Don't Blame Me! - "Good Guys" Coming Off Wrong

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Meghan and Melisa have a rousing conversation about Dora The Explorer, Gracie's Corner, Blippi and Freaky Friday before giving advice on Meghan and Melisa give advice on: Being more invested in a friendship than your friend is Boyfriend making excuses for his friends that use homophobic slurs A fuckboy claiming you gave him chlamydia Your 21 year old friend hanging out with a 35 years man Don't Blame Them: Traveling to Hawaii and being frustrated with your boyfriend who has a fear of flying, plus a Write-In Update from the original caller Subscribe to our new show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/but-am-i-wrong/id1591757891 Buy our merch: https://store.dftba.com/collections/don-t-blame-me Follow Us! @meghanrienks www.instagram.com/meghanrienks https://twitter.com/meghanrienks @sheisnotmelissa www.instagram.com/sheisnotmelissa https://twitter.com/sheisnotmelissa @by.meghan.and.melisa https://www.instagram.com/by.meghan.and.melisa Affordable Therapy By State (Curated by Crissy Milazzo): www.tinyurl.com/y64kwdnf Need Advice? www.dontblameme.show Domestic Listeners Call: [phone] International Listeners Send a Voice Memo To: [e-mail] … with as much detail as possible under 3 minutes! WeI'll do our best to share our wonderful words of wisdom. If you're under 18, please get your parent's permission. Advice is for entertainment purposes only, so you can't blame us if we screw up your life. I kid! Our advice IS AMAZING. Want to WATCH this episode as well? Become a patron! https://www.patreon.com/dontblameme Join the Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/dbmsecretgroup Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/join/dontblameme Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit ancestry.ca for details. Terms apply. hello everybody and welcome to another episode of don't blame me welcome or welcome back or fuck off choose your poison it's a choose your own adventure swipe or no swiping i always think of dora the explorer as a choose your own adventure but it's actually the exact opposite it like dora has chosen everything for you i remember as a kid i would like the or no the kids i would babysit would watch it and i used to like say like when dora's like where is this and i would say like the wrong thing and they were like no and then dora would make then they would say the right thing and then dora be like yeah like see we're right and i'm looking at me like

you idiots you don't even know this is already made she's not responding to you i wouldn't say that's the genius behind torah it is i like it oh i forgot to tell you i don't know if your sisters already know about this but i saw this on a tiktok and i don't know if any of the kids are in the like i mean first of all i love baby shark baby shark's a bop like big fan i already i already know what you're gonna say gracie's corner holy mocks and i if we're like spotify gracie's corner are like bumping up like great so good oh yeah melanie she's the only one that has a kid that yeah would fall into the right age group with so abrielle was very into coco melon and i was like melanie free yourself get on to gracie's corner and it took her a few days and then she finally

did and she was like these are bops like i'm excited to listen to this and i said i tried to bring you over to this side a long time ago well three days before but you wasted your time bops like just turning out bops and i think about it's like must have how adults felt i got the dance into oh yeah it must have been how adults felt listening to dragon tales versus like the proud family like one of these things is a musical genius and the other one is a run-of-the-mill children's television right like i was just so impressed and i desperately need to get our nephew on it so we can get him off the fucking blippy train oh yeah hate like i have matt i mean first of all anyone if you want to read some weird shit go to the blippy wikipedia to like

know the blippy controversy blippy had this one random fucking controversial okay i'll just say blippy allegedly i don't think it's alleged i'm pretty sure it's all proven but it was on wikipedia which we know is a very credible source to be fair it actually is now so it used to not be but now it is yeah but blippy like i think like right when he started his channel or like right before he like tried a different venue like to see what would kick off and it was like just like poop joke slash fetish videos and so like it's all these like really disgusting like not funny videos of like some other really gross stuff and i think blippy's been franchised essentially i think that's exactly what actually happened but like you can go to a blippy concert

and it's just like some fucker dressed quote-unquote as blippy it's not even blippy and if you want blippy's youtube channel blippy was on like paternity leave or something which great for blippy very pro paternity leave you just brought someone else dressed as blippy like i was up in arms about like redo like the new steve but at least like we were assimilated into that we were introduced it wasn't just one day like it's not like every day there was like a new Steve Varian just like running around on our tv like getting the mail no like they had some respect but like no Blippi is just like we're swapping in whoever I don't like him as a soap opera fanatic uh this just is up my alley because it happens all the time so one day it'll be like in the role of

whoever is being played by whoever but they say that yeah they do they don't say that on blippy and also like you go see blippy in concert it's not the blippy like who are you gonna see you can hire a blippy for your birthday party you can't hire ariel for your birthday party you can hire like a mermaid princess who dresses somewhat like ariel but like they're not claiming to be ariel but everyone's like yeah i'm blippy and it's like well the real bit blippy please stand up Blippi is whoever you want Blippi to be. Well, I don't like Blippi in general, and there's too many of them running around. Well, this is Don't Blame Me.

We're an advice podcast. Clearly, clearly, as you can tell, I guess we should introduce ourselves. Hi, my name is Megan, and I am a Leo sun. I am an Aquarius rising, and I'm a Pisces moon. Melissa, would you like me to pull up your birth chart for you again? my name's melissa diamond monts and i am an aquarius sun a bad moon and a whatever the other one is bitch i'm a bitch rising in that's what it is okay house what house in the house of darion wow deep cut deep cut deep cut okay so yeah we're gonna give wonderful

advice life-changing amazing advice you might be wondering how are these two absolute visions which by the way if you want to see how stunning and amazing we are if you just want to support the show head on over to the patreon you can watch the video for a dollar a month or you can subscribe to our patreon and pledge five dollars a month we do two live streams a month how many times can i say month we have a great time it's very fun and you can also see the zit that i have that melissa tried to flick off of her computer screen because she thought that there was a spot and i was like nope that's on my face don't worry about it yep i also have one too right in the middle my that's not in the middle i take it back i don't want to falsely give them assumptions about

what's going on i have one that's in my on my head oh like last time when i said we do all of the videos nude and then i amended it till we do them with no bras on which is correct and rarely underwear yeah don't have on any now meaning i don't got any underwear on or any bra on so So head on over to Patreon and then use your imagination. So yeah, you might be wondering how we are qualified to give this amazing advice and it's we're not and we're going to do it anyway, because who better to give you advice than to people who just have a lot of opinions. The answer is a therapist, but sometimes therapists, they want you to get that information

yourself, or maybe you want to talk to your friends and your friends are going to sugarcoat it for you. we're the people that you call when you're like maybe my friends are lying to me i don't feel like anyone's being honest with me like i need you to be straight up or maybe i don't want to tell my friends or maybe i just need permission from people who are like my peers to uh do something like this so that's what we're here for but again it's like you if it's like a i don't know if it's like a real like a question it's advice okay but like if you need like a fire department like call a fire department anyways i'm very tired you said a lot of things there

things that i'm not sure i followed you but i'm here for the ride you know what that's all i can ask for anybody who's in my life i don't need active participants i need an audience and that's fine anyways what is new with you oh i did find out that the bold and the beautiful has every episode ever made up on their youtube channel oh that's dangerous i haven't seen a soap opera like from day one before this one is like of the soaps that are on this is the newest one like it was started in 1987 1987 so so like the other ones started like in the 50s 60s so they have access because a lot of the old ones they don't even have access because that people were using tape and sending them out and then they would just throw them away because they didn't repeat things

and so they have access to their old tapes and so still a good chunk of the people that were on there in the beginning are still on now and seeing one the plastic surgery i they were unrecognizable i was like i know you've been playing this care i know you've been playing this character from day one but you look absolutely nothing like who's this man yeah i was like and then there's like some other people that i've seen and i was like i know this person i don't know who the hell this is they're on a different soap but like i didn't again the plastic surgery is just wow yeah it's clockable yeah like you can see it i'm like i know the mannerisms i can hear the voice but who the fuck is this yeah but also just like the pacing of the show and seeing how

they got to where they are now um i watched like that soap is it's a half hour so it's only like 20 minutes when it airs so i watched like 15 episodes it was i was like wow this is this was really good like it's really yeah i'm sorry we need to circle back did you so do you mean to tell me that there are other soap operas that are have hour-long spots yeah all the other ones general hospital days of our lives and young and the restless that are on i want to know how much acid and lsd those writers do to be able to constantly be churning out like they're like fucking santa's toy workshop of storylines and the fact i didn't even i assume i like i didn't even cross my mind that they would be hour-long spots like i was like of course they're half hour

