Doomed to Fail - Ep 173: Revenge of the Monarch - Jamal Khashoggi

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Today, Farz tells the story of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who dared to talk about the ruler of Saudi Arabia. After years in exile, Jamal decided to go to Turkey to get married, which sounds great, except he had an ex-wife in Saudi Arabia and a currently very much still married wife in the US. When he needed to get proof from the Embassy that he wasn't married (to the first one, under Islam) he was killed. Learn more about this tragic story, & the history of Saudi Arabia with us!  Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In a matter of the people of the state of California versus Orenthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask for you. We are back. It is someday in the future. How are you doing, future, Taylor? Pretty good.

Good. Yeah. Sellers having a good day. It's good news. Mm-hmm. Why don't, I'm going to remember to ask you to introduce us. So why don't you go ahead and introduce it? We are.

Hello. Welcome to doomed to fail. We have the podcast that brings you history as most notorious disasters and greatest failures twice a week. And I'm Taylor, joined by Fars. For the newer listeners, I was the one who actually did our intro. And Taylor fired me unceremoniously from doing the intros. You were voted off by me and my husband who listens to all the episodes. Which feels unfair.

but I will say Taylor's been doing a better job So maybe it was right You're welcome to pick it up whenever you want If you want to try something new But I think it's important that we introduce ourselves I know, I know My problem is I just don't remember I get in the weeds

And I get first of all I get excited Because we're talking Because like you know It's good to just talk and shoot the shed And then I forget why we're here Doing what we're doing It's why you're the boss Yeah, that's why I do the TikToks

That's why you do the tech talks. That's why you get the big bucks. So I think I'm doing my episode today. And it's going to probably go over everybody's or most people's heads. But it like honestly popped up because of our text exchange over the weekend. Because it set me down like a rabbit hole of sorts. You're probably not going to connect the dots on this one. I want to be discussing the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi.

Do you know that? guy? No. Okay. This is all tied to Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia, however you want to say it. So we're going to have a conversation about that as well. So first things first, I'm Middle Eastern. I get to talk shit about Middle Eastern culture. Like that's the rule. Like if it's your ethnicity or your culture or your religion, you can talk shit about it. So like whatever I say, don't write to us because I'm not going to read it. And I can say what I want. Cool. Okay. Thank you, Tyler. Yep.

So I'm going to go into a little bit about Saudi Arabia in general, along with, like, how it works, how it runs. And then I'm going to talk about this poor, poor bastard, Jamal Khashoggi, what happened to him, why it happened to him, and what happened or didn't happen to the people that did what they did to him. So we're going to start off with discussing Saudi Arabia, which came into existence. since in 1727 when a guy named Muhammad Ibs Saud, who ruled over a geographic territory that was essentially what present-day Riyadh is, joined forces with other leaders and consolidated the regions that are currently known as Saudi Arabia. The name Saudi Arabia breaks down into House of Saad. That's what it actually is in Arabic.

Sad being the name of the family. Sorry, you said something to him? No, so that makes sense. So in Saudi Arabia, the Constitution, as we would kind of understand and interpret it, is basically the Koran. And the rule of law is Sharia law. So there's no legislation. There's no judicial branch. There's nothing.

That is just the South family. That's it. That's the ruling everything. That's the decision-making tree right there. Right now? Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah.

The succession plan for who becomes king, it's very game of throny in a sense that it is typically the eldest or the most esteemed male heir that ascends to the throne and becomes the king. Kind of the reason why I'm having this whole precursor of like what Saudi Arabia is about is to kind of lay the groundwork or like create like an understanding of like the type of culture that it is because it is rough. It is a real. So here's a little bit of background on women's rights in Saudi Arabia. 2017 is when they started allowing them

to attend sporting events which is also the year they were allowed to drive for the first time 2018 was when it was when it became formally legal sorry 2018 was when it became illegal to pay a woman less for the same job

a man does oh well it's not illegal here I mean that's actually not 100% true which I'll share like a female Nobel laureate who said the exact opposite of that but like

so for economics covered this because it was like a huge thing and nobody paid attention to it but she literally did a whole economics study on this um so 2019 in Saudi Arabia is when marrying a female under the age of 18 was finally banned and 2021 is when

women were legally allowed to live alone without a male guardian if they were widowed divorce or otherwise single so that's the kind of like regime we're talking about here so human rights have never been super high up on the king or the acting king's priority list so let's get into a little bit about who these folks actually are so first things first is the king which is kind of irrelevant like this guy's not super important in this in this story his name is king salman bin al-sad and he came into power in 2015 and he came to power as kind of a reformer

