Doomed to Fail - Ep 10: The Kennedys and OJ - cursed but in different ways

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

It’s our 10th Episode!!! We are stoked; thank you for your support! We decided to finally cover the stories in our theme song!Farz tells the incredible story of OJ Simpson. There’s stuff in here that even Taylor didn’t know! It’s a wild ride from the top of your game to accused murderer to memorabilia stealer to… just an old guy in Florida? You would never have guessed this if you knew OJ in the 70s.Taylor tried to do Jackie and JFK, but, we’ve all heard that. So, she went into the “Kennedy Curse” We don’t believe in curses, but we DO believe that rich people do stupid shit. Like flying their own airplanes, playing Ski Football, giving their children lobotomies, and lots of driving the under the influence with no consequences.Farz was visiting his fam in Dallas so his sound isn’t the best and we talk over each other a lot. We’re sorry. Follow us on Instagram & Facebook!  @doomedtofailpodhttps://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod The House of KennedyImages of the Kennedys in happier times via the public domainJFK Jr. on People from ABC News OJ via public domainSimpson family E NewsOJ and Nicole from TodayRon Goldman - a 90s stud - via NBC News  Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In a matter of the people of the state of California, first is Hortonthall James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Welcome to Doom to Fail, the podcast where me and Taylor seemingly keep missing each other in Dallas. I'm Fars. I'm joined here by Taylor. Hi, Taylor. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm tired. I just got to Dallas.

Oh, God, I'm tired. And I missed you by a day. But here we are. But not on purpose. I was trying to get out Thursday night and super annoyed my plane got canceled really late. So luckily I have a friend that lives pretty close to the airport. So I went and stayed with her. I just got to her house at midnight and then like left on an airman.

mattress and then left at five to go back to the airport and I was on standby for an eight o'clock flight back to California and luckily I got on it otherwise I would have been there like the rest of the day that's awful that's so bad yeah I'm happy to be home yeah that's good to hear um we are going to be doing this is our 10th episode which is a special 10th episode for us I'm kind of proud of us for getting this far um and making I am too it's very exciting yeah we should do for our 10th episode. Do you want to tell folks what that is? Yeah, I thought to celebrate, and it's so funny because I feel like a lot of podcasts when they get to the like 100th episode, they have a party, and I'm like, oh my God,

they feel so far away. But we're here at number 10. And I thought that we should do the relationships that are in our theme song. Fars's brother made it for us, and it has two pretty famous stories in it. So we thought we'd head over to those. Love it. you're going first i'm going first what let's start with your drink okay i'm going to try to do this my drink is a sam adams because it's a nice boston lagga how do you boston lagga just nail that accent that's how the kennedy shock boston lagga so i don't have that all i have is this stone ipas i'm going to drink that right now but um sounds so good

hold let me see my parents but i only have one beer i think oh no i have bud light because whenever my dad visits he leaves a trail of but lights but light lines comes to rest i can always have a bedlight no just regular ones oh man there's no beer okay so much for that my drink is a screwdriver because i am covering lorenthal james simpson and i feel like i feel like if you're married to him you got to be drunk on screwdrivers. You got to pour some vodka in the OJ to maintain that marriage for any bit of time. That's hilarious. I love it. It's real good. Also, I'm totally aware that my audio quality is going backwards this week, and it is just because I'm traveling.

That's okay. Yeah. So let's go ahead and dive right in. So I'm going to start with my side of the true, true crime side of things with OJ Simpson. I'll start by saying that this story has been covered to death. But in researching this episode, so many things came up that I just forgotten about or never really knew. Some of our listeners, like ourselves, were old enough to remember watching the white bronco chase. If that is you, then you already probably know the broad strokes of what happened here, but we're going to go into it anyways. If you're too young to remember, in addition to this podcast, I would recommend checking out the People versus O.J. Simpson on Netflix. Taylor, have you seen that? I have. It's up by the American,

it's an American crime story, right? Or is it in the documentary? This is not the documentary. This one's the 10-part series. That really just starts with the murders and ends with the verdict. He would be getting juniors in it. He does an incredible job as OJ. And if you remember, John Travolta plays Robert slash Bob Shapiro. I do remember that. Very And Sarah Paulson is in it too. She's the other lawyer. She's great. Marsha Clark. Yeah. She's so good.

So obviously this is, you know, it is sad, spoiler. Two people lost our lives. Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman were the two victims and obviously it's a tragedy and all that. But the one thing I would say is that this is going to sound really weird. But when I started researching this, I thought of Rambo for some reason. for some reason and the reason what i think i was really focused on there was that there's some things historically that produce amazing stuff as a result of it so for example i was thinking about i started going on this path i think about vietnam and how rambo the character is really a byproduct like it wouldn't exist but for vietnam and i started researching what are some other

things that were a byproduct of that war and hendricks zappa dylan All of these amazing iconic musicians were completely influenced by that war. Can I bring a hot take? Yeah. Bob Dylan is terrible. His song lyrics are like a five-year-old rhythm. Like, it's like he rhymes words like bird, nerd, and then like, that's it. He's like not, it's really, really bad.

And I saw him in person like 15 years ago and even then he was too old to be performing. and it was just like... Oh, geez. I believe it. I'm not impressed. Yeah, I'm not like a fanboy of Bob Dylan. I will argue that Hendrix is amazing, but you didn't respond to him, so we don't have to get into it.

I said nothing about that, yeah. Circling back the topic of today within this event, I went on Amazon, and I looked up the books category and searched for O.J. Simpson. There were 16 books per page result, returned by Amazon, and there were 39 pages. Oh my gosh, she was at 16. I was like, there has to be more than 16, and there's like, also more than 16. Oh, my God. 624 books on Amazon right now that you can read about the OJ Simpson trial. That doesn't include this is what I feel like, yeah, go ahead. No, I'm going to say like, this is what I feel like when

people are like, oh, you're starting a podcast, everyone has a podcast. I'm like, yeah, everyone also has a book about o j simpson yeah so this does not include anthologies it just include o j simpson in it like spouse killer like all that no of that other true crime stuff that's not included in this this is literally just about the trial and actually every character that we're going to discuss here has written at least one book on it including the prosecutors the attorney all of them and then in addition to that i went found there were 20 songs written that referenced the killings. There are five, like, shitty movies that came out immediately after this case became a thing,

not including the Netflix series I just mentioned, or the three movies that O.J. Simpson himself started in the TV prank show that he produced. So, like, there's a ton of content that came out of this case. One thing I read that isn't here that I didn't list here, but it is 100% believe it, is that the night of the murder, somebody already started trying to sell the book rights to a publisher. The actual night that they found out that this happened, somebody tried to actually capitalize on it. Fuck yeah. Good for that person. I know. Good for them too, yeah.

Yeah. And one thing we can thank this case on is giving us the Kardashian family. Really, I'm not a Kardashian. I don't really care. Sure, happy for them. They're doing great. they're doing their own thing, whatever. I'm sure people have feelings about it. But Tim's, Kim Kardashian's dad, his father, Rob, was one of OJ's defense attorneys and a really, really close friend of his. We'll get into how close they actually ended up being.

And he was also, like, hilariously played by David Schwimmer in the Netflix series. He just always, I don't know what it is about David Schwimmer, but he just always looks confused. He played him. It was amazing. Yeah. You felt so bad for that man.

Who, Rob? Yeah. Yeah. He was just so sad. He just like, this is my best friend. He couldn't have killed someone. And then he was like, I'm sure they intentionally did this, but they had him like with his kids and being like, it's more important to be a good person than to be rich. And you know, of course, like after he died, his family, like, did their thing.

So it's funny. Don't you feel like that was editorialized just to like poke fun of the Kardashian family? Oh, totally was. Okay. But it was hilarious. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

So long story short is that there are millions of cultural touchstone. that come out of this event. We're going to just start by getting into the main characters here. Taylor, curious to know your take on this. So you're, you would have been of an age. You watched this, right? Like you, I'm assuming you kept up with this. Okay.

Yeah, for sure. Was O.J. Simpson a name you would recognize before this happened? I only not as like anything else. And I don't know, I don't know if it's before or after birth. There's this movie that we used to watch when I was little with a next. Funitello from the Mickey Mouse Club where she's older and it's called Back to the Beach. And it's like her and her family, Lori Loughlin is in it. It's like very bizarre. But I used to watch all the time with my family and in that movie, they're at the airport and they see OJ Simpson

and they say, is that O'Dia Simpson? But then they see he like runs and trips over a bunch of suitcases and they're like, oh no, it can't be. It actually sounds familiar. I don't know. It's like a totally random cultural point. but um so i might have known like of him because of that or that but like not like a lot like we weren't like bill's fans so yeah i might have been too young but the name oj simpson meant absolutely nothing to me before this all happened but apparently i mean people treated this guy like uh messiah almost there's a funny story that is debunk now about how james cameron originally cast oj as the terminator in the movies. Arnold Schwarzenegger has said that O.J. wasn't believable as a killing machine,

so they recast the role for him. All this isn't true. So James Cameron actually has come out. It was relatively recently. I read an article that James Cameron came out and said, no, this was literally just one phone call, some executive who was on the production company side of things, called James Cameron and said, hey, we recommend you cast OJ in this role. Wasn't true. But obviously, his name was big enough to where it's being battered around in Hollywood Hallways to the likes of a James Cameron. Right. So there's, he was like a cultural phenomenon. Yeah. Yeah. He was like one of the first football like superstars. Because I feel like before there's like a lot of terrible stories about men who were like in football at the 60s who didn't get paid a lot in the NFL and now have terrible brain diseases or brain injuries. And people are like, oh, but you were in the NFL. They're like it wasn't like that. It wasn't like I was a superstar. I always endorsements. It was like kind of like a regular job. You know. Yeah.

