Do Go On - 81 - Glasgow Ice Cream Wars

Episode Date: May 10, 2017

This sounds like a silly topic, but it's pretty dark. It includes drugs, guns, murder, court room dramas and a bit of ice cream, I guess. CHECK IT OUT! Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serengy Amarna 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you've somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. And welcome to another episode of DoGoOn. My name is Dave Warnocky and I'm sitting here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins.

Hello, thanks for having me. Hello, thank you so much for joining us at this dinner party. Are you talking to me or who's joining us? Me, I think. I said thanks for having me. Yeah, Matt is joining us. It's also great to be here. Okay, wait.

Who's hosting this? Oh, my God. Well, I think Jess must be, Dave's great, it's great to be here. You said, thanks for coming. Yep. Yeah, it's your other host. All right, question.

If we were to go out to a restaurant, what name would we book it under? Stuart. I think it would be whoever's making the call. Yeah, good call. Okay. And who would make that call? I've imagined probably me.

So, Stuart. Great, good. So I was correct. We just need to know. And also, I just feel like Warnockie, you're going to have to be like, W-A-R, no, A-R-N-E-K-E. Yes, and my mum. So Perkins or Stewart's going to be the easier one.

My dad's name is Martin, and our family for my whole life always books things under Martin because it's very difficult to spell Warnocky. And he often goes into his place so they say, hello, Mr. Martin. Oh, nice. It's gone too far. The lie has become the truth. Yeah. I think that's fine. I'd just be, I'd be happy to live in that truth.

Don't you reckon? When I was in Bali, they called me Miss Jess, and I loved it. Miss Jess. Miss Jess. Good morning, Miss Jess. I was like, fuck you. I am Miss Jess. All right.

I feel like I'm having deja vu. I've definitely said that before. I was that you mean. Yeah, I'm sure I have. I'm not, I just, I felt like I dreamt that. Either on or off the podcast. I've definitely told you that adorable story. It feels like a very dreamy moment.

That's just what it's like and we're all back in the studio together. It's so good to be back. People have been enjoying us being back in the studio. notice we've got a few tweets and stuff people saying god damn it i'm glad you're back in the studio i wonder why that is maybe because the sound quality is better but also possibly because they don't have phoma of the people who got to watch us live no fomomar it's also easy to follow we're not playing to the room as much not miming not constantly referencing matt's regret face yeah we've people are keen to see that i'm starting to get keen to see what that looks like multiple tweets

saying can you somehow show us matt's regret's face but it's difficult to ask matt to pose in a photo he doesn't know what he's doing well uh You need to take a photo and then take a second photo seconds later, because if you'd take a photo of me, I'm pretty sure I'll regret that. Yeah, what we need is we need to hand you an item like a pineapple and then say, yeah, do something with that. And then you like, for some reason, hump it. And then you go on.

Almost certainly. Oh, no, that would be his go to. I didn't. You were the one doing all the humping on the live shows. Yeah, I would hump a pineapple and I would have no regret face. There it is. That's the difference. That's a difference between Matt 9.

We're very different Give me an object I'll hump it Any Just give him an object I don't want to give Just has handed me What's that

That's a bottle of water Humpet Jess is hung over She wants that back Dave I don't think she wants it back anymore After I've been through with it

Oh Yeah thanks I'm a little bit hungover I like to call that Doing a Matt Stewart though Now Do you have a regret face Yeah

From your night out Yeah Yeah No regrets You're at a dress up party? Was it a dress up party? Theme.

80s. Nice. Matt dressed as me as a baby. But everybody at the party was like my age or younger. And it wasn't the 1880s. I shouldn't say that. Not the 1880s.

But I was also like none of you were alive in the 80s. So there's no nostalgia here. Like you just wanted to wear fun clothes, which is fair, I guess. Great. And so the fun clothes, let's describe your fun outfit, Jess. The fun.

I went as... Fun outfit, I'm guessing. The west side of the... Berlin Wall. Oh. So like this... Two of us and we went as the Berlin Wall. It was very fun.

So they went as the East? Mm-hmm. And they were more Soviet-style wall. Which was funny actually because we wrote East and West on them and West was written like kind of like on the side and like kind of cool and then East was like very straight and regimented. It was quite funny. We're making political commentary.

Just in case they forgot what side of the wall they were on. Yeah. Do you know whereabouts, um, across Germany were you? Probably in Berlin Yeah We're talking the Berlin wall Yeah I reckon it would have been in Berlin

Yeah probably So yeah that's what I did last night Because I'm fun And that's fun I don't know where the wall is I think we left it there Oh so you didn't have like a time Where everyone started to tear it down

And celebrate Mr Gorbachev Tear down this wall And then David Hasselhoff was there I said we should have had a third person To be David Haslehov But a few people did did make those jokes to us and we're bloody the life of the party.

Oh yeah, I bet you would have been. Every time did you react like it was the first time. Like, oh, fuck you're funny. Yeah, of course I did. I didn't know many people at the party, so I was trying to be friendly and make... Oh, that's fun. Did you, did the wall fall down in the end? The wall fell down.

The wall came off so I could boogie. And the wall came down. Dum, doom. Anyone? All the way down. I told you we weren't alive in the 80s. Yeah. I picked that one of him.

Oh no, that probably was 80s. Well, no, because the Berlin Wall came down in 89. So if it was about the Berlin Wall, it was probably in the 90s. I don't know what that was about. I'm not going to Google it. I know that will piss you right off. Yep. Let's just go with the flow.

Might not even be rid of the actual lyrics. Hey, let's talk about some other things that are happening. Before we jump into the episode, we've got to talk. There's some exciting developments on our Patreon account. Even more exciting than Jess dressing as a wall? Get out of town. Well, for a price, Jess will dress as any object you love. That's not true.

Roove, ceilings, fences. She'll do it all. Yeah, that's what people would suggest. Wouldn't be anything creepy. A creepy roof. Oh, look at that sleazy roof. And for a price, I'll hump any object you send me. Any object.

A letterbox. You'll do some humping? I want to want my price by the hour is. Humming for a whole hour. Oh, my God. Wow. What's your... Starting news, that is it.

On our Patreon, we give out, so, rewards, like bonus episodes and shoutouts and stuff on the show, tickets to live shows if you support us on Patreon. But we also have an ongoing goal, which we haven't had one for a while because we eclipsed our $1,000 a month goal. Thank you so much. We've set up a $2,000 a month goal, and it involves ink and the skin of Matt and Jess, but not me because I only hump. I hump for cash He refused to be involved in this Which only makes me want him to be involved in it more Yeah

Yeah So it yeah it means if once we hit that target Assuming we ever do It means that Either Jess or I will get a tattoo Because of the tattoo episode Episode 18 Yeah

We talked about how you two have tattoos And I don't have one yet I've got a half-finished one And I've already got a dumb tattoo so I don't need this I don't need this So once we get there, we're going to put it up to the vote to the listeners to see... Who gets the tattoo? Who gets a man, Jess?

And imagine we'll do a live stream of the screaming, the squirming. Yeah. Yep. And I haven't mentioned that to my parents who are quite anti-tattoos. Oh, that's good. Are you trying to... Oh, they listen as well, so they'll find out this way now. Sorry, Mom and Dad.

You're tempting people to vote for you, Jess, with that. Yeah, I want people to vote for me. Yeah, because their parents will not be happy. They'll not be happy. Maybe we should run a campaign. pain where both of you say why you should be voted for, why you should get the tattoo. I'm going to go to the populist angle.

I'm going to also let the people vote for what the tattoo is of. So I'm just, I'm basically, I'm just a people pleaser. And it'd be fun if it was like some sort of reference from the show or anything. A photo of me? A photo of Dave's Tiny Tush. Would you get our names? Maybe.

I think I'm pretty much open. I think I'm pretty much open to anything. Did you get Jess and Dave forever? I reckon I would. I want that so much. I reckon I probably would. But four, number four. An EVA.

Yeah. I'd, I think. For Eva? I'd basically get anything that wasn't, obviously not the kind of tattoos that Dave would get in a spare time. Only generally positive or neutral tattoos, not anything too negative about any.

So nothing political. You know, positive political. It could be part of the power. Is that positive? Viva La Revolution? Yeah, Vival a revolution, I guess. What about just, I love politics? Politics is okay by me, and a picture of me thumbing myself.

