Doomed to Fail - Ep 145 - Witch Trials: Not just in Salem!

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

Let's hop back into Spooky Season with a very quick history of Witches! We'll talk about what makes a witch and about witch trials in Germany in the 1600s that led to thousands of burnings, specifically the Würtzburg Witch Trials. On the way there, we will talk about Salem, The Malleus Maleficarum (aka Hammer of Witches), and we will talk about how, between 2019 and 2019, more than 20,000 people were killed on suspicion of witchcraft.Again, you do you, just don't hurt people. As the judge in a 2010 murder case said - "The belief in witchcraft, however genuine, cannot excuse an assault to another person, let alone the killing of another human being." Agree to agree. Sources:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliban_and_the_Witch#:~:text=Caliban%20and%20the%20Witch%20explores,Marx's%20theory%20of%20primitive%20accumulation.Most witches are women, because witch hunts were all about persecuting the powerlesshttps://theworld.org/stories/2019/10/23/most-witches-are-women-because-witch-hunts-were-all-about-persecuting-powerless15 Mind-Blowing Things I Learned from Caliban and the Witch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd9N9DueMHshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliban_and_the_Witch#:~:text=Caliban%20and%20the%20Witch%20explores,Marx's%20theory%20of%20primitive%20accumulation.Würzburg Witch Trials - Germany's Deadly 17th Century Witch Hunt - https://www.jahernandez.com/posts/wurzburg-witch-trials---germanys-deadly-17th-century-witch-huntThe Witchcraft of Salem Village - https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-witchcraft-of-salem-village_shirley-jackson/431862/item/2016034/#edition=1934296&idiq=9702038The Salem Witch Trials - A day by day chronicle of a community under siege - https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-salem-witch-trials-a-day-by-day-chronicle-of-a-community-under-siege_marilynne-k-roach/389116/item/10313529/Ancient Mysteries: DARK HISTORY OF WITCHES - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiqFVEZZMsoConcept note on the Elimination of Harmful Practices related to Witchcraft Accusations and Ritual Killings - https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/tools-and-resources/concept-note-elimination-harmful-practices-related-witchcraftChild witchcraft claims increasing as ‘hidden crime’ is investigated - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/08/child-witchcraft-claims-hidden-crime-met-police-under-reported Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

It's a matter of the people of the state of California versus Hortlandthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Welcome back. Taylor, how are you? Good. How are you? I'm coping. I'm okay. I'm coping. There's a lot going on. Life has been kind of nuts lately. As some of our listeners might know, we took a little when we were.

week break and we've been traveling and doing all the things. And so now we're back and excited to be back. Yes, I am excited to be back. Yeah, I know. I had terrible internet where I was traveling and then it wouldn't have mattered because the internet at my house was out all that day anyway. And it was just a whole thing. So thank you for letting us move this to another time. Thank you, audience. All 15,000 million of you. Thank you. Thank you. Sweet, do you want to introduce us? Yes. Hello, 15 million of you. Welcome to doomed to fail, where the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week, most weeks, like 99% of the week.

And I am Taylor joined by Fars. We actually have a pretty consistent track record. We really do. And this goes to like the fact that if you really, what's that old saying, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go Fargo with somebody else, then like this is like a really good. testament to that because but for the accountability that we have to each other if it was me doing this i would have gone like four episodes in i've been like i'm kind of tired i'll start again next month but like you know we keep each other we keep each other on a schedule we do i am i am surprised and impressed

at how long i've done this yeah and it's i mean the numbers are growing which is a good sign yeah we hit um we hit a 22 000 downloads it's week we can't reveal our actual numbers taylor Whatever. I still think that's good. I mean, we're not like, I definitely see things and they're like, we have 10 million downloads. And I'm like, what are you talking about? But still. I know. I was, I have like my favorite comedy show. It's every Monday. It's called Kill Tony. And it's, I looked at the like the latest, the latest one that was released was like 3.2 million views like a week. I was like, God. What? How? I mean, it's pretty famous at this point. But again, that's another example of, I mean, that show started 12 years ago at the Comedy Store in Hollywood, and there was like three people there. And now you can't buy tickets to it because they're sold out like months in advance.

