Do Go On - 503 - The Jinx Murderer

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

On the 31st of January, 1982 29-year-old Kathleen McCormack attended a party at her friend’s house in Connecticut. After she left the party that night, she was never seen again.This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 10:17 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).For all our important links: https://linktr.ee/dogoonpod Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present. REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:https://allthatsinteresting.com/kathleen-mccormackhttps://www.vulture.com/2015/03/robert-durst-timeline-life-and-crimes.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/obituaries/robert-durst-dead.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/nyregion/35-years-later-sister-in-durst-case-is-still-looking-for-answers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/nyregion/robert-dursts-wife-steps-back-after-years-of-defending-him.htmlhttps://www.vulture.com/2015/03/debrah-lee-charatan-robert-durst-wife.htmlhttps://www.vulture.com/article/susan-berman-the-jinx.htmlhttps://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2015/03/robert-durst-murders-wife-susie-bermanhttps://people.com/celebrity/hbo-the-jinx-robert-durst-robert-durst-arrested-for-murder/ https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/24/arts/television/robert-durst-the-jinx.html Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey mates, just Matt jumping in here to let you know that I'm coming to the UK for a tour this September 2025. I'm coming to Edinburgh, Cambridge. It's our first ever show there. Birmingham, Manchester, Swansea, first ever Wales show and London. I'm gonna be doing my show Bad Boy as well as a live Who Knew It with Matt Stewart in each of those places. Cannot wait. so pumped up. And also, while I've got you, our recent 500th episode, which we recorded live at the Capitol Theatre, that is now available to watch on our YouTube channel.

So just head over to our YouTube channel, do go on Pod, and check out all three episodes there. A whole lot of fun. And yes, grab tickets to Bad Boy and Who Knew It in the UK at mattstewittcomedy.com. Anyway, let's get on with the show. Some things just take too long. A meeting that could have been an email, someone explaining crypto, or switching mobile providers. Except with Fizz.

Switching to Fizz is quick and easy. Mobile plans start at $17 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hi, I'm Kylie. And I'm Elliot. We're hosts of Moody Movie Club, a Snack Labs podcast where we talk about the movies

we watch and the thoughts and feelings they bring up in us. Our weekly movie picks can span decades, genres, languages, and more. Plus we keep it totally spoiler free so that you can find movies to match your moods. So join us every Thursday on our Moody Movie Journey to hear about what we watched that week. And the feelings that made us feel because movies are magic and feelings are too. So watch more movies and stay moody my dudes. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnocky and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins.

I'm a the here. I think that's pretty good. I'm a here. I like it. I think I also like it. I don't, have we ever restarted an episode because Dave stuffed it up? I don't think we ever have. My gosh, 500 times, there it is.

There it is. I think we just proved that. We just don't. We just don't. He has an astronomical fuck up and we just keep plowing on. Dave doesn't have rear view mirrors on his car. Yeah. He taped them over.

Yeah. He doesn't look back. Doesn't look back. It's so bad for parking. It's really dangerous. He kind of vibes it. Yeah, I do it by feel. Yeah.

Am I doing it back there? Yeah, you feel the other cars, don't you? Yeah. Some do touch parking. You do more like nudge parking. Yeah, nudge. That's the reason I've got a big tow bar. Little nudge, but yeah, you've created damage

wherever you park. Yeah. Yeah. I make room. Small man, big tow bar. I am compensating. But hi, Dave. What a treat to be here on this podcast. So great to be here.

So good to be back. I think I missed maybe the last couple of weeks depending on when they come out. Because it was a way, but now I'm back. What did you say to the listeners? Did you tell them the truth or did you make up a polite excuse for me? I'll be completely honest with you. I have forgotten, but I'm also fairly confident it was a bit of column A, a bit of column B.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think- Or you just didn't even mention it. Yeah. No, we mentioned it. I think- We thought people wouldn't notice.

I think we alluded to the fact that you were dead or missing, you know, the classic gag, and then I think at one point I did say, he's on roadshow. Okay. He's doing strip shows. He's away. Um, cause I got bored of my own joke, you know? Yeah. As I do.

Bit much to claim that as your own joke. I think that started when you were away. Okay. I got bored of the joke I was doing at the time. Jesus fucking Christ. So, so what? You missed this tedium. Welcome back.

How, how were the shows? Who cares? They were really great. Really great. Apart from one, but I won't mention that place. Blacklisted in your heart. It was pretty funny. There was some people who heckled and I think it was because of Tourette's.

So you know, no shade at all, but some really funny moments. At one point a woman said, I think there was a group of people with Tourette's and I think a woman said at one point, something like, you've got red hair. And I was like, yes, yes I do. You're not wrong. Yes I do.

You are not wrong and you got me. You got me abused. No context, halfway through the story, but nothing to do with your hair. Yeah. Love it. And it was really fun. I mean, I kind of enjoyed myself all the same. It was also just like a smaller crowd, but, you know, whatever.

That was also the first one. And every other one was great. It's the way to do it if you're going to do it anyway. Oh, yeah. Start with a rougher show. The common way to do it is to finish with that one. Yeah. That's how I tend to do it. Yeah. And it's now it's always leaving it with a bad taste. But this time around, the taste is still delicious.

Jess, what are we doing here? Episode 503. What is this all about? Well, we're having fun. That's what we're having. We're having obvious friendship. That's what we're having. But if you're asking me how this show works for new listeners who have decided to start an episode, what, 503? Welcome. You absolute wild dogs.

Can I just say? You are wild. Just picking 503 and going from there. I remember that one of Matt's classic gigs recently and they were like, I'm going to check out this guy's podcast. Yeah. He's got red hair. He's got red hair.

I love to listen to redheads. One of the three of us researches the topic, often suggested to us by our fantastic listeners. And then they tell the other two about it, who listen very politely, who definitely remember these things for years to come, and who never interrupt with dogshit riffs. And we always get onto the topic with a question.

Matt, do you have a question? I do have a question. Okay, are you ready? Mm hmm. I want you both, there's no taking in turns. I want you to both give it to me as you have it. You want me to give it to you as I have it? I don't got it. I have it, but I don't think you actually want me to give it to you. I don't think you can handle it. I don't think you could. I reckon I can. I think you might have a heart attack. Give it to me, you two. I do have a heart condition. Yeah.

If you hit me, it's murder. Question is, when you and another person unintentionally say the same thing simultaneously, it's a playful tradition to shout what word? Jinkx! Jinkx! I was on my head, I'm like, what a fun moment this will be. And I wasn't quick enough to answer my own question in sync. Or was it that I was too rude in interrupting and not letting you finish your question?

No, no, I think too quick. Yeah, well done. Jess, so that's a point for Jess. I held back because I knew what he was doing. I knew that he was setting something up. Shut up. No, you didn't. Oh, now I'm the idiot.

Okay. Yeah, that's's point for Jess. I held back because I knew what he was doing. I knew that he was setting something up. Shut up. No, you didn't. Oh, now I'm the idiot. Okay. Yeah, that's how we get you. Oh, no. He's like, well, I obviously saw the bit he was trying to do and for the comedy I was actually hanging back, but obviously I knew the answer basically the second he started

talking. That's actually how it went down. Yeah. Well, I'm going to not have fun on this show. Yeah. Me and Jesse are here to have fun, Dave. Yeah. Well, I'm here to win.

Well, but you didn't do that either. Well, I'm here for looking smug. I'm so confused by this guy. It's an audio medium. Oh, I'm not doing it for anyone else. Oh, well, you are looking smug. I will give you that. So yes, this week we're talking about a guy, nick are looking smug. I will give you that.

So, yes, this week we're talking about a guy, nickname The Jinx, Robert Durst. Oh, I thought he was going to say we're talking about a guy who had been Jinx for 30 years or something. Just say it so you know. Please! Please just say his name three times or whatever it is. The Jinx? That's Rumple Stiltskin. Okay. What are the rules of Jinx?

Yeah, you gotta say it. I think you just say it once though. Do you have to say it three times? Oh rules of Jinx? Yeah, you gotta say it. I think you just say it once though. Do you have to say it three times? Oh yeah, maybe I'll have to say it once. Or you're thinking of Bloody Mary. Oh yeah, or Candy Man. Beetlejuice.

Okay, there's a few. There's a few. But speaking of real life terrifying people, the Jinx, this is one of the, like a big doco that I've heard of but I haven't seen. Have you seen it, Jess? No. Oh, that's great. I'm glad. Yes. HBO's The Jinx. Oh my gosh.

And it's one of those documentaries that it ends up wrapped up in the story. The fact that they made the documentary led to, you know, big breakthroughs in the case. Yes. So I know that, but I don't know the details of the whole case. Yes. So this is very interesting. And this has been suggested by a few listeners, including Bailey Blacklock from Portsmouth

in the UK, Scott Clark from Cumbria in England, Joseph from the US. Not any, can't be any more specific than that. Jack Vernon from Mesa or Mesa, Arizona in the US. And Jordan De Jong from Johnson City. There's some incredible names all through that. Jordan De Jong from Johnson City. Who was first? Bailey... Bailey Blacklock. Blacklock. That is awesome.

Is that CK or CH? CK. Fuck yeah Bailey Blacklock. Blacklock. That is awesome. Is that CK or CH? CK. Fuck yeah. Blacklock. That's great. Bailey's leaving us in no doubt. That is Blacklock. Blacklock.

Not Blackloch. Exactly. It's not a lake. No. And yeah, Jordan De Jong said that he's, well they're about 90 minutes from Dollywood. Wow. Did you go to Johnson City?

That's one of the best city names I've ever heard. I didn't know. I love that so much. That's so good. I mean, after you got married, you didn't go to Johnson City? No, we're waiting. I'm rewatching Parks and Rec because I'm basically always watching Parks and Rec and there's a... You're like painting the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

Yeah, once I finish, I got to start again. And there's a couple in it that are like conservative rights activists, like they always- and they're arguing for abstinence only to be taught. And we've met the wife several times and then she introduced her husband who is a very flamboyantly gay man. And he says, at one point he's talking about, he's like, we waited until marriage and then some. And I've been saying that a lot this week.

I'm waiting until marriage and then some. Yeah, just to be safe. Just to be safe. You never know. Just in case the paperwork hasn't got through to the big fella yet. Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's certainly a backlog.. Just in case the paperwork hasn't got through to the big fella yet. Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's certainly a backlog.

It's a backlog. I don't know how the marriage courts work in Vegas. I played Centurion. I made sure I had a hundred and first shot. Yes. Just to make sure. Just in case. In case there was a clerical error.

Exactly. Yeah. Very similar. All right. Here is the story. Um, I was up late last night. Were you? Or were you up early this morning? I was up early this morning.

And were you doing the Centurion last night? Yes. Okay. Facts points a lot. Every fact I wrote down, I had a shot. Oh boy. Oh my God, there's so many facts. Uh, but the, yeah, so I haven't, I haven't done a read through this.

And I'm confident it is. Anyway, I don't, we'll find out together. Like, you know, I don't know why you would need to mention that to us, to people who would never ever pick up on small things you say incorrectly. Yeah, that's true. Very, very polite and we respect you. Plus AJ will look after us in the edit. Always does.

Always does. We're sure. I'm gonna listen back. All right. Here's the story. I mean, I listen back. All right, here's the story. Maybe some warnings about some domestic violence and other such things.

Okay. I don't know, we never go into too much detail, but this is a part of it. So on the 31st of January, 1982, 29 year old Kathleen McCormack attended a party at her friend's house in Connecticut. And after the party that night, she left early and was never seen again. For all that's interesting, Neil Patmore writes, Kathleen Cathy McCormack was born on the 15th of June, 1952 and grew up near New York City. She attended New Hyde Park Memorial High School

and worked numerous part-time jobs both on Long Island and in Manhattan." That's the longest school name I've ever heard, I reckon. New Hyde Park Memorial High School. Too long. Yeah. Put that on your jacket. Yeah. What would the letter be? Is that what the letterman jacket is in American culture? Is it just the first letter of the school or is it just a letter? I think it's what letter you got on your latest exam. Yeah, you gotta keep changing that patch.

Hey, hey, give that to me. You only got a C, give me that B, give me that B. Oh, right. So yeah, some people are going around with an F letter jacket and they just didn't do so good. Yeah. And they're really uncool. It's a shaming thing. Right, but jacket and they just didn't do so good. Yeah. And they're really uncool. It's a shaming thing.

Right. But you have to put your jacket on. Yeah. Young man. Yeah. I got my Letterman's jacket. What'd you get? V plus.

That's all right. Pretty good. That's pretty good, I guess. Nothing to snooze at. So McCormack did go on to marry Robert Durst. They met when she was quite young. I think she was maybe 18 and he was nine or so years older than her. But he was the son of a wealthy real estate magnate like it.

And his dad was the son of a wealthy real estate magnate. You know, it was a bit of an empire, a big deal. It's like properly wealthy people. Yeah. The Manhattan skyline was a lot of those big buildings were Durst family buildings. Right. Okay. So yeah. And then just over 10 years after they met and eight years after they were married, that's when Cathy disappeared. Five days after she was last seen on the 5th of February 1982, Durst finally reported her missing, which seems like a long, it's a pretty long wait. He said,

she's off to study. They were living outside of, they were living in Connecticut or wherever. And she was studying New York. Sometimes she'd go away studying and they wouldn't chat for a bit. Wasn't that uncommon? This is pre-smartphones. It's harder to stay in touch, I guess. You're not texting all the time.

Yeah. You know, we're so clingy these days. Oh, I gotta check in with my partner every day so they know I'm alive. Yeah, but back in the day, you know, your partner would just go out to the forest for three or four weeks. Yeah, nothing weird about it.

They'd forage. Yeah. You would hear from them. I know. God. Plus you'd write them a letter, takes a few days to get there. Yeah. You go, five days.

