Doomed to Fail - Ep 105 - Examining the Great Thinker: Socrates

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Welcome to Taylor's 4th-grade Philosophy Class! We'll learn the very basics of the life of Socrates; Taylor will totally misinterpret one of his greatest edicts, “The unexamined life is not worth living,” and we'll learn a little about the life of the Ancient Greek Thinkers.The 'Doomed' part is that Socrates LOVED Athens with all his heart, and even when the gigantic jury of 501 Athenian Men find him guilty of not honoring the Gods of Athens & corrupting the youth, he still won't leave.This isn't really for 4th graders. There is some swearing.Sources:Socrates: A Man for Our Times - https://www.everand.com/audiobook/630261989/Socrates-A-Man-for-Our-TimesSocrates' Speech: Analyzing Plato's Symposium, Part VII | The New Thinkery Ep. 43 -  https://www.everand.com/podcast/697650730/Socrates-Speech-Analyzing-Plato-s-Symposium-Part-VII-The-New-Thinkery-Ep-43-In-the-seventh-installment-of-an-ongoing-series-breaking-down-Plato   Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In a matter of the people of the state of California versus Hortonthal James Simpson, case number B.A. 019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. And we're back on a sunny Wednesday afternoon morning. I don't know what it is. We're back no matter what. And Taylor, do you want to flip the script? You tell people who we are and what we're doing?

they're listening to? Yeah. Welcome to June to Fail. We are a twice weekly podcast where we tell stories about history and true crime and things that are doomed and disasters and failures. We kind of pull from everywhere. So you never know what you're going to get, but we're happy that you're here. Taylor, I'm going to tell you something that I don't know if it's cool or sad or funny and you can help me decide what it is. So I was one of my favorite podcast is you're wrong about. And And they did this episode on 10 biggest business or corporate failures. Like they, you know, Blackwester, Netflix, New Coke, stuff like that. And I was like, that is awesome.

I want to hear about all these stories. It's so interesting how a hive mindling corporation can fall so flat. And I went on the app that I use for podcast called PocketCast. and I searched business fail ire's so instead of a failure with a you I put an eye there and I didn't notice I started scrolling and all these podcasts popped up and ours was in like the first the first pages 20 and we were somewhere in the middle of it what the problem is I then changed it to failures and then we disappeared.

Why? I don't know. I don't know why that happened. And I looked at it and was like, I was so excited. I was going to take, because their search bar is hidden when you're scrolling all the way down.

And so what I was going to do was, I was like, okay, wait, so what are we? What count was that? I was going to start counting the top down. So I scrolled all the way up. And I looked at it. It was like, I missyped the word and then it showed up.

That's so weird. I don't know. I don't know if that's fun, weird, cool, or bad, but there was. I was excited because every time I run a search like that, it shows like a little checkbox next to ones that I've already subscribed to. So scrolling, it'll show like, Dan Carlin last podcast. And then I saw one. I was like, that's weird.

Which one is it? Oh, my God, that's us. Yeah, yeah. I'm excited every time I see it, like, in my list of pockets listen to. And I know that I make that list. And I actually don't care. I'm just getting excited every single time. I love it.

Yeah, if you want, I mean, friends, if you have a second, give us some reviews, great. Or subscribe and stuff. That'll put us up higher in those outputs because that'd be awesome. Yeah, maybe, maybe, you know what, guys, if y'all can get us to being in the top 20 of business failure spelled properly, you'll make us fair. That'll be like a Christmas gift for a decade.

Business. I'm going to do right now. Business, failures. Wait, I'm spelling right. Now I don't know. I'm spelling it right. Anyway, very cool. Very fun.

It's fun that when we pop up there, like, oh, hey, that person was me. I love it. I love it. Cool. Well, I will go ahead and get started. Now I want to see if I can recreate what you're doing. This is terrible.

I'm sorry, everyone who's new. Oh, my God. Okay. Are you on Pocketcast? Yeah, because you told me to be on Pocketcasts. Okay. Yeah. Like, you know, 10 years ago.

