Don't Blame Me! - DBM: I Don't Want to Get Married

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

This week Meghan and Melisa are giving advice on: Attachment styles and dating Parents still parenting even though I'm in college Making friends at work Racist Boss Follow Us! @meghanrienks instagram.com/meghanrienks https://twitter.com/meghanrienks @sheisnotmelissa instagram.com/sheisnotmelissa https://twitter.com/sheisnotmelissa @meghanandmelisa https://www.instagram.com/meghanandmelisa Affordable Therapy By State (Curated by Crissy Milazzo): tinyurl.com/y64kwdnf Need Advice? dontblameme.show Domestic Listeners Call: [phone] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Don't Blame Me, where we give you wonderful, amazing, life-changing advice that changes your life. Oh my gosh, what a jaw-dropping experience that y'all are about to go on. Gird your loin. Jaw-dropping, and maybe even panty-dropping. do you know something i don't know okay we just are that exciting no we really are are your nipples hard right now maybe we just say your nipples are hard your nipples will get hard and you're like i'm at work please don't do this to me um well if you are brand new here we are

megan and melissa and um we give advice and you might be wondering how we're qualified to give such life-changing amazing earth-shattering world rocking advice and to that i would say keep your head down don't ask questions no what i really would say is what we lack in credentials we make up for in opinions but the answer also is is because we said so like yeah why are you why are you so up in my business and we've been doing this strong since 2017 do you mean to tell me that you are doubting women during women's history month right and right off the end of february this is sounding this is sounding like a you problem right right right right right right we're just here existing working and it seems like you can't let a woman you can't let women

be talented so um yeah diana posted on uh our instagram in response to the post that you recently made about um health care stuff and she said happy international women's day to everyone privileged to have been in the same room as a woman and i like that a lot and to that i say amen the fact that all of my mobile games are now themed women's history month yes it's fucking crazy to me yes it's like so fuck they're like do you like to buy a women's history pack so you can get this sticker to make your outfit for your care like i'm like how about you just give all women that are playing a whole bunch of free stuff how about that women want to give us your money to commemorate you being a lady and i'm like what like it's so fucking weird

so fucking weird yeah but i do feel like monopoly very progressive and even though this is a game about it's also a critique on capitalism it is it's a critique on capitalism but like in every different board city that you go to there's usually a pride flag somewhere hidden in amongst the stuff there was also an entire board that was just gay and i was like and i was so sad because i i was it was at that point where you've got you had so many yeah and i go i don't even get to hang out here and i love that it's a little west hollywood i was like i'm loving this san francisco was also very gay gay very gay and then they do a lot of um like uh ice creamy pastel ones which are all just trans flag colors and i was like i'm loving this um i always end up being like stuck

on the ugliest levels and i'm like this is not fair like i'm you can't go back and just look at it if you look at the map yeah but i don't i don't look in the past i'm always i'm always moving forward on that grind it's what i do hey it's what i do i just took money from you rent money oh okay matz and i this is how you know it's a true sign of a healthy relationship we will text each other before we heist each other's banks to be like spend all your money because you still heist even if they don't have any money and we do that um except because he's been traveling for work I give him so much less time so I say Motz will literally call me or text me saying hey heads up you're my next bank heist to spend your money when I land on it I will text

him and say you're my heist I'm in your bank right now you have five minutes and then no joke 15 seconds pass and I say too late Rob and he's like I'm in a meeting and I was like well he's like why are you even asking i was like i'm just it's a courtesy yeah i'm just not honoring giving him any fucking time yeah to do it but that's okay are you rolling yep you just came up on my shutdown i'll switch an opponent to a random person thank you thank you if you guys want to play monopoly with us head on over to our patreon because we trade cards we uh all play with each other right now we're in a partner event and I have to say I got my partner invitation requests and when I see Soraya and Mary there I go oh my god you mean

I'm a desirable person to partner up with and I had an open spot which I requested for Mott's because I'm like I will just tell him just do all of your roles on this like just just focus on ours anyone else's is fine because he and I completed it so quick last time but then what pops up in my inbox request from charity and i said fuck you mods throwing you to the bat i'm getting my girl on airplane mode did you not see the message she sent us oh she's dm'd us and said can i partner with you oh my god i didn't see that but charity just know i i had saved that spot i had requested mods no he's kicked to the curb that bitch wants to partner with me too fucking late well you should check your messages because it's in the group message that we have on instagram and uh she

she explains something i i'm a casual player so i don't know all the intricacies of what things mean i'm just here you know rolling and and and going but she has some strategy for what she's doing oh and we'll check that out expeditiously and so i don't know what she's talking i just said i don't know what you're talking about but whatever i'm here for it charity and i both do a lot of the strategy play um except charity has the leg up in the fact that she can do math and so she's able to do things that i could only hope and dream to do yeah so i will check that out that the strategy's been good we had a strategy on the last one not the partner one but one where i was like i think i'm on the right side for the peggy drop and she goes i'm i'm left

