Doomed to Fail - Ep 16: Mutiny in the Marriage - the tales of Andrea Yates and HMS Bounty

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

Andrea Yates murdered her five children, and this week Farz tells us that awful story. Before the murders, it’s actually a story of mental health, religion, and a question of what do people really want in their lives. Taylor tells the unredeemable story of The Mutiny on the Bounty. There is colonization, enslavement, lots of sex crimes, and one official mutiny. We’ll just tell you now there’s also a guy named Thursday October, which Taylor LOVES and Farz hates. Plus, one bonus true crime story involving Marlon Brando, who we all agree is dumb handsome.  Follow us on Instagram & Facebook @ Twitter!  @doomedtofailpodFollow us on Instagram & Facebook!  @doomedtofailpodhttps://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpodYoutube - https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpodSources:Mutiny on the Bounty by William BlighThe real story behind the infamous mutiny on the H.M.S. Bounty WikipediaA Cry In the DarkPhotos via the public domain Andrea Yates via Oprah.com & Time Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In a matter of the people of the state of California, first is Hortonthal James Simpson. Case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. And I guess we can go ahead and kick things off. Are you good, Taylor? Yeah, I'm good. I'm ready.

Okay. Welcome to Doom to Fail, the podcast where we, I don't know, just travel. I can't. I'm, I'm, uh, God. What are you even talking about? We don't travel. I mean, we travel, but not for the podcast. We'd like to someday. Have us in your city.

Yes. Talk to the local venue. If a local library has like a spare conference room, ask if we can host. No. Okay. So no, we're the podcast where we're constantly traveling as individuals. You were in San Diego.

I was in Denver. We're probably the most jet-setting podcast of any podcast hosts. in the world right we are no absolutely absolutely then you'll be in palm springs and then i have to go to l a right after that so jet setters jet setters breaking down barriers absolutely so obviously this voice being heard is taylor um our co-host uh how are you doing today taylor good very uh we just got back from san diego and then or last night and then so i to come home from a vacation like on saturday so you have like sunday to calm down you know so today we're just been like cleaning up we went to a birthday party it's very springy

out here it's beautiful finally we my neighbor came over i didn't see her she kind of she just snuck by but left us a big beautiful like bouquet of lilacs um that i brought in the house and it smells amazing but i feel like i might dive allergies any day what's sweet neighbor i know it's really nice really pretty i don't even know my neighbors i like barely i barely have neighbors and i could do a much better job so i need to go down her say thank you and all that yeah uh so let's go ahead and segue into our stories and if i am correct on this i go first this time you do thank you so i'll tell you what i'm drinking yes i'm drinking the pacifico i rl um but i am drinking rum by the teaspoon okay which is the only way i drink

rum. Yeah, they're a teetotel. That's how you do it when your teetotal. Teaspoon. Teaspoon at a time. Yeah. Well, that's why you never get drunk. That's why we call you sober Taylor. Everybody calls me that. Everybody calls you that. Weird. Yeah. So I should be drinking Coors. Like I said, I just got back from Denver and we talked about Coors in the episode where we discussed Chris Watts. And now I'm drinking real Coors, which is Coors Banquet, which is the tan, the colored can. And they're great. They're really good. Are they okay? I was going to ask if it was delicious or not.

But I think it's a nostalgia of it. It's like I kind of miss being in the Colorado and like it's kind of cool to like, yeah, have a taste of the Rockies. But what I actually- You were in Colorado like last week, like yesterday, right? It has a place of my heart. Oh my gosh. All right, continue.

I adopt the personality of any place I go. But so realistically for today's drink, I chose Lone Star. Are you familiar with Lone Star? star no what is that so it's a texas specific beer but it's probably the shittiest one it's what you get when you can't afford shiner or zegan bach i don't know if zeganbach is still considered good beer it was when i was in high school or college i'm in college um whatever whatever but it's basically it's got it's kind of like a course light like it's just like a kind of like a run of the mill it's not as bad as keystone but it's not as good as

you know this banquet version of course that banquet course yeah exactly and the reason we're doing that is because we're going to be in texas which is where you need to be when you drink lone star makes sense and the reason we're in texas is because we're going to be discussing an angel of a woman oh a lady Andrea yates oh yeah see i set you up i say you up for failure she's not an angel about Andrea Yates and we'll be discussing it at length here. All right, let me know. Per usual, Taylor, I'm going to try not to make excuses for people who do messed up things, but this story intertwines two things that for me obviously makes sense.

Devout religiosity mixed with mental illness equals bad. Yeah. Yeah. How familiar are you with Andrea Yates? I can't remember the details, but I know that she killed a bunch of kids, her heads. She drowned them in the bathtub. Is she the bathub drowned her? She's the bathtub one. Oh, and the oldest one was like, I'll be good. Please don't do it.

It's funny. It's like, yeah, you're right. And I always mix this one up with the one who like buckled her kids in the seat of the back car and then said like a bunch of black guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I shouldn't talk more about that because maybe that'll be the next one I do. So yeah, you know that that's Andrew Reade's. And that's what everybody knows about her. She drowned her kids in the bathtub. And I went pretty deep down the rabbit hole trying to figure out, like, what was going on with this woman and how this all came about. And I literally just hit on devout religiosity and mental illness.

Later on, I'm going to describe why I'm prejudiced. And I came up with that because Andrea Yates has a unique distinction where any pet issue you have, you can attach to it. It's spousal abuse. It's loneliness. It's a women's place in society today. It's mental. It's like everybody can attach an issue to it. And mine are religiosity and mental illness.

So on one episode of last podcast on the left, you might remember, Henry said something that I'm going to paraphrase and probably semi-butcher here. He says something to the effect of religion turns dumb, naive people into dumb, violent people. Yeah. Do you remember that one?

No, but I get it. But I agree. Agree to agree. And that's kind of like what I kept thinking about as I was reading this. and um you know what taylor just look up the yates family okay i don't want to i'm sad i know the kids make me sad to look at but andrea and the husband his name's rusty we're going to get into are it's interesting when i look at them because they just look so average

just painfully painfully average absolutely i have like no desire i mean i guess i should like i know a lot of people like my brother-in-law and his wife they always get like family portraits done like nice ones and i would just like never done that i just like that'd be weird if i like dressed up and like went to serious way too cool you're way too fucking cool for that that's like what lame people do look at the picture of and jayts and rusty and tell me that you belong in a similar photo lineup as they do no i don't oh beautiful boys yeah okay okay so in the case of andrew yates i think it took a repressed and depressed person and turned her into a violent

and numb person. That's what I get when I look at those pictures of Andy at Yates is like there's just nothing there. Like she's smiling, sure. But like in the eyes, which I know you don't agree, I just don't see a lot of life behind those eyes. Like there's something like the guy,

the guy's he's loving it. Like he's scored. Like he's doing great. I don't see that in her eyes though. Is she like, she doesn't have a job, right? to just succeed at home. Yeah. Yeah.

Some people like that, but yeah, also it can be very lonely and horrifying. Yeah, yeah. I'm actually going to lean on you a lot for this one, Taylor, because I don't know what it's like to be a mother or a woman, which I guess are kind of synonymous with one another. No, I wonder. That's hard. Yeah. I should have said woman and then mother, whatever, it doesn't matter.

And it also be like our age range because I, it's got to be kind of, in her case, awful. I know that there's a lot of happy mothers out there, but they also didn't have five children with the goal of having a lot more than that. So like, at 36. That's too many children. No, I mean, it's different for everybody. It's not, I don't think it's not super easy for anybody, you know,

but you just, like, have to figure it out, like, I have a great husband, so we split everything, you know, but other people don't. And, like, that could make it a lot harder. I also, like, I don't know if I told you this, but someone that I'm connected to on LinkedIn, like, started a group for, like, dads who it's like it's hard to be a dad and have a career and I was like this is fucking cultural appropriation like go fuck yourself it is not hard for a dad to have a career you know like when you have kids like women's value goes in the workplace like they get paid less you know like

if you tell people you have kids you get paid less a dad gets paid more because they assume that he can like work harder and we'll have more time so like the more kids you have the less you get paid if you're looking for a new job because the assumption is that you're not going to have time to do it like that still exists in the workplace today I mean yeah that's not this does not surprise me. Like this all sounds like it's, like it's been, since time of memorial has been the case. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard. But it's also wonderful. I don't know. My kids are a fucking delight. No, I want, I want you to talk about this when we get, I'll explain why I think

the way I do about her being a mother and why it all came out in the way that it did. But my main takeaway from this, like I just mentioned, it was like repressed and depressed. That is exactly what I see when I see her pictures. So. Yeah. Let's get into her background a little bit. So Andrea is from Houston, Texas, originally. Her father, there's so many things that intertwined from other stories here. Her father was first generation American. His parents were Irish immigrants. Andrea's mom is actually from Germany. So I bring that up because immigrant parents tend to put a lot on their kids with their expectations. And based on how Andrea turned down in high school, I think it's safe to assume that they were kind of traditional immigrant parents. They just were like helicopter parents, essentially. yeah she was valedictorian of her class captain of her swim team she was a leader in some way shape or form in the national honor society at her school and was just generally seen as an all-around great student kid student athlete classpaint you name it I would I would say that she's the girl that if you met her in high school you'd say oh she's she's gonna go places like she's she's

to be someone you know so we all know that over achieving so we all know that overachieving students are all kind of like harboring their inner demons like there's something going on when you care so much about your studies I think I don't know maybe I'm prejudiced about this like I graduate with a 2.1 GPA from high school like I was I was like pretty close to like I think it was like me and this cute like would start fires with the last two people they graduated in our class. So like I'm not of the ilk that like understands why someone would be a high achiever in high school. Oh my God. You're so funny. I mean, I wasn't I wasn't sporty, obviously. But, um, I was, you know, the secretary of student council. I was on the

National Honor Society. I was junior UN, right? You did junior UN. I didn't. I wish I did though. We didn't have that. I wish I had. Um, and then I had a extremely high grade point average. Seriously? Yeah. What was your GPA? I don't know, like 3.9 or something. Were you, like, top of your class, like, Ballotaurian? No, I think I was, like, 12 out of, like, 400 or something. I'm very smart farmers.

