Do Go On - 83 - J.R.R Tolkien

Episode Date: May 24, 2017

This week we delve into the Golden Hat and the mind of one of the greatest writers of our time! We apologise in advance for Matt's lack of Lord of the Rings knowledge. Anyway, JRR was a right bloody sweetheart so strap in for a delightful tale! Twitter: @DoGoOnPodInstagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] the show and get rewards like bonus episodes:www.patreon.com/DoGoOnPod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melbourne and Canada, we got exciting news for you. And we should also say this is 2026. Jess, what year is it? 2026. Thank God you're here. Right now, I'm in Melbourne doing my show with Serenji Amana, 630 each night at the Cooper's Inn Hotel, having so much fun. We'd love to see you there. Canada, we are visiting you in September this year.

If you somehow missed the news, we are heading up Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto for shows. That's going to be so much fun. Tickets for all this stuff, I believe, are online. And I'm here too. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. People watch the ride out of paradise. There's lots a wall, daylight, her, new and song.

It's good to me and a man and bad. I'll drum some boo and that are true. And go through. Hey, Uncle Dammit's down and crowded up Too much as I had, too much as guy You know, too much as God Oh, the power and the passion That's what that was

I thought it was the Adam's family at first And then I thought it was the theme from 90210. Dundon Dund Dund Dund Dund Dund Dund Dund That's pretty good too I think it was just because of the way you coughed sounds like the start of that song maybe. Do I have a bit? Again. And you just let me go.

I wanted to, I was waiting for just to cut me off. That's why I let you go. Oh, fuck. I should have known. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On. You're here with me, Dave Warnocky, them, Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins. Hello.

Oh. Where are them? Oh. Hello. You're the new it them. Hello. Oh my goodness. I'm blushing.

The power duo of the podcast. The power them. Of this podcast. Leaving me high and dry. The third wheel. If you're high and dry, what are we low and wet? Fuck yeah. Okay.

Cruising to the stream. Just treading water. We're just islands in the stream. Oh, not again. We'll stop you right there. No, how can we be wrong? Too early for a six-off. To another world.

And we rely on each other. Ha-ha. From another to another. And hello to all our new listeners, and goodbye to all our new listeners. That's how we'd warm up for the live shows. Remember that? We'd test the mics by singing islands in the stream. I have no recollection.

Neither do I. We did it like twice at least. Was I out of the back drowning myself in a time? toilet. You were probably actually setting up. Yeah, that's right. We were not being helpful, as per usual. You were probably feeling full of anxiety as we're fucking around.

Yeah. Oh, guys, just going to go and get some food? Oh, okay. I'll just set up this microphone then, will I? I said to myself. Yeah, out loud you said, okay, guys, no problem. Eat up. Sadly, love you.

You guys are the best. Enjoy your eggs. And he clicked the microphone in, put it on the stool, and went, ah, I should have gone with them. easier than I thought. I was done. Hey, I apologize in advance because I've been sick all week. Again.

Again. I don't know what's really. This is going to surprise some listeners. That's the thing. They'll probably be like, God, she's sickly. But I'm not. Well, I have been. But I mean, like, normally I'm a picture of health.

And I don't get sick, but I'm even sick for a while now. It's a pretty poorly drawn picture. Yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty sick picture. So we are asking you to stop the podcast. Pray for Bob. Hopefully start the podcast.

Yeah, resume. But also just forgive me for... Will it be coughing and spluttering? No, not coughing, but I'm just a bit nasally. Oh, no, that's good. Mr. Chappelle. How was he mentioned every week these sorts? Maxwell Sheffield makes it on to every show now.

That and Billy Connolly lately. Matt sort of ditched his tis and references, and now we're going for Billy Connolly references. Aye. Mr. Sheffield. Here we go. I'm Miss Fine. Bagpipes. I don't know if that was Billy Connolly doing Sheffield or Sheffield doing Billy Conley.

Interesting. Either way, I was transported to another world with that performance. It was beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Mr. Sheffield, you've done a wee job in Wellington. Bagpipes. Bagpipes. Frenchess de Chandra found a shit in her shoe

And she's blaming Mr. Sheffield And not Cici's dog? Oh, that dog would be dead now That's life for you Wow, okay, well, so enough about me, how are you guys? Are you well? I cannot remember the last time I was ill I am the picture of health, which makes me worried

You like the picture of Dorian growing That's right, well God, imagine what the attic looks like Oh my God It's fucked But I haven't, but I'm worried that when I get sick, it'll be bad now. It's been a while. Your body doesn't know how to fight it. I got my flu shot for the first time ever last week.

Oh, I got a flu shot, JP? No. Because out of the three of it, I would donate my flu shot to you if I could. That's sweet. Thank you. Yeah, I'd give you a double shot. Give me your arm. I'll rub along it.

I don't think that's how it works. Stop rubbing your arm on me. Just rubbing my little wound on yours. Yeah, I don't think that's going to have help more benefits. No, I don't think that's how it works But good call, maybe I should do that We did do an episode on small box The problem with it is that you can't get one while being sick

So I don't know if you'll ever have an opportunity Winter will be over It's no good You'll get the flush up from three years ago That you've been meaning to go I'm mostly just And the thing is like I've been home from work all week But it's not the type of sick where I'm bedridden

I'm still kind of wandering around the house I'm just bored and lonely I'm like, ah. Because that is how, when you go to the doctor, they say, are you bedridden? Are you house wandering? Yeah, I'm house wandering. Where are you?

Are you bored and lonely? Yeah. Well, sorry. I mean, that's a given way. You've already mentioned it three times in the conversation. Hi, doctor, I'm bored and lonely. Anyway, that's not what I'm here for. That's just how I introduce myself.

It's sort of just, it's part of who I am now. I don't know how to not be alone. Hello, are bored and lonely here for the two o'clock? Sorry, Jess Perkins. Sorry, I get like confused that. So that's my Yahoo chat room. Bored and lonely at the 2 o'clock. It's my email address.

Now, because you've had so much time to yourself, have you had a bit of time to research a report or have you been putting it off all week? No, I've been working on it, but normally I'll sit down and just sort of smash it out, whereas I've been working on it over the course of a few days, which is new and interesting. So it's ingrained in you.

Yeah, it's kind of ingrained. And I started to research, I was like, oh, yeah, this is kind of interesting. And then I kept going, and I was like, oh, this is actually a really cute. story. Oh, cute story. Is this the sequel to My Little Pony's?

Yeah. Yes. It's care bears. Ooh. Oh, I've got to find a reason to hate them as well. Yeah. And once again, like, as we were setting up today, I was like, oh, shit, I'll just write a question. And then I said out loud to you guys, fuck it, I'm not going to write a question.

You can say that. I said that. Out of nowhere. And you guys were talking about something else. And I had been pretending to listen. And I haven't run a question. So I'm just going to ask you. I'm going to start.

by the way. We're getting, let's get stuck in. Please do. I'm going to ask you, who is, okay, let's name a few. All right, and see if you get it. Wish that you'd written a question.

This is awful. Who? No, let's start with. No, no, scrap that. Let me get the whiteboard out. Come on. All right, everyone, grab an abacus. While Jess is thinking,

I should let new listeners know. This is how we start. The topic is the report giver ask the question, and that sort of leads us in. And a real smooth transition, as you can see happening before you right now. Real smooth. Really smooth. Okay, here we go.

You didn't even notice that transition. Here we go. Who would you say? Oh, no. No, sorry, please actually do go on to ask a question. Is one of the most successful fiction writers in history. Agatha Christie. Poirot, come on, challenge it.

You sold more books than any other writer in history. As if I would even attempt to do the Poirot episode. It's in the billions. Agatha Christie. The guy wrote the Bond books. Ian Fleming? Ian Fleming. Also wrote chitty, chitty, bang, bang.

Mm-hmm. It's not Ian Fleming. Which was a fiction, I believe. I mean, I've not seen evidence of that. Based on a true story. Modern, so we're going Jake Hare Rallings. Stephanie Meyer. No.

Stephen Meyer. James, is that the... R. L. Stein. No, it's not R.L. Stein. Go further back. Are we talking... Is it an initial initial? Yes, it is.

Was it really? Um, okay. It's initial, initial initial. Hunter S. Thompson, that was not right. Initial, initial, initial. Initial initial, initial. Oh, okay. Let me think.

ABC for kids. ABC for kids. With a Z. Wrote a book that is a big book and has been split into... Jesus. Several films. H. H. H. Holmes Christ.

