Don't Blame Me! - Compulsory Heterosexuality

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Starting point is 00:00:30 hi hello welcome to don't blame me i really can't do a call and response because we are doing this episode virtual and i i did my little solo and now would you like to do your fanfare solo mouth trumpet don't do any of the weird fucking mouth choices but the stage is yours it's me melissa that's all i got wow yeah i don't know if anyone knows that melissa is now a absolute award-winning fantastic drummer that was that was great you're super talented i i know i mean listen to what the people have to say okay wow that does go on a long time it's not even halfway there but i hit stop but also it feels like when you're on a very famous actor on a um a sitcom in the 90s when like you come do a

Starting point is 00:01:50 guest role and you walk on and everybody just starts cheering and you're just like and you have to wait and then you have to wait so you can say yep for you to say your line wow i mean that was remarkable to know that somebody who was once taking covid so seriously is now in an auditorium full of your adoring fans what do you have to say for yourself what would dr fauci think of you i'm wearing a mask well me and dr fauci have beef dude me and dr fauci have the most tumultuous hot and cold relationship ever like me and the cdc equally equally and i'm just like the world health organization and i have we've been a lot more steady we've had our ups and downs yes consistently i've been able we've been able to count on each other and i find myself you know

Starting point is 00:02:41 how i get when sometimes joe biden has certain tweets or when he posts a photo of him and i'm just like i feel like tyra like we were rooting for you we were all rooting for you and i'm just sometimes like oh no you're making i i have to defend i don't want to defend like this is annoying i felt that way when i saw i don't even know what you'd call it kind of like an end cap like in a cvs or like a pharmacy um and it's like a full body like four and a half feet tall silhouetted like annie lebowitz style photo of just dr fauci and it was giving very much like president snow like very like dramatic photos like photo shoot kind of thing and i was like huh is this we just supposed to look at this and it's just i don't know who did this sometimes i

Starting point is 00:03:34 think that there are conservatives who are just trying to infiltrate being like we're gonna make what looks like to be a shrine of fauci because i'm like they're like that's what the dems the liberals worship him they like kiss the ground he walks on i'm like no we don't know and then they make this thing and i'm like why'd you do this why'd you make this is this the world that you want same energy literally literally and i'm like no i don't have like a fucking hard on for a political figure or even like a public health figure who also is inherently at this point political like i don't anyways uh if you can't if this is your first episode feel like we've made our uh who we are you can make some general assumptions from our statements and find

Starting point is 00:04:20 out if this is a safe place for you or if it's not we're not a safe place for everybody you want to hear a funny story about someone making an assumption oh god sorry it's really funny and this is for our editor coco what happens so i've met her about um two years ago virtually we've never seen each other in person but met her on another another podcast and she said that she's like uh yeah i'm from west covina and i was like oh i know about that because of crazy ex-girlfriend and so then i forgot that i had told her that because she posted one of those memes that are going around talking about Little Miss blah blah blah

Starting point is 00:05:05 and she posted a meme that said Little Miss can't tell the difference between Covina and Wes Covina and I was like oh I know about that I know about Wes Covina from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and then she was like I need a story and I said oh there's a whole song so I sent her

Starting point is 00:05:21 a song from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend the TV show and she was like this whole time I've been thinking that you were talking about like you had a crazy ex-girlfriend from west covina and you're just like over sharing so much i was like the first time that i met you that's what you thought i'm saying she's like yeah she basically was like i made some assumptions about you but she was like but from the conversations that you and megan have

Starting point is 00:05:50 i've been thinking that i'm having the wrong the wrong assumption there's a whole time she's like yeah this is not adding up is she like incredibly deep in the closet herself on the first time i meet her she says she's like crazy but she does this podcast and just yeah that is so funny as soon as you said oh i know that from like i was like oh i know where this is gonna go yeah i i bet that that's why she titled it that because when you talk about it yeah like in conversation it does become like it sounds like that so i that sounds so interesting that's so fucking funny and coco's just being professional listening to you talk on and on the podcast every week going maybe you do not know this girl i met her the first time i met her i

Starting point is 00:06:46 knew more that's so oh my god that's so funny i was like unfortunately i'm stuck with mid and she said yeah that is unfortunate for you yeah yeah oh my god that killed me i was cackling that's so funny like it's been at least two years and like again this podcast is like coco's like thinking that you're probably like a literal serial killer like living this like you're able to like maintain like you're able to have like so many all of this stuff all the while hiding like what that's remarkable that is so funny and then you keep breaking it up and she's like well just tell me about this fucking crazy ex-girlfriend like why yeah like give me the story here's the link i said like you see the youtube link it's like what and then it comes with the truth it's

Starting point is 00:07:36 like oh there's a song you wrote a song that's so funny and then i was like i would never call anybody crazy and she was like yeah that doesn't match your brand yeah she just barely thought you're like just fake as hell like what the fuck is happening wow that really that was like actually so funny welcome to don't blame me the advice podcast where we give wonderful amazing life changing advice we were actually invited to the white house to give joe biden some advice he didn't take it no he didn't i just have to be clear jill made a wonderful fruit basket after she flew in from teaching dr jill biden anyways welcome or welcome back if this is your first time here or if you just love to hear us say our own names that's your personal kink

Starting point is 00:08:36 my name is megan and my name's melissa and together we are i can't stand you you have to watch the patreon to watch her like mouthing along like a second later of what i'm saying because we have a lag because we're still virtual because we both were at weddings and we are going to be recording back together in person next week good thing we're not recording today because stop stop look here's the thing people keep saying like i thought it was allergies at first and do i have allergies yes has my nose been burning a lot yes so i don't know yeah but you've always had like is this new does this feel new i'm just saying no yeah i'm just saying you ever know look at me the power of positive you got a little cough too stop it i don't have a

Starting point is 00:09:31 cough i just think i'm dehydrated in your throat i can't remember anything so i don't know if i drank any water yesterday but as i was filling up my water bottle today i was like this doesn't feel familiar i don't think i've done this in a while so i might have just not drank water in two days which would also make sense for like why i have not had any satisfying poops today and where my stomach hurts my water intake is also lower because i forgot to put in a order for my water and that would do it so i have two different brita filters and one of them i threw away because it got like some green it looked like algae was growing in there it was awful and so i had thrown that away because i haven't i mean it looked like it had algae and then i have another

Starting point is 00:10:14 one that's like one of the ones and i like that one better but i just have to buy a new one then I have another one that's just the one that you pour and it like filters when you pour. And I don't specifically like that one, but I had the filters for the one I threw away and not the one that I pour. And I've just been drinking this nasty ass LA water. Ooh, it's creamy. But my water will be here tomorrow. It's the taste of it.

Starting point is 00:10:37 It's tangy, it's creamy, and it's minerally. Like that's the only way I can describe it. And it's never cold. No matter if the temperature is cold, it never tastes cold. Yeah, because usually, like, if it's, like, cold water that's still, like, tap water that's good, like, it has that refreshing feel to it when it goes down your throat, and this water just does not have it. It's just awful. It's really nasty. Like, I don't understand. I just don't understand, like, why it's so nasty. I mean, I do understand, but, like, it's just nasty water.

