Doomed to Fail - Ep 131 - Titans of Tech: The PayPal Mafia - Part 2

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

In Part 2 of our PayPal series, we dig into the men who built it and the things that they built next. We'll talk about what a Venture Capitalist is and how even when they fail sometimes when they hit it BIG they hit it REALLY, REALLY big. The names of these guys & their businesses are EVERYWHERE! What do you think they are up to next? Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

It's a matter of the people of the state of California versus Hortonthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for a country. We're recording. This is not for real, Taylor. Yay. While you spin your yarn, I will spin you a yarn.

How does that sound? I love it. I'm putting, I should put my Fitbit on because, fun fact, if you are taking your, yarn from the store and making it yarn balls that counts the steps on your Fitbit. That's, I, you know, I guess you're right, and it's also against the spirit of using a Fitbit, but

that's okay. It doesn't matter. I'd be like, how did I walk 9,000 steps today? I'm like, oh, I just sat on the couch and bald yarn. We are going to congratulate our friends, Katie, and Alex Schmidt, for the birth of their beautiful daughter. Woohoo! Wait, was it yesterday or

today? I can't tell from this birth certificate. Isn't it supposed to be on the birth certificate? Why on Earth do the birth certificate? What are you talking about? Alex sentence me. The thing with the footprint on it, is that the birth certificate? Introducing a precious new arrival. It has a name. Oh yeah. Okay. So it was Thursday, August 15th. It's a birth announcement. It's 7.50 p.m. Yeah. Whatever. Yay. No, it's from, it's from Kaiser Permanente. Yeah, but that's not like a, um, whatever. It's much harder to give a certificate. You have to like call the government. You get it like three months.

Anyway, congratulations for our friends. They just had their beautiful baby girl. Everybody's happy and healthy. And man, what a time to be alive. We're definitely getting up there. Everybody has kids, except me. So there you think. My daughter's almost 10, so here we are.

It's crazy. That is crazy. I know. Wow. Let me introduce us, and I'm going to say something else about our friends. All right. This is going to hopefully go well. Let's hear it.

Welcome to Dune to Fail, a podcast where we bring you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week, every week. Today is Wednesday. I am Taylor. We are joined by Fars, as always. And I have decided to do one of the pettiest things I've done in a while, which is to copy and paste the followers of our podcast on Instagram and copy and paste my followers on Instagram and figure out which one of my dumbass friends are not following us. did you find out no I'm still cleaning up my spreadsheet I have our I have our podcast followers and then I'm going to add

my followers and then get rid of the duplicates I think is what I'm going to do and then I'll be able to see who is not how are you doing that you can export your own followers no I literally spent like

five minutes scrolling all the way down to copy and paste them Taylor you're like man like you could have you could have ran the world i got annoyed so i was like come on but what the hell uh all if you just follow me you don't have to listen like if you're my friend you should like support me and i have like a lot of friends so i support constantly and i just feel like i don't get

the same support from them it's not you and it's not you if you're listening but it's you if you're listening to this in a year because you finally decided to catch up you know what's funny is you reminded me that there's somebody that we both know who I have gone above and beyond to try and be supportive of the things that they've chosen to do in their careers and at every opportunity if I ever try to call them or text them or reach out to them for any help whatsoever just like guiding the direction here nothing crickets and it just Can you just chat me with that person's name

in the chat here? Yeah, I'm not going to take it anymore. I'm not going to take it anymore. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. Throughout every stupid, dumb-ass career move that this guy made, I was there, be like, hey,

I don't think that's the right track, but I support you. Tell me who you need intro suits, tell me what you need. I call him up, was like, hey, I heard you're this one organization. Maybe we can collaborate, not even a call back. Yeah.

Literally the only person that I have stayed in touch with in the past like 10 years, that just literally will not call me back up or anything. Yeah. Anyways. So, dumb. Dumb. So, yeah. Well, let me know that.

Because then I can do the same thing. Yeah. I can probably get your followers or I can put it on with her. I'm sure. I'm sure. Well, so here's the thing. One thing to note, Taylor, is I did do outreach every single one of my followers. followers, but that was like when we first started.