Cool. Okay, so awesome. Thank you for letting me scroll through that. Thank you of everyone who has given us reviews that helps us hop up in things. And that's how I find podcasts. A lot of times, as I like, like, you know, I'm looking at something and I'm like podcast about, da-da-da-da, and I like literally Google it, you know. Um, so I'm glad that they pop up again. Um, okay, so farce, I have been in

ancient history a little bit. We talked about Cyrus the Great in 600 BC. And then I thought that I wanted to do another, um, another ancient story. And then I totally like, bit off more than I could chew. I was like, what am I doing? I have no idea what I'm talking about. And then I got distracted by what I want to do next week. And then like, all this stuff going on. So this is going to be the most first glance junior high paper on this subject. And then maybe we can learn more later, if that makes sense. Yeah.

So we're going to go back to 470 BC, which is more recent than 600 BC. I hate it. It's so hard for me. Oh, and I was going to pretend. I was going to have you turn on your camera. and I was going to be wearing a toga made out of a sheet like I was at a frat party, but I forgot to do that. I also don't know how, but I

was going to. Because I'm going to talk about the father of Western philosophy, Socrates. Sweet. Yeah, I love that. Did you take me philosophy courses in college or school or whatever? I'm sure I took it in school, but in law school, their method of teaching is called a Socratic method, and

it's all based on Socrates and how he taught, Yeah. So I think I got a decent dose of him in law school. That's great. Well, chime in whenever you have other things to add about him. So I'm going to do some facts, some fun stories, and talk a little bit how we know anything about him at all because he didn't leave any writings. So we only have like secondhand accounts of people who knew him. And they'll talk about how he died, which will bring us back to the death penalty that I mentioned in our last episode. So the reason that we know anything about him is because his students were Plato and Xenophon. So Plato, obviously, is like another very famous philosopher. And Xenophon is the person who wrote the book about Cyrus the Great that I read for that Cyrus the Great episode as well. So he's like a philosopher, biographer, writer kind of guy. And so that's where we get the most of the stuff that we know about him is from his students talking about him.

He didn't leave us anything. But Saccharges was born in Athens, Greece, in 470 BC, and he fucking loved Athens, like, more than any place ever. Like, loved it, loved it, loved it, and I was looking up, like, where is Sparta? And, like, where is Athens? And they're just, like, it's just such a small area to be fighting constantly, you know, for all of ancient times. But he was very, like, Athenian. He loved Athens, and he fought against the Spartans in different times, and that conflict's going to go up and down. And we mentioned that a little bit.

We talked about Cyrus the Great. like all that but um but he he's he's on the athens side um so interesting because like you hear about their culture and who they are as people you know like you were all the same people like if you all were living today you would have nuked the world over 50 times again 100 percent you're like next to each other calm down and i also heard something when i was studying art history um a long time ago i think i took a class about like ancient greek architecture or something like that and one of the things that my professor had said was that the Spartans were

worried that no one would remember them because they didn't do like the philosophizing and the building. They were more focused on their people, you know, and like making their people strong and like there's like warrior class so they didn't leave anything behind that like couldn't be destroyed. You know?

Right. Right. I think of like Athens. We think of Greece. You know, we don't think of Sparta as Greece. We think of Athens as Greece. Well, it's still there also. Right. Right. Wait, was Sparta Greece? yeah it's like in Greece was Troy is Troy different no it's a good question the map that I just looked at it's like the middle of Greece is Athens the southern tip of Greece is Sparta and then like it kind of curves around and Troy is a little bit north so it's near there all the same it's all very close it's like very same people basically yeah yeah um so it also feels to me like Sacrates was never young, but he was. And we have a couple stories of him from when he was a young man. But really, we see him the way we see him in statues and in like images as like a really ugly old man. And people say that. And he like talked about being ugly. That was like one of his like kind of his virtues because he people had to like him for other reasons. He had like a hunched in nose and like big bulging eyes. And he would walk around town with no shoes on even though shoes were available. And he would just like ask people questions.