Thumbing, ooh. As in putting a thumb at me. It's slightly different to how you thumb, Dave. So yeah, that's our stretch goal. $2,000 a month. And well, I think... We've got some beyond that as well. If we go up beyond that, there's one where we'll do a second bonus monthly episode,

Patreon episode. So we do obviously do the weekly ones And now we also do one monthly for the patrons Or whatever, puffsons And then a big goal Which is the one that's most exciting to me Is if we hit this target This is probably a fair way

Phenomenal amount of money Bit out of reach Or you know, you know Dream big or whatever But if we get to that We're going to organise a tour of America What's that? You didn't say the dollar

That's going to include Or what's the dollar? It's 7,000 of them 7,000 So it means will go, I think the ones we'll lock in and then we'll see if other people are interested elsewhere, but I would imagine it'll be... Hang on, Matt's just tour planning.

I'm tour planning. Yeah, we've not discussed this. I want to, well, I want to get to New York City. I think... Madison Square Garden, hello. California, I think we, people seem to be in order over there. But I think Ohio is got to be a lot of order. Yeah, we've got to go.

We talk about Ohio so much. Maybe Texas, but yeah, I think, I don't know, none of that's locked in. but that's just what I assumed. And that's in the future, yeah. Pennsylvania? People seem to like it in Pennsylvania. Do you mean Transylvania? Go penguins.

Them vampire penguins. Guys, I'm kidding. I know that Pennsylvania and Transylvania. I know Transylvania. You know, I was a joke. I thought you were referencing when I fucked that up a while ago. I thought you were going for a tour of Romania. Yeah, I was going for that.

Let's do it. I'm into that as well. So we're not far off the $2,000. there's actually not too far to go. The tattoo could happen. The tattoo could very... In the coming months. Very easily happen.

But only with your help, dear listeners. I kind of want to win because I'm competitive. But I also would be pretty happy to see Jess get that tattoo. Yeah. Because you know, well, because I want a tattoo anyway. You want it. And I think my reactions would be pretty funny because I'm a little bit of a sook. So live streaming, that would be entertaining at least.

What I like... The idea I like the most, though, is because Dave, doesn't want to do it at all is for him to get it. Absolutely. And I imagine that... Would you get Jess and Matt forever? I think I prefer I love politics. Interesting.

All right. Well, to each their own, I guess. Anyway, should we get into this week's report? Okay, great. But, okay, I just want people to maybe tweet in some ideas for tattoos. That'd be awesome. Yeah, it'd be so fun. Photos.

Someone actually sent one in just because they're listening to old episodes. They're listening to the tattoo one and they send in it their tattoo. And I don't fully understand. understand what it is, but I think it's like a Pikachu Goh, Pokemon. It was slow poke. And it had swag written on its chest and it had a... On a t-shirt.

And it had a mug of beer. Great. Great. I loved it. That's so good. I also thought it was fantastic. I googled pink cartoon character with swag on his chest. I'm like, it's obviously a thing.

And then I'm like, hang on now. I think this is... I think this is customized. Wow. It took me a little while. I'm pretty dumb. But, yeah. No, you're old. I'm old.

I was born after the Pikachu generation. It's a different time. It's a different time. Different time. But please... When did kids play the Pokemon? It's been going for over 20 years and it's still really popular. It's amazing.

But anyway, Patreon.com slash do go on pod if you want to contribute. They will get a tattoo. Maybe I'll get a tattoo. But you've got to win me over. You've got to win me over. Tweet me out, Dave Warnocky. All right, we're going to jump into... Really?

You're over to it. That's fun. Okay. Jump into this week's episode. and it is Matt the man Stuart. All right, here's the question. Oh, he's straight on.

Okay, well... I love it. What is your... Fuck your intro, Dave. Matt's in. Oh, sorry, you were still... No, no, no, go for it. I thought you'd finish.

Take it away, Matt the man. I was just going to say that Matt's going to do a report. Okay. And I'm done. Great. Off you go, Matt the man. That is this sweet intro. Thank you.

I think they're ready for me now. What is your favorite food-related war? The pizza war. Your favorite food-related war? The Cannot. Holy war. That's a couple of good ones. Dave's had nothing so far.

A cookie. I can't think of other words for war. If you can chuck a place in as well, place, food wars. I was just going to say chicken versus beef, which side are you on? Neither. Vegetarian. Cola wars? Because we've covered it, Matt.

Yeah, been there down that champ. We love the wars. The place and food war. Melbourne coffee wars. Oh, good one. Yeah, something like that. It's not that. The Sydney Coffee Wars.

No, it's not like coffee is wrong. It's not in Australia. Not in Australia. Whereabouts? It's in the UK. And specifically in the UK. Scotland. The Scottish.

And what food is it? Hagus Wars. It's a dessert and it's a city. The Edinburgh Black Pudding Wars. The Glasgow... Yes. Pavelova Wars. Glasgow Cheesecake.

The Glasgow Cake War. Broader and different. The Glasgow dessert wars Oh okay Glasgow frozen yogurt Battle Broader The Glasgow

Ice cream wars So I was kind of close with frozen yogh You were Excellent Okay Glasgow ice cream How much fun does this sound A lot It isn't

I was so excited by the name I put this up to the vote right Yeah And it won in an absolute landslide The biggest landslide yet. I did all UK topics, all British topics this time. They were, the one I was quietly hoping for, the sex pistols, got 7% of the vote. Oh, wow.

In a three-horse race. Doctor Who came second with 19%. But people ask for that all the time. Yeah, I know. 19%. Guys, you blew it. Because, honestly, I've seen about 10 tweets saying, how about history of Doctor Who? Yeah, I think that's in a half a couple times.

Sorry, Hoovians. Glasgow Ice Cream Wars With over 75%. Do you think they also just liked the name? It's going to be. I reckon it'd be the one that people are like, I don't know what that is, but it sounds great. I really, I was expecting Doctor Who to win.

Oh, actually, I didn't know who would win, but I thought it would be closer. Yeah, wow, that is a landslide. Anyway. Tell us about these Glasgow Ice Cream Wars. It does sound fun. Okay, wait, I have a question first. Okay, we go to an ice cream shop.

What's your go to? Oh, cherry. Really? Love cherry ice cream. Interesting. Or pistachio. Hello, you are a fancy man. That is fancy man.

Matt, what are you going to? He wasn't born in the 80s, that man. They did not exist. He was in the afflueneas too. One pistachio, please. Fuck off, mate. Matt. We don't talk your language here in the poor suburbs.

Go to the ice cream. Growing up, it was always a double scoop. Boisenberry swirl, peppermper, Chock Chip. Pepperman chock chip. Wow. But peppermint doesn't go with anything else, I don't think. Those two definitely don't go together.

You're having two different meals in one cone. When I was a kid, I was mad for rainbow, obviously. I'm not an idiot. Which turns out is... Caramel? Caramel. I was also mad for rainbow. Love rainbow.

Every time. One time, I had... Actually, this is bubble gum. There was... When we went on a holiday, I got a bubblegum ice cream every day. Because of course... I did. Of course I got an ice cream every day. And it was green bubblegum.

And then one day I did a green poo. So. Oh, no. Thank you so much for sharing that story. And it kicked off. And this was last week. It kicked off the beach ice cream wars. In 1999.

I would definitely be a peppment chalk chip. But also, like, on the, you know, the ice cream chain Messina, happy to be sponsored by them if they want to jump on board. Happy to. So they're a big chain now. Yeah, there's a chain of them. Because they're also, they team up with Tim Tam as big. Oh, yeah, true.

and they're really good. But they do a salted caramel and white chocolate that I tell you what, it's a bloody game changer. It's so good. Anyway, I digress. Do tell us about the Glasgow Asking Wars about a family that couldn't agree on three flavors. Man, I wish it was more fun than this. Anyway, I'm taking it down.

Let's just do it. But it veers away from the Ice Cream Wars somewhere along the line. The most famous part of this story is a more specific thing. But anyway, let's get through it. It's funny, though, because one of the guys... This is what you voted for. A couple of listeners suggested this topic. Connor Jamison, at Connor B. Jamerson on Twitter.

And he tweeted saying, You have to do the Glasgow Ice Cream Wars. Seriously, the coolest thing ever. And then a follow-up tweet, well, except for all the brutal murder, which is less cool. Jess, it's a murder one. But that's less cool.

Yeah, but brutal murder, okay, I'm in. But that, like, the first, I don't remember seeing the second one, but the first tweet I replied to my, this is great. It sounds so good. I'm looking forward to it. I just was not expecting it to be what it is. Anyway, and also Carlos Cruz at Los underscore Cruz underscore, whose birthday boy is this, who's birthday boy?

Birthday boy Is this week His birthday boy is this week His birthday boy is this week Oh He's yet to know I've ruined a surprise there But he's getting a boy

Oh It's a boy Los Cruz I think what I wanted to say there Was that he's the birthday boy this week But somehow I don't know what happened Anyway in Glasgow In the early 1980s

Ice cream vans Mainly sold ice creams What? But they also sold other grocery items. So they were basically like a mobile convenience store. Which I love the idea of.

