Doomed to Fail - BONUS: Re-Release - The 2008 Financial Crisis

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

It's a re-release! Let's revisit Episode 45, where we talked about the financial crisis of 2008—what do you remember? Taylor worked at a hedge fund, and she remembers the yearly 'work trip' moving from the Bahamas to..... the Hamptons.How did we get there, and what can we learn from the experience? Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In the matter of the people of the state of California, first is Hortonthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. I haven't talked yet today, so. The people want to hear us banter. I know. That's all they want to hear. No, I'm in New York City with just me and my husband.

We got here on Thursday. Today is Sunday. We're going to a wedding tonight. I'm very excited. It's at the Bronx Botanical Gardens. We've had such good food. We've seen a bunch of friends. It's been really nice. Your Instagram is going on fire. Thank you. Yeah, it's been super fun. I've walked like a bazillion steps yesterday. We had a cocktail party for the wedding and then went to dinner and then my friend was like, let's do something after dinner. And I was like, absolutely not. I have to go to bed. So I slept for like 10 hours because it's been a lot, a long trip. But I think good. Is it amazing being back in New York?

Oh, it's so fun. I love New York. I know we talked about this, but it's great. We've, you know, we can walk everywhere. I mean, there's so many people. I've seen more people in the past two days and I've seen in the past like six years combined. Yeah. You know, like number of volume of people walking on the street.

There's so many people here, obviously. But no, it's very nice. Nice. Nice. So excited that tomorrow's Labor Day. I can just be a show Oh, I know, me too I'm going to have a long day tomorrow too

I have to go Oh, so here's another thing that happened is on the way here So my mom is watching the kids She drove from Las Vegas to Joshua Tree to watch the kids An hour into her drive Her car broke down

So she calls me on Thursday Or Wednesday She's like, I'm on my way But my car just broke down I'm in the middle of the desert I don't know what to do And so I was like I'll come get you So she called AAA

AAA AAA was like we can be there in three hours It's like 6 o'clock at night So I was like I'm on my way when I was like an hour on my way to get her, she got her car working again because she called her ex-boyfriend who knows about cars. They looked at her engine together

over FaceTime, and he found there was like a thing that was disconnected. He had to reconnect it and tie it with a plastic bag and she fixed it. And then she was driving and then I drove and we kind of met two hours in the middle and then I followed her home. But it was a long day to get here.

But I'm really proud of my mom. Oh, my God. How long? earth would it take you less time than three hours have gotten to her she was in like the middle she wasn't already there yet like it was you know what i mean yeah okay and then she drove two hours like we ended up driving two hours and i met her at a gas station got it okay so wasn't you're gonna say that much time you look bad luck with cars man i know but it but we're fine she did a great job and you fly back when tomorrow so um we fly back tomorrow night and then

we drive home from Las Vegas because we flew out of Las Vegas so we have a long travel day tomorrow too but today's a good day we had brunch with family and then the wedding nice that's exciting that's a really good little trip and it's really all got to have a little romantic get away together and the weather's perfect so that's also really nice and the brother's perfect um cool well let's go ahead and record so we can get back to weekend Labor Day long weekend stuff and and so seeing it from Okay. Welcome to Dune to Fail, the podcast we covered two stories, one historical, one true crime about things that were doomed to fail. I'm Farr's joined here by Taylor, who is in New York. Hi, Taylor. Hello. That was effortless. I did so good on that one. I barely even. You did.

You did. I loved it. I was made for podcasting. So I assume that I go first today. You do. I go first. Okay, then why don't you tell us where you're drinking? Yeah. You know, I'm looking it up right now. And I cannot pronounce any of these things that I got. I wanted to find a drink from Indonesia. Oh, here. Here's one. Coconut water. Let's drink coconut water. I love coconut water. That's what I'm drinking. Yeah, that's awesome. I do and I don't. The last time I had it, I had morning sickness when I was pregnant with Florence. And so it kind of makes me feel gross because it reminds me of that. But I used to. that's fair it didn't cause it but it happened to be there when it was happening it's like me and tequila the first time i got drunk my cousins got me drunk on tequila and i took it took it took like 20 years to drink tequila again totally your first one's always gross yeah yep yep so i'm

drinking what's referred to as a dirty chile latte this is not i'm not familiar with this stuff and so you know you just get a coffee but these are really good if you ever had they're just trying lots they're really good it's definitely a second time you told me this i know i'm i'm a broken record um so okay i'm gonna go on my story and i'm gonna start by shouting out our favorite podcast last podcast on left oh god they did a special guest episode a q and a with the best podcaster ever dan carlin and it was awesome did you look i haven't listened to you No, not yet. I haven't had time, but I'm going to listen to it on the plane ride home.

