Do Go On - 467 - The Pinkerton Detective Agency

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

To kick of BLOCK2024, we learn about the history of the Pinkerton Detective Agency, one of the first of its kind, with a varied and fascinating history. This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 13:54 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSupport the show on Apple podcasts and get bonus episodes in the app: http://apple.co/dogoon Live show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Submit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/  Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodEmail us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/Do Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.  REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://pinkerton.com/our-story/historyhttps://www.britannica.com/topic/Pinkerton-National-Detective-Agencyhttps://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-the-pinkertonshttps://pinkerton.com/our-insights/blog/pinkerton-lincoln-and-mcclernand-at-the-secret-service-headquarters https://www.intelligence.gov/evolution-of-espionage/civil-war/union-espionage/allan-pinkerton https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/james-agency/https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/outlaw-hunters-163405565/  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serengy Amarna 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there.

Canada, we are visiting you in September this year. If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. And welcome to another episode of Dugawan. My name is Dev Warnakey.

And as always, I'm here with Matt Stewart. So good to be back. Hey, quick question for you, Dave. How good is it to be alive? This week, I'm going to say confidently, it's the best to be alive because it is the best time in the Dugawan calendar. And what a way to celebrate by welcoming back our old co-host. We've missed her for so many weeks.

Jess Perkins is back. The Bob is back. The old co-host. I've come out of retirement. That's right. There was an emergency, we broke glass. Yeah. And we've called it just broken.

In case of emergency, break glass. It's funny that you think of her as the old host. Yeah. I'm the newest. I'm the newest. I'm the newest of host. I'm the newbie. I still think of her as the apprentice.

And after a few weeks away, renegotiating your contract, we're happy to say, we've worked out something that's suitable for everyone and welcome back to the airwaves. So we're us at six weeks. Yes. But for the listeners, they've had bits and pieces of you with a few live recordings we sprinkled in. Yeah. And a couple we were recorded before. We didn't want anyone to forget you.

Thank you. Also, we didn't want anyone to turn us off because you're not here. Thank, that's smart as well. There's like, you're being kind for me, but also it's business decisions. Some of the people we had fill your shoes are, those are some of the biggest names of comedy and podcasts. I got to say, I was listening back to the episode you had Lizzie Who on. She was crushing it. She's so good.

And I was like, okay, Lizzie, I'm enjoying this, but I'm going to need you to be a little bit less funny and charming. Yeah. Because I'm still. needs a job, okay? I just wanted to take a holiday. I didn't want to be replaced. And isn't, that's why you, uh, you, you, you, uh, cut her down at the knees, literally, isn't it? Yes. Yes. That's correct. Yeah. I could remember the Oscar who did it. So I had to go with more of a graphic. Tonya Harding. Tonya. That's why you're Tonya Harding to her. Yes, I did. So anyway, Lizzie, we hope you're recovering well.

Listening from my hospital, bed. Uh, Jess, welcome back. You've been overseas in the United States of America for six weeks. They let you in. Land of the free, They did let us in, but reluctantly, I'll be honest. Really? Because when we arrived and we went through customs, they were like, how long are you going to be in the United States? And I said, six weeks. And he said, yeah, it was six weeks.

And he said, are you working while you're here? And I said, no. And he goes, how? Oh. He said, absolutely not. I've let the boys know. There's no work that I will be doing. I was very clear about that, wasn't I?

He didn't a laptop. Yeah, I said, I'm not bringing a laptop, boys, you're on your own. That's, that's, that's, but it's just, they don't have a holiday in culture. over there. Well, yeah. Or for that period of time annually. Yes, that's right. And he was sort of like, how and I went, um, annual leave and savings? And he was like, okay. But he was quite sussed. Did he have to Google those things? He was like, hang on a second, annual leave. Dude, what if you said vacay? Yeah, yeah, maybe that was the problem. I'm here for spring break. Oh, why don't you say it's my white girl summer? No, hot girl summer. What's the phrase?

Well, it could be both. Okay. I am white and hot. Yeah. Well, now, now that I've had the hot Girl Summer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In conjunction with my white girl summer. But yes, I've been away for six weeks. I've been exploring the US. I went to like nine different stops. I saw a lot of the US.

And let me tell you, that plays rules. Yeah. But actually, every second day, I would alternate. One day I would say, this place fucking rules. And the next day I would say, I hate this place. Right. And that's just, you know, that's just traveling. Traveling in middle age.

Am I middle age yet? So you're in and Yang of Jess. No, you're not quite middle age. Okay. You let me know. Can you let me know? I'll stop asking. Let me know.

Well, to me, it's not a number thing. It's a vibe. It's a vibe check. Dave is middle age. I don't know he's two years younger than you. Two days younger than me. Same thing. But Dave is middle age.

He's wearing a knit. Is it the glasses? It's the glasses. It's the silver fox. Quiff. It's the vibe. You sound like I could, quiff. No, what is it?

It is quiff. Quiff is very different. You sound like you're the type of person I would come to for like financial advice. Fantastic. You know, I don't think you'd come to me for that. No. Oh, God. You just spent six weeks in the US, you're an idiot.

The financial advice, the way I'd describe Dave's financial advice would be sound. Yes, that's right. Mine would be irresponsible. That's sound advice. And Jess, you brought presents. Yes, I did bring you, I was in Austin, Texas, ever heard of it. And I, this is honestly, as I was leaving Austin, there was a souvenir shop at the airport that had. Did we got an airport gift?

We got an airport gift. So know that these were very expensive for what they are, but I bought both Matt and Dave T-shirts that say keep Austin weird. Which is weird because they got it wrong. It's stay weird, Austin. Yeah. Isn't that what the saying is? I let them know.

I let them know. Might it's better, but Dave's is also very good. Dave's is very Dave. I actually love this shirt so much. I would wear that as well. I love the shirt. And Dave is literally not wearing it. Now he's holding it up.

So Dave, if you are just being polite, I'll have it. I genuinely really like it. Oh, thank you, Jess. Pass it over. Happy with my present. You guys can share. You can alternate because Matt's is tie-dye, which isn't really Dave's fashion vibe.

Is it mine? I've never wanted a tie-dow. Well, not since I was a kid. Why can I be a big party animal? Do you want to be Thai? Maybe. Okay. I think it's 100% your vibe.

I've always wanted one of those Lithuania. There's Lithuania basketball teachers that we talked about for ages. Grateful dead. Yeah, I really want one of those. Okay, good to know. It's good to learn these things. After all these time, I'm still learning things.

It's nice. Maybe we'll talk a bit more about your trip in the and everyone's favorite section of the show because I know a lot of people skip over this first part. Of course. So boring. But how exciting is it to have you back, particularly for this episode, because this is the start of Block, our annual celebration of listeners and topics. Oh man, that's sounds like, awful. But you can explain it, Jess. Yeah, we celebrate topics. Let's hear it for the topic. So for how many years have we been doing Block for now? I believe this is the seven. Seven, I think you found. Wow.

The first one was different. The first one I got people to vote for their favorite styles of reports. And then we did mini votes. Like we did a serial killer vote. That's how I found my, I got serial killers. And I'd put up a vote of eight really awful serial killers. And they picked probably the least off one. No, probably very awful, but it was so long ago that it felt almost, you know, mythical.

That was the blood countess. I don't know if you remember that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We also did Batman that year. That was the most requested topic. I will say our listeners, they do vote well. Like, I trust their instincts a lot of the time too.

But basically what this is is we put up a big voting poll for everybody to vote on that is our most requested topics. And then you vote on that. So it's like the most requested and then voted on topics. So it's thousands of votes. So, yeah, we got the patrons also suggest and then they upvote. So all the ones in the hat that are most suggested get joined by. all these Patreon extra suggestions.

And this year is by far the longest short list we've ever done. I think it was over 400 topics in there. It took Matt a solid eight hours to put it together. You shouldn't be allowed to call that a short list. Yeah, that's insane. That's a medium list. And then we've, yeah, we've whittled that down, or you have, our great listeners, with thousands of votes.

I think it was our most ever voted for Block as well. Crazy. And now we're going to vote, we're going to count down the top nine over Blocktober. And in the last few years, we started annexing November into a block as well, so which is, I think Dave dubbed Blovember. Is that right, right? Yes, Blovember. You think about it. These are our Blockbuster topic.

So this is your first Block. Welcome aboard, my friend. Fantastic time to be joining the podcast. And can we quickly say something? Yes. And that is, for the first time ever, you can see a Block live. Oh, yes. This weekend.

Yes. We are celebrating Blockbuster. This is the first episode of Block. I believe the ninth most voted for topic. But we're doing a couple of this weekend on Saturday and Sunday, October 5 and 6, 2024. And you can watch in studio or on stream and to celebrate Blockbuster October. Each day, there's another podcast as well on the same ticket price.

You get a book sheet on the Saturday. Who knew it on the Sunday? And my goodness. And the guests we've got for both of those are blocktastic. Yeah. It's red heart. Three favorite guests of the show. Yeah.

So the three of us will be on all four episodes, but also Dave's got Kirstie Webeck, the horniest podcaster in the biz. Yeah, she's the horniest guest many years in a row now. I'm also just excited to catch up with Kirsty. Yeah. Always so fun. She's always on the road. Yeah.

Or on the sea, because she does a lot of cruise ships. A lot of cruises. And then joining us on who knew it on the Sunday is Zach and Big Wet Mish Whitrop. And yeah, Zach, we're still trying to hone in on his nickname. We've got a few. I like Zachiavelli. Oh, I like that. That's incredible.

That's incredible. Little dry. Little dry is very good. Yep. Dirty Zach. I don't want dirty Zach. One, I came up with one. Dr. Zach MD and in brackets MD is master of, what did I write?

That's pretty catchy. Very memorable. Master of what did I write? Deceit. Master of deceit. Oh, that's good. Yeah, yeah. But shady as well.

He wears sunglasses while he plays. Yeah. Poker style. But anyway, that's going to be so much fun. I think all the live tickets are sold. out, but streaming is available. You can do that from anywhere in the world. Yes, live or on catch-ups, so you don't have to get up in the middle of the night if you

are not on Melbourne time. And you don't have to like, get up, go to a venue, be surrounded by people. God, I'm really showing a bit too much of myself here. You can sit on the couch in your comfy clothes and eat whatever kind of snack you want and just watch some fun comedy. Are you kidding me? If you were in, I are in Melbourne, like, oh, I'm shouted out, I missed out on tickets. There are probably tickets still available to some of the other shows.

Yeah, there's a whole bunch of shows. that are part of this entire festival, which is going to be so great here at Stupid Old Studios, who we absolutely adore. Bodrigi, our favourite brewery here in Melbourne, is doing a pop-up bar as well. So with one of the brewers, James, who's a legend of the game, is going to be serving you himself. James is great. He doesn't normally waste his time doing that. He's a brewer.

Yeah. He's busy. Brewing. That's how lucky we are to have James himself pouring the beers. Well, he won't be doing that. He'll be handing you the cans. but still. I mean, if you hold a glass out,

I'm sure you'd probably pour it for you. On your quest. Yeah. Yeah. On request. Yeah. Anyway, so that's live this weekend. My goodness, what a time to be alive.

So, without further ado, should we kick into Blockbustertobertober 2024? Let's do it. I'm so pumped. Okay. So, we always start with a question as well. That's right. That's another part. If this is the first episode you've ever listened to,

bloody welcome. Well, honestly, welcome. And we would say the rest of the year, the other 10 months. Still good. We don't know what the topics are and they are still very good. Yeah. But we don't know what the topics are. We have to know for this one because we've got to sort out the whole thing.

But we're still going to do a question. But let's be real. Obviously, I'm doing the topic this week. So I do know the topic. But even for the rest of block, I'm not going to remember what you guys are doing. Even if you tell me before we start recording. I'm not 100% sure which one. I can't remember what you got allocated this week.

Yeah, right. I know the three that you didn't get because I'm doing them. But the other six, I can't remember. Who knows? So let's see if this question triggers your memory. Which organization in its prime was the largest private law enforcement organization in the world? I was going to say NASA.

But as the question continued, I try to stop, but the words are already coming out. War enforcement, NASA! FBI. No, I do know this. A little bit of a precursor of the FBI, some would say. Pinkerton. Yes, correct. I was going to say the EBI.

Oh. A bit of fun there. That is good stuff. Oh, I see. Do you see what he did? And what would the E stand for there? Excellent. The excellent Bureau of Investigation. I know, that's pretty good.

And then they went, actually, we're not excellent. But we are federal. So let's lower expectations a little. No, the answer is Pinkerton. Pinkerton. So the Pinkerton Detective Agency. One of those things that I've heard so many times is reference in other reports. Yeah. Yes.

Never fully looked into what it is. Same. I think it was referenced quite a bit in the episode of, about maybe was it a block episode last year, I think even, where Lincoln's body was attempted to be stolen. Possibly, yeah. Good one. Good one. Yep. And so this, obviously, because it's a block topic, it has been suggested by a lot of people, including Tarek from Charlotte, North Carolina, Lima from Durham, North Carolina. Okay, just quickly, they do blue fire trucks in some of those cities in North Carolina. Okay. And Michael Jordan played basketball. They were worried short.

And as a mini-golf was invented there, a place called Thistle do. And I think also that the Venus Flytrap is native native to there. Just a couple of things. If this is your first episode, we love North Carolina. North Carolina facts. Probably our third favourite state. Probably. Yeah, after Ohio, God's country.

And then Vermont. With free with, uh, creamies. Gary Indiana, but that's not the whole state. Some of Indiana can get fucked. But Gary, love Gary. Indianapolis, you know what you do. All right. We also have Tim Randall from Brisbane, Toby Gull from Greensboro in Victoria.

Dustin Louis. from Japan, Kyle Pettish from Chicago, Lynn from Washington, Captain Bonclay from Ohio, Matt Arnett from Ringwood, Sean Swonston from Scotland, and Ad from Bristol. So a lot of people have suggested this. So what I did was, because there's, the Pinkerton Detective Agency has a very long and varied history and there's sort of like a bunch of different stories, some quite long, some pretty short and anecdotal that you can cover about them. So I thought, okay, what I'm going to do is I looked at all the people that had suggested them and picked out all of the things that they specifically suggested as they were pitching it

because there was a lot of overlap of like the main, sort of the big hits. So I've got like a bit of background on how it came to be and then I sort of hit some of the big topics of it. But there's so much that if you're listening to this and you're a big pinkerton head and you're like, oh, you didn't mention this one small story. It's like, I can't fit everything in because there's a lot to these. And also, if you suggested it in the hat, Jess would have covered it because she's done, everyone who suggested it. So maybe, when you're pointing one finger, remember there's three pointing back at you.

I knew you bring that up again. And once I'm pointing at God. You bring that up. You go through a real phase with the pointing thing. I have used that a few times later. Yeah, you point a finger. Well, look at the pinkerton, the pinky finger pointing back at you. Is it?

Pinkerton, the Weezer album, is that related? Maybe. And is there an album called Pinkerton by Weezer? Two questions. That's a two-parta. Yeah, that's a thing. I'm going to throw to Dave to Google that one. Yeah, Pinkett's a Weiser album.

