Doomed to Fail - Bonus: Interview with Marcos Antonio Hernandez - Author of "Where They Burn Books, They Also Burn People""

Episode Date: September 8, 2023

Today, Taylor interviews author Marcos Antonio Hernandez, the author of "Where They Burn Books, They Also Burn People," - which was the main inspiration for our episode on Friar Diego de Landa and the destruction of the Mayan culture.We talk about his writing process and inspiration, how we deal with not knowing all of human history, and what the future might look like when people look back on us and our choices.It's our first interview, and we are super excited!Learn more about Marcos here -https://www.authormarcoshernandez.com/https://www.instagram.com/mar_cos_a_h/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail]  Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

Hi everyone, Taylor here from Doom to Fail. Today's bonus episode is an interview that I did this week with the author of the book Where They Burn Books, They Also Bird People, Marcos Antonio Hernandez. It is the book that I used as one of my sources and inspiration for the podcast that we did on Friar Diego Delanda, the person who burned all the Mayan history and a ton of their idols. So it was a really great getting to talk to Marcos about other tragedies that happened in the Yucatan and in South America, as people from Europe came over and started to take over their cultures. So we talked a little bit about the future, what that might look like, and how we can make sense of the past.

So I hope that you enjoy this. Thank you. In a matter of the people of the state of California versus Hortenthall James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me for a little bit to talk about your book. Did you get a chance to listen to our episode that I did? I did. I skipped around, but it's a little bit – it's kind of helped because, like, I literally wrote the book on it. I love it.

I knew a lot about it. I'm like, okay. Well, as long as you weren't like, oh, my God, this is not at all what I was trying to convey. That is good. That's good. I mean, it's like history. So it's like you're, you're, you're, you're going to come to your own conclusions and opinions, whether it's even if it's what I wanted to convey or not, right? It's like, that's kind of, it's up to you. These things actually happen. So it's like, it's not really up to me to, to, to police how you felt or how you conveyed your whatever. Yeah, totally.

Yeah, I love to just start by, you know, this is the first of your, your books that I've read. And I know you have several others and some of them are more like fantasy side. and some of them are this, you know, historical fiction. Tell me a little bit more about how you started to do this, like this historical fiction of the European kind of colonization of Latin America. Well, so I started out. I have, gosh, I have like maybe seven out of eight of my first books I wrote were science fiction and fantasy.

And so, and then I wrote one about my dad. I interviewed my dad over. I think it was like six or six or seven, eight, something like that interviews. And we talked about kind of everything. I heard, and I never got the full story. He's from El Salvador, so he immigrated here in 1979. And I had never gotten the full story. And this leads into it, trust me.

So this is just kind of context. Go, go, love it. But so I heard the whole story, and I wrote, I kind of wrote down like a fantastical version of his trip from El Salvador to the United States. and the title education of wetback i did get some pushback mexicans in particular didn't like it there's a couple of book clubs that review bombed to me because i had made them think about this terrible word um so it's like it's that's very valid i was going to i was trying to be take push buttons and i did you know so it's like i get it right um i don't feel the same way about words but you know again i'm not here to police opinions right so anyway so that was kind of an

eye-opening experience because that was my most successful book to date, especially during especially during Hispanic Heritage Month in, I think, 2019, I believe. Anyways, so I wrote a couple more science fiction books and then pandemic happened and my grandma passed away from COVID and she passed away in El Salvador. And so, thank you. And so I started and she's indigenous and kind of It's like a thing. So I started researching more and more about indigenous population, where exactly she came from. And it was super frustrating because there's not a lot of, not a lot of, of like actual delineations of tribes or geographies or locales or anything like that. It's just kind of like, these have these people and those have those people.

