.

Usually with the criminal animals who were being pest, like rats, et cetera, they went to the ecclesiastical courts, whereas, like, the murderous pigs and that, the pets and the farm animals and stuff, they went to the secular courts and could end up being executed. But, yeah, that's why the rats, it seemed like, all the other cases, they would just be, like, the church going, that's it, rats, you're going to hell.

We warned you. That's it. Six months of Sunday school, okay? Yeah, okay. Bad luck. You like that? Okay. Oh, you want to talk back?

Let's make it eight months. Okay. That's fine. All right. We're going to do six rosemaries. As Gergen writes, the guilty animals, in inverted commas, guilty animals were usually solemnly requested to vacate the lands or vineyards. They had been devastating within a given period of time, often six days.

The animals failed to leave. Then the church solemnly pronounced a curse against the off the offending creatures for all practical purposes. It was sort of like animal excommunication in which the maleficent animals were considered damned. Oh, my gosh. All right. Well. What? We gave you six days.

Still hanging about? Enjoy hell for eternity. Happy? Well, you shouldn't be. We've been more than reasonable. Okay. Couldn't have been more patient. Unbelievable.

These rats. If this is what you want, we don't want to do this. No. Okay, but. This is horrifying for us. You've made your beds. Yeah, your tiny little rat beds. You've made your little rat beds, now you're going to have to rat sleep in those rat beds. But yeah, as strange

as it was, it could be seen as a win-win for the church as well, as Gergen writes, if the pests left, then the church's anathema had worked alternatively if the pests remain then the anathema's failure could be attributed to the sins of the people oh they didn't leave well i guess that's because you guys have been sinful honestly come on it's a sweet loophole for the church We're so dumb Humans It's so embarrassing

I don't know To me I've You know I grew up fully believing in all that stuff You know I still love to believe in some of it But the

Back then they didn't know They didn't know why anything happened They're putting rats on trial Okay I mean it's a bit That I think is fucking stupid Okay You know what

I've met some pretty evil animals out there. I just want to stand up for humans. I'll cut you. He gets that from me. I just want to stand up for humans here. And I think, you know. Humans are so dumb. No, you're right.

Humans are bad. It's so funny that they're like, all right, well, this pig has murdered on purpose. And it is an evil sitting pig. It's so funny. Let's make him wear pants. Come into the courtroom. Here we go. Okay.

Go. You push me like a disappointed parent. Now I've got to hang a pig. Can't eat it. Don't eat the pig. What a waste. You've wasted your life, young man. Because, like, best case scenario for this pig, it's found innocent.

It grows up. What, they slit its throat, then six weeks later it's bacon anyway? Yeah. Living out its purpose. That's the best case scenario. Yeah. The funny thing is, and you might not have considered this, the pig has no idea what's going on.

No. The pigs are just like, why am I inside? Yeah, why am I here now? What's going on? And they're just seeing humans go, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, which is Matt speaking French. Jess, how dare you say that? Sorry, I'm not doing the hand gesture.

Yeah, but what you said was pretty offensive. It was a bit crook, but only you understood. Oh. Hey! Fair enough. Is that what it'sant do, Fred? Yeah. But as always, the hand gesture is this, and then you go, ha, ha, ha.

Savant-y. Savant-y. Savant-y. Savant-y. Savant-y. Savant-y. Savant-y. Savant-y.

Savant-y. Savant-y. Savant-y. Savant-y. That's you doing Shaggy French. En force. Yeah. Savant-y.

In 1993, a film titled The Hour of the Pig, or later released in America as the much duller The Advocate, was released. That sucks. And it was loosely based on the great lawyer Chazonnet's career of trying to get animals off. And Colin Firth plays the lead role. The lead pig. No, no, the chardonnay. He's a very versed top. He's very good.

Very versed top. 1993, Firth as well. He can do drama. He can do romantic comedies. He can do oink. He can do oink like no one else can do oink. But these days, I would say pigs should play pig characters. Oink-sploitation.

Films of the 1990s. Yeah. I think underrated. Beautiful sob-jodra, as the French might say. A beautiful sob-jodra. A beautiful... Donald Duck on trial. Well, if he plays his cards wrong

he's walking around with no pants on he refuses to put on a top and no pants yeah mate he's got a bloody trial don't you worry about that if you're like if you're gonna put on some clothes yeah

let's cover the junk yeah you got a corkscrew dick mate cover it up I was driving along the other day and it was like a it was a Sunday morning and we drove like a it was a sunday morning um and and we drove along and there was a guy on the as a cafe like on the street you know sitting at he's

sitting at a table on the street well he's not sitting he's standing he's talking to people that are sitting there he's got um sort of blue dark blue jeans on nothing on the the top, really, like, kind of gross slicked back hair. And just something about the way he was standing there, the body language, the gesticulation. I was like, he looks like the biggest arsehole I've ever seen in my life. No shirt on. The reverse Daffy.

Oh, it was awful. It was reverse Donald. Sorry, Daffy's just full nude. Yeah, the half Daff. What are you thinking? I was just like- He looks like a fucking tool. You're the worst person to get stuck in a conversation with,

and he thinks he's God's gift. And I was like, you suck. And then you wind down the window and say, hey, you, stop talking to him. He's really bored. Yeah, that's what I did say. Yeah. And then, yeah, he started crying. And I was like, I don't care about your feelings that I've hurt.

Turns out he lost his shirt in a horrible accident. Yeah. And it turned out- He was actually a saint. When you were pointing a finger at him, three fingers were pointing back at you. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm shirtless. And one thumb was pointing up at the sky. Yeah.

So, it makes you think. It does make you think, doesn't it? Who was obviously involved as well. One for the big guy. He credited it all. One for the big guy. Thumbs up for you, big guy. Can I have that for stand-up?

So, Matt is trying to write his new show at the moment or he's trying new material and you are desperate. Everything you come up, you go, could that be something? And I didn't even really say that. That was your line about the thumb. You can have it, but people will know. People will know. If you go see Matt this year and he does that joke,

I hope it will kill, but I hope people yell out, Dave. Yeah. Damn it. Edit that bit out, hey, Joe. Honestly, I'm not doing any stand-up this year, so please go for it. I mean, I gave you the set-up. You just did the funny bit. Shut up.

Okay? Shut up. I did the easy bit. I did the funny bit. Shut up. Okay. Shut up. I did the easy bit. I did the easy bit. The concept. That's the hard bit. Yeah. So, those rats on trial.

I read a bunch of other ones with similar trials with rats or mice being charged for ruining crops. Or in another example, termites. All right. Get out the news. It doesn, get out the noose. It doesn't get much smaller than that. I caught a gherkin in- Yeah, we put them on trial.

They started eating the pew. The ultimate disrespect. The disrespect. Couldn't believe it. Right in front of her eyes. Oh, God. These dogs. Vandalism, writing their name in the wood with their teeth.

She knows what they're doing. Unbelievable. So disrespectful. their teeth. She knows what they're doing. Unbelievable. So disrespectful. Courtney Gergen, in 1713, sorry about the pronunciation here.

This is Portuguese, Dave. You mentioned it before. Piedade no Maranhão, in Brazil. A Franciscan, or Franciscan monastery was overcome by termites. The insects reportedly devoured the friars' food, destroyed their furniture, and even threatened to topple the walls of the monastery. They threatened. Don't push me. Hey, you.

If you don't fucking give us $400,000, I'll topple this, I will. This is all gone. I'll go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'll do it. I'll do it. And I got made to. And guess what? I'm a little peckish. Okay. I'll do it. I'll do it. And I got mates on it. And guess what? I'm a little peckish.

Yeah. All right. You know, Big Greg. Oh, you don't want to fuck with Big Greg, mate. He hasn't eaten in days. What, four suitcases? Unmarked pills? I'll know.

I'll know. I'll know. I'll check them. Yeah. I'll nibble them. Don't make me sick, Big Greg. I'll nibble them.. I'll check them. I'll nibble them. Don't make me sick, big Greg, only you. So menacing. And the monks are like, what can we do? What's happening?

We have to turn to the sheriff. These threatening termites. We need to take this to ecclesiastical court, which I don't like to do because it's so hard to say. So the friars requested an act of interdiction and excommunication from the bishop, and the termites were summoned to appear before an ecclesiastical tribunal. At the proceeding, the lawyer appointed to defend the insects argued that because they were God's creatures, the termites were entitled to sustenance. Oh, this is what I was talking about before. It wasn't weevils.

Apologise for that. I imagine- Termites hate getting mixed up with weevils. Being told you're representing the termites. Yeah. This could be my big break. This did huge things for the pig guy in France. He ended up being the top dog.

He was huge. The trial ended with a compromise in which the friars promised to provide suitable habitat for the termites, who in turn were commanded to go and remain at that site. The proceeding was typical of the ecclesiastical trials in the strict adherence to legal procedure, the types of arguments made on behalf of the animal defendants, and the proposed compromise by the people alleging harm. They're like, I think that makes way more sense. They haven't gone, we're killing the termites.

They're going, hey, termites, we've got another spot for you, okay? You're over here. Fair's fair. You guys are over here. You can eat all of that until your heart's content. Yeah, that's right. The Protestant church. Go nuts. Go nuts over there. That's fine. Bring a friend. That's yours. Yep. The Protestant church. Go nuts.