within the constraints of Islam so he did some good things but he also came to power when he was 80 years old and he pretty much yeah he pretty much almost instantly ordained his son as the de facto leader of the kingdom the crown prince is what his name what his title is and his name is mohammed bin salman or he goes by mbs that's what i'm going to refer to him from here on out so there wasn't an official transition of power here there were just like actions that were taking place in saudi arabia that indicated to the international community that mbs was basically the acting king. One of the main things that happened was in 2017, two years after his father ascended

to the throne, MBS asserted his control over the royal family, which is a huge and extremely wealthy family. And basically, like, these folks kind of just fly around and act like they have authority they don't really have. And that was really, really annoying to MBS, who's a very strong, I guess, I don't know, I'm a strong leader in the sense like he doesn't like that. shit is what I'm getting at the royal family is comprised of 15,000 people and they hold an accumulated wealth of roughly around 1.4 to 4 to 2 trillion dollars so super rich yeah given their

resources and their names some of these people claim they can speak on behalf of the government or that they have special privileges or they would accept bribes and like I said mbs just hated this stuff so that's why in 2017 um he detained about 400 members of the royal family in a rich Carlton and Riyadh had their private jets and their passports seized and subjected them to interrogations, torture, and a whole host of other horrible things. Well, and think about it, these are billionaires and there's a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So the reason that I'm bringing this, I was like, this is a message saying, listen, being a billionaire, even being my own family, doesn't preclude you from my control in Dominion. That's kind of the message that's being sent here. What was he mad about them for? They were like trying to say they were powerful and he was like, you're not? Yeah, they're just going around, like, making deals and asserting like their relationship to the royal family as a way to kind of self-aggrandize themselves. But also part of this stuff is always for the optics, right?

It's always for like, like, you know when when Jack Ma like just went missing in China for like two years? years like nobody heard from him like it was just a sign saying we can do this like you know like we have this power and control like don't don't let that fool you like don't you let your billions or your title or whatever for you and I think that we don't have this control so that was a huge part of it so then there were the people a part of this purge that's going to be ongoing that ended up just going missing entirely and that's where we get into our main character for the story here, Jamal Khashoggi. So we mostly now think of Khashoggi as a journalist, an investigative reporter,

kind of a truth seeker, which all happens to also be true, but he also came from the real family and from wealth. So here's where our stories kind of collide, not this week's, but before. For example, his first cousin was Dodi Al-Faed. Oh, wow. Yeah. I know that is. Yeah, the guy who died with Princess Diana in Paris.

his he didn't die dody did no he didn't didn't didn't he no I think he's still alive

dody yeah okay are you googling yeah well wait for the fact check in real time maybe he did die

oh no he did you're right I thought he didn't die I think everybody but the security guard in the pastures he died in that accident he was only 42 yeah

It looks terrible Jeez Anyways Moving past Princess Diana's death During the Jamal Khashoggi's story Again Going back to his roots

His grandfather Khashoggi's grandfather Was a personal doctor to the king Several kings before this story Kind of takes place His uncle was a billionaire International Arms Steeler And so he was heavily connected

To money and the royal family But again his main interest was Journalism he held some traditional, like, Muslim views in his youth before coming to the U.S. for his education, which kind of westernized his perspective on things. His history is a little bit complicated because he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood and he was really close to Osama bin Laden, also a member of the royal family, the Saudi royal family.

And so kind of, there's a lot going on here. And also, it's all moments in time, right? So back in the day, bin Laden wasn't seen as like the evil guy that he is now because he was fighting for Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. And so the U.S. was like arming them. I think there's a picture of Donald Rumsfeld shaking his hand. I'm sure. For those deals. I'm not surprised.

2003 is when Khashoggi started being more outspoken about his like, I would say liberalism in this context in a way that was seen as an affront to the government of Saudi Arabia and an affront. to the government by virtue of how laws are interpreted as an affront to the religion as well. So, like, again, it's Sharia law. So if you're hostile towards the government, then you're hostile towards the religion. That's how it's kind of interpreted. And so Khashoggi became a thorn in MBS's side because of how vocal of a critic of his he was. He wrote for the Washington Post extensively about his 2017 crackdown on the royal family. He also was outspoken about the Saudi-led war.

war in Yemen and the humanitarian crisis that that caused. He spoke openly about the lack of free press and about human rights abuses in the country itself. And the part that really seemed to irk MBS was that his reputation was that of a serious journalist whose opinions should be taken seriously in the West. You know, it's one thing of some crazy guy on Twitter saying something, but it's another thing if it's like, you know, like nobody's going to take that seriously, but if it's being published in the Washington Post, then it seems legit.