Well, now I'm starting to think there should have been a letter back by now. Yeah. Did she not immediately write back to me? Maybe she was busy. She thought, she thought I'll sleep on it. I'll write back to him tomorrow. I'll give it till tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Maybe she was busy, she thought, I'll sleep on it, I'll write back to him tomorrow. I'll give it till tomorrow.

Yeah, that's true. For Vulture, Nate Jones writes that Durst told police that Cathy returned to the couple's South Salem cottage the night of the 31st. Then after a fight, she wanted to go back to New York City where they had an apartment. Durst told police he dropped her off at the Metro North station at Katona,

then called her from a payphone to talk when she arrived at her Manhattan apartment. His story appears to be backed up by testimony from a doorman who says he saw Cathy enter the apartment building, as well as from an associate dean of her medical school who said Cathy called in sick the next day. When asked why he didn't report his wife missing sooner, Durst said that because of her med school duties, it was not unusual for him to go two or three days without seeing her. So it's like, it's pretty normal. But Kathy's family was very sus on Durst.

Right. They didn't mind him at first, but pretty soon they're like, this guy's, he's not right. So who is Robert Durst? Well according to Robert D McFadden writing for the New York Times, Robert Alan Durst was born on the 12th of April, 1943 in Manhattan. He was the oldest of four children of Seymour and Bernice. His father was the Patriarch four children of Seymour and Bernice. His father was the patriarch. Just his face.

I was trying not to interrupt you, but Bernice gave me a visceral reaction. Oh, I had that for Seymour. You don't like Seymour? No. Okay. I don't like Bernice. What about Bernice? Oh. If I say it like that.

Oh yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Bernie. Bernie. Let's call her Bernie. Seymour and Bernie. I like it. Maury and Bernie. Maury. Yeah, because call her Bernie. Seymour and Bernie. I like it. Maury and Bernie.

Maury. Yeah, because I don't like Seymour much. Fair enough. Seymour. Yeah. So you can only say it like that. It was definitely worth interrupting you. I'm sorry.

I had a visceral reaction to Bernice. It's fair to commentate the face because it really caught me off guard as well. You just sucked a lemon. I actually love lemon, so it has to be something else. Okay, you just sucked a lime. Because me sucking a lemon would be like, mmm. You know what I mean? So yeah, Seymour, he was the patriarch of this building empire, which was founded in 1927 by Robert's grandfather, Joseph Durst, who was an Austrian immigrant.

That's so close to Joe Durst. That's so close to Joe Durst. It's so close to Joe Durst. Meet Joe Durst. A fantastic film. And it wasn't, the film wasn't Meet Joe Durst, was it? That was Meet Joe Black. Yes. I've merged, we've now merged three different things.

That's what we do best. We abyss remember things and smush them together. We do best. We abyss remember things and smush them together. This is how Charles V. Bagley, also running for the New York Times, put it about the Durst family, said, "'They presided over a Manhattan real estate company "'whose towers formed the skyline.'"

That's nice. That's big. Yeah. Back to McFadden, "'Robert and his siblings, Douglas, Thomas and Wendy, grew up in the Westchester suburb of Scarsdale, but their comfortable childhood was punctured in 1950 by the death of their mother who fell or jumped from the roof of their home. Their family was devastated and seven-year-old Robert, who may have witnessed her plunge, was shattered, obviously. He says

he did see it and others say he didn't see it. Like others in his family said he wouldn't have seen it. He's like, I saw it. Dad brought me over to the window and then I saw it. That's how he tells it. Dad brought me over to the window. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Probably not for that.

No, just a bad, bad place to be. He was like, look at the view and then, oh my God. Yeah. Our memories aren't very reliable. No, it's an amazing- Yeah. I used to be so sure, I was gonna be like, no, this is how it happened, you're wrong. And now I'm like, well, we will never know.

Yeah, yeah. Which isn't ideal. No, it would be good if memories were like, yeah, pretty locked in. Yes. But actually we can kind of trick ourselves a lot too. Yeah. Memories of memories. Like I've done it where I've inserted myself into memories or insert more likely inserting

people who weren't there in the memories, like merging a few different things and going, wait, you weren't there? I don't picture you there. Sometimes it, yeah, there'll be a photo I've seen frequently and then I'll remember things. And I'm like, do I actually remember that or am I thinking of a photo? Yeah. Yeah. Weird.

If you haven't done that thing where you've exaggerated a story for stand up or combine two events just for storytelling. And now I can't remember what really happened. Yeah. I've said the story so many times that way. Yeah. But I've combined two events, I've cut something out in the middle and I'm like, what happened in the middle? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've said the story so many times that way. Yeah. But I've combined two events, I've cut something out in the middle and I'm like, what happened in the middle?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. And it turns out that's quite an important part. Officer. Of course, I'm usually a truth teller on stage. Yeah. You know, truth to power, that kind of stuff. Yeah, truth to power, putting up a mirror to society,

punching up. Yeah. All that stuff. Punching up in the mirror to society. Yeah. Back to McFadden. So him and his younger brother Douglas didn't get on. They had fistfights.

Douglas Durst. Douglas Durst. Dougie Durst. Dougie Durst. Okay, Dougie's better. That sounds like a good name for their dog. Yeah. Dougie Dog the Durst.

Dougie Durst the dog. There it is. But they had punch-ons. Yeah. Duggy dog the Durst. Duggy Durst the dog. There it is. But they had punch ons. Yeah. Siblings. And Robert was sent for psychiatric counselling. And yeah, they thought, I mean, this is all in hindsight of after how his life went, but they'll talk to, that's, you know, some of those doctors and they say, yeah, there were

signs of troubles. Mr. Durst, that's Robert or Bobby as his friends seem to call him, graduated from Lehigh University or Lehee. Or Lai. Could be Lai University. But I like to think it's French. Lehigh University, if you know what I mean. I just can't imagine how this is spelled from the way you said it.

I'm just excited for the posts in the Patreon group explaining it. Lehigh, L-E-H-I-G-H. But one word. Anyway, he graduated in 1965 with a degree in economics, but dropped out of postgraduate studies at UCLA, where he met Susan Berman, an aspiring writer and the daughter of a reputed Las Vegas mobster. Oh. We'll hear more about her and her dad a bit later.

McFadden continues, as a young man, Mr. Durst's conduct often seemed merely impulsive and eccentric. After two dates, for instance, he invited Kathleen McCormack to move with him to Vermont. I think I said Connecticut before, Vermont, where he had opened a health food store named All Good Things. So this is the, they ended up getting married. All Good Things? Yeah. Must come to. Is it still going?

I don't think things. Yeah. Must come to. Is it still going? I don't think so. Unfortunately. As the adage projected. But yeah, so two dates, they moved together interstate. When you know, you know. Dave and his wife still haven't even been on two dates. Yeah.

They just, they met, married. That's it. Boom. Locked in. When you know, you know. We opened a health food shop. It's going great. For now. Sorry, that's the name of the shop. It's called, it's going good. For now. Well, for now. And then it closed down four years ago.

Okay. So a year later, after they'd moved and they were working on this health food store, kind of living a bit of a hippie lifestyle, driving a Volkswagen. What? You know what I mean? What? Yeah. Hippie dippie.

Come on. Alternative. This guy's, he's from multi multi billionaires or millionaires. VW. What's that stand for? Very weird. Yeah, stay very weird. But yeah, I think his dad was like, all right, time to come back.

You've had your fun. I'm embarrassed. You're driving a VW. Yeah. You opened a health food shop? It's a shame on the family name. Come on. So he gets him to come back to New York, joins the family business and Ders and McCormack

were married in 1973 and they were living, you know, that lifestyle in the big city, partying at Studio 54, the Celebrity Disco in Manhattan, and they would sail the Mediterranean also. They went to Thailand. They were living it up. Really? On the also. They went to Thailand. Whoa. They were living it up. Really? On the surface.

Look at that paradise. It sounds like a beautiful life. But sadly as the seventies continued, the couple's relationship deteriorated and Durst became increasingly violent and controlling. He reportedly forced her to give up a pregnancy and that sounds like that was a big turning point. Like she started trying to find a path out, seeking independence.

She started studying nursing and then after graduating her nursing degree, Bagley writes, immediately she started medical school at Albert Einstein College, if you don't mind. Imagine you go like, I've never heard of it, but you- It's gotta be good. Yeah. Have that on your diploma. That's a good one.

Yeah. Which, that's in the Bronx. Yeah, I've heard of Albert Einstein. I'm pretty sure. He's a pretty big deal. Like honestly, you could say Albert Einstein and Clown College and I'd be like, wow, that's got to be a good Clown College. If you just saw him without knowing who he was and then I said, medical school or Clown

College, I think you're saying he's probably the- Yeah, the Dean. He's a Clown College guy. Comes in wearing- honking a little, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's a fancy honk. Uh-huh.

No, I remember it because it's tuition free because of a one billion dollar gift given to them by Ruth Goddisman. Her late husband, David, left the money to her upon his death, so she donated a billion dollars. So it's now a tuition free school. I think they also have predominantly or definitely a much higher percentage of black students as well. So it's huge. That's, I mean, billionaires. That was only like a couple of years ago.

If you're listening, billionaires, why not do that? Do that for fuck's sake. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Just like? Do that for fuck's sake. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Just like build some houses for people maybe. You could do a lot. You could do a lot of billion dollars. And if you're a multi-billionaire, you can do even more. You fuck. Jesus. I know. Anyway, that's why that school is that was in my head.

I was like, oh, I've heard of that one and I've heard of Albert Einstein. And I have been meaning to say that because I know 50% of our audience are billionaires. So it's probably, you know, we've got the platform. We should really speak to them directly. That's right. So, yes, back to Bagley. So she's studying at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, and her plan is to become a

pediatrician. Her classmate Dr. Alicia Landman-Ryner. Wow. Excuse me? Fantastic. Landman-Ryner. Landman-Ryner. So obviously she was a, they were students together but she went on to become a doctor. Dr. Landman-Ryner said she was so excited to be a medical student. She worked hard. She always took a seat in the front row and took notes. And so, you know, she was if she had a letter on her jacket, it'd be A. Maybe for attendance. A for attendance.

I'm here every week. I failed every exam, but I will be back next week. I'm not listening. She was every exam, but I will be back next week. I'm not listening. She was taking notes, but of what? Sketching the room. Yeah. Oh, it was a squirrel outside. Oh, sorry. Squirrel. Squirrel. Squirrel. Bagley continues. Bob Roberts possessiveness was escalating into physical violence, said nursing school

classmate, a nursing school classmate of McCormack's named Eleanor Joy Schwank. The names in this episode- Stop it. Yeah, running Joyce into Swank, Joyce Schwank. Yeah, it's so good. It's a lot going on. Yeah, this is what Joyce Schwank said during an interview in 2000, Kathy would call me saying Bobby is really violent. Durst, impatient to leave a McCormack family gathering at one point, yanked his wife's hair in front of her family. Oh my gosh.

So they're like, oh shit, this is bad. And her sister Mary said on another occasion, he stormed into their East side apartment where McCormack was talking with friends and kicked an acquaintance in the face. What the fuck? The man who was kicked in the face later, settled a lawsuit over the episode with Mr. Ders. So he got, he got cash out of it.

And that was the thing. I think Ders is so rich, his family is so rich and powerful that he could just get out of things. Yeah, you just don't see that happening anymore. No, that's right. Really wealthy people, particularly in a real estate sort of environment, just getting away with things and- No. And abusing power.

Certainly not New York City. Certainly not New York City. And I think that- You've never seen that in New York. Yeah. Beautiful city. That's one of the things that I think is, you know, people say, oh, things used to be better. Well, that used to happen and doesn't anymore. So, you know, I rest my case.

Yeah. Proof is proof. So yeah, apparently McCormack would tell her sister Mary, as well as her friends and pretty, she told a lot of people, and this is pretty chilling. If anything happens to me, don't let Bob get away with it. She was starting to think, Oh my gosh. That's awful. Yes. Uh, and I don't know if it's a bit of a spoiler, but he gets away with it. Anyway, he doesn't get away. You know,

there's a lot to come, but yeah, brutally. Um, he basically gets away with it. So that's on her friends. Yes. She was pretty clear. They took an oath. Don't let him get away with it. And they did.

Some friends. Also, Mary, the sister, Bagley writes, Mary has a vivid recollection of the phone call. She got the week of her sister's disappearance. She got the call from Robert Durst, from Bobby and he called up after she had been missing, said, have you seen Cathy? She said, no, I haven't, but I've been meaning to talk to you about her. And he cut her off saying, Oh, well, I'm going to the police and hung up. And Mary, who's now Mary Hughes, remembers that she hung up the phone, turned to her husband Tom and said, I think he killed her.

Oh my gosh. Wow. That's horrific. Yeah. It's so grim. Over the following months, not a lot of progress was made in the case. There was no body found, so it remained a missing person's case. But this didn't stop her friends and family from doing their own investigation. The police were sort of, they had their suspicions,

but they felt like they weren't able to make any progress. And Jones writes, a lot of what Jones writes is in present tense. So apologies for the people who find tense switching very frustrating, but okay. What are you going to misquote Jones? Yeah, that'd be disrespectful. Jones writes, a group of Cathy's friends investigate the Durst's, Cathy and Bob's Westchester home and discover Cathy's mail in the trash unopened. They go to the police who have formed their own suspicions. By this time, the doorman now admits he only saw Cathy from behind and from a distance. And despite Durst's claim that he spoke to his wife from a payphone, the nearest payphone

is miles from his house. And he's got a phone at home. It would have made no sense. Yeah. Why a payphone? Why a payphone? Oh, is it because that would be a lot harder to trace the call and prove that the call actually happened?