because like how the fuck do they keep holy shit every day i'm more impressed every day i'm more and that even makes it harder because of like you memorize it like a play and for actors too and they're like 80 pages like yeah i asked a friend who is on i have friends on three soap operas but i asked one that's on one of the hour that's on one of the hour ones and they're like yeah they're 80 they're 70 to 80 pages and so i was like damn that's a lot when the episodes only come out to be like 34 minutes because of no they're 36 minutes because of all the ad breaks and stuff but yeah they memorize a lot you can always tell on a set like of actors like i can you can always tell who has come from like the soap world not based on like the style of acting

necessarily at all like i think a lot of people think of like oh if you're on a soap you can't it's not like i love my friends who've been on disney channel but like they did have to like kind of either work on things simultaneously while on disney channel or have to unlearn the style but soap it's not like that like you can do anything and but people have this assumption but like you can tell based on how they like literally read the script it's like it's mind blown like normally you're in a hair makeup trailer like you get your sides for the day which if people don't know like your sides are like these small little mini scripts they kind of look like just like kind of they're just very small like half a piece of paper uh size wise

stapled together and it has the scenes you're doing that day it could be half of a scene part of a scene or whatever so normally on like a movie set let's say it's way less pages maybe it's like eight maybe twelve yeah a big page is a big day is like anything over seven is a yeah so like a 12 would be like a lots of not dialogue like that would be like a big exposition one but like eight would be like a big dialogue day but like you'll have four page days you'll have three page days you'll have five page like and then on a tv show you might have like a fine day would be eight to nine pages and a really hard day would be like 14 and then an impossible day would be like 16 17 like so now imagine 80 but the the people who would be on them were all in hair makeup

trailer they would skip you just see their eyes scan one time through put it down and they're good and not once they pick it up ever again and i'm like i'm sorry never call line they're just they know it because on soaps they only get one take they get one maybe two but like they have to move on and so because it moves so fast and so that's why like soaps get like this name about themselves but you have to keep in mind that like they're not they don't even unless they're running lines with their scene partner in their trailer they're not they don't even get a table read they don't get a rehearsal they're just coming in hitting what they have to do and then they're done yep and they never call they never ask for like a i've had soap after actors like see other

actors call back hey can i get a second do we have time do i could i do a second take and they'll be like oh you can do oh yeah no i wouldn't i mean i'm i can do another if you want and i'm just like oh wow it's amazing it's like it's super impressive so now knowing holy fuck i'm so impressed wow soaps well um i'm really happy for you and i i think personally i mean let's not post it online i'm sure there are lots of before and after plastic surgeries but if you come across a fantastic one and you want to slide me the name oh i will let me know made made one that just like i was like oh this is the same person i here i love plastic surgery do whatever the fuck you want but it's fascinating i think it's great it was it's just fascinating how much

granted she was like 20 she was in her early 20s when she started and now she's in her 60s i believe late 50s early 60s i believe and so you know of course aging wise but like she looks great now it's just like doesn't look the same yeah yeah i live for that shit live for it well love that for you thank you I have just gotten back from the wedding my best friend's wedding I went to Sydney's wedding she's married uh where I sat at the table with all of like my friends I mean one of my friends has been there who I've known since like before I was born and the rest I met when I was like 11 and so we were like the OG old school like childhood through adult friends so we were the table who was just sobbing crying the whole time and it is so weird such a different

experience when like because i haven't been to a wedding of someone i'm like really close to and like really close to like their whole family and like watching all that so like it's a very trippy experience but i looked i just have to say i looked so good i looked amazing and like she looked beautiful she looked amazing of course she like stunning bride and um i wore this like floor-length cutout hot pink sequin dress which every time someone which everyone was like oh my god your dress i like word vomited like i had to use approval she loves the dress and they were like okay i wasn't questioning that but i was like i just feel like i needed to like have a post-it on my head that was like please where she says this was okay but it was like crazy to be like

holy shit who said that you're old enough to get married and it's so funny because like our other friend who's there with like her family um Gracie is also engaged and is getting married later this year and I'm also engaged and so like Gracie's parents and Sydney's parents like I feel like it must have been such a trippy thing to like look at these like three kids like and suddenly all three of us are engaged at the same time and like are all there with our partners and like that was just like wow that's so it made me feel like so grown up because I was also seeing the kids there who are younger who like I didn't even recognize who had to come up to me it was like Megan hey and I was like hi and they're like it's so and so like it's this person's kid or

whatever and I was like I'm sorry what like because that age when you see someone when they're like I don't know like 11 or 12 and then suddenly they're in their 20s you're like what the fuck sometimes I think like it's hard to recognize when you yourself are aging when people like oh my gosh like you're so grown up or whatever and now that I'm in that stage where people who are younger than me will like recognize like me and be like and then they have to tell me who they are and it blows my mind it's just so it's so crazy and it makes me be like oh my god wow this is how these other people must have felt with like me when i was younger and like now i'm getting to kind of experience that side of it and i don't know there's something like obviously like women have

this insane pressure about like aging in like the aesthetic sense of it but in like the sentimental sense like I just think it was it's so cool to like see people grow up in a way that like it's like a very exciting thing like it's a privilege to be able to like grow older and then also watch other people grow older like we're not doing it alone or by ourselves and you know there's this notion that there's like a certain age cap where aging no longer becomes cool but I think like focusing on how awesome it is that these like it is cool no matter what age you are but like how I love seeing just people through the years and seeing how they've aged. Right now, for a limited time, everyone's part of the Buick team, even you.

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Oh my God. When people like, especially the young boys who like shoot the fuck up. And I'm like, I'm sorry, when did you get so fucking tall? Or also like, do you know that the majority of like people who are assigned like men at birth, like people who are born with penises

tend to like their trajectory of like height, like they don't stop growing until much later. One of my best friends, Jake, I was like, dude you've like grown two inches in the last like couple years like you've gotten taller and you're 29 like the fuck so crazy so crazy meanwhile i've been the same height since i was 12 same and i like this height and this is a height that works for me yeah no it's a perfect type for you i do sometimes wish i was shorter but then sometimes i'm like but i wouldn't if i woke up in a different body i'd be like what happened you know which i think we all would because that's

freaky friday a fantastic film which which version you and mots hate it it's not well i mean there's several versions of it but my my biggest gripe is it's weird because like i have to go to the bathroom and wipe my mom's cat i didn't think of it that way yeah like mots told me that freaky friday is i want because like we had this whole list of i was like i need you to see movies that have shaped me into who i am we're still working on aquamarine but he was like i'm having a really hard time watching a movie with emma roberts and jojo and if sarah peck's as a fucking mermaid and i'm like it's wonderful but he agreed on freaky friday because he was like love a lindsey lohan movie love jamie lee curtis he just was pacing the whole time in this movie and he goes this

is the scariest movie i've ever seen i was like you've seen like hereditary he goes this is worse there's so many iterations of that movie like i grew up watching like it used to on the disney channel they used to have like they used to play the like maybe 70s version of it all the time and it's the same movie essentially but i just i just can't get over the fact that like let's say you have a sexual urge and you're like in your mom's body that's disgusting that's gross that's so gross see that that's a valid point matz's thing comes from the sheer fear of jamie curtis that he his fear is from the sexual predator things that just naturally occur there that we're supposed to be like okay with yeah and he's like lindsey lohan is like such a cunt not

her but like the the like the fact that like she's letting her mom be a sexual predator is like really like he like couldn't he couldn't finish watching it like we're not allowed to talk about it and i think it's i do think it's funny that he says it's the scariest most stressful movie he's ever seen and he loves horror movies but he would rather watch those you'd rather watch watch jamie lee curtis and halloween as opposed to freaky friday yes yes and that's i think part of the reason herself the scrum kwan activia anyways which is why she was in scream queens think about it i thought okay my brain went to like because of the activia couch and i don't know from the she was she's the scream queen she still is they're still making those halloween yeah

I didn't learn that until after Scream Queens, which, by the way, I am, like, I don't watch any of other Ryan Murphy's shows, just, like, not usually my thing, because, like, scary stuff freaks me out, as it's intended. But Scrum Quants, also known as Scream Queens, is, like...