Starting point is 00:11:11 The water is so freaking nasty. It's very, very, very nasty. If you have to drink tap water here, my biggest thing is ice so much ice because again it needs to be ice cold because even when it's cold it's still like when it's when tap water is room temperature you can taste everything but no matter how cold la tap water is like it you can taste it all so it's got to be as cold as possible ice and then i would not put it in a clear glass because then you have to see all the floaties the milky it's cloudy it's white and cloudy and then it sits and then it becomes just like foggy this is a clean glass and it's foggy as fuck yep and when it first comes out it just looks like bubbly milk and you're just like this is so bad no wonder why the cat like the mineral

Starting point is 00:11:56 build-ups on our hair and we need clarifying shampoo yeah i just i've just been holding my breath and then chugging as much as i can yeah i guess we should explain more about this show is it's a call-in advice podcast so like that would suggest you call in leave voicemails or if you're international, you send us an audio message and you tell us what is going on in your life that you need our expert, wonderful, amazing advice in. And then we give you that wonderful, amazing advice. We do ask that you let us know if you are sensitive ahead of time. But if you do something absolutely catastrophic, if you being sensitive, that is your own problem, then do not make those fires if you cannot handle them. But we also need you to keep it under three minutes or you will be

Starting point is 00:12:42 cut off 18 or over have your parents permission let us know your ages everything is anonymous but if it's about a relationship the age of the other person in the relationship and how long you've been together same thing for friendships if you'd like to let us know your pronouns and other people's pronouns in the call and whatever story you're telling us please do so and we do ask that you write everything down time it out before you actually call and leave the voicemail and before you actually leave the voice memo so you have three minutes and that's not from when you call like you it starts ringing it's literally from the beep if you're leaving the voicemail and then voice memo i think it's that's more straightforward so if you write it all down time it out and you're

Starting point is 00:13:29 not not timed out in the time where like you have to basically read it so fast in order to keep it under three minutes then you don't really have to check the time too much when you're actually calling on the phone if you don't deviate from a script so we do recommend that because the more information we have the better advice we can give and we might be completely off base if you don't give us enough info and then you're upset or other people are upset you know and we could have saved your life like we could have given you the advice that changed your life but instead you like decided to tell us i don't know something irrelevant we did have a write-in update oh i screenshotted that too so why is it that we are either always both on top of it or both of us go i saw i didn't

Starting point is 00:14:13 screenshot that but i thought i did i've been trying to be better lately me too because of that one time when either of us did yeah hey megan and melissa i called in to don't blame me today i was the girl who forgot to help her boyfriend move i just wanted to say you all were completely right i am financially supported by my parents who are both sort of overbearing so i find it hard to stick up for myself realize when certain opinions are mine my own versus what is just thrown out there as i've gotten older it is something i am trying to work on but i appreciate you all pointing it out he had went through the list of colleges with me and was excited about visiting originally but like you all said he was just hurt in the moment we had solely been moving

Starting point is 00:14:59 him out throughout the summer so the move out was not a day-long event but i still should have not forgotten about it and prioritize myself over him i really appreciate your advice and keeping me in check i love the podcast and have been a huge fan for years love that and i guess i should explain what the original call was oh yeah so the original call was this person called in because their mom had scheduled the caller's mom had scheduled her to go visit a law school that's an hour and a half away and the caller had already promised her boyfriend that she would help him move out but he but then she forgot and made these plans and then she was mad because he didn't want to go look at the school with her yeah the only thing i'm gonna say because of course i can't just let

Starting point is 00:15:55 someone have like a wow this is a great learning moment I always have to like twist the knife a little bit further and this isn't even like at you or anything but just when it comes to anyone planning on moving even if you've been moving out periodically move in day or move out day or move in day will always be a full day event and I just say that to like anyone who's moving plan for that because whether it's like there's so much more that you have to do like cleaning stuff like oh there's garbage here like things will always take time and that was i think matz's biggest learning lesson with our move that despite all of the work we had done beforehand there it's never it's never just a partial day thing like make sure you time plan things

Starting point is 00:16:43 accordingly and even if it's not like a ton of like physical labor that day moving is like a very emotional like thing whether it's a happy move or a sad move there's a lot of like emotions and stuff tied to it and so I think if you can like allot yourself the time to do it versus like checking it off a list you know so thank you for that little update we would also love anyone who has updates from calls that have been on previous episodes to send us an email and we'd love to have you back on to do like a actual zoom we all talk together do the live updates we can ask more questions especially if it was a call where we had more questions so it doesn't have to be a recent one but we do love recent ones we love prompt turnarounds but if it's from something a long

Starting point is 00:17:33 time ago on an episode we would also love that so shoot us an email and you can leave a voicemail at 310-694-0976 international listeners you can send us an audio message at meganpodcast at gmail.com in an mp3 format let's take a break okay and then when we get back we will get into the calls all right so uh let's get in the calls now hey megan and melissa i'm trying again because i got too nervous before but anyway i like your podcast a lot and thank you for doing what you do we can call me gina in the story but essentially i'm gina and i'll try to keep this short but um i talked to someone for a long time and I broke up with them because they were kind of like they said some things where like they

Starting point is 00:18:46 made a comment where they were gonna hit me and they were joking but I didn't understand at the time they were just kidding but I've gone through like a lot of trauma and like I really worked hard on myself like I was an alcoholic and then you know like I had to work on that few but then flash forward to now they are trying to date me again and I was kind of thinking like maybe I messed up like maybe I was like being too sensitive so I'm talking to them again but I feel like they're love bombing me with all this stuff and like sending me flowers and being like really sweet and a specific example would be like I'm out of town I'm in a different state and they found my hotel Mike sent me flowers and I at this point like can't tell like if they really like me or if

Starting point is 00:19:42 they're just being like love bombing for instance like I'm pretty like closed off but they're always like oh no you're right all the time and they tell me daily like that they like me and I set boundaries and I'm like uh I don't know if you do and they're like no I do and I'm like well please stop like you know being so aggressive and when I set those boundaries like they keep going for them I guess and it's alarming sometimes so I just don't know how to deal with that when like how to tell like when someone is love bombing you or being really nice like I can't tell this is a very uncomfortable one I so relate I so understand this I think I've said this on the podcast before but just to give you like so many so much kudos and so much credit

Starting point is 00:20:36 those red flags I couldn't even verbalize like I just like my brain just shut them down and like shut them out and I'm so glad that you called because that not only does that mean that like your your brain can't do that like you're needing to verbally process this and like ask someone else for their opinion because your brain's not letting you look past these things and you've said you've like done a lot of like self-work on yourself and I just want to give you like so many props because like this is like such a huge example for I think we think about work we've done is like conscious things but like your brain is something that like we can't always control our thought process or how we deal with things and your brain's not letting you drop this and that is just like just shows how

Starting point is 00:21:19 shows me how much work that you've done. And it's like, you should be really, really proud of yourself. But yeah, this is love bombing and you will never have a question. What's love bombing and what is someone being nice? And I could not fathom that when I was younger, like I just did not understand that. And so I really did struggle with that too. And like getting in relationships, I had someone who showed up at the hotel I was at for my birthday. And like, I decided that that was really sweet and romantic and it wasn't until like much later that I was like oh that's actually really creepy and like really scary like I had gone on one date with this person and we had liked each other but there was this air of like urgency to that and that's like the biggest thing I think

Starting point is 00:22:03 that I've learned as I am not in an unhealthy relationship is urgency so someone who needs to talk to you all of the time where it feels like things are fragile and it feels like they're coming on so quickly and that's because they don't have time to waste because if it doesn't work really quickly and they're not able to start the cycle of abuse which is how love bombing is the beginning of the cycle of abuse if they can't start that quickly they're moving on i think people on the receiving end of it, you will notice that sense of urgency where it's like your boundaries are not being respected and they're not taking it slow. And the biggest thing I had when Mons and I were dating, it was like the first time he asked me if he could kiss

Starting point is 00:22:52 me. And I said, no. And he was like, okay. And then he just walked away and left. And I was shocked that it wasn't like a conversation or an argument or like a convincing or anything. and part of me wanted him to kiss me but like i wasn't used to like what i was saying being respected and being taken as like law in a conversation or a relationship i was used to everything being up for debate and then it became oh wow that's not how everything is and this is huge this whole thing there's no joking about abuse or hitting like that's not funny there's nothing ever funny about it you were not being you were not being too sensitive it was not a misunderstanding that's a really really huge red flag and I don't want you to think that that's

Starting point is 00:23:41 something that you should have caught on like you did catch on in the moment love bombing works like it really it really works and it works until it doesn't and I find the only the way that it stops working is when you have something else to compare it to and I always think this is a case where he's love bombing you in any situation it's always better to be like I want to take things slow and if you're afraid taking things slow means you're going to miss out on somebody that's a red flag because it shouldn't like it should anyone who cares about you it's not going to feel like this really fragile thing that you have to coddle in order to make it succeed. And it has to be this way. And this just like, yeah, this just gives me flashbacks to like, when I was

