Do Go On - 64 - The Zodiac Killer

Episode Date: January 11, 2017

Ooooo it's time for another KILLER episode! This week we explore one of the most frequently suggested topics and one of the most notorious killers in murder history! Suggestion : don't listen to this at night / alone / in the dark. Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPod  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serengy Amarna 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. And welcome to another episode of Do Go On. Jess is trying to mime along with who I tried to throw away, make that sound like a different introduction to normal. They're still doing it.

They're looking at me. They're miming along with every single word. Hello, my name is Dave. James Warneke. That's right. And welcome. You're just repeating me a millisecond after I've said it. Are the people repeating?

Me, Emily seconds, I'll be a pro set out. It is... Oh no, is... Jess Perkins! Hello Jess, Jess. Hello, Dave. And we are talking to... That's right, he's... A guest on the show today. It's Matt Stewart.

Oh, thanks for having me. As a guest. Welcome, guest. Jeez, Louise. Our the mighty of fall. Are you the mighty? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Good for you. I fell over. When did you get mighty?

Um... Oh, jeez. I've done a lot of... It was in the last week, Jess. Yes, I bet. Does it sound like we are dying of heat exhaustion? Oh my God, it's so hot in here. Because I made the executive decision,

so I will take all blame that we needed to turn our fan off so it didn't annoy you listeners at home in your headphones or car speakers or whatever. You could hear a fan going in the background, and it's been about one minute since the fan went off. You won't be annoyed by the fan, but you might be annoyed by our whining. It's so hot. Good example there, Jess. Thank you.

How hot you reckon it is in here? A 112 degrees Celsius. Oh my God. We are roasting. We're dead. You wouldn't roast at 112 though. Maybe a slow cook. Yeah.

Oh, yuck. That's worse. It's doing your own juice. This podcast is a horrible way to die. That's right. We've always said that, though. But no, it's fine. It's worth it.

It's pretty hot, though. It'd be mid-30s in here. Would you guys be cool if I took my shirt and pants off? Absolutely not. You wouldn't be cool. Well, I think Matt would be cool, but I wouldn't be... I don't think you'd be that much cooler, would you? Try it.

No, I've taken my shirt off many times. I mean, don't mean to brag, but I have. And often, it's a lot cooler. Really? That tiny bit of fabric's going to make you that much hotter. It's weird, isn't it? How one piece of fabric can really... All I'm wearing is one piece of fabric today.

Stopping your skin breathing, right? And I'm hot. Yeah, maybe. That's a, you mean, that's a lovely, flowy dress. Thank you. Whereas... It's also like it. gross clingy t-shirts. But you're at least in cotton,

I just realized this isn't cotton, it's not going to breathe very nice, so I mean that isn't, it's a knit, it's a woolen knit. It's a woolen knit dress I'm wearing. Long sleeve. With an inbuilt scarf and beanie. And pants. Why are you wearing the beanie?

It looks great. It does. It's fashion. You wouldn't understand. I don't understand. Fashion. I don't understand. Say it.

Fashion. Fashion. Fashion. Fashion. I think you understand now. I think you get it. It's starting to get it. Yeah.

And yeah, it looks good. Thank you. Now, Matt, can you hear us over there in your ear holes? Because I believe you have had an incident that you tweeted about. The other day, I was walking. I was in a country town in Victoria called Bright. I was walking down Australia. I was walking to go higher a bike, right?

And out of the corner of my eye, I saw this bug sort of buzz past. And then I felt to land on my ear and then when in my ear, ear and then I went to like, you know, see if it was there and it wasn't there. I'm like, oh, that's weird. That felt like it went in my ear, but obviously it didn't go in my ear. I kept walking and I just feel and hear flapping, like sort of muted flapping. Oh, gross. Like that. For that. Inside me. So no one else could hear it. Like people like, can you hear and no one could see it? It'd gone deep in. Whoa. And it went in quickly too.

I went in quite quickly, yeah. I knew what it was doing. Yeah, that's why I'm kind of worried that maybe it's laid eggs. Did you Google that if that's the thing? I'd Googled it and the stories were pretty full on. And I, to be honest, I didn't put my mind at ease. Well, just within a few days after that, you've kind of come down with a fluy type thing. Basically the next day.

Or that evening I started feeling a bit weird. So I went to the doctors and they were closing. It was country doctors. It was New Year's Eve. and they were about to close. They sent me to the hospital, which felt like, and I was like,

oh, this is embarrassing girl. Quick call an ambulance. A bug is dying. It needs attention. You went to the vet. They went to the vet. That's right. They got it out.

Got a CPR. Yeah. And you have only been charged with attempted murder rather than murder, which is a much bigger crime. I know. I had a really good bug lawyer. Bugsy.

A bloyer. Look, okay. And he, um, hey, the bug. No, the doctors, so at the hospital. Did you have to wait a long time on your years? Yeah, not too long. There was a little girl who was sick, and she was, so she was seen too. So you pushed her out the way.

Shut up, Kelly. Yeah, I'm like, look, I think she's fine. Yeah. How many bugs do you have in your ear? Zero, fuck off. Next. That's me. And then, so, yeah, once she was dealt with, they took me in a room.

and started prodding around in there. What with? Yuck. With an ear looking thing, you know, the thing they, like, and the nurse came up and she looks in my ear, and she's like, I can't see anything. And can you still hear the flapping at this time? The flappinging started to die down.

Yeah, because it can't breathe. And I'm going on. Just having a nap. Yeah, true. I'm assuming, I'm like. It's just laid its eggs. It's very tired. I feel like I'm like, I've imagined this is a weird thing I've made up.

because she's like, I can't see anything. And then the doctor comes past, she's like, had you seen the bug? And he was like, no, no, no, I hadn't seen it. And I'm like, oh, fuck, it's embarrassing. They're like, oh, a big boy from the city, can't handle a flying his ear. And he grabbed the thing off her,

and he goes, put it in, like less than half a thing, and goes, there it is. Oh, my God, thank God. Justified. I was both, thank God, I'm not crazy. And oh, fuck, there's a bug in me here. So he's like, it's like it's around the back behind this waxy stuff, earwax probably. Sure, it makes sense.

Bugwax. And then she grabbed her back off him and goes, she's like now really digging around. It's getting quite painful. And she's like, I can't see it. She's digging around and digging around. And she finds her friend and brings her in. She's going really hard. Like, nah, not saying anything because the doctor's wandered off.

Oh. And then the doctor comes back. like a while later and he was like, have you been sorted out? I'm like, no, no, just hanging out with my mate. And, um,

but he named him? Yeah, uh, Gerald. And, great bug name. but they ended up just, he, he just tipped a saline solution. This is a way, it's a quite a dull story, isn't it?

And he goes, all right, it's dead now, it's drowned, right? He's like, it's dead. He did it really quickly. I quite liked his style. He was very accurate and quick. He's like, it's dead. Now it's suck him out.

And then... That's your kind of doctor. And then he starts sucking out. He goes, no, he's not... With his mouth. No, he had, like, a suction tool? A straw. Yeah.

It was basically a straw. It was like a mechanical straw with like a mechanical mouth, I guess, if that makes it easy. Like a motorized mouth. Is it motorized? this thing, genuinely. Yeah, it was like a fun.

It was like something, like a reverse air pump. A suction. A suction. Have you ever been to the dentist? Yeah, a thing that sucks. I've never had something sucked out of my brain before. All right.

Well, well, grow up. All right. You're only young. But he goes, he goes, he goes, dead and then he starts sucking. And he goes, no, it's not dead. Here it comes.

It's coming out. I'll finish him off. And then he... I'll finish him off. And he goes, yeah, he sucked him the rest of the way out. And I just went down a tube and I didn't even get to see it.

I wonder how big it was. Yeah, no, so I don't know anything. I don't know what kind of bug it was. Did it survive? I don't know. It went into their suction bank. Presumably not. Probably not. Well, this is all going on and I'm like, I'm in, I'm in hospital because I've got a bug in my ear. There's a, there's a, just a curtain. And on the other side of a curtain, a woman is being asked if she knows the day. Like, she's seriously in trouble. And I'm on the other side taking three people's attention away. For a bug going like, oh, this is fuck. This is like this old lady is struggling.

But did she get it? She got the dates right? Nailed it. But then they asked, what's the prime minister's name? Oh, that's hard to fucking keep up. I know, but that's... True question. What a weird question?

So she goes, Donald Trump. Close. And her partner, like, you know those sort of awkward scenarios where his partner's not doing too well? So he's feeling awkward, but something breaks attention like her saying Donald Trump, who's this strange? prime minister. So he cracks up laughing.

And he goes, she doesn't know anything about politics, whether she's well or not. Yeah. That's a weird. That would be me. Yeah. I was like, when they said what day of the week is it? I'm like, I've no fucking no idea. What day the week it is? You don't. I've no idea. I'm not a lot of holidays. Especially, and she's retirement age. Yeah, you don't know.

What does it matter? I think if I was in a hospital then. You want to ask, what's your name? Yeah. You know, things that she would definitely know. Who's the assistant treasurer? I don't know. I'm afraid of we're going to have to put in a home. I'm so sorry. We're going to have to put you down. I'm so sorry. Sorry. You've had a good run. We've got serious people to deal with. They've got bugs in there.

That would genuinely be me though. Oh no, they've asked me who the prime minister is. I don't want to be like an idiot. Quick, quick, quick, pass out. And I'd just like pretend to die. They're like, quick, quick, quick, pass. Next question. They've got like a cute sheet ready to go. All right.

If you hear this sound, bum-bon-bon. The answer has already been said. Another answer. Matt, well, but you've been a bit sick since, but you don't have any bugs on the brain. Yeah, anyway, I guess why I was telling you about that was because I would really like for you to do an episode about bugs today, please. All right, Jess, well, over to you. Great. Doing the report.

That is so lucky, because my topic is bug-related. Yes. Genuinely. Yeah, I assume all of the people in this story have at some point in their life seen or heard of a bug. Really? Wow. Every single one. Every one of them.

So this is pretty recent then because bugs are only discovered this century. Is that chewy or bubble gum? Chewy or Blu-Tac on the seat that I took my hand in? We'll say possible chewing gum. Who is it that keeps leaving chewy in the studios? And in a place where my hands would naturally rest. That's fucked. Sorry to derail, but jeez-loly.

That is even worse than a chairroller. Yeah, agreed. That's fucked. I got accused when I got here today of being. the person who steals all the comfy chairs out of the offices and puts them in the podcast studio. And I was like, how dare you? How dare you? But on air, will you now admit that it is you?

Oh, 100%, but that's only because I know the person accusing me will not listen to this. Hello, Xavier. All right. He's a very busy man. He's a very busy man. So, okay, no, this isn't bug related, but yes, I do assume that all of the people in this story have seen bugs. Or no, they may have even seen a bug's life, the film. Really?

So it's post-96. It's not, but. They were probably alive in 96. No, some of them definitely weren't. Okay. Okay. Look. Can I bring you to your question, please?

Absolutely. So my question is a little bit different today in that I want to, I want you guys to basically figure it out, which is, I suppose, what a question would do as well. But I'm going to give you a cast. Okay. So. Bung. The answer already said? So there's a, there's like a genre of topics that I have done that you, that you, you,

You may not be the biggest fans of, but our listeners certainly are. River dance. Not dance. What's the other sort of topic that I tend to lean towards? Spice Girls. No. Oh, music? Tragedy.

There we go. Serial killing. Bang, there we are. Oh, no, Matt. Oh, no. Woo! We're talking to serial killer. Well, you're just like, it's the listeners what they want.

Even though Matt and I always leave feeling quite uncomfortable. I was researching late at night and was scared to go to bed. That's great. It is not a good idea to get on the old Wikipedia and look up a serial killer before bed. Done it many times. It's not good. So, but this one, the reason that I kind of chose this was because it's probably one of our most requested topics. We've got heaps of people who have asked for this one.