And so eventually it kind of stumbled upon the, the Maya and then. the priest uh diego de landa who who burned the mayan books and then sent back as bishop and i was like that is kind of ridiculous that i never heard of it wild yeah it's like not really like a thing that people know about and so then i wrote that and then that kind of has been i that that's like that's been a bestseller it's like that's where i make the most like that's i sell the most copies by far. So that's how I kind of got into the whole Hispanic heritage and indigenous history, Latin American conquest stuff. And you do it with that. Like you were saying, you weave in a little bit of that like fantastical thread, you know, through the stories. And I think that, what was your

thought process upon like doing that and not just like a straight up? Well, okay. So, so honestly, if I was going to do the nonfiction treatment, I feel like it, I would take way longer. Let's put it that way. Like I would have a much more scholarly approach to the nonfiction treatment of these type of events. And again, not that what I'm saying is inaccurate, not that what I'm saying is X, Y, Z, but it's just I don't feel comfortable putting my name on this like history nonfiction book unless I've like primary sourced it, translated it myself. and I don't even speak Spanish well enough to do that.

So it's like there are so many things involved that are prohibitive to doing a straight history nonfiction. But then it turns into like, okay, so this is going to be historical fiction. And then I just try and make it entertaining. Like a lot of times I just think about friends or family that don't like to read. I was going to teach them about this stuff. How would I do it? Totally. Totally.

Yeah, I do. I definitely know people who are like, oh, I don't like to read. And I'm like, what? Let me give you some things to read. There's so much out there. Exactly. Exactly. I see all your books behind you.

You can see all my books behind me, you know. So one thing, just one more thing about your writing. And then I have some questions just about, you know, Friar Diego and the Mayans. I'd love to just kind of pick your brain on. But one thing that you do that I really, really like. And I looked it up and I think it's called concise characterization. I don't know if it's really called that. But that's what I'm thinking is.

Some of your characters, we don't know very much about them. We only see them for, you know, a paragraph or two, like the supervisors at the ice cream factory and at the coffee shop and the librarians, but I feel like I know them so well. Like, I know the librarians always cold. I know exactly what she looks like. I know exactly who that woman is. I just wanted to point that out. I love that. Those little side characters you never see again, but you feel like you stepped into their life for a moment.

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. So that was about speaking about that. When I first learned, so I'm not educated as a writer or anything like that. I was educated as an engineer, but then I decided that I wanted to write. I've always read a ton. So I've decided I wanted to try and write it. And I worked with an editor for the first three books and spent the equivalent of maybe,

I want to say like a semester, no, no, a year, about a year of university. roughly like 10k like I'll tell you it's like but like to work with a developmental editor to get me to kind of like figure out what I need to do because I'd rather instead of sitting here taking all these theory classes about writing whatever I would much rather just like all right let me just do it and then we'll fix it and then like oh my gosh that was that was infuriating so it's like because it's very much like and it's still getting edits to this day it's very much like you get your entire semester's grades it like one fell swoop and you're just like oh my god Like, I'm terrible at everything.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's just like your whole like months of work just come down and you're just like, okay, let's say everything I go. But the development order, that was one of the big things. It was characterization. He was like, because there's a book I really like called Blindness by Jose Seramago. And in it, none of the characters have names. They're all descriptors. And so you kind of, it's just, I don't know, it always stuck with me.

And then, so I tried to do something similar, but he was like, even if you do that, you have to give them, like, more meat. Like, you don't have to, like, dive into their whole backstory, but you have to have something about them. And so then it just turned into, like, what you see. Yeah, I love that. I see that. I noticed it first in, I read a ton of Stephen King books, but, you know, Stephen King books in, like, the stand is one of my favorites of his. And he just tells these stories in, like, three sentences of someone's life. and it really is, like, impactful.

And I, like, think about those people a lot. And I'm like, I don't know anything about them. I just know, like, this little tiny bit that happened to them. Sure, sure, sure. This tragedy. So one thing that, like, I talk about a lot in, so our podcast doomed to fail, we want to talk about, you know, historical failures so far as just true crime failures. So far as just true crime things and then I do more historical.