But I definitely was listening to last week's episode, like the question episode, I think. And they were like, yeah, well, the person we're interviewing next week, it's very special. And I was like, oh, my God, I know it. It's got to be Dan Carlin, it's got to be, you know. So I'm so fucking excited for them. That's the best. If folks don't have never listened to it, hardcore history in his hardcore history, addendum in common sense with the three podcasts that he runs they're all they're amazing it's

probably the most well research most articulate way of like describing historical events and one thing that they asked me to do a little bit of a spoiler one thing that they asked him i think it was marcus or someone was somebody asked dan why he's so obsessed with context and that simple question spun into a conversation that i was like whoa this it went in in directions I didn't anticipate, but it was awesome. It was incredible. And it got me thinking about the topic of today. So the reason I thought it was so complicated and interesting,

and I'm totally paraphrasing what his point was on this and putting my own spin on it. He's basically saying that, look, if you have all the context on any event that goes on, it would never end. It would never end. Like one thing against another, it would against another. So you have to be like, even in the context of like history, you have to be an editor in a way because you have like had the cutoff point of like and then

we start here because otherwise it would just be like it would be forever long and you know I actually really really enjoyed that because it made me think about politics in particular where I was like if you actually go far enough back with people's political beliefs and their families and everything it's like you can see that we're all like kind of the same we're not actually terrible human beings but that's aside it got me it got me going in that direction but I started thinking about that within the context of, like, our discussions here. And so what I looked up was the most trending topic in 2023, which is AI. And I was like, I wonder what is it in the context of everything of, like, how we ended up at chat GPT and board.

And where history kind of starts that is with a guy named Luigi Gabani, who saw frog legs hanging in the local market from copper hooks. And it would start twitching. And this was in 1791. So I was like the first guy that was like electricity is the thing that's running through our system that's making us. And then that segwayed into that segueway into cybernetics, which is a field that advanced control of electricity through networks, then to information theory, which goes into storage of that information, that Alan Turing's theory on computation and all that kind of culminated with this kind of concept of like mechanical brain, which is AI. Like that's like a brief example of like context, like going so far back sometimes that it almost. even makes sense. Like we're starting with this guy Luigi in Bologna looking at frog like switching and then we end it like the understanding of like AI and chat GPT. So anyways,

I just want to put that as like a little bit of an aside, but I want to go through another historical event that's kind of recent and people know a lot about it, but there's probably things that people don't know about it. So I'm going to go into the context of why this thing, this historical event actually ended up happening. Um, but before you start my, I want to let everyone know that my number one, um, strength finder context. What strength finder? What's strength finder?

It's like a thing where you like do a quiz and you get like five top of your top strengths. Mine is context. Interesting. Okay. Cool. Good. So what I'm going to be discussing is the 2008 financial collapse.

Ooh, that's exciting. Because it's kind of true prime. It's kind of history and there's a lot of factors that played into it. And I literally just watched margin call by accident last night and I got obsessed with it again. Have you seen it before? Amazing. I don't think so. Zachary Quintos in it.

Jeremy Irons is the boss. Oh, I love Jeremy. No, I've seen the one, what's the other one? Big Short. About the housing crisis. Yes, I've seen the big short. So I'm going to go into the Great Recession itself very briefly. Again, I think that people mostly understand what happened.

So I'll just frame it this way. Historically, housing prices have always gone up. And the appreciation rate of a home over the course of 7 at 10 years, for example, nationally is around 34%. So it's always a good, no, not always, obviously. It's mostly a good investment. So the reason- Consistently a good investment for a long time. Exactly.