They need to do that more. Yeah, it is kind of cool idea. In those years, crime gangs started using a very enterprising way to deal drugs and other items, such as stolen goods. They used these ice cream vans as a front. So as well as buying

a chalk top ice cream, you could also get some toilet paper, some dishwashing liquid, a bit of heroin and a stolen stereo system. Oh, a bit of everything. You bought them all, did you get a discount? You did, yeah, yeah. And a petrol discount also. Oh, great.

Yeah, you've got to get those four cents a liter. To other countries do that. That wasn't meant, that was a bit of foreshadowing there accidentally. Because of this, rival gangs started to fight for the control of the lucrative ice cream van roots. So, I mean, all this is fun. This is probably what Connor was talking about, how it's like people, big gangster guys fighting over ice cream roots. This is, you know, a funny image. That's pretty funny.

Many of these lucrative routes were in housing estates. I saw an interview with a woman who used to drive in one of these ice cream vans. She talked about when she tried to start selling ice creams in an estate that already had a team of vans servicing it. And the day after she started, one of the vans basically just tailed her wherever she went around the estate. Whenever she stopped, they stopped and sold ice creams right next to her. And then she'd move to another spot. They'd stop right behind her. So just basically cutting her market share down.

But I imagine that to the public, it looked like, oh, they have foreseen such a demand that they've sent out to ice cream. So to her, she'd be like, oh, it would make you feel a bit crazy. And everyone else's like, oh, ice cream van. Yeah, awesome, too. Great rain. Great rain. Wow.

Yeah, so the back half of her cue would just go to him, I suppose. Yeah, exactly. And then they'd probably go, thanks for making that so easy. Yeah, whereas she's like, ah, you're really making it hard for me to make a living here. But it's also hard for the people tailing to make a living because they're also only making 50%. I guess the thing is they're in a wider business,

like a gang of them, and they can afford to, rather than letting her move into their area, they'll just pressure people out. And yeah, so it is, I guess there's a short-term loss for that van, but with the long-term gain of fucking other people out, fucking them out, what? That's an example of some pretty full-on but relatively harmless intimidation tactics. Full-on and harmless?

Pretty full, wouldn't you call it a bit full-on? Yeah. If you're just following a business around... It is unexpected. It's full-on, but it's compared to what I'm about to talk about. You have forged out of some sort of murder. In 1984 in the east of Glasgow, infighting between rival operators of the vans was reaching boiling point. The intimidation tactics were becoming violent and gangs were shooting up rival.

ice cream vans windshields with sawn off shotguns to try and move them off their route. Yep, that's definitely escalated. Yeah, it seems like it's... And this brings us to the most infamous story of the Glasgow Ice Cream Wars. Andrew Fat Boy Doyle...

Yes, yes. Fat boy was his nickname. Yes! Oh, it wasn't his birth name. No, it wasn't his birth name. But apparently that was his nickname to friends and enemies alike, according to the...

I watched this show last night from the... from 20 years ago about this part of the ice cream wars there was a Channel 4 show called Trial and Error and that's where that lady told that story as well but he goes yeah fat boy

to his enemies and friends alike which I'm like, oh that's cool when a nickname can cross boundaries like that can be endearing but also offensive Yeah only my mates call me fat boy not anymore fat boy fuck damn it

so he was an 18 year old van driver just a young guy to stay out of school probably wasn't fat at all he was he was he large was he large lad well the guy in the reenactment in this show was chubby okay

I wouldn't I call it he wasn't morbid sure right but I imagine it's a slippery slope if you're driving an ice cream van yeah that's right but it so apparently he'd drive the van but then he'd have like a school girl work in the back of the van selling the ice creams So he's just really the driver.

But an intimidation campaign was waged against him, but it wasn't to intimidate him off his route, rather to get him to start distributing drugs on his route. But he refused. He's like, I'm not interested. He would have said in a Scottish accent, though, Dave, which Jess would show you how to do. Okay, I need to get, I got to get into it.

Well, it's either Sean Connery or you and McGregor. Also, you're fat. I'm not interested. That was much better than expected. Yeah, that was pretty good. I think that was fine. I think everyone knew what you were doing there and could understand what you said.

As opposed to most people who speak with an actual Scottish accent, a lot harder to suffer. A wee fatty. It's a wee fatty. The Glasgow accent is sick. It's so good. But there were times I have to rewind. That's Billy Connolly.

So they went subtitling this English program. No, they weren't. Yeah, I love that accent. I don't know if you guys know this, but Stuart's actually a Scottish name. Is it now? I don't know if I've mentioned that. You've not? We haven't talked about your ancestry.

This would be, you know how I often bring up ads from before you guys were born? Yeah. And I'm like, well, how do you not remember this? Yeah. Well, this one might be one of those. It was an ad for porridge in Australia. And it was this boy, this Scottish boy, right? And the voiceover would put it.

The voiceover would put it. He'd have a plate of a bowl of porridge put in front of him, right, this kid. And the voice over go, this is how you make porridge. And the boy would be like, Is no how you met porridge? And then they jump cut to another one. Another bowl goes in front of him. This is how you make porridge.

It's not how you make porridge. And then as the third one gets put in front and goes, this is how you make porridge. He goes, aye, it's delicious. but it's not how you met portage. And it was the brand that they were selling. Uncle Toby's or something. Very good ad.

oft parodied. I reckon fast forward or someone did a... Magna Skramanski who played the kid, I think. It's not how you're met, potage. It was one of those ads that's just locked into my head. There seems to be a lot of those. Nearly every ad you've ever seen, you've quoted on this podcast. It's back.

It's there. That's true. So immediate recall. It's quite impressive. Yeah, it's one of my skills. Yeah, very susceptible to advertisements. I am, yeah. That's why I try not to torture him anymore.

You only star in them. Only star in them. So he refused. He refused to be intimidated into selling drugs on his route, right? That's commendable. I'm a big fan with fat boy. So the intimidation... A fat boy.

I fucked it. We fat it. We fat. Fat boy. Boy. boy. Oh, Scottish listeners

must be hating this. Fat boy, sorry. All loving it. It's hard to know. This is all from a place of love. That's what I want our Scottish listeners to remember. All I can hear is Billy Connolly in my head now. We joby.

We joby. And sing, if it was nif for you, wellies, where would you be? You'd be in the hospital or infirmary. Because you would have a dose of the flu or even pluracy. If it was nif for you. Send your willies. I thought you said if it wasn't for your willie.

Wellies. If you wasn't for your willie, where would you be? And I was thinking, damn right, Billy. It's probably getting paid less, that's for sure. Yeah, wouldn't be able to hump anything. Dave, we can still hump stuff. Who's we? The us without willies.

The williless. The willy. You hump without a willy. I've never seen it done. Good luck. Good luck. I'm really sorry that I sang. I'm so sorry that happened.

So after refusing, he was attacked by a balaclava wearing gunman who shot through his windshield on this show I watch. And I believe that he was in the van at the time. Oh. We fatty. With a sawn off shotgun. Yeah. So obviously that's a pretty big intimidation tactic. I'm a big bit intimidated by that, I feel intimidated by that.

I feel like that's an attempted murder. Yeah. That's true. But I think, I think. I imagine it was shooting away from him, but still, how accurate are torn off shotguns? Don't they just spray bullets? Especially if you're a fat man.

Yeah. You're a big target. It's a big moving target. Huge. Is that why you stay so slim? Exactly. Try and hit me with a shotgun. All right.

You missed. Look, I don't like, I quite like, I quite like Doyle because, and I know you guys are giving him a bit of shit, but I'll find... Is that fat boy, sorry? Fat boy, yeah. We're a party. Very commendable. He's standing up for what's right.

Yeah, I really, because for me, I would, I would, if someone's shooting at my windscreen and saying, do what I tell you, I'll be like, all right, what do you want me to do? Yeah, okay. Get a tattoo of a Pokemon? Sure, I'll do it. Saying that I love Jess and Dave, whatever. But why are you making this demand? It's very specific. Oh, it's Jess and Dave.

Take the Velcrovers off. We're cool. So, is he still refusing? Because at this point, I'd give in. No. All right. I'd probably just quit, to be honest. He refused to refuse.

No, he refused to not refuse. What? He didn't refuse. He, okay. Which makes, it gets sad from me anyway. I'm just trying to, I'm trying to give you some warning that it gets pretty grim. So that was the light part of the episode. Yeah, that was...

