Doomed to Fail - Ep 113 - Bad Presidents: #7 - The Deranged Andrew Jackson

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

Andrew Jackson - orphaned by age 14, really became President of the United States and spent his time promoting slavery, denying Federal Aid to states, and pushing Native Americans west during the "Trail of Tears." Described as both a true White Supremacist and the first Pro-Slavery President - "King Andrew" is first on our casual list of Bad US Presidents. Could you imagine if that man had Twitter?Sources:https://www.ahcpodcast.com/e/andrew-jackson/https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bradley-cooper98/episodes/Andrew-Jackson-er8mvjhttps://www.heraldandtribune.com/news/local/andrew-jackson-meets-the-bell-witch/article_d382f08a-6f83-11ee-b19a-87815f024f83.html Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

It's a matter of the people of the state of California versus Hortonthall James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Boom. Taylor, we are back on a sunny, beautiful Wednesday morning. How are you doing? Good. I'm assuming it's sunny and beautiful. How are you?

I was talking to my sister in Austin, and it looks hot as balls. And it's humid. So here's the thing. I'm in Dallas, obviously. And Dallas is typically a few degrees cooler than Austin is always. And so it is not terrible, but I'm assuming it will be when I get home later today. Yeah. Remember when you got home that one time when your entire cowboy pool was evaporated?

It wasn't evaporated. I was such an idiot. You can't evaporate 700 gallons in like a couple of days. Because I was like, that's crazy, but did it have a lot on it? Yeah. whole of it. And it happened over and over again. And so I refilled it because I'm an idiot. And I thought it had it evaporated. So I refilled it. And it was gone the next morning. And I was like, well, that was like $300 worth of water. Just gone.

Oh my God. That's so funny. Well, good to know. Yeah. hilarious. You're so much. Well, welcome to do to fail. I'm Forrest joined here by Taylor. We're going to be covering a story that Taylor is going to make me guess that has deemed to fill components to it. Cool. Um, yeah, let me get my sting. um so okay i i lost your face i um

was going to i started reading a book on Alexander the Great and then they got an email that Dan Carlin started his Alexander the Great series so I was like who am I to do this before I know how to pronounce everything via Dan Carlin so yeah I'm not going to

be an asshole and not and not do that. You don't want to upstage him as what you didn't want to do. For real, for all. Yeah, no, I'm going to learn how to say all sorts of things. I'm like, already in the book I was reading, they were saying Macedonian,

which I know is Macedonian. So, like, come on. Ridiculous. Are you sure about that? Yeah, I'm sure whatever Dan Carlin says. Okay, got it. So I was like, forget it. I'm going to wait on that.

And then next week, I am actually going to start a four-part series that I'm very excited about that I'll tell you about next week. But in the meantime, I have a casual series. So this is just like some like a fun thing that has like a thread and like maybe I'll do a couple more. Maybe I won't. I don't know. But I'm going to do a series on Bad Presidents. And guess what I'm going to start with?

He's an early one. Garfield? No, he's number seven. I don't know. It's Andrew Jackson. Okay, yeah, yeah. So let's talk about this asshole, Andrew Jackson. He's a yeoman.

So, the what? He's a yeoman. A what? Is he a yeoman? Isn't he like a farmer? No. Oh, okay. I'm thinking about the wrong one.

No, he was a plantation owner. He didn't do any farming. He wasn't Lincoln's VP. was he? No. This is the way before. Lincoln's like 17. He's seven. Got it. Okay. Carry on. So, so there's a lot of so many podcasts on Andrew Jackson, but I've listened to two like random ones that I found, one called Asshole Court and one called ranking the U.S. presidents. And the facts are different kind of in both. Like it's kind of like some of them are,

they tell kind of different stories. But one thing that they did in each of them that like hold out and kind of really talked about what what an asshole andro jackson is um asshole court they literally looked at the dictionary definition of a white supremacist and you could like put a picture of andrew jackson next to it what is the definition i will tell you i have right now it is the belief that white people constitute a superior race and should therefore dominate society typically to the exclusion or detriment of other racial and ethnic groups so that's andrew jackson in a nutshell And then also, the other one, ranking the presidents, called him the first really pro-slavery president. That's not good.

Not good. These are those things that are good. That's a little bit of context. Another thing is when we first started doing this podcast and we were like focusing on relationships that were doomed to fail, I definitely was looking up things that were like, what are some famous historical relationships that were doomed? and Andrew Jackson and his wife, Rachel, are always on that list. And I was just like, I don't really want him to be lucky in love. So, meh. You know, so I'll tell you a little bit about what that looks like in a little bit.

