Do Go On - 492 - The New York Zodiac Killer

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

At the scene of a New York City shooting in 1990, an eerie note was found by the victim that simply read "Zodiac - Time to die!" This week we are joined by friend of the show Rhys Nicholson to hear the story of the New York Zodiac Killer!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 7.24 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).For all our important links: https://linktr.ee/dogoonpod Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present. REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:Netflix’s Catching Killers Night Terror: New York Zodiachttps://www.insideedition.com/how-astrology-inspired-the-new-york-zodiac-killer-and-proved-to-be-part-of-his-undoing-88230https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/zodiac-killer-new-york-caught-b2368470.htmlhttps://www.thetruecrimedatabase.com/case_file/heriberto-seda/https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/20/nyregion/trail-zodiac-overview-police-say-zodiac-suspect-admits-attacks-that-killed-3.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/09/nyregion/in-the-zodiac-case-still-more-riddles-than-clues.htmlhttps://www.crimelibrary.org/serial_killers/weird/seda/index_1.htmlhttps://www.forensicfilesfiles.com/new-york-zodiac-killer-heriberto-eddie-seda.php Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well, Matt, the 2025 Melbourne International Comedy Festival is upon us. I'm so excited, Dave, you and I doing our shows, Bad Boy and Dave Warnocky, dates the audience. The entire audience. It's not just anyone, it's the entire audience. Everyone gets a go. Oh, that is so exciting. You're at the improv conspiracy arm at Spleen, both in the CBD. That's very close to each other.

That's the Paris end. Oh, yeah. A beautiful end. Beautiful. And we the Paris end. Oh, yeah. A beautiful end. Beautiful. And we're also doing. That's right. Do go on the quiz show late live one night only at the Festival Club at Max Watts. That's Wednesday, April 2nd at 11 p.m. Yes, that's school night, but it's going to be worth it because we've got two great guests,

two fan favorites of the pod, Cameron James and Lizzie who joining us. I'm so excited. What a combo. This is going to be a powerful festival. It's going to be feel that going to be so, so good. And if you want tickets to any of those shows, go to comedy festival

dot com dot au or do go on pod dot com. Boo. Yeah. That's when you catch something about you working on that. Yeah. out. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnocky and as always, I'm here with Matt Stewart.

Hello, Matt. Hello, Dave. Hello. So the new interview format. I'm joining us to join the interview this week. It's Rhys Nicholson. Hey! Long time listener, first time caller. Oh, my goodness, you actually listen to the show.

I do. I'm a big old fan. I listen to every week. That is so nice. I can't wait to find out what Wikipedia is. Those are the end of my references. It's pretty good. Rhys, can I ask you a quick question? Sure. How good is it to be alive?

Oh, I'd rather die. What is it? How does she say it? Well, I think that's a fresh take on an old classic. Yeah, yeah. I'd rather die. Those are the binaries. Alive or dead, I'd rather- No, what is the shit?

Why am I blanking at what she says? I can't remember. It's something like- I wish I- I wish I was never born. I wish I was never born. Sorry. I wish I was never born. Are we allowed to say what Jess is doing? No. Probably not. No, okay. Never mind.

But now it sounds so mysterious. We're just one. She's fine. She's fine. Nothing to report. She's one. She's fine. She's fine. Nothing to report. She's fine. Exactly. She's fine. She's fine. She's fine. You've been doing that to me for years, so I was just onto it. She's fine.

Hey, do you reckon, Rees, if you have listened before, you could probably explain how the show works then. Okay, so someone has written about, like, about a year 10 book report about something, and we're not going to talk over it and do shit riffs. Shit riffs? Yeah, dog shit riffs. Dog shit riffs. Yeah. And now it's just going to be we're just going to listen and it's not going to take three hours. I've been told that. I made the mistake of saying I do not have a hard hour.

Yeah. And then you're like, it'd be good to be done in three and a half hours. Which is like, is it- I was saying off air, I feel like I know who did the report by the length of the episode, and I feel like now finding out once I've gotten here who's doing the report, maybe I should say I do have a three hour hard out. Yeah, I was like, you're saying three hours. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Please give us a hard out. We need that was like, you're saying three hours. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Give him a hard out. The man can chat. But the- That's coming from Matt. Yeah.

He's telling me that I can chat. Well, you know what- Even he doesn't remember if he can. My episodes are long because you and Jess are chatting while I'm trying to tell a story. How about that? This is fucking tense. That's actually a pretty good point. Yeah, that's a good point.

All right. So we always start with a question, which, Rich, you know that. Yes. It's Matt asking the question because it's your topic this week. What's your question? Well, I think this is normally, um, geography is Dave's strong suit, because Jess isn't big on geography, but Rhys, you're a big traveller. Yeah, sure.

This is a battle of two titans of the, uh, the field of geography. And by travelled, you mean a tour for comedy. So we've seen some of the best Westerns of the world of geography. And by travel, do you mean a tour for comedy? So I've seen some of the best Westerns of the world. Yes. Some of the best Westerns. Some of the best Beth Westerns. Yeah, no, I think so. But I'm pretty sure you've both been to this place. All right. So I'm going to ask,

what city has these nicknames? You can jump in at any point. The melting pot. Oh. The centre of the universe. Oh, I mean. The capital of the world. New York City.

Correct. Yay. The melting pot. Yeah. Well, probably not within the next three years. I feel like that's going to change. I went straight to Gary, Indiana because of the symbol of the melting steel. Their logo is a melting pot, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

So that really threw me off. Being tipped onto the world. And having been to Indiana, I don't know if it's much of a melting pot. I wouldn't describe it as a melting pot unless it was like a bechamel sauce. They've got- there's a lot of different nicknames. The Big Apple's probably the most famous one. Are you going to get to that if we really- Yeah, the Big Apple is the final one.

Yeah. The city that never sleeps, the city so nice they named it twice. The five boroughs. Metropolis. Gotham. It's got heaps. The greatest shitty in the world, which is- Is Gotham, like Gotham is New York. What's Metropolis? Also New York, I think. Also, or like-

But yeah, they're like two, they're both existing in the same unit. Oh, this is going to be nice. They should have been like in LA. Metropolis should have been in LA. Yeah. So all the superheroes are douchebags. But very well, very well douchebags with wonderful skin. Hello to our La La Land listeners. Yeah. Hello to all well douchebags with wonderful skin. Hello to our La La Land listeners. Yeah.

Hello to all our douchebags. They know what they are. Yeah. So anyway, today's episode is based in the city of New York. Wow. City. So we have been there. And, Rhys, you would have we've toured there many times.

Yes. I'm an American citizen. Yes. I found this out when you posted a photo of- you've got a US passport. I got- my dad's American. I got a US passport. Not as useful as it used to be. I'll say. You stopped posting that on Instagram? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have liked it a lot more 15, 20, 30, 40 years ago. But, no, it's- I would like- I would prefer a European one.

But so if there's any- I've married- I've married other people before. If anyone- Are you married to European royalty or? No, I just like to- I would like to- I feel like I'd use the British one a little bit more, surely. I feel like you guys are the same. Because like, I know that you want to tour America and it's a fucking nightmare to tour that place. It's really hard. Yeah. It's really hard.

And I like was going to ask you for advice and then you- which you actually wrote a beautiful letter for us, which is very, very helpful. I should appreciate that. But yeah, and then I realised that you can just go anytime you like because of the passport. Yeah, I just go- when my husband and I travel there, we have to go on different lines and sometimes it will be like an hour wait as I just wander through. You're on the other end. They offer me drugs as I go through. Welcome back. Oh, here are your slippers and your gun.

Yeah, I don't know. It's that funny thing with America, isn't it? Where I do love America. I did a little tour there last year and it was great and I love it so much. But then everything about the news is like, it's bad. Don't go there. My sister lives in New York as well, so I've spent quite a bit of time there. But New York, it's separate to America, surely. Yeah. Yeah, well, if you think things are bad.

Uh-oh. This is- this isn't a happy report. Are we doing September 11? Is that what we're doing? No. Have I come to do this podcast? The podcast that I love, on what is the last episode? No, yeah, that's why we got- we made sure we got an American citizen on. Yeah. Sort of gives us a pass to make the jokes. Yeah.

Which we would never make. No. Of course, no, that's not the topic today. The listeners already know the topic, so let's just get stuck into it. Sure. On the 31st of May 1990, a 78 year old retiree named Joseph Prochy was shot in Queens. That's one of the burrows. Yeah, it is.

One of the top five. Yeah. One of my top five. So how do you rank them? Yeah, right. Let's go. One. Oh, wait, do we want to start at five? Yeah, you got to count them up. We'll do it like, like famous New York show. Oh, the look of fear in your eyes.

The top five list. The Bronx? Staten Island. Isn't that famously the lowest? Yeah, yeah, the fairies bad. Oh, I thought you could put that at one. I mean, that's where I would put it. Okay, sorry, you were going society rules, not you.

Yeah. What's your five? Oh, okay, I'll top five in any order. Staten Island. Bronx, Manhattan, Queens and Brooklyn. That's good. Yeah. And so you've you've put Manhattan at number three. In any order. In any order. Okay. All right.

I knew in the any order you did was least to most preferred. So this man got shot in Queens. He got shot in Queens. Flushing Queens? Flushing Queens. Was he there to sell make up? It was a crushing scene. It really would have been.

So Detective Mike Cirovolo attended the crime scene that night. He remembers, quote, A detective picked up Procchi's coat and he shook it and a bullet fell down onto the concrete steps. The bullet had passed through Joe Procchi and had come to rest in his heavy coat. He was tired. Yeah. The bullet was tired. The bullet was asleep. Oh my God.

Do you know how fast I was going? Yeah. He's killed this man. But do you think it's something that cops do where they just shake evidence? Yeah. Just pick stuff up and give it a good shake? I do feel like I wouldn't see too much of, like, Detective Gorin and aliens in criminal intent just shaking a corpse to see what happens. We'll see what falls out. Or falls teeth.

Okay. They were just looking for change or something. They wanted to buy a newspaper from one of the vending machines. Trevalo continues. That's the detective. Once we were able to interview him, he survived. He said that he was out for his nightly walk. The shooter followed him.

He told him, get away from me. I don't have any money. And that's when he got shot. It was dark. His eyesight was not good. He couldn't tell us what the perpetrator looked like, so it wasn't really helpful. It's so funny to be like, this guy, this victim. I've been mugged three times. Really?

Yeah. And you are? Yeah, a traveller. I'm a very- I'm very- I'm open to the universe. But- and one of the times I got mugged a block away from a police station and it was a very polite mugging and I had to go in to the police station and there was a little bit of that vibe. I mean, also ACAP, but went in and the cops, I was like, hi, I just got mugged like five minutes ago and they were like, where?

And I was showing them on the map, like there and they're like around the corner and they were like, where? And I was showing them on the map, like there, and they're like, around the corner. And they were like, kind of laughing about it. I was like, yeah, I got mugged looking at a police station. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah, where were you? Yeah. Well, eating donuts, is that what it comes to? Yeah. Was this an American one? Nah, Australian.

So they might have been having like a- Probably having like, Vegemite. Finger bun. A Cheesy Mite scroll. Yeah. Baker's Delight, or something from Michelle's Patisserie. Yeah, yeahegemite. Finger bun. A Cheesy Mite scroll. Yeah. Baker's Delight or something from Michelle's Patisserie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rest in peace.

Valet. What a way to find out. Yeah. Is that true? Yeah, yeah, they're off. Where are the elderly going to sit now during the day next to a Kmart? Coffee Club. Yeah, true. They've got options. Yeah. Coffee Club. Maybe this is Starbucks' chance to really break into Australia. Yeah, that's right. Never worked here, did it? No.

I think it was Michelle's patisserie that I used to live with someone and her parents lived next door to the founder, maybe? And that they had a tennis court where the- which was also the entrance to the garage and it would lift up sort of Thunderbird style and they could drive their cars into their whatever 14 car garage. Out of the tennis court. Yeah. Michelle. Michelle did well. For a while there. Well, I love Michelle in the wintertime.

Anyone remember that from the 90s? No, just me. Newcastle. There was an ad that was like, I love Michelle in the wintertime. I love Michelle in the spring. Oh, like that. And it was just a picture of bad looking cakes. And is it for Michelle's birthday?

Yes. No, it's just an ad for a woman called Michelle. A local ad. I love my wife Michelle. Exactly. That's a Glenn's twing and ad about his wife Michelle. I've got extra money. This is my happy anniversary, baby.

And someone comes around that hates Michelle. Because she actually broke my heart. That's a song about Paris normally, isn't it? Yeah, probably. Michelle. She actually broke my heart. That's a song about Paris, normally, isn't it? Yeah, probably. I love Paris in the wintertime. I love Paris in the spring. Which I think was big in the 90s as well, because of a Kevin Kline movie. Doesn't matter. My parents had the soundtrack. Doesn't matter.

I think it could have been Ferguson Player that I'm thinking about the tennis court. I love Ferguson Player. Which my dad calls Ferguson Plaro, which I love. What's Ferguson Player that I'm thinking about the tennis court. I love Ferguson Player. Which my dad calls Ferguson Plare, which I love. What's Ferguson Player? Well, it's like an adjacent to Michel's. They sell, but they do very good pies. Is it- yeah, some brand. Fantastic.

Is it Victoria exclusive? Oh, maybe. Oh. I almost thought it sounded quite French, Ferguson Plare, but- Same with Michel's. What? Paris, Melbourne, a place of alleyways and coffee. Well, there's also the end of one of the streets in Melbourne that is a Paris end.

I forget which one. You haven't come across that in your few years living here? Nah. There's a, yeah. I don't walk around. I don't look at it. The Paris end of Collins Street. Oh my goodness.

Like some people will tell it to you seriously like, oh yeah, you should check out the Paris end. Is it called that because it is closer to Paris? Like actual Paris? Yeah, yeah. Just slightly north, it's the north end of the street. Like there's like, that's the Paris end of the studio. I think there maybe there's a Prada out there or some sort of Paris place. There's one Chanel and they go, oh, Parisian.

Oh, you got to check out the Antarctic end of Cullen's Strait. This time of year. Oh my God. It's not as colourful as you'd think. Oh, anyway, we haven't got far in. No. This is definitely going to- Yeah, yeah, we're going to do it. It's going to happen.

And you're both going to blame me. Yeah. But I mean, come on. What takes the longest is the dogshit rift. I have actually already noticed so many times you've tried to get it back on track. So, like, respect to you. It is definitely Jess and me who- Okay, I'll shut the fuck up then. Jesus, Dave. You're just getting me to blame. Never blame the guest. Okay.

Sorry. I act up. I act up. I'm pretty sure- I've got a parasocial relationship with this podcast and I've forgotten that we're not family. You're yelling at your iPod from inside the iPod. Yeah. I've got an iPod. So, so yes. Anyway.

Someone's been shot. And then Trevolo's sort of turned on, like, this is hopeless. Useless witness. No, good. The shooting wasn't particularly out of the ordinary. This is New York City in 1990 and during that 12 month period, apparently there were 212,000 violent crimes reported. Pre-Giuliani. 212,000?

Yes. Is that possible? Giuliani gets a brief reference later. I couldn't get my head around it, but this is according to DisasterCenter.com. And it was a pretty official looking, like, graph. It feels like that- how did that affect the population? Like, that's unbelievable. That's wild.

Six or seven hundred every day. Yeah. What's the population of New York City? Apologize for that. It is a loose time in history that time of New York City. Apologize for that. It is a loose time in history that time in New York. Like, there's a story- there's a movie called Paris is Burning. Well, you looked that up, wasn't it? There's a movie called Paris is Burning that's kind of about the ballroom scene, like a kind of queer, like, voguing.

Vogueing, yeah. And there's a person in that documentary called Dory and Cory, who is like a kind of famous- they call them, like, housemothers. And she's in it a lot and she's a really fascinating person. Anyways, when she died, they were going through the back of her closet and they found in a steamer trunk a mummified dead man. And it was this guy that had the theory that this guy broke into her house and she shot him and was like, well, it's the mid and early 90s

and I'm a queer person, I'm going to go to jail for this. So I'm going to wrap him up in some dooners and put him in the back of my closet and not worry about it. And he'd been there for like 10 years. Wow. And because it was New York in the 90s, people were like, that guy just disappeared and they're like, ah, probably murdered. That guy disappeared.

That apartment smells a bit funny. Ah well. It's New York. Yeah. Apparently 7.3 million. So what's that? funny. Oh well. It's New York. Yeah. Apparently 7.3 million. So what's that? That's still a pretty big chunk, but it's, you know, it's not every other person.

Yeah. It just seems crazy. And these are violent crimes. Yeah, that's fine. Yes, exactly. Chances are it's only a few of us. And you know what's crazy? Three people did all of them. And we're talking about one of them today. Oh, the penguin. all of them. And we're talking about one of them today. The Penguin!

We will get to the Penguin. He's still at the Antarctic end of New York. So yeah, over 200,000 violent crimes. They're like, just shooting, the guy survived. It's not a high priority. There's so many murders happening. But what made this crime scene stand out to Detective Churavolo was- Churavolo.

I want to call him Mike because every time I look at his name, I have to go, all right, stop, have a think. Yeah. Try and predict. Sounds like a delicious treat for Michelle's patisserie. Oh, one Churavolo please. Churavolo please. Make it two.

Toi. So, at the scene, Travolta says he finds a cryptic, eerie note. Did it, like, fall out of the jacket pocket? He shook it? Yeah. Would you say it was a riddle? Oh, my God.