Go nuts over there. That's fine. Bring a friend. That's yours. Yep. Or vice versa. I don't know if this is Catholic. Which one's a-

No, monastery's a Catholic, right? Anyway, it doesn't matter. But, or- I don't know. Oh, I'm sweating all of a sudden. I don't want to- Yeah, anyway. So, yeah. I don't want to Yeah anyway So yeah

And like obviously the termites Don't understand that No because they're termites Even less than the pigs Franciscan? Yes You're talking Catholic baby Thank you so much I thought I was on the money there

What a relief though You really don't want to Start up any troubles Weevils? Oh no You really don't want to Like I don't want to start up any troubles Okay Weevils Oh god Several smaller protestant franciscan orders exist As well notably in the anglican and lutheran

Traditions Odds are If you're a betting man Oh god Either way Insert the joke still works. They put them on whoever the opposite. Yes.

The joke works, and that's all that matters. Yeah. And it was a good joke. Okay. Very clever. So, that was termites. We also had weevils on trial. Oh, there are weevils.

Yeah, there are weevils. According to Uga Needham, writing for the Sydney Criminal Lawyers website, wine growers in Bordeaux were angered by the fact that a group of weevils were devouring their prized grapes. They brought the matter to the attention of authorities who brought the weevils before an ecclesiastical court. The weevils were appointed a lawyer named Claude Moel, who argued that God made plants for all animals to consume. Okay. When I said the weevil before, I was talking about the weevils. Okay. Is this the most tedious episode since the last one I did?

So the weevils were appointed a lawyer named Claude Moel who argued that God made plants for all animals to consume, not just humans, and that the weevils were just doing what came natural to them. It's so logical. Yeah. It's like, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

The argument worked to an extent, rather than executing the hapless animals, the ecclesiastical judge, which I don't think they could have done anyway, but the ecclesiastical judge- I'm going to shoot the weevils. Ordered that public prayers be held. Another plague of weevils returned 30 years later. So this is like what I was talking about before. So the church says, all right, weevils, we're going to pray for you, but you better ship up or shape out.

The opposite of that. Yeah. Shape up or ship out. There it is. That saying hadn't quite settled. Yeah, they were figuring it out. Yeah, yeah. And then they went away.

So everyone's like, oh, thank you so much, Ecclesiastical Tribunal. You did it. Yet again. 30 years ago. Holy shit, they have done it. They did it. But, yeah, 30 years they came back and were subjected to a lengthy trial involving some of the greatest legal minds of the day.

Unfortunately, we will never know their fate as the page of the archives that recorded the verdict has been destroyed. Evans, the great man, Edmund Evans, the guy who wrote the Bible on all of this stuff, has suggested, and this is good stuff, this way is the goat, he suggested that the page may have been eaten by weevils who were unhappy about the verdict. Oh, that's good. I can only assume that's true.

Yeah. Because what other explanation is there? I think it's a good point. And weevils are notoriously very good readers. Yes. Yes, voracious. Yeah. And vivacious.

Prolific. And not just like, they don't just stick to one genre. No, they have it all. Yeah. One minute they're doing romance, then they're doing Roman history. Yeah. Anything with Rome. Yeah, all the rows.

Can't be stopped. Rowing 101. That's why they love vineyards. They love rows. Exactly. Yep. Rows as far as the eye can see. Can I put, for listeners who aren't on the Patreon,

we do a yearly Do Go On Awards, and the one just gone, we did the first annual Best Evan Award. Can I put up Edmund Evans for Best Evan for this year? That's a good early nominee. Yeah. Anyway, animals could be charged for being pests in other ways than just spoiling crops, as our great mate Gergen writes. In one reported instance, a group of swallows disrupted churchgoers

with their chirping and earned the additional vexation of Egbert, Bishop of Trier in Germany, when they sacrilegiously defiled his head and vestments with their droppings when he was officiating at the altar. Are you saying they shat on his head whilst he was giving a little speech? Yeah, in church. That's, I mean, that's making it. That's pretty disrespectful. I've been to Mass a lot of times, and that would have really added a bit of something to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the one you're remembering.

As a kid, I'm going, that, yeah. Yeah. They blur together. That was the best church ever. Yeah. Do you remember when the bird shat on the priest? Father Foynes. It was the name of my priest.

Father McKay was mine. Father Foynes? Father Foynes, Irish guy. Uh-huh, Foynes. It was the name of my priest. Father Mackay was mine. Father Foynes. Father Foynes, Irish guy. Uh-huh, Foynes. And he had a- Because everyone, all the priests give it their own little- A little flavour. A little flavour.

His one was during communion. I'm sure I've told you this before because I love it so much, but he'd go- They'd say, body of Christ and give you the piece of bread. He'd go, body of Christ. Ah, yes, you have said that Body of Christ I was about to say, do you want me to do it? Because I know this one

Body of Christ It's just fun that at some point he's gone I had a little bit of my own spin to this Yeah, and then 20 years later gone I'm still doing this Yeah This is what people come to expect This is what they want to say

They want a big show He's about to say. They want a big show. He's about to say it. Body of Christ. Like, doing that hundreds of times in a row. And he's doing it with a bit of a smile on his face. Like, come with him saying this. No, I don't remember ever seeing him smile. Was he Irish?

He might not have been Irish. This is sort of picture Catholic priests in the 90s to be Irish. For some reason. I think that's where a lot of them came from. Thinking of Ronan Keating. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm thinking of boy bands. I'm thinking of Westlife.

So, yeah. The bishop's getting shat on. No. Yeah. So, where were we? Bishop being shat on. There he is. So, where were we? Bishop being shat on. There he is. Of course.

And we're back. And also the bishop's name, which I think we need to pause on for a second. Egbert. Yeah. I love it. Incredible. So, he's getting shat on. And the bishop responded by levying a curse against the birds.

Perfect. Forbidding them to enter the church on pain of death. Okay. That's reasonable. You can come back in, but you will pay with your life According to Evans, the great man It is still a popular superstition at trial That if a swallow flies into the cathedral It immediately falls to the ground and gives up the ghost

This is back in 1906, I don't know if that's still the case But apparently back then Still I mean, it's difficult to hang a bird. Yes. That's really tricky. It would actually, it would, yeah, yeah, it would just keep flapping around. Come on.

They'll have to land eventually. Oh, man, that's true. Eventually they'd tire and that's a way more brutal way. Yeah, that's pretty grim. Am I saying, is Trier right, Dave? The German place? T-R-I-E-R? T-R. Not sure.

I've never heard of Trier. And I can almost guarantee that we're wrong. Yeah. Trier. Don't worry. I found a guy that pronounces words here. On the internet. We can probably find out how to say Trier.

Let's have a listen. Hello. Trier. Trier. T a listen. Oh. Tria. Tria. Tria. Tria. Tria. That is a-

Tria. Julian Miguel. Tria. I love Julian Miguel. I'm Julian Miguel. He's so- Everything's like- Every word is round.

Yeah. It's up and down. Huh? Yeah. Quickly, just a quick one about bestiality. Fun fact. Okay. I always thought it was spelled B-A-S-T.

Got auto-corrected. I'm like, huh, it's like bestiality. It's bestiality. Is that right or am I- I don't know. Is it just a different word altogether? Anyway, this will be very quick. Last time I talked about this, people asked for a little heads up,

so I'm giving you that, but it'll end- Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Quick two-minute story. So, Needham also writes about a case involving a donkey. Like I say, BCLA, but a very quick one. Won't go into any of the details either. Needham writes, in 1750, a French man was sentenced to death

for having intercourse with a donkey. The donkey was acquitted after neighbours gave character evidence that they had known her for four years and that she was virtuous and well behaved. The donkey. The donkey. According to their character references, the donkey was never involved in any scandal and was, quote, in word and deed and in all her habits of life, a most honest creature. It was found that the donkey did not participate voluntarily and she was acquitted on that basis, which seems like obviously. Yeah.

Animals can't give consent. Like, obviously that's clear. But apparently in the olden days it was not that clear. But character statements for a donkey. Yeah. And it's so great that the humans did do that because apparently it was quite common for both man and beast to be put to death for such offences. Wow. Like, there's one example which happened in Massachusetts in 1642 when a mare, a cow and other lesser cattle were executed along with Thomas Granger

who'd been getting it on with them. So, I mean, Thomas Granger, what a legacy to lose. Yeah. Not everyone's name gets remembered. So, yeah, that was a little... Little detour. Little detour. Well, you know.

I've looked at it. Now I'm on the Oxford English Dictionary website, bestiality. It is B-E-S-T. And, you know, as we learned on your Oxford English Dictionary report, they give you the origin. It says, word origin, late Middle English, from the old French for bestialite, which is from bestial, from late Latin bestialis, from Latin bestia, which means beast.

Right. So, it takes us the long way around, but it almost came back to where it began. Yeah. And it's funny. I think I'm guessing maybe American English puts the A in. Yeah, probably. Because it makes more sense. Yeah, it does.

America seems to like to make language make more sense, which for some reason people here and in England seem to rally against. Yeah. Anyway. There's a U in neighbour, you know. Yeah, yeah. We really care about that U. What we should, if we were making it make more sense, words would be spelt very differently.

Yeah. There would be no O or U in neighbour. It'd be just end in a yeah neighbor yeah er would disappear yeah water water yeah beautiful language there's no t in water it's water it's w a r d a water water water water glass of water water can i get a tumbler of water i should say um some people did suggest best American accent as a category of the Tugo waters. Best American accent, I think.

Water. Water. I think that would be a landslide to you, Bob. Yeah. But do they also get best Australian accent, which I think that I could get away with with pizzeria. Pizzeria, rise of lights. Another one that seemed to come up a few times was roosters being charged with being unnatural.

And that is because they laid an egg. It was a chicken. It seems like, yeah, it was probably just chickens. But they were just- This is unnatural. But, like, I think sometimes when there's no rooster in the hen house, one of the chickens will start behaving like the rooster sometimes. Okay.