I think so. I may be making that up, but I'm going to say that for the record because no one's ever going to be able to check that. But I'm pretty sure I was like. That's so smart, though. That's so smart because you could be lying and literally nobody will ever know. They'll be like, Taylor is a genius. But it also proves how smart I am.

So no matter what path we take, I'm super smart. So I know that in any episode that we start talking about stuff, you're going to start yelling at me about things. And now I know that this is the thing you're going to yell at me about, okay? Okay, well, I'm saying that, like, I'm fine. But it also, like, when we do our homework with the kids, like, Juan has to do it because for us and I both get so stressed out and she starts to cry because I remember being eight and crying over my homework because it wasn't perfect.

You know? It was such different children we were, like vastly different. But this is, so this is the part where you're going to start being upset at me, okay? Andrea went on from high school to become an RN. And look, I love nurses. Taylor, you know I love nurses. Like, you met my exes before. And there's no shade to nurses at all.

But why the fuck would you work so hard in high school to become an RN? Like, it's a hard job, but it's not like being a, becoming a neurosurgeon. Like, why would you work that hard? Like, go fucking hang out with the kids. So the girl I'm dating now. I hope she's not here. But the girl I'm dating now, like, she's an RN. And, like, the story she tells me of her high school days,

like, she was, like, jumping fences, running away from cops. Like, that's what she did. It's just, it's not like, it's not like my high school grades mattered in my life, you know. But if your type of person that thinks that they matter, because people tell you they matter, like, I was. I just, like, worked really hard. I would have been, like, super disappointed if I hadn't, you know, it wasn't, like, to an end. interesting for the sake of learning and knowledge okay so i do have a rant that i'm not going to do

around how to raise children because i feel imminently qualified to discuss this topic especially in front of you that could be a side a side show but i do think there's something to rule followers versus rule breakers and how that manifests in adulthood i mean i also like when we were 15 we told this dude we met who was a college dude that we were 16 and I used to stay at the end of his house like every weekend and we just drink with college guys well that's rebellious but i got a lot of good grades that's rebellious yeah yeah it wasn't cool because that was very cool no no i totally believe that you were cool i mean you're so cool that's what we're gonna have dinner on thursday palm springs oh lord okay okay so i'm gonna keep

going please i'm sorry no this is great you asked for banter we're doing banter so So in 1989, Andrew met a guy named Russell Yates who went by Rusty and like he couldn't have been that old

but like a Rusty needs to be like an old grizzled Vietnam bet, right? Whatever, it doesn't matter. Rusty was a NASA engineer. He was on the engineering computer side of things

and he was fairly accomplished. His biggest downfall is that he is or was an evangelical Christian. Mm-hmm. So out of all the versions of Christianity that I look down on, evangelicalism is pretty much at the very top of that list. And what's interesting about this is that most of Americans agree with me. So I read this article that included a poll in a publication called Christianity Today.

The incredibly awesome and sassy title of this article is, quote, evangelicals are the most beloved U.S. faith groups among evangelicals. At first, I was like, I'm not going to read this article than I read the title. I was like, oh, I got to go through this. This is fantastic. So across the board of evangelicals in this poll are the worst faith group in the U.S. And the only reason why this article speculates the percentage isn't higher of people who hate evangelical Christian or the faith, not the people, is because a quarter of the Christians now

in the United States identify as evangelical. So that skews the results because they're not doing. and double blinds it's weird because i wrote down here because i think about catholics and i actually like kind of love catholicism because of how dark and morbid it is like there's just like it's vastly different than i don't know like it it'd be fun if it wasn't for all the kid raping you know i'm not going to disagree with you i'm not going to record but i understand i do like the i like the ceremony of the pomp the drinking of the blood yeah yeah it's like it's like really carbon kind of cool yeah yeah like in jesus is ripped right like he's jacked and ripped and it's

like none of that makes any sense but it's so cool yeah by contrast evangelical to me like it is i know this is another thing you disagree me about so i look at evangelical christians the same way i look at like woke progressives and that their belief system doesn't actually seem to be rooted in like reality so much is it is rooted in performance art that's truly how i feel about what progressives as i do with like these folks most of the beliefs in evangelical christianity are why republicans today are the way that they are i mean they are so i should have my research on this i didn't there was an amazing podcast it had to have been for economics or this american life but they did this amazing podcast on evangelicals as a voting block and how that was

literally the thing that saved the republican party when reagan was coming up it is a massive component of why conservatives are the way that they currently are being rooted in in in the face structure it's also rooted in the infallibility of the bible and it and also it's a very u.s centric religion as well so i thought about like manifest destiny and how like we're the best because we're americans that type of thing long story short is like rusty was evangelical Which is horrible because they are shitheads and their belief system is a joke. Yeah. And most Americans who are not evangelicals agree with me on that sentiment, as Christianity

today cited in their hilariously titled article. That's funny. That's Christianity today. It's like, fuck those guys. Yeah. So part of it is because actual Christians, actual people of faith don't think that religion and politics are, one, you shouldn't politicize your religion and turn it into what evangelicals did. They made a mockery in some ways of all these other Christian beliefs.

So anyways, totally. Moving on. So going back to Andrea and Rusty, one thing I read after they were married, because you'll learn later on that they've been through a ton of psychological discussions with therapists and stuff. Like real therapists or like the race? No, real therapist. Yeah, yeah. So one thing that came over and over again was them sitting together and saying that they really truly believe that they need to have as many babies as possible. Like, that is like what God wants for them.

They're supposed to do this. That's a big piece of this. And it all strikes me as Rusty's. It doesn't strike me as Andrea's. It strikes me as Rusty's belief system. So they did a good job. So they ultimately had five children. children. There was Noah, who's seven, John five, Paul was three, Luke was two, and Mary was

six months old. That is fucking bananas. So like this week we were at Legoland. I didn't go. I was had to work from the hotel. But my father-in-law went with Juan and our kids and they met up with a family that we know. So it was five kids. My father-in-law was like, get me the fuck out of here. This is too many kids. Like, and I'm from a family of five. It's too many kids. Yeah. Yeah. Especially that many under seven. That's crazy. like that's like i mean like it's i know people do it and and they do it but that just seems near impossible they're at most two years away from each other but there's also two that are less than a year from each other you just have to it just sounds it just sounds it sounds almost

impossible to me yeah in this again like this is the part where like your take on this is going to become really really nifty and handy is i don't know what it's like to go through this but um i think that the pregnancies and everybody agrees that the pregnancies had a lot of to deal with what ended up happening. So it's worth noting that signs of Andrea being depressed were kind of a constant theme. So it started out in high school. After everything happened when Andrea happened, friends came out saying that they remember

her talking about suicide. After Luke was born, so Luke, the two-year-old, Andrea tried to commit suicide by overdosing on prescription pills. Yeah, she'd be hospitalized for this and put on antidepressants. The suicidal ideations would keep coming on, though. she'd eventually be put on a cocktail of medications which did seem to stabilize her to some extent but the problem was they kept getting pregnant and she couldn't be on meds when she was pregnant because it would come out in the milk or something I don't know so like how this works but you have

to be careful with what you you know obviously when you're pregnant you're like you have a baby in there so you shouldn't like binge drink you know you can have like a glass of wine every once in a while that's not going to kill the baby and after you have the baby like you can have a glass of wine and that's not going to kill the baby in the milk either but I have been taking Zoloft for like 12 years and they said that like it's okay to to keep it to use it when you're pregnant and I tried to get off of it when I was considering getting pregnant for the first time and I like I was like no like fuck this I'm depressed like it was too much I need to be on it so I just stayed out of both through both my pregnancies so there are safe things that you can be on they might they might look they might have had different opinions on that 15 years ago it was the 80s yeah totally like the 90s or whatever yeah so no this was 2001 so i mean it was still a long time ago but like you know how people perceive medication for pregnant mothers changes i'm sure oh yeah totally so i will say this um this is very counter to my normal personality type