Starting point is 00:24:33 younger, and I, you are know yourself a lot more than I did. And I want you to be like, just Yeah, just really proud of yourself. Because you you know, this isn't right. And that's, that's why you're calling yeah i used to be around someone i wasn't dating them but they were just somebody that was in my life and they would make this they thought it was just joke and i thought it was disgusting of them saying like if you said something that they thought was dumb or until unintelligent or that they didn't agree with they would be like go kill yourself or they would say hold out your hand, and then he would hit your hand. And I told him that I didn't like it. And then he just belittled me even more. And other people around just thought it was funny. And

Starting point is 00:25:28 I dealt with that by, you know, continuing to stand my ground on the issue. There's nothing to be joked about with any telling anyone to harm themselves or to or you physically hitting them. Like, that's not funny. So, yes, this is like Megan said, this is definitely love bombing. This is someone that doesn't understand boundaries. And when you talk to them about boundaries and they're like, yes, I do understand it. They're also not just like love bombing you, but they're gaslighting, which a lot of times love bombing and gaslighting go hand in hand with each other. my advice would be to, you know, you've already had a serious conversation with them. You've already told them how you feel. I don't think that you're being, you know, overly sensitive or I don't think that you're in the wrong or thinking you're reading too much into the situation. You know what it is. You recognized it. And I think the next step is to distance yourself from this person because they've already proven that they don't respect you so this just isn't the

Starting point is 00:26:36 type of relationship that you want to be in no and also this has given like early warning signs of again love bombing is a part of the cycle of abuse but joking about like physically harming you and physical abuse is also a really huge red flag so i'm usually a very large proponent for ghosting but I in this situation how I got out of a situation similar to this is I called the person put their the call on speakerphone and I was with like three other people I had told my doorman at my building that like I was doing this and I didn't feel I was nervous that they were going to show up and I didn't feel totally safe I had friends who were staying with me and I was only going to be there for a couple more days and I was going out of town and I made sure that

Starting point is 00:27:27 not even just like things were in place that would help my safety but even things that made me feel safer like even like just the aspect of like having my friends there and staying with my friends and I already told the doorman so was that necessarily something I needed to do like no but it was something that helped me feel safer and also helped me feel not that I needed to be held accountable for like anything that I hadn't done anything and I wasn't at fault for anything but if you had been when you were in like that kind of cycle and if you've dated other people like this or this has been kind of similar to like your past or any of like relationships in your life romantic or non-romantic it was also really helpful for me to have friends hear the conversation

Starting point is 00:28:12 know the bound know that I had ended it and then also been around so I wasn't tempted to go back to that cycle and like reach out to that person it also helped me feel like I was being held accountable and holding my boundaries because it can be hard to hold your boundaries and we've talked about this on the podcast before but other people can't uphold your boundaries only you can So he's already proven that that's not something that he can abide by and recognize and respect. We should not ever have to handhold someone or force someone to adhere to our boundaries. Our boundary is, I don't accept this behavior in relationships. Then that behavior happens, then you're gone.

Starting point is 00:28:58 And that's what boundaries are. And that was like life-changing to learn for me from my therapist. where it was like, you're the only one who can disrespect your boundaries. I learned once I started putting up those firm boundaries and then walking away when people were not honoring them, it made me much more confident to set boundaries in the future. And I didn't feel as unsure about what I was doing and second guessing that because I was honoring my initial gut instincts from the beginning.

Starting point is 00:29:27 last thing i want to say is just a little like graphic of the cycle of abuse you can look at this up like cycle of abuse with love bombing thrown in there like just you can google that but a lot of the time we think of abuse as starting as like physical or emotional abuse not starting with love bombing we think of love bombing as a means of reconciliation but uh the cycle of abuse can start at any point it can start at like any one point of it that there's a reason why it's a circle it doesn't have an automatic start and stop point so in this case it's starting with something like adoration compliments grand gestures of love love bombing then moves on to control and abuse criticism public humiliation outrageous behavior lack of empathy and

Starting point is 00:30:10 accountability then rage uh narcissist becomes angry sometimes violent puts the victim in their place calm apologizes makes excuses promises pretends abuse never happened and there's lots stages of abuse. And I think joking about abuse and making light of something that serious is just setting the stage to do that moving forward. And then you're minimizing what that is by joking about it. And to me, that just says that you don't think it's a bad thing and that it's something that you have either already partake part took in, or that's something that it's going to happen in the future. Yeah. And I want to tag onto that, that person that I talked about that said those things is also abusive person found out later they abused their partner yeah we're not and i

Starting point is 00:30:55 don't mean me and melissa but i mean like anyone in this situation you're not going to be wrong about people like this like we you don't have that like icky feeling that doesn't just come randomly like that there it doesn't like there is a reason even if that person maybe hasn't done something so obvious and you don't feel like you could describe it to like a court of law and they haven't done anything illegal honor those feelings that you have because if you can think about how many people in your life you don't have those feelings towards and then the people that you do like there's a really stark and huge huge difference and you you should trust your gut with that but yeah oh i just fully didn't i don't even think i finished that sentence so usually a big

Starting point is 00:31:42 proponent of ghosting but i would do tell people in your life this has been like this has scared me and say everything tell them everything tell them about them joking about the abuse like the love bombing and tell the people in your life who will hear you and be supportive of you if you don't have those people i would call a hotline or go to any sort of domestic violence shelter or an organization that deals with like intimate partner violence and having them be a support system for ending this relationship but just being very clear of I'm not interested in pursuing anything further and that's it and just blocking their number not responding and keeping that really really really clear and making sure that you feel safe doing so and that people in your life

Starting point is 00:32:34 know that as well I'm really sorry like if you can do anything to try and reframe this someone being abusive is not about you or if they like you it's about like power and control and I know I definitely felt like what's wrong with me that someone who isn't like healthy and like kind why can't they like me what's wrong with me and it took me a long time to realize that it's not about someone liking me it's not about me like this isn't how worthy I am of love or this is the only thing that I can get it was this is a really shitty situation and I have ended up here and that was not my goal and not my intention but this does not reflect on me and then how other people are going to have relationships with me moving forward like

Starting point is 00:33:28 all my relationships don't have to be like this so yeah i would also take a break from dating for a bit that helped me maybe that won't help you but that really did help me to to feel like in control of things and therapy but i'm really sorry this is like a really gross and like scary thing yeah we'll include some links in the description of the podcast about hotlines to call information for intimate partner violence so please reach out to those places if you need some help or someone needs some help in your life all right next call hi megan and melissa first off love the podcast so much i've been listening since season one in 2017 and my first call-in was in high school and was a titular episode in season three i'm 21 years old and i

Starting point is 00:34:18 use she heard pronouns and i'm a leo hey megan and my boyfriend is also 21 years old he him and and Aries. We've been dating for nearly 10 months now, and he is my first real relationship. And calling because I'm struggling with the impact his relationship with his parents is having on our relationship dynamic. My boyfriend had just moved out of his parents' house and out of state for school when we first met. I've been living out of state and on my own since I turned 18. I feel like this is relevant because I very much claimed autonomy from my parents since I turned 18, and I know that I value their advice, but that their opinions don't dictate my decisions. My boyfriend has a very different family environment and his parents are really overbearing.

Starting point is 00:34:56 He still tends to feel tied to what they tell him to do and it has started to impact our relationship in a way I'm not comfortable with. Our biggest issue has been that his parents are vehemently opposed to him flying out to meet my family with no apparent reason other than they think it's quote unquote too soon. I take issue and personal offense with this because earlier this summer, I flew out to meet and visit with them and stayed in their house with no issue. To me, it seems to be an issue of control and them not wanting my boyfriend to claim any sense of independence from them. There have been many examples of similar instances. My boyfriend made the decision to buy a plane ticket and fly out without telling them, but I feel like because he is an adult, he should be able to tell them that they have no place making decisions for him. However, I understand that he is in a far different familial situation than I am, and I really don't want to be caught in the middle of family drama in any capacity. I want my boyfriend to claim independence on his own terms, but I've expressed to him that I can't be in a relationship that feels dictated by his parents.

