Do Go On - 506 - Mr. Democracy Manifest and his Succulent Life

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

On 11 October 1991, a man was arrested at a Chinese Restaurant in Brisbane. The charge? Enjoying a meal? A Succulent Chinese Meal?? No… actually it was credit card fraud. Now I was assured that I could speak, so this week I will tell the story of the man, the myth, the legend himself and his wild life!CW: institutional abuse is briefly mentionedThis is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 06:50 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).For all our important links: https://linktr.ee/dogoonpod Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present. REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:Carnage by Mark DapinABC's Earshot: A Succulent Chinese Mealhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-11/succulent-chinese-meal-rant-jack-karlson/100798094https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-08/jack-karlson-succulent-chinese-meal-arrest-video-dies/104198912https://www.smh.com.au/national/this-is-democracy-manifest-mystery-star-of-viral-video-found-at-last-20200307-p547vr.htmlhttps://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/31/from-isnack20-to-tony-abbotts-onions-the-best-australian-memes-of-the-decadehttps://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainment/succulent-chinese-meal-guy-investigation/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodgies_and_widgieshttps://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sydney-morning-herald/5383931/?locale=en-AUhttps://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/theatre/the-prose-of-a-con-20120629-217dg.html Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serengy Amarna 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. And welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dave Warnacky and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins. Hello. Hey Dave.

Jeez, it's good to be here with you and you. I'm talking to Jess there for the listeners and also Dave. What about the listeners? Oh, them as well, yeah. Yes. So good to be with them. I love being inside of your ear holes. Poor, I mean, it was already, it was a bit crook, but it was about to be way.

I'm getting it. Just a picture. I'm in there tickling away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bum, bra-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-re-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-r. Does that sound you make when you tickle? Yeah.

Okay. I like it. Yeah. Yep, perfect. No notes. Oh, Jess. You should explain for new listeners how the show works. Oh, my God.

Firstly, um, hi. Welcome and you're welcome for that ear tickle. We just gave you sorry about that. First one's free. So how that works. Just a little taste. How this show works is one of the three of us, Dave, Jess and Matt. Hello.

We go away, we research a topic, we tell the others all about it. The topics are often suggested to us by our fantastic listeners. We research it, we bring it back to the other two, who listen very politely, who never interrupt. And sometimes they know it's quite a long report, and so they're going to kind of purposely hold back a little just so we can get it done. No, well, don't. I mean, I've told you this one of the longest ones I've ever written, but don't let that a affect your enjoyment. Oh, I've already switched off.

And the process. And we always get onto the topic with a question. Matt, do you have a question for us? That's true. I have a question and it goes to Dave. Dave. Okay. How are you going with your editing process for the, for your comedy?

This is, I'm just working in a plug here. This actually has nothing to the report. Oh, how am I going editing my stand-up special? Yes, yes. It's going great. I'm watching it back. I'm not cringing it myself at all. I'm loving it.

I'm loving watching 60 minutes on my report. I'm speaking into a microphone. And I think other people will like it as it's going to be released on the Humdinger channel at the end of this month. As is yours, I believe, coincidentally. That's right. Yeah, it's called Best Man. It's a show about, you know, just sort of taking the piss out of weddings.

Bit of fun. Bit of fun. Went to some weddings. And they were, I thought they were bit of fun. I got married in that period you're talking about. Yes. So I think if you watch it, you know, you can kind of Picture the source material.

Yeah. But yeah, no, so, yeah, the Humdinger channel, which is the new name of the stupid old channel. That's right. They've had a rebrand, and we are honored to be part of the first few shows going out on the YouTube channel there. Yes, a microphone did just hit me in the face and just laugh. But the microphone doesn't hit me in the face on my special because we edited those bits out. But yeah, so my show is called Even Hodder in Real Life. and it's just about having a really hot life.

Yeah, so if you haven't, if you haven't already, subscribe to the stupid old channel slash the Humdinger channel on YouTube. And yeah, we're going to have a little watch party. Yeah, we're going to have a premiere. It's a Saturday night, Saturday, July 26. And you can watch both our specials back to back there as they go out. And it'll be like you're in the room. Yeah.

Exciting. So exciting. All right, but here's my question to get us on the topic. I answered the question, though, so I feel like I should get a point for that. I think, yeah, Bob's listening. Bob keeps scores. Yep. That'll be up to him.

It's up to Bob. I think Bob is entirely unimpeded, uninfluenced. What's the word I'm actually trying to say? Unimpressed. Unimpressed. Neutral. Neutral. Unbiased.

So he'll make that decision, Dave. I'm pretty sure Bob, though, you won't give him a point with him. No, I don't think so. Fair enough, Bob. So here is the actual question. Can you finish? This famous Australian quote. No.

Okay, Jess, I'll let it throw it up to you. Probably not is the answer, is my answer. Okay. So it leaves you just have a little window alone. Now we're both back in. All right. Okay, back in. What is the charge?

Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal? Correct. That is correct. Today we're going to be telling the story of the succulent Chinese meal man. No way. It finally happened? Yes.

We're here? To be honest, I've put this up for the vote three times, and it's one every time. The first time was about three years ago. I can't, something happened and it wasn't able to be done. And then I'm like, oh, but more info was coming out. At the time, they thought it was a different guy that first time. So I was probably lucky that I waited. And then the next time, Jess was away.

And I then messaged all the patrons, and I said, I kind of feel like this one just should be there for, and I agreed, it was the, and I ended up instead doing hapsetchetchit. Which probably, yeah, because you did that with two American podcasters who would not have had, oh, maybe because that video is global. Yeah, it's hard to know, but yeah. It feels like it's particularly strong here. An Australian icon.

Yes. That's right. I don't really know. I've heard lots of different potential stories, so this is very excited. Well, that's it, yeah, because I think I remember that, you know, it was, we weren't sure who it was for a while, yeah. Or even if the video was real. Yeah, yeah.

I remember at one point reading a blog, someone's saying this is, it's not a, this was actors and stuff. Right. I'm like, I like, really. Wow, give them a, give them the gold luggy. Yes. Incredible performance. So this was suggested by Fee Leslie from running stream New South Wales.

Libby Mason from Winston Salem, uh, North Carolina. Kelly Clark from Malgam Ongup, uh, may lands on Wadjunk, Nunga, Daniel Vickers from Orlando, Florida, Greta Pickett from Sydney, Australia, Sheehan from Perth, but lives in London, Beck Taylor from Kingsville, Victoria, and finally, from LOL Radio and Colac, Jough. Love you, Jof. All right, so. Wow.

So, yeah, obviously, quite a few people suggested it in different times, and like some of those people also suggested a long time ago. before a lot, you know, he really came out at himself as himself. But I'll get to that later. Anyway, so let's go back to what made him famous. It was the 11th of October 1991 when a man was arrested at a Chinese restaurant in Brisbane. The charge, enjoying a meal, a succulent Chinese meal. No, it was actually credit card fraud.

They can't put that down as the judge. Luckily for us, the arrest was captured on film and the video was uploaded to the internet. In 2019, Nam and Zau wrote for The Guardian that it was perhaps the preeminent Australian meme of the past 10 years. High praise indeed, when you consider that his listicle on The Guardian also included Vegermite Ice Snack 2.0, the Just Waiting for a Mate guy. Johnny Depp's dogs, pistol and boo. And of course, Tony Abbott eating a roll.

raw onion. Prime Minister Tony Abbott, but if you don't, international listeners. He just bit it like an apple. Yeah, it was psycho. At a press conference. Yeah. He knew there were cameras there.

Yeah. He was proud to do it. It was, and it was not even necessarily his oddest moment on camera. No, it was one of them. Yeah. But that's the thing. It was one of his weird moments. It was that one where he winked at John Fain and another one where he just didn't

talk at all. And he said. Tony. Tony, you're not saying anything. And then he just says, nods a lot more and then says, I gave you the answer. He's made a great point, but he just looked like a weird, because the whole time he's just nodding in silence. I think he was thinking, like to me, he hadn't, that wasn't where it was always going. He's going, oh, fuck, this is weird now.

What do I say? I need it. How do I salvage it? Tony, I got it. You aren't saying anything. That's a great thing for journalists and say. Well, especially because it was a radio interview, right? So I'd be aware as a radio presented that after six seconds of silence, we're going to dead air.

I think so. And emergency tapes kicking in. So you'd have to be like, Tony, you're not saying anything. I picture that one being on TV, but maybe it wasn't. The wink one was definitely on radio because he thought there was no camera. What a moron. Because he was wink and there was something. Pretty crook.

Someone crook was it, yeah. And he gave a wink like old school, a real, you know. a locker room sort of wink. Yeah, gross. You know what I mean. I don't. I've never been in a locker room. You've never been in a room?

They won't let me in. Let me in. You're really missing out. Locked out. I want to see. What's happening in there? What are you doing in there? What's going on in there?

Tell me, show me. Tony. You're not saying anything. All right, let's get into it. So, in his book, Carnage, crime writer Mark Dappen does a great job describing the viral video writing. Democracy Manifest is a brief, but memorable news clip of an indignant bear of a man in a striped short-sleeved shirt

being manhandled into a Ford Falcon by three uniformed police officers and two detectives. They are outside the China Sea restaurant in Brisbane's Fortitude Valley. You're under arrest, said the detective. I wonder what? Demands the man as if he has never heard anything so ridiculous. The police officers grab him by the arm and push him from behind as he routes himself to the pavement and addresses an unseen audience. of TV news people.

Gentlemen, he proclaims magnificently, this is democracy manifest. He will not be cowered by the men trying to force him in through the car door. Have a look at that headlock here, he says to the TV camera, see that chap over there, he, suddenly he explodes.

Get your hand off my penis! He bellows. He points to the detective behind him. This is the book who got me on the penis before. He says, why did you do this to me? For what reason? What is the child?

Eating a meal? A suck of the Chinese meal? Then to an officer who can barely keep a grip on him. Oh, that's a nice headlock, sir. Ah, yes. I see that you know your judo well. He turns his attention to another officer. And you, sir, he asks, are you waiting to receive my limp penis?

An officer grabs his legs. How dare? The others lift him up and feet first into the car. Get your hands off me, comes to demand. Finally, he allows himself to be apprehended. but not without a parting, Tata and farewell to the camera. Dappan continues,

you have to watch the video for yourself to fully appreciate the theatrics. A generation of Australian millennials know the script by heart. He is a masterful, indomitable, bombastic, aggrieved and funny. You can hear a TV news reporter sniggering in the background

and you get the sense that the police wished desperately they had not invited the media to witness this particular arrest. I wonder why there was media there. It's really interesting because... It's so bizarre. It's kind of disputed as to why.

But yeah, the Channel 7 reporter I'm going to quote from him in a second. He tells his version of it how he came to be there. And yeah, I will be quoting a bit from Dappen's book. He's probably done by far the most research that I could find on his life. And is it just a part of Carnage, the book, or is the whole book about him? Well, it really, he is like the, his entryway into some pretty grisly stuff. Like, I didn't, I haven't even read through the whole book because a lot of the center chapters are about grisly murders, like quite grisly murders that he was sort of tangentially involved. Because he's been in prisons and he knew the person who knew the person or he spent time.

So he used that as a window into these stories. But yeah, I'm only only, I'm quoting certain chapters that are appropriate to this episode, of course. But yeah, like, for instance, our man, the succulent Chinese man, meal man, he, it's funny that there's a couple of distinctions there, isn't there? Yeah, but he, like his, he was married a couple times, but one of his wives was killed by an infamous serial killer. probably, but I haven't gone through those chapters. The second Chinese meal man's wife was killed by a serial killer? Or, yeah, some sort of, yeah, in a real grisly sort of way as well.

Oh my God. One of his kids died in quite a rough way. And so I'm not going to go into those sort of things too much. It's probably just not really the appropriate thing for it. I mean, I know we've done it in the past. Yeah, but we've grown. We've grown and changed. I mean, I think it was two months ago.

I did a story about a serial killer. And we've grown. We've grown in those two months. But for some rate, this, I don't know why, but this particular story, it feels like it's such a gear change. And I mean, there will be some grim stuff, but I won't dwell on it too much. So, yes, why did the police invite the media to film the arrest? Well, apparently they received a call saying that one of Australia's most wanted criminals

was at the restaurant, and they called the media to make sure it was caught on camera. they're going to have this big arrest. There's a lot of inconsistencies in the story. Everyone's telling it slightly differently. Even that line itself, I've seen written three different ways. Australia's most wanted criminal, Queensland's most wanted criminal, and Victoria's most wanted criminal.

But yeah, about the incident, the ABC's Lawrence Bull rights, he was treating it, this is the succulent Chinese meal man. He was treating a friend to lunch at one of his favorite local restaurants. He'd been there so many times that he'd been, He'd often be offered a complimentary drink. A fraud investigator working for American Express.

Glass of water. For free. Sparkling. They love me here. Yeah, that's the kind of cloud I have in this establishment. Yeah, sparkling? No. Absolutely not.

I hate that shit. Can you leave the jug? No. No, no. Well, top you up once. We need to give that to other customers. A fraud investigator working for American Express was tracking someone who had been paying the restaurant using stolen credit cards. Bull continues.

The investigator called Triple O, which is our emergency. Yeah, or what's the English one? 99. 999. And some international is a 112. Oh, there you go. Then perhaps pushing for a quick capture, he reported, this is the American Express investigator, he reported him as one of Queensland's most wanted.

Police surrounded the restaurant, corralled the waiting media and interrupted the lunch. he was as calm as anything former police detective Adam Furman says of the arrest Furman we'll talk about later he's one of the plainclothes cops So watching on as the others wrestling or is here? He's there

him and his plane clothes or you know plain clothes as in suit and tired detective cops that were the two that had the he touched my penis which I'll talk about towards the end how they dealt with all of that

because apparently one of them wrote an article eventually saying, I did not. I had to come out for this footage of it when he clearly hasn't. To make a statement. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure it was a little bit tongue and cheek. But Furman says, he was happy to go with us. Well, as happy as you can be as you're being arrested until he saw all the media.

And that's when he just went berserk. And apparently the dramatic performance ended as soon as they were out of sight of the cameras. Furman says, as soon as we drove away, he stopped and he said, that was fun. That's really good At the other end There was no fight Getting him out of the car Nothing

It was all put on for the cameras Which is their fault The cameras were there Exactly Yeah Dappen spoke to the Channel 7 reporter Who covered the story Chris Reason

Who I think you'd recognise him If you saw him I'll show you a quick picture He's like He's a good name for a TV journalist Chris Reason Very trustworthy You know I'm from...

Maybe not? No, I don't think I recognise him, but I... Very vaguely familiar, but he just sort of looks like most middle-aged white men. Well, yeah, probably you two, maybe, I know, probably not as engaged with journalism and that sort of stuff. I know you having done a journalism degree probably discounts what I've just said. Worked to the ABC for six years. Yeah, well, he's a commercial guy. Yeah, so I wouldn't know him.

I wouldn't know him. You call that lamestream pap. Correct. Anyway, he's a multi-Walkly award-winning journalist, also multi-Loggi award-winning. Okay. Really? This reason. My gosh.

And he was just a 20-something-year-old rookie reporter at the time of the Democracy Manifest arrest. He, yeah. Democracy Man arrest? Manor-Rest. Is it? You know, I'm just trying. That's actually really good. Thanks, man.