Jim Carrey killed this man. Somebody stop him. Yeah. What's this buffoonery? But he... On the top left of the note was a circle with a cross through it, like a crosshair, and on the top right was a circle with three slices of pie drawn into it, each with a different symbol. I'm listening.

And that's- It's all coming together. You love pies and- Oh no. Dave, we've finally cracked this down. The greatest culmination of the entire history of this podcast was one of you finding out that the other one was a serial killer and revealing it on the podcast. I was like, here's a story of a famous serial killer around Melbourne in the last 30 years. Anyways.

All right, you got me. And then, yeah, the note simply reads, Zodiac, time to die. Oh, what? They're back? Yeah, well, the Zodiac killings, they're infamous, right? Yes. We covered them way back on episode 64. But here's a quick recap. They occurred between 1968 and 1969.

And according to Zodiac Chrono- You do listen. Chronic Club drew H. Beeson. I like how you're claiming that as something you'd need. It's from the podcast you guys invented it. We didn't invent it, but it's also that we would stop on any date. And I appreciate that Reese brought that up. Yeah. But you guys did invent the position 69.

Yes. Oh my God. I've invented so many sexual positions of my own. That was a nice mistake. And then the three of us came together and were like, let's do some- Because you're famously a massive slut. So slutty. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Slutty. Slutty. Am I saying that right?

So this is according to Zodiac Chronicle, Drew H. Beeson. The Zodiac killings were crimes that occurred in Northern California. It was a very complex set of crimes, involved five deaths and two survivors. It was a very strange set of murders and involved letters to newspapers. It was a very strange set of murders and involved letters to newspapers. It also involved ciphers, which were messages hidden in cryptic codes, and it became the most notorious unsolved mystery in American history. Last confirmed notice we got from the San Francisco Zodiac was in 1974 in what's known as the Exorcist Letter. That's called an abyss.

Which means that if this was the same killer, there had been a period of 16 years between letters. Detective Churavolo noticed the similarities and it's amazing that he- yeah, 16 years and he's still like, so there was another one of these. How about this? Could that be the same guy? So he contacted the lab, the crime lab in San Francisco to get a comparison between the handwriting. Could it be that this is the original zodiac resurfacing on the East Coast of America after 16 years?

Well no, according to- Aww. Thanks for listening everyone. Should we be disappointed? It was Jack the Ripper. Yeah. Aww. I did, I thought about holding that back longer, but I'm like, I think most people will know

that we did our episode about it after 1990 and we probably would have mentioned it. Yeah. It's very true. And also, it just would have come up, like, every time there's a documentary on, like, I was going to say Foxdale or something, but it's always like the mystery of the Zodiac killer or the mystery. And you watch to the end as if they're going to tell you what happened in there. I feel like this would have hit the news. Yeah, exactly.

So, according to Trevolo, I got a call from the detectives in San Francisco and they let us know, this is a copycat. This is not our Zodiac. The handwriting didn't match up at all. Weird thing to be territorial about. Hands off. This is ours. Get your own.

We pissed on the serial killer, so you can't have it. A couple of weeks later, Trevolo is told the police have been sent another letter via the New York Post. So the New York Post has been sent a letter by the New York Zodiac Killer. OK. Well, shooter at this point. And the New York Post is kind of a shit one, right?

Like it's kind of- Yeah, it's one of the Murdoch. It's the tabloid-y one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know this for sure, but it's the kind of one that might talk about alien abductions on the cover. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. They want the truth. Yeah. I appreciate that. It might be- Is it their version of the Northern Territory News?

Yeah, maybe. Less crocodile based. Yeah. Yeah. Less kangaroos fucking a pig. Yeah. I wonder what their version is. Probably squirrels. Squirrels fucking a pig. That's harder to do.

Although what a front page. You see a crocodile in the centre of New York City. That's a thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm clicking on that. So this note reads, This is the zodiac. The 12 sign will die when the belts in the heaven are seen. The first sign is dead on March 8 1990 1.45am

white man with cane shoot on the back in the street. The second sign is dead on March 29 1990 2.57am white man with black coat shoot on the back in the street. The third sign is dead. On May 31, 1990, 2.04 AM, white old man with cane, shoot in front of house. I know New York, the city that never sleeps, but old people with canes really wandering up and down the street at 2 AM frequently. That's setting yourself a hard target if you're a serial killer. I get and how, yeah, if he, maybe he fells canes and so he knows he's got like a database of all the people. Or he's got the cane as a prop. He's an old man. Hey, hey, hold it.

And like, oh. Oh my god, this is sounding like The Penguin again. If there's one thing I know about old men as well, you throw a cane at them, they catch on. Yeah, yeah. And they're such a little tap dance twirl. Yeah, yeah. I also thought that it was very beat poetry that like, I really wanted like a... Hey, Joe, can you add that in post?

And do it with my lip. That works really well. Yeah, it kind of gives it a bit of a... Yeah. Ah, it signed off, even though at the start it says, this is the Zodiac. He signs off Faust and then it says, no more games, pigs. And then it says, all shoot in Brooklyn. No grooves in bullet. And that's the note. You can see it here. Oh, all right. It's got some of the diagrams going up top, like you said, got the Zodiac symbol.

It does look like the type of, you're on a phone call and you're taking some notes and also just doing some doodles up in the corner. Not all the same. Like, like drawing a box and then putting like a little frill around it. And then, like, it's a very, um, I mean, it just sounds like maybe someone speaking English as a second language, right? Could be. On the back, was it? Shoot on the back. English as a second language, right?

Could be. On the back, was it? Not shoot on the back. Yes. Or you're just someone trying not to use anything, you know, when you're- You wonder, you go, is it someone using their left hand and purposely, you know, like, you're keeping it vague because you don't want to be caught. But you're taunting. Calling them pigs. Root. Squirrels and pigs? Squirrels and pigs? Squirrels and pigs.

A squirrel fucking a cop in the centre of New York City. So, yeah, there's a bit to go through here, I would say. Okay. All right. Firstly, the note mentions three murders. At this point, they're only aware of one. I'm sorry, I've got to- is this not predicting murders? No, the third one- These dates have already passed.

The dates have already passed. Gotcha. And the third one is Procchi, the old fella who had the coat shaken out. Oh. So, and that isn't even a murder. He's in hospital. He's not doing great, but he's alive. And the details of that third victim match perfectly, note for note.

Right, they're looking for two other potential victims. Exactly. And then the other, I'll get back to that in a second. And then the other thing is it's signed off as Faust. Hmm, the devil. Yeah, the Faustian pact thing. Apparently, I only knew of the Faustian pactact as like the idea of making a deal with the devil, right?

Is that right? Yeah, is that the guy that went down to Georgia and made a deal with the devil? I think he went to the crossroads. So this is according to Britannica. I was really hoping Dave would just pick this up as a book guy. No, I'm sorry. No, I didn't mean- I didn't mean a lot of that! I'm fucking out. I remember... I was not...

I took one look at you and thought, never read a book. No. That is not what I meant. I've dreamed of coming on this podcast for so long. And... What I've... To be treated this way. Wait, what I was trying to say was...

Just spit on me, Matt. Dave gave me nothing is what I was saying. I SAID THE DEVIL! That's what it basically is. Please spit on me. Yeah. Um, this is the Garden of Britannica. There's a girter and all that sort of stuff. Faust is the hero-

I don't know, I don't read. One of the most durable legends in Western folklore and literature. The story of a German necromancer and astrologer who sells his soul to the devil in exchange for knowledge and power. Apparently there were maybe up to two real Fausts. Mm hmm. Up to two. Up to two.

At least one. Up to two. At least one, but it could be zero. No, it could be zero. Could be zero. Up to. Up to. Up to and including. I love the term necromancer as well, where they've tried to, like, give it a really cute name for what is someone fucking the dead. Is that what necromancer is?

I think necro- on a- necromancy is- No, the necrophilia. Oh. Necromancer sounds like the bit before the necrophilia, doesn't it? Yeah, where you're taking the dead body out for dinner. You get a wine and don't. Yes! And then wrap them up in a doona, back in the cupboard, never to be thought of again.

But what does necromancer mean? Oh, I'm looking it up. It's doing spells and stuff for the dead, is that right? Oh, it says a person who practices necromancy. Beautiful. No further questions, I assume? It's a great drag name as well. Necro-Nancy.

And then it has an example. Dr. Faustus was a necromancer of the 16th century. All right, we're going around in circles now. Tell us what it is. Also called black magic. century. All right. We're going around in circles now. Tell us what it is. Also called black magic. Oh, OK. Sorry, I went straight to fucking dead people. Apparently it's from the ancient Greek word for corpse, necro and prophecy, mancy.

Mancy is a nice name for a boy or a girl. Corpse prophecy. Beautiful language. Anyway, that's that's that doesn't really come to anything. It just shows that this. Oh, they signed off as vows. Yeah. Yeah. They sort of started by saying that they were the Zodiac and ended by saying they were vows. I forgot who they were.

Yeah. So what could it all mean? Oh, the note also has no grooves in bullet. Oh yeah. Bullets technically usually grooved. I think for her pleasure, but they normally, or hey, let me let Cirovolo explain. Thank you. He says guns are unique. There's lands and grooves inside. So you can match bullets to the gun it was fired from. Basically, like they all almost have their individual fingerprint. Right. Right.

So what's the problem with this generation? Oh, all guns are unique and interesting and smart. Snowflakes. Every bullet's a bloody snowflake. Yeah, back in my day, bullets were fucking bullets. When the bullet was tested at the lab, it was found to have no grooves, just as the note suggested, something only the shooter would have known. And this meant that the shooter was probably using a zip gun, which Cirovolo describes as a crude homemade gun. It's basically a length of pipe. They're impossible to trace. It's just a piece of plumbing." Beeson says, that was actually pretty intelligent knowing that

he would never be able to be linked to these guns. Did he say it in that tone? I should say, yeah. It's actually pretty intelligent. It does. It sounds so dismissive. That was actually pretty intelligent. This guy who is escaping any justice so far. So, Cirovolo notices- Oh, so far.

Yeah, I don't want to give anything away one way or the other. So, Cirovolo notices that the note writes, on May 31st, white old man with cane shoot in front of house is Joe Procci, but of course, he also notices there are two other shootings prior to that. Well, that's actually pretty smart, pretty intelligent to notice that. Well, he's a detective. You don't get that badge for nothing, OK? Yeah.

Detective, necro detective. You've got to fuck quite a few dead squirrels to get that badge. Detect romance. Detect romance. Detect romance. That's really good. Thank you. We don't know why or how.

It's come- it'll come around somewhere. So they go through all the murders in their records, but find no matches. Even if there's like 50,000 murders that occur in the last 12 months. Well, they're- there's probably not that many murders. OK. Just violent crimes. I don't want New York in 1990 getting a bad rap. It was a paradise. How many murders in New York 1990?

That was the year I was born. I think it's- Me too. I think it's like- Maybe there are reincarnations of dead New Yorkers. Oh. Maybe we're one of the murder victims. Oh, my God. Whoa. Two thousand two hundred and forty five murders.

Yeah. So how many? What? Two thousand two hundred and forty five. New York. This is according to the Google AI overview, was the deadliest year for New York City in terms of murders. Do you know what, though? Two thousand. Like, it's heaps. But if we're painting the story of like, oh, this was the worst place on Earth. Yeah, it's only one percent of the violent crimes. Yeah.

That these days, 2022, there's only 327. So it has gone down a lot. Like, grow up. Could have been worse. You're so disappointed. Yeah, I thought it was going to be like forty thousand or something. Yeah. Like, you know, a suburb. Yeah. I thought a suburb was going to be gone.

We lost one of the boroughs. Yeah. There's no Queens anymore, everyone. We killed everyone in Queens. Oh. Oh. Except for one, someone with a rent control department that's not moving. So, so to disappoint you. Yeah. But yeah, of the 2200 murders, they're like, none of these match. No, these match. Very specific.

These people with the cane. What was the other one? Uh. There was two canes and we've already had one cane and then there was one with a black jacket or was that- Black coat, yeah. Black coat. So. It's hard to keep up with it because the letter was so confusing.

Yeah. Like I feel like I've retained no information from it. Yeah, there were- No grooves. No grooves. I'll take you through it. I don't think you'll need to retain any of that particularly. Oh, okay.

That's basically gone. The whole show is like that. You walk out of here, it's gone. But we have fun. Yes. So, yeah, none of the murders have smashed, but then they're like, oh, well, he's still alive. The whole show is like that. You walk out and he gets gone. But we have fun. Yes! So yeah, none of the murders are smashed,

but then they're like, oh, well, he said this one was a murder and it wasn't, the guy's still alive. So maybe the other ones also survived. His potato cannon gun didn't work. Spud gun. He's got, I was wondering about his spud gun, he's got the deodorant can, filling it up, and then got the little barbecue ignition,

and then just shot a guy in the back with a potato. I was just about to say, geez, they've gone out of fashion, but no, I just don't hang around with teenage boys anymore. Yeah. Not 13 anymore. Yeah, you're not like lighting Link's Africa on fire. It would be crazy if you still were. Yeah. Which I am.

Yeah, okay. Love my potato. My neighbours hate me. The quality really picked up when my brother and his mates all started apprenticeships and they could get like the quality lengths of pipe. Pipe actually gluing it together properly. Yeah. Suddenly you're down in Queens shooting strangers.

I said too much. Exploding a whole suburb with your potato. So, so they start going through the non-fatal shootings and bingo. They get matches for both. So- Bingo! Were they like that? Yeah. Yeah, the old guys with canes, that's where they were. That was far too loud. Sorry about that, everyone.

They were leaving the bingo parlour. Yeah. Two old men with canes. that's where they were. That was far too loud, sorry about that everyone. They were leaving the bingo parlour. Yeah. Two old men with canes. That's number 100 and something or other. I think it's 100 and 101, because it's like one and then the cane and then one and then the cane. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's ultimate bingo. Yeah.

So on March the 8th 1990, according to Sal Bono, I'm going to quote a little bit writing for Inside Edition, Mario Orozco was on his way home from his job washing dishes at a coffee shop when he was shot in the back by a man wearing a ski mask. And then apparently the gunman put the gun to his head. He's lying on the ground. That's like one of the main bits. But he shoots him in the back, goes down, gunman holds the gun to his head. Hang on, I've just got to fill this canister up with links Africa.

Screw the back on. All right, we're back. We're back. And according to the New York Times, since he didn't move, Orozco thinks the gunman thought he was dead. The victim then walked home, made a cup of coffee and called the police. In my head, he has a cup of coffee and it shoots out like a little, it's like, oh, I got to call the ambulance. That doesn't usually do that. Yeah.

Still you cup up again. Yeah, he's like, yeah, I'm not getting the caffeine hit that I need. Man, that guy's not going to sleep. This is, what, 2am? He's had him a coffee? Yeah. That's crazy. Well, I guess- Crazy behaviour.

He had to keep awake for the cops to come. Yeah, you don't want to be falling out, falling asleep before the cops come for your attempted murder. That's embarrassing. They're banging on the door. You're sound asleep. Bleeding out. Bono continues, on March 29th, Jermaine Montesedro, who was 33 at the time, was shot in the head and in his side while in Jamaica, Queens. He too recovered from his injuries.

What? So you're getting the vibe that this homemade gun isn't probably the most powerful. But who gets shot in the head and survived? Yeah. Even with a potato. Yeah. Which is what I am now imagining he's actually using. Like, I'm just under the- Yes. Or a yam.

I am under the impression- Like, because movies tell me you get shot in the torso, you might survive. Shot in the head. That's it. You're not- That's it. That's- Yeah.

Brain. Brain. That's where the brain is. Yeah, I guess it must have, like, nicked- nicked the head. That's it. That's brain. That's where the brain is. Yeah, I guess it must have like nicked the skull. Oh, but a flesh wound. Yeah. Must have got one of the fleshy bits. Maybe add jowls. But like, yeah, I don't know.

I find this very confusing. Yeah. Is he a bad murderer? Yes. In that he's not murdered anyone yet. Yes. Yeah. But he thinks he has. He thinks he's three for three. Oh, my God. Because you would think, you think, I've got a headshot.

I'm done. It's over. Main bit. Yeah. And also the body as well. Oh, my gosh. But then you see the news and you got to look in the mirror before you go out to the next murder, you look in the mirror and you're like, you got this, man. Yes, you got this. And you got to make sure. And then the next one, he came up, I think they're dead.

I won't, I won't shoot him in the head. I'll let him go. And then they got up and got up and got made a coffee. Don't want to waste a potato. Yeah, something about him then getting up and walking home to call the cops. If you're the attempted murderer, you're reading that feeling really embarrassed. I've stuffed this up really badly. I think that's a good snapshot of New York in the 90s as well. If you get shot and you're like, oh boy, what a day.

Better get home for a hot cup of joe and wait for the pigs to come. Yeah, and then call the cops, so like you got shot? Yeah, so did everyone. Yeah. OK, take a number. I'm super busy tonight. Did you die? Did you die? Three potatoes got stolen from the corner shot near you. So Girovalo says, this guy's a serial shooter and he thinks he's killed him,

but all three survived. You're not a serial killer, he's a serial shooter. Gosh, that's embarrassing. We then realize his drawings on the pie slice coincides with the three correct astrological signs of the first three victims. So he sounds insufferable. Orozco, Montenegro, Procchi. He had the Taurus, he had the Scorpio and he had the Gemini.