Starting point is 00:35:56 And saying this is what led him to decide to come without telling them, which, by the way, hasn't happened yet, but I will update you. I feel like I'm in a precarious situation here, and I want to proceed cautiously as I see a future with my wonderful boyfriend. I was wondering what insight you have on the situation and what advice you can offer me moving forward. thank you so much and sending so much love your way okay bye I have like two opposing views on this one which is my like lesser like thought process so I'll start with that because but it's being independent at 18 years old you're still close to your parents you've said but like you really like at 18 was when you really like were making your own choices and your own exerting your own independence I think is great I will say it's pretty rare in general and I also think that

Starting point is 00:36:52 in this instance I think what his parents are doing of being like you shouldn't go there like that is like beyond like that's like that is just straight up like controlling but the setting boundaries and like really being your own really calling your own shots and being super independent in that sense culturally it can be very different from different backgrounds and you didn't necessarily say unless I missed it like you didn't say that you're like financially independent from your family it seems like your family is recognizes that like you're gonna make your own choices and do all that and that's like great but a lot of time especially for people who are 21 and they're still in school or are very young, they're still financially reliant on their parents for money,

Starting point is 00:37:40 food, shelter, all of these things. And it can be a lot harder to exert complete and total independence because sometimes, which they shouldn't, but sometimes those things come with strings for parents and that is like calling the shots. So I understand you not wanting to date someone who has like full independence and autonomy over like their life and their life choices but I would say that it is not completely uncommon for a lot of 21 year olds to be in a position where they have to like appease their parents not that I think they should have to and that should be held over their head from their parents this is definitely not just a him problem and you might date someone else and come run into the same thing. But this to me is beyond the standard

Starting point is 00:38:35 kind of check-ins that some parents want because they're funding your life and they're doing all that stuff. Like this is very odd and controlling in the sense that they have already met you. You've stayed there and they don't want him to go meet your family. I don't want to read too much into it but if his instinct is to hide the fact that he's going from his family that's because he's anticipating the reaction and if they feel comfortable enough to say like you can't go do that with absolutely zero rhyme or reason other than it's too soon to me that just says that that's a really unhealthy toxic family dynamic and they don't want him to be it's kind of how sometimes conservatives talk about not wanting their some their kids to go to college to go to

Starting point is 00:39:22 like liberal arts school and get those other ideas sometimes being surround like sometimes when people come from really toxic backgrounds um and they're a part of like a toxic family situation they don't want their kid or the other people to see that this isn't how everything is and he might start questioning that authority but i don't see anything wrong with him just lying like i think that like whatever he needs to do for his comfort level and for his safety level you can't totally know why he's opting to lie versus tell them the truth and have them honor and respect that and i think as a partner in this situation i think the only thing you can do is like validate and encourage and support and also model by example like show the healthy relationship that

Starting point is 00:40:10 you have with your parents and the independence that you are allotted and if that is something culturally that he can eventually set up in his family dynamic without any severe like repercussions and it becomes honored like i think that's great but because it works for you and your family doesn't mean it's going to work for him and his family and it can be a little insensitive to assume that and again there's you don't lie to your parents about getting on a plane unless the alternative of telling them the truth is much worse. And I think when you grow up with good parents, most of the time, at least I found my friends with really great parents,

Starting point is 00:40:53 their whole thing was like, just don't lie. Lying is what will get you in trouble. That will be the thing. We would rather hear the truth when you're going to lie because the truth, telling the truth, those repercussions are worse. That to me is a pretty clear insight into that family dynamic. Here's my issue with lying in this situation, though. If he is financially dependent on his parents still and he used their money to buy the plane ticket, then I do see an issue with him lying about it because it's not his money.

Starting point is 00:41:23 Also, I think if he still needs to and wants to be financially dependent of them, then this could be a straw that they're like, you took our money and went on this trip to go see someone that we don't think that you should be going to a place that we think you shouldn't be going. and so we're going to cut you off completely or they could they could use it as a way to control him more as in you took this trip you know we're gonna have to check all the purchases that you make going forth to see where you're going and what you're doing so it could backfire but you know if he used this if he used his own money and doesn't depend on them financially for other things then you know if he he can he's over 18 he's an adult he can go wherever he wants them to go what wherever he wants to go like what they shared was an opinion they thought it they think it's too soon just because it's an opinion doesn't make it law and also does he want that

Starting point is 00:42:33 independence from them because like some people I mean he's 21 some people still like to you know have that hold especially like culturally like in a lot of American culture it's like you're 18 you're out on your own but like it could be like a cultural thing where like they're like no we take care of you until you get married I don't know I'm just throwing that out so what kind of relationship does he want with his parents i just don't and i don't mean this like in a negative way i just don't want you to speak for what you think he should have versus what he actually wants yeah i very much agree with that and my whole saying i don't think i think it's totally fine if you lie yes that is if it's your own money i think if it's not your own money that's really

Starting point is 00:43:24 bad and I as somebody who did not grow up in the greatest household you seem caller like you seem like you have like really great parents who are giving you a lot of agency and freedom while also assuming like giving you support and like are really respecting all this stuff for you and sadly that is you're in the minority that's not what everybody's experience is and you would miss out on a lot of amazing relationships friendships romantic relationships if someone not having that supportive of a family was a deal breaker for you that's not something that he can control and right now it feels like you're viewing his life like your life and you made the choice to be independent and I don't want to say this is a cunty thing your parents let you make that choice

Starting point is 00:44:16 like that's just how it is and the reason why you felt like that was all you is because you have great parents because they let you feel like they weren't allowing you to do this they were giving you the agency to make those choices and that's probably a conversation that they had before they even had kids about like what they viewed was going to happen when their kids turned 18 like how they were going to support you and it might have felt like all of that was within your control, but that is something that your parents talked about a ton when it came to parenting their kids before. That is not a luxury that everybody has. And again, it's not a choice that everybody has. You made that choice because you were in a situation that allowed that to

Starting point is 00:44:58 happen and not everybody else is. And I just don't think that we should be faulting people for especially, I mean, never, but also really, especially young people for making choices and decisions when in regards to their family and their family dynamic, that's about upkeep and keeping the peace as opposed to rebelling and fighting it. It's just a 21 year old is very young, but also old enough to know that there's a reason why they're making that choice. they don't feel comfortable pushing back and that's not because they don't have a backbone that's because the relationship they've had in the what the environment they've been in has not made that an option yeah the last thing i would say was uh and if you want a partner at any age

Starting point is 00:45:52 to completely like assert independence and cut someone off like melissa said there would be repercussions. And that could either be your cutoff or the rains get a lot tighter. And if you're the instigator behind that decision, are you going to support them? Are you going to financially support them? Are you going to cover their cost of living? Are you going to cover the cost of their food, their gas? Like, are you going to be able to provide for them what they were getting provided for before? Because those conditions were not great, but they were there because means to live if you're going to be demanding that of a partner you have a responsibility then to be that support for that and that also involves emotional support yeah and it kind of

Starting point is 00:46:41 in a way reminds me of the update that we had today the write-in update because they it's kind of in the same boat where the parents were they're 20 if i remember correctly i believe they're 20 and the parents supported them so much that they thought that they needed to make or they were making decisions for the partner as well like is it in that way where they feel like if they're supporting him so much then they need to make decisions that are better for you all as a whole or is it more of just like he just moved out which I don't think just moving out at 21 is a big deal at all like he just moved out and they're just being cautious because for them it's like this is the first time that he's leaving the nest essentially and this is the first time