Yeah. My patience. The list is I'm high-fiving. The air. Yeah, because neither of them took me up on it. And they're both, if you don't know, they're out of arms reach in the studio. Yeah, but we're within arms reach to each other. And I'm going to high-five you, Jess, for your fantastic pun.

Democracy, man arrest. Yeah, well. What democracy man arrest? Yeah. Was that where you're implying that a little bit? No, just like manifest manorrests. It was more of a pun-manteau. Yeah.

It was a punmento. Yeah, I love that. So this is back to Dappen. When I rang reason to ask him about the arrest, he told me that he had been working as a rookie TV reporter in Queensland in 1991 when he received information that the fraud squad were going to arrest the suspect. Those were the days he said, this is so funny, the way he still working journalists talks about the heyday of them being cops and journalists working.

Those were the days when police used to tip you off prior to raids and didn't go off and shoot at themselves and hand you the video. The great old day is when you had contacts and you whined them and dined them, the cops, and you lived in their pockets and they lived in yours. And there was this great symbiotic relationship between crime reporters and police. It's so funny. The great days when we whined and dine cops. And famously, Queensland had quite a problem with their police department in the 1980s.

Yeah, super corrupt. Yeah. Anyway. Ah, the good old days. The good old days. And I used to manipulate people into doing what I wanted to benefit me and only me. Yeah, you know, you know what journalists do?

We make the news and then report on it. Yeah. We organise it with the cops, you know, journalism. Anyway, he said they thought it was a far bigger, it was far bigger in the crime world than the man actually turned out to be saying, this is the call he reckons he got. We're going to be hitting him at this restaurant. Get down in now.

We're going to make an arrest. And the Channel 7 officers were close by to the restaurant. So he was able to arrive with a cameraman really quickly, as reason and recounts. We raced up and there was this larger than life, physically strong guy coming out. There were three or four cops on top of him and he was holding them at bay. They just couldn't get him into the back of this old police falcon. It is genuinely incredible to watch how hard it is for them just to get him to do anything. Yeah.

He is whilst giving a Shakespearean soliloquy. Yeah, yeah. Like, it is incredible the strength he must have. They're really struggling. He not only refused to go quietly, he wanted to go very noisily. He just had this stream of consciousness of brilliant one-liners, and a very serious story was suddenly very comical. The team took the tape back to the newsroom,

and when the footage was shown, reason continues, the news editor fell about laughing. Everybody came into the edit booth to have a look. The next day, someone rang up and said they stuffed it up. It wasn't the guy they thought it was. This guy was just a petty criminal. It was a case of mistaken identity, apparently. Before it went viral online, the arrest went viral around the Channel 7 news offices as reason remembers.

For years afterwards, people would randomly shout in the newsroom, get your hand off my penis. That's so good. Let's go out for a succulent Chinese meal. It became a part of the lexicon, part of the culture. It was a full 18 years after the arrest, though, that the footage was uploaded to YouTube. And while the footage was from the Channel 7 report, it wasn't of the story that aired back in 91. Reason said, the tape that went up on YouTube hasn't got my voice on. It's the original raw tape.

See a bit filthy about that? Well, he's like... So that could have been me. I was given some fantastic... I was also being very quippy. Yeah. But he's also like, obviously they got the raw footage. Whoever put it up is probably...

It was passed around inside of the industry before being uploaded. For years after the video was uploaded, no one was sure who the man being arrested was, as the video didn't have his reporting of the incident. And even if it had, the man was going by a different alias at the time, so may not have helped anyway. Even in 2019, when the Guardian was calling it the Aussie meme of the decade, they weren't sure of his identity, calling him simply an incredibly dramatic man. The article says, this is back in 2019, the original video identifies the man as Paul Charles Dozer,

a Hungarian Australian chessmaster, who was recorded by numerous newspapers in the 1980s as a prolific dawn and dasher. But the article concedes, it's a good story, but there is no actual evidence that this video is of Dozer. And people who knew him say the man in the clip does not look or sound like him.

Okay. Well, that's a pretty good clue, I think. That's the story I always read. years and years ago. The chess, yeah. Chessman. Hungary and chess master. Who was famous for dining and dashing.

And they finally got Nimb. Yes. And I think they took one and one and got four sort of thing. You know, like that old saying goes. And, um, and, uh, yeah, I reckon he does look a bit like him, but yeah. I've looked up the Hungarian guy. Yeah. But those are, uh, spoke with a Hungarian accent.

Yeah. And clearly our man did not. I love that it was like quoted around the Channel 7 office for a. Because I think when I first saw it was probably right before one of our UK tours, so 2018 maybe. And you in particular, Dave, were quoting it a lot on that tour. Every time I walked into a room, oh, yes. Yeah, but it was also every time you just wanted to say yes to a question. I'd be like, should we go get some food?

Ah, yes. Like, it was, and I'm not saying that as a criticism, I loved every second of it. It was a lot of fun. That yes in particular makes me think of you now. Ah, yes. Ah, yes. That's an underrated line, because every element of the speech is brilliant. Yes.

But that, ah, yes, bit is probably the least quoted one. Yeah, and then I see you know your judo well. My favorite, I'm not sure even sure if it was part of the recap, but my absolute favorite bit is. But you just assured me that I could speak. Oh, yes, that's right. And then I go to buy something like, look, no one's assured you of anything. Yeah. No one's assured you of anything, sir.

You just assured me? I could speak. And they're like, no, he didn't. Just like in this, like this, because he's got this beautiful big voice and it looks like tiny little Queenslander voice. No one's assured you of anything. No, no, I didn't say nothing. Yeah, so funny.

Yeah, so it says, just a minute, you just assured me that I could speak. Sit down inside the car. We're not assuring anything. You're under arrest. Look, I'm under what? I'm under what? Yeah, that was it. Yeah, that was it.

I'm under what? Yeah, that's it's just every single line of it is so iconic. It's brilliant. It's so. funny that even if like it did come out that it was just a sketch I'd be like well that's the best thing that's ever been written like that's way funny how do you come up with it? Who thought of that? What kind of fucking amazing genius thought that that's so funny? Get them a TV show. Even better that's just straight off the top of a dome of a guy who's just like oh I'm just going to fuck around

because there's cameras here and then gets in the car and behaves perfectly. So funny. And he goes all right on to the station boys. Yeah. No let's yeah let's get this paperwork sorted out no problem. Very funny stuff. Yeah. And yeah, that Guardian article back in just 2019, so after we're already like over quoting it, yeah, the article said it could be Dozer, it could be someone else or a scripted skit even, we're not sure. Yeah, I think it's so funny thing about the Times, right of another theory. Apparently it was thought he was John Bartlett, a former New South Wales politician,

which in turn inspired a tribute pop song by the satirist Brian Pern, the lyrics, John Bartlett ate a Chinese meal, a succulent Chinese meal. That's beautiful. Have you looked at, does John Bartlett look any way of like him? Or like a Hungarian chess grandmustum? They all look slightly alike. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I reckon a little bit.

Ah, yeah. The Moe was doing a bit of the heavy lifting, but yes. Yeah, but similar. I see it. Oh, and then I guess I should show you Paul. It's funny, like, the photo, some of the photos. Does it come up of the Suckling Chinese meal? That's really funny.

It's clearly not him, but you can see that there could see there could be a result. If you had like one of those old school police lineups. Yeah. Which one of these men was the man? You could, that guy could be in the lineup. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you could describe if the words of the description would be similar. Yeah.

Sort of roundish face, reddish cheeks. Yep. silver, you know, but you look at them side by saying, like, it's not the same guy. Yep. That guy kind of looks like, he looks like a

Norm MacDonald character or something, which will help put the picture in people's minds. It looks like Norm McDonald who is playing a professional ten pin bowler. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I think we got it. I think that if I, if this becomes a series. Is that anything? Is that anything? Is that what everyone, else is thinking. Yeah, we're all thinking that. We're all thinking.

Not a dull character, Tempe and Bolle, yes? Sometimes I'll get stuck into, like, into doing a certain genre. We all do, like, a certain genre of topics for a while. Maybe this will be my thing, and I'll do the background of different memes, and I can do the, Who Do You Think You Are? I am. Oh, yeah. I'd love to know his story, but I doubt it's as wild as this guy's that I'm telling you about.

Weber, says his name? I, I, I'd. No idea. But let's find out. Next week. Yeah, that's right. That is why I did it. Equally, just another great spurt of sort of nonsense, but sort of like poetry.

Who do you think you are? I love, that's great too. So, Urb Dozer, the Hungarian chessman, dappen writes, from Hungary, he arrived in Australia in 1965. He was a creative, if not brilliant chess player who won the New South Wales Chess Championship in 1977. He credited this is not where I saw this. going. He credited his chest skill to an implant placed into his body by what he called Hungarian military research during his time as an Eastern Bloc secret agent. Okay.

Wild stuff. Yeah. Are they like sort of morse coding him? How to E5. Hey, I don't think he was really sure about it. He wrote about it in his own words on his website, though, saying, quote, The knowledge of the Hungarian research is extremely advanced. Since 1958, I did not have taken any medicine, painkiller or sleeping pill.

They have been replaced with harmonising electromagnetic waves and hypnotic suggestions. The way of the communication is Budapest Research Centre satellite and my implant. The researchers can dominate the implanted subject's mind and control their body. They can kill any of us who has the implant or can make us mentally or physically ill. Or good at chess. Or go to sleep. Hmm. So. I wouldn't mind.

chip that I could then like connect to my phone and I could be like okay night time off to sleep oh you and you turn the phone off and you turn off and you set your alarm and you're Bluetooth it's an app I've got an app on my phone oh that you can turn your own chip off yeah yeah yeah I definitely trust I can go to sleep I trust that good decent sleep yeah yeah yeah I thought you wanted to watch tic-tok's in your sleep okay now that's good just as much more TikTok's in front of our eyes. I could get so much more Tick-Tocking done. So much.

You could be TikTok in like 18 hours a day. Perfect. Instead of the 17, you're doing right now in my head. We wouldn't know. You'd just start laughing. I'd be having a much better time. Yeah. Have you watched any murder bot?

No. He, like the murder bot played by Scars Guard or whatever. He's doing that a lot. Other, the people he works with are talking, but he's watching, he's downloaded like all sorts of, um, weird space dramas and stuff that he's watching in his mind's eye. Does he do a bit of nodding to make it look like he's in public conversation? But really it's learning about black holes.

So, yeah, not sure how true this implant story is. Really? I get the feeling maybe it's not fully true. I believe it. But if it is true, perhaps one of their secret goals was to make him a world club. us, dine and dasha. Because he was the best of the best.

Really? That's pure profit for the Hungarian government. They haven't paid for a million years. Did anybody else's dad's, when you'd go out for dinner at a restaurant, make a joke every single time about doing a runner? Just my dad? I don't think so.

In what way? At the end when the bill comes, be like, oh, sorry, and then just pretend to run away? No, no, no, he would just sort of like, he would be like, have you got good shoes on? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we don't run it, you know? That's fun.

Every time. Yeah. It's like you had your own succulent Chinese man at home. Don't you dare? Do you think your dad had a chip? And was he got a chess? I think okay at chess. Okay.

But maybe a chip, yeah. That makes sense. I love the chip just makes them a massive tight-ups. Yeah, yeah. Do you want to pay for a meal? Really good at chess and bad at paying my bill. Seagulls love chips. Is there anything there?

Because they're sort of scavengery. and, oh, something. Is that something there? It's worth exploring, I think, yeah. Maybe on your own time, yeah. You come back in, I got the red, the red wool. Yeah, the string, I've gone for wool. String.

No, I've gone for wool. Fuck, I stuffed it out. Oh, yeah, thank you. It's so thick. And more. You can't see anything on there. The board's just knitted. I learned to knit.

I'm so deep into this now. I can't stop. I'm cross-stitching. I'm back-stitching. My wife left me for this. I'm not. I'm needle-nodding. Yep.

No, that's definitely a thing. Yeah, that one's the thing. Adapin writes, by March 1990, Dozer was facing his 79th charge of refusing to pay for a restaurant meal. So what was the charge? Refusing to pay for a meal. There you go. He was then 50 years old.

and he had enjoyed soup, oysters, fillets steak and salad, wine, dessert, cognac and canpari at the gourmet manor house restaurant in Belmain. That's a lot. That's too much. I thought it was just, I thought it was just soup at first. I was like, who cares? Yeah, the first couple of things, I was like, what a dull lunch or like not for me. But he just said yes to everything.

Yes, yes, yes. Any digestives? Yeah, three cogniaks. Okay. To help me digest. No one ever, we don't even have the coniates. No one ever says yes ever. I've never had someone say yes.

Nobody's ever accepted a dessert wine. It's crazy to think, but this is a highfalutin dinner. Back in 1990, the bill was $119.19. What a year. He called the police on himself, apparently. What? Alleging that he had held up the restaurant staff. This is what he said to the cops on the phone.

He was drunk. He had too many frequent games. And then the manor house was storned by armed officers. who were coming to respond to what they thought was an armed robbery, but it wasn't. So, yeah, armed officers from the tactical response group found him sitting at his table, digesting his lunch. He said, quote,

my name is Paul Dozer. I pay for no meals. Take me away. Was he hoping you would create some sort of distraction that he could run out on? I don't know. Paul, what's you playing here, buddy? Paul, babe. Do the government tell you to do this for the chip?

It's fair Have you guys seen the Princess Bride It's got a bit of that Oh Niko Monta My name is Did you just ask me if I have seen The Princess Bride? Yeah

Have you never seen it No I've heard good things Yeah Do you reckon? It's great flick Oh Give it a go I'm kidding

I fucking love the Princess Bride Because what's his line Say the line again What did he say My name is Boldosa I pay for no meals Take me away Not prepare to take me

Yeah. Doesa subsequently informed a court that he had hoped to get his name in the Guinness Book of Records for Criminal Lunching. Oh, wow. Okay, because you got it with the Guinness, you've got to document everything really well. Yeah. Yeah. But he doesn't have receipts. I know, but it's so true.

So true. I was so proud of that. That's really good. You love me. But if he's got 79 arrests, confirmed. Right. According to Courtney Frye writing for pedestrian by 995.

the renowned meal thief had achieved a self-reclaimed world record of 111-dine and dash convictions. I know Courtney Fry. Sorry, I just got excited. She works at Triple J. Courtney? Courtney, you're listening right now? Courtney? Probably not.

No. Why would you know? Sorry, I got confused. I just said your name. Yeah. She didn't just say my name. No. Courtney!

Sorry, the Hungarian chipping my brain is playing up. But all good things must come to an end. And just as a friend, Courtney, says, It was reported in the chess section of the weekend Australian in 2003 that Mr Dozer had passed away at age 63. While Doza had a passing resemblance to the Democracy Manifester ST, it was not him, the lack of Hungarian accent in the viral video being the greatest clue. Also that he wasn't the same person.

You can tell that boy with your eyes as well as you is. That's the second greatest clue. That's the second greatest clue. And that's why detectives go through rigorous training to detect. They're the best of the best. It's perhaps possible that he was still connected to the arrest, though. Maybe the case of mistaken identity wasn't just about the viral video,

but it's possible it also occurred on the day of the arrest. It's possible that the man, the American Express fraud investigator, was after was Dozer and just happened to finger another man, a man we now know as Jack Carlson. Was there footage of that in fingering? Touch me with your finger. Oh, did you see that man? This is the man who touched me on the penis.