side and i was like really and then i discovered then i think everyone it's like split 50 50 of people like their luck is on either side so if that didn't interest you in playing i don't know what will it's a great time every day is a good day and scopely i know you don't need the press no we would love to partner with you love to partner i also play uh marvel strike force that y'all have as well you're part of the scopely family at this point i'm part of the scopely family anyways i guess we should explain how you participate in this podcast um you can leave us a voicemail at 310-694-0976 and you can also send us an audio message at meganpodcasts at gmail.com or you can submit an email to meganpodcasts at gmail.com or you can send us a dm on instagram

by megan and melissa right nope just megan just megan and melissa i'm so sorry everyone we've changed it i've changed it so many times and this is the one that we wanted and for some reason it's the one i can't fucking remember it's gonna be like that way for a long time we actually got what we wanted and now i'm like i can't even remember um so yeah we listen to your voicemails or your voice notes or read the predicament that is happening in your life and then we give you advice to the best of our ability but we need you to give us wonderful voicemails voice memos and dm so we can give you the best advice so make sure that you are 18 or over have your parents permission we do ask that you include your age in it as well as your pronouns if you would like

but if it's about if the story involves somebody else or multiple people please give them like fake names we obviously will not use your real name as well but include their ages and if it's about a relationship how long you've been together um if there's like a very important backstory that like if it's about you having beef with someone and like what's happening now is like kind of inconsequential but you're like but it's because we have like a history of beef you have to give us like a tldr like give us a rundown don't just tell us we have a history of beef we want to get um really good uh paint paint a picture paint a character for us we need to hear it because we can't give the correct advice and we want to be on your side like without a doubt like our i would

love always to be on your side um but we do give tough love because sometimes the best thing you can do and the thing that really shows you're on someone's side is tell them if they're being wrong so if that happens it might happen to you so make sure you give us all the information so we're not misjudging the circumstance of the situation but also let us know if you're sensitive because we'll phrase it differently be kind and yeah and again if you have extra time you don't need to include your zodiac sign um but i i always would like if you have extra time include who would play them in a movie if we're blowing up our life for some dude tell me he looks like maluma when someone did that i said say less okay sure that's fine but if you say i'm blowing up my life

for the bad bunny look-alike from the jayla movie i then i will have i'll have questions i'll have stipulations um did you start watching the um documentary no i was watching um it's really good question what was i watching i literally asked you in the last episode what have you been watching you said nothing no i know it's months isn't here i think it was a podcast okay it's probably trixie and katya okay because you're actually correct that's what i was watching and i was like what was i watching because to me i'm like it's just like hey yeah with you like i'm like it's so a part of my day that i forget that i'm like oh i actually don't know those bitches that wasn't a conversation

i had with a friend you're right no that's exactly what i was watching and i watched um katya's uh um she's got a like podcast show with grinder and as somebody who used to be a part of the grinder family by proxy i always love to see what they're doing with social the amount of grinder merch i have grinder pop sockets all of it just grinder pop socket together as a phrase is wild no and that's why grinder making pop sockets was a great choice shall we get into the advice let's do it hi megan and melissa i am 23 years old and i have been with my boyfriend for almost two years um it's probably important for you to know that I have an avoidant attachment style and some definite prominent avoidant

tendencies. However, they are really part of my identity and my interactions and relationships and I really don't see a problem with them. So an example of this is I am really someone who dates to date and doesn't date to marry. But what that means to me is that I am fine having multiple long-term relationships. All of my relationships have been like three years or so. But I'm not going to marry the person. And I usually tell my partners this before we begin dating. So, my current boyfriend knew this. I said, I am not someone that dates to marry, and he said that he was. I said, well, one of us is going to have to change our minds. Anyways, we've been together for two years, and recently he brought up the idea of moving

in together and it's something that he really really wants to do and he is also someone who wants to get married and wants to have children and on a kind of traditional timeline whereas I am fine being probably never married and not having kids and if I were I think I would want to get married in like my 40s um I don't want to get married early um but ever since he's brought this up and I acted really weird about it um I felt myself pulling away because planning for the future is just a really big um avoidance thing for me a trigger I'm also seeing a new male therapist who seems to think that me not wanting to move in is an avoidant tendency, which sure, maybe it is. I don't see a problem with that. I don't think that I have to move in

with a partner, especially when I know that it will probably be the end of our relationship because I've worked so much healthier with a lot of distance between us. Let me know what you think. thank you so much for listening to my call thank you um i don't know how much like research that you've done into attachment styles but uh as someone who has an avoided attachment style as well it is like not i don't know like it's something that like i like my identity is rooted in in a way that i view as like healthy or whatever like i i do think of all i mean this is the only attachment style like i've ever really had and so there are parts that like i still have this attachment style and it will show up in like

friendships and like my everyday life and like who i am as a person in the sense of like um there's a lot of overlap with being avoidant and having adhd like or being like neurodivergent Like there's some overlap there. So, but I wouldn't be like, oh, that that's a part of like who I am in a way that is, um, constructive, uh, because you don't have to want to settle down with someone. um but then that's like a choice that you're making not a I'm running away I'm avoiding this because of x y and z because putting the work into like your attachment styles is just super important because it's about having like healthy relationships so I would like separate the two for you um because if you're cool with this being your attachment style um having a being avoidant like you're not going to be happy in any like in like friendships or

