Don't Blame Me! - DBM: Confused By Attraction to Boyfriend with Allison Raskin and Gabe Dunn

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Allison Raskin and Gabe Dunn of Just Between Us join Meghan and Melisa to give advice on: Forgiving a parent that did you wrong Splitting holidays with your family and your boyfriend's family Shame and fear of being a lesbian Including your mother in a wedding Buy our merch: https://store.dftba.com/collections/don-t-blame-me Follow Us! @meghanrienks instagram.com/meghanrienks https://twitter.com/meghanrienks @sheisnotmelissa instagram.com/sheisnotmelissa https://twitter.com/sheisnotmelissa @meghanandmelisa https://www.instagram.com/meghanandmelisa Affordable Therapy By State (Curated by Crissy Milazzo): tinyurl.com/y64kwdnf Need Advice? dontblameme.show Domestic Listeners Call: [phone] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of oh i was going to try and put our podcast names together but that's a lot of words this is don't blame me and we are joined by just between us which we are between them yeah between to just between the betweeners yeah betweeners what do you call your fan base we we don't we used to have names for them but now we don't i feel like i used to call my fans bangers yeah because of my bangs that makes sense it took me a second but i like that thank you i like that oh i used to call i'm just remembering i used to call them queer teens i used to call all of them they're adults now yeah but like even if you even if you were an adult you were still a queer teen even if you weren't queer you were

still a queer teen I think it's funny that you don't realize that that as we age so do the fans because you keep being like and everyone's so young and it was like we started this nine almost 10 years ago they're not that young anymore yeah I guess that's true I guess they're well it's hard to because we were a little bit older so like you still get people who say oh I watched you in middle school which is terrifying right yeah yeah I watched you in middle school or get that a lot You kept me company on the bus in high school. And I'm like, oh, no. It's cool, though.

How cool? Those are formative years. We have people that are like, I just graduated from grad school and I started listening to you when I was in high school. Yeah. Wow. I always try and do the math and I go, I think you were too young to be listening. Sorry.

I got it. You did? It flew. We've had issues. No, I'm having this problem, too. I feel like it's the weather. Yeah. I looked on Reddit because I was like,

am I a nasty person who's living in filth? And so I'm like, let me get a Los Angeles vibe check. And it was like, no, no, no. This is like, we're having issues with spiders, mosquitoes, flies, gnats, and any, all of the flying things. I hate, I don't like things that fly. No, I hate it. If there's a fly in my house, I'm like, I'm a failure.

No, you're like, I'm disgusting. I'm disgusting. I'm a failure. Nobody will love me. No, I feel the same way. If it makes you feel better, my house is pretty much sterile and I have flies. I was going to say both of us are people that, you know, scrub it up, dub and... No, when you're having like struggles with things like that, I'm like, that is the most relatable thing I've ever heard.

Whereas if I posted like my house is full of flies, people would not be like relatable. They would probably be like, of course your house is. Look at you. I know. I have this like terrible idea of myself as being Pigpen from Charlie Brown. That's me. I just think that's what people see when they see me, which is hard on top of being trans. Hey, and I've got to say, now as an adult, Pigpen, adorable. I know. Surrounded by dirt.

But I also don't blame Pigpen. I blame Pigpen's parents. And the other thing, I blame my parents, too. Is it a chicken and the egg situation? Because maybe he got called Pigpen and he was like, well, I got to keep up with this. But if they had called him, like, you know, like Brian, he would have not been covered in dirt. Hey, this would have been solved. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

yeah and maybe it's an allegory that's what they say in english class right maybe it's just an allegory for something else yeah for him having bad parents sorry everyone this is an advice show we give you wonderful amazing life-changing advice um and yeah i'm so excited to have both gabe and allison here because the people are stoked that you're here like our audience so many oh really that's so nice they i mean we love you both they love you both and like no one is surprised i like was looking for something big oh my god crazy crossover everyone's like okay thank thank god you're doing this again but this is the first time we've all yeah we've had you both on at the same time yeah this is allison's third time because she was on twice

by herself she's good at advice is the thing she's very good at advice we get a lot of messages about allison being good at advice really yeah i mean you also like went to school yeah you went to school for it well that i didn't go to school for advice i went to school for psychology It plays into it. I went to the school of hard knocks. That's why my advice is good. You and me both. This can be this side of the couch

and then this side of the framing. And that's why I sit like this. Yeah, really. It's chaotic and scrappy advice. That's like how I get through life. And it's fine. So if you want to call in for an upcoming episode, you can leave us a voicemail at 310-694-0976.