So who was Jack Carlson? Well, he's gone by a few different names over the years, and we'll hear a bunch of them throughout this episode, but he was born Cecil George Edwards in Queensland in 1942. It was a great name. Cecil George Edwards. And yeah, he went by a bunch of great names. His childhood was rough, very, very grim childhood.

Hood, he didn't have much of a relationship with his parents, and he was abused and mistreated in state-run boarding schools. I've gone to Dappen, in February, 1956, he was convicted of nine charges. I've skipped over there, but it was, you know, grim stuff in his childhood. Skipping past that, the system was bad. Yeah. Conradapin, in February of 1956, he was convicted of nine charges of stealing and two charges of willful destruction of property.

So at this point is 1314. Less than a fortnight later, he was ordered to pay restitution on two more charges of destruction of property. And in November, he was convicted of destruction of property and stealing a car and was sent to Westbrook Farmhouse for Boys near Toowoomba, which was, yeah, also not very nice. Sadly, the abuse continued here. Physical, maybe sexual as well. Things were so bad, he decided to escape. He said that's the only option And this is

This is something he does a bit over his life A bit of an escape artist Dappen writes Carlson and his friends fled west at sunset They believed they would not be caught As they could not be seen Because they were running into the sun But no

They captured me said Carlson Took me back I didn't want to stay there It was terrible His punishment for escaping Was being stripped naked And flogged with a leather strap Real horrific stuff

apparently you couldn't make any if you made a sound you had to say sir oh sir it's just like everything about is really awful yeah like some of the stuff from there and the place

he was earlier as a child like he wet the bed a bit and they their way of dealing with that was you know humiliation yeah and I think they've made him sleep under the floor because kids who suffer a lot of trauma

wet the bed. So traumatized them all. So his whole, yeah, the whole childhood was pretty, pretty, pretty grim. Yeah, sounds awful. At the age of 16, he was released. In Dappen's words, he was full of fury. On the outside, Carlson hung around with adult criminals. He became a bodgy.

You familiar with that term? No, it's a bodgy. I'd heard it before. This is a corner wiki. It was a youth subculture that existed in Australia and New Zealand in the 1950s, similar to the rocker culture in the UK or the greaser culture in the United States. Most bodgies rode motorbikes, but some had cars, many of which were embellished with accessories such as mag wheels and hot dog mufflers.

Bodgies engage in violence, but there was never any motive behind these acts. Males were called bodgies and females were called whitties. So you're trying to look tough, but you call yourself a bodgy and a whizgy. Yeah. So because the overseas mill had greases. and rockers. And Australia had bodgies. Bodgies.

That's not as cool, is it? No. No. And I think like with Teddy Boys in England, similarish as well, maybe? I don't know. Which again, doesn't sound. Teddy boys, yeah. I'm like, great.

Oh, no. In May of 1959. So, yeah, apparently in the book, Dappen says that he had, like, I can I remember the phrase. He has a lot of great phrasing in the book, but he said something like, something about a magnificent. magnificent quiff.

Quiff, quiff, quiff, quaff, quiff. Which would I describe what you were trying to say is, are the hair quiff? The high hair, yeah. That's quiff. I mean, I say, this is a person with a magnificent quiff. You're a beautiful quiff. Very, very, I think it was buffon, even. Oh, buffon.

I can't wait for the um-acturys. Yes, I've got a big quif, okay. It's beautiful. We don't have to argue that. I got to know Barbara and say, uh, short back insides, leave the quip. When he says my barber, that's the name of the auntie who gives him a quiff. This one for you. Thanks, Aunty, Barbara.

We call her barber. One of those cute little childhood things. My cousin couldn't say Barbara, called her barber. It's stuck. Which is Auntie Barbara. And I get a quiff. I mean, I have an auntie that we call tow, so it is possible. Toe?

Yeah. Because you're going to say Toad. Thanks, Auntie Toad. So in May 1959 he was done for stealing another car and again for theft later in the year. He and his mates then went on a crime spree with a slew of break-ins in small shops in South Queensland. Then according to Dappen, they fled across the border to New South Wales where they adopted pseudonyms. Carlson, who had been gone by the name of Chick Edwards, now called himself Mason. But their names could not hide their faces and the Queensland coppers just came across the border,

grabbed us in tweedheads and took us back, said Carlson. Carlson was remanded in Brisbane Jail, which is better known as Boggo Road. It's like their... Oh my God. I love Australia. I love us so much. It's like their pentridge, basically. So the Bodgis been remanded at Boggo Road.

Bodgy and Boggo. Honestly, how do other countries take us seriously at all? I think Bodgie... Bodgie is like dodgy. bodgy, that's, like it would, like they didn't, I don't think it started them going, wear bodgies. No, it's like, yeah. And there was like a group of apparently brutal cops, a task force that just stamped out

the bodgy subculture with brutality. Wow. Because, you know, like, Pearl Clutches blame bodgies for everything, you know, because they were the youth. Yeah. It's weird, that's, that has happened before. It's so funny how that happens every generation, every generation, every generation then still does it to the next generation.

I know, it's funny because we say that, but Gen X, man, they're... The problem is that every generation is worse than last. Gen Z? The alphas. Oh, those alphas. It's just getting worse out there. Jeez, you're sending... You're sending it up and down. Oh, 100%. But millennials are fine. Peak of culture. Oh, yeah. Peak of society.

Future leaders. Gen Alpha? No hope. Back to Dappen. So, yeah, he's in Boggart. Road. Which is a pretty grim place, sounds like it. Yes. He says that the red brick walls cheerfully tuck pointed like a monstrous lolly shop

were infused with the pain of the prisons passed as a place of execution. Wow, that's quite poetic. I like how Dappen describes the prison, quite poetically again, writing, Boggo Road was a shithole. It smelled of shit, and the prisoners were treated. like shit, shot on by the waters as they had been shot on by the courts. There was no plumbing in the cells of the decayed and overcrowded Edward in remand wing. Just shit tubs to be shared between shit men, then emptied at the dunny parade each morning.

So no plumbing. Just a bucket. And he was in a three to a cell sharing one bucket. And the food wasn't good. And pretty quickly, they did, they were so hungry, but they're like, this food is not right. right, but they're so hungry that to eat, got food poisoning. And, yeah. When you're shitting in a bucket?

Yeah, they're spewing shitting in a bucket. It got to the brim, but they're told, you only get one bucket a day. You can't clean it out till the Dunny parade in the morning, which I imagine is a lot of pomp and ceremony, the Donny parade. Yeah. Who's the marching band, I think, yeah. The king and the monarchs of the Dunny parade. I think it's sort of like a good behaviour thing. So if you, you're, it's like getting employee of the week.

Yeah. It's so you get to be the king of the dunny parade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually very excited. Get a crown and scepter. That's right. Septic. Septic, septa.

That's horrific and very unhygienic. So gross, but it, I mean. Rife for infection. Yeah, do you, I don't know. Do you want, there's a bit more to the story, skip it? Probably. Okay. Do they just throw it through the window?

Yeah. Carlson was like going please get us another bucket we we desperately need somewhere another bucket and they they said no it's one tub per cell why'd you ask I'm fascinated Carlson called him a filthy dog so the water got his senior officer to come down also said no you can't have a clean bucket so then Carlson threw the bucket at the cop fair cop yeah and then he said, can you imagine what they'd done to me? And Dappen says, wow, he said, as if remembering something he had seen happen to someone else. After he was beaten, Carlson was taken to solitary confinement in the Black Peter, a dungeon at the foot of a flight of stone steps sealed by

a trapdoor. His cell was a narrow space between two thick walls flanked by steel doors. There was no interior light. It was as dark as fear. Another good line from Dapton. That is good. God, he's good. He's a very good writer. Dapin continues. Carlson slept on a mat and shat into a small bowl. Each day he was given only half a loaf of bread and a panic in a water, so he soon could not shit at all. He was just a 17-year-old boy, alone and helpless.

Oh my God, I forgot that he's a teenager. Yeah. Crazy. Says he's alone and helpless, turning in on himself, buried alive, screaming. It's just like pitch black darkness. And at this point, he was still being held on romance. remand. He hadn't even face court yet for his charges. You know, hadn't been found guilty. Lawrence Bull interviewed Carlson for ABC's earshot in 2022 and according to Bull, the Black Peter

was the worst thing Jack had ever experienced. He'd bang on the doors and fight with the guards just so he could see the light for a few minutes while they bashed him. The man in the cell next to him had been there for months. He finally lost his mind and was hauled off to an asylum. Jack still has nightmares about the Black Peter. He still sleeps with the light on. Oh, that's horrific. What a way to treat a troubled kid. Yeah. Or just a human being in general, obviously.

But yeah, when it's a kid, you're like, this is fuck. This will rehabilitate, I reckon. Yeah, this will sort him out. We'll knock it out of him. Yeah, that's awful. Back to Dappen. He was eventually allowed out to face his charges in court, but the prisoner who climbed up the stairs and through the jaws of the trapdoor was a changed person.

He pleaded not guilty. I defended myself, he said. I kept making a swine of myself. Cross-examining coppers and saying to the judge, yeah, go on, you're going to sentence me to jail. You've never been there. You don't know what you're sending me. You don't know where you're sending me.

He was sentenced to five years hard labour. Wow. After being released, he married a woman named Monica, and in 1965 they had a child named Barbara. My auntie. Could have been your auntie. In Melbourne. Soon after, he was convicted of petty larceny

in charge with housebreaking and possession of explosives. So the young family fled to McKay, then Mary Borough in Queensland. There he ran his own pest control business by day and burgled by night. Oh. When drinking heavily one day, he was picked up by the cops for drunken disorderly conduct and charged with using obscene language and resisting arrest. Unfortunately, that one wasn't caught on camera, but I imagine it would have been pretty good as well. I bet it was also a bit of fun.

They took his fingerprints and then realized he was also wanted in Melbourne. as well as for some burglaries in Meriburra. After a three-month stint at Bogor Road, he was set to face court in Merriboro. So he sort of wanted in different jurisdictions for his crimes, and you've done your time there, now you're going to have to go face the court in Merriborr. And according to Dappen,

police plan to transport him by rail from Brisbane to face court in Meriburra, handcuffed to another prisoner who was going north on a separate charge. And this is... His second, I guess, and slightly more successful escape. The first one, he ran into the sun, and that didn't really work. Okay. This one, he says... Run away from the sun.

He told Bull, I was pretending to be asleep. And the cop is opposite me. He's nodding off a bit as well. So I've just undone the handcuff with the prong of my belt. Tippy toad down the corridor and leapt out of the bloody train. Apparently, the handcuffs were a lot easier to pick back then, but... He just jumped off a moving train? Jumped off a moving train.

Wow. Just like that. escaped and freedom felt good. From there, Carlson said, I was careful. I'd just stay in the bush for a day and have a night. It was so beautiful, the breeze, that air. It's have a night. I don't get it.

Stay in the bush for a day and have a night. Yeah. Okay. I make a night of it. Yeah, it's have a night. In the bush? Yeah. Okay.

For a day. And then you'd have a night. And then you'd have a night. It's like, it is like talking to a brick wall sometimes. beautiful and poetic like a lolly shop I don't know that quote was before Yeah Oh really cute

Brick roll Brick roll You just got brick rolled Uh no yeah I don't really know what he means either Yeah But I think he's just Yeah

He's talking Yeah He's talking well listening Yeah Yeah sure thing whatever No but he like He is just These are just quotes from an interview

There's all, like I heard all this, the audio of this. Yeah. So, you know, we don't all nail. Or that is just like old-timey, Aussie speak, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, not everybody speaks perfectly every single time they open their mouths. No, not back then. That would be crazy. Back, I mean, we do.

What? Oh, my God, actually, yeah, now that I think about it, we've never fumbled. I'm on the hottest streak of all time. Yeah, yeah. Thousands of years never mucked up. Hot done. How about his line? It was so beautiful.

The breeze, that air. Freedom. That's nice. Dappen writes, according to a press report at the time, the escape prisoner was Helmut Markson, aka Cecil George Edwards. It's not a bad. Helmut Markson.

That's pretty good. Like an interesting, like, rememberable. Yeah, memorable. Yeah, if I'm meeting a guy called helmet, I'm remembering that. And then when there's a prisoner on the loose named Helmut in the news, I'd be like, hey on, I met a helmet.

You know, go for me. Max. Yeah, well, maybe once he's out, I think he probably changes it again. Yeah, boring names. Timothy Johnson. Yes. Dime a dozen names. Dimer dozen, great name.

Dimer. Hello, I'm Dimer. Dime a dozen. Is that a good drag name, maybe? I think so. Dime a dozen? Dimer. Dime.

Yeah. First name, just because that's cute. Yeah. A dozen. I think normally one element is like a real name. Yeah, dime. Dime. Dime.

Dime. I've never heard of a dime. Beautiful. Love a name. There you go. Boy or girl. Dapin continues. The Brisbane Criminal Investigation Bureau, C.I.B, warned the public that the fugitive was violent and could use a firearm, even though he wasn't and he didn't have one.

But he could use one if he had one and knew how to use it. Yeah, that's like everything about it just seems like bullshit. If he had one and in the days he's been missing, has met with someone. who is qualified to train others in using firearms and has done so. So, you know, be wary. And even though he's had no history at all of violence, even in his arrests, or when he's being held in prison, yep.

He's very dangerous. We know, we can tell. Very violent this one. We can tell. He's ready to go. Yeah. Yeah, imagine someone who hasn't been violent all this time. Poor.

They must be about to be really violent. Yeah, they've got violent, it's a pent-up and stuff. That's right. They've been letting it out. Oh my goodness. And we've treated him. We've been bashing the shit out of him. So he knows what it looks like to be violent.

He's been bottling up a lot. We've been said, let it out, mate. Let out your violence. Yeah. And he won't, but he will soon. He's ready to explode. Yeah, we've been saying things singing off key, me, me, ma-mo. Me-mo, my, me.

Roadblocks were set up on the highway in and out of town and every vehicle was checked. The suspect was described as having a fair complexion, green eyes, mull on the left side of his face and a mop of fairer. brown hair. Did you have him all on the side of your face? No. Okay. He was also still wanted in Melbourne for possession of explosives.

In Sydney, he was met by his young family and scored work as a sales manager, saving enough money to co-found a photographic studio in Newtown. Right. This is taking a real turn. So he's made it past the checkpoints, obviously. Yeah, he got out. He just had a night. Under a new name, had a night.

Enjoyed the day. Had a night. Now, would you post for the photo, please? I think he just means he had a know. Like, he just chose. for the night. That's what that means, right? Yeah, probably. That's how I read it.

But also, like, based on that, I do that every day. You had a not? I have a day and then I have a night. Yeah, but that's the thing. To you, you're taking it for granted. He, a newly free man. He's enjoying having a night. Yeah, it's so nice just to have a night.

Whereas for me, it's like, it's default. Yeah. I'm so privileged. Man, I just realize I'm having a night tonight. What? I often, often on record days, I've got a gig after. Yeah. And it's always like, oh, I can't be fucked.

Yeah. And I'm always glad when I'm there, but that bit in between, you might see me just pick up in pace a bit now, now that I'm like, oh, I can go to bed straight after this. Yeah, yeah, you're like, let's get out of here. A sap. And then, I don't worry about that. And then that. And then basically, you get the juice. And, ah.

