Don't Blame Me! - Bad Dog Parent = Bad Human Parent?

Episode Date: July 6, 2023

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🎵 Hi, hey, hello everybody! Welcome to... But- Them. Hi. Don't. We're here.

for a long time and a good time i love that i love that attitude of that vibe hell yeah this is but am i wrong were we two people who have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever been wrong ever ever ever ever ever do you know that song in theory i'm sorry miss jackson i am for real yeah now you turned it into bloopity bloop music that you talk about what do you call it shoo-wop yeah that's what you did i shoo-wop a lot of things and you know what i don't even like you hate it but i believe you love it no it's a it's a drug and it's it's an it's infectious and it's an infestation yeah pop and lock it i love it so i didn't mean to

on like that. While you were maintaining eye contact with me, I was very, very, very uncomfortable. So welcome to another episode. If you are brand new here, I'll give you a quick little rundown. Because we are two people who have never, ever been wrong about anything ever, we've decided to bestow those gifts upon you, the public. And we read your email submissions and you tell us, am I wrong in the situation? We'll tell you. We also share things in our own life. Like, are we wrong in the situation? Or we can do hot takes, just rants. And then finally, we also nominate people who are just objectively wrong who we may or may not have any ties to but it's usually just in the news something fun like that or it's not fun but you know collectively

we just go boo tomato tomato and then i take a nice firm fresh off the vine tomato fresh off the vine and throw it at them yeah i'm doing an old like i'm doing like when i pick it up it almost disintegrates in my hands i want it to hurt i want it to embarrass i want there to be some shame and i want it to be sticky and then us together pain and stickiness some people like that some people like that i do a little bit okay well uh we also are on patreon if you would like to support the show and you can watch the video version there you can see how cute we look we are back together and uh you can also join our live streams i have a question for people it just came to me okay is anyone interested in us doing just audio that you pay for like you're like i'm at i'm

in the car now oh yeah and i don't want to watch the video but i would like to listen to y'all without ads is anyone interested in that oh let us know you can if you're in our facebook group right in there send us a dm so yeah we've got three segments do you remember who went oh and then also one of the best parts i can't believe i almost forgot these episodes go out on thursday and usually on friday hopefully on fridays we open up the voting for all of you so you know we say who we think is wrong we post our instagram stories from every segment and you can vote in them and let us know if you agree disagree who you think is wrong and we read the results on our friday episode called fishing friday oh yeah that's what the crowd says they go oh do that

again and then we said next friday okay so our first segment is but am i wrong where we pitch to each other either hot takes or rants something going on in our own life that we're wrong about i think i supposed to go first right you are you know i debated talking about my personal life But I'm not going to. If you could see the face, that for her was a face of, good God, don't do it. Don't worry, I'm not.

I'm not. So, I swear to God, if this is a hot take, I think it's a hot take in the sense that it's happening far too often for everybody to have the same thoughts that I do. But I refuse to believe that our audience

is one of these people. Okay? stop selling things that you got for free for money this is an origin of a facebook marketplace rant oh i thought it was gonna be a kardashian rant oh no they do it every they all do it but so i'm gonna say right off the bat i do think i am i'm always hypocritical i've always got a caveat i think gifts are different if someone gave you a gift for like a personal friend like for your whatever if you want to sell that go for it like because the gift was going to you know I mean like someone spent their own money on giving you a gift if you want to be petty about something do

whatever that I don't have to think you have to donate something like that but influencers do it they'll they'll sell things they got in PR I've literally had people who I've sent things that like when I did stuff that they then went to sell and I'm like okay cool and that to me is just baffling. Never. It's just so unprofessional. And people get taken off the PR list for doing that immediately. But the part that feels to me the most egregious is people on Facebook Marketplace saying, selling this lamp from Wayfair, originally $300, selling for $190 or $200. the it when it shipped and it arrived this one piece was missing and the other was broken so they're sending me a new one and i go you are selling a product that is not functional this

is not about your chair that's what it seems like no no that is not functional and then you are saying that it's not fun and like if you want to sell it for 20 bucks go for it and someone can spend the money to like fix x y and z or whatever but when it's something that's like they're just sending you a new one and the cost to fix or whatever is the price of someone buying the full price item with the return policy and all of that stuff no no no there's a mathematical equation there you well you were going to sell your what do you call it massage chair for not the price the cost would not be the difference to fix it correct just i mean it's also like she hasn't sold it no but it also functions perfectly fine without the piece that is missing and

like if someone again they want to sell something for like 50 bucks that's originally like 500 dollars or like a couple hundred bucks and it's like oh it's just missing this one thing and like i could go out and buy it but they're replacing it for me like and i'm not gonna you know whatever something that's like a quick simple little fix like that that completely fine because you are the to me it's like the time versus effort equation and like the materials for it and those need to add up and then you're solid but if you're telling someone that like half of this thing is shattered you don't know how to fix it you don't know what they would do but here you go. It goes, you've given me a pro I just paid for a project. That's true. And I'm

probably going to spend as I'm going to spend as much money if I bought it full price as is functioning with a return policy. And then some people are like firm. And I go, this was free. Like, what do you mean firm on price? Like, you don't even know how to fix like, it just drives me crazy because there's a way to do it. There's an ethical way to profit off of face companies you know how many hours a day do you spend on facebook marketplace oh that is a number i could not calculate is it because i brought it up like nine times today yep i love the facebook marketplace i'm a big fan i'm not but specifically the place that i find this happening the most and i should specifically say this and why it pisses me off the most

is in lights and it's like does not work not sure how it works like but i'm getting replaced but like if you can you can fix it like two hundred dollars i go why not working give it a give it away if you can't figure out how to make it work you're telling me to pay for something that i might not ever even be able to fix i saw someone selling a bed which i was the appropriate customer because there are some of these beds that are the big four poster ones and i go i don't want two of i'm gonna slice one of those off but you know it's like am i gonna get roasted on four poster beds like the big four but what do you mean you only want two of them like on the two the ones that'll go against the wall and then i could like make the other ones a little bit lower like a two