So I'm just giving the people what they want and also I get to read about serial killers. So. I also do have a morbid fascination. But I do have the regret afterwards because I start remembering, oh, people are like that out there. Yeah, and like... Maybe not many, but still. Now I get why you quickly corrected yourself when you said that most of these people are alive. Yeah.

Some are definitely dead. Oh dear. Like, real dead. Like, yuck dead. So the question's going to be, what can't, which... Which serial killer. Which serial killer? So you want to have a few guesses about who may be?

Who have you heard of who? Is it northern hemisphere? Yes. Ted Bundy. No. Is it American? Yes. All right.

So that rules out. Zodiac Killer? Jack the Ripper? Zodiac? Zodiac. So many people have asked for this. I may have seen a half-hour portion of the Zodiac film starring Robid Danny Jr. In a motel.

In a motel? Oh, perfect place. No, terrifying place. I watched most of that once as well when I walked in on my friends and they were watching it. And I saw the last two-thirds. Oh, so you're even more of an expert than I am. Yeah. And I'm pretty...

That's not seen. A-M-A. But I'm terrified of scary movies. Like, I won't watch them. Is it scary? It's more of a procedural, like, what they're doing to find them. It wasn't very scary. Okay, that's all right then.

I won't do scary movies. So Zodiac Killer has been suggested by a number of people. Oh, yes, we have to thank probably half the listenership. Yeah, so here we go. Apologies if we missed your suggestion on this topic. Daniel Ryan. Frequent legend. Frequent legend.

Frequently legend. Tom Kreiser. Slightly less legendary, but still. No, you're great time, thank you. Oscar. Oscar's a frequenter. Sam Smith, Austin Brackett. Sam Smith.

All have... Austin brackets? What's inside the brackets? Stop it. Anyway, so those... You guys have all suggested it'sodiac. Matt's trying to take my thing by having a cough. By having a cough.

Get a hot cough. I'm just off for a cough. I'm just got to go ahead of cough. Anyone want to grab some cough? Anyone want a cough? Anyone in? You guys up for a cough later? You let your cough.

One's pretty dry. To go on. So, the Zodiac Killer was a serial killer who operated in Northern California in the late 60s and early 70s. The killer's identity remains unknown. Oh no, it's a mystery. It's a mystery. Oh no. Take it over your turf.

Warnocky. Fuck you. Fuck you, Warnocky. It's a serial killer. It's a mystery. All right. I know, I'm excited. I like it.

Listener's favorite and least favorite combo. So between December of 1968 and October of 1969, the Zodiac murdered victims in various places around California. Four men and three women between the ages of 16 and 29 were targeted. The killer originated the name Zodiac in a series of taunting letters sent to the local Bay Area Press. These letters included cryptograms or ciphers, so like puzzles. to figure out the message. You know what I mean? A little code.

Codes. Only one of those. So he sent four over the course of the years, and only one has been definitively solved. So even some of these codes and stuff that he sent to people that they couldn't figure them out. Is there any chance that they're bullshit? That they're bullshit. Or can they tell that it's a code but just not crack it?

Yeah, they can't crack it. But they can tell it it's not just a, it's not mumbo-jumbo. No, because it's not necessarily that he just, like, write letters in. It's to do with like symbols will represent a certain word And you've got to figure, yeah, a certain letter, sorry It'd be pretty fun if he just wrote gibberish. It was like, another code for you to crack. Yeah, it's just gibberish.

But then they somehow crack the code anyway and find him. He's like, no. What? How? Oh, subliminal code. He's accidentally coding. He wrote in my address. Return to dress.

Zodiac Killer of. Tom Jones. We'll be home. 3 on Thursday the 13th of March. Come around. I'll be putting on a nice PIMS lemonade. Please, RSFAP, buy the 10th so I can buy adequate amount of citrus fruit for the PIMS. Use the side gate and the back twillet.

Kind regards. Please stay out. Tom Jones slash 38 killer. Tom Jones is the killer? Yeah, Tom Jones. It's not unusual to kill seven people over two years. No, no, no, nah. Tom, it is quite unusual.

It's probably I should probably stop. Put your hands behind your back. Is that your Tom Jones, is it? What's your Sean Connery. It's very close. He's Welsh. Yes, but he doesn't sound Welsh.

He's just got a deep, nice voice. Like Matt does. Matt, give us the Tom Jones. Hi, I'm Tom Jones. Nailed it. It's not unusual. Fuck, he's good. To find out I'm in love with you.

Is this your true calling? A Tom Jones cover band? Why do we never get Matt to do impressions? He's actually really good. He just happens to have a deep voice similar to this one person I still think I can nail Except you have to say hello

I'm Sean Connery and then a sentence Which he doesn't do in any movies Because he's a real Sean Connery I suppose Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Hello I'm Jess Perkins One skinny latte please I have to say it every time I never know what to say when

Takeaway people answer the phone Hello you know Sharky's pasta and pizza or whatever Sure And I'm like, hello, I'd like to make an order, please. It's like they know that. Or sometimes they go, hi, I'd like to make an order under the name of Dave. Oh, that's nice.

But then they may forget and they'll just ask you for the name anyway. Yeah, they always go, so what's the name? And I'm like, look, I started the conversation with that. And if you can't decipher this, I will leave a series of clues. And if you can give the, full of the fish and chips to my postal address, that'll be much appreciated. Great. So, Tom Jack. So you're hungry, yep.

I'm very hungry. I'm waiting on several meals. Only one of four has been cracked No, I think it's nice to say Can I place an order please? That's fine, do that Is that fine? Thank you.

It's so rude to just be like Minimum chips, piece of flike Chicken bag on a little bit Well, yeah, it's like, hey, how's it going? Look at that. No, because then they're like, good. Oh yeah, you're good. So what are you being up to?

You've never really thought about that. I've never thought about starting with, hi, how's it going? That's all right. I don't do that. Every sentence with that, basically. So annoying. Anyway, Jess, how's it going? I answer phones for a living.

Don't ask. Hi, how are you? No, because I go, good, thank you. You don't make fish and chips for a living, though. Good, thank you. Can I have? Yeah, but that's fine, but most of the time, you say, I'm good, thank you. How are you?

And they've already started talking, and you're like, oh, now I feel like a fucking idiot. I'm good, thank you. How are you, minimum chips? Wait, so are you, so are you annoyed by the question or that they're, have you been burnt by people talking over your honest answer? Yeah, they're not listening. Well, I mean, I'm used to people not listening to me when I speak. All right, I'm going to give you a phone call now.

Ring ring, ring, ring. Hello, Jess, how's it going? Oh, I'm good, thank you. How are you? Yeah, good, thank you. This is Matt here. I was just calling because I've got a problem with my... What kind of thing? Do you work at him?

Say washing machine. I've got an issue with my washing machine. See, that's fine. Are you the right person to chat to about... I thought we were ordering fish and chips. No, but it's fine because he actually answered me and then started talking. Do it again, but just keep going after you. you say, how are you going?

Ready? Ring, ring, ring. Hello, Jess speaking. Hey, how's it going? Good, thanks. How are you? Yeah, anyway, I've got a washing machine issue. Can you fix it, please?

No, no, I can't. All right, but could I get a minimum chips? Absolutely. Thank you very much. And what name was that for? Tom Jones. Tom Jones, very good. I'll be ready in 15 minutes.

Thank you so much. I'll pick them up soon. Delightable. Pussy cat. What's new? Whoa, whoa, whoa. Anyway. I know two of his songs.

Uh, golden, no, what's his bond song? Did he do a bonnet? I mentioned it last week. A man with the golden gun? Was that him? No, he was, uh, something ball or something? Thunderball. Thunderball.

Oh, yeah. You're just saying the word Thunderball, aren't you? Yeah. Anyway. I've only ever heard not Tom Jones sing it, so I gotta. How did we get on to that? Because of the, because he was being, did he leave a rude message? So sorry, everybody.

Because he has bad phone etiquette. Bad phone etiquette. One of his many crimes. Okay. So, the first murders, widely attributed to the Zodiac Killer, with a shooting of high school students, Betty Lou Jensen, great name, and David Faraday, also a good name. On 23rd December, 1968, on Lake Herman Road.

The couple were on their first date, oh, brutal, and planned to attend a Christmas concert at Hogan High School about three blocks from Jensen's home. The couple instead visited a friend before stopping a local restaurant and then driving out on Lake Herman Road. Wow, sounds like they planned on turning... The Christmas, that's what they've told their parents, but really, they're going out to get a bit busy. Well, yeah, because at about 10, 15pm, Faraday parked his mother's Rambler in a gravel turnout,

which was well-known lover's lane. Yeah, they were going to get their freak on. Cop and a feel. Wow. Yep. It's not unusual. Over the top of the T-shirt, though. Jesus, it's their first date.

Come on. God. Betty Ray Cyrus, whatever name is. Betty Lou Jensen. Betty Lou Jensen. Over the top. She's a class out. She's absolute class.

David Faraday. Hands off, bud. Yeah, hey, how about you get to know my brain before you get to know my body? Yeah. And how about we go to this fucking Christmas concert? Like you said we were going to. Tom Jones was playing. Jingle bells.

At Hogan High School, that's awesome. That's so cool. It's probably like, what is it, 68? Yeah, it was part of his long peak. Yeah, Peak Jones. Which keeps going. Peak Jones. Peak Jones.

Peak Jones. He's peak. Anyway, so that's about quarter past 10 That was about quarter past 10 They parked the car in Lovers Lane Probably just to do their math homework or something Yeah, it's got good lighting And a great internet connection

Yeah, so they're just like, let's get some homework done before Christmas You know, so we can really just chill out So shortly after 11pm their bodies were found Bystler Borgers who lived nearby And the sheriff's department Investigated the crime But no leads developed They were utilising available

forensic data and they postulated that another car pulled into the turnout just prior to 11pm and parked beside the couple and the killer apparently exited the second car and walked towards the rambler, possibly ordering the couple out of the car. Jensen appears to have exited

the car first, yet when Faraday was halfway out, the killer apparently shot Faraday in the head and then Jensen started running and was gunned down 28 feet from the car with five shots through her back. Oh! I wonder what his angle is.

I feel like he's a pretty good shot. Yeah. Pretty, well, I guess. I don't know. It was three meters, not that far. Hager was the name of the person that found him. You enjoyed that. I heard you little girl.

Stella Borgias. Stella Borgias. Stella Borgias. It sounds like a bottle of champagne. Stadourgers. Yeah, do you want to get a bottle of Stella Borgias for that special occasion? Yeah, I do. That's another made-up name.

Matt, can you pick up some Stella Borgers on your way home? We've got guests coming. Oh. Who's coming out? Who deserves this Stella? The Queen. Oh, the Queen's coming. Just fire Love is Lane.

You don't mind? Yeah, just pop past Lovers Lane, pick up some Stella Borgias. Okay, but remember, with the Queen, only above shirt petting. Please. Please. On the first. Petting. On the first, uh...

She's a lady. She's a lady. She's much more lady like than Polly Ray Cyrus. I can tell you that. I think it was Billy Ray Jepson. Betty Ray Jensen. Betty Lou Jensen. Fuck.

Wow, I got none of the names right. God. So, yeah, so they, after that, like, they investigated, but they were never able to find any evidence or never able to find the killer. Then just before midnight, on July 4th, 1969, so this was about six months later. Darlene Ferren.

Great, that is... Darlene. They're all random computer-generated names. And Michael McGur. Oh, I'm ready to Michael McGarer right now They drove into the Blue Rock Spring Park Oh no, are they also How are these kids?