The bit where I sang. Yeah, the song, the bit where he was shot at with a shotgun, not shot. Yeah. Great. As Doyle refused to back down, the campaign of intimidation escalation. At approximately 2am on April the 16th, 1984, a petrol fire was started at the door of the Doyle family's top four flat in their estate, where Andrew Doyle lived with his parents, siblings, and on this night three family guests. The fire swept out of control through the apartment. If it was just meant to frighten, then it went horribly wrong as five members of the Doyle family died in the fire with another dying in hospital.

later on. Wow. The victims were James Doyle, 53, his daughter, 25-year-old Christina Halleron, her son, an 18-month-year-old baby boy named Mark, Mr. Doyle's son, James, 23, Tony, who was 14 years old, and Andrew Doyle 18. Whoa. So they did get a fat boy in south? They got a bad boy, yeah. Oh, that's awful.

I think three survived of the family, but yeah. That's awful. But, yeah, supposedly it was just meant to be another scare tactic. Well, I mean. A petrol fire, you know. Yeah, shit. Sometimes they go out of control. You're fucking imbeciles.

But so there was large public outrage over the attack, as you'd imagine, which placed a lot of pressure on the local Strathclyde police, who were beginning to be pejoratively called Serious Chimes Squad. Is it a serious crime squad? Oh, I see. the chimes of the ice cream van. Oh, okay. It was a bit of fun, isn't it?

I also really wanted to squeeze in the word pejoratively. Because they really weren't able, they were seen to be doing very little to stop the violence associated with the ice cream wars. The community outrage spurred the police in action really fast. Within a week, a local criminal named William Love provided information of the police that led to the arrest of four men on charges relating to the murder of the Doyle family. I think a couple others were arrested as well. but two main key plays in this, Thomas Campbell and Joseph Steele, well the main ones in the gun here. Love attested he overheard Thomas Campbell and Joseph Steele at a pub plotting to punish Andrew Doyle and planning the fire. Love's testimony became the cornerstone of the prosecution's case.

Campbell, who was one of the accused, described Mr. Love as a desperado, who for the sake of staying out of prison on bail for a couple months. you'd go into the witness box and finger any one of us. He figured me, he fingered him, he'll finger the entire jury if you need to. He's a finger for hire. If his finger will buy him afraid him. He's not afraid to use it. He'll finger you, Judge. He'll finger you all fucking night of you asked him.

And Judge says, I'm listening. It's a good offer. He'll figure you. Guilty. So his testimony He fingered, hey, he'll hinger him That's great We've all been fingered, Matt

There's no shame in it There's no shame The long finger of the law I'll tell you, that's a bloody long finger I felt nine-tenths of it I'll tell you what Possession is nine-tenths of the finger Of the finger

Inya, in ya Inya It's gonna finish that, but didn't really need to to. Good call. Inya will do. Love's testimony became the first of three key pieces of the prosecution's case. In the police car, as he was being taken away for questioning, the prosecution alleged

that Campbell said, it's the quote, the fire at the fat boys was only meant to be a frightner, which went too far. And this was the second. And he said that to the police in the car. He said that in the car as he was being taken away. I mean, come on. Maybe keep that on an inside thought. First of all, don't plan the murder.

in a pub. Second of all, when you get arrested, don't just start talking about it. Yeah. Yeah, these feel like real dumb mistakes, don't they? Yeah. Real dumb things. Yep.

Real dumb things. Or real lies. Yeah, maybe. So obviously that... Who are you fingering? I'm figuring them all. I do not discriminate with these fingers. He's much like love.

Isn't that, isn't that apt that he's named Love? The one who will figure anyone? Isn't that what love is in the end? The willingness to... No, it's not. I'm getting confused. That's a totally different thing entirely. The willingness to finger.

Isn't that? No, what it is. And then. No, what love is. This is my Jess. That's pretty good. It's pretty good. Hey,

fingering, everyone. Not the content of the words. Just the head tilt are you doing there. The head tilt. The bottom lip. I do that. Pekina real. Tegna real.

Tinger real roll on there. is what I do Are you having to go down as well Dave? I'm gone That's pretty good That's pretty good So obviously That him saying that

Implicated him in the crime Campbell denied ever saying it Swearing that the police Was stitching him up Toxie stuff They're sling up They're finger me And then they stitch me up

Oh no The finger's still in there Oh there's a regret face It happened The prosecution's final key piece of evidence was a map of the Rachazi estate. That is a hard word to say, I imagine. Or I nailed it potentially. R-U-C-H-A-Z-I-E, maybe.

Racharzy. So allegedly this map was found at Mr. Campbell's Flat. The Doyle's home on the map was marked with an X. And did it say, Will Burn? It was marked with a little fire emoji. Yeah, he's drawn the best of a fire of Ogy. If this is a stitch up, set fire to this one.

It feels so... Yeah. Like they've gone, if it's a stitch up, they've gone too far. Yeah, yeah. And if he's leaving this evidence around, he's not good at crime. Yeah, he's an idiot. On the opposite side of the map was a dot-to-dot game

with Campbell and his wife's initials. Oh. I've seen, in that show I watched, his wife was like, I was very busy around that time. We had kids. I was flat chat. We weren't sitting around playing dot-to-dot games.

It just didn't happen. But I mean, even if you're busy, you're going to make time, you know. I love the idea that the... That's what love is. That's what love is. It's not about fingering. Not well. I mean, it can work in, but...

Well, the cops have gone to that effort if they have planted this evidence. Well, I know something. We'll make them sign their names next to a dot-to-dot. Who signs your name next to a dot-to-d-d game? I think it must be just the initials so for the score or something? Yeah, probably. Yeah, I couldn't. That makes sense.

Sign here. I connected the dots and that's what I came up with. But honestly, honestly, if you're... Oh, very good, Matt. Yeah, no, I got it. But if you're not even making time... For a little dot-to-dot. You've got to connect.

You've got to connect. Oh, I love to dot to dot. Like, just even if it's 10 minutes at night. You know, you just catch up. Have a chat, like have a debrief. Like, how are you? How is your day? That question, I think, can really save a broken marriage.

And I feel like I would know. I would know. How many broken marriages have you had? Have you saved? Oh, I've had many a broken marriage. Have you saved most of them? Yeah, for a bit. Yeah, I've collected them.

I've got so many saved marriages at the moment. Yeah, I've got heaps. I reckon if a, if a relationship is on the rocks, that question just becomes fucked. It's like, I don't know. It was fine. It was fine. Whatever. Just leave me alone.

Sure. I imagine. I've never been in a bad relationship. Campbell had served years in jail. You would say that. Never accept any of the blame, will you, mate? I've never done anything wrong. That's not at all what I said.

Yeah. It's what you meant. It's not all my relationships have been perfect. But, I mean, they can't. Honestly, they'll have a used by day. There it is. Okay, great. So they're not perfect, are they?

I don't know what I'm talking about. Campbell had served years in jail in the 1970s and the early 1980s, and according to the prosecution was a violent man who had entered the ice cream van business in 1983 and protected his patch from rival ice cream business, the machete family, who Andrew Doyle worked for, and he did it violently. He'd violently protect his patch.

The prosecution painted steel as Campbell's sidekick, who was recruited to do the dirty work in the campaign against the Marchetti drivers and vans. So they're the two main men. Camble and Steel. Machete? Because machete is an awesome name for a badass gang. It would be, but I think it's machete.

And I think it's just a family surname. But can we please now? Yes. The machetes. It's such a fucking great name. I didn't even have to finish the sentence. You and I are so in tune. Okay, what am I thinking now?

Can I have a gelati, Mr. Machete? I was actually going to say ice cream on the way home. Fuck, yeah, well done. Close, real close. It's pretty pretty the same thing. It's just some bloody terminology, mate. Well, let's just always a time. No, go on.

Campbell denied this, saying that he left his criminal past behind him when he joined the ice cream van business, and he was just trying to make a clean start. Hey, I'm just a next con trying to work with children. Cut me a break. The prosecution had no forensic evidence against either of the accused. And both of the men provided alibis, though the alibis... I was playing dot to dot. With his wife.

Both the alibis could only be corroborated by their partners, though. But kind of makes sense to me because it was 2am. So it's like... It'd be weird if you're like, yeah, yeah, I was down, you know, with my lawyer and my church clergyman. And we were playing a legal game of poker. Yeah, it would make sense that your partner can... At 2 a.m. 2 a.m.

I think that... They probably know where you are. Yes, that's... Hmm. But anyway, seemingly, these things should have been pretty devastating to the prosecution's case. In my mind, I'm like,

no forensic evidence at all, and they had alibis. But, you know, they're fucking bullshit alibis. And they've got the map. And he admitted it. And he's a dirty dog. All right. But how would you say that in the Scottish accent?