poster bed got it and i was like you know or sometimes some of them like the chow mein bahama ones just have like a big pineapple and i go i want the pineapple so you know a little slice right under there shave it sand it down but that's frowned upon and i'm like you know someone might want the whole bed as is but someone was selling one that like they literally they kept showing only really half of the bed and then the last picture it goes oh one of them is just kind of like hacked off in half and then they have a grin at the bottom like oh yeah like slight damage like if you see the final one slight damage like definitely seems fixable and it's like it's not fixable and it was like five hundred dollars for a diy woodworking project but it still doesn't

get me as much as the fucking lights that don't work why would i what am i paying for the hope of electricity that's infuriating to me also because i'm already nervous i've never bought a light secondhand because i'm like convinced that it won't work yeah but like why would i buy one that i know for sure doesn't work and i'm just supposed to suddenly become an electrician and figure it out please don't i'm scared for you if you did there is no way in hell i would my hands are too big can't be a dentist can't be an electrician there are men that have hands bigger than yours that are in both of those professions well i don't know about that i don't know about them i only know about me well well that's you're not wrong and the reason you're

not wrong in my opinion is because facebook marketplace just scares me as a whole yeah uh there's a couple times where like i go to like message seller about something i like and i see the profile picture and i see the oakley sunglasses and i go maybe i'll send this listing to moths and have him message but a lot of it is just scams anyway yeah i'm pretty good at sniffing those out though yeah you can usually tell like if you click on their profile and then read and you're like this is fake yeah but moth gets like he like i have to be the one doing especially the selling because like he gets so frustrated and i'm like it's a scam just don't respond he's like i want them to know and i go they know it's a scam they're conducting the scam you're not about

to change hearts and minds nope he thinks he can get to them thinks he can change them yep well mine this week is a rant i love it and it's about airplane etiquette airplane etiquette first stanky wear socks i don't know how many times i have gone through tsa and i just see people raw dog in the floor sometimes they'll even have sneakers on and take their sneakers off without socks or just wearing flip-flops why are you wearing flip-flops on a plane absolutely disgusting two please arrive early what's your early two hours i know i'm telling you right now as someone with zero concept of time i don't disagree with that get there two hours early because you rushing not my problem if there's things malfunctioning if you would

got here early this wouldn't have been a problem three when the flight is called do not stand up unless you're in the first boarding group what's the point why why are you making the line why is the line down the whole freaking hallway just sit down wait two years call we're all going to the same fucking place you getting in line is not going to make us get there any faster same when getting off the plane three when you're on the plane wear a mask even in the airport wear a mask and I'm not just I'm not talking about COVID I know that it has been declared that we're no longer in a pandemic so the thing is before covid people would be like take some emergency or airborne before you get on a plane because everybody gets sick why don't we all just

wear masks what is the what is wrong with that it protects you from all the smelly things on the plane as well wear a mask people are farting megan's farting on the plane i am i'm fart i'm not holding it in for you two i'm gonna be wiping down my seat so just be patient again we're all going to the same place you standing there for a couple seconds isn't gonna speed isn't gonna make me move any faster or go any slower i'm gonna be wiping down three i'm short and if i see you putting your i think you said three for the last four of them okay whatever that's bad four five I don't know whatever fucking number I'm on I'm short yeah sometimes I need assistance putting my overhead thing in so if you were taller than me and I just saw you do it most people do they'll

help me out but don't get frustrated with me if I'm trying to reach up and I can't reach or I have my backpack on and it's holding me down so I can't fully put my suitcase up that makes me sweat not just thinking about that like i hate that shit when you like you're like but i'm being dragged down but i have to go up yes what else do not bring food on the plane that smells really bad yeah and guess what you can also wear a mask and then whatever smells you might think other people are very pleasant no no but i'm saying like it does even if you're a very sensitive person that like you're like i don't like people eating anything even something like an apple with that mask on diluting that smell a little bit whatever number i'm on keep your socks and shoes

on on the plane at all times at all times i don't need to see your little like toesies i don't need to see the little piggies out at any time especially when you're walking to the bathroom because the water in the bathroom is not water it's not water that's disgusting four five six seven eight nine ten do not put your little toesies on the armrest where i can see it in between my seat and i look back and i feel it or i feel a little tickle on my ankle a little dick like it's like a jump scare you go my god whose penis is that i feel a little tickle on my ankle because you're stretching out your toes put something under there get one of those feet hammocks yeah what else do i have issues with on planes most people fair yeah be nice to the flight

attendants flight attendants if you're gonna make jokes be funny do not sing feedback on those little mics are so bad not just flight attendants but everybody on the plane totally but the flight attendance i'm like i believe that you're a fantastic singer but i'm telling you right now the acoustics here are not good and now i'm angry no if there's turbulence don't talk i don't want to hear people just kiki in a way having a good time this is a time for us all to be quiet i know it doesn't affect the pilot really because they know what they're doing but yeah for me it's like they're focusing look at me gender binary he well if they're turbulence i'm thinking that it's a personal failure but i think of it in the same way i don't know if you've ever been driving

yes and you're like i need to turn the volume down every day i'm like i gotta focus i gotta turn the volume down yeah same thing everybody shut up and i think that's a good enough list for now i would like to add one on for you if you want to watch or listen anything if you don't have headphones you're no longer allowed to watch that's true even a game that a child is playing oh a child can play that game if you turn the volume on i don't care yes i don't care you need to purchase some headphones for there needs to be that gone and then something i would like to see more of on planes i really love when people laugh when they're watching movies on planes out loud like when people are watching something and you like you can like see someone like giggling

because a lot of people are like oh i don't want to like watch so so many fucking people watch movies are like not too sad or like not too funny but like i've sat next to like old people who are like laughing not like loudly laughing but like you know a fun little chuckle to some to some movie and i'm like look i'm enjoying the energy hard disagree because again as a nervous flyer i just need whatever i'm hearing and then the captain and the flight attendants that's all i should be here oh see i'm a nosy passenger i do look at other people's what they're watching but i don't want to hear their reaction to what they're oh no i also want to see but i want to see people smiling and chuckling do you want to hear something the craziest thing i've ever heard