So Andrew Jackson, the seventh president of the United States, was born on March 15, 1767. He was born in the United States, but his parents were Irish immigrants. And he had two older brothers that were born in Ireland and then. came to America. His parents' names were Andrew Jackson and Elizabeth Hutchinson. His mom, like, really hated the British, like, hated them. So she really wanted her sons to be, like, patriots and, like, in the Revolutionary War. His dad died in a logging accident at the age of 29, three weeks before Andrew Jackson was born, and he never met him. Do you know what other president's dad died before they were born?

Bill Bomas? Bill Clinton. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. Bill Clinton's last name, Clinton, is the name of his mom's remarriage. But Bill Clinton's dad, Jefferson Blythe, died in a car accident three months before Bill was born. Wait, so his name was supposed to be Bill Blythe? Yeah. Doesn't have the same ring to it. It's weird.

I know. Isn't that wild? It just like Clinton just feels like the thing. So Jackson had two older. brothers, Hugh and Robert, and two older brothers went off to the Revolutionary War. During the war, Hugh dies of heat exhaustion, which sounds terrible. And so Elizabeth sent Andrew. So now all of her sons are in the war. In April 1781, Andrew's just 14, and him and his brother get captured by the British. So he's like really young when he's going through this like, he's like in the war. And there's a story where a British soldier tries to make Andrew polish his boots and he says no so he slashes him with like

a sword or a knife or something and Andrew Jackson will have a scar on his side forever from that encounter. How is it the British or like the villain in everything? This is why and this is 100% why. It's so bad.

Yeah. So I mean they're the villain because of the Revolutionary War. That's why we make the villain and everything. They were horrible to everybody. They were horrible to India that were horrible to like I mean that's true I mean yeah it's like deserved yeah you're absolutely right yeah well they did help us out with the whole Hitler thing

so I guess they get at some ways yes I feel like later we get into that when they're like and that's when their empire also dissolves so you know it happens so while he's captured you know he's obviously

things aren't great he gets smallpox it's like They, like, lose a bunch of weight, him and his brother are both really, really sick. His mother negotiates to get them back in, like, a prisoner exchange, and they have to walk home, and it's, like, 40 miles and a terrible. And at the time they get home, his brother got home, like, just in time to die there. So Andrew, Andrew's brother dies at home. And his mom was so sad, but she, like, liked nursing the kids. So she decided to become a nurse in a cholera hospital. And, of course, she gets cholera and dies, like, right away.

So Andrew Jackson is an orphan. at around 14 years old. So that sucks. It's a pretty rough childhood. You've already, like, been to Warren back and your whole family died. At 14. At 14. So this is also the time when, like, you a 14-year-old is like, can be on their own.

You know, like, I don't really know, like, what he did. I don't think, I don't think that's, I know that's the custom, but I don't think that's good. No, no, no. I don't think so either. Like, what are you supposed to do? So during his life, he's going to be described as, like, very violent. he takes things really personally he's very religious in like a way that he's like manifest destiny god made this space for white people like that's sort of his vibe but he after he's 14 he like becomes

like yada yada yada he becomes a lawyer so it's one of those things like you don't have to go to law school you just have to like study under someone or whatever so he's a a lawyer and he starts to do kind of some like interesting interesting like anecdotes from his from his young life. He is in several duels. His first duel is with a man named Wait Still, Avery, and they both end up shooting up into the air.

So, like, duels are still a thing, but they're, like, illegal in some places and, like, legal in others, and, like, it's a whole thing. But he does get in his first duel during this time. Also, as soon as he gets a little bit of money, guess what he buys? A slave. Indeed. He does.