My nails are too long. I can't type at the moment. And I imagine you'll cover this, but who is Pinkerton? I, that's actually so good because that's the first subheading I have. Fantastic. So that's very convenient. I'm glad. That makes me feel validated that I've structured this podcast in a logical way.

You have. So that's a relief. Have you found, you have? found the Weezer album? It is the second album, which I believe at the time was panned, now reassessed in and critical acclaim. That's kind of what I'm hoping for in life. Like at first people were like, eh, and then later they go, you know what?

She was all right. She wasn't that bad. She wasn't that bad. If you could get past the stench, she was okay. What about this? It received mixed reviews. He's not saying anything about my stench. Well, obviously Rolling Stone Reader just voted that the third worst album of 1996.

Really? The third worst smelling person on planet Earth, 1996. In 96, 100%. Third worst album. It's brutal. That's the kind of, that's such a nonsense thing. Like, you've listened to them all, have you? Exactly.

Well, you've listened to a high school band from this tiny little town or something? Yeah, sure. And now several publications have named it of one of the best albums of the entire 1990s. That is my goal in life to have that kind of. Interesting. What were the songs that did it have that one where he goes? Bukaroo! Did it have that one, Dave? El Scorcho.

El Scorcho was the first single. Well done. Does it say? I was like, there's no way he's going to know this name of the song and you got it. Okay. So, Matt's question, Dave, was who is Pinkerton? Yes. A fantastic question.

Great. Pinkerton is Alan Pinkerton. Born in Glasgow in 1819. He left school at the age of 10 after his father William passed away. He learnt to be a Cooper, so a craftsman who produces wooden casks, barrels, fats, buckets, tubs, all sorts of stuff. That's why Cooper's brewery, their logos, a barrel. That makes sense.

Makes you think. Wow. I didn't know that like, to make that sort of stuff, it's that you heat the timber and make it all pliable. Oh, so you can bend it. Totally makes sense. I tried, but yeah, started a lot of fires. Yeah, heating timber is very precise.

And that's why they call you Elscorcho. So he's doing that from a young age, but he also continued. to educate himself. He read extensively, so he sort of continued his own schooling. By 1842, shortly after he married a singer named Gene Carfrey, the couple, the couple, the couple, the couple, emigrated to the United States. The following year, he went alone to the new township of Dundee, Illinois, about 50 miles northwest of Chicago. I reckon surely there was a part of him was like, there's a Dundee in Scotland. A bit of homesick. Totally. I was thinking that. My, my Scottish ancestors. I don't know if you know this Stuart is a Scottish name.

What? And it's spelled the correct Scottish way with the EW, not the weird French way with the U. But I, I like saying that because it definitely annoys the U the U-S stewards out there. But who cares about them? Disgusting. They lived in Perth year in Scotland and they immigrated to Perth in Western Australia before heading over to Victoria. And there must have been a similar thing there, right? Something in our brains, it's like, that's familiar. I know that. can't be a coincidence.

Can't be. I mean, they must have named it. I looked around and said, this is a lot like Perthshire. Yeah. Do you reckon Perth, Western Australia? Very similar to sort of mid to upper Scotland there. Lovely beaches.

Warm weather. Just coming up to the highlands, you know, Europe. Quokkers. Just like home. Just like Highland Cus. Yeah. Much smaller. But smiley.

I think it was a fairly new township as well. So he went there. He built a cabin, set up a coquess. Cooper Ridge and sent for his wife in Chicago when their new home was set up. So I think it was sort of like, they're going to need a Cooper. I'm going to go set up a business in this upcoming town. Perfect. Very smart. If you have a trade like that, you can work anywhere. Exactly. As early as 1844, Pinkerton worked for the Chicago abolitionist leaders and his Dundee home was a stop on the Underground Railroad. He was an abolitionist. I can never say that word properly. I think I'm doing it. We would have

talked about the Underground Railroad in a couple of episodes, definitely in Harriet Tubman. But to refresh anyone's memory, it was a network of secret roots and safe houses established in the US and it was used by enslaved African Americans primarily to escape into free states and from there to Canada. So it was this kind of like secret path you could go on and safe houses that would look after you and hide you basically. So he was a stop on that path. So one day, while walking through the woods around Dundee, looking for timber that would be suitable for barrels, Pinkerton came across a group of counterfeiters. I don't really know how you know just from looking at a group of people

that they're counterfeiters unless they're chopping up the money in front of you. Well, you know that they're like their Louis Vuitton's logos and aren't quite right. They're selling all these bags and you're like, I don't think that for 30 bucks. I don't think that's a genuine Louis Vuitton. So out of the back of a truck, man. No, no, top quality. This is top quality. All legit.

That was very exciting. I remember my sister-in-law when I was like early teens. she went to Bali and came back with like a little Louis Vuitton purse for me. The zip so stiff and barely working, but I was like, oh, ho. Oh, la la. La la. La. So apparently, he did a little bit of surveillance on them.

He watched them for a little bit. Gave that intel to the local sheriff who quickly made several arrests. Nadia, where didn't really? So Cooperidge also involves narcary. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely narc. Yeah. My goodness.

According to PBS, the resulting selection. led to his appointment as a deputy sheriff and then special agent for the US post office, where his success in catching criminals continued. Stop. I'm an officer of the law. Oh, really? For the post office. I'm going to keep going.

I'm going to keep running, actually. I'm good, man. Thanks, dude. I don't have any letters to send. See you. That's not a gun. That's a stamp machine. Yeah, I don't, here's the thing.

This is where it's pretty funny because I couldn't, there wasn't a lot of detail into it. It was just like, yeah. So he told the cops about the counterfeiters, and then they were like, you should be a sheriff. And it's like, oh, I don't think, I don't know if, but okay. Yeah, you've got a knack for this. It's like when a five-year-old calls an ambulance to their mom and then they're like, give him a little plastic sheriff's special. Yeah, well-done lad. Yeah.

That's what he got, but he's an adult. A good reminder to parents to teach your kids to call 911. Yeah. Some just naturally have the knack for knocking. Yeah. In 1849, he was appointed as the first police detective in Chicago. go. Because he stumbled upon some guys one time.

But it turns, like, it seems like he was, he was pretty good at peace and stuff together. But there are no police detectives before this. They invented it for him. I mean, it was a different time. It feels like he saw a crime and was like, who do I call? There's no one to call. Well, I guess I'll be the cop now. Do you want to be the first one as well?

Like, everyone I was like, what does that even mean? You're under a respect. Okay, mate. I'm actually a detective. It's different. All right. What is that? What? I detect things.

Oh. Oh, you're idiots. Gosh, anyway, you come with me. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. No, but I'm a detective. Okay, mate. I don't know what that means.

You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to fuck off. Yeah. Counterfeiters were big then, though. That was a big part of the Lincoln Body episode. That was all to do with counterfeiters. It was like the big crime back on. Oh, yeah.

The plate. Yeah. Yeah. Probably a bit easier to counterfeit money. God, we have it tough now. I know. Crime's harder now with all the CCTV and the paper trails and the DNA. Yeah.

And Louis Vuitton. logo is so complex now. Doesn't they have like a hieroglyphics on it? Not horoglyphics? What am I saying? What do you call that thing that looks like it's standing up? Holographics. Holographics.

Looks like it's standing up. Holographic Pyramid. That's what he meant. Dave, thanks. It is so good to have you here translating for me. I'm recently on the book cheat episode. He was so far off the mark, but I explained, I think this is what you mean because of this, this and this.

And you went, yeah, that's right. And AJ, I guess, said, that was actually really beautiful. He worked together for so long, you know what he means. Yeah. But sometimes we don't. And that's when I'm, that's when you're floundering and I'm like, I just have to let him drown. I don't know. I can't, he's too far out.

I can't throw the ring to him to get him back in the boat. Please. He's paddling. I'm like, I can't, I'm not a good swimmer mate. Anyway. Please, but the thing that stands up. What a, a dog? A very talented dog.

I don't know. You know, when they can really maintain it, you're like, bloody hell, that's impressive. Oh, that doc's been standing for me. Is that talk okay? In 1850, Pinkerton partnered with Chicago attorney Edward Rucker, incredible name. Oh, my God, any relation? To Alan Ruck.

Maybe that's where Alan Ruck gets his name from. Alan Pinkerton, Edward Rucker. Put them together, what are you get? Alan Ruck. That's good stuff. They formed the Northwestern Police Agency, which later became Pinkerton and Co. and finally, Pinkerton National Detective Agency. Pinkerton used his skills in espionage.

I don't know where these espionage skills have come from. He's a Cooper. Born with them. To attract clients and begin growing the agency. The Pinkerton Agency began to hire women and minorities shortly after its founding because they were useful as spies, which is a practice that was very uncommon at the time. Yeah, no one would suspect them.

Yeah. Like, yeah, well, a woman spy? Come on. That, like, that is totally, there was another. the top of the ditch, I don't know how, I don't want to give it any way. So it was in the block vote as well. I was like, there was a spy and she got away with so much just because people are like, what?

Yeah. She's got kids. Yeah. Couldn't be a spy. So, like, people are telling her information and stuff. And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah. They're like, well, we know we can trust you. You're certainly not a spy.

You don't know anything except for those kids. But we had that with like, was it Josephine Baker, the showgirl spy? Yes. She was like a famous actress. singer showgirl and so people were like we'll tell her everything. She could get into hard to reach places because of her celebrity status and then she was just feeding information out. It's wild. Yeah, it's like a

really good toothbrush getting into hard to reach places. That's right. Unless you've got a flip top head. Remember those ads? Yes. No. I thought you're going to explain a bit more about that's right. It was a cartoon a Colgate guy. He's like, oh, for those, unless you got a flip top head and then there's a guy whose head just flips off so I can brush it. head. I thought you meant the toothbrush was a flip top. And I was like, but that sounds like it would

be really good. No, it's unless you do, then you'll need Colgate toothbrushes or whatever the brand was. Because nobody has a flip-to-head dead. And I'm there with flip-top head going, oh, hi. What do I use? So, one of these women was Kate Warn. Kate Warn came up a lot in people's suggestions of this. Wow. Very little is known about her early life other than she was from Erin New York and that she was a widow by the age of 23, from Wikipedia.org, which I think is like an online database for detective agencies. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

I don't understand how that would connect, but sure. Oh, like wiki is probably something like a... This is lingo. Yeah. In 1856 at the age of 23, Warren walked into the Pinkerton Detective Agency in response to an advertisement in local newspaper and requested a job as a detective.

The W stands for Who Done it? Correct. Wow. The I is for I done it. The K is for New it. No. The I is for, I done it. Et cetera, et cetera.

Pinkerton was initially hesitant to hire her. However, Warn convinced him that her undercover skills would be helpful. Pinkerton Company Records reported Pinkerton as declaring, It's not the custom to employ women detectives. And noted that Warn argued her point of view, adding that women have an eye for detail and are excellent observers. All right, but the ad didn't say, we want women. And when she came in, they said,

We don't want a woman? said we need detectives. Okay. And she was like, me. And they went, no, you could edge. But she swayed, her argument swayed Pinkerton. She must have done stuff like, I can tell that you got up on the left hand side of the bed today with the way, the way you're walking.

I did get up on the left side of the day. I always do. The right side's up against a wall. How does she know this? I have no other way. She's good. She's really good. She proved to be very useful, very capable.

She helped Pinkerton with an embezzlement case in 1858. Company called Adams Express Company, it was an investment firm, suspected an employee of embezzlement, so Kate went undercover and befriended his wife. The two women became friends. Kate was able to get information about the embezzlement and the location of the stolen money. Man, that is work I just could not do. You could not befriend a woman. Yeah, good luck, mate.

I've never seen him do it. He's tried and it's embarrassing. Hey, what are you doing later? Piss off. I don't know you. He just keeps getting pepper sprayed. Yeah, and you know what? It's because I hang around with Jess too much and I have the stench.

Which you'd think it'd help having a woman's stench on me. Nah. But no, it doesn't. A woman's smell, maybe. Yeah, but a stench. A stench is a stench bag. Oh, my gosh, you can't get rid of the stench. But do it, like, befriending someone?

Yes. Oh, and knowing there's a... You're just going to screw her whole life over the whole time and you get closer and closer. Are you screwing her whole life over if they've embezzled? Like, if they're... done a crime. Husband's probably going to go to jail. Yeah.

Well, that's going to, I mean, we'll upend her life and she's supposed to be, she thinks you're her good friend. I just, I'd feel bad about that. Oh, sure. Possibly, you know, you're probably doing the right thing, I guess, but I just couldn't. Yeah. I couldn't do the right thing. No.

In any circumstance. Never. Plus, I'd be the embezzler. Yeah, you'd find out where the money is and be like, can I have some? Yeah, you'd be like, oh my God, this scheme's actually awesome. Yeah, this is great. Isn't really profitable. There's so much more profitable than the detective agency that's hired me to talk to you.

I mean. Here's the thing. We're on to you now, because you've just told me everything. If you give it to me, I'll hide it. Yeah. Yes. Even further. And I'll tell them, nothing to see here.

No, it's not them. Yeah, it's not there. And I'll be wearing a gold-plated tie. Yeah, but they won't suspect the thing. Really rigid thighs. But she works with men. They're not going to notice what she's wearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This seemed insane to me, given the time, because this is 1858 or something, of the $50,000 stolen. Whoa. 39,515 was recovered. So they got most of it back. But doesn't that seem like an insane amount of money back then when like a house would have been threppence or something? Yeah, that's a lot. That's so much.

How many pence? Throp. Ah, shit, I'm a thrup short. You guys got a thrup I can borrow? Trying to buy a house. I'm trying to buy a bloody house again. Yeah. My coin pocket is, it's almost empty.

So I kind of have to... Gonna have to return to one of my other house. Yeah, I'm going to have to go look in the couch. Trying really need to buy this house. Well, yeah, 50,000. That seemed too much. They probably would have got away with it to if they weren't so greedy. Yeah.

Just take 5,000. Yeah, that sets you up for life back then. Surely I have no concept of how much money was back then, but it feels like that's a lot. That's often the thing we've found that undoes criminals is greed. Yeah. Never know when to stop. That's the cliche in the movie's one last job. Yeah.

Come on. Do one less job. The last one's the one you get done for. So the husband was sentenced to 10 years in prison. See, her whole life upended. And Jess is fine with it. I'm okay with it. Wow.

Because you did the right thing on paper. I'm very moral. That's right. Obviously, if they're doing the right thing, you're supporting a large conglomerate company to maintain. And the Pinkertons make really good decisions forever. Oh, great. Let's just put that.

So this is going to be one of those episodes where there's no sort of moral gray areas. I mean, he sounds like a great, like helping the Underground Railroad. Yeah, he does. He does sound good. He does sound good. Great. So far, so good. So far, so good.

Okay. Another, like, there isn't heaps known on Kate. I'll talk about that a little bit later as well. But this was just literally like a couple of sentences I saw. So I don't have details on these, but I really wanted to include them because I think they're kind of funny. So another time, Kate went undercover as a fortune teller and convinced a suspect to reveal information. That's good stuff. That's pretty good.