seen in my life what on a flight by the way i take my shoes off on flights but i wear my socks and you i put additional socks on over my socks so the socks that have been walking which my feet aren't like sweaty feet the socks that i've been wearing they those socks get socks that stay on the plane and those socks you see how i sit those socks never touch the fucking floor great and then those socks when i put my shoes on i put those socks away in my bag and then i put my shoes back on i gotta cuddle up sometimes if i wear sneakers then i'll just keep them on the whole time but i watched a guy on a flight to europe sit there no headphones no movie i like fucking 11 hour flight something like that coach because this wasn't a work trip we were we were coach and he was just

on his calculator app and he would type in some numbers and then he would pause and he'd like look up and he'd think and then he'd like delete numbers and type again and add all this up for 11 hours and sometimes it would be like 70 found it 70 000 minus four and then he'd like look at it and goes plus two and then like times three minus 47 i'm like what are you doing but i every time i went up to go to the bathroom he was still fucking at it and i made mods go when he went i was like look at the guy he goes yeah still and i so badly wanted to be like what were you calculating because like in my mind i'm like are you solving i don't know that you creating like the quantum realm like what is this or are you just trying to figure out like car payments like maybe you know i've said

that algebra calms me so maybe they just like typing away in their calculator app but then what is he doing the thinking part because it was like he was doing mental math and then going and now calculator math i don't know but one time we got up to 174,600 and i'm like what is it anyways let him live his life i did i enjoyed watching it and that's what i'm saying so like for me i love other people's business on airplanes but i should it should be silent business oh here's another one and this is a message to the airlines put tops on the drinks i don't understand why we don't have tops on drinks because again turbulence and then you're reaching across people to give them their beverages and i can count at least two times

where a little slippy slip i've gotten spilled on if it's a short flight like three four hours i'm just holding my pee because i don't want to use those bathrooms you and me both so the drink wasn't for me yep and now i have it in my lap oh and psa don't have tea or coffee on planes no uh it's disgusting it's it's the toilet water it's not the thing that you drink on the ground and there are certain things that things should be different when you're in the sky but ingestibles like that no i like kind of miss airports but like i don't want to go anywhere i just like you want to be one of those people that just go to the airport to eat a meal depends on the airport but like i kind of want to go to the chicago airport and just like

have some popcorn sure that's what they're known for maybe that popcorn you know i i would like to go to the detroit airport for fun but not for function i want someone to drive me there and i want someone to drive me home unless i just never been to chicago i mean i have been to chicago numerous times but no i would say salt lake city and detroit and here's the thing this coming from someone who's like home ones or sfo and lax like i get those are for anyone who's not from shitty like the way that other people view that is how i view like la guardia and jfk but to me what take the cake salt lake city and detroit beautiful airports good god they would be wonderful places if i didn't have to use them as an airport i was like we just had a conversation

about this but it was on our patreon join our live streams that was the tamest conversation we've had in a while it was on the same thing yeah and then we went into a deep dark yeah triple hole that for anyone who saw that tiktok i didn't about three hot dogs triple pleasure one bun we got into it all right now we're gonna take a break and we're back and it's time for our next segment which is but are you wrong wow what is that what what does what does that entail manza that's when you are listeners write in to but am i wrong pot at gmail.com and you're like i've got a story to tell and i'm keeping it 300 words or less and if i can't get it to 300 words or less i'm gonna get

into some ai and be like hey i make this 300 words or less and then you're gonna send it to us at butamirongpod at gmail.com like I already said and then we may choose it. Hell yeah. Okay. Hey Eminem. I'm 32 female. My friend Sarah 30 and she and her husband Nate 32 got a puppy Fido. Nate had dogs growing up but this is Sarah's first pet. I've noticed he pushes a lot of the responsibilities onto her. First they were both attending puppy classes but he stopped going because he quote-unquote didn't like the trainer. They're both getting Fido baths but now she does it alone because he was doing it quote unquote wrong. I was visiting her and Nate told her that the dog had an accident. Sarah cleaned it up even though she had company and he was doing nothing.

Those are just the things I've seen. She mentioned feeling overwhelmed but hasn't explicitly complained about Nate's behavior until yesterday. She said that Nate takes out his frustrations on Fido. I don't believe he physically harms Fido, but he yells at him if his basketball team loses. Oh my God. Baseball. Baseball. If his baseball team loses or other stupid reasons. She gets nervous because he blames her if Fido misbehaves. This summer, they planned to start trying to get pregnant, so I asked her if this behavior makes her worried he'll be the same way as a parent.

I pointed out the examples of things that would concern me. She kind of thought it was ridiculous I would compare a pet to a child. I obviously know children take way more work, but it's the principle. When I was dating my now husband, I had two geriatric Pomeranians. I don't think I've ever seen that combination

of two words together. I absolutely paid attention to how he interacted with them and helped with their care. I used that as a predictor of how he may act as a parent. With Nate, I see weaponized incompetence and other concerning behavior was i wrong to compare pet care to parenting and suggest that they address these issues before becoming parents thanks love the pod note if i ever find out nate is physically hurting find out fido and sarah will be living with me and they will be dead

i think that last statement is solid and uh i'm happy to be your alibi so reading just like the on i'll say on paper but like no this is on paper but like i think like in a telling of the story to someone else like retelling of this i would go like yeah out of you know can't really say that things about other people but that's it in the terms of like you know what is morally the correct thing to do but like i think the friends that i would i want and the people in my life i would want someone to tell this to me you know even if i think that like maybe it can be a little bit uncalled for or rude or not your place i say shit that's not my place like you know and i think it's just a matter of like that but I think it's a little alarming that she thinks it's ridiculous

to compare pets to children which it's true but that if he's not a good pet parent that he will not be a good child like children take far more work than pets so to me that's just like you know but I don't like some I'm not I don't want to say I'm not an animal lover like I like some like but I'm not like I was never that kid who like bled out for animals mostly because I got attacked by dog when I was three. And I'm also, you know me, I'm a jumpy. I'm a skittish person. I don't like bugs. I'm jumpy. So I don't bleed out for animals. I have some animals that I really, really like. But if I was a partner who didn't really want them, I would probably put more of the responsibility on the other partner. But it's less to me about how he treats the dog or how he is being a dog parent