Starting point is 00:47:36 that he's on his own and they're just being cautious because they don't know like they're just seeing how he's dealing with things being out in the world by himself without them probably making a lot of decisions for him where you've had three years to make that adjustment on your own yeah does this affect your relationship or does this affect like what you envision a relationship to be because people's relationships with their families like change as they get older and also like yeah it could literally just be like the reins are a little too tight because and and there's no malintent there and by next year they're totally fine with like him doing that so i don't know i yeah i don't know if it's worth it to kind of feel like this is drawing a line in the

Starting point is 00:48:28 sand for this when does this affect i mean you said this was like yeah it feels like he's they're too involved in the whole life this was the only example that you gave so i can't speak on that but it's sometimes parents are things people you just have to deal with um and tolerate because of like the people that you love and this to me is also not so his parents really hate you and then that translates into he lets them talk shit about you and all of that that affects your relationship but if he is just reliant on his parents at 21 and that is a deal breaker for you i you're gonna come across that a lot and i think it's important about separating what you envision for a relationship and what you picture it to be versus what the actual relationship is in front of you

Starting point is 00:49:15 and the practicality and like do you love this person do they treat you well is it the fact that their family is doesn't want to come him to come visit for like a week over the summer does that change your day-to-day relationship now and through the whole next calendar year yeah nothing's going to be perfect all the time i don't know i i think it's really hard to be the kid who has a tighter reign when you're in college it really affects everything and i don't think that we should put the onus on them completely and yeah some people are just different it's different paces of life otherwise i'll just resent you too you know like melissa said we don't even know what he wants to do with his relationship with his parents and he might not know yet and that's okay anyways

Starting point is 00:50:00 all right let's take a break hi oh my gosh what are you doing here what hello hello everyone needs to join the patreon to see some fantastic acting we were we're really using the space like that utilizing the set remarkable utilizing the set utilizing the set utilizing the set meissner technique you know oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah all right roll the tapes hi megan and melissa i am calling today about, um, comphet, comphet, or compulsory heterosexuality. So this is my six, I guess, is I'm 24 and I have been dating my partner who is a cis man for nine, 10 months. And I do love

Starting point is 00:51:23 him. I'm obsessed with him. I think he treats me very, very well. Um, I have literally like no complaints about our relationship and everything like it just seems like it should be everything I guess I want out of my existence like he treats me so well he respects me he's so respectful about women's rights in general and like with everything going on in the universe right now you know he's very cognizant of it he is he's just like one of those guys that like you see and you're like this is a good man good man you know but and like I do definitely feel like I love him but he describes just the way he feels about me with so much passion and like love and like passion and romance and I guess like I don't feel like that passion there and part of me

Starting point is 00:52:13 secretly wonders so I do currently identify it as um queer like in general but part of me does kind of wonder if the reason I'm not feeling like that passion and romance is because I'm actually not into men because otherwise this one guy like fits all of my boxes and all of my projections of everything and I guess what I'm asking here is like I don't know Melissa how did was the one like how how would you describe that or how would you say that's worked out for you and what is maybe your advice on like evaluating if this is someone that I am madly in love with or do I just really like them as a person yeah so I guess TLDR what are the signs that I'm actually in love with my boyfriend or or not cool thanks so um how i knew that mots was the one since you

Starting point is 00:53:15 asked me well let's see from the moment that i uh emailed him and i was like he's very nice no i i know you were probably nervous and you just stumbled but that brought us a good good barrel of laughs good yeah we had to i had to go back and replay it to make sure we heard you right but i knew that mots was the one for megan the moment that i saw them together i've said this before on the podcast but we all were working together at one point mots and i were both assistants um mots was working for oh it's both our manager now but at the time megan's manager as his as her assistant and so i walked into the management company that she worked with we were having a meeting for this podcast actually the initial meeting for this podcast and the way

Starting point is 00:54:16 that they looked in each other's eyes and the way that matzah's voice changed when he talked to Megan and Megan also had this kind of like giddy smiley look on her face yeah that when she was talking to him and they stood close to each other and they were kind of gazing each other's eyes and I said those two are fucking and that was the consensus around the office everyone thought we were fucking and then he quit his job and we started dating we told everyone and we were so nervous and they were like we thought you were fucking this whole time we were like we could have been fucking this whole time like what that's yeah that was the consensus of most people everyone's like dude get a room and i was like are we allowed to can we but what was the feeling

Starting point is 00:55:07 for you as like a a straight cis woman i really can only speak from my experience and i don't want to claim that like as somebody who seeks out content from the like lgbtqi community and like writings from people like friends and stuff my knowledge of like uh compulsive compulsory heterosexuality is by proxy is not never going to be what that is of somebody who is in your case like queer so there's like that very large caveat there but I never questioned it and even just how you're talking about this to me like you know and you're you're saying this like you're like he he should be everything I want should being like that key word there and when I've watched creators or have like friends or people who've exclusively dated someone of the

Starting point is 00:56:07 opposite sex like only ever dated like cishet men when they describe the first time that they were intimate or kissed or anything with in this specific case i'm referring to was two women it was like they described it as like this is what people write songs about like this is that this is the thing and in that moment it was like not necessarily that that person is who they're going to end up with but it was i can see how people do it i can see how people get married i can see how people are with someone who they love for years on end i can see i see what i understand how someone could be in love and the only way that i can compare that somewhat feeling as a cis straight woman is being in incredibly unfulfilling relationships and dating like whether it's toxic

Starting point is 00:57:02 relationships or just really unhappy relationships and then that one that is oh this is different than the rest like this is completely different than the rest and for me that happened one time and that's who I'm getting married to like it is it is as stark of a difference as you might think like I do believe falling in love with someone can be very like quiet and comfortable and casual and like I described that with like Mats and I that it wasn't like there was a one moment or something that was like incredibly overwhelming or anything like that my my first high school boyfriend who I mean I love Mott's way more than I love my high school boyfriend but like at the time I like loved my high school boyfriend as like much as I was capable of loving him and

Starting point is 00:57:49 I always describe that is it as it was like I accidentally fell in love and like we were friends and we like grew close and I like realized that but I think the older that I got and the more that I knew myself in my perspective like someone that you fall in love with is someone who you have a you you put a lot of thought into your relationship with them whether that's friends or romantic so before Mott's and I were even dating there was like lots of conversations about like what happens when we date like what all of this stuff and I think that was the back of my brain being like you really care about this person and if I can really really care about this person on a friendship level in the back of my head I knew that I could love that person more

Starting point is 00:58:31 than that and I also kind of think I always knew I was going to like love him like I wasn't surprised I wasn't caught off guard it was like the steady uphill towards that and I didn't feel like that in every relationship like that's not like a thing that I always felt but nine to ten months in if you're even questioning like this to me is if you can think that it might be because you're not attracted to men it's probably because you're not attracted to men because that you really love him and not in the same passionate way that he loves you and you really care about him and we don't want to inadvertently hurt the people we care about and I think that you recognizing that you might not be into men I don't think that's a frivolous thought that goes through

Starting point is 00:59:25 your mind I don't think that's like an impulsive thing that you act on like that's something that changes the trajectory of your life and it sounds like this relationship and you don't do that to people if that's not the truth and if that's not that's that's this is a lot for you to process And I, I don't think that we do that frivolously. Like, I think that you're thinking these things because they're probably true. And it could also be, you know, since you do identify as queer, it could be that it could just be him like that you don't, that you're not in love with. It could be, you know, like there could be another man that could come along that you

Starting point is 01:00:10 are actually in love with. Or, you know, like, as you said, maybe you're just not into men, as you stated. So I think if you're questioning it, then, you know, you could continue being in a relationship with him where you just feel comfortable, if that's what you want. Some people are in relationships where they just feel like this is just something that, you know, everything seems right on paper. I'm fine with that. But is that the kind of life that you want? I don't think so, because I don't think you'd be calling in if that was just fine with how you wanted your life to be. Like, do you want to be with something that's just fine? Like, this is OK. Or do you actually want to be in love? So if you want to be in love, then this person probably isn't the person for you.