That's the method, you know, just like a guy who like is around. But he started off as a, in like a well-to-do family. His parents were sofercinesis and Fenerate. He was a stoneworker and she was a midwife. So both of his parents had jobs and he had a nice life. He was educated in the way that most Athenian men were, had a general schooling. And then he was also in the military. So he was a hoplight, which is like a, a, a, a, uh, just like a, I think it's just like a regular guy in the military, so he'd be called in, sort of not like, um, drafted per se, but like we're talking also in the Cyrus, the great one where they'd be like, come on Fars, let's go. You have to like put your buck on your hat and go. Yes. I remember.

Yeah, I'd floaties on my arms in that episode, I think. Like, let's go. And so that's, that's, I think he was that, but a little bit more prepared because he was like a little bit of a higher class guy. According to Plato, he was in three, uh, three, uh, three, different battles that were during the Peloponnesian War. It was a siege of Poitadea in northern Greece, the Athenian attack on Delium, and the expedition north to defend the Athenian colony of Ammophilus. So very Greek words. You are crushing, you are crushing those.

So there's this place in Chicago that is closed now, but it was called the Parthenon, and it was a Greek restaurant, like in Greek town in Chicago. And it's a great, a great place. And it was so fun. I used to go with my Uncle Dale all the time. And my dad and my uncle would go during their lunch breaks in the 70s. And it was the kind of place where you could like, you order the, the, the, the cheese. And they laid it on fire in front of you. And everybody goes, oh, but, you know what I mean?

It's fun. It's so fun. Unfortunately, they closed her in COVID. And but, but my sister, when she was in school later, someone asked where the Parthenon was and she said Chicago. Is that wrong? No, not wrong. So sweet. But yeah, lots of Greek battles that he was in. And then he comes back to Athens and he begins a life as a philosopher and a teacher. I don't really know what he got paid for. He didn't need that much money because he was like, I'm a philosopher. I don't have shoes kind of guy. But he also had like family money. And I imagine that like he did a little bit of teaching for money. But he wasn't like a lot of teachers during that time were like both like I'm going to teach the young men of Athens and I'm going to charge them money or I'm going to charge them. sex. And that's like a thing that would come up in this, which is like that like old man, young man sexual relationship that some of the teachers had. It sounds like Thakritus didn't

do that. But there's, but I'm not going to like say he didn't have that be a thing he did later. You know, it was very common to be like, you know, you are an older man. You're teaching a young man the ways of the world. And that includes having a sexual relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Not good. Just seeing that happened like while everything else was happening. So, Socrates was married twice. He had three children, probably. And his most favorite student, like I said, is Plato. And then Plato's student is Aristotle.

So I feel like if you were like Taylor named three philosophers, I'd be like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. And like that would probably where it ended for me. So I literally cannot think of another one. Yeah. So they're all related. One thing that it's going to lead to sort of Socrates's demise is another name that you might have heard is Aristophanes.

which is, I feel like, more comfortable saying because I've heard that name before. He was a playwright, and he wrote a play about Sacrotees called The Clouds. And in that play, he really, he shows Socrates as a person who's an atheist and who doesn't believe

in God or gods of the time. And later, Aresafides met Socrates. He didn't know him, but he met him. And he apologized, because he was like, oh, I see that that's not really like you. Because as far as religion goes, he definitely thought that there, like, was some sort of like being or beings, and he thought that God spoke to him directly, like directly

of Sacrities. It's called a demonic sign where you have an inner voice that stops you from making mistakes. And he was like, this is God talking to me. But also, I think that's just a conscience. Yeah, it's just, yeah, you're talking to yourself. I'm not super impressed. But that's like the proof that that Sacrides was in some cases religious. So some of the things that he liked and some of the things that have.