So he didn't get paid this extraordinary amount. So he was like one of the first, I think he did all those Hertz endorsements, right? The Hertz cars. He was just like, I think maybe the first really, really, really famous one, especially the first black one, I think, like as a black man being super Uber famous. You are nailing everything here. That is a really good encapsulation. Again, I wasn't aware, no, no, I wasn't aware of any, like, I'm going to get in

to it but like that was actually a really good way to phrase it so going back to the characters the main characters of the story we have ornthal james simpson oj himself who was a former professional football player and an actor we have nicole brown simpson um she has no work history to speak of really her and oj met when she was a waitress at 18 years old and we have ronald lyell goldman who was a waiter who had the misfortune of being friends with Nicole or having some sort of relationship with her like i don't i don't we don't know but whatever doesn't matter right yeah i agree i'll start by saying i love football but america's hero worship of football is kind of insane there is no doubt oj was a phenomenal athlete but this guy's

hero status got him into and out of so many things that are completely closed off to normal human beings it's i mean think about it's literally the reason why we know his name i mean murdering spouses is nothing new and yet this guy has been dominating the public consciousness for almost 30 years now i'm going to go i'm going to list off oj's achievements not because they're meaningful to me or probably really the listeners either but it helps me a picture of just how respected this guy was at that time these are just bullet points i'm going to rattle off he played for USC when and when he graduated they retired his jersey for context this actually only happened six times so it's only six players including oj in trojan history

ever had their numbers retired he won all-american twice in college he won the heisman trophy he was basically in every what is essentially now the pro bowl of his era back then was called the all-time teams he had the most touchdowns in 1975 the most rushing touchdowns in 73 and 75 the most rushing yards for four seasons he won the offensive player of the year three times The Associated Press named him athlete of the year in 1973. Once they started actually having Pro Bowls and naming it that, he played in five of them. He won offensive player of the year in 73. And he won the NFL most valuable player in 73 as well.

What a year. It felt like they were just inventing awards to give to this guy, but he actually was that exceptional. his players like his player stats are way too boring to go into again tons of your worship here but if you want to you can go look on his wikipedia page and somebody has meticulously gone through every year everything he did every game he played and noted all but it i mean even if you don't get to the murders it's like 50 pages of content just by going off of that stuff i would say that every publication i looked at listed him on the top 50 best players in the history of football So Bleacher Report, which is probably one of the more respected, you know, content creators on the on the sports front, actually has enlisted number 16 all time, which is actually ahead of Tom Brady. That's the status of person that we're talking about here. I don't know why I feel, I said good to that, but like I feel like I feel equally unimpressed with Tom Brady as I do with OJSubsid, even though he has not killed anyone, and I hope he never does. I think, I think you're just over Boston and New England people after your recent. research this week.

For real. So that's fair. You did really good on that. That's enough of his NFL stats. OJ always also had a passion for acting. He actually started doing bit parts and shows while he was still in college at USC. His most famous roles were obviously the naked gun movies, which are amazing. People should go watch those.

He also hosted SNL. He was a commentator for the NFL on NBC. And as you had actually mentioned earlier, he was also a spokesperson for Hertz, the rental car company. OCH was actually kind of shrewd when it comes to business. He knew, like exactly what you just said, Taylor. He knew he had the it factor that it evaded black athletes for most of sports history. White America saw OJ as just this non-threatening, very affable, good-looking, charming guy. Ironically, he also had, he never had scandals. And like I said before, he literally won every single war that existed. Totally.

So he had a ton of endorsement deals. He had allocated resources from his football, you know, time there he was making money doing football to buying hotels, buying restaurants outside of football. He was making about $1 million per year, which converted to today's money about $2.1 million. That's away from football. That is literally just endorsements, side hustle businesses that he had. Like I said, OJ and Nicole met and started dating when she was 18, and he was actually still married to a woman named Marguerite,

whom she had three kids with two years later in 1979 oj marguerite divorced and he would eventually marry Nicole in 1985 so by my count that puts Nicole at 26 and him at 37 years old when they get married yeah so at this point he'd retired by the way at this point he'd retired so at this point by telling he marries Nicole he's lived a complete life i mean everything he just listed off that he did that happened five years before this marriage came about he marries Nicole and as he's as she's involved in his life he is ramping up to the next round of being this successful actor spokesperson multiple business owner all the rest of it oh my imagine if we would have played like thimpson instead of madden

wait played oj yeah imagine if like he had been madden and like made the game and like had not done anything bad like he could have just like done so many more things i thought about that many times because the way this guy's life derails after this case we'll get into that talk about like complete 180 right from the most actual charming non-offensive non-scaneled person to like anyways we know who he is now right like we always say we're the only podcast advocating not to kill your family and things nothing good happens nothing you turn to oj yeah yeah so i don't know OJ or Nicole are in comparison to one another but still I mean I would be intimidated by his success like never mind a 26 year old I mean think about this guy's like going to he knows everybody

who's everybody who's rich famous powerful in Hollywood knows your husband and like is very very closer wants him to like them that's the status that we're talking about here that's the power dynamic we always talk about yeah yeah and again this one goes so much deeper so I wrote here that yeah sure there's the power dynamic that we all always talk about, 11 year age difference, wealth, so on, all the other stuff, but it's also different because there's a cultural dynamic at play here. If you're Nicole, you don't just have a husband in O.J. Simpson, you have a national hero, like, literally Mr. All-American, like, who will ever care about the faults that you have with this person, whether they're abusive

or not? Yeah. How could you have any issues with your marriage? Right. He's untouchable. Yeah. Yeah. They're married in 85. They have two kids together, which we never talk about. Thankfully, like, I'm researching this. You never hear about the kids, ever. There's one part of the story where you hear about the kids, and they literally had to do when the police called OJ to tell him that Nicole was dead,

and you're just like, how are the kids? That's the only time they really come up. So kudos to the media for a change for not being horrible about this situation with them. But poor kids, right? Yeah, poor babies. there were obviously claims of spousal abuse one claim in 1989 actually went to court in total there were 62 incidences of abuse of which Nicole actually only reported eight mostly this was because she was a hundred percent financially dependent on oj part of their marriage included a

prenuptial agreement part of that prenuptial agreement included a stipulation that said that she's like legally not allowed to take on employment she was a hundred percent dependent on OJ. That's part of why they think that she never, I mean, again, only one of those one of those situations actually went to trial. There were many stories that were told about. I mean, this was a classic, I fell on the doorknob story, right? So she always made excuses for him. Are you going to talk about the 911 calls? Have you heard them from her? I have heard the 911 calls, but I didn't actually include them in this outline. Do you want to talk about them? Well, just the one that I heard is he was like beating her up and,

she was calling the police and she'd called them probably several times and she, like, told them her address and they were like, she was like, my husband, like, he's hitting me and they were like, who's your husband? And she was like, you know who it is. It's O.J. Simpson. You know, she was very like, you know, you know, stop trying to like make me say it. She's like, you know, he's not on, like, stop making him untouchable. Like, you know who it is. You know, so it sounds like she, I mean, I'm sure that there were, like, you said, like tons of times where she didn't call anyone because also like, who would. believe her maybe or like who wants to get into that who want you don't want to like step into that puddle yeah it's so it's so Hollywood to me because everybody's such a grifter and they're all trying to saddle up to power which is just the dynamic of people in hollywood yeah and so why would you go against oj like that's i mean outside of moral obligations obviously but to nicol's credit she did finally filed for divorce. She cited irreconcilable differences. They apparently tried getting back together. That obviously didn't work out and the divorce was finalized somewhere in 1992. Let's get into the crime itself. I'll start by saying that OJ was obviously acquitted of the murders in criminal

court. He was, however, found guilty of wrongful death when he was sued in civil court. Not going super into the procedural side of things, but in criminal court, the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt in civil court it is much lower it is proponents of the evidence hence why the results are different all that being said oj did it like we all know that right yeah i was gonna say after that but but he did it i do have a fun conspiracy theory that i'd like to share with you later um but no he hundred percent did it yeah i'm calling i'm calling that an indisputable fact yes so on june 12 of 1994 this would be two years after the divorce oj and nico attended the recital of their daughter After which they parted ways, Nicole went to a restaurant with her family, a restaurant where Ronald

Goldman was a waiter. Side note, I kind of hate how much I love the characters here. It is, this is such an LA story. I'm bringing that up because as I researched this, I remembered Cato Caelin. Do you remember him? I was just thinking, I was like, characters, I was like, Cato. Yes, oh my God, totally. He's incredible. He was, he lived in O.J.'s, like, guest house, some burnt-out actor. Anyways. So on this night, while Nicole is having dinner with her family, OJ was getting McDonald's takeout with Cato. At some point in the night, OJ's, sorry, at some point of the night, Nicole's mom calls the restaurant they ate at and told them that she was missing her glasses. The manager found the glasses and apparently Ron was supposed to go to Nicole's house

to return them. That was the game plan. Around 11 p.m. on that night, a man in Nicole's neighborhood, was out for a stroll when Nicole's dog came up to him covered in blood. Apparently, yeah, apparently this guy didn't find that suspicious. He just like walked home and the dog followed him. Eventually one of the neighbors, some couple said, hey, I'll take the dog in. The guy didn't want to hold on to it. Then he was Nicole's, and then they went back to the house to Nicole's place to return the dog and that's when they discovered her body. So she had been stabbed to death. Apparently she was nearly decapitated. It was a pretty gruesome scene. Yeah, that's what I heard. Ron's body was, yeah, Ron's body was found nearby and had also been stabbed multiple times.

It was assumed that O.J. was killing Nicole when Ron showed up and he took Ron out basically to avoid witnesses. At the scene, police found a blue cap and a leather glove, which will come up very famously later on. The night all this went down, OJ was actually supposed to be flying to Chicago to meet with Hertz executives. A limo driver arrived at his house and waited firm until sometimes. around 10.40 p.m. or so to take him to the airport. Apparently, the limo driver stated that he loaded four pieces of luggage in the car, but OJ only flew with three. So the assumption was that he went to LAX and he took a piece of luggage with him that had incriminating evidence and just disposed of it there in the public bins. Police call OJ in Chicago the next day to tell him about

Nicole's death. He sounded upset, but like I said, he was mostly disinterested, um, according to what's being reported. Why, is that normal? Like, if, would someone call, like, your ex-wife if you were murdered? No, right? That is weird. Like, why would they call him?

Like, I just think, probably just because he's famous, I guess, and they wanted to talk to OJ Simpson, but like, that feels really weird. I feel like, why would you call someone's ex if they were murdered? You would call, like, anyone else. Well, what I can guess is that the kids were in the house when she was killed.

And so maybe. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, as a parent. Okay, that makes sense because he was the parent and the poor kids. Oh, poor babies. Okay. Yeah, that's the only thing I can figure. They ended up asking him to come in for questioning, which he did. And he was caught immediately lying, immediately.

Like the first thing coming out of his mouth, he's such a dope. Well, also, I think that he's also probably like in shock about what he did, maybe to an extent. But he lies about a cut on his hand. And he says that he got it in Chicago. Yeah, like. Yeah, like he said that like he was so stunned when he heard the news, but they found like blood prints in his vehicle. And they're like, and then he was like, oh, no, I got it the day before I left for Chicago. I forgot.