The first thing he does when he gets a little bit of money, is he buys a person. It's a woman who's about his age. And some of the things I listen to, you know, there's the like, you're a person of your times, which I hear that argument, but also I counter with the argument

that of the founding fathers, Ben Franklin, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Payne, and Governor Morris were all outspoken abolitionists. So it's not like everyone is doing it. Not everyone was. I was thinking about how, how dealing with people in the,

nuances and complexities of what they think about and feelings, all that stuff is like the worst part of like just any kind of dynamic I'm in. And I'm like the thought of buying a person. Never mind the moral

objections to it. It just sounds like a fucking pain in the ass. Just like having another person to deal with. It's like, oh God. Now I've got to do with this thing over here. Like it's just like yeah. That's so funny. You're so funny. so so he is like you know and even like i also said before like george washington and thomas jefferson

you know they owned slaves they were not nice to their enslaved people um and but they wrote about how it should end they wrote about it being like a bad practice but they still didn't stop it because they were like yeah but then i wouldn't make any money you know that makes sense so they had that and then but you know whatever andrew jackson was like super excited to be able to start enslaving people he becomes a judge and he's living at this house of an older widow which also i think is wild because like you're like renting a room but you have an enslaved person like do they live where do they love where do they love that's why i don't understand about the whole like you have a person like i don't do you take them with you to like the store like i think yes it's like it's really bad

it's really strange yeah it's really strange and so i think that um yeah there's another story that I didn't put in my outline but like where like when he was president he had an enslaved person just like sleep next to his bed on the floor if he needed anything in the middle of the night like wild again that's harder than not having him there yeah so he's but he's living in his house and he meets the daughter of the widow her name is Rachel Rachel is married to someone else and her husband is like a four out of ten he's like not a great guy and um eventually they do get separated and they get divorced but before they're divorced rachel a and d'ra jackson are essentially living together so like they fall in love they're living together so she gets accused of bigamy because she's like obviously living with someone else while she's married to someone else and it's like pretty scandalous and it will always be kind of something that like hangs over him as like a scandal but he marries rachel they buy a plantation and um they start like live their life they're never going to have any kids but they you know start their life together they start like

enslaving more people eventually he will own about 150 enslaved people on his plantations so now andrew jackson is getting into politics and this is like this could be a thousand different episodes but i'm just going to like zoom us through it but he loves states rights he doesn't want any federal power that's like his like big thing he's part of the democratic republican party which like i do not understand this is when people are like i'm a jeffersonian democrat or i'm a wig or I'm a blah, blah, blah. And it's, like, a little bit confusing, like what exactly that means or how we could translate it to today.

But he definitely, like, hates a national bank. He wants everything to be, like, state side. He goes to Congress for a little bit, but only for, like, half a term. And then he goes back to becoming a judge. He gets in another duel with the Tennessee governor, John Seaver, because Seaver had insulted Rachel. She's like an easy target in this because they're like, oh, your wife was married to someone else when you met her. You know?

All right. So this is going to come up again and again. So he is living in Tennessee. They have been making fun of the husband who got his wife stolen. No, because it's always the woman's fault. Huh. So he's living in Tennessee. and he you know it's also like a thing to note he's like not a he's like not a kind enslaver he at one point

some one person runs away and he offers $10 per 100 lashes up to 300 that anyone's willing to give him which essentially would kill would have killed that person so he basically is like I'll give someone $30 to kill this enslaved person who ran away from me so that's $3,000. $300? $10 per lash for 300 lashes? No, no, per 100 lashes. $10 per 100. Oh, oh, got, okay.

Yeah. So something happens in 1805 where it's kind of a complicated story that has to do with like betting on horses, but this feels like a very like kind of silly gentlemanly back and forth between him and this man named Charles Dickinson. So they're like mad at each other because of money and because of like horse racing and like something. and they're just like sending insults to each other like Dickinson writes in the paper that Andrew Jackson is quote a worthless scoundrel a Paul Trune and a coward and I looked up Paul Trun and it just means coward so he just said a coward twice but he's like they're like spewing insults back and forth they're mad about money they're mad about a thing the story's like long and dumb but in the end Andrew Jackson blames Charles Dickinson for talking shit about Rachel Dickinson says if he did talk shit about her he was drunk and he apologized but then someone else got like meddled in and there was like a cane involved everybody's fighting so these guys decide to duel again so it's like at least his third duel

if not more than that and dueling was illegal in tennessee where andrew jackson lived so they went to kentucky on may 30th 1806 and something else happened where there was like a coin a coin toss and they said fire quicker than they were supposed to but dickinson shoots and he hits andrew jackson in the chest and the bullet lands in his heart and it will be there forever. He doesn't die, but he will always have a bullet in his heart. Geller, I am, if I was born at this time, I

somebody should have just fucking thrown me off a cliff. Like, I never would have survived. This guy's been the war has faced slash by his 14. He's shooting guns at each other. Like just, I know. It's just like crazy. They're crazy people. It's so dangerous to be alive. Yeah. And this is like, it's like, instead of just like yelling at someone, you're like, okay, now we're going to duel. I'm going to shoot you bananas. I mean, in hindsight, if you think, like, the guy owns slaves and is hitting them,

it's like he's letting people shoot guns at himself. So, like, that's how much for guard he has for his own life, which is for somebody else. Exactly, exactly. So he, um, so something happens and they say, like, we're going to shoot, um, at the same time. And so Jackson gets shot. And then the rules are, if you shoot someone, you have.