So I started off doing a lot of, like, relationships like Catherine the Great and her husband, Mark Anthony and Cleopatra, you know, people who were, like, romantic relationships where, you know, it was really like tumultuous and dramatic and all these things. And now I'm kind of like into all sorts of different things that are like tragedies and disasters. And like right now I'm doing volcanoes and things like that. Okay. Like Pompeii type stuff? Yes, I did Pompeii. I started with Mount Toba that erupted 70,000 years ago. And from that eruption, we all come from the same group of people who survived. So it like cleared out a history, a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. So I did that one. I did Pompeii. I just did Mount Tambora that erupted in 1815. And that resulted in a global climate change. And then 1816 was a year without a summer. So the global temperature dropped like two degrees. And a lot of cool stuff happened like Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein that summer because it was creepy. It was like a completely creepy summer. Sure. That's awesome. Yeah. So I'm doing stuff like that. But one thing that like I always struggle with and yell about. have like a kind of a backwards existential crisis is that there's so much history that we will never know because of you know so many different reasons like you know you brought up pompey but come pompey it's was a tragedy like 2,000 people died yes but it's also like a miracle that we have that stuff we can see roman life in full color we can't do that anywhere else you know yeah so like we're able to see that and get things from pompey that would have been totally lost if pompey hadn't been covered in the way that it was um how do you like i my question is how do you survive emotionally

because i get really emotional about it but like how do you survive knowing that like there's so much stuff about you know in this particular case the mind people that will never know um so uh i i'm neurodivergent so like i actually don't experience emotions like that vividly so it's all very academic for me like just honestly right totally it sounds less stressful but yeah it's so much less stressful and it's and there's a lot of details like um some of the stuff that gets me is like personally it's not even the the global loss of knowledge it's when i write or when i imagine characters in those situations or under some of the more gruesome things that i don't even put in the books it's just like man that must

of like just like yeah thinking about the kids seeing their parents take or like it's like the the personal aspect is way worse for me in terms of like kind of getting me a certain way yeah necessarily the um the kind of the the concept of the lost history because i don't know I feel like it's kind of you know even even globally right how many books were written back in in Greek, right? In ancient Greece, right? But we only know, what, like the Odyssey and maybe, you know, some scholar probably knows maybe a couple hundred, right?

But like, most, yet there's only a handful. So it's just kind of like, in my head, I just, I very much intellectualize it. That it's just like, it's just a product of time. Like, you're just, not everything is going to rise to the top and this is just the way things are. But in terms of, like, what really kind of, kind of gets me a little bit is, like, imagining what it would be like because a lot of what I do is like imagining how these people were what I how they would react XYZ and so then just thinking about like these little small like the

human interactions is where it's just like man this is this is not fun yeah but and then like some of this stuff especially because Cortez in uh they also burn they also burn people um there's a lot okay so like it's it's like you take a little tiny truth but then just turn it up to 10 okay and so then there's a portion when it's just like when cortez's mom is yelling at him and it's like these are all things that i thought of as being like as an imposition but like again just magnified way right like it's like i'm sure it's annoying to deal with whatever it is right so most peculiarities for a year right Yeah. It's like, but like, and so, and so just turn that way, way up and then like make the peculiarities weirder and also make the response more. And then that's like, so those are those are a little challenging sometimes. But overall, it's very intellect. It's like an intellectual exercise for me. So I have a little bit of an advantage that it doesn't, doesn't hit me the same way. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And in that case, like in that part of the book as well, like it had a physical impact on like the environment like the apartment and all of that that was super cool um cool

so thinking about like the um you know the horrible things like you know you were saying like you know imagine your your village being burned down and everyone moving to a new place where there's no food and we see that happen in history hundreds and hundreds of times thousands of times you know that that's happened but then thinking about like the person who like went in and did it and actually like did the thing and I did see I've been like watching your reals on Instagram and there was one where you were talking about people saying mentioning to you that like well why should we care about the Maya because like they sacrificed people. Did you get that and I got that too when I was reading the book.

I got that from my cousin and I was like well don't you just want to know what happened like I don't well and the thing is it's like a lot of it is like they're thinking of the Aztec and so that's just that's super frustrating and then it's like okay and if you're going to talk about the sacrifices we'll let's talk about throwing him to sonotes not like we're not talking about cutting hearts out like you guys are too stupid to even know what the hell you're talking about in the first place it's like super frustrating yeah um because but so and i honestly i'm just like i i just kind of globally try and like be like all right guys like if you don't know enough then like we're not you're not qualified to have this conversation like i just and it's like

kind of you know if you don't do any of the homework homework to read and learn, then it's just like, all right, like, I'm not, this isn't worth my time. Totally. Because there's, there's going to be people everywhere that I disagree and argue and shit. So it's like, all right. Yeah. I know. I was talking to, like, one of the first episodes we did, I was like, I feel like every week I'm doing a book report, but I really want to do this book report.