I hadn't mentioned this before, but he worked for a ton of newspapers in the past that had a lot more of a local, regional or like niche audience. So him writing for The Post was considered a huge deal and a big reason why MBS was progressively getting more and more pissed off about this guy. So in 2018, he was working, Khashoggi was working on consolidating the various journalistic efforts that criticized the Saudi government in an effort to promote more free press and free experience. Russian. One of his collaborators is this guy named Omar Abdulaziz who ran a blog critical of the government. He was living in exile in Canada at the time, having sought

asylum in 2014. And there he was running his blog. He had a YouTube channel. All this was meant to be a way to kind of document the human rights abuses within Saudi Arabia. And then we get to the weirdest part of this story. Do you remember

the nudes of Jeff Bezos that leaked? You know, no. thank God. Okay, this happened. This really did happen. And this is all connected to what we're talking about here, I promise. Gross. So Bezos at the time, in addition to being the CEO of Amazon, was also the owner of the Washington Post, who was Koshoge's employer. Is then he still the owner of the Washington Post? He is. He is. Yeah. In April of 2018, Bezos met with MBS and they exchanged WhatsApp numbers and they would have some friendly back and Sports. In May of that year, MBS sent Bezos a video file.

Don't know what the file was, but whatever it was, it contained code that gave MBS and the government of Saudi Arabia complete control and access to everything on Bezos's phone. Wow. Ew. Which is how they found evidence that he was having an affair and how the nudes ended up getting leaked. And this was all because Washington Post was publishing Khashoggi's content that was critical of MBS on the on the site on the paper wow what ended up happening in like the actual transaction here the chain of custody over these pictures went from Saudi Arabia to the national inquirer to get published there to and then and then Bezos came out and was like I'm not paying

I'm not I'm just going to address this fully like he actually handled it like pretty pretty well yeah good for him don't yeah don't get into revenge porn that's yeah so this story is crazy and This is also why being so incredibly rich is so incredibly helpful in life. We only know all this stuff about Khashoggi because Jeff Bezos was rich enough to hire a forensic investigations team to figure out what happened to his phone and how this stuff got leaked and hacked. So through that effort, it was learned that that guy I just mentioned, Omar Abdulaziz's phone was also part of the same spyware attack that Bezos was. And Omar and Khashoggi were super close friends.

All their back and forth chatter was being read by MBS and the Saudi government. Wow. They told each other everything, and they were super direct about how they felt about MBS and the way that things were running within the country, which is fuel the fire. Yeah. In 2015, Kishogi had a house in McLean, Virginia, where he was a resident. Even as far back as 2015, so when his dad first went ascended to the throne, even back then MBS was talking about killing him at home

and this was known this was a plot that was intercepted by the NSA so it never really came to fruition but like think of like he made it in America in America yeah but that's what I'm saying like think how crazy that is a foreign country coming to the U.S., coming to your hometown

to your house to kill it like it's crazy like it's like it's like scary like people do shit like this like um so anyways that never happened and up till

around 2017, various members of the royal family would plea with Khashoggi to come back to Saudi Arabia and take on some task advising the royal family on their media strategy. He didn't do that. He wants to kill you. Yeah, he didn't think he wasn't an idiot. He knew exactly what he was going on. He's literally covering him, killing his own family.

Right. Like, come here, there's really good cheese. You know, like, no. Yeah. Um, one thing to say about him, he was a bit of a philanderer. Um, he got married once to a Saudi woman, um, in Saudi Arabia, who he then would divorce legally to marry

an Egyptian woman in the U.S. And while he was married to that woman, he was also engaged with a Turkish woman in Turkey named Hatis Chenghis. I hope I said that right. I'm sure you didn't. Probably not. The dates are rough to kind of ask you in here.

The best I can shoot for is I think he got engaged four months after he married that woman in the U.S. Exhausting. It's so exhausting. I don't know how these people have this energy. Yeah. Anyways. So, in September of 2018, he was in Turkey and he had to provide paperwork that only the government of Saudi Arabia could provide, which stated that he was not legally married under the eyes of Islam anymore so that he could marry this Turkish woman.

