Doomed to Fail - Ep 134 - Bad Presidents: #29 - Warren G. Harding & The Teapot Dome Scandal

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

Let's talk about more bad US presidents! This week, we talked about our 29th, Warren G. Harding. A Republican who was subtly pushed into running by the Oil industry. The goal is to send Albert Fall to the Secretary of the Interior job & sell some US Navel Reserve Oil to the only bidders.Fall got super suspiciously rich. Harding probably would have been in trouble for turning a blind eye but he died before the trial, leaving "Keep Calm with Coolidge" to clean things up. Sources:The Teapot Dome Scandal: How Big Oil Bought the Harding White House and Tried to Steal the Country - https://www.amazon.com/Teapot-Dome-Scandal-Harding-Country/dp/0812973372 https://coolidgefoundation.org/presidency/coolidge-chronology-15/https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/silent-cal-coolidgehttps://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/senate-stories/one-hundred-years-since-teapot-dome.htmhttps://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties/teapot-dome-scandal Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

It's a matter of the people of the state of California versus Orenthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Taylor, we're back. We're back. Oh, my gosh. You know what I did? I'm just looking at my emails.

I joined the Learned League. Learned League. Do you know what that is? No. Obviously. It's like a thing to get into, I guess it's learned league. it's, oh, I'm like the stupidest person here. So it's a, like, a really hard trivia group that you have to get invited into and you

like do these like trivia battles against other people and you have to like give points to things and like everything. And I was like, oh, I've always wanted to be in this. And then this dude at work was like, I have an invitation. Anybody want it? And I was like, yes, I'm going to kill it. I am so phenomenally bad at this. It is unfucking unbelievable.

I'm like number 24 of 25 in my group for the past, I'll be doing it for a week. I'm just so bad at it. it's really wilds for trivia yeah it's like so hard as you know a lot of pop culture and that's what most trivia is it is i know i know a lot of trivia i have i have out of my resume then really good at trivia and i think i'm really good at it and this is this is humbling to say the least is it like fantasy sports but for nerds kind of learned league okay maybe learned league i think it might be saying wrong well i think it's the same spelling it is and so now i just feel dumb no I think it's I say learned okay great so we're both done um do you want to introduce us yes hello welcome to doom to fail we're the podcast that tells you history is most notorious disasters and epic failures two times a week it is our second show of the week and i am taylor joined by farce i'm fars i'm here I'm happy great okay last night I had this idea and I laughed so hard for like 15 minutes at myself

I want to bet that you can't guess who I'm going to talk about. And I was like, I'm willing to bet like a thousand dollars that far as we'll not guess this. Like I will venue, I'm going to be a thousand dollars right now. But then I'm like, yeah, I'm not a risk taker. So I'm going to bet you $100. Okay. If you get this right, I will give you, I'll venue you $100. Let's, okay.

What's the, do I get clues? Yeah, yeah. Who was our 29th president? McKinley. No. I'll then remember you $5 if you can tell me who was the president after Wilson. Cleveland? Cleveland is not a word. No, Grover, Cleveland.

What did you think I said? You say Cleveland? I said Grover Cleveland. Okay, no. So I could have bet a million dollars that you wouldn't get that. I wouldn't have gotten it either. It was hard, but I was laughing at like trying to to make you bet. And then I was laughing at how scared I was to have to possibly give you $1,000 if you got that right. I think you took a short position against my intellect and you won. I was like, uh-oh. Um, so 29th president of the United States was Warren G. Harding.

Um, so this is my bad president series that's casual. So it happens whenever I feel like it. So we're going to talk about Warren G. Harding and the teapot dome scandal. Have you heard of I absolutely have. Have you really? Yeah. Tebow like that was like a, that was, I mean, I think every kid learns at in school. I don't think I learned it in school. But maybe since Illinois is less of an oil place in Texas.

Do you have like an oil history class? Yeah, yeah, we have armored the low class. We have oil history. We have tin can hat class. Oh, that's cool. Like you're like kind of open it halfway and then wear that. Yeah, you're just wearing a can of beans on your head. Yeah, I love that.

Okay, cool, cool, cool. I'm glad. I'm excited. So I'm going to tell you about Warren G Harding. The G stands for Godfrey. Gambleeliel. I don't know. Gambleleel. I looked at what the hell was that.