Like, I think I read that, like, Pinkerton hired her, like, a space to like set up a little shop as a fortune teller. That is incredible. It's really good. And that kind of thing, you would have thought that would have been the end of fortune telling. Why would anyone go back once that hits the news? Oh, you're going to, you're going on a fortune tell.

Oh, yeah, tell us a bit about yourself. Yeah. What are you up to? What do you want to know about? Where did you hide the money you stole? I don't think I'm never going to go a fortune tell again. I don't think I can trust them. Any more.

Any more. Yeah. I'm canceling tonight's appointment. a great run. Yeah. You're really looking forward to it. Yeah, I was going to tell them, they said, I've been going on to them a lot. Yeah.

And I've told them everything apart from where the money is, which I was going to tell them tonight. But I don't think I will, man. You're not going to? No. But you've told them your pin and your internet banking details, well? Yeah. Okay. And my mother's made a name.

Yeah, good. Which I'm sure I've said on this podcast as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've definitely, I think, I think, doing a long-term podcast is basically slowly doxing yourself. Absolutely, yes. And also like supplying an AI with hundreds and hundreds of hours

of whatever you talking. Yeah, that's scary. Yeah, we've made some huge mistakes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we're too deep in it now. Yeah, my God. What are we going to stop now? What? How dumb would that be?

Yeah. I don't have any other skills. Oh my God, we're trapped. This is the only job I can do. AI's got it already. We may as well keep, we'll dig our way out. Give them more. And if the AI wants to start making the episodes for us,

We can have a holiday. We could all have a holiday. Yeah. We all go travelling together. Wow. That would be fun. Do you think AI could come up with this? This solid goal?

Something this good? Yeah, I don't know. Imagine. Are you being like, the thing that stands up? Yeah, I don't think it could be, AI could be that stupid. Imagine if it gets to a point, though, where it could make a pretty convincing podcast for it, that I'd feel a bit shit about. Yeah. I'd be like, oh.

I don't know. We are useless. Yeah. So that's just another one of Kate's fun little undercover adventures. That's awesome. I love Kate for that. For that. I love Kate.

One of her most famous undercover roles was one that involved a certain bearded, large hat wearing president. Oh, my God. Who? Are we talking about taft? Oh, was it taft? Are we talking about taft? It's not taft. Oh, Taft in the bath?

I'm so sorry to disappoint. It's not taft. Was it Ulysses S. Grant? It wasn't Ulysses S. Grant. Is it, was it not taft because he didn't have a hat or a beard? Maybe. Does he have the mustache? He had a mustache, though.

Him and Lincoln together make one full beard. They make one Ulysses S. Grant. Wait, him and who? Lincoln. Oh, he's some other guy. Don't worry about it. Wait, is that relevant to this somehow? Wow, maybe.

He stands up. Lincoln! He stands up. He stands up on his high and legs like his whole career. Famously, isn't he? Yeah. Big tall corpse. Big tall corpse.

As we had found out last year. He died? Oh, I'm so sorry. You had to hear it like this. Remember? Well, in 1861, Alan Pinkerton was hired by Samuel H. Felton, president of the Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore Railroad. That's catchy.

To investigate secessionist activity and threats of damage to the railroad in Maryland. Two quite different things. Or I guess unless the secessionists are trying to stop the railway. ways are like, oh, we're separate now, I can't even get a train here. So we've talked about this before, I'm sure, but Western Australia voted successfully to secede in the, in the 1900s, I think. Really? And, uh, you say we've talked about it.

It doesn't mean I remember it. Yeah, and that went to, you know, like, they needed the queen to, like, rubber stamp it because, and, uh, she just never got back to him. The queen or the king or whoever was. Sorry, W.A. That's pretty funny. Just got bored and I went, oh, I'll get back to the. this later. Yeah.

We've all done that. Yeah. We've all like accidentally, we've read an email, thought, I'll get, I'll have a mile, I'll have a mile about that. Yeah. And I'll get back to them and then you just forget. And then so it goes so long and you're like, it's embarrassing if I get back to them now. It's better that I just ghosted them.

Yeah. I'll just run into them at a party now and hope neither of us mention it. Yeah, yeah. And if they mention it, I'll be like, that's just a real social faux par. Because like, I think it really built up, obviously to the point that it was the popular decision to break off from Australia. And then in time, they sort of came around to being part of Australia again. Otherwise, they probably would have pushed it further.

You know what, now? I can't imagine us without them. I love those brutes over there, those big, beautiful lugs. I love every little bit of this great southern land. God bless our country. This sunburnt land of ours. I imagine it's the same in America that where these people are trying to succeed, but 150 years later, they're probably like, oh, thank God.

Everyone in America is trying to succeed, Dave. But we're talking about seceding. I find this word so hard to say. I'm going to say it wrong. Anyway, so Pinkerton, this will all make sense in a bit. Pinkerton went to work, placing agents at various points in Maryland to investigate this potential activity. But as the investigation continued,

a more troubling piece of information came to light. I found this very helpful piece of information, and then I was like, what website am I on? I was on the National Park Service website. Oh, yeah. And it's very interesting. It was very helpful. After Abraham Lincoln's election, Southern sympathizers conspire.

to prevent his inauguration. In January of 1861, nurse Dorothea Dix, is that not an incredible name or what? Dorothea Dix. Dorothya Dix. Dix. Whenever she wants. And good for Dorothea. Yeah.

She brought rumours of this conspiracy to the attention of Samuel Morse Felton, but he was Samuel H. Felton a moment ago. Anyway, Samuel H. Felton. He's a horse. Oh, no, I let it slip for a second. I mean, Moss, Moss. Moss. We have a long-running joke in our house

that I'm a pig that's been turned into a girl, but I'm always passionately defending that I'm not. Oh my God. I've never eaten out of a trough. What are you talking about? That adds up. It's a really fun bit. You've let it slip off.

I know, that's a mistake. Pig girl, you shouldn't have said that on the podcast. Now we've got that. We are not changing my name in the group chat to pig girl. All right. And change. No. I'm currently.

girl boss. What am I? You don't see your own. Battle Pope, I think, still. Pretty good. And I am. Yeah, you're Battle Pope. I don't know what you are.

Jess isn't. Oh, your Thickset Todd. Oh, my God. I don't remember what he's a friend. No, we never do. I think Thickset Todd is a patron's dog. Yes. Who we thought was a human for a while and then it was revealed that it was a dog.

We thought it was a gigantic toddler and we were like, oh, my, something's not right here. So what are you pig girl now? No, I don't want to be pig girl. She protests too much. Pig girl boss. Big girl boss. He said boss hog. Boss hog.

All right, your boss hog. Anyway, so Dorothy Adicks, she told them that there were this rumors that Southern sympathizers were conspiring to prevent the inauguration. So she met with Felton. It told him that she'd heard that Southern forces were preparing to seize Washington, D.C. She also revealed that they planned to cut off the railroad lines in Baltimore. And this is a quote, Mr. Lincoln's inauguration was a quote, thus to be prevented or his life to fall a sacrifice.

Oh. Upon learning of these reports, Felton called in Railroad Detective Alan Pinkerton. So Pinkerton believed there might be some truth to these rumours, so he gathered several of his detectives and began to investigate. Pinkerton and several of his agents, including Kate Warren, infiltrated meetings of a secret society. This group was the Knights of the Golden Circle, who planned the creation of a new nation dominated by slavery.

Warren and Pinkerton learned that they planned to kill Lincoln when he arrived at the Baltimore train station on February 23rd. Whoa, how different world history or modern world history would be if that succeeded. Yeah. Because I don't think I ever really put it together, but you know, the whole birth of America, how, you know, if they got done, like if America didn't win that civil war, but that revolutionary war with England, you know, Washington everyone would have been killed as traitors. They would have been hung, hanged. But it's so funny to think they could have been a slave nation. Isn't that bizarre? And I'm pretty sure, like, the president before Lincoln and the vice president,

which I think I probably will speak to in a sec, they were part of this Knights of the Golden Circle. Such a, just the name itself sounds so creepy. Yeah. It sounds like the bad guys in a Tintin comic. Yes, yeah, yeah. And I just did a very cool. quick like Wikipedia read and I was like oh this is weird and full on but they were very pro

slavery and they wanted to it was like parts of southern America but then also parts of like the Caribbean and that was going to be the nation yeah it made this sort of big circle area that they were planning on sort of dominating and I just didn't like the whole idea of land of the free which is what you know America kind of is called at the moment yeah they wanted land of the slave Yeah, isn't it? That's a real, that's a big rebrand. Like, isn't it just like, if that had happened, imagine how different the world would be.

It's very, it's bizarre. You'd like to think it wouldn't have lasted long in the context of the right, wide of world, but who knows? Who knows? Maybe it would have changed everything, and we'd all be slaves. So weird.

And you never would have become a girl. You'd still be a pig. It could have changed everything. I was like, what the fuck do you mean? Because I was a pig. I have said. It would have just been a hog. I'm not a pig.

I was a pig. Yes. There's a big butterfly wing moment that changed you from a pig to a girl. I regret telling you that. It's just a fun little story at home. It is a fun little story. Now it work. Little pig girl.

Little pig. I'm not it I never was. That'll do. I don't love rolling in mud. The secessionist plot was said to be that when Lincoln was passing through part of a Calvert Street station, a fight would occur, resulting in police officers rushing out, leaving Lincoln entirely unprotected, and at the mob, at the mercy of a mob of secessionists that would surround him.

They'd knock his hat off. And he'd be like, no, I'm so embarrassed. And now my hat's all dusty. I look short now. Oh, no, I've got hat hair. Don't. Give it back. It was further alleged that a small steamship had been chartered, sitting in a nearby river,

on which the murderers would flee and travel immediately to the state of Virginia. Which is part of the new country? So they're just cutting off and leaving the rest of the rest of existing USA? I think so. I didn't look too far into it. Because that's what seceding is, right? It's not a takeover. It's just we want these bits.

These are out. Where we live, we don't want to be a part of you anymore. Fascinating. I know, it is. So back to the National Park Service. On February 21st, 1861, Lincoln's inaugural train arrived in Philadelphia. Around 100,000 people welcomed to the President-elect, and his carriage rode through Philadelphia to the Continental Hotel.

After arriving at his hotel, Lincoln had a very busy schedule that included speeches, a public reception, a concert, and fireworks. Sounds like a beautiful day. Is he giving the concert? Yes, yeah, viola. Viola. And now some tap dancing. Lincoln rocks the boat.

He's a beautiful performer I think if he knows that there might there's like people are out for his life fireworks is a wild way to celebrate I'm not sure he knows yet we're gonna give you a great time to shoot us without anyone really noticing you know like in

Banga! Although like those prison break movies where they break out I'm thinking of Shawshank they break out on a thundering night so they can do the smashing When the thunder strikes? It's just smart. Just smart.

Just like these secessionists, very smart people. And I'm sure we're going to keep hearing that now. Yeah, we're going to really be on their side. Around 10.15 in the evening, Lincoln prepared for bed, but received a note to urgently go to the room of his advisor, Norman Judd. So he does that. Ten minutes later, Lincoln entered the room where Judd introduced him to Detective Alan Pinkerton. Lincoln listened as Pinkerton told him that when his train pulled into Baltimore,

a mob would be waiting to murder him as he changed trains. Pinkerton urged Lincoln that he should instead leave for Washington, D.C. that night. While Lincoln was concerned, he declined as he wanted to speak at Independence Hall in the morning, but said he'd consider the warning. He was like, well, okay, thanks. Yeah, take it on board. Yeah, cool. Roger that, but I've got stuff to do.

It's kind of amazing that he got the reception from the president himself. I know. Yeah, well, that must be how much Lincoln's people believe. Yes, and he must be a pretty respected guy. Yeah. But also I think things used to be different. Like, you used to be able to walk into the White House, you know? Like, it was early on, it was like, I'm of the people and it's all, you know, I'm walking

down the street and stuff. That's why I guess some of those assassinations happened in the olden days because people could just walk up. They're one of the presidents who got shot. The guy just walked up to him and shot him, point blank, which obviously, this is before, And this is all before the Secret Service and stuff. Yeah, yeah. But can I just say, I was firstly quite surprised at how close I was able to get to the White House in D.C.

He could just get up to the gate. I was like, it's right there. Right. But also, Secret Service, they have Secret Service written on their backs. Oh, that's come on. I was like, it's not very secretive boys. And you're holding a big fucking rifle. I think I know who you are.

That's still really everyone in America, though, isn't it? A bit of fun. They're decoys. True. Oh, they're just actors. I'm sure there were plenty of Secret Service that I did not. Yeah, they're just hiding. Hot dogs, come get your hot dogs.

And I'm like, that's just a hot dog guy. Yeah. And he's a head honcho. Every person, you were the only one there, including your partner. You were the only one there who wasn't Secret Service. Whoa! Yeah. It was all put on for you.

But they were on to you as well. They knew what you were trying to do. They were watching me. And Joe Biden came out to shake your hand, that was a look-a-like. Yeah. They knew what I was trying to do. Shake her d'ine's hand. trying to find the cheesecake factory to get some cheesecake.

Now, are we still doing ad jingles? Cheesecake munching on a cheesecake, munching on a cheesecake. Cheesecake shop, we all go crazy over cake at the cheesecake shop. Yeah. Wow. Are we still doing that? Yeah. Okay.

Is that, do you think that's the international? Is that an Australian franchise of an American company cheesecake shop? No, two different things. One's a factory. On's a shop. Oh, my God. Cheesecake factory, like, full sit-down dinner. Oh.

And they have. Of cheesecake? No. Yeah. They do a bit of everything. But everything includes cheesecake, right? Oh yeah, yeah, you've got to get the cheesecake. So you get your bangers and cheesecake.

That's right. Palmer and cheesecake. Yeah, yeah. Pasture and cheesecake. Instead of side of chips or salad, it's cheesecake. Of course. Tomato soup, no spoon. Deep is a bit of cheesecake factory.

Yeah. Are you stupid? They put a bit of buttered cheesecake on the side of your pumpkin soup. Lovely. Dip it in. Delicious. Absolutely gorgeous. Cheesecake.

Well, that's a confusing bit of branding, I reckon. If you're going to serve everything, come on. Don't call yourself the Cheesecake Factory. I will not have Cheesecake Factory slander in this podcast studio. Oh, oh, am I slandering it? I fucking love the Cheesecake Factory. You know what?

I love a place that cheeses a few items and they're really good at it. I've just looked up, the Cheesecake Factory, over 250 menu items freshly prepared from scratch to order every day. Yes, that's, if Gordon Ram's is going in, like, I've seen a few of those kitchen art-nesting. Okay, actually slander. This isn't slander. No, no, no. I'm reading out what they do.

250 different items very well. If Gordon Ramsey goes in there, he says, we're chopping this back. Do three things well, maybe cheesecake. And let's get rid of the rest. Probably 100 of those 250 things are different types of cheesecake. There's so many different types of cheesecake. I went to a pub for a pub meal last week, and it was they needed the Gordon Ramsey touch. Yeah.