I mean, that's just how those stuff goes. So we'll get there. We'll get to those numbers. Yep. Only eight more years and we'll be there. Sweet. So what are we? Who, am I going first today or you or it doesn't matter?

I am, it doesn't matter. I can go. Yeah, go for it. Cool. Also, it's, it's Florence's birthday. She's 10 today. Did you see? No way.

That's my daughter for folks and it's wild. Fars knew me before I even had one baby. I know. I know. One of them's 10. Isn't that crazy? It is kind of crazy. You know what's crazy as I was thinking about that because I was like,

looking at my hairline. I was like, man, this is a thing. is not doing good. This is just, I'm not winning the battle. Not going down. Yeah. It's not going. But then I was like, you know what though? Like, you're 40. Like, this is what happens. Like, it's, it's fine. Like, get accustomed to the fact that I'm old, older. And, uh, and then, you know, it'd be different if I was like 17, um, with this airline. But now it's like, okay, fine. Like, just live with it. It is what it is. So it's fine. Growing old is a privilege. It means you didn't die. Yeah, no kidding. Here we go. Um, um,

So good for us that we're still alive after all this time. Who would have thought? Yeah. Cool. I am happy to start. So I have been doing a lot of scary movie watching and like spooky stuff. And I was going to do some like, I don't know, I couldn't, I couldn't figure out exactly what I wanted to do to be spooky. So I wanted to, well, wait, first before I start, did you do, you do your outlines in Google Docs, right?

Yes. Did you see that they have tabs now in Google Docs? No, I wasn't paying attention. Oh my God, it's like something I have been waiting for so you can have like several docs and like one link, you know? I don't know. I just, it's very helpful to my brain. So here's this thing, Taylor.

Like I actually don't even look up and drive my docs anymore. If you just start typing the name of the doc in the search bar, just show. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I know. Okay. Yeah, I know. I'm just saying there's a new feature in them.

And anyway, it's lovely. Another, the last big feature was when they like made it. so you can just chip a link. It, like, saves hours of my life. Oh, yeah, look at that. Okay, I'm seeing it now. Nice. You know what I mean?

Anyway, so I'm only telling you that because my outline is in two tabs and it's just like all I've ever wanted. Because I have so many sources and I don't, I don't even know what to do. I feel like I'm wrong with my own library for this. I'm not going to make you guess. I'm just going to tell you. Okay, cool. I want to talk about witches.

And a couple witch trials in particular. And then also just like a little bit on like what a witch is, where they came from. And then some stuff is happening right now that has to do with witches as well. And so I was going to do like the classic Salem witch trials. But I feel like you would be like everybody knows what that is Taylor. And then I also felt that way after I was doing it. Because like I obviously know I have already read a ton about. it and so of you.

Didn't we also cover part of this? I mean, read as in like, you know a lot about it. We covered, we met some of our main characters when we talked about Thomas Horton, I think, William Bradford in Salem-ish, Massachusetts. Okay. Sounds familiar. A while ago. So we did a little bit.

But I do want to just touch on them a little bit. And if you were, if you could see me, I know we have her cameras off. I have like a thousand books here in a pile, but I do want to make some suggestions. If you do want to learn about the Salem Witch Trials, and I feel like you should, it's definitely super fun and very interesting. Don't read. There's a book called The Witches, Suspicion, Betrayal, and Hysteria in 1692, and I read it when it came out, because I was like excited about it.

It came out in 2016, and I can't find my review on Amazon, but I'm pretty sure I called it barely readable. It's just like a really bad book. So don't read that one. But I do have from obviously I listened to the last podcast one on the witch trials. And I have a book that's the Salem Witch Trials day by day chronicle of a community under siege by Marilyn Roach. And the last podcast guys interviewed her as well. She's lovely. And it really is like minute by minute what happened. So if you really want to get into the details, you can do that. And then also if you really just want to know more about it, there's a Shirley Jackson. And Shirley Jackson is my favorite author but she wrote like a young adult short book on it just the witchcraft of salem village so

that's really where you should go if you want to know what went on you know and the recommendation of last podcast of course and the last podcast one is really good as well they definitely uh talk about how like it's not so it's not i thought the devil obviously and it's not ergot ergot the the um the thing in the wheat that maybe made them crazy it's not any of those things it really is it's a story of girls who are bored and they have a wild imagination because religion at this time specifically and we'll talk about some more examples like they're talking about the devil as like a very physical thing you know like he can come to your house and make your daughter do stuff you know so they they have that they have that background but they mostly are just

like bored and want attention um we also get the the Mathers who have talked about caught in an increase I think I've mentioned them

because I love those names so much. You did. You did. I remember that. Yeah. Increase Mather.