have to stand still and let them have a chance to shoot you, which also was like a rule I would not abide by. I would run away. So the Jackson shoots Dickinson and kills him. So he does kill his like potentially first person he ever killed in a duel in 1806. And like some people are like that is dumb and it kind of like tarnishes his reputation, but like not enough that he's not like going to be president. you know what I mean um he also during this time becomes friends with Aaron Burr who obviously also famously was in a duel and Aaron Burr like comes over and they try to invade Florida together in in a way that is like a shenanigans that we could talk about later but basically also during this time the Spanish own Florida and that's going to be a big part of it as well he sounds like every like very like very confident drunk frack guy I knew in the college yeah absolutely yeah like So now, Andrew Jackson was in the military. He's going to get called back into the military.

It's a war of 1812. There's a lot of little wars, and we should talk about the war of 1812 and like a whole thing. Like Washington, D.C. burns down. Dolly Madison saves that famous portrait of George Washington from the White House. And long story short, there are a couple little tiny wars inside of the war of 1812. There's one called the Creek War, where Inderjointed, Jackson will get shot again in the shoulder, not in the battle, but because of like a dispute over honor. But he will survive that one as well. But like we were being shot too much, sir. So during the Creek War, some native tribes were aligning with the British because they were like trying to stop the United States from like taking all of their land. And they wanted to be recognized as like sovereign nations within like the land that the United States was trying to take over. One tribe that he had a skirmish with. was the red sticks. He essentially was like a scorched earth policy. He killed all of them.

Women, children, everyone, like his troops went in and like destroyed the red sticks because they were aligning with the British. He also brings troops down to New Orleans. And you'll remember that the Creole people are there and they're French from Canada. And he institutes martial law immediately in New Orleans and like kind of takes over. And he kicks all the French people out and, like, takes control of New Orleans. And he gets criticized for having martial law a little bit, like, too heavy-handed, you know, creating these little bands of people and, like, doing all this stuff. I mean, I will say so far, nothing about what you've said at all lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All his behavior in the things that he's done, it's like,

oh, yeah, that's what that person would do. Yep, exactly, exactly. So he, um, So he does at this point create a little army of like volunteers and he paid everyone the same based no matter what race they were, which is great. Very nice. But he then another little war during this time is a seminal war. He really hates Native Americans and he really wants them to move west. He creates a bunch of treaties that are all kind of bullshit. So like the whole history of this is like treaties that like we were never going to abide by. You know, they were always going. going to push people west real quick do you know what other person you dislike also did that who so henry ford one of the ways that he became like famous for workers rights was because he would pay he up the price per day of a worker to five dollars and everybody regardless of race made five dollars and that was like the first time that ever happened i said there's no podcast about that and i was like huh it's weird interesting and i feel like maybe it's It's just like, yeah, I wonder, I wonder what that's about, you know, just like I need workers and whatever, you know.

Yeah, I forgot what it was. It was, oh, it was, oh, God, that famous boxer was trying to buy like a Ford factory in, or a Ford, whatever. I'm derail me. Go ahead. Keep going. No, no, no, but I understand. So, okay, in the middle of this, oh, so he does also get investigated by Congress in 1819 because he, he, essentially, on his own, went into Florida and fought the Spanish. And they were like,

you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to wait for Congress to declare war. But they let him but he was like, so people in D.C. like knew him. It's kind of badass. Yeah. Yeah. So, oh my God, the mid-jurney pictures that I made of Andrew Jackson are unhinged. He's like wild on a horse. Like I can't wait to show you. It's crazy. In the middle of this, do you remember this that he meets a ghost, the bell witch? No. So last pocket on the left in an episode. I know. I never listen to the bell, which one. So it's like, it's silly, you know, it's like a house that, like, a family said that, like, a woman was there. And at one point, Andrew Jackson comes.