whatever it is and like again like it still comes up I still deal with it all the time like it's still all that but I don't view that as something that it's just like oh it's the way that I am because I don't like want I it gets better and like it will change and it goes through these like ebbs and flows um but not wanting to be on a timeline or like not wanting to like do x y and z you're allowed to just not want that and not have that because of it's like, you're an avoidant person. Like if you don't want to change that, it might not be, it might be hand in hand that you have an avoidant attachment style. And also like, you don't really want to get married. Like those things can both coexist. Um, but I think if you frame it in the way of being cool with

his attachment style, I would really look at like the point of view of people who've experienced relationships with people with avoidant, with avoidant attachment styles. I recently got on a separate like that. And I was like, Oh, that's horrible. Like that is really awful to be on the other side of that. And like what that feels like. And you might read that and be like, I resonated with it because I was like, there are people I've dated and friendships that I've had or whatever that I'm like, Oh yeah, they could have written this about me. Like that's, and it doesn't make me feel good. Um, but if you look at that and you go, no, that's not how people would talk about me. I think you can recognize that like two things can be true at once. Um, and attachment

styles are something that are usually a response to like your life experience. And for a lot of people like trauma. And so in having healthier relationships and healthier attachment styles, it is healing your trauma. It is like healing things that you've gone through and it's growing and resisting that is like not beneficial for, for you. And I want to say, like, I don't think that you're actually necessarily doing that i just think that you might be combining two things you might be combining a personality trait that you have and like your wants and desires with oh there has to be a psychological explanation for this versus i just don't want to do it right like some people just don't want to get married um and you obviously are one of those people and you're

like maybe in, um, 20 years, then I'll be ready. But like, depending, I, depending on like where you're, you're, you're, you come from where you live, like it might be the norm for people to get married at a certain time. Like there's a timeline and it's, it's like the norm for everybody to like want to get married or people don't necessarily want to get married, but because everybody else is doing it, then it's expected of them. And you are, you may seem like the outlier of that, especially with your therapist. I don't know if like your therapist giving that information was necessarily the right information. I'm no therapist, but I don't know if that's necessarily the right information for you if you just don't want to get married. And also I, it was just kind

of like, you're like, I've only been in like long-term relationships and you're 23. So I'm just curious how many long-term relationships have you been in? And even like the person that you were dating before this, like marriage was already being talked about if you had made it known that you weren't dating to get married. So that was somebody you were with when you were like 21. And how long were you with that person? So, um, it might be like the situation and people that you're around that are influencing you to pressure you to get married. And it just might not be for you. And that's okay. And I think that, you know, just hearing from other people that don't want to get married, it might help you with that. Maybe finding a community online or elsewhere

of people that aren't necessarily in the area that you're in. To know that like getting married is a a choice that some people make, and it is not necessarily a choice that you want to make. Yeah, I agree with all that. I do think you need to be a lot more direct in your wording, because I think if the other person called in and like, swap, let's say like, some girl called in like, oh, the guy I'm dating, we've been dating for two years, I want to live with him. And he said, I date to date, I don't date to marry. And it's like, well, I do want to get married. It's like well one of us is gonna have to change our minds I would go that's kind of a dick thing to say like that's kind of an asshole thing to say because I it's kind of um it's pushing off the

blame and the expectations of you so it's like well when I disappoint you you've already I've already given you kind of like a fair warning and that's not fair to either of you because yeah it he doesn't have he's not going to give you what you want either yeah it should be a deal breaker up top if you're with somebody and you go on a date and they said I'm dating to get married then that should be it that should not be somebody you should be with yeah and i also don't think the phrasing like i'm not dating to marry is the way to say that i don't want to get married because those don't mean the same thing um usually and it depends again like like you said location really matters with how like people have phrasing like hooking up means sex where i grew up a lot of

people hooking up means kissing like there are different terms that have different meanings where you are but um saying that like I'm not dating to marry is like I'm having fun while I'm dating like I'm not looking to get married in the next year um I'm having fun and if I find someone amazing great but I'm not like oh my clock is ticking I need to find a husband tomorrow like people I know will use that phrasing and they want to get married and they want to have kids like it's not that. So I do think being upfront and saying like, I just want to let you know before we like go out or anything like that, that I am not interested in getting married and I'm not interested in having kids. Um, I have done like long-term relationships before. And then I would

say like, I would totally see myself with a partner for like 20 years, like saying what you, what you want and like what you expect of, of that. But I think the phrasing is opening up like, well one of us is going to have to change our like oh god that's and I think for you you were like well I'm not going to change my mind and he's like well I'm not going to change my mind but when you throw that out there and it's like well I gave him a warning caution to the wind you gave him like a challenge like you gave him something that it's like if I'm good enough maybe she'll change her mind and I don't know that you were actively trying to change his mind but he probably heard that and was like okay and yes both people are responsible for that but I do think I I do I think