It's perfect. It's perfect in the fact that, like, we as a society let that and Bridget Mendler's music career just pass us by and not wreck... Bridget Mendler. You need to listen to it, because you will pop...

bops she was just releasing bop after bop after bop and we just took it as yeah another girl with a music career and no like it was a cultural reset and we have failed her and that was the day that i realized that we as a society we were i don't know if we could be saved but i need her music career to come back it's so good okay our music really crosses yes but like you like taylor swift love story and that's not that's country this isn't country but that same sort of like i don't know what's it have you seen josie the pussycat girls pussycats i don't know why it's nicole scherzinger there with her it's just josie the pussycat so you know when they have that like addictive thing in the music or whatever that's what her music is like like there's msg in it

like i don't know what to tell you like there's just something okay let's get into the episode before we do that i have to give you the phone number so you can call for an upcoming episode you can leave us a voicemail at 310-694-0976 or international listeners you can send us an audio message at meganpodcast at gmail.com you have three minutes it will literally cut you off so to make best use of your time we suggest that you write everything down that you want to say and make sure you include as much relevant information you have to be 18 and over have your parents permission but like you know if you're 23 your the advice we might give you might be different than if you're 30 or if it's about relationships including how long you've been

together and how old the other person is. If you want to include your pronouns, please feel free to do so. But if you write it down, take your phone out or a timer or any other mechanism for keeping time and time it out. So it's under three minutes and you can practice to make sure of that and you have all the relevant information because the best advice we can give you is when we have best information. So practice a couple of times and then record and who knows, you might hear yourself on an episode i hear myself in a lot of episodes me too it's crazy it's wild crazy you crazy girl hey megan rosa i love both your podcasts i look forward to hearing your perspectives every week since i discovered them a year ago i'm calling for advice about my long

time best friend but more broadly i'm trying to figure out how to handle relationships i mean friendships but yeah whatever changing from closer to more casual in your adulthood i'm very wordy, so I've had to leave out details and feelings. I'm 29, use she, her pronouns, and I'll call my best friend, Michelle. She's 28 and uses she, her pronouns. To get straight to what prompted me calling in, my birthday was this past Saturday. And when Sunday evening rolled around without a call or text from Michelle, I called our mutual friend, my other longtime best friend from middle school, Kelly, and vented to her about this. She messaged Michelle on IG, even though I told her not to, asking if she'd forgotten my birthday. Michelle responded that she'd wished me happy

birthday on Facebook Messenger. I don't have notifications on, so I went to go see her message, and it was a simple happy birthday with two hearts after another friend in a group message we have, who I'm less close to, had sent me a slightly longer, more enthusiastic birthday message. My hurt around this birthday message is compounded by the fact that I texted her in trying to plan floating on my birthday, asking if she was available on two different weekend days, the first being my actual birthday, and she replied that her boyfriend's high school friends were visiting she and her boyfriend's house on the actual birthday weekend, but she should be free the other day. By the way, I dated one of boyfriend's dead friends for three months

earlier this year and cut things off because we wanted something more casual, so she'd be spending time with him on my birthday. It really hurt me, but I reasoned with myself that I had given her a choice. It had obviously been planned farther in advance. I was only giving a month's notice or so, so I gave a lukewarm response saying that I'd let her know if the date worked for most people trying not to overreact. She then said she might be able to get away from her place for a day if my birthday was the date you went with and I told her that meant a lot but then I decided to do two separate smaller get-togethers since our friends were kind of split in half with when they were available but my actual birthday crew ended up dwindling from eight people to three due to

unforeseen things that came up for people. Anyways it feels like the window to voice my feelings on is closed and that this is the latest episode in a saga with like the last four years of our friendship where I feel like I'm more invested putting in more effort and energy to keeping it alive do you think it's even worth bringing up how hurt I felt about her treatments towards my birthday do you think I'm being unfair and letting a resentment build up and so it's partially on me do you think I need to let her fade to casual she was the best friend who I felt like I could tell anything and I like to hate my friends it's hard to find new casual friends let alone a new best friend i appreciate any advice you guys have on this because it's really been weighing on me for

a little while oh this is like so hard and first like your feelings are so valid which i know can sound like a my friends and i call it ckn which is like a sound like like cringy but like it they are and i don't want it to sound i don't know sometimes i'm worried i can sound condescending when i'm being like sincere but like i think that like it doesn't really matter the actual events that occurred or took place it's about like feel like how we feel about these things and like it could be an instance that something wouldn't bother anyone at all and like they could have a lot of feelings towards it and you could have been a different friendship interaction that you personally call her it wouldn't have affected you negatively at all but someone else

it will have these exact same feelings that they feel that you feel towards this like so we all know our own friendships best way like ourselves and we know when things feel off and I think I mean it makes sense that like you towards the ends of it you said that this feels like it's been like the like this is like a summation of the last four years and this is like sadly a really common thing and I don't think that because it's common it means that it's something that we should get like used to or like complacent with I'm like a over communicator but when I'm like talking to like really close friends, like sometimes I can feel like I'm more inclined to internalize something, whether you're trying to like protect a friendship, or you're trying to protect yourself

and your feelings in that friendship, where it's like, well, if I say something, and like, it doesn't go over well, this person has the ability to like really hurt my feelings like more than anyone else. So I want to play my cards carefully. But I always will advocate for I don't think there's like a statute of limitations on like, when your feelings are hurt, like, there's a reason why you didn't immediately say it. And there's a reason why that it's like still sticking with you. Like, I don't think you have to say, I think if you are comfortable saying something in the moment, you should totally go for it. But sometimes you need some time to kind of process and you think that it might be something that you quote unquote, get over or

move past, or you don't think about more, but you do. And I think that like saying that to her of just being like, really honest of, hey, this, I know this instance had like passed a while ago, but this really hurt my feelings. And it wasn't just this one singular event. I think it's kind of, this felt like the representation that it feels like from my perspective, that I felt like I've kind of been holding on to these friendships. And I don't know if that has been how you've felt, because I really do feel like maybe it's in my own head, but that if I didn't put this much effort in, like our friendship wouldn't be this way.

And so it's made me pretty insecure about this. And so that voice in my head had some more ammo when this instance occurred and this happened. And it just really sucks because I miss spending time with you and I know our lives have grown and changed, but I want our friendship to continue to grow and to change, But I also don't want to hold on to a friendship if this is something that you're that isn't like a priority for you.

Like I'm not asking to be a number one priority. But like when it comes to friendships, like I want to be putting in what I'm getting out. And I don't know if this is feeling one sided or if there's like a conversation we can have about this. But like I would be doing both of us like a disservice if I didn't say that like this situation just really hurt my feelings. You have an option when communicating with friends, I think, is do you want to have a message where you just tell them that your feelings were really hurt and that you just need to get that off your chest so they know that that really hurt you? Or do you want to have a conversation about like where your friendship is going and finding

a solution? Because there's not a solution to hurt feelings. And that's, I think it's just important to know when you're going into it what you want. Because I've had both conversations. I've had both of like, we're not on the same page. Things aren't working out. Like, let's figure this out. but then sometimes like my feelings just get hurt and there's nothing to figure out I just like need

you to know that that hurt my feelings and I need some like recognition for that and I don't need you to fix it I just need you to know so I think it's about figuring out what you what you want out of the situation and then do you think that you're going to get that out of either situation like by having that conversation because if not then it might be you might then prefer to do kind of more a fade or a pullback and i don't think there's anything wrong with that i don't think you have to i don't know i'm i'm someone like i'm not gonna have a conversation you and i both we're ghosters but i'm also i'm not gonna have a conversation with someone if i don't think that you are if i don't think there's a high likelihood that you are going to like understand

that you've hurt my feelings and have remorse about that or that you're going to want to have a conversation with me and like change like the current situation i'm not going to waste any of our time doing that if i don't think that's going to happen yeah at this point in my life the friends that i have that i consider like friend friends like i hold them very close and dear and so if one of my friends that i'm like this is someone that's not like a casual friend this is one of my close friends did to this did this to me a fake i mean i'm not on facebook so but a facebook message is so it's not personal it's not personal at all and so that just feels like that she's someone that does not respect your relationship.

She doesn't respect your place in her life. As a friend, she just sees this as something casual. And so I personally, this would be someone that I probably, for me at this point, I just feel like we're all adults and I just don't have the time and energy to invest myself into people that it's not mutually beneficial for us as friends. And so if they're gonna just treat me this way

and they don't care how I feel on a day that's my birthday, that's super special to me and aren't gonna call me or send a text message directly to me or maybe like post something on social media like directly about me, then you don't have the same thoughts on friendship as I do. And so I'd give her one chance, but she's disrespected you on multiple occasions.