Oh, he knew their births? Somehow he knew their signs. They don't know how he knew, but somehow he knew. And these three people don't know each other. No. Well, that's- Okay, I'm back on. Yeah. This is crazy.

Maybe he does the horoscope for the New York Post. Like, you will get shot today, Taurus. The next day, it's like, yeah, I live in New York. Yeah, we're all getting shot today. It's gonna happen. But luckily, no one I live in New York. Yeah. We're all getting shot. It's gonna happen. But luckily, no one dies or very few. You'd be like, yeah, everyone gets shot. Yeah. Very few die.

Yeah, like two thousand or something. Yeah. In a whole year. A blip. Chances are you're going to be fine. Yeah. What's that? That is more than that's multiple a day, though, in one city. People being murdered. Yeah, but it's only one percent of the violent crimes.'s multiple a day, though, in one city. People being murdered. Yeah, but it's only one percent of the violent crimes.

Yeah, OK. When you put it like that. Pretty good. That's the- this is a good podcast now because it's just three white male presenting people talking about, like, violence is fine. It's honestly- I don't know why. As soon as the one woman on the show leaves, we're like, stop complaining. Well, I mean, you know Jess better than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She'd be like, why are we even talking about this?

Yeah. It's just showing that the- they had a lot of criminals, but they were really bad. Or their heart wasn't really in it. Yeah. So they were seeing others and going, I guess this is what I do as well. Yeah. And then no one was actually properly. Yeah. Going through with it. Yeah, being a serial killer anyway. Commit. Or die. Murder.

So, Chirivolo continues. So, a lot of this I'm quoting, there's a Netflix documentary about it. So, a lot of my Chirivolo quotes I'm notating from the actual show. It's great, great fun to watch. And there'll be a link to the show in the actual show. It was great, great fun to watch him. There'll be a link to the show in the show notes. But Cherubola, he's like this guy, you know, those ones where they show a bit of him sitting down to be interviewed, bit of the natural stuff. And someone behind the camera goes, oh, it's a nice suit.

And he goes, yeah, Taylor puts my name in it. And he opens his jacket and his name's written in it. So it's like Zara. Weird nickname. It's a nickname. I like it. Top man. But they also show. This jacket's complimenting him.

They show his high school yearbook and under his photo it says Ambition Police Officer. So he was- A psycho. From a kid he always wanted to be, always wanted to be a cop. Anyway, Chirivolo continues. Now I'm thinking there's 12 signs. He's got a game plan and his intent is to carry it out. How do we get this guy before there are more? Again, that note is brought down to the lab

to try and get latent fingerprints off it. Were there prints on this? Answer, no. So he probably wore gloves. Again, detective. God, he's good. He is good. How's he know?

The New York Post plastered the letter on the front page story. Chirvalo is like saying, please don't post it. Give us more time. If we catch him, you can have the exclusive, but don't let everyone know, you know, some of the only information that we have secretly, you know. Yeah. This is our only edge at this point.

But yeah, put it on the front page and this put further pressure on the police to crack the case. Another letter came to light as well. It was sent through on the 17th of November, 1989, meaning it came through several months before the shootings. And this is what it said, this is the Zodiac. The first sign is dead. Doesn't seem like there was anyone killed at this point, but anyway, the Zodiac. The first sign is dead. Doesn't seem like there was anyone killed at this point, but anyway. The Zodiac will kill the 12 signs in the belt when the Zodiacal light is seen. The Zodiac will spread fear.

I've seen a lot of police in Jamaica Avenue and Eldon Lane, but you are no good and will not get the Zodiac. Orion is the one that can stop zodiac and the seven sister. And was that sent to the New York Post, that one? And they just went, this is a crazy letter? That was sent to the cops. Oh, and they went, ignore. Well, they looked into it and they couldn't- they couldn't figure out, you know, apparently they get a lot of wacky letters.

And they're like, they looked into it and they're like, I guess this is just another- And he just themes a note, like he themes- you don't want to meet him at a party. You know what I mean? Like he's going to want to do like a reading for you and like, Oh, I brought my guitar, by the way. Like, that's who this guy is. You're building a profile. Yes. Right before my eyes. Yeah. I'm looking for a guy carrying around a guitar.

And a potato gun. He's always tuning it. Well, what do you think in age and, like- I reckon, like, thirty six. So he's come to terms with the fact that he's thirty five and he's not pleased. Things have not led to where he wanted them to be. So he started to murder people to find purpose. I think thirty six was to be about the age men panic. Yeah, yeah. It's classic midlife cross, you think?

Yeah. Thirty six, definitely white. And yeah, so it was either this or a sports car. And if you count a sports car. Not in New York 1990, the rent. Yeah. And you know what's very affordable? Spud guns. Yes. Just need a length of pipe. Link's the odorant.

Anabarb, you're lying. So there's all these references to the occult and astrology in his notes. And Trevolo thought that, quote, he writes about Orion, the seven sisters, the belts in heaven. So there's an aspect of this investigation that required some thought outside the proverbial box. Enter. That actually sounds really smart. Yeah, if you think about it.

Enter Detective Larry Melanesi. He was part of a team that would look into astrology, astronomy, witchcraft, all these sorts of things. Oh my God, it's spooky Mulder. It is apparently, he, but like seeing him interviewed, he reminds me more of a, like a De Niro character. He sort of has the mannerisms of De Niro. But yeah, it's like De Niro playing Mulder.

Oh my gosh, imagine. I'd love to see that. And if you're watching this on a clip, that was a dead on De Niro. But yeah, it's like De Niro playing Mulder. Oh, my gosh. Imagine. I'd love to see that. And if you're watching this on a clip, that was a dead on De Niro. Yeah, the lip move, the head bob. I didn't even attempt one. No, you did. Oh, your one. Yes. No, Matt, you did that. You did that. You did something. You did something with your face. You did it.

You were about to say, are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? There's no one else here. You were about to say that. Why am I being bullied? I don't know. Jess isn't here. We're praising your acting. Yeah. You've got the part.

You're playing Robert De Niro playing Fox Mulder. One of the treacherous things about being gay is that sometimes you think you're just having a conversation with someone and you realise you're bullying them. I think tonally that was fine. Oh, no, no, I was absolutely bullying. Yep. I just demonstrated you in front of all your friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that was banter. All in good fun. I think that's podcasting. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, probably Milanesi or De Niro Molder. De Niro Molder. Later said people would pejoratively call them things like the Devil Desk and the Voodoo Team. Wow. That doesn't- X-Files, they were getting a lot of flak from the other agencies. And this is 1990, is this pre-X-Files? That's just pre-X-Files. Just.

Jeez, I wonder. Do you reckon that Chris Carter ripped it off? Chris Carter was inspired. I mean, was inspired. Also Voodoo Desk isn't that bad. No, I think both of them sound sick. Yeah. Voodoo Desk, Devil Desk Voodoo Team.

It's great. I'd love these. I'd see a band called that. Yeah. Voodoo desk, devil desk, voodoo team. It's great. I'd love these. I'd see a band called that. Yeah. Welcome to the devil desk. How can I help you? So I was hoping to speak to the voodoo team actually. Oh, I'll put you right through. So, Milanesi and his team figured out there was a pattern. The shooter was operating on a 21 day cycle. According to Milanesi, the narrow molder, we had three shootings and these notes came in. They were all very detailed with times and dates and zodiac signs.

We created a chart with the dates of the shootings. We had March 8th, March 29th and May 31st. What we could see was a 21 day cycle being followed here. We found out that the Parks Department had a very prestigious astronomer. Sorry, what were the dates? Yes, I can see you're right. The first two were in 21 days, and then there's a bit of a gap to the 31st. But I think that is, it's like some, it's a 21 multiple between the second and third.

Oh, it might be like a forty, forty two. Or a sixty three. Oh, my God. I forget people are listening to this on a recording. They can rewind back and check. They can just check. I also love- I want my new phone tone to be you whispering, April, May. It was quite like- it was genuinely quite pleasant ASMR. Okay. Yeah.

Well. March 1st. March. Yeah. Well, um. March 1st. March 2nd. March 3rd. 21 days. Oh. Okay. This is the new Sleep Podcast.

Oh, man. That is good. That is powerful when it works on yourself. But I'm always tired. So. It does feel like statistically they are like clutching their straws out the first two 21 days apart. Well. And the one after that, if you multiply 21 by 3.

Oh Dave, Dave, Dave. You haven't heard the kicker. So back to Mellon F. The kicker is, he wrote another letter saying, I'm working on a 21 day cycle. I missed one in the mail. I'm sorry. I just take my mother to hospital. Oh, I said too much.

Don't check the hospital records. Oh no. So they had access to this great astronomer and apparently he laid it out. This is still Melanesi. We found out that on March the 8th, three specific constellations were visible at the time of the shooting. Seven sisters, Taurus and Orion. On March 29th, all three were visible at the time of the shooting, Seven Sisters, Taurus and Orion. On March 29th, all three were visible at the time of the shooting.

The next two 21 day periods, the stars were not in the sky at the same time. No shootings. Then on May the 31st, the third shooting at 2.04 a.m., all the stars were in the sky. So we asked him, give us the next 21 days. Let's just see what's going on. And June 21st was when all three would be visible. Whoa.

All the arrows were pointing towards June 21st between 1 and 4am in the morning. I thought all the arrows are now pointing to that astronomer. Yeah. If this was Law and Order. If this was Law and Order at him. Yeah, that's right. Sorry, mate. You're coming with us. If this was Law and Order, SBU or criminal intent, we's right. Sorry, mate, you're coming with us. If this was Law and Order, SV or criminal intent, we would have met him early on in the episode. He would have helped. Yeah.

And then we see him later on in the season, in the episode and it all comes true. And it's like, oh, suddenly he seems way more creepy. And he's played by Martin Short or something like- Anytime they're like, you meet someone that's a super famous C-director, you're like, it's them. Yeah, why else? Why? They're not doing three lines at the start of an episode. Yeah, they're not even to be the greengrocer. Yeah. So, yeah, so they're pretty confident.

That is cool. They know when the next one's going to happen. And they're like, this has never happened before. You can't normally predict, you can't normally say this is when it's going to happen. We just have to be there waiting. Problem is, they're waiting in the city of New York. They think it's going to be somewhere in Queens or in they reckon they know the general area.

So I can't remember. It's got to be Queens, right? Yeah. I find New York confusing. Maybe it was because Brooklyn's also involved at some point. You just got to go there enough times and it's just it's a city that really opens up to you. You think it's so overwhelming and then one day you're like, this is my city. I think that about every city, though. I still like I've lived in Melbourne most of my life and I'm still like, how did- where's that?

I don't drive so I don't know where anything is. Yeah, I can't. I don't connect anything together in my head. No. You're like, you get off of the train here. I've got this little bit mapped out. Yeah, yeah. It's like an open world video game and you haven't opened up the whole map yet. Yeah. Those little bits where you can fast travel to places. It feels- And I know this area.

Even though I don't know what that is you're talking about. I- He was nodding a lot. He was like, oh. But I do think now I now understand open world video games. Yeah, like Red Dead Redemption or something. It's like a big open map. Gotcha. Yeah.

For you, you've spawned in the Paris end of Colin Street. Yes. And never left. No. You sleep in Chanel. Talk to me in Battletoads terms. It's like Earthworm Jim where... So I need to be going from left to right. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

But you know, that is totally- It took me so long to realise that I thought both ends of the Melbourne block were- Oh, we're back to the- Okay, yeah. At the same- I thought Parliament was on Spencer Street. Mm-hmm. Which is like the exact opposite end. Yeah, but it's confu- yeah, Parliament- But it felt a lot because I would- I don't know why, but I had them both. So I'd go to Parliament sometimes and I'm like, yeah, this is just obviously just down.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Should have just looked at a map. But did you think that Spencer Street station was not on Spencer Street? It was on Spring Street back then? No, I thought Spencer Street Station was closer to Parliament. Oh, quite long. Okay. I don't know. I was worried that Australians- Why are you bullying me? I was worried that Australians, we seem like kind of small compared to other countries.

And then we're like, I don't understand how the train works. I don't know where it goes. It's in a loop. It's in a loop. I don't know. I'm the same. I don't understand how anything works in this city but I still... Or, anytime I see a bus in Melbourne I'm like, where's that going? Yeah, yeah. It says on the front. But it doesn't, it's like, where are these people on a bus going? Yeah, yeah. I've never seen people, like, you know what I mean? Like,

this is a tram and train city, what the fuck is this bus doing here? Yeah, but I don't trust the buses. I never met a bus person, my God. No, where are they? I grew up amongst the buses. Poor souls, where are they going? Because you grow up outside the tram network. True, I did take a bus to school. I could have bus to school.

I'm othering the bus. Well, you grew up way outside of the tram network. Yeah, Newcastle. It's not even on the loop. So it will be soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of building going on. The sprawl. Bullet train. What are we talking about?

We're talking about when the next murder. The next murder is at Queens, is at Brook. It's somewhere in one of the boroughs. In the centre of the universe. June 21st between 1 and 4am. So they took this info to their boss, the chief of detectives, Joseph Borelli. He was skeptical to say the least. Oh, you can see that scene playing out as well.

Yeah, yeah. Then he's like, my budget stretch, you can have two guys. I'll give you two guys. And they're like, this is your last draw, spooky desk. I'll have your badge. Yeah. I'll have your badge. Yeah, that's that's exactly how it was playing out. But then they were like, someone's going to get shot tonight. And apparently that convinced him.

He's like, yeah, it's New York. Yeah, we're all getting shot tonight. There's like a terrible Katy Perry song. We're all getting shot tonight. So so yeah, Borelli goes, all right, you can have all the resources you need. Wow, you really flipped. Pretty fun. Bring in the army. So they put together this task force called Operation Watchdog

and Chirivolo calls these cops the best of the best. They included this big barky looking guy called Luis Savarese and he had in the interview, he's like, yeah, I've got tattoos on my back and he lists his quote. I have faces of serial killers. I got Manson, Charlie Manson, Berkowitz. I got John Wayne Gacy, the clown. And the theme was evil that men do.

Without police you have anarchy. Are you kidding me? I mean you're fighting bad guys, you know? Part of my life, you know? So that's why I did it, you know? A part of my life. That's why I did it. Okay, arrest this guy.

He just said that's why I did it. And he's got serial killers tattooed on his back. Wrap it up, we've got him. That's a man who spent his life having to explain the serial killer tattoos on his back. He's in a constant state. Hey, I'm not- I'm not- I'm not worshipping these guys.

Yeah. I caught these guys. This is- It's on my back so people only see it when I'm running away from them. What? And he brought it up, like he- they're not visible. Yeah, he's wearing a suit. So it was better though, I thought the way he called Charles Manson,

Charlie Manson. Charlie! Yeah, that's weird, man. Eh, you know. And the theme was... Evil Mendo. It felt so defensive. Well, I mean, why are we even talking about it? You brought it up. And also, no Eileen Warners? Sexist.

Oh, that is so disappointing. Women can serial kill too? It's 2025, women have the right to murder. Wait, what? So, through the media, New Yorkers were warned that a killer was on the loose, choosing victims via their astrological signs. So, if you're a Tory and you're like, I'm off the hook already. I'm done. I'm invincible.

No one can shoot me ever. But I'm up the other end. I'm a Virgo. I'm going, oh, my God, I've got a couple of months, but not long. Taurus, go out. Aquarians, stay in. Stay in. I reckon stay in. In a press conference, the police warned, if any individual approaches them in any fashion and the subjects gets around to the date of birth, be extremely careful.

And we would like to know about any incident like that that's happened. I haven't thought about how did he know that, like, I just figured he must work in a place that has records or something. Oh, good one. Like, he's like, I was going to say maybe it's a nightclub bouncer, he's looking on IDs, but all the people have been like 70, you know, plus, so probably not getting ID'd. Probably not getting ID'd, but probably also not- if he asked, they'd be like, I don't fucking know. Yeah. Imagine asking a 78 year old in 1990 New York, hey, what's your style, son?

Oh, um, poor. I'm a Gemini rising. They don't like still to this day, they genuinely don't know how most of the star signs were figured out. Ah, they still, yeah, they're not sure. So, I don't know. Maybe there maybe there was some sort of connection to a records facility. You might have busted this case wide open. Oh, my gosh. But I do love that they're like, if the conversation just happens to turn to your

birthday, your birthday, your star sign, call the police immediately. You're about to be shot. Which also, I feel like early 90s was a pretty star sign-y time, right? I reckon there was a lot of like, you'd be on a date with someone and you'd be like, what's your sign? Yes. In the early 90s? Yeah, yeah. How early did you start dating, Rees? I never really- but dating, I didn't really do it, I don't think, because I feel like we don't date in Australia.

No, that's a big- that feels LA. I think you like meet someone at a party- Is that an LA thing? Yeah. Is that a douchebag thing? I think you- That's not what I said. Do you meet- No, no, you said it. I think in Australia you meet someone, you root them, and then at a certain point you decide to keep rooting them. Yeah. Well, you- Yeah. You're like, well-

At least in my community. And by that I mean- The East Coast. The East Coast, yeah. But you know what I mean, like, I don't think there's any kind of like- when I used to watch TV shows as a kid and they would do the like, we're not exclusive, like, where I'm going on a date with this guy, but also I'm going on a date with this guy later on. Like, Sex and the City made no sense to me for a lot of reasons.