You dogg. Dirty dog. Dirty. No. I'm so sorry, Dirty Dog. I'm so sorry to our Scottish list. There's a few of you and you're really lovely. I'm so sorry.

Dirty dog. I can't get out of that. Where is it? Dirty. Dirty. Dardcy dog. No. I think I was getting more.

Dany. I want to say Doug? No. I'm so sorry. Say Dirty Dog in Michael K-9's voice. Hello. Hello, I'm Michael Caine and I am a dirty dog. That's pretty good.

So it feels like, Dave, you're in tune with the jury. I am so 100% guilty. Take him away. The pair was unanimously found guilty. And unanimity wasn't even a requirement in the Scottish. No, you just need a majority. Just need a majority. So more thought he was guilty than even required to.

and the pair were jailed for life, sentence to life. Wow. Minimum of 20 years. Beautiful. So. The minimum of 20 years, we're killing six people. Yeah, without... I think the minimum should be...

Well, I imagine that is the minimum. Yeah, maybe that was... I don't... That probably is a life. It's 20 plus is what I mean. I think these guys... It doesn't mean you have to let them out after 20. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think it's life, but if... It's like a good behaviour thing. which is still, I agree. Your behaviour is so good that you bring six people back to life, we'll let you out. Because I think on some, like, it is, it's got to be different from going to someone's house and putting a bullet in six heads.

What if you lit a fire? I would much rather die with a bullet to the head than an apartment. No, no doubt, but in terms of severity of the crime, I don't know. Obviously, they're all fucked, but there's different levels of fucked. Dirty. Dirty dog. Dog.

Dog. Dog. That's good. Dirty dog. Yeah, that's getting pretty close. Probably still offensive to Scottish people, but it sounds more right to me. Ross, I'm so sorry, Ross. I'm not pleased to go on.

So this investigative journalism show, trial and error, watched last night, sent it on the case. It was so good as well. There were bits of it. They use this weird device, editing device. where they'd have obviously two cameras on the interviews with people involved in the case, and they'd just be standing in their house or something like that. They'd have the whole screen all of a sudden would be a close-up of their face, and this weird sort of edit down the side,

and then on the other half of the screen would be the other camera. So you'd see them talking from two angles, one close-up and one mid-shot. It was like they'd just discovered some technology in the 90s. They're like, here we go. Well, here we have to use this. It would be a shame not to use this. This is going to blow their friggin' minds. But, yeah, obviously.

Anything that you think is cutting edge at the time is always going to look dated very quickly. I really enjoyed it. I was laughing out loud every time. It takes a bit to get a good loud, like out loud laugh from you. Yeah. It feels so good when it happens. Oh, man. It's the most gratifying thing in the world.

So they, in this program, the journalist found many inconsistencies within the case. One that stood out to me was the date that Love had said he overheard the man in the pub. He gave different dates for that. Oh, can't. People get confused. They definitely can. Fine. One of those dates couldn't have possibly been right because he was in jail at the time. Right.

Okay. Did you get confused with that? He probably couldn't have been. He just got confused. I trust him. The program was asking questions about the legal system and how it was unable to uncover these inconsistencies because they didn't even come up in the case.

So the defence didn't know about them. And I understand that it's the prosecution's job to put people behind bars, you know. But I feel like big chunk of that is putting the right people behind bars. And it was almost like they just wanted to get people away because there was a lot of, you know, the people... Big case, family died, yeah.

People really wanted action. And it's like they're like, we're just got to make something happen. That's what it feels like maybe because it felt like definitely a lot of corners were cut, and at worst, they just made evidence up. Oh, two dirty dogs are in jail. What more do you want?

The rest of my case. Two. Two dirty dogs. I didn't jail. What more do you want? No, fuck it. I lost it at one. But I was doing okay.

Step it up until that point. Again, I'm so sorry. But it will not be the last time. I'm 100% will not be. You are so right there. Campbell and Steel were sent to Balini prison. I hope it was a nasty one. Oh, I think it definitely was.

Apparently until about 10 years ago, the toilets were buckets in their cells. Great. That was in this century. Shitting in a bucket. In 2003 or 2004 was when they changed that. Oh, God, that's pretty fucked. And that's in like the UK.

Yeah. Like a first world country. Oh, my God. I couldn't believe. it. A bucket. They continued to... Is it the Monty Python episode?

We talked about shitting at a bucket? As it was. Anyway. I don't recall that. I do remember another episode where I had a bucket. One of the other options for Monty Python was something, horse, something in bucket. Like, who would we be watered? I said I would do the bucket because I shat in a bucket one time.

Have you really? No. But it was the last option. She spent a couple of years in Bellini. Yeah, well, you know what. When they were there, they continued to protest their innocence. Oh, shut up, liars. Shit in the bucket and fuck off.

After a few years behind bars, their campaign to prove their case was a grave miscarriage of justice was gaining momentum. But in 1989, their appeal failed. What does I tell you? They're guilty. Three years later, a breakthrough occurred. in their quest for freedom in 1992 journalist Doug Skelton and journalist Lisa Brownlee published a book called Frightners

and it was about the ice cream wars. Love was interviewed for the book, The Fingera. Love the fingerer. Mark the Fingera Love. And in this process he signed three affidavits saying he had lied in court. Three? Three, yeah, it feels like overkill. The only thing,

Oh yeah, so people were saying In a few different articles And he had no reason to change his story Like there was no gain It's been paid off Pade off Nothing for him to gain But

I was thinking You know Unless he likes the attention obviously Because this puts him in the news again So I don't know If he was into that But everyone else Who I read was saying

You know There was nothing for him to gain Whereas the first time around He had to get some bail Is that right? Yeah he he was was able to get out of jail basically for for that was the dealy cut with the figure those two men yeah yeah exactly all right oh it's just for you Dave I guess I don't know

fuck um the book's author said that the driving force for love was to clear his conscience uh explaining why he'd initially lied in court love confirmed that he did it to secure a deal for himself saying, I did so because it suited my own selfish purposes. The explanation as to why I gave evidence is this. The police pressurised me to give evidence against Campbell, who they clearly believed was guilty of arranging

to set fire to Doyle's house. So he was both saying he did it for his, you know, to get out of trouble, but he also did it because the police made, you know, pressured him to. But that the police did believe, Like the police, he's saying they framed him basically. They fingered the guy they thought did it anyway.

They just had no evidence of. So that was sort of, that's in his love's mind. Love being a guy who's proven himself to be a liar. So everything he says is sort of like, how much of it do you believe? Yeah. This sparked new interest in the story, this book coming out, and also led to Steele and Campbell increasing their attempts to get attention to their case. They went about it in different ways.

escape prison on a number of occasions. Once he escaped, though, he didn't hide. One of these times, he did quite the opposite. And he went to Buckingham Palace, handcuffed him to the front gates, and superglued his hands to the bars. What? What? He did that himself.

Handcuffed his himself and super glued his hands to the bars. What? Just like a protest going, hey, remember me? And he went a long way, too. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So it's, when you go that far, it's sort of like. could you

you know he he could have just tried to lay low or whatever but he's like no I want justice doing stuff like that made me think it's like why would it

if a guy was guilty would you do that no well you wouldn't think so if it let you add on the long run because if you escape you're pretty much

99% of the time you get recaptured but if you do this and you look innocent people start publicly backing you maybe they'll look into your case you roll the dust

one more time Maybe you'll get out. Okay. Like the dirty dog you are. You lying murderer. Maybe you'll get out like the dirty dog you are. Then dirty dog's always getting out. Yeah, you heard me.

It's always plenty getting out that dirty dog. I've got to fix the fence. It's time for a bath. It's time for a bath, you dirty dog. Oh, no, he's off again. He really hates baths. He really hates baths. But loves crawling under that fence.

My own fault. Campbell, on the other hand, went on a hunger strike that lasted months. This is how he was trying to bring attention. I feel you're getting a lot less attention in a jail where you're shit in a bucket. People are like, no one gives a fuck, mate. Go to Bucky Ampellers. I had a thought about that.

I'm like, if the prison, you know, the prison's not going to be trying to push that story. So if you're quietly doing that in a pretty brutal prison, he must have been talking to lawyers or something going, get this story out. He must have been talking to someone on the outside saying, get this into the press. Maybe that book probably covered it. Otherwise, it's a tactic that only works if you're getting coverage for it.

I mean, same as handcuffing yourself to Buckingham Powers, but that feels a bit more likely. Live streamed my hunger strike in this prison. Yeah. So, but apparently that got him really close to death on multiple occasions. So in this show, he was talking about how he eventually they took away his tea even. Oh, so he's still alive 20 years ago? Yeah, I was going to say that's quite an old documentary.