like come to us through history because he did a ton of, you know, talking and thinking. And I'll tell you kind of how he shared his ideas. But there's a Soocratic method. Do you want to tell me what that means? So the way, so the way it was, it's used is, well, I'm going to talk about it in the Congress of Law School. The way it's used was a professor, you know, calling on somebody to it was like reflective listening almost is basically the simplest way to put it was you tell me what your understanding of something was and then let me just prod i'm just gonna pull a thread and pull a thread and pull a thread until you have fully exhausted all thoughts within that concept that you're trying to articulate it was it was teaching by helping you

remove the blockers you have as opposed to just telling you know this is how it is Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's exactly right. It's teaching people to look into themselves and find the answers themselves by asking them questions. Right. Like asking them questions and pulling on that thread, like you said, I gave them to come to an answer or a conclusion to whatever they're thinking about. Exactly that. So there's that, obviously, it's still used today. There is he focused a lot on ethical focus and self-knowledge. So he said something that hurts my feelings every time I hear it, which is the, unexamined life is not worth living, which hurts my feelings because, like, no one's examining my life. I don't, I never interpreted that saying that way. My feeling is like, no one's going to write a Taylor Pinero biography. And so, like, what the fuck am I doing? No, that feels unfair.

That's not, okay. You tell me. Everybody else, like, write in and tell us of you which way you see this. I never interpreted it that way. I interpret it is like a lack of self-reflection of one life is not one that's worth living because you're never able to look outside yourself and improve and change. Oh, I like that. I never saw it as like Kim Kardashian.

That says something about me that's where I went to being like, I've done nothing. Yeah, you are a narcissist. Stop being a narcissist. I'm not a narcissist. But I, but okay, that makes me feel of it. better. Also, he linked knowledge as a virtue, you know, the more that you know, the better you will act in society. And one thing that he talked about that I made a note of is like, even if someone does something bad to you, doing something that you know is wrong in retaliation is worse, you know?

So he was definitely like, even though he was like in the military and like probably doing things like that, he was very much like the two wrongs don't make it right, you know? I don't agree with that, but sure. Sure. Also, you know, intellectual humility. So he claimed he would always be like, I don't know anything. I know nothing. I'm just like here to like guide people through things.

So that was like a big thing of his too. He was very like humble about everything that like he knew because he didn't like, he was, he would be like, oh, you know, I'm just asking some questions. You know, just a question guy. But people were like really impressed by his, you know, his questions in the way that he was getting people to think deeper. He also believed that women and men were no different intellectually, which was a new idea for that time. He thought that women should be able to do whatever they want to do. So if they want to, you know, stay at home and be a stay-at-home mom, that's fine. If they want to run for office, that's fine, which I think makes him a feminist.

And he would love Instagram reels of these, I'm sure you don't get these, but like these reels are these like trad wives who are these women who are like, I cook for my husband, I'm not a feminist. And it's like, stop being a bitch. You can do both, you know? The whole idea is that I'm going to do whatever you want. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also not the demographic for that. No, totally.

Well, I get those. I get those. And it's like, you don't have to put other people down to share everything that you're doing. That's stupid. But he was very much like, you know, women and men can both be involved in the government and involved. Obviously, like women were not, but he thought that they could. He also had his formal students, but they also had discussions at parties called

symposiums. I feel like we've lost a thread on symposiums. And now it's just like a place where you might go hear people talk. But then it was like specifically a drinking party where you would like drink a ton and everyone would give speeches, which sounds fun. That's something. I mean, that kind of is what we do now.

Like I saw a thing on also on Instagram where it was like a group of friends being like having a PowerPoint presentations about what they do for work at a party. And like that's so funny because they're telling your friends like well, they do this and this and people are like, what? Like this, don't know what you do every day you know um but you would like in the symposium you would drink wine and talk and like listen to others um i listen i listened to one of a podcast about um about philosophy that kind of went

into one of the symposiums that he was in where he talks about love and i'll tell a little bit more about that in a second um but in the meantime he's just like living his life in athens going to symposiums he has a couple students he's walking around asking people questions just like this old guy who has a lot a lot to think about. And there's a lot going on, obviously, in, like, the government and the military. And there's a leader, Pericles, another name that I've heard before. And Pericles has a mistress named Apasia of Miletus. Dear Lord, Apasia. She's also a midwife. So Apasia might have known Socrates's mom, like, through the midwife trade. And he credits her with teaching him how to do the Socratic method. He got it from Apasia. She was telling him, like, encouraging