All right, Patreon section. And, uh, these three people end up taking goodbye. And da. And da. So, yeah, he started a photographic studio, a new town. But his life of crime also continued. and he was soon charged with obtaining credit by fraud. In September of 1996, he was sentenced to spend nine months doing hard labor at Long Bay,

meaning he would have missed seeing the Saints one and only the NFL-AFL-A-Fle premiership. I thought he'd missed it. I missed it. I heard 66 and thought he's so engrossed in the story. September 66 as well. He's missed the whole finals campaign, probably. Really? Yeah.

Oh my gosh, that poor guy. And just to rub some of the wounds, at the end of his sentence, he was sent to Melbourne, you know? Like, this is where you could have seen it. Yeah, at least you could have, like, absorb some of the feeling in the city. Yeah, because the city comes alive. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, we love it.

And when he was sent to Melbourne, he was held just up the road at Pentridge Prison, on remand for earlier charges related to safe cracking and burglary. That's where you go to get your haircut or a massage or see a movie. Yeah. Good. Do you think about who was here? Who sat in this chair? Well, I think, well, the list of previous.

episodes were held at Pentridge grows. Mm-hmm. Because now we've got Carlson, but Ned Kelly was held there for a bit. Chopper Reed. Mm-hmm. What was the greatest, what was her name? Australia's greatest imposter or whatever. Oh, I've forgotten her name, but I remember the story.

She was held there. She was there too. Wow. Yes. Should we buy Pentridge? I think we should. Yeah. I really think we should.

So we just go, should we just buy it? Should we make an offer? Yeah. Like we can't make them or can we? You know what I mean? We've learned a bit about heavies. Yeah, we're little bodgies over here. Yeah, three bodgies.

Three bodges in a row. Hey? You'll be the bodgy smugglers. Is that anything? That's good story. We should do a live podcast. It's the history of Pentridge, live from the cinema or something. I would love.

That's a great idea. I would love to, yeah, do a live episode. So it is a beautiful building and it is very strange place to be a place you go and shopping centre now. Yeah, yeah. Because it's a lot of like all that nastiness at Boggo Road, similar stuff was happening at Pentridge. Oh, yeah. That was Melbourne's Boggo. Yeah.

To put it in a context, you might understand that sort of, Pentridge was Melbourne's Boggo. Boggo. They were at one point, they've got like, they do have like a little museum of the history there at Pentrystil. You know, they had this theory that you'd reform them by not letting them talk or see. So when they were let out only one hour a day, 23 hours locked up solitary, everyone. And if they were out, they had hoods over their head so they couldn't see or speak. So what's the point of being out? Just a bit of fresh air.

Yeah, I guess to walk around. I think, I mean, that's how I understood anyway. I'll figure it out better before I do the report. Yeah. This one? Yeah. Of his victims, Carlson told Bull, we didn't rob the poor, we only robbed the scum that were robbing us, the banks and the other vermin. Oh yeah, those vermin, those absolute dogs.

Some of them, it did sound like some of them was just small business owners, but anyway. Yeah, but they were scum, those ones. We only targeted the scum. At Pentridge, he met an American prisoner telling Dap, telling, what written it is, Dalpin, telling Dappan, I met a yank who was up for forgeries and I befriended him. We used to pace up and down the remand yard together and I'd protect him. He ended up in the office. They often put crims who could type in the office and all my records of escape.

He put aside somehow. So all the, which was a big favour to Carlson. Really? So alter this record? Yeah, if you are known as a serial escapeist, you're put in much. worse conditions in prison. Two hoods? Double hood, yeah, double bag.

Oh my God. So yeah, this was very fortunate for Carlson because if they knew he was a serial bail jumper and escape artist, he would have ended up in a very tough prison division as Dappen writes. Carlson would have expected to be transferred to H division at Pentridge, where the discipline was barbaric and men with a history of escaping were shown a place they really needed to get away from. But instead, he was sent.

to McLeod Prison Farm, a penal complex on scrubby, insect-infested French Island, some 60 kilometres southeast of Melbourne. The thinly populated island was a natural prison, the sea making for a more effective barrier than any wall. Over the years, luckless prisoners had tried to escape by swimming the waters of Western Port Bay to the far shore. Carlson told Bull, the governor called me in, this is when he arrived at the beachside penal colony farm. He showed me all these photos of prisoners who tried to escape, eaten by sharks or drowned. You can't get away from here, he said. Oh, well, I don't want to get away from here, I said.

It looks like a wonderful paradise. But as soon as I got there, there's me mate Pete working in the vegetable garden. Two days later, me and Pete, we took off. I love it here. Pete, I'll never leave. Pete, let's go to fuck out of here. I know how it's beautiful. I know that's beautiful.

Thanks so much for having me. This is gorgeous, Pete. Let's get the wrong around here. Pete, baby. Let's go. Daven continues. Carlson and his mate absconded late in the afternoon on the 12th of October, 1967. They trekked through mangrove swamps, mudflats and marshland,

and camped out at night amid bushes by the beach at a night. Do you can they hope to not miss the grand final again? Yeah, I think that's probably part of it. They're like, what if they go back to back? Sadly, still waiting to go back to anything. Patrols were sent out after them. They had this two-winged airplane flying along the beach every morning, looking for footprints.

We'd make sure... Thank God I didn't use a three-winged aeroplane. That really got him for some reason. It's such a funny... A two-winged aeroplane. Yeah, I think I'd use the one-winged aeroplane. I just went round a circle. I see. You're thinking...

You're not thinking of the two on each side. Yeah, I think there's two on one side of one on the other. This is giving me deja vu. to the Wright brothers episode or something. I think we got stuck on that. I think it was similarly stupid then. A bike plane and a drive plane. So, so yeah, they were pretty smart about it.

They knew that people were looking for footprints from above. So they'd walk while the tide was out at night because in the morning the tide would come in before the plane came over and wash away their footprints. On the beach, the fugitives found drums, which had once been used as boys. Bo-Bum-Bum-B-Dum. We just laid down a couple of six-four-four beats.

That killed a couple of hours in the bush. Dave, I mean, this is the first that the listeners will have heard it. But today, we've been hanging out for like five hours. That's your third beatbox break. It's true. I can't look at him right now. I'm going to warm up to it. I'm actually so mad at him.

Oh, come on. You literally asked before we started recording, you asked Jess, do you think I could be a beatboxer? And Jess said, please don't or something like that. No, I'm sure I was. In my mind, I'm a lot kinder than when you directly quote me. So it's interesting. It's interesting to see, you know, how I'm perceived.

I think I was probably saying like, oh, not right now. Maybe, yeah, maybe practice at home. So that was, you didn't say anything when I started crying. I think what she was saying was leave something for the others, you know? You already do so much so well. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's what I was saying.

What do you get a man who? Yeah, leave it. It's got everything. Yeah. A box. Come on. Razel needs this. And that Australian guy from...

Oh, Joel Turner. And Joel Turner. He needs it. He needs it. You don't need it. So they're still just on French Island. Sorry, and they found a drum. Obviously, not a drum kit.

I was having a bit of fun there. That was a little bit fun. You know where French Island is, though, right? No, I need to look it up. Yeah, because it rang a bell. So it's sort of in this little gap in Western Port Bay. So you've got like Balnarring and Dramana like the Mornington Peninsula on this side. And then this is Phillip Island around here.

Oh, yes, I do know, yes. So almost any direction you go, you'd be hitting mainland. It's not, it's only accessible, I think, by ferry. Mm-hmm. But I mean, I'm not going to say they could swim for it. But like, it's surrounded by other land. It sort of feels like a funny place to imprison people. It's not like a short swim.

No, God, no, no, no, no. And they're like, I guess that's why they, people did try it a lot. And that's why they were like, check these photos. People die trying to skate. Don't be silly. Don't be, don't try and swim. Why would I be silly? I love it here.

Later's. Back to Dappen. So, yeah, they found these drums that have been used as boys or buoys and other bits and pieces. They could have made up a makeshift raft. But instead they were like, I just want to rock out. Yeah. Turn that one to a snare drum. This is a Tom.

It's like, what? Let's rock. Let's do it. His mate's like, but shouldn't one of us play a different instrument? He's like, no, we're going to be the first all-drum band. Yeah. That's what, there's a gap in the market. Yeah.

And it's mad, it's like, they're already drumming bands. They're all-drum all the time. We're going to be the first. We're going to be the first. We're going to be great at it. On French Island, maybe then. How about that? He's like, looking for it.

What about them? What if we'd say first drum band or drum band in French Island, is that? So, yeah, they try to make up a makeshift raft. Carlson said, we lashed them together and away we went. We got a couple of hundred yards and it imploded. Luckily, it got back because I can't even swim. Oh, my gosh. He was stuffed if they couldn't just hold it together enough to get back onto land again.

As in back to French Island. They didn't not roll the way across. Carlson knew that the pilot of the plane would spot their wrecked raft and track their footprints leading to them from the debris and then he said, so he's like, we're stuffed but then we heard this boat, putting. It seemed like it was going in circles, he said. The boat stopped a short distance from the coast.

So it's a one-winged boat. One rudded. One odd boat. Someone about Degro Mondoya and the six-fingered man? Ah, the one-winged boat, prepared to die. At low-tire, yeah, so they find this boat, and it just seems to be sat there, you know, rocking in the waves at low tide the next morning.

So they were able to get out to it by walking across the flats, assuming that the boat had just run out of fuel. Carlson says, I've gone out and leapt on And there's this bloke asleep A fisherman, a Scotsman He said, What do you lads want? That's no good

Can you do it? What do you lads want? No, no, I think you actually do that perfectly. I feel like... I think it's just about confidence Because... Hot do you, lads want? Yeah, absolutely no notes.

It's good, because we do have quite a few Scottish listeners and I think they're going to have enjoyed that. They love being represented on this podcast. That's right, yeah, and so accurately and so respectfully. Well, because it's in my blood. That's right. Stuart, if you don't know, is a Scottish name. Yeah.

Yeah, so it would be inappropriate for me to try. I also know that... Perkins is an English name. I also know that Scottish people hate being called Scotch because it's not right. I see. So they'll enjoy this next line. But, yeah, so Carlson goes replies, we just want to go to the mainland. Can you take us over?

And this is what Carlson told Bull. He took us across to the mainland. What a good man. What a good man. A scotch man. He was a Scotch man. It's repeating it there. A Scotch man.

The reason I'm calling him a Scotch man, he was a Scotch. He loved Scotch, I think, is what I'm hearing. Yeah, yeah, that was probably all it was. There's such a beautiful thing. This is what he said. There's such a beautiful thing when you can escape from tyranny. God, I felt so good. His time on the outside didn't last too long, though.

He stole a series of cars that took him from the Mornington Peninsula to Queenbion and then to Sydney. In Sydney, he continued his life of crime. Then, according to Bull, Jack and his mate got caught cruising Parramatta late at night with safe cracking tools. Or safe breaking tools. On the 10th of January, Carlson and the other man, Peter Mound, who in Dappen's book, sounds like he might have been a neo-Nazi. Anyway, appeared at that court. And he, like, he described, he was in part of, like, he was, you know, like 22. and in this like saddest little breakaway Nazi group that had like 30 nationwide members

and he made it sound like it was, I mean, because it was pretty sad stuff. Yeah. As pathetic as it gets. Yeah, like it was like, you know, even when it's good, it's bad, but this was a bad version of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Doesn't get much longer than that. You can't even like, you know, looking for a silver line, you can't be like, well, they're very organized.

Yeah. I was like, you know. And apparently the leader of that chapter was real short. He's like, you know, what's wrong with that? It was real defensive about it. Very defensive, yeah. He's like, Hitler wasn't that tall either. That's not the time.

Yeah, that's not the example you want to use. Why do you? Well, they probably do. Yeah, but I certainly don't. If I was on a date with someone and hadn't said anything about their height and they were going, well, you know, Hitler wasn't very tall, I'd be like, I have diarrhea. And I must depart. Yeah.

Ro, Hitler once had diary, actually. Have you read his book? That's fascinating. I would, I, I'll look into that. Mine shot. Mind sharp. Mind shot. That is mine sharp.

Oh, God. Anyway, yeah, so that guy was a cunt. but um I don't know why that I enjoyed that so um but this is this leads to his next escape um

as Dappen tells it uh heading to to court uh Carlson delayed his entry a bit behind another prisoner and he took off his tide unbuttoned the colour of his shirt

and hung his coat over his arm and he'd lined the coat with some cash apparently. So I guess he was ready to go on the run. And he looked relaxed and casual as if he was at home in the court, as if, in fact, he was a detective. He told the other prisoners in the cell, I'm going to go in. When you see me walk back through, yell out,

you cop a dog, you loaded me up. He was going to fake being a detective. Oh, my God. You cop a dog. When police constable Kenneth Maker called for the next defendant, Carlson stepped in and asked, which court is Carlson meant to appear? And the constable said,

court four, and Carlson then introduced himself as Detective Rogers from CIB. He then pretended one of the other prisoners was his prisoner and said, I've got to get him, I've got to take him out while this cellmates cried. Detective scum, the coppers said,

where's the warrant? And Carlson said he became impatient with makers in prudence, the constable. I said, the warrants have gone round. Now, come on. And the hapless constable open the door. Of course you would.

We know all know how full on he can be when he starts yelling this guy. Yeah. And then they left. He just walked out. He walked out. Yeah. The guy was a Nazi, but he got out as well. Obviously, because he's leading.

This is my prisoner. I've got to take him over there. And then they both just legged it. That is pretty badass. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently in interviews later. in life, that was the one, like, when he sort of resurfaced and his story started being told.

That was the one he was most proud of. Because the whole reason Dappen's written this book about him was he was writing a book about prison escapes. And Carlson got to tell him to him and said, I've got to tell you my stories. I've got some great stories about prison escapes. Nice. And Dappen hadn't seen the video at the time. Oh, wow.

And then someone else said to him, another criminal who spent time in jail with Carlson said, this guy's the most interesting crime you'll ever talk to. you got to check him out. Then he watched a video and he's like, oh, real fascinating. And then one step led to another and there's all the, now it's like murderers and stuff. He's like, I was not expecting it to go here. Yeah, interesting.

Which means the book is a little, you know, feels a little uneven or something. He followed the story where the story went. Hmm. Journalist. That's what I do. Bull says Jack put on a real performance, a bit like the one outside the restaurant. He pretended to be a cop.

Dappen continues. At the morning tea adjournment of the courts, I went around to check the two accused, said the arresting officer, and they were not there. Carlson stole a Morris Minor from Manley and drove it south to Heathcote where they burgled a house. The car later ran out of petrol, so they abandoned it and walked until they stole a holden. By the weekend, police had reported that the fugitives were believed to have armed themselves with a number of stolen guns from underworld friends, which wasn't true. Carlson and Mound were described as desperate men who would stop at nothing to ensure their freedom. This was a lightly coded message that the escapees would probably be shot if they resisted arrest. Wow.

The initial plan was to hide in the bushland of the Royal National Park south of Sydney, but they found the weather to be uncomfortably cold and wet, and after a day or two, Mound decided to break from the plan and head to a friend's place in suburban Sydney to hide out. Unfortunately for Carlson, Mount's friend was a low-level criminal and heroin addict himself, and the very next day he was arrested and then to make a deal with the cops he sold out, Carlson. Oh, you dog. So I was back in custody again.

All of this is only 25. Wow. Cordon had been badly beaten at the police station. They said, go and clean up. Watch that blood off your face in the bathroom. I turned around this, Carlson. I turned around and one of the detectives was pointing a gun at me, and he fired it. I thought, Jesus Christ, he actually fired it.