But maybe just say if you want to kind of do like a friendship exit interview, like this has been, you know, over the blah, blah, blah. However long we've been friends, I've cherished our friendship. I've liked when we've done blah, blah, blah. I just feel like recently that we haven't been on the same page I thought I was invested in this friendship but you don't think it doesn't seem like you're invested just to cut energies because it takes a lot of energy to be someone's friend and I don't want to exert my energy towards this friendship like anymore yeah I'm I'm sorry that you have to go through this and and especially

on your birthday like in how long have you been friends with her in the past how has she wished you a happy birthday or any other thing that's going on through your that's gone on in your life anything that you know a big moment that she's been there like to congratulate you or even like small moments or even like when you're going through something tough has she been able to be there for you i would look at this might be like the one thing that stands out as something huge but like look at it over the whole course of your friendship has she always been like this is there something else going on that caused it at this time is she gonna do anything to make up for it does she know how upset you are so that's how i would handle it maybe you've just been

dealing with this bullshit and like you didn't really recognize it because this is like middle school shit like I'm sorry at 28 if you're like sorry my boyfriend's like friend from high school is in town like I can't no what like that's just like such a and it's like you already you also used to hook up with that guy it's so weird to me I also think that like point blank it's weird that like if I'm scheduling something and it like falls on someone's birthday and I'm like planning something in advance like one of my close friends will be like hey did you want to do something on your exact birthday or do you want to do it later I just like want to you know we're a month ahead or a couple months we haven't I haven't heard about it and like that's only if it's during

the week if it's on a weekend I'm not scheduling anything because I'm assuming but if it's on a Tuesday and I'm like hey did you want to do something for your birthday on Tuesday I'm like scheduling a doctor's appointment I was going to schedule it for like Wednesday or something but like I just want to you literally did that for me like yeah this is when you were kind of you were planning on having that surgery you're gonna have and then it didn't pan out that you're gonna have it but like you were asking me like are you gonna do something for your birthday yeah i just did that like that's just like what a good friend does yeah so like even in like the actual practice of like how she handled your birthday on the day of your birthday that i don't think we're like

putting enough emphasis on like the prior to your birthday like that's just a shitty thing in general like we talk about like relationships aren't always 50 50 sometimes you're giving more than you're taking but i think friendships are tend to need to be a little bit more of that and like there's leeway for understanding when people are going through things but it's not about like making up for the things that they lack and like friendship wise like that's not what any relationship is about like you need to be like equal people coming into a relationship like not oh well you're not as communicative so then i will be extra communicative you're not as caring so then i need to be like no and i think that like there is a good chance like like melissa said

there's a good chance that this has been who she is and how her behavior has been and like you just might have grown up and matured and recognized like oh I'm done with this and like a relationship can serve you for a certain period of time and then it's run its course and it's done and it doesn't mean that you needed to have like higher standards before it doesn't mean that you should have ruled her out of being friends with you like it doesn't mean that at all it just means that at this point in your life this is not the kind of friendship that you're like looking for and it sucks because i think it's like you said like you have some other casual friendships this person was like your best friend but i think like if you take away that arbitrary title has she been acting

like a best friend because then you're not you can't really lose something you didn't have but i'm sorry because this really sucks and it would like really upset me but yeah exit interview have a conversation with her and if this is something that she's remorseful of and like actually has like an action plan of like things that we that can change i think like if you want to give her a chance go for it but i think bad friendships are far more draining than no friendships at all agree all right next call hey megan and melissa i'm calling for some advice about dealing with my boyfriend's shitty friends for some context i'm 27 she her and my boyfriend and his two friends who i'm going to call kevin and brian are all 29 he him the boyfriend and i've been together for

two years, Kevin and my boyfriend have been best friends since childhood, and they've both been friends with Brian since college. Everyone I've mentioned so far, including myself, identifies as straight, which I promise is important to the context of the story. I've never liked Kevin or Brian. I think they're really rude, annoying, condescending, and don't seem to have the same values as my boyfriend and me. While my boyfriend understands why I don't like them, he thinks that they're good guys who can just come off the wrong way to people who don't know them well. I've always made an effort to at least be cordial with Kevin and Brian, and I've been willing to put up with them for my boyfriend's sake in the past, but after my boyfriend's birthday celebration last

weekend, I have no interest in being around Kevin or Brian at all anymore. Basically, Kevin and Brian made a birthday cake for my boyfriend, which they proudly showed off and laughed at hysterically. The cake said, happy birthday, F-flir, as in the slur used against gay people. My boyfriend and I were both very upset by this. We agree that it's not okay for straight people to use that word in any context and Kevin and Brian both know that my boyfriend and I have a lot of close friends and family members in the LGBTQ plus community. My boyfriend explained to me that it was a word that he also used to use as a joke, but he grew the fuck up unlike Kevin and Brian and stopped using it years ago when he learned how hurtful it was. My boyfriend apologized to me for his

friend's behavior and let Kevin and Brian know that they'd upset both of us. Kevin did apologize to my boyfriend and me separately, but he seemed way more focused on trying to convince me he's a good person than actually showing genuine remorse for what he did or openness to learning or changing. Brian did not apologize to me or my boyfriend and didn't say anything else about the situation. I told my boyfriend that, at least for now, I refuse to be around Kevin or Brian. I said that if he still wants to hang out with them, I personally think that's really embarrassing for him and I will never understand why he continues to be friends with them, but I can't control who his friends are, I guess. My boyfriend has decided to take the approach of trying to

educate his friends rather than cut them out of his life. He hopes that they'll be able to learn and change and that then I'll be more tolerant of them. While I think it's great my boyfriend wants his friends to learn about social issues, I'm skeptical about how effective this will really be. And I've made it very clear that there's a pretty big chance I may never be open to being around them again. My boyfriend is upset and stressed about the fact that I don't want to be around two of his closest friends, but he understands that Kevin and Brian are the ones who fucked up and he of course is willing to respect my boundaries. So how do I try to get past the fact that my boyfriend is choosing to remain friends with these fucking assholes do

you guys think i'm overreacting or being too harsh do you think i'm not being harsh enough thank you for any advice you can give and i also want to note that yes this did happen during assumption was pride month i'm sorry these men are 29 years old yep okay i know you've been dating your boyfriend for two years but he's 29 and he didn't know that that was hurtful until what college because it's an inside joke with him when brian and him and brian it's him brian and kevin and him and brian didn't meet till college and also you don't like these guys you've never liked these guys so this was quite literally the icing on the cake i was fixed literally yeah that's but you haven't liked them since so like this has been a pattern of behavior and now it was

the literal writing that made your boyfriend be like well now it's time to educate them and when did your boyfriend get educated on these words was that through you did you do the emotional labor of educating your boyfriend on social issues and these things and then did he just go on his merry way and not correct the friends he was with did this not like i'm sorry i just think that like educating someone like maintaining a friendship based on the fact that you can educate someone that's like a there's a time that's there's a time limit on that and like you've had some time but now it's when it is embarrassing to you because that's what this is like now it's no longer that these people are like saying some stupid shit behind closed doors

they embarrassed your boyfriend and i think that's they embarrassed him in front of you and it reflects really poorly on him to you and i think that's what he is the most upset about like do you think if this had happened and you weren't there he would have come home and told you do you think that he would have laughed about it do you think that his response would have been different because the fact that he's saying that he's like no i'm going to maintain my friendship to educate them i would be like i've never liked these guys for this very reason what the fuck have you been doing this whole time because i'm sorry if you've been trying to educate them this whole time they're clearly not susceptible to it not ready to it so say the fuck goodbye like this is

like such an overt overt act of homophobia like this is like so fucked that like this is not the first thing there's been so many of these steps to get to this place to where they feel comfortable doing this and they think they are in a good audience and that audience included you and this is no fault to you at all but it makes me think how your boyfriend has portrayed you when you are not around is not to who you are either you say you can't control your boyfriend's friends with no but you can control who your boyfriend is and like no these men are damn near 30 disgusting i think the first time I heard the F word, I might have been like seven or something. And I have known since I was seven that this is a bad word not to use, that it's a derogatory term not to

use. There's no excuse for it at this point with these grown ass men. I don't know what they do for a living, but they go around yelling it like where they work, like where do they work? they know that this is wrong they know that this isn't something that's okay also you've known them for two years have they shown any growth over this time at all I'm sure they haven't I personally do not have a lot of faith in your boyfriend because as Megan said I think he's using he's acting just the same way as he did when he was in college and just did and goes about it and just laughs things off maybe he doesn't actually say the word maybe he just laughs it off and doesn't course correct them in the moment like kevin apologized but half-ass apologized but brian