Starting point is 01:01:03 And so, and that's fine. Like some people are meant to be in your life for just a, you know, a period of time. And you take some things from that relationship that you can, you know, learn from and figure out, you know, what you want from other people, other partners. and you know this might be just a it was a good relationship that could potentially he could still be a good friend to you but this isn't someone that you want to you know grow in a relationship with because if you're feeling like you are right now it'll it can just be stagnant and just be and because you're writing it i don't feel like you want to be in a stagnant relationship you want to

Starting point is 01:01:49 be in a relationship where you can grow and learn and feel from the other person yeah that you're right this isn't it like this like regardless of if this changes not necessarily how you identify but like who you date moving forward this relationship isn't it and like it's it's just not this isn't it and something's missing and you need to figure out what that is because you keep saying he's perfect on paper like he like everything it's great everything so like what is missing like what is that thing and it is better for both of you to to break up and maintain a friendship if that's something that maybe it's not an immediate friendship but like down the road there's something missing and if you can't put your finger on it if it's not a personality trait

Starting point is 01:02:41 If it's not something that was like, maybe like do an exercise where you keep saying that he's perfect on paper, get a piece of paper and literally write down every single thing that you want in a partner, write down like all of your deal breakers and obviously don't show him or tell him that. but then like does he match all of those things and are there things that like don't just write about him write about like a a non-gendered hypothetical kind of person and are there things that he cannot give you are there things that you cannot get in a relationship with a cis man are there things that like is a very important thing to you not being in a relationship with someone who is like an ally or an like active bystander in supporting like the your community like do you is it important to you to date somebody who's not just like accepting of your sexuality but is also a part of the community themselves like I think you need to write all

Starting point is 01:03:50 of this out and that might tell you you know what is missing and I think if you can't figure it out I don't know if this is like horrific advice but I would just be like be honest with yourself in the sense of like I'm really like unsure of where my head's at like what I want and I think we are better off as just like friends and like I really love you and I care about you and then I would date a woman or I would date someone who's not like a cishet man and I would again be like very honest and being like I'm not right now this is I identify as like queer and I just got out of a relationship and you know being very as anyone should be upfront and honest when you get out of a relationship to like kind of figure out what the hell like figure out what you want when you

Starting point is 01:04:37 have other people participating in that they'd have to make sure they know what they're in for and maybe that's toxic but i think if everyone all consenting adults and know that this is something that like you know you're trying to understand yourself more and whether that's like going on dates with people even just swiping on like tinder and all of those things because everything that i've learned about compulsory heterosexuality from an outsider i find it i honestly think anyone who also is like straight and really think encourage everyone to like researches and understand it it's great to understanding the people in your life who aren't straight and also just how the centering men works in in general everything I've read from

Starting point is 01:05:22 that is like when you're ingrained with something and visuals of things of like what thing what your life looks like and what is quote-unquote traditional and what has been shown so much in mainstream media it's an unlearning kind of process and I think that can kind of come from exploration. And I think that if it ends up that you are still into men, it's just that this specific man is not the person for you. I don't want you to feel like you have to choose between feeling confident and wanting to understand yourself more as a trade-off between a happy, like loving relationship like that this is this one is just not it and you don't have to stay in this because this isn't the last one that's ever going to happen you know yeah and also i just want

Starting point is 01:06:13 to you know say this again this is coming from two straight cis women so please if you're we have a segment called don't blame them if you're in the queer community and would like to share your thoughts on that please do yeah so just by the sound in your voice and the choice word choices I envision a callback in a couple months and I can just you seem really restless with not having this like clear definitive description of this feeling and you're gonna have that feeling and it's gonna be you're not gonna question it at at all and I think and again I can only speak from my perspective regardless of whatever kind of relationship you end up in if you can try and look at it like a friendship you know the friends that like you love and care about so much like

Starting point is 01:07:07 there's not a question in your mind that's the same thing with romantic partners like it's it's it's really not that different in that sense that there's there's no question so you're gonna find it and it just is whatever the answer is it's not him also we need to he is not a fantastic he might be a fantastic but he is not a fantastic man for caring about women's we need to bare minimum it is the bear it is it is the requirement you must have you must think i have value as a person in order to ride this ride all right next call yes hey megan and melissa love both your podcasts and have been a listener for years now i was lost on this issue and was hoping for an outside perspective and some honest advice i'm 26 she her and my friend in the story

Starting point is 01:07:57 we'll call her emma is 28 she her we met in graduate school in 2019 and we have remained friends after graduation a few of my other classmates also worked in the same city where we all went to school and so that has remained our core group of friends for the sake of ease let's call the other girls in the group alex sophia and izzy all she her all between the ages of 26 to 28. Emma is a loyal and generous friend. She has a really big heart and will always support you in whatever way she can. She always wants to see the best in people and sometimes that can lead to her being naive in certain situations. She is also someone who seeks deep connections with the people around her and in her own words she does this in two ways. The first is wanting

Starting point is 01:08:34 to be a part of every area of her friend's lives and this has led to her being intrusive and disrespectful with myself and Izzy and our relationships with the other people in our lives, including family, friends, and significant others. Izzy and I have both had one-on-one conversations with her about this to reinforce our boundaries and establish some privacy. Emma was emotional and expressed being upset that she had hurt us, but said that she wanted to do better. And mostly things have seemed to improve, at least for the few months after we've had

Starting point is 01:09:02 those conversations. The second is that she's a physically touchy person who wants to hug, cuddle with, stroke the hair, arms, or back of her friends. and within our group she does that almost exclusively with me. She will kiss me on the forehead or cheek or arm often repeatedly and always without my consent. She will stroke me and try to cuddle me and also slap my ass in what I think is supposed to be a playful manner. In recent conversations we have also learned that with people she dates she gets nervous about touching them without explicit consent but feels she can be more quote carefree in her friendship

Starting point is 01:09:37 So, presumably, I guess she feels like she doesn't need consent in those situations. Over the past few years, I found myself physically retreating in times when she touches me, and this visceral reaction has gotten to a point where even her hand on my shoulder during a conversation makes me curl up. I know that she has good qualities, and she's very sensitive, and I don't want to hurt her feelings, but I am very uncomfortable around her, and the other girls in the group have noticed as well. They have been really supportive and respectful of me controlling how this is handled. Sophia has offered to kind of casually insert herself to create some physical distance between Emma and I, and Sophia and Izzy have offered to speak up when they see something. But I think it's time for me to stand up for myself. I'm really struggling with how to approach this, though.

Starting point is 01:10:18 In other situations where men have crossed a physical boundary, I have not hesitated to speak up, and I'm typically a very blunt person, but for some reason, these physical intrusions with Emma have made me feel really paralyzed. Specifically, I'm struggling with what words to use, how or when to use them to communicate this boundary and i would love your thoughts and your advice thanks so much have a good day bye i do not like this me either if you are unfamiliar melissa and i are not touchy people like so this is both of our personal uh i mean i think this is anybody's regardless if you're into physical touch or affection or not there's no consent here so this is like never good for anyone

Starting point is 01:10:58 this is coming from the perspective of two people who do not like people did not like to be touched like we hugs each other sometimes maybe a couple times a year i poke megan at times too just to annoy her but like it's never in a way that if it's something where you're like don't do this and i won't do it but yeah no we're not yeah this is something that i've noticed and i'm sure this is conscious on her part because because i know how respectful she is of other people's boundaries but Allison Raskin anytime she hugs me she always asks first she says like she'll say can I hug you and I've always thought that that was like that's such a like a I don't want to say mature but it's just she's she's very conscious of other people and that's

Starting point is 01:11:53 something that I've picked up from her too where I don't really go around hugging people unless they Like they initiate it first, but I appreciate that she, you know, always asks before she does it. And I think that that's something that more people should instill into their lives. But specifically for this person, it's odd that one, that she is only doing this to you. So I had, I wonder why that is. why is she rubbing you and it sounds like she's petting you like petting your hair and just putting her arm on you smacking your ass which all that just it's just like it's making my