Well, young Wait, are these victims were making fun of? Yeah, yeah Well, I wasn't making fun of So, interesting point of difference there So they parked their car in the park And while the couple sat in Darlene's car A second car drove into the lot

And part immediately drove away And then about 10 minutes later the car came back and parked again. Oh no, they had a chance to get away. The driver of the second car then exited the vehicle, approached the passenger side, a passenger door of the car, and he had a flashlight and a 9mm luga. That's a gun, Matt.

It's not just a big spitball. Yeah. A 9mm. Get out of the car. I've got a really big one ready to go. Get out. I can't hold it. No, no, no, no.

Oh, he doesn't like spit jokes, are there? No, of course I don't. Have a modicum of taste, please. Oh, a modicum. How do they... I'm wondering how they know such specific things. Like, oh yeah, you're going to get under that. No, no, no.

How he's driven in twice? I'm like, oh, maybe they've figured that out from car tracks. How else might they know? Survivor. Boom. Warnocky, he's on it. Yes. I can tell you, you can only kill one person with a spitball, not two.

With his 9mm. That's right. Bloody, um... The other one's had time to run. Matt McGows out. Matt McGows. So the first one, they both died. They both died.

And they could tell the story because you could sort of figure it out. A bit of forensic evidence based on like car tracks and stuff like that. He was shot mad when the body was just out the door. Exactly. Whereas obviously the girl was a bit further away. I think this bullet may have killed him. It would have been weird for Zodiac to go, look, I got him both while they'll sit in the car. but I want to make this little fun.

I'm going to drag her away a little bit. But that's not unheard of either. Yeah, but why? I don't know, just to throw them off, I don't know. You could probably tell us something, random, you shot him down, though. And they can tell if bodies have been moved. Yeah, unless you're really good at it. Yeah.

Yeah, maybe he's, or she. Yeah. He's real good. I reckon there's Polly Ray Cyrus. She's dead. She's dead. It's not a person. She doesn't exist.

Because she's dead. She died in the first paragraph. No, I'm just, I've got a feeling that someone called... Carly Ray Jepson. No, I've got a feeling that someone called Polyra Cyrus is the killer. I'm just putting it out there. Okay. And by the end of the episode, if we've solved it, you'll know that I was right.

Okay, yep. I might just go on, I reckon. Oh yeah, they haven't been shot yet. They haven't been shot yet. They haven't been shot. Well, you don't know that they are going to be. You two are jumping to some conclusions here. He's got a luger.

He's got a luga. He's got a luga, which is a gun. Now, he directed the flashlight into their eyes and then shot at them, firing five times. Now, both victims were hit, and several bullets had passed through Magoo, Magoo, and into Darlene. So it shot through Michael into Darlene. Now, the killer walked away from the car, but upon hearing that Michael was moaning, he returned and shot each victim twice before driving off. Oh, no.

I don't want to, I don't want to speak out of turn here or jump to any conclusions. But I fucking hate this Zodiac guy. He's a real jerk. He's a big old jerk Are you sure? Yeah I don't know I go

I feel like I bet you he had a lot of living to go I did not Oh no I'm being sincere And so Darlene as well Darlene I know

She had everything in front of her So Unlike Matt I'm not going to jump to conclusions on this guy He's only shot four people so far How many people are in the world Think about the people he hasn't shot

Yeah well I mean That is of course The other side of the coin and I think it's a perfectly valid side of the coin I've just flipped and landed on the he's a piece of fucking shit side which is you know the smaller side I'm probably I'm guessing that popular opinion disagrees with me but that's fine all right am I not allowed to have an opinion now Dave hey we're gonna find out what the popular opinion is so is Michael gone is he McGahn well this all just happened do go McGone this was all happening just before midnight

It was quite late at night, right? At about 1240, a man phoned the police department to report and claim responsibility for the attack. The caller also took credit for the murders of Jensen and Faraday six and a half months earlier. Oh, on the phone? On the phone. So he's called them and he said, hey, I've just shot some people in a park. Okay, sorry, I've just got another call. I'm trying to fix a washing machine in a moment.

Can you just hold for two gyps? Yeah, okay. It's really important, though. All right, look, let me see if I'm going to lose this washing machine. clown. It's been overtly polite anyway. Kind of getting on my nerves. Just get to the fucking point, mister. We've switched.

We have. Are you playing me now? I think so, yeah. Okay. I think you did quite well, actually. Thank you very much. I felt like you actually, you were much warmer pretending to be me than you normally are. And I could see that. Yeah, I lifted. Yeah. That's acting. I'm an actor. Wow.

Now I suddenly get why people love me so much. Yeah. Do you think... I'm a ray of sunshine. Yeah. Wow. Cali Ray of Sunshine Jepson. It's Polly Ray Cyrus, guys. Sorry, I'll get that wrong every time.

Anyway, so he's called the police station. He's told them that he's just shot some people, and he also did it six and a half months ago. The police traced the call to a phone booth at a gas station at Spring Road, about three-tenths of a mile from Ferran's home, and only a few blocks away from the police department itself. So, Darlene, So then I think obviously people were like,

okay, this is what's happened. So then they went and found Darlene and Michael. Right. Darlene, unfortunately, was pronounced dead at the hospital. She survived. I mean, he survived. Michael survived the attack to start being shot in the face, neck and chest.

How many times? A lot. And it went through him to her. Yes. Oh, what a fucking awful thing to live through. Awful. But he survived. Shot in the face.

lived. Would he be charged with attempted murder? This has gone through him. No. Dave. It's like an own goal. If a goalie gets a finger on it, it's like a ricochet. No, that's not an own goal. You know what I mean? If a defender accidentally...

Yeah, I don't think that... Yeah, but then that that defender has made contact with the ball, right? Yeah. So, but in this case, Michael hasn't touched the gun. No, but the bullet. He didn't hold... He didn't hold the gun and shook through him. Bullets kill people.

Right. Okay, new theory. What if Michael's been shot, he crawls to a phone booth, makes the call saying, I did it because he did do it, goes back to the car. He's got away with murder.

Wow. What an amazing thing to put yourself through. But if you want to, the thing that people go do to get away with murder, you should watch the Poirot episode, The Agatha Christie. Oh my God.

Death on the Nile. Jeez, he squeezes Poirot in Ireland. He helps it, doesn't he? I love that you also know the names of the episodes Oh man, it is one of the best Really? Do you have to know Poirot well to watch it? No, they're all self-contained Do you have to know the Nile well?

No, but it helps Anyway, so Michael has survived. Now, on, so that was early July. At this stage, the police must be thinking, well, we're going to get this guy, he wants to tell us what's going on. Yeah. He's just down the road. There's so much of that, though.

quick and easy. In their heads they'd be like, oh, this guy's not right, we're going to quickly sort. But imagine in the 1960s, it would probably taking a couple of hours to trace that phone call, right? I don't know. It's not like now when you're like, quick, call up Telstra and us, who's doing this?

Yeah, I don't know. And how quick is it now, anyway? Like, in the movies, it always makes it sound like they have to keep him talking for 30 seconds, you know, so they can trace it. I wonder if it's like that. And the bad guy always knows to hang up just in time. Yeah. Nearly got it.

Keep him talking. Keep him talking. See you later. Do we get it? We lost the call. We lost the call. But then again, you listen to cereal, and they could, like, trace text messages that was sent from...

To the tower. What tower? Yeah, what tower. So, you know, and that was data from ages ago. God, geez, Louise. Tell you what. Anyway, so that was early July, right? And then in August, August 1st of 1969,

three letters prepared by the killer were received at the Vallejo. I'm probably saying that wrong. I'm really sorry. Dave. It's pronounced Akron? Do you say Velao? It's a Valleo, yeah. Valleo Times Herald, the San Francisco Chronicle, and the San Francisco Examiner, so three newspapers.

Now, the nearly identical letters took credit to the shootings at Lake Herman Rose, so the first one's Betty and David. David Faraday. And Betty Lou Jensen. And also the Blue Rock Springs, which was Michael and Darlene. I'm not going to be able to remember everybody's name as we go. Michael McGough, Darlene. Ferran. Ferran.

I can just say it. I'm on a microphone. Ferren. Ferren. So each letter also included one third of a 408 symbol cryptogram, which the killer claimed

contained his identity. Right, right, right. So he sent these to three different places? Yes. So he sent it to three different newspapers. Very cool. And so he's split up the cryptogram into thirds and sent a third each.

Right? So then he said that they all had to be printed on each, papers front page or he would cruise around all weekend killing lone people in the night then move on to kill again until I end up with a dozen people over the weekend. Oh you can't give in to that, can you? What, like the papers would be like, nah, we've got some hot goss we'll put on the front cover instead. Well, you can't, just because that's, well, that's holding them to ransom.

You can't be like, I'm going to, I'm going to blow up your building if you don't put my story on the front page. Sure, you can't. Do they do it? Yeah, they did it. Absolutely they did. Well, probably the newspapers are probably also like, while this will sell really well. So I'm not sure if they all did.

The Chronicle definitely did. They published its third of the cryptogram on page four of the next day's edition, not on the front page. Oh, he would have been fucking pissed. Page four. An article printed alongside the code, quoted the police chief, Jack E. Stilts. Great name. Jackie Stilts. They're not satisfied that the letter was written by the murderer and requested the writer

send a second letter with more facts to prove his identity. Keep him talking. Now, the threatened murders did not happen, and all three parts were eventually published, so all three parts of his cryptogram. And on August 7th, so about a week later, another letter was received at the San Francisco Examiner with the salutation, Dear Editor, this is the Zodiac speaking. And this was the first time the killer had used this name for identification. Like, he named himself Zodiac, which is kind of weird.

Then again, like I really, I wanted a nickname, and I landed with BOP, so Zodiac's pretty sick, hey? This is the Bop killer. This is the Bop speaking. The letter was a response to Chief Stilzer's request for more details that would prove he had killed Faraday, Jensen and Ferrin. And so in this letter, the Zodiac included details about the murders which had not yet been released to the public. So it's sort of like, only I would know this because I was there.

It's not like somebody could have researched up and, you know, he was like, well, here's this. As well as a message to the police that when they cracked his coat, they will have me so it's like well you're going to crack my code then you'll find me the next day Donald and Betty

Harden just two people cracked the 408 symbol cryptogram it contained just two people cracked it two people husband and wife brother and sister

I don't know what their relationship is but they're obviously real bored but is that just was that just one third no that's all of it that's all of it they got it they got it what did it say? Oh, I'm getting to it!

I'm so excited. It's so exciting, right? So there's like, there's lots of spelling mistakes, and it's a bit with it. The rest of this sentence explains it, but I'll just read you what he said. So it says, I like killing people because it is so much fun.

It is more fun than killing wild game in the forest because man is the most dangerous animal of all. To kill something to give me the most thrilling experience, it is even better than getting your rocks off with a girl. The best part of it is that, when I die, I will be reborn in paradise and they have killed will be... Oh, those I've killed maybe.

I don't know. The spelling is so bad. Those have killed will become my slaves. I will not give you my name because you will try to slow down or stop my collecting of slaves for my afterlife. The last 18 letters are just nonsense. There's just letters that don't make any words.

Wow. Yeah. Why would they do that? Is that to... I don't understand. I don't know either. But also, he said, if you crack this, then you'll know my identity.

And then he's like, nah, you know my identity. Which is so weird. Yeah. So weird. It sounds like he's obviously not of sound mind, but also he's clever enough to not... Oh, are you only just figuring out this serial killer isn't of sound mind? But no, it sounds like he's very...

Thanks so much for your astute psychological observation there, Dr. Warnocky. But I would say that... You're fucking idiot. I wouldn't say that every serial killer is... No, they're mentally not. Wait, what? Is this another moment? Let him finish.