But it had a blank in it. And the cops all laughed. Carlson was often battered by police. You had to expect it, he said, especially when you tell them to go and get fucked, you dirty low dogs. I always yelled that sort of stuff at them. Yeah, yeah, okay, yep. At the ensuing trial, Carlson again represented himself. The police presented a transcript of a supposed confession by Carlson.

which he had not signed. Gordon Adapin, cops at the time would habitually fabricate such confessions that for some reason or another, the accused would refuse to sign. This was their way around the criminal world's code of silence. Apparently it was just very common. They'd go, they're not going to, they're not talking, we'll write up a confession. And then we'll have some, they go, oh, yeah, he said he wouldn't sign it in the end for some reason. And then they could use that?

Yeah. We've written whatever we want. He refused to sign it, so now we're going to take it as evidence. Because this is all on record, and Dappen was able to go through it, and he's reading judge's transcript who's just basically accepting it and telling the jury, who are you going to believe? These criminal scum or... These beautiful boys.

Yeah, my beautiful coppersy. Look how beautiful blue they are. Oh, my God, they're blue. I love their beautiful blue boys. During the trial, the prosecutor asked if he'd ever use false names, and Carlson admitted to a few, including Jack Edward Menning. Chow, his real name, Assessal George Edwards, Helmut Markson, Peter Allen Marsh, and George A. Reese. Carlson implored the judge to employ common sense and reason. The police claim I have a bad record,

he said. I'm experienced with police interrogation, that I've given false names and that I'm a liar. And they also come up and say that I willingly told the police and confessed as to all these things that I did not do, why would I confess, having had all this experience with the police? They cannot have it both ways, can they? Carlson offered to prove to the judge in 10 minutes that it was usual for CIB records of interview to be fabricated. Unfortunately for Carlson, the judge was having none of it saying, I'm not interested. I accept the police evidence. It is a sheer waste of time and I will not allow you to do it.

It is interesting. He's like, what's the point of them signing it if the signature, like the records typed up? And I just say, this is what he said. Why didn't he sign it? Oh, yeah, I don't know. Why didn't he sign it? You know what they're like. You know what they're like.

These crimmed. Yeah. Dappen continued throughout the trial he raised logistical questions to discredit the idea that their interviews could have been conducted, transcribed and read in the time claimed by the police. Carlson demanded to hear Boyd to spell the word written. He also tried to have him take a typing test, but the judge isn't not allowing any of these things. And another real seemingly obviously dodgy thing happens, Carlson asked to call another prisoner as a witness,

but somehow that witness was injured on his way to court and was unable to appear. Supposedly having injured himself. Yes. Which the judge bought this story, but clearly it was just the cops. He ran into my knife. I couldn't believe it.

Did he three times? I just quoted a musical at you. Really? Yeah. What moves? That's how it feels. Chicago. Westside charger?

Westside charger. That's not. What? Westside story. Yeah. What's more? Why did I say West Side Charger? I don't know.

Oh, nice. It was really strange. Yeah. But you were indeed quite in Chicago? Yes. You're now Googling West Side Charger just to try and justify your own little blip. Hmm. Hmm.

Okay. Yeah. It's not. It's not a thing. Not a thing. Nah. Yeah, it was weird. It was weird.

Yeah. Very. Got telling us. Yeah. Thanks for letting me know, but I was a word. Yeah. That was weird. That was a bit strange.

But yeah, apparently the cop was there. Yeah. When it happened and that was sort of entangled, but he had nothing to do with it when the witness fell back and smashed his head. Fully grown adults are prone to just out of nowhere, just whip. So that, yeah, that's unfortunate because that would have been really good for Carlson. Yes. Dabin quotes his final address to the judge saying, I do not consider myself a criminal in the normal sense of the word.

I was a criminal in the past and I possessed all the weird quirks of character that go to make up such a person. During this unfortunate phase of my life, I never committed any act which I considered evil, nor am I a wild or vicious person. Carlson insisted that his criminal phase had ended with the birth of Barbara, at Dave's auntie, which he said, had brought about my complete awakening

and my determination to stay out of trouble in the future. And he still said, like he says, he never committed another crime beyond the age of his early 20s. Carlson, others say he continued to commit crimes, but Carlson, who do you believe? Carlson was found guilty of all charges and was sentenced to eight years. Wow.

Back in prison, now at Parramatta Jail, Carlson became friends with another inmate. Meinares to know if you know this guy, Dave. Jim McNeil. Jim McNeil. So at this stage, not sure. He was in jail for armed robbery,

but he went on to be an award-winning playwright and seen as quite an important Australian writer. Oh, I do know the story of someone who whilst convicted wrote, and then some well-known writers on the outside took interest in his work. That's right. And that's Carlson's, they were best mates and cellmates. Wow. Really?

And then possibly... I'll tell you a bit about me. Oh, you're going to tell her? Yeah. So... Did he marry someone famous? He did, yes. And was very violent to her and it ended pretty quickly.

But, uh, well, so much grimness in this story. Oh, really? Um... Did you marry Robin Nevin? Yeah, Robin Nevin. That's right. Oh, yeah. Great.

Who's like been the director of the MTC and, um... It's a great Australian actress. And I've got to say that I was in a scene with the scene with the... in the library in Swift. Amazing. So let me say that. Okay. She apparently never talks about the short-lived married with marriage with McNevin.

Yeah. I'm McNeil. But anyway. Wow. Yeah. Like Carlson, McNeil had a brutal childhood filled with abuse and crime, sexual and physical abuse. Connor Dappen in 1957 and 22,

McNeil married Valerie Fields. And the couple went on to have six children. children. According to McNeil, he was in prison every time a son or daughter was born. So he was in and out and in and out. He served sentences in Bendigo Jail, Pentridge and on French Island. He had another guy who was held at Pentridge. He spent time at prison with Ronald Ryan, the last man, hanged in Australia. On Christmas Day, 1996, he of the Saints, just a couple months after the Saints on that premiership. A couple months after home. Yeah. He and Valerie met another couple. in the George Hotel in St. Kilda to plan the robbery of the Olympic Hotel in Preston. And this would be the robbery, or this series of events, would lead for him to be back in jail at Parramatta and for Carlson to meet him, which led to these plays being read.

But anyway, so on the 14th of January, 1967, McNeil and his mate, Michael Jordan, raided the pub. McNeil was arrested, but jumped bail and fled with his family, first to Queensland, then to New South Wales. At the Royal Hotel in Springwood in the Blue Mountains, he an accomplice took $130 at gunpoint from the public in. Then McNeil stole a car and robbed a service station in Richmond. He was bailed up by a police constable who drew his service pistol. McNeil took a 22 rifle from under his coat and shot the officer in the left leg. When the man begged for his life,

McNeil offered him an unsporting chance. He allowed the officer to run with a bullet in one leg while McNeil shot at him. Oh. He caught him again in the right buttock, but the constable escaped to testify at McNeil's trial. Wow. McNeil later said that it was, this was just his sense of humor,

shot a cop in the butt. It's like, how accurate are you shooting, though? Yeah, yeah, that's exactly, aiming exactly to the butt. Well, he's running away. I don't know. I only meant to get the butt and I got the butt.

I was a crack shot. So, yeah, it was serving the insuring sentence that Carlson met him. Dappen writes, in Parramatta Jail, However, McNeil wasn't a gangster-type bloke, according to Carlson. Even though he knew the gangsters and got on with them, he was too intelligent for that, Carlson said.

On the other hand, said Carlson, he did shoot a copper in the arse. Yeah, just that. You got the... Yeah. We all contain multitudes. Yeah. That's right. Two wolves.

Yeah. Only one of those wolves would shoot a copper in the ass. Yeah. Carlson told Bull about the origin of his friendship with McNeil, saying, when I got the eight years, I went down to the wind. and there was McNeil. He said, hey, wait, I've heard about you. He heard about my escape,

pretending to be a detective and all that sort of stuff. And he said, come on, you can stay in my cell with me. And we've been best mates ever since. Is that how it works? You can choose your cellmates? Yeah. I assume, yeah. Yeah, I think like there's like an orientation where you get to like,

you do like a speed dating type thing. Oh, a bit of like you buddy up a bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then you go like, yeah, okay. And you put in your preferences. Right. Yeah.

I couldn't share a bucket with this guy, but this guy I'd love to share it back with him. I'd love to watch this guy shit. Yeah, I'd love that. They, in jail, Carlson had the nickname the Hun, the Beastly Hun. It's the Big Boy. Which is interesting. What's the Hun? What's the Hun?

They're just like a... What are the Huns? What are the Huns? What are the Huns? Atilla, what's he? What's a Hun? I think my brain, like, like, like took the shortest route to an answer.

I always just kind of assumed Hungarian, but that's not right, I'm sure. No, they're like, they live out on the step. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, like, you know, like, front. Yeah, there's the Mongolian people. Yes, they're about there.

The Huns are about there. The Huns and the Mongolia. It's a very wide plain, but yeah. Atila and that other, that guy that we talked about that time. Yeah, that guy that we talked about that town. Yeah, the big Mongolian guy. Yep. Someone, someone, someone?

What? Can none of us remember this guy's name? No, no. The Mongolian guy? Yeah. Yeah. Dave, you did the report. Yeah, I remember. It was part of Block.

Jengis. There we go. Jengis, thanks. We wanted to see how long we did. Thanks, friends. Yeah, you wanted to see. Listeners know your game. You're not saying anything, Dave.

That's what happened. I'll give you the answer to you, sir. Bull rights, so this is about McNeil and the Hun, as in McNeil and Carlson. Bull writes, the two men bonded over making foul-tasting alcohol in the cell's wash basin and also their shared histories. They had both grown up poor, even by the standards of their rough and tumble neighborhoods. Adults had abused them physically and sexually, and they'd both stolen and scammed a few shillings

for their families when they saw the chance. Carlson was known as a bit of a prison brewmaster, secretly making home brew in his cell, telling Bull, Jim and I, we used to make a brew. We'd get some raisins and stuff from the cookhouse and some yeast from the bakehouse, and some and make a quick two-day brew. There's a record- Two-day brew, that can't be good. No, bad.

Well, he says he was pretty rank. And he's like, sometimes it didn't really work and he'd just have chronic cramps after drinking up. But anyway, there's a recording of Jim McNeil talking about in an interview where he says, every night when he went to bed, he'd put the yeast and sugar in and the jam and the plug in the sink. I hope he did the plug first. And then he'd just turn the tap on and put the water in,

and go to sleep. And in the morning, this terrific brew would have fermented, and we'd both put our head in it, like two horses in a trough. Lovely. That's beautiful. And the doors had opened before breakfast right in the early morning, all out in the yard, and we'd both be blind as bats. That was the marvellous hun.

Wow. And they used to keep falling on the hun, raiding him. And if they did, he'd pull out the plug. And all the evidence had run down the drain. The perfect crime. And it seems like this whole setup was at least in part the inspiration for McNeil's classic Australian play, the old familiar juice. Now, depending on who you ask, Carlson was very involved in the writing of this or at the very least he was there and the two. Really?

He claims, like when you say it. He doesn't claim it. Others claim it. But he did end up playing the main role in the initial versions of the play. He does seem like an actor in the video. In the video we all know and love. Bull rights, they put it on in prison and Carlson played a leading role. In jail, McNeil and Carlson were key members of the resurgence debating society.

A small group of prisoners who, as well as holding debates with uni students, would meet, write and paint. This is someone I don't really talk about, but he did a lot of painting in prison. Like prison guards would make deals with him, ask him to paint, you know, a presence for their partners in return for leniency or different benefits around the jail. Carlson told Bull, university debating teams would come out and we'd flog them. I'd say to the organizer, put a topic up there. Adolf Hitler's not a bad bloke, that sort of thing. And he's made the air Nazis. He's coming and be like, I've got a few things to say about this.

He wasn't actually that short. And he's telling the story he's like, and you'd have these university students arguing and saying, well, he killed like six million people and he'd done this and that. And then I'd go up there and say, well, wait on. moment, that's all. Bull asked, why did you want to do that? And Carlson replied, just to stare him up, just to stare him up. A bit weird, but... Yep. He's bored. It sounds like his argument was, uh, wait a minute. Yep. Just wait a minute. You better believe it. I, I rest my case. The uni students were so shit scared that they were in the prison with the prisoners.

They were like, you win? Apparently they did win a lot. David Marr, you know, the journalist was one of the uni students who debated them sometimes. Yeah, in Dappen's book, you don't see it written anywhere else, but in Dappen's book, there's a few of these weird Hitler references. Like when Dappen asked him about his parents, he didn't want to talk about, he said, I'll tell you their names, Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun. Shit. Which I think he was saying they were not very nice to him.

Yeah, no, yeah. His dad was Adolf Hitler. How did you get to Australia? Dave's very literal. So yeah, like Dave suggested before, McNeil became a hit amongst the Australian art scene. This is for the age in 2012. Raymond Gill wrote,

It was McNeil's status as an uneducated, violent criminal, with a talent for vividly capturing male behaviour, the Aussie vernacular, and dramatic structure in his first prison play, The Chocolate Frog, which I think was rhyming slag for dirty dog or something like, prison guards, written in Parramatta Jail in 1970 that led to his discovery by a young

theatre set who championed his early release from prison. They included the director's Malcolm Robertson and Carrillo Gantzner, who apparently he was one of the driving forces or the main driving force for the setup of the Maltouse Theatre in Melbourne. Actor Graham Blundell and playwright David Williamson, who described McNeil as a one-in-a-million in born writer. David Williamson's like one of Australia's. Really famous, yeah. Most famous. Still going. In a letter of support for his early parole, Williamson wrote, quote, not only is he a playwright of extraordinary talent. He is a man who has a first-class mind, which is obviously focused and matured during his years of incarceration to make him a

considerable human being. Interestingly, the article briefly mentions Carlson, not by name, but as a hench, known as the Hun. Which is funny, because this is 2012. So, So he's been mentioned like in these tiny little snippets, but no one's connecting the two things. That's the famous guy from the meme. Yeah, exactly. I wonder if that, like, is that just a coincidence that his nickname was the Han and people also thought he was Hungarian chessmaster? Is that just me connecting dots and art there? Yeah.

It's probably just a small coincidence that could be explained as a coincidence. The support of the arts community helped get him out of, on parole 10 years ago. early in October of 1974. When he was released, his plays were already being put on in every state in Australia. Like he'd become a big hit. Wow. He was awarded a literary grant by the Australian Council for the Arts. And in 1975, he won the Australian Writers Guild, the Orgy Award for the most outstanding

script for his play, How Does Your Garden Grow? Which I think was a bit of an autobiographical one. Bull writes, McNeil's plays weren't subtle. They were Screeds aimed at a society that arrested and tormented. unfortunate men for petty crimes. The message is, look what you're doing to people, he told one interviewer. On radio and in the press, he would give didactic rants about the brutality of the justice system. The life on the outside was difficult for McNeil, and even more so for those close to him. He didn't handle the outside world well and now having access to proper booze.

Like, he didn't have to have it made in a sink. He was constantly drunk and violent. and this is included with his family and friends, including those artists who, they've all got anecdotes of him, like, one of the women who ended up publishing his plays, she let him stay at their family home. And apparently, one night she found him in the kitchen, threatening people with a decanter.

And she's like, well, apparently she was just very nonchalant about it, though. She's like, all right, whatever you do, Can you just not use that 200-year-old decanter? Please take this sword. Put the decanter down. Yeah. The decanter, that's important to me. Take my boy, though.