International listeners, you can send us an audio message at meganpodcast.gmail.com. And we also have our DMs open as well for calls and voice memos under three minutes each and over. Have your parents permission. You can let us know your pronouns if you would like to, but you also do not have to. And keep it all

anonymous. So come up with some fake names and bonus points if it's from a TV show that Melissa has watched and she will explain it to me afterwards. And for the written submissions, keep it under 300 words and make sure you provide as much details as possible because if you don't, we will fill in the gaps and sometimes we fill

them in wrong and then you're sad or mad. And tell us if you're sensitive so we can keep that in mind. we're not monsters that's what i'm saying like tell me if you're sensitive i'm not a monster yeah i did have to apologize to one person oh oh we i wrote back and apologized but i the problem is is i stand by my advice no that's yeah all right i want to know about that um oh and what we lack in credentials minus allison we make up for in opinions hey hey hey anyways shall we get into it let's get into it hi friends longtime listener of the jbu podcast

slash youtube channel since 2015 well i'm 26 she her i've been in therapy for eight years my question is it okay to go no contact with a parent who hurt you even if it was a long time ago and they are making an effort to be better i have anger and resentment towards my towards a family member for things that happened when i was younger and living under their roof they do not behave the same way towards me since i moved out due to boundaries i've put up but i'm still struggling to move on. I do acknowledge that they are a better person now overall, and I do see the effort they're putting into our relationship, but I really don't want to be around them. I find it painful and upsetting after visiting, even if the visit itself was fine. I also don't want to hurt

them by distancing myself. Thoughts? P.S. Why do we spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on therapy because someone else refuses to go to therapy? LOL. Woof. Yeah, I think that's perfectly fine. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm estranged from certain family members, but that being said, those people have not made any effort to change despite going to therapy. And mostly they go to therapy to further antagonize my dad, it seems like. But now they have the therapy language

to further antagonize my dad. So that's fun. But I think people can make overtures towards forgiveness or to change, but that doesn't mean that you have to invite that back into your life. And that doesn't mean that you have to cause yourself any distress while doing that.

I think you've done a good job. You're saying you've set up boundaries. you've got a better relationship with them and you can kind of to me leave it at that I don't think you have to like go overboard and also you know it's part of it is that you know not to be like Jewish or whatever but there's in Judaism the person asks for forgiveness three times and then you there's no obligation for the person you're saying I'm sorry to to forgive you you're you're supposed to make yourself better and enough to ask for forgiveness three times and then at the end of three times you go okay and you leave them alone because they they don't

want that so it's not like a constant thing where you have to every you know every month check in and be like do you forgive me now you're under no obligation in the real world and in judaism so you know what i mean like yeah i just think like that has been something that i've really taken in from my education, which is, you know, you don't have to consistently hear someone out and the person apologizing doesn't get the right to continuously be like, I'm different now. Yeah, I can't stand that. You leave it alone. Yeah.

Yeah. So to prove our odd couple dynamic, you know, I think that that being estranged from a family member has a really high toll and I think it's really painful. So it's not like you stopping seeing this family member will mean that you won't have bad emotions also. Totally. And so I don't know. Actually, the thing that popped to mind for me was actually asking to go to family therapy with that person, because maybe, you know, you're at a maybe there's things that can be worked out in that kind of space with a with a neutral third party and maybe saying things to them that you haven't been able to say before. But I you know, I really don't know. It's neither option is great right if if this person is still bringing things up for you but I think

if they have changed then I think some of the work is recognizing those changes and that's the work that you have to decide if you want to do or not right because I think we all have that where we all have people that view us from how we used to be and it's frustrating and it's like why can't you see me for who I am now but it's a hard thing for anyone to do to like change your opinion of somebody and to see the growth. And so that's like sort of the question is like, do you want to do that work? Because I think that you actually probably could, especially if you're like open to therapy and listen to us and all this stuff. But it's like the question of like, is this a priority for you to try to get to the place where you can see this person as who they are now? And

I can't I can't answer that question for you. But I think that family therapy might help. And also look, there are periods of estrangement, right? A lot of times someone's estranged for a few months, a few years and then decides that the toll isn't worth it. And so I think that the no contact thing doesn't need to be seen as as permanent, but maybe something you're like for right now, this is what I need might also be a helpful way to think about it. I think to giving someone a chance like I've talked about this on JBU, but my my dad was an addict and alcoholic most of my life. And he did something that was really upsetting to me in in 2019. And I was like in my room being like, he's not even going to care. And he doesn't even