No, no, no. What were you going to say? You shouldn't have stopped me because now I can justify what I was going to say. I would say, I think there's different types of, I don't know, the technical terms of this. Say what you're going to say, Dave. But some, obviously he sounds like he's believing in some deluded afterlife. There's always weird reasons for them to being a serial killer, but some, I want to say, they're weird than others, but this sounds real weird.

Oh, he was definitely going to say that not all serial killers are psychos. He was definitely going to say that. Oh, dear. I don't know if they are, because they're not. What's the thing about? Well, there is a technical definition for psychopath. Sure, but they'd have, uh, they may not be psychopath or sociopath, which is a different one as well,

but they, they would definitely have some sort of psychological, uh, Oh, well, they're not well. They're not well. They've got some pretty extreme issues. Apart from, you know, physically. Your old, your old mate. Your mate. He was fine. He was misunderstood.

Yeah, I mean, it wasn't that bad. Wasn't he? He talking about the Zodiac? Oh. Could be anyone, couldn't it? I mean, it could have been him. Could have been. Could have been.

Your mate. I don't know how you talking about. I think you do, mate. I think you do. Also, speaking of Dave's mate, on the radio the other day we had a news reader doing a news story about Hitler's book, but she called him adult Hitler. And she did it. Like, my co-host Mitch and I, we heard it in the reader's voice, the newsreader.

Yes. We heard it and looked at each other and we're like, that's weird. But then she did, she does a news break, so she'll do them. like four news breaks within the one show, and she did it every time. Adult Hitler. What? Do you think she'd just written that word down? I just don't think she could say his name.

Oh, okay. Adult Hitler. Well, Adolf Hitler is much scarier than child Hitler. Yeah, we started making jokes about baby Hitler. Anyway. Did it? So you were bringing it up in between? No, we didn't mention it on air, but we mentioned it to each other.

Hang out. So you mean that she'd done it twice. And you didn't say, hey, by the way, you're making a bit of a fool of this up. No. That is pretty awful. She's not, she's in a different studio. Oh, so not. I could bang on the window.

Oh, so not in a different city. No. What, what, it's just how she's saying it. Oh, don't make me the bad guy here. She said adult Hitler. It's very funny. What an idiot. She's a grown woman.

She's probably around when he was, no, she's not that old. Anyway, she's an adult. She's an adult. Hitler. Somebody tell me to do go on. Do go on. Michael McGow on. Michael McGow on.

That's what you should have said before, Matt. I know. You were trying. Well, it's because you just said Michael, anyway. I understood right in that moment that I fucked it. But thanks for bloody going back and tipping a shovel. Just shoving the knife in a bit deeper. You bring up Adolf Hitler and I'll come back and I'll fuck you all up.

Oh, wow. As Hitler would have wanted. Good for you, Dave. He really gets him fired up. No. Thinking about his overlord or whatever. What do you refer to him off there? Zodiac.

Oh, that is not true. Please do not spread that. Back to the Zodiac. So these letters and his cryptogram and everything, that was all in August of 69. At the end of September, the next month, Pacific Union College students Brian Hartnell and Cecilia Shepard.

Those are pretty good names too. Yeah. Cecilia Shepard. I can't wait for there to be a dull name in one of our reports. There never is. There shan't be. And you know what else I can't wait for? there to be a bad year.

Yeah. Not going to happen. Somebody did tweet and was like, you should like mix it up a bit and say, what a crap year. I just can't because every year is a good year. They're all great. You should think of one.

One year and then when it comes up, I'll lose a shit. Maybe one of the years when Dave's mate did a lot of his worst damage. What years were those days? You'd know them very well. I mean, you think of them as positive years, but... No. The rest of the world.

No. But not all serial killers are that bad. Did never say that. You can't even claim that one. Anyway, Brian and Cecilia Brian and Cecilia were picnicking at Lake Beriesa Which is fun to say, have a go Lake Beriazza

Adolte Hitler Fucked it, fuck They're having a picnic which is adorable On a small island connected by a sand spit Luger To Twin Oak Ridge None of this really knows all that much Now apparently a man approached them

This is super creepy I also realize like it's so fascinating because in my head I just turned into like a movie It's just a horror movie and it's but this actually happened. It's terrifying Yeah, it's called Zodiac. It's got Robert Jr. I know, I gotta watch it. Anyway, a man approached them wearing a black executioner's type hood. Oh no, no. Clip on sunglasses over the eye holes. You're terrified, you're terrified. You're terrified. You're like, oh, who's this fucking idiot? This is a guy who makes puzzles for the police. He's got clip on Sunnis and a bib

A dribble bib No, like a bib like device on his chest They apparently had like a white Look, I was gonna say before He doesn't sound like he's that insane But he clearly is He clearly is He was looking yourself in the mirror

I've just been eating some sort of fried chicken With some dipping sauce And he just didn't want You got the clip on Sunnis over You look yourself in the mirror With the hood on you go Yes I could scare people with this Hang on I don't want to damage the eyes

But I put on the odd sun protection Maybe he has really, really noticeable eyes, like, identifiable. Like, Dave, if I think I saw you in a balaclava, I'd know it was you. With those big blues. Thank you very much. I'd know them anywhere. Old blue eyes here. Matt, I wouldn't have a fucking clue.

No idea. Can't see his eyes. He's so hairy. Yeah. You'd have to... He's like a bear. I've never seen Matt's mouth. What's his mouth look like?

He's pulling up his mustache. What are you having? He's got lips! Oh my God. It looks like a weird fish hole. Like a gill That was so funny I mean, no offense

No offense But something that's on your face That's always clear No offense, but that's gross Oh What's going? Oh, we'll have to tweet a photo of that Sorry

We'll put a warning up as well Only look if you're an adult Hitler It's a weird thing I was aware of what I was going to do there A couple of things Start in the Yeah, that's my favorite one If you wanted to freak people out

they were having a picnic on a sandbar, you wouldn't need an execution so you'd just lift up your mustache and be like, yeah. But you'd be wearing sunglasses to hide your identity, of course. What would I need to hide? No, I don't want to ask.

You laugh. You could not laugh whilst killing. That's the number one rule. There's no way she could. Look at him going down. That would be scary. me laughing. That would change your laugh.

Oh yeah. If you're doing that as you're blowing people down. Cop that at old Hitler. Ha ha ha ha ha. I can't even mimic my own laugh. I don't know what it sounds like. It just feels good to me. Sounds like death.

Anyway. You hear that laugh, you're in real trouble. Oh. So, he approached them, with these clip on glasses and his executioner style robe. Do you reckon they saw the clip on glass and thought, oh, everything's going to be okay?

Yeah, probably. Oh, I think this goes okay. Then he had a gun. Oh, I'm starting to panic a bit. He also told them that he was an escaped convict from Deer Lodge, Montana, where he had killed a guard and stolen a car. If they know this, Matt, I'm thinking that someone might survive, which is good. Yes.

He explained that he needed their car and money to go to Mexico. He had brought pre-cut lengths of plastic clothes line and told Shepherd to tie up Hartnell. So he made Cecilia tie up Brian. Oh, if he got... me to do that. He'd think I was trying to do a bad job, but really, I'm just bad. I know. Practical task. Nah, mate, you're fucking, don't fuck me over here. Tie her up properly and I'd be like, all right, I've got the two bunny years. You're in a real sweet spot there as the guy, because you'd be like, he's doing this and going to kill us anyway,

but you'd just be like, I guess it's worth the try. What, not tying properly? No, like doing what he says. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because really, obviously this guy, if it's Assuming this is the Zodio. Yeah. Then he's going to going to fuck him in the end. Yeah. So that's probably the moment where you want to like punch him right in the clip-ons. He can.

I reckon that would be my play. Punch him in the clip-ons. Right between the clip-ons. Oh no. My clip-ons. I flipped off. I know. You can see my red eyes.

My distinctive red eyes. Oh, no. He's like an albino rabbit. Well, the hood would also protect his skin. Yeah. From the sun. Anyway, so he's made Cecilia tie up Brian, and then the killer himself ties Brian up. But then he notices that Cecilia had tied Brian's hands kind of loosely.

Maybe she's just bad at practical tasks. I reckon that his task was, alright, I'll get him to tie her to, hang on. Oh, no. This doesn't work. I need a third person. Hey, hey, over there, come over here and tie up this man. Come here. I'm just going to untie her hands, so his hand, so he can then.

tie her up. It's like, oh, hang on. This is one of his bizarre maths problems. He's running out of code for it. Hang on, no, I've got this, I've got this. If she tie, no, you tie me up and then, oh, hang on, no, this isn't good. So he takes, I can't be tired up. He takes a chicken in the boat across to the other side first.

Quick, hold my gun. Hold on. Let me think this out. We'll do both hands. I'm going to count on both fingers. Both fingers. I've only got one. That's exactly what happened.

No, what did happen? So he's noticed that she did a shit job. So he's just, he's just tightened it up. He's tightened both up, so they're both tight. So if you were thinking, oh, good, they can get away. Do you reckon that he was like, sorry about that, sorry? Who knows? Like, apologize for his shit work?

No, it was her. She did a bad job. So, you know, she probably did apologize. It's too late. It is too late for apologies. So initially they kind of thought Brian believed it to be a weird robbery. What does that tell us if Brian, we know Brian's thoughts? I think he was saying too.

You see Celia before he died and she passed it on. No, he's written it in blood as he died, a really long message, including the words, I thought this was robbery, I think I was wrong. But the man then drew a knife and stabbed them both repeatedly. Why did he draw a knife first? Enough with your illustrations, mate. Get to the killing. With Brian's blood. Oh, Brian, you're writing a message there. Can I have a go?

That's a pretty good knife. So he stabbed them repeatedly. He stabbed them repeatedly. This is not the same M.O. Matas operandi. I know. But the killer then hiked 500 yards back up to Knoxville Road, drew the cross-circle symbol on Hartnell's car door

with a black felt-tip pen and wrote beneath it, Vallejo, 12-2068, 7-4-69, September 27-69, 630 by knife. So, like, coordinates? Yeah. Well, no, he sort of, yeah, I guess so, yeah. He's done the date. Yeah. Antone court.

What was Vallejo again? That was one of the previous murders. Ah, so he gave the coordinates of a past murder. The date. Yeah, the place and the date. Creepy. Right, but he's also done this symbol that's become his symbol, which is like a cross with a circle around the middle as well.

Have you ever seen that? Yeah. It's on the, it features heavily in the movie. Ah. Maybe in the logo of the movie. In the two-thirds of the movie, you saw that. Probably in the outro. The end credits.

So he's, he's, he's changed his weapon. Yeah, that's what he does. they were saying is different MO. And also, so he's tied him up and then stabbed him. Tied him up and stab him. Because he was like, I probably can't take him. So he's not a big strong guy, obviously.

Who knows? Otherwise, he probably, because he mean he's the only one with a knife, he could have just, why do he takes so long to do it? I don't know. I don't know. Just enjoyed the process. It's very strange, right? It's clearly got some sort of jealousy thing of couples too, right?

Yeah, that's a theory. That is a theory that people have. Because, again, we don't know who it is. So people have had theories and, That is sort of linked to a few of the theories. If I had done these murders, to make people think I hadn't done it, what I'd do is I'd report on it on a podcast and play a little dumb. Would you?

Yeah, I would do that, Jess. Hmm. Just saying. He also doesn't think all serial killers are that psycho. Differing levels of psychosis. Which makes me sound quite clever, but I don't really know what I'm saying. Oh, boy. Matt, we're going to die.

That's pretty clear, Dave. know what you're saying. There are other people in the studio today, right? Yeah, but we'll just get in all right. Anyway. Can I just ask, what's that question? There are other people in the studio, right? Because I might kill you, or because you're thinking of killing me

and thinking of there are witnesses. No, it was more like, if I scream, if somebody can come running, that's what I thought, am I thinking. Xavier isn't quite a big man. I took it more. And I reckon he'd rain punishment down on your face? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Do you reckon he'd protect me?