I ordered the curry. It was, it's like, Hello, flavour. Where are you? Hello? It's a curry. I can't taste it. Pub should have one page menu.

Like, that's it. They were doing cuisine from around the world, unfortunately. Nah, not, no, no, no, no. Eight things all done very well. Steak, Palmer. I'm okay with like a curry or something like that. Do it well. Veggie lasagna.

Yep. Do a veggie pasta type thing. Yep. Yeah, yep. A pie. Obviously, I'm very pro pie at a pub. Yeah, I wish I went to the pie That of fish and chips

There was a beautiful looking pie there Which I wish I had Matt sent me a photo of it actually Yeah And I am going to go there Wow And I'm gonna ask if I can come You might remember me

I made a mistake last time You're car so can I have the pie I won't be having the car again That's up! Anyway, sorry Where are we up to Oh yeah Lincoln's like

Thank you so much for letting me know Really appreciate that I'm gonna go to bed and then stick to my original plan. Thank you. But before he could go to bed, Frederick Seward, the son of his future secretary of state, arrived bringing a letter from his father

that also told of a threat against Lincoln's life in Baltimore. So two separate entities have come across his information and being like, I think you're a threat. And that second warning helped convince Lincoln that the threat was real, and he agreed to alter his plan to protect his life. Let's be fair. That's not two things.

He ignored the first. I'm getting this crackpot out of my side. And then someone he actually knows, the sent a letter, he's going, okay, I'll listen to this guy. We all have people we know who, if they tell us something, and we go, oh, yeah, but in the back of your head, you're like, that's probably bullshit. And then if somebody else confirms it, you go, oh, okay. Yeah.

We have someone who is posting on Facebook or something saying, repost this to protect your identity. Yeah. I go, okay. I hear by declare. Yeah, yeah. That I do not wish for my information. information to be sold.

I always say, thank you so much, Ardy Doris. Yeah, yeah, you've done really well there. That's definitely legit. But then if Dave Warnocky says that, I'll go, okay, the Dave is aging quicker than I realize. Dave is middle-aged. I think he's also been hacked.

So a new plan was formed. Lincoln would meet Alan Pinkerton in Philadelphia and take a secret train to Baltimore. Oh, Lincoln's going to now team up with Pinkerton beyond his prediction. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Pinkerton and his detective's, going to basically usher the president-elect out. Cool.

Big job. For protection, they selected Ward Hill. Wait, his name can't be Ward Hill. Maybe. I think it can be. They selected Ward Hill Lamon. Oh, my God. Lehmann?

L-A-M-O-N-A-N-N-A-N. A burly friend of Lincoln's from Illinois. Governor Curtin, concerned about Lincoln's security, asked Lamon if he was armed. LeMond then at once uncovered a small arsenal of deadly weapons. showing that he was literally armed to the teeth. In addition to a pair of... What's he got? Sorry, I'm so excited.

I'm excited. I'm excited. Sorry, Jess. Dave's got a question for you. If you could shut up and let Dave ask his questions. Sorry, sorry. I'm just like, my mind is running wild. I'm sorry.

I just like the idea of like, are you sure you're going to be okay? And he just like opens your jacket. Yeah, that's what's in there? What do you did? You're picturing them popping the boot? You know those scenes in the movies? Do we have any guns? Oh, we got guns.

I pop the boot on the boot on the boot on. And a thing just goes, sorry, Lamon, please, I'm so excited. In addition to a pair of heavy revolvers, he had a slung shot and a brass knuckles and a huge knife nested out of his vest. Huge knife. He's got a knife, he's got brass knuckles, he's got multiple guns. I think he'll be right.

I love the adjective heavy for a weapon. We've got heavy revolvers. Yeah, well, it's just, you know, at the time. That means they might not shoot, but you can just knock them over there with these things. Because they are, they weigh a ton. These days, they're too lightweight. This is Vinnie Jones in a movie. Oh, my God, yes.

Opening the coat and you're like, Oh, okay. And he's burly too. When I was in L.A., we did like a little bus tour of the Hollywood Hills, and they were like pointing out celebrity houses and stuff, which felt a bit gross, but. Went in Hollywood. Yeah, totally. And at one stage, she's like, yeah, so just this house back there,

British actor, I don't know, some of you may know him, Vinny Jones. And everybody on the bus is fairly quiet, and I'm going, And he's like, yeah, he's in a couple of things. And I was like, he should have for those Phidney Jones. I was very excited about that. Cool. Other times he's like, that's Jennifer Lawrence's house. I was like, don't care.

Keep driving. Show me Vinny Jones. They're both X-Men. Whoa. Makes you think. Nearly everyone in Hollywood's been an X-Men. Is Vinny Jones in X-Men? He was, uh, he's on the juggernaut.

Juggernaut. He's the one that could run through the walls. Fuck yeah, that's cool. That's Vinny Jones. Yeah, I reckon Lamont is Vinny Jones. That's so cool. So around 10 in the evening of February 22nd, Lincoln finally arrived at the Philadelphia train station.

Instead of Lincoln spending the night and taking his scheduled train the next day, Pinkerton instead immediately transported the president-elect to a different station with an earlier train heading towards Baltimore. At the station, they met with Kate Warren, who was gathering information and managing logistics. Apparently, like, she was basically, she organized all of this. It was all Kate. And they had like a disguise for Lincoln. I think they might have even put him in a wheelchair or something.

Oh, yeah. And she, he put on like a shawl and a hat or something. He famously stands. Well, he's very tall. Maybe that would be noticeable. So I could be wrong about that. But I think I read the head of middle wheelchair. And he was, um, Kate had sort of set it up with this story that she needed.

Um, she had booked like, uh, specific carriages or like sections together because she was traveling with her, um, ill brother and stuff like that. So they've put him in this disguise. One of those things were like, the checking in with a ticket giving all this background of the guys like, I don't care. I don't care. Why are you talking to? Just need to see your tickets.

You've got the ticket five minutes ago. I was happy to move on. I'll never think of you again. A bit of a missed opportunity though. Like, I'd rather that could be Lincoln's sister. Okay, now we're off the scent. Hello. Hello.

Could have been a missed doubtfire. When you can doubt fire and you don't doubt fire, you bring great shame. Yeah. Absolutely. So I also read that they, Pinkerton meanwhile, had the telegraph lines interrupted. I don't know if they cut them or just like did something to interrupt them. Spam them a heap.

Spam them. But that prevented any knowledge of the deviation in Lincoln's schedule and anybody being able to communicate and say, oh, I think I just saw Lincoln getting on a different train. Yeah. Pretty clever. It really seems like they've outsmarted them in every way. Yeah.

But I can't wait to find out if that's true, or if he dies. Because I feel like he dies by someone shooting him, so I just don't know if it's now or later. Well, that was in a theatre, not a train. Is this our third Lincoln-related episode? That is partly why a lot of people suggested the topic is to complete the Lincoln trilogy. Love it. Incredible. And I think you must have mentioned Pinkerton and said, like, remind me in the hat,

because several people said, this is me reminding that. Oh, great. But I don't, this, I really feel like this is a quadrilogy, because I've got to tell the story of his life. He did some fun things, he's wrestling and stuff like that. Wrestling. I'll put him up to the vote a few times. Don't look into it, Jess.

I want to, I want you to be a gobsmack. I want to know nothing about Lincoln. I saw O'Mary on Broadway in New York, and that's about Mary Todd Lincoln, and it's fucking ridiculous and so funny. He married a Todd? A thicket Todd? A fixette Todd? Mary fixette Todd Lincoln? Okay, well, that's changing your name.

Anyway, so Lincoln, he arrived in D.C. safely, and the press criticized his secretive arrival. They're like, pussy! Many papers mocked Lincoln. with artists drawing caricatures showing a disguised Lincoln sneaking into the capital. But a little more than a week later, he was inaugurated as the 16th president of the United States. Alive. Alive. Okay, worth it.

He was inaugurated. So that was March of 1861. The American Civil War officially started on the 12th of April. So he's sworn he's inaugurated and then a couple weeks later, civil war. Obviously, there was like, that was all kind of building anyway. and that was part of why secessionists wanted to get rid of him is because they knew his stance. So the Knights of the Golden Circle,

they were like a big part of the South. What was the South called again? The Confederacy. Yeah, yeah. I believe so. Wow. I'm wondering, have you, either of you seen the classic Nicholas Cage films

National Treasure? I literally watched it while I was in D.C. Does he, I think, does the Knights of the Golden Circle? Did I tell you I was rustling in? I was recently there. I feel like maybe the Knights of the Golden Circle would mention that or maybe not. It is some sort of secret society type thing. Maybe it's a play on that.

I don't think I can. Or maybe it's got nothing to do with it at all. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention. You really must if you want to get the subtext of a film like that. A beautiful film. So fresh from their public success at foiling the Baltimore plot, which was the plot to kill Lincoln. General George McLennon, who was the. commanding the Union Army of the Potomac,

tasked Alan Pinkerton to set up and supervise the Union Army's first intelligence organization. His agents often worked undercover as Confederate soldiers and sympathizers to gather military intelligence. In wheelchairs as sick brothers. Always brothers. One of Pinkerton's most accomplished agents was Timothy Webster. Early in the war, the former New York policeman ventured through several southern states, cultivating friendships with Confederate soldiers

and collecting intelligence on Confederate military strength and morale. He also traveled frequently to Richmond, Virginia, establishing connections with high-level Confederate government and military leaders, including the Confederate Secretary of War, who unwittingly provided sensitive information to Timothy Webster. Wow. On another occasion, he convinced a Confederate confidant to give him a tour of Richmond's defenses.

So he's just like having to look around, making little mental notes reporting that. Yeah. I'm just, I'm a visual learner. He's like, oh, yeah. We're so glad they don't know about this. This is a real weak spot for us. They could just waltz in here.

That is paper mashet that wall. Don't tell anyone. We can't reinforce it. He's impersonation of a southern sympathizer was so convincing the Confederate government trusted him and used him as a courier between Richmond and Southern sympathizers in Baltimore in Maryland. Oh man, that's what a perfect.

He's a great little spy. He's a great little spy. Expoits ended in April of 1862 when fellow Pinkerton operatives, Price Lewis and John Scully were captured by Confederates and divulged his name in exchange for more lenient sentences. Dogs. They'd dogs. Yeah. So his espionage was deeply embarrassing to the Confederacy and he was subsequently arrested,

tried and sentenced to death by a Confederate court. Damn. So they ratted him out while he was behind enemy lines. Yeah. Unlucky. Despite President Lincoln's threat to execute a Confederate spy in retaliation, Webster was hanged. At his hanging, the rope came loose and Webster fell to the ground. I suffer a double death, he quipped to the hangman. Oh, are you going to choke me this time?

He's just like poking the bear a little bit. Isn't that? I think that's, I don't think you can be hanged twice for the same crime. I think, yeah, double jeopardy. Double jeopardy. I love that Ashley Judd movie. Fantastic. Great movie. Pinkerton himself served on several undercover missions as a Confederate soldier using the alias major E.J. Allen. Oh yeah. Which I guess it'd be good because like if I pretended my surname was Jess and somebody was saying

hey Jess, I'd be like, yeah? Like I already turn. Oh, oh, yeah, Alan. Because he's named for first and John. Alan. Alan, like that thing. What was that? Was that an ad or a...

It was just a YouTube video that honestly, the first time I saw it, might have been one of the hardest laughs I've ever had in my life. And by the, what, seventh or eighth time? Still good. And then people saying it at the cricket. Do you remember that? People'd say it at the cricket, Alan.

And people were like, no, Alan. And everyone would laugh. That's good stuff. Steve. Still funny. That's what I remember saying. Still funny. Keep it up.

It's good stuff. Still loving this. A year on. No stuff. He worked across the deep south in the summer of 1861, focusing on fortifications and confederate plans. He was found out in Memphis and barely escaped with his life. Literally just a sentence there, no detail on how, but he did escape.

Good for him. The rope dropped. They're ropes. So he's out of the ground and just kept running. He said, hang me twice. It can't get hanged again. Now watch the strap. That's him driving.

Jump away, yeah. Now watch me drive. This counterintelligence work done by Pinkerton and his agents is compared to the work done by today's US Army counterintelligence special agents. They kind of see that like Pinkerton is considered an early predecessor. But military historians have been strongly critical of the intelligence, Pinkerton provided to the Union Army, which for the most part was not really the most reliable data. But like you were sort of saying before, Matt, it's like, what's a detective? We've

never had one of those before. Like, they're kind of making this up a little bit. Of course they seem to have done some things well, but of course they can't be, they're not as good as we are now. Well, yeah, of course not. Yeah, they didn't learn under a grizzled old detective. Yeah, they were figuring shit out. Why wasn't he swabbing for DNA? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Incredibly embarrassing. In the view of T. Harry Williams, Pinkerton's work was the poorest intelligence service any general ever had. So Pinkerton's estimates of rebel troop numbers, which he got from Confederate prisoners, deserters, refugees, escaped slaves, civilians, all people who are not used to counting large

groups of men. How much do you say? And they need to sort of add them all together. 58 million. 58 million of them. We're fucked. We are. That is exactly it.

Not 58 million, but it really exaggerated the size of those groups, sometimes almost doubling the actual numbers. And then that's the information that's being sent back to the general. So his numbers caused McClellan to consistently believe that he was drastically outnumbered by the Confederate forces he faced. His actions in the face of what he believed were overwhelming odds were unduly cautious. And that caused him to avoid offensive action. And yeah, so they were sort of being more cautious than they needed to be because the information they were getting wasn't the most accurate. There were three guys. There was only three. Yeah, but they thought they were six. Six or seven.

Nearly six. It's scary stuff. So President Lincoln, unhappy with McClellan's general pattern of over-cortion, he relieved McClellan of his command. Okay. He got the sack. Loyal to his former commander, Pinkerton resigned from the army, finished out the war investigating government fraud,

and eventually returned to his detective agency. He was back to the post office, Judy's full sound of it? Oh, mate. He was like, get in the van. Got some packages. I'm delivering, I'm investigating the mail on my route. Hey, Marjorie. Picks up all the boxes and shakes them.

I'm investigating the mail. Oh, okay. Oh, that one's broken. Yeah, mate, boy. Just deliver the packages. If it wasn't broken before, it certainly is now. Do you know what used to be? Yes, Pinkerton, we've heard it all before.

A detective, a word none of us know what it means. Doesn't mean anything. So this is another one of those short things that is worth mentioning about Pinkerton. So one of the many ways the Pinkerton's revolutionized law enforcement was with their so-called Rogues Gallery, a collection of mugshots and case histories that the agency used to research and keep track of wanted men. Along with noting suspects distinguishing marks and scars, agents also collected newspaper clippings and generated rap sheets detailing their previous arrests, their known associates,

and areas of expertise, which by today's standard, you're like, uh-huh, but that wasn't really a done thing back then. Is that where the term Rokes Gallery comes from? Or this is just an example of one. They're so-called Rokes Gallery. So, yeah, I don't know. That's, I mean, it's a fun term. I hope they came up with it.