Where they live in? Miles from a payphone? Yeah. They're, you know, it's not like in the hustle and bustle this place. This isn't in New York. This is in Vermont, home of the, the whoopies. And the creamies. And the creamies, I should say. Man, I haven't had a creamy, but I'm dying to have a whoopie.

Like for marriage and then some. We'll go to Vermont. We'll have our whoopies. It seems like maybe this doorman, maybe he did see someone he thought was Cathy or maybe he got a bit of cash to say, oh, you maybe saw this person. Also it's possible that the phone call that, uh, the school received saying she was calling in sick. Maybe that wasn't actually from Cathy. That was from a woman and I assumed it was Cathy, but yeah. Um, now there's quite a lot of doubt about it. Call me now and do

an impression of me calling in sick. Okay. Uh, who am I speaking to? I'm, so you're me. I'm you. Okay. Dave, you be the phone. Why are you answering? Because I feel, am I me? Because I'm calling in sick and this is where I work. Okay, but I'm- Oh, okay, sorry, sorry. I thought you were the reception for Albert Einstein and I'm like, why does Matt work

there? No, no, no. I'm calling in sick. I'm giving Matt an opportunity. All I was trying to get to, have you seen Mrs. Doubtfire? It's pretty easy to just do a high pitched voice and pass off as a woman. I'll be the phone, I'll be the phone.

That's the way I was trying to go with this whole fucking bit. But you've asked so many questions. Well, I'm not gonna do a Robin Williams thing. I'm gonna try and do an accurate Jess. I mean, if an actor can't ask questions, they're not gonna give you the best outcome. Well, when you're calling yourself an actor and you're playing the role of phone.

I've been cast. Go. Okay. Why do you have a phone? I'll just answer the phone. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, I'm just answering. Try to clean this away from me.

Sorry, the phone's on silent. The phone's on silent. There's another phone. Hello? Hello? Oh, hi Jess. What's up? I'm sick. Oh, hi Jess, what's up? I'm sick.

Oh no. I'm not sure why you haven't just messaged the group chat. But, okay, what do you want me to do about it? I've got my period! Okay. Beep beep. Beep beep. Call waiting. Sorry Jess, just one moment. Okay! Hello! call waiting. Sorry, Jess, just one moment. OK. Hello.

It's Jess here. I'm just calling in. Just calling to tell you I'm feeling very well and I'll be there in five minutes. Jess, I just had you on the other line saying you were sick. You just got beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. I'm actually, yeah, feeling a bit better now. So, yeah, me and Jess will be in soon. Who's this? It's Jess. Beep, beep.

Hang on one second, Jess. I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. Yes, hello. Hi, Jess again, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be there after all. I've got diarrhea. And you period. Yes! That's a bad day.

I'm having a bad one. So, yeah, yeah. Hopefully Mesa is free to fill in for me. Anyway. I am saying, alright. See, I just- That's how easy it is. Yes.

So it could have just been Durst himself. That's what I was trying to say. Yes. Um, I think that may- Do you think that's admissible in a courtroom? Uh, what part of it? Well, just to be like, jury, this is how easy it is. And then you point to the judge and say, all right, judge, you're playing this role.

Yeah. I'm playing this role. Judge, close your eyes. I'm gonna take you on an adventure. Um, so yeah, uh, we will try and insert lightness in the cracks here. Yeah, that's right. So Durst, this absolute fuckhead, starts withdrawing from the press and he appoints his friend Susan Berman, who we heard about before, rider and daughter of Las Vegas gangster. He made her his unofficial spokesperson.

So any press asking about, you know, the case and his wife, because, you know, to the media, he's looking for his missing wife. Right. He's possibly grieving. Yes. He'd be very scared and worried for sure. And despite Cathy's family's concerns, the case went cold. In 1988, six years after the disappearance, Durst started dating a New York City real

estate broker named Deborah Lee Shariton. In the documentary, they've got a few scenes of weird stuff with her. She had an all female firm, but they made them do these tests like, like that was smelt and stuff, like making sure their scent was OK. If I'm remembering, I haven't watched the series in a while, but it was like a bit odd. So we don't we only employ women, but not stinky. Yeah. And I think they were weighed and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a very pretty empowering. I just need were weighed and stuff like that. Yeah. What are they, my GP? Pretty empowering.

I just need a new script on the scales. Hello. It's your doctor, Jess. Just just checking in, see if you're good. What are you weighing today, mate? Oh, I haven't. We heard you were sick. I haven't weighed myself for a bit.

You might be a bit sick, so just thought I'd call and find out. Also heard Aunt Flo's visiting. So you're probably getting into a bit more chocolate than usual. Aren't you, you disgusting little fanny? Okay, all right. All right, you took little words right out of my mind. So it sounds like you're on top of it. Thanks. All right, Jess.

May I put your husband on? Yeah, let the adults speak now. Yeah, well, I let the adults speak now. So in 1990 Durst, and he did this quietly without telling her family, he divorced Cathy, citing, you know, she was absent or whatever. And he also sold their cottage before moving to a New York City apartment with Shariton. The woman he started dating. But this didn't last long. He moved out after nine months, but she kept the apartment.

In 1994, his father picked Durst's younger brother Douglas, Douglas Durst. Dougie Durst. Dougie Durst to take over the family business. Okay. Do you think MC Dougie Durst is good? It's actually so good. Yeah, I think it's really good. MC Dougie Durst.

He should do weddings by Mitzvahs, et cetera. If you're- He does it all. But their families actually, unfortunately their family business is real estate and not DJs. Damn it. Yeah, I think, I mean, can I show you a photo of this guy? He says he has the look of a cartoon character, maybe like a, who's that? SNL guy who was like the other wedding singer in the wedding singer.

There he goes. He's losing his mind. Yeah, Johnny Lovitz. Yeah, I reckon John Lovitz should play him if. Yeah. Yeah, I reckon John Lovitz should play him if. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, big time.

John Lovitz with the glasses on, little bit of David Soushey as well. Yeah, yeah. DJ Duggee Durst played by John Lovitz and in some scenes when he's wearing glasses, David Soushey. Maybe it depends on the tone of the film. True, yeah.

It might end up being that thing like, where, where there were two Capote movies at the same time. Yeah. Different takes. Yes. One was an Academy Award. That's John Lovitz. Yes.

Soushey misses out. Somebody has to. But Lovitz did a fantastic job. But yeah, so he gets passed over by his younger brother and that he's hurt by this. Oh, he doesn't take that well. Doesn't take it well. And he just basically breaks off contact with his family over it. In 1999, according to Jones, after receiving a bogus tip about the location of her body

from a serial public masturbator. Okay. Sorry, I didn't expect that. I'm thinking of something like a public hoaxer or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking. Okay, this seems unrelated, but they also seem probably unreliable. Often gives these fake tips.

No, no, they're just masturbating everywhere. Yeah. So he was done for, you know, wanking outside. Yeah. So he was, he was done for, you know, wanking, wanking outside. Yep. And he was like, yeah, apparently he was like, yeah, I've got, I've got some information for you on another one of your cases, but it turned out to be false, but it still led to the case being reopened. And this time now is a possible homicide because the information that this guy was lying about

was the location of the body. So they then searched the Durst Old Cottage in South Salem, as well as the nearby lake but found nothing. Now we've talked about Susan Berman a couple of times, the writer and daughter of the mobster. Let's get into her a little bit more now. So her dad, the mobster, was a guy called Davey Berman, a Las Vegas mobster who was Bugsy Siegel's partner. And he took over the business from Bugsy Siegel.

Bugsy's a great mobster. There must be a few Bugsys, right? Yeah. So Bugsy Malone is that one? Yeah. He seems like one of the big ones. One of the big Bugsys. I reckon Dave could pull off Bugsy. Is that one? Yeah. Yeah. That's, he seems like one of the big ones. One of the big Bugsies.

Uh, I reckon Dave could pull off Bugsie. Yeah, I think so. Is it because of his eyes? Yeah. What about Davey? Can I pull that off? I heard that and thought, I think you'd pull off Davey. Davey boy.

You want to try it? Yeah. Go for a rebrand. Okay. We'll try it. I'm going to do it organically. I'm not going to force it now. Thank you. Davey, Bugsy, Warnocky. I also don't really call you Dave. You used to drive a VW as well. Yes, I was very weird. Yeah. But I wasn't a Bugsy. In my 20s I was very weird. Stay weird Dave. Davey. So yeah, he was a mobster, kind of a big underground mover and shaker in Vegas. But to Susan Berman, he was just dad.

For Vulture, Lisa DePaulo wrote, he'd pick Susan up from school and help her with her math homework in the counting room. Math is what Americans call math. Oh, okay. Thank you. In case you were like, what? Math. What's that? Huh?. In case you were like, what? What's that? Huh? That's maths.

Is it like singular? I think they just do one sum. Seven times 7.49. It's a great one. Wow. And it's not technically a sum, is it? That's addition. Doesn't matter.

Equation one. I didn't even do a single math. He's having a major. Oh my God. What's one less than math? Math minus math is what I do. Math. That's you. Yes.

So he'd teach her math homework in the counting room using casino chips. That's nice. It's like if you're going to learn math at someone's workplace, a casino is perfect. Perfect. He taught her how to play gin at the age of four. This was so she'd have something to do with the bodyguards who lived in their house. She just grew up thinking they were just friends and uncles. Yeah, the, yeah, the fellas around.

It wasn't until much later in life that she realized who they actually were or all these other things. They're weird, but when that's the only thing you know, it's not that weird. She was like, oh, that's why the windows were so high off the ground. So there'd be no drive-by shootings and why they never had the keys because apparently that's a mobster thing. If you have your keys and you get shot, then your family's in trouble. So the keys were left with the security guard and stuff like that. Oh, right. So they let you in. Yeah. You got a doorman. Basically. Yeah. And they played gin with toddlers. Yeah. Sure. She was wondering why her onesies are made of Kevlar. Yeah. I just thought everyone had bulletproof onesies.

There were things like she'd get whisked away at different times, like, oh, we've got to lay low. So she was whisked off to other cities. And she's like, oh, I just thought it was fun adventures. We were on a holiday. I got to have ice cream when we did that. It was the best. Wow.

Her dad died though, at the age of 53, which is not unusual in that line of business, but what was unusual, it was of a heart attack. I was going to joke of natural causes. Yeah, it was of natural causes. Wow. But do you think looking over your shoulder your whole life, that's probably not- Probably not. Yeah.

Not great. Yeah. She later wrote that she never appreciated the irony that he was maybe the only gangster of that era to die a natural death. A month before her father died, he threw a lavish 12th birthday party at the Riviera where Liberate, she sang happy birthday to her. That is a big party. This article has lines like, to her, the real king of Vegas wasn't Elvis.

It was her dad, though she did know Elvis. Elvis was just some guy that just came in and serenaded her. Yeah, later on she's like, oh, he was a singer. Oh, I just thought he was an uncle or something. Nice guy. Yeah. Shit at gin. Yeah. Absolutely fleeced him. So she didn't know that he was a mobster until adulthood.

And finding out about his dark past didn't tarnish her memory of him. As DePolo writes, his FBI wanted poster was hung prominently in her living room and she carried his mug shot in her wallet and would quote, whip it out the way the rest of us showed baby pictures, according to an old colleague. Everyone else was showing babies, just like, check out my dead dad. Okay. Great, that's really ended this conversation. Yeah.

Well, that's my break done. So, I'm going to go back to my desk now. Yeah. Yeah, I'll see you. No, I don't know if I can go out for drinks later. Yeah. Yeah, I'll see you. No, I don't know if I can go out for drinks later. Yeah. But it was funny because apparently it was working in the media where people were going,

oh, you're not any relation to Davey. She's like, yeah, it's my dad. And she for a while she was like, oh, that's interesting. And then she started looking into it and really figured out the extent of her father's underworld environment. Honestly, is she a bit stupid? How did she not know until like she was 20 years? She's working in the media?

Yeah. She has no critical thinking skills. All that stuff's adding up now and there's articles and that FBI wanted proceeds hanging in the lounge room. That's what that means. That came later. I mean, I'm messing around with the timeline a little bit. You did say she didn't figure it out till she was an adult.

Yeah. Well, if that's all you know. Yeah. I fully know that feeling of being like, oh, of course. Yes. But you grow up and you've built this sort of. But it's usually about like things your parents said you couldn't do. And then you go, oh, wait.

Yeah. You know, like the TV doesn't work on weekdays or something. you go, all right, our TV doesn't work on weekdays. The bruised bit of banana is the healthiest bit. Exactly. And then you grow up and you go, oh, fucking. I fully realised that bruising when I was an adult. I was like, oh my dad, you are diabolical. How would it get any healthier?

It doesn't make, if anything, that's like, I reckon if you really zoomed in on those rotting bruises, there'd probably be some bad stuff in there. Not in the 90s there wasn't. So yeah, she ended up writing a book about it called Easy Street and when she did this research she was like, holy shit, he was actually a- maybe she started thinking, oh, he was involved, but oh, he was like a boss. It's a weird wild ancestry DNA. Like most people find out, oh, we used to own a pub in rural Victoria. But she's like, oh, my dad was this huge mobster.

Yeah. I thought everyone had Liberace sing Happy Birthday. It wasn't until I was 28, I realised that I was, who sang at your 12th birthday? I didn't know their name. In fact, no one sang. No one. My family? What do you mean? Oh, that's weird.

Is your uncle Liberace? What's going on? I'm so confused. So DePaulo writes at Easy Street, this book she wrote, was published to rave reviews in 1981 and was bought by Universal Studios for $350,000. Which in today's money is a shit tongue. And the movie never got made though. And apparently, yeah, that bumped Susan out a bit, but surely that $350,000.