Starting point is 01:12:40 skin crawl just thinking of it the way that I would go about it would be stop touching me don't touch me but I know that you're trying to be more conscious of her feelings and to go along with that consciousness of her feelings. I do want to say that she's not being conscious of your feelings. So because of that, and we already know how she reacts to other things. So I don't think there's a way you can go about this without upsetting her. So I want to take that out of the equation. You're going to, no matter how gently or aggressively you go about this, this this going to upset her in some way? And so remember that she is consistently crossing your boundaries. She's consistently making you uncomfortable. She's consistently doing things

Starting point is 01:13:31 that you don't want her to do. So maybe even write this. I can tell that you had your call very well thought out. It was almost exactly three minutes. There was a ton of information and it seemed like you probably wrote this out. So I would kind of approach her with the same way that you approached this call and write down the way that she makes you feel. Just get it all out on like a piece of paper, write down all the feelings that when she's touching you

Starting point is 01:14:02 or doing things that you don't want, write that all down and then take it and kind of use it as like an outline for how you're going to actually approach this and say, hey, I know that you're someone that likes a lot of physical touch and I've noticed that you seem to gravitate more towards me and you're touching me and smacking my butt and rubbing my arm and I just want you to know that that makes me feel very uncomfortable and I would appreciate it if you stop doing that

Starting point is 01:14:38 and I think making it short and simple and concise is the way to go because if not then that gives a kind of it's kind of like when you're firing someone but you're not firing her as a friend but you're just you want to put up more boundaries you want to make it as short and concise as possible so then she doesn't take things that you say and twist the words around or try to make it seem like something that it's not. And so just keeping it very simple and, you know, I'm sure she's going to have some things to say, but I think what she's going to feel most of all is probably embarrassed. And so, you know, she, and she has the right to feel how she wants to feel, but she also shouldn't be crossing boundaries that you don't want her to cross. So let her feel

Starting point is 01:15:26 what she feels you can't protect her from feeling the emotions that she has but you also need to and want to let her know what's going on from your perspective yeah i'm much more harsh um emma has some issues that emma needs to work through and this is giving me the same thing as a uh in a relationship when a guy says that he's not i'm not really a good girlfriend guy like i'm blah blah and essentially sets the grounds to warn you about their future behavior emma knows this like emma has self-described that the two things that she does in relationships is she likes to be really close with people in the way that it's physically and really touchy and she owns that and says that and also that she um wants to be involved in every aspect of your life and know

Starting point is 01:16:22 everything about your life and be involved and an active participant in everything with like no privacy she's warning that so then she takes the ownership of her actions off of her and puts you and other people in her life past and present in a position where you have to opt out of this behavior that you didn't opt in for but her putting that warning sign is her thinking that she's by saying all of that and then you being friends with her that that gives her the free reign to do that as if what she's doing is the default but she also knows it's not the default because she recognizes these things are about her that that she does about her and she essentially warns the people in her life that she is going to do that and that's not health like that like

Starting point is 01:17:12 no that's not a thing and that to me just screams someone who has been called out for their actions and instead of recognizing what they're doing is harming other people and making people feel uncomfortable and that that onus is on them instead of doing that they're wearing it like a badge like it's something that is irrelevant how it affects other people because it's something that makes her happy and makes her who she is and making other people uncomfortable is not a key part of someone's personality or who you are to your core like pushing physical boundaries um i personally think being touchy with people without their consent or cuddling at any of that being like that you have to always assume that the default is i am not going to touch anyone's body

Starting point is 01:18:05 that's not mine like that's the default and she knows that like she she does know that and her being emotional because you guys confronted her because she was like giving intruding on all of your private lives and her crying uh that's manipulative and there might be no intended stupid malice with this, that she doesn't think that she's doing that, that doesn't minimize the actual impact of her behavior. And the coddling of being like, I don't want to hurt her feelings. Like Melissa says, she doesn't care about your feelings. She doesn't care about your privacy. She doesn't care about your personal boundaries. And she doesn't care about your consent. That's terrifying. And I think that we're giving her and you and your friend group are

Starting point is 01:18:51 giving her a lot of leeway because she's not a man. And I think that like, I'm never one to compare like well if this was a blah blah blah because i hate that because there is a huge power dynamic and imbalance uh when it comes to men uh non-consenting towards women and also violence against women and the physical overpowering and physical dominance but this this is bad this is bad regardless it might not feel like a uh imminent physical threat to your life in the way that it might if it was a man and it might not have those same feelings but you say that you like recoil at her touch you say that like this like sinking feeling like it's just making you a shit like it is having the same psychological impact on you and it's fucking with your mind more because we

Starting point is 01:19:45 don't view most of the time we we really view women as like a safe place from the world and from people who objectify us and who make us feel less than and who do all of that and this is not okay this is like I commend your friends for like trying to like intervene in this way but if everybody needs to tiptoe so delicately around Emma that it has to be orchestrated in a way to kind of mitigate her response to her own actions her repeated actions that to me is like that is not your responsibility as friends you have relinquished any of that whether she needs like some help help and she needs i don't know she's 28 so i'm just gonna be honest someone like people have told her this before. That's like what all of this is screaming to me that she's

Starting point is 01:20:45 not talking about this because she knows herself so well. She knows she does this because other people have been uncomfortable and she's collecting to try and have people who don't feel uncomfortable in her lives. And she's not doing it to new relationships because she doesn't feel comfortable to do that, but she feels comfortable to do that to you. That has nothing to do with you but you and your friends need to remove all of you from the situation with her it's not safe i i i do not care if she's much smaller than you and cannot physically harm you like your response to this is that of someone who is physically being abused like that is like when you're recoiling at someone's touch afraid of what they're going to do this is not okay and again i

Starting point is 01:21:33 don't care why emma is like this i don't care if this is unresolved trauma i don't care if she needs some psychological help that is all irrelevant once you start completely like just bulldozing over other people's physical boundaries and touching their bodies you've lost my sympathy you've lost my empathy i will have that from a distance but like you need to get the fuck out of this situation and i wish your friends had were saying that steadfast and true to you right now so you don't have to be the one to bring that up because that's a really hard place to be in to feel like the choice that you're making is going to impact everybody else's relationship with her i if it was a friend in my life i wouldn't let them do that i would be the

Starting point is 01:22:23 one i'm gonna make the call that this is not okay i don't want you to feel like you have to ask me if us and the rest of our friends can stop being friends with the girl who like will not stop touching you like i hate that and this is not how friendships are like supposed to be and i mentioned it in my book a bit i i mean i have lots of issues with physical but i mean i don't like physical touch but i have lots of issues with physical boundaries in general and some of like the most egregious ones of mine and the ones that have been like most psychologically damning have come from other women and it's not sexual but it's a mix of uh people who want to watch you squirm and know they have power over you because similarly to allison asking if she

Starting point is 01:23:08 can hug you before it's because allison doesn't want to make someone feel uncomfortable you know when you've done something that makes someone feel uncomfortable and when you continue to do that that's because that is what you're enjoying that's the enjoyment of that it is exerting your power and it's also infantilizing it's it's making it's stroking your hair like a mom would to her kid it's making you act like she's babying you and making you do that and that is another power thing to me it felt like uh she was treating her like a pit yeah exactly exact same thing like the power dynamic of i have all of this control over you i can feel you you squirm i can feel your heartbeat racing faster and faster. And I'm just going to keep doing this and I'm going to

Starting point is 01:23:54 keep pushing this. And it's psycho, it's a psychological power. That's what that's happening and showing. And she's trying to put this all underneath this, like, oh, I just care so deeply. I love so deeply. You do not care deeply or love deeply when you do not respect anyone else's boundaries as a 28 year old, because this is not the first time you've heard that. And if this is something that you need to get some help to deal with and process your trauma and why you are doing this to other people as a 28 year old to not have done that is a choice and your choice is you are choosing to hurt everyone around you and that's what your priority is and like i cannot stress enough that like she is not a good friend she is not a good person for you or anyone in your group

Starting point is 01:24:36 like this is not uh i don't want to hurt her feelings because like melissa said no matter what you do her feelings are going to be hurt no matter what she is going to be the victim no matter what And that's because in her mind, she warned you that this is how she was. And I hate this. Like when people warn you of their quote unquote bad qualities, which she's repackaged as she just cares so deeply, they do that. So then when they inevitably hurt you, they can be like, well, you got yourself into this and you didn't.