Yes. No, I think it's the same in my community. Yeah. Oh, East Coast as well. East Coast. I thought you meant the Paris concert. Oh, East Coast as well. East Coast. I thought you meant the Paris. So 21st of June, they're hitting the streets en masse trying to catch this guy. And people must be panicking in the streets, right? Because the media is also reporting.

Yeah. It's this day. Yeah, like, you'd think hardly anyone would be out, but that wasn't the case. According to former assistant DA Cheryl Ananya, there were dozens and dozens of detectives assigned to try and find him. They flooded the streets in that neighbourhood to see if in 21 days he would appear. According to Savarese, this is the big bikey go at the Tats. He's still justifying him.

Well, I mean, I don't know if you... Let's see what you think of this guy after this quote. He's sort of like being interviewed. He's kind of likeable and fun, but some of the words you say out of context are like... Is he wearing an orange jumpsuit in the interview? No. He says, that night they put people together from individual precincts and we hunted the streets. But now you got to say it's we canvassed the streets, you know.

So but we were hunting. I was hunting, you know, who we were looking for. Nobody knows. Could be a black guy, white guy, a Spanish guy. We tasked, questioned and frisked everyone who moved. Oh, Jesus Christ. And apparently there were hundreds of people out and about and anyone was out and about. They treated as if they were a killer.

Which you can't do anymore. No, we just wanted to see cats. This is the land of the free. Yeah, it's all on the- We're all just like, we all went to another place and I was like, oh boy. It's not what it never was. So it's just, there's that friskin stopping people on the street being like, are you the killer? Cats would have been peaking then as well.

Yeah. Hi, this is high cats time. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Jellicle cats as Jellicle does. Yeah. I'll tell you what, Maxwell Sheffield, he was furious around that time because he's like, I think he passed on cats. Yes, he did. Him and Andrew Lloyd Webber were always in a battle.

Yeah. Thank God he's got that sassy nanny to- Yeah, that's true. Keep him- Eventually fuck him when they didn't know where else to go with the series. Yeah. And then looking back, maybe they were all along. Do you know that the Nanny isn't a thing in the UK? Really? Yeah, we've heard of it. We've referenced it at a live show before.

We're over there and they're like, what do you want? They tried to watch it. They played like half a season and it didn't work. I know even in America, a lot of America's like, what? Why are you talking about that? Why do you talk about it so much. I can't make it clearer to American listeners how big the nanny was in Australia.

Huge. It was, that was New York to us. Yes. Piano played anytime you looked at a building. Yeah. Laugh track when you enter the room. Oh my God, everyone wore sassy dresses and walked downstairs. Chanel was a place you could shop at?

Yeah. Is that right? No, that's still a thing. Not a Chanel. Yeah. Where does she go? Something like that. And retails and a mount you could pay for something? Yes. You paid retail? And you returned them? I never didn't understand anything that they were talking about. Never understood.

I thought the butler was gay the whole time and then he ended up in a relationship with Cece. Oh my god. We should say spoiler warning. Oh, sorry. AJ, put that at the top. Spoiler alert. Oh man, it's so fun.

It's just a real fun thing to, like every reference about it is just fun. Yeah. I don't know. There's something about it is probably more fun to talk about than to watch. It's an insane show. And you know that she pitched it on a flight. She met the producer and with an actress going to LA and she met the guy and was like, I had this idea. You better believe that I've done an episode. Oh, you've done an episode. It was a bonus, a Patreon bonus episode.

I didn't think the public were ready to hear that. But it's crazy. A plane pitch. Plane pitch. And it becomes. The nanny. The nanny. The most important piece of Australian popular culture. Yes. What was it on, like 6.30 at night? Was it on like, it was on every night.

The big three was- Simpson's neighbors. And then Annie and then Seinfeld would rotate in with those four would rotate in those three prime time slots. Yeah. Wow. No one was touching the dial. Nah, channel 10.

Yeah. When it was still a thing. Yeah. A valet. It's all right. We got those last tickets on the Titanic. It's all right. We got we got those last tickets on the Titanic. We're all right. So, yeah, so. They're stopping and searching everyone.

As Chirravalo says. Now they were considered a gross violation of civil rights. But back then, we got results. Back then, it was a little faster, a little looser. Now, these days, we're going to call it, I don't know, canvassing or something faggy like that. I don't know. I don't know. I can say that. I'm allowed to say that.

People say, get a wife. I'm like, what the fuck is that? Get a wife. What? Anyway, I'm three times divorced. I don't even know why I got a wife. You want to see the tattoos? Next to Charlie Manson, that's my first wife, Elizabeth.

Yeah, I put her there to remind me the evil that women can do. Busting my balls. I have known one on a similar plane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She also turned a bunch of people against the police. Um, so, despite all that effort, 4AM came around without any luck.

Oh my god, they frisked 500,000 people. Yeah, for nothing. They got no results. Uh, they were shattered, especially the ones who pushed the theory. They were kind of putting themselves on the line. Sorry, everyone. The boss is like, you can't be serious. They're like, no, we're serious. And the boss is like, you can't, no, people don't, the murders don't happen because of the star signs. And they're like, well, they don't, but we just need this. If this guy believes that they do, then, you know, it's, it's a genuine threat, but yeah,

that was sort of, I imagine going back straight back to the office. Yeah. But then Chirivolo receives a call from the Central Park Precinct. This is how he recounts the conversation. He said, you didn't get anybody up in Queens and Brooklyn tonight, did you? I said, no. He said, you know why? Because he just shot someone in Central Park.

Oh, no. Chirvala says, son of a bitch. It was like getting punched in the stomach, punched in the solar plexus. Uh. It mixed feelings, surely, because you can go into your bosses office and say, see, I fucking told you. Yep. Yes.

So I think, I think maybe he was better at- Chirivello was better at hiding that part because someone had been shot. Whereas, M-Millenance. Oh boy. The- Is it the tattoo guy? No, no, the other, he's the De Niro Molder. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you got Bucky guy. We've got the guy whose name's on his suit, Zara, and we've got uh, Mellanassi Spooky Molder. Okay, Robert De Niro. So uh, Mellanassi remembers it more fondly, um. It was a beautiful night. We were tired, I didn't know anything would cheer me up, but then I found out some guy gets shot in the head We didn't know at the time. I don't mind saying I got a little chubby in my pants I don't mind saying a little twinge down there. I liked it. I've been chasing that high ever since

He remembers it that So he remembers that, like he got like his, the boss, Chief Borelli, he remembers him saying to everyone, hey, here's my guys, these are the ones. They told us it was going to happen. And Milanesi says, it felt really good. Not that someone got shot, but the fact that we knew we were right. It was, I'm glad he had that. Yeah. Not that someone was shot. Again, apologies to the widow. It's like they've said a crime's going to happen.

Again, it's New York in the 1990s. Someone got shot in Central Park. But also, like, you didn't stop it. So you're claiming the credit. Yep. Yeah. We did it. We did it. We knew this was going to happen. It just happened in a complete, hugely different part of New York. Yeah, that's what Millenessie says in the interview.

He goes something like, and then Chief, the Chief says, see, next time, kind of need a place as well. And he's chuckling at the same thing. They're all laughing. Wonderful. It's good to laugh in the precinct. So now there's a fourth victim. Uh oh. A man named Larry Parham, a homeless man who was on a park bench in Central Park.

The bullet passed through him though, and he survived. And the bullet was recovered. Yeah, don't tell Melansey, it was just celebrated. Yeah. So yeah, they recovered the bullet from the bench that, you know, decent evidence there. Where's he getting the birth date for the unhoused man? Yeah, well. Yeah, just chatting him up. This is the one that they think they know how. So he survived, but he was unable to provide a description of the shooter as he was sound asleep at the time.

So like this is like the most cowardly. You know, like serial killers are always a bit cowardly, but this is like, you know, next level coward. Most cowardly. Beeson says that the New York Zodiac was attacking lone individuals and was basically looking for weak targets. So he was looking for targets that he was pretty sure could not fight back if he got his shots in with his zip gun. And he was pretty much a coward.

He was definitely going after people that look pretty weak. So Beeson's a real expert, especially on the San Francisco, Californian zodiac. So like sometimes like, yeah, the New York one, coward. Not like my guy. Oh yeah. Who's taking risks. Yeah. Yeah.

He loved the, he loved the, he was from San Francisco, you know? He loves... Flowers in his hair. Yeah. And while he was asleep during the attack, the New York Times writes, Mr. Parham told the police that a stranger had earlier asked him about his astrological sign. Mr. Parham also gave some details that allowed the police to release a sketch. Like a comedy sketch?

So, yeah. This is how we think it happened. I need a place. Central Park. OK. Occupation.. Central Park. OK. Occupation, serial killer. OK. And also, I mean, would the sketch be about the fact that clearly this isn't the city that doesn't sleep because this guy was asleep? If this was true, there'd be another- someone wouldn't have been shot. So, obviously, he asked him with no mask on and stuff like that, I guess, assuming that he would later be killed.

So he was able to get a give a pretty good description. This is what they drew, put out on the front page. Is he the Zodiac? Just, I think, helping to prove that it was a pretty full on time in New York at the time. The story above it is they left her to die. Prosecutor tells grim tale Jogger trial opening. So it's just like. One of the just over 2000.

So anyway, according to the True Crime Database, is that is that kind of I'm not like. Is that kind of what you were picturing? Look, I will say he looks a little more and this is a broad generalization and hopefully not as racially charged as it's about to sound. He does look quite a bit like the cop from Die Hard. You know, the guy that's on the radio and talks into everything? The dad from Family Matters. Yes!

He does a bit. Well, they- the media caught on to a different- Uh oh. A different pop culture reference at the time. Maybe it was pre, was it pre Die Hard? Yeah. No, it was pre Die Hard. Well, they should have really gone with that. But maybe they didn't want to go with a cop. Yeah, true.

According to the True Crime Database, he described the young man as black, about 30 years old, five foot 10 inches to six feet tall and around 185 pounds. The sketch was released to the press and journalists soon began referring to it as Evil Al Roker. Oh, ow. The guy that shitties pants in the White House. Is that true? That's true. He said it on the news once. What? Apparently, yeah. It's like that morning television thing where they're just talking and he's like, I put myself in a white house. Because they're just like delirious, they're up every morning like, excuse me out?

No filter in your mouth or pants. I did a poo in a white house. Didn't make it. Got a tattoo of it on my back. Sorry, Al? What? To prove the evil that men can do. Anyway, we'll go on a break. It's the most evil thing that's ever been done in that building.

He's not a gobsy. Obviously, we never really had him here, but he had a- there was an episode that he was on Seinfeld a bunch. It kept- he was like on the cover of the TV Week and it was a recurring thing. So I knew- I've known of him for a long time as well. Jesus, it's- if we could get some of our own culture. You know, the nanny, that sort of stuff. Australian culture. The classic Australian, directed by Baz Luhrmann. Oh, yes.

A nanny remake, would it work? I don't think it would work. Where it would have to be set in probably Sydney, right? Yeah. Big smoke. Yeah, she came over from- she came over the bridge. Yeah, to the northern beaches, is that? Yeah.

Northern beaches. She was there to sell wellness, diet pills. She was there. So she became an au pair. Actually. We gotta catch a plane. Yeah, we gotta to catch a plane. Yeah, we got to cancel this podcast and get on a jet staff flight.

It'll be a jet staff flight. Yeah, that's where TV execs in Australia are flying now. Yes. I mean, maybe. So, yes. So, Homeless Man is shot but survives, Mr. Parham. And according to Girovolo, the real find at the crime scene was the note. He had his circle and crosshairs on the top. He's got his fourth piece of the pie in there, which is cancer. They checked out Parham's

date of birth and again... Terrible pie. I still ate it. It's only one of the sauces. I really believed you when you said that. And yeah, they checked in that it was right, Parham's was a cancer and Trevella continues, we still didn't know how the shooter knew the astrological sign of his victims. That was baffling. So now four victims, he's four for four. There's eight more people until he fills in the pie chart.

For crime library, Melissa Ann Madden writes, an intriguing zodiac letter arrived at the post the day after the Central Park shooting. It contained the same occult symbolism, nonsensical ramblings and lists the listing of the victims, time of death and star sign. This letter, however, was unusual in its vehement attempt to convince the Post and thus the police and public that New York Zodiac was the same person as the San Francisco Zodiac." It's so funny. Anyway, to me it is. Let's find out. Aside from a few enthusiastic exceptions, the police, press and public never really believed the two were the same. The East Coast and West Coast Zodiac.

Right. Yeah. Everything from that killer's handwriting to the victim's descriptions of the assailant pointed to the fact that the New York Zodiac was just a copycat. However, the June 22 note reads, this is the Zodiac was just a copycat. However, the June 22 note reads, this is the Zodiac. I've seen the post and you say the note sent to the post not similar to any of the San Francisco Zodiac letters?

You are wrong. The handwriting look different. It is one of the same Zodiac, one Zodiac. In San Francisco, killed a man in the park with a gun and killed a woman with a knife and killed a man in the taxi cab with a gun. Now the note, this is the bit that made me chuckle. And I know this is grim things to be laughing about,

but the note also has a doodle of the original Zodiac with the note and it says next to it, me in the park, is this similar to one zodiac? What? What? It sounds like a toddler. Aye, there he is. He's drawing a picture of the famous-

Funny little legs. San Francisco zodiac and said, huh? How would I know this? How would I know this? All the pictures we released. 20 years later. It looks like a doodle of someone wearing a paper bag on their head. Wichit, do you not remember that?

He had a black sack with it. Yeah, but like- And clip on sunnies, remember? But everyone's seen that. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, it also reads like a toddler hurriedly telling you about all the stuff they have in their room. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like they're kind of like, and one zodiac, one zodiac, like just so excited to be telling you about it, taking out all the thes and the ats. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's fun and it's just so funny. Like the first zodiac from memory was all like cold and- Yeah, yeah.

Not that needy. This guy is so needy with it. This guy's a bit more of a BTK. He was a needy student. Yeah, right. He was very like. So, right, mate. Dennis. Is that what his name turned out to be? Oh, man.

Because the last Zodiac was like had all the cryptic stuff going on as well. Yeah, he's not sent us one puzzle. No single puzzle, just maybe like, one Zodiac, it's me. I am, I'm him. Because weren't even the Zodiac letters were ciphers themselves, right? Yes, that's right. Well, that this, I mean, I can't remember looking into this, but there is something that looks like a- But again, it's like something you write on a phone call, like,

you know, like around a shopping list or something. Yeah. It's a little kind of... Yeah. So, yeah, the note, pretty silly. It's a silly, silly note. But there was a reminder that this was all serious stuff. A couple of days later, Joe Proche, who had remained in hospital, ended up dying about three weeks after he was shot, died from an infection from the wound. Oh, so that's the hospital's fault.

But you know what? Zodiac's going to claim that. Definitely going to claim it. Yeah, Zodiac claims. I got one! After this, it becomes a homicide investigation. Into the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. We'd take a big detour now. Unless he's like spitting on the bullets as he putting them in or something.

I think... Yeah. Well, we do... What's he? Give it a bit of... Rub it in the dirt a little bit. He said no dents or whatever. No grooves. No grooves. I like dints though. He didn't say no goobers. So they're like, all right, it's a murder investigation now. They throw everything at it, but the trial soon goes cold. Again, thinking outside the box, Milanessi, you know, Spooky Moldo, Spooky Milanessi, met with a warlock named Herman.

Sorry? From a big, it was a big warlock in New York. Yeah, deepest darkness forest of New York City. There's it. And it's Herman. Herman, there's footage of Herman and Herman's really playing up for the camera back in 1990. Deepest Dacus Forest of New York City. There's it. And it's Herman. Herman. There's footage of Herman and Herman's really playing up for the camera back in 1990.

He's got a snake, like, yeah, I've got a snake. But I'm not a snake expert. I'm guessing it's like a, you know, a carpet snake. Yeah, yeah. But. I'm imagining David Bowie in The Labyrinth. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

He's putting on a show. But he lives in his mother's bath. Yeah. Well, yeah. He's putting on a show. But he lives in his mother's bathroom. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's the spookiest room of the house. My mother gets home at four. So we need to do this now. So, Herman suggests he get The Book of the Law by Alastair Crowley, an English Satanist. It's a pretty famous one.

Yeah, sex magic. Sex magic. It's a pretty famous one. Yep. Sex Magic. Sex Magic. He's with the Sex Magic. Whoa. I didn't know that. Necromancy, necromancy. Right. Necromancy and the necropancy. Yeah.

So, Mellon Essie later said, That's when I started getting freaked out because we knew we were dealing with some very strange people at that point. I knew a couple of other occult stores in the area. Nobody had the book. I went up to the central research library on Fifth Avenue, finally found it. Apparently wasn't allowed to take it out. It was like, it was kind of rare. And then he says, when I sat down, I opened the cover of the book and the book opened to the exact page I wanted. Yeah, because you used your hands.

He said that the spine was kind of broken. So I was like, it was almost, and it also had a note in that page, which would also help it open to that page. It's like on a bookmark basically. But the note read and he says, I believe it said there's two different. I'm using the, you know, the funner version of his telling of this. I believe it said, white devil, we knew you were coming and it had a pentagram and a lightning bolt.

So he apparently he shat himself. He. In the library. Yeah. Al Roka. Chucked in Al Roka. Chucked a big Al. A metaphorical Roka.

A metaphorical Roka. Yeah. It's like a Roka. That's good. Sort of a terrible Cluedo like shitting yourself in the library with a candlestick. What a way to go. By myself. He's definitely reading this by candlelight. Yeah.