And maybe that confused people. There's different theories. You know what it is? It's just- It's typical because it's a woman taking a leadership role. Must be a man. Heretic witch. People just cannot handle it. Yeah. Rid leadership role. Must be a man. Heretic witch. People just cannot handle it.

Yeah. Ridiculous. Oh, my God. I think, yeah, they said it was because a rooster laid an egg, but it was actually a hen wearing pants. Yeah. And they said, ah, ah, ah, ah. Get that dress back on.

Yeah. Young lady. Either way. Very unladylike. Yeah. Death regardless, but at least die in a dress. Thank you. Unladylike. Dave. Death regardless, but at least die in a dress. Thank you. Unladylike.

Dave, is that a pun? Wasn't meant to be. And not because they lay eggs. Any- Oh, I didn't get it. No, I didn't either. Didn't get it. Well, I didn't mean it.

It wasn't a- Like, nobody would have thought that. Great. Nobody listening would have thought, oh, that's a great pun because they lay eggs. Well, no one would say it's a great pun. I was thinking, no, pun intended. pun because no one would say it's a great pun i was thinking a pun intended i thought it was funny when people will write that either pun not intended or pun intended which is basically what i did in real time now and i apologize for that but it's like you've got

when it's in written form you're like you've got time to either take it in or out plenty of time yep it's like that elton John lyric where he goes, if I was a painter, but then again, no. Mate. Just change the lyrics. Stupid thought, stupid thought. And the best part is he had to pay someone else to write that lyric. And he went, great job, Bernie.

Great job, Bernie. Thanks, Bernie. God, you're a wordsmith. Bernie, done it again. But then again, no. Or a man. I can't remember the rest. Anyway. Bernie, done it again. But then again. No. No. Or a man. I can't remember the rest. Anyway.

Something, something shows. Yes. So, yeah, these unnatural eggs, egg-laying roosters. This one was suggested specifically by Devin Bruns from Cedar Rapids in Iowa. What a great name Devin Bruns is. Love it. Was there not a Geelong footballer called Devin Bruns? Neither of us know.

Sorry to speak for you, Dave. I didn't know either. We don't know. I don't- Yeah. That can't be. That's such a- Neville Bruns.

Okay. Sorry, Neville Bruns. Close, but no cigar. Close, but not right. Do you know Neville? Hit us up. Devin, you know Neville? Do you know Neville?

Devin and Neville. Devin and Neville. Oh, my God. What a family. Oh, pun intended. Sometimes you just say it and people go, yeah. Is that one? Somebody must have been in there.

So, yeah. Devin wanted me to talk about egg-laying chickens. No, sorry. Roosters. Please talk about egg-laying roosters. Love from Devin. Perhaps the best known version of this occurred in 1474 in the Swiss city of Basel.

Writing for the Comparative Civilizations Review in a piece titled Nature on Trial, the case of the rooster that laid an egg. E.V. Walter wrote, it's so funny that there's all these serious legal scholarly articles written in all these journals that I'm quoting

that are just like dead serious about the time a rooster was on trial. It's just so solvable. They say the law is an ass. Can that be worked into my head? You're always not mine. Pun intended.

How's your father? Excuse me. Go on then. In 1474, a chicken passing for a rooster laid an egg and was prosecuted by law in the city of Basel. The animal was sentenced in a solemn judic- This is what they always talk about it's solemn like they're just stressing this isn't a joke they were very seriously saying uh your honor the jury has come to a verdict yeah that rooster did it

um so yeah it was a solemn judicial proceeding And condemned the rooster Really chicken To be burned alive for the heinous And unnatural crime of laying an egg Like all these punishments Smelt amazing And they weren't allowed to eat it

That's so unfair The villagers are just standing there mouthwatering. Exactly. There's a lot of poor people and peasants going, please. They put it on a rotisserie. It's been cooking for ages. It's just fallen apart. It's beautiful.

Everyone on the call is like, do you want to get Red Rooster on the way home? They all seem like full-on punishments, right, hanging in. But humans were being punished like this a lot. And I've just got through listening to a book about old kings and queens of England. So many of them and people around that time just having their heads lopped off. You also think you have a claim to the throne? Head off. Well, you're arrested because you're a threat to my position.

Yeah, yeah. Lopping your head off. But if I wasn't the one chosen by God, then I'd be down there and you'd be up here. Yeah, yeah. So, honestly, this is really looking good for me. Yeah, that's right. They justify it. Well, and they used to- I mean, all of this stuff, it's a similar idea.

They'd go, well, we won that battle. God wanted us to win. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Sorry about that. We won that battle. God wanted us to win. Yeah.

Sorry. Sorry. Sorry about that. So, the execution took place with as great solemnity as would have been observed in consigning a heretic to the flames and was witnessed by an immense crowd of mouthwatered townsmen and peasants. I put the mouthwatering bit in. That's according to the great man, Edmund P. Evans. The same kind of prosecution took place in Switzerland again As late as 1730 Wow

Like some of these cases You're still picturing like It's you know mud floors and stuff Yeah Yeah yeah yeah So society that barely resembles ours But 1730 it's starting to look a little bit Yeah

Like if you go to the country You're walking through those same buildings that they were. Yeah, that's right. I've been to pubs that were around back then. What was the big fear about rooster-laid eggs anyway? Well, I went to someone who knows this stuff. This is off the Murano Chicken Farm blog. Oh, okay.

The owner of the Murano Chicken Farm blogs. And she got into the weeds a bit with this one, writing, At Basel in 1474 appears that a cock was accused of the enormous crime of having laid an egg. It was brought to trial and condemned to be burned alive as a warning to all cocks not to lay eggs, from which it was well known would have hatched a cockatrice or basilisk.

This is what they're worried about. Oh, okay. A rooster laying an egg. Like, this is where the superstition stuff comes into play. Roosters start laying eggs. Those things can turn out to be evil monsters. Wow. A cockatrice is a mythical beast,

essentially a two-legged dragon or serpent-like creature with a rooster's head. It has the reputed ability to kill people by either looking at them, touching them, or sometimes breathing on them. This is all from the blog. In the event that your rooster laid an egg and you did not want this egg to hatch and bring about mass destruction, do not bring it inside the house for any reason. In the event.

Yes. If you don't want mass- But if you do, you can bring it in. Yeah, bring it on in. See what happens. Because the belief was like, witches were doing this on purpose and stuff, you know. But if you're not a witch and you don't want to bring mass destruction. Cannot stress this enough. If you're not a woman in the workplace wearing pants, okay, a demonic witch.

Cock eggs were believed to be used. Cock egg. Alright, settle down, cock egg. Cock eggs were believed to be used in witchcraft, so it needed to be destroyed immediately, lest its very existence attract charges of witchcraft. Just incubating a cock's egg will not produce this fearsome beast, though. A toad must incubate the egg at the behest of Satan for it to turn into a cockatrice.

What the fuck? So, I guess this is why, like, that's not happening by accident. Yeah. A witch has to get involved to do this. Yeah, she's got to get the toad to sit on the egg. Yeah. Although, as time has gone by, the toad in this tale has often been replaced by a serpent. So, you've got options.

If there's not a toad handy, grab a serpent. Yeah, great. A basilisk, on the other hand, is a legendary reptile reputed to be a serpent king which was hybrid from a rooster and a serpent who can cause death with a single glance they're quite similar the basilisk is alleged to be hatched from a cockerel uh by a cockerel from the egg of a serpent or toad so basically the reverse cockatrice right One's a toad egg with a cock on it, and the other one's a cock egg with a toad on it. Say cock egg again.

Cock egg. Maybe these are new nicknames for the group chat. You're definitely cock egg now. Dave's toad egg. I'm still daddy. Dave's cock on a toad egg. I'm toad on a cock egg. Oh, that's confusing for you.

Yeah, I don't like this at all. I don't like this at all. In brackets, Matt. I don't like this at all. All right. We're just throwing out ideas. No bad ideas, but those are bad ideas. So, yeah, you can sort of understand why such a serious crime led to the rooster being taken to court. It's like this thing is possibly giving birth to something that will kill us all.

Yeah, okay. I understand that then. We're getting towards the end. Dave alluded to this story before. This one will be well known to primate listeners and Dave and not so much Jess. Even though she's been there. On one of our UK tours, I made us go on a detour through the city of Hartlepool to see a monkey statue, which was actually a chimp.

They've got that wrong, but it doesn't matter. Won't go into that. And I think we're- Do you remember we went into a pub and I went and asked the- Yeah, I had a pie there. It was actually a chimp. They've got that wrong, but it doesn't matter. Won't go into that. And I think we're- Do you remember we went into a pub and I went and asked the- Yeah, I had a pie there. It was awesome. Yeah, the woman behind the bar. I brought it up and I remember she didn't really like me. She wasn't like-

She's like, oh, yeah, another tourist talking about fucking monkeys. We didn't talk about that monkey around here. Yeah, that was the vibe I got. But, yeah, I think depending on who you talk to- Maybe she was related. She was a distant relative of the monkey. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. She was the vibe I got. But, yeah, I think depending on who you talk to- Maybe she was related to as a distant relative of the monkey. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh.

She was the missing link. Maybe, because I remember her. Anyway, I want to tell you the story via Ben Johnson from Historic UK, who writes, A French ship was spotted floundering and sinking off the Hartlepool coast during the Napoleonic Wars of the early 19th century. So, this is even more recent, you know, early 1800s. Suspicious of enemy ships and nervous of possible invasion, the good folk of Hartlepool rushed

down to the beach, where amongst the wreckage of the ship, they found the only survivor, the ship's monkey, which was apparently dressed in a miniature military style uniform. That's so cute. It's so cute. So cute. Do you think they saluted it so cute. It's so cute. So cute. Do you think they saluted it? Oh. Well.