And Henry goes, the ghost looks to Inter Jackson and says, first of all, fuck you, which I thought was really funny. But there's this, I read this hilarious, definitely not true encounter that, like, made the ghost a lot more palpable. It was, like, knocking and, like, whatever. But in the story that I read, they said that Andrew Jackson was, like, going towards the house, like, see if you could help. And then the carriage she was in just, like, totally stopped. And then they got out of the carriage, and Andrew Jackson was like, what were we talking about when the carriage stopped? And they were like, we were talking about the witch.

So he was like, did she hear us? And then from the bushes, they heard someone say, right, you are a general. Now I'll let the wagon move on. Farewell. I'll see you tonight. So like the witch said that from like the bushes. And they went to the house. And then when they got there, he kind of got in a gunfight with the witch.

And he was like, I'm going to shoot you. which is like, I don't think you can shoot a ghost. Again, this all sounds like it aligns with the kind of behavior you've described so far. He sounds like a crazy person. He's a crazy person. Like, you can't shoot a ghost, sir. He's a 14-year-old orphan. Like, this is what happens.

So, that's hilarious and like, whatever, like that. But he was definitely there, whatever, whatever happened, whether or not he tried to shoot the ghosts. Don't do that. I recommend not shooting ghosts. So now he becomes governor of Florida, and he wants to run for president. Of course. The presidency was, there were like several people running for president in this year that he ran the first time. And it ended up, no one got all the electoral votes.

And it went to Congress and ends up with John Quincy Adams becoming president. So he goes back to Florida. He's there for a little bit. And then he runs to president again. So when he runs to president again, it's like very, very. very, very stressful for Rachel. They break up the affair and all the stuff all the time. They also have like these things called the coffin hand bills,

which are like flyers that say Andrew Jackson is a murderer. Like he's murdered this many people during all these things and like literally pictures of coffins on them being like, he's crazy. Like let's not let him be president. But he does win. And right after he wins, Rachel dies. She gets really sick and from the stress and she dies. So that's something weird.

I mean, he loved her. It's just that, like, it was always hanging over his head. Yeah. You know? So she dies, and he's going to be sad about that forever. Andrew Jackson also is going to win two terms. So the next two-termer will be Abe Lincoln. So between 7 and 17, everyone will only have one term.

If that makes sense. Or 16th, whatever. So a couple things that he did before we get to the big thing. And there's so many things that we could, like, go into like individually on here um but uh let's do a couple of things so he um andrew jackson is again like a state's rights guy he used the veto more times than anyone had done before in all of history combined and the things that he vetoed were like state things were like indiana needed roads and maryland needed a bridge and he was like no no no why did he want to be

president when he didn't believe in the rights of the federal government It's a good question. I have no idea. Stay governor of Florida. That's like the perfect spot to be. Exactly. Exactly. He hates the national bank. So Hamilton had like made a national bank and like this is when it came up for like re like certification or whatever.

And he vetoed that as well. There's going to be a lot like a little bit of like a panic in like 1837. So like the economy is not going to do not going to do well. There's an affair that it's not an affair, but it's called the Eaton affair where the secretary of War's wife, Margaret, was being accused of being, like, promiscuous. And that reminded him of all the accusations against Rachel. So he, um, defended her and fired members of the cabinet who were, like, making fun of this woman.

And one person that kind of stepped up and took his side was Martin Van Buren and he will become the vice president and then become president. So that's kind of his path was like, while Andrew Jackson was busy being like, incents of this woman's honor was being questioned, Martin Van Buren was like, yeah, sir, this is totally normal. literally, literally how we're going to get our next vice president. Yeah, exactly. Oh, all those scandals are totally normal, sir. So he's a little bit of international stuff. He just tried to get some of our,

some of the money back from the ships that were lost in the Napoleonic Wars. So he tries to get money back from other countries. He does pay off a national debt, which is the only time that's ever happened. Seriously? Yeah. So did you hear how by 2030, I think it was, the national debt of the United States will equate to every person and child owing $1 million? It's so hilarious. Like, what does it even mean? What does that even mean?

Like, this is dumb. Like, sure, I owe you a billion dollars. I'll pay you later. It's crazy. You know, whatever. So he also was involved in Texas, in how the Texas becomes a Texas Republic. the last day of Andrew Jackson's presidency, he will recognize the Republic of Texas as a country.