That's a bit of padding. Yeah. But when you've grown up the daughter of a mob boss, 350k is probably, what? Yeah. And apparently she was good at spending cash. Like she, she burnt through it. Right. Because. But after the dad dies, is the family still wealthy or is it kind of like, we

lived a wild lifestyle and now dad's gone. They're sort of fending for themselves. Yeah, I think it was a bit like that. Her mum was sort of wasn't around either. So she was off at, you know, another uncle's place kind of thing. And he was in and out of jail, her new sort of carer. Oh, right. And so, yeah, I think money was left to her. Like her dad tried to look after her, but yeah, it wasn't that much in the scheme of things. Or she certainly burnt through it anyway.

And then like she burnt through that 350 grand, which is a fortune in 981. I mean, you've got to get Lirati to sing at your 25th birthday. Yeah. And he is not cheap. He's not cheap. Even for family friends. So Berman and Robert Dyrsk were close. You'll read that they were best friends sometimes. I don't know if anyone was really Robert Dyrsk's best friend. I don't know, but she referred to him as like a brother and often dedicated her books to him. DePaulo writes, it was always Bobby this, Bobby that, wonderful Bobby, a friend recalls. Yet when Susan tried to reach him in 2000 to borrow money, because she burnt

through what she had, she was irked to find he'd changed his phone number. So it's like, oh, best friend probably doesn't do that without telling you. So she wrote to him via the Durst organization and he ended up coming through for us, sending two checks worth 200, sorry, 25 grand each. And he, she's like, I just want to borrow money. He said, no, keep it. It's yours. There are theories that maybe he might've been buying her silence. She like, she was very close to him.

Maybe she knew things. Okay. That's a theory theory like no one knows for sure Yeah Then later that year On the 11th of December seemingly out of the blue Durst marries the real estate broker Debra Lee Sharaton who they lived together for nine months. Yeah. And that was years ago. Yeah. Like 12 years in between.

They'd split up and yeah, right, okay. And the ceremony, it doesn't sound like it was a big deal. It was secret and only lasted for 15 minutes. It was just like a, let's get this. And that's a bad thing you're saying. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. You're judging people who get married privately and in 15 minute ceremonies. I'm not saying that, but I am saying that there are certain things that a spouse doesn't

have to say in court. I think there's- Right, because you're saying- Spousal confidence. And just, just reiterate it, but I'm just catching up that they had broken up years before, is what you're saying, and then suddenly they're married again. Gotcha. I think they stayed in touch, I guess, but they weren't in an ongoing relationship.

Suddenly they're married. Yeah. Okay. Right. According to Jones, the rabbi that presided over the ceremony was hired out of the phone book and later told the Daily News that, quote, Durst was rather taciturn. He was not buoyant and didn't smile. On his wedding day. So does actually sound more and more like your wedding. Yeah. Were you quite taciturn? And also follow up question. Am I saying that right?

Tansy first part, yes. Tansy second part, I don't know. part yes, and the second part I don't know. Tasseturn, reserved or uncommunicative in speech saying little. Yeah, that's me. David am I saying the word right? I believe you are saying it right but all you have to say is I do, right? Yeah. So say the word. You want me to be chatting away? I think this was a chatty rabbi and you can get them sometimes. He's like how about this weather? Fuck. Like I had small talk. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh.

Follow the footy? No. Shut up. Maybe I'd be less taciturn if I could get a bloody wording. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Now, another sad turn here on the 24th of December in the year 2000.

Susan Berman is found dead in her LA home. This is the daughter of the mafia man. Oh my gosh. And a good friend of Robert Durst. She was found with a gunshot wound to her head. And according to Jones, there were, and he does it in present tense. Okay. There are no signs of forced entry and all the valuables remain in place. The main piece of evidence is an anonymous letter addressed to the Beverly it in present tense. There are no signs of forced entry and all her valuables remain in place. The main piece of evidence is an anonymous letter addressed to the Beverly Hills police, Beverly Hills being misspelled, which informs them that there is a cadaver, that's the word they used in Berman's house. Though Cathy Durst's friends suspect she was

murdered to keep her from telling the police what she knew about the disappearance. And it is a murder. It's not, it's definitely not. Yes. Self-inflicted or anything like that. Yeah, definitely. Like it's clear that someone has murdered this woman and then a letter has been sent. Yes, exactly.

Wow. The LAPD considers Durst a possible suspect, but focuses more on her manager, Noel Brenner, which as it turns out is they were focusing on the wrong guy. So yeah, there were different theories, like she's the door of a mob guy. Are they worried that she's going to write another book? But no, it sounds like she wrote about them in a pretty positive way. If anything, she wrote about them with childlike wonder. She had no fucking idea what was going on. She can't name any mobsters.

She didn't even know there were mobsters. Exactly. And also most of those guys that she would be talking about were all dead. Oh, so it's not like it seems like on the face of you go, Oh, daughter of a mob boss who's now writing books, maybe someone's trying to silence her, but people like, Oh, daughter of a mob boss who's now writing books. Maybe someone's trying to silence her, but people are like, Oh, it doesn't really make any sense. Yeah. Yeah. Now this is a, so that there's kind of three sections to this story. The first one was about Cathy. Second one was about Susan. And now this third one.

And when I say three sections, then there's probably a fourth after that. Thrilling. A bit of an epilogue. As I go, I'll be like, OK, no, five sections. Just don't even put a number to it. Just say, and now I am beginning a new section. Yes, OK, great. I think that's nice.

And AJ will tidy that up in post. No, there'll be no need. It's perfect. Great. Yeah. I think that's nice. And AJ will tidy that up in post. No, there'll be no need. It's perfect. Okay. Great. Even this bit? Yeah. It's real.

No, you answer. No answer. Okay. Um, oh shit, shit. Where is it? I've lost my phone. Oh well, they'll call back. Oh well, they'll call back. All right.

So we're heading to Galveston in Texas and writing for Vanity Fair. Another one. I can't believe how many great names in the story, but even the journalists have cracking names. Ned Zeman. So Ned Zeman writes, the Island of Galveston sits off the south eastern coast of Texas, about an hour's drive from Houston. It's an affordable beach town known for its peaceful lifestyle and good fishing. On September the 30th in 2001, a man named David Aveena stood

on a rocky slip of beach near his home, fishing with his stepdaughter and son. Stepson. Whilst casting the boy, his stepson noticed a body floating in the water. Oh my God, another body. Caught in a Xemun. Avena approached, looked into the shallow water and saw something floating there. A dead pig, his boy guessed, but Avena knew otherwise. He was a surgical nurse and he'd seen human corpses in many states of disrepair.

And none looked like a pig. Yes. But he did say he'd never encountered a naked torso shorn of its head and limbs floating at his feet. So it was a bit, it was new, but he's like, that's human. Oh God, that's grim. By nightfall, the place was crawling with news trucks and police. Neighbours reported that a number of trash bags had been floating offshore. In time, the police found bags containing two severed arms and two severed legs. They also contained Metamucil packets, a receipt dated the 28th of September from Charmers Hardware, plastic cups, paper

towels, an edition of USA Today, at least the cover of it, and the packaging for a bow saw. On the newspaper was a delivery address. 2213 Avenue K, Galveston. This is still a Zeman. The Olive Brown House at 2213 had a little backyard which bordered an alley where tenants put out their garbage cans. Once placed in the alley, the garbage ceased to be private property. Good news for the cops who don't even have to get a warrant to search these bins. Oh. And they wasted no time. Inside the garbage cans, they found an empty trash bag box, a Metamucil box, plastic cups, paper towels, and packaging for a drop cloth.

How backed up are these people? Yeah, a lot of Metamucil. Multiple Metamucil boxes. Yeah. I'm not even, yeah, I don't even know if we get to the bottom or why the Metamucil's there. They're trying to get to the bottom. Yeah. I was gonna say the same thing.

I was like, he said bottom.. I was like, you said bottom. Bottom, that sounds like a poo thing. I fell on my bottom. They're trying to get to the bottom. Most of the items had been purchased at Charmers Hardware, where the receipt was found in the box. It's a Metamucil. It's all tied together so neatly.

Like, I don't know if someone's... It's suspiciously neat, isn't it? Yeah. Stupid, it's almost like, come on. That's what it feels like, but I think it's just stupid. Oh, okay. There's also, like, even you go out there there obviously the same Metamucil's well they they matched them via serial number and it was the same Metamucil package.

Okay, wow. Police also discovered the packaging for a four inch paring knife, a spent 22 calibre shell casing, a pair of men's briefs, a bloody sock, an eviction notice addressed to a Morris Black and an eye exam receipt made out to a Robert Durst. What? This all comes back to the first guy? Yes. Oh my god. Fuckin' hell. Who's all that coming? And who's Morris? Yeah. Is that going to be section five? No, no. Morris is the, the guy with that head. Okay. Oh, he really was evicted then.

Yeah. Sorry, bad taste. Yeah, that is bad taste. If you want a really swift eviction, get onto that Metamucil. God, he's good. That's really good. That is really good. So still with Xamon.

What could be Xamon? Because it is spelled like se So still with Zeman. Could be Zeman. Because it is spelled like semen with a Z. Let's just call him Jizz. No, we'll call him Zeman. Zeman. I think Zeman's great. Okay. Ned Zeman actually, if you're going to put Ned, Ned Zeman is good, but Ned Zeman is fantastic.

Yeah. The E, yeah. It sounds like a Led Zeppelin cover band. Yes! Yes! That's really good. That's really good. We should call him.

You guys are on absolute fire today. Let's call him. We've got an offer for you. Ned, we've got an idea. Ned, are you sitting there? We're about to change your life, mate. So we're still with Zamen, who we're going to be talking to. We're going to be talking to you.

We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. We're going to be talking to you. Ned, we've got an idea. Ned, are you sitting there? We're about to change your life, mate. So we're still with Zamen, who obviously, you know, was writing by day.

Busting out some very high pitch vocals by night. Yeah. So he writes, Morris Black lived downstairs in apartment one. Durst was not listed as a tenant. So they're like, oh, it's interesting that his stuff was mixed up here. Then October the third, police executed a search warrant on Black's apartment, and there they found blood in the kitchen sink, the bathroom shower,

and on the carpet. They also found blood between Black's apartment and the unit across the hall. That unit's tenant was a Dorothy signer. Police searched her apartment. It was sparsely furnished and had no telephone. What it did have though was another section of that USA Today newspaper that was found. Is this section five? Section five was the paper.

Whoa. That is interesting though. That is interesting. That is weird. Yeah. They also found more trash bags, a drop cloth, perhaps the one from the packaging, plus bloody boots and a bloody four inch paring knife. Preliminary blood tests turned out positive in various parts of the apartment, police said. Also, there was a cut in the kitchen's linoleum floor and blood had seeped through the cut,

soaking the wood beneath the flooring. The tenant, Miss Sarno, wasn't home. In fact, she was rarely home. The landlord, Klaus Dillman, had seen her only four times. Klaus Dillman and other. Another amazing name. That's amazing, Klaus. Her lights were on rarely and her blinds were always closed.

She was very quiet. Very quiet, in fact. When she showed up to rent the place about six months earlier, she communicated only in writing. I can't talk, she scribbled. A throat condition, she indicated. Oh my gosh, that's so sus. She always paid with unsigned money orders. On occasion, a friend stayed with her. And once or twice, Dilman had chatted with him. The friend's name was Robert Durst. Sometimes Dorothy would enter

the house and minutes later, Durst would leave. Sometimes it was the other way around. Dorothy liked to visit the local library. She wore glasses which sometimes were held together with tape. Every now and then her neighbors saw Durst smoking on the porch. He was shy and polite and avoided eye contact. But he wanted quiet and sometimes he yelled at school kids to keep their voices down. He took issue with the barking of neighborhood dogs. He barked back. That'll help. Yeah, that doesn't exacerbate the problem.

No, it feels like that would be more of a dougie durst. He's trying to be more like his brother. Yeah. He's like, how do I get the big gig? Still with Zemun. None of the tenants got along with Morris Black, though. He was 71, lonely and cranky, always whining that he was about to die. Eventually he was correct on that.

Always in everyone's business. Further garbage sifting turned up more evidence. Police said a 22 calibre pistol and two clips of ammunition. In the meantime, neighbours said that on the night before the torso was found, they'd seen Durst loading bags into a silver wagon like car. Police found a vehicle identification number registered to Durst. Was it a Volkswagen? It was not a Volkswagen. It was a silver Honda CR-V. My actual dream car when I was a teenager.

CR-V. CR-V. When I got on my P's, my dream was to drive a Honda CR-V. Yeah. And I never achieved that dream. What a dream that was. Yeah, I had the same dream. I CIV. I never achieved that dream. What a dream that was. Yeah, I had the same dream. I loved them. God, they were cool. They were like little mini four wheel drives. Yeah, they were so cool. I wanted like an old Falcon

wagon. Yeah, that's cool. We got a different time. We didn't, you didn't have. Or a Toyota Celica. Yeah, they were cool. I love them. So cool. Um, then on October the 9th, so we're like a couple of weeks later, or a week or so later, police spotted the Honda traveling through Galveston and pulled it over. When Officer Gary Jones looked through the car's window, he saw in addition to the driver, a bow saw. It's all like fallen together pretty straight forward.

It was like the bow saw's like seatbelted in, just sitting next to it. Yeah, he's talking to it. It's got googly eyes on it. I love it. I'm looking at what a bowsaw is. Okay, great. Yep, that is what I was picturing, so that's good. Now I feel pretty powerful. Can you show me? Because I'm imagining... Yep.

Yep. See? We belong at Bunnings. Yeah, totally. I was imagining the handle going over the top. Yes, yeah belong at Bunnings. Yeah, totally. I was imagining like the handle going over the top. Yes, yeah. Like a bow. Like a bow, but one side of the sword. What are the chances? No relation. So it turns out Durst had moved to Galveston, perhaps to lay low.