Old-timey names were so stupid. It's a, I was like, is it like a maiden name of a thing? But Gamalil is a saint and a doctor in the Bible. I don't know, whatever. That's the G stands for. Okay. He was born November 2nd, 1865 in Ohio. He has, like, the general presidential job life where he goes to school and, like,

study law and, like, does and stuff. Eventually, he buys a newspaper in the town of Marion, Ohio, called the Marion Star. We'll talk about that later. So, like, keep that in mind. He was then, he went into politics. He was in the Ohio Senate. He was Lieutenant Governor of Ohio. and he became the Republican candidate for president in 1920.

So this is the time when like the candidate wouldn't go to the convention. And guess where the convention was? Chicago. Good job. So he was nominated on the temp ballot in that. So similarly to like, I always mentioned Lincoln. I'm sure there's many others who it's like not your first choice, but like maybe your second or third. And then it gets down to like that person.

the incidentally he ran against james cox who was a democrat who had fDR as his vice president and james cox was nominated on the 44th ballot at the dnc can you imagine if we had like a competitive that'd be so fun though i think it'd be so fun yeah i hope so next time it's like that or something or whenever it'd just like it'd be fun okay we could pick up like smoking cigarettes and it'll be totally justified. We'd just smoke like a week straight. Wouldn't it be fun? That sounds like the most fun thing ever is to go there and smoke cigarettes and just hang out with you and just make fun of people.

We have a great time. I would love it. James Cox is going to lose to Harding by, he loses the popular vote by 26.17%, which is like huge. Yeah. And it was the worst since 1820. So, yeah. Um, but while, um, Harding was running for president, he ran a front porch campaign, which is very smart. He didn't leave his house. He just sat on the front porch and journalists came to him and he told them like what he wanted to do. Um, his big campaign was a returned normalcy because it'd been a pretty crazy couple decades. So you start with Teddy Roosevelt, then Taft, then Wilson. World War I just ended. They're just about, you, this is like the same time as, um, the, um, the, uh, the, molasses flood so they're just about to pass prohibition women are about to vote for the first time so like things are kind of riled up harding um his wife um he married a woman who was four years older than him her name was Florence and um she is the first woman who got to vote for her husband for president which is cool no way that's so cool right because like the it finally were able to vote and then she was the first person to the election to do so that was cool um he called

He called her the duchess. She controlled a lot of his stuff. And she had been, she was divorced and had a child when she married, when she married him. Harding was not black, which needs to be said, because people would, like, accuse him of being black. And it was, like, a rumor that he had been. And some people were, like, he's our first black president because he had, like, a little bit of, like, African American, whatever. He did not. That's not true.

It was, like, to discredit him. Look black, did he? No. And later they did DNA on his, like, descendants, and he was not. But he looks, he looks like the president of like a golf club resort. That's great. I wanted to hear what you thought about what he looks like. Because the book I read, oh, I didn't say this, I read a book, I'm a Cheapad Dome scandal, and some articles that I'll share with you.

But people were like, he looks like we think George Washington might have looked like. you can kind of see it you know he has like a strong nose i mean they were like he looks presidential because he looks presidential yeah yeah so that was obviously like helpful as well you know um so he wasn't black but for the time he was like very like presidential looking and people really like that people like that as well of course makes sense um he was also romney of his time he does kind of is a mitt romney vibe Except he won president Right

Wow Got him The unexpected Dig it for a reason It was out of nowhere So Harding had a lot of affairs Like a lot even for presidential standards

And for example He wanted to get to D.C. Before his wife did during inauguration time Because his mistress Nan Britton was there with their baby. He'd already had a baby with his mistress. He had like several of them. And that baby, Elizabeth and Britton later via DNA, they would prove that she was his son, his daughter, even though he had obviously, like, he knew that she was his daughter.