That was the entire point. So he went to the Saudi embassy in Turkey on September 28, 2018 to request the paperwork showing that he was no longer married to that first woman. He was very well aware of the danger he could possibly be into the. extent that he actually asked his intelligence friends in the U.S. if they knew any plots against them, which they did not know. And he also told his fiancé to contact authorities if he doesn't return from the embassy. You know, you don't have to get married. Yeah, I know.

It's like, yeah. What's you on your third marriage? Like, it's just be roommates. Like, it's fine. A thousand percent. I feel we talked about before. Like, your third marriage, I'm not buying you anything. But like.

Will you get me something for my second? Yes. But your third, absolutely. not. Thank you. Yeah. If I get married three times, Taylor, you got to have an intervention. Okay. Well, especially if you risk your life to get the paperwork, I'd be like, this is not worth it. What are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. I did look at the woman because I was like, she must have been like an absolute stunner. And I was like, she was not a stunner. She did not have to die. He probably loved her, I guess. She probably loved her. I know. She was beautiful in his eyes. But he shouldn't have, but he

have well he's also married to someone else I know it's so tiring it's like dude you flew from Virginia you left your wife to go to Turkey to go to the Saudi Arabia like you're making some good some good decisions like I like that we're like he's obviously a flawed character you know he's like criticizing the government but then doing this like stupid shit in his personal life

I know it's a story of mankind like everybody's good and everybody's equal at the same time so in this case on the September visit to the embassy he does actually come back out. The officials there told him they need a few days to get the paperwork together and then he can come back later on to collect

it. So around 1 p.m. on October 2nd, so a few days after the... But the camera work is saying he's not married under the eyes of Islam, but he's married under the U.S. government, but that doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, no, that doesn't matter. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, that's how it is. Yeah, there's a lot of stories here.

I have family who've gone through divorces and remarries and, like, Islam has some very, very unique laws. Like, there, there's a law in Islam that if you can't remarry the same person after a certain number of times, I forgot what it was. It's like, I think it's like, afterly the third or fourth time, you can't remarry them. And I was like, who was the person? Who was the couple that forced? They're like, oh my God, you guys cannot keep doing this.

We're not buying you anywhere blunders. This is what I said. I'm not going to you at fifth wedding. No. I like that. That's agree to agree on that one. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah. Around 1 p.m. October 2nd, Khashoggi goes back to the embassy to collect his paperwork. He's with his fiancé who he tells to wait outside while he goes in. And by 3.30 p.m., so two and a half hours later, the embassy officially closed. There was no signs of him. The fiancé waited another 30 minutes before going to the authorities. But at that point, for all intents' purposes, he basically disappeared. So let's figure out what happened to him.

So hours before he arrived at the embassy, a three-person team departed Saudi Arabia for Istanbul. These three were a guy named Mahar Mutreb, who led the group and was a high-ranking intelligence officer, Dr. Salah Tuba, who is a forensics doctor in usefulness operation for a very grotesque reason. I'll get to in a little bit. There was Thar Ghulib al-Harbi, who was a security guy for MBS. These are all folks who were really close to MBS essentially. So in addition to these three, there was another 12 that were operating as support and supporting roles for the mission remotely. The three members of the hit team entered the embassy hours before Koshoggi did. We don't know actually, in fact, for sure, what happened to him.

A multinational investigation was launched between the U.S. Turkey and Saudi Arabia, which I'm saying Saudi Arabia kind of like ingest, like nobody. They were not really doing anything. They didn't help. They didn't help. Yeah. The problem here is that everybody knows who did it. And everybody in the equation has direct financial, economic, or security reasons why they don't want to make a big stink about what they know happened to this guy. But what we do know, we obtained from a Turkish newspaper who somehow got recordings, because everything's recorded in an embassy, apparently.

They got recordings of. his last moment. So we have some sense of what happened. So 12 minutes before Koshoggi is to arrive, you can hear two members of the team saying, quote, is it possible to put the body in the bag? And then the forensic doctor says, quote, no, too heavy, very tall too. Actually, I've always worked on cadavers. I know how to cut very well. I've never worked on a warm body, though, but I'll also manage that easily. I normally put on my earphones and listen to music when I cut cadavers. And the meantime i sip on my coffee and smoke after i dismember it you will wrap the parts of the plastic bags put them in a suitcase and take them out of the building that's what he said so there's so much

to say that is like when the villain stops in a movie and tells you exactly what they've been planning like that's just like that's just really funny that he's like let me tell you exactly what i'm going to do to this body and also it's going to be a little bit gross because it's going to be warm and also i'm going to smoke a cigarette like that's just like why are you talking about this Just say, I'll do it. I will do the thing. It's the last thing you tell Bonn before he escapes. Exactly.