know he did it. He's not going to apologize. And then I eventually went downstairs and was like, hey, this pissed me off. And I was fully expecting defensiveness. And he was like, oh, I'm sorry. And I was like, what the fuck? So, I mean, you know, it's possible. Yeah, I think it's a mindfuck in that instance where it's like as a kid, like, do you don't I mean I it depends on the person but like adults tend to like you know they have work relationships they have friendships they have their family like they have all these things but when you're a kid like you have like sure you have your friends you've teachers but like you have your parents and like they have been like the constant thing so I I think that like sometimes it is hard when

it it can feel like overnight like it feels like a change like since you moved out and it's like it's the change that you want but it's like a what is this so if it was this easy why didn't why didn't you do it before but also like it you might not trust it so i think that like building resentment when someone is making a conscious effort and like if you weren't like actively so burned from it that like you might actually appreciate the effort like i think taking a step back to be mad because you said you're 26 and you uh they don't behave the same way since i moved out I don't know when you moved out but like I think you're allowed to be mad at someone and I think like you know when you're not looking for a resolution you just like need to feel your anger

I think not directing that at them because you're not trying to resolve it like you just want to like I need to feel pissed off and like be pissed off and like take some space for that and then decide if that effort there feels like genuine true and something that like you're willing and open to receive because if you're not you're just not going to take it in yeah and then also because you said it's painful when you're with them and when you're not so like weighing which one is more painful also can help give perspective on that but i do think like trying everything that you can try first and if they're open to you know going to family therapy going to it but if they're resistant and it's still painful while you're going through that I think that's like after you've done

everything that you can do then that's when you kind of cut your losses after that are they open to hearing what they did that was the thing with my dad he was open to hearing what he did and he didn't make excuses right yeah different than just changing the behavior but like hearing like oh that hurt me. And then like discussing that. Yeah. Because with my brother, whenever I tell him what he did, he acts the next time as if he doesn't know what he did wrong. I don't know why you don't talk to me. I don't know what I did. I'm like, I tell you every time. Yeah. Whereas like my dad took that in and said, oh, I mean, he he had some he explained why he did it. And then he was like, but that wasn't right. Wow. Revolutionary. That's that is that's that's

impressive. Oh, it took, I don't know, 15 years of Alcoholics Anonymous. Yeah, that's just that's impressive. It shouldn't be impressive, but it is. Well, you know, I'm a big supporter of doing whatever you need to do, because like Melissa said, exhaust your options because going no contact is not anybody's first choice. All right. Next one. Hello, wonderful members of the MMCU and the DMPPU, the Diamond Imprint Productions Universe. I'm 24 using she, her pronouns, writing in about splitting the holidays with my boyfriend, 23 using he, him pronouns. My boyfriend and I have been dating for four and a half years and then long distance our entire relationship aside from the summers in college, during which we would return to

our hometowns, which are 30 minutes apart from each other. Because we started dating as teenagers, I've been hyper aware of the fact that we're young and everyone views us that way. This is definitely a defense mechanism of mine against the judgment from others of having a serious relationship at a younger age. We've always been extremely vigilant about keeping ourselves in check and reminding ourselves that we're young as we move through our life. Last year, it was set that my boyfriend would spend Thanksgiving with my family, as two

of his three older sisters would be at their significant other's houses. I told my parents over that summer that I planned to spend most of the Christmas day with my boyfriend's family, effectively the first time we would be spending our holiday together and splitting between our families. This was the first time also that I had ever made a choice that my parents would not have made for me. Their reaction was not good. This whole situation and the larger themes were very hard on me.

On Christmas Day, I ended up staying at my parents' house longer than I anticipated due to my succumbing to my family's pressure. Consequentially, my boyfriend's family was upset that I didn't spend as much time with them as he spent with my family on Thanksgiving. Shortly after Christmas, I told my boyfriend that I really didn't want to go through all that again next year, and at least for another year, I wanted to do holidays separate. He agreed. Last week, my mom and I were on the phone, and she mentioned something about Thanksgiving. It led to her asking what my boyfriend and I's plans were. I basically just reiterated to her that last year was hard on me, and this year we plan to do things separately to avoid backlash.

My mom and I ended up having a three-hour long conversation in which I explained how the events of last year hurt my feelings and why I'm not interested in trying to share the holidays again. My mom asked a lot of good questions about my feeling and mindset. I had some feelings of resentment towards her because her attitude was so different from our discussions last year. I've just been assuming that her mindset was the same, but I do appreciate her growth. She concluded by asking me what my long-term plan is.