Depends on its rank. Yeah. Is there respect across enemies? You know, back then. No, sorry. I meant more meant he's people on the ship with him. Right, yes. Like his colleagues.

I would hope so. So, I imagine he's pretty high up. How does it work with saluting? Do you have to salute people higher than you? Surely you don't have to salute somebody the same rank as you. Hmm. You just fist bump them. Yeah.

You say sup. Sup. But you don't say sup to an admiral. No. You salute an admiral. Unless it's another admiral. Or you're a five-star general. Is that a rank?

Probably. Or a sea lord. I think that's an American one. Sea lord. What about a brigadier general? Brigadier. Funny. What happens if you see two brigadier generals across each other's paths?

They suck. They have to fuck. They have to fuck. It's the rules. They have to fuck. They have to fuck. They always say to each other, like, oh, for fuck's sake. We've really got to tell them this.

You're doing this on purpose. I swear to God you're doing this on purpose. I'm not. I've got to tell you, I don't hate it. It is good to see you. I was just getting a sandwich. This is so annoying. This is so embarrassing.

But anyway, back to mine. Come on. Do we have to do it here? Right by the sandwich machine? Oh, my God, if I must. Hartlepool is a long way from France, and most of the populace had never met or even seen a Frenchman. Some satirical cartoons of the time pictured the French

as monkey-like creatures with tails and claws. So perhaps the locals could be forgiven for deciding that the monkey in its uniform must be a Frenchman and a French spy at that. There was a trial to ascertain whether the monkey was guilty of spying or not. So I'm glad there was, you know. And they don't speak French. So, the sounds the monkey's making, they're like, that could be- that's French.

Yeah. I don't know. That's the language they speak. Yeah, just like that. So, yeah. And I liked that there was a trial. Well, all these, I'm like, thank God, due process. Thank God justice has been served. However, not surprisingly, the monkey was unable to answer any of the court's questions and was found guilty. Again, I think this is before

the Fifth Amendment in America, which didn't affect English law anyway, which is interesting. The townsfolk then dragged him into the town square and hanged him. Over the centuries, the legend has been used to taunt the residents of Hartlepool. Indeed, still today. That's why she didn't like us. Yeah, the publican was like, God damn it, man. But no, I think it's mixed because at football matches between local rivals Darlington and

Hartlepool United, the chant, who hung the monkey can often be heard, which is interesting because it technically should be who hanged the monkey. But is that even true? Who sang it? The Hartlepool people or the opposition? I think the opposition. Oh, right. It's not like, who hung the monkey?

We did. And we'll hang you too. Oh, wow. It's menacing. But most Hartle Pudlians. Hartley Pudlians, yeah. However, loved the story, apparently. Hurtle Puddles.

Hurtle Pool. Hartley Pool. Hartley Pool. Hartley Pool, United's mascot, is a monkey called Hengus the Monkey. Can't believe it. And the local rugby union team, Hartley Pool Rovers, are known as the Monkey Hangers. So, they've linked into it. I thought it was the soccer team that were the football team that are the monkey hangers, but it's the rugby team, is it? Yes, but the football team has Hengist the monkey. Who hung the monkey?

We do. We do. The successful mayoral candidate in the 2002 local election, Stuart Drummond, campaigned candidate in the 2002 local election, Stuart Drummond, campaigned dressed in the costume of Hengist the Monkey using the election slogan, free bananas for school children. You've got my vote. A promise he was unfortunately unable to keep. However. All right, I've done the maths and it's going to bankrupt our city.

I'm sorry. The bananas are much more expensive than I thought they were. I didn't think, but I don't buy bananas that often. I didn't know how expensive they were. Was this around the time, this wasn't around the time of the big banana shortage. How unlucky would you have been? However, this appears not to have dented his popularity as he went on to be re-elected two more times. Whatever the truth, the legend of Hartley pool and the hanged monkey has

endured for over 200 years so yeah like there's a strong chance this is bullshit but that that is a story that they've got behind anyway let's start bringing this home um talking a bit about why why these uh trials happen and that sort of stuff so yeah there's all been all sorts of animals who've been up on trial and there's a bunch more, to be honest. Couldn't go through them all. Although, if I had more time, I reckon this could have been about a 10-hour episode. But, yeah, as Lee writes,

although exact numbers are hard to come by, more than 100 cases are known to have taken place between the 10th and 18th century, involving all manner of creatures and crimes, rats and locusts with the destruction of crops, cockerels with laying eggs in defiance of their nature, and dogs with theft. But pigs were by far the most common criminals.

But, yeah, so, I mean, based on those numbers, 100 cases over centuries, it's not like it's happening all the time. Yeah. But it's also, you know, some people say there probably were a lot more, but they weren't documented. You know, it's hard to know for sure. Yeah, because those little weevils have eaten all the documents. That's right.

Sneaky little weevils. Pigs, of course, should have never been put on trial. It's a bit controversial to say, but I believe that. It was a basic principle of Roman law that animals could not be culpable as they lack reason and were incapable of harbouring criminal intent, so couldn't be guilty of a crime. As Lee says, any offence committed by an animal was the responsibility of its owner or the person whose care it had been entrusted. If a pig harmed someone

because a swineherd could not control it, for example, the swineherd rather than the animal would be liable on grounds of negligence. Swineherd, by the way, is a term I hadn't heard before. Like a shepherd, but for pigs? It's a pig shepherd, which I'm a big fan of. Me too. Lee continues, alternatively, if it was felt that no one could reasonably have prevented the offence occurring, the swineherd either had to make reparations or hand over the offending

animal to the injured party. But unfortunately for those animals, areas of France didn't necessarily warm to Roman law and instead favoured their own traditions, which were often shaped by folk beliefs. But putting pigs on trial never really made much sense anyway, as Lee questions. Even if pigs could in principle be held responsible for their actions, why did communities feel the need to bother prosecuting them at all? Surely it would have been easier and cheaper simply to have killed the guilty party on the spot rather than go through the rigmarole of a trial and public execution. Some, like Philippe de Bernmanois, writing back in the 13th century, have argued that as the trials were so patently absurd, and this is back in the 13th

century, the only reason for them to have existed would have been to enrich the local judges who heard the cases. They're like, this is just, they're just like, we're making cash from this. But Lee totally disagrees with this, saying, the only problem with this, of course, was that since pigs were generally executed, there was nothing left for the judges to take for themselves.

Indeed, the proceedings actually cost them money, like I was talking about before, paying the animal defence lawyers. You know, the pigs aren't paying for that. The executioners got paid the same as if it was a human, same as the jailers. So they actually, each of these is costing the crown or whoever money. Adopting a rather different approach, Pierre Ayrault argued that the objective was more likely to be deterrence.

Although a sow being found guilty is unlikely to dissuade other pigs from crime, Ayrault thought that it might help to convince people to take better care of their pigs and also be wary around animals. Then punish the people. Yeah. That would probably... That would make more sense. Yeah. That would probably- That would make more sense. Yeah. And Lee agrees that logic doesn't stack up.

That doesn't make any sense. Saying, as some historians have pointed out, if the intention was to deter, why were some animals tried and executed in absentia? If there was no pig twisting in the wind, what was there to stir greater vigilance so it's like none of these quite make any sense but it seems that lee believes a theory which has been put forward by paul schiff berman who i quoted earlier and berman's idea is that the whole point of the trials and executions was to ritually reimpose order on a universe which after a child's death must have seemed frighteningly random and unpredictable by turning the pig into a human, putting it on a trial, and executing it in public, all with the most scrupulous correctness,

the world was made stable and comprehensible once again. It maybe makes sense. It's somewhat theatre, but they're like, okay, the guilty party has been punished. Yeah. It wasn't a random chance. Yeah. See, the world now makes sense.

Yes. We can move on. We kill the pig we put pants on it and then we killed it yes hey happy sense exactly this pig puts its pants on like anyone else um four legs at a time yeah there was there i mean i won't go into others, but there was another example. I think it was in India. There were tribes from centuries ago that if someone was killed by a tiger, that family would then have to go and hunt that tiger down and kill it, and that would be seen as justice.

But if they didn't, they'd have to at least get another tiger killed, and if they didn't do that, that would be sort of excluded from the community until they made it happen. Oh, my God. So not only are you mourning the death of someone. So I think there's just this whole history around the world of things that didn't quite make any sense, but it's based in old superstitions

and whatnot. There are some recent examples of animals being involved in court cases though luckily for modern day pigs they don't have to worry about uh the death penalty anymore okay as far as i could find oh it's good to be a modern day pig but france still does have some pretty weird uh animals involved in trials occasionally uh as leslie b mcgregor wrote uh in his uh thesis in 2013 in the french city of tours what would that be two tours tours two hours tours tour could you get a man up tours how do i spell that t-o-u-r-s tours so in 2013 in the french city of tours a judge called forth a witness during the

preliminary hearing of a murder case. The witness was a nine-year-old Labrador named Tango. This is in 2013. Tango's a good name. That's a great name, isn't it? Tango. That is a great name. That rules.

And Tango, the dog, and this is in 2013, was asked to confirm the allegations against his owner's alleged killer. The judge ordered the suspect to threaten Tango with a bat, believing Tango's reaction would indicate whether the suspect had indeed been the killer. This is in 2013. Oh, my God. For the sake of fairness, a second Labrador named Norman was brought in to serve as a control group.