And as far as like as slavery goes while he's president, it's not like in any of his like bills or anything, but he does like at one point there's a newspaper for abolitionists and he orders everyone who subscribes to it to have their name listed publicly, which is like dangerous and definitely a threat. You know. And there's more things that, that he did so eventually um andrew jackson is going to get like attacked in his last um his his last

term as president by a man who who wants to kill him and his like he tries to shoot him twice and the gun doesn't work and Andrew jackson's like trying to hit him with his cane he's like old and like all these things are happening so like people like he's just like living in this violent time um eventually Andrew Jackson obviously like does die of of old age essentially um let me see he dies in um he dies in 1845 so he'll die later but one thing that I wanted to make sure that we mentioned while we were here is the big thing that he did and do you know what that is the big bad thing there's so many bad things but the big bad thing oh god no it's the Indian Removal Act a.k.a. A.k.a.a. that's a big one. So I feel like we learn about the Trail of Tears in elementary school,

you know, as a time when the Native Americans were forced to move west. And it was something that, like, wasn't 100% popular with, like, everyone in Congress, but, like, the act very, very narrowly passed. But it was Andrew Jackson. He wrote it. This is what he wanted this is part of the like white people need to be in charge we need more land so we can have more plantations and like grow more shit so we wanted to move to move west the native americans we don't need more land there's so much freaking land there's so much land um but the um so they wanted to move west and in that there's all the people living there obviously and so all these native american people are like this is our country like we want to be be a nation and so they would try to

negotiate but really at the end they like didn't they were like um they were like we need to get these get these people out of the east move them as far west as possible um so that we can um so that we can take over so in some places like there were um you know obviously this is like the belief that like the Europeans are like a better a better nation one like wild quote from um Andrew Jackson is he says quote what good man would prefer for our country covered with forests and ranged by a few thousand savages to our extensive republic, studded with cities, towns, and prosperous farms, embellished with all the improvements which art can devise or industry execute. Occupied by more than 12 million happy people and filled

all the blessings of liberty, civilization, and religion, end quote. We literally all chose when we went remote to move in the middle of nowhere, so we meet closer to nature and for the public. We yearn for the forests. I'm really scary. There's not a single desktop backdrop that isn't landscape of nature versus like a thousand percent street signs everybody wanted that

Jackson now we're now we're stuck trying to get back to it um so he also used like biblical narratives to be like you know we need to go we need to do this and also like trying to um you know if people didn't comply like they would they would get killed

um another thing that I didn't realize as much as like I, when you first hear it, you know, I imagined, so like some of the tribes with the Cherokee, the Choctaw, and I always pictured when I was a kid, like Native Americans dressed like typical Native Americans, like walking west, you know. And then the Trail of Tears obviously is called that because they had to like walk really far, walk west, people died of exposure, starvation, all the things. It was terrible. But another thing that like I didn't realize is a lot the people had already assimilated to Western culture. So there were like Cherokee people who were Christian, who, you know, were going to, like,

United States schools and, like, assimilating. And they made, they made them leave too. So it wasn't like a point number two, never, never buy into the religion in the mandates of the oppressor. Yeah. Every person, oh, God, sorry, I'm, like, having flashbacks right now. Growing up, I had a lot of friends were, like, Indian, like, not Native American, but, like, from India. And they were, like, crazy, diehard Christian. They were, like, preach to me.

And I was like, dude, you're from, your one generation removed from, like, Gandhi's, India. Like, this is literally just British fucking mind-fuckery happening. and you're like weird yeah anyways no because I mean they made them leave anyway which is just like wild and like unbelievable and so they were just there's a lot of like treaties

that were not not true you know and also like some of the treaties they would make with like different parts of the tribes so they'd be like make a small coalition make a treaty and then be like oh this is now this is real when they'd be like not everybody agreed to that you know so they were doing a lot of like

nefarious things. Some of the tribes obviously did not want to go. And so there was like war and a lot of people died. A lot of the tribes would work with free or escaped enslaved people. But there's going to be a lot of wars. And thousands of people are going to die and move on and be forced west. And as we know, there is no more west you can go. They're just forced, you know, to go into reservations if if they are, you know, kept alive. And it definitely is one of those things that, like, has a lot of similarities to, like, you know, manifest destiny, Laban's realm. Like, where are the white people we should be able to move and, like, take over. And so that's really, that's his, like, worst thing.