didn't also like how much how much more educating like he he clearly enjoy your boyfriend clearly enjoys hanging out with them they see i guess he has fun with them he's not just going to sit and educate them every time they're hanging out there they're having fun so like your actions show how much of a good person you are not your words and so their actions don't show anything as far as them improving who they are and like your boyfriend should be embarrassed to be their friends he should be embarrassed to show his face around them he should be embarrassed that he even is defending them in some sort of way because they're not good people don't act like this no and how clueless are they that he thinks as a nearly 30 year old that the only way that they

are going to be able to be educated is they need him to maintain a friendship in their life open a fucking book read some shit but it's like no no i want to maintain a friend so they can so i can educate them if they wanted to be educated they have every capability to do so themselves and if now this is the time that you've decided you want to educate them what the fuck have you been doing this whole time and again like this is not on your boyfriend to educate them now they are adults they can do that shit themselves and if he thinks that that is his responsibility that he needs to do that first of all it's not going to happen he's not going to do it because there's nothing to change they're too fucking old for that and if that was actually the truth why the fuck would

your boyfriend be friends with like literally two grown toddlers who are 30 years old why would he want to be friends with someone where it's like i'm doing extra credit curricular like a volunteer service or i'm educating homophobes like that's not what he's doing these are what he's calling his friends but like the amount of fucking work he would have to do to educate them is like a fucking seminar and do you think that's what he wants to do no he wants to hang out with his friends he's not viewing it as an educational tool he's viewing it as friendship he's not going to fucking educate them because he actually does not really care that much his friendship quote unquote whatever he views that is is more important to him than ruffling any feathers by stopping them

from being absolute assholes and you haven't liked them since the beginning if your partner thinks highly of you and you do not like someone in their life the only correct response to that if someone that you are really close to it's not a toxic relationship is hmm what is this person seeing that i'm not and what are the differences between this person and i is this is my partner of the opposite sex or gender is this person is my partner, not says is my partner, not like straight is my partner, not white is my partner of like a different background. Like, is this friend of mine doing microaggressions is being sexist is being homophobic is doing these things that don't directly affect or pertain to me, but my partner is picking up on them because it affects

a group that they are a part of, like, if you're in a relationship with someone, and you don't like that's what you do. Like, if I think if I think highly of like you, Melissa, and you don't like someone my instinct is and i've liked them my instinct is not like oh no they're really great let me defend them mine is like oh my what happened we have different life experiences so it is completely natural and completely fine that i could miss something that they have done but if i respect someone and i think highly of them and i care about them i my instinct is to find out what i missed not to defend these people that i can't defend against an experience that I've never had or like feelings that I don't have towards them like it just shuts it down like

your boyfriend even ever asked you like what it is that you don't like about these people because like that's the part if it's just like shutting it down then it's like you don't care what I think you don't they can't do any you don't want you don't want to know you want to remain blissfully ignorant in your fucking bubble and you don't want anyone to come in here and rock the boat and say that what they're saying is not okay because then you have to do some reflection of the fact that you've been laughing at this and creating an environment where they felt comfortable to bring a fucking cake that had the f slur on it for your birthday how did they feel comfortable doing that you are the company that you keep your boyfriend not only calls them friends

but says that they're good guys who can come off the wrong way oh i forgot about that he he thinks that these are good people he thinks that they're good it's a misunderstanding yeah you you just misunderstood what happened. You just misunderstood the whole situation. I implore you, caller, to look at your boyfriend, not for who he presents himself as when he's around you, but as the whole picture, because he's wrong. He tolerates these things to happen. Even if he might correct them one time here one time there what's he doing in the big picture that shows that he is actually a good person that isn't just turning a blind eye to what his friends are doing yeah like who who is he behind closed doors and what would you think of him if someone that you respect and you care about

hurt him with these guys like what would you like i i have no worries or fear or anything of that like someone is going to overhear moths with his like i don't have to worry about him like i don't have to worry about how he comes across how he portrays himself how he carries himself i don't at this point you're gonna then start making excuses for your boyfriend the same way that he's making for his friends where it's like you don't understand him like something he just comes across it's not about not laughing it's not about being like guys come on it's not about like a slight like redirection no no it's like you need to stop these things as they happen there is no innocent joke when it comes to targeting a community that is relentlessly targeted and

has violence against them it's not funny there's no joke in the matter of that because laughing at these jokes and making these things okay and making it be like oh it's an inside joke that we used to say this word like it's a ha ha whatever like no no people die for being gay like people are killed for that like it's not it is not a joke and i will be the first to admit that like there are so many terms and things that like we saw on tv as a kid that was just casual words that were being said and when you're younger and you don't have adults to like let you know like hey that's not something that you learn you you learn later you learn whenever someone tells you hey this thing that has been perceived as normal in media as a joke like i

remember when people would say like that's so gay to me like stupid and it's like that was said on things that it wasn't just on the playground it was just it was it wasn't said in things that it was like oh i'm watching an r-rated movie so i know the things in here are like a list it was said on things that were made for kids who were like 12 13 like there wasn't that level of i don't want to say censorship but like understanding of that so like it became on parents and adults and fellow peers and just as more resources came and teachers to educate people and how that goes and i understand that i grew up with that like there are like the r slur was a word that was in regular vocabulary for me when i was i don't know probably like fifth grade and when i was in no i think it

must have been like in fourth grade that was a pretty common word in my elementary school and we had a teacher fifth grade who had explained like how this was not an okay thing because she heard someone say it and it was oh i i didn't know but i was a child with other children he is a 30 year old fucking man and what that did the first time and it's not the first and only time i've ever been like educated on a term terminology being derogatory or hurtful or harmful to certain groups what the first time that happens you then go hmm i need to pay attention to every word i hear from now on and make sure that i am going out of my way to educate myself because i come from a position of privilege that i am not going to be having a lot of derogatory words used against me

for the vast majority of the things that i'm privileged with so it's on me where i've been educated before so i've been i'll be educated again so it's i have to go seek that out and that has happened to them too that is not a unique experience it's happened to literally every child at some point like truly and we think of the old fucking people who are so set in their ways like we can't say shit anymore. I'm like, no, someone told you 25 years ago, 30 years ago, 50 years ago that what you said was offensive. And in that moment you said, fuck that. I don't care. This isn't the first time you've been told something's offensive. This is you've decided that you don't give a shit. Yeah. I was recently around someone that's older and they were saying things that

were of the norm when they were growing up and are not of the norm. And they're like, and they has said like everything I would correct them and educate them on why it was wrong, why what they were saying was wrong. And they said, everything I say to you is offensive. And I was like, everything that you've said has always been offensive. It's always been offensive, but people now feel more empowered and are educating others. So now it's your job to listen and learn and then take it and do the same. All right. Let's take a break. okay we're back hi hello roll the tapes hi melissa and megan i'm currently dealing with a major fuckboy situation, and I'd love some advice.

I'm 29 and use she, her pronouns, and the story is mostly about a guy I was kind of seeing who's 28 and uses he, him pronouns, and we'll call him Spencer. In December of 2021, I had a really bad breakup with a guy that I was with for a year and a half. We were living together with my daughter, and it was just a really hard time. After a while, I felt ready enough to start talking to other people, but I wasn't seriously looking for anything, but it was nice to get attention, and it's fun to flirt from time to time. In about March or April of this year, I met Spencer on Hinge,

and we started talking every day, and we were really enjoying getting to know each other. After about two months of talking, we finally decided to meet up, and we had a really fun date and ended up hooking up that night. The next morning, he was holding my hand and giving me four high kisses, so I thought we really hit it off. So I was confused that he wasn't reaching out as much after we hung out, and when we did talk, he was saying how I wasn't as affectionate as he thought I'd be and how he felt like I didn't like him. Even though I tried to reassure him that I did, I just didn't want to be all over him and scare him off because it was the first date. We kind of kept talking for like a week after that and he kept saying the same things

about me not being into him and eventually we just stopped talking. So this morning I woke up to a text from him just saying hi so I casually said hi back. He then proceeded to send me a message saying that I gave him chlamydia. I was super confused because I hadn't gotten any symptoms and it caught me off guard as we hadn't talked in like two weeks. I told him that was weird but I would go get tested immediately and he said good because I got tested a week before we hooked up and you're the only person I hooked up with without a condom since then and that made me even more upset and confused I told him he was the only person I had slept with in the last six months since my breakup then he literally said to me it sounds like your ex got it and gave it to you