The attorney for the defense thought the whole thing was absurd, saying, I find it very troubling for the French legal system. The results were inconclusive and the whole enterprise was deemed a failure. That's so embarrassing. Like, that all sounds like a thing that happened 400 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, bring in the dog and just watch what the dog does.

If it's afraid of this man with a bat, we know he's a killer. Yeah. Imagine being like, you're having to threaten a dog, hoping that it doesn't react in a certain way. My dog got scared of some flowers the other day. He also got scared of wrapping paper at Christmas time. Was that because you were holding the roll up above your head threateningly? Yeah, I was screaming at him.

So, I don't think dogs can necessarily be trusted to consistently be scared of the same things. You know? Did you find a pronunciation there? He doesn't say that, but I do have something else from Julian Miguel. This is a different guy? Oh, no. Me too. Tour. That's it. Me too. Tour.

That's it without the S. Okay. It's just the word tour. When you said, you said I wasn't able to find it, but I found, I thought you meant you found another guy saying it. Oh, no.

I just found him saying tour. I just enjoy his work. Because we do have French listeners, and I know they will be furious. I never go with someone else. They expect me to nail it. Sorry, they'll be furious. They'll be furious. Furious. They'll be furious. I never go with someone else. They expect me to nail it. Sorry, they'll be furious. They'll be furious.

Furious. They'll be furious. That's very good. He's like the bassiest guy ever. Furious. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Can't hear him when you're listening in a car.

Yeah. Vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom. Furious. If Nathan Damon's listening in his road train right now, he's just like, what just happened? If Nathan Damon's listening in his road train right now, he's just like, what just happened? We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water.

We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from Indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Finally, here is a brief story about, and I know Jess likes bringing it back to Australia, so I've done that here.

Thank you. Another 2013 court case, because we've spent all episode thinking, geez, people are a bit silly in other countries. But here's a story from Australia in 2013. Didn't we go to war with emus? We did. Who are we to judge? No, certainly not. According to Needham, animals are not deemed to be capable of committing criminal offences in modern day Australia. But a goat named Gary did make it to court in 2013. Gary's owner, Jimbo Bazoobi... Get Jimbo.

Jimbo Bazoobi is an all-time great. That is Jimbo. The fact that his goat's name was Gary was enough, but when I'm like, I've got to include this... Jimbo Bazoobi. Jimbo Bazoobi. That's almost good enough that I kind of want to change Jack the Hat McVitie to Jimbo Bazoobie. Chuck it in the Jimbo Bazoobie.

That's so good. I want a tattoo of Jimbo Bazoobie. Should we change one of the Patreon levels to the Jimbo Bazoobie? Maybe. Do we have a dud? Are we going to placeholder level that we need to really zhoozha? It's so good. We can create a new tier.

Yeah. The Jimbo Bazoobie level. Jimbo Bazoobie. A million dollars. A million dollars, and we all give you a goat. Yeah, we'll get you a goat if you give us a million dollars. We'll give you one goat. It's an expensive goat.

No matter where you are in the world, we'll get you a goat. Yeah, we'll get a goat to you. Anywhere in the world. For a million dollars. For a million dollars. We would do that. We'd do that. I'd figure out a way, even if I had to deliver a goat.

That's at the Jimbo Bazoobie level. So, Gary's owner, Jimbo Bazoobie, was issued with a $440 infringement notice after Gary allegedly ate flowers outside the Museum of Contemporary Art in Sydney. Although Gary was not in trouble, he accompanied his owner to Downing Centre local court for moral support after Jimbo appealed the fine. Gary spared no expense for the occasion, donning a colourful hat and black bow tie. In the end, I like this, still dressing up the animals for court. In the end, Gary and Jimbo were triumphant.

Their lawyer successfully argued that the offence of destroying vegetation had to be committed by humans, not their animals. Yeah. The infringement notice was declared invalid and the overjoyed pair headed happily home. And that's the happy ending to this report on animals on trial. Well done, Jimbo Bazoobie. Jimbo Bazoobie. I'm surprised he didn't represent himself, to be honest.

Yeah, Jimbo Bazoobie sounds like the type of person that's going to represent himself. I'll field this one. Yeah, thank you. No, actually, I think Gary would have been the one representing him. He was wearing a bow tie. That's right. Very smartly dressed. A beautiful, beautiful goat.

Oh, what a goat. The goat. The goat. I think Jimbo Bazoobie's my goat. I agree. It looks like Jimbo Bazoobie might be a comedian who performs with Gary the Goat. Oh, my God. Gary the Goat and Jimbo Bazoobie were, I'm so sorry, an Australian comedy duo who performed

in Aussie towns becoming very popular. They began their comedy career in 2011, mostly through Facebook and YouTube, with their Facebook page having over 1.7 million likes. Wow. Yes. So, what a tale. What a fun story. Thank you for sharing all those stories with us, Matt.

What made you think I'm going to do Animals on Trial? That's so cool. I think it was used as a question on one of those first stories. Maybe the seven-year pig was used as a who knew it question months ago. I think maybe even one of our UK live episodes, which obviously made a big impression on you. You know what's so weird? I remembered I thought when you started talking about pigs,

I thought when we were in Bristol, did one of us once do it? I thought we did a do-go-on about maybe like a witch or something with pigs. Yes, I did that about something about a witch and like- She possessed a pig or something? Something like that. Yeah, I feel like there was something like that. Yeah, great. I reckon you're right.

It was at the Hen and Chicken. Yeah, we were at Hen and Chicken. Oh, my God. No rooster. No rooster. Wow. Yeah, I'm going to have to run, but can I entrust you two with the most important section of the show?

Yeah, everyone's favourite section, you mean? Yeah. Yeah, great. We'll take over. But have a great life. See you never. Well, with Matt Stewart departed now, it's time for everybody's favourite section of the podcast,

which I believe has a jingle that might sound a little something like this. Fact, quote or question. Ding! She always remembers the sing and he always remembers the ding, even if they're a little unsure about it. I was just kind of like, is that what we're doing? But it's the only one that has a jingle. That's right.

We are into our fact, quote or question section. Now, this whole section, this back half of the show, is dedicated to our Patreon supporters. People can go at any time to patreon.com slash dogo1pod or to our website, dogo1pod.com. Click Patreon. And then if you want to support the show, keep us rocking and rolling into our ninth year,

what you can basically do is sign up at different levels. You get different rewards for different amounts of money. And basically, yeah, you keep the show going whilst getting extra stuff like being part of the Facebook group. We put up three bonus episodes a month. Now there's 200 in the back catalogue that you can get. Access to live show tickets. You can also vote on topics, which is what happened with this match topic today.

We never know what you're going to pick. He thought the Patreon people would go for a serial killer, but they ended up going with this rather interesting tale about wacky stuff where humans put animals on trial. So you change the show, basically. And, yeah, anytime, go to patreon.com. But the first thing we do is our fact, quote, or question section. Now, these people sign up at the Sydney Scheinberg Deluxe package level, Jess. And what does that mean?

Well, it means that they get to give themselves a title. They get to give us a fact, a quote, a question, a brag, a suggestion, a joke, a compliment. A recipe. A recipe. It can be anything they want to share with us. Absolutely. We love it. May I read them?

It's an honour. Matt usually does, but- I would actually love if you did it. Okay, great. I forgot that one of us had to read this. I'm glad you've got it open there. Honestly, at the time of the recording, it's the end of the year. It's 5.38.

We're checked out. This is the last bit of the year. It's been a big day. It's been a big month. Big year. Big year, dare I say. But I feel 2024 is going to be a good one. Yeah.

A good year? I feel it. Finally. Finally a good year. Finally. Jesus, I've been holding out for a good one. Hopefully when you're listening to this, you're thinking, well, it already started pretty good here, so that's good.

Yeah. I know these people always give themselves a title as well, Jess, a nickname. So, the first fact-quota questioner this week is Stephen Edmonds. Stephen has given himself the title, Consumer of Too Much Trivial Information. Is that via us, Stephen, or through other methods? Well, Stephen's, you know, reliably always at live shows in Melbourne, front row. One of our greatest live supporters.

Love him so much. I believe when we first met Stephen, it was in Thailand. Really? At the Coastal Movie Podcast. I think that's the first time I remember meeting you, Stephen. Maybe we'd seen you at live shows before, but that was definitely when we first saw you there. That's fun. And yeah, since then, basically.

Every time we look at a live show, they are on the front row and we really appreciate it. Love you. Love you, Stephen. When you look out and see people. Dare I say it? Love you. When you look out and you see people in front and you recognise, you go, this is going to be fine.

Yeah, exactly right. It's comforting. Yeah, it is really nice. So, Stephen, yes, consumer of too much trivial information. Stephen's giving us a fact in brackets, maybe. Oh, okay. So, let's see. We're going to fact check it?

Let's find out. And just like Matt, I haven't read these until I read them. So, we'll see how we go. Here we go. From time to time, I think about some tidbit of information and can't remember where I got it from or even if it's true. This is possibly a side effect of listening to too many podcasts and watching too many YouTube videos.