But I do want to put a pin in that, which is a witchcraft joke because they put pins in people. I do want to read an apology that the people involved in Salem

wrote in 1696. This is from Shirley Jackson's book, but the jurors some of the jurors wrote quote we do therefore hereby signify to all in general and to the surviving sufferers and special our deep sense of and sorrow for our errors and acting on such evidence to the condemning of any person and do hereby declare that we justly fear that we were sadly deluded and mistaken we do heartily ask forgiveness of you all whom we have justly offended and due desire according to our present minds we would none of us do such things again on such grounds for the whole world, praying you to accept of this in a way of satisfaction for our offense

and that you would bless the inheritance of the Lord that he may be entreated for the land. So, like, they're like, yeah, no, that was crazy. I mean, we're sorry. That's not going to go very far for the people that were drowned.

Yeah, no, they were all hanged in Salem, but yeah, no, 100%. Did they drown? I thought there was like a, Wasn't a chair thing, a Salem Witch? No, I don't think that happened there. I think mostly they were hanged, but there are, there is drowning. And there's a lot of torture in this story in general about witches. But I want to talk about witches in general and then two things that happened right before Salem in Germany that have a way higher death toll.

And so I did a little research on like, what are witches? and, like, I'm cool if you're a witch. I also, like, went through a weird phase where I bought some, like, spell books. You know, that makes you feel better. Again, like, do whatever you want. You know what I mean? I know you're holding a crystal right now.

And that's fine. You're specifically talking to me, right? I'm talking to you, yeah. I know you're, like, flushing your upside-down cross and a crystal necklace that you're wearing. And, like, that's fine if that makes you feel better. And if you want to, like, have her, and, like, do spells and, like, I'll stage a place, you know, just to make myself feel better.

And, like, all of that I love. If you want to do any of those things, definitely do it. And then I was also thinking, like, what, you know, where do we get the concept of a witch from? Also, like, what other things happened to witches and people who were accused of witches that I hadn't even, like, thought of before. So we were watching a scary movie. We've watched scary movies, like, pretty. often in October with our friend Jay and one of them that we watched that is like not very good and

it's from the 70s it's called blood on Satan's claw and it's like from the 1970s but it's like going back to like a puritanical time in in England where there's like serfs and there's all these like people caught up in witchcraft and they are it's like very it's a very ridiculous film but um in that one in another one called Hagazusa. Have you seen that one? Hagazusa? No. I will say this one looks awesome, though. Blood on scenes I mean, it's a vibe.

But in both of them, there's a scene with sexual assault, and I was like, right, like, how much sexual assault was also involved in this? You know, when you have, like, people in jail and people who are, like, being tortured and all these things. So I'm like, what is the history of that? And then someone in our in our scary movie group suggested that I read a book called caliban and the witch

which I didn't have a chance to read it because it's like a pretty dense academic book about witches and it ties it into feminism and capitalism but I did watch a YouTube video of someone summarizing it so I'm going to put those things on as well and then I watched this like obviously we've talked about how the history channel is like not a reputable source on history but there's a a show I watched called, like about which history it was narrated by Leonard Nimoy. So it was pretty awesome. And there's a woman in the, in the history channel thing that I watched who keeps referencing the human community. So she's like, well, the human community thinks this about witches.

And I'm like, what other community is there? It sounds like something people that we knew in L.A. would say. You're like, oh, okay. So what is the other community, ma'am? But anyway, I thought that was delightful. So I want to talk about the 15, 1600s, kind of in the U.S. and in Europe, about when people started to really kind of get riled up in this, like, witch trial and witch hunt things. So again, reminder, it's been nearly impossible to be alive for most of time. Just like everything's terrible.