normally i would be talking shan rusty constantly you saw his picture super generic dude evangelical christian i don't really want to do that because i don't know subjectively what he was experiencing as part of this like i think that he looked at things as like my wife's crazy pumperful meds hopefully that'll work and but then i look at it i'm like what it what else do you do like i mean back then how does a husband treat you their wife in this situation you know like I don't yeah I look at it within the constant of the time that we're in and I'm like today

obviously have access to people you could talk to people and like research things like oh I need to do this with my wife I should do that like back then it's like yet you had nothing like he's just like a generic dude like I'm working every day and my wife is nuts I'm just gonna pumperful of meds and that's basically and he seems to be like

advocating for mental health now it is and he did back then but not but in like a weird traditional 35 year old husband in the early 2000s kind of way like it was just like not like he wasn't like an empath by nature and in a lot of this I look at this and like dude like you turn this woman into like a baby factory because of your religious beliefs yeah it just it takes it takes it's like so many women are depressed after they have one a baby you know

anything that must have your hormones like that you know being on birth control in general like all those things like they make you can make you crazy so so that taylor that taylor that taylor is actually that only affects one in 10 women that's postpartum which she had is called postpartum psychosis which affects a very very very very small subset of women and rusty was just ill-equipped to understand like yeah my wife's crazy it's like no no no dude like like she's like she's like dangerous like it's not just crazy she's like dangerous at this point my my thing was all like dude stop like being this guy and just hire a babysitter for a week take your wife to hawaii like let her experience a different lifestyle different like do you imagine this

this is the part where i don't understand where like wake up every day every day is the same there's five screaming babies i got a nurse three or four of them constantly like how horrible is that is that a good life i don't know there's no there's people who love it i think legitimately my mom did it my well we were like 12 years stretched out through 12 years but she stayed home with us and she loved it um so you know a lot of people that that's that's what they want that's their dream it's not for me like i have no desire to homeschool i have no desire to stay home with them um i think they should be out i think we should be separate during the day you know but um but i think there are people who genuinely do like it and that's like why i thought about like Andrea's in her

childhood of like, I did all the right things. I made the best grades. I did this. And then I married a man who has a great job and he's going to take care of us. And he wants me to make kids. So I'm going to make it. It's like she just did everything everybody else wanted her to do. And then like she wakes up and like this is her life. Like how fucking sad with that. I mean, I'm making excuses for again, but whatever it is, what is. Yeah. So this crime, what we're talking about here happened 22 years ago. So she was 36 years old. You're 36. You got five kids. That's. That's. that's your and in in coincidentally there was plans to have more both before and after the murders happened i'll get to that in a minute i know i know i'll get that in a minute it's absolutely insane

so in mid-1999 Andrea had more mental breakdowns more suicide attempts i have i've heard i have heard that doctors and researchers don't know why certain antidepressants work and why others don't you know the brain chemistry is a complicated thing they put it on some complicated mix of cocktails. It seemed to work, but occasionally it would stop working. They would change her cocktails and put it on something new. It seems to be a consistent thing with like mental illness and all that stuff. That's what you get with a 2.1 GPA when you're describing neuroscience. It's complicated shit. So she had another suicide attempt in mid-1999. Rusty apparently walked in on her trying to slice open her wrists.

Oh, Jesus. Yeah, she was again hospitalized. And while being treated for this attempt, Andrea is quoted as saying, like, you know, this stuff is so scary to me because like, it's like you're hearing someone's like demons come to the fourth.

It's so fucking scary. And then you look at the pictures of them smiling. It's like, I'm going to talk more about that. I'm going to compare it to a movie that you know, and then we both love. She was quoted as saying during, while being hospitalized here,

I had a fear I would hurt somebody. I thought it better to end my own life and prevent it from happening. There was a voice, then an image of a knife. I had a vision of my mind. Get a knife. Get a knife. Oh, my God.

Oh, God. So, yeah. So like I said earlier, Andrea was diagnosed with a much, much more severe version of postpartum depression called postpartum psychosis. I wish I remember the numbers on this. One in 10 women get postpartum depression. It was something crazy. It was like one in like 10,000 or 100,000 get postpartum psychosis. It's like exceptionally rare.

diagnosis. It's also referred to as PPP, and the symptoms include delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech, abnormal motor functions, confusion. They called it severe difficulty sleeping, mood swing in a whole host of other thing. It almost sounds like a schizophrenic. Like, it sounds like you're going through. It will learn later that she was actually having auditory and hallucinatory visions going on at the same time. Yeah, none of those things it's someone who should be around children. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's interesting that they had her hospitalized, but then she went back. I guess she had me, what are you going to do? Well, so here's, so I actually didn't write this in the outline, but it was an interesting point that I probably should have, which is like towards the end when things really hit a crescendo, because you're going to see she's been hospitalized many, many times. One of those times, the doctors tried to involuntarily commit her. they're like she's dangerous like you need to like we got to do this yeah the husband was really adamant

saying no we'll commit her but it has to be voluntary i want we want to have control over it and when it ends and all that stuff and so they're like fine we'll acquiesce as long as you're going to do it he did it the problem was if you do it in a involuntary commitment there's no insurance limit on the maximum number of days that you can stay but if you do a voluntary commitment the insurance limit in Texas at a time for Blue Cross Blue Shield was 10 days. So we got 10 days of insurance coverage on the 10th day. Rusty's like, we're not paying out of pocket for this shit. And they checked her out.

Wow. They didn't mean she was good. They didn't mean she was well. He was like, what am I going to do? Am I going to spend $7,000 a day here? No, we got to check you out. Great. Good job, America.

You're kidding, right? Yeah. So her psychologist. During this time told Rusty to not have any more children. So, yeah, she went to a psychiatrist and this is severe diagnosis. Like, this is not a joke diagnosis. The psychiatrist is like, guys, you'll really, really need to not have any more kids. Every time she has a kid, you are only going to exacerbate the PPP.

Seven weeks later, she conceived the fifth child, Mary. Oh, my God. Yeah. Stay away from her. I wrote down here, like, this makes Rusty sound awful. But when she was hospitalized, it's also worth noting that, like, nurses talked a lot about how diligent and supportive it was. He apparently went to work with, like, binders of her medical diagnoses with him. So you get, like, research things on the side.

He was always by her side whenever he wasn't at work. And would have regularly raise a fuss if she wasn't getting what he thought was adequate care. So she definitely wasn't well equipped to understand. understand the dramatic ramifications for this but he tried so how could you imagine yeah like this is the stories these are stories that you Stephen king makes up like you can't imagine this happening to your own life right yeah anyways going back to mary so she gave birth to mary in November of 2020 and in March of 2021 shortly thereafter Andrea's father died after an incredibly long stint with um Alzheimer's that was those apparently very debilitating

wait not 20 not 2020 i wrote 2020 i meant to write 2000 in 2000 okay great i was like that feels like it feels longer ago yes definitely so yeah march of 20 i was going to say it again march of 2001 is when andrea's father died and that seemed to be a jumping off point for this at that time she stopped taking her medication she started regularly cutting herself she stopped taking care of the kids or herself yeah where she had to be hospitalized again i keep picturing like what was this house like if you're rusty who presumably is normal what is this house like yeah horrifying like it sounds like a vision from a nightmare there's a there's i'll never find this again and you know what i'm probably

probably going to go post on Reddit to figure out what this was. There was a video I watched like forever ago where it was like it was a show or TV show or a movie. It was a clip of some sort. But there's a man in this like room watching TV and ignoring his wife. And the wife is trying to get him to pay him to pay attention to her. He doesn't. So she goes in the bathroom and breaks the glass window or the mirror and then starts cutting her face with the shards of glass and goes out and says, will you pay attention to me now?

Like, do you know what I'm talking about? Oh, no. That's horrifying. I need to figure, I need to find this because I saw it forever ago and it's been etched to my memories. I probably saw like 25 years ago and I still can remember this to this day. Oh, totally. That's a horrifying scene.