I definitely felt resentful in that moment because she was using the same strain of logic that I was using last year. I was acknowledging that my boyfriend and I are young, but asked if I don't start making my own decisions now, when should I? I've been grappling with her questions since she asked. The reality is that even if I waited a year or two, my family and my boyfriend's family would likely still have a negative reaction to us splitting holidays. So how do we decide when the right time for us to start spending the holidays together is? When we live together, when we're engaged, I feel like an argument can be made for any stage of life. I would really love any insight or advice you all have on this topic. Thank you so much. Have a great day. people are ridiculous I just like I mean uh and I know so many families do this and so many families fight over the holidays but it's like just like let your kid go do this one day and then have

another day with your kid and their partner it's like so much to navigate unnecessarily in my opinion yeah people like they use it as a way to flex we're the better family we have our he wants to be with us like we're you know our kids always want you know what it is is that it's I've seen a lot of parents be like it's irrelevant what my kid wants I want the pictures where we all look like a happy family I want to be the mom where my kid is obsessed with me and let me tell you you're not Lauren Graham or whatever am I allowed to say that yes okay but I'm just saying you're not your kid is not a pound of flesh off of you your kid is its own person her his their own person. And you can't be like, well, I want to have all of my little things so that we can take

gorgeous pictures together and everyone will think I'm a perfect parent. No, you're the kid gets to make their own decisions. Like it's this thing where I think it's all about optics and they want to seem like we are the better family because now they have a family to compare against. And I don't know. That's been it's like you don't think you don't care about your kids feelings. You care about optics? Look, I don't think it's always optics. I think also like certain holidays are very meaningful and there's traditions that have been in place and it's like there's a real loss that the kid's not there and it's times are changing and it's hard. I don't think it's just for a Facebook photo, but I think like that, the actual question of like when I actually think that

when you live together, that is a great marker. Like I think that like you kind of answered your own question because once people live together it's like you're seen as a unit in a way that you're not when you live separately whether or not that's valid for the type of relationship you have like how people view it so i i that's honestly i know it's simple that's kind of my advice yeah you go we're our own family yeah yeah and it's like because you've gone all these years like 24 years this is what you do it's like you go home like and it's like that's not my home anymore. Right. I've moved past that. You know, I am I'm still your child, but I'm not a child anymore. Yeah. It's unfortunate that that has to be the marker. Yeah. But it's funny because I've

seen definitely with my boyfriend's family, it's acceptable for the people that are married, the siblings that are married to just do their own thing. But because he's not married, he's expected to go home. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you're saying. Yeah. I think I agree. I don't know anybody who swapped holidays when they were just dating and not living together like i and i like most of the time anytime i know people who you both of you go somewhere else i have to say my in-laws lucked out because my sister like matzah's our sister-in-law she's jewish and then me orphan so they get all of the holidays they like don't orphan i mean orphan my choice but like they don't have to like they get it like they get it all and so like that i was like damn you

guys really lucked out like you know the stereotype of like it's boy moms don't win in that like they like hold on so tightly to their young because like oh oh if they they're if their sons marry women they're just gonna want to go and be the girls family like it's gonna be this whole thing and i was like you lucked the fuck out so but i don't for my friends who are in relationships like they and they share the same holidays they didn't start splitting off as like a unit and going to like one side of the family until they were living together and matas parents i found this out a couple years ago they didn't do it until they had kids they like had a house they lived together and it wasn't until they had their first kid that like they did christmas together and i was like that's

so like in my mind i'm like that would be so odd but i think you're right in the sense like when you live with your even the framing of it that like when you have an apartment with like roommates and friends, like when you say you're going home, you mean the house you grew up in or like where your family lives. But yeah, when you are in a relationship with someone, then you start to think of home as your apartment. It could have been the same fucking apartment you lived in with those roommates. But now it's you and your partner. You're like, no, that's my that's my home. That's our home. And so like it's a difference between like your apartment versus your home. Get a cat, get a dog so you're like sorry we're a family exactly I will say I don't want to say like

single people can't think of their apartments as their home you know but it's the reframing I think that when you're living together you also have the opportunity to host right so it's the first time we're like you can also have them to your home your joint home and I think that that changes things too right because sometimes it can be like well why don't we do Thanksgiving and then both sides can come and you can start to almost merge the families more than just having these be such separate holidays that was a whole thing no one like when i was a kid my grandparents like they they for christmas they might have came on both sides might have come like i think the only time they actually came was when melanie was born that was the only time but it was like we had to go to

them and well yeah and uh patriarchs and matriarchs be like that sometimes yeah and but they lived in the same area and but it'd be like where are we going to open presents like it was like an argument every year yeah it's also you should talk to your boyfriend more about it and come to an agreement as a unit again you know not against them but you know what i mean come to an agreement that you're on the same page in my last relationship this person was obsessed with their family and there was absolutely no room for any sort of like there was no anything period well okay Melissa but sure there's a lot of compromises on my end but there was no there was no room for going to my family or anything and it would be every birthday of every member of the family had to be home and