Like it was like, why? What a weird thing to lie about. Before you said that his hand, they had a cut in his hand, I was thinking like his hand would hurt because I remember in like, this is gross, but I remember in the Manson murders, one of the girls that was like stabbing Ebley, a folder to death was like, I was surprised how much my hand hurt because it's not easy to almost decapaday. someone you know like what a he just did something so traumatic you know you can't I don't know but like also remember Taylor like he's like a super athlete but he's not a normal weightlifter no I know but that's like a different it's a different muscle to do but just stabbing I guess I don't know okay I don't know okay keep going the next day after OJ comes back from Chicago, goes to talk to the police. He hires Rob Shapiro, who's a lawyer basically tasked with

assembling a defense team for him. They call this defense team the dream team. He hired a who's who of the most expensive lawyers in Los Angeles. They all became ancillary characters in their own right. It was reported during this time, OJ was very, very distraught and super depressed. He actually went and stayed at Rob Kardashian's house with him and his family for several days for the moral support, I would assume. On Jews... And in the show, they make it clear that when he did that,

he had a girlfriend. Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. I can't remember. That's bananas. Yeah. Barbariari or something.

Yeah, she became a... I don't remember. But that woman had to, like, share a bed with him at the Kardashians. So weird. I mean, give me a break. That's terrifying. There was one piece of this, which, like, OJ apparently had a bunch of naked pictures of this girlfriend up at his house, and the jury went to his house to, like, look at the scene of him being at the house or whatever, and apparently Johnny Cochran and Rob Kardashian went to the house and replaced all the naked pictures of this woman that he was dating with, like, what was it? It was a, who's that artist that's Norman Rockwell? They replaced all these things with Norman Rockwell paintings.

So funny. On June 17th, the LAPD concludes that they have enough and they ask OJ to surrender himself. They ask him to surrender himself. Like that's what we're talking about here. Nobody else. Nobody else would this happen. Right. They would go get him.

Yeah. Yeah. They, this actually is like a huge part of the Netflix series is like this saga of getting OJ to the police station. They, the police tell Shapiro this who then relayed this to OJ. At this point, formal murder charges have been filed by the state somehow. I don't know, maybe it's the fame, maybe it's really good lawyering, but his lawyers keep delaying him going to the police station to surrender himself. Up to a point, the LAPD eventually has enough, and they just go to the Kardashian house to arrestings. I'm like, this is enough, finally.

By this point, O.J. and his friend and former teammate, Al Cowellings, who will refer to here going from court as AC had apparently disappeared from the Kardashian house, and an APB was put out for both of them for their arrest as fugitives. Hours after the disappearance, Rob finds a suicide letter from OJ, which, okay, like, I get it, suicide sucks. This one was so woe as me. Like, it's the ramblings of somebody incredibly privileged and not understanding how badly he fucked everything up. He just really felt sorry for himself going to the bronco chase the famous famous bronco chase this was such a big deal if you were old enough to remember this they interrupted i remember for sure yeah like they the details of it like rereading i was like oh my i can't believe this they interrupted an

NBA finals game just to air this i remember when this happened my parents were having a party at our house and we all everybody literally stopped everything to go watch this chase. It also reminded me of, like, again, how L.A. this is. I mean, you remember this when you lived in L.A. Like, it was a past time to watch car chases. It was just like, it was a oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, there's so many. That's really funny. I just someone at my office, we were talking about it recently, and she was born that day in Englewood. And I was just like, oh my God, your mom has been like, where are the doctors doing? They're not here helping me, you know? That's wild. There are so many details here. Some of the fun ones,

are that what the way they got to oj during this car chase was they would have all these people go on the news and start talking like they're talking to oj but it's being broadcasts across the entire country right um they would have his coaches all these famous friends he had these former famous teammates and players all of them would go on news shows and literally be talking to oj on the the radio. Apparently, yeah, apparently he had a gun on him as well. AC calls this out and says, hey, he's got a gun. He's basically sitting in the back seat. He was wailing about Nicole, about how he's ruined his life. Just every indicator of how guilty this man actually is. Like, I made a mistake. I should not have killed someone. Yeah, basically that. So this thing

drags on for hours. Apparently the police helicopter had to stop and go back and refuel. Like, that's how long this was, this was taken on. But this wasn't like a high-speed thing. It was just like it's meandering around the 101, the 110. Yeah, it totally was. Eventually, A.C. and O.J. make it back to his estate, and he goes in the house for about an hour before Rob Shapiro arrives, or Bob Shapiro arrives, and escorts him out to be arrested, finally. Getting to the pretrial side, I think, OJ pled not guilty, obviously, and a trial was set for January 24th, 1995. They really harped on the fact that he really wanted an expedited trial

for some reason. I'm not entirely sure why he was so in need of that. Maybe it was just go back, to normal life. Let me get acquitted and move on. I love how literally everyone in this trial became their own celebrities just by association. Oh yeah. Well, was it the first trial that was on TV or was that Menendez brothers? It was like one of the two, right? So I thought the McMartin thing was first. The preschool? Yeah. I don't know. It's one of the first, I guess. It had to be one of the first. Judge, so for example, the judge in this case, Lance Edo, he was lampooned on SNL. Marsha Clark. Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, the Dancing Edos.

So Marsha Clark, she was the lead prosecutor. She became a television personality who basically now reports on legal matters. OJ's own defense team became superstars in their own right. I don't I don't know if you know this, but Bob Shapiro became, like, the face and founder of legal Zoom. Oh, that's funny. The founder? Yeah. Well, they bill him as the founder. I'm sure he wasn't.

I'm sure the actual technical founder really needed, like, a famous lawyer to, like, attach it to. But, yeah, that's how he's billed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's hilarious. I love it. Is he still alive? Is he done?

I don't know. I know that, I know that, I know that, I mean, it's sad. Like, so many of his lawyers died, like, weird tragic deaths. Like Rob Kardashian famously died pretty soon after this trial. And so did Johnny Cochran, actually. So going into the trial set of it, it would be tough to discuss this without discussing race. This murder and the trial happened two to three years after the L.A. riots happened, which were sparked by the LAPD beating the shit out of a black band named Rodney King. Obviously, things like this, like the L.A. riot don't happen overnight.

this was a powder keg just waiting to explode for years it was obvious that racial tensions in LA were on the rise and the police just weren't helping anything there's video of rodney king's beating that everyone saw and this is the part that i didn't remember that came up as i was doing the research but the officers were responsible were tried and the jury was mostly way and they were all acquitted so that's actually what started the riots which i didn't actually remember any of this oh j i remember i've seen the video i remember that it's awful yeah oj was obviously a very prominent very successful black man nicole and ron were both white there was an obvious racial divide and racial tension in the city at the time

interestingly both the prosecution and the defense had a very similar strategy regarding who they wanted on the jury but for very very different reasons so The prosecution wanted women because they assumed that the domestic violence component of this would resonate with them. The defense also wanted women, but they were very specific. They wanted only black women because their research showed that black women disproportionately disapprove of interracial marriages. The jury ended up being 10 women, two men, nine were black, two were white, and there was one Hispanic man. Which, you know, given how this trial played out, they were, the defense was right, I think. Yeah.

So the reason I say that it is almost impossible to believe he did not do this, here's an example of some of the evidence that they had outside of the circumstantial stuff of like he disappeared in a car chase, tried to kill himself, was wailing about. All these stuff that make it seem obvious that he did it. Innocent people don't do that. Yeah. Never, right? Beyond that. And this part's really, I'll harp on this here in a minute. But his DNA was identified near the bodies of the crime scene.

His blood was left as a trail leaving the crime scene. The blood of him, Nicole, and Ron were in the white bronco. There's like eight more of these. Yeah, yeah, I'm not, like, I'm barely scratching the surface of how much forensic evidence and DNA evidence that was here. But I will also say that this was one of the first trials where DNA was being introduced as a mechanism of matching people to crime scenes. So there's a part of me that thinks that, well, maybe the jury just wasn't properly educated on how, where it is to have mistaken DNA evidence in this situation. Well, it was so new. Yeah. I feel like now I've seen like 7,000 episodes of bones where I'm like, oh, the DNA is like the hard truth, you know. But if you don't, if we hadn't, like we hadn't really heard of it yet.

That's true. And then I also wrote down that this is a jury pool of citizens who regularly see the police just doing messed up things to prove minorities guilty, right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So maybe they were educated on this and they still dismiss. He's like, I'm not going to believe. the cops that like you know they're like a really racist cop involved in this oh we're gonna get to him we're gonna get to him okay like more racist than most yeah he was he was phenomenally racist yes right we will stand out among the police yes okay i think it's like the next paragraph or two paragraphs here um okay okay so this argument about the police doing shady things is actually the route the defense took themselves. They said the LAPD basically botched this either deliberately or accidentally. There's a ton of back and forth on this. I read all of this stuff and if we went over at

point by point, you'd literally just pass out listening to this. There was- Do you think that you should start a judicial, you should start a judicial judicial judicial judicial procedures podcast? There's parts of that's interest. There's parts of that that's like, yeah, I am kind of a nerd when it comes to that stuff but i think i'm rare in that way but in this case there was issues with how they preserved the DNA evidence there were discrepancies on how much blood there was where it was when it was there there are claims of mishandling evidence yada this trone's on basically the defense poked holes in every part of the prosecution's case i mean frankly because they could afford to do so most people don't have that luxury right like you

come up with the theory and then you try and argue that theory to counter the prosecution in this case they had whatever however much money they needed so they could literally just spend all their time finding ways to poke holes and everything hiring every expert they could to poke holes in every detail of the prosecution's case i just far as i just looked it up when i was looking up so robert shapiro is still alive i just looked it up he's 80 years old um but he oh but in reading that I saw a little paragraph that the dream team cost $50,000 a day. I think the total, yeah, I think the total I looked up was it was somewhere around $3.5 to $6 million to how much OJ ended up spending for his entire defense. It's crazy. Yeah.

That's in, that's, hold on, that that would have been in 94 money. Yeah. So that would have been like probably 10. Did me look it up? Yeah, could you? Um, I'm so sorry. I'm doing this wrong. Three, I'm going to guess it's no, it had to be, it had to be like seven. So if you're doing 3.5, I would assume it would have to be somewhere around 7 to 8 million. Yeah, I think it's like 7. And that's on the low end. Yeah. Yeah.

So like if he, so if you do that conversion for like the high range of that, the 6 million, then you're looking like a $12 million defense. It's crazy. Yeah. Um, was it worth it? You lived the rest of your life as a prior. Like is it really, maybe it is. I don't know. Well, what are you going to do?

Go to jail? I mean, I guess it could have been like. like the coolest guy in jail. I guess. I don't know. I don't know. I do know he go, whatever, can keep going. So many opinions about OJ. I try to find his Instagram, because apparently he got on Instagram and I think that the ones I found are fake fakes. So, to your point, Mr. Incredibly famous LAPD racist, we're getting to Mark Furman. Peace to chip, for sure. So a little background of Mark, like I said, he was an LAPD police officer, and he was one of the very first officers at the scene of OJ's estate.