What the hell? Was it? Is the first letter of J? Correct. Followed by an R. Correct. Followed by an R. Wait, I know it.

I know it. Matt's going to steal the glory. J.R. R. It's like, I've never heard anyone say it, but it's like Tolkien. Tolkien. Tolkien. Fuck. J.R. Tolkien.

I've seen that written a lot and he wrote, Winter is Coming. That movie about the trolls. Yes. What's it called? Winter is coming. No. No. Are you being serious?

The trolls are coming? Winter is coming. The trolls. This is so tedious. This is me being a troll coming. Sound the alarm. The trolls are coming. It's also the alarm.

The troll alarm. It's very confusing. Oh, what is it? I get confused between those two things. One of them is newer than the other, and it's called Lord of the Rings. There we go. Orlando Blooms. Are they from the same universe, Lord of the Rings and Winter is coming?

No. Game of Thrones. I just cannot believe. This is going to be a really long hour for Matt. He's going to learn so much. Have you seen the Lord of... You obviously haven't read the book. Have you seen the movies?

I feel like I've seen parts of them. Okay. Dave, have you read or seen... I have read... And my act. Is that them? Yeah. Do you just know that because you look like Gimley?

Yeah. Who is Gimley? I don't even know who that is. That guy. Yes. Yes. So agreeable. Yes.

Or no, depending what the answer is. I don't know. What's a Gimlet? It's because you look like giblets, right? Yes. Dave. I have not seen the films. Okay.

Because I have read As a kid I read The Hobbit And possibly the first Lord of the Rings book Because my mum and grandfather are a big fan Big fan Big fan You've got, that's right Your grandparents are at conjointalins

Are they? Yes Still I don't know if that makes them one person though doesn't But he said mum and mum and grandpa What did you said? No My mum and her

They're big fan though But they are conjoined They are big fan Anyway That was a weird way to put it But I don't want to... I'm willing... I don't want to derail the episode by getting bogged down in this.

So I'm going to let it go. Great. Okay, so let's pick it up from Big Fans. So they've got like... My mom's got a really old copy that my granddad had. And my whole life I was like, I'll read that as an adult because I can truly appreciate it. But I don't want to imagine the actors. Like Harry Potter was ruined for me by the films because now I just imagine...

Sure. Like a Daniel... Well, you don't imagine it. Radcliffe. Well, that's because... He is Harry. In a way. But I like using my imagination when I read, so that's why.

That's interesting. That's interesting. That's interesting. Is it because I look like Gimlet? Ghiblet. Ghiblet. No, you were right. No, Gimley.

Okay, this is amazing because this is a golden hat suggestion from James Roy. James Roy, we are so sorry. We have not done the recent. Well, that's the thing, James Roy, because I was like, I mean, I'm going to take this and I'm going to do my best at this report, but I don't know if I'm the most qualified. It turns out I am the most qualified. I assume Dave would have read the book. But I've seen the films at least 12 years ago.

It's crazy. You would struggle to find that many people of our generation map that haven't seen the Lord of the Rings films. And here we have three people, two of which have never seen them. Yeah, that's interesting. I know they were very big. Huge. The second one won Oscars, I think. I think all of them.

All of them, great. I'm not 100% sure on that one, but lots of awards. But one of the one best picture, that's right. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. But the thing is, like, this probably wouldn't normally be my, like, I probably wouldn't have been that interested. Yeah, not really, but one of my best friends in high school. Was J.R.R. Tolkien?

No. Sorry. Olivia R.R. Tolkien. Her name is Olivia Marn. And she was obsessed with Lord of the Rings. It would make us watch it all the time. So her name was Olivia and you were referring to Dave in like a Rustafarian sort of. Is that what happened? Her name was Olivia Marn

Is that what happened? I just double-checking, that's what happened. I met Liv on the first day of year seven, and I am so upset that I never thought of that joke. Like, I've known her for, how old am I? Like, 14 years. Never thought of that. I'm so upset right out of it through fresh eyes.

Yeah, you're right. I'm going to call her as soon as I'm done here and be like, hey, hey, Liv. Olivia Marn, and she'll just hang up on me. It'll be great. That would be a nice moment. Yeah, I haven't. spoken to for a while I should call. Anyway, so today's episode is less about Lord of the Rings

although I'll touch on it a little bit, but it is more to do with the life of J.O.R. Tolkien. Don't worry, because everyone's seen Lot of the Rings, but from Matt and I, so they're across that. Yeah, and imagine, imagine trying to do a report on a movie that the two other people hadn't seen. Imagine trying to do that. A trilogy as well. A trilogy. Imagine trying to do a report. On a trilogy of films. Have you guys seen back the future yet? I've told you I've seen it just a very long time ago. I have not seen it. I feel like it would be right up his alley though.

I think you'd love it. We should watch it. We say that so often that we should watch movies together. You know what? We never watch movies together anymore. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

All right. Next time we go to Matt's house, we'll watch a movie. Maybe not. Instead of doing any work. Okay. So, would you like to have a guess of what the J-I-R-I's? Well, Dave and my middle names are James. Correct.

I'm going to go for James. David, would you like to have a guess? John. Very good. John, it is. Okay. I reckon I've... Robert? No.

How old is this? He was born in 1892. Okay. I would have believed anywhere from 1700s to 1993. Well, you're not going to get the second R, but you might get the first one. Another Rheatherus. No. Okay.

Roger? No. Ryan. No. Reginald. Reg. Regan. Riley.

No. Rustafaria. I was going to say the same fucking name. I don't know. Robert. No, I've said that already. Ron. Ronald.

Ronald. H. Hubbard. John, Ronald. Reagan. John, you got it. It's Ronald. And then Ruel. Oh, Ruel.

Ruel. Oh, I like that. Ruel. Riel. Ruel. Andre Ruel. Oh, God. Don't bring that man up again.

I cannot handle. Anyway. He was born on the 3rd of January in 1892 in Bloomfontein in the Orange Free State, which is now the Free State province in South Africa, to his parents Arthur Ruel Tolkien, who was an English bank manager and his wife, Mabel. We know her name! Yay, Mabel's a good mum name too, I reckon. Even better grandma name.

Mabel, don't you reckon? Mabel's just a great name. Yeah, no, good call. I reckon Mabel's coming back in fashion. I reckon there's going to be baby Mabel. Oh, that's cute, actually. Mabel You're awfully quiet over there Dave

If I had twins I'd call him Cain and Mabel Perfect Perfect I don't know why Just because I'm Sometimes I know when to not talk Oh we know buddy We've built a career on it

Now the couple had left England When Arthur was promoted to the head of the Bloomfontein office of the British Bank Which he was working for at the time And And um... Sounds rich. I'm sure they were fine. I think they were okay.

By the way, J.A.R., he went by Ron or Ronald to his family. So, um, he had, uh, he had a brother as well. He had a sibling, a younger brother,

Hillary, Hillary Arthur Ruel Tolkien. And he was born in 1894. So they're like only two years apart. Um, now when he was three, he went to England with his mother and brother on what was intended to just be, uh,

like a family visit. Apparently both kids had like health issues growing up. and their mum took them back to England thinking that she could just sort of, like, surrounded by her family could kind of like get them a little bit healthier and then take them back to where, that they could handle the hotter climates once they were a bit stronger, apparently. Nurse them back to health in that beautiful, beautiful climate of England. Yeah, instead of the nice, warm South Africa.

The dry air, this is horrible. Yeah, it's no good. For your lungs. Anyway, so they just went back for like a family visit. But unfortunately, his father died in South Africa of, He got very sick and he passed away before he could join them in the UK. I think they were maybe going to be moving back or, I'm not sure. But anyway, they never saw each other again because their father passed away while they were in England.

Yeah, and so this left the family without an income. So his mother took him. That sounds not rich. Not rich. So she took him to live with her parents in Birmingham. And he really enjoyed... Birmingham. No, that's all right.

Ozzy Osbourne. How did he say Zachson go? Oh, is he Birmingham? Do you realize this? Oh, Sharon. Yeah, that's Birmingham, I think. I always tell Sharon a lot. That's the home of like a lot of heavy metal is Birmingham.

It's like a real industrial town. And then north, mid or north, mid, maybe mid England. I like that most of your geography knowledge comes from music. Yeah, pretty much. That's not bad. Like, at least you got some geography knowledge. That's true. Yeah.