And the reason they go up is because there's always more people who want homes than there are homes available on the market or people who are credit worthy enough to acquire homes. And so the supply and demand side, it's always like they're there for that kind of growth. And investors wanted to put their money in the safest place possible. So banks started creating mortgage-backed securities to sell these mortgages at a more profitable rate, given that they were a safe bet. So that's kind of like the initial start of all this. But the more of these mortgage-back securities banks started issuing, the more they needed

to issue to keep growing. And so they dropped their requirements on credit worthiness to bring in a different class of folks to buy homes. And these were called MBSs, mortgage-backed securities, and these were usually at rates that there were like teaser rates or called adjustable rate mortgages. And so they would go into like a low, low interest rate, and then the interest would adjust, and then these people could not afford it. And because they were not super financially savvy, they didn't totally understand what was going to happen anyways.

And so what ended up happening is that these people would get foreclosed on, they'd go into default, and then the supply demand ratio of mortgages and homes and people buying homes totally flipped. And so people were now underwater on their homes. All those safe bets that people made on mortgage-backed securities went away. basically that was those are just to it it makes sense right like it's you know it's not like it's something complicated i've assumed right right no no no that's probably makes sense yeah yeah there's a lot more to it there's another concept there called them credit default swath which is basically insurance taken on these mortgage back securities that also tank like a lot of horrible

shit was kind of going on there but anyways so that's the gist where we landed in 2008 i'm going to go far back enough to hopefully provide the appropriate historical context context for Dan Carlin and how we kind of landed here. And so this stuff is so crazy because you see, you see how it kind of plays out across like the political spectrum and you're like, okay, it's always been like this. Like there is, it's all uniform. So I'm going to start with Jimmy Carter. So in March of 1980, Jimmy Carter signed into law the depository institutions deregulation

and monetary control act of 1980, which is abbreviated as D-I-D-MCA. Great name. Okay. And not too long. Perfect. Yeah. Like there were non-marketers who came up with this. So this bill had a ton of things in it and it's all like really, really dry and boring, so I'm

not really going into it. But the main part of it is that it helped what's known as savings and loan institutions become more competitive in the banking industry. So are you familiar with what to say? I didn't know what this was. Do you know what these are? Is it like a more local bank? But maybe not.

It's a type of bank. It's a thrift bank is what they originally were called in like the 1930s, which is just a place to put savings in. That's it. Like that was their job. And so back in the day, this was just for that. You could get some personal loans here or there. But from a regulatory perspective,

they're really boxed in terms of what they could do and how they could possibly make money. And as a result, when interest rates would go up, depositors would withdraw their cash to put them into, other investment vehicles that would earn more interest than a savings account right so when carter passed this law it basically opened up an opportunity that provided for those the amount of deregulation that you're going to see the upstream effects of in 2008 because it opened the doors to savings and loan associations to start um in such allowing people to take out traditional mortgages but when we will consider today as a mortgage it would allow them to do that it gets that on its own is irrelevant

Well, it starts the process, but it's somewhat irrelevant. Then in 1982, our old friend Ronald Reagan signed a bill called the Garnes St. Germain Depository Institution Act. They need marketing specialists on these names. He signed this thing into law. And what this allowed financial institutions to do was to give them adjustable rate mortgages, arms, essentially. So the way an arm works is that the interest. rate on the mortgage fluctuates with the federally set interest rate. So for example, during COVID, the Trump administration, the feds there were, they readjusted the, they adjusted down

the interest rate. So for example, I think the interest rate was like 2.5% or something. It was something crazy, like 2.75% interest. It was like crazy cheap money back then. And I think now it's somewhere around 7%, like maybe 7.3% or somewhere around there. But you're, but you're locked into yours right i'm locked in yeah but if you had an adjustable one it would be seven yeah think about how much money that is because if you look at your mortgage the first like 15 years your mortgage is basically just all paying interest and so when that register adjust 2.2.5% is 7% on you're never going to catch up yeah you'll never catch up and so and but this was the start of it ron ragan saying this launch in 1982 was kind of the start

of that so it's so wait wait wait Okay. So in, um, losing on Instagram where I'm obviously like this pops off my feet every once in a while where it's like, oh, is something terrible happening? Oh, guess what's fault it is? Do you do too, too. Ronald Reagan. They could like go back to seeing it. It's all brand's fault. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this, this thing is weirdly deceptive. I wrote down here that, um, to me, this was probably the biggest factor in this because if you look at who who's taking out mortgages that they ultimately will not be able to to afford the banks aren't really regulating it's going to feel that don't understand this