when you're not clear and concise and decisive in your language at least for me like I need people to be very direct like I'm not always great like reading in between the lines um I think you're doing both of you such a huge disservice and if living together is also a deal breaker for you you also need to add that in you also need to say that because like not wanting to get married totally cool totally fine but for a lot of people that and like not wanting to have kids totally cool totally fine not wanting to get married doesn't mean to someone that oh that person doesn't want to have kids and then not wanting to have kids doesn't mean that that person doesn't want to get married and then not wanting to get married or have kids doesn't also

mean oh I never want to live with someone so like you have to be super you have to be really direct with that with that language um because people aren't mind readers and I think it is on it might feel frustrating because like well why do I have to say all this when other people should say that that's what they want like he like something very traditional like unfortunately like we relationships have like a very clear trajectory in like a heteronormative way they're like that like a lot of the time specifically women have to say oh I don't want to have kids because we're just everyone just assumes you want to have kids you're going to have kids um and I think if you do not take it upon yourself to be like this is what I want and this is what I'm looking for and

it's actually a deal breaker if this is not also what you're looking for not only do I think like you're hurting other people I I think you're you're hurting yourself and I think it becomes if this is attached to your your attachment style not just your personality and what you want um And I do think it's, I don't think that's healthy. Like, I don't think it's healthy for you to be, and I've done this where you put yourself in situations where it's not going to work and you know, it's not going to work. And then you wait for it to not work. And then it doesn't work.

And you're like, see, I told you it didn't work. And it's like, okay, well, at least for me, I'm like, bitch, you picked that. You picked that thing that didn't work that you knew wouldn't work. So then when it didn't work, you could just, you could feel shitty about it. Like it was, it was avoidable in that sense. There's a lot of like hurt we can't avoid. And I think, um, and there's a lot of hurt we can't avoid like hurting other people. But I think when there are ways that we can, I do think like it's our duty to, um, protect

ourselves and other people, like their feelings and like their wellbeing in this kind of instance. And I don't think you're, I don't think you're being like truthful with yourself either. Not saying that you want to get married or whatever, but like, I, if that's what you want. And so like, I wouldn't water that down to other people to make it more palatable or to like expand your dating pool. I think you'll be missing out on someone who wants the exact same thing that you do. All right. Let's take a break.

And we are back from a break. Hey, Megan and Melissa. I am 19 and use she, her pronouns. Let's get into this. So I am currently at college in my hometown and still living at home. It is my freshman year. I am working slash paying my way through school, so I decided to live at home. Big mistake.

I'm feeling so smothered by my parents. These should be fun times and partying, but my parents still think I should be home at certain times when I go out. They question my whereabouts and I feel like I can't just let my hair down like most kids my age. My dilemma is money. My parents are paying half my tuition and I am paying the other half. My worries are if I take on more hours, I won't have time for studying, which is what is most important to me. I am not taking out loans because I am looking to the future. But if I did, I would be able to afford an apartment.

Cost of living isn't that high where I live. I'm not sure what to do. My parents don't really mind me moving out or taking out loans is my personal preference. What would you suggest? Unfortunately, you have no say in that household because you aren't paying any bills. If you're not paying for anything, maybe maybe, you know, if you want to feel some type of freedom from them, offer to pay a bill or something and in exchange for your freedom. But at this point, you want to save money.

So you have to weigh the options here. Do you want to have the life like other college students are having that you want? Or do you want to be more financially responsible and be at home and have to live under your parents' rules? I took option where I took out loans and went to school. And I have a lot of student debt, but I will say I'm better for my mental health because of it. because I did not want to stay at home. I think it's just a choice you have to weigh, which is more important to you. You said that setting up your financial future is more important for you. So then you just have to suck it up and let it be what it is. And then after you

graduate from college, you still have so much time to spread your wings. You can still do that later if you want. Or I would say maybe look into internships that you can do during the summertime time that are not in the area that you live in. And then and they'll usually pay for your living wherever you go. So maybe, you know, do what you have to do during the school year and then find an internship elsewhere. Or another option is try to find some scholarships that will help pay cover your cost of living. Yeah. I think the two most important questions I would have is what is your major and what is your family financial situation? Because if you have a safety net of like you have grandparents in the picture or you have a trust that like, you know, maybe it's not

like what you would consider a gossip girl trust fund, but like you have money that is yours in the bank that you can cash out in, I don't know, 20 years or something like that. Like what is your safety net here and what is your major um because the return on investment is important because sometimes depending on what you're majoring in uh undergrad is actually the the time you will have the most money and you will get poorer and poorer and poorer and taking out more and more loans so I would just ask yourself those questions first like are you wanting to go to grad school like is this something that like when you is this a degree that is going to take you a really long time to make a lot of money like what is the salary cap of this degree and like what what job