That's true. You know, I don't, I got nothing. So he really liked exploring some of the surrounding areas, which people would later say inspired scenes in his book, books. And he even had, there was one of his aunt, his aunt Jane had a farm called Bag end, which he then went on to use in Lord of the Rings. Bilbo Baggand. Is that it?

No. His name's Baggins. Okay. Fuck. He lives in Bagand. Oh, really? Yeah. That's really stupid.

The thing is, as well, that people are probably going to listen to this, being Big Lord of the Rings fans. I'm so sorry. No, I'm only teasing. I'm going to go watch these movies. I love you guys. And you're stupid. And you're stupid baggand. They would probably be thinking like, oh, this will be interesting.

And we're like, blah, blah. Yeah. Here's the most basic things. Yeah. The Lord of the Ryeing? Oh, my good. Am I saying that right? Sounds odd.

Rines. They're all odd. I don't think any of those people haven't got this far in the episode. Yeah, you're right. So Mabel taught her two children at home

and Ronald was a very keen pupil. She taught him a great deal of botany and this is where his love of nature really started all his entire life. He really loved nature and the outdoors. So there's more nature versus nurture. Yeah, absolutely. He liked to draw landscapes

and trees, but his favourite lessons were those concerning languages, and his mother taught him the rudiments of Latin very early on in his education. He could read by the age of four and could write fluently soon afterwards. His mother encouraged him and allowed him to read lots of books. He disliked Treasure Island and the Pied Piper and thought Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll was amusing but disturbing. So he's a little bit uppity, even. even as like a five-year-old.

Yeah, he's like a, he's a literature critic at a very young age. Amusing, but not life-changing. Sorry? A bit of light reading. Do you want some more breast milk, mate? Your baby? I'd try and bring down his ego. Yeah, and he's like, no thank you.

No, thank you. An amusing offering. What do you have in an almond milk or a... Ahead of his time? Yeah. Mom, can you change your diet a little, please? Because this isn't pleasing me. Getting a little tangy aftertaste.

Mother, dear, Mabel. Enough of the asparagus dinners, mother. Your urine tastes awful. I love that he's really arrogant with his reading that he drinks piss. In 1904, when Ronald was 12, his mother died of acute diabetes at Fern Coed. Oh, acute diabetes. Should have changed that diet. Oh, adorable diabetes.

That is a joke that I would be. make and you would go, oh, that's fucked. You can't do that. That's fucked. Nah, this is olden days enough, I think. You do it about stuff in living memories. If the people are still around who you're saying, ah, your baby died, I think that's no good.

But if it was, no, all right, look, you're right. This is 1904. That is a very faint line to draw. Yeah, but it's interesting. Sorry, Jess. I'll ask you to edit that out later. So people don't know about my dark soul. But I will definitely leave that in.

So now he is an orphan? He's an orphan. Do you like that, Matt? Does that amuse you? All I heard was acute diabetes. I wasn't paying attention to that. His mother died of acute diabetes. And you know how old she was?

You want to know how old she was, too? 69. No. I mean, you're asking the question like it'd be, I don't know. Well, just an age to die, maybe. Oh, oh, what's a good age to die? Is that what you mean? Yep.

She was about 34. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. How old are you turning this year, Maddie? Oh, I can't. Who can't say? I mean, you get this age, you can't keep track. Man, honestly, my mind is like mush.

So she was 34 at the time, which is about as old as Matt, as a person with diabetes type one could live without treatment because insulin would not be discovered until two decades later. Oh, that is fucking unlucky timing. Yeah. So she passed away. Are you saying, see, this is where your inconsistency really shows. Here we go.

Did she die young? Jess? I would just say she had a good innings, I would have said. See you later, Mabel? Yeah, I mean, you can't expect to live forever. 34, that's all right. Jeez. I mean, she must have done a lot.

She traveled? Yeah. She lived abroad for a bit. She had some kids. Yeah. It's time to go. Time to go. Next person's chance.

Come on, mate. Come on, Mabel. You're holding space now. She died very young, Jess. Basically an infant. Yeah, she was young, as were her children. Wow. So now they're...

She had kids at that age. She did really do a lot. She got it done. She got... She must have got on it early. What's it? The D. I was like, where's he going to go?

Oh, he's got to go, but literally for... Now, look, I... She got on the D. There were two ways there I could have gone. Something inventive and funny. Or the exact place that Dave was sort of trying to draw me to. Yeah, the obvious joke, which is where you like to go.

Anyway, I don't know why I'm being mean, I'm sorry. That's because you're a bitch. So just to summarize, his mother has now died. His mother is dead. I'm glad that's probably for you, Dave. Jeez. He did want to summarize that. his mother is dead.

Now, prior to her death, she had assigned the guardianship of her sons to a close friend. Father Francis Xavier Morgan, who was assigned to bring them up as good Catholics. Do not trust this guy. He was lovely. Well, I don't trust him.

He's a father figure to them. Yeah, father... Bigger. Yeah. Yeah, but he wasn't their real dad, was he? Oh, because their real dad died. Exactly. And where was this guy?

Yeah. Matt and I are thinking on the same page. Father Francis, get up. Get up. Get up. And admit your crimes. Put your hand up, finger yourself. Let everyone know. How can he put his hand up and figure yourself at the same time?

One hand up, finger the other with the other. And with your third hand, thumb yourself too. You did the crime. You do the... Figuring. That's how the saying goes. Isn't it? So he's a lovely guy.

He's lovely. While he was in his teens, Tolkien had his first encounter with a constructive. language, which was Anamelic, which was an invention of his cousins, Mary and Marjorie. And so they sort of created their own language. Now, their interest in Anamalic kind of died away, but Mary and others, including Tolkien himself, invented a new and more complex language called Nev Bosch. And the next constructed language that he came to work with was Naffarin would be his own

creation entirely. So that kind of makes sense because obviously you don't know a lot about Lord of the Rings, but there's an entire language of Elvish that he sort of created as well around it. Yeah, because he's like a famous linguist as well, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that the language of the trolls? Yep. In 1911, while...

And my axe! Is that in Elvish? Yes, you're speaking Elvish. What does it mean? What's the rough translations, yes? In English, of course. Cup of tea, please. Oh, okay, great.

The tone is so aggressive. Aksh. Is that tea? Is that tea? Is that tea or please? Axsh. Tea. Oh, okay.

You know how when things are translated, like it's sort of, sometimes in different orders to how we would word. Yeah, the sentence construction is wrong in other languages, in my opinion. Oh, wow, okay. This is so cute. In 1911, while they were... Oh, diabetes.

While they were at King Edward's school, Tolkien and three friends, Rob Gilson, Jeffrey Bark Smith and Christopher Wiseman formed a semi-secret society they called the TCBS. Do they just tell people that's called the TC? Is that why it's semi-secret?

The TCBS. Do you want to have a crack? Well, BS is obvious. Is it? Is it just Tolkien chimes? Bullshit. Whatever their names were. All right.

Tea Club and Bavorian Society. Oh. No, Barovian. Tea Club and Barovian Society. So these people invented languages but couldn't even name their society. That's an adorable name, because it just alluded to their fondness for drinking tea.

And cows? Yes. How they hoped the bovines of the world would rise up? Bovine. Borovian. Close. Look, I couldn't remember. You said it so long ago. After leaving school, these guys all stayed in touch,

and in 1914, they held a council in London at Wiseman's home. and for Tolkien, the result of this meeting was a strong dedication to writing poetry. So these are just like friends from school that he's stayed in contact with, the tea club. I think that's so cute. At the age of 16, Ronald met Edith Mary Brat, who was three years his senior. Oh, an older woman. When he and his brother Hillary moved into a boarding house where she lived, according to Humphrey Carpeter, he's done a lot of writing about J.R. Tolkien, he said,

Edith and Ronald took to frequenting Birmingham tea shops, especially one which had a balcony overlooking the pavement. There they would sit and throw sugar lumps into hats of passerbyes, moving to the next table when the sugar bowl was empty. With two people of their personalities and in their position, romance was bound to flourish. Both were orphans. What? Because they throw sugar at strangers together?

Yeah, it's hot. Wow. That's romantic. Oh. They throw it into it. people's hats are people like, fuck off kid. Yeah, it's beautiful. Oh, that's lovely.

That's how romance blossoms. How do you guys do it? Well, I don't want to give away my secrets, Jess. I know you'll steal them. I will steal them. I'm very lonely. I want you to be forever alone. It's good for the show.