Take the boy. It means nothing. So he was very quickly an outcast because he just burnt all these bridges by trading everyone horribly. Right, but that stood up for him in a bit like someone who's so, such, so smart. He must be refined.

He's not a beast. He's an artist. Let him out. Let him free. I don't, yeah, he never, because he, you know, never wrote another play, I don't think, yeah, and he died at 47 of alcohol-related illness in 1982, living in a house for homeless men in Melbourne. So it was like, basically, he died destitute, you know, relatively young, 47. Yeah.

Yeah, just a boy. Yeah. Whole life ahead of you. Yeah. Anyway, let's go. So, yeah, just a, I hadn't heard of him all those plays. plays, but I just thought, what a, it's kind of fascinating story. And that our man was there next to him.

Yeah, well, like, sharing a cell with him. Sharing the cell, sharing the trough. And then, you know, being the first act, like, in these famous plays, which is so interesting that, why don't we all know that? I don't know. But, yeah, so much of this story is tragic. Like, just top to bottom, really. back to Carlson.

After his stint at Parramatta, he was sent back to Pentridge to do the time he owed for the Melbourne crimes. And there he met another inmate named Ray Mooney. Dappen spoke to Mooney, and this is one of the guys who suggests he was even more involved. Mooney believed that Carlson had actually co-authored the old familiar juice. He definitely did, he insisted, because Jack told me, this was before Jimmy became famous and it was all a big deal. If you read the old familiar juice, it's Jack through and through.

And I think he actually helped him in a few other things too. Jack had a genuine big hand in McNeil's writing. But all that Carlson would say to Dappen when he was asked about it was that he shared a cell with McNeil while McNeil wrote the play. He didn't take any credit for it. But it seems like he did tell this story. Dappen talks about how when he was a boy and still living with his parents,

they visited a family, friends' farm, and his cousin was a few years old and Carlson's quite young. And Carlson's cousin set up the shed so that a piece of iron would fall from the door. And he goes, Carlson, go in there, and he got knocked out on this big chunk of metal fell on him, woke up in hospital, and the doctors asked what happened,

and he told the story. and his dad got angry at him for ratting out his cousin. And he's like, so I never ratted out anyone again. Fire out. Wow, but that's obviously, that's classic prank. Yeah. Set up a big chunk of metal on the door. Oh, that's a fantastic bit.

Hey, hey, so there's a president there for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got him. Watch this, watch this. This could give him serious damage. So, like, that just makes you think I'm like, is that even to the point where you're like, I'm not going to take any credit even though I don't know.

In 1975, after spending most of his life, life in boys' homes, in jails, or on the run at the age of 33. He was released from prison after doing his time. One of the few times he actually, you know, did his full chunk and was out. Thinking back to that moment, he told Bull, that was beautiful to have that freedom again, to get parole. You had to have a job and they got me a job on the TV, doing things like pretending to be a police informer and all the things like that that I'm not. Does he mean acting? Yeah. Division four, cop shop, matlock police, homicide. These were things that were on the TV every week.

So he had bit parts in all these TV issues. We've got to get him a job. What can you be? Actor. I mean, he had been acting in these plays in prison for a few years. You've got a good look. Get in there. Yeah, I reckon you can play criminal.

Yeah, you're a big man. Yeah. So, yeah, Jim McNeil helped him get these acting gigs, mainly bit parts in TV crime dramas. And, yeah, there's a... I couldn't find any video clips, but Bull found clips and plays them on earshot. You can hear a few clips of him acting in that episode of earshot,

which is pretty cool. Bull writes on the outside, McNeil and Carlson remain close. The lovely bloke, I love him, McNeil told an interview around the same time. Carlson named his son Jim McNeil Carlson. And Carlson described him as best friends. What did he name his son? Jim McNeil Carlson.

Okay. Just gave him the first and second spots there. Yeah. Probably better than McNeil Jim. What about Neil McJim? Oh, yeah, there it is. Carl, Neil Jim McIson. Yep.

Yeah, I think we've got it actually an end there. You are very good. Thank you so much. Good note for a boy girl. Beautiful name, in fact. Carlson lost at least one of his acting jobs after being fired for drinking real booze in a pub scene and ending up quite drunk and making sure all the other actors they were told not to.

And he's like, don't be ridiculous. Don't you dare pour out that alcohol? It's quietly topping him up. Yeah. So he's like, we were having to play a bit slanted in this pub scene, but we were really. We were. And sadly, that's a bit of a through line in his life. He was an alcoholic and it really just led to problems.

you can, like self-medicating is what I assume it is in part. Yeah. Yeah, it just meant that he was, he basically never, he could never get things together. Even when he found his fame, it was, you can see in the videos as he comes out, like his teeth go, like he's got less teeth with every appearance sort of thing. And it's all a bit sad. But I won't, yeah, should probably get bogged down. This is a comedy podcast after all.

But yeah, if you want to hear, you can't hear more about. all sorts of grim stuff, dab in the book. I love his writing and I think it's good stuff. We're here to talk about the penis. Yes, and I will take us back to the video. I mean,

as tragic as a lot of his life was, everyone who were close to him loved him and just said they never saw him angry. He was always happy. You know, people loved him. So, you know, I'm maybe taking a bit of a negative spin on it because he went through so much.

Yeah. Yeah, it sounds full on, but he's only his mid-30s. Yeah, exactly. He lived an incredibly tough life. But interesting as well. Totally. So, yeah, let's go back and sort of finish at where we began with the China Sea restaurant arrest.

That's what we're all here for. Yes, we love that. We're here, a democracy. And I love it when he, like, people, he'd do it for people, basically. They're like, do the line. And there's videos of him, you know, his last few years of life doing it a bit. And he rolled the ass so good. a democracy.

So Dean Byron, who was one of the plain-closed cops, who was in the video at the time, he was a member of the Queensland Fraud Squad. And he got the reputation around his office that he was the one accused of touching Carlson on the punos, which led to him later writing a piece for the monthly, strenuously denying the allegation. He told Dappen that at the time of the arrest,

his boss started calling him hand crank Harry, saying it was his little joke. And that sort of caught on. He would always say, hey you going, hand crank. Oh my gosh. Byron's fraud squad partner, Adam Furman, found the nickname unfair telling Dappen, I'm the one he says it to. If you look at the footage, he's looking at me. I'm hand crank.

I should be hand crank. Why aren't I getting caught handcrank? He's taking my credit. I think he was saying. I was the one who touched him. I sexually harassed that man. That's right. Where's my one being in cues of.

And Q's of, also I didn't do it. I'll Australian-inously die. I should be the one I'm denying him. I deserve that nickname. I'm Hank crank. That's funny. Did you, you read it, him saying it was unfair. You read it as he said it's saying unfair to him.

I read it as him saying it was unfair to his mate. I really, I read it as unfair to him. I want that name. You're calling him, Hank crank. He wasn't anywhere in here his penis. He couldn't have, he couldn't have touched it if he wanted to. He wasn't in arms legs, rage. But I was right there if I wanted to.

If I wanted to, which I did. I could have got my hand all over that penis. But I should be the one being accuser, so I can be the one stringlessly denier. Get my article out there. Signed hand cranking. Because that's what people should have been calling me. Me. This is the block who got me on the penis before.

That's me. You pointed to the wrong man. The next chunk I'm going to read is from carnage. And it paints a different picture of the arrest. This is from the perspective of hand crank and his mate, Herman. The hand crank brothers. The real hand crank. Yeah, hand crank and the real hand crank.

Because, I mean, especially they tell the story very differently as to the official story that you'll see mostly is that they called the media. But they're like, that is not what happened. So this is from carnage. Byron told me, obviously from the point of view of Dapen, Byron told me that most things that I thought I knew about the Democracy Manifest video were untrue. On the day that Byron was called out to the China Sea, he had been in the Queensland Police for five years and the fraud squad for almost two years. He was dispatched with Furman, who remembered that an American Express investigator had followed Carlson into the restaurant in the belief that he was using a stolen card. I think that was the potential impetus for it getting to the media, said Byron, because it clearly wasn't from us.

I mentioned that Chris Reason, you know, the Walkley Award winning journalist at Seven News, thought that the fraud squad had contacted the TV station. Nah, said Byron, no chance in a million years. That's utter, utter, utter bolder dash, said Byron. It's rubbish. It's just so untrue. It's not funny. It's hard to even describe how crazy that idea is. He doth protest too much.

Yeah. We were at the office. Somebody rang and said, look, there's a problem down at the valley. We need someone down there from the fraud squad. Me and my partner with the two youngest guys is this, that's probably why we were told to go down and deal with this, because no one ever wants to go to a job in the fraud squad.

You don't see that sort of action. You're always just sitting there chasing up checks and evidence. You don't go to some big thing that's happening like you might in the armed robbery squad or something. So we got the... It's so boring. Fraud sucks. All I'm doing is looking at checks all day.

Which is it like that does feel like that doesn't support his point, this wasn't one of those boring things. So maybe this is exactly why you would call the media. You get excited. Oh my God, I'm about to actually do something exciting. A big criminal. Call the media. Mom, mum, mum, mum. Mom might see me. What's the tell you tonight? Handcracks getting on TV. Mom, call the media. Yeah, that's what it turned out. So we got the information, jumped in the car and went down there. The idea that we were planning something is just so crazy. He really did a dog with a bone. Do you do Doth protest a little. I should say the Dappen is interviewing him at a bar.

He'd bought him a beer. So he's saying all this over a beer as well. Okay. Yeah, a bit of the old liquid truth syrup. Syrup. Liquid truth syrup. I don't know. Is that near like something people say?

No. No. No. But they will in the future. Did I just coin a term? Yes. Liquid truth syrup. True serum?

Probably. And doesn't know liquid. Nah, you might have been I think you were conflating liquid luck Yeah And truth serum Yeah, yeah, yeah To make a new better thing

Liquid truth syrup Yeah, better than the sum of its parts Agreed Yeah But he said He asked Byron Oh, do you think The American Express Inspector

Maybe he'll the TV station He said, I don't know why they'd particularly want that either And he's like, And I can't imagine the restaurant guy rang him Furman said that the American Express investigator had gone into the restaurant looking for a particular suspect with a particular card and the owner had pointed at Carlson. Okay, so this is also where it goes from.

Carlson's always said it's just mistaken identity. Furman and Handcrank Harry, they're both like, nah, he was the guy we were after. And it all just fell apart, which is just entirely different from how the story is mainly known. He says, Furman guessed that the investigator wanted an acute response and had therefore called Triple Zero to tell them

he'd come upon one of Victoria's 10 most wanted. So of course, all the uniformed coppers in the area swarmed on the place and Channel 7 and Chris Reason turned up as well. But before the fraud squad detectives arrived, they'd let him go to the toilet and he'd gotten rid of the credit card. We couldn't find it, but we arrested him. His jaw dropped. He went, what?

He calmly walked out to the car, then as soon as he saw the media, that was when all hell broke loose. It was like Jacqueline Hyde, said Furman. When we got him into the car, he said, well, that was fun. We went on to the watch house with him, said Byron. Our two superintendent and inspectors in the fraud squad were there. They didn't bother coming down to the watch house when you were arresting someone unless it was some kind of big deal. This is more of him saying, we got the right guy and this is why. But remember the media the next day, reason said, oh, we got a call saying it was mistaken identity.

Yeah. Entirely different stories. Borrow news to record the details of his cases in a journal. Of Carlson, he wrote in his article in the monthly, which he referred to his journal notes, that there was not much in there. A name, Cecil George Edwards, the date, what he was ultimately charged with, 19 counts of fraud and receiving stolen goods, and the amounts involved totaling some $70,000. Oh, wow.

We had the complainants. We had the evidence. We had him cold up until we turned up for court the next day to find some dalt of a watchhouse keeper had released him on overnight bail, which he then ran from. Carlson never showed up for his court appearance. Maybe he did talk his way out of the watch house. They're not sure how he even got out. He took his way out.

Pretended he was a cop. I've been locked up and he was all these criminals. Let me out, young man. Absolutely absurd. And this story also makes me go, no, what, like he, he'd been viral for years before he came out, and he sort of said he just didn't know he was viral. But that seems kind of unlikely. But no one's ever gone. If he was like, I don't, I'm still, could be on the hook for this.

Yeah, that's right. For the same. Right. But, yeah. They sort of suggest, they don't know if he talked his way out or maybe got help from other police. Dappen says, after all, the Czech frauds had always relied on corrupt cops, so maybe he was, you know, like he's just throwing shit or he doesn't know. Meanwhile, the clean skins at the fraud squad discovered Carlson was wanted for other alleged offences. I think it was maybe counterfeiting, said Byron.

For two or three weeks afterwards, we had to down tools and focus on him. Someone from the drug squad said that they had him trying to sell some stolen property to a bloke who was an agent. We wanted to set something up there, but we weren't allowed to because it broached the ongoing drug investigation, which was considered to be a lot more important than our shitty fraud. These guys, I don't think they were real happy with their work. Really putting fraud down, isn't he? So we were stymied there, and then I got a much bigger job given to me, and that pretty much took over my life. I didn't think about it much after that, other than to keep wondering why this guy had never been caught. he ended up being a university lecturer and he at one class showed the videos.

That's me. And then under one of the videos, someone commented, hey, my lecture was one of those cops. And that's how Dapin, I think, got on to him via. Ah, interesting. Wow. Always read the comments. Yes. It's always productive.

Yeah. That's what we always say. Incredibly. and sometimes I tire of using that word in relation to Carlson, it seemed that Carlson was still technically on the run, although of course his only crime may have been to have eaten a succulent Chinese meal. From the day we arrested him and he didn't show at court,

he would have had a bench warrant out for him. That would be sitting on your head for life until you came to light and then you'd have to deal with it. He's never had to deal with it. He never would have been actually prosecuted for those offences. So they're like, he should have still been on the hook for these charges that he's denying we're even there. And most of the media reports also said it was a mistaken identity.

So it's really hard to pin down what's happened. Yeah. But yeah, very different account of the story than most versions you'll find online. Anyway, after the video went viral in the 2010s, he first resurfaced publicly on a short brown cardon video in June of 2019. Brown Cardigan? What did I say? Cardin. Oh, good.

I was just double-checking it was Brown Cardigan. In that case, for once, I wasn't mocking you. But if you'd like me to, I will. Yeah. No, no, please. It's just a really short video where some guys recognize him in a pub. Yeah, I think I remember that. And he's like, oh, you're rolling now. And he goes, yeah, what do you want to say?

And he says a couple lines, democracy manifest and don't touch me on the Pidus, that sort of thing. oh that's great and that's the video and people like holy shit like everyone was like at that point like who was they no one really knew who he was assumed he was probably dead like just didn't know yeah um should we said that brown cardigan is like an australian instagram channel yeah we should say that that's true because otherwise they'd be like what what the hell is that yeah so he just popped i remember the video too and people are people debating is that actually him and some people are like he looks a bit different now but that is definitely the voice clearly He's just doing a really good impersonation.

But yeah, I remember at the time. And then in March of 2020, sports bed, a gambling company, got him to appear in a promotional video where he says, I am Mr. Democracy Manifest, not some Hungarian chess player. And he shows him his payings and stuff. And he's like, he really was like a, I think he got to pay out for some of his abuses early in his life. And when that cash ran out, maybe that was part of the reason.