came to ask questions and pry and try to get people to make their own opinions and he kind of learned that from her and so he pulled that from her and he said that to people he said that he got that from her um there's also a big thing happening because um you know pericles is going to die and they're in all these battles with sparta and just like always you know there's a thing that's like you know whether we win or lose is determined by god or the gods like that's that's the thing like we didn't pray hard enough. We didn't sacrifice enough animals. And one of his things was like, stop sacrificing animals, just like be a good person. And I think that the gods will be fine with that. You know, he was kind of against that. One of the things he talked about it, one of these

symposiums was about how a god couldn't be beautiful or ugly, but somewhere in between. And that's an idea he got from Apasia trying to get to this like point where things aren't black and white. You can be a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And that was one of the things that he was like talking about with people and trying to get them to think through. So, you know, he's having these conversations. There's a little bit of uprising happening around Greece. And he's talking and teaching. And it's 399 BC and shit starts to hit the fan for So you remember the play we mentioned a while back called The Clouds. That was 24 years ago at this point. And it should be a piece of the past. But plays are, this is when like the theater, especially in like,

in, like, Western world becomes the way that you, like, get your news, you know? Have you ever seen, like, a Greek play where it's, like, the chorus and the stuff? You know what I mean? I don't think I've ever seen a Greek play. There's like a... I know the structure. I understand, like, the structure and the concept of it, but I don't think I've ever seen one in person. Yeah, so the course is, like, super intense saying the same thing at the same time, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Maybe, like, one person acting, and then, like, they kind of, like, go back and forth. So everybody remembers this play. about Zacharty's, and there's also another play called The Wasps that was similarly kind of poisoning Socrates as an atheist who, and because he could argue in any direction, which is something that I'm sure you learned that in law school as well, to like argue both sides, so you understand how to do that. Because he could do that, in these plays, they had him arguing young men to hurt their fathers and being like, we can argue you out of this. Like, we can get you out of this if we

like figure out all these ways to talk about it. And so people were, you know, still kind of upset about that. That was like in there. And, you know, he definitely was like, you know, people need to be smarter. Plato would have the idea of like philosopher kings, like the people in the government should be very, very smart. So he was like also like saying that as well and kind of putting that out there to the people that he was teaching with that like we need to make sure that people in charge are super smart. And he was doing that by like teaching. And post Paracles, the Democratic government, which is like all of the men who were not slaves could vote and were like very, very involved in government.

Like they all had like a very direct like one to one vote or they were like in the Senate. There's like a lot more people. I feel like now I feel like there's too many people, but there's a lot more people in the government. And they needed someone to be mad at. You know, it's just like a everyone's kind of mad being like a common cause. So they accuse Socrates of ignoring the gods of Athens and corrupting the youth with impiety. And that's just like telling the youth to question things, which is like his whole deal. So they charge him with that and they put him on trial for those two things.

So the trial was held. Guess how many jurors there were in the trial? I mean, this is olden times, so I'd assume it's hundreds. Yeah, 5001. that's like the place that's the thing that we're doing and something that I mentioned in the book that I read that I'll put in the notes is like one thing that the Greeks were really good at was like you know they're putting on these stage plays and they're building these buildings where you can hear from really far away you know like if you were actually like in one of those buildings when they were like fully made and all the things like if someone's talking on stage and you're in the back row you can still hear them because of like the acoustics you know that they like had. But during the trial of Saccharities, they were just like in the Acropolis. And he was just like talking, but like not that loudly. And a lot of the jurors couldn't even hear him defend himself, you know?

And I mean, how big is a, how big is that? It's huge, but it's also like not built for that kind of speaking, you know? Right, right. Because if you don't have like a microphone, you have to like be in a place where it's like a natural amplifier. Right. so not everybody could hear him but in the end it was 280 for the death penalty and 221 against so he got the death penalty his friends told him to run but he wouldn't this is just like Oscar Wilde member did the same thing the friends are like you can just take a train to France and like disappear and he was like no I have to sit here you know

and I think Zachartre's is old and he was like he loved Athens so much he would never he didn't want to leave and he would never have left So the question is like, you know, why did the city of Athens turn against this man who was like such a great man of their city? And there's a bunch of reasons. And I read a bunch of different things that people thought. One of them is by an author named Andrew Irvine. He said, quote, during a time of war and great social and intellectual upheaval, Saccharges felt compelled to express his views openly, regardless of consequences. As a result, he is remembered today, not only for his sharp wit and high ethical standards,