Oh, my God. Yeah, it was. It was. But I kept picturing it when I was doing research for this. So anyways, she, so again, Mary's born, father dies. She goes back into like this state that she's in. After being hospitalized got released again in a, month after that release experienced another episode where she became catatonic like she's starting

to she's starting to almost come across like she's possessed she later would tell police that on this day she filled the bathtub with water and just stood there staring at it we just stood there staring not saying anything probably not even blinking and she did also mention later on that she thought that what she was thinking about while she was staying there was killing her kids that day that was all she did uh again she got rusty came in found her doing this she got hospitalized again and then you know she goes over to um to the psychiatrist ward by this time it was pretty clear that andria was for sure suicidal and for sure incapable of caring for herself for the kids rusty was actually told by her doctors to never leave her alone and definitely

never leave her alone with the kids oh my god most of the time rusty didn't most of the time he didn't his theory on it after a while was like well look she's a grown woman eventually she's gonna have to be alone maybe i can like kind of wean her on to being alone with like right that makes sense i mean who knows and he would do this in like very controlled it was like a controlled experiment again like i'm giving him credit for this i don't know if i show but i am on june 20th of 2001 for one hour He left her alone. Rusty went to work and Rusty's mom, Dora, was supposed to come over an hour after.

So I don't even know if it was like for scheduled like that or anything. I think that Rusty planned it because he was like, yeah, give her one hour alone and then you show up, mom, and then take care of things, right? Right, let her try it for an hour. Exactly, exactly. So like, I don't know how much to blame him for that.

But I can say that during that hour, she filled the bathtub. up again and then systematically drowned all five her children oh my god she started with the eldest so she started with uh the not the eldest so two went under that it was luke who went first then paul then john she would then take their bodies and put them in her bed wrap them up in the sheets she drowned mary the six-month-old left the body in the bathtub and just kind of sat there with it. And then Noah comes in, the oldest boy, who's seven, and sees it and asks what's wrong with Mary. He apparently understood enough. I don't know how a two and seven year olds are to

things, but he understood enough to like know that, oh, something's really wrong and try to run away from his mom, which is like a crazy thought. Like I would never run. Like she matches seven running away from your mom. Like that's like your whole world. Oh my God. She eventually grabbed him and then drowned Noah as well. She then called the police and really didn't specify what was wrong. She would say, I'm Andrea Yates, you know, I need the police, yada, yada, yada. One thing she said was like, she basically, she just said it's time. Like, it was, it's all very biblical and cryptic sounding, you know?

Like, it was just, what does it mean? She then called Rusty and said, quote, you'd better come home to which Rusty replied, quote, is anyone heard? Andrea responded, quote, yes, the children, all of them. Oh, my God. I read out here, Taylor, like the movie I was referencing earlier was event horizon. And the reason I thought of Event Horizon was because there's this scene where the guy, our favorite character, Sam, Sam Neal, what's his name, Sam Neal?

Sam Neal, yeah. Where, yeah, yeah, whatever's character name was. He just like, once his eyes were removed that he became fully possessed, like, he just like talked in a deadpan voice. voice you're coming with us forever it's just like yeah you that in this woman it's fucking real and it's like in the 2000 so everything everything was covered in carpet in beige it's just all just grossest it's so terrifying yeah it did to me i wrote down it just felt like her soul was completely gone like i don't know why the direction of her mind went it went

the way it did but whatever so Andrea confessed the murders obviously she's insane right she claimed insanity and that was actually rejected so totally the way it works is that insanity is a defense it's like a different trial like you just say this person wasn't saying that's how you do it most of the time insanity defenses don't work because the way that you prove insanity is you have to prove that that person couldn't tell right from wrong at the time of the crime due to mental defect that's the legal definition of it there's a ton of cases out there where somebody does something absolutely horrible and then tries to cover it up. And the fact that they try to cover it up validates that they were not

insane. Because if you try to cover it up, then you know they did something wrong. So if you ever kill someone, just walk around with their skin draped around you like your normal, like go to the coffee shop and then like you will get off because it's like obviously nobody would do that who was, I'm not going to get off or you're going to go to a mental institution. I will discuss that as well because there's actually no timelines on mental, on involuntary commitments, which is interesting. The jury found, so the mental defense failed. They found her guilty and they sentenced her to life imprisonment. The prosecution wanted the death penalty. They were like, no, this woman is going to get life. Three years later, so she's on in a maximum security jail, three years

later, an appellate court reversed the conviction. This is insane. They reversed the conviction because they found that a prosecution's expert witness lied on the sand. The guy's name was Dr. Park Dietz. He had testified that weeks before the murder, a law and order episode aired of a woman who drowned her kids in a tub and then claimed insanity defense to get off. There's, so there's this woman that I'm going to reference a little bit later on. She wrote phenomenal articles about the case, the murders, her life. Like, she, her articles are mostly what I referenced for this. She wrote a book about it as well. And I'm going to talk, I'm going to quote her here later Ron. She was also the, uh, a writer for law and order during this time when this happened.

And she came out saying, no, I'm actually, I'm a journalist now who is covering the Andrew Yates trial. You referenced this time period of law and order that I was working as a writer on. We never did that episode. Huh. But he was just totally making shit up. Weird. Yeah. And so because of that, the appellate court was like, no, like that test. testimony could have been enough to have swayed the jury into thinking that she was literally just trying to fake being insane. So we're going to reverse the conviction. She was retried. She was found not guilty by reason of insanity. And then like I mentioned before, like this is an interesting part of the insanity defense. You don't actually get time for being insane. You're just held until you were evaluated to be determined to be sane again. So that could be a month, a year, never. It's totally. Yeah. Yeah.

And so that's where she ends up. She ends up in a mental facility in Texas. It's a minimum security facility. And every year, she gets to come up for review to see if she's healthy mentally enough to be released. And every single year since this would have been 2005, she's refused to go undergo her review. She doesn't want to do it. Yeah. Apparently, she's happy.

Yeah, what's you can do? Get a job? like apparently so as far as i understood it like she's just like numbed right like she's just on medication completely zonked out and it's just like just sits there and like it's like um it's like the the chief and one clue one flew over the cougars nest there's another answer i pieces which is like the blame component of it like i said i talked a little bit about rusty but everybody kind of blamed everybody else so the doctors blamed rusty because they're like we told you don't leave her alone we told you to involuntarily commit her like but i will say this the doctors never actually said that

they thought that she was a danger to the kids so they had an option to choose these like multiple checkboxes is this person a danger to herself is she a danger to her kids is she like so on and so forth and they didn't check the danger to the kids part and so they could have escalated this outside of Rusty's control if they had done that and they just didn't because I guess they didn't think it was that serious. Most people though blame Rusty, almost all of them. They blame his desire for kids, how quickly he wanted to have them, how quickly in succession you wanted to have them, the religiosity of everything that was involved gave this like dark component to this. Most of the reports come out and say that if it wasn't for the kids, this, well, obviously it's

wouldn't have happened well yeah i mean obviously yeah but but like my point being like if it was like you're a nuclear family you have two kids yeah probably not going to happen right on the on the on the religiosity so also the other part of this the media also blamed religion everybody blame whatever everybody blamed everybody it's worth knowing that Andrea noted that she didn't think that she was a good mother and then part of what they think was like in her head of this was like my kids are going to be like wicked sinners and they're not their immortal souls won't go to heaven if they grow up because they're going to be terrible because I'm a terrible person. I'm a terrible mother killing them will save

them from damnation. That's another piece of this. Damn, there was a really, really important piece of this that I forgot to put in here. What I didn't put in here that was really, really interesting and this was part of the article I read in the woman's name, the one that I mentioned earlier, her name is Susan O'Malley, she wrote that Rusty thought Andrea is going to get off. He was at the trial every day. He thought Andrew was going to get off

and was already starting to plan having more kids with her. What? Yeah. It's crazy. Like she's what? It's going to go home and be fine. Yeah.

I don't get it. That's really weird. Yeah. Did he get remarried? he did so he filed for divorce once she um came out of that maximum security prison uh and went into the psych board he filed for divorce and was granted that divorce it would have been 2005 he remarried a woman or he married a woman named uh laura arnold and then she filed for divorce from him into 2015 they have one kid together so he he stopped yeah that means six kids he had six kids in total that's nuts

wow so like i said um i'll shout this woman out because i actually think that her work was like incredible it was incredibly easy reading it was incredibly thorough it was awesome so the article that she wrote is called um a cry in the dark her name is susan o'malley and one thing that she points out about this case which is i think one of the reasons why it's so persistent in terms of like being top of mind for people she wrote down that each of us sees in the yates case own issues, the death penalty, children's rights, women's rights, men's rights, rights, the mentally ill, religious rights, or just plain righteousness. And that's like a really, really good point because like a lot of, I hate to say, like a lot of people kill their kids. It's

not like that, wherever an occurrence, like it happens. But this one was really, really unique because it, A, the number of children was crazy. And then there's so many other things were going on there so much is emptiness and sadness and like just i don't know yeah and it's still persist and i think it's going to be one of those cases that we like think about forever like it's just totally like it brings up just such a terrible feeling you know like i just i was think of that poor last kid who was like it was old enough to know what was going on and like i saw his sister dead in the tub and like ran away you know poor baby that's so scary so they probably I mean their life is probably so scary anyway yeah yeah

it had to be awful like I so on the on the on the on the on the point of the podcast like the whole doom or fell red flag part of it again because of how Susan O'Malley references this later on like I don't actually know what to hone in on other than live your live your truth like I know that sounds really hokey especially coming from a guy like me but like like if you don't want to be the valedictorian and you don't want to have like the perfect life with the perfect white bread husband who works at NASA and like instead you want to run away with like a fucking Harley Davidson writing guy to Vegas and get a bunch of like flame tattoos like do that like don't live a life that you don't want to live because you'll resent it and it's okay to change your mind like it's

okay like to maybe she like you know doesn't feel bad as bad as she did as you do against smart people in high school but like maybe she just like maybe she'll find her to do that and at some things were super out of her control bad because of her diseases no well so okay so this is the rant that i didn't do earlier that i'll do now is like if you if you don't have the muscle in you that is like i'm gonna do what i want and fuck what everybody else wants me to do i'm gonna rebel if you just don't have that muscle in you you can't expect someone just like pick that up and learn it at some point. That's why, like, like, I'm going to be the, you know, I got to be the best. I can be a valentorian. I got to do this. It's like you just don't, she just didn't have it.