He's like, I need some cash. so he, yeah, selling paintings and doing other bits and pieces. That same day as the sports bed ad, the Aussie band, the chats released a video clip, which it was featured in for their song, Dine and Dash. This all seemed to be to help, this all seemed to be set up to help publicize the launch of the website, Mr. Democracy Manifest.com.com. We sold his official wine, get your hands off my pinot as well.

That's some t-shirts. But maybe let's give the final word on the arrest to Carlson himself. As Dappen writes, I asked him what he'd been doing in the restaurant when the police came to arrest him. Nothing, he said. They thought I was someone else. Was he really just eating a Chinese meal, I asked? Yeah, he said. I was sitting in the restaurant.

I've been there a dozen times. It was my favorite restaurant. He would not admit to using a stolen credit card. Nevertheless, he explained that he had played it up for the TV cameras in the hope that the police would think that he was. was mentally ill because he would then be sent to a hospital rather than a jail. And it would have been easier to escape from a hospital, he said. And if anyone knew that, it would be Jack Carlson. I don't know.

Sometimes you've got to have swipes to get out. Yeah, that's true. Oh, man. You're butt hanging out the back. Your butts hanging out and you're like, where are my pants? His obituary in the time says, he did pass away if you didn't know, last year. His obituary in the time says, In later years, Carlson lived off the grid with a big, energetic dog

in a run-down shell of a building off a dirt track not far from Lake Wyvenhoe in southeast Queensland. Don't know if that's how you pronounce Wivenho, but I'd like to think it is. But of course, all good things must come to an end. And Jack Carlson, criminal and internet sensation, died from systemic inflammatory response syndrome on the 7th of August, 2024, aged 82. Two months prior to his death, he went through chemo and a lot of different things. But yeah, his health really did decline over the last few years. Two months prior to his death, he was reunited with another one of the cops from the famous arrest, a guy called Stole what.

Stole what? Oh, my God. Not to do it. I didn't steal anything. I'm a cop. Stole what? Stole what? That's incredible.

I do not put that together until. It happens all the time when you're writing. Yeah, because it's spelled S-T-O-L-W-A-T-T-T. When you say it out loud, that happens all the time. I'm reading a name and I go, I didn't realize that was an incredible name. Yeah. Yeah, then you're like, all right, well, we're going to spend a bit of time on this. Yeah, no, here we go.

Yeah, stole what? Stole what? Stole what? He was there at the arrest and they reunited it a couple of months. before his death for a media spot to announce the making of a television documentary, directed by a guy called Heath Davis, about his troubled life, which I don't believe has come out yet, but it's meant to be coming out this year. And it's called The Man Who ate a Succulent Chinese meal.

They return to the Chinese sea restaurant, which unfortunately has moved locations, but apparently the business still exists. And, yeah, they reenacted the events of that day. But he was getting pretty full. frail so he wasn't able to put up quite as big of a performance. But he continued to maintain his innocence insisting to ABC News breakfast. It was a case of mistaken identity. That was his consistent line here.

Yeah. He said, Mr. What? The ex-copper. Mr. Mr. What? Sorry, Mr. Dad.

Mr. What? Yeah. Sorry, Mr. Dad. Mr. Sir, Dad. Mr. Sir. I'm frightened. So after he died, Mr. What, that cop, Mr. What, as in Stole What, paid tribute to the man he came to regard as a mate describing Mr. Carlson as larger than life with a big heart.

It's a sad day for Australia as we've just lost a true colourful character. He had a very tough upbringing and life and was a product of his environment. And finally, this is from 9 News after he died. Halson family confirmed the death, saying he was surrounded by family. In a statement, the family said, he walked a full and colourful path, and despite the troubles surrounding him, he lived by his motto to keep on laughing. Jack leaves daughter Heidi, his son Eric, his nieces, Kim, Kelly and Kerry,

and nephew Carl, grandchildren Terry Lace and Neck and many grand nieces and nephews behind. Sorry. What about Barbara? Yeah, Barbara died of cancer, unfortunately. Oh, that's so. And was what we... Jim also, Jim died, I think Jim died in a fire.

Oh, wow. Yeah, just so much tragedy. Was someone's name neck? Yeah, someone's name, N-E-C? Did you pronounce that neck or N-H? Sure, lace and neck. Terry lace. Grandchildren Terry lace, which I guess is like a Terry-tailing sole lace.

Yeah. Which I think would be beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Very soft. Terry lace, beautiful name for boy, girl. He will be sorely missed, the family said. His niece, Kim Edwards, revealed Mr. Carlson had just turned 82 last week

and had spent the last few weeks of his life in hospital. He had a few attempts to escape and pulled his cords out a couple of times and asked us many times to sneak in his pipe. As a final send-off, we gave Uncle a taste of red wine through his drip just before it was removed. The documentary director, Heath Davis, said the doco team are heartbroken with the news of his death, calling him an icon. Jack lived a life unlike any other.

In fact, he's such a larger-than-life figure who survived such adversity. It's hard to believe he's left us. Jack's inherent ability to always see the bright side of life, despite the insurmountable hardship, is something I'll carry forward with me in my own life. There really is only one Jack Carlson, and he truly was Australia's last larrican. So that is my report on Mr. Democracy Manifest.

Wow. And now we know the story. Yeah. And I mean, like I say, there's a lot more to it. Skipped over most of the grimish stuff. But, I mean, there's still a lot of grim stuff in there. Yeah, that's saying something. Yeah, totally. What a life. Pretty full-on life.

Mm. Yeah. But, yeah, the full title of Dappen's book gives you a bit more of an idea of what it's about. called Carnage, A Succulent Chinese Meal, Mr. Rent-Kill, and the Australian Manson murders. Okay. Yeah. So I think, and a lot of the reviews of people go on, you know, the cover, we thought it was going to be, when the cover features are still from that famous video. And you think it's going to be maybe a bit lighter than it ends up thing. Yeah, like a sort of fun rump through Australia's underworld.

Here you go, oh, which is what I thought it was going to be more like. you know, it's actually full on. Prison escapes and these sort of fun things. But yeah. Wow. But yeah, what, anyway, fascinating and... That sounds like it's still debated as to why the cameras were there, but... Yeah.

We're thankful. Oh, my God. Oh, 100%. And what a legacy to leave. It must have been so surprising to him that it's 991. It's being filmed. And then 20 years later, it's on the internet. People are probably telling him his kids and grandkids probably like,

holy shit, is this you? Yeah. You'd be like, oh yeah, that was a funny thing, like in the life that he led. Yeah, you did so much. You'd forget about that. Oh, yeah, I guess I did that. And it just changes your life two decades later. It's such a wild turn of events.

Yeah, like there's, and I'll post some photos during the weeks, photos that I never saw that were featured in Dappen's book of Carlson on stage earlier in his life. And it's, yeah, I just don't understand why haven't we seen more of it. Yeah, yeah. And also, we should say. The fact that he's on TV, why aren't they? Sure, if there are clips. Yeah, get that.

Archival footage. But we should say if you somehow have never seen the video, if you're overseas, perhaps, or who knows, you've somehow never come across it, do yourself a favour, go to YouTube. I'm sure you'll probably link to it in the show notes as well, the original, but type in Democracy Manifest or Succulent Chinese Meal. I wonder what? You will enjoy.

It's one of the greats. You assured me that I could. I showed you nothing. You haven't been short of anything. You haven't been short of anything. It's so funny. You get in the car. Yes, this little man.

Please. Wow, good stuff, Maddie. What a story. So good to learn more about the man behind the video. Yeah. I'm glad you were here for it, Bopper. Yeah. Thanks for saving it for me.

I don't know what the Suburity Memoir Book Club would have made of it. Yes, and I would have been a bit salty to have missed that one. Yeah. Whereas missing hapchep soot, whatever. Whatever. I'm kidding, I've listened to that episode. It's great. And you're spot on, Jess.

It was a great story and well told. Well, that brings us to everyone's favourite section of the show. And when I say everyone, I mean everyone. Everyone. That includes Jess, Dave, and I. Hello. I'm still here. Dave, do you want to explain what happens here?

what we do here is we take a little bit of time to sort of shout out some of the people that support the show on patreon.com slash do go on pod but also get them to contribute to the show by suggesting some things giving some facts and quotes of questions we'll get to in a second but there's also a bunch of other reasons you would want to sign up to the patreon like we have four bonus episodes a month nearly every Sunday we'll put out a bonus episode including a Dungeons and Dragons We're about to start the new campaign this month. Yeah. I mean, last season finished in June.

New one's kicking off straight away this month in July, which is we've already recorded. It was so much fun. And we also put out bonus episodes, mini reports. I say mini. They're basically full-length reports just without this section on the end of it. You can also get ad-free listening so you don't get any of the ads. You hear about live shows before anyone else get discount tickets.

Be part of the Facebook group where it's a lovely corner of the internet. But first of all, we have the fact, quote, or question, Matt, where people submit a fact, a quote, or a question or something like that. And I think it often has a jingle that sounds a little something. I like this. Fact quote or question. Bong. Hang on that. It wasn't wrong, was it?

That kind of works like, because it could be like, he always remembers the bong. She always remembers the song. That's actually great. And especially if you're doing it in the style of sucking the Chinese meal, man, that's perfect. Bong. Bong. But you just assured me that I could bong! He's got a great.

vibrato on the bone. It's beautiful, isn't it? You assured me I could bog on. Yeah, so the way this works is, if you're on the Sydney-Sharmberg level or above, you have to give us a fact a quote or a question or a bragger or suggestion, or really whatever you like, and I'll read them out, but I read them out for the first time on the show.

That is just to excuse me for the fact that I might stumble, I might fumble, and also they might have written something crook, but I won't know until the words are out of my mouth. That's actually true. The first one comes, and if it's left in age, Jay, the editor. He made that choice. Yeah, it's taken full legal responsibility.

Correct. So the first one comes from Chloe Morris. You also get to give yourself a title. And Chloe's title is, I'm not a pheasant plucker. I'm a pheasant plucker's son. And Chloe's offering a brag. Well done there. Writing, hey, mate, it's Chloe here.

Longtime listener, medium time Patreon, and first time fat quota question. Oh, welcome, Chloe. How exciting. And I'm here with a brag. Thank you, brackets. Sorry, in advance, it's long. I'm a midwife, and I've been qualified just over a year. Woo!

When I qualified, I signed up to Patreon as a way to celebrate for myself and to say thank you to you guys for the pod. But I'm only just finding the right time now to submit this. Though, I've now just progressed at work to being a fully fledged rather than newly qualified midwife, so it seemed like a good time to be. to get my butt in gear and finally submit this brag to you guys about qualifying, but also as a thanks so much for all that you do.

I started listening to the pod a couple of months before lockdown. This was excellent timing as I had the whole back catalogue to keep me entertained. Ah, nice. However, it also meant you guys quickly became my firm favourite and from then on, I have had the pod with me on the journey they call life, navigating challenges and successes alike. In short, I just want to say thank you so much for Do Go On.

Really appreciate the effort you guys put in and all the behind-the-scenes stuff to create the wonderful end product. Keep going! And being your amazing selves. Lots of love, Chloe. P.S. Shout out to my friend Esther,

who introduced me to the pod, and my boyfriend, Ben, who I have also indoctrinated to the Do Go On cult. And who is my other stalwart second only to the pod? Whoa. Nice, it's us and Ben. Congrats, Ben. That's very nice.

I mean, yeah, that's a little bit of a brag, but mostly, you just spent most of the time being nice to us. Yeah. No, no. A compliment masquerading as a brag. Oh, bragging. You should be very proud of yourself. That's very cool.

Being a midwife is a really great job. Yeah, midwives do a fantastic work. Experience them in my babies. Don't make this about you, Dave. Let's not make this about you, mate. Okay. Chloe, fantastic midwife. I kind of say Ben sounds fantastic.

And Chloe say hi to your pheasant plucker dad. Yeah. Thank you so much to Chloe. And the second final one this week comes from CJ Tour, aka that jackbox slash improv guy. You would have remembered me telling you about him. Yeah. Seeing his show in Chicago.

Mm-hmm. The drunk drunken hitchcock, aka hitchcock. Uh, anyway, CJ has a question writing. First, I'm catching up with a pod as a father myself and I want to congratulate Matt and Jess because I'm very proud of them. As a dad, it means more coming from me. That's true. I, CJ, um, it's so true. Dave's compliments, uh, in the last year have really started to mean something.

Yeah, because before I was like, shut up. You're just wasting words. Yeah, and now I'm like, hang on a second. Feels good for me too. I love being listened to. Sometimes. So here is the question for us. What type of dad are we?

Spiritual, I mean. A sports dad, a barbecue dad, a nap dad, a daddy. Happy to be getting back into the pod. Cheers. Well, I like the sound of nap dad. Can I be a nap dad on the couch? Yeah, absolutely. Is it your dad you talk about will fall.

but family things on the armchair? Oh, yeah. I mean, not, yeah, yeah, all the time. That was before he was diagnosed with sleep apnea. Right. He was just tired all the time. Right, yeah, yeah. Oh, he still falls asleep everywhere.

Man, it's very impressive. The man can sleep. That's like, yeah, like an old pop with a blanket over my legs. Yeah. And there's like chaos going around. But I'm notting off under like an old knitted blanket. Yeah, that's good. Nap dad.

Nap dad. I think I'd be the kind of dad where people would say really patronising things to me in cafes Like, oh, are you babysitting or like stuff like that? That's my dream. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you look at... I'd be a bare minimum dad.

You look uncomfortable doing it. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. You definitely don't know birthdays and barely middle names. Absolutely. I saw a dad at a shopping centre the other day. Three little girls and a baby. that mum was breastfeeding, and he was sitting at the table of the food court on his phone, not engaging once.

He was probably looking up for some tips, some fun games to play. Potentially, it was his first break because he'd been doing all the work up until that point, and he's finally got a minute to himself. Yeah. And yeah, here comes judgmental Jess. No, I'm saying, I'm aspirational. I'm saying that's the kind of dad I want to be. I'm praising him.

Oh, like you should. He's living the dream. It's a fat boy slim reference. Dave, what about you? I think I'm already that dad that just described. Deadbeat, dad. No, I'm more disinterested dad. No, maybe overly interested dad.

Oh, yeah. Too much. Give us a bit of space, dad. Yeah, whoa, whoa, well, dad. I think I can put the doll's jacket on, okay? I'm good. I got this. I got this.

As in, you're just not letting him do it. You might hurt yourself. Let me do it. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that jacket doesn't go with her skirt. Yeah, what are we thinking? Let's think about the palette. Yeah, purple and, and blue. Does Daddy need to get the color wheel out again?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's start with the outside of the puzzle. You know what? Let me do it. You hold back, you hold back. I think I'd be a one of the dads, one of those dads who cries at everything. Really sentimental dad. Yeah, yeah. Best dads.

I become a big fan of those dads. Yeah, it burst into tears. I remember seeing my dad cry once, and it felt weird. Yeah. It was at a funeral. You walk up to him and say, I'm like, what's happening? You walk up and said, stop that. What the fuck, Dad?

Yeah, nah. Cringe, Dad. I think cry, early cry frequently. Yeah. Make you crying just something that your kids are like, no, here he goes again. Just started saying, like, we just never would say I love you, even though clearly we love each other. Yeah. But just started saying to an immediate family now that we're all well and truly adults.

And it is, we're working through it. Sort of like, what do you call that? Where you're... Yeah. Immersion. Immersion therapy. Yeah. You're emerging stuff in love.