In 1985, so nine years before the murder, I mean, this is the stuff that I started looking at was like, I totally forgot this was a thing. I mean, I didn't even know this was a thing. So nine years before the murders, a screenwriter named Borah McKinney wanted to write a screenplay about the experiences of female officers. She met Mark and asked that he provide consulting services about his experience as a police officer, working with women in the police force and all that good stuff. Like, we have been saying, Mark sucks. Mark is what a stupid person thinks a man's man is. Yes.

He's the definition of punching down and feeling good for doing so. Laura recorded all these conversations she had with him. And amongst the amazing character traits that Mark exhibited, these are the beliefs that he held. He was a leader in a group called MAW, Ma, which stands for men against women, which literally sounds like Al Bundy created it. Like, this sounds like this. That is so stupid. That is a, that just sounds dumb. You sound dumb.

They can't think of a worse name. Did it, I could have sworn this was a part of married with children, right? It might be, oh my God. Whatever. It does sound like that. Yeah. The whole point of this was this is a group of male police officers who would harass and intimidate female LAPD officers. Like they would put them in harm as way.

So for example, if the female officer is in a shootout and asks for a backup, they just won't show. show like it was it was crazy levels of just trying to make these women's lives a living hell and this was a big group i didn't write the exact number down but it was somewhere like 140 i think if i remember correctly was the number of l-a pd officers that were a part of this organization or organization a bunch of fucking morons just hanging around um men against women like what does it even mean like what i know cool guys really cool guys though stupid like oh they're I bet they're all alpha males. Such idiots.

So he obviously said a ton of misogynistic things on these tapes, and I won't go into them except one thing, which was he was quoted as saying, you've got to be able to shoot people, be people beyond recognition, and go home and hug your little kids. Women don't pack those qualities, which good. You shouldn't think that beating someone beyond recognition is a good thing. Like, why you're an officer? Why are you doing that?

You're not the jury. You're not the judge. You're not the institution that is meant to punish these people. Like you should be just taking them and putting them in the places where they can be prosecuted. Like, why are you being someone beyond recognition? Do you think, I know that like you said earlier that you were talking about, you know, you're not against the police. But I do think that a lot of police reform wouldn't hurt, you know? And like, it's always been the case.

Yeah. So. training yeah so what happened so much happened to LAPD police force because of this trial because all this stuff came out right like all like there was investigations and no wait are you all really not showing up as backup for women like a lot of the reforms came as a downstream impact of this case there was another scandal that happened called Rampart which I'm not going to get into but there was multiple dominoes that fell because of this which were great there were great dominoes to fall they should fall yeah good fuck those guys yeah yeah totally um mark

was recorded on this saying the n word 41 times on the tape which is what you think was happening yeah this this is actually really important this is a critical part of this case and it comes up later on in the trial because mark is asked if he has ever said that word and he tests by see perjures himself saying no he hasn't so this is going to come up later on and is a big part of the defense's case actually again the reason why all this is relevant is because of the crime scene where they found Nicole and Ron's body there was a bloody glove that was also found there at OJ's estate there was another pair that was found by Mark the defense states that Mark planted the glove because of his racial animus that's why all this kind of ties together right the defense said that

Mark found the glove at the crime scene and then took it back to OJ's house. So we've concluded here that Mark sucks, right, Taylor? He's not smart enough to do that, right? That's what I'm getting at. Like, as shitty of a human as he is, this almost certainly did not happen. Part of the reason why it's so obvious that this did not happen, despite his horrible, horrible character flaws, is that the crime scene was combed over for about two hours before Mark actually arrived at it. And nobody there ever said anything about seeing a second glove.

They only saw the one. That's an obvious hole in this in this defense. The prosecution famously asks O.J. to try on the glove to show that it fits him. O.J. probably was making a display of how hard it was. I mean, there's video that you can watch this where this was, we all watched this happen live, I think. But the glove basically is too small to fit him. But part of the assumption is that he had arthritis, which makes your joints flare up. And that part of the medication for it is an anti-inflammatory, which he had stopped taking.

So his joints would flare up, expand in size, and make it difficult to put the gloves on easily. Like, realistically, it could have been the fact that the gloves were, had been completely soaked in blood. The fact that they'd been frozen. Right. Yeah, like, and also because of preservation issues, they'd frozen and defrosted the gloves multiple, multiple times. And also, the thing I did in detail I forgot about was that he was also wearing latex gloves underneath the gloves when he was, when he tried them on at trial. He was? I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why they, yeah, I don't know why they

did it that way. Well, Jesus, yeah. One thing I didn't know until after researching this was they also brought in a brand new pair of these gloves, the same size gloves to have them try them on and they fit perfectly. But nobody remembers that, right? What? Yeah. That's ridiculous. I didn't know that. And I didn't know the, like, what? That is, well, that is suspicious. For fuck sake. Yeah. So one of the, one of my favorite parts about this, which again, I didn't write this down, but it was, I, I, admire his attorneys so much because they're like schoolyard kids apparently they've been planning this they they didn't want to be the ones that call oj off to try on the gloves they wanted the

prosecution to do it to make them look foolish because they had assumed that because of the blood because of the freezing and defrosting because they literally he didn't take his office right they knew it wasn't going to fit right and so apparently while they're at the middle of like the trial they're basically goading the prosecution saying yeah if you're so confident someone just probably closed up go ahead do it you you're so sure like it was like it was like school yard tactics um exactly like get them oh my god and yeah this is another part of it that i actually really really loved was again they were so good at the psychology of litigation which is like its own separate like area of study they mind-fucked marcia clark and chris darden the co-chair the co-prosecution

During closing arguments, which Chris Starden is the one who did on the prosecution side, this is a time for each side to tell their story. Because at this point, you've heard so much about like DNA enzyme this and expert that, like you've glossed over so much. This is a time when you can kind of wrap it up into this really nice, clean package and like it's theater. Like that's really what it's meant to be. O'Chay's lawyers, during the closing argument of the prosecution, objected 71 times.

69 of these were overruled. They were just trying to mess up the flow because this guy's trying. Oh, 100%. Yeah, he was trying, like, he probably sat there in front of his, like, mirror in practice all his gestations and movements of the hands and all that. And they were just like, objection. And you just stop. Okay, now we got to answer this. Just be jerks.

So at one point, Judge Edo threatened to hold the defense in contempt if they kept doing it, which is like a huge, that's kind of like the last straw, right? Like that's incredible. Yeah. Johnny Cochran, who was the lead counsel for OJ, he made this whole thing about race and racism of the LAPD. He compared Mark Furman to Adolf Hitler. And I think the best part of all of this is that he offered literally zero proof of a cover-up.

He just said things, but he said them with the kind of conviction that a really good storyteller can say. And that was it. It was literally, like, there was, again, they're during the trial, they're just trying to counter the arguments of the prosecution. They're not painting a picture of all the other thing, what their theory is of what happened. They are just... Right, there's no, yeah. There's never been, like, an investigation to see who else could have done it. Oh, that's, yeah.

I'm glad you brought that. I'm going to bring that up here in a second, too. That doesn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. All this was painted is racism. So Mark Furman basically tanked the state's case against OJ because he perjured himself saying, I'm not racist, and then he's caught on this tape.

So that's, that's it really. And frankly, because two years prior, all these people, again, think about the, the makeup of the jury, all these people saw the LA riots happening and they framed all in the Rodney King meeting and everything else that went on with the LAPD. It's like they were right for this story to resonate with them to, again, remind everyone how big of a deal this was. Bill Clinton, who was president at the time of this trial, he was being updated regularly about the jury deliberations. Because he was ready to deploy the National Guard if another riot were to break out. That makes sense. The jury deliberated for four hours, and obviously, like I said up at the top, they returned a verdict of acquittal. One of the jurors did the Black Panther Fist Race thing at OJ when the verdict was read,

further illustrating just how much race played a factor in all of this. It's seriously because there's, again, one of the 50,000. and documentaries that were made about this case, that guy, the guy who did the Black Panther, the juror who did that, he was in a documentary about the case in 2016. He came out in that documentary saying on retrospect, he should have voted for guilt.

So that's where he, yeah, it's like, man, you are, thank you sir. What are you, like you're 22 years too late, but yeah. Oh my God, that's hilarious. Driving the point even further, 75% of white America thought that he was guilty, 70% of African Americans thought that he was innocent.

It's worth noting that the numbers narrowed since then. So in 2016, again, another poll was taken where 57% of African Americans think that he is actually guilty. So that swayed further that direction. I think it was just there was so much tension. Yeah, definitely. That is mostly it. What followed was a string of other legal and financial battles. OJ was sued by Fred Goldman, who was Ron's incredibly mustachio father, and he lost a $33 million judgment. Because again, it was a wrongful death.

Like it was a different burner proof, and he lost that. He went on to try and publish a book called If I Did It, which the Goldman family sued him over. They later published the book, but reduced the if part to such tiny font that the actual print of the cover read, I did it. In 2008, he was sentenced to 33 years in prison for breaking into the hotel room of a sports memorabilia collector and stealing a bunch of stuff, which admittedly it was like his stuff. It was O.J. Simpson memorabilia. He owned it, but he was found guilty of armed robbery and kidnapping. He ultimately served nine years in prison and then was parole in 2017. I put some fun facts here that are kind of just add some color to this. Like I said, we talked about a little bit

before, man, this guy was such a different human before this happened and such a different person after it happened. He went on to host and create a prank show called Juiced, which is the worst concept I have ever heard of. It thankfully died a quiet death after just one episode, but But basically, it was like a prank-style reality show where things happen to people and then O.J. jumps down and says, you got juiced. And it's like, I hate print shows are so stupid. And also, that is so dumb. Like, do you think people are happy? Because you imagine, you'd be real scared. You'd be like, are you going to murder me? You'd be terrified. Like, O.J. Simpson jumps out of nowhere and it's like he's laughing and

he's still like a huge dude. And it's like, what? What's going on? Like, like, should be doing, do we... No, that'd be real. You'd be real confused. So thankfully, that died quietly. The LAPD later on refused to reopen the case. The police chief came out of the time and said, quote, the acquittal doesn't mean there's another murderer.

Like, again, everybody knew he did it. So... Yeah, they didn't, like, no one ever tried to find anybody else. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There's another fun fact that I wrote down here around one of my absolute all-time favorite comedians ever. I learned about this after his death recently. I think it was maybe a year or two ago that it happened. But Norm McDonald's – are you familiar with Norm McDonald's, Taylor? I knew you were going to say Norm McDonald. Keep going.