A more sophisticated criminal. I really hope they're not just ripping off someone else. There was actually a Shakespeare term. Or if that, if that source was just saying that's what was, I'm not sure. Which is very possible. I don't know what. Like, you're allowed to use words that already exist. To describe, yeah, yeah.

A more sophisticated criminal library wouldn't be assembled until the early 20th century and the birth of the FBI. So they were kind of ahead of their time there. Wow. I have looked it up. It is. It is. Popularized by American detectives Ellen Pinkerton and Thomas F. Burns. Rogue and Gallery together makes Rogue's Gallery.

That's sick. Love that. Hmm. Kind of interesting. I love. This is like, this is pretty. interesting, unique thing about me, but I love hearing about the origins of things. Wow.

That's one of my things that I do. I have a podcast to recommend to you. Oh, yeah? Yeah, you can learn about all sorts of stuff. What's it called? Serial killers and, like, biographies and, like, world history events and stuff. Yeah. And I cannot remember the name.

Okay. Silly name. I always see it on Instagram and go, Dugoon. Oh, Dugoon. What does that mean? What does that mean? Something like that. Something along those lines.

It's great advice. Yeah. Or doggoon. I'm going to grab a box on the way home. Yeah. Of Dugoon. Of Dugoon, yeah. Another sort of sub-topic that came up a lot in people suggesting it was Cowboys.

Okay. During the era of frontier expansion, express companies and railroads often employed the Pinkertons as Wild West bounty hunters. Oh, that sounds so cool. In the late 1860s, the Pinkerton Agency captured the Reno Brothers gang, the first organized train robbers in the United States. Pinkerton himself chased Frank Reno all the way to Windsor, Ontario. Whoa. During that same period, Pinkerton detectives nabbed several more high-profile bank and train robbers, in some cases recovering thousands of stolen dollars.

In one instance, Pinkerton men followed another group of bandits from New York to Canada, where they arrested them and recovered nearly $300,000 in cash. Wow. That's a lot. But yeah, that's kind of fun, isn't it? Like bounty hunters out in the Wild West. It just feels like, yeah, to me, Pinkerton's starting to sound like Forrest Gump, whatever, just running through history, you know, just collecting, it's like, wait, the Wild West?

Yeah. And he's got all these, like, obviously people working for him, but then he's also on the ground himself there. Yeah. I think he had, or hundreds of detectives working. Like, it was big. It was very big. It could even be like a thousand.

It was a lot of people working there. The agency gained a reputation for tenacity and citizens terrorized by outlaws looked to the Pinkerton's as heroes. The agency also pursued Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Oh, they're real people. I know, I didn't. Which I knew. I knew that too.

I definitely knew that too. Definitely knew that too. Not just Robert Redford or something. Yep. And Paul Newman? Really? Yeah. Whoa.

Four the source. Two very hot guys. Oh my God. I saw them at Madam Tucson. I didn't see them, obviously. Yeah. But yeah, smoke and hot. Holy shit.

They're got to be two of the hottest all time. Hollywood, right? Smoking hot and taller than you think. Really? There you go. Because the wax works are to scale. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of hotness doesn't, like, through the years, you go, oh, that was what hot was back then? Totally. We see photos and we go. Casanova? Aren't we like, le. Yeah.

But those two, yeah, very, at least for the 50 year period, I'm sure in 100 years, people are like, Really? They'll be spewing up thinking about Paul Newman. Imagine how ugly will be to people in 100 years. No, no, imagine it's going to come around. Do you reckon? We could be really hot. You know what could come in?

What? Mishapen heads. Maybe Uggos will be cool. Because for a long time, symmetry has been seen as, oh, it's so hard, symmetry. I reckon miss shaping. Yeah. It's going to. We're coming for you.

It's got to. It's got to. It's got to. It's got to. Please. Please in our lifetime, please. If I don't, I mean, if I don't believe it, I'll just give up. What's the point of anything?

So they chased Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid to Bolivia. Wow. Their most famous pursuit involved that of Jesse James and his game. Holy shit. The James Younger gang. Wow. I didn't even, I didn't realize these. I mean, first I didn't realize those last two were real people.

But I didn't. So these are all around the same time. I think I'm thinking of a different Paul Newman and other guy film. The sting. I think I was thinking of the sting. So these were cowboys. They're some dance kid. And yeah, yeah, okay.

This makes more sense. But Robert Redford, Paul Newman's still hot. Like that's none of what we said before was not relevant. Whatever kind of hat or what kind of era they're pretending to be in. Don't care. Hot. Hot. Mustache, no mustache.

Whatever. Hot. They can do it all. Mustache and no mustache. Yeah. Which is, they change your look so much. A guy looks good in a mustache. You take it off and often they will look dog shit.

Yeah. I'm talking to your dad. Do not shave it off. You listen to. Which is me saying that dad's hot with a mustache, I think, just recapping. Is that what I said? Why? What's wrong with saying your dad's hot?

Nothing. that's what I was just making sure everyone understood. I was saying the truth. Yeah. You got a hot dad. Got a hot dad. Must be nice. Yeah.

Yeah. Your dad is... No mustache. Let's just say that. Let's just say that. Let's just say he's waiting for his time to come around like us. I have never seen my dad with a mustache or even really a beard. I think a mustache could fix him up a bit.

Fix him up. I don't think so. It could distract. I think it could make him look like a pervert. No, I love the squirrel. Squire. Good on him, too. The beautiful looking man. Anyway, Jesse James. Oh, yeah, that's right. Another amazing, famous person that he's gone after.

Yeah. So, as members of various gangs of outlaws, Jesse and Frank James robbed banks, stagecoaches and trains across the Midwest, gaining national fame and often popular sympathy despite the brutality of their crimes. They're a little bit of a Ned Kelly type because they were portrayed as like Robin Hood, you know, robbing from the rich, giving to the poor. It was very like, it was romantic revisionism, you know. There's no evidence of his gang sharing any loot with anyone outside of their network, but it's just that sort of, it was a bit like the net Kelly thing. Robbing from the rich still, if they were poor. Yeah, yeah. You know, robbing from the rich, give him to the poor.

Us. Ourselves. Now we're rich. Oh, no. Was Brad, I think of Brad Pitt is, he's sort of the, our generation's Robert Redford, right? I don't think Robert Redford's ever had, like, horrible accusations against him. I'm not saying in that way. I'm just meaning, like, leading me.

man kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Stone Cold Fox. Did he play Jesse James? Yeah, he was in the Jesse James movie. With the Nick Cave, Nick Cave scored it, I think. Yeah. Oh, well done.

No, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think. And it's got that really, really, really long title. I'm picturing. The Coward. The Salon of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. Oh, my God.

Yeah, okay. Oh, is that what I'm thinking of Robert Redford? That might be why I'm collating it all. It was Brad Pitt and Casey Affleck. Oh, has Colin Farrell? Geez. That line. Up is not.

Provo. Has Colin Farrell ever played Jesse James? Let me look it up. That's what I'm picturing it. I don't know why. The Irishman? Yeah. Yeah, great.

Are you thinking of the penguin? Yes, he has in. Well done. 2001 American Outlaws. Really? There you go. So Jesse James been on the telly a lot. Been on the telly.

The big screen, I should say. Anyway, so... Both films bombed. Oh, interesting. Well, box office was, anyway. Maybe critical acclaim. and they found a greater audience later on. But, um, yeah.

The, the resource I was using for this bit says, uh, Jesse James was also an unreformed Southern secessionist. And I feel like they're kind of saying that so that you don't feel bad for him if he gets caught or killed or whatever. Like, yeah, it was romantic revisionism. And he, he wanted to, he was, you know, he was pro-slavery. And you're like, okay. Yeah, I didn't, I wasn't actually, I didn't think he was a big hero.

Okay, just very defensive. Anyway, and now I've done that in reading it out. And I think that's fun. Well, sometimes you've just got to get ahead of the game. That's right. In 1874, the Adams Express Company, once again, they turned to Pinkerton to stop the James Younger gang because they just kept stealing all the money.

Because the gang received support from many Confederate soldiers in Missouri, they eluded the Pinkettons. They kept people hiding them. Joseph Witcher, an agent dispatched to infiltrate the James's family farm, was soon found killed. Two other agents, Captain Louis J. Lull and John Boyle were sent after the Youngers. Lull was killed by two of the Youngers in a roadside gunfight. Before he died, Lull fatally shot John Younger. A deputy sheriff named Edwin Daniels also died in the skirmish.

So it's very Bonnie and Clyde. It's very cowboys. And the Pinkerton's getting knocked off. Yep. But he's got heaps to spare. I mean, they're not like, he's got so many of them. But yeah, they get killed. Of course.

After which is murder, Alan Pinkerton took on the case as a personal vendetta. He began to work with former unionists who lived near the James family farm and sent more agents after the gang. In January of 1875, a group of Pinkerton men and a local and a local posse responding to a tip, rushed to James's mother's Missouri farm. What kind of posse? Like a pussy posse or? Just like a bunch of. Like there was like a hairstylist and like a...

What is pussy posse? Is that anything? I don't know. It's just something that's fun to say maybe. It might be something in your world. An insane clown one? It's not for me. I only know two kinds of possees.

Pussy Pussy Pussy, Pussy, insane clown posse. Okay. This is probably... And you know what? Two of the same things. This is probably insane clown posse. Yeah, okay. So the mother, Jesse James's mother.

Zarelda Samuel. Zarelda's great. Zareld is a great name, isn't it? She was a lot. a secessionist and a dedicated, she was, she was a dedicated slaveholder, is how they've said it. Okay. So she was very angry about the way that the war had turned out. And Samuel saw Jesse and Frank, the sons of her first marriage, as freedom fighters for the downtrod in southern states.

So funny, the inbuilt irony of freedom fighting for slavery. Yeah. It's really bizarre, isn't it? So she didn't, she was like, they're not bandits and murderers. their freedom fighters. Right. So when the Pinkerton-led raids appeared on her farm late one night, she refused to surrender. So they'd received a tip that that's where Jesse and Frank would have been.

So a standoff happened. Someone threw a lantern into the darkened house. Apparently to aid visibility. I just can't see. I'm just going to throw this lit torch in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we'll be able to see better. Weirdly, there was an explosion.

Okay. Which lit up the night sky. Briefly, that made visible. Really, almost too good. Whoa, whoa. I'm taking too much data in my eyes. They stormed in to find Zarelda Samuel's right arm blown off. Oh.

And her husband, Rubin, and their three young children had also been inside. To the detective's horror, eight-year-old Archie, Jesse James's half-brother, lay fatally wounded on the floor. Oh, awful. So the death of Archie Samuel was a public relations nightmare for Pinkerton detectives. remember they were like they had quite a good reputation. Yeah, so far. But they haven't killed any kids by this point, has it?

This really, yeah. Killing a kid was really not good for them. And it turns out, Jesse and Frank had had, they'd been a tip off and they were not there. So not that it would have made it any better if they had caught these bandits. But there's like even less to show for it now. But now you look like you're bumbling as well. Yeah, exactly. You've made this horrible mistake.

And they're like, oh, no, no, no, it was an accident. But it's like, well, I don't. That seems suss. Anyway, so yeah. Yeah, they're saying that. afterwards. Quick, let's get our story straight. Yeah. It was just to see. We threw that bomb in there to light up the place. As in light up visibly. Visibility. Visibility. That's what we meant. How could we know a child was in there? When I said to the guards with all the bombs,

light it up. I meant visibly. It was a cross wire. We didn't know that there was a family inside this family home. How could we have known? How could we have known? We had to check. And you're mad? Oh, everyone makes mistakes. They just go through that roller coaster. Oh, sorry. Well, If I'm in trouble for trying to save my country, well, then I guess I'm in trouble. Am I in trouble? Oh, great. Well, if that's a crime, well, then I guess I'm a criminal. Okay.

And then every war has its casualties. Yeah, yeah. So public opinion, which had been very supportive until now of the Pinkertons, it really shifted. One sensational biography of James published a few years after his death. Is that you describing it? Oh, mate, it was sensational. I knew it. Did you hear me hesitate before I said sensational?

I knew this would happen. That's why I was like, do I say it? Well, if you, look, I think you got two choices. Don't say it. Or do and accept it. But don't try it. Don't shoot us down for just trying to be involved in the show doing the thing that we always do. Yeah.

Or I knew it. I knew you'd try to make light of a thing. Yeah. Yes, that's what the show is. Jess, please. I knew you used that microphone to talk. Honestly, you've made me feel very small in that moment. And that's just honest feedback, okay?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But tell us more about this sensational your words book. It's so good when he does that to just give him nothing and then watch him eat his own top lip. I'm just, oh, no, no. Okay, just a bit of honest feedback. And as soon as we stop recording, he'll go, we're okay, right? I was just joking. I was just done a little joke there. We just had a bit of fun, right?

We're okay. That honest feedback, Jess. That wasn't really that honest. And Jess will give you the silent treatment for six days until we record next week. Yeah, I know. And the loop continues. Pig girl will not reply. No.

Sorry, pick your boss. Boss hog. Okay, anyway. So the biography ruled that the explosion was a dastardly piece of business, a cowardly act thoroughly inexcusable. Though Pickett and insisted it was. one of the locals, not one of his men, but threw the bomb. The tragedy did, uh, did much to build Jesse James's legend and stain the Pinkerton agency's reputation. So have they gone from saying, we was only to light him up and then, and we didn't even do it anyway. It was somebody else.

It wasn't even us, but we're, oh, we're copping the blame for it? Okay, yeah, that's typical. So, uh, they, he'd been defeated. After seeing his detectives denounced as murderers in the paper, Alan Pinkerton reluctantly called off his war against the James gang. Sorry, got emotional there. No, I just had to burble. You wanted the water. I can't believe they're called on. I just called off the war.

Do you talk about the cowed Robert Ford? No. Because I only know him from the title of that movie. And you don't talk about any of the other people from the James gang? No. Just because I looked up to see who played the characters, the actors. Who played the characters? Which actors are?

Brad Pitt, Jesse James. Casey Fick as Robert Ford. I haven't come across his coat before. Paul Schneider as Dick Little. Oh, that's good. It was one of the last surviving members of the game. Dick Little. Because in the Robin Hood gang, there was a Little as well.

Little John. Little John, but Little Dick. Little Dick. That's great. Little John, small toilet. Little Dick. Small way to go to the toilet. Paul Schneider's in Parks and Rec.

So that's interesting. He plays Little Dick. He plays Little Dick. Paul Schneider. So, yeah, Jesse would go on to a loop. the authorities for another seven years before being killed in 1882 by an unknown person, I guess. A cowardly, but unknown person.

There's just a, there was super quickly, I wanted to mention another thing that comes up a bit with the Pinkertons. I'll keep it brief. So there's a couple of paragraphs from Wikipedia.org. Again, that fantastic detective looks up. Who knew it? I knew it. No, who done it?

I done it. I done it. I done it. And then Pedia. In the 1870s, Franklin B. Goan, the president... Where is he off to? That's something if you want to know about Franklin. He'd be going.