And also, like, they're from, they're with the government. Like, shouldn't they know that they're being recorded? It's their embassy. Yeah. Anyways, minutes later, you can hear one of them say, quote, the animal to be sacrificed has arrived. And another member says that he is here. So, apparently from here, what we know is that he entered the embassy.

Someone he knows greeted him because the interaction was very cordial. that changes when he has told he has to go to an office on the second floor to collect that paperwork. He is apparently pulled by the arm and is heard saying, let me go. What do you think you're doing? He enters the room where the hit squad is and is told to sit down and that he has to be taken back to Riyadh under orders of Interpol. Interpol is demanding that he returns and they're there to take him. there is a back and forth for about 10 minutes and like when you read the transcript of this you can tell like he knows exactly it had to have been so scary you can tell he knows exactly what's going on when he sees these guys at one point he asked quote there's a towel there's a towel here will you have will you have me drugged and he is told that he will be put to sleep his last words were quote do not keep my mouth closed i have asthma do not do not do it it you will suffocate me which was literally the entire point yeah um it is presumed that that happened

that he was suffocated to death um about 20 minutes after this happens you can hear a saw go to work and they start dismembering him inside the embassy with that one towel um they probably had other towels oh my god that is ridiculous is that grotesque it's grotesque it's grotesque it's And I just, that's so, is this, I don't know, I don't know any other word, but ridiculous that they have it on tape like that, you know. Yeah. Like, you've heard it. That's crazy. Yeah.

So I didn't, I didn't listen to. Not heard it, but you were the, you read the transcript. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, they dismember him. They put him into, they put parts of him in plastic bags. They put the plastic bags and briefcases and they leave the building. All this is on camera too. Like, there's cameras all around embassies.

Like, the execution isn't, but like you can see these guys walking out with. like really heavy big bags out of the embassy so Saudi Arabia claimed to know absolutely nothing MBS said he would take responsibility for it but only because it happened under his watch but not because he ordered

it apparently and everybody's conclusion is yeah it was these guys the Saudi did it like they did it like there's no there's no question why it happened and who ordered it the response by the Saudi government was

to sentence five members of the death team or the team to death and three others to about 24 years in prison but in a very, very odd coincidence about a year after all this nobody was

in prison anymore or had been executed because given Islamic law the eldest son of the victim can forgive and pardon the perpetrators which Khashoggi's eldest son did And during this time, yeah, oh, he also had kids.

Yeah, he had four kids. But who were, so who were the people who did it? It was these guys. No, I know, but like, who were they? So these were all people tied to the intelligence agencies within the Saudi Arabian government. And one of them was like a personal guard of MBS. Right, it's like very clearly that he did it. Yeah.

Yeah. So here's the thing that's interesting. thing about the forgiveness part and the fact that all the crimes were pardoned was when the eldest son issued this

you know forgiveness to the folks everybody was released and nobody was punished it was at a time when his passports were revoked and he was banned

from leaving the country and he right after doing this he posed for an entirely voluntary picture with MBS as well so that's that's how that ended

the outcome of that situation Yeah, I feel like, yeah, you'd be like, uh-huh, that's fine. Yeah, that seems to be a big part of like how he controls people. Because they also have like a ton of like, like, again, going back to like Islamic law, like, beheadings are not uncommon. And they're always in Saudi Arabia, at least they're done with swords. So it's not like a pretty picture. And the whole, I'm going to take away your passport. I'm going to ground you.