He was getting heat from, you know, a couple of suspicious deaths that were close to people he was close to. Yeah. And to do so, he posed as a mute woman named Dorothy Siner, a name he borrowed from a girl he went to school with. He was busted for the murder and as discussed, there was a lot of evidence against him. You know, it was felt pretty open and shut. Word got back to McCormack's family, his first wife, and they were hopeful that the man they were sure had killed their Cathy was finally going to be brought to some

sort of justice. Right. And when Durst was arrested, he didn't put up a fight. He was charged with murder, but released on bail of $300,000. Apparently this was kind of a loophole, but in Texas, at least at the time, you had to be offered bail unless he basically had killed a cop or like there was a certain level that would mean that you were held without bail. Probably done to dismember a man and throw him in the ocean. That's- Yeah.

So, right, not a flight risk. Yeah. While- While impersonating, like, while committing fraud also. Mm. And- In hiring that apartment. Has incredibly deep family pockets, so $300,000. It's nothing. Nothing. It's probably got that on him.

Who cares? Yeah, well, he- I mean, part of the reason maybe he married again, she, he was able to, part of it sounds like it was so that if he died, the money wouldn't go back to his family. He added, you know, a chunk of his own cash as well. Yeah. And he got a couple of million a year from a trust, I think, as well. And he wanted to make sure if he died that this, his wife, you know, by convenience, she would get it instead of the family. So she was the one who was able

to put up the 300 grand and an arrangement was scheduled for the 16th of October. But this might surprise you. He was a no show. What? But where was Dorothy? Yes. Yeah. People did say, they were like, oh, we've never, we've never seen him together. Dorothy and, and I keep wanting to call him Fred. Dorothy and Bobby. According to Zamen in November, Durst was spotted in Plano, Texas. So there's a big manhunt. He's on like America's Most Wanted on TV and stuff like that. By the time police got to Plano though, which I'm sure is not how you say it, Plano, Texas, maybe it's exactly so.

By the time that the cops got there, he was gone. There are alleged Durst sightings in all sorts of places, in Northern California, in homeless shelters, even in Manhattan, after all, that's where his wife lived. And you know, he had places to stay there. But then there was a break in the case. Another, like you think of how sloppy the other thing was, get ready for a bit more sloppiness So a man-fitting Durst description was held at a grocery store in Hanover Township, Pennsylvania for stealing a sandwich

Amazingly, this is how he was found Despite having $500 on him in cash. He was caught stealing a $5.49 chicken salad sandwich. It turned out Durst had been staying in a hotel nearby using another alias. This one's fantastic. Emilio Vinoni. He'd shaved off his hair and eyebrows. In the store where he was caught, he was, he'd cut himself shaving and he was trying to put a bandaid on him. Well, and then he had not just the five hundred dollars in cash on him. He had thirty seven grand in his car. There was no reason to shoplift a sandwich. No, I mean, good that he's caught, but what an idiot. Oh yeah, massive idiot. Yeah. He and Eve couldn't explain.

He's like, you know, I don't know what's going on here. And somebody was almost like he wanted to get caught. Yeah, it's like a self-sabotage. Wanted to get caught. Why did he, he just, he was caught and he went on the run. According to Zamen, locals had seen him wearing a brown wig and a white mustache and talking to himself. Inside the trunk of the car that he was now driving, cops found two handguns, a stash of marijuana. He apparently is a big chuffer. 37k all in hundreds. And Zaman suggests this was possibly the end of his nest egg.

Weeks earlier, his wife, because the cops had, his assets have been frozen as well, obviously. Weeks earlier, his wife, Charlton, tried to withdraw 1.8 million from one of his accounts, but she wasn't able to do it because they were frozen. The car was traced back to Rent-a-Reck in Mobile, Alabama. It had been picked up on the 17th of October. And this is like, to me, this is weird stuff. The name he used, the fake name he used here on the rental agreement was Morris Black. Yuck.

So. Are we going to get to why he killed Morris Black? Well, it's, I'm afraid it's a bit of a mystery, but. He was a Winger. Winger it's a bit of a mystery, but he was a Winder. Winder may be a bit nosy. It's I think that's the main theory is that he probably heard something he shouldn't have heard. Some say that maybe it was this one, like it was so messy, maybe it was a real heat of the moment thing.

But yeah, I don't like Bobby. He wasn't a big admitter of things. Sure. But like, and that is weird though to check in under the name of the person he killed. Yeah, that's pretty gross. So he's, you know, held in jail for the next few years waiting for his trial for the murder of Morris Black. Courtney Jones, he argues that he killed Black in self-defence after the older man threatened him with a gun, although he admits, quote, I did dismember him.

In self-defence. I mean, I think I think the idea was that was he panicked. He's like, I've I've killed in self-defense now. I've panicked and I don't want to get done for murder. So I dismembered him and got rid of the try to get rid of the body. Yeah, I never believe me, but I didn't do it. Yeah. In cold blood. During the trial, he also admits that his marriage to Chatern was quite a marriage of

convenience to give her power of attorney, etc. She's in the audits going, what the fuck? Wait, what? I love you. I got a tattoo for you. I thought he was Tassiturn. For People Magazine, Maria Yagoda writes, another great name, the Texas jury believed Erce claimed that he

killed Black in self-defense and subsequently disposed of the body in a panic. And on the 11th of November, 2003, he was found not guilty. You're kidding me. They bought the story. That it was self-defense. Yeah. I don't know how often that would happen, that self-defense leads to you carving up the body with a bow saw. And then going on the run and using that man's name. Yeah.

But you know, rich people can get great lawyers. Not guilty, wow. Yeah. And not even like they can't even get in for second degree murder or something like that, because is it because they went after him for the first? Yeah. And if they believe it's self-defense then, yeah. The following year he pleads guilty to tampering with evidence though and jumping bail. Hard to argue against that. Yes.

And that led to a sentence of five years with credit for time served. And that meant he was released on parole the following year. He broke the conditions of his bail though pretty quickly, returning to the scene of his bail though, pretty quickly, returning to the scene of the crime. What the fuck? And also going, he was basically meant to not leave a certain vicinity of his house. He also, yeah, he traveled and went to a mall

and this one was unlucky. He got busted at the mall as he bumped into the judge who presided over his murder trial. No! And apparently, like they were both walking up He got busted at the mall as he bumped into the judge who presided over his murder trial. No. And apparently, like, they were both walking up to each other going, where do I know this guy from? And then they had an awkward conversation because the judge didn't- the judge didn't set the parole terms.

So he didn't even know it was only later. He was like, oh, yeah, I wasn't meant to be there. Ah, that's pretty funny. They made small talk. Yeah. That would be so weird, wouldn't it? Especially if the judge is thinking, I reckon he did it. Yeah.

Yeah, and apparently the judge was apparently during the case, he was, Durst was really aggressive to him. So it was like at first he was like, oh shit, what's, what's going to happen here when they bumped into each other. And then he's like, oh, I can tell he's actually really nervous. So he felt pretty safe and they just had an awkward conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Just buying a new sweater. Yeah. And then I'm going to go get a Wendy's. Yeah. The judge, the judge was interviewed on a, on chat show and one of the questions was, what shop were you in? Were you a cross dresser?

Were you buying women's dresses? And the judge was like, no, we were just walking through the center of the mall. It's so funny. I mean, I was cringing so hard reading the transcript. I haven't seen the footage. Maybe it was maybe it wasn't awkward, but it was like, oh, swinging a miss there, bro. Yeah. Breaking the parole man, he was back in jail. But great lawyer and the lawyer said, the parole was the parole conditions are a bit strict.

So he got him out again. And what a man can't go to the mall. I can't. Man can't return to the scene of the crime. I thought this was land of the free. And the judge is like, oh, yeah, it is. That is good. Yeah. Jeez. What an orator. Am I saying that right? That's what the judge would say.

So yeah, first of March 2006, he was once again a free man. So he could have gone to the Melbourne Commonwealth Games. Is that right? Oh man. Were they in September that year? Yeah, they were about that time. They could have come with me to see the weightlifting or the men's gymnastics. Yeah, saw some basketballs, saw some athletics.

I didn't see anything. Went to the opening ceremony. I was in Europe. Oh, that must have been awful. Well my parents took me to a bunch of things because I missed the Sydney Olympics because I had chickenpox and they felt bad. So I went to the opening ceremony of the Commonwealth Games. Which was fine.

At the G? Yeah, I think so. Who was the big act? Doesn't quite have the same budget. The church. Church. Oh, church. I'm not sure.

Church. It's pre-churches. The church. Before they went plural. Under the Mephile tonight. Yes. What a tune. Did a scene with Steve Kilby, the singer. Oh my gosh.

In between takes, I'm wearing a He-Man outfit. And in between takes, he's playing himself. Of course he is. And I... You're playing He-Man. In between takes, I go, sorry, Steve, I'm not really an actor. And he goes, no kidding. Oh, that is brutal.

It was brutal. Like, yeah, I think, you know, I think we were joking together, but. Is he an actor? No. Great. He's probably, you know, I thought it was funny. I'm ready to fight. That's, yeah. I see that guy.

That's, that's absurd. Jesse, you can tell him, I saw you at the Commaoth games. You're not a singer. Yeah. No kidding. No kidding. He was like, what? I was like, that's for Matt Stewart.

He was like, who? You might know him as He-Man. What? I'm gonna ask what this is for. What was this for? It's for Matt Stewart. He was like, who? You might know him as He-Man. What? I'm gonna ask what this is for. What was this for? It was for Under the Milky Way. Ah, of course.

Yeah, which you were both on as well. That's right. Dave as the bandit. I was the bandit. Yes, I had a radio, a local radio host. And Jess as- Lorraine. Lorraine, an assistant to the mayor or something like that. Yeah, I was pretty dumb.

Acting. Acting. Shane Dunlop writes women. Pretty dumb. Hmm, interesting Shane. Uh, Yesogeny's showing. Yesogeny. Yesogeny.

Back to this. So yes, he's out and about 2006. Not really, no, no big breaks in any sort of case or anything. And in 2010, people are interested in this story and also that he's getting away, like seemingly getting away. This one's as clear as anything. There's some doubt still about the other two. You know how the public wanker guy got them investigating it again. Did that bring up any new evidence or anything like that?

Well, the guy, he got a local cop really invested in the case, right, who wasn't aware of it. He was too young when it happened, even though he was local. And he ended up being a big part of sticking with the case and working with the family and friends of Cathy. I'm just really hoping that that public wanker guy really, he mattered. Yeah, he got him. He mattered. Things other than his pubic hair.

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So head to squarespace.com slash do go on for a free trial and to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Some things just take too long. A meeting that could have been an email, someone explaining crypto or switching mobile providers. So, in 2010, a movie is released titled All Good Things. It was directed by a guy called Andrew Jurecki and was based on Kathy's disappearance. Well, the names are changed enough to be like. Oh, like a feature, not a doco. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And the Durst character, who was named someone else, John Marks or something like that, was played by Ryan Gosling.

Really? Which is a real glow up for Bobby. Very flattering. Yeah. You'd be stoked with that, wouldn't you? And Kathy was played by Kirsten Dunst or the Kathy Roll. According to Jones, that year Durst saw the film or not, let me do it in present tense as Jones liked to do. That year Durst sees the film at a private screening and later tells the New York Times,

quote, Parts made me cry. Ah. Against the advice of his lawyer, he contacts the film's director, Jurekky, to offer a lengthy sit down interview. His lawyers and stuff are like, don't do this. Director probably doesn't even want this. What? Yeah. He's already made the film.

Yeah. He's like, the film. Yeah. He's like, no, you know, I guess he was flattered by Gosling playing him and stuff like that, even though the film heavily implied that his character was responsible for three murders. He was like, no, I'd like to do an interview with Jerecky. Jerecky is like, OK. And this interview becomes the basis for HBO show The Jinx. So if he didn't do that, that probably would have been he would have just lived this or maybe would have killed again.

I don't know. But he would have if he could stop from killing. Those three wouldn't have caught up have killed again. I don't know, but he would have. If he could stop from killing. Yeah, those three wouldn't have caught up with him again. He would have probably just, you know, lived a free man. But no, he wanted a bit of time in the sun, I guess. Wanted to tell the story his way. During the interviews with Derecky, he denied any culpability in the deaths of Cathy McCormack and Susan Berman. Obviously he couldn't say the same for Morris Black because he's like, I did kill him, but it was in self-defense.

Derecky later gets his hands on an envelope addressed to Berman from Durst. Like, cause he's now basically investigating it himself. Working. Working with, um, Cathy's family, uh, Cathy McCormack. She changed her name to Durst, but I don't know. You know what I'm talking about. Yes. Cathy McCormack, her family is, you know, they're all kind of communicating a bit. Um, and yeah, this letter that, uh, is Durst, handwritten from Durst to Berman, and it matches the handwriting of the cadaver letter.

Oh, Beverly Hills misspelled. Including the same misspelling of Beverly Hills. Oh, God. And how did he get this letter? He got it through, it's all shown in the docker. It was on Etsy, I think. Yeah. I think he outbid.

I thought mysterious for a second. You really got me. I was like, have you seen the docker? Fuck. Sorry. That's great. That's really good. I'd love to know how Dave saw that made sense.

Yeah. Well, that's... It took a second. Oh, God. It was a comedy show. It was crafted. Yeah. It was a comedy show.

It was a comedy show. It was a comedy show. It was a comedy show. It'd love to know how Dave saw that made sense. Yeah. Well, that's, it took a second. Oh, it was a comedy show. It was crafted. Yeah, 500 reps in, sometimes we forget too. Yeah, God. Dear listeners, would you like, this isn't funny. I feel like it was, might have been like Susan Berman's son or something like, I think that's right.