The man is on the move. He's on the go. It's 100% Gowan, but he's going now. Franklin be going. As soon as just said that, I was like, I mean, you'd say that, man. Hey, dropping in is Franklin been around? Oh, I'm so sorry, Franklin been going, but you know that's what he's like.

You know what he's like. Can't sit still. He was then the president of the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad, hired the agency to investigate the labor unions in the company's mines. A Pinkerton agent, James McParland, using the alias James McKenna, Oh, that's good. That's good. Infiltrated the Molly Maguire's, a 19th century secret society of mainly Irish American coal miners,

leading to the downfall of the organisation. Whoa. Leading to a down, I mean, without knowing anything about them, is it just because they're Irish and miners? What? What did you say they were a criminal gang? No, no, no, it was part of like the labour unions. Oh.

But they were looking, they were trying to get workers' rights. Yeah, how dare they? Oh, no. And this is where Pickett had started to take a turn. Anyway, so, but the interesting part there is that the incident inspired Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes novel, The Valley of Fear. Wow. A Pinkerton agent also appears in a small role in The Adventure of the Red Circle,

another home story. Cool. That's kind of cool. That's really cool. You can know those, Dave? I've heard of The Valley of Fear, one of the four novels, but I haven't read that one, I'm afraid. No, I don't know that one.

Can you read it one day so we don't have to? Yeah, I can. I think there was a podcast. I've done two so far, so the three. I definitely was there for the hounds of basketball. That's right. And I've done another one I believe. Have we said on Dugan before that you're back in at the moment?

Yeah, the book truck is back. Got a couple, by the time this episode comes out, a few episodes out, I've already covered Dune and also the Adventures of Tom Sawyer. Wow. And, yeah. Matt was on both. I'm looking forward to the sequel, the more famous book. Oh, Huckleberry Finn.

Oh, I see, yes. Of course. I've also done a study in Scarlet. Sorry, everyone. Nice. Okay. Nearly there, this is another thing that comes up a lot and absolutely has to be mentioned. So it's very important to include that the Pinkerton's also had a more sinister reputation

as the paramilitary wing of big business. So Alan Pinkerton died in 1884. His sons, William and Robert took over the running of the agency. In the late 1880s, major technological innovations meant that, as an example, the Carnegie Steel Company was able to expand their output. They could make steel suitable for structural beams. and armor plates for the U.S. Navy, which paid good money for like this premium product. So Carnegie installed vastly improved systems of material handling like overhead cranes,

hoists, charging machines and buggies. All of this greatly spread up the process of steelmaking and allowed the production of vastly larger quantities of the product. As the mills expanded, the labor force grew rapidly, especially with unskilled workers. However, while Carnegie Steel grew and progressed, workers at Homestead were seeing their wages drop. So that's one of their mills. Numerous strikes happened over the following years and they culminated in the now infamous Homestead strike. To summarize it from History.com, during an 1892 strike by the amalgamated association of iron and steel workers, the Carnegie Steel Company paid some 300

Pinkertons to act as security at its mill in Homestead, Pennsylvania. After arriving at the plant on river barges, the agent squared off with thousands of strike working workers in an all-day battle waged with guns, bricks and even dynamite. Shit! What a weird... Such a weird turn. Yeah, their evolution is quite bizarre. I know.

By the time the outnumbered Pinkerton's finally surrendered, at least a dozen people were dead and several more wounded. The fallout from the merely crippled the steel union, but also branded the Pinkertons as hired thugs, leading several states to pass laws banning the use of outside guards in labor disputes. So there's been stuff since then where like several states have anti-Pinkerton laws. And yeah, it's such an interesting shift to go from like we're protecting the president to, we want to stop those naughty unions.

But this is how things go, right? When the media and public opinion turned on them, they're like, all right, we're all in now. Yeah, let's lean in. We killed a kid. All right, we're thugs now. Yeah. But here's a tangential, maybe fun fact. this week.

I'll decide. Okay. Just know it's from my mustache dad told me. But you know, Carnegie, so Andrew Carnegie, I think, was one of the founders, Carnegie Hall and all that sort of like super rich family. But, you know, the suburb of Carnegie in Melbourne? Yeah. That was initially called Ross Town, but they were looking for, they wanted some money

invested in, so they changed the name to Carnegie hoping that Andrew Carnegie would chuck money in. No. And I wrote him a letter saying, hey, we named ourselves after you if you want to invest. And he just never did. But it's still known as Carnie. That's so embarrassing. He never wrote back like the Queen.

I just want to ride back. That is so embarrassing. That's so funny. We named our suburb after you. Yeah. And meanwhile, like, Johnny Ross is going, what the fuck? Yeah, come on. Come on.

I founded this park. I paid for the playground. Nothing for Ross Town? That's really funny. That's really funny. That's so funny. Yeah, I've never connected. I'm like.

You know, different suburbs you never really think about. It's like we've got a Richmond. Yeah. All these areas, these names, they pop up everywhere. I wouldn't have thought of Carnegie in Victoria being. A scheme, basically. It's just like a... That's so embarrassing.

Misguided scheme. Just to finish up, in more recent times, the improvement and implementation of government agencies like the FBI, there was less work for the Pinkerton Agency. So they moved to becoming increasingly involved in protection services. In the 1960s, even the word detective disappeared from their letterhead. But it became Pinkerton thugs. Huggery.

Hired thuggery. Is it some thugs? Isn't it thuggery? Yeah, we're out for it. They were purchased, they were bought in 1999 by a Swedish company. Can't believe they're still going. For $384 million. Whoa!

That's some expensive thugs. Yeah, now focus is more on like threat intelligence, risk management, production. We give you intelligent threats. The three years. Threat intelligence. And their union work continues. In 2020, they were hired by Amazon to spy on warehouse workers for signs of union activity.

In 2022, it was reported that the Starbucks had hired a former Pinkerton employee as part of their union busting efforts. This is a fun one. In December of 2018, they issued a cease and desist notice to the video game company Take 2 Interactive over the use of the Pinkerton name and badge in Red Dead Redemption 2. They demanded royalties for each copy of the game sold Or they would take legal action Take 2 maintained that the Pinkerton name Was strongly associated with the Wild West And its use of the term did not infringe

On the Pinkerton trademark And their Swedish company withdrew its claim Yeah, it's great to do that And I like a game company being like, yeah, we can Fuck off And they're like, okay, we will, Jesus I didn't think about that We really hope you just cave

Yeah, I thought you just pays money We didn't have a backup plan. All of these modern anecdotes are pretty lame, so I thought I'd end on a nicer. Still a little bit bleak, but it's a bit nicer. Are you anti-union busting? Anti-union busting. Yeah, I'm confused by that, actually.

Anti-union? Or anti-union busting? Well, no, I'm wondering if you're anti-union busting. Well, I think, like, I don't know. Yeah. I honestly, I am stupid. I don't understand any of it. I don't know why.

I was trying to, I was trying to, put you on the spot to make you say something that you'd regret. And you refuse to. Truly, I understand none of it. But I, because, yeah, you know. Hey, no one asked. Anyway, so like I said, I was finishing up. Well, this is what I think about it.

But, but you know, it's hard, isn't it? Well, we had that old CMFU stuff going on recently. Like, no, you know, some unions are sometimes. Anyway, let's, yes, what were you? I just think when it's like 17 year olds working at Starbucks. Oh, no. No, I'm not... That's weird, but I don't understand anything of anything.

No, no, I agree. That's fucked. But it's a funny... We're not huge companies or making so much money on allowing minimum wage people to get together and... Yeah, have rights. Push back a little bit. Yeah. It's weird. Which I know it's going to piss off 50% of our audience.

I mean, that's the same reason why, Jess, you arrived at the gates of America and said, I'm here for six weeks and they said, how is that possible? Yeah. How dare you? And I said, what? He said, never mind. So, yeah, I know there's a lot of union busting thugs who listen, 50% of their audience. I apologize to them, but yeah. We mean, no disrespect.

You're proudly calling yourself a thug. Yeah. Maybe you're the bad guy. Union busting thug life. Anyway, I'm trying to end on a slightly nicer note. That's right, but possibly a little bit bleak of. Well, it's, well, I mean, yeah, but also not. Anyway, so since the great Chicago fire of 1871 destroyed many of the unpublished records of Pinkerton Detective Agency,

there's little of Kate Warn's life that's known. Like we don't really know much. Luckily, Alan Pinkerton was a prolific writer. He wrote extensively about the cases his agency worked on and he spoke very highly and frequently of Kate. She was one of his best detectives. She led many other women detectives in their training and in work. He made her the head of like the,

they had like a female detective branch of Pinkerton and she was the head of that. So when Kate passed away, likely from pneumonia, at the age of 35, Pinkerton had her buried in his family plot. Wow. Which I thought was quite nice. He wanted her burial plot to be undisturbed, so he took care of the issue in his will, and her burial plot could never be sold.

An obituary in the Democratic Inquire in MacArthur, Ohio, described her as a marked woman amongst her sex who had great mental power and was an excellent judge of character and called her the best female detective in America, if not the world. I thought that was kind of nice because Kate seems pretty badass and it's a nicer ending than they snuck into Starbucks

to try and stop work because unionising. Yes, I think Kate was from the golden age of Pinkerton's. Totally. And yeah, a part of me was like, maybe I'll save some of this and do a whole report on it,

but there's just not a lot of information. Because a lot of the records were lost. Yeah, and there wasn't much about her early life that was known. Any relation to the chic of tweak? I can only assume. It's felt the same. Yep.

So, yeah, I can safely assume yes. That's, yeah, so probably, probably the second best warn we've talked about on the show. I believe so, yes. Wow, top two worns. But I thought that was kind of nice that because she joined the agency as a very young widow. And I don't, like, didn't have children. He was sort of like, you'd be buried in my family. That's nice.

Getting things done. Whittowing at 23? Yeah. Some people really put the rest of us to shame. Achieve, achieve, achieve. Yeah, yeah. I'm hearing stories like that and you're like, by 23, you've got married and widowed.

Incredible. I wonder how, because he died and then his sons took it over and it seemed to have become a completely different thing, how Alan Pinkerton would have seen where it all went and been like, whoa, what? I just started out making barrels and I saw some people in the forest doing something I thought was a bit dodgy. A bit wild, isn't it? And then this happened? I don't think he, I think he was a bit anti-union.

but so who knows how he would have thought about how the business turned out, but pretty crazy to have started out of, yeah, him just finding some counterfeiters. I think you're right in saying that the whole union thing is complex, but I feel like there's a role to be played perhaps. And I know people come to this show to find out what they should think about such things. Yeah, yeah. And I think...

And they come to this show for three fence sitters. Absolutely. I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm not sitting on the fence. So what are you saying? What? There's no podcasting union, but if there was one... I'd probably be in it.

Okay. Why isn't... Let's start one. Oh my God. Finally, we can have some rights. We would take it to our bosses, us. But there you go. Kicking off Block 24, the number nine Pinkerton Detective Agency.

That is so fascinating. And like Matt said, like he's forest gumping his way, all those famous stops and he's meeting these famous people and going out. after these like very famous outlaws. Yeah, and there's even more. Like I said, those were sort of, I was like, this is, this is a huge topic of, and some bits of information there was just like,

oh, there's a couple of paragraphs about this. And so there's, it was hard to like narrow it down. And that's why I really appreciate the people who suggested it, talking about some of their favorite parts in their pitch. Because it's like a century old organization. That's the hardest thing. But it's also like, Dave and I are sitting in the other side of things.

We didn't know anything about it. So we don't know the things have been left out. And it was just, it was an amazing story. Yeah, that felt like a greatest hits. Wow. Which we appreciate it. Huge. Greatest hits with the greatest bits.

What? Of the story. I didn't mean like your giblets or anything. Greatest hits with the greatest tits. Oh, tits. Oh, Tits. Perfect. Okay.

Perfect Perkins. Greatest bits with the greatest tits. A memoir. A memoir. Well, that brings us to everyone's favorite section of the show where we spend a little time. Thank you. and appreciating our fantastic supporters. If you want to become one of them,

go to patreon.com slash dogo on pod. And yeah, you can get all sorts of stuff once you're involved there. Can I test your memory, Jess? Do you remember what kind of things you can get involved on our Patreon? Let's throw it over to Dave. Okay, what I would have buzzed in with, Jess.

Do you remember we do now four bonus episodes a month? Oh, yeah. Basically one every week. Every Sunday new episode comes out. We do reports. We do quizzes. We've got the Dugon. movie club these days. We're watching fun movies. And we've got the Do Go On D&D series, a new

episode every month in our brand new campaign with Adam Kandvalay. Also, you get to hear about live shows before anyone else, get discounts, you get to be in the Facebook group, you get to vote for topics, you get to suggest block topics. Something that the patrons are going to be doing if they're coming to the live show on one day on the weekend. I'm giving him a tour of Stupid Old Studios. That's a... They're the kind of little fun things that we do in the Patreon group. Yeah. Just becomes a lot of a community thing.

Yeah, there's a heaps of things. And we don't even organise a lot of them. Our group Mother, Sophie Tudor, she puts together some swaps. We've done like t-shirt swaps. Snacks. Snacks. Key-ring magnet swaps, I think, was one. None of this is ringing a bell.

You remember patreon.com? I fit away for a while. Yeah. And we do page-up. Whenever I'm traveling around, I'll do a Patreon catch-up and different bars and stuff. had so much fun, been led astray by patrons around the world. It's nice. But the first thing we normally do in this section of the show is a thing called

fact quote or question for people who are signed up on the Cindy Shideberg level or above. And I think this actually has a jingle go, something like this. Fact quote or question. He always remembers the ding. She always remembers the sing. And he said Cindy, right? Yeah, the Sydney, Shiremberg. Was that, what, was that Sydney's sister?

Cindy Shainberg. Oh, no, when he was undercover in a wheelchair. He was my sister, Cindy Scheinberg. Hey, I'm Cindy. Yeah, that's her. Hey. All right, so we got four facts, quotes or questions to go through today. Or brags or suggestions, really whatever they want to give us.

They also get to give themselves a title. First up, regular fat quote or question. It's Nathan Damon. The man behind the wheel of the big rig. He drives the road trains. Yeah. So big. So big.

Crazy. And his title is group. Jess, would it kill you to call your old man every so often? And, uh, wow, Nathan Damon, where you get to put down fat quote or question, brag or suggestion or really, whatever you like. He's the first one to put down Gary Jay. That's nice. So this is our first ever Gary Jay. So I don't even know what that means, but let's find out.

Hey guys, it's once again time to hear from our old mate Gary Jay from the UK. Take it away, Gary. I think Gary, I think it's because he had a kid. He's dropped down a few levels, and I guess. Which we support and are absolutely fine with. As we've always said, what did you say, Dave? Only what you can reasonably afford. Yeah, pledge, only what you can reasonably afford, please.

We're going to keep doing the episodes for free, these episodes for free. They'll always be there for you. Well, don't say always. Well, not all. I might change. Yeah. We might hit billionaire status and then I'll just be like, fuck up. And we're like, put it all by the firewall.