shit but they're not going to understand what federally set prime interest rates look like and where they fall along that and so they don't understand that like a 2% swing one way or the other on your mortgage on a 300,000 or 400,000 on house to get a shit a lot of money and so and so in my mind I'm like or like or they just don't yeah yeah they just like don't know they don't even understand it but like they don't think about it because they can finally afford exactly exactly that yeah and one thing so I read a CNN article that was published in 2007 and what that was right before interest rates were about to reset and what it was talking about was it was it was calling out what was about

to happen it was like hey like interest rates are about to reset like this is gonna have a dramatic impact because 80% of those mortgages were ARMs arms that just rate mortgages and so it was a huge issue so the article that I read went through a hypothetical that said that if you bought a house for $200,000 in 2005, which is when all this was going on, your monthly payments would be about $9.55 per month. When the loan resets, it'll be $1,331 a month, a 39% increase in your mortgage. And again, 80% of these were adjustable rate mortgages. And so that was a big part of it.

And again, to your point, we can kind of track everything back to Rombrich, which is incredible. 1% of that kind of an impact on things. And to me, the ARM is like the most deceptive side of this. There's a grosser part of this we're going to get into here in a moment. But that's the most susceptible part because it is taking advantage of people's inability to totally understand what they're signing up for. Is that what was his reason to do it? Oh, this.

All that kind of boils down. Rich get richer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It all boils down to like the lobbies, the banking lobbies because this is, this is like an attractive thing to a bank because you can think about that how cool would that be if I

could sell you something today for like nothing because you'll buy because it's nothing and then it's all upside on the on the back half because i can just adjust their interest rate and then you have to pay me a show a little money like you owe me more yeah yeah um and then we get to nineteen nine which is when bill clinton signed into law the gram leech billy act which allowed this this one's the most most fucked up one so this allowed consumer banks like regular depositor banks to issue home loans and then also operate as a financial institution on the back end so think if your credit union could take part in the same financial activity as Goldman Sachs that's what this is the reason i wrote this is like the most messed up part of this is that if i'm the bank that is issuing

you that mortgage and also the bank that is selling that mortgage on the back end after you close then I'm on both sides of that transaction, which means that I have no incentive in operating in any sort of like, like, I'm always going to make money on both sides of the transaction. So I don't really care if you're qualified for this mortgage because who cares? I'll make my money on the back end when we when we sell the mobile, the mortgage back securities. And so that was the biggest one. This was a repeal of what's called Glass Stegel. So in 1933, this bill called Glass Stegel was enacted into law. And what that was done, that wasn't specifically to break up the consumer side of banks from the investment side of banks.

And then Bill Klan just signed this thing and it's gone. It's gone. Yeah. And then later on after this happened, Dodd-Frank was signing the law that put more protections around this. And even that, now Barney Frank is trying to get that repealed. So I don't know what's going on there. But that's kind of- Why are Frank is still alive?

Yeah, he's still alive. I'm shocked. He's still alive. And so there is a daily episode where we're playing a lot of podcasts today. So the Daily is the New York Times podcast. And that's like kind of how I start right mornings most mornings is just listening to what they have to say. And they did an episode about a month and a half ago on Dodd Frank. And they interviewed Barney Frank, who is now, he was one of the main opponents.

Like we need to like punish these financial institutions and all that stuff. And he now is an advisor for a bank and is trying to get Dodd Frank repealed. So he's lobbying and advocating to Congress to get the bill that has his name on it repealed. So there we go. Government as usual. Well, he's young. He's a young, 83. He's a young, spry, 83 years old.

And so now I'm going to get to like the probably what seems like the least likely reason for why this ended up happening, 9-11. Is that weird, right? Okay. No, go ahead. I'm not surprised. So I gave the, so the reason the Trump administration reduced interest rates to two and a half percent, like I mentioned earlier, is because they were trying to drive economic activity when COVID hit. When COVID hit, we was scared, every was sitting at home. Nobody wanted to go out and buy things.