I mean, I emailed everyone I know and still like four people sign up for our email. No, I know. I know. I'm like you can send up from my email and you can you can sign up for my email blast and you can make a filter to filter it out of your inbox and straight to trash. I don't care. Just like what I'm saying is like we might you might just need to catch people with the right time and the right day and like you know what I mean? That's why I'm going to start calling them out personally. You guys you guys got it coming. You have it going. So today is my day to share my story.

And I did, this is going to be part two of my series on the PayPal Mafia. So the first part had to do with the origin story of PayPal. And today we're going to go into the business windfall that followed the PayPal mafia, as well as calling out some of the more notable members of the, the group um because i want to kind of end this with part three being more of like the social impact of what's going on with with the what these folks have contributed which is a lot because we hear about it all the time now um it's a point to kind of put that within the context and framework of who these people are and so on and so forth i do not think a kind of a narrative on this

because i'm like i'm like it sounds really stupid and you should tell me that it's stupid but Like, I'm starting to realize, like, how vastly different billionaires are than the rest of us. Yeah. Like, I think, I think that's a good point. And I've been thinking about what you said last time where you're like, there's this, like, I need to innovate at the speed. And that is the thing that I care about the most. Yeah, I think I'm iterating that stance a little bit. Yeah.

So long story short is I get really. really excited and I text Taylor constantly when I think that we're plugged into the zeitguise. Like we caught the wave of something, you know, when it was like going to happen and we didn't realize. So the Murdoch episode we did, for example, we didn't know Netflix was producing a series about this and it was going to blow up and become super popular. We just did the episode and then like a month later they released a series and then like a few days after that he gets like convicted. Like we didn't know any of that was going to happen. It just happened. I texted Taylor because the daily did an episode where they touched on somebody

referred to the last episode having to do with Andreessen Horowitz, which is the A16 ZBC capital firm out of Solcon Valley. And I texted Taylor again yesterday because I saw that Joe Rogan's podcast, he interviewed Peter Thiel, who is considered like the Don or whatever like the main guy that paid out of mom. He was like, Taylor, I think we're on to something. There's got a reason why this stuff is hitting at the exact same time. Well, it is because I mean, it's because they're very involved in politics. And it's very, it's very, I think maybe like you were saying, maybe you'll get to you. But I think it's very interesting that like the social parts is not that they seem to care about. Peter Thiel as an example as a gay man who doesn't care of that gay rights may be taken away.

So here's what I, part of what I mentioned about my evolving view of like what it's like to be a billionaire was actually listening to that episode. And obviously Joe Rogan is worth like hundreds of millions of dollars. so worth like multiples of billions and when you hear them like talking you like oh their brains are not right on the same wave like yeah like there's orders to this thing and like they are not even close and i'll be honest i'm just going to admit to the entire audience here i'm not close to being a hundred millionaire so i can't even think in a hundred millionaire terms much less than multiple billionaire terms so like no anyways that was kind of like a little bit of a little bit of Have you, did you watch Succession? No, I never got into that.

It's super good, but there's a part where that my husband was talking about recently where like they're talking, they're like having $5 million is like the stupidest amount of money to have because you can't retire, but you can't like, but you still have more money than like a lot of other people that you know. And they called it, this is terrible, but they called it, it's like being the tallest dwarf. Yeah. They're like, well, it's not enough to like, I don't know, you know. And I have not, I have like $7.

So it's crazy. I have like $17. Yeah. So we're not close to this level. I'm, I'm, you know, absolutely fine and doing great,

but not a millionaire. No, no. Yeah. It's, it's just, it, it,

it was, it was so, oh man, okay, I'll get into that later. Like, remind me if you care to go back to, like,

my feedback on the Joe Roken and interviewing Peter Thiel episode because there was a lot of things I pulled out of that. It was like, okay, okay, that's a talking point right there. Anyways, we can come back to if we want to. So what I want to get into is kind of like what this group of individuals, what the option of it was and why they contributed in a way that nobody else contributed to technology and society and all that stuff. So let's go ahead and dive into it.

So again, the ending of the last story was PayPal being sold to eBay. Again, the PayPal was sold for about $1.5 billion, which, yes, it is a ton of money, but in total, the members of the PayPal Mafia walked away with somewhere around $350 million in total, and that ranges from Elon Musk, who took the vast majority of that. He received about $165 million, and the rest kind of shared what was left over. Not putting down that, like, that's a ton of money, but currently the first, the first. five richest members of the PayPal Mafia have a combined net worth of $270 billion. Yeah. I mean, I feel like at that time, I feel like the word billion dollars didn't enter are like mainstreamed until the past like, I don't know, five or ten years.