For the sake of the show. I've had many offers. Sugary offers? Many sugary offers. Like, hey, baby, you want to come throw some sugar with me? And I'm like, I'm sorry. For the sake of my podcast, I need to remain lonely. Is that where the deaf leopard song pour some sugar

on me. Yes, it comes from Jay R. Tolkien, yes. Yep. In the name of love. Correct. During the summer of 1909, they decided that they were in love.

I like the decision. Okay, so I just do... All right, I think I'm ready. Now I am, all right, yep. Come to a conclusion. I'm going to, I'm choosing now. After careful consideration, I have decided to be in love with you.

They shake hands. Yeah. Thought about your offer? Talk to my lawyer. You said, It's a good investment of my love. And I'm putting it in you. My parents got engaged kind of that way.

They probably won't want me. They listen to the podcast now. But it was basically a conversation of like, so we should probably get married, hey. Yeah, probably, yeah. And engaged. That's great. I like it.

Surely it should be a conversation. It's so weird how the tradition is that one person decides. Yeah, true. And then springs it on the other person. It's quite strange. Hopefully if you're springing on the other person, you have had some sort of conversation. Like a, hey, where are we heading?

Are we on the same page? Yeah, cool. That's why, yeah. Like, I reckon you should, surely you should know the answer before you ask the question. Yeah. That's weird when you see people, those are awful videos that come up in Facebook feed sometimes.

I hate, I just hate the idea of any public. Oh my God, public, no. Put it away. Put it away. Put it away, mate. No way. I would hate that so much. I often think it's people that have no,

like they do nothing else creative in their life. And they're like, well, I know, the NBA grand final, here we go. But it's kind of like. It's like,

no, that is just don't ever do that. And also don't like make a lame video about your love and put it on it. And don't show it to me. Yeah, I don't want to say. It's between you two. But I think maybe like,

what if, what if they discussed and said, you know, what would be so good if you did surprise me at the NBA grand final? Yeah. Next weekend. Off match number three. Next weekend when we both got tickets.

Yeah. I don't know. I just think it's too much. Even then it's like, just don't put that on the rest of the crowd. Yeah, it's... They've got to pretend that they care now. Makes me uncomfortable. I would hate that so much.

Statistically, you're probably going to get divorced. Don't bring that to their buddy. Yeah. This nice, friendly bloody basketball match. Now we're all thinking about divorce. No good. You got that thought on our head. All of a sudden, Shaq's off his game.

Shack can't make a three-point of a shit now. That's Shack. Imagine all the other people. players. They're not as good as Shaq. I don't think Shaq was a great shooter. I reckon Shaq told you to shut the fuck up. Shack off, mate.

Yeah, shack off. What a load of Bavarian society. Nailed it. That's all right. Barovian. There we go. Bavarian apple. Oh man, I love it.

Chocolate Bavarian. Favorite dessert ever. When I go to pancake par, I usually get Bavarian apple. It's like stewed apple and cinnamon. On some pancakes. I'm bloody yummy. Anyway. So, Edith and Ronald have decided to be in love.

What do you think of the name, Edith? Not a fan. One of my best mates' name. I mean, love it. Oh, I've met Edith. She's the best. She's great. So maybe it's because of her that I'm just a big fan of the name.

Yeah, but does she, does she shorten it at all? I call her death for short. Sick. Or death. Or, yeah, anyway. No, I've met her and she is cool, actually. Yeah, she makes that name cool. Yeah, all right.

No, she's kind of, she's won me over a little bit there. actually. I liked her. I like to Eidy is nice. Yeah, Edie's nice. Edie works. Oh, she has options. Actually, I've got, my cousin had a baby and she must be Edith because she's Edy.

Edy. And my grandpa's name is Eddie. And so they like to take pictures together. I'm like, Edy and Eddie, you know, because it's just like one letter different. I think that's true. And I think a photo is the best medium to show that. I could not agree more. Yeah.

Absolutely. It's just an old man holding a baby. Okay. This is going to take some explaining to the viewer, but still. This is going to need a caption. This is going to need a very clear caption. Okay, this is my grandfather. His name is Eddie.

And my daughter, her name is Edie. Clearly. Clearly, there's been some sort of typo. They both can't have the same name except for one letter different. But the thing is that they're pronounced differently. Oh, okay, so it also needs some sort of audio. Okay, video is going to be best, I think. And then a public proposal.

I think we're just maybe going to shelve this project for a while. This is why Tolkien was so fascinated with language. There's just endless things you can do with it. Eddie, Edy. The list goes on. Okay, so Edy and Ronnie are in love. But his guardian, Father Morgan, saw Edith as a reason for Tolkien having muffed his exams. Oh, what is that man?

I bet he was muffin. I bet. Couldn't get enough of the muff. He's a good Catholic boy, excuse me. Yeah. I think Dave means he was eating too many muffins, got crumbs on the exam sheet. That's what Francis meant. Yeah, I think so too.

It's much as a sense. See, Francis, I told you, it was trouble. He hates love. He hates love. He loves hate. Which is hard for him because he doesn't love to love anything. Well, he also wasn't happy that his surrogate son

was romantically involved with an older, Protestant woman. I mean, she was three years older. But at 16, that's a fair gap. You know, nowadays, I'd take anything. You should have seen her fair gap. Oh, three years. alone, Dave.

I expect it better from you. I muffed it up, didn't I? You really muffed it. He muffed that gap. Oh, please edit. He prohibited him from meeting, talking to, or even corresponding with her until he was 21.

In a 1941 letter to his son Michael, Tolkien recalled, I had to choose between disobeying and deceiving a guardian who had been a father to me, more than most fathers, not sure what that means, and dropping the love affair

until I was 21. I don't regret my decision, though it was very hard on my lover. But it was not my fault. She was completely free and under no vow to me, and I should have had no just complaint if she'd gotten married to someone else. For very nearly three years,

I did not see or write to my lover. It was extremely hard, especially at first. The effects were not wholly good. I fell back into folly and slackness and misspent a good deal of my first year at college. Ah, it sounds like he's muffin all day long. Yeah, folly and slackness. That's a euphemism.

You people are disgusting This is really sweet So you think that's what he meant? What do you reckon he meant? Folly and slackness Yeah Because he wasn't with her Yeah he couldn't concentrate

Oh So he got slack Yeah I guess that makes sense It was all like What's folly Something is missing I'm just reading the quote man I don't know

I'm reading the quote between the lines Look if you zoomed in on that letter Jess You would have seen Some text saying What Matt was saying Oh Okay, cool. To mum shut over it again.

All right, so he's not... He's not allowed to speak to her until he's 21. So on the evening of his 21st birthday, he wrote to her, and she was living with a family friend, C.H. Jessop in Cheltenham, and he declared that he never ceased to love her and asked her to marry him. She replied that she had already accepted the proposal of George Field, the brother of one of her closest school friends. Edith said, however, that she had agreed to Maryfield,

only because she felt on the shelf and had begun to doubt that Tolkien still cared for her. she explained that because of Tolkien's letter, everything had changed. Oh, fieldy. So on the 8th of January, no, this is good. It sucks for fieldy? Yeah, fuck it all. But he did go on to form the wiggles, so I guess everyone had a win. On the 8th of January, so he wrote to her on the evening of his birthday,

which is like the 3rd of January. So a week later, he travelled by train to Cheltenham, and he met with Edith, and they took a walk in the countryside. They sat under a railway viaduct. Okay, and talked. And by the end of the day, Edith had agreed to accept Tolkien's proposal. She wrote to field and returned her engagement ring.

So he didn't take her to the NBA playoff game number three? Like they'd always discussed. What a betrayal. Heartbreak. But that is actually very beautiful that they've held the flame for, what, five years? 16 to 21. I mean, sort of, but she got engaged in that time. Which just feels brutal.

She got engaged because she thought she was on the shelter. Well, she thought that he had just sort of given up on her. So, yeah, what a sad time where you're like... Because he wasn't even allowed to write to her. He wasn't, if he could write to her and say, it's cool, babe, still love you. Yeah, but isn't there something a bit wrong about getting engaged to someone when you love someone else?

Yes. It feels gross. I'm feeling for Field. Oh, why? Fuck Field. Well, he's not getting any. Edith certainly isn't. Fields on the shelf now.

Yeah. Apparently. upon learning of Edith's new plans, her friend, C.H. Jess, the one she was living with, wrote to her guardian, I have nothing to say against Tolkien. He is a culture gentleman, but his prospects are poor in the extreme. And when he will be in a position to marry, I cannot imagine. Had he adopted a profession, it would have been different. So he's like, this guy, he's no good, no prospects. No prospects. Well, what does he offer? What does he offer?