Oh, of course. Xavier? Bloody hell. How many people do you think? That's nice. Just you don't think I could beat? I mean, he would not be able to beat me in a fist fight. I don't think I could beat anyone.

No, I reckon you could take a toddler. But I mean, if you are like an infamous serial killer, maybe you've got skills. Yeah, but we don't know about it. I'd want you to think I wasn't good. I'd want you to think you're weed in. We couldn't take you. I could take you in a fight easily.

I also did taekwondo for three years. Ooh. So, anyway. Yeah, Jess would beat the shit out of you day. I'd bet the shit of both of you. At the same time. I reckon I would bet. beat the shit out of Matt, just because he's too nice and wouldn't hurt me.

But I am not nice. Yeah, Matt, you could be one punch away from death and you'd still be like, all right, I'm not going to do it. Come on, come on, go. All right, mate. Good stuff. All right. All right.

Can't we just get along? Yeah, that would be you. Captain Nice guy over here. Anyway, so they've been stabbed, right? Repeatedly. Repeatedly. At 7.40 p.m., the killer called the Napa County Sheriff's Office from a pay phone to report this latest crime.

The phone was found, still off the hook, minutes later, at the Napa car wash on Main Street. Only flew a few blocks from the sheriff's office, yet about 27 miles from the crime scene. So he'd sort of like fled. Traveled a bit. Called a bit. Called him. Like, hey, just so you know, did a little murder. Alright, boy.

Direct quote. Now they were able to, yeah, direct quote. They were able to lift palm print from the telephone, but they were never able to match it to any suspect. See, you'd have to work a lot harder these days as a serial killer because the pay phone per mile ratio You'd have to like drive a long way to find a pay phone I have no idea where my nearest payphone is I don't know either

I'm assuming there'd probably be one on The street You don't need them anymore That's why people have burner phones Burner phones What if you don't have a phone at all? People are just, these kind of guys Would just have a big bag of burners, I reckon

Sure But how do you buy burners? Phnomones? Supermarkets. Ah, okay. Cash. Yeah, cash. Untraceable.

In Australia, when you buy even a SIM card at the supermarket, I had to fill out a form. Did you? I was going overseas, but I bought a travel SIM. I had to fill out a form and declare how many... No, I bought a Vodafone SIM because it was $2 or something. And I had to sign a thing saying, I don't have multiple phones. What? Like, you know, not like 10 plus type of.

Did they check your ID, though? I think I have to write down my license number. So get a fake ID first, that's what I'd say. I bought a SIM in New Zealand a couple months ago. It was just at a news agency. Yeah, I just went to the first. It was just like, can I have one of those? And they gave it to me, it was too easy.

Yeah, when I was in the UK, I just bought, went up to the first news agent in the airport and said, hello, Sim, please. And they said, you got a funny accent. I said, I'm from Australia. And they said, oh, you? That's interesting. My cousin lives in Australia. Do you know him?

His name's Darren. I said, no. There's fucking heaps of us. Are you kidding me? There's like 10 Darren's. I know which Darren. They're like Darren Simpson. He's got a good brown hair, glasses.

And I said, that's funny. I actually do know Darren. I used to work with him. It's a lovely guy. I had brunch with him with a tennis club just last week. That's just a coincidence. I don't know eight of the other nine. He mentioned he was having brunch with Jess Perkins, the tennis club.

I think I've listened to your podcast. And then here we are. So hello to Gary if he's listening. Hi, Gary. I don't know what just happened. I'm sorry. I blacked out. I got too far in the riff.

Got lost in a riff. Deep riff. Anyway. We're talking about pay phones. Why? Because they're hard to come by. They're hard to come by. I feel sorry for the modern serial killer.

I know. It is hard. It is hard. I admit that. He admits he feels sorry for serial killers. The modern serial killer. Not this guy. He had plenty of pay phones.

It was like one at every bloody gas station in California. Maybe the closest one was 27 miles away. Did he walk there? Did he have a car? I don't know, Dave. I'm not the Zodiac killer. All right. Sorry, but I thought.

You did have that car, right? I thought... He killed him. He killed him. He rode on their car and then... Oh, yeah. I'm assuming left, because it'd be weird to ride on their car and then drive it around. So he's a guy...

He's there in a, like, basically with a sack on his head. And the old man foot down glasses. Yeah. And a bib. Doing a little murder and then going about his day. And his story was all, like, made up. It could have been... Why do you have to make up a story?

You didn't have to make up a story. He's like, Yeah, I like killing. Maybe it was just to, so it was easier to approach them. But then he told him he was an escaped convict. And he's going to make people trust you. And he's wearing a hood on is it? That is one is to try and convince him.

It's okay, I'm an escaped convict. My name is Jeff. I have a Dalmatian. Great, create a backstory, create a report. This is good. I have a Dalmatian. Now, if these people survive, they'll tell the cops and they'll come looking for Jeff with a Delamation to escape from prison.

And I'm Darren Brown from Melbourne, Australia. If I don't do this thing successfully, which I definitely should, because it's killing two people who are going to be tied up. You know what? It's like in the middle of the day, too. But what is this deal? They're often late at night when you're making out. And you know what?

Do you know how many times, this is a total overshare, do you know how many times I've parked a car in a park and made out in the car? No, how many times? A lot. Really? As a teenager. As a teenager. Now I have a home that can make out in.

Oh, really? Yeah, I've lived in time though No, night time Yeah, night time And like other cars would park near you It was fucking terrifying now So were you terrified at the time? Yes

Oh So you knew you had a bad feeling People might have been dogging you Dogging? Is that the thing where people watch Watch people making out In Carpa? Probably

Dogging Sounds like it would mean something else I'm not a hundred Look I'm not gonna put my life on that That's what it means now Anyway Should be called Dave, what should it be called?

Car parking. That would be confusing. We've got that little clips into the teenage Jess's personal life there. How many cars are we talking? Just riding cars with boys? Just two cars. Dave, I would... Two different cars?

Yeah. But multiple times in each car. I reckon... Multiple parks? Yeah. Matt go on. I'm just thinking that you've probably got an insight into the majority of people. Oh, thanks.

I'm ordinary. Great. Thanks, Matt. I know, I was trying to say... Nothing special about me. About ordinary old Jess, everybody does what Jess does. I was saying it was just, it's weird that Dave hasn't parked somewhere and made out with someone. Oh, I still do that.

Well, then what the fuck are you talking about? It's just, uh, I just thought I was alone. I don't open up all that often. Yeah, I was just saying it was great to... Oh, you tell us more. No, I'm done. Yeah, mate, you should have been... Oh, do you mean about the report?

Should have been encouraged, not discouraged, right, man? Well, I mean, I... I don't know. I'm here to hear about... Serial killers. Serial killers. Not Jess's bloody... Making out in the car.

Oh. Oh, no. No, no. No. Man, man, man. That's good all right. Ow. Gears stick.

Oh. All right. So that's... Oh, wow. It's narrowed it down. It's not a motorbike. Okay. Interesting.

Are you going to go find the car? Yeah. It's probably more likely I'll find that car than the... Serial killer. What are you going to do with that car? That's a weird thing. I don't think that boy owns that car anymore. I know he doesn't.

I'm going to find that car. I'm going to tie it up. I'm going to stab it. Stab the car. You're going to go down with your clip-ons? And I'm going to write some coordinates of this studio and this date. When I first heard about the car, and I'll draw the little my symbol, which is...

Where are you going to stop the car? All over. Wow. Multiple times. Wow. And I'm going to be wearing a hood. And rebands. Oh, Raybans.

Oh, you're going to take it up or not. They're a bit cool. I'm more modern. Yeah, that's right. Only cool people wear Raybair. Anyway, so he's made the call. Now, after a man and his son were fishing nearby and heard the screams of, I've already forgot their names.

We've been talking so long. Cecilia and Brian. And so they went and found them and they contacted Park Rangers and they got the police. Do they get an ambulance? Yes. Good. Cecilia Shepard was conscious when. the police arrived and she provided him with a fairly detailed description of the attacker.

Hood, glasses. Bibb. Oh, he said he escaped from prison. Thank you. Very good. Brian and Cecilia were taken to the Queen of the Valley Hospital in Napa. By ambulance. Yes, there was an ambulance.

Cecilia, she lapsed into a coma during transport to hospital and never regained consciousness. She died. That's amazing that she was able to describe anyone then. I know, because she was conscious and she was able to talk. She died two days later, but Brian survived to recount his tale to the press. So now he's left a couple of survivors, which means they're getting a better idea of what he looks like and how he operates, I suppose, but not really.

He's obviously not very good. Well, he's actually probably the best because they still don't know who he is. Yes, he's good at hiding his tracks, but not good at following through on the killing. Yeah. Hmm, good call. Hey, we've all got to work on something. We all do. We've all got stuff to work with. So have the men mainly survived or the women?

There is so much more. Two men. Two men have survived. Out of the couple. Maybe he only is after the lady slaves, so he's not fully killing the man. Possible? Less stabs. Less stabs in the lady?

What? No, no, no. Let's for John. I mean, let's do go for John. Two weeks later on October 11 in 1969, a passenger entered the cab driven by Paul Stein at the intersection. of two roads. I don't know why I have to read the roads in San Francisco.

You don't know where they are. And he asked to be taken to two other roads. Where is he going, Jess? I need to work at this house. Washington and Maple Streets. People are playing along at home by Google Maps.

If there's anybody in San Fran, he was in the intersection of Mason and the Geary Streets. One block west from Union Square. Tweet in if you actually know where that is. If you can picture it, don't Google it. If you can picture that in your mind,

we want to hear from you. And he asked to be taken to Washington and Maple Streets in Presidio Heights. Okay? All right, everybody? Thank you. San Fran. Now, for reasons unknown, Stein drove one block past Maple to Cherry Street.

The passenger then shot Stein once in the head. I said one block back. With the 9mm, took his wallet and car keys and tore away a section of his blood-stained shirt. So he's, I don't know why. Now, this passenger was observed by three teenagers across the street, and it was 9.55pm, and they called the police while the crime was happening.

Like they called them and they're like, this is happening. Oh my God. They observed the man wiping the cab down before walking away towards the Presidio, one block to the north. So two blocks from the crime scene, off was a Don Fork, responded to the call, observed a white man walking along the sidewalk and stepping onto a stairway leading up to the front yard of one of the homes.

And like, you know, saw him five, ten seconds. You just saw this person. but the radio dispatcher had alerted to be on the lookout for a black suspect so they drove past him without stopping. Oh, fuck. They had a mix-up said the suspect is black. But he wasn't. So they saw a white guy.

Was he ever black? The witnesses said? I don't know. Well, I don't think so. I don't have a transcript of their conversation. So we don't know who's at fault really, Dave, to be honest. Well, I hope someone was fired. Some one was definitely fired.

So they just kept going because that's not him. Now, the three teen witnesses worked with a police artist to prepare a composite sketch. of stars. Maybe, I mean they were American cops. Maybe they just assumed. Probably. Flash they were just cops. Yeah, so that sucks.

And so these teenagers who saw it, which is awful, and we're working with police to get an idea of what he looks like. Apparently, the San Francisco Police Department investigated an estimated 2,500 suspects over a period of many years. 2,500. 2,500 suspects. Isn't that insane? So that was in...

None of them white. That was the 11th of October. On the 14th of October, the Chronicle received another letter from the Zodiac, this time containing a swatch of Paul Stein's shirt tail as proof that he was the killer. That's why he took it. Yeah.

It also included a threat about killing school children or a school bus. And to do this, he wrote, Just shoot out the front tire and then pick off the kiddies as they come bouncing out. Which is weird. I mean, that's... What kind of slaves are kids going to be in his weird paramed? Yeah.