She just didn't have that muscle in her of like, I'm just going to do what I want to do instead. And. And. Well, then I think, I think part of like the part with the post part of depression and that stuff is like you have in your head, you're like, I'm supposed to want this. Why do I feel this way? You know, and you feel like a failure. Maybe that. My takeaway from it. like yeah just like what does she say about it does she say anything Andrea yeah no then I'm pretty sure she just stares at a corner of a wall forever until she dies no I got my take on it was more like be cool with your kids like rebelling and like like that's healthy it should be a good thing and like they're more like you know you're okay yeah yeah

yeah that's like you know listen I'm gonna write a child I'm gonna not a child's but I'm I want to write a child rearing book, a guide on how to raise children, and it will be available in every swamp and sewer that has books, probably. That's what the world is asking for. More Fars. What does this childless 30-something-year-old man have to say about these and kids and how hard it is? You know what I notice? Taylor's like, this chair is like super squeaky today. Uh-oh.

I didn't imagine what's coming. I didn't hear it. so we are we are so that's my story wow so sad yeah it is it's it's sad it's fascinating it's fucking scary it's so scary to me it's it's it's like every horror possession movie i watch like this is it like this is yeah except it happened like yeah anyways um but on to your side of the equation i'm gonna pull out my teaspoon do you have teeth do you have bedroom cups no definitely not just curious i'll i'll grow up eventually and get spoons that measure things but not

not quite yet yeah you don't need to yeah 42 42 is the age when you start having to invest in like measuring cups okay you do you let me get an example yeah yeah cool well awesome thank you for sharing that terrible story let's flip over to talk about historical failure and a crazy story you might have guessed by the rum that we're going into the high seas and we're going to talk about the mutiny on the bounty have you heard of that before i have this is this is this is um oh my god this is this is an amistad is it no no because that's ammastod this is bounty right correct the bounty is a ship though see i know i know enough to know that i knew okay so i have I've heard of that.

Hi, so the meeting of the bounty. I got this idea, actually, from my boss. She mentioned it. She was like, I was looking this up this weekend and it was crazy. And I was like, cool. So I was going to do something else this week. But then I had, like, read a book.

And I was like, I don't know if I could read a whole book this week. I'm super busy. So I was able to listen to a book and watch a movie to learn a little bit about this, about this story. So I read a National Geographic article. I watched the 1962 movie Mutiny on the Bounty with Marlon and Brando. And then I also read the book by Captain Bly, who's the captain. He wrote a book after called The Mutiny on the Bounty, essentially. That's what it's called.

So I read his book. So before I get to that story, I stumbled upon a true crime story while researching it. So I'll tell this really fast. So like I said, I watched the 1962 film Mutiny on the Bounty. It's super long. There's an intermission and an overture. I love an overture. But like, it's crazy long.

Marlon Brando plays Fletcher Christian, one of the main characters. He has this, like, really weird English accent where it's like high, like, it's like a high voice and like a, no, no, no, no, no. Brando's voice is not made to be British. Yeah, no, it's real weird. So he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, uh, he's in it. It kind of plays like more of a, he's more of a rich guy as we'll learn. So in the movie, bigot or Tahiti, you're going to learn this in a little bit too. There's a woman who dances, like, for Marlon Brando in the movie.

They do like a lot of eye contact and you're like, I don't know, there's something going on. between those two. Like they're definitely, you know, whatever, they're looking each other weird. So it turns out that she, this is real in real life. This woman, she's a 19 year old actress from Tahiti. Like actress is loose. It was just like they went to Tahiti and like grabbed all the local people to be in this movie. And so he's 36. She's 19. He takes her back to L.A and they get married. Her name is Terita Terrapia. She's still alive. She's 81. So he brings this like young woman back from Tahiti to L.A. It was up and down because he's kind of a monster just like, you know, being a movie star doing all these things, like being mean. They have two kids. In total, he has 11 kids. And he died in 2004,

but some of his kids are young. They're like younger than us. They're like 29. Seriously? Which is bizarre. Yeah. So. I've been pretty good looking kids, though.

Oh, yeah. Everyone's real good looking. I mean, everyone's fucking gorgeous. Marlon Brando was gorgeous. I mean, he was. Yes, I know. I'm not saying like Island of Dr. Morel, Marlon Brando is gorgeous, but like we're on Brando and meeting the bounty, it's gorgeous.

He had a kid who was 49 years old and died in 2008. Okay, wait, I'm getting there. Stop. Am I ruining things? No, just wait. Don't read about his kids. Stop. So one of those 11 kids, the one that he has with Trita, he has two kids with her. One of them is a daughter named Cheyenne. So Cheyenne has it rough. Her dad is like ignores her and is mean to her. He ends up buying some property in Tahiti and like building a hotel and having the mom manage it and kind of ignoring his family.

So she's like, I hate my dad. Now it's the 90s. Cheyenne, Marlon Brando's daughter, has a boyfriend. His name is Dagdrollet, and he is abusive towards her. So he starts abusing Cheyenne. And then Marlon Brando has another son, Christian, from his first marriage, who's older than Cheyenne. Are you with me? So there's...

Yeah, like, it's just like, like, dude, it's just such a good-looking cluster of humans. look good looking oh my god so uh christian is older than cheyenne they're half siblings and cheyenne who whose mom is from tahiti from the movies her dad is marlin brando um has a boyfriend named dag and christian comes to marlin brando's house where dag and shian are having a fight and christian shoots him point blank in the head and kills him so marlin brando's son kills his half sister's um boyfriend who's being an abusive asshole guess who christian's lawyer is when he is on trial. The guy who,

oh God, the Charles Manson prosecutor. Robert Shapiro. No shit. Yeah. Robert Shapiro, I put a bunch of like exclamation points. So Christians plead guilty.

He serves, he gets 10 years. He serves five. Cheyenne didn't testify. She attempted suicide twice. She was also pregnant with Doug's child. And later, they thought that Christian was also involved in helping Robert Blake murder his wife,

but that's not like confirmed. And he's the one who died of pneumonia in 2008 and age 49. So Christian died. Cheyenne has her baby. Then she's diagnosed as schizophrenic. And in 1995, she's only 25 years old and she dies by suicide by shooting herself. Damn. Not wild.

It's like life is so, like, well, depression is the thing, right? I was going to say, like, if you're Marlon Brando's kid, like life is got to be fucking way cool than it is for me and you I know you just don't know I guess you know anyway that's crazy that's all that's my true crime story I stumbled upon Mullen Brando so effortlessly cool like I'm sure he was I'm sure he was a jerk off but like yeah it's like dude like the way he's rocking this suit like this picture of him and Cheyenne with like him holding her from behind with a lay the lay on was like effortless absolutely effortless so handsome it's crazy and the kids are gorgeous you know like

um yeah everyone's beautiful so yes okay so that's just a crazy story that happened because i was reading about me and the body of the movie so i watched that movie there is a mel gibson movie but i didn't watch it because i'm not sure if we're ready to separate the art from the artist on mel gibson do we still hate mal gibson i don't know do we i think i feel like yes because of the anti-semitism and his dad being literal nazi oh i you know what i don't i'm not up on on the dad Nazi thing, but I think that like Braveheart. No, I know, but that was like before we knew about the Nazi. Anyway, who cares?

I didn't watch that. It's available. Okay. We are in 1787. And so we're a little bit past the American Revolutionary War. Britain lost, but they still have a lot of other things going on. They're fighting with France. They're trying to manage this gigantic slave trade that they're doing.

And they're trying to colonize the rest of the world. So Britain is still very, very busy. It's November 1787, and a ship called the HMS bounty heads to Tahiti. It's called O Tahiti, and then later it changes to Tahiti. I don't know why. The captain is William Bly. The first lieutenant is Fletcher Christian, that's Marlon Brando. And in total, there's 46 dudes on the boat.