and more about how she's letting it all happen that I think is a far worse indicator in their, them as parents or their relationship as a parent. Like, I think it's a communication issue to me. So I think that like, yeah, it's attractive when you see the person you're with bear responsibility and, you know,

do all of that kind of stuff. But if she's unhappy with the situation with how they're divvying up the dog responsibilities, and she's saying nothing about it, that will happen with kids because it's less about, oh, well, maybe he won't do it. It's even if he does do it, she's not going to say anything. You know what I mean? I don't think you're wrong for comparing it because, you know, she brought it up and like I would do the same thing. But I think on like terms of is it impolite and not really your place to say that? Yes. But again, there are times that I will

do say things that i think are impolite because it's like more important to me to say it than to be polite you know i mean yeah but i think when you're talking about people's kids or future kids it's not ever your place to say anything and i know people that like i have a friend that recently was telling me about how their dad absolutely like did not like their pet girl their pet dog growing up and didn't want any of the responsibilities but they were excellent dad and like and even like my dad doesn't really like animals but he's still like a good dad yeah so i don't think that there there's a direct correlation between it i guess right yeah so i mean i would i'm 100 on your side with that it's just a matter of if she wanted the dog and he was

kind of like nah then i don't think that then i think that's completely fine but if he was the one actively equally pushing for the dog then i don't think it's fair but we don't know that but yeah i agree with you like i don't think if you yeah i don't think if you dislike pet like and like i don't think that means that you'll be a bad parent it's just about my whole thing is responsibility like if you wanted the responsibility and then you push the responsibility to someone else yeah i agree with you yeah if like yeah but again we don't know about the responsibility part because even like i don't like cats but i've lived with one and i've you know when the owner of said cat was lacking in responsibilities i would you know feed the cat but i wasn't sitting up and

cuddling with the cat like that wasn't what i wanted that's not how i live my life i'm not a cat person i don't like that they sit and lick themselves all day i don't like that they stare at you with a yellow eye yeah and then they just pounce and then run around for no reason i mean there's a reason but but like yeah sure evolutionary wise but yeah but they got they got long claws and like that sound no on the hardwood floor and then how they just like claw at things yeah they need yeah so i'm not a cat person yeah and so like if there's a cat around i'm not gonna be its best friend but but i don't want the cat but i'm but i'm great with children yeah yeah no that's a good point i automatically assumed that they both wanted that they both wanted and so like yeah i

mean i would probably follow up with her and if you're unsure because her reaction to being like comparing those things if he didn't want the dog and she was the one who really pursued all of that she can still complain about damn this is a lot more responsibility than i thought but that also doesn't make him wrong for following through that like he said this was going to be your responsibility because he didn't want a dog and like so she might be venting to you and complaining about all this responsibility that she has and the assumption is and my assumption what i i did the same that the assumption was that they agreed to split the responsibility right but if they didn't agree to split the responsibility i think your heart's in the

right place but i don't think yeah i don't think it's a pet care comparing pet care to parenting and i agree i don't think you should ever it once there's a child in the world i or even someone is carrying a pregnancy that they are choosing they've made the choice to go through with it i think that point even fucking rhetorical question like that's shit you keep your mouth goddamn fucking shut but like a hypothetical parenting they're already trying like starting the summer yeah but they've like they've made up their mind that they're like trying for kids i don't think that that's your place to say no and i think that the the thing of is bringing up and asking your friend instead of giving them because it makes people defensive and so it's just more

along the lines of being like do you feel and you have to word it in a way that's like very delicate but like you know do you feel like responsibility wise like how are you guys gonna like are you gonna do like daycare like things like that like have someone start thinking about the practical aspects especially if they're the person who kind of runs their household that it could be nice to kind of bounce like off that with someone and then have them come to their own conclusions. But it's a responsibility thing. I don't think it's a pet thing. But I think yelling at the dog that is irritating. But to me, that's not a red flag for you becoming a parent. I'm like red flag our marriage, like red flag you as a person like that wouldn't be like, oh, OK, I can't bring a

kid into the world. I would go, OK, why am I with you? This is like alarming, not OK behavior to begin with. All right. Next one. Hi, Megan and Melissa. Love the pod and need to know if I'm wrong here. So for context, my parents bought a house in my college town where my brother followed me to college instead of paying two rents. I am 24 and I work full time. My brother is 22 and still in school. I pay the monthly bills and keep up with the cleaning while my parents pay the mortgage. Yesterday, my brother asked if I'd be OK with his friend living with us for the fall semester. We have a spare bedroom that my parents use when they come to visit which is the space he wants his friends to be able to use. I have some trauma surrounding being left

alone with men and while I'm working on it the thought of sharing my safe space with the guy that I don't know well at all makes my stomach drop. Additionally I work from home at least two days a week. Usually these are the days that my brother has class or clinical so the space is quiet i live here year round so i know there are still spaces available near campus i don't want to be the bad guy but i also feel that for my own sanity and sense of peace i don't really want someone else in my safe space would i be wrong to say no thank you no you're not wrong i know even if it was a a gal that was moving in i don't want anybody extra in my space that does not need to be here also especially like i think he can be the nicest guy in the world nicest girl in the

world nicest person in the world but like the dynamic of living with siblings fuck no fuck no i do not want to be a part of that no and your parents are paying the mortgage so like he's coming to what pay rent and then to live for free essentially or live for free i don't know what your brother's thinking is but then that gives no place for your parents to stay when they come and again it throws off the whole dynamic and again i just don't want somebody in my space that does not need to be there so say no tell your brother no thank you did did he bring it up to your parents i bring it up to your parents because like this is not cool this is not your brother might be trying to be a nice guy i don't know the situation i don't know this person's

situation but like you said there are places that the person can stay on or near campus it does not needs to be your home your safe space your workplace nah and you said you don't want to be the bad guy reclaim that i'm i love being i'll be the bad guy for anyone like it's one of those things it is an underrated role to play like i'll be the fucking bad guy if that means that like that's i'm doing something i'm not comfortable with i'm fine if that's if if that's what that role is because also like you don't know you don't owe this person anything you know i mean And like your brother could, your brother could have even been asking you, hoping that he doesn't want to be the bad guy. So he's like, well, I mean, she's definitely gonna fucking say no.