It doesn't make any sense, mate. But these messages written Oh, child slaves, yeah, of course. Benny, these aren't coded. These aren't coded. These are just letters. Just ramblings. Yeah. At 2pm on October 20th, so another few days later,

someone claiming to be the Zodiac called Oakland PD, demanding that one of two prominent lawyers, either F. Lee Bailey or Melvin Belly, again, fantastic names. Appear on the local television show AM San Francisco. Bailey wasn't available, but Belly did appear on the show. Sorry, I'm unavailable. Yeah, oh, sorry.

I'm in Barbados. We could call you. Nah, I'd prefer not. It's going to stop some school kids from getting shot. No. Look, I'm very busy. The lion's breaking up. Another peanut collata, please.

Sorry, got to go. He's having a good time on his holiday. So the host of the show appealed to viewers to keep the lines open. And eventually, someone claimed to be the Zodiac. Is that just a mean don't call in? Yeah, I'm guessing that's what he meant, like don't call. Please don't call him. And then someone claiming to be the Zodiac called several times and said his name was Sam.

Oh, you could probably hear a recording of that then. Maybe. Why don't know his voice sounds like? Belly agreed to meet with him, but the suspect never showed up. So this lawyer, he's like, I want to, I want you to put either of these two prominent lawyers on a TV show. Did you just want some free advice? It's so weird. It's so strange.

What are my chances of getting off on this? I don't know, Sam. Now, it would have been more like my neighbour's bush back in the backyards overgrowing on my fence. What am I right? Am I able to, can I just, can I trim it? What's on my side? Should they have to pay for depreciation of my trimmers? You know?

What kind of? Let's meet up and talk. Yeah, let's chat. So that was sort of the end of October. On November 8th, Zodiac mailed a card with a name. Another cryptogram consisting of 340 characters. The characters, this cipher or the cryptogram, has never been decoded. Numerous possible solutions have been suggested, but none have claimed, like, none have been proven to be definitive.

Right. So they've never cracked it. It's just so weird. So the first one could be cracked by, like, just two average people. We don't know their average. They could have been rocket scientists, Dave. But, like, there's people that dedicate their lives to codes. Do you know what I mean?

Like they're professors of that kind of thing. They couldn't get it. They can't work it out. Just like... Chirin. Like, um, angels and demons. Cheering? Cheering.

Oh, Alan Turing. Alan Turing. Angels and demons. You're talking about, um... Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks. Divinci Code.

Fuck, there we go. Jesus, the more famous one. Robert Langdon. Yes. Professor Langdon. Anyway. Um... Get him on the case.

Yeah, get him on the case. Um, on November 9th, the next day, the Zodiac mailed a seven-page letter. stating that two policemen stopped and actually spoke to him three minutes after he shot Stein. So after he... The taxi driver. So he was walking on the street and police stopped him and talked him and talked to him. Oh, so do they...

This is what I do if I was the police chief. Get everyone together and be like, who did you speak to three minutes after the crime? Yeah, but they probably wouldn't have taken down names. Like, you're just chatting to somebody. You don't have to... Yeah, but maybe you can remember them. Which reminds me on my way to work today. Oh, no.

I walked past a building as a cop walked out, and I was like, whatever. I kept walking and then I was like, where's her other cop? And the other cop was behind her, like, taking a guy, he had like cuffs on and they were like escorting him. And I was like walking next to them. And I was like, do I hang back? What do I do here? And so, yeah, why is the partner ahead of him? Well, she was sort of walking ahead.

She was plow on the path. Yeah, she was sort of clearing a path and getting to the divvy van to open the back. And the criminal behind has swung his hands around, has choked her partner to death with his cuffs. Yeah. Bled him out and then he comes for her. She's still clear on a path. She will not turn around for any reason. I mean, well, I saw the whole thing.

Very confronting. What's the protocol here? Do I stand out of the criminals way while they're on a murderous rampage or am I meant to walk ahead? I mean, I've only got five more minutes to get to work. I am really pushing it today. I've already used the murderer excuse before.

They won't believe you again. They are not onto it. I've been thinking about this. You know how he's, this topic. I've been thinking about this today. Good. Well, just while we've been talking. Mainly, yeah.

Oh, that's good. So he's collecting slaves to the afterlife. Makes sense he's got a driver now, right? Taxi driver. Taxi driver. The kids, so he's got a chauffeur, sort of. What were the other ones he's collecting? Just like teenage.

I don't know. Teenagers. I don't know if he's thinking like that. Right. Because if I was the cops, I'd be keeping a close eye on butlers. Bartenders, chefs. Chairs, chefs. Mades.

Yes. People with helpy skills. A plumber? A nurse, doctors. Helmothers? Help. Helpy. That's probably one of the cutest things you've ever said.

With helpy skills. How about podcaster? Is that useful? We are fine. We are so fine. He wouldn't not come for us. No, entertainment. No, but you don't need it.

Knowledge. You wouldn't go to a podcaster though for that, would you? That's a very good point. Yeah, that's true. You go to an entertainer. You'd go a musician. A decent comedian. Maybe that's what some of those kids were.

Maybe they were in a band or something. Child prodigies. Hmm. Yeah, probably. Could be. That's probably it. So that was November of 1969. And then there was like a few months of maybe he was on holiday.

Yeah, no, it's not summer there. It's winter. He doesn't like to operate in winter. It's summer for us. Oh, okay. The winter of love. I need to explain. playing seasons to you.

So up there, they're like, it's all topsy-turvy up there. Yeah, yeah, what? They have a white Christmas. It's cold at Christmas there.

That is weird. Isn't that weird? I'd love to be over in the snow right now. Yeah, it's very hot in here. We play cricket in the backyard and it's hot. They don't play cricket in December? Not at Christmas.

No. Whatever, what is it? January. What a world? Anyway. When do they play cricket? Probably never.

Oh. August, I guess. What a funny, what a funny place up there. August, if at all. Yeah. I guess we play baseball here. I'm sure there's probably... You are thinking of the Northern Hemisphere as being just America.

That's all it is. Although we were talking about America. In this case, we're talking about America. Very good point. Other parts of the Northern Hemisphere, i.e. Europe, would play cricket during their summer. Oh. So, yeah, July, August. around there.

Thank you and thanks for fielding these questions. That's seasons. So March of 1970, March 22nd, Kathleen Johns was driving from San. See, that's a pretty average name. Oh, yeah, I guess I never noticed the ones that are boys. Yeah, Kathleen John. It's still a nice, a solid name, but it's not, it's not, doesn't sound made up. Doesn't sound made up.

I believe her. Kathleen Johns. She was driving from San Bernardino to Petaluma. Definitely said those wrong. Sorry, guys. To visit her mother, and she was seven months pregnant and had her 10-month-old daughter beside her. Relax! While heading west on Highway 132,

a car behind her began honking its horn and flashing its headlights, and she pulled off the road and stopped, and the man in the car parked behind her, approached her car, and said he'd observed that her right rear wheel was wobbling and offered to tighten up the lugs for her. And she was like, oh my God, thank you. So after he finished, he drove off. Oh my God

He's like, see ya Thank God Yet when John's pulled forward To reenter the highway The wheel almost immediately came off the car So he's like loosened Instead of tight It's loosened

Right It's lefty, loosy, righty, tight We all know that zodiac And then he returned He almost did a really nice thing I almost was ready to get back on board Hang on side with relief Did you just say he returned

Oh he comes back Oh no What? It was all part of some sort of plan I thought it was gonna be good So he comes back It wasn't an innocent mistake He offers to drive out to the nearest gas station so she can get help.

But didn't she say, like, what the fuck, Matt? I was driving perfectly fine before you pulled over. He would have said it confidently like, oh, your wheels? I mean, I think this will probably. I hope this does the job. Anyway, all the best. And then her wheels come off. He's like, oh, I told you, your wheels fucked.

Would you guys ever pull over if someone was honking and flashing behind you? All right. I don't like the idea of it. We did it in a very similar situation. Out in the middle of nowhere at South Island of New Zealand, a couple of months. A couple of months ago, someone was flashing their lights behind us. And I knew why. So I kind of, I'm like, they kept.

Because you were drink driving? It was because I was, yeah, I was blind drunk and my head was out the window. And you're going, woo! And I was naked. And you were looking the wrong way. And I was throwing full bottles of beer out the window into their windshield. It was a horse. It was a horse.

Make it backwards naked on a horse Out the windows So I mean I had an inkling I'm out the horse window Beep beep I better know what this is about Yeah So you pulled the horse over

So you said, whoa there Oh my god Well we'll hear I'm out But I know what's wrong But yeah There was one of the hubcaps Was slightly loose And I knew this

Because I was following that car Earlier in the day So I could I could see that it looked like the wheel was wobbly, but it was just the hub, and I'd forgotten to put the hubcap back on. So they pulled up to say, your back wheels looking wobbly. Yeah. Yeah, it's just the hubcap.

Thank you very much. Did they offer to tighten it? But it was a very similar scenario. Did they murder you? And they didn't murder me, but they did wish me a really, really good trip. Well, that's nice. Yeah. God, Kiwi's are lovely.

Anyway, well, I'm glad you're alive I don't think I would ever pull over Why? No way My instinct was kind of like Unless I was at a service station or a town No fucking way I'm too trusting

I guess this is out in the middle of country roads If I'm in the middle of nowhere And someone's honking and beeping I'm gonna keep cruising until we hit somewhere It's witnesses I'm a very suspicious person I guess that makes sense I'm thinking like just normal roads

I probably would like Yeah this road I was almost in the middle of the bush Jesus Or like in the middle of the mountain Sort of awareness sort of area I'd panic But I wouldn't pull out Yeah, that's interesting.

I'd rather the wheel fall off than them kill me. I'm just saying, I'm just saying. Certainly into the future I'm going to have a, I think maybe a couple times about it. Because of this podcast? Yeah, totally. Jess just saved your life, Matt. Yay! I just apologise, but now I'm not sorry.

Anyway. Okay, so he's come back and after the drive. So I'll take you a gas station. She says, that'd be great, thanks. With the kid? So they get in the car. With her 10-month-old? No, she left the 10-month-old back at the car.

Yeah, she took the fucking 10-month-old, Dave. Well, someone might... You're going to leave her? You're going to leave her? She's going to fucking nappy. No. Well, knowing that he is the Zodiac, it probably is, I would leave the kid in the car. Leave the kid the car with the windows up.

You, monster. She's going to get warm and maybe, yeah. You'd leave the kid with the... No, you wouldn't go with him at all. Fair enough. That's probably the choice you'd make. Jesus. Well, thank God you can never be a mother.

Yeah, I wonder. So this is in the middle of nowhere. I don't know if that's going to help her particularly. I think either way, he's going to probably take her down. Does he know she know she? She's pregnant. She's seven months pregnant. It's probably pretty obvious.

So Dave's worried about the 10-month-old. What about the 7-month-old fetus mate? Well, she can't leave that in the car? Well, can't she? Well, hang on. I mean, you're telling the story, mate. Let me give birth prematurely or leave the baby in the car. So it can look after the 10-month-old.

Yes. No, the other way around. The 10-month-old looks after the baby. I know. That was the joke, you fuckhead. You're not leaving either of the child's there. Well, I'm not an idiot, and I wouldn't pull over. Hot and I'm getting grumpy.

Sorry, Dave. I'm sorry. Hey, I'm a bit offended. Sorry for calling you a fuck-head, but also, come on, mate. Well, can we, I need to find out that these guys are all right, please. I think I might be padding because I don't want to know if they get killed. During the ride, the car passed several service stations, but the man did not stop. For about 90 minutes, he drove back and forth around roadblocks.

Sorry, around back roads. Why, how do we know this day? Exactly. The 10-month-old. When John's asked why he wasn't stopping, he'd changed the subject. when the driver finally stopped at an intersection. That's a great sunset. What's over there?