that you want to have in the future so I would ask yourself like those questions um and then if it's like you know it's comfortable but it's not like if you're going for like an like an arts degree or anything like that like figure out how much loans you would have to take out and then think about like, okay, what do you want to do after school? Like, do you want to, are you going to save money and live at home and then like make money to move somewhere else? Like how, think of those things there that like loans are always going to be there. Like there's, especially when you get out of college, like you're always going to need money. And, um, I think college is a really great time to be, uh, like I always like say a lot of the time, not for everybody. Um, it's kind

of like a half adult like you've got one foot in the door and then the other like you still have the structure of school which is familiar from like adolescence but like you've got some more freedom and those things jumping into like full freedom is really scary and it's a hell of a lot of responsibility and it is inevitable so it's just a matter of like do you want to get there earlier and quicker and spend more time there or do you want to wait a little bit there and I think your mental health is super important and so I would say look into being an RA like that's like you that you subs i don't even think you pay for housing at all i think at my school like you got free housing and then you also were paid for certain hours that you had to work x y and z

um and then i would also say like look into studying abroad like look into those kinds of things i think i would also make sure that crunch the numbers like i'm not a numbers person but like crunch the numbers because you like you said you have to weigh all of the options in the sense of like school is the most academics are the most important to you and your grades are the most important to you so like how much are the loans that you would have to take out and how much with that way on your mental health and then if you have to pay paying those off in a timely manner that makes you feel safe and comfortable how much are you going to have to work and then how much time do you then have for the social life there so like I agree with you that I would I would have a

negotiation with your parents and I would sit down especially because you said they're totally cool you moving out. To me, I do think that if they're like fine with you moving out, um, I, I think they might be receptive to a negotiation of being like, so I'm going to pay this. I'm going to pay this. I'm gonna do this. I'm going to cook dinner X this many times a week. I'm going to do these things that make it so it doesn't just feel like I'm a teenager living at home. So like give yourself more responsibility. I think it'll help you feel more independent. And in return, I will be going out on these nights of the week or X amount of nights and I will and like if it's about like a safety thing I don't know where you live it's like you can have my location on for these these when

I'm going out I will write down who I'm with I'll tell like I'll give you some of that information so like you don't feel like they don't feel like they're totally in the dark because I will say that's a huge part that I know it's the independence that you crave and you want but if I had a friend who were in college together and I don't see her, I could name at least 15 times I've seen her in the last like two days, who I've seen her with, what like all of those things, who she was wearing, what her friends clothes were, all of that stuff. Your parents don't have that. Like they don't have that familiarity with like the location and the people and all of that. So like there's stress that comes there. So like acknowledging that and recognizing that it's not always people

wanting to stifle you and give them some like safety net, but like really break it all down in that way and I would try that first before you cost out the loan aspect of it and I do think that like having your parents be like annoyed with you um is not always also like the worst thing in the world like if you come home like late like what happens if you say I'm just gonna like stay out late like how about we have a conversation about this like let's let's get down to the bottom this and come to an agreement as opposed to it feels like they're really parenting you the same way they did. And it sounds like you're also kind of taking it the same way that you did. So I think you should assert your independence as well as ask for like, as well as ask for it, like both,

like show that you can handle that and show that you want to take that on. And you might find that like, oh, this is a lot easier than I realized. Like, I think like taking out a loan, I can like come up with a payment plan and I can do that to like what you feel comfortable with. But I don't think loans should be the first option when you have other options. All right. Hello, I graduated in December and finally got my first adult job. I'll be working in a corporate office for the first time. You think I'd be nervous about a new job, right? Nope. I'm actually feeling very confident in my new role. What I am nervous about is making friends. You know, the beginning of Mean Girls when Katie eats in the bathroom. Yeah, I feel like that's going to be me. I know this

don't happen since well i'm an adult and i can always go eat in my car but the anxiety stands i did a couple of internships in college but was usually with someone from school so i didn't have this issue do i introduce myself to new people do i wait for them to introduce themselves to me i have no clue i'm so nervous i'm getting anxious just typing this hopefully there aren't any typos do you have any advice on forming friendships or just meeting people in the workplace happy to hear some don't blame thems on this as well from any fellow listeners who have advice happy to follow up with an update on how making friends goes lol oh almost forgot i'm 23 she her i have reading this for you this stresses me out so please you start you're just kicking it over to

me yeah I need you to start um I'm the thing is is that when I worked in jobs with other people I did not want to hang out with them during my lunch break I would go sleep in my car or I would leave and go eat somewhere else because I did not want to hang out so I am in a different boat like but if that's what you want cool um I uh I I felt like my break should be a break from the people and um I I'm not I'm not here to make friends as as they say um I so how do the people who you made friends with through like work environments because like that's not the air you give off like I want to be your friend so how do people that you end up being like okay you can be my friend like how do they pass that threshold for you I think it's different

though because we don't work in like a corporate type job and so most of the people that I've worked with when it comes to like because we talk we have podcasts where we're talking about personal things and so that it's like force it's a different yeah it's you know each other on a different level than you would in a corporate environment we're not selling cereals like we're not we're talking about personal things and so you kind of become friends because you are sharing things that people would share in a friendship so we I was gonna say so this is my issue with this so like I'm always desperate to make friends I'm always desperate people to like me I treat every interaction like it's a stand-up performance um and I've met like all of my friends through