And Farras was like, yeah, homework is different when you like want to do it. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, I want to do these book reports every week and share it to you guys. Share, share what you learn. Share what you know. I'm like, could I make a little diorama? like maybe like a poster and like bring it to class and to everybody I would love to do that um I listen to a podcast um on history hit which is like a channel that um has a lot of it as like European history but I did listen to a podcast they had um with a woman name and Dr. Elizabeth Graham and she has been to the Yucatan and done some archaeology and things there um and she had said specifically about like the sacrifice and the violence that she thinks that it may never have happened at all um because what we have is um some of the like we have stories where it did happen but we also don't have the whole entire

context and if you had any story of like any of the like of you know ancient Greece ancient Rome like they sacrificed people they would cut off their enemy's head and put it on a stick like nothing different you know and they just yeah yeah so a lot of times I just think about how because Europe Europe and like kind of West Asia ish where and I guess southeast but like not the middle but anyways because they were civil they were like populated so much earlier even like that couple thousand years like all they like it's just literally like a thousand year head start and so it's like they were doing the same shit just a thousand years before and so if you just wait it or again they wouldn't have waited they can't wait but whatever it is it's just it's only reason

because the time they came across and then spread down and had their civilizations and it's like they even the Maya even invented writing independently right and so these things were clearly moving And so who's to say they wouldn't have gotten to the same place that, again, Spaniards were still murdering during the Inquisition. So it's right. In 1400 with the 1,000 year,000 year, whatever the years are. And we're doing it now. Yeah. People are doing that.

Right. And so it's just very interesting because it's just like very much like, I read something in similar, in a similar vein. I'm reading about the Mexican Revolution because I'm writing the next book's about the conquest of the Aztec Empire, but then kind of like, Our Lady of Guadalupe plus Mexican Revolution all mixed in. But forget who it was. Somebody, I think it was, one of the Mexican politicians more or less said that they should have taken care of the natives like the Americans did instead of letting them live. They were like, we should have just wiped them out instead of dealing with their voting rights. And it's just like, and so again, like I'm not even that like necessarily. upset about things i'm just like like it's just it's just kind of like okay like let's just not

forget that this happened like let's not act like we're per like that's the part that gets me is we're sitting here like pointing fingers left right and center but it's just like oh my god like 150 years ago we just destroyed an entire species so that way another group of people would not be able to have food like it's so wild but then we're sitting here judging so again i'm not I'm not even passing judgment. I'm just like, hey, this happened. Yeah. Let's not forget.

We should know about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's good just like be able to just bring, you know, bring that into your general overview of, you know, human history and, you know, what happened. Just like, kind of broadly speaking, people should know this stuff. But it's like, no, you know, like people act like black people didn't just get the right to vote like 50 years. It's like the whole concept of it is like the. The understanding of timelines is really problematic sometimes, I think.

Yeah, yeah. It's really not a long ago. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Totally. Totally. Do you feel a little bit different, like, again, going back to, like, Friar Diego that we have a person to blame and, like, a moment to look back on for a lot of things

instead of just like a general, like, you know, we came to the North America and everyone died and it was terrible. but like we have a person who did a specific thing and we know the day he did it and we know people who were there yeah and so um honestly honestly though because like cortez was an ass right he's murdering he's murdering everyone and then we got i wrote a book about gonzalo pizarro francisco pizarro's brother and he's doing all sorts of stuff but but these people weren't associated with the church and that's where like that's the thing that really like kind of screws me like gets me a little bit because it's just like like that's especially in like the way people think about