I mean, yeah, like what you just said, we're lucky we're in our 40s because 300 years ago, 400 years ago, that wasn't a given. Exactly. I'm lucky I didn't. I'm lucky that I have two children and I have not died having my age child. Yeah, exactly. Like at 26. Like, yes, very, very lucky that all of that's happened. But to go even further back, before Christianity and other monotheistic religions, there were a ton of like female. And this is like, if I could quit my job right now and like write a book about this, I probably would because there's so much. But then all of a sudden there was like one God and that God was a man. So the church started to do things like regulate women, regulate sex, you know, blame women for, you know, all sorts of things. And in around the 1500s in Europe, they started to do things like clothes, brothels and, um, And really, like, start to regulate sex work in a way that they hadn't ever really done before. And they started to do things like make the land into parcels and do things like have a lord and like a bunch of serfs underneath that guy where you really had to like work a lot harder than you did before when you were working like more in a community. And there are people who are like the heretics. And the heretics are really people who were trying for like a free equal society.

I mean, didn't want people to accumulate wealth. And so a part of that, a part of, and this is like from Caliban and the Witch that book is that like if you were using magic, quote unquote magic to do things, then you were getting what you wanted without work and that was not okay. So like that's like one of the thesis that is in that book, the Theses in that book is like, you know, they wanted to, the idea of being able to magically get something was against like capitalism. Does that make sense?

I think that's kind of where I mean, sort of. I don't think capitalism as a concept was a thing. Yes. I'm saying it is that. It's starting to be at this time. Okay. For like the first time, you know. So as far as like women went and doctors,

I think we've talked about this a lot or like, you know, you don't know anything about the human body until like two days ago, you know. And like a lot of women, still, we barely knew anything. And women were a lot of the first doctors because they were like, you know, gathering herbs and like seeing what could help people and what couldn't. They were also around to, you know, help people have babies. And you could be a midwife and you could be like an older woman who your family is like your children are grown or dead or whatever. Your husband's dead.

You live by yourself and you make a little bit of money by being a midwife. you know, or you get, like, food or get taken care of. So you go around and you help people have babies. And you can have, like, a hundred great births and then, like, one baby could die and then they would blame you, you know? Like, really, you're doing, like, how could you know? Babies die now and we have hospitals, you know? But they would be like, she's a witch because of that.

And that makes things kind of feel kind of scary and out of control. And there were men who were accused of being witches. but like for the majority of it is is witches and then in the 1400s in Europe there is a treaties that becomes a law that is called the malius maleficerum malice malifurum which means a hammer of witches which is like a law on how to find a witch and how to persecute a witch and it's an awesome name. And what it sort of says is, and this was like a book, it was like a book that was like printed or copied. I can't remember when we started printing books, but like sent around so people could find witches. And the idea was, witches are real because Satan is real. So Satan must

have people on earth that are doing his bidding and those are the witches. And witches do recruiting on behalf of Satan. And they're mostly women because women are easily manipulated and they are, quote, defective at all the powers of both soul and body. So that was the first part of the book. Other things that it said that witches would do, they would have a pact with the devil. They would have sexual relations with the devil. They would be able to fly for the purpose of attending like big assemblies presided over by Satan itself. And that's like, you've seen the witch, right?

Oh, yeah. Like the end of the witch, you know, where they're like naked in the woods. That was an awesome, awesome movie. So good. So good. So, like, that's what people are believing is true, you know? Also, witches do the practice of Maleficent Magic and the slaughter of babies.

So if you were someone who was around dead babies because you were a nurse or a midwife in whatever way that meant, then, like, that put you higher on the list of purpose. potentially being a witch, you know? I feel like all of this is just sort of rooted and people are just bored and have nothing but misery around them. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, I mean, that's exciting, I think. If you're like, could there be witches here?

You know? Yeah, of course it would be. My first thing when you said that was like, did somebody see something? And then that's, because you know what it reminded me of was we keep referencing the last podcast. The episode they did on The Black Plague And how like one in one of these towns and forever like

1300 or whatever there was like a large Jewish population And then like a Christian boy was killed And they just made up they're like okay so the kid is dead There's a lot of Jews here Jews must be killing kids And then it morphed into then they do this for the Sabbath Like every weekend and it's done to You know, you can see how it goes from one to the next, the next, the next, the next. And just pile on thing, everything, everything.