Yeah. And it was awkward at first, but now, you know... My brother and I... One and done. His wedding day, I said, I love you. He said love you too. Then we laughed and I... And that was it.

That's great. I think that was nice. Was that a love at the last lifetime? Yeah. He didn't say to your wedding. No. I said it to him and he didn't respond. Oh.

He walked away. I kissed him on his head. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Did you hear what I said? I grabbed him by his head and... He kissed him on his head. I thought we're at that stage. I just read the situation.

The bride's brother. You could kiss him on the head. We thought it was disrespectful. It's disrespectful. You must kiss the bride's brother. Yeah, and a real patronizing way, even though he's slightly older than me. Hey, oh. Hey, hey.

He is months older. It's time for the kissy. Slightly older. Look at him clutching. Wait, what do you? What would you call? Four months. Slightly older than Dave.

Same age, I'd call that. Okay. Yeah, we came out at the same time. Then again, I am slightly older than Dave. Slightly. Um, what are we talking about? Oh, yes. What kind of dads we'd be?

But CJ, you forgot to do your own. Yeah. Well, CJ's a proud dad. Proud dad. That's nice. Dad is a proud boy. Not proud boy. Not yet a proud dad

All right Thank you so much to C.J. Chloe. Next thing we do, shout out to a few of our other great supporters. Jess, you normally come up with a bit of a game based on the title of the episode.

Obviously, Jack was, I was going to say diagnosed, arrested at a Chinese restaurant. Yeah. Where were these people arrested? Oh, good one. Yes. And what is the charge? Should I look up location generator?

Or do you think we could just think of places ourselves? Location generator sounds good. But then we come up with the charge. Yes. Unless there's a charge generator. Location generator. All right. Dave, do you want to do the charge?

But he answered his own charge. What is the charge enjoying a meal? So I'll say the name. Jess does the place and then you say, what is the charge enjoying it? And you riff off what? Okay. The place. Do you reckon you're up to that?

Yep. Because I know I've done two levels of improv classes about 10 years ago. Yeah. mate that's paid for itself yeah i know that's what i'm saying i could do it easy but what i need to tell you is that this year at the comedy festival sammy p and i did our show at the improv conspiracy which is where i did my class and there was an improv show after us every night and i think that the match sort of rubbed off on us just being in the room yeah that's all it takes osmosis he's only the improv the impris didn't rub off on you do they is that what you mean dave

dave do you need to talk about something davy we should do this off my I had a fantastic experience of that venue It was really well run It's great So please You're doing the location and the name Yes I'll do location and the name Jess is going to do the place

That the arrest is happening And you're So what's the location then? Oh sorry I'm saying location Where they're from Just because you sometimes We split that up But yeah

Gotcha gotcha gotcha Yes And you're doing criminal charges Is that what's the charge In enjoying or whatever Yes Okay got it All right here we go

First up from Cady or Carrie in North Carolina where Michael Jackson wore shorts under shorts No, Michael Jackson Where Michael Jordan

I mean Michael Jackson might want shorts under shorts in North Carolina We don't know for short We don't know for short From Caddy In North Carolina Thank you, Shay

Shee Arrested at Baseball Park Maybe stadium What's the charge Stealing a foul ball A beautiful foul ball Is that where you

imagining? Man, honestly, my imagination wouldn't have been that good. No, yeah. That is special. How has he done that? I don't know. I told you. He took baseball park and he found foul ball and that. He actually transformed. That was really great. Here's what you forget. While you've done two levels of improv, which again, paid for itself. It shows every day, 100% a great investment. Dave did a drama a degree. So he can also channel... I would argue that I spent many tens of thousands of dollars more than you one might. Yes.

And I think we can agree that sometimes Dave goes into a character on this show and we lose Dave. And I think a little bit of that just happened. It was magic. It was beautiful to watch. Thank you for sharing that with us. Thank you for being vulnerable and using the space. Next up. And thank you, Shea.

Thank you, Shay. Hopefully you're enjoying that foul ball. Next up, I'd love to thank from Berkeley, California. Or not, J.D. Arrested in a candy store. What's the charge? Eating a red licorice strap? A sugary sweet red licorice strap?

My God. He's incredible. He's actually incredible. I'm like, I thought, the baseball, how's he going to top it? I know. And he has done that. Sugary red strap. Red strap.

Let's keep it. Let's keep the guy. He's incredible. Next up from Address Unknown. Can only shoot him from deep within the fortress of the mold. Please, mold. You don't want to be the fortress. The Porges of the Mole.

That's an awful place to be. I didn't think Portures of the Moles was good, but mold is worse. Oh, my God. Just calling someone for that. Please, and thank you. Aiden. So-name starts with R, but hasn't written that in the thing, so. Aidan has been arrested at the movie theatre.

At the movie theatre. What's the charge? Steering. A Star Wars themed novelty soft drink cup? A succulent. No, I should say, so could I should say. A grossly overpriced Star Wars themed novelty soft drink cup

I like it Because this one is a, that is a crime Stealing Yeah, yeah, yeah You said what's the crime stealing Yeah, that is the yes Yeah, correct Aiden was with a Y as well

That helps make you understand who you are Moleman Next up from Chicago Ah, the Windy City, Illinois Please and thank you, Katie Carney. Katie, this is very appropriate for Chicago arrested in the desert. Oh, my God. What's the charge?

Eating some sand? Some nitty gritty, very dry sand. Listeners, it's the end of our day and we're losing our minds. This could be the end of our day. Yeah, that was good. That was good. That was good. Still topping it once after the other.

From Columbus, Ohio, God's country itself. Please and thank you. Page Cardioli. Arrested in the lunchroom. The lunchroom. You know what? Giving him heaps to work with, but... The generator isn't giving him heaps to work with. What's the charge?

Eating a second... Stealing a second bonus slice of salami. A dried out disgusting slice of salami. You've got a specific lunchroom in your mind, I'm guessing there. I'll think you're really shitty cafeteria where you've gone. Fuck it. I'm getting an extra... Gotcha.

From Canberra in the Australian Capital Territory, please and thank you. Alan Cashin and Brianna Gordon. Both arrested in a barn. In a barn? What's the charge? Stealing a cow? A beautiful big cow! Stop saying stealing.

I think the problem is you keep admitting to the crime. The cops are like, yes, that's it. You can say riding a cow or something. Loving a cow. Loving a cow. Enjoying the size of a cow. What's the child? Mielking a cow.

Yeah, that's good. A delicious big beepy cow. I mean, if you're on someone's property, milk in their cow, then I think that probably is a crime. But, yeah. Cress passing. Murdering a woman?

Stop admitting to the crime. From Bournemouth in. Maybe door chest. Dorchester. Dorchester. In Great Britain, it's Leah Hutton. It's in a coffee shop. The coffee shop?

What's the charge? Eating a latte? Using a spoon to eat a latte. Just spooning it in. It's really slow and it's gotten very cold. From Leeds, Leeds, Leeds in Leeds, Great Britain, please and thank you. Janice Lung. Janice was arrested at the unemployment office.

What's the charge? Eating one of those tiny little pencils? Those little pencils you fill out forms with? Why did you eat a pencil? Got hungry in the queue. You're there a long time. That's fair. That's fair.

I didn't bring fucking lunch. From Lawrence in maybe Kansas in the United States. It's Aaron Gillespie. Arrested on a college campus. On a college campus. What's the charge? He's got a stealing chicken. Eating a letterman jacket.

The quarterback's letterman jacket. He's really stuck on eating. He's a moth. Well, you didn't like when I went to stealing something. Well, no, but it could be anything else. This guy was eating because he was at a restaurant. This could just be anything you're doing on a colony. campus.

Okay, fine. Playing frisbee. Dreaming big. Getting an education. Teaching a class. You can be doing all of those things. No, I like eating a Letterman jacket. He's a moth.

We get it. That's right. From address I know, currently shum, deep within the fortress of the moles, please and thank you to Haley A. Haley A arrested on a yacht. On a yacht.

Eating a boss? Watch the chart Eating a sangria A delicious bottomless jug of sangria Two eating drink ones Fantastic Where does he get his own dish Very good

I could think the word I should have said I guess it up Eating saviche A delicious uncooked Cup of saviche A sufiche Dave We were joking a few times in there

Throwing things out you But you would nail that That was incredible. It's beautiful to watch you work. And I've just realized I've somehow I've accidentally done, I think I've given 10 names. So you did one more than, oh my gosh. So for the listener at home, going, this feels like it's going longer than this. Well, it really felt like it took a long time for me too.

I think maybe Haley A has been thanked in a previous episode. But anyway, thanks again, Haley. Hey, enjoy your sangria and your savi-o-o. And that means we've only got one last thing to do, and that is to welcome some people into the Tripitch Club. We've got three inductees this. week. Dave, do you want to explain while you're on a creative role, do you want to explain what's going on in here?

These people have been on the shoutout level or above for three consecutive years, so they've already had a shoutout like the one we just gave then, but we want to enthrine them forever. We want to welcome them into our Hall of Fame, our Clubhouse, this is a real theatre of the monster. Do you say, whole of Fame? Our Hall of Fame. Yeah, well, once you're in, you can't get out. But people love our Hall of Fame.

I haven't, I haven't, I've had no complaints about the Whole of Fame. I haven't had any complaints about my whole. No. People say, get me in the hole. And I say, all right, if you're three consecutive years, you're in. Come on in. So what we do is we lift the velvet rope, you jump into the hole. And inside, there's food, there's drink, there's fun things.

Yes. There's sometimes film festivals. It's fun to be had in the hole. Yes. And there's music. There's bands. Somebody in the Patreon group was talking about how there's air hockey and ice hockey available and how there should be fire hockey.

Oh. And I said, that sounds great. But yes, but I can only assume the fire will be too hot. Oh, no. Great. Damn. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, like, field hockey is like earth hockey. That's earth hockey. So we do, and these are all on tables. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. Good point. Yeah.

Whoever said that, fire hockey. I think that's going to be big. I think that's next. It's going to be real big. But we are still completing some renaos. So, yeah, fire hockey. We'll see if we can upgrade the arcade. And Jess, did you suggest a drink or is that, is there, fire hockey's

in, probably taking a major. Most of your time this week. It's the name of a cocktail. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just set most drinks on fire. Great. It can be anything you want, but I am going to settle on fire.

What would your succulent Chinese cocktail be? Well, I've got Chinese food. Oh, great. I've ordered in, though. So we've got a bit of, you know, sweet and sour. We've got some egg rolls. We've got some fried rice. We've got some Kungpao chicken.

You know. Yeah. We've got the works. It's going to be pretty good. I'm pumped. And Dave, have you booked a man? Yeah, never going to believe it. You'll never believe it.

You mentioned them earlier. I couldn't believe it. I've been speaking to their manager for a long time, long time, because they're often out on the road. They do a lot of shows these guys, but the chats are here. Whoa. Fantastic. They have promised to play their song, Dine and Dash, at least twice.

Maybe Smokko? You're like Smokoe and also Pub Feed. Oh, yeah, great. All I want, all I need. Yep. Yeah, so. Good pub feed. Look forward to that.

Yeah, they're just, uh, They're about to head out the road to to Europe, but we got them just in time. It's a Walmart show, but like obviously, it's intimate, so it's fine. I love it. The Walmart show is the best. They're loose, they're having fun. They're figuring it out.

Big fan. All right. And I'm just having a look. We are still doing renovations on our triple triptitch club, which our first guest is still scheduled to be Adam Stoltz in November. Why? Because you know you're the first one in Adam. Are you still standing waiting in line or you're still just enjoying the facilities knowing you're going to be called upon?

What do you reckon? Yeah, I reckon chill out. You don't have to hover. You don't have to hover. Yeah. Because it's also getting in the way of the tradies. They're finding it weird. They've made a couple of comments of like, could you get that guy to stop just hovering at the fence?

Big time. Yeah. Just relax. We'll let you know when it's ready. They don't work faster when they're being watched. No, no. No one likes that. People rarely do.

So, are we ready? to read out some names. Yep. All right. Here we go. Three inductees this week. If you hear your name, I'll lift up the velvet rope.

You run on in. Dave's on the stage. He's hyping up the thousand odd people. That's right, but you've got to jump into the hole when you hear your name. Of course. And, yeah, he'll hop you up with a bit of,

a bit of softish wordplay, punnery and whatnot. And Jess will then hop up Dave because, you know, he's in this theater of the mind somehow. He's playing a guy with low confidence, which is really against type. And again, shows what a great actor he is. So three names.

Are you ready, Dave? I'm so ready. Please and thank you. And welcome in to the Triptage Club from Ottawa in the United States in Illinois. I think it's Nate B. Nate B, he's my matey. Woo! We are pirates.

Nate be welcome here or something like that. But if you want to have another year, but you don't have to. His was perfect. He's my matey. That's pretty good stuff. I thought Ryan was a part of my favourite. Yeah. Mady.

Yarr. Shut up. Oh, I didn't get it. Well, yeah. That's actually really clever. Sorry, Dave, I didn't get it. That's great. That's incredibly apparent you didn't get it.

It's too high brow a joke for you. Sorry about him, Dave. I'm so sorry about me, Dave. Next up from Address Unknownly Shoon from deep within the fortress of the malls, please. And thank you and welcome Jason Armitage. I wish you knew Harmitage. Jason Armitage. Oh, that's good stuff.

Thanks you very much. much. I'm at his shanks. I'm going to have shanks. Yeah, that was my first thought and I thought, that's rubbish. Why do you keep ruining the flow? I'm funny from Dundee in, I believe in Scotland, maybe home of the Stuart's Dundee Decanter Scotch.

Please and thank you and welcome. Robbie Proctor. Smarter than a doctor. He's Robbie Proctor. What do you got for that smart ass? I was thinking something about Goody Proctor or something, but I think Doctor's really good. Yeah, Goody Proctor is good. I would have said something like, he's a real goody.

Robbie's a real goody, Proctor. Thank you and welcome in Robbie, Jason and Nate. There's a reason why I've never been asked to do it. You know, I try to put my hand up. I say, look, here if you need. Yeah, because you're a real flow killer. Yeah. It's true.

It's so true. That's my flow rider cover a tribute act name. No one brings to an episode. That is a house and a time before we go, Jess, Bob Perkins. Just that we love them And if you want to suggest a topic There's a link in the show notes Or you can go to our website

Which is do go on pod.com Where you can also find information About live shows we have coming up And the other podcasts that we do And you can find us on social media Do Go on Pod or do go on podcast on TikTok Like and subscribe We love you

Boot this baby home Dave Until next week Thank you so much for listening And until then it's goodbye Later's Watch Is the charge eating a meal, succulent Chinese meal. Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest.

That was beautiful. Have a look at the headlock here. See that chap over here? He gets your hands on my penis. This is the bloke who got me in the penis before. Hop in the car. Why did you do this to me? Hop in the car.

For what reason? What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent. That is Bill? Just his, yeah, man, it's very good stuff. Everything about it is so fucking good. Yeah, 10 out of 10.

Yeah. God, I love it. I love it so much. And the whole story, I was worried at times. I'm like, am I going to ruin people's enjoyment of this story with all the sadness surrounding it? No, because I just watched it and still good. Still really good.

Still got it. Still got it. Don't forget to sign up to our tour. mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there wherever we go we always hear six months later oh you should come to manchester we were just in manchester but this way you'll never will never miss out and don't forget to sign up go to our instagram click our link tree very very easy it means we know to come to you and you also know that we're coming to you yeah you will come to you you come to us very good and we give you a

spam free guarantee