And the way you simulate the economy is you lower interest rates. People are like, oh, cheap money. I'm just going to go spend. Then things change. And now, again, like we're at 7.5%. So similar to what happened during COVID, the Bush administration did exactly that during 9-11. And so, you know, obviously the entire country was gripped with fear and transactions were really flowing and all the terrible things that came out of, came out of 9-11 happened. I didn't know this.

When 9-11 hit, the way Bush, the administration tried to similarly the economy, they dropped interest rates to 1%, which is, which I think I couldn't get the exact number on this. But from what I could see historical records, you know, the charts show like the 30-year rates. And it was like right after 9-11, it just like dropped to the ground. And there was nothing that was lower than that. And so I think that that is the lowest interest rate the government has ever issued in the history of the U.S. was really interesting. Wow. Wait.

I'm sorry. I'm about to go to Dallas on 9-11. And I hate having to say it over and over again because you're like, oh, yeah, we have these meetings on the 11th and whatever. But then I just was thinking about, remember the best September 11th ever where we went to see it in the movie theater? Oh, yeah. With Jay, right? And I was like, yeah, I was like, this is the best September 11th because we went and got burgers at that one place

and then we went and saw it. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah, man. I think that theater got sold, right? Quentin Tarantino bought it. I don't know, but I know it used to be like the Hollywood of Babylon. There's a whole bunch of stuff.

Like that specific part of land is really interesting. Yeah. No, no. He, I think he might have bought most police three. That was the Egyptian. We saw the Egyptian. Yes. I don't think, I can't remember who about that or not.

But that was a fun. That was a fun day. So, but basically, so in 2000, when 2001, when 9-11 happened, until 2003, interest rates stayed at 1%. And so obviously, everybody was buying. So there was a huge bubble. There was a huge spike in the supply demand side of things in terms of people going out and trying to buy a house. And that resulted in these financial institutions saying we need to, we need more people buying and so we're going to offer these adjustable rate mortgages and lower our standards there was i read these stories about how um how they didn't even look up people's jobs they didn't confirm employment they nothing because there was so much money in reselling these things that like they just didn't care and so they expected them to fail yeah because because because that's the part of it is like in everybody's mind they're like who gives a shit if If they don't pay, it doesn't matter because the house price is going to go up anyways and we'll just go ahead and sell that property, right?

Like we don't, who cares? We're foreclosed on to sell the property, but it doesn't work that way because if there's so much property in the market, then the price and the value of that property is, it's underwater. You're never going to recoup your investment in them. So that was kind of like the historical piece of this. And then it made me think of what upstream impacts were there. to what ended up happening.

Taylor, do you remember what else was going on in 2007 and 2008? I graduated from my master's degree in 2007. Did that have a global impact? That did not have a global impact. 2007, 2008 is when the presidential campaign of Barack Obama and John McCain was running. Oh, wait, right, right, right. And that little boondoggle. And it's worth noting that I went through, I did a lot of research

in terms of like what was going on back things they don't remember i mean i was active in politics and stuff but i wasn't like working in it and so back in the day john mccain's claim to fame had nothing to do with economics had to do with foreign policy like he was a foreign policy guy it had nothing to do with his acumen in economics and so there was a lot of things that happened on that campaign that made obama seem like super qualified to handle like an economic downturn so for For example, there was one interview I saw of John McCain being asked by a reporter how many homes he owns. And he literally tells the reporter, he goes, I'm going to have to have my staff get back to you with an answer to that. The answer back then was seven. They own seven

homes together. And Obama released a political ad called seven, just talking about how out of touch McCain was with the rest of the country. Well, one in 200 Americans was being foreclosed on at that time. And this guy was like, I don't know how many homes I own. The other thing that he did was he was in Florida doing like a campaign stop when he said that the fundamentals of the economy are strong the day Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy. I remember that day because I worked in finance that day. I worked in a hedge fund during this time. Yeah, yeah, I was in New York. I worked at a hedge fund. I knew people at Lehman and then all of a sudden all of our Lehman meetings were canceled and it was like we're fucked. What was that like? Did you keep working?