One such fact, in quotation marks, that comes up recently was that ranged weapons, i.e. cannons, guns, etc., were not honoured, but instead conflicts- What? Were not honourable, but instead conflicts should be sorted out hand to hand. Of course, heavy or pointy things like swords were allowed. I have no idea if this is true. A quick Google suggests maybe for the ancient greeks you couldn't have a gun that's not honorable if you've got a conflict hand to hand or maybe a sword at most the the weapon has to be uh wielded by a hand yes i suppose but a gun is held by hand

yeah i guess so yeah you're right but you see that often in movies and stuff you know at the end it's the action hero versus the super bad guy. Yeah, and they put down their guns and they just fucking punch each other to death. Yeah, punch each other. Then the baddie cheats and pulls out a knife and then the good guy pulls out a plank of wood. Yeah, and you're like, whoa, he's honorable. This is sick. Stephen continues, specifically for Jess, a related aspect mentioned was that submarines are sneaky.

So a gentleman would have no part in that behaviour. A Google of this one suggests that the bad behaviour of German U-boats is part of what brought the USA into the First World War. They're like, U-boats are fucking sneaky. Yeah, that's right. We don't trust these submarines. I kind of get it. That is what they feel.

They feel sneaky. They also just feel silly. They don't feel honourable. No, they feel very silly. I'm sorry if you live and work in a submarine. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with them. Would I go on a submarine?

Maybe. Not too deep, but I would. But I think they're silly. I think the closest I would, I might go, like, on board. Yeah, yeah. You ever have one of those ones that's, like, docked in a river somewhere? Yeah. You know, that's basically decommissioned.

Yeah. Just to see what it's like in there. But no way am I going underwater. I don't want to go underwater. I don't like that. I want to have very easy access to oxygen at all times. And I know you can breathe inside, but I don't like being underwater. Yeah.

Anyway, unless I go snorkel on. Oh, my God, submarines. They've got the little periscope. That's right. But that's not where they get their air. What? The snorkel gives you air at all times. Yeah.

Anyway, thank you to Stephen. Our next fact, quote, or question comes from Michaela McRae. And Michaela's given us off the title, a brigadier major in the feline servitude division. Brigadier. Brigadier major. Feline servitude. Obviously, someone's got to look after those fantastic felines.

Someone has to, and they deserve kindness. Well, they deserve to be look after those fantastic felines. Someone has to and they deserve kindness. Well, they deserve to be pampered in their own minds. That's right. Those cats. Michaela's giving us a question saying, Hi, gang, have you ever looked at the Google or equivalent street view of your home and seen your pet? I was looking at mine recently to see how it had changed over time

and in the most recent image I saw my sentient shag rug sitting in the window. She often sits there and watches the goings on. I'll paste a link here to my address but I ask that you don't read it out of course. Oh, okay, that's nice. Please enjoy this candid view of Her Majesty doing her best work. That's great. I love this and thank you for sharing this. Of course we're not going to dox you. No, but we'll look at it. And to be fair, I won't remember your address anyway. Okay, I'm looking'll look at it. And to be fair, I won't remember your address anyway. Okay. I'm looking. I see it.

Oh, okay. You can see the rug. I think I can spot. So, it's a tough one, Dave. I think top window on the left. Oh, yeah. There's a little cat in the window. That's so fun.

That is pretty fun. I've gone back, I must say. I don't feel like, can I zoom in? Oh, I can. You can zoom and see. Yeah, there it is. There's a little cat looking out the window. Is the face blurred?

No, I think maybe it's slightly to the side. Because do you remember the old Stupid Old Studios? Yeah, because you can go back and look at old. Yeah, the history. You can go through the history, which I've done with my parents and my family home growing up. And it's funny. And I'm like, oh, that's my high school girlfriend's car.

Oh, wow. It's so funny. Oh, there's my dad's car from that year. Oh, that's interesting. But it had quite a long driveway, so you can never see people or anything like that, unfortunately. But you can see, like, the garden and stuff change over time. So, that's really – I love doing that.

But if you went back to the old stupid old studios, which used to be on Oven Street. Yep. Hanging out in the window, the Aunty Donna guys one day saw the Google. Yep. Like, car driving past. And it's so funny just to see – because they're very distinct looking guys. Yeah. And they're right there.

It's very fun. I'm looking at my parents' house now. The bin's out. Oh, yeah. Can you go and – See more dates. And go to the old ones. I'm looking at my parents' house now. The bin's out. Oh, yeah. Can you go and look at- See more dates. And go to the old ones. I love it.

It goes back to like 2007 or something. Yeah, I want to go back to like before- Nah, the oldest is January of 2008 and we already lived there, but they have- The fence has changed colour as my parents painted it. Oh, is that me? No way. No way. Oh, my gosh. Please tell me you're there.

No, by the time I move forward, there's a person. That's my car, I reckon. Is it? No. Sorry, this is tedious. No, it's fine for us, though. But I just, there was a person walking along the street and it looked a little bit like me.

Let me find it. Yeah, most recently, 2021. I don't think it's changed since then 2008 i'm going to my current house and looking at the oldest it can go is 2007 and i'm like huh that tree in the front yard's still alive yeah but it's really big now that's not me is that me could that be me? That looks like you. That could almost be me.

What year is that? 2009. I did live there. Did you have hair like that? Yeah. Oh, my God. Looks like I'm just going for a walk. But if I try and, like, move on, it's different.

The person's not there. You know, when you try and sort of yeah yeah yeah oh my gosh that's so fun that's so funny it could be me going for a walk or maybe not at all anyway um thank you for sharing that's exciting yeah that picture of your cat in the uh in the window that's very cute and uh i haven't well i guess i have now um i haven't looked up my address but also I live in a big apartment building and I don't think my dog's going to be on the balcony at that exact moment. It could be, though.

Because if he's on the balcony, it's because he's pissing. Yeah. You know? I'll look it up. I'll look it up. Here we go. This is fun for people to listen to us Googling. I'm getting carried away.

God, it's fun though. And I'll be able to see when they put in the new fence. Oh, yeah, the new fence is there on the... Hang on, if I... When's this? August 2023. They've done this quite recently. We are not on the balcony.

But I can see the lights from the back of my TV. So I have little Govee lights on there. That's a bit of fun. That's cool. September 2023. Sometimes it's nice to see evidence that you definitely exist. Yeah. I've also forgotten there was a big tree right in front of the apartment and then they cut that down and now you can see my...

Anyway. Yeah. Cool. Let's have a bike with disco. 2007. Wow. What fun. This is tedious to listen to.

Yeah. Sorry, everyone. Nice to see the trees growing in listen to. Yeah, sorry, everyone. Nice to see the trees growing in my yard. Do yourself a favour and have a go. That's fun. But, yeah, no pets, but I appreciate you sharing with us. Yeah, that's a good one. That's really good.

Great question. All right, next we have Chris Torres. Chris giving themselves the title, Official North Carolinian Living in Ohio with Family Near Gary, Indiana, of the podcast. Oh, my gosh. chris has um had that title before yes i was gonna say and i love it every time because last time i remember saying you're ticking everything off there except for vermont we said that's right um and chris is giving us a brag which we love we love a brag we welcome a brag it's a safe place.

Chris saying, hi, gang. I'm writing in this time with a brag, which is really uncomfortable because I'm super humble and down to earth. I'm really excited. It has recently become official that in the fall of next year, I'll be starting my dream job as a professor of biology. Oh, wow. That is so cool. I still can't believe I managed to convince people to pay me to think about dinosaurs all day. I wanted to shout out to my parents, Bob and Rhoda, who listen,

my partner, Christina, who listens. These are all exclamation marks. And my dumb old dog, X, who watches me listen for their support as I struggled through the often heartbreaking process of finding an academic job. One more thing before I go. In my field, a really exciting little moment we get to experience is the first time we put out a call encouraging prospective graduate students to apply to work in our labs. Usually that first announcement happens at a scientific conference,

but as an American researcher, I figure why not do it in everyone's favourite section of an Australian podcast? So if any undergraduate slash uni students out there interested in doing a master's degree on bird evolution especially in flamingos in california find me on twitter at uh torosaurus underscore rex um that's awesome and says looks like my title is going to be getting a little longer and he finishes by saying, books forever. Books forever. Oh, my God. I reckon you've had your books cut out over the last few years.

Yeah, big time. To become a professor. That's incredible. That's fantastic, Chris. Congratulations. And a great brag. Yeah, love that. Love that.

Because you can be humble and also, you know, celebrate your achievements. I think it's great to celebrate your achievements. I find it, I always find it not odd or, I don't know, like we are great at celebrating weddings and engagements and babies. Yes. But nothing else in our lives. And there's so many other things that we do that are so great and deserve to be, you know, celebrated. Yes, you might, you have a 21st and then your next one's what, your 40th?

Yeah, maybe. Nothing in there. Maybe your 30th. Maybe. But, yeah, it's, you know, and there's other stuff in your life and maybe you don't do those three things of having a baby, getting engaged or getting married. Exactly. Your life is still worthy.

It's still valid. It's exciting. You still have achievements. That's right. That's so cool. Thank you so much, Chris. Congrats. Love it.

And hopefully you've also inspired people to celebrate their victories with us as well because we love it. Write in. We love a brag. We always say it. We love a brag. Love a brag. Share your good news. And it can be small stuff too. Yes. I love a small victory. Oh, my God. because we love it. Write in. We love a brag. We always say it. We love a brag. Share your good news. And it can be small stuff too.

I love a small victory. Oh, my God. Yeah. Love it. Anyway, finally, Patrick J. Early giving themselves the title Chief Effective Detective Inspector of Inspecting Defective Detectors. Well done. I did all right.

Well done. Considering it's like late in the day and my brain is done. She's powered down. Patrick, giving us a joke. Oh, this is great. Love this. Please. Ghetto Legends, here's a joke I came up with recently.

An original. Patrick original. Love this. Okay. What do you get when a poet smokes weed and overthrows the government? Oh, okay. A poet overthrows some sort of dictator, I'm thinking, revolution. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah.