I mean, so Bill Gates held the mantle forever. Then we all knew who Bill Gates was. Then, you know, Warren Buffett. And then all of a sudden, like I think America had like a glut of billioners that happened in the past. 20 years that was just like kind of unprecedented in terms of how many that was. So today, again, the top five richest

members that are combined wealth was about $270 billion. Again, $250 billion of that is really to see Elon Musk. So let's drop him from the equation because he sways it so dramatically. It means that the remaining members

made about $185 million from the original sale, but still have a net worth of about $20 billion. That means, that if you would exclude musk this group 108x their money if you include musk it means that they 771 x their money over a 20 year period of time wow so that's a big deal because by comparison the u.s gross domestic product the size of the u.s economy as a whole grew 2.27x in 20 years over the preceding 20 years so that gives you a scale of the magnitude of what these guys did. So how do they end up doing it? And part of this is going to be a little bit

speculation, which I'm going to rely on you to help me with, Taylor. The other part is going to be quantifiable. So I'm going to start with the quantifiable bit for a minute. So very standard finance stuff. Money tends to grow money. So for example, if you put $1 million on a high yield savings account, you can safely assume that you'll earn about $40,000 or $50,000 a year just on interest without touching the $1 million, or if you want to be riskier, you can put that money in an index fund, and you'll make about $70,000 to $100,000 off your $1 million, give or take. If you want to be even riskier, you put that money in a venture capital fund with a VC firm who will combine similar investments and then dish them out to tech companies to fuel growth

in the hopes of either hitting profitability, acquisition, or an IPO. If you're not super rich with like a ton of liquid capital, going to VC's, route sounds like a total white knuckle experience. You have to put this money in a pool knowing with certainty the vast majority of businesses that that fund is funding are going to go nowhere. But maybe

one of them is going to hit big. Maybe. So they call this the Babe Ruth effect. It is the tradeoff between frequency versus magnitude and it's named such because Babe Ruth was known to swing for the fences and most of the time

he wouldn't hit the ball. When he did make contact. He was just knocked it totally out of the park. Right. He only hit home runs, but he didn't always hit. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Some examples of this are when Facebook, for example, bought WhatsApp, which was a Sequoia Capital Investment Bank backed company. Sequoia invested $60 million in WhatsApp. When Facebook bought it, they valued it $22 billion, which means that Sequoia's interest in the business earned them $3 billion or $50X their investment.

which is pretty good that's like where you're shooting for if you're VC firm so that was that was the biggest investment payoff in VC history but when but then you look at the members of the PayPal Mafia and what they have done

and you start to see how they are able to consistently outperform everybody else over and over and over again so we'll start with the biggest example which is Facebook so again Peter Thiel considered kind of the dawn of the PayPal Mafia

founder of Confinity and the second CEO of PayPal after Elon Musk was unceremoniously booted from the role. He was the very first outside investor in Facebook. So outside of what like the individual founders put in, he's the first investment capital that came into the business. This is insane to me. He spent $500,000 of his own money in 2004 for 10% ownership in the business.

Wow. 10%. I think Facebook is probably worth a trillion dollars right now. Oh my God. Yeah. So Facebook launched in February of 2004, around, summer of that same year, Teal became that first non-founder investor in the business and also introduced Mark Zuckerberg to more capital opportunities through his network

by introducing him to another PayPal millionaire, Reed Hoffman, who was C-O-O of PayPal at the time it was sold to eBay. In total, off about $500,000 for Teal, he made $1 billion off that initial investment. Hoffman invested $27 million and he made about $300 million, so he invested a little bit later. But then again, Hoffman wasn't just a passive investor. He had founded a company called LinkedIn in 2002 right after exiting PayPal. His initial investors were once again Peter Thiel and then David Sachs, who was PayPal's head of product and a guy named Jeremy Stoppelman, who was PayPal's VP of Engineering. Wow. Those were the initial investors. They would have fueled the growth. LinkedIn would be sold to Microsoft in 2016 for $26 billion. Yes. So that made Hoffman