So like, she's gonna ask. And then I can say, oh, my sister's like, you know what I mean? Like, so I think in that, like, be honest with your brother and be like, I'm really like not comfortable with that. And I think that it's a fucking long shot. And I would be surprised if he is surprised that you like aren't cool with it because he asked. so he knows that he's considering you and your permission and there's no shot i don't think that your parents would be like um yeah no have someone live there for seemingly for free who your sister is not comfortable living no no absolutely not like it's just not the like

yeah so it doesn't make you the bad guy but also if that's what makes you the bad guy then oh my god i'm the bad guy who gives a fuck who cares be comfortable in your home i can imagine like what if he like you are like telling your brother like oh my god fucking piece of shit like you know how siblings talk to each other whatever and the friend's like oh my god it's like not really nice but there's like yeah yeah you're like there are things that me and my sister say to each other we get in fights all the time we're fine you know like we are over it but then somebody else coming into the situation they don't understand they don't get it yeah and like if he then feels response and like i'm saying like i've been friends like a lot of my two close or four close

friends i've had growing up sisters and i've had to do the walking from one room to the other room being like okay well you know what this is how she i've done that and it's like the responsibility to like keep the peace and like attempting to keep peace in those situations that's not a fun role for anyone to play or you know picking sides and all of that it's just it's not fucking fun and it's not worth it and you already live with one boy one college boy yeah the idea of living with like disgusting no and then also you you pay the bills like at the house too yeah i don't i don't know your relationship with your brother but to me this this is like saying like someone invites you to sleep over you don't want to go and be like oh like let me ask and you pause your um

i can't actually like to me i'm like it's like he doesn't he knows the answers no but he wants to tell him that he asked or he just to then be like oh she said no like a really nice person and this person doesn't have anywhere to live he's like let me let me check i would go let me check and find some other nice people who i know let me help you acquire a loan at school i'm not gonna have like no it's also just how and he's not gonna be there for a vast majority of the no time so like he doesn't he doesn't know what it's even like do we even know what he knows what it's like living with this person no ew like that's like don't take me down with this ship absolutely not is that too soon for those statements um it was a submersive it wasn't a

ship so but i don't think it's too soon for anything no did you see well you don't really you don't follow the thor the wood chopping guy i had a great take on i don't i mean i'd be interested in hearing it. Yeah. Anyway, we're going to take a break. We'll be back. now we're back hi and it's time for but aren't they wrong and that's when we nominate somebody Your playlist might get you through the workday, but have you ever wondered how your ancestors spent theirs? What work helped them build a life? How did they adapt as the world around them changed?

With Ancestry, you can search select historical occupational records for free for a limited time and discover the stories behind the jobs in your family tree. You've got questions. We've got ancestors. Search free until August 31st. Visit ancestry.ca for details. Terms apply. in the zeitgeist that is wrong about something hell yeah we do and i would like to nominate sheen which is not the first time sheen has been brought up on this podcast no i think that you did it the first time um so if anyone has not seen sheen invited influencers to tour their

quote-unquote factories in the most blatant act of this is not a sweatshop propaganda that i've ever seen I've never seen anything like this in my life embarrassment that I I was like Black Mirror this is an episode of tell like I was mortified like and I don't want to say this like sound like self-righteous or anything like that but like I like cannot fathom in my head yes one thing agreeing to go on this trip the next is filming the content to promote after this I would have been like how much do I owe you so sorry like no shot in hell that I am getting because like you get there and they're like you know talking about and we do that and like brand trips like I've been on brand trips like they go through and they'll talk about like so this is where we source this

and this and this and like it's very timeshare sales-y but like when we're talking about skincare and things that are like oh and then this is how we make this this and this but when it's oh people think that these are the condition and they're not really that and suddenly go if you're talking so much about like disputing claims that this is a a press trip to save face like we're not promoting a line we're not doing it like you brought me here and you're using me as damage control there is not enough money in the world and a lot how much do you think they got paid this is my fucking thing so people are like they must have gotten some No, I'm telling you right now.

So Shein's got money. They have money. Yes, their CEO bought like a $64 million house here in LA. So in general, when you go on a brand trip traveling domestically, the pay rate that you will get decreases exponentially because the trip, quote unquote, is they value that experience as a dollar amount. Even though, and this is something that I've always had in like contract stuff.

I'm like, if I have to travel for work, unless it's a vacation and something that I like want to do and it's not want to do but something that like I'm it's not a job I'm not contractually obligated to post certain things it's not an exchange I would rather just have the money and stay at home and make the money and do the content and stuff so like I'm I would rather get paid more money if I have to get on a flight international even less likely that they pay because most of the time they can't you know brands if they are requiring posts from influencers on these branded trips. Influencers don't know this. I mean, not, I don't want to say all of them do, but a lot of people don't. If a brand contractually

requiring posts, then it is a, then it is a business expense. Then they can write that. Then, then there's a whole thing with tax write-offs. Basically, if you are actually contracted to post stuff and you have to do these things and you signed all of this stuff, you have to declare this on your taxes from, from the influencer's perspective. The brands make sure it's done in a way where they can do this as a tax write-off, but influencers need to declare this and you will be taxed upon

how much the value of the trip is worth. Like, and a lot of people don't get that and a lot of people don't do that. And to be fair, the FTC does not really come for people for that at this point. Like it's not really a, oh, you're gonna get audited immediately, but that's how you should be doing your taxes by the book.

So these influencers are TikTok mostly. The cost that you'll get And the price for a TikTok ad sponsorship is far less than you would get for like a YouTube or an Instagram or anything like that. So just in general, it's lowballed compared to other platforms. Then you add in the fact that it is an international travel experience. And you add in the fact that they didn't film this content themselves. Like Shein has people who's clearly filming all this behind the scenes stuff doing that. I think Shein probably edited all of these things too.