Did you? Okay. I don't know the joke, but I knew that he'd be the person that you were talking about. Yeah, totally. So if you're unfamiliar with him, he is this hilarious deadpan comic who rose to fame on SNL in the 1990s. I would describe his comedy as kind of the embodiment of just really not giving a shit about consequences. Norm anchored the joke news show on S&L called Weekend Updates. He was apparently told by executives at NBC, who is the company that produces S&L, to stop making jokes about OJ. This exec named Don O'L Meyer was apparently super close friends with OJ. And all these jokes were written by Norm himself.

and one writer on S&L called Jim Downey. Jim was actually fired outright and Norm was fired from doing the weekend anchor role. He was still on SNL, but he very shortly had to leave that as well. I watched all these segments he did. It's totally worth a YouTube visit, not because I think making fun of OJ is particularly funny or that, you know, or any of that. It's more like you watch him knowingly sink his career with this grin on his face and just being like guys this is looter you know what it reminded me of was even at nbc the executives

they are trying to protect this guy and there was something indignant about norm macdonald's attitude that was like i don't even think he was doing it for the comedy i think he was doing it for like this is insane why are we trying to treat this guy with any sort of reverence you know like like i remember i remember right after i don't know if it was him or if it was someone else but on a weekend update they did the thing with like the picture of oj and they said well it's murder is legal in california yeah i remember yeah i wrote um i wrote one of these down because so he he would deliberately interject it in just total non sequitur ways again just pointing out the lunacy of why are we trying to protect this guy he did a segment on charles and diana's

divorce which was going out of this at this time and he um he threw this graphic up that was like and And Charles wrote a book about it and his picture of Charles in the book cover read, of course OJ did it, come on. Like it just has nothing, like he's talking about Diana and Charles, but he made it a point to do this. And yeah, I just thought that was absolutely fantastic, kind of like speaking truth to power in a way that nobody did Joe Simpson. So yeah, yeah, it goes to Norm MacDonald. But that's my story.

Wow, my, the only conspiracy theory that I've heard that I kind of like is I do, I did hear from crime junkie, I think, another podcast, they did, like a special where there's a theory that, like, O.J. Son from his first marriage was, is or was, like, a little unstable, and he was not invited to that dinner after the recital, and he was really mad. And that's why, and then he went and killed her, but obviously, that's not true. But that's, like, the only thing I've heard that is, like, has, like, a little bit of, like, maybe that could have happened. But really, like, man, he definitely did it. Have you ever met anybody who has said he didn't do it? I remember when I was, like, Jane, I was in, like, middle school, and I was, like, people talked about it all the time. And I was like, maybe he didn't do it also, but, I mean, I was 12.

What am I supposed to know, you know? But I don't think, I don't know who I was hearing that from or whatever, but no, I don't know anybody now who would say that he didn't do it. Yeah. I can't imagine. Someone today would be like, yeah, do it. And he lives in Florida, and he's out of jail and just, like, goes to Costco. it's weird so weird so weird like he's just a national like it's you're that is the only thing

you're known for i mean it's crazy the thing to think like all the accomplishments all that bullet point i listed off of all the things that he did all of it gone he's the guy who killed his wife yeah like that's basically it so and you can't even like celebrate him for his sports achievements because you just can't so there doesn't matter you know his jersey still retired which i was kind of surprised by but i don't know So that's my story and, yeah, yeah, wild times. So, Farr's. Taylor.

Today, I know that in our thing, in our theme song, it's JFK, and we're thanking Jackie and him, but actually, I'm going to go all the Kennedys and talk about the Kennedy curse. So there's so many bad things that happened to the Kennedys. So I'm going to kind of go through them. It's going to be a little out of order, but it's also going to be kind of like reading the Bible because I'm going to be like, Jack, son of blah, blah, blah, because I'm going to go person by person and just tell you the bad things. There were nine Kennedy children. A lot of bad things. There were nine Kennedy children.

They all have tragic stories. Kennedy women aren't as cursed as the men. Take that for what you will. And outside of these tragedies, there are plenty of nonprofits and good political decisions and things that they did, but a lot of bad things. Like not even bad things that they did, bad things that happened to them. So a lot of things that you could definitely, you know, lean towards there being some sort of curse. There have, Kennedys are, as you know, an American political family. There have been very few years in the past 100 years that a Kennedy has not held public office.

It's almost always someone there and almost always federally as well. So for my research, I did a lot of just like compiling from Wikipedia, but also I read a James Patterson book on the Kennedys. So it was like a book that he wrote that's nonfiction, but about their stories. So some of the more dramatic things. I'm going to start with the parents of the Kennedy children and kind of go from there. The dad of JFK, the patriarch, is Joseph Patrick Kennedy. As you can tell, he's very Irish and very Catholic. That's a very Irish name.

Joseph Patrick Kennedy was born in 1888. He started a political family in Boston. He made his money in the stock market. He would do these things called stock pools with other investors that was a little shady and he shorted a lot of stock before the crash in 1929. So by 1935 in the height of the Depression, in today's dollars, the Kennedy is worth $3.5 billion. dollars.

Whoa. So they were fine. They had a lot of fucking money. Uber rich. Totally. And JFK, you know, one of the problems that he had running for president is that he had no idea of what people had been through during the Depression. He just wasn't involved, you know.

So Joe definitely had connections to the mafia. At one point, he leaves his family and goes to Hollywood to try to open a studio. He invested in a lot of movies. invested in a lot of movies, like kind of like B movies, like cowboy movies. He had a long affair with the actress Gloria Swanson. And also, I'll mention this kind of periodically, but every single Kennedy man had a ton of affairs. And it's just not interesting because everyone was doing it. But.

Yeah, I would have figured much. Joe was the dad and did it a ton. He, after Prohibition, he worked with James Roosevelt to sell liquor. So he knew, like, that Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt. kids. He definitely had connections to the mafia, so he was doing some shady things. And all this time, you know, he's still very, very Catholic. He holds several political positions. He was president of the SEC. And then the big one he does is from 1938 to 1940, Joseph Kennedy is the ambassador to England, which is an interesting time to be the ambassador to England because right as we're

getting into World War II. And he was definitely the wrong guy to do that. He was a little bit of a like, I don't know, maybe a wet noodle about it, or maybe he just was like too rich to care about it, but he was like, why do we have to write, why don't we just see what this Hitler guy has to say? Yeah, I do remember some stuff around his, he had like a weird affinity for eugenics, from what I recall. Yeah. And so this. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, this kind of falls in line. Yeah, that totally makes sense, because all the Kennedy's like look the same and have like the same thing. I mean, I feel like it kind of fits into that. But he was like, he tried to, meet with Hitler twice and you never actually got the meeting, but one British MP said of him,

he said, quote, we have a rich man, untrained in diplomacy, unlearned in history and politics, who was a great publicity seeker and who apparently is ambitious to be the first Catholic president of the United States. So like no one took him seriously out there. And he was also anti-Semitic, unsurprisingly. And the things he said are bad, but generally it was like, Hitler has some good ideas. What's the problem? You know, what's weird about all that is, um, at that time in history, Irish people were very much looked down upon in the US. Like they were, like, yeah, they were a minority, right? And he's definitely from a minority. Yeah.

And it's just interesting, like he doesn't see the irony and like his own belief system and how people treat him directly. Totally. Totally. Yeah. So, I mean, that's just, you know, part of his personality. He was also, like, a very strict father. He raised his children to always win, you know, they, you know, had to be the best. And he basically raised them all to be president. That was his goal. Joe does, he dies of complications of a stroke in 1969.

So the timeline's going to be a little weird, but he dies in 1969. He married Rose Kennedy. She was born Rose Fitzgerald in 1890. She actually died in 1995 when she was 100,000. which is some of these women. That's crazy. I can't believe it was that recent time. I know. So she was also very, very Catholic. She met Joe at parties in like a rich society. She devoted her life to her, her children. That was really, that was Rosa's thing. She was, you know, a grandmother, a great-grandmother, a mother that was her number one thing that she did.

And Jacqueline Kennedy, Jackie Kennedy, described her mother-in-law, while in a letter to a priest. She said, I don't think Jack's mother is too bright, and she would rather say a rosary than read a book. So a little bit of, like, internal criticism about how much she relied on being Catholic for things. But that was Rose. She was the mom. So obviously, yeah. How do you think me and you would do at one of those parties? I totally agree.

I think we talked about this before. Like, I do not fit in. You would see me like a sore or freaking thumb. People would ask me for a drink because they would think I worked there. They just, I don't think I could fit in. get in. It's a laugh. I don't think I can nail the laugh.

I think, because I feel the laugh is so, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah, it's just, I don't know. Yeah. I'm too rough. I think I'm a little bit too rough for that. Yeah, I think I'm just, I got the shadow of, I don't know, not being rich my whole life that you can see. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's definitely a society that, like, I don't know. I don't fit in and don't know anything about. But they, you know, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So now I want to talk about all nine of their children. I'm going to do it in order and it'll be maybe confusing, but some stories that maybe you haven't heard will get to. The first born son is Joseph Kennedy Jr. He was born in 1915. He was the one who was going to be president. He was super handsome. Like they're all handsome, whatever. He was like super handsome. He was like super handsome. He was older brother. He was really being groomed to be president of the U.S. his family. He was also anti-Semitic and had some of his dad's ideas. There's like a story that was in the James Patterson book where Joe Jr. was working with a professor at school who was

Jewish and he was like, yeah, it's too bad that that guy has to go, but in general, it's fine. You know, like, not great. So, but he was, even, even though he was very active in World War II, He married an actress Sheila Rouch in 1940 that had no children because in 1994, in 1944, while serving as a naval pilot during World War II, Joe went on a mission that he didn't have to go on. And it was a little bit like the plane may not have been ready, but he was like, I'm brave and I'm going to go on this. He had already done some pretty dangerous missions in World War II. And his plane exploded over England. So he died in 1944. Obviously super sad to have like the older brother, first tragedy of many, that Joe Jr. died that way. And the second son is John F. Kennedy. He was born in 1917. He was a sick child. He had back injuries after being injured in World War II. So a big part of his story is how many drugs he was on when he was president.

Have you heard those stories? I have. Yeah. It was a. apparently that injury was like almost debilitating yeah the kid to wear a back brace and like though you know during the Cuban missile crisis the person in charge is like pretty fucked up so super interesting if people had known that maybe like they wouldn't have he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did but he was in a lot of pain for a lot of his life but he served as a commander he would have been on like opiates right oh 100 percent yeah yeah he had like literally the doctor they called Dr. Feelgood was his doctor.