A two-day. Coup de. Yes, a coup's in there, maybe. A haiku. A haiku. A poet smokes weed. Yes, he's haiku. And overthrows the government.

A haiku. Fantastic poet smokes weed. Yes, he's high. And overthrows the government. A haiku. Fantastic. That is good. Yeah, that's a really good stuff. That's a good joke. Oh, my gosh. And finishes by saying, love you all and stay safe out there. That's great.

Which is so lovely. Patrick, a fantastic joke. Honestly, yes. A haiku. I'm going to say it one more time just for anybody if you want to write it down to share at a family dinner next time. That's right. Claim it as your own. No, no, no. Give'm going to say it one more time just for anybody, if you want to write it down, to share at a family dinner next time. That's right. Claim it as your own.

No, no, no. Give credit, but share it. I assume if Patrick's sharing it with us, he wants it to be shared with the world. That's right. What do you get when a poet smokes weed and overthrows the government? A haiku. That's fucking good stuff.

That is great. So thank you once again to Patrick, Chris, Michaela and Stephen For your fantastic facts, quotes, questions, brags, jokes, etc And the next thing we like to do is I usually come up with a little bit of a game Yes, based on the topic at hand Which is animals on trial Yeah

Anything come to mind? I think all of these people are judges Yes And we just have to say the animal and the crime Okay Is that fair? Yep Yeah. I don't think I'm to mind. I think all of these people are judges. Yes. And we just have to say the animal and the crime. Okay. Is that fair? Yep.

Love it. Okay, great. Do you want to go one for one on this? Let's do it. Okay. I'll kick things off. Firstly, from Seattle, Washington, I would love to thank Case Lane. Ooh.

Case Lane. The Honourable Judge Case Lane. Ooh, okay. The case with Case Lane. Ooh. Case Lane. The Honourable Judge Case Lane. Ooh, okay. The case with Case Lane. That's good. I'm going to say Case Lane is judging a... Cheetah. A cheetah? Yeah.

Ooh. I mean, a very guilty animal. Yeah. A cheetah who's been embezzling from the casino where they work. That's right. They are usually a card dealer. Yep. You know, a poker dealer, but they've been taking a little-

A croupier or whatever it is. A little under the table. Yeah. A croupier. I love that. I love that word. Case lane. Hopefully, you know, you're a fair-handed judge.

And we should say allegedly of the cheater. Yeah, exactly. This subjudice is in place. You know, let's not influence the court. But yeah, a tough case. And we trust you, Case Lane. is in place, you know, let's not influence the court. But, yeah, a tough case and we trust you, Case Lane. Do you want to thank somebody? I'd love to thank from Garden Suburb, which sounds made up, in New South Wales, Ashley O'Neill.

Ashley O'Neill. The Honourable Judge Ashley O'Neill, the Honourable Judge Ashley O'Neill. Presiding over a mongoose. Yes. On trial for? Harassment. No, no, no, stalking. I'm thinking of Jeff the Talking Mongoose.

Oh, okay, yes. Yeah, which I guess is kind of like harassment. He's like in their walls. Yeah. Yeah, pretty tricky case, Ashley, that you've got on your hands there we wish you well your honor but thank you ashley i would also love to thank from dublin in dublin in ireland oh my gosh adam french adam french what are you doing in ireland your name should be adam irish that reminds me i'm sure i've said this on the podcast before but when i was in prep,

which is the first grade of primary school in Victoria, there was a girl in my class called Amy French, and I remember specifically, this is one of my few memories from prep, the teacher had to call a meeting to tell the class that Amy, just because her name was French, doesn't mean that she is French. We could not understand that. Couldn't get the concept. No, no, no, no.

That's just a name. That's so cute. That ever happened to Adam French. We had somebody in, have we given a name yet? A case or anything yet? Oh, no, no, no. Okay. Well, we had a girl in primary school whose name was Katie. And then she kind of spoke to the class one day and was like, hey, guys, I don't want to be called Katie anymore.

Can you please call me Catherine? Oh, okay. Which was her full name. But, you know, but she was like, don't i don't want to be called katie anymore can you please call me katherine okay which was her full name but you know but she was like don't call me katie call me katherine yeah and of course being the mature what grade twos we were or something we would run around the playground going katie katie like absolute pricks but i think like she would sort of pretend to be really annoyed by it so i think we were i think it was light-hearted okay but clearly i reckon what's happened there is katie homer said to her mom and dad look i She would sort of pretend to be really annoyed by it. So I think it was lighthearted. Okay. But clearly I reckon what's happened there is Katie and Homer said to mum and dad, look, I don't want to be Katie. I think I prefer Catherine.

And mum's like, that's fine. Just go in there and tell them that and that'll be fine. Yeah, that'll be fine. Everybody will respect that. They're mature. They're seven and eight. Because you'd be called whatever you want to be called. And then you double down on it.

Okay, out of French, I'll say an owl on trial for... Insurance fraud. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It doesn't look good either. It's a bad look. But the honourable Adam French.

Adam will give a fair trial to this owl. I agree. Yes. Adam has a reputation of being quite fair. Firm, but kind. You know, like, you know, yeah. So, I think the owl's in good hands. Do you want to thank somebody?

Well, I think from Wooddale, Illinois, it's Marta Escobedo. Oh, are you kidding me? Escobedo. Escobedo. I'm going to write down some of these names. I don't know what I'll ever do with them. Like, if I ever create a character or something. Don't just walk around with a list of people's names in your phone, Dave.

When you die in suspicious ways, they'll look like a list of your enemies. Marta Escobedo. That's amazing. Marta Escobedo, the Honourable Judge Marta Escobedo presiding over a case in which a jackal has stolen a BMX bike. Whoa. And like a good one? Yeah, like a huffy. Shit. Like a really good huffy. It doesn't look good for the jackal. Do you think the jackal's a good nickname? The jackal's a great nickname. Yeah.

I recently watched the Bruce Willis film, Bruce Willis, Richard Gere, called The Jackal. Ah, okay. From the 90s. Seen that one? That does vaguely ring a bell. It's got the scene where he shoots a young Jack Black's arm off. What? Yeah, it's quite a horrifying scene. Okay, no, I have's arm off. What? Yeah, it's quite horrifying. Okay, no, I have not seen that at all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But most people, that's all they remember about that scene. I know that because I looked at that scene on YouTube and all the comments are like, I've never seen this film, but somehow I remember this. It scarred my childhood. And I had the same thing. Wow.

I watched the clip because I was like, I don't think I remember this. And then I went back and watched the movie. It's pretty good. Okay. Bruce Willis, it's an interesting one because he's an assassin and his thing is that he changes his disguise really, really well. Oh, okay. So it's pretty funny because he's like sometimes wearing a hat,

sometimes got like blonde hair sometimes. So he's not actually changing his disguise super well? He always looks like Bruce Willis. Yeah, of course. But he's got different hair. You know what would be funnier is if it was a different actor every time. Yes, that would be- That would be funny.

They should have done that. That's good stuff. Anyway, thank you so much to Marta Escobedo. I would also love to thank, from Spartanburg in South Carolina, wow, Sarah Faith White. Sarah Faith White. That's a great name. So you watched that name. Okay.

Sarah Faith White. That's a great name. So, you watched that name. Okay. Sarah Faith White is presiding over a trial where a starfish has been accused of committing- Well, actually, catfishing. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. I'll have to strike that from the record because it's not looking good. And, like, a lot, to be honest. A lot of catfishing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, yeah, like, stealing money from people. But also just, like, really breaking hearts. Yeah, because people thought they were on the chat to, like, a, you know, a beautiful blue whale.

Yeah, but it's a starfish. Gross. Yeah, exactly. No, not what I signed up for. That's fine. That's good for you, but I'm not into starfish. Yeah, that's not for me. No, thank you.

So, yeah, there you go. Sarah Faith White, a tough case ahead. I would like to thank, from a location unknown, we can only imagine deep within the fortress of the moles, which we discovered the origin of the fortress of the moles on this episode. It's Chris Wan. Yes. Or Chris Wan.

Chris Wan. It's like five Ns. Five Ns. W-A-N-N-N-N-N. N-N-N-N-N. Chris, the Honourable Judge Chris Wan presiding over a case in which a flamingo. Have we already done flamingo? No, haven't done flamingo.

Has been accused of breaking into someone's fridge and stealing all their yoghurt. No. And they had a lot of yogurt. Are you kidding me? They've just been to the yogurt store. That's when I'm at my happiest. When I open my fridge and I'm like, ah, full of yogurt. Full of yogurt.

I have so much yogurt. So many flavors. Yeah. I made a smoothie this morning with the tropical yogurt in it. Oh, yum. Fucking delicious. That's delicious. What else is in it?

Mango, passion fruit, milk, protein powder. Yes. So then you add the protein yogurt. That's another seven grams of protein, baby. Oh, my gosh. And do you blend it so it's like really drinkable, a liquid type thing? Yeah, quite drinkable. Okay.

Smash it down. God, yeah. I'm ready. I'm powered. I'm ready to start my day. My God, you're like kicking the door down. Well, I do anyway, but I did it with more power this yeah. I'm ready. I'm powered. I'm ready to start my day. Yeah. My God, you're, like, kicking the door down. Well, I do anyway, but I did it with more power this time. Even more power.

Yeah, it didn't quite zap me of all my energy because I had some. Thanks, Chris Wan. Thank you, Chris Wan. I would also love to thank from Holly Springs in North Carolina. I've had the Carolinas today. Yeah, I don't have a fun fact about that place, so you can keep reading. I think, fuck. I'd love to thank the Honourable Judge Karen Little.