And I think from memory, you should watch the docco because there's all sorts of other stuff going on and it is gripping. Yeah. And they ended up making a second season because of what happened during the filming of the first season and the airing of the first season. But yeah, I think it was the son who had really taken a shining to Bobby. He, you know, he was giving him cash and that sort of stuff. I think, and he sort of believed him, but in the end, I think he handed over this letter and it was like, well, this is pretty big evidence. Yes, the handwriting, exact handwriting and misspellings.

Crazy. There are parts of the documentary, they said, there's a part where he just seems, he's really nervy and he sort of practices phrases, derst. Yeah. But I was like before they're about to sit down. Yeah, like, and they, you know, they're rolling a lot and he seems to- when the mic's hot often and he's sitting there with his lawyers like, hey, the mic's on and he's just sort of like running through phrasing of-

I didn't do it. I did not do it. Yeah, I mean- I didn't do it. I did not do it. Yeah. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. It's not that far off, to be honest. In 2012, Jurekky interviews Durst again and he confronts him with the envelope, sort of blindsides with him on camera. And Jones writes that Durst is unable to identify which handwriting is

not his. They show him the two and said which ones you're, if you didn't write them both, one of these you definitely wrote, we know you did, which one is it? And he's like, I'm not sure. He couldn't tell, which is like, okay, that's interesting. Then in the bathroom afterwards, Durst mutters to himself, and this is how they finish season one of The Jinx. He mutters to himself while his mic is still hot. He's having a piss, the toilet flushes. That's good. Good to know.

And he says, there it is. You're caught. What the hell did I do? Killed them all, of course. It's really unnerving, actually. It's really creepy. Um, and apparently, so which is like, I mean, watching it and it all goes like, holy shit. Yeah. Holy shit. It turns out that they've edited it a bit and made it sound more coherent than it was.

They edit in the flush? Because they were like. They edit out the flush actually. But in court, this ends up getting played in court and there's the flush. And it is, I'll read out what the transcript soon. But apparently, I didn't realise this until last night. Even though I was caught on mic, they had so much footage. They're not listening to him while he's pissing. Yeah.

They didn't know they had that for two years. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. Someone just listening back and going, holy crap. Yes. He just said he did it. Yeah. And just before they found that, the investigation for another reason was reopened into Susan

Berman's death. And according to Jones, when the fifth episode of The Jinx aired on HBO, introducing the crucial cadaver envelope, Durst again went on the run. And at the same time, a Los Angeles judge signs a warrant for Durst again went on the run. And at the same time, a Los Angeles judge signs a warrant for Durst's arrest for the murder of Susan Berman. So sort of closing in on him. Then on the 14th of March 2015, the day before the Jinx finale, the FBI arrest Durst in New Orleans where he is thought to be planning an escape to Cuba. At the time of his arrest, Durst is in possession of a gun, $40,000 and a latex mask.

The LAPD denies that the show had anything to do with the timing of Durst's arrest. But it feels like a funny coincidence. Right. It does sound like it had something to do with the timing of him going on the run. Yeah. No, we only we only did it then because he was about to flee. Not and maybe he was about to flee because the final episode was about to end. But I don't think you can draw any conclusions. I mean, we don't even have HBO down at the station. Yeah. We've only got basic cable, so.

I don't even own a TV. I've never seen TV. So he's he's busted, he's arrested, and he goes on trial for the murder of Susan Berman, a woman who saw him as her brother. Supposedly though, were best friends, but you'd love him to go, all right, here's the story, here's what happened, but he didn't,

he pleaded not guilty. I mean, it's worked for him before, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. During the case, it is revealed that the recorded confession that was played on the Jinx, there it is. You caught. What the hell did I do? Killed them all, of course, was actually edited by the documentary makers. That's a bit dodgy, to be honest. Yeah. I find it really annoying. Because you're like, documentaries are, they do manipulate things sometimes and they did it in other ways and you go, oh, how much manipulation did you do?

So you say, there it is, but I didn't do it. Yeah. It's not, well- I did not do it. Didn't kill those people, of course. Yeah, yeah, just got all those things. It wasn't like he like it was that manipulated. It was just tightened up in a way that made it much more succinct.

Right, okay. Bagley writes, the filmmakers defend their edits as being entirely representative of what Mr. Durst said, but other documentarians like a guy called Mark J. Harris, an Academy Award winning filmmaker and professor at the University of South Carolina, who actually taught one of the other makers of the jinx, a guy called Mark Smerling. He questioned it saying, the editing is problematic. They put those lines together in a way that's very damning, but it is definitely more ambiguous in the transcript. So here is, maybe I'll also say deputy district attorney, you know, one putting the case forward for the prosecution in court,

a guy called John Lewin stressed to jurors though that while the audio was edited before it appeared in the dramatic finale of the jinx, the original version was no less damaging. So this is the transcript as I believe it to be. And a few bits, there are bits that say, unintelligible say unintelligible you know he's pissing just mumbling to himself just keep pissing just keep pissing okay yeah there you go not everybody has to say that to themselves okay almost done you're doing so well feel the flow so proud of you no one's no one's watching it's okay waterfalls waterfalls relax rain Waterfalls. Relax. Rain. A leaky cat. Okay, so sorry.

What is it? Okay, I hear it. Unintelligible. Then, I don't know what you're expected to get. I don't know what's in the house. Oh, I want this. Killed them all, of course. Unintelligible.

I want to do something new. There's nothing new about that. Inaudible, but possibly disaster. He was right. I was wrong. The burping. I'm having difficulty with the question. What the hell did I do? So, it's- What?

Very different. That is so different. So different. That is the ravings of a madman. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm trying to piece together all the bits that they use. The three bits they use were, killed them all, of course.

So there's a couple of lines, and killed them all, of course. Then a few more lines. Then what the hell did I do? So he said, what the hell did I do? And the way they presented it was he asked that question and then said, killed them all, of course. But it was- Oh, come on. They were totally separate thoughts.

And what about the bit that, um, your court? Was that said at all? Uh, it was all said, but it was just like this. It was sort of spread out and sporadic. Oh, man. Because that, it really sounds like- It's entirely different. It is. Yes.

And they're sounds like- It's entirely different. That's so different. It is. Yes. And they're being like- Just so disappointing because like, yeah, I remember seeing that go around and being like, whoa, it's chilling. Interesting. Yeah. So it's like, I'm like, are they- So- It's not like they cleaned it up for, all right, we just scrubbed the bits, but you couldn't

understand what he's saying because- Yes. Who knows? We don't want to say what he said because we don't know what he said. And then we just cut out the middle crappy bits. They actually shifted the order. Yeah. That's the question that he didn't ask. Yeah, that's right. They changed the fully changed the implication of of that.

Like it was just like kill them all, of course. I mean, it doesn't sound great, but it's not at all like how they presented it. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Right. Bit of a bummer, but. Yeah. I mean, I don't think he's any less guilty at this stage. No, that's right. Just to think that they, it sounded like they've absolutely got him.

Yeah. But I don't know how this ends. It does sound like he could, from this, get away with it, because that doesn't sound like to someone ranting to themselves, muttering to themselves. Yes. They also, yeah, like there are articles saying in some ways, you know, the makers of this documentary are also kind of on trial because it's like, should you be able to do that? And a lot of people are like, no, I don't think you should be able to.

I don't think so. From not having seen it, but hearing the two transcripts right there, I'm like, wow, that's completely- Yeah, it's not quite the same, but like Homer Simpson, you know. That's we can. If I, if there was, if he was doing that on camera, you wouldn't be able to edit it like that. It's only because it's audio that they were able to. Yeah. They must have, they must have known that it was a bit dodgy.

But it made for a very impactful season finale. Exactly. Yeah, totally. I mean, they probably wouldn't have got the attention if we didn't do that. During the trial, Durst's lawyers finally conceded that he did in fact write and send the cadaver letter to police. They weren't sure how to deal with that. They were hoping an answer will come to us. Yeah. And it never did. But they did say that didn't mean he killed her saying quote, what the note demonstrates is that the person who mailed it was aware that there was a body at the house.

Not that the individual murdered Susan Berman, which is true, but it's like why deny it for so long if you had written the letter. But it's the same thing with Morris Black, isn't it? Why cut up the body and throw it into the harbour if you did it in self-defense? Yeah. And it worked. It worked last time. Yeah, that's right. And what, like using the word cadaver about your best friend? Really weird. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, like if you walked into a house and found your best friend shot dead. You'd call the cops. Call the cops and be like, oh my God. Yeah. You'd call an ambulance probably right off the bat. Both things say. She's been shot in the head. I need help. Finally, on the 17th of September, 2021, Durst is convicted of the murder of Susan Berman.

2021, wow. And is sentenced, not on that day, but later sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. The following month, New York police charged him with the murder of his wife, Kathy. So this is, you know, 40 years later. Huge for the family, though. Huge, yes. And there is footage, if you watch season two of The Jinx, there's footage of the family watching the confession and different moments of the first season of The Jinx.

And you just like, you see the sort of relief and not relief, but I mean, it would be quite a strange feeling. But it's like, there is a bit of relief. Yeah. God that, um, this is catching up with him in some way. Cause he just like how they're like, we want justice for Cathy. And he keeps sort of getting away with it. But I mean, I'm afraid it sort of still ends pretty heartbreakingly. Oh, I should say I've written this pretty good line here. But just

as the movie about his life, All Good Things came to an end on the 10th of January, 2022. So did his life. Even though that wasn't a good thing. He went into cardiac arrest at a California hospital and died soon after. Oh. But as Danny, this is like, I'm afraid it's a bit of a bummer of an ending, because I'd love to have just finished it there. He died. He was, justice was coming for him and he died, which I think you could take it like that. He died knowing he was charged for him and he died, which I think you could take it like that. He died knowing he was

charged for two murders he until that point had got away with. One of them he was found guilty of. When he died, he was in the process of appealing the Susan Berman conviction. But as Danny Anguano writes The Guardian, and yeah, I'm afraid this is an unsatisfying end to the story, he died on the 10th of January, I mean, this part is pretty satisfying, in a California hospital while serving a life sentence for shooting his best friend. Interestingly, Angueno suggested it, like the motives were clear, saying, he shot her in the back of the head at her Los Angeles home in 2000 as she was preparing to tell police what she knew about McCormack's death. Just weeks after he was sentenced for Berman's killing, a New York ground jury indicted him on second degree

murder charge in McCormack's case. But the 78 year old's death upended both cases, bringing the McCormack charges to a halt and, thanks to a quirk in the Californian law, seeing the Berman murder conviction rendered void because the case was under appeal when he died. Really? Yeah. So he was found guilty, but technically that was voided when he died because it was under appeal. Ah. Which is an- I mean, but really, you know, he's dead. So-

They can't sue for defamation, so he did it. We know he did it. Yeah. And the fa- like, the family's still going through- I think they're suing for wrongful death of his widow, his second wife, and I don't know where that's at, but yeah, I just hope that they got some closure from- Because obviously it was way rougher when it was just- there were no charges brought before the jinx was shown even

all put together. It probably was looking like there would have been, you know, it would have just been remembered as a suspect. Right. And if he hadn't arrogantly done the interviews. Yeah. Which he volunteered to do. Don't even ask, requested him to do it. Wow. That's- And they never found Cathy's body, obviously. No. And they don't know what happened to her.

And I don't think they ever found Morris Black's head either, as far as I know. Gosh, that's so awful. That's awful. So as far as I know. Gosh, that's so awful. That's awful. Yeah. What a monster. Yeah. So, interesting. So gripping is, and we all know true crime is very popular for these reasons, makes you

feel all sorts of things. Yeah. That's right. Because it is real people. And it is, but yeah, it's an interesting one in this case because the true crime media actually led to developments and maybe him getting closer to being brought to justice than he would have otherwise. But yeah, but he lived like a large percentage of his life as a free man and getting away with it.

Yeah. And what really was only when he started looking for the bit of the limelight that you know, he spent a lot of the rest of his life in jail from that point on. Yeah. Even though he was dodging when he should have been found guilty of the Morris Black thing and others, he ended up in jail for a bunch of time anyway. Yep. Yes, okay. Yeah. Yes. OK. Yeah. Strange old story. I felt like that was the one.

I couldn't remember if it was the Jinx or the documentary The Staircase, where the guy- I remember that the bit where he admits it on like a microphone. But I also did not know that they had manipulated it. So, I wasn't sure the whole time it was going to be that one or the other one. Yeah. Why are they called the Jinx? I don't know that for sure, but I- I just Googled it.

Well, I was Googling him before. Yeah. I could just let you answer the question. Well, my guess was that it's just like, wherever he goes, misery sort of follows, but it's not- that was my interpretation of it, but obviously he's not a jinx. He's actively bringing misery. Yeah, I just wasn't sure if like- But is it something else? Actually, I wasn't sure if I was asking the dumbest question ever and I'd miss the bit. You remember?

That was his nickname the whole time. It was, it was, uh, along those lines, I can't find it now. It was one of those things that like people also searched for, but I think it was that like he didn't want to have kids cause he hadn't had a good childhood and yeah, thought of himself as a bit of a jinx. Right. And cause he was like, Oh, cause people around me keep dying. Cause you kill them, you fuck. Yeah.

What are the chances? I'm such a jinx. That's, oh man. I'm just bad luck, I guess. It's like, no, you just, you're a murderer. Yeah. But that's bad luck. That's, but they're two different things.

Bad luck and murder. That was fascinating, Matt. And yeah, like you say, there's a lot of feelings around true crime and that kind of stuff, but it is so gripping and interesting, that story. Yep. Yes. Appreciate people suggesting it and the patrons who voted for it was so close. I think I put like seven or eight options up and it was split all over the place.

It got as a topic, got about 20% of the vote winning only by a couple of votes. Wow. With about 800 voters. Huge. Wow, yeah. My most recent report was similar ratio. It was really refreshing the thing. I'm like, I gotta get started on this.