Prove him wrong. Is he? No. Following their engagement, Edith reluctantly announced that she was converting to Catholicism at Tolkien's insistence. And again, this friend Jessop, like many others, his age and class, was strongly anti-Catholic, and he was infuriated, and he, like, kicked her out of the house that was sharing.

He's like, you've got to live somewhere else. This is one of my favorite things is how there was a time where Protestants and Catholics hated each other. I couldn't tell you what the difference between the two are. They both believe in Jesus. I think they're both, their Bibles, their book. It's so weird that, like, it just shows how funny humans are, that they just love a difference in an enemy. Mm.

And that just, like, a tiny little split, and that's it. That's enough. Now you just, yeah. Yeah. Is there a different? I know one of them that, I think Protestants' priests can marry, their reverence, right? I have no idea.

I think that's right. And Catholic priests can't. I think that's a big difference. praise can't. That's the big bloody difference. Apart from that. But there's like whole cities that have been like

a Belfast in Ireland. Yeah. Northern Ireland. It's just like it's... Still. Yeah. There's some areas that are blue and some are red.

They're sort of like colour-coded based on religion. I was there in August. So it was like six, seven months ago. And they took us on a tour around Belfast. And like they're still, like these, the walls that they built to divide the communities

are just like enormous. And they're like, oh, it's much better now. We still lock the gates at night. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, it was so strange. It was incredible. Like, it was, yeah, really interesting. But it really hit you as well.

I was like, oh, wow. Beautiful. Beautiful murals, though. Beautiful murals. That was beautiful. And the people. So lovely. Genuinely, they love these people.

Yeah, I had a great time there. Saw the Dropkick Murphy's. Supportable by the Living End. No way. Belfast. It was a real cool gig. That is very cool. Living in in Belfast.

Yeah, yeah. That's pretty sick. So it was, mate, it was so sick. Mate, that's fucking sick. So they were formally engaged in January of 1913 and married at St. Mary's Immaculate Roman Catholic Church on the 22nd of March 1916. Oh, three-year engagement.

I know. They wait these ones. Again, so what's nice about Tolkien is that he's. He wrote a lot of letters to his kids. He had four kids. And so you sort of get like really nice insights into everything, like just because they've actually got like written evidence of what he thought and stuff like that. And so in a letter in the 40s to his son,

he expressed admiration for his wife's willingness to marry a man with no job, little money and no prospects except the likelihood of being killed in the Great War. So he's like, even that, she's still wanted to marry me. That's nice. So speaking of the Great War. Anyway, where's fieldie? Yeah, who cares. What's he doing now?

Who cares? Is he doing well? Fuck off fieldy, no one cares. I bet you he died in the fields. Who cares? I bet you he did. He sounds like the most tragic character I've ever come up. I'm actually not sure what happened to him.

Yeah. Yeah. So we can hypothesize all you like, actually, yeah, if you want. He were going to, I bet you he died. He bet you he died in the war. On the last day of the war. Yeah, they were about to clock off. He was putting his ticket in and going to go, clocking off.

And it exploded the ticket machine. off his hand, bled to death. Very slowly. Tragic. Wow. That's awful. And he was holding in his other hand the engagement ring. Because he never let it.

He never let it go. Oh, but it's fine when the other one does and ever let it go. Oh, I'm giving myself a little spell. Okay, man. I can have a little break? He's pushing the mic away. He's done now. Now he's having a break.

Okay, so I'm going to talk a little bit now about the Great War. And Dave, there's a lot of French names and, um, places in here, so I'll be getting your input, obviously, as the French speaker of the pod. As the translator. Thank you. Official. So, in August of 1914, the United Kingdom entered the First World War. Tolkien's relatives were shocked when he elected not to immediately volunteer for the British Army.

Again, in a 1941 letter to his son, he said, in those days, chaps joined up or was scorned publicly. It was a nasty cleft to be in for a young man with too much imagination and little physical courage. Instead, he entered a program where he delayed his enlistment until completing his degree. So I was like, I'm studying. But once he finished, he was straight in. And he, um... Yeah, when I'm done, I'm so in. I am so, so keen.

Can I take 20 years to do this PhD? Because you'd probably be hoping that by the time you finished, like the war would be over. But that was not the case. So he... I'd really love to, but I'm going to take a gap year. Yeah. I'm just going to travel a bit. I'm deferring and then I'm coming back to finish.

So I'm not technically finished my studies. I've got two more units. I'm going to go part-time. One unit a semester. Yeah. Just so I can really dedicate myself to it. I want to do really well. I want to learn.

Yeah. I'm here to learn. I'm not here to faff about. I'm not here to muff about either. I'm not here to fuck spiders. Still one of the weirdest expressions that I don't understand. I grew up with it as I'm not here to fuck fish. But apparently that's the minor, like no one else says it like that.

Okay. So if you're from overseas, an Australian, phrase. Is it an Australian phrase? Oh, without a doubt. We're not here to fuck spiders. We're not here to muck around. We're not here to waste time.

Yeah. We're serious. We're here for business. Not here to fuck spiders. Yeah. God, we're just linguists, aren't we? Yeah, but don't you think fuck fish is sound, it's way more pleasing.

Is it because of the illiteration? Yeah. Not eat of fuck fish, mate. I like spiders. What do you call me? A fuck fish. Oh, please do go off. So he completed his studies in July of 1915 and he trained with the 13th battalion.

So straight in. For 11 months. Yep. Oh, he did 11 months of training. It's a long time. In a letter to Edith... Often they'd be like, great, you've got your gun. Off we go.

See ya. In a letter to his wife, he complained that gentlemen are rare among the superiors and even human beings rare indeed. Ooh, brutal. Smackdown. Following their wedding, Lieutenant and Mrs. Tolkien took up lodgings near the training camp. In June, he received a telegram summoning him to Folkstone for posting to France, and the Tolkien spent the night before his departure in a room at the Plough and Harrow Hotel in Birmingham. He later wrote, junior officers were being killed off a dozen a minute, parting from my wife then.

It was like a death. He's so beautiful. He just loves his wife. It's so nice. You know? Just a bit dramatic, I think. Oh, you are just... Take it down a notch, mate.

You are a piece of shit. You are dead inside. You have no love. You got a picture that they're talking like this as well. That's not quite right, but something like... It's a real low down, I think, the Birmingham makes something... So that means that his... Oh, da-da-da-bub-bum-gum.

Is that what you think they sound like? That's really a very important. offensive. Apologise to Birmingham right now, please. Hey, sorry, Birmingham. I'm going to mean it like that. This is more of an homage. That's what I need you to know.

I love you your town and the music of your town. A homage. A new wave of British heavy metal. It affected me deeply. I was there for it in the early 1980s. You were, weren't you? I'm wondering. Yeah.

So many great bands came from there. The list goes on. So many. It's all. So on the 5th of June in 1916, Tolkien boarded a troop transport for an overnight voyage to Calais. While waiting to be summoned to his unit, Tolkien sank into boredom. To pass the time, he composed a poem entitled The Lonely Isle, which was inspired by his feelings during the sea crossing. To evade the British Army's postal censorship, he developed a code of dots by which Edith could track his movements.

So he would send her letters with like this code in there so she would know where he was. So you couldn't just write I'm here No he couldn't Because of the army Because of their censorship Because if that was So they'd read this letter

And be like What are these dots mean Don't worry about it Just doodling Are you a spy Nah Checks out If he was like

Hi honey I'm just at this This is my longitude latitude I'll soon be moving northward I imagine the note Wasn't just dots It would have been hidden in there somewhere Yeah

Hey, just checking in, letting you know, everything's going great, having a great time. Dott, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, miss you. Sorry, that was a really long ellipsies. That's not right, is it? That's right. Yes. Another word I'd only ever seen written. All right.

Yeah, so he would, I think that's cute. They had a little, you guys are dead inside. Like, that's so sweet. My girlfriend and I send each other dots all the time. Why does that sound so creepy coming from him? Do you just send a text messages of dot? Yeah. Mainly one is like, you haven't written back.

Do that right now and I want to see what she replies. Okay, so that's fun. Send her four dots. Four dots. Four dots. Four dots? Is that where we are? Yeah, four dots? If you sent me that, I would reply, you drunk DW.