a built multi multi-billionaire uh who's this david saxi i just mentioned he went on to found yammer which teel and hoffin also funded and was also acquired by facebook for one point two or microsoft by for one point two billion dollars which again provided another couple hundred million dollars off their investment it's just thing it's just hit after hit it's like

it's like it's like jackson five like well what were they what were there other things in the middle of that like you were saying that like didn't hit well so these guys invested in a lot of companies the companies that they invested in themselves together with they themselves were the founders and the creators of it no they hit they all hit the only one that had like a little bit of trouble is actually the next company which was yelp so david sacks was a lead investor in yelp yelp had a whole host of issues with monetization scaling all whatever it was a whole whole separate nightmare but like we all know what yelp is

now it's never going to go anywhere and like we can think in large part david sacks for funding that growth and making Yelp an actual viable business as of today. Then we have YouTube, which was founded by three PayPal alum, who they weren't originally part of the mafia because they weren't founders. They were just early engineers. But now they're kind of considered a part of that collective. And they received a ton of support from the PayPal Mafia, the original founders themselves, enough to raise 11.5 million of mentor capital,

all for a $1.6 billion exit sale to Google, which now we have YouTube, the most ubiquitous video sharing platform in the entire world. Wow. And we have a YouTube channel. You can search a Doom DeVille podcast on YouTube. And we also publish very fun vintage videos of a random family.

Yep. All of our episodes are there as well. So then we get to the 800-pound gorilla in the room, Elon Musk. So how is he kind of interwoven and interconnected and all this? And a lot of this, like, I think I kind of knew, but I re-learned the vast majority of it researching this. So the story really begins with SpaceX, because when he left, when he was basically fired from being the CEO of PayPal, he founded SpaceX. So it was noted that he found SpaceX to decrease the cost of space travel. I don't totally get why he cared about this mission or this causes a mission. I read some vague statement that he really wanted to help build greenhouses.

to support terror forming in Mars or something? Like, I have no idea why this was... I didn't find enough topic on this. Like, why this was something he cared so deeply about, but... He just really liked the movie Biodome. I mean, who doesn't? Polly Shores, like, it was the best Pauly Shored vehicle that we had. Do you remember how cool those were in that time?

Yeah, no, yeah. Maybe he just didn't really like those. Um, Sun-in-law was pretty good, too. I love that. Yeah, yeah. I think about the latest same much as son-in-law, like, once a week. it's like just lettuce. I'm like a piece of bread

and I just like love it and I wish it would make it for me. I'll call one and see if you can hook you up. So between 2006 and 2008 SpaceX had dumped its considerable investment resources into perfecting the Falcon project rockets

and on three occasions those launches failed meaning the rocket just kind of exploded. I'm going to go out on a limb here well not on a limb. I'm just going to go ahead and admit that I don't know a lot about rocket science. but it sounds like it's really tough to nail this stuff both in like science resources and money

is that fair that's fair i wonder why i guess do you know why like is he like the government's not doing it best enough i don't know it was something about how he thinks right yeah it was something about how he thinks that it could be done more efficiently and effectively and in and cost effectively and all that stuff like that's kind of what what I sense but also there's an element of this again like what I was telling you really like there's something that these guys are plugged into that's like different than our understanding of it like I don't think that a guy like this just doesn't have a contact at NASA that he calls so you can tell him like here's where this be worth here's how much of cost here where we get I'm sure there's like some they're plugged

into things that are different and give them a lot more visibility and insight into like the landscape than I think you can glean from just like researching the way we We research. Right. Totally. So, apparently, so the company was on the verge of bankruptcy after these three failed attempts. Their last attempt was only possible because, again, Geter Thiel came to the rescue with an investment in the business. They kept it afloat long enough to perform their fourth successful launch, which resulted in a federal contract that would save the business.