the church in general it's like this kind of super nice benevolent force that's always for good it's like oh my gosh like this is not true like this is it's just it's just not it's just false and again right right right I can make the I could argue for or against right now I could be like community is fantastic I can be like okay it's a cult I literally could go either way but but at the end of the day it's just like I would expect them to be held higher standards because of the position that they try and occupy and therefore it's like okay that's why it's like okay that's why it's like okay that's why I feel like it's necessary to hold them to a higher standard because I some soldier Christian soldier coming looking for gold okay is anyone that surprised that he's chopping

off heads right not really but some like a priest is sitting here they're torturing people and then destroys a like a shit ton of stuff like that's where it's just like, come on. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if you got to the part where I yelled it. I don't think the Catholic Church has any redeeming qualities. Because I can't think of what. My only thing I could kind of think of is like the architecture is very lovely. The Sistine Chapel is beautiful. But this is like, and I talk about this stuff on streaming my friends too because I do have Christian, very Christian and Catholic friends as well. And they have no problem arguing with me. and I do like I 100% agree community is huge you know it's like my aunts wouldn't have anywhere like I don't even know they wouldn't talk to anybody outside of work if they didn't go to like Matt so I get I get it I do it's not for me necessarily but I get it and so it's just like that's where but I'm just like okay but yeah yeah totally and then yeah I think that that's a really good point that like this person was it is I don't know how

based in fact the part of the book where like he was trying to help literally in the beginning like he was seeing my and people be abused and trying to help them and then he just flipped it and just like did this did worse to them did the same thing right yeah um very paternalistic like anger yeah um yeah super i'm so glad that i you know came across your instagram um and read this because it was great i'll definitely pick up the other ones The last question that I want to make sure that I ask you is, well, actually, I have two questions. One, if the Spanish hadn't arrived, do you think it would have just been the next guy who arrived who would have, like, done the same thing? Or do you think that it depends on, like, it depends on, I mean, I really, I think that, you know, putting a speculating ad on that, you know, if within maybe 50 years, something similar might have happened within, like, if, like, if you.

they were given another hundred you know who knows that then that seems to be like then it might even have been like right like we talk about maya as like a monolith but there was like really they some were working with um montejo someone were like they were kind of like it was and same thing with as tech there's like as tech was just like literally though teetland but then it's like there's all these you know so then then they aligned with the flux colloqu something i forget i'm still researching but anyways um and it helps when i write it out too. But like they're aligning with all these different factions of different peoples. But it's like, who's to say that these wouldn't have almost like coalesced into an Aztec or Maya? And then it's

like, okay, then it turns into almost like like a France in England. Right. And so it's like good luck invading France. Oh, I guess maybe you could. But if you, you know, so it could have just kind of expanded enough to be, uh, to hold their own against any invaders. And plus any invaders would have had to cross the ocean. So it's not even like they could have brought enough supplies, enough people fast enough to do anything. So it's just really, really, really like even again, even a, I think even a hundred years. Again, I'm just assigning a random number to it. It could have been 200, whatever it is. There is a certain number of decades later where I don't believe it would have been such a straightforward proposition.

We would have a little bit more of that catch up time. Exactly. They just needed to get to where kind of the world was but you know you say then the inco were so far down there that they had and they had this massive stores and they had like this completely functioning socialist society where everything belongs to the state and you have you know warehouses of clothes and food that you just kind of are earned by three months of labor and so that's so cool exactly and so like who's to say that wouldn't even have won out over everything else because then they look across the ocean like these warring people over religions yeah exactly there's only one religion the sun god and i'm gonna fucking murder all you know but it's like you can you can kind of see a

right where these things might have happened but um but that's why like there's a book called black sun uh i don't know if you've read that i haven't i look it up it's called it's by um oh my gosh i should know this rebecca rowing horse okay see it yeah that one it's really good it's like a it's like uh fantasy but if it was in meso america oh cool um and there's a the sequel just came out i think earlier like last year maybe and then the third book but it's like one of it's my that's what oh i have the crow here oh sweet yeah so you don't have this yet you don't have this cover from your book yet because no i didn't see that do you think this is a dope tattoo i think you should i know well i was i don't have a lot of room left i'm so um

i have half of my back still open okay and my right shin you got to get it in there yeah yeah You can make it a little smaller. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, check this out. This seems super cool. The, yeah, when from just the, we're just saying the thing that also I think is wild is just how long it takes for messages to go across the ocean. Like, you know, a message from Spain being like, you know, destroy these people and they change their mind, you can't take that back, you know.