And then influencers made their own kind of follow-up videos or talked about it afterwards. So I'm going to say there is no shot that I would say I would think the most someone made would be if they had a celebrity come or someone who has a bigger crossover. If someone just TikTok, I'm going to say 10 grand maybe. And that is extremely generous. There's no doubt in my mind, one person there. I don't have a specific person I'm thinking. of but like someone went and didn't get paid to go yeah and someone probably went got paid very

very very little to go and if they had anyone who was quote-unquote like famous multi-platform famous like has that reach then I could see that having more but then I would also think maybe they're going to have a Shein collab and that's part of the a bigger deal for them but you don't invite this many people to do this, produce all the content and house yourself and have people travel and then pay them. It's like the Tarte trip. No one's going to pay down those things. This is why it's even more embarrassing. I go, oh my God. You couldn't just gone to Turks and Caicos. You literally took a brand trip, which again, is it fun? Sure. Totally. But is it also work? Yeah. And the brand saves a lot of money. A lot of the stuff is free that the brand gets.

They do partnerships with the hotels. They don't have to pay for pretty much anything. The brands don't spend as much money on brand trips as people think. They would spend far more doing traditional advertisement. And then you're not even really getting compensated to simp for she-in, which is baffling. But it's also upsetting that most of the women that went are marginalized women. They're Black women, Mexican women. One of the women describes herself as like a plus-size woman.

that who is the white woman that's there, the only white woman that's there. They, and I don't know if Sheehan did this specifically in the one of the ones I saw or if someone else edited it in post, but it's like everybody was like a something ambassador and it was like confidence ambassador, like inclusivity ambassador.

Like they gave everyone who went, like these little like chyrons there that I don't think, I don't think are false, but like if Sheehan put them there, it is kind of like token here, token here and here's how you should specifically target them when you're talking like it just felt like okay target on your goddamn fucking back so specifically one creator oh yeah so this one self-dubbed confidence activist danny carboni faced widespread backlash this one is specific

this article that i'm referencing is by alexa lizitza yeah yeah it's by alexa lizitza at buzzfeed so she has since deleted her video but it was viewed over 11 million times on twitter And she praised the brand's work saying, this China trip has been one of the most life-changing trips of my life. Getting to see the whole process of Shein clothing from beginning to end with my own two eyes was so important to me. I was really excited and impressed to see the working conditions. Then she refers to herself as an investigative journalist before she shares the experiences

she had there, saying that she was really surprised about all the rumors that she talked with the factory workers. And they said, she was really surprised at all of the rumors that have been spread in the U.S. I think the biggest takeaway from this trip is to be an independent thinker, get the facts and see it with my own two eyes. that is like dog whistle like language independent thing yeah to

me and I'm there's narrative fed in the US and I'm the one that always likes to be open-minded and seek the truth so I'm grateful for that about myself and I hope the same for you guys concluded and everybody talked like it was if I could look at the required

talking points one of the words I'm going to say was misinformation like specifically like address misinformation and about being surprised and talking to the workers and You know, as if these people were doing a undercover investigation for working conditions for people. But we've already seen the other undercover investigations that people have done for Sheen. Yeah. And so Channel 4 did a documentary inside the Sheen machine, Untold.

And with their undercover cameras, they saw workers clocking in 17-hour days with a base salary of $20 per day. Yeah, I did that for But Are They Wrong? Oh, yeah, yeah. And in 2022, a report published by Synthetics Anonymous 2.0 on fashion, sustainability said that she and 6 000 factories burn a lot of oil and thus produce as much co2 as about 180 coal fired power plants and then the swiss watchdog group public eye in 2021 they reported interviewing lots of workers and people worked in the companies that supply she and products and learned that they're working upward of 75 hours per week with one day off per month and if they mess up on products too they get thought paid yeah so that original influencer

did a response video which has also since been deleted and said i know exactly what the fuck i'm doing i was taken on the trip once in a lifetime chance you'd have done the exact same thing we're fed propaganda we were fed a whole line about chinese people chinese culture she concluded so here's the thing that i think is the most like egregious part of all of this is the last line not fucking wrong we are fed a lot of bullshit about china like we are in a i don't know goddamn like eon lifelong war enemies with china for like there is a reason there is a a lot of anti-China shit and it's you have to be vigilant when you are consuming said information and what you are getting. So this idea that everything in China is evil because it's China

is not true. But then you cannot view valid criticisms of working conditions not everywhere in China, but in factories that have had poor working conditions as everybody's just against it's like and say that that's part of China's culture yeah and it's just like you can have things the whole thing of like the and and this is how I grew up like I was not allowed to buy anything made in China like it was that was not allowed ever everything was a sweatshop like everything has to be made in the USA and like the older I get it's like oh that's not true like you can have things that are not made in sweatshops of the other places and like in this idea that we have in america that if it's made in america that means it's it's good living conditions it's

a livable wage it's safe it's clean it's healthy there are no children and then if it's somewhere else well i mean i've never been there but of course i know that every single thing like no it's these big ass fucking broad statements but then the idea if you want to call yourself whether a confidence activist or anything but like if you want to use the term activist even if it's unrelated to political activism i think it's an incredibly naive statement to make and a title to give yourself to then also lump it all together in a way that you think you're being like anti-xenophobic and it's no no that's actually an issue that you're you are being a part of a problem of the issue that you're cleaning that other people are doing in relation to this because

you're making these broad statements that everyone thinks all of china's like i'm telling you i've been here once it's not it's not all like that and it's like okay wow no but you you can't truly think that this specific company this specific company has just been like oh no it's all been a huge big misunderstanding like we have shit that happens like this we've reported on this podcast that happens in factories in the united states like this shit happens so this whole thing of like oh no no no it was a mistake but i had a great time is baffling to me and the quote i will never get over and i can't quote it verbatim because it's i'm pretty sure that one got scrubbed quick pretty quick but someone else said and nobody was sweating they're not even

sweatshops huh i don't know what's in my mind i go that was a joke that landed poorly and then i I go, but how how did you think that was a joke? And I go, so in my mind, I'm like, were they being serious? Because that sounds like a tongue in cheek statement that you should never make. But it's a play on words. But I'm like, you can't make a play on words about that. So do you genuinely think that that was like a insightful and productive thing to say that solidified your point? And the brand approved that?