Starting point is 01:25:07 No, this is like very, very, very much not okay. And I just want to say that there's a really huge difference to me personally of someone doing this at 28 years old than someone doing this at 11 years old. A lot of the time, there are lots of people figuring out their sexuality, also just like figuring out their comfortability with things. There's a lot of times when you are a kid and you're in an abusive household or you're in a household with parents that don't respect your boundaries and you tend to do that onto other people. when you I have a lot more compassion for people kids who are younger going through this because their brains are not developed and they are mirroring the behavior they see at home or they're mirroring what they see on tv and they have not been set up clear boundaries with their families but at 28 years old that is a choice oh my god I'm so mad I will end this friendship for

Starting point is 01:25:56 you oh I want to do something I can't say on the podcast all right time for don't blame them so don't blame them is when you listeners call in and give your own advice on past calls it could be at life or it could be advice or experience or you just like i have thoughts on this so this one is we had a lot of people call in with this one a lot of people that they said they went through similar things in their family so I just want to thank everyone that called in you all had very similar advice so I just picked one at random hi my name is Melissa I'm calling with the don't blame them for the caller from the last episode the episode titled my best friend's dad wants to speak with me kind of horrifically something sort of similar happened in my family

Starting point is 01:26:55 where my uncle was messaging my cousin his daughter's friends and around the same age when she was kind of leaving high school maybe 20 but really similar to the age of the color. I really support what Megan had to say. I think that my cousin definitely wanted to know and felt better about the fact that her friend came to her when they had been receiving those messages from her dad. I would say that it might be a little bit better to have that conversation after you do whatever reporting you're going to do, just because I think it could really weigh on you to have whatever your friend's comments are in your head as you're moving forward with the reporting. And I also just want to say, I think that you should trust your friend that she,

Starting point is 01:27:39 especially because of how long you've been friends with each other, is not going to blame you and is going to see that it's not your fault. And I honestly think that if she were to blame you or hold it against you, either that the messaging happened, solicitation happened, or that you reported it, I think that would be a really big red flag about your friend and about her attitude towards situations like this and harassment of this client as a whole. Also, you know, I just wanted to say that things like this do happen, and I think it is really the right thing to bring it up, do something about it. When it happened in my family, I think the people involved were actually able to, like,

Starting point is 01:28:16 move forward in a way that felt okay for everybody. the marriage actually wasn't destroyed by it and my cousin actually does have a better relationship with her dad now they've had some time to heal from it the situation wasn't exactly the same that person in my family was not actually talking to pay for sex so that is quite different but overall this is also a really intricate situation and i think brought up a lot of the same fears and worries as you're called in uh anyway best of luck to you thanks megan and marissa for a great i could have never predicted when you said a ton of people called in about this one that it would be this call yeah i was shocked i was very shocked when i opened up the spreadsheet that had it but

Starting point is 01:29:00 we had numerous people going through the same or have gone through the same type of thing with different people it could have been their older brother their older cousin but it was a lot of people which is scary yeah i mean it's the byproduct of what happens when we fetishize very young women there's pedophiles and then there's groomers and then we think that the sexualization of like school girl costumes and very young women on tv who are then with like 45 year old men like we think that those things then don't pertain and that yeah there are criminals there are perverts there are pedophiles and then there are people who wait till other people turn 18 so they can claim that it's legal and it's the law that because they didn't act on

Starting point is 01:29:50 it doesn't mean that they weren't sexualizing very young women i think if we honestly like as a country and a world but i can't speak for this country i think if we addressed that as a whole I think it would help a lot because the the countdowns for you know Miley Cyrus to turn 18 like we took you talked about that on we did that on I talked about uh yeah I talked about uh the Olsen twins yeah I think if you know if we work to combat that I think it would help a lot because you know instead of seeing women as little girls that are controlled and simultaneously need to be protected and don't have any power or autonomy it affects how everyone treats women even people who don't fall under the guise of like being a criminal and then also letting little girls

Starting point is 01:30:44 actually be little girls and stop saying oh they're so mature and they look older or they they act older or they're they're you know just wise beyond their years just letting little girls and teenagers be little girls and teenagers yeah that's heartbreaking like I think about that all the time that I'm like I'm gonna have to go to so much therapy when we have kids and I'm like watching them be kids because I'm gonna be envious of of that as someone who is like always told like you're so mature for your age like all like even by the time I I remember then when I turned like 25 I was like wait so I missed out on being like fun and reckless and like I had like small little bits of those things but like i always thought that those were the anomalies because i had been

Starting point is 01:31:31 told that i was mature and then i just skipped ahead to a place where we all ended up eventually and i missed out on the the other stuff and yeah i think we would do a lot for how little girls uh are treated and then letting little girls become women like we don't let us be either like we're always in this that britney spears not a girl not yet a woman like always in that limbo of whatever is more moldable so yeah like melissa said thank you everyone who called in for that i could not have expected that so many people have dealt with that and thank you all for feeling like comfortable to share that here and also thank you to that original caller i and i'm i'm glad i'm sure it made a lot of people feel seen in this so

Starting point is 01:32:23 let's end on a high note we've got a good review though oh take it away all right so this says count me converted from sammy b dancing five stars you do be dancing i found this podcast after being a subscriber on megan's youtube channel side note love the cinnamon roll recipe i'm going to be honest and say that when i started listening to this podcast i was definitely a conservative and had a lot of backwards thinking after listening to season after season and after getting over my own big-headedness i truly started to realize that not only are these ladies giving great relationship advice but their moral and political standpoints are on point and make so much more sense than what i was raised to believe

Starting point is 01:33:17 thank you so much megan and melissa you have both changed my life in too many ways to count keep shining bright heart emoji that's the greatest compliment that anyone could ever give thank you for converting this is the kind of conversion that we believe in welcome to our cult our cult is deprogramming you from the alt-right cult right thank you wow that makes me happy and it's one that like I'm not trying to like toot my own horn or whatever but I always like to remind people who feel like incredibly helpless when it comes to like political stuff that is when I get in my dms all the time of people who are like I voted in my local election for the first time or I voted for the first time and if it wasn't for like following like the things that you post and

Starting point is 01:34:03 also just the other people that you share and like social media and all of that I think we think about social media being a really like negative thing politically and I think it really can be but we see a lot of like really great things and it makes me have hope for the future you know and I think when you're being honest and just talking from your own thoughts and experiences you don't have to rely on like saying like the right thing or saying something like I know there are times where we you know are specifically talking politics more more so on our other podcasts but most of the time we're just sharing our own thoughts and views it's not coming from like do this or that yeah i think that this show like makes politics personal because like right now

Starting point is 01:34:50 politics are completed with morality and just ethics and morals and like just rights and so we rarely yeah we rarely talk about legislation or like that stuff but it becomes like i think when you're in a bubble and then you can hear from people and that like what it means to have these political opinions in practice and like how you approach your everyday lives i think you're able to see a pretty stark different difference between people who claim that they care about people and people who do care about people and then who those people are voting for i mean yeah every time i hear marjorie taylor green speak i'm like oh my gosh there's no way anyone like she's convinced people that she cares about people like what huh wild well thank you all

Starting point is 01:35:42 so much for listening give us a call for an upcoming episode or send us a voice memo exact same phone number and email that we said at the beginning of the show is always in the description as well head on over to our instagram and comment the first episode of the podcast that you listened to or like the first one that you really like remember that stuck with you i feel like most people would remember the first one that they tuned in for would like to know that yeah and follow us there follow us on our socials everywhere we'll see you next time thank you so much goodbye bye don't blame me is a production by me executive produced by melissa de monts and diamond and

Starting point is 01:36:28 print productions edited by coco lawrence post-production sound by chris henry production assistance by melanie d watson music by ryan hunter and giacomo picasso

Don't Blame Me! - Compulsory Heterosexuality

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