That is one thing I will say about like the olden days that has us be, it was so much easier to have like affairs and second families. Because like, nobody's going to take photos and post them. Nobody even has a camera. It's all word of mouth. I mean, I think everybody knew. but like but um it's definitely definitely florence knew and she was like you know not happy about it obviously but like still you know supported him and his candidacy and all of that but um no i think everybody knew um he was also like a big drinker and love to play poker and he like in a bad way like he'd be at parties and he'd be like too drunk and people would be like we have to get the president out of here

you know i've been there um which is yeah but like Yeah, exactly. Like, we're not the President of the United States. You shouldn't do that. This is also similarly a couple, there's some characters that we've talked about before that come in and out of this story. And he,

the lawyer for Faddy Arbuckle that you talked about a long time ago will be in this story eventually. I don't write down, but they're involved somehow. But just like Faddy Arbuckle, Harding was at a party where a young woman died. I think this is him like threw a bottle and it hit her in the head. And he had to be like whisked away by Secret Service

because he was like, should not have been there because also it's prohibition so like obviously everybody in the government is still drinking but like you know think so so harding becomes president he the campaign is like you know return to normalcy we just had a war it was crazy let's like you know continue to like you know stability conservative values is republican all those things um the economy did have a little bit of a boom, obviously, because this is the 1920s. So this is like the beginning of the 20s, post-war stuff. Everyone

is... The golden era, right? You do it pretty well. Yeah. He also has some diplomatic success, getting some like naval arms race treaties signed after the war as well. And he signed a... Just like some highlights of his,

of his presidency. He signed a bill to set a quota on immigration, which is like one of the first like a big beginning of like a more restrictive U.S. immigration policy after the war happened under Harding. But all of that is going to be overshadowed by the Teapot Dome scandal. So Teapot Dome is a place in Wyoming. Wyoming. You should have bet on that one. A place in Wyoming where there is oil and it was part of the U.S. Naval Reserves for oil.

You know, you know, everyone knows that Teddy Roosevelt loved the national parks. So he was like the president who like started a bunch of natural parks, got to talk about it. He liked them in like a rich white guy away where he wanted to like go hunting and document every bird he found and stuff them himself. You know, very TR. And Taft, who came after him, set aside land for conservation, but also for naval oil reserves. So just like an area in the United States that was. we know has oil that is there in case the U.S. needs it in case of emergency, right? Yeah. It's like the reserves we have. I mean, we still do this.

Yes, I looked it up. I'll tell you about what we do now. Yeah. It's also right after standard oil gets cut up into pieces that happened in 1911. So people are like finding more oil out west and there's not that like huge monopoly that there was with standard oil. It's kind of like there's more people, more oil men in the oil business. Make sense? Yeah. so this was the biggest scandal until watergate that a president had ever done and essentially going to be there were so many payoffs to the secretary of the interior for people to drill for oil on teapot dome and some other naval reserves um so some of the oil men who are in this story so they're just like people who are like a lot of them are like kind of self-starter guys who like went out west and found oil you know um and a lot of them um became part of a group called the Ohio gang, which operated out of the little house on K Street in D.C., a little greenhouse on K Street in D.C.

where they would meet and discuss who they were going to bribe and things like that. So I'll tell you about all of them. But first, the person who was responsible really for getting Harding on the ballot was Jacob Hammond. He was an oil man, very involved in the Republican Party. And he was one who went around trying to get people to vote for Harding, because he knew that he would be able to, like, get past Harding to be able to drill on this land that he knew had oil. And he got in with the Harding family, and he was, like, going to get a position in D.C., but Jacob Hammond lived with a woman named Clara Smith Hammond. They had the same last name because he had Clara marry his nephew so that they would have the same last name.

They wouldn't have problems traveling because he was already married. I kind of love this guy. How was the worst president? No, no, no. That wasn't Harding. That was Hammond, the person who got Harding elected. So Hammond, Hamon met Clara when she was 16 and he was 40 and convinced her to, like, change her life and, like, go with him. So he had this woman he was always with, but he was married.

And his wife was Florence Harding's second cousin. So his real wife was the second cousin to Lawrence Harding, who was the wife of the candidate for president, right? And Flo is like, absolutely fucking not. You cannot come to D.C. and be a part of this cabinet with your mistress. You have to go back to your family. You know? So Hammond is like, okay, so he's in a hotel with Clara and he tells her that they need to break up and she shoots him and he dies four days later. so he was like basically the instigator for getting harding president but he didn't even make it to like the presidential stuff later clara will be found not guilty and she just kind of got off and lived for life

so later um there's more kind of corruption in the rnc where a man named um oh a man obviously haze of the Hayes Code. You know this person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was actually the chairman of the RNC when they were during this election. And then he became Postmaster General of the United States, but he didn't really want it that job. And I assume it's just approving mailbox to science. Does your mailbox say improved by the Postmaster General? He left so hard. I'm like, I can imagine him in his office being like, yes, this mailbox is good. So he quit that job and then moved to Hollywood and then established the Hays Code, et cetera, and all of that stuff. This was incredible.