So apparently he's like, and he's not ashamed to say it, he pulled his gun out. On the book? Die you bastard! No one calls me white devil and gets away with it. That's why they're like, we wouldn't let you take the book out of the building. We knew this would happen. No, he was, no, he's not, he's not thinking it's the book, but he's thinking someone is watching me.

Someone knows that I was coming to read, to look at this and they're in here. Poor librarians had a gun pulled on them. Yeah. So he was, he was afraid. Third time this week. And then he. I hate New York. He, you know, he figured out no one was actually there, put his gun away.

And he read the book. It freaked him out even more. He read the whole book. Oh, he read that whole section and to him it all linked up with the murders. It said it was all about like trying to take slaves with you into the afterlife and you had to kill them in certain ways and you wanted the most people to know but everyone to be confused. All these sort of things that you know, vague-ish but linked up to the murders. And he became really wary of being followed home. He'd worked with the mafia for years, but this was the first time he really started freaking out. He'd like turn off early

on the highway, circle the block. Apparently his wife's like, you're looking different. You're looking ashen face and stuff. So he was all pretty freaked out by it. But I don't think it's different tellings of it. We'll have that happening earlier and that led to them picking that date, but others have it later. So I don't know where it happened, but I thought it was interesting little side note anyway. So they finally get a break in the case when the lab finds a partial fingerprint on the most recent letter. Unfortunately, things weren't computerized back then. So they can't like, they kind of have to match it by eye almost like manually go through, which is very laborious. They have to a lot of time and effort, but it

leads to nothing. They can't match it or anything. But still, they're like, one day, you know, if we have a fun and maybe this will be the- That would have been, like, such an annoying job. There's not enough Dexys in the world that would have, like, even- or a Vyvanse, whatever, to just sit there and have to like just hold up, you know what I mean? Like, and so what- where are they keeping all the fingerprints? And they're so like, like how- they all kind of look the same.

Yeah. So they look for those little swirls. Swirl. Hmm. Whirl. Swirl. Whirl. Wait, wait, wait, wait. No.

Swirl. Swirl. Like, infuriating. And yeah, just the whole system. And we've in previous episodes about solving murders, it's so much frustrating stuff about just departments not talking to each other. All these things that crimes would have been solved so much easier. Cops are big on getting, like, their department to do it as well.

Like, yeah, they'll openly kind of hold it. Like, the- and I think was it BTK or one of them, a lot of it took slower because they just- Yeah, they just weren't- They didn't talk to each other. They just chat to each other about it. Yeah, which is- Man, talk to each other, please. And also stop murdering. Okay, jeez. Can we do one at a time?

Yeah. All right. Well, which one? Big one. Yeah. I'll do one as a New Year's resolution next year. Okay. So, yes, nothing comes of it. Things go quiet and the task force and the investigation sort of gets disbanded, gets put into the back burner in late 1990, written in November 1990. Of the task force being wound down, the big, biker looking cops have a racy, the

go the tats, said, this guy disappeared. Where is he? Is he dead? We don't know. And really, that's that piss me off, you know? Frankly, we don't want to know. Well, actually, we do want to know. Wait, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait. No, we do.

We do. We do. But people got away. People get away with murder. That's a good quote. But not the guys on my back. We got these guys and my wife Doreen. So he sticks around, but Cirovolo and Milanese, they both retire around this time. I reckon,

you know, it's full on, both of them are talking about it. Like it was kind of ruining their lives, their home lives and stuff. They were missing holidays. They weren't seeing their family that much. So yeah, everyone moved on to other things. That was until the 3rd of August, 1994. Oh my gosh. We were four. How old were you? 60? Oh, that is so sweet.

Ah. Ah. Ah. Ah. So on the 3rd of August, 1994, after nearly four years of silence, maybe just over four years. No, yes. Another letter was received.

Sergeant Joe Herbert, who in the Netflix show refers to himself as Porkchop. They call me Porkchop because I kind of like eating food. I'm also a pig. But he's like, he looks like a really average looking guy. And maybe he, I don't know, but the other guy's like, yeah, I still call him Porkchop. He's like way bigger than him in every, like taller and just a bigger guy. But anyway, you know, a bit of fun around the office. Yeah Hey, Pockchop. I quite like it as a nickname. Hey mashed potatoes You just had lunch. I bet you did you love to eat. I am fat. Yes

Okay Thanks guys. Okay I'm sad I'm Pockchop, but I'm sad so hit Pockch. I'm pork chop, but I'm sad. So pork chop, or Joe Herbert, he wasn't on the force in 1990, but he had followed the case pretty closely through the media. So he was pretty pumped to get the chance to have a crack at the case. Here's Herbert describing the letter.

On the right, he listed five incidents of violence. So the first thing that I do, I started to research the crimes that he was taking credit for. First one is from August the 10th. So this is the new letter going, hey, here's a bunch of crimes I did. Oh, wow. Yeah. You thought things had gone quiet? You'd forgotten about me? Well, I haven't forgotten about you.

I saw some clothes from the dry cleaner. How about that? Sorry, I ruined that by knocking over an empty glass. She want some water? And it send a shiver through my spine because I thought it was full. Now I'm all good. I pulled a gun. He pulled a gun on a book.

That's so funny. Well, I probably over-sourced that a bit. He, like, unclipped his thing and he went to hold it. Basically pulled it. Basically pulled his- I like the idea of pulling a gun on a book. Yeah. He'd hate Bookcheat. Oh, he'd hate it.

I'd be terrified of him. I'd be dead. That Bookcheat to him is like watching Mindhunter. It's just like, why are we- why are we glorifying these things? So, Herbert Porkchop. Porkchop Yeah. So Herbert Porkchop, he describes, and I like, cause he calls himself Porkchop. I think he's pretty apt with the nickname. So he says, so the first thing I do, I started to research the crimes that he was taking credit for.

First one is from August the 10th, 1992. Female, white, stabbed and shot in Highland Park. That was Patricia Fonte. That was the first woman victim. And this was totally different from the others. She was stabbed 100 times. What? And he said, we found no indication that she was shot, but she could have been.

There were so many marks on her body. Oh, God, that's so awful. Yes. I read somewhere that, like, so inconsistent, the different telling the story, but one place I read that it's thought she was shot, but she tried to wrestle him. So in a panic, he. Stabbed her a hundred times.

Yeah, which is, I'm starting to think this guy is insane. Like at a certain point. We are assuming it's a man, aren't we? Yeah. Good sexist. Yeah. Well, we've seen a sketch and I would say if that is a woman, no offence to large women with full facial hair. Yeah. Well, I will say that's a sketch of the person who asked about star signs.

Oh, so maybe he was just, what? Just curious. A travelling- We don't know. Yeah, maybe. A hundred is, and in no way am I glorified, that is a horrible thing that happened. But a hundred is, like, stabbed ten times and you're like, Oh, yeah. Like, you know, at a certain point you're like 73, 74, 75, 76.

So violent. 77, 78, 78. So that's the first one. Then there's Jim Webber. This is still with Porkchop. Jim Webber. The heir to the Webber dynasty. Yeah.

Barbecue King. Barbecue King. Yeah. Barbecue king. Barbecue king, yeah. The Zodiac shot him, then hopped the fence and fled into a nearby cemetery. Weber survived. Joseph Diaconi was a homeless individual. He was shot in the back of the neck and bled out. Instantly he died.

Diane Ballard was shot one time in the neck and she survived. And later became transitioned and turned into Tom Ballard. Tom Ballard, that's right. And then there was a fifth victim, 11th of June 1994. Porkdrop says, we did a very thorough search of the park, cadaver dogs, helicopters. We could not locate the victim. Two of them were homicides. Two were non-fatal. The NYPD was not able to connect the second series of attacks with the first series because there were over 2,300 homicides a year in the city in those days.

Yeah, so that- Sorry. So the night's claiming credit for a bunch of different- And that's the first we've heard from the killer in four years. Yes. Yeah. Hey, I've been busy. I've killed these people. And the cops are not they're like not sure. They're like, is it is it even the same person?

And it's like because now you do if it is a copycat, it's a copycat of a copycat. So at this point, it's like it's a photocopy of a photocopy. Yeah, but Bushka dolls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Or is it the killer just being like, I'm bored. I've seen these murders or things in the paper. I'm just going to claim that I did that too. That's true. Could just be claiming that, yeah, stabbed that lady.

Yeah. And it does have the vibe of, I have a similar thing of, um, I've killed several people, but the I'm not doing a tour this year. And when people ask me what I'm doing, I panic and go, I've been busy. I'm doing other things. I've been doing heaps. I'm still doing comedy. You're looking through the paper claiming other people's shows? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah've been doing heaps. I'm still doing comedy. And he's checking the sleep. You're looking through the paper claiming other people's shows? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, Hugh's kicking out those women from that show? That was me! That was me! Um, so, the note signs off by saying, quote, sleep, my little dead, how we loathe them. Does that ring any bells? Apparently that's a quote from Edgar Allan Poe. I want to wake up in the sun.

Oh, there's another part of the note that says NYPD 0 Zodiac 9 taunting them with a scorecard. Yeah. I mean, right. As in like they haven't killed anyone? Because yeah, I think that might feel a little odd. Yeah. If it's a kill count, they... Come on. They're going to win. And there's also... There's also this picture on there.

The first sort of... Oh, a little... Like playing solitaire. Yeah, I was like a little... I've seen houses as well. Oh, yeah. Yes. Little, like those little ceramic houses.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know what I mean? There's the score NYPD 0 Zodiac 9. Now, do we know about their birth signs, these people, these five newer victims? Yes. I think he hasn't doubled up for all but one, but he seems to be playing that up a lot less.

That's only found out later, but you know, when they look into all these victims. Yeah. But for some reason, this version of the guy, or if it's still the same guy, has changed his MO a bit. I mean, in four years he's like, I don't believe in that anymore. That was crazy. My new thing is just killing people around him. Yeah. And I've gotten into glass blowing. I don't know how I'm going to involve that in the murders yet, but just so you know, that's my hobby now.

Try and combine them later. According to the True Crime Database, the police released the letter to the public a week later and soon the city was gripped in a blind panic, fearing the return of the Zodiac. Detectives were hesitant to declare this newsletter the work of the New York Zodiac, suspecting it might have possibly come from a copycat. The Zodiac's totem pole code, which is what they started calling it, it sort of looks like that, it ended up being composed of international maritime signal flags.

Ah! Oh, what's that called? Semaphore. Semaphore. So someone noticed that and journalist Kieran Crowley from the New York Post decoded it with the help of his father-in-law, who was a veteran of World War Two and who had worked in signals, intelligence and cryptography. And when deciphered, the code apparently read, this is the Zodiac speaking.

I... Speaking. Was there a little pause there? Yeah. Ahoy, hoy. I don't know. I said, this is the Zodiac speaking. I am in control.

Who mastery be ready for more? Yours truly. Which I don't know if that like, I saw another version of it made more sense than that. It was basically saying, this is the Zodiac speaking. I'm in control, be ready for more yours truly. With love. Yeah, XOXO gossip girl.

Another task force was put together and they worked with the fingerprint again, checking more strategically. Porkchop was looking at certain zones that he called like the killer's areas of comfortability. And he had a bit of an overlap. So he was checking any crime, any criminals who were in those areas and working with the fingerprints in the doco is like I put my beeper on vibrate and I touched him. I didn't want my wife to wake up, but I knew it was going to go off. I knew they were going to find something and they didn't find anything. They, yeah, it never turned into any, you know, good theory, but it didn't come to anything. And yeah, the New York Zodiac, sadly and frustratingly,

would not be heard from again. The trial went cold and the second task force was also dismantled. The big barkey detective, Savaracy, later said, it felt just like deja vu. The second task force is over. It's winding down. Nobody, no perpetrator. That bothered me. That bothered me a lot, you know? I gave it the best I had, you know?

That's what they're paying me for. If I can't get you, good luck. Good luck? He really turned around in the end, didn't he? All the best. I really enjoyed that monologue. Yeah, I like the way he talks. Yeah. So he's fun. Like at the time in the 90s, he had like this sort of big curly mustache. Oh, my God. You know who else has a mustache? Potentially the killer. Oh, my God.

That's right. Oh, my God, that's- Oh my God. He was pointing at Matt. Yep. No, the sketch we saw. Yeah. In the doco from last year, he just had this huge white beard. Santa. Yeah, I think he's the Santa.

So I was like, I'm delivering toys, you know? That's what they pay me for. I got a picture of the Grinch on my back. Hey, here's a piece of coke, kid. Good luck. Herbert Porkchop took a career change and became a hostage negotiator, which by the by, I think his first job is worth mentioning because it lets us finish with a positive.

Can I quickly, does this mean it's a mystery episode? His first job's worth mentioning it because it lets us finish with a positive. Can I quickly- Does this mean it's a mystery episode? Yeah, you've gone early, but yeah, it's a mystery episode. Oh, my gosh, it's a mystery episode? Cut it out. Sorry, cut it out, AJ. Don't make it funny. Let's talk about Herbert's first job as a negotiator. I love it because he was, like, clearly really nervous about it. He's like, I want to do a good job.

As he gets on the phone to the hostage taken, he's like, hello, you can call me pork chop. Yeah. I like to eat. I like to eat. I'm your friend. I'm really, I'm quite an interesting person. Here's one of my very unique traits.

I eat like every day. Well, almost every day. All right. So this is, I'm gonna tell it from Herbert's point of view. It was June 18th, 1996. So there's a couple of years later from when we've left the story off.

He's trained himself up. He's finally ready. He's doing his first job. There was a hostage job in the seven five precinct. I was nervous because this was my first hostage negotiation job. An individual had shot his sister and is holding her boyfriend hostage.

They told me his name was Eddie. I'm saying, Eddie, we don't want you getting hurt. None of us want to get hurt, Eddie. This went on for an hour, an hour and a half. Finally says, I'm ready to surrender. I was proud as a peacock because the bosses, they were patting me on the back. Good job, all that stuff.

So I was very satisfied that I didn't blow it because they don't always go good. So now they're taking him back to the station house and I went back to the scene. The bomb squad had removed two pipe bombs fully constructed that he had in the apartment. So he saved lives probably. I'm at the scene. I'm talking to the bomb squad guys and three detectives came right to the corner here and they hand me the confession. Eddie confessed to shooting his sister, to holding his boyfriend hostage,

all wrapped up. And then Herbert notices something interesting about the confession. The handwriting. He'd know it anywhere. No. You wouldn't read about it. It's the bloody zodiac. What? I was tricking you. It isn't a mystery. What the heck? He's recognized the handwriting. Yeah. Oh, my God.

He says- That was such good acting. I can't tell if this is another double. No, me neither. You've just made up. You've been like, all right, I panicked. It's a mystery episode, it's not satisfying. And then his first job as the hostage taker was, yes, it's the killer. We got him everyone. Good night.

So this is what Herbert says. I actually had a physical reaction and it was kind of like my blood pressure went down like 40, 50 points. I shit my pants. He says it looks like my wife's shopping list. That's how familiar the lettering was. Hang on a second. Is his wife also involved? Yeah. Yeah, at first that you're like, what do you mean?

What's he written? Eggs, milk? No, he's just saying it's- he's so familiar with it. I know this so well. And I'd also be annoyed that I had to write my own confession, by the way. Yeah. I mean, especially if it leads to you getting done. Yeah, you wouldn't let- you'd dictate it at least. Yeah. If you know that you are kind of famous and not yet found for doing crimes,

where you taunt the cops with notes, I'd definitely be changing up the handwriting style. Imagine if it was written in like a like, I did the murder, the pipe bombs, pipe bombs. Yeah. One, two, pipe bombs. A pi. Pipe, pipe bombs. That's what he knew. The eye contact we just made. Pipe, pipe bombs. That's what he knew. The eye contact we just made. Pipe bombs.

Are we to believe that if Porkchop hadn't been involved, they wouldn't have noticed? Like, no one else would have picked up on the, holy shit. If it wasn't, it didn't, if it was someone else, it seemed like it, yeah. And he had bombs now. Wow. So you got to assume that people were going to die. Like he was going to have his third. Well he's clearly not good with a gun. Yeah. So Porkchop goes, the S's, the T's and the M's, you know.

I knew the handwriting from all the letters that I'd studied for the last two years working the zodiac case. That is so wild. I'm actually blown away. Yeah, me too. I kind of went to another place to think, because I was thinking how, what, like. Just like, yeah. Imagine that moment when you're looking at it, you're going like, this can't be.

Yeah. Kind of comparing it going, holy shit, holy shit. Am I insane? Am I noticing something that's not there? I'm losing my mind. Yeah. And apparently he calls the big bike guy, the first guy, because we got it. Like he calls him on the day, he's like, he knows it straight away. He was in the tattoo parlour.

Is that right? What does he look like? You said that, send him a photo. There's no time to subscribe him. So. Is Eddie the guy from the sketch? No, I don't know who that guy from the sketch is. He looks nothing like that. I think it was just the cop from Die Hard walking No, I don't know who that guy from the sketch is. He looks nothing like that. I think it was just the cop from Die Hard walking around trying to find out people's

star signs. He was working on a new character. Yeah. So was he a cop in Family Matters as well or just a dad? I think he was both. I think he might have just been a dad. Right. Yeah, because it was all set at home, wasn't it? Yeah. But he's also a dad in Die Hard.