Exactly. And, like, we mentioned the other day, like, and then all of a sudden, like, Hillary Clinton's drinking baby blood at a pizza hut. Yeah, like, I know it sounds crazy, but it kind of makes sense. Like, if you get one thing, if you start with one thing and then, like, you believe it. Yeah. Yeah, if you believe it, exactly. Exactly. No, totally.

If you're like, if you were like, I believe this, I believe this is a physical thing. thing the devil is a physical person you know everything that's bad that's happening and like we'll see in the one particular story i've got to tell you like the crops all died one year you know so like that affects everybody so you're like who can we blame for this you know it's like kind of rational well you have to yeah if you don't if you have to you have to do something to be like how do I live through this. Yeah. You know, like in every way.

So the book also, the Malias Malificarium also has had a prosecute a witch. So this is kind of what you're talking about with like the chair and the water. You know, like throwing them in the water. If they swim, they're a witch. If they drown, then they're not. You're like, but they're dead. Right, right. They would, like women who didn't cry while they were in, in trial.

were automatically believed to be witches because they didn't have enough enough emotion during the trial. In Salem in particular if you, anyone who confessed to being a witch was not killed. The people who were killed were the people who would not confess.

Yeah. It's also a lot of torture. So there's a lot of things that you can imagine, but smashing of bones was a big one, like a thumb screw where they would put your thumb in kind of like a press and just like press your thumb until your bones cracked. And they do it with like bones all over your body.

They would do things where they would like lay people on on beds and like smash their feet. Kind of like misery, I think. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Worst scene ever. Yeah. In the book, she chops off his feet with an axe. I don't know.

The movie's even, I feel like the movie's more brutal. I think so, too. I think so shoot. And then, oh, they would do a thing where they would like tie your wrists behind your back and drop you by your wrist. your arms would go out of socket. I don't let you hang there. Just like terrible things to torture people. Again,

these are all signs of an incredibly bored populace with way too much time. And being able to like to do that. There's also that just reminding me you saying that there's like a Dan Carlin on pain foetainment, which is about like people going to watch these hangings and going to watch people be guillotined and just how violent, how that mass violence was like something you would like bring a picnic to. So crazy. know. So again, it's a little bit of background. So I am kind of just setting the stage, like the pre-Salem in Europe, there are witch trials that are going to happen. And some examples and just

some numbers. So thousands of people were burned for witchcraft in Europe between 1500 and 1700. And they were burned in Europe rather than being hanged like they were in Salem. And And I think that there's a couple reasons that people were doing it that way, like to make sure the devil doesn't have a body to come back to, you know, so like other witches couldn't take their body parts and, like, do spells with them, like all sorts of reasons that they would do it. And it kind of starts after, and again, this is like, if you were in seventh grade, this is like a very terrible lecture about the Protestant Reformation right now.

But in 1517, Martin Luther thesis, Protestant Reformation, And 100 years after that, in 1618, starts the 30 years war in the middle of Europe. The 30 years war is specifically between Protestants and Catholics. And it's like, you have to be one or the other and then you have to like fight the other one. And everyone's upset and everyone's worried because it's like very violent. And it's just like very, they're both like, I'm right. I'm right. Of course, just like people fighting over the same God.

And the story I want to tell you about is about the witch trials in Wirtzburg, Germany, is right in the middle of Germany. And Würzberg was a town, an area that was very Catholic. So they picked Catholicism on the side of Catholics versus Protestants. And so that meant everybody needed to be Catholic. And the people were, again, like really nervous. And so in between 1612 and 1617, 350 people were burned. by the bishop Julius Ector von Meppelsbrun and he kind of had like, that was like a little

mini witch hunt. And then after once a 30 years war started, the person in charge of Würzberg was a man named Philip Adolf von Arenberg. And von Arenberg is like the bishop in charge and it's 1626 and he's like, anyone who is not fully a thousand percent Catholic in Vortzburg, we need to root them out and we need to find them. So this is like also the counter reformation. So they're like against the reformation that Martin Luther did and like very, very like we're doing the right thing because of God. And that year, 1626, there's a frost and the grape harvest fails, which could be a witch controlling the weather. Right.