Yeah. So he's going to come back and testify during the trial for TIPA Dome to say that he got Liberty Bonds, which are like, you know, money held in Liberty Bond, which is a, as a bribe to pay off some of the RNC's debts to help get Harding elected. So that was all part of it too. And it's all kind of because Harding is kind of a pushover and people just like know that he will be. So his, these group of guys who are these oil guys who are hanging out as part of the Ohio gang that I mentioned, there are a bunch of them that are going to be, I'm going to highlight more than others, but there's Joseph Foraker, Warren Harding, obviously, Harry M. Daugherty, Jesse Smith, George Ramos. And then there's Albert Fall. Albert Fall is the biggest person. in this. He's going to be the person that is going to be ultimately convicted of this, of

being the part of the scandal. He got the biggest bribes. He is not the reason we have the term fall guy, but it really could be. In the book, they said that he is the reason we have the term fall guy. But that's totally what I thought when you, when you first said his name, I was like, okay, he's going to be the fall guy. I thought that too. But then Wikipedia says it was used at least 20 years before in like a play, but I think it didn't hurt that his name was fall. He's the person who did the leasing. He was secretary of the interior,

but he didn't want to like help the interior in a conservation way. He was like, we, he's like, I don't care about how people are going to get energy in the future. Maybe they'll use the sun. I don't know. Right now we need oil, you know. So he was like trying to get the oil out. There's Edwin Denby,

who would be secretary of the Navy, Henry Ford, Sinclair. He's the head of mammoth oil. And so he's one of, he's one of the people who got the lease for Teapot Dome. And in the end, Sinclair is going to spend about six months in jail. Another one is Edward Doheny. He is an oil tycoon who leased the Elk Hills Oil Reserve,

just like another oil reserve that was near Teapot Dome. He also just thought it was fun. He's the guy who, quote, discovered the Labrea Tarpitz in L.A. Doheny is like one of the most famous streets. The, that Gray's Banner, like that's the that's the that's still he needs estate in beverly hills yeah exactly so he was a bit there i don't think so oh it's incredible it's so it's so it's like hearse castle level

i love doing that awesome um cool also charles forbs and thomas miller so those that's the ohio gang so here's what happened in 1922 fall leased teapot dome to henry sinclair of mammoth oil and um it's called teapot dome because there's a giant rock formation. It doesn't look like a teapot. It's just like rocks, but whatever, using your imagination. And that's where the oil was. They were the Navy oil reserves. And then this is where I looked up. We do have an oil reserve at four sites on the Gulf of Mexico with a capacity of 727 million barrels of crude oil today. So they're able to withdraw from those sites, 4.4 million barrels a day today if they needed it. From Teabodum? No, no, no, just from the four other, this is like today. There's the four reserves that are around the Gulf of Mexico, and that's how much is in it. Yeah. So that's not in Teapad Dome.

Tad Dome, I think they pretty much. Captain. Yeah. So Fall had gone very suspiciously from a man in debt to a man with a lot of money. Like, like, what I'm rich, like, maybe you won't know, but there will be science. You know, like he had a big debt on his farm. He paid that off right away. And it turns out that Doheny had.

given him about $100K, which is about $1.7 million today. And he got gifts in the form of liberty bonds from Sinclair for another $300,000. So about like $7 million he got to, well, so he had the authority to lease these lands. But he had to like take them away from the Navy and then have competitive bidding to have people lease them. He did none of that. He just had them sign the lease and he put it in his desk drawer and trying to tell anybody so that's the laziest way to do something you can't take bribes you can right but you shouldn't um so um during this time also president harding came into a lot of money

he um had his newspaper the marian uh newspaper that we talked about um sold for like 200 000 and it was like not at all worth that so that's like kind of a very suspicious thing that might have happened um he also was planning to go on a world tour after his presidency on like a huge yacht for an entire year all expenses paid by rich people so like that's suspicious this this all reminds me of that scene in good fellows when they did the lufthansa heist and then they're at the bar celebrating it's like christmas time and uh alp the robert de nero's character is like he sees people pulling up with like brand new catalanx and new fur goes like did i tell you didn't i tell you didn't I tell you not to spend a dollar on

anything? Take it back where you got to take it back. It's the exact same story. It's exactly that. You're like, oh, now you're wearing a pink coat and your debts are all paid, so weird. Yeah. But good for you. So one day,