right before he broke up with you I went this morning and got tested and I've spent the whole morning pissed at my ex but I was talking to my co-worker and she thinks that Spencer's been gaslighting me this entire time she's obsessed with this podcast and told me to call in so I'd really like to hear what you guys think also i'm a sagittarius and he's a scorpio with a little dick so i feel like maybe i should have seen this coming oh wow first of all your co-worker sounds like a wonderful person holy shit man this is where my brain immediately went i may be wrong he knew he had chlamydia the whole time and he slept with you and he wanted to like he gave you chlamydia on purpose also please please please please please please this is for everyone please

do not have unprotected sex with anyone regardless if you're on birth control or not unless you're in a committed relationship a monogamous committed relationship you never ever regardless if someone tells you that they've been tested or anything like you never fucking know and there's just a lot of things that you can contract that can be detrimental to your health so please do not have unprotected sex unless you're in a monogamous committed relationship yeah and i'm sure i mean i'm sure you're beating yourself up about that and like you know that i agree like i agree like i i hope i'm wrong like i hope he didn't purposefully try to give you chlamydia but that is also where my gut is going and that's also a part of the reason why it's like so

wildly important again i don't i don't want this like caller like i don't want you to feel like this is like me preaching to you because like you know like i'm sure you're beating yourself up about this like to everybody else like this is also why it's really important to to use to use condoms is because like i don't know we're so fucking afraid that like every single person is going to be like a serial killer and is like coming for us and all of that like when like these intentional sexual offenses of intentionally giving someone stds that is something that is a much larger threat to actually all of our lives than us getting kidnapped by someone that we don't know and it's these things that can some that can feel like absolutely outlandish but also somewhat

so wild that that they also don't even seem very harmful but they are and it's it's it's really fucked that that is something that like you can only control your own body and that is something that like in these instances of when you're having consensual sex with somebody protection needs to be regardless of how much you like this person and how much you like your gut tells them tells you that they're like great and that they would never do anything nefarious like that like consensual sexually consensual if you know what you're getting yourself into and that is like like melissa said unless you're in a committed monogamous relationship i don't think that that is a risk that i think it's a risk we need to talk about more it's not just about take my word for it

it's you might not even know you might not even know that you have something let's say even like with hiv like you could get tested and it could be like in the incubation incubation phase for six months and you don't even know or hpv like for a lot of people with penises hpv doesn't show any symptoms and so they like haven't displayed anything and so maybe you didn't ask for that specifically on a panel of what they got tested for maybe the last time someone got tested it was after they had tested positive for gonorrhea and they got a second test to make sure they were clear of gonorrhea and they didn't get tested for everything all over again and then you can get that and it's much more harmful to someone with a vagina and it's just

like as a whole you can only consent to what you know you're you know you know what's happening and um that needs to be a part of it so for everybody else i can't imagine and if anyone wants to call this oh this is reverse sexism I can't imagine that not wearing a condom on the first time that you meet someone that you end up hooking up with them was your idea and I am not imagining that he had a condom and you said no I don't want to use this but like I think that when it comes to like our own sexual health like we should have these things on us we should have these this protection but if he showed up to your place and didn't bring anything and still wanted to go through having sex that to me is like a major red flag that he knew exactly what he was doing and then

the whole you're not that into me all of that just seems kind of like mind games to be like I want you to feel indebted to me I want you to feel like I'm trying to make myself look like oh I'm a victim like oh you're not nice to me I'm trying to get you to like be over the top with me and I'm trying to get you to feel like you have to coddle me and you have to give me all this reassurance and then i'm going to make you feel like you are then tied to me and that nobody else is going to deal with these things besides me and that we are in this together and it's like i hate that that's like a thing and like i hope that a lot of people had no idea that was ever like a thing that people do but it is and like it's fucked and there's also maybe even a chance

that he doesn't even have chlamydia and he's just trying to scare you and control you to see what your reaction is or he does and he's not trying to he didn't intentionally try to give it to you but the rest of his actions don't line up so after you get your results back positive or negative let him know and then after that block him completely and don't ever talk to him again Yeah. And if they are positive, make sure to give the clinic you went to or the doctor you went to like tell them like, hey, I let this person that I slept with know. I do think there's a chance they may have given it to me intentionally. So I'm going to give you their name and their phone number. Like they can't let you know medical records and things like that. But when it comes to intentionally, even at the potential of intention, like the possibility of someone intentionally spreading STDs around there, they can look into things and call him for an appointment and then get his last sexual partners and find out those things to do that. Like if STDs and STIs, a lot of that like contact tracing thing that we've used in COVID is also used in these instances, which is why it's important to get tested and also let the people that you have who could have potentially also gotten this know because it helps this network of doctors and patients, doctors be able to protect their patients and treat their patients. so yeah well let us know and we are sending you thoughts hoping that it comes back negative but

also if it doesn't that is like no reflection of like you and the person that you are and i know that you don't need me to tell you that but like there's so much stigma of stis and stds being correlated with like moral failures want to make sure that like you know that even if it comes back negative like it's okay and it's going to be okay and like you're not alone in any of this and they're again it having STDs has like no moral correlation and like it's not a moral failure it's just medical things it's just something that happens and I don't want to negate that it can be like incredibly hard to deal with like emotionally and physically and like something that alters your life but it's not something that is like a reflection of you or who you are unless you

want that to be something for you like it is whatever it is for you but morally or anything it doesn't yeah it's it doesn't define who you are yeah but i'm sorry this is also must be just like such a like mind fuck of like stress for the last couple days of waiting to hear back so I'm so sorry. Ugh. All right, next call. Hi, Megan and Melissa. In this story, unless otherwise stated, we are all 20 or 21-year-old third-year college students.

My friends and I are concerned about one of my friends. We'll call him Max. Being a 35-year-old man, we'll call Frank. Max lives with three other college dudes, and we're all in a friend circle. I started hearing about Frank in May when he started visiting Max's house more often. Max's roommates have met Frank, but as a group, we don't know much about him. apparently Max met him online. They've gone on several weekend-long camping trips without telling Max's roommate. Max doesn't share his location and won't tell his roommates where he's going.

His roommates have expressed concern for his whereabouts and safety a number of times, even to Max, but Max seems indifferent. Additionally, Frank has made Max's roommates uncomfortable a couple of times when he'd be at their house unexpectedly. For example, one of Max's roommates woke up at 4 a.m. and found Frank sitting on their couch in their living room without Max, which startled my friend. Frank also leaves some of his stuff at their house when he goes over and has in the past left his bike in an act. Today, Max's roommates told me that they just found out that Max and Frank

have been talking since Max was a freshman living in the dorm. Max was going through a hard time that year, and we think that that was an opportune time for Frank to enter his life. Frank allegedly travels to our state pretty often, but none of us know where the fuck he comes from or why he's seeking out college students online max is not out yet so none of us are supposed to know this much about their relationship we are very concerned that he's being groomed we don't know how to confront him about his about this without forcing him to come out to us he's already a very private person and we don't

want him to shut us out the girls in our group have expressed that if max were a girl we would have shut it down so quick the guys have said that they don't want to interfere with max's happiness but surely there's a safer way for Max to explore his sexuality when our college and the town we live in has a thriving and accepting queer community. Is it possible to confront him about our concerns without outing him and how do we look out for his safety? A lot of us are traveling out of town for the summer leaving only one of Max's roommates to talk to him directly. Should we have the roommate do the talking especially since they'll be roommates next year when they move to a new city? What reason could a 35 year old man have for keeping shit

and hanging out at a 20 year old college kid's house love the podcast my friend was a past caller and we'd appreciate any advice from y'all have a good day I think it is important to note that like we are anyone who's new here we are two cis straight women but not but that's just a fact I do know that this is sadly a very prominent thing in the gay community I've since learned it's also pretty common in relationships with like two, two women, whether that's lesbian relationships, bi relationships, pan relationships, the only experience I have of seeing it firsthand growing up in my life. And then also, as I got older, in friendships and seeing that is with two men, that's kind of my knowledge for it. So I have a little bit of more knowledge of that.