What's the first lieutenant? Is that like? He's like, so because the bounty was not the biggest ship, it was. It was one of the smallest ships that the British Navy had. It was called a cutter. So because it had, it was so small, and it was, I'll tell you what they were going to do in a second. It had no officers other than Bly. So the captain was the only person who was actually an officer of the Navy.

Everybody else was like just like kind of like regular sailors, including Fletcher Christian. It's a very small crew, no Royal Marines to protect the ship, which you usually have. So it's like a pretty small group of folks, those 46 guys. Okay. The Captain William Bly had traveled to all around the world a lot before. He went with someone named Captain James Cook. Cook had first sailed to Tahiti in 1769. He sailed all over the world.

He was eventually killed by Native Hawaiians, which I wrote I'm fine with because it sounds like he did a lot of like colonizing. But the goal for the HMS bounty was to get breadfruit to bring back to the West Indies to feed enslaved people, essentially. So in Tahiti and in that part of the world, like a little bit north of Australia, like that area, there's a fruit called breadfruit. It's been around for thousands of years. It's like a big, I'll post a picture of it, but it's like a big green fruit. And the inside you can like bake. It kind of tastes like bread if you bake it the right way. You can like boil it, cooking in all different kinds of ways depending on the time of year.

You can almost always harvest it. And it's like plentiful and has a lot of nutrients. So it's something that they thought they could, you know, bring it to the West Indies and just feed all those things. with it. I feed them just breadfruit, basically. Okay. Have you ever had, like, jackfruit that tastes like pulled pork? I don't think I've ever had jackfruit. It's, like, pretty crazy.

That's stuff they can do with it. Like, they do, like, a thing that, you know, I had much barbecue sauce. They taste like pulled pork. It tastes like pulled pork. It's really weird. But the thing is, like, similar to that. So the HMS, the bounty had a botanist on board. So there were, um, there were 46 men, 44 of them were, like, the crew. Two of them were botanists who were there to get the fruit.

They had taken the captain's quarter. and they had cut holes in the floor and added more windows and made it into a greenhouse to be able to put pots of breadfruit in once they got there. So Captain Bly slept in a much smaller room and everybody was pretty cramped because that was like a big space that they had allocated for the plants. Make sense? Yes. Hey, do you remember this is like, so I'm like having this memory arrived to me way after your

point about the colonizing, but you remember that guy who was like a missionary who went to that one North Seminole Island. I was thinking about him too. I fucking love that he was just butchered like a hog. Like I think it's awesome. I think it's like, dude, stop fucking taking people's religions. Stop taking people's cultures away from them. You should deserve to die. You should literally deserve to die. Like I, I met chow. His name was it was C-H-A-U, I think. I, I hate to say it, but I love that they were just like, fuck you and just like shot up with their fucking love it it's it's one of the one of the most heartwarming stories that should be a christmas tale don't fucking do that don't fucking take people's cultures from them there's a lot of that's

happening in this story in this time yeah absolutely absolutely yeah so okay so they left in november 1787 they arrive in october 1788 so it took a little over 10 months and it was 27000 miles to arrive in tahiti from england the ship was exhausting a few people died there was a ship surgeon and like surgeon i think should be in like 17 air quotes because it was just like maybe off the cook or whatever yeah and he he ended up killing a dude by accident because the dude had asthma so he was like bleeding him and he had a blood poisoning and died okay that obviously predictable yeah yeah the captain bligh was actually pretty mean he would order lashings or anyone who broke the rules so a lot of people like getting whipped and punished for things and the book

he's very casual about it because his book which i didn't even realize when i was reading it that it was like his when I first started reading it I was like oh this is like his actual account of this but he was like I'm maintaining order what am I supposed to do so it was like a pretty strict um it kind of makes sense that it's called mutiny on the bounty when you're beating the shadow of people like what am I supposed to do like not that probably yeah one thing that I wrote in uh that I added in my nose that was fun fun fun not fun they ate albatrosses like they would like touch them out of the sky eat them and like the big bird so it's a rough Yeah. It's a rough trip. It takes 10 months. They were supposed to go via K-Porn underneath South America, but it was too late in the year to do that. So they ended up going the other way down below Africa. They spent some time in Tasmania, which is called Adventure Bay for parents. Adventure Bay from Paw Patrol. I don't think they're in there, but that's funny. Also in Captain Bly's book, so much of it is like, we were at this latitude and longitude. And it was like this time. And I'm like, how the fuck do they know what latitude and longitude they were at? So I looked it up. And I

have no idea i like it's called a a chronometer timepiece it's like the thing that could do it's like if you i'll if you look it up it's like a beautiful like wooden brief case with like a all these like gears in it like it looks like a time like something you would use like a time machine you know like it's looks fun but they had like they had they were just

starting to figure this out and figure out where they were they were like discovering islands sort of obviously like they're not the first people there but then they'd be like oh I think if you're at this latitude and longitude, you should see this island that has like three hills so that like someone else can like maybe know where they are later, but seems really scary just to be out in the out in the ocean with just like guessing and like math and looking at the stars. If it's cloudy, you're like, I don't know where the fuck I am. You know, so. They were hardier back then. I guess. So now they're in Tahiti. They're about to go on to

shore. The captain Bligh has everyone checked for STDs and everyone is fine. In the movie, they're like nobody thought so you're just going to gloss over that nobody thought it was fucking weird that no hold on it was more so no they did not have STDs when they got off the boat allegedly in the movie they were like the women loved having sex with us like they loved it like whatever like they say that but in real life they were obviously like trading sexual favors for money and like beads and nails and things when it was all over 40% of the men contracted an STD the STD has had been introduced to Tahiti by the English and French explorers anyway, you know. Hold on.

So the women had the STDs that they gave the guys. Yeah. But they all originated from other Europeans who went there earlier. Yeah. Yeah. And we're like using them as like consorts and such. So somehow the bounty had a lot of stuff on it. They were always able to trade gifts.

You know, so they were like, you know, here's a mirror and a knife and all these things. And so he was making, Captain Blah was making friends with the chief. Tyna was the chief's name, T-Y-N-A-8. Captain Blyne never slept off the boat. He stayed on his boat while the men started to live on the island with the native people. But he entertained the chiefs and their wives almost every night. There were a couple petty thefts on the boat, but they were sometimes okay. Usually it was totally, it was fine.

The chief wanted to come back to England and meet King George. And Bly was like, not today, not this time, you know. Aim lower. Yeah. Meet his guards. Exactly. So they like made a little, you know, they made friends. And he was making friends with the leadership and basically being like, can we have this breadfruit?

This is why we're here. That's the thing that our king wants. And they were like, sure, you know, I should have a ton of it. But it's hard to cultivate. You can't just like take it with you. There's no seeds in it. It has to be cultivated directly from the root. So they had to like wait for the root to grow and for the plants to be hardy enough to be able to leave.

So this turned into like basically a fantasy life for all these men. Exactly. It sounds like a fantasy like. It's fucking gorgeous. It's like delicious fruit. everywhere there's like beautiful women that are everywhere and like yeah no they loved it yeah i can see where they'd mutinied yeah so fletcher christian he is the oh i don't know i mentioned this but he so he's like kind of like the the second in command um he comes from a wealthy family like they expected him to

be a lawyer but he decided he wanted to like go on adventures and such fletcher christian is 23 and captain bly is 33 during during this just to get some ideas like in the movie captain bly seems a lot older than 33 but basically they were like not that far apart he's anthony hopkins and yeah he's not that old that's crazy anthony hopkins was born like like 60 years old i know he was never 33 yeah yeah um so fletcher christian had a girlfriend her name was mawitua that's the girl that marlon brando flirts with in the movie and then ends up in real life marrying and in the movie the marlin brando is like fooling around with her and the captain is like you have to stop and the chief in the movie she's a daughter of that's chief

and the chief is like well my daughter is good enough for you so the captain literally goes I need you to go make love to that woman and Marlon Brando goes fine and they put him on a boat and Marlon Brando's like standing on this like little schooner going to land to like basically have sex

with his girl and they have him standing up at the front of the boat with his leg up and it plays the song like the dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun it's like really stupid but like funny like he's like I guess he'll have sex with her for the for the colony but that's not true they were just like hanging them for it essentially and i can't oh i can't hear you i see you i see you moving your mouth i was muted i was

going to say i guess if it's marlin brando and he's going to whip it out you got to make it dramatic right right exactly and i think in real life there's probably a lot of also a lot of sexual assaults so not great so it's been five months the breadfruit is finally working it's in the pots it's healthy they put it all i have a couple thousand plants they put them on the on the bounty and the going to go back to the West Indies and everything looks good. So April 1st, 1789, the bounty set sale again back to England via the West Indies. Obviously, like you said, the crew is not stoked. They're like, why can't we see here? Fuck this. Yeah. Like, I don't want to go live a fucking by 10 more months on this boat in like doing those hard labor and being whipped all the time and

like it's terrible. And so I've also lost. This is another argument for why capitalism is flawed is if you could nobody who could live that life would then choose to go back to a capitalist structure I gotta wake up at 8 a.m. to do this. Exactly. They lost a lot of their discipline

that's like a big part of it too. They were like, why would I go back to like following rules? Yeah. So and also the captain's mean and it feels worse because they're like now I have an idea of what a good life could be like.