every like I I am obsessed with Halloween and I was not there they have a relative with a birthday on Halloween and I was not allowed. Like it was. That's actually crazy. Yeah. Because you had to go. I mean, I never it's never been maybe it's just different families. It's never been like, well, I got to be home for dad's birthday. And it would be there was one time where it was my birthday on June 1st and a relative of theirs birthday on June 8th. And they were at their parents. And I was like, well, they're going to come home for my birthday. And they didn't. They stayed for their mom's birthday. And that was rough. Yeah. I don't get that either. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a codependence that you have to be on the same page about. If I was

like that, too, or if I didn't really care, you know, but I think you and your boyfriend should come to some sentences that you're going to say, you know what I mean? Come to some stuff that you're both going to hold on. Yeah. And also, like, where do you like to spend the holidays? because like I think that's another part of it that like if you has better food yeah like if you're like I actually really like being at my parents for Christmas like I have more fun there I think that like if you see yourself with this person like long term like you will share holidays together eventually but like you also don't have to it doesn't like make your relationship more serious or more legitimized or anything like that like if you're like I actually fucking

hate the food that they my family serves on Thanksgiving but like I don't want to tell my mom like the turkey's like dry as hell like let's do that or like I really want to do like both like I don't think like if you want to do Thanksgiving and Christmas with your family I think that's also very okay and he's allowed to want to do it with his family like I don't think you have to do it together because eventually you will and like I think it sucks being long distance and I wonder if part of that is why you feel like we have a break so we want to spend time together so like that's also hard yeah yeah here's a sweet thing that happened this week my uh nephew who is 12 and his voice is 12 i know i'm sorry that's not that's unacceptable he has the deepest voice i

don't know it's deeper than his dad's but he called i've like i talk to him all the time but it's more like passing by like hey auntie like that type of thing but he called me on sunday and he was like are you coming home for in december i said what if i said i wasn't and he goes well then you gotta send me a plane ticket oh god i love that yeah that's really fucking sweet oh that's fucking adorable like every family has its own culture right and so like some families are there's expectations that other families don't have and so it's like a lot like you're always like every relationship is an intercultural relationship because you're from different families and so you like this is just one of the many things you're gonna have to navigate

yeah and maybe it's easier for him to like disappoint quote-unquote disappoint his family so then like do his first in the first half of the day and then go to yours after if you've like a hard time leaving because you feel guilty like you can hack the system in that way like based on how people respond i'm saying that's what we did but then they there would be a different type of competition going on. United Front. You and the partner, United Front. Yeah. Well, we're going to take a break. We're back. We're going to get into the rest of the submissions. Wonderful. cue for don't blame me i'm a 24 year old cis girl dating a 23 year old trans boy we've been dating for almost two years in early 2021 i started the process of deconstructing the

the religious trauma i have for my time in church and accepting that i was queer eventually concluded i was bi i've never done anything with women but was very in love with had crushes on girls throughout my life in the past couple of months i've learned about comp het and realized how little attraction i've had towards men besides my boyfriend thought of being with other men again makes me nauseous i adore lesbians and queer people i feel proud and move to tears when i see queer love but i also feel deeply ashamed of the realization that i'm probably a lesbian i'm also so confused by my attraction to my boyfriend i'm very attracted to his manliness specifically

and I fully view him as a man I've never loved someone so much how do I get over this deep shame and fear of being a lesbian

and can I stay with my boyfriend yeah look here's the thing so just for anybody who doesn't know I'm a trans guy hey what's up

what hot voice we can't redo this we can't we can't redo this whole thing where Allison pretends she doesn't know I'm queer

anyway okay it's still funny but whatever so here's the thing there, I understand that you've looked into compet and that's amazing. And there's a lot of stuff where compet sort of dovetails with biphobia in some ways and creates a lot of either. It makes people feel very liberated once they realize that they're actually more of a lesbian than they are straight or bisexual. So that is definitely something to look into. However, there are a

lot of people for whom learning about it does cause distress. Now here's the other thing, And this is spicy. Okay. Transness is a little bit more complicated than we've given credence to because there is such an attack on trans lives constantly in terms of violence, in terms of politics. So similarly to how queer people had to sort of song and dance for gay marriage because we wanted protections legally from a government who hates us, we had to sort of do this thing where we were like, we're just like you straight people and present a very clean, good, respectable public political image. Right now, was gay marriage really necessary? Absolutely. In the wake of the AIDS crisis, a lot of queer people were left destitute because they didn't have access to their partner's money. They were not able to visit their partners in the hospital. So, yes, as a reaction to the AIDS crisis, gay marriage was absolutely necessary. Now, because there is such an attack on trans lives and on trans children in particular, there is this push right now to make a very clean narrative, which is trans people are in the wrong body.