And now possibly the lives of two astronauts who are stranded in space thanks to voting. They're still there. They're still there. still there. And it sounds that they're not coming back until February. I mean, like, maybe they're happy. I mean, they're probably making the best of it, you know, but it's still. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't notice, but they actually been this. They're like real astronauts. They've been to the space station many times. So like they're like their normal thing. So yeah. Anyway, maybe maybe they wanted to stay longer and they,

they like, it does something weird. So by this point, when we get to the launch, the Falcon 4, which was the first successful launch they did. Right when they got their contract from the government, it was documented that the business SpaceX had about one week's worth of operating cash. Wow. So one thing I read was that when he got the call saying that he got the government contract, Elon Musk told the guy who called him, I love you. So it was in a really tough find.

And this is a part where like stories kind of converge. And I don't actually understand how anybody could go through this. But we turn our attention to Tesla, which, again, contrary to popular belief, must did it not found Tesla. Tesla was founded by two guys, one named Martin Eberhard and a guy named Mark Tarpenning, who found the business in 2003, must joined it in 2004 as a single largest shareholder with $6 million in investment, which resulted in him after a little bit of like board move arounds and whatever. just corporate BS, him being installed as a CEO. So the business spent the next few years working on its battery tech, optimizing supply chains. All of this in anticipation of launching the Tesla Roadster in 2008.

Despite their best efforts, they had real difficulty bringing the flagship vehicle to market and experienced significant delays and cost overruns on the project. So in 2008, Musk roughly $180 million fortune was big, basically down to zero. He had personally put his last $70 million in the Tesla that year and $100 million total in Space X before the successful launch of Falcon 4. This is all in 2008. What was the other thing that was going on in 2008 in the U.S.? Recession? The Great Recession. GM and Chrysler both fought bankruptcy. So nobody was trying to buy some random car with a new

technology battery take that nobody even understood what it was. It was a horrible, horrible moment to be doing this. What ultimately saved Tesla was that Chrysler was trying to invest in electric battery technology. They're trying to invest in electric car battery technology and they infused Tesla with a $40 million capital grant swap for equity. And that's basically what saved the business long enough for them to get the road start of market, which was like on the down swing of the great recession. And when they were able to kind of sustain themselves long enough to kind of burst out with the model S and so on and so forth.

So what I didn't bring up was that he also put his last $10 million in Solar City to try and make solar energy accessible for like households and stuff. So what I read is that at this point, he literally had no money. It is said that he was

borrowing money from his family and friends to just pay his living expenses and buy food. So as of today, that $180 million in proceeds that, you know, he made off the sale of PayPal. They're responsible based across the market caps of Tesla, SpaceX, and Solar City, which is now part of Tesla, about $1 trillion in market cap and about $250,000 in employment

across the employee network for those organizations. So, again, all the kind of flowing from this one, I mean, it's interesting because Peter Thiel is not even close to the richest person, and he's like the one central cog that made all of this, like, possible. So I was kind of going into speculation on like what makes this group so unique, how they keep supporting each other, reinvesting in each other, and why their businesses that they personally found keep, find, keep hitting one off the other. And it really tailored took me back to when we were early employees of our last company. So at that time, that company was backed by some of those powerful people in Silicon Valley. And we experienced like a ton of growth in those early years.

I think you and I joined when the business was somewhere around 300 customers and we I mean by the time I left we were in the tens of thousands so yeah so like we were in like a hyper growth phase but we're also like super close to each other right like we worked weekends we spent free time together we stayed late at the office we had ping pong tournaments like we did a lot of stuff together and I think like that's kind of what again like the people that I talk to now that have helped me throughout my career since then it's just the same people it's it's like I said with the person I just told you about like anybody who wants a favor for me like they can call me and get it and vice versa and I think that that's kind of what this kind of

how this evolved into what evolved into obviously different scales if if nobody's going to call me and ask me for a hundred million dollars like don't call me and ask me for like introduction or a favor or something like that's just different but um that's my theory that makes sense I mean if you can like help the people who helped you and like help each other and you have the means to do it yeah yeah so so anyways that's my story my wow mine is like super short today but like that's kind of the story i left off a lot of there's so many different examples of this and i didn't think it was i could have done like 20 more of these but i thought like the biggest things i kind of wanted to throw out there um and yeah that's kind of where i'm going to leave it

okay cool um yeah i mean i think that like similar to the money compounds, so do the connections. You know? So true. Yeah, it's good point. You can be like, oh, yeah, I know this person. Like, if I'm just like a person who has an idea, like, for a podcast and I don't know anyone famous in the podcasting world, it's going to be hard to get it up and popular. You know what's interesting about the Facebook example? What happened was that Sean Parker, who was president of Facebook, he knew through the great buying Reid Hoffman. Reid Hoffman, before he joined PayPal as a C-O,

had started a company called SocialNet, which is what he flipped into LinkedIn later on. But when Sean Parker came to him, he was like, listen, I'm trying to get this other thing off the ground, and it's kind of in the same vein of what you're trying to do. I think there'll be a weird conflict of interest if I was your lead investor. He was investor later on.