Why aren't you stopping? How old's your kid? I already answered that three times. How, I've forgotten? I've got dementia. When the driver finally stopped at an intersection, Johns jumped out with her daughter and hid in a field. The driver searched for her using his flashlight,

telling her that he wouldn't hurt her before eventually he gave up. Unable to find her, he got back in the car and drove off. John's then hitched ride to the police station in Patterson. When she gave her statement... What I was going to say? How long do you wait before you go out and wave down a car? I'd be like, this freak is still around.

Yeah, what if it was his car? So firstly, like, he drives off and then he comes back, I'd be like, that's weird. But maybe you don't think, you don't be, feel... Well, maybe if he'd only just sort of pulled off and maybe he could have seen her in the rear view or something, that would make sense. Yeah.

But you're right. If he's already gone and then she's taking a few minutes later, that's really fucking... weird. What are you guys saying? If, like, the fact that he helped her with the wheel, drove off and then came back. That seems weird. Oh, yeah.

How does he know? Well, that's exactly it. I'm saying if he was, if he'd only just left and she pulled out as well, I could see her. Sorry, I'm with you completely yet. Where did you go in those, in that minute? I was thinking about how long I'd hide in the field before I wave down the car. Yeah, that's what I was thinking to. I'd probably think about at least 10 hours.

I'd think of that sun up. I'm sitting. Yeah, I'd wait to, was it darker this time? Probably. I'd wait to the light. If he, unless he's wearing a sack on his head, then it's... Ten month old makes it difficult. That makes it hard.

It's a tiny little kid. You got to feed it. You got to keep it quiet too. You got to feed it. Well, if it cries out, he might find you. That's probably the easiest bit. Feeding it? Yeah.

Do you reckon? Oh, yeah. It's 10 months old. She's got food on her. Could be on formula. Could be. Yeah. Like trying to measure out those little bits of powder.

Ugh. Anyway, so she makes it to a police station. She gives a statement to the sergeant on duty. And while she's doing that, she noticed the police. composite sketch of Paul Stein's killer and recognised him as the man who had abducted her and her child. What? Same dude. But isn't this everywhere in the news?

Watch out for this man. He's the Zodiac killer. When her car was found, it had been gutted and torched. So, like, they'd gone back to where her car should have been. So he went back and torched it. Whoa. How creepy is that? Which, again, then, I guess then means that he would have, like, backtracked.

So he could have definitely driven past her again where she was. now I'm creeping myself out creepy no thank you that's why you wait ten hours you gotta wait ten hours I reckon she must have waited quite a while because yeah probably yeah

or was very lucky I guess she was lucky he might also depends how long he looks for her because he might panic because it looks a bit weird if someone's on the side of the road like with a torch

that's true and your your pictures up around police say to the room possibly have a gun or whatever as well so they know what he looks like yeah well they've got an idea of what he

looks like, yeah. There's eyewitnesses. It's like, you're crazy that you, you know, and 40 years since no one's been like, oh, that looks a bit like my uncle in that year, actually. It's funny that you say nobody's done that, David. Oh, actually, well, with these things, as we always found. It's like, D.B. Cooper.

People always come out and be like, no, it's definitely my dad. My dad is D.B. Cooper. Exactly, right. I'd be a lot prouder about that one than this one. Someone on an email actually emailed in saying that they think their dad is D.B. Cooper. And then they wrote, but that's a story for another time. Oh, no.

No, that's the story for right now. Did you reply and say... Here's my number. Yeah. Call me right now. It's the DB Cooper hotline. Where are you? We will fly you to Melbourne.

Come here. We won't. We don't have that money. Patreon.com. I'm going to say from Dandingong or something. Yeah, then we could forget them here. So on October 27, 1970, Chronicle reporter Paul Avery,

who had been covering the Zodiac case, received a Halloween card signed with a letter Z. Z. Americans. You get it. Translation. We say Z. Wait, slow down.

Why do we say it? Anyway, nope. Because that's what it was originally, I believe. Great. Zed, Z. Signed with the letter Z and the Zodiac's cross-circle symbol. And handwritten on the card was the note. Oh, you're going to love this.

Peekaboo. You are doomed. Oh, wow. How fucking creepy is that. You definitely look behind you when you open that. Yeah. And he's just there like, hello. Freakabur.

Hey, sorry about that. the funny card. Just, I've been asking everywhere, but there's a hedge, and it's really growing over my yard now. I'm sorry that I had to bring it up in this way, but I just am not getting answers. Also, happy Halloween, I suppose. If you wrote it about it in the local paper, then maybe, you know, the council would act on it. Yeah. I hate negative press.

You know that. You know as well as anyone. You are doomed. You are doomed. It was taken pretty seriously and received it. They put it on the front page story. You were taking pretty serious. But I'm assuming it was either sent to the Chronicle office or, like, his home.

It's even creepy if it's to his home. Oh, because he knows his address. Yeah. Anyway, so they put the letter on the front page of the Chronicle of the newspaper. And soon after receiving this letter, Avery also received an anonymous letter, alerting him to the similarities between the Zodiac's activity and the unsolved murder of Sherry Joe Bates, which had occurred four years earlier at the City College in Riverside. more than 400 miles south of San Francisco.

He reported his findings in The Chronicle on November 16, 1970, but again, they're not really sure. But that attack, this is what happened to Sherry Joe. Another fantastic name. So four years earlier in 1966, 18-year-old Sherry Joe Bates was a student at Riverside Community College, and she spent the evening at the campus library until it closed about 9 p.m. And neighbors reported hearing a scream about 10.30 p.m.

She was found dead the next morning, a short distance from the library, between two abandoned houses that were set to be demolished for campus renovations so she's just like in this empty sort of space. The wires in her Volkswagen distributor cap had been pulled out. Dave, you drive the Volkswagen mate. Oh, my distributor cap is fine. For now.

I believe. I'm not a mechanic. She was brutally beaten and stabbed to death and a man's Timex watch with a torn wristband band was found nearby. The watch had stopped at 1224. But police believe the attack occurred much earlier. And then a month later on, in November of 1966, nearly identical typewritten letters were mailed to the Riverside Police

to the Riverside Police and the Riverside Press Enterprise, titled The Confession, and the author claimed responsibility for her murder, provided details of the client that were not released, the crime, that were not released to the public. And the author also warned that Bates is not the first and she will not be the last. On 13th of March, 1971, five months after Avery's article linking the Zodiac to the Riverside murder, the Zodiac mailed a letter to the LA Times, and in the letter he credited the police instead of Avery for discovering his riverside activity, but they are only finding the easy ones.

There are a hell of a lot more down there. So he did claim it. Right, but he said there's more. There's more. Creepy. But maybe you would say that, wouldn't you? Yeah, you'd be like, yeah, I'll do it, but who knows. but still, even though he's sort of claimed it,

the connection between Sherry Joe Bates and the whole area and the Zodiac kind of remained uncertain. There isn't a lot of... He could have just been... It is hard to take. Like we're saying, he could just be like, yeah, that was me. Yep. Take the word of a madman.

It sounds like sometimes you're just sort of fucking with him, right? Yeah, it does certainly feel like that. And also would help put them off the scent if they're... Closing in. If they think they are, and they're like then trying to draw, conclude, Like, they might be ruling people in and out suspects because they weren't, they couldn't have done certain murders, but if he didn't do them, you know, I'd just,

oh boy, it's very hot in here. It is very hot in here. A little while later, a postcard was sent to the Chronicle address to Paul Averly. Did they have a tow print on it? Yeah, had a toe print. Paul Averly, not his name, it's Avery, but he's sent it to Averly. Just a code. They believed it was from the Zodium.

and it appeared to claim responsibility for the disappearance of a woman called Donna Lass that had happened the previous September, so in 1970. Now, she was a nurse at the Sahara Tahoe Hotel and Casino, and she worked until about 2 a.m. on September 6. Later that same day, both Lass's employer and her landlord received phone calls from an unknown male, falsely claiming Lass had left town due to a family emergency. She was never found. Oh, but they think that the Zodiac claimed it. Yeah, well, he sort of, yeah, he claimed, well, a letter arrived, they think it's from the Zodiac, and it was claiming responsibility for this disappearance. Apparently they found a gravesite, but all that was actually found in there was a pair of sunglasses. There's no evidence.

They still don't know what happened to Dunelass. But he was like, me, so creepy. And may those rebounds rest in peace? May they? You wonder if it's like other people are going, I want to kill someone. I'm going to do it in his story. Yeah, I'll just, yeah, copy cats. And then they, like, I've got alibis for all the other ones.

It wasn't me. It's a free murder, maybe. Is that what the kind of thought you'd have, Dave? Yeah, Dave. No, I don't have that thought. So, um... I've never killed, and I'll never kill again. What?

That's my take on, I'll, I've killed before and I'll kill again. I've never killed and I'll never kill again. And the Vallejo Times Herald's story appeared on November 13, 1972. the Santa Barbara County Sheriff Office Bill Baker, another good name, postulated that the murders of a young couple in northern Santa Barbara County might have been the work of the Zodiac Killer.

Apparently on June 4th, 1963, high school senior Robert Domingos and fiancé Linda Edwards, not as good. Sunday in Spanish, Domingo. Domingo. They were shot dead on the beach, having skipped school that day

for senior ditch day. Hang on, they're seniors and their fianc, they get engaged. Jeez, Louise, the 60s, a different time. Henry the 8th, married a 14 year. I can't get a bloody date. Here they are, high school kids. Having a really fiance. When you bloody in the car making out as a teen,

you should have locked them down then. She locked it down. Should have locked them down. You should have proposed in that car. Damn it. In Sweet Valley High. Damn it! Anyway, so police believed that the assailant attempted to bind the victims,

but when they freed themselves and attempted to flee, the killer shot them repeatedly in the back and chest with a 22-caliber weapon. The killer then placed their bodies in a small shack and tried unsuccessfully to burn it down, which again, he's never set fire to things before. He's always doing something different, which, you know, you've got to admire.

You've got to admire in any kind of art, I suppose. Always pushing new boundaries. Trying new things and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. That's where the best art is made. Absolutely. I've always said that. That's where I'll learn it. This is the final Zodiac letter. So the Zodiac remained silent for nearly three years.

Didn't hear anything from him. And then The Chronicle received a letter from the Zodiac postmarked January 29, 1974, praising The Exorcist as the best satirical comedy that I've ever seen. Okay. All righty. The letter included a snippet of verse from the Mikado and an unusual symbol at the bottom that has remained unexplained by researchers.

And the Zodiac concluded the letter with a new score. A lot of his letters, he'd have a score, so he'd write his little symbol equals and whatever number it was, and then it would always say SFPD, so San Francisco Police Department. So this final score was me. So as in sign off, is that what you mean by score? What do you mean? What?

Score, like as in like a tally. Oh, sorry, a score of how many people is. killed. Sorry, I was thinking that you meant something else. When he immediately said score, you said a new score. I imagined that you meant a new cinema score.

He'd rewritten the music to The Exorcist. It was a new soundtrack. I think you were fine to quite apt. Of course you thought that. Of course you went straight to cinema score and not any type of sporting score. Yeah, I was on the right. You were going to say about it, right?

Yeah. The Exorc. The Exorc. And then he just writes to SFPD. He's just written out of a little music. I'm sure that's been done on CSI or something, but like a letter written, like in musical. Yeah. Oh, do you reckon?

You've only got... Probably. Anyway, he's concluded this final letter with me equals 37, SFPD equals zero. So he's claiming 37. He's claiming 37. But is that jumping? wildly from the last few letters?

I think, well, I think so. But, like, there's also a lot that we don't know about or that aren't attributed to him. I think the last letter that I've sort of got here was like 13 or 14 people, and now it's jumped up to 37. Is he accusing the SFPD of never killing someone? I think that is offensive. That's wildly wrong.