Yeah. I gotta get going. Somebody please, one of these topics really needs to pull out in front. Yeah. Well, that brings us to everyone's favourite section of the show where we thank some of our fantastic supporters. If you want to be one of these supporters, you can sign up on any level. And there are many different levels at patreon.com slash Jiggle On Pod, depending on budget and

what things you want and stuff like that. Yeah. Stuff like that, including bonus episodes. We're up to four a month. It's crazy over there. Pretty much every Sunday. Yeah. Apart from, you know, those some of those months that just drag on and on. And then like.

February though, every Sunday. February, it keeps it tight. Yeah. But yes, we do movie club and bonus reports and games and our D&D campaign. A lot of fun. You can also get tickets ahead of time to you get the first pick of tickets to live shows we do. And discount codes.

Discount codes. And you're the first to hear about streams we're doing or shows or whatever we're up to. Yeah, I can't think of anything else. No, I think that's a perfect amount of things. Okay. Did you mention the Facebook group? No. Well, that's another thing. Okay. Facebook group. It's a friendly this corner of the internet. Yeah. Get, get involved in the Facebook groups. Mom, Sophie shooter.

They do swaps. Shooter, sorry. Yeah. Organize also. It's a cap swap song at the moment. Yeah. And yeah, you know, you sign up and then you buy someone a cap. They buy you a cap. It's cute. I know it sounds like a cult, but it's not a cult. It's not a cult. And if it is, it's like a pretty nice one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

The cordial is just cordial. Yeah. You know, the cool lead. Yeah. Anyway, you get the idea. You get the idea. There's bonus this time. There's lots of stuff there. Yes. But yeah, one of the things, if you sign up on the Sydney Schomburg level or above,

you get to be involved in this section of the show, which is called Fact Quote or Question, which actually has a jingle go somewhere like this. Fact quote or question! Oh. And in this section of the show, you get to give us a fact quote or question or a brag or suggestion or really whatever you like and I'll read them out on the show. We've got two this week and boy howdy, are they crackers? I'll be honest with you, I haven't read them and never do.

But odds are. Yeah, if history is to repeat itself as it always does, they're going to be crackers. Yeah, they just have always been that way. Okay. Okay. So the first one comes from Bob McBob McBobbity Bobbington, aka Capitaine of getting annoyed. You're the only other person I know who pronounces Capitaine like that. All El Clapetano.

El Clapetano. That's right. And when I say pronounces it, because he's obviously written it, he spelt it phonetically like Capitan. Anyway, Bob's Capitan of getting annoyed. And he's got a tip. Have we ever had a tip before? I like this. I'm not sure. I like that as an idea.

But thank you for the money. A bit of fun. Bit of fun. Because obviously it's more like advice tip, but I'm just being cheeky. Well, like, I mean, this might have been before your time, but there was a classic pizza hut campaign in the nineties and Dougie was the, and we've had a Dougie today. Dougie was the pizza boy. When we were talking about Dougie on this episode, I thought about Dougie.

Dougie the When we were talking about Dougie on this episode, I thought about Dougie. Dougie the pizza boy. Because he'd delivered a pizza, maybe even to his own house. And the dad takes it and Dougie goes, how's about a tip? And the dad goes, work hard and be good to your mother. Bit of fun. He misunderstood tip. Or did he? Or did he? Exactly. Classic Dad. My second favourite Pizza Hut ad, number one, of course, being the Pizza Hut dog, the Pizza Mut.

And it would deliver from the car to the house. I don't recall that one. Little dog. I think a slice mut have been missing. So someone else had to drive the car. But we're paying two employees. And then when you get your pizza, a dog has eaten this. So it's pretty gross. Yeah, that's not a great campaign.

But I remember the pizza mart. I mean, you dog people would probably love it. You're like, oh, I love it. I love when I kiss my dog on the mouth. I like it when they're eating my food. Slobbering strangers dogs are. Yeah. Oh, I love to share a sandwich with my dog. I was being hyperbolic.

We go bite for bite. But this is a stranger dog. This is the pizza mutt. Oh, yuck. I'm watching the pizza mutt on YouTube right now. Oh, Dave, can you go back into the room with us, please? Come on, mate. Come back to us, Dave. Three loads of cheese.

What's the tip? I also love dogs. The tip is... He hates dogs. I love dogs. Okay, what's the tip. The tip is. Yeah, it's dogs. I love dogs. Okay, what's the tip? The tip is, I just heard the Abraham Lincoln episode, just felt changing bedsheets required a minimum of two people.

Well, I don't like doing it alone simply because I'm lazy. I was given this tip for the duvet cover part you may find useful. What do they say duvet? That's English, isn't it? Yeah. It's very fancy sounding. Oh, the duvet. The duvet. Yeah, I'm thinking like frilly stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Duvet. Duvet, la-dee-dah. Oh, duvet. What's it called, duvet? Duvet on. That could be our bedding spin-off. No, it's just a pod we do from bed. Oh my God. We all get in one big bed.

Yeah. But not in a weird way, just in a snuggly way. Yeah. In not a weird way way, just in a snuggly way. Yeah. In not a weird way. We've all got pants on. Oh, all right, I guess. We've all got either pants or tops on. Okay.

Dave's Winnie the Pooh. Yeah. Just saying it. Anyway, Bob goes on. If not already inside out, hold the cover by the corners first from the open end and turn inside out still holding the corners Pick up the duvet with the corner in each hand. This is I think did I give you this tip?

This is how I do it Bob. You keep going on this. You never made a bed in your life. I make I'd make every bed I ever see I see about it, I make it. I have to close my bedroom door when Matt comes out. Stop, get out of there. Get out of there. It was already made. Visiting orphanages is a nightmare. Trying to think of a place with lots of beds.

Hostels? Hostels, yeah. Why did you have to go straight to the orphanage? Hospitals? We watched Annie recently for a movie called- There's so many places with lots of beds. Hospital would have been better. Hospital. Hotels.

Hotels. Forty Winx. Exactly. Bedcham. Well, they're not normally unmade beds, Dave. The mattresses. But you don't care if it's unmade or made, because they might have done it wrong.

You have to redo it. Oh, yeah, I'll redo it. Yeah. Sorry. Redo they on. Redo. No, I need to hear this tip. This is changing my life.

OK. Well, it's not changing mine because I know it already. Well, I don't know. It's weird that he hasn't credited me on it. All right, you're a big man. We get it. I change it for bed I see. Now carefully keeping the corners of the duvet and cover together,

move them together to hold with one hand and push the cover down the duvet to turn the right side out. The last bit hold the two corners in two hands again and shake it to work the cover over the rest. Give it a flick. Then just do a little finagling to get the open end corners correct. Possibly shake again, then do up the opening. I've probably made it sound more complex slash stupid than it is, but it's made life that little bit easier for me. I think it sounds beautiful.

Sounds very nice. Also be careful with the rest as I know someone who broke their finger changing the mattress over. It's a dangerous world in here as well as out there. Oh God, that would be such a bad day. So embarrassing. Turning up to the ED like, don't, you know, I'm so embarrassed. The worst thing is a mat did it, You have to still be changing the hospital beds.

Broken finger. It's a nightmare. Bob signs off saying pip, pip and tootleoo. Thank you so much. That's a great tip, Bob. Thank you, Bob. I probably won't follow that advice. No, well you don't need to. You just kept me here, don't you? Yeah. That's why you come over on a weekly basis.

That's right. Every Sunday and I just leave the fresh sheets sitting on the bed with the door slightly ajar. I can't, I fall for it every week. I lose Matt for about 10 minutes. Oh my God, Jess is having me over, how nice. Sunday brunch. She said there's certainly nothing in it for her.

Ha ha ha ha ha. Thank you, Bob. Next one comes from Nick Baderosa, aka the American Bandit Healer, with a question writing, Hey-er. How's that spelled? I gotta tell you, when I started the word,

I thought it was gonna be hey. And then I realized it was here, and I think I covered it quite nicely. Got away with it. Hey-er. Hey-er in America. Oh, maybe I should do it in American accent. Hair in America. We are going crazy for the Australian phenomenon known as Bluey.

Not sure if you are in on the craze, but I wanted to ask which character you most identify with. Whoa. Also, if you have watched, what is your favorite character episode? Being a dad of two myself, I'm definitely a bandit. Okay, I can hear Dave typing, so he's currently Googling characters. Hey, hey, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. I love Bluey. I've seen them all. He is the best dad in TV history, and I've learned a lot from him. My favorite episode is Unicourse, which makes me crack up every time.

I have seen... I've seen a bit of Blowy. Yeah. I couldn't tell you any episodes, but I've seen it. And I know Bandit is a voice by Custard frontman, David McCormack. So I'm going to say Bandit. Great. Because I love Custard.

Band and dessert. Good choice. Um. Favorite episode, episode one. I think I set a lot of it up. Yeah, yeah. Good one. Often I say give a new show three episodes to let it settle in. Didn't need to with Bluey. Perfect at number one.

No, I've seen bits and pieces of Bluey. I haven't watched a lot of it, but you know, I've got a niece who loves it. I've seen Christmas specials. Yes. I identify with Bingo, who's a little sister. Oh, yeah. Bingo's really cute and I like Bingo and she's funny. Yeah, yeah. So there's that. Yeah, they're all really funny though, right? Like it is a funny show, but it's also like a nice show, but it's not corny, but it's

sentimental, but not to the point of it being yuck. But would you agree that Bingo's really cute? Uh, yeah. And would you agree that I'm really cute? Yeah. So. So facto., I say more. Dave, after your frantic Googling over there, have you got a genuine authentic answer? I love Calypso.

Oh, that's a great name. It was by Megan Washington. Yep. So to be fair- Megan Washington. Yeah. Meg does have some voices. To be fair- Hang on Dave. Sorry, Dave. Jess just dropped in.

Are you friends with Megan Washington? No, I think she just prefers to go by Meg. Fair enough. A friend would know that. A friend would know. Are you a bit of, you kind of is? I've never met Megan Washington, but I would love to. Okay. I think she has a phenomenal voice. So cool. Very talented musician. Her debut album blew my frickin mind. Like Aversion with Santaria by Sublime. That's a good choice. One of my all time faves. Basically, I'm sure that my world is about to become bluey-centric.

Oh, yeah. And my- I've got a 15 month old, so it's not quite there yet. It's this generation's Wiggles, probably. So I just have never watched it, because I assume that one day I'll watch all of it. You'll see all of it, and they're short episodes, so you'll see all of it multiple times. Yeah, but I hear it's one of the shows that kids and parents alike all enjoy, so I'm looking forward to it. My best friend's kid is about to turn three, and she likes to request a little bit of Bluey. Is what she says. What is that, like half an episode? A little bit of Bluey. It's obviously because her parents have said you can watch a little bit of Bluey. Is what she says. What is that like half nips?

A little bit of Bluey. It's obviously because her parents have said you can watch a little bit of Bluey. And then, so now she goes, how about a little bit of Bluey? It sounds like she's ordering, she's asking for cracked pepper at a restaurant. A little bit. It's very funny. And she turns three this weekend and I have bought her multiple pairs of like items of clothing that have Bluey on them. Very good. She's gonna lose her freaking mind. Christmas swim I'm

looking up Christmas swim is an episode that I reckon was great and Veranda Santa just fun to say. Yeah. Veranda Santa. So if you haven't you know done yourself a favor maybe check out a little bit of Bluey. A little bit of Bluey. And I liked how apparently Disney, when they were getting the rights to it, they were pushing for it to be re-voiced and the creator said, no, no deal. It's either take it as is with our original cast or no deal. And good because we get so much American media and stuff like that.

Why can't- Nice to give a little something back. Give a little something back and give a bloody great show back. Although we have been revoiced in the US. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Obviously, so you are not hearing- if you're hearing this in the US, this is not my actual voice you're listening to. Yeah, I'm played by Matt Berry. Fah-ah!

I just realised you said US. That would be easy to get a British comedian. I'm voiced by Ray Starby. Very confusing. I'm voiced by Claudia Carvin. That's a great choice. Great choice. Yes. Better enunciated than you, I'm guessing. Agreed.

Yeah, what was the question was? Yeah. Do we answer? Yeah, favourite bluey character and favourite bluey episode. So I'll come back to you in the next couple of years. Nick, follow up. Nick is a prolific fat quota question writer. Literally, he's got four more questions.

Submissions. Submissions. That's great. And. Lined up. And there are six more submissions in the hat. Okay. That's a strong hit, right?

There's a bunch of people on that level we never hear from. They have the right to write in and they just, they wave that right. Yep. Well, yeah. I don't know if they wave it. Maybe they just don't want it. That's waiving it. All right.

Um, I couldn't think of it. They're not waiving it. They're just, they're just opting out. Maybe they're drowning. I could not think, I'm like, I'm gonna counterpoint this. Could not think of one, you know? Why do you have to fight Dave so much? Well, sometimes it's just for comedy.

I just wish you two could get along. Well, you got a bit of comedy, you just sound like a fool. The joke was on you. You trying to make a joke? And Fransetta was on you. He said that and then like took a smug little sip of his drink. Out of a little bamboo straw. I just stood up for you.

Why do I bother? Thank you, I loved it. But Nick, if you haven't, Look Up Custard. A partment. classic pop rock song. What a riff. Dave, favourite Custard song? Ah, Apartment. Fantastic.

I also like the new Matthews, great one. Oh yeah, great. What about Funky again? Oh yeah, more recent stuff. Yeah. Very good. But girls like that don't go for guys like us. Yeah.

In brackets. I wanna see the facts. This time, it's serious. They say there's... All right, I will probably... Move on. Move on. But I wanna just start singing Custard.

Just, I wanna put that on the record. Yeah. Thank you. They say there's two... Oh, my God. It's gonna be hard to not do that. And we're back. He sang every single custom song and he got out the system. So thank you very much to Nick and Bob for their facts, quotes and questions. If you are on that level, please get them in.