So there's a lot of something happens like a lot of abuse by the captain. There's lashings. People aren't allowed to have water. In the movie, I'm sure they did this. they pulled someone under the ship you know how you like like tied him to a rope and like pulled him across the bottom of the ship which would like really hurt because you'd like get all scratched

and that guy ended up dying so people who are dying bligh like wasn't really aware of how mad the the sailors were he was just like everything's fine it's hard but that's life at the sea you know so he didn't really like he wasn't i don't know he wasn't worried about a mutiny in real life it's thought that captain bligh on april 27 1789 so it's been like about a month they've been back at sea, he accuses Christian of Fletcher Christian of stealing coconuts and punishes everybody. So everyone is in trouble for this like alleged infraction that may or may not even have happened and everyone's pissed. So now everyone, like most people are mad. So the next day, April 28th, 1789, a group of mutineers led by Christian armed themselves with muskets and swords

and they burst into the captain's cabin, said, I'm taking you prisoners. Christian said, I have been in hell for weeks past with you. So they take him and some of his guards and people who were loyal to the captain and they bring them to the ship. I don't know, it's the upstairs on the ship. Bly is surprised. They force him into a boat, but the boat's not big enough because actually 18 of the people who are left want to go with the captain or they're like not sure what to do.

So he hasn't getting a pretty big boat. And the captain and Bly and those 18. men they give them some food and they put them in in this boat and like let them go so this sounds even worse than being on the bounty in general obviously because they're in like a schooner they're on this for many weeks sometimes they see islands but mostly they're just eating a tiny amount of moldy bread this is where they get a teaspoon of rum every day to try to like warm up because it's freezing and it's raining and they're constantly bailing water out of it that's how they warm up is have a teaspoon of rum yeah and he says that like awful it's awful and like they're it's

because it's raining so much, they don't really run out of water, which is great. But they're also constantly soaking wet. And the rain is cold, but the seawater is pretty warm. So they take their clothes off and they rinse them in the seawater and then put them back on for warmth, which sounds awful. If you're just like soaking wet. If you, if you, okay, so I'm not asked, like, do you think the way I think? If it wasn't me, like, sure, listen, I'm probably going to die here anyways. I just want to get trash one more time.

Just give me all the fucking rum. Like, you know what I mean? Like, just like, go for broke. yeah and then just like have one good night and then you know that it's all gonna suck from their own out right i don't know but what a way to go just like starving to death on a boat you know i i i i fundamentally like at my core i really don't have a problem with eating a person like i just never thought me either like it's like no i would totally eat someone right yeah no so i don't think i would go out that way i don't really spend my time trying to be someone

that everybody liked someone would murder me and eat me i would tell jokes i don't know so me and you would have to team up me and you would have team up so like because because like I don't want to hurt people naturally so you'd have to distract them so I could grab them from behind and choke them I'll tell jokes okay great you're the funny one we'll be like hey hey want to go on a boat with us he'll be like no no I've listened to your podcast I know exactly what you had planned so it is captain by and 18 men also everyone is sick obviously because you're eating moldy bread and they're barely eating so everyone like just like constantly sick meanwhile the bounty goes back towards tahiti they find an island about 400 miles from

tahiti called tubawi and they stay there the natives are like we don't want you here they're it's a different group of people than we're on tahiti they're like who are you we don't want you here they don't they don't speak the same language um so they killed a bunch of them and like the the the sailors on the bounty killed a bunch of the natives they go back to tahiti to the people that they know to get supplies. And so they lie and say that like the captain died. They don't tell anybody about the mutiny because they don't want them to know that this happened. And they take 30 Tahitians back with them to this island. Eventually it's just too much. Like the natives who are there don't want them there. And there's a lot of killing and a lot of fighting. So they go back

to Tahiti. So the mutineers are a mess. They end up getting in another fight and dividing up. So 16 of them stay in Tahiti and the rest including Fletcher Christian Rinald Brando pretend to throw a party and invite 30 natives onto the bounty and essentially kidnap them and enslave them so they can build a settlement

on another island so they leave God. It's like almost entrenched innate second nature to find people and horribly use them. It's just the weirdness. And that group includes

women that they're using as like sex slaves essentially it's just a weird instinct it's like when i meet a person i don't immediately think how can i use and abuse you to my own benefit yeah maybe i should that's my no no that's my fault that's my problem don't do that um so now the original crew of the bounty is in three different groups and here's what happened to them so group one is with captain blind as men they are on that small boat they eventually uh reach safety in timor which is like like another island a little bit north. It's about 6,000 miles away from where they started. They get back to England and send a ship back to Tahiti to get the mutineers.

Also, as soon as they took over the bounty, they threw all of the breadplants out of it. So they were like, so they were just like, fuck you. It was just a former rebellion. Yeah. Yeah. So that's not even an option anymore. Bly, Captain Bly does get court marshals and acquitted of responsibility for the loss of ship eventually. There were other wars and such, and Captain Bly ended up being mutinied again

in the Rum Rebellion in New South Wales, Australia, which was not on a boat, but they took the they rebelled against him because he was being a terrible leader. And it's Australia's only military rebellion. And I can talk more about that later. I don't know much about it, but like you're a bad leader, Captain Bly. And he ended up going back to England. He died. Oh, he got put on a ship for two years on like a prison ship after that mutiny in australia and then he went back to england he died of cancer at home in london at the age of 63 so he yeah he like kept going even though he was you know whatever then the second group the mooteneers that were left on tahiti so the ship that bly sent back in 1791 to get the mutineers was called the pandora when they got back to tahiti

they were 14 left 14 of the mutineers were left alive on tahiti the pandora took them back it ended up pretty quickly after leaving Tahiti sinking it landed it got like stuck in coral it sunk they tried to save the prisoners but four of them drowned because they were still shackled in the bottom of the boat so now there's only 10 left so these 10 mutineers are left they go back to england four were acquitted six were sentenced to death by hanging and three ended up being pardoned and three of them ended up being hanged Thomas burkett john milward and thomas ellison they were all hanged 29 to 1724 for the mutiny and they're the only ones who were ever actually punished i mean probably good move like you can't have people just fucking it's never going to end well when so here's

one thing i've learned that you're going to screw with me again we're there's so many i think bad leadership is better than no leadership taylor's being in the face she's pondering the question no maybe it's like something somebody has to take charge right because absent any leadership you have chaos yeah and chaos is rarely productive

oh and that's what they ended up having the meet the meeting years because they couldn't agree in anything right and that's like that's what always happens like that's what you see happening when like there is you know like you like have a good idea but if no one's in charge like that's what happened to

um what was a thing with Occupy Occupy Wall Street yeah 99% movement yeah Yeah, they had no leadership. That's how all that ship ends up. It's like different factions, like, yeah. Yeah, totally.

So, yeah, absolutely. And that's what happens to the last group. So the third group is Christian and his group. They go to pick here an island, which is another island, where they want to have a permanent settlement with, you know, their slaves. I didn't finish the movie. It's long. I think I like, you can get on YouTube for free, but they do find an island.

Christian has a son and he has a pretty great name. So here's another name that you can give to your future children. Fletcher Christian has the son with a native Haitian woman. And the son's name is Thursday, October, which is great because neither of those are our names. That is the stupidest fucking name. I've never heard of a dumber name. No, I know. They should have.

Those aren't names. the doctor should take that child away when the worship was submitted like not okay it's pretty great it's pretty great so essentially the women were sex slaves and the men were being abused to like build this little colony on this island some women even tried to leave on a boat but they were unsuccessful and they had to come back one woman her name was teva rua she died by suicide because she was just like so tired of the abuse they did horrible things to these people that they had live on this island in september 1793 there was a uprising by the natives that they had on this little island with them, and they killed four of the eight millionaires that were left, including Pletcher Christian. So he dies in 1793. The British don't find them until 1808. And when they find them, there's only one man left on this island. Well, one Englishman left on this island.