We better take this off. Yeah, people's AI is getting really good. But yeah. So I think that's why Gary Jay is speaking through the medium of Nathan Damon. So anyway, this is from Gary Jay. This is a quote. Okay, so I've had the best year being a stay at home parent with our little girl. During that time, I got my first ever 100 playing cricket.

And that's just little break. Staying at home, you did that. That must be hard. That's wild. From the couch. Me and Nat He's talking about playing like Shane Warner Cricket 99

on PlayStation 1 Great work Me and Nat have loved being parents and now I'm delighted to say we should be welcoming our little girl's birth sibling in September Oh, congratulations

must have already happened unless you're talking about next year which would mean a pretty long gestation period They've got plans in three months time Can I know? Do they have a really long gestation? Yeah, very long.

Thank you. Gary and Nat, congratulations. Huge, congrats. Jess is a beautiful name. Ooh. And do you for a comeback. You should be at the front of that. Jesse James.

Oh, my God. Oh, no. Anyway, so I'll be having more time at home looking after another child and try to keep the house respectable. After telling the pod about the adoption last time, I got so many private messages of other patrons congratulating me and telling me about their stories of adoption, which showed me how common it is. I love the pod community and thank you for Mr Nathan Damon, group dad, for letting me waffle on about me and mine for a bit. Tata for now and see you in November. Can't wait to see you, Gary Jay. Can't wait to see you Gary Jay.

Gary Jay in the flesh. Because we're doing a Birmingham show. Gary Jay in the UK. Yes. What a treat. Is Birmingham it might be the only show with tickets left available? Or maybe there's still some for London? I don't know.

Some tickets in London, I believe. But they'll be able to find out if you just check the old web. Possibly also, Belfast. Oh my God. Can't wait to go to Belfast. And one last thing from a group dad before he goes. I'd like to send out a huge congratulations to fellow Perth patron Tamara Felsinger on the release of a new book, Blood and Stone, published under her author name Tamara M. Bailey.

A huge achievement. I presume Dave is bringing back book cheat just to cover it. Well, I'd better go. That truck won't drive itself yet. Oh, what? Thank you for giving us these great news about Petron supporters. What's so lovely. Yes, Nathan Damon, just a mere conduit.

Yeah, that's lovely. Beautiful used. Blood and Stone, love it. Next one comes from Dave Loring, who I believe Jess calls, what did you call him? The only man you'd trust to lift you over his head. I'd say that privately. Oh, okay. Well, forget I said anything.

Anyway, Dave's got the title of Recovered Movie By. on the brink of relapsing and relapsing. Dave's offering a fact writing, Hey, mate, so bring you a fact that's more of an anecdote than anything. Okay. You could have written anecdote. That's a possible subgenre you could use. Yeah, I guess so.

So no pressure. But I presume that it's up to the same determination level of fun facts. First, little context, mainly for international listeners. Movies, TV shows and some publications have a legal requirement to be classified before they can be sold slash distributed. slash exhibited in Australia. We have five classifications. G, PG.

Jess, tell us, G, four. General. PG. Parental guidance. M. Mature audiences. M.A. 15 plus. As it is described, 15 plus.

Yeah, you just have to be, I think. Or an R18 plus. Restricted. Nauty. The first three are only advisory categories. The latter two are legally restricted to their age groups. Anything that the classification board, assessors that exceeds what's allowed in an R18 plus category gets refused classification.

If you want to be super technical and split some very annoying hairs, we don't technically ban movies, we just refuse to classify them, making it illegal to sell, distribute or exhibit the movie in this country. So, well, I thought there was like a, is there not an X rating? No. Yeah, that's, that's for, that's for porn. Yeah, so is that illegal to be sold in Australia then? Or is Dave just talking out his ass?

Anyway, so in 2003, Australia slapped the movie Ken Park with the refused classification. Film critic extraordinaire Margaret Pomerantz held a public screening of the movie at the Balmain Town Hall in protests of what she and many others felt was governmental overreach. The event was pretty public and as such the police turned up to put a stop to it and to seize the offending material. Isn't that wild? Imagine being a cop and that's what you sent out. out to do that day. Like, go get that DVD. Yeah.

And you'd be like, what the fuck am I doing? That credited Margaret Pomerant. Yeah, like there's actual people I could really be helping and this is what I'm doing. It sounds like a job for the latter day Pinkerton's really. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we'll go. We'll bash the shit out of if you want us to. No, no, it's like I just get the DVD and punch the old lady.

Don't and done. Well, pommarants. Right as the movie started, police made their way on stage at the venue and began. negotiating with Pomerantz about how exactly they were going to arrest her. As would later come out, none of them particularly wanted to detain her, and were there only because it was objectively an event being held to contravene a law in the country. So yeah, exactly, you're saying, they're like, don't make us do this. We hate this, Margaret.

We're so sorry about this. Actually, big, big, big fan. You're a national treasure. Is David nice in real life? No, from what I've heard. Anyway, allegedly, right as the, I think they're the yin and yang, right? Of course. Josh Elle tells the story about him being a prictum.

Oh, right. There you go. I'm just looking at the Ken Parks movie now. Do you want to tell me, I'll tell you who's on the soundtrack? Sure. On the soundtrack? On the soundtrack? Okay.

Well, this gives a clue as to why it's been banned? Well, no, I just think that you might like this. It's got rancid, bouncing souls. Oh, my God. The roots and the final track. The shags and their track. Holy shit. Who are parents?

Oh, my God. God, amazing. Now I know what it's banned, though. Who are parents? I was going to say, I've seen all those bands, but I have not seen the shags. Unfortunately not. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I've seen the roots. At least on Jimmy Fallon. Yeah, that's something.

I feel like I saw him when I was in America, but maybe not. While these negotiations were happening, someone in the crowd decided that they could still get one last protest move in, so they turned the projector, which was still running, away from the stage and under the wall of the town hall, making the picture even bigger and attracting much applause. and cheers from the gathered crowd. The police not happy with this turn of events went for the simplest option to put a stop to proceeding and cut proceedings and cut the power to the town hall.

A great tactic to stop the screening, but it then meant they couldn't eject the DVD from the player and therefore couldn't seize the material that were there to seize. Side note, I learnt this and many other things aside in an excellent book about film censorship in Australia called Book of the Band by Simon Murado, It's a very funny and very informative book that any other movie buffs, recovering or otherwise, should check out. And yes, that's right.

This fact was also a suggestion all along. What a twist. Big strong hugs to you all, stay safe and well. Just be gentle with those hugs, please. You don't know your own strength, Dave. That was really entertaining. That was a mini report. Loved it.

I kind of wish you didn't burn it there, Dave. I would love to have done that as a bonus episode. Leave a bit of sizzle. Come on, Dave. Next one comes from Tess Chilcott, okay, mother of a dragon, at least born in the year of the dragon. Oh my God. And this is a brag. Tess writes, I would like to brag that I finally had my daughter, Margaret Lewis, or Lois, I think, and Margaret.

I've said, there are two names and I said them both wrong. Is it Margo? It's Margot Lois. And I said Margaret Lewis. I'm so sorry. What an announcement. I should say that I don't read these out until I read them out. You went to correct yourself and called it Margut.

Oh no, it's Margaret. If it wasn't for Robbie, I would never, I've never heard the name Margot before. I love the name Margo, isn't it? It's really good, strong name. Yeah. But get rid of the tea, you know. But then I probably would have said Marjo. I would like to finally brag.

I would like to brag that I finally had my daughter, Margo Lois. Great name. 39 weeks and four days. She was born on the 30th. July, it was dramatic, slightly traumatic, a birthing tale that ended in pre-eclampsia. Pre-eclampsia and an emergency C-section. But we are all and just both of us well. Margot is quite possibly the cutest little red-headed Bubba girl in the world.

Her daddy and I love her so much and it's actually hard to put in words. Thanks to everyone for getting me through my pregnancy. I needed a lot of laughs. Holy shit, congratulations. So great to hear. Congratulations. And to this world. Baby Margo.

Oh my God. So cute. Adorable. So good. Oh, congrats. That's massive. Awesome. Margaret Lewis.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. Margaret. Lois. Or is it Margot? Margaret Louis. Is it a signet? I know sometimes these words have a sign letter. Yeah, yeah.

Last one comes from Charlie. Haber or Habert, okay, amateur etymologist with a suggestion. Charlie writes, the word eke survives today only in the phrase to eke something out. Eek not eat, but it used to be a much more common word in old English. The ancient version of English spoken between roughly 500 and 1,500 AD. In these times, eke meant an increase a little bit more, as well as being used where today we would say also. Oh, so you'd sort of say, well, a couple of things.

You know, I wasn't really sure if I was going to be available on that weekend. Eek! The last time I caught up with Johnny was really weird. Eek! Or like for like a thing you're like, do you want source of that? Just an eke. Yes. That would work?

A little bit more. A little bit more. Yeah. I think so. And increase a little bit more. Eke more. Eke. Eke.

Eke. Can I grab a skinny flat white. I'll grab a muffin as well. Eke with eke of milk. That's all. Back then I meant everything. Eek, eke, eke, eke. And they understood.

Oh, eke. God, we've really, we've gone backwards, haven't we? Yeah. All these words we need now. It's too complicated now. Old English, like it's German and Scandinavian cousins, also made frequent use of words, word compounds. For example, if two people in the same village had the same first name,

another name would be needed to differentiate them. This was called an eke name. In old English pronunciation, this rhymes with meek llama. Okay, so, uh, what llama, na, nama? Oh, eke nama. That's fun. Uh, literally an also name. That's what originally, um, in my town, there was someone called Dave Worn.

Oh, my God. Oh my God. That makes sense. Is that where, is that what the Eke and Warnocky came from? Yeah. Holy shit. They won eke. As centuries past, the word eke fell out of use for one reason or another,

but eke naame stuck around. Since folks didn't recognize the first part anymore, people started mishearing the phrase, and Iq namet as nikname, and so the word became nickname, and another few centuries of sound changes, and that's how we got the word nickname. No!

So your nickname is literally your also name. Wow, your eke name. Oh, my. Is your nickname? Oh, that's good stuff. And we are taking this all at face value, I should say. Of course, I'm not verifying this. I've not read this out before.

Yeah. We're taking, it's possible that we're being taken for a ride here. Wow. But I doubt it. No, that sounds so real. The process of mistaking where one word ends and another begins is called re-bracketing. And it's not uncommon in many languages. It's also how we got apron from napron, auger from Norga.

All right, now this sounds made up. And orange from Naurange. Orga from Norga. You know, the word you use all the time, auger. I might be saying it wrong. Now, please decide. Do you mean ogre? A-U-R.

That's auger, isn't it? I can't see how it would be anything else. Now please decide amongst yourself whether this fact falls on the fun, dull, grim spectrum. It's not grim. It's pretty fun. It's not dull. when the nickname reveal came in. Yeah, the nickname reveal was exciting.

They kicked at home for me. There were two great mini reports here that were burnt. Yeah. And I loved them both. Thank you so much to Charlie. Well, that's how big block is. We have mini topics within the big topic. That's crazy.

Charlie Tess, Dave and Nathan, all fantastic. So we had two fun mini reports and two huge announcements. One baby incoming. One baby already here. Yeah. With the beautiful name, Margot Louise. Our next thing we like to do is shout out to a few of our other fantastic Patreon supporters. Jess only comes up with a game based on the topic at hand.

True, I do. And I can't think of anything for today. A use of a thug. If they've got a... Yeah, it's what they've hired Pinkerton for. Yeah, thugs for hire. Yeah, fantastic. All right.

God, you're good. Yeah. I don't tell you that enough. I tend to be a bit of a dick to you. Yeah, you're really mean. Yeah. I have a lot of issues, because... of how you treat.

Yeah. And it's nice to finally be able to say that out loud to someone who's not my... And I treat you that way because of a lot of issues you have. Sort of a vicious cycle. Yeah, yeah. It's vicious. Because you're awful. And so then I treat you awfully.

And I become more awful. Exactly. Now, how do we want to set this up? Explain to me again what we're doing. You read the names. Okay. And we're thanking these great Patreon supporters. And then I'm going to give a scenario and Jess is going to tell us how thugs

would be useful in that scenario. Yeah, yeah. So this is like what these people are hiring Pinkerton Thugs for. Gotcha. So you give us the name, Dave. I'll give the scenario. Jess is saying how the thugs will be utilized. Perfect.

All right. I would like to thank first cab off the rank from Eltona here in Victoria. It's Kate Skelton. Kate Skelton. Okay. So the event Kate is calling Pinkerton in for is her graduation. Oh, like a party? or just the graduation?

Well, the graduation. So it's the event, depending on Kate's age, just finishing uni or high school or second uni. Great, I've got it. I've got it. So, Kate, you know how sometimes graduation videos will go viral for various reasons? Kate wanted to go viral. So she's hired one of the Pinkerton agents to tackle her as she goes up to accept her

diploma. That's a great use of Pinkerton. And it's going to get a couple hundred thousand beers. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Minimum. That's getting on the news. That's going on the project for sure.

Oh, for sure. Check out this wild graduation over an Eltona. Yep. Thank you, Kate. I'd love to think from Bellevue in... Nebraska? Nebraska. That's a total guess.

No, I think you're bang on. A touchdown from Jess, and thank you to Nicholas Guy Hall. Great name. Triple barrel. Nicholas Guy Hall is calling up Pinkerton for the BNS Ball. which they might not have in Nebraska, but they're trying to do a bit of Australian culture over it, which I think is, you know, over there.

And the B&S ball is... Bachelors and spinsters. Ah, yes, it says like a singles night type of thing. And the country, yeah. So you're supposed to go to hook up? Or find love? I think people just get blotto. Yeah.

Go there and get wasted. I love our culture. I love our culture. I hope some habs on the dance floor. So obviously the Pinkerton's have been employed as, as security. Oh, yeah. As door bitches. Yeah.

And to man the cloak room. Yeah. Make sure everyone's rolled onto their side when they're spewing on themselves. That's right. Carry out anybody who gets into a fight and then beat the shit out of them outside. They say, no fighting. No, come on. That's enough.

And then they just pound them. But not in a fun, sexy way. No. With their fists. Unless they ask them really nicely way. I'd like to think now from Manchester A place we'll be next month Live at the Frog and Bucket

Thank you to Which is such a great name for a comedy club Farrell Well Farrell is as called in Pinkerton Because he is getting his tax Tax is done Hasn't done him for a few years

So he's got a meeting with the accountant And has asked Pinkerton to go in with him How come? Intimidation Yeah yeah yeah to intimidate the accountant into doing some tax fraud. And it's going to work. Pinkton is scary.

Yeah, yeah. They are armed to the tooth. Yeah. He's going to say stuff like, I don't think you need to carry that too. Oh, okay. Yeah, so that very scary stuff. I don't know if that two needs carrying actually. Yeah.

Farrell. You're wild. Farrell, great work. Love it. I would like to think now from, sorry I went silent for a second there because I'm looking at this person is from China and then the city and state that comes up is not in English letters.