Karen Little is presiding over a case. This is a strange one because it's a pretty rare animal. A Komodo dragon. Yes, accused of purposefully switching up patients' subscriptions for their glasses. Oh, my gosh, that would be so annoying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you go in to pick up your new glasses. You took ages choosing new frames. Oh, my gosh. That would be so annoying. Yeah, yeah. So, you go in to pick up your new glasses. You took ages choosing new frames.

Oh, forever. Got to find the right shape, right colour, all that sort of stuff. You're excited. You go in to pick up your new specs. You put them on and you're like, I can't see a thing. This is worse than nothing. And it turns out that's basically every person who's gone to that particular Specsavers. Yeah, yeah.

And it's not just an accident, like purposefully. Yeah. Well, we accused the Komodo dragon of doing that. That's right. Yes, allegedly. But we don't know. So that's up to Karen Little to get to the bottom of that case. Thank you, Karen.

And the motive-wise, what I'm really interested in. Yeah, for sure. Like, what are you getting out of that? Why are you doing that? Is it just to watch the world burn? Yeah, because if so, lock them up. Yeah. I don't like that kind of energy in people or animals

that's evil i would like to think from kedron in queensland it's anita c the honorable judge anita c um uh overseeing a case uh involving a involving a... Hmm. Dugong. A dugong. Is that a thing? Dugong. Dugong.

Yeah, that's food. Basically. Potato, patata. Dugong. Dugong. A dugong, which has been accused of... It's difficult because that's mostly a water animal. A dugong has been accused of putting holes purposefully

in people's parachutes before they go out. Oh, come on. And no one died. That's manslaughter. No one died. That's attempted manslaughter. No one died, fortunately, because the backups weren't tampered with. Yeah.

But the main chute always had these big dugong-shaped teeth holes. Shit. And they got big old fangs on them too, don't they? Yeah, they're fanging it up. Like tusks. Yeah. Oh, that's awful. That's attempted manslaughter.

Yeah. Or attempted murder. I can never remember.. Oh, that's awful. That's attempted manslaughter. Yeah. Or attempted murder. I can never remember. Is that attempted murder? I think that's attempted murder. Because it's like you really planned it. Manslaughter is like, oopsie. Yeah, I don't think there is an attempted manslaughter.

Oopsie dead. Yeah, you're right. You attempted an accidental death. Yeah. Interesting. Attempted murder. That's full on. Anita, you have got your hands full with this case. Yeah, that's a sick dude going over the dinner.

I think that's going to be quite a long hearing and a long trial. Clear the schedule for that one. So all the best to you, Anita, in that tricky trial. And finally, finishing it up, I would love to thank from Sunderland in Great Britain, Keely Ludford. The case of a toucan. Committing grand theft auto, allegedly. Okay.

Driving the steering wheel with its bill. Oh, yeah. Driving along. Crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. But actually, and I would cover our asses and say allegedly, but there is a lot of phone footage. Phone footage, yes.

I've seen a couple of dash cams as well. It's pretty hard to claim you didn't do it, you know. There was a GoPro in the car, thankfully, that was recording. Facing the toucan. Yeah, and the toucan was even there saying, ha-ha, it's me, you know, saying their name. Yeah, right. And, like, saying, I'm doing this on purpose. It was like, oh, my God, stop talking, toucan.

Still saying not guilty. Yeah, which is an interesting plea. But, yeah, there you go. So, we would love to thank, once again, Keely, Anita, Karen, Chris, Sarah, Marta, Adam, Ashley, and Case. Thank you so much to those people. Now we also need to check if there's any new

inductees in the TripDitch Club, which is our hall of fame. Yep. Our honour roll. Yes. But it is also a club, like a hangout zone. These people have been supporting the show on that shout-out level or above for three consecutive years. We've already shouted them out a couple of years back.

But to say thank you and to enshrine them, put them up on the wall, gold letters, all that sort of stuff, we induct them forever into the triptych club. Yeah. And Jess is always behind the bar with, I mean, it could be a smoothie. Who knows what you're making? Food, drink, you're the caterer. Yeah, that's right.

I've got animal crackers. Okay. Good one. And I have making, like, cocktails, I guess you could call them, but I'm using animals. Yeah. Okay. Just like a meat cocktail.

I don't eat meat, so I can't taste test it or anything, but I'm just blending a lot of meat, and I think that should be all right. So, there can't taste test it or anything, but I'm just blending a lot of meat. And I think that should be all right. So, there you go. Okay, beautiful. And I always book a band. Yep. Have you got Animal, the Muppet?

No. The Muppet drummer? Didn't write back to my emails. I don't know if you can type. I don't think he has thumbs, dude. I don't know how he's fucking holding drumsticks. You're never going to believe it. Why?

Obviously. You know, we spoke about some rats on this episode. Yeah. I booked this band a long, long time in advance. What have you done? But the instrumental band Rat-A-Tat are here today. Are they going to play their big hits such as? Such as loud. Actually, I do know this band.

Loud Pipes. Loud Pipes. Yes. Remember that song? They played at Meredith the one year I went. Oh, fun. They were very cool because they're sort of electronic or instrumental, but then also had like a light show going and it was like very late at night.

So, some people are absolutely off their dial. Yeah. A few beers is a bit of fun. A few beers and a few other things. I would never. No, not you. Yeah, my God, I'm a freaking nerd. Talking about other people.

Yeah, other people have had all the things. But, yeah, they were really great. But I can't believe that I booked them the night that we talked about rats. Yeah, that's crazy. What a change. It keeps happening. And so, yeah, we like to – normally Matt is sort of the one to raise the velvet rope, tick you off the list, welcome you in.

We all stand around cheering and welcoming you. I guess I can do that this time, Dave, and then you can sort of hype them up a little bit. Oh, yes. How many have we got? Three. Three. Okay. I think you can do that.

I absolutely think so. Do you feel confident? Yes. Okay, great. Well, here we go. And also, Matt's not here to bring you down with his negativity. Yeah, that's right. It's just me.

Pure positive vibes. I am the human equivalent of a little pat on the bum. Yes. You also, Matt's not here to bring you down with his negativity. Yeah, that's right. It's just me. Pure positive vibes. I am the human equivalent of a little pat on the bum. Yes. You know, so I've got you here. Everybody finds that comforting. Yeah, yeah. Find me somebody who doesn't find a little pat on the bum comforting. Exactly.

There's nothing weird about it. There's nothing weird. Maybe a stranger giving you a pat, sure. But a loved one, that's nice. That's why babies like it. It's comforting. Chill out. All right.

Back off. I'm being very defensive Back off About liking a pat on the bum From certain people Anyway So Welcoming into the Triptych Club This week

From Silver Springs, Maryland It's John Brophy I don't have a trophy case here But I do have a John Brophy case Yes We'll put you in glass Charles Put you on display

Look pretty Shine for us From London Yes, we'll put you in glass, Charles. Put you on display. Look pretty. Shine for us. From London, in London, it's Charlotte. Charlotte from, not London, but from Funden. Oh, she's fun. She's Charlotte. She's fun.

I'm getting a party started in here. What in it? All right. What's up, I'm Charlotte. Let's party. Yeah, we'll have a bit of fish and chips, mushy peas. We love you, Charlotte. Yeah, we love you so much. We love you.

And finally, from Southborough in Massachusetts, it's Paloma Velasquez. I was in a coma and the first person I saw when I awoke was Paloma Velasquez. Your very comforting presence. Exactly. You made Dave feel safe again as he came out of the coma. You were whispering sweet nothings in my ear and said, oh, my gosh, I'm awake. Hello.

That's beautiful. Thank you. And now you're here, would you like to be inducted into the Triptych Club? And Paloma said, I mean, if you've got time, because that's just the cool person Paloma is. So thank you and welcome, Paloma, Charlotte and John. Welcome to the Triptych Club. Now that you're in it, you can never leave.

But why would you want to? We haven't actually had anyone request to leave, but there is a rule that you can't. You can't. But no one's requested it even. Yeah, I don't know what we would do if we did get a request. Yeah. How do you think?

Maybe you'd have to take it to a panel. Yeah. And we could sort of decide. You'd have to have a good reason to want to leave. It's a no from me. Yeah, obviously it's a no from me as well, but maybe Matt could be swept. No, but we've already said no.

Yeah, two to one. This is a democracy. I don't know why you'd want, like, a demotion in life. Exactly. Go back to the real world with all those suckers. Yuck. But, yeah, I guess that brings us to the end of the episode. Just one thing I would like to say to people.

A couple of things, actually. Remember to wash your butt. Okay, good step. Good thing to do at all times. It is. Just wash your butt. How often? Once a year?

I don't You can probably overdo it Really? Okay Too clean Yeah It gets read raw I'm scrubbing it

And if you would like to suggest a topic Anybody can You don't have to be a Patreon It doesn't cost you any money or anything to suggest a topic So if there's something that you think would make for a good do go on report i love when people do that there's a link in our show notes it's also on our website which is do go on pod.com which is also where you can find information about live shows our other podcasts all sorts of fun stuff so head over there you can find us on social media at do go on pod as well and do go on podcast on tiktok

where we are going viral we are huge on there oh my gosh we're massive we might be one of the top three creators yeah i think i think we're getting to the top three yeah it's pretty big for us anyway um dave boot this baby home we'll be back next week with another fantastic episode i'm sure of it but until, I'll say thank you so much for listening. And until then, goodbye. Laters. That was a pretty good man. Yeah, that was your best yet. Laters.

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