He invested $27 million later on. But before that, he was like, I don't want to seem like I'm being shady. So talk to my buddy, Peter Thiel. How did he know those people? I mean, I would assume he created Napster. Like, don't you just kind of know everyone when you... Oh, right. I forgot about that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that's the story for this round. The next one's going to go into more of like the social side of the PayPal Mafia, the controversies and kind of things that came out of it since then. But I have been finding it really, really interesting, like just learning more about this. There's a book that just came out, which I had called On the Edge by Named.

silver. You bought a book? Yeah, it's a real one. Look, it's real. Oh, my God. I can't believe this. Words in that. Can you see the words? I was so proud of you. And... Do you have a bookshelf? We're going to put it on a bookshelf?

I was going to put it like right here. But, but one thing he does is he actually interviews Peter Thiel. And he discusses it again on the Ezra Klein show about his experience. Because he didn't talk about this in the book, but he talks about this when he's talking to Ezra Klein where he's like, he also was just like, man. And talking to these people, I'm trying to understand how they see humanity, how they see themselves in humanity, how they look at timelines, their contributions. And it's like, it's not like necessarily a God thing of like I'm chosen. It's more of like I have the ability and therefore the responsibility to do X, Y, and Z.

And like rightly or wrongly, right? Like, it's not that you're going to agree with everything that these guys do. Obviously, you don't agree with a lot of it. But, like, it's just different prerogative. It just operates on a very different prerogative and operates on, like, a humanitarian timeline and a humanitarian perspective as opposed to, like, that's why I found that interview with Joe Rogan so funny because obviously, like, goes into, like, this side quest of, like, drugs and psilocybin and, like, whatever. And, like, you can, you can almost, like, hear Peter's told him, like, what? like what do you like he's like I'm trying to like clone my brain

I'm trying to clone my brain and then still install it into like a 17 year old version of my body like what do you talk gives a shit about like your again it's just such a different scale of like what these folks think about which is so interesting yeah but we'll get there Taylor we won't we probably won't but like whatever we'll be happy well I also I feel like then it's something that they're that they are

saying that is interesting that that like time matters in a different way and I also think time matters in a different way you don't have to worry about like regular people shit like keeping your house clean yeah like if you were worth

that many billions of dollars like yeah you're I would assume that the thing you would be focused on first and foremost is how to increase your longevity yeah and investing in technology I didn't tell you this like there was

one time I went to um actually this guy might have been part of the payoff yeah I can't remember exactly I saw his name pop up somewhere but anyways he was he was one of these billionaire guys and um I was he was I was gonna go have a lunch with him and so I had this lunch with him and we were talking about like the business and what we do and everything and how we framed it for me was like dude I'm investing in businesses that can get contracts with DARPA like I'm not interested in consumer BS like things that you're selling is like it's cute it's cool it's fun. It's cute. Keep doing your cute thing. I'm

trying to like create like magnetic waves of energy that could go to space. Like rocket science shit that you don't understand. Yeah. I was like I'll just have my salad and leave. What am I doing here? What am I doing here? But I'll always say like it's not that anybody's better or worse than anybody else. It's just

like that's not with the lesson here. It's more of like just like I'm trying to get like an understanding of like of like who these people are. Why they are the way they are. like there's got to be lessons within that really there's got to be something there's going to be something cool about like being able to think that long till i can't think that long till i'm like i'm literally thinking about like what should i get for a dinner like you know like i i can't break outside of my own paradigm it'll be nice to i think it also speaks to like a historical thing of like a king having a war and not caring about the immediate consequences

you know yeah and being like the consequences are that my thing will be here for generations, you know, like that's the thing that I care about. If in the meantime, I destroy lives and things and blah, blah, blah, like, that doesn't really matter to me. And I don't even give it a, give it a thought, you know? Maybe, maybe that. One thing he said on the podcast I was just listening to was he just like, he was dissecting why humans are the way they are.