The state looks like, it looks like Mandarin letters to me from going back to my grade five and six education. Wow, but I've looked it up. They are from Chengdu in the Sichuan province. Nice. Which I've been to where they have the world famous Chengdu Research Panda Center.

I thought you're going to talk about the Sichuan source. No, no. They've got more. pandas there in one place than anywhere else in the world, which is very, very cool. And I've met a panda there. And I got to... Okay, is this about you or is this about... Because I remember that first letter of the state, we used to say, look like a pair of jocks

when we were kids. Oh, and that's a number? But I thought it was, but I might be wrong. It was literally centuries ago. A pair of jocks. It was literally last century. I love our country. Look like a pair of jocks.

And supporting us all the way from China, thank you to Cole Maravilla. And Cole Maravilla has invited Pinkerton to the unveiling of a new panda baby. Yo! To intimidate that panda baby. Do what you're told. Breed. That's amazing. Maybe she's breeding, don't they?

Oh, big time. They, I think it's a very limited window and they are not DTF a lot of the time. Okay, okay. I get it. Again. The situation, like the scenario has to be just right. Exactly. The music, the lighting.

It's for the number four. E.R. San Su. I think it is. Looks like Dax. Looks like Dax. It's like a pair of Dax. Yeah. I can see the Dax for S.

Is that the same? Awesome. I mean, yeah. I wouldn't be going in saying, no, no, correcting Chinese people. No, no, no, no, my mate, Matt, he said it's S. He said it's Dax. But we don't have many Patreon supporters in China, so thank you so. Cole, awesome, happy listening.

So good. Looks like a pair of jocks. That's funny. I'd like to thank now from East Brisbane, back home in Queensland or in Australia. Thank you to Holly Champlain. Holly Champlain. Holly Champlin. Go ahead.

I've had B&S now. We're having the BNF. So they've invited Pinkerton along to the annual B&F for the local football and netball club in the town of East Brisbane. And B and F is... Best and Farest. Best and Ferex. B and F.

Yeah, great, great, go. Not BNF. I thought you would just take in the sea out of boat in camping fishing, but okay. BCF and fun. They brought in Pinkerton, obviously, to tally up all the scores. They were also known for maths. Oh, yeah. Ah, yes, three votes, etc.

Because, like, the brownlow, they'll get in, like, one of the big four accounting firms to do it. Yeah. But in East Brisbane, they get a thug agency. That's right. Yeah. To intimidate the votes. Yeah. Make sure that there's no mistakes. Yeah, that's great.

I think Holly would be really happy with the results. And those results be whatever she asked them to be. Who do you want to win, Holly? Holly has rigged it. Just right here who you want to win and we'll put it on the form. Three votes? Holly Champlin. She didn't even play.

She didn't even play this year. She did her ACL. And she's won the best in versus in both football and netball. Big year. Didn't play either. No one's on the double since. Holly did it all. last year.

Thanks, Holly. I'd like to thank now from Toronto over in Canada. Thank you to Kendra. Kendra. Okay. Has invited Toronto. Dave and I recently, it's not quite the same, but Dave and I recently did a,

we're starting to do some corporate trivias. And we did a corporate trivia for a great listener who runs a, an accounting firm in Alaska. Very cool. Which is vaguely near Canada. But anyway. I mean, They're a lot closer than we are.

Yeah, I mean, they are on the other side of Canada, I believe. Katie who ran it. Katie who ran it, though, was telling us that rutting season for moose is coming to an end. Have you heard that before? Rutting season, Jess. Sure. New term for us, but we loved it. But anyway, Kendra has invited you over for, like, not in Toronto, obviously, out into the, into nature.

Yeah. But Kendra wants to bring a small team of Pinkerton experts for rutting season. What are the Pinkerton's going to be doing there during rutting season outside of Toronto, Canada? That's where they bang. I understand, Dave. You looked a little confused. Well, I'm looking at you like it's obvious because it is. Well, obviously, we want to give them some privacy.

Privacy sheets. Oh. That's what you're thinking, holding up sheets. I just think they're just keeping people away. Yeah. In general. How are they doing that? Intimidation.

Yeah. Beating the shit out of them. Yeah. There's bushwalkers coming through. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing here? Oh, just going a beautiful walk up. Bashin an old lady.

That's what the Pinkinans do. Hey, for the right price. And a beautiful use of their forces. Their resources. Forces and resources. And a little plucky if you want us to do a corporate trivia for you or your company, we can do it online anywhere in the world. Oh, you're buck.

We did a, wanted a live and a Melbourne Bucks party. That was super fun. Hey, if you wanted to pay for our flights and accommodation, we'd do it anywhere in the world. Basically, we will ask questions in any circumstances. Yeah. We're pretty sure we're going to Katie's accounting firm's Christmas party. Christmas party and they're on your golf day in Alaska. Awesome.

Oh, by the way, just we might be moving to Alaska. Great. See you. Very cool. I'd like to thank now from Hamlin Terrace, another place we would happily do a trivia if we're invited. From New South Wales, it's Kaya Elliott. Kaya Elliott. Kaya's getting married.

I don't know if Kaya knows that or not, but Kaya has invited Pinkerton to the nuptials. Love that. Just to feed, seat fillers. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Not as many RASVs as they would have loved. Kaya's spouse, their side's looking a little empty.

So just out of kindness, just out of kindness, Kaya's invited some rent-a-crap. And their spouse is like, it's funny, I don't recognize that many on my heart. Yeah, long-lost relatives. Yeah, friends from high school, they look different. They look different. They look pretty fuggish. But what a beautiful day it is.

Very thuggy family. Stop looking out to the crowd, looking to my eyes. It's all about what's up here. With the bride or groom or pinkertons. That's what they're getting else. Yeah, that's right. All right. Oh, no, Dave's doing that bit.

Oh, we can swap if you like, do you want to do the last two? Yeah, I'd love to do. Because I was running out. Weddings. I don't know. I'm struggling. You are. I'm struggling.

I'd love to thank our second Nebraska for the week. I'd love to thank from Omaha, Nebraska, in the United States, Orasul. Orasul. Dave, I'm actually going to give you the scenarios and you're going to decide. Whoa. Whoa. I feel like I've been thugged. If anybody's going to thug you here.

It is me. And I'm not proud of that. No, but you are the fuck. But it is the truth. Thank you for thugging me. Oura has invited just two Pinkertons to accompany them to a job interview. Oh, a job interview. Okay, sort of standing menacingly behind Aura.

At first, nodding like... With a menacing aura. Yes, but they're nodding like, don't you think that they're very accomplished? It sounds great. Yes, their biggest negative is that they're always too punctual. Sort of like hired two yes men. Yeah. And at the end, if it didn't seem to go well, they just sort of start...

Sort of punching their open palm. Yeah, yeah. To be like, obviously, I can hurt you if Aura doesn't get this job. Yeah, yeah. But of course, you will. Because how well have she done here? Exactly. And also just as like in-person references.

No need to call her references. I can give you a reference right now. I've worked with Aurora for 35 years. She's great. Orra's only 23. 35 years. Where does she sign? Oh, you're only paying that much.

I'd double it. Double it again. If you know what's good for you. World's first $400,000 a year earning intern. Yeah. Yeah. And finally, someone who maybe will be seeing soon from Leeds, Leeds, Leeds.

Oh, I can't wait to get back to Leeds. WICOM? No, it's probably not. But anyway, in Great Britain, please and thank you, Jessica Gray. Jessica Gray is actually bringing some of the Pinkerton's to our live Dugger On Show in Leeds. Whoa. Seat-fills.

I think that one's sold out, so, but they can stand as a bar. What they're doing is they're ferrying, because the crowd's quite full. We've been to this venue before, the High Five Club. It's quite packed in there when it gets sold out. But there is the Pyre Ministers. to next door. So we need big thugs to carry the pies that we order through the crowd. Yeah.

Back to us in the backstage room in the green room. That's why Jessica's got them. Oh, Jessica's with us backstage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're having a private pie. Or she's just given it just out of the goodness. Out of kindness. It's a gift.

That's really nice. Jessica, that means a lot. Because we love Pie Minister. We love it. Yes, pie minister is something we would often say. Yeah. Can't wait to get another Catherine of Aragon pie. Oh my God.

Wow. And me, I can't remember the name of it, but it was like Kevin, I think, or Keith. The Kevin! Yeah. Okay, I do remember the name of it. I don't remember. Maybe it was the same one? No, but there were multiple vegetarian ones.

There was one with red wine. Maybe that was the Kevin? Was it a red wine, Zhu? No. I don't think so. Anyway, I'd love to thank. Once again, Jessica, Orica, Ira, K, Kendra, Holly Cole. How many K's have we got, Farrell, Nicholas, another K-KK.

That is pretty good. What a dream team. What a dream team. indeed. And the last thing we need to do is welcome a few people into the Triptitch Club. Dave is so good at explaining what this means. This is our Hall of Fame where people that have been supporting the show on the shoutout level or above for three consecutive years, we induct them in. We welcome them in to our clubhouse, our theatre of the mind, hangout zone, friend zone, lover zone, whatever you want it to be.

And there's fun, there's games, there's stories to tell. Really? Friend zone's got such an unnecessarily negative connotation. What a great place to be in. I'd love to be in the zone with my friends for all eternity. Friends zone sounds fantastic. Because my dream you can never leave, but why would you want to? And we always... But I'm horny for my friend and they don't feel horny back.

That sounds awesome. You know, build it up, mate. Build it up and let that love go to someone who wants it. Perfectly sad. Lovely. Jess has kept me in the Friends Zone for a lot. Build it up, mate. I'm building.

Let it go to somebody else. So Dave normally books a band. Jess is behind the bar. So good to have you back behind the bar, Jess. Yeah. It's pink lemonade this week. Oh, fantastic. Do you do hard and soft?

What? No, yeah. What do you put in the hard? Is there a pink vodka or something? Yeah. Yeah, they'd be pink vodka. But also, like the lemonade's pink and vodka is clear. So it doesn't have to be a pink vodka.

You know the Meredith Music Festival's pink flamingo? Yeah. That's a grapefruit softy. Yep. With vodka. Yep. But yours is totally different. Mine's pink lemonade, which is different.

It's very refreshing. Very nice. Dave, have you booked a man? You're never going to believe it. What? I've been courting this superstar for so, so long. Very hard to get in Australia because they sell out millions of shows. But we've got an exclusive acoustic set from pink.

Oh my God. Wait, acoustics are none of the aerial shit? Still aerial. Oh, fuck yeah. But underneath this is just ding, dig. Like it. As long as she's doing flips, I'm happy. Yeah, heaps of flips in our quite small club. Which song of hers is that one?

Ding, diga, ding, ding, ding, ding. Yeah, that's off the new album. I probably shouldn't have, but she, obviously, she played it to me. I made, I make all the acts audition. Is she doing an acoustic cover of Hart's barracuda? Yes. Ding da, da, ding da ding da ding. If somebody was going to do a great cover of that song, I would believe Pink could do it. Yeah, yeah.

Pink could. I thought, honestly thought what I started, I could do a better impression of an acoustic guitar drumming that I actually could. Yeah, I think that sounded like it was plugged in. Anyway, we got five inductees this week. Is that all we need to do before we get in there? Absolutely. I'm sitting on the door.

I've got the guest list on my clipboard. I'm about to lift the velvet rope. If you hear your name, Joel gone in and Dave's standing on the stage, ready to hype you up with some weak wordplay based on your name or your town of residents. Jess will hype Dave up because he feels a bit bad because he's not that good at this. First up, what the fuck? What the hell? Thank God.

to defend me. Oh my God. What's it been like for six weeks? Well, I don't miss this. A lot of cowering in the corner. A lot of crying for me. Oh, oh, I don't miss this one bit. I miss this at all.

All right, so five names. If you hear a name, head on in. Here we go. From Chicago, the Windy City, Illinois. It's Cop of the Coyote. Cop this. And then they run in. Like, it's like, cop this.

Oh, yeah, kick the door down. I think I've learned recently that maybe Americans say coyote, not coyote. Is that right? What? Or no. No, it's called coyote. ugly. Yeah.

It's not Coyote Ugly. Yeah. If it is, my whole childhood was a lie. Okay. Did you go to Coyote Ugly in Vegas? No. No. From Miriam in Kansas in the United States, it's Jen Agina or Jen Agina.

Put them on the agenda. It's Jen out of Jen. Whoa. Well, that's good. You've gotten good since last week. From Kent. You're a bad liar. In God's country, Ohio.

That's three in a row from the United States. It's Shannon Burns. Oh my God, my eyes. They burn with love for Shannon Burns. Could that be Shannon Burns? Oh, my God. Right on the golden mile in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Right across from God's Country, Ohio in the United States, it's Alex Spore.

More like Alex score. Woo! Touchdown! Yeah. And finally from Halifax in Great Britain, it's Becky Harrison Hello fact Becky is a great person

Yeah Becky Okay yep Hello facts Hello facts Hello facts Hello facts Hello facts Yeah yeah

I think it was the emphasis He put the emphasis in the wrong spot But he's not perfect Hello Fans Welcome to the club Make yourselves at home Since Jess is gone

We now do have two full-time Ice hockey tables So please Enjoy the I tried to stop this Becky Alex Shannon Jen and copper.

Sorry, is that like one for everybody else and then I still have one? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's actually a good system. That's a better compromise. But it is no longer an air hockey table. Oh, it's ice hockey now. Yeah, but you've got one to yourself.

He froze it up. I'm going to say to yourself, I mean, we can still use it. But you can also to yourself. I'm going to fucking kill you. What do you mean? I'll have to order a new one, a third table, just for you. Yeah, since you're gone, I made sure the ice was unmeltable. It's awful.

Well, I thought you really liked that. I think you'd be so excited. What? I can't deal with you right now. I'm so confused. I'm so confused. I did it for you. No.

Oh. Just Dave. Look, I'll just tell the listeners a couple of things and then I need to get out of here. Okay. Okay. But we would normally really start chatting from here. This is the best bit of the show. No, absolutely not.

I'm really mad at you. I'm so sorry. Anybody can suggest a topic. Yeah, I'm really upset. You used to be unflappable. Now I'm... Now you're flapping all over the joint. I'm very flappable now.

If you would like to suggest a topic, you may. There's a link in the show notes. It's also on our website, which is dogoonpod.com. And you can find us at Do Go On Pod across all social media. Do Go On Podcast on TikTok, where we are really taken off. We're huge on there. We're massive on there. There'll be a video from this episode.

You'll be able to see me wearing my brand new shirt. Yeah. Stay weird, Austin. I think it says. Critical stuff. I can't really read it from on me, but I think it says, stay weird, Austin. Something like that. Yeah, with that sort of emphasis.

And buses. Anyway, Dave, boot this baby home. We'll be back next week with another fantastic episode, number eight in the Blockbuster Toba countdown. But if you want to see us before, then, of course, get tickets to the live stream this weekend, Saturday and Sunday for two separate episodes

with Who Knewett and Book Cheat as well. Do go on Pod.com for all those tickets as well. But until then, thank you so much for listening, and until next time, goodbye. Later. Bye! Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world do you are.

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