Harding was going to on a trip to Alaska. He was like the first president to go to Alaska and he was on a boat. And he was talking to Herbert Hoover, who was going to be president later. And he said, well, if you knew a great scandal in our administration, would you, for the good of the country and the party expose it publicly or would you bury it? And Herbert Hoover said that he would say publish it, get credit for integrity on your side. And Harding said it might be politically dangerous for me.

Basically, like, I can't do that. Wow. People are going to know that I did some shit. So Harding would have been, we would have known a little bit more about his involvement had he not died. in office. He died at age of 57 on August 2nd, 1923. He had a heart attack. He had a couple days of like feeling shitty. They gave him like caffeine to make him feel better because it was 1923. And eventually he had a heart attack and he died. So Calvin Coolidge is now the president. Cool. Is that the end? No. I'm just telling you. I'm just making sure that you're

caught up. It's not bad. We're close to then. So Calvin Coolidge is the greater president now. He knew less about the scandals um but he was um he didn't want it to like tarnish his presidency as well so he allowed it to go to a senate um a senate committee hearing to um a senator john b kendrick he agreed that i look at that sinclair should not have gotten the um gotten the rights like just like so easily and like by himself without having any um any any you know any competition so they have a hearing and a lot of like like there are a couple of guys who die by suicide there's one guy I think Doheny's son dies like a really weird murder suicide with his friend so a couple like suspicious things happen kind of like during it that happened that happened

at Grey's Manor that's part of the tour that he died there yes exactly exactly so definitely feels like a little a little weird that like um that like that happened during that time um the the senate investigation will go on for several years um and albert fall is going to be convicted of accepting bribes um he's the first former u.s cabinet member to be imprisoned for crimes committed while he was in office um and then um i think henry sinclair is also going to go to jail but he has a good time he gets like go to like a rich person jail and he gets to be a pharmacist so he we get so he gets to drink all the time because the place is full of pharmaceutical booze. So, yeah, so I think that is, is it because Fall was convicted. He went to jail. Harding's

reputation was then tarnished because of it, but we'll never really know exactly how much he knew or like any end of those things because he died and he was unable to tell anybody, but it sounds like, it's pretty suspicious that he had, you know, all these guys around him who were just getting richer and richer off of, off of this stuff. Teapot Dome then stayed idle for about 50 years. In 1976, it went back into production, and in 2015, the U.S. Department of Energy sold it to another oil resources group, but I think it has a lot less stuff in it right now. So why is he the worst president? He's not. I'm not saying he's worth president. I'm not saying I'm doing bad presidents.

So Harding allowed this scandal to have. happened under his nose while his friends bribed and got rich. Didn't Halliburn get a no-bid contract to rebuild Iraq? Probably. I assume this is just how business is done. Well, I mean, it is, it isn't, it isn't. Like, it is, but, like, it shouldn't be. That's, I think that's the point.

Like, as a Secretary of Interior, you should not be taking $6 million from oil people to give them the Naval Oil Reserve. to make $500 million, you know? Yeah. You shouldn't do that. I mean, under that logic, then Dick Cheney should also be in jail. Yes. Oh, okay.

Well, then, yeah, we agree. Dick Cheney should be in, okay, yeah. All right, I see your point. We're on the same page. He's still alive, Taylor. He is like, he doesn't have a pulse, right? He's at like four hearts. Um

I don't even know Well I see like 300 years old I mean he's gonna be up there He is He's 83 God I don't know He feels older

He seemed like he was 83 when he was vice president No totally Um So So what Um so what do we do now with oil reserves I think they're sitting there in case we need them

but like you can probably like regulate them because of an oil crisis but they've never don't really have done that or but I think it's like supposed to be if we need it for like war tomorrow didn't Trump release a ton of oil reserves I don't know

that sounds familiar I think Trump did at some point he was like a COVID thing I forgot what happened but I remember that was like the first I was like oh wow we're actually using it yeah so fun

all right well that's a fun little man dick Cheney just chugging along with his like 15 heart attacks like God keeps trying to bring him home and he just keeps fighting it I don't think it's God is bringing him home yeah I think it was on