Trans people are binarily the gender that they are quote unquote becoming, that in order to be trans, you had to know at a young age and you have to never waver on that, ever, ever, ever. And the thing is, is that historically, which is something that we don't bring up and that a lot of people don't know is that historically gender was a little

bit more wavering a little bit more fluid there currently are people who identify as non-binary lesbians there are people who are trans guys who relate to lesbian culture who still remain in lesbian culture who came

from lesbian culture there are trans women who see deeply relate to gay male culture who have that in their background and I don't think Being trans ignores where you come from in that history. Some trans guys believe that they were always men. I do a podcast called The New Guys. My co-host River will say I was never a woman.

I was always a man. I don't feel that way. We're both trans guys. I feel like I was a woman. Now I'm not. We both deserve rights. So I think there is this history where lesbians have historically dated trans men

with no problem, with little to no problem in terms of identifying as lesbians, with little to no problem in terms of understanding that gender is fluid and that yes, you can say trans men are men, but also, also they have a different socialization. A lot of us have a different lived experience and some people for that, for them, that is painful. And so they want to be seen as men. And for some people that's not as painful. And so they're okay with that. So really in terms of your identity you can identify as whatever you want and if people tell you as a lesbian you cannot be with a trans man they are ahistorical they don't know queer history they don't know gender history and they're wrong essentially in terms of gender politics and having read a book

or or any sort of queer history so that being said of course also you know there is a situation where a lot of butch lesbians have historically felt more masculine. Maybe they're not trans. One of the beautiful things about queerness is that we don't have to adhere to heteronormative or cisgender rules, laws, identities, anything.

The history of lesbians dating trans men is long. It exists. It does not negate them being lesbians. You can find it in our history, in books, in fiction, in everything going back as old as time. So that being said, it really comes down to

what your partner feels comfortable with. If your partner feels uncomfortable because you identifying as a lesbian is triggering to them and they're in their identity, you might not be compatible. If your partner is like, I completely understand. I come from lesbian spaces.

This makes total sense. Your identity has nothing to do with how I identify and we can still be together. Great. but as it really comes down to you two talking this out but in terms of public and societal look or whatever you don't have to make sense to people to whom you don't make sense but you have to make sense to yourself and you have to make sense to your partner and if people give you a hard time because I do see a lot of pushback on how can you be a non-binary lesbian how can you

identify with you know he they pronouns but still use the term lesbian fuck them because that is someone who who hasn't looked into and doesn't have a read on queer history if it's a cishet person whatever unfortunately they do make our laws and so that kind of sucks and that's why we've had to push this narrative but if you are a queer person if a queer person comes at you in that regard that just because someone's queer doesn't mean they know queer history or have a good nuanced read on gender politics so they're wrong hope that was helpful great that's perfect that was wonderful let's move on yeah nothing to add and if i did i wouldn't say it and it also confirmed that i've been reading the right things i like read the whole compact like

the whole guy i was just i get very fascinated i get like random lesbian master doc and i get very fascinated by things and then i read an entire article similarly about like queer history and about all of that stuff and i was like i just felt like i got you read the right things i was cool yeah 1910s and 1920s lesbians um identified themselves as the men in the relationship you can look that up so gender's gender's wacky y'all yeah and it was much less binary than it is now kinda yeah well next one next one hi melissa and megan and both of you i 24 she her am newly engaged my fiance 26 he him we have been together for three and a half years and i am so excited to marry him. I'm writing in to ask for advice on dealing with my passive aggressive mother during

wedding planning. I am her only daughter. I have two older brothers and I'm so glad that she's excited for me and loves my fiance. However, we have already butted heads a couple times when it comes to vendors and the overall aesthetic that my fiance and I have in mind. For example, I showed her inspiration for potential wedding colors and she looked at the photos then just handed my phone back to me without saying anything and had a straight face. Me wanting to include her said, what you don't like it and she responded by saying well it's not my wedding and then continued to send me one specific color of bridesmaids dresses that she loved quote-unquote multiple times in a row and got quietly upset her text message response was okay when I sent it boomers text as if they

hate you they write okay with no period or with a period like in a way that is like wow I can feel this through the phone yeah I'm like is she paying for the wedding that's my big question Allison, take it away. I gave my speech about queer history. Allison, marriage, take it away. Yes. So I just got married in August and my parents paid for the whole thing.