And it has very similar things that we heard in Salem that like is familiar to a lot of us. like neighbors are fighting so if i'm like oh my neighbor far's like stole my pig he must be a witch you know um and you could just like are blaming other people and the first people who were killed were poor women of course um they would torture them they would search for witch marks which is like if you had any like birthmark or a weird mole like that was supposed to be a place where you know the devil had touched you or you could like nurse the devil you know in the in the in the blood on satan's claws they do a girl has a witchmark and oh my gosh they cut it off of her and it is like they're peeling off of a shitty prosthetic it's so funny

it's like so very like what did you just do it doesn't they did a bad job it was fun um again anyone who confessed wasn't killed um and sometimes you could live by accusing someone else so that happened a lot in in worthsburg um in in the first year 50 priests were killed 50 children from the orphan if orphanage were burned because they were accused of having intercourse with the devil and wild you know it's funny you know what's funny is as you're saying this i'm like none of this is surprising i know no i know um philip's nephew von erenberg's nephew himself was killed um in the city 219 people were were burned but outside uh 900 people were executed for being suspected of being a witch, about one third of the entire

population was accused. So the Wikipedia has a list of all of the burned people, the people who died. And the list is like, the brushmaker's wife, a strange woman, a strange man, the old wife of the court rope maker. So it's never like, it's like very few names, but it's like that weird old lady lived down the street, she had to go. Yeah. yeah i wonder if there was like a lot of um uh husbands who were like i'm kind of over this just you remember you remember the yeah so that was the thing with um whalers too like when men would go whaling to be gone for so long and we're like thank god just get out here yeah and you're gonna die you're gonna die anyways or like in um in that Monty Python where the it's like

the plague but the guy's like he's like I'm not dead and they're like oh he's gonna be dead soon just take him, you know, get him out of here. So finally in 1631, Philip von Arenberg died and the Swedish army came as part of 30 years war and the Swedish king was like, stop all of this. And he cut that out and they stopped it there. There were other towns in Germany. One was in the Bamberg. They had witch trials from 1627 to 1632.

It was very similar. And 900 people were killed in those. That one got so contentious. They had to bring in the Pope to be like. like everybody calmed down, you know, because it was like, I think I, I imagine that most of the people who were involved in accusing at some point must have been like, whoa, could this be getting out of hand? Even if they were like, I believe this with all my heart and soul, like, it's got to be a

minute where you're like, hmm, we don't have anyone else to, you know. that's thing every every generation has to have like some reasonable or rational person in it you know and you just really hope you're not that one in any generation because you want to be a part of the mob because if you're rational then you're targeted by the mob so for real yeah if you were like guys there's no there's no witches here you would definitely be a witch that's exactly what a witch would say this is how we're going to end up at the capital on next january 6th So I just wanted to tell you those, that mostly the Wordsburg trials, just like, you know, thousands of people killed as opposed to the handful that were killed in Salem.

But we, you know, obviously talk about Salem all the time because it's like in our, in our culture. And it's like, it's like a fun, I don't know, fun option, fun story. There is a comedian on Instagram. I'll find it. But he's like, he did a thing where he was like, I'm very pro Salem witch trials. If they hadn't done it, like they would have been overrun by witches. you're like I guess but something I didn't know

and I learned in the millions and millions of things that I read for this which is like just obviously the very very still think on top of the iceberg but I've read a report from the United Nations that between 2009 and 2019 at least 20,000 witches were killed across 60 countries

so this is still happening it's very underreported because people don't talk about it. But the report is an award doc, which is wild. You'd like download a word doc. But it had a stats that like in Tanzania in the 2010s, 2,586 older women were killed. During that time, 20 women were killed in Zimbabwe.