There's a lot of like... Just one really fat guy and there's a bunch of skeletons. For real. His name was John Adams. so he was involved in a lot of the turmoil on the island there was a lot there was like murder one guy wanted to marry christian's like widow in parentheses like the in quotes and threatened to kill everyone so they killed him with a hatchet and his sleep so they're like fighting against each other like it's like it's wild and then one of the guys was like super upset about just like everything and he jumped off a cliff so everyone like is kind of losing their minds so guess we're john adams turns after this he becomes president of the united states no um he becomes very religious so he finds god and becomes very christian so he also had a bible so he tries to live life by the bible and you know starts to like be a big part of like bringing christianity to these islands and and does that even

though he's definitely been a shit hole a shit head this whole time and then he ended up you know what's interesting about that like you go to these places and you realize how incredibly amazing and rich that life is yeah and tell yourself i got to make this like my own my old spot i got to bring jesus into this like it's just like what i mentioned when i talked about that one guy the egyptian guy where it's like why the fuck would you go somewhere and then try and turn that place into the thing that you escaped like it makes no sense there's actually a quote at the end of this natural geographic article where a historian in 2017 said european european explorers effectively destroyed all the things that people had found exotic and attractive

about Tahitian culture yeah that's that fucking worst so um i actually feel weird and guilty that i like hawaii as much as i do because i know that learn about that huh we should talk about that sometime all the terrible things that happen in hawaii i don't know i don't really know them so i don't know them that well either it's just i can intuit that like amer it's an american state which means it was settled, which means there were missionaries, which means like all these people who obviously don't look like Europeans with like crosses on the back of their vehicles, like they lost chunks of who they are as humans

because of Christianity and mission and missionaries and stuff like that. And like I do love Hawaii, but like it's also I'm aware that it's kind of gross. Yeah, totally. like there was a thing where um no this is funny when one of the times when the rock was on saturday live they were like at a luau and he was like making fun of people and he was like oh cool you're on your honeymoon that's great do you wear crocs and restaurants in nebraska it's like it's so funny he's like what are you doing here yeah so john adams was allowed to stay

he died at on pitcairn island he's the he's buried there so he's the only mutineer with a grave like he's he's buried there the island is still a british oversea territory, because of course it is, it has a population of about 50 people, and a lot of them are like descendants of the mutineers. And a lot of, there are a fair amount of people in Tahiti that are descendants of, you know, these colonizers and these people that came out there. In 19, oh, I don't know if I mentioned that when they got to pick here on island at the beginning, they burned the bounty. So they burned the boat. So they wouldn't, you know, have it as like evidence of what they had done. But in 1957, National Geographic Explorer, Luis Martin,

found what remained to the bounty off the islands east coast so there's still like parts that are that are under there that's um yeah and yeah that's it so i feel like the red flags are don't be colonizers and don't treat your people like shit so that they overthrow you i um oh wait i don't find this guy what you're looking for this fucking absolute dip shit loser fucking dweeb, John Alan Chow, who was all of 26 years old from Scottsboro, Alabama. What an absolute dip shit. What I mean? So like, so here's something like, again, like, I have no problem with people in their

religious practices. I, I, I, growing up and having friends talk about how they're going to go down and do a mission, service in like central america like fuck you like who are you to take their fucking culture away from them like well because they don't fucking have you know

stock portfolios they're less than you like what are you trying to teach them like yeah it's so offensive and like you know what's funny it's like okay not funny it's actually kind of awful I um I go on those weird rat Braddhole's on YouTube and the most recent one that I went

down has to do with the narco wars and the carousal wars in Mexico and i've like had this thought multiple times driving like dude these people are fucking descendants of aztecs and myan warriors and they're cutting each other's heads off over like three dollars worth of like weed and it's just like and i try to like do the math in my head of like how do you tie that back to to missionaries and Catholics going over there, trying to convert them to Christian. Like, it's all there. I know it's there.

I need to think about it more, but like it is so fucked up that people do that and they think it's a good thing. There's just like no, like this, there's no redeeming quality to this mission. You know, like they were going to Tahiti to like take advantage of the women, take advantage of the culture to steal their food

so that they could bring it to the West Indies to be able to really cheaply feed their slaves like it's like all bad it's all bad yeah it's all bad there's nothing redeeming about it I do want to say that Anthony Hopkins does look kind of young in this oh he's 47 he just look he means the youngest I've ever seen him in this poster for the bounty you remember when he played um the wolf no wait that was Jack Nicholson not mind jack Nicholson is doing terrible he like lives alone and is really really old but Anthony Hopkins has his his Instagram is like him playing piano it's quite lovely god what it even the locals told this fucking moron they said they wouldn't take him they

wouldn't take him they wouldn't take him they like dropped him off it was like this is close to him in this island he was like I can do it was like why what is and I remember I think his dad one time was like we shouldn't blame him blah bye you should 100% blame him he's a hundred percent blame him he's a fucking idea and the people who enabled him all of his fucking youth pastors and church leaders so they think you can all fucking bathe in his blood because they're fucking responsible for it too. Piece of shit.

Yeah, that story is terrible and I hope those people on the island are doing fine. Yeah, no kidding. I think I read something else about them. I don't know, this is true. This is just a random, possibly untrue story corner that during like tsunami time when there was like a big tsunami in like that area of like India and Japan or something,

people on that island were okay. They survived because they had the tribal knowledge literally to know that when the ocean gets pulled back like that they need to run to the hills you know like without any science or anything you know whatever I'm sure they have something you know what I mean super cool don't go there so um so his dad this guy's dad blamed his death his kid's death on the missionary community yeah fair 100% well my really good friends I hate fucking say this I wouldn't say her name but like when we were growing up we went to high school together and she was like super super impression and was like always going on these missions and

I was just I remember as a kid being like oh that's so cool you get to travel and it's like fun you get to help people and now as an adult I'm like that was kind of fucked up like that was kind of fucked up I had someone at someone also not say who it was like but they were like I got to go to South America and help people and I'm like no you didn't that wasn't helping people are you're out of your mind like that's absolutely not like no you went there to like knock on doors and try to get them to be Mormon. It's not the same thing. It's a different thing.

Yeah. So. Taylor, I think we shine later than the evening. I think I think at 10 a.m. Like, I'm kind of barely half awake. And at 8 a.m.,

you're 100% not awake. And I think that, I think we shine, man. I think like later in the evening is maybe. So Taylor moved our time. But she didn't actually know. What Taylor didn't know when she moved our time was that I was

desperately wishing that she was, would because i landed at like 11 p.m. last night from denver got to my house at like midnight and then also had done almost no research for this episode so the fact that she pushed it is uh it was hugely beneficial for all next week is going to be wild but let's talk about it because i might i can maybe do it from the hotel wait where you going l a wait why I have to go to working from LA the 24th or the 27th so I have to go on Saturday because I also have to work

on Sunday which is like a big project and then but I have two baseball games at the same time Saturday morning the end of noon I mean there's a chance we could do it in person on Thursday yeah but I can't come until later because we have piano until 530

being a parent is hard you should tell we should end with that no like have one Juan's a driver. We have dinner. Well, fuck it. We'll order pizza at the Casita and then we can just have some bourbon and pizza and record.

All right. We'll talk about it. I haven't, I don't know what I'm doing. Okay, great. Thank you for everyone who, I just don't stop. I have to say thank you. Thank you everyone. And also I figured out how to review on Spotify because my cousin Lindsay asked me how to do

that and I was like, I don't know. So I've honored out it's on the app only. You can't leave words, but you can do the five stars. 15 people already have. so thank you so much. Please continue to tell your friends. We have hopefully some marketing plans coming soon that we'll talk about next week

and we'll get out to more people. But everybody, thank you for your reviews. Find us anywhere you listen to podcasts, also on YouTube as well. And I got us to Twitter just for fun. Awesome. Same thing. Doom to Fail Pod. We're on Twitter as well.

Now we're on everything. When we're famous, we will not forget you, the little people who helped get us here. We'll remember you. our first thousand followers. Yay. Because right now there's like seven of you. But I do think, but we are going up and I'm very excited and happy to do this.

So great. No, we're way, we're way past that. We're like, we're like, we have like over 1,300, 1,300 downloads. No, I know, but like, doesn't mean. But this, the last one. You need to express positivity. I did. I just made something up, but then I felt bad about it.

So I had said something else. no we have in the last seven days we have 76 unique listeners which is great hello seven six of you thank you so thank you all um and yeah we'll be joining you again next week either from palm springs remotely in l.A. in austin or some other way also shout out to um henry our friend who's definitely listening because we have one down yeah we have one download in portugal every week. So that could actually be the other friend I mentioned who did the mission trip. Shit, that means

that she might hear this. There's one person in Portugal listening to us. So we know two people there. It could be. It's probably this friend. It's playing on Henry. Henry's not. I don't know. I thought I don't know anybody else in Portugal. Henry listens like, Henry listens like

mind hack stuff. Like he tries to like improve himself as a human. He's lame. Two people in Jacksonville. four people in Las Vegas, one person in Olympia, Washington. No way. Seriously? Yeah, one person in Houston, one person in Rockport, Texas.

Oh, that's the new GFs. That's the new GFs mom. One person in Potoskey, Michigan. That's your new girlfriend's mom. Yeah. She told her mom about my podcast. That's sweet. two people in Grand Rapids.

What up, Kelly, and I was my friend from work. Anyway, very exciting. You should cut us all out. Bye. It's like half this podcast, I'm going to have to cut out. Cut it out. We've been here for days. All right, I'm going to stop recording.

Thanks, everyone. Thank you.