And I do truly think that when it comes to those large age gaps and the people who are more susceptible to being in large age gap relationships, it does pretty much track across the board, regardless of the sexual orientations of both parties and what the relationship is. The origins of that is pretty similar. And that is that it is a person who is trying to set the stage for what a relationship is and how that works. And so it happens to people who have not been in long-term relationships or have had a lot of attention from whatever person and whatever gender that they are attracted to. so that spans all of it it does tend to happen in gay men specifically because like a lot of the time like your friend max isn't out right now hasn't is going probably went through high school without having any like public or relationships and because people have been pushed in the closet for so long as opposed to heterosexual relationships like there's more opportunity for predatory older people to tell a younger person that this is what a relationship is

because they don't have that experience because they have been pushed into a closet and haven't been able to get out. And so I think it can also has a portrayal of someone you can look up to and someone who is a part of a community and like living their life in a way that they want to. And that also adds a level of power.

And that's what age gap relationships are. It's power. You did mention that it started when he was 18 because I I'm I'm not hesitant to use the term grooming in general, but I'm hesitant to use it in the wrong context because this does feel like now it might be because of what they said. Yeah, I so I looked up like what like the American Bar Association considers grooming and it says sexual grooming is a preparatory process in which a predator gradually gains a person's or organization's trust with the intent of being sexually abusive. The victim is usually a child, teen or vulnerable adult. So in this case, your friend is the vulnerable adult. Yeah. So I think that if the only caveat I'll say is if a sexual relationship hasn't yet started or has only started now, then I think by textbook definition, it would be considered grooming. If the sexual relationship had started already, that's just a predatory relationship. It's not grooming because it's it's gaining the trust and the friendship with that intent later down the road. But yeah, I do think initially I didn't I didn't know. But I do think after the caveat that it was 18 going through a really hard time and now it's seemingly romantic or sexual, but this is grooming. And you kept saying you don't want to out him. So what it sounds like is he's not actually even out to you or out to like your friend group, just maybe his room, like the roommate or a couple other people.

and i mean my advice honestly is to spend as much time with like max as you can and being close to max and this might be like a very backwards way of doing this but i think like making max feel comfortable to bring frank around you and bring frank around your friends and i think that the thing that is a really big issue with this is if someone has built a relationship in secret and private. It's because that that person has told them that everyone else is dangerous. Everyone else is going to be anti this. They're prepping him to be isolated against everybody. And I think as a friend, what you do is you don't let that happen. But I don't think the solution is trying to isolate him from someone who told everyone that this is what's going to happen. Your friends are

going to turn against you. Everyone's going to turn against you. They're not going to understand. So I think the more that you can include Max, and it doesn't even like if you don't feel comfortable. Like you said, your friends, like the axing, I take it back. I don't want Frank to hang out with you all because I forgot about the axing. But if you can make Max's life without Frank and the community so vibrant, so rich, so fun that it becomes these people wouldn't turn on me. These people are people I really care about. And I think if you can display unconditional love and respect and just like joy and happiness and spending time with him, like you recognize he went through a hard time. I think if you can have a surplus of that in his life, it makes it really

hard to rationalize what Frank is probably saying about all of you. And I don't think that there is a way that you can separate them unless it's his own idea. Frank is creating a separate reality for max that they are living in that the world is against them and that everybody like just wants to see him fail and nobody will understand him and they will never get how like what he's going through and he's the only person who can ever love someone so damaged so broken who's been like this like this is a gift and like no one will ever get it as much and so what you don't want to do to somebody who is living in an alternate reality is to shatter that reality then they're untethered they have nothing. What the fuck do they do? They're not going to let that shatter. They're

going to hold on to that. What you do is you create like the real truth, the real reality, but the good parts, not the bad parts, not that we're really worried about you. Like you create something and these wonderful friendships that makes that a crack in the other one. Like you make the one thing so good and so real and so true that that's, it starts to shatter the other image. and from there that is when you'll notice that i he's probably going to start talking about him more it's not going to be as much of a secret or he'll want to bring frank around you all and frank will be so against it like it needs to come from him because it is like a psychological thing and it's actually not helpful for max to like rip him away from frank because it's not there's no

growth and healing in that. And it's either going to backfire in this exact instance, or it's going to get into a worse relationship. Yeah, I think one way to put in practice what Megan was saying was, you say that Frank takes Max on these camping trips where he's essentially isolating Max away from the rest of you all. Sit down and have a conversation with Max and be like, hey, I know you like to go camping a lot. What do you like about camping? What's so like intriguing about it why do you like to go and then be like why don't we all go on a camping trip that just could be one way and then he can see how much fun it is to be around his friends that care for him and you guys can still go camping and just enjoy the things that he likes to enjoy yeah like

Megan was saying just be there for him as much as possible and show a genuine interest and curiosity for what he's going through in his life and you know you did say that max sometimes shuts down quickly maybe change your approach to what's going on me personally i'd find out everything that i could about frank like what's his last name i'd search on the internet just find information just because like what do i look like hanging out with the 20 year old yeah like it's really grossly common yeah i know i've i've seen it portrayed on tv a lot i've also heard other people discuss it but they don't see what's wrong with it well i think the cycle of this which i think has been why we keep perpetuating this is like at least the people in my life who i know

who i watched them date people that was like really inappropriate when i got older and i found out who their first sexual partners were with it was someone who's like 25 years older and because we've normalized it so much instead of recognizing like oh this was an unsafe and bad situation in order to process it and deal with it it needs to be okay so i need to do it to someone else so then it's okay and it's not and it's also something that i find happens a lot in heterosexual couples when parents are in very large age gap relationships they can be moms specifically can be really adamant that their kids should be doing that same thing too because they did it and they need it to be okay and that's like it's a really sad thing it also doesn't excuse the practice when

you're older because we all go through shit and like you have to deal with it and perpetuating the cycle of abuse is like not a way to deal with it and like it's it might feel easier in the moment but it's not the way that you get close to someone I think is not about having because I'm someone who's like I would say I'm relatively emotionally closed off like even with like close friends like the way to get close to me is to not try and have deep conversations with me the way to get close to me is like I want to feel comfortable with you and that's not because like we're talking about like really deep life things or we're like i it's time and proximity and just comfort and like vibes or whatever like so i think that the approach of this is not about how

if he shuts down and how we talk about like these things with him and bring these things up like it's not frank was able to get in here because he saw a door and that door was something traumatic max was going through or it was the fact that max didn't have a strong circle of friends didn't feel like he had people he could trust so you be those people and it's that's all there is to it it's like being a really great fucking friend and like like melissa said planning a camping trip like you love to camp like tell me all about it like i really want to get into this like have you ever seen this like i want to go take a pottery class this weekend like do you want to come do this and it doesn't even have to be like oh we know that he takes him on saturday so we're going to

plan something on Saturday. Don't do that. Plan something during the week. Make things feel like it's not that he's missing out on everything because he's having to choose one or the other because that might raise red flags for Frank and then raise red flags for Max. But like, hey, do you want to have like a movie night after class on this day? I really want to go see this new movie or like tell me about your favorite movies. Like I want to like let's make a list and like we can watch one once a week, once a month, but like making a life that he doesn't want to escape and leave to. He doesn't want to isolate from that life. I don't want you to forget why you're doing this but I kind of want you to forget why you're doing it in the moment because

it needs to come from a really sincere genuine place and it's not about getting like max away from frank yes in practice that's obviously the goal but it's shit how is this person that we care about and love so much what has happened that has led this person to take advantage of them this breaks my heart I hate this I don't want this to happen I need to be a better friend like I want to create a friendship and spend time with him so whatever he's going through whether he wants to share that or not that he doesn't feel like that's the only place he has to turn to right and if you can't eliminate the savior part of this then you need to back off and the friends who can need to be the one doing this because like it is a very delicate situation but i agree like find out

everything you can about him simultaneously maybe some of you do one some of you do the other and being able to keep tabs relatively that you can like do that. But I don't want to say it's like a Max problem versus a Frank problem, but you're not going to get to a 35 year old man and convince him to no longer be doing this to young kids. Like what you have is a friend. Yeah. That's not a position that you as fellow 20 year olds want to be in either. The goal can't be turning max against frank because as a whole as a society the goal is to not have franks out there to not raise franks but as as a young person going through this the the goal is to support your friends and so these horrible people and these horrible instances and stuff they have a life

raft to get out of these situations and like not to victim blame and to to not put onus on him and to not then try and take it down from any other direction so yeah all right time for don't blame them so don't blame them is where a listener will call in with their own advice pertaining to a call we had on a previous episode so maybe they have personal experience and it was a call that we didn't have any personal experience with or maybe they have someone by proxy who they know dealt with that maybe they're a professional in a field that's related to it or maybe they just heard something or thought of something that we didn't or anything else and they're gonna give some of their own advice to the original caller hi megan and melissa this is a call in response to the

caller on the last episode with the boyfriend who has a fear of flying i have a couple points that i wanted to point out my extended family are native to hawaii and a long time ago i had family who moved here and they married people in the midwest which is how i became to be i would not consider myself hawaiian obviously but i still have a ton of extended family there who continue to live on the island and marry natives and have kids with natives like as they are natives themselves and when we have visited in the past i would definitely agree that island is no longer full of natives and it's a ton of tourists and a lot of military which takes up a lot of the island of Oahu. I just wanted to say if you're going to go there, since obviously people still

will, which I wouldn't support, but people still will, it's important that if you are there to only support local Hawaiian businesses while they're there. A nice fact to know is luckily there is a Hawaiian island that is only open to 100% native to the island and they must be invited to be able to visit. My other reason for the call is that my brother is a pilot and sees people scared of flying on a regular basis. He will try and help and say flying is the safest form of travel, but ultimately it is a fear that people have, and pressuring your partner to fly is not going to be a fun situation for him or for you.