Lots of children are abused because they are accused of being witches. So they're, they like lock them in closets and tell them that they're a witch. and don't feed them and beat them. A hundred people were killed in Papua New Guinea during this time. In Ghana, a thousand older women have been banished to witch camps. We're just like terrible places where older women have to like try to survive together. And this is happening like right now. In places in Africa, people with albinism, so with, you know, skin pigment are dug up

because their body parts are said to be used in rituals to get rid of witchcraft. So they're like doing things like that. And one story that actually comes out of London is in 2010, there was a teenager named Christy Bamu, and he was a refugee from Africa. He lived in Paris, and he was visiting his sister in London with his siblings. And his sister was named Bagley and her boyfriend, Eric, they accused Christy of being a witch. He was just like a 15-year-old boy. And they accused other two sisters of being a witch, but the two sisters. they confessed and said that they were witches. But Christy, he begged for his life. They tortured him with glass and pottery and broken tiles. They beat him and eventually drowned him in the bathtub during an exorcism. And this was in 2010. And both his sister and his sister's boyfriend, this was just the outskirts of London, received up to 30 years in prison each. And the judge said, quote, the belief in witchcraft, however genuine, cannot excuse an assault to another person, let alone the killing of another

human being. What were they ethnically what were the they weren't like obviously like local to London. No they were they were from they were from Africa and let me find out where he was from

home country because this kind of plays into like this theory I've always had that they're from the Democratic Republic of Congo yeah so it's kind of plays into this theory i've always had which i like brought up one time in the context of the running of the bulls where i like friends from america who had gone there and witnessed it and i think we have this perception in america of like we need to honor everybody's

culture it's like you'd fuck that shit like that is a fucking first off the running of the bulls is bullshit they should fucking be embarrassed to themselves for the fact that they do that to those animals and the same tool's true here it's like when i did my episode on honor killing it was like yeah so i'm middle eastern i can say this but with impunity like that is a stupid part of i mean not me and my family's culture like a cultural thing that middle eastern people have done and do and it's like that's really dumb and this is really dumb and so yeah the secret if you learn nothing else in this episode just learn that you can totally disregard every culture i don't know if that's exactly what i want the thing maybe not totally maybe not totally

maybe we'll back it up a little bit but like be be a witch in a fun one have some herbs around but like I think like as judge said like if if you're afraid that someone is a witch like just don't talk to them don't kill them you know like you should maybe talk to someone about your own fears of being followed by a witch because you're not being followed by a witch I don't know yeah like if you're scared of witches and you live in Austin go to Yarrow and Sage yeah it's a great little store and you'll be surrounded by like witchcraft stuff And it's just the most innocuous, innocuous, innocent stuff. And you'll be fine.

Everybody's going to be fine. Everything's going to be fine. Like, there's no, there's just, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I feel, I didn't realize how people were still being like, oh, which is our following me around, you know, because we talk about Salem, like, oh, my God, that was so long ago. And obviously, like, all the things. And, but, yeah, it's still happening. Nuts. Nuts.

I do recommend. if you haven't seen The Witch Oh my God, it's so good It's so moody It's like the perfect movie For like it's dark out Like a candle You know

Hopefully it's cold out It's so fun You know what I wish Like I wish Do you remember this is very very specific But in the very beginning of the witch When they're getting kicked out of town They like show you the town for a second

And it's like You know like the Native Americans are like Walking through the town and then like the people around, everything's really gray and wet and just, like, feels really oppressive. And you only see it for like a couple seconds. I'm like, I wish you could explore that more, you know. It's moody.

It's awesome. It's so fun. It's really cool. Yeah. Sweet. Well, nice recommendation. Good story. Fun story.

Fun for the time that we're in. And actually, my story that I'm going to cover this week also touches on some of the things you brought up, which is a fun little dovetail. But yeah, I think that's, that's all we got. Do you have anything to read out? in terms of a list of her mail. I do. I need to ask our friend Morgan

if I can share her photos, but I sent them to you. They're a friend Morgan who amazes me at all of her travels has actually been to Floriana Island that you talked about in your episode. That was so cool. Yeah, Taylor sent me these pictures.

I was like, hey, my friend has been there. And she took a picture, I'm trying to find him now, but she took a picture of the post, the mailbox thing, which was like, the guy who was her guide was the grandson of the kid that was born in the cave.

Yeah. Not wild. So it makes sense because like I was talking then, like their family still is there. They are still the ones who literally run the entire island and the entire tourism industry there. It's so cool. What a delight. Look at those little flamingos. That's so cool.

I wonder if they smell as bad in real life as they do in zoos. Question for the community. Let us know. In zoos, you know when you're by the flamingos because they smell terrible. Right. Right to us if you know. Jimtifelpod at gmail.com. Find us on all social media.

Sweet. Anything else, Taylor? That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll go ahead and cut it off.