work and that is because what I do on the podcast is um something that I am incapable of not doing in every day like I just talk to people like I'm friends with them and I think I don't even know if this is like good advice but like I would just figure out like what you your personality type is like like I would even like ask your other friends being like okay when we first became friends like what would you like what would you say is great about like what drew you to me friendship wise or whatever and then figure out who you like and who you're drawn to as a friend and when I was like a little kid my dad used to tell me a story like I would sit at the playground and I would just watch the kids play at first and then I would figure out who I

liked and who I wanted to be friends with and I would point to my dad and I would say them and my dad would walk me over and be like this is Megan and then I would be like hey you can leave now and then I'm like hello and I would be like so over the top but like I've always been like I'm like always an observer like my and I really appreciate when people are like you've done the vetting beforehand of being like I feel like I'm really gonna vibe with these people because then you're just hitting home runs like you you have the they have a personality that you're like oh I really feel like I could mesh with they remind me of a friend or whatever and so they're probably going to be receptive to who you are and how you how you act but I think if you like are like not

super buttoned up and you're like oh I'm going to approach everybody like I should be friends with them and you go to someone who's like super buttoned up and like not like anyone you're ever you've ever been friends with before I think it's unrealistic to expect workplace friendships with people who share no common traits of friends you have outside of work like I think you can have friends that like are like I love when people do like TikToks of being like me and my work bestie and it's like a 20 year old like girl and like a 65 year old old man like yes like maybe your circles wouldn't have crossed naturally but like people will have similar traits or personalities um and uh but I also like I'm I have like such bad social anxiety which for me is like very much

tied to ADHD and like being like too much and like perform and like being on and all that stuff um but like the best things I've ever had is when people are like I would love to be a friend or like hey I have no one to sit with like for lunch like could I come hang out with you um I think people tend to be very uh friendly usually overly friendly in an office when you first start like there's like oh like this kind of a thing um but I I think observing and shooting your shot friendship wise with um people who people who feel like comfortable to you people who feel like people you already know um and I think that even translates to like our job and like what we do like there are certain people who I'm like oh this remind this person reminds me of this person

or this person will like this person because you've got this this and this um but as far as like the workplace corporate you know circle back all of those things yeah please some don't blame them because like I have no idea how I wouldn't be good with that because like I need people to be very direct I would um okay so I'm I'm now putting myself in this position if I actually like wanted to be friends with somebody at in a corporate environment I'm thinking about how like I make friends anyway, if I just like somebody, I will let them know that like, I think they're cool. Um, or, uh, I would go, I think like if it's like a lunch type situation, just walk up to a table of people that like Megan said, feel familiar to you and be like, is the seat taken

and sit down, introduce yourself to people, fill people out. Also don't, don't, don't engage with somebody that in the first week of knowing you they're already giving you like gossip about other people because that means that they'll got that you will open up to them and they'll gossip about you um but yeah i think just introduce yourself to people find out maybe have some like intro question that you have like an icebreaker type question i hate icebreakers but it might be you seem like the person that probably enjoys them um and just ask people ask people questions ask people about the work culture just fill people out in the same way that you fill out actual like non-work people in the same way you would make friends in that way yeah yeah i i think um

you you should be able to tell who's who's friendly and like who's like a like person you can sit with and just know that like those people have also all been new and there have had people who've been new who've done this before so um it's not gonna be like a brand new experience um but yeah I mean like I literally have a specific subtype of person when I'm like in a room where I'm uncomfortable and I don't know people that I automatically gravitate towards it is it is men who look like Kyle and it is communications majors and people who work in like the social media side if they like I can just seek them out and it's not even that I know that those are their professions or I know that that's what they're like but it's just like I can though I can observe

people talking to each other and be like that looks like my friends not talking like that looks like this and even something as simple as like you like it's like someone's outfit just being like oh my gosh like this is that's so cute like I think giving a friendly like uh that to me is like not like an olive branch but like whatever like a a friendship version of that is where i'm going i clock this person doesn't just isn't just trying to be polite workplace friends like this person like wants you to know me or like oh like where are you like oh like you're listening to this like oh i love that song like i love that music i will be like oh you want to be my friend and like that's kind of like disarming for me so i think like making making sure that like what

you're saying is not uh looking like hey i'm looking for a mentor like it doesn't come across like work related but still again professional not inappropriate um to me that's really handy when I can like tell that like that's what we're switching in between that like okay this is a friendship moment like this is what that is I've I've just been talking I just realized like when I talked about when I went to like the penguin random house holiday party I um didn't know I knew one person there no two people there one I'd met in person because they were the person that like, like got me into directing audio books. And then the other one I knew because we have, she's a narrator, but we also have a mutual friend, which we figured out while we