And when that happens, it's a very different dynamic than if you were paying for it. And then this is just your mother sort of like sharing ideas. So I think if you're paying for your wedding and your mom isn't, then her suggestions and input

are just those they're just suggestions and input they're not anything that you need to do they're not anything that you need to like account for obviously if it's things about her role in the wedding where she's like I want a corsage or I don't want a corsage like if it's things that are going to impact her directly and just her then like her feedback is maybe something you want to pay a little more attention to but if like they're not paying then like this is your wedding and like it's it's taking that leap of doing something that you know your parents don't approve of potentially for the first time and that being scary, but also you being able to tolerate that discomfort, you know, so that you can have the wedding that you two want.

Now, if your parents are paying for the wedding or are partially or significantly paying for the wedding in any way, it is, I think, a bit different. Obviously, different cultures have different beliefs around this and different sort of like guidelines in terms of how much input the parents have. But for me, the fact that she said it's not my wedding implies that in her head, she does think of it as your wedding, but is unable to prevent herself from sharing. No poker face, no poker face. And so then that's hard because then it really falls on you to sort of navigate. How do I walk this line between the thing to keep in mind is like if your parents are paying for this wedding or in a significant way it's kind of also

their party and I know that like maybe that's a sad weird thing to say but like that's how I felt like I felt like I am putting on a huge celebration with my fiance and my parents and we are a team and we're putting on this production together and sometimes team members butt heads and want different things and throughout the whole process I just kept screaming no one respects me as a bride because honestly they they really didn't and so fucking stressful um but you know and it's it's a negotiation right and it's like you know what like what are the hills that your mom would die on you know because you don't want to give in to every single thing but if there's something like if you can get to the core of why something is important to them then I think that that's

really helpful and it might even change your preference so like if it's like okay like why don't you like this color and it's like well I worry that it's not going to look good on all skin tones maybe that's something you hadn't thought about before or maybe they just say I had a dress that color and I was seven and I hated it then it's like okay well I like it you know what I mean um and so I think that like really getting to the root of of what their preferences are and and then deciding piece by piece what you want to take what you don't want to take but I think that like I I felt like there's this narrative of like the wedding is your day you're the bride you're in charge and like I had to kind of let that go and be like this is a family

production and like my opinion matters but it's also we're building this thing together and then you get less resentful and like more collaborative yeah I think of it as like you know someone who's producing a movie like they there's they don't just give the money with no strings like they have a say in it and I think that when you have very strong feelings about something and you want somebody to agree with you and also pick the same thing that you picked but without you telling them you have to pick this one this is the one that i want you construct how you present the two options so i think of this as like when you're doing a costume fitting for something and you want production to pick one so i'm going to insist that the photo of the outfit i do not like in

the photo it is an unflattering photo i am moving i am not smiling i am dead behind the eyes and then the one that I like I'm smiling we've we've maybe tweet we've upped the lighting we've we've we added some saturation like we're editing this photo and it's it's gorgeous and it's like you're shining in that one that's obviously the right choice like so you're saying manipulate yeah if you have strong feelings it's a ethical scam yeah it's behavioral economics is what it is that's what I do it's behavioral economics you're actually doing something that is um proven to work yeah and sometimes like with like moths like I love him to death but sometimes he I know for a fact that if I'm showing him multiple options if I'm putting on an outfit I'm like what about this

what about this what about this or if I'm showing him like house things he's gonna always forget the first four and remember the last one just say just go with the last one so the one that I like the most I'm gonna put last yeah because I know that that's what he's going to stick with it's like people remember the auditions where you're the first one of the last one like there are certain things like that where it's like if you have a strong belief but like I agree with Allison and like there are certain things that you like might not have an opinion on and so like it would be helpful to have her there but i also think if this is something you have a really strong opinion on then you need to orchestrate how you're asking for her feedback in a way that like you're gonna

end up getting what you want so but she doesn't feel like she's giving it to you because then she'll create other hills to die on that like she might there's like it's a power i think there's a power struggle there people feel wanted yeah you're legally a scientist thank you i love that and i'm going to be adding that into everything it's in our intro now oh god um but also like I benefited from people's input like things that at first I didn't like or like was resistant to they were right and so I think also like having a little humility throughout the process of like sometimes other people might be on to something is helpful yeah comes to a shock to no one that I'm a little mean what the thing is is that you're volunteering for her to have the information

because you said you're just showing her because you want her to feel included but you actually don't want her opinion so if you don't actually want her opinion then don't share it like you you want her to like be around but you don't want her to say anything so don't volunteer the information i love that idea that's a great idea yeah you're right melissa i pick and choose what i uh want like my parents have offered to buy many of things and i pick and choose what i let them buy because i don't want them to have opinions on the things that i get so yeah you know i'm just like i'll take it i know you're like i'll take it i'm like it's it's national daughter's day send me some money it's uh deposit money into your daughter's