Like, that sounds like you're mocking. Yep. i thought this was all a mockery when i first heard about it i was like there's no way this is true there's no way i thought it was an annie nardo quote first i was like yeah that's what i mean that's on twitter first i was like this is a joke yeah and now these creators which i think that's part of the other thing that like i think almost all of the creators are from marginalized communities who statistically factually get less brand deals get less opportunities their accounts don't grow as fast the algorithms don't favor them and so i don't want to get on here and say

like they're not in a place to turn down work because I don't know that that's true. And also there is in this line of work and in freelance work specifically, there is a line if you are compromising your morals that you have the ability with the job that you're doing, like online, you have the ability to make the hours work to work another job. So you don't have to take the pay maybe in some very rare seldom cases you're taking care of a sick parent you have something that's a full-time other thing and this is the only way you can make money on this side I just but it also looks bad at you for your future future partnerships so is it worth taking the money now maybe depending on the situation yeah but in the long run it probably isn't no for me

i'm like the only way that i can see someone taking this who i'm like i think she and should be the ones who are getting like the brunt of this backlash because they specifically chose creators who are they knew are going to have to carry all this backlash if there's a creator who is like i truly like i need to make the money this i need to make they're giving me like two thousand dollars i have to make two thousand dollars or else i'm losing something i have to pay for something this and like i'm never gonna i'm gonna quit influencing to the day after that check clears and i'm going to pivot to another job then i'm like okay cool but yeah you are i agree with you completely like you're compromising the entire future of the money that you are making

and it's baffling to me and everybody all of them have doubled down yep and they know that's the other part to me like you know when you get these they send over the requirements they send over the talking points like you you get the brand deck and this entire thing is all about correcting the misinformation about it so if it wasn't in the deck because i've also attended things where they were like this is all about women's empowerment and i get there and it's all men speaking and cutting off women and there's no women's empowerment and then they said oh please stop saying the word feminism and i went oh okay cool uh when i get home i'm gonna give you the fucking money back i remember you talking about and uh they're like can't give the money back

gonna donate the money in your name like please don't do that i go legally i'm allowed to do that my lawyer's like sure so i do that so like it's one of those things that like you can get duped you're not nobody is above getting duped in a brand misleading into like what the experience is but there is a get your tickets now for the dog stars it's no surprise how fast civilization can disappear Go! A therapist. Kill or be killed.

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more money where that came from and like saying no to that thing or turning down that thing i have enough confidence in myself but also the algorithm favors me like i've been at this for a while like i get brand deals i'm a blonde white girl like this is something i've done it for a long time and i know that that's not my only opportunity and for some people it's like that felt like a once in a lifetime it's the only brand deal they'll ever get yep and it's yeah it's creating it's like it's creating the problem and then casting people to participate in the problem who they know you know want that experience it's wildly fucked and i did see a good number of plus size creators who are saying like they also like reference specifically like you know like

she is great for like plus size clothing and people are like you know it's not for a lot and like that's not the only place like things have really started to expand in sizing specifically because that was the she in failsafe was that like one of the only affordable clothing that's in extended sizing. And now that's not really the case. And so it's like, OK, so there are other places that they might not be the most sustainable, the most ethical. But when you know something is so poorly, poorly managed and poorly run and so harmful for the people where all of those things like that can be something you avoid to something that might not be the most the most ethical but it's better than that and we work our way up to that place because it is a privilege but she ends

also the way they make money is people spend like 900 on giant like bags and bags and bags it's not necessity clothes and they're not clothes that are designed to last either nope they're all in the landfill all right my nomination this week is roseanne barb and i thought we were done hearing from this broad i my gasp felt like i heard a ghost i go she's back she's back oh my god did she get back on twitter did elon let her back on twitter uh this stuff was on instagram okay but she probably is back on yeah that's actually a good point so she posted this uh throwback to when she was on Vanity Fair back in 1994, and it was this photo shoot of her shot by Annie Leibovitz.

And she was like the first plus size person that was on the cover. And she was wearing like lingerie and her legs spread open. And it was like a big, I see it. Yeah, it was like a big deal at the time. And so she got on Instagram and said, when is and added lizzo going to thank me for paving the way a homage to botero she keeps talking like she keeps bringing up lizzo and you know we've talked about it like why are people always fucking talking about lizzo why why are people so jealous of her and like trying to make

her like the butt of a joke or something and she's not and so then she has this new podcast that came out in the first episode she's saying i laid the groundwork for you and you've never said thank you i was the one that they wrote all the shit about there was some more i'm paraphrasing now but then she goes even in the time and and news week i did the work bitch like yelling at lizzo as if lizzo gives a shit about her as if lizzo should be kissing the ground that she walks on as if lizzo isn't also the same things are not being still said about her that rosanna is also currently saying yes that rosanna is currently saying this is a woman that got fired from her own show that had her name in the title that they have continued to do and not do it with and do it

without her name on it because she said something racist she is a holocaust denier and openly speaks about how the holocaust didn't happen but also then says even more anti-semitic things that i will not repeat this is so disgusting and i'm just like what is just leave lizzo alone why why are you bringing her into this and like people that have said bad shit about lizzo bad things happen to them i don't know what kind of special the brujas the the fucking witches they got her back so like aries spears is one example of it we talked about it was as it was the the turnaround on that yeah the next week spooky my my we talked about him talking shit about lizzo the next week terrible shit comes out about him and then we've got like pk7 who used to play in the nhl talk

shit about him i mean she talked he talked shit about lizzo bad stuff happened to him also this woman has a platform where she also said on her instagram burn me at the stake for not agreeing with me let me throw out one idea and she goes on like no prepping for what she's about to say you said burn me at the stake i don't need to hear your idea i'm gonna say i'm ready to burn without hearing it. And she said, and I quote, this is a direct quote, Trump. Nope. Hear me when I say this. Trump is, in my opinion, the first woman president of the United States. I would have thought her psychiatrist would have been like, you know, was Twitter the problem or was the Ambien the problem? So Twitter has been removed. Yeah. That we know some. No, ma'am.