So. Oh my God. Could be the same character. One note. So, yeah. Just so wild. That's insane. This is as Bono writes, after years of... Sunday. bloody Sunday. Yeah, what's the...

Was it Sunday? Sal Bono, this is. Sal Bono. Sal Bono. Sal Bono writes, after years of inactivity, a report of a domestic disturbance proved to be the undoing of the New York Zodiac. I mean, it was a pretty big domestic- Yes.

It was a murder. Domestic- It wasn't a murder, it was a shooting. Oh, he didn't kill that- That was his sister. But she didn't die. She didn't die. Oh, I don't know why I assume-

This guy is so bad at murdering. Yeah, I assume so that she was dead in the- in the apartment with him and that he was negotiating for the boyfriend's life. No, it was just- Yeah, he could have- Okay. So, he was about to be a domestic terrorist. Yeah. Like, he was negotiating for the boyfriend's life. No, it was just- Yeah, he could have- Okay, so he was about to be a domestic terrorist. Yeah. Like he was about to be a- Yeah, he was about to go up.

Like, I mean, there was a full on jump from the first to the second one with the stabbings and people dying instantly. So now I did five. Five attacks, yeah. Um, he loves pipes. You know, he made a- Like his zap gun. Is he a plumber? know, he made a like his zap gun. Is he a plumber? He's a plumber. It's Mario.

We're still trying to solve who it is, isn't it? We've arrested it. It's Wario. Yeah, this is more Wario's vibe. Yahoo! This is what Salbono writes. On a hot day- so yeah, the domestic disturbance is what was his undoing. On a hot June day in 1996, Gladys Reyes was shot in the back by her brother, Roberto Eddie Cedar in their shared Brooklyn home.

Reyes escaped home and fled to a neighbor's house where she called the police. Reyes' boyfriend was still trapped in the home with Cedar but managed to barricade himself in a bedroom. And by the way, so this is what the New York Zodiac looks like. Oh. There's nothing at all like that description. Nothing at all. He's kind of handsome. Worth getting a tattoo of? Like on your chest or something. Oh, yeah. A real centrepiece.

I mean, he could get the tattoo this time because he's actually been involved in this case at least. Yeah, yeah. And there's him getting taken away by the bikey dude and the pork chop. We're going straight to the tattoo parlor. I need you to sit down and do a sit-in. How old was he? Oh, still. He was in his 20s.

And this is like six years or five years after the first? Yeah, so he started early 20s, I think. And what's his vibe now? So he'd be like 50 something. I mean, no, 60. I don't think it would be in his 50s. You mean, Vibe, you want to know what he looks like now? Oh, you know, has he has he gotten like fit in jail?

He is apparently like, I don't, the only place I've seen, he's on the Wikipedia page, which I don't know what it is. I think some sort of database of- Yeah, what is Wikipedia? I hear it mentioned on here sometimes. Like in the grass. I hear it mentioned on here sometimes, I can never grasp. But apparently, he had a sexual affair in prison with Cynthia China Blass, a transgender woman who is serving a sentence for gang-related murder. Cool.

Is that the, when you say vibe? What? You know, he's clearly, you know, he's got a diverse group of friends. Do they? Do they? I mean, do they- do they put out updated photos of- I mean, yeah, if they're like, like a kind of TV week style prison magazine. Where are they now? Yeah.

Oh, we know where they are. Where we left them last. That's the name of the segment. Where we left them last. Where is their jawline now? Yeah. Basically, I just want to know if he's still hot. Anyways. But yes, he started so young.

So, yeah. So, the sister calls the cops. The cops come. That's when you have the standoff with Herbert. Did she make a coffee first? She obviously would have made a coffee first with the, you know, the wound in her back. He shot a lot of his victims in the back. Bono continues. When police entered his home, they found a cache of weapons, which included bombs and zip guns.

Former assistant DA Ananya said, those two letters, the fingerprints they retrieved from both of those matched each other. They knew it was the same person. Years went by and they were always trying to match those fingerprints with the fingerprint from whoever they arrested. It was really exciting. It was like Cinderella. It was like the shoe finally fit after all these attempts to try and find him. It was really exciting. It was like Cinderella. It was like the shoe finally fit after all these attempts to try and find him. It was so romantic. I love the terms they've put it in there. As news quickly spread that the New York Zodiac was arrested and in police custody,

more came out about Cedar's history. This is still from Inside Edition. Eddie was basically just a loser, Beeson told Inside Edition. He's the one who- That's got to hurt when you hear that. He couldn't kill more than two people his whole career as a serial killer. What a loser. Remember Beeson's the one who's dedicated the life to the California- Oh, trying to big up the mysterious one.

This guy's a loser. Why are we even talking about him? We love our one. Beeson goes on, he got kicked out of school for carrying a gun to school when he was 16 years old. He wanted to be a Green Beret. He joined the army and fortunately did not get past their psychological test to get into the army. Well, who knows what would have come? Because if he did get in the army, I'm sure he would have actually been able to acquire some real weapons later on.

Damn. Yeah, that's pretty good. The New York Times published... I'm going to read a chunk from a New York Times article that was published later that week, reporting that he said to someone, to a cop who didn't want to be named, he said to them that, why did you kill him? And he said, because they were evil. So he was a reclusive man obsessed with guns and the Bible. He admitted to slaying three people

and wounding five others in two calculated waves that bound many New Yorkers in a fitful terror. And he became known as the Zodiac Shootings, police officials said yesterday. The stunning admission to the twin crime sprees, one during a compressed period in 1990 and the second from 92 to 94, apparently closes one of the city's most notorious unsolved cases. During four hours of interrogation, the police said, he admitted those crimes as well as the latter attacks. Until yesterday, the police said,

they never knew with firm conviction whether the two deadly rampages were actually the work of a single person. And they wondered actually the work of a single person. And they wondered if the- Or a married person. Could have been a divorce, eh? Sounds like it. And yeah, they they were starting to wonder if he would ever be caught. Heriberto Cedar, 28, who was arrested Tuesday in Brooklyn after shooting his half sister

and engaging in a gun battle with hundreds of police officers. Hundreds? Hundreds. With a zip gun, a spud gun. He was portrayed yesterday as a withdrawn man, smitten with weaponry and the teachings of the Bible and who preached damnation to drug dealers. Apparently that was one of the reasons he was so upset with his half sister. She was getting involved in some people who are in the drug scene and stuff.

I guess that's why he was trying to protect her. That's why he shot her in the back. Yes. Can't do drugs with a bullet in your back. I hope so, until you get to the hospital and they give you morphine. They will pop you right up. Get the good stuff. Yeah.

Two years ago, the police seemingly came within a whisker of linking Mr. Cedar to the Zodiac shootings when he was arrested on a weapons possession charge. So they did him for having a zip gun and his fingerprints would then have been routinely sent to Albany to be compared with prints stored in a statewide fingerprint identification system. But six days later, before the full set of fingerprints were mailed, the case was dismissed and the fingerprints destroyed." Because they're like, oh, this gun's fault doesn't really work anyway.

So the case was dropped. God, he's such a loser, his gun doesn't even work. And that's why he got away with it. And apparently that gun was the gun that had been used in previous attacks. Oh my God. The New York article continues. I did promise a Giuliani reference. In announcing the arrest, Mayor Rudolph W.

Giuliani profusely praised the police department yesterday and declared that the latest arrest, quote, gives the victims and their families a sense of justice that helps the healing process. Remember when he was like, he was like seen as a real beacon of something. He was the mayor of America, that's what we used to call him. And it was just because something happened when he happened to be mayor. Anyways. The article continues, late last night, detectives searched this house, removing four large paper bags full of evidence, including books, magazines, newspaper articles and a bow and arrow, which- Evil. Well, that'll really piss off Cervaisy.

They pull a gun on the bookshelf. Not Cervaisy, sorry, Melancy. Oh my God, books! Get in the bag. Get in the bag. Nice and easy now. They're dead. It's got all these dead books in his mouth. So spooky.

You know, like there's that sort of a trope where Bible, a Bible will save someone's life with a bullet through it. Yeah. And the cop's like, no, I wasn't trying to shoot you. Yeah. I hit the target. A guy in my family was a cop and he got shot and it stopped in his wallet through a picture of his family. Holy shit.

Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Oh my God. That is some good quality paper they printed it on. Yes. Yeah. Was that 300 GSM?

Yeah. Wow. No, it was just that the one with the holes on the side of the dot printer. But it was just layered. Sorry, it was a dot- it was a dot picture of his family. But yeah, true story. That is incredible. Oh yeah, they found a bow and arrow, but the police said it had never been used.

He couldn't work out of it. What do I do with this thing? He's trying to get spuds on it. Where do I spray the deodorant? Inside his room were more than a dozen plastic models of military equipment, including Cobra attack helicopters and aircraft carriers and assorted gun magazines, including a Remington catalog and a gun parts catalog. There were also basketball trading cards, G.I. Joe comic books, a magician parts catalog. There were also basketball trading cards, G.I. Joe comic books, a magician's kit

and several pornographic videotapes. All right. So he's still kind of cool. Yeah, he's got he's got cool hobbies. Yeah. I'm not against like three to four of those things. He's still kind of cool. He's practicing magic at home. There's things that I could talk to him about. He's so carnival. He's practising magic at home. There's things that I could talk to him about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which is this card? Which is your card? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which is this card? He's got a bit of practice. This is card. Which is this card? He doesn't know the symbols yet. This is what it looks like. He's trying to be the zodiac. New zodiac killer.

He doesn't know the symbols. I mean, some people call it a club. I don what it looks like. He's trying to be the Zodiac, the new Zodiac killer. He doesn't know his symbols. I mean, some people call it a club. I don't really see it. No, it's more like a clover. But so no Zodiac stuff. Like as in no astrology stuff. No, it doesn't seem like it.

But he did. He did apparently see a documentary about the Californian Zodiac killer killer and he, you know, he quite liked how he annoyed the cops and he was sort of. Hey, game recognises game. And he kind of, he hated, he liked astrology the first few killings, but then when he came back it was gone. Do you reckon he discovered porn by that time? Yeah.

Oh yeah. He doesn't hardly care about that shit anymore. I think videotapes were more of a thing by that point as well. Yeah, so it's easier to get his hands on the good stuff. It was real to real first time around. So, yeah, apparently he had so many weapons, filled three buckets with homemade zip guns and the bombs and stuff. This is such a vague term. Having the bucket of guns.

He had three buckets of guns. I'm picturing like a, like, what do you call it? A feast. What do you call it? Like, I've never been in KFC, but like, do they have a big bucket? Oh, yeah. Do they have a feast bucket? I've never seen the buckets in Australia. Did they have them?

Oh, yeah. He had a bucket. Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. Should we split a bucket after this? Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering when I'll have diarrhea in a couple of days. Confirmed. How would I get it? I do love it though. Yeah. Some people get a colonic.

Yeah. I just eat only skin from the chicken. I peel all the skin off the chicken. Colonel colonic. Yeah. I reckon this is my favourite quote from the article, the New York Times article from the week of the arrest. He was very religious, the detective said. He kept talking about Jesus and good and evil and salvation, but he never explained how he made his jump from a Roman Catholic upbringing to a Zodiac serial killer.

Just get to the good bit. Well, I kind of think that's your job, isn't it? As the cop. Can't. To explain that. It's like they keep walking out, can't he? He's not a good storyteller. There's like, there's no second act here.

I wouldn't describe it as a tight five. I'll quickly run through Bono talks about the trial. Sorry, which one is this? Oh, sorry, there's a little Bono again. Yeah, yeah. In June on- I first met the trial. Sorry, which one is this? Oh, sorry, this is Bono again. Yeah, yeah. In June- I first met the edge. I first met you.

Bono McCartney? Yeah, I know, I realised as I was saying it, I don't know how to do it. Irish is hard. Irish is hard. Irish is hard. I first met the edge. I said, yeah, I'm gonna be da-da-da-da-day.

Well, maybe it's not that hard. There we go, there you go. Yahoo! So Bono, so, writes, in June 1998, Cedar, and I've said his name different every time, apologies for that, he wanted to be famous. I don't even know how to pronounce his name, you know? Zing.

Yeah, that'll show up. Cop that. Cedar was convicted of three murders and one attempted murder after a six week trial in Queens. This is an interesting thing to me. It sounds like they had to do separate trials for the Brooklyn ones and the Queens ones. He was sentenced 83 years in prison for those Queens ones. And he was also convicted in a separate trial in Brooklyn a year later of eight attempted

murders, with several of those charges being connection to his attack on his sister and the fight with the cops. So he's going getting done for that as well. And he was sentenced to 152 years in that case. Oh, because I was thinking like it was just the first, but he's only got 50 years to go. Yeah, he could. That's fine. There's a chance for, you know, if you wait long enough, you get to meet him.

150 years on top of the 80. Yeah. Modern medicine, though. It's true. It's true. In a hundred years, I marry the New York serial killer. We'll have to have you back on, I assume we'll still be doing the podcast? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll all be heads in jars.

Guys, I did it. Lived out your dreams. Reese, we don't remember what we talked about last week. Anyway, this guy killed. Well, no, he didn't kill as many people. You come like, check it out, it happened, I did it. What? This is going to be the best.

They're going to love this. It's a look. It's a long time to wait for a joke to pay off, but. You're committed. Bono continues, while trying the case in Brooklyn, dealing with Cedar. So because so this is why I've been quoting from the assistant DA, Ananya, a bit. She was, you know, she was there at the trial. Dealing with Cedar was like dealing with the weather, she said.

Okay, wet sometimes. She never knew what she was gonna be working with or against that day. I think she works with or against the weather. He decided he would come to court whenever he felt like it. And so there were days sometimes he didn't show up. So we would just be trying the case without him sitting there, she recalls.

As he was walking out of the courtroom after one day's proceedings, he walked by the judge. And the next thing he knew, he started running up the steps towards the judge on the bench. And we were all like, oh my God. And the court officers just tackled him and brought him down. He had some deep rooted anger in him, she says. In total, Cedar was sentenced to 232 years in prison. Now 56. This article was written last year, so he's 57, I guess. He remains incarcerated in the Clinton Correctional Facility in Danemora,

New York. Do they have an email address for this? I don't have one here, but I'm sure we can check one out. Having experienced a number of failures and setbacks in his life, Cedar is believed to have been motivated to kill by the desire to be known. But as Beeson notes, his crime spree is often eclipsed by more famous ones of the other Zodiac killers. Beeson of course is the real hero of the... I hope that's right. I've really been hammering that home if it's not... Either way, Beeson says, this final thought,

I'll leave it with Beeson. I think he was just looking for an excuse to attack anybody. And it was about creating a name for himself, even though he wasn't even original enough to come up with his own name. So he wasn't even original enough to come up with his own name. So he wasn't even original there. Isn't that funny? That is such a borderline explanation of so many people we work with in this industry. They just wanted to kill to be known. And they didn't even-

And they couldn't even do that. Couldn't even come up with their own on stage persona. That's why we're all doing race. Well, that was very- Well, wild story, right? That is wild! And a great fake out. Really good. I wrote that was a mystery episode and then that chance thing happened. I can't believe it. You'd be spewing if you were the killer, but it's obviously good to get some justice and take him off the streets because he had the pipe bombs. It is good.

It is good that he got arrested in the end. I agree, Dave. But yet no one has suggested that. That is not in the hat. Really? And I've put it up for the vote, I reckon, five times and it comes second. Mate, take a hint. No one wants to hear that story.

I'm like, it's a good story. It's wild. I've looked into it and it's pretty crazy. Yeah, they should take the hint. No one wants to hear that story. I'm like, it's a good story. Honestly, I've looked into it and it's pretty crazy. Yeah, they should take the hint. Yeah. Why does he keep putting it up for it? I'm glad he did, because that is a wild story. I'd never heard of it at all. Yeah, and I like it.

It's a semi-sequel to episode 64. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a- not a full reboot, but maybe like- it's like the Han Solo movie. Yeah. It's within the same universe. Yeah. You've zeroed in on a character. Yeah, he was younger or whatever. And not quite as good as the original, but still pretty good. I liked it. I thought Solo was fine, wasn't it?

I watched it on a plane. I watched it on a plane as well, and I find- I like them all. I'm just happy to see Donald Glover in a cool outfit. Yeah. For once. That was your joke. That was... Yeah. And I said it. Yeah. I'm sorry about that.

AJ, can you edit that out? Keep it in. The guest decides. I'll do the edit. I'm just going to upload it. Reese's a tree. You're doing a podcast now? Good. Thank you. I do a podcast. It're doing a podcast now? Good, thank you. I do a podcast, it's called FWENDS.

It is with me, my husband, Kiren, and our friend, Georgia Mooney. And it's on its third rebrand. Well, it started off as a movie podcast during the pandemic. Georgia had Covid, long Covid, and she was in Sydney and we would zoom with her and watch movies and then we'd talk and we did all of the Marvel movies and then we did all of, like, just watched a lot of movies in different universes. And then we decided we'd make a podcast just about friendship, because we have a weird friendship where Kiron and I are married and have been together for a long time.

But just before we got together, Kiren and Georgia were together. So that creates an interesting- And now Georgia and the- we're like kind of best friends. We were- it was a tense start to our friendship. It sounds like to me you've got one link left in that chain. Yeah. Oh, you know, we're gonna- we're gonna root. But is that what you meant? Yeah, I guess.

But the podcast is, yeah, Friends, where we every week we interview an interesting slash famous person about their friendships. Do you do you let them know which one they are? That's how we start. We're like, and of course, this week is an interesting person episode. Tune in next week for a famous one. Do you ever try and get one whose buzz? That's not possible. No, they don't exist.