Yeah, I want to see what she says. Okay, I'm sent four dots. Four dots, great. Well, I'll continue and then we'll see if we get a response. So a little bit later in June, he joined his battalion, and he found himself command. enlisted men who were drawn mainly from the mining, milling and weaving towns. According to John Garth, he felt an affinity for these working class men. She wrote back, also with four dots.

Is she also in the studio? Is that what she's trying to say? Same location. I'm going to write back with five dots. And on we go. this is a fun game. But please do go on. He's commanding dudes from the mining town.

Yeah, and so he sort of felt an affinity with these guys. He quite liked them, but military protocol forbade him from developing friendships with other ranks. Has she just sent back five dots? She wrote back, why are you sending me dots? And, or rather ironically there, when she's typing the next message, three dots have come up. And then she wrote, I do not care for them. Now you have to explain it. It's a podcast joke.

No, I'll just leave it. Great, she'll never know. Cool, okay, so he's not allowed to be friends with them, but he quite likes these guys. And then he later lamented, the most improper job of any man is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity. Isn't that beautiful? That's true, those who seek power. Right, Matt?

Bloody power seeker over there. Yeah, I'm playing the long game, and I'm going to take you down and take all the power you have. Rob us of a power. That's true. I have heaps of power. The 27 of October, 1916, his battalion attacked Regina Trench. And Tolkien came down with trench fever, a disease that was carried by lice, which were very common in the dugouts. He was sent to England because he was very sick.

He got quite sick with this trench fever, so they sent him home, basically. To be sent home, you have to be pretty ill, I reckon. Yeah, he was quite sick. And many of his dearest school friends were killed in the war. Among them were Rob Gilson of the Tea Club, who was killed on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, while leading his men into assault. And the other members as well, Jeffrey Smith, was killed during the same battle.

And Tolkien's Battalion Battalion, I always say Battalion. I don't know why. Battalion was almost completely wiped out following his return to England. So he's lost. Wow. So you probably dodged a bullet in a way then. Yeah, by getting really sick. Yeah, wow.

Terrible time. Yeah, and he was quite weak. And he spent the remainder of the war alternating between hospitals and like sort of desk duties, basically. He was deemed medically unfit for general service. During his recovery, he began to work on what he called the Book of Lost Tales. Lost Tales represented Tolkien's attempt to create a mythology for England, a project he would abandon without ever.

completing. But throughout 1917 and 18, his illness kept recurring. So this is after the war. Well, it's not after the war, but like he's no longer, you know, in the trenches. Fucking else. Big Jess. So he, his illness kept reoccurring. He was still quite sick. But he'd recovered enough to do home services at various camps. And it was this time that Edith, I hate, Edith bore their first child. I really hate the word bore. Edith had their first child, whose name was John. Sounds like quite a bore. So in 1920s, this is where we sort of get onto his writing.

So in 1920, he was demobilized and left the army, retaining his rank of lieutenant. His first civilian job after World War I was at the Oxford English Dictionary, where he worked mainly on the history and etymology of words of Germanic origin, beginning with the letter Warnocky. Oh, yeah, wow. German name It starts with W. It's a weird place to start. It's a very specific niche he's got there, isn't it?

I like it. That's his first civilian job. It was like, I'm working at the Oxford English Dictionary. On the dramatic. My first civilian job was Toys R Us as a as just stock the shelves.

That's a good job. Working in a toy shop, is it the dream that everyone thinks it is? No, it's sucked so bad. Really? Christmas casual and they asked me to stay on at the end of January and I was like, nah, I hated it. It was awful. My manager was a dick. So that was his first civilian job. He also, he took up a post as reader in English language at the University of Leeds and became the

youngest professor there. In 1925, he returned to Oxford as Rawlinson and Bosworth Professor of Anglo-Saxon with a fellowship at Pembroke College. and during his time at Pembroke College he wrote The Hobbit and the first two volumes of the Lord of the Rings. So now he's like an academic. He's at the university. And you just start smashing him out.

He's just smashing him out in his downtime. Wow. Because they're long books, aren't they? Yeah, they're door stops. Quite big books. Oh, they're not really that long. They're pretty long. Or am I just thinking, because the movies are long.

Yeah, they're like three hours apiece. Hobbit's probably only a couple hundred pages, 300. I think Lord of the Rings is big, though. But that's all three together. Yes. That is what I'm thinking. That's the copy that my mum has is all three. So the Hobbit, they split into two movies, right?

I think they did three, which was absolute money-grabbing. Because it's smaller than all the volumes of the Lord of the Rings. Right. And they did three on one. Yeah, that's money-grabbing by the sounds of it. What a bummer. I actually never watched The Hobbit. Hmm.

But I probably, like, I don't know. That's just a little fun fact. Fun fact number one. That is fun. That is fun. Then the Second World War was approaching. And in the run-up to the Second World War, Tolkien was earmarked as a code breaker.

In January of 39, he was asked whether he would be prepared to serve in the cryptography department of the foreign office in the event of a national emergency. Please tell me answered in a series of dots. But they had to crack... And if you crack this code, I'll do your job.

I'm in. I feel like that must be harder than anything. A series of dots. How do you crack a code like that? It could be anything. If it's like one of those things where every different letter or symbol means a different letter, dots. It just means, all right, we've figured it out. Dot equals A.

So what he said here is, ah. Hmm. What does it mean, but? I think we might be winning this war. We're clearly getting to the enemy. So Tolkien, Agreed, and on the 27th of March of 39, he took an instructional course at the London HQ of the Government Code and Cipher School. Nali.

I mean, I went to the Melbourne Radio School, but fuck, fuck yeah. Yeah, that sounds real cool. All right. A record of his training was found, which included the notation Keene next to his name, which I quite like. Although Tolkien Scholar Anders Stenstrom suggested that in all likelihood that is not a record. of Tolkien's interest, but a note about how to pronounce his name. Tolkien.

Right, I thought that was so funny. He's not a keen student. It's how to say his name. It's a full minute. Note to self. Say keen. Keen. Peen.

Sorry, they had a little... They did it as a code. They could have written peen because that could have been the rhyming to remind the professor pronounce his name rhymes with peen, rhymes with peen. Tolkien, Pene.

I mean, Tolkien. Tolkien for Paine. Oh, that's good. Hashtag Tolkien for Paine. He was informed in October that his services would not be required. He didn't do that training, didn't need it. Well, you can't take their degree away from him. In 1945, he moved to Merton College, Oxford,

becoming the Merton Professor of English Language and Literature, a post in which he remained until his retirement in 1959, so he was there for a long time. Can I ask, have the books he's written been published yet? I'm onto it. So, yes. So during the World War II, is he famous, is what I'm wondering? Well, no, not really.

The books have been published. So The Hobbit was published in 1937. So, yeah, while he was doing this sort of stuff. But it wasn't, like, hugely successful. I think it sort of had like a slow build. And then the Lord of the Rings was originally written, like, as a sequel. That was sort of the idea of it. It's sort of like a spin-off, you would say, I guess.

Would you say it's like a spin-off? Oh yeah, I guess I guess you could. So yeah, that's sort of how it was supposed to be supposed to be written originally, but then it developed into a much larger work of its own. It was written in stages between 1937 and 1949, and it was first published in 1954,

and it is one of the best-selling novels ever written with over 150 million copies sold. So influences on the story of the Lord of the Rings include... Judas Priest. Yes. philosophy, mythology, religion, and the author's distaste for the effects of industrialization. And Black Sabbath.

He loves it. He loves Black Sabbath. He loves Ozzy Osbourne. Turn! Shut! Oh! I'm trapped in the bathroom again. Sure!

Jack! You've named two of the Osbourne family. Very good. Hello. There we go. He doesn't... A dog. A stupid little dog.

I'm trapped in the mouth with a fucking dog Sharon Fides sharp fire of shat The best is when he couldn't figure out how to use the remote That was the best

The first Poor daughtery old man That other child That other child that refused to be On the show Very good You've got all the references You know

You know what you're talking about Yeah We've got the The Osbourne's episode In The Works Coming up But he's been influenced, Lord of the Rings, influenced by Ozzy Osbourne, et al. At all.

And like, so people have, like, taken a lot out of it. So they've sort of said, oh, it's obviously influenced by his experience in World War I and this and this and this. But a lot of these, um, these inspirations and themes have been denied by Tolkien himself. He's like, nah. He sort of created his son talks about it in this documentary. I watched it was like he created a second world, basically. Like he created an entire universe like within his stories

which is pretty amazing. Now, the Lord of the Rings in its turn is considered to have a great effect on modern fantasy and the impact of Tolkien's work is such that the use of the words Tolkienian and Tolkienesque have been recorded in the Oxford English Dictionary. Oh, I bet he would love that. We would love that.