but also for his loyalty to the view that in a democracy, the best way for a man to serve himself, his friends, and his city, even during times of war, is being loyal to and speaking publicly about the truth. So people were just, like, mad at him for trying to get people to think a little bit differently about what was going on. So he went to jail for a little bit. He tried to appeal, but the death penalty was it stuck. and he died in 399 BC, so pretty quickly, after he was convicted. He spent his last day in prison. He saw his wife and his kids.

He had actually, he was like in his 50s and he had a young kid. So he was definitely still like with his wife. And she was also. 60s? 50s, I think. Oh, 50s. Okay. Yeah.

But he had a kid. And so his wife and his kid came. and then some of his friends were there and they were like getting sad and he was like don't be sad everybody like everything is fine like this is what i want like this is this is the way it has to be and so do you remember how he dies no so he drinks poison hemlock which i always so he's like dying by suicide which i always had thought without looking it up at all that he died by suicide like by choice in jail rather than something else but that was the death penalty. So I actually didn't know that he was sentenced to death at all. Yeah. So he, what happens is he's in his cell with his friends. And the guy comes in and he says, here, drink this.

And it's like in a cup. And he, the guy says, drink this and then walk around. And when your leg start to feel heavy, lay down. So he drinks this poison hemlock, which is like a root. And he walks around and he's like, okay, I'm starting to get. tired. My legs are getting heavy and he lays down and he closes his eyes and then he kind of like rolls over and he opens his eyes and looks at his friend, his friend, um, Critcho. And he says, Christo, we owe a rooster to Asapleus. Don't forget to pay the debt, which is we owe an animal

sacrifice to the god of knowledge. Don't forget to do that. Which is like funny because he didn't believe in that anyway, you know? And then he just rolled over and died. Was it because he was like suffering from the poisoning that he said that he said that as like a joke oh okay you know like don't forget to do this animal sacrifice to this at the end of it I think

but I don't know that's my guess but isn't that an insane way for the death penalty to go they just have the drink so okay so while I was researching my case or my story I also looked up what nitrogen hypoxia is

and it's kind of like that really yeah yeah because you have to like a lot of times what they do is they just don't breathe they just hold their breath because for the execution to take place you have to volunteer well not voluntarily but you have to do something in this case and in that case breathing and then you get the the whatever whatever it does to you it happens but same kind of situation like it's almost cooler to do it that way I don't think so too I feel like it's a very slow like that and like the electric chair and like those things are like very slow

well we're sublized now taylor so we don't shoot people in the head even though that would be the most obvious way to do it i agree that's terrible but like there's no like good option but i feel that is like you don't know that's happening you know um your story wait is your story is that it for your story? That's it. That's it. I, wait, Asa, Plias, the god is a god of medicine, healing, truth, and prophecy.

Maybe I's not that wrong, but that's who it is. So it's interesting because I was just listening to, I mean, I need to stop plug in this podcast, but I was listening to Freakonomics. And the most recent episode is called, How Does the Lost World

of Vienna still shape our lives? And it was really interesting because it was apparently Vienna back like before World War I was kind of like it was kind of like the way they described it was kind of like New York City is to

to the world now where like every culture kind of goes there and then blends and ends up becoming its own unique culture where they were saying how like New Yorkers are kind of like their own different thing like they're not like other a lot of those who come up from other places but they identify as New Yorkers they get along as

as New Yorkers and how Vienna was essentially that way where it brought in all these people and one of the things that they called out specifically had to do with the vast majority of philosophers and new wave thinking all originally out of that era of Vienna and how it all just came to a crashing halt when Hitler annexed Austria and, by extension, Vienna, into Germany. And it was like, everybody just fled. It was interesting. I was like, what would have happened if he hadn't done that? Like, I mean, I don't know.