So they took away his tea? Yeah, they took away his tea. Yeah, they took away his tea and his pens and pads. Oh, I get it. You don't want to eat. Fine. Well, you can't drink either. Oh, no.

It's like, yeah, well-played. You're not allowed to have roasts either. Yep. I'm not eating. I don't care. Well, can't have chucky bicky. Ooh, they're yum, aren't they? Oh.

Go away with a tea. Can't have that. These are a list of things you're not allowed to eat. I'm not eating at all. mate. I'm not eating. Dave, you're never babysitting my children that I don't have.

Okay. There's a bit of an admission there, Jess. I'm not babysitting your children that you don't have. Yeah. But the ones that you do have, I'm in charge. I mean, that, yeah. When I'm not there, you're second in charge. Who's first in charge?

Oh, hilarious. Whilst all this was going on there, lawyers continue to fight for them, eventually having them released on bail in 1996, pending a second appeal. You get released on bail? Yeah, pending appeal. Which is interesting.

What, you've been found guilty of murdering six people? Yeah, that's what I found interesting. If you get to appeal, don't you just wait it out? Yeah, it's like now you're sort of, it's the opposite. You're almost guilty till your appeal succeeds. But apparently, yeah, you're out on bail. And I also imagine that the guy that has broken out so many times, that's also a crime. You're not getting in trouble to that?

Yeah, I imagine that makes it. It's like, well, well, We'll let you out for that, but you have broken out of six prisons, so here's another five-year sentence. By this stage, though, their case was even stronger, because this time they had affidavits from love, which they didn't have before. Still got the map, still admitted in the cop car, you dirty dogs. Only according to four policemen. Yeah, you can't trust those. You can trust this dirty dog over four police.

There was this weird thing, apparently, so the four cops in the car heard it, but the one who wrote down him saying that was the driver. Isn't that weird? Yeah. So they had to pull over or something? That's what they said. They're like, I don't know if it really makes sense.

Why would the driver? Surely the guy on the passenger seat. I guess the guy's in the back and... Chatting. Chatting. They're like, anyone keeping truck of this? Yeah, I am. Aren't you driving?

Multitask, mate. I got a voice to text. Siri? Take a note. He just said, I fucking did it. So, and no. End.

And no. Stop it. Fuck. Fuck. Siri calls me daddy. What? I don't remember setting that. It was a joke one time.

No. Yeah, because you can tell Siri to call you anything. I don't like that. And then I did something the other day and I asked Syria a question. She said, okay, daddy. Oh, weird. So weird. That's the worst of all things.

People calling anyone daddy. I don't care if they are your daddy. No good. Okay. Maybe. Maybe small children calling their dad that maybe. Sure. Six and under.

But. Yeah. I agree with you. I don't remember how or why it happened. I've changed it now. Well, no. It's not, yeah. That's why it was funny because it's a phone and I'm a lady.

Okay, daddy. Okay, daddy. I was like, no, Siri, no. No, Siri. Please stop it. Okay, so yeah, so this time their case was stronger because of these affidavits, right? which removed one of the three key piece of evidence. Dave obviously mentioned that there's still the other two.

Got the map. I'm not worried. I'm not worried about it. Got the map and we got the half admission thing in the car. Half admission. He said it was only, yeah, he sort of implied that he... I half did that. I set the fire, but I didn't put it there.

It's like what? Yeah, I'll set it down the road. Someone picked it up. I don't know we got there. Sheer coincidence that it went to the exact spot that my friend wrote down on the map. Moves a bloody fire. I'll tell you what. He's a rogue.

In February 1998, the panel of three judges was split on whether the fresh evidence relating to Love's testimony would have significantly affected the outcome of the trial in the first place and whether or not it should be reheard now. So it was split? Which way do you reckon it was split? Lord Cullen and Lord Sutherland both decided it would not have affected it, meaning that it was a 2-1 split with Lord McCluskey disagreeing.

And because it was a negative result 2 to 1, they were refused the appeal again. So do you go back to jail at that point? Back to jail. Back to jail. That's a weird thing. You were out for a while, even though you're a convicted murderer. No one has overturned your murder conviction yet.

So you're still on the street as a convicted of murder. This was to see if it could be... I don't think this was even an appeal. This was to see if it could go to. appeal, I believe. So yeah, anyway, but it's interesting, so they're back back to jail again. And no appeal happens at all.

No, didn't. Two to one. Only one of those lords. They're all lords as well. Is that still happening where it's just lords making decisions? The lord makes all of my decisions for me. Podcast lord. Ten months later, they tried to have that decision to refuse their appeal overturned.

Fuck, law's confusing. Basically appealing their failed appeal. But Donald Jua, who was the Scottish secretary, that's super sweet Scottish name. Donald. Donald. The Juer. Because Juer is like a common brand of Scotch.

You'll find in the bottlers around here, Jewers. There you go. I don't know if it's genuine or not, but that's, you see that in the Scotchile. It's one of the cheapest. Donald's, the Jewers, teachers, Mm-hmm. Bantanth. Smurnoff.

the Russian scotch. My helping. So, Dewa said, he turned down the bid also. So they try to appeal the failed appeal sort of. And Dewa said that there were not sufficient grounds to allow it. So they're on a big old losing streak at this stage. And I reckon if it was me, I don't know if it was you, I'd basically, I reckon I'd just about be like, oh, fuck it.

Yeah. I would have no confidence in the system at all. If I was actually innocent. If I wasn't, I'd be like, nah. Yeah. Nah, I was going to try. Yeah. Yeah, you got me.

Nah. I did it. Yeah, I totally did it. Yeah. Yeah, but they continue to fight. At this point, their lawyer, a man named John Carroll, took it to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. And the fight went on.

The years continue to go by, as they tend to do. and the Crown fought hard against letting the commission access paperwork attaining to the case attaining? I wrote that just before and I'm like, that's not the right word,

pertaining? Yeah. Pataining to the case. Anyway, paperwork about the case. Yep. Paperwork from the case. So not letting them even have a look. The Crown, you know, the prosecution,

the government or whatever, they're like, nah, no, you can't have it. But this is another government body, the commission who want to access the paperwork to, you know, see if the case was fair and everything. Not even let him have a look.

They're like, no, you can't. They fought them against it. And it all almost makes it tell her that something hard. They're heck it. So it's like, just let them see the things. If it's fair, Dinkum, then too right, Cobber. You know what I mean? Lord Clark ruled in...

I imagine if you said that, that'd be like, in Scotland, sorry, what are you talking about? What? What? What? What? Sorry, what? Are you not all right. We're getting better Have you guys been to Glasgow Glasgow Glasgow

Glasgow As a kid yes I've not And this is my experience So I know it's a lot safer now But it was famously quite a rough city And we went Well 1998

Walking down the street Turned by right Look down an alleyway We see a man Nut headbut another dude And he The famous Glasgow kiss I saw that live

And my parents are like, we've got to get, we've got to get out of here. Wow. So the live, let's go kiss. That's cool. Live is a weird way for you to put it, but, um, okay. He'd watched so many, he'd read so many in the books. I will be headbutting live. Wow.

Hey, if you give enough money to our Patreon, I'll hump something and then headbut it. Wow. We'll do the double. Put a dollar figure on that, mate. Famous Dave double. That's terrible. That's so weird. Is it?

I don't know anymore. Yes, no it is. Okay, thanks Matt. Lord Clark, who was making the decision on whether or not they could be granted access to the paperwork, ruled in favour of the commission, stating that the commission has a statutory obligation to carry out a full, independent and impartial investigation into alleged miscarriages of justice. And the legislation under which it acts was clearly designed to give the widest powers to perform that duty. That does sound fair enough.

It's like, that's their job. Let them just review it Yeah, totally agree It's so weird Why can't they have a look? Yeah Is there a reason they can't have a look? Because they're dirty dogs

And they're guilty of crime Sorry, I forgot where I said on this Dogs They're guilty of crime I think they were saying that though Yeah that was pretty good Pretty close So I just left the room

And Billy Connolly was here For a few seconds I was channeling Yeah Your Wigel be in the shoe Yeah This was a big win for Campbell and Steele and in 2001, three years after their last failed appeal attempt,

the commission sent the case back to the appeal court. So they finally got to appeal it. Do they get out again for this bit? Or they still locked away. Yeah, they get out again. Oh, for fuck. What? Stop letting them out.