But only if they'd been under the letter W. Walkanesque. I would appreciate that. And obviously, like, Lord of the Rings has been referenced in lots of art and film and television and all sorts of things. So it's huge. It's won awards across radio, theatre, film. Was it popular right away? I think yes and no.

Like, it wasn't like a sudden boom, but I think it grew in popularity. And it has continued to, obviously, since as well. It feels like, yeah, the movies must have. given it a new... A new audience. It would have introduced it to a new audience, I reckon, absolutely. But in 2003, it was named Britain's best love novel of all time in the BBC's big read. So it's like very, very popular.

Just to tie a little bit as well about his retirement and his later life after he... Yes, was he fucking rich? That's what I want to know. Did he prove all those haters wrong in his lifetime? Well, during his life and retirement, so he retired in 1959 and right up until... And he died in 1973. So right up until that time, he received steadily increasing public attention and literary fame. So it wasn't, that's what I was saying.

It wasn't like a huge boom straight away. It was obviously, it's successful, but it just sort of grew. In 1961, his friend C.S. Lewis, ever heard of him? Even nominated him for the Nobel Prize in Literature. I think they were very friendly and maybe even taught at the same university. I think... C.S. Lewis, which ones? Is he in Wonderland? Narnia.

Narnia. I think... What's the Wonderland goer? Lewis Carroll. Lewis Carroll. Did not get them confused. C.S. Lewis Carroll. Louis Carroll.

Crazy pedophile. Anyway. Oh, wow. Really? Yeah. Alleged. But he's well dead, so I can say it. He's well dead.

I think I could be wrong here, but I do actually kind of remember reading that I think Tolkien taught C.S. Lewis at one point. Oh, okay. I think so. I thought, yeah, that they were close friends. Well, yeah, I think they were probably later, but I think they may have started as, student, or that could have been somebody else, but no, I'm pretty sure it was him. No, I'm thinking, I'm thinking W.H. Orden was taught by Tolkien. That's what I'm thinking of.

Right. There was a time where you just had to be double initialed. Yeah. J.A. Perkins. Sounds shit. J.A. sucks. I don't mind J.A. M.J. Stewart's sick. That's a good one.

Oh, yeah, big time. DJ. DJ Warnocky. Fuck, you guys got it so good. You better believe, DJ. Sounds good. Anyway, the sales of his books were so profitable that he regretted that he'd not chosen early retirement. Like, he's like, I didn't need to work.

At first, he wrote enthusiastic answers to readers' inquiries, but he became increasingly unhappy about the sudden popularity of his books, like, with the 1960s counterculture movement. Like, there was sort of like a boom in the 60s, and it kind of made him feel a bit weird. And fan attention became so intense that he had to take his phone number out of the public directory, and eventually he and Edith moved to Bournemouth, I probably said that wrong, which was then... Bournemouth.

I think, well, I'm saying that I can know, but it feels right. But it's just born, anyway, which was then a seaside resort that was mostly lived in by British upper middle class. And his status as a best-selling author gave him an easy entry into the polite society. But he kind of, like he missed his friends, like his normal people friends. But Edith was like overjoyed to step into the role of a society hostess. She loved it. Which had been the reason that he'd selected. like to live there in the first place because he's like, I'm going to give Edith what she wants,

which is very cute. Edith Tolkien died on the 29th of November in 1971 at the age of 82. According to Simon Tolkien, he said, my grandmother died two years before my grandfather and he came back to live in Oxford. I went there frequently and he'd take me to lunch in the Eastgate Hotel. Those lunches were rather wonderful for a 12-year-old boy spending time with his grandfather, but sometimes he seemed sad. There was one visit where he told me how much he missed.

to my grandmother. It must have been very strange for him being alone after they'd been married for more than 50 years. Isn't that nice? That he was sad and alone. You love people to feel like you. I like to be able to connect. He was appointed, Tolkien was appointed by Queen Elizabeth II, a commander of the Order of

the British Empire in the 1972 New Year honours, and received the insignia of the order at Buckingham Palace on the 28th of March 72. In the same year, Oxford University conferred upon him an honorary doctorate of letters. Tolkien died 21 months after Edith's death on the 2nd of September 1973 at the age of 81, and he was buried alongside her, so they were together forever. Oh, that's not... That is nice. They rot next to each other.

Matthew! And now his family is... We're stuff in their butts. No, no stuff in their butts. Oh, okay. Can't confirm nor deny whether it was an open casket. Good point. Good point.

Cannot confirm nor deny. Oh yeah, that's only open cask. Yeah. Not everyone gets their butt stuffed. Yeah, actually, it'd be very few. I've never been to an open cask if you. I don't want to, ever. No good.

Yuck. Be an experience. I'm not in life for experiences. Yeah, no, fuck for that. So yeah, that brings me to the end of the life of J.R. Tolkien. Wow. Thank you. That is...

I think he sounds really sweet. He does. It was a great life. Quite a life. Now, his family must be swimming in the royalties. I think they're doing pretty well. How long do the royalties last, so? I don't know, 50 years or is that...

I always try and extend it. I think most Western countries, it's 75 years after you die. Right. Okay, so the world are truly still going. So a long time to go. I think they often try and extend it, people say, because of Walt Disney's tie to things. Like, oh, it's 50 years, and then they sort of extend it.

They lobby courts and stuff to try and... The Walt Disney Family Trust or whatever. Yeah, the Disney Corporation so that his creations aren't... That's what I hear is. That's what I hear's. So what does that mean if they go into the public, then Snow White could be made by anyone. Yeah, in all those creations.

Okay. Like, you know, how William Shakespeare, no one gets copyright, you know, royalties from that. Yeah, anyone can read... Yeah, 10 things I had about you. Anyone can have to pay any money to... The state of Shakespeare. Shakespeare.

That's what you said, right? Yes. Never seen it. I only have a seen her written down. Every time we bring up Shakespeare, Jess, has to say Shakespeare. She has to say that and I have to say ten things I had about you. You're one cultural reference. We're contractually obliged to say that.

And it's based on which play, Matt? Taming of Matt's Stu. Oh no, that's another one that's based on something else. I think the gentleman from Verona. Ooh. Two gentlemen of Verona. Great.

Yeah, that was, sorry, the gentleman of Verona that's actually based on my name, Julie. So that brings us to the end, and you know what we always do at the end of the blue one goes? We talk about the things we'd like to have Jess edit out that we said. All this lander, well, no, we would like to thank some Patreon supporters, everyone who chips in a little bit on Patreon.

If you feel like this show is worth a little bit of your manzo, you can go to patreon.com. Just do you go on pop. Your manzo. I'll take your manzo. Hey, manzo. Well, really, it does keep the show going. Oh, it 100% does.

Absolutely tell you that. So even if you can chip in a dollar or two a month, it absolutely does help us. But we would like to thank some of our Patreon supporters out loud on the show. And Jess, who we thank you? All right. Matt, would you like to kick us off and thanking you? Our first Patreon. Yeah, sure.

Oh, let me think. Who do I want to thank? Who's been on my mind, Lately, out of the Patrons? They all sort of filtered through my mind. Let me just pick one out of my brain. That is one thing. You go, we commit your name to memory forever. Yeah.

That's also part of the deal as well, yeah. I would love to thank one of my favorite favorites in the pool of names in my head, Alex Dimmick. Dimmick. Great names. solid name. I believe they're from Norfolk. Yes. Do you know who else is from Norfolk? Who? Dave, do you know who else is from Norfolk? Jess, do you also know who's from Norfolk? Jess, do you know who's from Norfolk?

Dave, any idea who else is from Norfolk? Let me just ask my friend Matt, if he knows. Who's from Norfolk? He's from Norfolk. Jess, any idea who else is from Norfolk? Matt, we've really, like, we've got places to be, mate. Dave, any idea who's from Norfolk? I don't know. No, me neither. But it'd be interesting to know, wouldn't it? Probably Alex's friends. Alex Dimmick? I think Alan Partridge is from Norfolk.

Right, okay. That's where you were fine. That's where you were going. Great. I really was hoping one of you guys would help me out, but not to be. Alan Partridge is presenter of Radio Norwich as well. Oh, is he from Norfolk? He's not.