I did, but things were very different. Well, very different in that. We used to go to the Bahamas every year and then we stopped. You know, like, we used to, like, kind of spend with this, like, reckless abandon that, you, my boss was like, what do you mean? I can't fly first class to Asia anymore. And I was like, it's a $20,000 difference between a first class and a business class ticket. Can you justify that? And he was like, ugh.

And then we'd made him fly business class. You know, like, we were spending, like, just stupid amounts of money. And then we stopped. was it was it man you've been even part of so much of this stuff because you were there during 9-11 you were there when this happened too in my mind i was like there's like earth-shifting moments and those were two of them we worked with lemmon brothers you worked with um bear stearns was gone like just like people that we knew were just gone in like a day how long did you keep working did you stay in the finance sector yeah i stayed there till i left furnation builders i said a couple more

years. Wow. Okay. Yeah, wild, wild. But that was kind of the impetus of this, the impetus of what ended up happening to was that he, so Bush was the president back then. The Republicans were in power. And so generally speaking, when your party is a party in power, when things are really, really bad, you don't get elected. And so I looked up the old polling results for the 2008 election. McCain went from 37% negative media coverage, according to the Pew Research Foundation to 53% negative the day Lehman Brothers collapsed and then 70% by the time the second debate came around. And the reason was almost exclusively the economy. He just seemed out of touch. He seemed like his party was the one that was responsible for this. And so maybe

think of like, okay, so you have Jimmy Carter signing this law in 1979. It worked all the way up to this financial collapse in 2008. And then what ends up happening if this didn't have, if he didn't have that all all that historical context building up to this would Obama have been elected president? Probably not. Probably not because he was like a young whippersnapper. Like he was, you know, only two years in the Senate before you ran the president. Like you have McCain was like obviously quality. And if we didn't have Obama, did we have Trump? Like there's so many things that like just stack on top of each other.

Who did we talk about or I talked about the guy messing up and then Obama got elected? Because like Jack Ryan was the guy who's brother to the sex. club. I got to talk of something similar to that, but there's that couple things. One, I would like to officially repeal the 22nd Amendment because I want Obama to be president again because I love him. I would be okay with that. Let's just bring that man back. We need him. Also, do you remember when Mitt Romney was campaigning and like a kid was like bought some ice cream or something and Mitt Romney was like, oh, let me pay buy your ice cream for you, but he only had hundreds in his wallet? That's awesome. What a baller. And he like couldn't give him.

the kid like a dollar you know he was like he was like oh he tried about like bar chocolate or something from a kid he was like oh we only have hundreds of my wallet which is hilarious and like very out of touch and then a third thing is um we've been passing by um the trump tower a couple times it's like right kind of where we are and my husband used to work on the apprentice did you know that and he knew trump um he he used to do like camera work on the apprentice and he had like you know been around trump before and we're talking about like what if he had like like if you go back in time, you know, and stop this person for being president. Juan would like be in jail, but he'd be like, I saved the world.

People would be like, what was wrong with you? You just like did not save the world. He'd be like, yes, I did. He'd be like, Taylor, because like we wouldn't have been together. He wouldn't have had kids. I was like, but he would have saved the world. In you, Trump? What would that look like?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, she met him. Wow. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. What time Trump asked him to come. No, I'm sorry.

Oh, Trump asked him to come back to the office in his limo and Juan said, who knows what would have happened he wanted why did he want Juan to come back to it I don't know it was like because he had to go back with the equipment or something but he was just like you come with me mom was like no whatever one thinks that he was going to get no no I don't know exactly assaulted um weird guy he's definitely a weird guy and we're definitely gonna have a repeat of the 2016 or no the 2020 election in 24 it feels like um But going back to the true crime side of this, did you know that, Taylor? One person actually went to jail for the 2008 collapse.

Did you know this? No, who was it? This poor bastard. His name is Kareem, Sarah Gelden. He is the only person to have served a jail term for his role in this. Apparently, at the time, he worked for credit Swiss, and he falsified records, basically, like, overvaluing the prices of mortgage-backed securities, just to make, like, more profit off of them.

And he ended up being sentenced to 30-month in prison and having to pay back credit Swiss, $25 million. This guy made $7 million per year in 2008. Wow. Like, what are we doing with our lives? That's incredible. I mean, we're not going to go to jail, I don't think. We're not going to go to jail, but we could also be doing better.