account day send me some money those things just send me money but i don't want you to buy specific things for me i do that too they're like which one do you want and i'm like you know why don't you just send me the money and all which is which is so i used to really now i i would like more likely to take money from them if they do offer it, even though I know they absolutely don't have it. But you know what? It's none of my business. I can't I can't co-sign that enough. I think it's none of my business. Maybe they got it illegally. Maybe they didn't. Who cares? Why would I ask questions? Why am I asking questions? No, none of my business. I'm not going to turn down free money. My dad tried to give me like cash in a suitcase one time and I didn't take it. But

i'm like what do i what am i a saint whatever even if the police interview you're like i didn't know anything you're not lying i had a therapist i was so mad at my dad about something that he had kept hidden and i was talking to my therapist and i was like i'm gonna run a background check on him and she was like i can't advise enough that you don't do that because then they can't call you in yeah i was like yeah you're right it's about selective information yep we don't we all don't need to know everything no best of luck on your wedding I'm so sorry I'm like so anti-wedding like I'm happy for people is the most passive aggressive thing you can say I just feel so bad like I just think it's like I'm so happy for people who have weddings and like have like a

good time like doing it but I think it's a lot better if like I think it's better when your parents are paying for it but like I I like so deeply feel for people who like spend like a year being miserable and like so anxious and like so up and down like and feeling just in all of this stress on top of their job that they're paying to do and then they have like this one day and like it doesn't go well I could just feel I feel just I feel it's pressure I feel so bad I'm gonna have a bar mitzvah does everybody want to come to that yes because I had a bar mitzvah my full dj yeah and now I'm gonna have a bar mitzvah yeah does your does your fiance want to dj my bar mitzvah no he doesn't okay that's rude no but i'm i'm so i can't like i don't know the last time i had fun

at a party except for what is it seventh grade like that was like yeah my social life your wedding was great yeah your wedding was great i wasn't stress leading it wasn't a year of stress it was a year of fun and also you were you like your parents yeah that's true i was trying to find a way to say that in a way that it's like and like you are you're like a very rational person in the sense that like, you know, you if the day doesn't go perfectly, you're not going to be like and the wedding's off and when can never see John again and nothing is right in my life. And I you know what I mean? I think you've really reasonable and like like expectations of people and like yourself, like you're like very healthy mindset of of that, that it's not you

don't put stock in one person to like ruin something. Yeah, but I guess that's like the saying of like i think you have you can do this experience without it being so stressful oh no totally you know i think we kept being everyone just kept being like oh my god you guys freaking out we're like no yeah like there were moments of stress and it was like stressful when it was like we had to completely redo the ceremony under a tent instead of a rooftop because there was like a rare tropical storm so it wasn't like all sunshine but i i do think that like figuring out like what you're excited about and like focusing on that instead of like what can go wrong is like oh yeah really helpful like john and the seafood bar exactly i never even saw it

was so good but it wasn't all sunshine but there was a rainbow there was a rainbow and it's a personality thing like i don't like i will stress over things that i like don't care about like i'm just i know it's like i'm not and i have friends who are like so chill and like whatever happens happens and like i can like not care about something but then suddenly i care and then i'm like so i just i'm like i get so i get easily overwhelmed yeah so it's just knowing like if it's a good fit for you or not i'm i have a to-do list to make me cry so like planning a wedding is like actually my personal hell i can't even respond to an email like it's i'm not good at that that's why you got to get that wedding planner i would have been horrible without the wedding planner

i'm just gonna pop up married one day i know she's i know all right that's the end of the episode thank you all for listening if you as we said at the beginning of the show if you want to write in send us a email to meganpodcast at gmail.com 300 words or less if you want to call us i just don't know 310-694-0976 send us a dm as well and uh yeah where can people who maybe are not privy to the jbu universe the jb universe universe where can they follow each of you as well as the podcast the pod is just between us it's on instagram at jbu podcast it is on tiktok it is on youtube at just between us i'm at gabe s dunn on instagram and i do not have x formerly known as twitter okay yeah um our podcast is pretty much available wherever we

also have a patreon patreon.com slash just between us please join it'd be weird if you just heard us for the first time you're like i'll give them money but we'll take it i have more people to be like that but here's a bonus if you subscribe to the patreon you get more of me that's true more more melissa and then i'm just at allison raskin on socials and i also have a mental health uh instagram and sub stack called emotional support lady hell yeah all right and so uh tune in tomorrow for see you next tuesday cunt and then wednesday of course we don't have an episode but listen to jbu on wednesdays hell yeah on thursday tune in for but am i wrong and then on friday we've got fisting friday fisting friday okay goodbye

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