DM me on Patreon if you need the link. The next thing we'd like to do is shout out to a few other fantastic supporters. Normally Jess comes up with a game based on the topic. Hmm. Okay, how about, because obviously this is a pretty grim topic, but, because didn't he have a couple of aliases that were like people he went to school with? He did, he did at least two where they figured out later, people he had no contact with, it just names. He's like-

Is it because you just would remember it? Yeah. There's just names in your head you can remember forever. So let's just dox people we went to school with. Okay. And straight up, like don't pre-plan anybody, just see what happens. Are we doxing? I don't know if we're doxing, are we?

No, I'm just having a bit of fun. But we, if you, no, I'm just saying, do you want us to fully dox? Fully dox, name, address, and if you do know, if they've been married and changed their name, give us both. Yeah, okay, great. And child's name. And any children they've got. Any children they have.

Full name. And primary school the children go to. Right. Nothing to. Right. Nothing weird. Nothing weird. Let's just fully dock some people we haven't seen for 20 plus years. Love it. Or in Matt's case, 400 years. So that's the nickname we're giving to the people.

It's just like the alias. Not their nickname. Sorry. Did you listen to this episode today? Which episode? Did you think Robert Durst was giving himself nicknames? Such cool nicknames. This episode had some of the best names we've ever had. It really did. Oh, so now we have to try and top it with just like dull people we went to school with.

Okay. So how are we going to do this? I guess we just do it one for one? Yeah. All right. I read out, place a name. Jess does the pseudonym. Jess reads it out. Dave does the pseudonym like that. What do you think? I do the pseudonym. Yeah, you do. Alias.

Did we listen to this episode? That sounds so good. All right. Okay. Oh my God. This is going to be one of the greatest place names I've ever heard. And we- From Rancho Cucamonga in California in the United States.

Thanks to Steven Parrish. A new alias, Trent Nut. Is that real? Trent Nut. Yes. We're not going to be able to top that. Dave, you are laughing at a real person's name. We can't top Nut.

Trent Nut. His mom's name was Pauline. Mail addressed to her said, Peanut. Oh my God. Fuck, that's awesome. We can't top Nut. Trent Nut. His mum's name was Pauline. Male addressed to her said Peanut. Oh my god. Fuck, that's awesome. We can't beat that. I'm not laughing, I'm living. I mean, that gives me life.

Trent, if you're listening. That's- How are you, bud? I'm getting strength from Trent Nut. How's things? I had a crush on you in grade four. Oh wow, and? Short lived. Reciprocated?

Crush the nuts. Well, that's why I'm asking. Crush nuts. That's why I'm asking Trent Nut. Let me That's why I'm asking, Trent Nuts. Let me know 20 years ago. 25 years ago, you had a shot. All right, Jess is going to read out the name now. Oh, yes.

Sorry, I went straight to Facebook to look up Trent Nuts, who I hadn't thought about in a long time. Next up, I would like to thank from Ringwood, Victoria, Neva is not just a planet in the Vulcan system. Oh, that's an interesting name. But I think your new name, your alias is Chloe Kalanj. Oh, Chloe Kalanj. Incredible. Holy shit. I don't...

I haven't thought about Chloe. Like you said, emptied my mind. Empty brain. See what comes. Great name for Chloe. That's a great name. Dave, do you want to thank someone? I would like to thank, from a location unknown to us, deeper than the fortress of the moles, but we can only presume.

And this is DeShingus. Yes, that was my little throat going burp. Because I had that smug sip of juice before. I'm not sure that that would have picked up on. I know, but I couldn't not. But we heard it. I reckon I heard it through the cans. Yeah.

I'm hoping you got picked up. It's Dashingus. Dashingus. Dashingus, now known as Richard Wexler. Oh, really? God, that's a great name. Dick Wexler. Oh, my God. I don't think we ever got on that as kids.

It's a bit funny. Dick Wexler. Dick Wexler. I'm Dickplexed. Dick Wexed. No, yeah. Beautiful. Richard Wexler. Dick Wexler. I'm Dick Plexed. Dick Wexed. No, yeah. Beautiful. Richard Wexler. Whatever I do. He was a great drawer. I haven't seen him since. 400 years. He went to a different high school, but he, yeah, he was a great drawer. Okay. And real tall. Hmm. Hmm. I wonder if he still

is. Both of those things. I don't know. No way to know. I'd love to thank, thank you so much, TheShingus. I'd also love to thank from Preston here in Melbourne, Victoria, Tia Evans. Holy shit, that's a great name. Okay, Tia Evans. Shayna Leia. Shayna Leia. What school?

This is... No, don't say what school. Then you're getting an ox in territory. Shayna Leia. Shayna Leia. What school this is? No, don't say what school. Then you're getting an ox in territory. Shaina Leia, you've got Nutt and Leia? Are they all sex names? Leia? I hardly know her.

It was a primary school, these are children. It was L-E-Y-E-R, I think. No, I could be wrong. Anyway, it just popped into my head. I'm clearing my mind and just picturing. Clear it out. Picturing school. Yeah.

So thanks, Shayna. Hope you well. Next up from Colorado Springs in Colorado, Carl Habager. Carl Habager. OK. Darren Keyes. Oh, Darren Keyes. That's a name you could set your clock to. K-E-Y-S.

I don't want to dox completely, but yes. Bloody hell. That's a good one. That's a good name. Good on you, Darren. Haven't thought about you in a while. Hope you're going well. Um, all right.

Dave, who are you thanking? I would like to thank from... Where am I? Where are we up to? Oh, Beethoven in New South Wales. Thank you to X Dillon. And every letter is capitalized except the Y. Oh, X Dillon.

X Dillon, now known as Yinja Yap. Oh, that's a good one. That's a fantastic name. It's such a great name. I think he, I think he, I think... Yeah, he was maybe most famous at our school for, if I'm remembering, all right, maybe he did, no, I can't. I mean, he's so handy to have in my thing that I do to get to sleep sometimes, going through the alphabet, going for first and second names with the same letter.

For Y, Yin-Ju Yap is a slam dunk. But it's also, I've always just thought one of the great names yinjiyap. I think that's a great name. One that burns in your brain forever for a reason. Yeah. And if I can, I'd love to thank, oh, from address unknown. I can only assume from deep within the fortress of the moles. Thank you so much to Lisa Walker.

Now known as Sabine Slattery. Sabine Slattery. Wow, that's a great name. This is- The family that moved from Ireland to Australia. No wonder- And then I think she went on to the US. We are surrounded by great names.

It sounds like it's been that way our whole lives. Yeah, these are some great ones. I think, brother, you are killing it. I'm going to try and dig deep for this because- Okay. It's just saying a lot about the diversity of Dave's school, you know what I mean? Very boring names. some great ones. I think both of you are killing it. I'm going to try and dig deep for this because- Okay. It's just saying a lot about the diversity of Dave's school, you know what I mean? Very boring names.

Diversity of names. Yeah, pretty dull so far, but okay, here we go. All right. Chloe Calanches, that's a good- That's brilliant. I've never come across that surname ever. That's a great name. Ever since.

That was nothing against those people, it's just purely against you. So, next up and ultimately from Bromley in Great Britain, Scott Willis. Scott Willis aka Carla Denali. Oh, I take everything back. I take everything back. That's a beauty. That was so bouncy. I loved it.

Yeah, that was nice. Carly Denali. Carly Denali. That's good stuff. Is that right? Carly Denali. Carly Denali. No, it's Carly Denali.

Carly Denali. That's so good. Carly Denali Carly Denali? No, it's Carly Denali. Carly Denali. That's so good. Carly Denali. Love that. No, it's the other way around. Oh my god. It's Carly Denali.

Can I? Oh, that's the best of the three options. Yes, sorry, sorry. Yes. Carly Denali is sick. Holy shit. Congratulations to all concerned. All right, I'm fully banking my mind now.

Okay, here we go. Final name from Victoria, British Columbia and Canada. Hello, thank you to Connor Gleason. Okay, Kathangeli Ashok Kumar. What in the actual fuck? Kathangeli, I love that. No, short of, short of Nagui. She was real cool. That's beautiful.

She got to our school, like I think in grade two or three. I'm like, someone about her, so cool. One of those effortlessly cool people. Yeah. 100%. Hit me again with that full name. Yeah. Ifangely Ashok Kumar.

Oh. God, that's good. That is music. So good. So good. I hope none of those people minded us using their names. Hopefully, no, I didn't make you uncomfortable in any way. Well, I tell you what, I bet you none of them are listening to this. What are the chances? Based on their names.

Yeah. They're all doing some pretty important stuff. I imagine they're all maybe someone will go. And the NASA break room, they'll be like, I cannot believe it, but the whole team was referenced on this stupid podcast I was listening to to get to sleep. Yeah, this stupid sleep podcast. I listened to dumb Australians. It soothes me.

Wow. Thank you everybody. Thank you so much everybody. And yeah, that just leaves us with the triptych club. The last thing we need to do is welcome. I think we got one inductee this week. Dave's so good at explaining what the Triptych Club's all about. Yes, Matt. This is our clubhouse, our hall of fame. It's a bit of a theatre of the mind sort of stuff going on here where we welcome you into our space,

our hangout zone, our restaurant, our club, our arcade, our dance floor, whatever you want it to be. It is that. These people that are being welcomed in this week, they've been supporting the show on the shout out level or above for three consecutive years. They've already had a shout out. They've already had a name or whatever given to them a couple of years back, but now they've stayed true, putting them up on the honor board and we welcome them in one by one, but first of all, Jess is in charge of catering.

I actually misunderstood, even though we've been doing this for quite some time. Yes. I forgot to like make a drink or a food special. I misunderstood. I've just actually put microphones in all the bathrooms. I misunderstood. Have you? I was just going to record everybody pissing and muttering to themselves.

Bob, this is not- But I could have sworn that's what you asked. I didn't know that I was supposed to be coming up with food or drinks or something. I thought- Oh my god, no. That is not Dave. Oh my god. But have you come across any confessions, just so you know?

Dave, I heard you before. Oh my god, please don't take me out of context. Begging as I'm on the toilet. God, please make it stop. Please. Please, this hurts. This hurts. I know I asked for flow before, but not like this.

Oh my god. I need some of this liquid to remain. Make it stop. I'm bleeding out here. For example. For example. For example, yeah. So yeah. I'll try and whip something up, but I'm under out here. For example. For example. For example, yeah. So, yeah, I could I'll try and whip something out, but I'm underprepared.

OK, no, I think that's a nice little addition you've made. OK. To... You're not mad at me? No. OK. No, no, that's good. That's good work from you.

And Dave, did you book a band? Yes, you're never gonna believe it. Obviously, I don't know what this topic was gonna be because- Sorry, you paused so I could go, what? And I didn't, I'm sorry. Uh, I didn't know that, yeah, Matt was gonna do a topic on the famous Jinx. Yeah. You're never gonna believe it because I just got an email this morning from the New York, I believe, new metal band, Jinxx, JYNX who are performing tonight.

They've just said yes. Bloody hell, that's great. They've got Jinx. That's massive. So looking forward to a bit of New York metal and that's NU York metal. Pretty good stuff. That is really good stuff actually. So we've got one Inductay.

Inductay. Inductay, more like it. I was going to let it go. I'm loving it. From was going to let it go. I'm loving it. From now on they're all inductays. And yeah, so the way this works is I'm on the dog at the clipboard. Just one name on the list this week.

It's a short guest list, but everyone who's already been inducted before, which I believe is something like 900 people, they're all in there. They're chanting the name. They're parting it up. We're welcoming you in with open arms because once you arrive, you're never allowed a lead book. Lead book. What would you want to? We've got everything you need, including mics in the toilets. Dave's on stage. He's ready to hype you up. And no one's listening. It won't be for years before anyone actually goes through all the... I'm actually in the toilet on one of Jess's

microphones. Yeah. So obviously people hear this in a couple of years, but still. Yeah. Oh God. I'm ready. So Dave Popp, he really hypes up the inductees by doing a bit of, you know, the biggest gift he can give is weak wordplay based on either their name or address. He does a fantastic job.

Oh my God. I'm looking at the one and I'm not going to be able to pronounce this. My guess is that is in Poland. Okay. That's a guess. It's a Polish name. All right. So Dave, you ready? Absolutely.

From Rzyszska in Poland. Please welcome in Sandra Anita. Look, I was just saying earlier that I, I need something. And I Anita Sandra Anita. That makes sense. That makes sense. You could have just stopped it. I, I need a Sandra. That's what you would normally do.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fine. Whatever. Obviously like the gins. Wait, sorry. Fine. Whatever. Obviously, like the Jinx. Wait, sorry, I forgot to set up. Jess is always supporting Dave. Woo! Yeah!

Like the Jinx, edit what I said to make it make more sense. Okay? Welcome in, Sandra. I need a something. I need a Sandra. Yeah. Make yourself at home. Please enjoy the work of the Jinx at the after party. They're going to be fantastic. Huge.

Will that bring us to the end of the episode? Is there anything we need to tell people before we go? That we love them so much that they too can suggest a topic and be one of those precious people that gets mentioned at the start of a report. That could be you. If you come across something that you think is interesting, tell us about it. There's a link in the show notes, it's on our website which is duegoonpod.com and you can find us on social media as well in case you've been listening for a while and you go

What do these freaks look like you can find out and it will be underwhelming Please follow us and like every post you see like every post. That's your comedy. I hit 10,000. We said that on pod Yeah, no we did because remember you deleted a hundred people Again truly psycho. I made it back. I'm just addicted to crossing 10,000. Any new people will be turned back at the border. Chasing that rush. Hey, we'll be back next week with another fantastic episode, but until then, also thank you so much for listening and goodbye.

Later. Bye. See you later. Love you, heroes. Call me. I did it. I did it. I did it. I killed them all.

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