And then when Andrew Jackson stops being president, I know Martin Van Buren makes sure that it's finished. So he's really, like, making sure that they finish the trail of tears, finish getting people out so that white people can continue. to go and, like, safely move, move west. Here's my, I don't know this, I can't say this on the authority, really, but I will, there does seem to be some allusions to that, to, like, things like invading Iraq and, like, things like, we deserve it, kind of a vibe of, I don't know. The manifest that same thing doesn't feel like it's totally gone. no absolutely not i think i think you're absolutely right yeah which is so silly because like

i just i know everything we're talk about i'm like why do people keep hurting each other it's so dumb like we're just all people like we could all be we could all have food and everything would be fine you know like it's not there's no reason to do this but we keep doing it over and over again yeah silly which how old was he when he died uh uh He was old. Oh, my God. The last portrait of him when he's old, he looks terrible, which is great. He was 1845, 1967, or 45 minus 17, 67, 78.

Pretty old. He never remarried. Yeah. He lived a crazy life. A crazy, like, violent life. Yeah. That's why he's always listed on these. lists of like one of the craziest presidents all of that um and it sounds like he was um it sounds

he was uniquely violent to make russian i think so i definitely think so and it was a time where like you were able to be a little bit violent because you were able to be like in all these big wars you know and you were able to um be in duels and not like go to jail forever which it feels like you should do if you are. Like when your APA research includes just like print material of coffins. Yeah, exactly. He sounds like a fucking crazy guy.

Yeah. And like that's the thing. You're talking about, hold on. I'm bringing this thing. Jackson had a reputation for me short, tempered and violent, was terrified his opponents. Yeah, he did.

He did. He sounds really aggressive. He sounds like a very mean, mean man. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But also, again, putting these in context, like, if you're orphaned at 14. Yeah, and you have to like fend for yourself and like all these things.

Like he didn't, he wasn't, I mean, it probably wasn't going to be like a happy guy, but still. It's like you watch like documentaries are like people in prison and it's like they'll kill somebody over like a piece of cornbread or something. And it's like, yeah. Yeah, because like that's not normal social behavior. But if you're put in that environment, like I guess like that's how you. adapt and evolve. Yeah. It's not good.

I'm not saying I like it. Yeah. His circumstances definitely led him in like a really weird, bad direction. Yeah, the tendency to take things personally, even if someone crossed him, he would often, oh, sorry, if someone crossed him, he would often become obsessed with crushing them. Cool. Totally normal. Imagine if he had Twitter.

All the crazy things he might have. spewed out in all caps. I think we're, I think we're, I don't we've already seen that. Yeah. Imagine. We've already seen that. Um, cool.

It's like a lot of people by Interjects. And then there's a couple other ones. I mean, no precedent is all good, but there's a couple that are particularly bad. So I will pull from those, from those lists in the next couple months until you go to the I, um,

it's interesting. I was, because, you know, if you're keeping. track of this election cycle so much of it is revolving around the economy and how people feel about that economy. And I was listening to this one podcast with these two economic journalists or economy journalists, whatever. And the way they're kind of articulating is like, listen,

like a president can do some things, but it will not ever, it will rarely ever be deterministic of how you feel about the economy. The way you feel about the economy is so subjective towards, like, your socioeconomic status and the things that are impacting you directly. And, and, I don't know, when you're talking about, like, what's going on with, like, good presidents and bad presidents? It's like, what even does that mean?

Like, what even does, like, a good, what does a good president do? What does a bad president do? And, like, now I think that we're thinking about, like, the economy is, like, a good president, man, just a good economy. How much control do you have over that? Yeah, I know. You really don't. Like, you really, and it's not like you can turn it around or destroy it in like an hour. You know, like it takes like a long time. It's not like a, it's not like a one thing. Like they're definitely like presidents can make decisions that are like good or bad subjectively. But like who knows? Like what does that mean for like everything? And that was the entire point. Yeah. Yeah. Like a ridiculous national debt. Like who cares?

I mean, as long as I'm not directly responsible for it. I mean, we kind of are because we're going to pay taxes on it forever, but like, we're not going to pay it off. It's fair. That's fair. Well, Taylor, thank you for sharing. Anything you want to lead, tie us, or end us on? No, just thank you, everyone, for listening. Please tell your friends, please give us a review so more people can find us, because that would be awesome.

At Doomedepel pod. Yeah. Yes, Dumaupon.com. Also on the social's at Dumbnafell pod. and I will not be using my crappy headset next week, so you'll enjoy my voice and all its buttery spin-ness. Oh, my God, I can't wait.

Thank you. Cool. We'll go ahead and cut that off.