I know. The following month, Campbell and Steele were granted freedom, but only in the interim. If their appeal failed, they would have had, they would have to have. head back to prison. Think about all the cool shit you'd be doing, like all the good food you'd be eating. That'd be about it. The potential key to the success of the appeal

was Brian Clifford, a professor of cognitive psychology, and he testified that the recollection of Campbell's statement by the four police officers at the time of the original trial was too exact. Oh, come off it, mate. They wouldn't have remembered exact details. All four recalled what he said, the sentence,

word for word, same lingo, same grammar. If a dude admitted to burning down a house, you'd remember that. You've just arrested him. No, you don't remember, yeah, you wouldn't all four of you write down or say the exact same words. At a later date, the exact same. And it was like in Scottish, yeah, it was, no, it wasn't, but it was like, you know, it was 20-something words. All exact. So, and he conducted studies and his results were that most only.

recalled between 30 and 40% of the actual words they heard. They'd get the, you know, the sentiment right. Having said that, I actually can't remember the wording that you used about 45 minutes ago. The highest score obtained, recalling what Campbell was supposed to have said was 17 words out of the 21. Wow. So that was the highest out of it. Did you read the whole 21 before? Yes.

Do you want to have a crack at it? Yeah. Let me go find it again. Okay. The fire at... Did you call him Fat Boy? The fire of Fat Boys... House.

Was... Was only a scare? Yeah. And it got... It got out of control. No, I don't think he said out of control. It got out of hand. It went too far.

Well, you're going to have to lock something in. Went too far, Wings of L. Got out of hand, went too far, I think. So you say it from the start? The fire of fat boys. house was only a scare. It was only meant to be a scare. Oh, this is fun.

So close. And then how do you finish it? It got out of control. It went too far. Oh man, it's so close. So you've added in house, which isn't there. Fat boys, yeah. And you said scare, but it was frightener.

Frightner. Damn. But if you spotted, she'd get that, Lingy. And which went too far. There was no, you added an extra little bit in there as well. Can you just read it back? So it was the fire at fat. Boys was only meant to be a frightener, which went too far.

Yeah, I remember it went too far. So I think that, yeah, you did quite well there, but it does kind of prove the point. We've probably got 17 out of 21. Yeah, plus a few extra. But between the two of us as well, though. Yeah, you were working. But there's four people in the car, so between the four of them, they would get them all. Thank you.

But I might. Go to jail, you dog. Your dog. I guess the problem was they must have obviously said, no, we didn't go back over this together. You know, they must have said, no, that's just how I remember it. I haven't talked to them about it. But clearly they at least maybe said it, but then they must have talked about it.

Let us give a bit of credit to the constabulary of the famous Glasgow Police Department, who, of course, they've spent years taking witness statements. So they would be able to recall much better than an average human like us would be able to. It's interesting as well. Interesting.

Dog, you're a dog. And also, obviously, you write it down when you're driving. Yes. But, yeah, so he wrote it down. It feels like he wrote it down and then everyone else looked at it and remembered it or something. But why did the driver, anyway, there's all these weird things. Yeah. It's a problem sometimes when you get all these different sources and bring them in together in a one report.

And even in my sources, there's all these weird things that don't make sense. Most things sound crazy, the more you think about them. Pink. Dave, humping and then headbutting an object. That only gets less crazy than what you think about it. What do you? What would you make him do? I'm thinking like a watermelon.

It would just be fun to see him like burst of watermelon with his head. Humping at first, I don't know. You'd have to like get a whole... Anyway, I've felt him out of a little too much. He's just humping. All right, we'll do a vote. Oh, yeah, right. So humping doesn't mean penetrating.

Yeah, I've got... I'm probably wearing pants unless you want to pay the full price. Yeah, dry humping. He's dry humping a watermelon. You're not wet humping the watermelon. How about, how about this? Because normally a watermelon would prefer to be wet humping. It's in its nature.

What is happening? I know you love your little poles, your little... Little polls, eh, Dave? Fuck. I know you love your little surveys on our Patreon page. So how about we put up four things for me to dry hump and then headbutt. If you're a patron, you'll get to vote and you will see that exclusive video, Patreon.

Are we just going to do that next week? Sweet. All right, that's awesome. No one's going to vote. We'll put one option. One option will be, please no, Dave. And I will be very surprised if that doesn't win. No.

As if that would win. That will win. People want to see the dry hump. No one wants to see it. I'll be offended if people don't say yes. Even though everyone could choose not to see it, I think people will just prefer to know that it hasn't happened. Four objects.

Suggest them now. Wow, so he wouldn't go in for the tattoo, but he will hump something. On tape, and put it out into the internet. Yeah, onto Patreon exclusively. Okay. And you trust those people to keep that in house. It's a kind of silence over there. They've paid for it.

They don't want anyone else to see it. Okay, well, anyway, so it went to appeal, and this testimony from Brian Clifford. helped because the appeal was a success. What? What? No. No, this comes back on the streets, ready to murder another unwilling family.

You dirty dog. How, how unanimous was there not guilty? Just not guilty, just. Just to, yeah, ask that question, Dave. Dave, shut the fuck up, Dave. So that is basically bringing me the end of the report. So they got out. They got out.

What you was that? One of my great sources, it was 2004, one of my great sources for this report, probably the main one, was from an article in the Scotsman's newspaper. I hope our Scottish listeners can tell me that this is a good and worthy newspaper. It calls itself Scottish. That's the one that is one of the most important ones to get a good review at during the Edinburgh fringe. Right. You get four or five stars in the Scotsman, you're all right. I feel like it's, yeah.

I imagine it's their broadsheet. I'm thinking it's their respectable paper, but if it turns out it's like a catalogue, it comes with. the um comes with your alty your kmart catalogue or something then uh but anyway so i use that quite a bit in this um and so i thought i'd finish with a couple of paragraphs from an article from the scotsman um which was published the day after the men's convictions were quashed in 2004 and this and this is those paragraphs when the judgment finally came the end of scotland's longest running legal saga was marked not by the raucous celebration that most anticipated, but by muted anger at the failings of the criminal justice system. As they were cleared at the Court of Appeal in Edinburgh

of the murder of six members of a Glasgow family during a fire-raising attack in 1984, Joseph Steele and Thomas Campbell did not turn to each other or their loved ones packed together in the public gallery, but looked straight ahead, staring unflinchingly at the bench. Their reaction was perhaps fitting in the circumstances. The true legacy of their 20-year campaign for freedom has been their blinked determination to overturn one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in Scottish criminal history. The murder of six members of the Doyle family in an arson attack at the heart of the so-called ice cream wars is surpassed in Scottish criminal notoriety only by the horrific deeds of Peter Manuel, who was hanged at Balini prison in 1958 after being convicted of

seven murders. I only left that last bit in because I'm like, I'm curious about this guy now. I wonder if that could be a future episode. Peter Manuel. We know the ending now. Fuck. So it's interesting that's the second most notorious criminal case in Scottish.

Wow. So they went to jail for 20 years. That always breaks my heart when you hear those stories of people getting out. They were wrongfully convicted. And then, but they've, you can't get those 20 years back. So at the end of the case, people were kind of asking Campbell if he was, you know, he must feel happy or whatever.

And this is a quote that I think sums up sort of where he was at about it all. He said, there is no jubilation or happiness because I feel there is only losers in this case. The Doyle family lost. We have lost our lives in prison. And for 20 years, justice has lost. Well, I imagine if I was in that case, I'd be like straight from that court to the other side of the court to sue the shit. The sewage side of the court.

Yeah, no. To sue the shit out of the justice department, you know, 20 years of robbery. Yeah, he actually did talk about that as well. He said, there is no compensation for a tragedy of this magnitude. There is no compensation for society robbed of justice for over 20 years. Wow. It's pretty articulate, isn't it? Yeah, some of those quotes almost feel like there was a robbery.

writing process. Yeah. Yeah. A team of writers. We've had 20 years to think about the moment that you emerge a free man. That's true. Yeah. Maybe that.

And then even years between knowing that that final appeal was going to happen and it being successful. And he's doing it out in the free world anyway. He could have been out there with some writers. Maybe there weren't such dirty dogs after all. Dirty dogs. Dirty dogs. Dirty dogs.

Dirty dogs. Dirty dogs. Dirty dogs. Dirty dogs. like cleaning themselves. He's just a regular dog. I didn't have any writers. I didn't have any writers.

I couldn't figure that one out. He had 30 years to think of that, Matt. I get it because now they're not dirty dogs. They're not dirty dogs. They're clean dogs. Nah, good guys. Oh, that was a, wow, a fascinating story. I did not know any of that.

Yeah, what a story. I had nerd of that either. So, yeah, thank you so much to our suggestors. Yeah. Yeah, we love when you suggest. sort of maybe, I don't know, it's three of us, it's obscure but to us, like obscure, cool stories like that.