Yeah. That's our white whale. The unicorn, yes. But we ask each- we ask people there to tell us about their first friend, their fastest friend, their former friend and their forever friend. And it's kind of- it's a little bit of a we like hearing people being able to talk about their like childhoods and stuff. It's basically just it's just a chatty podcast. But, you know, the next one that we've got coming out is Sarah Blasco.

And then we've got the one before that with Ryan Shelton. Like, it's quite a mixed group of people, but it's fun. Listen to it. Fwends. I love it. Fwends. Fwends. And then the first 20 minutes of every episode is kind of us just shooting the shit. Being actual Fwends. Being actual Fwends. Yeah. Because she lives in London, so it's kind of the only ways that we can catch up with her as well.

But yeah, have a listen. We like it. Is that a good self? Yes. It is. So like, Maya. Maya, we like it. But thank you so much for having me on. Thanks so much for being on. Great story.

I enjoyed it. There were genuinely times that I forgot that I was on the podcast because I was listening to the podcast and then I was waiting for Jess to cut in and I was like, oh, wait, no. I'm the Jess. I'm Jess. So good. And you're going to be on our 500th episode. Yes. Big theatre show.

So excited. Bit of fun. So excited. What is that? Is that show- is there lots of guests? Oh, yes. And you're the first one I guess. I think we're announcing now then. Oh. Yeah, we've got a series of-

Series. And is it we- some of us, we come out for a minute and then leave? Or is it a- No, we haven't. I'll stop talking about this because I feel like you haven't announced it. No, us, we come out for a minute and then leave, or is it a- I'll stop talking about this because I feel like you haven't announced it. No, we're working it out, but you maybe you'll come out, do a magic trick. Oh, this is your card. So, the very aggressive magician. This is your card. And then you shoot a homemade gun and then you're out.

It's something to do with the episode that you've been on previously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, this makes sense for you. Yeah, yeah. Wow. But now I'm very excited about it. I think where we think it'll be more like you just come and sit and we talk about a topic, but while you're doing magic. While I'm doing magic. Yeah. You're doing magic like- Pen and Teller are going to be there and we have to fool them.

You got to do it in a way that only the live audience is being entertained by it and it won't affect us being able to release it as a podcast. Yes, you can't distract us because we've got to be talking about- Don't distract us. Don't, you can't say anything about your Matt. You can still talk about what we're talking about. Yeah. But on Mike you can't. So you might hear just off Mike me talking to one of the members being like,

is this your car? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, so remember this car. Ace of clubs. Ace of clubs is what I just said said I need to work on my magic. No, that's good. I think that's really good stuff. Well, yeah, thank you very much for having me on.

Ace of clubs is a thing. No, it's not. Oh, no. Is it? Yeah, it is. I thought it wasn't, but it is. I thought you were being like out of all the suits. That's the lowest one.

Yeah, but I was also picturing a heart as the ace. Yes, me too. Yeah. But I was also picturing a heart as the ice. Yes. Me too. Yeah. Oh, no. I'm mad. You're the man of the show now. You stick around.

You want to be the Jess, but everyone ends up becoming the Matt. Yeah. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. It's been so fun. This has been a real treat. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

And I guess I'll, this will be one of the only episodes in a long time that I won't listen to. I can't listen to myself. No, yeah. 100%. No, no, no, no, no. Nice to meet you, AJ. Even though I haven't met you, but I'm meeting you in recording.

Well as we say goodbye to Reese. Goodbye, Reese. We actually, I mean, we stopped briefly and walked them out. But as we say goodbye to Reese, we say hello to everyone's favourite section of the show. Hello to everyone's favourite section of the show. I can't stop. I can't stop. That was, hopefully that was a fun episode. It was, it was a unique experience because Dave normally is just the report giver who has self-doubt about the episode. But when there's a guest and a report writer, we both got to, and, and, and Reese and I

both needed you to say, no, that was okay. It was good, no, because the catchphrase of the report giver is always, was that any good? Which we all have said hundreds of times each at this point, because when you're in the report, you kind of like feel like you're stopping the fun a lot of the time. But obviously it's a big part of the show, it's doing the report, very important part. And Rhys, so funny in everything they do. But it's like, I don't know, was that anything? And I was like, yeah, you were so funny.

Reese is so funny. You're always so funny. And- So I really, really thank Reese. So cool to have them on as well. Real pleasure. And as Reese was leaving said, well, that'd be the first episode I don't wanna listen to.

Yes, and we understand you don't love listening back to yourself, which is why we've brought in a beautiful AJ to edit these things. So we don't have to listen back to ourselves. Drivel on. But anyway, what is this section, Matt? What are we here for? Well, this is where we thank our supporters who make the show possible. They do so at, what is it?

Patreon.com slash do go on pod. That's right. Patreon.com slash do go on pod. And's right. Patreon.com slash do go on pod. And people go there, sign up on various levels, support the show. This is what keeps the lights on, keeps the mics on, keeps the recording on, et cetera. Hey, but everyone listening is also doing that. But these people do it a little bit more, you know, in a different way. In a different way. Absolutely. Because one thing they get is ad-free listening. Oh yeah. So I don't have to put up with any of the ads.

They also get bonus episodes we put out for a month and there's over 250 in the back catalogue that you get access to straight away. They are there forever. So you can absolutely jump on that. You hear about live shows before anyone else. What if there's some sort of critical issue with storage? Gosh, which we are facing yet again once in our Google Drive. So is that what was on your mind?

Or if there's some sort of nuclear war. Yeah. So I'm just saying nothing's forever. Okay. Nothing's forever. But at the time of recording, you get access to the full back. There's no plans to get rid of any of that. But like nuclear war, we don't control that.

Do you control that? No. Hopefully that pause wasn't too long. And you also get to vote for topics, so you get to decide what the show is all about. And also- Like, yeah, listeners, like I was saying, listeners on multiple occasions chose to vote against the one we did today. Exactly, and no one wants to suggest this topic, but you also get part of the, you also

get access to the Patreon Facebook group, which is a beautiful part of the internet. You might be thinking, Facebook, I haven't used that in years. Well, let me tell you, it's worth getting on there again just to be in this beautiful group. So supportive and lovely. Oh, my God, I just pulled off Dave's head. It was Zuckerberg all along. That's right. You got zooked.

Honestly, don't sign up to Facebook because of our site. That would that would not make me feel good. But if you happen already be on there and you want it to be better, you want to be improved, we'll do that for you. Now, they're all fantastic things. But another thing people get involved in, if they are on the Sydney Schomburg level, Memorial Rest in Peace package level or above, you get to be involved in the fact quota question, which is a section of the show that goes, has a jingle, that goes something like this.

Fact quota question. Dong. Dong, here always remembers the dong. And you always remember the song. Oh sorry. Sorry. Yeah, that's something we're trying to say. Yeah, that's off-post. Cut it out, Dave.

Too many hits from the bong. I'm almost bubbling away. We call you bloody Cypress Hill over there. So this one, yeah, you get to give us a fact-quote, a question or a brag or a suggestion, or really whatever you like. And I read them out. You also get to give yourself a title. I don't read them out before we read them out.

So there's no quality control. I didn't mean all that. But there doesn't need to be. I mean, no quality control on my pronunciations is what I'm saying. That's right. There's no rehearsal. The first one comes from Jessie, aka guy who hopes his boss doesn't listen to the pod. Well, let's bleep out the surname there, AJ.

What do you think about that? You think it's a nominative determinism, like they're napping at work? Is that what the worry is there? Well, actually, also, Jesse would have thought of this. So I'm just don't. Yeah, you probably don't have to worry about that, AJ, because I think Jesse, if needed, probably already put in a fake name. Un-bleep it, AJ.

The first one comes from Jesse Napper, AKA, guy who hopes his boss doesn't listen to the pod. You get to write if it's a fat quarter question or whatever. And Jesse's written, last news slash question. Wow. Writing, howdy all, wow, what a great episode this has been. I agree, that's what I told recent Matt, they wouldn't listen.

I can't believe that twist at the end. Oh my God, that is made. I'm about to pull my gun out. Shoot the podcast. Is someone watching this? Congratulations to Matt. It says insert report writer's name here. On writing, what is by far the best report I've ever heard? You've always been my favourite report writer. That means a lot actually, Jesse. I think the other two have a lot to learn from you. Hey, we are, well, I'm here, Jess will never hear this, but I'm here. And you're here to learn. I'm here to learn. Thank you for pointing out the error of my ways.

I'm here to share some wonderful news about my life. I got engaged. Air horn, air horn. Congratulations. My beautiful now fiance, Holly, Holly, was kind- Oh my god, is the thing about the boss Holly's your boss's wife? Listen to me. You're engaged to the boss's wife. I hope my boss hasn't heard. Uh oh.

Uh. Boss's mum. Holly was kind enough to say yes, which makes me so happy. That's such a funny way to phrase it. She is by far the best thing that's ever happened to me. And I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with her. We've decided to elope without any of our friends or family present, which our parents weren't stoked to hear,

but it's how we want to do it. Like the Fast Movers we are, we got engaged on the 30th of January and we already have our elopement date set for March 15th. So we'll probably already be married by the time this is read out. You are already married. Congratulations.

Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. They're airhorns. AJ put them in after. That's why they sound so good. Oh my God. I forgot I'm the man of a thousand noises. Let me do them. AJ, you don't need to. Okay.

Yeah, they're better than AJ's. And what made that even better was you're doing like, sort of like, like triggers, like your finger gun. Like I know you think you look like you were probably pulling an air horn, but it did look like you were like Rambo two machine guns. Yeah, yeah. That's what my spud gun sounds like. They've got air horns attached. So we'll probably already be married when the time is read out. On top of that, we've decided to move from Sydney to New Zealand in June.

Wow, this is a big life step. This is the thing. I haven't told work this yet, so I really hope my boss doesn't listen to the pod. Sorry for hoping someone doesn't listen to the pod. What you should do, Jesse, is tell them to listen in your resignation letter. Put a hyperlink in there, in a written letter. I'm so excited and slightly scared for the big move.

My fiancee Grup Ware will be moving, so she knows the error very well, which will be helpful for me. With all these big changes in the next four months, I might need to disappear from the Patreon until I'm all settled. I hear getting married and moving countries is quite expensive. Well, I don't think it is if you're moving from Sydney to New Zealand, you might, you might all of a sudden go, geez, I got cash off the bloody wazoo.

Rent's a lot cheaper. Sydney was just famously very expensive city to live in. Yeah, I don't think New Zealand's cheap, but I just think Sydney is like one of the most expensive places in the world. Outrageous. And with good reason. The beautiful harbour, the beautiful beaches.

Oh my god, you pay for those views. Yes. There's a tax on your eyes. Yeah. But I'll be back. Look at me talking about myself so much. What good news, big or small, do you have? Thank you and see you on the New Zealand tour. Thank you so much, Jesse. Congratulations. Congratulations to you and Holly. Dave, do you have any big news? I don't, I don't think. Um. I don't know if I have any small news.

I guess small news, I was stoked that we were asked to do the Do Go On the Quiz Show at the Festival Club. Oh yeah. After going, cause it is a nightly after party after the comedy, it's another late show and I've been going there for years and I've never performed there before and now we get to do our own show there and just being asked to do that was- Oh, Dave, never performed there. I know, Matt, you've been there many, many times.

Oh, Davey boy. Oh, kiddo. Oh, one day. Kiddo. I've been looking up to my hero, Matt Stewart, for many years. You've never been- even in your bands? No, that's- I've never- and that's the other thing, it's that- it used to be called the Hi-Fi Bar, now it's called Max Watts, but growing up, that was like a great, like, club, music club to see live bands.

I saw heaps of stuff there when I was in school and in uni. I saw Dada Rock there. I saw, uh, Coheed and Cambria. We were there the same night, which we worked out 20 years later. I saw the- yeah, I saw what's Matt Skiba's band. Why am I remembering his name and not his band? Complaint. Oh no.

I saw Taking Back Sunday, Bright Eyes, Atreyu. People are yelling at their iPods right now. Many bands. Alkaline Trio. Alkaline Trio, of course. That's right. Cause he filled in for, well, filled in, he was a member of Bignette too for quite a few years there too.

Yes, that's right. And I saw, who was it? Dragon Force there. Oh, wow. And I saw Tism there. And yeah, like it's, you know, it's one of those big venues. Yeah, that's a bit iconic and to be doing a quiz show. So that felt like a little victory a few weeks ago, a little thing to celebrate.

Anything from you? Um, I... No, I don't. I mean, can I claim that one too? Nothing's really coming to mind. Yeah, you know, I'm going to a family wedding this weekend and I need to get ahead of this question because it's, you know, small talk with family, you see, every couple of years. Not most of them, you know, a lot of my family, I see a bunch, but some of them, you know, you say standard family and really did necessarily to talk about.

And that's the question. Oh, what's been happening? Oh, so you need something. Yeah. So can I say, I might say that and they'll be like, Oh, good on you. How much does it, does it, doesn't sound like anything to anyone outside, but well inside our little world, this is a cool thing to do.

Well, good on you. Good on you. Why don't you say that you just got engaged to Holly and you move into New Zealand? Oh, fantastic. They'll think that's big. I'll say don't tell my boss. Thank you, Jesse. Congratulations once again.

That's awesome news. Next one comes from Michaela McCray, aka Collectibles Enthusiast with a question. Hello, today my coworker came across a $1 coin with a vanilla slice design. I love seeing cool coins and where possible I will save them and pass them on to my team. It got me thinking, if you could each design a fancy coin, what would it look like and what face value would it be? I, and we always ask if you ask a question, if you can answer it, that'd be fantastic. Please.

Michaela says, I'll put a wedge-tailed eagle design on a 50 cent coin as heavy as they are. I love them. The best coin to put in those big vortex donation tins, because they don't roll. It's a 50 cent roll, yeah. Yeah, they are. It's a great shape. What are they? Dodecahedron? Isn't this an octagon?

No, it's got heaps. Doesn't it have heaps of sides? Oh, no. Decahedron is 10, isn't it? What is a dodecahedron? I think I learned that word from the Simpsons. That's like a- Lisa taught it to Magneto. A 3D.

Oh. Well, it's not that. 50. You look it up. Okay. 50 cent piece shape. I put a wombat. And you've already taken 50 cent piece.

It is a dodecagon. So 12. Oh, so I was sort of in the- I was in- Yeah, absolutely. In the world. So what was your- you'll say again. What, what? So yeah, you get to design a coin. Yeah. What are you thinking?

I'm thinking wombat on the $2 coin. Wombat. Just the $2 coins, a little chunky. No, but maybe the dollar coin. The dollar coin's pretty great. It's the biggest of the gold coins. Yeah. Put a big, just one big wombat front on.

Front on. You know what I mean? Yeah. Front on design. What's up? I mean, we're bumping off the kangaroos, off the dollar coin, just for a one-off. I'm doing this like a special edition. This is special.

Yeah. Because they are, yeah, special coins do come out. Like I've got my lucky $2 coin that I use for, if I go shopping and eat the trolley. Oh yeah. It's a possum magic. Oh, it's got it's colourful rainbow. It's colourful. Beautiful.

Oh, that's fun. What I put on there, maybe. It's got to be a pie, right? It's already the shape of a coin. I think it's got to be a pie. You're right. Has to be a pie. And then do I get to take the king and the queen off the other side? Do they have to be on there?

Well, I think it's your coin. You'd put the base of the queen off the other side or do they have to be on the other side? Well, I think it's your coin. You'd put the base of the pie on the other side. Yeah. Top. Could you design a coin that becomes like a 3D pie? Like a thin 3D pie. Yeah, thin crust. Yeah.

That'd be pretty sick. And I'd probably do... That's a currency I would respect. I'd probably go the 20% because that's the largest round one. That's a great call. I'm gonna go for that. That's a big pie. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Michaela. Interesting question, I like it a lot. Next one comes from Drew Forsberg, aka Plaster of Muppets. And- That's funny. Bit of fun. Drew's question is, maybe this issue has been addressed one way or the other, but my searches haven't resulted in any new news on the subject.

And I'm simply very curious about the status of Listen Now. Okay. I'm glad I'm here to field this one. I'll take this one. If this is a bad place to ask about, I do apologize. Well, I'll see Sam at this wedding on the weekend. Oh, perfect. So this could be a good opportunity.

The main problem, I'll say- So what you on the weekend. Oh, perfect. So this could be a good opportunity. The main problem I'll say- So what you said, listen now is your music podcast? Yes, it's probably the smallest of the pods in the Do Go On pod family. But those who listen love it. That's right. And I love making it. The main issue was that Sam moved from the Moorabbin-ish area

Main issue was that Sam moved from the Moorabbin-ish area where we grew up, which is already quite a while from the studio to even further away. Damn. And it just has been, it's like it would be like, you know, you're almost like planning a weekend to do it. We just haven't got around to it, but I think we should be able to, the setup at the studio now here means that Zoom or, you know, doing them via satellite. It's much easier now, isn't it? It's doable, as also Trumbully Bertrand might say. So I really should get onto it. I'm just doing like my burst, a little burst of Prime Mates episodes. So I really wish you were asking about that. I could give you good news.

But yeah, I think we're about three years since last episode, which was halfway through a countdown. You and I actually recorded the next episode. Has that ever come out? No, I don't. I wonder if it's on this in on the studio computer. I'm not sure. That's why we covered one of the albums. We recorded the old studio.