Oh, geez. So, yeah. It was absolutely on a whole bunch of shit. Yeah. It was like, you know, a pill to go to sleep, a pill to wake up, a pill to do this, da-da-da, lots of shots, those kind of things. He sounds like a burning man, attendee. Yeah.

He was injured in World War II, like we said. He was a commander of a patrol torpedo craft, and he, I think he saved a couple of people when it got, like, torpedoed. he is the only president to have the Marine Corps medal and the Purple Heart, either of those. He's really like probably one of the most decorated presidents besides like Eisenhower. It's actually pretty cool. He married, yeah, it's pretty cool because it seems like he did a good job over there, especially like after his brother died, you know, he still went over there,

which I think was pretty brave. I know that he like couldn't get in immediately because of his injuries and his like history of like being kind of thickly, but he ended up getting in however that happened and was actually pretty, pretty heroic in there. So he married Jacqueline Lee Beauvier in 1953. She was also a socialite, but she was like doing okay. She had a job as a reporter, and she, when he proposed to her and she left without answering, she went to England for Queen Elizabeth's coronation. So she had a pretty cool job, and she was sort of reluctant to marry him.

he already had had a lot of girlfriends and he didn't plan to stop having girlfriends you know that was kind of part of it as well but they got married anyway and jfk and jackie have this kind of like perfect looking marriage they have four kids um they have arabella is born still born in 1956 so that's one tragedy of them for their kids caroline is still alive she's still involved in politics she has three kids she's still you know with us JFK Jr. Can you picture JFK Jr? Yeah, I remember this guy. So he was born in 1960. He was two when his dad died and he was always in the public eye. There's like a picture of him in his like little like nice coat at his dad's funeral. So super sad, obviously. In the 90s, he was like a political playboy.

He was a lawyer, but he like barely made it. He like barely scooted by law school. All these guys went to like Harvard and Stanford and all that. and you know, but he started a political magazine called George. You heard of that? Yeah. Yeah. So that's like one of my favorite facts about him actually is, so full disclosure.

The first time I threw the bar exam, I failed and passed a second time. But when you fail it, it feels awful. Like you feel like everybody's moving on to greater and bigger things and you've got to go back to the books and try again. And knowing that he failed, he failed the bar a shitload. borrow a shitload like he felt like somewhere between three and five times like he had a really hard time getting past it it's one of those things that money is never going to get you there completely you got to kind of do it on your own and so i was uh or leaned on that a little bit i was like well if someone like that can keep failing then then it's all good and it's all good totally that's

good um yeah so he you know became a lawyer but he was really mostly like a political playboy Like I said, he started a political magazine called George, which was sexy politics. Like the first, the first issue had, what's her face? Like the really famous model from the 90s, like dressed like George Washington. No, not Cindy Crawford. Kim Moss was in it, too. Like, they were all in it. That was like the circles he was in.

He's on Oprah. There's an episode of Seinfeld where like Elaine sees him at the gym and she's like really excited. He's like the sexiest man alive. He's also like, I don't know if this is what you picture, you picture him, but he has like a very very hairy chest. And I feel like I don't see that in the cover of magazines anymore. I haven't in a long time. Didn't picture that.

Did you picture that? But I pictured him as like 90s sexy, like Tom Selleck, you know, like a hairy chest and a lot of hair. So he was like the most eligible bachelor, sexiest man alive, all those things. And I think he probably struggled with it a little bit. You know, people, he's one thing that it said in the James Patterson book that like someone was like, oh, everybody sees you. and they know who you are and he was like everybody looks at me and they know who my dad is but i don't know who my dad is like he didn't get to meet him he didn't get to really see him so that's sad i can imagine that on the outside looking in like what a charmed life right like you're

uber rich you're kennedy your good looking living i think he was in new york or something was it yeah yeah and i think on the outside it can seem like it's all um rainbows and sunshine but there's got to be a lot of like how do you how do you um create your own life when you're like your pretty big shadow especially for him yeah yeah like they called what didn't they call his mom and death like the king queen of camelot at one point like they were yeah it was like Camelot was like a perfect marriage of power and all these things and yeah yeah that's gotta be tough to grow up in that yeah totally so jfK junior marries another rich woman named caroline beset she was also like not super stoked on marrying him but then

she did and they were like a dream couple of the 90s and it sounds like they had like a lot of problems and they were maybe going to get a divorce and another thing about jfk junior is he always wanted to fly like he was obsessed with like planes like when his dad even like up until he was two when his dad would like go somewhere on a trip who come back off the toy plane and like he just loved it and and And Jackie told him not to learn how to fly, but he did anyway. And so in 1999, he and Carolina probably separated, but they're going to a wedding anyway. So he says, I'm going to take you and your sister to this wedding. We're going to fly out of New York and go up the coast.

And he should not have done this. He was not certified. He was not complete with all of his training for being a pilot. His ankle was broken. And you need two feet to be able to do what he needed to do in that plane. so you need your feet to do it too but his ankle is broken and it's the same thing it's like this attitude that I can't remember what it's called but that like pilots say like a like a got to get their attitude which is kind of what happened to Kobe Bryant as well where it's like the pilot is like

oh no I can do this I have to get there like I'm invincible you know and he's you know what I mean so he got up in this like little plane and he probably lost sight of the horizon because it was really dark. So we couldn't see the horizon. And he had also like he almost hit like an American or some airline like passenger plane first. And then he was kind of like flying erratically and then he disappeared off a radar and they found the plane like two days later. So he also like I don't know, there's a Malcolm Gladwell book where I can't remember which one it is, but where he talks about this losing side of the horizon thing. And he's in a plane with a pilot and the pilot's trying to explain to him what might have happened. And he says like, okay, I'm going to.

going to, the pilot says, I'm going to point the plane down and put us in a spiral and you're not going to feel it. And because of like the fourth, Malcolm Gladwell was like, okay. And then like a minute later, he's like, okay, you can start. And the pilot was like, we're already doing it. Like you can tell. You know, so that might have been what had happened. Like he was like, everything's fine, but just imagine. So JFK Jr. dies in a terrible way in 1999. The fourth child of Jackie and Jack is a son named Patrick who lived for two days. He was born in 1963. So pretty tragic, you know, their kids situation. In the other obviously thing that you know about is in 1963, we all know, JFK is a president. They're in Dallas, just like you.

The Dallas Morning News hates him. I wrote an article about how much I don't like him. In the car in Dallas, the governor's wife says, see, Dallas loves you. Texas loves you, you know, to him, and right after she says that he shot from the sixth floor of a building by a crazy man named Blee Harvey Oswald. Both this and another assassination we'll talk about, like, I wish it was a conspiracy, but it's just a crazy guy, you know, like a really radicalized person. The Harvey Oswald, like, wanted to defect to Russia. They wouldn't let him in. He wanted to be a socialist, all these things. So just kind of a crazy person.

There is a theory that. Taylor, yeah, sorry, the overlap, because there's some lag in the Wi-Fi, so I don't mean to keep interrupting, it's just, there's a lag there. No worries, go ahead. Did you ever listen to the last podcast on the left about JFK? Yes. Do you remember what the theory was? Do you talk about the Secret Service? Yes.

I do believe that. I love it. You tell it. Yeah. So the idea is that, or the, the theory is that what actually ends up happening was Oswald did set off the events, but the, The actual bullet that tore JFK's head off, the theory is, came from the Secret Service agent behind the president's limousine. So Oswald fired the first shot, hit the ground, fired the second shot, hit the president

in the neck and Connolly in the shoulder. And then at that point, the Secret Service unsafetyed the gun to try and do something. The car lurched and the guy fell backwards and the theory is that he shot him in the back of the head that way. So anyways, random aside. I love that. I think that's fun, that they were, like, super hungover and just were, like, not doing their job well. Also, like, it's weird because the way that Kennedy moves when he gets shot, like, it's confusing to people.

But it's also because he's wearing a back brace. So, yeah, the whole thing. You could, that could be your job. You could just learn about it. That could be all you do. But, man, fucking poor Jackie. She is holding his brains in her hand. And, like, it brings to the doctor.

It was like, here I have these brains, you know, like, absolutely horrifying. That evening, she's on Air Force One with his body. She's still covered in blood. She's wearing her, like, her famous pink Chanel suit covered in blood while LBJ gets sworn in on Air Force One. So a really fucking horrifying, horrifying situation. Jackie remarries pretty quickly to a Greek man named Aristotle Onassis. Aristotle's daughter is like, do not marry this fucking woman. She is cursed.

While they're married, Aristotle's son dies in a plane crash, and they separate, but they never divorced because he passes away. So by 45, she's been a widow twice and then does not get married again. Jackie dies of cancer in 1994. So she lives like 30 or so years more than Jack did. Wow. Tragedy. That could be your job. Your whole life could be about those two.

But let's move on. For the third child, maybe the most worst story. is as of Rosemary. Rosemary was born on September 3rd, 1918. You know, I wrote, poor fucking Rosemary Kennedy. Like, this is the worst. Her birth is an actual horror story. Her mother was giving birth.

The midwife wanted to wait for the doctor, but the doctor couldn't get there because of, like, I don't know, a storm, something happened. So they had to wait two hours. And the midwife, instead of just delivering the baby, kept her in the birth canal so made the labor two hours longer than it needed to be

and she was like literally holding the baby's head so the baby would not come out and like I cannot think of a single fucking reason to do that take the baby out but because of that she was definitely deprived of oxygen and so I think that was like something that like

made her a little bit disabled from that experience yeah she wasn't like a terrible person she's had trouble in academics she couldn't really read she had special tutors, you know, she was, um, she was also super depressed because people treated her all these things about her. Um, when she is like in her 20s, her parents sent her to a convent, but she keeps leaving the convent at night because she wants to like have a life, you know,

like she's a grown woman who, you know, is just has some like, you know, problems with reading and comprehension. It's not like, nothing's terribly wrong with her. And because of that, her parents are worried that she could like get an SCD or get pregnant. or something and they're just like pretty embarrassed of her they don't want her doing anything stupid and i'm sure a fucking joke yeah she sounds just percocious yeah that's it nothing terrible exactly um and when she was 23 her father decided to have her lobotomized which was experimental at best it was never like a great procedure and as far as do you want to tell everybody what a lobotomy is i feel like you know oh yeah um so this is

when where they take a ice pick through your eye socket. They push your eyeball out of the way, stick the ice pick up into the frontal cortex of your brain and just kind of wiggle it around a bunch and turn you. And hope for the best. Hope for the best, basically turning you into like a very close approximation of a zombie. Yeah, yeah.