So if you have any, I know, inkling of something that maybe happened in your country that we wouldn't be aware of. Yeah. Hit us up. Because we're aware of everything that's ever happened in Australia, of course. Yeah, for sure. Matt, one of my absolute favorite things about you

is how quickly you will agree to a joke, like with a joke, like just the, mm, mm, that's like, it's always so early in something dumb I'm saying, mm, yeah, it's very good. love it. He's a real supporter. He really backs it. It's great. You got it. I'm a yes man. Yeah, so thanks so much to Carlos, the birthday boy.

Yeah, who's having his birthday boy this week. Good luck with your birthday boy, mate. You'll need it. There are a real handful. Sorry about the spoilers. And also Connor, who suggested it a few months ago. And who else? And I think you guys will all now agree that it is the coolest thing ever, seriously. Well, except for all the brutal murder, which is less cool. Yeah. Good call there.

Classic Connor. Classic Connor. You gotta back yourself, Connor. You got to. Do you think murder's cool? Let's go with it. Yeah, fuck. Awesome.

Great story. A little roller coaster. It was one of those ones going in where I'm like, oh, are they going to be able to be lighthearted about this? And yeah. They were. Dirty dogs. Just accused two innocent men that spent 20 years in jail of being dirty dogs. So I think we should take some time now to thank everyone that supports us over at patreon.com slash do go on pod.

The people that are trying to get Jess and Matt Tattieffat. Dude. Sorry, Dad. And the people who'll see you hump a something or other. Yeah, that's right. Then headbut. All you pay to. For some reason.

But like, normally with these sorts of things, we discuss it ahead of time and go, yeah, no, we're all okay with that. And he's just come out on the pod like, yeah, I'm going to hump something. Usually we plan these sort of humping campbanks. But today I've just gone out. Oh, half-cocked. Half-cocked. Which is hard to hump half-cocked. Well, I'll give it my best.

We'll give it my best. Now, we'd like to say thank you to some of our parents. Patreon supporters, our patron. And I would like to start by thanking someone who may or may not be part of the government. They live in our Australian capital

territory. Yes, I would like to thank the one, the only, the honorable, the right honorable, MP herself, Ms. Government Minister for environmental crimes, it is. Anna Casey. You know, are you seen her out there talking...

Oh, I've seen it. I voted for her. Alongside our prime minister. Yeah. Welcome Turnbull and her. She's the environmental crimes minister. Yeah. Remind me again, is she pro or against? Environment. She plans the environmental crimes.

Uh-huh. She plans them. She plans them. Wow. But do you think the crimes plan themselves? Yes. That's how good she is. She makes you think that.

Wow. Anna Casey. Remember when people started to perjuratively call her the minister for environmental chimes? Did you just want to say pejoratively again? Yes. You like that word. Well, what a great job she does. Great job, Anna.

Depending on what side of environmental crimes you stand, of course. Of course. She does good work if you support a environmental crimes, and if you're on the other camp, you must at least respect her. Yeah, you've got to respect that work ethic. Exactly. You know, like, and a job well done. Exactly.

You got to respect that. Well done Anna Casey. She's results driven. Yeah. Speaking of results driven and jobs well done and I'm speaking on the fly here. I would also like to thank someone who's a very frequent tweeter as well. I recognize this name straight away. I was like, oh, hello, this is a friend of ours.

A very good friend. And I think he's been a supporter for a very long time. I would personally like to thank one of our Canadian friends from Vancouver. It's Cody Clark. Also, great name. Cody Clark. There is something, because apparently there's some... I read this little study.

That's not true. Someone told me once. They're not reading studies. But they may have read it in a study. They may have. They said they had, but they probably also just heard from someone else. Yeah. But who probably read it in a study?

If people make up a name quickly because they're caught in a lie, and the made-up name will often be alliteration. Yeah. Cody Clark. So you're saying Cody Clark is a made-up? Gary Greenman. Go on ask me to make up a name. Hey, Matt, make up a name.

Johnny Depp. Give a fake name. a fake name. I'm Johnny Depp. No relation. But I think Cody Clark's probably a real person. I'm fairly confident. He's had to fill out the Patreon form really quickly. Cody Clark.

Peter Clark. Yeah, great. Cody Clark is. But I think that they also are a lot of the coolest names. CC. A lot of alter egos in... Peter Parker. Superhero Universe as I as well. Clark Kent.

Iron Man. Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman. What's Iron Man's your name again? Tony Stark. Tony Stark, that's not quite right. But they're very close in the alphabet TNS. You think about that?

Stop trying. Anyway. When people are under pressure of study, your first name will often be very similar to the last name in terms of the first letter. They'll go, you'll never have an A and an X. You won't say Alex Xenophon. No.

No one's saying that. But you might say that because the last letter in Alex is X, and the first letter in Xenophon is X. I've done it again. I don't know what you've done. I got lost there for a bit. Anyway. In Dave's eyes.

I was. Old blue eyes over here. Please. Baby blues. Hey, if you don't, if you guys don't mind, if I just squeeze into this love in for a moment. Please. And thank. I mean, we have so many good names, but this has got to be up there with some of those good names.

Great. Really sell it, baby. Richard Schubert the third. Oh, very good. Give it to me. What? Again. Richard Schubert the third.

Even better the second time. Yeah. He's also, because that's Richard the third, right? Dick the turd. Mm-hmm. So he's, who was Richard the third? He had a play about him. What else was noteworthy?

Was he the one under the car park, Dave? Yeah. What? Under the car park? His bones were found under a camera. He found him like in a, I think it was a Lester car park. Wow. He's the one that supposedly had a hunchback.

May have killed his two nephews, locked him up in the tower, because they, when they grew older, would have been... Less hunchbacked. No, they would have been a rival to the throne. He was jealous. Which is why. He's very evil in the Shakespeare play. Right, right.

Gotcha. Cool. Well, thank you to Richard as well. Richard Schubert III. Fuck. I'm going to be saying that all night. It's bloody caught in my head. He's in the golden hat, actually.

Oh, what a guy. What a guy. Thank you very much to all of those wonderful people. I bet Richard Schubert III wears a golden hat. Yeah. A crown. Yeah. I know that's what some people call

A crown Yeah, he probably wears a crown He just got so excited He was, oh, he wears a crown Oh, he's my crown man He's American, but I think he's still He's still a monarchist Still a monochist

Still a monicus, till the end Uh, yes, sorry, I cut you off there, Jess Yeah, I was trying to wrap you up And he kept going So yeah, thank you Sorry, Jess, so let me just wrap you up there Thanks so much for listening to the show, everyone Sorry, Dave, if I can just wrap you up there, sorry

Okay, sorry, I was just going on too much about... If I could just wrap you guys up there, I'd like to bring this show to close. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Love of the fourth voice just came in. Like, like, do go on, had a narrator this whole time. Oh, that'd be so amazing. That'd be so good. This week, the three guests find themselves.

Trapped in Sherwood Forest. If I'll just wrap the four of you up there. This has been a lot of fun. That one was an intimidating topic. I hope I did it okay. Laws. Me and the Laws, I did legal. that is in high school.

So, you know, I'm kind of on top. Call of that. Didn't quite become a lawyer, but I did graduate high school. As all lawyers probably have. Probably have. Oh, I see. We all have that in common. But also, yeah, it was just a big, big old topic.

Hopefully I did it okay, especially to the boys who suggested it, the birthday boy. Carlos. Carlos and Conner. But if you were disappointed by that, which you might well have been, don't you worry. Because next week... Don't worry. Matt's winning you. back with this waffle at the end.

Next week, Dave is doing the report, so it's going to be fucking sick. Dick the turd himself. We love Warnocky reports. We do, I can't wait to hear it. Can't wait. I've got a doozy. Oh, you've already got it.

I've got a dozy. I write weeks in advance. Yeah, so do we, right now? Me too. Sorry, I'm just finishing my report. And then at the end, I waffle a bit. Okay, and send. And sink.

You sending it to yourself? Yeah. Dear Matt, here's your report. Have fun. Lots of love, Matt. Kiss, kiss, kiss. Hug, hug, kiss. I could just wrap you up there, guys.

Get in contact with us. Of course, we want to hear your suggestions for topics. And any feedback you may have, do go on pod at gmail.com or Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, at do go on pod. If you want to become a Petron, we've talked about that a lot on this episode, petron.com slash do go on pod. I'll be back with the report next week, as Matt says. But until then,

I think we might say, goodbye. Later. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want, it's up to you. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. Wherever we go, we always hear six months later,

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