And I was just like, I'm like, that's a really fascinating way to look at it. He was like, yeah, we're just copycats. Like, our brains were literally designed to just copy other people. Like, that's all we do is we just, we just mimic what's around it. So that's what we call it aping. We're going to ape someone is like, we're just going to, like, do what they do. Like, if a kid wants, if a kid has a blue ball, the other kid's going to want a blue ball. Like, it's just how we operate.

And if you have a lot of money, I want a lot of money. Like, it's, it was a very interesting way to perceive it. But anyways, though, that was also like a funny podcast. I wouldn't listen to it because I take the subject matter that, Seriously, because again, Joe Rogan's going into like a weird, like, he's like talking about doing mushrooms and stuff. He's like, dude, what are you talking about? Yeah. This is so interesting.

All of the, that plus all the steroids, I can't be good for him. Also, he would like, there was, there was something that I found really fun about that, though, was that he would just like, he came up with theories about Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Gates. like Peter Thiel did and it totally brought back the fact that that PayPal Mafia guys seemed to really dislike the Microsoft guys so apparently Bill Gates shorted Tesla

like a ton which like caused like the stock to crash or the really critical point Elon Musk called them out on it and it was a huge media firestorm for a while and then Peter Thiel's on this podcast talking about how close Gates was to Epstein

I was like I was like oh dude you should like try you're sort of like a billionaire fight here it's like a yeah totally it's really fun to do that but anyways so that's my episode that's all I got for now and then next week we're going to join you with controversies

of the group so TVD cool what do you have to say Taylor no it's interesting I like it I it is like it's hard to see some of the stuff that like these guys do and be like what are you even what are you

doing but like you're right that they just are totally different like they just have a totally different mindset yeah i can't i can't even imagine having that like as a you know as like an option like what would you do that be nice yeah or terrible i don't know right i don't know i mean i definitely think i definitely think that money can buy happiness so but i do think at some point it might make it crazy i don't know i mean buying like yeah the longevity thing would make me pretty happy i think knowing that like i could have the resources to just like not be subject to time that'd be kind of cool i'd really just like to not have to worry about dinner i'd like someone else to make dinner every fucking day and like make my bed like I think there's so much I could do if I don't have to like think

about food your point I'm literally thinking about dinner right now right like if you could just go outside and dinner was like made for you and you'd be like thank you so nice I went to this like three day women's retreat in January and the food was made for us and it was just incredible they're like okay dinner's at sex and you get there and dinner's there you're like thank you so much you don't ask me what I wanted I don't give a shit to make me something you know what I mean So nice. So nice. One day, Taylor.

Sweet. Well, anything you want to read off? I have one fun thing. My friend Seamus from New York, he sent me a message because he said something on Instagram about Jesse Owens, a couple, a little bit more Olympic stuff. But his great-grandfather, I think, was actually one of the track coaches in the 1936 Olympics. And there was something that happened where they wanted Jesse Owens, like either in the trial or in the metal. race to do like one race after the other

which would have been really hard because it was like he just did one thing to immediately do another one so his grandfather found a thing in the rules where you could consult with your coach for any amount of time

so he wasn't like the head coach and he was like one of the coaches so he talked to Jesse Owens for like a half hour about nothing and he got to like rest and then do his next thing. That's pretty cool. Yeah.

Yeah. You have cool friends. I do. Well thank you for writing. in Seamus and that's a really cool name too. It is. It's cool. It's like hard to say if you look at it spelled, but then I'm just saying it's cool. Yeah, yeah. It's Seamus. Yeah. Like Seamus and like Shamedaid are like really hard to like figure out. But like once you figure it out, you're like, oh, it's such a lovely

name. Sydney had. Um, anyways, yeah, please write to us to Dumafod and gmail.com on the socials at Duneafil. Please follow us for not following us. Taylor will be really happy or she will cost you. We don't know which. you i will figure out how to make a pivot table on the spreadsheet that i'm making and i will find out if you are my friend and i'm following me coming for you um cool anything else taylor that's it no thank you so much for us thank you we're going to cut off by all