But, yeah, so that's, it's kind of where I ended things. Because, you know, again, if you wanted to, you could keep tying this. thread further and further back. I ended researching the 1966 savings and loan crisis because that was also like a part of this is like this the failings, the failure of all these savings loan institutions because they couldn't compete, which led to the Jimmy Carter. It's just thing on top of thing on top of thing. And the end result is that a parent is a capitalist country and the number one variation of capitalism in this country right now at the very least has to do with financial instruments and investment institutions. And so,

There's a lot of reasons why these things are not regulated and we're constantly getting deregulated because that's what we want, apparently. So, TBD, I guess. What do you think's next? I don't know what the bubble is going to look like. Because we already had a tech bubble. We had a housing bubble. I don't know. I don't know what's coming.

But there's going to be something. In the movie Margin' call, Jeremy Iron's character was like the main CEO of this financial institution. He lists every financial collapse. And it's like just, it's like every decade to like 15 years, like something hits. And, you know, we're kind of, we're kind of due for one. Which it feels like we're in the middle of anyways. It feels like the economy is pretty shitty right now. Like every week we read about tech layoffs, for example.

And so I don't know. Maybe we are in it. But TVD, I guess. yeah it's like a constant ebb and flow but it's interesting that people make decisions and have policies that are like specifically to fuck people over yeah i mean that is the most obvious transparent thing of like the rich eating the whore is you look at what these people make like this guy's making seven million dollars a year issuing these shitty fucking mortgages that he knows that these people can't pay but he knows they're desperate for house and so they'll they'll do it

And that is like the most predatory thing. Yeah. And they don't care because they're like, it doesn't matter if you default. Like if you foreclose, the models tell us that we can just sell your property and recoup everything anyway. It's, I don't know. It's really gross. Yeah. It's so gross.

You're like a real person who's like asked leave their house. It's terrible. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my story for today. I do highly recommend my margin call. It's, it's, if you want, if you have a YouTube. look it up who doesn't um it's actually free on youtube that's how i started watching i was like

scrolling youtube and it was like recommended as a movie to me and it was free and i was like let's watch it and it's how you ex how you accidentally watched it was yeah yeah it's with kevin spacey it's with jeremy irons uh zach quinto um it's really really good it's very moody it's essentially the gist of it is that it is the 24 hours before the collapse hits and this one financial institution who's named they don't reveal discovers what's about to happen with like basically most of their assets and yeah it was it was shady and crooked and shows how the financial system works which is not great yeah it's not great but that's my story today sorry for making this a more stressful than usual call with luna being a psychopath the reason

is that mrs fars and her dog are out in that room and i'm in here and i need to keep the doors closed and she gets crazy because she can't get to me. But if she got to me, she'd want to get to the dog. And so anyways, that's where all the barking comes from. So apologies, everyone. No problem. Sweet. I'll go ahead. Is there any lesser mail or anything?

There is. Did you see that the, I guess you're not getting the mail yet, huh? I think you have to do something in your, we need to look at our settings. Nadine emailed again, and she is still listening up in Canada and had some positive things to say about last week's episode about the catholic church some stuff that like you know people maybe are don't want to say out loud but they heard me say it and i'm excited about that so what was that she had some ideas to all forward it to no no just that just that like it's hard to be angry out loud about some of these things but it's nice to hear it nice yeah and my friend ben said um my friend ben said baller take down of the catholic church as well

we showed them uh yeah i don't know why i'm not seeing i was getting them briefly and now i guess i'm not getting them but yeah i love to read that um but yes please write in if you know us or if you don't know us through the philpod at gmail.com when we're rich and famous and everything at doom develop us and we also have a thing on instagram if you share our Instagram post about our stickers i'll mail you one so just share i'll mail you one wait are you to mail me the stickers i did you didn't get them yet check your Have you checked your mailbox? I'll go check my mailbox.

If I had the stickers, I'm going to go to the coffee shops today and start hustling. I'm sure they're there. Just check the mailbox. Okay, I'm going to go check. Sweet. I'll go ahead and cut this off, Taylor, and restart in a moment. Bye, all. Thank you.