were, we were, I was narrating the book. And so then like, we knew each other from that, but I knew there was, it was probably like a hundred people in there. Those are the only people I knew. They knew a lot of other people because before the pandemic, when you did audio books you would direct in the same place I started the week when everything shut down I never met anybody and I didn't know what most people look like anyway so I would I was just going around introducing myself to people and figuring and figuring things out there was one person that I um realized like we had worked on an audio book together and like I thought we vibed over like the audio book been like in real life we didn't really vibe and I just moved on like

it wasn't it wasn't that big of a deal like that's not somebody that you know I would be friends with they were fine but they're just not somebody I would be friends with then I just I met a lot of people that I never even worked with and like we became friends on Instagram and stuff so like I think just talking to people just talk move around talk I mean truthfully what I would do and like I don't I don't want to give you this advice because if you if this is not in your instinct do not do it because I would not say that this is um a tip or a trick I would say this is this is a brain thing um I have such a need to uh know every room that I'm walking into and like know the circumstance situation like I'm someone who like looks at a restaurant I have to look at

the menu I have to look at parking I have to do a google maps like street view walking what it's gonna look like where I'm gonna put all and I have to get there early and usually I'll do a drive-by like I used to have to go to school before like that and then like the week before school even started to like walk around to like make sure I knew where my classrooms were and all of that kind of thing because I get overwhelmed very easily um I would also me don't saying not saying for you to this I would look up who I'm working with I would look them up on LinkedIn and I would look them up on Instagram and look up anybody every time all the time but I'm always looking people up I'm I'm gonna and I'm judging a book by its cover I'm looking at where this person went

to school I'm looking at like what extracurriculars that they did and I'm looking at their vibe check I'm looking if we have mutual friends I'm looking at their interests and then I'm being like okay cool this is who I'm this is who I'm probably going to be friends with like this is who I'm going to this is who I'm going to like reach out to or like see that this person started more recently than I did um so I I think that like that might if that feels unnatural to you don't don't do that um it would be unnatural for me to not do that like I do that even before I meet new people I will like ask mods like if it's like a mutual friend I'll be like so like what do they do where do they go to school and then i'll ask them all of those questions but like i i want to

know those things so i don't know like i i just like to be prepared like i like i want to know what not to ask about i want to know you know all of those kinds of things um and it makes me feel better equipped but if that's not in your instinct don't do it but if it is your instinct i don't think that there's anything wrong with that yep all right well we're gonna take another break time for another call oh it is a call i was looking as if i was going to read it hey megan and melissa love the podcast i would really just like your feedback on dealing with a racist boss. So I've been dealing with this racist boss for a while now. I put in my notice to leave. But before that, I tried to go to HR and they basically told me I didn't have

enough evidence, I guess, to prove what's going on. And she's basically been, since I put in my resignation, she's been making my life a living hell. I would just love to know, like, when someone's being really petty with you you know what I mean and you're like trying to rise above it and it's so hard um what's a way that you can like kill them with kindness but also let them know not to like fuck with you does that make sense um I have about two weeks left so I would love some feedback on this um yeah and HR makes it really hard and I know that HR is supposed to protective of our rights, right? So it's just been really difficult. And discrimination at work, I feel like I keep getting the same runaround where it's like very hard to prove that this

is happening, you know? I would love some feedback. I hope you guys have a great day. Thank you. Bye. HR, I want everyone to cement this in your brain. HR is there to protect the company, not you. HR is there to protect the company, not you. So unless you have actual evidence, they're just going to sweep it under the rug because they don't care about you. They care about the company. You didn't give any specific examples of how the boss has been racist. That might be part of the problem. You need to have like specific examples. Anytime any incident happens write it down make note give a time the day what exactly happened who was around at the time um and like if you did anything proactive or you know to say anything to combat

what they said you say that you're trying to like kill them with kindness type of thing where you're being nice um maybe that is not the the right move because you're leaving you have nothing to lose if they're making your life a living hell bitch i'm satan right why not bring them with you like yeah you literally have nothing to lose do you have another job lined up if you have another job job lined up i would ask them if i could go ahead and start um because giving two weeks notice is a courtesy it's not something that's required unless you have some type of contract so like if you can start your other job early go for it um but why be nice when you can be nasty yeah and i would also read your contract because um i don't

think they're going to give you a like a glowing reference um but if you already have a job it doesn't matter but i was gonna say though um i think that the killing with kindness is again read your contracts usually after you leave there'll be like non-disparaging ones um not so much while you're there uh that's not so much that so like i think telling your co-workers being like your boss walks into the room and be like oh my god you were just telling me that super racist thing you said me earlier what was that again and like say it in front of other people who work there tell your co-workers what your boss is doing like tell your co-workers that hr is not protecting you and again like this is with you have another job lined up but a lot of the time

you can you you can't fucking say a word after you're gone but like while you're there what are they gonna do fire you yeah right then you're already fired but now you have and if you get fired then guess what you can collect unemployment yeah so i i agree in the whole sense of like you do not need to kill them with kindness because you're not even being you're not being met with that like i think it's kill them with accountability and it's not like a oh like closed door hush talk we actually don't have any evidence of this and we're gonna make you feel really like small and like stupid for this so like you feel like you're complaining about nothing and you don't feel like you have any safe people here so you keep your mouth shut instead what you can do