I think it was on American American dad because the dad works at the FBI and they like found a cell phone and they were like oh who's calling and they were like

oh it's look at the recent calls and it's like oh they called the devil they called deader oh it's supposed to take Cheney's phone I love that we have like a famous bad daddy yeah

lots of them but there's lots of them but yeah this was a fun one and yeah it's funny that like you know haze is there there's going to be like um you know Calvin Coolidge is going to you know really distance itself from it but then like you know there's a lot of future presidents in the story too you know like FGR was running against him there's he talked to Herbert Hoover so like all these people are just kind of like lifting each other up

even in different ways oh you know what I forgot to say is that um there was an election for Calvin Coolidge during the trial that Coolidge did win. But the Democrat that he was running against, I know that Eleanor Roosevelt really wanted Al Smith to be president during this time, but he was too Catholic for people and he was too New York for like the South. But one of the things that Eleanor Roosevelt would do was drive around when they were campaigning with a big teapot on top of her car. I don't find a photo of this. That's kind of fun. I remind people about it. That's kind of fun. Yeah.

Sweet. I'd like your. president history there's there's such a vast like there's this this middle tier that's like totally forgetable um but it obviously had huge implications so yeah totally like i mean i want to do a truman one because all i know about truman is that he dropped the atomic bomb but i what else have you do did anything besides besides that um that's a really good question i think so but i don't i don't know I'd love to learn. I feel like I'd learn about him a little bit. But, yeah, I'd love to learn more.

I can't find a picture of this teapot car for Eleanor. If anyone has one. That is a mid-journey question. It is. Oh, you're totally right. Oh, my God. I'll probably be very, very close to it. Also, like, Anna Roosevelt-Longworth, who is Annie, is PR's daughter.

She's going to, like, be at all of the, all the teapot dome, like, hearings and stuff she was just there to like be gossipy which is fun this does feel like a really fun time to be alive yeah um sweet well thank you thank you for sharing um and congratulations for keeping your thousand dollars thank you thank you thank you thank you the problem is you know me too well to ever ask me a question it's not like you would ever like take that bet you're not going to give me a thousand dollars i was going to give you a thousand dollars it would have been unfair and it would have been unfair on all accounts I don't even think that's exactly what betting is

that's not what betting is so sweet okay well do you have do you have any anything to read out before we wrap the last just one thing that we had mentioned Irish names because I mentioned my friend Seamus and my friend Morgan said her favorite Irish name is Chavon, and I watched this movie or this show called Bodkin on Netflix. It's not very good.

It's about a podcast and, like, kind of hurt my feelings because it's like, oh, yeah, like, you're, like, you know, podcasts are stupid. I know, I don't know that that's a fine. But, like, it's also not very good. The story's not very good. Like, we watched seven episodes and we were 20 minutes from the end last night and I was like, I'm going to go to bed. I don't care. But it's about a festival in Ireland called the Saoen Festival.

that's spelled Sam Hine. So just another way that. Sam Wyn. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Seamus is better.

Yeah. Yeah. So fine. Well, please, we'll sign off with, please write to us at Dumanifel pod at gm.com. Find us on the social at Dumanifel pod.

Taylor is doing an inventory of everybody who is a subscriber. And if you're not on the list, then she's going to personally send you a very nasty. letter. I did personally thank everyone who is both my follower and our follower. And then you're also talking to your Rattlesink lady to ship a Rattlesink, everybody that's not following, right? Yeah, good call. Good call. And the irony is they will never listen to this. They'll never know. They can't prosecute us. I guess I can enact my revenge upon them. there you go.

I do have a revenge list after all. See? Don't support me. There you go. But if you support us, yes, please do an Apple podcast review will be awesome. Stars are good.

Words would be awesome as well. Go to our, engage with our socials, engage with our YouTube. If you just like subscribe and like things, that's really, really helpful. So please, please do that. If you're hearing breathing on my mic, it's Luna breathing in my face.

So apologies. Sweet. Anything else, Taylor? Taylor froze. So I'm going to go ahead and say, say nope. That's it. Thank you. That's it.

Yeah, yeah. I'm back, I think. Fine. All righty. I'm going to cut things off.