He's from Norwich. That's where he shows his radio on Radio Norwich. Oh, if I fucked that. No, Alex is from Norwich. Norfolk Fuck Alex I'm so sorry

about everything Is this what you wanted Alex Is this worth your money I would like to Dave if you don't mind I'm going to I'm going to do one

And then we can finish Strong with you Because you know I'm bad at this I would like to thank A very good friend of ours A frequent tweeter too I think

Because this name I was like Oh hello I know this name I know this person And so I would like Very From the bottom of my heart

my cold dead heart, I would like to thank the second most famous Swift Jordan Swift. Jordan Swift. We can all agree. After Swift and Shift Curie is the SPS spin-off from Fat Pizza.

Exactly, yep. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Swift. Then Jordan Swift. Then the Suzuki Swift. And then the Netball team, the Swifts.

Swift's. Which is the whole family of Swifts. Yeah, it's so weird. They keep it in the family. Sydney Swift's, right? I think so. And then Jonathan Swift, of course, Gulliver's Travels Rider. Yep.

Yeah. Yep. And then that's about it. So he's number two in that list. Yep. Wow. Who's number one? Suzuki Swift.

No. Oh, Swift and Shift. Obviously. Swift and Shift Curious. Yeah. So thank you very much to Jordan, the second most famous Swift. And we really appreciate your support new listening. All right.

So we started with an Alex. We went with a Jordan. Yep. And we're going to finish with an Alex. Oh. That's a Jordan Alex sandwich. So if your name is Alex and you support our page, Toronto, is it going to be you?

Oh my God, there's probably heaps of you. There's a very popular name. We've now have done two on one episode. It'd be unlikely if I didn't thank you, wouldn't it? So, I don't know, there could be like two or three other Alex is going, is it me? Is it me? That actually reminds me. I'd really love to thank Alex Dimmock.

Oh, boy. I would like to thank Alex, and I'm going to go with this pronunciation, Alex Backey. Bacchie. All right, I'm going to have a stab. I'm going to say Alex Batchie. B-A-C-H-Y Batchy Bacchie as

As known to his friends Bark Or she I like Yeah It could be barky Probably not barkey Bit of our J-S-Barky

But it could be Alex is batchy crazy I like I think that's That's got to be it What about Alex Wacky Tabaki Oh yeah

Yeah that's better Wacky tobacco Wacky to Backe Or if you're not into that Alex no wacky tobacco There we go It works in it On every level

So thank you very much. All the way from Pennsylvania. I reckon they might run for governor of Pennsylvania one day, and that'll be there. That'll be their undoing. No, no, that'll be their motto. That'll be their slogan. No, wacky tobacco.

No, no, wacky tobacco. Oh, sorry. I want to legalise. Oh, my God. Yeah. And also, go penguins at the end of every speech. Yeah, great. You got to.

That's how you get people on board. So thank you to Alex Jordan and Alex. Alex for breakfast. What a radio team. I think so much. It's going to be hard because some of you are in Norwich and Norfolk and ones in Pennsylvania. No, but like there's ways to get around it these days. You know, modern technology.

Skype. Time machine. For example, pulling back the curtain a little bit, I do a segment on radio and I'm in Melbourne and the other two are in Sydney. Nobody knows. Can't hear. I hear. Oh, I hear. You can hear the slightly better coffee coming from your end of the conversation. You can hear the better weather on their end of the conversation.

Yeah, you can. And the beautiful harbour. It balances out. We really don't have a lot to hang out. You can hear the culture down our end of the line. You can hear the coffee. I'm sorry, Jess, can you just turn down the wank on the microphone? Your wank levels are going crazy today.

Correct. So I used to know a sound guy when I was in bands. And when people would say, can I have more of my vocals in the foldback? Or can I have more of this? He would have an extra channel with like a fader that goes up and down. that would have nothing on it and he would go, yep, and they would see him putting the fader up

and they'd go, yep, that's great, thank you. And he'd just call it like the wanker fader. Oh, that's great. Sorry, I'm getting too much drums. Yep, no worries. Fader up, nothing's happening. Nothing has changed. That's great.

Oh, interesting. I think that's pretty funny. That's pretty funny, but I mean, that's just a psychological thing. It's the bloody placebo effect. Correct. So he's making fools of them. Correct.

Because they probably didn't need to hear more of themselves. But maybe they did, and they just thought, you know, they didn't want to be, they didn't want to pest him beyond that. Pester him. But we do have to end the, you suck. You got to end the, you fucking suck. I know.

We're going to end this week's topic right there. Can I have less Jess in my headphones, please? Yeah, sorry, do you want me to, is that good? Yeah, that's better. Thank you. That's better. We have turned Jess's microphone off. So good luck saying bye this week, Jess.

But thank you so much for everyone. support us on Patreon. All our social media links are always in the description of the episode. But if you would like me to read them out, here I go. At do go on pod for Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. We love to hear from you every single week. And we've got do go on pod at gmail.com. Hey, Jess, come say goodbye on my mic, Mike.

Sort of like Paul and George style. I'm here now. Love, love me do. Ooh. Wait, do we say goodbye? No, I'm going to say, from me, Oh, waiters. Goodbye!

Bye! Okay, guys, we're just dropping in here to tell you an exciting development through our Patreon now. A couple of episodes ago, we mentioned, I mentioned, I volunteered very excitedly to hump and headbutt. He could not put his hand in up high enough. English is fun. I volunteered to hump and headbutt, the old H&H, a topic, or not a topic, an object of your choosing.

Well, not really your choosing, but we'll give you three options, and we have just put those options up on Twitter. Huh? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know why you did this to yourself. Yeah, and then, like, kept fighting us to... Like, he's insisting we follow through on this, so... I'm giving the people what they want.

They want me to hump, they want me to headbutt. How long are you going to hump it for? Obviously it depends on the object. Are we doing this live? I imagine that we'll be some editing just in case it goes horribly wrong and I somehow injure myself. Or impregnate some fruit. Could be fruit or it could be two other options. So what we feel?

Now, one of the options is, was put forward sort of by Zach Shepard on Twitter. he suggested a lemon meringue pie and you heard that and you heard my message I said, Zach Shepard's got this great idea and you heard me say shepherd's pie basically. Yeah, you said shepherd, you said pie and suddenly I'm thinking of Shepard's pie. So you've morphed it

and obviously if you're going to have a shepherd's pie there's only one Akutramont that's not right is it? That's like near a word that's right. Let's go with that. There's only one accoutrement and there's only one Japanese, a kutrimon, and that is, of course, garlic bread. Yes.

So one of the options is Shepherds pie and garlic bread, hump, headbutt, and I reserve the right to eat or not eat. Are they all edible? They are all edible, because option number two is porridge, instant porridge, which, as we all know, Matt, your opinion on that kind of porridge is. It's not how you met porridge. It's not how you make porridge. So I don't know how you hump or headbutt porridge, but we'll come to that bridge when we come. So one of them's a two-parter. Yeah.

So what are you going to do, the garlic bread? Are you going to hump the pie, then hump the garlic bread, then headbut the pie, then headbut the garlic bread? Look, part of the terms of conditions is I get to choose my order, all right? Okay. Fair enough. I am doing this just because I'm desperate for more footage in my show reel. Sure. This is the good stuff.

I'm trying to get into Hollywood. I think this is what they want. If we have any listeners in Hollywood, especially anyone who is looking for someone to hump and head butt in Hollywood. Is your first name either? Stephen or Spielberg. First name's Spielberg. Spilberg, Donahue. It's a plumber.

It's a plumber. Also, if your name is Stephen, I would like to hear from you. Option number three is, it's a classic. It's a classic humpet headbutt maneuver. Probably the most painful, but the least messy in my account is a watermelon. All pretty messy. We're going to have to put down a tarp. Well, I have to be, is it a whole watermelon?

If you're headbutter, you're going to have to break it open. I'm picturing a whole melon. This is a weird, very long drop-in we've done here. But what I'm trying to say is the Twitter poll is now open, so anyone on Twitter can vote for it, and then anyone who submits anything from a dollar up on our Patreon page, will be able to watch the video once the poll has closed. And we've either cooked the porridge, the garlic bread, the shepherd's pie,

or bought a watermelon. Please choose watermelon. It's just easier for us. Someone suggested an encyclopedia off the Twitter. You didn't go with that one as an option. That would have been a lot less mess. I'd be done there going for edible things apparently. Sorry, of course.

I would never disrespect the encyclopedia. Point is, vote now on Twitter. Vote now. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want, it's up to you. Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there.

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