then is make a fucking fuss tell your co-workers talk about it loudly in front of other people Talk about it when your boss walks in the room, get it written in email, follow up in the emails, like make it so that make it to the environment that they have created, that they've made you exist in, that they have to fucking exist in that. Like, I, I think that's, that's the response. Um, and I also would, because you also didn't include any examples, I would, I would wonder, did you your conversation with hr and saying that you don't they said you don't have significance you don't have like significant evidence of this um have you gotten a other perspective on it

because like they can also just be telling you that and you do so i there are like lots of i'm sure that you could even probably call the aclu and they could like connect you to like a local organization just to even be like hey can i run this bot like does this sound right like does this sound like there's not enough evidence for this or is it like company to company um because I think that you also I hope hearing from us is validating but I also think it might be really validating for you to hear from someone in a professional environment in your area to be like yeah no that's not like that's not okay they should be in trouble for that and then also like there are different places whether it's like glass door writing reviews for like your company that

you worked for but um you know I think sharing depending on the circumstance I always think people get very afraid of local news of stories going around of those kinds of things or like warning people uh don't work here they like this is what's happening x y and z um but I think like they've made this such a hell for you that I think you're also probably starting to like your instinct right now is to kill them with kindness when you haven't been met with you've been met with like racism and like total disrespect that uh that can be so isolating that you then start to question all of that so i would like i would let the rage happen and not internalize this and take this with you to your next job because like this is on them not you whatsoever and you

don't have to be a consummate professional when someone's being racist correct and i'm sorry this is just i'm mad for you this is one of those things where people are like don't don't you know don't talk badly about people online and i'm like talk badly about these people online name and shame all right uh now we're going to have a don't blame them what's don't blame them megan oh my god i'm so glad you asked me so don't blame them is where a listener will call in with their own advice pertaining to a call that we had on a previous episode so it could be that they have personal experience with it they've lived it or they watch someone close to them live it or they have it's in their job field their education field or they just have an opinion that um they

would like to share that they think might be helpful all right well we had one where someone, um, was talking about splitting chores with their, uh, partner and the dude like wasn't splitting chores, even though that the, um, caller or writer, I don't remember if it's a caller or writer, um, works from home and goes to school. And then also was expected to do all the household chores. And someone wrote in and said, as a guy, what is scary about this is that I only just got better about doing dishes this year myself and I think their advice was spot on talking about us spot on I had never thought about it but growing up dishes were always done by somebody else though the caller's boyfriend sounds like one of those we ain't wrong we ain't sorry types

if he wants to grow his relationship he needs to be both wrong and sorry wow that's a very good way to put it being wrong and being sorry damn my nipples got hard at that I'm gonna have to tell I that we're I'm putting that in my pocket to use again because there that's a very great way to explain like when someone's like no I get it I'm sorry I'm like or like I'm I'm like you know you're right I'm wrong I'm wrong and then it's like yeah I'm sorry and it's like no I actually do believe that you think you know that you're wrong in this but like I the sorry part like you have to acknowledge both because without both you're right there's no change like there has to be the for lack of a better word like repenting for it acknowledge your sins repent for those sins

very good very good that actually came off someone making um a comment on a patreon video so oh my god what a great promo for our patreon look how many intelligent wonderful gorgeous fantastic people are on our patreon do you want to be friends with them can you not make friends at corporate job just join our patreon you can be friends with them we'll make erica wear a blazer she'll be your new corporate friend who else could be a corporate friend erica's the only one to me that has like a corp like because yeah you know who else could be who's corporatey we have a lot of teachers we have a lot of um health care professionals yeah but we have a lot of people though who would say like call me by my first name

you know who else who else i feel like everybody else has mary will wear a blazer but it will be totally improv it will just be caught mary will cosplay um join our patreon it's like it's so much fun it's wonderful it's fantastic and i recommend to anybody who is moving has a new job or is it going through a friendship transition or is um you know immunocompromised and or also just cognizant and aware of the um absolute boom in covid with a constant uptick who wants to have friends and social interactions in a safe way yeah perfect perfectly said it's wonderful i so badly want to make a joke about but they're they're new and they already told us about the thing that they're worried about when they said the thing and they were like i'm so worried everyone thought

this and just know if you're listening i really want to make a joke about that i'm not going to because i know you're worried about it but just know that the reason why i want to make a joke about it is because i think it's so funny and not in like i'm laughing at the fact that you were worried about it but just like you you so had nothing to worry about i told moss that too and he was like what and i was like yeah and you had to be there whatever maybe if he paid to be on our patreon he would get the joke he won't all right well if you want to participate all the information is down in the show notes ttyl Don't Blame Me is a production by me, Megan Rinks.

And me, Melissa Demonts, plus Diamond Imprint Productions. Post-production sound and editing by Coco Lorenz. Production assistance by Melanie D. Watson. And music by Giacomo Picasso and Ryan Hunter.