Maybe the U.S. wouldn't have developed into what it developed into or more amazing things would have came out of Vienna. I don't know, but it was just interesting how historically. the fact that you take all these like heavy thinkers the way kind of socrates are so all these guys were concentrated them into one location during one time and it just like shoots out in every other direction totally because you have like one teacher and his like student and his student and then those are three philosophers we know you know you're like that was so long ago and that was just like this one little piece of time um yeah it's interesting and then I'm also I'm looking at that that episode you just mentioned and it says they

explore how the arrival of fascism can ruin in a few years, which took generations to build. Yeah, that's what, that's what mentioned. And they were like, yeah, it was the way they described Vienna back then was like, like a paradise, like an intellectual paradise, where everywhere you went, you were going to be around the smartest people in the entire world. And all of them just were like, we got out of here. Yeah, yeah, that totally makes sense.

I'll listen to that. That's interesting. Yeah, I feel like. like, man, like we're watching the Benjamin Franklin show on Apple Plus. It's so good. It's called Franklin. But it's just like it shows like pre. It's obviously like during a revolutionary war and Franklin is in Paris to try to get

the French to help and like Lafayette is there and like a lot of people that we know we're there. And John Adams has just arrived and it's so funny because John Adams hates everybody. It's just delightful. But like the world that they're living in is so ridiculous. It's like they live. Living these places, and everybody's just, like, so dressed up. Like, even, like, the men have, like, on, you know, powdered faces and blush.

And then, like, they have these, like, it's just huge parties. And, like, Benjamin Franklin's son or grandson, goes to Versailles and Lafayette is like, oh, you can't wear it. Let's get your new clothes. They just, like, call in all these tailors and they make him new clothes. There's all the place to stay. And people are just, like, hanging out. You're like, what is this weird, courtly life, you know?

I mean, we could just do that. We could just start dressing up everywhere we go. I did think that if we ever do a live show, I do want to wear a ball gown. because, like, I don't really wear ballgons very often. Whoops. There was a bark there. Yeah, well, we'll have to, we'll have to plan our first, you know, we'll call Madison Square Garden and see if they'll be able to occupy our audience.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Well, thanks for Shane, that was cool. Yeah, thank you. I wish, I do want to learn more, but I feel like whatever you learn in school, it's like, it just goes straight through you, you know, like in high school. you're like, whatever. In college, they make you take a good introdive philosophy course.

I was looking at my college transcript the other day for like, no reason. And I got like a B minus and introdive philosophy. And I'm like, that tracks. I was 18. I was scared. I thought about like, man, if I could go back to like college and law school, I would have paid so much more attention of that than like the stupid things that I paid attention to. I know.

It's such a bummer. But like, also like, I had a good time, but also like poop. I should have done a little bit more. I know, but it was, but this conversation with you, it took me back to law school. I was really just reflecting back on specific classes and picturing specific professors, like, boy posing questions to me. And I was like, oh, yeah. That's fine.

That was nice. So. I do like that. I like the method. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Cool of it.

Sweet. Do we have any other listener? We do. I'm going to send you a audio clip, um, from Morgan. our friend and listener because she sent me an audio clip because I've mentioned during Cyrus the Great episode how fun it is to say nebuchadnezzar and she sent me like a 10 second audio clip of her saying that nebuchadnezzar in Hebrew in the Old Testament in the Hebrew Bible and it's great so I will give you that and you can play it now wait are you to send it to me right now

no I just did that place so you can splice it in oh got it And I'm going to be like, whoa, that's cool. And here we're going to play the clip that Taylor sent me. I'm like assuming you could do this in Grash Band, or wherever you. I can. Yeah, totally. I'll send it to you. Whatever.

Nebuchadnets are. Cool. Thanks, Morgan. Thanks, friends. Also, just another plug. Yeah, I'll plug for a listener survey. I will put it out there. But please let us know who you are so we can find more of you.

because we're so appreciative of you and we know there's more of you out there yes there's millions uh there's millions of you so please tell us that you exist tell us who you are we love it um awesome again duminifel pod at gwill.com the social or dupinifel pod write us on anything we're monitoring all those um otherwise thanks taylor yeah thanks fars cool we'll chat later i'll pause this You know,