It was in the other studio. Yes. I don't know if it's still survived or not, but I should try and find out. I remember enjoying the album. Because for a little while I was like, oh, maybe Sam was like, you can just have fill ins for me. But it would be nice to have her back to finish it off. Yeah. And we both saw Cold Chisel late last year, which we were intending to do an episode about. There was some discussion about-

Oh, and I had a beer with the harmonica player, David Blatt, in Adelaide. Because does he own the- or work at the brewery? He was playing a show there. He's just a regular there. He's a regular. That's right. You mentioned him on Be A Pioneer. Yeah.

Oh, did I? Yeah, so good. That maybe he regularly goes in? Or maybe he just told me off part- I don't know. He's- It's the place of their Golden Gate time. Yes, that's right. Exactly.

Oh, and what was it like? Tell us all about it. Oh, it was lovely. We had a quick chat, told him, loved seeing him play and yeah. But and they played a great set of covers of this and that, but they were really awesome. Me and Saran had a good time there. That was the day that we went. Late that night, we recorded a Prime Mates episode.

Nice. Which was a bit messy. I think the episode's called Seven Degrees of Monkey or something like that. All right. Anyway, this message from Drew continues, I just want to know if season two is ever going to continue. Yes, I commit that I will, we will finish it. I've enjoyed being exposed to so many new artists and songs by this pod that it's been a real blessing for me. Even if that reads as a tad dramatic. Anywho, I hope that season two, a deep dive on the most requested rock albums from the eighties is not on permanent vacation.

No, I would definitely, we definitely will finish it. Even if Sam can't, I'll do it by myself. But I think Sam will figure out a way to do it. If the episode this is being read on is a Jess, Dave or guest episode, I apologize for giving you a question you can't answer. And hence, I will give you this backup question, all right, Dave, is for you. Okay. Thank you. What is your favorite Hunters and Collectors song? Mine is Do You See What I See. A little twist on the classic Warney Coldplay question.

Gosh, that's a great song, Do You See What I See. Yes, I love the slab. Well, I'm just going through now just to make sure I don't miss any When the River Runs Dry, that's a runs dry. Yeah, that's a good song. Uh, and of course the classic, throw your arms around me, holy grail. Cause I, I think I only, I would only know the greatest hits. Yep.

But I do love, uh, when the river runs dry. That came on the radio not that long ago when I was in maybe a taxi or something. I think of when I would have heard it. But yeah, I remember nodding along. Yeah, they're all like this song. It's great. Ozzy Anthems. Yeah.

So good. Great question, Drew. Thanks, Drew. I'm guessing Drew's an Ozzy based on that. The way that that one ended. Yeah, I don't know. Did you cover on Listen Now? Any Hunters and Collectors ever come up? No.

Because I did thank you for exposing Drew to new tunes. True. Maybe. We will. I mean, that would have definitely come up. I don't think we did an episode dedicated to him, but definitely would have talked about him. Or did we do an episode about him? We may well have. Like I say, it was a while ago. Thank you, Drew.

Final one comes from Michael Dorissey, AKA it's one degree currently in brackets, negative 17 Celsius, close bracket. That's so close. Or close parentheses. Yes. We got a suggestion here. While listening to your Paddington ep recently,

I decided to stop about 20 minutes in and watch the movie because you guys so clearly enjoyed it. And oh my goodness, what a charming and delightful movie it is. I doubt if you didn't do it for the movie club bonus Eppes that I would have decided to watch it. So thanks. I'm currently planning on watching the other two and so should everyone else.

Yeah, so good. You're welcome. I hadn't seen it either, so we covered it on the Dugong Movie Club on our Patreon. And yeah, so Michelle was there, Michelle Brazier, because she's a massive Paddington fan. So is Jess, but I'd never seen it. Jess puts it up there one of her favorite movies ever, especially number two.

So I gave it a go and I loved it. I can't wait to see number two either. It's really great, yeah. I know you're a fan too. Yeah, yeah. Number two is, it's probably the best one. That's awesome. Cause number one.

The quality is really good. Yeah. I love the first one, but yeah, second one maybe just, just edges it out. And the third one is really fun as well. Thank you so much for those facts, quotes and questions, Michael Drew, Michaela and Jesse. The next thing we need to do or want to do, let's put it like that, because it's true, is thank some of our other great Patreon supporters.

Absolutely. And Jess normally comes up with a game, but it's going to be up to us. Can we fill in for Jessie? So normally it's a little game to do with the topic at hand. Or is it too grim to say, you know, this is obviously a Zodiac copycat killer to assign them a past killer that we've covered? Oh, all nine. Do we have nine killers?

We probably do. Maybe. We could do that. Or yeah. Or is that too grim? Or we could give their criminal identity, you know, like the New York Zodiac killer. Maybe we could call them the where they're from something, something. Oh, that's good. Yeah, let's do that.

That's because that way it doesn't have to be wall to wall serial killing. Yeah. And I'll, you know, that the big bikey cop would be like, I got all of them on my back. Very inconsistent with that guy's voice, isn't it? I lot. No, it was great. You can put that in a list of a thousand noises. A voice of Bikie Cop. All right, I'm going to kick things off.

I would like to thank from Bristol in Great Britain, possibly in Somerset. Somerset. It's Bristol in Somerset. It's Bristol in Somerset. Thank you to Moodeye. Moodeye. I think that our- how we say Somerset annoys people of Somerset, so apologies for that. Moodeye. Moodeye. Okay, Mood Eye. I think that our summer, how we say Somerset annoys people of Somerset. So apologies for that. Mood Eye.

Mood Eye. Okay. Mood Eye. The Bristol something? Yeah. Something we're doing? Yep. We'll go, so their place is locked in and then one of us does the thing and the

other one does the crime sort of, you know, like killer. Okay. So for this one, do you want to do the thing? I'll do the crime of us first, though. Okay, I'll do the crime. So the Bristol. Dairy Queen. Safecracker.

What is Dairy Queen? Is that an ice cream shop in America? And we all know we had Dairy Bell in Melbourne. Dairy Queen. Isn't it so interesting how your mind works when put under pressure like that? The Dairy Queen. Oh, there's also a Cafe in Glenroy. Oh, that's what I was thinking.

The Dairy Queen Safecracker. The Bristol Dairy Queen Safecracker, Moodeye. Moodeye. Great work. Then I would like to... So then I'll do the next one and you do the other thing. Perfect. Perfect. Yep. Next up from Riga. Is that in Latvia?

Yeah, it's the capital of Latvia. Ooh, Dave, you have your own crack at this pronunciation, but thank you. Dacci cari. Dacci cari. What do you reckon? Das-co. Das-co. Das-co. Wow.

I'm so sorry. How do you say that? All right. The Rigga Tony Award winning. Rigga Tony. Bit of fun. That's really funny. The Riggaoni award winning.

Inside a trader. What a life. Odassi. Odassi. I'm so sorry, but it- What a beautiful looking name. We can't get close to that. I've not seen whatever that- that Viumlaut on top of the C. And we possibly met you, or maybe we've got multiple Patrons.

In Latvia, someone came to the Berlin show. Really? As I met them, and they were from Latvia, which blew my mind. So cool. So maybe. Brig. But if there's more than one, that's even better news for the chance of- Wait, when were we over in Berlin?

Cause they signed up in November last year. This could have been. Maybe they're on the train back from Berlin to sign up. But if not, I'm hoping there's two, cause that means there's a chance we'll get to Latvia one day. I don't know if we can do our rigga show. Yeah, rigga Tony. I would like to thank from Montreal in Canada.

It is James Whale. James Whale. Great name. The Montreal. Oh, I'll go. The Montreal scuba diving. Damn. Damn. Dynamite burglar.

Oh, that's good. I was going to say dentist and I realised that wasn't a criminal. Dynamite burglar. So the I mean, some of the prices they charge, am I wrong? And they do the great work. Just should be covered by Medicare. From the Montreal scuba diving dynamite. Burglar. Burglar.

Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. And you can see why they got big, James. Well, because it rolls off the tongue. Beautiful. That's the kind of criminal alias that's going to go big. All right. I'll keep it going here from Lower Hutt, somewhere in New Zealand. Thank you so much.

To Holly Walker. Holly Walker. Oh my Lower Hutt somewhere in New Zealand. Thank you so much. To Holly Walker. Holly Walker. Oh, my God. Holly Walker from New Zealand. Are you engaged? Oh, my gosh. Holly Walker from New Zealand. Could that be? Could it be you? Wow, you've already you've moved it. You got married five days ago at the time of recording and.

All right. So I'll say Lower Hutt. You'll say something or I'll say Lower Hutt something. You say Lower Hutt something. I think we should stick with that because I've been, I'm so tired and confused. The Lower Hutt Cannibal. Cannibal... That's a crime. Yeah, Cannibal Trespasser.

It's hard not to think of really grim crimes. I mean, when my, I've thrown you cannibal. That's what trespasser. Yeah. Trespass. Trespass. All right, I'll keep reading the names. Okay.

I wonder if, is Lower Hutt where there was, Lower Hutt's familiar to me as well. Yeah. But whether or not you've just got married, happy nuptials, Holly. Holly Walker. He probably would have mentioned if she was also a less than American. Sorry Holly Walker to get you mixed up with another Holly. I'd also have a thing from Canberra in the Australian capital territory. It's Kate T. Kate T. thing from Canberra in the Australian capital territory. It's Kate T. Kate T. The Canberra crew shirt wearing.

State false name when requested. Request. Is that your mind that's come up with that? I've found a list of criminal offences and there's hundreds of them and I just went down to it. Crew shirt wearing was bad. Let me go again. The Canberra tomato. Tomato. Firearm store in an insecure manner. We're falling apart with that, Jess.

The glue. Thank you so much, Kate T. I think both good options you can choose between. I'd also have to thank from London town in Great Britain. It's Aspen Watts, the London speedo. Speedo unlicensed driver. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. You don't want it like you're getting around in your Speedos. You don't want the cops bringing attention apart from the fact that you're like, oh,

no, I don't have my license in my pants and I forgot to bring them. Pretty good cover story. That's pretty good. Well done Aspen. I think Aspen was it the was it the laugh who knew it in London? Ah, bloody awesome. Don't forget a name like Aspen Watts. Unless you do, which I might.

Another Bristolian from Great Britain. Thank you, Alexandra Mitchell. Okay, Alexandra Mitchell, the Bristolian. Dinosaur. Dinosaur, Dinosaur, the Bristolian. Dinosaur. Dinosaur, dog found at large between sunrise and sunset. I'm not following what these mean. What does that mean?

Apparently that's an offence. Alexandra, you're up to no good, but what a beautiful alias you have. I'd also have to thank from, wow, right here in Melbourne in Elwood. Megan, the Elwood hair clip. Bomb hoaxer. Oh, yeah. Yeah, hair clips and bombs seem to- Yeah, if you look at that, with a couple of wires coming out of it, you think, what the hell is that?

Uh, thank you so much, Megan. That's... I think we're back on track now. I think we've absolutely native that one, Megan. Uh, which brings us to our final one this week from Blountstown in Florida in the United States. It's John Mark Plummer, the Blountstown Bulldog Perjurer. Oh, yeah, we came up real strong. The Bulldog Perjurer. Oh, there's so many grim ones on this list, so it is hard to find. But, you know, we could have had Bigamist. We could have had Arsonist, obviously.

Inside a Trader, I already said that one. Brilliant. I mean, there's a lot of great ones here. Offense to alter to face or place name on an engine of motor vehicle. Oh my god, these are all so good. Thank you so much to John, Megan, Alexandra, Aspen, Kate, Holly, James, Deich and Moodi. And that brings us to, well, normally that would bring us to the Triptych Club. There are actually no inductees this week. Well, we get to take a week off while everyone inside, obviously.

Those people have been supporting the show for three consecutive years. Yeah, everyone in there. There will still be a party. We don't need new inductees to have a party. We'll have our weekly party still. Jess isn't here behind the bar, but I've got the New York Zodiac cocktail ready this week. It is, well, it's any spirit based cocktail or mocktail you want. Okay. But instead of doing like a shooter style, we spud gun it down your throat. Open up!

Thank you. Oh, that was fantastic. And Dave, you normally book a band? You're never going to believe it. The New York Zodiac Killer is here. You know who else is here? He is here? Well, on the report.

You know who would be happy about that. You know who is here? It's on the report. You know, he'll be happy about that. You know who is here? It's the New York Dolls. Oh, my gosh. The front front man died recently. Really? Oh, well, apparently there are no founding members still alive, but they will be reuniting at the triptych club because we can have dead people. Yes. In fact, some say they everyone in there is. That's right. So Johnny Funders will be reuniting at the triptych club because we can have dead people in this. Yes. In fact, some say they, everyone in there is.

That's right. So Johnny Thunders will be back. Yeah, Johnny Thunders. He's the one who died recently, right? Oh no, he died in 1991. OK, not Johnny Thunders. He's the one that I know. I'm thinking of... No, what's his? It's David Johansson. But what's his stage name again?

He also had a great stage name. He did die recently. Buster Poindexter. God, that's so good. He was, I mean, to me, he's most famous for being on a very Murray Christmas. Of course. You watch every year, so he'll live on. Yeah, I've actually dropped off that, but yeah.

I thought you dropped off. It never felt like the right night last Christmas. Oh, fair enough. You sort of have to be ready for a bit of a slow one. I just enjoy it, but it is a, it's a slow special. So yeah, no inductees this week, but everyone in there, and there are hundreds of you, enjoy the cocktail, enjoy the New York Dolls, back together post-life,

post-punk post-life, no, not post, pre-punk. That's right, proto-punk. Proto-life. Enjoy the New York Dolls. Back together. Post life. Post punk, post life. No, not post, pre punk. That's right. Proto punk. Proto life. Proto punk. Post life. And well, what does that mean?

Does that mean we're finished the episode, Dave? That's it. I don't know how to finish this without doing it. It does feel funny. Do you want me to throw a name at you? And you can just sort of like do some weak wordplay just to give you a scratch. Hit me, hit me, hit me, hit me. All right.

From Ceratosis. Is that some word? In American, Minneapolis. Please welcome Johnny Dugar. Johnny Dugar. I'm all like Johnny Dugar. Go on in. That's good.

It's Dugar. What's-gar, is that a name? Yeah, I don't know. I didn't think of any of that ahead. I've made all of that up. I don't know. Johnny Doo-gar, please enjoy some of the new-gar. Doesn't that all sound like an American thing though? I think one of the things was definitely true and that was Minneapolis or whatever, Minnesota.

That's a real place. That's a real place and Johnny's a real first name. I think the other two bits weren't real. But. But. Close enough. Prove it in a real first name. I think the other two bits weren't real. But. But. Close enough. Prove it in a court of law. But you can't. I'm the Bulldog Perjurer.

Should we send this one home? Yeah, let's put this baby home. Hey, if you're listening live, don't forget that the Melbourne Comedy Festival is happening from tonight. I believe it's just kicked off. Dave, you're doing a show. You could go along and be dated by Dave. That's right. Tomorrow night,, you're doing a show. You could go along and be dated by Dave. That's right. Tomorrow night, Thursday, March 27, 2025, for the next couple of weeks, you can see

me at the improv conspiracy with Sammy Peterson and we will be dating the entire audience. You'll be using your phones to tell us what you want to do next. It's an interactive show where you use your phone and yeah, it's a lot of fun. But you also don't have to be that interactive. I've seen some people ask you online or post about asking, oh, I'm a bit introverted. I don't really want to get interactive. It's not like the kind of thing you're forced to be involved in. No, that's right. If you like, I mean, some people just go, I, my phone's flat.

And that's fine. It means you just take it to the phone. Clearly they're lying because you're saying texting online. Yeah, the texting, this sucks, this sucks. So weird. I can see that. The font's so large, they keep turning around to show me. This sucks. Still battery dead, but you can see that the font's so large, they keep turning around to show me. This sucks. Still battery dead, but you can see it says this sucks. That's right. So, yeah, you get to vote on what you want to do on the next date.

So. So fun. And it is not- and you also get to send us anonymous messages, so some of them have been pretty wild. And then just after you finish, I'm doing my show Bad Boy, and it's just all about how I'm a bad boy of comedy, probably the worst boy of all comedy. Wow. And then we're also doing the Festival Club, like we were saying before, the knee Hi-Fi Bar, now the Max Watts. That's Wednesday, April 2nd at 11pm.

And it's late. It's live. It's loose. And it's filled with love. That's right.'s filled with love. That's right. Laced with love? Yeah. Yeah. Laced with love. So, I guess that's it.

If you want to get in contact with us, our website is dugonpod.com. You can click there to go to Patreon, to buy merchandise, to find any live show tickets. All the shows we just mentioned are listed there. But apart from that, hey, you made it. Go, you know, go have a nice drink. Yeah. Like if you feel like- Let's just shoot one down your face.

Yeah, that's right. If you're a Patreon. If you're a Triplich Club member. And yeah, check out Fast Friends, the podcast with Rhys Nicholson. Great Rhys Nicholson and thanks again to Reese for listening, well, for listening for over the years, but also for being on the show. They haven't heard this one, but that's OK. We'll be back next week with another fantastic episode.

That is the Do Go On Guarantee. But until then, also, thank you so much for listening and goodbye. Later. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. Wherever we go, we always hear six months later, oh you should come to Manchester. We were just in Manchester. We were just there, but this way you'll never, you'll never miss out.

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