I'm going to do whatever. like it's just it's just why ever stand up why ever do anything to draw that ire you know oh totally so so nbs is still in charge um and well he's he's he's currently the crown prince but he's the de facto king and there's been no consequences for any of this like literally nothing like he nobody got punished uh yeah they just got away with it i mean totally free and clear yeah what i was reading by the royal family it's unbelievable how rich these guys like it's like it is they can do whatever they want whenever they want however they want one of the guys was like one of the uh he was the first person to order an airbus a 380

as a private jet and he already had a 747 as a private jet like it's that this like who meets that that's over a billion dollars and planes like oh my god so nuts um oh and taylor the reason i went down the rabbit hole with leonard da vinci was because the um salvador mondi the painting of uh jesus like in his younger years holding the orb yeah that's a leonard da vinci painting it was auctioned in like 2016 or 17 or something for 450 million dollars and this guy is the one that bought it he bought it for his private yacht he literally has it's on a boat it's on a boat no is that crazy get it on land immediately dude no it makes me very nervous yeah now that i know it's out of boat

um oh my god that's ridiculous but that's how you that's how you roll when you got that the trillioner cash. Wow. Wow. So that's my story. Who knows what's going to happen in the future, but man, it is rough going in Saudi Arabia. So there's a thing, again, I'm going to reference for economics. I listen to that quite a bit. There's a thing called sports washing, which is, you heard of this term? No. I feel like it reminds me of how like the World Cup, all those people died,

building that stadium and guitar is that right no uh no it's not it doesn't mean that what it what it is referring to is sports are seen as like a unifying thing and it's like as a goodwill ambassadorship thing and Saudi Arabia has this like horrible horrible history like human rights and all that stuff and one thing that they're doing is what sports watching is referring to is they're now uh they started live their own golf pro golf tournament they are oh yeah yeah They're buying huge chunks of F1 racing, which is hugely popular. They're investing in European football, soccer. And it's all seen as a way of sports washing.

And like Taylor, like, again, you know this. And I mean, very few people do. But they are also directly tied into the political technology that America's used to elect people. and it's like yeah like it's not good yeah the sports watching watching i mean i feel like that you know like i know as a human being that the nfl has done a lot of shitty things you know like i know that in 2000 i think it was just 2018 they went to court to say that they for all of the people who have brain injuries after being in the nfl they should compensate the black players less because black people are not as smart as white people like that can be true

it's true 2018 they said that yes so like I know that but I still fucking want to watch a Super Bowl you know

and like I remember like John Oliver talking about the World Cup he's like I fucking love the World Cup I know there's so many problems what am I supposed to do you know

the Olympics we know all these things the NFL employed taxes of racial baseline cognitive brain evaluations systematically provide black players

to lower CTE settlement payments than their white counterparts Wow I know That is That is crazy

That is so awful It's like you don't You don't even know what to do Yeah That almost I literally thought like They can't be real I know

Oh my God Okay Well in 2021 They reverse course But still that's a horrible Perspective to have It is yeah Any year, especially

So recently, you know, yeah. No, totally, that, I mean, that is dangerous and scary. But yeah, because people want to attend sporting events and do these things. And then, like, what else is happening, you know? Yeah, yeah. I get it. So. I get it.

That is our story for today. Anything that you want to read out, Taylor? My husband, Juan, gave us shit for making fun of people who like Shakespeare and saying we didn't believe them. or at least I said that very loudly. I agree with Taylor. I disagree with you one. And then I watched a little bit of Hamlet and I posted on our Instagram just Polonius saying 2-9 and on Self Beach, I didn't finish it, but Mel Gibson is like supposed to be young.

I don't know how old Hamlet supposed to be, but they just like give him bangs to like give him a youthful appearance and it's funny. He looks ridiculous. Oh my God, he looks so ridiculous. You know what I mean? He looks like Andy from the office. Yes. You know how like on shows?

they're like, oh, this is like the 20-year younger version of this person, but they're given like a wig with longer hair. And you're like, no, that is not a 20-year-old younger version of that person. I think that's what they were doing with it. It was funny. Yeah, I mean, I was like, I know, well, then I was yelling towards my husband about it. I was like, oh, yeah, right? You read all of Shakespeare.

Give me a break. Like, he hasn't said that, but that was like my response to. Hey, I'm on your side on this one. Like, I don't believe you that you like read it and understood it. you're like oh um apologies to all the shakespearean people scholars yeah all the scholars are listened to our podcast yeah sorry you guys sorry for that and all of the seventh graders who are currently going through the emotional trauma of reading romeo and juliet hey i think that our listeners might be you know on the higher end of like

the intelligence curve maybe not like scholars of shakespeare but probably up there yeah maybe they've read a couple if you're smart write to us at dumiphylpod of jemol.com we'll write back probably

yeah we'll definitely right back um cool we can go ahead and cut it off there Taylor and again

follow some of the social at doom to feld pod and email is dumafod at gmol.com anything else that is it thank you everyone

we appreciate you yep thanks all we'll go ahead and cut it off I don't know.