And that's what happened to Rosemary. After her lobotomy, she ended up with a mental capacity of a two-year-old. And her family institutionalized her, and many of them never saw her again. When Joe Sr., her dad died, they did start bringing her around again. Like, oh, great. And, you know, bringing her to things and that. She was always in like a nice facility, but still. And she died of natural causes at 85.

So she lived, like, most of her life after this horrifying procedure happened to her. It wasn't that long ago that she died. Right? She died in 2005. Yeah. So there was a person living in 2005 who had their brain scramble with an ice picked to the, like, that sounds like, it's nuts. That's absolutely horrifying.

So poor Rosemary. So she was the third. The fourth Kennedy child is Kathleen Kik Kennedy, so they called her Kik. She married, she was really close to Joe Jr. her brother. She married a Lutheran Englishman, the Marquess of Hartington, and it was a big deal, obviously, because he was Lutheran, and they're very Catholic. And they married, and he died pretty soon after they were married. He was shot by a German sniper during World War II, which is super sad. They had no children because he died so quickly after their marriage. And then she,

hit herself, died in a plane crash on May 13th, 1948. So another just like, she said away. Short tragic life. Like, just stop it. Don't go in planes, 100%. Absolutely. So Kek had a short and sad life. Number five is Eunice Kennedy. So Eunice was born in 1921.

She married Robert Sergeant Shriver in 1953. He was the first director of the Peace Corps. So he did a lot of good things. They had five kids. Robert, Maria, Timothy, Mark, and Anthony. You'll remember Maria. She married Arnold Schwarzenegger. Yep.

She was the first lady of California. They got divorced after it was discovered that he had a child with their maid, which I was sure was not his only affair. Their son, Patrick, is an actor. Her daughter, Catherine, is married to the worst Chris. She's married to Chris Pratt, who is the worst. Why do you just like Chris Pratt? I'm not the only one who says this, but of all the Hollywood chrises, Chris Pratt is the worst Chris. And I think a lot of it's because he's like super religious and then like very like, Jesus helped me do this, which is really annoying.

And a lot of people just like think he's very like haughty. Like, when you see him and Catherine together, she has these, like, this, like, weird smile, you know? Like, they just, like, seem kind of weird. I found a self-help book she wrote in, like, the 90s about, like, hey, my life is so hard, blah, blah, blah. And, like, I don't know. I know he said JFK Jr.'s life must have been hard, but also fuck you. So, like, I don't know. Like, they don't seem great.

How does she get a pass on having a hard life? I don't know. I don't know. And then, like, oh, one thing about Chris Pratt. I also think, like, maybe he's a great actor because, like, Owen Grady. in Jurassic Park is super sexy. But if you, like, look at Chris Pratt in real life, you're like, you. I think that's the worst character.

I can't explain that. People get it. You get it, everyone. But, so that's one of Eunice, the granddaughter is, um, Eunice was like a mother to a lot of the Kennedy children. Um, she was, you know, stayed, you know, with the family a lot. And one thing that she did that is fantastic that, you know, one of the many, like, things that they do that's actually like really good and a lot of philanthropy. She started the special

Olympics in honor of Rose, of her sister. And when I, yeah, I went to the special Olympics opening a ceremony few years ago in LA. I don't know how we got tickets to it, but it was beautiful. I cried the whole freaking time and Maria Shriver spoke and it's really great that they did that. So that's super cool. That's awesome. Yeah. So the sixth child is Patricia. She was born 1924. Oh, also Eunice died in 2009. So she also lived to be very old. Patricia is the number six. She was born 1924. She died in 2006. She married actor Peter Lawford. And I don't know if you know who that is.

But I know him from Easter Parade. Easter Parade is one of my favorite movies. And so, like, I was just like really excited that anyone got to marry Peter Lafford because I just thought I've always thought he was so handsome. But he sounds like kind of a douche, you know. I don't even recognize his picture. Yeah. He was like a not cool. They called him the least talented member of the rat pack. Like he wasn't really in the rat pack, but he was like on the outside of it because Joe was trying to get the rat pack and like people in the mafia to get people to vote for JFK.

So they had like Peter Lafford like go in and try to be cool. And Frank Sinatra was like, yeah, I totally want to hang out with JFK, but he ended up having it up Peter Lafford and he was like really disappointed, which is funny. It would be sad if that's your claim to find as I'm the saddest rat pack member. I know. It's so funny. So they have four kids and they do get divorced eventually, but they have four kids. And like the divorced stuff, I couldn't figure it all out. Some of them get divorced. Some of them don't. It's also weird because they're Catholic and like you can't get divorced, all these things. Patricia and Peter Lofford do get divorced. The only one of the four kids with the Wikipedia page is Christopher. He was an actor and he was super involved in drugs as a teen. He got arrested for impersonating a doctor to get drugs. And his cousin, who we'll talk about later, ODs, he sobered up and he was sober for 33 years. He did a lot of activism for drug awareness, but he died of a heart attack when he was 63. So it sounds like he turned his life around after all that bad's happened. So that's Patricia and Peter's fun.

Number seven is Robert S. Kennedy. He was born on November 20th, 1925. I wrote Bobby, Bobby Kennedy. He married, yeah, he married Ethel Skakel. and they had 11 children, which is too many children, just way too many children. I know one of those kids that I think you're going to talk about, because the name Skagel sounds really familiar. There's a Skagel story. It's her nephew, but we'll get there. So they had Kathleen. Kathleen was Lieutenant Governor of Maryland from 19-5, 2003. She's still involved in politics.

Her daughter, Maeve, died in 2002, and like the weirdest way. So her daughter was 40 years old, and her and her son went on a canoe on a lake and they both just disappeared they found their bodies later like something happened and they both died which is terrible wild um they have joseph who's blonde i don't know if like not many them are blonde he's an energy businessman he got married in 1979 and he tried to get divorced in 1993 but he was like i'm catholic i can't get divorced he tried to get an annulled by saying that when he was married he was in a bad mental state but like it's been 15 years can't get an annulled, you know, and his wife wrote a book called, this is so sad, called Shattered Faith, a woman's struggle to stop the Catholic Church from annulling her marriage.

Everybody called that. How important do you think you are? Poor, fucking real. But, you know, that's, like, again, how Catholic everybody is. Joseph had two sons, they're twins. One of them is a ginger, and he's currently the ambassador of North Ireland. So, like a Kennedy with red hair, which is kind of wonderful. So number three is

RFK Jr. And so there is this woman who writes for Vanity Fair who writes a newsletter. I actually haven't gotten it a while, so I wonder if she still works there, but her name is Bess Levin, and she's fantastic. Like, she just has, I just like love reading her stuff. And she called Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.,

an example of an apple falling as far from the tree as possible. Oh, that's kind of mean. What, why, why? Let me say. So he did a lot of activism, a lot of environmental stuff. So he worked a lot on that. He has been married a couple times.

Ex-wife actually killed herself, which is pretty tragic. And I think that that happened after some of his affairs were, like, out in public, which is a bummer. But then he did the bad thing. He is anti-vaccination, like real hard, like all of them. He's one of those people that is like, do your own research and do it on your own schedule. And it's like, oh, my God, I'm not a fucking doctor. I'm listening to my doctors. What are you talking about? So he has done all this stuff about vaccines connected to autism, which is not true.

He doesn't like the flu vaccine. And then, of course, he hates the COVID vaccine. He literally wrote a book called The Real Anthony Fauci, Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health. He's an idiot. Yeah, he's in that job. Yeah. And I wrote, he sucks. Fuck that guy.

So fuck you, RFK Jr. I hope you're listening. Then fourth kid of their 11 is David. David has a fun story because he almost drowned while RFK was running for president and he saved him and it was very heroic. David was the only member of the family to stay up late on the news as his dad, RFK, accepted the nomination for the Democratic president. And so he's the one who saw the news about his dad being shot before everybody else did, which is terrible. He was 12. And he turned to drugs like after that.

He got into a car accident. There's so much drunk driving. Just assume that everybody's been drunk driving this whole time. David got in a car accident. His girlfriend was paralyzed. He was injured. And in 1984, he died of a drug overdose. So he was very troubled, I think probably, obviously, from his dad being assassinated

and him being like the first one to see it and all of that. Yeah. The next kid is Mary Courtney. She married an Irishman. They had one daughter named Sorchet, and she died of a drug overdose in 2019. So another drug overdose death. Then there's Michael, and Michael is a nerd who looks like a cartoon of his dad. He looks like Bobby Kennedy, if you like took your hands on Bobby Kennedy's head and stretched it out an inch.

Like he's really long teeth. It's like a lot. I'm going to look him up. He married Frank Gifford's daughter. Look him up. That's Michael Kennedy. Dude, he's mostly teeth by body weight. Mostly teeth, yeah.

And he's in the news because he married Frank Gifford's daughter, who's like the football guy. who's like the football guy and while he was married he had an affair with his babysitter his wife woke up in the middle of the night and he wasn't in bed so she went to go find him and found him in the room of their babysitter who was only 16 and because 16 is was the age of consent or is in Massachusetts at the time or whatever he was able to get off of being like actually in trouble for it but like he was definitely sleeping with her before then you know like he was absolutely like grooming and a predator and stuff with his or raped his 14 year old nanny and he blamed it on the booze he said you know i don't drink that wasn't this was in 1997 he blames it on alcohol and drugs and then he was like i'm gonna get sober and he got sober for like maybe six months and on new year's eve 1997 so the same year that it came out that he was sleeping with the nanny he died in a ski accident and like this is one of the dumbest fucking ways to die. So there's a dumb thing that the Kennedys do that the parks and ski resorts have told

them not to do, which is playing ski football, which is playing football on skis with no pads and no fucking helmet. So Michael Kennedy is like playing ski football with his family, he catches the ball and he hits a tree and he dies like almost immediately. It's almost like they have no understanding of like who they are. But, like, you should because everybody dies. There's no, like, the universe is trying to take you out. You should be more scared. Yeah, you're always, there's a target on your back anyways, and then you play football on skis.

Which, like, skiing on its own, people die, just doing that. You don't have to make more complicated. Totally. Why are you even, like, pushing even further? So Michael dies, 1997. The seventh kid is Mary Carey. She did a lot of activism. She seemed fine until I saw that she just made.

Andrew Cuomo, which is probably not great. So they're that. She did get in trouble for drunk driving in 2012. Another son, Christopher, seems fine, lives in Chicago. There's Matthew Douglas. I can't find anything on them. And Rory, they're just rich kids. You know, Rory is a filmmaker, you know, like Richie Ballar.