No, no, no, ma'am. There are other things you can take that can help sleep. We can do other. Ambien is a hell of a goddamn drug. But now she's getting on and posting video of herself. She can't just like say I was tweeting out things. No, she's posting actual videos of her saying these things. No, I know.

But like her PR team. I know. But I'm saying like before they were like, it was the Ambien. I know, but I'm like tweeting on Ambien. but now she is opening a video lighting herself putting herself on camera to say these things like it's what no it's her yeah so i'm like where's your did your publicist get fired like because what is this i also there's nothing i find fucking funnier than people whining about like everything being taken away from them on their like blue check mark fucking verified million

followers or like talking to an audience i'm like what was taking away from you like you're literally on here complaining to people like you this cancel culture thing i'm like you're not and people are agreeing with her all the races love her they love her they'll take and the thing is they used to hate her that's what i'm saying like she used to be like this liberal woman that got up and said and did whatever she want but in a but in a you know it used to not be like roseanne used to be a show that would talk about like the working class and like marginalized people and like queer people like it was like the blue collar like liberals that was the show yeah and then she just changed it's i'm sure it was there but no yeah it's there it might have been

her ex-husband tom arnold who created the show with her he might have been the progressive one yeah but i don't know i don't know these are just guesses no but it's there's a whole thing and then i think that like fame is also an instigator of like hatred because people like you they get so jealous of other people and specifically white people when they see who they've been looking all everyone else that they're they've been coming up with is is white and then suddenly when it's not that it's like well i can compete with that and then it's this like vitriol like just this innate anger that they can't name and i go it's racism it's what it is yes you're implicit by all of those things and instead of that it just becomes this oh I'm used to fighting for these

things night like all of this stuff and instead of like when you're fighting against another like white woman for the role it's a different fight than you are when you're then deciding that someone else does not deserve to even be in the fight with you because they haven't been there before so then how did they get there and it's like okay yeah like this is it's just baffling to me that she is someone who has a like her fucking show syndicated like she has so much she's not it's literally impossible to like quote unquote cancel her because like her shit still makes money yeah and so like she's like she has a farm in hawaii that she lives on it's like i think that's the same way with like lance armstrong's like lance armstrong's on this like

new fox show where it's like they're pretending like celebrities are on mars i'm convinced that this has to be an australian show or some show from like i don't know like an asian like game show something about this there's no way that this came from the united states of america like this is a concept that is like so wild and creative that i'm like someone else came up with this and we are doing a version lamb lance armstrong's on it and ma and i was like it's so weird and ma said well i know he has nothing to do i go but he doesn't have to do anything yeah it's like it's so odd to me when someone who does not have to work they can make all of that money they can have their views they can do whatever the fuck that they want they're going to continue on this

to then do a show could be unsyndicated but like right now it's it's not like Lance Armstrong's another one who I think of like he's yeah sure the scandals in his career and all of that kind of stuff but I'm like he already accomplished his things he doesn't need to like save face and rebuild his career he's just it's his ego and it's this ego fucking driven thing that I'm like you will not stop until you blow up your own life and like that's how I feel about Roseanne I'm like you're not going to stop you can take her off twitter you can take her off social media it's like no you are unhappy insecure like racist anti-semitic and you will be until your head explodes like that's you will do it and screaming until the day you die like it's just there's

nothing you want there's nothing you're trying to get there's no like goalpost you're trying to reach you're just gonna keep fucking talking yep and no one can stop her like none of her team none of her agents all that she's got a new podcast yeah like i don't care no not at all but it's like to the point like but they will care when her show gets unsyndicated because right now she still makes those people money eventually she won't the original roseanne will be on forever no i know but i'm saying if she like i don't think universe like across the world but like you know some other countries if she goes so like they'll they'll remove it from that but them it's still other places she's making money there and i just i just can't imagine being so

prideful and having so much ego there that you can't just you can't just make your money and like your problematic money in silence i wish i could just make some money and just everyone does like lay down passive income shut up like just shut up i wouldn't have this i wouldn't be on this mic for this podcast nobody would and like that's the part i'm like but there are people that would that's the thing is there are people that are there's so many people that are weird like just be like you know fucking toddlers elementary school kids who like are obsessed with youtube videos and like they just record videos of themselves talking on their ipad and they don't upload them yeah like do that like or go to therapy like it's just it's so odd to me

like the whole narrative of cancel culture but specifically like people sharing their story with cancel culture i'm like negated it's no longer cancel culture you're sharing your story you've not been canceled you have a platform to share your story your story story's been shared like it's just idiotic to me okay well all right that's it for episode we hope you all enjoyed do not forget that fisting friday comes out tomorrow where you can hear the results of clashed weeks episode and if you want to vote for your thoughts and feelings on everything we talked about on this episode that will be up most likely friday maybe saturday you have time though this week because i'll be gone so flawless amazing perfect wonderful stunning i am obsessed with that

and if you want to write in give your own thoughts and feelings for certain ones if you're like oh i disagree like this i think this person is wrong even if you agree with us you disagree with us you have your own thoughts we love to hear it we just like to read those aloud to kind of see what you say and we will not hold it against you unless you say that you don't think rosanne is wrong and feel free to explain why that is and we will hold that against you but i feel like that's kind of a gift and feel free to tag us social media if you see things you want us to talk about on the show please send them in dms if it's going to be like anything like hard to watch like traumatic troublesome like just tagging where it automatically pops up no thanks send us a little message and

then say like hey can you check this thing out we appreciate when it's done like that and follow us anywhere everything what else that's it that's it goodbye goodbye but am i wrong is a production by me megan rinks and me melissa demont plus diamond imprint productions post-production by coco lorenz and production assistance by melanie d watson