And we couldn't telegraph across the ocean until like 120 years ago, you know. I was going to say, I don't really know when, but it's definitely. like late 1800s, I believe. There's actually a great book. I'll find it about when the telegraph was invented a couple, murdered someone in the UK, took a boat to the U.S., and they got caught in the U.S. because they didn't know the technology existed. So, like, they didn't know that they could telegraph from the U.K.

to the U.S. to say, stop that boat. These people are on it. Right. but um i think it's called dead wake interesting but it's super super interesting um yeah yeah that was lucitina it's eric larsin but yeah but it's all brand new in in the long in the grand scheme of things right right yeah exactly we're in the very small blip yeah and then what do you so what do you think i guess on that like what do you think about us will be a mystery like i feel like we think that we have is so permanent but what do you think if what could be a

mystery about our. Really? Like in the future? Yeah. Like in the future. Like what if they didn't know anything about us? Like what would they find or what you think people would like? Do you think they'll ever happen?

I think that. Okay. One thing I'm like convinced of is that people are going to be absolutely appalled that we eat animals. Yeah. So I'm not a vegetarian at all. Like I eat meat three meals a day, right? But if it was, if it could be lab grown at a cost-effective,

rate, I would have no problem eating grown meat. And so, but in a hundred years, and it's just like, oh, yeah, they literally had restaurants around eating an animal. Like, I went to one in New York called like pig or something. Like, yes, exactly. But that's one that's going to seem. And again, because of the digital nature of everything, I think it's going to be very hard to scrub, right?

Especially there's a, I want to say it's a book or a. podcast something but pretty much talks about how until 2000 there were actual decades and after that and it's it's just kind of it's just this continuous timeline because now we're so connected um i think they made the argument that was like 2008 then facebook first launch right but now it's like there's really no sense there's no decades anymore it's just kind of there and so it's not unreasonable to expect that you could almost take a time capsule back to you know i don't i mean i'm I don't have children or anything, but you know, you could probably just be like, oh, where was he in 2020 or it's like, oh, my gosh, my dad during the pandemic, right?

So you can easily just be like and scroll back. So I don't think there's going to be too much mystery. I think it's not going to be behavioral. Like, all these like, I mean, and just regardless of your stance on it, like, time has always favored more inclusive rights. And so it's like, and so just the lack of, like, again, regardless of how you feel, about it's just like that's just facts and so like they think it's just going to seem so odd that they're just you don't just like what do you what like again not it's i think a lot of the issues

are are are a little bit tricky to solve not that they're unsolvable it's just tricky but it's just like like you guys discriminated because of one skin color right right two gender it's like yeah or like or lack of whatever it is but like it's just going to seem so odd in like three generations of like what and you guys ate animals right discriminated and like yeah difference between men and women like like it's just going to all seem so foreign you're like guys I don't know what to tell you yeah yeah exactly I think that I think looking back I think that we will I think the big one though is going to be like I cannot believe you guys ate animals yeah I think that's going to be one that's especially once lab grown meat becomes cost effective it's

that's that's wrap it's yeah i totally agree i feel like that will and then yeah that will solve climate issues solve all sorts of stuff so totally awesome i think it's just a money issue right now so of course there's lobbyists and all the things and yeah yeah um awesome well i'm going to buy your other books and dig into those because thank you so much and i super enjoyed them so i'm so glad to talk awesome yeah had demons came out in june audio books about to come out in like two weeks or something like that i'm just waiting for it to get approved and then i'm about to start writing the one about um aztec and it's kind of like more inclusive of mexico but it's also going to be more novelty and less historical fictiony so it should be a good a good enjoyable

read awesome well good luck with you know the rest of your your research for that and everything and i really appreciate your time thank you so much it's been so fun um and i'll follow along on on on Instagram and make sure I know what you're doing next I appreciate it all right I'm going to stop recording and and sign off but have a good rest of your evening and thank you you too yep bye Thank you.