Like Sophia Coppola. Sure, fine. So, as you know, so those are all the kids. That's what happened to the kids. After J.K was assassinated. R.F.K. ran for president. And as we know, he had no secret service protection that was not a thing for people running for president yet. And he was in L.A. accepting the Democratic nomination when he was

killed. It was a lone gunman. His name was Sirhan Sirhan. He was just denied parole like two years ago again. He'll be denied parole forever. I listened to a long time ago, an entire podcast about it where this guy was talking to his uncle who like devoted his life to trying to find the conspiracy behind it. There's no conspiracy. It was just a crazy person. So is there a is there a why to I can't remember the why I'll look it up but I can't remember but like yeah it was just like when he died Ethel was eight months pregnant with Rory so she had her a couple days after which is terrible and just a couple other like tragedies around RFK and Ethel's family in 195 Ethel's parents were killed in a plane crash just like coincidentally.

And then also the Skakel thing is her nephew, Michael Skakel, was involved. He was convicted of killing his neighbor, Martha Moxley. And he did it in like 1960. It's like we can maybe talk about it later, but it's like a story where like she went to a party and like a rich people's house. And he lived with his dad who wasn't really taking good care of them. And these like rich kids who could do whatever they want. And he ended up beating Martha Moxley to death. of a golf club and he got convicted like in 2013 so like 50 years later wow he was convicted of that

but he was definitely also a murderer so there's that another one in number eight of 11 is gene no of nine what am i doing okay this is the last these are the last ones number of the nine Kennedy original Kennedy children so jean Kennedy is number eight she was born 1928 she died in 2020 she was the last one to die the last of the kids. She was the ambassador to Ireland for a little while. She married a man named Stephen Edward Smith. They had two sons and adopted some daughters. She had a son, Michael, who was, I think also like something bad happened to him. I can remember. It's so many things. But it was terrible. It was just blending together. It was an airplane. It was some rich person way of dying. Exactly. Exactly. Her husband cheated on her a ton.

And so, like, their marriage didn't last very long, like, togetherness, but they stayed married until his death. She was pretty embarrassed about it and kind of, like, hit it and just kind of, like, let it happen. Her son, William, was involved in a rape case. He was ultimately acquitted, but he had been convicted in a rape as well. So some bad things happened to her, too. And then we have the last of the Kennedy children. Do you know the last one? Who were we missing?

Teddy. Teddy. Edward, Ted Kennedy, was born in 1932. He died in 2009. He was a senator from Massachusetts for over 40 years. I wrote lots of drunk driving, like, a lot. Like, imagine the most drunk driving. That's where we are right now.

Yeah, this guy's, yeah, I have a lot of conflicting opinions about him, which you're going to make clear why they exist. Yes. So he married a woman named Virginia Bennett. They had four kids. His daughter Kara died of a heart attack on a treadmill pretty young. She had had cancer. I think another one of his kids had cancer.

as well. They got divorced. He obviously, like, cheated on her a ton, and Virginia was, like, really just, like, beaten down by, like, being the wife of a Kennedy. It doesn't sound like a fun job. It sounds pretty fucking terrible. And he actually had a second wife. He married in 1995. Her name was Victoria Reggie. And they said that she helped him kind of settle down and, like, live out, like, the remainder of his life. And she is actually newly the ambassador to Austria. So Ten Kennedy's widow is now our ambassador to Austria. So it happened, like, literally, this year. Here are the bad things. The first bad thing that is like not as bad, but like a whole thing, Ted was also in a plane crash in 1964. He survived, but he was in the hospital for several

months with the back injury and one of his AIDS was killed. So, I mean, don't get into a fucking play with the Kennedy is my number one piece of advice. And then a really bad thing was in 1969. So in 1969, Ted Kennedy is married to his first wife, Virginia, and he's also a senator who's already a senator in Massachusetts and he goes out to drink with his nephews and with his family actually i think that i got this wrong i think he went out to drink with his nephews the night that his nephew was accused of rape and he's part of that story but it's not this he went to a party in 1969 with other a bunch of people and he said he would drive a young woman named mary jocopekney home and by all accounts like she didn't really drink that

much. Like, I don't know if she, like, trusted him because he was, I mean, he's a senator, you know, and he, for whatever reason, drove her home. He crashes off of a bridge and into the water. He gets out of the car and he walks 15 minutes back home. He passes four houses where he could have stopped and called for help, but he doesn't. And he eventually, when he finally tells someone, they go and try to find her, but she's obviously dead. So Mary, Mary Joe Peckney died. in that, like, horrifying way. His wife had already had two miscarriages and was pregnant and had a third miscarriage after the trial. So it was just, like, super traumatic and horrible for everyone. Wait, Taylor. She ended up not being, yeah, tell me. There's a part of that story that's really, really bad.

So, like, when they found, when they found, when the police finally got the car out and pulled her body out, they found there was, like, scratching claw marks on the roof of the car. like she was very much alive when this all happened like he could have actually saved her yeah and then another he could have saved her that's incredible and this i'm getting this from the last podcast episode on the kennedy's was that apparently he went back to i don't know the hotel or kind of whatever he was staying in and he called the manager to complain because the neighbors were being loud and playing music too loud this night that this happened that's what he did

Oh my God, he just killed the one. Yeah. So he ended up not being charged, and he, like, offered to step down, but he didn't step down from the Senate. He paid her family $90,000, and they got $50,000 from insurance, but they didn't pursue it any further

because they just didn't want to, like, they just wanted to grieve in private, you know? Like, it would have been just, like, a media circus. And then the last thing I read about this is, did you watch Succession? Is that, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've certainly three. On HBO? Yeah.

Oh, well, spoiler alert. This happens in this session as well, where a rich kid gets a car accident and someone dies, and his family covers it up, and it's a lot, and he's definitely traumatized by it. It's a whole thing, but it was obviously, like, about to have a critic. And I didn't see them, I don't know there's a movie about it, but I haven't seen that. But it's just like, it's a, what the fuck are you talking about? I've had anybody else there to be in jail forever. You can't drunk drive someone off a bridge and kill them because it's the rules.

Yeah. Cool. Well, that's all I got. That's it. That's the ninth and last of the Kennedy kids who none of them had a really great life. Despite all of their money and privilege, they were definitely, I mean, I don't know, obviously to believe in curses, but like, that's a lot of tragedy or a family. So when I think of dynastic American families, obviously the Candidies are the very first one they come to mind. Feels weird to say it this way. But, you know, I now would probably categorize the Bush family as well in that similar vein. And interestingly enough, like, it's just like they just don't have the same. Like, you never hear about them, like, killing somebody. Laura Bush definitely killed someone driving. Did she really? Laura Bush did.

Oh, yeah. When she was younger. No, but I don't know if she was drunk or whatever, but I know that that definitely happened. Well, okay. But I think also, like you said dynasties, yeah, look that up. I went to mention, like, this is also ties into, like, Kaan McGrath and like, Jenkins Khan and all things you're saying is like, you cannot have a dynasty because you're going to have dumb kids, you know?

And like, also, if you try to have a dynasty, you're going to have really traumatized kids. So, like, if Joe Kennedy is like, we have to win no matter what, we're a super rich, we'll pay for you to get out of trouble because you have to win. Like, that doesn't breed people who are going to not do stupid things, you know? Well, yeah. like hard to continue that. I don't I don't believe in like a dynastic line is just impossible because you have like an idiot like I don't know I would I would also say that I mean like with anything media related there if there are amazing Kennedys right who like lived a great life and

did great things and I mean I'm talking about the next generation's removed from this you probably don't hear about it because it's not sensational right I mean yeah I mean did do a lot of good things you're right like the special olympics is huge they did there's like so many nonprofits tied to the kennedy that's all like really really great so they definitely did a lot of good but they were like tragic and haunted i think yeah yeah uh that you should definitely not get i mean these people getting on planes like come on guys you have to have learned by now that that's just not a mode of transportation that's accessible to you anymore even if you're like a person who's like i want to buy my own little plane like

you better have made your peace with God because that's how you're going to die. I know. You shouldn't do that. It can't be like a side hustle. Like you have to have an actual job. Especially like the planes where like the JFK Jr. did the same thing that Kobe Bryant's helicopter pilot did where they were like, oh, we're not using our instruments.

We're only going to abuse visual guides. And it doesn't work in the dark or in the fog. Yeah. There's just like so many things that you're like, don't do that. I kind of feel for Carolyn the set. in that situation. She wanted to get divorced. So I was, I was casually glancing at her, her Wikipedia in the middle of this.

And it sounded like the media piece, like, I mean, she obviously knew who she was marrying, but I don't think that you know the gravity of it until you're in it. And she was just like so not about the media, so not about, just getting paparazzi all over her. Like it sounds, I mean, maybe they were going to get divorced for other reasons. anyways, but it sounded like that was a huge issue. I think so. I think so that reminded me, like, in the book, they were, like, talking about how, you know, she couldn't leave her apartment because there was, like,

paparazzi everywhere. And there's actually, like, one of the first, like, real paparazzi in the street pictures is of Jackie Kennedy. Have you ever seen that? No. It's, like, one where she was, like, walking out of a hotel and a photographer was, like, hey, she turns the smiles because she thought, thinks she might know him. He takes a picture of her, and then she's, like, get super upset,

but that was, like, one of the first, like, street paparazzi pictures, you know, before it became like everything and I don't know if you ever seen like a video of what it looks like from the other side of a paparazzi thing and like it looks horrifying you have like a hundred people screaming at you and flashing in your eyes and all of that so like that sounds terrible yeah my favorite is when celebrities lose it and break their stuff that's always fun they should man they should they should yeah well um yeah i don't know i don't know if i think this is a lot of all time yeah well i don't think so but i do think it's i think when you're like when you do so much different, when you do so many different things and you have the resources to do so many different things, bad things happen, right?

Like, I don't, I don't have a ski chalet in Aspen to go skiing, play football on. But if I did, maybe that's how I would die, right? Exactly. Yeah. No, I've never been invited to play ski football. Taylor, I do think that this is going to be like a two-hour-long episode. It is. Well, great job. It's our 10th. So, if you stuck around long enough to actually hear us, come to a close, then good for you. We appreciate it. Oh, my God, I can miss along. Thank you. Thanks, friends. Have your friends. Thanks, everyone for the feedback.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for everybody who's listening and who's been providing that feedback and checking out our episodes and especially rating us on all the apps. That actually seems to be really helpful. So usually Taylor calls it out. Yeah. So please do. Yeah. Maybe you'll do it if Fars asks. Yeah. Maybe you'll do it if Fars asks, yeah. Awesome. Well, Taylor, we'll go ahead and wrap up. Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording. Thank you. Everyone for listening.

All right. Thanks, everyone.