I think in a way, look, I think you're right, but he probably also means, like, I've killed 37 people and you've caught zero zodiacs. Yeah. I've written the music to 37. films and you haven't scored any. You idiots. Now, suspects, like we were sort of talking about.

Great. I've already named a couple. Jess Perkins. No. Well, just her, really. A number of suspects have been named. There's a book called Zodiac and it suggested that Arthur Lee Allen was a suspect based on circumstantial evidence. A letter sent to the Riverside Police Department was typed on a roller typer with an elite type. The same brand found during a February 1991 search of Alan's residence.

So he had the same typewriter. He owned and wore a Zodiac brand wristwatch. And Alan lived in the area and worked minutes away from when one of the first victims, Ferran lived and where one of the killings took place. He kind of lived in the area. Ooh, we're on to you. That sounds pretty... Did he look like the people?

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I want to know. I just thought he was never seen. Well, this is all much later. By a living person. So it feels like just get the lady with the kids. kids. Yeah, a bunch of people have gotten away.

Go finger him. And then tell us who did it. Dave was so proud of that. He loved that. Sorry, score me one, please. And this is all, yes, okay, I'll write you a song then, shall I? Thank you. You're a fucking idiot.

This all sort of happened later. Like, that was in 91 when they searched his residence. And then in 2002, so they took this seriously. Yeah, kind of. And then in 2002, they developed a partial DNA profile from the saliva on stamps and envelopes from the Zodiac's letters. And they compared this partial DNA to the DNA of Arthur Lee Allen, but they didn't really get much.

And then a DNA comparison was also made with the DNA of a guy called Don Cheney, who was Alan's former close friend and the first person to suggest Alan may be the Zodiac killer. And since neither test resulted, neither test result indicated a match, Alan and Cheney were just sort of let go and it can't be stated definitively of the DNA from the Zodiac matched anybody. So, has anyone ever posited the theory that it was more than one person? That those two were working together?

I think so, yeah. So it's actually still kind of being looked into, which I find so fascinating. So in April of 2004, their police department marked the case as inactive, citing case load pressure and resource demands. And they sort of, they effectively closed the case. However, they reopened their case sometime before March of 2007. In 2007, a man named Dennis Kaufman. claimed that his stepfather, Jack Terrence, was the Zodiac. Jack Terrence, good name.

Good name for a killer. Yeah. Kaufman turned several items over to the FBI, including a hood similar to that worn by the Zodiac. According to news sources, the DNA analysis conducted by the FBI on the items was deemed inconclusive in 2010, so they got nothing. Damn.

In 2009, a lawyer named Robert Tarbox, who, in August of 1975, was disbarred by, the California Supreme Court for failure to pay some clients. So he's sort of like a dodgy lawyer, said that in 1972, a merchant mariner walked into his office and confessed to him that he was the zodiac killer. The seemingly lucid seaman,

whose name Tarbox would not reveal, due to confidentiality, described his crimes briefly, but persuasively enough to convince Tarbox that he was actually talking to the actual zodiac. Great, but he won't name him. He won't name him. Still won't.

Cheers, mate. Cheers, thanks for that. Yeah. That sounds like bullshit. So he never turned up again. He never spoke to him again. So he's like, okay. But the only reason that he came forward with this information is to clear the name of Arthur Lee Allen,

because at that time people were like, oh, it's Arthur Lee Allen's Zodiac. And he was like, no, he's not. I spoke to the Zodiac in 1972. Who was he then? I won't tell. Okay. Okay, maybe that makes sense. So it was a little bit weird.

But, you know, The guy who wrote the book of Zodiac, or sorry, Arthur Graysmith, he wrote several books about Zodiac. He said that the story was entirely plausible. So, who knows? And then retired police handwriting expert, like, get a life, dude. Lloyd Cunningham. I like this guy. He worked on the Zodiac case a lot.

He added that they gave me banana boxes full of Alan's writing, and none of his writing even came close to the Zodiac, nor did DNA extracted from the envelopes. So they were just sort of saying it's not this guy, Arthur. Lee Allen. If he wrote his own letters. Who knows? Could have had a monkey. Banana boxes? Oh.

How do you get banana boxes? Hello. Very interesting. On February 19, 2011, America's Most Wanted featured a story about the Zodiac Killer, and a picture has recently surfaced of a known Zodiac victim, Darlene Ferren, and a man who closely resembles the composite sketch, which they've formed based on eyewitness's descriptions.

So they have a photo of Darlene and a guy who looks like the Zodiac killer. And so they've sort of put that photo out there. So was the photo of her helping catch him? Because he killed her. He's in it. He's in the photo. Oh, so he knew her. That's what they think.

Maybe. It's a guy who looks a bit like their composite picture. So maybe. Have you seen that photo? I haven't. I wonder if it is him. I know. Well, we don't know.

They still don't know. Police are still hoping someone can identify that photo. So that never, that didn't pay off. That didn't pay off. I sure they got a lot of calls, but nothing. Not as yet. When was that though? That was in 2011.

That wasn't that long ago. It's crazy. It's crazy, Dave. It's absolutely insane. Former California Highway Patrol officer Lyndon Lafferty said the Zodiac Killer was a 91-year-old man whom he called by the pseudonym George Russell Tucker. Why, it depicts such a complicated pseudonym. This is so good, too.

Just call him Greg. Using a group of retired law enforcement officers called the mandamus 7, Lafferty, discovered Tucker and a cover-up for why he was not, like, pursued or why he wasn't investigated. But then Tucker died in February of 2012 and was not named because he was not considered a suspect by police. So, who knows, maybe he got away. He was, that guy did think he was 91 at the time of the killings, right? Yeah, he was 91 at the time.

It's now 137. Is that true? He thought it was a 91? No. No. Okay. In February of 2014, it was the last one. It was reported that a man named Louis Myers, such a good name,

had confessed to a friend in 2001 that he was the Zodiac Killer after learning that he was dying from the cirrhosis of the liver. So he requested that his friend, Randy Kenny, go to the police upon his death. Myers died in 2002, but Kenny allegedly had difficulty getting officers to cooperate and take his claim seriously. So there are several potential connections between Myers and the Zodiac Killer. So Myers attended the same school as victims David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen, the first two. Went to the same school as there.

Polyosiris. Polys Iris. He also allegedly worked in the same restaurant as victim Darlene Ferren. He had access to the same sort of military boots whose prints were found at the Lake Beriesa crime scene. Access. He had access to boots. He knew a store on the high street that sold them. He had access to boots.

This does sound good. During the 1971 to 1973 period where no Zodiac letters were received, Meyers was stationed overseas with the military. Kenny says that Myers confessed he targeted couples because he had a bad breakup with a girlfriend. While officers associated with the case are skeptical, they believe the story is credible enough to investigate. Isn't that fun?

We're not going to, but it could. It could. But the same year, so that was February 2014 that it was all reported that Louis Myers had said this. In May of 2014, a book written by Gary Stewart was released, claiming his biological father, Earl Van Best Jr., was the Zodiac Killer, without any confirmed evidence. But he read a whole book on it.

My father, Earl Van Best Jr. He could have done this. He could have done that. He could have. He was not born in the year, but he could have been. He could have done it. So, basically, we get to the end there with no solution. Are you telling me that a case that hasn't been cracked

in over 40 years, 50 years, hasn't been cracked by you and your report that you researched last night? How do you know it was last night, mate? That one of those moments. I've been working on that for weeks. I did it last night. That was one of those moments. How did you know it was last night?

We never released that information to the public. Wow, that... Jess has said earlier in the episode that she was working on the last night. And it was scary because I was home alone. That's right, circumstantial evidence. Yes. That call came from inside the building.

There's a pay phone in my house. So there we go, gents. That is my report on the Zodiac Killer. Thank you very much, Jess. Thank you to everyone that suggested that. I hope that we reported on it, but still didn't answer any questions. I'm so sorry if you listened to that at night, but also... I'm sorry.

It's what the people want. You knew the risks. Yeah, like you literally saw the title. When you download the episode that's called The Zodiac Killer, you probably thought, oh, what's this episode? Is this a sequel to the Wiggles episode? Yeah, this is going to be nice and lighthearted. I want to hear Jess talk about dance.

some more. Well, at the end of every episode, we'd like to thank you for listening, but also a big shout out to the people that brought you this episode. And those are the Patreon supporters. Patreon.com slash do go on pod. If you want to get involved, you get little rewards for helping keeping the show running. And, of course, one of those bonuses is if you pledged a certain amount, we will give a shout out directly to you for sponsoring this episode.

Another one is a bonus episode, which was released last week. That's right. It's a fucking mess. but it's the kind of thing you can enjoy too. I will enjoy it because I wasn't there on the bonus. But anyway, there's a bit for me at the start anyway. So we were all there in spirit. But we'd like to thank this week.

We get to thank a patron supporter each, and I would like to thank the person that makes me feel good at night. Wow. When I go to sleep, I feel like the world is a good place because I know that Bradley Bucknell exists. Thank you, Bradley. Well, I would also like to thank the person who makes me weak at the knees. Oh, it's Cameron Weeks.

Oh, Cameron Weeks at the Knees. Cameron, Weeks at the knees. I love him. Thank you, Cameron. Some great names this week. Almost as good as the names in our episodes. In their report, yeah. So you got Cameron Weeks, Bradley Bucknell, but I got the best of all.

What do you got? This may be our best listener name. Oof. It's a huge call. It's a bigish call. But let me know what you think. Becka Buck Becca Buck

Oh Becker Buck Bradley Bucknall and Becca Buck They should meet and marry Buck and Buck and Buck is a sweet Like detective show name Buck and Buck and Buck

And Buck and Buck Oh maybe the two bucks The two bucks Buck and Bucknall Bucknull and Buck There it is Bucknell and Buck Yeah that sounds good

You guys should solve crime Slash Fall in Love Bucknull and Buck I just scored it Good score It's a great score Yeah Becca Bacca Bucke's a gun.

Yep. On your Becker Buck. Thank you so much, Becker Buck. Becker Buck. You know what I bet she's doing right now? Going, stop saying my name like that. She's like, leave me alone. I know I've got a great name.

And also I don't want to marry Bradley Bucknell. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. And why are we cops on TV now? Jesus, Becker. Come on, mate. I've really turned. Oh, classic Perkins.

Dave, let's get out of here. It's so fucking hot. It is. It is very hot. Hopefully where you are, you're in a cool temperate climate. If you're anywhere near snow, Can you do us a favor and just run out and jump into it? God.

Oh, my God. Do it with the headphones on. We're basically doing podcasts in a sauna right now. Like, it's a small room. It would genuinely be 45 degrees in here. Celsius. Do you think it's that hot? Yeah, I reckon.

No, not 45. No, I don't know it's that hot. I finally there was a way we found out. Frankly, there was a way. If I think there was some sort of Uber thing where you like order someone to come in and check the temperature of your room. Just get a thermometer, you dickhead. No, no, no. Come on.

Let's get out of here. All right, guys. you so much for listening. We'll be back next to with another report. Getting contact on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook, you find us, do go on pod on all those things. And of course the Patreon. If you want to keep the show running, rock and roll and please send in

your support to patreon.com slash do go on pod. Email as well if you're not on social media, which are not some people aren't. Do go on pod at gmail.com. If you want to tell us why your dad may or may not be D.B. Cooper, we'd love to hear from you. Or the Zodiac. If you have

any leads on the Zodiac and you want to pass pass them on to us rather than the police you can do that. Do that. Do that. But until next week I will say... Just send them to the police, please. Yeah, that'll be good. Maybe CC us in there.

That'd be great. I assume you've report crimes via email. I think so. Thanks for the support everyone and we'll see you next week. Goodbye. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are

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