If your partner is willing to fly and willing to try, they could potentially go talk to their doctor about getting a flight anxiety medicine and do a lot of research about how safe the travel is and the extensive training that pilots must go through. But ultimately, it can be a super scary situation, and it's the motion sickness. Is the issue, do you really want your partner to feel sick the entire flight? I would personally just go to the wedding without them and either bring a friend or go alone and enjoy your time with your friends, like your partner said, because even if he came, he probably wouldn't have a great time and he would probably be full of anxiety about

the previous flight, being at a wedding with a bunch of people he doesn't know, and then having to fly again. Long-time listeners of the podcast have literally listened since the first episode so thank you so much hopefully this helps i think this is great i obviously don't want to like step on anyone's toes with this but i think like yes supporting local hawaiian businesses is great i just want to make sure that we're not the defeatist kind of mentality which i think is very valid for anybody who is like native to hawaii or has like roots that a family who's native to hawaii that like i don't think you should have i'm not saying like have higher standards for like non-Hawaiians but I just think that like the only reason I say this is because I

saw a brand Benefit Cosmetics did a trip to Hawaii an influencer trip in the midst of this pandemic and their justification behind it was we're supporting local Hawaiian businesses and they supported the sunscreen but the hotel they're staying at is not owned by that and I think when we see corporations kind of using that as a catch-all we have to be really intentional with like how we speak about that because it's i think if you're going on a work trip to hawaii or you are part of a military you're married to someone who's in the military and they've been assigned there i think that like there's ways that yeah that like native hawaiians have said that like please purchase from here if you are already here and doing all of this stuff but for corporations

and organizations that have a choice to go to so many other places that are like so wonderfully beautiful that you can only support native Hawaiian if that is something that you're doing as a compromise it needs to be all-encompassing it can't be just a sunscreen and like I was really disappointed to see a makeup company doing that because I know that they have the resources to go anywhere else but they specifically chose this and if the only if you couldn't if there wasn't a massive five-star hotel owned by and operated by directly profiting nobody other than native Hawaiians, then it is actually not possible for you to go and with your sole intent of only contributing to the culture and to the pockets of native Hawaiians. Then it's not possible.

And then it's not a matter of, it's either you didn't try hard enough or it's not possible. in which case I think like, hey, we have the means to not do this when a lot of other people don't. A lot of people get stationed there. People move for jobs there. And sometimes, yeah, it can be a luxury to turn those things down. So I don't disagree with that sentiment at all. I just don't want us to then see brands who do that and use it as an excuse and use that without any further questioning of tell us exactly how you did that and like what you did because you have the money and the resources to make this choice? And was that the right choice? And last thing, we did get a DM update from the original caller who said,

Hi, Megan and Melissa. I just wanted to say thank you so much for the tough love on the podcast yesterday. For context, I called in about my boyfriend's fear of flying. One, for some reason, I thought the conversation around Hawaii was COVID related, so I appreciate the additional insight. Planning a new domestic dream now. Two, what you said to me made me realize is what I was doing to what my parents did to me, which is very toxic and I really hate and I'm very embarrassed that I even did that. I have severe OCD and anxiety since I was eight, which caused me to fear most normal slash good things in life. My parents didn't respect that, so they forced me into fearful situations daily. Sometimes that forceful push and exposure did help, so I just

assumed that if I could conquer my fears that way, so could my boyfriend. I plan to apologize for not respecting his boundaries and have an open conversation with him later. I also probably need to book another therapy appointment ASAP. Thank you again so much. I was so happy to read that and see that i think this is like a a subtle version of if it's hysterical if it's if it's hysterical it's historical where sometimes when we react to other people and not situations that are happening to us we can sometimes come off really strong and like really intense and like just really kind of not ourselves because we're coming from a place of this has happened to me before and now i'm acting this out again but on the behalf of someone else exposure therapy only

works if the person that's going through it has consented to it and he has not consented to being exposed to this yeah and sometimes like when those shitty things happen we don't want to think that our parents are bad people and so we sometimes think if there's nothing wrong with looking at things with rose-colored glasses when it pertains to your own life and if you would rather be like you know what I can't deal with the possibility that this was harmful my parents were harmful to me so instead I'm going to say that this was a helpful thing I'm not specifically saying that this is what they think but just in general and that's fine but you can't push it on to other people that same way because that is then just continuing that cycle and I think it's I'm glad

that you they've caught it now and have like understood that that's really not how it is but sometimes yeah we justify the ends justify the means and again that's a very fine thing to do in your own life it can serve you for a certain point or that could serve you forever but we just need to make sure that if we are doing that we know that we're consciously doing that and we're not projecting that onto other people so i'm glad and also the facebook group did a wonderful post of beautiful places besides hawaii that non-hawaiians could go visit ventura california pismo beach california la jolla california tillamook oregon santa cruz california catalina island california the original authors from california some other comments from other people

newport road island but yeah so this is something that like me personally as a someone of european descent so i'm on stolen land and so i think that researching where you go anywhere is really important i don't want us to ever think that it's well we're always going to harm someone so might as well like fuck off like that just to me is driving a car on fire without a seat belt like we have these precautions and these things that i think it's important to take into consideration because there's always something that you can do to give back to a community where you are whether that is like your current grassroots like local community if there's an underprivileged underserved area that you are in i think that there's always things that we can do and it doesn't have to be

I think it's a wonderful opportunity that like, we have to support whatever we can where we are to like learn about like the history like past and present. And that when conservatives talk about like, well, if we don't like have all these statues, like history will be doomed to repeat itself. But no, that's not what that that's this. If we ignore these things, then we continue to perpetuate colonizing and like abuse and terror. And so, yeah, so I think it's great and happy that there's some insight there. That's it for our episode. Let me see if we have any reviews. All right. This is from Cheeseman Customer. Refreshing. Five stars.

I'm an older woman, so much of what they say doesn't apply directly to me, but they're able to address subjects of relationships, sexuality, and sexuality that I wish I'd had available to me when I was a lot younger. i definitely recommend it and for older women this would give you good insight into what younger women are thinking and saying huh i never thought about that last part that's really cool yeah i've had people who've like watched my youtube channel because they're like parents and like they're like moms and they're like well my kid watched it and like i wanted to like not monitor what she was watching but like see what she was interested in and like see what she would like and they have

kind of gotten into like youtube for that as well and i think it's a cool way to you know listen to those things and then also know if you work with younger people or you just have like younger people in your life it can be intergenerational thing can be cool yeah thank you we hope that everyone enjoyed the episode if you want to leave a review please do on the apple podcast app and you can also head on over to spotify and review and if you are still listening a go follow our instagram and comment on the latest picture comment on it what your just your stun sign your astrological sun sign i wonder if we have like a very big disbursement even i mean obviously we won't see everybody's but like if it's going to be concentrated with the people who then end

up commenting or who listen i'm curious how many we have of whatever okay well that's it for the episode if you want to call in for next one please do always looking for more calls same thing with update shoot us an email if you have an update and we can schedule to have you on the episode and we'll see you next time goodbye don't blame me is a production by me executive produced by melissa de monts and diamond and print productions edited by coco lawrence post-production sound by chris henry production assistance by Melanie D. Watson. Music by Ryan Hunter and Giacomo Picasso.